The Incomparable

1: We`ll Always Have Zeppelins

 

  the uncomfortable part cup number 1 i'll [TS]

  go vegan and welcome to the incomparable [TS]

  podcast this is jason Snell i am your [TS]

  host what will the incomparable podcast [TS]

  be well it's a good question i'm not [TS]

  sure we know the actual answer to that [TS]

  question [TS]

  we're hoping you'll let us know here's [TS]

  the idea the idea is to get a bunch of [TS]

  people I know together who are will [TS]

  admit a little bit on the geeky side and [TS]

  talk about things that you would [TS]

  probably call geek culture sci-fi comic [TS]

  books fantasy maybe a little bit across [TS]

  genres so I think the way this is going [TS]

  to work is every week we're going to [TS]

  have a new genre we're going to start [TS]

  this week with books sci-fi novels in [TS]

  particular next week move on to comic [TS]

  books and then in forthcoming weeks [TS]

  we'll throw in movies and TV and who [TS]

  knows what else maybe we'll do a special [TS]

  music edition and talk about Kiki music [TS]

  or something I don't know [TS]

  anyway that's the premise I've gathered [TS]

  several of my friends in the technology [TS]

  business actually but where else to find [TS]

  people and today we're going to get [TS]

  started with a discussion of sci-fi [TS]

  novels [TS]

  joining me is Scott McNulty hello Scott [TS]

  hello Jason it's good to have you here [TS]

  you're very well-read gentlemen I i [TS]

  dunno how to read [TS]

  that's good that's what well-read means [TS]

  is he you read well Dan more'n as well [TS]

  from far away on the in the eastern part [TS]

  of the United States hello Dan [TS]

  hello from far away ru well-read i'm [TS]

  told that I've been read like a book [TS]

  that is that what that means [TS]

  well read then yes now that is a second [TS]

  definition of what it means and from the [TS]

  the Great Northwest Glenn Fleischman [TS]

  joins whole England right from the echo [TS]

  travel SF Seattle yes where the Sun has [TS]

  finally come out now well had didn't [TS]

  happen inside let's go today and when ru [TS]

  well-read I am obsessively well-read [TS]

  alright or excessively excessively you [TS]

  know you're over red perhaps most [TS]

  perfect i read i read way too much go [TS]

  ahead and that's true there's so much [TS]

  going out there to read i'm writing an [TS]

  article as we speak [TS]

  well that explains everything I believe [TS]

  we all read the syfy do you read mostly [TS]

  a sci-fi or do you mix in other stuff [TS]

  with it i find myself reading a lot of [TS]

  nonfiction lately alongside like sci-fi [TS]

  I haven't found it's funny it's like [TS]

  fiction is sort of too much for me at [TS]

  the moment but science fiction i can [TS]

  read that distance a little further or [TS]

  you know interesting nonfiction that [TS]

  it's engrossing but it doesn't get you [TS]

  as emotionally tied up [TS]

  what about you damn i'm kind of [TS]

  omnivorous but i would say it's largely [TS]

  focused on the science fiction and [TS]

  fantasy i read a lot of mystery to know [TS]

  as much as like my mother who is like an [TS]

  exclusively like mystery reader but I [TS]

  read these around mystery and then you [TS]

  know if somebody else recommends a good [TS]

  book to me i will almost certainly pick [TS]

  it up but mostly sci-fi/fantasy whereby [TS]

  you got i read a lot of sci-fi fantasy i [TS]

  also read mysteries that are set in [TS]

  historical periods because I like to [TS]

  read very niche books is only three [TS]

  people will read them i will be one [TS]

  about that that's a great John because [TS]

  you can actually read every single book [TS]

  is published in it it's true all five of [TS]

  them exactly so you know I irie I've [TS]

  been reading a lot of books that involve [TS]

  detectives in eighteen hundreds New York [TS]

  it's a good that's a good specific very [TS]

  you know linkedin time in place i'm [TS]

  gonna start writing books like that [TS]

  because i don't have an audience now at [TS]

  least one there are four people who [TS]

  would be very happy to expect as long as [TS]

  I can read on my Kindle robotic but it's [TS]

  a little known fact that Scott McNulty [TS]

  has the largest collection of electronic [TS]

  book readers in the world it's true and [TS]

  yet when we asked him if he had read the [TS]

  city in the city which is one of the [TS]

  books i want to talk about his comment [TS]

  was that he bought in hardcover [TS]

  oh and hasn't read it Scott you've got [TS]

  like 15 or creators why do you buy [TS]

  something in hardcover or is that are [TS]

  you just an equal-opportunity formatting [TS]

  guy i I just I just like to spend money [TS]

  so if I see something I will buy it [TS]

  immediately [TS]

  guys he's being a little disingenuous as [TS]

  i know for a fact that he's got a table [TS]

  that's a bit wobbly in his kitchen and [TS]

  the kindle just isn't picking off of [TS]

  them was too thick and you know scott [TS]

  pilgrim was too thin but the city the [TS]

  city was just right just right [TS]

  exactly have you guys all started to [TS]

  read stuff I know Scott has huh [TS]

  and i have on eBook readers vs vs paper [TS]

  you know I i did i read a few things on [TS]

  my iPad but I got to be honest for me it [TS]

  comes out of me being cheap because i [TS]

  read so many books that like if I have [TS]

  to buy everything in ebook format it [TS]

  quickly becomes a very expensive hobby [TS]

  and as this also the son of to [TS]

  librarians I am I am mandated that I [TS]

  must go to the library so i actually get [TS]

  most of my stuff in the library still [TS]

  I'm married to a librarian and I still [TS]

  buy ebooks what about You Glenn this is [TS]

  the same problem i had i was spending an [TS]

  enormous amount of money on books a few [TS]

  years ago and I realized with two [TS]

  children and the same amount of space in [TS]

  the house that one thing had to go and i [TS]

  decided to keep the children and stop [TS]

  buying books and get rid of the book so [TS]

  I you know ebooks are great but I'm [TS]

  doing library lot and you know I'd am [TS]

  buying ebooks when I think the value is [TS]

  there when I think I'll read something [TS]

  again I got the city in the city for [TS]

  instance i got that the library love to [TS]

  pieces figured i'm going to read that at [TS]

  least one more time which i have since [TS]

  then and i bought a used copy of it in [TS]

  paperback figuring that was the best [TS]

  format for that particular you know [TS]

  books enjoyment [TS]

  so the city in the city by and I'm going [TS]

  to get this name wrong its it's China [TS]

  Mieville is that right i think the evil [TS]

  i think it might be a naval yeah that [TS]

  was me evil maybe I'll take me evil [TS]

  example yes it's it's ish you know just [TS]

  looks like that first name spelled china [TS]

  right and it's a gentleman [TS]

  it's an it's a my wife was like no [TS]

  that's totally a girl I'm like it's [TS]

  really not and I showed her picture into [TS]

  no it's not if he's like he looks like [TS]

  it's not really bald you know like [TS]

  mr.clean dress kind of English and he's [TS]

  an Englishman to so you know that he [TS]

  bawled Englishman he could tell with my [TS]

