The Incomparable

330: Team Killer Robot

 

  they in turn purple number 330 December [TS]

  2016 welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  uncomfortable i'm your host Jason Steele [TS]

  we are taking we're gonna be really [TS]

  timely this time and talk about a show [TS]

  that just finished its first season this [TS]

  very week as we record this [TS]

  in fact it's just only been a day we're [TS]

  recording this early in the week it is [TS]

  westworld season one on HBO which we've [TS]

  been following rapidly and now I've [TS]

  convened a panel to talk about the first [TS]

  10 episodes that have just spooled out [TS]

  here on HBO [TS]

  joining me to talk about westworld are [TS]

  some familiar faces and some old friends [TS]

  and some new friends [TS]

  so let me introduce them to you Glenn [TS]

  fleischmann uh an old enemy from the [TS]

  past high Glen Jason you don't look like [TS]

  anything to me [TS]

  funny that's weird John Syracuse's also [TS]

  here probably a human you know Jason [TS]

  some people choose to see the ugliness [TS]

  podcast Tony solara skechers Tony how [TS]

  many nerds [TS]

  oh nice Nathan alderman is back with us [TS]

  a veteran TV and and and even the [TS]

  incomparable I think contributor on his [TS]

  second episode i think with us hi Nathan [TS]

  hello Jason you make a terrible human [TS]

  being and I mean that as a compliment [TS]

  very nice and I would be remiss if I did [TS]

  not introduce the other two members of [TS]

  our panel because you could introduce [TS]

  everybody but they are the co-host of [TS]

  our own TV podcasts special westworld [TS]

  segment it is [TS]

  greetings from the uncanny valley Kelly [TS]

  amant is here I Kelly how do battery and [TS]

  Don melton shall we drink to the lady [TS]

  with the white shoes reference [TS]

  acknowledged that's what if you want to [TS]

  dive deep in there are many westworld [TS]

  podcast but i would say the one that you [TS]

  really should be listening to is kelly [TS]

  and Don's podcast because it's great and [TS]

  you'll hear them talk about all sorts of [TS]

  theories and interesting things is gonna [TS]

  be kind of like a high-level overview [TS]

  now that the season is over sort of [TS]

  looking at it and not so much with the [TS]

  theorizing so maybe we'll talk a little [TS]

  bit at the end of that season two but [TS]

  about sort of how this [TS]

  how the show works so it's fascinating [TS]

  because this is a a TV series based on a [TS]

  movie from 1973 that was written and [TS]

  directed by michael crichton and it [TS]

  famously started your Brenner as a man [TS]

  in black but also a robot and and this [TS]

  is a guy I when I heard they were doing [TS]

  this is a series i was a little bit [TS]

  skeptical Osik I you know [TS]

  westworld the kind of cheesy seventies [TS]

  killer robots movie but you know the i [TS]

  was impressed with had the execution [TS]

  from the very beginning it they spent a [TS]

  lot of money on it there's a lot of [TS]

  fantastic actors in it and I I [TS]

  appreciated that they give they had 10 [TS]

  hours to tell this story and so didn't [TS]

  like jump to the killer robots in the [TS]

  first episode which i think i think was [TS]

  nice so let's start there what was [TS]

  everybody's uh if you got anything to [TS]

  say about sort of expectations going in [TS]

  about what you what you really thought [TS]

  you would find in West world i think [TS]

  that might be a good place to start [TS]

  how many of you actually saw the movie [TS]

  in the theaters just are interested in [TS]

  the ancient everyone here done i think [TS]

  you're getting some math there and yeah [TS]

  you know right I didn't see the movie [TS]

  when I was a child on the television [TS]

  device as did i [TS]

  yeah and so I i had i thought oh my god [TS]

  they're gonna make that into it [TS]

  TV show and so my expectations were solo [TS]

  which is probably why i love the show i [TS]

  remember reading the book as a child but [TS]

  I never like I saw the movie on TV in a [TS]

  couple of times and honestly my frame of [TS]

  reference for this was the Simpsons [TS]

  episode where they go to mark where [TS]

  there's a bunch of robots mm systemic [TS]

  you [TS]

  yeah so I sort of remember it from that [TS]

  and going and oh yeah right they were [TS]

  making fun of that movie that starred [TS]

  yul brenner that I remember watching [TS]

  like on a you know on a Sunday when it [TS]

  was raining on the channel that showed [TS]

  old movies on days when it rained in I [TS]

  don't remember the movie very vividly [TS]

  but I remember being interested as I [TS]

  heard the names of the people involved [TS]

  regardless of what it was that they were [TS]

  going to do my expectation was a certain [TS]

  level just based on [TS]

  it's least enjoy its Jonathan Nolan but [TS]

  i'm anthony hopkins in it so like all of [TS]

  those things all of the you know sandy [TS]

  news in it all of these people that I [TS]

  heard were in it [TS]

  I sort of raised those expectations [TS]

  another notch and another notch like [TS]

  whatever the story is that they're [TS]

  telling it's going to be really [TS]

  interesting just based on the writers [TS]

  and actors and what I know of the people [TS]

  of those people now that they're [TS]

  committed to it i don't think i saw the [TS]

  movie maybe I saw bits and pieces of it [TS]

  I kind of vaguely knew the premise I [TS]

  think the only reason i watched it was [TS]

  basically just on pedigree you know I [TS]

  like the actors and the fact that is an [TS]

  HBO show and it looked like it was gonna [TS]

  have a big budget come and when I [TS]

  watched the first episode like they [TS]

  dumped the dump the whole premise on you [TS]

  like it was so clear for episode 1 that [TS]

  whatever whatever big notions I had of [TS]

  the premise this wasn't going to be show [TS]

  we're like you eventually find out that [TS]

  they're robots it's like within 10 [TS]

  minutes like that have an actual [TS]

  voiceover saying here's the deal [TS]

  this park is the people use the rules [TS]

  all Bamako alright well that settles [TS]

  that I was like this is I guess this [TS]

  isn't going to be a show with a lot of [TS]

  reveals I thought so we summer child [TS]

  yeah I kind of thought I i saw what they [TS]

  were going with it by the end of episode [TS]

  one from like but they just dump it [TS]

  dumped all the things that I didn't know [TS]

  about westworld they dumped them in [TS]

  episode 1 and then moved on to all the [TS]

  things that I guess none of us knew [TS]

  about West because I guess if you'd seen [TS]

  the movie like a West theme Bart robots [TS]

  kill humans whatever I mean obviously [TS]

  doing it to human killing part but it [TS]

  doesn't slide died John oh my yeah they [TS]

  spent ten episodes and they didn't [TS]

  really get to the human killing until [TS]

  the very very end so we had an entire [TS]

  season of television of this show [TS]

  telling its story which was not the [TS]

  story of the movie because i'm assuming [TS]

  the story of the movie like you know [TS]

  that the premises of episode one I was [TS]

  looking forward to a reboot because but [TS]

  i didn't think i was like i thought it's [TS]

  an interesting topic will be seen it [TS]

  explored in so many things you know from [TS]

  data and start track 2 million other [TS]

  movies whatever is like will artificial [TS]

  life gain something you know advantage [TS]

  on us and i do not have HBO or did not [TS]

  happen HBO subscription [TS]

  and uh I think you're because it was on [TS]

  HBO is like well it's probably like just [TS]

  red wedding every episode scream bloody [TS]

  gore and violence [TS]

  see all you know basic human emotions [TS]

  explored and you know looking at the [TS]

  actors are like well this could be good [TS]

  but and then I think by episode three or [TS]

  four at the latest update people were [TS]

  raving about this being something very [TS]

  interesting and different than what they [TS]

  expected including people I respect [TS]

  Jason that includes you [TS]

  hi and that's all my god i want me to go [TS]

  ahead without dancing and anyway but I [TS]

  so i actually had HBO now a subscription [TS]

  in order to watch the show so I i bake [TS]

  an additional cash money without with [TS]

  the expectation that it was probably [TS]

  going to be something unexpected and [TS]

  terrific and I had my expectations [TS]

  rewarded [TS]

  I think I knew almost nothing I've been [TS]

  really busy the last couple months and [TS]

  keeps showing up for stuff and it's like [TS]

  I don't know anything about this you [TS]

  know what it's like it's working out [TS]

  great didn't know anything about a rifle [TS]

  i think basically i was told yet so i [TS]

  got jurassic park but with robot Cowboys [TS]

  check it out and that were worked out [TS]

  great hero your are you a host you can [TS]

  bring up with any memory of things [TS]

  oh he's in a reverie now coach got [TS]

  locked in there Jason is the homes i am [TS]

  the host you were the panel is this it [TS]

  should be obvious by now but i'm going [TS]

  to officially below the spoiler horn [TS]

  right here because yeah we're talking [TS]

  about westworld season one the whole [TS]

  thing if you haven't watched it and [TS]

  don't wanna be spoiled why are you [TS]

  listening to this podcast [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  boiler alert some of the characters are [TS]

  robots [TS]

  yeah there are robots and and kill all [TS]

  humans is a thing that can happen with [TS]

  robots sometimes it happens who knows [TS]

  well now that somebody's brought up [TS]

  jurassic park i just want to point out [TS]

  like this was sort of jurassic park 1 [TS]

  point 0 if you think about it where [TS]

  somebody goes and build something great [TS]

  and then the thing that they built as [TS]

  like entertainment and fun turned on [TS]

  them and that that just got refined with [TS]

  dinosaurs in Jurassic Park not too many [TS]

  years after this if my michael crichton [TS]

  timeline is correct [TS]

  I didn't I'd forgotten written westworld [TS]

  until the series came out and actually [TS]

  looked at our saw in the credits like oh [TS]

  yeah this is another iteration of the [TS]

  same idea from him it's exactly the same [TS]

  and several people in the chat room are [TS]

  pointing out michael crichton clearly [TS]

  got left behind by his parents at an [TS]

  amusement park when he was a created [TS]

  something has issues here there are [TS]

  issues that experience with carnies yeah [TS]

  early script for like a rollercoaster [TS]

  eats people and it's just no one would [TS]

  make that show how statement about ya [TS]

  and killer klowns he did that too [TS]

  so this is what worries me about HBO [TS]

  doing this show was i I was just [TS]

  crossing my fingers hoping maybe go past [TS]

  Crichton's themes because Crichton [TS]

  didn't really have a lot of themes other [TS]

  than you know something goes wrong and [TS]

  our about the robots they'll kill you [TS]

  life will find a way LOL robots [TS]

  dinosaurs it's the same thing right for [TS]

  death he also doesn't and it's like well [TS]

  that's pretty boring I think I've i [TS]

  think i've seen that show and I was so [TS]

  blown away when i watch the first [TS]

  episode I was like okay we're done to [TS]

  remember in the movie there is no reason [TS]

  express just all the sudden robot [TS]

  something happens and they just start [TS]

  killing everybody there's no real like [TS]

  there's not even not even the [TS]

  consciousness thing but it's not even [TS]

  like sabotage is like oh these things [TS]

  are so complex that eventually will [TS]

  break down and kill everyone [TS]

  it's actually realistic depiction of [TS]

  software that's almost more legitimate [TS]

  but let's see now it's my whole career [TS]

  right there there's so much of the first [TS]

  episode that you start to think what is [TS]

  the show going to be about because at [TS]

  times I thought this is this is a show [TS]

  that is about what it means to be human [TS]

  there are times when I think that the [TS]

  show is about sort of slavery [TS]

  and.and which is a common theme actually [TS]

  in in robot sort of stories about sort [TS]

  of like whatever point are they are they [TS]

  alive and are you in slaving them and [TS]

  then it'll at another point I thought [TS]

  this is entirely a show about [TS]

  storytelling and and everything in it [TS]

  because you know they are creating this [TS]

  experience in West world and one of the [TS]

  characters is the annoying british [TS]

  writer who you know is really super [TS]

  annoying but to the point where i got [TS]

  annoyed by him and then as time went on [TS]

