0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Connected episode 404.
0:00:12Today's show is brought to you by Pocket Casts, Sourcegraph and Elektrik.
0:00:16My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Federico Vittucci.
0:00:19Hi Federico.
0:00:20Hello my beautiful friend, how are you?
0:00:21Oh, hi!
0:00:24Now I'm in a good mood.
0:00:26Yeah, you should be.
0:00:28You good? How you feeling? How are things?
0:00:31I'm good.
0:00:33You're good? Awesome.
0:00:34We're also joined by handsome man from Tennessee,
0:00:39Mr. Steven Hackett.
0:00:42Hi, Steven.
0:00:43Hey, boys.
0:00:44How are you?
0:00:45I'm good.
0:00:46We just did some very special pre-show
0:00:51for Connected Pro members where Steven was very active
0:00:55in terms of content.
0:00:57So if you want to hear a lot from Steven,
0:01:01make sure to sign up for Connected Pro
0:01:03because you can hear Steven talk
0:01:05and talk and talk for 10 minutes.
0:01:07- Nonstop.
0:01:08- What's nonstop?
0:01:09Really, we needed to stop the guy
0:01:10because he just kept going.
0:01:11- He wouldn't shut up.
0:01:13- Yeah.
0:01:14- So we had to start the show.
0:01:15Getconnectedpro.co.
0:01:17- We have some follow-up we need to contend with.
0:01:20- Oh, okay.
0:01:23- Jen wrote in.
0:01:27There's a grave error in the Bill of Rickies as read on air.
0:01:31The A&E's do not actually refer to the annual Rickies.
0:01:34Rather, they were designated as the gamified year in review,
0:01:39wherein months are judged on the tichi scale.
0:01:42So just to put some--
0:01:45- I also had this thought Federico, when I read this,
0:01:48I was like, we didn't do that.
0:01:50Yes, we did. - What?
0:01:50- Yeah.
0:01:51- So last year for the year in review episode,
0:01:55We grade it every month on the Chi Chi scale
0:01:58from Nightmare to Best I Love You.
0:02:00- Yeah. - Yeah.
0:02:02- You are right.
0:02:03- So what we need to, it's actually a very simple fix
0:02:06in the Bill of Rickeys.
0:02:07All we have to do is pull out the phrase,
0:02:10AKA the Annie's and the Bill of Rickeys.
0:02:12- It's not in there.
0:02:13- Yes it is.
0:02:14It's in the preamble.
0:02:15- Oh, so it's not actually in the Bill of Rickeys.
0:02:17- Right.
0:02:18- This is why Jen's follow up is so good,
0:02:22because they mentioned as read on air,
0:02:25It's not in the published public version of the Bill of Rickies.
0:02:28Really?
0:02:30And also, another thing for great follow-up from Jen,
0:02:33the second part is the game was played in episode 378,
0:02:37but was also named in 379 follow-up as well.
0:02:40Supposedly, this is in the Google Doc.
0:02:42I kept expecting someone to bring up this oversight,
0:02:45but this episode, it was brought up again.
0:02:47So what I like about this is Jen first thought,
0:02:50"That was just a mistake. I'll let him go."
0:02:53But we did it again.
0:02:54So they're like, "All right, I kind of let this stand."
0:02:56And then they wrote in, you know?
0:02:57- Jen came with the receipts, as the kids say.
0:03:00- Yeah, 'cause the tweet also had a link
0:03:02to the episode where we spoke.
0:03:03- So Jen, thank you, I've corrected the preamble.
0:03:06You know, in the last episode,
0:03:08Kate was named the official historian of Relay FM,
0:03:12a title, by the way, that we had given them previously
0:03:14on a live stream.
0:03:15- Geez, are you being serious?
0:03:18What is wrong with us?
0:03:19- I don't know.
0:03:19- Who told you that?
0:03:20Did Kate tell you that?
0:03:21- Kate told us that.
0:03:22- Yeah, okay.
0:03:23So maybe Jin can be the parliamentarian maybe.
0:03:28Okay, can we create a special category in the members discord sidebar that says historian
0:03:35and just put Kate in there?
0:03:37Like we do with OTJ?
0:03:38Yes.
0:03:39Alright.
0:03:40If there's any mods listening, can you just go do that for me?
0:03:44Kate, don't do it yourself because that feels kind of sad really.
0:03:47Yeah, yeah.
0:03:48I think Zach's gonna do it.
0:03:49It's like the Obama with the medal on Obama meme?
0:03:52It's like that.
0:03:53[Laughter]
0:03:54Yes, I love that.
0:04:00So the additional thing is I put a screenshot in our show document, which is a screenshot
0:04:05of our show document, which says "The Annies, the annual year in review.
0:04:09Months are graded on the teacher's scale with inferior minus being the lowest possible score.
0:04:14Nightmares, quote, you know it when you see it."
0:04:17So we'll be doing that again at the end of the year.
0:04:19the, and it actually kind of makes sense, the annual Rickies should not have its own
0:04:26name, right? Because then it would have to be the Annies and the Keenies, right? Because
0:04:29why would the keynote Rickies not have their own name as well? They're all just the Rickies.
0:04:34Some are for keynotes and special events, and some, and one is for the annuals. It's
0:04:39all the Rickies. So I'm happy that Jen wrote in, because this needed to be addressed.
0:04:43Look, we're stuck in a web of our own making with this podcast at this point, so thank
0:04:49you to everyone who helps keep it straight.
0:04:51So I would also just like to make a plea to every single one of our listeners at this
0:04:56point.
0:04:57Please never stop listening to this show because we will never gain another new listener because
0:05:01I think people coming to this show as a new listener, this is just... it's just incoherent.
0:05:08So we'll have to make a pact that nobody can stop listening to the show and therefore we
0:05:14will maintain our audience forever. Is that fair?
0:05:17Yeah, but there needs to be a threat involved. Like if you stop listening, something bad
0:05:24happens to us.
0:05:25We know who you are.
0:05:30Like if you stop listening, something horrible will happen to us, but we can tell you what...
0:05:36Maybe we should make the podcast like a chainmail letter thing.
0:05:40Not only can you not stop listening, you have to share this podcast with 10 of your friends
0:05:44or there's going to be a curse on you.
0:05:46Ooooh.
0:05:47Ahhh.
0:05:48I like that.
0:05:49Yes.
0:05:50Good, right?
0:05:51I don't love it.
0:05:53Why?
0:05:54Are you uncomfortable with curses?
0:05:56A little bit.
0:05:57Yeah, what's the deal?
0:05:58Have you been cursed before?
0:05:59What's the deal?
0:06:00What's the deal with curses?
0:06:02Yeah, Stephen, what's your problem with curses?
0:06:05You know?
0:06:06Have you ever been cursed?
0:06:08Like do you know?
0:06:12I don't know, maybe.
0:06:15We should find out. We should go to uh... What's the name where you go?
0:06:20You know, hey, tell me if I have like if I've been cursed or something.
0:06:24I don't know.
0:06:25Yeah, you go you go to the guy or the lady whatever like what's the name of the profession?
0:06:31Who do I go to if I am cursed?
0:06:34Help us out, chat room.
0:06:36An oracle?
0:06:37Kinda like an oracle?
0:06:39Like a...
0:06:41Come on, there's a name.
0:06:43Fortune teller.
0:06:44Yes, thank you.
0:06:45No, no, fortune teller tells you fortune.
0:06:48They don't help you with curses.
0:06:50The clue's in the name, you know?
0:06:52Like, what's the name of the person that does, like, the tarots?
0:06:55The cards, for example.
0:06:57Well, that's a fortune teller.
0:06:59Right, so I'm thinking of that.
0:07:00But do they know about curses?
0:07:02Well, depending on the cards, they may tell you that you've cursed.
0:07:06But Ken, they can't do anything about it though, right?
0:07:08Well, they...
0:07:09Well, I don't know.
0:07:10Look, it's like going to the doctor, right?
0:07:12You have to see your general practitioner and then they send you to a specialist.
0:07:16So what you're saying is, fortune tellers are the general practitioners of curses?
0:07:21Yes.
0:07:22And then you go see them and you have to go to a specialist.
0:07:24So what I can tell you is that when I was little, my mom went...
0:07:29So I don't believe in any of this stuff, okay?
0:07:31But my mom, for whatever reason, she does or used to.
0:07:35So when I was little, like very little, like seven, I think.
0:07:39So she went to one of these, you know,
0:07:42Conner is like one of these fortune tellers or whatever.
0:07:45(laughing)
0:07:46- Just saying, you know, just say how you feel, you know?
0:07:48(laughing)
0:07:49- Yeah.
0:07:50- Who's curse now, buddy?
0:07:51- So basically, so when she came back home,
0:07:54it was like, what did the wizard or whatever tell you?
0:07:58And so this guy asked for like a hundred euros
0:08:03and the response was that my mom has really bad luck
0:08:07when it comes to traffic and parking her car.
0:08:10Like that's everything the guy told her.
0:08:13- Does it everybody?
0:08:14I mean, it's extremely generic.
0:08:17- When she arrived for the appointment,
0:08:19he did see her crash the car.
0:08:21It was like, I know what's her deal.
0:08:23- That's like going in and be like,
0:08:25one day next week, you will wake up tired.
0:08:28The worst part, the worst part is that my mom was so sure that he was right.
