Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 15.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Igloo, an internet you'll actually like.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Dash, where you can create beautiful dashboards with just a few clicks.

00:00:18 ◼   ► And MailRoute, a secure hosted email service for protection from viruses and spam.

00:00:23 ◼   ► My name is Myke Curley and I am joined as always by your co-host and mine, Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Hello Mr. Myke Hurley, how are you?

00:00:31 ◼   ► I am very well. Mr. Jason Snell, I should have introduced you as a, you know, I have

00:00:35 ◼   ► someone calling in from Phoenix, Arizona.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Jason Snell, welcome to the show.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Hi Myke, I'm a long time listener and for, and all, all time co-host. So, yes, from,

00:00:47 ◼   ► from beautiful Phoenix, Arizona where I'm sitting in the corner of a guest bedroom at

00:00:51 ◼   ► my mother's house where I've recorded many episodes of various podcasts over the years

00:00:56 ◼   ► and the acoustics aren't great but you know we will we will manage.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Well you sound good to me. Mainly you're here and that's kind of all I worry about.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Yes, present.

00:01:07 ◼   ► Because otherwise the show would have been very different just me.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Just like Jason.

00:01:12 ◼   ► That's right, just one man's descent into madness.

00:01:17 ◼   ► So you very nearly made the decision to record from the road. There was some definite discussion

00:01:25 ◼   ► over the last couple of days.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Yeah, it turns out that the first part of the journey out of sort of Palm Springs and

00:01:34 ◼   ► up into the desert from, because we were driving from LA to Phoenix, is there are actually

00:01:39 ◼   ► some no service areas.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Those are not good.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Not good for podcasting if we're going to actually talk.

00:01:46 ◼   ► But it turns out that further over sort of in the Arizona part of the desert before you

00:01:50 ◼   ► get to Phoenix, the service was actually okay.

00:01:52 ◼   ► And I was getting data the whole time.

00:01:55 ◼   ► So we could have done it, although, you know, cars are loud.

00:01:59 ◼   ► It would have sounded terrible and it would have been distracting and my whole family

00:02:03 ◼   ► would have hated me because I would have been telling them to not talk while I was doing

00:02:07 ◼   ► the podcast and it seems like a bad idea.

00:02:09 ◼   ► So...

00:02:10 ◼   ► Children be quiet and listen to this one-sided conversation.

00:02:13 ◼   ► I did think about like recording something for you from out in the middle of the desert

00:02:18 ◼   ► just to drop in, but then I just decided that would not be worth the effort.

00:02:24 ◼   ► So there has been a wide-scale debate on the internet over the last week about the way

00:02:35 ◼   ► we refer to our listeners, how we give them a collective name.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Now we had decided on Upgraders.

00:02:44 ◼   ► That was what me and Jason felt would be the preferred nomenclature, would be Upgraders.

00:02:53 ◼   ► However, we've had lots of feedback, and if you would allow me, Jason, I would like to

00:02:56 ◼   ► run through some of the popular suggestions and some of the reasoning behind the suggestions.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Popular and unpopular suggestions.

00:03:05 ◼   ► So we have a potential upgrader, Diane.

00:03:09 ◼   ► Diane wrote in, and this is what Diane had to say, "Please allow me to justify my preference

00:03:15 ◼   ► of upgradians over upgraders.

00:03:18 ◼   ► An upgrader is someone who is actively working on a process that will be completed within

00:03:22 ◼   ► a period of time. As an example, I was an upgrader from BBEdit 10 to BBEdit 11.0.1.

00:03:28 ◼   ► When the download and install were complete, I was no longer in the temporary class upgrader.

00:03:32 ◼   ► Consider the suffix -ians. I argue upgradians connotes membership in a cohort, not individuals

00:03:38 ◼   ► trapped in a temporary condition. Upgradians may be characterized as members of a community

00:03:43 ◼   ► who listen to the upgrade podcast. We, by that I mean I, probably listen to other Relay

00:03:49 ◼   ► AFM podcasts. Well, why probably? Anyway, in a nutshell, that is my reason for

00:03:55 ◼   ► preferring Upgradians. I know it doesn't trip off the tongue as easy as the

00:04:01 ◼   ► other word, but you're experienced professional podcasters, so that would

00:04:05 ◼   ► make no difference. So Diane's view was shared by others. There were many other

00:04:09 ◼   ► people who liked Upgradians, but we have some other suggestions. Most of

00:04:13 ◼   ► these taken from the hashtag #askupgrade, which is - we're gonna talk about that again in

00:04:17 ◼   ► a bit but that is providing very fruitful.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Oh yes.

00:04:21 ◼   ► There's a lot more in there every week than I expect.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Yes, there are also ridiculous things in there every week which is kind of delightful and

00:04:27 ◼   ► also completely ridiculous.

00:04:29 ◼   ► But yes #AskUpgrade is working well so far.

00:04:32 ◼   ► So listener Chris liked the upgraded.

00:04:35 ◼   ► There were many people that would like the upgraded but I don't like that you kind of

00:04:39 ◼   ► have to use two words.

00:04:41 ◼   ► We'd have to say the upgraded and that kind of sounds a little bit like a cult.

00:04:46 ◼   ► It sounds very much like a cult or the other thing that it reminded me of was the Cybermen

00:04:52 ◼   ► from Doctor Who who want to turn you into a mindless automaton and remove all your emotions

00:04:58 ◼   ► by upgrading you.

00:04:59 ◼   ► This is not good.

00:05:00 ◼   ► This is not good.

00:05:01 ◼   ► And also the Cybermen are terrible villains.

00:05:04 ◼   ► They're crappy.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:05:06 ◼   ► There was someone that suggested calling, using the name the Cybermen.

00:05:12 ◼   ► I can't find it now.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Oh great.

00:05:14 ◼   ► That was definitely in there.

00:05:16 ◼   ► - Wow, that is too nerdy even for me.

00:05:19 ◼   ► - We have @thatchipguy, why would upgrade fans

00:05:23 ◼   ► be called anything other than Cybermen?

00:05:25 ◼   ► - Well that's Chip Sutter, who is a Doctor Who podcaster,

00:05:29 ◼   ► and of course he would suggest that.

00:05:31 ◼   ► No Chip, no.

00:05:33 ◼   ► - So we also have, we have listener Jason,

00:05:36 ◼   ► he wanted to go down the Jason route,

00:05:39 ◼   ► he thought that was good, so he suggested Snellians,

00:05:42 ◼   ► or Snurlys, I quite like Snurlys.

00:05:44 ◼   ► - I don't even understand that one.

00:05:46 ◼   ► - It's a mix between our names.

00:05:50 ◼   ► - I guess, that's weird.

00:05:52 ◼   ► - Listener Anthony, he suggested Upgraduates.

00:05:56 ◼   ► But then I kind of say Upgraduates,

00:06:00 ◼   ► which doesn't make any sense

00:06:01 ◼   ► 'cause the show's not called Upgrid.

00:06:02 ◼   ► - Yeah. - You know?

00:06:04 ◼   ► And then co-founder Steven suggested Upgradalets

00:06:08 ◼   ► and Snellers.

00:06:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, Lil Snellers. - Lil Snellers.

00:06:13 ◼   ► So, Jason. - Oh, Steven.

00:06:15 ◼   ► - I feel like we need to make a decision on this.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Like, we need to draw a line in the sand right now.

00:06:21 ◼   ► We've allowed feedback from the audience of Upgrade

00:06:26 ◼   ► and they have suggested what they would like

00:06:31 ◼   ► to be referred to.

00:06:34 ◼   ► What is your feeling about how we proceed?

00:06:38 ◼   ► I, it's difficult for me. I feel like that we have no consensus here. Although I think

00:06:48 ◼   ► we've got some strong front runners. I also, you know, it reminds me of the days of Star

00:06:52 ◼   ► Trek fans wanting to be, some of them want to be Trekkers and some of them want to be

00:06:56 ◼   ► Trekkies and all that. And I should say I'm honored that people even care slightly about

00:07:02 ◼   ► what to call people who listen to this podcast because probably they should just, you know,

00:07:07 ◼   ► and then move on with their lives to another podcast but if we had to make a decision,

00:07:11 ◼   ► I like the idea of a sort of a schism where we have to say, "Good evening, upgrade-ians

00:07:15 ◼   ► and up-graders," as if it was ladies and gentlemen. Like, you could be either. What do they mean?

00:07:21 ◼   ► I don't know. Listener Diane's suggestion is strong of upgrade-ians but it does sound

00:07:28 ◼   ► a little bit like an alien, or a math problem, frankly.

00:07:34 ◼   ► So I'm not sure.

00:07:37 ◼   ► I feel like the jury's still out and we need some more compelling arguments before we make

00:07:41 ◼   ► a final decision.

00:07:42 ◼   ► What do you think, Myke?

