The Accidental Tech Podcast

197: Life by a Thousand Hugs

 

  we should start tonight will by closing [TS]

  the loop [TS]

  I can't believe I just said that out [TS]

  loud I hate myself so hard we try that [TS]

  again [TS]

  come out of the parking lot the same [TS]

  thing is gonna go on the show [TS]

  oh yeah this is gonna go on the show and [TS]

  I hate myself so hard [TS]

  ok so we should start tonight by putting [TS]

  a period at the end of the sentence and [TS]

  that sentence being john what happened [TS]

  with your energy star sticker I was [TS]

  encouraged by lots of stories and [TS]

  pictures posted by people on the [TS]

  internet saying i have removed my energy [TS]

  star stare from LG monitor and it went [TS]

  ok didn't I tell you that during the [TS]

  episode [TS]

  yeah lots of people lots of people let [TS]

  me stick uh you know images of them [TS]

  doing it [TS]

  mm it's all the other people tell you [TS]

  that you believe them you don't believe [TS]

  me your co-host your good friend but you [TS]

  believe the randos on the internal I [TS]

  need like a certain you know it helps to [TS]

  have more people say it and some people [TS]

  are 14 person was like but I'm glad I [TS]

  don't have an energy star sticker on my [TS]

  monitor and they looked and found it so [TS]

  is this can you now we're on the topic [TS]

  can you please explain the phrase trust [TS]

  but verify [TS]

  to me that's cold war the reagan-era [TS]

  thing of like the trying to make it [TS]

  sound like he is cooperating with the [TS]

  USSR in disarmament talks but by the [TS]

  same token he is also still a strong [TS]

  cowboy who will bang bang us a [TS]

  cheeseburger cheeseburger [TS]

  so it's trust the fuck so how is that [TS]

  different from just not trusting people [TS]

  and just verifying everything anyway I [TS]

  told you how it's different it's [TS]

  different because it sounds like you're [TS]

  being trusting cooperative but at the [TS]

  same time you speak out of the other [TS]

  side of your mouth and say but I'm still [TS]

  a manly man who can beat up people so [TS]

  its trust but don't trust [TS]

  okay so it's not really trusting like [TS]

  your dishes are virtually spotless means [TS]

  your dishes have spots on them right so [TS]

  I I've heard this phrase i never i [TS]

  didn't know that was the origin / thank [TS]

  you for the history lesson I honestly [TS]

  don't know that that makes sense that [TS]

  would like a political doublespeak thing [TS]

  but I hear people use the phrase as a [TS]

  seeming as seemingly non-sarcastic [TS]

  directive so they just using it wrong [TS]

  hear you but what is the context of how [TS]

  does this connect energy star sticker [TS]

  it's almost like security well because [TS]

  you didn't trust Casey telling you that [TS]

  you [TS]

  to like get verification from everybody [TS]

  else no no I was just like I mean that's [TS]

  just one data point just helps to have [TS]

  more data points [TS]

  oh god as if i needed to trust Casey but [TS]

  verify [TS]

  like I needed more people because his [TS]

  monitors on the same as mine his [TS]

  stickers on the same with mine you know [TS]

  there are many different possibilities [TS]

  here and maybe he's not as picky about [TS]

  sticky stuff so trust but verify really [TS]

  just means don't trust anybody and [TS]

  verify everything to either that or just [TS]

  don't trust me that's what really got me [TS]

  if its doctrines case again and I don't [TS]

  even know if the Reagan USSR thing is [TS]

  the origin of it but that's that's what [TS]

  I know it from so anyway I emboldened by [TS]

  the internet and your good friend Casey [TS]

  list your part of the internet I i [TS]

  remove the sticker and everything went [TS]

  fine and there's no residue and thumbs [TS]

  up so don't trust your friend Casey but [TS]

  trust random strangers on Twitter right [TS]

  that's what I'm hearing [TS]

  Casey had waited if casey had waited [TS]

  until seven other people sent me [TS]

  pictures and then had said he would have [TS]

  been you know but not the straw that [TS]

  broke the camel's back whatever the good [TS]

  version of the disk this is not getting [TS]

  any better John this is just getting [TS]

  worse [TS]

  oh god alright so let's just move on [TS]

  while we still can [TS]

  I went to the apple store today we're [TS]

  still friends right [TS]

  I was the Apple Store today first and [TS]

  most importantly it infuriates me [TS]

  the fact that there is no obvious place [TS]

  to line up or q in order to pay for [TS]

  something I know we've spoken about this [TS]

  in the past maybe it's an East Coast [TS]

  thing maybe this is then maybe on the [TS]

  problem here but it drives me but no not [TS]

  the problem the Stars the problem I [TS]

  drives me bananas that I I can't just go [TS]

  somewhere in being an obvious line to [TS]

  pay for things [TS]

  why is that not a tracking introduced [TS]

  its button and then we recovered before [TS]

  I was like well you know that may bother [TS]

  you but for other people's marking me [TS]

  but I think the key issue here is that [TS]

  one that all five year olds have which [TS]

  is the tiny child version of conception [TS]

  of fairness which is like if I come in [TS]

  the store before somebody or if i decide [TS]

  to I'm ready to checkout and I make that [TS]

  decision before somebody else i should [TS]

  be served to you or somebody else and [TS]

  the way that usually solved his byline [TS]

  and yes there can be multiple lines and [TS]

  you feel like you picked the wrong line [TS]

  as all those little silly things to make [TS]

  you know that make you notice when you [TS]

  feel like you're getting cheated again [TS]

  more five-year-old versions of fairness [TS]

  but it's a big giant crowd and you come [TS]

  to a decision [TS]

  I know what I want to get its this now i [TS]

  need to give someone money for it I and [TS]

  then you are just wandering aimlessly [TS]

  with the feeling that people who made [TS]

  the decision after you are getting [TS]

  served before you because they happen to [TS]

  be closer to someone who's ready to [TS]

  serve them know and then there's the [TS]

  application that makes you feel like [TS]

  you're stealing where you can check [TS]

  yourself out and just overall we want to [TS]

  go back to the system that we know and [TS]

  love which is a line [TS]

  yep because i know i'll get a thousand [TS]

  tweets and emails i didn't use the apple [TS]

  store app because i was buying a gift [TS]

  certificate or gift card or whatever [TS]

  it's called where I was doing an [TS]

  arbitrary sum of money on that gift card [TS]

  which maybe there's a way to do it [TS]

  through the apple store app but I didn't [TS]

  want to leave any doubt that it would [TS]

  work so i wanted to wait for human being [TS]

  to help me and so anyway so it i just [TS]

  loiter do in in the worst party is so [TS]

  there was a a an employee working with a [TS]

  a customer who was getting like from the [TS]

  looks of it possibly a new phone [TS]

  possibly a new watch certainly a new [TS]

  watch band and so this is like a fairly [TS]

  intense process and I'm I'm in that like [TS]

  uncomfortable space where I I want to [TS]

  make it clear that i'm kind of forming [TS]

  my own line because I believe in order [TS]

  because i'm from the east coast and i [TS]

  want i want to make it obvious i'm [TS]

  waiting for this person that this [TS]

  employees help yet at the same time [TS]

  there's that like ATM buffer zone where [TS]

  you don't want to get too close to the [TS]

  customers business because that's not [TS]

  really appropriate and so I'm just kind [TS]

  of standing around in the middle of the [TS]

  store looking lost because basically [TS]

  that's what I am [TS]

  inside get my wallet out he didn't want [TS]

  to be tied to that person to love is [TS]

  you're also on the lookout for anybody [TS]

  else who might be able to help you [TS]

  sooner and again this is a problem that [TS]

  we've solved with the magic of lions is [TS]

  called the Express line if you're behind [TS]

  someone who's you know doing all their [TS]

  thanksgiving shopping and you know in a [TS]

  way you just want to buy two things you [TS]

  can in theory go to the Express line you [TS]

  know what I told encourages the app that [TS]

  makes you feel like you're stealing but [TS]

  anyway lines right lines do have their [TS]

  drawbacks but you were in a situation [TS]

  where you're like I'm gonna claim my [TS]

  spot by this guy just gets no one else [TS]

  is available but Ross exactly that [TS]

  someone else just finished checking [TS]

  someone out giving their ipod socks or [TS]

  whatever and they're ready to serve [TS]

  someone immediately and then that soma [TS]

  wander over to them and you like but I [TS]

  was ready five minutes ago but i'm not [TS]

  over there but I was waiting by this [TS]

  guy's like lines lines people yup [TS]

  if this fixes everything in so that's [TS]

  exactly what happened so my eyes are [TS]

  darting so fast i must have looked like [TS]

  i was learning something from from [TS]

  you're getting a download from the [TS]

  matrix or something like that cause my [TS]

  eyes are darting all over the place [TS]

  maybe they already know that they're not [TS]

  ready to castrate know that guys ready [TS]

  that woman is ready know that woman is [TS]

  already it was insane and so anyway so I [TS]

  did the like social cue of I got my [TS]

  wallet out and not only did I get my [TS]

  wallet in my hand so I have merchandise [TS]

  in one hand of Walden the other hand I [TS]

  actually removed my credit card from my [TS]

  wallet in part because I will always [TS]

  slightly beyond New Yorker and I want to [TS]

  take up as little time as possible in [TS]

  part because i just want to give the [TS]

  social cue of I'm ready to pay for this [TS]

  please [TS]

  anyway I bring all this up to say I [TS]

  tried to touch bar was and I was on an [TS]

  Apple store i was in there and I I when [TS]

  I was in there I'd for i forgot that the [TS]

  touch bar max would actually be there [TS]

  until I noticed one like oh yeah I [TS]

  should try that so i did as well I also [TS]

  did it go today or just recently for the [TS]

  last few days i bought one of course you [TS]

  did you want the I'm a worse i can't i'm [TS]

  just the worst [TS]

  I let the record show I stop myself from [TS]

  finishing that sentence anyway so i [TS]

  tried to touch bar I only tried it for [TS]

  about two or three minutes initial [TS]

  impressions i liked it i I don't like [TS]

  the presentation in the apple store and [TS]

  the reason I say that is I feel like in [TS]

  and maybe it's my height I don't feel [TS]

  like I'm a remarkably tall person I'm [TS]

  roughly six feet give or take an inch or [TS]

  two maybe 5 11 and I don't know what [TS]

  that is meters because I'm American in [TS]

  and i think that the the apples the [TS]

  apple stores tables are a bit too low [TS]

  and so the angle in which im looking at [TS]

  the touch bar is I think a bit too much [TS]

  so in other words i think generally [TS]

  speaking my head would be lower as [TS]

  compared to the the laptop if i was [TS]

  working and say a desk or something and [TS]

  so it looked like I can't describe it [TS]

  but it looked as though i was at the [TS]

  wrong viewing angle for the touch bar [TS]

  that being said I really liked it i [TS]

  think i can totally understand why [TS]

  someone would say oh it's a gimmick [TS]

  because it very well may be but I [TS]

  thought it was clever [TS]

  I thought it was well done there's [TS]

  things that I don't love about it [TS]

  for example I i want to say was maybe [TS]

  Jason's now I might have that wrong but [TS]

  somebody was saying on one of the [TS]

  podcast i was listening to lately that [TS]

  in safari there are previews of your [TS]

  different tabs that are open and that [TS]

  seems kind of silly to me I think titles [TS]

  would have perhaps been better [TS]

  maybe not I don't know i-i've i only use [TS]

  different couple minutes the Escape key [TS]

  i didn't have a problem mashing it by [TS]

  habit but it was disconcerting that I [TS]

  didn't feel a button press when I did it [TS]

  in a couple of times I caught the tilled [TS]

  a key which is an American keyboard [TS]

  directly below escape [TS]

  I caught that key instead of escape [TS]

  which was frustrating and I i also spent [TS]

  a little time typing on the keyboard and [TS]

  in case for some reason you want to wear [TS]

  because i don't know how much I've [TS]

  talked about on the show but I've talked [TS]

  about it on like Twitter and in my [TS]

  website incessantly i freaking love the [TS]

  magic keyboard the external keyboard [TS]

  that that Apple's currently selling for [TS]

  say I'm accent and whatnot i love that [TS]

  keyboard him to me it is my favorite [TS]

  keyboard ever ever ever [TS]

  bar none and the keyboard on the macbook [TS]

  pro to me and i'm curious to hear both [TS]

  year-old both your thoughts here in a [TS]

  moment to me the macbook pro keyboard [TS]

  was 80 ish percent of the way there but [TS]

  I felt like the key travel wasn't enough [TS]

  and that was very frustrating i think i [TS]

  could get past it [TS]

  but I really really wanted just a little [TS]

  bit more key travel and I think it would [TS]

  have made a world of difference to me [TS]

  so let's start with John since Marco you [TS]

  own one john what did you think I [TS]

  presume you at least typed on it for a [TS]

  few minutes what did you think of the [TS]

  key travel and also the touch bar didn't [TS]

  feel that different to me than the [TS]

  regular macbook one thing I did notice [TS]

  the I didn't notice the noise [TS]

  surprisingly maybe it's because I've [TS]

  read all the stories about and I was [TS]

  primed for it but i think i noticed any [TS]

  way that it was noisy and it did feel [TS]

  like stiffer and click here but not so [TS]

  much I do i do think I liked it better [TS]

  than the macbook one keyboard i hate [TS]

  laptop keyboards in general so it's hard [TS]

  for me to say like you know I think I [TS]

  said this about the macaron I just I [TS]

  just don't like typing on them ever like [TS]

  in the best case I just because the keys [TS]

  are you know it's always a little shape [TS]

  it doesn't have the keys that i wanted i [TS]

  just i don't like the controls not in [TS]

  the corner yes I know if your app to [TS]

  control capslock whatever anyway I don't [TS]

  like them as far as this one goes I'm [TS]

  glad it's an improvement over the [TS]

  macbook 1 i'm going to eventually have [TS]

  one of these for work but I quite [TS]

  honestly doubt i will ever type on it it [TS]

  work like I guess maybe at home in a [TS]

  meeting or something briefly but like i [TS]

  don't i don't use laptop don't find [TS]

  myself using laptops maybe that will [TS]

  change once I have this one for work and [TS]

  I'm bringing home and maybe I'll just [TS]

  find myself using it will see but for [TS]

  now I don't same thing with touch bar [TS]

  seemed fine kind of interesting what [TS]

  keyboard do you currently use at work or [TS]

  what do you expect to be using it work [TS]

  Apple extended aluminum that's what i've [TS]

  been using for many years now and I and [TS]

  I was Apple extended to for many many [TS]

  years ago I had to give that up for RSI [TS]

  reasons because the keys require more [TS]

  force depressed and I find keys that [TS]

  require less force the press are easier [TS]

  on my hands and that's why i like the [TS]

  apple-woman extended because the keys [TS]

  are seem very easy to hit that was there [TS]

  was one of the things about the both the [TS]

  macbook one and this one like the low [TS]

  travel maybe I'm pressing harder than I [TS]

  need to but it feels almost like being [TS]

  your hands against just like the desk [TS]

  that doesn't move right like that it [TS]

  feels like there's more the form or the [TS]

  foursome putting in is bouncing back at [TS]

  me or maybe it's bouncing back quicker I [TS]

  don't know [TS]

  we're at the time on her for a long [TS]

  period of time to see if this is [TS]

  actually a thing [TS]

  yeah and then so the touch bar [TS]

  all right i mean it's basically what i [TS]

  thought it would be it was cute it looks [TS]

  nice i think the Escape key activation [TS]

  is reasonable i would still prefer [TS]

  regular key but I i think i would i [TS]

  would be excited to have a laptop with [TS]

  the sonic vs one without like it is a [TS]

  net plus to me in my mind having you [TS]

  again have been using it for five [TS]

  minutes like whatever the negatives are [TS]

  in there i think the positives [TS]

  overwhelming so I think this is a good [TS]

  addition to apples laptop line [TS]

  Marco so regarding the keyboard it [TS]

  doesn't feel that different from the [TS]

  macbook one keyboard honestly I if you [TS]

  get a chance [TS]

  did either of you actually try to set [TS]

  aside the stores a lot of historical [TS]

  having like literally like there will be [TS]

  like an escape mathematical ones I did [TS]

  not [TS]

  yep I did run right from one to the [TS]

  other and like you could I could tell [TS]

  you the difference i could probably tell [TS]

  the difference with my ears plugged but [TS]

  definitely players open i could tell [TS]

  that they felt different but they both [TS]

  felt like that little keyboard doesn't [TS]

  move too much as a little cup keys they [TS]

  both felt like that exactly like i would [TS]

  say the macbook one keyboard kind of [TS]

  feels like what you'd expect the new [TS]

  macbook pro keyboard to feel like after [TS]

  five years of heavy use it almost feels [TS]

  like it's worn out he felt like it kind [TS]

  of lacks that kind of kickback the way [TS]

  the way to make the new macbook pro does [TS]

  because like I think the way Apple [TS]

  described it actually is as pretty as a [TS]

  pretty good accurate description which [TS]

  is like you know it's the same key [TS]

  travel but it has more feedback like it [TS]

  feels better but it's still very very [TS]

  shallow keyboard i still don't like it [TS]

  but after a few days that so far and I [TS]

  traveled with it and I you know I did a [TS]

  lot of coding on the plane and [TS]

  everything I took a lot of notes about [TS]

  the computer on the computer lots of [TS]

  typing it's fine [TS]

  I i think this is one of many areas [TS]

  where Jason L is right it's fine i can [TS]

  use it but I don't like it it's better [TS]

  enough in the macbook one keyboard that [TS]

