0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 73. Today's show is brought to you by Mail Route and
0:00:15Freshbooks. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Jason Snell from Arizona.
0:00:20From Arizona, yes. I'm in the Phoenix Bureau today. Hi, how are you?
0:00:24How is the Phoenix Bureau?
0:00:25you know it's fine it's not you know i come to arizona and i kind of would like it to be
0:00:29wonderfully warm and uh sort of summer breezes all year round but it's uh only about five or
0:00:36ten degrees warmer than it is at home so you know it's it's just uh a different location drier
0:00:42drier and hotter yep out in the desert not i would like it to be even hotter than it is but it's not
0:00:50i'm sorry about that that's okay in the summer it's ridiculously hot so it's better to visit in
0:00:55in the winter, I think. I have, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull back
0:01:01from my original claim of no more muffins discussion. Yeah, I was surprised that you
0:01:06put this in the show notes because I thought we were going to just sort of walk whistling
0:01:10past the muffin feedback, but, uh... Yeah, I just figured, Chris asked, and I figured
0:01:14maybe I have eaten the muffins now. They have been consumed. So I figured I should at least
0:01:19just tell everyone that I enjoyed them. Okay. That's kind of it. I enjoyed the muffins.
0:01:24I had them with Jam, I toasted them.
0:01:26Edina had one.
0:01:28She seemed to like it too, but we haven't bought anymore.
0:01:32Oh, all right.
0:01:33But we did go to a bakery over the weekend and they were everywhere.
0:01:36It was so funny.
0:01:37It's like I can't escape them now.
0:01:39What is that German term for when you see something everywhere?
0:01:42There is a term for that.
0:01:44I always bring this up, but can never remember the term.
0:01:48It's like once you've seen something, oh, it's the beta meinhof phenomenon.
0:01:53When you see something or you think about something or you discover something, you see it everywhere.
0:01:59Like a lot of people say like, "You want to get a new car and you have a car that you want and then
0:02:04you just see that car on the road constantly." That's what I'm like with muffins now. I see
0:02:09muffins everywhere I go. We actually have that with dogs. We got a boxer and now we see boxers
0:02:16everywhere. Now we see them. They were apparently always there and we just never noticed them,
0:02:21but now that we have one, we see them everywhere.
0:02:25It is a non-exclusive phenomenon. It can be dogs, cars, muffins. The beta-minor phenomenon
0:02:31happens to everything.
0:02:32Yeah, that's good. It would be weird if it just happened to muffins. Why would they even
0:02:37call it that?
0:02:38The beta-muffin phenomenon.
0:02:40Oh, we're off the rails already.
0:02:44I think that would be more like the muffins-skone hypothesis. Something like that.
0:02:50again on Twitter, I wanted to know, and I meant to bring this up last week but completely
0:02:53forgot, where did you get your custom keycaps from, like the beautiful orange ones, and
0:02:58then today you went ahead and wrote a little blog post about your beautiful KillKey keyboard
0:03:04and it has even more orange keycaps than previous.
0:03:07Yes, the orange keycaps have increased.
0:03:10It's like there's some kind of illness in the keyboard.
0:03:14It's spreading, the orange is spreading, it's a citrus keyboard disease.
0:03:19So as the recap, I bought this Leopold 660M, I think it's a ten-keyless mechanical keyboard.
0:03:27It's got cherry blue switches, it's a clinky, clacky, loud keyboard and I'm really enjoying
0:03:32it.
0:03:34But it came, it was a black keyboard with black keys, just all black.
0:03:38It's a Darth Vader keyboard and I thought, and it's a Windows keyboard so it's got a
0:03:42Windows logo and it's got an Alt key and it's got these keys that don't really fit my Mac
0:03:48lifestyle.
0:03:49did was I ordered some custom keycaps and you can get the custom keycaps are
0:03:54available all over the place it turns out. I have fallen into a rabbit hole of
0:03:58finicky clicky keyboard ways to spend money including massdrop.com which has a
0:04:05lot of group sales of keyboard stuff I've discovered but the orange keys in
0:04:12particular are from WASD keyboards which is the maker of the code keyboard and a
0:04:18bunch of other mechanical keyboards and then they also sell keycaps they have
0:04:22keycap sets. Are these the guys that do the one with no markings on the top? Yes.
0:04:28What is that? I don't get that. Yeah that's somebody asked me about that today on Twitter and
0:04:32said I think that's I think that's showing off a little bit much I don't I
0:04:36don't approve of unlabeled keys even though I almost never look at my keycaps
0:04:41they should be labeled. To buy a keyboard that specifically has no labels
0:04:46is showing off.
0:04:48Yeah, it is.
0:04:50And they have custom, so I wish it was a little more
0:04:54self-serve. I would love it if I could do custom keycaps, like upload
0:04:58a file and say, "Here's the size of the keycap and the color, and
0:05:02here's what I want on it, and print that for me." And they don't do that, but
0:05:06they have keycap sets, and they've got some blank keys that you can get.
0:05:10And so that's how I got the, you know, I have the Command key instead
0:05:14instead of the alt key, and I removed the windows key and replaced it with a blank,
0:05:21because I'd rather have a blank option key than an option key with the windows logo on
0:05:25it, because I just feel that's right.
0:05:28How come you could get a command key but not an option key?
0:05:31That's kind of strange, right?
0:05:32Well, one of the weird things is that part of it is that the option is alt, and so it's
0:05:38harder to get an option key and get an option key in the style that matches.
0:05:43And the challenge for me with the Leopold keyboard is that it's got to be the 1x1
0:05:49key size and I think that's, in the corners of this funny little keyboard there are some
0:05:54non-standard key sizes or at least less common key sizes.
0:05:58And so WASD's keyboards have a different sized key down there.
0:06:02So I think it would be, I think I could probably get an orange option key to fit that spot
0:06:08but I would probably have to order like a $15 set of 20 keys, one of which I would use
0:06:16and the rest of them I would not use and that seemed pointless when I could just order a
0:06:19blank.
0:06:20So I just ordered the blank and it's fine.
0:06:23It's fine.
0:06:24So now I've got this kind of cool orange and black keyboard and I did, I added more.
0:06:27I just had the arrow keys and the command keys before and now I have all the numbers
0:06:30and letters and so it's just kind of some of the modifiers that are still in black and
0:06:35I like it.
0:06:36I like how it looks.
0:06:37Honestly, these keycaps, they're actually a little bit taller than the keycaps that
0:06:41came with the keyboard, and they feel better.
0:06:44They feel like they're of a better material.
0:06:45Yeah, you can see that they're different looking, I think.
0:06:48Yeah, and I ordered them with Mac-style labeling on them, so they've got the letter right
0:06:53in the center rather than a lot of PC-style keyboards or standard-style keyboards that
0:06:59do it a little differently.
0:07:00It feels a little more like a Mac keyboard, which is what I was going for.
0:07:04One thing on the option key, whilst we're in complete keyboard
0:07:08nerdery, did you know that like in the UK we actually don't have option written on
0:07:15the key?
0:07:16What does it say?
0:07:17It's alt and it has the little symbol.
0:07:20Oh, but it has the little option symbol.
0:07:22It has the option symbol but it says alt.
0:07:24It doesn't say the word option on it.
0:07:26Okay, but it's got the, yeah, okay, so that works.
0:07:29Ours, I'm looking at my MacBook Air right now and it has alt and option on it, but I
0:07:34I like the little option symbol.
0:07:37I would get a key with that.
0:07:38I would totally pay $5 or something to get an orange key for my option key that was the
0:07:44option symbol, but I haven't been able to find that.
0:07:47So yeah, I think that key has a lot of names, right?
0:07:51Because it's the Alt key for Windows users, and I'm a little confused about why that is
0:07:57labeled as Alt even by Apple.
