The Accidental Tech Podcast

203: Screaming At Us From The Future

 

  that's one of the amazing things about [TS]

  the making of empire strikes back book [TS]

  the digital version has a bunch of audio [TS]

  clips of like people talking about [TS]

  something like I'm glad somebody record [TS]

  these things because here they are [TS]

  having actual conversations about making [TS]

  this movie dinner at the people have [TS]

  recollections that i talked to them [TS]

  about this [TS]

  guess what we've got audio to you know [TS]

  15 minutes of audio about this one thing [TS]

  and it's great to hear even though the [TS]

  quality is terrible because it was the [TS]

  eighties it's true many things ladies [TS]

  not Empire Strikes Back that was in the [TS]

  ease and it was great for me in kc ya so [TS]

  young i feel like i have spoken to Marco [TS]

  and John both extremely recently and [TS]

  also not in weeks because we saw each [TS]

  other three days ago [TS]

  alright some with that and and yet at [TS]

  the same time we haven't we haven't had [TS]

  we haven't had the opportunity to truly [TS]

  and truly nerd out for a couple weeks [TS]

  now and we're trying to talk about [TS]

  computer stuff we're all together like [TS]

  everyone else did not want to hear and [TS]

  everything it was there just like a [TS]

  rolling their eyes and trying to change [TS]

  the subject to anything else [TS]

  yeah they effectively said with body [TS]

  language save it for the show and also [TS]

  happy birthday John siracusa a little [TS]

  bit late at this point it is four days [TS]

  ago now but a happy birthday you are the [TS]

  answer to what is what is the actual [TS]

  phrasing the answer to life the universe [TS]

  and everything [TS]

  yeah pretty much fair enough right I do [TS]

  we have any pre-show banter we just want [TS]

  to go straight to follow and that was [TS]

  the pre-show banter [TS]

  fair enough alright let's talk about the [TS]

  naked robotic macbook pro mr. siracusa [TS]

  best thing ever [TS]

  the book is said with not an ounce of [TS]

  sarcasm i think it is I think it's [TS]

  pretty neat at this if someone had [TS]

  posted this as a joke a couple weeks ago [TS]

  I think we all would have had a good [TS]

  laugh about it [TS]

  yep the first time i saw this i thought [TS]

  it was a joke and I was like it some [TS]

  people first like I guess somebody has a [TS]

  bad joke timing [TS]

  yeah but you know it is apparently a [TS]

  real thing [TS]

  this is from owc I friends and other you [TS]

  see other world computing this is a [TS]

  product could you can't buy it right [TS]

  they've just sort of correct announced [TS]

  it and more details to follow [TS]

  if you take your new slim for USB port a [TS]

  macbook pro that we talked about at [TS]

  length on the show and you sit on top of [TS]

  an aluminum rectangle that's the exact [TS]

  size and shape has the bottom of the [TS]

  macbook pro making your very slim 2016 / [TS]

  2017 model macbook pro the thickness of [TS]

  2012 macbook pro and in the process it [TS]

  gives you a bunch of extra ports on the [TS]

  side you get USB type a ports you get [TS]

  ethernet you get an SD card slot you get [TS]

  another USBC far as i can tell you don't [TS]

  get any additional battery it does have [TS]

  it does clean also four terabytes of [TS]

  internal storage of some type and [TS]

  additional things to come like they [TS]

  haven't haven't revealed all the things [TS]

  it's going to do so right away I have [TS]

  some technical questions about this [TS]

  oh yes I first how does it work because [TS]

  I expected it to plug into the USB sea [TS]

  ports on the side because you know you [TS]

  can do that like the Thunderbolts last [TS]

  year's pc forth if you you can plug for [TS]

  example a thunderbolt three dock into [TS]

  there and on that document have an SD [TS]

  card port and USB ports and storage and [TS]

  you know you can you can do all that we [TS]

  know you can do it but you have to plug [TS]

  into one of those ports and the pictures [TS]

  they have show both sides of this thing [TS]

  with all four of the Thunderbolt three [TS]

  ports on the side of this macbook pro [TS]

  completely open so that's mysterious [TS]

  no I don't think it's mysterious at all [TS]

  I I mean I understand what you're saying [TS]

  but I will bet you a gazillion dollars [TS]

  that if you're looking at the images of [TS]

  the two sides so they're showing the [TS]

  right-hand side of it but it's on the [TS]

  left-hand side of the image and then the [TS]

  left-hand side on the right-hand side of [TS]

  the image so the the right side of the [TS]

  dock where the SD card is there's a USB [TS]

  seaport directly under one of the four [TS]

  onboard USB seaports it's hard to paint [TS]

  a word picture about this but anyway I [TS]

  bet you anything work they're gonna have [TS]

  one of those little stubby yeah USBC [TS]

  cables right there it'll be like the [TS]

  room you remember the daughter the [TS]

  daughter board video cards from PCs way [TS]

  back in the day he would go you would go [TS]

  like VG [TS]

  from your 2d car doesn't remember yeah [TS]

  you go from the PGA from your 2d card [TS]

  your 3d card and then vga from your 3d [TS]

  card out to your monitor and then you [TS]

  have these little like setup vga cables [TS]

  it was barbaric but i'm going to make it [TS]

  even all the reference back in the mac [TS]

  days when they had scuzzy as their [TS]

  external connector for hard drives and [TS]

  such and you would buy hard drives that [TS]

  fit exactly underneath the classic Mac [TS]

  shape so you could stack them and they [TS]

  would be exactly the size of the the [TS]

  base of like a mac plus r5 to offer [TS]

  whatever I and since you would stack [TS]

  them each one would be a different hard [TS]

  drive and you need to daisy chain them [TS]

  together in typical see passion one [TS]

  would have a terminator then you go for [TS]

  12 they made c-shaped brackets that were [TS]

  not cables at all of our exact brackets [TS]

  you know it's a single manufacturer with [TS]

  this album like jasmine or whatever and [TS]

  they would plug into the back and [TS]

  connect one drive to the one right above [TS]

  it exactly matching these gigantic 15 [TS]

  scuzzy connectors so not a cable at all [TS]

  but a very stiff bracket thing i can [TS]

  imagine that as well but they don't show [TS]

  it in the pictures [TS]

  correction that is fair well and also [TS]

  these pictures should be taken with a [TS]

  huge array of salt because they have [TS]

  even stated these are rendering these [TS]

  are not the final product in fact when I [TS]

  first looked at this page maybe you know [TS]

  an hour before that macrumors articles [TS]

  posted these exact pictures in this [TS]

  exact spot on on the official [TS]

  ohdeedoh.com / DC on that page these [TS]

  exact pictures the two sides were blank [TS]

  except for one that this the one single [TS]

  USBC import all like the LA and the [TS]

  carburetor was there but all the USBA [TS]

  and ethernet port you see right there [TS]

  were not there like 12 hours ago so i [TS]

  really like this is a work in progress [TS]

  like I learn more from the macrumors [TS]

  post about it than I did from their page [TS]

  so clearly this is still in the very [TS]

  early phases they said it will be [TS]

  available in 2017 but i don't think they [TS]

  got more specific than that [TS]

  nor had they listed price or anything [TS]

  but I mean it's basically yeah it's a [TS]

  docking station that happens to be the [TS]

  same shape as the macbook pro so you can [TS]

  sit on top of it but when i first saw [TS]

  the these pictures without seeing macros [TS]

  article when I first saw the pictures [TS]

  and it got almost no information i [TS]

  assumed that what they were doing was [TS]

  basically offering a service where you [TS]

  can send you [TS]

  put to them and they would like unscrew [TS]

  the bottom of it yeah [TS]

  places like and pretend you know [TS]

  semi-permanently attach this thing and [TS]

  if they were doing that then they could [TS]

  maybe do something like give a bigger [TS]

  battery and you know use internal [TS]

  whatever kind of internal connections [TS]

  that are present if any i honestly would [TS]

  be surprised if there are many if any [TS]

  but yeah i was thinking where they [TS]

  connected internally but you can do a [TS]

  bigger battery with external to please [TS]

  remember that USBC port is also the [TS]

  charging port works share this smart the [TS]

  smartphone you know iphone case or [TS]

  whatever examiner is but anyway that [TS]

  isn't what this is as far as we can tell [TS]

  from the very little information we have [TS]

  but either way let's so basically it [TS]

  sounds like it it almost certainly [TS]

  doesn't offer any additional battery [TS]

  power that's the only real reason I [TS]

  would see for for wanting to have this [TS]

  tremendous additional bulk added [TS]

  permanently to your macbook or worried [TS]

  about ya we don't know because they sell [TS]

  more stuff is coming and if you look at [TS]

  the stuff that's in there obviously [TS]

  there has to be more because the stuff [TS]

  they have in their would not take up all [TS]

  that space so i guess a good to be [TS]

  filled air but if you're gonna buy [TS]

  batteries like there's not room making [TS]

  an optical drive nice actually [TS]

  absolutely think we're not exactly what [TS]

  a really good keyboard you can reach now [TS]

  so I you know it will see when this [TS]

  thing actually provides a little more [TS]

  information and when it actually [TS]

  launches but i don't think the market [TS]

  for this is going to be very big [TS]

  I I certainly won't use it [TS]

  no way you can make me use that because [TS]

  the fact is that the the macbook pro as [TS]

  it is is almost pretty good and this [TS]

  pushes it so far in the other direction [TS]

  that it's like ok this like you turn [TS]

  something that's almost pretty good but [TS]

  has mediocre battery life and a bad [TS]

  keyboard into something that is still [TS]

  having mediocre better life and pad kee [TS]

  forward that is just like bigger and [TS]

  heavier to add a what is really a very [TS]

  small handful of of capabilities so far [TS]

  I don't see why people would want this [TS]

  honestly but somebody might I guess I [TS]

  well remember market that you cannot [TS]

  possibly do any kind of work on a [TS]

  macbook pro unless you have asked unless [TS]

  you have an SD card slot so if you [TS]

  wanted to do any kind of work [TS]

  the macbook pro you must have this doc [TS]

  otherwise it's impossible but honestly [TS]

  so this so it in the in the massive span [TS]

  of time since we've last spoken of this [TS]

  podcast I i did you know we traveled [TS]

  upstate 24 / prepare for parent [TS]

  Christmas stuff and I have my laptop [TS]

  there and there was one point in which I [TS]

  had I had brought some every year making [TS]

  Christmas video and former from the [TS]

  previous Christmases photos and and [TS]

  time-lapse tip is all the work she gets [TS]

  all the credit anyway I I bring with me [TS]

  on my laptop copies of all the video so [TS]

  that way when we get there after showing [TS]

  everybody we can give everybody their [TS]

  own copy on the thumb drives that don't [TS]

  go into your computer [TS]

  yeah so one of the members has an ipad [TS]

  one has a laptop and one has a thumb [TS]

  drive and so this is ok that's like you [TS]

  put the wolf on the boat needs like it's [TS]

  this crazy things that happened we put [TS]

  the water on with the chicken rice like [TS]

  how do we get how do we get these files [TS]

  to these different things right [TS]

  I'm sitting there on the couch with my [TS]

  new macbook and first my father-in-law [TS]

  brings down the the Lightning card [TS]

  reader adapter with an SD card in it [TS]

  that use iPads you put on here I like [TS]

  the lighting and look at the SD card [TS]

  like nope [TS]

  and then like my brother and then like [TS]

  you know that and I get handed this like [TS]

  USB key like this USB thumb drive thing [TS]

  no I guess I get a dongle for that Lee [TS]

  upstairs get the dongle is like and it [TS]

  wasn't it wasn't I didn't own the dongle [TS]

  and it wasn't that I didn't even have [TS]

  the dongle like technically with me on [TS]

  the trip but it was upstairs and I was [TS]

  downstairs on a soft capture it was [TS]

  Christmas there there's just gonna be a [TS]

  so many of these times with these new [TS]

  macbook pros we're like even if it's a [TS]

  minor inconvenience it still makes you [TS]

  regret the limitations of this computer [TS]

  in use in practice I i bet more often [TS]

  than apple might have might have [TS]

  estimated by whatever data a reason to [TS]

  make this decision to to admit all the [TS]

  useful stuff from this computer and it [TS]

  there there are so many things about [TS]

  that are nice like it like every you [TS]

  know every year we go to say we go to [TS]

  the same place my in-laws place and and [TS]

  every year I i have to plug in my laptop [TS]

  and every year I i had this weird layout [TS]

  where to reach the left side of where [TS]

  the charging port was the magsafe was [TS]

  have to kind of lean laptop in a strange [TS]

  way overnight when it's charging and [TS]

  this year I could use the other side [TS]

  which was really helpful and there's [TS]

  going to be time but that were it's nice [TS]

  to have charger in your side like that [TS]

  would be great right so you know it [TS]

  isn't all bad and it was also really [TS]

  nice to have this thing be lighter as I [TS]

  was carrying it around the house and you [TS]

  know doing you know basic stuff i gave [TS]

  it was nice having it lighter so I [TS]

  appreciate those things I appreciate [TS]

  some of the progress boy had not having [TS]

  not having the SD card reader and you [TS]

  and at least one USB a port has already [TS]

  bitten me like it more than once in [TS]

  these like little tiny like you know [TS]

  razor blade cut ways i just i just it [TS]

  doesn't leave me with a good agent about [TS]

  this laptop overall so I think there's a [TS]

  this product / turns out to be in the [TS]

  market reveal some interesting things [TS]

  we've talked about before but this is [TS]

  like a concrete version of it [TS]

  the first is this is an extreme case of [TS]

  negative robotic or thing applies to the [TS]

  mac which we talked about before the [TS]

  idea that if you just provide the core [TS]

  amount of functionality and let people [TS]

  add stuff on top of that they might want [TS]

  so with the iphone it's like we give you [TS]

  the skinny little metal thing that you [TS]

  want and if you want extra battery or [TS]

  you want more protection or you know you [TS]

  want a place to put your credit cards [TS]

  you want a rubbery outside or whatever [TS]

  it is that you want to do to it [TS]

  everyone else can bring to it whatever [TS]

  they want you want to be different color [TS]

  a different texture whatever you can put [TS]

  that on [TS]

  but by making the smallest thing [TS]

  possible with the people who want a [TS]

  really small thing have a really small [TS]

  thing that people want something [TS]

  different every one can apply visit we [TS]

  made a choice and add the big battery [TS]

  that people want the skinny ones can [TS]

  happen so on and so forth so this thing [TS]

  to make a robotic macbook pro if you [TS]

  want a bunch of ports you can slap it on [TS]

  the end and we're at all the past the [TS]

  all the past time to talk about this is [TS]

  like yeah but if you add on the outside [TS]

  because you have to have you know phone [TS]

  motherboard battery case you know inner [TS]

  case battery outer case like the the [TS]

  extra layering requiring them both to be [TS]

  products in and of themselves the case [TS]

  is a product and the phone is a product [TS]

  that they have their own walls and the [TS]

  combination of all the walls is your [TS]

  total thickness it makes them bigger [TS]

  than if you said if you just took that [TS]

  amount [TS]

  a battery that's in this battery case [TS]

  and put it inside the phone it wouldn't [TS]

  be a stick so here we have a great [TS]

  example that these ports that they're [TS]

  adding if Apple had put these inside the [TS]

  macbook pro it would be thicker but it [TS]

  would not be this thing I mean you look [TS]

  at the ethernet port is stacked up with [TS]

  the USBC port above it like because they [TS]

  can't they can't add you know they can't [TS]

  violate the integrity of the case so [TS]

  you've got the entire flat side [TS]

  thickness of the case and then what they [TS]

  have left to put their ports on is [TS]

  anything they can put below that they [TS]

  can't combine them so this does show the [TS]

  you know very graphic illustration of [TS]

  the highlight of the naked robotic or [TS]

  strategies that if you do add stuff it [TS]

  will always necessarily be bigger than [TS]

  it was built in and the second thing I [TS]

  think is that I don't know if this was [TS]

  just someone making estimation or if [TS]

  they say it in the copy as a real thing [TS]

  but i believe that they're saying this [TS]

  makes your 2016 / 20 17 macbook pro the [TS]

  same thickness as the 2012 model though [TS]

  we all look at this it looks like that [TS]

  that comic illustration of the powerbook [TS]

  g5 together that oh yes photoshop it [TS]

  looks like it's just comically thick [TS]

  like it's like the size of a dictionary [TS]

  or phone book I don't even know what [TS]

  those are [TS]

  it's a really thick book looks it looks [TS]

  huge and yet this was the thickness of a [TS]

  product that apple sold not too long ago [TS]