  I would not not get this computer just [TS]

  for that if that makes sense i think [TS]

  there's a big one of the biggest [TS]

  improvements over the macbook one [TS]

  keyboard not so much like how it feels [TS]

  and touchy-feely stuff but [TS]

  just practically speaking again for the [TS]

  real time i was typing my problem with [TS]

  the macbook one keyboard was often [TS]

  because there's so little travel and [TS]

  because the keys are sunken in [TS]

  it wasn't always easy to be sure that i [TS]

  have successfully activated a key right [TS]

  because sometimes you go to hit it and [TS]

  you can't tell you hit because your [TS]

  fingers up and down but it goes up and [TS]

  down like two little and the new one has [TS]

  such a much more positive like you have [TS]

  press this key and you'll know it [TS]

  because cut clack right whereas if you [TS]

  go forward and don't quite hit because [TS]

  you didn't apply enough force you won't [TS]

  get the clock and so I felt them a new [TS]

  one maybe it's a psychological that I [TS]

  could tell when I had a key and I could [TS]

  tell when I didn't successfully hid a [TS]

  key in a way that was harder for me to [TS]

  tell the macbook one keyboard [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah i agree with that it is [TS]

  totally fine i will also point out that [TS]

  while we're on the subject of the noise [TS]

  the macbook pro keyboard is not only [TS]

  loud like noticeably loud like even if [TS]

  noticed even like in the same really wow [TS]

  that is loud but I i also think that the [TS]

  sound it makes is particularly [TS]

  ungraceful it it almost sounds like [TS]

  you're tapping your fingers on plastic [TS]

  tub [TS]

  it's like it's really a like I would do [TS]

  an average you know i'm i'm not going to [TS]

  convey it but it's like even a good [TS]

  already did it [TS]

  it really does not sound good sounds of [TS]

  it sounds very cheap and doesn't sound [TS]

  like something is working the way it [TS]

  should be working [TS]

  I don't think it sounds cheap i think it [TS]

  sounds sharp like I think it sounds like [TS]

  a precision piece of machinery like but [TS]

  I I I don't think it's that doesn't [TS]

  sound or feel cheap in fact that's one [TS]

  of things a lot of people said about and [TS]

  I agree that this keyboard feels solid [TS]

  like it doesn't the key caps don't [TS]

  wiggle around like they do on the one in [TS]

  my Apple extended aluminum and other [TS]

  ones like feels very solid and when you [TS]

  type it's like it's like a sharp little [TS]

  punch right little metal punch which is [TS]

  not a pleasant sound if you're in the [TS]

  room but i think it doesn't feel cheap [TS]

  now it doesn't feel to it sounds cheap [TS]

  it feels like a mediocre keyboard and I [TS]

  mean people get used to like that the [TS]

  problem anything for the volume is like [TS]

  no matter what sound it makes if it's if [TS]

  it's more sound than your other one was [TS]

  that's a problem because people kind of [TS]

  develop their habits around i remember [TS]

  when i was on the Apple extended to like [TS]

  I would be typing you know two rooms [TS]

  away and will be like you you know [TS]

  like we're trying to sleep for like you [TS]

  can't do that I can't sleep it's wherein [TS]

  I negative square foot apartment [TS]

  you can't be typing right now because [TS]

  it's just too much like it's super loud [TS]

  and so in this situation if you sitting [TS]

  there on the couch and typing was on [TS]

  watch TV and this one crank up the [TS]

  volume just a little bit like I can't [TS]

  watch TV while you're doing that just [TS]

  stop typing [TS]

  well it's also it's much louder the way [TS]

  this time resident on my desk if it's in [TS]

  your lap it is still weird the lab but [TS]

  it is less so on a desk become [TS]

  substantially louder I could definitely [TS]

  see like if you share an office with [TS]

  people and you have a laptop on the desk [TS]

  and typing all day it's going to be very [TS]

  noticeable so you better hope that you [TS]

  upgrade everyone in the office at the [TS]

  same time these things that way nobody [TS]

  can blame you know just you respond to [TS]

  this week by pingdom the best monitoring [TS]

  service I've ever used start monitoring [TS]

  your wrists and service today at [TS]

  pingie.com / ATP get a 14-day free trial [TS]

  and use code Athi for twenty percent off [TS]

  your first invoice kingdom makes the web [TS]

  faster and more reliable for everyone by [TS]

  offering powerful easy-to-use monitoring [TS]

  tools and services for anybody with a [TS]

  website or web service you can for [TS]

  example monitor availability performance [TS]

  of your server database or website for [TS]

  more than 70 global test servers that [TS]

  Kingdom runs you know as developers that [TS]

  websites are becoming more and more [TS]

  sophisticated and often have several [TS]

  layers of dependencies and different [TS]

  complete complex interactions and of [TS]

  course you want to monitor all of them [TS]

  because of any one of those goes down or [TS]

  a slower anything else it can cause [TS]

  problems for you so Kingdom allows you [TS]

  to monitor any URL any interaction you [TS]

  want to of course things like cookies [TS]

  you can login for you and everything [TS]

  else you can monitor ecommerce check out [TS]

  forms you can monitor logging in search [TS]

  functionality and a whole lot more and [TS]

  they know stuff breaks all the time [TS]

  everyone pick it takes more than 13 [TS]

  million outages more than 400,000 per [TS]

  day so whether you're big or small this [TS]

  can affect you and you need pingdom to [TS]

  help you know when things go wrong so [TS]

  you can fix them and I i use pins and [TS]

  personally I use them for something [TS]

  ridiculous like eight years using back [TS]

  in Tumblr's everything since then I've [TS]

  used them because they're just fantastic [TS]

  long before they were a sponsor and i [TS]

  keep using them for all my stuff because [TS]

  i want to know when my stuff goes down I [TS]

  don't want to be hearing from people on [TS]

  Twitter that it's down I want to know [TS]

  before they do so i can fix it before [TS]

  two people see it so if you want that [TS]

  kind [TS]

  I think to which i highly recommend for [TS]

  anybody who runs a site or web service [TS]

  kingdom com / ATP 14-day free trial [TS]

  twenty percent off your first invoice [TS]

  with offer code ATP thanks to kingdom [TS]

  for sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah now Marco last i heard if i recall [TS]

  correctly you had ordered and then [TS]

  cancelled one but it appears you have [TS]

  now bought a new macbook pro so are you [TS]

  no longer a professional or you just [TS]

  slumming it [TS]

  well I had I had ordered the macbook [TS]

  escape and then cancel it because i [TS]

  wasn't that comfortable with how much is [TS]

  about to pay for it for the benefit was [TS]

  going to get my kind of got like 15 [TS]

  entry garlic what if i end up on any [TS]

  more more power or more screen space [TS]

  because it makes sense [TS]

  in summary not to go over this too much [TS]

  again but in summary basically i use [TS]

  them i use my mac for most of my stuff I [TS]

  don't travel very often when I do travel [TS]

  my needs are either almost nothing like [TS]

  if it's not like a working triple my [TS]

  needs are either almost nothing in which [TS]

  case I just need to make like just in [TS]

  case her goes down and I want like a [TS]

  second and fixing stuff or I might like [TS]

  to like light email Twitter work you [TS]

  know or it's a trip right where I intend [TS]

  to get work done or edit photos in which [TS]

  case i want the biggest most powerful [TS]

  screen I can get you know it's just like [TS]

  it not like even a 15-inch like you feel [TS]

  like I'm craftiness I want the biggest [TS]

  most powerful think i can and so my idea [TS]

  was well I'll just like you know leave [TS]

  those needs aside and get the cheapo [TS]

  13-inch one which is not that cheap [TS]

  especially went once you add any options [TS]

  to it and i decided to chicken out and [TS]

  instead the local business rep give me a [TS]

  good deal on the 15 inch so I got the [TS]

  15-inch and I got the the high-end [TS]

  in-store configuration so the 2.7 [TS]

  gigahertz in the 512 and then the radeon [TS]

  whatever 455 the reason I went with this [TS]

  first of all I was about to go on a kind [TS]

  of spur-of-the-moment trip and I wanted [TS]

  to test it out and I wanted to get some [TS]

  work done so I figured this would be a [TS]

  good time to test it and if I really [TS]

  hated like a return it but but I figured [TS]

  this would be good to test to talk about [TS]

  because really the the 15-inch macbook [TS]

  pro is the workhorse of so many [TS]

  industries especially software [TS]

  developers and especially with people [TS]

  who listen to the show [TS]

  I i would exactly like it is it is such [TS]

  the workhorse like it you like if you [TS]

  look around at WTC almost every computer [TS]

  you see is a 15-inch macbook pro yet [TS]

  like it is so this token if you look [TS]

  around like the office of any tech [TS]

  company look around what computers will [TS]

  actually using a huge portion of them [TS]

  are 15-inch macbook pros it's it is just [TS]

  an incredibly popular laptop among [TS]

  people who do the things I do and people [TS]

  listen to the show and read my site that [TS]

  I figured it would be useful for my [TS]

  personal brand to be able to talk about [TS]

  this computer intelligently and mike and [TS]

  i kind of wanted one just to see for [TS]

  myself to test the touch bar and just [TS]

  get some idea of where the mac is going [TS]

  also [TS]

  it was very painful for me to continue [TS]

  my old one because I i was constantly [TS]

  running out of disk space [TS]

  I i made the mistake of getting the base [TS]

  model before the base model 15-inch in [TS]

  general the base model 15-inch is the [TS]

  best deal in all of Apple computers by [TS]

  far it is the best deal it is like for [TS]

  what you get for the price it does not [TS]

  cheap but for what you get you get an [TS]

  amazing computer for that price and if [TS]

  you you know the price of the other 15 [TS]

  inch base model if you end up speaking [TS]

  up a 13-inch to be comparable it [TS]

  actually is almost the same price [TS]

  like if you if you spec if you're [TS]

  comfortable and ram and performance it [TS]

  is really about the same price for the [TS]

  so like if you have relatively moderate [TS]

  to high needs and you can afford the [TS]

  price of the 15 inch line i strongly [TS]

  suggest you go for the 15 inch line [TS]

  because it is just that good anyway so I [TS]

  went for it and yeah I've been trying [TS]

  for a few days now and a little little [TS]

  little under a week now and I travel [TS]

  with it i worked with it and it's pretty [TS]

  good it's not perfect but it's pretty [TS]

  good and I would say it's aight i'm [TS]

  actually consider maybe doing a YouTube [TS]

  video about it I don't know I it's hard [TS]

  to make videos so i might not but I it [TS]

  sits too long to go over all my [TS]

  impressions here but ok it's funny it's [TS]

  two-on-two overall my impressions are to [TS]

  our podcast I'm going to try to make a [TS]

  five-minute youtube video [TS]

  naturally ok so couple quick hits maybe [TS]

  just the first one or two things that [TS]

  jump to mind what do you really like [TS]

  about it or perhaps what do you like [TS]

  about it that you didn't expect to like [TS]

  about it [TS]

  they seem to have made substantial [TS]

  progress in making a quieter under [TS]

  moderate load this this is something [TS]

  that I haven't seen any reviews talk [TS]

  about but the the fan noise that both [TS]

  the the actual noise the fans make and [TS]

  and how loud the volume is it is [TS]

  substantially quieter and less [TS]

  noticeable the noise even if you're [TS]

  matching out all the cpu cores for a few [TS]

  minutes now after you know after a few [TS]

  minutes if you're still up for doing [TS]

  something like a hand breaker video and [TS]

  code where your maximum out for a long [TS]

  time then you will notice it they will [TS]

  spend up to a normal level then but it [TS]

  seems like what [TS]

  whatever thresholds they've made with [TS]

  the new thermal system the new fans [TS]

  whatever you know however they've [TS]

  designed this the you don't hear the fan [TS]

  if it's just being stressed for a minute [TS]

  or two and and things like if one core [TS]

  is being maxed out by some rogue process [TS]

  that's that's not working right [TS]

  all photos library for instance or [TS]

  Dropbox or iCloud his security iCloud [TS]

  keychain all these different things [TS]

  where you'll find like one process hot [TS]

  enough one of your cores I hundred [TS]

  percent in the old model that would [TS]

  usually cause the fan has been up [TS]

  audibly I in this one it doesn't like it [TS]

  if only one course being saturated you [TS]

  generally don't hear it if all they're [TS]

  being saturated you only hear after a [TS]

  few minutes so overall like it's [TS]

  surprisingly quite even quieter if you [TS]

  can keep it only using the integrated [TS]

  GPU which you can't force it to like [TS]

  like the like Cody Kriegers little [TS]

  utility graphics card status it can't [TS]

  force this computer to only use [TS]

  integrated at least not yet but it can [TS]

  tell you which one is using and which [TS]

  act like if it switches over to the [TS]

  discrete GPU it can tell you exactly [TS]

  which a process is demanding that and [TS]

  white students even if you can go quit [TS]

  that app for instance then then you can [TS]

  eliminate the need for that and it can [TS]

  also notify you with the associated [TS]

  system notifications when the switches [TS]

  take place if you want to [TS]

  so anyway it's nice to get ideas like [TS]

  what's going on and and wife anyway [TS]

  huge improvement to the cooling system i [TS]

  think it does still run very hot to the [TS]

  touch when it's loaded heavily so it's [TS]

  not like it's running at lower [TS]

  temperatures but just whatever whatever [TS]

  the cooling algorithms and designs are [TS]

  maybe because and and there's a whole [TS]

  new fan design that could have something [TS]

  to do with it but they've they've really [TS]

  made substantial progress there i'm very [TS]

  happy to say that because i really hate [TS]

  my pops get all lateral annoying with [TS]

  the fan when he talked to me know when [TS]

  you do anything two cpus ok what sucks [TS]

  I sucks is a strong word but i would say [TS]

  what's really disappointing is battery [TS]

  life is really disappointing yeah I've [TS]

  heard that from a few people and and I I [TS]

  haven't liked pestered anyone who have [TS]

  seen say this to ask you know is this [TS]

  just day one you know just like you say [TS]

  on a new iOS device or you know I when [TS]

  you upgrade to iOS on an iOS device the [TS]

  first couple days are gonna be rough as [TS]

  it's churning through all the things [TS]

  that needs to turn through so you said [TS]

  you've had this machine for nearly a [TS]

  week or about a week right so this is [TS]

  interesting i've had it you have had it [TS]

  for about a week [TS]

  a little under a week there's a few a [TS]

  few like system processes that will tend [TS]

  to you know load a Mac that's that's [TS]

  fairly new [TS]

  obviously you know the old ones are as [TS]

  old as time itself at least time machine [TS]

  is MDS and various time machine or very [TS]

  spotted indexers that finishes pretty [TS]

  quickly like in the first day and so [TS]

  that's that's pretty much done and i use [TS]

  the wonderful utility istat menus to [TS]

  monitor this kind of stuff so i can [TS]

  always see like in you know in my menu [TS]

  bar i have a little cpu core graph so i [TS]

  can notice it maybe it's very apparent [TS]

  when a computer it when a process is [TS]

  using too much power you see it and then [TS]

  you can you can go see what the process [TS]

  is and you can you know killed if you [TS]

  want to anyway [TS]

  istat menus what kind of animal wouldn't [TS]

  use myspace yeah anyway most most of the [TS]

  host of this show you I step meetings so [TS]

  the of what I've had problems with is [TS]

  the Photos app where you know the in [TS]

  Sierra and I assume it added that the [TS]

  whole like you searched for objects in [TS]

  photos kinda like Google photos does but [TS]

  slightly worse that process its there's [TS]

  no indicator on like what it's doing [TS]

  when it's doing it there's no way to [TS]

  tell it to pause [TS]

  or to finish at a certain time or [TS]

  whatever else like there's no control [TS]

  over when it does that you will just see [TS]

  things like photo library Dean photo [TS]

  analysis d in your activity list and and [TS]

  I i cannot get this laptop to finish the [TS]

  so that there's only one place you can [TS]

  see the progress of it and if you go to [TS]

  photos tab in the app it will show you [TS]

  like you know we scanned 9,000 of 25,000 [TS]

  photos i cannot get that to progress [TS]

  like it says that it'll do it you know [TS]

  if you're when you're plugged into power [TS]

  and you're not using the app so i don't [TS]

  know whether that means whether the app [TS]

  is quit or whether it's just running [TS]

  hidden whether the computer has to be [TS]

  idle or not I've experienced with all [TS]

  the different things and I cannot get it [TS]

  to advance very far but yet I still see [TS]

  photo library or photo analysis d often [TS]

  popping up in the activity list but it [TS]

  tends to not do that on battery died i [TS]

  watch for that like when i was doing [TS]

  battery testing you know taking these [TS]

  long flights i watch for that and I [TS]

  don't think that was the problem so [TS]

  basically I i don't think there was [TS]

  anything in my usage when I was when I [TS]

  was judging the battery it didn't seem [TS]

  to be anything out of the ordinary that [TS]

  was unfairly draining the cpu and [TS]

  keeping a higher powered state that [TS]

  would that would you know otherwise not [TS]

  be there during regular use [TS]

  so if you notice three the reviews for [TS]

  the battery some of them say oh yeah [TS]

  apple spot on 10 hours we we did our [TS]

  like you know like web browsing loop in [TS]

  its 10 hours okay [TS]

  most of the ones that actually try [TS]

  real-world use seem to all agree that [TS]

  it's about five hours and it's and if [TS]

  you if you drive it heavily it can be [TS]

  even shorter than that that matches up [TS]

  with my experience exactly that I am [TS]

  consistently seeing that like if I'm [TS]

  only doing like really casual web [TS]

  browsing nothing else no slack no [TS]