0:08:33It's like, oh, he's totally right.
0:08:34I have so much bad luck when it comes to finding a parking spot everywhere I go.
0:08:39I was like, mom, that's just normal for normal people.
0:08:44Like that happens all the time.
0:08:46No, no, but I'm especially unlucky when it comes to driving around and finding a parking spot.
0:08:51That's my experience with these folks.
0:08:57Just before we move on, I have a secondary question I would like to ask you both.
0:09:00Okay.
0:09:01Just because I feel like it's in the vein.
0:09:03And you could just... yes or no? That's all I'm asking for, alright?
0:09:06Does this count for the quiz?
0:09:08[Laughter]
0:09:10Um... I don't think it can!
0:09:13Okay, okay.
0:09:15[Laughter]
0:09:16The question is, do you believe in ghosts?
0:09:19You see, I kind of feel like I can score this.
0:09:22[Sings]
0:09:24No.
0:09:24Federico?
0:09:25Yeah, yeah, ghosts I do.
0:09:28Alright, I don't want any more. I'm no two, but that's all I wanted.
0:09:32Right? I just feel like we're entering this paranormal world together.
0:09:36I just want to set some stakes, you know?
0:09:38Big time, yeah, ghosts big time, man.
0:09:41I don't believe some other things, but ghosts, yeah.
0:09:45I mean, what else are you going to do when you die? Just hang around and you're invisible. That's so cool.
0:09:50No, that's just it. You're done.
0:09:53You know? I mean, it depends on what you believe. I believe.
0:09:56Have you seen Casper in the movie? That's exactly what they look like.
0:09:59He was a friendly ghost.
0:10:01I have seen him. Casper the friendliest ghost? The friendliest ghost, you know.
0:10:05On CAPTCHA training, remember we were talking about CAPTCHA training?
0:10:08What a pivot!
0:10:09I know.
0:10:10Jose wrote in to say, which is a good reminder,
0:10:16"The original Google CAPTCHA helped train their OCR algorithms when they were doing
0:10:21their library project to scan every book in the world.
0:10:24Do you remember that?
0:10:25It used to show you like weirdly printed words and you had to write down what they were?
0:10:30And now we just have to say this is a stop sign, this is a stop sign because they're
0:10:33trying to train their Waymo cars.
0:10:36On the Hackit number, Sarah wrote in and asked, "Do Apple TVs contribute to the Hackit number?
0:10:41They're not laptops or desktops, not iPods or iPhones, which have been counted.
0:10:46iPhones and iPods have hard drives, so do Apple TVs."
0:10:49I mean if Apple forgets about tvOS I feel like we can also forget about the Apple TV.
0:10:53I don't think it should count but I did just want to know how many Apple TV's Steven has
0:10:57is why I wanted to ask this question.
0:10:59So last year in the report that Kate gave us last week I had told you how many X serves
0:11:06in Apple TV's and a bunch of other stuff.
0:11:08The Hackett number is as it is calculated on Justin's website.
0:11:13But as far as number of Apple TVs, I don't actually know, like, probably four?
0:11:19No, this is the question.
0:11:21I don't know.
0:11:22Are any of those actually in use, or is it like four?
0:11:24Yeah, I've got a 4K that's in use.
0:11:26So one is in use and three are old.
0:11:28I'm guessing they're all the old ones, like the big ones.
0:11:32Uh, yeah.
0:11:33And I have an original, which is cool.
0:11:34Yeah, that's what I mean.
0:11:35The old big ones.
0:11:36Or do you mean, like, what do you mean by original?
0:11:39The original one looked like a thin Mac Mini.
0:11:41Yeah, the silver one.
0:11:43Yeah, I've got the silver one and then I've got probably one of each like the little black pucks.
0:11:48Oh, the little black pucks. Okay.
0:11:49Remember it was $99 for a while? That was cool.
0:11:52No, I remember that. Do you remember it was originally called ITV?
0:11:55Yep. Yes, I do.
0:11:59I'm really happy that that didn't work out for them because that's a bad name.
0:12:04Apple TV is a better name.
0:12:05It is.
0:12:06iWatch.
0:12:08I would like to just ask connected listeners again to help out with a future quiz segment,
0:12:14multiple quiz segments for the connected quiz by filling out the "Do You Know the Passionate Ones"
0:12:20survey. You can find the link in the show notes. I have been very surprised by just how many people
0:12:27have filled it in so far. So I think this is going to be a really good representative sample
0:12:32of connected listeners, to address some follow-up, to address some questions I'll say that I've
0:12:39gotten from some listeners who want clarification on the questions, kind of the point of the
0:12:44way they are written is I want you to answer what you think the answer is.
0:12:49That's kind of the point.
0:12:51Because with this kind of game, the real meta-game is that Steven and Federico have to try and
0:12:59guess what the majority of listeners would say. So I will give a little bit of
0:13:04context. There's a question where I reference when you were at school what
0:13:10was X and people are saying to me what do you mean by school and my answer to
0:13:17them is whatever you think it means. Yeah the whole point of the game is how well
0:13:21we know the listeners. You've got to get into the mindset of the listeners right
0:13:26Because in a question like that, it's like, how old do you think our listener base is?
0:13:31And how old do they think we are?
0:13:33Exactly.
0:13:34Something I think about a lot.
0:13:36Very. Is it very or not? I don't think it's a middle.
0:13:41I think the majority of our listeners either think we're old or really young.
0:13:45And I don't think anybody thinks you're our age.
0:13:49We also found out that quite a few people think I'm a short person.
0:13:55the tallest of us. Where did this come up? Ah, years ago at WWDC at least like
0:14:01multiple people said well you talk slower obviously because they have smart
0:14:06speed but also that I'm taller than they expected. Well you know I always
0:14:09thought you were taller. Yeah but that's psychological. So height wise Federico is
0:14:18the tallest, Myke is in the middle, I am the shortest and I'm six feet tall you
0:14:24guys are both... I'm a smidge over. Like Myke, you're like an inch taller than me
0:14:28if it goes like an inch taller than you. By the way, the word I was thinking
0:14:31about before is "chiro-mancer," but that's still wrong because a chiro-mancer is
0:14:38someone who predicts a person's future by reading the lines on the palms of
0:14:43their hands. So I was thinking of that word, but it's not the correct profession
0:14:48anyway. What about necromancer? Well, that has to do with the death,
0:14:52doesn't it? Well... Isn't a necromancer someone who brings the dead back from, you know...
0:14:59That's what I thought but it just says here as a dictionary definition a person
0:15:03who practices necromancy but I guess what is necromancy? The supposed practice
0:15:07of communicating with the dead especially in order to predict the
0:15:11future. So again it's all still, it's all future-based. I want someone to tell me
0:15:16if I've had a curse in the past not if I'm gonna have a curse in the future, you know what I mean?
0:15:21Am I currently cursed now? Who's telling me that? No one.
0:15:24Right. Well, no, there are people who supposedly do that, but I don't know.
0:15:29But we don't know what they're called.
0:15:31We don't know what they're called.
0:15:33This is the problem. We can't find them.
0:15:35If you are familiar with a person who identifies ongoing curses, let us know.
0:15:42Are we done with whatever that was?
0:15:44Yes.
0:15:45It was a good follow-up.
0:15:47Just in case you hadn't already guessed, we recorded this episode very in advance, and so,
0:15:54you know, there could have been so much news, but you're not going to hear about literally any of
0:15:58it. You're going to hear about necromancy. If only we could know about the future, then...
0:16:04See? See? We needed to have a necromancer, a kyromancer, and a fortune teller - this is like
0:16:13like a start of a joke on this episode. And also chiropractor because my back is
0:16:17a bit stiff at the moment. That wouldn't be too bad either. But yeah. For the record,
0:16:24we're recording this the day after episode 403. It's hard to do two of these in a
0:16:29row, but we're gonna do it. Oh yeah. This episode of Connected is brought to you
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0:18:25Some weeks ago in episode 397, we did a impromptu tier list ranking of iPads.
0:18:33It was iPads that we did, wasn't it? No, iPods.
0:18:36iPods.
0:18:37iPods.
0:18:37iPods.
0:18:38I didn't just get that wrong, I forgot. It was iPods.
0:18:42Ooh, I had COVID!
0:18:44Leave me alone, I got COVID.
0:18:46And now we're gonna do iPhones.
0:18:49So we are going to rank.
0:18:51This was a point, me and Steven had a conversation about this and I think he allowed my thinking
0:18:58to go forward here, was we will rank every single iPhone model, all of them.
0:19:05We have, we're using a tier maker list, as we did before, we're going to have Steven
0:19:10share his screen with Federico and I so we can see this together and we will put a screenshot
0:19:17in the show notes of the completed tier list when it's done.
0:19:20"Steven, would you like to boot up the screen sharing and we can get this rock and roll?"
0:19:25So this is all of them, right?
0:19:26We're doing all the phones, including all of the six models.
0:19:31Steven was like, "Should we do..."
0:19:32This is just a... whatever.
0:19:35My thinking was, say for example, the 6 and 6 Plus, very different phones.
0:19:44So these aren't...
0:19:46I will say this is not in great order here.
0:19:49we might have to reorder this a little bit as we go.
0:19:52- Probably jump around a little bit.
0:19:53And I mean, the best of our knowledge,
0:19:56none of these are missing, but we'll do our best.
