0:00:00*BEEP*
0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 27.
0:00:13Today's show is brought to you by lynda.com, where you can instantly stream thousands of
0:00:17courses created by industry experts, igloo, an internet you'll actually like, and PDFPen7 from
0:00:23Smile. Take control of PDFs on your Mac. My name is Myke Hurley, but I am joined, as always,
0:00:28by your host of mine, the one and only Mr. Jason Snell.
0:00:31Hi, Myke. How's it going?
0:00:32I'm very well, sir. How are you?
0:00:34I'm doing good. We were just realizing that at this moment that we record this,
0:00:39one week from this moment is the big upgrade meetup in central London.
0:00:46First annual, right?
0:00:47Sure. Sure. We'll use the coffers of Relay FM to do future meetups. Well,
0:00:54people will come and visit you. It's sort of a pilgrimage to see Myke in London. You have to
0:00:59go to the man if the man won't come to you, you know. So yes, we'll be there. We have details now
0:01:06of where we will be. We're going to record in the King's Cross area. We're going to record in person
0:01:11an episode of Upgrade next week, and then we will unhook all of the technical things and all of that,
0:01:19and we will go to the meetup, which will be at 6 o'clock, or as you might say, 1800 GMT.
0:01:27And where is it going to be?
0:01:28So, it's at a place I've been to a few times in King's Cross called the Big Chill House.
0:01:33The reason I chose this place, it's got some nice large areas, because we have no way of
0:01:38-- well, you know, we could have done a thing where people had to get tickets, but I kind
0:01:41of didn't really feel that that would be necessary.
0:01:44So it's a really big venue, and it has lots of, like, rooms and stuff like that, so it
0:01:49will definitely be able to I hope unless thousands of people descend on Kings
0:01:53Cross thousands of swarms of up gradients it will probably be able to house
0:01:57everybody that comes down it'll be really great and me and Jason will be
0:02:00there and we'll be sharing beverages and it will be a fun time so if you are in
0:02:04London or in the surrounding areas and you can make it starting at 6 p.m. over
0:02:10at the Big Chill house in Kings Cross we would love to see you. Indeed. And yeah
0:02:17this is uh is for upgrade but if you listen to any incomparable shows any
0:02:21relay shows and you enjoy them then you should come yeah yeah if you want to
0:02:25listen I mean the people listening to this on upgrade you are already invited
0:02:28but I'm gonna mention it to the people who if they if they know us from other
0:02:33other venues from other relay shows that as you said are incomparable or six
0:02:38colors in Mac world and all that everybody everybody welcome we will be
0:02:42we will be there. I will be drinking beer of some sort or other and probably
0:02:48dark a dork a dark sort also a dork sort. A dorky kind of beer. Nerdy beer. So look for that
0:02:57look for the giant nerds drinking beer and and we'll be there so I'm excited
0:03:01I'm excited about equally about the meetup and also the the in-person
0:03:08episode of Upgrade. We're gonna do two of those in the next two weeks one in
0:03:12England and one in Ireland.
0:03:14So...
0:03:15It's the upgrade on tour right now.
0:03:17We should get t-shirts made.
0:03:18Yeah, sure, why not?
0:03:21They're t-shirts for everything else.
0:03:22Why not this?
0:03:23Yeah, so this should be a lot of fun.
0:03:26And we were saying right before we started that, and it's much more a relay your feels
0:03:31kind of aspect of it.
0:03:33But I'm at that moment coming out of the insanity of last week with the Apple event.
0:03:39And in my new life as an independent writer and podcaster and also a freelancer, planning
0:03:47for a two-week trip is very different because I don't have like a staff to do, "Can you
0:03:51do this for me?
0:03:52Can you do that for me?"
0:03:53I kind of like have to keep things going and I have to figure out when I'm going to write
0:03:59things and I've been stockpiling podcasts to release while I'm gone.
0:04:05As of tomorrow I'm going to be five weeks ahead with the incomparable, because there's
0:04:09going to be a big gap when we're not going to be able to record anything.
0:04:13And so it's kind of crazy.
0:04:15And then I'm also going to be away from my family for a couple weeks, which is sad, but
0:04:18I will be with my pals on the other side of the Atlantic, and so I'm looking forward to
0:04:22that.
0:04:23Right.
0:04:24We have a little bit of follow-out, and a very special vertical to address.
0:04:30Oh yes.
0:04:32Yes.
0:04:33We had Federico on last week.
0:04:35I ambushed you on a podcast with Federico and that was great.
0:04:41That was a classic moment.
0:04:42We got a lot of feedback from people who thought it was great.
0:04:45We thought it was great, so we're glad you thought it was great too.
0:04:47Almost killed Myke, but you know.
0:04:49Nailing, very nailing.
0:04:52And Federico, he was just smiling while the whole thing was going on, like, "Oh, this
0:04:58is really going to get Myke."
0:05:00Oh, it was, that was beautiful.
0:05:03But his more broad story of his trip to San Francisco and the Apple event and all that
0:05:07is on Connected 30, so people should listen to that if they want to hear more from Federico
0:05:11about that trip to San Francisco.
0:05:14And then he also wrote a piece on Mac Stories about it.
0:05:15But a good place to start if you are a podcast listener, which you are because you're listening
0:05:20to this podcast, would be Connected 30 to hear more from Federico.
0:05:25So I have a little story.
0:05:26About a week or so ago, it was about 8 p.m. in the evening and I was working on one of
0:05:33the scripts are inquisitive I was in another room in the house just kind of
0:05:36trying to get a different perspective and working on something I was stuck
0:05:39with and then there was a knock at the door this is 8 p.m. at night I was very
0:05:42surprised didn't really understand why anybody would be knocking on the door at
0:05:468 p.m. at night and I opened the door and there is a man standing over a package
0:05:49for me and I didn't I had no idea why this would be happening so late in the
0:05:56evening and a package I wasn't expecting so he gives me the package and it just
0:06:01says on the side of the box the word pong p-o-n-g. I had been telling you that a package
0:06:06from pong was coming for you. That was when it all started to click into place. I tore
0:06:13open this box to find inside some chili jam and some manchego cheese. It finally had arrived
0:06:20Jason had had teased me with the cheese for long enough but the fine made sheep cheese
0:06:28of Manchago has arrived. And I procured some crackers.
0:06:34I didn't send you crackers. I sent you a little chili jam, but I didn't send you any crackers.
0:06:39And so then shortly before we recorded today, I sat down with a little cheese snack.
0:06:44I got some crackers and some grapes, some of the chili jam.
0:06:50And I had a small selection of cheeses. I had a cheddar cheese from Cheddar, as we established.
0:06:57some red Leicester cheese which is my favourite cheese. I think that was from Gloucester in
0:07:01England and some Manchego cheese and it was very enjoyable. Manchego cheese doesn't taste
0:07:07anything like I expected. I don't know what I expected but it's quite strong but it's
0:07:14not overpowering and it was very nice on these crackers that I had that were, they had salt
0:07:19and pepper in them and I must say Jason I am now a fan of the Manchego. I'm in the Manchego
0:07:26Club all thanks to you.
0:07:28I recommend now that for the full Jason experience you listen to an episode of The Flop House
0:07:32while eating Manchego.
0:07:34But I'm very happy that you like it.
0:07:36You know, again, I don't have a huge amount of my self-worth invested in various kinds
0:07:39of cheese.
0:07:40I only discovered Manchego a few years ago, but I really like it and I'm glad you do too.
0:07:45Also we had many people point out that when Casey mentioned Manchego on this week's analog,
0:07:50he said it was a dry cheese to which all the cheese snobs out there shouted, "No, it's
0:07:54- Not a dry cheese, but be that as it may,
0:07:57it's an enjoyable cheese.
0:07:58- It's crumbly. - I don't really know.
0:08:00- Yeah, well, and it's hard, it's a hard cheese.
0:08:02But it's good, it's tasty.
0:08:05And like I said, I usually eat it with this tomato jam
0:08:10that we made at home from a recipe
0:08:13by Scott McNulty's wife, Marisa McClelland,
0:08:15and her book, sponsored by Food and Jars,
0:08:19a fine cookbook about canning.
0:08:21And it's a great recipe and it's great with cheese.
0:08:24So that's why I got you the chili jam is I thought some kind of tomato-y or slightly
0:08:28spicy kind of thing would be a nice thing to try with too.
0:08:32But I'm glad you like it.
0:08:33I did indeed.
0:08:34I did indeed.
0:08:35So thank you very much for that.
0:08:37Very kind of you.
0:08:38It was after the Velveeta, right?
0:08:40You couldn't say that.
0:08:41Yeah, that was it.
0:08:42I could not believe that Casey got to you with Velveeta before I got to you with Manchego.
0:08:46I figured I gave you some time to buy some Manchego yourself without it being an explicit
0:08:51sort of assignment like Myke watches movies.
0:08:53go buy some manchego. I figured you'd stumble into it, and that didn't happen, so I had
0:08:57to take matters into my own hands and send you, dispatch to you directly from a courier,
0:09:03some manchego. So my, the Batman of cheese basically is who I am now. I'm sending my
0:09:09minions to deliver cheese when it's needed.
0:09:13[laughter]
0:09:14On that note, let's take a break. We'll thank our first friend of the week, and I think
0:09:20I think we're gonna spend some time today looking over and thinking back to last week's
0:09:25event and some of the things that have changed now that you've had a bit more time for the
0:09:29things to settle in.
0:09:30A bit more, a week more time.
0:09:34This week's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by lynda.com, the online learning platform
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0:11:34Thank you so much to lynda.com for being such a great supporter of Real AFM and
0:11:37of upgrade. Yay! So last week's episode of course like you know and I think
0:11:45people would hear it in the show you were very fresh having come out of the
0:11:50event and there was a lot of things that I was telling you because I had had the
0:11:54time to dig through more of the product pages or you see the weird things that people recognize
0:12:01or ask on Twitter, right? You see these little things where someone is, "Oh, look at this.
