2: You Start From Zero

0:00:00Hello listeners, September is National Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

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0:00:25Hello and welcome to episode 2 of Upgrade on Relay FM.

0:00:29This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Igloo, an internet you'll actually like,

0:00:33and TextExpander from Smile.

0:00:35Type more with less effort.

0:00:37My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by your host, Mr. Jason Snell.

0:00:41Hello Myke, we're back.

0:00:43We are back.

0:00:44They didn't shut us down after one episode.

0:00:47I'm friendly with the guy who controls the network, so I convinced him to let us keep

0:00:53it going.

0:00:54Good, good.

0:00:55Excellent.

0:00:56really great feedback for episode one.

0:00:59So thank you to everyone that was very nice to us

0:01:03and we're back for another episode of Upgrade.

0:01:06- Yeah.

0:01:07- And probably the thing that is gonna make Jason

0:01:11more happy than anything else on the planet

0:01:13(laughing)

0:01:15is the fact that we can do follow up on this show

0:01:19and our Google document, about two thirds of it is follow up

0:01:25- So, I mean--

0:01:26- We just admit it.

0:01:27You know, Accidental Tech podcast has follow up

0:01:30for like 90% of their running time,

0:01:31but we might as well just admit it upfront.

0:01:33There's a lot of follow up.

0:01:34I'm very excited that we have so much follow up

0:01:36'cause I've never really done podcasts

0:01:37with follow up before.

0:01:39And we got comments,

0:01:40which means we have things we can follow up on.

0:01:42'Cause that was the big question last week

0:01:44was would anybody say anything

0:01:45or would there literally be no follow up

0:01:47other than to remind people that there could be follow up.

0:01:51- Before we start the officially ordained follow up,

0:01:54There was one piece of, there was one correction

0:01:56that I would like to make from last week's show.

0:01:59- All right.

0:02:00- And it's correcting you, if that's okay.

0:02:02- Yes, you're fired.

0:02:04(laughing)

0:02:06- I'll get my coat in a moment.

0:02:09One question that I had for you was about

0:02:11if the screen was curved on the iPhones.

0:02:15- Oh yeah, the screen's not, the glass is.

0:02:18- I think my question was poorly phrased.

0:02:23And what I was asking was it,

0:02:24'cause they mentioned in the keynote about the corners,

0:02:27like the edges of the phones,

0:02:29like they are sort of smoothed down,

0:02:33so they kind of curve around a little bit.

0:02:35- But that's not the screen, right?

0:02:36That's the glass in front of the screen.

0:02:38So it was, I'll take it.

0:02:41I was reading it and also thinking about Apple Watch

0:02:45in a different way, but yeah,

0:02:46that's actually one of the things

0:02:47that makes it feel so nice,

0:02:49is that the screen isn't just a flat slab

0:02:51and then there are edges or it doesn't go into like a ring,

0:02:55it just curves down and then, and that makes it,

0:02:58that's one of my favorite features actually of the phones

0:03:01now that I've been using them for a week is they're really,

0:03:05that curve really makes them much more comfortable to hold.

0:03:07- Death to the chamfer, huh?

0:03:09- Yeah, death to the chamfer.

0:03:11I'm glad we learned a word though.

0:03:12We increased our word power by learning that word

0:03:15and now we will store it away for future use.

0:03:17- Never ever use it again.

0:03:19- No. - Ever, ever, ever.

0:03:20- No, there is another correction that we should do,

0:03:23which is I mentioned reachability,

0:03:25it revealed a black void at the top of the screen.

0:03:27It's actually not a black void.

0:03:29I complained that it didn't have your picture behind,

0:03:32like a fuzzed version of your backdrop, your wallpaper.

0:03:36It actually does, but it's really like darker

0:03:40and fuzzed out so much that it's almost unrecognizable,

0:03:43but it isn't just a black void.

0:03:45It's more like a dark wallpaper-y version of a wall.

0:03:50void but it's not like you just if you've got a picture of your friends at the top of your

0:03:57wallpaper it's not like they peek through when you do reachability it's sort of like you can see

0:04:01through the haze like I would see like I could see sort of the corner of a mountain from the

0:04:07picture but just barely so it's definitely not meant to be anything but like a very subtle

0:04:13reference to what's in your on your backdrop in reachability but it's not a complete black void

0:04:18It's almost so hard to see that they may as well have not done it.

0:04:24Yeah, I don't understand. I mean, I guess they didn't want to distract,

0:04:28but I feel like it's a weird thing that they should either have embraced the fact that you

0:04:33get to peek through and see your... That's the metaphor of iOS 7 and 8 is everything

0:04:38sort of translucent and you can see down through the stack. And so you should either make it

0:04:43viewable or you should just not even bother but instead it's this very it's

0:04:47very subtle very subtle but it is there and I said that it was just a total

0:04:51black void it is not.

0:04:53Dead Space Gray.

0:04:55[laughter]

0:04:57Ding!

0:04:59So this is a weird piece of follow-up but it's a piece of follow-up I would like to address.

0:05:08So on last week's episode I creeped some people out by talking about the fact

0:05:13that I had really long fingers and how I thought that it would be okay for me to

0:05:17get a plus and there was a whilst away in in Italy last week my lady friend took

0:05:26a picture of me using my iPhone and I had many people comment on the tweet and

0:05:33I've put it in our show notes which are at relay.fm/upgrade/2.

0:05:38If you want to see a picture of my hands, you're free to do that.

0:05:41Many people commented on the fact that my fingers were very long.

0:05:44Jason, I don't know if you've seen this picture.

0:05:46I don't know if you have an official view or feeling on the sides of my hands.

0:05:50I was confused to see you without glasses.

0:05:53That confused me a little bit.

0:05:54Yeah.

0:05:55I also was confused to see you comfortable and outdoors.

0:05:58That was different.

0:06:01And yes, your fingers seem very long.

0:06:03My fingers I think are long but they're not nearly as long as yours.

0:06:07I believe my toes are very long but that rarely comes up in a technological context.

0:06:12We are venturing into some very interesting areas.

0:06:16Interesting is a strong word for it.

0:06:20You published a very interesting article on not your website.

0:06:25Not on my website, no.

0:06:26On the Verge I think is where that one is what you're talking about, right?

0:06:30What was that about?

0:06:31Well, you know, Nielle Patel is an acquaintance.

0:06:36We've exchanged emails and text messages and just, you know, we're friendly.

0:06:41And he's the editor-in-chief of The Verge. I've always liked Nielle.

0:06:44And he sent me an email last week saying,

0:06:49"Would you like to write a quick thing? We want to scan in all these old Macworld covers."

0:06:55'cause he's old enough that he, as a kid,

0:07:00grew up reading computer magazines

0:07:02and Macworld in particular, which is what I did,

0:07:06although I didn't really come to it

0:07:07until sort of in high school.

0:07:08But the pouring over, back before there were tech websites,

0:07:13I mean, the only way to get this information

0:07:14was to get a magazine and just pour over every detail,

0:07:17every page, there are articles that I would read

0:07:19like 30 or 40 times when I was buying my first PowerBook.

0:07:23Every detail, like what does that mean?

0:07:25parsing sentences, does this mean this feature?

0:07:28Probably means that article could have been written better

0:07:30actually in hindsight if I was that confused.

0:07:32But it was a big thing culturally before all this stuff

0:07:37was on the web, that was the only connection that you had

0:07:39if you loved computers and technology.

0:07:41And so they were gonna scan in a bunch of old Macworld

0:07:44covers and they wanted me to write something short,

0:07:46300 words or something like that about it.

0:07:48So I wrote a quick thing actually on the plane

0:07:51'cause I was going to and from Portland

0:07:55the weekend after this all happened

0:07:57to go to the XOXO Festival.

0:07:59And I just wrote a quick thing and sent it to them.

0:08:01And then they posted it right about when my site launched,

0:08:05which was very nice of them

0:08:06'cause they linked to it prominently in the header

0:08:09and I got a lot of traffic in the verge.

0:08:11But it was nice.

0:08:12It was just a little,

0:08:13I'm trying to say farewell to Macworld as a print magazine,

0:08:16which certainly I have a long history with.

0:08:18And although I have not been thinking about it

0:08:20as a print magazine very much lately

0:08:22because we've been focused on the website

0:08:23and I've been focused on other sites at IDG for a long time.

0:08:28It was a nice sort of Viking funeral for Macworld in print

0:08:32and the idea of computer magazines,

0:08:37which was once a really big thing

0:08:38and is now no longer necessary.

0:08:41- We kind of didn't really address it last week,

0:08:45but it's very sad that the magazine has gone away.

0:08:49Yeah, it is, and yet at the same time it isn't what it used to be.

0:08:56I actually think the quality of it has been quite good and has kept up over the years.

0:09:03I mean, it doesn't have a fraction of the staff, even when I was still there, it didn't

0:09:07have a fraction of the staff it did when I started, and even that was a much smaller

0:09:10staff than they used to have.

0:09:12But I think the quality was good, but it's not really necessary anymore.

0:09:20But that doesn't change the fact that this is a thing that had been in existence for

0:09:23the life of the Mac.

0:09:24It's been printing for 30 years.

0:09:28And so on that level it's sad.

0:09:30But time moves on.

0:09:32That's what happens.