0:19:59- I did a scan through and it looked complete to me.
0:20:03- Okay.
0:20:04- Should we go in order?
0:20:06Like we'll go, how would you guys like to do this?
0:20:08Would you like to go in historical order?
0:20:11- Yeah.
0:20:12- So this list has 2G as the original,
0:20:16so the original iPhone.
0:20:17So we're gonna go S to D again?
0:20:19- Yeah.
0:20:22- Does anyone wanna open the bidding?
0:20:23- S tier, baby.
0:20:25It's the first one.
0:20:26- Our original iPhone is S tier.
0:20:28I mean, it's the original one.
0:20:31So, you know, by...
0:20:33It's the phone that started a revolution.
0:20:37- Yeah.
0:20:37- Historically speaking, it's S tier.
0:20:40Now, obviously by today's standard, it's...
0:20:44- It doesn't even make this list.
0:20:45(laughing)
0:20:46It doesn't even have apps!
0:20:48Look, it's got web apps, okay?
0:20:51And finally iOS 16 beta 2 makes web apps that go full screen work nicer.
0:20:59I've said this and I don't know if it's true.
0:21:01Did the original iPhone get the App Store?
0:21:04Yeah.
0:21:05It did?
0:21:06Yeah, the year after.
0:21:08I couldn't remember if that was 3G only.
0:21:10No, no.
0:21:11It did have pretty short software support.
0:21:14I think iOS 3 is the last version it got.
0:21:17I don't think it got iPhone OS 4.
0:21:19But yeah, I mean, Federico is right.
0:21:21Like it started the whole thing.
0:21:22It was incredible.
0:21:25I mean, if you used a smartphone before this,
0:21:28you know that they were nothing like the iPhone
0:21:30and now everything is like the iPhone.
0:21:32So I think S tier it is.
0:21:35- Yeah.
0:21:36- Yeah, for me personally,
0:21:37like I don't wanna rank too many of these
0:21:40on their like historicalness.
0:21:43- Oh, well then--
0:21:43definitely. Yeah, but like I guess a good way to approach it is in
0:21:49the context of the era when it came out, was it a great product and what kind of
0:21:56impact did it have later? Because otherwise obviously like the latest
0:22:01iPhones are the best ones, but that's just from a technological point of view
0:22:08like yeah it's got better camera, better software, it's faster battery, less longer,
0:22:12better display. But I think it's more important to consider the big picture of
0:22:18these devices, like we did with the iPods. Let's say S tier for now.
0:22:23I don't think this one's gonna move from there, to be honest. But yeah, we'll see.
0:22:27Alright, next. iPhone 3G. What's the... So, this is a weird one. So the 3G... So we
0:22:36never officially got the original iPhone in Italy. If you wanted to get a
0:22:39on regional iPhone, you needed to purchase one on eBay, which is what my boss, my one
0:22:45and only boss in my life at the time did. He bought a couple of American iPhones that
0:22:51you needed to unlock to work on the Italian network. And if you wanted to do that, you
0:22:56needed to do the first version of the jailbreak, which you guys remember Installer on the regional
0:23:03iPhone, like before Cydia there was Installer, yeah. Then the following year we got the iPhone
0:23:103G. I never bought an iPhone 3G. I stuck with the original iPhone and then I got the 3GS
0:23:19the year later. So I never got the 3G myself. I had a 3G. I had the original and then I
0:23:25had 3G. We could get the original. What I'll say for the 3G is obviously it got 3G which
0:23:33which was a huge deal, speed wise.
0:23:35- And GPS.
0:23:37- And that was what I was gonna say.
0:23:38That was a massive deal, the GPS,
0:23:40'cause that, I got my iPhone 3G three days
0:23:45before I went on my first trip on my own as an adult.
0:23:51I went to Paris.
0:23:52Knowing that I was gonna be able to look on a map
0:23:54and know which way I was pointing was a huge deal to me.
0:23:58So I rate this one quite high.
0:24:00I don't think it's higher than B-tier, but you could say,
0:24:05'cause I'm sure we're gonna have a lot of conversation
0:24:08compared to the 3G to the 3GS soon,
0:24:11but the 3G I think was a big deal
0:24:14because of adding both 3G speeds and GPS.
0:24:18I think that made it pretty important.
0:24:20- I would back up a B-tier.
0:24:24It also brought the headphone jack flush,
0:24:26which was a big annoyance with the first iPhone.
0:24:28- Oh yeah, oh yeah.
0:24:30- I think B-tier is good.
0:24:32It showed that Apple could rapidly innovate on the phone.
0:24:36Right, having 3G networking out a year later
0:24:39was a big deal.
0:24:39- With a new design.
0:24:41- Yeah.
0:24:42- Different design, yeah.
0:24:43- A year later, we got the 3GS.
0:24:44The first time Apple had an S phone,
0:24:47first time they recycled a design.
0:24:50This added a faster processor for the first time.
0:24:53It also included a compass and pretty basic video recording.
0:25:00I did not have, I don't think I had a 3G,
0:25:03but I did have a 3GS, I had it in white.
0:25:05Remember that, you could get it in white.
0:25:07It was great, but it definitely,
0:25:10I feel like it falls short of the 3G,
0:25:12even though it added a lot more stuff,
0:25:15you know, again, year on year,
0:25:17I don't think it was as big of a deal as the 3G,
0:25:20and I don't know, like I enjoyed my time with it, but.
0:25:25- I'd like to offer a correction to myself.
0:25:27I said that the iPhone 3G let me know what way I was facing.
0:25:31It didn't, it showed me where I was on the map.
0:25:33It needed the compass to tell me which way I was facing.
0:25:35- Right. - So I didn't get that
0:25:36until later. - Which is wild
0:25:37that they didn't ship at the same time,
0:25:39but I guess that is what it is.
0:25:40- Yeah, but still, just the GPS was a huge deal, right?
0:25:44Anyway, like you could see where you were on the map.
0:25:46The 3GS is the only iPhone I skipped.
0:25:50- It was the first iPhone that I bought with my own money.
0:25:53And I loved the 3GS.
0:25:57I have so many fond memories of the 3GS,
0:26:00because it's also the phone that I started really
0:26:03doing Mac stories with.
0:26:05And so I remember I have all these memories of all these
0:26:08apps that I was testing on the iPhone,
0:26:10and I needed to write all these reviews,
0:26:12because I had just started the website.
0:26:16And so I was really going wild with installing apps
0:26:19from the App Store.
0:26:20And the App Store was so young.
0:26:22I loved the 3GS and especially because it was my,
0:26:25like I could do video and you know,
0:26:29the first version of Google Maps, man, those,
0:26:33I would, I don't think the 3GS is S tier.
0:26:36I would push for an A tier,
0:26:40but I could accept also a B tier maybe, high B tier.
0:26:45What are you guys leaning?
0:26:48- I don't think it could break B tier, to be honest.
0:26:51- But it's 2B.
0:26:52- That is good, 'cause I think it added enough
0:26:55on top of the 3G that the 3G added on top of the 2G.
0:26:59And like, I don't think either of them really break out,
0:27:02especially when we're about to talk about the iPhone 4.
0:27:05- Okay.
0:27:06All right, so we can give BTS to the 3DS.
0:27:09iPhone 4, and we're now in 2010.
0:27:14So there's a before and after the iPhone 4.
0:27:16The before is obviously the leak.
0:27:19the iPhone that was lost in a bar, found pictures and the unit itself given to Gizmodo, who
0:27:27published an article and Steve Jobs got upset and then the police got involved and it was
0:27:32a whole story. And famously, this is still when Apple was announcing new iPhones in June.
0:27:40And so Steve Jobs joked on stage like, "Stop me if you've seen this before, but trust me,
0:27:46really haven't seen it yet. But that was a wild story. And the iPhone itself, to me,
0:27:54I will just come right out and say it, this is to me an S-tier iPhone. The scene for the
0:28:01first time, the retina display, was incredible. I remember being one of the first people in
0:28:08Viterbo who got an iPhone 4 and I remember my friends asking me to if they
0:28:16could just look at the display and try out the camera to see what it was gonna
0:28:22what it was gonna look like. Was also the first phone with a gate.
0:28:28Zantana gate was the iPhone 4. Yeah we had that we had the issue with the
0:28:34white finish not shipping until the very end we had issues with the the
0:28:41proximity sensor they had a couple software updates to fix all that it
0:28:44definitely had a bit of a marred entry I think a lot of people would say that
0:28:49it's the most beautiful iPhone or one of those beautiful iPhones and it brought
0:28:53the retina display like I think it's a tier if not s I would push for an S tier
0:29:00I mean also the design of the iPhone 4 it influenced like what the 4s the 5s
0:29:12and the SC right and then the 13 and then it came back in fashion again so
0:29:20like I mean the iPhone I think the iPhone 4 is a clear sort of you know
0:29:27moment in Apple's history, which is like this is an iconic design that has aged very well.
0:29:37It's back in fashion again, but also at the time it felt like such an incredible upgrade
0:29:44from the 3GS and it ruined the older iPhones. Once you saw that display, it ruined everything
0:29:52else.
0:29:53I think it's an S tier.
0:29:55I think it's an S tier because of what it was at the time and the story, the leak and
0:30:00the antenna gate and the special press conference for antenna and the bumpers.
0:30:05Remember the free bumper?
0:30:07Free bumper was awesome.
