The Accidental Tech Podcast

195: The Show Must Go On

 

  my kids were refusing the purple [TS]

  potatoes so it made into blind taste [TS]

  test and they couldn't tell the [TS]

  difference on my cot your stupid videos [TS]

  it's not burned its purple just eat it [TS]

  so as chief summarizer in chief that job [TS]

  is usually quite delightful but on rare [TS]

  rare occasions it is anything but [TS]

  delightful and and we're recording the [TS]

  night of november nine 2016 last night [TS]

  are our country made a very peculiar [TS]

  choice that none of the three of us [TS]

  agree with and we were debating what to [TS]

  do about the presidential election and [TS]

  when how we should handle it what we [TS]

  should say about what we should talk [TS]

  about and the conclusion of the three of [TS]

  us came to is we wanted to acknowledge [TS]

  that it is the thing and it happened and [TS]

  were upset but otherwise carry on [TS]

  it's going to do me some good to forget [TS]

  about this for a little while i think [TS]

  it's going to do you guys some good to [TS]

  forget about this for awhile and [TS]

  genuinely no star contended it's our [TS]

  hope that it will do you the listener [TS]

  some good to not think about that for a [TS]

  while I'm upset I'm frustrated and I'm [TS]

  angry but but really I'm gonna get over [TS]

  these macro soon for the macbook person [TS]

  I ruin my own joke look at that that's [TS]

  how angry I that's where we're all yeah [TS]

  we're going to totally fix that in post [TS]

  but anyway but no seriously though you [TS]

  know what I I all kidding aside we're [TS]

  all frustrated were all upset and i'll [TS]

  give you guys a chance to weigh and if [TS]

  you have anything to add [TS]

  but it's gonna be business as usual [TS]

  around here and bring a try our best to [TS]

  just move along [TS]

  yeah and i do want to clarify like you [TS]

  know where we're not i'm not for a [TS]

  second going to forget this just [TS]

  happened and I and I I'm not going to [TS]

  pretend that didn't happen i'm not going [TS]

  to forget what this means what this [TS]

  signifies to so many Americans this this [TS]

  is not going to be forgotten at all but [TS]

  we have a texture to do so we're going [TS]

  to the tech show and hopefully that can [TS]

  help us and our listeners temporarily [TS]

  get a reprieve from what has happened at [TS]

  the show must go on as they say we've [TS]

  talked about this before we will talk [TS]

  on social topics what has the intersect [TS]

  with tech and this you know potentially [TS]

  intersects with everything but i think [TS]

  this falls into the category of we [TS]

  mentioned on a past show that if [TS]

  something really big happens it would be [TS]

  weird if we didn't acknowledge it but by [TS]

  the same token but especially with how [TS]

  all three of us are feeling today and [TS]

  now a lot of a lot of listeners are [TS]

  feeling today your overwhelming [TS]

  consensus is we just want to do a [TS]

  regular show as a brief respite from [TS]

  what we've all been dealing with today [TS]

  and we'll be dealing with going forward [TS]

  so there you have it [TS]

  yeah so let's start with some follow-up [TS]

  is psycho rights in to say Apple did not [TS]

  ship in ed ram / iris pro skylake on the [TS]

  15-inch macbook it is HD 530i is that [TS]

  we're talking about video cards is that [TS]

  right yeah that was in my reference to [TS]

  what I was talking about in the past [TS]

  show or I said that Apple kind of is put [TS]

  yourself in a difficult position by [TS]

  demanding the the highest and fanciest [TS]

  version of all the chips especially with [TS]

  the biggest GPU embedded in them and we [TS]

  better if they were with the winter [TS]

  trips and just use the discreet but [TS]

  that's what they actually did on the 15 [TS]

  instruments not wimpy it's the 83 530 is [TS]

  one of the better ones but it's not the [TS]

  one with the embedded dram and the Irish [TS]

  pro think so [TS]

  and now i'm not saying Irish pro which [TS]

  is what everyone here is probably what [TS]

  happened [TS]

  I'm trying to say iris pro but it's [TS]

  difficult goodness [TS]

  alright moving along the touch bar [TS]

  apparently registers past the screen [TS]

  area particularly on the left-hand side [TS]

  where the Escape key [TS]

  well I guess is not a kid anymore the [TS]

  escape button would be okay can we talk [TS]

  about how we know this or should we not [TS]

  talk about how we know this there was a [TS]

  French website that posted something [TS]

  that someone our listener translated for [TS]

  me but the the difference that is what [TS]

  we're discussing like it's a shame that [TS]

  they didn't have the touch part always [TS]

  had left because you can reach the upper [TS]

  left-hand corner and feel for it and but [TS]

  that part of that screen we knew that [TS]

  for a fact from the from day one that [TS]

  part is not a screen you can't draw the [TS]

  escape button up against the left end of [TS]

  the bar question was alright so there's [TS]

  no image there but is it touch sensitive [TS]

  and the answer is about half to send [TS]

  touch-sensitive like so if you just take [TS]

  the blank space where you can't show any [TS]

  pixels on [TS]

  outside of the touch bar and divide it [TS]

  in half vertically the left half of it [TS]

  does nothing you hit it doesn't do [TS]

  anything it's not touch sensitive it's [TS]

  not pressure-sensitive doesn't light up [TS]

  for anything [TS]

  the right half of the blank region [TS]

  doesn't light up but does register your [TS]

  touch in some way and because it's about [TS]

  the width of your finger you can pretty [TS]

  much take your finger and jam it on the [TS]

  left side of the touch bar and it will [TS]

  activate the Escape key in fact it will [TS]

  activate the escapee even have no part [TS]

  of your fingers actually touching any of [TS]

  the pixels that make up the Escape key [TS]

  or the picture of the escapee or [TS]

  whatever so it's kind of a weird to [TS]

  compromise like the almost got to go [TS]

  edge but not quite and I guess maybe one [TS]

  and I fix it doesn't tear now maybe [TS]

  they'll figure out why like how did the [TS]

  touch sensors extend that far how far [TS]

  does the you know the screen go and so [TS]

  on and so forth [TS]

  have either of you done with the the the [TS]

  simulated touch bar on an ipad yet know [TS]

  that does that [TS]

  yeah but it's the wrong size isn't it so [TS]

  it since it would be much of a test of [TS]

  anything it's interesting like iran iran [TS]

  that way yesterday for a while i was [TS]

  working and it's actually kind of [TS]

  interesting well iguess looking to [TS]

  forget your off hand but Stephen Stephen [TS]

  transfer has been tweeting a lot here [TS]

  and there and different things and [TS]

  basically like you have to have xcode [TS]

  you have to install the special build of [TS]

  10-12 one that isn't the real 10-12 one [TS]

  but it's a new 10-12 one with a [TS]

  different build number you have to [TS]

  download separately most websites kind [TS]

  of a mess data working together like get [TS]

  it running on an ipad which means you [TS]

  have to have a signing provisioning [TS]

  profile and everything but if you can [TS]

  get past all that which is a lot [TS]

  it is interesting to see and so you know [TS]

  i just i place my 9.7 inch iPad pro [TS]

  right in on top my keyboard kind of in [TS]

  the right spot where it should be and [TS]

  it's interesting like you know so as you [TS]

  mentioned it is significantly smaller [TS]

  than the real touch pocket but i'm able [TS]

  to estimate from pictures that the real [TS]

  touch bar is 11 inches long or 10 inches [TS]

  long or something like that and and the [TS]

  ipad 9.7 type the side screen is like [TS]

  seven points something inches long so [TS]

  it's substantially smaller and you can [TS]

  tell it to touch targets do feel a [TS]

  little bit small [TS]

  when you run the simulator but it is [TS]

  really cool to see it as you move [TS]

  throughout the osu to see what the touch [TS]

  bar actually does and how it responds to [TS]

  different things that are available [TS]

  you know as as i mentioned the end of [TS]

  last show [TS]

  this really is showing an apple is [TS]

  putting a lot of effort into the mac and [TS]

  the mac is not just some totally dead [TS]

  platform of them because they have a lot [TS]

  of stuff for the touch bar already like [TS]

  it is so much so many built-in apps [TS]

  already support the touch bar with some [TS]

  pretty useful stuff like there's there's [TS]

  like one doesn't like and I itunes [TS]

  widget that's kind of always showing [TS]

  whatever itunes doing anything it looks [TS]

  like a little equalizer and you can tap [TS]

  that and it converts the whole bar into [TS]

  basically an itunes scrubber with a [TS]

  couple of you know play/pause button and [TS]

  its icon and you can just leave that [TS]

  open the whole time the organs you can [TS]

  if you if you liked the script their [TS]

  songs or to see that your progress their [TS]

  song which is important to listen to [TS]

  such incredibly lazy song as I do it's [TS]

  actually kinda nice to see and it and [TS]

  and you can play with all the stuff like [TS]

  on the side that actually works pretty [TS]

  well i would say if you are curious [TS]

  about the touch bar and if you if you [TS]

  have the patience and skill required to [TS]

  you know use xcode to open some open [TS]

  source thing and provision to actually [TS]

  run and ipad it's kinda cool to see and [TS]

  but again like i'm not sure i would [TS]

  recommend it for full-time use unless [TS]

  you have a 12-point ipad brokers that [TS]

  that actually would be big enough i [TS]

  think i think that'd be about the right [TS]

  size but online points evidence it's [TS]

  pretty tiny but it's cool to see and it [TS]

  works surprisingly well it's responsive [TS]

  at the animations are fluid it's [TS]

  surprisingly good for this like two day [TS]

  a two-day-old hack basically it's pretty [TS]

  amazing to have this running on an iPad [TS]

  and I will say though having run this on [TS]

  this little thing above my keyboard on [TS]

  my desktop I think John's concerns last [TS]

  episode about the the ergonomics of like [TS]

  looking up and down so far between a [TS]

  desktop screen and the frontier keyboard [TS]

  and at that distance being way further [TS]

  than how you how you adjust your eyes on [TS]

  a laptop that is a real problem and it's [TS]

  it's a problem enough that it's i'm not [TS]

  entirely sure the touch bar on desktop [TS]

  is ever going to make a lot of sense [TS]

  just because that really is odd and and [TS]

  kind of uncomfortable i will say though [TS]

  that now that I've seen how well this [TS]

  works it is kind of interesting idea [TS]

  that what if Apple made an external [TS]

  touch bar that was just it by itself [TS]

  that didn't include [TS]

  keyboard necessarily mean maybe you can [TS]

  get a keyboard that have fun with it but [TS]

  maybe they also sell an extra one like I [TS]

  mean this is wishful thinking i don't [TS]

  think they actually would do that but [TS]

  this like once you use an iPad like this [TS]

  you see like this actually does work it [TS]

  is kinda useful and there could be [TS]

  something here if it was done well where [TS]

  did you put the external touch bar above [TS]

  your keyboard simply put mine but isn't [TS]

  it that's the same problem with all [TS]

  desktop thing of like the photo business [TS]

  change everything like what have you [TS]

  solved by having just a random external [TS]

  touch bar [TS]

  well you have quick access to you know [TS]

  it's it's kind of like having media keys [TS]

  on your keyboard but you know on [TS]

  steroids but you have to look at them i [TS]

  have to look at most of my keys most of [TS]

  the time too because I never remember [TS]

  what I don't you you probably had the [TS]

  glance may be too because you know [TS]

  you're going for somewhere on the middle [TS]

  like whatever that you're not really [TS]

  different and reading and just like you [TS]

  know glancing to see where it is but [TS]

  well but they're always in the same spot [TS]

  like you know like when if you something [TS]

  if you use a frequent item a lot always [TS]

  going to be right there i mean yeah as [TS]

  long as that happens from most like [TS]

  that's the tricky but how did you find [TS]

  that in terms of the context switching [TS]

  because if you have a particular [TS]

  especially for media keys and stuff like [TS]

  I'm used to having play/pause on my [TS]

  keyboard to the toilet you know to pause [TS]

  itunes at work but doesn't matter what [TS]

  happened my text editor i can't play [TS]

  pause and stop the music you know [TS]

  someone comes over to my desk or [TS]

  something but I've never actually in [TS]

  itunes [TS]

  well I wasn't using many third-party [TS]

  apps i was only using apple ones that [TS]

  have support for this but things like [TS]

  having like it when I mentioned the [TS]

  expanded iTunes U with the scrubber that [TS]

  stays up even if itunes is not frontmost [TS]

  which is kinda cool like that like [TS]

  that's just like it's one of the modes [TS]

  you know you like there's like all these [TS]

  buttons on the side that you can [TS]

  like.the control strip part you mean [TS]

  that so that's always there getting on [TS]

  the right you can toggle on certain [TS]

  modes that persist until you change them [TS]

  and that's just one of those modes like [TS]

  one of them is like the old function [TS]

  keys [TS]

  one of them is the itunes thing you know [TS]

  guys never use the real control pitcher [TS]

  nope i did and it was awesome [TS]

  congratulations once it was pluggable to [TS]

  you could buy third-party things that [TS]

  would add new tiles so the control [TS]

  script and you could you know configure [TS]

  how you wanted [TS]

  yeah it was really nice so it's come [TS]

  back button on my keyboard comes from [TS]

  the other side by default actually can't [TS]

  move the control so can you can make it [TS]

  comfortable [TS]

  try it's always on the right side I'm [TS]

  sure they'll be a plist entry for you [TS]

  John don't worry [TS]

  no well you can even put the doctor the [TS]

  edge anymore are you kidding that's why [TS]

  you never mess with those sorts of [TS]

  things kids is why you embrace the [TS]

  defaults right I'm I fast for the big [TS]

  scrubber that's one of my frustrations [TS]

  with quicktime player and one of the [TS]

  many reasons why i still have quicktime [TS]

  player 7 installed and hope it never [TS]

  breaks is frequently if I mean I should [TS]

  probably use a real audio editor like [TS]

  vision or something and sometimes i do [TS]

  but sometimes you just want to open up [TS]

  an audio file and scrub to a particular [TS]

  time stamp and it's a really long file [TS]

  because it's like a podcast or something [TS]

  and you just can't do it in like when [TS]

  the the audio window is small so i [TS]

  opened in QuickTime 7 and I stretch the [TS]

  audio window to really wide and yelling [TS]

  I have a scrubber that's the entire with [TS]

  my screen to give me the resolution I [TS]

  suppose that the quicktime player to the [TS]

  point is I'm i'm making a window bigger [TS]

  on a non visual medium the only reason [TS]