0:09:33It's just like I know a lot of people have said this, but I remember when Stephen Hackett

0:09:38was he had a I think it was the back page yeah and I just remember his

0:09:45excitement and like how excited I was for him. Print gives you tangibility that

0:09:53those of us who work on the web don't get and that often that works very well

0:09:57with our parents and grandparents and other relatives where suddenly the fact

0:10:02that you've been doing things on the internet has a manifestation that they

0:10:05can understand. They can understand, "Oh wow, you are important enough or knowledgeable

0:10:10enough that somebody with a printing press took your picture and put it on their back

0:10:15page with your words." That's a seal of approval that for people who grew up before the internet

0:10:20era, this internet stuff, they don't know whether this is all made up and fake or whether

0:10:26it's really a real thing. And so for them, what a huge stamp it is to have you be on

0:10:32tree in ink. That's a real signifier of quality and I can't tell you how many writers over

0:10:40the years we used, I mentioned this in the Verge article, who were web writers that we

0:10:44would find and say "we like your stuff, why don't we publish you in the magazine?" and

0:10:48they're like "that's cool" and they would always say "my mom went out and bought a copy,

0:10:53my grandma went out and bought a copy, they bought ten copies and sent it to all the relatives."

0:10:58That was a very common phenomenon.

0:11:01What else do we have? Oh, let's see, more follow-up. Yeah, that's right, we're still doing follow-up. It's very exciting.

0:11:09So, the common bond in a lot of the follow-up this week was about our

0:11:16conversation about the phone sizes, because we talked a lot about the iPhone

0:11:206 and the iPhone 6 Plus, and we talked a little bit about the fact that the 5C

0:11:24and 5S are still there, and this was a common thread is the question if

0:11:30Apple is going to abandon that four inch phone size?

0:11:34I've heard a lot of people say, "Well, you know, Apple doesn't make

0:11:38this phone, they've abandoned this size." It's not really true. The 5C and 5S

0:11:42are still out there. The new phones are bigger, but

0:11:46I think when people assume that that's the end of the line for the smaller phones,

0:11:50it could be, "I am skeptical. I think

0:11:54Apple, I think there's a good chance Apple is going to keep something

0:11:58around in that size for a while and perhaps even forever.

0:12:02Just because it didn't get updated this year

0:12:04doesn't mean that in a year or two,

0:12:07there will be something, whether it's called the five

0:12:09or whether it's called like the 6C for compact or smaller

0:12:12or something like that, that is on par or close to on par

0:12:17with these bigger phones, but is in that smaller,

0:12:19a smaller size like the 5 series.

0:12:22And so we got some feedback about that.

0:12:25Listener Phil wrote in to say that there were,

0:12:29the Plus felt way too big to use.

0:12:31He was planning on getting the 6 himself,

0:12:33but if there were a hardware upgraded 5S,

0:12:35he might be tempted to stick with that.

0:12:37And Listener Shep wrote in to say,

0:12:40"I think a small functional iPhone Nano is possible

0:12:43if the technology behind the Apple Watch

0:12:46can be made affordably and in larger sizes."

0:12:48He had an interesting idea that there's actually a patent,

0:12:51an Apple patent about that is making,

0:12:54eliminating the physical home button

0:12:56and instead making sort of a virtual button

0:13:00that would reduce the size even more

0:13:02while still keeping the screen at the same size,

0:13:04which is an interesting idea.

0:13:05But definitely, I heard a lot of women on Twitter,

0:13:10Brianna Wu was going on about this,

0:13:12like these phones are too big for them.

0:13:14They don't fit in their pockets.

0:13:15They don't like it.

0:13:15They like the five.

0:13:16I don't think the release of the six and the six plus

0:13:21is Apple saying, you people who like the five,

0:13:23we, you know, forget it, we're never gonna serve you again.

0:13:27You could assume that because they didn't do a new five

0:13:30this time, but I don't know, there is nothing stopping them

0:13:33from continuing to have a phone that size

0:13:37in their product line, they just didn't update it this year.

0:13:40- I've been thinking about this a little bit too myself,

0:13:42and I don't think they did what we expected them to do,

0:13:45which was to take the 5S and put it in a plastic shell.

0:13:50- Right, right, the 5C is still the 5C,

0:13:53which is two years ago's model now in a plastic shell.

0:13:57- And then the 5S is just the 5S.

0:14:00So, but I've also been thinking quite a bit about this

0:14:04and I think that, I wonder if Apple

0:14:08would be willing to do it.

0:14:10Like, you're looking at the sales numbers,

0:14:13we had the first sales numbers of 10 million

0:14:15sold over opening weekend with the new iPhone 6 and 6 Plus.

0:14:22And I wonder, you know, if in a, I don't know,

0:14:24it'd be like four years maybe before the 5S

0:14:29would be bumped out, potentially something like,

0:14:31if you look at the fact we've just got rid of the 4S,

0:14:34how old is the 4S?

0:14:36- Oh, the 4S is, well, if the 5 is two years old,

0:14:40the 4S is three years old.

0:14:42- So maybe in about three years time

0:14:44is when we're gonna get the answer to that question.

0:14:45- Maybe, maybe, I mean, there's the work that goes

0:14:48into integrating the innards of the phone

0:14:51into a smaller thing.

0:14:53I mean, presumably they would at some point

0:14:55want to increase the, improve the industrial design,

0:14:57make it more curvy and less like the five is now

0:15:01because that's the old design language

0:15:02and they moved on to this new look and feel.

0:15:05But I think there's nothing stopping them from doing that.

0:15:07I think, you know, Apple's got a lot, behind the scenes,

0:15:10Apple does a lot of market research.

0:15:12They've got a lot of numbers.

0:15:13They know in what regions, at what rate

0:15:17the large size phones sell.

0:15:20That was one of the reasons that they made the 6 Plus

0:15:22is to go into regions, especially like Asia,

0:15:25where those phones are very popular.

0:15:26They know what phones sell and at what sizes.

0:15:30So Apple probably knows the answer to this already

0:15:33about what the difference is

0:15:35between the iPhone 5 sized market

0:15:38and the iPhone 6 sized market.

0:15:40And they may have already decided,

0:15:41well, it's not a big enough market for us to worry about it.

0:15:44I think it's just as likely that they said,

0:15:46look, the 6 is our flagship.

0:15:48that is gonna be the size that most people want.

0:15:51Some people are gonna want a bigger phone,

0:15:52some people are gonna want a smaller phone,

0:15:54and we will serve those markets too.

0:15:56And if it's worth it for them to make a phone

0:16:01that's a little bit smaller, they will.

0:16:03They just don't need to do it right now

0:16:04because the 5S is a perfectly good phone,

0:16:06it's got touch ID, it doesn't have the NFC stuff

0:16:09for Apple Pay, but it's a one year old phone.

0:16:13There was a huge leap in performance

0:16:14between the 5 and the 5S.

0:16:16So the 5S is solid in a way that that free 5C

0:16:21is a perfectly fine phone too,

0:16:23but the 5S is that much faster.

0:16:25So I don't know, they didn't need to change it now.

0:16:28I think the question is gonna be in a year or two,

0:16:31do they just say, "Forget it if you want a smaller phone?"

0:16:33I just, they've done the market research,

0:16:36so they probably know, but I would be surprised actually.

0:16:39I would probably put a very modest bet

0:16:42that there will, on the fact that there will always be

0:16:45a smaller phone in the line, that they don't want to turn their back on people

0:16:50who refuse that. But they may know different. They may think,

0:16:53"Yeah, people are complaining, but they'll all get used to it and then there'll be no

0:16:56market for a smaller phone."

0:16:57That may be. They're the ones that have

0:17:00lots of, you know, Apple does a lot of

0:17:03research. They don't make these moves

0:17:07entirely on gut feel. They have an idea of how consumers are

0:17:10are seeing this product line. But from Twitter it seems like

0:17:14there is a market, Twitter not a great research tool, but it seems like there is a market for a

0:17:18smaller phone out there that maybe Apple will maintain in the future. I think it may have been

0:17:26John Gruber's review where he spoke about, I read it in somebody's review, about the fact that

0:17:32there'll probably never be an iPhone bigger than this because they were like testing sizes in

0:17:37in increments. Right, yeah he said like every every tenth of an inch or something like that.

0:17:44So yeah here we go I've got the quote here. "My understanding talking to people at the

0:17:51event last week is that Apple's industrial design team mocked up prototypes of every

0:17:55single size between 4.0 and 6.0 inches in tenths of an inch increments and from those

0:18:02twenty sizes selected the two that hit the best sweet spots the regular iPhone and ginormous

0:18:07iPhone so we might never see new iPhone sizes again or at least not bigger ones.

0:18:14Keeping in mind, I mean he's talking to people who are working on the hardware design, but

0:18:18like I said, this is also informed by research.

0:18:21This is also informed by who's buying what, at least on a gross scale, right?

0:18:25They know people are buying big phones so they wanted to make a big phone and then they

0:18:28figured out what their right size was for their big phone.

0:18:33And the small, I think it works on the small side too.

0:18:35I don't know what they're thinking internally at Apple,

0:18:37obviously about this.

0:18:38Do they think the six is enough?

0:18:40But yeah, the six plus is big.

0:18:43And above a certain point, yeah,

0:18:45they probably would rather you just buy an iPad.

0:18:48But markets change too.

0:18:50People, you know, if Samsung or somebody else comes out

0:18:53with something that's crazy that everybody looks at

0:18:56and thinks, well, that, you know, that'll never sell

0:18:58and it surprisingly sells, then everybody will take stock.

0:19:01And they'll, I think that's what happened with the Note.

0:19:04See, this is the difference between Apple and Samsung.

0:19:07Apple mocks up every size in 10th of an inch increments

0:19:11and holds it in their hands, you know, internally at Apple.

0:19:14Samsung just releases every phone in every size

0:19:17and sees what sells, which is crazy.

0:19:19- I wonder what the right option is in that scenario,

0:19:22though, right?

0:19:23Because Samsung found their winner.

0:19:25- Yeah, yeah.

0:19:26- And they may have never found it.

0:19:28- Yes, exactly right.

0:19:29And Apple didn't, you know, Apple wasn't a believer

0:19:33in that, I think, in that large phone size.

0:19:36And they learned a lesson.