0:30:08That was a great little case.
0:30:10Never a better iPhone case than the bumper.
0:30:13And you can still try and get them today, but they just don't work as well.
0:30:16You know, like that was the best iPhone case.
0:30:18It was the perfect case.
0:30:21Up next we have the 4S, which was the first fall release iPhone.
0:30:27And again, recycling the design of the 4, this phone brought Siri with it.
0:30:33And remember, Siri was just locked to the 4S and eventually it came to the iPad and
0:30:38they slowly rolled it out across their devices.
0:30:41But it was the...
0:30:43The 4S sort of helped cement the pattern, right?
0:30:463G, 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, 5S.
0:30:49and they've been in that, they were in that pattern for quite a long time. It's a solid
0:30:54phone, it's also the phone, no the 4 is what, there was a Verizon version of the iPhone
0:31:014, the 4 was the first time it was beyond AT&T here in the US. But it was like halfway
0:31:06through right? It was like, it wasn't immediate. Yeah the 4s is a solid phone but you know,
0:31:12it definitely lives in the shadow of the 4 in a big way. This means nothing really, but
0:31:18this was announced the day before Steve died, right?
0:31:22Like this doesn't make a difference for the tier list.
0:31:25It doesn't make it like a D tier phone, but.
0:31:27- Remember that people thought it was called 4S
0:31:29because it meant 4Steve?
0:31:31Personally, it was a fine phone, but like Siri,
0:31:38I mean, it was kinda, I mean,
0:31:41it still is kinda terrible for a lot of things.
0:31:45I mean it was, it was, it was fun. Like, Siri was fine, right? Like, Siri was fine.
0:31:51It was okay, but I also remember a ton of people getting upset that the iPhone 4 did not get Siri.
0:32:00Just like, just like people are upset now the stage manager is for M1 iPad only.
0:32:05That's not a thing that people get upset about.
0:32:07I would say C tier.
0:32:10Yeah.
0:32:11There's no, you know, this is not really notable, I feel like.
0:32:15Like these, the other phones that we've mentioned, I don't really feel like, but it's not bad.
0:32:18It was perfectly fine for the time, but like, looking back, I don't think it's mega exciting.
0:32:24I mean, what else was new besides Siri? Like a better camera?
0:32:29I think it had better video in particular.
0:32:31It had an 8 megapixel camera with a 1080p video recording. It was also the first, it also had a A5.
0:32:39it wasn't the iPhone 4 we didn't mention this right it was the first Apple A branded chip.
0:32:45Yeah I would agree with the 4s getting the C tier it's not really D tier because it wasn't a
0:32:52terrible phone but it was an okay update so C tier good for me I think. All right up next we have the
0:33:00iPhone 5. The first time an iPhone got a bigger display remember it was the same horizontally but
0:33:08but it grew vertically.
0:33:09And it brought LTE,
0:33:12and it brought a revised design with an aluminum back.
0:33:16So they got rid of the glass back from the 4 and 4S,
0:33:18so it weighed a lot less.
0:33:20I remember the primary thing about the iPhone 5
0:33:22was you picked it up and it felt fake.
0:33:25This didn't weigh anything.
0:33:27It was really cool.
0:33:29And came in silver and white, but also came in slate,
0:33:34which is like this really cool dark black color.
0:33:37And it was before the space gray era,
0:33:40but I thought the black,
0:33:42the slate iPhone 5 looked really cool.
0:33:45- And it was the first iPhone of a lightning port.
0:33:47- Yeah, I was about to say,
0:33:50I have no recollection of this generation of iPhones
0:33:54besides the lightning connector.
0:33:57Like that's, I didn't really like the design
0:34:01of the 5 and the 5S.
0:34:04I thought it felt kind of cheap
0:34:07because it was so much lighter than the,
0:34:09like I didn't really like the aluminum back.
0:34:11Yeah, I don't have a ton of fond memories for this one.
0:34:17- As you can imagine, I loved it
0:34:20'cause the screen got bigger.
0:34:22So I was a big fan of this phone.
0:34:24I mean, I'm not one of the people,
0:34:25like there are some people that say
0:34:26that this is the best looking iPhone ever made.
0:34:28I'm not one of those people,
0:34:30but I think that this phone is good for these reasons, right?
0:34:34LTE, bigger screen, lightning connector.
0:34:38It also had a much better camera,
0:34:42the Sony 8 megapixel camera.
0:34:44I mean, I would say this is a,
0:34:46I would say this, for me, starts at a B.
0:34:50- Yeah, I was thinking B,
0:34:51or maybe we break the seal on the A tier.
0:34:53- I would be happy if it going into A,
0:34:56but I think it would be tricky
0:34:57because Federico seems to really not like it.
0:34:59- For the iPhone 5 A tier,
0:35:02Let's keep it in B tier and we can reevaluate.
0:35:04Yeah. Okay. It's B tier it is.
0:35:07We have an A tier coming up anyway, so.
0:35:105C now.
0:35:11Yeah, yeah, no. Yes. I'm serious.
0:35:15Oh, I am 100% thinking the 5C is our first D tier phone.
0:35:21What?
0:35:22What?
0:35:23What? No, no.
0:35:24Why?
0:35:25This is like...
0:35:26Why?
0:35:27It was incredible and weird. The one time that Apple did something weird, we're not
0:35:31rewarding them for doing so it came in colors and it was plastic. They made bad decisions like just
0:35:37bad decisions the case with the none in it? Yes stupid yes no stupid it was great it was like
0:35:46so avoidable so avoidable just don't put the holes on that area no it was the cross iPhone no
0:35:55It looked incredible.
0:35:56And it was, there was a green one?
0:35:59- I don't think I could have this be A tier.
0:36:02- Oh my God.
0:36:03It's like the iPod Nano all over again.
0:36:06- It is.
0:36:07- This is wild to me.
0:36:08I mean, look, you can outvote me,
0:36:10but I just want to get it on the record.
0:36:12- You hate fun.
0:36:13That's the problem.
0:36:13- No.
0:36:14No, I love fun.
0:36:16But they ruined this one.
0:36:18- It was also the first time,
0:36:19and really kind of only time,
0:36:21Apple deviated from the old phone gets cheaper
0:36:26and the 5 went away.
0:36:28The 5S is, or the 5S was new,
0:36:30we'll talk about that in a second.
0:36:31The 5C was basically the iPhone 5 in a new enclosure
0:36:36with a slightly updated FaceTime camera.
0:36:39Assuming that was because the 5 was too expensive to make
0:36:42or they needed something cheaper to make at the cheaper end,
0:36:45but it was the only time and it was super colorful.
0:36:49It came out with iOS 7
0:36:50And so there was a lot of interplay between the hardware colors and the wallpapers that
0:36:55were set by default.
0:36:56I agree with Federico.
0:36:58I think it should be rewarded for being unusual.
0:37:02Yes, yes.
0:37:03I mean, look at it.
0:37:04I want to just make, I want to make one final statement and you can put this wherever you
0:37:08want.
0:37:09Okay.
0:37:10I think it is weird to A or S tier a phone that none of us chose to own as our phones.
0:37:15I skipped this generation entirely.
0:37:17I went from a 4S to a 6.
0:37:19So you hated all of the 5s?
0:37:21No, I just... I think that year Mary got a 5s.
0:37:24Wasn't this when you were on Android?
0:37:26Uh, that's also possible.
0:37:28Yeah.
0:37:30Oh yeah, you did the thing.
0:37:32Yeah, you did the thing.
0:37:32Didn't you do the thing where you used like, Droid for a year or something?
0:37:38I had a Palm Pre and a Droid.
0:37:41Yeah, you did that.
0:37:42Was it called 512 at the time or was it still Fork Bomber?
0:37:49I think it was Folk Bomber then, it probably was Folk Bomber.
0:37:51It may have been Folk Bomber.
0:37:53So where are we putting this?
0:37:54So Myke doesn't want to do A tier.
0:37:58We wanted to do D tier.
0:38:00We're not doing D tier.
0:38:01No, we don't have to do D tier.
0:38:02I know what we're doing D tier for, personally.
0:38:06Oh, me too.
0:38:06I have a bunch of D tiers already scanned out.
0:38:09Oh, it's going to be great.
0:38:11It's going to be a real valley of D tier for a while.
0:38:15I think we go B tier as a compromise.
0:38:18I would be perfectly fine with that.
0:38:20But it's an A tier in our hearts.
0:38:22Okay.
0:38:22Yes, yes, yes.
0:38:24Fine.
0:38:25Alright, yeah, we'll go with B.
0:38:27So we skipped the 5S, so...
0:38:30What was the 5S? I honestly don't remember.
0:38:34Touch ID.
0:38:35Touch ID!
0:38:3664-bit, A7.
0:38:38The M7 motion code processor.
0:38:41Oh yeah, I was into that.
0:38:44Came in gold.
0:38:45Yeah.
0:38:45For the first time.
0:38:46Solid phone.
0:38:48If you didn't like the 5 design, it didn't change at all.
0:38:51But Touch ID was the first biometric security on an iPhone, right?
0:38:57I think the 5S should be pretty high.
0:38:58Yeah.
0:38:59So I will make a pitch here just like not to put it in a ranking, but just as like a thing.
0:39:05I think that Touch ID was as big and important to the iPhone as the Retina display.
0:39:10I don't disagree.