0:12:06There's this thing or there's this thing in the store that we didn't know about," that
0:12:09kind of thing. So I kind of want to know, how are you feeling about last week now, about
0:12:16some of the products and the overall feel of the event?
0:12:19Yeah, it's funny. It comes up occasionally and I realize that it's inside baseball, but
0:12:24I was glad that we could talk about it last week a little bit. There is this... I mean,
0:12:31there may be a reality distortion field, but there's also a bubble when you cover these
0:12:35events that all you get is what Apple wants you to get. It's akin to just watching the
0:12:43video of the event and not ever visiting any of the website. But our colleagues in the
0:12:48media who are not at the event, they've got the video on, but they are scouring Apple's
0:12:53PR site and Apple's marketing pages on Apple.com because there are always tidbits.
0:12:59There are products that get released that aren't mentioned on stage.
0:13:01There are features that are mentioned in detail that don't make it into the final presentation
0:13:06on stage.
0:13:07And if you're at the event, you miss it all.
0:13:09You don't see any of that stuff.
0:13:11And so you come out and you're blinking, you know, you come out into the light like you've
0:13:14been in the cave, and your people back at the office or whatever, all of your colleagues,
0:13:21they know more than you do very quickly, because you've been in that hands-on area, getting
0:13:26information other people don't get, which is the hands-on experience with it, but what
0:13:30you lack is some of the quirky details. So in the last week, I've, you know, I think
0:13:38what I found is that there weren't that many quirky details about the Apple Watch, that
0:13:43impression of that was that it was much... there were some changes, but I feel like they
0:13:48were all about like how it was presented during the event more than anything else. And then
0:13:53on the MacBook side, I don't know, it wasn't as... I wasn't as turned around by it in terms
0:13:59of new information as I was just thinking about it, learning more about USBC, a little
0:14:05bit more about what exactly its possibility and limitations are and where it may or may
0:14:10not have come from, which was an interesting little conversation this week. And I just
0:14:15spent a lot of time thinking about like my impressions of that time I spent with the
0:14:19MacBook because I spent I invested far more time in the MacBook than the Apple Watch.
0:14:23I know some of my colleagues at the hands-on area spent a lot of time with the with the
0:14:28watch and I felt like I had already spent a lot of time with the watch. I'd worn it.
0:14:31The only difference was going to be some interaction stuff and I saw some of the interaction stuff
0:14:35but I really emphasized the MacBook because it was completely new, not going to be out
0:14:39for several weeks and I wanted to spend time with that keyboard and that trackpad. So I
0:14:43actually wrote a couple of stories last week about MacBook stuff based on, you know, thinking
0:14:50about that, especially the input devices, and also thinking about the USB-C connector.
0:14:55Because I think the MacBook is going to affect how everybody who uses a Mac interacts with
0:15:01their Macs over the next five years because it is going to usher in at least some of this
0:15:05technology is going to make it to many or all Macs in the next few years. And so I think
0:15:12it's really worth thinking about that because that's a huge story in the long haul. Now
0:15:16the Apple Watch is shiny. Literally, it is shiny. But I don't know. It was also not -- the
0:15:24percentage of new material in the Apple Watch stuff was not as great. So although I'm excited
0:15:29about the Apple Watch, for me, the MacBook was the thing I spent this last week thinking
0:15:33about most of the time.
0:15:34All right, so let's look at this a little bit more then because I can't remember if I asked you this question last week
0:15:40But maybe you're thinking about it a little bit more
0:15:43now
0:15:45Are you gonna buy one of these
0:15:48No
0:15:49Okay, so tell me why
0:15:51Well because I have a top-of-the-line
0:15:53i7 Mac 11 inch MacBook Air from 2014 and
0:15:59And my primary system is no longer my laptop.
0:16:04It's this Retina iMac that I have.
0:16:07So for me personally, this doesn't make sense.
0:16:12Would I buy one of these down the line?
0:16:14Absolutely.
0:16:15If IDG hadn't given me my work laptop
0:16:19and I was using the old laptop
0:16:21that I had kicking around at home,
0:16:24I would be more interested in it,
0:16:27especially now that I have a desktop.
0:16:29I think if I can just keep on playing these scenarios, if I was working at this desk with
0:16:36my external monitor and my thunderbolt hub, then I would have a problem because I couldn't
0:16:42plug this laptop into it.
0:16:43So it's not, it's just in all these scenarios, it's not a really great fit for me right now.
0:16:47But given, I'll put it this way, given how I use my MacBook Air now, I would absolutely
0:16:52buy one of these because I don't plug it into anything ever.
0:16:56I used to plug it in on a desk and dock it with this Thunderbolt dock and have multiple
0:17:05devices, like five devices coming off of it, and Ethernet and audio out and all of these
0:17:10things.
0:17:11But now my MacBook Air is largely a roam around the house, sit in the backyard, take it to
0:17:17a briefing or when I travel kind of system.
0:17:22And it could do that.
0:17:25I'm interested to see how that core M processor works in terms of something like logic, which
0:17:30I use.
0:17:31But that's, again, that's a high-end kind of pro kind of thing, and I bet it'll be okay.
0:17:35Not fantastic, but with the SSD in it, I bet it'll be fine to edit audio even.
0:17:41Because these computers now are...all of these computers are so powerful that unless you're
0:17:45using it for very specific powerful needs, which our audience is much more inclined to
0:17:52than I think the general public, you know, I think it's enough.
0:17:54So I feel like for me, I would buy this system, but right now I don't need to buy it because
0:17:59I've got a pretty good small Mac laptop.
0:18:03And although it's not retina, I can live with that.
0:18:07So we'll see.
0:18:09I could see myself getting one of these in a couple of years, or if my kids were agitating
0:18:16for a laptop or something like that, I would consider the, "Do I get this and hand that
0:18:21down or do I get them one or all of that?"
0:18:24I could see that. So it's definitely not a no because of anything other than the fact
0:18:28that I'm not at that point in the buying cycle. What about you?
0:18:33So I have, what was it, Maclust. I have hashtag Maclust.
0:18:39Hashtag Maclust, thank you Phil Schiller.
0:18:41I do, I definitely do. It's a beautiful computer. And I keep hearing people mention about travel.
0:18:51And I'm traveling a lot more this year than I ever have before.
0:18:57And I expect that that will continue, and there's probably things that I'm going to
0:19:00be traveling for this year that I don't even know about yet.
0:19:04And I have a 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro, and it's fine, but it's still a bit too big for
0:19:11an economy seat.
0:19:13And I guess anything you can do to make that smaller is going to be better, right?
0:19:20- Yeah, you've got so many USB things though,
0:19:24for again, for you personally,
0:19:26and we may not be the best examples.
0:19:27Like I've got a USB mixer, you know,
0:19:29USB type, you know, A, B mixer.
0:19:33And so then you're throwing in an adapter
0:19:36and then you have to also power it.
0:19:38And you know, it is smaller and lighter.
0:19:41That's true.
0:19:42But you opted for the 13 inch retina MacBook Pro
0:19:44over an 11 inch MacBook Air.
0:19:46- Yeah, so let me talk from my decision
0:19:49for why I went with the Pro.
0:19:50I went with the Pro just because I wanted power and the difference in weight and thickness
0:19:56is, I feel, is not as harsh as the power difference.
0:20:02I wanted a machine that could do everything and that I could also push if I had to.
0:20:07Like if something happened and I could only use this computer for recording and editing,
0:20:13then great, I could do that.
0:20:16as well I'm not I'm I I really don't like the silver bezel on the MacBook Air
0:20:25especially on the 11 it's not looks like you're looking at kind of like a to me
0:20:30anyway when I see it looks like a postcard on a billboard like it's just I
0:20:34don't like it I just I'm just not a big fan of that design anymore and I much
0:20:39prefer the the way that the MacBook Pro looks in that I need to spend I mean need
0:20:44spend some time with the MacBook because it's got the edge-to-edge glass screen
0:20:47too. I've found that, and maybe maybe they've changed the the glare coating on
0:20:52it, but I always preferred the MacBook Air screen to the MacBook Pro screens
0:20:56because I found that the the even though the silver bezel is not pretty, it allows
0:21:02them to have whatever screen coating is on that screen, I find it to be much
0:21:08less glare-y than the MacBook Pro screens. Much less glare-y. I may be less sensitive
0:21:15to it. I don't have any problem with that. And plus as well, I may be more than anything,
0:21:20I wanted a retina screen. Yeah. And that's kind of why I had no other choice. Now the
0:21:26reason that, I mean I really like the look of the MacBook Air, and probably like for
0:21:32the majority of stuff that I actually use this MacBook Pro for, I could use the MacBook
0:21:35care for. Right? Because I do all the production really on the Mac Pro and the
0:21:41the MacBook that I use is for my general day-to-day work. My MacBook Pro, I've said this before,
0:21:46it's my main computer. But the reason that I won't get it, I actually have a few
0:21:49reasons, is the way that I use this computer means that the MacBook Air
0:21:53wouldn't work for me. So quite frequently I have my MacBook Pro plugged in and I
0:21:59charge my iPhone. That is something that happens. Or I like to charge my iPhone
0:22:03whilst using the computer. And I appreciate I could get another adapter
0:22:09and a plug and a dock but it's just something that I don't have. But more than
0:22:12anything and the main reason that I wouldn't get it is because I wouldn't
0:22:16use most of the functions of the MacBook Air on a day-to-day basis. I sometimes
0:22:21suffer with some wrist pain and arm pain so I elevate my MacBook Pro and use a
0:22:26Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and a magic mouse. So I need the Microsoft
0:22:32ergonomic keyboard it has a little USB Bluetooth thing that has to be plugged
0:22:35in constantly so you wouldn't even be able to plug that in and also the trackpad and the new
0:22:42keyboard I would never use them or I wouldn't use them that much so like the
0:22:46big advancements of this machine I wouldn't really use so I really think it
0:22:53looks incredible I think that it you know I think that for some of what you
0:22:57need is it's too early but it has to start at some point. Like, we're not ready
0:23:04for USB-C yet. But we will be eventually and the only way we will be
0:23:11is by there being computers for it. So I think that the MacBook is a really
0:23:17good machine for most people provided that they know exactly what they're
0:23:21getting in to. Because you can't even, like I know we were talking about like
0:23:27"Oh, you can't plug USB in and power, and we're talking about hubs and stuff."