0:19:37No, there's advantages to doing what Samsung does

0:19:41'cause they're doing market research in the market.

0:19:42I think Apple,

0:19:44part of it is I think Apple can't make that many products.

0:19:49I think Apple's attention to quality and detail

0:19:52is such that they really need to focus

0:19:53and they're not that huge a company.

0:19:55They need to focus on a few products

0:19:57and make them really, really good.

0:19:58And Samsung has the ability,

0:19:59and especially Samsung with the Android interface

0:20:02being scalable, that, you know, it wasn't a lot of extra work to make all those different

0:20:05models whereas Apple has had to spend two years laying the groundwork to make these

0:20:10different phone sizes because they were locked into that sort of 1x, 2x mode for their developers.

0:20:17So you know, it was in some ways, it was easier for Samsung to do it because Samsung's playing

0:20:23Samsung's game and Apple's playing Apple's game but you know, Samsung got an advantage

0:20:27because they threw lots of spaghetti against the wall and something stuck and

0:20:31it was it was the the note especially that that surprised everybody.

0:20:35So we still have quite a bit more follow-up but I want to take a quick

0:20:40break to thank our first sponsor for this week's episode and that is the fine

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0:22:15This is something that simply could not be done before iOS 8 and a new TextExpander

0:22:19keyboard has quickly become one of my favorite new features of iOS 8. I am able

0:22:23to just jump in and I'm able to trigger off little things like I have shipping

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0:22:32than having to type all of that out I can just use the text expanded keyboard

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0:22:39moment. So Apple have a limitation, not a limitation, it's like a security setting

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0:23:10snippet data with the main TextExpander app and also play the awesome bloop

0:23:14sounds that you're used to hearing when you expand a snippet. So that they need it so

0:23:18they can connect the two apps together so you can get the snippets. Now, Smile wanted

0:23:23me to bring this up because they've had some feedback from their customers and so something

0:23:26that they've done, that they had done anyway, is they publish an update to their privacy

0:23:30policy on their website which you can check out if you want and it outlines exactly what

0:23:34they need this access for. But it's effectively just so it can get the access to the snippets

0:23:38that you want. I love this keyboard, it's made a real improvement to my work on iOS

0:23:43I love how they use the lowercase and uppercase lettering on the keyboard so you don't have

0:23:47to keep second guessing that shift key.

0:23:49So go right now to the App Store and grab the new TextExpander Touch 3 and start saving

0:23:54time today.

0:23:55Thank you so much to TextExpander and Smile, of course, for their sponsoring of Upgrade

0:24:01and Relay FM.

0:24:03Yeah, one of the funny things about this update is there were apps that supported TextExpander,

0:24:09but it was a lot of work for the third-party apps.

0:24:11and then you get to an Apple app and there was no support for it because Apple

0:24:16wasn't paying attention, didn't care, wasn't going to work on that.

0:24:19And now with this keyboard it's everywhere. It's literally everywhere you

0:24:22get that keyboard you can use the text expander shortcuts

0:24:25in Notes, in Mail, in Safari, wherever.

0:24:28I love using it in Mail.

0:24:31Yeah. Big fan.

0:24:34So Mr Snell,

0:24:35back to your beloved follow up.

0:24:37Oh, follow up.

0:24:38Yeah, well you know episode one there's going to be a lot of follow-up.

0:24:43Listener Bonnie wrote in to say that she ordered the iPhone 6 Plus for her 84-year-old mother.

0:24:49This is something that we mentioned last week.

0:24:53She's moving up from an iPhone 4 but Bonnie says because of her failing eyesight I've

0:24:57had to have the text on her old phone expanded so large she actually used a magnifying glass

0:25:01on her phone.

0:25:02And with the new 6 Plus, they'll have the display zoom turned on.

0:25:09So everything will be bigger, and then she'll also have an easier time finding the phone

0:25:12because it's just that much larger.

0:25:15And I thought that was an interesting real world example of how I've heard this in the past,

0:25:19that people want, you know, you have two choices when you make a screen bigger.

0:25:23You can either make it show more or just make everything scale up and be bigger the bigger it gets.

0:25:29Like, I don't know if you remember the,

0:25:31for a while Apple was making the iBook in 11 and 13 inches

0:25:35and, or 12 and 14 inches, something like that.

0:25:38It was two sizes, but the screens were the same size.

0:25:41So literally it was just, on the bigger laptop,

0:25:43everything looked bigger.

0:25:45There's the same resolution, just a different size.

0:25:48So you could get small print or large print iBook.

0:25:52And this is a little bit like that.

0:25:53So nice, so 84 year old mom getting an iPhone 6 Plus.

0:25:58Myke, your phone is the choice of the octogenarians.

0:26:02- Just like me, huh?

0:26:03- Mm-hmm.

0:26:05You're very much like an 84-year-old mother.

0:26:07- I'm an octogenarian at heart.

0:26:10- That's right.

0:26:11Damn kids.

0:26:12Get off my lawn.

0:26:13Listener Russ wrote in,

0:26:17people were asking about the speaker,

0:26:19and the 6+ definitely seems to have

0:26:22a little bit louder speaker.

0:26:24We talked about speakers last time,

0:26:26and his suggestion, which is an interesting one,

0:26:28is that maybe Apple doesn't care too much about the speakers

0:26:31because they know that people are using this with Bluetooth

0:26:34and docs and things like that

0:26:35and doesn't really prioritize the speaker, which is true.

0:26:40So that may be why you're not getting as much satisfaction

0:26:43out of your speaker on your iPhone.

0:26:47Have you tried the speaker on the new phone yet?

0:26:50- I've had it for like an hour,

0:26:51which I'm gonna mention in a bit.

0:26:53So I haven't got to dig in too much,

0:26:55but I have seen people on Twitter saying that to them,

0:26:58it sounds better or louder. It is louder. It is noticeably louder than the 6 or the

0:27:035. And to be honest, I mean for me, and one of the reasons I asked, it wasn't so much

0:27:08that I needed it to have more accurate sound reproduction, you know, for my audio file

0:27:13music. You just want to hear podcasts while you're cooking. Exactly. I want to hear it

0:27:18over things. Yeah. And so, you know, if it's louder that's great. I did not expect the

0:27:26vibrate motor to be so dramatic. It's powerful. Well you get that big phone you

0:27:35got room for a nice powerful vibration from the motor. There was something that

0:27:41I wanted to ask you from an article that I read on your lovely website which

0:27:46we're going to talk about in a bit, SixColors.com and it was about the

0:27:50you wrote about the Apple Watch Edition right so the potentially two

0:27:55million dollar watch. I should have charged everybody a thousand dollars to

0:28:00read that article because it's article edition. But there was one

0:28:04thing that you mentioned in it that I hadn't seen anywhere else which is the

0:28:10box that the edition comes in. Can you just, anybody that hasn't read it or

0:28:15just to recap, what am I referring to? It just got lost in the shuffle. Some people

0:28:19wrote about it. I actually did a search because I didn't see it anywhere either

0:28:22either and David Pogue mentioned it. Anybody who got a briefing after the event got a chance

0:28:27to see it and a few people wrote about it but I think it got lost in the shuffle of

0:28:30the event. The idea is that if you buy the Apple Watch edition, it's unclear exactly

0:28:34what you get. I think I recall but I don't have it in my notes that they said that you

0:28:38actually get multiple bands when you buy the edition which again I'm not 100% sure on that

0:28:45but again you're paying so much, we don't know how much, for this that they really wanted

0:28:49to load it up with features. And one of the things is, it comes in a box. It comes in

0:28:53a leather box. So that's fancy, right? And it's just like any watch, you get a fancy

0:28:59watch box. It's part of the luxury watch experience. The difference here is that when you open

0:29:04the top, when you take the top of the box off, the base of the box, the bottom part,

0:29:08has the magnetic sort of stand where the watch attaches. It's a MagSafe induction charger

0:29:16for the watch. And on the back of the box is a little slot that is a lightning slot

0:29:23and you can slot a lightning cable in there and plug it in and now your leather Apple

0:29:28Watch Edition box is a dock that you can put by your bedside or out by your hot tub or

0:29:34on your helipad or in your island retreat or wherever you'd like and you can charge

0:29:42it right there at the end of the day. So it's not just a case, it's not just a box, it's

0:29:47a leather charger box. So you're not like threading the cable through this, it's like

0:29:52built in to it. Oh the electronics are built in, so you plug one of those little white

0:29:57lightning cables into the little slot on the back of the box and that's it. And then you

0:30:02click, you know you put the watch on the magnetic charging thingy and it charges. See because

0:30:10this like watch boxes are a thing in high-end watches right so it this shows that they are

0:30:17paying attention to it i've been thinking a lot about this because i like many people

0:30:23have not considered the price of the watch edition it's too much a lot of us are like well it's gonna

0:30:32cost too much and who thought i didn't think much more than that like it'll be a lot like i said to

0:30:38John Syracuse on Twitter, you know, how much you got. It's all of that. We'll take it all.

0:30:45All your assets.

0:30:46There's so many questions.

0:30:48Yeah. Well, that's part of Apple's plan here. One, they don't know the answers to a lot

0:30:54of these questions. And two, they're going to have to roll this product out next year

0:30:58and they want to save some mystery. So some of it is mystery and some of it is they don't

0:31:02know yet what they're going to say. But it is fascinating. They are piling on. I got

0:31:07the feeling when I was looking at it. They're piling on the luxury features, that it's solid

0:31:11gold and it is definitely heavier than the other watches because it is gold. It's impressive.

0:31:18They're loading a lot of luxury features into this. This isn't just, you know, you get it

0:31:22in the same plastic box. You get it in the special leather box with the charger built

0:31:25in.

0:31:26What are your thoughts about the one-year shelf life, potentially? If we look at this

0:31:32like all of our other Apple devices.

