The Incomparable

334: Three Pillars of Batman

 

  the incontrovertible numbers we January [TS]

  2n474 welcome back everybody to be [TS]

  uncomfortable on your host Jason L we so [TS]

  bad man won the tournament that we ran [TS]

  here that was stupid and we wanted to [TS]

  have an amazing episode about that man [TS]

  and we we are doing one tonight we are [TS]

  we are embarking on a journey through [TS]

  films starting the Batman and we're [TS]

  starting with the the tim burton [TS]

  directed Batman films 1989 Batman and [TS]

  1992 is batman returns to discuss these [TS]

  films with me i have a fine panel of [TS]

  people who watch the movies and that [TS]

  will talk about it because that's what [TS]

  the show is will begin by introducing [TS]

  them [TS]

  Shannon sudderth is here hi Shannon [TS]

  welcome back 11 keys [TS]

  David jail or wholly super your [TS]

  spectacular Batman and the no new auntie [TS]

  Ashley hello I'm multi-chip sudderth I'm [TS]

  sorry i I'm I didn't prepare I've [TS]

  watched the ben affleck daredevil and [TS]

  Tony sindelar hello nerds and for Batman [TS]

  is Mac Batman belongs to all of us we [TS]

  are all been no let's not get carried [TS]

  away [TS]

  it's not how DC Comics sees it i don't [TS]

  think that all right so here's the story [TS]

  with that man they did the the adam west [TS]

  batman in the sixties that was fun then [TS]

  the property cuddle just lay there for a [TS]

  while Superman they start making [TS]

  Superman films in the late seventies [TS]

  those are successful and they decided we [TS]

  should go back into batman again they [TS]

  took until nineteen eighty-nine when [TS]

  finally Batman hit the big screen again [TS]

  starring michael keaton as Bruce Wayne [TS]

  and Batman Jack Nicholson as the Joker [TS]

  directed by tim burton this was for [TS]

  those who did not live through it i can [TS]

  just say it was a big deal like this was [TS]

  my memory is that this was the first [TS]

  like market movie as marketing campaign [TS]

  that I remember like literally the [TS]

  Batman logo [TS]

  was omnipresent you could not everything [TS]

  had Batman logos on it your milk at a [TS]

  batman logo on it [TS]

  everything had Batman logos it was it [TS]

  was for those who didn't live through it [TS]

  it was a huge marketing push this was my [TS]

  want to say the end of my freshman year [TS]

  in college and yeah so it was a big deal [TS]

  and I think it was a man an extremely [TS]

  successful film as well with a different [TS]

  you know a different kind of take that [TS]

  was very influential that led to like [TS]

  the the a lot of the themes of it get [TS]

  kind of replayed in batman the animated [TS]

  series it's got an interesting kind of [TS]

  art deco-style uh so anyway let's start [TS]

  by discussing tim burton's batman is [TS]

  everybody here [TS]

  did you did you all see Batman when it [TS]

  came out or did you watch it later [TS]

  yeah I saw it when it came out but I was [TS]

  a really big comics nerd at the time so [TS]

  I also went through the pre-movie pre [TS]

  publicity [TS]

  oh my god this is going to suck they [TS]

  can't Michael Keane I remember that his [TS]

  chin isn't strong enough so that it's [TS]

  it's remarkable that this movie was this [TS]

  successful as it wasn't i think a lot of [TS]

  it had to do with the overdrive [TS]

  marketing that Warner's did to try to [TS]

  convince people that know it wasn't [TS]

  going to suck you know I I was the one [TS]

  in my my group in high school because [TS]

  this came out right at the tail end of [TS]

  my senior year of high school I was the [TS]

  one who when they announced the casting [TS]

  was like okay it's gonna be great and [TS]

  everyone else is like no no come on come [TS]

  on Michael Keaton these Betelgeuse is [TS]

  mr. mom and like they're just you watch [TS]

  and sure enough he is I mean he's still [TS]

  my favorite movie Batman I saw it [TS]

  opening night in a crowded theater that [TS]

  was completely full and it was playing [TS]

  into auditoriums in that multi plaque [TS]

  and I know that because there was [TS]

  something wrong with their print and we [TS]

  had to sit there in that crowded theater [TS]

  for 30 minutes past the show time until [TS]

  it finally started and I still loved [TS]

  every second of it [TS]

  my friends and I spent months doing jack [TS]

  nicholson's little card thing remove the [TS]

  card around the deck everything in the [TS]

  movie was cool too [TS]

  and it's it's one of the few that ever [TS]

  so twice in the theater in the same [TS]

  weekend my college roommates and I we [TS]

  were not cool people we memorized the [TS]

  lyrics to bat dance that's how could [TS]

  that mean to you do we wait for this [TS]

  movie and I married him anyway Tony ya [TS]

  too young to be an honorary or just old [TS]

  enough to see a bad man i was definitely [TS]

  too young for part perhaps for both of [TS]

  these movies but definitely for this one [TS]

  I think i was aware as a spamming I was [TS]

  a child I i was aware of the like the [TS]

  marketing push of it but I i think the [TS]

  first time I saw it was you know on a [TS]

  VHS tape it's good you're drinking your [TS]

  milk it's good and yeah because I think [TS]

  you're bad milk [TS]

  yeah and speaking of bad milk i should [TS]

  say the Batman cereal that came out [TS]

  needing nine was really good [TS]

  Batman Returns cereal not as good funny [TS]

  men but we'll get there we'll get there [TS]

  tim burton personally make both of those [TS]

  so all right let's talk about Batman [TS]

  then we'll look we'll talk about 1989's [TS]

  Batman now I mentioned I the style here [TS]

  is it's fun it is this weird art deco [TS]

  kind of style we we've seen this in a [TS]

  few movies up [TS]

  it's definitely I you know the i always [TS]

  think of Max Headroom is being a little [TS]

  bit like that although that's a little [TS]

  more techy of course the great Super [TS]

  Mario Brothers it's anyway but it but it [TS]

  is a it's kind of a fun mix of things [TS]

  that look old along with some things [TS]

  that look uh look modern and his first [TS]

  was the designer I think won the Oscar [TS]

  for art direction it would visit it [TS]

  looks really beautiful and from the very [TS]

  very start where we see the this stuff [TS]

  we see a family with it with a parents [TS]

  in and the young kid and it's very [TS]

  clearly playing on the origin of Batman [TS]

  it's kind of a fake-out and it's a fake [TS]

  ad because it's not it's actually the [TS]

  present and they're saved by Batman but [TS]

  but they they can't get a cab so they [TS]

  decided to cut through a dark dark le [TS]

  dangerous Ally because they're dumb [TS]

  yeah and that meant save them when i [TS]

  first saw this movie I it was a crowded [TS]

  house there were loads of people there [TS]

  who were not come [TS]

  book fans they were there because of the [TS]

  marketing and all the stuff that opening [TS]

  scene when you see the but i think one [TS]

  of the descriptions of Gotham City is as [TS]

  long as the hell burst from the ground [TS]

  and kept on going [TS]

  when you see that opening claustrophobic [TS]

  shot shot there were people in the [TS]

  audience who were clearly not regular [TS]

  Batman fans who just audibly gasps oh my [TS]

  god this is horrific [TS]

  you know right the right then and there [TS]

  that art direction is just coming at you [TS]

  and it's not [TS]

  Dayglow sixties pop art that's for sure [TS]

  who are you I'm Batman [TS]

  here it is oh we we did that ad [TS]

  infinitum on its are everywhere else i'm [TS]

  back mad by then you're saying you [TS]

  stopped [TS]

  well no I don't think it's just slow [TS]

  down some some people went and got day [TS]

  jobs and didn't do it anymore but now i [TS]

  remember going up to a drive-through I [TS]

  don't want to say it was a McDonald's [TS]

  but it could have been a taco bell and [TS]

  and what is it can I help you have [TS]

  everyone in the car when I'm Batman [TS]

  yeah he threatens the one guy a lot but [TS]

  he but he says no no I'll send out you [TS]

  can send a message my notes here are all [TS]

  about how this I think is very [TS]

  definitely trying to reflect the new [TS]

  york city of this period this is a [TS]

  crumbling sleazy metropolis except often [TS]

  city it's not metropolis to Gotham City [TS]

  but it is it is very much that eighties [TS]

  sleazy garbagey New York that we're [TS]

  seeing in in Gotham it's gross [TS]

  the hipsters have not come yet know it's [TS]

  gross but it's also got art deco and [TS]

  gargoyles everywhere [TS]

  hmm sure it's a cooler city that's gone [TS]

  to credit and tommy guns the police [TS]

  carry tommy guns i love how I i love how [TS]

  just an anachronistic the whole thing is [TS]

  and they're all in like weird leather [TS]

  jackets that you know are you know the [TS]

  me I i think the word that comes to mind [TS]

  is it is discount finish where um yeah [TS]

  yeah but that's just that's it that's [TS]

  how they do things in Gotham yeah Tony [TS]

  when you can't afford a leather catsuit [TS]

  you know what you do you just cut up [TS]

  some final and so it but [TS]

  that's another yeah anyway I learned a [TS]

  lot in these movies [TS]

  hey so uh so we see Billy Dee Williams [TS]

  appears as Harvey Dent although he [TS]

  doesn't have very much to do in this [TS]

  movie he's just kind of present Jack [TS]

  Nicholson and a Jerry Hall i have a have [TS]

  a scene together jacket jacket is the [TS]

  henchman for the organized crime leader [TS]

  and Jerry Hall is his is his girl but [TS]

  they are stepping out on the side here [TS]

  and we get some lines including decent [TS]

  people shouldn't live here which is good [TS]

  this is Gotham City welcome to it and [TS]

  and what delightful casting is Jack [TS]

  palace you can be Jack Nicholson's boss [TS]

  yeah you just somebody bigger than Jack [TS]

  Nicholson Jack Nicholson is going to be [TS]

  playing this pretty big kind of big [TS]

  remember Jack never got my number one [TS]

  guy [TS]

  it's yeah Jack Palance is great as a [TS]

  Carl Grissom Chris some gruesome right [TS]

  and there's another there's dirty [TS]

  lieutenant Hart who we meet who is one [TS]

  of my least favorite things about this [TS]

  movie because he's just kind of a fat [TS]

  slob who is like dubbed in i think yeah [TS]

  I would I couldn't tell if what was [TS]

  going I wasn't sure if somebody if he [TS]

  was eight ER in his own lines or [TS]

  somebody else was covering them but yeah [TS]

  like noticeably doesn't match up the way [TS]

  he's dubbed to is strange [TS]

  he's dubbed as if he's communicating but [TS]

  the the voice is so soft and gravely [TS]

  that there's no way that any any noise [TS]

  at that volume could have been [TS]

  understandable by any of the other [TS]

  characters in the scene and I just don't [TS]

  I I never liked the character and I [TS]

  never liked the way he talked but it was [TS]

  only watching it back this time that I [TS]

  realized he's just completely dubbed in [TS]

  and I don't even know why and its kind [TS]

  of slightly gravely and anyway he's a [TS]

  crooked cop and and he's gross and his [TS]

  voice is super strange and and it's [TS]

  Porkins yeah yeah [TS]

  Porkins it's so bizarre to me well the [TS]

  butt with a weird dubbed again it might [TS]

  be him it might be somebody else mr. is [TS]

  it's very strange required a monthly I [TS]

  don't get that shit together [TS]

  someone else took up all the oxygen in [TS]

  the room before he got any life [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  we meet a couple other characters early [TS]

  on here too we we meet knocks the the [TS]

  reporter played by room TVs Robert wool [TS]

  oh I love knocks because Robert was [TS]

  playing him like he's the star of the [TS]

  movie yet haven't no no one told you see [TS]

  he's almost in a different movie [TS]

  he's like a wacky wacky journalism movie [TS]

  that is not the movies and it's it is [TS]

  very french maid and halfway through the [TS]

  movie he just drops out like he's off [TS]

  following scoops or something but it's [TS]

  like the movie said oh wait [TS]

  we've got Batman sorry Robert no he's [TS]

  like kind of any movie come with you I'm [TS]

  gonna do some stuff in the movies like [TS]

  no I remember him doing the late-night [TS]

  chat show circuit around this time and [TS]

  he was actually he was acting like it [TS]

  was his movie there too [TS]

  yeah this is terrible i remember on the [TS]

  comedy channel that he would do one of [TS]

  the going to commercial bumpers and it [TS]

  was mostly him complaining that he got a [TS]

  great contract that said he got a cut of [TS]

  the toy rights but then he discovered [TS]

  you only got a cut of his toy right and [TS]

  you were not a lot of plucky reporter [TS]

  toys being sold [TS]

  hey I had I had the plucky reporters [TS]

  journalist notebook and pen and and the [TS]

  snap brim hat you gotta you gotta give a [TS]

  couple dollars to Robert well that's [TS]

  okay he's got are less money now it's [TS]

  fine and we and we also meet kim [TS]

  basinger as Vicki Vale who is introduced [TS]

  so you know they're trying to do the on [TS]

  some kind of a battery thing between [TS]

  Robert wall and kim basinger her and I [TS]

  can't decide whether it's gross or [TS]

  whether it's amusing because he's so bad [TS]

  at it [TS]

  I tend to plump for the ladder yeah that [TS]

  that he's he's that bad at it she's [TS]

  humoring him because she needed help [TS]

  yeah I think he's the only one who's got [TS]

  the banter going on she's just humoring [TS]

  yeah but she's like it all gets summed [TS]

  up later on when at one point you know [TS]

  he's like expressing concern or [TS]

  something and she puts both her hands on [TS]

  his face and give them a quick little [TS]

  kiss your you're cute yorkie pups [TS]

  through it you can tell she's a serious [TS]

  reporter because she wears glasses [TS]

  sometimes huh right you can you can [TS]

  definitely tell that but they are again [TS]

  it is it is kind of a fun fun tone but [TS]

  it's a little bit weird because it's it [TS]

  is like from another movie about plucky [TS]

  reporters but it's really just to get us [TS]

  into this other story that were that [TS]

  were going to get with with Batman which [TS]

  is fine i I actually made a note at this [TS]

  point to that at points rubber walls [TS]

  performance reminds me a little bit of [TS]

  like Bill Murray in ghostbusters it's [TS]

  that kind of eccentric and bizarre and [TS]

  there's the whole thing where where [TS]

  they're in Bruce Wayne's uh that mansion [TS]

  and they're like wander into the Hall of [TS]

  weapons like the museum room must be a [TS]

  hang of the wicker people and things [TS]

  like that where it's just the strange [TS]

  you know but look at this look at that [TS]

  mirror he must be Bruce vain [TS]

