PodSearch

Upgrade

143: The WWDC Keynote Draft 2017

 

00:00:00   (beep)

00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:03   - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 143.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by Encapsula,

00:00:16   Mac Weldon, and Flow.

00:00:18   My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Big day, Jason Snell.

00:00:22   - Huge day, Myke. - Huge day.

00:00:25   - Could not be bigger.

00:00:26   - One of the most important episodes of the year,

00:00:28   because today is the second annual upgrade WWDC draft.

00:00:33   We're on today's show, me and Jason will be making our picks,

00:00:38   our prediction picks for what is gonna happen next week

00:00:41   on stage. - Oh yeah.

00:00:43   - WWDC.

00:00:44   So Jason, today our hashtag Snell Talk question

00:00:47   actually came from me in honor of the draft.

00:00:51   - Cheating, okay.

00:00:52   - Jason, I was hoping somebody would ask this question

00:00:54   but nobody did so I'm asking it myself.

00:00:56   Jason, what is your favorite thing to draft?

00:00:59   - Probably the TV character draft we did on The Incomparable,

00:01:04   where we were supposed to draft characters

00:01:07   from any television show or anything on television ever

00:01:10   and create an ensemble,

00:01:12   which we then put into a TV show that we devised.

00:01:16   Because of course, the greatest single draft pick

00:01:20   in the history of drafting things was on that episode,

00:01:23   which was Steve Lutz picking Skeletor.

00:01:25   So that was an invariable and draw in more broadly stupid things

00:01:29   That's my favorite. Of course the unspoken rule of that question was not to say

00:01:34   WWDC pics because now yeah, Jason would have said that if that was available to him because that is what we're doing today

00:01:41   I want to run through there are rules. So we've been doing these drafts for a year

00:01:47   It started last year at WWDC 2016

00:01:50   Where we fought for fun that we would just give this a give it a draw rather than a predictions episode

00:01:55   Like you'll be hearing many of your favorite shows this year where people talk about their predictions

00:01:58   Me and Jason put up a list of predictions for each other. We asked for the help of the upgrade ian's and

00:02:03   We will be picking these

00:02:05   Predictions that we will then score on next week's episode live from San Jose, California

00:02:12   Broadcasting shortly after the event. So yeah, I would like to go through the rules Jason snow that we have

00:02:20   Accumulated over the last got have rules got have rules

00:02:24   There will be 10 rounds, 20 overall picks. We get 10 picks each.

00:02:28   It's a lot of rounds.

00:02:29   It's a lot of rounds, but there's a lot to pick from. We have something like 40 rumors

00:02:33   that we're picking from from our master list.

00:02:35   And keeping in mind that by doing this, what we've done is we've spread out the-- we've

00:02:41   broken down all the things that we think are possible announcements. Instead of what we

00:02:45   could have done, which was an incredibly boring episode where I draft a new version of iOS

00:02:50   you draft a new version of Mac OS and I draft a new version of tv OS, etc. etc. By doing

00:02:57   10 rounds and breaking things down much smaller, there's a lot more room for strategy and room

00:03:06   for us to be right and wrong, which means that I think it will be more interesting to

00:03:10   tally in the end.

00:03:11   And this was encapsulated in one rule, which is no points are awarded for preannounced

00:03:17   or ridiculously obvious items like iOS 11 announced,

00:03:21   which I think was something that was said

00:03:23   in the earlier drafts, like for example,

00:03:26   in our September iPhone event draft,

00:03:28   I think new iPhone announced

00:03:29   was one of the potential options.

00:03:31   Overall, that's probably not for the best.

00:03:35   - Probably not.

00:03:36   - The winner of the previous draft gets to go first,

00:03:40   and that is Jason.

00:03:42   - I was gonna say, do you want it to be the winner

00:03:43   of the previous draft, or should it be the winner

00:03:45   of the overall winner for the previous year?

00:03:47   Oh, it doesn't matter, they're both me.

00:03:49   - 2016's results, I won the first draft of WWDC 2016.

00:03:53   Jason claimed that he was playing for fun

00:03:55   not to win that year, so then he proved that

00:03:58   by winning the September event, which is the iPhone event,

00:04:00   the October MacBook event as well,

00:04:03   becoming the overall 2016 champion.

00:04:05   So Jason took home the trophy for the first year.

00:04:10   So he will be picking first today.

00:04:12   - To be fair, you're the WWDC champion,

00:04:14   so you've got that going.

00:04:15   You could say you're the reigning champion of this draft if you want to.

00:04:18   - This specific, this very specific draft I am currently--

00:04:21   - Second annual, yeah.

00:04:22   - Second annual.

00:04:23   For an item to count in the draft,

00:04:25   it must either be clearly announced on stage

00:04:27   or presented on a slide during the presentation.

00:04:31   - Right.

00:04:32   Imagine yourself sitting in the keynote room,

00:04:37   knowing nothing, you've been teleported there,

00:04:39   having been in a media blackout,

00:04:41   and then you watch the entire presentation,

00:04:43   and then you disappear again to return home

00:04:47   and what do you know at that point?

00:04:50   If it's, oh, but on their website it says this,

00:04:53   or oh, didn't you see they put out a press release

00:04:55   that said that, or oh, they made the statement

00:04:57   in an exclusive story that posted earlier that morning

00:05:00   or later last night that they're gonna do this.

00:05:04   That doesn't count. - Nope.

00:05:05   - They have to.

00:05:06   Now if they do that and then they mention it on stage,

00:05:09   even in passing, it can count.

00:05:12   but what it needs to not be is something that happens outside of the actual stage performance

00:05:18   of the keynote of WWDC.

00:05:20   Very well put. We will be having an adjudicator, an independent adjudicator, Mrs. Stephen Hackett,

00:05:26   in case of a scoring stalemate between the two of us. So we do prefer to score this ourselves

00:05:32   and come to an agreement on points ourselves, but when we can't, we refer to our outside

00:05:36   help which would be Stephen Hackett.

00:05:39   We wanted to specify this because last time, I believe, Stephen wanted to score something

00:05:43   differently than both of us did.

00:05:44   We're like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait."

00:05:46   That's not how this works.

00:05:48   You don't have that power.

00:05:49   Only if we give you that power.

00:05:50   So yes, we will try to work things out amongst ourselves before resorting to the court system,

00:05:56   which is Stephen Hackett.

00:05:57   I have instituted a new rule for 2017.

00:06:01   No half points.

00:06:02   It's tough, but I think we have to do it.

00:06:04   I think it's okay.

00:06:05   Basically, the debate will be, does it touch enough on the thing for it to count?

00:06:15   And my inclination is to make that more expansive.

00:06:18   Like if you said it'll do X, and they said, "Well, it's got this thing that is X, and

00:06:22   it also does this other thing," we'll debate, is that enough?

00:06:26   And I think generally, if it's close, then we'll give it to you, but that's going to

00:06:31   be the debate.

00:06:32   No fractional point stuff.

00:06:34   The last point is to our dear Upgradients. The points that we award on the episode are

00:06:40   final. It doesn't matter if you believe that we should be scored differently, and we do

00:06:46   encourage you to play along, and you can give your feedback during the event, before the

00:06:51   show, there will be in the show notes, you will find a scorecard that we will be preparing

00:06:55   for you. But whatever points we award on the show are final. That is how it's going to

00:07:01   work.

00:07:02   Absolutely.

00:07:03   We have draft rounds 1-5 coming up just after we take a moment to thank our friends over

00:07:10   at Encapsula for supporting this week's show.

00:07:13   They are the multifunction content delivery network that boosts the performance of your

00:07:16   website, protects it from denial of service attacks and secures it from bad guys whilst

00:07:21   ensuring high availability.

00:07:23   All you have to do is make a small change to your DNS to activate Encapsula.

00:07:28   You don't need to install any hardware, you don't need to install any software.

00:07:31   It is ready to go whenever you are, you just need to make that small change.

00:07:35   Once you do, you will have access to Encapsula's global network of 30 data centres with 3 terabits

00:07:40   of bandwidth.

00:07:41   This network stops attack traffic, makes sure that Denial of Servers attacks never hits

00:07:45   your servers and caches your content as well to make sure that your content loads lightning

00:07:51   fast and that people visiting your website would never even know something was going

00:07:55   wrong.

00:07:56   You can go and try out Encapsula for free today for one whole month because you listened

00:08:01   to this show. Just go to Encapsula.com/upgrade. That's I-N-C-A-P-S-U-L-A.com/upgrade. You'll

00:08:09   find out more about Encapsula's service here and also claim your free month. Thank you

00:08:13   so much to Encapsula for their continued support of this show and Relay FM.

00:08:19   Alright Jason Snell. Okay. Give me your number one draft pick.

00:08:24   All right, my first pick in the WWDC 2017 draft is, it's a developer conference, and

00:08:35   so a lot of the things are going to be announced are going to be pitched toward developers.

00:08:39   They're going to be about new features or enhanced features in the base operating systems.

00:08:46   So when I was thinking, "What's something that I think is very‚Ķ" because we're

00:08:50   down at the feature level here, right?

00:08:51   So it's what features do I think Apple's going to introduce

00:08:54   or enhance in a new version?

00:08:57   And so for my first selection, I'm going to say

00:09:00   a major enhancement to SiriKit in iOS.

00:09:05   - Ooh, that's a good one to begin with.

00:09:07   - So SiriKit was introduced last year

00:09:10   and it allows third-party apps to get their hooks into Siri

00:09:15   and make connections so that you can control data and apps

00:09:19   from Siri that are outside of Siri's base universe.

00:09:23   And when Apple introduced them,

00:09:25   they introduced a base set of SiriKit extensions

00:09:28   to do things like tie into, what is it like?

00:09:33   - Ride sharing, you can send money, that kind of stuff.

00:09:37   - Yeah, but very limited.

00:09:40   And at the time our analysis was very much,

00:09:43   this is a nice start,

00:09:44   there's stuff that's obviously missing like music

00:09:47   or audio things like to play a podcast in Overcast

00:09:51   or play music in Spotify, you can't do that.

00:09:53   And at the time the analysis was really,

00:09:55   look, Apple's getting their feet wet here,

00:09:57   they're starting this path, there will be more to come.

00:10:01   So I think this year we're gonna get some more SiriKit.

00:10:05   I think that Apple wants to lean in further into Siri

00:10:07   and they're gonna do it at WWDC.

00:10:09   And one of the ways they're gonna do it

00:10:11   is by adding a bunch of stuff to SiriKit.

00:10:14   - Yeah, this is a good pick

00:10:16   simply because maybe of everything, like rumor or not, maybe conjecture, this is the one

00:10:22   that if they don't do, I think would be probably the biggest glaring omission.

00:10:25   It would be a disappointment.

00:10:26   I know that me and you really want there to be iPad stuff, right? But Siri is AI and computer

00:10:34   learning and voice assistants, and that's where most of Apple's competitors are moving

00:10:39   today. So having nothing new in that area, I think would be a big miss for them.

00:10:44   Also, I think you can uncouple it from rumors entirely.

00:10:47   If I had walked out of the keynote last year

00:10:50   and you had said, what's the one thing

00:10:52   that you would expect would be in the announcements

00:10:56   the following year based on what you heard today,

00:10:59   I think I would say more SiriKit

00:11:01   because it was clear at that time

00:11:03   that this is an important direction for Apple

00:11:05   and this is just a first step.

00:11:07   And now sometimes Apple gets you

00:11:08   because they take the first step and you think,

00:11:10   well, obviously the next step is coming.

00:11:12   And then, like with a lot of the iOS features in iOS 9,

00:11:16   then nothing happens.

00:11:18   But I've got to think that Siri is so strategically

00:11:20   important for Apple that expanding SiriKit

00:11:24   is going to be a huge deal for them.

00:11:27   - Well, I remember us talking about it last year

00:11:29   and saying, "Why are no audio playing apps in this?"

00:11:32   And stuff like that.

00:11:33   I remember us talking about it and being like,

00:11:35   "That's surely coming later."

00:11:36   And that's the type of thing that we would expect next week.

00:11:39   - I don't want to commit my pick

00:11:41   to audio in particular, but I think I can back it out and just say, look, they're going

00:11:44   to add a bunch of stuff to SiriKit to make Siri more valuable. They're going to say,

00:11:48   here are two or three or four, whatever, more things that it can do, hopefully including

00:11:52   audio stuff, whether it's podcasts and music, so that you can control your favorite music

00:11:59   player. And who knows what else they'll add in there. But let's get there.

