The Accidental Tech Podcast

202: Something Has Gone Wrong

 

  not only did we just talk last night [TS]

  because we're recording this episode a [TS]

  week ahead of time for the holiday break [TS]

  it was barely yesterday [TS]

  not only that but I've heard you guys in [TS]

  my headphones all day with every last [TS]

  night so fast I can get published today [TS]

  I'm leaving town tomorrow right so yeah [TS]

  that was so I basically it's like I'm [TS]

  just living with you now which is kind [TS]

  of cool what you know you you're my [TS]

  friend so it works out well but yeah I [TS]

  certainly have heard a lot of you in the [TS]

  last twenty-four John Craig siracusa i [TS]

  have received a hundred and fifty-eight [TS]

  friggin emails today thanks to your [TS]

  tweet yeah thanks a lot John first of [TS]

  all I told you about that was gonna do [TS]

  this and so you get a little yeah but [TS]

  you never said that you were going to [TS]

  solicit the speed back the freaking [TS]

  email i was hoping you would be via [TS]

  Twitter well so here I guess I told you [TS]

  I was gonna listen to feedback marker [TS]

  was like how we can do it five minutes [TS]

  before but now you can do five minutes [TS]

  for going to collect this stuff so what [TS]

  I wanted to do was use this piece of [TS]

  software called back channel it's like [TS]

  back chandana NL which I thought was [TS]

  like a domain and i'll just go to back [TS]

  champs on Ellen and just use it right [TS]

  they say what you like SurveyMonkey or [TS]

  the million other places where you can [TS]

  go to do some you know single-purpose [TS]

  thing with the web app or i'll just [TS]

  point people to a weird URL and say hey [TS]

  go here and into your questions and less [TS]

  people both the questions up you know [TS]

  what I mean like with it what is this [TS]

  URL bat ba ck c h KN Darnell Darnell but [TS]

  it's not a URL like I thought it was a [TS]

  URL because gonna take this doesn't work [TS]

  what is actually is a software project [TS]

  it's a PHP thing I think there's no way [TS]

  I was gonna like install PHP thing who [TS]

  would write but anyway I what I was [TS]

  looking for is a simple way for people [TS]

  to enter questions and other people to [TS]

  vote them with some reasonable control [TS]

  so cool she wouldn't do it because the [TS]

  new ones for whatever number they wanted [TS]

  the votes column and then we have to go [TS]

  back through the history to see you did [TS]

  it's all pointless read it would have [TS]

  worked but we know how I feel about that [TS]

  and so I said about short notice I'm [TS]

  just gonna tweet it and we'll just use [TS]

  the feedback form which will provide [TS]

  some semblance of uniformity and that [TS]

  we're hoping most of you I will come [TS]

  through that and that people read all [TS]

  the stuff that says we're going to read [TS]

  your name on the air [TS]

  blah blah blah and I think it worked out [TS]

  pretty well what we'll find out how well [TS]

  work tomorrow if they followed the very [TS]

  important all caps instruction which was [TS]

  today only tomorrow if we get another [TS]

  hundred questions then you know well my [TS]

  bad right now goodly that tweet [TS]

  I'm telling you there's no dignity [TS]

  actually this is a good idea people find [TS]

  it like in three weeks and being still [TS]

  be telling us things because it doesn't [TS]

  want to start today [TS]

  all right go to it that the only thing [TS]

  you can do you do that is the smartest [TS]

  thing [TS]

  Marco I think you've ever said in your [TS]

  entire life but then after after I [TS]

  wanted him five or you should go with me [TS]

  to pick up my m5 those are always good [TS]

  with that but actually Tiffany got a new [TS]

  car like an hour ago [TS]

  oh really yeah it was like the lease was [TS]

  up and we had we just got the same thing [TS]

  again the 340g yeah i didn't i didn't [TS]

  realize you'd actually ordered it I [TS]

  remember you being in in conversation [TS]

  with the dealer button [TS]

  I didn't know you had pulled the trigger [TS]

  the best thing about this i can finally [TS]

  close like four browser tabs the best [TS]

  feeling ever isn't it [TS]

  oh yeah right John was that whole window [TS]

  yeah the window with those tabs in it [TS]

  uh-huh [TS]

  hey I'm in the interest of full [TS]

  disclosure I did go on a tacky like tour [TS]

  tonight i have had a holiday gathering I [TS]

  would not say I've had a holiday party [TS]

  so just let me know that I have a small [TS]

  holiday get-together on my desk as well [TS]

  we'll see how this goes from Belgium I [TS]

  had a glass of water in a dogfish al [TS]

  class today I'll see you must be [TS]

  hammered i was we were out of a [TS]

  restaurant I guess all their cups for [TS]

  Dogfish Head ale or whatever that [TS]

  company is the marker likes the the beer [TS]

  from ya dumb shit you know [TS]

  yeah I don't have a sponsor the place or [TS]

  whatever but yeah those were the water [TS]

  glasses [TS]

  you could at least got a sprite Joan and [TS]

  I deleted that tweet so the world is [TS]

  safe [TS]

  thank you i'm looking at my red badge on [TS]

  my ldap a hundred nine you damned yeah I [TS]

  I got to be honest i have read almost [TS]

  none of the questions that came in my [TS]

  email because I've been I I've had such [TS]

  a busy day that I didn't have time to [TS]

  read a hundred and fifty knew him a [TS]

  little but in addition to what i [TS]

  normally get right we'll get to that [TS]

  portion of the show eventually i will [TS]

  really explain it or explain it as the [TS]

  case may be it to both of you in the [TS]

  audience let's get started so let's [TS]

  start with some follow-up a friend of [TS]

  the show Ryan Jones had [TS]

  is corroborated what we had theorized on [TS]

  the last episode he says no I'm quoting [TS]

  airpot lightning port is exactly the [TS]

  same as the iPhone port everybody chill [TS]

  well you know the iphone 7 that shown in [TS]

  this picture comes with the big fat [TS]

  cable the covers over the whole thing [TS]

  just like we discussed that show like [TS]

  the fat one actually does cover it you [TS]

  know em for the headphones anyway I [TS]

  guess for the charging thing it doesn't [TS]

  and I think it's a little bit more [TS]

  noticeable on the air pots because [TS]

  everything is all white shiny plastic [TS]

  and you're plugging a white shiny [TS]

  plastic thing into it and then it's just [TS]

  a little bit poking out on a regular [TS]

  iphone i imagine people have noticed [TS]

  this before and you know that the ledges [TS]

  poke out past the thing but of course [TS]

  internet being what it is this picture [TS]

  which many people have posted similar [TS]

  things didn't stop people they said well [TS]

  you know what that means that means the [TS]

  iphone 7 must be USBC to change their [TS]

  mind [TS]

  you can't stop the conspiracy theorist [TS]

  anyway it just looks like this is what [TS]

  lighting parts look like people and [TS]

  sometimes the plastic part doesn't [TS]

  extend all into the end of the little [TS]

  opening also i'd like to acknowledge [TS]

  that we have we finished recording the [TS]

  last episode 26 hours ago 25 hours ago [TS]

  something like that and we did indeed [TS]

  have one piece of follow-up amazing [TS]

  well people are fast and it could've [TS]

  been real-time follow-up if we were a [TS]

  little bit you know this was 11 i guess [TS]

  the post 1144 am today but I'm sure [TS]

  somebody in the chatroom said this [TS]

  during the thing we missed it [TS]

  indeed alright moving on are we going to [TS]

  talk i guess [TS]

  gianmarco you really want to talk about [TS]

  the mark harmon article don't you [TS]

  so do you everybody does who doesn't I [TS]

  slightly do alright let me sit back and [TS]

  get comfortable may be invited to [TS]

  another party here right [TS]

  alright let's get started so mark urman [TS]

  wrote a post on Bloomberg which is [TS]

  obviously works now why it's entitled [TS]

  how Apple alienated Mac loyalists and [TS]

  whether or not you agree with the [TS]

  premise of the article whether or not [TS]

  you like the article the premise of the [TS]

  article is you know if you look at the [TS]

  situation here [TS]

  the mac is kind of an also-ran it's kind [TS]

  of a it's it's the tag along in in [TS]

  Apple's portfolio and it's becoming more [TS]

  and more clear that it's of less [TS]

  importance to apple than it ever has [TS]

  been in the past and there's some [TS]

  interesting factoids which i'm sure [TS]

  we'll get into about why the mac does it [TS]

  does not matter there's some interesting [TS]

  facts that actually may not be accurate [TS]

  as told to us by some little birdies [TS]

  about whether or not the software teams [TS]

  were realigned or or misaligned or just [TS]

  generally differently aligned in in the [TS]

  effort to make the things for the mac [TS]

  better or worse it's an interesting [TS]

  article and it is worth reading [TS]

  i am i'm not sure what to make of it but [TS]

  but i'm curious to hear what the two of [TS]

  you have to say so since I've learned [TS]

  from the last episode let's start with [TS]

  john-john what you think about this now [TS]

  you don't together for this one [TS]

  particular topic [TS]

  yeah i think it's like one there's only [TS]

  one piece of new ish rumor going to send [TS]

  you information but they are no new [TS]

  information new rumor the that's the [TS]

  only thing as far as I can recall having [TS]

  read this thing up let's go now that was [TS]

  in there and that was the story about [TS]

  how the new macbook pros one of the [TS]

  things that that Apple looked into is [TS]

  having differently shaped batteries to [TS]

  basically find find more places to shop [TS]

  battery in the thing and it doesn't mean [TS]

  that the same as the scalp batteries [TS]

  because that would make sense because [TS]

  it's not it's not tapered but instead of [TS]

  just having a couple rectangles have [TS]

  been to the nice rectangle parts having [TS]

  more oddly shaped batteries they can [TS]

  fill more nooks and crannies with [TS]

  battery and that didn't work out for [TS]

  whatever reason according to this [TS]

  article and so they went with the more [TS]

  boring shape battery which meant less [TS]

  battery richmond less battery life and [TS]

  that's a new presentation of some [TS]

  information [TS]

  literally everything else in this [TS]

  article i think is just a summary and [TS]

  reiteration of all of [TS]

  the cranky mac users stuff that has been [TS]

  going on the internet and on this [TS]

  podcast for a long period including the [TS]

  bit that a lot of people i think that [TS]

  was in the parking lot of people are [TS]

  going on like that Apple is this article [TS]

  the apple doesn't have a dedicated macro [TS]

  base group anymore it yes it says about [TS]

  about software at least not about [TS]

  hardware right I'm and that's unless I'm [TS]

  missing some detail that is not in this [TS]

  article and again it would help if this [TS]

  article acknowledge the thing about to [TS]

  say and clarified it for me but Apple [TS]

  unified software under Craig a long time [TS]

  ago like there used to be someone who [TS]

  are in iOS and someone who ran Makka [TS]

  what was then called Mac os10 and [TS]

  eventually I was 10 and mac OS those [TS]

  were separate and then they were [TS]

  combined right and so it's not that's [TS]

  not news [TS]

  now if they mean okay so that happened [TS]

  but now i actually really even within [TS]

  the organization there's not a [TS]

  bifurcation I think the article should [TS]

  have acknowledged the past thing and [TS]

  said now I know what you're thinking [TS]

  didn't they already do that when they [TS]

  put Craig federighi tried everything [TS]

  no even then they were still to separate [TS]

  the gardens and say that so I don't know [TS]

  quite what to think that'd be the way I [TS]

  don't see that as a big deal because [TS]

  unifying all software and all OS efforts [TS]

  under a single group makes sense to me [TS]

  more than having them be walled off from [TS]

  each other because the core OS is [TS]

  essentially the same plus or minus you [TS]

  know differences needed for each [TS]

  individual platform and there's so much [TS]

  here between them and so many api's and [TS]

  things that go between them like the [TS]

  extension mechanism xbc and just that it [TS]

  makes perfect sense to not have them [TS]

  walled off into like this is the iOS [TS]

  group and this is the Mac os10 group and [TS]

  occasionally they cooperate so I don't [TS]

  see that as a particular newsworthy [TS]

  either and i also don't understand what [TS]

  it means that most of the team's iOS [TS]

  first I mean they're working on iOS i [TS]

  can imagine there are more people [TS]

  working on it because it is the more [TS]

  important operating system is also the [TS]

  younger bond and that has the hardware [TS]

  the changes that is changing the most [TS]

  and you know like but what does it mean [TS]

  to be iOS vs if the entire most of them [TS]

  are iOS first I don't know that this not [TS]

  enough information to get worked up [TS]

  about and so unless there's some other [TS]

  nuance that were missing here that [TS]

  wasn't included the article i'm going to [TS]

  say yeah so the groups are combined [TS]

  that's fine and that [TS]

  not a big deal i'll let Marco say what [TS]

  he thinks about this first but there is [TS]

  one reason i wanted to talk about this [TS]

  that is doesn't have to do with the [TS]

  specifics of the article except to say [TS]

  that this is a thing now that every [TS]

  publication feels like they need to have [TS]

  a mac malaise article where they talk [TS]

  about either cranky mac users or Apple [TS]

  failing those mac users or both and some [TS]

  story about how the mac is fading and [TS]

  stuff like that so that is the season [TS]

  for that kind of article and this was [TS]

  sure one of them [TS]

  yeah i mean i honestly don't have a lot [TS]

  to say about this specific article i do [TS]

  obviously as we all know have a lot to [TS]

  say about the topic of the state of the [TS]

  mac and and apple seemingly neglecting [TS]

  things that I care about but I this [TS]

  particular article as is typical with [TS]

  Markham articles contains a few solid [TS]

  new you know stated facts whether to [TS]

  regard we don't know but stated as fact [TS]

  you know if you knew information bits [TS]

  but then this whole narrative around it [TS]

  that is questionable and and of a lot [TS]

  less credibility you know German has [TS]

  very good sources for facts but he often [TS]

  gets the story and the narrative wrong [TS]

  or the reasons wrong so we have to take [TS]

  everything that everything in this [TS]

  that's about reasons or people's [TS]

  feelings or what they you know what they [TS]

  think or whatever why do things take all [TS]

  that with a grain of salt because that [TS]

  you know that could all be completely [TS]

  bogus or at least misleading or or not [TS]

  are missing some kind of subtle [TS]

  distinction or detail so what we have to [TS]

  work with here you know john darnell it [TS]

  like there's not a lot of new stuff here [TS]

  and and then the stuff that is new like [TS]

  that they tried potentially terrorist [TS]

  batteries in the 20 2016 9 macbook pro [TS]

  yeah it's not that interesting if they [TS]

  would a cram but more battery into it [TS]

  would have been heavier batteries are [TS]

  heavy empty gaps around the square [TS]

  batteries are very lightweight so if the [TS]

  if they would have like one of the [TS]

  reasons this laptop is so pleasant to [TS]

  use is that it is noticeably lighter [TS]

  than the previous one if it was less [TS]

  lighter than the previous one [TS]

  then it wouldn't be as good of an update [TS]

  so that's kind of a non-story with that [TS]

  they tried these different battery in it [TS]

  and you know they tried lots of things [TS]

  and there's a reason why not everything [TS]

  ships and you know that that isn't that [TS]

  important that was another one of the [TS]

  stories they had was about the macbook [TS]

  that they had a bigger one and everyone [TS]

  and they want the skinny one but like [TS]

  but again the conclusion like you know [TS]

  they you know they picked the latter one [TS]

  and then you know the the engineers have [TS]

  less time to figure out how to cram all [TS]

  the electronics into the thin one like [TS]

  the idea that they did the the way the [TS]

  companies working is trying bunch of [TS]

  different approaches then eventually [TS]

  pick one and then the the narrative that [TS]

  just leaves the engineer scrambling to [TS]

  get the final one done like welcome to [TS]

  apple yeah that approach that I've [TS]

  trying multiple ideas IIIi first I don't [TS]

  think its new look underneath all jony [TS]

  ive's black cloths and as things got [TS]

  tons of you know that right tons of [TS]

  stuff and then eventually pick one and [TS]

  there's lots of time pressure to do and [TS]

  so on and so forth but I'm it again if [TS]

  you're going to make this argument you [TS]

  have to add more has to be like this is [TS]

  a thing you know in the past they did X [TS]

  and the results were why now they're [TS]

  doing Z and the results are cute like [TS]

  that you need need something to tie [TS]

  together instead of just saying they did [TS]

  this thing and this is what happened [TS]

  yeah is that any different than [TS]

  literally every other piece of hardware [TS]

  they made in the past 10 years or is it [TS]

  the same the articles and saying one way [TS]

  or the other were led to believe this is [TS]

  a nefarious terrible thing that two [TS]

  possible approaches to a product we're [TS]

  done one of them didn't work out they [TS]

  picked one and then it was a it was a [TS]

  difficult task to get that one done in [TS]

  time were led to believe that is a sign [TS]

  that I don't know that they don't care [TS]

  about the mac i mean if anything they [TS]

  care about Marcus they're doing twice [TS]

  the work and throwing half of it away is [TS]