0:31:35I mean, that's a great question.

0:31:39I was listening actually to a accidental tech podcast

0:31:43the other day and they were talking about this too.

0:31:45And it was, you know, the idea of planned obsolescence

0:31:48that after a year or two,

0:31:49this is gonna be old crappy hardware

0:31:50and you just spent thousands and thousands of dollars on it.

0:31:53And it's old crappy hardware wrapped in gold.

0:31:56And when I think about the edition and its price

0:31:59and all these features, it does make me wonder

0:32:03If part of the features that they pile into a product

0:32:06that's that expensive, might not be upgrades,

0:32:11might not be a guarantee that for five years

0:32:16they will replace the internals,

0:32:19that you'll be able to take it to an Apple store

0:32:21and wait half an hour or wait an hour,

0:32:25like you would take your watch in to be serviced

0:32:27at a high end watch store, maybe it's a day,

0:32:31and come back and it will have new internals

0:32:33that they'll commit to fitting the latest technology

0:32:37into that watch shape for some period of time.

0:32:41It wouldn't, that would be very different

0:32:43and it seems untenable except when we realize

0:32:46we're talking about a, you know, whatever,

0:32:48two, five, $10,000 piece of jewelry,

0:32:51maybe that's one of the new ways Apple addresses this market

0:32:56is with some sort of a guarantee against obsolescence

0:32:59for some period of time.

0:33:00It wouldn't, they're going way off the book here.

0:33:03So it wouldn't surprise me for them to take it further

0:33:05and say, you get concierge service and technical upgrades.

0:33:09And for at least five years,

0:33:11we'll make sure that you've got the latest,

0:33:14latest hardware updates on the inside of this thing.

0:33:18That's impractical to a point

0:33:20if they keep changing the look of the design.

0:33:22But maybe it's worth it to commit to finding a way

0:33:27to build something into this enclosure

0:33:31or to swap it for a different one even,

0:33:34just to give them some guarantee.

0:33:36'Cause that's what worries me,

0:33:37is you spend 10 grand on something that's a family heirloom,

0:33:40it's different from spending 10 grand on something

0:33:42that's gonna be completely outdated in a year or two.

0:33:45- I think you could just swap it over, right?

0:33:48Like the cost of them getting the gold back helps.

0:33:53- Yeah, it could be that simple.

0:33:56Although whether, I don't know, I don't know.

0:34:00It depends on how personal people feel about it,

0:34:02but maybe, maybe so.

0:34:04I don't know, I think there's something there.

0:34:06I think that if I was an Apple working on the Apple Watch,

0:34:10this would be one of the main discussions is

0:34:13the difference between a Rolex and the Apple Watch

0:34:16is that the Rolex will do exactly what it does now

0:34:19in 50 years, because they're not gonna change time, right?

0:34:23They're not gonna add a 14th, 15th, and 16th hour in 2020.

0:34:28They're not gonna add a new number.

0:34:32None of those things is going to happen.

0:34:34Watches are still going to work.

0:34:37But the Apple Watch is a piece of technology

0:34:39and we know how those things go.

0:34:41So that's, I would have that high on my list of concerns

0:34:46for something with a high price tag

0:34:47like the Apple Watch edition if I were at Apple.

0:34:50- Do you remember when the original iPhone

0:34:53was released and it how long was it for it until it shipped? Is it like six months?

0:34:58Oh they announced it no I wasn't out in December and they announced it in

0:35:05October I think so I think it was only a couple of months for the for the for the

0:35:09iPod? No the original iPhone. Oh iPhone yeah that was six months that was

0:35:13January to end of June beginning of July. So six months. Between that time

0:35:18everyone just spoke about what they thought the iPhone was gonna be like and

0:35:21talking about, oh imagine if this is the iPhone,

0:35:24that's the kind of stuff.

0:35:26That's what we have again.

0:35:27- Yeah.

0:35:28- We can spend the next six months just pontificating

0:35:31about the word tradition. - Isn't it great?

0:35:32- It's great.

0:35:34- There's limited information, some people know things

0:35:36that other people don't know.

0:35:37Everything's sort of spread through whispers,

0:35:39plenty of room for speculation, yeah.

0:35:42- We've got something to talk about, right?

0:35:44- Yeah, high five.

0:35:46- There's one last thing that I dropped in a document today

0:35:50And it's not follow-up per se,

0:35:54but this felt like the best place to say it.

0:35:56And it was a tweet from our friend, David Sparks.

0:35:59And he's obviously referring to the IOS 8 episode

0:36:04of Mac Power Users.

0:36:05And his tweet was, "I think I angered the entire internet

0:36:09by repeatedly saying, 'Hey Siri,' on the podcast.

0:36:12Think we'll need a code word for future reference."

0:36:15And it made me think about how much power we have

0:36:18for anybody listening on like a loudspeaker

0:36:20or in an office or something, could you say,

0:36:21"Hey, Siri," and then they're all just gonna go off.

0:36:24So I don't know if you maybe wanna give it a go.

0:36:26- When I was on, I think MacBreak Weekly

0:36:28or it might've been Twit a few weeks ago,

0:36:30we were talking about this,

0:36:30and it was only when it was in beta.

0:36:32So the potential for downfall was less.

0:36:36But yes, you have the ability

0:36:37because there's no way to train it

0:36:39to only respond to your voice or something.

0:36:41If you've got this feature turned on in iOS 8

0:36:43and your iPhone is plugged in and listening to us,

0:36:46then I could say, "Hey, Siri, send a text message to my mom

0:36:51saying I'm sorry for what I did."

0:36:53(laughing)

0:36:56Yes, send it.

0:36:59(laughing)

0:37:02It's really dangerous and I don't think I like this feature.

0:37:06Also, I don't know if you like husband and wife

0:37:07and you both have iPhone 6s

0:37:09and they're sitting next to each other

0:37:10and somebody says, "Hey, Siri, they're both gonna fire off."

0:37:12It's crazy, yeah, I wonder about this feature.

0:37:15- I turned it off immediately when I...

0:37:17(laughing)

0:37:18Because I activated it.

0:37:20But the thing, I was watching a TV show

0:37:22and it just randomly went off.

0:37:24Nobody said, "Hey, Siri."

0:37:25It just fired off on its own.

0:37:27I can't understand why you would want this

0:37:31if the iPhone doesn't do anything to try and learn your voice

0:37:34which it doesn't appear like it does

0:37:36or at least if it does,

0:37:37I haven't seen anybody mention it.

0:37:39- Yeah, I like the idea of it being in some environments

0:37:43where you might wanna be, you know,

0:37:45you can't press a button, you know, you're not,

0:37:48you're really hands-free and you wanna trigger off Siri.

0:37:51I can see that, but yeah,

0:37:53you'd either wanna be able to set a code word

0:37:55or have some other kind of, you know,

0:38:00voice recognition that matches you to a person.

0:38:03Right now, it's just kind of dangerous.

0:38:04And like I was saying, impractical,

0:38:06'cause if you've got multiple devices that do this,

0:38:08then it's gonna be a disaster.

0:38:10Every device is gonna do the same thing

0:38:11and you're gonna have many series talking back to you

0:38:13and it's crazy.

0:38:15I should try that sometime,

0:38:16'cause I've got three of these devices right now.

0:38:19I should, we could just line up like five iOS 8 devices

0:38:23and plug them all in and then see what happens

0:38:26when you say, "Hey Siri, that's bad.

0:38:27"That's a bad idea.

0:38:29"I gotta do that."

0:38:30- So let's talk about the new iPhones a little bit.

0:38:34So I received my iPhone Plus today,

0:38:40like an hour before I recorded.

0:38:43So I don't have a lot to say about it right now.

0:38:48I have a few things.

0:38:49It is really, really big.

0:38:53- Yes.

0:38:54How do your fingers fit with it though?

0:38:57- Not too badly.

0:38:58- Your crazily, insanely long fingers.

0:39:02- It is big.

0:39:04(laughing)

0:39:04- It is big.

0:39:05- I think I can deal with it.

0:39:09I think I've not had enough time with it yet

0:39:12to get used to it, but I can hold it

0:39:14and I feel like I have a secure hold on it.

0:39:16I bought this rubbery case from Amazon.

0:39:20So I had a case on day one because I ordered

0:39:23one of the Apple silicone cases,

0:39:25but doesn't ship till October,

0:39:27which seems kind of a strange thing to do

0:39:31to have a phone and I ordered them at the same time.

0:39:35So the cases couldn't have sold out faster than the phones.

0:39:39So I didn't really understand what's going on there.

0:39:41but I'm going to go to an Apple store tomorrow

0:39:43and buy one of the leather cases and Apple Care Plus.

0:39:48I've never had Apple Care for a phone before,

0:39:51but I think I will drop this one.

0:39:52So I'm going to get that.

0:39:56Lots of people will probably ask for the case that I bought.

0:40:00So I'll make sure I put it in the show notes.

0:40:03It's one of these companies that I think always takes a bet

0:40:07on the rumors or is one of the companies

0:40:10pays a ridiculous amount. Spigen. S P I G E N. I've heard people say that these guys

0:40:17are always kind of there on Amazon on day one. I bought like a clear kind of

0:40:23rubbery texture case. I like a case that gives me extra grip. That's important

0:40:30with this phone to have as much grip as possible. So I'm probably gonna get one

0:40:35of the leather cases and the silicon cases and just decide between which one I like

0:40:39the most. I really like the the I've been trying the Apple leather case on the on

0:40:45the 6 and it's nice it's nicer than the 5 cases I think the Apple 5 cases were

0:40:51kind of hard to put on and the leather one didn't feel like leather it was

0:40:54stretched so tightly and it was like not textured and it didn't feel like a

0:40:58leather case even though it was made of leather and the new one is much easier

0:41:03to get on and nicer and feels like leather and feels a little more grippy

0:41:07and I've actually been enjoying trying it

0:41:09and I don't usually wear a case with my iPhone

0:41:12and I put it on and it's actually pretty nice.

