Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 401.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Bombas, Indeed,

00:00:15 ◼   ► CleanMyMac X and iodine.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke and I am joined by Federico.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hi Federico.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - Hello Myke.

00:00:22 ◼   ► - I think I forgot my surname for a second there.

00:00:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:26 ◼   ► - Your name is Myke.

00:00:27 ◼   ► You know, look, it's fine.

00:00:29 ◼   ► - Your name is Myke. - I'm just Myke.

00:00:30 ◼   ► - And that's all we need to know about.

00:00:33 ◼   ► We are also joined from a man who used to be in Tennessee,

00:00:38 ◼   ► is now in California.

00:00:42 ◼   ► His name is Steven.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Welcome to the show, Steven.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Also no last name for you. - No last name.

00:00:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:48 ◼   ► Hello Federico, hello Myke.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Greetings from sunny San Jose.

00:00:52 ◼   ► - I'm in San Jose too.

00:00:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it's not sunny where you are.

00:00:56 ◼   ► That doesn't make any sense.

00:00:58 ◼   ► you're inside.

00:00:59 ◼   ► Quick, quick question for you.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Quick question for you.

00:01:02 ◼   ► Give us one fun fact about California.

00:01:05 ◼   ► I've gotten five COVID note of exposure notifications since landing.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Fun fact.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:01:12 ◼   ► We don't have that system in my state.

00:01:14 ◼   ► And so I landed and my phone was like, "Hey bud, you want to turn this on?"

00:01:18 ◼   ► And I said, "Yes, please."

00:01:20 ◼   ► And boys, it's stressful.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Do you now wish you hadn't?

00:01:24 ◼   ► Kind of.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:26 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:28 ◼   ► - Well.

00:01:28 ◼   ► - Should we address the weird fish in the room?

00:01:32 ◼   ► - There's a huge update to 512pixels.net/DoesMykeHaveCOVID.

00:01:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:39 ◼   ► - Do you remember when we did this?

00:01:41 ◼   ► Do you remember this and why we did this?

00:01:44 ◼   ► Like this was webpage.

00:01:46 ◼   ► - Oh, because you had a cold.

00:01:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause you felt bad and you tested negative

00:01:49 ◼   ► when we all thought you had COVID, turns out.

00:01:51 ◼   ► - Wasn't it the episode where I sprayed

00:01:53 ◼   ► the thing in my nose?

00:01:54 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah. We convinced you.

00:02:02 ◼   ► Well, I've been doing a lot of spraying because what you'll find out is yes, Myke has really

00:02:07 ◼   ► big COVID, serious COVID. I tested positive upon arrival in San Jose, which is awesome

00:02:13 ◼   ► for everyone except me. I've been stuck in my hotel room. I very much have COVID. I am

00:02:21 ◼   ► not in a good physical space right now, but here I am.

00:02:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm so sorry.

00:02:28 ◼   ► I mean-

00:02:29 ◼   ► - It's been a really, really tough couple of days,

00:02:32 ◼   ► more emotionally than physically,

00:02:34 ◼   ► but this is where I am in my life.

00:02:37 ◼   ► - But hey, look at it this way.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Next year or in two years, three years, like in the future,

00:02:44 ◼   ► you look back on this and it'll be a story.

00:02:46 ◼   ► - So I've been thinking about it a lot.

00:02:48 ◼   ► This is a great story.

00:02:49 ◼   ► This is one of the all time stories.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Yes.

00:02:52 ◼   ► I'm aware of this and I know I'm living in it right now, right?

00:02:55 ◼   ► Right now it's not so good.

00:02:57 ◼   ► It sucks now.

00:02:58 ◼   ► No, I know it sucks now.

00:03:00 ◼   ► But these moments, you gotta withstand what's going on right now.

00:03:07 ◼   ► You gotta be strong, hold strong.

00:03:08 ◼   ► It'll pass and then it'll become a story.

00:03:12 ◼   ► And then you'll be the guy that other people will say,

00:03:14 ◼   ► "Hey, you know, I know a guy who actually lived in California."

00:03:17 ◼   ► Like, that's a perfect story, but I'm sorry right now.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Yeah, it's bad right now. Great story.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Because we're always going to talk about it, right?

00:03:25 ◼   ► In like five years time, we'll be like, "Oh, do you remember the first WWDC when I got co--"

00:03:30 ◼   ► Like, I'm aware of this and like, you know, I've got the story.

00:03:34 ◼   ► The story I would prefer to have is, do you remember that time when I went to Apple Park

00:03:39 ◼   ► and then went to Steve Jobs Theater and sold them--

00:03:41 ◼   ► Like, I would prefer that story, like, right now.

00:03:44 ◼   ► But maybe in a few years time, you know, this will be a fun story.

00:03:50 ◼   ► But right now, well, it's always going to be a fun story for other people, including right now, you know.

00:03:56 ◼   ► But for me, it's not so much.

00:03:58 ◼   ► It's not so much fun. I mean, I had gone to bed because you flew out the day before me.

00:04:03 ◼   ► And I had gone to bed, you texted me overnight, and I woke up early because my flight was at like 7am.

00:04:08 ◼   ► and the first thing on my phone was a text message from you with just a photo.

00:04:13 ◼   ► I won't say what the text message said, but...

00:04:16 ◼   ► I mean, you could say it, but it's editing work for you.

00:04:19 ◼   ► It was upsetting.

00:04:20 ◼   ► It's a lot of bad words.

00:04:22 ◼   ► Mary was kind of like halfway awake.

00:04:24 ◼   ► She was driving me to the airport, and then I said some things out loud.

00:04:27 ◼   ► She's like, "Wait, what happened?"

00:04:28 ◼   ► And I told her, and yeah, it's so heartbreaking.

00:04:31 ◼   ► I did wave at you from across a courtyard.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Yep, Stephen was going to throw a tub of sour cream at me.

00:04:36 ◼   ► I just want everyone to know that he was threatening to do that.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, because you needed some, y'all, I think some other people got new groceries

00:04:44 ◼   ► and you were like, "Oh, can you get me some sour cream when you go?"

00:04:46 ◼   ► I thought of like rolling it across the courtyard.

00:04:48 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm so sorry.

00:04:50 ◼   ► And I really wanted this to be your first year since this, you know, this new format.

00:04:57 ◼   ► But there is always next year.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And everyone, I will say...

00:05:01 ◼   ► I mean, who knows at this point?

00:05:03 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:05:04 ◼   ► Like, who knows what's gonna happen to me?

00:05:05 ◼   ► I will say every single person who has stopped me

00:05:09 ◼   ► like at Apple Park or around, every single person is like,

00:05:13 ◼   ► please tell Myke I'm so sorry.

00:05:15 ◼   ► And so a lot of people feel bad

00:05:18 ◼   ► and I hope you feel better soon.

00:05:21 ◼   ► I know you've got to work out like when to go home, but--

00:05:24 ◼   ► I don't know what I'm doing anymore.

00:05:26 ◼   ► You may just live in California for a bit.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Well, I'm supposed to be here until Monday.

00:05:32 ◼   ► We weren't leaving until Monday.

00:05:34 ◼   ► But now I don't know.

00:05:35 ◼   ► It's all very complicated.

00:05:37 ◼   ► There's like, what is legal and what is right?

00:05:40 ◼   ► Like, I think legally I can just get on a plane.

00:05:43 ◼   ► You don't have to test to go back to the UK.

00:05:45 ◼   ► - But you shouldn't do that.

00:05:46 ◼   ► - Exactly, right?

00:05:47 ◼   ► So like, plus I don't think I could do that right now.

00:05:52 ◼   ► - Oh, this is a very fascinating ethical question.

00:05:54 ◼   ► - It is, right?

00:05:55 ◼   ► - Like if something is right for you,

00:05:58 ◼   ► should it also be legal in a broader sense

00:06:00 ◼   ► like you as a person in society. We can't get into that today, we're too busy. No, no,

00:06:05 ◼   ► let's push everything to the side and dig into this a little bit, you know. I will say as well,

00:06:11 ◼   ► like again for connected listeners to passionate ones, because you mentioned it Steven, like

00:06:15 ◼   ► it has been absolutely overwhelming the reaction that I've been getting. You know, I was a little

00:06:23 ◼   ► bit nervous to post that tweet, right? Like there is a non-amount of shame with coronavirus,

00:06:30 ◼   ► right? When you get it you're like, "Oh man, I done messed up," right? And it feels weird,

00:06:37 ◼   ► but it has been... The amount of tweets that I've gotten from listeners who understand why this is

00:06:44 ◼   ► so emotionally devastating to me, it's been quite an emotional couple of days for that too. So thank

00:06:51 ◼   ► you to everybody that's been so nice to me. So let's move on. We have some follow-up from

00:06:58 ◼   ► from Wikipedia editor Jason.

00:07:00 ◼   ► And I'm gonna read this because it is amazing.

00:07:03 ◼   ► In 2019, the connected host had a remarkably successful year

00:07:07 ◼   ► with perfect scores all around in the main game,

00:07:09 ◼   ► which I had forgotten.

00:07:10 ◼   ► I forgot that we all went three for three.

00:07:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was when we had to institute

00:07:14 ◼   ► the incredibly complicated system of coin flipping.

00:07:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh yeah.

00:07:17 ◼   ► - We had to do the three way coin flip path,

00:07:19 ◼   ► which is where we found out Jason can't flip.

00:07:21 ◼   ► - Yes, however, Steven was forced to buy a round of drinks

00:07:24 ◼   ► due to his incorrect, not graded,

00:07:27 ◼   ► but actually kind of graded picks.

00:07:28 ◼   ► which was like the old version of the flexies.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Those pics were new modern features for mail

00:07:34 ◼   ► and iCloud photo sharing for families.

00:07:37 ◼   ► Jason goes on, "Well, I'm happy to say

00:07:39 ◼   ► that Steven has now been vindicated after 1,097 days.

00:07:43 ◼   ► Both of his incorrect pics have come true.

00:07:45 ◼   ► This is amazing.

00:07:46 ◼   ► As a result, the 2019 WWDC game is the first

00:07:51 ◼   ► to have all of its pics conclusively answered."

00:07:55 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:07:56 ◼   ► - That's wild.

00:07:57 ◼   ► I can't believe that has ever happened, right?

00:08:00 ◼   ► Like, I know, obviously it's happened,

00:08:02 ◼   ► but that seems such a weird thing to me

00:08:04 ◼   ► that we ever have gotten to a place

00:08:06 ◼   ► where every pick could come true,

00:08:09 ◼   ► especially with some of the stuff we pick these days.

00:08:11 ◼   ► Yeah, so I thought that was amazing.

00:08:13 ◼   ► Jason, thank you for pointing that out.

00:08:15 ◼   ► That has made my day.

00:08:16 ◼   ► Wow, that's so cool.

00:08:18 ◼   ► Congratulations.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Did you ever buy those drinks?

00:08:21 ◼   ► I don't think you did.

00:08:22 ◼   ► Probably not.

00:08:23 ◼   ► No, I don't think you did.

00:08:24 ◼   ► I don't remember that happening.

00:08:26 ◼   ► I think that was why we turned it into charity, because you wouldn't buy this alcohol.

00:08:30 ◼   ► Maybe, maybe.

00:08:31 ◼   ► How did I get the risky pick? I'm looking at this 2019 prediction. Apple will bring

00:08:38 ◼   ► back some kind of app list or launcher UI element on iPad.

00:08:43 ◼   ► App library. Was that 19?

00:08:47 ◼   ► No, it wasn't 19.

00:08:50 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:08:51 ◼   ► Why did I get this point?

00:08:53 ◼   ► Don't question it too much.

00:08:54 ◼   ► I'm sure that I begged for it. I mean, knowing me.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Yeah, we were not as stringent then, right? With the way that we grade.

00:09:01 ◼   ► So we were letting things fly left, right and center.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Oh, okay. As Jason said, that was when you threatened to call the police.

00:09:08 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:09:09 ◼   ► That episode was wild.

00:09:12 ◼   ► I actually dialed 911 on my phone in front of you guys.

00:09:16 ◼   ► And I had to take your phone away from you, which upset people.

00:09:19 ◼   ► We had a couple of listeners that were upset that I took your phone away from you,

00:09:23 ◼   ► because like for some reason they think I shouldn't do that but what people need

00:09:26 ◼   ► to understand is we were doing a live show and Federico was actually calling

00:09:29 ◼   ► the police which is a crime so I don't really know what people want from me

00:09:35 ◼   ► yeah what was it the 20s for 2019 there was a US 12 huh should we just move on

00:09:45 ◼   ► We should move on so a collection of

00:09:49 ◼   ► WDC follow out

00:09:51 ◼   ► There's a bunch of shows on relay and in the max stories extended universe

00:09:56 ◼   ► Being recorded this week so far

00:09:59 ◼   ► There's an MP you up that David and I did yesterday live from Apple parks like podcast setup, which is really cool

00:10:06 ◼   ► There's upgrade episode 410

00:10:09 ◼   ► Federico you and John did a

00:10:12 ◼   ► App stories episode 277 your response to the keynote you guys have another one coming

00:10:18 ◼   ► That I don't know if you want to tell people they go every day man app stories just like daily

00:10:23 ◼   ► Yeah, daily daily stories. I found the Ventura wallpapers

00:10:27 ◼   ► So those are up over on 512 pixels if you want some of that tasty new tasty new wallpaper

00:10:33 ◼   ► Oh, you know why I got the point though. Hey, we got he's been doing this the whole time. Yes, we listen to anything

00:10:38 ◼   ► No, I listened to all of that. I got the point because they did the new window picker for

00:10:49 ◼   ► multitasking in iPadOS 13, Expose. They did Expose for Windows and I convinced you guys

00:10:57 ◼   ► that that was worth considering a new app launcher for iPad.

00:11:02 ◼   ► I don't think I'd agree with that now. No, we wouldn't.

00:11:08 ◼   ► - No, I still agree.

00:11:08 ◼   ► - But it's in the past, you know?

00:11:10 ◼   ► - It's in the past, it's in the past.

00:11:12 ◼   ► - Maybe if you throw it into the police,

00:11:13 ◼   ► we still would, you know?

00:11:15 ◼   ► - We'll see about that, we'll see about that.

00:11:17 ◼   ► - So Steven, did you have a nice experience yesterday?

00:11:20 ◼   ► - I really did, so...

00:11:22 ◼   ► - Good.

00:11:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's it, that was great.

00:11:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:11:26 ◼   ► - Five out of five.

00:11:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, 100%, Gold Star, Tim Cook.

00:11:29 ◼   ► No, it was really cool.

00:11:30 ◼   ► So, a lot of developers, way more people here

00:11:34 ◼   ► than I thought they would be.

00:11:35 ◼   ► And the media group was like pretty much

00:11:38 ◼   ► who you would expect to see.

00:11:39 ◼   ► It felt like a pretty normal sized media group.

00:11:41 ◼   ► It's always funny 'cause it's like us

00:11:43 ◼   ► and then like the guys from the Verge

00:11:45 ◼   ► who are like a little more real than we are.