0:07:59Why not just call it option, put the option symbol on it and be done with it, but they
0:08:03They don't do that.
0:08:04Yeah.
0:08:05Keyboards, man.
0:08:06How do they work?
0:08:07They're pretty weird.
0:08:08Yeah.
0:08:09I have to say, I've been looking at this and I'm like, "I think I would like a clackety
0:08:13keyboard, but I would never, ever use it, so it's just not a road I'm going to go down."
0:08:18No, you don't write a lot and you podcast.
0:08:23As I said last week, I now have to have a podcasting keyboard because I can't use that
0:08:29keyboard when I'm podcasting because you can hear it very clearly.
0:08:34Although I do like the clackety sound that the smart cover keyboard makes.
0:08:39It makes a sound like it's more like a slapping sound.
0:08:42It's a kind of strange noise, but I like it anyway.
0:08:45Tactile feedback is a good thing.
0:08:46That's why, you know, even though we may inevitably end up all typing on glass as our primary,
0:08:52that may be where we're just going.
0:08:55There is something to be said.
0:08:56I mean that's why I went to this is it on one level it seems like a total throwback to the old the old days
0:09:00but what you get out of it is
0:09:02Feel and sound and that that feels it feels and sounds good and and so, you know
0:09:10It's not for everybody but but I'm loving it
0:09:12Piece follow-up from a show. I think it's maybe last week all the week before I can't remember
0:09:17The chapters app that we mentioned is now available in the Mac App Store, right?
0:09:23I'll put a link to chaptersapp.com where you can find out more information and also there's links in the Mac apps on now
0:09:29So you can go and download it. I believe it's on sale right now as we record
0:09:33I think it was like 10 or 11 pounds or something like that, which I'm pleased to see
0:09:37That it's priced at a good price, you know, like a professional tool price, you know, yeah the special utility
0:09:44I should say this is a product for people who are making podcasts and one put chapters in their podcasts. Yeah, and
0:09:50it shouldn't be a $2 app because you know it's a tool for people who are taking their podcast
0:09:57creation seriously and you don't have to use it. So if you care enough to want to put chapter
0:10:02markers in your in your mp3s for your podcast then I think $15 is not too much to ask.
0:10:07Yeah, yeah I agree. It's such a niche. It's a niche utility even amongst podcasters.
0:10:15So I'm pleased that it exists because this stuff should be more accessible because it is really
0:10:22difficult to do and some of the web tools like Orphonic that exist are not really that great to
0:10:28use and this is a better experience. So if you are a podcaster, obviously just checking it out
0:10:35or having it in your arsenal. Whilst we don't do chapters a lot on the shows that we do here,
0:10:41we do them when we feel that they're necessary and it's always good to have a tool around
0:10:46to be able to do that sort of stuff with.
0:10:49I recommend it.
0:10:50>> Somebody asked me like should we, you know, should every podcast have chapters and you
0:10:54know, I'm with you, I feel like chapter, we always have joked about that Germans want
0:11:01chapter markers because a lot of popular podcasts in Germany have chapters and tools, podcasting
0:11:06tools in Germany and other parts of Europe have built support in, but now it's become
0:11:14more broadly supported.
0:11:16Still it really needs to be your content needs to make sense for chapters, and a lot of the
0:11:20wide-ranging discussions we have don't necessarily fit.
0:11:23I mean, this week's incomparable, I didn't put chapters in it because it was really one
0:11:26discussion and I didn't feel a need, but if we were talking about five different subjects,
0:11:31I would probably drop in a bunch of chapter markers.
0:11:34So it's not for everyone, but it can be very useful.
0:11:39Clockwise is perfect.
0:11:41Yes, exactly.
0:11:43It fits.
0:11:44There's four distinct topics and it's nice to jump from thing to thing.
0:11:48It makes sense in there.
0:11:50So we've used it like it was great for the upgrade, these different awards, it was all
0:11:53kind of nicely broken up like that.
0:11:55Right.
0:11:56So yeah, I liked it.
0:11:57Did a good job.
0:11:58So that is now available.
0:11:59People should go and check it out.
0:12:01Absolutely.
0:12:02All right, should we take a break?
0:12:04Yeah, let's do it.
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0:15:01of upgrade and relay fm it's german time oh yes it is he we were waiting for this and uh mr german
0:15:11has come out with a whole host of rumors and reports and that kind of thing over the last
0:15:17couple of days the first and this is all based around stuff that they say is going to be happening
0:15:23in the spring. So the first is Apple is developing and readying what is being dubbed currently as the
0:15:31iPhone 5SE for a kind of a March/April time and it's basically the updated iPhone 5S with a bunch
0:15:39of the six features. What do you think of the name 5SE? Now, Germin's saying that Apple's saying this
0:15:46this will stand for special edition.
0:15:49- Mm, sure.
0:15:51I don't know, it's weird.
0:15:52It's weird.
0:15:55I guess what it means is that if it looks,
0:15:59the strange thing is the suggestion that it might not look,
0:16:01that it might look more like a six than a five.
0:16:05- Yeah, they're gonna,
0:16:06what it seems is they're at least gonna be
0:16:08curving the glass on the front.
0:16:10- Yeah, I don't entirely understand it
0:16:12because you could argue that it means,
0:16:15what does iPhone five mean?
0:16:16versus iPhone 6 is what I struggle with here.
0:16:19If this thing is called the 5SE and it looks more or less like a 5,
0:16:23then you're sort of saying,
0:16:24"Well, really it's not the processor and the features that are inside it, it's the look."
0:16:29And this will look like a 5, and so we're going to call it a 5. It's the 5SE.
0:16:34But if they're curving the glass, is it going to look like a 5, or is it going to look
0:16:38more like the 6?
0:16:40Maybe not. Maybe it's going to look a little different on the front, but it's
0:16:43going to look very similar on the back.
0:16:45I don't know it's a little bit surprising.
0:16:48At the same time it firmly places it at the bottom of the hierarchy as the, you know,
0:16:54this is like the old 5.
0:16:56It is a smaller phone than the 6 models and maybe that's important.
0:17:01I don't know in the long run how you handle that and if you just have iPhone 5s in the
0:17:06price list forever or what.
0:17:12So I'm trying to parse like what does it mean, what does this name mean, and how it might
0:17:17affect things in the long run.
0:17:19But in the short term, it's not that bad a name in the sense that it just is an extension
0:17:24on the 5S.
0:17:25It's like, look, we did a refresh to the 5S to make it a little more modern, because some
0:17:31people really like the 5S and they like the size of it.
0:17:33I can hear them saying that.
0:17:34So, you know, they just, it sounds a little like Special Edition, you're right, which
0:17:38is kind of funny.
0:17:39But you know, I don't know. What do you think?
0:17:43I love the name and I think I'm in the minority. I like 5SE and I like 5 Special Edition. I
0:17:50think that sounds great. I just like that kind of different branding for it. Special
0:17:56Edition's kind of cool, right? Because it's kind of like, "Ah, you're the one with the
0:18:00Special Edition 5." There's something about that for me, which works from a marketing
0:18:05perspective because if it's gonna be pretty much the same as the 5s even if
0:18:12there's gonna be some cosmetic changes but maybe not too many I mean my kind of
0:18:16imagination of this is like some kind of not in an ugly way but Frankenstein
0:18:21device like it looks of like a 5s at the back and the six at the front yeah right
0:18:25yeah like they just removed the chamfer on the front and it's glass now but
0:18:29the chamfer still on the back that's kind of what I assume this is gonna look
0:18:32like. But we'll have to wait and see on that. I mean I'd be very surprised if they went
0:18:37a whole way to create a brand new phone like they did with the C. But I don't know, we'll
0:18:43see. I explained all of these rumors to Adina and she is very happy to hear that this product
0:18:49is going to exist. Because she is a 5S user and she's complaining about her battery life,
0:18:56she knows she needs an upgrade. But she cannot go to a 6, her hands are way too small, she
0:19:00just wouldn't be able to do it. She would have to use a six as a two-handed device.