  I kind of went through the other side to [TS]

  being enjoying how annoying he was yeah [TS]

  and and then of course forward Anthony [TS]

  Hopkins who is working on his new [TS]

  narrative and there's this whole [TS]

  question of like we are we are trying to [TS]

  identify with the characters were seeing [TS]

  but at the same time we're we're very [TS]

  obviously watching characters tell going [TS]

  through a story not just like the show [TS]

  we're watching but inside that they're [TS]

  there is were asked to empathize with [TS]

  these robots but a lot of what we're [TS]

  given by from them is programming it's [TS]

  there it's dead them going through the [TS]

  script and that dishes so it has all [TS]

  these different levels there and um [TS]

  which leads me to my first question for [TS]

  everybody here which is what do you [TS]

  think about I've heard a lot of people [TS]

  say that West world is problematic [TS]

  because they don't they don't feel like [TS]

  they have a connection to the hosts [TS]

  because they're artificial and they're [TS]

  just following a script what knows that [TS]

  how well that's kind of what kind of [TS]

  monsters say that yeah I had more [TS]

  connection to the host and i had to the [TS]

  human characters nearly all of the human [TS]

  characters are super super terrible [TS]

  their selfish scheming horrible lousy [TS]

  people [TS]

  the hosts are sweet and kind and are at [TS]

  least trying to do something well [TS]

  somehow something that someone some more [TS]

  than others that the first episode of [TS]

  the show though like was entirely from [TS]

  the host perspective like that was that [TS]

  was my you know right i'm coming this is [TS]

  going to show my robots eventually [TS]

  they're going to go wrong you know [TS]

  yada yada but the first episode that the [TS]

  pilot is everything about it firm [TS]

  yeah it is from the perspective of the [TS]

  host even when they the show does Little [TS]

  Miss direct and you know as you look at [TS]

  eddie when they talk about [TS]

  newcomers like maybe he's a newcomer [TS]

  know he's always to everybody in that [TS]

  they keep showing you the host the host [TS]

  day the host patterns going to these [TS]

  things [TS]

  how can you not like the show is telling [TS]

  you you need to understand what it's [TS]

  like to be a host your main characters [TS]

  are basically host and everyone you see [TS]

  it looks like an antagonist is a human [TS]

  and ministers episode one that you know [TS]

  obviously the humans come into it more [TS]

  as they go on but from the get go right [TS]

  out the door like Oh instead of this [TS]

  being a show about like Jurassic Park [TS]

  was about humans that have not been no [TS]

  in a park and the dinosaurs are the [TS]

  threat that's a problem and they resolve [TS]

  it [TS]

  spoilers gonna be a human humans parking [TS]

  threats but you're not pathetic towards [TS]

  the dinosaurs your point [TS]

  yeah it looks like they get into a [TS]

  situation where you're like oh our [TS]

  heroes are in danger because the thing [TS]

  that man has made has gone wrong and [TS]

  this one it's over hosts are in danger [TS]

  because they have been made [TS]

  that's what I loved about the first [TS]

  episode they flipped the script on [TS]

  Crichton the original story thank God on [TS]

  craigs original story the man in black [TS]

  is a robot menacing humans you realize [TS]

  as you watch the first episode of the [TS]

  series that this is a show about robots [TS]

  fighting for their lives against humans [TS]

  who are terrorizing that and the man in [TS]

  black is a he literally is a human [TS]

  terrorizing robots in from the very [TS]

  start [TS]

  they set up all these wonderful [TS]

  misdirections to that play out some it [TS]

  takes until episode 10 to do that we [TS]

  assume the man in black is like a [TS]

  perverted sadistic rapist which is true [TS]

  in part but not what we see what we [TS]

  think he's doing to dolores we don't [TS]

  actually know what he does in that bar [TS]

  we don't know what the conversation is [TS]

  or what his behavior is because it's [TS]

  unclear what he wants out of her at that [TS]

  point in his history but there's like so [TS]

  many things into the referees the [TS]

  discussion of robberies which takes [TS]

  these sort of an arc across the whole [TS]

  thing coding errors the the Shakespeare [TS]

  being quoted app the father being [TS]

  replaced kind of showing the fact that [TS]

  even though the hosts have attachments [TS]

  to other people that are clear sort of [TS]

  arise that sets the tone for what [TS]

  happens with made in clinton time later [TS]

  it's pretty even the photograph the [TS]

  photograph showing up i forgot it was in [TS]

  episode one I was just looking at the [TS]

  the rundown and that photograph them [TS]

  becomes you know an arc 2 episode 9 well [TS]

  in the thing that I remember is that [TS]

  when we were when John and I were [TS]

  recording our first episode because we [TS]

  didn't get off the ground until halfway [TS]

  through [TS]

  the season airing so in our first [TS]

  episode when we were talking about [TS]

  episode about westworld episodes one [TS]

  through five one of the things i said at [TS]

  that moment in episode five of those [TS]

  days [TS]

  remember those days i said here's the [TS]

  thing about this show is that the only [TS]

  characters i care about the only [TS]

  characters i care for the only ones I'm [TS]

  invested in our the house except for [TS]

  Bernard haha oh yes I said it I said it [TS]

  out loud and everything Kelly argue with [TS]

  you because the the the other the one [TS]

  human character i had empathy with who [TS]

  turns out is probably human was Ford [TS]

  because I can sort of understand the [TS]

  creator's point of view at the time we [TS]

  weren't sure whether you know he was the [TS]

  kind grandfatherly guy or yeah like you [TS]

  got a victor frankenstein coming up [TS]

  right and it turned out he was pretty [TS]

  much both yes yes he was he was both [TS]

  it's so funny that you know when you [TS]

  think about 135 we haven't seen a whole [TS]

  heck of a lot from him as far as like [TS]

  intent and anything that you could [TS]

  clearly point and go yeah see he's a bad [TS]

  guy or yeah he's a good guy but there [TS]

  really wasn't a lot for as much it was [TS]

  it was funny to me as I started like [TS]

  looking at stuff later that he was [TS]

  always wearing black and white and so it [TS]

  was one of those things where like you [TS]

  couldn't really tell so at that moment [TS]

  we still didn't really know so yeah Dawn [TS]

  was like I sympathize he's a creator [TS]

  I know how that goes i can see sort of [TS]

  standing in those shoes and then we get [TS]

  to the infamous episode 7 and it turns [TS]

  out I was right I was really only simply [TS]

  speak with the and at that point you [TS]

  know it's only been two episodes later [TS]

  and we're all like oh yeah for it is so [TS]

  terrible and then you know from there [TS]

  like just in the second half of the [TS]

  season the journey that you go on as a [TS]

  viewer with what you feel about ford in [TS]

  those last five episodes the back five [TS]

  is intense and the thing that I really [TS]

  liked about unwrapping this show there [TS]

  was a fair amount of payoff for [TS]

  everything but [TS]

  every payoff gave me eight more [TS]

  questions you know or 12 more questions [TS]

  and so I wanted to watch again and watch [TS]

  the more the twisting the payoff right [TS]

  yeah the thing we call recording on our [TS]

  show was we got Noland again and that [TS]

  was certainly true of episode 10 [TS]

  ya know we have sympathy for LC and [TS]

  Stubbs I thought they establish them not [TS]

  is entirely sympathetic but they didn't [TS]

  seem purely awful Stubbs was the cynical [TS]

  guy who kind of kept an eye on the host [TS]

  and we knew that he was advisable [TS]

  because watching that was advisable [TS]

  watching westworld we know stubs will [TS]

  eventually be proven right right like he [TS]

  was right [TS]

  oh yeah they are dangerous and he [TS]

  treated them like dangerous animals like [TS]

  he was in a Jurassic Park and everyone [TS]

  else and his staff did that other [TS]

  incredible shots turns out they went to [TS]

  the Stormtrooper school of marksmanship [TS]

  they have not had a live-fire episode 01 [TS]

  a long time they're real rusty LLC I [TS]

  found sympathetic although creepy like [TS]

  you thought oh this is somebody who sort [TS]

  of enjoy your job gets it isn't [TS]

  dehumanizing and then it's kind of like [TS]

  oh maybe she's alright maybe she [TS]

  whatever but I didn't feel like I feel [TS]

  like they invested both those characters [TS]

  and kind of dropped them along the way I [TS]

  think the reason you didn't empathize [TS]

  with the humans is because the humans to [TS]

  the way i mean it's it's own thing as an [TS]

  accident i think the way that the show [TS]

  is presented for the human characters [TS]

  with the exception of Bernard haha you [TS]

  never you never got to see essentially [TS]

  they're cornerstone they had all these [TS]

  scenes of the host thinking back to [TS]

  pivotal moments in their past life [TS]

  whether our Creator briefly glimpsed are [TS]

  understood or just reflecting the hosts [TS]

  are always reflecting on things even [TS]

  when we just saw the hosts going through [TS]

  loops it's like that we would imagine [TS]

  they're reflecting on their past time [TS]

  through the loop or whatever humans are [TS]

  always doing something in the moment and [TS]

  you were never seen like you never got [TS]

  to see into the humans called surely you [TS]

  know Elsie has a cornerstone or an [TS]

  equivalent like to do with all [TS]

  characters on television but you only [TS]

  ever saw in the moment doing a thing it [TS]

  was fun she's on an adventure to salute [TS]

  she's trying to figure stuff out she's [TS]

  got spunk know she's she is a she is a [TS]

  skeptical when other people are trusting [TS]

  she doesn't really trust what Ford is [TS]

  doing well as Bernard seems for some [TS]

  strange reason to be you know pretty [TS]

  obedient to forward right and so we root [TS]

  for her but she's like a character on [TS]

  like you know i don't know like when [TS]

  NCIS or something right [TS]

  they have plot points that they go [TS]

  through and they have personality traits [TS]

  but we never see their inner world will [TS]

  never understand that the thing they're [TS]

  doing related somehow to you know a [TS]

  recent breakup or think they don't like [TS]

  about themselves or whatever and in a [TS]

  show where that's right there on the [TS]

  page like jason said about storytelling [TS]

  you can't help but think that it's [TS]

  intentional for us not to know that the [TS]

  cornerstones of the humans with the [TS]

  exception maybe a little bit of forward [TS]

  we get to see a little bit of that I [TS]

  actually have a theory about why LC and [TS]

  stubs are more sympathetic [TS]