0:41:16It's funny that you talk about having the device

0:41:17and not the case, 'cause for me,

0:41:19I always flash back to when the,

0:41:21I wanna say maybe the first iPad mini came out

0:41:23and I bought it and I got a box from Apple

0:41:26and I was very excited and it was the case.

0:41:29It was like the smart case or the smart cover.

0:41:31And for like two weeks,

0:41:33I had this thing that didn't attach to anything.

0:41:35I just had this cover

0:41:36and it was just, it was the worst.

0:41:39Like, eventually these magnets will snap

0:41:42onto an Apple product,

0:41:43but now it's just a cover for nothing.

0:41:46So that's worse, believe me,

0:41:48having the case and not the product, that is the worst.

0:41:52- So aside from that, I don't have a lot more to say.

0:41:57Like I've not used it nowhere near enough.

0:41:59- Yeah, oh no, you need to take some time with it.

0:42:01You really, yeah, you need to take some time with it.

0:42:04that's you've got to live with it and like do all of your things that are just, that

0:42:09come naturally that you don't even think about and see where they conflict with this new

0:42:14thing and then how you deal with that.

0:42:17So in a moment of cross-promotion, so I'm recording "Connected" tomorrow with me and

0:42:24Federico Vittucci, which is another Relay FM show at relay.fm/connected. So I'm going

0:42:30give myself on that show I would have had my first 24 hours and one thing that

0:42:36I'm going to do is not charge the phone my plan is to not plug my phone in from

0:42:42the moment I unplug it tomorrow and see how far I can go I think that would be

0:42:48that's that would be a really important test for me because one of the reasons

0:42:51of having this device is for the battery so I will have had it for a day at that

0:42:57point if you think that one day is any better than an hour so you can tune

0:43:01into connected and hear my thoughts on the 6 plus. Very nice I look forward to

0:43:06that. How have your impressions changed if at all since the last time we spoke?

0:43:12Oh I don't know not not a lot I mean I like the 6 I think I made the right

0:43:21choice there. I think the 6 Plus is going to have its huge fans and that's great and

0:43:29that a lot of people are going to say, "Wow, that's a really enormous phone. I'm not quite

0:43:34sure about that." I like the 6 Plus. The battery life is amazing. The screen is amazing. But

0:43:45But it's huge and so it's only gonna be for some people.

0:43:50Beyond that, I guess all the time I spent at XOXO

0:43:53did teach me that I think the battery life,

0:43:57it's hard to gauge battery life.

0:43:58The battery life on the 6 feels better than on the 5,

0:44:00although I'm using a one-year-old 5S.

0:44:02So that battery is degraded already

0:44:05'cause that's what happens with batteries

0:44:07is you use them and they lose life.

0:44:09But it seems better and then the 6 Plus

0:44:13is that much better on top of that.

0:44:15- Betterer.

0:44:17- It is more better, yeah.

0:44:18- And you mentioned this,

0:44:22are you using a case right on yours?

0:44:24- Yeah, I'm just trying out the Apple leather case

0:44:26and just to see, honestly,

0:44:30just so I can write something about it,

0:44:31to just sort of experience what these cases are like.

0:44:33And like I said, it feels better than the five cases.

0:44:36It was easier to put on

0:44:38and it feels more like an actual leather case

0:44:40and it is grippy in a way.

0:44:42and the old leather cases were so stretched out

0:44:45and they felt weird.

0:44:47I didn't like the Apple cases on the 5,

0:44:50but on the 6, it seems pretty nice.

0:44:53- And what phone did you buy?

0:44:56- I bought the 6 in space grey at the 64.

0:45:01So yeah, that was the one I bought and I've got it.

0:45:06And it's great.

0:45:07It's nice to be back with the black phone

0:45:10after a year with the, I got the gold last year.

0:45:14It's nice, it's fine.

0:45:17But I like the, my favorite iPhone maybe of all time

0:45:21was the black iPhone 5.

0:45:23I loved the black iPhone 5.

0:45:25It was just like Darth Vader's phone.

0:45:27And this is not quite that,

0:45:29but although I've got the black leather case on it.

0:45:32So the space gray, you can't even see the space gray,

0:45:34it's just all black.

0:45:35It's the spinal tap phone.

0:45:38How much black could it be? None more black.

0:45:40The black 5 was the one that like really chipped up, wasn't it?

0:45:46Not for me, but yeah, apparently for people. Apparently it could show some wounds, but you know, it didn't ever bother me.

0:45:57It was great. I loved it.

0:45:59A black phone as black as my heart.

0:46:02No, that's not true.

0:46:05That's not true. My heart is much blacker than that. Anyway.

0:46:07Apparently your heart consists of six colors.

0:46:10Six colors, that's right.

0:46:11It is pumping six colors through.

0:46:13This is true.

0:46:14And we're going to get to that just after we take a moment to thank our second sponsor.

0:46:19Ah, excellent.

0:46:20Look at that for this week's episode.

0:46:22And that's our friends at Igloo.

0:46:24They are the intranet you'll actually like.

0:46:28Igloo's intranet works on any mobile device, including these new iPhones, the 6 and the

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0:48:13Yay igloo!

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0:48:24This is from the Upgrade Twitter account, which is @_upgradefm.

0:48:30And listener Leo writes, "You almost sent a text to my mum with your 'Hey Siri' joke.

0:48:35That brought podcast interaction to a whole new level."

0:48:38Wow, it worked!

0:48:40Oh, Jason, you may have done both an amazing and terrible thing.

0:48:44It's not me, it's Apple!

0:48:46Apple does this thing!

0:48:47It's a bad idea!

0:48:49We were just doing some theater, it's theater!

0:48:52I know.

0:48:53I know this is podcasting theater, that's what it is.

0:48:56So I'm sometimes known for my interviewing skills.

0:48:59Yes.

0:49:00Will you allow me to conduct a mini-interview?

0:49:05What you like to be known for are your interviewing skills.

0:49:09Well now, I mean you were one of my favorite guests on Command Space and Inquisitive and

0:49:14I can't do it anymore.

0:49:16You can no longer be a guest on my show.

0:49:18I've retired.

0:49:19I have to do it here.

0:49:21So we didn't talk about six colors at all last week.

0:49:24No, I wasn't sure whether it would be up by the time the podcast posted, so I didn't want

0:49:29to commit.

0:49:30I did mention that the old saying about bleeding six colors, but I didn't actually say that

0:49:35that was my site.

0:49:36That was like a little Easter egg.

0:49:37That was a nice nod.

0:49:38Yeah.

0:49:39I like that.

0:49:40I had a big smile on my face when you said it.

0:49:43So I want to talk about not just six colors, but the shift in your day-to-day life.

0:49:51So this has been your first week ever as an independent writer, right?

0:49:57Yeah, it's day four now, essentially, my work day, day four of working in my garage doing this as my job.

0:50:06How's it been?

0:50:09Well, it's been a crazy couple of weeks. That's the thing, is that we had the Apple event, then the IDG layoff,

0:50:17and then I very rapidly was like doing,

0:50:22well then I was writing my iPhone review

0:50:25and we did our first episode and I went to XOXO

0:50:30and I finished my iPhone review and I came home

0:50:33and the iPhone embargo's dropped and I launched the website

0:50:37and then I had three days where I was sort of like

0:50:41doing things with the website, writing articles,

0:50:43fixing things in the HTML and all of that.

0:50:45So it's too early to tell,

0:50:48'cause this is literally like day four

0:50:50of what would be considered a normal day for me.

0:50:52It's been a lot of fun though.

0:50:54I've said in a few places on my statement

0:50:57when I left Macworld that it had been

0:50:59a tough couple of years, I hadn't really been happy,

0:51:02and I hadn't been doing the things

0:51:03that I really loved at the job.

0:51:05And I can say that so far.

0:51:07I get out of bed in the morning

0:51:09and I have none of those feelings of like,

0:51:10oh God, I gotta grip my teeth,

0:51:14I gotta get through this, it's another day,

0:51:17I gotta go into the office.

0:51:18And that's just gone, those feelings are gone.

0:51:21Now, give it a few weeks and we'll see if they come back

0:51:24and like, oh, I can't believe I gotta go to the garage now

0:51:26and start working.

0:51:27But for now it's just sort of a glee of like,

0:51:28I get to go out and work and write things and find links

0:51:33and talk to people on the internet and do podcasts.

0:51:35And I'm excited about that.

0:51:37But I'm still trying to find a rhythm and a schedule

0:51:42that works for me.

0:51:43and it's a brand new thing.

0:51:46So I'm gonna learn a lot about what to do

0:51:49and what not to do.

0:51:49And a lot of this is experimental and exploratory right now

0:51:52'cause it's day four.

0:51:54This is the first full week of me doing this.

0:52:00So we'll see how it goes.

0:52:02I'm gonna learn a lot.

0:52:03I'm just open to the fact that I'm gonna learn things

0:52:06that are completely unexpected of like,

0:52:09oh, turns out this sort of thing is good

0:52:10and this sort of thing I should never ever ever do.

0:52:13And I look forward to that.

0:52:14- What's it been like to get back into writing every day?

0:52:20Because I think I can probably assume

0:52:23that you weren't writing every day when you were at IDG.

0:52:27I assume you were also doing a lot of administrative work

0:52:31and meetings and like planning and things like that.

0:52:34- Yeah, I kept the Apple articles

0:52:39and occasionally I would write other stories

0:52:41just to keep myself sane.

0:52:42But most of my job was meetings

0:52:44and talking to other editors.