0:39:12I don't think this is S tier.
0:39:13I wouldn't say S tier.
0:39:15I think this is my first A tier phone.
0:39:19- Agreed.
0:39:19- Now that you reminded me of what it was
0:39:21with touch ID and the M7,
0:39:24all the new generation of fitness apps,
0:39:26like pedometer plus plus came out in this era, I think,
0:39:31because of the M7.
0:39:32- It did.
0:39:33This was the first 64 bit.
0:39:36Yeah, dual core system on a chip with the A7.
0:39:38This phone was a big deal.
0:39:39Plus, I mean, if we put the 5C as B tier,
0:39:43- This has to be higher.
0:39:44- Let's go iPhone 5C, yes.
0:39:49Yeah, this is an A, not S tier
0:39:51because like I don't exactly remember
0:39:53like off the top of my head what was new in the 5S.
0:39:55- No, I don't think this is an S tier.
0:39:56- But now that you mention it, it is A tier.
0:39:59At the time, it was a great upgrade.
0:40:02Yeah, now I remember.
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0:42:02- All right, so next in the list, we're now in 2014.
0:42:07iPhone 6. So iPhone 6, a couple of things. Brand new design and the first time that Apple is selling the new iPhone in two versions.
0:42:19This marks the debut of the Plus family of devices. So we have the iPhone 6 and the iPhone 6 Plus, which is the bigger one, which also marked the start of the Plus Club, as it was known at the time.
0:42:34So the iPhone 6, and I'm pulling up the specs here, so the iPhone, the base model iPhone 6 was a...
0:42:44What kind of display was it? 4.7?
0:42:464.7 inches.
0:42:48And the plus was 5.5?
0:42:505.5.
0:42:51Yeah, 5.5.
0:42:52So it was a 1080p display on the 6 Plus.
0:42:57and brand new design with the rounded edges. This is the kind of design
0:43:04that's gonna be around for a while. Touch ID, better camera, front facing cameras
0:43:12now doing 720p video recording. There's an 8 megapixel camera on
0:43:18the back. What else was worth noting on the 6 family? I think that's about it.
0:43:24it. It was a huge salespike for Apple. There was so much pent-up demand for larger iPhones.
0:43:31Yes. And they struggled with that for years to come because the 6 was such a huge high point.
0:43:37Phone sales for a while after that looked bad in comparison. They eventually sort of
0:43:42rided the ship with Wall Street, but it was this huge explosion. I don't love the design,
0:43:49and I think it's aged pretty poorly in terms of how it looks.
0:43:54And it started a just terrible time of iPhone design.
0:43:58With the rounded edges and...
0:44:00Just the iPhone 6 design stuck around for so long.
0:44:06Yeah.
0:44:06Like it's still around, right?
0:44:09Yeah, the SE still uses the same basic design.
0:44:11So I think 6D.
0:44:15Whoa.
0:44:16Yeah, I don't disagree.
0:44:18Because 6 plus, right? S. That's where I am baby.
0:44:26I actually disagree with this. Okay, so let's handle the 6 first. I don't think we can give it a D.
0:44:32I think D is truly terrible.
0:44:33Well look what it did, right? Design-wise, the iPhone was so boring for so long.
0:44:40But we didn't know that at the time, right?
0:44:43But we're not ranking how we knew it at the time.
0:44:46I'm not saying we do.
0:44:46Really?
0:44:47but I think that it deserves a benefit of a doubt above a D. I am willing to put it in C.
0:44:54Okay, you know what? Put it in C because then I know where we're putting the seven,
0:45:00all right? They're for many good reasons. And I say six plus. Six plus is an S tier.
0:45:07Uh-uh.
0:45:08A tier.
0:45:09No, it's A. It had a critical flaw. Do you remember the problem with the six plus?
0:45:13What, the bending?
0:45:16that was the bending but it didn't have enough memory and so it was slow compared to the other
0:45:23phones. I think 6S+ is S tier. I think 6+ is probably A. Yeah because the 6+ was doing,
0:45:29it didn't have enough memory for the downscaling that the display was doing. Okay, the only reason
0:45:35I went with it is because it was the first big one. That was why I wanted to put it in S, so it's
0:45:40like it's slightly historical but you know what, I think that actually works pretty well. Let's put
0:45:446 Plus in A and let's just straight away just put 6S Plus in S like that's taken care of, right?
0:45:51- Yeah, I love the 6S Plus. - Such a great phone.
0:45:54- Yeah. - I don't normally do this,
0:45:56but I want to read something from my review of the 6S Plus just for some context. I'm also really
0:46:02happy with how this reads years later. So the 6 Plus wasn't perfect with just one gigabyte of RAM,
0:46:07it struggled under load. It had been years since I saw an iOS device stumble like the 6 Plus could,
0:46:13and I got old quickly. Those extra pixels were just too much for the internals to handle at times.
0:46:18The 6 Plus was kind of like that kid at prom who clearly just borrowed one of his dad's suits.
0:46:24It was passable, but not great. That's funny. I have no memory of this, like the 6 Plus having
0:46:33this memory issue. No memory of it all. That's funny. But that's a good, I like that analogy.
0:46:39Thank you. I was happy with that.
0:46:41I'm also checking out, now that you mentioned this, Stephen,
0:46:43I also looked it up and I also had a story about the 6S Plus
0:46:47called "How the 6S Plus is Reshaping My iPhone Experience."
0:46:50And I just remembered that on the 6S Plus,
0:46:54we also got the new Touch ID, second generation Touch ID.
0:46:58Oh, yeah. It was...
0:46:59Was on the 6S Plus.
0:47:013D Touch. And 3D Touch.
0:47:03Which is a feature I still miss.
0:47:06Yeah, I agree.
0:47:08The iPhone 6S Plus is more than faster chips.
0:47:11It brings a nimble, more productive iOS experience
0:47:14that makes everyday interactions better.
0:47:16- Wow, look at your home screen.
0:47:18Editorial, outlook, dispatch to do,
0:47:23man, some good stuff in there.
0:47:25- Peek and pop, remember peek and pop?
0:47:27- Peek and pop. - Peek and pop, baby.
0:47:29- Our friends, peek and pop.
0:47:30So what about the regular 6S then?
0:47:34- So it got the better touch ID, obviously.
0:47:37It got the 3D touch.
0:47:39Rose gold.
0:47:40Rose gold, which was actually really good looking.
0:47:42It was good looking.
0:47:444K, it could do, the 30 frames per second.
0:47:47A9, live photos, come on.
0:47:51Oh yeah.
0:47:52This is a good phone.
0:47:53So we wanna go B?
0:47:55Yeah.
0:47:56Yeah.
0:47:57I would go B.
0:47:57Yeah.
0:47:58'Cause it's not A, I feel like.
0:48:01Up next we have the first iPhone SE,
0:48:04which recycled the five,
0:48:07and well really it recycled the 5S design,
0:48:10but had the guts of the 6S minus 3D touch.
0:48:16So this was great for people,
0:48:19remember at this point,
0:48:20a lot of people still really wanted that smaller phone size.
0:48:23It definitely had its fans,
0:48:26including my spouse who used an original iPhone SE
0:48:29for a long, long time.
0:48:32But it held the price point open to, I guess,
0:48:36but I'm not particularly excited about any iPhone SE.
0:48:39- So here's the thing with the SE, right?
0:48:43The three of us don't care about this phone at all, right?
0:48:46Like, just don't care about it.
0:48:48I know people care about it, I'm not one of these people.
0:48:51The iPhone SE, when it debuted, I guess,
0:48:55was good for people who wanted this,
0:48:57but then the problem with it is it stuck around
0:48:59for too long, I feel like?
0:49:01- Yeah, it really got old before the SE2 showed up.
0:49:04- So I feel like for me, any good is weighed out
0:49:08by just how long it stuck around for,
0:49:10just four years. - Yeah, it kinda overstayed
0:49:13its welcome, I think.
0:49:15Like, it's enough with the original SEs.
0:49:17- I would say, I mean, so this is the question, right?
0:49:20Are we gonna D tier all the SEs?
0:49:23- I think this one gets a C.
0:49:25- No, no, not the, mm.
0:49:28I wouldn't D tier the latest SC.
0:49:32- What would I though? - I would.
0:49:34Let's get to that when we get to it, but that's my question.
0:49:36I mean, I could, for me, if I was going to rank any of them higher than a D,
0:49:42it would be this one.
0:49:43Like, and we'll put it at a C, because like, people really dug it.
0:49:49I think it had the most momentum behind it.
0:49:51Yeah, I mean, and also like, if again, this comes in whenever we need it.
0:49:55Historically it was a weird and odd and like they brought the name SE to it
0:49:59What does that mean and all that kind of stuff and I would say I say we could go see with this one
0:50:04Yeah, we can go see okay. Yeah, but not any higher than that
0:50:09I've got one word to describe the next iPhone courage
0:50:13No the courage to move on yep from things that some people still want this has got to be the easiest
0:50:20- D tier, D tier.
0:50:23- D tier.
0:50:23- Yeah.
0:50:24- D tier phone, D tier phone.
0:50:27And I know we're gonna get these nerds who are like,
0:50:29"But what about Jet Black?"
0:50:31Don't care, don't care.
0:50:33- It was cool.
0:50:34- The problem with the iPhone 7
0:50:36was the headphone jack removal.
