0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08Hello and welcome back to Upgrade on Relay FM.
0:00:12This is episode 9. Today's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by
0:00:17Igloo, an internet you'll actually like, and The Converted by Idiom,
0:00:21a unique converter for iOS. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined
0:00:26by the man of this hour, Mr Jason Snow.
0:00:29Hello, I'm happy to be your co-host for this one hour before we all move along with our
0:00:36lives and go to other places and other podcasts.
0:00:38So if this episode goes over an hour, which the listeners will know now, I don't know
0:00:43what happens in the second hour.
0:00:44It's going to be a short show.
0:00:46I don't know who the man of the second hour is.
0:00:48Now I've cursed...
0:00:49Well, you will be the man of the all remaining hours of this podcast.
0:00:52Okay, great.
0:00:53I will cede control of being the man of the hour to you at the one hour mark.
0:00:57where the wheels really come off. Yes, yeah. That's a Bonanza style insanity that happens
0:01:04then. You want to keep it to around an hour if you can help it. Short show. So, hey Myke,
0:01:14there's some follow-up. Oh, everybody's favorite. I know, I take too much glee in having follow-up,
0:01:20but I'm just very excited that I have follow-up. First off, we talked a few weeks ago about
0:01:26the fact that I am kind of unnerved by streaming services
0:01:31because I wrote that article about how Battlestar Galactica
0:01:34was being taken off of Netflix
0:01:36and how streaming services are really convenient
0:01:39but you were kind of at the whims of the catalogs
0:01:42and you really see that in video streaming services
0:01:45but you also can see that in audio a little bit
0:01:48and I said, mostly the music stuff is just is fine.
0:01:51We had the one piece of feedback from somebody who said
0:01:54that the most successful German rapper, I think,
0:01:58pulled all his stuff off of a streaming service
0:02:00and people were upset about that.
0:02:03And I just wanted to follow up
0:02:06with some real world follow up,
0:02:07which is Taylor Swift pulled all her albums off of Spotify.
0:02:11Not only has she withheld her new album
0:02:13from streaming services,
0:02:14but I believe all of her albums were removed,
0:02:16her whole catalog from Spotify.
0:02:19And this is one of those things that I was talking about.
0:02:22This may be an outlier or this may be a sign of things
0:02:25to come that subscribing to a music service
0:02:28is really awesome because you can do a lot of discovery
0:02:30and there's just access to so much music,
0:02:32but you do risk having stuff up and vanish on you.
0:02:37And that's not cool.
0:02:39That's not fun.
0:02:40So if you enjoy Taylor Swift
0:02:42and you built a Taylor Swift playlist on Spotify,
0:02:44and it's now gone.
0:02:46So this is the challenge
0:02:50with all of these streaming services
0:02:51is the intellectual property libraries
0:02:54and the licensing agreements.
0:02:56And if you bought her albums, you have them still.
0:03:00And if you just listened on Spotify, now they're gone.
0:03:04- So is she given much of a reason for why?
0:03:07I've seen some headlines which kind of just say,
0:03:10I'm not committing my life's work to a fad
0:03:13and things like that.
0:03:15Have you read anything?
0:03:16- No, I-- - Suggest more?
0:03:18No, I-- and it's on other services.
0:03:21It's not entirely gone from all the services, I think.
0:03:26But I don't know.
0:03:27I mean, I don't know what her deal is with her record label,
0:03:31and if there are specific things that she can, say,
0:03:35take it off the streaming services,
0:03:37and I don't know what their deals are.
0:03:40I don't know.
0:03:41I mean, I think what's really interesting
0:03:42is that you've got a big star with a big hit album,
0:03:45and everybody who's expected that they could just listen
0:03:47to it on the streaming service the day that it came out have been sadly mistaken because
0:03:51her album 1989 is not available for streaming, you need to buy it and that's interesting
0:03:56and I think we're going to see more of that. I think you're going to end up seeing something
0:04:01more like a video release window where you know it's in the theaters and then it's on
0:04:08for purchase or for rental and eventually it ends up on TV. I think you might see that
0:04:12with music services where they're more about the catalog and maybe less about new stuff,
0:04:18especially from big names. So it'll be interesting to see how it goes. But the larger point was
0:04:23just that this is the downside of those services. You get a lot of convenience and a lot of
0:04:26value out of them. But one of the really consumer unfriendly things is this, that her albums
0:04:33are just gone from Spotify. They just have vanished. And it's funny that we mentioned
0:04:37and we didn't have a real high-profile example, a German rapper, I'm sorry, not quite high-profile
0:04:43as Taylor Swift.
0:04:44This is about as high-profile as it gets.
0:04:46I have found a Rolling Stone article, and basically the gist of it is, it's kind of
0:04:54summed up in this one quote from her, "I just don't agree with perpetuating the perception
0:04:59that music has no value and should be free."
0:05:02And the title of the article is about a superfan who wants to invest.
0:05:07So she's kind of basically saying if people want to give you money, you're kind of not
0:05:12allowing them to do that because the perception is all music is free on Spotify.
0:05:16And that kind of like you pay a company, not the artist.
0:05:19I think that's kind of her concern, which, you know, there's definitely some merit in
0:05:25that, you know, the idea of being like, all music is free, it has no value.
0:05:29You know, the people that made it don't deserve to be paid directly for it.
0:05:32I get that, but it feels like this will only last for so long, because this is where the
0:05:44kids are.
0:05:45So, you know, eventually, well, she can choose, but eventually she may decide that she will
0:05:51want to change that decision, who knows?
0:05:53- Yeah, but it could also push the tech people who are behind these services to change too.
0:05:58I mean, that's part of the argument here is,
0:06:01this has been a very simple,
0:06:02these services are conceived fairly simply
0:06:04by people who are not in the music business.
0:06:06These are mostly technical people
0:06:07and then they get lawyers involved and they manage,
0:06:09you know, they work with the music industry
0:06:11to make deals and things like that.
0:06:13And I've not heard any artists say
0:06:17that streaming services are good for them.
0:06:20And I get that they're good for consumers,
0:06:23but there are markets where there's such an imbalance
0:06:26between good for consumers but bad for the creators
0:06:29or producers of the material that something has to give
0:06:32because that's not something that's sustainable otherwise.
0:06:35And so for an example, like a Blockbuster, like I said,
0:06:37yeah, maybe it's a windowing system
0:06:40where the new stuff doesn't appear.
0:06:42Maybe it is a premium subscription
0:06:46that gives you access to new releases for more money
0:06:49or you can get the cheaper free subscription
0:06:52for older stuff.
0:06:53I don't know how it's gonna play out
0:06:55but it's interesting that somebody who's got clout
0:06:58because she's popular is using that to talk about
0:07:02the issues involved and to bring attention to it.
0:07:05It may have no bearing, it may not change a thing,
0:07:08but I think it's an interesting approach
0:07:11because I don't think that the current streaming service
0:07:15system is sustainable for artists.
0:07:17And yeah, the record companies are in the middle too,
0:07:20and those guys probably, ideally you'd come up
0:07:23with a system that eliminated the middlemen and just benefited the artists directly.
0:07:29Because the music industry is legendary for how these big music record companies exploit
0:07:34the artists.
0:07:36But still, I think there are challenges with this, where artists don't like the existence
0:07:44of these services and how much of that is just feeling like it devalues their work and
0:07:50how much of it is literally it devalues their work because they don't get paid.
0:07:55I think we're still too early to know what are the halo effects of streaming
0:08:02streaming music. Like what does it over time drive up concert ticket sales which
0:08:08is where these artists make the majority of their money. Probably not in Taylor
0:08:12Swift's case because I'm sure she has a very lucrative recording contract now
0:08:17because she has the ability to demand such a thing. But I just wonder if
0:08:22in five years time we realized that there wasn't gonna be any more
0:08:25money. Because we spoke about how... Do you remember I mentioned about the
0:08:29Platinum album in America? Well, Taylor Swift's the only person now to
0:08:34have done that this year, the only individual. So she is an outlier.
0:08:39And it may be that music would have stopped being sold irrespective of
0:08:44Spotify or something. Just because people would have moved to piracy which
0:08:47they were anyway. So you know I think it's too soon to tell and we'll see if
0:08:53Taylor Swift ends up like Led Zeppelin in a
0:08:57couple of years time or not. But it wouldn't surprise me if these
0:09:00streaming services end up being like Netflix which is not everything and
0:09:05not the newest things but a nice selection if you want to dip into the
0:09:10catalog but maybe not the new stuff and they do that specifically to try and
0:09:14drive sales of the new stuff and you're right maybe that doesn't work maybe
0:09:17people just pirated but I don't know it'll be interesting it'll be an
0:09:21interesting to watch Brian Hamilton in the chat room pointed out that she wrote
0:09:25an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal we'll put the link in the show notes I
0:09:29in fact I already have but the the real way to read that article is to Google
0:09:34for Taylor Swift the future of music is a love story and then click on the
0:09:40search results because the Wall Street Journal will let you read it then and
0:09:43otherwise they won't. Give it a shot. Just Google that. Anyway that was good that was good good real
0:09:52world follow-up for a topic from a previous show. I wanted to mention the
0:09:56true sign that that we have made it as a podcast Myke. Is there now two... I'm not
0:10:05sure I'd call them parody accounts there are two Twitter accounts paying homage
0:10:10to this podcast. It's true. This is a monumental day. Truly we live in
0:10:20interesting times. So @ahoy_telephone is out there occasionally
0:10:26barking commands to its telephone and I love this _manchego FM is now
0:10:34out there for all of your Manchego cheese needs. So that's a tasty cheese.
0:10:41Of which there are many.
0:10:43Of which, yeah. And I think they're going to have some sort of fundraiser to get you
0:10:47some Manchego.
0:10:48There's been, I don't think we have any because it's kind of, we didn't need to cover it,
0:10:53but we had quite a bit of Manchego cheese related follow up.
0:10:56Yes. Yes. I didn't put that in the show notes. Suffice it to say, many people are trying
0:11:03to get Myke some Manchego from Spain, which is just nearby. You don't have to go far at
0:11:11all to get there. No, not at all. To Spain. You should probably jump on a train. Sure.
0:11:18And then maybe another train. Yeah, you'd probably have to change trains at some point.
0:11:22Then another train. After, yeah. But I'd get there. You could get there eventually. Take
0:11:26bike, ride your bike through the countryside. I have a really nice bit of Kindle follow-up
0:11:34from a listener who is, I've actually been on a podcast with this gentleman, it's Anzej
0:11:38Tomic, he's from, okay he's not from Croatia, he's from Slovenia, but he vacations in Croatia
0:11:48a lot and he said when the first Kindle 3G was made available they weren't in the EU and that
0:11:53meant insane roaming charges. So he actually used his 3G Kindle to browse
0:11:58and write email in Gmail on the experimental browser. It was slow and
0:12:03awkward but nothing compared to the roaming charges. So he says it's not a
0:12:07common use case but it was a way for him to get on the internet
0:12:12internationally without paying an arm and a leg. And he still uses this
0:12:17Croatia's in the EU so it's not so bad but in Serbia the same applies so when
0:12:23he goes to Serbia he can use that until they eventually enter the EU. So I thought that
0:12:28was really great from Anje who does a great podcast called Storming Mortal in English
0:12:35and then he's also got a podcast I believe in Slovenian but that's a very limited audience
0:12:41because there's only like four million people who speak it I think.