  Twitter no mail like know if I'm only [TS]

  doing browsing and the Wi-Fi connection [TS]

  is great and I'm not browsing any page [TS]

  the turon the discrete GPUs some of them [TS]

  do for some reason maybe its CSS [TS]

  animations I don't know but if if you [TS]

  can give it very very light using a web [TS]

  browser you can get about 10 hours but [TS]

  even if you're doing like dancing [TS]

  between like Twitter slack and web like [TS]

  my typical like light workload [TS]

  even that it was down to about six hours [TS]

  maybe maybe seven if i'm lucky if i'm [TS]

  using Xcode to build an iOS app and and [TS]

  do a good you build new buildings run [TS]

  cycles with the simulator and changing [TS]

  stuff and you know just typical iOS [TS]

  development work in xcode nothing like [TS]

  incredibly heavy not like constantly [TS]

  cleaning rebuilding the whole thing like [TS]

  just typical work in iOS and OS X [TS]

  co-development five hours and and that's [TS]

  that that's been pretty consistent for [TS]

  me so far so that is not great and [TS]

  that's that's with like you know [TS]

  relatively modest brightness settings [TS]

  the good thing is the screen brightness [TS]

  level doesn't appear to have as big of [TS]

  an effect it used to it really does seem [TS]

  like whatever advantage that was made in [TS]

  getting the screen to be very low-power [TS]

  those who paid off the screen really is [TS]

  seemingly pretty low power I don't know [TS]

  the exact numbers on it but uh but it [TS]

  seems like the battery life i'm getting [TS]

  is not that related to the screen [TS]

  brightness the way the way it used to be [TS]

  but the problem is that you have these [TS]

  computers where the the big advances in [TS]

  skylake processors that that let them [TS]

  make the battery smaller almost all came [TS]

  at the bottom and as we've discussed [TS]

  about like when the computer is doing [TS]

  almost nothing when you're being very [TS]

  gentle on it and the processor can be [TS]

  mostly idle most of the time then now it [TS]

  is using less power dented before but as [TS]

  soon as that processors doing anything [TS]

  as soon as you're giving it even a [TS]

  moderate load the high end of the power [TS]

  envelope there is the same as it's [TS]

  always been so estranged give it even a [TS]

  moderate load it's just going back to [TS]

  how much power it used to use in the [TS]

  previous generation of processors but [TS]

  because the idle power dropped so much [TS]

  apple considers that typical use and so [TS]

  they were able to drop the battery side [TS]

  the 25-percent so basically we have [TS]

  computers that have twenty-five percent [TS]

  smaller batteries and processors that [TS]

  did get efficient enough to cook to [TS]

  compensate for that when they're doing [TS]

  very little but as soon as you make them [TS]

  do anything really [TS]

  now we just have a you know twenty-five [TS]

  percent battery life that sucks but that [TS]

  definitely is a pain i have to ask even [TS]

  though I'm already regretting doing so [TS]

  what dot was your dongle [TS]

  I'm sorry adapter situation while you [TS]

  are traveling and what did you buy what [TS]

  you [TS]

  need what did you miss it cetera first [TS]

  of all on the plane [TS]

  this was this might be my first long [TS]

  plane flight with the iphone 7 and what [TS]

  is it suck to not have a headphone jack [TS]

  on the phone and to not be able to [TS]

  charge the phone while using headphones [TS]

  that really does suck like I know it's [TS]

  been a while and we're talking about the [TS]

  headphone jack anymore but why does that [TS]

  suck in practice in my regular [TS]

  day-to-day life i use bluetooth [TS]

  headphones for walking around but my big [TS]

  plan headphones are wired because there [TS]

  are very few big plans phones that are [TS]

  good at our Bluetooth anyway iphone 7 [TS]

  big thumbs down for listening to me [TS]

  complain anyway that aside the the [TS]

  computer itself i-44 doing occasional [TS]

  deployments to the iphone i used to use [TS]

  the Apple official USBC to lightning [TS]

  cable that was fine i brought I brought [TS]

  my other dongles but it doesn't really [TS]

  matter i didn't really need the money i [TS]

  have i have the the one this last [TS]

  weekend i have that i have a couple of [TS]

  USB a to seize or CJ I have a [TS]

  thunderbolt 322 which i only use for [TS]

  this one audio interface and we didn't [TS]

  need to strip it and bring it and I have [TS]

  a card reader we shouldn't use it in [TS]

  your camera but otherwise the dongle [TS]

  situation is fine you know it really [TS]

  does drive me nuts though is the lack of [TS]

  cable management on the power brick that [TS]

  like I brought up last week I said not [TS]

  only a problem and it is a problem it's [TS]

  really annoying to have this big thick [TS]

  cable with no flip out arms no more [TS]

  magsafe like the Apple power adapter the [TS]

  previous one with magsafe and with the [TS]

  cable management building and everything [TS]

  that was really awesome design and we we [TS]

  had that for a very long time and before [TS]

  Maxie for those four hours we had for [TS]

  even longer than that it would this have [TS]

  been around for quite sometime like my [TS]

  very first mac that my 2006 powerbook [TS]

  had no idea doesn't for powerbook excuse [TS]

  me had those lifts arms on the power [TS]

  brick and and there is great a little [TS]

  clip to hold the excess United at the [TS]

  very end of the cable clip that you can [TS]

  clip it on [TS]

  yep yep yep all the finest technology [TS]

  has been around like every vacuum [TS]

  cleaner cable forever [TS]

  anyway we don't have anything anymore [TS]

  now it's just like an iphone cable it's [TS]

  just bigger and it's thicker it's it's a [TS]

  bit like you know I think it's like 85 [TS]

  watt or something cable so it's like it [TS]

  looks like the thickest lightning leave [TS]

  ever seen and it's so it's kind of stiff [TS]

  it's you know it's longer to be laptop [TS]

  cable ish so then so it's it's long you [TS]

  know it's it's not very flexible [TS]

  there's no cable management whatsoever [TS]

  so basically you have to carry a cable [TS]

  tie with you all the time and keep doing [TS]

  and undoing it or do some kind of crazy [TS]

  wrapping scheme which I you know takes [TS]

  more time it's just like it's just a [TS]

  hassle and this and I have some hope [TS]

  here that if Apple can start designing [TS]

  things to be useful again they can fix [TS]

  this just by making a new power adapter [TS]

  or even a new power cable like this is [TS]

  not the kind of thing like that [TS]

  USBC design does not dictate the power [TS]

  cable has to suck it can be any cable [TS]

  they want to communicate after they [TS]

  wanted they can still have magsafe [TS]

  that's just like a little bit away from [TS]

  the end of the computer or possibly the [TS]

  plug in whatever like they can still do [TS]

  all those things they didn't and that [TS]

  kind of annoys me because it really does [TS]

  make the product less community unless [TS]

  nice to use and apple has been always [TS]

  all about things that are nice things [TS]

  they're delightful premium products and [TS]

  the switch to the power cable here is [TS]

  such a big step backwards it goes [TS]

  against all of that so it sounds minor [TS]

  but if you take if you're traveling [TS]

  around moving on the laptop you know you [TS]

  deal with the power cable all the time [TS]

  and the battery life is not yet good [TS]

  enough that you'll need to think about [TS]

  that [TS]

  so you still very much you need to be [TS]

  concerned the power cable if you do [TS]

  anything on your pro computer [TS]

  besides very light web browsing you [TS]

  still need to be plugged in often and so [TS]

  to have the power cable bees be so [TS]

  really crappy is unfortunate and so I [TS]

  really hope Apple fixes this is some [TS]

  point soon just updates the freakin [TS]

  power cable and the power adapter to [TS]

  just give us at that give us one with [TS]

  cable management and mac safe that is [TS]

  very very easy to do they could totally [TS]

  do it [TS]

  third parties can do that that is an [TS]

  advantage here of the USBC ecosystem [TS]

  third parties can do it and Griffin has [TS]

  has a magsafe thing but the max water [TS]

  John is only in the 60s somewhere so [TS]

  that you can use on the 15 inch and [TS]

  relying on third parties is [TS]

  not a great solution to something like [TS]

  this like Apple can make a power cable [TS]

  they can make a really nice one [TS]

  they have for a decade and more than [TS]

  that actually hit for over a decade and [TS]

  I just stopped for some reason and I [TS]

  really i would go back and I hope they [TS]

  do you can use the different charge as [TS]

  fast [TS]

  yeah but honestly I he was not sponsored [TS]

  by Griffin i have not had great luck [TS]

  with Griffin products in the past they [TS]

  they make a lot of stuff that like only [TS]

  they like they feel a lot of gaps in the [TS]

  in the apple product lineup books and [TS]

  that's that's part of the reason why i [TS]

  bought so many things from the past [TS]

  we're like a lot of times they are the [TS]

  only maker of something that solves [TS]

  problem XYZ and that's great i'm glad [TS]

  they do but I've had very mixed luck [TS]

  with their products so I try to avoid [TS]

  even if i can and and so the idea of [TS]

  relying on them for my my power cable [TS]

  and I don't feel great about that it's [TS]

  that it's kind of like little thing like [TS]

  as good as as I complain last week about [TS]

  like the loss of humanity and as John [TS]

  clarified maybe as well as being whimsy [TS]

  and the products the luxury product is [TS]

  kind of a collection of small delights [TS]

  and an apple has gotten rid of a lot of [TS]

  those small delights in laptop line in [TS]

  the last few generations like you used [TS]

  to be able to push a little button on [TS]

  the battery or the side after the [TS]

  battery is not removable and little [TS]

  green lights with light up telling you [TS]

  how much the batteries charged [TS]

  that's really nice you want to open up [TS]

  the laptop it's been a bag for a while [TS]

  you can you can you can just see how how [TS]

  much you charge of opening it up MagSafe [TS]

  connector is of course that's a huge one [TS]

  having a little light on the plug so you [TS]

  can see without opening it up or [TS]

  anything you see is it charging is it [TS]

  fully charged like it just little things [TS]

  that of course you know the the lineup [TS]

  apple on the back to startup chime with [TS]

  a lot of things have been removed / time [TS]

  and some of them with your you're [TS]

  forgetting the one of my favorites that [TS]

  i miss all the time the little pulsating [TS]

  breathing light to let you know that the [TS]

  machine was on exactly i love that god [TS]

  that would be so cool like ancillary [TS]

  they were there was this and a lot of [TS]

  that I think is this has died with with [TS]

  scott forstall but let me he's alive but [TS]

  you basically did you call that living [TS]

  yeah exactly wow yeah but like you know [TS]

  they're like when we when we bought max [TS]

  Casey and I at least John you bought [TS]

  maximus donation case you know I bought [TS]

  max for the first time it was still this [TS]

  era of Liberty like where we we would be [TS]

  able to go into a computer store back in [TS]

  those still existed and another aspect [TS]

  we going to like a like a circuit city [TS]

  all these dead computer stores and and [TS]

  you'll be able to go over the mac area [TS]

  and you'll be able to play with the doc [TS]

  and seal the cheesy like the Zoom [TS]

  animations and the scaling and like the [TS]

  minimizing like you'll be able to see [TS]

  the cheesy crappy like whoa it's so cool [TS]

  and when you actually bought your first [TS]

  mac back then all those cool little [TS]

  things just seemed amazing the pulsing [TS]

  sleep like you know like all the cool [TS]

  little you know lights and battery [TS]

  things everything it was just cool it [TS]

  was it made you feel nice about your [TS]

  luxury product purchase and it made you [TS]

  love this platform and so when things [TS]

  like the niceties of the power cable [TS]

  just get removed for seemingly very [TS]

  little reason it really does kind of [TS]

  erode that nice feeling and a feeling of [TS]

  this being a premium product that you [TS]

  love ya [TS]

  you know I think it's been relatively [TS]

  obvious that i haven't always agreed [TS]

  with you on some of the things that [TS]

  you've been grumbly about over the last [TS]

  I don't know a couple of months about [TS]

  your goggles and this that and the other [TS]

  thing i could not possibly agree with [TS]

  everything you just said more I think [TS]

  and I think you nailed it on the head [TS]

  with and I forget how you phrased it so [TS]

  I apologize but but a luxury product [TS]

  being a series of small delights I think [TS]

  that's absolutely true and I think that [TS]

  that you still into into large degree [TS]

  still is but even more so used to be the [TS]

  case with apple products and obviously i [TS]

  don't have a new macbook pro yet but [TS]

  eventually i will get one for work if [TS]

  not for myself and not having those [TS]

  little flip out [TS]

  hooks or arms whatever you call them on [TS]

  the brick in order to wrap up the cord [TS]

  that's going to drive me batty not [TS]

  having a pulsating light i still miss [TS]

  that to this day I'm not having magsafe [TS]

  that is saved my computer on numerous [TS]

  occasions I mean how many [TS]

  in a great game in aggregate and and by [TS]

  the way about Mac save us bc holds on [TS]

  tight like it's a really it's a really [TS]

  secure connector which generally is good [TS]

  yeah except you could especially now [TS]

  with his life as being lighter you can [TS]

  very easily kick off the table with that [TS]

  later on the ifixit teardown though that [TS]

  they were smart enough to make the board [TS]

  that connects on the inside of the [TS]

  computer a separate replaceable part so [TS]

  when you inevitably knocking over [TS]

  assuming it survives they can just [TS]

  replace the part that plugs into it [TS]

  won't like it won't kill your whole [TS]

  motherboard least at least on one of [TS]

  them [TS]

  sorry logic board and apple parlance [TS]

  least one of the models they did that [TS]

  yeah but that's that's not a great [TS]

  solution but that is that is both [TS]

  incomplete and inferior to magazine but [TS]

  no but anyway I just wanted to say that [TS]

  I completely agree with you and I think [TS]

  this this isn't a this isn't absolutely [TS]

  whimsy or humanity but it's it's [TS]

  tangentially related i think it's in [TS]

  this kind of same universe in that it's [TS]

  these little things in the same way that [TS]

  that in my personal estimation windows [TS]

  is death by a thousand paper cuts apple [TS]

  products doesn't think again for the [TS]

  most part still are but especially just [TS]

  a few years ago tended to be whatever [TS]

  the opposite of that is I don't know [TS]

  what the opposite of death death by a [TS]

  thousand paper cuts is but the opposite [TS]

  of that is what Apple products were in [TS]

  to some degree still our life by a [TS]

  thousand hugs the other yeah but I [TS]

  couldn't agree with you more mark a [TS]

  little stuff like that is just it's [TS]

  frustrating and I do think you know as [TS]

  we've talked about the past like this [TS]

  dongle situation it sounds like for you [TS]

  it wasn't that bad for this particular [TS]

  trip and I do think in the future will [TS]

  get a lot better but there's nothing [TS]

  that there's no obvious answer for not [TS]

  having a little the cable management [TS]

  arms on the power supply i guess you [TS]

  could get a third-party power supply i [TS]

  guess those might exist some point but [TS]

  there's no obvious answer for that [TS]

  there's no way you're going to get the [TS]

  little pulsing sleep light on and on a [TS]

  macbook pro which is not going to happen [TS]

  and all this little stuff it just adds [TS]

  up and his is kind of frustrating [TS]

  overtime and like some of it [TS]

  things like the glowing LED on the [TS]

  abundant like the glowing apple logo on [TS]

  the back [TS]

  apparently that was due to fitness [TS]

  reason the new displays or something [TS]

  like that [TS]

  things like that like to sleep in this [TS]

  LED you could blame that on power or it [TS]

  you know being too bright circles in [TS]

  some people's rooms or whatever like but [TS]

  certain things like the power brick [TS]

  getting worse like there's kind of no [TS]

  reason for that you know and thatthat's [TS]

  kind of drive me nuts like the [TS]

  unnecessary shaving off of all the [TS]

  personality and delight and losing the [TS]

  the extendo cable i forget the term for [TS]

  it yeah I'm talking about that's $19 can [TS]

  throw that income while you're getting [TS]

  at the reasons like it's a like in the [TS]

  car industry they call the decon tenting [TS]

  and when it struck honda's I was very [TS]

  upset that was many many years ago I [TS]

  think we talked about it in neutral at [TS]

  one point but when i bought my first [TS]

  honda civic which was in 1992 the honda [TS]

  civic is the low end model like the [TS]

  lowest of the low end model didn't even [TS]

  have a side mirror on the passenger side [TS]

  like the cheapest model you get and yet [TS]

  when you open the very very tiny trunk [TS]

  on the back of that car there were no [TS]

  struts that intrusion into the trunk [TS]

  area had a series of struts so that when [TS]

  you close that there weren't there [TS]

  wasn't anything poking in you could put [TS]

  a suitcase in there so we're just like [TS]

  fill the entire opening and then close [TS]

  the lid and you won't have to worry [TS]

  about but now when i try to close at the [TS]

  hinge will bang into you know the [TS]

  gooseneck type enjoy bang into the thing [TS]

  those are more expensive to make the [TS]

  little struts they're more complicated [TS]

  they're more prone to break they cost a [TS]

  lot more than taking a bent piece of [TS]

  metal and and bending into a gooseneck [TS]

  shape and welding on and then Wendy [TS]

  content being struck the Japanese car [TS]

  industry I think the garlic because of [TS]

  exchange rates or some other thing or [TS]

  whatever and remember what it was but [TS]

  anyway came to honda and all the sudden [TS]