0:19:03Like there's just no way it would work for her. So she's really happy to hear about it.
0:19:08But that yeah, but that branding, I really like the branding. Do you think it's a, it
0:19:12is a like a callback to the Mac SE? No, no, you don't think that? Like it's just a happy
0:19:18coincidence? Yeah, I think so. Someone on the marketing team knew that that was happening
0:19:24though, right? They can't ignore it. They had a Macintosh SE and nobody died. It was
0:19:28all fine so we could name it that and it would be people wouldn't care I I think
0:19:34it's it's yeah it's interesting it's a weird product because we're talking
0:19:38about Apple kind of going backward but also forward so it's a yeah it's a funny
0:19:43thing I think it's great because I think there are a lot of people out there like
0:19:46Adina who really want a smaller phone I think that's a valid size and offering
0:19:51an iPhone in that size that's got a little more modern tech inside it I
0:19:54I think it's good. I think it's a good thing.
0:19:56Yeah, because the next one, which was a post today,
0:19:59is that the 5SE is likely to include the A9 and M9 chips,
0:20:04which is great because then they're bringing it up closer to spec, right?
0:20:09Yeah.
0:20:10Which is fantastic. I mean, you want it to be a better device.
0:20:13You want it to be faster, you want it to be more capable.
0:20:17If they would have just updated the design and then maybe put an A8 in there,
0:20:21you know, we'll probably look at an A10 and the iPhone 7 so it would have been two
0:20:27revolutions behind. Right, what you want you you want to have it be like it's
0:20:33like the iPad Pro update is you don't want to let a brand new product go to
0:20:38the work of making a new product and having it be two steps behind. One step
0:20:41is okay but you don't want it be two because six months from now it will be
0:20:45two steps behind if you do that so you know you you don't want to end up with
0:20:49it three steps behind. So this makes sense that if you're going to, uh, if
0:20:54you're going to release this product and have it be go through the trouble of
0:20:58engineering a new product, right? Instead of just making the old phone that you'd
0:21:04want to give it some life. And so by putting the, the a nine in it now, then,
0:21:09you know, the other phones, it's not going to get an update in the fall. So it's
0:21:12going to fall behind immediately, but that's okay because it's not going to be
0:21:16that far behind and it's got the stuff that you'd expect it's got the kind of
0:21:19always on Ahoy telephone and you know the motion coprocessor so you can do
0:21:24your your pedometer and you know it's got Apple pay and it's got you know it's
0:21:31it's an iPhone with all of the features of the iPhone so that's a good thing
0:21:36even if it's not in six months it's not on the same hardware it's not like
0:21:41hopelessly behind where you know because at some point Adina would need a new
0:21:45phone and she'd look at that iPhone 5 and say well I'm not getting that that
0:21:49why would I get that it's just the old phone yeah so at some point you need to
0:21:53have even if the size even if it's a cheaper model even if you know the size
0:21:57is the smaller size it needs to be somewhere in with inhaling distance of
0:22:04current technology yeah and what I also like is that they're gonna be bringing
0:22:10Apple Pay and Live Photos to this device. So it is kind of being treated like a current
0:22:16generation product, right? Like it's not being left behind and whilst it won't have 3D Touch,
0:22:23they will probably do the implementation of Live Photos to view them as you can now, which
0:22:27is if you long press on a non-3D Touch device, the Live Photo works, but this device will
0:22:33be able to take them, which is excellent I think.
0:22:36Yeah, I think this is all good news and this is how...
0:22:41This goes, I mean I mentioned the iPads earlier, but this goes to Apple's kind of modern product
0:22:45philosophy from the last few years, which is old products don't die.
0:22:49They just kind of use the old products to create a spread in the product line.
0:22:54That's sort of what we're seeing with this.
0:22:56It's a new product, but it's really just sort of filling in one of these niches that comes
0:23:01from the old product being a little bit too old now, but they want to keep that slot around.
0:23:06Just like you know we've got three new iPad models plus a couple of old iPad models that are for sale
0:23:13So it totally fits in in this approach. It is a lot less simpler an approach
0:23:18Than what Apple used to do, but it allows them to hit a whole bunch of different market segments something
0:23:25I like from the report
0:23:26This is a quote from Gorman also contrary to the rumors
0:23:29The device is not a preview of the iPhone 7 as it will mostly retain the 5s design and still include a headphone jack
0:23:35jack.
0:23:36Burn.
0:23:37Yeah, well, also that's kind of like that like, uh, non-denial denial type thing, right?
0:23:45Like, he's just put that in there.
0:23:47He hasn't, like, German hasn't come out and said one way or the other what he knows about
0:23:51that, but that's very much a wink-wink type thing.
0:23:55I mean, I read that and I'm like, um, you know, this thing hasn't got a headphone jack
0:23:59in it.
0:24:00Right?
0:24:01The 7 just hasn't at this point for me.
0:24:03I think 9to5Mac has reported that, but not without Germin Byline, and I just sort of
0:24:08assumed that, just in terms of who writes for that site, that if Germin felt like that
0:24:16report was bad, he would probably have said something, and they ran the report.
0:24:23So...
0:24:24I mean, I don't know.
0:24:26There's a part of me that's like, I just see it as like separate.
0:24:29He's... I pretty much, the way I look at that now is he has run of whatever he wants to
0:24:35do and I think he's mainly separate because, I mean we spoke about this a bunch of times,
0:24:39like, German is so well connected and he's so good at what he does, it is interesting
0:24:43that he continues to write under somebody else's banner, but that's what he does, so
0:24:49when I look at it I just feel like he only ever does these kind of pieces now, so I think
0:24:55he pretty much is just involved at that level.
0:24:58I just assume that behind the scenes, you know, I would like to believe that if they've
0:25:01got a major Apple rumor report and you're the site that employs Mark Gurman, that you
0:25:05probably would have him see it and, you know, say "definitely not" or "let me check that"
0:25:14or something just to save you from printing something that was totally bogus.
0:25:20But it is, yeah, anyway, it is interesting that this is a reference, although you could
0:25:24read this as a sly reference to the other reports on the site and not
0:25:27necessarily specific confirmation just sort of like putting in the context of
0:25:32the other site reports I don't know how that all works because different people
0:25:35have different you know they may be different writers maybe maybe more
0:25:40competitors than allies at some sites that that is the case too so I don't
0:25:44know what the what the backstory is there but but yeah that was a good good
0:25:47pickup that you got he's definitely putting in the context of iPhone 7 with
0:25:51with the no headphone jack. As well as this, also a kind of a report I
0:25:57wasn't expecting about the Apple Watch in that the Watch 2 will be coming in September,
0:26:04which I really didn't want. I don't want there to be another full product.
0:26:08There were rumors that it was coming in the spring.
0:26:10Yeah, well, because what's happening is, they're gonna… I think maybe where it
0:26:15potentially got confused is at whatever is happening in the spring, whether it be an
0:26:20event or whatever along with the 5SE they're gonna have Apple Watch stuff to talk about.
0:26:25So they're gonna have 2.2, they're gonna have apparently more watch bands and German's reported
0:26:30that made out of entirely new materials and more fashion partnerships beyond Hermes. So
0:26:36there's gonna be a lot of stuff to talk about with the watch like they have done in previous
0:26:41events but they're not actually bringing out Watch 2 and that will be coming with apparently
0:26:48a full redesign in the fall which is not what I'd heard, not what I've heard other people
0:26:54say and not what I expected. The Apple Watch is going to be long in the tooth come September.