0:12:44So the funny thing is like we've had shows like when Bionic was on Five by Five it was
0:12:49number one in Slovenia like overall because Anse spoke about it. Yeah that
0:12:55was that was Anse's own yeah that's exactly it well he has that power.
0:13:00He controls it. He's like the godfather of iTunes in Slovenia. Very nice very
0:13:06nice fellow AtomicXX on Twitter is his user account name I think.
0:13:13Atomic XX because he is he's a Tomich so he's atomic it's pretty cool anyway
0:13:20thank you to him for that also some Kindle follow-up from listener Brian who
0:13:26we talked about auto loading books onto all your Kindles and he pointed out a
0:13:32good reason why you wouldn't want to do that which is your entire family has
0:13:36Kindles and you buy a book and you don't want to force that book onto everybody's
0:13:39Kindle, I suppose that is, that's fair. But he points out something that is actually,
0:13:45as somebody who just got a Kindle is a gripe that I have too, which is when you upgrade
0:13:49to a new Kindle, you can't just point it at the library of the old Kindle, like in the
0:13:53cloud and say, just give me all of the things that were on that other, there's no migration
0:13:58to a new Kindle. You have to like either copy the files off via USB and put them back or
0:14:03you have to just sort of manually go through and download them again. And that he's right.
0:14:09silly. In the grand scheme of things it's not the worst thing because it only
0:14:11happens when you buy a new Kindle but it's dumb and Amazon should probably do
0:14:16better. Have you been enjoying a new Kindle? I have been. I've been I've been
0:14:20reading I finished I finished a book I started another book. You published a
0:14:24review as well? I did Six Colors my review is up now it was just dating I
0:14:30think I've written it last week when we talked but hadn't added some things to
0:14:33it and and Scott read it after he was on the show and and he said I can't believe
0:14:39you even considered sending it back and I said well I didn't strongly consider
0:14:43it but I did consider it because it was not as big a change as as I as I
0:14:48expected but it's nice I like it and yeah I continue to read it but as was
0:14:52established last week Scott is the he's the wrong person to talk to about such
0:14:56things because no they could do nothing we just changed the name
0:15:03I'll buy it. Yeah, it's his, he collects Kindles. It's a hobby that he has.
0:15:10Also, we were talking about different tools, like there's a tool that lets you convert
0:15:14EPUBs to, it does a lot of things, but one of the things it does is it'll convert EPUBs
0:15:18into Mobi files that the Kindle can read. So if you've got an EPUB, you can put it on
0:15:22a Kindle, even though it doesn't read that format, you can just convert it. And this
0:15:26is a tool that for years and years and years, I called Calibre because it's spelled Calibre,
0:15:31c-a-l-i-b-r-e. And in the last year I keep hearing people calling it Calibre and I thought
0:15:38wow that is terrible that I have been mispronouncing that name all these years. And so last week
0:15:42I referred to it as Calibre and listener Jeff points out that in the in the Calibre documentation
0:15:48it makes it clear that it's pronounced Caliber and not Calibre. So don't do that and listener
0:15:54Jeff also says hashtag how should I pronounce this hashtag GIF is still GIF or is it hashtag
0:16:01GIF is still GIF. I don't know. Anyway, it's one of those.
0:16:07I did hear you say it and thought, "That's definitely caliber." But I gave it to you.
0:16:14I thought other people knew better than me after all that time. It's like, "Well, they
0:16:18must know that why would you ever choose to pronounce it that way if that wasn't the name?"
0:16:21And it turns out, I'm not going to name names of who I heard, but some fairly knowledgeable
0:16:25people about ebooks referred to it that way. And I was like, "Well, that sounds... It certainly
0:16:28sounds fancier than Calibre. So let's go with Calibre. No, it's not, it's just Calibre.
0:16:34It's fine. It's a cool little utility. The UI is pretty atrociously ugly, but you know,
0:16:41it works really well. So for converting ebooks and stuff, I'd definitely say check it out.
0:16:47There's even a plugin that'll let you take your Kindle books and convert them to other
0:16:50formats which is technically illegal because it's subverting the DRM, but you can do it.
0:16:56It's a pretty high Calibre product.
0:16:59- It is, it is.
0:17:00I've rarely seen a product if it's Calibre.
0:17:03(laughing)
0:17:05So two more tweets and then we're done with a follow-up.
0:17:11Listener Rick wrote in just to point out
0:17:14and that we had heard a few of these.
0:17:16I just wanna say it again.
0:17:17PowerMax is a great company.
0:17:19I've been buying and trading in my Max with them for years.
0:17:24I got a few people, somebody said,
0:17:25I can't believe Jason has never heard of PowerMax
0:17:28or doesn't know what they are.
0:17:28I actually have heard of PowerMax,
0:17:30but this is one of those funny things
0:17:31about being on a podcast, which is,
0:17:33I'm hesitant in the moment to just endorse something.
0:17:38If we're talking about, what I didn't want to have happen
0:17:40is that I misremembered, and the company that I thought
0:17:44I was talking about was not the company,
0:17:46and we ended up recommending
0:17:47some shady fly-by-night company
0:17:49for buying remaindered old Macs on the podcast.
0:17:53And so a lot of times when information like that comes up,
0:17:56and I'm not 100% on it while we're recording a podcast,
0:17:59I will kind of demur.
0:18:01I will back up a little bit and be like, oh, maybe,
0:18:05I don't know, rather than just agreeing.
0:18:08Because there is a risk that if you say it
0:18:10and you're totally wrong that bad things could happen.
0:18:13So sometimes that happens.
0:18:15And that's just the thing about podcasts
0:18:16being kind of a first draft of your thoughts
0:18:20and different than when you're writing something down
0:18:22you spend time checking, you know, we're just talking and recording this and then
0:18:25we'll post it and people will listen to it. So I actually, when I looked at the
0:18:29site a little bit more I was like, oh yeah, I remember these guys, but at the
0:18:32time it was happening fast enough that I didn't want to give an endorsement and
0:18:36then have it be totally wrong for something that involved like buying
0:18:39buying hardware because, you know, I'd like to have some idea of who the people
0:18:44are before I say yes, give them thousands of dollars. So I may not need PowerMax
0:18:50anymore. Ah yeah, let's take this as a this. Now we're in the mic's computer
0:18:55vertical of the show, so tell me what's going on with you. So our good
0:19:01friend, our mutual friend Mr. Marco Arment has recently been testing various
0:19:05different microphones and USB interfaces and he's gonna he's gonna write it up
0:19:13for his site, I believe, so I'm not gonna spoil it but we've been
0:19:17talking because I have a vested interest in these things as well and he has
0:19:23suggested to me to get a different interface than the one I currently have
0:19:27which is a USB interface because he has tried it out with my microphone and the
0:19:33microphone he uses and he suggests it and therefore I may be changing to a USB
0:19:41interface which means I will no longer be restricted by the audio in audio out
0:19:46because I won't have the option but the USB interface looks like it would do a
0:19:50much better job at like a mere fraction of the size of the one that I currently
0:19:56have so I may I may change to to that or I'm at least going to get one to try it
0:20:02out because it's not that expensive really and then I may I may completely
0:20:07I may go in a completely different direction I may even go with Retina
0:20:10iMac who knows but I it will open up a little bit more to what I'll be able to
0:20:17buy and I won't be restricted to just getting a now old Mac Mini. You could use
0:20:22your your retina MacBook Pro. Yeah I still don't want to do that but yeah I could do
0:20:28that if I wanted to I could do in a pinch I could but I'd still I'd still
0:20:31want a separate machine I like the idea of having a separate machine. All right I
0:20:36I thought you were gonna say that Marco's Mac Pro
0:20:38is on the market.
0:20:40- Oh yeah, I think it is, but I don't know if I want that.
0:20:45I thought about it 'cause I'd seen him,
0:20:48I'm sure I'd seen him somewhere say about
0:20:49how much he was selling it for,
0:20:50and it looked like an okay enough deal,
0:20:52but then I'd have to get it here,
0:20:54and that's where I would lose all of the money,
0:20:57and then could just buy a new one if I really wanted it.
0:21:00So yeah, basically I'm not gonna buy anything yet
0:21:04because I don't know what decisions I'll be making soon.
0:21:08- Okay, so we'll come back to this.
0:21:10What you're saying is that you should stay tuned
0:21:11for the next episode of what Myke's computer choice is,
0:21:15vertical, inside, upgrade. - Yeah, it's the
0:21:16computer choice vertical.
0:21:18- Okay, good, all right, we'll keep an eye.
0:21:22I used, at Macworld, we had a FireWire mixer
0:21:26for a long time, and then we went to a USB mixer.
0:21:29That was fine, that was fine.
0:21:33The audio stuff is like a hole that you can go down
0:21:36and never get back out.
0:21:37You could literally go down in that hole forever
0:21:40about like different processors and different microphones
0:21:43and different interfaces.
0:21:45And I'm sure there are, I mean, musicians do that,
0:21:48but I'm sure the podcasters,
0:21:50there are some podcasters down in that hole too.
0:21:53So I see that I'm, you know, I actually had this,
0:21:57this is not follow-up, but I had this happen.
0:22:00I've been trying for a long time now
0:22:01to figure out the best workflow to make sound effects
0:22:05in a podcast that's happening on Skype.
0:22:06Now you have a podcast that has sound effects, don't you?
0:22:10- Yeah.
0:22:11- So how do you do that?
0:22:13Are you doing that analog?
0:22:14Are you mixing that in?
0:22:15- I am, I am.
0:22:16- Yeah, so I figured it out
0:22:19and it involves a piece of unreleased software.
0:22:22I think it's announced, but not yet released.
0:22:24So I don't know if I should even talk about,
0:22:29well, anyway, so there's a piece of unannounced software
0:22:31or unreleased already announced software
0:22:34and a piece of software called SoundSiphon.
0:22:37And if I use those together with the Soundboard app,
0:22:40I can get it to work.
0:22:41So I'm excited about that,
0:22:42that I can actually do an all software sound effects
0:22:46over Skype thing.
0:22:48So I'll mention that some more, I think,
0:22:51when that product is finally released.
0:22:53It's been sort of touted for about a year now as coming out
0:22:56and it is going to come out at some point,
0:22:58but it's not out yet.
0:23:00So I should probably wait and not get into the details.
0:23:03But I did figure that out and that was exciting.
