The Incomparable

332: She`s the Han Solo

 

  the incomparable number 330 to December [TS]

  hello everyone and welcome back to the [TS]

  uncomfortable and as it's the week [TS]

  before Christmas [TS]

  that can only mean one thing yes it is [TS]

  time for another eight thousand hours of [TS]

  discussion about the latest Star Wars [TS]

  movie [TS]

  i'm your host Anthony Johnson and we are [TS]

  of course going to be discussing this [TS]

  year's so-called anthology movie road [TS]

  one a Star Wars story which from now on [TS]

  I'm just gonna call road one because [TS]

  life is too short but not too short to [TS]

  assemble a ragtag band of rebels the [TS]

  same rebels in fact to discuss the force [TS]

  awakens with me last year so once again [TS]

  please welcome from Scotland we have [TS]

  James Thompson hi there i realize we are [TS]

  lucky band of rebels with regional [TS]

  accents so hopefully we're gonna make it [TS]

  out the other side of this podcast [TS]

  oh yes yes English people always survive [TS]

  in Star Wars I'm doomed also from [TS]

  Scotland Liz miles [TS]

  yeah I'm much closer to the border does [TS]

  that mean I'm more likely or less likely [TS]

  to die here but the more likely and [TS]

  finally our honorary scottsdale Morin [TS]

  I'm not gonna do an accent but I feel [TS]

  like I have a good chance of actually [TS]

  surviving this podcast yeah you probably [TS]

  do [TS]

  and before you will ask my paternal [TS]

  family are all scots-irish so away with [TS]

  you we should mention also right up [TS]

  front that this entire episode is one [TS]

  big massive honking spoiler [TS]

  oh my goodness wow is that leaving now [TS]

  so do not listen if you haven't already [TS]

  seen the movie or you don't want to know [TS]

  what happens because the chances are [TS]

  spoiling it is well its high it's very [TS]

  high near a hundred percent pretty just [TS]

  be all die but I'm but first thing I did [TS]

  want to ask all of you guys has anyone [TS]

  have any of you had time to listen to [TS]

  the first road wanting comfortable [TS]

  episode yet I have indeed [TS]

  oh well done i haven't had time yeah I [TS]

  wanted to listen so I wasn't gonna come [TS]

  up with anything that had been debunked [TS]

  in there episode you see I'm probably [TS]

  gonna do that I decided for going rogue [TS]

  working on room Hey Ya not be holding [TS]

  myself to anything that was said or not [TS]

  said yeah I didn't look like don't want [TS]

  to I don't want to hear i went on the [TS]

  internet to look at other people's [TS]

  opinions and I like last about five [TS]

  minutes that's definitely outraged by [TS]

  the whatever [TS]

  yeah just some context for listeners we [TS]

  are recording this on Tuesday 20th so [TS]

  it's only five days after the movie [TS]

  opened here in the UK and you know I [TS]

  think less than 48 hours after the first [TS]

  episode of the incomparable talking [TS]

  about this movie came out so yes we may [TS]

  well contradict things that were said in [TS]

  that one we may repeat things that was [TS]

  said in that one without realizing it [TS]

  tough live with it or we can just make [TS]

  things up which i think is college thing [TS]

  to do [TS]

  absolutely absolutely and so okay let's [TS]

  go round before we get into sort of [TS]

  because we're gonna get into details [TS]

  obviously as we go through it but how [TS]

  about first just some general sort of [TS]

  thoughts and overview of what you know [TS]

  what do we think of this as a Star Wars [TS]

  movie did you like it do you think it [TS]

  you know fits into the the sequence of [TS]

  movies the modern style of the movies [TS]

  just overall what do we think liz yes it [TS]

  was a very very good star wars movie it [TS]

  was very Star Wars it had weight and [TS]

  there was great on the little ships and [TS]

  everyone looked a bit sad sometimes and [TS]

  it felt like proper star wars movie I [TS]

  didn't leave the cinema with that [TS]

  horrible feeling of sick nausea that [TS]

  accompanied slightly earlier star wars [TS]

  movie nausea confusion distress it was [TS]

  very difficult [TS]

  I this had none of that this was like [TS]

  this is proper this is very proper Star [TS]

  Wars fair enough [TS]

  James what about you well going into [TS]

  this so we knew that they could make a [TS]

  good star wars movie and before I went [TS]

  to see The Force awakens i watch the [TS]

  holiday special to set my morning at the [TS]

  lowest card sort of appetite of just wow [TS]

  that was the right thing today it was [TS]

  enormous disputed heavily student i went [TS]

  into having seen the absolute worst [TS]

  so I know it can only go up but as we [TS]

  saw it was a really good film but now I [TS]

  had the opposite problem of my [TS]

  expectations were high her before this I [TS]

  actually I played the Star Wars [TS]

  Battlefront playstation vr mission we [TS]

  get to fly an x-wing around and escort k [TS]

  2 s.o bringing Jim to the rebels and it [TS]

  was really really good so I went into [TS]

  this with my expectations a bit too high [TS]

  but they've actually match them all and [TS]

  i really like 20 excellent and what [TS]

  about you done you know it's it was [TS]

  interesting experience for me in part [TS]

  because i watched this movie in india [TS]

  which was a bit of a change from my [TS]

  previous viewing but I'm I you know it's [TS]

  hard to know what to expect and how to [TS]

  expect and how to calibrate yourself I [TS]

  mean I didn't go to James route [TS]

  I'm not not self-destructing could not [TS]

  insane [TS]

  yeah exactly so don't pretend but you [TS]

  know hey and so we've never seen a Star [TS]

  Wars movie that is self-contained and [TS]

  that doesn't fit into the sort of [TS]

  overall like saga you know mean sequence [TS]

  of the the stories that are being told [TS]

  and so it was an interesting experience [TS]

  but i wasn't really quite sure how to [TS]

  calibrate and so i think i spent a lot [TS]

  of time watching with a very critical [TS]

  eye and and in some ways maybe that [TS]

  lesson my enjoyment because i felt like [TS]

  i had my thinking cap on [TS]

  I still I still liked it a lot I had a [TS]

  good time I had some new pics which i'm [TS]

  sure we'll get to at some point but [TS]

  overall my impression was positive I do [TS]

  feel like I need to watch it a couple [TS]

  more times to really sort of let it sink [TS]

  in but now that it's like over the for [TS]

  the first time and that I don't have to [TS]

  like have my expectations anymore I [TS]

  can't think I watching for the first [TS]

  time [TS]

  I know what happens now i feel i can go [TS]

  back and not have to have all those [TS]

  expectations hanging on me so I'm really [TS]

  looking forward to to repeated viewings [TS]

  and see how it holds up and seeing if [TS]

  that reinforces some of my criticisms or [TS]

  whether they diminish over time I feel [TS]

  like with the force awakens some of mine [TS]

  diminished over time it became more [TS]

  familiar but you know it's always [TS]

  interesting see and I think these [TS]

  anthology movies are going to be a very [TS]

  interesting exercise for those of us who [TS]

  follow this franchise for so many years [TS]

  because of their their varied and [TS]

  self-contained nature so it was that I [TS]

  think as a first effort as that goes [TS]

  it was pretty great and yeah I'm pretty [TS]

  happy [TS]

  yeah I think uh I think you'll probably [TS]

  it sounds like you and I were initially [TS]

  on the same page at any rate but i have [TS]

  seen again since and that did definitely [TS]

  sort of you know make me feel more [TS]

  positive about the movie seeing it [TS]

  another time so i suspect that may well [TS]

  be the case for you because like you I [TS]

  did enjoy I really did but i did spend a [TS]

  lot of the movie kind of thinking about [TS]

  overthinking things i think in turning [TS]

  things over your head and also noticing [TS]

  just how many things in the trailers [TS]

  were not in this young oh yeah that [TS]

  really bugged me the whole time I was [TS]

  like roads afterwards and being like hey [TS]

  this line wasn't in it that shot wasn't [TS]

  in it right [TS]

  yeah it was just not mine [TS]

  I'd James were you about to mention that [TS]

  video that I yes I was so somebody has [TS]

  taken all the unused shots from the [TS]

  various trailers and edited them [TS]

  together into the trailer and there are [TS]

  47 of them and what watching it's like [TS]

  watching the trailer for a sort of [TS]

  parallel universe version of this film [TS]

  because it's so different and literally [TS]

  none of the the shots in this is edited [TS]

  thing are actually used but and not just [TS]

  shots but like the shots that there that [TS]

  there are that didn't they were in the [TS]

  trailers that didn't make it to the [TS]

  movie imply entire scenes my entire [TS]

  sequences of action the just hit the [TS]

  cutting room floor and some of them that [TS]

  were so like front center in the [TS]

  marketing to write like this [TS]

  Willie's with the one of the most iconic [TS]

  images from i think the first trailer is [TS]

  the that last shot of her in the TIE [TS]

  fighter in the United armor get up in [TS]

  the circular cord or whatever [TS]

  nope that's not in there I think that's [TS]

  one thing might help the second time [TS]

  i've only seen the one time I think the [TS]

  fact that i'm not prepared for [TS]

  roll those trailers shots not being in [TS]

  there is not going threw me out because [TS]

  I know that the climax i was a little [TS]

  bit hang on a second wasn't there a TIE [TS]

  fighter their last time I saw that yeah [TS]

  and there was the overwhelming [TS]

  disappointment of not having Ben [TS]

  Mendelsohn deliver the word power and [TS]

  that way that was pretty devastating I [TS]

  yeah exactly that's it that was exactly [TS]

  my experience was watching it a second [TS]

  time without those expectations because [TS]

  you know I knew what shots weren't going [TS]

  to be in it now really did ya make me [TS]

  feel better about it and by the way that [TS]

  TIE fighter shot we should mention [TS]

  because this only came out recently but [TS]

  allegedly that shot of her on the [TS]

  walkway where the TIE fighter rises up [TS]

  to meter that was at the end of the [TS]

  second trailer that was created [TS]

  specifically for the trailer apparently [TS]

  was never actually intended to be in the [TS]

  movie which I am really angry about [TS]

  actually I think that's really really [TS]

  really bad thing to do here [TS]

  yeah underhand it feels kind of [TS]

  misleading you know it deliberately [TS]

  misleading i mean it can understand with [TS]

  the first trailer where they didn't [TS]

  really know and a hundred percent where [TS]

  they were going [TS]

  but then in the later trailers you would [TS]

  have thought it would have convert one [TS]

  especially when as Dan said the the end [TS]

  of the first trailer was her wearing the [TS]

  tie fighter suit now obviously this is [TS]

  star wars people dress up in [TS]

  stormtrooper armor all the time so you [TS]

  know there was kind of there was always [TS]

  a sense of well she's probably just in [TS]

  disguise but there was also a suggestion [TS]

  of hang on she's a criminal and she's an [TS]

  outlaw and she's a rebel kashira bells [TS]

  is she actually a traitor nor there was [TS]

  also that there was the line in one of [TS]

  the trailers about you know what will [TS]

  you become what its effect size whole [TS]

  speech from their trailer which is none [TS]

  of which i believe is all rights is [TS]

  their move [TS]

  yeah yeah but so when you have that and [TS]

  then you end the next trailer with a [TS]

  shot of her that appears to be her [TS]

  leaving somewhere to be greeted by [TS]

  somebody in a TIE fighter you know there [TS]

  is that they can't have not realized [TS]

  that there was an implication there that [TS]

  possibly this is a story about yeah you [TS]

  know about her betraying the rebellion [TS]

  or something [TS]

  now obviously it might not you could use [TS]

  those exact same shots and actually [TS]

  that's not the case at all but they must [TS]

  have realized that that was one [TS]

  implication people would take away from [TS]

  those trailers and so to create that [TS]

  shot only for the trailer [TS]

  yes it's exceeded marketing-wise because [TS]

  it was one of the things that got me [TS]

  really excited for this movie but [TS]

  ultimately it kind of worked against [TS]

  them because it was one of the things [TS]

  that really sort of when I came out of [TS]

  it was watching it the first time I was [TS]

  really kind of like I was not the movie [TS]

  was expecting and I'm really conflicted [TS]

  as to how i figure about it [TS]

  yeah you're not to not to derail too [TS]

  much with the i I've definitely had this [TS]

  experience more in the recent years [TS]

  watching trailers and then going into [TS]

  movies and finding that I'm looking for [TS]

  scenes that were that I realize [TS]

  especially movies where i watch the [TS]

  trailer like a dozen times like Gayle [TS]

  force awakens or something like that and [TS]

  I find myself looking or anticipating or [TS]

  expecting those lines and I feel like [TS]

  that sometimes does dampen my enjoyment [TS]

  of movies because I'm like that got that [TS]

  like critical part of the brain or more [TS]

  like okay this makes sense this is where [TS]

  the scene was brought in and so you know [TS]

  it when you get through your waiting and [TS]

  you're waiting and that payoff is never [TS]

  delivered and you find yourself thinking [TS]

  okay I'm distracted and i just missed a [TS]

  bunch of stuff because i was waiting for [TS]

  something I thought was coming and [TS]

  didn't turn out to be going one of the [TS]

  things we were advised against watching [TS]

  the trailers by a certain I'll and [TS]

  nothing employee who is hopefully not [TS]

  listening to us talk right now and I I [TS]

  now wonder if his advice not to watch [TS]

  the trailers was not because although so [TS]

  much in the trailers that spoil the film [TS]

  it's that the trailers don't represent [TS]

  was was in the film so [TS]

  maybe that was it you know I want to [TS]

  emphasize I really really enjoyed this [TS]

  one even the first time around I really [TS]

  enjoyed it it was as listed it felt like [TS]

  proper star was just like we said about [TS]

  the force awakens everything felt like [TS]

  oh yes this is real star wars even [TS]

  though i will know this movie was shot [TS]

  entirely digitally where is force [TS]

  awakens was shot on 35 million like the [TS]

  original trilogy but you know this movie [TS]

  does have several floors and where we [TS]

  are inevitably going to talk about them [TS]

  but i really did have a good time [TS]

  watching it and I would rank it [TS]

  well I would rank this so good but well [TS]

  and especially when you hear this I [TS]

  would write this as the fifth-best star [TS]

  wars movie ever and on considering their [TS]

  own there but considering they've been [TS]

  eight and three of them are prequels [TS]

  that may not sound like much but it's [TS]

  because solidly in the middle [TS]

  well the thing is the original tweet way [TS]

  home Anthony important questions like oh [TS]

  ok which where the rather than part yeah [TS]

  three people here at the top of the [TS]

  original trilogy wrote the top there on [TS]

  touching that because you know a new [TS]

  hope Empire and Jedi are just [TS]

  automatically top three any of that [TS]

  world order to get our internal whoa [TS]

  well down had well they are they're fair [TS]

  i decided but ok what I love rewatching [TS]

  Empire as an adult because it's the most [TS]

  complex movie but nothing can be that [TS]

  joy and escapism of watching star wars [TS]

  for the first time you know for the [TS]

  hundredth time when I was a kid and and [TS]

  so on down there infringing i really [TS]

  like it i know a lot of people [TS]