00:11:47 ◼   ► And then there's like, I was next to like

00:11:48 ◼   ► an associated press photographer at one point.

00:11:50 ◼   ► It was like, what is he doing here?

00:11:53 ◼   ► But yeah, so we went into Apple Park,

00:11:58 ◼   ► like through the gate and where,

00:12:03 ◼   ► I'm sure everyone's seen photos by now,

00:12:04 ◼   ► But the stage was outside of the ring

00:12:07 ◼   ► and the crowd was kind of sitting

00:12:09 ◼   ► and like we were pretty far back.

00:12:11 ◼   ► We were in the shade where Cafe Max is at Apple Park.

00:12:15 ◼   ► The full height glass doors open up,

00:12:18 ◼   ► which like the scale of this building is so hard to explain.

00:12:21 ◼   ► Like it's like seeing the curvature of the earth almost.

00:12:24 ◼   ► Like it never ends, it's so huge.

00:12:27 ◼   ► And so the seating was back into Cafe Max

00:12:30 ◼   ► and the media section was a couple of floors up

00:12:33 ◼   ► overlooking Cafe Max, but no one actually went to the inside

00:12:37 ◼   ► part of the ring. And now that I've seen it, I understand why

00:12:41 ◼   ► it was never going to work in there. That is really heavily

00:12:46 ◼   ► wooded. There are tons of trees and plants and like picnic

00:12:51 ◼   ► tables and stuff all inside that area. I think the clear spot

00:12:55 ◼   ► where the rainbow stages is not nearly as big as I thought it

00:12:58 ◼   ► was. And so I think they found a way to let people into Apple

00:13:02 ◼   ► Park, but not like all the way through the building. But it was

00:13:06 ◼   ► it really was just amazing to see it. I mean, the

00:13:08 ◼   ► architecture and the landscaping, I sent my wife a

00:13:11 ◼   ► bunch of photos. She is a really big like state and National Park

00:13:16 ◼   ► fan, like she loves nature and plants and landscaping and

00:13:20 ◼   ► stuff. I sent her a ton of photos like I was I was telling

00:13:24 ◼   ► Marco he and I were walking together and I was like, if you

00:13:27 ◼   ► just sat us down here, like you would never know that you were

00:13:30 ◼   ► at the headquarters for like the world's most

00:13:33 ◼   ► like valuable corporation.

00:13:35 ◼   ► 'Cause it's just like a beautiful place to be.

00:13:37 ◼   ► And so we watched the keynote and the screen was amazing.

00:13:42 ◼   ► The sound was amazing.

00:13:43 ◼   ► We were pretty far back.

00:13:44 ◼   ► We could still see really well.

00:13:45 ◼   ► Could hear the audio was incredible.

00:13:47 ◼   ► And then after the keynote,

00:13:49 ◼   ► the media were escorted up the hill to Steve Jobs Theater,

00:13:55 ◼   ► which again is outside of the rings.

00:13:56 ◼   ► Actually kind of far away from the building.

00:13:59 ◼   ► and we got hands on time with the MacBook Air.

00:14:01 ◼   ► And that, the Steve Jobs theater,

00:14:05 ◼   ► like the photos do not do it justice.

00:14:08 ◼   ► It is this glass building with this roof.

00:14:11 ◼   ► There are no visible supports.

00:14:14 ◼   ► And there's been a lot of writing

00:14:15 ◼   ► about the construction of this building,

00:14:16 ◼   ► like how all the conduit and electrical and stuff

00:14:18 ◼   ► is like in the seams between the glass.

00:14:21 ◼   ► But it seems like an impossible feat.

00:14:23 ◼   ► Now we didn't get to go downstairs.

00:14:25 ◼   ► It was all on the ground level, but it really was beautiful.

00:14:28 ◼   ► It was really a treat.

00:14:30 ◼   ► None of us knew we were gonna get to do that.

00:14:33 ◼   ► And it was cool to be in there.

00:14:35 ◼   ► The new MacBook Air is really impressive.

00:14:37 ◼   ► Maybe we can talk about that later.

00:14:38 ◼   ► But the whole experience was just amazing on Apple Park.

00:14:42 ◼   ► And then you have this whole thing across the street,

00:14:44 ◼   ► the developer center,

00:14:46 ◼   ► which I've been in a couple of times now.

00:14:48 ◼   ► And it's built for Apple to interface with developers

00:14:51 ◼   ► throughout the year.

00:14:51 ◼   ► And I don't know if even they know exactly

00:14:55 ◼   ► what that will look like.

00:14:56 ◼   ► it feels like a building built for a world without COVID

00:14:59 ◼   ► a little bit, honestly.

00:15:01 ◼   ► But they have multiple rooms set up with labs, with IMAX,

00:15:04 ◼   ► where you can bring a developer and a designer

00:15:06 ◼   ► in to work on something.

00:15:07 ◼   ► They've got workshopping rooms.

00:15:09 ◼   ► And then down the center of the building,

00:15:11 ◼   ► they have what they call back a house,

00:15:13 ◼   ► which is what they call it in the Apple store,

00:15:15 ◼   ► where Apple employees can like move

00:15:17 ◼   ► in between the workshop rooms from behind them.

00:15:21 ◼   ► And they can manage the IT and the AV

00:15:23 ◼   ► in each of the rooms from like the central corridor.

00:15:25 ◼   ► really impressive. And I think that we are seeing Apple move to a position where they

00:15:30 ◼   ► want to be in more constant contact with developers and, and be just more communicative, communicative

00:15:39 ◼   ► throughout the year. And that's only a good thing, I think. And like talking to underscore

00:15:44 ◼   ► about it, and they're gonna talk about this on the under the radar that will come out.

00:15:48 ◼   ► He's really excited about it and really impressed that the money Apple has spent doing this.

00:15:52 ◼   ► And I think that we will see the benefits of that moving forward.

00:15:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I really want to see that place too.

00:15:58 ◼   ► I would say the thing I was most jealous about yesterday was you going into the Steve Ross

00:16:03 ◼   ► Theatre.

00:16:04 ◼   ► That place just looks so awesome.

00:16:05 ◼   ► It just looks so awesome.

00:16:06 ◼   ► Plus, we have a conception of it.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Everything else, it looked really nice, but I haven't seen it enough.

00:16:12 ◼   ► I don't understand it, like Jefe Maxx and stuff, but the Steve Ross Theatre, it's like,

00:16:16 ◼   ► "Oh, we see it all the time."

00:16:17 ◼   ► The presentation's done from there.

00:16:20 ◼   ► It looked really cool.

00:16:21 ◼   ► It looked really, really awesome.

00:16:22 ◼   ► Yeah, it was.

00:16:23 ◼   ► And yeah, I mean, that's kind of been what we've been up to.

00:16:28 ◼   ► It's only a day really.

00:16:29 ◼   ► I mean, it was yesterday, June 6th,

00:16:31 ◼   ► that was the majority of it.

00:16:33 ◼   ► There's a couple of things today

00:16:34 ◼   ► and depending on like briefings and stuff,

00:16:36 ◼   ► but all in all, I think the experience was really great.

00:16:39 ◼   ► And I think a lot of people,

00:16:41 ◼   ► I think especially developers who were here,

00:16:44 ◼   ► like it's a big deal to be here, right?

00:16:46 ◼   ► And I think, I mean, my educated guess

00:16:50 ◼   ► is that this is what WBC is going to be.

00:16:52 ◼   ► That there will be a small percentage of people

00:16:55 ◼   ► that can come through the lottery and there'll be media

00:16:59 ◼   ► and then the rest will be virtual.

00:17:00 ◼   ► Like I think this is the template moving forward

00:17:02 ◼   ► because it's the best of both worlds

00:17:04 ◼   ► and it lets Apple do it on its own terms, right?

00:17:09 ◼   ► They can still do all the videos in advance.

00:17:12 ◼   ► They're not taking a thousand employees

00:17:14 ◼   ► or 2000 employees to San Jose.

00:17:16 ◼   ► They can do it all just on campus.

00:17:19 ◼   ► I would expect that this is the template from here on out.

00:17:22 ◼   ► - All right, enough with the nice things.

00:17:24 ◼   ► Now say one bad thing.

00:17:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, say a bad thing.

00:17:26 ◼   ► - Say a bad thing.

00:17:27 ◼   ► - One bad thing.

00:17:28 ◼   ► - Say one bad thing about it.

00:17:29 ◼   ► - Come on, there must be one.

00:17:30 ◼   ► - Come on, it's too nice.

00:17:32 ◼   ► Just even a small thing.

00:17:34 ◼   ► - Anything. - Come on.

00:17:35 ◼   ► - Okay, so the, okay.

00:17:37 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:17:38 ◼   ► - The paper towels in the bathroom,

00:17:40 ◼   ► paper towels in the bathroom, really bad.

00:17:42 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:17:43 ◼   ► - Like they tore when you tried taking them out

00:17:45 ◼   ► of the dispenser and like this didn't feel good.

00:17:47 ◼   ► I'm sure they were like eco-friendly or whatever.

00:17:49 ◼   ► - I was gonna say, you know what that is?

00:17:50 ◼   ► That's the environmental nonsense, isn't it?

00:17:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, but yeah, the bathroom itself, pretty sweet.

00:17:57 ◼   ► Paper towels, big thumbs down.

00:17:59 ◼   ► - I'm surprised they're not using like a air dryer thing.

00:18:02 ◼   ► Surely that's even better for the environment.

00:18:03 ◼   ► - I think that spreads germs or something, I don't know.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Don't quote me.

00:18:07 ◼   ► - Hey, look, take it from me, everything spreads germs.

00:18:10 ◼   ► You know?

00:18:11 ◼   ► - That's all right.

00:18:12 ◼   ► - Take it from me, okay?

00:18:13 ◼   ► Germs, they're finding their way, you know?

00:18:15 ◼   ► Germs find a way.

00:18:16 ◼   ► - Big COVID boy.

00:18:17 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Bombas.

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00:19:43 ◼   ► Our thanks to Bombas for the support of the show

00:19:46 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

00:19:47 ◼   ► - I have some quiz questions for you.

00:19:50 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:19:51 ◼   ► - Oh no.

00:19:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:19:53 ◼   ► - You see, you think, you think, oh, he's sick.

00:19:55 ◼   ► He's not gonna do anything with your bra.

00:19:57 ◼   ► - No, we're never safe.

00:19:58 ◼   ► We're never, not even when you're sick.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Come on, man.

00:20:01 ◼   ► You're sick, come on. - You're never safe from me.

00:20:02 ◼   ► - You're sick.

00:20:03 ◼   ► - You're never, like this is the bonus COVID round

00:20:05 ◼   ► of the Connected Quiz.

00:20:07 ◼   ► This is just something you made up. It was never meant to have a bonus.

00:20:12 ◼   ► Federico, I've made all of this up, you know?

00:20:15 ◼   ► Everything I'm doing is made up.

00:20:17 ◼   ► You know? But I have three quiz questions for you today.

00:20:21 ◼   ► And they'll focus on the WWDC keynote, which I'm expecting you've both seen by now.

00:20:27 ◼   ► What color was John Turnus' Apple Watch?

00:20:29 ◼   ► Federico, I'm gonna come to you first.

00:20:31 ◼   ► Oh shit, I have no idea, man.

00:20:35 ◼   ► The Apple Watch or the band?

00:20:37 ◼   ► Here's Apple Watch, the Apple Watch itself.

00:20:39 ◼   ► The device.

00:20:40 ◼   ► I think that they matched, but I want to, yeah, the device itself.

00:20:43 ◼   ► I didn't pay attention.

00:20:45 ◼   ► Of course you didn't.

00:20:46 ◼   ► Do you think I picked the things that you would be paying attention to?

00:20:49 ◼   ► That's too easy.

00:20:50 ◼   ► You said they were matching.

00:20:52 ◼   ► Because what I wanted to do was ask you what color was John Turnus' t-shirt,

00:20:55 ◼   ► but that was too easy because he only ever wears one color of t-shirt.

00:20:58 ◼   ► I don't even know the names of Apple Watch colors.

00:21:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but I just want the like, you tell me what the color is, you know?

00:21:05 ◼   ► You can give me the Apple product name or the actual color closest to that product name. I'll accept both.

00:21:10 ◼   ► No, I actually need to remember which colors it comes in.

00:21:14 ◼   ► Oh...

00:21:14 ◼   ► Hold on, I'm looking at... Like, is there a dark gray one? I don't know.

00:21:18 ◼   ► I don't know. Steven, do you have a guess while Federico's doing whatever he's doing?

00:21:22 ◼   ► You know, I feel like John Ternus and I... We're kind of...

00:21:25 ◼   ► Oh, there's a bunch of colors. Oh my god.

00:21:27 ◼   ► Like, we kind of have similar interests. I'm gonna say he was wearing a titanium Apple Watch.

00:21:32 ◼   ► Okay, Federico, I'm gonna come to you for an answer now, please.

00:21:36 ◼   ► Which one is titanium?

00:21:39 ◼   ► Uhhhhh...

00:21:43 ◼   ► I'm gonna go with titanium as well.

00:21:46 ◼   ► You are correct, he was wearing a blue one.

00:21:48 ◼   ► Which was a surprise to me, that's why I picked this.

00:21:50 ◼   ► I was just surprised he was wearing a blue Apple Watch, but he's wearing a blue Apple Watch.

00:21:55 ◼   ► Question number two. iOS was the longest segment of the keynote.

00:21:59 ◼   ► Which OS was the second longest?

00:22:01 ◼   ► Stephen, I'll ask you first.

00:22:03 ◼   ► 'Cause Federico was supposed to answer the first one first,

00:22:05 ◼   ► but he didn't.

00:22:06 ◼   ► - iPadOS.

00:22:07 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Federico, which--

00:22:10 ◼   ► - Second longest. - Second longest.

00:22:12 ◼   ► - Second longest.

00:22:13 ◼   ► iPadOS.

00:22:18 ◼   ► TV.

00:22:19 ◼   ► - TV OS is negative.

00:22:20 ◼   ► iPadOS, you're both wrong, it was macOS.

00:22:23 ◼   ► macOS took 19 minutes and 20 seconds of the keynote.

00:22:26 ◼   ► iPadOS is 15 minutes, 25.

00:22:29 ◼   ► - Geez.

00:22:30 ◼   ► - Right?

00:22:31 ◼   ► Surprising, huh? In Mac OS they spoke about a lot of stuff that came to iOS, iPad OS, right?

00:22:37 ◼   ► Like stage management stuff was all in the Mac OS segment.

00:22:39 ◼   ► Last question.

00:22:42 ◼   ► You both have to text your answers to me.

00:22:44 ◼   ► Name two of the new watch faces.

00:22:47 ◼   ► Oh boy.

00:22:49 ◼   ► If so, I'm asking for two-

00:22:51 ◼   ► Do I have to text them to you?

00:22:52 ◼   ► You have to text me the answers. Apple are calling three watch faces new.

00:22:57 ◼   ► I want the names of those new ones. I want two of them.

00:23:01 ◼   ► but I will give a point to the person who gets the most correct.

00:23:04 ◼   ► So if one of you only gets one of them right, right?