  I'm like again and again and again it's [TS]

  just nice girl and i genuinely enjoy him [TS]

  he's not putting a lot of energy out in [TS]

  a role that he has to know isn't that [TS]

  important [TS]

  good for him i think he thinks it's that [TS]

  important i'm sorry and godbless [TS]

  important lesson yes I enjoy and I'm [TS]

  surprised how much of his dialogue I I i [TS]

  know i like know by heart the right wall [TS]

  dialogue is wacky and it gets you into [TS]

  the movie and yeah and then he is [TS]

  discarded but he's kind of fun while you [TS]

  sit around he serves His function and [TS]

  goes on [TS]

  yeah he doesn't die no he doesn't so we [TS]

  get to kiss on the check instead on this [TS]

  way in fact that the oh yeah that's [TS]

  that's a happy ending in Gotham [TS]

  well it's not a pure it's not a pure [TS]

  origin movie it's sort of the first [TS]

  appearance of Batman but we don't get [TS]

  the we don't get the let's go to Nanda [TS]

  Parbat and have training site once this [TS]

  kind of stuff so in the beginning that [TS]

  man's a mystery and Knox's the character [TS]

  that is sort of investigating the [TS]

  mystery and that that's our gateway in [TS]

  and then that this everything shifts [TS]

  over to Michael Keaton and there's [TS]

  nothing for him to do and right good [TS]

  riddance [TS]

  good riddance also we get what you get [TS]

  in in there in around this part i'm not [TS]

  going to go point by point here but this [TS]

  is where we get to see Michael Keaton we [TS]

  get to see Michael koffice as Alfred as [TS]

  well in some of these scenes in here [TS]

  Michael Keaton so we talked about it I i [TS]

  think i think this movie does a good job [TS]

  of of getting a [TS]

  introduced to Bruce Wayne and and I i [TS]

  think yeah you spend a few minutes with [TS]

  Michael Keaton is Bruce Wayne and I feel [TS]

  like i buy into it is like oh IC IC why [TS]

  Michael Keaton's in this movie because I [TS]

  think he does i think he does a good job [TS]

  my favorite Bruce Wayne of any movie [TS]

  yes i like i like his version of like [TS]

  weirdo eccentric I Bruce Wayne because [TS]

  there's so many versions of Bruce Wayne [TS]

  as the like the polished millionaire [TS]

  playboy who is smooth talking and this I [TS]

  like this guy who's just like no he's [TS]

  awkward and weird and spend a lot of [TS]

  time sitting by himself being brought [TS]

  sandwiches by offered and doesn't really [TS]

  know how to talk to people also he's [TS]

  apparently not a celebrity and Gotham [TS]

  not everybody knows what he looks like [TS]

  and he's just this weird guy who throws [TS]

  kind of benefit party things at his [TS]

  house i like i like awkward Bruce Wayne [TS]

  I details to enjoy himself at the party [TS]

  like when he sneaks behind the the two [TS]

  reporters and they're going to his [TS]

  Museum he's watching them and he's [TS]

  genuinely amused i feel like this is the [TS]

  only Bruce Wayne from the movies i would [TS]

  actually watch a movie about right yeah [TS]

  right well in in in retrospect he's you [TS]

  know I don't know how intentional was [TS]

  but it's it's almost like he's playing [TS]

  Bruce Wayne somewhere on the spectrum [TS]

  right he's clearly a genius is of course [TS]

  the world's greatest detective and of [TS]

  course this is a movie where we get to [TS]

  see that for once we get to know Bruce [TS]

  Wayne instead of just Batman or just as [TS]

  a cover for Batman and and i love that [TS]

  and you know you get the impression that [TS]

  he could fake being cool and suave if he [TS]

  had to but this is a little bit more [TS]

  like himself at least in this part of [TS]

  the movie I was a mild comic book geek [TS]

  going high school college and if for [TS]

  this movie [TS]

  the reason that I went was because they [TS]

  cast Michael Keaton an accident that I [TS]

  really really loved and was really [TS]

  invested in and I was looking at the [TS]

  blowback of you know it can't be and I'm [TS]

  like yes it can you know yes it can [TS]

  trust me [TS]

  anybody can be hiding under that suit [TS]

  but you've got to have somebody with his [TS]

  kind of charm and wackiness and [TS]

  instability [TS]

  I mean that that you're dealing with a [TS]

  young man who [TS]

  you know who lost his parents were [TS]

  killed in front of his eyes at a very [TS]

  young age and his reaction to that is to [TS]

  go and trained himself to the utmost to [TS]

  to do something about it and not just do [TS]

  something about it but I'm gonna dress [TS]

  up like a bat and scare these criminals [TS]

  are you need a Michael Keaton to pull [TS]

  that character off [TS]

  yeah and I think that's not normal know [TS]

  exactly but that's not normal and and it [TS]

  to the extent that you know a couple [TS]

  movies later [TS]

  did you brought they brought in this val [TS]

  kilmer guide to be Bruce Wayne and he's [TS]

  a conventional hero compared to Michael [TS]

  Keaton who is just nuts [TS]

  he is let not want to know you want to [TS]

  get nuts he's got that Betelgeuse scene [TS]

  where you see all that manic energy [TS]

  right I I feel like eating gets lost [TS]

  inside the Batsuit but that's not when [TS]

  you need the actor to do the best job [TS]

  you need him to do the best job as a [TS]

  ruse Wayne and Keaton is mesmerizing [TS]

  that Batman in the Batsuit could almost [TS]

  be played by a stockman yeah right [TS]

  huh it's the mr. Bruce Wayne you've got [TS]

  a lot of really fine i acting from [TS]

  Keaton when he's in the suit and [TS]

  occasionally his yet some of his ideas [TS]

  expressions come thru yes it's a quirk [TS]

  of the mouth it says so much [TS]

  yeah you know yeah in fact there is a [TS]

  recent Batman movie that also involves [TS]

  Superman huh [TS]

  what would they call that movie i think [TS]

  it's called Batman comma and also [TS]

  Superman and to briefly reference that [TS]

  movie i really liked Batman whenever it [TS]

  was just Ben Affleck not a student [TS]

  already got interested i can see there's [TS]

  a CGI monster or something but there was [TS]

  cool acting as Bruce Wayne and that's [TS]

  the closest we're going to get to a bed [TS]

  member Superman episode right there [TS]

  there was an episode 493 contractual [TS]

  obligation fulfilled the the teasers [TS]

  they've put out for the Justice League [TS]

  movie I really well-known like now in [TS]

  and the layout no no no no nope nope [TS]

  nope [TS]

  this episode of the incomparable is [TS]

  brought to you by blue apron i'm really [TS]

  excited to have them as a sponsor I've [TS]

  been a blue apron customer for more than [TS]

  a year and it's really been great for [TS]

  our family [TS]

  blue apron brings food to your table you [TS]

  get a box every week and it's got great [TS]

  stuff inside the sea food is sourced [TS]

  sustainably understand its developed in [TS]

  partnership with the Monterey Bay [TS]

  Aquarium Seafood Watch the beef is [TS]

  raised you mainly the chickens are [TS]

  free-range the pork is raised naturally [TS]

  can be delivered to ninety-nine percent [TS]

  of the continental US and blue apron [TS]

  ships the exact amount of each [TS]

  ingredient required for a recipe so they [TS]

  are reducing food waste we have just [TS]

  enough to enjoy the meal and that's [TS]

  about it and cooking together can be [TS]

  great for kids families this summer [TS]

  my wife made a point of cooking with our [TS]

  kids with the blue aprons meals that got [TS]

  clear recipes and instructions that you [TS]

  can follow and that was a whole lot of [TS]

  fun research shows that blue apron [TS]

  families cook nearly three times more [TS]

  often some of the meals available in [TS]

  january from blue apron just to give you [TS]

  an idea of the kind of stuff that you [TS]

  can get in this box seared pork chops [TS]

  with Pharaoh and cranberry chutney [TS]

  spaghetti squash and marinara with [TS]

  mushrooms and garlic knots spicy shrimp [TS]

  and korean rice cakes with cabbage and [TS]

  for a cocky we have a huge folder full [TS]

  of blue apron recipes that we want to [TS]

  make again on a regular basis because we [TS]

  love them so much when they came from [TS]

  blue apron [TS]

  it's really great check out this week's [TS]

  menu and get your first 3 meals free [TS]

  with free shipping what a deal by going [TS]

  to blue apron dot-com / smell you'll [TS]

  love how good it feels and tastes to [TS]

  create incredible home-cooked meals with [TS]

  blue apron so don't wait [TS]

  blue apron dot-com / smell blue apron a [TS]

  better way to cook so I want to give [TS]

  some praise here is where I mean it was [TS]

  great my Michael golf is great i do love [TS]

  I mean tony mentioned like Alfred brings [TS]

  him sandwiches but it's like it is this [TS]

  this is a great moment where you know [TS]

  it's like you know it's just us here in [TS]

  this old mansion and he he encourages [TS]

  Bruce and and Vicki to get together at [TS]

  several points brings her to him in the [TS]

  Batcave at the end of the movie and it's [TS]

  just he's just so so delightful the [TS]

  whole time I I [TS]

  think i think has there been great [TS]

  Alfred's in movies but i really love [TS]

  Michael gasps performances as Alfred [TS]

  he's just just delightful and helpful [TS]

  and friendly and loving and you know and [TS]

  and fatherly yeah exactly right i mean [TS]

  we're jumping kinda head I i love the [TS]

  scene where vicki and Bruce have their [TS]

  kind of their date and then Alfred kind [TS]

  of the day it starts with the this yet [TS]

  whether the judge with joke Adams jokes [TS]

  shot rather the long ends of the table [TS]

  into classic and then they go from that [TS]

  to like hanging out in the kitchen with [TS]

  Alfred so nice i like that a lot [TS]

  that's that's because that's Bruce Wayne [TS]

  getting over himself for getting over [TS]

  his I think it's getting over his view [TS]

  of himself and like he should be and [TS]

  then just being like they I like how you [TS]

  actually see him like pick up his plate [TS]

  and his wine glass and be like come on [TS]

  let's go and then cut to their in this [TS]

  much warmer kind of wood table little [TS]

  light light wood and then like a kitchen [TS]

  or something with Alfred it's great and [TS]

  just before that that great line when [TS]

  Vicki says that you know I don't think [TS]

  this mansion is very much it is this [TS]

  like you at all and bruce says some of [TS]

  it is very much me know it's it's it's [TS]

  very there some there since this is not [TS]

  going to be considered a subtle movie by [TS]

  a long shot right there are but there [TS]

  are subtleties in Michael Keaton's [TS]

  performance [TS]

  yeah i agree i agree there's a lot of [TS]

  little nice stuff a lot of less stuff [TS]

  with Michael Keaton and Michael Michael [TS]

  cough the okay so yeah we should talk [TS]

  about Jack Nicholson as jack napier and [TS]

  he becomes he becomes the Joker unsubtle [TS]

  half of the no it'sit's not i meannot a [TS]

  carton eckhardt who I didn't like gets [TS]

  shot by jack in a scene at the access [TS]

  chemical plant which i also just to say [TS]

  again that i don't like that character [TS]

  before he gets shot he's like acting [TS]

  like a zombie he's just kind of moving [TS]

  very slowly and kind of going in and [TS]

  it's I don't understand that carry I [TS]

  don't even know why that character is [TS]

  there it's really bad but but the Joker [TS]

  so jack napier who is revealed late in [TS]

  the movie in a coincidence that's [TS]

  probably unnecessary is the person who [TS]

  shot [TS]

  Bruce Wayne's parents yeah [TS]

  f words about that later yeah well we'll [TS]

  get it will circle around that but here [TS]

  he he you know there's a shootout he [TS]

  gets hit by a ricochet Batman tries to [TS]

  capture catch him but he drops into the [TS]

  chemicals and is is dead and will never [TS]

  see him again except of course he [TS]

  resurfaces with the the white face and [TS]

  is the is the Joker so they got my [TS]

  understanding is that they backed up a [TS]

  truck money to Jack Nicholson's house [TS]

  and they said you can be in our movie [TS]

  will pay you a lot of money you can go [TS]

  to all the laker games will make sure [TS]

  that we schedule around you and we limit [TS]

  the amount of time you have to spend on [TS]

  this movie but you know it was quite a [TS]

  coup to get the guy who was basically [TS]

  considered the best or one of the what [TS]

  two or three best actors on the planet [TS]

  to be in their little superhero movie we [TS]

  got a golden globe nomination he even [TS]

  got Top Billing yeah mmm yeah absolutely [TS]

  and that Joker's a plum role right i [TS]

  mean this is this is this isn't this [TS]

  isn't a role that won an Oscar for [TS]

  somebody else to write it is a quite a [TS]

  role to bite to chew off to bite on [TS]

  jewel I don't know to shoot there's a [TS]

  lot of chewing scenery going on really [TS]

  is what's happening again [TS]

  it's quite a roll yeah when Jack [TS]

  Nicholson puts his all into it and then [TS]

  some [TS]

  and this early in the movie he's also [TS]

  really really good as jack napier yeah [TS]

  and that's that the-the-the minutes the [TS]

  unhinged miss that's just sort of in the [TS]

  background waiting to be released after [TS]

  he takes a bath you know he he's a [TS]

  plausible gangster villain and then then [TS]

  he just he just cuts loose he gets [TS]

  behind the makeup and he just what's [TS]

  that what's that phrase you use a lot [TS]

  Jason turns into the skin just admits to [TS]

  it you know you just gotta go with it [TS]

  right [TS]

  yes he's a jack napier zile operated on [TS]

  by a German doctor who has a very bad [TS]

  set of tools it looks more like [TS]

  something you get info and you can get [TS]

  into Medical why they really did a heck [TS]

  of a job and I think those tools for [TS]

  what you used to like punch holes of [TS]

  letting up but that was that was what [TS]

  tim burton was stocking up for Edward [TS]

  Scissorhands so it's bad but that's bad [TS]

  news for Jack Palance he's not gonna [TS]

  make it because uh because jack napier [TS]

  has come back from the dead he knows [TS]

  that he he was sent to the axis chemical [TS]

  plant as a setup because he was stepping [TS]

  out with with his girl [TS]

  jerry hall so sugar bumps sugar bumps [TS]

  just putting it out there and so yeah so [TS]

  he kills a he kills Jack Palance I had [TS]

  to jagannatha told me to kill jack [TS]

  palance and says wait till they get a [TS]

  load of me but interesting decision by [TS]

  Jack Nicholson an interesting decision [TS]

  by tim burton to leave it in at and I [TS]