  2012 mac pro the people still haven't [TS]

  like and often they say I'm sticking [TS]

  with my 2012 macbook pro because it's [TS]

  got all the parts i wanted whatever this [TS]

  I think illustrates what I've always [TS]

  talked about and that you know that a [TS]

  hypocritical posta long ago about people [TS]

  complaining that the imac was getting [TS]

  too skinny when they took away the [TS]

  optical drive made it super skinny it's [TS]

  like who the hell needs a super-skinny [TS]

  imac what's the point and I i [TS]

  transferred iphone to say like you have [TS]

  to go thinner year after year because [TS]

  even though from year-to-year the the [TS]

  sacrifice doesn't make that much of a [TS]

  difference if they go what so it's a few [TS]

  millimeters sticker multiply that by [TS]

  year after year after year and you'll [TS]

  find yourself far from where you started [TS]

  so in 2012 then shaving no millimeter [TS]

  off 2013 another millimeter often 2014 [TS]

  another note it seems like what's the [TS]

  point you're just making my thing [TS]

  dinner in a way that i can even detect [TS]

  and I'm not getting any gains from but [TS]

  like you said Marko you appreciate the [TS]

  the lightness even just compared to your [TS]

  previous model which wasn't that old [TS]

  imagine [TS]

  the the you-know-what you what it would [TS]

  be like if you upgraded from a 2012 [TS]

  model this and here we have a rewind [TS]

  button to go back to what it was like in [TS]

  2012 and now you can't go back now you [TS]

  say no that's too far [TS]

  I can't go back that far i don't care [TS]

  how many points you have it is too big [TS]

  and just too heavy i know now that I [TS]

  know what's possible [TS]

  i I can't go back to that again so there [TS]

  is something to be said for apples [TS]

  relentless pursuit of thinness I still [TS]

  don't think they had any sort of [TS]

  inflection point like my the the three [TS]

  hours go back to is the the the [TS]

  credit-card sized phone that just [TS]

  fluttered to the ground and you don't [TS]

  have to worry about cracking because no [TS]

  one worries about dropping their credit [TS]

  card around cracking it because it's so [TS]

  freaking thin we haven't we haven't got [TS]

  there not even close but this this [TS]

  illustration and our general discussed [TS]

  with it this product and are discussed [TS]

  but i think it is really hammers home [TS]

  that distend this thing even though we [TS]

  complain about it [TS]

  the upsides aren't just academic like [TS]

  once you become accustomed to it being [TS]

  that thin we wanted to be that thin and [TS]

  also maybe have an SD card slot which by [TS]

  the way they could totally do bispo [TS]

  never or add two millimeters that like [TS]

  you know we're willing to bargain a [TS]

  millimeter to but none of us want to add [TS]

  you know half an inch to this thing [TS]

  because we just can't go back to that by [TS]

  the way I can't let this go without [TS]

  pointing out that this ancient thick [TS]

  2012 macbook pro that they're comparing [TS]

  this to was sold in the form of the 101 [TS]

  until two months ago [TS]

  yeah an optical drive funny remind you [TS]

  ya know what I mean you're right like i [TS]

  love the 2012 retina macbook for like [TS]

  the 15-inch retina it's so so nice it's [TS]

  such an overall awesome machine but now [TS]

  that I've had this new one for one month [TS]

  the old one which i still have my closet [TS]

  haven't sold it yet i look at any [TS]

  particular so often and like it feels [TS]

  ancient and it feels like a big heavy [TS]

  awkward lunch tray even though like a [TS]

  month ago I was like this is fine this [TS]

  is getting smaller like it really is all [TS]

  about what you're accustomed to and as [TS]

  soon as you get a customer's new one [TS]

  even though the difference is in in [TS]

  weight and thickness is not tremendous [TS]

  it is a savings that is noticeable and [TS]

  as soon as you start using it's really [TS]

  hard to ever go back and to have it feel [TS]

  normal [TS]

  I mean heck even the keyboard i hate the [TS]

  keyboard on the [TS]

  new one but I use the killer the one [TS]

  like this is kinda mushy like that i'm [TS]

  really i'm completely ruined i still [TS]

  hate the new one keyboard wide but it's [TS]

  like and honestly i think i would hate [TS]

  the new keyboard a lot less if they [TS]

  would give me back to gaps above the [TS]

  left and right arrow keys that has [TS]

  bitten me more than any other thing [TS]

  about this keyboard i got the key [TS]

  switches I still don't like but I've [TS]

  gotten used to escape I have mapped to [TS]

  caps lock and it was a very easy [TS]

  transition the shaping of those arrow [TS]

  keys and not having a little gaps above [TS]

  left and right the way they have been [TS]

  for years that keeps messing me up so [TS]

  much because I can no longer orient [TS]

  myself on the arrow keys by feel [TS]

  reliably and this has it turns out [TS]

  there's something I need quite [TS]

  frequently in use and I didn't realize [TS]

  it until I don't use one of these things [TS]

  for a while but wow that is that is that [TS]

  is a big change but yeah when you go [TS]

  with the old one it's like well I died I [TS]

  don't want even though it is in so many [TS]

  ways better you use the the quote mushy [TS]

  keyboard and you see that the relatively [TS]

  tiny little you know quaint little [TS]

  trackpad on there like wow this is like [TS]

  using a powerbook and by comparison [TS]

  it's the new thing really does feel so [TS]

  much newer and more modern even though [TS]

  in these fairly large ways it is [TS]

  definitely worse [TS]

  this is one of the dangers of using iOS [TS]

  are growing up with iOS and I watch my [TS]

  son he's most of the one is the school [TS]

  assignments like these google docs and [TS]

  your rights school papers and stuff in [TS]

  it which is a pretty good system in [TS]

  terms of putting you know teachers and [TS]

  peers you know comment on and see if it [TS]

  work anyway because he's a child of iOS [TS]

  and a child of the post PCH watching him [TS]

  try to use a word processor on a Mac [TS]

  just makes me want to tear my hair all [TS]

  all of his cursor movement he does with [TS]

  the mouse and I like see these keys on [TS]

  the keyboard with the arrows on them [TS]

  I swear to you they will move the [TS]

  insertion point one character and easier [TS]

  than you finding where the mouse is [TS]

  steering you know this is not good with [TS]

  the mouse to the steering your cursor [TS]

  over moving it over to get as like just [TS]

  use the matter you don't even say like [TS]

  option or command arrows just plain use [TS]

  the arrow keys like it is so much faster [TS]

  and forward delete and just like these [TS]

  amazing technologies that like watching [TS]

  trying to text editing because always [TS]

  ever used to is the terrible text [TS]

  editing on iOS four you have to hold [TS]

  your stupid finger down you get that [TS]

  magnifying glass that also makes montara [TS]

  even after I show America's not like [TS]

  he's like thanks dad that's a revelation [TS]

  I'm so much more efficient he's like no [TS]

  I'll go back to that [TS]

  yeah so painful I don't know kids these [TS]

  days [TS]

  someday the one about arrow keys we [TS]

  respond to this week by betterment go to [TS]

  betterment calm / ATP to learn more and [TS]

  get up to six months of no fees [TS]

  betterment investing made better [TS]

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  these advisors use with clients who have [TS]

  millions of dollars you actually heard [TS]

  about this in the press which has the [TS]

  wall street journal Bloomberg and [TS]

  techcrunch have all covered betterment [TS]

  betterment is an independent automated [TS]

  investing server since the largest [TS]

  independent investment service managing [TS]

  more than 5.5 billion dollars for over a [TS]

  hundred and eighty thousand customers as [TS]

  of this past fall the financial services [TS]

  industry has embraced technology and [TS]

  innovation through the creation of the [TS]

  automated investing services meaning [TS]

  that you keep more of your money with [TS]

  fees that are a fraction of what you [TS]

  would pay for traditional financial [TS]

  services and and their advisers and [TS]

  excess cash that the investment generate [TS]

  is automatically reinvested so every [TS]

  dollar you invest is put to work all the [TS]

  time and your portfolio is automatically [TS]

  rebalanced so check out today go to [TS]

  betterment calm / ATP to learn more go [TS]

  to six months of no fees investing [TS]

  involves risk once again go to [TS]

  betterment calm / ATP that's betterment [TS]

  calm / ATP betterment investing made [TS]

  better [TS]

  on pros leaving the mac apparently [TS]

  somebody has done a little bit of [TS]

  pulling and research about whether or [TS]

  not designers would ever consider motion [TS]

  designer specifically whatever that [TS]

  means would you ever consider switching [TS]

  to a pc yes 42-percent maybe forty [TS]

  percent no eighteen percent that isn't [TS]

  just bit to reinforce the idea was I [TS]

  said last show that like professional [TS]

  users whose job is to do like motion [TS]

  graphics they're not mac users their [TS]

  motion graphic designers right this is [TS]

  what they do they I think this means [TS]

  like motion video [TS]

  you know like basically video effects [TS]

  are transitions during the news or [TS]

  whatever I think that's what this means [TS]

  is what this website is about it's [TS]

  called school of motion calm so it's [TS]

  entirely a professional website for [TS]

  people who do this for a living [TS]

  it's not about Max it's not about [TS]

  computers not about what to use do for a [TS]

  living it's like I want to do this for a [TS]

  living and then they talk about the [TS]

  tools that they use so they want to get [TS]

  the job done [TS]

  they don't necessarily care about a [TS]

  particular something the survey was [TS]

  would you consider switching to be so it [TS]

  shows that in general the bent of the [TS]

  sites like we mostly use macs to do this [TS]

  we talk about programs that are [TS]

  available on the mac to do it like [TS]

  motion i think is still for sale anyway [TS]

  would you consider switching to be c a2 [TS]

  percent are either yes or maybe only [TS]

  eighteen percent say no because the [TS]

  bottom line is it's like well if that's [TS]

  the way I have to go to do motion [TS]

  graphics i will do it because you know [TS]

  they're not going to change your [TS]

  profession biggest the computer they [TS]

  like doesn't let them do they do it [TS]

  they're gonna change platform so you [TS]

  know and again like I said on the last [TS]

  show it doesn't mean that every company [TS]

  tries to make that transition will be [TS]

  successful it's very you know disruptive [TS]

  to have to buy all new hardware and [TS]

  learn new programs and buy new licenses [TS]

  and deal with you know file formats and [TS]

  legacy date and all the stuff but in [TS]

  general if the company doesn't serve a [TS]

  professional market like that the market [TS]

  will switch very quickly because the [TS]

  market is not sentimental individual [TS]

  people may be sentimental even whole [TS]

  companies can be sentimental but the [TS]

  market in terms of I need a bunch of [TS]

  people to do jobs x4 me with computers [TS]

  is not sentimental and if you don't do [TS]

  the job someone else will and whatever [TS]

  to get a job [TS]

  alright so the next item in the list [TS]

  scares me deeply [TS]

  me too says [TS]

  it says casey and marcos homework and I [TS]

  think I can speak for Marco and saying [TS]

  well maybe that I don't remember that [TS]

  might be just me but I can speak for [TS]

  marketing saying I didn't do my homework [TS]

  so i suppose what was I supposed to have [TS]

  been doing that could always speak for [TS]

  me Casey right that part I was confident [TS]

  it was the remembering part i wasn't [TS]

  sure about i also don't remember what [TS]

  the homework was I felt bad because i [TS]

  was listening back to the show well two [TS]

  people were tweeting at us like I can't [TS]

  wait to hear Casey and Marco and [TS]

  homework and and at that point I'd [TS]

  forgotten what I had said designed to [TS]

  you for homework but I remember doing it [TS]

  but I did it mostly as a joke because we [TS]

  are we know that you have time to hunt [TS]

  homework so when I was listening back to [TS]

  the show as i do i was reminded of what [TS]

  the homework was but listeners may be [TS]

  their new listeners say something about [TS]

  that you're going to actually do this [TS]

  helper a remember with homework 1 i'm [TS]

  gonna be come to the show ready to have [TS]

  the homework was very optimistic [TS]

  yeah don't work was the idea of trying [TS]

  to say trying to figure out how you [TS]

  would distinguish between a situation [TS]

  where the world is moving on from PCs [TS]

  and we are just being left behind [TS]

  because we were dinosaurs or a situation [TS]

  where Apple especially abandoning the [TS]

  mac market even though the early concept [TS]

  of of a pc style computer has many many [TS]

  years to go and apples making a mistake [TS]

  and the idea from the perspective of [TS]

  someone who loves Mack those can both [TS]

  look the same from the inside [TS]

  what might you look for what how what [TS]

  might look for from the inside to try to [TS]

  distinguish those two situations what [TS]

  I'd like is there something because they [TS]

  feel the same and look the same but is [TS]

  there some kind of thing you can look at [TS]

  to say okay well if it was the case that [TS]

  we were being left behind as dinosaurs [TS]

  we would see this but if it turns out [TS]

  that Apple's actually making a mistake [TS]

  we would see that instead [TS]

  is there anything we can look for to let [TS]

  us know which those two things aren't [TS]

  couldn't think of anything on the show [TS]

  and so I signed his homework and you [TS]

  probably forgot about what I don't [TS]

  suppose you have any but interesting [TS]

  thoughts on it now [TS]

  not really i mean i don't really care [TS]

  what the difference there is I want what [TS]

  I want if Apple's not gonna provide [TS]

  anybody yell about it [TS]

  yeah no I mean it's true i must say you [TS]

  don't you understand why i think it's [TS]

  interesting too because i am interested [TS]

  in whether it's the most difficult to be [TS]

  objective about something [TS]

  that did you know you care deeply about [TS]

  but it makes you kind of an enemy of [TS]

  progress if you know you know if the [TS]

  whatever the the buggy whip sales [TS]

  wherever it's like you know or skc was [TS]

  saying the stick shift thing where if [TS]

  you know are you are you using your [TS]

  influence to actually stop the future [TS]

  from coming or are you right and that's [TS]

  not actually the future and really apple [TS]

  just doing something dumb and I think it [TS]

  makes a difference because i don't want [TS]

  to to use all my power and influence and [TS]

  arguing skills to try to hold back [TS]

  progress right so i would like to know [TS]

  if i am not that I'm not going to be [TS]

  upset about it but I would like to know [TS]

  if I am actually the enemy of progress [TS]

  here by clinging to the idea of the [TS]

  personal computer right and so I'm [TS]

  interested in being able to determine [TS]

  what the situation is now I i feel like [TS]

  i'm not particularly strongly on either [TS]

  side of this I I don't think this is for [TS]

  me personally the situation and maybe [TS]