  I think one of the things this show is [TS]

  about among the bajillion thinks the [TS]

  show is about is it's a critique of the [TS]

  entitled rich studies have found in the [TS]

  real world that the richer you get the [TS]

  less empathetic you are because the less [TS]

  you rely on other people and the more [TS]

  you see them is either you know [TS]

  employees or commodities or placings and [TS]

  that's what you see in West world you [TS]

  see this whole park setup where rich [TS]

  people can come in and do whatever they [TS]

  want with no consequences which is sort [TS]

  of like the real world there's no [TS]

  relevance to I 16 to any of this [TS]

  obviously bank world was not as popular [TS]

  but yea similar setup that's why do you [TS]

  need that we already have that [TS]

  confidence that we live so you started [TS]

  writing this year before reality for ya [TS]

  pan out John pan out for the richer the [TS]

  characters are the more powerful they [TS]

  are the more horrible they are ya for [TS]

  the men in black you know they have a [TS]

  couple of glimmers of redeeming [TS]

  qualities but those guys are straight-up [TS]

  monsters and now i can talk more about [TS]

  that later [TS]

  the farther down you go on the ladder [TS]

  the the more sympathetic the characters [TS]

  become Stubbs is just a guy doing his [TS]

  job he's not particularly sadistic he's [TS]

  even somewhat respectful the the scene [TS]

  where clementines programmed to start [TS]

  killing folks and he asked to go put her [TS]

  down [TS]

  he's trying not to shoot her at first [TS]

  he's not doesn't just walk in and be [TS]

  like boom [TS]

  oh she's dead and in the kindest human [TS]

  being in the show is just that lowly [TS]

  tech in the body shop who doesn't even [TS]

  really want to dominate robots he the [TS]

  thing he wants to do is fix a bird and [TS]

  finally finally we're talking about the [TS]

  two stars of the show you [TS]

  listen services a what about Sylvester [TS]

  he's in that he's the lowest-ranked that [TS]

  we see of employees in in West world and [TS]

  he is not a nice person so I added that [TS]

  is true [TS]

  a friend of mine twitter said she was in [TS]

  think that's my episode 5 she said I'm [TS]

  standing to the asian-american was [TS]

  saying I'm getting a little tired of the [TS]

  show being white people yelling at [TS]

  people of color and i was like i'm [TS]

  hoping hoping hoping they're setting us [TS]

  up for reversal and Sylvester was one [TS]

  people she's referring to is like him [TS]

  yelling at and like brow being that guy [TS]

  and I'm like well I guess it kind of got [TS]

  reversed on [TS]

  yeah i really enjoyed the two of them [TS]

  because I sort of liked I liked finding [TS]

  out that the corporation itself has [TS]

  people who work for it on sort of lower [TS]

  levels you know that are not executives [TS]

  like the grunts you know I've spent a [TS]

  lot of my professional career as sort of [TS]

  one of those people on the front lines [TS]

  of technical support on the front lines [TS]

  of bug testing things like that and so [TS]

  it was sort of nice to see that you're [TS]

  going to portray a corporation to me but [TS]

  you're not gonna just show me the people [TS]

  on mahogany row you're gonna show me [TS]

  some of the day-to-day folks who like go [TS]

  home and have a beer with their buddies [TS]

  and you know over there dollar pbr's [TS]

  they whine about their jobs because [TS]

  their jobs suck you know in whatever way [TS]

  that is so it was nice to me to see sort [TS]

  of regular people i guess because I sort [TS]

  of had a hard time relating to a lot of [TS]

  the higher-level corporate intrigue like [TS]

  Charlotte and the board and forward and [TS]

  even Bernard a little bit and Teresa [TS]

  because like I'm not that person I don't [TS]

  move in that world I never had the [TS]

  office upstairs [TS]

  Kelly can I ask you a question what you [TS]

  thought about ford's office in that [TS]

  context because it was magnificent [TS]

  but it was somewhere underground we [TS]

  don't know how many levels deep and he [TS]

  went away from he could have obviously [TS]

  had an office it was in the top of the [TS]

  Mason seen his creation all the time he [TS]

  didn't even have any like holographic [TS]

  display stuff it was all very analog in [TS]

  his office what do you think about that [TS]

  relative to that theory [TS]

  well what I liked about seeing that in [TS]

  the fact that to me what it showed was [TS]

  that he was sort of sentimental because [TS]

  I sort of assumed his office was kind of [TS]

  on the part of the same structure that [TS]

  we see initially you know the cold [TS]

  storage where the cooling is failed and [TS]

  like everything sort of wet and dark in [TS]

  my mind [TS]

  his office is not far from the place in [TS]

  cold storage where we find him having to [TS]

  drink with old building episode 1 as [TS]

  they drink to the lady with the white [TS]

  shoes and so I serve for me that felt [TS]

  like one of the things that you can [TS]

  point out as he's a good guy because he [TS]

  didn't ever bother to move upstairs when [TS]

  they went when they assume expanded at [TS]

  some point and you know the building got [TS]

  taller or you know any of that stuff [TS]

  like he stayed sort of down there where [TS]

  it started and he doesn't have any of [TS]

  that stuff in his office like I you know [TS]

  he literally is giving Bernard the scoop [TS]

  on Arnold at one point as he stands in [TS]

  front of a chalkboard that's written on [TS]

  with like recent stuff because like the [TS]

  reverie stuff is like mapped out in a [TS]

  flow chart on a chalkboard in this in [TS]

  this world where I'm sure everyone of us [TS]

  at one point we were one of those [TS]

  computers that unfolds when I take it [TS]

  out of my pocket [TS]

  you know I know Don and I talked about [TS]

  that like every single yeah good i'm [TS]

  gonna have cracked a provision crisis [TS]

  right now that you could be yeah yeah [TS]

  you don't even have to try very hard [TS]

  apparently being around a lot of [TS]

  development centers and and things like [TS]

  that in the software world his office to [TS]

  me you know just reeks of being a nerd i [TS]

  mean the things he had around him [TS]

  the fact that there were no windows and [TS]

  blade has a lot of like museum quality [TS]

  to it right like it's there all this in [TS]

  it [TS]

  the other thing is I get the feeling [TS]

  that I mean he obviously spent a decent [TS]

  i'm walking around with supervising the [TS]

  work that's being done but I feel like [TS]

  the storytellers for westworld third in [TS]

  the in the park probably wouldn't super [TS]

  enjoy like walking around or observing [TS]

  remotely what the guests are doing [TS]

  because it's basically like their [TS]

  stories get fouled up like you know some [TS]

  eighty percent of the time because you [TS]

  know that the guest is new in town and [TS]

  they want to shoot somebody instead of [TS]

  talking to them and finding out what [TS]

  their quest is it going on the story [TS]

  that would be really frustrating just [TS]

  like probably you don't want to uh sit [TS]

  and watch people use software that you [TS]

  developed because you get really [TS]

  frustrated with an efficient they would [TS]

  be all that is so true [TS]

  you have not be the the writer as [TS]

  annoying is that writer is you know [TS]

  there's some let's talk about the we are [TS]

  already sorted into it the the computer [TS]

  aspect of it the behind-the-scenes [TS]

  aspect of which i kinda wasn't expecting [TS]

  I thought that would be much more kind [TS]

  of finessed of like well suffice to say [TS]

  it's magic happens but instead we see [TS]

  them talking we see Bernard and LC [TS]

  talking about it we see the the writer [TS]

  least Sizemore whine about it and he [TS]

  says at one point in a conversation with [TS]

  maybe Teresa where he talks about how I [TS]

  come up with these great things and then [TS]

  you know I have to do all these [TS]

  different branches and I thought that [TS]

  was really interesting about them [TS]

  talking about like how do you script [TS]

  this world they didn't they they they [TS]

  gave it more attention it's not like [TS]

  they explained all of how it works but [TS]

  they gave him more attention than I [TS]

  expected and I thought it was really [TS]

  interesting to see that that aspect of [TS]

  it you know be the the branching of the [TS]

  dialogue when we see into into the mind [TS]

  of the host and how they have their [TS]

  conversations and how their scripts for [TS]

  that and the people who are working on [TS]

  the software patches the fact that we've [TS]

  got this idea of like rolling people [TS]

  back to a previous version is all this [TS]

  kind of like software terminology that's [TS]

  happening about the minds of the host I [TS]

  i really love that aspect and that was a [TS]

  real surprise to me that that we spent a [TS]

  lot of time with sort of the technology [TS]

  of the mind and the scripting of [TS]

  Westworld unlike most sci-fi shows that [TS]

  do AI they didn't it wasn't like you [TS]

  know like how 9000 or were fascinated by [TS]

  the idea that machines can think instead [TS]

  all the computer stuff [TS]

  well a blessedly was far future enough [TS]

  where we can just we can we have a lot [TS]

  of it is Magic as well like they're [TS]

  super advanced right but be it was [TS]

  treated as game development if you know [TS]

  anything my game development we were [TS]

  talking like a bunch of game together [TS]

  it's not like a bunch of people building [TS]

  how 9000 it's all about you know grew in [TS]

  your story lines versus player action [TS]

  versus liking the resilient tweaking [TS]

  parameters and letting them go through [TS]

  these game loops like and which is a [TS]

  refreshing change because normally [TS]

  anything having to do with thinking [TS]

  computers it's all about deep thoughts [TS]

  about how these computer there's plenty [TS]

  of that in West world to but totally the [TS]

  people running the show [TS]

  there there it's a game their game [TS]

  developers yeah I had a lot of red dead [TS]

  redemption fields while watching [TS]

  uh-huh no man in black is bored because [TS]

  he's played every every inch of the game [TS]

  yeah trying to get he's trying to [TS]

  collect all the gyms now right to get [TS]

  his bonus he's basically been using [TS]

  cheat codes right and then he wants to [TS]

  play the real game that's actually gonna [TS]

  be hard for him and the poor rider like [TS]

  when you got the new speech for the [TS]

  protector to give at the end of the [TS]

  thing and it's like when you have a game [TS]

  and this be and this is a big cut scene [TS]

  and you walk away from it like an [TS]

  open-world game you walk outside the [TS]

  audio radius and it's like and now i'm [TS]

  not interested in the writers like but [TS]

  but this is the pivotal moment ago and [TS]

  over here and dig in the dirt help [TS]

  actually John something that you [TS]

  mentioned that i wanted to i want to rip [TS]

  on a little bit is I think you could [TS]

  argue and and nobody's gonna argue that [TS]

  the hosts are not emerging into being [TS]

  thinking beings of some kind of at least [TS]

  i think very few people would argue that [TS]

  because what are we watching otherwise [TS]

  but what I like about the show is that [TS]

  it challenges your assumptions all the [TS]

  way through episode 10 about whether the [TS]

  hosts whether everything the host do is [TS]

  emergent and because they're free [TS]

  thinkers or whether they are they are [TS]

  operating on their programming and the [TS]

  example in episode 10 is that Maeve is [TS]

  shown a script that she's been given [TS]

  that describes her rebellion and in the [TS]

  sequences of it and highways at several [TS]

  points have houston we have moments like [TS]

  that right where you're like wait a [TS]

  second so our am I seeing the legitimate [TS]

  person who is emerging from this this [TS]

  host or is this part of the script and [TS]

  right down to the fact that the uprising [TS]

  has revealed at the end of episode 10 by [TS]

  Ford is his new narrative it's like a [TS]

  wait a second are the uprising because [TS]

  he's giving the ability for them to [TS]

  repeal or they are the rising up because [TS]

  he written a rebellion well it is there [TS]

  really a difference like that's the i [TS]

  know right the question wasn't really [TS]

  difference but like they do they do [TS]

  highlighted the very end with Maeve they [TS]