  Pacific God gooseneck struts and in fact [TS]

  the cord that goes next dress and you [TS]

  know what [TS]

  to this day if you go by unicorn how [TS]

  much money you pay for an accord [TS]

  gooseneck on the trunk they never came [TS]

  back like they never said okay well when [TS]

  things that when things change we will [TS]

  you no will will whatever the reverse of [TS]

  d content thing is they made the parts [TS]

  cheaper and probably like you know [TS]

  simpler to build a more reliable and so [TS]

  they don't have to worry about it but [TS]

  it's worse in terms of packing things [TS]

  into the bacteria carpets now you have [TS]

  to worry about where the hinges land [TS]

  yeah i would say like in general i have [TS]

  i have thought about the the concept of [TS]

  d contacting for for a while with apple [TS]

  products and it really does seem that [TS]

  way with with some of the more recent [TS]

  releases and it's sad because so many of [TS]

  those [TS]

  things are delightful and they may add [TS]

  on they add up to this this perception [TS]

  of this being a premium nice product [TS]

  that makes you happy and everyone of [TS]

  these removals you know just like it's [TS]

  just eroding that feeling and it's these [TS]

  are still nice computers but they they [TS]

  were nicer in many ways in the past and [TS]

  it's you know in general like you know [TS]

  it's it's hard to really complain too [TS]

  much [TS]

  although we always find a way but it's [TS]

  party haha it's hard to complain too [TS]

  much because overall I would say this is [TS]

  a better computer for in in many ways [TS]

  than the one it replaced but like it is [TS]

  not as good as it could be and in areas [TS]

  that there's no excuse for that you know [TS]

  certain areas you can see all right well [TS]

  it maxes out at third at 16 gigs ram for [TS]

  these reasons with low power ram intel [TS]

  imitations etc you know you can say like [TS]

  oh well it couldn't have a better [TS]

  keyboard because then it would have to [TS]

  be thicker by the way as for the way [TS]

  this computer feels with it being so [TS]

  much thinner and lighter feeling small [TS]

  improvement not a substantial [TS]

  improvement like i'll take it you know [TS]

  i'll take it being lighter i guess i [TS]

  mean i would prefer great battery life [TS]

  but you know if if this is what what is [TS]

  available now [TS]

  ok you know i'll accept the the weight [TS]

  reduction but going from the retina [TS]

  macbook pro the 2012 design 2 2016 [TS]

  design does not feel that different it [TS]

  were severely diminishing returns here [TS]

  it really does not feel like a massive [TS]

  weight savings and weight or size or [TS]

  thickness at no point you know haven't [TS]

  used the 2012 15 inch design since 2012 [TS]

  at no point during these four years did [TS]

  I ever think you know this is too thick [TS]

  you know like everybody could use a [TS]

  laptop being lighter because when you [TS]

  carry it [TS]

  it's nice ones lighter everyone can use [TS]

  a smaller footprint for the same screen [TS]

  size to have less overhead because all [TS]

  that makes it easier to use on planes [TS]

  and tight areas and stuff that's great [TS]

  but the thickness of these laptops [TS]

  especially in the 15 inch line is so [TS]

  irrelevant and and they're already they [TS]

  were already so thin 2012 to make them [TS]

  lighter is very welcome but they really [TS]

  didn't need to get thinner and they [TS]

  really didn't get thinner enough in ways [TS]

  that are actually noticeable in real [TS]

  world use so to do things like make a [TS]

  really controversial weird new keyboard [TS]

  in the name of only fitness and not like [TS]

  this because keyboards are mostly empty [TS]

  space to be able to to force yourself [TS]

  into that kind of design trade-off seems [TS]

  unnecessary when it was already so thin [TS]

  to begin with you know so lightness [TS]

  great it is noticeably lighter it's not [TS]

  it's not massive later it isn't like [TS]

  like when you first like the first time [TS]

  you picked a macbook air and you were [TS]

  used to everything that wasn't a macbook [TS]

  air before that yeah that was an amazing [TS]

  difference because that was that was [TS]

  like I think it was something like going [TS]

  from like 4.5 to 5.5 pounds 23 point out [TS]

  it was a huge difference and also the [TS]

  taper was totally totally made a [TS]

  difference [TS]

  sure but like you know going from 4.5 [TS]

  24.8 pounds is a much smaller difference [TS]

  you forgot about the the biggest [TS]

  difference though with this model that I [TS]

  can't believe you didn't notice [TS]

  well maybe you don't notice because you [TS]

  didn't get it we didn't and we never [TS]

  asked you what color I did get space [TS]

  grey knights and isn't that a big [TS]

  difference that to me that was the [TS]

  biggest difference other than the touch [TS]

  bar i guess maybe actually tied for the [TS]

  touch part what's the biggest difference [TS]

  in this model this one comes in grey and [TS]

  it's a little bit of a weird grey it [TS]

  totally looks different than the old one [TS]

  what do you like it and yeah and [TS]

  honestly I I was not a huge fan of [TS]

  spacecraft the macbook one it just [TS]

  didn't seem quite right to me when I [TS]

  seen it it doesn't look bad but i just [TS]

  think like spacecraft map want it just [TS]

  seems like you know that's not really [TS]

  the best color I i would say the epic [TS]

  one is best in probably gold and pink [TS]

  and I don't love those colors myself but [TS]

  I just it just looks kind of odd in [TS]

  space gray on the 15-inch I'd say space [TS]

  gray looks awesome [TS]

  I don't know why i think it's i think [TS]

  the same but it for whatever reason [TS]

  looks really good to me i'm very happy [TS]

  with it so you know cool [TS]

  I'm that's that's good news I I do like [TS]

  it I do worry a little bit i know our [TS]

  friend Stephen Hackett [TS]

  by the way did you see his amazing video [TS]

  with the Apple book and the real [TS]

  products oh my god will put it but that [TS]

  the show notes I it's so good i was [TS]

  upset about the part where he shows [TS]

  three-hundred-dollar book that all right [TS]

  fine I I see what you're going for but [TS]

  really come on through and all but not [TS]

  just to check it against the wall [TS]

  you would anyway you so yeah that's the [TS]

  video is amazing [TS]

  anyway space gray is good but if it gets [TS]

  scratched or dented at all it shows the [TS]

  the silver color through as as he [TS]

  learned on his landscape oh now really [TS]

  yeah so that I I don't know how deep [TS]

  scratches necessary to make that happen [TS]

  but it happened to Stephen already with [TS]

  his macbook escape so that's so that's [TS]

  that could be better i was gonna change [TS]

  my work order to be great now that i [TS]

  heard that no I can't have that [TS]

  oh my god John yeah so anyway though it [TS]

  overall I would say it's it's a good [TS]

  computer as for the touch bar didn't [TS]

  even talk about it [TS]

  the the touch bar i guess i'm going to [TS]

  have more in the future to have more [TS]

  experience with it and so far it seems [TS]

  fine it seems kind of like a sideways [TS]

  step that they're you know again there's [TS]

  some plus is there some minuses we'll [TS]

  see over time how it develops the Escape [TS]

  key is really annoying to be up there so [TS]

  i started developing a habit of i [TS]

  switched I remapped escape two caps lock [TS]

  I just been hitting anything that I'm [TS]

  both my imac and my laptop so I just [TS]

  been training myself to hit caps lock [TS]

  instead of escape and the best way to [TS]

  deal with the escapees to stop using it [TS]

  because the the new escape zone is fine [TS]

  but not great that the main problem is [TS]

  it wouldn't when you're talking about a [TS]

  key not an area on touchscreen but a key [TS]

  you know exactly when you've hit you can [TS]

  rest your hand on it before you ready to [TS]

  hit it and then you can push down and [TS]

  you know you hit and you can't do that [TS]

  are on on the escape zone you you can't [TS]

  rest your finger on it beforehand and [TS]

  use trigger it I do that a lot the first [TS]

  couple the first day or two I had hit [TS]

  and and you can't you can't know when [TS]

  you've hit or not how many times you hit [TS]

  very reliably as so it i don't love that [TS]

  so my solution there was to simply remap [TS]

  to it to caps lock which is easily done [TS]

  with system preferences the trackpad is [TS]

  being that huge I do love having the big [TS]

  track pad area and when I went back to [TS]

  test to use my old macbook pro one of [TS]

  the things that made it feel impossibly [TS]

  old was having this tiny little track [TS]

  pad which of course is like when it came [TS]

  out it was huge like having this old [TS]

  this tiny track that now i still hate [TS]

  the force touch trackpad [TS]

  i hate the way it clicks I hate how [TS]

  weirdly the pressure is not quite right [TS]

  I hate how it's not a hundred percent [TS]

  reliable so instead I've been slow [TS]

  transitioning to a tap to click wizard [TS]

  if you're gonna have my my taps be only [TS]

  mostly reliable and not a hundred [TS]

  percent reliable I'd rather do it that [TS]

  way instead of having to feel stupid [TS]

  weird click and push harder to get it [TS]

  so basically my my solution to the [TS]

  downsides of the touch part of that text [TS]

  bar the force extract that are to avoid [TS]

  using them and and my end the upsides of [TS]

  the of the trackpad being so big are [TS]

  very welcome and the upside of the touch [TS]

  bar being this new function old surface [TS]

  of weird things is basically a big we [TS]

  will see about that later from me so far [TS]

  but so far it seems it could it might be [TS]

  really cool one more closing thought [TS]

  about this i think looking at the specs [TS]

  and the pricing to me there's two [TS]

  laptops worth getting in this lineup the [TS]

  macbook escape and the 15-inch I the [TS]

  13-inch with with touch bar is so [TS]

  expensive for what you get it also has I [TS]

  think the worst battery life of the 3i [TS]

  think if you have the need for a lower [TS]

  end or smaller or lower performing [TS]

  computer get an appt xscape it's so much [TS]

  cheaper and it has better battery life [TS]

  everything else if you want like a [TS]

  strong workhorse computer that has a [TS]

  little more power and order has the [TS]

  touch bar get 15x because it is so much [TS]

  better suspect per dollar than 13 so to [TS]

  me those the two worth getting I I don't [TS]

  love the 13-inch like I tried in the [TS]

  store and you know i've ran a bunch of [TS]

  numbers online of course I don't love [TS]

  the 13th touch bar i don't i don't think [TS]

  that product makes a ton of sense for [TS]

  maximizing your value we brought you [TS]

  this week by automatic the small adapter [TS]

  turns your clunker car into a smarter [TS]

  connected car automatically just [TS]

  launched the automatic pro the new [TS]

  unlimited 3g card after with no monthly [TS]

  fees and no subscriptions always on 3g [TS]

  let you know what your cars is parked at [TS]

  any time and she track your vehicle in [TS]

  case of a theft and of course this [TS]

  always on 3g with again no monthly fee [TS]

  no subscription price is just always on [TS]

  3g kinda like like when old Kindles to [TS]

  have 3g it was just built into the price [TS]

  and they just have like some deal you [TS]

  don't paper [TS]

  anyway you can also work with if this [TS]

  then that ifttt for endless [TS]

  customization to connect your car the [TS]

  rest of your online life you can link it [TS]

  to connected devices like a nest [TS]

  thermostat or Amazon echo imagine you [TS]

  can actually ask the echo hey name of [TS]

  echo where did I park my car and you can [TS]

  actually tell you [TS]

  and of course by having a 3g connection [TS]

  it can do even better things even safer [TS]

  things it can get human help in a crash [TS]

  automatic pro can detect severe accident [TS]

  automatically and if you are unable to [TS]

  call they can call train responders for [TS]

  you [TS]

  it's amazing so automatic is normally a [TS]

  hundred and thirty bucks but when you [TS]

  use our exclusive offer code ATP you [TS]

  will save twenty dollars off that price [TS]

  so go to automatic calm / ATP for more [TS]

  information and use offer code ATP to [TS]

  save twenty bucks off the regular [TS]

  purchase price and again there's no fees [TS]

  per month no subscriptions and with that [TS]

  it comes to 3g and a half of school [TS]

  services but you only pay once up front [TS]

  for the device once again the tarmac [TS]

  calm / ATP for more information and he's [TS]

  offer code ATP for twenty dollars off [TS]

  the regular purchase price thanks to [TS]

  automatically sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah John do you have a new phone i do [TS]

  we're going to know iphone 7 it was the [TS]

  one that i said i was going to get which [TS]

  was jet black and I wanted to try using [TS]

  it without a case and I did I just [TS]

  didn't try it for very long [TS]

  define not very long at less than 24 [TS]

  hours the little birdie told me it was [TS]

  less than six but i'll let you decide [TS]

  yeah i mean like i wanna i wanted to try [TS]

  it I it is grippy and I've never had a [TS]

  ir s device without a case small [TS]

  isolated case so i thought i was going [TS]

  to just give it a go and and i was going [TS]

  to take the scratches and whatever and [TS]

  there's two reasons i had to stop the [TS]

  the first but I kind of knew about from [TS]

  using the store is like when i play with [TS]

  the story notice that i could feel the [TS]

  seams on the sim tray and then like that [TS]

  you know on the outside of it and doing [TS]

  it more in real life I could also feel [TS]

  the seams around the apple logo on the [TS]

  back [TS]

  Jack I didn't like that either like it's [TS]

  not wasn't you know it's one of those [TS]

  things where you my fingers feel [TS]

  compelled to like seek out that seam or [TS]

  whatever it just was bothering me that [TS]

  alone would have done at the real [TS]

  problem I eventually realized was even [TS]

  though i said i'm just gonna let it get [TS]

  scratched like it's not going to accept [TS]

  the grittiness and i'll have a smaller [TS]

  shape and like I just accept that it's [TS]

  going to get scratched [TS]

  I found myself when I was placing it [TS]

  down like placing it down gently like I [TS]

  was trying to stop myself from placing [TS]

  it down gently but I realized number to [TS]

  help like it was a battle within myself [TS]

  to treat it as cavalierly as I treated [TS]

  my thing with the case I'm and then the [TS]

  final little bit of the bringing of [TS]

  these three things combined I really [TS]

  think putting it down gently wasn't just [TS]

  cannot get over the final bit was [TS]

  doesn't lie flat because got a bump on [TS]

  the back of it when you have a case you [TS]

  don't have that problem and I find that [TS]

  I very often have my phone laying down [TS]

  and I very often [TS]

  press the button and do other things [TS]

  with it and I don't like the fact that [TS]

  it's on an angle and could potentially [TS]

  wobble and stuff like that so I got a [TS]

  leather case for it it's in the other [TS]

  case it's much happier now i think i got [TS]

  into the leather case before any major [TS]

  scratching seven but who knows I'm just [TS]

  happy to have other case on it and the [TS]

  other case is way better [TS]

  the button to poke out through the case [TS]

  are better than they were a couple other [TS]

  case is slip feel slippery for me on the [TS]

  phone by itself so it's not like i'm [TS]

  putting in the case to be grippier but [TS]

  as soon as I got the case on it like [TS]

  just really a weight lifted off my [TS]

  shoulders and I can just go back there [TS]

  just having my regular phone and the [TS]

  only other thing to speak of about this [TS]

  out two more things one the home button [TS]

  it doesn't move [TS]

  I was on board pretty quickly with that [TS]

  it is different but I kind of a kind of [TS]

  like a little little kick as opposed to [TS]

  the button press like I'm I'm pretty [TS]

  much on par with that i even don't mind [TS]

  it when it's laying flat on a table like [TS]

  oh it feels so wrong it does feel weird [TS]

  and different but i'm pretty much i'm [TS]

  bored with it like doesn't bother me [TS]

  that much i did eventually go down to [TS]

  setting of 1 on that button because I [TS]

  can feel it i don't need to be in my [TS]

  face that much i think one is fine i'm [TS]

  definitely a one-person for the [TS]

  the home button and then the final thing [TS]

  the headphone port which marker talked [TS]

  about like coming back to reassert its [TS]

  absence when he was on the plane I [TS]

  haven't had that experience yet [TS]

  well maybe i will but for now the one [TS]

  thing that I didn't know were you [TS]

  prepared me for or that you know I [TS]

  didn't think about beforehand and one of [TS]

  the things i didn't know is that all two [TS]

  things 1i knew this but didn't realize [TS]

  how how I feel about it [TS]

  the Lightning plug is bigger than the [TS]

  headphone jack maybe not in volume if [TS]

  you do the math on it because the [TS]

  headphone jack is longer but it's just [TS]

  bigger around the headphone port is [TS]

  inner circumference wise it is is closer [TS]

  to the diameter of the of the wire than [TS]

  the thing right and it and it goes in [TS]

  and out a little bit easier especially [TS]

  on this this new thing so [TS]

  on this this new thing so [TS]

  this feels like plugging in a bigger [TS]

  plug then plugging in the headphone and [TS]

  the second thing is the headphone just a [TS]

  little thing that comes with their pots [TS]

  which is what i use I use the earpods [TS]

  and on all their peripherals that have [TS]

  this little you know daks ship in them [TS]

  the Lightning port on those including [TS]

  the adapter by including the headphone [TS]

  jack about their the Lightning port in [TS]

  that is fatter the little plastic white [TS]

  plastic part but the Lightning metal [TS]

  thing pokes out of is fatter than the [TS]

  plain old lightning cable one batter [TS]

  enough that you'll notice that are [TS]

  nothing if you hold them up of you you [TS]

  know it's not just slightly better its [TS]

  it is fatter so i feel like i'm plugging [TS]

  a big fat clunky thing into my phone [TS]

  when i connect my headphones and that is [TS]

  weird to me because this is supposed to [TS]

  be the modern new getting rid of the old [TS]

  clunky you know TTR whatever the hell [TS]

  that thing is called like the headphone [TS]

  jack [TS]

  that's supposed to feel the ID the [TS]

  archaic thing we should be going to the [TS]

  sleek new and I feel like I went the [TS]

  opposite direction i feel like i just [TS]

  gave up [TS]

  USBC for scuzzy that's what it feels [TS]

  like haha but it is not a good feeling [TS]

  I mean I'll get over it like whatever [TS]

  it's fine but I didn't expect that at [TS]

  all and i had to actually say is it just [TS]

  me but now you just hold it up just [TS]

  grabbing a lightning cable and hold it [TS]

  up to your your uh you know headphones [TS]

  for your iphone 7 or took for the [TS]

  headphone adapter it's bigger it's [TS]

  bigger around i really hope they can [TS]

  shrink that I think that would make a [TS]

  big difference so I'll get over it i [TS]

  really like my new phone is superfast [TS]

  the screen is really awesome looking I I [TS]

  kinda like the new home button now I [TS]

  have forced touch [TS]