00:23:07 ◼   ► Because so far, you've both scored nothing.

00:23:10 ◼   ► So I kind of want someone to have a point at least today.

00:23:14 ◼   ► Okay, I'm typing.

00:23:16 ◼   ► I texted them to you. I don't know though.

00:23:19 ◼   ► Okay, so they're two that you've given me, Federico, right?

00:23:23 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. Okay.

00:23:25 ◼   ► Steven wins.

00:23:26 ◼   ► So Federico, you sent to me Metropolitan and Gradient,

00:23:29 ◼   ► Apple on their website don't have gradient listed as one of the new ones. But Steven

00:23:35 ◼   ► sent to me lunar calendar, playtime, and metropolitan. Playtime and metropolitan are two of the ones

00:23:40 ◼   ► listed. I don't know if lunar calendar is the name of that one. That's like one of the

00:23:45 ◼   ► refresh ones. But Steven got two. No, lunar's new. No, no, no. Astronomy is redone. Hey,

00:23:50 ◼   ► I'm going, you go to Apple's website. You go to Apple's website. That's what I said.

00:23:55 ◼   ► - No, no, no, dude, listen, I'm gonna read to you.

00:23:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, you tell me.

00:23:59 ◼   ► - Did I make up a gradient watch face?

00:24:01 ◼   ► - No, it's been around, I think.

00:24:02 ◼   ► - Did I do this? - They have had it for a while.

00:24:04 ◼   ► They changed it up a bit.

00:24:05 ◼   ► - WatchOS 9 introduces four new faces,

00:24:08 ◼   ► lunar, playtime, metropolitan, and astronomy.

00:24:13 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, I believe you,

00:24:16 ◼   ► but when I went to the website today, it was three,

00:24:18 ◼   ► but it doesn't matter anyway.

00:24:19 ◼   ► - I'm reading the press release.

00:24:20 ◼   ► - Oh, but I'm not looking at the press release.

00:24:22 ◼   ► So I went to Apple's watch page, the watch OS page, right?

00:24:26 ◼   ► You go down and it says,

00:24:28 ◼   ► "New watch faces to help you face today.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Introducing Metropolitan, blah, blah, blah, blah,

00:24:33 ◼   ► Playtime, blah, blah, blah, blah, and Astronomy."

00:24:35 ◼   ► So they only have three.

00:24:36 ◼   ► - So they don't list them. - And then they have more.

00:24:38 ◼   ► They have Luna, it's like a separate thing.

00:24:39 ◼   ► You're right.

00:24:40 ◼   ► I wasn't paying enough attention.

00:24:42 ◼   ► However, that, you still get the point.

00:24:44 ◼   ► Simon got the point, 'cause he named the most correct.

00:24:46 ◼   ► - I feel like I get three points.

00:24:48 ◼   ► - No, you get one point. - Okay.

00:24:50 ◼   ► - And now this has done something

00:24:51 ◼   ► that has not been done so far.

00:24:53 ◼   ► Steven is now in the lead with 12 points

00:24:55 ◼   ► to Federico's 11 points.

00:24:57 ◼   ► - We're finally not tied.

00:24:59 ◼   ► - Finally, the tie has been broken.

00:25:02 ◼   ► Steven is currently leading.

00:25:04 ◼   ► Until the next time on the Connected Quiz,

00:25:06 ◼   ► who knows when it could be?

00:25:08 ◼   ► - I did not expect that today.

00:25:09 ◼   ► - Enjoy this while it lasts, man.

00:25:12 ◼   ► I'm giving it to you out of compassion.

00:25:15 ◼   ► - I love this.

00:25:16 ◼   ► I love this energy.

00:25:17 ◼   ► This is the energy I'm looking for,

00:25:18 ◼   ► but now it's time to read the, I can't do that.

00:25:21 ◼   ► It's time to read the rules.

00:25:22 ◼   ► - No, do it.

00:25:23 ◼   ► - I can't, I actually can't get it out of me,

00:25:26 ◼   ► is the problem.

00:25:27 ◼   ► I have limited capacity right now.

00:25:29 ◼   ► One of you two need to say it instead.

00:25:30 ◼   ► - Federico, you gotta do it, 'cause I gotta read 'em.

00:25:32 ◼   ► - It's time to read the rules.

00:25:34 ◼   ► - Oh, wow, that was great.

00:25:36 ◼   ► That was amazing.

00:25:37 ◼   ► - The Ricky's- - I was excited.

00:25:40 ◼   ► - The Ricky's is a game- - I loved it.

00:25:43 ◼   ► - Stop!

00:25:43 ◼   ► The Ricky's is a game connected host play

00:25:47 ◼   ► before Apple keynotes and the beginning of a new year,

00:25:50 ◼   ► trying to predict future events.

00:25:52 ◼   ► It is made up of three rounds.

00:25:54 ◼   ► Each host makes two regular picks followed by a risky pick.

00:25:57 ◼   ► There are two types of rookies, annual rookies,

00:26:00 ◼   ► AKA the Annie's, and keynote rookies.

00:26:03 ◼   ► The winner of the annual Ricky's is named

00:26:04 ◼   ► the annual chairman.

00:26:06 ◼   ► That's not what we're playing today.

00:26:08 ◼   ► The keynote Ricky's winner is named the keynote chairman

00:26:10 ◼   ► and retains the rights of the corresponding Twitter account

00:26:13 ◼   ► until the next keynote is held.

00:26:15 ◼   ► After the Ricky's, the hosts play a game called the Flexys.

00:26:17 ◼   ► These two games are separate but related.

00:26:20 ◼   ► Please stand for the reading of the rules.

00:26:22 ◼   ► - This is a complicated, oh here we go.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Oh.

00:26:26 ◼   ► - Can you stand?

00:26:27 ◼   ► - I'm up now, you know.

00:26:29 ◼   ► It's probably for the best.

00:26:31 ◼   ► (dramatic music)

00:26:34 ◼   ► - Correct regular picks are awarded one point.

00:26:41 ◼   ► The language used for regular picks must be finalized

00:26:44 ◼   ► and agreed upon during recording

00:26:46 ◼   ► and no partial points may be awarded.

00:26:49 ◼   ► Correct, risky picks are worth two points,

00:26:51 ◼   ► but wrong ones will cause a point to be deducted

00:26:54 ◼   ► from that host total.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Picks must have been approved as risky

00:26:57 ◼   ► by the two other hosts before the start of the game.

00:27:01 ◼   ► Picks made for keynote rookies cannot be reused

00:27:03 ◼   ► by the host who made them for the next keynote.

00:27:06 ◼   ► The annual rookies have their own subset of rules.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Once a host chooses something as an annual pick,

00:27:11 ◼   ► they cannot reuse it in that calendar year.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Additionally, picks may not be used in back to back annual

00:27:18 ◼   ► rookies by the same host. All hosts are allowed to reuse picks

00:27:22 ◼   ► previously made by others. Scoring is complete during

00:27:26 ◼   ► recording and cannot be modified once an episode is complete. And

00:27:30 ◼   ► even have a tie dice by p calc must be used in relay FM mode to

00:27:33 ◼   ► pick a winner. Jason Snell has a lifetime ban of flipping any

00:27:37 ◼   ► coins in relation to the rookies coin flips by Jason on other

00:27:42 ◼   ► podcasts are allowed but are frowned upon and subject to public shaming.

00:27:47 ◼   ► For keynote rookies, the scoring window starts when the event begins and closes when the

00:27:51 ◼   ► picks are scored.

00:27:53 ◼   ► Any information used in scoring must be publicly verifiable at the time of recording.

00:27:58 ◼   ► The order of picks is set by previous performance.

00:28:00 ◼   ► The winner of the previous associated game goes first, the previous loser goes last.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Winners will be recognized during the closing ceremonies.

00:28:08 ◼   ► As a reminder, I am the current annual chairman

00:28:11 ◼   ► and Federico is the current keynote chairman.

00:28:14 ◼   ► Past results can be seen at rickys.co and rickys.net.

00:28:17 ◼   ► Those links are in the show notes.

00:28:19 ◼   ► These sites also have a page about managing

00:28:22 ◼   ► your own score keeping at home.

00:28:24 ◼   ► Please be seated.

00:28:25 ◼   ► Federico, you got to go first.

00:28:27 ◼   ► So why don't you kick off round one?

00:28:30 ◼   ► - So in round one I said,

00:28:32 ◼   ► the next version of iOS brings changes to notifications.

00:28:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, big time.

00:28:39 ◼   ► - There's no bell?

00:28:41 ◼   ► - I didn't pack one.

00:28:42 ◼   ► - Ding!

00:28:43 ◼   ► What?

00:28:44 ◼   ► - Oh, come on!

00:28:46 ◼   ► - I didn't think about it.

00:28:46 ◼   ► - This is so sad.

00:28:48 ◼   ► - Is there not an app for that?

00:28:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, but then I gotta like run the sound in.

00:28:52 ◼   ► Do you want me to put them in?

00:28:53 ◼   ► I'll just do them with my mouth, okay?

00:28:55 ◼   ► Big mouth bells.

00:28:56 ◼   ► - Shouldn't put bells in your mouth.

00:28:57 ◼   ► - This is so anticlimactic, man.

00:28:59 ◼   ► - I'm sorry.

00:29:01 ◼   ► - Do you know what, hey Federico?

00:29:03 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:29:03 ◼   ► - I bet if David needed a bell, we'd have brought a bell.

00:29:07 ◼   ► You know, if Mac Power users needed a bell,

00:29:10 ◼   ► all we'd have, you wouldn't move for bells.

00:29:13 ◼   ► It'd be tripping over bells.

00:29:13 ◼   ► - It would have bought the whole church, not just a bell.

00:29:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, if we needed one for Mac Power users,

00:29:18 ◼   ► Apple probably could have just provided one to us

00:29:20 ◼   ► 'cause we were there.

00:29:21 ◼   ► - Oh my God, you hear this?

00:29:23 ◼   ► You hear how he treats us now?

00:29:24 ◼   ► I have coronavirus, you know?

00:29:27 ◼   ► I shouldn't be treated like this.

00:29:29 ◼   ► - Wow, your business partner is on his death bed.

00:29:34 ◼   ► - All right, all right, all right, all right.

00:29:36 ◼   ► I am still sick, okay? Let's not talk about that.

00:29:39 ◼   ► I am on a sickness bed.

00:29:41 ◼   ► Okay, yeah, we're supposed to make him feel bad, okay?

00:29:44 ◼   ► All right, all right, all right.

00:29:45 ◼   ► I'm on my deathbed.

00:29:47 ◼   ► I shouldn't say this.

00:29:48 ◼   ► I feel like this is really bad luck to say that.

00:29:51 ◼   ► I am sick though, you know?

00:29:52 ◼   ► I don't think I should be bullied.

00:29:54 ◼   ► This is cyber bullying.

00:29:55 ◼   ► Tell us about notification changes, Federico.

00:29:57 ◼   ► Federico, call the police.

00:29:59 ◼   ► Hey, Siri.

00:30:02 ◼   ► No, no.

00:30:06 ◼   ► No? No, no. So, notifications, changes are interesting for a couple of reasons. There's

00:30:14 ◼   ► the design change. So from a visual perspective on the new lock screen, those notifications

00:30:20 ◼   ► are now anchored at the bottom of the display. The idea being that they have this new customizable

00:30:26 ◼   ► lock screen where you can change the wallpaper and integrate widgets. They call them widgets,

00:30:32 ◼   ► but I think it's kind of weird that they're calling them widgets because they're really

00:30:36 ◼   ► complications and they're based on the same technology. They're not widgets at all are they?

00:30:40 ◼   ► They're not widgets at all. It's weird for two reasons. There really are complications and

00:30:44 ◼   ► they're based on the same technology of complications from the watch. And you still have

00:30:50 ◼   ► the actual widgets on the page to the left of the lock screen. So it's like you have widgets and you

00:30:58 ◼   ► have widgets. Like everything is called a widget. Okay, well, sure, whatever. Like what is it? What

00:31:02 ◼   ► - What even is a widget, man?

00:31:04 ◼   ► - I know, I know, there's deep questions, deep questions.

00:31:07 ◼   ► - Especially now we've got those special notifications,

00:31:10 ◼   ► right, that look like widgets, but are not widgets.

00:31:13 ◼   ► - I'm excited about that.

00:31:14 ◼   ► - And that's the second thing.

00:31:16 ◼   ► So those are called, so regular notifications,

00:31:19 ◼   ► they stay to the bottom of the screen.

00:31:20 ◼   ► You can actually swipe them down

00:31:22 ◼   ► and you will see the minimized UI for notifications.

00:31:26 ◼   ► It's a badge, basically, looks nice.

00:31:29 ◼   ► And Notification Center, you can still swipe up

00:31:31 ◼   ► and it's unchanged.

00:31:32 ◼   ► But then there's the live activities.

00:31:35 ◼   ► So these live activities are like rich notifications

00:31:40 ◼   ► that look like widgets, but they're not widgets.

00:31:42 ◼   ► They really look like widgets though,

00:31:44 ◼   ► but they are real time.

00:31:46 ◼   ► That's the big difference.

00:31:47 ◼   ► So these live activities, they are not available now.

00:31:50 ◼   ► The API will be available later this year.

00:31:54 ◼   ► So this will not be available at launch for sure for iOS 16.

00:31:58 ◼   ► They pitched this as a way for companies like, you know, for sports apps, for example, for

00:32:03 ◼   ► news apps or for food ordering apps.

00:32:06 ◼   ► They used Uber as an option and like that's so good, right?

00:32:11 ◼   ► That it would just rather than getting six notifications for every Uber drive.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:32:16 ◼   ► I did think about the Uber one.

00:32:17 ◼   ► To get the one thing.

00:32:18 ◼   ► You know, in the Uber app, sometimes the car like spins in circles on the street.

00:32:22 ◼   ► I think that'll be there in the widget.

00:32:25 ◼   ► The widget just like flips around a few times.

00:32:27 ◼   ► Where is it going?

00:32:28 ◼   ► Don't go that way.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Yeah, so instead of multiple alerts,

00:32:33 ◼   ► you get the one notification that updates in real time.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Nike is also an example.

00:32:39 ◼   ► And I believe Apple is actually using

00:32:41 ◼   ► the Live Activities Framework already in,

00:32:44 ◼   ► at least in two places.

00:32:46 ◼   ► The now playing controls for music and audio.

00:32:50 ◼   ► Those are live activity now.

00:32:53 ◼   ► And I also believe that the timer,

00:32:55 ◼   ► Timer on the lock screen is now a live activity at the bottom of the lock screen.

00:33:02 ◼   ► Right, but Apple gets the play/pause though, right?

00:33:05 ◼   ► Like no one else is going to get that.

00:33:08 ◼   ► Yeah, they get the special thing.

00:33:11 ◼   ► And same with the timer.

00:33:12 ◼   ► I believe there's a pause and cancel button.

00:33:15 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:33:18 ◼   ► And then we have, I mean, there's changes to focus modes,

00:33:21 ◼   ► but those are not really about notifications.