0:23:31But if you have anything USB, you can't plug it in.
0:23:34You need an adapter to just plug in one USB.
0:23:37Maybe you have a hard drive you like to back up onto, or something like that.
0:23:41That's true.
0:23:43I don't know if you even were paying attention to anything
0:23:48when the iMac came out.
0:23:50Were you a very small child at that point? I don't know.
0:23:53The original iMac.
0:23:55Yeah, the original iMac.
0:23:56- Yeah, I don't wanna tell you how old I was,
0:23:57but I was young.
0:23:58- Yeah, that's enough.
0:24:01I don't wanna hear anymore out of you, you kids.
0:24:04But this is exactly what the conversation was then,
0:24:07which was, oh, it's underpowered,
0:24:09it doesn't have a floppy drive,
0:24:10it doesn't have max serial, it doesn't have ADB,
0:24:13all it has is USB, what the heck is USB?
0:24:15It was very much like this,
0:24:17oh, you'll need an adapter and blah, blah, blah,
0:24:18but you had to start somewhere.
0:24:20And Apple's not afraid to do that,
0:24:22and I love that about Apple.
0:24:23And so yeah, this is gonna be a weird computer for a while,
0:24:25And then in five years, we're gonna look back and say,
0:24:28"Oh, that's where it all started."
0:24:30And it's gonna be the root computer
0:24:32of all of this new technology that we're seeing.
0:24:35Like USB-C will be like, "Oh, USB-C,
0:24:37"well, that started with that crazy MacBook
0:24:39"where that was the only port."
0:24:41But now everybody's got it.
0:24:42And so this is all happening in slow motion
0:24:45and we can sit here and this Apple focused world
0:24:50has been talking breathlessly about this for a week.
0:24:53We're talking very quickly about something
0:24:55that's going to happen very slowly. But it will happen, and it's fine. But we're entering
0:25:01this weird transition. So I wrote a piece on the formerly Paul Ferat's Windows Super
0:25:07Site, winsupercite.com, where I try to explain Apple things to a Windows professional IT
0:25:13audience on a weekly basis. That's kind of interesting. And I wrote a thing about USB-C
0:25:17for them. And, you know, very much because I know I'm speaking to IT people, I spent
0:25:23lot of time on Apple's dance, the dance of the connectors. Like, over the years, Apple
0:25:31has had so many different connection technologies. It used to be even crazier in that it was
0:25:36only on Apple products. The Mac serial and Apple desktop bus and even really SCSI for
0:25:43most use cases were only things that were on the Mac. And then they didn't run Intel
0:25:47processors. I mean, Macs used to be so not PCs that it was just a totally different...
0:25:52It was a parallel universe.
0:25:54They didn't connect at all.
0:25:56And then over the course of the last 15 years, Macs have become essentially just PCs, and
0:26:01they've got all the same stuff.
0:26:02The only difference is the operating system.
0:26:04And I mean, the design and stuff, but I mean, the ports are ports that you could find on
0:26:08a PC more or less.
0:26:10And so I wrote about that.
0:26:13And one of the things, if you're a technical support person or an IT person that you care
0:26:17about is that we had entered a period of stability where sort of, if you had a mini display port
0:26:21connector or adapter, you were good. You could get all the Macs had that and we just left
0:26:27that period. Because now we're going to have this weird Mac that doesn't use many display
0:26:33port to connect to a monitor and you're going to need another adapter or two in your in
0:26:36your conference room or users of this product who do presentations are going to always have
0:26:42to bring that with them in case they need it. And that's just this happens. These are
0:26:48these are growing pains. Mac users always complain about, and Apple fans in general,
0:26:53always complained about the fact that, or, well, they didn't complain, they would point
0:26:57and laugh at Microsoft and the struggles Microsoft would have because Microsoft had this huge
0:27:03install base and they wanted to maintain compatibility and, you know, that was what Microsoft excelled
0:27:08at was dealing with the people who do support and big organizations and that was a weight
0:27:16on Windows. But this is the flip side of that. Apple not caring about continuity and just
0:27:23making it hard for everybody in the transition because they want to move to something that's
0:27:28new and that's better gets us where we are with this product. And so yeah, it's going
0:27:33to be a pain. And yeah, I'm not looking forward to that moment where I realize that all of
0:27:38my adapters are now useless because I have a new computer with a new set of ports that
0:27:44are totally different and although they're better they're also different.
0:27:47But that's what you get for being users of products by a company that is pushing the
0:27:53ball forward and that's what Apple is doing with this.
0:27:56So I don't know, it's just kind of funny.
0:27:59It's all true, yes.
0:28:00It is a weird product, yes it's probably not for everyone, yes it is going to be a pain
0:28:05for all involved for a while, but that's how change happens.
0:28:09You just got to deal with it.
0:28:10It can be difficult and it can be frustrating, annoying, and expensive, but without trying
0:28:17to be an apologist, I love that my chosen team decides to do this stuff.
0:28:26Yeah.
0:28:27That's one of the reasons that we like Apple, is that they do stuff like this, right?
0:28:33And it's very Apple.
0:28:34I said in that Super Site column, this is the most Appley thing that you could imagine.
0:28:39Hey, it's got one port and that includes the power plug.
0:28:42What?
0:28:43But, you know, then, and then Google released the new
0:28:46or announced and shipped the new Chromebook Pixel,
0:28:49which also has two USB-C ports.
0:28:53So, you know, it's the start of something
0:28:55that's going to be everywhere.
0:28:56It's gonna be everywhere.
0:28:57Even a year ago, we were all talking about how
0:29:00they had finally done a reversible USB connector,
0:29:03which is this one, and how it's like,
0:29:05ah, finally the USB consortium has figured something out
0:29:08about ease of use and all of that. Well, it turns out maybe Apple was involved at that
0:29:12in the development of this standard too.
0:29:14Yeah, I think it was on the talk show this week.
0:29:17Yeah, it sounds like John maybe overstated Apple's—I think in the talk show John Gruber
0:29:22said something like Apple invented it and then—
0:29:24And handed it over.
0:29:25Yeah, and that's maybe not entirely true and there's a lot of politics involved, but, you
0:29:31know, the nice thing about it is this is not an Apple proprietary standard. This is a standard
0:29:36standard, an open available standard that other PC makers are going to support, presumably
0:29:42that Intel will support. It will become the new generation of USB and Apple, if Apple
0:29:48got to be influential, you know, I think it's good for Apple to have this connector exist.
0:29:52So, yeah.
0:29:53My understanding is that this is just USB 3.0 with a different connector, right? Like
0:29:58it doesn't give anything different.
0:30:00No.
0:30:01Well, it is USB, underlying it is USB 3.1, but the issue is that this connection standard
0:30:10is different enough that adapters are required.
0:30:12So it's more than the old school is my understanding.
0:30:17It's a little bit different that you need a little bit more in the adapter, but I don't
0:30:21know a lot of the details.
0:30:22I haven't read as much about that, but underlying it is USB 3.0 and 3.1 and what those can do,
0:30:28but this is a totally different connector thing.
0:30:30It is there, I think what they said was, this connection change will require adapters because
0:30:35there's specific things that need to be adapted between USB A and B and connector type C,
0:30:40but that they built this with forward-looking whatever so that they say this shouldn't happen
0:30:48again.
0:30:49This should be the last time that you need like a totally crazy adapter to get your USB
0:30:53stuff to work.
0:30:54So these adapters, are the adapters with apparently like the little computers inside them?
0:30:59That's my guess, and I don't know that for a fact, but that's my guess is that these
0:31:03are like the Thunderbolt adapters that we've seen, where it actually needs to do some more
0:31:08sophisticated stuff than just a cable.
0:31:15But I don't know for sure.
0:31:17We've reached the edge of my knowledge about USB-C. All I know is that we need adapters
0:31:22for everything if we're going to use USB-C. Adapters everywhere.
0:31:25All the adapters.
0:31:26All the great adapters.
0:31:27- I mean, we got a lot of feedback that I didn't put in follow up, but we got the same
0:31:33feedback everybody did, which is essentially, "Look, if you need to connect to big displays
0:31:37and external drives, this computer's not for you."
0:31:40On ATP this week, John Syracuse went on for quite a while about how he was going to be
0:31:46painted as the guy who said, "This computer's no good because I can't use it."
0:31:51And he's like, "No, no, no, that's not my point."
0:31:53was making a different point which is if you're gonna have more than zero ports
0:31:58maybe you should have two which I think that's a fair point I actually I would
0:32:04be surprised if there isn't a future a future MacBook in a year or two that has
0:32:09two ports on it I just wouldn't that's what happened with the MacBook Air I
0:32:12kind of mind it inconceivable that they would stay in conceivable that they
0:32:17could stay with just one that just seems weird but they've made a choice like
0:32:21They've made a choice, but like, why would you do that forever?
0:32:24- Wouldn't it be great to have one on either side so that you could charge or attach peripherals
0:32:29from either side?
0:32:31That would be really nice.
0:32:32So I think that'll probably happen.