  I overall i really like the new phone [TS]

  especially now that have a case on it [TS]

  but the news is not the absence of the [TS]

  headphone port that bothers me so much [TS]

  is the presence of the big fat lighting [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah you know I noticed the big fat [TS]

  lightning thing but I couldn't put my [TS]

  finger on until you said something what [TS]

  it was about it that kind of bothered me [TS]

  and i think it's it's exactly like you [TS]

  said it's that it feels bigger and [TS]

  clunkier than just a headphone jack it [TS]

  which is definitely peculiar yeah and i [TS]

  gotta say i have also come around to the [TS]

  force touch home button [TS]

  although I am a three-person I I don't [TS]

  know how you could do anything less than [TS]

  three but I you know the first day I [TS]

  hated it [TS]

  but after after that first day like now [TS]

  it feels normal it I the the illusion [TS]

  has totally worked on me i like it way [TS]

  way better than any force touch trackpad [TS]

  have ever used it is substantially [TS]

  better so yeah it's good i'm with you on [TS]

  that the the jet black though I i'm [TS]

  curious I i must know in your six hours [TS]

  of having a caseless did you get any [TS]

  scratches on it was saying like I think [TS]

  it's mostly scratch-free i didn't i [TS]

  didn't go like hunting i'm sure there [TS]

  are some because I again I was trying to [TS]

  like the article just don't put it down [TS]

  gently like you know you the whole thing [TS]

  you're on board with getting this graph [TS]

  right stop putting it down gently so i [TS]

  was trying to force myself to just be [TS]

  like stop thinking imagine street like [TS]

  your old phone so I'm sure I like half [TS]

  intentionally put it down with more [TS]

  force than i would normally and so I'm [TS]

  sure there are little scratches on the [TS]

  corners here and there but I didn't go [TS]

  hunting for them i just want to put into [TS]

  leather case it still looks pretty good [TS]

  like when I polish it up before i put in [TS]

  the leather case it's still basically [TS]

  looks new but I'm sure if I got out [TS]

  there and you know look at the edges [TS]

  exactly you see these little hairline [TS]

  things whatever it's fine it'll be fine [TS]

  for the museum / although now now that i [TS]

  am my phone sex to get out of its case [TS]

  which its case that is destroyed again [TS]

  and it looks so nice and new in there [TS]

  and like boy this is a nice pristine [TS]

  phone and then I realized wait I'm hangs [TS]

  down to my son our problem with phones [TS]

  maybe this maybe I won't have him down [TS]

  my seven maybe I'll preserve that one [TS]

  and help not to get his own son of some [TS]

  kind but yeah i'm hanging lights six [TS]

  down to my son and so that's kind of a [TS]

  bummer for the you know i did buy an [TS]

  otterbox case for it and hopefully that [TS]

  will that will help it survive and he [TS]

  hasn't destroyed the 5s that is using [TS]

  now which is also an otterbox case so I [TS]

  have some hope that the six will make it [TS]

  out alive but we'll see [TS]

  it's amazing for the record I am also a [TS]

  one-person just like John on the home [TS]

  button i started i think i started it [TS]

  too if memory serves and then and then [TS]

  eventually move my way down to one it [TS]

  works at least for me anyway we got a [TS]

  tweet from chris malhar [TS]

  who did a short video comparing [TS]

  different color gamuts and this is a [TS]

  just a couple minutes long and it is [TS]

  definitely worth watching and it helped [TS]

  me understand a little better what the [TS]

  differences are so we'll put a link to [TS]

  this in the show notes it's pretty good [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  it gives you a 3d representation of the [TS]

  color space and so you can just compare [TS]

  the size like 3d shapes like here's how [TS]

  big this color gamut is an Outlook the [TS]

  shape is bigger and it's bigger than [TS]

  these dimensions and so it sits nice [TS]

  division and that and the app that is [TS]

  using to do that I think that's like a [TS]

  built-in os10 app isn't it yeah [TS]

  mhm that's what you can you can watch [TS]

  the video and then if you have a Mac you [TS]

  can open the same and do the same thing [TS]

  he's doing and you know explore at your [TS]

  leisure [TS]

  yep exactly right Johnny I've speaking [TS]

  of beat-up iphones are commented on [TS]

  beat-up iphones in the or I guess you [TS]

  didn't comment in the book because the [TS]

  book is no words but somehow commented [TS]

  in the in the rain in context of the [TS]

  book and the layout it's in the show [TS]

  notes there you go [TS]

  sorry i didn't read far enough CSO [TS]

  Johnny said that's Evans hankies phone [TS]

  who manages the design studio isn't cool [TS]

  she destroys her objects but i thought [TS]

  there was something so charming about [TS]

  that i thought it was lovely to put that [TS]

  in we design tools to be used and she [TS]

  definitely uses them to put that quote [TS]

  in there because it sounds so much like [TS]

  he does not like that funding but not [TS]

  always that silly seek controls [TS]

  everything that's a netbook like what [TS]

  happened why would you ever put anything [TS]

  in there then he didn't want but i read [TS]

  that and you know you said this in the [TS]

  past talking about apple products like [TS]

  apple with very very few exceptions does [TS]

  not show its products used like Warren [TS]

  scratch dented almost all their product [TS]

  shots show them in the pristine idealize [TS]

  very often 3d rendered or at the very [TS]

  least you know photoshopped like that's [TS]

  that's how the process and we know in [TS]

  the real world like it [TS]

  Apple has been doing design-wise has [TS]

  been trying to design products that stay [TS]

  as close as possible to that pristine [TS]

  look which is an amazing feat and you [TS]

  know sometimes they get closer at times [TS]

  like that sounds like the darth vader [TS]

  Apple watch with the TLC coding is very [TS]

  close to that whereas the you know the [TS]

  ipod nano with a scratchy thing was very [TS]

  far from that [TS]

  and all products in between and we'll [TS]

  see how the space grey 15-inch macbook [TS]

  pro turns out but that has been the [TS]

  trend for many many years now and this [TS]

  this whole let's see what it looks like [TS]

  when it's being used flies in the face [TS]

  of that and is not common and the fact [TS]

  that they put that in there and far as [TS]

  I'm aware that's the only beat up thing [TS]

  like they didn't show here's what here's [TS]

  what a tangerine imac looks like ever [TS]

  been used by a bunch of kindergarten [TS]

  students for five years like they didn't [TS]

  show that because that is the thing and [TS]

  there is a look to that and it's not a [TS]

  great look but they did show the [TS]

  original iphone and so this little [TS]

  passage almost sounds like he is trying [TS]

  to convince himself that it's such a [TS]

  great thing I'm sure lots of other [TS]

  people tried to go into some it was [TS]

  awesome i'm sure he appreciates it but I [TS]

  still feel like hit if he was a magical [TS]

  wizard magic industrial design wizard [TS]

  and he said we said you can create [TS]

  products that look like your product [TS]

  shots and then no matter what users do [TS]

  to them they stay looking that way he [TS]

  would say yes do that because that's [TS]

  exactly what I want [TS]

  like if you can make everything out of [TS]

  adamantium vibranium forever you're a [TS]

  Marvel Universe magic metal or [TS]

  unobtainium if you want to go with the [TS]

  very stupid avatar and they never [TS]

  actually trying not he would take that [TS]

  because that's what he wants like it as [TS]

  expressed by every product that he's [TS]

  ever made and every ad that they've ever [TS]

  been in with the exception of like that [TS]

  one add that shows a macbook with a [TS]

  bunch of stickers on it and stuff and [TS]

  maybe one or two other exceptions and [TS]

  this one thing it's so weird to me so [TS]

  hearing that quote just like like who [TS]

  who is it that convince you to put that [TS]

  in the book obviously you agreed to it [TS]

  eventually but that your heart doesn't [TS]

  minute [TS]

  fair enough all right tell me about the [TS]

  penny arcade and the microsoft surface [TS]

  to do this link was in the show notes [TS]

  for the last episode we never got a [TS]

  chance to talk about it [TS]

  yeah this is just one example of you [TS]

  know we're talking about who would want [TS]

  this computer it's obviously not just [TS]

  for everybody because most people aren't [TS]

  doing like digital art on a computer but [TS]

  if your digital artist maybe it's for [TS]

  you and we talk about digital artist may [TS]

  be set in their ways but for other [TS]

  people who are more flexible or have [TS]

  been looking for you know a new approach [TS]

  this is great and so Mike from penny [TS]

  arcade has been you know drawing comics [TS]

  for many years now digitally and he's [TS]

  use the tablet and then he switched from [TS]

  tablet to a tablet that's basically a [TS]

  screen the cintiq where instead of just [TS]

  looking at the screen and drawing where [TS]

  you're not looking now you're looking [TS]

  down at where you're drawing visitors an [TS]

  image there and he wrote this blog post [TS]

  about he's also been connected with [TS]

  Microsoft like they've been giving a [TS]

  preview hardware for a while with the [TS]

  old surface books and the this the you [TS]

  know he's he's embedded with Microsoft [TS]

  on this but he is pretty honest about [TS]

  what you like somebody doesn't like and [TS]

  a couple quotes from his post about that [TS]

  will put a link to the show notes his [TS]

  his business partner Jerry a system to [TS]

  compare this antique says and I told him [TS]

  the drawing on the cintiq now felt like [TS]

  drawing on a piece of dirty plexiglass [TS]

  hovering over CRT monitor from 1997 so [TS]

  that's pretty you know the cintiq is [TS]

  supposed to like the gold standard of [TS]

  you know release at least the sort of [TS]

  mainstream i want to draw on the screen [TS]

  but I can't draw on my computer screen [TS]

  because my computer screen is just a [TS]

  monitor then I'll get a cintiq which by [TS]

  the way are very expensive and i'm [TS]

  assuming what a dragon 2 is basically [TS]

  the retina resolution of the service [TS]

  studio and to him that's more important [TS]

  than perhaps what a cintiq fan might say [TS]

  yeah but this indeed is more responsive [TS]

  or whatever it did the cintiq now feels [TS]

  like a CRT which has been on this little [TS]

  passage where he tries to wrap things up [TS]

  is when i first saw the device months [TS]

  ago in that secret room microsoft here [TS]

  to get a preview of this by the way they [TS]

  asked me what I thought I said well I [TS]

  have no idea i also wanted but you have [TS]

  made my dream computer i recognize that [TS]

  not everybody wants or needs a computer [TS]

  they can draw on some people do though [TS]

  and i will tell you that the service [TS]

  studios without a doubt the best digital [TS]

  drawing experience I've ever tried i [TS]

  spent 16 hours a day drawing digitally [TS]

  and i have for more than a decade the [TS]

  cintiq in the surface these are like the [TS]

  to my tools are my instruments I'm [TS]

  intimately familiar and how it feels to [TS]

  create things on these sorts of devices [TS]

  and the studio honestly feels like a [TS]

  generational leap forward [TS]

  that sounds like ad copy from Microsoft [TS]

  right but i can tell you that my company [TS]

  arcade is not want to sugarcoat things [TS]

  whatever you know so he really likes [TS]

  this he's an example of who might like [TS]

  this weird thing this is the type of [TS]

  person that would like the people who [TS]

  like it it feels like I've been waiting [TS]

  all my life for this computer i think [TS]

  again I still think he's a minority [TS]

  Pacific most people have been drawing [TS]

  digitally for as long as he have [TS]

  a kind of set in their ways and are [TS]

  happy with the situation they have many [TS]

  just wish they could have an incremental [TS]

  a better cintiq but if you've been [TS]

  dreaming of this this fulfills your [TS]

  dreams and you know I really feel his [TS]

  enthusiasm for this device and that's [TS]

  that one what's making you think that [TS]

  given enough turnover in the the staff [TS]

  of professional artist eventually some [TS]

  companies going to win out by letting [TS]

  these people drawn a big giant beautiful [TS]

  screen with its Microsoft or not so [TS]

  there was some talk on our show at last [TS]

  week about our macs and there's a great [TS]

  article by Jason smell on our max but [TS]

  the thing we were going to talk about [TS]

  really quickly as that apparently [TS]

  microsoft listens to ATP because they've [TS]

  announced that they're going to enable [TS]

  x86 simulation on top of armed 64 that's [TS]

  part of their whole on-again off-again [TS]

  dalliance with trying to sell windows on [TS]

  arm and the army you know surface [TS]

  computers and everything that haven't [TS]

  been selling as well as the Intel [TS]

  versions and Microsoft's analysis seems [TS]

  to be it's because people have a lot of [TS]

  x86 software and you by the arm when you [TS]

  can't run the x86 software it's hard for [TS]

  us to get everyone to recompile the same [TS]

  old problem that you always having to [TS]

  change architectures only microsoft [TS]

  wasn't changing architectures they want [TS]

  to have their cake and eat it too and [TS]

  say everybody could you like make your [TS]

  apps build them for make your you know [TS]

  surface apps also forearm and exit no [TS]

  you're not no in and that ok well maybe [TS]

  if you think about it you know you have [TS]

  to do what Apple does what you say you [TS]

  have to stop making 68k applications [TS]

  eventually just make you know that [TS]

  binaries but eventually we're just going [TS]

  to sell powerpc convince we don't sell [TS]

  68k Max anymore so if you keep building [TS]

  vs AK you can have to keep doing that [TS]

  for any number of years to support your [TS]

  customers but you know that the futures [TS]

  powerpc only right Michael didn't do [TS]

  that and I don't see them doing that [TS]

  with arms so it's been difficult to get [TS]

  them on board so they're stopgap just [TS]

  like Apple during transitions as well [TS]

  let's try to emulate it and we've talked [TS]

  about that many times in the past that [TS]

  arm CPUs are not so much faster than x86 [TS]

  or faster at all perhaps that you get [TS]

  emulation you know not for free but like [TS]

  that you can emulate it and acceptable [TS]

  speed but Microsoft a company filled [TS]

  with a lot of smart people and if [TS]

  anybody can work out [TS]

  x86 and arm emulator that has acceptable [TS]

  performance maybe it's them [TS]

  now how does factor into apple I don't [TS]

  is Microsoft going to open sources does [TS]

  the work that Microsoft does making [TS]

  their emulator work help Apple all maybe [TS]

  not but maybe they can prove that it can [TS]

  be done [TS]

  maybe they can give a data point to say [TS]

  if you were to emulate x86 and arm [TS]

  how would it work would be okay or would [TS]

  it be dog slow or you know it's nice to [TS]

  see somebody go first and so we will [TS]

  have something more than speculation [TS]

  eventually to see how feasible it is to [TS]

  do this simulation because it's [TS]

  important for compatibility for all [TS]

  microsoft x86 apps and if Apple ever [TS]

  want to transition surely as it has done [TS]

  in the other two transitions it will [TS]

  need an emulation so it's something to [TS]

  watch responsive tonight by warby parker [TS]

  head over to worry Parker calm / ATP to [TS]

  order your free home trial pair of [TS]

  glasses today glasses should not cost as [TS]

  much as a phone or Parker's prescription [TS]

  eyeglasses are just $95 including [TS]

  prescription lenses and worry Parker [TS]

  makes buying glasses online easy and [TS]

  risk-free and this sounds crazy but they [TS]

  have this great tools including their [TS]

  wonderful home try-on program [TS]

  this allows you to order five pairs of [TS]

  glasses that gets shipped directly to [TS]

  your door you can try them on in the [TS]

  comfort of your own home and get [TS]

  feedback from friends colleagues family [TS]

  whoever and then you can try the frames [TS]

  on for these five days and you send them [TS]

  back in a free prepaid box for free pay [TS]

  return label everything else no [TS]

  obligation to purchase so you spent [TS]

  nothing up to that point you have no [TS]

  obligation to purchase it's a hundred [TS]

  percent free it is so easy anybody can [TS]

  do it and if you want to order some [TS]

  after that of course to make it very [TS]

  easy but you don't have to work Parker [TS]

  believes that glasses should be [TS]

  affordable enough you can treat it like [TS]

  a fashion accessory just like bags shoes [TS]

  neckties hats you can have multiple [TS]

  pairs if you want to and of course very [TS]

  very affordably for every pair of [TS]

  glasses sold word Parker also distribute [TS]

  a pair of glasses to somebody in need [TS]

  through worldwide vision charities they [TS]

  also have sunglasses starting just $95 [TS]

  including polarized lenses and also have [TS]

  those available with prescription [TS]

  starting just a hundred and seventy-five [TS]

  just like eyeglasses or sunglasses are [TS]

  available through their home try-on [TS]

  program or Parker sunglasses feature [TS]

  premium polarized lenses that are [TS]

  scratches to [TS]

  provide a hundred percent UV protection [TS]

  so go to work Parker calm / ATP today [TS]

  we've had worker products in our house [TS]

  my wife wears glasses she has some other [TS]

  classes i have some of those sunglasses [TS]

  they are fantastic we highly recommend [TS]

  them if you can check it out if they [TS]

  make it so easy so so accessible so [TS]

  affordable the home training program is [TS]

  really amazing again you get five pairs [TS]

  of glasses ship to you for free no [TS]

  obligation to buy you try mon keep for [TS]

  up to five days send it back also for [TS]

  free and then decide whether purchase [TS]

  then after that it's really great their [TS]

  stuff is top-notch highly recommended [TS]

  check it out go to warby parker calm / [TS]

  ATP to begin your free home trial [TS]

  experience today thanks a lot Tory [TS]

  Parker sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah so speaking of people who listen to [TS]

  the show [TS]

  apparently we have reminded that what [TS]

  they make that they make Wi-Fi routers [TS]

  are they did anyway because now they [TS]

  don't I was Marco did that right wasn't [TS]

  marcos that they should just continue [TS]

  the routers and such [TS]