0:23:05So, you know, that was my big step up
0:23:07is doing it all in software
0:23:09because the Mac's software sound stuff is not great.
0:23:14- I'm very interested in that
0:23:15because the setup that I have would not work
0:23:19if I changed interface.
0:23:21'Cause I kind of have this really weird way
0:23:24of like taking the audio.
0:23:25This is one of the reasons I want audio in, audio out.
0:23:27I take the audio from the Mac, pass it into the mixer,
0:23:32and then back in again.
0:23:33- That's what we did in Macworld.
0:23:35We had the microphone or the headphone jack
0:23:38going into the board.
0:23:40- Yep, that's what I have.
0:23:41That's how I do it.
0:23:42- Yeah, so you're just capturing your system audio.
0:23:45- Yep.
0:23:45- And yeah, yeah, that's what we did too.
0:23:48But it can be done.
0:23:49So we'll follow up on that one in a future show too,
0:23:51'cause I would like to talk about some podcasting stuff.
0:23:55But I wanna wait for that app that isn't out yet to be out
0:24:00so that I can recommend it and endorse it and all of that.
0:24:04- Is it definitely coming out?
0:24:06- Yeah, I'll just say,
0:24:08there's a new version of Audio Hijack coming out
0:24:10and Rogue Amoeba has talked about it
0:24:11and they've shown some glimpses of the interface
0:24:13and I've been using it for a while and it's fantastic
0:24:16and I can't wait for them to ship it.
0:24:18And when that happens,
0:24:19we'll talk about other ways of using it
0:24:22'cause it's great.
0:24:24but it's not out yet.
0:24:25So there's no point other than me going in
0:24:29and I've got the new audio hijack.
0:24:31It doesn't do any good for anybody,
0:24:32but they're working on it.
0:24:33It looks great.
0:24:34It's gonna come out
0:24:35and then we can talk about it some more.
0:24:37Really quick follow up from listener Brad,
0:24:42which is just,
0:24:42we were talking about TestFlight the other week.
0:24:45And he asked if we could talk a little bit
0:24:47about having a beta app from TestFlight
0:24:49and how it interacts with the released version.
0:24:51My understanding is that it just overwrites it.
0:24:54It knows the app ID.
0:24:57And unless the developer is running the beta
0:24:59on like a different ID,
0:25:00I think it just overwrites it.
0:25:03And so like when I upgraded my Twitter-ific
0:25:06to the beta in TestFlight,
0:25:09it was still in my doc where I leave it.
0:25:12It's still there with the little circle,
0:25:14the little orange or whatever it is,
0:25:15circle next to it that says it's a beta.
0:25:17So it just does it, boom.
0:25:21it just pops it right in there.
0:25:22It knows it's the same app, even though it's a beta.
0:25:25- There is an interesting thing I've noticed
0:25:27that there's like a ticking clock on all of them.
0:25:30You know, it has like 30 days.
0:25:31- Oh yeah, 30 days.
0:25:32You can't just have an endless beta,
0:25:33which is probably good.
0:25:34I've run betas accidentally for a long time after.
0:25:38That's not good.
0:25:39So I think that's kind of cool,
0:25:42that you can either be on the beta train
0:25:44and getting the new betas or the beta will expire
0:25:46and you need to go back to the App Store version.
0:25:49And then there was just one last piece of follow-up,
0:25:53which is an interesting one, because this is from S Williams, Scott Williams,
0:25:58and he mentioned about how it took 24 hours from uploading a build
0:26:03to passing it for review for a test flight beta,
0:26:05but in his opinion, that's too long.
0:26:07And that's interesting, because I hadn't thought of it that way.
0:26:09We've been previously saying, "Oh, how great, you know,
0:26:1124 hours is perfectly fine," but maybe you just want to get it out immediately,
0:26:18which is what you're used to. So 24 hours is 24 hours longer than 10 seconds.
0:26:23You know? Right. And I just thought it was a really interesting way of looking at it. Like, yes,
0:26:29yes it is only 24 hours. However, 24 hours is, you know, that's a day longer than you would have had
0:26:36to wait before. You get all of the extra features of that. And, you know, hockey app is still out
0:26:43there, so people can still use hockey if they want the completely third-party approach there.
0:26:46The idea of Apple's test light is that it's got all these other advantages going for it,
0:26:53including the linking it to an ID instead of a device ID.
0:26:57But yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it goes and if it settles down over time and
0:27:01if the stories we heard about it, the first approval taking a few hours or a day and then
0:27:07future approvals being almost instantaneous.
0:27:10Anyway.
0:27:11I do think though my experience remains like that it is superior I think in some ways.
0:27:18It's just easier, it's so much easier and I feel like the apps that I'm currently testing on,
0:27:24they're issuing new builds as quick as, as frequently as when I've been on hockey or on the previous test flight.
0:27:32And there are a lot of simple things that I quite like.
0:27:37Alright, so that's half an hour of follow-up, half of my hour of being the man of the hour
0:27:42is now gone, but I think, in order to, before we move on to a topic, I, Myke, I would like
0:27:48to hear from a friend. I need to hear from a friend right now.
0:27:52The actual people behind this app are a friend. Me and Jason had eaten breakfast at Ool with
0:27:59Hans, who is from Idion. Now, Idion are the makers of an app called The Converted, which
0:28:05is a fantastic name for an application.
0:28:08And this episode of Upgrade is brought to you by the app.
0:28:10The converted is a unique unit converter for iOS.
0:28:15This app is the best way to convert numbers
0:28:17since the measuring cup, as it's based on that very thing.
0:28:21The measuring cup in your cupboard,
0:28:23with markings for ounces, liters, tablespoons, et cetera,
0:28:27or the thermometer on your wall,
0:28:29both represent information in a scale, right?
0:28:31So they have this scale that you can look up
0:28:33and you convert the unit conversions
0:28:35by looking at the scale.
0:28:36They give a very clear and highly visual representation
0:28:39of how units relate, and developer Idion realized
0:28:43that this might work for other types of units too,
0:28:45so they made the converted.
0:28:48The converted is perfect for getting a quick conversion
0:28:50of units when you're abroad, working with people overseas,
0:28:53or you just want some sort of quick unit conversion.
0:28:56You get a real easy sense of how currency can be related
0:29:01between US dollars and Euros for example,
0:29:04but also for things in the metric or imperial system too.
0:29:07There's a total of 481 units that you can use,
0:29:10including all currencies and hundreds of others
0:29:13across 21 different categories like power,
0:29:16energy, fuel consumption, and more.
0:29:19This is all done without the need of a keypad.
0:29:21It's a real great interface,
0:29:22which is clearly designed for iOS
0:29:24that features swiping and zooming
0:29:26and loads of pinch navigation gestures.
0:29:28You basically open the app
0:29:30and you can set the category you want,
0:29:32like you can pinch apart to select the categories,
0:29:35and then you're shown, I'll use the easy ones,
0:29:38so US dollars to Great British pounds.
0:29:41So if US dollars on one side,
0:29:42Great British pounds on the other side.
0:29:43And you see on like a scale how they relate to each other.
0:29:47So like 400 US dollars is 200 pounds, for example.
0:29:52You kind of see them next to each other,
0:29:55and you can zoom in, and as you zoom in,
0:29:57like the gaps between the numbers get smaller and smaller,
0:29:59instead of it being like gaps of hundreds, it's gaps of tens, all the way to one.
0:30:03And you just scroll up and down and you can very easily and visually just see how the two things compare.
0:30:08You don't need to enter in a keyboard or anything like that.
0:30:10It's really a great way to just jump in and get a quick sort of comparison between two different units.
0:30:16It also cleverly uses location awareness and this helps you find the currency you're looking for when you're abroad.
0:30:21When you're in Spain finding some Manchego cheese, you can very easily find out what the Euro is to the dollar.
0:30:27So you can buy your main Chico Cheese at a good price.
0:30:30And the converted has recently been updated to the TodayView extension.
0:30:33It shows the most current conversion that's in the app.
0:30:36So it's just a quick way of getting that and then you're right there in your TodayView
0:30:39and you can jump right into the app by just a tap.
0:30:42The converted is available in the App Store right now as a universal app.
0:30:46And you should go check it out by going to theconverted.co.
0:30:50Thank you so much to the converted by Idion for supporting this show and RelayFM.
0:30:54fan. So there we go. Thank you so much. They are a friend. They're a new friend.
0:30:59Yes, they are. A new upgrade friend. Mm-hmm.
0:31:04Okay, well, Myke, how would you like to spend the next half hour?
0:31:10However you want, sir. I thought we would talk, so okay. I got my
0:31:17my retina iMac last week while I was in Arizona and it sat in a box in my office for four
0:31:25days. And I told people this and they didn't realize that I wasn't at home and they're
0:31:30like, "I'm amazed by your self-restraint that you haven't taken out of the box already."
0:31:34It's like, "No, no, no, you don't understand. I'm hundreds of miles away from it." And sure
0:31:37enough when I got home within five minutes that box was open.
0:31:41It's not self-restraint, it's location restraint.
0:31:44That's right. This is one of the great ways to practice self-restraint is drive yourself
0:31:47or fly yourself somewhere far away and then you've got the restraint.
0:31:51It's like not buying stuff that's bad for you at the store.
0:31:55Like you know, if it's in, and this is true for me, if it's in the house, if it's in the
0:31:58cupboards, the refrigerator, I'm in deep, deep trouble.
0:32:03But I have no problem just not buying it at the store.
0:32:05I have good supermarket willpower, but bad refrigerator willpower.
0:32:10So this is a little bit like that with me and electronics.
0:32:13Like if there's a gadget in the house, in a box, I just have to open it.
0:32:17I can't, I have to open it right then.
0:32:20So I did when I got back on Thursday and set it up.
0:32:23And I, you know, I'm now speaking to you,
0:32:25I'm sitting at my desk and I've got this,
0:32:27I've got the iMac sitting here and it's all hooked up
0:32:30and going great.
0:32:31So I took a picture because what's interesting about it is
0:32:34after using the review unit from Apple,
0:32:36which was just a standard stock configuration iMac,
0:32:40I went back, I put that,
0:32:42I moved that to the table behind me
0:32:44and put my laptop setup back up,
0:32:46which is a 24 inch Dell monitor on an ARM
0:32:49and my MacBook Air in a 12 South Bookarc.
0:32:54And I hooked it all back up.
0:32:57And I had that moment of, "Oh, this isn't retina."
0:33:00But also I had that moment of, "Hey, my desk is back."
0:33:03Because the iMac with its foot sitting on the desk
0:33:06and you usually have it fairly close
0:33:08to the front of your desk, or at least I do.
0:33:11I have this whole nice desk behind it
0:33:13that is completely invisible when I'm sitting at my desk
0:33:16because the iMac is just dominating and it's like a wall
0:33:19and there's a little bit of space underneath,
0:33:20but you can't really see it.
