0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Reel AFM, this is Connected episode 422.
0:00:13That's a lot of episodes.
0:00:14Today's show is brought to you by our excellent sponsors,
0:00:17Squarespace, Hover, and ExpressVPN.
0:00:20I'm Federico Vittucci, and it's my absolute pleasure to be joined on this very fine day
0:00:25by my co-host, from the United States of America, Mr. Stephen Hackett.
0:00:29Hello, Stephen.
0:00:30Hello, Federico.
0:00:31How are you today?
0:00:33I am doing fantastic.
0:00:35How about you?
0:00:35I'm good.
0:00:36How are you in the pod cabin?
0:00:39How are things over there?
0:00:40There's calendars everywhere, man.
0:00:42Everywhere.
0:00:44Calendars everywhere.
0:00:46How many have you sent out already?
0:00:48I've sent out about 700.
0:00:52And I've got about 500 left.
0:00:54So I'm a little over halfway through.
0:00:56How are you--
0:00:58What are techniques not to lose your mind when doing this?
0:01:02- Well, I've had a good friend of mine, Ian,
0:01:04who's listening.
0:01:05Hi, Ian.
0:01:06Ian has been helping me in the evenings.
0:01:08- Okay.
0:01:09- A couple of evenings a week packing.
0:01:11So part of it is having someone else here to talk to, right?
0:01:13- Okay, right.
0:01:15- If it's just me, I'll listen to a podcast
0:01:19or watch something on YouTube.
0:01:21You just gotta keep your mind busy
0:01:23because it's not a lot of thinking, right?
0:01:24It's just kind of like reading what goes in the envelope,
0:01:27packing it, closing it up, printing the label.
0:01:30Nights that I've helped, or if someone else was helping me,
0:01:32we've done it in batches.
0:01:34So like last night we packed 100 identical packages
0:01:38of one calendar and one set of stickers,
0:01:40and then we like taped all those up
0:01:41and I could print those labels en masse.
0:01:43And so you find little efficiencies as you go.
0:01:45- Great point on the listening to a podcast.
0:01:48I think that's something that I've,
0:01:50it may sound obvious, but like it's something
0:01:52that I've been appreciating lately a lot,
0:01:55like having voices to keep you company when you're doing something that is
0:01:59extremely boring. For example,
0:02:01we spent the past two days at our new place.
0:02:04We had to clean some of the rooms with these,
0:02:08I think it's called like buffered acid.
0:02:12It's like a,
0:02:13like an acidic solution that removes like stuff that is left
0:02:18over from, from, you know, construction. So like,
0:02:22paint, you know, little drops of... Cock. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. And they told
0:02:28us like, look, the best way to do that is to go buy some like buffered acid and diluted
0:02:34a little bit in water and, you know, put a mask on and have fun. And that took me a while.
0:02:40And so even like a couple of days ago, I listened to an entire... No, I finished an episode
0:02:46of Upgrade. I listened to another episode of Upgrade. I finished the latest episode
0:02:51of Cortex and I was still working on it. And I was like, man, it's, first of all, it's
0:02:56nice, you know, to, to, to, to just do this. And you know, you, you, you're listening,
0:03:02you're doing two things at the same time, but also AirPods Pro, like that was like four
0:03:08hours of, of just listening to audio and they were totally fine. Podcast, we, we just talked
0:03:13about blogging in the pre-show for Connected Pro members, but I guess we should also appreciate
0:03:20podcasting as, you know, especially the kind of podcasting where you can listen to and
0:03:26sign up everywhere on any platform you want. I guess this is appreciation time for RSS
0:03:32feeds today.
0:03:33They're holding the whole place together. You may notice that we are without Myke Hurley
0:03:38this week, Myke Nadina.
0:03:40Oh yeah, that guy.
0:03:41You just admitted to listening to four hours of his podcast.
0:03:45Yeah, yeah.
0:03:46He and Adina are moving this week,
0:03:49so we gave him the week off so he could focus on that.
0:03:52So I would say maybe on Twitter,
0:03:55send him a tweet with the box emoji in it.
0:03:58Or, yeah, no, no, the box emoji is fine, yeah.
0:04:02Do you think Myke listened to us?
0:04:04I just spoke about listening to Myke for many, many hours.
0:04:07Do you think he listens to us
0:04:09while he's doing the new house stuff?
0:04:11- I hope so. - Maybe.
0:04:12- I hope so.
0:04:13- You would think.
0:04:15- I mean, we just had an NPU episode about Ventura,
0:04:18so maybe he's listening to me and David talk about that.
0:04:20- All right, so we have proper follow-up, I think, Steven.
0:04:24- We do. - Okay.
0:04:26And the first follow-up item is by courtesy of MacRumors,
0:04:31who just a few days ago received what I believe
0:04:34has to be one of the shortest statements
0:04:37that Apple PR ever sent out.
0:04:40I don't remember, did we cover on last week's episode
0:04:43of Connected the gambling ads on the App Store?
0:04:45I think we did.
0:04:46- I think we-- - We spoke about the,
0:04:49briefly maybe?
0:04:50- I think we did.
0:04:51I'm trying to look through our notes from last week.
0:04:53- Yeah, well, anyway, I think we spoke about the
0:04:57new ad slots. - Yes, we did.
0:04:58- Yeah, because, again, I'm so confused
0:05:01because I know that Myke and Jason
0:05:02also covered the topic on upgrades.
0:05:04I was like, wait, did I hear these on upgrade
0:05:06or did I also speak about this?
0:05:08But yes, we spoke about the new ad slots on the App Store
0:05:12on the Today page and on the Product pages,
0:05:14more specifically about how so many of those Product pages,
0:05:18the first result in the You Might Also Like section
0:05:22was an ad typically for gambling apps, for online casinos,
0:05:27but also adult live chats and psychic apps,
0:05:33all kinds of questionable utilities from the App Store.
0:05:37A few days ago Apple sent a statement to MacRumors, congrats Joe Rossignol for getting the statement
0:05:44from Apple PR, saying "We have paused ads related to gambling and a few other categories
0:05:51on App Store product pages."
0:05:52Wow.
0:05:53That's the statement.
0:05:55We have paused the ads related to gambling and a few other categories.
0:06:00So yeah, that took Apple, well I guess first of all kudos to Apple for doing this in less
0:06:06than 24 hours. What's going to happen next? We have no idea at the moment, I think.
0:06:12It's unknown. I mean, are they going to backtrack on this? What is it going to look like? On
0:06:18the newest episode of the talk show, episode 361, you joined Jon Gruber and y'all talked
0:06:24about this for a while and the different, different paths Apple could take to, to walk
0:06:31this back? Like do they remove some of those ad types like in the you might
0:06:35like section? Are they just going to have rules around what isn't allowed? Right?
0:06:42What types of ads? That seems like a slippery slope to me. Like how do you... I
0:06:47mean there's so much about the App Store rules that are slippery slope but...
0:06:50Exactly. I just I just don't know what that what that looks like. I mean I'm glad
0:06:55they paused it and I agree with you. It's good they did it quickly. Maybe they were
0:06:58surprised by it. I kind of think they probably were but they shouldn't have been that that's
0:07:04really my concern. Like if this surprised Apple about the types of ads that won all
0:07:09those bids and got all those ad spots, they're surprised by the type of application developers
0:07:14who would do that type of companies that would would have that kind of money to throw around,
0:07:19then they clearly are in over their heads when it comes to any meaningful advertising
0:07:24product. And hopefully this is a wake up call to those folks.
0:07:27Yeah, it seems so strange to have this tension within the same company.
0:07:35The same company is effectively trying to have it both ways. They're trying to say,
0:07:40"Well, we think the modern style of advertising on the web is not great, and that's why we're
0:07:49going to offer users tools to directly limit that kind of personally identifiable advertising,
0:07:57because those ads are creepy, they're not great, we don't think they make for a good experience.
0:08:02Which I agree with, and that approach from a technological perspective and ethical perspective
0:08:09seems to be directly aligned with Apple's interests and the sort of image that they want to present of
0:08:15the company. But at the same time, the same company, when it comes to growing services revenue on the
0:08:22apps or they're like, "Well, but what if these ads... No, no, no, these ads are good. They're
0:08:27not like the creepy ads on the web. These are the better ads." And I just feel like
0:08:33maybe it wouldn't be nicer to just say, "You know, no ads at all." There's really no good
0:08:40because if you allow more relevant ads, that's the problem. And it's kind of an ironic problem
0:08:49to have. Because if you allow more personalized and relevant ads on the App Store, it's very
0:08:56likely that unless you are really into gambling and adult live chats and whatever, you're
0:09:03not going to see those types of shady ads. You're going to see actually relevant ads.
0:09:10So for example, if I open Overcast, maybe I will see an ad for a competing podcast client.
0:09:15Or if I open a text editor, I will see something about automation, because I'm that kind of
0:09:20user.