  I don't know it's the article so [TS]

  confused [TS]

  yeah I I feel like I feel like German [TS]

  really he got a few good fact and he [TS]

  really wanted to tell this story and so [TS]

  he he kind of shoved the fact into the [TS]

  story he wanted to tell but it doesn't [TS]

  all make good sense it is not you know [TS]

  it isn't it isn't a great fit in some [TS]

  cases and and it's honestly you know not [TS]

  to pick on government too much because [TS]

  pretty much every journalist I've ever [TS]

  had any dealings with has done exactly [TS]

  the same kind of thing you know the game [TS]

  the story is usually decided up front [TS]

  and the fact [TS]

  found supported and you know I have my [TS]

  own theory about what the narrative is [TS]

  for the the problems that the mac is [TS]

  having inside of apple and a lot of it [TS]

  lines up with this so like I i want to [TS]

  agree with this I want to believe it but [TS]

  the fact is there's very few facts here [TS]

  to support the story and especially very [TS]

  few new facts so the larger point I [TS]

  wanted to make about this whole topic is [TS]

  something I keep in mind every time we [TS]

  discuss it and and in general is I don't [TS]

  think about it before [TS]

  imagine for a second that [TS]

  well we fast-forward 20 years and look [TS]

  back and realize that what's actually [TS]

  happening during this period is that pc [TS]

  and desktop computing is slowly fading [TS]

  away as a thing if you are a fan of that [TS]

  type of thing as we are during the time [TS]

  when it was fading away i'm not sure it [TS]

  would feel any differently than we feel [TS]

  about Apple doing this stuff now and I [TS]

  can we can we tell the difference [TS]

  between Apple not prioritizing the mac [TS]

  and that being the wrong thing to do and [TS]

  us being you know indignant and angry [TS]

  and telling Apple you should be doing [TS]

  this but you're doing that instead and [TS]

  you're making a mistake and it's really [TS]

  important for you to this role these [TS]

  reasons you know someone so forth the [TS]

  kind of like why Apple should have a mac [TS]

  pro which I wrote a thing about a sort [TS]

  of Marco recently and you know what what [TS]

  the needs of our users are over it i [TS]

  don't think it would feel any different [TS]

  from our perspective if we're right or [TS]

  if you're wrong [TS]

  like it feels the same either way and I [TS]

  and I keep that in mind because it's [TS]

  like I mean doesn't really change i feel [TS]

  i still wish they would pay more [TS]

  attention to the mac but every once in a [TS]

  while I have a moment of clarity and say [TS]

  well say Apple is doing exactly the [TS]

  right thing and we are yelling and [TS]

  screaming and trying to tell them to do [TS]

  the wrong thing I don't it's difficult [TS]

  for me to like to distinguish those two [TS]

  scenarios and out i mostly disagree that [TS]

  they are doing the right thing I think [TS]

  they're doing the wrong thing but [TS]

  something is not for a second the other [TS]

  part i take you know set that thought [TS]

  experiment leave it over there and then [TS]

  say okay [TS]

  let's say Apple is right and this is a [TS]

  technology that the product in a style [TS]

  of working and everything is fading from [TS]

  view it will die with us because we're [TS]

  at last group of people who ever going [TS]

  to care about this crap and actually the [TS]

  right thing travel to do is to get rid [TS]

  of it in that case I still have one more [TS]

  thing left to complain about Apple [TS]

  playing complain to apple about and [TS]

  that's that if that if they really [TS]

  believe that they should be honest about [TS]

  it they should they should hasten the [TS]

  transition they shouldn't string us [TS]

  along with a series of platitudes like [TS]

  we talked about last time like we've got [TS]

  great desktops and the imac is the best [TS]

  desktop are really dedicated to the mac [TS]

  and we love the mac and i think it's [TS]

  complicated by the fact that apple [TS]

  doesn't speak with one voice it is a you [TS]

  know especially after jobs is gone it's [TS]

  a company made up of a bunch of people [TS]

  and I think there are people inside [TS]

  Apple probably phil schiller probably [TS]

  even Craig very who feel the same way [TS]

  about the mac is we do only they're [TS]

  inside the company right so when they [TS]

  make statements like oh we think the mac [TS]

  is really important and we're really [TS]

  dedicated to the mac and blah blah i [TS]

  think that's the truth then they believe [TS]

  it right and to the extent of their [TS]

  power exists inside Apple they're trying [TS]

  to make that happen but it could be that [TS]

  opinion is not universal throughout the [TS]

  company and may not be the position that [TS]

  eventually win so we end up with this a [TS]

  company that perhaps is it has rightly [TS]

  like in the worst-case scenario for us [TS]

  that the company has rightly seeing that [TS]

  this this product in this way of [TS]

  computing is a relic and it needs to go [TS]

  away but instead of saying that instead [TS]

  of saying like i said last time instead [TS]

  of saying I laptop to the future there's [TS]

  no more desktops and the mac is going to [TS]

  be no more pretty soon it's a legacy [TS]

  platform as many of the scary articles [TS]

  have said the future is iOS we know this [TS]

  painful but it's going to happen sorry [TS]

  instead of saying that every time [TS]

  there's any crankiness about it from [TS]

  their customers they say reassuring [TS]

  things they say all don't worry like i [TS]

  know it seems like we don't care but we [TS]

  totally do it super important we love [TS]

  the mac blah blah blah and then they [TS]

  proceeded to you know their actions [TS]

  don't back that up big time and again [TS]

  their actions you know give us something [TS]

  throw a little crumb our way and then [TS]

  leave us hanging early know that the mac [TS]

  pro the trash can like they did this [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  and then left saying for three years and [TS]

  now we're not getting much of anything [TS]

  from the mac these days very far less [TS]

  frequent updates updates that are in a [TS]

  satisfying traditional mac users and we [TS]

  just get some you know random platitude [TS]

  so I i think that even if we are [TS]

  dinosaurs and we are the last generation [TS]

  of people thats ever going to care about [TS]

  this type of computing and it will fade [TS]

  away with us [TS]

  apple is not handling it the right way [TS]

  and if it turns out that actually this [TS]

  way of computing is not going away [TS]

  the temple is definitely not hailing the [TS]

  right way as discussed many times in the [TS]

  past but anyway that's that's the point [TS]

  I want to make all this type of articles [TS]

  is that if like us you are upset about [TS]

  the mac you always have to think that it [TS]

  could be that you are relatively you are [TS]

  the apple to user saying the mac is [TS]

  never gonna be the future you can't get [TS]

  real work done on the mac apple to [TS]

  forever right or any other thing you can [TS]

  paint over any other analogy buggy-whip [TS]

  salesman you know horse vs. automobile [TS]

  whatever whatever you wanna even radio [TS]

  vs television you know movies i put that [TS]

  you know the internet vs everything that [TS]

  came before it basically sometimes [TS]

  you're in that group that is being left [TS]

  behind and if if you are it looks and [TS]

  feels exactly the same as if the whole [TS]

  rest of the world is doing something [TS]

  terribly wrong you're the only one who [TS]

  knows about it and unfortunately it's [TS]

  difficult to say which way which way [TS]

  things are going to go until later so [TS]

  five years from now 10 years from now I [TS]

  think we'll have much more clarity about [TS]

  you know what it whether whether we [TS]

  ended up being right or wrong but either [TS]

  way right now I think making apple is [TS]

  Miss handling things in one direction or [TS]

  another so John as somebody who was at [TS]

  one point a ipod touch devotee g when [TS]

  did you when did you know that that was [TS]

  not the right way forward when did you [TS]

  know that the ipod touch was not the [TS]

  right device for you anymore [TS]

  i mean i-i think it was more than just [TS]

  you not wanting to pay for more [TS]

  expensive cell phone cell phone plan [TS]

  right so at what point did you say you [TS]

  know what the ipod touch is not long for [TS]

  this world or alternatively it's not [TS]

  satisfying my needs and it's time to get [TS]

  an iphone because I feel like that's a [TS]

  similar situation right like you seem to [TS]

  have been on the wrong side of that and [TS]

  it seems like the writer answer is to be [TS]

  an iphone person rather than an iPod [TS]

  Touch person now apples on the wrong [TS]

  side of that one hears that the that [TS]

  situation it's not like I wasn't [TS]

  changing from the Apple to the back or [TS]

  from the mac to an iOS device the ipod [TS]

  touch is an iphone minus the phone part [TS]

  like it's the same westroads the same [TS]

  experience it's not it's not a different [TS]

  is not different platform is not a [TS]

  different paradigm is not even form [TS]

  factor but it's basically the same exact [TS]

  thing now Apple did stop updating it to [TS]

  keep pace with the phone stuff but that [TS]

  was so easy to make that switch was like [TS]

  I'm not even changing anything like it [TS]

  it's literally the same thing only now [TS]

  there's a phone in it right and it's [TS]

  just faster and it's nicer and so that [TS]

  was that was an easy thing to make the [TS]

  reason I think Apple was wrong is [TS]

  because that's not a transition there's [TS]

  no there's no transition from ipod touch [TS]

  to iphone that Apple needed to make that [TS]

  need to get like the dinosaurs off of [TS]

  the you know the old platform and it's [TS]

  the same freaking thing they just [TS]

  decided that it wasn't as important and [TS]

  well I don't want to say they're wrong [TS]

  because they're probably right in terms [TS]

  of volume because i'd probably sell way [TS]

  more phones and those things who cares [TS]

  whatever but i want to say about them [TS]

  being wrong is there was no strictly [TS]

  speaking there was no strategic reason [TS]

  to migrate people off the ipod touch [TS]

  because it's not like a legacy platform [TS]

  it is the current platform it runs the [TS]

  current version of the OS it is it is [TS]

  getting people into the iOS ecosystem [TS]

  there's nothing about it that is counter [TS]

  to their broad strategy it's just you [TS]

  know doesn't sell as much and that they [TS]

  can justify the investment being updated [TS]

  or whatever so in that respect they're [TS]

  probably right but in terms of like [TS]

  having done the opposite they would not [TS]

  have been making a strategic mistake [TS]

  they just update that in lockstep with [TS]

  the rest of the iphones like they had [TS]

  done before everything would be fine [TS]

  they would be selling anymore ipod [TS]

  touches their ipod touch customers may [TS]

  be a little bit happier know about buddy [TS]

  buddy buddy you're right that is the one [TS]

  similarity that has is when they stopped [TS]

  updating it frequently enough and when I [TS]

  saw that if I really want the fastest [TS]

  iOS device available or anything even [TS]

  the ball [TS]

  park the only choice that has an iphone [TS]

  that's when I had to switch and like I [TS]

  said it was easy because it's the same [TS]

  it's the same thing as the same platform [TS]

  it's the same software everything turned [TS]

  off so market what do you think about [TS]

  all this i mean you've been stunningly [TS]

  quiet I i know you have some thoughts [TS]

  here so late on me and I almost don't [TS]

  know where to begin at that it's like [TS]

  pick up i also don't care you know two [TS]

  graphs of the I about the ipod touch but [TS]

  but the whole story about about what's [TS]

  going on with the mac I care very very [TS]

  much about its it's hard to know where [TS]

  to start so forgive me if this [TS]

  disorganized like most of what i say [TS]

  what bothers me about the discussion [TS]

  around this and about seemingly a [TS]

  position on this by they're mostly in [TS]

  action around a lot of the mac product [TS]

  line and the mac OS honestly is that you [TS]

  know it's to pull up the old Steve Jobs [TS]

  truck analogy which it's not an [TS]

  amazingly fitting analogy because you [TS]

  know cars and trucks are not computers [TS]

  and phones like that's that's not it [TS]

  doesn't fit incredibly well but there's [TS]

  enough parallels with what he was saying [TS]

  that that I think it's worth really [TS]

  going out for a second in trying to [TS]

  explain how I feel the way I feel as a [TS]

  as a not only as a Mac user but as a mac [TS]

  pro user really Apple is like the only [TS]

  manufacturer in the world of decent [TS]

  trucks and they discovered a few years [TS]

  ago that cars are more profitable and so [TS]

  they've decided you know what we're just [TS]

  hardly gonna update trucks anymore and [TS]

  we're just gonna not make the biggest [TS]

  ones anymore and you know most people [TS]

  don't need the biggest ones but some [TS]

  people do and what if it takes 20 years [TS]

  to develop a good truck making company [TS]

  so I i know this analogy is being [TS]

  stretched to hell and it is like long [TS]

  God and I'm abusing the crap out of it [TS]

  however Apple is abandoning parts of the [TS]

  market for which there is no substitute [TS]

  for what Apple has been making and if [TS]

  there are abandoning it the neglecting [TS]

  it and they might be abandoning it soon [TS]

  and everyone says you know the the Apple [TS]

  excuse errs who here discussion about [TS]

  this often respond with [TS]

  well they're doing is not making [TS]

  computers for you or this product just [TS]

  isn't for you anymore they don't care to [TS]

  satisfy your needs anymore but to some [TS]

  degree like it isn't that simple because [TS]

  these needs will continue to exist like [TS]

  people who who need max period to do [TS]

  their work and people who need high-end [TS]

  max also know or certain like you know [TS]

  high-end software and hardware needs [TS]

  those needs continue whether Apple feels [TS]

  like addressing them or not but if Apple [TS]

  has been addressing them all these years [TS]

  and then stops that leaves those people [TS]

  really screwed like with nothing because [TS]

  it isn't usually a simple as jumping to [TS]

  windows like unless unless what you do [TS]

  is as i described you know what about [TS]

  the service studio got two episodes ago [TS]

  you know if what you do is primarily [TS]

  like in in one adobe creative suite app [TS]

  or something like that where like it's [TS]

  it's an app available on both platforms [TS]

  and that's most of what you do you know [TS]

  for for your computer needs for that [TS]

  computer whatever like if they took a [TS]

  workstation or if it's a studio computer [TS]

  whatever that's a different story but [TS]

  for people who can only use the whole OS [TS]

  and you know integrated ways multiple [TS]

  software package maybe software that's [TS]

  only available on that OS you can't just [TS]

  like I'll just start using windows like [TS]

  no it isn't that simple and there's a [TS]

  lot of like investment both in not only [TS]

  software that you buy but also like [TS]

  they're ready custom software that is [TS]

  developed for this OS that doesn't exist [TS]

  on the other OS or if your developer [TS]

  like you've built your software library [TS]

  your codebase your customer base all on [TS]

  this OS so jump just tell people just [TS]

  use windows like that's not a great [TS]

  answer if Apple stops addressing a [TS]

  market in many cases those people are [TS]

  just completely out of luck and they're [TS]

  there seems to be this like it's like [TS]

  design virus like it's that this kind of [TS]

  like cult of saying no as a feature and [TS]

  it's almost as though like when when [TS]

  people back you know back when like [TS]

  Samsung first [TS]

  I started really ripping off apple [TS]

  heavily that is steve was still alive [TS]

  for that part the way people rip off [TS]

  apple would basically be like to look at [TS]

  some kind of superficial quality that [TS]

  Apple products have like oh everything [TS]

  is like rounded and has blue you know [TS]

  bulbous colors on whatever and it has no [TS]

  you know it removes ports or whatever [TS]

  like they would they would take some [TS]

  kind of super quality and just apply [TS]

  that as gospel without really [TS]

  understanding why that was done that way [TS]

  and without understanding that they were [TS]

  trade-offs involved and sometimes you [TS]

  shouldn't do things that way and like [TS]

  you know basically copying like a [TS]

  superficial attribute and just [TS]

  replicating it without understanding why [TS]

  without ever questioning it [TS]

  I almost feel like that's how Apple's [TS]

  designing their own product line now as [TS]

  like kind of repeating the old just I [TS]

  guess we can make it thinner because [TS]

  we're also going to do I guess we remove [TS]

  supports because that's the future in [TS]

  quotes but it's almost like they've lost [TS]

  track of why it's so why is sometimes [TS]

  worth moving things why it sometimes [TS]

  isn't and it's it's like they're saying [TS]

  no or removing things for the sake of [TS]

  saying no removing them and this is kind [TS]

  of permeating now the Apple commentary [TS]

  culture right now I'm kind of assuming [TS]

  that everything that apple takes away or [TS]

  makes worse is for the future and [TS]

  inevitable and it's it's universally a [TS]

  good thing of course that the course [TS]

  this was this was progress and they [TS]

  apply that same thinking too when Apple [TS]

  basically cuts off somebody's needs and [TS]

  so well that I guess they just don't [TS]

  feel like serving you anymore or you're [TS]

  not worth serving and by the way for a [TS]

  company where like you have quarterly [TS]

  results that keep going down and product [TS]

  lines that that the seems like the [TS]

  growth is being problematic for you i'm [TS]

  not sure it's the wisest move in the [TS]

  world to throw away market share that [TS]

  you've hard that you earn hard over the [TS]

  last decade or two like to tell somebody [TS]

  your needs are not worth surfing is [TS]

  a big slap in the face to them and that [TS]

  doesn't leave people happy with apple or [TS]

  likely to buy a lot of other apple stuff [TS]

  and so they're literally throwing away [TS]

  market share with everything they cut [TS]

  neglect or change for the worse or [TS]

  choose not to address you know they're [TS]

  literally throwing away market share and [TS]

  in in a market like the pc market where [TS]

  market share is hard to come by and [TS]

  there's not a ton of growth happening of [TS]

  the whole market the market as a whole [TS]

  that's kinda the opposite of what you [TS]

  should be doing really like the Apple [TS]

  should be trying to address more needs [TS]

  with the mac not fewer anyway going back [TS]

  to more than the more general stuff like [TS]

  I worried now that Apple does the apple [TS]

  and also commenting on the the Apple [TS]

  commenters all seem to support this [TS]

  notion unquestioningly that removing [TS]

  things and making things quote simpler [TS]

  which often of house cutting off [TS]

  people's needs and what they were doing [TS]

  that that's universally a good thing and [TS]

  I think that deserves more critical [TS]

  thinking at Apple I think that deserves [TS]

  more pushback and because sometimes that [TS]

  is the right answer but not every time [TS]

  and it really does seem like Apple has [TS]

  lost the ability to tell the difference [TS]

  what do you think about what I said [TS]

  before about how from the inside it's [TS]

  difficult to distinguish between the [TS]

  situation that you just drive in this [TS]

  situation where Apple's actually right [TS]

  and they're just not there being that [TS]

  they're not being honest maybe with [TS]

  themselves even but certainly not with [TS]

  us about the fact that we're moving away [TS]

  from it like you think you could tell [TS]

  the difference from our perspective [TS]

  whether whether we're just being left [TS]

  behind and it's painful or whether we're [TS]

  actually right and apples doing [TS]

  something stupid it [TS]