  I you know I wasn't I wasn't an [TS]

  organization is anything but like it was [TS]

  we were talking like it was literally [TS]

  like last weekend before that [TS]

  saying how like you know they take the [TS]

  monitor business and you know what the [TS]

  argument was that well if they don't [TS]

  need to focus on monitors and I said [TS]

  like look they still make Wi-Fi routers [TS]

  and some of hard drives and then like [TS]

  obviously they don't need you know [TS]

  they're in businesses that are that are [TS]

  less glorious but they stay in them as [TS]

  in these supporting roles for their [TS]

  product line UND the airport routers [TS]

  really support the mac and and the [TS]

  various I devices in this supporting [TS]

  role the time capsule ones in particular [TS]

  are very useful appliances to get people [TS]

  who otherwise probably wouldn't back up [TS]

  to it to a drive to time machine driver [TS]

  to have any backup whatsoever who don't [TS]

  who don't listen to our back play [TS]

  sponsorships or we can use it for [TS]

  whatever reason but have really crappy [TS]

  internet connection so like that those [TS]

  are now major roles that are going now [TS]

  unserved that being said Apple routers [TS]

  were never as far as I could tell they [TS]

  were never that popular because you know [TS]

  the the idea of every other router being [TS]

  not only good enough but like 10 times [TS]

  cheaper that has been the case for a [TS]

  long time now like cheaper and better [TS]

  usually like better in terms of [TS]

  Wi-Fi signal like a dynamic apple has [TS]

  ever had [TS]

  maybe the very first one but I don't [TS]

  think Apple has ever had a Wi-Fi router [TS]

  whose Wi-Fi performance in terms of [TS]

  range and throughput has been you know [TS]

  that the tops they just did just have [TS]

  never done that but i will say you know [TS]

  as a fan of apples Wi-Fi routers one [TS]

  thing in my experience that Apple has [TS]

  done with its black hair products is [TS]

  that they have been I in my experience [TS]

  at the top of the consumer brands in [TS]

  terms of reliability like that don't [TS]

  reboot that don't flake out my [TS]

  experience with them has been very very [TS]

  solid so I always felt comfortable [TS]

  spending the ridiculous amount of money [TS]

  for these things both for the [TS]

  integration reasons because there is [TS]

  actually a surprising amount of crap [TS]

  integrated with them you mentioned time [TS]

  machine but it's also the Bonjour [TS]

  sleep-wake thing and the little app that [TS]

  comes with your mac and iOS devices to [TS]

  control them like there are you know [TS]

  Apple specific technologies and nice [TS]

  integration with the apple ecosystem [TS]

  goes along them and they were just [TS]

  always dead reliable for me i was [TS]

  willing to accept the crappy Wi-Fi [TS]

  performance for those two things because [TS]

  there's nothing worse than being in a [TS]

  house with like your Wi-Fi right yeah [TS]

  first world problems but but there I [TS]

  think they they fit into the old Apple [TS]

  model of giving you a product may not be [TS]

  the best but integrates with the apple [TS]

  ecosystem and we charge through the nose [TS]

  for it and it's actually pretty good [TS]

  yeah but unfortunately i don't think [TS]

  it's ever been a large business and and [TS]

  the thing is like as you get further [TS]

  away from the devices are you getting [TS]

  these two in the supporting roles [TS]

  whether using an Apple product lot are [TS]

  not matters a lot less like a monitor [TS]

  you know that matters somewhat not as [TS]

  much as you as you might you may think [TS]

  but it matters is your job unless you're [TS]

  John but if you're anybody else you know [TS]

  the monitor using the brand of the [TS]

  monitor whether it matches your computer [TS]

  or not or whether it's an official app [TS]

  monitor or not [TS]

  for the most part it doesn't affect your [TS]

  experience that badly if it's not that [TS]

  there's a few things that don't work [TS]

  quite right or or don't have a nice of [TS]

  experiences they could you know [TS]

  integrations you might that might not [TS]

  work for you like brightness control the [TS]

  keyboard stuff like that but for the [TS]

  most part you know your it's mostly fine [TS]

  with [TS]

  Wi-Fi router if that's not being made by [TS]

  apple for the most part you won't even [TS]

  notice I'm gonna continue to change [TS]

  something same people who are cranky [TS]

  about monitors like me like I have this [TS]

  experience recently because a lot of [TS]

  people after this announcement have been [TS]

  like oh great I'll i gotta shop for a [TS]

  bunch of Wi-Fi think what should i get [TS]

  and people in throwing on links lots of [TS]

  different things one of the ones that [TS]

  was shown to be like oh this is the best [TS]

  performance by like five percent you [TS]

  should get this one I forget what it was [TS]

  it was like a netgear or b or something [TS]

  like that anyway I'm like okay well look [TS]

  at these benchmarks gonna go look at the [TS]

  product like no sorry I can't like I [TS]

  can't have three of those sitting around [TS]

  and open spaces in my house because from [TS]

  for Wi-Fi that is in multiple places [TS]

  like to get whole house coverage you [TS]

  know that it's not just one like in the [TS]

  computer room or whatever there's one in [TS]

  my hall there's one in my bedroom and [TS]

  there's one in the computer room and I [TS]

  want them to be small unobtrusive and a [TS]

  reasonable looking and these netgear [TS]

  whatever they think they were they were [TS]

  tall ugly looked computery and I didn't [TS]

  want them in my house [TS]

  hot and so it's not say the apple ones [TS]

  are great because the stupid apple tower [TS]

  thingy is also big and ugly but i'm [TS]

  still shopping based on how these things [TS]

  will look like this is one of the [TS]

  reasons that the the euros have stayed [TS]

  in my house is that they are small and [TS]

  generally unobtrusive if they were [TS]

  bigger and uglier I would have a harder [TS]

  time you know like I'm like this is this [TS]

  is a shopping criteria so it is i mean [TS]

  the apple airport express is also small [TS]

  and unobtrusive it was so crappy that [TS]

  you wouldn't want so the Apple Apple has [TS]

  gotten itself out of this business by [TS]

  just you know in mac pro style by not [TS]

  updating the products for three years [TS]

  and never having them be particularly [TS]

  good and now it's like we're getting out [TS]

  of the water is so many people replied [TS]

  you've been out of the Wi-Fi business [TS]

  for so like in case you haven't noticed [TS]

  everyone else has been doing these mesh [TS]

  networks and you just have been selling [TS]

  this crappy overpricing for three years [TS]

  so some people might say good riddance [TS]

  but my my reaction to it was tweet apple [TS]

  out of everywhere which is a reference [TS]

  to the USA out of everywhere which is [TS]

  not that I'm endorsing this it was a [TS]

  snark because that kind of seems and on [TS]

  the same on the D content in front the [TS]

  idea like that Apple should get out of [TS]

  every single business [TS]

  it is not the iphone and then it's not a [TS]

  potentially multi-billion dollar thing [TS]

  like stop selling everything stopped [TS]

  selling you know [TS]

  stop selling me a USB cable stop selling [TS]

  lightning cable stop selling power [TS]

  adapters just stop selling everything [TS]

  like it you know it the bean counter [TS]

  kind of philosophy of just isolation is [TS]

  concentrate everything on the iphone get [TS]

  of all these other businesses and we [TS]

  kind of feel like we're in this [TS]

  contraction a period right now where [TS]

  they are getting out of the business i [TS]

  can bring this up from past shows they [TS]

  got out of the printer bigness and [TS]

  business and at the time that was a [TS]

  pretty big deal because apples printers [TS]

  were similar to Apple's Wi-Fi routers [TS]

  there were some really good ones in the [TS]

  beginning the apple laserwriter were [TS]

  actually pretty cool like the very early [TS]

  ones there weren't really any [TS]

  competitive products that were as cool [TS]

  they had a good integration with Apple's [TS]

  products better than third-party things [TS]

  eventually in the bad days when they [TS]

  were just taking canon inkjets things [TS]

  and wrapping them up with Apple outsides [TS]

  at least look nicer than traditional [TS]

  printers but they were all pretty crappy [TS]

  and when Apple stopped making them [TS]

  people kinda like all right well your [TS]

  printers are expensive anyway they were [TS]

  barely yours and you should get out of [TS]

  it but the thing you're talking about [TS]

  like now that Apple's out of you can [TS]

  look at the better alternatives [TS]

  how's that turned out for printers not [TS]

  too well if you look at printed right [TS]

  now they're all pretty crappy they're [TS]

  all pretty ugly and if there was an [TS]

  apple one the same stupid rich people [TS]

  who be tempted to buy overpriced crap [TS]

  the apple router is because they look [TS]

  nice and and are reliable would also be [TS]

  tempted to buy stupid overpriced crap [TS]

  the Apple printers in the more of the [TS]

  laser rider vain and style writer vein [TS]

  right that problem like the ecosystem [TS]

  problem has been what a lot of people [TS]

  are reacting to it a couple of random [TS]

  quotes from listeners here Maksym says [TS]

  all these products working together [TS]

  seamlessly created value apples killing [TS]

  its own ecosystem this is alex says [TS]

  there goes the only official way of [TS]

  having a wireless time machine backup [TS]

  which is not strictly true because i had [TS]

  recently has recently published the the [TS]

  apples time machine / sm b spec and i'll [TS]

  put a link to it in the show notes and [TS]

  as we all know from using technologies [TS]

  it is possible to have a third party [TS]

  products that reliably backs up of time [TS]

  machine but a lot of people want to just [TS]

  have the ease of saying I don't have to [TS]

  shop around for what things are going to [TS]

  work whatever if I just by all apple [TS]

  stuff everything will [TS]

  together and be nice looking and [TS]

  pleasant if I just give them a lot of [TS]

  money and as they remove pieces of that [TS]

  and say well actually that adapter you [TS]

  got away from belkin and printer you [TS]

  gotta buy from somebody else and they [TS]

  still all suck and wireless adapter you [TS]

  got a wireless Wi-Fi think you're [TS]

  probably gonna get it from your isp so [TS]

  you're not gonna buy one anyway but if [TS]

  you do buy one just you know go to wire [TS]

  cutter and find out what the good one [TS]

  isn't it will be ugly and it might be [TS]

  weird and it won't work with all our [TS]

  stuff but you'll be fine and it is a [TS]

  contracting of the ecosystem to the most [TS]

  essential elements which is good in that [TS]

  focuses Apple but as then more and six [TS]

  colors said this is quoting him it's not [TS]

  as if the ipad or most of the mac line [TS]

  is seen update recently either so what [TS]

  exactly is the company working on like [TS]

  if you're gonna like the idea of focuses [TS]

  stop doing that all extraneous stuff so [TS]

  you can concentrate all your awesome [TS]

  effort on the things that you care about [TS]

  and it could be was just a time lag they [TS]

  are doing that we just don't see the [TS]

  fruits of that focus yet so i hope there [TS]

  are fruits of this focus that come out [TS]

  of it but in the meantime we just got [TS]

  the pain of this focus which is now I [TS]

  gotta shop in the nasty shiny black [TS]

  plastic world of non-apple peripherals [TS]

  for yet more things that I used to be [TS]

  able to just throw money at Apple to [TS]

  give me John struggle is real [TS]

  alright is there any way we can avoid [TS]

  talking about the intense which weekend [TS]

  we could because we're an hour and a [TS]

  half into this but I know if we can [TS]

  squeeze it and no one wants to talk [TS]

  about Brent Simmons reverse halo effect [TS]

  because i think there's there's more to [TS]

  say about this Wi-Fi thing in the d [TS]

  contacting I know yeah Margo you think [TS]

  you can summarize the reverse halo [TS]

  effect basically the halo effect is when [TS]

  you make the whole ecosystem as people [TS]

  get into parts of it it's kind of easier [TS]

  to go to the rest of it like you're back [TS]

  in the day when you buy an ipod then [TS]

  maybe you know maybe your computer you [TS]

  might buy a Mac because you know that [TS]

  you were so impressed by the ipod you [TS]

  well maybe Apple computers are pretty [TS]

  good too you know you and same thing [TS]

  with the iphone anyway and Brandon's [TS]

  post called the reverse halo effect [TS]

  basically saying as Apple gets out of [TS]

  various businesses like monitors and [TS]

  Wi-Fi routers and everything people who [TS]

  are in the apple ecosystem who used to [TS]

  just throw things at the money Apple to [TS]

  just solve problems because things are [TS]

  pretty good [TS]

  most part when you did that once you [TS]

  start looking outside of apple for some [TS]

  of these key things maybe you'll start [TS]

  looking outside of Apple more for more [TS]

  needs and realize wait a minute if I can [TS]

  stop paying 300 dollars for apples fancy [TS]

  routers and I can start getting a really [TS]

  nice router for like 70 bucks maybe I [TS]

  could also get really nice you know [TS]

  cables from monoprice and hey what about [TS]

  that pc monitor the cost basically [TS]

  nothing and then eventually you're [TS]

  buying android phones and pcs wait are [TS]

  you saying their books that cost less [TS]

  than three hundred dollars they're only [TS]

  small one not a big one like that yeah [TS]

  the cut-down model literally yes so I I [TS]

  think there's something to this there to [TS]

  print reverse halo effect I I don't know [TS]

  how strong it will be i I'm I'm more [TS]

  concerned about the if I can summarize [TS]

  again this is this is kind of like a big [TS]

  feel like it like last time where I'm [TS]

  going to try to put this into words [TS]

  we've had to try to figure out context [TS]

  and meaning for a lot of Apple decisions [TS]

  recently that one of the interpretations [TS]

  of them is Apple might be getting a [TS]

  little too nickel-and-dime e or a little [TS]

  too and maybe I greedy but you know just [TS]

  like making decisions that are better [TS]

  for money than for the products and for [TS]

  their customers that their consumer [TS]

  decisions recently where that is one of [TS]

  the explanations and the other [TS]

  explanation is well we can try to figure [TS]

  out why things like the headphone jack i [TS]

  removed from the sub and stuff like that [TS]

  in the last few years I feel like the [TS]

  rate at which we have to make that [TS]

  interpretation example doesn't really [TS]

  provided or provides a week explanation [TS]

  it seems like we keep having to make [TS]

  those uses more and more with each new [TS]

  product change or product and/or [TS]

  practical effect we we are making a lot [TS]

  of excuses for apple recently where [TS]

  we're having to interpret lots of things [TS]

  charitably in in the same vein of like [TS]

  where there's smoke there's fire [TS]

  we are having to explain away decisions [TS]

  apples making as just being by being [TS]

  counter management or just being for [TS]

  nickel and diming a little too often [TS]

  recently and that has me worried [TS]

  there's a lot of cracks showing in the [TS]

  foundation like maybe there's a bigger [TS]

  picture thing here [TS]

  that we're all afraid to not only say [TS]

  but to even consider until maybe it will [TS]

  maybe it's too late [TS]

  I you know what the weird thing about [TS]

  the nickel and diming things like was [TS]

  it's such an obvious explanation for [TS]

  things like removing the little wings [TS]

  and you know the other obvious [TS]

  explanations are our research shows that [TS]

  nobody uses those wings and they often [TS]

  break off and it's simpler to not have [TS]

  them and simplicity is the ultimate [TS]

  sophistication and yada yada yada but [TS]

  what the other aspect of this that that [TS]

  is weird to me that makes me pull away [TS]

  from the nickel and diming angle [TS]

  although that totally is there i know [TS]

  there i know for a fact that there are [TS]

  factions inside Apple related to [TS]

  hardware product design that will always [TS]

  argue for saving money if possible [TS]

  because they're going to make a lot of [TS]

  these witches as well there has to be [TS]

  right but if you look at Apple spending [TS]

  R&D in recent years it is gone up hugely [TS]

  and so I when I look at these things I [TS]

  think they're willing to spend vast [TS]

  amounts of money to realize the design [TS]

  vision of their products in terms of [TS]

  like even just the new macbook pros but [TS]

  yeah there's unibody aluminum just like [TS]

  everything else surely they've already [TS]

  mastered that process and there's [TS]

  nothing new about this one nope nope i'm [TS]

  sure these machines have you know they [TS]

  they probably have new processes and new [TS]

  machines and even if it's just like the [TS]

  departing to exactly match up the little [TS]

  inside apple logo which they've done on [TS]

  the phones and everything like just [TS]

  doing that at scale and a larger things [TS]

  like every product they make me seem to [TS]

  be willing to put such huge amounts of [TS]

  money into like I don't care what it [TS]

  takes i don't care if we have to invent [TS]

  a new machine or by a company that sells [TS]

  this thing or do just cute you put huge [TS]

  amounts initial investment to make this [TS]

  perfectly designed product and yet on [TS]

  the other side of her like if you're [TS]

  willing to ramp up your R&D spending it [TS]

  really has gone up looking like a simcoe [TS]

  starts racing like its it is it's not [TS]

  just like a five percent increase over [TS]

  the past few years it is just like a 45 [TS]

  degree angle slope like it is there [TS]

  they're spending so much more money a [TS]

  lot of it's like oh that's all product [TS]

  tighten in the car whatever i'm not sure [TS]

  what they're spending on maybe some of [TS]

  it is that but i think they really are [TS]

  investing a lot of money even things [TS]

  like just the mac like the little old [TS]

  back and what it takes to manufacture [TS]

  the mac to you know [TS]

  to satisfy the vision and they're also [TS]

  removing a little wings and a little [TS]

  rubbery thing from the adapter admit it [TS]

  makes me think that those removals are [TS]

  more explained by someone's wrongheaded [TS]

  in my opinion idea of you know [TS]

  simplicity we need to just reduce stuff [TS]

  everything needs to be simpler you [TS]

  shouldn't have little lights on the [TS]

  adapter that is orange when it's [TS]

  charging and green when it's done [TS]

  because that's just one more thing and [TS]

  you should find out that information in [TS]

  other way I don't want to have a little [TS]

  light up button buttons on the bottom [TS]

  tell your battery charge because that [TS]

  would take up room in the case and it's [TS]

  just you know like it'sit's the computer [TS]

  equivalent of omit needless words like [TS]

  do you really need those little wings no [TS]

  get rid of them do you really need a [TS]

  little clip people find it annoying they [TS]

  don't know what it's for no get rid of [TS]

  its simplicity simplicity simplicity and [TS]

  that looks just like that little rubber [TS]

  widget thing cost point zero zero one [TS]

  sense digit right it looks the same from [TS]

  the outside and and like i said i know [TS]

  there are factions inside Apple that do [TS]

  want to argue for cheaping out on things [TS]

  just because it saves a little bit of [TS]

  extra money and it's so hard from the [TS]

  outside to say what is actually [TS]

  happening on the one hand we know for a [TS]

  fact that Apple's many way more on R&D [TS]

  than they used to [TS]

  on the other hand we know for a fact [TS]

  that they're canceling product lines and [TS]

  removing features and you know things [TS]

  that we know cost money every extra [TS]

  thing that you hit you know including [TS]

  that stupid power cable with the with [TS]

  the plug cost more money than not [TS]

  including it fact right did they you [TS]

  know removing a little wings and not [TS]

  removing it i'm going to say that costs [TS]

  more money to happen because another [TS]

  part that they have to deal with right [TS]

  the little rubber which anything is [TS]

  there really no little robbery thing on [TS]

  it [TS]