0:09:21But if you do that, then you run into the problem of people saying, well, you're going
0:09:27to limit relevant ads on the web because they don't benefit you, but on the App Store you're
0:09:33going to allow them.
0:09:35So Apple is like, well, OK, what if we just don't make the ads relevant, so our message
0:09:41is consistent.
0:09:43But in return, those ads suck, and they're not relevant to you at all.
0:09:48And we're just going to leave them open to companies outbidding each other, and therefore
0:09:52the company with the most money is going to be the company with all the ad slots displayed
0:09:57to users on the App Store.
0:09:58And that's not a great experience either, because those ads are not relevant, and all
0:10:03the companies with deep pockets are the shadiest companies around.
0:10:07Therefore, this is not exactly Apple-like either.
0:10:11So maybe the solution was to just say, you know what?
0:10:14No ads.
0:10:15We're just, we're going to go and we're going to try and find ways to make money in other
0:10:20ways.
0:10:21And ultimately, I just have to agree with Myke, with something he said last week on
0:10:25the show and something he said on the upgrade.
0:10:29Why is this necessary?
0:10:31Like was this really necessary?
0:10:33I mean, I get it that you're trying to show Wall Street the message of like, well, no,
0:10:37Our services revenue is still growing in places,
0:10:41even though it's actually declining
0:10:43on a year-over-year basis.
0:10:44But still, like I get the impetus to do this,
0:10:48but the final product, I mean, come on, just look at it.
0:10:52It's terrible.
0:10:53- It's really disappointing to see them go down this road
0:10:56and argue with you about the tension
0:11:01that is within Apple over this.
0:11:02And I'm sure there are lots of people at Apple
0:11:04who would agree with us,
0:11:05who really hate the fact that this is going on.
0:11:08- I think so.
0:11:09- I'm positive and I get that.
0:11:12And I hope that they find some sort of middle ground
0:11:15that everybody's comfortable with.
0:11:17I mean, for me, I don't love ads in the app store.
0:11:20I'd rather they not be there.
0:11:22But for me, the one that's the most egregious
0:11:26are ads at the bottom of the developer's product page
0:11:29under the other apps you may like.
0:11:31I mean, that algorithm of the native suggestions
0:11:34already pretty bad. But having an ad there feels especially
0:11:38gross, because that's the one little sliver of the App Store
0:11:41that a that a that app developer has to to showcase their work.
0:11:47And having an ad on that from someone else that they don't get
0:11:50any money from just seems seems wrong to me, regardless of
0:11:54Apple size or what we may feel about them. It just seems plain
0:11:58wrong. Yeah, let's switch gears a little bit. I want to tell you
0:12:01about the Apple Watch Ultra Trail Loop Band.
0:12:06- Okay.
0:12:07- I picked up my Apple Watch Ultra
0:12:10with the standard Alpine band,
0:12:13which is like the bright orange one
0:12:14with a little like S hook in it to clasp.
0:12:19And it was really comfortable,
0:12:21but I found myself kind of in between sizes.
0:12:24And also the bright orange was just,
0:12:26it's a lot to contend with every day.
0:12:28Sometimes it's great.
0:12:29Other times it's just, it's just too much.
0:12:33And so I've picked up the White Ocean Band,
0:12:35which I like a lot,
0:12:37but I've wanted to try the Trail Loop as well,
0:12:40especially for sleep tracking,
0:12:43because the Ocean Band being like a rubbery band,
0:12:48sometimes it gets hot, you know, if you're sleeping
0:12:50or like, you know, sometimes it's comfortable
0:12:52when you go to bed, but it's like too tight or too loose
0:12:55when you wake up.
0:12:57And so I, I just happened to be perusing the Apple store app
0:13:02for something else.
0:13:05I was like, oh, I wonder if that band's in stock
0:13:06at my local store and sure enough it was.
0:13:08And so I picked up one,
0:13:10the black and gray with the orange tab.
0:13:13- Oh, that looks good.
0:13:14- They have a couple of different colors.
0:13:15They got yellow beige.
0:13:17Nothing makes me want to buy something more
0:13:18except having beige in the name.
0:13:20And then there's blue and gray.
0:13:22And then there's the black and gray.
0:13:23And like a bunch of the other bands that are fabric-y,
0:13:27that one side of the band is one color
0:13:29and the other kind of rail, if you will,
0:13:31the other side is a different color.
0:13:33But I don't mind it so much on this
0:13:34because the black and gray is really pretty similar.
0:13:37- Yeah, the black and gray one looks fantastic.
0:13:40And what's the name of the little orange thing?
0:13:43Like the pool, what's it called?
0:13:46- Yeah, I forget what it's in the literature.
0:13:48Basically it's a pool tab.
0:13:50So you can like-- - Yeah, pool tab.
0:13:51- Yeah.
0:13:52So what's interesting about this, unlike the
0:13:55the other fabric bands, the what is it?
0:14:00The Sport Loop?
0:14:01I'm trying to find the official name.
0:14:03Sport Loop.
0:14:04Sport band.
0:14:06Sport Loop.
0:14:07Yes.
0:14:08Sport Loop.
0:14:08So the Sport Loop,
0:14:11the way it's supposed to work is it doubles over.
0:14:15So if your watch is on your left hand
0:14:19and you're looking down at it,
0:14:20the excess band would be towards you
0:14:25And then the tab is pointed away from you,
0:14:27like around the outside of your wrist, if that makes sense.
0:14:30And this one, Apple's directions have it opposite.
0:14:33So the tab faces you.
0:14:35And I think the reason that is there is like maybe
0:14:38so it's less likely to get snagged on something.
0:14:42Maybe when you know you're doing extreme things.
0:14:44But I found it weird because I've worn a sport loop
0:14:47on my Series 7, again for sleep tracking.
0:14:52And it was like very strange that this one went the other way.
0:14:55And I also just didn't like the tab facing me.
0:14:57I kind of liked it on the outside a little bit more.
0:15:00And so I switched it around from what Apple's directions say, and it's totally
0:15:04fine.
0:15:04It totally works either direction.
0:15:05And I got to say it is super comfortable.
0:15:08It is thinner than the sport loop.
0:15:11Like it's not really, you know, the sport is kind of like a woven feel.
0:15:15This is not that this is way thinner than a sport loop way lighter weight.
0:15:21And I think it's really comfortable.
0:15:22Of course you have the fine grain control of just Velcro to put it wherever you
0:15:25want it, but it is, it's really soft.
0:15:29And I think maybe even it's, it's got a little bit of a stretch to it too.
0:15:33It's really nice.
0:15:34I've been, uh, it's only been a few days, but I've been really happy with it so far.
0:15:38I really like the look of this and it should, but hold, no, this is not going
0:15:43to be compatible with my Apple watch.
0:15:45Is it most of these are compatibility, 44, 45 and 49 millimeter.
0:15:50Alright, okay, so I can use it.
0:15:54Hmm.
0:15:55Yeah, man.
0:15:56This looks really nice.
0:15:57I never liked the sport loops.
0:15:58I have one of those beige and yellow sport loops, I think.
0:16:03Not really a fan of the beige also, because it gets super dirty super quickly, and you'll
0:16:08always end up washing the thing, which I just don't like the look.
0:16:13But this new one with that little orange detail, it looks really nice.
0:16:17Yeah, I mean at the end of the day, it's still a fabric strap
0:16:20So, you know the sport loop is kind of like the sweatpants of the Apple watch
0:16:24Like this is a little bit that too. I think it's a little bit nicer looking than the sport loop
0:16:30But if I were gonna and I wear this to like a nice meeting, you know
0:16:33I may dress it up a little bit, but it's super comfortable
0:16:36And I think if I think it will hold up better because it's that darker color
0:16:40Even the orange Alpine loop they've been pictures
0:16:44Online and like David Sparks has had it where it looks really dirty because it's a brighter lighter color and that's inevitable with something
0:16:51Light where like your watch is just gonna get dirty, right?
0:16:54You can't you can't really avoid that right having a darker band really helps with that
0:16:59And I think that it would look better over time because of it this episode of connected is brought to you by
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0:18:42the show. There was a story last week about iCloud.com. A website, honestly,
0:18:49Federico, that I forget exists all the time.
0:18:52Well, yeah, it's still out there. And there's even a beta version of it now.
0:18:57So yeah, that's what I want to talk to you about. So beta.icloud.com is
0:19:03now live and it has a lot of the features that iCloud.com has had for a while. I want
0:19:09to talk through those in a minute. I gotta say I really like this design. Me too and
0:19:15like I was thinking about it, I was taking a look at the screenshots that we had on the
0:19:19site and I was like, "This reminds me of something and I can't quite put my finger on it, but
0:19:23what is it?" And I realized today, "Oh, this is like the iPad home screen, but on the web
0:19:30You have your medium sized widgets and the Excel widgets, and it's like, what if iCalc.com
0:19:36was your personal dashboard and you had, Apple calls them tiles I believe, but these are
0:19:42widgets.