  Marco doesn't care but i think it is I [TS]

  think it's a thing worth considering for [TS]

  all I'm not just for their you know [TS]

  silly [TS]

  yeah New York in the mac things but for [TS]

  all things of this type especially as we [TS]

  get older [TS]

  very often what you really don't want is [TS]

  for things to be different than the then [TS]

  you're used to and it's very easy to [TS]

  decide that your desire did not have [TS]

  things change trumps everything else and [TS]

  that's not you know i'm up i believe in [TS]

  progress and I constantly want to make [TS]

  sure that I am NOT slowly shifting to [TS]

  the opposite side of progress because [TS]

  when you see it from the outside you see [TS]

  somebody who isn't an obvious enemy of [TS]

  progress and doesn't realize it [TS]

  it's a pitiable situation and I never [TS]

  want to be in that situation [TS]

  well you know i think it's it's somewhat [TS]

  useful to look around to see like all [TS]

  right I have these like opinions on how [TS]

  the types of work that I do the types of [TS]

  problems that i need to solve how these [TS]

  things should or need to be done you [TS]

  know obviously one of the biggest things [TS]

  you could say is we'll look around other [TS]

  people of similar problems are they [TS]

  insisted on the same requirements are [TS]

  days are they doing things that way or [TS]

  did they move to something else [TS]

  a long time ago [TS]

  oh and you didn't and they are now get [TS]

  along just fine without the like doing [TS]

  the same kinds of things that you want [TS]

  to do but in in in the new you know [TS]

  quote progress way you know obviously [TS]

  it's hard to make this apply to [TS]

  everything and looking around you know [TS]

  it's hard for people to have a lot of [TS]

  good data on like you know what a lot of [TS]

  people doing because you know mostly [TS]

  just a little while I look around and I [TS]

  see like the other people in my office [TS]

  are doing this or my parents are doing [TS]

  this or my kids are doing this or [TS]

  whatever you could look at it you know [TS]

  you have a few friends you can look at [TS]

  but like most people have a pretty small [TS]

  sample group they can draw from for that [TS]

  kind of analysis but I think sometimes [TS]

  that's enough [TS]

  you know I i think if you if you can [TS]

  look around you can see like am I the [TS]

  last person doing this this way you know [TS]

  like that then that's that's probably a [TS]

  sign that you are on the wrong side of [TS]

  things but if there's still like if the [TS]

  way if what you are defending is still [TS]

  done by what seems like the majority [TS]

  people who do that kind of thing then [TS]

  you might still be wrong like you know [TS]

  you might be at the very beginning of a [TS]

  wave and just everyone else hasn't [TS]

  realized it yet either but chances are [TS]

  you're probably at least a little bit [TS]

  right [TS]

  chances are that you know you're [TS]

  probably on the right side of that at [TS]

  least for now [TS]

  you know it might be something that's [TS]

  really forward-looking that everyone's [TS]

  missing but that doesn't happen very [TS]

  often [TS]

  everyone thinks that happens a lot but [TS]

  it doesn't happen very often in reality [TS]

  I was actually having an interesting [TS]

  conversation with a friend of mine [TS]

  earlier earlier tonight about whether or [TS]

  not [TS]

  olee he said to me something I thought [TS]

  was very interesting and he said the mac [TS]

  or not the mac excuse me [TS]

  desktop os's are solved problem and I [TS]

  think he was being a little bit of [TS]

  dramatics right word but he was kind of [TS]

  playing up his point of view a little [TS]

  bit right to make a point but he was [TS]

  saying you know desktop OS is our solve [TS]

  problems and and at first I was like [TS]

  what's no God no what are you talking [TS]

  about but as I thought about it I I [TS]

  still disagree with him and again I [TS]

  think he was just making a point to to [TS]

  come play devil's advocate but [TS]

  I understand where he's coming from in [TS]

  that if you look at what we want from a [TS]

  desktop OS and and he asked me that [TS]

  actually in but I said to him was I just [TS]

  wanted not to be ignored man like i just [TS]

  want progress but if you look at it [TS]

  there's been progress like Siri doesn't [TS]

  really do anything for me on the desktop [TS]

  but that's progress that's a big deal [TS]

  and that's just a single data point but [TS]

  it's an example of things that are [TS]

  happening everyone has been a moaning [TS]

  lately about how messages hasn't been [TS]

  touched on Sierra that's just not right [TS]

  like the the rich previews or how [TS]

  rephrase it where for example you paste [TS]

  a link to a tweet and you see the tweet [TS]

  in in the messages window like granted i [TS]

  wish i had sticker support in Sierra [TS]

  like I totally do [TS]

  I don't know that I would use it that [TS]

  often but i just wish i had the support [TS]

  for right but even something as are [TS]

  arguably silly as rich previews and [TS]

  messages makes a world of difference and [TS]

  that's progress and so to me I think [TS]

  just not even necessarily bringing iOS [TS]

  and into mac OS but just having that [TS]

  that that continued incremental [TS]

  improvement that's all I really want [TS]

  from a desktop OS right now into that in [TS]

  my friends kind of write that in a large [TS]

  way it's kind of a solved problem now [TS]

  the next breath I'll tell you what is it [TS]

  really a small problem with the touch [TS]

  bar this is brand new paradigm that just [TS]

  came out we don't really know what we're [TS]

  doing with that so obviously this is a [TS]

  very shaky argument but when you compare [TS]

  that to iOS where there's plenty of work [TS]

  left to be done certainly iOS is in many [TS]

  ways the more interesting platform now [TS]

  not necessarily saying interesting to me [TS]

  i'm not saying interesting to everyone [TS]

  because personally I still like the mac [TS]

  i still prefer the mac we went over this [TS]

  either last episode last episode before [TS]

  but there's a lot more progress to be [TS]

  made and I look at people like Ben [TS]

  Brooks I look at the teaching and I look [TS]

  at my curly and I see them doing [TS]

  everything in their jobs or nearly [TS]

  everything on iOS devices and I come to [TS]

  kind of what John was saying a minute [TS]

  ago and either one [TS]

  that's telling everyone to get off there [TS]

  get off my lawn like am I the one that's [TS]

  really holding on to the past and I'm [TS]

  not saying that is the case but I am [TS]

  definitely wandering into more directly [TS]

  answer Jon's question how do we know [TS]

  which one of these it is i'm not sure [TS]

  but right now i can tell you that it [TS]

  seems to me like there are some pretty [TS]

  direct ways to accomplish things on the [TS]

  mac and i can think of a great example [TS]

  of top my head but but there you can [TS]

  accomplish a lot of things on the mac [TS]

  directly where in iOS you need to like [TS]

  daisy chain 7 different apps to make the [TS]

  same operation happen and that doesn't [TS]

  mean that iOS is wrong but to me as long [TS]

  as that still the case as long as you [TS]

  still have to write a custom workflow to [TS]

  get something to happen in the workflow [TS]

  app which by the way is truly [TS]

  mind-boggling amazing but as long as [TS]

  that's how you get things done like that [TS]

  is the official way to get things done [TS]

  on iOS I don't think that the mac is [TS]

  dead quite yet and I mean I'm not even [TS]

  talking about like writing code or [TS]

  anything like that i'm just talking [TS]

  about like general things that that [TS]

  professionals do and you can define [TS]

  professionals professional podcasters as [TS]

  professional project managers as cmo's [TS]

  whatever benbrook his title is I don't [TS]

  even remember anymore but if they're [TS]

  jumping through hoops in order to get [TS]

  their work done even if they don't [TS]

  necessarily feel like it's jumping [TS]

  through hoops it's still daisy-chaining [TS]

  a bunch of different steps together as [TS]

  long as that's still a thing I don't [TS]

  think the mac is dead but when that [TS]

  stops being a thing or becomes even [TS]

  easier to kind of daisy chain all these [TS]

  things you're not writing custom [TS]

  workflows because apps are supporting it [TS]

  then I start to wonder maybe on the old [TS]

  man here after all [TS]

  well that this is why I think it's [TS]

  important to me to really make these [TS]

  these observational comparisons will [TS]

  check out your conversations on people [TS]

  who do the same kind of work that you do [TS]

  right like you know people you mentioned [TS]

  are podcasters and writers and the [TS]

  podcasters also use macs to podcast with [TS]

  not not all podcast but the ones you [TS]

  mentioned and you know a writer can get [TS]

  away with using iOS only or primarily a [TS]

  lot more easily than a programmer can [TS]

  day and you know so I i think it once [TS]

  people like you know you and I all three [TS]

  of us are all programmers once a whole [TS]

  bunch of programmers dump their pcs and [TS]

  macs and do everything to all of their [TS]

  work on iOS then I think we have to [TS]

  start looking okay you know this there's [TS]

  a thing here we should we should [TS]

  consider this we should pay attention to [TS]

  this maybe we're wrong at that point but [TS]

  until that happens which might never [TS]

  come again I want to be very careful [TS]

  here and how i phrase this like you know [TS]

  you said like you know like you know [TS]

  that the mac is dead and back is in debt [TS]

  until this happens and a lot of people [TS]

  you know that you phrase these things in [TS]

  a way that presents them as an [TS]

  inevitable future but i do want to i do [TS]

  want to be clear here that when i talk [TS]

  about this i'm not necessarily [TS]

  considering this inevitable future the [TS]

  future I mean you know obviously OS [TS]

  eventually do die and and you know fall [TS]

  out of favor and fall to use and [TS]

  maintenance but I i am still not yet [TS]

  convinced that the pc style operating [TS]

  system is destined to to be you know [TS]

  sideline and killed in favor of the [TS]

  mobile style operating system within the [TS]

  foreseeable future like eventually on a [TS]

  different time scale might happen but [TS]

  you know I i don't i don't see this as [TS]

  like the obvious you know foretold [TS]

  future that is that is certain to happen [TS]

  but in any way I think you really have [TS]

  to just look at like you know people who [TS]

  do the kind of work you do and most of [TS]

  the people who were talking about going [TS]

  ios-only or iOS being the inevitable [TS]

  future [TS]

  most of these people are writers and [TS]

  analysts and executives and that's fine [TS]

  and there's a lot of people who who that [TS]

  will be fine for but if you start [TS]

  talking to people who do different kinds [TS]

  of things their computers including [TS]

  things that we all that all three of us [TS]

  do then you start very quickly to hit [TS]

  limits of like oh well you you kind of [TS]

  can't do that on iOS yet or you that's [TS]

  really difficult and clunky to do in iOS [TS]

  I don't think you can look at a bunch of [TS]

  people who professionally right as their [TS]

  main job and and say like well they're [TS]

  all using iPads therefore i should be [TS]

  using an iPad you been you should be [TS]

  more concerned if people who do the [TS]

  kinds of things you do [TS]

  like programming if they switch and [TS]

  that's when you should pay attention [TS]

  I I largely agree with you but I don't [TS]

  think it's fair to classify federico [TS]

  Mike and Brooks all is simply writers I [TS]

  mean I think they're doing I didn't say [TS]

  simply and I well that's important [TS]

  ok it's not there it's a job that is [TS]

  very amenable to iOS primary or iOS only [TS]

  work and there are a lot of jobs which [TS]

  is the case but there's a lot where it [TS]

  isn't also yeah I guess my point is that [TS]

  I I don't want to paint the image [TS]

  because I can hear Mike Harley and [TS]

  Federico screaming at us from the future [TS]

  it's not all that is right you know [TS]

  it'sit's there they're doing sometimes [TS]

  relatively intense you know spreadsheet [TS]

  working look at the the quarterly [TS]

  earnings reports that federico to your [TS]

  farts out in the span of like four [TS]

  seconds because while the workflows it [TS]

  he's built in and you know Mike it in in [TS]

  in Stephen hacker you know building for [TS]

  invoicing advertisers and doing all [TS]

  sorts of like traditional business see [TS]

  things so I i agree with you that that [TS]

  it is mostly writer like things on the [TS]

  surface but there's a lot more to it [TS]

  when you start digging in [TS]

  but that doesn't negate your point that [TS]

  the these people with the exception [TS]

  perhaps of Federico actually these [TS]

  people are not developers they're not [TS]

  writing code will accept federico honey [TS]

  their devices in Federation a liar and a [TS]

  lot of his yeah I I agree I agree but on [TS]

  but yeah I it's not the sort of thing [TS]

  that the three of us do but i don't want [TS]

  to discount in summary as as legitimate [TS]

  work that is more than just writing [TS]

  prose on a piece of paper that's all it [TS]

  no I never said legitimate or simple lie [TS]

  I'm not sayin yeah i'm not i'm not [TS]

  characterizing it this way it is [TS]

  different software needs and different [TS]

  with different things you need from your [TS]

  computing devices and and and different [TS]

  levels of of like flexibility and access [TS]

  to things like files and inner inner [TS]

  program communication and the [TS]

  integration of lots of things within the [TS]

  same data set like we did with [TS]

  programming like that you know they're [TS]

  there are certain traits witnesses to [TS]

  both OS styles but again you know I i [TS]

  think when people who do the kinds of [TS]

  things you do are switching and mass [TS]

  that's when to pay attention before that [TS]

  happen [TS]

  that unless that happens I I don't think [TS]

  you need to be worried too much that you [TS]

  are the dinosaur holding back progress [TS]

  also it's quite impressive that john [TS]

  thinks that we can hold back progress [TS]

  but now i'm just saying like what are [TS]

  you spending your time doing this is [TS]

  that if you see somebody yelling yes [TS]

  that even if they if they don't actually [TS]

  do anything it does not it seems like [TS]

  they're they're wasting their time and [TS]

  it's a sad situation where they don't [TS]

  realize that the world is passing by one [TS]

  more item on this the that i think about [TS]

  it sort of the second level version of [TS]

  checking yourself which is more focused [TS]

  on Apple the company and less focused on [TS]

  whether what the future of computing is [TS]

  and that is the question of whether it's [TS]

  important for Apple to be in the the [TS]

  personal computer market so even if you [TS]

  see everything that Marco said that like [TS]

  okay well people doing these types of [TS]

  jobs still need pc or whatever is it the [TS]

  best thing for the company called apple [TS]

  does it need to be in the pc market and [TS]

  that's where we talk about the goal they [TS]

  need you know the max developer iOS what [TS]

  they have a development environment [TS]

  iPads well it's not the same blog could [TS]

  you develop iOS applications on PCs like [TS]

  that's the next question is even if you [TS]

  stipulate pieces are going away anytime [TS]

  soon [TS]

  should Apple continue to sell pcs is the [TS]

  mac only hang around for old times sake [TS]

  and tradition and affection but it will [TS]

  be better for the company to allow all [TS]

  the people who develop for iOS to do so [TS]

  on a platform that someone else [TS]

  maintains and really is arguing for [TS]

  Apple to say in the market really we're [TS]

  just trying to like you know I mean we [TS]

  made the argument of times like that [TS]

  every every other alternative is worse [TS]

  so we would be sad but it from the [TS]

  perspective of Apple the company they [TS]

  may say yes everyone we agree every [TS]

  alternative is worse than the mac but [TS]

  the mac is no longer worth the money for [TS]

  us to invest in a rather than letting a [TS]

  limp along with us never updating our [TS]

  stuff and you being all mad about it why [TS]

  don't we just get out of the business [TS]

  same way we got out of printers and [TS]

  Wi-Fi hubs and what [TS]

  that also they're not in and won't that [TS]

  be refreshing we can finally concentrate [TS]

  on the thing we do best which is the [TS]

  iphone with some ancillary iOS type [TS]

  things and you blah blah blah [TS]

  I i think you know obviously I disagree [TS]

  with that everybody that's that's i [TS]

  still keep it in mind as the second the [TS]

  second possibility [TS]

  the first being that you know that you [TS]

  know we're on the wrong side of history [TS]

  and the second is where the right side [TS]

  of history but just because we love [TS]

  apple just because it's the best that it [TS]

  would actually be better for the company [TS]

