The Accidental Tech Podcast

194: Dark Night of the Soul

 

  we decided to schedule this week show [TS]

  directly against game seven right of the [TS]

  baseball series that's world series but [TS]

  only in the USA Canada to that doesn't [TS]

  really count on the world know they [TS]

  should call it the North American minus [TS]

  Mexico series i guess you could go that [TS]

  way i am currently probably to my own [TS]

  peril attempting to log into my slingbox [TS]

  from my mac and see if I can turn the [TS]

  game on and provide live updates for you [TS]

  Marco since i know you are deeply [TS]

  concerned about the score of game 7 you [TS]

  should so so this is just the basics [TS]

  obviously this means that each of the [TS]

  teams won three games so they're tied to [TS]

  have a tiebreaker game is at that that [TS]

  is correct and other than that I'd like [TS]

  to do is there anything special about [TS]

  how this game works there any rule [TS]

  changes like it and after a certain [TS]

  score is just a regular game [TS]

  I don't think there's any difference now [TS]

  ok outside of there's a there's some [TS]

  rule i forget what's what but one league [TS]

  can do what is a pinch-hitter designated [TS]

  hitter something all my god [TS]

  designated hitter or something like that [TS]

  and one Lee doesn't allow that i believe [TS]

  and i never understand the rules behind [TS]

  one that's permitted one that isn't it [TS]

  now I've heard people tell me that I [TS]

  should try to understand the infield fly [TS]

  rule is that the difference between the [TS]

  American League in the American League [TS]

  the National League and no it is not i [TS]

  don't believe anyway but yeah so the [TS]

  idea is when the whatever legal allows [TS]

  for this thing is considered to be at [TS]

  home this this hitter thing then they do [TS]

  the hitter thing I think it's a [TS]

  pinch-hitter is that right [TS]

  why am i explaining this I don't know [TS]

  what the hell I'm talking about so the [TS]

  two USA baseball leagues can't even [TS]

  agree on the rules is this like a [TS]

  Republican Democrat kind of thing is [TS]

  what like what different islands in the [TS]

  Galapagos they evolved separately we [TS]

  should probably cut all of that because [TS]

  that was painful to talk about let alone [TS]

  listen to yeah that's probably not going [TS]

  the cleveland indians and the Chicago [TS]

  Cubs are playing in the final game of [TS]

  the world series as we speak and as we [TS]

  are recording it is top of 4th it's tied [TS]

  one to one and and I don't really have a [TS]

  preference he wins I guess the Cubs [TS]

  since they haven't wanted forever but [TS]

  whatever they really still [TS]

  oh my god they're really still called [TS]

  the Indians and they really still have [TS]

  that logo in 2016 [TS]

  that's correct that is rough wow so I'm [TS]

  gonna I was gonna give live updates but [TS]

  given that having slingplayer running on [TS]

  my mac is causing my imac's fans to go [TS]

  at full tilt [TS]

  I'm just going to go ahead and [TS]

  disconnect and turn that off you know [TS]

  what it solved here yeah there we go [TS]

  tell me Marco would solve that problem [TS]

  you know apple still barely does make [TS]

  one computer where the difference in fan [TS]

  audible noise levels between full load [TS]

  and idol is not distinguishable by the [TS]

  human ear most of the time in most rooms [TS]

  other the macbook adorable that doesn't [TS]

  have a fan that one [TS]

  mm all right to it can do that is [TS]

  because that's always a full but i'll [TS]

  just use all use the computer that's [TS]

  more modern I'll go get my iPad Mini [TS]

  hold on the whole industry before [TS]

  barcode i kill each other we should [TS]

  probably start with some follow-up and [TS]

  there was an interesting thing posted [TS]

  over the last few days as one would [TS]

  expect the iFixit folks have gotten [TS]

  their hands on a macbook escape and it's [TS]

  funny that I call it a macbook escaped i [TS]

  believe i stole from Marco because on [TS]

  that page it says and I'm quoting read [TS]

  on for our teardown of the macbook pro [TS]

  late 2016 parentheses escape edition [TS]

  paranthesis my question to you too is is [TS]

  this simultaneous invention or did we [TS]

  get an uncredited citation they're like [TS]

  is this really our invention that [TS]