  China I mean clearly clearly he's gotten [TS]

  top anyway sitting the city nominated [TS]

  for Hugo word for you know best sci-fi [TS]

  novel of the year and three of us have [TS]

  read it so Scott you might have to be [TS]

  the referee on this one but it's a [TS]

  fascinating book and I know that I Glenn [TS]

  actually prime the pump for me a little [TS]

  bit with this one because he declared [TS]

  before i had started it that he wasn't [TS]

  sure it was sci-fi or not but that it [TS]

  was great and so I went in reading it [TS]

  and I read the whole thing sort of [TS]

  trying to detect [TS]

  there I thought that it was truly [TS]

  science fictional or whether it was all [TS]

  just in my head and and then it could [TS]

  all be explained kind of normally so I [TS]

  think the premise here is that there are [TS]

  these two cities that are actually this [TS]

  sir sorry Scott that are actually the [TS]

  same city but they're consensually they [TS]

  don't see each other they try not to see [TS]

  each other so they're kind of overlaid [TS]

  in terms of geography but for political [TS]

  reasons they are two separate cities [TS]

  with two separate geographies even [TS]

  though they are overlaid said or did I [TS]

  know it's not like that at all Jason [TS]

  that's not what the book is only [TS]

  visiting operate they occupy two [TS]

  slightly different vibrating planes in [TS]

  space yeah well it's i5n isn't it crowd [TS]

  really miss read that book then or is [TS]

  why would i would argue it's a it's a [TS]

  mystery in some ways to what is it is a [TS]

  police you know it's my I so it's I've [TS]

  cedral to our central yes set in a [TS]

  setting a very interesting environment [TS]

  if it were only set in 1802 new york [TS]

  city i totally would have read it [TS]

  already York City and New Jersey occupy [TS]

  the same point in space in that book [TS]

  well I mean I don't know the experience [TS]

  I had when reading this was and I read [TS]

  it awhile back so i might be a little [TS]

  fuzzy but I think I very vividly [TS]

  remember the first few pages where [TS]

  you're trying to figure out exactly [TS]

  what's going on in terms of this work [TS]

  because you're just kind of thrown into [TS]

  it right it doesn't actually I yeah [TS]

  you're right yeah and you you have to [TS]

  start putting it together and seeing [TS]

  like you you're so we're seeing it [TS]

  through the the eyes of the protagonist [TS]

  who is a police inspector and he's so [TS]

  accustomed to this this consensual [TS]

  agreement that we don't see the people [TS]

  from the other city that as someone who [TS]

  is like you know we're basically [TS]

  tourists in this in this strange realm [TS]

  and so we're kind of challenge to figure [TS]

  out what's going on from the perspective [TS]

  of someone who is always lived there and [TS]

  thus is perfectly in tune with this [TS]

  whole idea that will make the [TS]

  provocative statement that one of that [TS]

  it that the book rewires your brain as [TS]

  you read it uh-huh and what I am to [TS]

  follow up i think the best science [TS]

  fiction the best science fiction for me [TS]

  that I like our books that try to rewire [TS]

  your brain while you read [TS]

  NM is one of those yes I'm extend this [TS]

  certainly is that like as i'm reading [TS]

  the book and i'm getting the perspective [TS]

  from you I think skilled or something [TS]

  like that you feel right yeah funeral [TS]

  and i'm getting his perspective in as I [TS]

  trying to see through his eyes [TS]

  my head is kind of doing this why can't [TS]

  really think that way and like okay I've [TS]

  almost got it and you know they don't [TS]

  think wait a minute can't be quite that [TS]

  way and then evil brings up something [TS]

  that's you have an objection well dogs [TS]

  can't see this pets can't see this and [TS]

  in passing he'll explain how that works [TS]

  or wolves or children or children [TS]

  violence all the time then explains how [TS]

  there's exceptions and you're like well [TS]

  who would enforce such a relationship [TS]

  and then oh well there's another party [TS]

  that comes out so he keeps promise [TS]

  anticipates as your brain is as [TS]

  rewriting its own ability to perceive [TS]

  this world that's being invented around [TS]

  you you know he just keeps throwing in [TS]

  the explanation you almost the time you [TS]

  need it for commits that kind of it's [TS]

  kind of like a literary equivalent of [TS]

  like an Escher painting right that's [TS]

  where you're like you're staring at it [TS]

  and it looks like one thing and then as [TS]

  your brain sort of adapt to the strange [TS]

  geometry that's going on there [TS]

  it looks like it starts to look like [TS]

  something else you start to get an idea [TS]

  like oh this isn't all that's going on [TS]

  here okay yeah that staircase connects [TS]

  there but it also is like upstairs and [TS]

  downstairs of all time when i read it a [TS]

  second time the thing was funny as I [TS]

  thought okay well the second time this [TS]

  is like whenever you read a murder [TS]

  mystery ok I know who did it so I know [TS]

  that conceit here I'll read it a second [TS]

  time and it will snap into a clear [TS]

  relief and it did not it is still in [TS]

  fact it's even worse because I could see [TS]

  all the stuff that he hid that you only [TS]

  can pick up on subsequent readings was [TS]

  even more traces of ambiguity it's like [TS]

  Oh My heavens it's so unlike NM which [TS]

  sets you down in a world that is clearly [TS]

  not our own and with a lot of terms that [TS]

  you have to learn with the city in the [TS]

  city it's plausibly our world it's a [TS]

  country you don't really recognize in [TS]

  Eastern Europe and you know you don't [TS]

  really know but then he starts dropping [TS]

  the verbs on you that people are [TS]

  unseeing things and you're like what is [TS]

  that mean and his login tactical yes [TS]

  catching alter all these things yeah [TS]

  cross topically yeah yeah and so and so [TS]

  you end up trying to decrypt all of this [TS]

  and unpacking you're right it is like [TS]

  the [TS]

  I think any any good novel it's like the [TS]

  novelist is trying to hack into your [TS]

  brain and novel is a machine that is [TS]

  designed to work on your brain and work [TS]

  on how your brain processes the [TS]

  information that's given and this does [TS]

  that in a really interesting way and [TS]

  when you get to the point awful where [TS]

  you get introduced to the concept of the [TS]

  breach and what the breaches which is [TS]

  essentially the police who are making [TS]

  sure that you don't violate this [TS]

  consensual hallucination about the two [TS]

  cities being separate when they're not [TS]

  for me that was when the thing really [TS]

  started to ramp up is that the throwing [TS]

  in that third actor which is the [TS]

  patroller of the of the borders and for [TS]

  me that's the central question with the [TS]

  city and the city about if it's science [TS]

  fictional or not is what is the breach [TS]

  and on twitter we mentioned this and I [TS]

  had somebody say oh no its total breach [TS]

  is totally explainable as just the [TS]

  conjunction of the two cities and it's [TS]

  not science fiction at all and yet when [TS]

  you read the description and maybe Glenn [TS]

  since you reread it when you read the [TS]

  description of the breach and how great [TS]

  the breach appears and what they do and [TS]

  how they seem to know what's going on [TS]

  your led to believe that it's this disc [TS]

  almost supernatural kind of force and [TS]

  that's great up to the point where he's [TS]

  led into the offices of the bringing [TS]

  your like drab not interesting in any [TS]

  sort of way [TS]

  bureaucratic offices they're not magical [TS]

  at all the kind of clunky and write like [TS]

  that famous arthur c clarke you know any [TS]

  sufficiently advanced technology is [TS]

  indistinguishable from magic [TS]

  they seem magical i think from the [TS]

  perspective of the people in the city [TS]

  and the other city because they have [TS]

  these powers or these technology that is [TS]

  so far advanced that it's not really [TS]

  understood but I think that you could I [TS]

  mean that's how I felt about anyways I [TS]

  really felt like these are guys who are [TS]

  not necessarily magical but at the same [TS]

  time they are in possession of some sort [TS]

  of technology that lends them a magical [TS]

  or a supernatural air [TS]

  yeah there's a bit of this kind of you [TS]

  know its reference another Stephenson [TS]

  book of snow crash one could argue that [TS]

  it's better on the border of being a [TS]

  neurological or neural programmers that [TS]

  the breach operates because the people [TS]

  who act as the breach are able to [TS]

  manipulate or understand how everyone [TS]

  else has partition their minds and that [TS]

  they can walk back and forth between [TS]

  these two cities by change [TS]

  changing their own perception this whole [TS]

  there's all this subtle stuff in the [TS]

  book about the way someone walks the [TS]

  collars the the smells [TS]

  there's this hilarious but in which two [TS]

  are the police officer and his sergeants [TS]

  been assigned to him he takes her to a [TS]

  forgot the name of the other city it's [TS]

  some is al coma a yo-yo ma yeah he'll [TS]

  come he goes the in so he goes to little [TS]

  ill coma in his own City which is like a [TS]

  immigrant district from the other city [TS]

  and his sergeant gets freaked out for a [TS]

  second because she thinks she's not [TS]

  supposed to see it but there are tells [TS]

  in this immigrant area where the colors [TS]

  aren't quite the same smells maybe the [TS]

  same and you're thinking you know and as [TS]

