0:00:00(Music)
0:00:15From your friends at Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 75.
0:00:19This week's show is brought to you by Casper, Fresh Brooks, and Mail Route.
0:00:23My name is Steven Hackett and I'm joined by the man perched high above San Francisco,
0:00:28Mr. Jason Snow.
0:00:29That's not how my geography works.
0:00:31Hi, you're not Myke Hurley.
0:00:33What happened, Stephen Hackett?
0:00:34You're my co-host for the Liftoff podcast.
0:00:36Are we talking about space today,
0:00:37or are we talking about computers and stuff?
0:00:39- I think we're talking about computers and stuff.
0:00:40Myke Hurley is at home sick in bed.
0:00:44- Yeah, that's it.
0:00:46I think he's feeling a little bit better,
0:00:47but the problem is he sent me an email the other day.
0:00:50The problem is that he is a professional podcasters,
0:00:52and he needs to use his voice for that.
0:00:54And we talked about this on a past show,
0:00:56this idea that you almost,
0:00:57when you go to conferences and things,
0:00:59You almost need to protect your voice like you are a singer or something because you
0:01:02are a person who uses your voice to make a living. So although Myke is feeling better,
0:01:07his voice is not great. He did a recording session over the weekend. I mean, his voice
0:01:11isn't that great to begin with, let's just be honest here. Hi, Myke! But over the
0:01:18weekend he did a cortex with Gray and he said by the end of it his voice was really rough
0:01:22and he was not going to—he knew that it would be a problem for today. So we broke
0:01:28broke the glass on the emergency backup post, and thank you for being here.
0:01:31- I appreciate you finally letting me out of that little glass container you guys have
0:01:36kept me in for a year and a half.
0:01:37- It's oxygenated, what is your problem? You can't breathe, it's fine. You and Scott Baio
0:01:43are in, that was a Super Bowl ad callback. Anyway, did you watch the Super Bowl?
0:01:49- No.
0:01:50- All right, good talk. Good talk, I'm glad we, I did, on Twitter, it's fascinating during
0:01:55the sports stuff, how people in our community, our kind of nerdy computer community, they're
0:02:01the people who are sports fans and the people who are not. And I definitely hear from a
0:02:03lot of the ones who are not who say they are surprised because in their world, the people
0:02:10were either sports fans or they were like nerds, but they were not both. And the fact
0:02:16is lots of people, I'm all over the map. I'm a mess. I like sports and I like computers
0:02:23I like movies and TV shows. I like lots of things, is what I'm saying. So don't try to
0:02:28pin me down. But this is not a sports podcast, so we will not talk about the superb owl.
0:02:34Other than to say that Myke, sick in bed though he was, was apparently up in the middle of
0:02:39the night in England watching the Super Bowl, because he likes to do that, because I think
0:02:42he likes the spectacle of it.
0:02:44I think he does too. And there is a lot of spectacle. I did see something this morning,
0:02:48a recap of the halftime show and it seems completely crazy, but I was at home, home
0:02:53working, not watching football.
0:02:55Yeah.
0:02:56You were helping put together the document for today and then I went in.
0:03:00It's funny, you know, traditionally, I don't know about other people, but traditionally
0:03:05one eats dinner and perhaps if you like this sort of thing, has an adult beverage late
0:03:11in the evening and that's the time when you stop, you know, you stop your working and
0:03:14and you move on to relaxation and entertainment and other parts of your life. And yesterday
0:03:19was super weird because being on the West Coast especially, the Super Bowl starts at
0:03:23like three in the afternoon. And we had people over, we had Phil Michaels and Lisa Schmeiser
0:03:27came over with their daughter and we took a little hike in the neighborhood and we're
0:03:33briefly high above San Francisco. And we came back and I cooked a lot of stuff, I made a
0:03:40lot of food. And it was weird. So we had a lot of food, and I had some beer, and it was
0:03:46all sort of in the mid-afternoon, which is not traditional. And then when it was all
0:03:50said and done, and they left, and my wife's family called, and she was talking to them
0:03:55on the phone, and I came out here, and I sat down, and I worked for about an hour, and
0:03:59I worked on what we're going to talk about today and some other stuff. And it was just
0:04:03really funny that that's not usually how it works, that you have lots of food and drink
0:04:07beer and all that. And then many hours later, you sit down and work for a while. But working
0:04:12at home, I guess that's how it works.
0:04:14- Yeah, it's hard to set those boundaries sometimes. But that's enough about us. Let's
0:04:20talk about in the vein of sports.
0:04:22- More and more about us. Oh, that's enough.
0:04:24- Let's talk about the brain ball all-stars.
0:04:27- Okay. Yeah. So people have been asking for a long time, including you, about doing upgrade
0:04:35merchandise because people have been listening to the show for more than a year and we have
0:04:40no upgrade merchandise, and now we do. So we are working, this is I think a new one
0:04:45for Relay, we're working, although Incomparable has done this for a while, with Cotton Bureau,
0:04:50and we have two products available for people if they would like to buy them. I don't want
0:04:54to turn this into an ad read, but it is a little bit, because we want you to know that
0:04:57they exist, and they're only going to be on sale until February 19th, so you need to get
0:05:03your order in if you want one of these. And the first one is the Brain Ball t-shirt. So
0:05:10our relay designer Frank did an amazing job at designing this shirt. It is the sports
0:05:17t-shirt, except it is for the sport of Brain Ball. It features an orange brain on it, very
0:05:22similar to the one that I have, I'm looking at right now on my desk. And it's labeled
0:05:28the Upgrade All Stars Brain Ball Established 2014. And you can get that in a navy t-shirt
0:05:35in a couple of different styles, or you can get it in a raglan, which is that sort of,
0:05:40if you think of it as a sort of a softball shirt, it's got, it's two-toned, the sleeves
0:05:45are a different color, and they're long sleeves or three-quarter sleeves. So it's pretty cool.
0:05:52I was really happy with it. We were thinking for a long time of what we wanted to do, because
0:05:56We did want to just do like an upgrade logo t-shirt.
0:05:58And the brain ball is a lot of-- it's a fun t-shirt.
0:06:01I'm really looking forward to getting mine.
0:06:04I am ordering mine right now.
0:06:06OK.
0:06:06All right.
0:06:08Did you not know about it before?
0:06:09No, I did.
0:06:10I just haven't done it.
0:06:10My sales pitch really won you over.
0:06:12Yeah, you talked me into it.
0:06:13So the other thing--
0:06:14one of the other concepts we had when
0:06:15Myke and I were talking about this
0:06:17is this idea of upgrade your wardrobe.
0:06:19We wanted to do something special.
0:06:21We wanted to do something that we
0:06:22hadn't done for any of the Relay podcast before,
0:06:24and I haven't done for Incomparable before.
0:06:25And so we decided we were going to do it, and it's expensive,
0:06:28but we wanted to do it because we thought
0:06:30it would be a lot of fun.
0:06:31And it's a hoodie.
0:06:32It's the Upgrade Your Wardrobe Hoodie,
0:06:34and that link will also be in the show notes.
0:06:37It is an independent trading company zip-up hoodie.
0:06:41This is actually--
0:06:43I actually went to the Cotton Bureau guys
0:06:44and said, can you get this hoodie?
0:06:45Because this is actually my favorite hoodie.
0:06:47This is going to be your endorsement portion.
0:06:49This is the hoodie I wear.
0:06:50I have the light and heavy versions.
0:06:52This is the heavier version of it.
0:06:54It's a really great zip hoodie.
0:06:56It's got an embroidered upgrade logo, which is pretty awesome on the front.
0:07:04It's an embroidered patch with the upgrade logo.
0:07:07So you will look like either a really in-the-know podcast listener or possibly a Star Trek character
0:07:14as you wear it.
0:07:15It's beautiful.
0:07:16I love it.
0:07:18And there is a secret design feature of this hoodie that we cannot reveal, but those who
0:07:25have the hoodie will be inculcated into a secret society of upgradians who have the
0:07:33Upgrade Your Wardrobe hoodie.
0:07:35And that is also courtesy of something that Frank did, that the Cotton Bureau people worked
0:07:40on us, worked with us on it, and it's awesome.
0:07:43So...
0:07:44It is really cool.
0:07:46So that's all we're going to say about it.
0:07:48And we know that it's pricey and that shipping internationally is pricey too and we're sorry
0:07:52about that.
0:07:53This is what we were capable of doing for this round.
0:07:56So if you would like some upgrade gear, please check it out.
0:08:00And you've got until February the 19th.
0:08:03Very cool.
0:08:05So a little more traditional follow up now.
0:08:09Over the weekend, it looks like Apple opened a repair extension program for the late 2013
0:08:16Mac Pro.
0:08:18Upgrade listeners will be well aware that Myke owned one of these, and if you ever listened
0:08:22live, there were times where his computer would just stop working, and then Jason would
0:08:27be talking into the--
0:08:29- I would monologue for a while.
0:08:31- Yeah.
0:08:32- Answer questions from the chat room while Myke rebooted, yeah.
0:08:34- Yeah, so, and we had always sort of thought
0:08:37that that was a GPU issue, and it looks like
0:08:40according to this repair program that it is.
0:08:42And so they are, there's a whole list of things here.
0:08:45Basically your computer of course has to fall
0:08:47into the manufacturer date, they usually do
0:08:50a serial number check, and you have to be experiencing
0:08:53some symptoms, so some of the ones listed are
0:08:54distorted video, no video, freezing, restarts,
0:08:58preventing the system from starting up.
0:09:01lots of very power-related type issues,
0:09:04and it seems like Apple is going to take care of these.
0:09:08What's cool about this, people might not know this
0:09:10about the repair extension program,
0:09:12is that say that you don't buy
0:09:14the warranty with the machine,
0:09:18so you don't buy the AppleCare,
0:09:20Apple will act as if you have for these specific issues.
0:09:24So say that you have, or you're experiencing this,
0:09:27and your computer is out of warranty,
0:09:28well, they're not going to come replace
0:09:31SSD if an SSD fails, but if you have this failure and you fall within these
0:09:34parameters, the Apple Store, the Genius Bar, AppleCare on the phone
0:09:39will take care of it, which is pretty cool.
0:09:42Yeah, I mean, I think given that this has been a problem, obviously,
0:09:47since manufacturing for some of these models, that is the thing they
0:09:50have to do. They would get sued. I suspect they might anyway. I mean, they're
0:09:55always getting sued. But yeah, it's good. So if you've got a trash can,
0:10:00Trashcan Mac Pro, you should check it out because even if you are not noticing many
0:10:06problems I think it's worth seeing if you are eligible for this because this is a problem
0:10:12that will affect the, these things should last a long time and they cost a lot of money
0:10:17and this is a physical problem, this is a hardware problem that Apple has taken responsibility
0:10:23for. So I believe Myke's, the owner, the new owner of Myke's Mac Pro will also probably
0:10:30take advantage of this program. But Myke sold it, he sold the Mac Pro, so he doesn't, he's
0:10:34got a 5K iMac now instead, so he doesn't have to worry about it.