0:52:45And the way I phrased it,

0:52:46I think when I announced my departure was,

0:52:49I was managing the people who managed the people

0:52:51who managed the people who wrote articles.

0:52:53And that was just, you know,

0:52:54and even when I was EIC at Macworld,

0:52:57I was doing a lot less of that stuff

0:53:00than because I was managing,

0:53:02and it's not just managing,

0:53:04it's also that there were other people there

0:53:06to do those things.

0:53:07So like, I don't have any,

0:53:08on Six Colors, I don't have any comprehensive

0:53:10iOS 8 coverage right now.

0:53:11And the number one reason for that is

0:53:14that this has been a crazy couple of weeks

0:53:16and I had to do the iPhone review and prioritize that.

0:53:18But number two reason is,

0:53:20Dan Morin wrote that review for Macworld.

0:53:22And so I've spent, you know, that was a delegation thing.

0:53:26That was, Dan's gonna do that.

0:53:28And so, you know, when you're surrounded

0:53:32by talented people like that,

0:53:33you end up not writing articles

0:53:36because you can't write all the articles

0:53:38and because you've got great people

0:53:39to write those articles anyway.

0:53:41And so, yeah, you end up becoming removed

0:53:44from the writing part of it.

0:53:46And that didn't make me happy because I like writing.

0:53:50I like editing too, and that's something

0:53:52I'm not doing right now,

0:53:53because I'm just writing for myself.

0:53:55But it's nice to get back to writing

0:53:58and to spread out a little bit in terms of the voice

0:54:02and have it be me, because a lot of the stuff that I wrote,

0:54:05I could seep through, but it was also Macworld saying this thing.

0:54:10And I'm trying to establish Six Colors as being me.

0:54:14And I've got some guest writers who've come in already.

0:54:16Dan Frakes and Dan Warren both wrote something last week, but it's my place.

0:54:21And I want my interests and personality to come through because when I look at

0:54:26sites like Daring Fireball and The Loop, John Gruber and Jim Downerimple,

0:54:31their personalities come through there.

0:54:33and I think one of the reasons people like those sites,

0:54:35who read those sites, is because they're reading a person

0:54:38and including their quirks and interests,

0:54:42rather than having it be totally flat.

0:54:44So it's been fun, it's been fun,

0:54:46but I totally recognize that I've got a lot more to learn

0:54:50about how to do this.

0:54:52- You say about the sort of the personal aspect.

0:54:57I'm assuming that when you ever did write things

0:55:01Macworld or TechHive that you had to conform to the style guide in a way?

0:55:07Sure, and sometimes you internalize that. I mean, I'm sure I could have ignored it

0:55:11and gotten away with it. Yeah. You internalize it and you think to

0:55:15yourself, "I'm doing this under the banner of Macworld and I need to follow the..."

0:55:18You know, sometimes I would leave out strange, weird references because I just

0:55:24figured nobody needed to see that or they would take it out anyway. Sometimes

0:55:28Sometimes I'd leave them in and then an editor would take them out and that's been one of

0:55:32the pleasures of the last week is putting those references in and they just are there

0:55:37and people can take them or leave them but I've done I've had a few of those.

0:55:43I think I did a yeah I've done a couple of those little jokes and things and I think

0:55:48that's fun and it adds to it but those are not necessarily things I would have done in

0:55:51Macworld.

0:55:52And you mentioned about your own personality coming through and the things that you write

0:55:57about.

0:55:58obviously people know that you are a big fan of pop culture stuff, you know, they see

0:56:03that with your work at the incomparable. Will you be writing about these things

0:56:07at Six Colors or are we gonna see other aspects of your

0:56:10personality here? I want some of that to come through at Six Colors

0:56:17but what I especially at first want to do is establish that I am

0:56:21writing about technology and I'm writing about Apple and I will also write about

0:56:25other stuff. In fact, the first post that I did was a--before this I launched as a

0:56:29test--was a link post about this Smithsonian Magazine article about the

0:56:33original Star Trek USS Enterprise model being refurbished. So I do intend for

0:56:38some of that to be in there, but I also don't want to turn it into a link blog

0:56:43of sci-fi links, because I want to cater to the audience that, you know,

0:56:48cares about the tech stuff too, and maybe also cares about that, and I don't want

0:56:52to send the wrong signal early on that this is going to be super nerdy, you know, sci-fi

0:56:59links with the occasional Apple post because I just, I feel like that's the wrong balance,

0:57:04but I have to find that balance. I mean, I made the decision not to turn the incomparable

0:57:08into a pop culture and technology podcast network and do my own podcasts about technology

0:57:15there. I, instead I talked to you and we're going to do Clockwise and this show here at

0:57:20relay because I thought it was a different audience and a different kind

0:57:25of thing and I kind of wanted a little separation. Six colors is different and I

0:57:29don't know quite where it's gonna go. I'd like to write about the geekier stuff

0:57:34there a little bit too and let my my love of that stuff show through but

0:57:38right now I kind of feel like I'm taking it easy well and we'll see how it goes.

0:57:43I just don't want to go overboard with it.

0:57:46How long have your days been so far?

0:57:48Are you working one hour, 25 hours?

0:57:52How much like--

0:57:52(laughing)

0:57:53- Well, this has been a weird week

0:57:57because of all the travel and the embargo

0:58:00and things like that.

0:58:01I try to do, this is what my wife and I have been talking

0:58:05about is how do you set up a schedule

0:58:06for something like this?

0:58:08'Cause ultimately, we'd like to be able to plan out

0:58:11sort of like when am I going in and starting work

0:58:15and when am I finishing?

0:58:16And I already had some issues with that

0:58:20because I would come home from the office

0:58:21and do the incomparable.

0:58:22So I was working evenings doing the incomparable already.

0:58:27So we're still working it out.

0:58:28Ideally, I get up in the morning,

0:58:31the kids are getting ready to go to school.

0:58:33I make a pot of tea.

0:58:35The kids are rushing out the door.

0:58:36At some point between seven and eight,

0:58:39I am going into the garage and starting to work.

0:58:44And then in the evening, at some point I come back,

0:58:49I emerge and I'm trying to find time to do that.

0:58:53And also I will leave in the afternoon

0:58:55to pick up my kids at school and things like that

0:58:57if I need to.

0:58:58So I'm still trying to explore it

0:59:00depending on what's going on with the incomparable.

0:59:02Sometimes there are long evenings,

0:59:06but it's still settling down too.

0:59:09Like I'm still making changes to the site,

0:59:10like Facebook tags and RSS tags and accessibility CSS

0:59:15and things like that that I just need to do

0:59:17because I'm building the site and the site templates

0:59:19from scratch more or less, which is fun.

0:59:21But that's also like site maintenance

0:59:24that I imagine will become less of an issue going forward.

0:59:27But right now it's an issue because the site's brand new.

0:59:30So balancing the time of like writing

0:59:32versus posting links versus updating templates

0:59:37versus emailing people is all in there too.

0:59:41- What have been some of the other challenges

0:59:44you faced this week?

0:59:45- I don't know, I mean, we've sort of talked about it.

0:59:51It's trying to find a balance, trying to figure out

0:59:54what to write and what not to write.

0:59:57What constitutes a story and what doesn't?

0:59:59What constitutes a link and what doesn't?

1:00:01What should I be linking to?

1:00:02How do I do that?

1:00:04I have a whole list of stories of things I wanna write,

1:00:06There's a question of, are those 300 word stories?

1:00:09Are those a thousand word stories?

1:00:11How do I balance out the topics?

1:00:13What are people interested in reading?

1:00:15A big one for me, and I'm gonna write about this

1:00:18because it's a big one for me is finding links in RSS.

1:00:22Because doing this job on my own,

1:00:26I need to be tied in with lots of sites

1:00:28that have interesting things that I might wanna link to.

1:00:32And I don't use RSS.

1:00:34(laughs)

1:00:35this is a problem.

1:00:36Most of the links I get are from Twitter

1:00:38and I actually posted a couple of links today,

1:00:40both of which came from Twitter,

1:00:42but I realized that I probably need to do

1:00:45some more curation directly within RSS.

1:00:48And I kind of declared,

1:00:50I didn't even declare RSS bankruptcy,

1:00:52I like foreclosed on RSS

1:00:54and they knocked over the house

1:00:57and there's just an empty lot there now.

1:00:59And now I'm saying, all right,

1:01:00maybe I actually need to put in some effort

1:01:03to curate those sources for links

1:01:07so that six callers can have some good interesting links

1:01:09and it's not just literally me posting links

1:01:12that I read on Daring Fireball

1:01:13'cause that would be a really crappy site

1:01:16because during, not because those links are bad

1:01:17but because there's already a site that does that.

1:01:20So that's something I'm grappling with

1:01:22is trying to figure out

1:01:23and I'm gonna write about it eventually.

1:01:24There's the different feed providers

1:01:26and they're the different clients

1:01:27and I'm literally a babe in the woods.

1:01:29You know, net news wire three was sort of my end

1:01:33with RSS, so things are different now,

1:01:36and I'm gonna have to figure that one out.

1:01:38So that's something I'm grappling with,

1:01:40is I had people who collected links for me before, sort of,

1:01:45and that's sort of my job now,

1:01:46and I need to figure out a strategy there.

1:01:51- Do you wanna know something quite interesting?

1:01:52That this is actually, I think this is actually

1:01:55extremely ironic.

1:01:57So I gave up on RSS about maybe six months ago,

1:02:02I just couldn't do it anymore.

1:02:05I didn't want to, I subscribed to way too many feeds

1:02:08and it's getting too much.

1:02:10Then we started doing this show

1:02:13and sort of thinking about what my role is on this show

1:02:17and finding the things that we talk about.

1:02:20I thought, I can't miss any of Jason's articles.