  Alan egg but I love Jedi it's a great [TS]

  great movie in a great way to win that [TS]

  really so take that original trilogy out [TS]

  and then you're left with is the [TS]

  prequels which are down in the [TS]

  bottomless pit of hell and that only [TS]

  leaves two other movies [TS]

  yeah so I mean that is the only [TS]

  important question right now is you [TS]

  think this is better or worse than force [TS]

  awakens I think force while I wouldn't [TS]

  say this was worse than force awakens [TS]

  because that makes it sound terrible but [TS]

  i do think before I enjoyed force [TS]

  awakens more and that's that's what [TS]

  about the distinction I enjoyed it more [TS]

  I'm not necessarily going to say it's a [TS]

  better movie i think in terms of lack of [TS]

  plot holes [TS]

  uh-huh do things like this may actually [TS]

  be a better movie but i enjoyed force [TS]

  awakens more i did enjoy this one just [TS]

  not as much i would say visually I think [TS]

  this is superior to force awakens just [TS]

  innovation some of the shots are put [TS]

  together especially the like the blowing [TS]

  up chunks of planets and stuff on scares [TS]

  and things like that i thought there [TS]

  were shots in this that were we're [TS]

  really amazing and I mean I did see it [TS]

  on imax 3d biggest cedars-sinai and [TS]

  Scotland but but i still think those [TS]

  stuff in this that was superior to the [TS]

  force awakens which is not to say that I [TS]

  i mean i think force awakens is of a is [TS]

  a I I enjoyed it a lot more but it's a [TS]

  different kind of film and we'll get [TS]

  into that I'm sure but you know it's the [TS]

  kind of the force awakens was fun and [TS]

  was pushing all the sort of good feeling [TS]

  buttons where is this not quite so much [TS]

  i think it's also hit much higher highs [TS]

  with the x-wing TIE fighter dogfights [TS]

  and yes you can adjust to group which [TS]

  were those were once I think I i love to [TS]

  force we can I think that was one point [TS]

  that movie where I felt just a little [TS]

  bit disappointed that I didn't get the [TS]

  thrill day even replacing them with the [TS]

  original star wars with the fight at the [TS]

  end it if that's I mean that's still the [TS]

  best one really is just beautifully [TS]

  choreographed dogfight but here i was [TS]

  getting that same thrill this is really [TS]

  exciting really cool really awesome that [TS]

  didn't have the force awakens even [TS]

  though they're yeah I do [TS]

  Ted preference weeks just closed a much [TS]

  much more people [TS]

  yeah I think that's part of it right [TS]

  like they're so there's so much there's [TS]

  so much joy in that movie and a lot of [TS]

  ways right exactly there was a sense of [TS]

  elation exactly and it both because of [TS]

  the expectation in the connection with [TS]

  the original trilogy but also because [TS]

  it's just the kind of story it's telling [TS]

  right it's a heroic classic you know [TS]

  hero's journey type thing where as this [TS]

  is it's a war movie and it's going to be [TS]

  a bit more dire a bit more somber in [TS]

  some places not say it was devoid of [TS]

  comedy or anything like that but like [TS]

  you know i watched it not to jump ahead [TS]

  to the ending but i was thinking you [TS]

  know I'd showed the trailers to my [TS]

  cousin's daughter's who are 12 and 10 [TS]

  and the twelve-year-old was super [TS]

  excited about it and having watched this [TS]

  movie now I'm like man I don't know this [TS]

  is pretty heavy for a 12 you'll be fine [TS]

  on the disney online store in the UK [TS]

  there's a gin so costume for kids [TS]

  suitable for 440 thirteen-year-olds Wow [TS]

  and there was a comment right underneath [TS]

  it and it said our nine-year-old is [TS]

  absolutely thrilled to be going to see [TS]

  rogue one dressed as gin and I thought [TS]

  oh good luck with that [TS]

  will she be quite so thrilled when the [TS]

  way out that that's going to be a very [TS]

  difficult conversation on the way home I [TS]

  don't know though because like I I mean [TS]

  you know nine years old okay that's kind [TS]

  of pushing it but you know young boys [TS]

  get tragic heroes the do sort of died [TS]

  heroically all the time in movies you [TS]

  know maybe ok maybe not so much in [TS]

  disney movies admittedly but you know [TS]

  that he's a thing in fiction is the hero [TS]

  accessorize and boys get that even young [TS]

  boys get that in there fiction all the [TS]

  time so I think it's kind of cool girls [TS]

  get Charlotte's Web Charlotte dies at [TS]

  the yes yes which isn't quite the same [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah so I think it's kind of cool that [TS]

  we now have this female hero doing the [TS]

  same thing the heroic sacrifice i was [TS]

  not so much objected that is the fact [TS]

  that like you know everybody does [TS]

  everybody hear that girls to care about [TS]

  during the entire course remember what [TS]

  is actually a really loved about me was [TS]

  was I when I realized that everyone got [TS]

  everyone's going to die and then it [TS]

  didn't it could be could have really [TS]

  wallet in it could have really brought [TS]

  it down and made you miserable and [TS]

  really need it [TS]

  annoyingly gritty and dark and awful but [TS]

  he didn't it was done with it was [TS]

  bizarre that the wiped out the whole [TS]

  main cast it was done with such a light [TS]

  touch and the beautiful epic movie that [TS]

  the end that you suddenly you left [TS]

  feeling like okay but everything's cool [TS]

  gonna be all right any new you obviously [TS]

  knew it is as well but it's as I thought [TS]

  that was a really a really good thing [TS]

  they did their that it is very dark [TS]

  material but they didn't allow that to [TS]

  overshadow humor or the the hope that [TS]

  was sort of the core [TS]

  going through the movie as well yeah [TS]

  well any and again it is a prequel and [TS]

  not in the sense of it was set 30 years [TS]

  before the other movie but this movie [TS]

  was set [TS]

  literally you know what less than a week [TS]

  before her you know a new hood probably [TS]

  about five minutes before and then about [TS]

  your enemies five minutes before yeah [TS]

  and that is tricky i have written [TS]

  prequels like that myself prequels that [TS]

  take place almost immediately before [TS]

  something else and they are really [TS]

  tricky because there is that [TS]

  inevitability of certain elements and [TS]

  needing to make a story that sort of has [TS]

  its own peril [TS]

  even though you know readers viewers [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  no really how it's going to end they [TS]

  know the ultimate outcome that is tricky [TS]

  and I think they did largely pull it off [TS]

  here as I say especially watching it a [TS]

  second time I I felt a lot better about [TS]

  it and thought yeah actually they really [TS]

  did pull it all together quite well I [TS]

  think they were a bit self-indulgent the [TS]

  overindulgent on some of the fanservice [TS]

  though no no no no more fanservice [TS]

  leader little or no i meant something [TS]

  that was the first time i saw it could [TS]

  have seen it twice as well and the first [TS]

  time I came out my feeling was I really [TS]

  enjoyed that movie but the fanservice [TS]

  got too much because it took me out of [TS]

  the film too [TS]

  don't get me wrong I like fancy not [TS]

  enough because we had all the cameos of [TS]

  like you know the ships and and all the [TS]

  sort of the the feeling of styles i [TS]

  didn't really need for them to be trying [TS]

  to remind me every five minutes that [TS]

  this was a star wars from yeah you know [TS]

  I had this thought I'd just earlier [TS]

  today as I was sort of mentally going [TS]

  back over it [TS]

  the things that really got like I found [TS]

  a little jarring was the literal [TS]

  splicing of footage from episode 4 into [TS]

  this movie with the x-wing and white [TS]

  wing pilots yeah and and that was the [TS]

  moment where I thought like you know [TS]

  okay [TS]

  it bugged me at the time of bug me but [TS]

  like at the time i noted it right i [TS]

  stepped out because like i watch those [TS]

  movies so many times I know every shot [TS]

  from the manufacturers happy you know [TS]

  every mustache but that wasn't a shot [TS]

  from this [TS]

  several of them seem to be lifted direct [TS]

  they were unused shots they said that [TS]

  they found a like original unused [TS]

  footage and when they were in [TS]

  pre-production and they so they they [TS]

  want shots that were taken from for ok [TS]

  but they're there they're very close [TS]

  because obviously the camera's position [TS]

  the same yeah and it everything looks a [TS]

  lot and he's the same after india right [TS]

  it's the same actors and so I guess my [TS]

  feeling at the time was i I understand [TS]

  why I reacted that way but I also [TS]

  understand kind of what you did it right [TS]

  because you have your establishing a [TS]

  sort of continuity not to say you know [TS]

  those characters well enough that you [TS]

  care about them you know when you then [TS]

  if you then watch tv watch Road one and [TS]

  then you immediately watch watching new [TS]

  hope say having never seen either of [TS]

  them i can see you being all it's the [TS]

  guy from Rhode one like you know this [TS]

  the same fighter pilots right like so [TS]

  there is a certain sort of continuity in [TS]

  there so i get a mighty isis with all [TS]

  the women pilots go yeah it's happy that [TS]

  they all died except for the pilot stuff [TS]

  didn't actually bother me all really [TS]

  what what what got me with the [TS]

  fanservice was the like ugly guy from [TS]

  the cantina that we don't know that I [TS]

  don't know the characters name but it [TS]

  gets him in the mark on the bobbin dr. [TS]

  Evans en yeah I'm come on you know that [TS]

  was just that really was absurd the [TS]

  c-3po and r2d2 stuck out i think yes [TS]

  that was kinda it's gonna happen it was [TS]

  going to happen but um yeah no I think [TS]

  those two bothered me the most i liked [TS]

  the subtle rebels cameos their [TS]

  inventions yeah baby yeah and i will [TS]

  note that it was interesting i got a lot [TS]

  more because then when I went to see it [TS]

  in India the movie wasn't in English [TS]

  wasn't w anything but they also had [TS]

  which is not uncommon in movies in India [TS]

  it was also subtitled in english and so [TS]

  I got basically read this movie there's [TS]

  a lot of little also a little [TS]

  distracting at times because I cannot [TS]

  read the subtitles when they're on the [TS]

  screen but you catch a lot of background [TS]

  lines because everything is subtitled [TS]

  and so I caught way more than I probably [TS]

  would have had i just watched it the [TS]

  first time through but it was also [TS]

  distracted because i think i spent more [TS]

  time reading the subtitles than paying [TS]

  attention to what was happening on the [TS]

  screen at times and I did get still [TS]

  there was a cold for general syndulla [TS]

  for hair snow levels but I was like yeah [TS]

  the best character chopper appears at [TS]

  one moment and makes little chocolate [TS]

  Liza's someone said that i have to now [TS]

  have to look for a good man that shot [TS]

  per character chopper is the droid and [TS]

  rebels he's a another device the little [TS]

  like he's a murderous Lola homicider [TS]

  okay physically see this is another this [TS]

  is one of the slight issue I had with it [TS]

  was I did feel like I was there was a [TS]

  lot of stuff in this movie where it was [TS]

  like they just not saying anything here [TS]

  because they think I've watched clone [TS]

  wars and rebels the seems to be a lot of [TS]

  stuff that was hinted at the felt like [TS]

  oh I should watch all read something [TS]

  else in order to fully get out reference [TS]

  or understand that did bother me a [TS]

  little because I'm like you can't do [TS]

  that really you know you gotta know that [TS]

  the vast majority of people watching [TS]

  this movie will only ever have seen the [TS]

  movies and are not going to watch [TS]

  especially an animated TV series huh are [TS]

  you talking about revels that's probably [TS]

  the greatest one cannot call stars think [TS]

  Mary I'm sure it is i write comic books [TS]

  but there is a you know there is a [TS]

  certain proportion of people who are [TS]

  never going to watch an animated series [TS]

  that didn't happen for me but if that is [TS]

  happening this should work like that [TS]

  because it was one of things that dr. [TS]

  all the time where they make a reference [TS]

  that fans will spot it and then gauhar [TS]

  very music if you're not a fan [TS]

  you just don't notice it's just part of [TS]

  background doesn't matter which I [TS]

  suppose would be my litmus test for this [TS]

  as well for me it was fine i didn't [TS]

  really notice anything but I guess [TS]

  especially as suppose with soul carrera [TS]

  would be the big one that you can of he [TS]

  doesn't feels like half a charachter [TS]

  maybe he really felt incomplete in this [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I've never seen the the [TS]

  3d clone wars series but i have seen [TS]

  rebels so I didn't know who he was [TS]

  apparently he's not going to be going [TS]

  back into rebels again so and voice by [TS]

  Forest Whitaker so so I mean it's [TS]

  interesting to me because I think it's [TS]

  the its kind of the inverse as with the [TS]

  other some of the other answers is kind [TS]

  of the inverse in the sense that we got [TS]

  you know when we watch the first movies [TS]

  you know there are all these throwaway [TS]

  lines of things that obviously didn't [TS]

  exist right like like obi-wan talk about [TS]

  the clone wars and then eventually we [TS]

  got the story of the clone wars [TS]

  this is the backwards way where we [TS]

  already had something that happened the [TS]

  ties into it and then it gets thrown off [TS]

  as i mentioned in a light sort of you [TS]

  know in a live-action movie and so those [TS]

  properties have already been developed [TS]

  which is kind of the opposite of like oh [TS]

  now we have all this stuff that we can [TS]

  pull out of the movies and make stuff [TS]

  about and it was kind of similar to with [TS]

  the the spices you know the using the [TS]

  old footage and spices and stuff from [TS]

  the original movies in CGI people who [TS]

  will get you where it's stuff like [TS]

  rather than having you know in them when [TS]

  they've gone back with special editions [TS]

  and George's inserted stuff that brings [TS]

  continuity with the prequels and we all [TS]

  feel the way we feel that this is kind [TS]

  of the opposite of that to write the [TS]

  inverse version where it's like we're [TS]

  going to insert stuff from the original [TS]

  movie into the old movie to make it scan [TS]

  again it's a nice continuity thing that [TS]

  was one thing that I found odd watching [TS]

  it a second time [TS]

  some people have complained about the [TS]

  location you know subtitles he sort of [TS]

  superimposed titles are you know where [TS]

  they are in my view which obviously you [TS]

  don't get a regular starters maybe I [TS]

  don't have a problem without me I even [TS]

  saw some people complain about it [TS]

  because of the typeface which is just [TS]

  the left one out notably which rise and [TS]

  then write the one location that's from [TS]

  the prequels yeah which is how do you [TS]

  say mr. father fire [TS]

  yeah they didn't I exclaimed it my [TS]

  girlfriend gave me a look it's mr. fire [TS]

  and she's like yet I didn't even realize [TS]

  it's mr. for until i went online [TS]

  afterwards was reading up on stuff about [TS]

  it that was safe to go out and spoiler [TS]

  territory before that just click and [TS]

  take that makes it slightly worse even [TS]

  though even though i did get a little [TS]

  this is bad i felt a little thrill and I [TS]

  saw Beal got Organa and I was like how [TS]

  its remaining calls and yet they finally [TS]

  gave Jimmy Smith a good star wars movie [TS]

  yeah so happy about that because he was [TS]

  so squandered in the wheels i love to [TS]

  this if there's there's many tight small [TS]

  things move the accident or but what am [TS]

  I remember the bag containing things [TS]

  that was marvelous was the looks between [TS]

  him and Mama Jerry Lee takes I was just [TS]