  I honestly I'd i don't know i don't have [TS]

  any way to know that you can you can [TS]

  look at the market there is a clear [TS]

  trend that Mobile is up and pc-style [TS]

  os's including Mac OS are down right and [TS]

  and that you know things things like you [TS]

  know like web browsing share you can see [TS]

  that going going way towards mobile now [TS]

  like it's obvious that's like wherewhere [TS]

  usage percentages are going I'm not yet [TS]

  convinced that it is inevitable that p [TS]

  see style computing is going to go away [TS]

  or even be incredibly marginalized and I [TS]

  don't think those are necessarily Givens [TS]

  I would be very surprised if either of [TS]

  those happened actually and great i'm [TS]

  wrong all the time so this is really [TS]

  gonna happen next year I don't know but [TS]

  what I what I see is a lot of common [TS]

  tasks moving two phones and tablets sure [TS]

  that's that's fine phones tablets are [TS]

  wonderful things i think obviously i [TS]

  think the phone is the way better thing [TS]

  but you know we we live in abundance in [TS]

  technology now we can have both [TS]

  cool that's fine but i think what we see [TS]

  is that even the most dedicated people [TS]

  who love using iPads for all their work [TS]

  for instance still almost all of them [TS]

  have a mac because there's like one or [TS]

  two or ten things that you need the mac [TS]

  to do that iOS not only can't do but [TS]

  probably won't ever do I don't see any [TS]

  any change on the horizon that's going [TS]

  to change that like so I feel like it's [TS]

  going to kind of like settle in where [TS]

  you know right now there's like a line [TS]

  going in a certain direction i think [TS]

  it's going to kind of look more like an [TS]

  asymptotic curve then like a straight [TS]

  line where it's going to flatten and [TS]

  plateau and and like there's going to be [TS]

  a certain baseline usage that people [TS]

  will just need pc-style computers and an [TS]

  oasis to do this chunk of common tasks [TS]

  because the pc / and again i use the [TS]

  word pc here I really do mean both [TS]

  windows and mac pcs and I refer to the [TS]

  pc style operating system that you know [TS]

  as opposed to like iOS and Android [TS]

  especially iOS which is really more I [TS]

  mean the way iOS works is almost way [TS]

  game console works these days like it's [TS]

  very much like console computing where [TS]

  you have like everything is very much [TS]

  locked down much more proprietary you [TS]

  have much less control as the user [TS]

  there's much less potential for like [TS]

  messing around or customization or [TS]

  hacking things or or using like little [TS]

  be no tools that can hook into the OS [TS]

  and provide cool functionality there's [TS]

  almost none of that or very little of [TS]

  that and then the pc style operate [TS]

  system allows you to basically install [TS]

  whatever you want and the programs can [TS]

  do to a large degree whatever they want [TS]

  and of course that comes with good and [TS]

  bad there's a lot of security issues [TS]

  with that however ultimately what that [TS]

  allows us for the pc to be a way way [TS]

  more customizable work environment it [TS]

  allows you to address needs that the [TS]

  platform ender never imagined and it [TS]

  allows it to basically fill in all of [TS]

  the holes so that there's all sorts of [TS]

  like you know what we call edge cases [TS]

  which is it has become a bad word for [TS]

  some reason there's all sorts of things [TS]

  that we have to do and I'm not and like [TS]

  I also want to be really clear here that [TS]

  like thinking that these edge cases only [TS]

  applied to geeks and the geeks are a [TS]

  small market both of those things are [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  geeks are freaking huge market and [TS]

  everyone needs to do these things [TS]

  sometimes [TS]

  so anyway pc-style operating systems [TS]

  fill in these gaps in it they are the [TS]

  most versatile software ecosystems that [TS]

  can ever exist like that has ever [TS]

  existed you know iOS and the lockdown [TS]

  kind of console computing model that it [TS]

  provides is very nice in a number of [TS]

  ways but one thing it really isn't as [TS]

  versatile it's capable you can do a lot [TS]

  of things but it's not versatile and and [TS]

  PCOS is fill that in [TS]

  so there are so many needs that really [TS]

  can either only be done on PCOS is or [TS]

  are just so ridiculous to do in iOS that [TS]

  you would rather eat your only really [TS]

  will ever wanted to my pc is this and [TS]

  that I don't see changing I don't see [TS]

  some kind of massive shift on the [TS]

  horizon where iOS is going to suddenly [TS]

  allow you to like hook in and provide [TS]

  your own battery widget in the status [TS]

  bar and allow apps to talk to each other [TS]

  more directly and share files more [TS]

  directly i don't see that a that would [TS]

  ruin iOS in a lot of ways so there's [TS]

  always going to be massive types of [TS]

  things that are really only possible in [TS]

  PCOS and the percentage of time that you [TS]

  need to do one of those things Mike will [TS]

  probably continue to shrink over time [TS]

  the way it has [TS]

  but I don't think those needs are going [TS]

  away so i don't foresee a future in [TS]

  which a lot of people who have ever [TS]

  needed a pc will stop needing a pc [TS]

  completely they might use it less they [TS]

  might replace it less often we see that [TS]

  now but they're still going to use them [TS]

  so for Apple to completely neglect that [TS]

  was not doing yet they're completely [TS]

  neglecting it there they're partly [TS]

  neglecting now but for Apple to [TS]

  basically slowly let that die i think is [TS]

  incredibly unwise and I think that that [TS]

  threatens their dominance in their more [TS]

  profitable markets because part of the [TS]

  reason that people love iphone so much [TS]

  is that a lot of people although but a [TS]

  lot of people who both use and buy [TS]

  iphones and also who influence other [TS]

  people to use and buy iphones lot of mac [TS]

  users so if the mac starts to whether or [TS]

  dies a lot of those people are gonna [TS]

  start looking around and consider [TS]

  different phone platforms as well [TS]

  because a lot of the advantage using an [TS]

  iphone is how to integrate well with the [TS]

  mac environment [TS]

  not all of it again this is represent [TS]

  everyone who buys an iphone obviously [TS]

  it's a much bigger market but like this [TS]

  is a non-trivial size group and it's a [TS]

  very influential group and so to [TS]

  completely throw away everything they've [TS]

  built with mac OS which is amazing to [TS]

  completely throw away all of the [TS]

  goodwill of all these millions of users [TS]

  that they've built up over decades i [TS]

  think is an incredible strategic error [TS]

  not to mention the tragedy it is for [TS]

  those of us who use pcs which is nearly [TS]

  everybody those of us who use pcs see if [TS]

  Apple leaves or effectively neglects [TS]

  this market there's nothing better left [TS]

  windows is not good we we can probably [TS]

  get x and windows but it's not good [TS]

  linux is really not made for this i mean [TS]

  you can kind of wedge it in there but it [TS]

  doesn't do a great job of being a [TS]

  desktop OS and it's yeah it serves a lot [TS]

  of many fewer needs mac OS is the cream [TS]

  of the crop and [TS]

  to meet you no one's gonna come along [TS]

  and just make another mac OS like that [TS]

  it but that takes 20 years and really [TS]

  good talent and really good direction [TS]

  and really opportunities that are [TS]

  probably not going to happen ever again [TS]

  and personal computers or at least in [TS]

  our lifetimes so Apple is some degree [TS]

  like is somebody Twitter and I'm sorry [TS]

  forget who are now somebody to said [TS]

  earlier that they almost have like a [TS]

  social responsibility to the world of [TS]

  computing to to keep making mac OS x [TS]

  disney dad's go that's going way too far [TS]

  honest is it yes you know what I bet [TS]

  steve jobs agree with that statement [TS]

  maybe I mean who knows but Steve Jobs [TS]

  loved computers and even when new stuff [TS]

  came out he loved computers and he I [TS]

  think I mean I don't know him but I [TS]

  think that's the kind of thing he would [TS]

  have agreed with his whole thing like [TS]

  the glass water and how the glass water [TS]

  and how like I really do think that he [TS]

  saw it as like his responsibility to [TS]

  bring good computer into the world and [TS]

  apple still does that with iOS certainly [TS]

  and the mac is still good for now but it [TS]

  is very very clear that the mac is not [TS]

  being given the priority and resources [TS]

  that it needs to move forward [TS]

  it's very clear that whatever its [TS]

  whatever level of resources and priority [TS]

  is getting now is enough to kind of [TS]

  steve ballmer the mac line like it'll [TS]

  keep going [TS]

  it'll be it'll make some money will be [TS]

  profitable but the ship it won't be able [TS]

  to turn because that takes more than [TS]

  what they're giving it and so if and [TS]

  when the market turns into something new [TS]

  whether that's VRA our type stuff [TS]

  whether that is something like the [TS]

  surface studio or who knows what else [TS]

  will come along the way whatever is [TS]

  going to be the next big change in [TS]

  pc-style hardware and software i can [TS]

  almost guarantee that apple will miss it [TS]

  I can almost guarantee that mac OS will [TS]

  fall behind because they are simply not [TS]

  giving it enough thought and priority to [TS]

  to make it stay on top of the game [TS]

  they're doing well now because there [TS]

  they had such a big leader windows and [TS]

  so many areas for so long but eventually [TS]

  that leads going to go away it's gonna [TS]

  take awhile [TS]

  well because Microsoft is not very good [TS]

  things but eventually something big is [TS]

  going to come to the world of pcs that [TS]

  people want that that day that it will [TS]

  shift to an apple will not be ready [TS]

  the absolutely will not be ready and [TS]

  they will totally miss it and that's [TS]

  when they will lose the mat completely [TS]

  right now it seems like they're ok with [TS]

  that outcome because of their act their [TS]

  actions whatever they say their actions [TS]

  say that they are ok with that outcome [TS]

  and I think that's huge [TS]

  that's a huge mistake respond to this [TS]

  week again by kokhon go to cocom use [TS]

  code ATP to say fifty percent on tickets [TS]

  for yosemite and Chicago kokhon is a [TS]

  technical conference for Apple [TS]

  developers and designers it's amazing [TS]

  next year on marks 20th through 23rd [TS]

  comic-con will be returning to yosemite [TS]

  national park 1st 3rd Yosemite event [TS]

  this is again held the assembly let [TS]

  national in the USSR this is again held [TS]

  at the Assembly lodge at the Falls right [TS]

  in the heart of national park it is a [TS]

  beautiful picturesque venue in fact [TS]

  there's even a guided photowalk led by [TS]

  10 photographer James dr. Davidson who [TS]

  is both an awesome photographer and a [TS]

  super nice guy and they have amazing [TS]

  speakers including action Nelson [TS]

  Hornstein Brent Simmons daniel steinberg [TS]

  David Smith Georgia dau Jamie Newberry [TS]

  Matt brands and Sebastian d with [TS]

  personally I have seen almost all of [TS]

  these people speak they are great [TS]

  they're top of their field i highly [TS]

  recommend that you go to this and you [TS]

  can also get music from james Dempsey [TS]

  the breakpoints and by our theme song [TS]

  author Jonathan song a day man I've also [TS]

  seen both of these acts and they're also [TS]

  both amazing so this is a fantastic [TS]

  event in an amazing location yosemite [TS]

  national park right it's this beautiful [TS]

  beautiful park its cave described it and [TS]

  all this is with these great speakers [TS]

  with this great event [TS]

  you got to see it go to koat.com use [TS]

  code ATP to see fifty percent tickets [TS]

  for yosemite and also they have a coke [TS]

  on chicago event happening in April 21st [TS]

  22nd that will also use that fifty [TS]

  percent with the code to be on that too [TS]

  so check it out cocom for yosemite in [TS]

  march and chicago in april use code atps [TS]

  a 50-percent to thank you [TS]

  you're much to cook on for sponsoring [TS]

  once again so I don't know what it was [TS]

  for maybe five years ago there was this [TS]

  this magazine that was called the [TS]

  magazine and that's what I pitched I [TS]

  pitched a story to the magazine about [TS]

  the importance of the manual [TS]

  transmission and much to my dismay it [TS]

  was refused because somebody else has [TS]

  already had already basically claimed a [TS]

  story on the manual transmission as it [TS]

  turns out that story was by the terrible [TS]

  human being [TS]

  damn more'n who as it turns out wrote a [TS]

  much better story than mine and I will [TS]

  forget to link in the show notes but my [TS]

  version of the story is on my old tumblr [TS]

  blog somewhere that that you can dig up [TS]

  if you're interested the manual [TS]

  transmission on a modern car means a [TS]

  tremendous amounts of me and I don't say [TS]

  that to be funny I don't say that in a [TS]

  hyperbolic way I genuinely mean that [TS]

  like I I will be devastated when there [TS]

  comes a time that the only car that that [TS]

  i can buy with a manual transmission is [TS]

  one that I don't want say for example a [TS]

  pickup truck and and i'm not saying a [TS]

  pickup is is wrong for other people but [TS]

  it's not the kind of car that I want [TS]

  it's an edge case you can just ignore it [TS]

  I know you're being snarky but you're [TS]

  not your hands right in i'm not one of [TS]

  those are popular selling vehicle in [TS]

  America [TS]

  wow I I see your point i it's actually [TS]

  connected excellent analogy because [TS]

  pickup truck to the kind of thing that [TS]

  most people never think about but [TS]

  they're actually everywhere and tons of [TS]

  people needed to do their jobs and a lot [TS]

  of people just like them [TS]

  oh yeah you're right and in in you're [TS]

  right that is pretty good analogy but it [TS]

  ruins my whole story so ignore it okay [TS]

  to fremont but at the point of driving [TS]

  at is a is that for me i want a [TS]

  four-door passenger car with three [TS]

  pedals in it that's what i want and to [TS]

  me driving a car with only two pedals [TS]

  is not enjoyable in in some ways I think [TS]

  it's a little bit unsafe and I know a [TS]

  lot of people are going to disagree with [TS]

  that with that that's fine but it I just [TS]

  don't [TS]

  that's not for me i don't care for it [TS]

  and until I cannot anymore i will always [TS]

  choose cars that have that have a [TS]

  manually-operated clutch that's what I [TS]

  want that's what I'm interested in and [TS]

  that's what i will do until I have a [TS]

  compelling reason not to [TS]

  as in my left leg is broken or or I i'm [TS]

  down a limb somewhere whatever all of [TS]

  that said I don't think there's any [TS]

  question that i am one of the few and [TS]

  that the rest of the world not only is [TS]

  moving on but has moved on [TS]

  it's a miracle that that's a bit [TS]

  overblown but i'll stick with it's a [TS]

  miracle that you can buy a 3 series BMW [TS]

  with a six-speed it's a miracle that [TS]

  Tina was able to get a six speed record [TS]

  in 2016 and it's clear that you guys [TS]

  John had to go through some hoops to get [TS]

  it's not like you pulled it off a lot [TS]

  it's not like they shipped in from [TS]

  Connecticut or New York or something [TS]

  like that it was built specifically for [TS]

  you because nobody else wanted that it's [TS]

  clear to me that driving a manual [TS]

  transmission is not long for this world [TS]

  but why i love it in so many ways I [TS]

  think it's better but the fact of the [TS]

  matter is I'm one of a very very small [TS]

  breed and in and i'm one of a group that [TS]

  is going away and ever-increasing [TS]

  numbers look at the take rate of the [TS]

  manual transmission on m3 and m4 their [TS]

  plummeting the only reason that the m5 [TS]

  the most recent m5 f10 itself time right [TS]

  the only reason the f10 m5 got that [TS]

  sounds like a pickup [TS]

  anyway uh the only reason the most [TS]

  modern five had a manual transmission it [TS]

  was because of Americans of all people [TS]

  which is really weird and and it was [TS]

  only in America if I believe that's true [TS]

  I'm i factor I think we got this North [TS]

  America right right so nobody else seems [TS]

  to want me [TS]

  transmission in to be honest on paper in [TS]

  my most metrics the transmission that [TS]

  Marcos m5 had is better it's better in [TS]

  pretty much every measurable way but [TS]

  here it is [TS]

  I'm gonna be really freaking pissed that [TS]

  whenever i buy my next car 50-50 shot i [TS]

  won't be able to get a six speed and [TS]

  when I looked for my car which [TS]

  admittedly i got used which to some [TS]

  degree makes things a lot worse but it [TS]

  took me something like six months to [TS]

  find this car because to find to find a [TS]

  335 with the m-sport package and why is [TS]

  hard way that wasn't a criteria a big [TS]

  jerk have to find a 335 to happen to be [TS]

  white [TS]

  it did is like all your other cars now [TS]

  the other ones were delivered this one [TS]

  was an accident anyway the point is to [TS]

  find one with the m-sport package that [TS]

  was really difficult but to find any 3 [TS]

  series with a six-speed get out of town [TS]

  because you're going to be waiting for [TS]

  ever [TS]

  it's impossible but here it is that's [TS]

  what i want and that's what's right for [TS]

  me [TS]