0:19:45And I actually think they even have the same features and look of the iPadOS widget.
0:19:53Actually I may be wrong there because I don't think that a Notes Excel widget exists on
0:19:58on iPadOS, on the home screen.
0:20:00It does on iCloud.com.
0:20:02So you have a really nice rectangular notes widget
0:20:05that shows you your recently edited notes in two columns,
0:20:09which is very nice.
0:20:10But yeah, this feels like having an iPad home screen
0:20:13on the web that you can customize and add
0:20:15all the little modules that you want,
0:20:17choosing from the compatible web versions of iCloud apps.
0:20:22That's, I think it looks really nice.
0:20:24- There's an element here where you can rearrange
0:20:26the sections of it or hide things you don't use.
0:20:30And when you go into that mode,
0:20:31all the little widgets like enter jiggle mode,
0:20:34like they do on the iPhone.
0:20:35I can just imagine the meeting where some manager
0:20:38just tells some poor web developer,
0:20:40"Okay, when they edit the widgets, they're gonna do this."
0:20:43And he whips his phone out,
0:20:44like puts his phone in jiggle mode.
0:20:46But it just, it made me laugh.
0:20:47I was like, "Oh, this little bit of whimsy
0:20:49is now carried onto iCloud."
0:20:51And as someone pointed out in the Discord,
0:20:54Apple has used beta.icloud.com before,
0:20:57'cause iCloud's been through a couple of redesigns.
0:20:59- Yeah, yeah.
0:21:00- iCloud launched what, with iOS 5?
0:21:03- Yes. - I think that's right.
0:21:04- I think you're right.
0:21:04- Yeah, so it was like linen and dark and moody
0:21:07for a long time, and then it's changed
0:21:09as Apple's designs have changed.
0:21:11- I remember when they rolled out,
0:21:13that's right, the beta website has been around for a while.
0:21:18I remember when they rolled out the metallic identity
0:21:24for icot.com and they had that shiny sort of brushed metal logo.
0:21:29I'm not kidding. They had that sort of metallic logo and the logo had a,
0:21:34like a light reflection on it.
0:21:37And depending on like how you moved your cursor,
0:21:41the reflection would move or something. Do you remember this?
0:21:45Then they had that, that light effect on the steel cloud in the icot.com
0:21:51steel cloud in the iCalc logo and it was actually quite nice looking. And then they did the
0:21:57thing a couple of years after that with the moving blobs of color, I think. Anyway, it's
0:22:05been through various, you know, yes, thank you, Zach, for posting. That's the logo that
0:22:11I meant on the Discord. They've been through various visual identities. This new one has
0:22:18this bubble wallpaper, very, I would say,
0:22:22tiger-y looking as a wallpaper, right Steven?
0:22:26Like those blue bubbles in the background,
0:22:30kind of retro as a look.
0:22:32- Yeah, I think it looks good.
0:22:33- I think it's a very nice design with all the modules
0:22:36serving as both shortcuts to jump into those full-on web apps,
0:22:41but also as a preview tool for the kind of content
0:22:46that you will find in there.
0:22:47I think this is -- obviously this is going to be super nice to have -- well, maybe not
0:22:53super nice, but nice to have for folks who have a Windows machine, right? And you just
0:22:58want to check on your -- or maybe you just have a Windows machine at work and you want
0:23:02to check on your iCloud stuff at work. Now, it would still be preferable to -- you
0:23:08know, ideally, Apple would make Windows versions of everything. There would be a Windows app
0:23:14reminders, a Windows app for mail.
0:23:17Like, that's never going to happen, right?
0:23:19Apple's--
0:23:20I don't think so.
0:23:20--competitive advantage via--
0:23:22yeah, their competitive advantage
0:23:24is to have native apps on their own platform for everything.
0:23:28Still, this is a nice compromise.
0:23:29Apple has been working more closely with Microsoft.
0:23:33Just three weeks ago, I believe, they
0:23:36announced Apple Music for Xbox and Windows,
0:23:40as well as the iCloud Photos integration.
0:23:42So yeah, they've been doing things.
0:23:44- Yeah, I'd like to see more of it.
0:23:45I mean, they seem more happy to extend their services
0:23:50to other platforms when it's content services.
0:23:55And I think they view iCloud differently than that.
0:23:57I think they think about iCloud as almost an extension
0:24:01of their OSs, which means they sell hardware.
0:24:04Which is a bummer, but I guess they don't want to reward
0:24:06people who have an iPhone and a PC, which is dumb.
0:24:10I mean, iCloud for Windows is very basic,
0:24:12but I would like to see those other services make it over
0:24:15there, those other applications to make it over there.
0:24:17But at least they are all on the website.
0:24:20And that's been true for a long time, where
0:24:22Photos and iCloud Drive and Notes and Calendar and Mail
0:24:27and Reminders, all that stuff, you can get to on the iCloud
0:24:30website.
0:24:32Now in the beta, they have also--
0:24:34this may have been there in the production one,
0:24:36but at least it's more prominent now.
0:24:38You can get to home kit secure video.
0:24:41You can get to where you set up your custom email domains
0:24:43or learn about private relay, you know,
0:24:45kind of showing you more of those iCloud plus features
0:24:49that they rolled out in the last couple of years.
0:24:52And you can also manage your storage.
0:24:53And that UI looks, you know, very similar
0:24:55to what you have on the iPhone, iPad, and Mac,
0:24:58where you can see the breakdown of,
0:25:00okay, I got photos taking up this much space,
0:25:02et cetera, et cetera.
0:25:03If you're like me and you're an iCloud family,
0:25:05I can see how much space I take up
0:25:06versus how much my family takes up.
0:25:09And you can also do some data recovery on iCloud.com.
0:25:14It's very ham-fisted.
0:25:17So like you can back up your entire contacts database,
0:25:20but it doesn't tell you like what's in it.
0:25:23It just tells you like the date and time of that backup,
0:25:26and you can download it and restore it.
0:25:28Same thing with calendars and your Safari data,
0:25:33but you don't have data recovery
0:25:36for a bunch of the other things that now incorporate iCloud.
0:25:40And I'd like to see Apple do more of that.
0:25:44I mean, right now it's kind of handled like in Notes,
0:25:45you have, what is it?
0:25:4630 day trash in Notes, same thing in Photos.
0:25:50- Yeah.
0:25:51- So those are app centric right now.
0:25:53And I'd like to see Apple bring more of that
0:25:56to these recovery tools.
0:25:58So you can feel more confident
0:26:00in having your data accessible to you
0:26:02in case something terrible happens.
0:26:05- Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
0:26:06Anyway, I really like the look of this.
0:26:10It's still kinda the one thing I forgot to mention.
0:26:13The performance of this web app is still not fantastic.
0:26:18It's still kinda slow and clunky to use.
0:26:22I don't know, I feel like I'm now used to web apps
0:26:26that are super snappy to use,
0:26:28like switching between even complex projects,
0:26:30like in things like Notion, for example,
0:26:33or in the web client for Kraft,
0:26:35like switching between different things
0:26:37and different sections and pages is usually snappy.
0:26:40Here, it feels like there's a person on the other hand
0:26:43just slowly cranking away the other web app
0:26:46that you wanna open, like, "Hey, let me open that for you."
0:26:49And it's like, it takes you five seconds
0:26:51to move between places.
0:26:53So I don't know.
0:26:54Still not fantastic, but it looks nice
0:26:59and it's better than nothing, I guess,
0:27:01which is not high praise, but still, I'll take it.
0:27:04- Yeah, so I just loaded it up.
0:27:06It is slow.
0:27:07That's been true forever.
0:27:08I mean, I remember when they announced MobileMe,
0:27:10Phil Schiller was like,
0:27:11"We built a website that feels like an app
0:27:13"and that's still the way they think about it."
0:27:15I loaded up notes, two things.
0:27:16My notebooks are in the wrong,
0:27:18or my folders are in the wrong order on the web,
0:27:20so I'm afraid to open notes on my computer
0:27:23and that sort be wrong.
0:27:24but it does sync the recently deleted.
0:27:26And so I can recover those from there,
0:27:28but I guess, you know, you have to go into notes
0:27:31and maybe they could just make that more clear around them.
0:27:34Also, I just want to read this to you.
0:27:36Notes are available here,
0:27:37being recently deleted, for 30 days.
0:27:40After that time, notes will be permanently deleted.
0:27:44This may take up to 40 days.
0:27:46So they don't even tell you how long
0:27:48you have to recover them.
0:27:50Why is there a 10-day discrepancy there?
0:27:53Who knows?
0:27:54I have no idea.
0:27:56Also, as Myke points out in Discord, excellent copywriting.
0:27:59It's just confusing, let alone kind of a bad thing.
0:28:02So yeah, so if you do use iCloud on the web,
0:28:04a lot of people may have a PC at work,
0:28:06but they want access to their stuff.
0:28:08That's a little bit better for you now, so that's good.