00:07:43 ◼   ► >> Well, I do really--I also really like Diane's explanation, and I could be on board with

00:07:51 ◼   ► Upgradients because it's kind of like Guardians, you know, the Upgradients of the galaxy.

00:07:57 ◼   ► I kind of like that idea.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Sure.

00:07:59 ◼   ► It's very much like that.

00:08:01 ◼   ► But I do still like Upgraders.

00:08:05 ◼   ► Because I don't know, there's something about that, which is quite fun.

00:08:09 ◼   ► I'll be Star Lord and you can be Rocket Raccoon.

00:08:12 ◼   ► Yeah, I like that.

00:08:13 ◼   ► I can deal with that.

00:08:14 ◼   ► All right.

00:08:15 ◼   ► So what do you do you still want to leave the jury out for one more week?

00:08:18 ◼   ► I think so.

00:08:19 ◼   ► I think I think we should vow to settle this matter by the end of the by the end of the

00:08:24 ◼   ► year.

00:08:25 ◼   ► Anybody would like to make other compelling cases.

00:08:28 ◼   ► I think upgradians and upgraders are still our strongest.

00:08:33 ◼   ► Maybe what we could do is we could leave it for one more week and then maybe set up a

00:08:36 ◼   ► poll.

00:08:37 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:08:38 ◼   ► And we go into 2015 with there being a poll and then the winner.

00:08:42 ◼   ► I don't know, Myke.

00:08:43 ◼   ► This is not a democracy.

00:08:47 ◼   ► We want this to be a democracy?

00:08:48 ◼   ► Then we should just call them citizens.

00:08:49 ◼   ► That's a good point.

00:08:51 ◼   ► Or upgradizens.

00:08:52 ◼   ► I've said many times we do not run a democracy here, you know, when it comes to

00:08:57 ◼   ► like show titles and stuff like that. Exactly. We could do a poll and then take

00:09:01 ◼   ► their suggestion and choose whether to ignore it or not. Let's go into next

00:09:08 ◼   ► week and we'll see where we end up. Okay. Now Jason, I want to take a quick

00:09:13 ◼   ► break before we go on to some #AskUpgrade submitted questions this

00:09:20 ◼   ► week. So I want to play the first of our sponsors this week. We have a

00:09:26 ◼   ► couple of special musical bits. And so our first friends at Igloo, they

00:09:33 ◼   ► requested something was put together and this is the result of that.

00:09:39 ◼   ► (soft music)

00:09:41 ◼   ► - There's a long intro here.

00:09:57 ◼   ► - There is a long intro.

00:09:58 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:09:59 ◼   ► ♪ I'm dreaming of a new internet ♪

00:10:06 ◼   ► Internet, just like the tools I use at home.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Where the comments glisten and your bosses listen

00:10:26 ◼   ► as you share GIFs of Santa working from home.

00:10:35 ◼   ► I'm dreaming of a fun intranet With every blog post that I write

00:10:52 ◼   ► May your days be productive and bright With an intranet you'll actually like

00:11:10 ◼   ► Isn't that beautiful?

00:11:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:13 ◼   ► Those voices just...

00:11:15 ◼   ► I love--thank you to Igloo, an intranet you'll actually like, for sponsoring that.

00:11:21 ◼   ► And I'll point out, actually we have a comment in the chat room about, "Hey, we like it when

00:11:28 ◼   ► you read the sponsors and don't do the pre-recorded ads, but what you may not have understood

00:11:34 ◼   ► there is that two of those three singers are me and Myke."

00:11:39 ◼   ► And then Lex Friedman is the third.

00:11:41 ◼   ► So you were hearing our voices, they just made us sing.

00:11:45 ◼   ► They made us sing.

00:11:46 ◼   ► They forced us.

00:11:47 ◼   ► We had to do it.

00:11:48 ◼   ► came down with their hammers like, "You must sing this one!" No, it was pure

00:11:54 ◼   ► this, you know, we're having a bit of fun, it's the holiday season, and

00:11:58 ◼   ► if you like, if you really love hearing me and Jason read the

00:12:05 ◼   ► ads, it will all go back to normal next week. Maybe not this week. No, you've got

00:12:11 ◼   ► lots more songs this week, you've got more songs today, but I really love them,

00:12:15 ◼   ► and I very much enjoyed warming up my vocal cords for the Igloo. So thank you so much to Igloo. Go to IglooSoftware.com/upgrade.

00:12:26 ◼   ► We love those guys. They're great friends and happy holidays to one and all.

00:12:30 ◼   ► #AskUpgrade. So the hashtag has been alive this week again.

00:12:37 ◼   ► And I've pulled out a couple of interesting questions that I would like to go through with you, Mr. Snell.

00:12:44 ◼   ► Alright. So we have @AlwaysBreaking.

00:12:47 ◼   ► "Wondered what mouse do you use with the shiny new iMac?"

00:12:52 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I remember I answered him on Twitter but of course nobody who isn't

00:12:57 ◼   ► following me in AlwaysBreaking would know this.

00:12:59 ◼   ► I, so for a long time, I haven't used a mouse in ages, for a long time I used the

00:13:05 ◼   ► Kensington

00:13:06 ◼   ► Expert, is it Expert Mouse? First it was the Turbo Mouse, I think it's the Expert Mouse now,

00:13:10 ◼   ► which is the big trackball.

00:13:12 ◼   ► and they added like a little ring around the trackball so you could get the scroll wheel kind of action and that was pretty cool.

00:13:18 ◼   ► At some point, I think because I've been using my laptop so much, and I think I might have mentioned this on a previous show,

00:13:24 ◼   ► I switched to the Magic Trackpad.

00:13:29 ◼   ► And part of that is that the feel of it, you know, in very basic terms is a lot like using the trackball

00:13:38 ◼   ► because trackpads were replacements for trackballs anyway.

00:13:41 ◼   ► and so the mousing didn't feel that different plus I was used to using a

00:13:45 ◼   ► trackpad on my laptop

00:13:47 ◼   ► and I've had a, you know, a laptop as my primary system for most of my time

00:13:52 ◼   ► as a Mac user the last like 15 years is that I've had a laptop

00:13:56 ◼   ► so yeah, so the Apple, as boring an answer as that is, the Apple Magic

00:14:00 ◼   ► Trackpad is my answer

00:14:02 ◼   ► I like the gestures, I like scrolling, the two fingers scrolling

00:14:05 ◼   ► and that's definitely what I

00:14:09 ◼   ► what I use now. I've never, I mean I can't remember, I guess in college I used a mouse

00:14:14 ◼   ► when I had a Mac SE I used a mouse, but once I went to Mac User actually in '94, '93, I

00:14:21 ◼   ► remember that's where I first saw that trackball and one of the editors had one and when she

00:14:25 ◼   ► left I said, "Can I use her trackball?" and they said, "Sure, just take it." And I've

00:14:31 ◼   ► used, I used that model of trackball up until about four years ago I think when I switched

00:14:37 ◼   ► to the Magic Trackpad. Have you ever had any RSI type pain or anything like that of any

00:14:46 ◼   ► kind? No, I think I've been really fortunate because having learned a lot more about RSI

00:14:52 ◼   ► issues and having some friends who have suffered from it pretty severely, I mean everybody

00:14:56 ◼   ► knows I think that John Syracuse basically dictates his OS X reviews because he has RSI

00:15:05 ◼   ► and since he's a programmer he's doing a lot of typing at work and there's no way he could

00:15:09 ◼   ► then come home and type articles in his extra time as a writer. So he dictates all of that.

00:15:15 ◼   ► So and my friend Shauli McFarland who used to be an editor at Macworld, she had incredibly severe

00:15:21 ◼   ► RSI like you wouldn't believe the physical problems that she had as a result of being

00:15:28 ◼   ► at a desk typing all the time. I've been fortunate to escape most of that. I think sometimes I wonder

00:15:34 ◼   ► it's probably just that I'm lucky that it just so happens that I haven't had a

00:15:38 ◼   ► lot of those issues

00:15:39 ◼   ► because you know when I was using an Apple II when I was a kid

00:15:44 ◼   ► that was the least ergonomic thing ever I mean I would just sit there and type

00:15:47 ◼   ► and type you know hundreds of words you know hundred words a minute on this

00:15:51 ◼   ► clicky

00:15:52 ◼   ► clacky keyboard that was way too high and I was contorted into all sorts of weird

00:15:56 ◼   ► positions and

00:15:56 ◼   ► somehow it didn't affect me so whether that was a the crucible that like

00:16:00 ◼   ► did something to make me... it's like a superhero

00:16:04 ◼   ► it's like he's now impervious to all keyboard related injuries

00:16:09 ◼   ► I don't know but I've been fortunate. Recently I've had some issues with my

00:16:13 ◼   ► back and my shoulder where I've had

00:16:15 ◼   ► I've had a little bit of a hint of what that must be like for people

00:16:19 ◼   ► and although it hasn't been that big of a deal for me, I can only imagine

00:16:23 ◼   ► so I don't know I think I'm lucky I think I'm just one of those people who's

00:16:27 ◼   ► lucky to have a body that is not affected by

00:16:30 ◼   ► those particular kinds of injuries.