  they're just not citing us source well [TS]

  first of all it's not our invention [TS]

  pretty sure it is the invention whoever [TS]

  in the chatroom suggested that just [TS]

  because we picked out of the chatroom [TS]

  the name that we liked and then repeated [TS]

  on the [TS]

  show does not mean that we invented that [TS]

  nature sometimes appropriate there's no [TS]

  that's works for ever suggested in the [TS]

  chatroom actually coined the term and we [TS]

  were merely adopting it for a discussion [TS]

  and I'm assuming it's simultaneous but i [TS]

  just want to do that but marco was the [TS]

  one who pulled out of the chat room and [TS]

  i'm assuming marketable that I the chat [TS]

  room and didn't invented himself because [TS]

  on the show he was reading things that [TS]

  room [TS]

  yeah it was it before last week's show [TS]

  the people in the chat were discussing [TS]

  various names and they were calling it [TS]

  like escape escape the book pro and [TS]

  effing book pro and a few other [TS]

  variations i'm not entirely sure who [TS]

  said if anyone actually said macbook [TS]

  escape as the as the official name but [TS]

  well I've been corrected though on on [TS]

  Twitter and other places [TS]

  apparently the official name for this [TS]

  computer is macbook pro in parentheses [TS]

  13-inch late 2016 23 bolt three ports [TS]

  and parentheses so from now on I have to [TS]

  call it that macbook pro 13 nov 2015 23 [TS]

  ports not macbook escape because the [TS]

  former is a way better name apparently [TS]

  I'm disappointed that the name they [TS]

  hinted at in the presentation wasn't the [TS]

  actual name because they said like with [TS]

  the with function keys so is like Magnum [TS]

  appropriate seized with function cute [TS]

  but that is not obviously the official [TS]

  name apparently is the official name is [TS]

  that giant mouthful is that even that [TS]

  much better though like what would that [TS]

  have been like this is still not a name [TS]

  that anybody will know the good thing [TS]

  about the parentheses with function keys [TS]

  you could apply it like any mac model [TS]

  that comes with the keyboard with [TS]

  function he's on it now you could say [TS]

  like you know people extended keyboard [TS]

  with function keys exactly like the [TS]

  whole reason like you know the reason we [TS]

  give this cute name everyone said I [TS]

  should stop naming things because [TS]

  originally i was one of the people and I [TS]

  don't even know how was the first but I [TS]

  was a popularizer of the name macbook [TS]

  one for the one poor 12-inch MacBook [TS]

  when a chemical that is similar problem [TS]

  where they release this brand-new [TS]

  computer that is radically different [TS]

  from everything else they make and it's [TS]

  called it macbook and like there was [TS]

  already a computer named macbook not [TS]

  even that long ago and lots people still [TS]

  have them and so like it was it was a [TS]

  vague name and ambiguous name and [TS]

  everyone was going through his [TS]

  contortions online like press articles [TS]

  to say like the new [TS]

  macbook with the 12 inch retina macbook [TS]

  the what macbook with one USB port over [TS]

  like everyone's going through this [TS]

  contortions trying to unambiguously [TS]

  state which computer they were talking [TS]

  about because apples names aren't good [TS]

  enough like they're not precise enough [TS]

  and this is one of those cases to and by [TS]

  the way I do regret not calling it the [TS]

  macbook to because in so many ways yes [TS]

  secretary didn't really like that but i [TS]

  have a few people tell me that it's just [TS]

  adding confusion because now it sounds [TS]

  like it's the sequel or something and [TS]

  and and it is a pro yeah well it's an [TS]

  air [TS]

  I mean really let's be honest it's it's [TS]

  a macbook air with retina screen it's at [TS]

  once again I wanted that and I said it's [TS]

  gonna be amazing it's gonna sell ton of [TS]

  them and I stand by that at the early [TS]

  reviews say it is pretty good it's not [TS]

  as good as I would like it to be in some [TS]

  ways but you know overall pretty good i [TS]

  think they I think it's probably going [TS]

  to be very successful if anybody can [TS]

  justify the price hike for it [TS]

  that's that's a big if but you know if [TS]

  they can do that will be fine but this [TS]

  is another of those computers where look [TS]

  at the contortions of of how people are [TS]