  Marco like they got rid of that porno [TS]

  it's just it's just like a regular like [TS]

  iOS lightning cable there's just just a [TS]

  plug on both ends and a wire the middle [TS]

  that's right it just plugs in this am it [TS]

  like that little rubbery thing it costs [TS]

  more money than to not have it right and [TS]

  so you can describe all these things to [TS]

  money and yet it makes much more sense [TS]

  for me that it is a wrongheaded attempt [TS]

  at simplicity or a slut you know our [TS]

  opinion like they've gone too far or [TS]

  that you are they haven't gone far [TS]

  enough if you want that simplicity admit [TS]

  let me charge wirelessly that's the [TS]

  ultimate simplicity if you're going to [TS]

  give me a wire give me a place to wrap [TS]

  it in a little rubber [TS]

  thing or you know whatever like that [TS]

  that's the problem and not so much of [TS]

  the bean counters are winning but apples [TS]

  the black hole we have no idea what's [TS]

  really going on so we just have to [TS]

  speculate and is easy to get angry like [TS]

  if you just decide one day you know [TS]

  what's the bean counters I hate them d [TS]

  content thing every goosenecks in my [TS]

  trunk right and the other days might be [TS]

  like no actually they're spending tons [TS]

  of money they're just spending on [TS]

  frivolous crap that I don't care that [TS]

  much about when I really wish they would [TS]

  just give me a cable with my power [TS]

  adapter and you know and the Wi-Fi [TS]

  things again it's a decision that [TS]

  happens in the context of all the other [TS]

  things were upset about you know if you [TS]

  neglect your product for three years [TS]

  people shed fewer tears when you cancel [TS]

  it because it can happen the mac pro [TS]

  right if give their their wireless [TS]

  routers where the top of their game and [TS]

  everybody loved them and they cancelled [TS]

  it would be much better than like well [TS]

  you know I haven't liked their arms [TS]

  around you like the worst thing about is [TS]

  like some people like I have an airport [TS]

  and i'll be using for 10 years so they [TS]

  go oh well I guess there really isn't a [TS]

  good business to be in a hut by one of [TS]

  your things and use it for 10 years [TS]

  right so totally makes sense for him to [TS]

  get out of this business but what Dan [TS]

  Morgan said still sticks with me is like [TS]

  if this is a two-phase operation in [TS]

  turning the Giant you know ship that is [TS]

  Apple step one get out of businesses you [TS]

  don't need to do being and step to [TS]

  redirect all that energy and money to [TS]

  the products you care about [TS]

  we're now experiencing the get out of [TS]

  the business that you don't want to be [TS]

  in part when do we get the part where [TS]

  all those all that effort and money and [TS]

  time and people results in the products [TS]

  that Apple supposedly does care about [TS]

  getting much more attention because now [TS]

  it seems like we're in the worst of all [TS]

  worlds like all the ancillary products [TS]

  are getting neglected or cancelled and [TS]

  the the main products are not getting [TS]

  substantially more attention it seems [TS]

  like we used to the max still seems a [TS]

  little bit neglected and the iphone and [TS]

  iOS devices they're getting the same [TS]

  amount they always did yearly updates [TS]

  everything's good they're right i don't [TS]

  see them getting fantastically more [TS]

  attention so where is this personal [TS]

  money and resources going to it [TS]

  no I guess we'll find out over the next [TS]

  few years they come out with like a [TS]

  hoverboard or amazing AR thing or [TS]

  something like that but the other thing [TS]

  is when the wife [TS]

  nothing like maybe they did all those [TS]

  people got put onto the apples answer to [TS]

  the google home or Amazon echo that [TS]

  would be nice i hope they do that if the [TS]

  Apple is going to make that product and [TS]

  it's not just like any part of the apple [TS]

  TV team that will be good to take this [TS]

  team who are making the Wi-Fi routers [TS]

  and redirecting because i think that is [TS]

  a better product for Apple then just a [TS]

  simple Wi-Fi router but of course i [TS]

  won't tell us so we just have to wonder [TS]

  yeah you know it was funny for me to [TS]

  watch the reactions to this report of of [TS]

  Apple ditching the airport routers [TS]

  because i don't know which one of us not [TS]

  I may be guilty of this as well which [TS]

  one of us has said Oh apple should focus [TS]

  but I've heard that a lot and then a lot [TS]

  of people seem to be very upset about 0 [TS]

  apple's shouldn't be killing this [TS]

  product and it's like wow [TS]

  can we pick one can we as it can we as a [TS]

  group pic well but focus means you get [TS]

  more of something else in exchange for [TS]

  thing you're removing they're just doing [TS]

  their removing but not doing okay now [TS]

  like 18 again it could be separated by [TS]

  time we have to wait for those resources [TS]

  to be you know so and so forth but [TS]

  that's what people when they mean focus [TS]

  what they really mean is the thing that [TS]

  I keep waiting for that i'm not getting [TS]

  give me that thing and if you need to [TS]

  sacrifice other things to do it fine and [TS]

  what they're getting is adjusting the [TS]

  sacrifice part like but no no you don't [TS]

  understand my important demand was you [TS]

  know update the Mac Mini or you know [TS]

  give me an even bigger ipad with a you [TS]

  know stylist or like whatever whatever [TS]

  thing is that you're waiting for [TS]

  that's what you want and what you're [TS]

  saying with the focuses stop doing [TS]

  insert thing that I don't care about and [TS]

  start doing thing I care about [TS]

  instead they're doing stop doing the [TS]

  thing that that I don't care about and [TS]

  then do nothing else different your head [TS]

  and then again you have to be patient [TS]

  yeah I i agree with you in it I'm not [TS]

  saying that anyone is wrong to have kind [TS]

  of both opinions because they both to [TS]

  make sense [TS]

  I my gut feeling is is that Apple is [TS]

  just pulling out of the things that they [TS]

  just don't really care about very much [TS]

  just like you said and and we will see [TS]

  some sort of marked improvement in other [TS]

  areas in the future but in terms of the [TS]

  the router specifically I'm not [TS]

  personally shutting it here about this i [TS]

  was using an airport express [TS]

  an old one in fact one of the one of the [TS]

  like pancake looking ones i was using [TS]

  one of those until 0 sent us some heroes [TS]

  and I mean they didn't sponsor this [TS]

  episode but i really like my heroes they [TS]

  work really well and and and I've stuck [TS]

  with them despite expecting to just plug [TS]

  them in for a week or two and then and [TS]

  then disconnect them so they're not the [TS]

  only option either i mean marcos talked [TS]

  in the past about ubiquity there's [TS]

  there's plenty of other options too [TS]

  I don't think it's unreasonable for [TS]

  Apple to get out of this business I [TS]

  don't think its core to what they really [TS]

  wanted what they really want to be and [TS]

  what they really want to do but I also [TS]

  simultaneously do understand brands [TS]

  point that hey if they just killed half [TS]

  the ecosystem in the ecosystem is now [TS]

  only defined as computers and play well [TS]

  desktop computers portable computers and [TS]

  hyper portable computers [TS]

  that's not much of an ecosystem anymore [TS]

  so it's it's a very double-edged sword [TS]

  i'm not sure what the right right [TS]

  balances but so far i'm going on faith [TS]

  that the balances ok what do you think [TS]

  about a markup i think i'm mostly with [TS]

  you I mean you know you like the the [TS]

  whole idea of like you know demanding [TS]

  focus and everything that you know that [TS]

  there's a huge disconnect everything [TS]

  like how much these things cost to focus [TS]

  on where to invest in was not investment [TS]

  like I don't think there is a massive [TS]

  staff still working on the router [TS]

  division which has released a router in [TS]

  like three years at least and and even [TS]

  the last one was even a fairly minor [TS]

  update i mean like i i'm i'm pretty sure [TS]

  that was not that was not like a huge [TS]

  array of the company compared to [TS]

  something like the car and I think it's [TS]

  this is a very different level of [TS]

  investment focus so to say like oh well [TS]

  you guys complain when they break the [TS]

  mac but then you know you want to keep [TS]

  making writers are monitors like yeah [TS]

  that the writers are monitors division [TS]

  is really a lot smaller than the mac [TS]

  division and it's you know they're [TS]

  spending money on lots of things like [TS]

  like you know and as as a as Jason and [TS]

  my talk about an upgrade this week like [TS]

  they're still making ipods multiple [TS]

  models of ipods someone still buying [TS]

  them but like do you think the ipod [TS]

  business is really that much healthier [TS]

  than like monitors and airport streams [TS]

  combined [TS]

  it probably is healthier but by how much [TS]

  like they still do that they're still [TS]

  happy to sell those I honestly don't [TS]

  know why [TS]

  and as I mentioned before like if they [TS]

  could get rid of the ipod business they [TS]

  could get rid of a lot of iTunes which [TS]

  would help itunes be less terrible so [TS]

  like there's even reasons why they [TS]

  should get rid of that but they're still [TS]

  doing that because it's still making [TS]

  money i guess you know and so I don't [TS]

  know their decisions on what to complete [TS]

  what you to support and and what to [TS]

  prioritize and what products should ship [TS]

  and what products never see the light of [TS]

  day [TS]

  it's hard for us to judge because we're [TS]

  not in there you know we don't know [TS]

  everything they're doing we don't know [TS]

  that the decision-making why they make [TS]

  them and the data they have and and you [TS]

  know what they base their decisions on [TS]

  we don't know any of those things you're [TS]

  trying to kill the ipod aren't you [TS]

  you talked about the yeah like they're [TS]

  making a lot of money with Wi-Fi routers [TS]

  now you're like I don't understand [TS]

  whether still well I guess that means [TS]

  everybody as you're listening to this [TS]

  wait about a week and then apple [TS]

  announced that is no longer making the [TS]

  ipod thanks a lot Margo that they're [TS]

  gonna go through one more holiday season [TS]

  with the icon they're not going to cure [TS]

  it's not going to kill it after Black [TS]

  Friday lastly I think we'll one of the [TS]

  things although a lot of people when [TS]

  they saw the the airport then cancel [TS]

  they said like well I guess the ipod [TS]

  touch not long for this world like [TS]

  honestly one of the things that I think [TS]

  is keeping the ipod around is the fact [TS]

  that it's called ipod that name has such [TS]

  residents with Apple same reason to keep [TS]

  calling these computers imax now that [TS]

  they're you know have barely anything in [TS]

  common with the original candy-colored [TS]

  thing but as I think about the ecosystem [TS]

  argument and the reversal effects like [TS]

  that I feel like in this case it's also [TS]

  slightly tied up with the mac being [TS]

  emphasized you know from the perspective [TS]

  of of mac enthusiasts because the iOS [TS]

  side of things they have an ecosystem [TS]

  apple makes iOS devices and update some [TS]

  regularly they make battery cases they [TS]

  make front cases they make back cases [TS]

  for them they make you know styluses [TS]

  they make keyboards that you know the [TS]

  ecosystem if you were to buy iOS device [TS]

  apple will sell you almost everything [TS]

  that you can use it also you watch the [TS]

  you can use with your iOS is available [TS]

  they will sell you all sorts of things [TS]

  there in businesses in the iOS side that [TS]

  we didn't think they would ever get into [TS]

  there is an iOS device ecosystem and yes [TS]

  Apple ones are usually not it's not the [TS]

  best months and are more expensive but [TS]

  if you just want to go all Apple you [TS]

  know and the do-good many people made [TS]

  their also in a dongle ecosystem if you [TS]

  just want to go all apple for the most [TS]

  part you can just go lay down a couple [TS]

  hundred bucks and a lot of white dongles [TS]

  except for the ones that belt makes but [TS]

  anyway iOS seems to be treated now like [TS]

  the mac used to like they're making the [TS]

  equivalent of printers for for the iOS [TS]

  devices that they will make every [TS]

  accessory that you could recently helped [TS]

  to have when I was over they bought a [TS]

  headphone company so you could plug your [TS]

  headphones into your iOS device I have [TS]

  pants like that ecosystem is healthy [TS]

  it's just because we're over here on the [TS]

  mac side and for whatever reason we we [TS]

  adopt the Wi-Fi things as part of the [TS]

  mac ecosystem because they existed [TS]

  before you know any of the iOS stuff [TS]

  existed right and certainly the monitors [TS]

  are maxing and everything like that it [TS]

  feels like the mac side is having its [TS]

  ecosystem d contentedly and everything [TS]

  and but the iOS side [TS]

  I mean it's holding steady isn't like [TS]

  they're expanding did not like we see [TS]

  the Apple have device based on iOS quite [TS]

  yet but that's why I feel like this this [TS]

  position almost feels like another stab [TS]

  at the mac ecosystem and not so much as [TS]

  the apple ecosystem that it really did [TS]

  it's really telling people we talked [TS]

  about the apple ecosystem reverse halo [TS]

  effect whatever the apple ecosystem is [TS]

  not the mac ecosystem hasn't been for a [TS]

  long time for certain people people of a [TS]

  certain age as they say in France then [TS]

  the apple ecosystem is synonymous with [TS]

  the mac ecosystem even though the [TS]

  numbers have not supported that for you [TS]

  know years and years and years so that's [TS]

  that's one reason that I think a lot of [TS]

  the same people who are upset about [TS]

  neglecting the mac and not making [TS]

  monitors are also upset about the Wi-Fi [TS]

  think back a lot of people said to me I [TS]

  wasn't really that upset about monitors [TS]

  but this this Airport thing is really [TS]

  hit me hard you know I think people [TS]

  losing sleep over the airport things as [TS]

  well he even though this is a three year [TS]

  old crappy product [TS]

  yeah so I think we're just gonna have to [TS]

  take our lumps in this one and hope that [TS]

  all this redirected effort doesn't get [TS]

  funneled into like new colors of battery [TS]

  cases for iOS devices that's not the [TS]

  ecosystem we want to see this ever [TS]

  redirected and early [TS]

  I don't mean anything to us like I i [TS]

  don't really have strong thoughts on the [TS]

  matter is being discontinued and I don't [TS]

  really have strong thoughts on the weird [TS]

  new product every book they launched i [TS]

  just i do as i said earlier like I do [TS]

  worry about the the overall picture here [TS]

  does this indicate a trend going the [TS]

  wrong way and I think we we are seeing [TS]

  again we were seeing so many things that [TS]

  just seemed like we have to really [TS]

  interpret them charitably in order to to [TS]

  avoid the conclusion that things are [TS]

  going in a direction that that we that [TS]

  might not be good for us or it might be [TS]

  good for apple [TS]

  well don't worry if you think about it [TS]

  the soon-to-be prior airport express was [TS]

  kind of cylindrical towery looking thing [TS]

  right and that looks almost like a [TS]

  trashcan mac pros so therefore you're [TS]

  clear to get new mac pro's any second [TS]

  now [TS]

  thanks for three sponsors this week [TS]

  warby parker kingdom and automatic we [TS]

  will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental [TS]

  John any research Marco in kc would help [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find the show know today TV [TS]

  that and it's twitter follow them [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay RM Angie Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

  at Syracuse is [TS]

  we did you guys both watch Grand Tour i [TS]

  did did I i posted a I don't know if I'd [TS]

  call it a review but i guess was a [TS]

  review of the first episode on my [TS]

  website it is possible that by the time [TS]

  this episode is released that the second [TS]

  episode will be out but in summary there [TS]

  were things that I didn't like which i'm [TS]

  sure we'll talk about but by and large I [TS]

  thought was freaking great i'll and i [TS]

  loved it [TS]

  yeah I i also i was very pleased that I [TS]

  I didn't think some parts like some of [TS]

  the in studio bits I thought dragged on [TS]

  a little long [TS]

  mm-hmm but I do kind of like sorry we're [TS]

  gonna do a spoiler honk or something are [TS]

  you are spoiling that haha like this [TS]

  boiling it's just a grantor come on it's [TS]

  it's going to be spoiled so if you [TS]

  haven't seen it at this point at the [TS]

  very least if you haven't seen the first [TS]

  five or so minutes at least watch that [TS]

  much and then come back to the show yeah [TS]

  so anyway big spoiler hunk the whole bit [TS]

  in the middle with like the celebrities [TS]