  I was making feeling and annoying people [TS]

  and receipt well so let's like take in a [TS]

  movie there bro [TS]

  not continuity with the prequels without [TS]

  like having to rush to really remember [TS]

  too much about it was pretty welcome if [TS]

  you had no idea is always bail organa [TS]

  you know if you have if you'd never seen [TS]

  the prequels that's a good an example of [TS]

  doing it well where those CS would still [TS]

  because of his list says the acting [TS]

  you'd still get ok these people clearly [TS]

  no one another well they're obviously [TS]

  old friends they're like they're up to [TS]

  something and he's clearly an important [TS]

  guy because he walks in when they [TS]

  mention the Senate you know all of that [TS]

  is that's really well done so you [TS]

  wouldn't necessarily need to have seen [TS]

  this equals to understand why his [TS]

  character was there and what he was [TS]

  doing [TS]

  yeah we never seen senator panel before [TS]

  been a couple of lines she manages to [TS]

  establish yourself as like presents you [TS]

  know who she is and remember her [TS]

  I mean they also helps the costume with [TS]

  the gold clock thingy on it and yeah [TS]

  very precious accent but that that that [TS]

  was a nice example of of something that [TS]

  she could easily been a character from [TS]

  another part of the franchise and it [TS]

  would fit in there but as far as I know [TS]

  she isn't and that was there and it [TS]

  worked [TS]

  yeah it did ok so let's talk about [TS]

  characters then and that's you know [TS]

  that's as good as segways any to talk [TS]

  about the fact that he sees the second [TS]

  okay it's not a saga movie but it is now [TS]

  the second star wars movie with a woman [TS]

  in the lead role in the lives we turn to [TS]

  you first last time to talk about race [TS]

  so what did you think of genera so I [TS]

  love probably don't understand why she's [TS]

  dead wife is having a theory that that's [TS]

  ridiculous it's deeply deeply are very [TS]

  deeply deeply obsessing and no i think [TS]

  the character was written marvelously i [TS]

  love felicity jones performance and I [TS]

  look like she's quite may be underplayed [TS]

  a little bit and that she's really keeps [TS]

  our emotions very tight and it's just [TS]

  because it's something that I identify [TS]

  with that because i have to pay it [TS]

  difficult to express myself and and it's [TS]

  just high so nice that you've got that [TS]

  Ray is being held up this sort of the [TS]

  lead star wars female hero this is our [TS]

  hero [TS]

  there's there's another woman now I mean [TS]

  okay yes there's Leah but in the current [TS]

  franchise you call it's not just the [TS]

  woman there are women and and i think [TS]

  watching it's one of the things i can [TS]

  after after coming out the future was [TS]

  that the rules of generous oh and Cassie [TS]

  and or maybe 30 years ago those would be [TS]

  swapped around [TS]

  yes and we've got and casting might be [TS]

  into him back maybe she wouldn't have [TS]

  liked killed that guy and being quite so [TS]

  dark [TS]

  a bit still cat we've got cassia the [TS]

  face t love interest sidekick there [TS]

  who's totally everything the hero is but [TS]

  not actually the primary hero so it was [TS]

  a no it's nice seeing something that it [TS]

  is more often the way around seeing that [TS]

  way around the disappointing aspect of [TS]

  it for me was that this movie certainly [TS]

  felt like a great deal more than the [TS]

  force awakens which i thought if i did [TS]

  in the current climate of television and [TS]

  film media a reasonable job [TS]

  this did not do so good job with women [TS]

  and the other rules there were numerous [TS]

  bit parts in this movie and almost all [TS]

  of them were meal it was particularly [TS]

  egregious in terms of the Empire the [TS]

  entire empire is man apparently i mean i [TS]

  know there was a cool more going on but [TS]

  it still it was it was just got very [TS]

  very silly the parts and I mean most [TS]

  work when and magical sins get actually [TS]

  his engineers came out and still the [TS]

  there all men as well yeah anybody a [TS]

  with it was even lamppost they're all [TS]

  men because or some clinics like [TS]

  gentlemen is and i'm looking at going [TS]

  off for goodness sake seriously there's [TS]

  like five of the mind up there you can [TS]

  even bother to get talking women on [TS]

  stage what what he's doing not a very [TS]

  cannon fodder [TS]

  yeah and and and then there were the [TS]

  background shots i was paying a lot of [TS]

  attention during the road base where we [TS]

  dead did one scene that was fired that [TS]

  get hits the bare minimum as far as I'm [TS]

  concerned was one of the conference's [TS]

  that had more marthoma jen and the [TS]

  senator a senator panel talking the 31 [TS]

  in that scene who had speaking lines [TS]

  which I think was more left school to [TS]

  number of men who are speaking in that [TS]

  scene they're also women you can see in [TS]

  the background though it was nowhere [TS]

  near gender equality the really bad one [TS]

  again was when Cassian came to jen and [TS]

  said we're with you and it was like [TS]

  every person's down [TS]

  behind him while you're mad and I was [TS]

  like you cannot be serious you cannot be [TS]

  serious [TS]

  then I going into the movie galleries [TS]

  knew that the rest of the main castrol [TS]

  men which is annoying and you know at [TS]

  least let you know how you managed to [TS]

  get two women on board that ship can you [TS]

  not get a little bit there [TS]

  no no and then I got really i might [TS]

  state the first two minutes of the [TS]

  dogfight getting increasingly annoyed [TS]

  because there weren't any women and then [TS]

  finally there's a woodpile and then [TS]

  another and i think there was a third [TS]

  one as well and so it sounds like a fine [TS]

  then I guess but it was it was is my [TS]

  main complaint about the movie this is [TS]

  the sort of my big thing that means I'm [TS]

  really annoyed but ever more annoyed [TS]

  because it's a really good movie and [TS]

  because it would have been so easy not [TS]

  to do this there is absolutely no reason [TS]

  why half of those parts those tiny bit [TS]

  parts could have gone to women no reason [TS]

  whatsoever changed nothing in the movie [TS]

  other than you've got more realistic [TS]

  better representation or people on your [TS]

  screen and it's just it's annoying [TS]

  because it's such a simple thing and yet [TS]

  it's so that so yeah that's what that [TS]

  but I completely agree for what that's [TS]

  worth [TS]

  and yeah there were that there was at [TS]

  least a woman piloting a you wing and [TS]

  another one piloting a y-wing bomber i'm [TS]

  not sure about any others but they were [TS]

  definitely those two [TS]

  however the third as well but I'm not a [TS]

  hundred percent sure yeah i don't think [TS]

  there were any women flying x-wings [TS]

  which was a bit yeah that was that was [TS]

  literally a complaint my girlfriend [TS]

  making out because she was right with [TS]

  you listen and I agree to they are the [TS]

  background representation of women here [TS]

  is is pretty awful for AI it bothered me [TS]

  that the main characters like they did [TS]

  great job with representation of people [TS]

  of color like that was fantastic i'm so [TS]

  pleased about that but the again like I [TS]

  said it wouldn't have been that hard [TS]

  guys like you know find find some more [TS]

  women at least for the supporting roles [TS]

  and it's it's just that extra bit [TS]

  frustrating because I feel like it [TS]

  wasn't it was amazing in the force [TS]

  awakens but it did hit my sort of the [TS]

  minimum bar and not actively annoying me [TS]

  kind of things like really went that [TS]

  courts what [TS]

  well maybe in like 10 or 20 years when [TS]

  they do a rerelease they can just go [TS]

  back in and digitally inserted women [TS]

  into various roles it was a bit weird [TS]

  though that yet because as you say there [TS]

  was so many there are so many crowd [TS]

  scenes even in jersey city you know the [TS]

  word that many women in the market crowd [TS]

  scenes and it's like really really you [TS]

  know how difficult would have been to [TS]

  just put some women in the background [TS]

  there [TS]

  I'm is very odd however mean that aside [TS]

  i agree that I thought felicity jones [TS]

  his performance was great i mean she was [TS]

  clearly one of the you know the standout [TS]

  performers of the movie and thank [TS]

  goodness because obviously she had to [TS]

  carry the whole thing but she does it so [TS]

  well she has you know I think they're [TS]

  what three really big emotional scenes [TS]

  for her and she pulls every single one [TS]

  of them off with aplomb and with you [TS]

  know everything's there but as you said [TS]

  she doesn't overdo it she kind of [TS]

  unbranded plays a little bit I and she's [TS]

  got that edge there's something about [TS]

  her attitude in this movie that she is [TS]

  even even when she after her father dies [TS]

  and she's like right okay I'm I'm a [TS]

  hundred percent in the rebellion now she [TS]

  still gives it a needle there's still a [TS]

  little bit of like defiance in there and [TS]

  I I loved that about her performance in [TS]

  about her character i totally agree and [TS]

  I think you know what's nice as again to [TS]

  elicit about not just holding up ray as [TS]

  the only example the fact that we're [TS]

  getting women characters and they're not [TS]

  all the same character right yeah had [TS]

  ray and jen i got my mage and I've got [TS]

  my rope next I want at least played gin [TS]

  Leia you know we all have you know [TS]

  they're dirty they're distinct [TS]

  characters they're very clearly [TS]

  different and they each have their own [TS]

  sort of journey and and i think that's [TS]

  that's great because nobody likes to [TS]

  watch the same characters over and over [TS]

  again in any case but the fact that we [TS]

  now have sort of add a more diverse a [TS]

  list of female protagonists 2.2 is just [TS]

  fantastic and she gets such a [TS]

  magnificent here are as well I think of [TS]

  all the star wars ones nobody has a more [TS]

  consistent and in many ways the most [TS]

  epic inhuman York because she doesn't [TS]

  have the magic powers drawn she's just [TS]

  got her [TS]

  and she has these you know did the awful [TS]

  things that happened to her the [TS]

  equivalent of what's happened [TS]

  ok maybe a whole planet fluently no you [TS]

  know what I mean it's okay it's not [TS]

  gonna remember it goes and if it goes in [TS]

  the beautiful arc thing and it [TS]

  culminates and you get the the ending [TS]

  and then it's done and it's like you get [TS]

  the complete hero story and that doesn't [TS]

  happen a lot for you mean there's [TS]

  obviously there's there's less female [TS]

  hair heroes then there are male ones or [TS]

  on the big screen anyway but just to get [TS]

  such a complete and quality are [TS]

  presented in a movie of the hero and [TS]

  it's just it's really wonderful i really [TS]

  i really appreciate that [TS]

  I mean felicity jones i really enjoyed [TS]

  her world-famous of course as Emma [TS]

  Grundy from BBC Radio Four's the archers [TS]

  well done well done [TS]

  he is but I there was that there was a [TS]

  story there and Tatiana maslany from [TS]

  often black had been up for the role but [TS]

  she had to drop because of some shelling [TS]

  reasons and I do wonder what it would've [TS]

  been like with her in the role I mean I [TS]

  think Felicity Jones did it really well [TS]

  and if I think it's you know I think a [TS]

  lot of the but I think all of the [TS]

  characters pretty much where were very [TS]

  good i don't think anyone was a sort of [TS]

  too shallow the written but yeah I mean [TS]

  we can go through them I guess [TS]

  yeah well dad and when we will do I will [TS]

  say I disagree a little bit with that [TS]

  assessment the one thing i wanted to say [TS]

  about ginger so the character was I [TS]

  realized about halfway through my second [TS]

  viewing the because there were a lot of [TS]

  people looked obviously at the sort of [TS]

  look at the characters and yes the sort [TS]

  of gender split more have you and a lot [TS]

  of people were saying oh well you know [TS]

  Cassie and he's the sort of much how [TS]

  people said poe dameron was clearly this [TS]

  other hand solo substitute in that movie [TS]

  people are saying the calcium was going [TS]

  to be the Hansel substitution but he's [TS]

  not well known is what is the house of [TS]

  these moving as Lee said heat she [TS]

  doesn't have the magic she is the [TS]

  skeptical like defiant initially kind of [TS]

  our don't care [TS]

  ye rebellion i'm doing this one thing [TS]

  and then i'm done i get my reward and [TS]

  marriage she is the han solo and she you [TS]

  know as a character carries it very well [TS]

  but yeah I think that's another thing [TS]

  that Felicity Jones carries really well [TS]

  he's that that same feeling we got from [TS]

  and soul of a rogue haha of being that [TS]

  you know completely but in it for [TS]

  herself but actually not really you know [TS]

  and the road with a heart of gold [TS]

  she played that so well but I mean [TS]

  Cassie and basically murder somebody [TS]

  within the first five minutes and you [TS]

  know so I'm kind of sets of him as being [TS]

  you know if it is basically just [TS]

  adjusting the baseline if she's the hero [TS]

  and she's Han Solo then the Han Solo's [TS]

  need to be dollars not there's no you [TS]

  did to me about who shot first here yeah [TS]

  that's right like a good I guy didn't [TS]

  even try and shoot it wasn't even on the [TS]

  weekend we say a word with to my casting [TS]

  I was gonna move on to cassia next year [TS]

  so what are your thoughts on him you [TS]

  know I first sort of like proper Latino [TS]

  lead in the Star Wars movie i really [TS]

  like Diego Luna I think he he does a [TS]

  great job with what he's given here and [TS]

  i joined his performance i enjoyed the [TS]

  chemistry between him and felicity jones [TS]

  i think they did really well in that my [TS]

  biggest complaint about this character [TS]

  is that I feel like his arc is kind of [TS]

  muddy because he starts out as a you [TS]

  know he's this is basically you know [TS]

  intelligence officer / assassin is [TS]

  timeless and he's just like a guy he's [TS]

  there he's getting stuff done but he's [TS]

  not really even though he's committed to [TS]

  the rebellion he doesn't seem like an [TS]

  idealist he seems like the dirty workz [TS]

  guy that you write you called do the [TS]

  dirty jobs and he signed up as committed [TS]

  as far as that goes but he's not really [TS]

  like he doesn't he's not an idealist he [TS]

  doesn't have a lot of hope and I find [TS]

  that I guess you know make sense for his [TS]

  art to sort of go further and sort of [TS]

  redeem his character in that way and it [TS]

  may in certain ways but I didn't fully [TS]

  buy in to his conversion I didn't fully [TS]

  buy into the idea of like they're some [TS]

  people talking about like you know sort [TS]

  of an end justifies the means approach [TS]

  with him and I didn't really feel like [TS]

  there was a reason for him to come to [TS]

  this epiphany like oh man maybe I [TS]

  shouldn't be killing people like they [TS]

  try to [TS]

  pin that all the scene where he's [TS]

  deciding whether or not to kill Galen [TS]

  and I felt that it was a bit weak [TS]

  it just needed to be tightened up for me [TS]