  trying to unambiguously refer to this [TS]

  computer in their various reviews and [TS]

  press articles and blog posts and tweets [TS]

  and there is no good short name for the [TS]

  unambiguously says that refers to so I [TS]

  stand by my choice to call the macbook [TS]

  escape because it is short and and [TS]

  fairly unique i don't think anyone could [TS]

  ever think that many other computer and [TS]

  they might not necessarily know it means [TS]

  this one but I think enough geeks know [TS]

  enough of our audience knows enough of [TS]

  my audience on Twitter and stuff knows [TS]

  that i can say macbook one and macbook [TS]

  escape and people who the people who are [TS]

  listening [TS]

  almost all of them will know what i mean [TS]

  by that as opposed to saying 13-inch [TS]

  macbook pro which now could mean three [TS]

  very different computers all of which [TS]

  are still for sale [TS]

  just wait until next year when they had [TS]

  the touch bar to the macbook escape but [TS]

  it still has two ports instead of four [TS]

  then with that you're going to call [TS]

  that's not the macbook escape anymore [TS]

  Michael escape with touch bar that's a [TS]

  clue [TS]

  so I have an important question for you [TS]

  Marco are you sticking with the macbook [TS]

  one name or are you going to adopt the [TS]

  cgpgrey macbook adorable [TS]

  if i'm going to call it a name beyond [TS]

  its correct name of macbook or 12 inch [TS]

  macbook then i'm going to call it a [TS]

  netbook one it's been around longer [TS]

  I is probably I think it's more [TS]

  recognizable and I think it's like [TS]

  honestly I think it's a better name [TS]

  sorry great but it's less of a value [TS]

  judgment to yeah exactly i'm but I mean [TS]

  you know it really simply speaking like [TS]

  it has now been well you know that [TS]

  computer came out about what a [TS]

  year-and-a-half ago almost two years ago [TS]

  it has now been long enough that i will [TS]

  fairly soon not need to call the macbook [TS]

  one anymore that I might even be not [TS]

  like because you only need these these [TS]

  like pet names when Apple's regular [TS]

  names like are still ambiguous and [TS]

  confusing in people's minds when this [TS]

  for when the macbook one first came out [TS]

  and it's called a macbook again like [TS]

  lots of people still had memories of the [TS]

  regular macbook and what was called that [TS]

  not that long ago ever want to talk [TS]

  about the new computer and there was no [TS]

  good way to and unambiguously do that [TS]

  but now if you say if you say the [TS]

  macbook now that's still honestly does [TS]

  kind of refer to the whole family out to [TS]

  some degree and people might be confused [TS]

  a little bit by that but if you just say [TS]

  macbook or you could say 12-inch MacBook [TS]

  I think you're okay for the most part [TS]

  now so i probably won't need to use the [TS]

  name macbook one much anymore i might [TS]

  use anyway because i like it but I don't [TS]

  think I really need to end much anymore [TS]

  whereas referring to the macbook pro [TS]

  13-inch late 2016 to thermal three ports [TS]

  is still in need of a nice short [TS]

  unambiguous name that's terrible [TS]

  alright moving on marketing rights and [TS]

  to tell us that when John speaks of [TS]

  millions of millennials typing on a [TS]

  screen that actually includes mark when [TS]

  I strictly speaking of and marc has [TS]

  cited some thing on wikipedia which [TS]

  means it must be true and Millennials [TS]

  apparently start with those born in 1982 [TS]

  and I speak for marketing saying both of [TS]

  us are were born in nineteen eighty-two [TS]

  so strictly speaking we are old [TS]

  Millennials see that's BS though like [TS]

  the Generalissimo when I i feel like you [TS]

  know generations don't just flip on a [TS]

  dime on December 31st at New Year's like [TS]

  that after you two were born that was [TS]

  that they close the door like our well i [TS]

  was gonna say this is like the Upstate [TS]

  of like dove time or generations right [TS]

  you know it's always the people younger [TS]

  than you that are that are the [TS]