  Apple to get out of this business so I [TS]

  could concentrate on the other stuff [TS]

  which again I I don't buy but I still I [TS]

  still entertain that as a thought [TS]

  experiment that I that I revisit to make [TS]

  sure that it's not the case because that [TS]

  can sneak up on you to where you're like [TS]

  you feel so strongly that you're right [TS]

  that like look everybody who's editing [TS]

  videos doing in a big powerful personal [TS]

  computer [TS]

  prosecutors can't go I'm a video editor [TS]

  i need that video i look at all the [TS]

  other people who are writing video and [TS]

  no one's doing on an iPad clewd the [TS]

  pieces of thing and then to make the [TS]

  leap there for Apple needs to make a new [TS]

  mac pro does Apple need to make an actor [TS]

  or do you just need to switch to windows [TS]

  and be sad my you know a bit because [TS]

  again pros will use whatever they have [TS]

  to use to get the job done and the more [TS]

  like an appliance is the time on market [TS]

  was talking about getting the surface to [TS]

  do the more you use a computer like an [TS]

  appliance to get your job done as a [TS]

  professional the less tied you are [TS]

  effectively if not emotionally to the [TS]

  particular platform using so if you just [TS]

  gonna be in Lightroom all day and the [TS]

  surface to do is the best you know [TS]

  dedicated lightroom appliance you go [TS]

  into the office it down frame and all [TS]

  you do is lightroom lightroom like them [TS]

  all day long [TS]

  maybe that is better than any solution [TS]

  apple has to offer and maybe Apple [TS]

  staying in that business is just [TS]

  sometimes a mental thing that you care [TS]

  about but realistically speaking we [TS]

  would all be much happier of Apple got [TS]

  out of it and stop making a line of [TS]

  computers entirely and you just sat down [TS]

  in front of your service to do and gave [TS]

  that business to Microsoft some company [TS]

  that that's actually interested in [TS]

  pursuing it [TS]

  yeah well as soon as apple tarts being [TS]

  managed by the numbers that way they're [TS]

  going to find themselves i think in in a [TS]

  very boring and slowly declining place [TS]

  with numbers suggest so or not that is a [TS]

  very very fast way to become microsoft [TS]

  with under steve ballmer I'm not like [TS]

  that's you know that there was this [TS]

  wonderful Steve Jobs video that flutter [TS]

  and read a couple weeks ago about how [TS]

  like [TS]

  you know it took like five it takes like [TS]

  five years to realize that when the bit [TS]

  flips and you start like make computers [TS]

  just to make money and not to make [TS]

  better computers or something like that [TS]

  i'm probably butchering it but he also [TS]

  said he would milk the mac for all tours [TS]

  and move on to the next big thing and [TS]

  guess what [TS]

  the mac is it's not like an analogy he [TS]

  was talking about specifically the Mac [TS]

  the Mac we're talking about now [TS]

  no good for all it's worth we want the [TS]

  next thing is clearly thought the next [TS]

  thing was the iPhone the iPad and it's [TS]

  pretty clear the next thing is the [TS]

  iphone that but we're still making mac [TS]

  so in some ways it would be like [TS]

  pursuing your passion not continuing to [TS]

  make the back just because you've always [TS]

  made it if the company itself is [TS]

  enthusiastic about iOS devices only then [TS]

  continuing to make max in a [TS]

  disappointing way you know it's not as [TS]

  if I were you just going to go if you're [TS]

  going to go by the numbers that i should [TS]

  go where the big business but maybe that [TS]

  maybe the passion just not doing it [TS]

  anymore for the max maybe they see it as [TS]

  a declining business they're not [TS]

  interested in and isn't it better for [TS]

  all of us to divorce this dysfunctional [TS]

  relationship stop making the mac force [TS]

  everybody to go windows which will or [TS]

  whatever which will force more money [TS]

  into that market that will hopefully [TS]

  motivate microsoft to make the surface [TS]

  to do better you know I'm am not [TS]

  recommending any of this just because [TS]

  you're all thought experiments and all [TS]

  things that I revisit every visit mostly [TS]

  reject but if you never revisit them [TS]

  you'll they'll sneak up on you [TS]

  well but here's the problem with [TS]

  thinking so you start running the [TS]

  company by the numbers and you think [TS]

  well it'll be fine will you no will will [TS]

  let the mac languages will kill it [TS]

  because it's not you know it's not what [TS]

  we want to go or whatever whatever the [TS]

  reason doesn't matter but it's not about [TS]

  the numbers they're not passionate about [TS]

  is the past in there they're passionate [TS]

  about the future so they're running it [TS]

  by their passion they're not they're not [TS]

  being a slave to the past they're saying [TS]

  what we're interested in is I don't [TS]

  maybe interested in AR or whatever but [TS]

  you know that maybe they're not [TS]

  interested in the mac anymore so I've [TS]

  ever since the opposite of running about [TS]

  that because the numbers would tell you [TS]

  why throw away 22 billion dollar [TS]

  business right [TS]

  there's just this free money why you [TS]

  throwing it away say we're throwing it [TS]

  away so we can concentrate more fully on [TS]

  the thing that we really believe in the [TS]

  future which is the opposite of steve [TS]

  ballmer steve ballmer will keep the mac [TS]

  going forever and just do exactly what [TS]

  the customers wanted forever and ever [TS]

  as the rest of the world moves on you [TS]

  know I mean I feel like that's more of [TS]

  the steve ballmer your Apple would [TS]

  definitely not keep some same products [TS]

  forever [TS]

  no I mean like I don't like I you know [TS]

  of cell of trying to do with that market [TS]

  wants exactly like they would be giving [TS]

  us Big Macs with lots of [TS]

  ports and you know constantly revising [TS]

  them and just SAT like making them [TS]

  satisfied in the way to like you know [TS]

  IBM mainframe customers are satisfied [TS]

  the IBM will continue to make mainframes [TS]

  for its mainframe customers and give [TS]

  them exactly what they want all the [TS]

  while the whole rest of the movie world [TS]

  is moving on from mainframes but they [TS]

  don't know they're like it's fine you [TS]

  know they keep making us better and [TS]

  better mainframes and we love mainframes [TS]

  and they wake up one day and the entire [TS]

  world has moved on like wait there's [TS]

  only like 10 of us left but we were so [TS]

  happy for all these years and and we're [TS]

  happy to give IBM all this money and [TS]

  they kept making these also made for [TS]

  insurance and the world has moved on [TS]

  past right so that I feel like that's [TS]

  more of a bomber thing fair but [TS]

  everything you're saying about the mac [TS]

  what happens when they apply that exact [TS]

  same logic to the iphone but they can I [TS]

  mean if there are no longer passionate [TS]

  about the iphone and they think the next [TS]

  big thing is something else you know [TS]

  then they should like it's it's exactly [TS]

  the same thing Steve Steve Jobs saying [TS]

  like milk the mac for alternate move on [TS]

  to the next big thing eventually its [TS]

  milk the iphone fall to earth move on to [TS]

  the next big thing because if you don't [TS]

  someone else will like someone else [TS]

  where your lunch if you don't need [TS]

  another cannibalizing your business [TS]

  Apple's the window cannibalized its own [TS]

  ipods appleton cannibalize ipod sales [TS]

  the sales curve for ipods look like the [TS]

  same big hump with spikes on it for the [TS]

  holidays [TS]

  it would look exactly the same but [TS]

  someone else would have replaced it [TS]

  whether it's samsung or Microsoft or [TS]

  whoever whoever would have won that war [TS]

  if Apple can cannibalize the ipod [TS]

  someone else would so it's not like [TS]

  Apple bank the company on the ipod said [TS]

  it's going to be ipod forever and the [TS]

  American people were saying the ipod is [TS]

  going to go off the mac and now Apple is [TS]

  just an ipod company and the apple store [TS]

  is the ipod store right [TS]

  Apple's the one cannibalize the ipod it [TS]

  turns out the ipod ark was obviously [TS]

  shorter than we think the iphone arc is [TS]

  going to be the iphone our cholesterol [TS]

  lives for all we know right or longer [TS]

  but that's that's the challenging of the [TS]

  innovators dilemma and all that other [TS]

  crap that's the challenge of business [TS]

  and the mac in all these grasses this [TS]

  aberration that never goes up and never [TS]

  goes down it just keeps on trucking and [TS]

  I think they're you know I'm again i'm [TS]

  not i'm playing devil's advocate [TS]

  everything this year [TS]

  these are things that are worth thinking [TS]

  about I don't find them convincing if I [TS]

  had to make the argument I would say [TS]

  Apple needs to continue making the mac [TS]

  and should do much better job at it [TS]

  because the time is not complex i'm [TS]

  mostly [TS]

  I'm on the same page marker like other [TS]

  people who are doing these tasks are not [TS]

  currently using anything that's not like [TS]

  a pc that using PC's to do them like [TS]

  they're not using surface tablets are [TS]

  not using this point is still using [TS]

  surface to do that they're using PC's [TS]

  with the windows pcs or unix [TS]

  workstations running Maya or or max [TS]

  they're just not using iPads to do these [TS]

  jobs right and that's I think that is [TS]

  you know but market and doing homework [TS]

  but he came up with their pretty [TS]

  reasonable last-minute scrambling all [TS]

  the teachers come around and collecting [TS]

  the papers how I got through school [TS]

  yeah i think that is a thing to look for [TS]

  and you have to be careful because if [TS]

  you're just looking at the people who [TS]

  are like hanging out in the same circles [TS]

  as you then it's all like sort of [TS]

  self-selecting like we'll all my friends [TS]

  still use pcs but maybe every kid [TS]

  graduating school is doing you know like [TS]

  for example digital video like every kid [TS]

  graduating film school is shooting [TS]

  digital video and editing digibeta [TS]

  you're like well my friends are still [TS]

  shooting on film so films never gonna [TS]

  die you're you're being blind you're [TS]

  missing it right but I think in this [TS]

  case for the jobs were talking about [TS]

  certainly programming because I think we [TS]

  have a good view on that [TS]

  not just for iOS and mac program which [TS]

  in all realms that serious programming [TS]

  is still done in pc-style devices video [TS]

  editing for the most part is still done [TS]

  pc-style devices but you gotta want to [TS]

  watch the kids watch the kids coming in [TS]

  from school are there edit our the [TS]

  editing the film school project on an [TS]

  iPad or on a surface studio are on [TS]

  anything like that you know that's the [TS]

  sort of like the leading indicator and [TS]

  that's the thing to watch for I i think [TS]

  right now the answer is that [TS]

  pc-style computers are still think to do [TS]

  my big fear is that Apple decides that [TS]

  it's not worth them being in the [TS]

  business I don't particularly have a [TS]

  fear fear that in the near future the pc [TS]

  style of computing is going to go away [TS]

  I have a fear isn't the Apple personal [TS]

  computer meaning the mac is going to go [TS]

  away because apple doesn't care about or [TS]

  neglected to the point and that's the [TS]

  worst-case scenario where you still have [TS]

  to use a pc but you don't longer get to [TS]

  choose the mac because it's you know [TS]

  it's no longer any good for you that's [TS]

  when i switch to linux god help us all a [TS]

  quick side note about that though John I [TS]

  had some co-workers at the last gig that [TS]

  did use surface tablets to do their work [TS]

  like to write code to do their work to [TS]

  do have that was their complete [TS]

  they're only couple of them in and I [TS]

  think by and large they kind of [TS]

  regretted their decision but in that [TS]

  sense it is happening that is the thing [TS]

  that happens from time that i recall [TS]

  that I keep putting the surface and [TS]

  around thinking more of like using the [TS]

  touch interface to the surface devices [TS]

  even more the surface studio where your [TS]

  where you are touching the screen that [TS]

  amaze respects the surface books and all [TS]

  that stuff [TS]

  they're just a convertible laptop like [TS]

  it's modeled by the fact that that [TS]

  Windows is this unified platform but [TS]

  yeah I have people work to do [TS]

  programming stuff on services to but [TS]

  it's just a laptop is it at that point [TS]

  it's like a weird laptop with a bendy [TS]

  hinge and it's running windows and [TS]

  they're running terminal stuff and they [TS]

  have a keyboard and they have a trackpad [TS]

  pointing device and they also have a pen [TS]

  you can kind of be a tablet but [TS]

  essentially they're using a laptop like [TS]

  they have they have windows with with [TS]

  title bars and scroll bars like it's i [TS]

  pay you know it it's confusing because [TS]

  of the way Microsoft has done its [TS]

  unified us strategy but i would still [TS]

  totally classify was as pc-style because [TS]

  it's it is very distinct from the iOS [TS]

  style even when i see my daughter she's [TS]

  getting a keyboard logitech keyboard [TS]

  thing for I bet he when she does you [TS]

  know form of laptop with her you know [TS]

  that's one twin Soria you guys miss that [TS]

  show anyway right but she makes a little [TS]

  laptop out of her iPad and our keyboard [TS]

  there's no it's still not a laptop [TS]

  yes it looks like one yes there's a kind [TS]

  of a vertical screen and horizontal ish [TS]

  keyboard but there's no point on her [TS]

  screen she's not using a trackpad there [TS]

  are no windows there are no scroll bars [TS]

  and scroll thumbs is no menu bar along [TS]

  the top of it is not a pc computing [TS]

  experience she's not you know like it [TS]

  its yeah we we live in a strange time we [TS]

  live in a strange transitional time but [TS]

  some things defy categorization but i [TS]

  think the salient points like what makes [TS]

  it a pc what makes it a pc style [TS]

  computing environment are pretty clear [TS]

  for me obviously it's all about windows [TS]

  because what the hell imagine if the 28 [TS]

  inch surface studio did not have windows [TS]

  like everything was full screen or split [TS]

  screen like it doesn't the ipad we would [TS]

  say this is the biggest waste of a 28 [TS]

  inch screen in the world unless you're [TS]

  only ever in one app doing like more [TS]

  time than fine but for a general-purpose [TS]

  computing device getting back to Marco's [TS]

  idea that you can do more than one thing [TS]

  at a time [TS]

  a general-purpose computing device that [TS]

  can only show apps in full screen on a [TS]

  20 inch display is just a very wrong [TS]

  headed idea and i would say that's not [TS]

  pc computer that's more like iOS here's [TS]

  a question where it in what products is [TS]

  Apple really like stepping on the gas [TS]

  and really firing on all cylinders [TS]

  earpods I know it's not the valid answer [TS]

  in this context but I cannot stop [TS]

  talking about how much i love my ear [TS]

  pods i would say the iphone i mean i [TS]

  know i think the last show recently [TS]

  listened to it so it's fresh in my mind [TS]

  marker said like all the new iphone 7 [TS]

  like internally the changes aren't that [TS]

  big like look at the graphs man like [TS]

  every part of this every part of this [TS]

  that can be better computing wise and [TS]

  capacity wise is better by leaps and [TS]

  bounds by like nineties error pc leaps [TS]

  and bounds like it's not that the state [TS]

  the cpu is not just a little bit faster [TS]

  the GPU is not just a little bit faster [TS]

  than the flash capacities like Max's [TS]

  would you know that double like you can [TS]

  only get 1 28 last year 9250 sexes it's [TS]

  fantastically better internal in it you [TS]

  know the only thing that's not you know [TS]

  better about a bio they're not stand [TS]

  against like oh the case is the same [TS]

  shape and even there they did you know [TS]

  they changed the surface in such a way [TS]

  that Marcos universe saying is his [TS]

  favorite product of last year because it [TS]

  made such a difference in in day-to-day [TS]

  use so I i still think iphone is is you [TS]

  know pedal to the metal and their pods [TS]

  are part of that are part of their weird [TS]

  headphone thing which by the way has [TS]

  bitten me I don't have a USBC laptop but [TS]

  I've been bitten by the the headphones [TS]

  thing like five times recently where I [TS]

  thought I had everything I needed [TS]

  I was going to plug a headphone in and [TS]

  realized even on the plane coming back I [TS]

  brought the adapter for me to use my [TS]

  noise-canceling headphones but then my [TS]

  daughter wanted to use some headphones [TS]

  to and plug-in it's like out well I only [TS]

  have one of that they're like you always [TS]

  you always think you have everything you [TS]

  need but here just used oh nevermind or [TS]

  gone on a car trip and you know before [TS]

  yeah we're going to plug in my wife's [TS]

  old car she just had walks in with like [TS]

  a headphone port and I brought my ipod [TS]

  with me or my phone with me and we can [TS]

  listen to like the podcast that I'm in [TS]

  the middle of and we get in the car and [TS]

  start driving away and I grabbed a [TS]

  little aux cord from the center console [TS]

  and pick it up ago [TS]

  no this happens there's no place i can [TS]

  plug that into my phone and of course [TS]

  not carrying adapter around with me so [TS]

  yeah the struggle is realized they say [TS]

  response this week by Casper and [TS]

  obsessively engineer mattress at a [TS]

  shockingly fair price [TS]

  go to Casper calm / ATP and use code ATP [TS]

  for fifty dollars towards your mattress [TS]