  I don't care if it's not right for you [TS]

  it's what's right for me but the fact of [TS]

  the matter is I'm a dying breed I'm one [TS]

  of few and i cannot expect BMW to [TS]

  forevermore cater to captain Casey it's [TS]

  just not going to work [TS]

  it's not profitable it's not manageable [TS]

  it's not understandable it's not [TS]

  reasonable it's not gonna work [TS]

  all that being said i love the mac hand [TS]

  on heart I cannot begin to describe how [TS]

  much i love the mac i feel so much [TS]

  faster on the mac that I do on iOS that [TS]

  doesn't mean I can't do equivalent [TS]

  things on iOS in most cases but i love [TS]

  the mac i feel hamstrung when I'm on an [TS]

  iOS device I feel crippled i feel like i [TS]

  have handcuffs on [TS]

  that's not the case for everyone clearly [TS]

  people like federico in in my curly and [TS]

  so many other people have done amazing [TS]

  things on iOS I'm not trying to say that [TS]

  iOS is right or good or great or amazing [TS]

  for me it is not the right answer and [TS]

  and I love [TS]

  of the mac i feel at home on the Mac I [TS]

  feel free on the mac and yes that sounds [TS]

  really ridiculous and lame and in kind [TS]

  of granola but I know it doesn't free on [TS]

  the Mac I really do feel free on the mac [TS]

  i agree with you Marco that I will be [TS]

  devastated if the mac goes away but the [TS]

  more I look around and the more I i see [TS]

  the people around me the more clear it [TS]

  is that I am NOT one of the many i'm one [TS]

  of the few and at some point at some [TS]

  point I'm the this group that loves the [TS]

  manual transmission this group that [TS]

  loves mac OS isn't going to be big [TS]

  enough to really freaking matter anymore [TS]

  and I I will be devastated i mean that [TS]

  word I use that were deliberately i will [TS]

  be friggin devastated when that time [TS]

  comes [TS]

  maybe not as much as is you too but if [TS]

  not really damn close because as much as [TS]

  I beat the to you up about you know [TS]

  really convention about the mac and the [TS]

  state of the mac and this is that i [TS]

  agree with you i want the back to live [TS]

  for ever but to me it's becoming more [TS]

  and more clear that I'm not going to [TS]

  have a manual transmission much longer [TS]

  and i'm not convinced but i'm not [TS]

  terribly sure that I'm gonna have a mac [TS]

  much longer and i think the reality of [TS]

  the situation is all three of us are [TS]

  just gonna have to come to grips with [TS]

  that and it doesn't make me happy it [TS]

  doesn't make me smile it makes me really [TS]

  damn sad not to the point that i'm [TS]

  losing sleep over John but it makes me [TS]

  really damn sad and and I hope that I'm [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  god I hope I'm wrong but at some point [TS]

  all three of us need to look around and [TS]

  say you know what we aren't the ones [TS]

  that matter anymore and i look at I look [TS]

  at aaron who is by every measure a far [TS]

  more human more normal human than I am [TS]

  it every measure pull away and I look at [TS]

  her and I think to myself she has this [TS]

  macbook air and yes it went under water [TS]

  twice but nevertheless it's working [TS]

  today with anything to clarify for any [TS]

  listeners who forgot it was Casey's [TS]

  fault underwater not absolutely [TS]

  absolutely my fault but she is she very [TS]

  rarely uses her back care why because [TS]

  her iphone works for her [TS]

  I gave her that i gave her by old [TS]

  ipad with the the first retina iPad was [TS]

  that the third-generation ipad doesn't [TS]

  get that I gave her my old iPad she [TS]

  never touched because her phone was [TS]

  enough for her and I think that for most [TS]

  people that's pretty much the truth [TS]

  maybe not at work but in Aaron's case [TS]

  she's a stay-at-home mom so that is her [TS]

  work actually come to think of it for a [TS]

  lot of people they don't need max now [TS]

  take tip for example tiff is also a [TS]

  stay-at-home mom but she has other [TS]

  things that she does and she absolutely [TS]

  without a shadow of a doubt mesa max I'm [TS]

  not trying to say this is universal [TS]

  but I take Aaron as an exemplar of [TS]

  somebody who is normal or a lot more [TS]

  normal than i am and she she does have a [TS]

  mac and she does use her mac but if I [TS]

  told her that her Mac was gone forever [TS]

  say for example if I dumped a bunch of [TS]

  water on it I think she'd be okay and [TS]

  none of this makes me happy I'm not [TS]

  pleased to say these things but in [TS]

  summary i think all three of us need to [TS]

  realize that were part of a four part of [TS]

  a group that's getting ever smaller and [TS]

  that's ever less profitable and that [TS]

  probably doesn't matter that much to [TS]

  apple and that sucks [TS]

  it totally sucks but it's reality you [TS]

  know before I don't know if we want to [TS]

  refute all the things you say because I [TS]

  think Marco and I could vary but maybe I [TS]

  want to have a but but but i want to [TS]

  point out that both of you seem to be [TS]

  uninterested in my thought experiments [TS]

  i'm assigning with you as a homework [TS]

  assignment because right now we're still [TS]

  talking about like whether or not what [TS]

  we think might happen is happening and [TS]

  i'm still more interested at this point [TS]

  in how you would tell the difference [TS]

  between the two scenarios between the [TS]

  case scenario where were restrictions [TS]

  drivers for Apple to users and it's just [TS]

  happening to us and the scenario the [TS]

  more Marco scenario where Apple's doing [TS]

  something dumb and really they should be [TS]

  supporting the mac because if they don't [TS]

  those needs aren't going away and again [TS]

  not not the specific arguments either [TS]

  side of it but how if you are in the [TS]

  middle of it as a Mac user as an apple [TS]

  to user as a stick shift driver [TS]

  what should you look for to distinguish [TS]

  those two situations right and i'm not [TS]

  sure i'm great answers either but i [TS]

  think it's something more thing about so [TS]

  we can table that is [TS]

  as a homework assignment i suppose and [TS]

  on the specific stick shift things and [TS]

  on the Mac I mean like a lobster out of [TS]

  here like so the idea that we're [TS]

  shrinking like percentage-wise Mac [TS]

  market share the line for mac market [TS]

  share in in the you know just in any any [TS]

  kind of line you want to put overall pc [TS]

  market share mac sales years reviews it [TS]

  looks way better than the stick shift [TS]

  mine like way better this fictional i [TS]

  fell off a cliff years ago mr. basement [TS]

  and the mac line if you look at all the [TS]

  graphs it's boring but it's pretty [TS]

  steady so regardless of you know it just [TS]

  just in terms of degree you can still [TS]

  totally right about it but in terms of [TS]

  degree i'm gonna say that the mac is not [TS]

  a stick shift situation I mean we would [TS]

  know it doesn't stay with it was a [TS]

  six-inch situation I would have to go to [TS]

  seven different stores and and beg [TS]

  people to sell have money i want to give [TS]

  you will you give me that I swear I [TS]

  talked to so many dealers they want [TS]

  everybody want to sell my cbt accord [TS]

  nobody wanted my money like waving [TS]

  dollar bills in their face i have money [TS]

  you know I'll do your finance thing [TS]

  whatever incentives you have all do them [TS]

  like now now we don't have any of those [TS]

  maybe try back later maybe less [TS]

  anyway so we're not the situation yet [TS]

  and the other thing on the market was [TS]

  talking about 11 aspect that would would [TS]

  show that Apple is screwing this up is [TS]

  that and this has happened in the past [TS]

  to apple specifically that of apple [TS]

  doesn't fulfill the needs of some market [TS]

  and then market is heavily invested in [TS]

  the mac i mean that can back and read [TS]

  companies that can really disrupt the [TS]

  industry but more than any other type of [TS]

  business people that need computers [TS]

  pc-style computers for professional [TS]

  needs are the most willing and able like [TS]

  as an industry not as an individual [TS]

  company perhaps but the most willing and [TS]

  able to bail and go to something else if [TS]

  they're using Mac's for video editing [TS]

  and apples not interested in video [TS]

  editing the whole industry will shift to [TS]

  a different product on a different [TS]

  platform likes will stop final cutting [TS]

  go to have it or you know same thing [TS]

  with like audio editing applications or [TS]

  3d 3d for [TS]

  a little while looks like the mac might [TS]

  be a factor but it's like nope windows [TS]

  NT or at you just as sgr is people [TS]

  switch from sti's to Windows NT which [TS]

  seemed heard of like they'll switch the [TS]

  if you don't fill their needs and they [TS]

  still need to do this thing and it seems [TS]

  like you're not supporting them anymore [TS]

  they will ditch you and retrain [TS]

  everybody and buy all new hardware and [TS]

  whole bunch of companies will go out of [TS]

  business because they won't make that [TS]

  transition and they'll hate you forever [TS]

  and they will change and one good way to [TS]

  tell if Apple is you know being smarter [TS]

  than us like if they have been in these [TS]

  industries and people still need to [TS]

  professionally edited video on a pc [TS]

  style workstation and Apple isn't [TS]

  interested in selling the hardware that [TS]

  works their needs they will switch to [TS]

  windows they absolutely will they will [TS]

  hate it they may be sad [TS]

  the people who are dyed-in-the-wool [TS]

  Apple users we said some kind of [TS]

  companies might go out of business [TS]

  because they can't absorb the cost to [TS]

  turn over all the hardware retrain [TS]

  everybody but the absolutely will switch [TS]

  and that you know that's a bad sign for [TS]

  Apple and my final point no need to get [TS]

  to the Q&A part and we will my my final [TS]

  point is it if there are any Apple [TS]

  people listening I Craig to this spot [TS]

  and if you're saying is like an [TS]

  important important person inside apple [TS]

  and you're hearing all this morning [TS]

  about you know these three diehard mac [TS]

  users who are talking as if the mac is [TS]

  already dead or talking about that [TS]

  possibility and you're like you're like [TS]

  how is this happening [TS]

  like maybe they disagree with what we're [TS]

  doing with the mac but but like we must [TS]

  be you know if you have to steal it like [TS]

  we what are we doing to make these [TS]

  customers are most loyal customers our [TS]

  customers that are love to give us money [TS]

  in 10 x max and they think the platform [TS]

  is dead [TS]

  like if you have that feeling like [TS]

  there's something has gone terribly [TS]

  wrong it could be one two things one [TS]

  that you're one of those people inside [TS]

  Apple that I was just talking about who [TS]

  feel the same way about the mac as we do [TS]

  and it's totally honest and every time [TS]

  they get up on stage and say we care [TS]

  about the max really important blah blah [TS]

  but maybe the rest of the company [TS]

  doesn't agree with you or to the whole [TS]

  company's on the same page of the mac is [TS]

  really important and you're doing the [TS]

  world worse job of convincing [TS]

  you're most welcome Sandra this fact [TS]

  like but you know but pretend it's the [TS]

  truth if it is the truth you're doing a [TS]

  bad job of convincing mac users of that [TS]

  fact so no matter how you slice this [TS]

  something Apple is doing is wrong [TS]

  strategically PR y los espiritu's iming [TS]

  yet the hidden well that's true that's [TS]

  what specifically specifically on the [TS]

  issue of how Apple's handling the mac [TS]

  there is no way around the fact [TS]

  something Apple is doing is wrong it's [TS]

  just a question of whether the wrong by [TS]

  not being honest with us the wrong by [TS]

  not being able to convince the thing [TS]

  that really is true or they're wrong [TS]

  they shouldn't they already emphasizing [TS]

  the mac and they shouldn't be and always [TS]

  possible as a kind of up in the air i [TS]

  think we've talked about a lot of them [TS]

  but like something is going wrong here [TS]

  at that [TS]

  at that [TS]

  as as is true with so many things 2016 [TS]

  something has gone wrong respond to this [TS]

  week by audible with an unmatched [TS]

  selection of audiobooks original audio [TS]

  shows news comedy and more get a free [TS]

  30-day trial at audible.com / ATP if you [TS]

  wanna listen to it audible has it you [TS]

  can listen to audiobooks from virtually [TS]

  every genre anytime anywhere you can [TS]

  play audible audiobooks on phones [TS]

  tablets computers even if you still have [TS]

  a kindle and ipod in a drawer somewhere [TS]

  you can play them on those two audio [TS]

  books are great for flights long road [TS]

  trips or even your daily commute that [TS]

  you may think you don't have time to [TS]

  read books but i often think that but [TS]

  you'd be surprised how many audio books [TS]

  you can hear each year even listen on [TS]

  your commute to work every day because [TS]

  all the time really adds up [TS]

  audiobooks are so cool they bring books [TS]

  to life many of them are read by the [TS]

  author's themselves adding extra [TS]

  dimension to the text and with audible [TS]

  you can take risks and try new authors [TS]

  and genres because they offer a great [TS]

  listen guarantee so if you start on [TS]

  audiobook and ends up it's not for you [TS]

  you can exchange it for another one for [TS]

  free so check it out yourself you can [TS]

  see and listen for yourself [TS]

  begin your free 30-day trial you'll get [TS]

  your first audio book for free and [TS]

  there's no stress replication you can [TS]

  cancel your membership at anytime [TS]

  so with audiobooks and spoken word audio [TS]

  products you will find what you're [TS]

  looking for get a free 30-day trial [TS]

  today by signing up with audible at [TS]

  audible.com / ATP that's audible.com / [TS]

  ATP thank you very much to audible for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  alright John see you've come up with [TS]

  some ground rules about the Q&A section [TS]

  which I actually think we're quite [TS]

  clever so would you like a love those i [TS]

  love that you had to have rules are [TS]

  going to Q&A but there's gonna be rules [TS]

  and those rules are mostly for you too [TS]

  but for listening only to tell for us to [TS]

  I said okay what you don't mean for us [TS]

  not for the audience for this far as [TS]

  you're concerned here and here's the [TS]

  deal with I we ask questions just today [TS]

  so you have one date descending [TS]

  questions were supposed to send it [TS]

  through the email form if you send it [TS]

  through Twitter you didn't follow [TS]

  directions [TS]

  I I maybe I didn't specifically say [TS]

  don't send the river by totally said [TS]

  send it here [TS]

  that's what the colon means it means [TS]

  that in this anyway we got tons of [TS]

  questions [TS]

  that's great a lot of people as repeat [TS]

  questions we type in X and Casey picked [TS]

  on market any a subset of these [TS]

  questions so if you send in your [TS]

  question it's probably not going to get [TS]

  answered because we had tons of [TS]

  questions i just picked them out [TS]

  sometimes I US 17 questions i just took [TS]

  to sometimes i rephrase your question [TS]

  sometimes 17 people ask the same [TS]

  question and the port the person that I [TS]

  pick whose name is attached to it is [TS]

  basically random so this is the system [TS]

  it's not here it says number the system [TS]

  we have this is not in a rush in today [TS]

  what we're going to try to do with the [TS]

  questions because if we didn't do this [TS]

  we would answer two questions total is [TS]

  to do them quickly so rather than answer [TS]

  answer your question thoroughly because [TS]

  a lot of these questions like you know [TS]

  what's the best thing the Apple did last [TS]

  year that's a whole show like that's not [TS]

  a crime you know [TS]

  so with those questions are still in [TS]

  there and our challenge as the people [TS]

  who are speaking on this podcast our [TS]

  challenge is to go against everything is [TS]

  in our instincts and to try to answer [TS]

  these questions with one or two [TS]

  sentences and then move on which means [TS]

  we're not going to be able to have a big [TS]

  discussion about them but hopefully [TS]

  we'll get to more of your questions so [TS]

  that's the strategy [TS]

  alright so I i guess i will start the MC [TS]

  process and then if somebody else takes [TS]

  over that's fine we begin with brian [TS]

  hamilton who asks how long does it take [TS]

  for Marco to edit an episode I'm going [TS]

  to put that aside for just a split [TS]

  second just Casey still do is listen [TS]

  through with the turnaround for episode [TS]

  has been much faster lately so quick [TS]

  recap it used to be that I would listen [TS]

  through each episode in I would mark [TS]

  when somebody cough Tory crosstalk to [TS]

  whatever then i would send that list of [TS]

  timestamps to Marco and he would do the [TS]

  actual edit i would say between six [TS]

  months in a year ago that it became [TS]

  obvious to both market when I that my [TS]

  listen to it was getting kind of [TS]

  redundant and so I stopped doing that I [TS]

  don't know Marco do you remember when I [TS]

  don't know maybe halfway through the [TS]

  show okay so with that said how long [TS]

  does it take you to edit an episode of [TS]

  total you know with all the work [TS]

  involved in posting and everything it [TS]

  helps a lot that you do the show notes [TS]

  now which I used to do the show notes [TS]

  and that it kind of put too much time on [TS]

  me so like I was having spent longer and [TS]

  and we're doing back and forth so that [TS]

  it took way too i have to do my part and [TS]

  you do your part took forever now total [TS]

  editing time is probably about three to [TS]

  four hours for a two-hour show which is [TS]

  a lot of time but doesn't seem terrible [TS]

  to me [TS]

  yeah and a lot of a lot of that is also [TS]

  because i'm using logic and logic is not [TS]

  made for this and this is one of the [TS]

  reasons i want to make my own editor [TS]

  because i think if i made my own editor [TS]

  that was custom optimized for editing [TS]

  podcasts I think that three or four [TS]

  hours could be one to two hours and with [TS]

  a lot less mousing and typing all right [TS]

  i want to elaborate but I'm gonna move [TS]

  on Stephen ham asks have you read the [TS]

  sweet home guide to toaster ovens I [TS]

  think this is mostly meant for John have [TS]

  you tried their pick [TS]

  do you agree with their methodology is a [TS]

  super common question I get it on [TS]

  Twitter all the time I don't always [TS]

  respond to it because it's just so [TS]

  common at this point yes I have read [TS]

  this we don't got to toaster ovens [TS]

  yes i have tried their pic Casey has a [TS]

  nice blog post that lists all my toaster [TS]

  reviews and if you go to that page which [TS]

  is that many people their pictures on it [TS]

  so you can hear what I have to say about [TS]

  it [TS]

  do you agree with their methodology i [TS]

  have different priorities for example [TS]

  their top pick [TS]

  the reason i dinged it was it was [TS]

  smaller than I would like [TS]

  like its it doesn't fit as much stuff in [TS]

  it and so that kind of disqualified it [TS]

  for like you know being able to put you [TS]

  know for big slices of bread or whatever [TS]

  in there and the UI was really weird so [TS]

  they are they prioritize the UI less [TS]

  than i do and the size is not i mean how [TS]

  could they make sighs the fact that they [TS]

  don't know what size toast uni they're [TS]

  trying to say this thing toast really [TS]

  quickly which I said in my review [TS]

  and really evenly so so yeah that's the [TS]

  thing with any reviews including the [TS]

  sweet home's you read them to find out [TS]

  information but you also are trying to [TS]

  find out what they prioritize and you [TS]

  have to compare that to how you [TS]

  prioritize so it's not as if I disagree [TS]

  with anything they did it's just that we [TS]

  have different priorities and you can [TS]

  hear that in the reviews all right Mike [TS]