0:10:37Yeah, so if you have thrown your Mac Pro in the trash can, go get it out, dust it off,
0:10:42and that might be a tight fit. I got a big trash can here, couple Mac Pros in there.
0:10:50the 5SE is in the news again. This uh... That's the rumored uh...
0:10:55new small uh... replacement for the 5S
0:10:59uh... with uh... more iPhone 6 technology in it.
0:11:02And this is... it's funny 'cause Myke and I talked about
0:11:06colored iPhones and colored Apple products
0:11:10uh... I think last week.
0:11:13And then there's this rumor... I hope we didn't start this rumor.
0:11:17But it's a rumor from Mac, a story from MacRumors that is referencing a Japanese website,
0:11:25so it's one of those rumor stories, but still, that there are other colors for the
0:11:30iPhone 5SE, including a pink shade that they say is different than the rose gold of it.
0:11:39And who knows whether this is real or not, and whether it's just one color, but I love
0:11:45the idea in general of Apple, as we said last week, you know, you were looking at, you've
0:11:50got all the old hardware, you look at those iPod Nanos, and I guess you get them mostly
0:11:55in the blue, but still, they're all, it's like a blue iPod Nano, and every time I looked
0:11:59in my drawer of like old iPods that I had at Macworld, I was, you know, here's a pink
0:12:04one and here's a red one, and here's a blue one, and here's an orange one, and that gave
0:12:09them all personality, and when I look at my drawer of iPhones and things, you know, it's,
0:12:14"Oh, that one's silver, that one's darker, metallic."
0:12:17You know, it's just kind of boring.
0:12:19So I think it would be great if they put colors
0:12:21not just on the 5SE, but everywhere.
0:12:25- Yeah, the Nano, I mean, you guys touched on it,
0:12:27it really is like the example, right?
0:12:30Even though for the ones from my video,
0:12:31I bought all blue ones, even the shades differ over time.
0:12:35Apple really, you know, they were playful
0:12:39is the adjective that comes to mind with the iPod Nano,
0:12:42And I think it'd be fun to have that in the iPhone as well.
0:12:45And maybe this 5SE, I would only imagine,
0:12:48would be lower volume than the other ones.
0:12:50And so maybe it's a way to start doing that
0:12:52without committing to a product like the iPhone 6S,
0:12:56which they've just sold.
0:12:57- Well, we know that the 5C came in colors.
0:13:01And although that didn't do as well
0:13:03as I think people expected it to,
0:13:05which, in hindsight, is that surprising?
0:13:08I think that was Apple's lesson in
0:13:11don't just make, you know, they changed the shell,
0:13:14but in the, and called it a different name,
0:13:17but inside it was still the old phone.
0:13:19And, you know, it felt like an aberration for them
0:13:22from their usual thing, which is just,
0:13:24look, it's the old phone. (laughs)
0:13:26That seems like a simpler conversation to have with people.
0:13:29So the 5C, you know, but the 5C did that.
0:13:32It had colors and the colorful back and all that,
0:13:34but, you know, I don't know.
0:13:36I just, I think it's, I think the iPod showed us.
0:13:38It was a lot of fun having those colorful things,
0:13:40you got to make a choice and for whatever reason choosing between red and
0:13:44blue and and orange and green is more exciting than choosing between these
0:13:51various shades of gray perhaps with a a gold tint right yeah it's less exciting
0:13:58I don't know yeah I agree we heard from listener Luca about this shutting off a
0:14:05Mac from an iOS device question yeah yeah so we have a question on ask
0:14:10upgrade about turning off, I think it was turning off Plex on a Mac from an iOS device,
0:14:16and we got three pieces of feedback. So Luca wrote in and said, "Alfred Remote will do
0:14:22that," which is an iOS app that talks to the Alfred app that runs on the Mac that is
0:14:27an automation app. And so you can run Alfred Remote on that computer and turn off the Mac.
0:14:33I'm not sure, you might be able to set up a script that turns off Plex and trigger it
0:14:38via Alfred remote. And also it's just an interesting idea that you know if you
0:14:42use Alfred you may not even be aware that there's the iOS app that will
0:14:46trigger stuff from your iOS device. But I also heard from listener Simon
0:14:50who had a very nerdy way of doing this that I thought was cool which was you
0:14:55have an Apple script that says you know tell application plex to quit. You put
0:15:01that on the Mac and then you use workflow the iOS app and you create a
0:15:06workflow that SSHs into your computer and runs the script using the OSA script command.
0:15:17And then you do the same thing with a different script to launch Plex.
0:15:20I thought that was really clever and I think that would totally work.
0:15:25And then listener David wrote in and said you can also use, similar to the Alfred recommendation,
0:15:33can also use Keyboard Maestro Control, which is an app that lets you control Keyboard Maestro,
0:15:39another utility, to call a quitplex macro that you create in Keyboard Maestro. So it
0:15:46sounds like those are all ways, whether you want to build it yourself or whether you want
0:15:49to use a third-party utility and an app of turning off a Mac or quitting a specific app
0:15:57that's running on the Mac. So lots of options if you want to do that. So thank you to Luca
0:16:01and Simon and David because they all piled on with various ways you could do it. Or you
0:16:07could just use remote desktop using screens or iTeleport or something like that, which
0:16:13is what I usually do, but it's more fiddly for sure.
0:16:17Yeah, I've used the Alfred remote and it really is pretty handy. I have a Mac Mini hooked
0:16:25up to our television. Sometimes, if I just need to do something quick to that, instead
0:16:28instead of, you know, as good as screens is,
0:16:31especially on the iPad Pro, sometimes it's quicker
0:16:33just to tell it to do something as opposed to going
0:16:35and doing it yourself, and I think that's where these
0:16:38scripts and remote firing come in handy when you don't
0:16:41have access to the GUI or don't want to tap around
0:16:44your phone on a, you know, a visualization
0:16:47of your Mac screen, so, lots of good solutions here,
0:16:51I think, for people.
0:16:52- Yeah.
0:16:53I think that's all the follow-up we have.
0:16:55- I think so.
0:16:56Do you want to tell us about our first sponsor this week?
0:16:58- Sure, absolutely.
0:16:59This episode of Upgrade brought to you by Casper.
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0:17:10I know I have.
0:17:11The last couple of mattresses we bought in a showroom
0:17:14with a salesperson hovering usually,
0:17:17and you lay down for a minute,
0:17:18and you try to imagine that that minute was eight hours.
0:17:22(both laughing)
0:17:23You can't because it doesn't work like that,
0:17:26and they always have sales,
0:17:27which means that probably the base prices are inflated,
0:17:30but then they have a sale that cuts it down.
0:17:32And I don't know, I was always uncomfortable
0:17:34'cause I felt like I didn't have a lot of information
0:17:36as a consumer, nor did I have a lot of power.
0:17:38And I was just sort of gonna have to close my eyes
0:17:41and make a purchase decision and hope for the best.
0:17:44One of the nice things about the internet in general
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0:18:16it in this little vacuum-sealed bag inside a cardboard box and they can mail it to you.
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0:18:36is sleeping on it, but if you don't like it, you don't have that pressure of, "Well,
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0:20:03FM. It's Casper. That's the story. It is not a ghost. It is a mattress.
0:20:09It's a great mattress. Yeah. So this week, or I guess now last week, there was this big
0:20:14There's a big article over on The Verge
0:20:16written by Walt Mossberg.
0:20:17I'm sure you've heard about it by now,
0:20:19so I'm not going to really dive into the article too much,
0:20:21I don't think.
0:20:22But basically I think his sort of high-level argument
0:20:25is that Apple's first-party apps,
0:20:28so things like Mail and Safari and Calendar,
0:20:32the apps that Apple builds
0:20:34that sort of sit on top of the operating system,
0:20:36that those have really fallen down in quality
0:20:40over the last several years, several releases,
0:20:43both on the Mac and iOS, and where they kind of
0:20:46meet each other in the service cloud layer.
0:20:49And it really, it took off, I mean,
0:20:51there's a lot of response to this,
0:20:53all basically people kind of gnawing their head in agreement.
0:20:56And for me, I thought it was an interesting thing
0:20:59to jump off from, to talk about what we use,
0:21:03like what first-party apps are in our workflows,
0:21:06and what do we rely on that Apple builds,
0:21:09besides the OS itself?
0:21:11- Yeah, I think the distinction between
0:21:12operating systems and the apps is interesting.
0:21:15Sometimes it's unfair because some of the apps
0:21:17really are part of the operating system process
0:21:19and others are less so.
0:21:21But I do think it's interesting to separate them out
0:21:24and say how many of the problems that people have
0:21:26with Apple are not the OS,
0:21:29but are these first party apps or are services
0:21:33or some combination of both.
0:21:35'Cause Apple's doing a lot of jobs here, right?
0:21:36They're doing hardware and software and services,
0:21:39but the software is actually the OS stuff
0:21:42more fundamental and then apps that come along with, some of which are kind of tied to fundamental
0:21:47parts of the operating system and others aren't. I'm not using any mail and calendar stuff
0:21:54from Apple at this point, are you?
0:21:56I am, actually. I use mail.app both on the Mac and on iOS, but I feel like the time is
0:22:06coming to an end, and I use Gmail for my personal stuff and then I use Google Apps for work.
0:22:11- Yep, me too.
0:22:12- And they work fine, you know, I think it was at Mavericks
0:22:15had like a lot of like really bad Gmail issues,
0:22:19but it works now fine, but you lose a lot of the sort of
0:22:23extra stuff that you can do on top of Gmail,
0:22:27and for me, those features are becoming more important
0:22:30than being able to use what's built in.
0:22:33So I do use Mail, but maybe not for too much longer.
0:22:37- Yeah, I think probably around the time
0:22:40that you're talking about with Mavericks sort of having very bad Gmail problems.
0:22:45I ended up using, trying a bunch of different apps, and I kept coming back to Mailplane,
0:22:51which is just some pretty stuff on top of the Gmail interface and just the web interface.
0:22:58And I thought that would be something that I, there's no way that I would stick with
0:23:02it, and yet I've stuck with it.
0:23:03And now when I go back to Mail, I think, "Yeah, you know, it's better than it was.