0:28:11Let me ask you,
0:28:11do you use the private relay thing on your devices?
0:28:15I do not.
0:28:17Yeah, me neither, okay.
0:28:18No.
0:28:19Because I remember that I tried it in beta
0:28:22and it kind of killed your internet speeds,
0:28:26then I think it has since been fixed.
0:28:30And I know a lot of people who use it.
0:28:32I just feel, I don't know,
0:28:33I just feel kind of weird about putting something
0:28:36in between me and my internet connection.
0:28:39Even though like I know plenty of folks
0:28:42who use one of those content blockers for ads, for example,
0:28:46that are actually like a VPN that is always on.
0:28:50Like I have a VPN and I use a VPN,
0:28:53but it's more of like an on-demand type of thing.
0:28:57Like when I wanna watch a TV show on HBO Max, for example.
0:29:00And we don't have that in Italy, that's when I use a VPN.
0:29:04But I know a lot of people who have these different kinds
0:29:07of VPNs, always enabled, they're actually ad blockers
0:29:10or DNS filtering systems, right?
0:29:13That are always enabled, always in between your device
0:29:17and your internet connection.
0:29:18And I don't know, I've had a couple of bad experiences
0:29:21with these things before, and like web pages,
0:29:24they stop working, or I don't know,
0:29:27you get like, sometimes, like I'm using my bank's website,
0:29:32for example, and it's not working right.
0:29:34So I always end up second guessing the thing
0:29:37that I just enabled in between myself
0:29:39and my internet connection at home,
0:29:42and I'm like, yeah, maybe that's the culprit,
0:29:44maybe I should disable it.
0:29:46- I wanna talk a little bit about the new mail app
0:29:48with you for the first time in a long time.
0:29:51Mail got a bunch of updates this year
0:29:54with remind me and follow up.
0:29:58And they have a feature if you say
0:30:01that you attach something and you forgot it,
0:30:03that is, hey, you forgot an attachment.
0:30:06One of them in particular though
0:30:07has really just been killing me.
0:30:09And it's the feature where you mention a recipient.
0:30:13So say like I write an email, say Federico and John, comma,
0:30:16I love app stories, but I only include your email and say,
0:30:20hey, it looks like you mentioned this other guy.
0:30:23Do you need to add a recipient?
0:30:25And as far as I can tell,
0:30:26there's no way to turn this feature on and off.
0:30:27You can turn off the remind me, but not this one.
0:30:31And it's done a thing to me over the last several days
0:30:36where the email address that's in my email signature,
0:30:41which I want to talk about in a second,
0:30:43that triggers the add a recipient error.
0:30:48So my email ends with my name
0:30:52and then my email address underneath it.
0:30:54And every time I send a message,
0:30:57actually not even every time,
0:30:58most of the times I send a message,
0:30:59I get this pop-up saying,
0:31:01"You may have missed a recipient.
0:31:03"You wanna add this person."
0:31:04And what it has pulled out is my own email address.
0:31:08This is just has blown my mind.
0:31:11This made it out the door.
0:31:12first of all, this is so dumb.
0:31:14Like, I don't understand.
0:31:16Like, and as you describe in your post,
0:31:19like the, what's even more ridiculous about it
0:31:22is that the system should know that's your signature
0:31:25because you saved it as a signature
0:31:28in the mail preferences.
0:31:30But I think you mentioned this before.
0:31:33Can you explain to me again
0:31:35why you like having your email address in your signature,
0:31:40even though people can see your email address
0:31:43from the from field?
0:31:46- So I do it for a couple of reasons.
0:31:47I tweeted a link to this article yesterday
0:31:50and a bunch of people were like,
0:31:51"You're an idiot for having your email."
0:31:52Okay, okay, whatever, here's why I do it.
0:31:54I do it for two reasons.
0:31:55One, in the context that I email people professionally,
0:31:59it's pretty common practice to have your contact information
0:32:03at the bottom of an email.
0:32:05So if someone needs to find something of yours,
0:32:08don't have to like go hit reply and like copy your message, your you know, your address or something
0:32:13just right there in the photo, right? It's very common in professional settings to do that. I
0:32:17don't put my phone number anything's my phone number is not relevant to hardly any of my work,
0:32:21but my email address is my title is for my relay email addresses, which is what I used in these
0:32:27screenshots, which are now also on the front page of Mac rumors, which is cool and kind of funny.
0:32:32Oh, wow.
0:32:32I haven't gotten any weird emails yet. So we'll see if that happens. The other
0:32:38reason is more for me and again it may not be for you but I have three email
0:32:42addresses I have my personal Gmail I have Hackit.fm which is like 512 pixels
0:32:47and any freelance I do that sort of thing and then I have my relay address
0:32:51which is what's used the most often and each of my signatures I have my email
0:32:56address in there I use it as a secondary check that I'm sending the right message
0:33:00from the right account because with three accounts it's pretty easy to mess
0:33:04that up and and mail makes it pretty easy you can there's a from menu that you can choose from
0:33:09but i like it is just like one last check that okay i'm sending this from the right place
0:33:14and again you might not care for those reasons but i do and uh this bug has me thinking maybe
0:33:21this isn't the way i should go and like it's wild to me that it doesn't ignore the signature
0:33:27you know the signature is just text right there's nothing special about the signature in apple mail
0:33:32In some email apps, it's like a thing, like a separate HTML entity or like its own kind
0:33:36of separate thing.
0:33:38Mail just slaps it in the message, right?
0:33:40So it's just text.
0:33:41Like you can't pattern match what's in my signature settings with what's in the message.
0:33:47Can you just ignore my own email addresses in the recipient thing?
0:33:52And why can't I turn this feature off?
0:33:53Now I want to leave it on because I think it's a useful feature.
0:33:56But if it triggers every time I send an email to anybody, you know, it's not doing very
0:34:01much good.
0:34:02On the topic of mail, something that I noticed that I also dislike, and I think it's more
0:34:07of a... not a bug, more of a decision, I think.
0:34:11I really like the "Remind Me Later" feature to set off emails for later so that you can
0:34:18snooze them, basically, and they appear at a later date and time.
0:34:22It's really nice.
0:34:23But the thing I discovered that I think are the ones that John mentioned in his Mac OS
0:34:28Ventura Review, is that "remind me later" does not work for SaneBox folders or any other
0:34:36mailbox that is not the inbox.
0:34:38Yeah, ridiculous.
0:34:40It's ridiculous because I'm a longtime user of the SaneLater and the SaneNews folders,
0:34:49and then I also have a custom folder that I call the SaneBetas, where all my TestFlight
0:34:55betas go into.
0:34:57And these are very nice ways to sort of filter your and automatically organize your incoming
0:35:04email based on different criteria.
0:35:07And there are so many times where there's a newsletter in the same news folder or an
0:35:14email from a random reader that I don't want to promote to the full-on inbox, but I still
0:35:23want to make sure that I don't forget about it for later.
0:35:27you just don't have the option in those folders.
0:35:30You just, the button disappears.
0:35:33And I think it's wrong and I don't understand why.
0:35:36The way this feature should work,
0:35:38take this message from any folder, right?
0:35:42And let me set up a reminder.
0:35:45And when the message is quote unquote "due" again,
0:35:49put it again at the top of that folder.
0:35:52Like, I don't know if this is a limitation
0:35:56of how Gmail integration works with Apple platforms,
0:36:01because technically these are labels,
0:36:04but they show up as folders in Apple Mail.
0:36:08I don't know if that's the issue here,
0:36:10but what I know is that I shouldn't be forced
0:36:15to keep everything in my inbox
0:36:18if I wanna use the remind me later feature.
0:36:20It should work for any folder or label,
0:36:23and surface again at a later date and time at the top of that folder.
0:36:28And right now it doesn't.
0:36:30And it's been like this for the whole summer,
0:36:32which makes me think this is a conscious, deliberate decision on Apple's part.
0:36:36And I think it's wrong.
0:36:38Yeah, I do too. I think that feature should be available in any mailbox.
0:36:42The other kind of related feature to that is the follow-up feature.
0:36:47So the setting says "Mail will remind you about messages that haven't received responses."
0:36:51So I emailed John about a sponsorship,
0:36:54but he doesn't email me back.
0:36:55And it like pops up,
0:36:56you get a little follow-up badge next to it.
0:36:59I cannot understand the logic that Mel uses
0:37:01to choose what should be followed up on.
0:37:03What it chooses for me to know about
0:37:08just doesn't make any sense.
0:37:11- Yeah, I never, no, I think I had it work once
0:37:16a few weeks ago and it was totally random.
0:37:18And I thought, why are you doing this?
0:37:20like it was probably incorrect or something
0:37:23and it never did it again.
0:37:25That also feels like something where,
0:37:29like maybe it would have been preferable
0:37:31to have some kind of manual check.