  I kind of that did go on very long but [TS]

  anyway and it was really cheesy but I do [TS]

  kind of think like I mean I'll be honest [TS]

  like you know I've never been as bigger [TS]

  talk to your fans UKC and every single [TS]

  time they would sit down and do the [TS]

  celebrity interview i would skip that [TS]

  entire section i would just fast-forward [TS]

  over it until I got to the end and then [TS]

  go back to go back to the fun segment [TS]

  we're back in the car doing stuff i [TS]

  never cared about the celebrity [TS]

  interviews at also if there is little [TS]

  thing that they did here looks kind of [TS]

  indicated that they might be killing off [TS]

  the segment I consider that a feature [TS]

  that that's great i I'm looking forward [TS]

  to that I i do also before we get into [TS]

  anything else about the show [TS]

  I've seen a number of people over the [TS]

  last few days ask me about my / our [TS]

  support of a show that features Jeremy [TS]

  Clarkson who has done things that are [TS]

  you know controversial and in many ways [TS]

  offensive and what how can we have that [TS]

  point of view where we where we like we [TS]

  enjoy and support the show he's on while [TS]

  being anti Donald Trump [TS]

  for instance because he has made [TS]

  comments in the past that i believe were [TS]

  slightly racist i honestly am not that [TS]

  familiar with with whatever the [TS]

  controversies around him have been [TS]

  besides the more recent thing where he [TS]

  beat up somebody about a steak or [TS]

  something but i will say my opinion of [TS]

  the general answer to this is I would [TS]

  not want Jeremy Clarkson being the [TS]

  president of my country I but it's [TS]

  totally it's totally reasonable to my [TS]

  opinion to enjoy his television show is [TS]

  so that is my insert of hat is that I [TS]

  have very different standards for the [TS]

  president of my country and a television [TS]

  host and those used to be separate jobs [TS]

  yep i completely agree and in moreover i [TS]

  don't i think whenever we hear this sort [TS]

  of angst nine times out of 10 it's [TS]

  coming from someone who lives in the UK [TS]

  and from what I can gather Clarkson [TS]

  invades the UK popular media in a way [TS]

  that he does not in the United States [TS]

  and the only exposure that the three of [TS]

  us [TS]

  I'm speaking for you but the only [TS]

  exposure the three of us really have to [TS]

  Clarkson easy either [TS]

  you know top gear in the past or Grand [TS]

  Tour nail it so we don't see any of this [TS]

  stuff that makes the media in the UK [TS]

  that makes everyone just literally hate [TS]

  him [TS]

  we don't get to see any of that which [TS]

  for and because of that I don't think he [TS]

  bothers us in a way he very deeply [TS]

  bothers a lot of the UK but it coming [TS]

  back to the show I thought it was really [TS]

  good i couldn't agree more i thought the [TS]

  parts in the studio were pretty rough [TS]

  I thought that the celebrity thing I [TS]

  agree with you that the starter very [TS]

  reasonably priced car was never my [TS]

  favorite segments and oftentimes was [TS]

  really hard to watch [TS]

  oftentimes in a similar vein because it [TS]

  was a it was somebody from the UK that I [TS]

  didn't have the faintest idea who it was [TS]

  and so I would not shed tears if [TS]

  starting reasonably priced car went away [TS]

  I mean obviously would have a different [TS]

  name anyhow I thought the the stick [TS]

  about the air force was not very funny [TS]

  at all in the same way that the [TS]

  celebrity thing was not very funny at [TS]

  all now by the time this episode is out [TS]

  i doubt that the latest analog will be [TS]

  out but i will put a link in the show [TS]

  notes that will be broken until that [TS]

  episode was released but anyway Mike and [TS]

  I spoke about this on analog at the end [TS]

  of that episode and Mike thought both of [TS]

  those were hilarious and and what he had [TS]

  said to me which is the same theory i [TS]

  had was maybe it's just some like [TS]

  british humor thing that he's wired for [TS]

  in that we are not but I did not find [TS]

  those segments funny at all now he just [TS]

  has a bad sense of humor that wasn't fun [TS]

  haha [TS]

  there's no there's no planet there's no [TS]

  country there's no anywhere that like I [TS]

  mean it wasn't like the most painful [TS]

  thing in the world but it didn't land [TS]

  like it was ill-advised it was not a [TS]

  good concept it was not executed well [TS]

  just it was it was all sorts of wrong it [TS]

  should not have they no just no i mean [TS]

  like Amy it didn't give another example [TS]

  the shooting of celebrities also [TS]

  probably ill-advised but at least the [TS]

  execution was slightly better like they [TS]

  tried to redeem with execution whereas [TS]

  the air force stuff like a bad idea also [TS]

  bad execution also you're a bad person [TS]

  should feel bad [TS]

  also both arguments were like about [TS]

  fifty percent longer than they should [TS]

  have been no that's more than the [TS]

  badness and more like it's just that you [TS]

  know it's like the SNL sketch where it's [TS]

  not working it's like well we gotta play [TS]

  this thing out right now and just gonna [TS]

  fix it in editing like we all know we're [TS]

  watching at no no it's not just like but [TS]

  I'm Clarkson comes out with the little [TS]

  trickle of blood in a space like this is [TS]

  the guy who just punch someone in the [TS]

  face and fired from his job and this is [TS]

  where you're going to go with this joke [TS]

  that he's in a fistfight with the [TS]

  audience [TS]

  no yeah no no good i bought by contrast [TS]

  however I thought the opening three or [TS]

  four minutes were perfect just freaking [TS]

  perfect from the first frame until they [TS]

  jumped out of the cars at the at the at [TS]

  the was it burning van I thought that [TS]

  entire segment was just perfect and [TS]

  yellows Clarkson leaving the BBC [TS]

  headquarters are believed it was anyway [TS]

  and when it was rainy and dreary because [TS]

  well London and then he goes to Heathrow [TS]

  gets on a plane to LAX he comes out of [TS]

  Los Angeles and there's a little bit of [TS]

  a [TS]

  piano riff going it's kind of sad and [TS]

  and then he finds himself this bespoke [TS]

  mustang and he pulls out and then you [TS]

  realize it's i forget the name of the [TS]

  song but you know it's about a sunshiny [TS]

  days [TS]

  John's name of the song remember what [TS]

  song would ya something about its a [TS]

  bright sunshiny day I can see clearly [TS]

  now the rain is gone [TS]

  yeah yeah exactly it doesn't matter i [TS]

  figured jon renau but the point being [TS]

  you know it's you can hear the lyrics [TS]

  about yes I can see clearly now the rain [TS]

  is gone and then Clarkson goes driving [TS]

  into the desert by himself in this blue [TS]

  mustang and then suddenly he looks to [TS]

  his left and he looks to his right and [TS]

  he and you just see maybe he was acting [TS]

  who knows because clearly he knew this [TS]

  was going to happen but he just [TS]

  genuinely seems so happy and he looks [TS]

  over it may and he looks over at hammond [TS]

  and all three they look so happy in [TS]

  their red white and blue mustang such [TS]

  i'm going to take as an American [TS]

  reference even though i am well aware [TS]

  that the union jack has the same same [TS]

  colors and they drive into this desert [TS]

  where these Mustangs can run free just [TS]

  like the other horses do and they drive [TS]

  up to burning van and and the first [TS]

  words that are really said or they're [TS]

  making fun of each other for getting [TS]

  fired from everything I just I thought [TS]

  the whole opening was perfect and [TS]

  perhaps more importantly John you [TS]

  finally had your moment you finally had [TS]

  those three cars together [TS]

  what did you think well i have had some [TS]

  complaints about the show before we do [TS]

  that I don't get a slightly different [TS]

  take on on the opening like okay I know [TS]

  what they're going for the opening and [TS]

  they were they were not patting [TS]

  themselves on the back too much but by [TS]

  the same token there was a little bit of [TS]

  a tone as if they were wrong or Jeremy [TS]

  was wrong somehow and that he can see [TS]

  that I was wrong and must end is forced [TS]

  to set out on his own and find a new [TS]

  happiness and he was not wrong [TS]

  he was in the wrong and didn't I great [TS]

  particularly remorseful about it like [TS]

  the tone was we had a bad thing happen [TS]

  to us and we're going to pick ourselves [TS]

  up by our bootstraps and come back which [TS]

  is a good story but not what actually [TS]

  happened right here in this for me [TS]

  alright I don't want to go to par- [TS]

  populated with and I think they're there [TS]

  in a difficult position because what [TS]

  they want to be doing is still doing Top [TS]

  Gear right that's what they would like [TS]

  to be doing but they're not they've got [TS]

  to do this other thing and so and they [TS]

  acknowledge that they like you know they [TS]

  do all the jokes about like they have [TS]

  segments and they have you know like all [TS]

  the things from Top Gear that they can [TS]

  have without using the names maybe with [TS]

  a slight twist they don't like try to [TS]

  play it off as like what just happened [TS]

  to be doing these things that are a lot [TS]

  like Top Gear like they have to [TS]

  acknowledge it but but it's difficult to [TS]

  difficult to find what is this new show [TS]

  if it's not just like top gear but not [TS]

  top gear but slightly worse probably in [TS]

  a couple ways we may be better and you [TS]

  too so I it's a difficult tightrope [TS]

  there now as for the segments that I [TS]

  actually care about on the show which is [TS]

  them doing car stuff they did get the [TS]

  three cars there and I was ready to tear [TS]

  my hair out watching the three-time try [TS]

  to get those cars off the line to a drag [TS]

  race haha i know is it is a bit right [TS]

  but like I don't want to see you Pam [TS]

  fisted people pretending to be [TS]

  handfasted or really bi i would think [TS]

  they'd probably really were handfasted a [TS]

  lot of the cases but some of them [TS]

  obviously the other doing it on purpose [TS]

  i want to know how you know how the cars [TS]

  go and they do they have their driver [TS]

  and they did read them around the track [TS]

  and they eventually kind of read it but [TS]

  like I feel like this car [TS]

  everything about this card test segment [TS]

  was not up to the best of top gear [TS]

  either the best of single host reviews [TS]

  because I've enjoyed a lot of single [TS]

  host reviews when that you know one [TS]

  person just tries out the car and talks [TS]

  about it or the best multi host things [TS]

  the the camera shots like that you know [TS]

  just it didn't look like Top Gear [TS]

  exactly look good [TS]

  it wasn't bad but top gear and set such [TS]

  a high bar for these you know [TS]

  beautifully shot moody raining misty [TS]

  things with with an overarching theme [TS]

  like I feel like that the good top gear [TS]

  car thing is like my OS 10 reviews were [TS]

  like you try to weave a story throughout [TS]

  the thing doesn't inherently have a [TS]

  story even it's just the story is the [TS]

  story of your opinion of this car right [TS]

  it it's a high bar I don't think they [TS]

  like they met it with this and I was [TS]

  annoyed by [TS]

  their shenanigans when really they [TS]

  should have been getting on with the car [TS]

  parts of it and also nothing i'm annoyed [TS]

  by but i have slight disagreement with [TS]

  their like they're leveling decision so [TS]

  we put them all on the same tires but we [TS]

  didn't level a bunch of other things I [TS]

  don't know I the upshot of this to spoil [TS]

  the end of this three hypercar thing the [TS]

  upshot is it's a non result exist within [TS]

  the margin of error right because they [TS]

  were all within like fractions of a [TS]

  second of each other and you just feel [TS]

  like even though all the same driver and [TS]

  every car [TS]

  it may be that drivers better at Haddad [TS]

  dealing with four wheel drive cars maybe [TS]

  the course had more tight turns its own [TS]

  favorite the Porsche maybe like no other [TS]

  little parts came in last I think it [TS]

  seemed model to me i'm glad that so much [TS]

  of the car was so much of the show was [TS]

  car reviews but it seemed a little bit [TS]

  muddled i can understand that I'm said [TS]

  you're ruining the opening for me [TS]

  because i really do think it was [TS]

  freaking isn't running like it just you [TS]

  know if I had to pick in it and like it [TS]

  was it it takes away from like being [TS]

  able to share in their in their triumph [TS]

  right and also like the idea of them [TS]

  driving across the desert with a bunch [TS]

  of yokels with their cars all the dust [TS]

  that was like you just ruin your cross [TS]

  with all the dust [TS]

  o course just that exact words like [TS]

  someone someone had a vector in there [TS]

  it's like don't try the vector across [TS]

  the desert you're just that's it's like [TS]

  a museum piece [TS]

  you know go and he said that belongs in [TS]

  a museum doesn't belong covered with [TS]

  dust that's why your phone as a case of [TS]

  the Ferrari expecting a Porsche came in [TS]

  first then the Ferrari and McLaren if [TS]

  memory serves [TS]

  anyway that was always the fear with the [TS]

  other vendors like four wheel drive is a [TS]

  big advantage in anything that has lots [TS]

  of tight turns but you can you know get [TS]

  on the power soon after them and so it's [TS]

  almost as if you could you could put a [TS]

  particular Carly by picking the course [TS]

  right i mean because you know the [TS]

  Ferrari had the best power-to-weight [TS]

  ratio so if you pick the courseware [TS]

  power-to-weight ratio is the thing that [TS]

  decides it then that would be it but you [TS]

  know but they were so close it was like [TS]

  less than have a second between all of [TS]

  them right and and you know you don't [TS]

  know how many laps they ran and so [TS]

  there's make it seem like you run one [TS]

  lap that's not how you do it you try to [TS]

  go for your fastest lap and you know you [TS]

  learn the instance in the car and you [TS]

  know just spend a day just on one car to [TS]

  get your fastest lap who knows what they [TS]

  really do under the covers so it's all [TS]

  kind of artificial but I [TS]

  would rather have seen more about them [TS]

  describing how the cars are different [TS]

  from each other which they did do and [TS]

  they changed cars and everything but [TS]

  they had a bit with it we had to use my [TS]

  you know rudimentary French to [TS]

  understand what that test driver was [TS]

  actually saying versus the stupid [TS]

  subtitle gag like I want to hear what he [TS]

  actually thinks of the cars i don't care [TS]

  about your we get it you're rooting for [TS]

  your cars but I still want to actually [TS]

  know what this person thinks of the cars [TS]

  that also not a little bit long [TS]

  yeah anyway I still think that Ferrari i [TS]

  would also say I I didn't care for the [TS]

  American the state driver segment that [TS]

  was the high like a British [TS]

  was the high like a British [TS]

  persons view of an ugly americans like [TS]

  yeah we are we do have there are [TS]

  american stereotypes but you're not [TS]

  really like you're not really nailing it [TS]

  with the but the whole communist think [TS]

  it's such a like that the Cold War is [TS]

  over [TS]

  Americans are not tested the hating the [TS]

  Communist anymore there are so many [TS]

  other newer american stereotypes that [TS]

  you could have latched onto but in [TS]

  general I don't know if that's your best [TS]

  bet is going like this American has the [TS]

  prejudices of Americans that ugly [TS]

  americans had in the eighties does he [TS]

  obviously probably doesn't and I don't [TS]

  need to see that and the faceless take [TS]

  was a much better version of that [TS]

  character [TS]

  yeah but overall though I mean I really [TS]

  did enjoy the show I like Tiffany both [TS]

  watch it [TS]

  we got a lot of laughs from us I really [TS]

  did enjoy it quite a bit [TS]

  I i would say and an e-tip even comment [TS]

  and i agreed like the first two minutes [TS]

  of the show were better than the new [TS]

  official top gear like the entire [TS]

  episode think that it is it's already [TS]

  certainly before anybody even said a [TS]

  word [TS]

  it was already better than official new [TS]

  top gear was busy like these three [TS]

  people like this all reason that [TS]

  watching the show at all right not the [TS]

  format of the cars as a three people as [TS]

  it turns out if you get three people [TS]

  together with just unbelievable [TS]

  chemistry amazing things can happen [TS]

  anyway the chemistry and history to [TS]

  write like they've been because you've [TS]

  seen all the other shows with them so [TS]

  you coming in showing what they think of [TS]

  things and you know like I think this is [TS]

  a shaky first episode but I feel like [TS]

  they will eventually get their groove [TS]

  and even plan all top gear like terrible [TS]

  for so much of the season but the end [TS]

  there they were kind of getting it but [TS]

  it's so clear that the chemistry doesn't [TS]

  exist among about like you could feel [TS]

  the hate on the screen that's not a good [TS]

  look that's better [TS]

  it was it also let's not forget the [TS]

  first couple of seasons of Top Gear i'm [TS]

  not talking about the ones like the [TS]

  fifties I'm saying like 2001-2002 do [TS]

  when the Clark scenario started the [TS]

  first couple of seasons of Top Gear were [TS]

  awful just terrible and the newest [TS]

  season of top gear with LeBlanc and [TS]

  chris evans they started really really [TS]

  bad but just like said John by the end [TS]

  of it really wasn't that bad at all and [TS]

  it's not unreasonable for the first few [TS]

  episodes if not season of Grand Tour to [TS]

  be a little bit wonky the American I [TS]

  didn't I wasn't bothered by it but i [TS]

  agree with you Marco I didn't think it [TS]

  was very funny i just thought it was a [TS]

  thing and also real-time follow-up [TS]

  porsche 918 150 4.2 laferrari 154 point [TS]

  4 p-11 55.5 so I about a second and a [TS]

  half between all three of them well as [TS]

  the p1 was way behind it but the right [TS]

  that if you had the grip your tires and [TS]

  the v1 maybe it would have come in first [TS]

  like it was it was so so close on the [TS]

  one thing I'm thinking about is like the [TS]

  clock ticking on these guys I mean in [TS]

  some respects like I like Chris Harris [TS]

  in terms of talking about any of these [TS]

  guys I love Christmas he should yep you [TS]

  know he should be able to talk you're [TS]

  right but these three guys freaking [TS]

  known through many years of watching top [TS]

  here whatever the problem they had they [TS]

  have increasingly facing the problem [TS]

  that will eventually do them in is that [TS]

  very old cranky probably racist [TS]