0:33:22And I had that moment where I realized,
0:33:25I'm really liking having my monitor on an arm,
0:33:28which I've had since I set up this desk,
0:33:30I've had this 24 inch Dell monitor floating on an arm.
0:33:34And I really liked that.
0:33:36So I bought the iMac with the VESA mount on the back
0:33:40instead of the foot.
0:33:42And my thought process there was pretty simple
0:33:44is we talked about the idea of,
0:33:46could you convert an iMac into a Visa mountable thing?
0:33:49And there are adapters for that,
0:33:50but the foot just kind of floats in the air.
0:33:54'Cause it doesn't, you can't take it off.
0:33:55It just kind of is floating there.
0:33:57And I thought that was kind of dumb.
0:33:58And I realized that if at the end of the day,
0:34:01this iMac goes somewhere and needs to have a stand
0:34:06and sit on a stand, they make Visa mountable stands.
0:34:10You just put on, you know,
0:34:11it's a stand that attaches to the Visa mounts
0:34:13and then you've got to stand for the computer.
0:34:15So that probably is its fate one day.
0:34:18But for now I've got it on this arm,
0:34:20the same arm that I got when I got the desk
0:34:22and attached the Dell monitor to,
0:34:23took four screws, screwed, you know,
0:34:25unscrewed the one monitor and screwed on the iMac
0:34:28and I had to increase the tension on the arm a little bit
0:34:31'cause the iMac is definitely heavier
0:34:33than the Dell monitor was.
0:34:35So after that and talking about putting the iMac
0:34:39on an arm versus not, I thought I would take a picture.
0:34:41So I took a picture and put it on Twitter and just said,
0:34:44I'm acting on an arm and proceeded into something
0:34:49that only Twitter can do,
0:34:50which is the like Zapruder film like analysis
0:34:54of every object.
0:34:56I knew it was gonna happen,
0:34:57but of every single object that is in that picture.
0:35:01- Well, I'm gonna do that to you now.
0:35:02So people can get the audio version of such a thing.
0:35:07I had a couple of questions.
0:35:11The main question I had is,
0:35:13is the iMac not too close to your face?
0:35:18- Well, when I took that picture,
0:35:21it was not in a real working setup.
0:35:24Like my old laptop is still there because I'm attached.
0:35:28You can actually see the white thunderbolt cable
0:35:31coming out of the laptop and going into the iMac
0:35:34'cause I was doing my migration.
0:35:35And I literally had nothing else to do
0:35:37because I was migrating and my old system
0:35:40of my new system were both inaccessible,
0:35:41so I tweeted pictures instead.
0:35:43So normally I think it would be,
0:35:46I'm still trying to work out exactly
0:35:48what the right position is, but yeah,
0:35:49it's partly I think that picture is not accurate
0:35:53about the geometry there, and partly I think
0:35:56that it's a little too close.
0:35:59That was not an actual workspace.
0:36:02At some point I should probably take a picture
0:36:03when I get this all settled of my actual workspace
0:36:06as I use it every day,
0:36:09but that wasn't what this was meant to reflect.
0:36:11So yeah, I think it's probably a little bit too close.
0:36:15It's much further away from me right now
0:36:16as I record this than it is in that picture.
0:36:20- And so now you're using the Retina iMac, right?
0:36:25So you've been using it for a few days,
0:36:27so you maybe don't have a sense for this yet,
0:36:30but obviously when you were using the MacBook Air plugged in
0:36:35the MacBook Air was driving everything,
0:36:36so that's where everything was.
0:36:38So when you now are away from the desk and you're working,
0:36:44so maybe you're on holiday or something like that,
0:36:47are you not concerned that those two machines
0:36:51will now be kind of out of sync of each other?
0:36:54- Yeah, I have not really used the MacBook Air
0:36:57since I migrated, and so I think that's the question.
0:37:01My plan is that it's for travel,
0:37:02And also like, if I wanna do something,
0:37:05I'm hoping that this will let me do a little bit more
0:37:08of the I'm closing the door, I'm not in the office.
0:37:11And then if I wanna do something on laptop,
0:37:13be like write a, work on my novel or something like that,
0:37:17that I could do that on the air and also travel with it.
0:37:19So I haven't worked through all the changes,
0:37:21but I'm gonna use Dropbox
0:37:23because that's mostly what I use anyway.
0:37:24And I'll put key files in Dropbox.
0:37:26And it is essentially an out of date clone of my iMac now,
0:37:31because that's where it migrated from.
0:37:34So it's got all the stuff.
0:37:36And yeah, that'll drift a little bit over time.
0:37:38And I'll probably delete some stuff over
0:37:39on the MacBook Air because there's no point
0:37:42in having it there.
0:37:43But I already use Dropbox for a lot of stuff
0:37:45and put most of my key stuff in Dropbox.
0:37:47So like most of the stories I write,
0:37:48I save them into Dropbox while I'm working on them.
0:37:51So if I went and opened up that laptop,
0:37:54Dropbox would sync and I would have that story on Dropbox too.
0:37:57And actually my BP edit application support folder
0:38:00is in Dropbox, because that's supported by BB Edit.
0:38:03So even the BB Edit preferences and clippings
0:38:06and things like that stay in sync across the machines.
0:38:09I used to do that.
0:38:10I used to have an iMac at work.
0:38:12And I had my MacBook at home.
0:38:15And so I used to be in a scenario like this,
0:38:18where I used Dropbox a lot for things like stories
0:38:23I was working on and stuff like that.
0:38:25- Is that an Apple remote on the desk?
0:38:28- Yeah.
0:38:30Somebody who was, I think Dave Zatz, Zatz not funny,
0:38:33noticed that, yeah.
0:38:36Yeah, that's the white Apple.
0:38:37I do have some of the silver Apple remotes,
0:38:38but this is just,
0:38:39I have like 10 of these little white Apple remotes.
0:38:41So that's what that is.
0:38:42And there's a reason that's there, Myke.
0:38:44If you look sort of in the far corner of the desk,
0:38:46you may see an interesting object.
0:38:48- An iPod Hi-Fi.
0:38:50- It is an iPod Hi-Fi. - I just thought it was
0:38:51a box. (laughs)
0:38:52- No, that's an iPod Hi-Fi.
0:38:54As I think I mentioned on the show before.
0:38:56- You did, I remember.
0:38:58I have an iPod Hi-Fi with the AUX,
0:39:00it has an AUX in plug on the back.
0:39:02So even though the dock connector
0:39:04uses the old FireWire charging method,
0:39:07and so even if you've got a thing with a dock connector,
0:39:09it won't actually charge it unless you use another adapter,
0:39:13which is not, I mean, just forget it,
0:39:14but there's an AUX port on the back.
0:39:16So I just have a plug plugged into the iPod Hi-Fi.
0:39:21And then I actually, for the MacBook Air,
0:39:23I had this Belkin Thunderbolt dock,
0:39:26And I'm still using it because I bought it
0:39:29for the MacBook Air because it gave me gigabit ethernet
0:39:33and video, like video out and USB ports
0:39:38and just, and audio out and all this stuff
0:39:41where I could just plug all of the cables
0:39:43into the Thunderbolt dock.
0:39:45And only, I only had to plug one thing.
0:39:48I plugged power and the Thunderbolt cable
0:39:51into my MacBook Air.
0:39:52And then that was it.
0:39:53the monitor turned on, all the USB lit up,
0:39:56the audio out was set, it was great.
0:40:00And it's plugged in, the audio out on the Thunderbolt dock
0:40:04is plugged into the iPod Hi-Fi.
0:40:06So that's what I use to play music and stuff while I work.
0:40:10And sometimes when I'm editing podcasts too,
0:40:12rather than putting on headphones,
0:40:14I'll just have the audio going and do that.
0:40:17And I'm actually still using that with the iMac,
0:40:20mostly out of clutter.
0:40:22I'm gonna try to reduce my cable clutter,
0:40:24which is another thing people noticed in this picture.
0:40:28And then the cool thing since I have the Thunderbolt dock
0:40:30is it's the same thing.
0:40:31I have one black Thunderbolt cable running to the iMac
0:40:35instead of multiple USBs and an audio plug
0:40:40and an ethernet plug.
0:40:42And I'm actually thinking I'm gonna tuck that Thunderbolt
0:40:45dock like under the desk, like attach it,
0:40:47like stick it under the desk or something
0:40:49so that I don't even see it.
0:40:51and it's just, yeah, it's just velcroed underneath.
0:40:54I would never recommend that somebody buy
0:40:57a $200 Thunderbolt dock or whatever it is
0:40:59as a cord control mechanism,
0:41:03but since I have it, I may stick with it, we'll see.
0:41:07- If people wanna see these images, by the way,
0:41:10they're in our show notes, which are relay.fm/upgrade/nine.
0:41:15I really like that there is both a brain and a drill
0:41:17next to each other in the corner.
0:41:19- Oh yeah, that's a screwdriver.
0:41:21It's a cordless screwdriver.
0:41:22It's not a drill.
0:41:23It's not that powerful.
0:41:24It's just a screwdriver.
0:41:25It's what I use to mount the iMac on the VISA screws.
0:41:29And then next to it, yes, as mentioned in previous podcasts,
0:41:32the Nerf brain ball, one of my collection
0:41:35of Nerf brain balls is on the desk.
0:41:37It's in my hands right now.
0:41:38Several upgrade listeners noticed that.
0:41:41I'm not lying.
0:41:42Although this gives it scale,
0:41:43'cause you can see it compared to the MacBook Air
0:41:45and realize that this is not a small, like, foam brain ball.
0:41:50This is a large one.
0:41:52I can, yeah, it's big.
0:41:54It's like the size of a human brain, or even bigger.
0:41:58- I'd first imagined like a stress toy type size,
0:42:03you know, like a one-handed,
0:42:04and then you sent me pictures of the big brain,
0:42:07and I was like, wow, okay, that wasn't what I expected.
0:42:09- Yeah, I had a foam little stress toy brain,
0:42:12but that's like a quarter of the size of the brain ball.
0:42:15Brain ball, literally, it's basically the size of my hand.
0:42:19If I put my palm out flat, the brain ball is the size of the,
0:42:23and this is the, we're in the brain ball vertical now, Myke.
0:42:27- And I must say that your keyboard
0:42:30doesn't look very clacky.
0:42:32- No, so a bunch of people asked about my keyboard,
0:42:36a lot of comments about the fact that it had black keys.
0:42:39It's the Logitech Bluetooth Easy Switch keyboard
0:42:44and I like it. It's a nice keyboard. It has the same feel as the Apple keyboards.
0:42:49It's got three different Bluetooth modes so I can switch it around to use
0:42:54multiple
0:42:55to be a
0:42:57device attached to multiple
0:42:59devices so I move into another room and press another button and then it's my
0:43:03iPad keyboard
0:43:05if I wanted to so I could take it with me and do it that way.
0:43:08I'm just used to writing on the - I'm not a clacky keyboard guy, I'm used to writing
0:43:11on a laptop keyboard, and so having some continuity with a laptop keyboard is valuable to me.