0:50:39- And yes, that is like 95% of it.
0:50:43- Yep.
0:50:44- But also they recycled the design for the third time.
0:50:47And this was the first time we had seen that.
0:50:51- So it was like, oh, well that's not what I wanted.
0:50:53But the problem with the headphone jack removal
0:50:56was there was no reason for it.
0:51:00The reason was they were getting rid of it now
0:51:05so they could get ready for the iPhone 10, right?
0:51:10But they got rid of it early,
0:51:11like they sacrificed the iPhone 7.
0:51:13And I know why they did that, like that's fine,
0:51:16but like it was just annoying at the time, right?
0:51:18- Look, honestly, I still feel like it's kind of
0:51:22a silly decision to get rid of the headphone jack.
0:51:26Like it still comes up, I see this with Sylvia,
0:51:29it still comes up a bunch of times every year
0:51:32that like she needs to connect an iPhone
0:51:35with a headphone jack to something.
0:51:36And it's like, I gotta get the adapter.
0:51:40So I don't know.
0:51:41- Yeah, I love AirPods and would never go back,
0:51:45but at the same time, it's just a strange thing to me to have gotten rid of it.
0:51:49When it like, yeah, so I think this is an easy D tier for that reason.
0:51:54It was just like, it was just an annoying thing.
0:51:56It made the phone annoying.
0:51:57It was annoying to talk about it at the time.
0:52:00Like it had good, well, the 7 Plus had some good features.
0:52:04Like it was the first phone to get a telephoto lens.
0:52:06- Yes.
0:52:08- So I feel like that would bump the 7 Plus up.
0:52:10- Yeah, because the 7 Plus was the first one
0:52:12to have the dual camera.
0:52:14- Yeah, first iPhone with two cameras.
0:52:16- I think seven plus is A tier.
0:52:20- Wow, that's a big difference.
0:52:22- Solely because of the camera thing,
0:52:23because it showed us what was possible.
0:52:27And Android phones have been doing this for a while,
0:52:29Apple wasn't first, but it showed us iPhone users like,
0:52:31"Oh, you can really do these other things."
0:52:34- Yeah, you know why I'll agree with you?
0:52:36Because I was very much on the bigger screen
0:52:41and I convinced the two of you
0:52:42and we all went to bigger screen
0:52:43we were the plus club, right? And everyone's like "it's stupid with your big phone" and
0:52:48then we got a feature that no other phone got and it was a really good one and everyone
0:52:52got really jealous. So I will also agree with ATR for that reason.
0:52:57Was the 7 plus also when portrait mode was introduced?
0:53:01Yes.
0:53:02Yes it was.
0:53:03Oh yeah. Easy ATR.
0:53:04It was the first one where they did the like "here's a preview of a feature we're working
0:53:08on" you know?
0:53:09Yeah for sure ATR then.
0:53:11Now we have talked about the iPhone that everyone forgets.
0:53:14(laughing)
0:53:16The iPhone 8.
0:53:17- D tier.
0:53:18It's nothing, this phone did nothing.
0:53:22- It had, we turned the glass back for wireless charging,
0:53:25but that's about it.
0:53:27- Yeah, yeah, that's, nobody, do we, I don't,
0:53:32I honestly feel like there's kind of a, this must,
0:53:35there must be a conspiracy theory
0:53:37that the iPhone 8 never actually existed.
0:53:39It's the Mandela Effect phone, right?
0:53:41Yeah, yes, yes.
0:53:43Do you know anybody who got an iPhone 8?
0:53:45No.
0:53:46Me neither.
0:53:47How can we know for sure that the iPhone 8 existed?
0:53:50It is weird because why...
0:53:52I feel like not a lot of people would have chosen this phone.
0:53:56They either would have kept their previous phone,
0:53:59or got the X, right?
0:54:02Like if they were upgrading that year, you'd maybe get a X,
0:54:05or you would get an 8.
0:54:06Now, I'm sure as many people in the Discord are already telling us the person that they know that had them
0:54:10I'm not expecting that many like people that would listen to this show would necessarily choose an 8 that would surprise me
0:54:18But maybe it was a price thing, you know, I don't know
0:54:21Maybe like you could get one for free on a contract and the 10 was was
0:54:25Super expensive again, like to mention what you said before this is now the fourth time we've had this design
0:54:31Yeah, I know, D tier, and I would say the same for the 8 Plus.
0:54:35Yeah, because I don't think it did anything any different.
0:54:38No, no.
0:54:39Unlike the 7 Plus, now the features were, you know, we had the telephoto there, these phones, like, why would you...
0:54:46Well, I'm sure there were reasons, but in the grand scheme of things, this has to be one of Apple's
0:54:53lowest points in terms of...
0:54:55The iPhone 8 existed so they could charge a thousand dollars for the iPhone X.
0:55:01Mm-hmm. That's the reason the iPhone 8 exists because they they couldn't have only made one phone that year and it cost
0:55:07$1,000. Yeah still boring
0:55:09Boring, boring phone. Yeah, boring, boring phone.
0:55:12iPhone 10 or let's just face it
0:55:16iPhone X and so people pronounced it for years
0:55:21And still do. Yep. I'm just gonna say that for me. This is an S-tier iPhone
0:55:28I agree with you.
0:55:30Because of all... because this is like, just like the iPhone 4, this was another clear
0:55:35moment in Apple's history when you look back and you can say, in that moment, that device
0:55:42changed things.
0:55:44The notch, the liquid retina display, the new design, the glass back.
0:55:50The one negative aspect of the iPhone X was that there was no 10+ that year.
0:55:56For that, we would have to wait the following year.
0:55:59But at least the screen size was, it like, sat in the middle, right, of the two, so it
0:56:04was, it was fine.
0:56:06Yes, yes, and I, I remember one of my, one of my favorite stories, how I received the
0:56:12iPhone X, I remember, I don't know if you guys remember, but you, you guys received
0:56:17your iPhone Xs on the Friday, and in that week, there was a national UPS strike in Italy.
0:56:24- I remember, 'cause I remember how upset you were.
0:56:27- And I was so upset because I really, really wanted to get one.
0:56:31- I think you just didn't respond to messages for a few days
0:56:33'cause you didn't want to see us talking about our iPhone 10.
0:56:36- I was so upset and I was very jealous of everybody else.
0:56:39Like, I'm just gonna get out of the internet for a few days.
0:56:43And because I wanted to get this phone
0:56:46as quickly as possible on the morning of the Monday,
0:56:50after the weekend, I had arranged
0:56:53to get the phone number of the UPS delivery guy.
0:56:58And I called him and we met in the middle of the street
0:57:01as he was doing other deliveries in my neighborhood in Rome
0:57:06so just that he could grab the package for me
0:57:08and give it to me like two hours before it would--
0:57:10- It's when you grease the palm.
0:57:12- Yeah, that's when I-- - Grease the palm.
0:57:14- Where it all came from, like,
0:57:15"Hey, can I get your phone number
0:57:17in case I need special treatment for some deliveries?"
0:57:22Yeah.
0:57:22- I need special treatment.
0:57:24(laughing)
0:57:25I love that.
0:57:26I'm deciding.
0:57:27(laughing)
0:57:28I need special treatment.
0:57:28- I mean what?
0:57:29You're not gonna do me a favor?
0:57:30You're not gonna do me a favor of me,
0:57:32such a lovable guy?
0:57:33Come on.
0:57:34- Such a lovable guy.
0:57:35- Man of the people. - So handsome.
0:57:36- So iPhone 10, great phone.
0:57:38- S tier.
0:57:39- S tier, easy.
0:57:40- This episode of Connected is brought to you by Electric.
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0:59:09the iPhone 10 R
0:59:12people thought this was an iPhone 5c
0:59:17and it it kind of was I mean it was colorful it was cheaper than the 10s and
0:59:24especially the tennis max it the size was interesting it was actually in
0:59:29between the two so it was yeah it was kind of like a slightly bigger iPhone 10
0:59:36but not as big as the max it was the in-between phone I really I really liked
0:59:41the 10r and really enjoyed the colors and I used one for a while I ultimately
0:59:47though missed having the telephoto camera. But I think the XR is better than
0:59:55than people think it is. Yeah, I liked it a lot and I bought it as a gift from
1:00:03my mom at WWDC 2018. Oh yeah! Yeah, I bought one for my mom. Yeah, yeah, she used it
1:00:13until six months ago. Yeah, great phone. My mom still stood us on her tenor. I just went
1:00:18to check. Well, I was 16-run on it and it will, so I don't need to upgrade her. Because
1:00:23my mom is very happy, she just doesn't want to change her phone. She just likes her phone
1:00:27and she doesn't want to change it. So like, I would love to give her a new iPhone, but
1:00:31it's just easier for me to wait until she can't have the phone anymore, right? So I'm
1:00:36just going to let it go another year or two, I guess. But I bought her the Coral One in
1:00:40in a clear case and she loves it.
1:00:43And it's a great phone.
1:00:44I mean, one of the good things about this phone
1:00:46compared to the XS was it had better battery life.
1:00:49- Yeah.
1:00:50- 'Cause it was running an LED display.
1:00:52- That's right.
1:00:53- And I know one of the things that people don't like
1:00:55about this phone is that it was 720p, right?
1:00:57And I understand that.
1:00:59Is that right?
1:01:00It was 720, right?
1:01:01Because of the dimensions?