0:32:34And then we had one I wanted to mention.
0:32:36Lister David represented a larger group by saying, "Why do MacBook commentators seem
0:32:41so hung up on a single port and not the retina screen, lightness, and battery life?"
0:32:46And you know, I got a lot of this and I sense with some of the people who make this comment
0:32:53that they're frustrated that people are focusing on the negative and not the positive.
0:32:59And I get that, although at the same time it's not really our job to focus on the positive.
0:33:04It's our job to kind of like figure out everything that a product means.
0:33:08I do agree that people who write about this stuff are sometimes the most demanding technical
0:33:14people of all, and that they totally lose perspective about a product like this. I feel
0:33:20like the stuff I've listened to and read has been a little bit better than in the past
0:33:24about this. Unlike the original MacBook Air, for example, I feel like, you know, John Syracuse
0:33:29is a good example. The nerds are realizing, are better at realizing that just because
0:33:35a product's not for them doesn't mean that it's not good, or that it's not good for a
0:33:39certain kind of audience. You know, it remains to be seen when we actually use these things,
0:33:44how all of us feel about the actual performance and how that keyboard actually feels.
0:33:48But I feel like we're getting better at having a little more perspective and saying, "Our
0:33:54use case is not the common use case," because that's true.
0:33:56I think of how my kids use laptops.
0:34:00I think about how my mom used her laptop before she switched to an iPad.
0:34:04I think about how people use iPads.
0:34:06And I think this is the product for them.
0:34:08And there is this tendency, all of us have it, to see a product that is not targeted
0:34:13at you and get mad at it because I can't use that product. But you know, I think that's
0:34:19okay. There are other products for you to use. You don't need to use this product. This
0:34:23is like the iPhone 6 Plus. It's not for everybody. And that's okay. There's also an iPhone 6.
0:34:29You can choose whether you want the big phone or not. We're not going to make you use it.
0:34:33Nobody's going to make you buy a MacBook with one port. If they stop making all other Apple
0:34:38laptops and this was the only one, then I think you'd have a better reason to complain.
0:34:42but they're not going to do that. So I think we're getting better at this, but it is an
0:34:46important I think I think it's right in the people who are trying to kind of keep us honest
0:34:49by saying, look, you know, you guys are not I am sitting here with this thunderbolt doc
0:34:57next to my computer, and it's got like five things plugged into it's like that is not
0:35:00a common use case. That is crazy me editing podcasts and logic, not a common use case.
0:35:05And that's okay. I won't when I review the MacBook, I'm not going to be judging it on
0:35:11whether I can use it or not. I'm gonna have to think of the bigger picture of who is this
0:35:14for. I learned that really early on when I was writing reviews at MacUser and MacWorld.
0:35:20One of the questions you have to ask and answer is, who is this product for? Who's it targeted
0:35:23for, and does it meet that? Will it serve those people? And it's very easy as a reviewer
0:35:29to lose complete perspective of that and make it all about you. And a review that's all
0:35:33about you doesn't tell anybody anything unless they happen to be exactly like you, which
0:35:38is probably not possible. I think the thing with a lot of this stuff is like
0:35:43everybody is just bringing their own personal experience to it. So the
0:35:48people that don't understand the one port or focus on the one port
0:35:52that maybe we have is because like how I just explained like with the way that I
0:35:56use my computer I can't use this computer. There are some things where I
0:36:01could adapt but there are some things where it's like adapting could
0:36:05calls me physical pain, right? So I can't adapt to one port. And
0:36:12it's the same with other people who say that one port is fine, it's
0:36:15because that's what you use. And it does take the more considered approach
0:36:19where I think initially it's been a lot of first impressions and
0:36:23feelings which tend to come from personal experience. But I've put a
0:36:27lot of thought into it and been thinking about why is this interesting, why would
0:36:31I want one and why wouldn't I want one? And that's kind of where I've come to.
0:36:36It's like I would very much like to have this computer but there is no
0:36:40world in which I will own two laptops. It's crazy. But I think it would be
0:36:45very very nice to own for the specific uses of like traveling and stuff but I'm
0:36:49not gonna buy a laptop just for traveling. But I can see for people that
0:36:53do travel a lot especially or are writing in environments where it's very
0:36:58constrained for them and they really need the space. This is kind of the
0:37:01perfect machine because it's got a bigger display for the size of the
0:37:05case and with it being
0:37:09Retina you can really ramp up the resolution on the thing and it's an
0:37:13interesting product and there's a lot of innovation in
0:37:16there that I'm looking forward to trickling down to the lines a bit more.
0:37:20So for my upgrade in a year or two, when I want to upgrade my MacBook Pro,
0:37:26then I will be able to benefit from the work that's been done on the new
0:37:30the MacBook. I have two other pieces of listener interaction that I want to
0:37:37mention here before we move on from the MacBook. One of them is from listener Matt
0:37:40who wrote in, you know, we talked about whether Thunderbolt, this is a sign
0:37:45that Thunderbolt is going away, and he wrote in to say he doesn't think, he's a
0:37:49pro, he says he doesn't think Thunderbolt's going anywhere, it's got a
0:37:51lot of support in a lot of places in pro applications, and you know when I
0:37:55replied to him and I said, you know, but is this gonna be like FireWire where it
0:37:58just sort of ends up more on pro systems and their consumer systems that don't have it,
0:38:02he said, "Yeah, that may be the case, and we'll have to see."
0:38:05It looks to me like over time, USB-C is going to be able to do for consumer applications
0:38:10at least more or less everything that we want Thunderbolt for, and that maybe Thunderbolt
0:38:15will fade away eventually, but it would be a longer and slower fade and something that
0:38:21really happened more on the consumer line where it would stick around for longer on
0:38:25the pro line.
0:38:27I think that's probably right.
0:38:29And then Upgrading Sam, I just varied it
0:38:32because I know you like to say Upgrading.
0:38:35Wrote in to point out something interesting,
0:38:38the LG G2 and the Moto X both also use,
0:38:40these smartphones also have stepped or terraced batteries.
0:38:44I also had somebody write in
0:38:46after I was on Mac break weekly last week
0:38:47to point out that HP actually had a laptop
0:38:51with a force-based track pad
0:38:52that didn't move a couple of years ago.
0:38:55Although interestingly, and it was good, I didn't know that.
0:38:59I really appreciate that person writing in.
0:39:01But interestingly, that was the whole feature
0:39:02was there was a force sensor and it didn't move.
0:39:05If you wanted feedback,
0:39:07if you had the speakers on on the laptop,
0:39:10when you clicked it, it played a sound of a trackpad click.
0:39:13And to me, this is the kind of thing
0:39:17that Apple does really well,
0:39:18is Apple takes that existing stuff of the force sensors
0:39:22and the existing stuff of haptics
0:39:24and write some very clever software
0:39:26and integrates the hardware together
0:39:27and create something that feels like you're depressing it
0:39:29when you're not, which is way better
0:39:32than hearing a Windows play a click sound.
0:39:36So I think that is like a little microcosm
0:39:39of how Apple does things.
0:39:40And whenever Apple announces a new feature,
0:39:43whether it's the Terrace battery or something,
0:39:45especially if you're in the distortion field at the time,
0:39:49you're like, "Oh wow, that's a really cool idea."
0:39:51And they're always,
0:39:52even if you don't say Apple thought of it first, you will always get...and you write
0:39:56about like, "Hey, Apple introduced this cool feature," there's always somebody in my experience
0:40:01who writes in and goes, "They weren't first with that. Somebody else did that first,"
0:40:04and they're really angry about it. And usually, I try not to make claims that it's first from
0:40:10Apple because that's usually not the case. This, though, is what makes that Apple stuff
0:40:14different, is that Apple puts a lot of this stuff that's totally not...they're totally
0:40:18not first with any of that stuff or most of that stuff, and they put it together in a
0:40:21really clever way that are the first ones to make something that makes sense as a whole.
0:40:27And who wants to bet? Okay, so it's been a couple of years since HP had that four sensing
0:40:31trackpad and nobody seems to really picked up on it. Who wants to bet how long it's going
0:40:35to take for PC makers to create four sensitive trackpads with haptics in order to have the
0:40:44same effect? You will see them. Whether they sell well or not, who knows. Whether they're
0:40:47well implemented, who knows. But because Apple's kind of packaged this whole thing together,
0:40:52that's what makes people interested in it. And it is very compelling. It is kind of an
0:40:56amazing product, the trackpad. I really kind of love it, and I want one for my desk here.
0:41:02I want a Force Touch Magic trackpad. Could we add more words in front of the word "trackpad"?
0:41:08Probably not. But anyway, I think that's an interesting angle that a lot of times these
0:41:12These aren't the original things.
0:41:13The Terrace batteries existed before.
0:41:16The Force trackpad existed before.
0:41:18But Apple does a good job of selling it.
0:41:22And often we'll put a bunch of different things
0:41:25together to tell a story about why a product is good that
0:41:28include those things, where sometimes it ends up
0:41:30just being a fact in a product.
0:41:33And there's nothing really connected to it.
0:41:35Because they say on stage, we invented this.
0:41:38And it's like, that word can be taken quite,
0:41:43can be taken literally or more loosely,
0:41:46because they probably did invent it for their purpose.
0:41:49Like they didn't take it off the shelf.
0:41:51But it doesn't mean that they were necessarily
0:41:54the first person to ever consider the idea.
0:41:57Does that make sense?
0:41:58- Yeah.
0:41:59- Like, you know, they made it,
0:42:01but they didn't necessarily come up with the original idea.
0:42:05- Right, right.
0:42:06And that's, you know, it's okay.
0:42:08I get why people are mad because Apple oftentimes will act like something is something they
0:42:13invented and it's not quite, but there's usually more to it than that.