0:27:03That will be two years since it was announced. A year and a half since it shipped. So it's
0:27:09effectively two years old, right? Because they couldn't have changed too much. Which
0:27:13Which is surprising, I wonder, and you know, I guess...
0:27:18I don't know if I would say that only because it was an unusual case because it was preannounced,
0:27:22but will we say that the, would we say that the iPhone 7 is a year old in next January
0:27:28because we will assume that they had prototypes and they knew roughly what it was going to
0:27:32be right now.
0:27:33Well, but they don't show it though, do they?
0:27:35Yeah, but the only difference is because they have an existing product that they don't want
0:27:38to cannibalize.
0:27:39This, the Apple Watch when they announced it didn't exist, right?
0:27:42I mean, it didn't really exist.
0:27:44It was still being worked on.
0:27:47And so I'm not sure that's entirely fair
0:27:50to start the countdown early for the announcement.
0:27:53Certainly story-wise, narrative-wise, just like,
0:27:57oh, the Apple Watch, I've heard of that.
0:27:59Hasn't that been around a couple of years?
0:28:01That will absolutely be the case.
0:28:02Our conception of the Apple Watch
0:28:04will have been the same for two years.
0:28:05But I would give them a little bit of credit.
0:28:08I mean, the hardware only started shipping
0:28:11less than a year ago. So before that it was, it was, you know, in process.
0:28:16I do this more as like, instead of more as a way of trying to wonder if the Apple Watch
0:28:22will become a yearly product or not. Because I don't know if it needs to.
0:28:30I feel like it really doesn't. But we also don't know how major an Apple Watch 2 is,
0:28:37And they will have done, if they do a spring refresh of materials and bands and things
0:28:43like that, then that will have been its third kind of product line refresh on top of the
0:28:49existing hardware.
0:28:50So what's the cycle there?
0:28:52Is it a six-month cycle or a four-month cycle, except the base hardware doesn't change?
0:28:58And how big is the change come September if we get to that point?
0:29:02Is it a real rethinking of the Apple Watch in terms of the hardware or is it just sort
0:29:07of a slight improvement?
0:29:09There's a lot of information that's still out here, but I kind of agree with you.
0:29:13I don't feel like this is a product that needs to get updated, certainly not every year,
0:29:17but can you go two years?
0:29:19Maybe you can if you're, every six months, if you're refreshing materials and updating
0:29:25the software.
0:29:26>> I feel like that this is a product that is different, and it's different because Apple
0:29:31thinks about it as a fashion product because they don't need to, you know, they release
0:29:36a new iPhone every year for whatever reason they do that. But now it's kind of expected
0:29:42because people want a new phone every year, right? So like they want the new thing, you
0:29:47know, and Apple builds their marketing campaigns around it, you know, like the whole success
0:29:50campaign is like everything about it is, you know, would I say everything about it is different
0:29:55or something along those lines, I can't remember the exact tagline. But you know, kind of talking
0:30:01about the fact that they keep doing it, they keep refreshing it.
0:30:05But the Apple Watch, you just have to keep bringing out new bands, right?
0:30:09And you bring out new bands and you put a new band on your watch, it looks like a different
0:30:13watch.
0:30:14And I think that you can keep doing that, keep it in line with season changes like the
0:30:18fashion industry, have the fall collection and have the summer collection.
0:30:22And I think that that would really work.
0:30:24You know, you do that a couple of times, maybe two or three times and then bring out a new
0:30:27body.
0:30:28And then Apple can still bring in the good money from the accessory sales.
0:30:34Yeah, this is a different move for them, but I think that the idea that you can do new
0:30:41watch bands and call it a sort of product line update, it's a very different thing
0:30:46than, I guess you could change the iPod colors, they did that a couple of times, but it's
0:30:51more like that, where this is a product where you can change some things around it and make
0:30:56some new materials or some new colors and that's fine because I don't think people are
0:31:02buying a new one of these, are going to buy a new one of these every six months or every
0:31:06year or maybe even every two years.
0:31:08So you just kind of keep iterating and providing people with more options and different options
0:31:14and they see something they like, they're going to buy it and it's still a work in progress.
0:31:19Apple may be still trying to figure this out too, right?
0:31:22Because what works in the tech industry or in the fashion industry may not be the same
0:31:27rules that something like an Apple Watch follows.
0:31:30It may be like a completely different beast.
0:31:33We don't know.
0:31:35So these updates are rumoured to be debuting in the week of March 14th, which kind of lines
0:31:42up with 9.3 as a spring release.
0:31:45Because you would assume that these new devices would come along with an update, right?
0:31:50description right the update ios to go in these new devices so 93 being teased by apples coming
0:31:56in the spring lines up with kind of a march event to a later in march early april release of d5se
0:32:02do you think that if this is what they have they would do an in-person event is this enough for an
0:32:10an event? Well, what is that bar? Where do you cross the bar? Exactly. What is the bar
0:32:21at which you have to start inviting press to come to a place? Not to go back to ancient
0:32:27history but the reason that I wasn't at the original iMac event is that the two previous
0:32:31Apple events that they called press to with no information about what was going to be
0:32:35discussed were stinkers they had nothing interesting to say and since then every
0:32:40apple event has been substantive that was that was a key rule so I don't know
0:32:46how you define it but there needs to be enough for you to feel like it's it's an
0:32:52event so is it if it's new watch bands and you know and yeah the new old phone
0:33:00own, is that enough for a media event or, you know, and who knows, maybe there are Mac
0:33:06announcements that they throw in there too. I don't know.
0:33:09There's also rumblings of an iPad Air 3, but apparently, again according to German, he
0:33:14has no confirmation on that. Like he knows it's being worked on, but it's unclear whether
0:33:19that's ready.
0:33:20Right, because we talked about that being something that you could potentially move
0:33:23into a spring timeframe instead of the fall. They don't all have to be in sync and the
0:33:29the iPad Pro led the way, so maybe the Air gets revved in the spring rather than waiting
0:33:33for the fall, and they turn that product line around and do it that way.
0:33:37I feel like an Air 3, a watch, and watch updates and the 5 SE is enough for an on-campus event
0:33:44at least, you know?
0:33:46Well, sure, an on-campus event would be easier, although that's a very small event that's
0:33:50got iPhone in the name.
0:33:51I mean, the problem is whenever there's an iPhone something, everybody gets...
0:33:55And just at this point, an Apple event has a level of hype around it that you do not
0:34:00want people walking away saying, "Why did they call that event?"
0:34:03So I think that's a good question.
0:34:08They have to have a story to tell.
0:34:11And what Apple has shown lately is that they can roll products out and work with members
0:34:16of the press to give them some exclusives and get coverage without ever having to do
0:34:21an event.
0:34:23So it's possible that they wouldn't have to.
0:34:26It's also possible that they could.
0:34:28These events have value to Apple because they do generate coverage and they focus people
0:34:34on Apple for a little while, but there are also a lot of effort to put out.
0:34:39You've got to invite people and set up the venue and rent a venue if you're doing it
0:34:42off campus.
0:34:43There are all sorts of things that go into that, and you are raising expectations, and
0:34:48then you need to deliver, and you need to have everything done in time, and you need
0:34:50to have your shipping worked out.
0:34:52So it's a lot easier to just sort of announce products one by one by press release and briefings
0:34:57and things like that.
0:34:58So I don't know.
0:35:00It would be unusual, I would say, for Apple to just go for six months without doing an
0:35:04event of some kind, but they totally could.
0:35:08And you're right, it's that what passes the wait test.
0:35:10If it's a revised iPhone 5 and some changes to the Apple Watch bands and an update to
0:35:17make the iPad Air more like the iPad Pro.