0:37:34Like maybe the way that I would have done it
0:37:36is don't try and be too clever about it yourself,
0:37:39but maybe put in a little checkbox or something,
0:37:42like a little indicator
0:37:43when you're composing a message to someone
0:37:46where you can manually say,
0:37:48hey, I'm gonna send this message now.
0:37:50But if I don't hear back in a few days, again, let me choose.
0:37:55Let me pick a date and time.
0:37:56If I don't hear back, show me this follow-up reminder.
0:37:59Maybe like the manual approach would have been so much easier
0:38:03and it would have saved you a lot of machine learning
0:38:07operations that are happening who knows where on your phone.
0:38:11Like let me have a manual check to say, hey,
0:38:14if I don't hear back, remind me, please.
0:38:17Like follow-up reminder, yes.
0:38:19Otherwise, no, just send this email out into the void
0:38:24and who knows what's gonna happen.
0:38:26But I would have preferred the manual option, I think.
0:38:31- Me too, that would be an awesome setting.
0:38:34As it is, I've turned it off because,
0:38:36it doesn't do what I expect it to do.
0:38:39And it's the only, as far as I can tell,
0:38:42it's the only of these new features that have any settings.
0:38:45Like the others, I can't find a way to turn
0:38:48to turn them off. Maybe I've just missed them going through the settings, but
0:38:52strange. And again, I'm so glad Mail is getting
0:38:56work. I just hope that they continue to push this, because there's other features
0:39:00that I would like to see, like snoozing, and there are
0:39:04some additional controls I would want over these new things.
0:39:08Let me ask you a question. Mail, Safari,
0:39:12and Reminders. You can only keep two
0:39:16of these three apps, and they're gonna receive annual attention and updates from Apple.
0:39:22Which ones do you pick?
0:39:25I would keep Mail and Safari, probably.
0:39:28Mail and Safari.
0:39:29Because I feel like it's easier to find another task manager.
0:39:31Interesting. Well, that's true.
0:39:34I don't know.
0:39:35I would probably keep Safari and Reminders, I think.
0:39:41Because it's equally easy to find another email client.
0:39:44Yeah, I mean, on the Mac, yes. I mean, you got MimeStream, which is a really good alternative.
0:39:51That's a good question. I like that. It's like, if you go on a desert island, you know,
0:39:57you'll have three apps with you the rest of your life. What do you use?
0:39:59Oh, well, that's a bigger question, though. Like, if you go on a desert island, well,
0:40:04that's also a great question. I want to play this game. So on a desert island, three apps
0:40:08for the rest of your life. I assume you have an internet connection on the desert island.
0:40:13I think so, which does kind of make the hypothetical to kind of dumb, because you could just like
0:40:17text somebody where you are, but we'll play along.
0:40:21Well obviously music. I would have said Marvis, but as it stands now, the music app is the
0:40:27only one that shows you lyrics, so I'm gonna go with that. Music. Safari, because you know,
0:40:34worst case scenario, you're always gonna have a web browser.
0:40:37Yes.
0:40:38to use web versions of other things. Music Safari. The third one is interesting, because
0:40:45like, I could say shortcuts, but what good is shortcuts if you don't have other apps
0:40:50to automate? Right. I mean, time tracking doesn't make much sense because you're literally
0:40:55on a desert island for the rest of your life. I spent six hours this week building shelter,
0:41:00Two hours starting fire.
0:41:06One hour fighting wild animals and trying to survive.
0:41:10Ahh.
0:41:12Music, safari.
0:41:14Oh, yeah.
0:41:16Well, no.
0:41:18I would say camera because yeah, you're gonna take pictures, but I mean, after a while,
0:41:22it's certainly gonna be the same island over and over.
0:41:25I think it's some sort of like a survival app.
0:41:28I don't know, maybe there's an app that tells you like what kind of food, what kind of plants you can eat and what kind of plants you can't eat.
0:41:34But you still have a web browser.
0:41:35Oh, that's true.
0:41:36So keep that in mind, like that web browser accounts for all of that plus YouTube plus Netflix plus, you know, the web version of Discord.
0:41:46Like you can communicate with people.
0:41:48It counts as an email client because you can use Gmail on the web.
0:41:51So what is something that is like not a web, not a web browser.
0:41:57and make sense on a desert island?
0:42:00Hmm.
0:42:02Huh.
0:42:03Maybe books?
0:42:03Yes.
0:42:05Yeah. Uh, yes. Books. You're gonna have something to read.
0:42:10You don't have web versions of Apple Books and Kindle that work in Safari, I think?
0:42:16Yeah, I don't think.
0:42:17I think the important question that you didn't ask was, like,
0:42:21what's the device that you have on the desert island? Is it iPhone, iPad, Mac, or PC?
0:42:26Yeah, I kind of assumed iPhone. Like it was just in your pocket when the plane crashed.
0:42:29iPhone for the rest of your life with just three apps on it.
0:42:33Yeah. And with an internet connection.
0:42:35Of course.
0:42:35Okay. Music Safari books.
0:42:38Sounds good to me.
0:42:39Yeah, because I mean, yeah, sounds good to me because you can have reading lists for articles.
0:42:44You're going to miss iMessage.
0:42:45Yeah.
0:42:46Still, you can use Twitter if it's still around and you can use other web clients, I guess.
0:42:53You can use FaceTime on the web.
0:42:55Can you just face them on the web? Yeah, Safari, Books, Music. Yeah, okay.
0:43:03I like it. Sarva said, "Door Dash, Task Rabbit."
0:43:07No, they don't deliver to the desert island.
0:43:11That's right, yeah. Please order some water from Walgreens and a life raft. Can you come
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0:45:19I don't want to relitigate our choices, but some real time follow-up.
0:45:23Amazon does have a Kindle web app, but we can't, we can't go back to the,
0:45:26we are off the desert island now. Okay. Okay. Okay.
0:45:29Have you played with shared iCloud photo libraries yet? Oh no, not,
0:45:34not at all.
0:45:35I think this is the kind of feature that if I enable it and something goes
0:45:39wrong, Sylvia is going to hate. I am not touching this for now.
0:45:44I leave that to you and Jon and other more courageous people than me to test.
0:45:52But tell me about it.
0:45:54So I have been playing with it and I've got some early thoughts about it.
0:45:59I think a lot of it is really good and well thought out.
0:46:03And I think in particular the way you get photos into the shared library is pretty good.
0:46:10And so you set it up kind of like a shared note or shared reminder, right, you select
0:46:15to you want to have access to it and they get a link, I just used iMessage and iMessaged
0:46:20Mary is like, hey, click that link on your phone.
0:46:23And then they're in it.
0:46:25And that's the setup is very fast.
0:46:27And you know, basically everyone starting this process is probably merging more than
0:46:33one library.
0:46:34So like in my case, my wife and I both have really big libraries and there's a lot of
0:46:38overlap is gonna take me a long time to sort all that out. But photos has a lot of really
0:46:44cool tools to help populate the shared library. Pretty, pretty easily, you can of course,
0:46:51manually move them. So you can select a bunch of photos and right click on the Mac or in
0:46:55the little more menu on iOS and iPad OS and just say, move to shared library. And it's
0:47:00not like downloading and re uploading them. If they're coming from you, it's just very
0:47:05quick. And then they're in the shared library and the other person or people can see them.
0:47:10It also has sharing suggestions, which I think is probably the best way to get started where
0:47:15photos will look at who's in the photo, photos of people that you've told it. So like in
0:47:23the in the mail, in the mail, in the Mac settings, you can just add people and say I want suggestions
0:47:28based on this. So if I put Federica, if I put you in there, any photos that it sees
0:47:32of view, it's going to suggest to me in a new section of photos called sharing suggestions,
0:47:38that hey, there are these 400 pictures of Federico, you know, do you want to move on
0:47:41to the shared library, and you can review all of them and like, you know, maybe I want
0:47:44to uncheck some of them, maybe some of them I don't want in the shared library for whatever
0:47:48reason, pretty straightforward. And I think you could do a lot of bulk moving that way
0:47:53pretty quickly, especially if you've already kind of gone through your photo library and
0:47:58done all the faces stuff, which I've done a lot of over the years. You can also have the camera app
0:48:04save shots right into the shared library. So if you're on a trip and you say, okay, until we get
0:48:11home, we're just going to have this on and everything we take is going to end up in the
0:48:14shared library, you know, fantastic for family vacations and that sort of thing. You can have
0:48:19it suggest things based on participants that are nearby. So like if you and Sylvia are at the beach
0:48:26and you're both taking pictures and you haven't told it explicitly that you want to share things,
0:48:30well after a little while the sharing suggestions will say, "oh hey, you all were together, you know,
0:48:35for this moment, you know, in the photos language, do you want to add these to the shared library?"