00:33:23 ◼   ► So for notifications we have the new placement, the new minimized mode when you swipe them to the bottom of the screen,

00:33:31 ◼   ► and these special notifications called Live Activities that are coming later this year.

00:33:36 ◼   ► These were not graded in my pick. I did cover maybe a new design and maybe new management features.

00:33:45 ◼   ► We did get them, I mean technically, you know, minimizing notifications is a management feature,

00:33:51 ◼   ► But I was thinking about more on the lines of like organizing your notifications,

00:33:56 ◼   ► which is not something we got at all.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Yeah. Can we talk about focus modes? I don't think we're going to talk about it.

00:34:02 ◼   ► Otherwise I don't think it's in anybody else's picks. Um, it's pretty cool.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Right. That they,

00:34:07 ◼   ► they've actually iterated on a thing they introduced last year, like surprise.

00:34:12 ◼   ► Yeah. But it's good, good additions though. Right.

00:34:16 ◼   ► Like what it feels like is what shipped last year was very much like halfway towards the

00:34:23 ◼   ► final product.

00:34:24 ◼   ► It's just like the screen now and where you create focus modes just look like it's had

00:34:30 ◼   ► a bit more polish.

00:34:31 ◼   ► That screen always looked a bit janky in the sentence.

00:34:34 ◼   ► Like it just didn't look right to me.

00:34:36 ◼   ► Now it looks nicer.

00:34:37 ◼   ► It's got more iconography and stuff and they added the main thing I wanted where you can

00:34:41 ◼   ► opt out stuff rather than needing to opt everything in.

00:34:44 ◼   ► So it's good.

00:34:45 ◼   ► cool. They tied in the new lock screen stuff to it too so you can have lock

00:34:49 ◼   ► screens and home screens. I think it's really good I'm happy because I like

00:34:53 ◼   ► focus modes and I'm really excited about that API. What is it called like focus

00:34:58 ◼   ► something API? Focus filters. That is amazing. That is like I really hope

00:35:04 ◼   ► we see a lot of developers integrate that because that is like really good.

00:35:08 ◼   ► It'd be sweet to turn off my email, my work email over the weekend you know?

00:35:13 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, right? Like seriously, that's such a good idea because it helps force it

00:35:19 ◼   ► more for you. Like because this is where we are these days. You can't just turn off your

00:35:24 ◼   ► email app, right? For most people because then you're not going to get any personal

00:35:28 ◼   ► email either. So I haven't seen if there's, I haven't really looked into the sessions

00:35:34 ◼   ► yet. I was planning on doing that today. I hope that there is a session about that, about

00:35:38 ◼   ► the focus activities thing or whatever it's called. I've forgotten already because I want

00:35:43 ◼   ► to learn more about that. That looks awesome.

00:35:44 ◼   ► - One thing I also want to just insert here,

00:35:47 ◼   ► because this feature falls into this category,

00:35:49 ◼   ► quite a few things announced coming later this year

00:35:52 ◼   ► or later in a later update.

00:35:55 ◼   ► I think we've talked about this over the last,

00:35:57 ◼   ► maybe three or four years,

00:35:59 ◼   ► things that have been announced

00:36:00 ◼   ► and have slipped to 0.1, 0.2, 0.3.

00:36:03 ◼   ► And it finally feels like this year,

00:36:05 ◼   ► Apple is kind of acknowledging that.

00:36:07 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, this stuff will be available later

00:36:10 ◼   ► and just setting that expectation.

00:36:13 ◼   ► I'm curious how that plays out in the future.

00:36:15 ◼   ► Like, is that just a thing because of the time we're in

00:36:18 ◼   ► and Apple still work from home partially

00:36:21 ◼   ► and there's been a lot of back and forth with that

00:36:22 ◼   ► within the company or are we just settling into a future

00:36:25 ◼   ► where yeah, not all this stuff is available in the fall?

00:36:29 ◼   ► - Or it just rolls out like between September and December

00:36:31 ◼   ► kind of thing, right?

00:36:32 ◼   ► Like little bits and bobs.

00:36:33 ◼   ► But also like, I mean, I don't know,

00:36:35 ◼   ► like it's all later this year, right?

00:36:38 ◼   ► Like everything they announced comes later this year.

00:36:40 ◼   ► - I mean, yes, but I mean,

00:36:42 ◼   ► But them saying it means it's not in the point O, right?

00:36:46 ◼   ► Is that what you think?

00:36:46 ◼   ► 'Cause it felt like they said it so much,

00:36:48 ◼   ► it kind of felt like everything.

00:36:51 ◼   ► More than once the actual phrase was like,

00:36:52 ◼   ► coming in a later update, so.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Okay, cool.

00:36:55 ◼   ► Right. Okay.

00:36:56 ◼   ► But yeah, I am very excited about these lock screen

00:36:58 ◼   ► and notification changes.

00:36:59 ◼   ► The live activities like,

00:37:02 ◼   ► 'cause again, I follow several sports teams, right?

00:37:04 ◼   ► You just get so many notifications

00:37:06 ◼   ► and you can't put them in the summary

00:37:09 ◼   ► 'cause you don't know what's going on in the game,

00:37:11 ◼   ► but then your phone's blowing up all the time.

00:37:13 ◼   ► Like it's gonna be so fantastic

00:37:15 ◼   ► just to have like a little widget at the bottom of my screen

00:37:17 ◼   ► I can see what's going on and--

00:37:19 ◼   ► - Going on in a big game, keep your eye on the big game.

00:37:21 ◼   ► Going for the big game.

00:37:23 ◼   ► Just on that lock screen thing, not on the iPad.

00:37:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, why? - Why?

00:37:26 ◼   ► - Why did they do this?

00:37:27 ◼   ► Why? (laughs)

00:37:29 ◼   ► So all the lock screen customization stuff.

00:37:31 ◼   ► - We should clarify the customization.

00:37:33 ◼   ► Customization is not on the iPad.

00:37:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, well that's what we all wanted though.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Like that's the big feature.

00:37:40 ◼   ► I mean, it's like iOS 14 all over again,

00:37:44 ◼   ► when they did widgets on the home screen,

00:37:46 ◼   ► but not on the iPad.

00:37:48 ◼   ► And so everybody for the following year was like,

00:37:50 ◼   ► oh, I'm sure they're bringing widgets to the home screen

00:37:52 ◼   ► in iPadOS 15, and they did.

00:37:54 ◼   ► - We already have our first iOS 17 wishlist feature.

00:37:57 ◼   ► We've already got it.

00:37:58 ◼   ► It's only been a day and we got it already.

00:38:00 ◼   ► - Do you guys think it's ridiculous

00:38:02 ◼   ► that these numbers are getting so huge?

00:38:04 ◼   ► Like iOS 17, I don't know, it sounds weird.

00:38:08 ◼   ► I'm on the Jason Snow train and he just said we should just name everything after the year now.

00:38:13 ◼   ► Like this should just be iOS 22.

00:38:15 ◼   ► Because the numbers are getting so high, like it just kind of starts to sound ridiculous.

00:38:20 ◼   ► Like everything should just be named with the year that it came out.

00:38:23 ◼   ► I agree. Because even if you thought, well they should just use names for everything.

00:38:28 ◼   ► Most people can't keep up with the Mac OS release names.

00:38:31 ◼   ► I forget them. I know the most recent one and even that I forget sometimes.

00:38:35 ◼   ► It's hard to keep up.

00:38:36 ◼   ► - Genuinely, what are we on now?

00:38:37 ◼   ► Is it Monterey?

00:38:39 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:38:40 ◼   ► - No, yes, now it's Monterey,

00:38:42 ◼   ► but the new one is Ventura.

00:38:43 ◼   ► - Ventura, I'm not gonna forget.

00:38:45 ◼   ► I love that name.

00:38:46 ◼   ► - Ventura.

00:38:47 ◼   ► - Ventura.

00:38:47 ◼   ► - That's a nice name, Ventura.

00:38:49 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:38:50 ◼   ► - Ventura.

00:38:51 ◼   ► - My pick, third party widgets gain interactivity.

00:38:55 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:38:56 ◼   ► - That's good, that's a good sentence.

00:38:57 ◼   ► I am not surprised about this.

00:38:59 ◼   ► I didn't think it was gonna happen.

00:39:00 ◼   ► - I got shot down by somebody we know

00:39:03 ◼   ► who makes widgets for a living,

00:39:05 ◼   ► basically explaining how they work.

00:39:07 ◼   ► He's like, "Yeah, you're not gonna get that."

00:39:07 ◼   ► I was like, "Okay."

00:39:10 ◼   ► - Whoops.

00:39:11 ◼   ► You should have spoke to the Smith of widget.

00:39:13 ◼   ► - I guess so, yeah.

00:39:14 ◼   ► - But why though?

00:39:15 ◼   ► Like shouldn't they exist?

00:39:16 ◼   ► Like I get it.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Technically speaking, that framework does not allow

00:39:20 ◼   ► for interactive widgets, but they should exist.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Like I don't care which framework you use.

00:39:25 ◼   ► I still think they should exist.

00:39:27 ◼   ► And it's silly that they don't.

00:39:29 ◼   ► - It's, for me, it is the consistent insistence

00:39:34 ◼   ► on the phrase glanceable.

00:39:36 ◼   ► They said glanceable about a thousand times yesterday.

00:39:39 ◼   ► - Look, I don't want to glance at anything.

00:39:40 ◼   ► Like I'm going to glance at the lock screen.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:43 ◼   ► - They want you to be glancing.

00:39:44 ◼   ► - I don't want to be glancing.

00:39:45 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, especially, I mean,

00:39:46 ◼   ► so obvious that they're doing the always on display, right?

00:39:49 ◼   ► Like I know that people started finding code to it,

00:39:51 ◼   ► but like you see that lock screen,

00:39:52 ◼   ► so like why would I need all this stuff on my lock screen?

00:39:54 ◼   ► Like most of the time I'm unlocking my phone

00:39:57 ◼   ► and I see my lock screen.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Like I don't need complications on my iPhone's lock screen

00:40:02 ◼   ► unless they're always visible.

00:40:05 ◼   ► - And it's such a tell that even from a visual standpoint,

00:40:09 ◼   ► those complications, like the font style,

00:40:13 ◼   ► the way that it's rendered, it's already like semi-dimmed.

00:40:17 ◼   ► Like I can totally see that work

00:40:20 ◼   ► for an always on lock screen, it's so obvious.

00:40:22 ◼   ► - It's why they've gone with complications over widgets,

00:40:25 ◼   ► right?

00:40:26 ◼   ► Like that's why they've gone this route

00:40:27 ◼   ► because they know how to render those in a way

00:40:31 ◼   ► where it's not high graphics, it's simple color, mostly.

00:40:34 ◼   ► It's like an easy thing for them to do, right?

00:40:36 ◼   ► Where like, imagine trying to render a widget,

00:40:39 ◼   ► like with how complicated they can be visually

00:40:42 ◼   ► in an always on state.

00:40:43 ◼   ► Like I don't know how that would work very well, so.

00:40:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:40:47 ◼   ► - But yeah, no interactivity.

00:40:48 ◼   ► It is a bummer, I want it, right?

00:40:50 ◼   ► But-- - Me too.

00:40:51 ◼   ► - I'm not surprised they didn't do it.

00:40:53 ◼   ► - All right, you're up next.

00:40:55 ◼   ► - No Apple made headset is seen.

00:40:57 ◼   ► Everyone needed to calm down. This wasn't happening.

00:41:02 ◼   ► You know, everyone just calm down. Later. It's coming later, alright.

00:41:07 ◼   ► It's happening but just not now.

00:41:09 ◼   ► I was surprised though that basically nothing in the keynote about AR.

00:41:15 ◼   ► Which when I then think about it, it's like, well yeah of course because they've got a bunch of stuff they're working on.

00:41:20 ◼   ► But they can't tell you about it yet.

00:41:23 ◼   ► The only thing that I saw that came out afterwards is this room scanning thing. Did you see this?

00:41:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:29 ◼   ► That's clearly a thing that you can see why they're doing it right. But, yep. Nothing

00:41:34 ◼   ► on the headset. Not yet.

00:41:36 ◼   ► Alright, so the end of round one. Federico has one point, I have zero points, and Myke

00:41:43 ◼   ► has one point. So we have a tie.

00:41:46 ◼   ► Excellent.

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00:43:39 ◼   ► Round two, my pick was the next version of macOS

00:43:42 ◼   ► will have at least one feature

00:43:44 ◼   ► exclusive to Apple Silicon Macs.

00:43:47 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:43:48 ◼   ► - Steven, the bell.

00:43:50 ◼   ► - Ding!

00:43:51 ◼   ► Such a good bell. - Thank you.

00:43:52 ◼   ► - So pleased you brought it.

00:43:54 ◼   ► - There's actually a couple, at least.

00:43:56 ◼   ► So first of all is the FaceTime Live Caption feature

00:44:01 ◼   ► that was previously announced

00:44:03 ◼   ► with the accessibility functionalities

00:44:06 ◼   ► that Apple put out with the press release last month.

00:44:09 ◼   ► That's Apple Silicon only.

00:44:10 ◼   ► And also the new reference mode for color.

00:44:14 ◼   ► When you use an iPad Pro with a liquid XDR display

00:44:19 ◼   ► and a Mac with Apple Silicon.

00:44:21 ◼   ► Yeah, this is mentioned in a footnote

00:44:23 ◼   ► on the feature page for reference mode.

00:44:27 ◼   ► So there's at least a couple,

00:44:29 ◼   ► I think 95 Macs as an article

00:44:31 ◼   ► with a roundup of these features.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I don't know, is there more than these two?

00:44:35 ◼   ► But anyway, I set a list to 1.

00:44:38 ◼   ► There's a list 2 that we know of already, so that's a point.

00:44:43 ◼   ► Yeah, good job.

00:44:45 ◼   ► I don't understand this reference mode thing.

00:44:47 ◼   ► What is going... I didn't get it at the time, and I don't think...

00:44:50 ◼   ► It's going to...

00:44:52 ◼   ► It's about that, like, complicated color stuff that folks like, you know,

00:44:57 ◼   ► Quinn do sometimes.

00:44:59 ◼   ► Like, it matches...

00:45:00 ◼   ► Oh, this is a Quinn feature?

00:45:01 ◼   ► Oh, kinda, yeah.

00:45:03 ◼   ► - It's, you know, the Pro Display XDR

00:45:06 ◼   ► has those reference modes built in,

00:45:08 ◼   ► and they're basically bringing a subset of those

00:45:10 ◼   ► to the 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

00:45:13 ◼   ► - I didn't know the Pro Display,

00:45:14 ◼   ► or I didn't remember that the Pro Display

00:45:15 ◼   ► had reference modes, but it makes sense that it does.

00:45:17 ◼   ► - And so if you have like a MacBook Pro,

00:45:21 ◼   ► you can now use, and currently it's the only,

00:45:23 ◼   ► the 12.9 inch iPad Pro has this screen,

00:45:26 ◼   ► but I would imagine that that screen may filter down

00:45:29 ◼   ► in the coming times.