00:16:33 ◼   ► So, thinking about August this year,

00:16:36 ◼   ► I've had back pain for a while but I was starting to get

00:16:40 ◼   ► quite bad pain in my wrists, arm and hands.

00:16:43 ◼   ► So I knew something bad was happening. I'd recently changed my desk setup

00:16:49 ◼   ► and I was working a lot more on my laptop and it was just on my desk

00:16:55 ◼   ► and that was because we were preparing

00:16:58 ◼   ► relay at that time so I was doing lots of stuff for a lot longer periods than usual.

00:17:04 ◼   ► And I was recording with Marco Ammann and I asked him a question before we recorded

00:17:13 ◼   ► I think it was episode one of inquisitive because I knew that he'd used he uses that Microsoft

00:17:19 ◼   ► sculpt ergonomic keyboard right you know this the one's got the hole in the middle

00:17:23 ◼   ► so I asked him about it and he was and he basically said the same sort of thing he started

00:17:27 ◼   ► to get pain, then he totally changed the way that he works.

00:17:31 ◼   ► So I have a, I have like, if you saw my desk, I mean people have seen pictures of it, there

00:17:35 ◼   ► are so many input methods here.

00:17:38 ◼   ► So I have my MacBook Pro, it sits on like a Griffin stand, which is this stand, keeps

00:17:45 ◼   ► it high, so it keeps it closer to eye level.

00:17:48 ◼   ► I have a Microsoft Sculpt ergonomic keyboard that I use for the MacBook Pro.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Then I have an Apple Magic, Mighty, Magic, Mighty Mouse?

00:17:59 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, Magic Mouse.

00:18:00 ◼   ► - Is Magic Mouse the most current one?

00:18:02 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:18:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have a Magic Mouse, which is okay.

00:18:05 ◼   ► I use the Magic Mouse because the gestures

00:18:08 ◼   ► to swipe between spaces is something

00:18:11 ◼   ► that I use an awful lot.

00:18:12 ◼   ► So I kind of, that's why I go with that.

00:18:17 ◼   ► But then I also have, on the production machine,

00:18:22 ◼   ► I use a Logitech wireless mouse, the MX mouse,

00:18:27 ◼   ► which is really great.

00:18:30 ◼   ► I originally bought that for the MacBook Pro

00:18:32 ◼   ► to go along with the Microsoft keyboard,

00:18:34 ◼   ► but I couldn't get used to not having the spaces support.

00:18:39 ◼   ► And I also use a trackpad, so on the production machine,

00:18:42 ◼   ► I actually edit with both hands,

00:18:44 ◼   ► which is, I like doing that, so I use the trackpad

00:18:49 ◼   ► to zoom in and pan around logic,

00:18:50 ◼   ► and the mouse to do more refined editing and those pains in my wrist and hands practically

00:18:57 ◼   ► completely gone away.

00:18:59 ◼   ► And I think it's great because I've sort of sorted out my my setup a little bit more.

00:19:05 ◼   ► Yeah there's a lot of hardware things you can do there are a lot of behavioral things

00:19:09 ◼   ► you can do I mean I mentioned I mentioned I think was a break time that is an app that

00:19:15 ◼   ► It just reminds you to get up every however long, every 20 minutes, every 30 minutes.

00:19:21 ◼   ► And when I've had my little back and shoulder issue, that's one of the things that I've

00:19:24 ◼   ► been doing is just, you know, take some time to stretch and move around.

00:19:28 ◼   ► And I also have an adjustable, it's a sit-stand desk, so depending on how I'm feeling, that's

00:19:34 ◼   ► a way to change it up.

00:19:36 ◼   ► And so I'll sit for a while and I'll stand for a while.

00:19:38 ◼   ► My issue is that there are certain tasks that on the computer that I really don't feel like

00:19:44 ◼   ► I can do standing and there are other ones that are fine and so some I don't know why

00:19:49 ◼   ► it's just psychological like really really getting into writing something is something

00:19:53 ◼   ► that I have a hard time doing from you know from standing it's just there's something

00:19:57 ◼   ► about it that's not that that's not where I do my writing.

00:20:00 ◼   ► It does feel like a seating activity.

00:20:03 ◼   ► Yeah it's just something about like hunkering down and focusing and and not doing you know

00:20:08 ◼   ► maybe I'm standing wrong but anyway that adds some variety to it that even the

00:20:13 ◼   ► with the breaks and all that sometimes I feel like I just I don't want to sit anymore, I

00:20:18 ◼   ► can't sit anymore and then I stand for a while and then I feel tired that I've been standing

00:20:23 ◼   ► too long and then I just it provides a little more variety and it's great because when I

00:20:27 ◼   ► started working nobody in most offices cared about this stuff at all and was really thinking

00:20:32 ◼   ► about it and by the time you know even ten years had passed there were lots of people

00:20:36 ◼   ► with all sorts of different keyboard setups and all sorts of different pointing devices.

00:20:41 ◼   ► Several of my friends have that vertical mouse that's like a joystick on a cart kind of thing

00:20:50 ◼   ► where basically you grip the handle of the mouse and it's upright and then you just roll

00:20:57 ◼   ► it around on the desk.

00:21:00 ◼   ► And that's that same idea of like it's getting your wrists out of the kind of unnatural rotation

00:21:07 ◼   ► that it has on the keyboard.

00:21:10 ◼   ► So we're in a better place now where there are many more options and people are much

00:21:12 ◼   ► more aware of this, which is great because lots of people suffer from this.

00:21:15 ◼   ► I've been fortunate to not be affected by it.

00:21:18 ◼   ► It would be very difficult.

00:21:21 ◼   ► I've seen it happen to other people and they manage but it's hard.

00:21:24 ◼   ► So I'm glad you found something that works for you.

00:21:26 ◼   ► So I'm now standing up.

00:21:29 ◼   ► So we have that.

00:21:30 ◼   ► Alright, that's good.

00:21:34 ◼   ► I figure I should probably do this, like because I sit for hours recording the shows.

00:21:39 ◼   ► Oh yeah, and I can podcast standing up, that's a good one. There's title suggestions someone.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Podcasting standing up is something that's pretty doable.

00:21:49 ◼   ► Stand up podcaster.

00:21:50 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right, you can do it. Everybody up.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Maybe I should do, Mia, I might try and do this, because I know that on MacPower users,

00:21:57 ◼   ► great MacPower users by the way.

00:21:59 ◼   ► Oh thanks.

00:22:00 ◼   ► I know that you mentioned that you turn break time off whilst you're recording.

00:22:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:05 ◼   ► you know, maybe there's maybe what I think I might do is leave it on and then just kind

00:22:11 ◼   ► of stand up and sit down again because really you probably won't notice the difference.

00:22:15 ◼   ► I have a very quiet boom arm and nothing else will change too much so.

00:22:19 ◼   ► Right. Well, the problem with is the break time wants you to take a break from using

00:22:22 ◼   ► your Mac and so you get locked out of your show notes and things like that.

00:22:26 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I won't let it do that because you can stop it from doing that. Can't you

00:22:29 ◼   ► just have it to remind you to get up so I might do that.

00:22:32 ◼   ► Yeah, that would work.

00:22:34 ◼   ► @landonjh asked, "What Apple case should I get for my iPhone 6 Plus, leather or silicone?"

00:22:41 ◼   ► He also asked what color. So we're supposed to pick the color for @landonjh.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Oh, I can help with the color, actually.

00:22:48 ◼   ► All right, good, good.