00:12:03   >> My first draft pick is something that I really, really want and have high hopes that

00:12:10   Apple will be able to deliver, especially if they can go down the route that we're hoping

00:12:14   that they will go. And even from the sense of Azure first pick, like this is a developer

00:12:19   conference, I think a really good thing for developers would be to show them where Apple's

00:12:23   moving and some stuff that they want them to look at. So my first pick is going to be

00:12:27   a redesigned iPad split view. So the multitasking switcher of the iPad, it has brought the iPad

00:12:34   on leaps and bounds for a lot of people. It was the ability to be able to view two iPad

00:12:40   side by side that brought people like me and you to the iPad as like a real productivity

00:12:45   tool. I think Apple is more than aware of this. They put a lot of time and effort into

00:12:48   the iPad Pro as a product. They continue even in the light of poor sales on the iPad to

00:12:55   talk about the product as if it's very important to them, remains to be very important to them.

00:13:00   And I really do believe that two years removed from this feature coming into place that we're

00:13:05   going to see stuff like this this year and they will want to show it off at the developer

00:13:08   conference to really hammer home the idea of people putting their time into building

00:13:14   professional productivity apps for the iPad and showing a redesigned split view will I

00:13:20   think really underscore that as a very important part because that is one of the things that

00:13:24   makes the iPad Pro a very productive machine.

00:13:27   Yeah. Well, and going back to last year, we had a lot of disappointment, I think, among

00:13:33   people who were hoping that Apple would keep its forward momentum with iOS 9, adding these

00:13:37   features for the iPad and were disappointed it didn't happen. And then there was a lot

00:13:43   of talk last year about how Apple's plan, the rumblings, were to do an update midstream

00:13:51   that would add more iPad stuff, and that didn't happen either. So I think this is a good choice

00:13:57   because I think I have a hard time... I'm going to be really blunt here and say if Apple

00:14:02   doesn't address these iPad features at WWDC in iOS 11, basically, I have a hard time seeing

00:14:10   why Apple is even bothering with the iPad. Like, if you show no software commitment,

00:14:15   why are you even making this product? If you can't commit to continue pushing this product

00:14:19   forward and making it a future, you know, the computer of the future for you, why are

00:14:23   you wasting your time? Just drop it and start updating the Mac because you can't, your story

00:14:30   about trying to make the iPad the computer of the future only works if you will commit

00:14:34   any software resources to adding stuff for it. So I think they got to do stuff and this

00:14:39   is the most glaring, again, sort of like what I was saying about SiriKit, it's the kind

00:14:43   of thing where they introduce it and you immediately know that it needs to be better than it is.

00:14:47   And that was two years ago now that they introduced it. So it's got to be there. This was my number

00:14:51   two on my list. So I think it is a good pick. Very good pick.

00:14:57   You're up.

00:14:58   All right, my second pick,

00:15:01   I know this seems a little weird,

00:15:02   but it seems like such an obvious feature

00:15:07   that doesn't currently exist,

00:15:09   and it seems like when we were making our list,

00:15:14   trying to come up with what the Mac features would be.

00:15:18   (laughing)

00:15:19   - I had nothing. - Was hard.

00:15:20   - I had nothing.

00:15:21   - We were grinding to try to kind of do it.

00:15:23   And this is a follow on.

00:15:25   So last year, macOS Sierra introduced Siri support.

00:15:30   And I keep thinking again, what is step two?

00:15:34   One of the ways you look at what they're gonna do this year

00:15:37   is to try to imagine sort of what did they do last year

00:15:40   and what would they push forward in those areas in year two?

00:15:43   What would those be?

00:15:45   And so thinking that Siri and HomeKit

00:15:49   may be very important strategic areas

00:15:51   for Apple going forward.

00:15:54   I think one of the glaring deficiencies in Siri on the Mac

00:15:57   is that it has no support for HomeKit.

00:16:00   If you ask it to do things using HomeKit,

00:16:02   it says, "I can't do that here," which is infuriating.

00:16:07   So I think I have to select Mac support for HomeKit

00:16:12   as my second selection.

00:16:14   - I struggle with this one, Jason.

00:16:19   I see your point, right?

00:16:20   this is a big product line for them, right?

00:16:24   Like people have them in their homes.

00:16:27   I just don't know if the Mac is a product

00:16:30   that on its own needs it, right?

00:16:32   So like in Apple's world, my thought would be,

00:16:36   oh, you just talk to the device on your wrist

00:16:38   or the device on your desk, which is your phone

00:16:40   or your iPad or the device in your pocket,

00:16:42   or our canister device.

00:16:44   I don't see that the Mac is--

00:16:46   - Yeah, but why have Siri on the Mac at all?

00:16:49   I mean, follow me here.

00:16:51   Why have Siri on the Mac at all?

00:16:52   And the answer is that what they're doing on the Mac

00:16:54   is adding features from the rest of their platforms.

00:16:57   That's sort of like what they're left with on the Mac

00:16:59   is sort of not doing a lot other than adding in the features

00:17:02   from the other platforms.

00:17:03   And they added Siri, so why not add in HomeKit?

00:17:05   Even if it doesn't make a lot of sense,

00:17:07   it allows you to say, even on the Mac, you can do it.

00:17:09   So that's my rationale here,

00:17:12   is that it's an important feature for Apple.

00:17:14   And when you look to the Mac,

00:17:15   a lot of what you have to do is look to

00:17:17   What are the iOS features and the general Apple platform features that they want to

00:17:21   make sure also are on the Mac?

00:17:23   And so here we are.

00:17:25   And that's why I think that this is a fairly high percentage chance just because it's important

00:17:30   stuff and they already have Siri on the Mac.

00:17:33   So why doesn't it already support this?

00:17:34   So you add that in there.

00:17:35   Maybe you add a little home app or put something in Notification Center as well.

00:17:40   I'm sort of envisioning this as basically just being in Siri, but they could have a

00:17:44   Notification Center widget as well that lets you click lights on and off and stuff like

00:17:49   that, and why not put that on the Mac?

00:17:51   I get your point, right? Like that it doesn't matter whether it makes sense to have it on

00:17:54   the device, it's just if you follow Apple's movements and how they treat the Mac now,

00:18:00   right? Like, and it's the reason we struggle to come up with things is there isn't as much

00:18:04   obvious stuff for the Mac anymore because it's a very mature operating system.

00:18:08   And follow me, you know, a lot of times people are sitting at their Mac, they don't have

00:18:11   an iOS device nearby. They're sitting on the couch and they want to turn on the light and

00:18:14   they're sitting on using a MacBook on their lap. Like they could get up, they could buy

00:18:19   potentially a lady in a canister from Apple and ask it to turn on the lights or from another

00:18:25   vendor or they could just sort of swipe into Notification Center or use Siri on their Mac

00:18:30   and say turn on these lights. It makes sense. Again, yeah, I mean, is it earth-shattering?

00:18:35   No, but it's an obvious hole in the product line that they could fit, they could fill

00:18:39   in an area that's important to them.

00:18:40   So that's why I, again, I'm going for things

00:18:42   that I think will actually be done

00:18:44   rather than totally, we'll get to the wacky stuff later.

00:18:47   But that's my, I know, not exciting,

00:18:50   but still Mac support for HomeKit would be good.

00:18:53   - I think it's a logical pick, right?

00:18:55   Like as you said, like if you follow Apple's movements

00:18:57   in SiriKit, HomeKit, and the Mac in general, right?

00:19:02   Like moving iOS features over it makes sense.

00:19:05   - And to the point of somebody in our chat room

00:19:08   whose name I can't pronounce, but I will say,

00:19:11   this person says the arbitrary divisions

00:19:13   between iOS and macOS Siri

00:19:14   are unnecessarily confusing to consumers.

00:19:16   I agree, I think one of the issues with Siri right now

00:19:18   is that if you use it on the watch,

00:19:21   if you use it on iOS, if you use it on the Mac,

00:19:23   or Apple TV, there are totally different rules

00:19:27   about what you can do on all those platforms.

00:19:28   - That's genius.

00:19:29   - And if I were the Siri product manager at Apple,

00:19:32   one of my goals I think would need to be

00:19:35   that Siri everywhere behaves like Siri,

00:19:37   because Amazon's, I've seen it, Amazon kind of is pushing that way, where if you've got

00:19:42   a Fire TV, you basically have an Echo, because there's a voice remote and you can talk to

00:19:48   it and it has Alexa in it. So let's do that with Siri, and right now it's not there.

00:19:55   Yeah, I think that that makes a lot of sense. Why should this be a service or a system that

00:20:03   gives you vastly different capabilities, platform to platform, even though it's pitched as being

00:20:09   the same thing.

00:20:10   I mean, you get used to your home kit lights being turned on and off on your iPhone, and

00:20:14   then you're on your Mac and it's got Siri. You know that you can just do it there, right?

00:20:17   And then it says, "Nope. Good luck. Sorry, suckers." It's not good. So, yeah, that's

00:20:23   my thought. What do you have?

00:20:24   I'm continuing my theme. There have been a lot of hardware rumors for this WWDC. What

00:20:30   feels like a...

00:20:32   More than usual.

00:20:33   Yeah, like an unprecedented, might not be the right word, but unusual.

00:20:36   Right, like there is an unusual amount.

00:20:39   I feel the volume of hardware rumors for this event is the most I've seen.

00:20:45   Usually there are a handful, but there is a raft of them this time.

00:20:50   And I think part of the reason why is because we haven't had a hardware event since October,

00:20:55   right?

00:20:56   Like there have been small products come out, right, like the cheaper iPad and stuff like

00:21:01   that, and the red phone.

00:21:02   have come out, but not really new hardware, where we probably by this time would have

00:21:07   seen a hardware event, like an iPad-focused event. So if there's going to be hardware,

00:21:13   I think that the product that is most in need of a revision right now is the iPad Pro. There

00:21:19   has not been a new 12.9-inch iPad Pro since September of 2015? Was that when it came out?

00:21:27   I guess so, right? Yeah.

00:21:29   Well, it was announced in September of '15,

00:21:32   shipped in December.

00:21:34   Like October, November, something like that.

00:21:35   Yeah, later in the year, but still 2015.

00:21:36   November, December, it was later.

00:21:38   I mean, yeah, it was later that it shipped.

00:21:42   But yeah, that's it, 'cause that's what I have.

00:21:44   That's mine, and that's the 12.9 was then.

00:21:47   And then in the spring, they shipped the 9.7.

00:21:50   So there's been no new iPad Pro since.

00:21:53   And again, I'm really feeling very confident

00:21:57   just for absolutely no reason other than just what my hopes are that this will be a heavily

00:22:02   iPad focused version of iOS. If that is the case, what better than to show a brand new

00:22:08   iPad Pro. There have been rumors after rumors after rumors. It really feels like this thing

00:22:12   is just around the corner. Why not announce it next week as a way to really drive home

00:22:18   continued focus on the iPad. If that's the route that they're going, this product makes

00:22:22   a lot of sense, so my second pick is that a new iPad Pro will be announced on stage.

00:22:29   I love this and want this to happen, and maybe because I want this so much, I was more skeptical

00:22:36   about whether it will happen. I realize this says a lot about me, that my expectation is,

00:22:41   will Apple give me what I really desperately want? Probably not. That's right, that's why.

00:22:46   No, they're not, they're gonna. And so I think the percentage chance of this, I think this

00:22:51   could happen. I love those rumors. I want it to happen, but Apple doesn't have to announce

00:22:55   it at WWDC. Last week, I think, I went through the reason why they would do it. And the answer

00:23:00   is it's a part of a larger story about their commitment to the iPad and all the iPad features

00:23:04   that are going to be in iOS 11. And they showed this product and say, "This is amazing. And

00:23:08   you as developers are going to be able to test all of our new features on it immediately

00:23:12   when it ships." That said, they could also ship it later. They could ship it at any time

00:23:17   They could ship it in the summer at a separate event, without an event.

00:23:23   They could go in the fall at the iPhone event.

00:23:25   There are so many different ways they could ship this product.

00:23:28   That's what gives me pause.