00:45:31 ◼   ► So this is another thing that makes the Pro Display kind of

00:45:34 ◼   ► obsolete.

00:45:36 ◼   ► - Useless.

00:45:37 ◼   ► - Useless is a good word, thank you, useless.

00:45:40 ◼   ► And like another reason that anybody that bought

00:45:43 ◼   ► that monitor should like be upset, you know.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - iPad OS is updated to include a more desktop-like mode

00:45:52 ◼   ► with a resizable and overlapping windows.

00:45:56 ◼   ► - Your boy did it, he done did it, didn't he?

00:45:58 ◼   ► Bell yourself, there you go, amazing.

00:46:00 ◼   ► I can't believe you got this genuinely.

00:46:02 ◼   ► - I was so worried because they initially showed

00:46:05 ◼   ► stage manager with just one window.

00:46:07 ◼   ► I was like, oh no.

00:46:09 ◼   ► And then he drug another one out

00:46:12 ◼   ► and everyone in the whole Apple Park

00:46:15 ◼   ► turned toward me and applauded.

00:46:16 ◼   ► - Wow, really?

00:46:17 ◼   ► Man, we didn't see that part.

00:46:19 ◼   ► That's so cool for you.

00:46:20 ◼   ► - No, just Jason Snell and I smiled at each other.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Really, that's all that happened.

00:46:23 ◼   ► - But was there also a nod?

00:46:25 ◼   ► Like they just might have nod, like?

00:46:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, Craig Federighi came over

00:46:29 ◼   ► and thanked me for the idea.

00:46:31 ◼   ► - Oh, wow.

00:46:32 ◼   ► Again, that's so cool.

00:46:33 ◼   ► We didn't get to see that.

00:46:34 ◼   ► - Thank you for the ideas just five days ago.

00:46:36 ◼   ► That's amazing, man.

00:46:37 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, if you've used it,

00:46:38 ◼   ► it's a little buggy right now, so.

00:46:40 ◼   ► - It feels five days old.

00:46:43 ◼   ► It's weird.

00:46:43 ◼   ► It's weird, huh?

00:46:46 ◼   ► How much time have you two spent with this feature?

00:46:49 ◼   ► - A few hours, yeah.

00:46:51 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Steven?

00:46:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, about half an hour.

00:46:57 ◼   ► and it was on an 11 inch iPad.

00:47:01 ◼   ► I would imagine on the 12.9 it's better.

00:47:05 ◼   ► It is cool to have like more than one like overlapping window

00:47:10 ◼   ► but to me and Federico,

00:47:12 ◼   ► I wanna see what you think about this.

00:47:14 ◼   ► To me, it feels like something to be way more useful

00:47:17 ◼   ► on an external display, which iPadOS will now support.

00:47:20 ◼   ► You know, you can move stage manager like have,

00:47:23 ◼   ► and you can have separate instances on the display

00:47:26 ◼   ► on the iPad, which is really cool. It is M1 only.

00:47:30 ◼   ► - Yes, which a bunch of people are upset about on Twitter.

00:47:34 ◼   ► Which I'm gonna get to this in a minute.

00:47:35 ◼   ► But what you can also do is you can,

00:47:37 ◼   ► if you're doing the iPad with an external display,

00:47:41 ◼   ► you can say, okay, on the external display,

00:47:43 ◼   ► it's stage manager.

00:47:44 ◼   ► But the iPad, I'm gonna keep using in regular mode.

00:47:47 ◼   ► So you can do regular split view or regular full screen

00:47:51 ◼   ► on the iPad and then overlapping windows

00:47:54 ◼   ► with Stage Manager on the monitor.

00:47:56 ◼   ► So you can do that.

00:47:57 ◼   ► You can mix and match the environments.

00:48:00 ◼   ► But external displays are Stage Manager only, obviously.

00:48:02 ◼   ► The M1 exclusivity.

00:48:06 ◼   ► I think it's funny, I saw a bunch of people on Twitter

00:48:09 ◼   ► say with a certain degree of certainty,

00:48:15 ◼   ► there's no reason for Stage Manager to be M1 only.

00:48:18 ◼   ► This can also work on an iPad Air from two years ago.

00:48:22 ◼   ► And I'm curious to know which engineering team they work at Apple.

00:48:25 ◼   ► Because obviously, I mean, they are so sure about these statements.

00:48:29 ◼   ► I'm generally curious to know.

00:48:32 ◼   ► Maybe they have more color there.

00:48:36 ◼   ► Federico's blasting off.

00:48:39 ◼   ► Watch out, everyone.

00:48:40 ◼   ► No, I'm like, imagine if I engaged in a conversation with like,

00:48:45 ◼   ► I don't know, any kind of doctor on Twitter, like,

00:48:49 ◼   ► "No, this doesn't make sense. Like, what authority do you have? You know, what degree or job title?"

00:48:57 ◼   ► I don't know, like, I honestly don't understand. I guess so many people say, "Oh, but this is ridiculous, it's..."

00:49:03 ◼   ► Like, we can't know. Like, how do you know if there's anything in the M1 that made this possible?

00:49:10 ◼   ► Like, could it be a strategy? I'm sure, but like, I can be skeptical of it, but like,

00:49:17 ◼   ► Some tweets were really detailed, like "oh I know for..."

00:49:21 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure they said that it's because of the M1 and the virtual memory.

00:49:29 ◼   ► Like, am I...

00:49:31 ◼   ► No, somebody said "I know for a fact that the virtual memory swap can be done on an A12Z as well."

00:49:38 ◼   ► I would like to know the fact.

00:49:40 ◼   ► I mean like this might be one of those things where it's like if you have the one terabyte one,

00:49:45 ◼   ► right, but like they're not gonna do that, right?

00:49:47 ◼   ► like this works on everything with the M1 and the 1TB 12.0, like this is like, this is silly.

00:49:53 ◼   ► Anyway, what do you think about it? I think it's exciting and scary, it's not the right word.

00:50:05 ◼   ► I'm confused, I guess, right now. I'm confused because I was not expecting this. I was more

00:50:13 ◼   ► expecting something along the lines of, like, a tiling mode. But there's also the thing

00:50:21 ◼   ► that StageManager, it tries to solve some of the problems with overlapping windows for

00:50:29 ◼   ► people like me. And what it does is also, well, it's upsetting a bunch of other people

00:50:38 ◼   ► that are totally okay with overlapping windows. So my impression is that with Stage Manager,

00:50:44 ◼   ► Apple is trying to go after this very specific area of a Venn diagram of Mac users and iPad

00:50:54 ◼   ► users and those who wanted more Mac features on the iPad, but also that segment of people

00:51:00 ◼   ► who say, "I want more from multitasking, but I dislike or historically have disliked

00:51:08 ◼   ► overlapping windows. Can you make that happen, but in a nicer way for me?" Which I recognize

00:51:15 ◼   ► is a very specific niche to go after, but it seems to me like, especially on iPad, is

00:51:19 ◼   ► what they're doing. Like, with the windows that are... Like, the system tries to automatically

00:51:24 ◼   ► arrange them for you, and obviously the counterargument is, "But that's not the point of overlapping

00:51:30 ◼   ► Because the point is that from a spatial perspective, you're supposed to place a window somewhere

00:51:35 ◼   ► and it should stay there. It shouldn't move and the system shouldn't interfere with you.

00:51:39 ◼   ► And I get it. Like, I totally get it. But also that's what I dislike about overlapping

00:51:44 ◼   ► windows. It's, you know, having to do the precise "Oh, just go here and then I'm going

00:51:47 ◼   ► to place my window here." Like, I really don't like that.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Also, trying this on a 12.9-inch iPad Pro makes me wish for a 15-inch iPad Pro even

00:51:59 ◼   ► more, right? Yeah, I'm using it on an 11. I got an 11"

00:52:06 ◼   ► Air yesterday. It's gonna be tricky on an Air or on an 11"

00:52:12 ◼   ► iPad Pro. It really does make me wish for a bigger iPad Pro. And I also feel like it's

00:52:22 ◼   ► strange in how it's been implemented at the moment. There's a technical discussion here

00:52:28 ◼   ► to be added. Somebody also mentioned this in the, the coder mentioned this in the Discord

00:52:32 ◼   ► as well, and Steve Tran Smith was talking about it on Twitter last night. The way that

00:52:39 ◼   ► the resize happens on iPad with the size classes is kind of weird and jarring from a visual

00:52:47 ◼   ► perspective. On the Mac, when you resize a Mac catalyst app, it's a live resize. On iPad,

00:52:53 ◼   ► you resize a window, the window is switching between different size classes, meaning that

00:53:00 ◼   ► a lot of UI elements just jump around and reflow as you resize, and it's very odd-looking,

00:53:08 ◼   ► it's like jittery almost when you resize a window. And that's because the whole system

00:53:13 ◼   ► is based on size classes. So, I don't know how I feel about it. It also doesn't help

00:53:21 ◼   ► that beta 1 of iPadOS, not the best one, you know, of all the betas, it seems, so far.

00:53:27 ◼   ► And so, like, you can see that this feature is gonna be one of those things that Apple

00:53:33 ◼   ► is gonna hopefully, like, ask for a ton of feedback to people and ask to, like, "How

00:53:39 ◼   ► can we make this better?" There are so many inconsistencies right now. Like, for example,

00:53:43 ◼   ► I don't understand why the resize handle, the little black thing that shows up in the

00:53:49 ◼   ► bottom corner of a window to resize it. Sometimes it's in the bottom right, other times it's

00:53:55 ◼   ► in the bottom left. And I honestly don't understand why. Sometimes when you go with the pointer

00:54:01 ◼   ► over the title bar of a window, because you want to resize it, sometimes it latches onto

00:54:09 ◼   ► the multitasking menu instead. So like, you're trying to resize but you actually click the

00:54:14 ◼   ► multitasking menu, and that's not great. Then, I think it's gonna be, right now, and I mean

00:54:22 ◼   ► it's not even been 24 hours, but I am struggling to understand with Stage Manager what the

00:54:30 ◼   ► story is for managing multiple windows from the same app. Like, how do I get to a screen

00:54:39 ◼   ► that shows me all the windows from Safari. And also why...

00:54:45 ◼   ► You have to do the thing you always did, right? Like, press and hold and do the thing and

00:54:50 ◼   ► show all windows... That's how you do it now.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Is that the only way? Okay, so the shelf is done?

00:54:55 ◼   ► It is a way that works, you know?

00:54:58 ◼   ► Right, right. So I guess it's gonna take some time, because this is another multitasking

00:55:02 ◼   ► metaphor that they... Actually, no, multitasking system that they are adding on top of, like,

00:55:08 ◼   ► Split View and Slide Over, they're not gone.

00:55:11 ◼   ► Like you can still use them.

00:55:13 ◼   ► They're still there.

00:55:14 ◼   ► But this is like...

00:55:15 ◼   ► One of the things that's funny about this is in Stage Manager, which is a name that's

00:55:19 ◼   ► really gonna take a while to sink in for me.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Sorry, because they have center stage and all that stuff now, right?

00:55:25 ◼   ► So it's hard.

00:55:26 ◼   ► But if you want to look at just two apps at once, you see less than Split View.

00:55:33 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:35 ◼   ► Not only is the doc, you can kind of get the doc to go away, but you can't stretch the

00:55:39 ◼   ► app to fill the whole screen.

00:55:41 ◼   ► There's always the border around it.

00:55:44 ◼   ► And so I kind of don't, I don't get that, you know?

00:55:48 ◼   ► This is going to take time.

00:55:49 ◼   ► This is going to take time.

00:55:53 ◼   ► What it also doesn't do is, so right now, for example, I'm looking at a workspace with

00:55:59 ◼   ► three apps, two small ones on the left side and on the right side and a bigger one, a

00:56:04 ◼   ► Safari one in the center, which is great, because the system makes it front and center for me.

00:56:09 ◼   ► But what if now I decide, OK, I now want to extend this window to fill the whole setup without

00:56:17 ◼   ► exiting Stage Manager? You can press Globe+F, but that makes it fullscreen, and it makes the

00:56:25 ◼   ► Stage Manager tray on the left go away. And I don't want that, I just want to... I guess what

00:56:31 ◼   ► what it's called, "resize to fit", I guess is what I'm looking for, but that's not supported

00:56:38 ◼   ► right now. So these are all a bunch of beta 1 issues, and this is the time for actually

00:56:45 ◼   ► filing those requests. We make fun of this all year long, but this is actually the time

00:56:52 ◼   ► to do it.

00:56:53 ◼   ► This feels like, to me, if something's going to change a bunch over the beta period, I

00:56:59 ◼   ► think this will be the thing that changes a bunch. Yes. And don't get me wrong, this

00:57:03 ◼   ► is not like Safari. Safari was bad, right? This is not bad. It's just so new, it's weird.

00:57:10 ◼   ► Yeah. Right? It's new, yes. It's new, it's so weird, and also it's breaking... I mean,

00:57:18 ◼   ► we can't blame ourselves here. This mode is breaking a 12-year-old muscle memory that

00:57:24 ◼   ► we have on the iPad. Obviously we cannot get used to it in 24 hours, you know? So it's

00:57:30 ◼   ► totally okay, I think, to feel the way. But there's a bunch of cool stuff, like app pairs,

00:57:33 ◼   ► finally, right? You can pair things together and they'll live it together. Like, there's

00:57:37 ◼   ► a bunch of stuff in here that's like, "Oh yeah, this is the new foundation," right?

00:57:42 ◼   ► Like, "This is it?" I was actually working with it today and I was like, "You know, this

00:57:46 ◼   ► is actually nice." And I really love the window tray on the left, like, clicking just once

00:57:52 ◼   ► to switch between app pairs or workspaces, that's super cool! And it's exactly what I

00:57:58 ◼   ► wanted. Like, all this from... I honestly think it's gonna be great for me, but how

00:58:04 ◼   ► do I feel now? I feel confused because I don't know what I'm doing.

00:58:08 ◼   ► This is like the true shelf over here, right? On the side. I don't like how it looks.

00:58:14 ◼   ► So now you see what I'm... Like, why did they waste that name last year? Why?

00:58:19 ◼   ► this part even have a name? Is it? Because it got a name? This little bit on the side?

00:58:25 ◼   ► I don't think so. I don't like how it looks though with the apps kind of like

00:58:29 ◼   ► the way they're like oriented. But you know why it looks that way? Because this is gonna be what

00:58:35 ◼   ► working in AR looks like. Oh my god. Oh my god Federico. Yeah. Yeah. Wow I hadn't thought of that

00:58:44 ◼   ► man yeah yeah yeah it's always living on the left side geez also wonder on the

00:58:51 ◼   ► Mac if you use your dock on the left side yeah that's gonna I guess like they

00:58:56 ◼   ► move over with the docks visible I haven't played with Ventura yeah I've

00:58:59 ◼   ► seen I've seen pictures of that like it just shifts it all like you can still

00:59:04 ◼   ► use the dock on the left everything just kind of I find it interesting that this

00:59:08 ◼   ► is on the Mac as well I mean they kind of opened this segment talking about

00:59:12 ◼   ► Mission Control, which has been around since OS X Lion, and like how it's kind

00:59:17 ◼   ► of messy and like I don't think it is, but this is like another, it's like

00:59:22 ◼   ► another example on Mac OS of them layering multiple window management

00:59:27 ◼   ► tools on top of each other, because Mission Control itself includes expose

00:59:31 ◼   ► and spaces, and now you have this, which is like a separate thing, and you get to

00:59:37 ◼   ► it from Control Center, you know, maybe this will end up being on the keyboard,

00:59:42 ◼   ► as a keyboard shortcut at some point in the future.