  I'm making the window bigger because i [TS]

  want more precision in the scrubber this [TS]

  brings us back to our old discussion [TS]

  about ideas of zooming and scrubbed and [TS]

  stuff but anyway if you have a screen [TS]

  that is the width of a qwerty keyboard [TS]

  that's pretty good scrubber length then [TS]

  you probably get decent resolution [TS]

  they're not as big as you get maybe I'm [TS]

  like a giant 5k display where you make [TS]

  the entire width of the thing but you [TS]

  know I mean a certain point you need to [TS]

  just open audio editor and zoom in on [TS]

  the way for my understand that but it's [TS]

  one of those hacks that you do so in [TS]

  summary Marco touch bar tentatively [TS]

  optimistic i mean you sound pretty [TS]

  pleased with it in principle I mean I'll [TS]

  again I didn't get to try a real one yet [TS]

  is your show time [TS]

  time will tell on this again it seems [TS]

  pretty cool [TS]

  I i think if I were buying again I think [TS]

  what I what I said last episode of you [TS]

  are lying again [TS]

  yeah if I were buying a laptop a mac [TS]

  laptop today and I intended to use it as [TS]

  my primary computer i would get the [TS]

  touch bar because it will I think it [TS]

  will probably end up being really great [TS]

  reviewer seem to have them now so we [TS]

  should here fairly soon from people who [TS]

  have actual hands-on experience for more [TS]

  than 10 minutes we should hear from them [TS]

  how these are in practice and then [TS]

  hopefully sometime soon people actually [TS]

  start being able to own these things I [TS]

  mean you know i don't think any [TS]

  additional [TS]

  in the initial orders have shipped yet [TS]

  they all had like that to three weeks [TS]

  ship date estimate at first so i don't [TS]

  think anybody actually has one yet [TS]

  except a couple of reviewers but I do [TS]

  look forward to hearing what they say [TS]

  having use the real one not some ipad [TS]

  approximation of it but the ipad [TS]

  approximation was pretty good [TS]

  that's also my mom really looking [TS]

  forward to trying this one day [TS]

  eventually maybe john told me about the [TS]

  next Mac Pro is going to be an [TS]

  all-in-one this is a topic that has come [TS]

  up lots of past shows and has been [TS]

  gaining steam as people here is known [TS]

  about the mac pro and Marco a big piece [TS]

  about the advantages of pro and all that [TS]

  and it's seeming to me you know probably [TS]

  many months out from any potential [TS]

  movement on this front that if Apple is [TS]

  not going to make another mac pro in the [TS]

  style that we expected to be as in a [TS]

  computer that doesn't have a monitor [TS]

  like they're you know they're not gonna [TS]

  make another trash can [TS]

  if they're reimagining the mac pro is [TS]

  something other than a trashcan most [TS]

  likely reimagining is what everyone [TS]

  keeps referring to as an imac pro which [TS]

  is the big 5k screen with a bunch of [TS]

  computer crap stuck to the back of it [TS]

  and the only difference would be that [TS]

  the computer craft stuff to the back of [TS]

  it is more pro ish answer those [TS]

  questions like can you fit a xeon in [TS]

  there can you actually put a decent [TS]

  graphics card in there there's a lot of [TS]

  room behind a 5k display obviously they [TS]

  wanted to be super skinny and they're [TS]

  kind of like that their own self-imposed [TS]

  constraints especially in the back of [TS]

  the display because they didn't even see [TS]

  that when you're looking at the front it [TS]

  doesn't need to be portable except for [TS]

  the guy who brings imac to panera bread [TS]

  to play World of Warcraft not [TS]

  yeah I so you know realistically you [TS]

  could totally do that now if Apple did [TS]

  it I assume they would make their life [TS]

  more difficult by still trying to make [TS]

  it thin and using all their skills honed [TS]

  by working on the super slim macbook [TS]

  pros and on their I devices to continue [TS]

  to make it skinny and use clever heat [TS]

  routing and venting and special fans and [TS]

  whatever to make it so it doesn't melt [TS]

  and so these days [TS]

  well as I'd well about the mac pro in [TS]

  bits and pieces [TS]

  I started thinking about a macpro that [TS]

  looks like an imac and thinking they can [TS]

  fit some pretty good stuff in there [TS]

  maybe they won't even go as the ensemble [TS]

  just try to use better desktop chips and [TS]

  have a higher ram ceiling and a bigger [TS]

  GPU maybe it really literally is named [TS]

  my mac pro or maybe just called mac pro [TS]

  in the new mac pro is an all-in-one you [TS]

  know like they say this is the [TS]

  bargaining stage here I might just about [TS]

  to say that get out of my head all my [TS]

  gosh make me a matte black mac pro shape [TS]

  thing with a decent GPU and aziani see [TS]

  ram with the high limit i buy it [TS]

  yeah i mean that's I would love that my [TS]

  self i would absolutely love that and [TS]

  another thing is like you know again I [TS]

  mean this totally is bargaining but at [TS]

  this point i'll take what we can get you [TS]

  know if they can make something that is [TS]

  mac pro like that happens to be an [TS]

  all-in-one that will cut out certain use [TS]

  cases that will make certain people who [TS]

  would have bought our mac pro not buy it [TS]

  and that will possibly hurt sales but if [TS]

  that's what Apple has to do to make it [TS]

  palatable to Tim Cook and jony ive then [TS]

  I guess we'll be no I I would take that [TS]

  over no mac pro you know so I don't know [TS]

  but I i think the question of what you [TS]

  could put into that depends entirely on [TS]

  the cooling setup you know if you look [TS]

  at the way the two mac pro is setup [TS]

  which by the way like and I didn't [TS]

  mention this too much in the post i but [TS]

  the two Mac Pro has a serious problem [TS]

  that the GPUs die frequently and this is [TS]

  this has never really been much in the [TS]

  public eye because not a lot of people [TS]

  on these machines are also speaking but [TS]

  that there's a massive like GPU death [TS]

  flaw in the tube mac pro I brought this [TS]

  up about about your article you didn't [TS]

  add it to your article to do well i [TS]

  hears things ok [TS]

  a lot of people have first asking a [TS]

  question of like why do I presume the [TS]

  mac pro is dead and i'll tell you right [TS]

  now we've heard tips from so many [TS]

  different sources and they all conflict [TS]

  with each other every single every [TS]

  single tip we've heard it's different [TS]

  from a different referred some of them [TS]

  are in direct contradiction [TS]

  I've heard that the mac pro is already [TS]

  dead I've heard that the mac pro is [TS]

  on hold I've heard the mac pro is not [TS]

  dead but going to take a different form [TS]

  that the mac pro is very much alive and [TS]

  the mac pro is coming between last month [TS]

  and next summer but I think all those I [TS]

  think all those things the reason I'm [TS]

  not big on the imac programmers because [TS]

  i think it fits all of them because the [TS]

  people saying it's dead [TS]

  what they really mean is the trashcan [TS]

  instead check people say it's coming but [TS]

  in a new form that's that's the imac [TS]

  proform factor the dates nobody knows [TS]

  those so forget about it [TS]

  well what I haven't heard of anything [TS]

  like this guy like me or not because [TS]

  that's really i think that is really [TS]

  about the death of the net profits if [TS]

  it's not the Xenon's it's just a desktop [TS]

  trips with a better see you then it [TS]

  literally is just a better iMac which [TS]

  you know hey we'll take what we can get [TS]

  but but I getting back to cooling like [TS]

  one of the things you listed on your [TS]

  article we have mac pro is so it doesn't [TS]

  you know how like a laptop when you push [TS]

  it hard and the imac doesn't how like a [TS]

  laptop that kind of moans like an imac [TS]

  like it's not what I was quieted the mac [TS]

  pro and i have to say thats that's not a [TS]

  i keep using like luxurious or elegant [TS]

  or whatever but like it there if you [TS]

  have hardware empathy empathy for the [TS]

  machine which i think i've talked about [TS]

  on the past podcast it but and you try [TS]

  to do something that stress is your [TS]

  computer and it is just that just the [TS]

  fans are just going to hear it worrying [TS]

  there's a certain baseline level of [TS]

  anxiety that I feel about that [TS]

  I mean it's kind of annoying sound first [TS]

  of all and second of all you're like [TS]

  this is everything okay am I you know is [TS]

  it good to do this what what if your [TS]

  laptop sounded like that you know eight [TS]

  hours a day while you worked like it [TS]

  can't be good for the thing to be yeah [TS]

  and and it is an annoying sound it feels [TS]

  better to get a big honking machine that [TS]

  you can stress to its limits and it you [TS]

  know and it doesn't make a big racket [TS]

  and so the imac does not fulfill that [TS]

  criteria and and the reason I brought up [TS]

  to to mark about his articles like that [TS]

  is an advantage of the mac pro the the [TS]

  idealized mac pro of course the 2008 [TS]

  pack program sitting next to which is [TS]

  humongous and weighs 50 pounds but the [TS]

  trashcan mac pro fulfills the quietness [TS]

  ideal but not so much the not melting [TS]

  ideal which is an important part of them [TS]

  the power and elegance formula for the [TS]

  mac pro is you can be quiet and have [TS]

  good cooling but that also means the [TS]

  parts that are inside you can't die from [TS]

  excessive heat and the current trashcan [TS]

  want current the new 2013 trashcan has [TS]

  had a history of perhaps not doing so [TS]

  well on removing the heat but it's [TS]

  pretty quiet [TS]

  yeah but anyway I wrote this article [TS]

  with the presumption that the mac pro is [TS]

  either dead or quote on hold whatever [TS]

  that means and the point of this article [TS]

  is not to keep people's hopes up that [TS]

  it's not dead yet the points article is [TS]

  to help convince the people at Apple [TS]

  that if this thing is truly either dead [TS]

  or postponed or on hold or whatever to [TS]

  try to convince them that I don't think [TS]

  that's the right move and and basically [TS]

  please don't do that and it has gotten a [TS]

  little large response very large [TS]

  response and and so I think I think I've [TS]

  hit on something here and and when you [TS]

  when you see the article in that way [TS]

  that's why at the beginning I assume [TS]

  that it's gone and I didn't bring up [TS]

  like you know here's why the current [TS]

  trash can overheat gpus because you know [TS]

  that that is a real problem but that was [TS]

  it didn't really need to be in there i [TS]

  did mention here's why the current [TS]

  trashcan sales might not be very good [TS]

  and why you shouldn't use that I think [TS]

  the overheating is one of them like that [TS]

  sigh I think like highlighting you know [TS]

  it's not that we interviewed bring this [TS]

  up is not that we did nobody like the [TS]

  mac pro is that you changed it so much [TS]

  in the ways that you change it or maybe [TS]

  not palatable so that all the people who [TS]

  buy mac pros and it's not as if you [TS]

  while the mac pro's not for you it's [TS]

  like what's gonna be for somebody and [TS]

  apparently the trashcan macro was not [TS]

  for enough people so i'm one of the [TS]

  things is reliability but you know he's [TS]

  one of the things you expect his [TS]

  quietness able to handle high load and [TS]

  reliable that's why you got the ECC ram [TS]

  that's why you have the you know [TS]

  workstation class components or do you [TS]

  want to call and you know that is not [TS]

  super duper overclock that is supposed [TS]

  to be a reliable piece of hardware and [TS]

  the trash can never quite fulfilled that [TS]

  so it's yet another reason to add to the [TS]

  pile of why the trashcan might not have [TS]

  been successful and that is not [TS]

  oh you know this isn't there's no market [TS]

  for promac anymore because I think there [TS]

  still is [TS]

  it's small it's a small as it's ever [TS]

  been but you have to actually serve that [TS]

  market if you want to sell into it [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  but anyway so in summary my article was [TS]

  basically a letter to apple presuming [TS]

  that they've killed the mac pro trying [TS]

  to trying to shoot down reasons that [TS]

  they might be using internally why they [TS]

  should make this computer anymore and it [TS]

  just so happened to be also wrapped up [TS]

  in some other things the pros my life [TS]

  and everything else because that's how I [TS]

  feel and and my love for mac OS and not [TS]

  wanting to leave mac OS x like what am I [TS]

  gonna do go use windows no windows is [TS]

  horrible sorry all the people who [TS]

  respond to me saying that stupid thing [TS]

  to say [TS]

  no no it's true it's true Casey is an [TS]

  official windows are well i was i was in [TS]

  that I wasn't and more recently than me [TS]

  yeah oh yeah because i installed Windows [TS]

  10 just two weeks ago or something like [TS]

  that what happened are you okay [TS]

  don't even get me started i and i've [TS]

  installed Windows 10 and I was genuinely [TS]

  liked it [TS]

  hand on heart I'm not trying to be funny [TS]

  I was look kind of looking forward to it [TS]

  in a way because everyone every time [TS]

  I've ever seen anyone talk about Windows [TS]

  10 I'd always heard you know it's really [TS]

  good now it's good it's good you know [TS]

  it's not bad at all and i installed it [TS]

  and it is just as bad as everything is [TS]

  always been and I think we talked about [TS]

  this already on the last show so I won't [TS]

  belabor the labor it anymore but it's [TS]

  terrible don't believe otherwise it's [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  anyway moving on so one of you put this [TS]

  in the show notes is a genuinely great [TS]

  question uh what external monitors or [TS]

  Apple employees using with laptops now [TS]

  for now they're probably using [TS]

  Thunderbolt express but this this [TS]

  question or idea was brought in many [TS]

  different forms a surprising number of a [TS]

  parent supposedly you know presumably [TS]

  completely independent people came up [TS]

  with this one scenario [TS]

  hey Apple to the new spaceship campus [TS]

  with a cool-looking office is shaped [TS]

  like a ring and all this you know open [TS]

  seating or whatever it is they were [TS]

  trying to say like what would it be like [TS]

  to walk into this spaceship campus and [TS]

  see the Apple engineers diligently [TS]

  working as if you're actually able to [TS]

  see where they work because you probably [TS]

  can't get bad country but anyway this is [TS]

  these are people writing like and [TS]

  presumably those people would have [TS]

  laptops as a apple doesn't make desktops [TS]

  anymore and who would use an imac and [TS]

  whatever whatever but you know people [TS]

  with laptops as we mentioned even apple [TS]

  laptops when they're sitting at a desk [TS]

  might like to have a bigger screen [TS]

  do stuff on right because one of the [TS]

  advantages of sitting down or standing [TS]

  up standing desk or whatever you can [TS]

  have a much bigger screen or multiple [TS]

  screens or whatever and for all these [TS]

  people asking this question they [TS]

  couldn't envision a scenario where [TS]

  Apple's headquarters was filled with [TS]

  people using apple laptops connected to [TS]

  non-apple monitors is it because not [TS]