1:02:24I can't miss them, I have to see them because--

1:02:28- You do.

1:02:29This is true of everybody.

1:02:31- But especially if you.

1:02:32- But especially, I figure one of my key jobs

1:02:35is to read the stuff that you post

1:02:38because that will form a lot of what we talk about

1:02:40on this show. - Sure.

1:02:42- So I've started using RSS again because of you.

1:02:45- Oh, well see, I'm right there with you.

1:02:47I'm right there with you, it's a challenge.

1:02:49- I've subscribed to like 15 maximum feeds.

1:02:54I don't think it's that many.

1:02:55And like, I'm also finding it better.

1:02:58I'm pleased I've done it because it's helping me

1:02:59the other shows as well so like I'm read I'm making sure that now I read

1:03:03everything that Federico writes and everything that Steven writes because I

1:03:05just followed their accounts on Twitter like right for their sites but I would

1:03:10miss things or I would just scan through them but now I'm actively reading them

1:03:14all and when I was away last week I used instapaper to send a bunch of

1:03:19articles to my Kindle and I was reading I read Federico's fantastic iOS 8 review

1:03:25on the Kindle. I'm quite happy with the decision.

1:03:29All right, good, good. Well that's something I'm

1:03:33working toward now. That's actually one of those workflow things, is I

1:03:36need to make time to read and find ways to find interesting things

1:03:41to read so that I know what people are

1:03:45talking about and thinking about and that that can inform me and that's part

1:03:50of my challenge too. Just

1:03:52Just having building up that ways to collect that stuff.

1:03:56- Any high points from the week?

1:03:59Anything specific that jumps out to you as like a big check?

1:04:03- Well, as somebody who's started a new website,

1:04:06getting, like I said, having Nile post that article

1:04:09on the verge after I launched six colors

1:04:12with a prominent link in an editor's note

1:04:14at the top of it to six colors

1:04:17and seeing that drive traffic was great

1:04:19because you've got to start, you know,

1:04:21it doesn't matter if people know you,

1:04:23a new domain with nothing on it is nobody goes there.

1:04:26It's zero, it starts with zero traffic

1:04:28and it is hard to build an audience for something new.

1:04:31And so that was great.

1:04:32And then John Gruber late in the week linked to me

1:04:36from "Daring Fireball" and that was fantastic.

1:04:39And again, you know, you start from zero,

1:04:42any exposure you can get where people can say,

1:04:44"Oh, this exists."

1:04:45And then maybe I wanna read that is a huge deal

1:04:50because you are, no matter who you are

1:04:52and where you come from, that site that you launch

1:04:55starts with zero traffic and zero page rank on Google.

1:04:58And nobody knows the name and nobody knows anything

1:05:01about it existing and it's in no bookmarks

1:05:04and it's in no RSS readers.

1:05:06So getting people to link,

1:05:09oh, also I should mention Techmeme.

1:05:11My notes story about the review I wrote for Macworld

1:05:17got linked on Techmeme on the day that the site launched.

1:05:20So the site had been up for about an hour

1:05:22and I was on Techmeme's front page

1:05:24with Jason Snell, six colors.

1:05:26And I don't know if it was that Gabe Rivera

1:05:28or somebody else at Techmeme,

1:05:29I don't know how that happened,

1:05:30but that was also awesome because really at this point,

1:05:33I'm trying to find an audience and remind people

1:05:37who might know me from somewhere else

1:05:39that this is what I'm doing now

1:05:41and just get in people's feed readers

1:05:43on their bookmarks and in their Twitter feeds. So those were all huge. For the first week,

1:05:49I'd say those were the high points is people with great audiences linking to me and saying

1:05:55this thing exists now. Were you worried? Like, you know, and I don't mean this in like a jokey way,

1:06:05but you are still Jason Snow.

1:06:08Yes, as ever.

1:06:11You know, and like so that does, it does help, right?

1:06:15Been that way for a while now, like 43 years or so, yeah.

1:06:18Well, did you have concern? You know, did you think...

1:06:24I love the past tense of this, I have concern, I have ongoing concern.

1:06:28Okay, that people wouldn't find you or that

1:06:31the site wouldn't go, you know, it's...

1:06:36I've seen it, I've seen this happen before where, you know,

1:06:39just because, uh, it's just, it's easy to lose track of people and, and starting

1:06:44websites, having started some websites for IDG, starting websites is hard.

1:06:49People don't know they exist. I still have people, there was a guy on

1:06:52Twitter yesterday who, who said, "I didn't realize that you were doing all these

1:06:57other, other podcasts at The Incomparable. I

1:06:59thought you were just doing the incomparable. It's like, I don't know how many different ways I could

1:07:03have communicated that, and yet he just completely missed it until yesterday. And so, you know,

1:07:09you can lay your plans and publicize and all of those things, but the fact is, any transition,

1:07:16you're going to lose people and potentially a lot of people. So you've got to try to be as diligent

1:07:22as possible to communicate that. And, you know, honestly, it would have been much easier on me

1:07:29if I could have gone to XOXO after the layoff and not worked on an iPhone

1:07:38review there and then come home afterward not having worked on an iPhone

1:07:42review or launched a website and taken some time to deal with some of my

1:07:46burnout of my couple years at IDG that have been the rougher years and to spend

1:07:52some more time with my family and to read some books and to just decompress a

1:07:56little bit and I didn't do that and in fact I was home from XOXO for a good two

1:08:01hours and I'd launched a brand new website and why did I do that? I did that

1:08:05because of the timing because the iPhone release, the fact I had the iPhones in

1:08:09advance, we were doing our podcast, all of these things lined up. It was an

1:08:13opportunity for me to expose the new stuff I was doing to an audience that

1:08:19was going to be paying attention at that moment and if I let that moment go I

1:08:24I might never get that audience again.

1:08:28And so I had to do it.

1:08:29So I did it and it might not be what I would have chosen,

1:08:34but given the cards I was dealt,

1:08:36I think it was the thing I needed to do

1:08:38because you risk just being lost in the shuffle.

1:08:41There are a lot of voices out there

1:08:43and momentum and inertia is a powerful force.

1:08:48It's just like, I've been reading these sites,

1:08:50I'll continue to read these sites.

1:08:51And so to make some noise and I've been very happy,

1:08:53people said very nice things and people have linked to me and that's actually been amazing.

1:08:57I'm really grateful that people have been so nice.

1:09:01But I felt like I needed to take those steps and not just take a break and not do anything

1:09:06for a few weeks because the timing was too good and I, you know, I risked giving away

1:09:12that audience and maybe never finding it again.

1:09:16What's it been like working without an editor?

1:09:19I'm assuming that you, well you mentioned it actually, that you worked with editors

1:09:22when you wrote pieces at Macworld. I'm assuming you don't have an editor now, it's just you?

1:09:28It's just me. Well, we all have an editor, it's the internet, and many of us have Chris

1:09:33Pepper as an editor. If you don't know Chris Pepper, he's a guy, I've had pizza with him

1:09:38in New York, he is an obsessive reader of tech stuff, he saves it all to Instapaper

1:09:42and reads it, and then he finds mistakes and emails them to you, which we refer to as getting

1:09:47peppered.

1:09:48Who's me?

1:09:49- Who's me?

1:09:50- And I was, oh, everybody who works at Macworld,

1:09:53everybody who works at Tidbits, Chris gets around,

1:09:56but I got peppered on my first day at Six Colors,

1:10:00and that was, I was honored to be peppered.

1:10:03And I do read, you know, I spell check everything,

1:10:05and I read everything in preview, and then you post it,

1:10:09and then there are things that are wrong,

1:10:10and you have to change them.

1:10:11And that's different, 'cause I did like running,

1:10:17doing a sanity check on articles at Macworld

1:10:19where it was literally like, here's a preview URL,

1:10:22can you give this a read before I push it live?

1:10:23And I don't have that now.

1:10:25So I'm trying to spend a little more time with it,

1:10:27but they're gonna be errors because I'm just a guy.

1:10:29I always send IMs to Gruber when he posts things

1:10:32where there's a, if I see a mistake

1:10:34or he's got a bad markdown link or something,

1:10:36I'll just send him an IM saying,

1:10:38I noticed this and he fixes it and says, thanks.

1:10:41And it doesn't happen that often, but it happens.

1:10:43It happens to all of us.

1:10:43So it's different and I'm trying to pay,

1:10:48I'm adding cycles to it.

1:10:49It used to be, I just paste it in and say,

1:10:51hey, somebody look at this.

1:10:52And now I paste it in and then I read it in the editor

1:10:56and then I preview it and I read it in the web browser

1:10:59and then I post it.

1:11:00And then there's an amazing thing that happens,

1:11:02which is as soon as the story is live,

1:11:04even though you were previewing it in the template

1:11:07all along, as soon as it's live,

1:11:08then you see all the mistakes, as soon as it's live.

1:11:11So that's been different.

1:11:13But it's fine, it's fine.

1:11:14I've been pretty comfortable writing stuff.

1:11:18I don't feel like my stuff needs a major overhaul

1:11:21or anything and I think people are seeing on six colors

1:11:23that this is what I sound like.

1:11:26And I've sounded like this for a while now.

1:11:28I just, I'm a pretty good speller, so.

1:11:31But there will be mistakes and that's gonna be weird.

1:11:35- Do you know if Chris Pepper is @repep on Twitter?

1:11:38- That's him.

1:11:40- Found him.

1:11:40- Repep or backward on Twitter.

1:11:42- Oh, yeah, of course it is.

1:11:44- Yeah, Repep.

1:11:45And that's, yes, he is the internet's copy editor.

1:11:49(laughing)

1:11:52- How's the reception been, like in general?

1:11:57I'm assuming you've received lots of emails and stuff.