0:23:09actually mail in El Capitan is much better than it was in some ways. Like, it's much
0:23:16more efficient in checking mail than it ever used to be. But I've always had a love-hate
0:23:21relationship with mail. Like, mail is, you know, it's always been inefficient and it
0:23:26felt like something that was built for very, by very particular users for themselves and
0:23:32that there are lots of ways people use mail outside of working at Apple that mail never
0:23:38really, I mean, the inefficiency was one of the big things, it's like, it was built for
0:23:43having as much data as you could possibly need, and it would just check IMAP mailboxes
0:23:48in the background, and wouldn't prioritize, you'd get new mail, and you couldn't see it,
0:23:53because it was downloading other things, and it basically would make you wait to see what
0:23:57was in your inbox, and that's just, no mail program should ever do that, but mail did
0:24:02that, and it's actually better at that now than it used to be, but I think it took Apple
0:24:08employees working on airplane Wi-Fi to discover, at last, that mail was inefficient at that.
0:24:16And it's got weird quirks and stuff. And you're right, if you use features of Gmail, then
0:24:20it's not fantastic. And also, a lot of people have been trying to re-conceptualize mail
0:24:26for a long time. And recently, we've seen a lot of scheduling your mail and prioritizing
0:24:33it like a to-do list and stuff like that. And mail seems behind the curve on all of
0:24:37as well.
0:24:38- Yeah, it does.
0:24:41The thing about mail that sort of sticks with me, though,
0:24:46is that it is so integrated and that with any of these
0:24:50app replacements, especially on iOS, it's hard to
0:24:54really integrate a third-party app into all the system stuff
0:25:00the way that mail is, because mail comes with it.
0:25:05And that's, for me, like, all these apps are always
0:25:08going to be a little bit behind until Apple,
0:25:10if Apple allows third-party apps to swap in as the default,
0:25:14like they do on the Mac.
0:25:15On the Mac, you can do that most of the time,
0:25:18but not on iOS yet.
0:25:19- Yeah, it's, I actually had this last night where I,
0:25:24I mentioned we had Phil and Lisa over to watch
0:25:27the Super Bowl, and they asked for one of the recipes
0:25:30of one of the things that I made,
0:25:31and I wanted to email it to them, and it was on my iPad,
0:25:34had the Safari open and I thought, I had that moment of like, "Can I share this?"
0:25:42And there are still times, and I was able to share that with Outlook, which I'm using
0:25:45right now, and send it that way, but there are times even now where things come up where
0:25:51iOS still really wants to use Apple Mail to send something out.
0:25:57And it's a problem, right?
0:26:00It means that you always need, I feel like,
0:26:03depending on your settings, there are a lot of people,
0:26:05if you use a third-party tool,
0:26:06you're basically double-loading everything,
0:26:08because I think that unless you've got the settings right,
0:26:10you know, mail is still gonna load your mail,
0:26:13if you've got mail set up,
0:26:14even if you're using some other mail app.
0:26:16And that's dumb and wasteful, but I think it's just,
0:26:20you know, it's not a drop-in replacement
0:26:22or anything like that.
0:26:23But I wouldn't go back to Apple Mail, I think,
0:26:25at this point, because I do like some of those
0:26:27extra features, even though I think Apple Mail on iOS,
0:26:30I have no problem with it.
0:26:31I think it's fine.
0:26:33I don't think it's burdened by the history of Apple
0:26:37Mail on the desktop.
0:26:40Yeah, one thing I would like to see these third party
0:26:42apps do better at, though, is multi-account support.
0:26:45So I used to use MailPlane when I had a jobby job for my work
0:26:49email.
0:26:49And so everything was just in there.
0:26:51I used Gmail on iOS for that account.
0:26:54And so it was completely firewalled off
0:26:55from personal email.
0:26:56But now that firewall doesn't really exist anymore.
0:26:59and I've got three accounts I need to check,
0:27:01and even the Gmail app on iOS, which is pretty good,
0:27:06there's a lot of hoops you have to jump through
0:27:08to see a unified inbox, for instance,
0:27:09which I love on the Mac.
0:27:10- Yeah, unified inbox is--
0:27:12- It's like the holy grail of third-party mail apps.
0:27:15- Yeah, that would be a reason to not use a system
0:27:19that doesn't unify your inbox, and in fact,
0:27:22that's why when I was working at Macworld,
0:27:25I generally did use a mail app that was not mail-plane,
0:27:28because I wanted a unified inbox.
0:27:31I wanted to see all my mail,
0:27:32even though it was coming from different accounts
0:27:34and going back out through different accounts.
0:27:35I didn't want to,
0:27:37I wanted a list of what mail I needed to deal with.
0:27:39And then eventually, the mail problems got so bad
0:27:41because of OS updates and also because of server updates
0:27:44that happened at IDG that I did end up with
0:27:48two separate windows for mail.
0:27:51And it's another thing to check.
0:27:53So, I don't know.
0:27:56It's Apple Mail, it's funny, I was just telling somebody
0:28:00the other day about, and I know I've said on the show
0:28:02before that it's funny that we're in this position
0:28:05where in some cases I really prefer the iOS counterpart
0:28:09of Mac apps, and we're gonna talk about the Mac
0:28:11a little bit later, but this is sort of one of those things
0:28:14about technical debt, I feel like, where, you know,
0:28:18Apple Mail is new on iOS, and on the Mac,
0:28:22it's based on Next Mail, I think.
0:28:25I mean, it's a much older app for sure.
0:28:29And I feel this way about the Microsoft Office apps too.
0:28:31Like Office for iOS, I feel like,
0:28:33is such a fresh breath of air,
0:28:36and I don't feel that way about Office on the Mac.
0:28:39And it's kind of not fair, because it's an older platform,
0:28:42and they've got a lot of users to support
0:28:44who've been using it for a long time,
0:28:46and it's a different game.
0:28:48But in the end, it's a disadvantage to those Mac apps
0:28:52they have to support that you know they have that history and they have to
0:28:56support that user base and you know I apple has shown in the past that it is
0:29:02unafraid sometimes to make a big break from the past with something like iMovie
0:29:07or GarageBand and I wonder if the solution to something like mail or
0:29:12iTunes which we should probably also talk about is taking that kind of bold
0:29:17step with those apps and say mail is going to be really different than it's
0:29:21been before or iTunes is going to be really different please please than it's
0:29:25been before because over you know 10 15 20 years just junk builds up on apps and
0:29:31iOS really makes it clear because the iOS stuff hasn't had that much time for
0:29:35the junk to build up yet it's only still building up right what about a what
0:29:41about web browsers that's a another common one I think that people swap out
0:29:46so I use Safari on iOS but on the Mac I've switched to Chrome full-time and
0:29:50and have for years now. What about you?
0:29:53I'm Safari all the way, honestly.
0:29:56I use Chrome. Chrome remains my Flash holding bin of, "Oh, this webpage wants to load a video using Flash."
0:30:05I will go open that in Chrome.
0:30:07But I use Safari everywhere, and part of that is just the ecosystem thing, right?
0:30:13Which is that if I have a browser window open on my iPad, I can call it up on my Mac and Safari and vice versa.
0:30:19because I can see that there's iCloud tabs.
0:30:24Right, right, so I have access to all of that,
0:30:26and I have access to the history from place to place.
0:30:29And Safari generally works well for me.
0:30:31There are those moments where I get really frustrated
0:30:33with Safari, but even then I try Chrome,
0:30:37and I get frustrated by it, and I come back to Safari.
0:30:40Safari generally works for me,
0:30:44except there was that really sad moment, was it last year,
0:30:46when Google Apps stuff just basically broke in Safari
0:30:50for a while.
0:30:51Basically, I think almost the whole run of Yosemite's version
0:30:55of Safari, it just didn't work.
0:30:57And all the Twitter links don't work half the time in Safari
0:31:01now because of some, I don't know,
0:31:03redirect problem that a t.co link will just not load.
0:31:07Yeah, I'm sure that's fine.
0:31:09Yeah, who needs Twitter links?
0:31:11Yeah.
0:31:11And Chrome has gotten clever.
0:31:13So if you are using Handoff and you have something open
0:31:16in Safari on iOS, you can hand it off to Chrome on the Mac
0:31:20and vice versa.
0:31:21But those iCloud tabs, right?
0:31:23So my iPad Pro is at home today asleep,
0:31:27and I left a tab open in it.
0:31:29That I can't get to without using Safari.
0:31:32Without using Safari.
0:31:33Safari uses that iCloud tab feature.
0:31:34But the Handoff stuff, they've gotten pretty good
0:31:35at sort of pretending to be Safari, which I think
0:31:38is a clever way around it.
0:31:39Because I don't want to use a third-party browser on iOS.
0:31:42- So why are you using Chrome?
0:31:44Why are you using Chrome on Mac?
0:31:47- Part of it was the Yosemite thing,
0:31:50Google Apps thing last year,
0:31:51but a big part of it too is that I,
0:31:54for a couple different things,
0:31:55I need different profiles in Chrome.
0:31:58So Chrome can go in and say,
0:31:59you know, this profile's logged into this
0:32:02Google Apps account,
0:32:02and I have one separate from my YouTube Creator account
0:32:05because that stuff is crazy and needs to be sandboxed.
0:32:09And so that is helpful in my sort of everyday work.
0:32:14But the big thing is I have found Safari to be,
0:32:17sort of have these weird little bugs
0:32:18with stuff that I need to use.
0:32:21Which was infuriating for a long time
0:32:24'cause they were both built on WebKit
0:32:25and now that's broken off and Google and Apple
0:32:28are no longer really working together on WebKit.
0:32:30- Nope, they're not web buddies anymore.
0:32:32- No, and they broke up.
0:32:34So for me, I find Chrome to be faster
0:32:36and to sort of be a little more universally supported.
0:32:40That said, there are problems.
0:32:41I mean Chrome is very famously
0:32:44a complete energy hog on the Mac.
0:32:46I mean you can see significant battery life increase
0:32:50if you switch from Chrome back to Safari.
0:32:53Most of the time it just seems to work better for me.
0:32:57And hey, it's nice to have options,
0:33:00but I will grant that it does not feel as native
0:33:03or as refined as Safari does at times.
0:33:05Yeah, so my wife uses Chrome and she prefers it and it's a lot of the reasons that you
0:33:11said and I think that's totally reasonable.
0:33:15It just doesn't seem necessary for me so I don't do it but it's a purpose use browser
0:33:24for me I guess I would say.