0:48:41And then you can automatically have it add photos and videos taken at home, which I think is also
0:48:46pretty good, not for people like you or me who work from home necessarily, but say that you and
0:48:51your partner both work outside of the home, you know, if you're taking pictures at work they won't
0:48:55end up there. But if you're at home in the evening together, or whatever, those photos show up. So
0:49:00that all feels like a lot of vectors into this, that when you overlap a couple of them, I would
0:49:07imagine that once people are kind of used to how this works, that you probably won't need much
0:49:11manual sharing in the future, maybe when you first set it up, but I could see down the road. Okay,
0:49:17like basically, this just kind of works the way I expect it to. And I think all that's
0:49:20honestly pretty good. Do you have anything that like jumps out at you there that maybe you would like to see
0:49:26some other factors there or do you feel like they've kind of covered the main ones for how you would use this?
0:49:31Yeah, I think that covers all the all the
0:49:35different sort of scenarios in which I would like to share a photo with someone like I think that's yeah, I think that I
0:49:41cannot think of other
0:49:43conditions or like filters for that. So yeah, that seems that sounds pretty good actually. I think they've also done a good job at
0:49:50helping you understand where a photo lives. And so, and all the versions of photos, you can select my library,
0:49:58shared library or combined so you can see both your local library and the shared one together. For me, at least on the Mac, and even iOS, that's basically an instant toggle. It's not like it has to like quit and like reload the library just like basically filters it very quickly. That's pretty great. I think that's a really nice way, especially in the beginning, if you're doing like bulk moving,
0:50:20leave the view on just my library. And then when you move them to the shared when they
0:50:25disappear, right, because now they're in the the view you're not looking at. And I think
0:50:30that's going to be a nice way as I you know, continue to sort through these over the coming
0:50:33months to kind of keep tabs on what I've moved and what I haven't. photos in the shared library
0:50:40pick up a little icon. So it's similar to like the iCloud families like kind of two
0:50:44little figures, one's kind of shorter than the other up in the corner, very
0:50:49similar to how they'll show like if it's a live photo or it's a video, you know,
0:50:52you kind of get that little, I guess it's like a status icon or like a attribute
0:50:57icon, very similar. So you can very quickly see at a glance and you can turn
0:51:02that off if you don't want to see it. I've left it on because it's very
0:51:04minimal. It's not, you know, impacting my view of the photo in any way. And you
0:51:10can or I guess one thing you need to know is about storage. So okay, it counts
0:51:17against the iCloud storage space of the person who initiated the shared photo
0:51:21library. So in my case I initiated it, I shared it with Mary. So over time my
0:51:27iCloud data usage will go up as she moves a lot of photos from her library
0:51:32into the shared one. Now we're an iCloud family so it's kind of like rearranging
0:51:38water in the same bucket, like it doesn't matter to us, because we're, you know, under
0:51:41the threshold of our account.
0:51:43But if you, you know, have issues with iCloud storage space, and you want to adopt this,
0:51:49just know that you're going to be using more space.
0:51:51And so you may end up needing to bump up a tier, but maybe the other person can bump
0:51:55down.
0:51:56It's just something to consider, right, especially if you have really large photo libraries.
0:52:01For us, we're on the two terabyte iCloud plan.
0:52:04And we have about 1.2 terabytes of data.
0:52:06And so I'm not worried about about, you know, running out of room.
0:52:11But one thing I do need to keep an eye on, especially on my laptop is local disk space,
0:52:16because I have photos set to download all originals.
0:52:19And again, as the shared library grows, I will have more of my local disk.
0:52:24Now I want that because I can back them up a time machine and backblaze.
0:52:28But again, something to be mindful of is just that your concept of the usage of that you
0:52:34you have in photos in terms of disk space and storage, that is going to change as you
0:52:40move forward with these with these settings.
0:52:44And so for us, my alcohol usage will go up, Mary's will go down, our disk usage on our
0:52:49computers is both going to go up because we're going to be merging two really big photo libraries.
0:52:54And so so something to keep an eye on, I think, interesting about the the storage counting
0:53:01against the surge of the person who initiates the sharing.
0:53:06Hmm.
0:53:07Yeah, I mean, if I'm going to do this with...
0:53:09How many people can you do it with?
0:53:11Is it just another person?
0:53:14I'm not sure.
0:53:15I think it's more than that.
0:53:16That you can share?
0:53:17But I know you can only be part of one at a time.
0:53:19So you couldn't have one with Sylvia.
0:53:21Oh yeah.
0:53:22And then another one with your mom.
0:53:23Right.
0:53:24Because that's what I was thinking.
0:53:25It doesn't have to be everyone in the family.
0:53:27So Mary and I share one, but the kids don't have access to it.
0:53:30Yeah, I can't find quickly how many people can be in it.
0:53:33Maybe the Discord can tell us.
0:53:35Yeah, because if I'm gonna do it,
0:53:37I think I'm gonna do it with Sylvia.
0:53:38We are part of the same family sharing setup
0:53:41on Apple platforms.
0:53:43So that should work pretty nicely.
0:53:46Basically what you and Mary are doing.
0:53:48I think maybe doing what you did and just moving up,
0:53:53like just a few photos initially,
0:53:56instead of like, I don't know, 15 years of photos,
0:53:59That's probably the right approach.
0:54:01Like, just take a few of the recent ones
0:54:03from, like, the past three months or something
0:54:05and see how well it works.
0:54:07And over time, you progressively start moving more and more
0:54:11things into it.
0:54:13That's probably the way to go.
0:54:14So I'm going to consider it.
0:54:16Have you used the control that you get in the camera app
0:54:22so that when you are on a vacation together or something,
0:54:25And you should see a button in the camera UI.
0:54:29And that photo is taken and immediately added
0:54:33to the shared library.
0:54:34Have you found that to be useful in practice?
0:54:37We were back from our vacation before this came out.
0:54:41But just in testing, it works great.
0:54:43I mean, I was just playing with it for the show.
0:54:45I turned it on and took a picture of my desk.
0:54:47It's like, oh, it showed up in the right library.
0:54:49I think that's going to be a really useful thing, though,
0:54:52because it's just like an ad hoc thing.
0:54:55because maybe we're together and we don't want that.
0:54:57I mean, we do, but maybe not everyone does.
0:54:59And so I think it's just about giving people
0:55:03the optionality to best fit their needs.
0:55:06As a real-time follow-up, I found it.
0:55:08You can be an iCloud shared photo library
0:55:11with five other people.
0:55:13So it's a total of six, six people.
0:55:18And they have some stuff in here about
0:55:21when you join a shared library,
0:55:24your photo library database is backed up and stored
0:55:27for six months.
0:55:28So if you have some sort of mishap,
0:55:30you can, I guess, somehow roll that back.
0:55:33I don't really know how that recovery works,
0:55:35but I'll put a document in the show notes.
0:55:37People can read about that.
0:55:39Where this falls down for me is in the organization
0:55:44of the shared library.
0:55:45So I use faces and places, and I don't use a lot of tags,
0:55:50but I got a handful of tags I'll use in my photo library.
0:55:53but the bulk of my organization takes place in albums.
0:55:57And that's like from, you know, the aperture
0:55:59and even iPhoto days where a lot of these other features
0:56:02weren't there yet.
0:56:04And so I've got a bunch of albums
0:56:06and the internal logic of what's an album and what's not
0:56:08is not perfect, right?
0:56:09I have like a vacations folder,
0:56:12but then I also have some albums
0:56:13that are like specific vacations.
0:56:14Like it's a bit messy,
0:56:15but it's just kind of been there for a long time.
0:56:18And in the shared photo library, there are no albums.
0:56:23You can't create them.
0:56:24You can't move an album into a shared photo library.
0:56:28You can move its contents
0:56:30and all the other metadata comes over.
0:56:32So faces, places, tags, ratings, all that stuff comes over,
0:56:36but you cannot make an album in the shared photo library.
0:56:39And that is a bummer for me
0:56:42because that's been my workflow for years and years.
0:56:45Now, Mary on the other hand has like three albums
0:56:47and like she just searches for everything.
0:56:49And I'm torn on thinking, did Apple does not get to this
0:56:54and maybe we'll get it next year?
0:56:58Or do they think albums aren't the way to go anymore
0:57:01and they think that the moments
0:57:04and all the other metadata is enough for most people?
0:57:07I don't know, but I wish there were albums
0:57:09in the shared photo library.
0:57:11Are you a big album user?
0:57:13What's your kind of organization?
0:57:14- I don't have any.
0:57:17I just keep everything in the, like I don't use albums.
0:57:21I just, when I want to find something, I use search
0:57:25and I search by person or by location or time.
0:57:30I have never used albums.
0:57:34- I mean, I think that's where I'm headed
0:57:35'cause I really want to use shared photo library.
0:57:38The thing that kind of bugs me about,
0:57:41maybe they'll fix this,
0:57:42this seems like a UI bug in the photos for Mac app,
0:57:46But if you move to the shared library,
0:57:49your albums still show up in the sidebar,
0:57:51but they're all grayed out.
0:57:53It's really weird.