1:12:00- People have been very kind, I've received lots of emails.

1:12:02I got a lot of emails when I left Macworld,

1:12:04and then I got another batch with six colors

1:12:06where people said, "I'm glad you're doing this."

1:12:07So yeah, I felt bad about Macworld,

1:12:09I like reading your stuff, I'm looking forward to it.

1:12:11And it's all very kind and I hope I can live up

1:12:13to their expectations for me.

1:12:15But it's all been very nice.

1:12:16I have not yet had my first negative interaction

1:12:21where somebody says something absolutely awful

1:12:23about something I've written or calls me a name

1:12:26or says something about, I had that for my temporary site,

1:12:30for the Snell world, just my announcement,

1:12:32that somebody was a jerk about that site.

1:12:35But it's coming and then I'll know I've truly,

1:12:38well and truly made it when somebody's a jerk about something that I've written.

1:12:43But it hasn't happened yet. People have been very nice.

1:12:45Ironically, it was a guy who said, "Well, no wonder Macworld went out of business when

1:12:50Jason Snell's personal site isn't responsive and doesn't load properly on an iPhone."

1:12:55I saw that.

1:12:56And that was great because, one, oh, if I had any control over what the Macworld website

1:13:01looked like or any influence over it whatsoever when there was a large technical organization

1:13:07running it and I yeah not not not my not my part of the business all I could do

1:13:13was try to encourage them but I was very limited and then the real irony is that

1:13:18the reason that snow world calm wasn't responsive is because I was busy

1:13:21building all the six color stuff to be responsive and I didn't backport it to

1:13:26snow world because I was busy building my new thing and hadn't thought about

1:13:29the fact that I needed to move the CSS back because it's on the same templates

1:13:33basically and so then that guy was a jerk and I told him he was a jerk and

1:13:36then I made it responsive. So yeah, thanks jerk. In his face, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the

1:13:44connection was just being... that was why he was a jerk. It's not that he was wrong

1:13:47that the site should have been better on the iPhone. He was wrong because

1:13:52he was making lots of connections that are not accurate to make a jerky point

1:13:57and be insulting. So you know that's why he was a jerk. But he was right that

1:14:01the site should have been responsive and like five minutes later it was. You bought

1:14:07the correct URL this week. So yes, six colors is spelled out and and somebody

1:14:15was asking in the chat room if I if I looked at the numeral six colors and I

1:14:19did it I think it cost like 1,500 bucks so I haven't bought it but I did buy six

1:14:25colors with color spelled with a U dot com. I didn't buy sixcolors.co.uk or anything like

1:14:32that but I did buy S-I-X-C-O-L-O-U-R-S dot com and it redirects to the correct spelling

1:14:38without the U. I have hopes in the future of creating a site that dynamically loads

1:14:44the existing Six Colors site and replaces all of the words with Britishisms and I'll

1:14:50let you know if that happens.

1:14:51I can't even...

1:14:55I'm sure that... There may be flags and pictures of the queen and things put in

1:14:59there too at that point.

1:15:00Right now it just redirects to the regular six color site.

1:15:04I did it for you, Myke.

1:15:05Thank you.

1:15:06You know, I was thinking about just buying you the domain.

1:15:11Starting like a kick star or something and getting you the domain.

1:15:14So thank you so much

1:15:16for...

1:15:18basically because

1:15:20I feel like it was done for me because I kept typing the URL incorrectly.

1:15:24That was a big thing.

1:15:27I guess I'm going to say it was good for you too.

1:15:30Because it means that people that are in--

1:15:33People bookmark things.

1:15:36I don't think people type out URLs very often,

1:15:38but that seemed like a natural.

1:15:40And if I could buy the numeral six domains cheaply,

1:15:43I would probably do that too.

1:15:45But last time I checked, I think they were really pricey,

1:15:47and I didn't think it was worth the money.

1:15:49sixcolors.com wasn't that expensive with the U.

1:15:51And so, so yeah, there it is.

1:15:54Rule Britannia, USA, USA.

1:15:57We are all, we're all coming together.

1:15:58- And you're really gunning for me now

1:16:00with this podcast stuff.

1:16:02You have another one.

1:16:05- There are lots of podcasts out there

1:16:07and I'm not the only person who is on lots of podcasts.

1:16:09I'm somebody who's on lots of podcasts,

1:16:12but so were you and there are others, but yeah,

1:16:15I, one of the things I wanted to do

1:16:17when I made this decision to leave was do some dust some things off that were

1:16:22podcasts that I wanted to do and didn't have the time and so one of those was to

1:16:26do a tech podcast and that's this one and one of those was I know that the guy

1:16:31who's the chief TV critic at The Hollywood Reporter and he's really good

1:16:34on podcasts but he's not technically adept enough to do the produce the

1:16:39podcast himself he needs somebody to help him with that and that's Tim Goodman

1:16:42and so we're now doing a TV podcast together we're like every Friday we're

1:16:46going to do a recording session and I'll edit it and post it and sort of like what you're

1:16:50doing with me. And that was on my list and it's really his show that I'm sort of the

1:16:56conductor of, sort of like how we work on this show. But I wanted to get his voice out

1:17:01there and now I've got the time to do that that I didn't really have when I was working

1:17:07during the day in San Francisco because his time was limited and my time was limited and

1:17:12we couldn't find common times. So yeah, I'm doing, you know, I'm still doing stuff on

1:17:17the incomparable and then I'm doing the two podcasts on Relay.

1:17:22That's about the end of my interview. What do you like to be known for?

1:17:28No, ask me later. Ask me later. It's too early. You already asked me that once this year.

1:17:34You don't get to ask me again for a while. It's pretty different for you now though.

1:17:38Yeah. Yeah. What do I like to be known for? I don't know. Am I known for anything? Known

1:17:42for writing things and podcasting that people like, hopefully. Known for the world domination

1:17:48of all podcasts. I swear I'm not going to be on every podcast ever. This was a very

1:17:52weird week. I've had people say, "You're on every podcast right now." Yes, but in the

1:17:57end I will only be on the podcast that I'm on and not like every other podcast.

1:18:01That goes in cycles for people though. Like when Overcast came out, Marco was on every

1:18:07podcast you know people have specific news right and that brings them to

1:18:12podcasts and it also makes people more inclined to want to be on them well and

1:18:18I want I do want people to also think of me and visit my site so I'm doing a

1:18:22little bit it's a little bit like a book tour in that way I am talking to Leo

1:18:27Laporte about being on his shows a little more often because I have the

1:18:31time now and it's a half an hour drive there at Twit Studios or half an hour

1:18:35for my house. So I'm hopefully going to be on Twit and MacBreak Weekly a little more often.

1:18:41But yeah, this is what I'm doing is, some people were like, "Oh, so now you're going to just do

1:18:49podcasts," or, "So now you're just going to do writing." And neither of those is accurate. My

1:18:54goal right now, and again, this may change, my goal is to do tech writing and tech podcasting

1:19:02and pop culture podcasting as all of those things,

1:19:06as those are the things I do.

1:19:07And from that, hopefully fashion some sort of a career

1:19:11that allows me to pay my mortgage payment

1:19:13and feed my kids and stuff like that.

1:19:15And we'll see how it goes.

1:19:17- There was a very brief moment there

1:19:20where I thought you were saying

1:19:21you wanted to do fashion writing?

1:19:22- No.

1:19:25- He was like, and fashion.

1:19:26- And fashion. - A career.

1:19:27- A career, yes. - I was like, oh, okay.

1:19:29- And fashion. - We're going down

1:19:30that route now.

1:19:31going to do fashion writing, I'm going to do fashion designing, and you can just stay

1:19:34tuned for my fall collection. I'll give you a hint though, how many colors do you think

1:19:40will be in the collection?

1:19:42Seven.

1:19:43Yes, infrared is one of the colors. Anyway, yeah, so that's my ideas, you know, podcasts,

1:19:51videos, writing, see what, this is the 21st century, you know, media is a different world

1:19:56now and if I can find a way to make this all work, you know, we've talked about it before,

1:20:00You know, your goal is to do this as your job.

1:20:04And that's sort of been my goal, and I'm already at the point where I don't have that other

1:20:08job, and that was sort of not my...

1:20:09It was my direction, but ultimately the date and day of it were not my decision, but I

1:20:16welcome it.

1:20:17And so I'm on that side now of trying to make it work, and we'll see what happens.

1:20:23If you would like to catch the show notes for this week's episode of Upgrade, then you

1:20:27want to go to relay.fm/upgrade/2. This show records live every Monday at 12 p.m. Pacific

1:20:38Time which is 3 p.m. Eastern Time and 7 p.m. GMT. We are @_upgradefm on Twitter. If you

1:20:51want to get in contact with us you can also email us by going to relay.fm/upgrade and

1:20:57you can hit the contact button and it will send us a lovely email. If you would like

1:21:03to catch up with us personally, Jason is @jsnail on Twitter and I am @imike and don't forget

1:21:106colors.com for all of Jason's fantastic writing all throughout the week and the weekends too

1:21:17maybe sometimes. Weekends too? Do you work weekends now?

1:21:20Well I'm still trying to figure, I'm trying to have some life work balance but I've been

1:21:24putting some links up on the weekend of various things. I should mention also our theme song

1:21:29is brought to you by the lovely and talented podcast composer extraordinaire Mr. Christopher

1:21:35Breen. So thank you to Chris for doing the theme song.

1:21:39I love the flavor of the incomparable in there. I can feel it. It's good.

1:21:44It's that Breen magic that comes with podcast themes from Breen. Yeah.

1:21:49Themes from Breen.

1:21:50Yep, the Breen Themes. Coming soon to iTunes, Breen Themes.

1:21:54We'll be back next week. Thank you so much for listening. Bye bye.

1:21:58Bye everybody.

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