  Reinhart asks Marco what apps on your [TS]

  phone do you have red badges in the [TS]

  2000s let's give a little context here [TS]

  Marco has made it very clear over the [TS]

  years and I think you're right that [TS]

  having these red badges with counts and [TS]

  whatnot is kind of ridiculous and stress [TS]

  inducing so Marco what apps have red [TS]

  badges [TS]

  it's actually a pretty short list the [TS]

  two that always have a red badge our [TS]

  phone and mail and the reason for that [TS]

  are basically i suck at responding to [TS]

  email i use markers on red as an [TS]

  organizational tool which i know is [TS]

  wrong and with phone I never listen to [TS]

  my voicemail so I have voice mails here [TS]

  let me see my earliest unplayed [TS]

  voicemail is from october third that [TS]

  currently have 10 of them so that's why [TS]

  you you leave the badge on that even [TS]

  though you like that would seem like the [TS]

  reason you turned off because it's [TS]

  meaningless because it's always gonna be [TS]

  read right you have never even consider [TS]

  the possibility I could turn it off I [TS]

  guess I'll look into that i also have [TS]

  one photos right now just because [TS]

  there's like some shared album probably [TS]

  from kc that it has something red i have [TS]

  one on the Apple pod and sunglasses [TS]

  spoiler alert [TS]

  cool hey I wanted on the Apple podcast [TS]

  after i have a folder of a handful of [TS]

  other podcast apps basically as i'm [TS]

  designing overcast I try to make sure [TS]

  that I don't rip off other apps too [TS]

  closely so like as i'm adding if i'm [TS]

  adding a new feature for instance we [TS]

  have to design the UI basically go and [TS]

  check like am I ripping off a competitor [TS]

  you know really clearly here or am i [TS]

  doing my own thing I want to do my own [TS]

  thing whenever I can [TS]

  so I always have podcast apps are [TS]

  showing their own red badges that didn't [TS]

  ask for and then finally I have a folder [TS]

  that shows an unread badge of 1500 [TS]

  because it is actually underscore David [TS]

  Smith pedometer + + app that is showing [TS]

  that as my step count for the day which [TS]

  is actually horrible and I just open up [TS]

  the app it's actually 5800 so i'll just [TS]

  add a date but anyway that's it [TS]

  everything I everyone i have my phone is [TS]

  either some app that I turned it off for [TS]

  or a game that doesn't look so that's it [TS]

  Brian move [TS]

  asks how did all of you meet initially [TS]

  online through mac / software channels [TS]

  or perhaps at a car dealership so I've [TS]

  told this story in bits and pieces but I [TS]

  don't know that I've ever told the [TS]

  complete version of the story and part [TS]

  of that is because I thought it was kind [TS]

  of fun to have a little bit of ambiguity [TS]

  about how the three of us met but 201 [TS]

  episodes and perhaps it's time to to [TS]

  remove all doubt [TS]

  so mark when I met when we were 10 is [TS]

  that sound reasonable something like [TS]

  that something like that [TS]

  my recollection and i'll give you a [TS]

  chance to interrupt in the second year [TS]

  Marco I'm my recollection is that that [TS]

  your your mom was a schoolteacher and [TS]

  for the summers you would go to a lake [TS]

  in upstate New York and my grandparents [TS]

  my dad's parents had a house on the same [TS]

  Lake and it was one of those situations [TS]

  where we like the only kids that were [TS]

  anywhere nearby it came to light to our [TS]

  mutual caregivers that o we have no boy [TS]

  children around the same age they should [TS]

  hangout and so we would hang out and [TS]

  basically right either choose your own [TS]

  adventure games in vb one or play too [TS]

  much transport tycoon just generally be [TS]

  nerds and get yelled at to go outside [TS]

  and then we kind of lost touch for a [TS]

  long time and around the time that [TS]

  tumblr started or right around the time [TS]

  that we graduated college at least [TS]

  that's my recollection we got back in [TS]

  touch and then I visited or well Aaron [TS]

  and I at this point actually visited you [TS]

  at tumblr and then ended up meeting up [TS]

  with TIFF and I think this is it was 09 [TS]

  yeah and so we got back in touch after [TS]

  that and we and we got close again you [TS]

  know there was never like a screw you [TS]

  man i hate you it was just we fell out [TS]

  of touch and so we got close again and [TS]

  then of course because of that I started [TS]

  listening build analyzed hypocritical [TS]

  and then when we when i started going to [TS]

  WTC in 2011 i ended up meeting John [TS]

  through Marco and then John and I kind [TS]

  of got to be friendly and then [TS]

  eventually got to be relatively close [TS]

  and then you know the whole story of [TS]

  mean needling mark kohaykewych to a car [TS]

  show we should do a car show Marco said [TS]

  hey you know we should we get John [TS]

  involved because you know John also just [TS]

  stopped a podcast would probably like to [TS]

  talk cars and so we sweet we did neutral [TS]

  and then then here we are in on ATP 201 [TS]

  episodes later [TS]

  as brief as I think I can reasonably [TS]

  make it pretty good [TS]

  any thoughts from either of you there's [TS]

  no thoughts no time for thoughts haha [TS]

  Cody mins asks questions mostly from [TS]

  Marco why do you give stitcher / google [TS]

  play music flak for being a podcast [TS]

  walled garden but not itunes not saying [TS]

  that not bad for other reasons but [TS]

  itunes isn't exactly the Wild West [TS]

  this is a pretty easy one it's a [TS]

  question of degree itunes is a directory [TS]

  of public RSS feeds [TS]

  once you subscribe to a podcast in [TS]

  itunes the software then goes directly [TS]

  to the RSS feed every single time [TS]

  download the episodes directly from your [TS]

  server where you specify the feed 2.2 [TS]

  and itunes is basically out of the loop [TS]

  after that very first you know browse [TS]

  and subscribe action that's it [TS]

  so we're a stitcher and google play [TS]

  music are their own entirely proprietary [TS]

  crawling playback stats downloading [TS]

  platforms and they have you have to like [TS]

  you know do all sorts of like you know [TS]

  giving up data to them and and agree to [TS]

  the terms and everything we're itunes as [TS]

  writers really like you know about as [TS]

  much of a directory as yahoo was for the [TS]

  web back in the day like like itunes is [TS]

  happy to have you go there find what you [TS]

  want and then itunes is removed from the [TS]

  loop [TS]

  they're cut out of the loop and then [TS]

  you're just dealing with the feet so [TS]

  basically the way Apple those things [TS]

  with podcast is in support of an open [TS]

  ecosystem whereas the way stitcher and [TS]

  whooping music are doing podcasts it is [TS]

  a completely closed ecosystem that [TS]

  simply use your RSS feed as input but [TS]

  then copies over your audio rehost sit [TS]

  has everybody just participate within [TS]

  that system and its it's more likely [TS]

  cheating off of the open world rather [TS]

  than what Apple does which is really [TS]

  participating in it and then kind of [TS]

  handing you off to it the other minor [TS]

  difference that i would add is that it's [TS]

  too late for itunes itunes it is a [TS]

  problem that everything is so [TS]

  centralized in itunes [TS]

  I mean it's a benefit obviously that's a [TS]

  place where you go to find your podcast [TS]

  but it's also problem but it's way too [TS]

  late [TS]

  like that time we got into it I hydrants [TS]

  was already there so it is more useful [TS]

  in general to complain about the [TS]

  up-and-comers to say you knew thing that [TS]

  is coming that seems to be worse and all [TS]

  the way the market is described stop [TS]

  doing that [TS]

  go away whereas by the time we can [TS]

  the scenes itunes was already the winner [TS]

  of where you find podcast if you are a [TS]

  Mac user also like the the itunes as a [TS]

  directory is that it's actually really [TS]

  nice to have a human monitor directory [TS]

  in podcasting yeah I said it's a benefit [TS]

  but it's also you know not not great [TS]

  that one company controls that because [TS]

  again available decide they don't care [TS]

  then then we are left to the Wolves the [TS]

  mystery google play and stir well [TS]

  unfortunately i felt a little thing on [TS]

  the side that has its own directory that [TS]

  you know kinda it as an insurance policy [TS]

  against that friend of the show Ryan [TS]

  Jones who you heard us talking about [TS]

  earlier today author of whether line [TS]

  great weather at my favorite weather at [TS]

  it's been five years since Steve Jobs [TS]

  died hows Apple doing relative to your [TS]

  expectations shortly after his death [TS]

  get out you guys this is the big [TS]

  challenge I ready right relatives so we [TS]

  despite the fact that we've been [TS]

  complaining earlier this episode i think [TS]

  that all things being equal this is at [TS]

  least meeting my expectations if not [TS]

  exceeding I think Apple has its problems [TS]

  but it's doing well and I'm okay with [TS]

  this [TS]

  good job crazy here at Fargo alright i [TS]

  think somewhere between healthy and [TS]

  steve ballmer haha that's a big range [TS]

  anywhere between maybe like like a third [TS]

  of the way away from steve ballmer so I [TS]

  closer to that than healthy but not like [TS]

  right on top of that and what I mean by [TS]

  that you know Steve Ballmer is able to [TS]

  continue microsoft into very profitable [TS]

  times he's a very good businessman to [TS]

  keep things going but he was clearly not [TS]

  able to identify future product [TS]

  direction that needed to happen and turn [TS]

  the company into that I think Tim Cook [TS]

  has much of the same issue not as badly [TS]

  i think is a much better leader than [TS]

  Steve Ballmer especially you know in [TS]

  lots of ways but especially in product [TS]

  in product direction but i still think [TS]

  he has that problem and i still think [TS]

  that when the next big things come apple [TS]

  will miss them and it's just a matter of [TS]

  time before that's a big problem for [TS]

  them John [TS]

  so I think there i'm going to say they [TS]

  are falling slightly short of [TS]

  masturbation [TS]

  mostly meeting them like if you said [TS]

  what do you think I'm gonna be like I [TS]

  would describe the scenario very similar [TS]

  to where we are now with the exception [TS]

  that i would I i would have said that at [TS]

  least one of the few things that apple [TS]

  would try would hit stronger than it has [TS]

  whether it's the watch your car or [TS]

  whatever so I think they're slightly [TS]

  under but not by much I in other words [TS]

  i'm not shocked about where their i [TS]

  think that's it that's a good way of [TS]

  looking at it [TS]

  Ryan continues of the necessary apps [TS]

  podcast player notes Twitter photos mail [TS]

  centre which you leave satisfied with in [TS]

  other words what app that you use [TS]

  everyday because it's the best available [TS]

  to you still not love all start in and I [TS]

  don't know if he intended to limit this [TS]

  to iOS or not i will give to answer is [TS]

  very quickly number one [TS]

  overcast for the mac number two [TS]

  slack slack is a dumpster fire on the [TS]

  mac and i hate it but it's the best [TS]

  option available [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna go photos photos is an [TS]

  app that like I use it constantly [TS]

  it is a big part of my life both on iOS [TS]

  and the mac the the iOS is mostly [TS]

  capture the mac is mostly you know [TS]

  curation of the collection editing [TS]

  importing from cameras and then you know [TS]

  picking through and doing minor edits if [TS]

  the the iCloud photo library sync system [TS]

  is great i I've never had problems with [TS]

  it is wonderfully convenient it works [TS]

  quickly and reliably the vast majority [TS]

  of the time for me so the system is [TS]

  great however the Photos app especially [TS]

  on the mac is very frustrating for me to [TS]

  use to do anything beyond getting the [TS]

  photo like it's nice that thinks that's [TS]

  what that's wonderful but then once I [TS]

  want to do anything with the pictures [TS]

  but whether it's as simple as like you [TS]

  know when I have the UH I took 50 photos [TS]

  during this event and i want to narrow [TS]

  down to 10 like photos on the mac is [TS]

  just the worst in the world for that [TS]

  like it is so clunky is it is so like [TS]

  unnecessarily clunky it even doing basic [TS]

  editing operations have to wait and sit [TS]

  through those animations and mode [TS]

  switches and everything it's every it [TS]

  basically seems like it's fighting me [TS]

  doing anything even the most basic [TS]

  operations that everybody would want to [TS]

  do with the photo app but i do love the [TS]

  sinking so much that tolerate that but I [TS]

  do wish the Apple was better official [TS]

  mac John the last question was the [TS]

  challenge to try to try to simply say [TS]

  how you think apples doing five years [TS]

  after steve jobs gone [TS]

  but instead marcos for 10 minutes on the [TS]

  photos up about 10 minutes like to yeah [TS]

  so I'll i would basically agree with him [TS]

  is I mean I don't love photos i love [TS]

  some parts but everything I agree with [TS]

  everything Marco said about dealing with [TS]

  the app it could be better but the the [TS]

  other contender that I mean I also kind [TS]

  of agree with casey us like but I kind [TS]

  of do love slack you despite all its [TS]

  gross pneus like eating a white castle [TS]

  yeah the other contender though is a [TS]

  another situation where I'm being left [TS]

  behind for explicable reasons this this [TS]

  time you know i know i am is my favorite [TS]

  twitter client on the mac hasn't been [TS]

  updated in forever because it's not [TS]

  worthwhile for the developer to update [TS]

  this but it is the only mac twitter app [TS]

  that I like and it's frustrating to me [TS]

  that it doesn't have so many features [TS]

  and it's such a big mess because it just [TS]

  hasn't been updated and I know why and I [TS]

  just sit here clinging to it and using [TS]

  it until it doesn't launch anymore and [TS]

  then i'll be set and which happens that [TS]

  because somebody will has twitterrific [TS]

  for the mac which I still I still really [TS]

  do like but it is so far behind the [TS]

  state of the twitter at this point that [TS]

  i can't recommend other people use it [TS]

  anonymous asks apples priorities are [TS]

  clearly iphone then watch then Mac an [TS]

  ipad if you were Tim how are you how [TS]

  would you rank them if i were to him i [TS]

  would put mac for Hurst and that's that [TS]

  the way this works i think the most [TS]

  reasonable approach is iphone then ipad [TS]

  then watch then Mac and that doesn't [TS]

  please me to say that I don't want it to [TS]

  be that way but I think that's the way [TS]

  that makes the most sense [TS]

  Marco I would probably try to [TS]

  restructure the company and the [TS]

  management incentives such that it was [TS]

  not necessary to rank them like this [TS]

  that's such a non-answer think that's [TS]

  really possible as you break it off into [TS]

  subsidiary is that are the i don't know [TS]

  i think that's dodging ignition still [TS]

  okay if I have to rank them it is it [TS]

  I hate anyway if I had to rank them [TS]

  iphone would still be first i would put [TS]

  max second a ipad 3rd and watch forth [TS]

  because that's basically the order in [TS]

  which i think i think the order of their [TS]

  importance along with the order in which [TS]

  then the amount of attention they need [TS]

  basically like the [TS]

  watch is brand new and fairly young but [TS]

  it doesn't actually do that much it's a [TS]

  fairly simple product it's not that I [TS]

  don't think it needs a ton of updating [TS]

  you know especially like the three-point [TS]

  was pretty good like they've gotten too [TS]

  good a good spot now it's not really [TS]

  dying for tons of updates the ipad is [TS]

  you know it [TS]

  the ipad is a lot of stuff for free [TS]

  which advances in the iphone so it [TS]

  doesn't need a lot of its own attention [TS]

  it doesn't also justify love to [TS]

  attention because of sales aren't that [TS]

  good [TS]

  whereas the Mac I the reason I put [TS]

  second it to the iphone is that is not [TS]

  only obviously do i love it but also i [TS]

  think the mac needs more attention and [TS]

  has more influence and hat and you know [TS]

  just the it's it's more of a [TS]

  foundational important part of the whole [TS]

  market John alright i would go iphone [TS]

  ipad Mac watch although i think this [TS]

  list is not complete and i'm not [TS]

  entirely sure that the order given is so [TS]

  clearly apples priorities and the reason [TS]

  i was obviously we all read an iphone [TS]

  for us because I think that's to give me [TS]

  the reason I'm putting ipad second is [TS]

  because i think it has the potential is [TS]

  the only thing in a plan that has the [TS]

  potential to eventually someday do all [TS]

  things that does and the watch is so [TS]

  young and so new it should not have [TS]

  priority over the ipad or the mac or the [TS]

  iphone alright yeah also like you know [TS]

  like the apple TV is missing from this [TS]

  list like they're there are some things [TS]

  apple does that aren't here but is not [TS]

  complete [TS]

  yeah but I would also say like the apple [TS]

  TV is similar to the watch in that i'm [TS]

  not sure it justifies a lot of [TS]

  continuous investment because the reason [TS]

  why the apple TV and the watch and the [TS]

  ipad actually the what holds these [TS]

  things back is not just like software [TS]

  features or hardware updates it's like [TS]

  ecosystem limitations around them that [TS]

  just make it very difficult for them to [TS]

  to meaningfully progress [TS]

  dan Casspi asks do all of your wives [TS]

  listen to the episodes do they find them [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  Aaron does not she does listen analog [TS]

  she does not listen ATP Marco yeah tiff [TS]

  listens to ATP she does not listen to [TS]

  under the radar and she's in top for a [TS]

  job [TS]

  yes my life lessons to ATP I don't think [TS]

  she finds an interesting in terms of the [TS]

  subject matter what reason the only [TS]

  reason you find interesting is because [TS]

  her husband is on the show and and she [TS]

  must be here if we say anything about [TS]

  her thanks [TS]

  hi Tina have you ever rejected an ad [TS]

  this is still from dan cassie is we have [TS]