0:33:26So like I said, I mean I can say the video stuff, that's true but if I ever have a hiccup
0:33:31in Google Apps, I just go to Chrome because it is, obviously, Google is building their
0:33:36apps to work in Chrome for the best experience, and it is the best experience. They feel much
0:33:43more streamlined and less sluggish than they do on Safari. That's the fact. And yeah, every
0:33:50now and then there are features that Chrome has that Safari doesn't. So like those podcast,
0:33:55I recorded last week's TV Talk Machine podcast with Tim Goodman. I don't have him record
0:34:00his end of the conversation like we do with most of our podcasts because it's just too
0:34:03much, it's too much work. He's not a particularly technical guy. He's a really insightful TV
0:34:07critic but he's not a technical guy at all. And I've been using Cast with him a little
0:34:11bit which is, you know, TriCast, T-R-Y-C-A dot S-T, which is a, basically it's a podcast
0:34:19service where you set up a podcast and send people a link and they click on the link in
0:34:24Chrome and you have the conversation and it's doing all of the recording and uploading in
0:34:29the background so you don't have to be technical at all as long as you've got a microphone
0:34:33and you can be part of the conversation and you get the highest audio quality at the end
0:34:36of it which is great but you cannot do that with Safari Safari doesn't support those protocols
0:34:40yet hopefully it will at some point but until it does that's an example where it's just
0:34:46like you got to use Chrome or I think Firefox or something but I'm not going to use Firefox
0:34:50I would use so I use Chrome for some stuff but I haven't I haven't completely switched
0:34:54I think it's I think part of it is just comfort in Safari and part of it is the ecosystem
0:34:57- Awesome.
0:34:58So, kind of coming to us just a little bit,
0:35:02what about mapping?
0:35:04I know for me here in Memphis,
0:35:06Apple Maps has basically always been fine.
0:35:10I've never had the sort of horror stories
0:35:12of it taking me to an abandoned warehouse
0:35:14when I was trying to go to the pediatrician's office.
0:35:17But you spend time in a much bigger city sometimes.
0:35:22How has Maps been for you?
0:35:25Maps is, I am fortunate to live in the area in which Apple is located, so the maps here
0:35:32are great. The Apple Maps are great. And I wrote, I mean, we talked about it on the show
0:35:37with Myke before, that I used Apple Maps a lot on my, in the beta for iOS 9 last summer
0:35:44on our road trip, and I thought it worked pretty great. But again, that was a West Coast,
0:35:48that was a West Coast road trip. And I've heard that in some parts of the US, and especially
0:35:52I've heard in other countries, the Maps data is still bad. But I think the Maps app is
0:35:57good and the data is good in some places, right? I think the app itself is not a problem.
0:36:04I think that's more of a services problem. Every now and then I get frustrated by the
0:36:08Maps app, and I do try the Google Maps app from time to time, sometimes as a second opinion.
0:36:14And I do use that occasionally. It's a little bit like my Chrome experience where I try
0:36:18to use the Apple stuff, but I will also use the Google stuff from time to time.
0:36:23And I don't have a big problem with it.
0:36:25The Google stuff is good too.
0:36:26I think Google adding lane guidance has been really good, and that's a place where Apple
0:36:31is behind.
0:36:32Google's lane guidance isn't always reliable, but I like the idea that it's trying to
0:36:38tell you what lane you need to get in on the freeway, because that can be...
0:36:44The more information you get, the better when you're driving somewhere, especially if
0:36:47someplace unfamiliar. So I was in Phoenix the other week and driving on Interstate 10
0:36:54through Phoenix and there are a couple places there where the old, and MAP still does this,
0:37:00the old style like, "In two miles, remain on the road." And you're like, "Why did you
0:37:07say that?" And the answer is because in their MAP interface, there's an exit-only lane.
0:37:15the way the computer program translates that is basically to tell you to stay on the road
0:37:19and not exit, which is kind of dumb because you're on the road, so why would you exit?
0:37:26But when you get lane guidance in, you can have a little more intelligence and you can
0:37:29say, "Stay in the left three lanes," and that's more helpful. Or, "Use the right
0:37:37two lanes to exit," or something like that can be helpful. So when I use Google Maps,
0:37:42I do recognize that they are, they're ahead of Apple
0:37:45in terms of data, and it's not surprising, right?
0:37:47It's Google.
0:37:48Google has been ahead of everybody
0:37:50in terms of that kind of data for a long time.
0:37:53- What about Notes?
0:37:56Notes obviously got a big overhaul this past year.
0:38:00- It won an upgradey, you know,
0:38:02Myke and I gave it an upgradey, so.
0:38:03- It's true.
0:38:04- That's big news, big news.
0:38:07- Still happy with it?
0:38:08- Still waiting for Apple to put the upgradey
0:38:09on the notes page on the Apple website. Is there a notes page on the Apple website?
0:38:13I'm sure there is. Yeah, I was just using it the other day. John
0:38:18Sirakusen and I recorded an episode of Robot or Not and I have a little note that is all
0:38:23of the things that I need to ask him about whether they're robots or not. I've got
0:38:27all my notes of when I watch a movie for The Incomparable. Those are in there. And I've
0:38:33got, we just did an episode of The Incomparable where we did an album draft and I wrote down
0:38:39all the albums that I was thinking of drafting in Notes. So I use Notes as just a holding
0:38:44bin for stuff. And the biggest reason is because it's capable of doing everything I want, and
0:38:48it syncs to all of my devices, and that's what I want. I don't want to save things in
0:38:56a text file on my Mac if I know that I'm going to be using them on my iPad, because then
0:39:02what I'm going to maybe go to Dropbox if I saved it in Dropbox. It's just not worth it.
0:39:06just put in notes and then it'll show up on my iPhone and iPad.
0:39:09So that's what I definitely use it. Do you use Notes?
0:39:12I do for some stuff. I went real heavy
0:39:15into it when it first showed up this past year and
0:39:19I've since reverted kind of back to where I was where I have
0:39:23most of the stuff that I keep Notes on live as PlantX files on Dropbox.
0:39:28I use NV-ALT on the Mac
0:39:30and OneWriter which Federico turned me on to on iOS.
0:39:34And One Rider does a really great trick
0:39:36where it downloads the file locally,
0:39:38so if you're offline with your iOS device,
0:39:40you can edit the document and it syncs back with Dropbox
0:39:42when it comes online, which kind of solves that problem
0:39:45that you were talking about, like, well, it's on Dropbox
0:39:47or it's on the Mac, I don't know where it is.
0:39:49One Rider does a good job of that.
0:39:51But Notes is still definitely used,
0:39:54for example, what you said, that sort of like
0:39:55short burst stuff, hey, I just need,
0:39:58like I need to run to the store, this is what I need to get.
0:40:02or if I'm just sort of stuck somewhere,
0:40:06I just need to get some thoughts out of my head
0:40:07and just get something out of my brain into something else.
0:40:11Like just this past week, we had some concrete work
0:40:14down at our house and some on the phone with the contractor
0:40:17and he's kind of telling me the line items
0:40:19and the prices and everything
0:40:20before he sends me over the document
0:40:22and I'm just kind of just taking notes on our phone call.
0:40:24Like, yeah, these are the questions I need to ask,
0:40:26this is what I need to look out for,
0:40:27this is the day that my kids can walk on the concrete
0:40:30sinking into it. Just that little sort of stuff that doesn't have a home anywhere
0:40:35else, I found notes to be really, really good at. Yeah, notes, I think that's
0:40:40becoming the consensus, is that this Laughing Stock kind of app is actually
0:40:45now pretty good. I also use Reminders, which I don't use a lot. It's not
0:40:50like my to-do... well, I guess it is. I don't have a to-do system, let's put it that way.
0:40:57I don't have a to-do system, but I have Reminders lists. I have a Reminders list
0:41:00of, especially I have a working list of like story ideas for six colors and my mackerel
0:41:05column. So I use it for that and then I use the integration with Siri to do any list,
0:41:13shopping list stuff and that all goes through Reminders. But that's about it for that. But
0:41:19I don't use another to-do list, so Reminders is my to-do list, I suppose.
0:41:25- That has given me heartburn thinking about not having a task management system.
0:41:29- Well, that is one of the ways where we are totally
0:41:32different people.
0:41:33I have no task, I have tried all the task management
0:41:35systems, this is a topic, Myke and I should talk about
0:41:38this, maybe there should be an intervention or something,
0:41:39but I've tried all the task management systems and I just,
0:41:41I can't get them, I can't get into them, I can't use them,
0:41:44I've tried them all, and it just doesn't stick for me.
0:41:48So this is why I am a complete abject failure who never
0:41:52does anything.
0:41:56Somehow I get it all done, but it's not through a system.
0:41:59So yeah.
0:42:00- I'm sweating thinking about that.
0:42:02- Yeah, I'm sure.
0:42:04- I use OmniFocus for all that stuff,
0:42:06but I do use reminders.
0:42:08They're shared, the shared list,
0:42:09so in reminders you can say,
0:42:10"Hey, I want to share this list
0:42:12"with another iCloud email address."
0:42:15And that person can go in there
0:42:16and you both have read/write access to the list.
0:42:19And so my wife and I keep one for the grocery store.
0:42:22And then we kind of keep a second one
0:42:24for like non grocery store shopping,
0:42:28so like Target or whatever.
0:42:29And so if like just yesterday, coming home,
0:42:33and she took the kids in to pick up something to eat
0:42:36at a restaurant to go,
0:42:37and I was at the grocery store next door,
0:42:38we didn't have to like sit in the car and be like,
0:42:41oh, do we have this, do we need this?
0:42:43It was very much a hey, I know it's in a reminder
0:42:47so I can just pop into Kroger and I buy these eight things
0:42:49and everyone's happy and everyone knows what's going on.
0:42:51So it's the shared functionality and reminders is really what made it click for us.
0:42:57And I really hope that Notes gets that soon, where you can say, "Hey, you know, this
0:43:03Note my wife and I share, and we both have access to it."
0:43:07I think that'd be a really logical place for Notes to extend in the near future.
0:43:13That makes a lot of sense.
0:43:14I realized that I could horrify and excite Myke by telling him that my entire to-do system
0:43:21is just writing things down on scraps of paper because he would be horrified because that's
0:43:26not a system, but I would have to use a pen.
0:43:28You'd make his day and destroy his day all at once.
0:43:34All at once. Should we touch, before we move on off this topic, should we touch the third
0:43:39rail of apps, which is iTunes and Apple Music on iOS? You just sent the sobs of sadness.
0:43:47It is.
0:43:48- There you go.
0:43:50- I mean, I use iTunes every day.
0:43:52I'm not an Apple music subscriber.
0:43:54Listeners of Connected will know that no stream
0:43:56music service has really entered my life
0:43:58in any meaningful way yet.
0:44:00So I have a bunch of files on disk that iTunes can play,
0:44:03and I sync them to my iPhone and my iPad,
0:44:06and an iPod Nano I used to work out with
0:44:09and that sort of thing.