0:35:21Is that an event in and of itself, or would you need something else to really blend it
0:35:27the way that it needs to have?
0:35:29Not every event has to be the iPhone launch, right?
0:35:33And no other event can be that.
0:35:35But you kind of always want something new, right?
0:35:39And revisions to old products is not something new.
0:35:43And that would be my hesitation with something like that.
0:35:46I feel like you need to come in with something that's actually new and not just an iPad Air
0:35:51that's more like the Pro and an iPhone 5 that's more like the 6 and Apple Watch bands that
0:35:58are more of what you've already got.
0:36:02I think as well with Apple moving more towards the "everything in September" schedule,
0:36:08they're moving even more towards that.
0:36:10I think in the new age of Apple working in the media and doing things that we don't expect,
0:36:16right, which I think 2015 was definitely the year of and 2016 is continuing to be, I think
0:36:23it would be prudent to have products just appear on the website with some nice videos.
0:36:29You know, to be like, look, we're doing some different stuff now.
0:36:33So they give themselves the ability to do more of that later on because that September
0:36:38you know, we're looking like iPhones, iPads, Apple TV, and Apple Watch now.
0:36:43Like that is getting real big and the last one was very long, right, for that reason.
0:36:49So I think it would be a good idea, as I look at it being a good idea for Apple to show
0:36:55we are not afraid to just put things out into the world with some devices that we sent out to
0:37:01BuzzFeed and the New York Times, right? I think that that is a good way of kind of showing a bit
0:37:07more of a change from them and kind of being like, yeah, we don't need to invite the world's media
0:37:13to the Flint Center to do everything. Well, and I feel like there is probably another Apple event
0:37:19that is the campus event that is like a Mac announcement event. That's the smaller scale,
0:37:26it's not about the iPhone and they if presumably at some point this year they'll do something
0:37:31interesting with the Mac line and and we'll see that and that'll be an event and that that event
0:37:38is always much smaller but they usually do something like that they might do that again
0:37:43but yeah I agree with you I feel like maybe they don't need to do these events because they have
0:37:51that they are really trying all of these other tools PR tools to get the the
0:37:55message out you know they'll they'll do a briefing with under embargo with some
0:38:00key partners and then they will brief everybody else in the gap after the
0:38:04embargo drops and before the product ships and then they'll ship the product
0:38:08and they'll get coverage and they can do it whenever they want if it if it gets
0:38:12delayed a week they'll just delay it a week and you know have to worry about it
0:38:15so it's a good question about whether we're gonna see more Apple announcements
0:38:20fewer, will we only get WWDC and the Fall event and maybe a Mac event at some point?
0:38:27I don't know.
0:38:28This is totally off topic, but whilst we're talking about Apple getting people together,
0:38:32I had a thought.
0:38:33So Google I/O is moving to Mountain View in May.
0:38:37They are not going to be at the Moscone anymore.
0:38:39Do you think that when Campus 2 opens, they'll continue to do WWDC in Moscone?
0:38:46I don't know enough.
0:38:47I mean, Apple Campus 2 has a giant presentation venue.
0:38:53I thought about this.
0:38:54I actually did think about this, the same thing.
0:38:56Would Apple do WWDC on campus?
0:38:57And I think the answer is probably no, but because there are so many people at WWDC and
0:39:04I'm not sure that the Apple Campus, even the new one, would be able to work in that
0:39:10way.
0:39:11I don't know what the hotel situation is like around that area.
0:39:14I assume not good.
0:39:16good is the yeah that's exactly I was talking to people in the relay slack we were talking
0:39:21about people like the material hosts coming from for Google I/O and and in Mountain View
0:39:26and they said you know what are the hotels around Mountain View and how do you get to
0:39:29Mountain View if you stay in San Francisco and I'm like you take the Google bus maybe
0:39:32because like the train doesn't run there the train will only get you close ish and then
0:39:37you have to take a bus or a cab or something it's it's problematic and you know Silicon
0:39:43Valley's built in the suburbs. Those are not cities, they're suburbs. And it's problematic
0:39:49that because of the founders of those companies growing up in the suburbs and becoming the
0:39:54founders of those companies that you now have these companies that are in the suburbs instead
0:39:59of in something like in downtown San Francisco where it's much more dense. And so it would
0:40:06be a challenge. So I'm doubtful, but it's, you know, you never know. That event is so
0:40:11out of control, I think it's a better question to say at what point does WWDC become something
0:40:16altogether different because such a small fraction of the developer audience can go
0:40:22to it and they are streaming all of the stuff, if not live, then like next day.
0:40:29So at some point, why are we doing WWDC as a physical event at all other than it is great
0:40:36for all of us who come, but in terms of attendees, it's a tiny percentage who actually get
0:40:41of the developer community who actually can get in the door.
0:40:44It's getting smaller and smaller every year as well, right? When they say about how many,
0:40:48the massive percentage of first-timers that there is every year.
0:40:52So it's just showing how many more and more and more people every single year are
0:40:56developing on Apple's platform.
0:40:58And the I/O, Google I/O keynote
0:41:01is happening at Shoreline, which is the amphitheater behind the Google
0:41:05Plex. And that's like where rock concerts are held.
0:41:09so really it's got a huge that that's my understanding I think that's where
0:41:12they're doing it is a shoreline
0:41:14uh... and
0:41:15imagine that like
0:41:17okay everybody wants to come to our developer conference sure you can come
0:41:21we have a big bowl with uh...
0:41:23with thousands of people in it
0:41:25so so come on down yeah it's at shoreline. Please we need to fill the seats.
0:41:30They say Google I/O I think
0:41:33as a whole is at shoreline and I'm unclear whether they are like are they
0:41:36going to do breakout sessions on the lawn or something? I don't know how that's going
0:41:40to work. But anyway, it will be interesting to see how that works. And I do wonder about
0:41:46that with Apple just in general. I'm not sure. I mean Apple famously said, "Oh, we don't
0:41:51need to do trade shows anymore. The Apple store is better than any trade show." And
0:41:56they dumped Mackerel Expo and all of that. So this is Apple's own show. But at some point,
0:42:03I don't know at some point I think it's worth asking the question of like what's the value
0:42:06of this if it's an incredibly hot ticket to the point where you can't you know you you
0:42:11basically can't meet demand there it's impossible for you to have enough seats anywhere for
0:42:17this event and you know you can do it all they're doing the right things we're just
0:42:22putting all the videos online and that's great so that even if you can't get a seat you can
0:42:26see it all you could take the time off from work and just stay home and watch the videos
0:42:30and you would see WWDC you wouldn't get to the social aspect of it but you would get
0:42:34all the content but so is the whole thing just there to provide an excuse for some subset
0:42:41to meet in person is that is that the reason that that they're going to the you know trouble
0:42:46of holding that event at all because at some point literally everything is on the on the
0:42:50internet are the people who are there just the live studio audience to provide applause
0:42:56at the beginning and end to make it seem more realistic. I don't know. It's just,
0:43:00uh, you know, it's probably not going to happen anytime soon, but it's pretty funny.
0:43:03I expect at least that all, at least media events will probably move there.
0:43:08Oh, certainly. That's the reason that the, the, uh, new theater is being built,
0:43:14is that town hall is incredibly tiny and, uh, they want to be able to do media events on campus,
0:43:20but that's not WWDC, right? Media events are controllable and they're very small.
0:43:25So I think that's for sure going to happen, that as soon as Campus 2 is open, all the
0:43:29Apple Media events will be on the Apple Campus.
0:43:33And then they control the venue.
0:43:34They don't have to book the venue.
0:43:36They can hold those meetings anytime they want.
0:43:38They'll be able to invite the press and not like say, "Well, we can only invite 200
0:43:42press this time because our little theater just can't hold any more people."