0:43:18And I like it better, I think, than the Apple keyboards.
0:43:20I do have the Apple Bluetooth keyboard, but I think I like this one better.
0:43:25So do you actually use that feature much?
0:43:27The switch between?
0:43:30I think I use it - I think I do it more accidentally than not, but I have a Mac Mini attached to
0:43:35the TV in my living room and it's nice to be able to just walk in there and press the
0:43:39button and have it work instead of having to pair it or, you know, or find a USB keyboard
0:43:46and attach it or anything like that. So that part is nice but it's not really necessary.
0:43:51I mostly have it because it's rechargeable and the keys are pretty nice. I mean that's
0:43:58really it. I do have, I have had clacky keyboards in the past. I actually have an Apple Extended
0:44:03keyboard and a USB/ADB converter here somewhere but I'm mostly used to typing.
0:44:10I can type like 110 words per minute on this thing so I'm okay.
0:44:13Is there anything?
0:44:14And a trackpad, Magic Trackpad too.
0:44:17Yeah, why do you use the Magic Trackpad on a mouse?
0:44:19I know this is like a...
0:44:20I know there's a whole show there isn't there?
0:44:24I really, well part of it is continuity.
0:44:28As somebody who has used a laptop a lot and throughout my house, that MacBook Air has
0:44:35been my main system.
0:44:36I mean, I've had a MacBook Air as my main system for three or four years now.
0:44:41So I do all my editing.
0:44:44All of my muscle memory is trackpad and laptop keyboard based.
0:44:50And so I was always like a trackball guy, not a mouse guy anyway.
0:44:54And so the movements are similar.
0:44:56And really it's that continuity that when I sit down at my desk, I'm using the same
0:45:01kind of muscle memory that I would use if I was editing a podcast on a plane.
0:45:06If I'm editing a podcast on a plane or editing it at this desk, I'm still doing all of the
0:45:11-- and it's great for stuff like that because the pinch and zoom for moving around in and
0:45:17out on a timeline in Logic or something like that is actually pretty great.
0:45:21So I've gotten used to it.
0:45:22I think that's really the bottom line is I know that's what Apple says, but I think it's
0:45:26true that I've gotten so used to using a trackpad now that I might as well just use it all the
0:45:31time.
0:45:34So do you have anything else that you would like to note and/or defend about your setup?
0:45:41Let's see, what else did people notice?
0:45:43I want to defend about people who are complaining about the cable clutter, and there are a lot
0:45:48of cords here.
0:45:49This is a migration scenario, so one is there's more cords there than normal because I had
0:45:55to pull a bunch of things out and plug a bunch of new things in.
0:45:59And also part of that is whenever you get a new computer, the last thing you do is tie
0:46:05all the cables down right away because you don't know how you're going to use it.
0:46:10You know, I was just migrating.
0:46:11It was literally the beginning of the process.
0:46:13So I have hopes to make the cable clutter reduce somewhat and we'll get there.
0:46:19I've never been a totally like crazy, like John Syracuse sees my workspaces and just
0:46:25shakes his head sadly and walks on because it's just, it's a, you know, he's a very,
0:46:29a very diligent kind of guy and I've never been that diligent.
0:46:33That that all said, I would like to, to reduce the clutter in my office as much as I can
0:46:41And I'd really been waiting for the iMac to come and get it set up and then do some new
0:46:47work to reduce the number of cables that are floating around.
0:46:49I mean, it is still an unfinished garage in some ways, and so I've got like concrete and
0:46:54other things that are not ideal.
0:46:56But in a lot of ways, it's pretty close to being just a solid regular old office now.
0:47:01So it's time for me to get some little Velcro ties and maybe some double-sided Velcro tape
0:47:08and other things and some other cord control stuff to reduce that. Also it's a sit-stand
0:47:14desk so all of the cord stuff that I have, I have to have enough slack in the cords that
0:47:21it works when the desk is up. So you need to have enough length in the cords for when
0:47:26it's in the high position and then when it's down in the low position there is extra cable
0:47:30just kind of floating around and that's just how it is. So that's life. So yes it will
0:47:35be less awful than it looks here but I can't guarantee that it will be super
0:47:39pristine Johnny Ive approved desk material. There's a coaster on the desk
0:47:44that's very exciting. There's a thermometer on the desk so I can see how
0:47:48cold it is and turn on my little space heater when I need to. And then...
0:47:53I think you're using a Uni-ball Sino 207.
0:47:59I don't know what you're even talking about now. Is that a pen? Did you just
0:48:02call out my pen?
0:48:04uh-huh it's not a call out I just think that's what you're using
0:48:08it okay Myke first off here's the pen
0:48:11yeah it's in that photo does that excite you to hear pens? Sure
0:48:16am I right? Are you the pen addict or is somebody else the pen addict?
0:48:19I'm not the pen addict Brad is the pen addict. Brad is the pen addict
0:48:22the title character in the podcast of the same name
0:48:26okay it's a pilot G2. Oh terrible
0:48:30terrible no I'm not the pen addict no no I'm terrible
0:48:33Oh, okay. You're identifying them.
0:48:35I named it incorrectly but knew what one it was because that was the pen that I used to
0:48:39use. I like it.
0:48:41I love the G2. The G2 is a great pen. I hope you use a 0.7.
0:48:46Pen vertical. This is the...
0:48:49Pen Addict Vertical of the upgrade.
0:48:5105? I don't know. It's uh, yeah, I like those gel pens. They're fine. I'm not a pen nerd
0:48:56either. I'm not a pen nerd but when I saw all the pen nerds talking about gel pens,
0:49:00I got some gel pens and I thought, oh yeah, okay.
0:49:02- Yeah, no, you made the right choice.
0:49:04- 'Cause I used to have those pens that were,
0:49:07they had the reservoir that you could actually see,
0:49:11the ink reservoir, and then they had the little metal tip
0:49:15at the front and they weren't clicky, they had a cap.
0:49:17I forget, they were very popular for a long time.
0:49:19I still have some around.
0:49:20And I used those and I liked those,
0:49:23but they also smeared, the ink smeared
0:49:25when you started writing and all that,
0:49:26and the gel pens are pretty awesome.
0:49:28So that's my pen addict vertical right there.
0:49:33- Brad's gonna be so upset at me when he hears this.
0:49:35(laughing)
0:49:37- So you noticed the pen, that's good.
0:49:39You're being well-trained.
0:49:40I often have Dungeons and Dragons dice on there
0:49:43from when we play D&D on the Total Party Kill podcast,
0:49:45but they weren't on there for this.
0:49:47I got a couple of San Francisco Giants pens
0:49:48in the background, including the one I got
0:49:50when I was like seven years old,
0:49:51which shows an actual giant swinging a bat
0:49:54at Candlefoot Park. - Oh, I see him.
0:49:55I see him, there he is.
0:49:56He's a giant.
0:49:58People say they don't have a really tall guy
0:50:01as their mascot, but in this pennant,
0:50:02they've got a giant guy.
0:50:03- If they were almost that big, it'd be really unfair.
0:50:07- I've got my Heil PL2T boom with a blue Yeti microphone
0:50:12that I'm speaking into right now and a little pop filter
0:50:16on it, you can see it over there on the left.
0:50:18And then that's about it.
0:50:20On the walls, there's a corner of a movie poster
0:50:22that's the real genius movie poster.
0:50:25And on the right, people asked about this,
0:50:27that's a framed copy of the first cover of Macworld
0:50:30and the 20th anniversary cover of Macworld
0:50:34that the company that owns Brown printing,
0:50:36it's Brown printing, the printing press for Macworld
0:50:38for that entire time and for its entire print run,
0:50:41sent that to the president of the company
0:50:44for 20 years of working with Macworld.
0:50:46And I thought that was nice.
0:50:49The president of the company gave it to me
0:50:51and I took it with me when I left.
0:50:53So it's on my wall.
0:50:55And that is the Zapruder-like analysis
0:50:58of a picture of my desk.
0:51:00- Well, we can do it to mine.
0:51:01'Cause I've put a picture in the shot of my desk.
0:51:06- All right, so let's talk.
0:51:07So the premise here is not just to do
0:51:08the Zapruder-esque analysis of images,
0:51:11but to, for people who don't know,
0:51:13the Zapruder film is that film of the Kennedy assassination
0:51:15that everybody looks at frame by frame.
0:51:17That's where that comes from.
0:51:18It's that I am now,
0:51:20this is now my new workspace that I'm building.
0:51:22and you now have, are not in a workspace at your office
0:51:27because you have left your employment
0:51:29and we are both gentlemen of leisure now.
0:51:31- I like to call it fun employment.
0:51:33- Yeah, sure, that's right, that's right.
0:51:36And so I think it's interesting how we now no longer
0:51:41have the warm embrace of an employer to tell us
0:51:44where to sit and what to use and all of that
0:51:46and we have to set our own workspaces up.
0:51:48So I thought this would be,
0:51:49I know this is a little Mac Power Users and a little, I don't know what, a little Merlin
0:51:55Man, we should have had Merlin Man on to consult about this, but I've got your picture open
0:52:00now, so I'm analyzing it.
0:52:03There's a beverage.
0:52:04There is, I'm going to give you some time to analyze it.
0:52:06Okay.
0:52:07Are you going to tell me about a friend?
0:52:08I'm going to tell you about our friends at Igloo.
0:52:10Igloo make an internet you'll actually like.
0:52:13Igloo, do this.
0:52:14They make something you're going to like because they make it easy to use and they integrate
0:52:17apps like shared calendars, Twitter like micro blogs, they incorporate file sharing, task
0:52:22management and so much more. Igloo make it easy to work with your co-workers and they
0:52:28make it even easier to work even better with them. You can share documents together, so
0:52:33you can co-author documents, you can share status updates about what's going on in the
0:52:37break room today. Maybe you want to say this is my lunch, don't touch my lunch, where you
0:52:42do all that in igloo with the microblog stuff that you have.
0:52:47And you can also manage your projects all in one place so you can actually get some
0:52:50work done as well, not just talk about what's happening in the conference room or the break
0:52:53room.
0:52:54When somebody changes an item, so they change a document in igloo, notifications are sent
0:52:58or maybe they update a task and notifications are sent out.
0:53:02And this is all done in the way that you choose.
0:53:04So you can say I want to be notified here and here, I don't want to be notified about
0:53:07this.
0:53:08You have granular access to make sure you can go in and just get the notifications that
0:53:12want. And when people are making changes to a document, a complete version history is
0:53:16maintained. This keeps everyone in sync and makes sure that Crazy Bob doesn't accidentally
0:53:20delete that GIF from the presentation you've been working on, because you can go in and
0:53:24restore it, because Bob doesn't like GIFs because he likes them to be called GIFs, but
0:53:28this way you can make sure that Bob won't win.