  Casper created one perfect mattress sold [TS]

  directly to consumers eliminating [TS]

  Commission driven inflated prices the [TS]

  award-winning caster mattress was [TS]

  developed in house with a sleek design [TS]

  has delivered a remarkably small box you [TS]

  can get it up narrow stairs if you need [TS]

  to and also in addition to the mattress [TS]

  Casper also now offers an adaptive [TS]

  pillow and soft breathable sheets the [TS]

  mattress industry is for consumers and [TS]

  the payment Horace lehigh markups cancer [TS]

  revolutionize the industry by cutting [TS]

  the cost of dealing with resellers and [TS]

  pass that savings directly on to you [TS]

  the in-house team of engineers spent [TS]

  thousands of hours developing the [TS]

  catcher mattress it contains supportive [TS]

  memory foams for a sleep surface with [TS]

  just the right sink and just the right [TS]

  balance and it's breathable design sleep [TS]

  school to help you regular temperature [TS]

  throughout the night and also casts were [TS]

  made buying mattresses online easy and [TS]

  completely risk-free mean it sounds [TS]

  crazy a mattress online but they offer [TS]

  free delivery and free returns with a [TS]

  hundred knight home trial period so [TS]

  here's how this works you can just buy [TS]

  the mattress just take the risk because [TS]

  if you don't love it within a hundred [TS]

  Knights just call them up and they will [TS]

  arrange a pickup at your house and give [TS]

  you a full refund no questions asked [TS]

  they understand the importance of truly [TS]

  sleeping on a mattress before you can [TS]

  make it you know you're gonna be [TS]

  spending a third of your life on it [TS]

  we've heard from friends and listeners [TS]

  who all have great things to say about [TS]

  casper mattresses and time as he named [TS]

  it one of the best inventions 2015 so [TS]

  check it out today [TS]

  get your cast for mattress try it for a [TS]

  hundred Knights in your home risk-free [TS]

  free delivery free returns with home [TS]

  pick up go to Casper calm / ATP to see [TS]

  for yourself [TS]

  Casper calm / ATP and use code ATP for [TS]

  fifty dollars towards your mattress [TS]

  terms and conditions to apply [TS]

  thank you very much to Casper for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  alright final bit of follow-up speaking [TS]

  of cars so I'll up our own son well the [TS]

  this is one of those episodes were [TS]

  follow-up isn't exactly follow up which [TS]

  is probably the most episodes anyway [TS]

  sammobile submit who is co-host of the [TS]

  wheel bearings podcast which if you ever [TS]

  wanted neutral but with people who [TS]

  actually knew what they were talking [TS]

  about you should look up wheelbarrow [TS]

  that's because anyway he writes into say [TS]

  the 2016-2017 model your courts do [TS]

  indeed support both carplay and android [TS]

  auto as do most new hondas the only [TS]

  hundreds that are still waiting for [TS]

  android auto and car play update our the [TS]

  fit in the HRV i'm not sure what that is [TS]

  I know the crv even with HIV don't know [TS]

  what the HRV is then be glad it's [TS]

  terrible but anyway the 2018 odyssey's [TS]

  debuting in a couple of weeks of Detroit [TS]

  at the detroit auto show so that makes [TS]

  me think the team is car does indeed [TS]

  have carplay doesn't not so here's [TS]

  here's the question [TS]

  I've never used carpet I've seen [TS]

  pictures of it online and I think I [TS]

  didn't seem like screenshots of like [TS]

  Marcos carplay stuff and I've seen [TS]

  marcos disembodied car playtesting [TS]

  what's happening right but I don't know [TS]

  how carplay works do I have to download [TS]

  an app onto my phone called car plant [TS]

  know so I just you think of I just plug [TS]

  the phone into my wife's car with a wire [TS]

  because we don't have the wireless [TS]

  version that something will happen on [TS]

  the screen to indicate you are in car [TS]

  plane now apparently if you just plug it [TS]

  in there will be one of those alerts [TS]

  like a computer where it says do you [TS]

  trust this car or something like that [TS]

  and then magic happens now I've got [TS]

  witnesses myself this is real-time [TS]

  follow-up but that's what I'm being told [TS]

  you I trust this car [TS]

  yeah last time Taylor was saying that [TS]

  was only on certain trim levels at [TS]

  bottom line is like the schrödinger's [TS]

  cat of car place for it until I actually [TS]

  try it [TS]

  her car both has carplay support and [TS]

  doesn't have car place support but [TS]

  seriously i do i had not occurred to me [TS]

  to think like do I have to download it [TS]

  happen once i download the app do i do a [TS]

  thing or is it just plug it in and I [TS]

  think basically we've never actually [TS]

  plugged any of our iphones into her car [TS]

  because it's all been bluetooth so it [TS]

  could be that the that's holy right mr. [TS]

  plug it in [TS]

  John how do you not know this already [TS]

  I'll be the first thing i tried I've [TS]

  driven that car onto and off of the [TS]

  driveway like twice that's how far i've [TS]

  driven my car [TS]

  why don't you just go outside right now [TS]

  and give it a shot I'm going to do not [TS]

  i'm really not gonna take one just go [TS]

  give it what it will take to long it'll [TS]

  take just a minute all right out I'll be [TS]

  back [TS]

  hang on so literally as I'm saying this [TS]

  tina is sending the attacks saying that [TS]

  it is not a thing [TS]

  hold on i'm looking up the this hrv its [TS]

  kind it looks basically like the honda [TS]

  x1 ok i was standard on a core TX excel [TS]

  in touring but I think she doesn't have [TS]

  the exo i think is optional for her trim [TS]

  it was just not there was an optional [TS]

  says that's we don't have that I don't [TS]

  know what is what is it honda USA heat [TS]

  that it whenever you go to like Honda or [TS]

  Audi or whatever it's the corporate this [TS]

  is the most American thing I think I've [TS]

  ever said why does not go to high did [TS]

  not go directly to America it's just [TS]

  like in in the country list drop-down [TS]

  why are we not the first time listed [TS]

  like [TS]

  like [TS]

  and no applicant really this is barbaric [TS]

  do I really have to scroll look at how [TS]

  likely is that I'm actually from like [TS]

  you know any of these other places like [TS]

  just put the put the US on top for the [TS]

  stupid arrogant Americans and everything [TS]

  else below if I i am fully behind this [TS]

  tina saying there was no option its she [TS]

  does not have any exits sports special [TS]

  it was not an option there's basically [TS]

  no options period anyway my guest John [TS]

  outside in the cold in the winter for no [TS]

  reason know what I'm sure he won't be [TS]

  mad but I'm never getting yelled at by [TS]

  tina that nobody wants to believe her [TS]

  I can't believe you Tina just wanted to [TS]

  send right outside that too but this [TS]

  basically every conversation I've had [TS]

  with aaron ever go there and tells me [TS]

  this is not a thing or this is a thing [TS]

  now you've got to be wrong it turns out [TS]

  you're right [TS]

  every conversation I've ever had with [TS]

  Aaron yeah I believe we have words for [TS]

  this one of the more charitable one's [TS]

  probably means mansplaining the magic of [TS]

  Technology ya meri jaan here is what [TS]

  happened so i go to the car and I get [TS]

  all my stuff my cables and everything [TS]

  and I I plug you know get the car turned [TS]

  on i plug the thing in a way to see [TS]

  something pop up on my phone screen [TS]

  nothing ever pops up with a couple [TS]

  seconds and here you two talking about [TS]

  what I'm doing right now is going to you [TS]

  tomorrow with your trainer and the the [TS]

  honda website and stuff like that [TS]

  because Venus phone popped on right to [TS]

  the tina upstairs on bluetooth and the [TS]

  car is paired with her from him so start [TS]

  over for a second like what the world is [TS]

  going good so obviously the magic of [TS]

  Bluetooth anyway my result of the short [TS]

  experiment was that plugging in the [TS]

  phone does nothing I was not prompted to [TS]

  do anything I couldn't find anything in [TS]

  any the menus that mentioned car player [TS]

  anything about carpet I could connect my [TS]

  phone by bluetooth but that's not carpet [TS]

  works it's not a bluetooth audio things [TS]

  so inconclusive results but at the very [TS]

  least merely playing my phone in did [TS]

  nothing while you were gone i'm pretty [TS]

  sure we found out that your wife is [TS]

  right the whole time and you didn't need [TS]

  to go outside [TS]

  that's thanks Sam guy on the car park [TS]

  cast who knows something supposedly your [TS]

  wife knows better [TS]

  oh I'm sure we'll get some feedback on [TS]

  this one amazingly sometimes we don't [TS]

  know what we're talking about [TS]

  he really did and this is why we should [TS]

  do a car show kids this is that people [TS]

  love when you don't know what you're [TS]

  talking about you do a car podcast [TS]

  people really like that they think it's [TS]

  not i reject this characterization i [TS]

  know a lot about what i was talking [TS]

  about you to keep saying that about [TS]

  yourselves but I reject that good [TS]

  this is this episode of speaking is [TS]

  turning turning a to be quite good I [TS]

  thought we could have like no structure [TS]

  this week there's no I mean ready to [TS]

  follow up with all those items religion [TS]

  follow-up haha doing homework and it man [TS]

  they went long sometimes salt goes long [TS]

  but you know that tends to happen after [TS]

  lots of stuff builds up and we haven't [TS]

  recorded for awhile problem the [TS]

  problematic part we have here is as we [TS]

  transition to topics go look what's [TS]

  lurking there and look at the notes very [TS]

  first item who put that in there who is [TS]

  actually on the Casey did you have done [TS]

  there [TS]

  yes I don't think I want to talk about [TS]

  that right it's just like it's the same [TS]

  thing we've been talking about for the [TS]

  last month on the show I don't feel like [TS]

  is that like I read what parts of the [TS]

  article going but stopped before [TS]

  yeah you deleted it but I've got here is [TS]

  there anything in that article that is [TS]

  not something that we've already talked [TS]

  about that's my only question [TS]

  no probably not so the article in [TS]

  question the hopefully will cut this [TS]

  from the show for the article now we're [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  yeah Chuck Vandross patch arrived [TS]

  probably pronounced that wrong I [TS]

  apologize but anyway his apple 2016 year [TS]

  in review which tldr something suck some [TS]

  things don't but it's a great post it is [TS]

  yeah I mean it's good it's a totally [TS]

  good you know that he's expressing in a [TS]

  much more succinct way the the his [TS]

  position on the issue is not necessarily [TS]

  the word how to use its value is more [TS]

  succinct in like hours and hours of [TS]

  audio but like you know where we're both [TS]

  were wrong Mac fans and we're all kind [TS]

  of experiencing some dissatisfaction [TS]

  with the treatment of the mac and we've [TS]

  talked about it at length and this was [TS]

  his take on it and it was good and it [TS]

  was articulate and it was an expression [TS]

  of his his opinion and his desires in [TS]

  his hopes and dreams and it was a good [TS]

  post but for the purposes of discussion [TS]

  the show i'm wondering if it is bringing [TS]

  any new angle [TS]

  we haven't already given our pains on 19 [TS]

  times [TS]

  yeah and since will be asked about it [TS]

  and who was that wrote this [TS]

  hold on one sec in chrisandem chris that [TS]

  yes or no matter the cost [TS]

  yeah also very good although I honestly [TS]

  I don't know if the mac pro was the best [TS]

  choice there but we're seeing that from [TS]

  a lot of people saying similar things [TS]

  this is not a coincidence this is not an [TS]

  accident this is not a a trend or people [TS]

  being wrong [TS]

  this is like legitimately apple is [TS]

  causing concern in many of its customers [TS]

  and many of its best biggest fans and [TS]

  longest time customers and so you know I [TS]

  i think if I can if I can summarize in a [TS]

  very quick way or at least like try to [TS]

  put a cap on this for now 2017 is gonna [TS]

  be a very important year for Apple to [TS]

  prove a lot of big things to to the [TS]

  market into its customers right now [TS]

  there's a lot of things where it where [TS]

  the the answer from apple so far is [TS]

  either silence or like just wait [TS]

  you know like it wait till you see what [TS]

  we have next or something like that [TS]

  20-17 a lot of the stuff is coming do [TS]

  you know that gives 2017 passes through [TS]

  the whole year and there isn't like a [TS]

  major new iphone design and there isn't [TS]

  some answers to the mac pro and there [TS]

  isn't maybe better quarterly earnings [TS]

  these are some pretty big things there [TS]

  have been bad signs on these fronts for [TS]

  the last year or so but everyone's other [TS]

  than next year or sooner this is going [TS]

  to be out sooner this is going to be [TS]

  fixed soon or the next iphone is gonna [TS]

  be great or those quarterly earnings [TS]

  were an anomaly all those promises are [TS]

  going to be do this year and we you know [TS]

  a year from now when were presumably [TS]

  still have this podcast and still doing [TS]

  follow-up we will see were all of our [TS]

  concerns unfounded where were is you [TS]

  know how how well are all these [TS]

  complaints gonna age you are we all [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  is Apple about to release over the over [TS]

  the course of the next year amazing [TS]

  things and they're gonna blow our minds [TS]

  and we're going to we're gonna feel good [TS]

  about the back again and we're gonna [TS]

  feel good about Apple's prospects again [TS]

  everything [TS]

  good about the iphone design again all [TS]

  the stuff and the number is going to go [TS]

  up and everyone the markets going to be [TS]

  happy like is that really gonna happen [TS]

  this year a bite [TS]

  we don't know yet but we'll find out and [TS]

  I really hope things go better because [TS]

  frankly if they don't I'm going to find [TS]

  us to talk about because i'm tired of [TS]

  being sad all the time of the stuff i [TS]

  love or wherever the chat room had a [TS]

  good turn of phrase which I'm going to [TS]

  slightly improve 2017 your mac OS on the [TS]

  desktop nice we're going on nice whoo [TS]

  so yeah I know Marco wanted to put a [TS]

  capper on this but unfortunately next [TS]

  item at the top of list is the one tiny [TS]

  sliver of new angle on this [TS]

  yes very old entire topic that I happen [TS]

  to that happened to occur to me and I [TS]

  tweeted earlier today was in response to [TS]

  Michael sighs he's had a series of [TS]

  articles on this on this whole same [TS]

  thing like so many other mac bloggers [TS]

  and he's an all-time mac user and he's [TS]

  feeling all the same things and one of [TS]

  his posts was on finding an alternative [TS]

  to what he calls Mac os10 but he's not [TS]

  he's not on board with their naming i [TS]

  guess and he likes to Wesley Moore's a [TS]

  post about this about you know trying to [TS]

  find i'm looking into different linux [TS]

  distributions and stuff like people are [TS]

  looking for alternatives or for Mac os10 [TS]

  there they're not looking for an escape [TS]

  patch but like at the very least trying [TS]

  to see what else is out there like [TS]

  before I was happy using the mac and I [TS]

  wasn't looking all terms but now I'm [TS]

  starting to consider like hey what else [TS]

  is that their house windows doing you [TS]

  know is linux any good let me try for [TS]

  distribution stuff like that and then [TS]

  Gruber also talked about anyway so this [TS]

  Michael signpost uh what I tweeted I [TS]

  used a little quote we feature which [TS]

  actually am starting to like this gives [TS]

  you room to actually write something [TS]

  we're also including their feet [TS]

  welcome to like two years ago job and I [TS]

  know I mean I my client has supported [TS]

  the iOS version twitter is but it's [TS]

  totally up to date but i am still my [TS]

  habits are based on the old but I'm [TS]

  talking about like not knowing when to [TS]

  move huh [TS]

  now I use it like nothing my normal to [TS]