  Apple monitors are ugly [TS]

  is it because they wouldn't match is it [TS]

  because it wouldn't fit their idea of [TS]

  these architects sketches of this [TS]

  beautiful pristine a place where [TS]

  everything is all apple and perfect in [TS]

  the tables are made from one giant [TS]

  continuous piece of wood painstakingly [TS]

  manufactured in Germany or whatever [TS]

  that's probably part of it but the [TS]

  practical consideration is you know I [TS]

  was brought before apples monitors for a [TS]

  while have made to connect two laptops [TS]

  if they don't make any monitors which [TS]

  seems like they're not anymore and if [TS]

  the mac pro disappears and becomes an [TS]

  all-in-one what are all the laptops and [TS]

  connect to and I guess the other [TS]

  connected question to this is the [TS]

  question of target display mode for imax [TS]

  which used to be a thing and then wasn't [TS]

  but now with the advent of Thunderbolt [TS]

  three we'll talk about in a little bit [TS]

  in theory you can buy an imac and just [TS]

  use it as a monitor when you sit down [TS]

  and get your laptop to which were being [TS]

  make the world's most expensive monitor [TS]

  not really actually the Apple 30 inches [TS]

  probably still more money but it would [TS]

  be a very expensive monitor at total [TS]

  waste of the internals but technically [TS]

  it is possible and that would be an out [TS]

  to let apples campus photos continue to [TS]

  be completely appellee from top to [TS]

  bottom realistically speaking as for the [TS]

  campus pictures you're not going to see [TS]

  any except for reception of those are [TS]

  going to be imax and they're gonna be [TS]

  all in one they're gonna have a big [TS]

  apple logo on them and it'll be fine [TS]

  I i think i speak for all of us and [TS]

  saying we have some friends at apple and [TS]

  one of my friends at apple i know for a [TS]

  fact is rolling the dell 5k display as I [TS]

  believe a child to his 5k imac at the [TS]

  office I blg or the know the dell the [TS]

  double cable one correct [TS]

  I maybe this is his home machine I I so [TS]

  i might be lying unintentionally but i [TS]

  am almost positive that this is his work [TS]

  machine it's a 5k imac connected to this [TS]

  double-double cable to this dell 5k [TS]

  display too and so in the future I would [TS]

  expect it would be the LG 5k display and [TS]

  you're never going to see that because [TS]

  he can take you to his office anyway [TS]

  right exactly i have i have no idea what [TS]

  an apple developer office even looks [TS]

  like i don't have ever seen a single [TS]

  picture of one of anybody's ever usually [TS]

  look at what they look like in the [TS]

  nineties they were awesome people that [TS]

  died eight the giant 84 tvs with the CRT [TS]

  monitor with two big speakers on the [TS]

  bottom and because they would you know [TS]

  their hoard the fanciest Mac hardware [TS]

  like I think it was it was more of a big [TS]

  deal back when Max were just so much [TS]

  more expensive and again if you look at [TS]

  the original purchase price of the mac [TS]

  to FX and converted to twenty sixteen [TS]

  dollars you will be very surprised I'm [TS]

  so but if you worked at Apple you access [TS]

  that stuff so I remember a lot of like [TS]

  cubicle farm pictures from the nineties [TS]

  that office is not capable so anyway [TS]

  very sort of you know if you are [TS]

  listening to this and you are a nineties [TS]

  era apple employee and have photos of [TS]

  your cool setup senior officers send [TS]

  them a couple of them send us a couple [TS]

  of them because i love seeing those and [TS]

  i'm sure they're not quite what they [TS]

  look like today I have not actually seen [TS]

  the inside of an actual human working [TS]

  person's office an apple in recent years [TS]

  so I don't know what they're like but I [TS]

  do know that Apple right now has many [TS]

  different buildings that vary widely in [TS]

  how nice they are how modern they are [TS]

  when they were built what the [TS]

  accommodations are like and the [TS]

  spaceship will be another iteration that [TS]

  I think of a spaceship they have a bunch [TS]

  of mock-ups you can see pictures of what [TS]

  they expect though the work areas to be [TS]

  like in the office to be like but there [TS]

  is no like what does an apple officers [TS]

  like because apples campus is so much [TS]

  bigger than the giant one infinite loop [TS]

  building it's so many other buildings [TS]

  scattered all over the place and they [TS]

  are very different from each other [TS]

  enough so tell us [TS]

  speaking of displays and cabling tell us [TS]

  about displayport some writing with a [TS]

  bunch of facts about displayport and [TS]

  we've talked about all these at bits and [TS]

  pieces before we talk about how we [TS]

  didn't think there was going to be an [TS]

  external 5k display for a long time [TS]

  because you couldn't run it over [TS]

  displayport that the current standard [TS]

  we're on displayport 1.2 and didn't have [TS]

  it can only go up to 4k [TS]

  I'm like might be on display port 143 [TS]

  comes but that's not gonna be out for a [TS]

  long time so what are they going to do [TS]

  we found out the answer to that was that [TS]

  they're gonna do this you know what they [TS]

  do with the LG Display it's one cable [TS]

  it's not two cables and they just stream [TS]

  multiple displayport 1.2 streams over it [TS]

  but this information we got sent as a [TS]

  summary brought home another reality [TS]

  which is even one display part 13 comes [TS]

  it still is not your Savior not that we [TS]

  need to save your network is we have a [TS]

  solution but it is not your Savior for [TS]

  connecting your 5k display because [TS]

  display part 1.3 only does 5k at 60 [TS]

  frames per second at eight bits per [TS]

  component whereas displayport 1.2 goes [TS]

  up to 4k at 60 frames per second at ten [TS]

  bits per component which is important if [TS]

  you're doing fancy photo and video work [TS]

  and honesty like color banding all the [TS]

  crap and also the Alpine Ridge [TS]

  Thunderbolt chipset can't receive that [TS]

  display part 1 point 3 input anyway so [TS]

  it's kind of a moot point [TS]

  so we're going to be in the world of to [TS]

  displayport 1.2 streams being told over [TS]

  firewire for a while because that's the [TS]

  only way you can get five days [TS]

  experience for second 10 bits per [TS]

  component so may be displayed for 1.4 [TS]

  will do it in a single stream I don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  and as for Thunderbolt Thunderbolt [TS]

  angles Thunderbolt one could send to [TS]

  displayport 1.1 streams Thunderbolt [TS]

  three can send to displayport 1.2 trips [TS]

  obviously we know it can do that because [TS]

  it doesn't the LG display and when [TS]

  Thunderbolt three does that it still [TS]

  leaves 10 gigabits per second band was [TS]

  left over for other stuff so that is the [TS]

  magic that makes the laptops being [TS]

  connected to LG Display working that is [TS]

  like if you take that back in time and [TS]

  show that to someone like 15 years ago [TS]

  as I you're going to output how much [TS]

  video over this skinny little thing at [TS]

  home we had we were just connecting like [TS]

  the ADC connector dvir these big honking [TS]

  multi-pin parallel things with big thick [TS]

  cables at resolutions that are you know [TS]

  I a tiny fraction of the current one and [TS]

  now we're able to do this you know it is [TS]

  which is still kind of a hack taking [TS]

  those to display for all my two streams [TS]

  and streaming them over this one cable [TS]

  because that the standards don't have [TS]

  enough to fill the whole screen then [TS]

  putting them back together with the [TS]

  display control and everything that is a [TS]

  that's very impressive and we mentioned [TS]

  multi screaming sometimes abbreviated [TS]

  MST that actually refers to the part of [TS]

  the display point 1.2 spec that lets you [TS]

  tunnel to displayport 1.1 streams over [TS]

  it and i keep saying that's what I'm [TS]

  going to 1.1 1.3 but the abbreviation [TS]

  that's used frequently hbr which [TS]

  hopefully stands for high bitrate and [TS]

  displayport 1.2 hbr displayport 1.2 is [TS]

  hbr to and displayport 1.3 her3 I don't [TS]

  know that has any clarification but [TS]

  that's how its referred to it and this [TS]

  email on some of the literature clears [TS]

  mom [TS]

  yeah anyway good thing we don't have to [TS]

  wait for this point 1.3 and it's really [TS]

  cool what Apple did to get the extra 5k [TS]

  display working just in time for them to [TS]

  not introduce a new mac pro and finally [TS]

  some potentially ready to this we got an [TS]

  anonymous as yet unconfirmed tip that [TS]

  know the LG Display does not have a GPU [TS]

  in it which makes sense in light of this [TS]

  play port stuff because why wouldn't [TS]

  need to GPU if they can output to [TS]

  displayport 1.2 streams over the single [TS]

  cable told you to display goodness [TS]

  receive them and make one image out of [TS]

  them and Bob's your uncle as they say [TS]

  okay and then any as a final note and [TS]

  this is clearly for John tell me about [TS]

  the macbook pro as the naked robotic or [TS]

  if you please [TS]

  this is another topic that my listeners [TS]

  have brought up with the negative erotic [TS]

  or for brief review is the idea for the [TS]

  iDevices specifically the iphone that [TS]

  Apple wants to make the smaller skinnies [TS]

  thing possible even if it doesn't [TS]

  function as a complete phone and allow [TS]

  people to augment it either right with [TS]

  cases or battery cases or colors or [TS]

  whatever that they don't sell you the [TS]

  entire phone i tell you the Naked [TS]

  robotic core and then you dress it up to [TS]

  be the phone you really want to be [TS]

  because of Apple made those choices and [TS]

  put a rubberized rugged case on the [TS]

  thing for you are mated thicker and [TS]

  bigger and ruggedized the people who [TS]

  wanted a skinny little silver thing [TS]

  couldn't have it and the people who [TS]

  wanted a different color coordinate some [TS]

  sources like here you go here's the [TS]

  negative robotic or add to it whatever [TS]

  you want that's strategy has been [TS]

  discussed a long time as a you know [TS]

  trying to get apples head about why they [TS]

  make a difference dinner and slippery [TS]

  and also stuff and so probably brought [TS]

  it up for the macbook pro [TS]

  is the macbook pro and a robotic or and [TS]

  my initial instinct was that it was no [TS]

  use you don't put a case on your thing [TS]

  about battery case for macbook pro would [TS]

  be awesome but you don't like to do [TS]

  external batteries for but it's not it's [TS]

  not like you put a flowery case on it so [TS]

  when you accidentally drop it doesn't [TS]

  get being like it's not it's a different [TS]

  size class of item than a phone doesn't [TS]

  seem like they're selling you the [TS]

  skinniest thing possible allowing you to [TS]

  bulk it up by adding stuff to it [TS]

  although I suppose you could do that and [TS]

  i'm sure someone out there make the case [TS]

  for the macbook pro but I thought about [TS]

  a little more one aspect of it does seem [TS]

  kind of make a robotic Corey and gets [TS]

  into the idea of the Thunderbolt three [TS]

  ports that uh that again as the discuss [TS]

  last show i'm in favor of going to a [TS]

  bunch of uniform very small [TS]

  multi-purpose sports that can do [TS]

  everything [TS]

  they're cool they're multi-purpose they [TS]

  can do a lot of things but one of the [TS]

  aspects of Thunderbolt ports there that [TS]

  makes them so multi-purpose is there [TS]

  like an external ization of pci or pci [TS]

  express that necessitates the external [TS]

  ization of certain components for [TS]

  example like this one little tiny plug i [TS]

  can plug in here and i can do video out [TS]

  to DVI to VGA to me displayport to [TS]

  Thunderbolt Display hdmi look at all [TS]

  these different options i don't have to [TS]

  put 17 different video course on the [TS]

  side of my mac i can just have this one [TS]

  little skinny port but the price for [TS]

  doing that is that you have externalize [TS]

  doll the circuitry required to make hdmi [TS]

  output work to make DVI of work because [TS]

  the desert disgusting seen in the past [TS]

  lots of these adapters have chips in [TS]

  them and those chips aren't just like [TS]

  optional will go away you know once once [TS]

  the world to get six like it's because [TS]

  the thing that's coming out of that the [TS]

  that part of what you do that is not [TS]

  video if only my projector could [TS]

  understand it it is an external ization [TS]

  of the pci bus so there needs to be some [TS]

  chips to deal with that and not [TS]

  reference center for all things like USB [TS]

  you could connect right to it so when we [TS]

  all covered us bc on all devices [TS]

  everywhere we don't have that problem [TS]

  but certain devices still have some part [TS]

  that could have been inside the computer [TS]

  if there was a big honkin port move to [TS]

  the outside of the computer now those [TS]

  components are small and often they fit [TS]

  in a little adapter that you wouldn't [TS]

  even see and in theory they could also [TS]

  be moving to the [TS]

  Isis eventually but for a while I think [TS]

  one of the prices of this beautiful [TS]

  uniform for future not just the fact [TS]

  that we have dongles but that Apple is [TS]

  pushing some logic some tact of logic [TS]

  outside of their computer case you used [TS]

  to be in the inside and now they're [TS]

  giving you the Naked even less robotic [TS]

  or because some of the robotic missus [TS]

  has been moved outside the case so i've [TS]

  been i've been thinking about that and [TS]

  thinking is there a future where you [TS]

  plop down your super skinny mac laptop [TS]

  and the only thing you ever upload into [TS]

  it is super skinny beautiful slender [TS]

  cables none of which have a big wide [TS]

  dongle brick that contains the [TS]

  impossibly small active chip to do some [TS]

  sort of translation and one thing that I [TS]

  think is necessary regression of this [TS]

  move though of the move to externalize [TS]

  in all these different little things and [TS]

  and and you know pouring all of the [TS]

  complexity and capability of adapting to [TS]

  different ports and protocols and [TS]

  different things you know onto external [TS]

  devices one of the downsides of this is [TS]

  that the ones that you put in the [TS]

  computer you can control the quality of [TS]

  and oftentimes they came for free with [TS]

  the intel chipset or whatever else that [TS]

  you know and you could make pretty good [TS]

  things like USB controllers and hdmi [TS]

  outputs and everything else in the [TS]

  current way of doing things of [TS]

  externalizing to all these dongles and [TS]

  adapters and stuff [TS]

  you are basically forcing people to buy [TS]

  something from someone who knows who and [TS]

  who knows who's making the thing on the [TS]

  inside to get the capability used to get [TS]

  with like night reliable built-in stuff [TS]

  and some of the many of the things that [TS]

  you are adding onto are these like you [TS]

  know cheap no-name brands from amazon or [TS]

  ebay or whatever and like I I feel like [TS]

  it's it's going to be a similar problem [TS]

  as like finding a good USB hub which is [TS]

  very difficult they good USB hubs do [TS]

  exist but you it there so hard to find [TS]

  that reliably that they basically don't [TS]

  exist and so like USB devices in [TS]

  practice once you need more of them than [TS]

  what your computer has ports for they [TS]

  just become less reliable [TS]

  because your hub is probably less [TS]

  reliable it's very hard to find what [TS]

  isn't or very hard to diagnose the [TS]

  problem and what you require fairly [TS]

  pricey Apple dongles and we will get to [TS]

  this but fairly pricey Apple dongles to [TS]

  to do basic things everyone needs like [TS]

  you know you're not everyone basic [TS]

  things a lot of people need like usba [TS]

  adapters or hdmi anything like that [TS]

  because the first party ones are so [TS]

  expensive many people in reality are [TS]

  going to go by third party ones for [TS]

  amazon or whatever and they're going to [TS]

  be less reliable they're going to be [TS]

  less control over there going to be less [TS]

  predictable you know in in many cases [TS]

  not all but many cases and I feel like [TS]

  that's kind of a step backwards in a lot [TS]

  of ways like we used to have these nice [TS]

  reliable internal ports for all these [TS]

  things and while it's great to have the [TS]

  versatility of these kind of everything [TS]

  ports now and well it's great to save [TS]

  the the thickness of them if you want to [TS]

  thinner laptop it is definitely a step [TS]

  backwards to have to rely on some like [TS]