  I'd say this is a representative of how [TS]

  far they let Nicholson go with this [TS]

  he doesn't just say wait till they get a [TS]

  load of me he then goes whoo whoop em [TS]

  haha and they just leave it all in just [TS]

  letting you know for sure I'm insane but [TS]

  it's not even that he's saying wait till [TS]

  they get a load of me its weight only [TS]

  get a load of me he follows it up with a [TS]

  sound and then another weird sound a [TS]

  maniacal laugh and tim burton's like [TS]

  yeah we're just gonna keep all that in [TS]

  just let a roll there's a dance he does [TS]

  when he leaves one of the seems that [TS]

  it's just like it blows my mind that [TS]

  that's that's this that's in there is a [TS]

  few times where Nicholson is just [TS]

  goofing around at the end of the team [TS]

  they leave it in there is the time he [TS]

  tells his really loyal henchmen in a [TS]

  black Palace imitation you my number one [TS]

  guy he and then the guy leaves and [TS]

  nickel just standing there going [TS]

  do-do-do-do-do-do VD just move it off [TS]

  but the Joker could just be goofing off [TS]

  let's leave it in its great he is not [TS]

  concerned about what like there's a lot [TS]

  where he's just a room by himself but [TS]

  it's like no peace still going he does [TS]

  not need an audience but when he has an [TS]

  audio yeah it goes up to love even [TS]

  bigger [TS]

  yeah like it when they hit the museum [TS]

  okay here's what we're doing guys [TS]

  oh yeah let's see what else in there [TS]

  Bruce Bruce lies to vicki vale after [TS]

  they've spent the night together [TS]

  I says he's got to go out of town but [TS]

  Alfred [TS]

  basically gives gives that away awkward [TS]

  like yeah yeah that was that was well [TS]

  you you're supposed to let your Butler [TS]

  know that you've gotta yeah you [TS]

  should've gone with it though i suppose [TS]

  i'm thinking that this alfred was not a [TS]

  former spy i think it offered in this is [TS]

  not used to Bruce Wayne as a woman i was [TS]

  a playboy right so much so he doesn't [TS]

  have the moves down it like oh yes we [TS]

  are going out of town [TS]

  ya soon as Bruce has a girlfriend [TS]

  girlfriend gets brought down to the bad [TS]

  hey so alpha tango what so that you've [TS]

  got a girl now [TS]

  yeah but there's no they don't have any [TS]

  pop formal policies written up it's a [TS]

  problem I owe the Joker has a meeting of [TS]

  all the crime lords in ya Gotham City [TS]

  they have a little meeting little table [TS]

  gang of gangs yeah I love his vanity [TS]

  that he's got the flesh-colored makeup [TS]

  plastered on top of his chalk white skin [TS]

  and this one and hit that looks even [TS]

  more creepy that's one of my favorite [TS]

  things is that his skin is naturally [TS]

  white with the smile but sometimes he [TS]

  puts makeup on to have it look normal [TS]

  and then later on the movie tells Batman [TS]

  i have taken off my makeup [TS]

  let's see if you can take off yours [TS]

  except he hasn't taken off his makeup [TS]

  he's put more makeup on right yeah well [TS]

  it's it's not it's not that it's vanity [TS]

  it's he's he he knows nobody knows what [TS]

  he looks like yet anybody also wants to [TS]

  freak them out as the makeup starts to [TS]

  crack and peel away the smile looks [TS]

  pretty freaked out about to me [TS]

  yeah weird prosthetic it is weird he [TS]

  killed he kills a guy with the joy [TS]

  buzzer [TS]

  you mentioned the you're my number one [TS]

  guy and all that Bob I enjoy Bob [TS]

  throughout this movie is not right now [TS]

  he is a little bit Larry Darrell and [TS]

  Darrell but he's quite enjoyable as just [TS]

  loyal sidekick guy who keeps saying [TS]

  things his lines are all like yes sir [TS]

  that's it that's all Bob does i have [TS]

  watched him for years I saw him on WKRP [TS]

  in the first season and when [TS]

  wow that's a really weird guy huh and [TS]

  then he was also in a show called best [TS]

  of the west from the makers of taxi [TS]

  which was a Western thing and he played [TS]

  a henchman named fraud [TS]

  and that was delightful it's tracy [TS]

  Walter is the name of the actor enjoyed [TS]

  when the Joker's gang shows up to the [TS]

  point guns at all the boss leaders that [TS]

  they already have embroidered jackets [TS]

  with like patches of the Joker's face [TS]

  it's like that's how you know they're [TS]

  good management group is that they've [TS]

  already like day one we've got invited [TS]

  jackets ready to go like the movies of [TS]

  marketing behavior yeah yeah that's [TS]

  Joker's got all sorts of stuff will see [TS]

  even more stuff the Joker's got ready to [TS]

  go ready to deploy he's he's crafted [TS]

  people in both senses of the word [TS]

  oh he's just my type yeah so let's see [TS]

  what else I mean jack napier then [TS]

  attacks various gangsters Bruce Wayne is [TS]

  is stunned and shocked by this Batman [TS]

  gets all the headlines even though [TS]

  Napier's attacked all the gangsters he's [TS]

  very upset that we get this town needs [TS]

  an enema that line happens here in this [TS]

  in this area again jack nicholson what [TS]

  can you say just yeah he's clearing the [TS]

  trailer [TS]

  yeah well here is the trailer right be [TS]

  he's a whole both of these movies have a [TS]

  lot of press conferences in them like a [TS]

  lot of press conferences in them a lot [TS]

  of on the steps of City Hall the one [TS]

  that I find the weirdest is that there [TS]

  is the Mafia press conference that the [TS]

  Joker and his mind to people that that [TS]

  one that one confused me a little bit [TS]

  but again i did not live in Gotham in [TS]

  1980 night I maybe that's just business [TS]

  as usual but like yeah if I'm if I'm [TS]

  running the organized crime i would hold [TS]

  less press conferences what I'm saying [TS]

  maybe none maybe none maybe I mean look [TS]

  just throwing that out there huh that's [TS]

  the one where nobody notices the [TS]

  extremely amateurish minds around the [TS]

  place right [TS]

  yep yep yep you know again I guys you [TS]

  guys are older than me i'm just i'm [TS]

  assuming a lot about what 1998-1999 was [TS]

  like there weren't that many minds all [TS]

  the way there are mines and how many [TS]

  what was the mind to press conference [TS]

  ratio is what i mask it well let me tell [TS]

  you about a couple named shields and [TS]

  Yarnell era para primes and they were [TS]

  huge they had their own show [TS]

  they did have yeah the seventies yes [TS]

  they did a god I'm suddenly feeling [TS]

  younger is anybody there [TS]

  there's a point at which vicki vale [TS]

  suddenly is way more interested in using [TS]

  her newspapers resources to look up [TS]

  information about her boyfriend then to [TS]

  investigate Batman is she supposed to be [TS]

  doing she seems to have a lot of free [TS]

  range from her previous highly [TS]

  successful photojournalism run in that [TS]

  island that she just came back from we [TS]

  haven't actually talked a whole lot [TS]

  about Vicki Vale and I think there's a [TS]

  reason for the hands [TS]

  I have to know you think which are an [TS]

  amazing apartment [TS]

  yes and in one scene she has a Padawan [TS]

  braid yeah okay just one little braids [TS]

  on the side of her head going down over [TS]

  her shoulder she might be a jet by now i [TS]

  remember being rather irritated at one [TS]

  point watching the movie at some point [TS]

  it may not have been the first time but [TS]

  at a subsequent watching because when [TS]

  they introduce her she's you know shown [TS]

  to be very capable award-winning [TS]

  globe-trotting photojournalist looking [TS]

  for the the heavy hard stories [TS]

  yeah um and so it's yet Robert walls [TS]

  character you know somewhat [TS]

  understandably you're going to chase [TS]

  Batman it doesn't quite seem to fit [TS]

  um and then about halfway through the [TS]

  movie or so all of a sudden there's [TS]

  apparently nothing left for kim basinger [TS]

  to do then scream or dangle from a Ledge [TS]

  or cord or something or faint and it's [TS]

  like you're not [TS]

  she was doing well she could have [TS]

  contributed the amount of her dialogue [TS]

  that is her screaming in reaction to [TS]

  something is like a lot began well okay [TS]

  so I like the scene where she's on the [TS]

  rooftop and she immediately starts [TS]

  taking pictures of Batman fighting in [TS]

  the alley right that's good news sense [TS]

  like that that's the scene where I'm [TS]

  like okay she's doing her job and of [TS]

  course right then uses the Old Cape [TS]

  trick to steal the film out of her bra [TS]

  but I be on Cape trick you okay yeah [TS]

  that does that a lot he's like who [TS]

  there's a cape and what happens then [TS]

  nobody knows it's under the Cape was a [TS]

  mystery that's how Batman does it all [TS]

  sorts of magic tricks [TS]

  anyway so that's good but then you're [TS]

  right a other than that she's mostly a [TS]

  damsel i do think that when she when [TS]

  Alfred brings her into the Batcave [TS]

  toward the end but that's a nice [TS]

  where she's being like supportive I i [TS]

  find her her support for Bruce nice but [TS]

  again that's being supportive and not [TS]

  you know but at but at the same time [TS]

  she's kind of like breaking down his [TS]

  shell so there are moments in there [TS]

  whenever she's put in any sort of like [TS]

  part of the plot like the wind with the [TS]

  Joker the art museum is the most [TS]

  disappointing one because although she [TS]

  she gives a push back to him a little [TS]

  bit you know like when when she goes to [TS]

  comfort him with because he got covered [TS]

  in water and he's melting like it's just [TS]

  dumb like why would you do that in jan [TS]

  there's also lots of lots of the [TS]

  screaming lots again we're almost at the [TS]

  Museum attack actually but I i wanted to [TS]

  mention a couple other things I enjoy [TS]

  the new TV news as we see it in this [TS]

  movie not the first off the outfit on [TS]

  the the first anchor woman who dies is [TS]

  staggering [TS]

  it looks like it's like a jacket with [TS]

  shoulder pads but it looks literally [TS]

  looks like she's wearing a parka it is [TS]

  so huge and padded it is amazing [TS]

  she's not the only one can be a singer [TS]

  and Robert wool yeah there's a lot of [TS]

  shoulder pad action in this room well [TS]

  it's against wasn't talking head suit [TS]

  like he's nowhere near the outside is [TS]

  what it is but that one first [TS]

  anchorwoman is the most extreme of all [TS]

  of them but i really loved the joke [TS]

  where they discovered that the cosmetics [TS]

  are poisoned and they don't know exactly [TS]

  where the poison is and then for the [TS]

  rest of the the movie the TV anchors [TS]

  have no makeup on and they've been made [TS]

  to have blemishes and things all over [TS]

  their faces that kills me after your [TS]

  hair their hair looks awful [TS]

  so it doesn't need to be there because [TS]

  they don't even have combs anymore it's [TS]

  just a joke [TS]

  yeah and it's mainly mainly affects TV [TS]

  anchors Vicki Vale is doing fine [TS]

  Tom you know she's not what she imports [TS]

  all of her husband watches ok thank you [TS]

  and can accepted and so we're off to the [TS]

  museum so uh Vicki give Alfred get a [TS]

  call saying she'll be 10 minutes late to [TS]

  the museum but to meet Bruce but that is [TS]

  a he's not meeting her there so that's a [TS]

  bad sign i think that this looks like a [TS]

  job for Batman and what happens is the [TS]

  gas the Joker the Joker attacks they [TS]

  gasp the museum [TS]

  and then immediately the Joker and [TS]

  enhancement after everybody drops [TS]

  Vicki's got a little mask that she's [TS]

  been given by a in a little package and [TS]

  told put this on immediately everybody [TS]

  drops because of the gas and then the [TS]

  Joker and his people walk in which is [TS]

  interesting because you think there [TS]

  would still be gas but they have no [TS]

  masks [TS]

  it's fine it's fine it's time for a [TS]

  dance party and finally Prince shows up [TS]

  is this good time to talk about princes [TS]

  concrete yeah this is the time because [TS]

  they play they play a song arm on the [TS]

  boom box as they go through and deface [TS]

  all the art or Sorry Sorry improve the [TS]

  art as Joker would tell us and we play a [TS]

  prince song as as that goes on there's [TS]

  another prints on later during the [TS]

  parade prince was in quite a coup was [TS]

  commissioned to basically do in a [TS]

  batman-themed album and those songs [TS]

  would be in the movie and then the end [TS]

  and then what happened was Tim Burton [TS]

  said I'm not really interested in that [TS]

  you have you heard my boy Elfman he's [TS]

  got a really good theme [TS]

  yeah well Danny Elfman we could talk [TS]

  about that i think that i think this is [TS]

  one of my favorite movie scores of all [TS]

  time I love the danny elfman score but [TS]

  it is kind of amazing that they got an [TS]

  entire album by Prince that a lot of [TS]

  people really love and it's it's some of [TS]

  it is played in the background in a [TS]

  couple of scenes but there's literally [TS]

  these two scenes where prince comes to [TS]

  the fore at all and it's expressed like [TS]

  part of the plot right right thats that [TS]

  the only use that that Tim Burton has [TS]

  four Prince's like if they're playing [TS]

  music in the movie will play a prince [TS]

  song but otherwise forget it [TS]

  otherwise it's just going to be score [TS]

  did they pick Prince just because he [TS]

  likes purple and the Joker likes purple [TS]

  I don't all i think this was again just [TS]

  a marketing uh you know the marketing [TS]

  behemoth kicking in and he was he was [TS]

  like the biggest thing on warner music [TS]

  more music yeah and they said let's [TS]

  let's make this energy happen [TS]

  yeah and he played saturday night live [TS]

  during the promotion for this stuff and [TS]

  all I can remember is that he did party [TS]

  man [TS]

  and.and who entrust and he's performing [TS]

  those songs on the SNL stage with the [TS]

  giant Batman that logo of course lying [TS]

  behind them because you know I don't [TS]

  know who is intended to be bigger at [TS]

  this point prince or Batman [TS]

  merchandising well i think that was [TS]

  where Prince got his idea to change his [TS]

  name to a giant symbol gonna be [TS]

  unfortunately batman logo was was taken [TS]

  so we couldn't do that [TS]

  Batman princess batman logo hit number [TS]

  one on the billboard album chart it was [TS]

  it was a it was a big seller even though [TS]

  you can barely hear in the movie I just [TS]

  I I wonder what movie would be like I I [TS]

  feel like a modern a more modern movie [TS]

  would have gone all the way with like [TS]