00:59:44 ◼   ► But it's like, I think it's less useful on the Mac

00:59:48 ◼   ► than it is on the iPad probably.

00:59:51 ◼   ► I think Apple's reasoning for it is they want these devices

00:59:54 ◼   ► to be closer together and more fluid to move between them.

00:59:57 ◼   ► So like, if you have an iPad and a Mac

00:59:59 ◼   ► and you really like this,

01:00:00 ◼   ► you can work the same way on both devices.

01:00:03 ◼   ► I think Apple's totally fine with that duplication.

01:00:06 ◼   ► I just think it feels a bit more grafted onto the Mac

01:00:09 ◼   ► than I expected.

01:00:11 ◼   ► I like that they did it though.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Right, because that's making a statement

01:00:16 ◼   ► I think is important,

01:00:18 ◼   ► of moving these two platforms forward together.

01:00:22 ◼   ► I think I might dig it on the Mac, you know?

01:00:26 ◼   ► So I'm not going between like, spaces anymore.

01:00:29 ◼   ► It's all just one desktop,

01:00:30 ◼   ► and I just have the apps open that I need

01:00:32 ◼   ► at any one moment.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Like, I could imagine no longer using spaces,

01:00:37 ◼   ► like just having, using Stage Manager.

01:00:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, we'll see, we will see.

01:00:43 ◼   ► - I think it could work for me.

01:00:44 ◼   ► - All right, Myke, what was your round two pick?

01:00:46 ◼   ► - New features for tap back in messages.

01:00:49 ◼   ► - Ding.

01:00:50 ◼   ► - This is skin on my teeth here,

01:00:52 ◼   ► I didn't even know about this.

01:00:53 ◼   ► If without Stephen Hackett, I wouldn't have got this point.

01:00:56 ◼   ► But Stephen sent something to the group chat today.

01:00:59 ◼   ► Tap backs will no longer spam your SMS group chats

01:01:02 ◼   ► from nine to five Mac.

01:01:04 ◼   ► So this is the feature that Google added

01:01:07 ◼   ► to Google messages basically.

01:01:10 ◼   ► And I believe I did talk about this on our last episode.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Like I have a memory of mentioning this one thing.

01:01:17 ◼   ► This isn't what I wanted.

01:01:18 ◼   ► What I wanted was more like actual like tap back options.

01:01:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:23 ◼   ► But it's now doing that thing where if you're in a--

01:01:26 ◼   ► It's arguable whether--

01:01:27 ◼   ► Skin of my teeth, man.

01:01:28 ◼   ► It's arguable whether this count or not, but--

01:01:32 ◼   ► I mean, it is a new feature for tap back.

01:01:35 ◼   ► So arguably, it's not the spirit of the pick.

01:01:39 ◼   ► It really is not a new feature, but technically you could say,

01:01:46 ◼   ► "Wait, no, it's a new feature in Messages."

01:01:50 ◼   ► See, if you said "in iMessage," it wouldn't be a point.

01:01:56 ◼   ► Sure, but I would never say that.

01:01:57 ◼   ► But you said "in Messages."

01:01:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:00 ◼   ► But you said "in Messages."

01:02:02 ◼   ► So technically, SMS, you know, technically you could be

01:02:07 ◼   ► an iPhone user using Messages without iMessage.

01:02:11 ◼   ► You could be a person using regular SMS

01:02:13 ◼   ► in the Messages app.

01:02:15 ◼   ► So it fits the way the pic has been phrased.

01:02:19 ◼   ► - So, as someone who's in a family thread

01:02:22 ◼   ► with some Android users who also has iPhone users

01:02:27 ◼   ► in that thread who don't understand why this happens,

01:02:30 ◼   ► like, this is gonna be a game changer for me.

01:02:33 ◼   ► That's why I was excited to see it.

01:02:34 ◼   ► and I agree it's not the spirit of the pic,

01:02:37 ◼   ► but it's the letter of the pic, but I think it gets it.

01:02:40 ◼   ► - So just again, to recap,

01:02:42 ◼   ► if we don't follow what we're going,

01:02:43 ◼   ► if you're in a group chat with mixed devices,

01:02:48 ◼   ► if you would do a tapback,

01:02:50 ◼   ► instead of it actually animating the tapback

01:02:52 ◼   ► and showing a little thumbs up on the message,

01:02:54 ◼   ► it sends another SMS message, which says,

01:02:57 ◼   ► "Steven liked this,"

01:02:59 ◼   ► and every single tapback gets its own message.

01:03:03 ◼   ► - It's terrible.

01:03:04 ◼   ► But now in iOS 16, even on SMS messages,

01:03:07 ◼   ► Apple is interpreting the SMS

01:03:10 ◼   ► that otherwise would have been sent

01:03:11 ◼   ► and just animating the little thumb up

01:03:14 ◼   ► like Google does for Google messages.

01:03:16 ◼   ► So there we go.

01:03:17 ◼   ► I will take that.

01:03:18 ◼   ► Thank you, Steven.

01:03:20 ◼   ► - So at the end of round two, Federico has two points.

01:03:24 ◼   ► I have one point and Myke has two points.

01:03:27 ◼   ► So we will see going into the risky picks how we do.

01:03:33 ◼   ► But first let's take a break.

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01:05:15 ◼   ► - Oh, that's so good.

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01:05:30 ◼   ► - That makes me so happy that you saw them.

01:05:32 ◼   ► That's cool.

01:05:33 ◼   ► That's really great.

01:05:34 ◼   ► - Risky pick time.

01:05:35 ◼   ► Federico, you're up.

01:05:36 ◼   ► - I read this pick today four times

01:05:38 ◼   ► and I couldn't understand it.

01:05:40 ◼   ► My brain's messed up, obviously.

01:05:41 ◼   ► I was like, I don't understand, but go on.

01:05:44 ◼   ► - I said iOS gets split view support

01:05:48 ◼   ► for multitasking to use two apps at once.

01:05:52 ◼   ► I wanted to get split view on the iPhone

01:05:54 ◼   ► and I didn't get split view on the iPhone.

01:05:56 ◼   ► - 'Cause I kept reading this as like,

01:05:57 ◼   ► Well of course it has split view, it's had split view for years.

01:06:00 ◼   ► Yeah, iOS is the key word here.

01:06:01 ◼   ► iOS.

01:06:02 ◼   ► IOS.

01:06:03 ◼   ► So there was nothing here, right? Didn't Quick Note though?

01:06:09 ◼   ► We'll scan them on Quick Note.

01:06:10 ◼   ► That's a different... we'll get to Quick Note later.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Oh, is it a pick later on?

01:06:14 ◼   ► Uh...

01:06:15 ◼   ► It's a flexi later on.

01:06:16 ◼   ► Oh, okay, fine, we'll talk about it later then. Sorry.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Yeah, didn't get it.

01:06:20 ◼   ► And I still think it should happen.

01:06:23 ◼   ► Historically this means I'm gonna get the pick next year or in two years but I will get it

01:06:27 ◼   ► and I still think they should do it but it's not this year.

01:06:30 ◼   ► I still think this is not outside of the realm of possibility to happen in September.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Mmm because the funds are getting bigger?

01:06:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Are they getting bigger?

01:06:43 ◼   ► There's gonna be two big ones. They're not getting bigger but they will have two big funds now

01:06:48 ◼   ► and I could see it being a thing for the big phones or at least the pro phone

01:06:53 ◼   ► because the pro phone maybe both pro phones are both big phones

01:06:57 ◼   ► because there's gonna be some weirdness right because they're either gonna have

01:07:01 ◼   ► that we know we know the range is kind of like too regular size too big right

01:07:05 ◼   ► so they will now oh we have two big phones and now on the larger phones you

01:07:10 ◼   ► can do this or there's the other thing of the both the pro phones are supposed

01:07:13 ◼   ► to be getting a new chip where the old phones aren't right so I could imagine

01:07:17 ◼   ► I imagine saying, and with the power of the M or A29 or whatever it's going to be, you

01:07:23 ◼   ► can do two apps at once.

01:07:25 ◼   ► I could still see this happening for one of those two reasons.

01:07:28 ◼   ► I think it could still be a thing.

01:07:31 ◼   ► My pick, the new version of macOS brings back dashboard as a way to place widgets outside

01:07:37 ◼   ► of the current notification center.

01:07:39 ◼   ► What a surprise to you.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Come on, man.

01:07:42 ◼   ► We told you.

01:07:43 ◼   ► We told you.

01:07:44 ◼   ► Okay.

01:07:45 ◼   ► So like seriously.

01:07:46 ◼   ► But it was risky.

01:07:47 ◼   ► Look, if you don't have any guts in your risky pick, you're not doing it right.

01:07:52 ◼   ► But there's this gut, sir.

01:07:53 ◼   ► I mean, look at the gut.

01:07:54 ◼   ► I mean, this is reckless.

01:07:57 ◼   ► It's not having guts.

01:07:58 ◼   ► This is just...

01:07:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:00 ◼   ► Like, and even for you, the guy who, you know, runs on a bike and falls in a, you know, and

01:08:06 ◼   ► the waterfall and the rocks and all the things you do.

01:08:08 ◼   ► That's true.

01:08:09 ◼   ► This is reckless, even for you.

01:08:11 ◼   ► So...

01:08:12 ◼   ► Genuine question.

01:08:13 ◼   ► Have you broke anything in the last couple of, like, is anything broken?

01:08:16 ◼   ► Mm-mm.

01:08:18 ◼   ► You sure?

01:08:19 ◼   ► Yeah, I haven't broken anything.

01:08:20 ◼   ► All right, just the way you answered,

01:08:21 ◼   ► it seemed like you were trying to hide something.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Have you broken any hearts, Stephen?

01:08:25 ◼   ► Oh, he's always breaking hearts, that guy, you know?

01:08:29 ◼   ► Always breaking hearts.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Yeah, there's no changes.

01:08:31 ◼   ► They didn't do anything, right?

01:08:32 ◼   ► I can't believe this.

01:08:33 ◼   ► I'm furious about this, that they are continuing with Mac OS

01:08:39 ◼   ► Ventura to--

01:08:40 ◼   ► that's what I've decided to say, by the way.

01:08:42 ◼   ► It's fun.

01:08:42 ◼   ► OK.

01:08:43 ◼   ► They have decided to keep the notifications and widgets

01:08:45 ◼   ► exactly the same it's like what are you doing it's terrible it's such a bummer

01:08:50 ◼   ► yeah that's terrible but Myke my friend yeah boy my dear friend guts walk us

01:08:58 ◼   ► through every single point the peak that was supposed to be locked in for sure

01:09:05 ◼   ► they are going to do this Apple gives a sneak peek of the new Mac Pro and they

01:09:11 ◼   ► They sneak peeked so many things, right?

01:09:14 ◼   ► But not this one, which is something they have already confirmed.

01:09:18 ◼   ► They will show us, but yet they have not yet done it.

01:09:21 ◼   ► They sneak peeked a bananas version of CarPlay, but not this.

01:09:25 ◼   ► By the way, that looks wild, right?

01:09:28 ◼   ► Like that's what the car team has been doing.

01:09:30 ◼   ► I want to come back to that in a second.

01:09:32 ◼   ► Yeah, because it's kind of a, kind of really strange in places, like some really questionable

01:09:38 ◼   ► decisions I think in that CarPlay UI.

01:09:40 ◼   ► Alright, let me read this and we'll talk what let's read this set all the thing and then we'll do that

01:09:45 ◼   ► Okay, okay. Okay. You want you need to start do you like we gotta go now? I

01:09:51 ◼   ► Thought there's so many we could round robin the sub picks. All right, here we go

01:09:56 ◼   ► Okay, Apple gives a sneak peek of the new Mac Pro

01:09:59 ◼   ► It features a case design inspired by the 2019 Mac Pro it features more parts than any other Apple silicon Mac available today

01:10:05 ◼   ► It does not have support for third-party GPUs

01:10:08 ◼   ► It features a chip name that has not appeared in any other product as starting price to six thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars

01:10:13 ◼   ► And it's coming later this year

01:10:15 ◼   ► It's all fake it's all fake news it's fiction it's a apple silicon fanfiction

01:10:23 ◼   ► Not a word not a peep no

01:10:32 ◼   ► Okay, do you want to go at carplay or do we settle the Ricky's now? Okay, let's settle the Ricky's.

01:10:37 ◼   ► The final score.

01:10:40 ◼   ► Federico has one point.

01:10:42 ◼   ► I have zero points. No, we have two. I have two points. Oh, no. What? Wrong. You have done it.

01:10:50 ◼   ► You've done a terrible job. Oh, wait. No. Yeah, I forgot how the risk... I should listen to the rules.

01:10:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm literally using the website to

01:10:58 ◼   ► calculate these. Okay. I should have listened to the rules because obviously we all lose

01:11:01 ◼   ► points because of our risky picks. Federico has one point. I have zero points. Myke has

01:11:06 ◼   ► one point. So we need to coin toss between the two of you. Everyone in the chat is getting

01:11:12 ◼   ► upset at me for not remembering the rules. I have COVID. All right. You got to leave

01:11:15 ◼   ► me alone. My brain, the guy's on his death bed. Okay. Just exactly. My brain is full

01:11:21 ◼   ► of who knows what right now, you know, viruses. Yeah. There's all sorts of weird fish all

01:11:26 ◼   ► up in me yeah I'm 5g I got 5g Bill Gates is all up in here you know what I'm

01:11:32 ◼   ► saying leave me alone apparently not enough 5g that's true

01:11:35 ◼   ► I wish I could have added another booster so let me get my phone and I'm gonna coin

01:11:40 ◼   ► toss between the two of you want to do it oh yeah I guess you should do it

01:11:43 ◼   ► right yeah yeah I should do it because I'm the third party here so hang on do

01:11:46 ◼   ► you have the current test flight yeah I've got the latest build I'm getting my phone hang on

01:11:51 ◼   ► Federico, how do you feel about going up against the coin flip king?

01:11:55 ◼   ► I feel like I'm going to win this time.

01:11:58 ◼   ► Can you imagine if this like one of the side effects of COVID is I lose my luck for coin flips?

01:12:04 ◼   ► James Thompson came to me in a dream.

01:12:07 ◼   ► And what did he say?

01:12:08 ◼   ► Told me I was going to win the coin flip. Told me I was going to, you know, I cannot, I cannot, I cannot make James accent myself.

01:12:17 ◼   ► Try it though.

01:12:18 ◼   ► - It's got a very... - What's your best Scottish accent?

01:12:21 ◼   ► No, I am unable to. I'm unable to. My tongue doesn't move like that.