  50 cent chip inside of a God knows who [TS]

  made it cable for something that you [TS]

  find pretty important to to getting you [TS]

  worked out well [TS]

  oh ok that's certainly possible but I [TS]

  don't know if the sky is really falling [TS]

  at Chicken Little I mean he is it was [TS]

  well we don't know what the quality of [TS]

  these things is going to be and I think [TS]

  that in general late USB hub is a good [TS]

  counter argument that that I don't have [TS]

  a good answer for but in general [TS]

  well the USB is built-in though that's [TS]

  it that's the USB will be inside the [TS]

  thing it's when you externalize pci [TS]

  express and say this adapter works by [TS]

  pretending it's like a device on the pci [TS]

  bus and it has a chip for translating [TS]

  the video you know pulling the video off [TS]

  and it was that one that like well the [TS]

  ipad want like an h.264 encoder sitting [TS]

  in their tiny little iOS device and like [TS]

  that kind of stuff goes on that's where [TS]

  you're moving stuff outside u.s. be [TS]

  should be just a matter of everyone [TS]

  please update your connectors not be [TS]

  those big old things like I see I see a [TS]

  light at the end of the tunnel for the [TS]

  USB angle but I see the less light for [TS]

  things like display that goes even [TS]

  something as people mention like [TS]

  ethernet which is very common and [TS]

  standard and you expect to just work but [TS]

  if there has to be a chip in your [TS]

  Ethernet adapter then like Marco said [TS]

  you are kind of at the mercy of [TS]

  the the quality that after the bright [TS]

  side is it breaks [TS]

  unlike the little chip break on your [TS]

  motherboard you just find the adapter so [TS]

  there's up up and down sides [TS]

  yeah and I'm i don't think that we [TS]

  should go and assume that the quality is [TS]

  going to be subpar right out of the gate [TS]

  and certainly there will be one or two [TS]

  above any kind of device one or two [TS]

  ethernet adapters wanted to SD card [TS]

  readers etcetera that will be crappy but [TS]

  I I don't think it's a bit premature to [TS]

  just assume that anything outside of the [TS]

  case is going to be crap and even if [TS]

  there's a glut of things that are crappy [TS]

  I mean that's in principle why amazon [TS]

  has reviews and why you can ask your [TS]

  friends hate does this one work for you [TS]

  and hopefully Applewood only carry [TS]

  things that they feel are of a decent [TS]

  quality even if it doesn't have the [TS]

  apple logo on it it's certainly possible [TS]

  that this stuff will be crap but I think [TS]

  it's way too soon to get worked up about [TS]

  Apple will make stuff anyway like if you [TS]

  just want the Apple quality ones Apple [TS]

  make them and sell them to you for your [TS]

  way too much money but there's an [TS]

  interesting side effect to that too if [TS]

  you noticed the date outsource a lot of [TS]

  the current ones to belkin like they [TS]

  have outsourced the ethernet belkin i [TS]

  think one learning tool yet the do [TS]

  lightning that horrible split her that [TS]

  lets you charge listen to your lighting [TS]

  headphones [TS]

  it's the worst thing ever you feel like [TS]

  40 bucks for this thing this giant that [TS]

  has to lighting ports out one lightning [TS]

  port in so that you plug into your [TS]

  iphone you have this giant dongle and [TS]

  you also have to have the headphone [TS]

  dunkel to plug that into the second pic [TS]

  why couldn't why couldn't they just have [TS]

  it be lightning out and headphone out [TS]

  why did that one less another angle and [TS]

  is like I wouldn't mind the chips and [TS]

  the adapters in the external agent [TS]

  external ization of all this of active [TS]

  logic less if it was smaller that [TS]

  adapter in particular is comically large [TS]

  we haven't just like understand you have [TS]

  active logic [TS]

  ideally it would be like the little you [TS]

  know the real lighting the headphone [TS]

  adapter was like I didn't even know [TS]

  there was a chip in there it's so darn [TS]

  small like that's how they should all be [TS]

  when it's a giant white brick then it is [TS]

  you know that's it makes me feel bad [TS]

  about external [TS]

  again I assume that stuff will go down [TS]

  over time and they'll shrink and they'll [TS]

  get better and so on and so forth so [TS]

  there is some light at the end of the [TS]

  tunnel there but i still do think about [TS]

  the pushing of the chips outside of the [TS]

  laptop case especially since on a 15 [TS]

  inch laptop that's a pretty big case so [TS]

  at some point if we can't get the world [TS]

  to get on board with putting the ships [TS]

  and their devices and we still have to [TS]

  have an adapter with a dongle it would [TS]

  be nice to maybe move one or two of the [TS]

  most often used ones to the side of that [TS]

  thing or if you're not gonna do that put [TS]

  like three more of those ports on the [TS]

  side because there's so much room on the [TS]

  15-inch macbook pro things looking kinda [TS]

  lonely there with just those two tiny [TS]

  little openings response to this week by [TS]

  eero visit 0 comments eerr dot-com and [TS]

  get overnight shipping at checkout for [TS]

  free by using code ATP 0 is basically [TS]

  the Wi-Fi router of the future not the [TS]

  past [TS]

  our homes are coming online of speakers [TS]

  thermostats we have light bulbs front [TS]

  door lock security cameras all this [TS]

  stuff that all has Wi-Fi Wi-Fi is [TS]

  probably the technology we depend on the [TS]

  most the core of utility of the 21st [TS]

  century home now [TS]

  Wi-Fi is broken because it doesn't [TS]

  really reach your whole house most time [TS]

  with your whole apartment most of the [TS]

  time because there's walls there's dead [TS]

  zones that you know you have one room [TS]

  it's too far away from it or whatever [TS]

  else 0 is designed to change all this [TS]

  they make a single device the small [TS]

  elegant box and you can buy any number [TS]

  of these to cover your house you know [TS]

  you can buy just one but they recommend [TS]

  that you buy two or three and here's how [TS]

  this works [TS]

  you plug one into your internet [TS]

  connection you plug the other one or two [TS]

  or however many you have just into the [TS]

  wall somewhere further away from it and [TS]

  they all talk to each other on a private [TS]

  mesh network which makes them much [TS]

  better than typical range extenders and [TS]

  then they create one giant Wi-Fi network [TS]

  that just blankets your entire place in [TS]

  Wi-Fi and setting this up could not be [TS]

  easier normally you know there have been [TS]

  solutions that are kind of like this for [TS]

  awhile but they've been a pain to set up [TS]

  or they would really depend on things [TS]

  like range sensors which are very very [TS]

  slow here get around this [TS]

  it is not like range extenders because [TS]

  it has that back-end network that talks [TS]

  to it they talk to each other off of the [TS]

  regular network so it doesn't clog it up [TS]

  and their app makes set up such a breeze [TS]

  it is so ridiculously easy to set up [TS]

  multiple access points with 0 and then [TS]

  when you have multiple broadcast points [TS]

  your home gets covered so much more [TS]

  effectively than it does you just have [TS]

  one rider no matter how many crazy [TS]

  antennas that router has on it [TS]

  multiple points of Wi-Fi cover your [TS]

  house way better and your that makes so [TS]

  much other stuff easier they have things [TS]

  like parental controls they can update [TS]

  their app and add new features all the [TS]

  time they do this all the time that [TS]

  they've been 12 updates so far since [TS]

  launch with many more to come check it [TS]

  out today go to erode comments eerr [TS]

  dot-com and you can check out you can [TS]

  sit overnight shipping and enter code [TS]

  ATP to make it free [TS]

  so once again go to ero com de ro calm [TS]

  for an amazing Wi-Fi setup and use code [TS]

  ATP to make overnight shipping free [TS]

  thanks a lot to ero for sponsoring our [TS]

  show since last show [TS]

  Apple has made a very curious move they [TS]

  have cut the prices on us bc peripherals [TS]

  and we'll put a link in the show notes [TS]

  to a post on I more from front of the [TS]

  show Rene Ritchie that breaks down kind [TS]

  of the the price changes that have [TS]

  happened and is so as a couple of [TS]

  examples the USBC to traditional USBC [TS]

  went from nineteen dollars to nine [TS]

  dollars the USBC the lightning cable [TS]

  went from $25 to $19 etc etc but what's [TS]

  particularly interesting about this is [TS]

  that the LG display's the 4k and 5k [TS]

  displays are also getting discounted I [TS]

  don't recall how much the 5k was before [TS]

  did was like 13 it was 1300 you and now [TS]

  it's 974 dollars still not available for [TS]

  order quite yet but it's going to be an [TS]

  understudy for dollars until the end of [TS]

  the year and that's that's how long all [TS]

  of these are all these discounts will be [TS]

  going on that's a really interesting [TS]

  move and you know there's lately I feel [TS]

  like there's a pessimistic an optimistic [TS]

  take on this the optimistic take is [TS]

  Apple's listening and they're responding [TS]

  and they're trying to make [TS]

  all of our grumbling go well maybe not [TS]

  go away but make it easier on us for [TS]

  those of us who are professionals or [TS]

  think we're professionals and need all [TS]

  bunch of dongles and so on the plus side [TS]

  apples listening it and they're trying [TS]

  they're trying to react [TS]

  that's one way of looking at it and I'm [TS]

  assuming that you guys will have [TS]

  alternative ways of looking at it [TS]

  well it's I think it's a damage control [TS]

  to some degree I think it's pretty clear [TS]

  that that Apple you know release these [TS]

  new macbook pros i think the the [TS]

  reaction to the new macbook pros has [TS]

  been less positive that Apple expected i [TS]

  think it's pretty safe to say and you [TS]

  can read between the lines on that and i [TS]

  think phil even came just about to [TS]

  saying that in some interview somewhere [TS]

  basically the reaction has been you know [TS]

  not as positive they wanted and so [TS]

  they're trying to do damage control and [TS]

  that's what you know they begin their [TS]

  statements basically by saying how well [TS]

  this macbook pro is selling that's great [TS]

  and all these qualifiers like it's the [TS]

  best-selling pro laptop that we've ever [TS]

  had on our website and you know all [TS]

  these qualifiers everything but [TS]

  obviously it's all it's not going to be [TS]

  a flop or anything but they're gonna [TS]

  want to criticism for it so this is [TS]

  obvious damage control and I think you [TS]

  know I think groupers tip their gruesome [TS]

  note about I think I Twitter somewhere [TS]

  was that you know he thinks maybe they [TS]

  don't want it to appear like a [TS]

  money-grab like the reason they moved to [TS]

  us bc they don't want to appear like it [TS]

  was purely for profit reasons to sell a [TS]

  bunch of adapters and stuff and I [TS]

  believe that I i think you know I'm sure [TS]

  Apple is not sorry that they're gonna [TS]

  make a lot more money from him after [TS]

  stuff than before I think that's a happy [TS]

  side effect [TS]

  I don't think that was the primary [TS]

  reason why they did it in the primary [TS]

  reason I did it was to make the laptop [TS]

  thinner lighter and simpler save on [TS]

  component costs in terms of the laptop [TS]

  make it easier to engineer but having to [TS]

  report on the outside easier service [TS]

  fewer things that will die or breaker or [TS]

  have things like a number or you know [TS]

  otherwise need warranty service and then [TS]

  finally of course because they believe [TS]

  in the future whatever I believe those [TS]

  are all reasons why they made only USBC [TS]

  plus a couple headphone jacks why they [TS]

  made those things all the standard ports [TS]

  and nothing else however you [TS]

  could very easily look at this and you [TS]

  could say well you know they did this [TS]

  just to make money on adapters so i [TS]

  think that was that was probably one of [TS]

  the things they were trying to combat [TS]

  with this i think they were also just [TS]

  trying to apologize maybe the power [TS]

  users in in a very small and relatively [TS]

  inexpensive inexpensive way that doesn't [TS]

  mean any fault about anything in public [TS]

  it's basically it it's a PR feel good [TS]

  move similar to the free bumper case for [TS]

  the iphone 4 with antennagate like it's [TS]

  a it's a PR like make you feel better [TS]

  and make make it look like we're not [TS]

  just being greedy for adapter prices [TS]

  that being said these dongles and stuff [TS]

  are still very expensive like they're [TS]

  still Apple prices but there's still [TS]

  more expensive than they need to be and [TS]

  I think it's weird that the price cuts [TS]

  are temporary like that like the fact [TS]

  that it only runs to the end of the year [TS]

  like if they really wanted it to not [TS]

  like it was about dongle profits they [TS]

  should have made the price cuts [TS]

  permanent because these price cuts are [TS]

  not that they don't appear to be [TS]

  unsustainable like like knowing roughly [TS]

  what margins tend to be a retail things [TS]

  like this and and knowing that most of [TS]

  these probably have very few parts of [TS]

  them are probably very inexpensive and [TS]

  probably very profitable to begin with [TS]

  it wouldn't surprise me if most of these [TS]

  had at least a fifty percent margin and [TS]

  probably a larger one and they've cut [TS]

  the prices by like you know twenty five [TS]

  fifty percent basically so I i would be [TS]

  very very surprised if any of these [TS]

  things we're actually losing money at [TS]

  the current prices that's not [TS]

  sustainable by Apple standards because [TS]

  they need forty percent margin on [TS]

  everything i agree that the margins [TS]

  probably weigh over forty percent for [TS]

  accessories and they cut them down to i [TS]

  think is below forty percent although i [TS]

  think they should maybe revisit that [TS]

  because if they if they can't make them [TS]

  like if they're getting fifty percent [TS]

  margin on these things they're spending [TS]

  perhaps too much money making them what [TS]

  I'm saying they should make a crappier [TS]

  but it's been fifty percent that was [TS]

  being that was a conservative estimate [TS]

  i'm guessing the margins are more like [TS]

  eighty percent it's there a lot on this [TS]

  kind of stuff usually they they do make [TS]

  like all their stuff they make their [TS]

  even their little adapters very [TS]

  carefully [TS]

  not so much in terms of reliability as a [TS]

  million people who sent us pictures [TS]

  they're totally destroyed [TS]

  thanks mom but in terms of the [TS]

  tolerances and industrials on their [TS]

  their precision engine [TS]

  your products there's not a lot of [TS]

  plastic mould lines on them all the [TS]

  edges are straight and crisp they look [TS]

  like little pieces of art which also [TS]

  makes them bad adapters in many cases [TS]

  but understand like its it costs money [TS]

  to do that and and they come in a little [TS]

  and the reason I know this is i bought a [TS]

  bunch of them i get back to temporary [TS]

  pricing a second they come in little [TS]

  rectangular boxes that are beautiful [TS]

  origami folded and you know they're just [TS]

  they're they're not just like a little [TS]

  plastic bags you get like with amazon [TS]

  basics and the frustration free [TS]

  packaging or just a cable thrown in [TS]

  there right and you know and I guess I [TS]

  did in terms of how they perform as [TS]

  actual adapters I don't think they're [TS]

  actually better than the other ones but [TS]