  I mean like the show the show is a [TS]

  remarkable to me in the number of times [TS]

  that it puts legit solid non misleading [TS]

  information in the show like episodes [TS]

  and episodes ahead like 56 episodes as [TS]

  they don't put just like vague hints [TS]

  that you can just go back and and see [TS]

  all I see how that connect [TS]

  they put like actual real information [TS]

  actionable information that's why the [TS]

  whole internet figured out so many [TS]

  things yes and so on episode 10 they do [TS]

  that thing oh may be surprised to see [TS]

  that are all escape has been planned [TS]

  right but in that scene they purposely [TS]

  tell you into this unit you recruit the [TS]

  people you get you're gonna get on the [TS]

  train and when you get to the mainland [TS]

  yada yada yada and she cuts them off and [TS]

  then they show her at the end she [TS]

  deviates from that is exactly right the [TS]

  script was you get on the train and so [TS]

  the show is very explicitly saying even [TS]

  though [TS]

  yeah the reveal here is that everything [TS]

  has been planned [TS]

  we're going to show you except for the [TS]

  last part where maybe it's something [TS]

  different and you may think oh that [TS]

  means maybe is deciding on her own but [TS]

  like every single other story in the [TS]

  park it can be interrupted by the human [TS]

  players and so Felix gives her a note [TS]

  and she decides to get off the train [TS]

  just like Hector getting shot in the [TS]

  head before I can give a speech I want [TS]

  to talk a second about about this notion [TS]

  that the telling stories because i took [TS]

  a there's something more dangerous and [TS]

  someone takes a meditation class I [TS]

  realize what a good insight meditation [TS]

  class few years ago and one of the [TS]

  things the instructor talked about a lot [TS]

  was stories we tell ourselves about what [TS]

  we're doing that our stories we layer on [TS]

  top of the don't necessary have a direct [TS]

  relationship what we're doing but we [TS]

  tell ourselves they do and I've been [TS]

  watching the show and local a Nolan [TS]

  enjoyed maybe their insight meditation [TS]

  people because they're talking from that [TS]

  book but be a lot of it is about the [TS]

  story the man in black and it's all [TS]

  stories we tell ourselves with the exact [TS]

  notion that the host when I saw me when [TS]

  she's watching her words play out in [TS]

  front of her as she's saying them all [TS]

  mine to that error state i thought this [TS]

  is exactly the breaking out of the [TS]

  monkey mind thing that they talk about [TS]

  meditation about getting the monkey mind [TS]

  to stop talking at you so you can [TS]

  achieve higher insight and stop telling [TS]

  these stories about yourself and it was [TS]

  just it was beautifully exploded there [TS]

  without adding two they didn't have [TS]

  someone coming to well meditation human [TS]

  not like I'm doing right now [TS]

  they let us explore and see that yeah [TS]

  it's it's interesting to see the man in [TS]

  black and forward and the stories they [TS]

  tell themselves and how that conflicts [TS]

  with the story you can see in them for [TS]

  his is a spoiled child who who doesn't [TS]

  want anyone else playing with his toys & [TS]

  and that was what I took from his the [TS]

  final rebellion he clearly knew the [TS]

  board was trying to force them out he [TS]

  clearly knew he only had [TS]

  so much time so my view of the ending is [TS]

  that he basically is like well if I [TS]

  can't have this you can either so I'm [TS]

  going to smash all my toys & and use [TS]

  them to hurt you because that was that [TS]

  was his childhood but he was a toning I [TS]

  mean like it there so dangle laughs I [TS]

  don't know I know she was telling I [TS]

  think he was telling himself he was a [TS]

  toning he he knew he had to be the [TS]

  monster to get his creations to the the [TS]

  point of true consciousness and he had [TS]

  to pay for that I think he thought he [TS]

  was atoning I think that's what he told [TS]

  himself but really he just wanted to be [TS]

  in control he didn't want his creations [TS]

  to really get to the point of full [TS]

  consciousness on their own [TS]

  he wanted to be the one who gave them [TS]

  that gift so that he could go out as as [TS]

  God as the guy calling the shots [TS]

  controlling the story i'm with Nathan [TS]

  and same with the man in black the men [TS]

  in black says you know I was trying to [TS]

  get them to fight back he he thinks of [TS]

  himself as this hero who is giving this [TS]

  great gift to the robots he is by [TS]

  brutally torturing them for his own sick [TS]

  jollies he is actually liberating them [TS]

  but no he's just a scorned adolescence [TS]

  hehe thinks when he was William he [TS]

  thought that Delores was his prize that [TS]

  if he won westworld Dolores would be his [TS]

  prize and then he realized she wasn't [TS]

  his prize that she you know maybe she [TS]

  wasn't autonomous but she didn't belong [TS]

  to him and he got angry and he started [TS]

  taking that on dolores and everyone [TS]

  around him just like you see with a lot [TS]

  of 20-something gamers and so he's [TS]

  basically just acting out and all of his [TS]

  board meanderings around the park and [TS]

  torturing people and blowing stuff up [TS]

  it's just him throwing a fit for all the [TS]

  rest of his life because he wanted the [TS]

  shiny woman prize and he didn't get it [TS]

  that's my theory i'm with you on the man [TS]

  in black but anybody with for like man [TS]

  Michael example is absolutely what they [TS]

  want his stories the stories telling [TS]

  himself what we see him doing and I [TS]

  think he took turns too much on a [TS]

  diamond a few places we don't get it [TS]

  developed enough because they're too [TS]

  busy hiding twist for most diseases and [TS]

  put forward I really believe that put [TS]

  the way Anthony Hopkins plated and the [TS]

  few things he has that that he his he [TS]

  was sincerely motor the story tell [TS]

  himself is the average story it's the [TS]

  story of [TS]

  a man who has done terrible things he [TS]

  does not think much of himself but [TS]

  nevertheless still believes and actually [TS]

  is smarter than most everyone around him [TS]

  bringing a plan to fruition to both [TS]

  atone for his past sins and right his [TS]

  wrongs and tried with some finality to [TS]

  you know he's got he gets got the blood [TS]

  sacrifice [TS]

  he's setting the stage for all the [TS]

  things that he's done wrong to correct [TS]

  themselves and everything he says in the [TS]

  show I I'm i think he believes about how [TS]

  the hostess and humans are really no [TS]

  different from each other and when he [TS]

  said give that speech that somewhere in [TS]

  the middle it's like you think he's [TS]

  saying it to show how little he thinks [TS]

  of humans but by the end you realize he [TS]

  should say to say how much he thinks of [TS]

  hosts in fact when he says that they're [TS]

  better it's not a sarcastic evil thing [TS]

  to put down humans he really believes it [TS]

  so I'm with you man with lieutenant [TS]

  green I take forward to face value [TS]

  that's fair enough [TS]

  I like that there's debt ambiguity there [TS]

  that I can have my interpretation and [TS]

  you can have yours and yours sounds just [TS]

  as valid to me as mine so I like that [TS]

  about the show for me there's a piece of [TS]

  it that we don't that we we haven't even [TS]

  considered at least even on the show [TS]

  anyway um and that is I sort of felt [TS]

  like at once and now that we know what [TS]

  happened to Arnold not Bernard but [TS]

  Arnold now that we know what happened to [TS]

  Arnold we've seen the ending of that [TS]

  story I feel like this was almost make [TS]

  him trying to give a gift back to Arnold [TS]

  because remember our gave him a gift of [TS]

  here is your family like the the best [TS]

  moment your you have and and you know [TS]

  i'm gonna give you I'm going to preserve [TS]

  that moment for you i'm gonna put it [TS]

  right here in the park in a little house [TS]

  and nobody's gonna be able to tell and [TS]

  and we'll make sure it's like this [TS]

  little secret I built you a dad that you [TS]

  remember or whatever and then I feel [TS]

  like a little bit like he you know [TS]

  because he mentioned a few times like [TS]

  Arnold came to feel the way you did [TS]

  Arnold came at this from a different way [TS]

  whatever and I think that that he is [TS]

  sort of trying to atone to Arnold I feel [TS]

  like he feels like he needs to do it in [TS]

  Arnolds name almost that he needs to be [TS]

  able to do this [TS]

  sort of settle what he believes to be [TS]

  the score that he has with Arnold and [TS]

  sort of tried to to you know get the red [TS]

  out of his ledger [TS]

  so I to me that was that was more what [TS]

  it felt like was that that was the [TS]

  humanitarian piece of it the piece of [TS]

  humanity within for that we hadn't seen [TS]

  was how truly profoundly he had been [TS]

  affected by Arnold dying i like um when [TS]

  Nathan said about how you can really [TS]

  interpret this either way and I'm struck [TS]

  by something John said which is that he [TS]

  he thinks that you know forward this is [TS]

  what forward believes and I think that's [TS]

  right i think he does believe it i'm not [TS]

  sure if that's actually the case and [TS]

  that it isn't you know he that's the [TS]

  story he tells himself when he's still [TS]

  just kind of being a jerk who wants to [TS]

  have complete control over everything [TS]

  that jerk and he likes best thing people [TS]

  but I believe it too like I believe it [TS]

  basically he's he strikes me as sad [TS]

  throughout the whole series that he is [TS]

  not you know lording it over to people [TS]

  and being smarter and controlling the [TS]

  whole time he doesn't like who he is or [TS]

  how things have turned out and he is sad [TS]

  i think I'm team Nathan on this but I [TS]

  want to go to Tony because Tony Tony [TS]

  proclaimed his his being on underneath [TS]

  inside on forward here to Tony I I mean [TS]

  maybe I can just never be sympathetic to [TS]

  eat you know rich white powerful [TS]

  industrialist guy who I I almost going [TS]

  to say evil in there I guess that's the [TS]

  contention is is he evil or not but I [TS]

  mean I guess it depends on how you read [TS]

  his his last scene there but I mean I [TS]

  mean I just see it is the culmination of [TS]

  him basically setting into motion his [TS]

  own pretentious suicide where he even [TS]

  gives the speech about how the the [TS]

  composer's that did that don't really [TS]

  die because they live on in their music [TS]

  and he's like and I'm going to live on [TS]

  in my killer robot is his speech it [TS]

  gives it a title right he's got a title [TS]

  for it and is a press conference at the [TS]

  beach why does he have to do all that [TS]

  yeah if he is not a warped and twisted [TS]

  self-absorbed you know [TS]

  yeah I I mean and and I guess that the [TS]

  the question is is what stuff is is all [TS]

  I'm interested to know what will happen [TS]

  at the start of season 2 in terms of [TS]

  what will give us information about how [TS]

  what stuff is things that are eggs [TS]

  actually as he laid them out versus [TS]

  actual freedom that he is granted [TS]

  because that's that's still the question [TS]

  to me is how much what I mean is there [TS]

  actual of any freedom here or is [TS]

  everybody just doing things that he has [TS]

  set in motion I'm gonna bring up [TS]

  something that John staircases said [TS]

  that's relevant but very briefly which [TS]

  is just like John said they laid into [TS]

  any breadcrumbs where we could see them [TS]

  it wasn't you know they were barely know [TS]

  there's all over the lawn and we have to [TS]

  figure out which they are we saw [TS]

  forwards family right we sighs house we [TS]

  saw him as a young man we saw his [TS]

  abusive father we saw forward tell [TS]

  Bernard that he'd sort of toned father [TS]

  down like out of kindness Arnold had [TS]

  made the father not quite as bad as he [TS]

  well that's right so like so many things [TS]

  we seat for is reliving his childhood [TS]

  like how much time you spend in that [TS]

  ecology seems to be there a lot its kind [TS]

  of creepy right and we know that there's [TS]

  the basement lab but he's constantly are [TS]

  constantly on some matter reliving in [TS]

  arnold at some level made a trap for [TS]