0:57:54And I think ultimately what's gonna happen
0:57:56is I probably will keep a handful of albums
0:58:00for like some work specific things in my personal library,
0:58:03and then just rely on all the other metadata
0:58:05in the shared one.
0:58:06And I mean, I don't really have a choice there,
0:58:09but I would love to know why this is what it is.
0:58:12Was it a decision made out of policy
0:58:16and like, this is where we think it's going
0:58:18or was it something they didn't get done
0:58:20so it's not gonna talk about it and we'll get it later?
0:58:23You just never know with Apple, right?
0:58:25We've talked about this
0:58:26and it was like shortcuts in particular, right?
0:58:27Like, oh, it'd be great if we could do this or that.
0:58:30Well, do they not want it to
0:58:31or they just haven't gotten to it yet?
0:58:33- Who knows?
0:58:34- Who knows, right?
0:58:35I mean, there's no visibility into it.
0:58:37- Yeah, it's hard to know if it was a decision
0:58:40or they ran out of time or it's a combination of the two.
0:58:44I don't know.
0:58:45I can tell you that Sylvia,
0:58:47traditionally, like historically,
0:58:49she liked doing albums and carefully sort of
0:58:54putting together these albums for like events
0:58:56or other things like, I don't know,
0:58:59trip to Barcelona or something.
0:59:01She used to do this back in the days of iPhoto.
0:59:05I think her and like, I think she stopped doing this.
0:59:10And I also like my theories that a bunch of other,
0:59:15like a lot of other people did as well.
0:59:17When the Photos app got the really good search
0:59:21for location and times,
0:59:23like I think it became less important
0:59:27to carefully create an album and manually create an album
0:59:31for these trips or life events,
0:59:34because you can just find them, right?
0:59:37When search is good enough, you can retrieve exactly what
0:59:40you're looking for.
0:59:42It kind of defeats the purpose of spending time manually
0:59:45creating an album.
0:59:47And so I think she stopped--
0:59:50I mean, I never started, but she stopped doing it
0:59:53when she realized, oh, I can just search for photos
0:59:56and find the same stuff.
0:59:58Yeah, maybe they just want everybody to get there.
1:00:00I mean, those other features are good, right?
1:00:02It's not like I've kept this up because I felt like
1:00:06it was too messy otherwise.
1:00:07It's just been something I've always done.
1:00:09I mean, way back, we talked about this on the prompt,
1:00:12like way back when I was using Dropbox as my photo library,
1:00:16right, 'cause for a while, for years, that's what I did.
1:00:19I had everything in Dropbox,
1:00:20and those folders basically became albums,
1:00:24and here we are 10 years later, and Apple's saying,
1:00:28well, you know what?
1:00:29Maybe you don't need these after all.
1:00:32I found a post that you just wrote.
1:00:35Tutorial, moving from iPhoto to Dropbox.
1:00:37- Ooh, that was--
1:00:38- You wanna guess what year you wrote that in?
1:00:40- 2012.
1:00:42- 2012, baby.
1:00:43- That's the kind of 2012 energy right there.
1:00:46And I used to have, I'll tell you this,
1:00:49I think at some point I used to have
1:00:52my personal Mac mini server
1:00:56back in the days of Mac mini colo, now MacStadium.
1:01:00I used to have my own Mac mini server that I've used for a bunch of things.
1:01:04One of those things was watching a Dropbox folder for incoming pictures, and I think
1:01:11I had a script, like a Hazel thing, that would rename all those pictures and apply metadata
1:01:18to them so that I basically rebuilt my entire iPhoto photo library in Dropbox.
1:01:27I forgot the details of how this worked, like how did it did those photos go from the camera
1:01:33app on the phone to Dropbox? I don't remember. But it was a very complicated setup that eventually
1:01:40I abandoned when the photos app got decent. So yeah, 2012. That's weirder, weird times,
1:01:49you know, from back in the day before Everpix, before remember Everpix? That was good. Yeah,
1:01:56box where the people in the discord are freaking out that iCloud photo library
1:01:59is now cursed because we've talked about it as a photo sharing service oh no the
1:02:04prompt curse oh our bad oh no sorry I forgot yeah because for a long time on
1:02:13the precursor to the show we talked about a lot of photo sharing services
1:02:16and they had a tendency to go out of business after we talked about them
1:02:18sorry Apple that's that one's that one's on us our bad but overall I am excited
1:02:24about this feature and I don't have like a full strategy
1:02:28to how to move everything into it still.
1:02:30Like it's just gonna be piece by piece.
1:02:33But once it's all up and running,
1:02:35I think it's gonna be really great
1:02:36because I know that she has photos that I don't have
1:02:39and vice versa that we want access to
1:02:40because we've all done it right for years.
1:02:42Like you go on vacation,
1:02:43you airdrop the photos to each other,
1:02:45maybe you forget or you miss some
1:02:47or like it's just kind of been a messy thing
1:02:52and I'm hoping this can tidy it up.
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1:04:28and Relay FM. So I wanted to close out this episode by telling you about how I had an
1:04:36epiphany this week. A major, major realization in my life. Sort of a turning point, how would you
1:04:47call it? Like when you when you just realize something you're like "haha yes!"
1:04:51That's how I'm gonna, that's what I'm gonna do. So yeah, really an epiphany.
1:04:57I was just staring at my desk and very happy with my thoughts. I realized yes,
1:05:05that's what I'm gonna do. That's the plan. I'm gonna start from the end of
1:05:11this and then I'm gonna walk my way backwards into explaining why.
1:05:15Soon, but not yet, soon, I will buy an Apple Studio Display.
1:05:23Let me explain how I got to this point.
1:05:26For months, we've been talking about this here on the show.
1:05:29I talked about it with Jon on App Stories for a few months at this point.
1:05:37What I wanted from the new sort of office space in this new room that we have, the new
1:05:44place that we own, I thought I wanted to have a slightly bigger desk with just about the
1:05:53same length but maybe just a bit deeper, because that's one of the things I don't like about
1:05:57my current desk, is that it's very narrow. And I thought what I wanted was a gaming monitor.
1:06:05I thought I wanted a gaming monitor that I could use for both serious, you know, capital
1:06:10LG Gamer gaming, you know, have refresh rate, OLED quality, if possible, you know, the real
1:06:17gamer stuff. But at the same time, a monitor that I could also use for work stuff. So serving
1:06:26the double purpose of when you want to play video games and you feel like a gamer, you're
1:06:32going to game on this thing. But when you're working on your MacBook Pro or your iPad Pro,
1:06:37same monitor you can use with those devices.
1:06:40Makes sense.
1:06:41And for many months, for many months I thought that, and I was talking to Silvio like, well,
1:06:46unfortunately all these gaming monitors, they all kind of, you know, aesthetically speaking,
1:06:51they are all very sort of, they have that white guy aesthetic, you know, they're plastic-y,
1:06:58and they're not really tasteful, and they have RGB lights.
1:07:02They're the monitors made for people who want to tell you about their monitors, and it's
1:07:07not exa—like, I don't aspire to be that person, but yet, if you want that kind of device in your life,
1:07:15that's, you know, the kind of cost you gotta eat. The aesthetic and the RGB lights, usually, and
1:07:21they're very bulky and plastic-y. Comes with the territory, I suppose. I said, "Well, I'm gonna wait
1:07:27for Black Friday, if there's a good deal, or Cyber Monday, whatever, they're calling it now. I'm gonna
1:07:34wait. It's not a priority now anyway. We're buying all kinds of other furniture for the house.
1:07:40So that thing can wait. Come November, I'll think about it. But then, at the same time, as we have,
1:07:46you know, we've been assembling our living room, we finally found a couch that we like. We're still
1:07:51waiting for other furniture because let me tell you these days, any kind of furniture that you
1:07:56order, they tell you it's a two-month wait. So anyway, we're still waiting for many, many things.
1:08:03Something that I did was I started using my gaming PC, the Corsair One that I have.
1:08:10It's a compact sort of tower, desktop PC. Put that behind my TV. We have a new LG 55-inch OLED TV.
1:08:20It's the C1 from 2021, I believe. OLED 120Hz refresh rate, HDMI 2.1, all the things for
1:08:31having a great picture quality, and also you can use it with a PS5 or a modern PC.
1:08:36And I've been playing beta games, I talked about this on App Stories and on
1:08:40Unwind, I think. I've been playing PC games on the 4K TV from the couch, and it's glorious, because
1:08:49the one thing that I realized, like, I don't need to play at native 4K resolution, because when
1:08:56you're sitting like two and a half meters away from the TV, it doesn't really matter. You can
1:09:02play at 1440p and on PC you can use these upscaling technologies like NVIDIA DLSS or AMD's FSR to
1:09:12upscale your image and it's still gonna look great. I mean, from a distance you're not really gonna
1:09:18notice the drop in resolution, what you're gonna notice however is the performance gain, because
1:09:24Because if you're playing, let's say, Cyberpunk, a 1440p instead of native 4K still looks great
1:09:32from two and a half meters away, but because the computer is pushing fewer pixels, you
1:09:40can get, I don't know, on my gaming PC I can get like 90 or 100 frames per second.