00:23:31   The only issue, and the rumors back this up, is that they seem to have been making them,

00:23:38   or at least ramping up to make them.

00:23:41   This is a big event, so why not release it here?

00:23:45   Even if you could normally give it 30 minutes in a keynote and here you can only give it

00:23:49   10, still maybe it's the best space rather than doing it. But I could see the other argument,

00:23:56   which is let's wait and release it. Even in a press release, it'll get more press because

00:24:01   it'll be released in a vacuum in the summertime instead of amid all of these other announcements

00:24:07   on this day. So I could go either way on it. I want it to happen. I think you're taking

00:24:11   a little risk in terms of winning the draft, but I can't fault you because it is something

00:24:16   that we both want to see.

00:24:17   It's, you know, and I said this before, it's where Myke was right came from. It's

00:24:21   like my idea of that this is a product that maybe on its own won't get as much attention

00:24:27   as if they put it with everything else, right? They debuted the original iPad Pro alongside

00:24:33   the iPhone and putting anything alongside the iPhone will be overshadowed by the iPhone,

00:24:37   That is the big event.

00:24:39   But in the other way, also,

00:24:42   it brings more eyes potentially to it

00:24:44   because everyone's got their eyes on it.

00:24:46   And WWDC's keynote would probably have more people watching

00:24:50   than an August event.

00:24:52   So that is a reason to do it.

00:24:54   - I agree, and I think you can make a really great case

00:24:57   with this amazing hardware,

00:24:58   how Apple's pushing the hardware forward,

00:25:00   and here's how Apple's also pushing the software forward.

00:25:02   So I hope we see it.

00:25:04   I hope that's what we get.

00:25:05   - All right, pick number three, Jason Snow.

00:25:07   Okay, my third pick, I wrote two books about photos.

00:25:12   I know a lot about photos,

00:25:14   photos for Mac and iCloud photo library,

00:25:17   which means I know painfully all the things

00:25:19   that you can't do with it.

00:25:20   Last year, again, going back to last year,

00:25:22   last year they introduced this machine learning

00:25:26   generated metadata across on your photos.

00:25:30   So on Mac, photos for Mac or iPad or iPhone,

00:25:33   your photo library would be scanned by software

00:25:36   and then it would say there's a dog in there,

00:25:39   or a horse, or a mountain, or whatever, right?

00:25:43   And of course that's going to be improved.

00:25:46   I suppose you could pick improving machine learning

00:25:48   if you really wanted to,

00:25:49   although that's not a very exciting pick.

00:25:51   What I'm going to pick is the, again,

00:25:53   obvious missing feature that I feel like they need to add.

00:25:57   Right now, if you update,

00:25:59   when everybody updated to Sierra and iOS 11,

00:26:01   or iOS 10 on their devices,

00:26:04   What happened is all of them warmed up or turn on their fans if they had fans,

00:26:10   because every device had to scan every photo separately.

00:26:13   And the, which also leads to, if they scan them differently, you get different

00:26:18   results on different devices, which is also very weird, but it's also wasteful

00:26:21   because you have one device that scanned your entire library and then you bring

00:26:23   up another device, it's also going to scan its entire library.

00:26:26   They can't share the metadata.

00:26:28   One device can't scan it and say, okay, I figured it out.

00:26:30   Here are the tags.

00:26:32   don't bother scanning this photo, which you could totally do, because all the devices

00:26:35   have access to the data in the cloud. Apple doesn't, but your devices do, because that's

00:26:39   how they share their data. So my prediction here is that one of the things Apple's going

00:26:43   to add in a section about photos is this syncing of learning across devices, so that now when

00:26:53   you take a picture, it's scanned immediately by your phone, and the scanned data and the

00:26:59   photo or synced across iCloud photo library, your other devices pick it up automatically,

00:27:04   they don't have to do anything, it just happens.

00:27:07   And that Apple finds some way, however they do it, with this, what do they call it, differential

00:27:12   privacy or something like that, where they manage to, even though it's syncing, keep

00:27:17   all of that completely private.

00:27:19   Well it's not, I mean, I don't think it's related to that at all, because this is individual

00:27:24   devices with encrypted access to the data. This thing is already private. Apple already

00:27:28   can't see your photos unless you share them right with other people. Apple, it's already

00:27:32   encrypted. All this is doing is putting more metadata in the encryption. It's something

00:27:36   they can do. It doesn't require any fancy privacy stuff because it's already part of

00:27:40   the system of you're logged in, therefore you can have access to the encrypted data

00:27:44   on the server and decrypt it. This is just putting more data in and they can do it. And

00:27:49   I think they'll do it and say, look, like I just described, it's this amazing process

00:27:54   where your phone scans it and does all this stuff and uploads it and now it's automatically

00:27:59   everywhere. Because we were in a situation where like, literally you could have a computer

00:28:04   on at home and be out in the world somewhere taking a bunch of photos and those would,

00:28:10   your like fan at home on your computer would come on because a bunch of new photos came

00:28:15   in and it's like, "Oh, I gotta scan these photos." So I, you know, maybe not. I'm taking

00:28:20   a little bit of a gamble, but I like this one because I feel like it's a missing piece

00:28:23   that they could fix and boast about on stage and say, "Look, we got it now. This is even

00:28:28   more awesome than it was before."

00:28:29   Tell you what I would love to know, Jason. The amount of computing time wasted on looking

00:28:36   at this data, right? Everybody has multiple devices. Only one device needs to do this,

00:28:43   but all of their devices do it. Just thinking about all of the wasted computing time in

00:28:47   doing that on every single device that you have.

00:28:51   - Yeah, it's not good, right?

00:28:54   And I know that maybe we should just think

00:28:57   of that computing time as trivial,

00:28:58   but like if I've got a Mac

00:29:00   with a big iCloud photo library on it

00:29:02   and it scans them all, why when I,

00:29:05   it seems really dumb that then when I upgrade my phone,

00:29:08   it gets hot and I have to leave it plugged in overnight

00:29:10   and it just sits there warm,

00:29:13   churning through all these photos.

00:29:15   Plus there's, yeah, downloading data

00:29:17   in order to analyze the photos and yeah, it's just, it's dumb.

00:29:20   I think they, it seems so obvious that my suspicion,

00:29:24   and I don't know anything in detail about this,

00:29:26   but my suspicion is this is one of those things

00:29:29   that they knew was a feature they needed to have

00:29:31   and they just couldn't implement it

00:29:33   in time to ship the product.

00:29:34   And I'm a little surprised that it didn't come

00:29:37   sometime in the intervening time in an update,

00:29:40   but it didn't, so it's right there.

00:29:42   - I'm gonna shift gears a little bit.

00:29:45   Let's talk about the TV, huh?

00:29:46   TVOS, everyone.

00:29:49   I'm gonna pick for my third pick that the Amazon Prime TV application, the Amazon Prime

00:29:54   Video app will be shown on stage or announced on stage as coming to the Apple TV at some

00:30:00   point this year.

00:30:02   So the Amazon Prime will have it.

00:30:04   I think that it's big enough for Apple to say this, right, that they will want everyone

00:30:11   to know that this is coming.

00:30:14   And as a way of kind of negotiating a deal between the two companies, Amazon gets a little

00:30:17   bit time on stage or they get a trailer of their shows shown, right? Like it's good for

00:30:22   everyone and it's a little slap on the back for everybody doing that deal.

00:30:28   >> Great. That's a -- I -- as a handicapper, again, this is a thing I want to see. I do

00:30:36   wonder if given that it's already been reported that it's happening and that this is a fraught

00:30:44   relationship, I think there's also a really good chance that it is absolutely not mentioned.

00:30:52   But I, yeah, I mean, right? It could be, because I don't know what the scope of this deal is.

00:30:56   Maybe the deal is, yes, and we'll do a formal announcement and demo on stage and we'll reaffirm

00:31:01   our partnership and everybody will hug and it'll be great, right? I mean, maybe, maybe.

00:31:06   It could also be like, we're not going to even talk about it. I could see it either

00:31:11   way.

00:31:12   I'm going to go back to the slide which is a very easy slide to put up when talking about

00:31:14   tvOS of the new channels and providers coming.

00:31:19   It's just a big slide of logos and Amazon's on it.

00:31:23   I see a lot of scope for this to be announced, right?

00:31:26   Like all the way down from a logo on a slide all the way up to time on stage, right?

00:31:33   The reason I think that this would happen is that if it is happening, it will be one

00:31:37   of the biggest things to happen to tvOS.

00:31:39   I don't think that this is the platform that's going to get an absolute ton of stuff devoted

00:31:44   to it, and this would be a quick win for tvOS, which is something that looks like an improvement

00:31:50   to the operating system coming in September, but really, it's just another app, right?

00:31:55   But it's something that they can bundle into tvOS 11 or whatever number it's going to be

00:31:59   when it ships in the fall.

00:32:01   Yeah, right.

00:32:03   Yeah, and they could be spun that way, as look how amazing this is going to be, and

00:32:06   yes, Amazon's going to be there.

00:32:08   We'll see.

00:32:09   We'll see.

00:32:09   - Pick number four.

00:32:10   - Oh, it's getting tough already.

00:32:14   It's getting tough already.

00:32:15   I'm gonna kinda hedge a little bit

00:32:21   with your previous first round pick

00:32:24   of the redesigned split view and app picker for iPad

00:32:28   and throw in another iPad feature.

00:32:35   - I think you're picking my number four.

00:32:36   that seems obvious.

00:32:40   Again, I think it's a little risky

00:32:41   'cause you picked the clear best pick

00:32:45   of what would be coming with multitasking improvements,

00:32:48   which is a better app picker

00:32:50   'cause that app picker is so bad.

00:32:52   - But what I know you're picking is second best, I think.

00:32:55   - It is second best.

00:32:56   That's why it's the fourth round pick

00:32:57   and not a first pick, it's a value pick at four.

00:33:00   Drag and drop support across split view on the iPad.

00:33:05   that the idea that there will be a way

00:33:09   and it'll be a message to developers,

00:33:11   here's how you support it.

00:33:12   And it'll be a way for you to grab a selection

00:33:15   on one side of the split view and take your finger

00:33:19   and slide it over and drop it in another container.

00:33:23   Because that's part of multitasking.

00:33:25   And you've got two apps on the screen,

00:33:28   they should be able to transfer data back and forth

00:33:30   without a laborious kind of copy paste

00:33:33   or putting it into a place in a file

00:33:35   and then removing it in another file.

00:33:38   There should be a nice way to get that data

00:33:41   visually from left to right or right to left.

00:33:43   And maybe even to a slide over,

00:33:46   which I was thinking would also be cool,

00:33:47   is if you can drag and drop to the right,

00:33:50   the slide over pops open, you drop and you let go.

00:33:54   That would be pretty cool too.

00:33:55   But so I'm gonna say drag and drop in some form in iOS

00:33:59   between different apps.

00:34:01   - And I'm sure that you have played around

00:34:04   with what Redol has done with their applications in the last week.

00:34:07   That's a great example, isn't it?

00:34:10   So Redol, who creates Spark and documents and PDF expert, they create a bunch of great

00:34:15   applications.

00:34:16   They have implemented a form of drag and drop between their apps in Split View.

00:34:20   It is kind of incredible that they have got it to work as well as it does.

00:34:26   You drag icons of files between the applications and it works perfectly.

00:34:32   is almost as if Apple gave them advanced access to a feature. Like, it is perfect. And they

00:34:41   have done a fantastic job. And it fills me with a lot of hope, right? Like, they made

00:34:46   it work. There's a way to make it work.

00:34:48   And they made it work with bizarre, like, they're running local web servers in the background

00:34:53   that are transferring data back and forth. It's like, it's also, not only is it a demonstration

00:34:57   of how nice it would be to have drag and drop in iOS, it's also a demonstration of why it

00:35:02   It should be a system-level feature supported by the operating system, because running local

00:35:07   web servers is just bananas.

00:35:10   Most definitely.

00:35:11   All right, for my number four pick, I'm going to go with something that I think Apple might

00:35:17   do to maybe pander a little bit to a vocal minority, potentially, of developers, and

00:35:26   provide them with updates to professional Mac hardware.

00:35:29   I think Apple have shown in the last six months

00:35:32   that they really wanna look like they are supporting

00:35:37   Macintosh professionals, right?

00:35:39   They did that little round table.