  I do see that where some of the money is [TS]

  spent on them so i think they would in [TS]

  general they would be better off make [TS]

  finding a way to manufacture their [TS]

  adapters for less money giving up son [TS]

  some of the beauty and elegance and at [TS]

  the same time making them more reliable [TS]

  adapters and the reason I bought a bunch [TS]

  of them is what you're getting at the [TS]

  temporary pricing it's you know if you [TS]

  want a pessimistic take this is what I [TS]

  thought when I thought oh it's nice [TS]

  they're doing something to you know it'd [TS]

  be nice to all those people who are like [TS]

  posting horror stories that i bought in [TS]

  the macbook pro and also $300 of adapter [TS]

  so i could use the damn thing right [TS]

  that's better look for apple so like now [TS]

  you don't have to spend $150 of adapters [TS]

  but only until the end of the year so [TS]

  what happens in the year by the end of [TS]

  the year has everyone updated all their [TS]

  offices to have connectors that don't [TS]

  require these dongles know they just go [TS]

  back to the old price and the uprising [TS]

  which was really really expensive [TS]

  especially for some of the simpler [TS]

  adapters the reason I bought I bought [TS]

  those uh the USBC to plan all the USBA [TS]

  because that's going to I don't have a [TS]

  computer with ports that require that i [TS]

  got my appletv i suppose i could plug it [TS]

  into what it would do nothing but [TS]

  someday i will have a computer that does [TS]

  that and they were half off basically [TS]

  like nineteen dollars to nine dollars so [TS]

  i bought two of them because i'm going [TS]

  to use them and nine dollars is a price [TS]

  i will pay for that little adapter [TS]

  well i think twenty dollars that adapter [TS]

  hell no i will not pay 2 i'll go to [TS]

  monitor price and find whatever that you [TS]

  know and you know amazonbasics mentioned [TS]

  on I'll find a cheaper one because it's [TS]

  not worth that much my twenty dollars [TS]

  for us bc the USB adapter know so i [TS]

  bought them because they were temporary [TS]

  maybe their system is working to make [TS]

  adding some urgency or whatever but it [TS]

  would be much nicer if they didn't see [TS]

  this as a PR thing that needs to be [TS]

  addressed in the short term but rather [TS]

  as a long-term issue because I think [TS]

  they're going to be selling dongles for [TS]

  a long time and that's going to be [TS]

  factored into the price of people on [TS]

  your laptop especially the next laptop [TS]

  that people by after this one because [TS]

  they'll know all when you buy an apple [TS]

  laptop also reserve a hundred and X [TS]

  dollars for dongles maybe more [TS]

  and the price is going to go right back [TS]

  up it's it's not a good [TS]

  it's not a good situation i mean i know [TS]

  they kind of get away with in the iOS [TS]

  devices where it's like about the island [TS]

  so I suppose you want the one with lots [TS]

  of memory was going to a couple hundred [TS]

  bucks and you want applecare and then [TS]

  you want the front case in the back [TS]

  casing your ipad like it adds up really [TS]

  fast but for some reason and maybe this [TS]

  is illogical the adapter seem like you [TS]

  know relatively more expensive and maybe [TS]

  it's because I don't see the little [TS]

  chips in there and don't understand how [TS]

  expensive it is to get them all [TS]

  integrated into that but this is a [TS]

  problem of apples on making NYC third [TS]

  party ones that can come in for less [TS]

  especially for the simpler adapters [TS]

  makes you think the Apple is choosing [TS]

  the wrong trade-offs when it comes to [TS]

  making its own adapters they're too [TS]

  expensive too precious and not sturdy [TS]

  enough it's funny you say that you went [TS]

  and pick some of these up because I my [TS]

  to-do list this week which i haven't had [TS]

  time for is I wanted to go to the apple [TS]

  store and pick up a handful of these [TS]

  adapters because i have the exact same [TS]

  thought I probably won't have a macbook [TS]

  pro or a mac that uses us pc for at [TS]

  least a year or two but but that time [TS]

  will come so why not just pick up a few [TS]

  of these and I intend to do that that [TS]

  very thing sometime soon [TS]

  the reason i'm laughing is that I did [TS]

  that very often it was so none of the [TS]

  three of us have one of the macbook pros [TS]

  or have ordered one or likely are [TS]

  planning to buy will you break it you [TS]

  briefly ordered one I did and he flipped [TS]

  over and and and i ordered it with two [TS]

  adapters a USBC day and a see the [TS]

  lightning [TS]

  those both shift and arrive before I [TS]

  can't even cancel the laptop so and I'm [TS]

  like well I could return them but well [TS]

  i'm going to use them anyway and then [TS]

  the price drop was announced and they [TS]

  credited me to read the difference like [TS]

  okay that's [TS]

  even better and so I went well i bought [TS]

  i now have to see to a adapters [TS]

  the light.the see lightning gigabit [TS]

  ethernet the sandisk card reader and the [TS]

  Thunderbolt 2 adapter because i have [TS]

  have an external sound device that I [TS]

  that we recorded TP @ WC with its [TS]

  vulnerable and I i think all the exact [TS]

  same calculations as you guys it's like [TS]

  well I'm gonna need these eventually and [TS]

  they're probably not going to get [TS]

  cheaper over time like this its public [TS]

  i'm going to be these suit probably [TS]

  within the next two years i will i will [TS]

  need these adapters and think like [TS]

  things like the see the lightning cable [TS]

  that's just the new lightning cable i [TS]

  need tons of lightning cables they're [TS]

  all over the place like I simply have to [TS]

  pick up one of these at whatever it is [TS]

  nineteen dollars of 25 to get that was a [TS]

  small price drop on that one but like [TS]

  well I'm gonna need these supplies will [TS]

  get its people you should make like a [TS]

  paper kraft mac book pro and plug all [TS]

  your dog into it [TS]

  yeah yeah i cant pretend computer [TS]

  yeah but I again I do admit though I [TS]

  agree John that it is very strange [TS]

  these price drops are only temporary and [TS]

  the dogs because again like they're [TS]

  still making them like monoprice level [TS]

  pricing or anything like they're still [TS]

  there still expensive compared to the [TS]

  no-name ones and that's fine there they [TS]

  are better they dropping down to the [TS]

  same price as good quality third-party [TS]

  peripherals like that's only did it's [TS]

  not like it's a super-duper bargains [TS]

  just like oh this is the price i would [TS]

  expect to see if I found whatever the [TS]

  best third-party one is out there a [TS]

  similar price to this and like they [TS]

  botch the pr on this too because they [TS]

  did the right thing in credited [TS]

  everybody but the way we found that out [TS]

  was like other dropping prices but what [TS]

  about the people who already ordered [TS]

  them and then we had to wait for people [TS]

  to start getting credit that's got to be [TS]

  part of your message [TS]

  happy we've lowered all the prices and [TS]

  by the way if you bought one of the past [TS]

  x days we're going to credit you which [TS]

  they obviously did like they did the [TS]

  right thing like when you're gonna do [TS]

  the right thing Apple tell us about it [TS]

  because it's good PR like and don't [TS]

  leave people wondering like oh now I [TS]

  feel bad that i bought them there but [TS]

  what happened to the poor suckers who [TS]

  bought them or whatever and you know we [TS]

  found out a couple hours a day later [TS]

  that will do the right thing but why [TS]

  like that was another drop the ball [TS]

  yeah but I [TS]

  but regardless this is a good move i [TS]

  wish they would make the price cuts [TS]

  permanent they might still do that but [TS]

  they haven't they said to fill in the [TS]

  year they could change their minds or [TS]

  they could cut the prices later you know [TS]

  after at some period of time again but [TS]

  and the end of the only difficulty [TS]

  finding about the end of the year thing [TS]

  is that I I was honestly tempted to [TS]

  order the LG Display to that the big [TS]

  five years but because like well that is [TS]

  only going to be available for ordering [TS]

  at this [TS]

  $300 discount for a couple of weeks [TS]

  maybe because you can even order one yet [TS]

  the website currently says it will [TS]

  become available in december and the [TS]

  price drop is still the end of the year [TS]

  so you're gonna have like a few weeks in [TS]

  december when you can actually order [TS]

  this thing to disk but who knows when it [TS]

  would actually ship and arrive i'm [TS]

  thinking like well will there ever be a [TS]

  time like if they make a new mac pro [TS]

  next year I'm gonna want one of those [TS]

  displays if it's still in a standalone [TS]

  micro but I'm not confident enough that [TS]

  it will be a standalone mac pro that [TS]

  will exist that will be out next year to [TS]

  actually order one of these things like [TS]

  six months ahead of time you just hooked [TS]

  up to your paragraph macbook pro and [TS]

  you'll have a complete set up your [TS]

  computer part you'll have the dongles [TS]

  you have the screen will be beautiful [TS]

  excuse your iPad's to pretend touch bar [TS]

  yeah right we'll have the whole computer [TS]

  except the screen keyboard and trackpad [TS]

  and the cpu in the GPO it's yeah it's [TS]

  gonna be after what once we get to the [TS]

  other side you know we're in these like [TS]

  heavy transitional arrows you know first [TS]

  we went retina and SSD right and we [TS]

  still have not finished those transition [TS]

  it's super close but we still have not [TS]

  completed those two large transitions [TS]

  completely you can still go out and buy [TS]

  not even just one but many Mac models [TS]

  that either don't have retina don't have [TS]

  ssds by default or even both which is [TS]

  embarrassing but those transitions are [TS]

  almost done once you're past it once you [TS]

  have a Retina computer with a net with [TS]

  all SSD storage not fusion drive all SSD [TS]

  storage it is a thing of beauty it is [TS]

  amazing it's such a good computer from [TS]

  that point forward and USBC is going to [TS]

  the same thing for ports it's like we [TS]

  have this kind of cumbersome annoying [TS]

  transition that's going to break a lot [TS]

  of things like all [TS]

  monitors that you won't be able to use [TS]

  any more new like that it's putting up [TS]

  this big barrier changing all the ports [TS]

  requiring this dongle sale and [TS]

  everything else but once we get to that [TS]

  promise land of all USB seaports and all [TS]

  or mostly USBC peripherals it's going to [TS]

  be really nice but you and the benefits [TS]

  of the mapper like being able to charge [TS]

  it on both sides like that's cool like [TS]

  that that's a useful thing it's going to [TS]

  be a really nice road when we get there [TS]

  but the transition is going to be [TS]

  but the transition is going to be [TS]

  uncomfortable just like all these other [TS]

  ones have been are you still have our [TS]

  new thing in our future world will be [TS]

  confusion about the USBC the lightning [TS]

  cable which end is which because they [TS]

  are there different sizes and you can [TS]

  tell if you look at them but if you're [TS]

  not paying attention and you just pick [TS]

  the skinny little cable up the two [TS]

  skinny lens and we don't have the [TS]

  problem of like usba where you keep [TS]

  flipping it over three times to get in [TS]

  right because it bidirectional but you [TS]

  might find yourself sticking the [TS]

  Lightning plug into the side of your [TS]

  macbook pro maybe just once or twice [TS]

  before you realize what's going on [TS]

  we respond to this week by hover and the [TS]

  upcoming dot blog TLD go to hover com [TS]

  /name my blog to learn more and you can [TS]

  use code dongle sale this week for ten [TS]

  percent off any new domain purchases [TS]

  online publishing platform like [TS]

  wordpress tumblr and medium there's [TS]

  never been a better time to have a blog [TS]

  well actually the better time to have a [TS]

  blog is going to be monday November 21st [TS]

  that's in a couple of weeks at this time [TS]

  remember 21st dot blog domain names will [TS]

  become available for registration of [TS]

  hover and because dot blog is a new [TS]

  top-level domain name you got a really [TS]

  good chance of finding your first choice [TS]

  of a unique relevant and memorable name [TS]

  for your blog to be first in line go to [TS]

  hover dot-com /name my blog that's hover [TS]

  com /name my blog to be notified the [TS]

  moment that dot log domains become [TS]

  available for registration and of course [TS]

  all dot blog domains will come with the [TS]

  great things you'd expect from hover [TS]

  like free who is privacy no heavy-handed [TS]

  upselling and their signature no wait no [TS]

  hold no transfer phone support if you [TS]

  ever need it again go to hover dot-com [TS]

  /name my blog for the new dot blog [TS]

  domain extension and of course however [TS]

  is there for all your domain name needs [TS]

  and you can use code dungal sale for ten [TS]

  percent off thats dongle sale for ten [TS]

  percent off hover domain names for your [TS]

  ideas [TS]

  we had talked I think briefly last week [TS]

  and then we ended up shelving it so we [TS]

  could discuss this week about the [TS]

  thought of arm processors on the mac and [TS]

  i think i might have brought this up [TS]

  because i was saying that you know if [TS]

  you look at a lot of the angst that's [TS]

  been floating around the community with [TS]

  regards to the macbook pro and the mac [TS]

  pro there is a way that you can blame a [TS]

  lot of these troubles on intel not to [TS]

  say that Apple's blameless by any [TS]

  stretch of the imagination but you can [TS]

  paint a picture in which Intel holds a [TS]

  lot of the blame and it's in Apple's [TS]

  it'sit's apples modus operandi to [TS]

  control everything han and so it [TS]

  controls the chips on the iOS lines [TS]

  why wouldn't it make sense for them to [TS]

  try to control the chip on the macbook [TS]

  pro a really just the mac lines and so [TS]

  that makes you think well why wouldn't [TS]

  they use an ARM chip like they have in [TS]

  the iOS lines and throw that on its [TS]

  presumably going to be very low power [TS]

  and you know they're the modern iOS [TS]

  devices are nearly as fast as modern max [TS]

  and so it seems on paper to make sense [TS]

  why wouldn't they give it a shot [TS]

  I mean the transition would stink but [TS]

  we've already done this once with the [TS]

  transition from powerpc and intel and [TS]

  fat binary and blah blah [TS]

  why not try again but twice right so why [TS]

  not try to get what we need we need like [TS]

  an old Mac sound effect whatever john [TS]

  schools are some like it's something [TS]

  that came came across the mac before [TS]