  I think there was too much extraneous [TS]

  and like I said I feel like it just got [TS]

  kinda fuzzy like if you're gonna do that [TS]

  is arcing needed to be a little more [TS]

  beat beat beat rather than just sort of [TS]

  like beat we're so I i liked a lot about [TS]

  it but like I felt that it needed some [TS]

  either some editing or slight tweaking [TS]

  it i reluctantly agree with that it does [TS]

  feel it just wasn't didn't have a Jake's [TS]

  clean edge to it and geeks are you can [TS]

  see what they're trying to go for but it [TS]

  just didn't it didn't grab me to explain [TS]

  later and that there was no good reason [TS]

  given for him not pulling that trigger [TS]

  yeah that's the thing that struck me was [TS]

  like there is no you know you don't see [TS]

  any kind of changing his attitude and [TS]

  you can see what they're going for that [TS]

  were presented with this really hard but [TS]

  an intelligence officer grown down by [TS]

  the awful things he had to do and here [TS]

  comes Jenn who's some Pope is I'm a [TS]

  little butt back towards the light and [TS]

  he starts to have ideas but it didn't [TS]

  really hit hard like that I thought it [TS]

  was partially that he was watching what [TS]

  was going on on that platform and he saw [TS]

  the the you know the shooting all the [TS]

  the scientists and galen basically [TS]

  inserting himself between them him in [TS]

  the scientists and all that and I think [TS]

  he in my headcanon anyway he looked at [TS]

  that scene and thought hmm maybe this [TS]

  isn't a bad guy after all [TS]

  why do I have these orders to shoot [TS]

  maybe so cannon is the best thing Mike [TS]

  my girlfriend a similar feeling of it [TS]

  when we are discussing this afterwards [TS]

  and I kind of see that but also the [TS]

  setup of the scene is a bit contrived [TS]

  and like I can't get a shot [TS]

  oh i guess i have to wait and when he [TS]

  does get his shot is like oh there's [TS]

  other things i'm gonna watch what's [TS]

  going on here you know like again i [TS]

  think it was it felt like a scene you [TS]

  you could feel the writer string is [TS]

  pulling their yeah why do they have [TS]

  their meetings outside that's generally [TS]

  what I'm action from Ella's or force [TS]

  field all roofs the conference room was [TS]

  booked out so they're magic shows a [TS]

  small party in the conference room [TS]

  arsenic is a man [TS]

  you appreciate a dramatic backdrop to [TS]

  his meetings [TS]

  yeah especially when he's gonna shoot [TS]

  everyone yes coming in the pouring rain [TS]

  yeah that was that's just weird [TS]

  welcome to stay on a shallow know that [TS]

  I'm really glad that there's a real hero [TS]

  in Star Wars I find incredibly [TS]

  attractive now because I'm not close [TS]

  before my time and I just I didn't get [TS]

  the put our and thing and if it was ok [TS]

  but giggling I was like okay this is [TS]

  nice this is great but yeah let's watch [TS]

  his his back catalogue that'll be fun [TS]

  well is that a euphemism or take it for [TS]

  what it's worth I felt the same way [TS]

  about felicity jones i never [TS]

  particularly found Carrie Fisher or [TS]

  what's-her-face right you know ray from [TS]

  force awakens they're very pretty but [TS]

  you know they don't want to push my [TS]

  buttons but Felicity Jones oh yes i was [TS]

  going to say about Cassie and what I do [TS]

  like about his character is that I enjoy [TS]

  his somewhat slovenly put my favourite [TS]

  bit with him in the entire films where [TS]

  he dresses up as the imperial officer [TS]

  and still got like his hair is like [TS]

  sticking out the bad least convincing [TS]

  imperial officer ever i was waiting for [TS]

  someone to challenge him and say that's [TS]

  not regulation haircut and i love that [TS]

  he doesn't care right like he's just [TS]

  sort of like whatever I'm just wearing [TS]

  this hat and so I I do appreciate his [TS]

  character [TS]

  I you know and I like the moments where [TS]

  he is good he is very good yes and [TS]

  honestly I i put none of the set his [TS]

  feet as in diego luna speed as an actor [TS]

  I think he is fantastic [TS]

  I just feel like the the writing of some [TS]

  of that characters r-ky wanted a little [TS]

  more like Liz said like a little sharper [TS]

  edge in like a little more definition on [TS]

  saying like okay he's this guy who is [TS]

  this kind of guy but now he's you know [TS]

  changing his opinion now is this kind of [TS]

  guy like I feel like that's fine you can [TS]

  have a Redemption arc but it just needs [TS]

  to be cleaner one but i don't think was [TS]

  an amazing note was one near the very [TS]

  end where he pools jen away from Orson [TS]

  chronixx body so that she doesn't have [TS]

  the chance to finish them off and the [TS]

  fact that he's the one who's doing that [TS]

  too hard time pulling her waist just [TS]

  like commit murders or final act was [TS]

  like that i find that pretty maybe that [TS]

  was good [TS]

  well and when they're having their [TS]

  argument after you know in in the ship [TS]

  and he you can she's doing the kind of [TS]

  worries maybe [TS]

  and I mean that seen that there are [TS]

  elements to it that i found found a bit [TS]

  you know word-of-the-day problematic in [TS]

  the he's kind of gas lighting here at [TS]

  first when he's she's like this is after [TS]

  she realizes that he was about to [TS]

  assassinate her father and she's like [TS]

  you went to companies like oh you're in [TS]

  shock [TS]

  you don't know what you're talking about [TS]

  that's that was a bit like really guys [TS]

  but later in that scene when he's [TS]

  basically saying to a look [TS]

  you're not the only one who lost [TS]

  everything you know you are not that [TS]

  special [TS]

  we've all been in this a long time doing [TS]

  this and we've all lost people that we [TS]

  loved and cared about that he did that [TS]

  so well because it would have been so [TS]

  easy to overdo that so really kinda go [TS]

  huge and chew the scenery and yet just [TS]

  sort of lose the thread of it but I [TS]

  thought he handled that absolutely [TS]

  brilliantly I was utterly convinced why [TS]

  he was great also that was a great line [TS]

  he just managed to get his whole back [TS]

  through your cross in a single line of [TS]

  dialogue and just left it that now that [TS]

  wasn't an expository line I wasn't him [TS]

  saying I've lost everything is well it [TS]

  was him saying you're not the only one [TS]

  who's lost everything [TS]

  brilliant get he said that open doing [TS]

  this since I was 6 which is fairly young [TS]

  for a rebel which is also about the age [TS]

  that Diego Luna started acting in Mexico [TS]

  I believe ok talking about writing and [TS]

  downs right i think i agree with down i [TS]

  should say that the the problems with [TS]

  Cassian you know shouldn't related get [TS]

  your learner's feet and that's what kind [TS]

  of where I wanted to pick up on what you [TS]

  said James about none of the characters [TS]

  with that shallow and I think you're [TS]

  right but I don't think that he's in [TS]

  some instances because the writers like [TS]

  as is written days malbis for example is [TS]

  an incredibly shallow character there's [TS]

  nothing to him but yeah [TS]

  jangan plays him so well that you know [TS]

  when bring so much to the character very [TS]

  kind of transcends the words in the [TS]

  script and that's what you wanted a good [TS]

  actor a good secondary character to [TS]

  write like you don't need to he didn't [TS]

  need to have a we need to have a whole [TS]

  backstory right and we just need some [TS]

  hints of it and i think the really [TS]

  important thing is his release [TS]

  chip with jaret wright and like you see [TS]

  milly interact like shit [TS]

  yeah i was at all that was nice till the [TS]

  line right on my mouth Anthony know I [TS]

  was really wondering usually hang on a [TS]

  second I get this i just thought they [TS]

  were like and monks or something but are [TS]

  they actually a couple during the movie [TS]

  i was i don't i did and yeah so yeah if [TS]

  it was i've already seen the and the [TS]

  images that people have drawn to the [TS]

  desperate yeah yeah I mean it's one of [TS]

  those things that's not explicitly [TS]

  stated but maybe not tonight by anything [TS]

  that contradicted by anything right in [TS]

  the end yeah i did--like i thought that [TS]

  the interactions between the two of them [TS]

  i would easily go for a TV series [TS]

  oh yeah if you want to do a prequel [TS]

  movie for them that because when donnie [TS]

  yen as well done yet the way Diane lick [TS]

  Garrett was great he was so I love the [TS]

  father was smiling all the time because [TS]

  he's a holy man so he's like well [TS]

  everything's gonna be fine because I'm [TS]

  one with the force on the forces with me [TS]

  so I thought that was an interesting way [TS]

  to play but also who is just so [TS]

  sarcastic funny i love the rate when [TS]

  they're putting their bag origines what [TS]

  are you kidding me I'm lying I'm yeah i [TS]

  like the sort of element of Saturn as [TS]

  you have been you know the sort of the [TS]

  blind but still the best swordsman or [TS]

  stickman absolutely and underestimated [TS]

  by the stormtroopers of course [TS]

  yeah yeah and that's yet the first scene [TS]

  where we get his the taste of his [TS]

  abilities is just it's just great [TS]

  choreography it's just a joy to watch [TS]

  you know didn't Donnie and of course is [TS]

  a master martial artist and long-running [TS]

  star and stunt guy and everything and [TS]

  he's just he's fantastic he's so good [TS]

  here I think he's he's my breakout [TS]

  character from this movie audience cause [TS]

  of comic timing was just amazing that [TS]

  was really he could easily carry a [TS]

  comedy movie if he wants to stop our [TS]

  combined martial arts and comedy they [TS]

  work together probably has done several [TS]

  of the movie we just need to go back and [TS]

  look at all his extensive film Arrietty [TS]

  yeah and the ok so and those three [TS]

  characters those three supporting [TS]

  characters but main supporting [TS]

  characters that we've just discussed [TS]

  most interestingly again for Star Wars [TS]

  not one of them had a native English [TS]

  accent either American or British and [TS]

  anyway although and ben mendelsohn is [TS]

  Australian apparently but was doing a [TS]

  dodgy English accent he's been neighbors [TS]

  as every Australian I don't know why he [TS]

  didn't just use natural action because [TS]

  English accent is not all that great but [TS]

  you know now the if the if the Empire [TS]

  the Empire has to be your sort of over [TS]

  how many British accent that will be [TS]

  convincing English accent to me that's [TS]

  what Englander like yeah it didn't it [TS]

  didn't actually send back to me either [TS]

  so maybe people just that are kinda knew [TS]

  that was coming oh but my biggest [TS]

  complaint about ben mendelsohn or they [TS]

  get the crate character of chronic here [TS]

  is that if anything i really enjoyed him [TS]

  he's just hand me enough to eat like to [TS]

  some scenery and be your hottie Imperial [TS]

  bad guy i think the biggest problem i [TS]

  have with him is that they put them and [TS]

  and this is going to be you know the [TS]

  answer we talked about they put them up [TS]

  against Tarkin and it's like do we [TS]

  really need to you know white guys with [TS]

  British accents arguing over hold what [TS]

  you got this latest accident you are [TS]

  doing about things you could've just on [TS]

  one of them [TS]

  yeah yeah well and that's another one [TS]

  thing that will get to after we've [TS]

  discussed the carriages year so well and [TS]

  then there was resentment character [TS]

  Bodyrock the defecting Imperial pilot [TS]

  who is barely in the trailers like I you [TS]

  know I actually seen the trailers I [TS]

  thought oh is one she hardly going to be [TS]

  an easy going to be some background [TS]

  character and he's like he's a you know [TS]

  a pivotal character [TS]

  yeah and he think of all the the [TS]

  supporting characters he got the as [TS]

  where they keep using this pocket the [TS]

  cleanest character are going through [TS]

  there that was a really satisfying way [TS]

  through and then [TS]

  oh the feeling of the lurching and the [TS]

  chest of Michael's death [TS]

  it's really cool you don't realize about [TS]

  your gods are going to kill the ball [TS]

  right he's the he's the coward right so [TS]

  he gets his Redemption our community [TS]

  home and bravery [TS]

  yeah i think the moment that the gym [TS]

  said to him always a casio one of them [TS]

  said says to him keep the engines [TS]

  running your the our only way out of [TS]

  here for the moment they said that was [TS]

  like yeah he's dead now I mean I went [TS]

  into the film thinking that they would [TS]

  probably kill everyone and I think it [TS]

  was only at the point where kate USO [TS]

  bought it and when you became a leaf on [TS]

  the wind for our students acknowledge [TS]

  that that was the point where I thought [TS]

  all right maybe they killed the robot [TS]

  they're gonna kill everyone that was me [TS]

  that was the saddest death for me that [TS]

  was the only 1i really cheered up there [TS]

  it be to be good and I actually in the [TS]

  cinema where I was as warriors like he's [TS]

  a droid but he's lovable really mean way [TS]

  he was like the best supporting [TS]

  character rifle he did get all of the [TS]

  funniest lines it must be sent ya an [TS]

  ally to take is fantastic and gets the [TS]

  note that is that is his sweet spot [TS]

  right there and and his accent actually [TS]

  was really good you know he's I find [TS]

  he's actually more convincing two medals [TS]

  which I didn't expect going in certain [TS]

  over yeah we cater to was you know [TS]

  another in a long line obviously sort of [TS]

  great star wars droid characters but I [TS]

  don't think we've really had a character [TS]

  quite like him with that sort of [TS]

  attitude [TS]

  well I mean is if he's a bit HK 47 from [TS]

  the knights of the old republic game but [TS]

  slightly less murdering easkey 47 and [TS]

  Marvin the Paranoid Android had a child [TS]

  ya might be I think you said that we [TS]

  were discussing the trailers as well [TS]

  because hk417 one of your favorite [TS]

  characters news [TS]

  yes he's very very good and shiny but as [TS]

  as Jim said much more murderous this [TS]

  this one just doesn't have that [TS]

  homicidal streak and the desire to chop [TS]

  meat bags [TS]

  he's gonna chopper a shark attack i [TS]

  think i like that the thing that some [TS]

  top his entire characters when he drops [TS]

  the bag and that was the moment I said [TS]

  yeah I don't care [TS]

  yeah yeah yeahs some of his great large [TS]

  key is very first line [TS]

  congratulations you're being rescued [TS]

  please do not resist i played that PR [TS]

  thing the game because k 2 s.o as a [TS]

  character and I'd heard sort of about 20 [TS]

  minutes of alan tudyk doing lines like [TS]

  notice [TS]

  you do the video games as well well [TS]

  either he does it or somebody who sounds [TS]

  like him doesn't right but it was quite [TS]

  quite similar kind of very droll you [TS]

  know please rescue me like you promised [TS]

  type of lines i like you don't worry two [TS]

  years she shoots the other droid that [TS]

  looks like did you know that wasn't me [TS]

  when you shut it [TS]

  yeah and she has course yeah because [TS]

  he's got like little lines around his [TS]

  arm bits that were a different color I [TS]

  thought I recognized her when she's when [TS]

  he says where'd you get the gun she's [TS]

  not found it and Gators says I find that [TS]

  answer vague and unconvincing I'm here [TS]

  for you jen because cassia's that I have [TS]

  to back so many good lines man i'm going [TS]

  back to just go back to bode rock and [TS]

  resentments character [TS]

  I'll the one thing that like I found [TS]

  really weird about you know it's part [TS]

  and I'm mentioning it because it's part [TS]

  of his character on was that sort of [TS]

  mind flayer creation yeah that I mean he [TS]

  was like that they implied that the [TS]

  thing was going to completely destroy [TS]

  your mind royalty and very active it for [TS]

  a little while for about five seconds [TS]

  until somebody effectively snapped their [TS]

  fingers in front of him and he's fine [TS]

  again and i was wondering if he was like [TS]

  a different character before that point [TS]

  and he would he was now sort of pacified [TS]

  or something or it doesn't seem like it [TS]

  given the scenes we see with him before [TS]

  that like it doesn't seem distinct [TS]

  enough but i think that creature that's [TS]

  like the rathtar seen from this movie [TS]

  like that's the that's the theme would [TS]

  be like okay we really just need to get [TS]

  like a crazy cgi alien in here to just [TS]

  do something funky and work as sort of a [TS]

  plot device but it doesn't it's not a [TS]

  part of this because it doesn't do [TS]

  anything [TS]

  bleep up the purpose of it was to show [TS]

  that soars a little bit more dangerous [TS]

  than everybody else in Ely and mind [TS]

  flying octopuses on and it in our [TS]

  respective worked but then you know he [TS]

  they really hangar lanten when he's [TS]

  making his speech about how this [TS]

  creature and I can't remember what it [TS]

  was called such a ridiculous name but he [TS]

  says this creature will be no be able to [TS]

  tell if you're lying [TS]

  nobody can deceive the creature [TS]

  the only problem is [TS]

  one tends to lose one's mind like [TS]

  they're really hunger landed on it and [TS]

  then there's no effect it has no [TS]

  constantly because he didn't why he [TS]

  didn't get his mind flight and leaf [TS]