00:35:41   - You said the right word that you said pander

00:35:43   and people will say, well, what does Apple,

00:35:44   what does Apple pander to in its keynotes?

00:35:46   The answer is this is a developer keynote.

00:35:49   This is the place where the pandering happens

00:35:52   the most at an Apple keynote

00:35:54   because they have an audience of developers.

00:35:56   It's the developer conference.

00:35:57   So they always try to have a message that even though it's got a broader reach, resonates

00:36:04   with that developer audience, that's what gets the big applause in that audience.

00:36:09   And so I think going developer appeal with something and pandering to developers is a

00:36:16   good play in a keynote draft.

00:36:17   So well done.

00:36:18   What's the pick?

00:36:19   Matt Pro update of some description.

00:36:22   On stage they will talk about that there is an update to the MacBook Pros.

00:36:25   It will probably just be chips, right, they get a new chip revision.

00:36:29   But I believe of all of the hardware that they may show off for pros, Macintosh pros,

00:36:36   let's say, MacBook Pro will be on the top of that list, because it's probably, probably

00:36:41   the easiest for them to do right now.

00:36:44   Yeah, I mean, there are rumors about it, and then people have pooh-poohed it, but as we

00:36:51   we talked about last week, two weeks ago, nothing sends the message better to professional

00:36:58   users that you've heard the complaints and you're taking it seriously than doing a less

00:37:04   than one year update cycle on a brand new system so that you can drop in the latest

00:37:11   and greatest Intel processors, right? That just sends the message of, we got it, we get

00:37:16   it. You want this updated faster? Here it is. Here it is. You know, we know that there's

00:37:20   only came out in October, we don't care, there are new processors, so here's a new, you know,

00:37:25   update to the MacBook Pro.

00:37:26   Get used to it, every six months there might be a new one, right? Like, I think that's

00:37:29   a message that they want to send, like, you waited for like two years, but now it's six

00:37:32   months, look, we can do this, we promised, like, we're so sorry, we screwed up, never

00:37:37   again.

00:37:38   Yeah.

00:37:39   Alright, pick number five, Jason Snell, halfway there.

00:37:42   Halfway there, alright, um, I'm going back to the Mac again, which seems crazy, but,

00:37:47   That's bold.

00:37:48   There it is. Well, follow me. They do have to talk about the Mac.

00:37:53   Yeah, they have to do something. Yeah, I get it.

00:37:55   I mean, they can't just be like, "The Mac is also a product in our product line."

00:38:00   I guess they could do that, but they probably won't, to the people who use, the developers who use Macs every day to write their software.

00:38:05   So, the Touch Bar came out last fall with the new MacBook Pros.

00:38:13   It required an OS update to support this new concept of the touch bar. So in doing

00:38:21   my kind of tea leaf reading, what I'm doing here is making a guess that now

00:38:26   that we're gonna have a full-on Mac OS update in the fall, let's assume that

00:38:32   that could be a great pick if you want to pick it. Like, no major Mac OS

00:38:36   update. It could happen, but probably won't. I think this is their opportunity

00:38:42   to advance the ball a little bit in terms of touch bar. I think it lets them

00:38:46   tell a story about the touch bar, perhaps even in midstream with what you just

00:38:51   picked, which is an update to the MacBook Pro. Part of a Mac update and about the

00:38:55   touch bar, and people are loving it they'll say they're loving it,

00:38:59   okay, is expanded touch bar stuff in Mac OS. For, you know, my example, I mean,

00:39:09   I think what my pick is going to be, like, technically is new Touch Bar features in Mac OS,

00:39:15   but what I'm thinking of here, for example, is the ability for third-party apps to put things in the Touch Bar

00:39:24   when they're not in the foreground.

00:39:26   The idea that you can take, like, the menu bar, you can take a utility and park a little thing in the control strip

00:39:32   and let people have access to it anywhere.

00:39:36   Basically, I'm expecting Apple to try and make the Touch Bar more functional.

00:39:41   Like, here are even more ways you could use it that you couldn't use it before.

00:39:45   Because, like so many of the other things we've said, if what they do is roll up the Touch Bar in its current form,

00:39:50   which was limited and we were all kind of like, "Okay, but obviously this is going to grow and progress,"

00:39:56   if then the next year they show no growth and progression, what did they just do?

00:40:01   Did they just abandon the Touch Bar? They shipped it and forgot about it?

00:40:04   or are they gonna put some more work

00:40:05   into getting people on board?

00:40:06   Now it's possible that this is an iOS multitasking thing

00:40:10   where they ship it and then they walk away

00:40:12   for two years instead of one.

00:40:15   But I'm gonna pick it because I feel like

00:40:18   it goes with some of the conversations

00:40:20   about the MacBook Pro,

00:40:21   it goes with some of the conversations

00:40:22   about caring about the Mac.

00:40:23   It's a new Mac feature,

00:40:25   so it's an opportunity to improve it.

00:40:28   So yeah, so I think something to improve

00:40:31   the Touch Bar support in macOS,

00:40:33   hopefully involving things like the control strip and third parties.

00:40:37   Yeah, I think as well this is a new piece of hardware that is going into the top-end laptop,

00:40:44   the highest-end laptop, which isn't really getting a lot of focus. And I think Apple probably don't

00:40:51   want that to be the case, right? A lot of engineering time went into making this thing

00:40:54   a reality. It is, I'm sure, a significantly pricey component in the new MacBook Pros that

00:41:00   that they won't want to remove, right?

00:41:02   I don't think that the next full revision

00:41:05   of the MacBook Pro, I don't think it will want

00:41:07   to take this away.

00:41:09   So I think they will put even more time and effort

00:41:12   into trying to make this a part of people's workflows, right?

00:41:16   It would not be good for Apple to,

00:41:18   for the next MacBook Pro to go back to hardware keys again.

00:41:23   - Well, that would be a big admission of failure, right?

00:41:25   That would be, that would be,

00:41:26   and I don't feel like we're at the point yet

00:41:28   - No way, no way. - Where the market is saying,

00:41:30   stop trying to make Touch Bar happen.

00:41:32   Like, we're not there yet, but we may get there.

00:41:36   And one of the ways you stave off getting there

00:41:38   is by actually investing effort in making it better.

00:41:42   - It's the exact same argument for the iPad, right?

00:41:44   That we're saying, you put more into it

00:41:46   before you let it go.

00:41:48   - Yeah, why are you even bothering with a Touch Bar

00:41:50   if you're not gonna work on it and make it more functional

00:41:53   and give people more ability, developers and users

00:41:57   more ability to use it and succeed with it, right?

00:42:00   I mean, why are you even trying?

00:42:02   If you're gonna do a half of an effort here,

00:42:06   why even bother?

00:42:08   Just, you know, give up.

00:42:09   So I wanna see forward progress on the touch bar

00:42:12   because that's a sign of Apple trying to make it work.

00:42:15   - So for my fifth pick, I'm gonna go with a similar thing,

00:42:20   but on iOS, and I'm gonna go for improved 3D touch support

00:42:25   across iOS, probably mostly on the iPhone.

00:42:28   I think for a similar thing,

00:42:30   3D touch is maybe used more than the touch bar.

00:42:32   I think Apple like it.

00:42:33   It is a hardware feature that they put into their devices.

00:42:36   And I think that there is gonna be even more functionality

00:42:41   that will be given to the user via use of 3D touch.

00:42:46   Like for example, in iOS 10,

00:42:48   we got the ability to force touch or 3D touch

00:42:51   onto applications to get widgets to come up

00:42:53   to 3D Touch notifications to get additional actions.

00:42:56   I think that we're gonna see more of that.

00:42:58   So there'll be more in iOS 11 on the iPhone

00:43:00   that you will be able to get to via the use of 3D Touch.

00:43:04   - Same arguments apply, right?

00:43:07   This is a feature that exists

00:43:10   and what we wanna do is see it taken further somehow,

00:43:13   like make it go everywhere.

00:43:15   Like last year, one of the nice things that they did

00:43:17   was they added 3D Touch to notification

00:43:19   or to a control center, which I love, right?

00:43:22   which when 3D Touch came out, we all said,

00:43:24   why is this, why are there parts of the system

00:43:27   where I can't 3D Touch?

00:43:28   And the danger there is that you stop 3D Touching in places

00:43:31   'cause you just assume, you can't tell

00:43:33   whether you're gonna get a 3D Touch or not.

00:43:34   So yeah, more 3D Touch stuff I think is great.

00:43:39   I think that's a, showing that it's gonna keep rolling

00:43:44   and that there's more to do

00:43:44   and there's more ways to integrate it

00:43:46   and we want people to use it even more

00:43:47   and we want developers to embrace it even more, right?

00:43:51   I think that's all part of the story there. So I like that pick.

00:43:55   So we're halfway through now. I think we're going strong. There's a lot left on the table,

00:43:59   right? Like I'm looking at our list here and there's a lot of big ones that we've not gotten

00:44:03   to yet. Like things that are being heavily rumoured that we're not getting to yet. I

00:44:08   think to play the smart game here, I'm liking this draft. It's coming together pretty nicely.

00:44:14   Let's take a break. Thank our friends and new sponsor for Upgrade, and that is Flow.

00:44:19   Let me tell you what Flow is.

00:44:20   Flow is simple project management for teams everywhere.

00:44:25   And this is for teams, companies everywhere, and also companies that have people everywhere

00:44:29   as well.

00:44:30   Flow helps you run your company, your team, and your projects your way.

00:44:34   It gives you a single space to stay on top of everything that's happening in your workplace.

00:44:38   If you're having trouble managing a busy team or find yourself battling a flood of emails

00:44:43   and notifications, struggling to keep up with who's working on what, Flow is for you.

00:44:48   It was designed for users, not just managers, by a world-class team who work with companies

00:44:52   like Slack, Apple, TED and Tumblr to help them get their work done.

00:44:57   There are beautiful apps for the web, the desktop, iOS and Android.

00:45:01   Your team will be up and running with Flow in minutes with no training required no matter

00:45:04   what platforms they use.

00:45:06   And then Flow will let you and them run things yours and their way.

00:45:11   Flow makes it easy to plan ahead, track projects from start to finish and organise tasks as

00:45:16   lists, cards or on a calendar as well.

00:45:19   And at a glance you will get clear visibility into who's working on what and how projects

00:45:24   are progressing.

00:45:25   Flow is made by a team who are based all over the world and is designed for teams of all

00:45:29   shapes and sizes.

00:45:31   Wherever your people are, Flow gives them the space to collaborate and focus on the

00:45:35   work that is important.

00:45:37   And if you're used to using Slack, they have a great integration that lets you run your

00:45:40   projects and create tasks right from in your Slack chat.

00:45:44   Go to getflow.com/upgrade and you can start your free trial today.

00:45:52   And because you're a listener of this show, you will save 20% on a monthly plan or 30%

00:45:56   on an annual subscription at checkout.

00:45:59   Just sign up right now at getflow.com/upgrade and we thank Flow for their support of this

00:46:03   show and Relay FM.

00:46:07   All right, Jason, we are into round six of the draft.

00:46:11   I've refilled my tea cup.

00:46:14   - Good idea.

00:46:15   Good idea.

00:46:16   - Yeah.

00:46:17   All right, round six.

00:46:18   It's just getting tougher out there.

00:46:21   I'm gonna go to something

00:46:22   that I think you will really like, Myke.

00:46:24   And again, if there's anything

00:46:26   that you can see as a thread in my picks,

00:46:33   it's trying to imagine ways that Apple is pushing

00:46:37   the existing technologies that they've got

00:46:41   forward a little bit more, especially new stuff.

00:46:44   Like what's step two is a lot of what I'm doing here.

00:46:47   And that's a gamble because sometimes step two

00:46:49   doesn't come right after step one,

00:46:50   instead there's like a gap.

00:46:52   But, and this one is a little bit of a,

00:46:54   it's a little bit of a wacky one,

00:46:57   but I feel like we're gonna get something on stage

00:47:00   in discussing iOS that talks about ways

00:47:04   that Apple has added features to the camera app

00:47:08   to do new cool things with the dual camera

00:47:13   on the back of the iPhone 7 Plus.

00:47:16   - That feels like a risky one to me.

00:47:18   I would like to hear your thinking on this.