  I can't think of any examples and it's [TS]

  probably not mature of us to cite them [TS]

  anyway but yes we have absolutely i can [TS]

  get tons i mean that's like we reject [TS]

  ads frequently and not like everyday but [TS]

  like maybe every month or two we will [TS]

  turn down a sponsor or we will even [TS]

  decided to stop working with one that we [TS]

  have worked with before there are lots [TS]

  of reasons for this obviously there's a [TS]

  lot of stuff that just we don't think [TS]

  would be nice to advertise here or would [TS]

  not fit the show well sometimes we will [TS]

  we will drop a sponsor that we've had [TS]

  if we get reports from from people that [TS]

  their product isn't as good as we [TS]

  thought it was [TS]

  we also extrait ichika Lee we like we've [TS]

  tried to reduce the amount of like [TS]

  clothing companies and stuff like that [TS]

  advertise with us and and increase more [TS]

  like the tech relevant stuff there's [TS]

  tons of sponsors out there that want to [TS]

  sell you like a short description and [TS]

  that's fine [TS]

  I mean look last episode we have soccer [TS]

  it was pretty fun experience the great [TS]

  great spot but I don't want the [TS]

  advertisers to all be that kind of stuff [TS]

  because we're still a text shows i want [TS]

  to have some kind of focus to make most [TS]

  of the ads tech-related alright let's [TS]

  take a break and speaking of sponsors [TS]

  let's talk about one of the ones that is [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  it's a shirt subscription haha it's a [TS]

  magical gris-gris be so great tho [TS]

  mattress is a totally dig related [TS]

  everybody sleeps but sometimes it gets [TS]

  closer to that maybe that's why would [TS]

  make it makes it harder system is like [TS]

  these are like a lot of these are great [TS]

  products like you know we usually won't [TS]

  drop them just for that but like like [TS]

  one thing that bugs me I just very [TS]

  quickly one thing that really bugs me is [TS]

  like things that are subscriptions that [TS]

  really don't need to be that you're [TS]

  probably not going to benefit from them [TS]

  being subscriptions so like I don't mind [TS]

  like a sock a one pair of socks a month [TS]

  kind of thing because like you know [TS]

  you're going to use socks that's cool [TS]

  but I don't like are things that are [TS]

  like bags of snacks for you know you [TS]

  paid forty bucks a month and get some [TS]

  bag of snacks delivered it's like that [TS]

  how it just feels like it shouldn't be a [TS]

  subscription you know right there's [TS]

  there's one that like you know you can [TS]

  like get [TS]

  dog toys delivered for thirty bucks a [TS]

  month like I had toys my dog every time [TS]

  with the dog store i would never reach [TS]

  30 bucks a month worth of total in [TS]

  investment in there like it's Christmas [TS]

  it but there's like certain things I i [TS]

  will i will outright reject just because [TS]

  it's like I think that's BS to be a [TS]

  subscription but yeah so anyway response [TS]

  to this week by Casper and specially [TS]

  engineered mattress and a shockingly [TS]

  fair price go to Casper calm / ATP and [TS]

  use code ATP for fifty dollars towards [TS]

  your mattress Casper creative one [TS]

  perfect mattress sold directly to [TS]

  consumers eliminating Commission driven [TS]

  inflated prices the award-winning [TS]

  capture mattress was developed in-house [TS]

  by their engineers has a sleek design [TS]

  and delivered in a remarkably small box [TS]

  you can get up narrow staircase is if [TS]

  you need to and now in addition to the [TS]

  mattress Casper also offers an adaptive [TS]

  pillow and soft breathable sheets [TS]

  imagine nation Israel let's face it i [TS]

  mean you onto a mattress store like you [TS]

  know like weirdly walk around with some [TS]

  salesmen hovering over you try to lie [TS]

  down on the mattress for like three [TS]

  seconds like okay I guess I want to [TS]

  spend my life on this like that's not a [TS]

  great way to buy a mattress and the [TS]

  prices are really really high and its [TS]

  high pressure sales they're usually [TS]

  Commission driven it's not a great [TS]

  system for consumers Casper has flipped [TS]

  on its head [TS]

  the mattress industry they don't even [TS]

  know what to do about Casper like [TS]

  they're they're freaking out probably [TS]

  should be at least Castro's revolution [TS]

  in the industry they cut the cost of [TS]

  dealing with these retailers and [TS]

  showrooms and pass the savings directly [TS]

  onto you [TS]

  now their mattress was developed with [TS]

  thousands of hours of their in-house [TS]

  engineering team time is an amazing [TS]

  combination of spring latex foam and [TS]

  supportive memory foam for just the [TS]

  right sink and just the right bounds and [TS]

  this is a breathable design that unlike [TS]

  pure memory foam this helps you feel [TS]

  cool it it doesn't surround you with [TS]

  like heat and and like constantly too [TS]

  much heat like the way memory foam can [TS]

  for a lot of people and so it you can [TS]

  regulate temperature properly throughout [TS]

  the night and all this is available for [TS]

  shockingly fair price and normally a [TS]

  really nice mattress you're going to pay [TS]

  them back two thousand dollars for [TS]

  really Casper 500 hours for twin 640 XL [TS]

  754 full 854 a queen and just 954 King [TS]

  this is really about half the price of [TS]

  what you're going to pay for most [TS]

  mattresses [TS]

  quality and all these mattresses by [TS]

  Casper are made in America there's also [TS]

  you know they've they've taken the [TS]

  problem of like how do you know what [TS]

  you're gonna like it or not you know [TS]

  you're not gonna just like line of the [TS]

  store for three minutes also buying [TS]

  online obviously sounds crazy to say [TS]

  they've taken care of you with this is [TS]

  completely risk-free you can try it with [TS]

  free delivery and free returns with home [TS]

  pick up if you don't like it with a [TS]

  hundred knight home trial so if you [TS]

  don't love it you have a hundred times [TS]

  to decide that and they will pick it up [TS]

  at your house and give you a full refund [TS]

  if you if you want to send it back [TS]

  it is easy and we've had we've had [TS]

  people tell us they love it and they [TS]

  keep it is awesome [TS]

  we've also had a few people writing to [TS]

  say you know what it wasn't for me and [TS]

  the return process was amazing [TS]

  so either way you win it's totally [TS]

  risk-free Casper understands how [TS]

  important this is to really truly sleep [TS]

  on it so you know is right for you or [TS]

  not to check it out today [TS]

  get yours today try for a hundred [TS]

  Knights in your own home with free [TS]

  delivery and free painless returns [TS]

  completely risk-free to Casper calm / [TS]

  ATP and use code ATP for fifty dollars [TS]

  towards your mattress [TS]

  thank you very much to catch for [TS]

  sponsoring our show called you know asks [TS]

  i was wondering if there's been any new [TS]

  tool software hardware that you've [TS]

  started using in 2016 at work at home [TS]

  that you think deserves a shout-out or [TS]

  additional recognition [TS]

  this is a fantastic question to which i [TS]

  can't think of any good answer and [TS]

  that's unfortunate the system working as [TS]

  design because if you can't think of it [TS]

  a couple seconds you have to pass [TS]

  yep that's pass i'm gonna go with get [TS]

  sub modules and especially using the [TS]

  music [TS]

  yeah exactly it's crazy this is a [TS]

  holiday party talking this is like real [TS]

  and and using them as a bird in [TS]

  particular with to get our app for the [TS]

  mac i think it's called tower now the [TS]

  tower after the mac oh that is fantastic [TS]

  that I love tower yeah so i use i mean i [TS]

  have i've tried many things over the [TS]

  years to to basically try to solve like [TS]

  how do i import other libraries are [TS]

  written by myself for like open source [TS]

  projects into you know how imports [TS]

  shared code to my apps and manage that [TS]

  and there's things like cocoa pods and [TS]

  that kind of dependency manager is also [TS]

  obviously methods like just copy the [TS]

  directory over and sticking your project [TS]

  and there's there's get [TS]

  sub trees & sub modules i have no idea [TS]

  why the two different things [TS]

  please don't write in the email to [TS]

  explain i don't care but thank you [TS]

  anyway but i have i've recently settled [TS]

  on sub-modules especially as managed by [TS]

  get our this wonderful mac app that i [TS]

  love so much just called our troops and [TS]

  it is finally a system that i'm sticking [TS]

  with and I'm very happy when I stuck [TS]

  with it now for a while I think it's [TS]

  been at least six months which is [TS]

  probably long as one of the systems not [TS]

  hated that it's great i have lots of my [TS]

  own shared libraries in here it's [TS]

  wonderful and its overall while it is [TS]

  not perfect and while the raw get way to [TS]

  do sub-modules is comically obtuse just [TS]

  like most of get and when you managing [TS]

  the GUI tool it's not too bad and and it [TS]

  is by far the lowest hassle and least [TS]

  fragile of these systems i've ever used [TS]

  that makes me think I have been fighting [TS]

  cocoapods left and right at work lately [TS]

  yeah you don't need to just stop it i'm [TS]

  telling you it's so much better this way [TS]

  i'm not convinced sub-modules right [TS]

  answer however i'm really interested in [TS]

  Punic which is a cleanroom [TS]

  re-implementation of Carthage done by [TS]

  schwa on Twitter and I forget his name [TS]

  on top my head holy crap what a pleasant [TS]

  person he tell you that there's that but [TS]

  anyway I've heard understood the Punic [TS]

  is very good i'd love to try it and so I [TS]

  I can't say that that is definitely my [TS]

  answer Jonathan Whyte that's right thank [TS]

  you saying the geek [TS]

  anyway i would i would love to give [TS]

  Peter a shot though John i mostly I'll [TS]

  take a pass miss but I when I read the [TS]

  question I realized in the letter of the [TS]

  question I have I do everything you know [TS]

  a new tool software hardware then you [TS]

  started using 2016 you think deserve a [TS]

  shout-out I think the much faster touch [TS]

  ID the entire world has been using for a [TS]

  year and a half it's awesome and I love [TS]

  the fact that my iphone 7 unlocked so [TS]

  quickly it's like magic is really it is [TS]

  the I think it's the most significant [TS]

  change on the iphone 7 that I've [TS]

  appreciated [TS]

  maybe second to the speed of light [TS]

  enough you know in general [TS]

  Chris family asks for Casey and John any [TS]

  desire to become independent desire yes [TS]

  but strength of soul strength of [TS]

  character probably not i i i recognize [TS]

  that that having a jobby job is not [TS]

  really any more stable than having a [TS]

  completely independent lifestyle but it [TS]

  feels more stable and has health [TS]

  insurance and and so right now I really [TS]

  like my job I've been there since [TS]

  fabruary I really really like it and I [TS]

  don't plan to leave but we'll see what [TS]

  happens [TS]

  john is a similar desire yes but a much [TS]

  larger helping of fear [TS]

  yeah exactly for Marco still from chris [TS]

  any desire to start companies something [TS]

  with more than three or four employees [TS]

  no not even a little i am terrible at [TS]

  managing people i don't enjoy managing [TS]

  people i really don't enjoy the idea of [TS]

  having to manage investors which that [TS]

  would probably require and so no I'm [TS]

  very happy limiting myself to just what [TS]

  i can do on my own [TS]

  fair enough for all of us who would win [TS]

  a 100-metre sprint maybe me but quite [TS]

  possibly John and in a 5k race i have no [TS]

  idea you guys the hundred-meter I'm i [TS]

  don't i don't know I'd like i'm not good [TS]

  at sprinting so i probably have to give [TS]

  that one to kc 5k i win i think that's [TS]

  probably fair a wire 3d movies terrible [TS]

  because it's just a gimmick Marco any [TS]

  thoughts [TS]

  I have never seen one so I can't answer [TS]

  now you're better off cost the best [TS]

  Marco answer her [TS]

  are you surprised is really surprised [TS]

  right he's terrible job for the terrible [TS]

  serial it's all right i mean then I mean [TS]

  terrible whatever the problem with 3d [TS]

  movies is when we see the world with our [TS]

  two eyeballs we can choose what to focus [TS]

  on 3d movies [TS]

  you can't do that 3d movies choose what [TS]

  to focus on for years they have 3d [TS]

  effect or you wear it seems like things [TS]

  are closer to you and farther away but [TS]

  if you decide to look at the background [TS]

  doesn't suddenly come into focus and so [TS]

  it's not like the real-world experience [TS]

  but it's also not a flat picture like a [TS]

  regular movie and so it's uncomfortable [TS]

  middle ground [TS]

  that i personally find terrible that is [TS]

  an annoyingly good answer dream of [TS]

  five-car garage [TS]

  god i wish i had looked at this before [TS]

  the show I made in parentheses 1 million [TS]

  dollar budget like well which is it [TS]

  well I think it's like let's say the [TS]

  best five cars you can buy for a million [TS]

  or less yeah just right on office [TS]

  lighting around front [TS]

  alright so i asked martin DBS that's [TS]

  what like a quarter-million 200,000 I [TS]

  jeep wrangler and no I'm serious I'm [TS]

  really serious there's less fun of your [TS]

  list intern I so ask martin DBS jeep [TS]

  wrangler i bmw m3 porsche cayenne turbo [TS]

  that's I think what I think you're over [TS]

  you know you're on my over-budget [TS]

  reliably know what did I would say stay [TS]

  within budget and just stopped short [TS]

  when you're done with when you use know [TS]

  what I think your way the DBS is like [TS]

  let's call it 200 the kind of wondered [TS]

  what are you kidding i think you need a [TS]

  price that out oh all right fine I'll [TS]

  just call for sure the impression [TS]

  probably has like 19 options alone [TS]

  go ahead that's what I will just stop it [TS]

  for then all right let's go to John [TS]

  since I feel like I've been going to [TS]

  Marco first for a lot so that's John [TS]

  let's go to Eunice I i'm going to say [TS]

  ferrari 488 ferrari 458 better since you [TS]

  used a used BMW m3 the reunion 4346 [TS]

  generation the one that I like all slow [TS]

  down why because that's the m3 that I [TS]

  like I like how it looks [TS]

  I don't like how the new ones look but i [TS]

  want that I want that type of car and [TS]

  mercedes s-class really okay Marco I go [TS]

  Tesla 100d if that doesn't exist yet p [TS]

  100d number two would be asked Martin [TS]

  whatever aston martin is cool and sexy I [TS]

  don't keep trying to do which ones they [TS]

  are its people anyways yeah what's wrong [TS]

  with the two-door one they're not the [TS]

  crazy for abomination [TS]

  so yeah one of those of course and some [TS]

  kind of like small simple stick shift [TS]

  two-door car whether it's a Cayenne I'm [TS]

  sorry whether that's a caiman sorry [TS]

  oh my god so [TS]

  your apology's yeah weather came in or [TS]

  an end to it probably one of those you [TS]

  know and then the other two spots i [TS]

  would just leave like I'd fill spots 13 [TS]

  and five and just leave spots too and [TS]

  for mtv's have room because i love a [TS]

  garage with space walk around don't have [TS]

  that and I've never i believe i've only [TS]

  ever had very crowded garages in my life [TS]

  so like space would be an amazing luxury [TS]

  you don't know crowd and garages usually [TS]

  told i do not have a cavernous garage [TS]

  but both Marco and John have you even [TS]

  met garage [TS]

  mine is by far the smallest also i want [TS]

  to change my answer i forgot the model [TS]

  as I was thrown in there a budget left [TS]

  yeah that's a good call that's good call [TS]

  program start have says what is the best [TS]

  TV show movie podcast of 2016 [TS]

  I feel like I should have an answer for [TS]

  this it's ours anyone yet totally [TS]

  actually know what i think it was in [TS]

  2016 that I discovered on 99 percent [TS]

  invisible which I know everyone else on [TS]

  the planet has been listening to for [TS]

  years yet but i really loved nine [TS]

  percent visible and i just discovered it [TS]

  this year so that'll be my answer [TS]

  john thinks there you go to Marco Marco [TS]

  hasn't seen a TV shows movies are [TS]

  probably hasn't always yeah I Star Wars [TS]

  yeah and then do I saw Dorie the finding [TS]

  Dory thing with my kid I wouldn't best [TS]

  i'm gonna do best one of each because [TS]

  they'll turn into a couple episode I'm [TS]

  just gonna say best TV show of my memory [TS]

  so short so i could be forgetting [TS]

  something important but West world is [TS]

  the most recent in my mind that's that I [TS]

  think it's my favorite TV show of this [TS]

  year and podcast who knows and movie who [TS]

  knows [TS]

  Marco I think my favorite podcast of the [TS]

  year might be upgrade its you notice [TS]

  that the show with Jason's now my curly [TS]

  and it's basically like a text [TS]

  commentary show not too different from [TS]

  this they just do a really really good [TS]

  job of it so i'm a big fan that overall [TS]

  I would say my favorite new podcast [TS]

  recently even though that wasn't part of [TS]

  the question is due by friday by Merlin [TS]

  Mann max Temkin out cocks it is so [TS]

  incredibly funny it's pretty new so [TS]

  lonely they're like 45 present but my [TS]

  god it's funny it's just amazing so that [TS]

  is that is a perfect show [TS]

  alright still from program how do you [TS]

  usually pick us [TS]

  three loved ones are you good gift [TS]

  givers I I I feel like every third or [TS]

  fourth year i do really well and the [TS]

  rest of the time I'm a frigging disaster [TS]