  I'm going through the same confusion [TS]

  reading the book about wait a minute [TS]

  this violates every rule that he told me [TS]

  about but all know here's the exception [TS]

  or when they go through a little bit [TS]

  when you transition just when he's [TS]

  gotten you comfortable with the first [TS]

  city he takes you through to the second [TS]

  one that you're that you're suddenly [TS]

  going through this transition the [TS]

  officer has to go and meet with a [TS]

  counterpart in the other city and [TS]

  suddenly he has to have to go through [TS]

  classes to learn to unsee and see the [TS]

  right things and then goes through this [TS]

  transition space that's the same on both [TS]

  sides and suddenly he's emerges in his [TS]

  own city in the other city you basically [TS]

  go into this building that's the [TS]

  agreed-upon border point and then you [TS]

  emerge on the other side of the building [TS]

  but you're still in the same city of it [TS]

  yeah it's the which is my think that's [TS]

  really i agree with you guys that were [TS]

  you like your mind really starts racing [TS]

  to catch up right like oh my god what is [TS]

  going on how does he [TS]

  how do you go from seeing you know [TS]

  seeing a nun seeing these things that [TS]

  you have been trained to for all these [TS]

  years to totally inverting that and I [TS]

  think you know he does a great job of [TS]

  putting us in the shoes then of the [TS]

  person who feels like sort of as out of [TS]

  place as we felt coming into the book [TS]

  what's your verdict is there anything [TS]

  that we would call sort of traditional [TS]

  science fictional here or is there is [TS]

  the kind of magic of the city in the [TS]

  city just the concept is is such a [TS]

  mind-blower but it's not requiring [TS]

  anything that we don't have in our [TS]

  regular lives today I think it's [TS]

  fascinating lee in this hazy border i [TS]

  think he does everything in his power it [TS]

  without working hard is the most amazing [TS]

  thing I have to say is that the book is [TS]

  really a joy to read you know [TS]

  and in some ways like it's difficult or [TS]

  stressful to read but it's more like he [TS]

  presents this great story and he just [TS]

  keeps picking up the edge of the way in [TS]

  which you think about science fiction or [TS]

  fantasy and he's written previous things [TS]

  like pretty toes street station is a [TS]

  fascinating grimy book i felt like i had [TS]

  a shower 50 times were in that book [TS]

  everything is decaying and grimy but [TS]

  perdido Street Station clearly is it [TS]

  somewhere alien right yeah really it's [TS]

  science fiction fantasy that the science [TS]

  picture that the technology has become [TS]

  so advanced it's magic or there is magic [TS]

  or whatever there's clearly something [TS]

  else going on [TS]

  this stops you know many many degrees [TS]

  sort of that but I you know I couldn't [TS]

  tell you when I reread it someone on [TS]

  Twitter so to be like well it's clearly [TS]

  blah blah and I'm like okay you're an [TS]

  engineer first and second and another [TS]

  clear about it like you have to make a [TS]

  decision you can make a decision you [TS]

  start reading the book this is all in [TS]

  people's heads mrs. a political metaphor [TS]

  but there are points in the book we're [TS]

  like wait a minute [TS]

  the breach officer or breach whatever [TS]

  maybe not under officers the breach [TS]

  person has this device that doesn't make [TS]

  any sense but is it just a gun and it [TS]

  looks different or the breach can break [TS]

  into any web site anywhere in the world [TS]

  but are they just hackers or do they [TS]

  have super advanced magical sci-fi [TS]

  technology it's just you never cross the [TS]

  book barrier he doesn't give it away at [TS]

  the NSA all and by the way it's all [TS]

  sides yes they're aliens low or or hey [TS]

  was poorly welcome to the breach [TS]

  here's your magical laser that doesn't [TS]

  happen [TS]

  I like what I've read every several of [TS]

  his other books including prettiest each [TS]

  station and the to follow ons to that [TS]

  and I would just say from up from a [TS]

  qualitative standpoint I mean like Glenn [TS]

  says it's a very different type of book [TS]

  i would argue that is my favorite of all [TS]

  of his books that I think he does the [TS]

  most fully realized job of creating a [TS]

  setting which is fascinating because he [TS]

  spent so much time detailing is totally [TS]

  alien settings in pretty do Street [TS]

  Station and the other books in those [TS]

  worlds and yet somehow those never came [TS]

  to life to me is so much as the city in [TS]

  the city as as alien and strange as it [TS]

  is with these two cities overlying each [TS]

  other [TS]

  I thought it was fantastic and it really [TS]

  I I don't know that I would put a label [TS]

  on it by saying that it's science [TS]

  fiction if I mean if you know very [TS]

  broadly speaking you could say it's [TS]

  fantasy or something like that [TS]

  it's one of the best things i've read of [TS]

  any genre do you want to find out by jon [TS]

  renau not defined as one of the best [TS]

  things I've read in years i just i'm [TS]

  floored by and I can't wait to pick it [TS]

  up and read it again [TS]

  I liked it and I i might read it again [TS]

  although I have to say I actually voted [TS]

  at second of the six hugo award nominees [TS]

  it was a close one but I placed it [TS]

  second to the windup girl by paulo not [TS]

  another hard-to-pronounce name [TS]

  Paolo Bacigalupi i think his name is and [TS]

  have any of you read the windup girl I [TS]

  have red wine of course kotse first I [TS]

  was the idea haha oh but before before [TS]

  we talk about the windup girl i would [TS]

  like to read a one-star review on amazon [TS]

  for the city and the city i love this a [TS]

  dramatic reading couldnt well if you're [TS]

  feeling nostalgic for the good old days [TS]

  of those happy cold war years and long [TS]

  for a divided Berlin and you might take [TS]

  heart on this novel otherwise steer [TS]

  clear of this mess where the object is [TS]

  to beat around the bush plot-wise for as [TS]

  long as possible the cool kids might [TS]

  like this writer haha but that's only [TS]

  because they've been told he's cool to [TS]

  like that is from David Keith known as [TS]

  fur and tats are you mean I need I need [TS]

  a stamp that's called engineer and to [TS]

  stamp it on Twitter tweets and reviews [TS]

  and when he called you a cool kid what [TS]

  are you talking about i'm clearly if [TS]

  we're the cool kids is clearly the [TS]

  situation is totally out of whack you [TS]

  had something is very wrong here [TS]

  maybe he maybe he was writing for an [TS]

  alternate view of the novel i want to [TS]

  point out one other thing about the [TS]

  novel it synthesis at its china has a [TS]

  predilection for this so you know how [TS]

  George Lucas's naming our is horrible [TS]

  George Lucas's worst attribute is his [TS]

  ability to assign horrible horrible name [TS]

  you don't like Elyon sleazebag oh yes or [TS]

  media clear radians and well i'll post [TS]

  post like 1983 ourselves all right all [TS]

  right hand solo great name Luke [TS]

  Skywalker great everything else Wedge [TS]