0:43:46They can invite the big crowd and they control every aspect of it because it's their real
0:43:53estate.
0:43:54They literally can control everything that happens there, which they can't do at these
0:43:58outside venues.
0:43:59They, you know, they're renting the space for, you know, a few days before the event.
0:44:04There's only so much they can do.
0:44:05Do you have anything more you want to say on this?
0:44:07I don't think so.
0:44:08I mean, I guess it's rumor season now.
0:44:10Okay, everybody put on your, I don't know what, your rumor pants.
0:44:14It's rumor season.
0:44:15It's safe to wear them now.
0:44:17Germin, you know, Germin's reports are usually very, very accurate.
0:44:20Especially recently.
0:44:21He's untouchable, right?
0:44:22He's untouchable, right?
0:44:24No, he has great sources.
0:44:25I think for something this far out,
0:44:27even you can see how he words things.
0:44:31Things are still in flux.
0:44:32Cool.
0:44:33Things can change.
0:44:33And that's, a lot of times people like Mark Gurman
0:44:35are I think unfairly graded as being wrong
0:44:40when something they predict that's way out
0:44:43doesn't come to pass.
0:44:44But if you look at Gurman, as his reports go along,
0:44:48I really get the sense that he is reporting
0:44:51on what is generally thought to be happening at Apple, but it's a long time between now
0:44:55and the fall, and things can change, right? So if we listen to this podcast before the
0:45:02Apple event in September, we may say, "Oh wow, a lot of this stuff isn't going to happen,"
0:45:08but that may be stuff that happens in the next three or four months that changes what
0:45:12the output is. His information, though, is generally good. I would think it's far more
0:45:17likely than not that this is what the current thinking is at Apple about all
0:45:20this stuff. All right, do you want to take a break? Yeah. I wish to do some Ask Upgrade. I
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0:48:13had schema in the chat room ask any thoughts on what tomorrow's earnings are
0:48:17gonna look like I mean this is what I expect more money than ever before more
0:48:22iPhone sold than ever before China is a burgeoning a market and the one other
0:48:28thing that I expect is this is the first quarter up on the iPad that there's been
0:48:33in a long time. I think that the iPad Pro probably has a pretty good profit margin because
0:48:41it is an expensive device and I think they will have sold enough of them. I think a change
0:48:46in that vertical, the iPad vertical, I'm going to go with that. I think a change in that
0:48:54will...
0:48:55So reversing that kind of couple of years of lack of growth.
0:49:00Yeah, I don't think it's going to be huge, but I think it's going to be a tick up.
0:49:06I think it's going to be a buck in with the trend.
0:49:08I don't know if it will continue, but I think this is going to be the first upswing on the
0:49:13iPad, I think in maybe the last couple of years or something, at least maybe the last
0:49:18five or six quarters.
0:49:19Well, it's the holiday quarter, so it'll be interesting to see if it is up year over
0:49:22year from the holiday quarter last year.
0:49:24Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
0:49:26Not a bad prediction.
0:49:27I think if it's not, that is a bigger problem than there has been in any other quarter over
0:49:33the last couple of years.
0:49:34I think you're right too.
0:49:35I think since the holiday quarter, it's going to be the biggest one ever, and it's going
0:49:39to be the biggest sales of everything ever.
0:49:42And then what's going to happen, my guess, given what everybody's talking about, is that
0:49:47they're going to release their guidance for the following quarter, and if it shows even
0:49:52a hint that they think there might be softness in iPhone sales in the next quarter that the
0:50:00stock market will go crazy and Apple stock will get hammered.
0:50:06And I'm not an Apple investor nor do I pretend to be an investment expert but it looks like
0:50:10there's a lot of there are a lot of knives being sharpened over Apple's iPhone growth.
0:50:15They're concerned that Apple's iPhone growth is not continuing but it's not like not like
0:50:20it won't continue to be a great business for Apple, but when you're an investor you're
0:50:24looking for growth and growth is what's priced, usually is priced into stock prices, is this
0:50:29assumption of a certain level of growth. And when that growth starts to tail off, people
0:50:33start to tail off their opinion of that stock because they're like, "Well, this company
0:50:38is running out of growth and it's going to be what they call, I guess, a value stock
0:50:42instead of a growth stock." And I think there's going to be a lot of talk of that tomorrow
0:50:46even if it's record iPhone sales. In fact, I would even predict there will be a
0:50:50bunch of really grumpy people saying, "Oh sure, have your best quarter ever and the
0:50:54best iPhone sales ever and why is the stock getting hammered?" And that would be
0:50:58the reason why is if there's truth to this sort of rumbling that iPhone
0:51:04numbers going forward might not be quite as good as Apple had hoped that they
0:51:09would be. That there might be a little softness in the in the iPhone sales
0:51:12market or alternately maybe that maybe they will put their you know their boot
0:51:17down and say nope it's doing great and just essentially dare the people who
0:51:24made those reports to to show their work because that would be interesting too.
0:51:28I have no way of even being close to knowing this I don't think we're at that
0:51:33point yet but it's gonna happen there is gonna be a quarter where iPhone sales
0:51:39are down like it has to happen eventually but I I would be surprised if
0:51:45it was now but I'm also not an analyst so I don't pay enough attention well
0:51:49it's interesting when you start talking about what what the question was what
0:51:52what tomorrow's earnings will be and you immediately started to talk about sort
0:51:56of like this product doing this and this product doing that and I think that that
0:52:00says something about who we are yeah which is people who care about the
0:52:05products. I mean, like I said, I'm not an Apple investor, nor am I an Apple investment
0:52:12analyst. I care about the Apple financial results because I'm interested in seeing
0:52:17where Apple's businesses are and where they're going in terms of the products and how they
0:52:21make their decisions about where the products go. And that's it.
0:52:26That's what I care about. The money moves the product, and that's what I care about.
0:52:31they will put their money where the products are.
0:52:35Right, because Apple stock has actually gotten, it has not performed well over the last year
0:52:42and I hear people complaining about that and I totally don't care about it either and if
0:52:46you care about it because you're an Apple investor then fair enough you should care
0:52:49about that, you're invested in Apple but just so you know where we're coming from, we don't
0:52:53care about that and quite frankly, even if I were to be an investor in technology stocks
0:53:00which I'm not and I will not allow myself to be because I write about it for a living
0:53:03and I think that that's a problematic, that's a conflict of interest.
0:53:07It is possible you could affect it.
0:53:09I will, I will, yeah.
0:53:10It's not possible.
0:53:11It's not, yeah, it's less likely for these big companies than it would be for smaller
0:53:15companies, but it's possible.
0:53:16And then, you know, you just, why would you say something bad about a company that you
0:53:19want to grow and you want to say good things about them so that they grow?
0:53:22And I just, I don't want to even touch that.
0:53:24That's, that's crazy.
0:53:25But here's, here's the thing.
0:53:27I'm not sure Apple stock has ever been logical.
0:53:30I mean there have been plenty of times where you've looked at the stock performance of
0:53:34Apple and you're like why?
0:53:37There have been arguments that it's been underpriced at a lot of points and so I'm
0:53:44not sure that's a stock that I would ever put a lot of faith in anyway because I'm
0:53:50not sure the investors understand Apple and so they make decisions based on what they
0:53:54perceived to be where Apple's going but I'm not sure it's based on an actual understanding
0:53:59of that company and so you know irrationality driving your stock price is problematic and
0:54:07I think it's good that Apple whenever Apple stock goes down Apple buys a lot of Apple
0:54:10stock back and I think that's actually a would be a would be a silver lining they use some
0:54:15of that cash to just buy back the stock when it when they think it's undervalued.
0:54:18I just wish they would buy it all back and yeah I know we don't have to deal with this.