00:47:20   - Well, my thinking is that they made this iPhone

00:47:25   with two cameras on it, and I'm gonna assume

00:47:27   that all future iPhones are gonna have two cameras

00:47:29   on the back.

00:47:31   and that they want to continue to push forward

00:47:36   in terms of what they can do with those two cameras,

00:47:41   that they want to continue adding features.

00:47:44   And that last year they couldn't announce this

00:47:46   as an iOS feature, right?

00:47:47   Because there was no hardware, but now there's hardware.

00:47:49   And one of the things I like about Apple

00:47:51   is that sometimes when they make a product announcement,

00:47:54   it's a stealth product announcement

00:47:56   for a future hardware product, like multitasking.

00:47:58   It's like, this only runs on the iPad Air 2.

00:48:01   Hmm.

00:48:02   Well, what was happening was that the iPad Pro was coming.

00:48:04   And so I think about that this way,

00:48:06   that like if the iPhone 8, let's say,

00:48:10   the much rumored iPhone 8, and the 7S Plus, let's say,

00:48:14   have dual camera support,

00:48:15   like dual camera is coming into the line more and more,

00:48:19   and what does that mean?

00:48:21   The answer is, well, it means we wanna keep on pushing

00:48:24   what the software can do with that hardware.

00:48:27   and there's an existing dual camera phone,

00:48:29   so we can do that now, right?

00:48:32   And add features that take advantage of it.

00:48:35   I don't know what those features are exactly

00:48:37   and I don't wanna predict them.

00:48:38   I just feel like they had one shot,

00:48:41   they had a step one where they're like,

00:48:43   yeah, we've got this focus effect that we can do.

00:48:47   And it's gonna be in beta in the phone

00:48:51   and then, you know, or there'll be an update

00:48:53   that supports it later, right?

00:48:55   And then that's been what we've had.

00:48:57   And I feel like there's a real opportunity there

00:48:59   for them to have taken the last year

00:49:03   to come up with other ways of using that hardware

00:49:08   that's gonna be in future phones as well.

00:49:10   So it's just kind of a gut feeling

00:49:11   and it is a little bit of a gamble,

00:49:13   but I feel like it's a place where they've made

00:49:15   a real hardware commitment like the Touch Bar

00:49:18   and the software sort of,

00:49:19   they did their first software out the door

00:49:21   to get the basic support for it.

00:49:23   And now we've got the first full software cycle for them to do a better job of supporting it.

00:49:28   So that's my rationale there.

00:49:31   So I want to just go into a little bit of clarification on this,

00:49:36   so we make sure that we cover our bases beforehand.

00:49:39   I would say that for this to count, you can either look at consumer features or developer features.

00:49:45   Like, developer access to the dual camera system in a new way would also count.

00:49:49   I just wanted to like put that out there now.

00:49:51   - Yeah.

00:49:52   - Right, so that we know what that is.

00:49:53   - Something new in the operating system

00:49:56   in terms of taking advantage of the dual cameras

00:50:00   - Mm-hmm.

00:50:01   - on the, currently on the 7 Plus.

00:50:05   - And this feels like a perfect big slide fodder.

00:50:09   You know, they put those big slides up

00:50:10   with little improvements. - Could be.

00:50:12   - Feels like something that could live there, for sure.

00:50:14   I tell you why I said, initially said this was a risk,

00:50:17   and I still stand by that, is this is also prime

00:50:20   for the September event, right?

00:50:23   For them to add new features,

00:50:24   like supposedly because of the new phones.

00:50:27   - Yeah, I just feel like,

00:50:28   I feel like now that there's a device

00:50:31   with dual camera support,

00:50:33   it allows them to announce that being a feature

00:50:35   of the Core OS without having to give,

00:50:38   oh, why would there be dual camera support

00:50:40   when you have no device with two cameras?

00:50:42   Well, now they have a device with two cameras,

00:50:44   so they can just do it.

00:50:45   And everybody will say, oh, this is great for people

00:50:47   who have the 7 Plus.

00:50:50   And the truth is, yes, but it's also gonna be great

00:50:54   for the people who have the new phones.

00:50:56   So yeah, I could go either way on that,

00:50:58   but I feel like there's a good chance that they'll do it

00:51:00   just because they don't have to hide it

00:51:03   from the operating system, right?

00:51:04   There's work that goes into taking a feature

00:51:06   and just like, that's only supported on new hardware,

00:51:09   so you have to sequester it from the OS release

00:51:11   and then drop it in later.

00:51:14   And they don't need to sequester this

00:51:15   because they already have a device with two cameras.

00:51:18   - For my sixth pick, I'm channeling my inner Snell.

00:51:21   - Oh yes, do it.

00:51:24   - I think that, especially Craig Federighi,

00:51:27   although I will not name him in my prediction,

00:51:29   will not be able to resist a Spinal Tap reference

00:51:33   (laughing)

00:51:35   to iOS going to 11.

00:51:38   - You sniped that for me,

00:51:39   I was gonna make that my last pick, but do it.

00:51:41   It is, we're gonna assume it's iOS 11,

00:51:45   we don't know what's gonna happen with Mac OS,

00:51:46   but we're gonna assume it's iOS 11.

00:51:49   And if that's the case, it would be awfully hard

00:51:53   not to have a Spinal Tap reference somewhere in there.

00:51:55   I agree with you.

00:51:57   I think that's a good pick.

00:51:58   I do think it's risky, right?

00:51:59   - It is risky.

00:52:00   - Because you're trying to predict a joke,

00:52:02   basically, on stage.

00:52:03   - But if you're gonna predict a joke

00:52:04   for this entire keynote, it would be that one, right?

00:52:08   - I know, right?

00:52:09   - It goes to 11.

00:52:10   It's gotta be there.

00:52:11   - That's all they need to say, right?

00:52:13   Like, you can brush over that, but you only say it goes to 11 if you're making a Spinal

00:52:18   Tap reference.

00:52:19   - If somebody says it goes to 11, it's done, right?

00:52:23   - 'Cause you wouldn't use that sentence, right?

00:52:25   You wouldn't use that in a sentence.

00:52:27   - No, that's it.

00:52:28   That's it.

00:52:29   And if they do introduce a system-wide dark mode for iOS, then they could say how much

00:52:33   blacker could it be?

00:52:34   And the answer is none more black, but they probably won't.

00:52:37   That would be awesome, though.

00:52:39   - There's many references here, and I think if anyone's gonna do it, Federighi.

00:52:43   would do it. It's probably. But yeah, any direct spinal tap reference made on stage,

00:52:48   you get a point. And I, you know what, I will be happy regardless of you getting one. I

00:52:53   know you will. You win no matter what happens for that. It's true. It's absolutely true.

00:52:59   Round number seven. Oh boy. It just keeps getting harder, Myke. How could this be? I

00:53:04   know. We have so many, but if you're playing to win, it makes it difficult. I'm going...

00:53:10   Oh man. Alright, here we go. I'm gonna do it. I am going to pick the mention of a forthcoming

00:53:24   new Mac Pro.

00:53:27   Ooh, this didn't even get on my shortlist, this one.

00:53:34   It was, uh, it's a gamble, but here's my thought. It's what we've said before when you were

00:53:39   talking about the MacBook Pro update in the fourth round. It's the same kind of

00:53:44   thing. It's like one way to go here in front of these developers is to

00:53:49   acknowledge what's been going on in some way. And they already did the whole

00:53:55   press thing about the Mac Pro, so acknowledging that on stage in some way

00:54:01   is what I'm picking here. I'm not saying they will necessarily show a picture or

00:54:06   or reveal anything new about it. That's not what I'm saying. The way we had it in our

00:54:12   document is "new information/tease" on the new Mac Pro, and that's really the key here,

00:54:18   is they may not have anything to share, because this is a product that is at least six months

00:54:24   away, right? Seven months away. But with this audience, in the context of everything else

00:54:32   doing especially on the Mac side,

00:54:34   I feel like it's not a bad chance that they're gonna say,

00:54:39   and of course next year we'll have a great new Mac Pro

00:54:41   for you as well 'cause we know you want that.

00:54:44   Applause, right?

00:54:44   - Yeah, it works.

00:54:45   - And that's all it needs to be.

00:54:46   That's all it needs to be. - Oh, I agree, yep.

00:54:47   - Is the acknowledgement that there is a new Mac Pro coming,

00:54:50   like they said, on stage in front of the developer community

00:54:55   as a part of this story of their recommitment

00:54:58   to Mac professionals, so yeah.

00:55:00   - So the reason it wasn't make my list

00:55:02   this because I feel that it's more likely that they will have something to say for the

00:55:09   MacBook Pro. If they do that, they don't need to talk about the Mac Pro because they've

00:55:15   done all they need to do. But I agree with you that it is also very likely that they

00:55:19   could just offhandedly mention, "Oh, we already told you about this. You know this

00:55:23   is coming. It's still on track."

00:55:25   It would technically be the first time that an Apple executive has spoken publicly about

00:55:30   the Mac Pro, I believe, right? Everything else has been in that little closed press

00:55:35   session and relayed from them. And this would be like directly to developers who are, as

00:55:40   Apple has said, right, when Apple talks about pro users, they themselves single out developers

00:55:46   as pro users. That's their chance to talk to pro users. It's also possible that they

00:55:51   won't and they'll mention it in the afternoon session, which doesn't count. We don't get

00:55:54   points for that. But I'm willing to take the risk that it will get mentioned as a part

00:56:00   of the context of Apple talking about its commitment to pro users, which I think it

00:56:03   will do.

00:56:04   All right, we're going to make round seven a hardware pre-announcement round.

00:56:11   Okay.

00:56:12   It's the crazy round.

00:56:13   I'm going to go in round seven as the debut or some initial information about a Siri speaker

00:56:21   of some kind.

00:56:22   So this would be a dedicated Siri box.

00:56:24   This was my other choice for this round.

00:56:26   I had them right next to each other and I was flipping a coin about which one I was

00:56:29   going to go with. So the debut or at least an announcement about the Siri speaker.

00:56:35   >> It's an acknowledgment that the product exists. This isn't like all they made a sly

00:56:40   reference that could mean this. It's like no, this is Apple making a direct acknowledgment.

00:56:44   >> They're announcing the product. They may not ship it. It doesn't matter. They're announcing

00:56:49   it. >> I don't think they are shipping it. But

00:56:51   I think this would be the beginning. Because there's only so far that they can take the

00:56:55   the Siri stuff without having to address that this product exists. And if they want this

00:57:00   product to be out of the gate whenever it ships, ready to support third-party applications,

00:57:06   they have to do what Apple has done multiple times and that they give a preview of this

00:57:12   product in advance. Apple do not show products early if it is replacing an existing product,

00:57:19   but they do show products early if it's a new world that they're getting into that they

00:57:22   haven't done before. They did it with the iPhone, they did it with the iPad, they did

00:57:27   it with the watch, and I think that they will do it with the Siri speaker.

00:57:30   BRIAN KARDELL-MORAN>> Like I said, I almost picked this in this round. My hesitation is

00:57:34   only, I mean, I wrote a whole piece of Apple fan fiction, basically, imagining this launch,

00:57:40   so it makes perfect sense to me. It's new Apple hardware, and I do have those thoughts

00:57:44   of they could also hold off on announcing this product and just extol the virtues of

00:57:49   Siri and move on and announce it later. And so it just gives me pause. It could get its

00:57:55   own event between now and September even. Yeah, and the iPad Pro, it's the same thing

00:57:59   I said about the iPad Pro, which is any brand new hardware announcement at WWDC, it gives

00:58:04   me a little bit of pause because it's a gamble. Then again, I almost picked it and would probably

00:58:10   have picked it in the next round. So I think there's a good chance of it happening. It

00:58:14   is a little bit risky. I think making it part of a larger conversation about how important

00:58:18   in Serias, everywhere on all of Apple's platforms, including this new one and how developers

00:58:23   can be involved in developing using SiriKit. Great, right? I mean, I can totally see that

00:58:31   happening if that's something that they can make happen. And this would be a part of it.

00:58:34   So I think it's -- this is a product I wanted for a couple of years, so I hope it happens.

00:58:39   And again, perhaps my Apple's not going to give me what I want feelings are getting in

00:58:43   my way there. But I think that's a good pick.

00:58:46   Okay. Let's say this. Let's go to watchOS.