  Antilles [TS]

  he's great now come on so that in mind [TS]

  here [TS]

  china has a media has a pitch perfect [TS]

  way of creating these names even the [TS]

  names that you read in the city in the [TS]

  city or perdidos each station is other [TS]

  books they make your brain slide around [TS]

  like I've studied German some Eastern [TS]

  European languages and he gets a name [TS]

  that you like that sort of familiar but [TS]

  not quite it's like dancing around my [TS]

  neurons and it's perfect without [TS]

  assigning a place or a thing to it [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  white girl by paolo bacigalupi i think [TS]

  scott this is a real kind of dystopian [TS]

  it's settin in thailand in the [TS]

  twenty-first late mid to late 21st [TS]

  century 22nd century and sort of oil all [TS]

  the oil is running out and thereby [TS]

  everybody is like using elephants or or [TS]

  like DNA reconstituted mammoths to drive [TS]

  big sort of like wheels to charge up [TS]

  springs to generate energy because [TS]

  there's no energy left in there like [TS]

  gene-altered people it's definitely a [TS]

  dark dark dark book as it is very dark [TS]

  there's there's a constant food shortage [TS]

  due to genetic runaway genetic a-league [TS]

  mutated viruses and plagues so they call [TS]

  there are American companies seemingly [TS]

  that stockpile genetically altered food [TS]

  stuffs that they send to other countries [TS]

  that cannot be grown so that people [TS]

  can't grow their own food so that they [TS]

  are dependent on these countries to [TS]

  supply food the calorie companies [TS]

  exactly in the calorie men from the [TS]

  calorie companies and apparently was it [TS]

  simply the netherlands was destroyed in [TS]

  a conflict over their seed bank ya roar [TS]

  Swift I think it's that I think that's [TS]

  actually a certain sweden and norway [TS]

  it's where there actually is a genetic [TS]

  seed bank and then they destroyed it in [TS]

  a war over the trying to get the seeds [TS]

  out there is apparently a seed bank and [TS]

  in Thailand that that the calorie man is [TS]

  trying to get these posing as a [TS]

  industrialist and there's Epsilon's and [TS]

  i have to say that should be a checklist [TS]

  for every sci-fi or fantasy novel is are [TS]

  there Zeppelin's in a city setting [TS]

  because right [TS]

  zeppelins check all right i mean i'm [TS]

  sold if there is Evelyn's and that's why [TS]

  you that that's why I got your vote [TS]

  right that's right what's the plan [TS]

  that's what pushed it over the edge for [TS]

  me is that there was your shit everytime [TS]

  air quieres ship plot points yes it's [TS]

  true and I was a really good book i also [TS]

  read he wrote a young adult book called [TS]

  shipbreakers set in the same universe [TS]

  which I actually thought was better [TS]

  haha but that's just because i have a [TS]

  low reading comprehension you're not one [TS]

  of the cool kids [TS]

  I'm not gonna cook it so I was like [TS]

  whatever windup girl is it is dark it is [TS]

  its political it's it's a it's an [TS]

  ecological political message about the [TS]

  you he was the logical logically what [TS]

  will happen if there is a global warming [TS]

  you know washes away I mean that the the [TS]

  city in in white girl is holding on by a [TS]

  thread because it's got bikes everywhere [TS]

  and when they give out it's going to [TS]

  flood and so there's that and there's [TS]

  this whole idea of genetically modified [TS]

  food and so there's all this all this [TS]

  kind of politics and extrapolation which [TS]

  I love in sci-fi and quite frankly i [TS]

  don't actually even care about the [TS]

  politics i love the fact that it's an [TS]

  extrapolation of like well if if we take [TS]

  this to be true what might that mean and [TS]

  that's what I got out of the lineup girl [TS]

  was this really interesting kind of [TS]

  mishmash of all these sort of trends [TS]

  that you could you can see today and [TS]

  where did they go [TS]

  and if they go to a really dark place in [TS]

  the in this case and it doesn't have to [TS]

  be that way but that's the direction he [TS]

  chose to go in and you know none of the [TS]

  characters you can really bank on 44 to [TS]

  survive the book which i think i like [TS]

  and in fact you think you've got kind of [TS]

  a rotation of viewpoint characters going [TS]

  in and all of a sudden I'm one of them [TS]

  isn't there anymore and there's a [TS]

  replacement viewpoint caring like else [TS]

  okay [TS]

  holy endeavor that's fascinating ever [TS]

  heard of that as a mechanism where like [TS]

  you have a new person that the new point [TS]

  of view [TS]

  yeah well give you so much without [TS]

  giving too much away I it's enjoyable [TS]

  that you've got one of these viewpoint [TS]

  characters who who like get pushed off a [TS]

  building and and his deputy is now the [TS]

  Cuban character because he's gone and [TS]

  although his ghost his ghost speaks to [TS]

  her whether she's real or imagined that [TS]

  we don't know it's a real ghost or not [TS]

  certain and as i was reading that seems [TS]

  like he's not gonna kill this character [TS]

  and he can possibly kill the sketch yeah [TS]

  i think this is a cyclic convention [TS]

  thing to talk about too is that there [TS]

  are novels know like a novel in which [TS]

  the character is an adolescent at the [TS]

  beginning and end is called juvenile [TS]

  right isn't that like any genre is not [TS]

  the case even if its adult novel to gym [TS]

  it's a juvenile right so there's there's [TS]

  this thing like this is all to all the [TS]

  characters are most of them died at the [TS]

  end of the novel or before the other [TS]

  novel then there's a real pre-election [TS]

  sci-fi to kill everybody i read a book [TS]

  the day was so depressing I can't [TS]

  remember the title i'll never read [TS]

  anything by that i mean by that author [TS]

  again because everybody dies like [TS]

  literally everybody dies at the end I'm [TS]

  like what in God's name is another it [TS]

  could have been the windup girl action [TS]

  you have been at all [TS]

  not everybody not everybody dies in the [TS]

  line of girls just you know we let me be [TS]

  doing that though is george RR martin [TS]

  because he's really quickly like still [TS]

  off viewpoint characters like he gets [TS]

  them into situations where it's like you [TS]

  know if you've read any sort of you you [TS]

  know familiar with any sort of drama [TS]

  like all it's the impossible situation [TS]

  how are they going to get out of this [TS]

  and then they don't they yeah and you're [TS]

  like oh haha [TS]

  and so I saw someone asked him about [TS]

  that one said I convention and he's like [TS]

  yeah i like to keep people on their toes [TS]

  yeah i just i just finished the third of [TS]

  those of those song of ice and fire [TS]

  books and in the middle of it to not [TS]

  even at the end in the middle of it one [TS]

  of these two of these characters that I [TS]

  that I expected would survive certainly [TS]

  one of them who had been a viewpoint [TS]

  characters since almost the very [TS]

  beginning and don't know they're both [TS]

  dead in about four pages homeland just [TS]

  dead and you like steak he likes to [TS]

  killed while that said that said nothing [TS]

  you know it's fantasy it's like you know [TS]

  fantasy and scifi and comic books right [TS]

  nothing's ever forever yes well I I [TS]

  don't last and then you get to the end [TS]

  of that book and you find that that's [TS]

  true but at the same time I think you [TS]

  know there is something to be said for [TS]

  that you know reality aspect of getting [TS]

  characters into situations where it's [TS]

  not like a ridiculous escapade where [TS]

  they escaped but in fact you know there [TS]

  are casualties right i mean i guess [TS]

  that's a certain type of writing and [TS]

  you've got to be sort of sign up for [TS]

  that when you go into it but I mean I [TS]

  think it's a I sort of relish that not [TS]

  because i like the killing characters [TS]

  off but like because it gives you real [TS]

  fear right for all the rest of the [TS]

  characters you know [TS]

  the characters you really come to care [TS]

  about because you're like oh my god you [TS]

  know they could conceivably die [TS]

  you know it makes you very invested in [TS]

  in the whole storyline is going on there [TS]

  and i think that there's something to be [TS]

  said for that [TS]