1:09:46And that you can absolutely see.
1:09:48So I've been playing that, I had this realization about dropping the resolution and still having
1:09:53a fantastic looking image on the TV. And also, on the couch, finally having a proper big
1:10:00enough couch, like, I love it. And it's so comfy, and it's sort of what I always wanted
1:10:08to have. And also, let me describe, like, what kind of person am I when I play video
1:10:15games. It's usually a night when, you know, I can just play for a couple of hours before
1:10:21I go to sleep or when Sylvia is not around. Because if Sylvia is around, I'm doing things
1:10:26with her. We're rocking the dogs, we're going shopping, we're doing things around the house.
1:10:31Like I'm not the kind of person who's going, I'm not the kind of guy who's like sitting
1:10:35on the couch playing with his PlayStation and be like, "Babe, can you give me a drink?"
1:10:40Like, no, I'm not the kind of person. I've never been that kind of person. So my gaming
1:10:48time is mostly at night, and I love being in the living room by myself with my, you
1:10:54know, Philips Hue lights, you know, dimmed, set to purple or another, you know, really
1:11:00nice color, and just playing by myself with the headphones on for a couple of hours. It's
1:11:04great. And so I was thinking about this a few days ago, I was like, "Why am I still
1:11:10thinking that I need a gaming monitor in the office too?" If I'm gonna play video games
1:11:17on the couch. It's so comfortable. The TV is 55 inches, it's big enough. I have my gaming
1:11:24PC there. I have a PlayStation 5 there. If for whatever reason the TV is not available,
1:11:30or I don't want to play on the couch, I have a Nintendo Switch, and I have a Steam Deck.
1:11:37On the Steam Deck I can play both PC games, and I can even remote play my PlayStation
1:11:42And if the Steam Deck is still not enough, I also have a gaming laptop.
1:11:48Like I have a gaming PC laptop with a 3080 inside.
1:11:55So like, if I want to have really good graphics quality in a portable device, and the Steam
1:12:01Deck is not enough, I have my gaming laptop.
1:12:05And so I thought, I don't need a gaming monitor on my desk.
1:12:09I need a monitor for work. And so I started researching all my options. And yes, to answer
1:12:18Zach in the Discord, I do have more PCs than Macs. Yes, that is absolutely right. I have
1:12:24one Mac, but I have two gaming PCs. Yes, that is correct. So I started researching options
1:12:30for like, okay, now that I had this, you know, first, once I had the first half of the epiphany,
1:12:37which was, I don't need a gaming monitor, I just need a work monitor.
1:12:43So I started looking into regular monitors.
1:12:46So the research started, was like, OK, OLED or non-OLED?
1:12:50Probably non-OLED, because if I'm gonna use this as a work monitor and say, leave, I don't
1:12:57know, mail open on the monitor or something, I don't want to risk burn-in for that type.
1:13:05not really necessary to have OLED quality and I'm gonna put reminders or
1:13:09Discord on that monitor so I can probably live without OLED for that
1:13:14display. Promotion, like 120Hz refresh rate, is that important? It's nice to
1:13:21have but possibly not essential. I am one of those people who tends to notice the
1:13:29high refresh rate more on smaller displays. I think the bigger the display
1:13:33the less I care. Like, I can absolutely see the difference on my iPhone and iPad,
1:13:40less so on my MacBook Pro. And I would imagine that the same would
1:13:45apply to an even bigger display. I knew that I didn't want to have anything
1:13:52above 30 inches for sure. Like, all these displays, 32, 34, these ultra-wide monitors,
1:13:59no, they're too big. I don't want to, I don't, I don't, I'm not like a, I'm not like a NASA engineer.
1:14:05I don't need to have this wild setup in front of me. I don't need a Bloomberg terminal on my desk.
1:14:12Like, I just, I just want to have, like, I just want to have another space for Windows, essentially.
1:14:17I knew that it needed to be something that looked nice, you know, once I realized, oh, I don't need a gaming monitor.
1:14:24I don't need to have these wild objects on my desk full of lights.
1:14:30I guess I can look for something nice.
1:14:33So I started looking for something nice.
1:14:35And then I knew that I needed to work reliably, as much as possible, with my iPad Pro, considering
1:14:43that stage manager with external display support is coming out, and with my MacBook Pro.
1:14:47So I started looking, and then I realized, I guess what I want in my life is an Apple
1:14:53Studio Display because it's 27 inches. All things considered, it's probably gonna be
1:15:01the display that's gonna give me fewer headaches compared to other displays when it comes to
1:15:07compatibility with my iPad Pro and MacBook Pro. It looks very nice and cost-wise it's
1:15:16probably more expensive than other options, but it looks good and it's made by Apple and
1:15:22the kind of aesthetic I like, and I don't need, I don't want to deal with the complication of,
1:15:29you know, displays from third-party companies, they're not gonna work right or whatever,
1:15:34and so yeah, I'm gonna buy one. I think for Black Friday I'm gonna take advantage, assuming that
1:15:40Apple does one of their coupon things, that you buy a thing and you get like a gift card or
1:15:45something, I'm gonna take advantage of that. That's the plan, I think. The only thing where
1:15:50I'm still undecided is the stand. Like which stand I want. Because the display, I think I want to have the regular display.
1:15:57I don't need to have the nano texture one. The stand,
1:16:01I'm not sure if I want to have the height adjustable one or just the
1:16:06what's it called? Tilt, like the horizontal
1:16:10angle thing.
1:16:12Because you can choose, right?
1:16:14Yeah.
1:16:14You can choose between two stands. One that is also height adjustable and the other isn't.
1:16:19That's right. Maybe I'm gonna go for the one that is not height adjustable. I think it's a good move
1:16:25I mean you like you said the gaming is elsewhere and you need to optimize for what's on your desk and what you use
1:16:32Every day for work. I think I maybe would consider the more expensive stand. It's pretty low
1:16:38I mean fuck most people who have the default stand or like have an iMac end up putting it on something
1:16:43And so maybe if you have like a shelf or a riser you're gonna use you're okay
1:16:47But I think long term you're gonna want that display a little bit higher than the default. I'll trust you
1:16:52I'll get if you say if you see if you're saying that it's pretty low and then I'm gonna regret that
1:16:58Because I think it's like 500 more or something together. Well, alright
1:17:04But I also it's the kind of display that I want to buy once and not think about this for years to come
1:17:09So yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I get that. I get the height adjustable one. But yeah, that's the plan
1:17:14So in a few weeks, hopefully, when is Black Friday?
1:17:17Like 20 days from now or something.
1:17:20- It's coming up. - Yeah, it's coming up
1:17:20in three weeks.
1:17:21So yeah, I'll get one and I will report back on the show
1:17:26in terms of how it goes.
1:17:28But yeah, the dream is to have the display always
1:17:31on the desk and then swap in the device I need,
1:17:34whether it's the MacBook Pro or the iPad Pro.
1:17:37Probably have a dock in the middle, like a Thunderbolt dock.
1:17:41I'm still not sure about this or not,
1:17:43But yeah, that's the plan.
1:17:45I have a fixed display and then swap in the computer
1:17:48that I'm using at the moment.
1:17:49It's mostly going to be the iPad Pro, the MacBook Pro
1:17:51I'm just going to use when I record podcasts.
1:17:53So yeah, I'm very excited about having realized this,
1:17:59having decided this, and now I really cannot wait
1:18:03because I think that display looks super nice
1:18:05and I've been readjusting my desk in preparation for it.
1:18:10I'm using a portable monitor that I already had to sort of see if I actually like this,
1:18:16and I can confirm that I do.
1:18:18I have this portable monitor that I actually want to sell.
1:18:23Not the C-Force one, by the way, not the gaming OLED one that I have, it's another one that
1:18:28I'm selling.
1:18:29But I'm using it as a test and it works.
1:18:31I really like having two monitors, one either the iPad Pro, the MacBook Pro, and the other
1:18:36off on the left side.
1:18:39Really works for me.
1:18:40Discord on the external monitor right now. And so yeah, I'll do this and I will report back.
1:18:45All right, well if you want to find links to stuff we spoke about, head on over to the website
1:18:50relay.fm/connected/422. There you can get in touch, there's an email link there in the sidebar,
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1:19:04free version of the show each and every week. You can find us online. You can find Myke.
1:19:11He hosts a bunch of shows here on Relay FM. Myke will be back next week. Remember to send
1:19:15him the package, the box emoji on Twitter. I think he would like that. He's @IMYKE over
1:19:21there. Federico is the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net, the host of AppStories and
1:19:26a bunch of other shows. You can find me on MacPowerUsers and I write over at 512pixels.net.
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1:19:38Until next time, Federico, say goodbye.
1:19:40- Adios, echos. - Bye, y'all.