00:58:57   Ooh, okay.

00:58:59   Have we talked about the watch before?

00:59:01   We're not in this stuff.

00:59:03   The watch has not come up yet.

00:59:05   So I was racking my brain trying to think about what features are on the watchOS platform could be part of a new watchOS version.

00:59:15   And there may not be a new watchOS version,

00:59:18   but let's say that there is,

00:59:19   because Apple likes to do that every year.

00:59:21   And Apple's last version was so huge

00:59:24   and really kind of revised the watchOS

00:59:27   to be way better than it was in the first iteration.

00:59:31   Where do they go from here?

00:59:32   And so I'm gonna make this pick that was in our doc

00:59:34   that I think you actually came up with this concept,

00:59:37   but I think it's the right one

00:59:38   and it's just vague enough for me to pick it.

00:59:40   - I think you're picking my round eight pick too.

00:59:42   - And cover it up.

00:59:43   Oh, is this "Why Giraffes are Great," Myke?

00:59:44   'cause you snipe other people's pics.

00:59:46   You did to me, now I'm doing it right back to you.

00:59:48   I'm going to predict that Apple will announce

00:59:51   as a part of watchOS a new health focused watch app

00:59:56   from Apple that will be part of watchOS.

01:00:01   What will it do?

01:00:03   What part of health will it be focused on?

01:00:05   - Doesn't matter. - I don't know.

01:00:06   But they're gonna lean into the health thing

01:00:08   and say, we invented this whole new thing

01:00:09   that'll monitor your eye blinks or your sleep

01:00:13   or the size of your toenails or whatever.

01:00:16   I don't know what it's gonna be.

01:00:18   Or meditation in some way, or I don't know.

01:00:21   Again, I don't know, but I feel like it's a pretty good bet

01:00:25   that when they're making a pitch

01:00:26   for a new version of watchOS,

01:00:27   that one of the things they do is,

01:00:28   we have this whole new health app that we've,

01:00:31   health-based something that we've added to watchOS

01:00:35   because health is a huge focus for them.

01:00:37   So I feel like that's not the most exciting

01:00:40   and it's a little bit obvious,

01:00:41   but also I feel like it's got a good chance of happening.

01:00:45   - It's the easy thing to do for watchOS

01:00:49   is to add these apps.

01:00:51   I mean, if I was gonna put money on it,

01:00:52   and this was another pick in the document,

01:00:55   but I don't think either of us are gonna go for it now,

01:00:57   sleep tracking, I reckon that will be what they do.

01:01:01   - That sleep tracking could be,

01:01:04   and the rationale there is that the watch series two

01:01:11   has enough battery that you can sleep with it, and then when you take a shower, you charge

01:01:17   it and you can get through your day, right? We've seen that David Smith has proven that

01:01:21   to be the case. We can see it. It can happen. It also augurs, perhaps, for a future Apple

01:01:28   Watch that is forthcoming that has even better battery life. Again, they like to do that,

01:01:35   but they don't need to do that. They can release that feature now and make it plausibly about

01:01:40   the series too, even if they do have some other product coming that would do a better

01:01:45   job of it.

01:01:46   Alright, for number eight, I'm gonna go with a similar vein, right? Like if we're imagining

01:01:53   what could they add to tvOS, and this is in a similar vein to some of your other picks

01:01:57   earlier, like what features exist on other platforms that should naturally extend to

01:02:03   this platform, and so for tvOS, I would say picture-in-picture, something that could appear

01:02:09   on the system. I mean, tvOS is all about video, it's all about watching video, and it's the

01:02:15   only Apple platform that doesn't have a picture-in-picture, right? iOS has it on the iPad, Mac OS has

01:02:22   it, but we don't have it on tvOS.

01:02:24   Yeah, you're watching a video and you go back into the UI and it goes, "Okay, I guess I

01:02:30   better stop that video from playing." Like, really?

01:02:34   Not always what you want to happen, right?

01:02:35   Not always what you want.

01:02:37   And there are ways I could see it, right?

01:02:38   This picture-in-picture could be two side-by-side streams or it could be like how it pops down

01:02:42   into the corner like we see on iOS or on the Mac.

01:02:48   But picture-in-picture is something that exists on televisions, right?

01:02:52   Like it is a thing that you can do and I think that tvOS is lacking this feature right now.

01:02:56   I imagine sports is a big win for this, right?

01:03:00   I think a lot of people do that with sport games.

01:03:02   They'll watch maybe two side-by-side.

01:03:04   good. Yeah, and apps can support that now, but the idea, I think when Joe Steele wrote

01:03:10   about this in his blog, he was also especially thinking of the ability to do picture-in-picture

01:03:13   where you're navigating through the interface while a video is playing, and you can't do

01:03:20   that on Apple TV. You can't hit the menu button and have the video keep playing while you

01:03:24   go looking around for something else, which, like, if you've got a live TV service or something,

01:03:28   I do that all the time on my TiVo. My TiVo has this feature where when I'm in the menu,

01:03:32   I can have the video still playing.

01:03:34   I don't lose what I'm watching while I'm looking

01:03:36   to set a recording or download something or open an app.

01:03:40   I don't lose that while I'm in those menus.

01:03:43   And on tvOS, it is a unitasker.

01:03:45   When you're out of an app, it's gone.

01:03:47   So I could see this.

01:03:49   My faith in Apple to support a feature like this is low.

01:03:53   I don't think this is gonna happen,

01:03:54   but it's not a bad wishlist item.

01:03:58   So we will see.

01:04:00   Alright, pick 9. Well, the easiest way to describe pick 9 for me is a Hoy computer.

01:04:10   Because what I'm picking is a new feature, another new feature in Siri for Mac, which

01:04:17   is the ability to trigger it by voice. Again, a little outlandish. Apple explained last

01:04:23   fall why they, and last summer, why they thought you didn't need to trigger Siri on a Mac,

01:04:29   'cause you could hold down a keyboard shortcut to do it.

01:04:32   And I think about that every time I try to remember

01:04:34   what the keyboard shortcut is for Siri on my Mac.

01:04:38   Is it Command + Shift?

01:04:39   Is it Option + Shift?

01:04:41   Is it Command + Shift + Option + Space?

01:04:45   I just, and seriously,

01:04:47   I have so many space bar related shortcuts

01:04:49   that I forget which one is Siri.

01:04:51   And I got, my computer's got a microphone.

01:04:55   I've got an extra microphone here for podcasting too.

01:04:58   So it's like, again, the interaction everywhere else is a Hoy telephone. So why not on the

01:05:06   Mac? So I think it's worth throwing it in as another, again, another Mac OS feature

01:05:12   that syncs it up to other Apple platforms.

01:05:14   I'm struggling for number nine. I don't know whether to go hardware or software. I have

01:05:19   a lot of hardware stuff left in my draft list, like my pre-pick list, right, of things that

01:05:26   I think that the most likely to happen, but I feel like I'm leaning too much on the hardware

01:05:32   for this. So I think I'm going to move away from it. And I'm going to go with something

01:05:39   that I feel like will happen one day, and this could be the day. And there have been

01:05:45   some things that have led to me thinking this, some PR changes, some marketing changes that

01:05:54   have led to me thinking this.

01:05:56   And it is that my pick number nine

01:05:58   is that we may finally see the breakup of iTunes.

01:06:01   - Ooh, again, there's some Wishcasting going on there, but.

01:06:05   - I know.

01:06:06   But more than other years, there is at least a signal for it

01:06:10   which is that the podcast's team, the podcast group

01:06:13   is no longer called iTunes Podcast,

01:06:15   it's now called Apple Podcasts,

01:06:16   which is how it's called on iOS.

01:06:18   So they could purely have just renamed it

01:06:21   because the percentages for listening

01:06:23   and browsing on iOS to the Mac have shifted so significantly over time that there's no

01:06:27   point tying it to iTunes anymore. But this also could be the time to break it up. I mean,

01:06:33   Apple Music is a thing. I expect quite a lot of people listen to Apple Music on their Mac

01:06:39   and it might be a time to break Apple Music outside of iTunes. The iTunes could still

01:06:44   exist but some of the stuff that lives in iTunes today could get moved out. And this

01:06:49   This is one of those things where it feels like this would take pretty significant engineering

01:06:55   but could be something that you put people that work on the Macintosh and Mac OS on when

01:07:02   there are less new features to put into Mac OS.

01:07:06   So this could be one of those things that everyone has wanted it for a while but they

01:07:09   haven't taken some time with it and now they are deciding to do it because it would be

01:07:14   something that I think a lot of people want and could help Apple with how the Mac OS continues

01:07:19   get pushed. I wish for it to happen. It would be a great thing for the Mac if

01:07:23   the banner feature of the next version of Mac OS was a new music Apple

01:07:31   like I'm an Apple Music subscriber and I listen on my Mac. I would really love a

01:07:35   better music app that is focused on music than the one that I've got which

01:07:39   is this kind of shambling mess that is iTunes. So great. I hope it happens. It

01:07:44   should have happened a long time ago. It syncs up with the other platforms which

01:07:47   is a constant theme with Apple. The only problem is that they've had a lot of opportunity to

01:07:54   sync it up on the Mac and they haven't bothered. So will they bother now? I hope they will.

01:07:59   I hope they will. I don't know.

01:08:02   Jason Snow, your tenth and final pick for the WWDC 2017 draft.

01:08:09   Oh, it's so hard, Myke. It's so hard to choose these lower level ones. I got a bunch that

01:08:17   that I could choose.

01:08:18   I was gonna go with the wacky one

01:08:20   of the Spinal Tap reference,

01:08:21   but you took that one from me.

01:08:24   I've got a wish casting one

01:08:26   that I could throw out there and would be fun,

01:08:28   but it's probably not gonna happen,

01:08:29   so it loses me a point.

01:08:31   What to do, what to do.

01:08:34   Jeez.

01:08:36   Let's...

01:08:39   Okay, I'm gonna do it.

01:08:42   I'm gonna do it.

01:08:43   Here we go.

01:08:44   It wasn't even on my list,

01:08:45   to put it in in here anyway because I want it to happen and it this is the

01:08:51   time for it to happen if it doesn't happen now I think it's never going to

01:08:55   happen so I'm going to double down on your spinal tap reference mic oh okay

01:09:01   and I'm going to predict that this fall is all about 11 iOS 11 Mac OS 11 and

01:09:10   and they move in lockstep from here.

01:09:12   Goodbye, we said goodbye to the X.

01:09:15   Now it's time to say goodbye to OS X

01:09:18   and move on because now the name of it is not OS X,

01:09:22   the name of it is macOS and that frees it from version 10.

01:09:26   This would also mean goodbye to California place names.

01:09:30   Again, is it gonna happen?

01:09:32   Probably not, but I want it to happen.

01:09:34   I think it would be cool.

01:09:35   And then going forward, instead of having,

01:09:36   Well, most of our operating systems are numbers.

01:09:40   And then there's this weird one

01:09:41   that is the name of a place.

01:09:43   This could be the year.

01:09:44   This is their last chance in some ways, right?

01:09:47   Unless they wanna be totally out of sync with iOS

01:09:50   to just move them in lockstep and say,

01:09:52   "This year, it's iOS 11, macOS 11, we're done."

01:09:55   - Yeah, if macOS is ever gonna get the 11 number,

01:09:59   this is the time it would get it.

01:10:01   Otherwise, why ever bother?

01:10:03   - Otherwise it will be version 10 point whatever

01:10:05   for literally forever. This is the last chance for this to happen and so I'm gonna pick it.

01:10:11   I don't know if I really think it'll happen but I don't think it is any less likely than any of the

01:10:16   other things that I had here that I was gonna pick and so I'm gonna pick it just because I'm the guy

01:10:20   who keeps writing about how they should get rid of the X and they should call it 11 and they should

01:10:25   get off this 10-point X train and leave it behind and I'm gonna just go with that. I'm gonna be

01:10:32   myself here. I'm gonna be that person who cares about this thing that nobody cares

01:10:36   about and pick it. You have given me the ability to pick my wild card.

01:10:44   Ooh. Something that I have been... that I will continue to pick probably every

01:10:49   year until it happens, because I believe one year it will happen. It's the Red Baron. Curse your Red Baron,

01:10:55   you'll get him eventually. Xcode for iPad. Oh, see, that was on my list of things was

01:11:01   some improvement in developing software on the iPad because that's a WWDC event

01:11:08   if there ever was one and we got Swift Playgrounds last year so do you

01:11:13   want to say Xcode for iPad? I'll actually give ability to develop apps on iPad to you.