  Glenn one another another novel that you [TS]

  mentioned that you read recently and [TS]

  we're raving about is for the win by [TS]

  cory doctorow yeah and I i would I was [TS]

  interested in hearing what you thought [TS]

  about that i read little brother and [TS]

  while I admired the sort of technique [TS]

  that he used and some of the plot points [TS]

  i actually despise the book because I [TS]

  thought it was such a just ridiculous [TS]

  lecture that it was like a download of a [TS]

  manifesto in novel form in it really got [TS]

  on my bad side so it's for the win gonna [TS]

  make me hate cory doctorow more or less [TS]

  well I didn't read little brother [TS]

  because i have a feeling it was a plum [TS]

  akin novel form ya young adult novel [TS]

  perform so that so that teenagers will [TS]

  find out why how important it is to [TS]

  compile your own I was entirely agree [TS]

  with Jason but I mean that said hi [TS]

  I mean I liked the book III mean it is [TS]

  advantageous agreement of fun [TS]

  yeah i mean i-i know you know that stuff [TS]

  right because you know Corey's politics [TS]

  going into it and he's not one to ever [TS]

  hold back from that kind of thing I read [TS]

  a hard a hard SF story he had to hugo [TS]

  nominees last year one was a little [TS]

  brother and was this hard SF story that [TS]

  he wrote that was great it was so great [TS]

  and I think in the end I realized it was [TS]

  because if it was political it wasn't [TS]

  political in that sort of polemic you [TS]

  know lecturing kind of feeling that I [TS]

  got from what if you ever go read down [TS]

  and out in the magic kingdom yes also a [TS]

  right which is also very good and is [TS]

  also shied away from that his sort of [TS]

  political leanings but I mean I think [TS]

  he's a talented writer and he's a is [TS]

  mark I and you know I i know that [TS]

  there's a lot of you know his work is [TS]

  also very very divisive in that regard [TS]

  because of the politics i think i think [TS]

  he's an extremist and I generally yes i [TS]

  agree with sort of what he's about [TS]

  but not to the extreme that he takes it [TS]

  right I don't mind having political [TS]

  statement obviously the windup girl is a [TS]

  deeply political book as a sci-fi novel [TS]

  it's incredibly political but I didn't [TS]

  mind it because it was about it was all [TS]

  kind of infused in a setting where as a [TS]

  little brother was just their whole [TS]

  chapters that were like he well he took [TS]

  his xbox and he used the open-source [TS]

  colonel too [TS]

  create the encrypted network so that and [TS]

  she's like oh my god it's it's not [TS]

  theirs [TS]

  it's just all artifice the final are [TS]

  there at all sounds like Atlas Shrugged [TS]

  only completely different with Atlas [TS]

  coated annapolis web [TS]

  well I you know having that little [TS]

  brother I can address that although you [TS]

  know core is an extremist and he's and [TS]

  he's unapologetically you know in favor [TS]

  of certain things regardless of the [TS]

  consequences but I i think for the way I [TS]

  say for the win for the win because it [TS]

  is much more like down out the magic [TS]

  kingdom and it's got it you know first [TS]

  off its a rollicking good story like [TS]

  it's it's a story that spools itself out [TS]

  in a really interesting way taking place [TS]

  across I don't know four continents all [TS]

  the protagonist just about our teenagers [TS]

  are a few adults involved and it is an [TS]

  insight into a world that Corey [TS]

  understands quite well and he clearly [TS]

  saw expert help to tell the story [TS]

  correctly in places he didn't know so [TS]

  there's a lot of stuff about multiplayer [TS]

  worldwide multiplayer games games that [TS]

  he's invented for the book but that have [TS]

  a close resemblance to games out there [TS]

  so it's set within and without [TS]

  is it said sort of in a game world and [TS]

  in the real world or is it both or one [TS]

  or the other it's more like the [TS]

  description of a about well you know [TS]

  action is based on a story he wrote i'm [TS]

  blanking on the name of a little Anya or [TS]

  something it's a short story where he's [TS]

  changed he's kept some of the things the [TS]

  same it's it's mostly outside the game [TS]

  world there's not much of a sense of [TS]

  being in the game world all the time the [TS]

  game world is used for political [TS]

  organizing and you know that sounds very [TS]

  polemical no but I know this is what's [TS]

  funny is i mean the book and the book [TS]

  starts with like these great narrative [TS]

  elements he's i interviewed Corey a few [TS]

  weeks ago for an article I'm writing [TS]

  about crowdfunding I said Korea just [TS]

  read for the win and I'm unclear when [TS]

  you actually transform yourself into a [TS]

  70 year old indian girl at what point in [TS]

  your life did that occur because he [TS]

  writes from the perspective of chinese [TS]

  american indian and even like other [TS]

  cultural you any rights in a way that [TS]

  feels like it has a great degree of [TS]

  verisimilitude it's not like what people [TS]

  think their lives are like it's much [TS]

  more what from my reading at least their [TS]

  lives are actually like he doesn't hide [TS]

  the grid the danger the TDM and all that [TS]

  but it's still a very good strong story [TS]

  now in [TS]

  this is gonna sound ridiculous in the [TS]

  middle of this he explains how things [TS]

  like credit default swaps work and I i [TS]

  know that sounds pretty boring and [TS]

  political and it is not it's very [TS]

  entertaining because he's weaving this [TS]

  story about this sort of rise of a new [TS]

  working class and that suppressed and [TS]

  he's telling it to the voices of all [TS]

  these very very interesting people and [TS]

  events that were familiar with you know [TS]

  uprisings put down in china and the [TS]

  shifting of labor and gold farming you [TS]

  know if you know if you follow this at [TS]

  all there are thousands tens of [TS]

  thousands millions of people worldwide [TS]

  whose entire occupation in very poor [TS]

  conditions is to go into these massive [TS]

  multiplayer online games and too tedious [TS]

  tasks to make gold that is sold in game [TS]

  the players for real money through [TS]

  various means and some games tolerated [TS]

  some do not [TS]

  but there are ways around it and I think [TS]

  that's the core is this like real world [TS]

  situation that sounds ridiculous but [TS]

  there are millions and millions of [TS]

  people but i believe think this is [TS]

  documented now engaged in this [TS]

  profession you know they're working in [TS]

  sweatshops 12 hours a day or whatever to [TS]

  farming game and so it would be science [TS]

  fiction it were actually real [TS]

  yeah I i mean is that sounds like the [TS]

  science fictional premise and yet it's [TS]

  it's true there it's the arbitrage of [TS]

  the developed world versus developing [TS]

  world is that there's and the internet [TS]

  leverages the ability for the developing [TS]

  world to use it's incredibly cheap labor [TS]

  to produce the results that would be [TS]

  unbelievably marginal in the developed [TS]

  world like I'm not going to put 12 hours [TS]

  in for the equivalent of one dollar and [TS]

  to make you know to be paid that and to [TS]

  make ten dollars for my employers and [TS]

  that's possible in china and india and [TS]

  some other places so you know I think [TS]

  the story is very enjoyable that you [TS]

  know i'll tell you the brief narrative [TS]

  without giving anything away is that [TS]

  it's basically gamers all over the world [TS]

  some of them gold farmers some of them [TS]

  more interested in the gameplay wind up [TS]

  feeling like compressed and betrayed and [TS]

  as if they could have a voice and don't [TS]

  and they develop essentially a worldwide [TS]

  workers network that allows them to try [TS]

  to push for like unionization and other [TS]

  things again the sound stuff polemical [TS]

  but it's a really fun story it doesn't [TS]

  get overwrought any mixes in economic [TS]

  education in a way that is totally [TS]

  natural because he's trying to explain [TS]