  Marco not too much better about the same [TS]

  the main problem is that that TIFF and I [TS]

  like we will like by each other like [TS]

  cool things throughout the whole years [TS]

  when it comes time for a holiday it's [TS]

  often like you know well I was impatient [TS]

  two months ago and bought you this thing [TS]

  for like happy wednesday and now there's [TS]

  nothing left [TS]

  yeah John i am a terrible gift giver and [TS]

  how do i pick gives badly in desperation [TS]

  hopefully with help its is a disaster [TS]

  totally you are an impressively bad gift [TS]

  receiver as well [TS]

  yes is also amazing i would i would [TS]

  abolish all the whole gifting that I i [TS]

  hope my gift my wish for the world is [TS]

  that all of you get a chance to at some [TS]

  point witness John siracusa opening [TS]

  presents it to give me a prank gift of a [TS]

  giant thing of sprite so I prank gifts i [TS]

  feel like i receive with a with the [TS]

  ill-mannered appropriately but even [TS]

  given the real gift that you open up [TS]

  before and after that it was something [TS]

  to see [TS]

  it's true alright moving on Johnny [TS]

  cirillo says cancer cases is a pioneer [TS]

  in podcasting and podcast format among [TS]

  other touchstones like each OS 10 [TS]

  reviews cgpgrey has said that he is one [TS]

  of these podcasting heroes Marco Arment [TS]

  his reputation from co-founding tumblr [TS]

  to being the independent app developer [TS]

  and and able to be independent because [TS]

  of the app store he solicited proaches [TS]

  the trio from the opposite and i'm not [TS]

  sure if that's good or bad [TS]

  where his friendship with Marco has [TS]

  exposed talents on the show itself ok [TS]

  good how each of you manage this Fame [TS]

  like stature reputation and independence [TS]

  of a show as great as ATP thank you are [TS]

  their predecessors each of you have [TS]

  learned from i will start my [TS]

  predecessors are Marco Arment and John [TS]

  siracusa and I say that both plus [TS]

  microbots and also because it's actually [TS]

  true getting warm i was a jackal was [TS]

  that I was a jackal on the five by five [TS]

  chat room i genuinely loved both of [TS]

  their shows it was both of their shows [TS]

  that got me into podcasts [TS]

  and I really really mean that I [TS]

  certainly admire many many many many [TS]

  many other podcasters like my curly and [TS]

  Jason smell of upgrade at like Stephen [TS]

  Hackett as some examples but it was [TS]

  gianmarco that really got me into [TS]

  podcasts and so I really appreciate the [TS]

  two of them [TS]

  Marco yeah I i basically i have i've [TS]

  learned a lot from other podcasters [TS]

  people you know people like you look [TS]

  nice today people that was a very very [TS]

  strong influence on me and my style my [TS]

  editing style also early on i I'd had [TS]

  their way better than me at it but you [TS]

  know that's kind of who I'm imitating a [TS]

  lot of the time I've also learned a lot [TS]

  from earlier podcast pioneers in this [TS]

  space people like damn Benjamin john [TS]

  gruber and and as as relay and Mike and [TS]

  Steven and the crowd over there have [TS]

  have really developed way bigger and [TS]

  wider than a lot of us can can do with [TS]

  just like one or two shows here and [TS]

  there [TS]

  I'm learning a lot from what they're [TS]

  doing as well and outside of the [TS]

  immediate podcasting ecosystem [TS]

  I also learned a lot from howard stern [TS]

  listen a lot a lot of that isn't as an [TS]

  as an adult I don't much anymore because [TS]

  we basically can't listen whenever our [TS]

  kids around which is increasingly [TS]

  frequently so I don't listen a lot [TS]

  anymore but I i did learn a lot from [TS]

  howard stern's style [TS]

  no not like that like sex stuff but just [TS]

  his general speaking style his [TS]

  impatience for boring this so I didn't [TS]

  learn enough that and a lot of it some [TS]

  of the ways he does things and some of [TS]

  these principles John how do i should [TS]

  have thought about this question more [TS]

  beforehand is so many influences like [TS]

  this but i always go back to the one [TS]

  that the my main my is a singular main [TS]

  podcasting influence that made me [TS]

  understand what profits were as a medium [TS]

  as a format or not you know that they [TS]

  are thing and also made me believe that [TS]

  it's a thing that I can do which are the [TS]

  tooth ingredients you need to become [TS]

  podcasting one know that exists and to [TS]

  somehow believe that you think you can [TS]

  make one that's more Lafferty who used [TS]

  to do a podcast just a bunch of I guess [TS]

  for people who want to be fiction [TS]

  writers and she eventually became a [TS]

  fiction writer and has written several [TS]

  novels now and so she said the whole big [TS]

  arc through that whole series and she [TS]

  does a whole bunch of other podcasts [TS]

  people in the market and you know I was [TS]

  a writer do mostly technical writing [TS]

  online in those days I wasn't writing [TS]

  fiction but I like hearing podcast about [TS]

  writing and just hearing her do a [TS]

  podcast is her in front of microphones [TS]

  to the pockets as I should be writing [TS]

  sitting in front of a microphone in her [TS]

  house talking i don't know how many [TS]

  hours that I listened to and I thought [TS]

  that podcast was great and I thought she [TS]

  was great and I thought podcast were [TS]

  great and I thought you know I have [TS]

  things to say I could save them into a [TS]

  microphone in my house too so I'm really [TS]

  grateful pretty nice [TS]

  Daniel Peters asks i was wondering what [TS]

  each of you considered your favorite [TS]

  apple product was that rose release this [TS]

  year i was thinking about this earlier [TS]

  actually and because it's our show and [TS]

  in part my show I'm going to cheat and [TS]

  use to apple products i freakin love the [TS]

  air pods and I freaking love my iphone 7 [TS]

  yes there's problems with both but truth [TS]

  be told I really really love both of [TS]

  these products i think the iphone 7 is [TS]

  my favorite iphone ever in part because [TS]

  i didn't get plus and the air pods are [TS]

  really phenomenal so i really like both [TS]

  of those John I'm going found 72 like we [TS]

  talked about the the one feature but yet [TS]

  that's personal Apple then release that [TS]

  much this year that i had contact with [TS]

  and I'd as much like their pods my new [TS]

  iphone is definitely my favorite apple [TS]

  thing that they release is here [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna go iphone 7 overall [TS]

  especially in particular the jet black [TS]

  finish iphone 7 because the the actual [TS]

  upgrade to the internals was was a [TS]

  fairly minor upgrade from the success [TS]

  but the the exterior change with with [TS]

  that the jet black finishes is [TS]

  substantial changes the way the phone [TS]

  feels and makes it makes it able to be [TS]

  used at a case for our people including [TS]

  me so that's that's a pretty big change [TS]

  i'm also going to give honorable mention [TS]

  to the 9.7 inch iPad pro which I don't [TS]

  use it to its full extent a ton but I do [TS]

  use it very often it is my kitchen ipad [TS]

  and it is my main podcast player in the [TS]

  house while doing things [TS]

  and so I'm using it frequently and no [TS]

  matter how much or how little you use [TS]

  your iPad 9.7 inch iPad pro is in my [TS]

  opinion unquestionably the best i've had [TS]

  ever made it is better than they usually [TS]

  are even like you can always say like oh [TS]

  this year this ipad was the best one [TS]

  ever made but i think that point seven [TS]

  pro is especially like especially clear [TS]

  and unambiguously a great update and [TS]

  just an awesome product all around and [TS]

  there are basically no downsides to it [TS]

  that aren't they don't apply to every [TS]

  ipad and there's tons of upsides to it [TS]

  so 9.7 inch ipad is a home run [TS]

  oh meri behna me says I would really [TS]

  like to hear how you do backup or share [TS]

  your photos and your processing routines [TS]

  I run out a challenge i wrote a blog [TS]

  post about this will link in the show [TS]

  notes boom [TS]

  Marco backup is a super-duper clone a [TS]

  time machine share my synology and [TS]

  backblaze sharing photos and processing [TS]

  routines a whole different question I 08 [TS]

  this is sorry i misplaced the / in the [TS]

  way parts the sentence is about what i [TS]

  thought was different question about how [TS]

  do you backup period and also if then [TS]

  how do you share your photos [TS]

  that's not how i read it i read it as [TS]

  heavy backup / share your photos but it [TS]

  could be either way it could be either [TS]

  way anyway that's how I back up my [TS]

  photos are included in the back seat [TS]

  covers and and how do i and my photo [TS]

  processing is still a mess and still in [TS]

  flux but the the system i've used for [TS]

  the last six months or so per year [TS]

  whatever it's been everything on the [TS]

  phone stays in photos app on all [TS]

  platforms everything shot on a camera [TS]

  goes to lightroom first I pic and [TS]

  process and edit in lightroom and I [TS]

  export finished jpegs into photos where [TS]

  they were they will live forever [TS]

  all right John um so let's see of [TS]

  backups I all my photos are in a photo [TS]

  library on the 5k imac about 5k imac in [TS]

  its entirety is backed up to time [TS]

  machine both locally on my synology and [TS]

  also through crashplan [TS]

  I also push the photos up to google [TS]

  photos as well so my photos are many [TS]

  places for sharing we use the iCloud you [TS]

  know library sharing what the hell do I [TS]

  used to be photostream what is it called [TS]

  now iCloud photo library know the [TS]

  sharing features like we're going to [TS]

  Sharia anyway we use the iCloud sharing [TS]

  feature because all of our family you [TS]

  have iOS devices and they get a little [TS]

  notification and they can go and look at [TS]

  it sideways shearing and processing [TS]

  everything goes that you know we connect [TS]

  the camera to the 5k imac my it's on my [TS]

  wife's account to her phone stuff [TS]

  automatically shows up there for [TS]

  everything is on my phone that goes to [TS]

  my mac and photos and periodically in [TS]

  fact just did this recently periodically [TS]

  i do export unmodified originals from my [TS]

  mac to a folder and then import that [TS]

  folder into the big photos library to [TS]

  make the I be iCloud family photo [TS]

  library that Apple refuses to make nice [TS]

  to be clear my backup is crashplan the [TS]

  only reason i don't use backblaze is [TS]

  because backblaze doesn't easily support [TS]

  a network drives if it wasn't for that I [TS]

  would absolutely be on back place [TS]

  tomorrow about rats the same reason I do [TS]

  it because we can we mount the synology [TS]

  on my wife's 5k imac and because it's a [TS]

  network share crash man will back it up [TS]

  my personal back Mac is back-to-back [TS]

  place there you go [TS]

  Ryan good let asks what's the most [TS]

  difficult challenge for transition that [TS]

  you've had in your professional life [TS]

  um I'm gonna go here again with the 24 [TS]

  um i think number one my last job I got [TS]

  a deserved reputation for being a [TS]

  complainer i think i did too much [TS]

  complaining of fixing and it was [TS]

  challenging but rewarding to move away [TS]

  from that and similarly I was doing [TS]

  something that I was very comfortable in [TS]

  doing my last job and now i'm doing iOS [TS]

  development which I am comfortable in [TS]

  but I certainly wasn't when I started [TS]

  and so that was very challenging and [TS]

  very difficult but i'm glad i've done it [TS]

  Marco this this is gonna be a ridiculous [TS]

  humble brag and I apologize for that and [TS]

  then and that is the transition to have [TS]

  any large enough audience and an enough [TS]

  influence that when i write something it [TS]

  spreads often a lot more than i [TS]

  anticipated and there are ramifications [TS]

  to that and so I've basically had to [TS]

  learn how to responsibly have this kind [TS]

  of of audience and and not get myself [TS]

  into trouble or situations that I [TS]

  personally regret or that mitt that [TS]

  exploded in my face unexpectedly and i [TS]

  have not completed this transition or [TS]

  prospects yeah but I i think i am slowly [TS]

  learning basically like how how to [TS]

  responsibly have the audience that that [TS]

  I had that I now have I think that was [TS]

  really good answer actually John uh-huh [TS]

  i did read this before and I have been [TS]

  having trouble picking what I guess [TS]

  probably the best one is no I was [TS]

  working in college I was working like [TS]

  tech and you know in the industry in [TS]

  doing it was that the advent of the web [TS]

  so I was getting into that but I also [TS]

  worked like in the ID helpdesk and stuff [TS]

  like that anyway I transition right from [TS]

  you know I got the my fresh out of [TS]

  college I got it kind of when I was in [TS]

  college and then just kept it afterwards [TS]

  but then i moved away and so I was [TS]

  telecommuting for that job his job that [TS]

  I had already had like it's not like I [TS]

  talking the whole time I had been going [TS]

  into the office and start telecommuting [TS]

  for two-and-a-half years or so and that [TS]

  transition from being a person who goes [TS]

  to a job as I had since I got my very [TS]

  first job as a teenager all the way up [TS]

  through college and so on and so forth [TS]

  where you go to a place and do a thing [TS]

  to being a telecommuter i thought was [TS]

  great i love telecommuting but in [TS]

  hindsight that was very difficult [TS]

  transition because i had to go all [TS]

  through all the things that I imagine [TS]

  anybody working almost to go through [TS]

  where you are responsible for your own [TS]

  time and you know you need to you know [TS]

  anything that anyone is independent or [TS]

  work from home otherwise has to deal [TS]

  with I dealt with that in my very first [TS]

  job and like so many people on this very [TS]

  podcast my problem was not motivating [TS]

  myself to work my problem was having any [TS]

  kind of reasonable work-life balance [TS]

  like I don't have kids then but I was [TS]

  newly married but I spent way too much [TS]

  time like it was like every waking [TS]

  second I was [TS]

  on the computer most of the time doing [TS]

  work related things and that's what i [TS]

  got in big trouble with RSI issues and [TS]

  you could have been career-ending and it [TS]

  was very difficult and just learning how [TS]

  to be a human being with a balance [TS]

  between work and non-work it was [TS]

  especially difficult after coming off of [TS]

  college where for the first time I had [TS]

  access to the internet on you know at an [TS]

  ethernet connection not a modem like I [TS]

  was on the actual internet and like I [TS]

  spent you know again every second that [TS]

  it wasn't in class I was glued to some [TS]

  kind of external market other terminal [TS]

  or whatever in the computer lab that [TS]

  wasn't healthy balance of there but that [TS]

  was probably the most difficult after [TS]

  that I think I'm more or less figured [TS]

  out that aspect of the my professional [TS]

  life balancing the the life part with [TS]

  the work part brand RHONJ asks if you [TS]

  could force Apple to enter one product [TS]

  category they're not currently in which [TS]

  would it be the president pro desktop [TS]

  business doesn't count yet but you know [TS]

  I I this is that I might get dinged for [TS]

  this but i'd like to see Apple do like a [TS]

  standalone camera and I know yes that [TS]

  the iphone particularly as a really [TS]

  great camera blah blah but I'd be really [TS]

  interested to see an apple standalone [TS]

  camera and I know they did that years [TS]

  and years and years ago back when you [TS]

  know John was a Mac user but it would be [TS]

  interesting to see it today mark oh this [TS]

  is it this is a hard for me to pick [TS]

  because my answer it mostly is like [TS]

  stuff they already do but just do it [TS]

  better but if I had to pick one i would [TS]

  say i would like to see them address the [TS]

  the echo / google home market at but the [TS]

  problem the problem with that is that i [TS]

  don't honestly think Cirie is good [TS]

  enough for that yet and I also don't [TS]

  think Apple would do any kind of [TS]

  integrations with third-party api's and [TS]

  stuff that would make it as useful as [TS]

  the echo is so basically i want Apple to [TS]

  either make their current products [TS]

  better or if they're going to enter a [TS]

  new market the only one I can think of [TS]

  is one they be bad at which is probably [TS]

  a good sign [TS]

  John gonna pick a gigantic desktop [TS]

  touchscreen thing that's plugged into [TS]

  the wall basically Microsoft service to [TS]

  do so interesting is they're not in that [TS]

  market and [TS]

  and.and like Marco I have a you know i [TS]

  can think of all sorts of things that I [TS]

  would like them to do but then I feel [TS]

  like they wouldn't do a good job and I [TS]

  think they could do a good job of this [TS]

  if they put their mind to it [TS]

  buckless asks does anyone in the ATP [TS]

  group using stand-up desk not at home [TS]

  but at work i use a very desk which is [TS]

  the standard issue corporate sit stand [TS]

  desks like a Don and I love it I i can't [TS]

  recommend it enough it's very spendy [TS]

  which is why I worked out for me and I [TS]

  don't have one at home but I really [TS]

  really really like it if you are to get [TS]

  one though [TS]

  absolutely get a Matt and I have a [TS]

  recommendation for one so ask me on [TS]

  twitter if you need one for the Sharks I [TS]

  wanted to actually I i have a standing [TS]

  desk that I stole from tumblr when I [TS]

  left and it is it is really it's a very [TS]

  nice one its it was so you know it's old [TS]

  like some kind of office furniture [TS]

  company back you know almost 10 years [TS]

  ago so i have no idea of you I'm sure [TS]

  the market totally different now but one [TS]

  thing I I don't use it instead of modal [TS]

  lot I i have gone through phases where [TS]

  have i get if i had you know certain [TS]

  back inflammation like disc information [TS]

  on my back I would go through phases [TS]

  where it uses insane mode for like [TS]

  almost permanently for months and then [TS]

  go back to setting so it is nice to have [TS]

  the option is also wonderful when [TS]

  routing cables and doing cable [TS]

  management clean up in the back to get [TS]

  up a little bit and have that kind of [TS]

  headroom literally but one thing I [TS]

  recommend if you get a standing desk my [TS]

  biggest recommendation is get one that [TS]

  has memories for the different positions [TS]

  that can do that like at least two [TS]

  memory so you can have at least a stored [TS]

  ceiling height and a storage standing [TS]

  height because otherwise it's it's [TS]

  frustrating to like have to be fidgeting [TS]

  with it to get it just right [TS]

  every time you change it so if you have [TS]

  memory presets you can just set it where [TS]

  you like it and then just always repeat [TS]

  the same two levels [TS]