00:22:49 ◼   ► So, I had a blue one, a blue silicone case. I would say go silicone for the 6 Plus because

00:22:54 ◼   ► it adds more grip than the leather, and that's a really important thing. I had the blue one,

00:22:59 ◼   ► and I liked the color of it a lot, but it was getting really screwed up. Like, the corners

00:23:04 ◼   ► were coming apart like so the silicone was coming off and it was exposing the

00:23:08 ◼   ► plastic underneath and I was really kind of annoyed by it and then I was in the

00:23:13 ◼   ► apples I was in an Apple store on World AIDS Day and kind of got swept up in it

00:23:17 ◼   ► so bought the red case and it's it's still silicone but it's it feels

00:23:22 ◼   ► slightly different it's not as grippy as the blue one and this one is staying

00:23:26 ◼   ► together really well I think the problem was is I don't know if they've changed

00:23:29 ◼   ► the material it may well have done it's possible but the blue one it was so

00:23:33 ◼   ► grippy that it was kind of pulling itself apart from my when I put it in my

00:23:37 ◼   ► pockets. You know because it's it was if that's what I can assume happened

00:23:42 ◼   ► because it's happening at the corners which is obviously where it's going to

00:23:44 ◼   ► be pushed the most as it goes into my pocket. So I would suggest I like the red

00:23:49 ◼   ► one a lot and of course if you buy the red one you are doing something good for

00:23:52 ◼   ► the world so I would suggest going red and going silicone. And all I'll say is I

00:23:58 ◼   ► don't have the 6 Plus I just have the 6. I am still using the Apple letter case

00:24:02 ◼   ► which is the first case, this is the longest I've gone with any case on my iPhone ever

00:24:06 ◼   ► and it's mostly because I like the added grip on the 6 because it can be a little slippery

00:24:13 ◼   ► and my case is the Midnight Blue I believe it's called and it looks great and keeps looking

00:24:19 ◼   ► better because the leather starts to wear and I know there was, I mentioned this in

00:24:23 ◼   ► a previous show, we had a comment from somebody who said "I don't like those leather cases

00:24:26 ◼   ► because they, you know, they change over time" and it's like well that's what they do, that's

00:24:32 ◼   ► is what leather is so I like it so you know you can ignore everything Myke said

00:24:37 ◼   ► or go with what Myke said because he does have the 6+ he's gonna you are an

00:24:40 ◼   ► expert on the 6+ I will give that to you over over me so I love but 6+

00:24:46 ◼   ► Jason but I like I like I don't like the silicon cases because I feel too grippy

00:24:50 ◼   ► and they also like pick up lint and stuff and and the leather cases don't do

00:24:54 ◼   ► that yeah I know you don't think I have to kind of brush it down I know you like

00:24:59 ◼   ► your 6+ though that's good it's good somebody has to huh anyway I do feel

00:25:05 ◼   ► like an outcast a little bit you know I make these decisions that that that

00:25:11 ◼   ► people don't don't agree with and this is one of them I know that I'm gonna be

00:25:15 ◼   ► like at WWDC and everyone's gonna be like hahaha you bought the big phone but you're gonna have you're gonna find

00:25:21 ◼   ► your your tribe you're gonna find your people who have the the 6+ and you're

00:25:24 ◼   ► all gonna be like oh yeah those guys don't know what they're missing and it's

00:25:27 ◼   ► gonna be fine yeah it's gonna be fine I just find my people mm-hmm they're out

00:25:33 ◼   ► there so tell me Jason what did Joe Steele wanna know yeah I added this one

00:25:39 ◼   ► for the list Joe Steele listen Joe wanted to know a hashtag ask upgrade has

00:25:45 ◼   ► Myke seen a Christmas story is that a thing in the UK and this is a you did

00:25:49 ◼   ► the movie a Christmas story is actually broadcast on one of the cable networks

00:25:54 ◼   ► here for 24 hours on Christmas Day they just broadcast it over and over again

00:25:57 ◼   ► again and Joe just wants to know if you've seen it. I've not seen a Christmas

00:26:02 ◼   ► story. It's pretty good. I don't really know anything about it. It's a well it's sort of a

00:26:07 ◼   ► memoir kind of story about a guy telling a story about a particularly memorable

00:26:12 ◼   ► Christmas when he was a kid in the 50s and it's pretty funny you should you

00:26:16 ◼   ► should check it out sometime it's a good it's a good Christmas watch. Why of all

00:26:21 ◼   ► the Christmas movies is this the one that's broadcast 24 hours a day?

00:26:25 ◼   ► I don't know, I mean there's so many channels you could probably, every channel could get their own Christmas movie and

00:26:30 ◼   ► run it all all day long too, but I think TBS does that in the US.

00:26:36 ◼   ► I don't know, I think they just decided they had the rights to it

00:26:38 ◼   ► and they thought it would be a nice stunt and it does it has picked up a

00:26:42 ◼   ► following and that following continues.

00:26:44 ◼   ► I think it actually grows now because it's become this kind of television tradition that it's always aired all day by one of the major

00:26:51 ◼   ► cable channels and I don't know,

00:26:53 ◼   ► I suspect it's because they got the rights and they liked it

00:26:55 ◼   ► But they also they had the rights and they wanted to get attention and so they announced this stunt

00:26:59 ◼   ► But now it's become it has become a tradition

00:27:01 ◼   ► We also have Elliot Elliot F on Twitter Jason

00:27:07 ◼   ► Yblaine Amazon or Apple for international barriers when it's copyright lawyers at fault

00:27:11 ◼   ► This is following up from a lot of our conversations about international

00:27:15 ◼   ► licensing and all of that and and I put this in here because I don't think it's copy I

00:27:22 ◼   ► I think you're right that in many cases Amazon and Apple have nothing to do with this.

00:27:26 ◼   ► I don't think it's copyright lawyers at fault. I think what's happening is a lot of the rights holders

00:27:30 ◼   ► for this stuff

00:27:33 ◼   ► have erected

00:27:35 ◼   ► barriers for the

00:27:38 ◼   ► whole licensing regime for a lot of stuff was based on a world where

00:27:42 ◼   ► country barriers meant something and with the internet they don't

00:27:46 ◼   ► the bottom line they don't you can buy something from anyone anywhere digitally and it doesn't matter and

00:27:51 ◼   ► And so I think a lot of the things that we see now are a result of that history and so

00:27:58 ◼   ► it had to do with licensing.

00:28:00 ◼   ► So in some places it's the content creators who said we're going to sell this to you in

00:28:05 ◼   ► the US and you in the UK and you in Liechtenstein and you in San Marino and you in Switzerland

00:28:13 ◼   ► and you and make this like totally arcane set of conflicting licensing arrangements

00:28:21 ◼   ► that will take ages to untangle.

00:28:24 ◼   ► So I think that's part of it.

00:28:26 ◼   ► I do think where Apple and Amazon can come to blame, and I think Amazon much more than

00:28:29 ◼   ► Apple because Apple, if you look at maps, Apple is about the best across all these different

00:28:35 ◼   ► digital media at being in lots of countries.

00:28:37 ◼   ► It's the prioritization that Apple has made it a priority to take a lot of its stores

00:28:42 ◼   ► into lots of countries and Amazon really hasn't. There was a time when if you looked at Amazon's

00:28:50 ◼   ► map of where they sold X it was almost always US and UK. That was it.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Our friends at MacStories they did a great post of who is where and it has interactive

00:29:05 ◼   ► maps and stuff like that. I'm going to put that in show notes which you can find at relay.fm/upgrades/15

00:29:12 ◼   ► 15, and it shows like Apple, Microsoft, Google, and Amazon, and what services they have and

00:29:18 ◼   ► where they're available.

00:29:19 ◼   ► It's a really interesting piece.

00:29:22 ◼   ► And that's where I think you can start blaming people, because yay, we love blaming people,

00:29:27 ◼   ► is if you see like Apple in every country, and then Amazon's in three, it obviously wasn't

00:29:34 ◼   ► impossible for Apple to get in every country.

00:29:36 ◼   ► They put in the work and they felt there was some reward, and then Amazon seems content

00:29:42 ◼   ► I mean I think this is true just looking at their behavior.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Amazon seems a lot less interested in conquering the world than they do like really really

00:29:50 ◼   ► conquering a very small number of countries.

00:29:54 ◼   ► Whereas Apple wants to conquer the world and Google I think wants to conquer the world

00:30:00 ◼   ► but Amazon has taken a different approach to it.

00:30:02 ◼   ► So I would say that's the one place where it's fair but I think in general it's all

00:30:07 ◼   ► just kind of ridiculous.

00:30:08 ◼   ► understand in some cases it makes sense that if you're the BBC and you make a

00:30:12 ◼   ► program and then you want it to air in the US too, you know, you make a deal

00:30:15 ◼   ► where now the US broadcaster gets it and and so they can't, the BBC can't sell it

00:30:20 ◼   ► in America because the American broadcaster has the rights to it. It

00:30:24 ◼   ► makes sense on that level but when it comes to things like this book is not

00:30:27 ◼   ► available, this ebook is not available in your country when it's available in all

00:30:32 ◼   ► these other countries, that's when it gets a little bit ridiculous.

00:30:37 ◼   ► Oh, I have one more update. This is not a hashtag ask, but on the previous show we mentioned

00:30:44 ◼   ► listener Matt or possibly former listener Matt and speculated because he was saying

00:30:51 ◼   ► you guys are talking a lot about working at home and quitting your jobs and you know are

00:30:54 ◼   ► you going to talk more about technology and we speculated about whether he was even listening

00:30:58 ◼   ► to us and the answer is he is listening. He is not former listener Matt, he is listener

00:31:02 ◼   ► Matt and he let me know the other day that he had listened and he was happy to listen

00:31:08 ◼   ► to the podcast and he will be a committed upgrader/upgrading into the future.

00:31:13 ◼   ► So yay to former and current once and future listener Matt.

00:31:18 ◼   ► We're glad that you're still here Matthew.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:22 ◼   ► Jason, would you like to tell me about MailRoute?

00:31:26 ◼   ► Uh, yes I would.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Wait, let's play the song for MailRoute.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Here comes MailRoute, here comes MailRoute, right down MailRoute lane.