  Flay's if you're actively line that's [TS]

  yeah looks a little sloppy and i kinda [TS]

  agree that they seem to be going [TS]

  somewhere you know with it maybe [TS]

  distinguishing songs tactics from the [TS]

  the rebellion as a whole but it if i can [TS]

  say and well maybe we'll get the song in [TS]

  a second but that's I think that's [TS]

  another problematic arc yeah i mean that [TS]

  is I thought that it'd mean I don't know [TS]

  sore from rebels or clone wars or [TS]

  wherever he's from [TS]

  I thought that it did work in that [TS]

  respect yet in sort of showing okay this [TS]

  guy's an extremist and he's prepared to [TS]

  use extreme methods that normally would [TS]

  be beyond the pale I i think it worked [TS]

  in that sense absolutely [TS]

  I did it didn't I onto that entirely i [TS]

  wanted a little more felt like again [TS]

  they didn't necessarily clearly draw [TS]

  that line especially because we're [TS]

  introduced to so much of him before we [TS]

  get the will be portrayal of him from [TS]

  the rebellion as a whole right like [TS]

  we've seen him several times until we [TS]

  get the rebellion saying oh he's an [TS]

  extremist like and it's and it's never [TS]

  clear to me because of especially what [TS]

  we've seen of the rebellion in the [TS]

  original movies like they're still blow [TS]

  itself up like it's not like is this [TS]

  just running on exactly pacifists [TS]

  exactly so it to me that was in a place [TS]

  where they they didn't fully commit to [TS]

  that that our core idea of like there [TS]

  are some rebels who are taking things [TS]

  further and believe you know the ends [TS]

  justify the means or what have you [TS]

  I feel like that could have been done [TS]

  better in and saw as a character maybe [TS]

  they lean a little too heavily on [TS]

  Unknowing he wasn't and even having seen [TS]

  the clone more episodes with him a while [TS]

  back [TS]

  he's not any he's in maybe three or four [TS]

  episodes it's not like he's a major [TS]

  character [TS]

  okay clearly has like a a little bit of [TS]

  an arc within that and and it seems like [TS]

  they're intending to do more with him [TS]

  but it's it's interesting that they [TS]

  decided to go in this direction i feel [TS]

  like because so much of it wasn't I mean [TS]

  they didn't really explain likewise got [TS]

  the whole like breathing apparatus thing [TS]

  like you know [TS]

  what's this replaces his legs you know [TS]

  like it clearly he's been through some [TS]

  stuff but like I don't know it's he [TS]

  feels like a character of mystery and it [TS]

  doesn't really pay off [TS]

  I expected he wouldn't I you know I I [TS]

  thought he was gonna come back from [TS]

  orbit would seem like we haven't really [TS]

  touched on a lot of stuff with him he [TS]

  was the primary character in this that i [TS]

  really felt okay am I missing stuff here [TS]

  because I haven't watched the TV series [TS]

  but it sounds like maybe not then I mean [TS]

  you might miss some ideas like who the [TS]

  background of his character in general [TS]

  but like I don't believe that he I don't [TS]

  believe that the epic his appearances in [TS]

  clone wars are so-so substantive that [TS]

  like that they would explain why he [TS]

  didn't escape [TS]

  yeah exactly i think it and i'm looking [TS]

  now and I think it's like for you he's [TS]

  in like four episodes so it is one Ark [TS]

  basically I mean I took the fact that he [TS]

  didn't escape because you know he did [TS]

  have his breathing apparatus and he [TS]

  didn't have his legs and he was fed up [TS]

  with the whole just go with them know he [TS]

  was just tired you know he does say I'm [TS]

  tired of running and at one point he [TS]

  says to join what does not much of me [TS]

  left so I got that but I just don't know [TS]

  left so I got that but I just don't know [TS]

  I wasn't convinced by it yet that [TS]

  overthrew losing parts of his body being [TS]

  replaced by mechanical stuff and the [TS]

  there was a really long shot that took a [TS]

  while for him to take a breath of his [TS]

  oxygen tank [TS]

  yeah or whatever it was and it seemed to [TS]

  be like they were trying to draw some [TS]

  comparisons their comparison with darth [TS]

  vader here but that never went into [TS]

  anything which annoyed me [TS]

  ok i thought that was the most part of [TS]

  the the side effects on that seem to be [TS]

  echoing that are absolutely yeah yeah [TS]

  yeah but you don't get why why it didn't [TS]

  lay off yes you know why was that there [TS]

  and because they have now killed him [TS]

  there's no sort of you know there's no [TS]

  Avenue to I mean other than flashbacks [TS]

  obviously with students to flight rebels [TS]

  there's no where to find out the answers [TS]

  to that those questions [TS]

  yeah we got the end of that character [TS]

  without really getting and we got the [TS]

  beginning of that character if you watch [TS]

  clone wars but we haven't really got a [TS]

  big middle to that character and that's [TS]

  problematic when you're when you're [TS]

  introducing him as a major pivot point [TS]

  in this movie [TS]

  yeah it's times like that i think back [TS]

  to General Grievous and think probably [TS]

  six better than that haha yeah that's [TS]

  true [TS]

  no bar lisslow bar wow I doll I just [TS]

  raised we completely skipped over the [TS]

  fact there's no fun fair I thought you [TS]

  were doing an automatic thing where we [TS]

  just jump in its just like the movie and [TS]

  you know it hasn't landed in media res [TS]

  yeah there's there's no I mean you yet [TS]

  you get a cold open which star wars does [TS]

  not normally have [TS]

  there's no star wars-themed obviously [TS]

  because i saw movie has its own theme [TS]

  there's no crawl as we predicted in the [TS]

  trailer thing but also the they didn't [TS]

  put star wars anywhere on the title card [TS]

  it literally just says Road one and it's [TS]

  on screen for like three seconds and [TS]

  then it's gone i was super surprised by [TS]

  that i really thought i wasn't really [TS]

  believe there'll be a crawl but I [TS]

  thought they would have done the maybe [TS]

  just the likes of both rebels and [TS]

  claymores has like an abbreviated [TS]

  version of the Star Wars intro and I [TS]

  thought they would have done something [TS]

  like that where they show it briefly or [TS]

  even just do the thing where the they do [TS]

  the outline around rogue one that says [TS]

  like Star Wars like they did for return [TS]

  of the jedi and stuff like that I've [TS]

  ever done that's Randall's on the poster [TS]

  the plan if you look at poster it's got [TS]

  that same thing the outline again around [TS]

  rolling it says a Star Wars story using [TS]

  the towers logo and that [TS]

  kind of unexpected to see on-screen it [TS]

  was really hard thanks to this podcast i [TS]

  developed a detailed pain of the sort of [TS]

  opening and my feelings but scroll they [TS]

  wanted to see and well I that was the [TS]

  important thing for me apparently turned [TS]

  out to be I wanted to go straight into [TS]

  space [TS]

  I want to see a bag a spaceship that's [TS]

  what we got we did although they [TS]

  actually followed you because the first [TS]

  thing we see is not a spaceship each you [TS]

  think it is [TS]

  it's triangular it's coming down from [TS]

  the top of the screen you think oh it's [TS]

  another spaceship like all the other [TS]

  movies and then it turns out to be the [TS]

  rings of the planet it close enough with [TS]

  that ship with a ship flying across them [TS]

  it became it got within the Venn diagram [TS]

  of my expectations [TS]

  I think they just wanted to sort of pull [TS]

  the rug out of you and Gauhar we are a [TS]

  slightly different film oh yeah yeah [TS]

  there's no way that wasn't deliberate [TS]

  because of the way the shadow fall's [TS]

  it's clearly yeah that was not an [TS]

  accident huh yeah very odd but yeah you [TS]

  know they did on that they did for me [TS]

  i'll admit for the first light you know [TS]

  half a second author or just no no it's [TS]

  not it rings and but yeah I wasn't [TS]

  expecting the crawl and obviously I [TS]

  wasn't necessarily expecting the Star [TS]

  Wars theme but I was against surprised [TS]

  that we got so little of a musical theme [TS]

  you know we literally get like about [TS]

  four seconds of the road one theme and [TS]

  then it just goes bang straight back [TS]

  into the movie so I it will talk about [TS]

  the music for taking because i'm a huge [TS]

  fan of the john william scores from the [TS]

  original movies I have them all even the [TS]

  prequels I've listened to the mall [TS]

  numerous times and so I I've already [TS]

  i've listened through wrote one sort of [TS]

  once but i was honored like eight-hour [TS]

  flight so I fell asleep a few times but [TS]

  the the roadway music is a little [TS]

  interesting because so there was a [TS]

  composer attached to this Alexander day [TS]

  spa and he left before the movie came [TS]

  out obviously before he had worked on [TS]

  the score and so he was replaced by a [TS]

  michael giacchino the Aquino who is a [TS]

  one of the club frequent collaborator [TS]

  with JJ Abrams has done a bunch of pixar [TS]

  movies did the John Carter movie didn't [TS]

  star trek reboot student one of the [TS]

  Mission Impossible movie so it's been [TS]

  around he's done a lot of stuff [TS]

  I've never been the biggest fan of his [TS]

  because I think that his scores are [TS]

  sometimes kind of thin and don't rely [TS]

  too much on motif and theme and that's [TS]

  such a big part of star wars that i [TS]

  think it's tough to jump into that and I [TS]

  well I can only imagine that it must be [TS]

  great as a person writing a score to [TS]

  basically have an enormous tool box of [TS]

  like options you know from the many many [TS]

  John Williams motifs that have been [TS]

  around it takes relatively little [TS]

  advantage of them there are some tidbits [TS]

  here and there [TS]

  darth vader's theme from the imperial [TS]

  march and the force team makes a few [TS]

  appearances [TS]

  yeah some of the other musical cues make [TS]

  some appearances but its overall mean it [TS]

  doesn't it doesn't to me sound way too [TS]

  straight up like a star wars score and [TS]

  so that I guess kinda fits with this [TS]

  whole movie you know in some ways like [TS]

  it's clearly a Star Wars movie but [TS]

  they're also distinguishing it from [TS]

  everything that came before I i haven't [TS]

  listened to the score enough to have a [TS]

  strong opinion of it but it is weird [TS]

  that in some ways but it kind of feels [TS]

  like to me is when you watch something [TS]

  that's like a spoof of Star Wars and [TS]

  doesn't have the licensing and they're [TS]

  like let's step into music that kind of [TS]

  sounds like the Star Wars score [TS]

  I felt if anything it got too close [TS]

  without being the star wars score and [TS]

  maybe it should have been more distinct [TS]

  more distinct by but yeah I don't know [TS]

  so I i I'm curious to listen a few more [TS]

  times and see if it grows on the force [TS]

  awakens score definitely grew on me as [TS]

  things went you know I've listened to it [TS]

  a couple of times now the more couple of [TS]

  times actually the road one Sandra and I [TS]

  do like it but I wouldn't that are you [TS]

  still wouldn't actually disagree with [TS]

  what you're saying I think it's not that [TS]

  the road one theme itself which is also [TS]

  the you know the funfair used in the [TS]

  titles that we're for a few seconds he's [TS]

  actually quite good and distinctive like [TS]

  I can you know I can hear it in my head [TS]

  now I remember after having heard a few [TS]

  times its that is good but the rest of [TS]

  it i don't think i could pick out a [TS]

  single note you know as opposed to as [TS]

  you say with Star Wars you've got things [TS]

  like the imperial march the force then [TS]

  the Death Star motif the you know the [TS]

  blockade runner all that the rebel [TS]

  fanfare all that sort of stuff very [TS]

  Connick I mean told her I had to get [TS]

  away from me and part of that is just [TS]

  because we've heard them for so long so [TS]

  many times for so many years whereas [TS]

  this is one [TS]

  movie and you have to assume i'm [TS]

  assuming any way that the the road one [TS]

  theme here which does require a few [TS]

  times throughout the soundtrack is not [TS]

  going to be used anywhere else right so [TS]

  that is you know that's a tall order [TS]

  yep now I i agree it's fun and i will [TS]

  say that the one thing i do enjoy about [TS]

  Michael GTG Aquino is that he his head [TS]

  did I just found out that is actually [TS]

  exist in this movie most of his scores [TS]

  all the track names are puns and plays [TS]

  on words he's very found of doing that [TS]

  and so yeah in this one all the ones in [TS]

  the score i had or just I just like [TS]

  probably normal descriptive names but I [TS]

  looked up on Wikipedia and apparently he [TS]

  has alternate titles for all of them [TS]

  that are all the puns and references in [TS]

  them and so I i do enjoy his puns their [TS]

  projected car serrated last time is [TS]

  called something like a time two Jedi [TS]

  yea even let you live it up jennifer [TS]

  yeah I want to like this guy's meets the [TS]

  school to me it was a bit like movie [TS]

  itself had these extremely obvious [TS]

  Kenya's every now and again where they [TS]

  drop in a bit John Williams although i [TS]

  do it in the movie itself [TS]

  I actually wish they'd used a bit more [TS]

  of that because it felt really odd [TS]

  seeing things like x-wings and the Death [TS]

  Star and Grand Moff Tarkin and stuff and [TS]

  not hearing familiar motifs because it's [TS]

  down says so much of Williams Star Wars [TS]

  score is built around like motives that [TS]

  that was a little bit on i kinda wish [TS]

  they'd put them in to the movie a bit [TS]

  more actually are and I guess that means [TS]

  we have to talk about the the [TS]

  computer-generated elephant in the room [TS]

  just before we get into that are I got [TS]

  lightly well it's the same subject but [TS]

  people keep talking about the to cg [TS]

  characters in the film and complaining [TS]

  or whatever whatever [TS]

  obviously there were three because k2s [TS]

  oh yes is you know I wonder there was [TS]

  more than one more than that because [TS]

  their background cg characters all over [TS]

  the place but in terms of the main [TS]

  characters and you know I didn't think [TS]

  about k2 so for a second but it's an [TS]

  uncanny valley thing right like he's a [TS]

  robot [TS]

  yeah I know but it's just I think that [TS]

  he should give some credit to the people [TS]

  who did that as well before [TS]

  all fair enough we may or may not start [TS]

  complaining about the error because you [TS]

  know he's like there was a lot of shots [TS]

  i noticed where you know the focus [TS]

  changed and it was all completely [TS]

  photo-realistic no I our degree Kate [TS]