  John never worked on a standing desk i [TS]

  would try it i'm interested in trying [TS]

  but i never have enough also quick [TS]

  real-time follow-up John should be [TS]

  friend of the show asked how often is it [TS]

  in standing mode [TS]

  usually every day not always but usually [TS]

  every day for probably a quarter of the [TS]

  day Phil chatham asks although ATP [TS]

  sponsor supported have you ever [TS]

  considered member donations aside from [TS]

  merchandise [TS]

  we've talked about this but maybe not in [TS]

  a published show [TS]

  uh we've considered it but quite [TS]

  candidly I don't think it would ever [TS]

  come close to earning as much money as a [TS]

  sponsorship would any thoughts from [TS]

  either of you guys helping out [TS]

  I mean that's you know our sponsorships [TS]

  make good money [TS]

  I one of the things i learned from [TS]

  howard stern which I mentioned it before [TS]

  so just go over briefly is that he said [TS]

  on a number of occasions basically that [TS]

  he likes to minimize the times and ways [TS]

  in which he asked the audience for money [TS]

  because that way when you do ask them [TS]

  for money or you know that it basically [TS]

  makes it count and it you're not like [TS]

  wasting that goodwill all the time [TS]

  necessary you're not nickel-and-diming [TS]

  your audience and everything so [TS]

  basically we try to make this year we [TS]

  sell t-shirts like once a year for [TS]

  everybody see usually or near at least [TS]

  and and and and we know we have you [TS]

  listened to show response ships and so [TS]

  far the only way to really ask you for [TS]

  money ever and that that works for us we [TS]

  make money from sponsorships anything [TS]

  else I think would not only bring in a [TS]

  lot less money than the sponsor would [TS]

  but also kind of cloud the message and [TS]

  kind of make it feel like we are like I [TS]

  don't double charging you or asking you [TS]

  too often [TS]

  yeah I completely great Charles heart [TS]

  asks which apple executives your [TS]

  favorite which one do i guess this is [TS]

  multi-part so let's start there with [TS]

  which apple executives your favorite I [TS]

  do love me some phil schiller yeah he's [TS]

  he's goofy in the best possible way [TS]

  although God now I'm thinking about [TS]

  Craig mmm yeah I'm have to change my [TS]

  mind I'm have to go with Craig Marko [TS]

  well if it's good if it's about like [TS]

  public interaction i think i have to go [TS]

  with Phil because phil is he has he is [TS]

  so gloriously dry and it-it-it like it [TS]

  that that that shows itself in weird [TS]

  ways sometimes because he's he's like he [TS]

  seems like he's a nice person but to get [TS]

  him to show genuine enthusiasm for [TS]

  anything is is seemingly not very easy [TS]

  and is he just has an impressive level [TS]

  of dryness about him that I really enjoy [TS]

  even when you can just kind of barely [TS]

  see it through like the marketing [TS]

  message like the mario run announcement [TS]

  email [TS]

  a post on Twitter that was like it was [TS]

  the most like dry unexcited even if ever [TS]

  seen for emotional effort and that just [TS]

  had Phil Schiller all over at like he [TS]

  probably had something to do with their [TS]

  with the opposite of that but if you [TS]

  know I i think if you look at like [TS]

  activity of like who whose work I like [TS]

  the best [TS]

  that's got to be Craig enough John Mark [TS]

  with the market to pick 20 final that I [TS]

  kind of did too [TS]

  yeah I will if someone yep I I feel the [TS]

  same way about Phil but i gotta go with [TS]

  seafood because it gave me a file system [TS]

  haha who have died both of you all right [TS]

  dad is next from Charles heart which one [TS]

  leaving Apple would be the saddest i'm [TS]

  going to absolutely go with Phil on this [TS]

  one John yeah they'll definitely i go [TS]

  craig on that 1i i think i have it with [TS]

  that if Craig left that would be you [TS]

  know as much as I like Phil I think I [TS]

  would be my BF said if you even leave [TS]

  I'd be a lot more upset i think of Craig [TS]

  left because I feel like that would [TS]

  represent so much more of like what I [TS]

  care about being gone from the company [TS]

  anyone who you think leaving would [TS]

  actually be a net win I want to pass on [TS]

  that [TS]

  that's union but that's that's mean John [TS]

  yeah i don't think i don't know enough [TS]

  about the inner workings of the company [TS]

  to to say Johnny I thought of [TS]

  haha that's cold not a bad answer though [TS]

  Andrew Derek says all of you primarily [TS]

  use Apple devices or products what two [TS]

  or three non apple products each of you [TS]

  what are two or three not Apple products [TS]

  that each of you use a regular basis [TS]

  this is a great great question um I [TS]

  don't know if I can do two or three just [TS]

  list them don't describe why they're [TS]

  good but one that I can think of one [TS]

  that i can think of off the top of my [TS]

  head that I absolutely freaking love and [TS]

  have loved for years now is my synology [TS]

  which to be fair was sent to me for free [TS]

  but i swear to god i love this thing and [TS]

  if if I knew then how much I would love [TS]

  it i would absolutely have paid my own [TS]

  money to buy it [TS]

  Marco almost all of my audio gear is not [TS]

  apple and all of my kin [TS]

  bros except for my iphone which [TS]

  admittedly is a frequently used one yeah [TS]

  cameras like those are all [TS]

  yeah those are all non apple as well and [TS]

  you know audio in and out microphone [TS]

  interface headphone amp headphones [TS]

  because they're part of my family so [TS]

  this people keep that was going i'm also [TS]

  a huge fan of my fujitsu scansnap [TS]

  scanner which is incredibly boring but [TS]

  incredibly satisfying that works so well [TS]

  i would also pile on the camera on the [TS]

  camera one that was a great answer [TS]

  John I'm gonna go with my panasonic [TS]

  plasma television which I still love my [TS]

  sony playstation 4 pro which I love and [TS]

  play every day including just before the [TS]

  show finally finished out the srl record [TS]

  book from last year I still kept it [TS]

  around because i know'd finally [TS]

  completed what else I my synology just [TS]

  like a said with all the exactly same [TS]

  caveat if my synology broken i think [TS]

  about breaking all time I would [TS]

  absolutely by no one in fact I've been [TS]

  thinking about buying anyone just to get [TS]

  all the new cool one like I'm looking at [TS]

  my synology yeah you're old and your [TS]

  discs are small let me buy a new one but [TS]

  you know it's still working fine so I'm [TS]

  not gonna point that money and you know [TS]

  you got the different discs and right I [TS]

  know but this model thing mine supports [TS]

  btrfs and oh god the the new ones have [TS]

  faster chips for transcoding play [TS]

  faster chips for transcoding play [TS]

  stop and yes I could replace this with [TS]

  mr what am I gonna do with all these [TS]

  gigantic discs lord knows I can put them [TS]

  inside a mac anymore [TS]

  sick burn alright Charles hunt asks if [TS]

  the mac excuse me if the imac pro became [TS]

  a reality what components and [TS]

  configurations would justify the pro [TS]

  label to you [TS]

  that's a great question i think just an [TS]

  absurd amount of ram and absurd amount [TS]

  of hard drive space which isn't I mean I [TS]

  shouldn't call my hard drive anymore an [TS]

  SSD space and a really really beefy [TS]

  graphics card i think the graphics card [TS]

  alone might be enough [TS]

  John I need i think i would justify to [TS]

  me I think I need to see ram i don't [TS]

  need Zeon's but i need easy ram tons of [TS]

  ram and big honking graphics card like [TS]

  so the cpu is is you would expect me to [TS]

  list that but I'm not gonna I was like [TS]

  whatever easy rim and i don't know like [TS]

  you know until may not have those [TS]

  combination of parts available but [TS]

  technically it is possible [TS]

  easy around and really fast graphics [TS]

  card and you didn't need to have cpus [TS]

  because you knew i would cover them haha [TS]

  so I I'm gonna go with basically two [TS]

  things that are that are related [TS]

  basically they require each other I'm [TS]

  gonna go with both [TS]

  hi korzy on so it basically more than [TS]

  four cores give me at least double at [TS]

  least eight cores because that matters [TS]

  and i will use that and then also what [TS]

  should be required to do that in the [TS]

  first place [TS]

  give me a cooling enclosure that can [TS]

  have the computer under very very high [TS]

  workloads and still be silent in the [TS]

  room because the trashcan mac pro can do [TS]

  that the old Mac Pro's almost did that [TS]

  and the imac and all the laptops and [TS]

  everything they make today except for [TS]

  the macbook one cannot do that [TS]

  everything else ever the community make [TS]

  underload you hear fans and I want a [TS]

  computer that is advanced and graceful [TS]

  enough to have a hundred and sixty watt [TS]

  cpu and there and to have me never hear [TS]

  the fan in a regular room in regular [TS]

  conditions when it's under maximum load [TS]

  dead pine asks you're forced to choose [TS]

  one line of Apple computers to kill [TS]

  which one is it [TS]

  I definitely the mac pro cause I'm tired [TS]

  of hearing you to whine about Nina and [TS]

  all kidding aside I would kill the [TS]

  macbook air i think the backpack is a [TS]

  great replacement I don't really [TS]

  understand why the macbook [TS]

  there's they're ok I do it's about price [TS]

  point but really kill the macbook air [TS]

  Marco kill everything that is non retina [TS]

  and has a spinning disk hard drive and [TS]

  that would include the macbook air and [TS]

  the base models of the imac and the mac [TS]

  mini I think that you can't you can't [TS]

  just pick the base is a line of [TS]

  computers you've got to see the whole [TS]

  imac so the macbook air is the answer [TS]

  like that that is a line of computers [TS]

  and it shouldn't exist and it should be [TS]

  removed and replaced by a better [TS]

  computer that it's the same price point [TS]

  tom wilkinson asks this one is mostly [TS]

  into John if you could design your [TS]

  perfect gaming console what would it be [TS]

  it wouldn't be that different than the [TS]

  existing playstation 4 i'm mostly happy [TS]

  with everything they did there I would [TS]

  change the control a little bit how to [TS]

  ditch the island really you know [TS]

  alright Marco any thoughts on that by [TS]

  chance not at all [TS]

  okay good talk friend of mine Aaron [TS]

  factor asks do you guys have any [TS]

  techniques resolutions stop looking at [TS]

  my damn phone so often that's about it [TS]

  Marco I really do year's resolutions for [TS]

  for all the Merlin reasons of like [TS]

  that's kind of that they're not usually [TS]

  productive or effective but one thing [TS]

  I'd like to do more of in the future as [TS]

  a general thing is less time wasted [TS]

  checking social media and more time [TS]

  making things [TS]

  mm yep completely ready John i have not [TS]

  i don't do new years resolutions but if [TS]

  you did what we what would you say and [TS]

  no i don't think so i don't think in [TS]

  those terms that I don't have anything [TS]

  right fair enough [TS]

  aw Paris asks in the past Apple has made [TS]

  cheap or cheaper polycarbonate laptops [TS]

  and ipods both which were bought by [TS]

  parents for kids and by college students [TS]

  these were the sort with these are sort [TS]

  of apple's version of quote my first [TS]

  sony I miss those that started a lot of [TS]

  lifelong Apple users doesn't concern you [TS]

  guys and apples evolution to exclusively [TS]

  high-end hardware won't allow young [TS]

  users to buy into their ecosystem any [TS]

  longer [TS]

  this is a great question of my first mac [TS]

  was a was a polycarbonate macbook [TS]

  Polly book as i love to call it which dr [TS]

  stephen Hackett bananas [TS]

  I i don't think it concerns me [TS]

  snow but it's it's a great point and in [TS]

  an interesting question Marco I think [TS]

  it's these this is more about price than [TS]

  about materials and so if they are [TS]

  satisfying lower-priced here that's [TS]

  great i mean when we were you know [TS]

  coming up in this in this area of each [TS]

  the cheapest max you could buy were like [TS]

  $2,000 and and that was in like nineteen [TS]

  nineties into thousands of dollars so [TS]

  a-after inflation we're doing pretty [TS]

  well even when even like the new macbook [TS]

  pros are pretty awesome it you know [TS]

  compared to you know how when we were [TS]

  when we were younger and getting into [TS]

  this i think as long as they serve lower [TS]

  price point somehow I think we're [TS]

  generally fine it it is a little bit [TS]

  unfortunate that the way to chose mr. [TS]

  lower price points is often things like [TS]

  non-retina screens and spinning hard [TS]

  drives which make the product overall [TS]

  suck that is unfortunate but as long as [TS]

  they hit those price points somehow I [TS]

  think they're okay on this particular [TS]

  front [TS]

  yeah I mostly read that the materials [TS]

  changes as a red herring here like that [TS]

  Apple is able to has been able to and [TS]

  currently is able to make a good [TS]

  entry-level computers that are higher [TS]

  quality that feel better because they're [TS]

  made of aluminum and you know again we [TS]

  have a roast rose-tinted glasses for the [TS]

  price points of the old things [TS]

  Apple's totally capable of making entry [TS]

  level ones with the current aluminum [TS]

  glass thing and they do and some of them [TS]

  are actually pretty good [TS]

  all right grant Avery asks i'm curious [TS]

  to know what is your daily carry on my [TS]

  person in my left front pocket I have [TS]

  keys i have a Listerine what a breath [TS]

  mint sort of things after what they're [TS]

  called a little like strip things [TS]

  yeah cool mint is my flavor of choice [TS]

  but also having oh I have a I have [TS]

  eyedrops sustained altra eyedrops [TS]

  because I we're hard contacts for [TS]

  reasons that are not terribly [TS]

  interesting and so my eyes get dry on a [TS]

  not terribly a regular basis in my right [TS]

  front pocket iphone 7 [TS]

  in matte black in the little change [TS]

  pocket Burt's Bees lip balm in the right [TS]

  back pocket a very small wallet i don't [TS]

  recall what the name is off top my head [TS]

  in the left back pocket a field notes oh [TS]

  and also in right front pocket a blue [TS]

  pilot precise v5 pen and also in my left [TS]

  front pocket Lately or my ear pods which [TS]

  i freakin love and that's it for my own [TS]

  person everyday carry is that all John [TS]

  yeah that's a John we got you I I don't [TS]

  carry anything in any of your pants back [TS]

  yeah you carry like the whole world with [TS]

  you Casey [TS]

  although to be fair John puts all that [TS]

  in his wallet yeah like everyone else [TS]

  when i go to work when I go to work I [TS]

  have my wallet with me but during the [TS]

  day it is not in any of my pockets and [TS]

  it's nothing that doesn't get my tickets [TS]

  noooo i would find in the front pocket [TS]

  on my head I do wear my badge at work [TS]

  like the badge and out of doors and [TS]

  stuff and that's quick clip to my belt [TS]

  on a little stretchy a single bobber to [TS]

  reach the door things but that's that's [TS]

  the only thing that's on you know even [TS]

  when I want to go to meetings and stuff [TS]

  i don't even take my phone with me [TS]

  wow that's intense that I don't know how [TS]

  many pockets i went through but i'm [TS]

  pretty sure i went through only for i [TS]

  just went back and forth on a few but [TS]

  the chat room is indicating to me i have [TS]

  about 87 pockets so if that's the case [TS]

  my bad [TS]

  grant Avery also asked and secondarily [TS]

  your personal bag setups as in what you [TS]

  each of you used to carry your things [TS]

  for day-to-day use as well as travel i [TS]

  am in love with Tom bin bags and in the [TS]

  show notes I've already linked my review [TS]

  of tambien cadet which is my laptop bag [TS]

  i also have a co-pilot which is my my [TS]

  kind of mercy for when I'm traveling [TS]

  light and in the review of the time in [TS]

  cadet I talk about the things that I [TS]

  carry in that bag if you ever have a [TS]

  little bit of extra money to spend i [TS]

  cannot recommend enough that tambien is [TS]

  phenomenal [TS]

  Marco your laptop bag if you are say [TS]

  traveling to dub dub or something along [TS]

  those lines i use a backpack from [TS]

  water-filled designs whose name I [TS]

  completely forget but they only make two [TS]

  backpacks and it's the smaller of the [TS]

  two but yeah they're they're fantastic [TS]

  that's SF bag comments that you know [TS]

  and whenever I whenever I do anything [TS]

  that involved carrying a laptop or iPad [TS]

  or anything else anywhere that I i use a [TS]

  backpack and I use that backpack and [TS]

  it's amazing [TS]

  that's what it's full of dongles now [TS]

  yeah of course it is john i'm a backpack [TS]

  person always have been my current one I [TS]

  think is an LL Bean thing I basically [TS]

  use the backpacks until they wear out [TS]

  and in my backpack is you know all my [TS]

  stuff we got my my phone my wallet [TS]

  you know iOS charging cables and grab [TS]

  thumb drives all sorts of it's not even [TS]

  that heavy because you know it's mostly [TS]

  nothing in it and you know i'll put hat [TS]

  and gloves in there in the colder [TS]

  weather stuff like that but basically [TS]

  that's it that's the backpack if you see [TS]

  me wcu probably see me wearing a [TS]

  backpack and that's what I do [TS]

  Martin sleet asks do you think pro [TS]

  hardware should be made to last and does [TS]

  that include upgradability in your [TS]

  opinion [TS]

  yes it should be made to last no it does [TS]

  not by necessity mean upgradability John [TS]

  same answer [TS]

  Marco yeah the same really upgradability [TS]