  to both me as someone who's a very [TS]

  technical person but not a gamer and two [TS]

  other people who are not involved in the [TS]

  world always try to explain how the game [TS]

  economy works in terms of the real [TS]

  autonomy as opposed to the real economy [TS]

  in terms of game economies [TS]

  wow you did Glenn you're going to make [TS]

  me read more current cory doctorow I'm [TS]

  gonna curse you for that it's very fun i [TS]

  got through the book I was reading it [TS]

  like it was on fire because it's just it [TS]

  is a rollicking good read and you'd [TS]

  understand credit default swaps [TS]

  afterward with is reading like it's on [TS]

  fire the opposite of what I couldn't put [TS]

  it down because it's like it that's [TS]

  where the same thing you'd be an audio [TS]

  making up the road across or down that [TS]

  is i just got a really fast i think this [TS]

  way as if the pages were burning away as [TS]

  i read them i was reading so fast there [TS]

  is a market that Corey would probably [TS]

  oppose books that incinerator [TS]

  well he'd argue that any book with DRM [TS]

  is essentially a Burn After Reading well [TS]

  don't share the dvds that [TS]

  self-destructed [TS]

  yes that old dude is the old yeah yeah [TS]

  consumers really wanted to kiss i love [TS]

  that Corey talks the talk but he also [TS]

  walks the walk down the magic kingdom i [TS]

  actually had sitting on my kindle for a [TS]

  while now because he just makes that [TS]

  available as a free download in its it [TS]

  because it's a very good book i mean i [TS]

  read a paper copy of it so I didn't you [TS]

  know paper and flames as i as i read it [TS]

  but it's got some really interesting [TS]

  ideas in it and uh it's just it's set in [TS]

  disney world and it's just it's kind of [TS]

  crazy and and fun and I i think that so [TS]

  far as the favorite my favorite of the [TS]

  things that he's written not little [TS]

  brother little brother I like little [TS]

  brother but I mean I you know at the [TS]

  same time you know what I'm saying about [TS]

  them appreciate it is though [TS]

  no I I totally get that I mean like I [TS]

  don't I don't that's not necessarily [TS]

  something that I'm cognizant of because [TS]

  you know I knew going like I said I knew [TS]

  going in this is corey you know I'm [TS]

  gonna take it with a grain of salt [TS]

  you know for his political stuff but you [TS]

  know I still think the story is [TS]

  interesting and I think the characters [TS]

  are cool and you know there is a kind of [TS]

  you know it is kind of your typical like [TS]

  I what I like about it is that it's one [TS]

  it's like your typical movie where it's [TS]

  on the run from you know the man and [TS]

  only it's you know it's like a teenager [TS]

  you know instead of you know it like [TS]

  Sheila before whatever [TS]

  in addition to what will assign some [TS]

  reading but we'll do that offline that i [TS]

  love it if we could like all agree at [TS]

  some point to read something soon and I [TS]

  and discuss it that kinect kinect [TS]

  guessing since we're still like [TS]

  establishing a format sure there is no [TS]

  format is that we have also what [TS]

  discovered already [TS]

  I was gonna say yes and I know Glenn [TS]

  already brought up for the wind but like [TS]

  perhaps you know the rest of us on here [TS]

  might suggest a book that's a good idea [TS]

  I was going to start with what are you [TS]

  reading and then perhaps we can suggest [TS]

  a book after that absolutely you're [TS]

  you're in charge [TS]

  you're the boss so now i'm really not [TS]

  i'm really really are my behind me and [TS]

  I'm the agitator in on this podcast I'm [TS]

  not the boss now do what I say and tell [TS]

  me what are you what are you reading [TS]

  Glen are you reading something right now [TS]

  I well I just finished recently a book [TS]

  recommended for Cory but it down you [TS]

  supposed to be on a podcast why are you [TS]

  reading random violence offenses book is [TS]

  burning he has to reduce supporters and [TS]

  don't burn themselves glad the is a book [TS]

  suggested by cory doctorow on the [TS]

  bling-bling blog and i immediately got a [TS]

  library surprisingly and bitter seeds [TS]

  and the the synopsis i just read it I [TS]

  think officially a couple weeks ago and [TS]

  it's not see Superman who are really [TS]

  Superman and super powerful beings that [TS]

  are evil that are sort of helping us [TS]

  during World War two [TS]

  so it's it's entertaining but a little [TS]

  crazy and it gets crazier as a novel [TS]

  goes on [TS]

  I'd say ultimately disappointing but [TS]

  very interesting and well-written [TS]

  fascinating and sort of becomes more [TS]

  comic booky as the book goes on [TS]

  wow I haven't even heard of that who's [TS]

  the author its role model fumble it is i [TS]

  have read something by on his sucks he's [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  let me consult the entire really from [TS]

  its he's into the city in the city i [TS]

  think it's written by google still [TS]

  loading in tribulus is his name [TS]

  alright who i believe is written a [TS]

  previous books i think this has gotten [TS]

  more play in some of his earlier novels [TS]

  everyone wants to believe that the Nazis [TS]

  had actual Superman not just big brawny [TS]

  blonde people so I want to believe that [TS]

  yes we all we all want not Superman but [TS]

  he's actually done something about it [TS]

  but what if there were with Dan what are [TS]

  you reading [TS]

  I'm currently reading I set aside i was [TS]

  a part of the way through a nonfiction [TS]

  book Michael Lewis is the big short [TS]

  which is very good outside the realm of [TS]

  this project [TS]

  yes and I said it aside to read uh [TS]

  because I got out the library so i only [TS]

  have a week to read it which is likely [TS]

  to the library that's like drm [TS]

  and live like it's like it's like it's [TS]

  on fire Shane library man called tongues [TS]

  of serpents which is the sixth book in a [TS]

  series by a woman named Naomi Novik [TS]

  which basically is predicated on this [TS]

  premise of its the Napoleonic Wars and [TS]

  ships are fighting oh there's these huge [TS]

  naval battles but they're also dragons [TS]

  I've been addicted to this series to i [TS]

  picked up the first 1i think it was free [TS]

  as a kindle book from amazon right that [TS]

  understands what they do is the first [TS]

  first book is free and you're all [TS]

  publishers have realized that if I can [TS]

  get you hooked on a free book 1 then the [TS]

  rest of them you will follow [TS]

  I really wanted first posterous to me [TS]

  and I read it and I'm like this is darn [TS]

  good that makes me actually over there [TS]

  could be dragons turn the polyamine [TS]

  because basically the way that they [TS]

  organize it is it the dragons are [TS]

  basically they've always been dragons [TS]

  dragons are basically used as like the [TS]

  aerial core like the like it's like [TS]

  world war one dog fights except they're [TS]

  on dragons instead of in planes but the [TS]

  sector employees or so if you want like [TS]

  the high-concept log mine [TS]

  it's like Dragon dogfight it's like it's [TS]

  like Horatio Hornblower streets and [TS]

  McCaffrey wow oh my god that is Ananda [TS]

  poliana quartz which means Scoville like [TS]

  it because its historical exactly i [TS]

  actually I well i bought the first three [TS]

  of those in paperback and I haven't read [TS]

  that yeah well she came out this was [TS]

  kind of weird because the first we were [TS]

  released as tree as mass-market [TS]

  paperbacks all the same time because I [TS]

  guess she told she had written the three [TS]

  of them like a whore and she's now up to [TS]

  the sixth one I I have to say I think [TS]

  she gets interesting threads as the [TS]

  series goes on because i think that the [TS]

  dragons in this world are all like not [TS]

  just you know ascension but like pretty [TS]