  Kate oso was absolutely convincing like [TS]

  one hundred percent i want much like a [TS]

  bb8 in force awakens like a lot of bb-8 [TS]

  in that is not all of it but a lot of [TS]

  bb-8 is computer generated and you know [TS]

  if if I didn't know that in my mind my [TS]

  heart would not know if you even would [TS]

  not see it if you know what I mean the [TS]

  same with k2 I was absolutely you know [TS]

  if I didn't sort of intellectually no [TS]

  more clearly this is a [TS]

  computer-generated character I would one [TS]

  hundred percent believe that there [TS]

  really was a eight-foot tall robot [TS]

  walking around talking because he was [TS]

  completely convincing than kudos to the [TS]

  performances of all the actors dealing [TS]

  with those to IVC and that's not easy as [TS]

  the prequels have showed us and but I [TS]

  mean you know if the human brains weird [TS]

  thing and so we're willing to accept [TS]

  that in place or or something like you [TS]

  know Yoda is a puppet right and like [TS]

  we're willing to buy into all those [TS]

  things in a way that we have a much [TS]

  harder time with when it comes to trying [TS]

  to ape what makes people people [TS]

  yeah well and that is the uncanny valley [TS]

  and humans are hard-wired literally [TS]

  hardwired from birth to recognize human [TS]

  faces you know we are better at [TS]

  recognizing human faces than anything [TS]

  else that we encounter in our lives and [TS]

  so that's why the uncanny valley is [TS]

  there and personally I think it will [TS]

  always be there at least in our [TS]

  lifetimes [TS]

  I because it only takes the slightest [TS]

  imperfection as it were or actually not [TS]

  imperfection that are quite often the [TS]

  problem is a lack of innovations in a [TS]

  computer-generated face for us to go all [TS]

  that's not real [TS]

  yeah i mean what one of the other things [TS]

  that Tarkin was in revenge of the set [TS]

  played by i think a human with we pay [TS]

  grand you have to make him look a bit [TS]

  peter cushing I've been producing but he [TS]

  looked really weird in that as well so [TS]

  you know that this is part of it is that [TS]

  they're making a human but is also part [TS]

  of it is that [TS]

  to make Peter Cushing specific area and [TS]

  then that one that he's not even a major [TS]

  character right now I think it's just [TS]

  like that don't think he says anything I [TS]

  think he just walked in and he also [TS]

  appears in rebels like so you know again [TS]

  you can always look like that guy I [TS]

  think okay but in the voice USA the [TS]

  voice was really good i thought yeah [TS]

  yeah it was it was a really good [TS]

  impersonation but yet the the the [TS]

  well it wasn't just the face that was [TS]

  mean and this is really sort of you know [TS]

  only something that some people you know [TS]

  would notice but I noticed because of my [TS]

  familiarity with this technology and [TS]

  video games his body Lee movement [TS]

  yeah wasn't tired there you know and i [TS]

  know there was a lot of motion capture [TS]

  and it was all modeled on you know a [TS]

  real actor walking around the set but it [TS]

  just wasn't quite right I'm right course [TS]

  yeah facially it just wasn't a hundred [TS]

  percent it was better than layer at the [TS]

  end that was yeah there are but it [TS]

  what frustrates me about it is that a [TS]

  partly I think i actually would have [TS]

  reacted better to it if I had known [TS]

  going in [TS]

  they kept it a secret and if they hadn't [TS]

  i think i actually would have reacted [TS]

  better to it because I'm thinking back [TS]

  to something like the Lord of the Rings [TS]

  and you know golem in that you can tell [TS]

  of course is CGI but we all knew going [TS]

  in that he was CGI and so it wasn't it [TS]

  wasn't like they were trying to fool us [TS]

  in any way I'd heard before happened [TS]

  that he was in it and cgi so I was kind [TS]

  of expecting that and I thought that was [TS]

  the thing that caused me a problem was [TS]

  that it got into it knowing [TS]

  ok so that's the worst of both worlds [TS]

  and yeah that's the side that I was on [TS]

  whereas i avoid spoilers a movie so I [TS]

  went in not knowing the target is going [TS]

  to be like not knowing that the [TS]

  kriec'tik market and I think if I had [TS]

  known beforehand then out of being [TS]

  annoyed and irritated and ranted about [TS]

  it possibly online seeing how dare they [TS]

  possibly think we can copy peter cushing [TS]

  and terrible and awful and a disastrous [TS]

  idea and my reaction where they give on [TS]

  script but it's I would have jumped [TS]

  slightly of my seat [TS]

  add there was a lot of grinning and [TS]

  smiling and being very fully and happy [TS]

  and delighted all my goal but they may [TS]

  feature kish and so yeah I i loved it i [TS]

  mean i know it's flawed i know it's not [TS]

  perfect it's not really Peter Cushing [TS]

  but indications actor my favorite actor [TS]

  and a just it was just it was amazing i [TS]

  loved it it was just so cool i don't [TS]

  care wasn't perfect [TS]

  I guess I kind of end up in the middle [TS]

  which is a like I I feel like there was [TS]

  my biggest problem that was quantity the [TS]

  idea that you know the fact that if [TS]

  you've been in that first seen any [TS]

  screaming reflection then you get the [TS]

  voice and you get his back you know I [TS]

  felt like oh this is just creepy enough [TS]

  to be interesting but that's all you [TS]

  would have needed yeah there's too much [TS]

  more of it and then I got distracted by [TS]

  it my girlfriend afterwards is paused [TS]

  and said he looked like Dobby the [TS]

  house-elf hello there are songs of like [TS]

  close-ups on his face yeah and what [TS]

  you've got to be really confident in [TS]

  your so exactly [TS]

  yeah I was gonna say that's always [TS]

  tricky when your visual effects person [TS]

  i'm sure you want to be like this is so [TS]

  cool we did and I don't want to you know [TS]

  diminish the what they did do because as [TS]

  cgi representations of people went to [TS]

  show it was amazing yeah pretty good and [TS]

  it only suffers mainly from the fact [TS]

  that it's in a live-action film right if [TS]

  you'd seen that in a cutscene in a video [TS]

  game and everybody looked like that [TS]

  you'd be totally Popular's in their mind [TS]

  you he is one of the greatest technology [TS]

  ever seen it's tough because human [TS]

  brains I admire the ambition from going [TS]

  for it in deciding yes we are going to [TS]

  do this would make targeted and took an [TS]

  integral part of this movie and we're [TS]

  going to show what we can do even if [TS]

  it's not perfect and they must have [TS]

  known we were going to get a lot of [TS]

  stick for it and yet the route they went [TS]

  for anyway so I know I kind of admire [TS]

  that [TS]

  then I am aware that if it wasn't like [TS]

  peter cushing if it was I don't know if [TS]

  the decided some of the character played [TS]

  by an actor that can care less about a [TS]

  prophet like that's terrible huh [TS]

  I just don't think they needed a [TS]

  character there they had and mendelssohn [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  you know although would have needed was [TS]

  I they could have been a hologram you [TS]

  know person despite their incredibly [TS]

  advanced technology so I was an [TS]

  undergraduate a terrible quality you [TS]

  know I don't put any money you know all [TS]

  they would have had to do is stick him [TS]

  in a hologram and they could have got [TS]

  away with it i think one hundred percent [TS]

  for the Empire still using CRT's so ya [TS]

  better i like the fact that they brought [TS]

  him in there is something he's an [TS]

  interesting character I always loved [TS]

  Peter Cushing in new hope and I felt [TS]

  like you know it's interesting to have [TS]

  him as a foil there and but it'sit's [TS]

  again part of the one problem with this [TS]

  is we talk about the fan services not [TS]

  just the fanservice so much as the the [TS]

  they're bending over backwards to [TS]

  establish the continuity in ways that [TS]

  they didn't necessarily need to do not [TS]

  and i think that if they wanting to do [TS]

  that is great but at some point I think [TS]

  they felt that they left that let that [TS]

  overwhelm the story this was trying to [TS]

  tell it's a very hard thing to do I part [TS]

  of me i'm curious to know what would [TS]

  happen if they had tried to recast that [TS]

  character and I am aware of the [TS]

  difficulty when you're trying to put it [TS]

  up against the movie that you know [TS]

  already existing takes place basically [TS]

  it's not you know immediately after this [TS]

  right so you can't have him look very [TS]

  different and I ke also just mentioned [TS]

  hard to pin somebody looks like peter [TS]

  cushing can do people always know what [TS]

  you're suggesting recasting I just think [TS]

  they could have written around it [TS]

  yes no I agree they could have written [TS]

  around it it seemed excessive to me but [TS]

  James will give me AKA reason why [TS]

  there's not well know what I was gonna [TS]

  say I actually like the fact that talkin [TS]

  was in it because it gave you the sort [TS]

  of office politics aspect of the movie [TS]

  to a certain extent the fact that target [TS]

  and basically steals the death star of [TS]

  chronic but he you know he spends all [TS]

  his time coming up with it and talking [TS]

  goes oh this actually works i think [TS]

  thatís yeah i don't like that because [TS]

  it sort of it showed the Chronicles and [TS]

  wasn't like that the top of the heap as [TS]

  it were and [TS]

  the you know dude was always a level of [TS]

  management waiting to take credit for [TS]

  his work [TS]

  yeah and I think that as you said you [TS]

  know that the initial scene with him in [TS]

  the reflection and I thought all this is [TS]

  this is clever this is the way they're [TS]

  going to do it you know and we're not [TS]

  going to see him dead on and we're just [TS]

  going to get these glimpses and then he [TS]

  turned around and they don't know then I [TS]

  was like oh so you are going to do but [TS]

  yeah I mean it i think i don't know if [TS]

  it was the if I was just starting to [TS]

  look for flaws and then I could see more [TS]

  floors and I don't know yeah I think [TS]

  that was an issue here [TS]

  I mean there seem to be some people [TS]

  quite a few people I'm hearing some [TS]

  reports of who literally didn't even [TS]

  realize he was a CG character so i think [TS]

  a certain part of this is us you know [TS]

  and nerds like us who talked for two [TS]

  hours about you know what movie are we [TS]

  gonna know is this because we know what [TS]

  CGI is and how this technology works [TS]

  yeah that's communication has been dead [TS]

  for 22 years [TS]

  you're not too hard but I mean it's like [TS]

  you know it's like your relatives who [TS]

  don't know how to operate the TV [TS]

  properly and so they watch everything in [TS]

  widescreen even-even 43 prob'ly motion [TS]

  smoothie yeah and they can't tell the [TS]

  difference they genuinely can't tell the [TS]

  difference because they don't care about [TS]

  that stuff you know and so I i think you [TS]

  know overall it wasn't necessarily the [TS]

  wrong decision for them to do this [TS]

  pushing cgi because clearly a lot of [TS]

  people didn't even realize it was CGI [TS]

  well I mean if they if they have solved [TS]

  it for eighty percent of the population [TS]

  and you know next time they do it [TS]

  ninety percent of the population you [TS]

  know they're heading in the right [TS]

  direction and I think this this is [TS]

  probably the best cgi photo realistic [TS]

  human i've seen and I don't think you [TS]

  should understand that [TS]

  yeah i mean i understand it was [TS]

  enormously expensive process and it [TS]

  would be very difficult for many movies [TS]

  to decide we want to include this Dead [TS]

  actor in it if we got the legal rights [TS]

  and permissions or whatever because it's [TS]

  just didn't have the money to do it [TS]

  but what I one thing I really did [TS]

  appreciate what i really i think that it [TS]

  did I had had the whole and rode one in [TS]

  New Hope arc here it really didn't [TS]

  normal service two targets character to [TS]

  have him being this one where we do get [TS]

  to see him just being his answer to [TS]

  everything [TS]

  the other problem destroy everything and [TS]

  it really added extra nasty got punched [TS]

  when all older on Alderaan isn't like [TS]

  some exceptional thing for him he's been [TS]

  doing this for the past couple of hours [TS]

  this is just his latest thing going on i [TS]

  think it makes his death much more [TS]

  satisfying when you see it as the [TS]

  culmination of you really deserve that [TS]

  target was just one planet if you just [TS]

  got a new toy you know you'd want to i [TS]

  don't know let's see what setting out [TS]

  let's not setting to this now let's turn [TS]

  it up here like you'd say about like how [TS]

  expensive this was Liz but you know [TS]

  these as we all know with computer [TS]

  technology you know like the 20 years [TS]

  ago it was also beyond most movies [TS]

  budgets to do something like Terminator [TS]

  2 now you get that on well doctor who [TS]

  you know that I will also say that all [TS]

  my information regarding it did come [TS]

  from random stuff i was reading on the [TS]

  internet but people be really quite [TS]

  annoyed [TS]

  it's ok it's not sure it was really [TS]

  expensive i'm just saying that you know [TS]

  that get the cost of doing that is gonna [TS]

  come down dramatically in time there are [TS]

  M mean ethical questions here the [TS]

  circumstances were by the used cushion [TS]

  and i understand that in the state of [TS]

  California it's something that there's a [TS]

  70-year something-or-other after an [TS]

  actor's death before you can use their [TS]

  likeness but of course cooking didn't [TS]

  dying call for he died UK so that Lauren [TS]

  doesn't apply to America in the UK [TS]

  there's no there's no rule for right [TS]

  I've ever heard that right about it but [TS]

  that works too but also they're [TS]

  Americans so they don't you care about [TS]

  what are like this we don't have an [TS]

  actual bird i believe a stated law or [TS]

  statutory law about lightness rights in [TS]

  the unit where is in California maybe in [TS]

  the rest of us but certain California [TS]

  that is an actual like on the books [TS]

  there are laws about that sort of thing [TS]

  whereas we [TS]

  just don't have that over here but they [TS]

  didn't seek permission from his estate [TS]

  and a belief state's contractor [TS]

  controlled by his secretary who gave her [TS]

  permission for his personal don't know [TS]

  this matter what and who gave her [TS]

  permission and and apparently left with [TS]

  the dead and were like weeping crying [TS]

  over it [TS]

  yeah it is a woman she said she was [TS]

  overjoyed when she and she was yeah she [TS]

  didn't care about Star Wars itself she [TS]

  would you like to see him on screen yet [TS]

  which reason the question of what would [TS]

  they have done if the state had said no [TS]

  you can't do that terrible idea where [TS]

  they have gone ahead anyway and that [TS]

  would have that would have been out of [TS]

  this but I think that bad PR from that [TS]

  would have been so so bad would have [TS]

  been so enormous that that's the sort of [TS]

  thing where you go yeah it's just right [TS]

  around this you know maybe use voice [TS]

  impersonator to have him off-screen [TS]

  literally just audio you know and and [TS]

  right around the rest of it and have [TS]

  another character because I get on i [TS]

  have to think that yes legally there may [TS]

  have been entitled but once word got out [TS]

  that morning planning to do that the the [TS]

  pl blowback would be immense [TS]

  we have had talking in rebels already so [TS]

  you know the US now it's down to you [TS]

  know lots of lawyers in room saying well [TS]

  you know that's that's what actually [TS]

  animated thing yeah yeah but you're [TS]

  really not the actor but it looks like [TS]

  you know that like button but not photo [TS]

  realistically yeah like him where is [TS]

  this and I think that's the difference [TS]

  is that this literally does look like [TS]