  Prince wall-to-wall and I'm not sure [TS]

  whether that would have been better or [TS]

  worse but it would have been very [TS]

  different from what we get with with [TS]

  these two to the two tracks being played [TS]

  trust and Parliament and and the music I [TS]

  mean just bad dance was the video for [TS]

  that was what like 45 minutes or even [TS]

  six minutes and it was on every hour on [TS]

  mtv furling three days i'm telling you [TS]

  the marketing for this movie brilliant i [TS]

  own a lot of bad songs easily the worst [TS]

  song i own and that means it's worse [TS]

  than all of disco Evita is a cover of [TS]

  batt dance cover we have when i worked [TS]

  at a movie theater we had a CD of a [TS]

  generic bands versions of various movie [TS]

  theme songs because they didn't want to [TS]

  pay for the full rights and some poor [TS]

  girl had to record it and not use any of [TS]

  the samples so they had to get a new [TS]

  actress into the oh my do to go [TS]

  vicki vale vale be keeping that makes me [TS]

  feel like I wasted my time memorizing [TS]

  that song back in the day he got ways to [TS]

  shut the investment ship you can get [TS]

  that back by creating your own cover [TS]

  version you've invested in yourself [TS]

  every day here from now on they couldn't [TS]

  even be bothered to playback dance over [TS]

  the end credits [TS]

  yeah yeah I know right i mean [TS]

  that'sthat's i do think that it's a [TS]

  missed opportunity there it's also just [TS]

  a sign of the left hand and the right [TS]

  hand not knowing what each other was [TS]

  doing that by tim burton well so I have [TS]

  a lot of theories about this movie that [TS]

  maybe i'll get to before we [TS]

  it's a batman returns that but there's [TS]

  definitely the conflict between the [TS]

  studio and the marketing and the giant [TS]

  machine and Tim Burton who likes to make [TS]

  weird quirky tweet little movies there [TS]

  was a lot of conflict creatively about [TS]

  this movie and I think it's amazing that [TS]

  that it turns out as well as it does [TS]

  given all of that [TS]

  well I mean you had John Peters [TS]

  producing or executive producing and he [TS]

  was kind of insane mom you know and I'm [TS]

  sure prince was his idea and and going [TS]

  here let's do this and let's do that [TS]

  let's do this and and I know that the [TS]

  ending was not tim burton's idea that [TS]

  wasn't in the script it was John Peters [TS]

  going hey would it be awesome if they [TS]

  like climb to the top of the cathedral [TS]

  and the whole thing took place up there [TS]

  and why do we kill Vicki Vale and then [TS]

  Batman will get really angry [TS]

  it's like okay and and he went ahead and [TS]

  had the thing constructed without [TS]

  clearing it with anybody was just like [TS]

  here this is gonna be the end of the [TS]

  movie and they actually and like they [TS]

  asked to Burton's like why are we [TS]

  climbing to the top of the thing because [TS]

  i don't know we'll figure it out when [TS]

  you get there and they had to redo that [TS]

  so that's that's kinda like the movie a [TS]

  microcosm the original screen [TS]

  screenwriter was a guy named sam ham and [TS]

  then a guy named warrants car and came [TS]

  in after it so alliteration was [TS]

  absolutely important while riding right [TS]

  but I mean yeah thank you [TS]

  I and my understanding is the Sam ham [TS]

  script was fairly straight and you have [TS]

  monkey you have lines that survived of [TS]

  the the the rewrite and temperance [TS]

  direction that get completely turned [TS]

  over like the the Joker cylindrical e it [TS]

  you might join me for a week after the [TS]

  weird confrontation between Bruce Wayne [TS]

  and the Joker and Vicki and he plays it [TS]

  for Laughs things like that there is so [TS]

  much dissonance in this movie between [TS]

  temper and sensibilities and and the [TS]

  screenwriters is this a serious movie or [TS]

  is tim burton taking the piss out of [TS]

  superheroes in general because he's Tim [TS]

  Burton [TS]

  you're right it'sit's it's amazing that [TS]

  this movie is this is successful as it [TS]

  is because these parts don't fit no no [TS]

  they really don't know there are other [TS]

  parts to that that will get 22 because [TS]

  there's that the whole romantic comedy [TS]

  part that comes back again later [TS]

  that's like a totally other movie said [TS]

  that also happens in here it's like When [TS]

  Harry Met Sally if Harry was Batman [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  hey will but I don't know what she's [TS]

  happy so the museum the museum scene i [TS]

  like because it is this manic Joker [TS]

  dancing around the prince and I think [TS]

  that's pretty good [TS]

  there's some great dialogue in here this [TS]

  is this is quality Joker antics write [TS]

  like this is the one-dollar bill i like [TS]

  that that's pretty good [TS]

  uh I don't know if it's art but i like [TS]

  it like he says at that painting the [TS]

  one-dollar bill and then a scene later [TS]

  he says what he wants is to have his [TS]

  face on the one-dollar bill and I like [TS]

  to think the Joker just thought of it [TS]

  because he just saw panting I like the [TS]

  one where they go by the really weird [TS]

  painting and he's like I I don't touch [TS]

  this one I kinda like it [TS]

  they move on its we're creating a move [TS]

  on it's good and then and then I I like [TS]

  how it all comes together where he tells [TS]

  vicki vale I'm an artist I'm a car i'm a [TS]

  card until someone dies that's what i do [TS]

  and it's like all right I get the Joker [TS]

  now is it a night Jerry Hall comes back [TS]

  and Jerry Hall yeah exactly who he is [TS]

  he's a he's really hide that she's [TS]

  wearing them at why she wearing the mask [TS]

  and she's acting all weird and then yeah [TS]

  she just make it but that man comes to [TS]

  say Vicky before we can get more time in [TS]

  the in the museum but i just i love the [TS]

  museum scene i love i love ya i love the [TS]

  whole thing it's weird and and funny and [TS]

  and yeah it's good and that leads [TS]

  directly into a Batmobile that we have [TS]

  never seen yeah that's right before him [TS]

  that movie live one note which is the if [TS]

  I had to say there's one perfect shot in [TS]

  Batman it is probably my favorite shot [TS]

  the movie is when he comes through the [TS]

  skylight in the museum and the whole [TS]

  Cape is like fully now like like you see [TS]

  the whole Cape coming down i love that [TS]

  that's great and then the whole thing [TS]

  where he just sort of worth I think [TS]

  wordlessly um [TS]

  no just stands there and fires off as [TS]

  very a lot of lot of gadgets and these [TS]

  ones that ropes and then slides away and [TS]

  out the door and then they get into [TS]

  battle which has applied which is this [TS]

  wacky again wacky modular CarDekho [TS]

  high-tech Batmobile thing [TS]

  yeah where did you find the Batmobile in [TS]

  all versions for a Batman for decades [TS]

  like immediately the comics like oh yeah [TS]

  let's do that [TS]

  yeah when they had man the animated [TS]

  series oh no we're gonna look just like [TS]

  this movie and have that bat will be [TS]

  really until christian bale batman i [TS]

  guess where it's a little more it so [TS]

  it's it's a different wider kind of [TS]

  platform thing but yeah that's cool cool [TS]

  Batmobile huh cool when we said let's [TS]

  stop having cool cars have an ugly tank [TS]

  yep yeah i mean i really like the [TS]

  animated version but this would be my [TS]

  second favorite Batmobile so i mean i [TS]

  like that it does not look like any [TS]

  other car right it's it just looks crazy [TS]

  yeah he didn't soup something up now [TS]

  like this is a billion the whole way and [TS]

  it doesn't even in the backyard and it [TS]

  almost doesn't look like a car right [TS]

  like it looks more like like a weird [TS]

  shoe or something in a copper yeah [TS]

  that's good [TS]

  yeah it it's like out torpedo with wheel [TS]

  yeah yeah it's a mash-up between the [TS]

  chrysler building an sr-71 but it [TS]

  doesn't look quite so good it looks [TS]

  great when it's still but when they're [TS]

  driving around with it i think that [TS]

  every out this suspension to tell we [TS]

  break down with it it's gonna be hard to [TS]

  turn that thing on the link [TS]

  yeah yeah it's not just the Batmobile [TS]

  though they're there is the chase that [TS]

  they go through their there is one [TS]

  intersection that it goes through that I [TS]

  I'm not kidding you is the most fake [TS]

  looking set oh yeah I have never seen in [TS]

  a movie where they're driving through [TS]

  and it's like that is not a street that [TS]

  is not available in public that is that [TS]

  is that like that's a backlog but a lot [TS]

  of this movie and and like some of the [TS]

  street seems the parade to is the same [TS]

  way again [TS]

  where it is just super fake and like [TS]

  like minimal effort was made here the [TS]

  art direction for Gotham is great but [TS]

  like they have like two intersections [TS]

  right like they just did and I use them [TS]

  over and over [TS]

  and right like really go meet under that [TS]

  bridge again yes a parade and the press [TS]

  conferences and like you know that like [TS]

  the outside of City Hall and the outside [TS]

  of the like that movie theater like a [TS]

  Chrysler want me to build a block and [TS]

  that's able to block you can get away [TS]

  with that sort of thing on Star Trek [TS]

  cause also all corridors look the same [TS]

  right but this this soundstage is so [TS]

  distinctive not all your corridors can [TS]

  be Crime Alley it doesn't work I'm going [TS]

  to let us leave the beauty and without [TS]

  distracting everybody with my crackpot [TS]

  theory if people would like to hear my [TS]

  crackpot theory email me how are you [TS]

  you want some more email marketing or [TS]

  you can tweet at Mangia Mangia never [TS]

  actually quick and ask him for a [TS]

  crackpot theory so they get digging in [TS]

  an alley they get cotton ali-a Batman [TS]

  decides to flee with Vicki up by by [TS]

  firing his bat whatever-it-is rope thing [TS]

  up and asked her how much she weighs so [TS]

  that there's a wait joke that is made [TS]

  with i rolled my eyes as well especially [TS]

  you already had zip-lined with her like [TS]

  you know [TS]

  yeah I'm not your second you know this [TS]

  is not your first rodeo like yeah he [TS]

  should know the way we're making fat [TS]

  jokes about Kim Basinger really I know [TS]

  right [TS]

  this is not the most feminist movies [TS]

  yeah you don't say sharing like yes they [TS]

  loud cheering like 200 pounds of our [TS]

  chip is this the most feminist Batman [TS]

  movie you see let's dig deeper on this [TS]

  i would say it could be worse but it's [TS]

  not great [TS]

  mr. Drazen pieces now could this be what [TS]

  could be worse but the way joke it [TS]

  stands well you know like i said there [TS]

  are moments with Vicki failing I'm like [TS]

  alright that's good but yeah there are [TS]

  other things that are not but I want to [TS]

  talk about I want to talk about the [TS]

  fights in the alley because there are a [TS]

  whole bunch of Joker's henchmen who come [TS]

  to fight Batman in the alley and they're [TS]

  like there's like a fighter guy and then [TS]

  there's like a ninja and Tony to answer [TS]

  your question in the in the late [TS]

  eighties in Gotham City [TS]

  did we have a lot of ninjas in the [TS]

  actual answers oh god yes yes there were [TS]

  so many ninjas and there are some here [TS]

  some of the henchmen turned out to be [TS]

  ninjas everything I know about New York [TS]

  City is formed from the Ninja Turtles [TS]

  movie not the michael bay 1 and the [TS]

  Warriors so i see i have no problems [TS]

  with this scene so you're missing humble [TS]

  and rocks which is any key component it [TS]

  has the whole alpine part of New York [TS]

  City its means and and here we see one [TS]

  of the biggest limitations of this movie [TS]

  that I never noticed back in 1989 but in [TS]

  the days of the Marvel Cinematic [TS]

  Universe i'm totally scene which is your [TS]

  hero cannot move ya soon so damn big [TS]

  these these fight scenes probably looked [TS]

  great when we have nothing to compare [TS]

  them to but he they're not moving you're [TS]

  not moving [TS]

  although the bad guys bad guys moving in [TS]

  Batman like either steps out of the way [TS]

  or just punches them because that's [TS]

  about all he could I mean he gets shot [TS]

  several times and I guess he's just [TS]

  tough enough that they bounce often i [TS]

  mean i can remember i am NOT approaching [TS]

  this movie with the level of nostalgia [TS]

  that the rest of the team here is and [TS]

  yeah all these action sequences fall [TS]

  pretty yes you're younger than us [TS]

  yeah there's a scene where you can tell [TS]

  what they wrote up was Batman beat up [TS]

  all the thugs and in the background that [TS]

  Joker dances with Vicki fail and it [TS]

  looks great down and boy takes a long [TS]

  time to beat up those thugs he can't [TS]

  even bend your waist plus the books did [TS]

  the usual thing and they went at a one [TS]

  or two at a time [TS]

  well it's sorted they're simple learning [TS]

  center rules never thinks to swarm [TS]

  answer one of them just falls through [TS]

  the floor without touching him huh [TS]

  that's the Batman that good so I mean [TS]

  for me there's three pillars [TS]

  Batman right okay tell me more alright [TS]

  this is good [TS]

  I mean we're getting some church a [TS]

  Batman stuff going on here this good [TS]

  ever know three pillars of Batman you [TS]

  didn't stop me so here I go [TS]

  gadgets detective work and you know [TS]

  ninja skills this movie realize pretty [TS]

  heavily on one pillar of Batman I i [TS]

  would prefer to see a little bit more of [TS]

  an even distribution across the three [TS]

  pillars is what I'm saying [TS]

  so are you saying you want a more [TS]

  holistic but i want ya i want a more [TS]

  complete Batman if you are looking to [TS]

  become think how can you be a more [TS]

  complete Batman right to modify ashley [TS]

  and i'll forward that to me [TS]

  possibly with some editorializing yeah [TS]

  mmm yeah the the suit this i think the [TS]

  suit looks great but he can't handing [TS]

  them know well it looks great when he's [TS]

  not moving in which is most of the time [TS]

  ready kazi and burton thought anything [TS]

  else didn't look threatening enough and [TS]

  see you know looking threatening is not [TS]

  the the key thing with Batman he's got [TS]

  to be able to move [TS]

  yeah but one thing you think of when you [TS]

  think of bats is a mobility I I do [TS]

  really like the scene that comes up here [TS]

  when they're riding back to the Batcave [TS]

  in the Batmobile and kim basinger starts [TS]

  to look at him and his space and all [TS]

  that he turns on the light [TS]

  yes and it shines in her face so she [TS]

  can't see and she kind of raises her [TS]

  hand and that and the the score comes up [TS]

  and they blast through this you know [TS]

  through the the down that country road [TS]

  and into the hidden entryway to the [TS]

  Batcave i love that whole thing that's [TS]

  like super mystery Batman he's not going [TS]

  to let you look at his head his mouth [TS]

  and chin to figure out who is there's a [TS]

  light he's got to stop people from doing [TS]

  that if they if he takes a passenger on [TS]

  in the Batcave he keeps turning his head [TS]

  to keep himself shadow tushy gaseum yeah [TS]

  it's a superhero actually worried about [TS]

  whether or not people can see his face [TS]

  yes as opposed to the the as opposed to [TS]

  Batman Returns which we'll get to in a [TS]

  minute or any of your movie spider-man [TS]

  these days it could be that mask in [TS]

  media and the drop of a hat [TS]

  yeah hot [TS]

  it is so I romantic comedy starts [TS]

  suddenly there's a there's a whole plot [TS]

  where Bruce is trying to tell her that I [TS]

  that he's Batman he's gonna admit it [TS]

  he's gonna let let let that loose [TS]

  except he can't do it and and uh she [TS]

  says he's a jerk and then and then it [TS]

  says so shut up and he pushes her down [TS]

  which I'm like yeah that's not actually [TS]

  that cool but ok it's the eighties it's [TS]

  a romantic comedy alright and then he's [TS]

  he struggles to get things out and she [TS]

  thinks he's married but he's trying to [TS]

  admit and in fact would probably have [TS]

  said on that man at some point if the [TS]