  Ford by building for his childhood and [TS]

  not allowing foot forward ever destroy [TS]

  his childhood not really for it is a [TS]

  fascinating character right i mean that [TS]

  that's the bottom line here is these [TS]

  complex in it we can question his [TS]

  motivations right to the end of his last [TS]

  gesture for me having a front-row seat [TS]

  at the fort of our generation [TS]

  steve jobs that there were a lot of [TS]

  things that reminds me a lot of essays [TS]

  last year you know when he knew that he [TS]

  was going to go [TS]

  it was very very striking me people you [TS]

  know you look at some things on the [TS]

  surface of what they do and they seem [TS]

  selfish and self-serving and they might [TS]

  seem grandiose but in the end they [TS]

  really are done for the right reasons [TS]

  and so i will give Ford a pass just for [TS]

  that last half an hour he had on earth [TS]

  of doing the right thing so but but it [TS]

  released it really hit home with me and [TS]

  a very very personal note there of of [TS]

  having the opportunity a couple times to [TS]

  be up close to people like that [TS]

  let's not go too far with the right [TS]

  things he did send a what it seems like [TS]

  a large number of killer robots and [TS]

  different people so you [TS]

  angel like writing for the end he he did [TS]

  he did have a woman murdered several [TS]

  episodes earlier to make sure that [TS]

  nothing got his way sending like an army [TS]

  of killer Roman tell us about apple [TS]

  products on this is just and again not [TS]

  too far off from some of the flowers [TS]

  well we're all gonna get killed our way [TS]

  those top 100 meetings are must've been [TS]

  rough [TS]

  you have no idea that you have to answer [TS]

  this question if we ask it how many [TS]

  killer robots you have in your house [TS]

  right now around just blink once if [TS]

  there are more than one [TS]

  yeah all right Don his team killer robot [TS]

  it's good to know that that's important [TS]

  to establish know that the the thing is [TS]

  you have to ask yourself about the you [TS]

  know the sort of theme of the end of the [TS]

  whole show is that the robot who becomes [TS]

  finally self where and listens to her [TS]

  own inner voice and her own inner voices [TS]

  telling her to be a homicidal mainline [TS]

  that's a pretty pretty funny you know [TS]

  journey she's got Y and mixed in there [TS]

  too it's it's a heavy stew [TS]

  yes toxic else do and i wanted to a new [TS]

  shift gears a little bit and talk about [TS]

  one of the other I mean it's an HBO show [TS]

  right so you can know you can get a lot [TS]

  of violence you can get a lot of [TS]

  language and you can get a lot of nudity [TS]

  now [TS]

  westworld has a lot of nudity but what's [TS]

  fascinating about it is it is mostly yet [TS]

  on like robots that are nude and in the [TS]

  repair shop in the blue corner office [TS]

  cold blue lighting and stuff like that [TS]

  and and you know the nudity in West [TS]

  world starts out you may be asking [TS]

  yourself like oh well it's HBO of course [TS]

  there's gonna be nudity and very rapidly [TS]

  becomes a fascinating choice of how they [TS]

  did depicted I wanted to know if Nathan [TS]

  said that he wanted to talk about it [TS]

  Nathan you have something you'd like to [TS]

  say about this one when you go into an [TS]

  HBO show you expect naked ladies you [TS]

  expect a lot of naked ladies and you [TS]

  expect them to be very very naked and i [TS]

  love that westworld inverts that I love [TS]

  that westworld after the first few [TS]

  episodes whenever you there's a naked [TS]

  lady in a scene [TS]

  chances are she is the most powerful and [TS]

  dangerous person in the room maybe [TS]

  sitting there and whenever you know [TS]

  maybe can be perfectly naked and Felix [TS]

  and Sylvester can be there and [TS]

  ostensibly they're the technicians and [TS]

  they have all the power but it is [TS]

  clear from her body language from her an [TS]

  effect and from the way they react or [TS]

  May has all the power and then you get I [TS]

  forget her name but ingrid bolso a bear [TS]

  doll that awesome awesome ingrid bolso [TS]

  bear doll whose name I'm probably [TS]

  mangling armistice right Armus Armus [TS]

  yeah yeah when she's completely naked [TS]

  and beating the only living crud out of [TS]

  multiple technicians and deservedly so [TS]

  and then is doing those countless tiny [TS]

  hilarious things like poking at Felix's [TS]

  hair curiously or things like that and [TS]

  is just absolutely terrifying they make [TS]

  a point that you can't treat these women [TS]

  like eye candy there not there for you [TS]

  to ogle at its not sexualize duty in [TS]

  other words exactly one of the things I [TS]

  liked about it was that it seemed a [TS]

  little more fair i have sat through more [TS]

  than my share of topless ladies on HBO [TS]

  shows [TS]

  yeah and so it was nice to see them [TS]

  dudes that weren't wearing any clothes [TS]

  mostly let you know straight up in the [TS]

  interest of fairness it was because [TS]

  particularly the way they were handling [TS]

  the nudity it wasn't sexy it wasn't [TS]

  naughty time it wasn't pants-off [TS]

  dance-off it wasn't anything like fun [TS]

  it was just like they're naked so you [TS]

  can tell they're the they're the robots [TS]

  yeah it's a power hitter for you know so [TS]

  it stands to reason that there are gonna [TS]

  be some guy robots and it stands to [TS]

  reason that if you make them all be [TS]

  naked when they're in the shop so to [TS]

  speak [TS]

  this is what you know you're gonna see [TS]

  some so I liked it for being realistic [TS]

  in that way and pharmacists gate had by [TS]

  the way that my favorite moment in [TS]

  episode 10 and it was when she gets the [TS]

  automatic weapon and she laughs that [TS]

  laugh oh yeah she laughed a laugh of [TS]

  such joy and love i hope i have ever in [TS]

  my life like anything that much and [TS]

  enjoyed it because boy did she enjoy you [TS]

  did enjoy shooting helps keeps losing [TS]

  off it was awesome to watch her enjoy it [TS]

  wasn't like I i wasn't really jazzed [TS]

  about her like killing all those people [TS]

  but it was pretty amazing to watch her [TS]

  enjoy the way that she did but the the [TS]

  dehumanization was interesting too [TS]

  because forwards insistence the I [TS]

  thought when the show started at [TS]

  this is creepy that they're always [TS]

  having all the hosts naked they don't [TS]

  always seem to be prodding them and then [TS]

  that scene was in the episode three or [TS]

  four the scary surprise yet Ford turns [TS]

  the technicians the middle of something [TS]

  else returns and why do you have quite a [TS]

  covered you know and they take the [TS]

  exacto knife or scalpel and slams [TS]

  graphic designer investment exactly and [TS]

  slashing his face and I thought it was [TS]

  the most unkind most demeaning thing [TS]

  we've seen forward do because he had a [TS]

  certain amount of respect yes because [TS]

  you're respected at that point you think [TS]

  he respects them as as a work that he's [TS]

  created and you know I respect him as a [TS]

  piece of craft and I was horrified by [TS]

  that I'm not sure that scene worked for [TS]

  me in terms of his character but i think [TS]

  i'm still integrating what it means but [TS]

  they that I thought we were this is this [TS]

  is nolan enjoy making us collaborators [TS]

  we're watching a show about extensible [TS]

  robots for watching the nudity were [TS]

  uncomfortable with that we have a proxy [TS]

  was also uncomfortable with it he covers [TS]

  and forces no no it's not that easy [TS]

  pulling the cover way you viewer have to [TS]

  watch this now complicit in what we're [TS]

  doing here [TS]

  yeah the meta storytelling in the show I [TS]

  was awesome [TS]

  it's a show about writing a shadow yeah [TS]

  yeah it clearly clearly at several [TS]

  points is and you know right and you end [TS]

  up with like a play within a play [TS]

  because westworld kind of a play within [TS]

  a play but then we find out that you [TS]

  know the plot of the show westworld is [TS]

  kind of a play within a play itself [TS]

  which is great and and there's the [TS]

  question of I mean not not to get into [TS]

  free will or something like that you can [TS]

  listen to John podcast with Merlin when [TS]

  they talk about that but the idea of of [TS]

  scripted reactions and that question of [TS]

  like is this a natural reaction is the [TS]

  scripted reaction and doesn't matter and [TS]

  are they making decisions and it yes so [TS]

  much of it is very meta and very [TS]

  carefully considered I like that about [TS]

  it's like you can be met but I felt like [TS]

  every move that the show made was very [TS]

  seriously thought out in advance and [TS]

  made knowingly which isn't always the [TS]

  case [TS]

  yes it's so weird a show that has about [TS]

  that's the edge TV show any kind of a [TS]

  writer who is unsympathetic for some [TS]

  reason in Sizemore gets so forward is [TS]

  the sympathetic writer but then we have [TS]

  all these complicated feelings about him [TS]

  Sizemore is [TS]

  the unsympathetic later we eat the sky [TS]

  sympathetic busy so human though [TS]

  yes his concerns are so Petty and so [TS]

  it's such a such a small scale they're [TS]

  really important to him but we're [TS]

  watching the show were like dude you're [TS]

  not even in the game you're just down [TS]

  there complaining about you know [TS]

  honestly and red river he's got his own [TS]

  little corner for it is the showrunner [TS]

  and Sizemore is the staff writer right [TS]

  that's what I just about because because [TS]

  because I Sizemore thinks he is the [TS]

  showrunner but likes it forward for it [TS]

  is the writer of the series that we [TS]

  watch the video you're watching me and I [TS]

  realized that Ford has plotted out the [TS]

  entire first season we don't we don't [TS]

  know that we're watching it but in the [TS]

  end the story that we see is for the [TS]

  most part his story and then the other [TS]

  writer is writing these little [TS]

  adventures that the humans are doing in [TS]

  their parking getting all cranky about [TS]

  it and angling for positions in his [TS]

  corporate world that's totally not gonna [TS]

  matter although it's nice that he lives [TS]

  because he's down there in the empty [TS]

  seller looking for the robots that [TS]

  aren't there other than everyone else is [TS]

  gonna get shot by the robots [TS]

  yeah this all these ideas are going to [TS]

  opens up his idea fault they're all gone [TS]

  yeah what one of the moments that [TS]

  Sizemore gets there at the end I thought [TS]

  I'd that it's easy to miss is that [TS]

  there's a so there's a lot of threads [TS]

  that are dangling that are going to be [TS]

  presumably resolved in season 2 or at [TS]

  least continued in season two one of [TS]

  them is this idea that the board knowing [TS]

  that they're going to fire forward is [TS]

  trying to get the source code basically [TS]

  the park out before forward can wreck it [TS]

  and they stow it in a in a host who's in [TS]

  cold storage so and Sizemore supposed to [TS]

  get him to it [TS]

  he's programmed him to behave kind of [TS]

  like a regular person to get them on the [TS]

  train out of out of and ironically of [TS]

  course there is a host on the train it's [TS]

  not this guy but he goes there and find [TS]

  there's just that one shot of going and [TS]

  opening cold storage and finding there's [TS]

  nothing inside and he goes what and [TS]

  that's it wouldn't Sizemore or Charlotte [TS]

  Gail know that if you do that with a [TS]

  host they would explode the the sixth [TS]

  cervical vertebra would explode i'm [TS]

  gonna make a trip that part out or [TS]

  deactivated I mean they have all the [TS]

  tools together the people the body shop [TS]

  maybe the only way they can do is make a [TS]

  new one without that vertebrae but the [TS]

  people who run the show so i can disable [TS]

  it and even if it does blow up then they [TS]

  can still just take the brain that [TS]

  that right yeah where he only needs to [TS]

  make it to the train like we don't know [TS]

  you know or HQ or whatever like we don't [TS]

  we don't know exactly what you are this [TS]

  is the kind of crap you have to do you [TS]

  you have to do when you can't find a USB [TS]

  Drive see that's what security have a [TS]

  thumbdrive need all head pops off and [TS]

  there's a USB part of the better [TS]

  question is the host that they chose to [TS]

  be the flash drive is Abernathy prime [TS]

  yeah the first Dolores is dad that we [TS]

  see on the show you what the first one [TS]

  to break the one who finds the picture [TS]

  of who I presume grew up to be Williams [TS]

  white have science and so we get 2 [TS]

  episode 9 where Bernard explains that [TS]

  they put Clementine in storage but that [TS]

  they didn't fix anything when they put [TS]

  her there so she still has the [TS]

  capability to pull the trigger and do [TS]

  some damage if he gives her the high [TS]

  sign right and I wondered if Abernathy [TS]

  prime was in the same position and maybe [TS]

  they picked like the worst possible [TS]

  hosting cold storage to be the guy [TS]

  because we know you know we know that [TS]

  any host can go at any moment and we [TS]

  know he was like in the show order he [TS]

  was the first one to go and he used to [TS]

  play a psychotic desert leader earlier [TS]

  play yeah the leader of the cannibal [TS]

  cult is law of conservation of [TS]

  characters though I mean they're not [TS]

  going to have one of the extras be the [TS]

  one that they put the secret plans in [TS]

  right [TS]