  Millennials and so I actually do agree [TS]

  with Marco I don't feel like I qualifies [TS]

  this entitled self-obsessed generation [TS]

  says the guy on his podcast but I don't [TS]

  think it's too far after we were born i [TS]

  would probably put it like 1990 ish but [TS]

  whatever the baby boomers or [TS]

  self-obsessed the the Millennials aren't [TS]

  self-obsessed when the Millennials are [TS]

  are coddled and overconfident and have [TS]

  never had to try for I think those are [TS]

  the stereotypes and jen xri disaffected [TS]

  and cynical and terrible [TS]

  yeah I guess it's very well anyway so [TS]

  yeah apparently mark and I are strictly [TS]

  speaking Millennials which is a [TS]

  interesting and perhaps they have [TS]

  realization for the two about the [TS]

  problem is there has that whatever name [TS]

  for the generations that are younger [TS]

  than Millennials like this competition [TS]

  for what those names we called please [TS]

  don't send us the a million names you've [TS]

  heard we can look them up to [TS]

  but anyway one hasn't won yet so 12 name [TS]

  wins it will be more convenient when we [TS]

  want to make fun of the youngins to use [TS]

  that name I use Millennials because to [TS]

  me they are the youngins but this person [TS]

  is right you two are my nails as well I [TS]

  see I I feel like when you know [TS]

  generations are kind of like they're [TS]

  kind of like a like a bell curve shape [TS]

  as the time goes on like it defines a [TS]

  certain era but as you get close to the [TS]

  edges of the boundaries of the areas [TS]

  they become a lot less clearly defined [TS]

  so if you stay here forever and honestly [TS]

  I think for a generation with this [TS]

  stupid but if you're going to refer to [TS]

  them I feel like if you say millennial [TS]

  you're referring to kind of like the the [TS]

  hump the peak of that wave and so by [TS]

  calling us any of the generations when [TS]

  we are literally the boundary year [TS]

  between 220-year lon generation since I [TS]

  feel like it doesn't really say anything [TS]

  like are we really that different from [TS]

  the people who are literally six months [TS]

  over the most like not really you know [TS]

  so it's the when you get towards the [TS]

  edges it doesn't really mean much but [TS]

  refer to generations at all is kinda [TS]

  dumb and is only used for people to like [TS]

  yell about how we're the kids are these [TS]

  days that's exactly how we're using it [TS]

  though and that is that is the point [TS]

  yeah all right now William radish road [TS]

  in and pointed out to us [TS]

  hi [TS]

  exactly the context but I think maybe it [TS]

  was marco was saying no you know I don't [TS]

  need a super-fast GPU or something that [TS]

  somebody was saying something along [TS]

  those lines sort of us and and William [TS]

  rights in to say well you may not think [TS]

  you need to superfast GPU because you're [TS]

  maybe not playing games or anything like [TS]

  that but its GPU used by the same image [TS]

  editing apps to do some of the [TS]

  calculations required in order to mess [TS]

  with your pictures taken on your camera [TS]

  that's all gpu-based is it not [TS]

  well some of it is and it isn't to say [TS]

  that it doesn't matter but much of it is [TS]

  still very much CPU bound and the things [TS]

  that are generally where I spend most of [TS]

  my time waiting for the cpu are are not [TS]

  the things that usually helping with you [TS]

  know i mean i still i have my imac with [TS]

  this is a fancy GPU i have my 15-inch [TS]

  macbook pro at the fancy GPU and they do [TS]

  things at roughly the same speed like in [TS]

  Lightroom with the same kind of files [TS]

  like it's not the imax should be its GPU [TS]

  is really helping the things that I'm [TS]

  waiting on the imac should be way faster [TS]

  than the macbook pro but it's not it's [TS]

  it's similar speeds so and annie and i [TS]

  can look I can see istat menus that all [TS]

  the cpu cores are being pegged during [TS]

  this operation I'm waiting for [TS]

  so really it's you know it might help [TS]

  many too many operations of stuff but [TS]

  the things i'm complaining about it [TS]

  doesn't really help and again it's nice [TS]

  to have but you know not necessarily at [TS]

  certain costs in certain roles so it may [TS]

  know my argument last week was that I [TS]

  wish they had a GPU the basically the no [TS]

  GPU option in the 15-inch still there [TS]

  appear to be good reasons why they don't [TS]

  anymore like related to intel's [TS]

  integrated GPU being not as good anymore [TS]