0:42:17It's usually not Apple just saying, "Look, we invented this."
0:42:20It's Apple saying, you know, "We've done all these things and made them into this product
0:42:25that tells the story and that's different."
0:42:26Should we take a break?
0:42:28Yeah, let's do that.
0:42:29Let's thank our friends over at Igloo and then we'll address some stuff about the watch
0:42:33as well.
0:42:34I want to thank Igloo, the internet you'll actually like for helping support this week's
0:42:38episode of Upgrade. With igloo you can share news, organize your files, coordinate calendars
0:42:43and manage all of your projects and tasks all in one place. It's a fantastic way for
0:42:49you and your team to work together, socialise together no matter where they are in the world
0:42:53because igloo's platform is fantastic. It works on all manner of devices. It's built
0:42:59on the power of the responsive web. They use responsive design in all of their products
0:43:05across the entire thing is what it's built on. It's a fantastic product that allows you
0:43:09to make sure that when you're on a laptop, when you're on a phone, when you're on a tablet,
0:43:12you can access everything. This can come from managing your tasks, maybe sharing a photo
0:43:17of your lunch with your colleagues, maybe reading a document with a fantastic HTML5
0:43:22backed document previewing engine, or even managing your settings. You can do all of
0:43:26this on any device, wherever you want, however you want. I mentioned the document stuff a
0:43:30a moment ago. Igloo's latest upgrade, Viking, it revolves all around documents and how you
0:43:35interact with them. As well as beefing up their preview engine, this allows you to make
0:43:40sure that you're always up to date with the latest version of a document as people upload
0:43:44it to Igloo, they download it, it's really cool. But one of the new key things that they've
0:43:48added is the ability to track who has read critical information. So imagine like a read
0:43:53receipt in an email, you send an email off to somebody and then you get a notification
0:43:56back to tell you that they've read it. So sometimes that's useful because you know it's
0:43:59you can either question them about it or at least you know they've received it and it's good.
0:44:02You could have implemented this to documents. So let's say for example you're sending around
0:44:06a document to your colleagues which is a really essential piece of training documentation or legal
0:44:13documentation and you have to know that people have seen it and so they need to acknowledge it.
0:44:17Well you can do all of this now rather than like somebody running around the desk and getting
0:44:22everybody to put their initial on a piece of paper like they used to do in my old office,
0:44:25You would now, everyone just knows, like you should get a list of people who have seen it
0:44:29and then you can just go and talk to or nudge to people that haven't.
0:44:32It's really really cool and if you work in a company that has these kinds of needs,
0:44:36which are probably many, this is a really really nice addition to igloos platform.
0:44:40Igloo is super customisable, you can change how you want igloos to look
0:44:44and what functions you want to have, you can even do this with certain groups
0:44:48and all of the changes that you make show up everywhere, instantly.
0:44:51If your company has a legacy intranet that looks like it was built in the 90s,
0:44:54the 90s you should be giving igloo a try it's free to use of teams of up to 10
0:44:58people and you can sign up right now igloo software.com/upgrade and
0:45:02that will of course help out this show thank you so much to igloo for supporting
0:45:06today and all of real AFM.
0:45:10So we also have the watch what what has been your kind of feeling now about this
0:45:21What is my feeling about the watch? I feel, uh, no, it's, um, I'm starting to feel desire
0:45:29to buy the watch and use it. I've been thinking about it a lot more, and I mean, some of that
0:45:34is just, "Oh, new thing is coming." Um, that happens, but I, you know, I like the approach
0:45:43that Apple is taking. The presentation was simplified from the one six months ago. I
0:45:50I think it's, you know, focusing on keeping your phone in your pocket is a good thing
0:45:58or bag.
0:46:00A lot of women don't have pockets for phones.
0:46:02So having that thing on your wrist that you can very quickly see what's going on and look
0:46:11something up and dismiss it and have it be these short interactions, a few seconds.
0:46:15There have been pieces written that say, "Oh, no, this is even worse because it's going
0:46:19to put your phone on your wrist and it's going to make our little bubbles that we live in
0:46:24where we're not paying attention to the people around us even worse. That could be true,
0:46:28but the more I hear about how Apple's trying to approach this, the more I start to think
0:46:33that Apple is trying to do the reverse here. Apple is trying to make your interactions
0:46:39with the data from the internet and from your phone faster and easier and more convenient
0:46:44and more sort of seamless with the world around you.
0:46:47And I think that's a good thing.
0:46:49I think reducing the number of times
0:46:50we have to pull out our phone and stare at it
0:46:53in order to check on something,
0:46:55that we can do it much more quickly with a glance even,
0:46:58say, "Oh, that's not important,"
0:46:59or very quickly go, "Glance, tap, tap, done,"
0:47:02and then move on without having to get out our phone.
0:47:06I think those are admirable things.
0:47:08And if this device can pull that off,
0:47:11I think that's gonna be really powerful.
0:47:13the line that I've been using and I probably used on this show but I've used it on some
0:47:17other shows and some presentations I've given is the line about how, you know, a hundred
0:47:23years ago people decided that pocket watches were inconvenient and if we strapped a clock
0:47:29to our wrists that would be more convenient and it worked. And I think that principle
0:47:35may hold true again if it's done right. So I'm excited to try it out. I think that it
0:47:40could have a lot of value that goes beyond just being seen as a, you know, a
0:47:45redundant accessory for an iPhone and that pulling that phone out of your
0:47:49pocket is good enough because if they do their job right with this thing it won't
0:47:54be good enough. This will be better. This will make everything smoother and faster
0:47:58and I do think it has the potential to do that so I'm getting excited about it.
0:48:04What about the edition? Now we didn't really talk about the edition last week
0:48:09and I haven't heard your thoughts on it. Now that we know kind of very basic
0:48:18information about the edition, it's still shrouded in mystery which might be
0:48:22you know part of the whole mystique of the thing. What is your personal feeling
0:48:28on Apple offering a $17,000 watch?
0:48:35So I'm going to turn this around and make it about people like us talking about this.
0:48:41I think people are getting derailed by the edition and by the gold, the gold material
0:48:45and the price. I keep seeing stories that use the edition as a jumping off point for
0:48:50a rant about why Apple's totally lost the plot and they're doing crazy stuff with, for
0:48:56super rich and they're losing what they're all about. But I actually think that Apple
0:49:01was really soft peddling their talk about the addition. I do think the reason the Gold
0:49:06video wasn't played, the reason that there was one that the price wasn't put up on the
0:49:10screen and it was just sort of mentioned in passing is that, you know, Apple knows that
0:49:15there are people out there who will spend a huge amount of money. These are the people
0:49:18who will pay third parties to take iPhone cases apart
0:49:23and replace them with the actual case,
0:49:27not a case to wrap around the iPhone,
0:49:28but replace the actual case of the iPhone
0:49:30with carved wood or with solid gold
0:49:34because they're super rich
0:49:36and they want a super awesome iPhone
0:49:39and they can afford to pay for that.
0:49:41And I think there's a part of Apple that says,
0:49:43why not us, why don't we do that?
0:49:47And then when you talk about watches, there is a luxury segment to the watch.
0:49:50There are people who want gold watches, and I can totally understand them saying, "Well,
0:49:54we're just going to do a stainless steel watch and have everybody say, 'We're never going
0:49:56to get the rich and famous to wear our watch if all we have is a stainless steel model.
0:50:02We need a gold model.'"
0:50:03And at that point, you're talking about it like, "Well, that's so impractical."
0:50:06And I can totally see how that conversation becomes, "All right, fine.
0:50:10Who's that market?
0:50:11What's the market for a gold watch?
0:50:12If we sold a gold watch for $10,000, would some people buy it?
0:50:17Would that be the one that shows up in fashion spreads and in shots of celebrities on the
0:50:23red carpet and all of that?
0:50:24Yeah, probably so.
0:50:25And that's the one that the very rich people will buy, and we'll make it a limited edition.
0:50:30I think it's all tracks.
0:50:32I think it's why would we turn those people away if they want to give us a lot of money
0:50:35for a gold watch?
0:50:36But the point of the watch is not the gold version.
0:50:39And I think for its importance, maybe not culturally, but for its importance as a product,
0:50:49it gets way too much attention.
0:50:50In fact, we're giving it too much attention even by talking about it this way.
0:50:53I think it's just been over-talked and that nobody's going to buy it.
0:50:58The people who are going to buy it are people who've got lots and lots of money, and everybody
0:51:03else is going to be buying the sport or the adjective-less version. And, you know, that
0:51:09the product will live or die based on that and not the gold. So I think the gold is a
0:51:14big distraction. And I think it's one of the reasons why Apple sort of underplayed the
0:51:17gold model at the event was it's kind of, you know, it's kind of distracting people
0:51:24from the actual product. And they don't want it to be seen as an unattainable product.
0:51:28It is an attainable product. Like all of Apple's products, this is a, yes, it's a nice product.
0:51:33And you could even argue that it's a luxury product, but it's also a luxury product that
0:51:36starts at $350.
0:51:38And I think that's important to Apple, that it not get lost in the $17,000 model, that
0:51:43there is a $350 model.
0:51:44I actually don't think they're going to sell this in Apple stores at all.
0:51:49Well, they were very—I think they are going to sell it in select Apple stores.
0:51:53I think somebody, maybe Matthew Panzareno, got them to say that it will be in select
0:51:59Apple stores.
0:52:00Yeah, I think, is this where you're going with this?
0:52:04I think that it'll be in high-end jewelry stores
0:52:06and some Apple stores in really specific locations
0:52:10that have the place to do the high-end kind of sales
0:52:15and that's it.
0:52:16It's gonna be a super exclusive,
0:52:17it's gonna be where the people who shop
0:52:19for the fancy stuff like this are.