0:54:23The problem if they went private is that we would then they would never tell us anything
0:54:26about how they're doing.
0:54:27They would just it would be all Bezos charts all the time.
0:54:30Yeah.
0:54:31And from Apple it would be even worse than from Jeff Bezos.
0:54:33It would be it would be you know we think we're doing great here's a chart here's that chart
0:54:39about how how much faster the iPad is than the original iPhone.
0:54:43Okay.
0:54:44So at least at least they have to tell us how they're doing that's the that's the brilliant
0:54:49thing about Apple being a public company is they actually do have to disclose things about
0:54:53their business. And that's why you see every Apple site out there with all those charts
0:54:58that we're all going to make again on Tuesday the 26th because that's our one time where
0:55:05there's government mandated disclosure of Apple about its business and you know they
0:55:09would rather not do it but they have to it's the law so we get to see it.
0:55:13Yeah, yeah. You know, the only thing is like the money and the numbers is like whatever.
0:55:20I just like to see the trends and what's been sold and stuff like that. Because the money's
0:55:24so big I can't even comprehend it, right? Like I have no comprehension of the amount
0:55:28of money that they bring in. Like $45 billion a quarter? Like what is that? It's like magic.
0:55:35It doesn't even really exist, it's so large, you know?
0:55:39Yeah. It's, yeah. It's play money.
0:55:42Yeah, it is effectively is because they can't even spend it, right?
0:55:45Like they're just sitting on this war chest of hundreds of billions of dollars because what are you going to do with that money?
0:55:50That's the funny thing about apple. It's like what we're getting into a completely random topic now, but
0:55:56What do you do? There's nothing you can do with it. Will you buy a country?
0:55:59Like what are you going to do with that amount of money? It's at a certain point
0:56:02It's like you there's nothing you can even do with it. It's just too much. Yeah. Yeah save it for a rainy day
0:56:08I mean, I do wonder it's like, you know invested in a car company
0:56:11you know, build a car in your spare time and weather the storm, if there's a storm in the
0:56:18future, use it for R&D.
0:56:22Yeah.
0:56:25But then again, there may be a moment where there's an acquisition they want to make that
0:56:30they're able to pull the trigger on because they have that cash.
0:56:35Yeah, yeah, definitely.
0:56:37definitely. Alright let's move on anyway because we have more Ask Upgrade to do. Andrew wants
0:56:42to know do we think that they'll ever be picture in picture on the Apple TV?
0:56:46I'm going to say no. Oh really? I would have thought this would have made the perfect sense
0:56:52right so because TVs have this don't they? Picture in picture. Well they used to but
0:56:56they basically don't anymore. Oh okay. It's a feature that one it's a feature that very
0:57:01few people used and two it requires you to have multiple sources that are being played
0:57:04at the same time, which on modern digital boxes is actually more than the hardware can
0:57:09often take. You know, they're optimized to play back one signal at a time and not two.
0:57:15And so back when it was sort of two antenna inputs, they were like, "Hey, we could do
0:57:18two pictures." But those have all sort of fallen out. And I'm not quite sure what the
0:57:23use case would be on the Apple TV. I mean, it's possible. If what Andrew means is like
0:57:28the idea that you could have a, you know, video playing in the corner while you're looking
0:57:33through the app interface to find a different video to play or something like that. Well,
0:57:37sure. That's what I was thinking. Like how it was on the iPad. Like on Netflix or something.
0:57:41Yeah. Where Netflix is playing or YouTube is playing and you're still able to find like
0:57:46the next thing. But, um, yeah, sure. But, uh, I don't know. I, I, I just doubt that that's
0:57:53a priority feature. Uh, Wes would like to know, I like this question. Uh, any tips for
0:57:59a married couple about to start their first podcast together.
0:58:02So you seem to have some tips here.
0:58:04I had I've been thinking about this today.
0:58:07So I have four points that I want to say to Wes and his partner.
0:58:12I think you should record some test episodes so you can both get used to it.
0:58:15If you've never done any podcasting before you can get used to what it sounds like to
0:58:18hear yourself.
0:58:19You can get used to using the microphone and kind of playing around with it and trying
0:58:23to find a little bit about what it is you want to talk about and how you want to talk
0:58:27about it.
0:58:28your personalities come through so I will recommend you know if you don't
0:58:32already listen to top four with Tiff and Marco Arment because their relationship
0:58:38is the thing that's so fantastic about that show you hear them as a couple and
0:58:44it's fantastic you know it's the same as with Phil and Lisa ruin the movies on
0:58:48the incomparable you hear the relationship between the two and that's
0:58:52what makes the show so brilliant right because you get chemistry at its highest
0:58:56level which I think is what makes podcasts great anyway and a couple have the best kind
0:59:02of chemistry. Even better than me and you Jason.
0:59:04Hard to believe. Don't overcomplicate the technology part. Don't worry about getting
0:59:10the best microphone. Don't worry about like finding the best hosting. Just find what works,
0:59:14find what's affordable and go from there. And most importantly, and I give this piece
0:59:19of advice to everyone considering podcasting as a thing, treat it as an enjoyable hobby.
0:59:25Don't think about how you're gonna make money.
0:59:29Yeah, because you probably won't.
0:59:31Yeah, this is a hobby. That's how I started it. It's how everybody that I know started it.
0:59:37I mean, there are still people that I know today that do podcasts just for fun.
0:59:43And they have very successful businesses. You know, there are shows that I do just for fun still.
0:59:49I have shows that we take no ads on because I like to do them because that's part of the hobby side
0:59:55of the business that I run. You've got to remember that first and foremost because
0:59:59if you start thinking about the business from day one I don't think you're ever
1:00:03gonna fully enjoy it. Yeah I agree I agree with everything you said.
1:00:10Hardware wise you know you might want to think about the microphone although if
1:00:14you are it is your loved one then you can get up you can get up close to a
1:00:18single mic if you need to. You've got like a Yeti there's a there's a two
1:00:22cross mode basically where you can sit on opposite sides of it and it records
1:00:25and yeah you can go up to having like two microphones set up if you really
1:00:29want to but I would worry about it too much and I think your advice is just so
1:00:33great that do it do it because you like it you know half the podcast I do I do
1:00:37not to make money but because it's fun which is good because they don't make
1:00:40any money so I you know I've got three podcasts for three or four that make
1:00:46that make money and and you know that's that's great because I do like ten of
1:00:51them. So, just have fun with it and then the audience will know that you're having fun
1:00:56with it. And if it becomes successful creatively or with an audience or financially at some
1:01:04point that's awesome. But that's not the reason to do it. I do, I get those questions, I'm
1:01:09sure you do too, which is I've been thinking of quitting my job and starting a podcast
1:01:13to make a living. Like no, don't.
1:01:15Well, not even so much that, but just, you know, we see a lot of people contact me to
1:01:21want to be on Relay or I just get people ask me questions all the time, which I'm more
1:01:25than happy to do.
1:01:27And I actually will include in the show notes what I include for a lot of people on emails
1:01:31is the talk that I gave at the Apple store about how I got started in podcasting because
1:01:37there's a bunch of just like little tips about hosting and tools and stuff that you should
1:01:41use and what I consider is a good start for people. But I see so many, you know, oh and
1:01:49then they mention monetization or they mention ads or sponsorship in it. Like I just don't
1:01:53think you should think about that in the beginning because really it should be a hobby, I think.
1:01:58Because I think people think about this less when they're starting a blog, I think, about
1:02:03how much money they're going to make and I don't really know why that is.
1:02:07Do not start a creative endeavor because you want to make, as a career move, especially
1:02:15as a financial calculation, because it's a lot harder than it looks.
1:02:19And with podcasts you have to build up a very large audience before you could even possibly
1:02:23make money at it.