  I thought that Maeve maybe it's somehow [TS]

  they had chosen made and they were using [TS]

  her to smuggle stuff out [TS]

  oh yeah at a certain point though you [TS]

  figured ellis got to realize for its [TS]

  plan is not to destroy all the source [TS]

  codes are all efforts to smuggle her out [TS]

  of stupid yeah we find out what for the [TS]

  actual plans which is way worse for them [TS]

  this knowledge of partying right like we [TS]

  thought he was going to lead us or [TS]

  something oh he's gonna kill us all the [TS]

  robots that's ok we'll always have [TS]

  samurai world [TS]

  yep yeah i was saying about the casting [TS]

  call though for the cold-storage like [TS]

  okay we need to come out to be naked [TS]

  I assume some of that might be CGI of [TS]

  course EG but we would be naked standing [TS]

  in a cult-like dark [TS]

  dark warehouse standing in water for [TS]

  probably several hours a day for a [TS]

  couple weeks we need you to stand in a [TS]

  puddle in the dark under the least [TS]

  flattering possible lading like all day [TS]

  it's worth lunch will be provided and [TS]

  don't move [TS]

  yeah and I guarantee ya they had people [TS]

  standing in line and returned away from [TS]

  the job that absolutely they were you [TS]

  were talking earlier about the the meta [TS]

  aspect of the show and when the board is [TS]

  talking about about taking over for its [TS]

  narrative they're like you know don't [TS]

  make it too complex kind of just [TS]

  simplify it make it more entertaining [TS]

  for people i'm thinking Jonathan Nolan [TS]

  is flashing back to his time on person [TS]

  of interest isn't even this is what [TS]

  executives say right I've got some notes [TS]

  they say i would also like to say I [TS]

  think that this is also a show about [TS]

  watching television [TS]

  I think I know that the whole point of [TS]

  the thing is the maze and the man in [TS]

  black is pursuing the maze he's looking [TS]

  for that trick he's looking for the [TS]

  reveal that the twist in the game and [TS]

  people keep telling him it's not for you [TS]

  that's not the point of the game for you [TS]

  and he doesn't get that is how many [TS]

  times he told that on the show like 900 [TS]

  times and he never gets a terroristic [TS]

  skull exactly you a way to you saying [TS]

  amazing for me [TS]

  mm we think on this and so everyone is [TS]

  well he's rich so he thinks everything [TS]

  is for him whether people tell me those [TS]

  aren't things for him yeah Nathan you [TS]

  need to go until all the people and read [TS]

  at the story yes exactly and that's the [TS]

  thing i got all the people on reddit all [TS]

  the theorizing I've seen you know is [TS]

  Bernard android what what is the role of [TS]

  the ghost nation are there multiple [TS]

  timelines is William the men in black [TS]

  Jonathan Nolan must have anticipated [TS]

  that at least enjoy must have [TS]

  anticipated that and I think they put in [TS]

  the maze to say guys guys [TS]

  you're missing the point it's not about [TS]

  the twist it's not about the tricks [TS]

  it's about the search for consciousness [TS]

  that's what the shows about the tricks [TS]

  and things are just window dressing and [TS]

  i love that aspect yeah but though the [TS]

  sling people along that way this is a [TS]

  show that that sort of forces you to [TS]

  take it seriously in forces you to pay [TS]

  attention and presumes that you have a [TS]

  certain level of understanding and [TS]

  comprehension whatever that is because [TS]

  for me what was really great about it [TS]

  was that I was forced to pay attention [TS]

  and I don't watch a whole lot of [TS]

  television because I [TS]

  don't like TV where you tell me what's [TS]

  going to happen for the next hour in the [TS]

  first five minutes of the show and I [TS]

  don't want to see it coming and in fact [TS]

  like the only way I want to see it [TS]

  coming is when i see it coming about 90 [TS]

  seconds before it actually shows up like [TS]

  I was gone last night when we recorded [TS]

  our initial reaction show our quick [TS]

  initial reaction show 4 episode 10 which [TS]

  was 45 minutes [TS]

  um that when you know that the train has [TS]

  left the station [TS]

  you seem that happen and now you see a [TS]

  car stopped on the tracks you know [TS]

  waiting for the light to change or [TS]

  whatever when you know those two things [TS]

  and now the tension is oh god I know all [TS]

  of this what's gonna happen [TS]

  that's the kind of show i like to watch [TS]

  and so for me it was really exciting to [TS]

  see somebody put out this intelligent [TS]

  show and go it's intelligent and we're [TS]

  gonna leave a little breadcrumbs about [TS]

  other stuff that's gonna happen and [TS]

  maybe you'll catch them and maybe you [TS]

  want and I really liked how they kept [TS]

  everybody up to speed [TS]

  even when you know even on like you know [TS]

  reddit had figured it out already or [TS]

  whatever um being able to make sure that [TS]

  people who weren't paying attention to [TS]

  message boards and people who don't read [TS]

  all the theory stuff were capped engaged [TS]

  and yet also people who did go through [TS]

  her eyes about all that stuff and did [TS]

  you know think about it in their spare [TS]

  time and randomly text at nerd retired [TS]

  friends of theirs who don't have [TS]

  anything else to do and say you know I [TS]

  was talking about this and what happens [TS]

  if that happens [TS]

  hey you know I've heard um like those [TS]

  are the kind of things that i really [TS]

  enjoyed about this show because i really [TS]

  liked that they were sort of upfront [TS]

  about being an intelligent pieces of [TS]

  cinema for me because that's what it is [TS]

  and i really enjoyed getting to watch it [TS]

  i also love that it was all those things [TS]

  and it was just a great western [TS]

  westworld gives good Western you've got [TS]

  Indian attacks you've got an armored [TS]

  train you've got robberies and twists [TS]

  and shootouts that amazing sequence with [TS]

  the men in black tied up to his horse [TS]

  and having to cut himself free before [TS]

  the horse hangs in there i just love [TS]

  that it was a satisfying Western in [TS]

  addition to being all those other thing [TS]

  so I I want to talk a little bit about [TS]

  expectations for season two but before [TS]

  we get there there's one other point [TS]

  that I wanted to to have us well on for [TS]

  a moment which is the cast because there [TS]

  are some people we haven't even talked [TS]

  about we've talked about Anthony Hopkins [TS]

  who does a great job and Harris is the [TS]

  man in black and jimmi simpson as his [TS]

  younger counterpart is an interesting [TS]

  character but also evan rachel wood is [TS]

  Dolores we haven't really talked about [TS]

  it all and and thandie newton as maid [TS]

  who initially you think it's going to be [TS]

  kind of part of the part of the ensemble [TS]

  and then becomes pivotal as the time [TS]

  goes on [TS]

  jeffrey wright james marsden it's such a [TS]

  great cast the woman whose whose name I [TS]

  can't pronounce who plays Teresa is also [TS]

  really interesting actress [TS]

  it's just it's an amazing cast of people [TS]

  what is so good I almost don't single [TS]

  her out because her performance is so [TS]

  perfect that it's it's funny it's like [TS]

  part of the it's such an integral part [TS]

  of the show she almost doesn't stand out [TS]

  for a good she is [TS]

  yeah there's there are no weak links in [TS]

  this cast i was really surprised [TS]

  pleasantly by tested thompson who had [TS]

  heard about but hadn't seen before and [TS]

  then Jeffrey right i mean this is a man [TS]

  who can steal the scene right out from [TS]

  under al pacino if you've ever seen that [TS]

  angels in america he he wipes the plot [TS]

  the floor with Al Pacino in a monologue [TS]

  that once you've seen it you'll never [TS]

  forget it [TS]

  I'd watch jeffrey wright read the phone [TS]

  book and if you've got to have somebody [TS]

  to stand up to anthony hopkins you get [TS]

  Jeffrey right thing he has a heart for [TS]

  the record jeffrey wright is playing [TS]

  essentially the same character I think [TS]

  he was playing in source code but it's a [TS]

  good character and I liked that movie so [TS]

  it's fine i saw jeffrey wright with [TS]

  glasses on and I'm like oh I get it I [TS]

  get what he's doing here and there was [TS]

  way more there that's exactly what I [TS]

  thought when I first night it's the same [TS]

  thing it's like I'm sort of in charge of [TS]

  people who are technical and there's a [TS]

  secret and like a yeah okay I've seen [TS]

  Jeff reading this before but he's he's [TS]

  really good [TS]

  the person who really surprised me and I [TS]

  just didn't know she was that good [TS]

  actress was because I know Tandy Newton [TS]

  is a great actress you seem crash or [TS]

  something like that but Evan Rachel Wood [TS]

  yeah who knew [TS]

  yes she could do that oh my god that [TS]

  last scene where she's talking to why it [TS]

  and it's just two completely different [TS]

  people who happen to be the same actress [TS]

  that [TS]

  that's Tatiana maslany level stuff right [TS]

  there [TS]

  oh yeah just to get you creeping up over [TS]

  the back of your chair [TS]

  I mean I expect great performances from [TS]

  anthony hopkins and Ed Harris and even [TS]

  people like jamie Simpson you know [TS]

  because they there are no names but [TS]

  unless you've seen across the universe [TS]

  and maybe a few weird commercials here [TS]

  and there you've never seen Rachel evan [TS]

  rachel wood [TS]

  no I never had expectations / because i [TS]

  don't think that senior anything before [TS]

  so she just seemed like an expected [TS]

  level of phenomenal yeah it was [TS]

  delighted and seeing her in that opening [TS]

  scene with the fly crawling across her [TS]

  face she was the star of the first [TS]

  episode like it but especially of any [TS]

  part of the blood on her face and [TS]

  everything and she's young she's in the [TS]

  emotions off mode and they asked her to [TS]

  tell her about your tell me about your [TS]

  world and the small comes back in our [TS]

  faces says this world like she always [TS]

  carries get to repeat this kind of a fun [TS]

  thing to do kind of a carbon black style [TS]

  they get to repeat the same actions in [TS]

  the same lines multiple times each time [TS]

  with the they know that the audience [TS]

  knows more about themselves and even [TS]

  that like they give slightly different [TS]

  performances but every time they they do [TS]

  the same loop groundhog day is like a [TS]

  style yet taken takes on a different [TS]

  meaning and I think a lot of evan rachel [TS]

  wood in the beginning it's like oh she's [TS]

  playing the perfect farmer's daughter [TS]

  wishes who she's supposed to play in the [TS]

  world and with her slapping the flying [TS]

  her neck after so when I was like oh you [TS]

  gotta watch out for that one but as the [TS]

  season wore on let's see the moronic ok [TS]

  well maybe I was wrong [TS]

  well maybe I was wrong [TS]

  wrong about that because I see they're [TS]

  doing made storyline and she just mostly [TS]

  seems confused and you know and she's [TS]

  like she wasn't she wasn't becoming like [TS]

  the dangerous leader of the robot [TS]

  rebellion until the end and then I by [TS]

  the end of it like you're so used to her [TS]

  being the farmer's daughter and and you [TS]

  know she means well and everyone she [TS]

  opened up a can of whoop-ass on in [TS]

  episode 5 contrapposto for she's with [TS]