0:44:10And iTunes has gotten pretty bad,
0:44:12and anyone who has opened iTunes any time recently
0:44:15knows that, where things that used to be simple
0:44:17and things that used to be fast are neither simple
0:44:22nor fast anymore, and it's become bloated in a way that,
0:44:27like you said, these apps pick up weight as they go along.
0:44:31They pick up features they don't need.
0:44:33I mean, I know this for a fact, because I have a problem.
0:44:37The current version of iTunes, you can restore
0:44:40an original iPod from 2001 in and sync music to it.
0:44:43I love that it's a collector, but that doesn't need
0:44:46to be there, why is that still there?
0:44:50I think it's really time for iTunes on the Mac
0:44:54to either get broken up into different apps
0:44:56or to really see some of this stuff go away.
0:44:59And I know from--
0:45:00- They need to do an X on it, right?
0:45:03They need to do that Final Cut 10, that Logic 10,
0:45:07that GarageBand 10, whatever it is,
0:45:10it's that, hey, we still call it maybe this thing,
0:45:14but it's not this thing anymore.
0:45:15just change the name of it too because all the people will be like, "No, you can't change
0:45:19the name iTunes. iTunes is important." Well, there could be an iTunes app like there is
0:45:23on iOS that's just like the store and stuff, and that would be fine. But the iTunes app,
0:45:30I think, I mean, everybody seems to be in agreement about this. It's just you got to
0:45:33blow it up. You got to blow the thing up. What is the line from Aliens? Pull out, nuke
0:45:38the site from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure. I think that's what you got to do.
0:45:41And they may be doing it. I mean, they may have spent the last two years trying to do
0:45:44and it just hasn't happened yet.
0:45:45But iTunes, as a product, just can't stand.
0:45:49It cannot continue.
0:45:52It's been a disaster for years.
0:45:54And I use it every day.
0:45:56And it's a mess.
0:45:57And it's doing 10 things at once.
0:45:59It doesn't make any sense.
0:46:00It's like an operating system unto itself.
0:46:03And it's got to go.
0:46:05They should make a very nice music player that is integrated
0:46:08super well with iCloud.
0:46:10And that'll be a great app.
0:46:12they can make a syncing app for all their devices and device data. And you know, it's
0:46:16not like they have, you know, you control your syncing from the Photos app, which is
0:46:21another Apple app that I use all the time. You know, Photos isn't built into iTunes.
0:46:26It's got a place in iTunes where you can sync your photos and it talks to photos and
0:46:30it looks at the photos database and it lets you pick albums. So it's not like these
0:46:33apps have to live together and be the same app. They can talk to each other. So you make
0:46:37a syncing app and you make a music app and you make a store app and make them all good.
0:46:42- They used to have a syncing app, they could just bring it back.
0:46:44- iSync! iSync, they could bring it back. But it's just not, I mean, it's not good.
0:46:51It's just a mess right now. - Yeah, and I think this idea that apps gain
0:46:57new features over time and they become sort of something that they would never intend
0:47:01to be, I think that's what's happening to music.app on iOS, where it started out really
0:47:06really simply, I can sync music from my computer over
0:47:11and I can listen to it.
0:47:11And then they added purchasing, which I think they did
0:47:15a pretty good job of, if I'm re-sourced correctly,
0:47:17of being able to download new music from the iTunes store
0:47:19on your device and do what it's supposed to do.
0:47:23But Apple Music being bolted to the back of all of that,
0:47:26just dealing, as in the chat room,
0:47:27just jumping up and down, screaming about it.
0:47:29It's really not gone well for a lot of people,
0:47:32and even someone who doesn't use it,
0:47:35knowing that it's there, and I've actually resorted
0:47:38to turning on parental controls on my device
0:47:40to get rid of some of it, so I don't have to see it.
0:47:42And I really think Apple Music would be better served
0:47:46in its own app, but I feel like if they were going to do that
0:47:50they would have done it.
0:47:51And they obviously spent time merging the two,
0:47:54and so I think that's what Apple views
0:47:56as the best way to do it.
0:47:57- I think so, well I think they could do a better job
0:48:00keeping them separate.
0:48:01I think one of the most disappointing things,
0:48:03I use the Music app and I think it's fine,
0:48:05although it's overly complicated, I can use it, I can get what I want out of it, but,
0:48:11and we should put a link in the notes, Joe Steele did write a piece, it's a little bit
0:48:15ranty but that's okay, he was in the mood to rant, about, he tried using the Amazon
0:48:22Prime Music app, and it's instructive in how it's trying to do a very similar thing to
0:48:28what Apple does, and does it in a very different way, and a more, probably a better way than
0:48:34what Apple is doing, we'll put it that way. But my big disappointment with the music app
0:48:38is really that it feels like Apple made decisions in the music app design to push everybody
0:48:48who uses their iPhone to listen to music, or their iPad or their iPod Touch, to push
0:48:54Apple Music on them. That's the problem I have with it, is I don't feel, when I look
0:49:00at that app, I don't look at it and say, "Well, the reason that they did this this way is because
0:49:05it makes it easier on the customer. It makes it easier on the user." It feels to me like somebody
0:49:11said, "Do you realize the only way that this music service we're launching is going to succeed is if
0:49:15we get in the face of everybody who listens to music?" So let's get in their faces at all times
0:49:20and make it really hard for them to use this without using Apple Music so that Apple Music
0:49:26will be something that people just get to, you know, because they're confused or, you know,
0:49:31and, you know, maybe nobody said, "Let's confuse them and make their lives hard,"
0:49:36but it really feels like they're saying, "Let's push Apple Music. We need to push Apple Music.
0:49:40This needs to be an app that is really pushing our service." And that's the thing that bothers
0:49:46me about it is that I think that I just get that feeling that these were not decisions made
0:49:51to make me happy as a user, even as an Apple Music subscriber,
0:49:56they were made to get the eyeballs who use the app
0:50:01to be aware that Apple has a subscription music service.
0:50:05And that's not-- it needs to not do that.
0:50:09Yeah, it feels very un-Apple-like, right?
0:50:11You launch music for the first time,
0:50:13and you get a full-screen ad for the Apple Music service.
0:50:16And our go-to that feels like a decision that
0:50:18that was done by business people and not people
0:50:22who were concerned with that user experience
0:50:25that Apple says it prides itself on.
0:50:28- And even as an Apple Music subscriber, which I am,
0:50:31the prioritization of the tabs is ridiculous
0:50:34on iTunes and Apple Music, where it's sort of like,
0:50:37in Apple Music, music.app, right,
0:50:40it's like for you and new, and in the corner is my library.
0:50:44like in the corner is my library. You know, maybe that Apple, that's a major philosophical
0:50:52change to say what's really important to you is our stuff and not your stuff. And I just
0:50:57don't agree. I think that that's a mistake. I think if I have music in my library, my
0:51:03library is important to me and I should be able to play the music in my library. And
0:51:08as an iOS user, you don't have really another choice to play music unless you're using another
0:51:13streaming service but if you have like music that you want to load onto your
0:51:17device you're probably going to use the the what used to be the iPod app back in
0:51:21the day and you know instead it's kind of off in the corner of this subscription
0:51:26service app and the integration between the two is nice it could be better
0:51:30actually as a subscriber I kind of want it to be better because there are too
0:51:33many times when I'm searching for something and I have to decide where I
0:51:36want to search for it but and then iTunes is in there too which is even
0:51:40more confusing on the Mac where in some contexts you're searching either your library or iTunes
0:51:48and in another context it's either your library or Apple Music because there's three different
0:51:53sources of information, the purchases and the streaming. I don't know. It's a mess and
0:51:59I'm not saying that it's easy to do. This is a hard problem but Amazon took a different
0:52:05approach and it's simpler and it's and it's a and it's a you know it and their
0:52:10challenge a little bit easier but still it this is this is work that that that
0:52:15needs to be done and I just can't help but feel like we have the evidence we've
0:52:19got is that iTunes hasn't gotten any better and that the the music app is
0:52:25feels kind of like an ad for Apple music and this is not this is this is a
0:52:30relationship that needs to be repaired I guess is what I'm saying
0:52:34- It is, and you know, in thinking about this whole
0:52:37discussion about Apple software quality,
0:52:40and then just the exercise you and I went through
0:52:43of what do we use and what do we not use,
0:52:45the other angle that I can't help but think about is
0:52:49that I do think that conversation equality is,
0:52:55I think it's a real thing, I think it's something
0:52:57worth discussing, but it's also an angle where some
0:53:00of these apps and these tools just aren't meant for us,
0:53:03where you and I and people listening are, to a degree,
0:53:08some sort of power user, somewhere on that spectrum of
0:53:14computer users and iOS users and technology enthusiasts
0:53:20who do know and care about the differences
0:53:23between something like OmniFocus and Reminders,
0:53:25or something like iCloud, Keychain, and 1Password, right?
0:53:29Like on the surface, they do sort of the same thing,
0:53:31but if you get into it and you care to get into it,
0:53:33you know that they're different.
0:53:35And I think that's sort of something to remain aware of
0:53:39in this conversation that just because reminders,
0:53:42for instance, doesn't meet my needs,
0:53:45doesn't mean it's a bad app necessarily.
0:53:47It just means that it's not for me.
0:53:48And that's totally fine, and I completely understand
0:53:51that Apple has to write their first party apps
0:53:54to aim for the masses.
0:53:55And the masses don't know or care about snoozing your email.
0:53:59And there are a segment of people who do care about that,
0:54:03and they are the people that we talk to on Twitter
0:54:06and listen to the shows, and they're on the shows.
0:54:07But that's an important thing to remember,
0:54:10that you and I might have problems with mail,
0:54:14but a lot of people don't.
0:54:17And they might run into software issues,
0:54:19and that's that other rail to this conversation.
0:54:22But it's easy, I think, and it's tempting
0:54:25to conflate those two things in this argument.
0:54:28and something that I try to be aware of,
0:54:30that just because something doesn't meet my needs
0:54:32doesn't mean that it's bad.
0:54:34- Yeah, exactly right.
0:54:35That's something we should always keep in mind, right?
0:54:37That's the constant challenge of,
0:54:40when I was talking about difficulty earlier,
0:54:41I mean, these aren't easy things.
0:54:43Apple has to build tools for the 99% of users, right?
0:54:47There is a small percentage of people
0:54:54who are gonna wanna do more,
0:54:57But we are a small percentage of people, and we are those people, right? Whether we're
0:55:031% or half a percent or 10% or 5%, whatever it is, Apple's responsibility is first to
0:55:09everybody, and keeping it simple is a part of that. Unfortunately, with something like
0:55:16Apple Music, it feels like they're not keeping it simple either. But I don't expect Apple
0:55:22Mail to ever transform into a superpower kind of feature, although I do feel like Apple
0:55:27mail maybe could be a place where Apple could say, "Wouldn't it be nice if we told you about
0:55:32this email on Monday that you got over the weekend?" They could try that, but they would
0:55:38have to be thinking, you know, who's their audience for that app, and then getting out
0:55:42of the way and letting the third parties, and they have, right? I mean, you don't have
0:55:46to use Apple Mail, so that's fine.