01:12:28 ◼   ► I don't know how to make those sounds.

01:12:31 ◼   ► Do you know anything that Scottish people say, though?

01:12:34 ◼   ► Scottish people...

01:12:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Well, I think the only Scottish person I know besides James was Desmond from Lost, the TV show.

01:12:48 ◼   ► And he kept saying, "See you in another life, brother."

01:12:51 ◼   ► But that's not really Scottish, isn't it?

01:12:54 ◼   ► You know.

01:12:55 ◼   ► That was really good. No, I've never heard a Scottish person say that before.

01:12:58 ◼   ► I don't think that's a thing.

01:12:59 ◼   ► I'm sure that was the Americanized version of a Scottish person, so...

01:13:03 ◼   ► I feel like if James came to you in a dream, this is collusion?

01:13:07 ◼   ► No.

01:13:08 ◼   ► This feels like collusion.

01:13:10 ◼   ► It was a...

01:13:11 ◼   ► It was a regulated dream.

01:13:14 ◼   ► No collusion.

01:13:15 ◼   ► No collusion whatsoever.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Perfect dream.

01:13:17 ◼   ► Yeah. I would say that Myke is heads. Okay. Why? Why is it? Why are you choosing for us?

01:13:26 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like it's one of us has to choose. I don't know. What have you choose? You have

01:13:30 ◼   ► to choose who chooses. You have to choose the choosing. Federica. Federica, you were

01:13:35 ◼   ► the chooser. Yes. Heads. Okay. And that's the side of the coin with the teal band around

01:13:40 ◼   ► it, right? Who knows what James has done? Who knows what James has done? You know, it

01:13:44 ◼   ► It could be anything in there.

01:13:45 ◼   ► You might flip it and it's a glass flyer.

01:13:47 ◼   ► - Which size is the head?

01:13:48 ◼   ► - You'll find out.

01:13:49 ◼   ► The app will tell you.

01:13:50 ◼   ► Just press the, this is why you shouldn't be trusted

01:13:52 ◼   ► with this.

01:13:53 ◼   ► This has taken you so long.

01:13:54 ◼   ► - Are you ready?

01:13:56 ◼   ► - Yes, we're ready like 10 minutes ago.

01:13:57 ◼   ► - I've never done this before.

01:13:59 ◼   ► - I can tell.

01:14:01 ◼   ► - Calm down.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Okay, here we go.

01:14:03 ◼   ► - Due to situations beyond my control,

01:14:09 ◼   ► this placeholder voice isn't that of a real human being.

01:14:13 ◼   ► I'm actually at least 500% better. It's heads.

01:14:16 ◼   ► Yes! Thank you, robot! I knew it! I knew it!

01:14:21 ◼   ► I was screwed by GLaDOS.

01:14:23 ◼   ► I knew it.

01:14:25 ◼   ► That's no way to live.

01:14:25 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:14:26 ◼   ► This is collusion. This is collusion.

01:14:29 ◼   ► I knew that Dream Thompson was right.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Dream?

01:14:34 ◼   ► Dream Tho- Dream Thompson said to me, "Federico, I cannot make a Scottish accent, I'm sorry.

01:14:41 ◼   ► you are going to win the coming flip. Federico? Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Congratulations. I'm sorry. I kind of wanted you to win. It's kind of unfair really when

01:14:54 ◼   ► you think about it, right? Like a guy on his deathbed, you take the win from him. You gotta

01:14:58 ◼   ► stop saying that. You have to stop. Federico started it, right? So now I'm going to do

01:15:03 ◼   ► so my chest is burning right now. You know that? That's how I'm feeling. I keep getting

01:15:07 ◼   ► It hurts a lot, you know.

01:15:10 ◼   ► This is hard work, I'm here, you know.

01:15:12 ◼   ► I feel like people need to appreciate me more, but...

01:15:15 ◼   ► We appreciate you, but you know...

01:15:17 ◼   ► Not you two, I know you two appreciate me.

01:15:19 ◼   ► Even though you feel like you should steal the win from me, you know what I'm saying?

01:15:22 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, now I feel bad if you...

01:15:25 ◼   ► I'd just like to say, my wife is in the Discord and has requested that we all stop saying that phrase.

01:15:30 ◼   ► So I think, I feel like now we kind of have to appreciate what she's requesting.

01:15:35 ◼   ► Requesting so we have now put a moratorium on that phrase so carplay

01:15:39 ◼   ► coming

01:15:41 ◼   ► late next year

01:15:43 ◼   ► really far out

01:15:45 ◼   ► You know a lot of modern cars have more than just the central

01:15:49 ◼   ► infotainment

01:15:51 ◼   ► infotainment screen they have

01:15:53 ◼   ► digital dashes and multiple displays

01:15:56 ◼   ► Go look at photos of like the new

01:16:00 ◼   ► Kia or hondai electric SUVs. It's a good example

01:16:04 ◼   ► I think multiple screens and what Apple has laid out here is a vision for what

01:16:11 ◼   ► carplay could look like extending further and further and they've done

01:16:15 ◼   ► some of that in the current carplay but this is really a rethinking of it where

01:16:20 ◼   ► it can replace the entire digital dash and carplay will be interacting with

01:16:26 ◼   ► sensors and information coming from the car itself so carplay would be able to

01:16:31 ◼   ► show speed and fuel or charge level, mileage, all of these things. And I think

01:16:39 ◼   ► at least at this point, like we can quibble about details in the UI and

01:16:43 ◼   ► there's definitely things to wonder about and some of their layouts and

01:16:46 ◼   ► design, but I think it's mostly conceptual at this point, which makes it

01:16:50 ◼   ► even weirder to show it off. My only thought as of why we saw it is that if

01:16:56 ◼   ► they are going to car makers, it will leak and they would rather show it off

01:17:02 ◼   ► themselves than it leak out due to some like engineer at Audi posting a picture

01:17:07 ◼   ► on Instagram. But it's weird. I think it looks nice. Yeah, I thought it was weird. I

01:17:13 ◼   ► thought it was weird that they have some info like the music all the way to

01:17:19 ◼   ► the right side where the passenger is. Like, who wants that? Like, if I want... I think

01:17:24 ◼   ► I think all of that's like the concept part,

01:17:27 ◼   ► and I would imagine that it would be mostly customizable.

01:17:30 ◼   ► I think the details are like not worth getting into

01:17:33 ◼   ► in the designs at this point, 'cause it's so far out.

01:17:36 ◼   ► - Just as well, like in cars that have those kinds

01:17:39 ◼   ► of screens, that side is controllable, like customizable

01:17:44 ◼   ► by the person who's over there, right?

01:17:46 ◼   ► So like you could imagine that like the passengers decided

01:17:48 ◼   ► they want the music there.

01:17:50 ◼   ► - And that's already happening in some cars now.

01:17:53 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:17:53 ◼   ► So it's Apple getting on board with where car makers are going.

01:18:00 ◼   ► To me it's totally foreign because in my truck it's like a tiny little third party carplay

01:18:04 ◼   ► screen that's like seven inches across or something.

01:18:08 ◼   ► But in new, especially higher end cars, more and more the entire dash is becoming a screen.

01:18:14 ◼   ► I mean some of the new Lincolns are like, I think they in particular have boasted about,

01:18:18 ◼   ► you know, it's like we have 48 inches of screen in front of you.

01:18:22 ◼   ► And we could talk about whether that's a good idea or not.

01:18:25 ◼   ► I kind of think maybe it's not.

01:18:27 ◼   ► But Apple wants to be available on all of those screens.

01:18:31 ◼   ► And so that's what they're showing off.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Federico, what do you not like about it?

01:18:35 ◼   ► Not just that thing.

01:18:36 ◼   ► I thought that some placements were a bit strange.

01:18:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I would agree with you.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Like if you're in the car, what song's playing?

01:18:46 ◼   ► And you have to like look into the right wing mirror.

01:18:49 ◼   ► But yeah, you'd hope it's pretty customizable.

01:18:53 ◼   ► I think this is a bold thing to do, to be like, we're going to show you your speed and

01:18:58 ◼   ► all that kind of stuff, right?

01:19:00 ◼   ► Like that is, we're really getting into the weeds now on the information and you kind

01:19:06 ◼   ► of hope that they do a good job of displaying it.

01:19:09 ◼   ► But this would be a thing where like, if I was in the market for a car in 2023, I look

01:19:15 ◼   ► at this and I'm like, even more now would I, I think I would want CarPlay, EnableCar

01:19:21 ◼   ► to get some of these features. I mean, again, I don't know, I don't drive, but like, the

01:19:25 ◼   ► way they've got the maps with the like the speedometer overlaid and stuff, I think that

01:19:30 ◼   ► looks really nice. I don't know how useful it is.

01:19:33 ◼   ► And some other car main factors have done that on their own. But the idea here is let

01:19:38 ◼   ► your iPhone run it all. The other thing I would say about CarPlay is they said that

01:19:45 ◼   ► available in 98% of new vehicles sold in the United States. Elon...

01:19:52 ◼   ► That doesn't make sense to me. From the way that everybody talks about it, it seems like

01:19:56 ◼   ► loads of Tesla's are sold. Tesla's are only like a percentage, 1% of new cars.

01:20:02 ◼   ► There are a lot here in California, like they're everywhere, but out in the real country like

01:20:07 ◼   ► it's...

01:20:10 ◼   ► So they are massive percentages of certain markets.

01:20:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, and like people we know who listen

01:20:15 ◼   ► to fancy Apple podcasts, you know, it's a bigger,

01:20:18 ◼   ► and I think they have bigger mind share

01:20:20 ◼   ► than they do market share.

01:20:21 ◼   ► - They gotta add this Tesla, man.

01:20:22 ◼   ► Like it looks like Apple even made a version

01:20:24 ◼   ► for the Tesla screen.

01:20:25 ◼   ► - I know, it's ridiculous.

01:20:26 ◼   ► And then they also said 80% of people consider carplay

01:20:29 ◼   ► a must have when shopping for a car,

01:20:32 ◼   ► which I definitely agree with.

01:20:33 ◼   ► - That felt like straight out of the presentation

01:20:35 ◼   ► they give to car manufacturers.

01:20:37 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that was a straight copy and paste.

01:20:39 ◼   ► But you know, for us, like, I mean,

01:20:41 ◼   ► I retrofitted it into my truck,

01:20:43 ◼   ► but when we bought my wife's car a couple of years ago,

01:20:46 ◼   ► it was on her list.

01:20:47 ◼   ► She was like, she wanted something with CarPlay.

01:20:49 ◼   ► And clearly a lot of people will think that way.

01:20:52 ◼   ► And Apple is adapting CarPlay for this future,

01:20:56 ◼   ► whether we like it or not,

01:20:57 ◼   ► whether you think it's a good idea or not,

01:20:59 ◼   ► they are adapting to be more usable in this future

01:21:04 ◼   ► where CarPlay started and cars kind of like mine

01:21:08 ◼   ► like a central screen, you know, seven to 10 inches,

01:21:11 ◼   ► put CarPlay there, but now they have to adapt

01:21:14 ◼   ► to this world where more and more vehicles

01:21:16 ◼   ► are like rolling video games.

01:21:19 ◼   ► - We didn't do the closing ceremonies,

01:21:22 ◼   ► but I guess we can't.

01:21:24 ◼   ► I haven't even got my, didn't bring my turkey with me.

01:21:28 ◼   ► So again-- - Well, nothing changed.

01:21:30 ◼   ► Anyways.

01:21:31 ◼   ► - Oh, of course it didn't.

01:21:32 ◼   ► So I guess the closing, hang on,

01:21:33 ◼   ► I'm just gonna clap for Federico.

01:21:35 ◼   ► (clapping)

01:21:36 ◼   ► - Thank you. - Good job Federico.

01:21:38 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:21:39 ◼   ► Good win.

01:21:40 ◼   ► Good win.

01:21:41 ◼   ► I'm actually happy that you won because my tapback thing really kind of just skated in

01:21:45 ◼   ► there so like it would have felt like I don't know some kind of hollow victory.

01:21:48 ◼   ► I would have taken it right but I'm happy you won.

01:21:51 ◼   ► If it couldn't be me I'm happy it's you.

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01:24:17 ◼   ► That's I-O-D-Y-N-E.com.

01:24:20 ◼   ► There's a link in the show notes.

01:24:22 ◼   ► Our thanks to iDyne for their support of the show

01:24:25 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

01:24:26 ◼   ► - It's felt like a very Steven product to me

01:24:29 ◼   ► when they came in, I was like,

01:24:31 ◼   ► this has got Hackett written all over it.

01:24:33 ◼   ► - I really want one.

01:24:34 ◼   ► - I'm sure you do.

01:24:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:24:38 ◼   ► - All right, it is time for the Flexis.

01:24:40 ◼   ► The Flexis is a game held after each edition of the Rookies.

01:24:44 ◼   ► It consists of a series of additional picks

01:24:46 ◼   ► in relation to the upcoming Apple event or year.

01:24:50 ◼   ► Scoring is completed separately from the main game,

01:24:52 ◼   ► but like the rookies, the order of picks

01:24:54 ◼   ► is set by the results of the previous game,

01:24:57 ◼   ► and ties will be broken by using dice by Peacock,

01:25:00 ◼   ► which I totally know how to use now.

01:25:02 ◼   ► Please lie down as the rules are read.

01:25:04 ◼   ► - I am actually going to take a lie down for a second,

01:25:08 ◼   ► but to do that, I have to unplug my headphones,

01:25:10 ◼   ► so I'll just arrive.

01:25:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, count to 30.

01:25:13 ◼   ► - I'm gonna take a guess, I'm gonna take a guess.

01:25:15 ◼   ► (dramatic music)

01:25:18 ◼   ► Hosts must make a minimum of five flexi picks.

01:25:26 ◼   ► Each correct pick is awarded with one point.

01:25:28 ◼   ► Wrong picks do not remove any points, and no partial points may be awarded.

01:25:32 ◼   ► The winner is determined by comparing the percentage of correct flexis made by each

01:25:37 ◼   ► host.

01:25:38 ◼   ► While there are no Twitter handles on the line in the flexis, the winner can use their

01:25:41 ◼   ► chosen title as long as they are the winner.

01:25:44 ◼   ► Federico shall be named Prince Flexi.

01:25:46 ◼   ► Myke has chosen Duke of Flexington, and I am the Attorney General Flexi.

01:25:52 ◼   ► Loser of the Flexis must compensate the winner of the Flexis by donating to a charity of

01:25:56 ◼   ► the winner's choice.

01:25:57 ◼   ► The amount of the donation is $25 per wrong Flexi made by the loser, and the money must

01:26:03 ◼   ► be donated on air.

01:26:06 ◼   ► Please be seated.

01:26:07 ◼   ► Well, just go ahead.

01:26:10 ◼   ► It'll reach us at some point.

01:26:12 ◼   ► He'll show up.

01:26:13 ◼   ► So I'm the Attorney Flexi General, so I get to go first.

01:26:15 ◼   ► I'm back.

01:26:17 ◼   ► Oh, hello.

01:26:18 ◼   ► I made it in time.