  Darren intelligent like they can all [TS]

  they're all got like facilities for [TS]

  languages and and stuff like that so [TS]

  that their becomes a very interesting [TS]

  issue of do they have rights you know [TS]

  what is the sort of you know how should [TS]

  they be treated to be treated like [TS]

  animals should be treated like people [TS]

  and it does it was kind of cool schools [TS]

  that she totally spans the globe with [TS]

  the adventures that they start you know [TS]

  in sort of England napoleonic wars and [TS]

  then they span out to Africa and China [TS]

  and in this most current volume [TS]

  australia and she's got a great year for [TS]

  the dialogue and settings are fantastic [TS]

  i do think that her plots have started [TS]

  to lose a little bit of thread and I [TS]

  think she said there's a she has ideas [TS]

  for a couple more books but I hoping [TS]

  that you sort of wrap this up and moves [TS]

  on to something else because I think [TS]

  she's been immersed herself in [TS]

  Napoleonic Wars for long enough haven't [TS]

  we all [TS]

  and Scott got whatever what are you [TS]

  reading [TS]

  I will speak i'm not reading this [TS]

  currently but it involves dragon so i [TS]

  will mention it very briefly I guess [TS]

  magazine the the adamantine palace was a [TS]

  really good book about a it's a fantasy [TS]

  book and it's basically these people [TS]

  kind of enslaved the dragons and drug [TS]

  them up so that they are docile and no [TS]

  longer control themselves and can be [TS]

  written and it follows the path of one [TS]

  dragon who kind of gets free of this and [TS]

  regains its intelligence so check that [TS]

  out but I'm reading right now a book [TS]

  called Jason you like this [TS]

  the dream of perpetual motion and is the [TS]

  narrator is imprisoned in a Zeppelin [TS]

  hovering above the city sorry react so [TS]

  you're just making this up right now [TS]

  aren't you [TS]

  I have not and the the Zeppelin is [TS]

  powered by a perpetual motion machine [TS]

  that may or may not be failing [TS]

  I and he describes that's how it starts [TS]

  and then he describes how he got to [TS]

  where he is and it's very interested [TS]

  steampunky if anyone likes steampunk ah [TS]

  yes and we should talk to me on perhaps [TS]

  in another installment about a [TS]

  Boneshaker which I know Scott you and I [TS]

  have read that is steampunky as well [TS]

  that has plus zombie I was gonna say [TS]

  plus so I sep ones [TS]

  yes zombie + Zeppelin equals yeah for [TS]

  somebody to do a steampunky Brewster and [TS]

  really once that starts in punky [TS]

  Brewster's Millions actually that best [TS]

  crossover ever if I i'm sort of this [TS]

  genre thing is certain you know this is [TS]

  I had a interregnum I think I didn't [TS]

  read sci-fi much for years re relatives [TS]

  some classics in the last several years [TS]

  I've started quite a bit of it again and [TS]

  it is like all these new genres like [TS]

  steampunk was and they're sort of you [TS]

  know sort of cyberpunk and there was [TS]

  Bruce Sterling was running steampunk in [TS]

  like nineteen ninety-five right [TS]

  in but like that the difference engine [TS]

  but like steampunk is like you know [TS]

  totally ochre all and then there's the [TS]

  new weird which meal falls into but [TS]

  there's a ton of other authors writing [TS]

  that then there's like the sort of [TS]

  revenge of the Golden Age kinds of [TS]

  things that are like super hard science [TS]

  or super non hard science so it seems [TS]

  like there's a like this flux must be [TS]

  more readers demanding more different [TS]

  kinds of things for these explosion of [TS]

  new genres but you know we'll always [TS]

  have Zeppelin's and revisionist world [TS]

  war two Nazi fantasy so what will always [TS]

  have Zeppelin's is definitely the name [TS]

  of this episode was a Jason Jason let me [TS]

  turn it back to you what are you reading [TS]

  oh yes so i just finished that third [TS]

  book in the george RR martin sequence so [TS]

  i have a feast for crows next but you [TS]

  know how / in ratchet resent that ladies [TS]

  it [TS]

  given how slow he isn't writing those [TS]

  and then it'll probably be another year [TS]

  before the next one is out i'm just [TS]

  looking to let it sit there until I can [TS]

  handle it but we need a podcast about [TS]

  how fantasy writers take forever between [TS]

  actually speaking of dragons i'm reading [TS]

  at long last after putting it off for [TS]

  like a year i'm finally reading the girl [TS]

  with the dragon tattoo by stieg larsson [TS]

  which is not a genre black just read [TS]

  that not long i just i just read it as [TS]

  well maybe we should talk to maybe we'll [TS]

  talk about in our international I guess [TS]

  the key mystery podcast that's real [TS]

  mystery and and it's got some finance in [TS]

  their writing some journalism in there [TS]

  and all anyway I'm finally going to read [TS]

  that I just started reading that and i'm [TS]

  also in the middle of science book from [TS]

  eternity to here by sean carroll which [TS]

  is about time and how we define time and [TS]

  and trying to figure out why the arrow [TS]

  of time points forward why did things [TS]

  happen in one direction and not the [TS]

  other [TS]

  I hear it's the fire in which we burn [TS]

  yes yes I was gonna say ty it's also an [TS]

  episode time's arrow also an episode of [TS]

  Star Trek The Next Generation we did it [TS]

  is Morris Wayne buried in san francisco [TS]

  where I'm speaking to you data's head is [TS]

  here with me now [TS]

  what is it reading right now poor brent [TS]

  Spiner will always has a plan so that's [TS]

  what i'm reading so what should we read [TS]

  next I actually think that dead Glennon [TS]

  and dan you re Boneshaker yeah I think [TS]

  that's right shows the Sun and it's got [TS]

  someone's it [TS]

  I like a zombies zombies it's set in the [TS]

  Pacific Northwest it's set in seattle [TS]

  told it was an altar but it's an [TS]

  alternate history LKC ok let's check the [TS]

  box its tendency I don't need weed on [TS]

  the website that lists yeah alternate [TS]

  history civil war-era alternate history [TS]

  with historical but it's all historical [TS]

  and they think they may mention New York [TS]

  so it's okay for me that reminds me I [TS]

  mean yeah at some point in the future [TS]

  episode i would love if anybody else has [TS]

  read Michael ship on the Yiddish police [TS]

  oh yeah that's another great but that we [TS]

  are really interesting that we seem [TS]

  worth talking about a we're going to put [TS]

  another list that everything is my it's [TS]

  science fiction inside ristic science [TS]

  fiction subcategory it's all history so [TS]

  it has to be it is all tests yes that's [TS]

  a fascinating fascinating book [TS]

  don't throw that up it really isn't and [TS]

  Scott you read that too i have read that [TS]

  alright so weak that one is like being [TS]

  that we should have done that today [TS]

  because we have a moment we've all had [TS]

  that one [TS]

  let's go back and our little yeah we [TS]

  just record another day i'm hoping that [TS]

  this podcast will have more episodes and [TS]

  we'll be able once a month or so to talk [TS]

  about about books so what should we read [TS]

  next other than boneshakers anything you [TS]

  guys want to throw out there that we are [TS]

  ordered or the listener should should [TS]

  handle i will throw out my go-to [TS]

  recommendation which i've been [TS]

  recommending to a lot of people in the [TS]

  world by the car away [TS]

  indeed record dateline what no what no [TS]

  we're now it's a book called the gone [TS]

  away world by Nick harkway who's a [TS]

  british writer who I actually had a [TS]

  couple exchanged with on Twitter he's a [TS]

  very nice guy he's also the son of john [TS]

  the car a so if you like your new [TS]

  thrillers he's he's got a little bit of [TS]

  that going to but it's a [TS]

  post-apocalyptic novel that's very I [TS]

  don't know how to describe it other than [TS]

  to say that it's unique I mean what [TS]

  other book the heavy run into that has [TS]

  like ninjas and mimes and it's a [TS]

  post-apocalyptic world it'sit's kind of [TS]

  comedic at times zeppelins there's a [TS]

  there's a massive sort of driving [TS]

  monstrosity machine but i don't think [TS]

  there's necessarily exist because a ways [TS]

  x it's not [TS]

  anyways arm it's it's one of those books [TS]

  that is it is is hard to put down once [TS]

  you sort of start to get into it and it [TS]

  really it's just it's unlike so much [TS]

  other stuff that i have that i have read [TS]

  and it was I think I read it last year [TS]

  and it was one of my favorite books of [TS]

  last year and I think it's how comes [TS]

  highly recommended i don't think i think [TS]

  it's it's flown on under a lot of radars [TS]

  but i would i would definitely recommend [TS]