00:31:39 ◼   ► I don't have a song for MailRoute, that's all I came up with.

00:31:43 ◼   ► Bringing mailbags without spamming.

00:31:48 ◼   ► Oh.

00:31:49 ◼   ► Oh, yes, I mean, I've said this before, MailRoute, I use MailRoute, it is a server-side spam

00:31:58 ◼   ► filtering service, so basically you hook it up before it gets to your mail server.

00:32:05 ◼   ► And so it takes your mail in, and using their servers, they do very clever things to detect

00:32:12 ◼   ► whether it's spam or not, and they prevent that from even being delivered.

00:32:16 ◼   ► I started actually using MailRoute when I was still doing some... when I was on a slow

00:32:23 ◼   ► internet connection.

00:32:25 ◼   ► The more I could filter out before it reached me, the better.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Because there's client-side stuff that's filtering it in your mailbox, but MailRoute does it

00:32:32 ◼   ► on the server.

00:32:33 ◼   ► So they take your mail, run it through a spam filter, move the spam aside, and you have

00:32:38 ◼   ► lots of settings to say how aggressive or not aggressive you want to be.

00:32:42 ◼   ► And it works really well.

00:32:44 ◼   ► I think I've had one false positive in the last month where there was a good message

00:32:50 ◼   ► in spam and I clicked a link in their daily email to me and it automatically whitelisted

00:32:55 ◼   ► and delivered that message to me and that person who sent that message will never get

00:33:00 ◼   ► blocked again because they're now on the whitelist and it all happened automatically.

00:33:03 ◼   ► I didn't have to worry about it.

00:33:04 ◼   ► So mail route requires no hardware or software.

00:33:08 ◼   ► They just receive your mail, sort it and deliver it.

00:33:10 ◼   ► It's easy to set up.

00:33:11 ◼   ► It's reliable.

00:33:13 ◼   ► If you're somebody who does email administration, if you're an IT professional, all the tools

00:33:17 ◼   ► are built with you in mind, there's an API, LDAP Active Directory, TLS, mail bagging,

00:33:23 ◼   ► Myke's favorite, outbound relay, everything you want from people handling your mail, and

00:33:28 ◼   ► if you're a regular person like me, the user interface is a web interface, it's super simple,

00:33:34 ◼   ► you can adjust the settings to have it be as aggressive or not aggressive as you would

00:33:38 ◼   ► like it to be and they've got a great deal if you would like to try them out

00:33:42 ◼   ► there's a free trial and you can get 10% off the lifetime of your account if you

00:33:47 ◼   ► decide to buy you have to go to mail route dotnet that's mail route dotnet

00:33:51 ◼   ► slash upgrade and that's how you will get a free trial 10% off a lifetime of

00:33:57 ◼   ► your account and get the spam out of your inbox for good so thank you so much

00:34:03 ◼   ► to the song of the season mail routes for sponsoring upgrade yay thank you mail

00:34:10 ◼   ► route thank you mail route no that's not gonna work either we'll work on it what

00:34:15 ◼   ► will workshop a song for mail route sorry mail route we we didn't get a song

00:34:19 ◼   ► for you this time a new year's song from a route should spam messages be the live

00:34:28 ◼   ► No, I'll work on it.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Jason, what would you like to talk about today?

00:34:35 ◼   ► Oh, nothing much.

00:34:38 ◼   ► What should we wrap up?

00:34:40 ◼   ► What would you like to talk about, Myke?

00:34:43 ◼   ► So we have our little document where we conspire to figure out what we're going to be talking

00:34:49 ◼   ► about and you entered a bunch of stuff in but then I entered something in.

00:34:51 ◼   ► so I guess we'll start with mine but I put this in, I put in Travel Tech because I'm

00:34:58 ◼   ► traveling for this week and part of next week and every time I travel I have that thing

00:35:08 ◼   ► and I was curious what you do too.

00:35:10 ◼   ► I know you went to Italy recently and what devices do people bring, what's the thought

00:35:17 ◼   ► process about devices and accessories that we bring on trips.

00:35:21 ◼   ► I mentioned I was able to do a whole lot of stuff from the passenger seat of our car yesterday

00:35:27 ◼   ► going through the desert with my iPhone.

00:35:29 ◼   ► I was able, I edited a file on an FTP server, I did a blog post, I was answering emails

00:35:40 ◼   ► and tweets and things like that.

00:35:42 ◼   ► I was doing crazy stuff just from my phone and I had that moment of like, well I could

00:35:48 ◼   ► really do everything from the phone, but, and yet I brought my iPad and I brought my

00:35:53 ◼   ► laptop, although partly that's because podcasting sort of mandates a laptop right now.

00:35:59 ◼   ► And then my daughter brought her phone, my son brought his iPad, my wife brought her

00:36:04 ◼   ► iPad and her laptop because there was some stuff that she needed that she felt was only

00:36:08 ◼   ► going to be on the laptop.

00:36:10 ◼   ► So we ended up with this bag full of technology and then on top of that because some of the

00:36:15 ◼   ► kids' presents involve Wii U games, I brought the Wii U too and hooked it up to my mom's

00:36:22 ◼   ► TV.

00:36:24 ◼   ► So you know, basically I have a satchel full of technology that I brought with us and I

00:36:30 ◼   ► have a moment where I think well this is great, we just bring our tech with us and then everybody's

00:36:33 ◼   ► comfortable and then I have other moments where I think this is crazy, we should bring

00:36:37 ◼   ► like three things and and just use those for the week and I think you could do

00:36:43 ◼   ► that but we didn't do that so I don't know what what what thought processes do

00:36:49 ◼   ► you go through when you're when you're traveling I always take too much so like

00:36:54 ◼   ► yeah oh yeah I think to myself like I don't have everything then I'm gonna be

00:36:59 ◼   ► bored and I'm gonna like go out my mind you know like I take I always take my

00:37:06 ◼   ► iPhone naturally sometimes I will take my iPad on my last trip I took my kinlaw

00:37:12 ◼   ► and I always take like a handheld gaming console as well and it's probably too

00:37:17 ◼   ► much especially the iPad I've very rarely used my iPad especially when

00:37:24 ◼   ► traveling maybe I'll watch a movie on it but any flight where I kind of watch a

00:37:29 ◼   ► movie they probably got movies on the flight oh but like on my last trip I

00:37:34 ◼   ► went to Italy I took my laptop too because I was concerned that

00:37:38 ◼   ► there might be things that I needed to do whilst I was there. Like for example

00:37:45 ◼   ► we launched this show whilst I was in Italy so I was worried that

00:37:51 ◼   ► something might explode and I would need my laptop to do it you know. So I always

00:37:57 ◼   ► end up taking too much and probably in most scenarios if I have my iPhone and

00:38:03 ◼   ► and something to charge my iPhone, like a battery pack,

00:38:07 ◼   ► I can probably get by because I can put entertainment,

00:38:11 ◼   ► I can put movie on it, I can have my podcast on it,

00:38:13 ◼   ► I can put games on it too.

00:38:14 ◼   ► And I can kind of get most work done from it.

00:38:17 ◼   ► So really I could probably just do with my iPhone,

00:38:20 ◼   ► but I kind of take, I always take more than I need.

00:38:24 ◼   ► - Well, I described what we brought,

00:38:28 ◼   ► so you can see that I agree with you.

00:38:30 ◼   ► Yeah, with your six plus especially,

00:38:32 ◼   ► I question the need for you to bring an iPad, but it's it's there's they're small enough that you just kind of think all right

00:38:38 ◼   ► I'll bring it. I mean my we drove here

00:38:40 ◼   ► So when we're when we're flying obviously, I think the the calibration is a little bit different

00:38:45 ◼   ► But you know, I I'm also a fan of the best

00:38:49 ◼   ► Device for the job and if I can bring the Kindle and it doesn't really bring things

00:38:53 ◼   ► You know cause too much trouble in terms of packing. It's not a very big object

00:38:58 ◼   ► I'd rather read a book on the Kindle and the iPad I could totally read on the iPad

00:39:01 ◼   ► I could totally read on the iPhone. So I don't know, I have those moments where I

00:39:06 ◼   ► realize it's mostly with chargers that it gets me where I realized that I've got

00:39:10 ◼   ► I've got a little power brick that's got three plugs on it and two USB ports and

00:39:15 ◼   ► I bring that and I bring that make sure we get all the charging cables for the

00:39:19 ◼   ► you know the USB cables for the iPhones to plug into the USB ports and the

00:39:23 ◼   ► bigger charging cables for the iPads and the laptops and

00:39:30 ◼   ► And then I've got this just huge mass of chargers and cables and that's the thing that I notice

00:39:36 ◼   ► more than anything else.

00:39:37 ◼   ► And again I could bring fewer chargers but then I know that we're going to have to do

00:39:41 ◼   ► that dance of you know this one's only got 20% battery, well this one's only got 10%

00:39:46 ◼   ► battery.