01:26:19 ◼   ► I'm getting ready to read my Flexis.

01:26:21 ◼   ► Flexi number one.

01:26:24 ◼   ► A presenter references the fact that some developers

01:26:27 ◼   ► are at Apple Park for the keynote.

01:26:29 ◼   ► Ding!

01:26:30 ◼   ► This was not in the stream, not in the keynote itself,

01:26:34 ◼   ► but it was 100% referenced by a presenter,

01:26:37 ◼   ► Tim and Craig came out on stage in the beginning.

01:26:39 ◼   ► Okay.

01:26:40 ◼   ► This is fundamentally different from Myke's pick later on.

01:26:43 ◼   ► Well, we'll see.

01:26:45 ◼   ► Number two, AR specific features are added to Swift

01:26:48 ◼   ► or Swift UI.

01:26:49 ◼   ► So not mentioned in the keynote,

01:26:50 ◼   ► but it is mentioned on Apple's developer site.

01:26:55 ◼   ► If you scroll down, there are some additions

01:27:00 ◼   ► within the ARKit 6 release.

01:27:04 ◼   ► And specifically mentioned is RoomPlan,

01:27:07 ◼   ► which we mentioned earlier in the show.

01:27:08 ◼   ► - You did the work, huh?

01:27:09 ◼   ► You're putting the miles in on these flexes.

01:27:11 ◼   ► powered by ARKit room plan is a new Swift API

01:27:16 ◼   ► that utilizes the camera and LIDAR scanner

01:27:18 ◼   ► to create a 3D floor plan of a room.

01:27:21 ◼   ► So there we go.

01:27:22 ◼   ► At least one iOS system map is redesigned

01:27:26 ◼   ► to bring its controls to the bottom of the screen.

01:27:28 ◼   ► I would argue that lock screen,

01:27:30 ◼   ► the lock screen is part of this.

01:27:32 ◼   ► - What do you think it's an app?

01:27:34 ◼   ► - It's not. - What do you think it's an app?

01:27:35 ◼   ► - But it's part of Springboard, which is like-

01:27:37 ◼   ► - Nah, get out of here.

01:27:38 ◼   ► Don't even come at me with that nonsense.

01:27:40 ◼   ► Don't start saying springboard.

01:27:42 ◼   ► People only say springboard when they got a point to prove

01:27:45 ◼   ► or they want to show how smart they are.

01:27:47 ◼   ► - I know code names, backboard, springboard.

01:27:50 ◼   ► - Come on.

01:27:51 ◼   ► - Whoa, what's next?

01:27:52 ◼   ► You're gonna thank the people in MarCom?

01:27:55 ◼   ► What are you gonna do?

01:27:57 ◼   ► - You said app, you said app.

01:27:59 ◼   ► It's not an app.

01:28:01 ◼   ► - Great point from Kate.

01:28:02 ◼   ► Is it in the app library?

01:28:03 ◼   ► - Find your springboard in there, go on.

01:28:05 ◼   ► Search for it.

01:28:06 ◼   ► Does it come up?

01:28:07 ◼   ► No.

01:28:08 ◼   ► - Ridiculous.

01:28:09 ◼   ► the lock screen even part of springboard anyway?

01:28:11 ◼   ► - I think it is.

01:28:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, how do you know?

01:28:13 ◼   ► How do you know?

01:28:14 ◼   ► Which springboard team are you on at Apple, Stephen?

01:28:19 ◼   ► - I saw a springboard engineer talk about it, so I--

01:28:21 ◼   ► - No.

01:28:22 ◼   ► - Fine, fine.

01:28:23 ◼   ► If you don't wanna give it to me, that's fine.

01:28:26 ◼   ► But I protest.

01:28:27 ◼   ► - It says app.

01:28:29 ◼   ► - But the whole lock screen,

01:28:32 ◼   ► the whole first part of the phone,

01:28:34 ◼   ► redesigned to bring everything to the bottom.

01:28:36 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:28:37 ◼   ► it's bigger than an app. And you shouldn't have said app should you?

01:28:41 ◼   ► Apple classical music services announced no Mac OS 13 is called mammoth no Apple

01:28:48 ◼   ► announces the first m2 Mac. I got one and a half first Macs the new MacBook Air

01:28:56 ◼   ► which is beautiful and the completely ridiculous and un physically unchanged

01:29:03 ◼   ► Sorry, Steven. For that pic, don't get upset. It's in our rules. Any information used in

01:29:09 ◼   ► scoring must be publicly verifiable at the time of recording. So, is it publicly verifiable

01:29:16 ◼   ► that the customizable lock screen is an app?

01:29:18 ◼   ► I mean, James Thompson said yes.

01:29:20 ◼   ► What's James, though?

01:29:22 ◼   ► James Thompson is not a...

01:29:24 ◼   ► James Thompson is not a...

01:29:25 ◼   ► Okay, well, look. If you're listening live and you're an Apple engineer who can answer

01:29:28 ◼   ► this in the next three minutes, please get in touch.

01:29:31 ◼   ► - But they have to answer in public.

01:29:32 ◼   ► Remember this is the rule

01:29:33 ◼   ► 'cause Federico got some secret messages and we can--

01:29:36 ◼   ► - Send me a tweet.

01:29:37 ◼   ► Send me a tweet.

01:29:39 ◼   ► So the M2 Max.

01:29:40 ◼   ► The M2 is a incremental but impressive update over the M1.

01:29:45 ◼   ► 20% faster CPU.

01:29:48 ◼   ► I forget what the GPU number is, but it's even better.

01:29:51 ◼   ► The M2 13-inch MacBook Pro has the touch bar.

01:29:56 ◼   ► It does not have MagSafe.

01:29:58 ◼   ► It is the same 13-inch MacBook Pro we've had for too long.

01:30:03 ◼   ► I do not know why it exists.

01:30:05 ◼   ► It's only $100 more than the M2 MacBook Air.

01:30:08 ◼   ► This would have been the perfect time to kill it,

01:30:10 ◼   ► and it lives on.

01:30:10 ◼   ► - Price points, it's price points, right?

01:30:12 ◼   ► It's all price points. - But it's only $100 more

01:30:15 ◼   ► than the MacBook Air.

01:30:16 ◼   ► - They love the price points.

01:30:17 ◼   ► It's, you know.

01:30:18 ◼   ► - It's bad.

01:30:20 ◼   ► No one should buy that computer.

01:30:21 ◼   ► - There are some Touch Bar devotees out there, right?

01:30:25 ◼   ► They want it.

01:30:26 ◼   ► The new MacBook Air slots in at $1,199.

01:30:29 ◼   ► So the M1 MacBook Air sticks around at $999.

01:30:32 ◼   ► They were unable to bring the M2 down in price to $999

01:30:36 ◼   ► for whatever reason.

01:30:38 ◼   ► But it's a really impressive looking machine.

01:30:41 ◼   ► So it is like a thinner MacBook Pro.

01:30:43 ◼   ► They've gotten rid of the wedge.

01:30:44 ◼   ► It looks super modern.

01:30:46 ◼   ► Y'all talked about this on upgrade,

01:30:47 ◼   ► but the finishes are dumb.

01:30:48 ◼   ► Like, why does Silver and Starlight and Space Gray

01:30:52 ◼   ► and Midnight all live together on the same product?

01:30:55 ◼   ► they're very subtly different from each other.

01:30:57 ◼   ► - When those colors are right there,

01:30:59 ◼   ► they're just right there, the iMac is right there.

01:31:02 ◼   ► Like I really can't get my head around this.

01:31:05 ◼   ► - It's a bummer, but I am really interested in this machine.

01:31:08 ◼   ► I think it's gonna do really well

01:31:09 ◼   ► and I hope to get my hands on one next month

01:31:12 ◼   ► when they are for sale.

01:31:13 ◼   ► - You wanna get one?

01:31:14 ◼   ► Do you want one just 'cause you want one

01:31:17 ◼   ► or do you want one 'cause you think

01:31:19 ◼   ► it would replace something?

01:31:20 ◼   ► Like what is your thought?

01:31:22 ◼   ► - I wanna check it out because the MacBook Air

01:31:24 ◼   ► the most popular Mac. And so, anyways, so at the end of my flexes, I have three out

01:31:32 ◼   ► of six correct. That puts me at 50%. Myke, can you do better?

01:31:36 ◼   ► We'll find out. One, Tim presents some portion of the keynote in front of a live audience.

01:31:42 ◼   ► Now I need to ask a question. Why did you get your part, but I didn't get mine? Why

01:31:47 ◼   ► do you get a present of references to the fact that some developers are at Apple Park

01:31:51 ◼   ► for the keynote? Why did you...

01:31:52 ◼   ► I would argue that this is...

01:31:54 ◼   ► Huh, is this a point?

01:31:57 ◼   ► I have publicly verifiable information.

01:32:00 ◼   ► Steve Trount Smith has sent me a tweet.

01:32:03 ◼   ► Poster board...

01:32:04 ◼   ► What does Steve Trount Smith know?

01:32:05 ◼   ► Listen, let me finish.

01:32:07 ◼   ► Poster board and paper board, the two new apps providing the lock screen and wallpaper

01:32:11 ◼   ► stuff in Iowa 16.

01:32:12 ◼   ► Damn it, Steve.

01:32:13 ◼   ► Couldn't you just keep quiet?

01:32:16 ◼   ► Show me this.

01:32:17 ◼   ► I don't believe it.

01:32:18 ◼   ► Show me this.

01:32:19 ◼   ► Here, I'll send you the tweet.

01:32:20 ◼   ► I'll put the tweet in Discord.

01:32:21 ◼   ► I don't know how Twitter works.

01:32:23 ◼   ► - The tweet is in Discord.

01:32:24 ◼   ► - But this is on the Mac.

01:32:25 ◼   ► What is this?

01:32:26 ◼   ► What's the Mac got to do with anything?

01:32:27 ◼   ► - The Mac includes a complete version of iOS

01:32:29 ◼   ► for Mac catalyst.

01:32:30 ◼   ► - Now it doesn't.

01:32:31 ◼   ► - Yes it, listen to me.

01:32:32 ◼   ► Yes it does.

01:32:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:32:34 ◼   ► - I just like how magic it is.

01:32:36 ◼   ► I like how--

01:32:36 ◼   ► - And for the iOS apps to run.

01:32:40 ◼   ► And so he's just poked around in there and there it is.

01:32:43 ◼   ► - Well, I have a question.

01:32:44 ◼   ► - I get the point.

01:32:45 ◼   ► - Which is maybe more aimed towards Steve Tran Smith

01:32:47 ◼   ► than you.

01:32:48 ◼   ► Why did Steve just tweet this like into the world

01:32:51 ◼   ► rather than at you.

01:32:52 ◼   ► - So more people see it.

01:32:54 ◼   ► - Because Steve is listening live

01:32:55 ◼   ► and he wants to bring the chaotic energy of--

01:32:58 ◼   ► - That's so funny.

01:32:59 ◼   ► He's just like, I'm just gonna put this out there.

01:33:02 ◼   ► Did he then send it to you directly

01:33:04 ◼   ► to make sure you saw it?

01:33:05 ◼   ► - He texted me the URL to the tweet.

01:33:08 ◼   ► - Steve, you're an agent of chaos.

01:33:09 ◼   ► All right, here's the thing.

01:33:10 ◼   ► All right, you can get that.

01:33:11 ◼   ► - So I'm now at 66.7%.

01:33:13 ◼   ► - Look, it's fine.

01:33:14 ◼   ► We now know, Steven, that you are one of those people

01:33:17 ◼   ► who go about in their lives finding loopholes.

01:33:22 ◼   ► - So you know what this is?

01:33:23 ◼   ► This is that Steven conspiracy.

01:33:25 ◼   ► They're all Stevens, right?

01:33:26 ◼   ► I'm assuming Steve is a Steven, right?

01:33:30 ◼   ► That's gonna be my natural assumption.

01:33:32 ◼   ► They're all ganging up.

01:33:33 ◼   ► But all right, so fine, you got that one.

01:33:35 ◼   ► Congratulations to you and your pick.

01:33:38 ◼   ► But now we need to go back to litigation.

01:33:40 ◼   ► Why do you get your pick one, but I don't get my pick one?

01:33:43 ◼   ► - 'Cause my pick was not about something in the keynote.

01:33:46 ◼   ► and yours says present some portion of the keynote.

01:33:48 ◼   ► The keynote was streamed.

01:33:50 ◼   ► There was no live-- - But for you,

01:33:51 ◼   ► for you as in the audience, when did the keynote begin?

01:33:54 ◼   ► Like, would you not say the keynote began

01:33:57 ◼   ► when Tim Cook came on stage?

01:33:58 ◼   ► - Up until that point,

01:34:00 ◼   ► Tim Cook is not technically a presenter.

01:34:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, what presenter?

01:34:03 ◼   ► - The keynote is what's in the YouTube video.

01:34:05 ◼   ► - Presenter of what?

01:34:06 ◼   ► - You know what, you know what, fine.

01:34:07 ◼   ► You know what, I-- - So, Steven,

01:34:08 ◼   ► if you get the point, Myke gets the point.

01:34:11 ◼   ► - You won't be gracious to me,

01:34:12 ◼   ► but I will be gracious to you.

01:34:13 ◼   ► I'll give you this.

01:34:14 ◼   ► - What do you mean, I'll be gracious to you?

01:34:16 ◼   ► - Who's not being crazy? - You didn't wanna give me a point that I deserved.

01:34:19 ◼   ► But you got it. We've given you it. And I'm giving you yours.

01:34:22 ◼   ► - Oh, I'm getting it? Fine, you can have it. - Okay, hold on, hold on.

01:34:24 ◼   ► No, hold on, hold on. Let's try to be objective about this.

01:34:28 ◼   ► - Okay. - If we were to be extremely objective with no feelings in the middle,

01:34:33 ◼   ► this is not a point for either of you.

01:34:36 ◼   ► Because technically, in that moment, the keynote has not started.

01:34:40 ◼   ► The keynote is what you can also watch at home.

01:34:43 ◼   ► So in that moment, Tim Cook is not a presenter.

01:34:45 ◼   ► In that moment, Tim Cook is the CEO of Apple.

01:34:48 ◼   ► Also for Myke, the same is true.

01:34:50 ◼   ► Tim presents some portion of the keynote

01:34:52 ◼   ► in front of a live audience?

01:34:54 ◼   ► No, because that's not the keynote.

01:34:56 ◼   ► - I'm actually leaning towards Federico,

01:34:58 ◼   ► neither of us should get these points.

01:34:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, but Federico benefits from us each losing point.

01:35:02 ◼   ► - No, no, I lose anyway.

01:35:05 ◼   ► No, I lose it.

01:35:07 ◼   ► No, guys, I...

01:35:09 ◼   ► - I think actually Federico has 10 flexies.

01:35:11 ◼   ► the likelihood of him being able to beat us seems very slim.

01:35:14 ◼   ► And one of them that you've marked as correct is not even correct.

01:35:18 ◼   ► So I don't...

01:35:19 ◼   ► Okay, so we'll get to that later on, I suppose.