  2000 for powerpc transition was awesome [TS]

  graphing calculator was a miracle we [TS]

  could use that we can use to startup [TS]

  chime since it's not a thing anymore [TS]

  there you go so we discuss his arm in [TS]

  the mac thing so many times they're [TS]

  probably gonna say all the same things [TS]

  here but the reason that would think it [TS]

  was worth bringing up again the reason [TS]

  we related to the show is because like [TS]

  things change [TS]

  it's surprisingly quickly in the world [TS]

  of arm CPUs it just like to briefly [TS]

  summarize all the things we've said in [TS]

  the past x86 is important for windows [TS]

  compatibility how important is that [TS]

  still but it is a thing [TS]

  why would Apple spend money producing [TS]

  arm chips for the Mac because the Mac [TS]

  doesn't sell enough volume to be worth [TS]

  creating your own chips whereas the iOS [TS]

  chips do and that leads to okay well all [TS]

  you gotta do is wait until you can do [TS]

  the investment design your own fancy arm [TS]

  chip that you use in your iOS devices [TS]

  and basically use that same chip or the [TS]

  same architecture maybe with more cores [TS]

  and more fancy basically like the work [TS]

  you did for your iOS devices transfers [TS]

  directly to the mac and then you solve [TS]

  the investment problem because I go I'm [TS]

  doing this work anyway for the next [TS]

  iphone doesn't cost that much more to [TS]

  make it a bigger more powerful version [TS]

  of it and throw it in to a macbook thing [TS]

  it solves the problem of relying on [TS]

  intel like AC was going to business been [TS]

  a bad run lately with delays and [TS]

  everything like that Apple's the master [TS]

  of its own destiny and you just have the [TS]

  x86 compatibility stuff to deal with and [TS]

  the reason i think it's worth revisiting [TS]

  again it's because just one year since [TS]

  last time we probably discussed it [TS]

  the chip that's in the latest iPhones is [TS]

  I think faster than some macs and its [TS]

  clock lower and in most cases and like I [TS]

  think we're kind of at that [TS]

  not quite at the point of getting close [TS]

  to the point where the work they do for [TS]

  the iphone cpu is directly transferable [TS]

  to the mac in terms of you know what [TS]

  kind of performance could you get out of [TS]

  it and you know with you know making a [TS]

  bigger version clocking at higher maybe [TS]

  putting in a couple more cores I think [TS]

  we're there for the low and Max and if [TS]

  they don't even make any high-end [TS]

  maximum or maybe doesn't matter so it [TS]

  you know as this equation keeps changing [TS]

  as we depressingly look at the Geekbench [TS]

  scores for the latest phone and [TS]

  comparison to what ever Mac were sitting [TS]

  in front of and go what what is going on [TS]

  here [TS]

  you know the world is upside down the [TS]

  the balance of all those factors are [TS]

  discussed that Apple have to be changing [TS]

  it really depends on the weight you give [TS]

  to them to decide is this the go or [TS]

  no-go moment and again we all just [TS]

  assume that Apple has you know has [TS]

  either been working on or understand the [TS]

  challenges of converting mac OS to arm [TS]

  if it hasn't done so already but like [TS]

  especially with integration of the armed [TS]

  ship for the touch ID the viability [TS]

  and desirability of an arm-based mac to [TS]

  both Apple and consumers only increases [TS]

  over time and I feel like this has to [TS]

  come to head eventually unless Intel [TS]

  gets back in gear and there's another to [TS]

  process levels ahead of everybody else [TS]

  and I guess the wild-card is that 3x [TS]

  points stuff which I don't know if it's [TS]

  like proprietary in any way or tied to [TS]

  Intel in any specific way but that could [TS]

  there are many ways it at the Intel [TS]

  could ensure that it keeps apples [TS]

  business but especially with this recent [TS]

  delay and the new macbooks and looking [TS]

  at the scores for the new iphones i'm in [TS]

  my mind anyway things are shifting much [TS]

  more towards the possibility of our max [TS]

  in the future than I would have thought [TS]

  you just the year ago I completely agree [TS]

  with you and you know it's worth noting [TS]

  as I have in the past that to switch to [TS]

  arm would incur some pretty significant [TS]

  costs for a lot of developers which [TS]

  admittedly are very very very small part [TS]

  of the market but you know doing [TS]

  virtualization on an intel box for [TS]

  windows which is really now only running [TS]

  on intel again that's easier than trying [TS]

  to do some sort of you know [TS]

  cross-compilation from arm to xat [TS]

  certain I'm sorry from x86 to arm so if [TS]

  old me you know though when the meeting [TS]

  was still writing code and windows which [TS]

  actually happened earlier today but we'd [TS]

  leave that aside the one told me that [TS]

  was doing it professionally 40 plus [TS]

  hours a week i would probably have to go [TS]

  back to a pc because presumably it would [TS]

  be just awful to have to cross compiler [TS]

  really what's the term I'm looking [TS]

  forward to cross-compile emulate the [TS]

  really emulate is what i'm looking for [TS]

  to emulate x86 on top of armed me maybe [TS]

  it would be quick but I would assume [TS]

  that it would not and you know as we [TS]

  talk about the past I remember even as a [TS]

  not mac person i remember hearing about [TS]

  the no pc on a daughter board that some [TS]

  people plugged into their max so they [TS]

  could run windows on them and so they're [TS]

  definitely cost to this is costing [TS]

  software pain you know you would have to [TS]

  have some sort of emulation layer for [TS]

  x86 or Leo was the [TS]

  was the thing they did for pot the [TS]

  powerpc on top of Intel was named that [TS]

  represent a rosetta thank you [TS]

  I've got to solution for you Casey yeah [TS]

  it's a dongle and inside it is around [TS]

  haha that's not what I mean you just [TS]

  mentioned basically a pci card it was I [TS]

  think it was a new but actually yeah [TS]

  right like you could fairly easily put a [TS]

  reasonably powerful x86 computer inside [TS]

  a dongle connected to a thunderbolt [TS]

  three board and the only people who have [TS]

  to have that Donald other people who [TS]

  need to do that at this [TS]

  I mean it's not just that it's like also [TS]

  people who wanted you know use people [TS]

  want to run software on there if you [TS]

  just want to run like Iran does it work [TS]

  recently which is depressing docker does [TS]

  not run on my mac at work is too old [TS]

  because it's all I've divisor stuff or [TS]

  whatever but anyway doctor is not gonna [TS]

  run if your doctor for deploying on and [TS]

  on x86 based services not going to run [TS]

  our mac and so I don't need to get the [TS]

  dongle to have fair enough i didn't [TS]

  think that way also doing a quick search [TS]

  it looks like the first time that we [TS]

  spoke about this that I could quickly [TS]

  find was episode 35 almost exactly three [TS]

  years ago on october 18 of 2013 where we [TS]

  discussed where is it how touch ID could [TS]

  be used in max haha and whether our [TS]

  macbooks would be worth the transition [TS]

  costs so does that make this follow-up [TS]

  crossover in topic splitter now when we [TS]

  talk about the peripheral price cuts [TS]

  everything the chatroom wants to tell us [TS]

  all that Thunderbolt is an intel thing [TS]

  like all things are solvable with money [TS]

  though it's really believe this like [TS]

  it's like we talked about last week [TS]

  Apple could make x86 chips and get off [TS]

  the Intel bandwagon and you know there's [TS]

  there's lots of possibilities here and [TS]

  involving money changing hands and [TS]

  licensing deals and so on and so forth [TS]

  and another thing that factors into this [TS]

  i forgot to mention in the whole summary [TS]

  is that for a long time [TS]

  intel has had this massive advantage [TS]

  they were on the the new process size [TS]

  before everybody else sometimes like a [TS]

  year or more before everybody else so [TS]

  everything they made had just like a [TS]

  built-in advantage of be of you being [TS]

  lower power and smaller you know and [TS]

  like they they were first whatever the [TS]

  the process sizes and lately I don't [TS]

  have been seeing lots of stories and [TS]

  collecting on the show notes then [TS]

  eventually deleting them are aging them [TS]

  off lots of stuff about like well [TS]

  intel is not going to be first to 10 [TS]

  nanometers or intel already is in first [TS]

  10 nanometers like no those are just [TS]

  promises Intel will still be first and [TS]

  Intel's the only one who's going to be [TS]

  able to proceed beyond that because i've [TS]

  done a deep R&D and like four back in [TS]

  that show 36 or whatever one of the [TS]

  topics we've probably talked about is [TS]

  like does doesn't it just want to be a [TS]

  fab for everybody else because they have [TS]

  the best process [TS]

  wouldn't it be great of Apple could have [TS]

  Intel fab all of its you know a series [TS]

  chips on their fancy new process and you [TS]

  know until is making some of the chips [TS]

  and phones but not the big one not the a [TS]

  serious step that is making more like a [TS]

  radio chip that is not as good as the [TS]

  the Qualcomm on yet many of its that I [TS]

  have that doesn't work you know [TS]

  well I don't know if that's why you're [TS]

  you're having dropped calls but be the [TS]

  way like it used to be the Intel was [TS]

  unquestionably the best place to find [TS]

  yourself isn't always like we're not [TS]

  going to stab your stuff we want to sell [TS]

  you chips that we make we make way more [TS]

  money off those not gonna be a stupid [TS]

  fab that's not what we are we're not [TS]

  just a fab where Intel we make chips and [TS]

  it i'm not going to say that Intel is [TS]

  losing its lead-in fabtech but it seems [TS]

  less clear-cut to me as a fairly casual [TS]

  observer of the silicon chip industry [TS]

  that Intel's lead on process is no [TS]

  longer as big as it used to be and I [TS]

  forget what are the a-10 being made as [TS]

  it is a 14 animator I figure out what [TS]

  size they are but I keep reading stories [TS]

  about you know [TS]

  taiwan semiconductor will be a 10-meter [TS]

  before Intel is and also examine [TS]

  nanometer who's 16 [TS]

  yeah maybe they still have believed it [TS]

  just doesn't seem as big to me as it [TS]

  used to be and also Intel seems to be [TS]

  more open now to fabbing things for [TS]

  other people there was some of the story [TS]

  on this one's about that a while back so [TS]

  add that to get another set of variables [TS]

  that are slowly shifting more towards [TS]

  being in favor of our max I don't think [TS]

  any of the stuff is a tipping point yet [TS]

  but when we revisit this topic in a year [TS]

  it may be a slam doc I mean at this [TS]

  point i would say that the the processor [TS]

  itself is probably no longer the reason [TS]

  why they're not doing it it's everything [TS]

  around the processor you know it's all [TS]

  the like the memory controllers and the [TS]

  Thunderbolt if they want you know they [TS]

  have to move away from Thunderbolt mile [TS]

  in all likelihood which by the way like [TS]

  yeah I mean Apple did just make a pretty [TS]

  big bet on Thunderbolt with the USBC [TS]

  transition [TS]

  like that that's a big bed but Apple [TS]

  changes their mind when they need to [TS]

  like they they can totally say you know [TS]

  what [TS]

  Thunderbolt was great last year this [TS]

  year we can't do it anymore too bad [TS]

  byeeeee noodles that they don't have to [TS]

  change their mind like I said that this [TS]

  like these are all solvable problems [TS]

  with money like I'm sure in hell could [TS]

  come to some agreement with Apple [TS]

  involving exchanges of money that would [TS]

  allow someone somewhere to build an arm [TS]

  chip with other like I don't think [TS]

  there's anything specifically exit the [TS]

  x86 specific about even though it's like [TS]

  bite or crap like these are solvable [TS]

  problems technically monetarily it could [TS]

  be another barrier and that's another [TS]

  variable like on the against side and [TS]

  maybe it's a big barrier because Intel's [TS]

  like no we're never going to license it [TS]

  and you know stuff like I we don't know [TS]

  we don't know the constants that applied [TS]

  to all these different factors but i [TS]

  don't i don't say it rules it out and I [TS]

  wouldn't say that Intel is incredibly [TS]

  flexible on things like that but you [TS]

  give thing too is like it would be [TS]

  possible although i don't think it would [TS]

  last very long I think I think it would [TS]

  be a transitional thing but it would be [TS]

  possible to only make some models with [TS]

  armed ships like only the macbook 14 [TS]

  only the macbook one and escape you know [TS]

  and so you keep like the pro models on [TS]

  intel so if they could they could just [TS]

  say you know what if you need to [TS]

  virtualize windows or whatever you could [TS]

  use the pro model and if you need [TS]

  Thunderbolt you the pro model and if you [TS]

  if you're if you are willing to get the [TS]

  smallest lightest thing that doesn't [TS]

  have all the pro features then you can [TS]

  have these two models that are arm-based [TS]

  maybe the mac mini becomes our bases [TS]

  well who knows you know there's they [TS]

  have lots of options there if they [TS]

  wanted to go that route I I don't know [TS]

  if again i don't know if they will I [TS]

  don't know if it makes sense you know [TS]

  for them to put so much effort into this [TS]

  transition if they're not really hurting [TS]

  badly from in tow [TS]

  but i think there have been times over [TS]

  the last couple years where they have [TS]

  been really hurting badly because of [TS]

  Intel and I you know especially mean if [TS]

  they care about the mac pro more it [TS]

  would be the more pressing there because [TS]

  the mac pro it has been historically [TS]

  even more limited by Intel even that [TS]

  even before i start skipping generations [TS]

  you're right money does solve a lot of [TS]

  things they can make a deal but Intel [TS]

  really is pretty inflexible on certain [TS]

  things these days and it doesn't seem [TS]

  like Apple is a large enough for [TS]

  profitable enough [TS]

  tell customer for apt to be able to [TS]

  dictate terms to them anymore if they [TS]

  ever were [TS]

  apple's big bargaining chip though is [TS]

  that they could say hey and tell I know [TS]

  you don't want to be a fab but if you [TS]

  were going to fab something the a-series [TS]

  chips in our iOS devices it's pretty [TS]

  good volume there [TS]

  fair point also to go back a half-step [TS]

  Marco you had said you know you could [TS]

  make just the you know macbook one have [TS]

  the new arm chip just for the sake of [TS]

  discussion and i agree with you but [TS]

  wouldn't we run into the same sort of [TS]

  problem with this USBC transition where [TS]

  if if the macbook one is running arm but [TS]

  nothing else is what is incentivizing [TS]

  the software developers to rebuild their [TS]

  apps for the arm platform and make that [TS]

  binary some blah blah [TS]

  if only one presumably low-volume mac is [TS]

  on arm and everything else is stolen and [TS]

  tell the mac app store rules if only [TS]

  magnet back developers actually sold [TS]

  thanks for the matter was alright but [TS]

  nothing i'm sure they would do that that [TS]

  would be their thing they would they [TS]

  would mandate in the mac app store and [TS]

  honestly developers would do it if it is [TS]

  easily is just changing some settings [TS]

  and feelings and stuff around like at [TS]

  this point most conscientious Mac [TS]

  developers should not have architecture [TS]

  specific code in like they still have WD [TS]

  sessions say how to tell if you're doing [TS]

  something that relies on you know word [TS]

  size or by daughter and especially with [TS]