0:52:21It's not gonna be at the shopping mall
0:52:22in your local Apple store.
0:52:23- So the place is that I think it's gonna be,
0:52:25I think you're gonna get it in Regent Street in London.
0:52:28you're gonna get it in the New York glass cube one is that where is that is
0:52:34that fifth Avenue yeah there'll be one of the Paris stores and like maybe a
0:52:39store to in in China maybe one in Tokyo maybe one in Rome or Milan I think that
0:52:44will be it and then outside of that they will use the existing facilities of
0:52:50high-end department stores and I saw a picture today of a department store in
0:52:55Tokyo, I saw this on Twitter, but it looks like it's having a pop-up shop fitted
0:53:00into it. And I did see somebody tweet that Selfridges in London, a very large
0:53:06fancy department store, will have them. It answers so many of the problems that
0:53:11we've been asking ourselves for weeks as to how are they going to do this.
0:53:15They do this by just not having to worry about it and use the existing stores,
0:53:21those existing stores, all the security that they have, and just all the
0:53:26facilities that they have and the environments that they have to make
0:53:30people feel comfortable to buy these products. And they just kit them with
0:53:34some very specifically trained Apple employees and that's how it's done.
0:53:38And you go in by appointment and it's, you know, that's it. That's how
0:53:43they'll do it. And that way they don't have to worry about any of the
0:53:47stuff that we've been talking about about like teenagers selling $17,000
0:53:52watches to millionaires.
0:53:54"Would you like a gold watch?" We don't want that. I agree with you. I think there's a whole question about support and things like that and
0:54:02service, but high-end watches, if you look, there are a limited number of places
0:54:06that will service high-end watches too, and I'm sure that they would say, "Well, you
0:54:13can come back to this store," and they would have a connection with
0:54:17Apple and again it probably doesn't happen on site right it all gets shipped
0:54:21somewhere but the yes sir very very well sir we'll get this back to you in a week
0:54:24sir whatever it is. You just call the special telephone number that is in the box. Yeah
0:54:28exactly right you just press you just press on the box and think about service
0:54:31and it reads your mind and it teleports the watch to Apple but yeah or you take
0:54:37it down to your Apple store and they have got a and they've got a concierge
0:54:41service thing that happens where they just come out and go oh well thank you
0:54:44very much, ma'am, that, you know, yes, indeed, we'll put it in this leather, you know, case
0:54:48that's the special thing and it's magic and then we'll get it back to you immediately
0:54:52in its service. I'm sure they'll work that stuff out. But having access in the places
0:54:56where you would expect luxury, super luxury items to be sold is natural. Of course, that's
0:55:01gonna happen. Good news, Angela Ahrendts knows people in the high-end luxury retail game.
0:55:06So I think it's all gonna be fine. But yeah, I would expect that these will be in places
0:55:11that are not traditional Apple stores,
0:55:13as well as some of the highest of the fancy Apple stores.
0:55:17- Yeah. - Yeah, yeah.
0:55:18Union Square in San Francisco and Fifth Avenue in London,
0:55:22and there'll be some places like that,
0:55:24and whatever fashionable district in China, for sure,
0:55:29'cause that's definitely a focus of Apple's too.
0:55:31Anyway, one other item about the watch
0:55:34that I wanted to talk about,
0:55:36which is Greg Koenig, who does Luma Labs.
0:55:40they do the Luma Loop, did a blog post on his site Atomic Delights talking about how
0:55:49Apple makes the Apple Watch with lots and it's been linked a lot but I wanted to mention
0:55:53it because it's great. I love that story. It is from somebody who knows a lot about
0:55:59manufacturing about Apple's strengths in manufacturing and how for certain materials with certain
0:56:04methods Apple is essentially the leader and we don't think of them I mean he starts by
0:56:09saying Apple is the leader in manufactured goods in the world. And the way he puts it
0:56:15is I used, at one time I would have said consumer goods are electronic goods, but as he puts
0:56:21it last quarter Apple shipped a Boeing 787's weight worth of iPhones every day. And he
0:56:28said when we add the rest of the product line to the mix, it becomes clear Apple supply
0:56:33chain is one of the largest scale production organizations in the world. Apple is the world's
0:56:36foremost manufacturer of goods." And then he talks in detail about how like Apple does
0:56:42things with aluminum or aluminium, if you prefer, that nobody else does. I knew you're
0:56:48like that. He says, "It would be hard to argue Apple isn't the world's foremost expert on
0:56:53the volume production of high precision, high finish aluminum components." It's a fascinating
0:56:59perspective on how one of Apple's great advantages is that Apple has not only the scale and the
0:57:05money but the knowledge about making things, making physical objects, working
0:57:11with metal, working on these massive machines that have to be used to process
0:57:17this stuff. And so then he goes through the three videos that Apple showed.
0:57:21And in a, you know, you know how nerds will do frame-by-frame analysis of an
0:57:29Avengers trailer to say, "Look, those eyes, that must be the vision." And we know
0:57:34that Paul Bettany is playing the vision and he played Jarvis and what does that mean?
0:57:37Is Jarvis related to Ultron in some way? They'll do that kind of Zapruder analysis, the frame-by-frame
0:57:44with the Zapruder film from the Kennedy assassination is what that reference is where people would
0:57:48take it like in JFK the movie back and to the left back and to the left like we're through
0:57:52the rabbit hole here people we're looking at every individual frame of this video and
0:57:56it's going to tell us something. Well Greg does that with these three materials videos
0:57:59gold, stainless steel, and aluminum.
0:58:04And it's great.
0:58:05And you don't have to be an engineer to appreciate it, because I'm not, and I really loved it.
0:58:10I thought it was fascinating to see how they make this stuff and what it means about sort
0:58:14of like Apple's expertise in areas that as users of your product would be completely
0:58:20invisible to you, users of Apple's products, completely invisible.
0:58:24But they still have to do them.
0:58:27It's one of the ways Apple's products end up being as good as they are, is because of
0:58:32this expertise that we don't even see. So it's fascinating. So I just wanted to put
0:58:35in a plug for Greg's thing, because it's awesome. So we'll put the link in the show notes. It's
0:58:42at AtomicDelights.com.
0:58:43I've been thinking a bit about this kind of stuff recently, like having worked, I worked
0:58:49for a massive, massive organization previously to this, and like, there are so many things
0:58:56that Apple does that they don't have to do. And I think that's what
0:59:01fundamentally sets them apart from everybody else. Like with the amount of
0:59:06money that they make and these sorts of things, there are so many things, so many
0:59:10details that they talk about, the things that they do with the way that they
0:59:14produce these products, that they could actually just do it for cheaper or do it
0:59:20easier but it just seems like that they make very specific decisions about the
0:59:24where the products are made due to a level of care and love that some of
0:59:29their competitors don't seem to have. I know I'm not saying nothing that's
0:59:32new but from the perspective of somebody who worked in a really really
0:59:36large organization and I have no doubt that Apple have their own organizational
0:59:40issues and struggles like you know with a middle management level type you know
0:59:44stuff that goes on on a day-to-day basis it just seems like so many of the
0:59:49decisions and that they make come from a place which is very very different to
0:59:55some of the other companies, especially companies of that size. Yeah, it's a lot
1:00:01of Apple's competitors are companies that buy components and maybe they've
1:00:07got some expertise in putting together a plastic shell or a metal shell, but Apple
1:00:11because I think because of its history, because of it having to do a lot of
1:00:15stuff itself and wanting to be self-reliant and build custom stuff, not the ADB ports
1:00:22and serial ports and all of old, but we want—how do you stand out? How do you make something
1:00:27different? And the unibody enclosures on the laptops were like that. They've ended up building
1:00:32up this crazy expertise. When Tim Cook started at Apple, there was a time when Apple was
1:00:37a kind of laughing stock in terms of its supply chain. It had way too much inventory. Dell
1:00:43was held out as the extreme example of good kind of in-time inventory. You don't have
1:00:48stuff hanging around in your warehouses or anything like that. Over the course of the
1:00:53last 15 years or whatever, 15 or 20 years, Apple has become this monster of efficiency.
1:01:00And that goes to all of these different parts of its business. And their competitors, you
1:01:05know, I don't want to say they all don't do that, but most of them don't do most of it.
1:01:10And you know, if you're Apple, people say, "Why is Apple so successful?
1:01:14Why does Apple have so much market share and profit share in all these different categories?"
1:01:19This is one reason why.
1:01:21There was a story that I linked to a while ago that was in a similar vein to Greg Canig's
1:01:27story, and it was about how it was from, I think, a venture capitalist or a president
1:01:34of a startup saying, "Don't try to make your product at Apple's level of quality, because
1:01:40you can't, because Apple has mastered this.
1:01:45And if you're expecting Apple levels of fit and finish, give up.
1:01:49That's what it's required.
1:01:50You can't do it because only Apple can do that and maybe some others very few.
1:01:56It is really a thing that they're great at."
1:01:58And we see it in their products, but we don't know just how much goes on behind the scenes.
1:02:03It's not like some of their competitors are choosing not to make products that have the
1:02:08fit and finish of Apple's products.
1:02:09It's that they can't.
1:02:11And that's a huge advantage for Apple.
1:02:12You probably can't afford it.
1:02:14I would assume that a product like the MacBook, the margins on that at the moment must be
1:02:19really bad, I would assume.
1:02:21I mean, I don't know.
1:02:22Just by thinking about these things, if you've had to create new machinery and you've had
1:02:27to spend all this time in R&D and all this time trying to work out how can we do this,
1:02:31can we do this?" And you go round and round and round on it, and then eventually, you
1:02:35know, ultimately you're creating tools, parts, machinery, processes. Like, it must be painful.
1:02:41Paying your manufacturing company's money to buy, to build factories for you, which
1:02:47is something that they do. "Here, just go build a factory to do this."