01:11:19   What about iPad development tools?

01:11:22   Enhanced iPad development tools?

01:11:25   Enhanced iPad development tools. We'll go with that.

01:11:28   I'll give you that.

01:11:29   In case they don't call it Xcode, right?

01:11:31   - I don't, right, I don't want it to cover improvements

01:11:34   to Swift Playgrounds for learning.

01:11:36   I want it to be that what you're saying is

01:11:39   developers will be able to make some kind of app,

01:11:43   like real app, on an iPad.

01:11:46   - That's what I'm going with.

01:11:47   - Okay, just to be clear, we can play this tape back

01:11:50   when they announce something that's right

01:11:53   in the gray area here, we can play this tape back.

01:11:56   What you're meaning is you could theoretically develop

01:11:59   an app and submit it to the App Store from the iPad.

01:12:01   So, it's difficult for me to go that far, right? Let me see if I can try and give it

01:12:06   a different framing slightly. Okay.

01:12:09   That this is the beginning of professional development for Apple's App Store on the

01:12:15   iPad. I don't know if they would go from 0 to 100, right? That you would be able to

01:12:21   straight up submit to the App Store from this. So, would this be more like you could sync

01:12:25   You could work on your code.

01:12:27   - Yeah, then maybe you could take a project.

01:12:28   - Your iOS code on an iPad from your Mac and back.

01:12:32   - But you still need to build on the Mac.

01:12:34   So this isn't Swift Playgrounds, this isn't education.

01:12:39   This is people taking their development work away.

01:12:43   But it's like it is a--

01:12:43   - All right, so it's iPad tools for developers.

01:12:48   - There we go. - Not education.

01:12:50   Whether or not you can build a final app,

01:12:52   it's moving in that direction.

01:12:54   iPad development tools. And the differentiator is it's not sold as an education tool. It's

01:12:59   sold as a "no, this is actually for real developers." We're going to call it "iPad development

01:13:03   tools", Jason. Great. I feel like it's going to happen eventually. And again, right, so

01:13:08   it absolutely is. Let's imagine that this is the WWDC that I want. This is the right

01:13:13   one to do it. Like if this is one where they have a new iPad Pro and they take the next

01:13:18   big step in iOS for the iPad, this is another great way to sell this platform to the people

01:13:25   in the audience. We want you to make apps for this and now you can make apps for this

01:13:31   on this. It's like obviously they will use far better words than that, but that's the

01:13:38   story in my mind that I hope that Apple tell one day. We have made this product so much

01:13:43   better and we believe in it so much you can now do your work on it. It is a professional

01:13:49   tool for you now, not just creative people, right? Not just artists.

01:13:54   It would be a great part of the story. The only, from a messaging standpoint, totally,

01:13:59   I totally follow you. The challenge is, of course, can they do it?

01:14:03   Yeah, I don't know. Are they ready to do that?

01:14:04   Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either.

01:14:07   But I feel like one day, one day it's extremely likely, very, very likely, more likely than

01:14:12   not that they will one day do this?

01:14:15   I put this in the same category as a lot of the stuff that I talked about about the iPad,

01:14:19   which is at some point why do you have the iPad? Like if the end goal of the iPad is

01:14:24   not to be a professional tool, why do you even have the iPad Pro? Why are you, you know,

01:14:34   at some point Apple needs to either say yes the future is the iPad, which they've been

01:14:38   saying, the future is the iPad and that includes for professionals. And the Mac is essentially

01:14:43   like it's still there and people love it and it'll still be there, but we are doing this

01:14:46   thing with the iPad. If they don't have development tools are never coming to the iPad, then the

01:14:51   iPad will never be a replacement for the Mac in any way, at which point I could argue at

01:14:57   some point you're just going to have to give up.

01:14:58   Because I guess it could be argued that a maturity point for a computing device is that

01:15:05   applications for itself can be developed on it.

01:15:07   That is a mark of maturity for a platform.

01:15:11   And if Apple always intends for the iPad software to be made on a Mac, it's never going to be

01:15:18   the future of computing, right?

01:15:20   Because it's always going to be held or chained or in lockstep in some way to another platform.

01:15:26   And I would argue the Mac is being limited by the fact that the iPad exists because Apple

01:15:30   believes the iPad is the future and so the Mac is being kept in its existing state and

01:15:36   not being morphed and changed and turned into something stranger with touch and

01:15:41   all those things like what Microsoft is doing with Windows right and Microsoft

01:15:44   has to do that they don't have a successful mobile operating system so

01:15:48   they are transmogrifying windows into something different.

01:15:50   Apple's not doing that with the Mac and one of the reasons it's not doing that

01:15:53   with the Mac is because it's got iOS to do that but if it doesn't do that with

01:15:57   iOS either then what is it doing and what is the strategy there?

01:16:02   I have a hard time, I feel like this is a challenge of Apple, this is one of their supreme

01:16:07   challenges right now, is thinking of the future and how they get their products there. And

01:16:13   the risk is that they will do a little bit on the Mac and a little bit on the iPad and

01:16:17   focus most of the energy on the iPhone, which is where the money is, and that's fine, except

01:16:22   it does lead to a point where maybe all you have is the iPhone.

01:16:25   Alright, Jason, we did it. We did it, we've got our draft, it's set. So you will be able

01:16:30   to play along with us next Monday on June the 5th along with the keynote you'll be able

01:16:40   to play along there's a link in the show notes to our scorecard so you'll be able to pull

01:16:45   this up on your device you can print it out whatever you want to do and you can tick off

01:16:50   and score with us and then next week on the show we will be talking about what Apple has

01:16:55   done at WWDC and we will be talking about who the winner is to the second annual upgrade

01:17:02   WWDC draft. Now I know that we both had longer lists right than our ten so I want to take

01:17:09   a break and then I want to come back and talk about some things some potential other things

01:17:13   that we thought could happen but didn't make our top ten here. Take a moment to thank Mack

01:17:19   Walden for supporting this week's show. They make the most comfortable underwear, socks,

01:17:25   shirts, undershirts, hoodies, and sweatpants that you'll ever wear. And as I ramp up for

01:17:30   a long haul flight, I think this may be the single longest flight I have ever taken, 11

01:17:35   hours, I am extremely excited and pleased that I will be able to deck myself out in

01:17:41   Macworld and gear as I do. And I am, I will get all of my Macworld and clothing ready.

01:17:46   Are you going direct? Direct. Have you never gone direct to the west coast before? I have,

01:17:53   But I don't think that San Francisco takes 11 hours. I think it was around 10.

01:17:57   Alright.

01:17:58   So yeah, so I believe, I believe that this is even-

01:18:01   Yeah, it's a little further south.

01:18:03   Well-

01:18:04   It's the champion.

01:18:05   Whatever it is, it's a long flight. Whether it's the longest I've taken or not, it's a

01:18:08   long old flight. 11 hours takes a long time. And when I'm sitting on that plane for 11

01:18:13   hours, I want to be wearing my MacWarden socks, my MacWarden underwear, and my MacWarden sweatpants,

01:18:19   because I'm going to be comfortable. I'm going to be comfortable because MacWarden's clothes

01:18:23   are made with premium fabrics, they put meticulous attention to detail with them and that is

01:18:28   why their undershirts stay tucked, their socks stay up and their waistbands don't roll. Premium

01:18:33   cotton blended with natural fibres is what makes up all of this clothing. Macworld have

01:18:39   a fantastic website as well which I have used. You go in there and you can get things very

01:18:43   quickly. You just go in, you choose what you want, they add discounts the more that you

01:18:48   buy and you see that along the top of the website so you know you're going to get a

01:18:50   a great deal. They don't want to waste your time. You get in and out as quickly as possible

01:18:54   and they will mail you your lovely new clothing. And if for whatever reason you don't like

01:18:59   it, you can send it back to them and you'll get a refund. Macworlden want you to be comfortable

01:19:04   and if you don't like what they send you, just send it back. They'll refund you, no

01:19:08   questions asked. Macworlden's clothing, their underwear, their socks and their shirts, they

01:19:13   look good and they perform well. And for me, it is the only choice for me when I'm travelling

01:19:18   now. Mac Wilden all the way. Listeners of this show can get 20% off at macwilden.com.

01:19:24   That's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N dot com with the code upgrade. Thank you so much to Mac Wilden

01:19:29   for their support of this show and relay FM. So Jason, did you have anything else on your

01:19:34   list that you didn't get to talk about? Oh boy. I did. I did. One of the ones that I

01:19:43   I thought about doing at the end that was kind of wacky is augmented reality on iPhone.

01:19:50   And the idea there is not that they would announce any augmented reality hardware, but

01:19:55   they would start getting us used to the idea of augmented reality features built into the

01:20:00   operating system.

01:20:01   This is similar to like the Google Lens stuff that we saw at Google IO a couple weeks ago.

01:20:06   So the idea of you hold up your phone and you get a, you know, it recognizes things

01:20:11   that it's looking at or you get a heads-up display of some kind. It's that

01:20:15   kind of a feature that would be currently built into the existing camera

01:20:20   app probably and do automatic things. If you think about like if you ever scanned

01:20:26   an iTunes gift card right and it like it notes that the card is in

01:20:31   frame and reads the numbers and turns them into numbers and letters on the

01:20:35   screen and then animates and stuff happens right. It's recognized the

01:20:38   content of the photo, gotten what it wants, and it does a little whizzy thing

01:20:42   to tell you it's scanned it. That sort of behavior in the base operating

01:20:49   system as a way to get people used to the idea that Apple is working on a

01:20:53   bunch of image recognition technology, whether it's street signs or being able

01:20:58   to pull up Yelp reviews based on pointing at the name of a restaurant

01:21:03   and when you're on the street or I don't know what the demo would be, but some

01:21:08   kind of augmented reality thing. So that was on my list as one that I almost picked at

01:21:13   the end. Again, it's kind of a shot in the dark, but if they truly are researching AR

01:21:17   and VR stuff, one way to get it out there sooner and test the technology is to put it

01:21:22   in your iPhone.

01:21:24   I struggled this year to think of iPhone-focused iOS features, like specific iPhone features.

01:21:30   This was one of the ones that I was thinking of as well because Apple has spoken about

01:21:35   Tim Cook talks about it, they talk about the virtues of AR over VR, and I think they were

01:21:40   very excited by Pokemon Go.

01:21:43   And I think that really continued to spearhead inside of Apple the idea of AR because it's

01:21:48   something that can be in the devices, it doesn't lock us off from the world.

01:21:51   I think that is a world that they are going to, whether we see it at WWDC this year, next

01:21:56   year, or in an iPhone event at some point.

01:21:58   I also agree with you.

01:21:59   Like, I think this is something that seems very likely.

01:22:02   The other one that I had on my list that was in the queue to possibly be picked was the

01:22:07   MacBook Air update.

01:22:09   Yep.

01:22:10   What about the MacBook?

01:22:11   Just the MacBook Air?

01:22:12   Well, so I was going to pick the MacBook Air update because I feel like that kind of makes

01:22:16   sense to me, this rumor that there's just going to be a speed bump to the MacBook Air,

01:22:20   that they're not going to stop selling it because it's $9.99 and they want to have a

01:22:23   laptop at $9.99, it sells well, and the least they could do is just put in the new Intel

01:22:28   processors so it's not two-year-old processors and keep selling it for $9.99

01:22:32   and I think that is realistic as a prediction I don't believe it's

01:22:39   realistic that they will trumpet it on stage that feels like the MacBook Air in

01:22:45   general like a product that exists but Apple doesn't acknowledge and so I

01:22:50   didn't pick it for that reason the MacBook I thought about picking as well

01:22:54   a revised MacBook. That's also one of those things where I think if they

01:22:59   truly revise the MacBook, they could give it a speed bump, but it's not a

01:23:02   pro product, so giving a MacBook a speed bump of, you know, it's a faster M3

01:23:08   processor on stage, I don't think there's a great likelihood that they would

01:23:13   just do that. And if they're going to really do like changes to the MacBook, I

01:23:17   feel like that's a different event. Again, it's not a pro product. They could do

01:23:20   that at some other event later this year or even with press release if it came to that.