  Joker doesn't knock on the door and then [TS]

  our romantic comedy becomes a sort of [TS]

  weird romantic comedy crime tension [TS]

  thing [TS]

  NAA source i will cite later says that [TS]

  this was kind of any impactors improv [TS]

  moment in the movie and it just doesn't [TS]

  fit by this point Robert will have been [TS]

  off the screen for a good 30 40 minutes [TS]

  and he's not coming [TS]

  yeah he's not it was a very good 32 [TS]

  different hits just a different movie in [TS]

  this in this part there's that I mean [TS]

  there's some nice bits in here uh the [TS]

  the Bruce Wayne when he comes in he says [TS]

  he comments on our honor apart right [TS]

  nice apartment right Monty nice place [TS]

  lots of space and then so when the Joker [TS]

  comes in he says nice place lots of [TS]

  space and like they say the same things [TS]

  that was that was kinda funny but you [TS]

  know Bruce Wayne provokes the Joker come [TS]

  on let's get nuts [TS]

  I don't really understand why he does [TS]

  that [TS]

  it seems weird is the plan is for him to [TS]

  be shot [TS]

  we're right where he has the little [TS]

  metal tray so that he doesn't die [TS]

  I don't know it is a little coincidental [TS]

  yeah I I don't understand why this scene [TS]

  is the way it is because because if [TS]

  anyone if the Joker is going to shoot [TS]

  anyone anywhere [TS]

  why would he aim for the heart he would [TS]

  do like various parts of the body i want [TS]

  you twitch and you know yet he would [TS]

  name you and make you hurt until you're [TS]

  coming man [TS]

  it's Chinatown it's trying to town shake [TS]

  at my only explanation and it's not a [TS]

  good one [TS]

  is the idea that that Bruce Wayne is [TS]

  trying to be chivalrous and by time to [TS]

  figure this out [TS]

  yeah and if you keep intention on [TS]

  himself and not Vicki less likely that [TS]

  she's going to get her that but like I [TS]

  said that still weak as water and it's a [TS]

  really strange scene and it's because [TS]

  they need the Joker to shoot Bruce there [TS]

  so that he can say the dance with the [TS]

  devil line [TS]

  yeah which he always knows when he kills [TS]

  people accept all those other times when [TS]

  he doesn't say we kill people have a [TS]

  right to killed several people by this [TS]

  one saat yeah also that one time he said [TS]

  it and pointed the gun to get in and [TS]

  didn't didn't do it so you know yet but [TS]

  he always telling you always done if you [TS]

  missed it was being prepared [TS]

  ok so he's not the most consistent guys [TS]

  now I'm just I'm just grumbling about [TS]

  that plot point so when he says that [TS]

  though Michael Keaton does reaction that [TS]

  is kind of a cool moment [TS]

  speaking of the Joker's a brilliant [TS]

  plans let's talk about his latest [TS]

  brilliant plan which is he's gonna have [TS]

  a parade where he's going to drop 20 [TS]

  million in cash on the crowd for the [TS]

  party [TS]

  that's the a4 everything party or [TS]

  whatever and uh it's uh it's weird [TS]

  because very long [TS]

  yeah yeah because first off first of its [TS]

  kind of unclear about what's going on [TS]

  and and the beginning again i'm going to [TS]

  point out at the beginning of that scene [TS]

  when the parade get started there's like [TS]

  seven people there for the citywide raid [TS]

  with 20 million catch seven people [TS]

  no cops the same intersection that we've [TS]

  seen several times before and a very [TS]

  small like two lane street [TS]

  yeah these huge budgets were not spend [TS]

  on extras now I which is technically got [TS]

  it all yeah i mean when we jump ahead to [TS]

  Batman Returns there's not that many [TS]

  people at that tree lighting so well you [TS]

  know what every year so not watch it at [TS]

  home from on television television yeah [TS]

  there's more prints in the in the parade [TS]

  those who get we get a little bit like [TS]

  that and i actually was reminded in the [TS]

  first sam raimi spider-man movie they [TS]

  have the hooray for everything festival [TS]

  where the green goblin attacks people [TS]

  and there's balloons and stuff and this [TS]

  is it's very much the same scene as this [TS]

  except of course that actually is like [TS]

  in Times Square and has lots of people [TS]

  you know computer-generated people but [TS]

  lots of people and i was i was reminded [TS]

  of that while watching this [TS]

  this is the the low budget version where [TS]

  they have one block and you know 20 [TS]

  extra I wondered how much they spent on [TS]

  the sequence where Batman is angry and [TS]

  he drives his car to the chemical plant [TS]

  blows everything up because i thought [TS]

  yeah that seems expensive and didn't [TS]

  have much [TS]

  yeah just rolls rolls the Batmobile and [TS]

  drop some bombs blows up access [TS]

  chemicals and and drives off like yay [TS]

  take that chemical plants the movie did [TS]

  not have enough explosions so think it's [TS]

  a good thing nobody was in there [TS]

  yep so robert wall makes this triumphant [TS]

  reappearance here Monty you're going to [TS]

  roberts he's totally doing what of [TS]

  reporter at an event would do which is [TS]

  he tells the photographer take pictures [TS]

  that expect funny good good tip take for [TS]

  pictures and then he writes a headline [TS]

  out loud as he's taking pictures [TS]

  Gotham's greed this is not how [TS]

  journalism works this is not water [TS]

  reporter does but at least robert [TS]

  wallace back he knows the idea of [TS]

  journalism there's been quite a little [TS]

  earlier where he yells copy and times [TS]

  completely unprepared for the kid right [TS]

  next to say yes sir [TS]

  don't have any copy for that it [TS]

  don't have any copy for that it [TS]

  if you haven't written a word liar [TS]

  anyway there's a bit there's a bad plane [TS]

  yeah Jason Jason that nice movie you got [TS]

  here I like the Batmobile but we need to [TS]

  sell to toys [TS]

  how can you help me out what if what if [TS]

  we have a bad plane that looks like the [TS]

  Batman logo and he flies in front of the [TS]

  Moon thereby creating a batman logo [TS]

  okay that sounds great however i've only [TS]

  got about eight bucks for the budget so [TS]

  you can never have that appear next to [TS]

  any actual actors because we're going to [TS]

  make maybe like have you make a model of [TS]

  it is that ok what we're going to do is [TS]

  we're going to make a bad plane model [TS]

  that's going to fly around and then [TS]

  we're going to have a thing that we put [TS]

  on like a golf cart that we dragged [TS]

  along r1 street and and and what we'll [TS]

  have is the bad plane will just get shot [TS]

  by a gun and and crash and again another [TS]

  young about apparently the original [TS]

  script called for the choker to have a [TS]

  tank to shoot the bad play down and then [TS]

  for budgetary reasons his tank is [TS]

  replaced with a gun home a gun while [TS]

  somewhere in here is the scene that is [TS]

  most tim burton e in the movie to me [TS]

  which is when the plane grabs all the [TS]

  balloons and flies away [TS]

  oh yeah those balloons I'm positive are [TS]

  based on the same sketches that led to [TS]

  nightmare before christmas know those [TS]

  blues are the same toys that are under [TS]

  trees because those more than anything [TS]

  else the movie say hi I'm Tim Burton I [TS]

  like stuff that looks like this [TS]

  yeah I do like that scene where Batman's [TS]

  got his like a little claw or whatever [TS]

  on the bad plane that can grab the [TS]

  balloons and and it leads to the the [TS]

  Joker getting very upset he took my [TS]

  balloons [TS]

  I love that he had that yeah that the [TS]

  parts that part's good a poor Bob I like [TS]

  the idea that the balloons themselves [TS]

  are full of poison gas and will be [TS]

  released on the unsuspecting public [TS]

  that's kind of fun you can think about [TS]

  that when you're watching the [TS]

  thanksgiving parade next year that's i [TS]

  mean that's like that classic Joker [TS]

  style plot right i mean i'm down yeah oh [TS]

  yeah oh yeah why is it that they get [TS]

  bigger as the gas is released [TS]

  I'm just confused about that point it's [TS]

  physics everything with distance in that [TS]

  entire sequence does not make any sense [TS]

  like the size of the balloons or [TS]

  whatever size they need to be the [TS]

  proximity of the balloons to the Joker [TS]

  is whatever they need to be it [TS]

  yeah it's don't worry about it [TS]

  everything's great that point though we [TS]

  get action hero robert wall because he [TS]

  master himself except a baseball bat [TS]

  what is he doing you're not the hero of [TS]

  this movie sir you don't know that they [TS]

  could rename it later call it knocks man [TS]

  yeah this thing is hard time cap it's [TS]

  the journalists in the bad man that'll [TS]

  be wanted to go you know he could just [TS]

  as easily be in the suit to do we really [TS]

  know this the scene ends with the climax [TS]

  where they all run up into a tower and [TS]

  fight because there's always a towering [TS]

  it all follows yeah you're right exactly [TS]

  right hand there's got to be a tower and [TS]

  here it is a giant Bell falls down an [TS]

  oxide stairs so that no one can chase [TS]

  them up except also conveniently at the [TS]

  top of the tower there's like ten Joker [TS]

  goons that doesn't make any sense [TS]

  uh-huh yeah I don't know when those guys [TS]

  came from don't worry about it [TS]

  they're there and again it's it's a [TS]

  variety of goods yeah they're judging [TS]

  goons and there's ninja goon yeah this [TS]

  is you know cartwheeling goon yeah mhm [TS]

  diversification yeah yeah you got a [TS]

  different kinds of guns and that allows [TS]

  the Joker to dance and make jokes while [TS]

  Batman has to fight various goons well [TS]

  yeah this is this is not one of my [TS]

  favorite parts of the movie sounds like [TS]

  the perfunctory we have to have a boss [TS]

  fight at the end of the movie thing [TS]

  yeah and that's what it you know knowing [TS]

  that now it kind of shows through in the [TS]

  direction [TS]

  yeah because tim burton didn't want to [TS]

  do that now for the ending that there's [TS]

  a problem you always have with batman [TS]

  vs. the Joker which is Batman is strong [TS]

  in the Joker isn't yeah so if that man [TS]

  punches Joker even once that's kind of [TS]

  the end of the game [TS]

  yeah once you get to the Joker you [TS]

  that's the one [TS]

  once you can get get to him yeah well [TS]

  and we'll see this again in batman [TS]

  returns but in the comics you know [TS]

  Joker's got this wiry insane strength [TS]

  and Batman happens did not be wearing [TS]

  armor so it's a bit of a fairer fine [TS]

  and yet we have just completely missed [TS]

  actually the the issue that of Batman [TS]

  secret origin which they're about to [TS]

  have out here on top of this bill I I so [TS]

  yeah they we get the dance with the [TS]

  devil in the pale moon [TS]

  like all that and it's revealed that [TS]

  like i said earlier that the Joker uh we [TS]

  went jet when he was young jack napier [TS]

  he was the one who shot Bruce Wayne's [TS]

  parents and there's that moment of like [TS]

  you you know you created me and you [TS]

  created me uh and even the Joker the [TS]

  Joker makes fun of that immediately [TS]

  oh sure you got to say that I say you [TS]

  are you crazy you got to say I created [TS]

  you like he doesn't even listen to him [TS]

  so how do people feel about this in the [TS]

  context of the movie i don't i don't [TS]

  like it in the context of Batman but [TS]

  maybe it works I don't mind it here it [TS]

  as a single movie find their dark [TS]

  mirrors of each other that gives him a [TS]

  little extra but that's fine i don't [TS]

  mind did the writers trying to add some [TS]

  depth in here somewhere [TS]

  well that was Burton's idea ok i like [TS]

  the idea that we get Batman's origin in [TS]

  passing and to make it yet to make it [TS]

  relevant in some way I think you could [TS]

  have probably made it relevant where he [TS]

  was killed by somebody like jack napier [TS]

  and not have it literally be him and [TS]

  still have a connection there because [TS]

  that's an awful lot of coincidence but [TS]

  it's fine and you know and that's [TS]

  sometimes that this is handled in [TS]

  different ways [TS]

  I mean I used the person who is usually [TS]

  identified its the killer is this [TS]

  character called Joe Chill and even that [TS]

  some people did not like because they [TS]

  like the idea of more that like the you [TS]

  know that we will he will never know [TS]

  right and that he and right he will go [TS]

  out every night and fight crime and [TS]

  never happened he's never going to be [TS]

  able to 100% Avengers parents because as [TS]

  some faceless hood is the person and you [TS]

  know he has to fight all crime to to [TS]

  confront that as opposed to like nope [TS]

  it's a guy he's got a name and a face [TS]

  and maybe I can get him even some days [TS]

  and they're terribly there's at least [TS]

  one story where that happens so to then [TS]

  make it even be the joker [TS]

  huh yeah not a fan yeah that's that's [TS]

  the point actually that glint and here's [TS]

  where i cite the previous source of Glen [TS]

  Weldon from pop culture happy are wrote [TS]

  a really really good book i really love [TS]

  it [TS]

  the caped crusade and his argument is [TS]

  that by doing this by making the Joker [TS]

  the guy who killed Batman's parents [TS]

  you've turned this from a hero story [TS]

  into a revenge entry fee and and [TS]

  as far as Batman goes I don't like it [TS]

  but as far as a self-contained movie [TS]

  where spoiler alert the Joker dies at [TS]

  the end [TS]

  yeah it kind of makes sense to sort of [TS]

  wrap it all up in the one store [TS]

  ok I'll by-the-sea see my my headcanon [TS]

  is that was that mean it probably still [TS]

  is that it's not really the Joker or [TS]

  jack napier or whoever you want to call [TS]

  them at that point it's that that's what [TS]

  Batman is imagining now and that every [TS]

  night he goes out he sees someone [TS]

  different doing it and that's part of [TS]

  his part of his little quirk about that [TS]

  is psychosis about that so you know to [TS]

  me it doesn't have to be the Joker in [TS]

  this but it makes sense that he would [TS]

  picture him this time so that I think [TS]

  this is basically the end of the movie [TS]

  they they they fight they go for one [TS]

  last press conference [TS]

  yes that's right there's a cliffhanger [TS]

  and then they reverse and then the Joker [TS]

  drops and dies and and there's a press [TS]

  conference and Commissioner Gordon [TS]

  explains that they've been given a bat [TS]

  signal and we pan of intensity CA [TS]

  vigilantes and AH gave us the signal we [TS]

  needed one because we didn't have any [TS]

  spotlights so nobody turn it on though [TS]

  because that is going to rich [TS]

  yeah you could be and that's that's a [TS]

  that's Batman I i was i saw this movie a [TS]

  lot in the I guess early nineties and I [TS]

  was a little worried to revisit it [TS]

  because i haven't revisited in quite a [TS]

  while and you know I i enjoyed watching [TS]

  it it's got lots of issues but I i like [TS]

  the the the way it looks and I like [TS]