1:02:50And, you know, because then ultimately they know that if they do that, they will be rolling
1:02:56in cash after X amount of time. But the thing is, is other companies don't have the money
1:03:01on hand where they can do that kind of stuff. You know what you're saying about inventory
1:03:05management a moment ago? One thing that really helps your inventory management is when people
1:03:09can't stop buying your products. That's a really great way to manage your inventory.
1:03:14That does help. But yeah, it's just something I've been thinking about. They're just...
1:03:22It's not new to anyone, but just when you see these new products, entirely new products
1:03:28coming from Apple. It just gives you pause for thought when you watch those stunning
1:03:32marketing videos.
1:03:34It's true. Do we want to move on to Ask Upgrade now?
1:03:41Yeah, we most definitely do. This week's episode features an Ask Upgrade segment that
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1:06:02Indeed.
1:06:03All right, do you want to ask me things?
1:06:07Yes, oh, I'd love to ask you things. So this comes from a listener David, "The Retina MacBook Pro got the
1:06:12false touch trackpad but not the keyboard change seen in the MacBook. Why, Jason?"
1:06:17My guess is that they're not... That new MacBook keyboard doesn't have a lot of travel. It seems to
1:06:27have been built very specifically for the super thin laptop and it's not really necessary in the
1:06:32the retina MacBook Pro, they may even be waiting to see how people feel about that keyboard.
1:06:38I'm on the fence about the keyboard. I'm pretty skeptical about it. It worked, but it felt
1:06:42weird to me. I want to give it some time. I want to try one out for a while and judge
1:06:47it, but that's asking a lot to get everybody who's using your Pro laptop to now use this
1:06:54brand new, slightly weird keyboard. So I think it's some combination of it being new and
1:07:02it being strange and it really being built for the super thin laptop and not being required
1:07:09in the MacBook.
1:07:12It strikes me that that keyboard is more of a compromise in order to get something that's
1:07:16thin, whereas the Force Touch, I think Apple views that as being not a compromise, but
1:07:22actually an enhancement that everybody could use and want the Force Touch trackpad, because
1:07:28it not only is it thinner and then helps them build that thing thinner but it's
1:07:31also better because it has the same features of a physical trackpad but you
1:07:35can click all over it and you can you can use software to have multiple clicks
1:07:39built into it and so I think that may be the difference is that you know they're
1:07:43adding the thing that is is a feature enhancement and not the thing that is
1:07:47more like a compromise.
1:07:50So I have my own theory about this as well that the
1:07:54force touch trackpad can be put into the existing MacBook case relatively easily
1:07:59whilst the new keyboard if they did want to do it they would need to change the
1:08:04spacing of the keys on the keyboard. It's just so it's such a radically different
1:08:07thing yeah that may be too that it was a much easier swap although I don't know
1:08:11I'm a little surprised that they that they swapped in the force touch trackpad
1:08:15too but it may be that that was something they could do and that the
1:08:19other they couldn't do without a bigger redesign of the of the product I don't
1:08:23now. It's a good theory. Yeah, so there you go. This is from listener Scott. He had a
1:08:30little thought. When you plug an iPhone into the new MacBook, does the iPhone charge the
1:08:34Mac or the Mac the iPhone? That one made me laugh, you know. You could, it's bi-directional
1:08:41charging. When they do a USB, I don't know whether USB-C can specifically say whether
1:08:47something is charging or charged, whether a device can say I'm only available to be
1:08:52charged and not to charge other things? I don't know. It's a good question. We'll have
1:08:57to try that out, perhaps. But you will need I think you'll need a USB C. You'll need a
1:09:06USB C iPhone for that to happen. And that may never happen because the the lightning
1:09:13provides power out but does not know. No, it takes it both ways because it can power
1:09:17a little device. I bet it can't power the amount of power that is required by the MacBook
1:09:21though so I think it would probably say nope can't do that so with the adapter
1:09:25we'll see it's a funny it's a funny idea one of the things that we should mention
1:09:31is USB C being a standard you're gonna be able to have USB C chargers from
1:09:37third parties that work with a MacBook which is great like external battery
1:09:40packs and airline adapters and things like that because Apple's no longer
1:09:45using a proprietary connector to charge the MacBook MagSafe was Apple proprietary
1:09:50and that meant there weren't a lot of MagSafe things out there,
1:09:53but there'll be a lot of USB-C things,
1:09:56and that's good for the MacBook.
1:09:59-Listener Jorge is interested to know if --
1:10:04So he said the Space Gray,
1:10:05so I think this is kind of the confusion,
1:10:08but actually, is the Space Black watch
1:10:10as dark as it appears in the picture?
1:10:11-No. -Is it darker than the Space Gray
1:10:13on the iPhone? -So here's the thing.
1:10:14There is a Space Gray Apple Watch Sport,
1:10:18and there is a space black apple watch adjective-less.
1:10:22The space black is that shiny, it's in the video of the
1:10:26it's the shiny diamond-like carbon that is added
1:10:30on top of the stainless steel, whereas the space gray is an anodized
1:10:36aluminum on the apple watch sport and
1:10:41in the pictures it looks darker. I don't think I saw that one enough to judge it.
1:10:45My guess is that it's the closest, but I don't know.
1:10:50I can't confirm whether it is as dark.
1:10:53It does appear darker in the pictures.
1:10:55The one that's jet black is the space black though.
1:10:58So they differentiate it with the space gray.
1:11:00I, you know, remains to be seen.
1:11:02My guess is that it may actually be a little bit darker
1:11:05than the iPhone, but that could also just be
1:11:06an optical illusion.
1:11:07We held the gold iPhone against the gold aluminum
1:11:12of the MacBook and they're basically the same.
1:11:15So it looks like Apple wants these to be color matched.
1:11:18So it would be a failing on their part
1:11:20if they called something space gray and it didn't match.
1:11:22So my hope is that it does and it's just photographic
1:11:24but I can't confirm that.
1:11:25- Cool.
1:11:28What else do we have here?
1:11:29So listener Nicholas, how does the watch connectivity work
1:11:33when it's parent iPhone?
1:11:35- When it and its parents iPhone
1:11:38are on the same wifi network.
1:11:41The watch has Wi-Fi, and this is a conversation
1:11:45I heard somewhere last week.
1:11:46I can't remember where this came up,
1:11:47but the idea here, maybe it was on MacBreak Weekly,
1:11:51the idea here is that if you've got a Pebble like I do,
1:11:55and you walk 15 feet away from your iPhone,
1:11:57'cause your iPhone is charging somewhere,
1:11:59it loses the connection, the Bluetooth connection drops.
1:12:02Apple Watch has Wi-Fi and Bluetooth,
1:12:04and apparently Apple has said that if your phone
1:12:07and your watch are on the same Wi-Fi network,
1:12:09they can still talk to each other.
1:12:10So you can plug in your phone and then roam around your home
1:12:14and it's all your same wifi network.
1:12:16And as long as the watch is on wifi
1:12:17and the iPhone is on wifi, they stay connected
1:12:19and they stay sharing data, which is awesome.
1:12:22That's a great feature because I'm not always
1:12:26right next to my phone and my watch stays with me, right?
1:12:29Because it's strapped to my wrist,
1:12:31but I put my phone down sometimes.
1:12:33So what this is saying is if you're on the same wifi network
1:12:36as your phone, they'll stay in touch, which is cool.
1:12:39And we have, this is someone from the chat room, D-N-W-R-L-D, Dan World is what I'm going
1:12:50for.
1:12:51Dan World.
1:12:52Can we get a quick recap of what models you and Jason are leaning towards?
1:12:55Jason, what are your thoughts?
1:12:56Is it the gold with the red band?
1:12:59Like you told me privately the other day you were going to buy?
1:13:03It turns out the indie podcasting and writing thing is so lucrative that I'm able to buy
1:13:0717,000 dollar Apple Gold watch with no problems. I am torn. I am torn between the black sport
1:13:19and then buying an add-on leather band because I do not believe that the fluoro elastomer band
1:13:31will please me. So then I would buy the leather band and it wouldn't be an exact match but it
1:13:37it would be cheaper, or buying the stainless steel in black with a leather band. Okay. But I'm gonna
1:13:53go, although I also want to try the Milanese loop because I didn't get a chance to try that on
1:13:59at the event, and I want to try that because I've had people say that it doesn't pull arm hairs and
1:14:04stuff like that that it's super gentle and I want to see how it looks and how it feels and whether
1:14:09I'd consider that instead of a leather band but I've been a leather watch band guy my whole life
1:14:16I don't like the the plastic bands the first thing I did with my pebble in fact was replace the crappy
1:14:23plastic band with a with a leather band so we'll see. So I'm going sport um definitely because I
1:14:31like you just think for my taste the aluminium looks nicer than the steel and
1:14:37we're gonna go with the standard silver one and I'm thinking I'm probably gonna
1:14:43get just like a crazy bright coloured strap like I might go like blue or
1:14:47something just for fun but I I will be buying another strap that I will wear on
1:14:52a daily basis it will either be the black sport strap or I'll get one of the
1:14:57other ones. For my secondary strap I'm not sure. I may just buy the black one
1:15:03and then after I've had a bit more time I'm gonna go and take a look at some of
1:15:10the others and get a feeling for what additional strap I want to buy. I am
1:15:16tempted to go to an Apple store on April 10th but I'm also terrified of the thought.
1:15:19Yeah, yeah I think you can make an appointment.