1:01:03I know that the display was a thing.
1:01:07- It was 1792 by 828.
1:01:11So it was a little bigger than 720, but it wasn't 1080.
1:01:14- So I know that people didn't like that.
1:01:16- It was the same density as the other LCD iPhones,
1:01:21like the iPhone 8 or 8 Plus, or 7 or 6 Plus,
1:01:27but because of its size, people wanted it to be more dense.
1:01:32It's not that it looked worse than previous phones,
1:01:34it just wasn't as good as the OLED.
1:01:36So I mean I would put this in B tier.
1:01:39- Yeah, I'd get behind that.
1:01:41- I was gonna go for A tier,
1:01:43but yeah let's put it in B maybe.
1:01:46- I really like this phone.
1:01:48We have the 5S, the 6 Plus and the 7 Plus in A tier.
1:01:51I'm not sure the XR belongs there.
1:01:54- That was my thought too.
1:01:55- Like I really like this phone,
1:01:58but I don't think that it deserves that.
1:02:02- Okay.
1:02:03- iPhone XS.
1:02:05a D tier for me. Mm-hmm. Well I would like to know why. Horrible camera. Horrible camera.
1:02:10Camera. The HDR in particular was so bad. Photos from that era in my library, they look horrible.
1:02:18And we had an episode about this, I remember off connected, where Steven and I complained.
1:02:24Myke was sort of okay, I think, at the time with it. I didn't have the same feelings, but I know
1:02:30it was something that lots of people felt but like for me I didn't experience
1:02:35that but I know this was a problem a lot of people had with the phone yeah so I
1:02:40would have no problem putting it as a detail I mean because really it didn't
1:02:44add a lot so it was faster it had dual SIM support and better water resistance
1:02:50like that was oh well yeah so the tennis what we maybe maybe we'll feel we would
1:02:55rate the XS Max a little higher because it was bigger? I think the Max is C.
1:03:02But it was still a horrible camera. But we got a bigger screen. But it was bigger.
1:03:06Again. Well we can go C too because it grew bigger than before. Yeah.
1:03:13Yeah, C for the XS Max and D for the XS. Yeah. Because I know that was why I liked
1:03:19this phone particularly, the the Max one, because... Because it was bigger than before. So from
1:03:245.5 to go back to the larger the iPhone tennis max had a I'm trying to find it
1:03:33now and what I wished I wish that Wikipedia had like consistent ways that
1:03:39they mark this information 5.8 and 6.5 for the max yeah okay 6.5 it's a big
1:03:48screen that one Mac tracker baby it's all it's all there oh that's a good idea
1:03:53- Up next we have the iPhone 11.
1:03:57So this is the mainstream phone for this year,
1:03:59starting at 699, 6.1 inch LCD.
1:04:04So the same display as the iPhone XR,
1:04:08but it had dual cameras.
1:04:10So it had the regular wide camera.
1:04:13And then the second camera was, was this the ultra wide?
1:04:18- Yeah, it was the ultra wide on the 11.
1:04:21I feel like, this is anecdotal, but that's all I got.
1:04:26I feel like I didn't see a lot of 10s and 10s's
1:04:31out in the world, but I feel like all of a sudden
1:04:34the 11 was just everywhere.
1:04:36Like even more so than the 10R.
1:04:39- It's because they had a phone at the standard,
1:04:44well, not the standard, it was at a lower price point.
1:04:47- Yeah, 'cause the 10R started at 749
1:04:50and the 11 started at $699.
1:04:52So this was, okay, the mainstream phone
1:04:56now has face ID for realsies.
1:04:58- A13, you mentioned the ultra wide,
1:05:00which was a good thing.
1:05:02It's came in a bunch of great colors,
1:05:03including that purple, that mid-cycle purple.
1:05:06It's a good C-tier phone, I feel like.
1:05:09- Yeah, iPhone 11 C-tier, I think I'm fine with that.
1:05:15I think I had one.
1:05:17I think Sylvia maybe used an iPhone 11.
1:05:19I don't, so the iPhone 11 family still had the
1:05:23curved edges though, right?
1:05:25- Yeah, the last breath of that design.
1:05:29- Yeah, so glass back, but with the curved edges.
1:05:32Yeah, okay.
1:05:33And it came, why do I remember the red version?
1:05:38Was something different about it?
1:05:40That maybe the red version was available
1:05:41at launch this time?
1:05:43- I think so.
1:05:44- I think it was, yeah, 'cause the purple came
1:05:46halfway through.
1:05:48So iPhone 11 Pro and 11 Pro Max.
1:05:52First time that we're seeing the triple camera system.
1:05:57I have a lot of fond memories for the 11 Pro Max,
1:06:02because that's the phone that allowed me
1:06:04to do the photographic tour of Rome
1:06:08during the day and at night.
1:06:10The ultra wide camera was,
1:06:14still feels like a great innovation on a phone.
1:06:17Like it's such a fun thing to experiment and some scenes and some subjects they lend themselves very well to the ultra-wide camera.
1:06:28I personally feel like 11 Pro Max is A tier and 11 Pro is B tier.
1:06:36Or also maybe both A tier. I could also go with that. I don't know, what do you guys think?
1:06:41I'm struggling with this one a little bit. But I don't know why.
1:06:46I think maybe I just don't really have a lot of particular feelings about this.
1:06:51I guess I would be happy with A actually, because of the three camera system.
1:06:56The three camera system was a big deal and I don't think that there's any reason to break
1:07:01these up from each other.
1:07:03Right, because these had feature parity between them and the only difference was the size.
1:07:11I mean, we were all, now this is what, three years ago they were talking, so it's 2019,
1:07:19but we all had fun at the time with ultra-wide shots.
1:07:23It was a thing for a while, you know?
1:07:25You're right.
1:07:26Too bad about the curved edges, that's gonna get fixed with the next phones, but yeah,
1:07:338-tier for the 11 Pro and Pro Max, I think it feels good.
1:07:37It's the iPhone 8 design but inside it is it's all new with the A13 Bionic
1:07:47from the iPhone 11. D tier. Stop. Who wants to see this design now? You know what I
1:07:54mean? And this was back in 2020. Silvius MAM has this phone and it looks and
1:08:01feels so old. Like so many things of iOS are now so different, like even the way you activate
1:08:08Control Center. Like using this phone is horrible. And I know because I had to set it up for
1:08:14her with the App Store and Family Sharing and all that kind of stuff. It's a bad phone,
1:08:20it's old. It's like, "Hey, do you want to have this phone that looks like eight years
1:08:24ago? Sure, here you go. No, thank you."
1:08:27We are now up to the iPhone 12 family and I think we go in order of size.
1:08:33So let's start with the 12 mini down at the bottom.
1:08:37I'm gonna go ahead and say honorary A tier just because a ton of people love it.
1:08:44And those who have one...
1:08:47I don't want to get the tweets.
1:08:49I just so we might as well just do it because I you know every iPhone 12 user will speak
1:08:55about the mini, we'll speak about the mini, like all five of them, like they will all
1:09:00tweet you, you know?
1:09:01Look, they love it.
1:09:02And I just don't want to get those five tweets.
1:09:03Yeah, let them love it.
1:09:04I mean, because they're about to get real sad, right?
1:09:06So like we might as well just let them have it.
1:09:08Yes, exactly.
1:09:10They're about to get, they're going to have a rough second half of the year, I think.
1:09:15So let's just give it the A tier.
1:09:17Give them something, you know?
1:09:19Yeah.
1:09:20iPhone 12.
1:09:21I mean, so all these phones, we should, so we should back up.
1:09:22All these phones have the flat sided design.
1:09:26The mini and the regular have aluminum.
1:09:28Where the Profones have steel bands.
1:09:30I actually think the aluminum looks better, but even though I carry a Profone, I think
1:09:36the look is nicer with the aluminum.
1:09:39All of these are OLED, so LCD is officially out of the line for new phones now, which
1:09:46I think it's great that they were able to bring this across the entire
1:09:51lineup. The 12, I think is probably
1:09:56B or C. I feel like it's not...
1:10:00Oh, I put it as an A tier.
1:10:01Really? The regular 12?
1:10:03The 12?
1:10:03Yeah. OLED on the regular phone is awesome.
1:10:09MagSafe?
1:10:10Yeah. Yeah. MagSafe. The colors were also pretty good.
1:10:14- Yep.
1:10:15- And I think you were confused.
1:10:17I think the purple was mid-cycle on the 12, not the 11.
1:10:21- Okay.
1:10:22- Yeah. - Whatever.
1:10:23HDR video?
1:10:25- Yeah.
1:10:26- On the base model 12?
1:10:28- Yeah.
1:10:29- Oh, that was a pretty good phone.
1:10:31- Yeah. - Yeah, this is a great phone.
1:10:32- So B, A or B?
1:10:34- I would put it as an A tier phone.
1:10:36- And yeah, it feels like one.
1:10:3812 Pro and 12 Pro Max.
1:10:39So if I remember this correctly.
1:10:43- S tier.
1:10:44the 12 Pro Max marked the return of the feature differences
1:10:49between the Pro Max camera and the Pro camera.
1:10:54- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:10:56I mean, it didn't end up being as big a deal
1:10:58as we thought it was going to be.
1:10:59- But it was something.
1:11:00- But it was something.
1:11:02- What was it?