0:55:49Yeah, I think there's always going to be that tension there, and that's not a uniquely Apple
0:55:54problem, but it's one that I feel is more sort of acutely
0:55:58felt by people who are on our side of it, who do need or
0:56:05want more, and then throw that in with the, oh, it's also
0:56:08sort of unreliable at times.
0:56:10It's kind of a nasty one-two punch.
0:56:12- Yeah.
0:56:15- Software, Jason, how does it work?
0:56:17- How does it work?
0:56:18Well, so let's, we're gonna talk about the Mac a little bit
0:56:20more, but we should take a break first.
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0:59:22Yay! The Mac. Yeah, yeah, I wanted to talk for a little bit, not too long. We've been,
0:59:27we went on about, about software for a while, but I want to talk about the Mac. One reason
0:59:32is because you are here, and you are a Mac aficionado and historian, I suppose, at this
0:59:40at this point and collector of old Mac things,
0:59:43including most recently a 20th anniversary Macintosh.
0:59:46- It's actually right, I left it at the office,
0:59:48it's actually like right here, right next to me.
0:59:50- Oh, yeah.
0:59:51Yeah, a guy in a tuxedo used to bring that to people
0:59:55when they paid $7,000 in, what, 1995 money, 1996 money?
0:59:59- '98.
1:00:03- 1998 money.
1:00:04- I did not pay that, but I also did not come
1:00:08the Tuxedo so what can you do? It wasn't 98, 97. 97. Because we got ours at MacUser when
1:00:15I was at MacUser so it would have to have been like spring of 97. Yeah. There you go.
1:00:22It's a weird computer. Yes it is. It's super weird. It's one of the weirdest Macs ever
1:00:28made. But you know, and you've got a lot of old Apple hardware stuff, but I wanted to
1:00:33bring it up because you were on and also because Dan Morin wrote a piece on MacWorld last week
1:00:37that was really nice that Phil Schiller retweeted,
1:00:39which I thought was really cool,
1:00:42which was about the staying power of the Mac.
1:00:45And I just wanted, we talk a lot about,
1:00:47like we've just done iOS stuff and all that,
1:00:50and I thought it was worth taking a minute
1:00:51and talking about the not losing sight
1:00:54of the appeal of the Mac and the power of the Mac.
1:00:56I mean, you are a Mac user primarily, right?
1:01:01I mean, you're not doing your job on an iPad, are you?
1:01:04- No, I'm not.
1:01:05And that is the underlying tension of my show
1:01:09with Myke and Federico, that Federico's been iOS first
1:01:13for a long time, and Myke has turned that way recently
1:01:16with the iPad Pro.
1:01:18And for me though, it's not that I can't do my work
1:01:22on the iPad, 'cause for the most part,
1:01:24Myke and I's jobs are basically the same.
1:01:26What he does on his iPad I could do on my iPad,
1:01:28but I still find the Mac to be the place
1:01:31where I'm the most comfortable and the most efficient.
1:01:34So for me, when it's time to sit down
1:01:37and get something done, I'm gonna reach for my MacBook Pro,
1:01:41even over the new iPad Pro, which I like.
1:01:44- Yeah, yeah.
1:01:46I've been trying to consider my Mac my work.
1:01:54I'm gesturing now and nobody can see it
1:01:59'cause that's really good, bad podcasting.
1:02:01(laughing)
1:02:03I use my Mac in my office, and what I'm not doing
1:02:06is bringing the laptop out into the house much.
1:02:09The office is separate, I got the door closed,
1:02:12I'm in here, the rest of the house is out there,
1:02:14and that's what I'm trying to do,
1:02:17but that also means that although I can and do use
1:02:21the iPad Pro for work, and I will sometimes go
1:02:23into the house and write some stuff in there,
1:02:25and I usually use the iPad Pro for that,
1:02:29my work context is the Mac, and I do rely on the Mac
1:02:32this stuff and I can't really imagine working, I can work in short bursts or maybe even on
1:02:39a vacation if I could get podcasting to work without bringing a laptop, but I cannot envision
1:02:44at this point, as much as I am enjoying trying to imagine life where you only work on an
1:02:50iPad, I can't envision that as my life at this point. The Mac allows me to be so productive,
1:02:57having this big screen, having the powerful computer,
1:03:00having all the software and scripting
1:03:02and all sorts of other things.
1:03:04And some of that is, I'll acknowledge,
1:03:06because I've been using the Mac since, what, 1990?
1:03:09A long time.
1:03:10But this is my workplace, essentially,
1:03:16is the screen of this 5K iMac is my workplace.
1:03:19- I think there's something to be said for that,
1:03:21and I have thought a lot about that sort of approach.
1:03:26I think we're talking about this March event here in a second, but I currently use a current
1:03:30generation so with the Force Touch trackpad, 15 inch MacBook Pro and my thought was, hey,
1:03:37I'm going to use this thing as a laptop alone a bunch of the time because I had this vision
1:03:42when I went self employed of I'm going to go work at a co-working space or go to a coffee
1:03:47shop and even here I'm at my office now and I have a display and a keyboard and a mouse
1:03:52in front of me and I dock the thing just like I do at home.
1:03:56And so I have been thinking about,
1:03:58well, I don't think the 15 inch fits me
1:04:01the way that I thought it would.
1:04:02I bought this over the summer right before I quit my job.
1:04:06Maybe I should do something different.
1:04:08Maybe I should go with an iMac and then maybe
1:04:11like the 13 inch Pro or maybe even a loaded MacBook Air
1:04:15as my when I need a notebook and then try the iPad Pro
1:04:20to sort of fill that space that you were talking about
1:04:22where right now, if I'm going to do something
1:04:25sort of out in the house, to use your language,
1:04:29it's going to be my MacBook Pro,
1:04:30and it already has my work stuff on it,
1:04:31so I'm just going to go do work,
1:04:34because it's there, because that's the context
1:04:36in which I work.
1:04:37And so I really like that idea of using the iPad
1:04:41sort of as not only a secondary device,
1:04:43but a device for a different purpose,
1:04:46and not, for me, for years, the frustration of iOS
1:04:50was I'm trying to recreate what I have on the Mac
1:04:52on this tablet or on this phone.
1:04:55And when it finally clicked for me,
1:04:56it was like, that's not the way I should approach this.
1:04:58I should approach this that this is a very different device,
1:05:01different form factor, different UI,
1:05:03different class of applications,
1:05:06and I should maybe treat them differently in my approach.
1:05:11And when I sort of stumbled upon that,
1:05:15it really sort of changed the game for me a little bit.
1:05:18I think that's a good point. When I talk about context switching, it's a little bit of that.
1:05:23When I am writing on my iPad, it is because I want to be out of my office, and I will go to
1:05:29the bar in my kitchen and put the iPad there and stand up and write there. Or I will go sit on the
1:05:36couch and do something that is not... I'm using it as a change of pace, and it works really well
1:05:43as that. I also feel like there's, you know, the iPad, I was talking over the weekend to
1:05:51a librarian at my local library, and she was saying how she asked me about when are they
1:06:00going to make the iPad more advanced so it's more like a computer. That's literally what
1:06:05she said. And I, you know, I tried to explain to her that, you know, Microsoft is because
1:06:10they make PCs and they've sort of failed when it comes to the smartphone especially, but
1:06:16the tablet to a certain degree, that they're trying to now make PCs that are also tablets.
1:06:20The Surface is powered by Windows and the Surface Book, which is kind of a disaster
1:06:25in terms of being a tablet because it has very little battery life and it has to have
1:06:28a second processor and all this stuff, but Microsoft is committed to convergence because
1:06:32their business makes them, the strength of their business is in PCs, so they want to
1:06:37to converge them. Whereas Apple is still fighting it, right? Apple still wants to not make a
1:06:42toaster fridge. They want to have iOS devices and they want to have Macs. And so I started
1:06:47to wonder while I was talking to her, things like, you know, Apple's stated philosophy
1:06:53is we want to keep those things separately. What does it mean when the iPad sales are
1:06:57faltering like they are? Is that good for the Mac? Because they are making things like
1:07:01MacBook, which is obviously inspired by the iPad,
1:07:04but it's a Mac.
1:07:05Or do we think that's good for the Mac,
1:07:09or is that a concern that if the iPad is faltering,
1:07:14Apple might try to do something rash,
1:07:16like make a toaster fridge?
1:07:18- It is a good question, and I have a tendency
1:07:23to believe guys like Phil Schiller when they say
1:07:25we're gonna keep these things separate,
1:07:27but at the same time, you guys spoke about it last week,
1:07:30that free fall the iPad bends us in,
1:07:33I can't help but think the iPad Pro, to a degree,
1:07:36was a reaction to that.
1:07:37I think the iPad Pro's a great product.
1:07:39I, like you and Myke, bought one and love it.
1:07:43But I can't help but think that maybe this was a,
1:07:44"Hey, we need to try something new here.
1:07:46"Let's go bigger, let's put a keyboard on it,
1:07:48"let's make it more of a professional tool,"
1:07:52as opposed to maybe how people are using them now.
1:07:57But all that aside, for now at least,
1:07:59they are separate, and I think that the fact that
1:08:01the Mac has done so well for so long,
1:08:04it's what, 32 years?
1:08:08That's a heck of a run, and with OS X now being really
1:08:1415 years old or so, kind of depending on how you count it,
1:08:17that's a good run as well, and it's a very,
1:08:19in many ways a very stable platform,
1:08:22and a very mature platform.
1:08:24You see all this churn in iOS still of
1:08:28doing a lot of new things and trying new things,
1:08:31adding things like extensions and redoing the interface
1:08:35a couple years ago.
1:08:36You don't see that on the Mac as much now, right?
1:08:37The Mac has settled down.
1:08:39- Right.
1:08:40- And I think that's good.
1:08:41I think it's for people like you and I
1:08:42who depend on them every day.
1:08:44I'm kind of glad that the Mac's wild days
1:08:46seem to be behind it.
1:08:47I don't want them to roll out a new version of OS X
1:08:50and all of a sudden I have major compatibility issues
1:08:53with a bunch of the software I use.
1:08:55And that wasn't always the case.
1:08:58It really wasn't the case when I first came to the Mac.
1:09:01There was a lot of churn.
1:09:02I came right during the nine to 10 transition.