01:23:26   So it seemed less plausible to me that this would be a detailed on stage at the WWDC keynote

01:23:33   kind of thing. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but it seemed lower probability to me. The

01:23:37   MacBook Pro seemed the one that was the highest and you picked it because of that because

01:23:40   it speaks to that audience.

01:23:42   Yeah, yeah. I was struggling to think about the Macs, like the other two Macs. They were

01:23:49   in my list but I wasn't sure about them because I feel like over the other hardware that we

01:23:54   mentioned or the professional focused stuff that we mentioned, I believed that they could

01:24:00   just put the MacBook and the MacBook Air on the website, right? That they could actually

01:24:06   do it but they could just put it on the website, right? Just with the new badge, right? It's

01:24:11   not necessary to have those in there for this time. I also kind of went with two software

01:24:17   features as well. Some maybe revised file structure for iOS in some way, right? That

01:24:25   we, there could be some kind of finder or some kind of new iCloud drive application

01:24:33   in some way, right? That could...

01:24:35   Yeah, that was the, you know, and Federico did an app called Finder and people, I saw

01:24:41   a bunch of people saying, "Oh, this old, making it like the old Mac is not the right way to

01:24:46   I was like, well, they totally missed it, right?

01:24:50   The idea there is just give us an app

01:24:52   and let that be a way in.

01:24:56   I mean, iCloud Drive is already that app.

01:24:58   There's already an iCloud Drive app

01:25:00   and it's hidden by default.

01:25:02   And then it says, would you like the iCloud Drive app?

01:25:04   At which point you're browsing your iCloud Drive,

01:25:06   which is synced locally.

01:25:07   It would not take a lot for that to become a Drive app

01:25:10   or just call it iCloud Drive,

01:25:11   but also have it have access to other storage things

01:25:15   that you add like Dropbox or an inserted hard drive

01:25:18   or memory card or something like that.

01:25:19   Like they could do that and then it's,

01:25:22   yeah, it's file management, but it's file management

01:25:24   that is in an iPad style interface

01:25:26   or an iOS kind of interface and metaphor

01:25:29   and it's accessible from everywhere from all apps.

01:25:32   I think if you're making pro products,

01:25:35   you need something like that.

01:25:37   It's not a give up and if you think it's a give up,

01:25:39   they already gave up because iCloud Drive is already that.

01:25:42   Like with iOS 9 maybe,

01:25:44   I don't even think it was last year, was it last year or two years ago, when they basically

01:25:48   said, and this was like one of those last Steve Jobs, Scott Forstall things that I think

01:25:52   crumbled, which was, "Alright, yeah, iCloud Drive, you can just browse it." Like, we give

01:25:56   up. They already gave up, they already relented. So now the idea is spread that so it reaches

01:26:02   other storage devices and let everybody have access to it. And lots of people won't need

01:26:07   it, but if you're moving files around, and we still need to do that in a way that is

01:26:12   is not the old iOS way of handling it.

01:26:17   Being able to do that would be great.

01:26:19   - So we will see, we'll see how we did.

01:26:21   - We'll see, yeah.

01:26:23   I mean, that's the, I put Mac Mini update

01:26:26   in our list of things that we could have picked.

01:26:28   Ha ha ha ha.

01:26:29   Yeah, again, like with the MacBook Air,

01:26:32   they could do a Mac Mini update.

01:26:34   Are they gonna mention it on stage?

01:26:35   Eh, no.

01:26:36   - Probably not.

01:26:37   - No, no.

01:26:38   - All right, Jason, I have a couple

01:26:39   of #askupgrade questions.

01:26:41   Yeah, these are like WWDC themed Ask of Great Questions.

01:26:45   Liam asks, "Do you think that iOS 11 could allow for two instances of the same application

01:26:50   to be open in Split View?"

01:26:51   You know, Safari kind of does that now, right?

01:26:56   And it's an interesting proof of concept.

01:26:59   I think it's more likely that Apple would extend what they did with Safari and make

01:27:08   that an option for app developers. Whether it's technically a second instance or whether

01:27:15   it's just a way for app developers to more easily support split view within their app,

01:27:23   but I'd love to see it. I'd love to see that be a tool that Apple gives to everybody to

01:27:27   make it easier for them to say, "Yeah, I'm using Microsoft Word, I want two docs side

01:27:31   by side."

01:27:32   I do this with Google Docs all the time. I would love to be able to have two Google Docs

01:27:35   side by side but I can't. You know, this could just be an idea of tabbed interfaces in some

01:27:39   way. I think that would be really interesting to see and I hope that they would.

01:27:44   I use this Safari thing a lot and it's very useful when I'm posting podcasts from iOS

01:27:50   actually, or blog posts. I've got the CMS open on one side of the screen and I've got

01:27:55   a webpage open on the other, either that I'm previewing or that I'm pulling links from

01:27:59   because I want to link to an article somewhere. I do that all the time and it's really useful

01:28:05   And then I get another apps and I think,

01:28:07   "Can I do this here?"

01:28:08   And I can't.

01:28:09   So I would love to see that.

01:28:11   - And Brent asked,

01:28:13   "Do you think Apple would make another week

01:28:15   "before WWDC announcement this year?

01:28:17   "And if so, what could it be?"

01:28:18   So, cast your mind back to last year.

01:28:21   - Hi everybody who's listening to this.

01:28:22   Have they?

01:28:23   (laughs)

01:28:24   - Yeah, we'll see.

01:28:25   I mean, they may have done or we're recording.

01:28:27   But last year you remember that Apple made

01:28:29   a big announcement before that they were changing

01:28:31   some of the App Store business pricing stuff, right?

01:28:33   So they were changing, adding subscriptions

01:28:35   and changing the percentages for people

01:28:37   that had long renewing subscriptions and stuff like that.

01:28:41   I believe that if Apple have a thing

01:28:44   that they wanna talk about, which is of that ilk,

01:28:47   they'll do it again and they'll probably do it tomorrow

01:28:50   as we record this.

01:28:51   - I think somebody lost a point last year

01:28:53   because they announced it beforehand

01:28:54   and then didn't mention it in the keynote.

01:28:56   - I think it was me, I think it was me.

01:28:58   - I would go further and say,

01:29:00   I think if you've got a bunch of speed bumps to max

01:29:04   and you're not gonna have room for them in the keynote,

01:29:07   you might even announce those

01:29:08   because then people will go in with a good vibe

01:29:10   and you're taking advantage of the pre-event buzz

01:29:13   by feeding it some actual information.

01:29:14   I think it's not a bad strategy to get it out front.

01:29:17   If you've got stuff you know that you're ditching

01:29:19   from the keynote rundown

01:29:20   'cause Apple's very disciplined about those keynotes.

01:29:22   They don't run over and they throw stuff out as they go.

01:29:27   And I've talked to people who've worked on them

01:29:28   they'll say, "Yep, the first draft of that had 300 slides and it timed in at three

01:29:32   and a half hours and guess what happened? They cut an hour and a half out and they

01:29:36   pulled out a bunch of stuff and they didn't announce some products on stage."

01:29:39   And so if you're going to do that and you know now that you're already gonna not

01:29:42   bother with that MacBook Air and MacBook Pro speed bump, you're not gonna call it

01:29:48   out because you just don't have time. Maybe a press release on Tuesday the

01:29:52   30th would be a way to do it. So it wouldn't surprise me. It's not a bad

01:29:57   bad approach, I think. Especially, and if there's something controversial, like you

01:30:01   said, something that people are going to be discussing and chewing over and all that,

01:30:05   let them do it before they show up and don't make it overshadow your event.

01:30:08   All the good stuff. Yeah.

01:30:11   Alright, so a couple of notes about WWDC next week. So we're both going to be in town, I'm

01:30:17   going to be there all week, I believe you're going to be there for a portion of the week.

01:30:20   Yeah, well I mean, I have a hotel for a couple of nights, but I can also drive down there,

01:30:24   So that's the beauty of it, is that I'll definitely be there all day Monday and Tuesday, and then

01:30:29   I'm leaving myself open to come back other days if there's stuff going on.

01:30:34   So yeah, I'll be around.

01:30:35   So if you see Vimeo, Jason, and around San Jose, please come over and say hi.

01:30:39   We'd love to know what you're excited about from the week.

01:30:41   We'd love to talk to the Upgradients.

01:30:44   We may have stickers.

01:30:45   We may have stickers.

01:30:47   And I want to give everybody a reminder that, you know, we spoke about this last time, that

01:30:52   The Relay FM meetup that we're hosting in the Quilt and Textiles Museum has been sold

01:30:57   out for a while, but we've teamed up with the AppCamp for Girls benefit, which is happening

01:31:02   on June 7th at 7pm at the City National Civic.

01:31:05   They're hosting a big event there to benefit AppCamp for Girls, and we're going to be having

01:31:09   a Relay FM meetup inside of that event.

01:31:12   So if you want to come and say hi, please get a ticket.

01:31:15   You'll also be supporting a great cause, and you can come and hang out.

01:31:20   And that's my plan is to be there at that event.

01:31:23   I'm not 100% on that because I don't have a hotel room, so I've got to drive down on

01:31:26   Wednesday.

01:31:27   But my plan is to drive down on Wednesday and go to that event.

01:31:29   Awesome.

01:31:30   So you'll be able to see me and a few other Real AFM hosts and maybe even a wild snail

01:31:36   as well may appear.

01:31:38   It could be.

01:31:39   It could be.

01:31:40   All right, so here we go, Jason.

01:31:43   Here we go.

01:31:44   I know.

01:31:45   This is the beginning of a few very exciting weeks.

01:31:47   I do feel I'm very excited.

01:31:49   I'm very excited.

01:31:50   I'm excited to San Jose because that's going to be a big change.

01:31:53   I'm excited to see what Apple's been up to.

01:31:56   We spoke about this a bunch, right? They have been quiet.

01:31:59   And could that quiet mean huge WWDC?

01:32:02   We'll see.

01:32:04   We could. And even if it's not huge in the surprising ways,

01:32:07   the fact is, and this is something that, this is a good way to end this episode,

01:32:10   let's keep in mind, this is where Apple sets where it's going.

01:32:13   This is the next year.

01:32:15   This is the start, I think you said this last time,

01:32:18   start of Apple's year. What we're looking at is where the platforms are all going

01:32:22   this fall. We're going to spend the whole summer digging through what's new,

01:32:25   looking at the betas and all of that. But come fall, this is the stuff that gets

01:32:29   deployed to everybody's devices. These are the features we're going to be using.

01:32:32   This is Apple setting the table for discussion. This is the big thing. Because

01:32:37   the platforms, you know, the hardware is important. New hardware is always

01:32:39   important. People get excited about it. But underlying all of it are these are

01:32:43   the software platforms, the operating systems,

01:32:46   the whole interaction across the ecosystem.

01:32:49   And that all starts with this event

01:32:53   and the developers who are listening to what's at this event

01:32:56   who write your third-party software that you like,

01:32:58   the stuff that's outside of Apple, it also starts.

01:33:00   So it's all really kicking off next week.

01:33:03   So happy new year, time to get excited.

01:33:06   And we'll be back on Monday,

01:33:10   a few hours later than we normally record,

01:33:11   because if we recorded at the normal time,

01:33:13   I would literally be recording while waiting in line

01:33:16   to go in to the keynote.

01:33:17   - Seems like a great time.

01:33:19   - We will be in person yet again.

01:33:21   - Yet again. - To do an upgrade.

01:33:23   - All right, if you wanna find our show notes for this week,

01:33:26   including where you'll be able to download your scorecard,

01:33:29   go to relay.fm/upgrades/143.

01:33:33   If you wanna find Jason online, he's on Twitter,

01:33:35   he's @jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:33:38   Jason, will you be providing live coverage of the event?

01:33:41   and if so, where should people follow along with that?

01:33:43   - In some form, Six Colors Event is the Twitter account

01:33:47   that will probably have a bunch of stuff on it

01:33:50   and at sixcolors.com, of course.

01:33:52   - You can find me online, I'll be @imyke.

01:33:55   So here we go.

01:34:01   We'll see you next time, everybody.

01:34:02   Say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:34:04   - Ahoy, computer!

01:34:05   [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:34:08   [ Music ]