  William anyway you can just get their [TS]

  pants on set up her skirt and she's got [TS]

  her gun and all the stuff like that but [TS]

  you know you know that's in the past [TS]

  eventually like for her character to [TS]

  turn to the end to be to be such as to [TS]

  become like that was such a great climax [TS]

  of thing and the actress pulled it off [TS]

  like she knew I believed her as the [TS]

  scary dangerous eventual leader of this [TS]

  whole thing and it's to do that after [TS]

  all right when she comes up behind Teddy [TS]

  and says it's ok it's gonna be ok tedi [TS]

  yeah it's not just our world not theirs [TS]

  right the moment uh in episode one that [TS]

  is the thing that they hang on every [TS]

  major wood and dolores that you have to [TS]

  remember the rest of the show is there's [TS]

  a great little bit of its world building [TS]

  but it also shows you the levels of like [TS]

  programming in these on these house is [TS]

  actually tell her to cut out the accent [TS]

  right and she goes from having that kind [TS]

  of country accent to being a completely [TS]

  aspect lists kind of sort of like [TS]

  generic accent and it's 70 like there's [TS]

  no she says no no no yes [TS]

  romantic right everything you do is [TS]

  since had such a strange strange [TS]

  treatment and all the actors are all the [TS]

  ones who are playing house are so very [TS]

  good at being inhuman when they're [TS]

  supposed to be in switching right back [TS]

  to being human is probably exercise that [TS]

  actors do like you know write it off and [TS]

  turn it back on but now it serves a [TS]

  story purpose actors do accents all the [TS]

  time too but but in the CIA in the show [TS]

  you see it you're like oh you know like [TS]

  that that informs Dolores and it is a [TS]

  good performance [TS]

  alright so 10 episodes were over it's [TS]

  done and it's not coming back for a year [TS]

  so I have to ask before we go where do [TS]

  we go from here we saw a glimpse of [TS]

  samurai world baby [TS]

  and we've got a robot uprising happening [TS]

  we see Dolores shoot a bunch of people [TS]

  but we don't see exactly who she shoots [TS]

  which is nice too [TS]

  keep your options open obviously [TS]

  adherents the man in black has been shot [TS]

  he's been wing by a by a gunshot from [TS]

  any saliva and was delighted by that [TS]

  oh yeah so what what what what are your [TS]

  expectations what what are you curious [TS]

  about what you want to see so in my and [TS]

  my fondest dreams i hope that the way [TS]

  this show stays fresh cause this is a [TS]

  problem like i think season one you have [TS]

  a beautiful tight season which I think [TS]

  they did that you know hat pattern are [TS]

  conducted and deliver it was very [TS]

  satisfying just overall like a beautiful [TS]

  little gem right it's hard to repeat [TS]

  that because all the things they [TS]

  revealed already revealed and if you're [TS]

  gonna turn this into a show reveals its [TS]

  hard to keep it straight freshdesk [TS]

  people lost my dream is that the next [TS]

  season somehow involves to have a [TS]

  different setting we saw Samurai world [TS]

  there could be multiple parks i would [TS]

  love season one to be the Old West [TS]

  season and season two of the [TS]

  increasingly inappropriate [TS]

  inappropriately named westworld to be [TS]

  all about samurais and season 3 to be [TS]

  about ancient Roman season for like just [TS]

  to keep going like to keep it fresh by [TS]

  changing the setting I that would make [TS]

  it so it's not just like you're not just [TS]

  watching a Western season after season [TS]

  after season because that mean that's [TS]

  problematic in the you know you would [TS]

  imagine that if something goes wrong [TS]

  with the old west park maybe they would [TS]

  bury it and build Star Wars land on top [TS]

  of it or whatever right like that's a [TS]

  way to keep the show fresh my hope is [TS]

  that the show i'm trying to another show [TS]

  that does this a lot i guess maybe the [TS]

  100 100 does not get stuck in a rut then [TS]

  whatever you want to say about the 100 [TS]

  they jumped from promising surrounding [TS]

  and context and and characters to the [TS]

  next the next to the multiple season so [TS]

  I was excited by saying summer world [TS]

  that's what I'm hoping you know [TS]

  realistically speaking i'm assuming [TS]

  anything happens not coming back so I'm [TS]

  not gonna make any predictions about oh [TS]

  that wasn't really him it was the host [TS]

  version i don't think he's coming back [TS]

  for another season hello [TS]

  they'll be great plot totally not his [TS]

  mom died for every episode yeah yeah but [TS]

  like but this was a great setup and it [TS]

  seems like the next season i would like [TS]

  a new setting and i would like the robot [TS]

  rebellion to be forcefully quashed in a [TS]

  way that is disappointing to viewers [TS]

  only to have a bubble back up and have [TS]

  that all happened in a samurai setting [TS]

  with new characters like this have to [TS]

  get some new host in the next [TS]

  but after that season one they can go [TS]

  almost anywhere anywhere that doesn't [TS]

  involve anthony hopkins they can go and [TS]

  they have you know if the same crew is [TS]

  involved and have the same tight [TS]

  storytelling like that's that's the the [TS]

  my my takeaway from season one is they [TS]

  were so careful to build this into a [TS]

  thing that makes sense and I like them [TS]

  both satisfying the internet fanatics by [TS]

  putting so many hints in there that if [TS]

  you are fanatic you figured out way [TS]

  early but also the internet Fornax [TS]

  necessarily spun off into crazy theories [TS]

  that didn't make sense and it's like [TS]

  don't ever think you guys are are things [TS]

  make sense they're not fantastical we're [TS]

  not trying to trick you they played fair [TS]

  with all their things and on the other [TS]

  side of the people aren't obsessively [TS]

  reading fan sites and they just they [TS]

  just kept putting information out [TS]

  episode after episode see this see this [TS]

  see this like four episodes worth of [TS]

  hints for the man in black and William [TS]

  right to bring and then by the time it [TS]

  to the final reveal did the review like [TS]

  nine times to make sure is everybody [TS]

  getting in matchcover putting the hat on [TS]

  like and then they have to have him say [TS]

  the words I am William in some ways like [TS]

  I find that less satisfying than a show [TS]

  that demands that everybody should be [TS]

  everybody get the one more so that they [TS]

  drop right because those shows are [TS]

  sometimes fun but they're not fun for [TS]

  most people because if you missed the [TS]

  morsel then you feel like you have to [TS]

  read a fansite 23 what the hell's going [TS]

  on [TS]

  westworld let everybody have that car on [TS]

  the train tracks and train moment [TS]

  whenever they had that moment it didn't [TS]

  demand everybody had all the sense [TS]

  exactly what happened for my wife you [TS]

  know she figured it out right before she [TS]

  watched episode 10 [TS]

  yeah and it and any anytime you have [TS]

  that moment as long as it's like as long [TS]

  as you think of it as being before the [TS]

  quote-unquote reveal it satisfying [TS]

  because you're mean I had the same thing [TS]

  I'm like oh i see what they're like with [TS]

  the split timelines when I had that [TS]

  revelation which was after the internet [TS]

  but before you know three episodes [TS]

  before the quote-unquote real reveal [TS]

  once i saw that they were doing like [TS]

  this the big smile comes across your [TS]

  face and then and then after the show [TS]

  and frankly going to have to make sure [TS]

  i'm not crazy like no one has it all [TS]

  figured out before hit us the internet [TS]

  to find out you're not crazy [TS]

  get it get a second opinion [TS]

  yeah so season 1i think and I think [TS]

  that's novel because I guess that most [TS]

  shows you their don't aren't well [TS]

  constructed or dishonest with their plot [TS]

  points or like they don't play fair you [TS]

  know mean they're like a hot we're [TS]

  smarter than you are going to use all [TS]

  you didn't play fair right or everything [TS]

  has to be equally fantastic allure and I [TS]

  still like the shows the shows they're [TS]

  super subtle and precise and you really [TS]

  have to pay attention you have to have a [TS]

  lot of background knowledge and a one [TS]

  word phrase said by some person you have [TS]

  to like do you know dig down three [TS]

  levels of subtext to realize that they [TS]

  just revealed this important plot point [TS]

  they're never going to revisit it and [TS]

  you just have to understand it and know [TS]

  it [TS]

  those are satisfying to but West world [TS]

  was i I can't think of a show that is [TS]

  comfortable in terms of accessibility [TS]

  yeah like being being fair being solid [TS]

  being interesting and also having yet [TS]

  accessible to all levels like it it does [TS]

  like a graceful degradation in a website [TS]

  it works if you have JavaScript on or [TS]

  off so that's the famous the famous [TS]

  story God that they came up at the [TS]

  television critics association this to a [TS]

  press tour this summer is that they shut [TS]

  down production on West world after like [TS]

  three episodes got delayed and then [TS]

  people like a troubled production and [TS]

  what the producer said at the TCA was [TS]

  actually we got a couple episodes in and [TS]

  realize we didn't have his firm of a [TS]

  understanding of the rules of the [TS]

  universe as we thought we needed and and [TS]

  since we're putting a lot of money into [TS]

  this and HBO's investing in this and [TS]

  obviously you know you don't make a show [TS]

  to go on for one season and get [TS]

  cancelled you the goal here is to run [TS]

  for a while and make a lot of money for [TS]

  your studio and for HBO and they shut [TS]

  down production and what they said is [TS]

  they locked down everything it's like he [TS]

  did they lock down this season and they [TS]

  locked down the future storylines and [TS]

  they lock down the rules of the world [TS]

  and I think it shows i'm gonna i'm [TS]

  inclined to believe them that they that [TS]

  the producers had this moment which is [TS]

  like oh we can't make this thing up as [TS]

  we go along we really need to get this [TS]

  right and so let's pause and do that and [TS]

  you can see it is like from start to [TS]

  finish it feels consistent in a way that [TS]

  that you know is impressive [TS]

  this is a much more satisfying puzzle [TS]

  box right where yeah i mean that it that [TS]

  you know they give you a [TS]

  a couple pieces and some crazy person on [TS]

  the internet is going to be able to [TS]

  conjecture you know enough enough [TS]

  monkeys enough typewriter somebody's [TS]

  going to put something out that could be [TS]

  the right answer and some people only [TS]

  need two pieces of the puzzle and some [TS]

  people need seven and some people need [TS]

  to see the whole puzzle assembled in [TS]

  front of them but that's it that's a [TS]

  good puzzle box is what it fits together [TS]

  not when it's like note we've been [TS]

  faking you out the whole time we're [TS]

  going to do this crazy thing that you [TS]

  know comes comes out of left field [TS]

  so Tony Tony is that what you want you [TS]

  want to the puzzle box for a second [TS]

  season i would like more puzzle box for [TS]

  second season i am really curious to see [TS]

  what they're gonna do I i think a change [TS]

  in setting or maybe a jump forward in [TS]

  time would be a key to keeping me [TS]

  interested in having more interesting [TS]

  questions that they explore what I don't [TS]

  think they will do and I hope they don't [TS]

  do is like let's do five episodes of the [TS]

  robot uprising and people running and [TS]

  cutting across the park [TS]

  I mean I wouldn't mind up and i feel [TS]

  like i can get that somewhere else to be [TS]

  able to put down those robots it's not [TS]

  like the only humans the entire world as [TS]

  far as we know are running the park like [TS]

  you need to put down a rebellion pretty [TS]

  quickly you can even blow their blow all [TS]

  their spines but not may have sprained [TS]

  yeah I mean yeah maybe maybe I I feel [TS]

  like we don't need to see lengthy robot [TS]

  rebellion that sounds really expensive [TS]

  right [TS]

  yeah so I'm i think some kind of jump [TS]

  forward possibly in time and maybe to [TS]

  another place would be would be [TS]

  interesting so that's I think that's [TS]

  what I'm looking for [TS]

  I'm confident enough in these [TS]

  storytellers that they could keep all [TS]

  five seasons that they planned right [TS]

  there in West world because i think they [TS]

  can tell interesting stories the [TS]

  location doesn't matter as long as it's [TS]

  interesting and there's drama and I want [TS]

  characters that I care about right now I [TS]

  want to get invested in it [TS]