  Twitter way would be to like I write a [TS]

  tweet and then paste the last 20 [TS]

  characters be the shortened URL [TS]

  right but by by quoting you get some [TS]

  characters back anyway what we did was [TS]

  the last time Mac users were seriously [TS]

  passing around articles like this [TS]

  articles like the one about finding [TS]

  alternatives was during the transition [TS]

  for mac OS to Mac os10 and as I had [TS]

  committed to someone else who had [TS]

  replied some replied I can't wait for [TS]

  people for the million replies they're [TS]

  going to say and now it's the transition [TS]

  for mac OS to iOS haha which yes there [TS]

  are many of those replies but you know [TS]

  what my commentary on all of this was [TS]

  analysis intentionally omitted a because [TS]

  it's winter and you don't have room to [TS]

  do that and be I like to just let this [TS]

  tweet lie because it is like a Rorschach [TS]

  test you know that the last time this [TS]

  article about this was the transition [TS]

  macro and micro spent half the people [TS]

  are going to see that and say yeah and [TS]

  what those dummies wrong because Mac [TS]

  os10 was awesome and all the people [TS]

  think the mac OS with a bunch of chumps [TS]

  and the other half of the people are [TS]

  going to say yeah that's around the last [TS]

  time the mac almost died and we came [TS]

  through by the skin of our teeth by you [TS]

  know struggling mightily to get this [TS]

  next base the West up into shipshape so [TS]

  that it's satisfying to mac users and [TS]

  then yet another group people are going [TS]

  to say yes but a lot of people like you [TS]

  didn't leave the mac then it's just that [TS]

  they were replaced by unix nerds and all [TS]

  evened out or actually was in that win [TS]

  and so many different views on how the [TS]

  US the Mac os10 transition went you know [TS]

  I i'm fairly intimately familiar with [TS]

  the Mac os10 transition so I know what I [TS]

  think about it but so many different [TS]

  people have different ideas of like what [TS]

  it was like you guys didn't experience [TS]

  this you didn't experience the [TS]

  incredible turmoil much where is a much [TS]

  worse than the current firmware using [TS]

  much much much worse of a a diet [TS]

  practically dying company certainly a [TS]

  dying us like is this is you know the [TS]

  senior parlance the windows 95 you know [TS]

  no memory protection no pre-emptive [TS]

  multitasking like trying to get from [TS]

  that world into a modern OS while trying [TS]

  to preserve something anything that was [TS]

  good about the mac totally felt like [TS]

  Apple as a company could be dying which [TS]

  is not a thing that we are currently [TS]

  worried about right now at all right [TS]

  and certainly that the mac could be [TS]

  dying along with the company because [TS]

  even if they survive what what is what [TS]

  comes out the other side of this thing [TS]

  will not be a mac it will be some stupid [TS]

  unix thing with terminal that won't be a [TS]

  mac at all [TS]

  and everything is terrible in the end [TS]

  you know I think we successfully [TS]

  navigated that transition but all of the [TS]

  participants all all the players were [TS]

  there but there wasn't much podcasting [TS]

  going on but I i can tell you that there [TS]

  were many many people who are from the [TS]

  old school [TS]

  macworld complaining just like me [TS]

  complaining of his podcast through every [TS]

  channel available to them again Twitter [TS]

  didn't exist either but like using that [TS]

  lots of arguing on usenet I'm arguing [TS]

  something awesome person named guy [TS]

  English which is totally sounds like a [TS]

  made-up name on using that about the [TS]

  merits of classic mac OS vs next I don't [TS]

  like it was on you know on the the [TS]

  nascent web and on our blogs and in [TS]

  person and in mac user groups and the [TS]

  pages of magazines and letters to [TS]

  editors about how the mac was going and [TS]

  the reason I reference that is not [TS]

  because I think we're in the same [TS]

  situation again I think that was a way [TS]

  more dire situation which gives me some [TS]

  comfort because it's like I came through [TS]

  that and we're nowhere near as bad as [TS]

  that is but but just to say that no one [TS]

  was seriously circulating check out [TS]

  these alternatives to Mac os10 in the [TS]

  circles among diehard mac users [TS]

  obviously there's always you know [TS]

  articles about like hey if you're [TS]

  thinking of using this look at this [TS]

  alternative all but within our sort of [TS]

  blogging and tweeting circles all these [TS]

  people who've been using Mac's for years [TS]

  and love it [TS]

  I haven't seen our go like this in ages [TS]

  let alone a series of them had to find [TS]

  1i have to go back to the last time our [TS]

  little community was in turmoil and that [TS]

  was when we were like all if they're [TS]

  going to do this to the mac i might as [TS]

  well use windows or i might as well try [TS]

  linux or I'm gonna leave the mac and go [TS]

  to know there was no no one said they're [TS]

  going to leave then I can go to Palm OS [TS]

  biggest that wasn't you anyway [TS]

  it gives me some historical perspective [TS]

  but it also highlights the fact that [TS]

  even though the current situation is not [TS]

  as bad as it was then is at least of the [TS]

  same type that these kinds of articles [TS]

  are are in circulation and are of [TS]

  interest to everybody even if you don't [TS]

  feel that way even if you just want to [TS]

  read it so you can sneer the people who [TS]

  are you know claiming that the sky is [TS]

  falling or whatever the fact is the [TS]

  articles are being passed around and [TS]

  people are reading on people think about [TS]

  and that hasn't happened in a long time [TS]

  how long ago was the micro [TS]

  centralization 2001 ish so we had a good [TS]

  15 years of peace and now we're gonna [TS]

  have a little bit of its not war then [TS]

  maybe at least Im and pestilence beer [TS]

  sponsor tonight by Squarespace go to [TS]

  squarespace.com start your own free [TS]

  trial site today and use code ATP to get [TS]

  ten percent off your first purchase when [TS]

  you sign up [TS]

  Squarespace make your next move so [TS]

  Squarespace is this amazing web hosting [TS]

  platform you go there to create a site [TS]

  for yourself or for other people if [TS]

  they're may have you make a site for [TS]

  them and it is so incredibly easy [TS]

  they've easy-to-use tools everything can [TS]

  be drag-and-drop [TS]

  what-you-see-is-what-you-get live [TS]

  previews everywhere its kind of it when [TS]

  you do if you know anything about web [TS]

  programming when you use squares because [TS]

  control panel it kind of blows your mind [TS]

  is even possible and any web programmers [TS]

  will know like wow this is they put a [TS]

  lot of work into this and all of that [TS]

  was in service of you the person making [TS]

  the website so that you don't have to do [TS]

  any of that stuff [TS]

  it's so good that's really not worth [TS]

  making your website anywhere else for [TS]

  almost anybody like unless you have some [TS]

  really narrow specialized need even then [TS]

  you can probably Squarespace accommodate [TS]

  somehow like it's really really [TS]

  impressive what you can do on [TS]

  Squarespace and it's so incredibly easy [TS]

  regardless of your skill level whether [TS]

  you're a novice where they are [TS]

  programmer it doesn't even matter you [TS]

  can use square space and it can save you [TS]

  tons of time and hassle and make a [TS]

  professional-looking site they have [TS]

  great designers working with them to [TS]

  make these templates and to give you [TS]

  lots of great options to customize it to [TS]

  make it your own so check it out today [TS]

  at squarespace.com if you need to make a [TS]

  website for yourself or someone else [TS]

  doesn't matter start their Squarespace [TS]

  because first of all making for somebody [TS]

  else [TS]

  Squarespace becomes their support person [TS]

  after you've made for them look and you [TS]

  know that they can start making [TS]

  themselves once you direct them there so [TS]

  you can put yourself out of the loop [TS]

  completely and get back to your life if [TS]

  you're making a life for yourself why [TS]

  waste time doing it any other way doing [TS]

  Squarespace you'll thank me later [TS]

  give it a shot squarespace.com we decide [TS]

  to sign up make sure to use offer code [TS]

  ATP to [TS]

  a ten percent off your first purchase [TS]

  make your next move with a beautiful [TS]

  website from Squarespace ah since [TS]

  clearly the mac is doomed and the future [TS]

  is not even iOS its voice tell us about [TS]

  your google home my google home [TS]

  yeah so I'd I gotta go home as a gift my [TS]

  wife / gift for the family [TS]

  it's complicated by the fact that our [TS]

  photos are you know I signed up for [TS]

  google photos using my one terabyte of [TS]

  google me back up for a second [TS]

  yeah I i heard from your wife that you [TS]

  got this google home as a gift i'm [TS]

  getting to that as a gift to her and [TS]

  impaired it to your phone i'm about to [TS]

  you know that it's not paired to the [TS]

  phone i'm about to explain this so gets [TS]

  a homer on it that it's obviously for [TS]

  you know for the whole family because [TS]

  it's in a room it's not like it one of [TS]

  us has it on their desk or something [TS]

  right [TS]

  but one of the things that it can do for [TS]

  you is you can ask it to like display [TS]

  your photos on your TV so show me [TS]

  pictures of whoever on my chromecast and [TS]

  we'll do that i don't have comcast yet [TS]

  but I plan to get when they like 30 [TS]

  bucks or whatever it's not a big deal [TS]

  and I do have hdmi ports available on [TS]

  the side of my TV so i'm going to do [TS]

  that but all of our google photos are [TS]

  associated with my google account not [TS]

  hurt even though she has the iphone with [TS]

  the photo library under 5k imac under [TS]

  her account so she owns that but Amanda [TS]

  and this is actually a feature I like [TS]

  the fact that we can cause i had one [TS]

  terabyte google storage that I used for [TS]

  other things and so when it came time to [TS]

  look at the photos i said i can run the [TS]

  google photos thing on your account on [TS]

  your 5k imac but use it [TS]

  upload all of your photos from the [TS]

  family photo library up to my google [TS]

  account storage because I'm the one with [TS]

  one terabyte of storage and so I have [TS]

  all the google photos and you could only [TS]

  associate the google home with one [TS]

  google account that is the first thing I [TS]

  i searched by googling because I saw how [TS]

  you set up okay now how do i had another [TS]

  campus you know and all the google web [TS]

  properties you can be signed into mobile [TS]

  accounts which among them and have you [TS]

  know like i thought surely that's the [TS]

  thing but immediately found out that [TS]

  google home currently is limited to [TS]

  being connected to one google [TS]

  account so it is connected to my google [TS]

  account and the reason is connected to [TS]

  my google account is because I'm the one [TS]

  with all the photos and that's one of [TS]

  the one of the few things that this [TS]

  thing can do for me so that's that's the [TS]

  limitation number one about this [TS]

  limitation number two is i mean it's [TS]

  it's a big number 20 will link in the [TS]

  show notes this article Dan Martin wrote [TS]

  about these devices and avid i look [TS]

  forward to the summary of this like I'm [TS]

  like the book jacket like John siracusa [TS]

  called google home dot a big number two [TS]

  yeah oh yeah that the number two thing [TS]

  is the basic like Amazon echo has a big [TS]

  lead and it does way more stuff right it [TS]

  just doesn't especially in terms of home [TS]

  automation of other things like it's [TS]

  been out longer it has more integrations [TS]

  and so if you're looking for something [TS]

  you could take out of the box and hook [TS]

  up a bunch of 50 different things too [TS]

  and make your actions like this is not [TS]

  that thing someone asked me on twitter [TS]

  if you had to do it over again would you [TS]

  still buy the google home and I can't [TS]

  even know i have a google home and we [TS]

  talked about doing it over again I'd [TS]

  just got the google home like I don't [TS]

  know but the reason I got it and I think [TS]

  we've talked about this before them when [TS]

  i said i was interested the reason I got [TS]

  it is because i believe in the promise i [TS]

  believe in the promise of google home as [TS]

  a proxy actuality google hormones [TS]

  product is that it's it's nice-looking [TS]

  in the echo and in some ways it it's [TS]

  better in terms of yeah i think maybe [TS]

  the speaker's a little bit better and [TS]

  it's smaller and you know it's it's a [TS]

  little bit more polished i think but I'm [TS]

  totally buying it because I believe that [TS]

  google will eventually be better at all [TS]

  the things that I care about which is [TS]

  understanding what I'm saying and find [TS]

  me find me useful information and [TS]

  answers and I do use google calendar we [TS]

  all use google calendar i use google [TS]

  from my email we have our photos on [TS]

  google in theory this has access to more [TS]

  of our stuff in the Amazon echo would [TS]

  and I subscribe to google play because I [TS]

  subscribe to google play family thing [TS]

  with to get youtube red or whatever so i [TS]

  can say things like you know I hate ok [TS]

  Google but that's what it is instead of [TS]

  Alexis I wish you could make it [TS]

  configured what i can say okay google [TS]

  play some Christmas music and guess what [TS]

  a place christmas music because it has [TS]

  access to you know they're they're [TS]

  streaming music service whereas you ask [TS]

  amazon echo do the same thing you can [TS]

  set something up to do it or you can try [TS]

  to get it to play audio on another [TS]

  bluetooth connected device and play the [TS]

  audio it's on that device or whatever [TS]

  but anyway [TS]

  so far mostly the children have been [TS]

  asking you to say things in foreign [TS]

  languages and do unit conversions i did [TS]

  use it to set timers but it is really [TS]

  limited like the one of the very first [TS]

  things I had to do was remind me two [TS]

  hours to check on the roast this is like [TS]

  on Christmas Day right and it said I [TS]

  can't set up a reminder if you sorry [TS]

  about that something like you can't set [TS]

  up reminders like you don't need to do [TS]

  this doesn't need to be network [TS]

  integration just do it right it can do [TS]

  timers set a timer for two hours for the [TS]

  roast [TS]

  ok I've set a timer for two hours for [TS]

  the roast right but remind me in two [TS]

  hours and knows that i want a reminder [TS]

  but yeah I guess it classifies them in [TS]

  the same with Apple classifieds [TS]

  reminders vs timers and it has no way to [TS]

  create a reminder in the world of google [TS]

  yet right so again I google this and so [TS]

  on a million people saying yes it can [TS]

  set reminders that maybe we'll be able [TS]

  to in the future so i really hope that [TS]

  they get cranking on the integrations [TS]

  and the functionality [TS]

  I am very impressed with his ability to [TS]

  understand my children's poor addiction [TS]

  as they yell over each other to try to [TS]

  get it to do things right [TS]

  I'm impressed with its ability to [TS]

  understand me talking from other rooms [TS]

  and mumbling and how responsive it is to [TS]

  ask me to set timers it takes me longer [TS]

  to figure out when I can start talking [TS]

  to Siri than it does to complete the [TS]

  action on the google all right was that [TS]

  just an internal frustration have the [TS]

  fanciest fastest iphone and half the [TS]

  time I'm like is it okay for me to talk [TS]

  to have to wait for the boop and then [TS]

  like I start talking then it goes boom [TS]

  and then it doesn't understand me and I [TS]

  can't reset it and have to start all [TS]

  over as I just want to talk to there and [TS]

  you mentioned Casey before serie in the [TS]

  mac that this is I think one of one of [TS]

  the things about the Amazon echo and the [TS]

  google home do so much better than Cirie [TS]

  on the Mac it's searing the mac really [TS]

  want to be worth a damn it should be [TS]

  like this two devices where I can just [TS]

  say ok Mac what's the weather like [TS]

  tomorrow no preamble no pressing the key [TS]

  know making sure the mac is ready before [TS]

  I talk just freaking said because if [TS]

  this little tiny hundred-dollar cylinder [TS]

  can do it this huge thousand [TS]

  multi-thousand dollar computer should be [TS]

  able to do that to let alone the fact [TS]

  there's no hey seriously though you [TS]

  going [TS]

  without script to make it organized when [TS]

  you say no like this is understandable [TS]

  Mac Mac has to be able to do too because [TS]

  as as Marco well knows that is the [TS]

  killer feature to be able to just [TS]

  rattled off in the air with no setup and [TS]

  no preamble and no making sure everybody [TS]

  is ready and just friggin does it and [TS]

  that's awesome right that I mean that i [TS]

  think the most important feature all [TS]

  these cylinders is really good [TS]

  microphones that can understand you from [TS]

  far away with background noise and [TS]

  incredible responsiveness and iphones [TS]

  don't have that and max don't have that [TS]

  is a damn shame so anyway google home [TS]

  it shows promise it for the things that [TS]

  can do it's very responsive i [TS]

  intentionally bought it because i [TS]

  believe in the promise of google doing [TS]

  this type of stuff really well and the [TS]

  things that it does do it does do really [TS]

  well you can phrase your engine like [TS]