  I'm not slide is your grade are at my [TS]

  library will have a copy for me waiting [TS]

  for a World so what should we read next [TS]

  got RR is everyone here fans of jasper [TS]

  fforde yes I don't know who that is [TS]

  oh well what this podcast is over yeah [TS]

  i'm out of not just for Ford row in that [TS]

  case yes oh just performed here she is [TS]

  great for yet for that my rights for [TS]

  that author it is a non character who [TS]

  was a man he he's probably most famous [TS]

  for his Thursday Next books in which the [TS]

  main character thursday next is a [TS]

  detective that has to maintain the [TS]

  plotlines of books so they jump into [TS]

  books and make sure everything's alright [TS]

  as a literary did a literary detectors [TS]

  f1's there are well the book i am [TS]

  recommending is his latest shades of [TS]

  grey which includes no Zeppelin sadly [TS]

  but on it is a good book and it but the [TS]

  only downside is it is the first book in [TS]

  the trilogy which I did not realize [TS]

  until I finished it so i wasn't quite as [TS]

  you turned out he not so finished [TS]

  yeah likes like Scott I read it and it [TS]

  ends on a bit of a cliffhanger but it [TS]

  was good [TS]

  alright is good that's good I i have [TS]

  never heard of of that person and i will [TS]

  look that up that's great so it's set in [TS]

  the world that is kinda for devoid of [TS]

  color and people are ranked by what [TS]

  colors they can perceive and there's a [TS]

  company that supplies artificial color [TS]

  so check that wow when what what should [TS]

  we read next [TS]

  this is gets little off track but I've [TS]

  been reading fables comic book series [TS]

  but its Kiki and sort of science fiction [TS]

  and fantasy I guess we may have to [TS]

  invite you into the comic book club [TS]

  segment of this popular which which we [TS]

  also are doing [TS]

  I can't tell whether like variables or [TS]

  its stupid it there but there are [TS]

  moments of real brilliance and sort of [TS]

  unique thing [TS]

  this in some marvelous art it but the [TS]

  storyline is you know you watched like [TS]

  ugh like the Simpsons at one point was [TS]

  fantastic and they could have an ABC and [TS]

  D stories going on at the same time [TS]

  without losing track of them and fables [TS]

  kind of all a story and sometimes the a [TS]

  story is sort of boring [TS]

  alright and that's what we should read [TS]

  next you're not really text did that [TS]

  ringing endorsement [TS]

  here's the thing is like you want to [TS]

  punish us that it's three the superhero [TS]

  what we do to you go Angie this and [TS]

  decide yourself it's been collected into [TS]

  giant volumes like all graphic novel [TS]

  comic books are these days so I actually [TS]

  want to breeding most of it i've read [TS]

  some current issues but I've read most [TS]

  of it through giant library issued [TS]

  library balance back copies and sort of [TS]

  fascinating it's an inch it's [TS]

  interesting idea that what if all the [TS]

  tables have been told are actually real [TS]

  places in an alternate universe there [TS]

  are don't recall Zeppelin's but there [TS]

  are dragon there's no Zeppelin's but [TS]

  dragons that's good that's all that's [TS]

  like nature's trick nature Zeppelin [TS]

  because I dragon it's got the hot air [TS]

  and fly nature's nature's nature's i'm [TS]

  going to say if you haven't read this [TS]

  yet it's been out for a few years now [TS]

  the sequel actually just came out [TS]

  oryx and crake by margaret atwood 0 [TS]

  which is a post-apocalyptic Margaret [TS]

  Atwood who is who [TS]

  it's actually a part of it is kind of [TS]

  during apocalyptic pre and-and-and [TS]

  during apocalypse [TS]

  it's actually two parallel stories with [TS]

  one character in common and it's one of [TS]

  them is post-apocalypse and one is the [TS]

  events that lead up to the apocalypse [TS]

  and the last chapters are take place in [TS]

  the same location at the moment where [TS]

  the apocalypse is happening and at the [TS]

  kind of climax of the book after the [TS]

  apocalypse is is over and done with [TS]

  which is it's really well done kind of a [TS]

  and B story where you're flashing [TS]

  backward and forward with this one [TS]

  character really imaginative and the [TS]

  world that sort of comes out of the [TS]

  apocalypse is is well created as well [TS]

  and now there's a sequel to it or let me [TS]

  ask is the is the apocalypse caused by [TS]

  Zeppelin's there are sadly no Zeppelin's [TS]

  either before or after the apocalypse [TS]

  although i think after they love the [TS]

  Zeppelin that 1x no Zeppelin's operates [TS]

  out that I didn't know it was what [TS]

  should we read next with the Zeppelin's [TS]

  I could have come up with something [TS]

  boneshaker Boneshaker back to Boneshaker [TS]

  again there are Zeppelin's in there and [TS]

  all history and I think that's gonna [TS]

  have to be one of the things on your [TS]

  reading list comes true could hold [TS]

  seattle's zombie Zeppelin it's a quick [TS]

  read to its not it is not heavy stuff [TS]

  it's not happening at my library [TS]

  requested it shoots through the progress [TS]

  bar on your ebook reader it's true king [TS]

  it's gone it's only like now 200 [TS]

  kilobytes [TS]

  depressing than downloading a book [TS]

  especially if you've written a novel as [TS]

  some of us have to to download it and [TS]

  see how quickly download because there's [TS]

  nothing to this text files just like zip [TS]

  and it's there that it's great if you're [TS]

  a reader it's like overlook the books [TS]

  already downloaded if you're right it's [TS]

  like really all that work I put into it [TS]

  and it takes two seconds to download it [TS]

  so sometimes i buy them and just delete [TS]

  them because it takes so little time you [TS]

  that just it pains me right in my right [TS]

  my chest I print them out and then some [TS]

  of them taken from different from atop [TS]

  my housing causing the apart from atop [TS]

  my Zeppelin and then I throw them off [TS]

  and they they flooded the ground while [TS]

  on fire police fire a delight to pull [TS]

  fireworks display all the burning books [TS]

  is generally not it's from the plots [TS]

  let's not even books burn themselves it [TS]

  doesn't count [TS]

  that's right out of your growth [TS]

  self-immolating and I on that note I [TS]

  think that we can call call this a a [TS]

  success we we mentioned many books prove [TS]

  that we aren't illiterate and we've got [TS]

  a big to-do list involving Zeppelin's [TS]

  for the future proof that were not [TS]

  illiterate okay i'll mail you something [TS]

  to read out loud next time to prove [TS]

  you're not a little if you have a kid if [TS]

  you have a kindle you can be illiterate [TS]

  you can read to you can read to you [TS]

  that's true in a nice soothing robotic [TS]

  voice lower back where we started and it [TS]

  is monotonous well thank you to glen and [TS]

  to Dan and two Scott and Jason and we [TS]

  are the the geeky book club participants [TS]

  for today and to you listeners out there [TS]

  whoever you might be [TS]

  thank you for listening [TS]

  for more information about the pivot the [TS]

  incomparable [TS]

  [Music] [TS]