  Peter Cushing but is where I guess is [TS]

  where you draw the line between the two [TS]

  and i think what you know we'll see i'm [TS]

  sure we're going to see cases where you [TS]

  know the estate is held by one person [TS]

  and then the other people like the rest [TS]

  of his family say no don't know there's [TS]

  some one person says yeah do I right [TS]

  let's sell chocolates madre at practice [TS]

  do we want to mention layer yeah there [TS]

  with you know it seems like the other [TS]

  yeah i mean that I i think that was [TS]

  just-- i think that was just a bad idea [TS]

  even if the cgi had been perfect on that [TS]

  when I still think that was a bad idea [TS]

  and that is actually lead into what i [TS]

  was going to follow up with which Daniel [TS]

  what about sort of bending over [TS]

  backwards for continuity I think that [TS]

  final scene did that and when just a [TS]

  little bit too far i agree i I don't I [TS]

  think it's great [TS]

  ya got like there's a line to dry [TS]

  I I thought that you know the I [TS]

  disagreed with because again they did [TS]

  the thing we saw layer from behind and I [TS]

  thought okay they're going to do it you [TS]

  know this way we're not actually going [TS]

  to see you [TS]

  yeah exactly and then we did but leaving [TS]

  that aside I actually like the fact that [TS]

  this because we knew that this was set [TS]

  before and you hope but we didn't know [TS]

  that it was gonna do you know literally [TS]

  that the student or staff here right two [TS]

  minutes before the start of and I [TS]

  actually thought that I I enjoyed that [TS]

  and once I started to see all those [TS]

  those those guys with the funny helmets [TS]

  on your doors look a bit familiar and [TS]

  then they dropped the blockade runner at [TS]

  the bottom I thought okay fine you've [TS]

  earned that go on through it the blood [TS]

  and the work was cool [TS]

  the one thing i will say the one sort of [TS]

  missed opportunity about the scene like [TS]

  if you're gonna do it because that scene [TS]

  is you know total fan service if you're [TS]

  gonna do it well why not go all the way [TS]

  why not go you know full-on cheesy [TS]

  fanservice and when the guy says what's [TS]

  in it one of they sent us why didn't she [TS]

  say [TS]

  a new hope maybe that was their light [TS]

  that was their light allows you to sniff [TS]

  her saying hope right because he says [TS]

  there is she he's our only home but yeah [TS]

  I mean you could have done that and then [TS]

  you could have had you know artoo and [TS]

  c3po roll into the room as well [TS]

  everybody high fives cuz you know well [TS]

  and ok so talking about people who don't [TS]

  sound like they did 40 years ago [TS]

  neither does james earl jones i saw this [TS]

  one talks about the trailer I say got [TS]

  voice all right i'm still terrible he [TS]

  doesn't sound terrible he finds all i'm [TS]

  ok with James Jones and I really like [TS]

  that they they did so just Vader's [TS]

  costume if you watch the read the [TS]

  original trilogy and I'm sure we talked [TS]

  about this in the incompetent episodes [TS]

  it evolves throughout the trilogy and I [TS]

  like that it's just as crappy here as it [TS]

  is in the first movie like his cloak [TS]

  like tied on his you can see the red [TS]

  tint of the goggles [TS]

  yeah his eyes I like I just really [TS]

  enjoyed that they're like we're gonna [TS]

  we're going to slavery it here too we [TS]

  know what his costume looks like in a [TS]

  new hope and it's not what his costume [TS]

  looks like an empire or in return to [TS]

  jedi and we're just gonna do it it [TS]

  looked wrong to me I mean when I love it [TS]

  it's awful but if i love it because it [TS]

  was you know I was seeing it in on an [TS]

  imax screen and like exact detail i was [TS]

  looking at us like it's not really that [TS]

  sort of grange color Roman black looks a [TS]

  bit wider ten-dollar nylon cloak yeah [TS]

  it's great i love it but if they gonna [TS]

  be that slavish as you say to the look [TS]

  of a during a new hope and then you know [TS]

  why not be so sluggish with how he [TS]

  sounds because jim says clouds great [TS]

  maybe don't he's always damaging really [TS]

  threw me out i was just like he doesn't [TS]

  sound the same no of course he doesn't [TS]

  he's 40 years older [TS]

  I can't tell the difference yeah i wanna [TS]

  get back to what Anthony was saying [TS]

  about this being perhaps a little [TS]

  over-the-top and i agree i think some of [TS]

  it for me is pacing you know we get that [TS]

  lovely shot and with gin and Cassie and [TS]

  on the shore and you know all the [TS]

  characters dying and then it feels like [TS]

  there's a day newmont that should be [TS]

  there but it's like five minutes of like [TS]

  let's get your adrenaline pumping [TS]

  instead and so to me the pacing is a [TS]

  little bit off it doesn't it took me a [TS]

  while to track exactly what was [TS]

  happening just like like actually going [TS]

  on because you see the people running to [TS]

  the corridor handing the disk over and [TS]

  like wait these guys look like the brown [TS]

  the block right on her rip [TS]

  we're not on the blockade runner and [TS]

  then they talk about it being the [TS]

  flagship but it looks like a for a [TS]

  second I thought it was coming out of a [TS]

  Star Destroyer and I was just like I was [TS]

  just kind of confused about it and I [TS]

  like how you're really trying to like [TS]

  bring us right up to the doorstep here [TS]

  and and to me it took me out of it a [TS]

  little bit just because i like the idea [TS]

  of it getting to Leia and like but I [TS]

  felt like it didn't need to drag quite [TS]

  as much from New Hope into it as it [TS]

  ended up doing and to me as much as I [TS]

  like to certain individual bits i really [TS]

  enjoy although this contributed to my [TS]

  concern about the darkness of the movie [TS]

  I [TS]

  really enjoyed the term theater scene [TS]

  where he just yeah murders ya got here [TS]

  i'm certainly badass yeah he's like just [TS]

  from the moment when the the lightsaber [TS]

  ignited and let the whole thing in red [TS]

  just clearly were like you know what the [TS]

  entire original trilogy because we [TS]

  didn't have the ability to do this we [TS]

  never really saw Darth Vader like as the [TS]

  element of fear you know it's just a [TS]

  monster that he's supposed to be [TS]

  let's give them a chance to do that and [TS]

  it's a it's a fantastic scene because [TS]

  it's terrifying [TS]

  you know it's like the term watching The [TS]

  Terminator and and but it you know it [TS]

  does feel to me like the pacing is often [TS]

  it's like why are we watching this now I [TS]

  don't know it it didn't quite work for [TS]

  me as much as I like individual elements [TS]

  of it that the only thing that didn't [TS]

  work for me in that scene was I was [TS]

  shouting at the people to hand the disk [TS]

  over at all [TS]

  stop trying to get the door open you're [TS]

  gonna die anyway yeah like all these [TS]

  other people just died to get this [TS]

  discount just handing over you know and [TS]

  you don't give another 30 seconds i [TS]

  agree to James and I was that was my [TS]

  main problems i was i was desiring to [TS]

  throw popcorn screen because they're not [TS]

  like dude you're done for here just if [TS]

  it's not happening you're not getting [TS]

  out of this accept it [TS]

  try and be brave in your final couple of [TS]

  seconds why didn't you invite the email [TS]

  read the last couple of couple minutes I [TS]

  don't know if I i love them i think [TS]

  that's one of the most enjoyable 5-10 [TS]

  minutes that I've ever had at the cinema [TS]

  because each just because of where it [TS]

  was a win against my expectations with a [TS]

  really good way for the end of the movie [TS]

  because you'd expect it [TS]

  the scene on beach they're dead or [TS]

  raequan it's so sad but they didn't stop [TS]

  it kept going and it was really exciting [TS]

  and stuff was happening and people were [TS]

  really terrified and RC got to be [TS]

  ridiculously scary which is just great [TS]

  for this movie showing off what I [TS]

  suppose arguably should be the only [TS]

  Darth Vader seen since the other one [TS]

  didn't really a good of I suppose been [TS]

  removed and made absolutely no [TS]

  difference whatsoever if you didn't want [TS]

  to see lovely lovely james earl jones [TS]

  deliver lines beautifully and not just [TS]

  deliver lines but deliver a really bad [TS]

  dad Joe [TS]

  pun as well but also he did the [TS]

  finger-pointing she's been like that the [TS]

  the standard actor that they used did [TS]

  that finger-pointing is well I guess my [TS]

  old when I saw it I is 30 really is such [TS]

  a Darth Vader move from the original [TS]

  trilogy in a lesser movie you'd be [TS]

  saying things like that rampage just be [TS]

  the entire rest of it worth it because [TS]

  that was amazing [TS]

  there's like these said dude we've got [TS]

  back 45 minute and a half here to make [TS]

  Darth Vader the coolest villain ever all [TS]

  over again [TS]

  whatever you got me and they just put it [TS]

  they just made this & & + techniques [TS]

  that it makes a new hole better because [TS]

  now you've got this is the context for a [TS]

  new hope rather than ok he's quite scary [TS]

  but we've just seen him tear up like [TS]

  dozens of people tearing them down [TS]

  he's really scary now so it's very cool [TS]

  that raises the question maybe I'll take [TS]

  an informal poll from you guys let's say [TS]

  you know this came up when obviously the [TS]

  prequels came out like let's say you've [TS]

  got someone and they've never seen any [TS]

  Star Wars movies small child for example [TS]

  do you start with road one that seems [TS]

  like a god no no these are you guys that [TS]

  was why I've got my niece and nephew [TS]

  just definitely a nice five years old [TS]

  I'm gonna see if I can [TS]

  Oh citizen say so dangerous for now i [TS]

  won i don't see I think it only works [TS]

  for us because we have seen the other [TS]

  one exactly and I think if you started [TS]

  with this it's like why are you showing [TS]

  me these bills for what and not only [TS]

  that but the tonal shift from the show [TS]

  new hope would be so you go into a new [TS]

  hope expecting something really grim and [TS]

  gritty I think you vastly underestimate [TS]

  the flexibility and adaptive miss of a [TS]

  small child's what it doesn't have is to [TS]

  be a small child like that's one example [TS]

  or a slightly larger child's might I saw [TS]

  the original trilogy in the wrong order [TS]

  i saw Jedi first four years years years [TS]

  and I saw Empire and then finally I was [TS]

  like 14 when I saw Star Wars is who did [TS]

  this who did this to you [TS]

  I think Papa do you have their address [TS]

  consulting side must be righted going [TS]

  back to this point about sort of [TS]

  fanservice and stuff the point the thing [TS]

  I wanted to get onto there was that [TS]

  brings us right to the one really big [TS]

  character that we haven't discussed yet [TS]

  and that of course is Galen or so and [TS]

  you know arguably the the entire core of [TS]

  the movie being fanservice in the it's a [TS]

  it explains why the Death Star has this [TS]

  ridiculous fatal floor its design water [TS]

  our thoughts on that well my thought was [TS]

  how does it explain that the next Death [TS]

  Star has an equally love you guys didn't [TS]

  update the plan where they don't know [TS]

  what the Bloods they blew up with it and [TS]

  update the plaid we just got the need [TS]

  for only make you put a copy of that I [TS]

  don't know talking all of the entire [TS]

  data center for the Empire just imagine [TS]

  the IT people going oh god y'all oh god [TS]

  why didn't believe we have let me know [TS]

  that we have the relays and we're gonna [TS]

  put the floor [TS]

  oh my headcanons did got a glaze over [TS]

  these small things the second desktops [TS]

  weakness is completely different to the [TS]

  first anyway so it is clear thank you I [TS]

  mean it's a weakness in defense of the [TS]

  design sections wide enough to five [TS]

  ships through because otherwise if I get [TS]

  into the reactor yeah whole whole new [TS]

  problem going on there [TS]

  I like the fact that they explain the [TS]

  flaw [TS]

  although again it's a little I don't [TS]

  know I again it's a little too [TS]

  convenient for me I I think kayla nurses [TS]

  character in general is kind of slightly [TS]

  problematic or at least just kind of [TS]

  he's a little bezel two-dimensional for [TS]

  me because you know he is sort of he's [TS]

  there to die and to do something heroic [TS]

  in his death and he's the father that [TS]

  must be the impact of the death into the [TS]

  impetus for gin and so I love mads [TS]

  mikkelsen I think he's a great actor [TS]

  I really i do enjoy him but I I felt [TS]

  like there was [TS]

  he's a cipher and he's there for a plot [TS]

  point essentially like I did not find [TS]

  his character particularly engaging and [TS]

  that's that's fine like he's not [TS]

  supposed to be hugely main character [TS]

  whatever and as far as the the weakness [TS]

  goes hey i don't know i can't quite [TS]

  decide if i think it's it's a little too [TS]

  pat or if it's actually a nice addition [TS]

  to the cannon [TS]

  I think my main problem with killer so [TS]

  is [TS]

  I spent the entire time wishing that had [TS]

  been larger area so and they just [TS]

  swapped the mother and father parts [TS]

  right and that to me would have been [TS]

  immensely more satisfying because much [TS]

  as we don't have enough female heroes on [TS]

  screen we have even less mother-daughter [TS]

  relationships and massive issues and [TS]

  complicated things going on on-screen [TS]

  and that would have even if they didn't [TS]

  change anything else i think i would [TS]

  meet up for a lot of the lack of [TS]

  representation of the rest of the movie [TS]

  there is a lot of father stuff going on [TS]

  in Star Wars isn't there another whole [TS]

  lot of mother stuff which is a bit of a [TS]

  show but one of the things that bothered [TS]

  me just from that opening sequence was [TS]

  that didn't seem to have a cuddly [TS]

  stormtrooper told ya [TS]

  and this is this seemed to be a really [TS]

  weird choice for her father yeah it's [TS]

  not there to care for the perp well and [TS]

  also they get that's another thing that [TS]

  they really hungry Lambton on and I [TS]

  thought oh ok well that's going to play [TS]

  out later in the movie and then all they [TS]

  use it for is when the troopers are [TS]

  tracking her into the cave like two [TS]

  minutes later and that's it and we never [TS]

  see it again I felt like it was kind of [TS]

  a tip of the hat to raise brittle pilot [TS]

  doll in episode 7 nom never know but I [TS]

  think again it struck me as just sort of [TS]

  a superfluous weird thing I mean it [TS]

  could have been worse she could have had [TS]

  like a Gungan not something a little [TS]

  more painful the weirdest thing I mean I [TS]

  i agree matchmaker person is great and [TS]

  he performed the character really well [TS]

  even though the character was yet kind [TS]

  of underwritten and had weird [TS]

  motivations and didn't explain myself [TS]

  very well in whatever but it also led to [TS]

  a really strange disconnect the again I [TS]

  sort of only really realized watching it [TS]

  the second time which is does this [TS]

  strange disbelief that this is true [TS]

  because jen is the only one who sees the [TS]

  message and what have you but there's no [TS]

  disbelief that the death star exists why [TS]

  are in the rebels they're all quite [TS]

  prepared to believe that the death star [TS]

  exists even though none of them have [TS]

  seen it but the idea that the might also [TS]

  be a floor in it and the yeah the the [TS]

  chief scientist may have you know [TS]

  actually been a bit of a traitor and put [TS]

  this thing in there they argue about [TS]

  that without ever actually saying do we [TS]

  even know this thing is real [TS]

  I suggest that the confirmation bias [TS]

  therefore they're like yeah we totally [TS]

  believe the Empire with you anything [TS]

  bacon evil and make the biggest weapons [TS]

  ever but we don't believe there be some [TS]

  convenient helping out of us we have a [TS]

  chance to go up against it works really [TS]

  well in that case they should at least [TS]

  believe it's a trap right like you know [TS]

  because that that's a thing that the [TS]