1:15:25then I'll do that. To come see the watches. I will have already ordered mine but I
1:15:29just want to go and take a look at the straps a bit more. Right, right. Yeah I
1:15:34think one of the challenges I have between the sport and the
1:15:38adjective list model is that the sport has got the you know it's the ionics
1:15:42strengthened glass whereas the the adjective list one is the is the sapphire
1:15:50so presumably it's more it's heavier but also a little more damage resistant but
1:15:59I'm not sure whether that's enough of a thing to matter versus just choosing a
1:16:03look but the black one the space gray actually that we talked about
1:16:07earlier is the one that I'm very tempted to to get but but you know I haven't
1:16:13decided 100% yet I just I'm tempted by the coming over to the dark side and I
1:16:17I like the dark watch thing, so I'm thinking about that.
1:16:21But I do like the stainless steel look, too.
1:16:23It looks very nice.
1:16:25-Listen to Kevin.
1:16:26"Can you use Apple Pay on the Apple Watch
1:16:28if you don't have an iPhone 6?"
1:16:30-Yes.
1:16:32I think we heard that from Apple or somebody.
1:16:35I know at the event, somebody I talked to said
1:16:37that it should work with the Apple --
1:16:39or with the iPhone 5, that the secure thing in the watch
1:16:43can be loaded with Apple Pay, and it should work.
1:16:47I haven't confirmed that, but I believe that's the case, that you can actually use Apple
1:16:51Pay on the watch.
1:16:52>> I remember them saying that specifically, so that's great.
1:16:56>> Yeah, that's awesome.
1:16:57Right, because you can use the 5 with the watch, so you can also use the secure features
1:17:01of the watch to use Apple Pay, even though you've got a 5.
1:17:05That's cool.
1:17:06>> So listener Dan Jason is interested how the kind of the feature to turn on and off
1:17:12as you are raising it the watch to and from your face works and in reality is that a good
1:17:19way to check the time?
1:17:20- Yeah, I only checked this briefly but it seemed to me that the whole idea here is the
1:17:25sensors are paying attention and trying to divine from your movements whether you're
1:17:30looking at it and it worked pretty well to me.
1:17:34When I would lift my wrist or turn my wrist to look at it, it lit up and showed me the
1:17:38time.
1:17:39it seems to work pretty well.
1:17:41That it's not like with the Pebble,
1:17:42the screen's always on,
1:17:44but the backlight turns on with a certain amount of like a
1:17:48tap, but you really have to kind of like whack it hard to
1:17:51get it to light up.
1:17:52And the Apple watch, you know,
1:17:54I would glance at it and it would have the screen would come
1:17:56on and show me the time.
1:17:57So that's how it should be.
1:17:59So it seemed to work,
1:18:00but I didn't spend a lot of time with it.
1:18:01This is one of those products that, you know,
1:18:02we're all going to really need to live with them to really
1:18:05form more clear, clear opinions about them.
1:18:08Yeah, see, because my feeling about the purple was it was so hard to come on so it doesn't
1:18:13trigger accidentally and that was where they drew the line.
1:18:16So it's like in daily use, does the Apple Watch turn on all the time?
1:18:20You know, they're the things that we don't know yet which we'll have to wait and see.
1:18:24Has Apple really nailed it or is it more sensitive?
1:18:29We'll have to wait.
1:18:30Okay, so this is from listener Timokas.
1:18:33What a great name.
1:18:34I want to know how to say that properly.
1:18:36That is a great name.
1:18:38Do you agree that all iOS devices will be false sensitive this year, so a false touch?
1:18:43I don't.
1:18:44I think the iPad will be next and then the iPhone will wait for iPhone 7.
1:18:49I don't think that...
1:18:51I think that's too big of a thing for the S, but I would love to be corrected.
1:18:57But I would be surprised if we saw it in the iPhone 6 Plus S's.
1:19:04I agree with your general premise that this is not going to happen this year in all devices.
1:19:11I think there's a decent chance that it could happen in an updated iPhone or an updated
1:19:18iPad.
1:19:19I think I'm not sure.
1:19:23The iPad might be a little more likely, but I think it's possible it would happen in the
1:19:26iPad Air and in the iPhone.
1:19:29They're both chances.
1:19:31All iOS devices I think not because I think the iPad mini is going to be lagging behind
1:19:36now one generation at least behind the iPad Air.
1:19:41Kind of where it should have been always.
1:19:43Boo, boo-sss.
1:19:45Well, no, I mean like they, but then Apple kind of...
1:19:48I'm an iPad mini user so I'd really rather it stay, have stayed on the line with the
1:19:55iPad Air instead of going back a step.
1:19:57I agree. I mean I do agree that naturally but I just think that there I think that that time when it matched up was a
1:20:03Was a I don't know why they did that but it was maybe a mistake
1:20:07To trick people into thinking that this was gonna be what happened that the iPad main was gonna be this tiny powerhouse
1:20:16Yeah, well not anymore
1:20:18But anyway, I do think that iOS devices are going to get for sensitivity and and taptic engine
1:20:24I think that's going to happen and we'll see it start to spread into the line from one
1:20:29device or the other.
1:20:30I think that'll happen.
1:20:31I think the home button being replaced with a location that you touch and that gives you
1:20:37taptic feedback so that they don't have to have the moving in and out home button anymore.
1:20:42And moving in and out touch ID sensor, they can keep that a non-moving part.
1:20:47I think that would probably be preferable.
1:20:49So I think it's going to happen.
1:20:50I think it's just a matter of time.
1:20:52I don't think all will be this year, but I would not be surprised to see an iOS device
1:20:57with force sensitivity this year.
1:21:01False touch is the new retina.
1:21:03Yeah, I think so.
1:21:05I think Apple feels like this is a thing that they can innovate with, and that's why.
1:21:10Like putting it in the Mac and having those shortcuts, that seems to be them saying this
1:21:16is going to come everywhere in the Mac, because they've added all these different gestures
1:21:22now on the Mac and they only work on one laptop, or two laptops with a 13 Retina update. So
1:21:29that's going to have to change because right now it's just this, you know, you can't count
1:21:33on that gesture being there.
1:21:35This is from Phil. How many years until Apple devices are shipping with only USB-C ports
1:21:41including iPhones and iPads?
1:21:43Ha ha! I love these specific things that make the question easier to answer. I'm not sure
1:21:49I believe that iPhones and iPads will ship with only USB-C ports for years, if ever.
1:21:56I'm not sure that's a drop-in replacement for Lightning. You know, Apple appears to
1:22:01have had advanced knowledge of USB-C and still gone ahead building Lightning. Lightning is
1:22:08thinner. Lightning has some very specific features that Apple wants iOS devices to have.
1:22:15gets to control that port and choose what connects to it because they own the
1:22:19connector and they have to license it. I think I think every Mac that's sold will
1:22:28have a USB C port by the end of next year. Because they'll just update the
1:22:35whole line irrespective of anything else maybe. Yeah and there'll be some straggler you
1:22:39know there'll be some straggler but in the fall there'll be new Macs there'll
1:22:42be iMacs that have a USB-C port and eventually the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro will add USB-C
1:22:50ports and so I think I feel like 2016 might be a good like end of 2016. All the new systems
1:22:56maybe there'll still be something kicking around that's like an old model that's still
1:22:59for sale like the non-Retina MacBook Pro but I think we're gonna see USB-C not only well
1:23:07they're saying only USB-C I don't see that happening for years that's gonna be a long
1:23:11time before we have only USB-C even on the Mac. I think it'll appear in the next year
1:23:15and a half but only... That doesn't make sense. That's never, never,
1:23:21never I would say because there will always be other ports on Macs.
1:23:24It doesn't make sense to replace everything. Yeah, on every model, yeah, I don't think
1:23:30so. The fact that Apple never went with mini-USB
1:23:35tells you everything you need to know about the iPhone and the iPad in my opinion because
1:23:39they could have solved the 30 pin size problem with one of those bad boys a long time ago.
1:23:46They even went so far as to create this EU specific weird adapter because of EU laws
1:23:51that make them do it. They're never gonna go with a non-controllable, completely Apple
1:23:57controllable standard on iOS and iPad because they don't need to.
1:24:01So thanks to Phil for throwing in enough absolutes that it made it a much easier question.
1:24:05- Yep, and also to prove how wrong we'll be in the future.
1:24:08So I look forward to that.
1:24:09And finally today, this is from Mark.
1:24:12Is Apple Watch considered an iOS device
1:24:14or is it a third OS?
1:24:16That's a really great question.
1:24:17- Yeah, it is.
1:24:18My guess is that we'll consider it an iOS device
1:24:20like we consider the Apple TV an iOS device,
1:24:23because I think from a development standpoint,
1:24:26you know, watch kit and everything that's going on,
1:24:28this is all coming from an iOS perspective.
1:24:31So I'm gonna guess that when developers can compile apps
1:24:35that actually run on the watch, they will be iOS apps with some very specific
1:24:42traits, but they will be iOS apps is my guess. So I think this is going to
1:24:46be an iOS app in the--or iOS device in the same way as the Apple TV, which is you
1:24:51kind of don't think of it as that, and it's not the mainstream iOS, it's a
1:24:55variation, but I think in the end we will probably just consider this an
1:24:59iOS app.
1:25:00Yeah, I feel like maybe it's more than the Apple TV, because it shares more parallels
1:25:07with other iOS devices than the Apple TV does. Like the Apple TV interface is like web-based,
1:25:13right? It's this weird thing, like stuff could just show up. And also, you know, developers can
1:25:18develop for it, there's an app store for it. Like it feels more iOS than the Apple TV does to me,
1:25:25anyway. Yeah, well the Apple TV, I think everybody's hoping that they will eventually
1:25:29announced in Apple TV that has developer access to develop apps that are more
1:25:34than the the really simple things that are in there now but that just that
1:25:37rumors been out there for a while it just hasn't happened yet but the
1:25:40potential is there but I think you're right out of the box the the watch is
1:25:43gonna feel more like an iOS device than Apple TV that's the end that is it
1:25:49excellent stuff thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of
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1:27:29Fat travels. Thank you.
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