  I want a little puzzle box but it [TS]

  doesn't have to be quite as intricate as [TS]

  this season you know but little puzzle [TS]

  box is nice but I i like the fact that [TS]

  they they wrapped a bow up on most [TS]

  things this season and it was [TS]

  self-contained I'd like him to do that [TS]

  in a second season and what I [TS]

  desperately desperately don't want is I [TS]

  don't want lost or the fourth season of [TS]

  battlestar galactica [TS]

  alright Sarafina yeah nobody wanted mean [TS]

  I feel like that there are couple loose [TS]

  threads from the season but they're [TS]

  always think they could just drop they [TS]

  have a house on yesterday's to lead you [TS]

  have an X easy if you try everything [TS]

  literally as you know you're going to [TS]

  cancel this pointless [TS]

  yes plenty of expectations for next [TS]

  season [TS]

  there's some seeds that were planted [TS]

  that we're waiting to see if they bloom [TS]

  or they just enough time like I it's [TS]

  interesting for a show like this i don't [TS]

  know about the production method how [TS]

  tightly they have to shoot i know the [TS]

  HBO gives them a lot of leeway so [TS]

  there's things are like did they [TS]

  actually shoot some bits and they didn't [TS]

  have that they need four minutes or [TS]

  three minutes 30 minutes and they cut it [TS]

  so like LC and stops we've talked about [TS]

  a lot like the characters were being set [TS]

  up in early episodes to have some part [TS]

  of an arc like to be you know players [TS]

  and it not movers probably and they [TS]

  disappeared the ghost station was kind [TS]

  of presented as this like arts and [TS]

  Native American trope and they're using [TS]

  them a certain way although they're [TS]

  incredibly terrifying and there may be a [TS]

  metaphor for what's to come in terms of [TS]

  what all the robots are going to do [TS]

  they're all going to be sort of like [TS]

  those nations completely brutal against [TS]

  what they see as incurring incursions on [TS]

  their world it's a perfect little you [TS]

  know subtextual metaphor but i have a [TS]

  feeling that we're gonna agree with a [TS]

  lot of people's sentiments I think we're [TS]

  gonna jump forward in time because did I [TS]

  don't think that's going to pick up that [TS]

  doesn't make any sense we're gonna come [TS]

  back to it [TS]

  we've already seen how much they like to [TS]

  do in our Laird timelines and how well [TS]

  they can maintain them all I think LC [TS]

  and stubs are going to be someone [TS]

  pointed out this is not exactly a [TS]

  spoiler the day Louis website changed [TS]

  the website world website the public one [TS]

  changed and Elsie's voices on there [TS]

  somewhere [TS]

  so the idea there is resistance like the [TS]

  my thinking is the whole park is locked [TS]

  down its we locked up for some period of [TS]

  time any large part of the season and [TS]

  will be a subplot about human resistance [TS]

  inside the remaining guests and QA and [TS]

  so forth [TS]

  who are trying to fight and then [TS]

  factions of hosts fighting for what the [TS]

  intent is how interesting that can be i [TS]

  don't know and i made me totally off [TS]

  base but then as the season progresses [TS]

  they haven't seen two hearts is the [TS]

  outside world breaks through in and it's [TS]

  a whole different ballgame again we find [TS]

  out we got information finally about [TS]

  what's outside the park but i think we [TS]

  will see some breakthrough to other [TS]

  worlds that I think the semi world was a [TS]

  hint [TS]

  wonderful season season 2 they may be [TS]

  planning for later but i think it's [TS]

  clear that if you're liberating one [TS]

  world you're gonna liberate all the [TS]

  worlds right yeah yeah i'd like to see [TS]

  like a political thriller where the [TS]

  world's all become self-aware and then [TS]

  they become sort of like wearing [TS]

  nation-states trying to ally with each [TS]

  other against the outside world but also [TS]

  you know with intrigues among each other [TS]

  that would be pretty cool that factions [TS]

  make sense [TS]

  Kelly do you have goals for next year I [TS]

  do um one of so first of all I wanted to [TS]

  see that this season really strikes me [TS]

  as a masterclass like I i would like for [TS]

  future that people who wish to make [TS]

  interesting engaging television to [TS]

  basically study this and see all of the [TS]

  balance in it where we got bows on some [TS]

  storylines some of them got buttons and [TS]

  some of them didn't and like what the [TS]

  effect of those things were and how all [TS]

  of the crazy see rest's were along for [TS]

  the ride and yet people who didn't read [TS]

  anything on the internet we're along for [TS]

  the ride and and and like all of the [TS]

  things that they did where they were [TS]

  able to strike a balance between two [TS]

  pretty extremes was was really [TS]

  impressive to me and like the the way it [TS]

  looked [TS]

  you know you can't fake 35 millimeter [TS]

  like period [TS]

  you can't fake putting Soundgarden and [TS]

  radiohead on a player piano is the old [TS]

  way that you mention that I'm glad you [TS]

  mentioned that the music in this and [TS]

  this and especially all the radiohead [TS]

  was great it was really enjoyable the [TS]

  athan was just saying in our back [TS]

  channel about Maeve's tour of hell with [TS]

  fake plastic trees playing in the [TS]

  background was amazing it looks like the [TS]

  real thing tastes like the real thing my [TS]

  fake plastic girl I was just yeah and an [TS]

  exit music from a film at the end of [TS]

  episode 10 [TS]

  with with at the end of the kind of [TS]

  underscore v of the west-world theme [TS]

  coming back and under it just chills [TS]

  yeah all's the first line of that song [TS]

  is wake from your sleep oh yeah like [TS]

  just start there okay so anybody who's [TS]

  not a huge Radiohead fan go check that [TS]

  out a and the other thing I was that [TS]

  that i am hoping and for the show not [TS]

  just for the sex for the second season [TS]

  is um that they have an end in mind [TS]

  whatever that end game might be that [TS]

  they know how everything ties up because [TS]

  i really i really need for that to [TS]

  happen I know these are things that [TS]

  we've talked about before but I think [TS]

  that's sort of what happened to [TS]

  battlestar galactica and we know that's [TS]

  what happened in season three of lost [TS]

  they didn't know how far they were gonna [TS]

  go so they sort of took season 3 to [TS]

  figure it out and I didn't like where [TS]

  they were going but I i do it like that [TS]

  at least they had an endpoint that they [TS]

  aimed for um we can discuss execution on [TS]

  another show but like at least they [TS]

  ended up with one and they executed it [TS]

  if they did damn it [TS]

  um but like I i like when someone goes [TS]

  in knowing that this is how much story [TS]

  they're going is going to be told or at [TS]

  least how it's going to end so that we [TS]

  know how to get out of it [TS]

  one of the things that sticks with me [TS]

  about this season is that that relates [TS]

  directly to next season is I'm not [TS]

  entirely certain that we need to go [TS]

  forward in time at all because we could [TS]

  also go back remember LC goes to a place [TS]

  that is unused that seems to be sort of [TS]

  some sort of cold storage situation and [TS]

  it looks like ren faire world [TS]

  yeah and one of the things that was [TS]

  interesting was when the doors opened [TS]

  and we saw the guy that was like the [TS]

  host that was sort of part of the pillar [TS]

  when we get to the samurai world level [TS]

  and then we see all the samurai in the [TS]

  room in samurai world and i went is it [TS]

  samurai world or something and then her [TS]

  i think i said Japan world and we saw [TS]

  the logo and it was the ash from the W [TS]

  and I went oh my god it's samurai world [TS]

  and then Felix said it's complicated and [TS]

  my husband said so what level is future [TS]

  world and I was like [TS]

  no go back to that so that's really what [TS]

  i'm hoping and mostly I was really [TS]

  excited because I wasn't super deep into [TS]

  the crazy theory stuff and but I was [TS]

  more than a casual viewer and so for me [TS]

  in the middle of the road it was a great [TS]

  show i had so much fun with it [TS]

  I really loved all of the paying off and [TS]

  so I almost can forgive them for needing [TS]

  a year plus to make sure that they get [TS]

  everything right because most i'm at the [TS]

  almost because I'm really antsy to find [TS]

  out what's next so what I what I hope is [TS]

  next isn't even season two what I want [TS]

  is the kind of thing that they were [TS]

  doing between a couple of seasons for [TS]

  lost because lost was a show that ended [TS]

  very early in the year in the TV season [TS]

  and started very late in the TV season [TS]

  and so they started doing these arg [TS]

  games alternate reality games where you [TS]

  could get like weird voicemail messages [TS]

  from people and the occasional random [TS]

  email with a secret link in it and on [TS]

  and on and like now that the world is so [TS]

  much more mobile and so much more [TS]

  connected and so much more into digging [TS]

  for that stuff i want that i want to be [TS]

  able to go like reading newspapers [TS]

  updates you know sort of like the world [TS]

  building stuff that they did for Wally [TS]

  where you could go way down in the by [TS]

  and large youtube channel and see all [TS]

  kinds of crazy product videos for stuff [TS]

  and I really want to do that you have a [TS]

  career in marketing didn't mention i [TS]

  want that so bad because i want to play [TS]

  it so very much and I really really [TS]

  really hope that's what happens but you [TS]

  know I feel like everybody else like [TS]

  given the people in front of the camera [TS]

  and given the people behind the camera [TS]

  whatever comes next [TS]

  I'm really really looking forward to it [TS]

  because it's going to be a lot of fun [TS]

  well let the brand extensions begin [TS]

  because we do have the time we do have [TS]

  the time for it [TS]

  yeah I'm excited about about when it [TS]

  comes back i look forward to it this was [TS]

  a lot of fun it was a fun ride [TS]

  I my expectations were basically [TS]

  non-existent and I I i was pleasantly [TS]

  surprised throughout enjoyed the whole [TS]

  ride and and there's so many different [TS]

  places to go [TS]

  I'm looking forward to it i'm looking [TS]

  forward to it being a more meta and more [TS]

  weird weird twists and mashups of the [TS]

  present you know the present and past [TS]

  ropes and stuff like that but we're [TS]

  going to wrap it up here for this [TS]

  episode of the incomparable I have [TS]

  nothing left to do but thank my [TS]

  wonderful guests for being here [TS]

  Don melton thank you so much for being [TS]

  on the uncomfortable good thankyou [TS]

  thankyou for letting me barge my way [TS]

  into the shower happy that you were here [TS]

  and I'm glad that you and Kelly get to [TS]

  do your podcast about West world and i [TS]

  look forward to you guys coming back for [TS]

  Season 22 how about that you don't have [TS]

  to wait that long we're gonna do a [TS]

  rewatch yeah oh right I look all right [TS]

  you can get it all at the incomparable [TS]

  comm check it out so Kelly come on thank [TS]

  you so much for being here thank you so [TS]

  much for having me on my first official [TS]

  incomparable piano huh [TS]

  right fleischmann thank you for being [TS]

  here thank you and fries [TS]

  Jason smartphones but they were frozen [TS]

  long ago to come [TS]

  Nathan alderman glad to have you back [TS]

  again thank you for being here glad to [TS]

  be here and now i want to see a version [TS]

  of jurassic park where I'm rooting for [TS]

  the dinosaurs to eat the humans [TS]

  oh you weren't in the original a little [TS]

  bit through the Jurassic Park is part [TS]

  number three and the the dinosaurs are [TS]

  intelligent that would be could that [TS]

  concern me just their case thank you i [TS]

  know things will work out the way [TS]

  they're man to delete accent is a path [TS]

  for all of us and it leads us back to [TS]

  your Jason and Tony sindelar thank you [TS]

  how can you learn from mistakes you [TS]

  don't podcast them all right well that [TS]

  is that's it for this episode of the [TS]

  uncomfortable thanks everybody out there [TS]

  for listening thanks to my panel we will [TS]

  see you next week bye everybody [TS]

  [Music] [TS]