  Swift and stuff with the stuff being [TS]

  abstract away and not have to worry [TS]

  about see in San shorts and whatever the [TS]

  hell those are right you know on [TS]

  different architectures and all that [TS]

  crap i think it would be that bad and [TS]

  developers to do it because if you want [TS]

  to sell those people you'll do it right [TS]

  like maybe the people making props [TS]

  wouldn't because they don't want to sell [TS]

  to the macbook escape people but it is [TS]

  surmountable and I think there are [TS]

  incentives for people to get on board as [TS]

  time goes on it becomes less and less [TS]

  difficult to make relatively portable [TS]

  code like you know that we we have moved [TS]

  up so many layers of abstraction and so [TS]

  much of our code we do so little custom [TS]

  assembly or by order assumptions are you [TS]

  know binary operations at that level at [TS]

  all anymore that it's less and less work [TS]

  now and you know if I i think i think [TS]

  developers are going to do more work to [TS]

  support the touch bar then they would [TS]

  need to do to make an armed version of [TS]

  almost any app except for game [TS]

  developers they'd be screwed [TS]

  what gets delivered to the app store [TS]

  because i am I haven't looked at this in [TS]

  a while but doesn't Swift compile to its [TS]

  own intermediate language then gets [TS]

  compiled like an llvm intermediate [TS]

  language is that what gets pushed the [TS]

  app store and that's what the code is [TS]

  all about I think you're mixing bisco [TS]

  get caught up with the sill stuff which [TS]

  is a whole different i think you're [TS]

  right i think i forget what the the bit [TS]

  code policy is you remember our go a bit [TS]

  code is required on the watch i believe [TS]

  i think it's optional for iphone still [TS]

  and i don't i don't know if the mac app [TS]

  store may rest in peace even supports it [TS]

  i I don't know anyway but bit code that [TS]

  the number of people have uploaded and [TS]

  basically determined that big code is [TS]

  probably not a very good way to just [TS]

  automatically generate like a whole arm [TS]

  thing is big coat i think is is too low [TS]

  level it sits beneath the compiled level [TS]

  and so basically like assumptions about [TS]

  by order and stuff would would not [TS]

  translate automatically gotcha ok but [TS]

  you see what I'm driving at though I [TS]

  wasn't sure if this could solve that [TS]

  problem for you i'm pretty sure bit code [TS]

  is not the answer to like an automatic [TS]

  arm build of everything in the store if [TS]

  it's yeah what was it good was it mostly [TS]

  africa i used to know this about bit [TS]

  cold but not running is always to [TS]

  interviews for a long time lets you [TS]

  forget all these things that I remember [TS]

  the details like apples motivation for [TS]

  doing it was so they have more [TS]

  flexibility with like fiddling with [TS]

  instructions from one generation to the [TS]

  next of like the s-1 chip for the s2 and [TS]

  so on and so forth that because you're [TS]

  not delivering machine code that they [TS]

  just run as-is they have some [TS]

  flexibility if they change instruction [TS]

  or move instruction replace it with [TS]

  another one is slightly different that [TS]

  they can do the final final machine code [TS]

  generation business anyway [TS]

  developers were all antsy about it and [TS]

  who knows how long we'll be a thing but [TS]

  on the watch [TS]

  that's what i was thinking on the watch [TS]

  like it is a thing that has been from [TS]

  day one right everything for the watches [TS]

  delivered its bit code which gives Apple [TS]

  more flexibility with hardware design [TS]

  and they would have if everyone were [TS]

  shipping just binaries that run as-is [TS]

  yeah I thought that the the pitch [TS]

  treason for bit code was that this way [TS]

  as a user you would only download the [TS]

  version of the binary that's built for [TS]

  your platform [TS]

  rather than having to get the two kind [TS]

  of building on what you were saying [TS]

  rather rather than having to get the a6 [TS]

  version a 78 version would have you [TS]

  would just have the version of the app [TS]

  built against the processor that you [TS]

  have ya Dustin would be a smaller [TS]

  download that's true too although like [TS]

  with with binary you know in most cases [TS]

  as most of Marcos apps proof exists like [TS]

  to include graphics because he uses [TS]

  paint code for everything [TS]

  the size of your application is not [TS]

  determined by the size of your code [TS]

  these days like my hands are bigger than [TS]

  had been a lot of your code right i will [TS]

  say that a lot of apps involve a large [TS]

  quantity of advertising and tracking [TS]

  SDKs and those can actually ahead a [TS]

  non-trivial amount of binary search is [TS]

  middle and a lot of their sizes assets [TS]

  as well but yeah a lot of those can get [TS]

  pretty sizable and make the binary [TS]

  pretty ridiculous that the Swiss [TS]

  standard library i think i think still [TS]

  has to ship with the applications [TS]

  because they haven't worked out the ABI [TS]

  compatibility yesterday is another [TS]

  another big things in there but for you [TS]

  know for applications of appreciable [TS]

  sized when you're saying things like you [TS]

  know one gigabyte game that's not code [TS]

  that's all that's all assets we're [TS]

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  there's been a couple of calls for a [TS]

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  John should there be mad clones again [TS]

  this is a was mentioned last show as a [TS]

  measure of exactly how deep the [TS]

  dissatisfaction in some quarters was [TS]

  about the new macbook pros they're [TS]

  saying look if you're not going to make [TS]

  the pro mac that I want to make how [TS]

  about letting other people baked mac [TS]

  hardware that way Apple you don't have [TS]

  to worry about it anymore [TS]

  someone else will address my needs and [TS]

  everyone be happy is not great Mac [TS]

  cloning is done we did it once before we [TS]

  can do it again just license the mac [TS]

  operating system and i will gladly buy [TS]

  from some other company that actually [TS]

  cares about my needs and will make me [TS]

  the big honking computer that I want and [TS]

  we've been down this road before in the [TS]

  past for most of apples history with the [TS]

  mac people have been clamoring for them [TS]

  to clinics that was IBM's half [TS]

  accidental strategy at IBM Intel and [TS]

  windows like that whole big mess the way [TS]

  it ended up through no particular grand [TS]

  plan of anybody except perhaps microsoft [TS]

  was that you could buy a pc from [TS]

  companies other than IBM their [TS]

  ibm-compatible and they all would suit [TS]

  your needs they could all run ms-dos and [TS]

  Microsoft Windows eventually and all [TS]

  that other stuff and so the hardware [TS]

  vendors will compete with each other and [TS]

  have their own race to the bottom until [TS]

  the albino businesses suffered L&O [TS]

  anyway blah blah [TS]

  um everyone was saying during the go [TS]

  ladies early nineties hey Apple IBM [TS]

  Microsoft whoever eating your lunch [TS]

  because they let anybody make hardware [TS]

  and they have competition and capitalism [TS]

  and yay eighties you should like your [TS]

  backside and apples that no we're not [TS]

  starting system and every time Apple did [TS]

  something that someone didn't like was I [TS]

  see if you just license your operating [TS]

  system you've been doing much better in [TS]

  the end eventually i think apple now [TS]

  making so much more money than the other [TS]

  pc makers has come out the other side [TS]

  and saying I guess I strategy was pretty [TS]

  good but in the middle there [TS]

  couple of actual CEOs were convinced [TS]

  that this is a good idea thanks pendler [TS]

  started maybe I forget I'm blaming the [TS]

  wrong CEO for starting that cloning but [TS]

  they said you did what Apple is getting [TS]

  increasingly desperate i still in avenue [TS]

  operating system and windows 95 98 and [TS]

  so on so we're taking over the world and [TS]

  I hadn't yet but next one of the panic [TS]

  plans they made it was alright people [TS]

  keep saying license and operating system [TS]

  uh let's do that and they did that with [TS]

  predictable results because that was not [TS]

  licensing for a position of power it [TS]

  allowed a bunch of third parties to make [TS]

  mac loans very often based on mac apple [TS]

  derived reference hardware designs these [TS]

  clone company sometimes it even have to [TS]

  do the hard work to build their own [TS]

  hardware they could just sort of make [TS]

  hardware that was like apples but a [TS]

  little bit better and do a little bit of [TS]

  work in addition to that it didn't help [TS]

  Apple make more money the license fees [TS]

  did not make up for the loss of hardware [TS]

  sales steve jobs came back was nothing [TS]

  with steve jobs came back he candidate [TS]

  many women can before then driven can [TS]

  before that and the brief Macklin [TS]

  experiment ended and for most people [TS]

  looking backwards on it they're gonna go [TS]

  Matt clothing that was such a big [TS]

  mistake it didn't actually help Apple [TS]

  actually hurt apple and it was kind of [TS]

  cruel to do Mac clones and then a year [TS]

  or two later say oh just kidding no more [TS]

  mac loans and so all those companies [TS]

  spring up around making mac clones have [TS]

  a brief moment in the Sun and then had [TS]

  to disappear because their entire [TS]

  business on motorola even made them for [TS]

  crying out loud motorola made mac loans [TS]

  and so I would imagine for you people [TS]

  who didn't live through it you silly [TS]

  Millennials it just seems like a coffin [TS]

  but to me who lived through it i do have [TS]

  some fun memories and i think most mac [TS]

  users who lived through the corner do [TS]

  have some fun memories of it for the [TS]

  just the reasons we just talked about [TS]

  like within the the macbook pro and [TS]

  dissatisfaction there was a time when if [TS]

  Apple didn't make a mac that was like [TS]

  you wanted to buy a bike it didn't [TS]

  didn't have the right balance of [TS]

  features and price and so on and so [TS]

  forth there was a chance there will be [TS]

  another company that would and these [TS]

  companies the macro micro no dummies [TS]

  they tried to fill markets the market [TS]

  niches that Apple do [TS]

  you want to and so they would clock [TS]

  there cpus little bit higher they would [TS]

  make boring-looking Tara boxes that were [TS]

  nevertheless much more expendable the [TS]

  apples designs they would sell computers [TS]

  for less money than apple they would do [TS]

  all sorts of things that Apple wasn't [TS]

  going to do or just giving you different [TS]

  combinations of size and hard drive [TS]

  space and video capabilities in you know [TS]

  it was actually a fairly exciting time [TS]

  to be a Mac user and a lot of people [TS]

  actually bought those clones and where [TS]

  these nice Apple computers know and that [TS]

  the companies weren't around very long [TS]

  as Apple stop cloning but for a brief [TS]

  moment there we were in that that world [TS]

  where if you were an enthusiast who like [TS]

  to run the mac operating system you had [TS]

  more choices and it was it was kind of [TS]

  fun [TS]

  now this doesn't mean we should do it [TS]

  again now it's a silly overreaction to a [TS]

  new product that some people were mildly [TS]

  dissatisfied with but like I guess maybe [TS]

  just I have my main point of this is to [TS]

  say that Matt clothes weren't actually [TS]

  all bad and have apple ever loses total [TS]

  interest in either the mac entirely or [TS]

  the high end of the mac market some kind [TS]

  of limited licensing plan could work [TS]

  just like the LG monitor is currently [TS]

  the only one you can buy that works with [TS]

  the macbook pro and i assume there will [TS]

  be other ones but imagine if like one [TS]

  company was blessed is the company that [TS]

  makes the pro mac hardware and it was [TS]

  blessed by Apple and it was the only [TS]

  there was was no it's not like you had [TS]

  50 more choices but merely you had two [TS]

  choices were before you have zero or [TS]

  before you just have one that's the [TS]

  thing i think Pro users would find [TS]

  reasonably acceptable and Apple might [TS]

  find advantageous why we make some money [TS]

  office market let someone else do the [TS]

  heavy lifting without increasing our [TS]

  support burden too much [TS]

  obviously this is totally outside around [TS]

  philosophically speaking I think [TS]

  anything that apple would ever consider [TS]

  but from a consumer perspective it seems [TS]

  viable to me i don't see the apple today [TS]

  doing it but everything you just said [TS]

  does make sense it was a cranberry and [TS]

  America article about Apple should pull [TS]

  the novo and you know this exact thing [TS]

  just have have one company do it [TS]

  hardware stuff Apple not interested [TS]

  anymore i think mostly just a [TS]

  reaction though you're not gonna make [TS]

  the hardware i want lunch let somebody [TS]

  else do it like totally an overreaction [TS]

  but they're kinda like the arm on the [TS]

  mac like there's something to it and [TS]

  it's not the time to do it now but will [TS]

  check back in five years and see how [TS]

  things have changed so for reference i [TS]

  have configured a mac pro like [TS]

  workstation at dell.com I'm so sorry if [TS]

  you think if you try to configure [TS]

  anything complicated at dell.com [TS]

  recently [TS]

  Wow my goodness so i have a few errors [TS]

  in my configuration that need to be [TS]

  fixed according to this slip this [TS]

  popover dialogue now one of those is the [TS]

  pcie solid-state drive boot drive [TS]

  requires the harder to be the pcie boot [TS]

  drive please updated as needed [TS]

  of course it can update for me wow the [TS]

  pcie solid-state drive is not compatible [TS]

  with the dual video card please update [TS]

  the internal hardware configuration [TS]

  required pcie food driving pcie [TS]

  solid-state drive but really this needed [TS]

  to be sure to update the selection for [TS]

  boot drive hard drive also the selection [TS]

  of food options for the pcie solid-state [TS]

  drives that being said if I could [TS]

  somehow make this configuration work i [TS]

  have configured what I think would be a [TS]

  modern version of the high and mac pro t [TS]

  12-core mac pro the current 12-core mac [TS]

  pro which is three years old and slow 64 [TS]

  gig one terabyte pci-express SD base [TS]

  video card which is the D 500 ish that [TS]

  is eight hundred dollars for this and [TS]

  that m800 by the way i think is now less [TS]

  powerful than the GPU in the ipad pro [TS]

  already closed [TS]

  probably yeah so the similar del with a [TS]

  brand-new Broadwell e-z on [TS]

  oh crap i'm sorry i had the eight-core [TS]

  selected to change the switch the micro [TS]

  a call right Mac Pro 7300 dollars in the [TS]

  Acorn fix every 300 macro 5404 the for [TS]

  the dealt with the brand new parts that [TS]

  are faster so it there is a substantial [TS]

  price gain here for you for you know if [TS]

  if you wanted to do pc hardware that was [TS]

  similar and in many ways better but the [TS]

  land dildo they'll do it [TS]

  would like 10 or even HP or anybody else [TS]

  would be better know the only reason I [TS]

  went to del on this was that I checked [TS]

  earlier in the week and HP does not seem [TS]

  to offer the Broadwell easy on the [TS]

  they're all the VIII's and probably for [TS]

  anyway doesn't matter but yeah it for [TS]

  the purpose of building a hackintosh [TS]

  azure workstations or anything else have [TS]

  apple licensed the OSD clone makers even [TS]

  if they charge like three hundred [TS]

  dollars for like some you know large [TS]

  price for the OS it would still be [TS]

  pretty price competitive to go with a [TS]

  clone maker but that's probably the [TS]

  reason they're not going to do it now [TS]

  that being said you can look at what [TS]

  they're doing you know as mentioned [TS]

  earlier it is very noticeable that they [TS]

  are outsourcing some of their dongles to [TS]

  belkin they are outsourcing their new [TS]

  monitor to LG I think it's very clear [TS]

  that Apple is trying to get themselves [TS]

  out of businesses like they're they're [TS]

  exiting businesses they're excellent [TS]

  display business their ass on that thing [TS]

  somebody's darling outsourcing that like [TS]

  and like the belkin ethernet adapter box [TS]

  it looks like an apple product it looks [TS]

  like an apple product box [TS]

  it looks like the product itself like [TS]

  this is clearly like Apple is trying to [TS]

  get themselves out of these non-core may [TS]

  be unprofitable businesses [TS]

  it wouldn't surprise me if they actually [TS]

  did do some kind of weird partnership [TS]

  with IBM or something [TS]