1:09:06I learned all the ins and outs of the classic Mac OS,
1:09:08and like, oh, that's going away, by the way.
1:09:11I know you just learned how to debug Apple Talk nodes,
1:09:16but that doesn't really matter anymore.
1:09:17- The first five years in any operating system
1:09:19are like the Wild West, and we got to see that
1:09:22in the early days of OS X, and then that happened
1:09:25in iOS and it's sort of, even on iOS it's shaking out,
1:09:28but in the Mac it's sort of shaken out.
1:09:31- Exactly.
1:09:32So, I mean, so you've got a 5K iMac,
1:09:34what do you hope to see from Apple
1:09:38with the Mac in the next year or so?
1:09:39- Well, that's, I'm curious about that.
1:09:41I mean, all these talk about like an iOS event in March
1:09:44or an Apple event in March, and I keep thinking,
1:09:47when are we gonna see that story
1:09:49about when new Macs are coming?
1:09:51Like, I would like to know when new Macs are coming.
1:09:53And nobody's talking about it.
1:09:55And I started to wonder, would there be new Macs
1:09:56at that event in March?
1:09:58Maybe, maybe not?
1:10:00I don't know.
1:10:01Does anybody care?
1:10:03Or is the iPhone, the iPhone and pushing the iPad,
1:10:07is that the focus and the Mac will happen
1:10:09on its own timeline?
1:10:10I mean, inside Apple, there's a Mac team.
1:10:13And there's a Mac PR team.
1:10:15Not just a Mac technical team, there's a Mac PR team.
1:10:20And there's an iPhone PR team,
1:10:21and there's an iPad PR team.
1:10:23So it's not like they would have to work together on that,
1:10:27or they can just go their own way
1:10:29and plan their own quiet or Mac rollout,
1:10:31and maybe it's not even an event,
1:10:33it's press briefings or something like that.
1:10:34But I do wonder about that.
1:10:36Everybody keeps talking about how they need to turn over,
1:10:38they need to turn over
1:10:39to the new Intel processor architecture.
1:10:41And they are, a lot of people are looking at Thunderbolt,
1:10:45and Thunderbolt 3, which is pin compatible
1:10:47or port compatible, plug compatible with USB-C, right?
1:10:51So I think all of us kind of hope that that's the big story on the Mac in 2016 is this move
1:10:59to the USB-C plug, but it's actually Thunderbolt 3, so it kind of can do anything.
1:11:06And I think that would be great.
1:11:08I also am really curious to see what happens with the MacBook and if they refashion it
1:11:14in some way and upgrade it, or if they just sort of let it ride and say, "Nope, it's
1:11:20still going to be what it is.
1:11:22Maybe they make that a Thunderbolt 3 port,
1:11:24but otherwise it's just sort of like,
1:11:25one port, that's it, sorry.
1:11:27It is what it is.
1:11:28Or if they go, well okay, two ports.
1:11:31Or if they just take the headphone jack away
1:11:33and laugh at us, I don't know.
1:11:34(laughing)
1:11:36- The MacBook I think is the most interesting one to look at.
1:11:39I'm with you, I really can't decide if this is going to be
1:11:42like that first MacBook Air,
1:11:44and then a couple years later they say,
1:11:45hey, you know what, we're going to keep the name,
1:11:47and we're going to keep this idea of being thin and light,
1:11:50but we've rebuilt the entire thing and it's been poured up.
1:11:53- That little drop down door is gone.
1:11:55- Oh my gosh.
1:11:56- Yeah, mm-hmm.
1:11:57- The iPod hard drive.
1:11:58Like, I don't want to run a computer on an iPod hard drive.
1:12:00It's a terrible idea.
1:12:02So I think the MacBooks is one to watch,
1:12:07but I do think this storyline of Skylake
1:12:09and Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C, that's an interesting one.
1:12:13For me, having a current MacBook Pro,
1:12:16part of this too is like,
1:12:17well, I have a Thunderbolt display at home,
1:12:19and I've got a Thunderbolt dock here at the office.
1:12:22Is all that stuff going to work if I buy a new MacBook Pro?
1:12:27Am I going to be able to adapt down to what I have now?
1:12:29Am I going to spend even more money
1:12:32if they also release a Retina Thunderbolt display
1:12:34that works with the new machines?
1:12:36Like if they do that, I am just, I'm in trouble.
1:12:39So I think, I feel like the Mac is like on the edge
1:12:42of this like big upgrade that we see
1:12:45every three, four, five years.
1:12:47I think we saw it when they went unibody,
1:12:48I think we saw it when they went retina,
1:12:50and I think we're going to see it again now,
1:12:51where sort of the underlying technologies
1:12:53that we've had for a long time, for several years now,
1:12:56are, it's time to get those changed out.
1:12:59And I think that's exciting.
1:13:00I hope that they have some products ready in March.
1:13:04I think they probably will, I think,
1:13:05but I do think the iOS is going to be the push,
1:13:08and maybe this will be a press release type thing.
1:13:10- I see some rumors, but they're like DigiTimes
1:13:12kind of rumors, so the batting average isn't fantastic,
1:13:15but there are rumors that we might see
1:13:17announcement of like the new MacBook and the 13-inch MacBook Pro with Skylake and USB-C
1:13:25Thunderbolt 3 at the March event, but who knows? Who knows whether they, Apple's going to calculate
1:13:31how they want to communicate that and is that the best place to talk about the Mac or are they
1:13:35better off kind of targeting? They do, right? We've seen them. They roll products out in all
1:13:40sorts of ways now. They do briefings and make announcements with press releases and embargo
1:13:45drops and sometimes they do events. So, you know, maybe they would mention something on
1:13:50stage in March or maybe they would wait until April or something and then announce it in
1:13:54some other way. But if those rumors are accurate, then that would be really nice because then
1:13:58we're seeing the beginning of a wave of Skylake and Thunderbolt 3 Mac updates that would carry
1:14:05us for the rest of the year, which would be, that would be awesome.
1:14:09I think so. So I guess we'll see, you know. I might actually, that might be enough to
1:14:14make me think that the MacBook is a product I might buy someday even though I don't like
1:14:17the keyboard.
1:14:18Um, that might be Thunderbolt, the Thunderbolt 3 and the ability to have that kind of, um,
1:14:23connection speed and power would be intriguing at least.
1:14:27I don't know.
1:14:28- Yeah, I think so.
1:14:29- Alright, we should do some Ask/Upgrade.
1:14:31- We should.
1:14:32- Even though Myke's not here.
1:14:34That's the first question is where's Myke?
1:14:35And the answer is in bed.
1:14:36- Still gone.
1:14:37- Still gone.
1:14:38He'll be back next week probably.
1:14:39Um, he's feeling better.
1:14:40We just need to get his voice better.
1:14:43Send him some honey and some lemon and some tea.
1:14:46Squirt the lemon in his eye, pour the honey on his face,
1:14:49and splash the tea on his chest.
1:14:52I think that's how you do it.
1:14:55This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by MailRoute.
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1:16:54All right, that's a first try at lasers, but uh, it was more like six. That was like a six gun.
1:17:03that was like an old west shoot them out hey there partner it's time for the lasers
1:17:07i definitely was doing finger guns as i said it like i'm not ashamed to
1:17:11okay admit that to lots of lots of people those were six shooters not lasers i'm just letting you
1:17:15know so well reload them it's different here in the south jeff asks will apple release an ipad
1:17:22air 3 keyboard at launch um wow well if they've got a smart connector there's got to be something
1:17:31attached to it right why would they put a smart connect the rumor is that
1:17:34there'll be a smart connector on the iPad Air 3 why would you do that and
1:17:37have no no accessories for it so I'm going to say yes I wonder what that will
1:17:43be I wonder how you can do that because it can't be a full-sized keyboard for
1:17:47that but maybe instead they'll do something just thinking off the top of
1:17:51my head maybe they'll have a partner something like the logitech create
1:17:54keyboard maybe they'll have a partner perhaps even logitech that has a keyboard
1:17:58that you sort of snap into a case and it's a full-size keyboard and you put the Air 3
1:18:03in it, maybe a Create 4 iPad Air 3, because the problem is if you do it as a cover, it's
1:18:10not going to be a full-size keyboard because the iPad Air is smaller than the iPad Pro,
1:18:15so the keyboard has to be smaller. So that would be, if I had to predict, that's what
1:18:19my prediction would be, is that they'll work with a partner instead.
1:18:22- Yeah, I tend to agree.
1:18:24I think the width issue is the only thing that really
1:18:29breaks this smaller smart keyboard down for me.
1:18:32Where the iPad Pro smart keyboard is pretty nice to type on
1:18:36because you have the width of a regular keyboard,
1:18:39but by the time you put the keyboard in it,
1:18:41you have all the stuff that goes around it,
1:18:43and you got to fold it up and everything,
1:18:45it's going to be a little squished.
1:18:47Apple made such a big deal about this is a full-size
1:18:49keyboard, they always push that language.
1:18:52be weird for them to say, "Oh, this is almost what we usually sell, but it's like 70% the
1:18:58size. Sorry." Maybe they'll do it, but my guess is that they'll have some other sort
1:19:04of solution to get around it where the keyboard can be wider than the iPad itself.
1:19:07- Unless the keyboard unfolds or something. - That'd be very exciting.
1:19:12- But it seems unlikely. That's my feeling. But thanks, Jeff.
1:19:17Michael not our Michael another Michael properly spelled Michael are there any
1:19:24classic a Mac slash Apple devices you'd love to use again if stuffed with modern
1:19:28specs and features Wow it's a good one good question I would love even though
1:19:36the screen would be small I would love a I would love a an original iPhone with
1:19:43modern specs I think that would be amazing because I love the design of the
1:19:48original iPhone it's got some issues it's got some compromises but I do love
1:19:53it so that would be something I would try I do have a fourth generation iPod
1:19:57that I installed a flash drive in so it's got you know huge capacity and
1:20:02doesn't make any you know spinning up noises and vibrations or anything like
1:20:06that because it's entirely solid state now and that's kind of fun because it's
1:20:09It's a big iPod, but there's nothing in it.
1:20:12It's super light.
1:20:13And in terms of other stuff, I don't know.
1:20:18My real answer, my non-fantasy answer is
1:20:23I'd really like my 11-inch MacBook Air to be Retina.
1:20:27Honestly, yeah.
1:20:28- You'd like a current computer to be modern.
1:20:32- Yeah, I would like my 11-inch MacBook Air.
1:20:34I don't even need new ports and stuff in it,
1:20:37and it's got an i7 in it.