  Emperor would easily do [TS]

  alright so let's let's go to our final [TS]

  thoughts because we are approaching [TS]

  we're already an hour and three-quarters [TS]

  ok I'm get there the I mean the one [TS]

  thing that we have to mention is the [TS]

  line you know this is a rebellion isn't [TS]

  it i repel isn't in there and that is a [TS]

  travesty in my opinion because that is [TS]

  delivered so well in there seen that [TS]

  apparently landed on the cutting-room [TS]

  floor and I thought just was such a [TS]

  great kind of insight into this [TS]

  character and it fit you know she still [TS]

  is that sort of character would have [TS]

  fitted so well I do not understand why [TS]

  that didn't make it in i'm assuming that [TS]

  not like in the blu-ray release but [TS]

  maybe in 10 years from now in the rain [TS]

  that's an ambition in the super solid [TS]

  right we have two weeks so long I mean [TS]

  hopefully we're gonna find out [TS]

  eventually but we have to wait like [TS]

  decade before we get the proper [TS]

  behind-the-scenes interview because they [TS]

  will be the the story of exactly where [TS]

  they were trying to go and whatever a [TS]

  next thing the thing that always moves [TS]

  as i'm sure there was a shot with her [TS]

  liking cuffs in the rebel bakes yes that [TS]

  was just gives the whole different [TS]

  alright soy I wish they'd just tell us [TS]

  what the other direction of yeah well I [TS]

  mean and this is the issue with the [TS]

  reshoots isn't it is that we just don't [TS]

  know we don't know if the reshoots for [TS]

  something that wasn't completely [TS]

  changing separated or just like a real [TS]

  it was just ready gunshots oh yeah what [TS]

  and and i think is it's possibly they [TS]

  felt like that line just didn't fit [TS]

  anymore in the way the conversation [TS]

  plays out and I can kind of see that [TS]

  based on the way they do it but i agree [TS]

  that I was kind of waiting for it and [TS]

  was like 'well what's up guys you had [TS]

  like four things which is all this movie [TS]

  and none of them are in the movie right [TS]

  but definitely gonna watch again because [TS]

  then you're freed yes and you can just [TS]

  enjoy enjoy the film [TS]

  absolutely enjoyed it much more the [TS]

  second time round the first for exactly [TS]

  that reason yeah [TS]

  india has also convinced me I am gonna [TS]

  go blind on trailers from Iran because [TS]

  if they are prepared to mess around with [TS]

  stuff this much you know to sort of put [TS]

  out a trailer and then say oh actually [TS]

  no we're going to cut loads of that [TS]

  stuff out and because we're changing the [TS]

  tenor of the movie we've decided I mean [TS]

  and that's fine you know there's no not [TS]

  saying they shouldn't do that but as a [TS]

  result like it all it did was set me up [TS]

  for disappointment because there's so [TS]

  many things in that trailer that I [TS]

  thought yes yes that looks amazing I [TS]

  can't wait to see that and then never [TS]

  did see it the you know and that's [TS]

  entirely my fault that's entirely on me [TS]

  but yeah as a result so I've decided I'm [TS]

  just gonna go blind on trailers for me [TS]

  and I just I just love trailers so much [TS]

  the only this is the only trailer for a [TS]

  new movie I've watching like six months [TS]

  because it's so difficult for me to get [TS]

  to the cinema that I basically i never [TS]

  see in movies when they come out unless [TS]

  they're Star Wars and and it's it's [TS]

  desperately knowing that is the one [TS]

  trailer that seems to have hit the most [TS]

  or mislead slightly people that this is [TS]

  the one I can't see them doing it again [TS]

  I mean like there's no doubt people of [TS]

  those being probably lots of internal [TS]

  discussions in Lucasfilm about it but [TS]

  you know when the episode 8 trailer hits [TS]

  you know if they do it again in the [TS]

  episode a trailer then yes I'm with you [TS]

  there's stuff in the force awakens [TS]

  trailers that is not in the force and we [TS]

  call that don't don't ruin the film's [TS]

  for me there but they're not huge moment [TS]

  or not are under the reasons as far as [TS]

  we're aware anyway there's nothing in [TS]

  there that was literally created for the [TS]

  trail is knowing full well that it was [TS]

  never going to be in the movie yeah i [TS]

  think they're mostly cutscenes to be [TS]

  fair it's not unusual with trailers for [TS]

  them to occasionally use alternate takes [TS]

  of lines that are more succinctly or to [TS]

  cut bits of dialogue together to make [TS]

  something you know just because [TS]

  obviously you've only got a very few [TS]

  number of seconds integrated to get a [TS]

  story across fine that's that's all well [TS]

  and good but actually creating a whole [TS]

  special effect [TS]

  yeah there is really significant that [TS]

  you know full well he's never going to [TS]

  be in the movie that [TS]

  yeah that's gonna be on the file format [TS]

  the different yes a different thing [TS]

  entirely and a lot of these cases to you [TS]

  know keep in mind trailers obviously [TS]

  come out a year months before movie and [TS]

  sometimes there isn't a final cut locked [TS]

  at that point [TS]

  sure probably usually there is no final [TS]

  cut like that point so there's always [TS]

  going to be some play with what makes it [TS]

  and what doesn't but i agree that [TS]

  creating something whole cloth is is [TS]

  just like it's weird it's weird i think [TS]

  if you can cut an entire trailer out of [TS]

  footage that hasn't been used from other [TS]

  trailers then yeah it's a problem right [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so so here's my [TS]

  final thought as again you know we've [TS]

  never picked it to death but I really [TS]

  really did like this movie a lot and i [TS]

  will see it again and i will be buying [TS]

  the blu-rays and all that sort of stuff [TS]

  and here's the thing more than anything [TS]

  else what this movie makes me want is a [TS]

  live-action TV series about characters [TS]

  like this about the characters on the [TS]

  edges about the rebels and the rogue [TS]

  traders and all the people there aren't [TS]

  the focus of the saga to explore them a [TS]

  little better because but you know a lot [TS]

  of the things that we've talked about it [TS]

  a lot of the Olympics are things that if [TS]

  this was a TV show they would have time [TS]

  to explore all of those things and go [TS]

  into that depth then go into that detail [TS]

  and we would get to know these [TS]

  characters better and I just think you [TS]

  know that would be really good and you [TS]

  know let's say I know we have rebels and [TS]

  clone wars but a lot of people simply [TS]

  will not watch an animated series no [TS]

  matter how good it is the idea of rebels [TS]

  the live-action just like haha that [TS]

  would be even budget was you know TV has [TS]

  the budget for good [TS]

  live-action effects these days they [TS]

  could ok wouldn't be as grand as the [TS]

  fine as the movies no but they could [TS]

  totally pull it off [TS]

  yeah i mean i think the and even if they [TS]

  could only pull off a few big effects [TS]

  shots in an episode and the rest of the [TS]

  time the you know people actually had to [TS]

  talk to each other and have k battlestar [TS]

  galactica yeah yeah except without the [TS]

  end right let's go to lose one of your [TS]

  final words my friend thought I [TS]

  our that I think that Ben Mendelsohn [TS]

  cloak or some critics clock deserves [TS]

  credit / zoo and better- deserves [TS]

  amazing credit for making that clock [TS]

  work for every bit of video space [TS]

  created had I was another concept see [TS]

  right over and moving on the white we [TS]

  have the wires because you got power you [TS]

  cut a great cook seen what were you [TS]

  thinking but luckily there were many [TS]

  other clubs make up for it really was [TS]

  amazing every time he was walking that [TS]

  was an excellent clock [TS]

  well done cost me for that and the other [TS]

  thing I was just loved in this movie was [TS]

  when apparatus the Mon Calamari in [TS]

  charge of the rebel fleet came on and if [TS]

  there's one thing that that was just [TS]

  that was literally just made it feel [TS]

  like proper stars3 I know that obviously [TS]

  I'm star wars movie has a Mon Calamari [TS]

  in charge of the fleet but I want to [TS]

  relax far [TS]

  well I know I don't you should Admiral [TS]

  Ackbar is definitely in my top five star [TS]

  wars characters i love admiral ackbar [TS]

  and I really i'm also exactly the Mon [TS]

  Calamari a kind of hard cool didn't I [TS]

  know it was just I just love i love this [TS]

  Admiral roddis was a worthy predecessor [TS]

  to admiral ackbar and I was I was [TS]

  heartbroken but he stuff that might have [TS]

  been my most emotional day for this big [TS]

  no my well you'll be glad to know Liz [TS]

  that my my first beat ultimate frisbee [TS]

  team that captain is called it's a trap [TS]

  it but i will mention funny my [TS]

  girlfriend really i recognize the actor [TS]

  bridge actor I guess who played the blue [TS]

  leader and she was really upset that he [TS]

  died like she's like I thought his death [TS]

  was totally wrong and totally good [TS]

  totally minor characters and no i really [TS]

  like that guy I felt like his death was [TS]

  under dire like okay I i can't remember [TS]

  his name change what about you [TS]

  well i mean i think i'm curious what's [TS]

  gonna come out of this in the fact that [TS]

  they made what is a pretty dark film and [TS]

  whether tons of children are going to be [TS]

  taken to this and traumatized or if [TS]

  there's gonna be any fallout from that [TS]

  and then they're gonna sort of hastily [TS]

  all the other spin-offs are going to be [TS]

  sort of chirpy upbeat [TS]

  productions but I'm glad that you know [TS]

  we've seen that you know the the [TS]

  spin-offs can be different from the from [TS]

  the main films and you know it sort of [TS]

  makes it open for what we're going to [TS]

  what we could get next I mean I think [TS]

  was it its hands young hand solo I think [TS]

  that's an excellent year which is we [TS]

  know is gonna be probably a another sort [TS]

  of Robbie type thing because i can't [TS]

  imagine it being super serious with [TS]

  Lando and hand I think they've been [TS]

  saying that they're saying that off as [TS]

  kind of a buddy movie yeah yeah so is [TS]

  its get some Bob Hope type you know [TS]

  little romper [TS]

  haha Donald overcast in orlando I [TS]

  imagine there might be much use of comic [TS]

  timing me with hope so yeah so what [TS]

  makes the difference cap or up that [TS]

  one's gonna be presumably light and then [TS]

  after that I think it's both fatal [TS]

  something was a little one of the things [TS]

  they don't have an official marriage [TS]

  yeah I don't know if donors that's [TS]

  official but there was certainly talk [TS]

  about i mean i want to see the you know [TS]

  the you and mcgregor standalone obi-wan [TS]

  obi-wan like sort of middle-aged ob1 as [TS]

  opposed to young or hard drinking and [TS]

  yet even in his cave just this is keeper [TS]

  shielded for de tema de decades it's an [TS]

  it's an art movie i would actually [TS]

  watched acolyte no dialogue but yeah I [TS]

  mean I i think what this film [TS]

  demonstrated was that you can do this [TS]

  and it seems to have made a lot of money [TS]

  at least in the only weekend oh yeah i'm [TS]

  hoping i mean that there is there is a [TS]

  thing that I do fear is that like we are [TS]

  going to get a Star Wars film every year [TS]

  for the rest of our lives of ordinary [TS]

  question i'm ok with it right now sorry [TS]

  okay [TS]

  notebook and at some point you know are [TS]

  we just gonna be like well it's another [TS]

  one of these and now they're doing three [TS]

  of them a year it's not as special but [TS]

  certainly this was special and I enjoyed [TS]

  it and I'm i want to see more [TS]

  yeah i agree that one of the [TS]

  best things to come out of this is the [TS]

  broadening of the pilot because again [TS]

  those of us who've played the computer [TS]

  games the role-playing games that sort [TS]

  of you know you like read the transmedia [TS]

  novels we know that there is scope for [TS]

  more than just the saga style epic you [TS]

  know was traditional star wars stories [TS]

  within this universe and that they can [TS]

  still be really good even though they're [TS]

  very totally different to the main saga [TS]

  movies so I'm glad that this has been [TS]

  successful and I'm glad that he did take [TS]

  quite a different tone maybe not as [TS]

  different as it could have been but [TS]

  still a different enough to yes show [TS]

  that this is a broad church if you like [TS]

  you know this is a broad universe that [TS]

  can accommodate lots of totally [TS]

  different stories that can still feel [TS]

  very much like Star Wars like there was [TS]

  never any question that you are watching [TS]

  a Star Wars movie even when they were in [TS]

  Jade City you know it's still very much [TS]

  felt like a Star Wars movie and I think [TS]

  they pulled it off really well and I [TS]

  hope as you say that they kind of you [TS]

  know going forward that they take that [TS]

  lesson go okay what else can we do let's [TS]

  push the edges a little here and sort of [TS]

  explore all this fertile ground around [TS]

  the central core Star Wars movies [TS]

  yeah i just want to say I agree very [TS]

  much with your feeling about the this [TS]

  opening of a much broader universe and [TS]

  am I personally really looking forward [TS]

  to seeing it again in a theater without [TS]

  subtitles that isn't it doesn't have an [TS]

  intermission have three also which is [TS]

  better right yeah and and I i'm very [TS]

  excited i love the sort of people on a [TS]

  mission movies like guns of navarone and [TS]

  where Eagles dare that kind of thing I [TS]

  think this did a nice job of capturing a [TS]

  lot of the feeling of those and having [TS]

  as someone who's we consume much of the [TS]

  transmedia properties over the years [TS]

  I'm always excited to see new types of [TS]

  stories told would love to see a live [TS]

  action movie thats Sarah live-action TV [TS]

  series somewhere in this vein and [TS]

  frankly you know would like to see some [TS]

  some book you know if anybody if [TS]

  Lucasfilm want a a rogue squadron like [TS]

  some new rogue squadron books i'm [TS]

  available my you can find my agent [TS]

  that's good [TS]

  we could do that but I overall I i [TS]

  enjoyed this a lot i'm looking forward [TS]

  to going back and seeing a second time [TS]

  without is critical and I and I think [TS]

  you know this old this will be a worthy [TS]

  installment and i love the way that [TS]

  kicked off the anthology series and I'm [TS]

  looking forward to more fifth-best [TS]

  styles title right there we go i'll [TS]

  finish with a comment from somebody on [TS]

  John Scalzi this blog discussing the [TS]

  movie he says I'll quote i'm glad that [TS]

  Disney recognizes what Star Wars movies [TS]

  are all about ships ships taking off [TS]

  design through space ships landing there [TS]

  may not be time for character [TS]

  development plot smoothing or even [TS]

  letting someone finish saying something [TS]

  at the end of the scene before the music [TS]

  swells and overpowers the dialogue but [TS]

  by god anytime anyone goes anywhere we [TS]

  will see them bored launch fly land and [TS]

  disembark from their ships every single [TS]

  time that something right about there [TS]

  things will get all right so on that [TS]

  note I thank you to my fellow panelists [TS]

  and rebel podcasters smiles thank you [TS]

  very much thank you James Thompson thank [TS]

  you for being here i can survive in [TS]

  space [TS]

  oh yes well on and dumber and of course [TS]

  thank you for staying awake I i am one [TS]

  with the force and the forces with me [TS]

  also thank you for listening everybody [TS]

  else out there [TS]

  happy holidays because this episode will [TS]

  probably be the last one or one of the [TS]

  last one certainly before the holiday [TS]

  season and of course may the force be [TS]

  with you [TS]