  22 or you know HP or whatever to offer [TS]

  something that I mean it seemed it seems [TS]

  crazy to tell Mac people that apple [TS]

  would ever do is some kind of clone [TS]

  program again but if you look at what [TS]

  they're actually doing today that isn't [TS]

  totally out of the question now I still [TS]

  think it's incredibly unlikely I i do I [TS]

  i would not count on it because i would [TS]

  i would assume that if Apple wanted a [TS]

  computer like this to exist they would [TS]

  just make themselves but it there there [TS]

  is now president in and what they're [TS]

  doing in their lineup to effectively [TS]

  outsourced less interesting parts of [TS]

  their business to other companies to [TS]

  make it their problem whenever something [TS]

  needs service or to manage the margins [TS]

  or whatever else that's the most [TS]

  interesting part of their business to [TS]

  some people like the eye and hardware [TS]

  it's kind of like getting back to the [TS]

  hell guard thing like that they should [TS]

  be making that in-house busy as a [TS]

  even just as a motivational tool for [TS]

  their for their internal tech team and [TS]

  for their customers but i think it would [TS]

  have to be it couldn't just be like a [TS]

  licensing arrangement because it's not [TS]

  just that Apple wants to make like 200 [TS]

  boxing when they sell I there's a [TS]

  support burden to every new models out [TS]

  there to support with the OS and [TS]

  everything so I think it would have to [TS]

  be more of a partial ownership profit [TS]

  sharing type thing which would probably [TS]

  mean these machines would not be like [TS]

  the mac loans they wouldn't be less [TS]

  expensive for the same hardware they [TS]

  will be just as expensive as if Apple [TS]

  mated the only difference would be that [TS]

  you said that Apple outsources some [TS]

  portion of it and it's not like the [TS]

  belkin connector and like I said the [TS]

  early Mac groans you wonder how much of [TS]

  that is belkin's work and how much of it [TS]

  is Apple's a lot of the original macbook [TS]

  Matt clones were Apple reference designs [TS]

  modified and a lot of companies do that [TS]

  give you like a reference bored and then [TS]

  you can tweak it and everything but like [TS]

  for for the belt on the LG Display how [TS]

  much involvement that Apple have in the [TS]

  creation of those peripherals was it [TS]

  purely here you go companyyou're now [TS]

  allowed to make this here are the specs [TS]

  figure it out or did apple cooperate [TS]

  with them very closely surely for the [TS]

  software integration for the LG screen [TS]

  they had to do something [TS]

  was there any cooperation at the [TS]

  hardware level like you don't really [TS]

  know what goes on in these relationships [TS]

  but as i said before like in the [TS]

  monetary deals could be worked out and I [TS]

  would hope the apples today bargaining [TS]

  up from a position of strength and not [TS]

  from position of Michael Spindler what [TS]

  would make the arrangements so that is [TS]

  very profitable to apple and that the [TS]

  company that they're partying with you [TS]

  just feel itself lucky to even be [TS]

  allowed to work with apples apples so [TS]

  awesome and that apple would come out [TS]

  ahead on it financially while removing [TS]

  whatever burdens they feel are put on [TS]

  him i think by the way for the high-end [TS]

  is totally wrong move because Apple [TS]

  should totally be doing the high-end [TS]

  house because now we can discuss I think [TS]

  we also discussed in slack but i know [TS]

  i'm just doing is reiterating my whole [TS]

  car thing in seven different ways to get [TS]

  people to understand how this works and [TS]

  having them complained to me even Casey [TS]

  was like I don't buy my car because [TS]

  there's a high-end car from the same [TS]

  maker i don't have the discussion again [TS]

  but what would will go home I sound like [TS]

  yeah and slack [TS]

  I don't know you had the voice plugin [TS]

  and I'm laughs yeah yeah it's [TS]

  unfortunate but wow alright admitted for [TS]

  this week [TS]

  thanks lat 43 sponsors this week [TS]

  betterment 0 and hover and we will see [TS]

  you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in as it was accidental [TS]

  accidental John research Marco in kc [TS]

  would let go [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find the show know today p [TS]

  dot and if your twitter follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

  syracuse it [TS]

  sorry for the people waiting for service [TS]

  studio and switch i think we have exact [TS]

  actually exhausted all the follow-up and [TS]

  tangible topics related to the macro [TS]

  pronouncement on and i'm not going to [TS]

  take all the blame for this because [TS]

  people keep sending us feedback about it [TS]

  because it's not just it's like well you [TS]

  got to get off this macbook pro issue [TS]

  they keep the listeners are still [TS]

  talking to us about it but I think we're [TS]

  through it all [TS]

  so next week for sure unless something [TS]

  happens [TS]

  Microsoft service to do another switch [TS]

  what are they going to get to the [TS]

  fireworks factory that's a simpsons [TS]

  thing isn't it [TS]

  you got it new job the only reason I got [TS]

  it is because you've used that on it's [TS]

  like seven times it's not being way more [TS]

  than seven women that's what else is [TS]

  going on other than the obvious that we [TS]

  rather not discuss i will say you know [TS]

  that [TS]

  Thank You audience and you guys this has [TS]

  been nice to you know get my mind off of [TS]

  that stuff [TS]

  yeah i agree Grand Tours coming back not [TS]

  not this coming saturday friday but week [TS]

  from this coming friday then coming back [TS]

  as it already yeah sorry no no I that [TS]

  was a poor choice of words it's a it's [TS]

  starting when I i say coming back [TS]

  because I think of it as top gear again [TS]

  but but anyway that's that's a week from [TS]

  Friday so that's super exciting [TS]

  yeah you need to remind me of that over [TS]

  is it is a is Amazon only rec'd it's [TS]

  amazon i don't know when it will like [TS]

  what time of day it's happening but it [TS]

  is the 18th of november they're [TS]

  streaming one episode per week for six [TS]

  weeks and I believe there's going to be [TS]

  two seasons per calendar year so [TS]

  presumably offspring and a fall season [TS]

  since we're getting kind of fall season [TS]

  now i'm really looking forward to it [TS]

  should be good [TS]

  speaking of TV although i don't want to [TS]

  get onto depressing politics but one of [TS]

  the one of the analogies and then the [TS]

  jokes and the stocks that have been made [TS]

  and involving this election has another [TS]

  show black mirror which is a show ya UK [TS]

  i don't want to say it's a BBC show [TS]

  because then you get yelled at because [TS]

  it's not there's other places to me [TS]

  anyway whatever it's a show in England [TS]

  and it's like [TS]

  you guys remember amazing stories maybe [TS]

  you too young for that number to you but [TS]

  I've seen I've seen some of black mirror [TS]

  episodes and i think given what just [TS]

  happened it's going to be a long time [TS]

  before I'm in the mood to watch any more [TS]

  of them [TS]

  yeah so like amazing stories like the [TS]

  twilight zone is the older reference [TS]

  like every week there's a new episode [TS]

  and it's a site usually sci-fi related [TS]

  premise and there's no carryover [TS]

  characters is no you know through-line [TS]

  stories just like here's a little side [TS]

  it's like sci-fi short stories for TV [TS]

  and while I don't have a particular been [TS]

  to it and so did amazing stories which [TS]

  is a Spielberg ask thing black mirrors [TS]

  bent is sci-fi independent stories that [TS]

  are usually really depressing like it's [TS]

  black mirror like three of the title [TS]

  right and so like Marco said maybe not [TS]

  in the mood to watch them right now and [TS]

  black nerve me personally I find it a [TS]

  little bit silly and overblown because [TS]

  I've seen all these same ideas and [TS]

  stories before and then taken to the nth [TS]

  degree and it just gets a little [TS]

  ridiculous but sometimes this one once [TS]

  whatever i'm not a big fan of other [TS]

  people are but on the specific topic [TS]

  this current season black mera season 3 [TS]

  that maybe come out all at once not like [TS]

  the the grant orbits are not you know [TS]

  they make them ahead of time and it's a [TS]

  scripted show more scripted then [TS]

  hey way where there is one episode of [TS]

  this season of black mare this third [TS]

  season a black mirror which is like all [TS]

  the previous seasons just a grim [TS]

  terrible slog of overblown sci-fi but [TS]

  there's one episode but i think actually [TS]

  i watched it and I felt good after [TS]

  watching i'm not going to say it's happy [TS]

  and you can judge for yourself whether [TS]

  it is like you know the feel-good story [TS]

  of the century but i think it would be [TS]

  safe for people to watch even if you're [TS]

  feeling bad and that episode is Sanjana [TS]

  peril which I with my favorite episode [TS]

  of black mare ever which probably means [TS]

  that i just don't like black mare [TS]

  because it's at least black mirror of [TS]

  any black mare episode but i would [TS]

  encourage you if you're looking for a [TS]

  sci-fi short story on TV and don't want [TS]

  to be super depressed black mayor season [TS]

  three [TS]

  Sanjana para which is episode wait seven [TS]

  seconds we'll chat room to look up for [TS]

  me episode number [TS]

  4 episode number 4 case you beat them to [TS]

  it because he's listening to be in [TS]

  real-time cheating and there's a chat [TS]

  room and so what was the summary of this [TS]

  episode [TS]

  no no you gotta know anything about [TS]

  black mirror episodes you start watching [TS]

  them so nothing you want to tell us [TS]

  anything no you can't know everyone's it [TS]

  now [TS]

  no spoilers like they're my goodness [TS]

  idea might not my mistake [TS]

  so I figured who was shoot it was one of [TS]

  the new york city-based developers and [TS]

  I'm drawing a blank which one it was [TS]

  mine Brian I race head guilted me into [TS]

  watching one of the episodes black [TS]

  mirror and the one that I watched this [TS]

  was a couple years ago now was about the [TS]

  British Prime Minister being black [TS]

  episode one that's the first dog [TS]

  yeah that's I had no desire to back but [TS]

  not the tone that sets a tone for the [TS]

  show that is the appropriate tone for [TS]

  the show always is either except for san [TS]

  gennaro I'm not saying it's a bad show [TS]

  i'm just saying yeah I still watch that [TS]

  and I was like this is not for me [TS]

  nothing to do watch off season 3 and [TS]

  Mark are no no i I've i don't really i [TS]

  mean all the way through season two I [TS]

  think we watched all of season one at [TS]

  least I was a good thing like you can [TS]

  skip to any episodes anytime because [TS]

  there's no through lines yeah and just [TS]

  pick one out but I get some of the [TS]

  season three episodes are just so Graham [TS]

  like it just it's it's almost a parody [TS]

  of itself at this point but Sandra peril [TS]

  thumbs up now it's like it's the kind of [TS]

  show like it's so it's such a downer and [TS]

  so dark that that you you if you have [TS]

  anything bad or stressful going on in [TS]

  your life it's not a good show to watch [TS]

  and so I've had not a ton of [TS]

  opportunities where I really want to [TS]

  watch shows like that recently and [TS]

  that's not going to change the next few [TS]

  weeks that's for sure [TS]

  I said try this episode it is not up [TS]

  I'm i think he will watch it and not [TS]

  curse my name after you watch it i think [TS]

  it will make you feel better [TS]

  a high bar okay that's your idea of us [TS]

  feel you will improve your mood and okay [TS]

  i will give i will let anything get a [TS]

  part of the reason [TS]

  part of the reason and improves your [TS]

  mood is like the context was like wait [TS]

  this is a black mirror episode it should [TS]

  be terrible and cream and it's not I [TS]

  feel awesome about it's like you expect [TS]

  the worst then you get this thing that [TS]

  is like it like it like redeemed [TS]

  rest of black mirror briefly who would [TS]

  have thought that this episode would end [TS]

  with a recommendation of an uplifting [TS]

  black mirror episode [TS]

  yeah I was surprised as anyone I got to [TS]

  the end i even went to the intent to say [TS]

  maybe it's not actually uplifting and [TS]

  I'm reading it wrong and so you on the [TS]

  internet you're like no actually it's [TS]

  super dark here's the ending but the [TS]

  creators of the shower like no it's [TS]

  actually have left thing just accepted [TS]

  yeah no I mean I I wouldn't be opposed [TS]

  to watching uplifting one but the after [TS]

  having watched the very first episode [TS]

  like i said i decided it was not for me [TS]

  not to say it's not for you or anyone [TS]

  else it just wasn't for me i have enough [TS]

  to be depressed about 12 pressing the [TS]

  poor choice of words i have enough to be [TS]

  sad about [TS]

  I don't need to be sad watching [TS]

  television as well yeah that's what hit [TS]

  tonight for our current like casual [TS]

  series because we started the office [TS]

  tonight just like this we just need [TS]

  something that's not like even parks and [TS]

  rec is to political that looks like oh [TS]

  god you can't even do that yet just need [TS]

  something light that is just not gonna [TS]

  add to anything bad just watched some [TS]

  miyazaki movies which you've probably [TS]

  never seen any of you guys remember [TS]

  seeing anything that's correct yep [TS]

  if you don't show up you should be [TS]

  showing our total by this point this [TS]

  feel like you're neglecting your duties [TS]

  apparent yes turnaround is just you'll [TS]

  find it just find it and show it to Adam [TS]

  and the whole family can watch it [TS]

  together and you'll be happy [TS]

  yeah i downloaded millennium whatever [TS]

  whatever when it was when it was an [TS]

  old-timey exactly but close [TS]

  it's all it's all the same job that's [TS]

  all time yeah can you stay calm siracusa [TS]

  movies [TS]

  yeah that's why I know that works for me [TS]

  so i downloaded that circus the movie [TS]

  the Millennium whatever millennial [TS]

  whatever actually diem millennium [TS]

  actress which is probably millennial [TS]

  actors I don't even know Millennium [TS]

  Falcon that's that she's not a [TS]

  millennial she was born for me that oh [TS]

  my god it's not the one of the things [TS]

  that are like in the X shape is that [TS]

  right yes the y-wing the sick thing is [TS]

  we're gonna get so many emails and [TS]

  people thinking that were serious when [TS]

  were deliberately trolling John anyway [TS]

  I'm point is i downloaded that but like [TS]

  forever ago when you and Merlin talked [TS]

  about it and I saw him and watched yet [TS]

  so i need to get on that you mean you [TS]

  watch it legal and YouTube and it was [TS]

  legally available on YouTube [TS]

  yes I'm talking with commercials [TS]

  commercials [TS]