  Michael Keaton and I like Jack [TS]

  Nicholson's totally wild performance and [TS]

  I you know I I i enjoyed watching it [TS]

  even though it's definitely of you know [TS]

  of its time [TS]

  what did everybody else think about this [TS]

  one I continue to enjoy it [TS]

  yeah not only as much as I did the first [TS]

  time I saw it we've had a lot more [TS]

  superhero movie since then right i mean [TS]

  that's part [TS]

  that is is that this was the novelty of [TS]

  a movie like a big-budget movie with [TS]

  real actors about Batman it was kind of [TS]

  a big I mean not just the marketing part [TS]

  was a big deal to have this much talent [TS]

  make and money assembled to make a [TS]

  superhero movie and now of course we get [TS]

  to eight or ten days a year but [TS]

  comparing it to modern superhero movies [TS]

  everyone now wants everybody to make [TS]

  sense they try like especially DC movies [TS]

  we try to have motivations for all the [TS]

  characters but a madman like tim burton [TS]

  is willing to say all right jack [TS]

  nicholson remember Cesar Romero double [TS]

  it go [TS]

  yeah that's when my brother made me [TS]

  watch batman begins and we're talking [TS]

  about you haven't seen Batman Begins yet [TS]

  oh my god you have to see Batman Begins [TS]

  i'm watching batman begins and I've got [TS]

  this movie competing with it in the back [TS]

  of my head and I wound up at all [TS]

  I almost I want up disliking batman [TS]

  begins because it was too much of an [TS]

  effort to make Batman realistic and yes [TS]

  and when you when you when you get to [TS]

  the point where Bruce Wayne puts on bat [TS]

  ears [TS]

  it's got to be a whole lot weirder [TS]

  otherwise i'm sitting here going why is [TS]

  he putting on bad ears if i love this i [TS]

  love the 1989 batman because it is just [TS]

  weird enough to make me forgive a whole [TS]

  lot of stuff that doesn't make sense i [TS]

  think mostly holds up as you said you [TS]

  know taking into account that yes it [TS]

  this is tim burton and and tim burton [TS]

  has a unique vision but um it holds up [TS]

  for be overall i have quibbles aplenty [TS]

  here and there but i can still sit down [TS]

  and watch it again and enjoy most of it [TS]

  again [TS]

  yeah I enjoyed as a fusion of a little [TS]

  bit of the Adam West style a little bit [TS]

  of Gary Miller a little bit of Danny [TS]

  O'Neil you know a little bit of neal [TS]

  adams i love that it [TS]

  spawned it sort of gave us the animated [TS]

  series which is my favorite Batman of [TS]

  all and and for me I mean Batman Begins [TS]

  i really liked it when I saw it in the [TS]

  theater and then you know I i didn't [TS]

  watch it for a while and then the Dark [TS]

  Knight came out I well I should rewatch [TS]

  batman begins and I didn't like it as [TS]

  much and i still have not gotten all the [TS]

  way through dark knight rises because it [TS]

  is just so oppressively wrong and you [TS]

  know and so in retrospect I like the [TS]

  Nolan movies less and less as they went [TS]

  on and I still really enjoy this [TS]

  I don't need the plot to make total [TS]

  sense I just think that's good [TS]

  well i'm watching yeah that's not going [TS]

  to mean it's more like comic book [TS]

  actually it is that it is very [TS]

  straightforward in a way that so many of [TS]

  these movies that have multiple villains [TS]

  aren't like look the Joker is bad and [TS]

  he's crazy and he wants to cause cause [TS]

  trouble for Batman and he is interested [TS]

  in Vicki Vale and making him is this [TS]

  next art project and he wants to kill [TS]

  people in Gotham City like I mean that [TS]

  he doesn't have a grand said [TS]

  imaginations that are going to lead to [TS]

  an outcome hehe is just a comic book [TS]

  villain who's trying to do bad stuff and [TS]

  Batman stops him that's I you know it's [TS]

  refreshing in that way that that's kind [TS]

  of all there is to this movie it's dead [TS]

  that's it it's like there's Batman [TS]

  there's the Joker they interact and did [TS]

  the Joker plunges off of a building in [TS]

  his dead and that's it [TS]

  Tony your verdict on Batman I it's fine [TS]

  it's mine [TS]

  the people who made this should not be [TS]

  hunted down and killed for sport [TS]

  oh no this this is for its future it's [TS]

  so many bad memories current anyone I i [TS]

  like the version of The Joker I I think [TS]

  I'm less impressed with this version of [TS]

  Batman than than the rest of you to me [TS]

  he's a little blah the action sequences [TS]

  have not aged particularly well but [TS]

  maybe they were more exciting at the [TS]

  time [TS]

  no I do like weirdo Bruce Wayne I had [TS]

  not remember that and that was that was [TS]

  kind of a treat to discover that but I'd [TS]

  I feel like I mean and this is this is [TS]

  not necessarily a problem with this [TS]

  movie so much as a lot of Batman and [TS]

  general is sometimes Batman is not very [TS]

  exciting and it's his villains that are [TS]

  the interesting fun and I get the sense [TS]

  that maybe tim burton does not care that [TS]

  much about Batman and that this movie is [TS]

  kind of only a lot more about the Joker [TS]

  and this whole will talk about Batman [TS]

  Returns shortly but Batman it can be [TS]

  boring and I think he's especially [TS]

  boring when he's just kinda by himself [TS]

  and that's why I think a lot of stories [TS]

  he gets paired with other people and [TS]

  that that's gonna be fun whether that's [TS]

  Robin or Commissioner Gordon and we get [TS]

  a little bit of that here with with [TS]

  vicki vale but not a lot and so Batman I [TS]

  in this particular film comes across as [TS]

  kind of boring a lot and I think that's [TS]

  a little unfortunate when Commissioner [TS]

  Gordon is a nonentity in this to which [TS]

  is too bad [TS]

  yeah i mean he's there but I want to [TS]

  springboard off something Tony said [TS]

  because dangerous coming out of this [TS]

  movie [TS]

  absolutely everyone talked about how [TS]

  much fun jack nicholson was and nobody [TS]

  talked about Michael Keaton and everyone [TS]

  said oh I get it [TS]

  the villains are the interesting part of [TS]

  the villains add the color and the [TS]

  excitement to the story and I think that [TS]

  led directly to what happens in batman [TS]

  returns [TS]

  mmm yeah I think you're right yeah yeah [TS]

  I mean Keaton is easily my favorite [TS]

  thing in the movie and like I said he's [TS]

  still my favorite movie Batman so Batman [TS]

  Returns then happened and i'm pretty [TS]

  sure i'm going to tell you how i feel [TS]

  about batman returns so that was that [TS]

  was nineteen ninety two three years [TS]

  later [TS]

  so I've got a theory about batman [TS]

  returns I will I will give you my full [TS]

  disclosure upfront i saw batman returns [TS]

  in the theater in 1992 and I hated it [TS]

  and i have not seen it since and i [TS]

  watched it for this podcast and let me [TS]

  tell ya [TS]

  ah twenty-one-year-old me has excellent [TS]

  taste in detecting haha because batman [TS]

  returns is a piece of crap and i will i [TS]

  will argue with those who think [TS]

  otherwise but here's here's my theory [TS]

  because i think it's i think it's [TS]

  garbage i think it is I think it is so [TS]

  terrible and and seeing it again [TS]

  yeah it's so terrible but here's the [TS]

  here's the reason why one tim burton i'm [TS]

  not a tim burton fan [TS]

  Batman is a movie that is compromised by [TS]

  all of the studio oversight the producer [TS]

  oversight the marketing message all of [TS]

  that Tim Burton has said he doesn't like [TS]

  Batman the movie he doesn't like it he's [TS]

  not he thinks it's boring [TS]

  I think Batman is not a movie the timber [TS]

  and really wanted to make or like to [TS]

  make and he didn't get to make the movie [TS]

  he wanted and investment returns after [TS]

  Batman with such a financial success [TS]

  they let tim burton make whatever he [TS]

  wanted and the result is a terrible [TS]

  movie because the only reason Batman is [TS]

  watchable is because they didn't let tim [TS]

  burton be Tim Burton because tim burton [TS]

  being tim burton is the recipe for a bad [TS]

  movie not a bad movie but not a good [TS]

  comic book movie i chatted with Glenn [TS]

  weldon at a book release party and i [TS]

  told him that i was a guy i really loved [TS]

  the book although I thought he was too [TS]

  unkind to the tim burton movies and he [TS]

  said that is an opinion that some people [TS]

  have and so but after the first is so I [TS]

  was thinking about batman returns as I [TS]

  remembered it [TS]

  I watched it for the first time just [TS]

  before we started recording and I Oh [TS]

  Glenn weldon an apology [TS]

  so as you know this movie is not good [TS]

  my problem is i wanted i want to defend [TS]

  tim burton I don't want to defend this [TS]

  movie which is garbage [TS]

  well I'll put it out put it this way [TS]

  Monty I can see how reasonable people [TS]

  would like some of Tim Burton's movies I [TS]

  don't they don't work for me and I [TS]

  either i think we're talking in our [TS]

  slack earlier about how i feel about tim [TS]

  burton movies like how some people feel [TS]

  about wes anderson movies which is they [TS]

  feel all exactly the same to me [TS]

  whatever the sensibility is that he's [TS]

  trying to get across it obviously really [TS]

  works for him and people who like his [TS]

  movies and it doesn't work for me like I [TS]

  just it's all just noise to me I i find [TS]

  it all unpleasant in with some [TS]

  exceptions like dead wood made pee-wee's [TS]

  big adventure is a good example right [TS]

  but a lot of the movies he makes I don't [TS]

  really love that man returns though I [TS]

  feel like is is everything I don't like [TS]

  about a Tim Burton movie like multiplied [TS]

  and it concentrated well let me put it [TS]

  this way i am tuned into tim burton to [TS]

  the point where I kind of enjoyed the [TS]

  Dark Shadows movie it was not as [TS]

  annoying as I thought it was going to be [TS]

  Batman Returns I can't stand [TS]

  I think there's it i don't think he gets [TS]

  any of the quirkiness and it's just the [TS]

  surface level stuff [TS]

  oh no it's all I've got it's too much [TS]

  pork if I want to list a couple more my [TS]

  theories here which is which is I do [TS]

  think that this is one of those movies [TS]

  that really lets us down the path of hey [TS]

  what if we had more villains in [TS]

  superhero movies it's a terrible idea i [TS]

  don't know if it's ever been done well [TS]

  where they've added like multiple [TS]

  supervillains in a superhero movie and [TS]

  had it work out to improve the movie and [TS]

  I don't think it does it here either so [TS]

  I think that's part of the problem and I [TS]

  think fundamentally and this came up [TS]

  earlier Tim Burton totally doesn't think [TS]

  Batman is interesting and for the [TS]

  largest part of Batman Returns Batman is [TS]

  not even around it is really the story [TS]

  of the penguin and catwoman and Batman [TS]

  is like the doofus who shows up and hugs [TS]

  them sometimes I'll got that was one of [TS]

  the things that drove me nuts this time [TS]

  I remember watching this I don't think I [TS]

  saw it in the theater but i think i saw [TS]

  it on a cable channel or on a on VHS [TS]

  afterwards at some point and it [TS]

  irritated me at the time thinking like [TS]

  you know they really could have done [TS]

  better a better job with Catwoman [TS]

  this was before I really knew Selina [TS]

  Kyle's Catwoman's origins in in the [TS]

  comics I hadn't seen the animated series [TS]

  yet and this origin story [TS]

  neither of these origin stories make any [TS]

  he says it's she falls all falls out of [TS]

  a window and and fall to her death [TS]

  except she's hit a few awnings on the [TS]

  way down but then cats swarm her and [TS]

  Jason she stays on you I to explain to [TS]

  you how magic works i I'm just saying I [TS]

  wasn't aware that that that is looking [TS]

  after strange movie that woman is like a [TS]

  Cat spirit totem person or something but [TS]

  that's what this movie once but also [TS]

  that penguins raised a baby [TS]

  yeah well there to be fair to be fair I [TS]

  think there's the implication that he [TS]

  was also raised by the circus and just [TS]

  wasn't mentioned all right okay for [TS]

  being our reason that Maxie there who [TS]

  will speak for the circus i will speak [TS]

  specifically its ok awning had a picture [TS]

  of it out on it i did and they were just [TS]

  talking about the heads before she felt [TS]

  she got possessed by an awning spirit is [TS]

  that what you're telling me she know [TS]

  that would have been on any woman but [TS]

  what happens if if you say I'm not a cat [TS]

  and then you fall through an awning with [TS]

  a picture of a cat and then cats come [TS]

  around you you are forced to start [TS]

  talking all sorts of cat medical person [TS]

  for the whole one point try to wash [TS]

  yourself by licking your hand what the [TS]

  animal animal theme right i mean that's [TS]

  it is penguin and catwoman so we're [TS]

  going to have lots of animals and and at [TS]

  one point there's like I'm not a human [TS]

  being I'm an animal is something that so [TS]

  Danny DeVito is the penguin and machine [TS]

  uh-oh who is it [TS]

  now i'm going to show you shall find her [TS]

  she'll fight for his cat lineart is [TS]

  selina kyle Christopher Walken is Max [TS]

  Schreck named after the star of nice [TS]

  verado he dresses like Scrooge in A [TS]

  Christmas Carol which is just how about [TS]

  that makeup i like when they introduce [TS]

  him he said he's in a meeting [TS]

  so you know he's probably not so great [TS]

  and he's wearing gloves inside so you [TS]

  know he's really evil [TS]

  yeah he's also very clearly modeled [TS]

  after Donald Trump I'm not kidding he's [TS]

  very clearly modeled on absolutely [TS]

  practically his last line is you're [TS]

  fired [TS]

  this movie was actually a little [TS]

  uncomfortable to watch after the [TS]

  election now tell you living in the new [TS]

  york area at the time that with [TS]

  everybody was like wow he's like goth [TS]

  Donald Trump whoa [TS]

  he was the only good thing in the movie [TS]

  well i was gonna say the for me the only [TS]

  three good things in the movie [TS]

  christopher walken yes the fact that [TS]

  Michael Keaton finally gets top billing [TS]

  an event info k you know yeah but he had [TS]

  a fourth most lines pay now and in the [TS]

  fact that the words to the music in this [TS]

  were really easy to memorize I like the [TS]

  I like the part where all the Penguins [TS]

  are come on the march i watch that twice [TS]

  that was my hair part not be entirely [TS]

  fire some some rockets [TS]

  yeah rocket which the Penguins have the [TS]