0:53:32Also recently, Gartner released their famed Magic Quadrant for Social Software in the
0:53:37the workplace report, and igloo appears on this report for the sixth consecutive year
0:53:41alongside Microsoft, IBM, Google, and SAP. This is an excerpt from Gartner's profile.
0:53:48Feedback from igloo's reference customers was consistently positive. They praised the
0:53:51product's quick deployment, configuration, and customisation flexibility with self-service
0:53:56options for non-technical users, control over branding and information organisation, and
0:54:01ease of use. They also praised the responsiveness of igloo as an organisation. If hearing that
0:54:07excites you then you should be trying out igloo because if you hear that and
0:54:11you're like "oh I need that" then you should be trying it out. If it doesn't
0:54:14excite you let me tell you about some other things. So all of igloo is built
0:54:18with responsive web design in mind so anything that you can do on any machine
0:54:21you can do on all machines. So if you've ever used some sort of internet software
0:54:27or maybe you've been using SharePoint for a while you know how amazing this is
0:54:30that you'll actually be able to get some real work done and access your full
0:54:33corporate internet from your phone. And I say corporate internet, you can put anything
0:54:37in there and people do. I've seen examples of different igloos that the guys at igloo
0:54:41have shown me where people are able to share just what they're up to on a daily basis as
0:54:47well as actually get their work done. You can create little communities within your
0:54:50igloo and have certain functionalities, that's in these ones and certain functionalities
0:54:54in other ones depending on what's needed. You have full control over it. It's really
0:54:58awesome and you should be trying it out and you should definitely be trying it out because
0:55:02it's for free for up to 10 people and you can sign up right now at igloosoftware.com/upgrade
0:55:08so it's free for up to 10 people. Thank you so much to igloo for their support of upgrade
0:55:13and all of Real AFM and thank you for being such a good friend. On the Clockwise podcast last week,
0:55:19I think it was last week, we had igloo as a sponsor and my sponsor read got away from me a little bit
0:55:26and I started talking about how it was magic and I had to explain that it wasn't black magic,
0:55:29It was more like good Harry Potter kind of magic.
0:55:31It was very confusing.
0:55:33And then Marco from Igloo saw our show notes,
0:55:37which just said, "Brought to you by Igloo,"
0:55:40you know, and the normal thing.
0:55:41And then it said, "It's like magic, but not the bad kind."
0:55:42And he said, "Oh, that's really funny."
0:55:44I said, "Have you listened to the spot yet?"
0:55:45He said, "No."
0:55:46- Let's see if you change your mind.
0:55:49- Yeah, I think he thought it was funny,
0:55:51but that was a funny moment of me.
0:55:55Like, yeah, you're doing an ad read and you're like,
0:55:57like, "Well, what is happening to this?" as you're talking.
0:56:01So anyway.
0:56:02Ickly like it when you get a little bit crazy.
0:56:04I think the podcast ads are more fun when everybody's having fun with it.
0:56:11And I said it was good magic.
0:56:12I didn't say it was black magic.
0:56:13If they get very angry and they're like, "No, no, we're evil magic," then they should let
0:56:16us know.
0:56:17Yeah, I haven't received that feedback yet, but if I do, I'll let you know.
0:56:21Then they can become an enemy sponsor instead.
0:56:23Enemy of the podcast.
0:56:25We are looking for an enemy sponsor, by the way.
0:56:28It's available.
0:56:29Somebody offered to pay $20 if we said a nice thing about Windows Vista.
0:56:32A few people were trying to club together today to buy a sponsorship and be an enemy,
0:56:37but I don't think it panned out.
0:56:39That's another failed attempt to take over the world by the villains.
0:56:44They didn't make it.
0:56:46Only our friends made it.
0:56:47Keep trying, enemies.
0:56:49One day you'll make it.
0:56:50We are actually about three minutes away from where I become the man of the hour, so it's
0:56:55probably about the right time to talk about my workspace. I think it is. So here it is.
0:57:01So I give a brief overview of what you can see here. So I have a Retina MacBook Pro there,
0:57:08as you notice, that is open. And below it is a Microsoft keyboard. Yeah, it's one of
0:57:15the ergonomic keyboards. The Microsoft... Natural keyboard, I think it's called. That's
0:57:20- That's what Microsoft Natural Keyboard,
0:57:22I don't know if keyboards naturally grow like that,
0:57:25and that's why they call it the Natural Keyboard.
0:57:28- It's not organic, it was raised with some additives,
0:57:32but the organic keyboards are a little bit more expensive,
0:57:36but they're totally only raised on organic.
0:57:38- Oh, no, that is the Sculpt, not the Natural.
0:57:42The Sculpt is the one that has the hole in the middle,
0:57:45which is what mine has.
0:57:46- Oh, I see, I see.
0:57:47- Well, you know what Michelangelo said
0:57:50is that every great keyboard starts as a block of granite,
0:57:53but the great artist sees the keyboard within it.
0:57:56- I'm sure he did say that.
0:57:58(laughing)
0:58:00- The sculpt, I tried.
0:58:01Anyway, yeah, so you've got multiple keyboards.
0:58:03You've got a little Apple wireless keyboard,
0:58:08and you've got a Microsoft keyboard,
0:58:09and then you've got your laptop on a stand with a keyboard.
0:58:12- Yep, so I don't really,
0:58:14I try to not use the one on the stand.
0:58:16And I have all of this.
0:58:19So I also have my MacBook on a little stand.
0:58:24I can't remember the stand, I just found it on Amazon.
0:58:26I just grabbed any stand that looked sturdy enough.
0:58:28And I have a Magic Mouse there as well,
0:58:32because I started to get some wrist pain.
0:58:34And I spoke again to Marco Armin.
0:58:39He's like the advisor of this week's episode.
0:58:41'Cause I know he used this crazy keyboard,
0:58:45and I asked him if he had had some wrist pain
0:58:48and he said that he was moving towards that
0:58:50and then completely changed everything.
0:58:52So that's when I elevated the MacBook
0:58:55and got all this stuff.
0:58:56And it has been a lot better actually
0:58:57since I started using this stuff.
0:58:59But yeah, I have another keyboard.
0:59:02That other keyboard is for the Mac Mini
0:59:04which you can kind of see underneath
0:59:06two different external hard drives.
0:59:09- Oh yeah.
0:59:10- So that Mac Mini there.
0:59:11And then I have the Logitech mouse and a Magic Trackpad.
0:59:16Now when I edit, I use both.
0:59:19Ooh!
0:59:20Yeah.
0:59:21It blew my mind.
0:59:23So when I'm in Logic, I am two-handed editing in Logic now.
0:59:29That's crazy.
0:59:32Because the mouse provides me with finer grain control to click and select things.
0:59:37Plus it's also better, again, for the wrist.
0:59:40But then I used the pinch and zoom gestures on the Magic Trackpad.
0:59:46I don't even...
0:59:47Wow.
0:59:48That is, I've heard people say that they use the Magic Trackpad just for pinch and zoom
0:59:55and then they use a mouse for everything else.
0:59:56I guess you're people.
0:59:57I wouldn't be using it if there was a way to get the pinch and zoom gesture into the
1:00:02mouse there is not.
1:00:04Like you can do it by like holding down some key commands and then using the wheel.
1:00:07Yeah, like a control wheel or something?
1:00:08Yeah, but it doesn't work very well. It's not as well tuned as the...
1:00:14And also the gestures, you know, like the trackpad gestures.
1:00:17Yeah.
1:00:18You can't get them as easy with the mice. Even with the Magic Mouse, you can't get all of them.
1:00:23Apple sent, when they had the review unit they sent me of the Retina iMac, it came with a Magic Mouse.
1:00:29I thought, "Oh, I'll try this out." And within like five minutes, I was like, "I hate this thing."
1:00:32I hate trying to access Mission Control because you have to double tap on the mouse,
1:00:38but I never seem to do it in the right place.
1:00:40And it never, it just,
1:00:41it takes me multiple times to get it to work.
1:00:44- So you've got, I mean,
1:00:46I'm really witnessing this system that you've got,
1:00:47where you've got your laptop that you use as a laptop,
1:00:50just for, even though it's got an external keyboard,
1:00:53it's for your notes and the web and things like that.
1:00:55And then you've got the Mac mini with a monitor
1:00:58and a keyboard and a mouse and a track pad
1:01:00and below it a mixer.
1:01:02And that's your podcasting setup.
1:01:05And then you've got your microphone
1:01:07on the boom arm with the pop filter.
1:01:09So it's two computers on one desk.
1:01:14What's in the cup?
1:01:16What's that beverage?
1:01:17- That is Dr. Pepper Zero.
1:01:18- Okay, and there are field notes behind it too.
1:01:22- Yeah. - People who are not looking
1:01:23at the show notes are really missing out.
1:01:26- There are field notes everywhere.
1:01:28There's a pile of field notes
1:01:30and then there's one tucked underneath the computer.
1:01:32And then that big one is a big field notes.
1:01:34That big field notes is what I actually use
1:01:36to take notes as we record.
1:01:38So I take timestamps, for example,
1:01:40at minutes 12 and 14 and 39 and 23 seconds respectively,
1:01:45there were some fireworks in the background here.
1:01:48So I need to go into the file to cut them out.
1:01:50- Oh, interesting.
1:01:52- So there's a couple of other things.
1:01:53So that monitor is actually a television.
1:01:56- Yeah, I was gonna say it looks like a TV.
1:01:58- Yeah, so the Mac Mini goes into there.
1:02:00It's not the best, but I don't really use it for too much,
1:02:03so I can live with it.
1:02:05But also I have underneath a HDMI switcher,
1:02:08that's what a little blue light is on that box.
1:02:11And into that HDMI switcher going the Mac mini,
1:02:15an Xbox and a PlayStation.
1:02:17So they will go into there and then they go into the TV.
1:02:20Right, so I use it for gaming too.
1:02:22What else do I have here?
1:02:24- So you use the TV on your desk to play games?
1:02:27- Yes.
1:02:28- Interesting.
1:02:35I mean that makes perfect sense.
1:02:36I'm just thinking of it as a workspace
1:02:39and then having it also be a game space.
1:02:40Just it's kind of funny that you got all your business there
1:02:43and then when it's time for Myke to play some games
1:02:47and leave the business world behind,
1:02:48he doesn't really go anywhere.
1:02:50- Just turns, I turn slightly.
1:02:52- Turns the angle, you move from a business angle
1:02:55to a gaming angle.
1:02:56- Yeah, let's see how that plans out in the long run.
1:02:58- All right.
1:02:59- Because previously it hasn't really been
1:03:00too much of a problem, but maybe it will become a problem.
1:03:04- Now that this is your business?
1:03:07- Yep.
1:03:08- So do you edit on the Mac Mini or just record?
1:03:11- No, I edit on the Mac Mini.
1:03:13- So you're editing podcasts on a TV?
1:03:15- Yeah.
1:03:16- Huh.