  Google search you can phrase your unit [TS]

  conversions or questions about the [TS]

  weather or follow-up questions in a [TS]

  fairly natural way and it pretty much [TS]

  nails it [TS]

  it just needs more features so I'm [TS]

  patiently waiting for them to appear [TS]

  yeah I i gotta say i mean i have yet to [TS]

  see the google home but having had now [TS]

  quite a bit of experience with the [TS]

  Amazon echo these like home cylinders [TS]

  with voice stuff to connect two simple [TS]

  things like timers and weather and music [TS]

  services and home automation this is a [TS]

  real deal this category is really great [TS]

  it's a really fun and there's this [TS]

  pretty significant like you know [TS]

  land-grab going on right now mostly [TS]

  being one by amazon i am honestly kind [TS]

  of concerned that Apple's not playing in [TS]

  the space yet and I mean we've heard [TS]

  rumblings that they're working on it i [TS]

  really hope they get here soon because [TS]

  this is the time into this business that [TS]

  is that so / christmas we we got my [TS]

  in-laws an echo that was kind of funny [TS]

  like it for the last you know five six [TS]

  Christmases we've we've gotten people [TS]

  various Apple things mean I like Apple [TS]

  TV's here and there and and occasionally [TS]

  iPads for like big gifts sometimes this [TS]

  year nobody got anything by Apple like [TS]

  this year was apple had nothing to do [TS]

  with our holiday fun this year they were [TS]

  just you know we were all like using I [TS]

  think that's basically but like there is [TS]

  nothing there was no like new stuff from [TS]

  apple is here [TS]

  for us and grando the airports are big [TS]

  deal on it but you know that that wasn't [TS]

  any way that wasn't for all diseases [TS]

  anyway all the fun was playing with the [TS]

  echo and these are the end and all at [TS]

  the home automation like the bygone the [TS]

  handful of like the belkin wemo outlets [TS]

  and everything that you can switch them [TS]

  and just like this stuff [TS]

  this is where all the action is [TS]

  happening right now in like cool fun new [TS]

  technology and yeah it is it isn't like [TS]

  you know a massive business there's not [TS]

  a lot of profit to be made here mean [TS]

  amazon's already selling the echo for [TS]

  under 200 bucks and the dots are like 40 [TS]

  bucks and what's the google home like a [TS]

  hundred and fifty or something when I [TS]

  got on sales one of the reasons about I [TS]

  got a 410 929 so like you know this is [TS]

  obviously going to be like a low-margin [TS]

  business for you know probably forever [TS]

  and that's that's going to be difficult [TS]

  for Apple because I I can't see Apple [TS]

  coming in that you know under 250 [TS]

  probably you know I mean look the apple [TS]

  TV is you know in a similar boat were [TS]

  like all the competitors are really [TS]

  cheap but apple TV is still very [TS]

  expensive for you compared to them so [TS]

  anyway you know I I worry about Apple [TS]

  this business because like it's so cool [TS]

  it's so much fun these devices are [TS]

  really really awesome and but in order [TS]

  to be good I have it like they require [TS]

  two things apple very good at service [TS]

  consistency and integration with a bunch [TS]

  of other stuff i don't have to beat as a [TS]

  joke like you no sirree for all of its [TS]

  benefits and faults it one thing it [TS]

  really isn't even even people who love [TS]

  Siri I think they would usually agree [TS]

  one thing early isn't is consistent and [TS]

  you know that the echo is so incredibly [TS]

  rock-solid so anyway between Google and [TS]

  Amazon I really haven't read a single [TS]

  review of the google home that makes me [TS]

  think anybody should buy over the echo I [TS]

  honestly like I it all the reviews seem [TS]

  to say like yeah it's kind of the same [TS]

  thing but worse like I what am I missing [TS]

  here [TS]

  I mean it is i feel like it is better at [TS]

  all the same things that Google is good [TS]

  that you can type thing to do a google [TS]

  search box and lots of different ways [TS]

  and more or less figures out what you [TS]

  mean like in in the same way that you [TS]

  know the difference sweetie we know what [TS]

  Google does that thing where it's like [TS]

  it's like you're a bunch of search [TS]

  results and hear a bunch of ads but by [TS]

  the way i'm pretty sure I know what [TS]

  you're getting and here's a box at the [TS]

  top that shows like exactly what you're [TS]

  interested [TS]

  like a score of the game or like the [TS]

  answer to the trivia question you were [TS]

  asking or whatever before it even gets [TS]

  the search results that type of stuff is [TS]

  more or less exposed in a spoken way as [TS]

  opposed to like you're like 17 10 [TS]

  morning as we talked about doing the [TS]

  language translation the echo or likes a [TS]

  rather can do that as well but it [TS]

  displays the results on your on your [TS]

  phone in the ios app it doesn't speak [TS]

  them back to you so it's it's like it [TS]

  was all the things that Google is good [TS]

  at if you're interested in controlling [TS]

  stuff in your home the echo has way more [TS]

  integration if you're interested in [TS]

  buying things like forget it and that's [TS]

  amazon's brain but you might want to buy [TS]

  things by talking Amazon's got you [TS]

  covered i don't know if you can do that [TS]

  at all in Google Play what by the way [TS]

  that sounds like a stupid thing until [TS]

  you do it i'm sure you'll love it [TS]

  yeah haha once once you're like 10 you [TS]

  know once you get into the Amazon way of [TS]

  life and you start ordering like [TS]

  everything from amazon you can't like [TS]

  you can do things like say name of thing [TS]

  reorder a fridge filter and it will go [TS]

  through your order history and it will [TS]

  query it for the freezer fridge filter [TS]

  and will say do you want me to add this [TS]

  thing you know it'll read the name and [TS]

  was a here's how much it costs and [TS]

  here's you know it has four star reviews [TS]

  whatever also knows they do want to buy [TS]

  it now and you can you know you can add [TS]

  it to your cart and just do it later [TS]

  you had your shopping list or you can [TS]

  just have it say yes and place it place [TS]

  the order right then you can you can [TS]

  literally get rid of your like Iran of [TS]

  this thing or another one of these [TS]

  things you can eliminate those problems [TS]

  like without ever touching computer like [TS]

  oh my fridge filters replaced are [TS]

  getting the fridge filter two days later [TS]

  just shows up it's kind of amazing i [TS]

  also before we got this thought that was [TS]

  a ridiculous concept but once you do it [TS]

  like once and you kind of break the like [TS]

  the break the seal almost killed the [TS]

  heat you break hearts like once you do [TS]

  once you're just like oh my god this is [TS]

  kind of awesome [TS]

  why have I not been doing this and I [TS]

  think we're kind of in an apple google [TS]

  situation like the early days of the [TS]

  iphone where was like oh we have this [TS]

  nice sort of symbiosis where a apples [TS]

  going to do this awesome hardware in the [TS]

  OS and Google will do the cloud services [TS]

  like the maps and stuff and it's a [TS]

  marriage made in heaven and then they [TS]

  split it seems like they're already [TS]

  split because there are things that [TS]

  Amazon does [TS]

  better but there are also things that [TS]

  Google does better and i basically any [TS]

  kind of search for intelligence to [TS]

  figure out what you mean [TS]

  amazon can do all those things mostly [TS]

  because they have integration with [TS]

  Google or Google like services but they [TS]

  don't do themselves whereas buying [TS]

  things amazon is totally like it's all [TS]

  integrated with your amazon account [TS]

  knows your order history can do stuff [TS]

  like that it gets to you would you would [TS]

  want a home automation thing that can do [TS]

  all of these things right and the same [TS]

  way like eternity I'm as i'm probably [TS]

  has them every service under the Sun but [TS]

  google has all my photos and doesn't [TS]

  doesn't have any iphones I can't ask the [TS]

  echo to show photos of my son on the [TS]

  television you know show photos my son [TS]

  2015 on my chromecast I can't ask amazon [TS]

  to do that i mean i could maybe make a [TS]

  little skill or program or a little app [TS]

  in their little things that make it do [TS]

  but like but Google's got my stuff and [TS]

  in the same way Apple if they ever come [TS]

  up with one apples got a lot of my stuff [TS]

  to they've got also got my photos and [TS]

  you know they have my reminders because [TS]

  they use reminders on my phone and they [TS]

  have my imessages but they don't have my [TS]

  calendar because Google has that and so [TS]

  you know in some respects the best would [TS]

  be a cylinder that you talked to that [TS]

  doesn't have a horse in that race but [TS]

  integrates with all of them sort of the [TS]

  cylinder equivalent of the omniverse box [TS]

  but of course that doesn't exist so [TS]

  instead we're we have to choose silos [TS]

  have a solid has nothing except for a [TS]

  sort of cranky Syria that you can really [TS]

  talk to him by the way if they ever did [TS]

  make a cylinder can you imagine that [TS]

  they may respond to a high telephone [TS]

  which i'm not going to say every device [TS]

  in your home would go off and then maybe [TS]

  the cylinder with bloop later like they [TS]

  should just give these things different [TS]

  names or whatever else is like it [TS]

  actually is not an easy problem to solve [TS]

  what like like what when the when the [TS]

  Amazon set of products first came out if [TS]

  you had them if you have more than one [TS]

  looks they're so cheap it and you kind [TS]

  of always want one nearby so it i think [TS]

  a lot of people have or will have more [TS]

  than one which again puts a problem on [TS]

  apples strategy of probably a nicer more [TS]

  expensive one anyway so it when you have [TS]

  more than one like if both of them are [TS]

  within earshot when you say the trigger [TS]

  word you know originally they were just [TS]

  kind of both operate independently it [TS]

  eventually the software update which by [TS]

  the way everybody had to know baloch [TS]

  biggest update themselves and don't even [TS]

  tell you they just [TS]

  updates amazing but a software update [TS]

  eventually they added a thing where like [TS]

  you can give them both the same trigger [TS]

  word and now like whichever one like [TS]

  heard you best will handle the command [TS]

  and so and and you know they're I i [TS]

  believe they're also wanted to work on [TS]

  things like multi-room audio similar [TS]

  what sonos does i think google home talk [TS]

  about something like that to it will [TS]

  either they're doing it they're going to [TS]

  do it like this is actually it's going [TS]

  to ramp up quickly into a category where [TS]

  like the minimum bar to entry is [TS]

  actually you know non-trivial that's why [TS]

  I kind of like for Apple sake if they're [TS]

  going to play this business at all [TS]

  I hope they get here soon because [TS]

  there's a lot to do and the competitors [TS]

  going to keep raising that bar and [TS]

  apples you can be playing catch-up if [TS]

  they really don't don't get here very [TS]

  very soon [TS]

  I feel like Amazon even though they are [TS]

  the leader now is added quite a [TS]

  disadvantage because both Google and [TS]

  Apple have more people stuff than amazon [TS]

  the only thing amazon has for most [TS]

  people is their purchase history and [TS]

  purchases which is great for Amazon [TS]

  because they're have trying to find a [TS]

  way for you to order things by talking [TS]

  and make money that's fine but most [TS]

  people don't have all their family [TS]

  photos on their most people don't have [TS]

  big video collections up on amazon most [TS]

  people don't have their calendars and [TS]

  Amazon or their you reminders or their [TS]

  shopping list which even though it has [TS]

  these features like in other words to to [TS]

  win like you said this you have to have [TS]

  it's an ecosystem Play and Apple has its [TS]

  ecosystem google has its and you can [TS]

  argue about whose is better or whatever [TS]

  but amazon's is the least full-featured [TS]

  of all them like I and cool you know you [TS]

  have to actually integrate with them for [TS]

  you to win doesn't doesn't help the [TS]

  google logo google has a calendar if I [TS]

  can't do anything with the calendar [TS]

  which you can you can ask about your day [TS]

  and stuff like that [TS]

  google has maps data and traffic data [TS]

  like you need the integrations but it's [TS]

  easier to make those integrations if [TS]

  Apple Google actually gives a damn about [TS]

  his products that schools are the [TS]

  weaknesses historically then like I will [TS]

  try this but maybe we're not that [TS]

  interested whatever right but it's [TS]

  easier for Google to do this integration [TS]

  and then it is for amazon to get people [TS]

  to use amazon for email amazon for [TS]

  calendars amazon photo storage like even [TS]

  if they offer these services unit they [TS]

  make all these services to make world [TS]

  class versus the service to match both [TS]

  apple and Google's services then you [TS]

  have to get people to switch to them so [TS]

  there is a big disadvantage if to for [TS]

  them to ever be in the ballpark if this [TS]

  becomes an ecosystem why play [TS]

  there I guess their ace in the hole is [TS]

  like we don't have to have that [TS]

  ecosystem we will just we will try to be [TS]

  as I'm nervous as possible and give you [TS]

  away [TS]

  give people a way to make those [TS]

  integration so pay by the Amazon necro [TS]

  if you have your reminders on Apple we [TS]

  can integrate with them if you have your [TS]

  calendar on google we can integrate with [TS]

  them like that's there that's the route [TS]

  but it's certainly easier for Apple and [TS]

  Google to integrate with their own stuff [TS]

  it's just you know that they're playing [TS]

  catch-up and like it in that article [TS]

  link in the show notes that reviewing [TS]

  them like Google Amazon integrates with [TS]

  all of these amazonica rituals all the [TS]

  with all these home automation devices [TS]

  in google just integrates with these [TS]

  three but every single the one who was [TS]

  listed as announced support frugal home [TS]

  right so it's not like Google is behind [TS]

  but it's not like they're like Apple [TS]

  where they do a single sign-on thing and [TS]

  then wait six months and say the same [TS]

  three pathetic companies are the only [TS]

  ones we got for single sign-on oops like [TS]

  everybody has announced removal home [TS]

  that doesn't mean anything a lot of [TS]

  people ask for home kit to I know but [TS]

  it's the question of whether a google [TS]

  falls through on that and yeah google [TS]

  actually released a product they [TS]

  announced the product and they released [TS]

  it and it works which is way more than [TS]

  apple has done so apples clearly in last [TS]

  place and I have some faith that Google [TS]

  home will have a more illustrious career [TS]

  and life then did all the other like [TS]

  Google TV and we're still again I just [TS]

  think about the chromecast which seemed [TS]

  like this little turkey thing that had [TS]

  no future but tons of people have [TS]

  chromecast and love them and even though [TS]

  it's a very small simple thing [TS]

  now you get chromecast angle home now [TS]

  you have two pieces and they kind of fit [TS]

  together and that chromecast was already [TS]

  valuable suddenly becomes more valuable [TS]

  exhibit you home [TS]

  this is like ecosystem 101 so I do have [TS]

  some faith the Google understands that [TS]

  they can be they can be in our player [TS]

  here while Apple snoozes my amazon gift [TS]

  market takes on all marcos money every [TS]

  time he speaks $14 a time for a fridge [TS]

  filter and and and the option by the way [TS]

  the Dan Martin option is these things [TS]

  like a hundred something bucks there's [TS]

  no reason you can't have both of them [TS]

  they don't take up that much room [TS]

  anymore it's got to them as I think [TS]

  you're like three of them in this house [TS]

  there's no reason you can't have all [TS]

  them say a lot by me toilet paper and [TS]

  google translate this phrase for me or [TS]

  Google what's on my calendar today right [TS]

  it's confusing to talk to multiple [TS]

  systems but it's not that bad [TS]

  like it's not like you're making of [TS]

  three thousand dollar investment in a [TS]

  computing platform you're just buying a [TS]

  little cylinder plug into the wall [TS]

  somewhere so i'm i'm actually [TS]

  considering that as well to get both of [TS]

  them because they don't conflict it's [TS]

  fine how much the ecosystem matters to [TS]

  which one succeeds or fails or which [TS]

  ones succeed or fail i think also [TS]

  depends on what people want these [TS]

  cylinders to do like what what is the [TS]

  role this is playing for you and let you [TS]

  know like you're thinking about like you [TS]

  asked the google thing to show you [TS]

  pictures from your google photostream of [TS]

  something on your TV [TS]