  Penguins have targeting radicals [TS]

  dropping over their eyes they have [TS]

  targeting monocles y to the Penguins [TS]

  have remote control [TS]

  sorry possibly carry his corpse to the [TS]

  water at the end [TS]

  yes they did make sure you did there's a [TS]

  very nice sort of penguin ceremony they [TS]

  have level [TS]

  tating Majesty is this your first [TS]

  penguin funeral yep there's yeah but [TS]

  it's this this movie so so yeah the lab [TS]

  since of Batman he just disappears for [TS]

  for a large portion of the movie the [TS]

  penguin stuff I found not interesting [TS]

  Christopher Walken is he is the best [TS]

  thing in the movie i like i like him [TS]

  it's a bizarre performance but i really [TS]

  enjoy it well it's one yeah yeah and I [TS]

  think that's probably a problem that the [TS]

  the that's orthogonal to the whole mood [TS]

  right notion of Batman [TS]

  yeah I want to follow him and see what [TS]

  he's up we'll match trek to next and the [TS]

  answer is he gets killed by the cat by [TS]

  Catwoman at the end by I feel like that [TS]

  yeah I thought about that he's like the [TS]

  Robert will love this movie [TS]

  if that's the s I've never heard driver [TS]

  will always Christopher Walken compared [TS]

  but there it is [TS]

  yeah we want water for walk-ins are huh [TS]

  I just just gonna say that generate that [TS]

  just for teaching you do not want to [TS]

  mess with that drives me nuts of the the [TS]

  the way they had some of for me one of [TS]

  the strengths in the movie was post [TS]

  transformation Catwoman Pfeiffer you [TS]

  know then that and it was really [TS]

  entertaining that they even had to [TS]

  transform her in the first place I mean [TS]

  Selina Kyle in the comics is it a rich [TS]

  lady who decides to you know start [TS]

  stealing jewelry or whatever but no [TS]

  they're going to have to transform [TS]

  Michelle Pfeiffer tried to make her a [TS]

  frump so that they can turn everything [TS]

  very old glamour Woman out towards your [TS]

  glasses corndog yes I and there were so [TS]

  many good points [TS]

  hidden inside the Catwoman story the the [TS]

  idea of her trying to become her own [TS]

  vigilante because at first she's you [TS]

  know she your first thing she does is [TS]

  rescue a woman although she's very upset [TS]

  that the woman let herself get caught in [TS]

  the first place and then she turns to [TS]

  destruction of going after Schrag it [TS]

  then it turns into this weird unresolved [TS]

  sexual tension between her and between [TS]

  Catwoman Batman that just comes out of [TS]

  nowhere and makes no sense their moves [TS]

  are so totally weird so weird [TS]

  it emphasizes the other thing I [TS]

  hate about this movie which is how dumb [TS]

  Batman is for the first two-thirds of [TS]

  the movie [TS]

  yeah he's the world when he shows up [TS]

  he's done the world's greatest detective [TS]

  your detective skills i wrote down at [TS]

  one point the world's greatest detective [TS]

  with a bunch of question marks and then [TS]

  like three lines down in my notes it [TS]

  says oh now the world's greatest [TS]

  detective is punching clowns that is [TS]

  what that many other members interests I [TS]

  will I will I will also check in with [TS]

  with my wiser friends here about what it [TS]

  was like when this movie came out I was [TS]

  still a child and I recall it being [TS]

  weird that this movie I was still like a [TS]

  vehicle for shuffling action figures [TS]

  that kids even though it was so much [TS]

  more violent and had like the sexual [TS]

  themes to it that the video even amalia [TS]

  think people if it's that I don't you [TS]

  want to do with that felt weird uh i [TS]

  mean i remember seeing like like kids [TS]

  dressed up as catwoman for halloween [TS]

  like young children and be like this [TS]

  analysis weird yeah this is not run [TS]

  harley quinn me this this year lots of [TS]

  people went to see it lots of people i [TS]

  mean probably went back for second [TS]

  feelings but when you've got Paul Bearer [TS]

  penguins you don't know what to do with [TS]

  Paul Bearer people i'm ok with that part [TS]

  yeah no one knew what to do I have [TS]

  benefit memories i don't know why i [TS]

  remember this of Joan Rivers when she [TS]

  had her TV show and she has this gossip [TS]

  columnist or press you know somebody who [TS]

  was on the celebrity circuit talking [TS]

  about like one of the one of the [TS]

  pre-release parties or something for for [TS]

  the movie and she showing Joan Rivers [TS]

  this paperweight that's designed so that [TS]

  was one of the big things was it was [TS]

  Christmastime it was snow snow [TS]

  everywhere so there was this glass [TS]

  paperweight with the Batman logo inside [TS]

  it and if you tilted at the snow would [TS]

  move across it and here's Joan Rivers [TS]

  plain-looking with this thing playing [TS]

  with it going what the hell is this [TS]

  that that that felt like the general [TS]

  reaction after once the movie was out [TS]

  it's like what the hell is this the [TS]

  buzzwords were there [TS]

  penguin Catwoman Batman's back and while [TS]

  that man back really well they didn't [TS]

  bother with anything so yeah was [TS]

  worthwhile i mean i remember at the time [TS]

  thinking you know remembering back three [TS]

  years to all the marketing push and [TS]

  everybody saw the logo and everything [TS]

  was bright and bold and fun and you know [TS]

  just the logo itself was you know black [TS]

  and gold and just just jumped out at you [TS]

  and this did not have any of that it [TS]

  didn't have a song you know again [TS]

  whatever we think of the songs and all [TS]

  it didn't have a song playing every hour [TS]

  on mtv it didn't have anything bouncy [TS]

  and fun to it [TS]

  the only thing you ever saw was dark and [TS]

  snow and ice and and their three phases [TS]

  and they looked so c is also it it's an [TS]

  xmas movie it's set at Christmastime and [TS]

  it was released in june so perfect [TS]

  timing that one of the one of the pieces [TS]

  that was taken out of the first batman [TS]

  movie was or heavily reduced was the [TS]

  notion of the Batman and Joker being [TS]

  parts different sides of the same coin [TS]

  there's a head newspaper headline in an [TS]

  early script that was taken out where [TS]

  the headline is war of the freaks and [TS]

  they seemed to rediscover that idea for [TS]

  this movie because they put so much [TS]

  effort into turning pink winning [TS]

  Catwoman into freaks and also playing [TS]

  with the idea of Batman as they feel [TS]

  weak and tim burton seems to be so [TS]

  fascinated with that he forgets to make [TS]

  a superhero movie or just have Batman [TS]

  he's not interested in Batman he Tim [TS]

  Burton very clearly as bored by Batman [TS]

  and so this is a movie about the about [TS]

  Catwoman and penguin really and there's [TS]

  a little bit of satire about him running [TS]

  for for mayor and there's the L and [TS]

  there's max Shreck trying to manipulate [TS]

  things and all of that but but that man [TS]

  doesn't get a lot of time Bruce Wayne [TS]

  gets a little time sort of like in his [TS]

  again there's this other thread which is [TS]

  his attraction to Selina Kyle and [TS]

  Batman's attraction to Catwoman and [TS]

  that's that feels like something out of [TS]

  the comics a little bit and when we get [TS]

  to the very love that yeah yeah I I'll i [TS]

  think that's I think that's one of my [TS]

  grandma definitely strong parts that [TS]

  yeah let these two really good actors [TS]

  give them this really tangled issue let [TS]

  them go [TS]

  Michelle Pfeiffer after she after she [TS]

  gets dumped out of the window and when [TS]

  she's not in the cat suit is fascinating [TS]

  yeah except in that scene where she's [TS]

  sewing that the scene where she comes [TS]

  back to her apartment and just yeah that [TS]

  is and then shows her thing i hate that [TS]

  seen a library then she pulls it [TS]

  together [TS]

  yeah that the reason I don't think this [TS]

  was all tim burton's idea is he would [TS]

  rather have the freaks be the heroes [TS]

  instead of the villains sure like he [TS]

  would rather do Edward Scissorhands then [TS]

  have the guy who's yeah shunned by [TS]

  society be actually ugly and horrible [TS]

  like Danny DeVito I mean Danny DeVito's [TS]

  Eric he's making to go with like well [TS]

  what can I do with the Batman movie to [TS]

  give it to get what I want it's like to [TS]

  have these two have these characters [TS]

  like this i'm a little surprised that [TS]

  Catwoman ends up ends up killing max at [TS]

  the end because it seems kind of [TS]

  unnecessary she they they kiss over a [TS]

  Taser to it's really stupid [TS]

  oh yeah now he did kill her first true [TS]

  but I think I feel like that would be an [TS]

  interesting moment of like I issue [TS]

  batteries she good [TS]

  like maybe maybe maybe she's more [TS]

  complicated than that because that [TS]

  character is kind of like that she's a [TS]

  little bit of both and then the penguin [TS]

  this is more irredeemable but you know [TS]

  that's again you know that they're in [TS]

  the end it is about them just sort of [TS]

  like having a moment on the stage and [TS]

  then sort of a perfunctory I guess [TS]

  Batman needs to clean this up at the end [TS]

  because it's that kind of movie [TS]

  yeah I do like that little clever bit at [TS]

  the beginning of the movie before she [TS]

  takes her tumble when she's who wins [TS]

  Lena car was mugged and she's so mousing [TS]

  all this other stuff and Batman saves [TS]

  her and the Taser still lying there and [TS]

  then she just get this glint in the eye [TS]

  and she teases the unconscious thug and [TS]

  that I do like that little bit because [TS]

  that's that sort of suggest you that [TS]

  yeah she is kind of broken inside and [TS]

  got a lot of repressed anger and stuff [TS]

  like that [TS]

  well i think that the the Catwoman [TS]

  thread for me that the Salina call [TS]

  Catwoman thing for me feels like the [TS]

  weather it's the script or whether it's [TS]

  Burton I don't know but it feels like [TS]

  this [TS]

  first week shaky step towards women [TS]

  having agency because you know she's one [TS]

  of the reasons I think she's she's going [TS]

  to kill Shrek at the end is because you [TS]

  know this is a step she can take to [TS]

  finally get her for revenge on him that [TS]

  one line just killed me [TS]

  um i would love to you know go live in [TS]

  your castle and be your fairy princess i [TS]

  would love that but i would hate myself [TS]

  you know because she sees even that you [TS]

  know is is giving in a way there's [TS]

  there's a really good idea buried in [TS]

  there that we only get glimpses I my [TS]

  note says despite the dick jokes that [TS]

  happened in this uh i think in providing [TS]

  the brew Selena relationship is the best [TS]

  thing in the movie like other the other [TS]

  than other than yeah walkin doing [TS]

  walking because that's weird and quirky [TS]

  and it's like she's got a secret [TS]

  identity he's got a secret identity [TS]

  they're both really messed up they meet [TS]

  when she walks into the office where [TS]

  were walking is convinced that he he [TS]

  killed her the night before and she just [TS]

  walks in and he's like what's going on [TS]

  and then that's also when Bruce Wayne is [TS]

  there and they meet and so that's kind [TS]

  of electric it all that is is pretty [TS]

  cool because that's that's a weird I [TS]

  mean I mean there's your Tim Burton [TS]

  movie right it's like that freak Cesare [TS]

  the heroes like Bruce and selina are [TS]

  kind of freaks but they're also kind of [TS]

  the leads and the heroes here and and it [TS]

  that stuff kind of works and some of the [TS]

  Batman Catwoman stuff works too but [TS]

  that's you know again that then then a [TS]

  monkey delivers a note of regret from [TS]

  Batman removal i remember going into all [TS]

  the press the only press I remember [TS]

  about Batman Returns was talking about [TS]

  Sean Young trying to become yeah right [TS]

  oh they were worried about her like [TS]

  sneaking onto the set at in the car in a [TS]

  costume she made herself and sneaking [TS]

  into Tim Burton's office she was [TS]

  supposed to be the original Vicki Vale [TS]

  and she got hurt and they had to recast [TS]

  basing her so again apparently she [TS]

  really really wanted to be in a movie [TS]

  made me uncomfortable at the time [TS]

  because they were really casting her as [TS]

  crazy Shaw [TS]

  Young who was so desperate for working [TS]

  show up on talk shows and beg for it [TS]

  yeah haha this movie has some [TS]

  interesting things to try to say about [TS]

  misogyny and yet it does it is almost [TS]

  performs the misogyny more than it [TS]

  comments on it man explains it or Batman [TS]

  explains it [TS]

  penguin is awful Max Schreck is awful [TS]

  and Catwoman is sort of this perfect [TS]

  victim kind of character and it's almost [TS]

  like they it's up there with bits of [TS]

  this in the first batman movie with Jack [TS]

  Nicholson's character you know I didn't [TS]

  you look good jack [TS]

  I didn't ask and all this other stuff [TS]

  but they amp it up in this movie as [TS]

  though they're trying to make a point [TS]

  about it i and III don't think they [TS]

  succeed in Michael Keaton's last scene [TS]

  about goodwill toward men and women just [TS]

  doesn't google yeah i think that a last [TS]

  person to do a pass on the screenplay [TS]

  just put in a million stupid quips [TS]

  yeah like towards the last half of the [TS]

  movie it's full of things like I haven't [TS]

  been fed all day eat floor do you have [TS]

  fiber lot of dark yeah my kitty litter [TS]

  and all my notes are so my heart I say [TS]

  that the office I don't think he did the [TS]

  final pass on it but the main credited [TS]

  screenwriter had his previous film was [TS]

  Hudson Hawk which is a much better [TS]

  feeling much better film it's much [TS]

  better than this will all it's so much [TS]

  fun [TS]

  one thing i want to mention about this [TS]

  and then I I'm pretty much done with the [TS]

  things for me to say about the movie [TS]

  because I I don't like haha ok but Jason [TS]

  you haven't even done the plot outline [TS]

  yeah that's not gonna happen i fly i am [TS]

  amused by the scene where do when the [TS]

  penguin is trying to give a speech again [TS]

  another press conference in Tony you [TS]

  have your love hacked your hacked by [TS]

  Batman and Alfred using a CD desi yeah [TS]

  and that makes me laugh because they [TS]

  they turn the tables on him in the end [TS]

  he does a little bit of scratching there [TS]

  and then later in the movie [TS]

  Alfred is like a a freaker with [TS]

  frequency jamming powers who turns the [TS]