00:39:47 ◼   ► Like who's got the least battery to use the charger right now?

00:39:52 ◼   ► And keeping in mind that I've got a 10 year old and a 13 year old so I've got them you

00:39:56 ◼   ► know in the back of my mind going huh but I need to use it but I need to use

00:40:00 ◼   ► it like just bring two so we end up with a rat's nest of cables and a billion

00:40:06 ◼   ► different devices and a giant heavy bag full of technology which you know it in

00:40:13 ◼   ► some ways we're bringing our you know we're bringing our comforts of home with

00:40:16 ◼   ► us so that the you know part of the challenge with kids especially is how do

00:40:23 ◼   ► you keep them entertained on a trip and that technology can do a great job there where

00:40:29 ◼   ► they're playing games or watching movies and all that and it's not that we don't interact

00:40:34 ◼   ► with them on the trip, we do plenty of that, but it's certainly a great additional feature

00:40:39 ◼   ► for kids and grown-ups alike to be able to be in touch with the world and entertained

00:40:43 ◼   ► when you're sitting in a car for, I don't know, probably 13 hours or something over

00:40:48 ◼   ► the course of two days so yeah I don't know it still seems like it's part of me

00:40:54 ◼   ► wants it to be as simple as possible like you could just do this trip with

00:40:58 ◼   ► your iPhone and then reality starts to come in and I think I can but I but but

00:41:04 ◼   ► why and unless I'm in a position where I like literally there's no reason to

00:41:09 ◼   ► bring anything it's gonna be a problem to bring things you know and if you're

00:41:15 ◼   ► going on a plane you try and travel to pack light that's a different a different story

00:41:19 ◼   ► but I don't know I just I figure this is what people maybe maybe people can can write in

00:41:27 ◼   ► if they've got some stories about this too about what their strategies are I'd be interested

00:41:31 ◼   ► in hearing it I just I think that this is a very interesting way that our lives work

00:41:35 ◼   ► now which is you end up being in this what do I bring with me phase that you know it's

00:41:40 ◼   ► It's difficult enough when it's how many pairs of underpants and how many shirts and do I

00:41:45 ◼   ► need the shoes and the sandals, do I need to, you know, all those kind of packing questions

00:41:51 ◼   ► and now on top of that you've got the, you know, how many chargers and do I want an iPad

00:41:55 ◼   ► and an iPhone on top of it.

00:41:57 ◼   ► It just adds to the complications of packing and traveling.

00:42:01 ◼   ► I would really love to have one charger, you know, like just one cable can charge you.

00:42:10 ◼   ► anything and it's like a dream situation you know so I don't have to have like to

00:42:16 ◼   ► remember to bring like the five separate cables maybe just to bring two cables

00:42:22 ◼   ► and I know that those two cables can do that can charge everything yeah that

00:42:29 ◼   ► that would be my my real ideal situation it's just just to be able to charge

00:42:34 ◼   ► everything from the same stuff? Yeah the USB you know I the nice thing is that

00:42:44 ◼   ► you can bring one you can bring one charger part and then a couple of USB

00:42:49 ◼   ► cables and I think you can get most of it taken care of I mean it depends I've

00:42:52 ◼   ► your um your portable game device probably has some crazy weird charger I

00:42:58 ◼   ► mean for me the Kindle the Kindle iPad iPhone and all of that those are all the

00:43:01 ◼   ► same and then the obviously a laptop needs its own thing so I can I have done

00:43:07 ◼   ► that in the past where I've really minimized it down to one charger to the

00:43:11 ◼   ► wall and then a few cables attached to the USB port on the on the charger block

00:43:16 ◼   ► yeah yes that's that's not bad but like I kind of end up having to take like

00:43:22 ◼   ► three or four different cables just to charge the things I want to take with me

00:43:28 ◼   ► one day one day Jason it will all get better and there'll be more devices and

00:43:32 ◼   ► let's take those when we're having to charge our wearables you know we're all

00:43:38 ◼   ► gonna have a new cable next year when we're charging our Apple watches yes

00:43:44 ◼   ► sure yeah actually I mean that was like the pebble I if I want to bring my pebble

00:43:50 ◼   ► with me I got to bring the pebble charger because it's a and I know why

00:43:55 ◼   ► it's a custom charger it's because it's magnetic and they didn't want to use USB or something

00:43:59 ◼   ► because they wanted it to be water resistant but the fact remains that it's a custom cable.

00:44:05 ◼   ► At least with the Pebble you could maybe put it on charge the night before if you remember

00:44:10 ◼   ► and you'd be okay for the weekend you know but that is not gonna that is not gonna happen

00:44:16 ◼   ► with with the iPhone it's on the Apple watch sorry and the iPhone sure but the Apple watch

00:44:23 ◼   ► it's not gonna work that way which is a shame yeah so shall we take a moment and we'll play

00:44:32 ◼   ► our final song the fans have asked for another song so i mean it's all we can do really is

00:44:41 ◼   ► give them another one and this one is is from our friends over at dash well god damn it's

00:44:47 ◼   ► Dash, where you can easily create real time. Dashboards that show information. There are

00:44:54 ◼   ► dozens of pre-built widgets for services like AppFigures, Google Analytics, GitHub, and

00:45:02 ◼   ► don't forget Twitter. Go to thedash.com. You don't need no credit card. Go to thedash.com.

00:45:11 ◼   ► Play with it because it is fun

00:45:13 ◼   ► Oh god damn it's Dash

00:45:17 ◼   ► You can also show custom data

00:45:20 ◼   ► It's got a great API to share from Dropbox or the web

00:45:25 ◼   ► Things like line charts, speedometers, tables or used iframe

00:45:32 ◼   ► The pricing model is a lot like GitHub

00:45:35 ◼   ► All the public dashboards for free

00:45:37 ◼   ► ♫ For 10 bucks a month unlimited private dashboards

00:45:41 ◼   ► ♫ Could be yours

00:45:43 ◼   ► ♫ So go to thedash.com

00:45:45 ◼   ► ♫ They're currently running a promotion

00:45:48 ◼   ► ♫ If you sign up at thedash.com

00:45:51 ◼   ► ♫ Private dashboards you'll be able to get one

00:45:54 ◼   ► ♫ Go to thedash.com

00:45:56 ◼   ► ♫ You don't need no credit card

00:45:59 ◼   ► ♫ Sit go to thedash.com

00:46:01 ◼   ► ♫ And play with it because it is fun ♫

00:46:06 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Dash, go to thedash.com and you sign up there, we love those guys

00:46:11 ◼   ► and I like that song a lot and I'm happy that Jonathan Mann made it and the Dash guys let

00:46:17 ◼   ► us use it.

00:46:18 ◼   ► Yeah, originally he did it and it was go to dash.com and it was a song about laundry detergent

00:46:23 ◼   ► but he changed it so we all dodged a bullet there.

00:46:29 ◼   ► It's a topic that you put in a document that I'm interested in because I think about these

00:46:34 ◼   ► things a lot, especially when I hear people talking about them, and maybe this is bad

00:46:38 ◼   ► for me to say, but security, so like securing your devices and passwords and such.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Are you a two-factor authentication person?

00:46:48 ◼   ► I am.

00:46:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:46:50 ◼   ► So what do you use for that and why do you do it?

00:46:54 ◼   ► So I use Google Authenticator on my iPhone, and I have it turned on for my Google account

00:47:03 ◼   ► end for my Dropbox account and would enable it for others.

00:47:07 ◼   ► I'm also using Apple's two factor which is different because it's Apple and they're sending

00:47:14 ◼   ► messages in various places but I do it basically I've decided that I'll turn it on for anything

00:47:19 ◼   ► that will let me turn it on because it means that my password isn't the only point of failure

00:47:24 ◼   ► and it doesn't mean that I'm not safe from social engineering although I think that a

00:47:31 ◼   ► lot of companies are getting better at realizing that one of the ways that people hack people's

00:47:37 ◼   ► accounts is by posing as them on the phone and begging for a reset and Matt Honan exposed

00:47:44 ◼   ► that when he got hacked.

00:47:46 ◼   ► So yeah, I just turn it on.

00:47:49 ◼   ► It's kind of a pain because every so often I have to make sure that my phone is with

00:47:52 ◼   ► me or I have to go get my phone and bring it back so I can put in a six digit password.

00:47:57 ◼   ► But I do it because I like the fact that it doesn't, you know, you don't, if you know

00:48:01 ◼   ► my password you can't get into that account.

00:48:03 ◼   ► You still need to add an authentication code.

00:48:10 ◼   ► And then also by doing that it allows you to generate unique app passwords which means

00:48:14 ◼   ► that if those passwords are breached not only can you deauthorize them at will, but if they're

00:48:20 ◼   ► breached they only have access to sort of the one set of things.

00:48:23 ◼   ► So I wouldn't say that I've got some super crazy security regime at all, but I try to

00:48:30 ◼   ► take advantage of whatever security features are offered to me, even if it's a little bit

00:48:37 ◼   ► less convenient.