1:02:24And what's the quality of your thing going to be if it's just a money-making vehicle
1:02:28instead of something with something to say?
1:02:32And unless you're somebody who's famous in some other realm and can kind of transfer
1:02:35that in. If that's the case, then maybe you've got something to create. But even there, I
1:02:39would say, think long and hard about it and do something because you care about it and
1:02:45you like it and not just because it's some sort of transaction. So I'm sure Wes is not
1:02:49planning it that way, but I think it's good advice because we see that from a lot of people.
1:02:54And don't overcomplicate the technology part, too, is absolutely true. Keep it simple, record
1:03:00some test episodes, let your personalities come through, I think you got it, Myke. I
1:03:05endorse the Myke Hurley podcast plan.
1:03:09Benjamin has written to say, "My mom is familiar with a PC and it's time for her to move to
1:03:14a new device. Should she get a MacBook or an iPad Pro or Apple Pencil?"
1:03:19Now, we don't know anything about Benjamin's mom.
1:03:22So this is a difficult question to ask, but it's one that I'm starting to see a lot more.
1:03:28what do they do? If this person is surfing the internet, maybe doing some email, maybe
1:03:35watching some YouTube videos, playing some games, I would say you probably want an iOS
1:03:41device at this point for stuff like that. That's how I feel. Just the casual user, these
1:03:48devices are way easier to use. They take a lot less technical support from you and they
1:03:54They are a lot less risky in things that can go wrong with them and they are more resilient,
1:04:00they're easier to move around, they take a lot less setting up.
1:04:04I would say go iOS in that scenario.
1:04:06>> Yeah, also you don't have the metaphor problem of going from a PC to a Mac where
1:04:13it's sort of alike but different.
1:04:15>> Yeah, yeah.
1:04:16>> It's just totally, it's a break, it's totally different.
1:04:20And if that's their use case, I mean I'm down here in Arizona visiting my mom and she started
1:04:26with an iBook and had Mac laptops for years.
1:04:32And the last time I was down here I took her old laptop away because she's got an iPad
1:04:37now and she doesn't need anything else and she doesn't want anything else.
1:04:42Now if they're like a serious heavy Microsoft Office user or something like that then they
1:04:47They should yeah although I could actually argue that Microsoft Office is better on the
1:04:50iPad than on the Mac but you know I could see there are some cases where we're getting
1:04:55a MacBook but you're asking that your mom to transfer platforms and strangely the iPad
1:05:03I feel like is a better transfer location like you said because it's because it's so
1:05:09different that I feel like it's going to be less jarring than having to figure out well
1:05:12you know why does it look like this if she's so if she if she's a PC power user
1:05:18I would say she should just get another PC and if she's not and she's just using
1:05:22it because it's her computer to do internet right then that that is like
1:05:26Myke said a perfect use for for an iPad and finally today is a question comes
1:05:32from Chris I cannot believe we've not been asked this before now it's hard to
1:05:35believe if you guys could have any superpower what would it be so I used to
1:05:40want to control time. I said this on analog once, it sounds so terrible, but I now kind
1:05:47of do control my own time because the reason I wanted to control time is I wanted to sleep
1:05:52more and I wanted more time to work on my side business. But now I kind of can choose
1:05:56when I wake up and how much work I do, right? I mean, what happens is if I choose to do
1:06:02no work, I make no money, right? I'm not in a world of like lollipops and rainbows here,
1:06:07I have the ability to set my own schedule now, so I kind of have what I always wanted.
1:06:11That was the only reason I wanted that ability. So now I'd probably go with flight because
1:06:16I spend a lot of money on flights every year and it would be nice to have to do that.
1:06:20Yeah, I keep, you know, the easy ones are flight or invisibility, something like that.
1:06:24I think that would be very interesting, but I actually like your idea and so I'm going
1:06:28to crib off of that and say I would love the ability to control where I go in time and
1:06:33space so I could have access so I could go back in time and like see how things really
1:06:38happened at any particular time in any place and that would be great.
1:06:44So time and space so I could sort of teleport and pop in and out.
1:06:49Basically I want to be Doctor Who without even needing the equipment of the time machine.
1:06:53Just let me go where I want to and see what happened for real and I think that would be
1:06:56pretty cool because it drives me crazy.
1:06:58Every now and then I read these stories about ancient history and how there are things that
1:07:05we just don't know about what happened in these particular events because the recollections
1:07:11are lost and there's just sort of like a fifth hand version of the story.
1:07:15The Library of Alexandria was lost and some of the books got out but some of the books
1:07:20were lost forever.
1:07:21I love the idea of being able to just kind of pop back there and say, "Oh, that's
1:07:27it happened and or or take those books and pop back forward again before they burn and
1:07:34increase sort of like human knowledge I think that would be really awesome plus I could
1:07:36go in the future and see what's going on up there.
1:07:38See I don't know if I want to move through time like that that's scary to me my control
1:07:44of time was just being able to stop it that was all I wanted I did I don't if I could
1:07:51go backwards and forwards in time Jason I would be creating wormholes and rifts all
1:07:56over the place. I just want to travel. I just want to go here and there and see what's going
1:08:01on.
1:08:02Oh no, that's good, but you just clearly have more self-control than me. Instead of editing
1:08:08podcasts, I would just go back in time to change what I said. I would be that kind of
1:08:12terrible about it.
1:08:13Wow, that is a bad power. I always used to joke, I think I might have even said that
1:08:17here before, that the worst superpower would be short-range time travel. You could change
1:08:24the outcome of the future but it would be like only minor things that would generally
1:08:27be allowed so you could go like an hour back in time but what's that like, you know, check
1:08:33the left tire, it's a little bit low. What could you do with limited time travel? Don't
1:08:41eat that egg, it's rotten. It's the worst kind of power. I want ultimate mastery of
1:08:47the universe. That's it. Easy.
1:08:50Perfect. Alright, I think that brings us to the end of this week's episode. If you want
1:08:54to find show notes for today, go on over to relay.fm/upgrade/73. Jason writes, no matter
1:09:01where he is, whether it's in San Francisco or in Arizona, over at sixcolors.com and he
1:09:06has many other podcasts including Liftoff and Clockwise on Relay FM. I'm looking forward
1:09:12to the next Liftoff. I'm hoping to hear some New Planet discussion.
1:09:17We have a lot of things to talk about on the next lift off.
1:09:20Yes, absolutely.
1:09:21Yeah, I bet.
1:09:22I have to put a link in the show notes to your Yahoo article about that actually, because
1:09:28I was explaining all of this to Adina over the weekend because I read your great article
1:09:33on Yahoo.
1:09:34Is it Yahoo?
1:09:35Nice.
1:09:36Yahoo tech is where it's sort of hosted, but they want to do more space stuff, so I'm writing
1:09:39space, some space stories for them.
1:09:41I sounded very smart, right? Because I could explain everything that happened in the space
1:09:48news about the new planet. So go check that out. I'll put that in the show notes so you
1:09:52can go and read that. But also of course you can go and find Jason on the incomparable
1:09:56and he's @jsnell on Twitter. I am @imike, I M Y K E. And I have recently been dipping
1:10:03my toe in the water of trying to put more things on the internet. And I have changed
1:10:08the URL, Jason, it is, you can now find my Tumblr blog at mikewasright.com.
1:10:13Mm-hmm. I noticed.
1:10:16It was like, I've had the redirect going for a bit, and then I was just like, oh, forget
1:10:21it, I'm going all in on this. So as of this morning, it's now mikewasright.com. It's my
1:10:28personal brand.
1:10:30It's good.
1:10:33Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. Thank you so much to FreshBooks
1:10:36and how we're off of sponsoring it. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Mr. Snow.
1:10:40- Goodbye, Mr. Hurley.
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