  Penguins around and like go Alfred and [TS]

  it's ridiculous an awful and and doesn't [TS]

  fit but it's also funny and the [TS]

  culmination of that Batman shows up and [TS]

  he's got his bat remote that controls [TS]

  the Penguins and the penguin gets the [TS]

  remote from him and then presses the [TS]

  button [TS]

  yeah which blows everything up and it's [TS]

  like I don't I don't [TS]

  yeah why is I think it was the things [TS]

  listed it was it's like a homing thing [TS]

  and that whoever presses the button it's [TS]

  going to blow up that thing and then and [TS]

  so Batman's just tricking the penguin [TS]

  into taking jason your season tech [TS]

  journalists is that how buttons work [TS]

  yep that's how it works [TS]

  it's a red button Tony red button that [TS]

  means things explode if you push it come [TS]

  on [TS]

  ok thankyou standards the iso standard [TS]

  for buttons i would like to briefly call [TS]

  out three things in the movie that i [TS]

  have a comment about if that's ok 1 i'd [TS]

  like the way the video says no just give [TS]

  you a splitting headache and the way [TS]

  Christopher Walken sounds kind of like [TS]

  he's apologizing when he says it's not [TS]

  working think that was a weird scene [TS]

  that I enjoyed a weird scene i did not [TS]

  enjoy is when Catwoman is skipping rope [TS]

  with her bullwhip which feels like [TS]

  somebody thought that would look cool [TS]

  and then it didn't and finally Batman [TS]

  totally straps of dynamite with henchmen [TS]

  and blow the money we don't we don't see [TS]

  that he's fine [TS]

  yeah I mean we talked about him not [TS]

  killing people he kills he's he's fine [TS]

  he's fine the best no circles artery [TS]

  Tony you're in denial here Batman of [TS]

  these two movies is a cold-blooded [TS]

  murderer straight from detective comics [TS]

  27 days you have to admit it he's bad [TS]

  just you just band-aid over that he's [TS]

  fine [TS]

  I have an important equation solution I [TS]

  have a very important question here [TS]

  please [TS]

  where the hell did the red triangle [TS]

  circus gang get the plans for the [TS]

  Batmobile yeah I'm just as a pretty big [TS]

  claw they broke into [TS]

  DMP let's say that pedia here here here [TS]

  i can head candidate its weak and [TS]

  pathetic there is the scene where they [TS]

  go to the Department of record like this [TS]

  movie yeah they go to the penguin spends [TS]

  an extended period of time in the Gotham [TS]

  Department of records which has a very [TS]

  fancy sign for a Department of records [TS]

  and probably Bruce Wayne is an [TS]

  upstanding citizen and has put the files [TS]

  for the blueprints of the Batmobile he [TS]

  entered them into the public record as [TS]

  you do when you're trying to maintain a [TS]

  secret identity [TS]

  uh-huh and my own area though yeah and [TS]

  we've done [TS]

  yeah tell me how do you think he got the [TS]

  license plate for it straightly ya think [TS]

  I felt a breeze how do people feel to me [TS]

  the worst scene in this movie is when [TS]

  the penguin goes up to his upstairs of [TS]

  his campaign headquarters and him and [TS]

  Catwoman are there and she oh god that [TS]

  is that is the work for me the worst i [TS]

  don't know if that is for you even even [TS]

  not even counting the part which um [TS]

  where she almost it's a bird [TS]

  I am 46 years old and I am still too [TS]

  young to see the penguin and catwoman on [TS]

  that bad [TS]

  I the dialogue and see what makes me [TS]

  deeply uncomfortable and again this is [TS]

  something that was used to sell action [TS]

  figures two children [TS]

  see I don't hurt likes grotesque protest [TS]

  like beautiful grotesques Tony that is [TS]

  that the scene that includes the line [TS]

  that's just the pussy I was looking for [TS]

  yes it was I thought so yeah that's not [TS]

  a good scene or is there other scene [TS]

  where he puts the moves on her and she [TS]

  refuses and he tries to make her fly [TS]

  into the sky on a honor like a parasol [TS]

  helicopter thing also not a good scene [TS]

  mmm nope nope nope i bet you there's [TS]

  some other not a good see ya there are [TS]

  you Jason Jason Jason I know your movies [TS]

  almost done and you have a Batmobile and [TS]

  I even saw you made a new version that [TS]

  it splits into pieces that's great we'll [TS]

  sell a new toy can get one more new toy [TS]

  out of this movie so we can for the kids [TS]

  and for my bank account how about a bad [TS]

  boat just put it in had the batboat yeah [TS]

  okay it's also know that the bats right [TS]

  over here [TS]

  all right I'm good ok alright that's up [TS]

  about this penguin issue to shoot a [TS]

  missile off of its back i had the action [TS]

  figure of that as a kid I did too [TS]

  well I wasn't the kid but I i had that [TS]

  it came in a pack with two penguins one [TS]

  of the Penguins is holding the [TS]

  developers out in a way that I don't [TS]

  know penguins really do the other [TS]

  penguins just standing there they're not [TS]

  really exited was just I like seeing [TS]

  that 40 seconds of paul rubens that was [TS]

  nice [TS]

  yeah yeah the beginning of a penguin [TS]

  penguin parents paul rubens is the [TS]

  Penguins dad in the in that state is [TS]

  born it's just like pee-wee's roving [TS]

  seen yeah well they're both they're both [TS]

  pee-wee's big adventure the mom and the [TS]

  dad are both in pee-wee's big yeah [TS]

  giantess a leader [TS]

  yeah sorry hoe but the site a side note [TS]

  I a pink one in the graveyard kneeling [TS]

  before his parents grave bumping into [TS]

  the wobbly styrofoam grave next-gen just [TS]

  just sell you know Danny DeVito had to [TS]

  deal with a lot of prosthetics with that [TS]

  costume I was their number-one son and [TS]

  they treated me like number two [TS]

  zing somebody gotta pull your outline [TS]

  that somebody got paid to write that [TS]

  line I don't think they should have [TS]

  brought up Vicki Vale in this no no [TS]

  pretend she didn't exist that I won't be [TS]

  sitting there going yeah what happened [TS]

  to her instead it's really sad it's like [TS]

  hey yeah remember that that we were [TS]

  starting a good relationship there no [TS]

  she couldn't take me being Batman [TS]

  no really because I thought you talk [TS]

  that through in the previous movie [TS]

  yeah that that that made me kind of mad [TS]

  but really it's low on my list of [TS]

  grievances so haha sitting down watching [TS]

  it tonight after not having seen it for [TS]

  so long and it's like right away it was [TS]

  just like everything was dialed 215 not [TS]

  just 11 but 15 Gotham City was grimmer [TS]

  know and uglier on all of the grotesque [TS]

  curries of you know whether it's the [TS]

  villains whatever it just everything was [TS]

  just pushed up into this level that had [TS]

  me cringing for most of this movie [TS]

  that's good news the next batman movie [TS]

  is much more colorful yeah yeah but [TS]

  everybody was there huh [TS]

  i I don't understand I don't understand [TS]

  why this movie [TS]

  I why I liked it so much in my memory I [TS]

  I that shall find that well well yeah [TS]

  Michael Keaton but surely but know that [TS]

  the the thing i love about the the [TS]

  original batman movie is that it is [TS]

  weird and I just assumed that Batman [TS]

  Returns was in that same vein with a [TS]

  cooler Batman suit and some other stuff [TS]

  and yeah Michelle Pfeiffer but yeah [TS]

  member this is what this is one of those [TS]

  movies that I really shouldn't have [TS]

  watched again I should have noticed but [TS]

  convince myself that I enjoyed it [TS]

  apologies to glen world yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  well you know Michael Keaton that I'm [TS]

  gonna say a Michael Keaton deserved [TS]

  better that I i really like to be still [TS]

  got ya [TS]

  uh yeah I know I I like the performance [TS]

  in Batman and actually I like what [TS]

  little we see of him as Bruce Wayne in [TS]

  Batman Returns that stuff with Michelle [TS]

  Pfeiffer's he got kicked in the head [TS]

  hard enough and looking out yeah I like [TS]

  that boardroom scene between him and [TS]

  Christopher Walken I want yeah that's [TS]

  that's excellent keep cutting to him in [TS]

  the Batcave is like mm yes language i [TS]

  see no right parents yes and then that's [TS]

  it like wait what is even here it's like [TS]

  oh yeah we should probably show him [TS]

  before they forget what they're watching [TS]

  I'm still in this movie people don't [TS]

  forget I'm Batman [TS]

  I'm hanging out with Robert will now I'm [TS]

  just glad that joel schumacher was able [TS]

  to come and restore dignity to the [TS]

  franchise pieces of mr. Whelan's book is [TS]

  that the history of that man is full of [TS]

  wild over reactions from previous [TS]

  interesting yes I'm not gonna not what I [TS]

  pick up in a future episode we are going [TS]

  to watch the tool to joel schumacher [TS]

  Batman movies and then what we will what [TS]

  do you mean we [TS]

  yeah I didn't sign up for that we and [TS]

  then then we'll have the Nolan movies [TS]

  after that but but for now i would have [TS]

  to say that we have discharged your [TS]

  duties and I am sorry [TS]

  to have made everybody watch batman [TS]

  returns because tony is this in the [TS]

  braces like banned from the treasure [TS]

  Batman or just the church Batman [TS]

  recognize the existence of Batman [TS]

  returned you know do whatever you want [TS]

  people knowing what the pattern where it [TS]

  is a bad memory around the Batman [TS]

  university curriculum Tony that's what i [TS]

  want so far the Batman university [TS]

  curriculum is mainly focused on the [TS]

  batman animated series and word that's [TS]

  what that's where that's that's the [TS]

  foundation of love and respect for [TS]

  Batman is that good right that's why it [TS]

  has such high approval ratings go Batman [TS]

  university so the 1989 Batman's kind of [TS]

  grandfathered and it's like a [TS]

  predecessor of the Batman I I mean there [TS]

  are there are elements of this that show [TS]

  up in batman the animated series like [TS]

  there is an episode called the mechanic [TS]

  about the penguin sabotaging the [TS]

  Batmobile which makes way more sense [TS]

  that the plot point and this one so they [TS]

  think they do borrow things from it but [TS]

  yeah they be the best thing about this [TS]

  movie are the things that gets stolen [TS]

  for the animated series and they leave [TS]

  eighty-five percent of the rocks behind [TS]

  so yeah stripped for parts [TS]

  yep i would rather had this movie been [TS]

  Christopher Walken as Max Schreck doing [TS]

  evil things that have to be countered by [TS]

  Bruce Wayne and Batman that would have [TS]

  been a way better movie i would rather [TS]

  this movie were Christopher walk in as [TS]

  Max Schreck in notion rocky yeah yeah [TS]

  but I would've been fine whatever [TS]

  christopher walken that's fine it's [TS]

  christopher rot walking does lots of [TS]

  weird stuff while Bruce Wayne and and [TS]

  Selena Kyle go out on a date [TS]

  now you have a great Tim Burton was just [TS]

  like really angry that he hadn't didn't [TS]

  have the idea to use the circus gang in [TS]

  the Joker movie and so is like I don't [TS]

  know they're here [TS]

  it was like white why are you guys in [TS]

  this movie itself no no [TS]

  well because Robin was originally gonna [TS]

  be okay yeah it's a mess [TS]

  I like what I like at the end when [TS]

  there's going to be the big fight and [TS]

  they all just leave and I was like it's [TS]

  like conservation of bad guys because of [TS]

  the big fight with the Joker they're all [TS]

  the bad guys that showed up from are so [TS]

  it's like it was evening out there [TS]

  there's their henchmen that didn't make [TS]

  any sense to be there [TS]

  in that movie and the henchmen that do [TS]

  make sense to be here just disappear in [TS]

  this one I'm okay with it comes and does [TS]

  nothing but get shots a bluefish a blue [TS]

  and zhu tou at the end of this one blue [TS]

  pursue mhm [TS]

  you know Edward with right after this [TS]

  movie I wonder if tim burton was [TS]

  thinking i need to remind myself that [TS]

  it's important to love movies yeah yeah [TS]

  yeah and that's that's a good movie [TS]

  I'm like that movie I I I feel for tim [TS]

  burton's is best although I complain [TS]

  about tim burton because i don't like is [TS]

  I don't really like his work but i will [TS]

  say i can't imagine that this was a [TS]

  particularly fulfilling film for him [TS]

  I'm sure was more fulfilling than the [TS]

  first Batman it feels more like stuff [TS]

  that's up his alley [TS]

  but still I'm not sure this is the kind [TS]

  of thing that is really his bag so now [TS]

  the movie before this between the Batman [TS]

  movies with edward scissorhands which is [TS]

  pure tim burton saying there you go then [TS]

  he went out to the paycheck and then you [TS]

  go and then he went made wood right so [TS]

  that's what you do not like the paycheck [TS]

  and then you go making a passion project [TS]

  instead [TS]

  Hey look on the right side you got to [TS]

  see Danny DeVito just going to town on a [TS]

  raw fish so that's an experience you can [TS]

  never unsee [TS]

  I saw the fifth season of taxi I've seen [TS]

  that i want to say although i did not [TS]

  enjoy Danny DeVito's performance I [TS]

  appreciate how hard he went for it [TS]

  I think you know what you're worried [TS]

  about getting like that at all [TS]

  good for him pilot yeah I was okay with [TS]

  it i mean i forgot that it was Danny [TS]

  DeVito a lot which which says something [TS]

  for ya me too [TS]

  yeah i'm willing to give him a lot of [TS]

  credit for that he is disgusting an [TS]

  awful and violence but he's got weird [TS]

  prosthetics and he's actually acting and [TS]

  yeah yeah and it's not just like being [TS]

  Danny DeVito he's not yeah by the guys [TS]

  knows what more do you want [TS]

  well that guy should see that how do you [TS]

  really i like how long they left it yeah [TS]

  he says they know well it could be worse [TS]

  at least my nose is gushing blood [TS]

  there's a long pause the guys like that [TS]

  was yeah what he meant by [TS]

  that I'm gonna ask him what he meant oh [TS]

  god my nose [TS]

  that's right by some toys kids is moving [TS]

  regarding the fights off another guy's [TS]

  nose buy some toys [TS]

  Oh God 1992 never come back never [TS]

  all right we're gonna wrap it up that [TS]

  the thus ends this edition of our [TS]

  check-ins with Batman that are [TS]

  affiliated it's like extension course [TS]

  for Batman university I'd like to thank [TS]

  my guests for being here and watching [TS]

  some batman movies with me Monty [TS]

  actually thank you for being here [TS]

  I'm still that pen okay chip sudderth [TS]

  i'm grateful that Halle Berry was able [TS]

  to restore dignity capital magnifying [TS]

  device David Laura I'm I'm gonna go off [TS]

  and reboot the Hudson Hawk Cinematic [TS]

  Universe right okay you can use that [TS]

  list is on the phone already Shannon [TS]

  subject thank you [TS]

  knowing that I never have to watch [TS]

  batman returns again I feel ever so much [TS]

  young year and Tony sindelar I think you [TS]

  were the king of the wicker people [TS]

  goodbye nerds and thanks everybody for [TS]

  listening to be uncomfortable I've been [TS]

  your host Jason smell but really I'm [TS]

  Batman [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]