00:48:40 ◼   ► So what kind of services allow for two-factor authentication that you use?

00:48:50 ◼   ► What kind of services?

00:48:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, because I'm sure not everyone

00:48:54 ◼   ► allows you to use Two-Factor, right?

00:48:56 ◼   ► - Well, like I said, the only ones that I'm really using

00:48:59 ◼   ► that I'm aware of are Apple, Google, and Dropbox.

00:49:04 ◼   ► And those are the ones that I'm using.

00:49:08 ◼   ► So my Google account is secured with Two-Factor,

00:49:11 ◼   ► my Dropbox account is secured with Two-Factor,

00:49:13 ◼   ► and then Apple's got their own crazy Two-Factor

00:49:16 ◼   ► where they're sending the messages direct to your device

00:49:18 ◼   ► instead of having you look it up on an app.

00:49:20 ◼   ► I use the authentication app.

00:49:22 ◼   ► And I've heard a lot of people say that they love Offy,

00:49:24 ◼   ► which is a different authentication app

00:49:26 ◼   ► and Dan Morin loves it.

00:49:28 ◼   ► I've got it and I just, you know,

00:49:30 ◼   ► it's one of those things where Google Authenticator

00:49:32 ◼   ► works fine for me and the process of deauthenticating

00:49:37 ◼   ► and reauthenticating a device is painful enough

00:49:40 ◼   ► that I just haven't gotten around to trying it.

00:49:43 ◼   ► That's a barrier and if I don't like it,

00:49:45 ◼   ► then I have to deauthenticate and reauthenticate again.

00:49:48 ◼   ► But anyway, it's a lot less convenient,

00:49:51 ◼   ► but at the same time it gives me at least a little bit more

00:49:53 ◼   ► of a feeling of security in that I've got that second stage,

00:49:56 ◼   ► whether that's, as with most security things,

00:49:58 ◼   ► whether that's real or whether that's just a feeling

00:50:03 ◼   ► that isn't connected to reality.

00:50:05 ◼   ► I'd like to think that it is,

00:50:06 ◼   ► but they offer it so I decided I would do it.

00:50:10 ◼   ► - So I'm getting a lot better than I used to be

00:50:13 ◼   ► using one password and generating

00:50:17 ◼   ► crazy long 12 digit passwords, you know, and using those as opposed to just

00:50:22 ◼   ► things I could remember or like there was a time where I used the same password

00:50:28 ◼   ► for everything, you know? And I have wised up to that and I'm using

00:50:33 ◼   ► that kind of stuff but I've not really got into two-factor because kind of

00:50:36 ◼   ► everybody that I know that does use it has many complaints about it for as much

00:50:41 ◼   ► as it is secure. It seems like I know a lot of people that have had real

00:50:45 ◼   ► struggles with with the Apple one and it locking them out and stuff like that and

00:50:49 ◼   ► not being able to use their iCloud services and I don't know if I want to

00:50:52 ◼   ► get into to that level of mess right but you know it's one of those things where

00:50:58 ◼   ► it's like but but should I you know like what what what's gonna happen to me and

00:51:03 ◼   ► and and I wonder about these sorts of things because I know that identity

00:51:07 ◼   ► theft is obviously a problem but a lot of the time I think to myself what are

00:51:13 ◼   ► people are actually gonna get.

00:51:15 ◼   ► And I wonder how, I mean I know that there's so much data,

00:51:20 ◼   ► you know, like somebody gets into my email,

00:51:22 ◼   ► or they can then start to break their way into

00:51:25 ◼   ► who knows what, but I think to myself,

00:51:27 ◼   ► what am I actually gonna be losing here?

00:51:30 ◼   ► And I wonder if it's a generational thing

00:51:32 ◼   ► that makes me feel that way, like it's all kind of just,

00:51:35 ◼   ► it's all just digital stuff and people can take it

00:51:37 ◼   ► and then I can kind of just deal with it and get it back

00:51:39 ◼   ► or block them out or whatever.

00:51:41 ◼   ► Like what's gonna happen to me?

00:51:43 ◼   ► Yeah, it's, you know, security. I mean, if Matt Honan's story has told us anything, it

00:51:50 ◼   ► is that, you know, nothing is really secure. I mean, everything is, this, I mean, this

00:51:57 ◼   ► is the frightening thing, it's like passwords aren't very good, there aren't really any

00:52:00 ◼   ► good alternatives. In many cases, the companies involved can reset your stuff if they want

00:52:08 ◼   ► to and that's terrifying because that means that even if you do everything right on your

00:52:13 ◼   ► end if somebody is charming and calls and begs to be led back into their account they

00:52:22 ◼   ► may be able to gain access and there's the whole issue now where we have like chains

00:52:26 ◼   ► of accounts where like with Matt Honan one week security area where they could reset

00:52:32 ◼   ► a password and revealed you know was revealed in another like backup email address that

00:52:38 ◼   ► was shown and they could figure that one out and it just became this chain where they were

00:52:41 ◼   ► able to get into all sorts of different accounts by having access to a couple of things and

00:52:46 ◼   ► so that's terrifying and again I you know I try to do what what is right so I turn on

00:52:52 ◼   ► two factor because it's an additional layer it means that if somebody were to find out

00:52:56 ◼   ► my or figure out my password they would still need that second factor and they wouldn't

00:53:00 ◼   ► have it and that makes it that much more secure I do use one password to generate completely

00:53:04 ◼   ► random ugly passwords. I still have low security passwords that I use on some

00:53:10 ◼   ► sites but those are the low security passwords for sites that I don't care

00:53:15 ◼   ► essentially if people get into them because there's nothing of value

00:53:19 ◼   ► there but anytime I do a new password now I just have it be the

00:53:24 ◼   ► the randomly generated one password password and I store it away that way

00:53:28 ◼   ► and again that's less convenient because I don't know those passwords and I have

00:53:32 ◼   ► to open up one password and I have to copy and paste but I think that all that us sort

00:53:38 ◼   ► of regular people can do is try to follow these suggested rules. It's a little bit like

00:53:45 ◼   ► eating your vegetables. Just say like randomly generated strong passwords inside something

00:53:50 ◼   ► like 1Password is better than having the same password everywhere and better than having

00:53:55 ◼   ► a password that's super simple. You know, you're protecting your money if you're doing

00:54:03 ◼   ► online banking you're protecting your money if you've got places that are storing your

00:54:08 ◼   ► credit cards you've got money involved there. There's the privacy like if you've got personal

00:54:15 ◼   ► conversations about things that you prefer remain private it's one other risk that you've

00:54:21 ◼   ► got you could also argue that maybe you should be aware in general that anything

00:54:26 ◼   ► that's got a paper trail like that you might want to not have those

00:54:29 ◼   ► conversations there and that's really inconvenient but again these are all the

00:54:33 ◼   ► things that everybody just needs to be aware that of these issues and I think a

00:54:38 ◼   ► lot of times what happens is people just aren't aware of them and you know it's

00:54:41 ◼   ► not their it's not their fault that they have personal information in the cloud

00:54:45 ◼   ► somewhere but you know trying to be safer about it is is better and people

00:54:51 ◼   ► listening to this show are more more technically oriented than your average

00:54:56 ◼   ► person and I think it's on all of us to be aware of what these these issues are

00:55:01 ◼   ► and also tell our less technically savvy people that you should you know you

00:55:05 ◼   ► should have something like one password for example or another password manager

00:55:09 ◼   ► that will remember that stuff for you because sometimes that's the hurdle as

00:55:13 ◼   ► well I just I can't remember these passwords and you know don't write it

00:55:18 ◼   ► down on a post-it note and stick it to your refrigerator. Yeah I mean that's all

00:55:23 ◼   ► you know those password books you know you don't want to use one of those. Oh yeah yeah well

00:55:31 ◼   ► Sony apparently had just word files and excel files on a server somewhere with

00:55:35 ◼   ► all the passwords on it. Yeah I don't I don't understand how something like that

00:55:39 ◼   ► can happen in such big companies I mean I know that things can be I don't know I

00:55:46 ◼   ► know that things can kind of get a bit wonky you know and there might be some

00:55:51 ◼   ► sort of like old system somewhere you know but I just I don't get how it

00:55:56 ◼   ► becomes how it gets to that point. Well and a lot of a lot of services are

00:56:00 ◼   ► bottom-up where there's services people have signed up for I mean I know we had

00:56:04 ◼   ► this at IDG where you know you've got Twitter accounts that are shared and how

00:56:08 ◼   ► do you manage who's got access to those Twitter accounts?

00:56:13 ◼   ► And we had a Google Doc with the passwords in it.

00:56:18 ◼   ► Because on one level it's like what do you do?

00:56:21 ◼   ► We had people all over the country, you don't really want it to be one person who has all

00:56:26 ◼   ► the passwords because what happens if something happens to that person?