  I would never do that you are doing that [TS]

  and so they obviously people have [TS]

  different needs for this kind of thing [TS]

  but you know I think certain roles are [TS]

  going to come out ahead like one of the [TS]

  like one of the things like there's a [TS]

  rumor that came out a little couple [TS]

  weeks ago about how it may be the next [TS]

  ecco might be like a tablet kind of [TS]

  thing that's really made to be a kitchen [TS]

  appliance really like because they found [TS]

  that so many people put the echo in [TS]

  their kitchens and turns out people [TS]

  really like using it in the kitchen [TS]

  while cooking so that you know it'd be [TS]

  nice to meet you have something like you [TS]

  know screen showing showing your timers [TS]

  because the tires are really popular [TS]

  thing as opposed to just like you know [TS]

  some kind of you know the audio thing we [TS]

  have now or screen is like a recipe or [TS]

  cooking or whatever else so you know [TS]

  amazon is finding their uses in the [TS]

  kitchen [TS]

  Google might find their uses in the [TS]

  living room each one could find their [TS]

  audience or it might turn out that the [TS]

  things that Google Doc amazing for [TS]

  people actually just want to use their [TS]

  phones to do those things and no one's [TS]

  really going to want their cylinders to [TS]

  do that and so Google making a bad bet [TS]

  on that and maybe people really want [TS]

  just a kitchen cylinder that plays music [TS]

  actually adding things most of the time [TS]

  maybe amazon women there who knows like [TS]

  I don't think it's a safe assumption to [TS]

  say that the ecosystems that each of [TS]

  these companies have now are a sure [TS]

  thing to guarantee the success in this [TS]

  new area because Pete we might find with [TS]

  this new area that people use it [TS]

  differently than what we initially [TS]

  expect ya is saying is it's a question [TS]

  of whether it's easier to add [TS]

  integrations are was easier to add those [TS]

  ecosystems because like having ownership [TS]

  of people's calendars and their messages [TS]

  and their purchases like those are [TS]

  things like purchases for example there [TS]

  no way Apple and Google can get that [TS]

  they can't like we're going to start [TS]

  competing retail business so we'll have [TS]

  a list of people to purchase it nope you [TS]

  want and in the same way [TS]

  amazon can't say we're going to start an [TS]

  email service and it's gonna be as big [TS]

  as gmail nope it won't and we're gonna [TS]

  have a calendaring service and it will [TS]

  be integrated into the iphone as Apple's [TS]

  calendar or with android cool you won't [TS]

  like so that the lines are kind of drawn [TS]

  along there and those things are not [TS]

  esoteric like photos calendar email [TS]

  address messages purchases those are [TS]

  fundamental those are fundamentally on [TS]

  this kind of like they have those [TS]

  squares and the Monopoly board right and [TS]

  they're not they're not going away [TS]

  it's just a question of how they're [TS]

  going to be divvied up between them and [TS]

  the the extras about the integrations [TS]

  like that with the chromecast the [TS]

  example I gave putting photos on my TV [TS]

  this is the thing I do now but i do it [TS]

  the long annoying manual way which is [TS]

  always annoying i use apple tv2 do it i [TS]

  pull up the photo library half of the [TS]

  thumbnails not show up is terrible [TS]

  experience but like that's the thing i [TS]

  want to do and relatives are over [TS]

  let's look at pictures i have them [TS]

  usually sorted into albums or smart [TS]

  albums or something like that when we [TS]

  see the picture of my wife strip [TS]

  mediterranean cruise i have all the [TS]

  setup i already have the album apple TV [TS]

  because I'd use my photos and apple [TS]

  things has that stuff and I just want to [TS]

  see them and I have to use that terrible [TS]

  remote and use a bunch of the UH of [TS]

  applications to you know make sure her [TS]

  computer's on the wake of all blah [TS]

  whereas if I could use a little [TS]

  chromecast don't have to think about a [TS]

  little cylinder to think about and just [TS]

  sit down and say show mediterranean [TS]

  cruise photos and notes from the the GPS [TS]

  tags but that I'm talking about because [TS]

  it's cool and it's really smart and even [TS]

  have to make an album that's a better [TS]

  experience but you can only do that if [TS]

  you know where to get the photos from [TS]

  and most people are not going to be sort [TS]

  of the self hackers of like well my [TS]

  photos are on a you know freebie a [TS]

  freenas thing in the basement and i [TS]

  wrote a linux server the polls they like [TS]

  no one's going to do that like you can [TS]

  with the Amazon echo you can do is [TS]

  integrations and in the beginning that [TS]

  that's kind of its impressive to create [TS]

  these Rube Goldberg machines but I still [TS]

  feel like oh especially in the subtle [TS]

  world they were in ownership of data [TS]

  dictates what kind of things you can use [TS]

  it [TS]

  for LA and I said the same way that you [TS]

  cannot tell Google's thing to order your [TS]

  new fridge things [TS]

  amazon owns that there's nothing we can [TS]

  really do about that Amazon is not going [TS]

  to be keen on letting google integrate [TS]

  with its purchases in that way so if [TS]

  that's one of the things that you want [TS]

  to do and I think it is usual thing to [TS]

  do you are the only choice you have is [TS]

  amazon and that's why I think we may be [TS]

  trapped not trapped but like faded to be [TS]

  talking to multiple semi-intelligent [TS]

  assistance referring to them by name in [TS]

  the same way that we go to multiple [TS]

  websites to do things like go to Amazon [TS]

  when I'm shopping but I go to you know [TS]

  gmail when I want to do my mail [TS]

  I sale daughter army fridge filters and [TS]

  I say Google do we have any appointments [TS]

  tomorrow afternoon because Google has my [TS]

  calendar and alexis has my purchases and [TS]

  again if these little cylinders like [TS]

  they're cheap now they're only going to [TS]

  get cheaper if they're mostly network [TS]

  based off combined with really good [TS]

  microphones and a tiny little low power [TS]

  cpu that's always listening and stuff i [TS]

  think that is it aside from any sort of [TS]

  global cooperation between these giant [TS]

  companies which is not going to happen [TS]

  talking to different things in our house [TS]

  seems to me the most likely outcome of [TS]

  all this so I I think I think we're all [TS]

  doomed to have multiple increasingly non [TS]

  cylindrical cylinders like eventually [TS]

  just be a bunch of tiny little things [TS]

  that are dotted all over our house and [TS]

  having multiple ones that will be a big [TS]

  deal thanks 143 sponsors this week [TS]

  Casper betterment and square space and [TS]

  we will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin because it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental Jonathan [TS]

  any research Marco in kc wouldn't let me [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find the show know the day [TS]

  EP die and if your twitter follow them [TS]

  is a yl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  we all saw each other this earlier this [TS]

  week actually and Marco this was your [TS]

  first probably multi-hundred mile trip [TS]

  and the Tesla is that right [TS]

  that is right it's the longest trip I've [TS]

  taken yet and the first trip that [TS]

  required a supercharger in the middle so [TS]

  how to go when I it before about the [TS]

  Tesla the the prediction i had was that [TS]

  this is going to be a car that's really [TS]

  nice and every day used to never have to [TS]

  go to a gas station and just gonna be a [TS]

  bit of a pain in the butt when I go on [TS]

  long car trips we're going to have these [TS]

  like you know have forced a half-hour [TS]

  supercharger breaks every like three to [TS]

  four hours and it's going to be a pain [TS]

  and everything else but I figured like [TS]

  that will be like I will tolerate that [TS]

  inconvenience for the awesomeness of the [TS]

  car in all the circumstances so this is [TS]

  the first trip we actually had to [TS]

  realize what it was like to to rely on [TS]

  the supercharger network for your range [TS]

  because every other I've got super just [TS]

  like twice in the past it was kind of [TS]

  optional like one time I was just [TS]

  pouring rain and I just need a break [TS]

  anyway i'm passing one so let me just [TS]

  take a break here we go coffee shop [TS]

  whatever any of the time I was more [TS]

  again like you know similar like not [TS]

  really necessary to stop for a few [TS]

  minutes anyway this is the first time i [TS]

  had to really stop for like 30 minutes [TS]

  I you know we pull up we find it was [TS]

  that it was the the Delaware rest stop [TS]

  on i-95 that you know everybody goes to [TS]

  and there's like 12 spots and half of [TS]

  them were open so I was fine you know [TS]

  pull up plug-in and we went in we all [TS]

  went to the bathroom and we all got you [TS]

  know a quick little launched from the [TS]

  crappy food places they have in this [TS]

  wonderful delaware rest stop that the [TS]

  food's the worst but it's just don't go [TS]

  to the baja fresh because you think [TS]

  about how fresh that should be good [TS]

  because real buy fresh stores are good [TS]

  but this is a buy fresh express and what [TS]

  that means is that it's a terrible [TS]

  terrible pile of garbage that has the [TS]

  baja fresh sign above it but that is not [TS]

  a real baja fresh you never ever get [TS]

  that so you know we we know had lunch [TS]

  everything and before i knew it like we [TS]

  were just like doing you know basic rest [TS]

  up before I knew it my car is like [TS]

  ninety-eight percent and I was like [TS]

  trying to rush out of there so I didn't [TS]

  hit a hundred start getting charged 40 [TS]

  cents a minute for sitting there taking [TS]

  up a spot on a separately know how how [TS]

  what were you at when you pulled in just [TS]

  ballpark [TS]

  I forget I somewhere around like 30 or [TS]

  so that i don't know how did something [TS]

  like that ok [TS]

  it was amazing like a charge up and like [TS]

  so like we were stopping anyway and you [TS]

  know like if we were like if we were [TS]

  like one of the hardcore long-distance [TS]

  drivers that like the the total time it [TS]

  takes you to get where you're going as a [TS]

  career is very important to you and you [TS]

  don't like to stop at all then this is [TS]

  not the car for you but you know if you [TS]

  if you stop anyway just like four basic [TS]

  comfort and take a break [TS]

  it's quite something else on the way [TS]

  home I had an even cooler experience I [TS]

  was really I was a little bit sick and I [TS]

  was really tired i could really really [TS]

  just use a break from driving like I was [TS]

  very I was unreasonably tired just [TS]

  because of the because i just i was sick [TS]

  and you anyway [TS]

  tiff and Adam went into starbucks to get [TS]

  some coffee and to give Adam a sandwich [TS]

  i sat in the car left the heat on and [TS]

  left the heated seat on and just took a [TS]

  nap i leave and leave the seat back [TS]

  nice i took like a 20 minute nap so here [TS]

  I was I'm like this is kind of amazing [TS]

  so my car is filling up with the fuel it [TS]

  needs for free while I sit in a heated [TS]

  nicely heated car with nicely heated [TS]

  seat in the winter and take a nap [TS]

  actually I think this is like the best [TS]

  cock through like that for long road [TS]

  trip comfort I've ever seen like I again [TS]

  I thought this is going to be some kind [TS]

  of like big hassle on long trips but [TS]

  it's only a hassle if you want to get [TS]

  there in the small amount of time [TS]

  possible but if you are more leisurely [TS]

  like we always have been and you like to [TS]

  like stop for lunch at like or you know [TS]

  stop and take a break every so often if [TS]

  that's your style of driving this is the [TS]

  best like it is but there's so much the [TS]

  best because it allows you to not only [TS]

  fill up for free and it for you take [TS]

  these breaks or intervals but like the [TS]

  process of filling up for free is way [TS]

  nicer than stopping the gas station [TS]

  oh my god it's so it's so actually [TS]

  I really quite enjoyed it and it was [TS]

  wonderful and i look forward to future [TS]

  long trips where I have to use them [TS]

  that's awesome that's somewhat [TS]

  surprising but super cool sound like [TS]

  tipsy could new cars gonna have even [TS]

  fewer miles and her old one truth that [TS]

  we are beach house car [TS]

  yeah you still that's the next that's [TS]

  the next bit of electric car anxiety [TS]

  that you have to get over just by doing [TS]

  it was your like to be sitting there and [TS]

  will be discharging it should let it sit [TS]

  there for a week i bet that's not a [TS]

  problem either [TS]

  you gotta try it well I ever did I did [TS]

  the experiment i left my car on plug [TS]

  here when we went there to kind of try [TS]

  that and end up i think it loses like [TS]

  one or two percent day so it isn't that [TS]

  big of a deal but but now I did the [TS]

  bigger problems i want for my trunk with [TS]

  sand all cheese [TS]

  look it you're going to use your car or [TS]

  is it just a piece it's just a piece of [TS]

  art that you look at their two things [TS]

  around a lot of my trunk sand and [TS]

  glitter in vacuum the sand up I promise [TS]

  you [TS]

  yeah yeah you know what i was told that [TS]

  about the glitter in my trunk when we [TS]

  had a better heavy [TS]

  yeah exactly yeah so but saying I can do [TS]

  you have a trunk liner I didn't think [TS]

  I've seen your truck at what does that [TS]

  mean it's covered in carpet I don't know [TS]

  that's a no right so you can usually by [TS]

  you can usually by like a little rubber [TS]

  thing that goes in there so you can get [TS]

  you know if it's multiple like if it's [TS]

  like some groceries back together and [TS]

  spill and get sticky stuff wherever they [TS]

  did basically you don't ruin the carpet [TS]

  in your car but also if it gets filled [TS]

  with sand [TS]

  you can take that whole rubber thing out [TS]

  turned upside down double the same [TS]

  background put in but even if you do it [TS]

  right on the carpet [TS]

  I promise you you can vacuum sand out of [TS]

  carpeting in the car it will be fine [TS]

  and finally sand in your car is a badge [TS]

  of honor if you are a beach person which [TS]

  I know that you're not but we're [TS]

  converting you're right i am a i'm a [TS]

  beach town person i like the like the [TS]

  beach town i like the beach environment [TS]

  I like the beach mindset even but I i [TS]

  still do not like sand [TS]

  I that sand is the sand is a problem and [TS]

  I nicely there i don't see how glitter [TS]

  can be such the the scourge of humanity [TS]

  that it is and and and it can like [TS]

  glitter ruin my my 328 like when I had [TS]

  that Carly I i got there is that there [TS]

  is a that Christmas which we brought my [TS]

  car upstate and it was a year where [TS]

  the wrapping paper that was in use that [TS]

  year contained glitter and the ribbon [TS]

  all contain glitter and so my entire car [TS]

  filled with glitter it never I could not [TS]

  get it all out of that car i eventually [TS]

  had to turn the car in for them to [TS]

  release it was still there and turn the [TS]

  glittery trunk better i was not actually [TS]

  find for that but they they should have [TS]

  fined me for that even I would have [TS]

  fined me for that you need to nip that [TS]

  in the bud like I'm familiar with this [TS]

  phenomenon wrapping paper with glitter [TS]

  on the outside of it [TS]

  just say no that cannot enter your house [TS]

  or someone else brings your present with [TS]

  that on it you have to like isolated [TS]

  like it's radioactive [TS]

  but by all means when you're wrapping [TS]

  your own presence do not choose that [TS]

  paper with glitter on it that is a [TS]

  terrible mistake that should never be [TS]

  allowed to happen [TS]

  setting aside cars forget about cars for [TS]

  justjust in your own home they cannot [TS]

  that cannot be allowed to because that [TS]

  was all that that caused a rule to be [TS]

  enacted that no more glitter in my car [TS]

  ever and no glitter in any part of the [TS]

  house I care about which is basically [TS]

  the office and my car its plants and [TS]

  does not like that I promise it but [TS]

  Santa just dull glitter like how is that [TS]

  not what is not did is that it's very [TS]

  small rocks [TS]

  how does it not work the same way and [TS]

  what else [TS]

  floats in water [TS]

  it's probably a reference i'm not [TS]

  getting it is i can tell when you use [TS]

  your reference voice yeah you do have a [TS]

  reference voice everybody else will [TS]

  forget that I could've tried to the [TS]

  accent goodness [TS]