1:20:38a very powerful system. I would love a retina screen in it like that is in the
1:20:43MacBook. That would be my dream because that would be make it a much better
1:20:47system if it was just retina. What about you, Steven? For me the the hardware
1:20:52device that comes to mind almost immediately is the iMac G4. So those
1:20:57playing along at home, it's not like the Bondi Blue iMac, it was a white like a
1:21:02like a volleyball cut in half. Yeah, a sawed-off volleyball, yeah. Exactly. And the arm,
1:21:07there was a chrome arm and an LCD floated above it,
1:21:11so you could have the display at any angle you wanted to.
1:21:15I have one of these, unfortunately the neck
1:21:17has sort of lost its rigidity, so it sort of droops,
1:21:19but it's still a stunning design,
1:21:21and the beauty of it is you could do basically anything
1:21:24with it that was comfortable for you,
1:21:26so people used it real down low and hunched over,
1:21:28so people brought it all the way up,
1:21:30and it was just really flexible,
1:21:31someone could sit down next to you
1:21:32and you could basically just push the edge
1:21:34of the display away from you, and it would pivot over,
1:21:36so you could show your deskmate or something
1:21:38what you were working on.
1:21:39- Huh.
1:21:40- It was a really, just a great looking machine,
1:21:43and one that I think would be,
1:21:46I think it'd be fun to have a modern equivalent to it,
1:21:48because a G4, not so modern anymore.
1:21:51- No.
1:21:52- I did have one other answer though.
1:21:54I'm gonna take the spirit of Michael's question
1:21:56and apply it to software.
1:21:57I think that HyperCard would be
1:21:59really great to bring back,
1:22:02and HyperCard did a bunch of things.
1:22:04We'll put a Wikipedia link in the show notes
1:22:06so you can kind of read up on it.
1:22:08But HyperCard was the place that so many people
1:22:12first learned about programming.
1:22:13And not in the sense that you're sitting down
1:22:15and writing code, but in the way that I have this data
1:22:17and I need to manipulate it this way.
1:22:19I need it to trigger something else over here
1:22:22and build this thing for me here.
1:22:23And the ability to link things together
1:22:26was really revolutionary for a lot of people, I think.
1:22:30and it, you know, Automator has some of that spirit in it
1:22:35where you can get into Automator, do some of this,
1:22:36of course, AppleScript has a lot of this in it as well,
1:22:39but the HyperCard interface and the way that it was
1:22:42put together, I think, just really clicked
1:22:44with so many people who are admittedly older than I am,
1:22:47but made a big difference in a lot of people's
1:22:51like computing experience and I think got a lot of people
1:22:55hooked into sort of programming
1:22:56and making the computer work for them,
1:22:58And I think that the Mac, and I think especially iOS,
1:23:01could benefit from something like this,
1:23:02where you could go in and create little programs
1:23:04and do a little bit of development work
1:23:07to solve a problem that only you have,
1:23:10but in a way that's not at all, I guess, intimidating.
1:23:14You know, if I think about learning how to write an app,
1:23:18it's really intimidating to think about,
1:23:19and HyperCard sort of had a real low barrier to entry.
1:23:22I think that was a pretty unique combination of things.
1:23:25- Yeah, there have been a lot of attempts
1:23:28to create a hypercard for the web,
1:23:31which, or a cloud hypercard, a hypercard web app,
1:23:37and I don't know, I mean, this is, it's interesting,
1:23:40the idea of something, you could argue in some ways
1:23:43that the web is kind of hypercard-y,
1:23:45but it's too complicated as it is.
1:23:47So, yeah, and if you search, you can see
1:23:51lots of think pieces over the last five years
1:23:53saying the web needs a hypercard,
1:23:55iPad needs a hypercard. But you know, having, there is power to having something that just
1:24:01comes on your device that lets you, especially if you're a kid, like, create some really
1:24:07basic, often kind of dumb stuff, the equivalent of what I did on my Apple II of, you know,
1:24:1110 print "Hello, 20, go to 10." "Oh, look, it says hello a lot forever until you break
1:24:17the program." But you need, you should have something like that. And so yeah, that's a
1:24:22Cool idea, that's definitely something that would be fun,
1:24:25if you could use your magic wand,
1:24:27create a modern HyperCard somewhere.
1:24:30Justin asks, "How do the speakers on the iPad Pro
1:24:35"compared to the speakers in Mac laptops?"
1:24:38- Yeah, actually, last night,
1:24:42played the same song on my iPad Pro,
1:24:44and then I have the 15-inch MacBook Pro,
1:24:46but the speaker modules are basically the same.
1:24:50Only the 15-inches have a grill.
1:24:51Anyways, I digress.
1:24:53I will say the Mac speakers are still better,
1:24:56but not by much.
1:24:57The iPad Pro is world better,
1:25:00both in terms of volume and clarity
1:25:03than any other iOS device.
1:25:05They're really giving the laptops a run for their money.
1:25:09It's interesting, the iPad Pro, if you're not familiar,
1:25:12has speakers on both ends of it.
1:25:14So if you're in landscape,
1:25:16and it's like watching something on Netflix,
1:25:19The sound sort of comes from everywhere around you.
1:25:23It's really pretty great.
1:25:24- And the stereo effect is really noticeable.
1:25:26- Yeah, it's so much better than what we have now on iPads,
1:25:30on other iPads, but it was sort of funny,
1:25:32sitting on the couch the other night
1:25:33watching something on Netflix,
1:25:34and my wife was like, "That seems loud."
1:25:37I was like, "Oh, yeah, because generally,
1:25:38"like the way I sat on the couch,
1:25:40"the speaker would fire towards the back of the couch,
1:25:43"like just the way I was holding my iPad
1:25:44"and the way I was sitting,
1:25:45"and now it kind of comes out from both sides."
1:25:47And it was sort of just a funny little example
1:25:49of how the iPad Pro speakers have changed.
1:25:52It's definitely a huge improvement,
1:25:56and I would say if they're not already as good
1:25:57as the Notebooks, the MacBook Pros,
1:26:00it's definitely neck and neck at this point, I think.
1:26:04- And I only have MacBook Airs in this house,
1:26:06and it's better than those.
1:26:07- Yeah, the MacBook Air speaker is not very good.
1:26:10- No.
1:26:11- I will say the MacBook, the little one,
1:26:13and my wife has one, the speakers in that thing
1:26:15are really good, especially considering the size.
1:26:18better than the Air.
1:26:18You know, the Air speaker's actually like,
1:26:21inside the aluminum case, and they like fire
1:26:23through the case, and it's kind of strange.
1:26:24But anyways.
1:26:25- Yeah, up through the keyboard or something, it's weird.
1:26:29- Yeah, it's like, it's so close to being a direct line,
1:26:32but not so much.
1:26:34- Alright, one last question, yeah.
1:26:36- Yeah, hmm.
1:26:37Chris wants to know, what is your perfect pizza?
1:26:42- Well, my perfect pizza has gluten in it, Steven,
1:26:44I'll tell you that.
1:26:45- And dairy.
1:26:46- And dairy.
1:26:47- That's a sad, sad question for me.
1:26:49- Yeah, ouch.
1:26:50Sorry to bring it up.
1:26:53My perfect pizza, I don't know, I'll say homemade dough
1:26:57'cause I make my own pizza dough and I do like it.
1:27:01And I'd say my perfect pizza is,
1:27:04oh, Joe Steele is in the chat room, I hope, right now.
1:27:07My favorite pizza is pepperoni and pineapple.
1:27:10And so I would, that would be it.
1:27:12It would be pepperoni and pineapple pizza.
1:27:14I love it.
1:27:15And it's perfect, and that would really be it.
1:27:18That would be my perfect pizza.
1:27:20John Siracusa would, at this point, say, "That's not a pizza.
1:27:23I don't care.
1:27:24That would be my perfect pizza."
1:27:25Ah, I miss pizza.
1:27:28Yeah, yeah, and you can't...
1:27:30The thing is, you could get a gluten-free crust that would probably be okay.
1:27:35They're terrible.
1:27:36But then, they're, "Well..."
1:27:39But the cheese would make it all better, but you can't have the dairy either.
1:27:42It's true.
1:27:43And vegan cheese is the worst.
1:27:45So I have not found a single one that is edible.
1:27:48So I've just given it up.
1:27:51- Yeah, so your perfect pizza is one full of gluten
1:27:53and dairy that you can digest.
1:27:55- Yeah, exactly.
1:27:56- A dream pizza, if you will.
1:27:58- Yes.
1:28:00If I had a different body, then I could eat pizza again.
1:28:02But I don't.
1:28:04- Oh well, maybe virtual reality can help.
1:28:06I don't know how that would be.
1:28:08- What are you looking forward to in VR?
1:28:10Baking, eating pizza.
1:28:11- Yeah, 10 virtual pizza, that's it.
1:28:13That's the answer, we solved it.
1:28:14- That seems like a good place to end the show.
1:28:16- I feel like it is.
1:28:17Thank you for filling in for Myke.
1:28:19This, at the last minute, we appreciate it.
1:28:21We both hoped that Myke would be better today,
1:28:24and he's better, but he's not good enough yet.
1:28:28Thanks for being on.
1:28:30- It's always fun.
1:28:31- I will talk to you again later,
1:28:34because we're gonna do a lift-off.
1:28:37We do a podcast called Lift-Off.
1:28:38It also posts on Mondays every other week,
1:28:41And so if you're interested in space stuff,
1:28:44you should listen to that podcast,
1:28:45because it's pretty good, and Steven and I do it.
1:28:48- It's true, and this next episode is gonna be special.
1:28:52- Yeah, I'm gonna go visit a NASA facility,
1:28:54and then I will report back next week about it.
1:28:57- Gonna be the reporter in the field.
1:28:58- Yeah, apparently so, that's pretty exciting.
1:29:00They're not shooting me into space or anything, though.
1:29:02I'm just gonna go be on the ground.
1:29:04Keep my feet on the ground.
1:29:05- You weren't copied on that email?
1:29:06- No, no.
1:29:08- Keep my mouth shut.
1:29:09- Okay, well, that's a really special episode then.
1:29:10Alright, well, so thanks to everybody out there for listening to Upgrade.
1:29:14You can of course send us feedback on Twitter.
1:29:17We are @_upgradefm.
1:29:20You can use the hashtag #askupgrade.
1:29:22I am @jsnell on Twitter.
1:29:24Myke is @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.
1:29:27Steven is @ismh, so you can find him there.
1:29:31And you can of course read all about us at relay.fm/upgrade/75 or in your podcast.
1:29:37I have a choice for the show notes.
1:29:39And that's about it. Thanks to our sponsors, Casper, FreshBooks, and MailRoute. And we
1:29:44will see you next week. Say goodbye, Stephen Hackett.
1:29:47Adios.
1:29:47us.
1:29:54[Music]
1:30:01[Music]