00:56:30 ◼   ► So I understand why these sorts of things happen.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Well we'll just create a master list of passwords and it's on a server that only these people

00:56:35 ◼   ► have access to so it should be safe but then you know somebody gets access to

00:56:40 ◼   ► one of those counts and there we go

00:56:42 ◼   ► it's a it's yeah it's scary I mean I think most people won't ever have to

00:56:46 ◼   ► deal with it

00:56:47 ◼   ► fortunately I think but you know I think it's good for all of us to try and

00:56:53 ◼   ► practice what we can to make it to make it that much safer for for us and and

00:56:59 ◼   ► for like I said our friends and family who may be not are not as as a technically

00:57:05 ◼   ► savvy as we are. So Tommy you have to be thinking about it you know as you're

00:57:10 ◼   ► going home and you can help people out? Yeah I mean honestly the the idea of

00:57:16 ◼   ► just telling one of your you know one of your loved ones that they're that if

00:57:20 ◼   ► they're interested in you know if they're frustrated by passwords or they

00:57:23 ◼   ► can't remember their passwords or whatever that there are software out

00:57:26 ◼   ► there that they can use to do that that that's a good step just in that because

00:57:31 ◼   ► and that's not just even from a security standpoint I mean in many cases now for

00:57:35 ◼   ► security reasons, passwords, stronger passwords are mandated, you know Apple

00:57:39 ◼   ► certainly does that now and when that's the case then it just frustrates a lot

00:57:43 ◼   ► of people even more. I see this in my family where now they, oh now I need a

00:57:46 ◼   ► capital letter and a number in my password and you know and then they

00:57:50 ◼   ► can't remember it because it gets complicated. It's like oh yeah does that

00:57:52 ◼   ► have a capital or not? Is there a space? Is there an exclamation point? Is there a

00:57:55 ◼   ► dash? What's going on? And so from a usability standpoint saying why don't

00:58:00 ◼   ► you use a little program to store your passwords in and then you only have one

00:58:04 ◼   ► password to remember, I mean great name by the way, one password, but that idea, there

00:58:09 ◼   ► are other password managers out there too, I use one password so I talk about it in that

00:58:14 ◼   ► context, but you know that's not just a security feature, it's a productivity feature, you're

00:58:19 ◼   ► not, you don't need to remember your passwords and you don't need to write them down in a

00:58:24 ◼   ► book that you might lose, I mean it might be stolen but you might just lose it, but

00:58:28 ◼   ► you could put it on all your devices behind a single password that you remember that you

00:58:32 ◼   ► don't use anywhere else that's that's a productivity that's not just security.

00:58:36 ◼   ► Security.

00:58:40 ◼   ► Oh security. It's it's terrifying and if you follow anybody on on on like Twitter

00:58:46 ◼   ► or something who's a security expert you read some of these articles it really is

00:58:49 ◼   ► kind of kind of scary I mean we saw this with the Sony hack and and we've seen it

00:58:55 ◼   ► before with things you know including things as I mean on one level ridiculous

00:59:00 ◼   ► is the Sony hack and on another level as serious as the Stuxnet situation with

00:59:05 ◼   ► the centrifuges in Iran, the cyber security, it's a crazy,

00:59:13 ◼   ► complicated, and scary topic because I really believe the the right way to

00:59:18 ◼   ► approach all of it is to believe is to accept that a lot of our security is

00:59:25 ◼   ► is still through obscurity.

00:59:27 ◼   ► If somebody wanted to target you and your information,

00:59:30 ◼   ► they could do it.

00:59:32 ◼   ► And that's terrifying too.

00:59:34 ◼   ► And like I said, I think all you can do

00:59:36 ◼   ► as a regular person walking around on the internet

00:59:39 ◼   ► is try to follow some best practices

00:59:40 ◼   ► and hope everything's gonna be okay.

00:59:42 ◼   ► And that's not a great, you know,

00:59:44 ◼   ► just kind of whistling through the dark

00:59:46 ◼   ► and crossing your fingers is not the greatest approach

00:59:50 ◼   ► to something like this.

00:59:51 ◼   ► But I feel like on some levels that's all we can do

00:59:53 ◼   ► because some of it is kind of out of our hands.

00:59:55 ◼   ► It's about these big players,

00:59:57 ◼   ► and it's about just the good luck or bad luck

01:00:00 ◼   ► of being involved in something.

01:00:01 ◼   ► I will say one of the things that I really believe in

01:00:03 ◼   ► is most websites will ask

01:00:06 ◼   ► to store your credit card information,

01:00:08 ◼   ► and just say no, unless it's a site you use all the time.

01:00:10 ◼   ► Like I think I've got my credit card stored at

01:00:12 ◼   ► like a couple of sites,

01:00:15 ◼   ► but there are all these random sites

01:00:16 ◼   ► where you buy two things one time and then never again,

01:00:19 ◼   ► and they wanna store your credit card,

01:00:20 ◼   ► and it's like you know that that's where the credit card breaches happen is at

01:00:24 ◼   ► some random site and you said yes store my credit card for later

01:00:27 ◼   ► and uh... then they get your credit card number and uh... so you know it's it's

01:00:32 ◼   ► you try a little stuff like that of well i'm not gonna store so much i'm gonna

01:00:35 ◼   ► change my passwords and all that and still are you totally secure in lockdown

01:00:38 ◼   ► no

01:00:39 ◼   ► you know maybe you decreased your chances a little bit

01:00:42 ◼   ► uh... men you know

01:00:43 ◼   ► i don't like that feeling but i feel like that's where we are with internet

01:00:46 ◼   ► security now

01:00:49 ◼   ► So Jason, next week on the show we want to do our kind of best of the year and we're

01:01:00 ◼   ► going to call it the Upgradies.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Sure.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Why not?

01:01:04 ◼   ► Why not?

01:01:05 ◼   ► That's not a democracy.

01:01:06 ◼   ► Nope, that's what we're calling it.

01:01:07 ◼   ► That's what it's called.

01:01:08 ◼   ► No one's telling me different.

01:01:09 ◼   ► So we're going to do the Upgradies, the Upgrady Awards for 2014.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Now what I would really like is for our upgradersians to suggest some topics for what they would

01:01:25 ◼   ► like us to award upgradies to.

01:01:27 ◼   ► So you may want the upgradey for the best app, you may want the upgradey for the best

01:01:33 ◼   ► security management software.

01:01:36 ◼   ► Or you may want to be incredibly specific like listener Nick who said, "What was the

01:01:41 ◼   ► most hyped app that was a disappointment and least hyped app that you loved.

01:01:45 ◼   ► It's like, wow, that's complicated.

01:01:47 ◼   ► Simpler than that is better.

01:01:49 ◼   ► But yeah, we will take your suggestions for what you would like us to talk about.

01:01:55 ◼   ► It's the end of the year.

01:01:56 ◼   ► We're all contractually obligated to do best and worst.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And why not do it in a glitzy awards ceremony?

01:02:02 ◼   ► Mmm, why not?

01:02:04 ◼   ► I will be wearing a tuxedo next week.

01:02:06 ◼   ► All right, I look forward to that.

01:02:08 ◼   ► for that. So if you want to let us know, use the hashtag #AskUpgrade, would be

01:02:15 ◼   ► great, or you can tweet it @Asim, @imike, and @imyke, and Jason is @jsnell,

01:02:20 ◼   ► J-S-N-E-L-L, but the hashtag #AskUpgrade is good because it puts it automatically in

01:02:24 ◼   ► the document and we can pick those out. Yep. So next week will be the inaugural

01:02:29 ◼   ► upgradeies, which I'm very excited about. I even have some upgradey award artwork

01:02:37 ◼   ► being created. Oh yes, it looks delightful. Yes, for this very specific purpose. So we

01:02:44 ◼   ► can award people with their upgradey badges whether they want them or not.

01:02:50 ◼   ► They can receive them so I'm very excited about that. But before then I

01:02:55 ◼   ► would like to wish everybody a happy holidays, Merry Christmas, depending on

01:02:59 ◼   ► however you celebrate. I hope that you have a very nice holiday week, Jason, and

01:03:05 ◼   ► and to you and your family.

01:03:07 ◼   ► And if you'd like to catch the show notes again for this week,

01:03:10 ◼   ► you want to go to relay.fm/upgrades/15.

01:03:14 ◼   ► Thanks again to our sponsors for this week's episode,

01:03:17 ◼   ► Igloo, MailRoute, and Dash,

01:03:20 ◼   ► and we'll be back next time.

01:03:22 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye, Jason.

01:03:24 ◼   ► Thank you, friends, and upgrade-ians.

01:03:29 ◼   ► Goodbye.

01:03:31 ◼   ► Goodbye.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Goodbye!

01:03:35 ◼   ► Goodbye!

01:03:37 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:03:39 ◼   ► [ Music ]

01:03:42 ◼   ► [music fades out]

01:03:44 ◼   ► [ Silence ]