1:03:17- Yeah, it's on my ever growing list of things
1:03:21to get a proper monitor,
1:03:22but it's nearly been a financial constraint
1:03:26and the constraints of the screen resolution
1:03:30are not high enough for the financial constraint to be okay.
1:03:35- I just don't understand why,
1:03:37you're gonna have to explain this to me again,
1:03:38I don't understand why you wouldn't use your powerful
1:03:41and beautiful screen Retina MacBook Pro
1:03:43to edit your podcast.
1:03:46- 'Cause then I have to transfer the files onto it.
1:03:49And I know that sounds like such a silly thing,
1:03:51but it's all just there,
1:03:53and then I have ethernet plugged into there
1:03:55so the upload speeds are quicker,
1:03:56because I have a horrible internet, remember.
1:03:59So basically the difference in speed between what my MacBook can achieve and what the Mac
1:04:07Mini can achieve is like double in some instances, so like the upload speeds are a lot quicker.
1:04:13So Ethernet hub?
1:04:15Yeah, but then I need to have another cable into the...
1:04:19Yeah, I know.
1:04:20I know that there are things.
1:04:21There are many things.
1:04:22Because you've got this very powerful computer with a very beautiful monitor, and you're
1:04:27editing on a TV.
1:04:29- Yeah.
1:04:30- By choice.
1:04:31- By choice.
1:04:32- 'Cause you could use the other one.
1:04:33So I guess everything on TV is not as inconvenient
1:04:36as transferring a file a couple of times.
1:04:38- Yeah.
1:04:41- I guess.
1:04:41- I guess, I've never really--
1:04:43- I'm not judging you, Myke.
1:04:44I just, I'm fascinated by that.
1:04:46I am judging you a little bit,
1:04:47but I'm fascinated by that decision
1:04:48that obviously the convenience of it means more to you
1:04:52than the, you know, having the probably what,
1:04:57slower and worse display of the thing that's sitting six inches away.
1:05:03Well you see the thing is Jason, I'd never considered it and now I'm horrified
1:05:07uh because now I'll never forget it so I may have to change the way that things work here because
1:05:14now I will remember how much easier it will be to just edit on this machine.
1:05:18Well if you got a if you got a uh you could get a dock or something and uh and I don't know and
1:05:25and then plug in and use that.
1:05:27I don't know.
1:05:28You should think about it.
1:05:29As you're thinking about your audio workflow,
1:05:31perhaps that changes your device workflow too.
1:05:34I like, I get, I totally get,
1:05:36especially with Apple audio issues in the OS,
1:05:40I think having a second system for recording
1:05:43is pretty smart.
1:05:46Also, it allows you to have all your Skype business
1:05:48and all that up on the TV.
1:05:50And then your laptop is fully dedicated
1:05:53to everything else, whereas I've got Windows tiled
1:05:57and Skype hiding behind things and all of that.
1:06:00So I see the appeal of it, I do.
1:06:04I just, it's just the, it's interesting given
1:06:07how powerful the laptop is.
1:06:10And if you're changing so you may not need
1:06:12the audio in anymore, maybe that's the thing
1:06:13that makes you reevaluate the whole thing, I don't know.
1:06:16- Yeah, I think part of it is I've been doing this
1:06:18for longer than I've had a more powerful laptop.
1:06:21So it's just like the power of the laptop has not really been in question before, because
1:06:27it's like, "Okay, so, oh yeah, you know, this would be easier."
1:06:31But I've never really considered it, you know, because it's just kind of just been like I
1:06:34have always done it this way.
1:06:36Right, and it's not -- you're using your old -- you brought this new piece of hardware
1:06:40into this old -- in this system that works just fine, so why would you change it?
1:06:43Because there is still a feeling to me of keeping it all in one place that I quite like.
1:06:49These are decisions that IT departments make too. So Myke, you're basically acting as your
1:06:53own IT department here. Saying look, this works, this is a perfectly solid setup and
1:06:58you know, is it using current operating system or is that also sort of slow to update?
1:07:04The Mac Mini. The Mac Mini, yeah.
1:07:06Yeah, it's currently running, what is it, we looked at this before and I keep forgetting.
1:07:12It's running 10.8 which is Lion? That's Mountain Lion.
1:07:19Mountain Lion, Mountain Lion, yep.
1:07:21- So you are, you really are your own IT department here
1:07:23where you've got Myke's own personal, fancy, fun,
1:07:27MacBook Pro, Retina, and then you've got
1:07:29the IT department's audio setup,
1:07:31which is two versions of OS X behind
1:07:34and running off of a TV set,
1:07:37but it's like, it works, it's rock solid, don't change it.
1:07:39There's something to be said for that.
1:07:41I mean, we make fun of IT people a lot.
1:07:43I was complaining the other week
1:07:45about trying to buy an audio plugin,
1:07:47and they said, well, no, no, no, you can't use Yosemite.
1:07:51No, no, we'll support Yosemite later,
1:07:54maybe months later because it's scary, it's new
1:07:57and we gotta qualify everything.
1:07:59But that's, you know, you've got a tool that works
1:08:02and it's this Mac mini setup,
1:08:04even though it could be upgraded and changed,
1:08:06ooh, upgraded, somebody should call a podcast upgrade.
1:08:09I just, it's interesting.
1:08:12It'll be interesting to see how it changes,
1:08:13especially if your workflow needs change
1:08:15in terms of the audio stuff.
1:08:16if you go to a USB interface.
1:08:18- Yeah, that is-- - But this is the challenge.
1:08:20We're all our own IT people now.
1:08:21We're our, right, you and I.
1:08:22We make these decisions ourselves with budget constraints
1:08:25and prioritizing what needs are most important to be met,
1:08:29all of that.
1:08:30- Yeah, I mean, the IT department analogy,
1:08:33whilst humorous, is an interesting one
1:08:35because it is very much, like, I can sympathize with it
1:08:38because it's simply the case of,
1:08:45If this breaks, it's a lot to fix.
1:08:49Like if anything on this Mac Mini breaks,
1:08:51that is a problem.
1:08:53And that's time and money that needs to go into
1:08:56to making it better.
1:08:58So that's why I try not to mess with it too much.
1:09:00Like, you know, the operating system upgrades and stuff.
1:09:03But yeah, I hadn't considered transferring the files
1:09:08between the machines before.
1:09:09'Cause I could just simply do that by a Thunderbolt cable.
1:09:14- Sure.
1:09:15if they're not too big, but they're audio files,
1:09:17so they probably are.
1:09:18You could probably use AirDrop,
1:09:19but of course your system,
1:09:20that Mac Mini doesn't run an OS that has AirDrop.
1:09:24Anyway, yeah, Thunderbolt cable would work.
1:09:27- Yeah, well, I mean, the Core recorder files that I use
1:09:31or the AFF files that I swap them into,
1:09:34they can be multiple gigabytes.
1:09:35- Yes.
1:09:36It's true, but it could be done.
1:09:39It could be done.
1:09:40I don't know.
1:09:41I don't know.
1:09:42I don't want to ruin your perfect workflow
1:09:42because it's gotten you where you are today, but--
1:09:44Aside from making me call into question everything that I do, do you have any other questions
1:09:50about what you see in and around my desk?
1:09:52Well, Dr. Pepper0, no, I have no further questions.
1:09:56I think it looks lovely.
1:09:58What's the microphone that you use?
1:09:59We should ask a question to ask.
1:10:02It's a Heil PR40.
1:10:04Very popular.
1:10:05Yeah, I do not recommend it as your first microphone if you are looking at such things.
1:10:12It's finicky?
1:10:14so much just because it's XLR or anything like that or it needs additional equipment.
1:10:18It requires a, you know, not fancy mic technique, but it requires a just a different way because
1:10:25like for example if I just talk just slightly away from the microphone.
1:10:28Oh yeah.
1:10:29So you have to, you have to,
1:10:31Where'd he go?
1:10:32Yeah exactly. Where's he gone? Like my, I have to talk directly into it.
1:10:36Yeah.
1:10:37So you kind of have to get used to that and like with the Yeti that you have, um, which
1:10:43I used, that was my microphone before this one, you can set it so you could be on the
1:10:48other side of the room and it will do a decent job of picking you up.
1:10:54I think for like 90% of people I would still recommend the Yeti as a USB microphone.
1:10:59I know that many people go with the Rode podcaster.
1:11:04I actually do think sometimes in some instances in audio quality it's a step up, however the
1:11:09Yeti has a lot more flexibility, including a hardwired mute switch.
1:11:14Yeah, the Rode Podcaster is not bad, although I wonder if they have some variability in
1:11:21batching, you know, in building them, or if they had at one time, because some people
1:11:27I talk to really love them, and other people say that they're very quiet, it's hard to
1:11:31really drive a game, and that was my experience, is that I didn't think it sounded that great.
1:11:36I think if you set the settings right, the Yeti sounds great.
1:11:40And that's my stock.
1:11:41Like if you want to do podcasting,
1:11:44you can get a snowball for like $50 oftentimes.
1:11:48- But don't.
1:11:49- It's fine.
1:11:50But if you can afford 100 to 110, whatever it is,
1:11:54you can usually find a Yeti somewhere for about that.
1:11:57It's a better microphone
1:11:58because it's got the hardware mute switch.
1:12:00It's got the headphone jack and it sounds really good.
1:12:03Plus it's got the different mic modes.
1:12:06So like Philip Michaels and Lisa Schmeiser,
1:12:09who often will podcast with me on the incomparable,
1:12:13they're married.
1:12:14So they live in the same house
1:12:17and they sometimes wanna be on the podcast together.
1:12:19So they got the Yeti, which has the two across mode
1:12:22where it's directional on the front and back
1:12:25of the microphone.
1:12:26So they can actually sit across from each other
1:12:29with the microphone and do a podcast together that way.
1:12:31And that works pretty well too.
1:12:32So I think that's my go-to choice for like simple
1:12:36And yes, and then there's that pit that all the audio pros
1:12:39and podcasters are down in, that hole that you can go down
1:12:43and get some stuff that sounds better,
1:12:46but the money starts increasing.
1:12:50And I could argue that beyond a certain point,
1:12:54most listeners are never gonna tell the difference,
1:12:56but podcasters will.
1:12:58- Yeah, the Yeti is great.
1:13:02It really is great.
1:13:04And I agree with the road.
1:13:05I've had some issues of gain on that thing
1:13:10and I can't really work out where they're coming from.
1:13:13Because I've had some people have issues
1:13:15some weeks and not others.
1:13:17- We're in the podcasting vertical now.
1:13:18- Yeah.
1:13:19- Hi everybody.
1:13:22- Hi.
1:13:23So I think that's probably it for our workstations.
1:13:26Now there are some other things in this document.
1:13:30Would you like to talk about them?
1:13:32I mean we could at least talk about the podcasting.