1:11:03- 'Cause they had the big sensor,
1:11:05the big sensor in the Pro Max.
1:11:06- That's right.
1:11:07So Myke, you said S tier for both.
1:11:10- I think the iPhone 12 is the best iPhone ever made.
1:11:13like the 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max.
1:11:15- Why not the 13 Pro?
1:11:17- 'Cause I think that the 12 Pro was so striking,
1:11:21like so awesome looking and had this great set of features.
1:11:24And then the 13 just kind of like added to it.
1:11:26Like, you know, like when you think about the best ever,
1:11:28like you, as we're talking about it here,
1:11:30sometimes you got to put in a bit of history, right?
1:11:32Where like the 13 is really just a small improvement
1:11:35over the 12, but like the 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max,
1:11:415G, LiDAR, LiDAR I don't care about.
1:11:455G is actually a good feature, like if you have it.
1:11:49MagSafe, it got the incredible gold,
1:11:54which I just think is the best looking phone ever.
1:11:57I could S tier both of these.
1:11:58I think that the 12 line is an S tier line of phones.
1:12:02I just think they nailed it.
1:12:04I'm trying to remember now, because in my mind,
1:12:07the 12 Pro and 13 Pro lines kind of blend together because of the pandemic.
1:12:12Yes.
1:12:14But now that you mentioned it, I do feel like I prefer the 12 Pro, if only because it was striking
1:12:24at the time. Because in my mind, it's kind of weird, but in my mind, I still have the 12 Pro Max,
1:12:31but no, I have the 13 Pro Max, which is also saying something, I guess.
1:12:36But yeah, I can go with that.
1:12:39S tier, both of them.
1:12:41I just think this is a fantastic phone.
1:12:43Like, I love it.
1:12:44Like, this is the only phone for me where I was like,
1:12:47the whole time I had it, I'm like, this just still continues to look good.
1:12:51Yeah.
1:12:52Like, I took the case off and I became caseless
1:12:54because I love the look of this phone so much, you know?
1:12:57And again, when the iPhone 13 Pro rolled around and it looked the same,
1:13:00I was fine with it because I thought that the phone looked so good.
1:13:04Like, I think it's the best looking phone Apple's ever made.
1:13:08It's, and I, for me, it's like very tippy top.
1:13:12Look at that, that's look nice without a case.
1:13:14So what, where does that leave the 13 line?
1:13:19We've got mini, regular, pro and pro max.
1:13:22So better cameras, better processor, but not really game changing.
1:13:29Slightly smaller notch?
1:13:31Yeah, very slightly smaller notch.
1:13:34Yeah.
1:13:35What else is new?
1:13:37A15.
1:13:38Yeah, okay, whatever.
1:13:39A15.
1:13:41The 13 Pro, right?
1:13:44So just to try and break something up.
1:13:45The 13 Pro is a big deal because of promotion,
1:13:48which me and Federico really care about.
1:13:50Steven, not so much.
1:13:51Yeah, I've got it turned off.
1:13:52Yeah, yes, yes.
1:13:54The 13 is good.
1:13:56Like, it's a good improvement.
1:13:58like I would say so if because I think to rank these we might have to do them a little bit out of
1:14:01order if you don't mind like I think yes 13 pro and 13 pro max are A tier yes I think I know where
1:14:08you're going yeah the iphone 13 yeah B tier yes and 13 mini C tier C tier because like they I think
1:14:19they all just go down yeah yeah perfect perfect the last phone we have on here is the iphone se
1:14:25third generation which is not on this list yeah there's another one wait
1:14:30there's another one it got 5g d-tier goodbye honestly the fact that it's not
1:14:38in this screenshot is perfect because like it doesn't even deserve to be on
1:14:42the list it's just like whatever man you do you so d-tier yeah it's d-tier yeah
1:14:48that would be d-tier we have now reached the final form of this tier list in in S
1:14:55S tier, let's see how we feel about this again.
1:14:59Original iPhone, iPhone 4, iPhone 6S Plus,
1:15:04iPhone 10, iPhone 12 Pro, and iPhone 12 Pro Max.
1:15:09- I think we got that completely correct.
1:15:11- Yeah, yeah.
1:15:12I feel like I'm looking at the thumbnails.
1:15:16I feel like, especially if you consider the 12 Pro
1:15:20and Pro Max the same phone,
1:15:22Each of them represents a major shift in the iPhone history.
1:15:27Original iPhone, iPhone 4, 6S Plus,
1:15:31and the Plus is specifically because we mentioned
1:15:34the performance issues of the S Plus the year prior,
1:15:38the X, and then the 12 Pro.
1:15:41Yeah, I feel very good about this.
1:15:42And in D tier, let's go to the opposite end of the spectrum.
1:15:47In D tier, we have the iPhone 7, the iPhone 8,
1:15:51the iPhone 8 Plus, the XS, the ST second generation,
1:15:56and the ST third generation.
1:16:00- So I think the biggest spread we have
1:16:03is seven to seven plus, right?
1:16:05- Yeah.
1:16:05- Because seven is D, seven plus is A.
1:16:09I don't think we have a bigger-
1:16:11- Look, these phones in D tier, they had it coming.
1:16:14If they didn't wanna be in D tier,
1:16:16they maybe shouldn't have been boring phones.
1:16:19But yeah, especially the iPhone 8, man.
1:16:22The iPhone 8 is rough.
1:16:24I'm sorry, you know, iPhone 8 owners.
1:16:28I guess you like it, but it's not a good phone.
1:16:31- Something we didn't mention about like why the XS Max
1:16:35is very firmly in C tier is its name.
1:16:39- XS Max.
1:16:41- XS Max?
1:16:42That is a terrible name for a phone.
1:16:44These are the phones that we knew about
1:16:49with the leak from Apple's CDN, right?
1:16:52925 Mac found the images and the names before.
1:16:56And people said, "Surely that's not the name."
1:17:00Surely they're not calling it iPhone XS Max.
1:17:04'Cause these were the images
1:17:05where they obscured the notch.
1:17:07Yes.
1:17:08They had like the swooping black wallpaper.
1:17:11Yeah, it was like a planet, right?
1:17:12Like they had like different planets on them
1:17:14and it took up, was it that one?
1:17:16And it took up like half the screen
1:17:17or is it, I'm thinking of a different one.
1:17:19- I think so.
1:17:20- They did that for a while.
1:17:21They don't seem to really do that anymore
1:17:22which I think is the right move.
1:17:24- Let's do one more thing.
1:17:27If you guys will allow me here.
1:17:29Look at the S tier and each of us,
1:17:32we pick an absolute favorite from the S tier.
1:17:37- I mean, I've already spoiled mine.
1:17:38It's the 12 Pro Max.
1:17:39- 12 Pro Max?
1:17:40- It is the happiest I have been with an iPhone
1:17:42since the original.
1:17:44And like the original, I was happy because it was the first one,
1:17:48but like the 12 Pro Max just gave me everything I was looking for.
1:17:53I was so excited except for the promotion display,
1:17:56but that wasn't enough of a knock. Like that was on the edge that year.
1:17:59Uh, I'm going to go with the,
1:18:02I'm torn between the 6S Plus and the 10. I'm going to go with the 10.
1:18:06I just love that thing so much.
1:18:08I agree. I'm going to go with the 10 as well.
1:18:10It really felt like the future, didn't it? It was awesome.
1:18:12It felt so cool.
1:18:15And it was the first time in a long time
1:18:18where the phone was really exciting.
1:18:22Because the 6S and the 7, a lot of it was the design,
1:18:26I think, with the aluminum back
1:18:28and the antenna lines and stuff.
1:18:29But yeah, the X felt like the future.
1:18:31I mean, using Face ID felt so cool.
1:18:34- It felt impossible, really.
1:18:35It felt like we were not supposed to get the phone
1:18:38for another two years, but we got it.
1:18:41And so, yeah.
1:18:42Man, it looks so good in white too, with the stainless steel.
1:18:45- Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm.
1:18:46Chef Kiss. - I think I had the black one.
1:18:48I think I had the black one, which was kind of brown.
1:18:51Right, was that the one that was brown,
1:18:52or was it the 10S that was kind of a brownie color?
1:18:54- That was the stupid 10S that also looked brown.
1:18:57(laughing)
1:18:58- It was like chocolatey brown.
1:19:00Yeah, it was weird.
1:19:01But you can see an image of our ranked tier list.
1:19:05I've got a screenshot.
1:19:06In the show notes, if you want to find links
1:19:08to stuff we spoke about, head on over to the website,
1:19:11relay.fm/connected/404.
1:19:15Links are also in your podcast player.
1:19:18Find them in there.
1:19:19When you're on the website though,
1:19:20you can send us an email with feedback or follow up,
1:19:22or you can join and get Connected Pro,
1:19:24which is a longer ad-free version of the show
1:19:27each and every week.
1:19:29You can find us all online.
1:19:30You can find Federico on Twitter as Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I,
1:19:35and he's the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net.
1:19:39You can find Myke online as I-M-Y-K-E.
1:19:42And Myke hosts a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM.
1:19:46You can follow me on Twitter as ISMH
1:19:48and find my writing at 512pixels.net.
1:19:51I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,
1:19:53Pocket Casts, Sourcegraph and Elektrik.
1:19:57Until next time guys, say goodbye.
1:20:00Arrivederci.
1:20:01- Cheerio.