1:13:34the man of the hour, you tell me. Well, because we've just spoken about podcasting. Yeah,
1:13:39we should finish on that. Let's just talk. I mean, we've been going for more than an
1:13:42hour now, but we should talk a little bit about this just because we were talking about
1:13:46podcasting anyway. I've been listening like everybody else to the Serial Podcast, which
1:13:52is this podcast from a reporter at NPR. It's the people who do This American Life, and
1:13:58it's a weekly podcast telling the story about a murder from 1999 as the reporter investigates
1:14:03it and talks to everybody involved and it's really a great example of storytelling.
1:14:08It's one of the best podcasts that I've ever heard. It is simply incredible just because
1:14:14of for nothing more, it's the idea and the execution. I think sometimes some of the choices
1:14:22that they make with audio leave a little bit to be desired, but the idea and the way that
1:14:30the story is told, it's like nothing I've ever heard before.
1:14:33I mean it's, it's, I've heard things like this in radio documentaries and things,
1:14:37but to do it in a podcast and to have it be... the reason I wanted to bring it up, I
1:14:42mean yeah it's good, Serial Podcast, S-E-R-I-A-L, podcast.org, it's not about like
1:14:47breakfast cereal, it's, you should listen to it, it's interesting. What it does is
1:14:52it gets me excited about this medium, about podcasting, that, that the, you start
1:14:59with people like this show talking to each other because that is something
1:15:04that's fairly easy to do. You get a couple people with microphones, they talk
1:15:07to each other for a while, you produce it and you're done. Something like serial is
1:15:11much more edited like a movie or like a documentary. There's a huge
1:15:16amount of effort that goes into it but I do believe fundamentally that this
1:15:21is a medium that has a lot of different things that it can produce and right now
1:15:27we're not necessarily tapping into all of those things that things that radio does and also things
1:15:32that just sort of never got a chance to be on radio because you know radio is corporate and
1:15:38and has to be broadcast and and reach a very broad audience so I just I listened to serial and I
1:15:45started to think wow you know what could I do not that was just serial I think we'll we'll probably
1:15:51get a lot of things that are knockoffs of serial. But like what could I do a podcast that breaks
1:15:57format somehow and is different, a very different kind of podcast? What would that be like? What are
1:16:03the kind of options there? And you're as somebody who's embarking on a podcasting career yourself,
1:16:09I'm sure that you've been thinking about this too. And yes, I most definitely have.
1:16:12These tried and true podcast formats like this one, if podcasts can have a classic format
1:16:19being such a young medium, I think this is it. And this is good. But generally, not this
1:16:26one necessarily, but generally this is good. But there's more, right? There's more to be
1:16:31done and that's, I, Serial, not only is it a good podcast, but it got me thinking of
1:16:38that of like, don't just accept that the kind of podcasts we listen to now are all there
1:16:44can be because it's not true and always sort of keep thinking about what are other things
1:16:51we could do to take advantage of this medium because at the end of the day this medium
1:16:54is just audio files being delivered and those audio files could contain anything.
1:17:00Yep. And StartUp is another great example. These two both kind of came around at the
1:17:07same time and I read a statistic, somebody sent it to me via Twitter, I can't remember
1:17:13it came from now but I've seen it in a couple different places that the month
1:17:17of October was the largest amount of single podcast downloads in history and
1:17:25it's probably because of these two shows but that is that's fantastic I mean you
1:17:34know of course relay FM of course of course of course we've helped we're
1:17:38helping. But I think that it's incredible to see that, especially when I've just decided
1:17:47to make this my living. It's good to see that statistic popping up.
1:17:53Yeah, there was the New York Magazine article. The two things about this, the media coverage
1:18:01of this is funny because I think a lot of it is people in the media who know people
1:18:06at NPR or other media outlets and then they do a podcast and suddenly it's legitimate
1:18:11because somebody from major a major media outlet has doing a podcast now it's real which
1:18:17is stupid but it does suggest that trend and I can't remember what whether it was on this
1:18:26podcast or another podcast but I remember talking to somebody about the fact that there
1:18:30was some study that said like what less than 3% of people listen to podcasts it's like
1:18:34That's a sign of growth potential.
1:18:38I do believe that there will be lots of growth in this medium, but part of that will also
1:18:44be interesting kinds of programs that drive people forward.
1:18:53You will have a breakout hit at some point, and maybe it's not Night Vale quite, and maybe
1:18:58it's not Serial even quite, but at some point, something is going to be such a breakout hit
1:19:03that it's going to bring millions of new people into the medium because they've heard people
1:19:07talking about that. Maybe serial is it, but if not, there will be one at some point, I
1:19:11really believe. I had a lunch when I was in Arizona with Aileen who does the Less Than
1:19:18or Equal podcast and her husband and Aileen, I think I over pronounced it. Anyway, and
1:19:25we talked about podcasting for a moment. That was like an unrecorded podcast about podcasting
1:19:29and it was a lot of fun, but we were all enthusiastic for those same reasons. It's going to be,
1:19:35we believe, and I know you and I believe, I think it's going to be big, but it's just
1:19:40not quite over the threshold yet. So it's going to get there and having NPR people and
1:19:46other people like that embrace it so that the media notices and says it's a thing, in
1:19:50the end it's good for the medium, even if those of us who've been doing it for a while
1:19:54kind of roll our eyes. It's like, oh yes, well once somebody from the New York Times
1:19:57as a podcast, then it's a real medium. It doesn't bother me, you know. I know it
1:20:04bothers many people and they're like, "Oh, and they didn't mention 5x5 or Twit or, you
1:20:10know, etc, etc." But it doesn't bother me because it's not relevant to the audience.
1:20:20The New York Magazine, it's just irrelevant to mention Twinton 5x5 in this context.
1:20:28But the other thing is, all of this stuff, all of this press coverage, it's just good
1:20:33for the industry and what's good for the industry is good for us.
1:20:36It's the rising tide lifting all the boats.
1:20:39And all of the people that care that Twinton 5x5 was mentioned in this article are already
1:20:43listening.
1:20:44So it's totally fine.
1:20:46And at the end of the day, I completely agree.
1:20:50at NPR is doing it, so people at NPR are doing the pieces on it, but what it's doing is exactly
1:20:55what we need and it's putting this stuff in front of the mass market because I'm not saying
1:21:01that the millions and millions of people out there are going to listen to upgrade, but
1:21:07what it will do is of those millions and millions, the one, two, three percent of those people
1:21:12that are interested in technology may then come across this show and then they're going
1:21:16and download it. And that's really good. And that's kind of all I care about. I don't care
1:21:22if we get mentioned or don't get mentioned in a New York magazine article. It doesn't
1:21:27bother me. What does bother me is that it's in the New York magazine at all. That's what
1:21:32I'm excited about.
1:21:33Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's -- so you can roll your eyes a little if you want about,
1:21:38like, oh, well, you know, this has been happening for a while and they've only now discussed
1:21:41But bottom line is, for people who love this medium and believe in it, it's good that people
1:21:47are noticing it again.
1:21:48And I do feel like in some ways it's validation of what's been happening the last few years
1:21:53where it had its moment to thrive and it didn't thrive in 2005 or whenever that was.
1:22:00When you were syncing things from iTunes and Apple embraced it and gave it, "We're putting
1:22:04it in GarageBand and we're putting it in iTunes," and then it just kind of fizzled because it
1:22:09was too fiddly and it was too geeky and it just wasn't time. It's since grown naturally
1:22:15and been better and better over time. And sometimes you don't get a second chance. Sometimes
1:22:21people would just say, "Oh, podcasting, that was a thing that was a fad in the mid-2000s
1:22:26and now nobody cares." And so I like the fact that people are talking about, in the terms
1:22:32of the New York Magazine article, podcast renaissance, they have to cast it that way.
1:22:36It's like, "I know we told you about podcasting and nobody listened, but now they're listening.
1:22:39it's a real thing because that's the redemption of that concept and we all believe in it,
1:22:45but to talk to a broader audience and say, "No, this is really a thing now. You can get
1:22:49it on your phone with an app and just listen to it anywhere." That is great for the medium.
1:22:56So in the end, I think it's a good thing. And having podcasts that push the boundaries
1:23:01is a great thing, like like Serial. And I know that I've got a lot of projects that
1:23:09are podcasts like this and then a few that are different. It certainly emboldens me for
1:23:13things like the incomparable radio theater of the air, which we want to do a new season
1:23:17of probably early next year. That's a totally different thing. That's radio, old time radio,
1:23:23drama, comedy, whatever. And it excites me to listen to something like Serial, even though
1:23:29they're seemingly completely different because what they do is say
1:23:33this is a medium that can hold all of these different things and it's not all
1:23:36just you know a roundtable discussion for an hour and a half about computers
1:23:41which is what this is.
1:23:42Yeah one of my things that I'm gonna start thinking about now is
1:23:46what is the what is that kind of show that I can make or a show that we
1:23:53can make on relay FM that and I'm not interested in like a technology show for
1:23:58the masses. Like that's not what I want to do. I want to make something that's
1:24:02maybe a little bit more general interest that fits with what we're
1:24:05trying to do but I don't know what it's about. I know nothing more
1:24:09about it than that. But that's kind of something I'm just starting to think
1:24:12about is what is a more general interest show with an interesting
1:24:16format that lends itself to the sort of stuff that we do? What does that look
1:24:21like? And that's as far as I have on that. But I'm pleased that there's
1:24:25something out there that even is just getting my creative juices flowing again over something
1:24:31completely new which excites me.
1:24:33It's a good time for your creative juices to be flowing now that you are full time doing
1:24:37this.
1:24:38It's a perfect time.
1:24:39Perfect time.
1:24:40Perfect time.
1:24:41I agree.
1:24:42Right, so that's about it.
1:24:43I think for this week's episode of Upgrade, I hope that you have enjoyed it as much as
1:24:46we have enjoyed making it for you.
1:24:49If you'd like to find the links to today's episode, go to relay.fm/upgrade/nine.
1:24:56If you'd like to check out our sponsors, we'd like them very much and we are very, very
1:25:00happy to be sponsored by our friends at The Converted App and also Igloo today.
1:25:06They are our friends.
1:25:07They are our friends and they use only good magic, not black magic.
1:25:10Our friends using good magic.
1:25:12If you'd like to follow your friend, Mr. Jason Snell, he is @jsnell on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L,
1:25:19he writes over at SixColors.com and I am at IMIKE and I am now a
1:25:24professional podcaster. Finally, finally you're a professional. No longer amateurish.
1:25:31I'm no longer pro-am, I am now professional and I create shows at Relay.fm.
1:25:38We'll be back next week for episode number 10 of Upgrade and we will be
1:25:45recording live at a new time. If you are a live listener we will now be recording
1:25:50from next week at 11 a.m. Pacific time at relay.fm/live. You can
1:25:56check the schedule at relay.fm/schedule if you'd like to see when all of our
1:26:00shows record live. We have that there. Until next time, it's goodbye from me.
1:26:06And it's goodbye from me too.
1:26:10[ Music ]