  I in those quad-core configs whatever i [TS]

  don't know i don't know details of that [TS]

  but something like that but anyway I I [TS]

  regret that they don't have the option [TS]

  of no discrete GPU anymore but oh well [TS]

  what you can do that that's kind of my [TS]

  attitude about macbook pro in general is [TS]

  oh well what we gonna do because it's [TS]

  like there's so much about that's a [TS]

  little bit weirder off or not quite for [TS]

  me [TS]

  we'll get to it [TS]

  and we will respond to this week by [TS]

  Harry's go to Harry's dot-com / ATP [TS]

  right now to claim a free trial set and [TS]

  free post shave balm that's Harry's [TS]

  dot-com / ATP Harry's is the best value [TS]

  inn razor blades in my opinion now big [TS]

  razor companies they have this annoying [TS]

  habit of putting out new models every [TS]

  few years and raising their already high [TS]

  prices even higher [TS]

  unlike them Harry's is not believe it up [TS]

  charging which is why they made their [TS]

  razors even better and they're keeping [TS]

  prices exactly the same and hairy cells [TS]

  five blade razor cartridges similar to [TS]

  what you might have seen from big brands [TS]

  they now include a softer flex hinge for [TS]

  more comfortable glide nature blade for [TS]

  hard-to-reach places a lubricating strip [TS]

  any textured handle for more control [TS]

  when it's wet and this is still the [TS]

  amazing value have always been just two [TS]

  dollars per blade compared to four [TS]

  dollars or more you'll pay for the big [TS]

  brands and by only the factory in [TS]

  Germany where they make the blades [TS]

  Harry's can produce high-quality razors [TS]

  themselves sell them online for half the [TS]

  price and it comes all the conveniences [TS]

  of online shopping [TS]

  you don't have to like go to a drugstore [TS]

  get into the anti shoplifting case and [TS]

  like that and you can just order what [TS]

  you want and gets delivered to you [TS]

  they have great customer service if you [TS]

  ever need it it's wonderful [TS]

  check out Harry's two dollars per blade [TS]

  and this is not a safety razor blade i [TS]

  have used those they're fine but I'm a [TS]

  big fan of the five blade razor [TS]

  cartridge that simple as that that's [TS]

  what I like Harry's is the best value in [TS]

  that business [TS]

  bar none two dollars per plate cartridge [TS]

  so go to Harry's calm / ATP to learn one [TS]

  of the special offer for fans of the [TS]

  show you get a bottle of Harry's post [TS]

  shave balm added to your order for free [TS]

  by visiting harrods.com / ATP go there [TS]

  today and get your free trial set and [TS]

  you're free post shave balm once again [TS]

  Harry's calm / ATP thanks a lot too [TS]

  hairy for sponsoring our show [TS]

  alright moving on a few people have [TS]

  written into say that there are [TS]

  forthcoming external GPU boxes for new [TS]

  macbook pros so bizon tech apologize but [TS]

  pronounced that wrong has a bison box [TS]

  three external graphics card for mac [TS]

  turn your back into a powerful [TS]

  workstation up to 10x boost in games and [TS]

  professional apps and so this looks like [TS]

  almost a mini towers just box it looks [TS]

  quite large i'm sure it's actually not [TS]

  that you can sit adjacent to your [TS]

  macbook pro and connect via presumably [TS]

  thunderball three and put any number of [TS]

  different gpus in it you can spend 21 or [TS]

  no I'm sorry [TS]

  27 yeah twenty-seven hundred dollars on [TS]

  a box that has a graphics card in it in [TS]

  that graphics card only apparently has [TS]

  windows support but nonetheless you [TS]

  could spend basically half a macbook pro [TS]

  again getting an external graphics card [TS]

  so John is this your solution to an [TS]

  excellent mac-based gaming platform they [TS]

  have been a bunch of external GPU [TS]

  options ever since the the advent of [TS]

  Thunderbolt and there are two main [TS]

  problems is one is not probably not a [TS]

  problem anymore but used to be back in [TS]

  the early days of thunder bolt and that [TS]

  is that although Thunderbolts basically [TS]

  gives you the ability to have sort of [TS]

  you know pci bus that extends outside [TS]

  your computer hit the original [TS]

  Thunderbolt did not have as many lanes [TS]

  as top and graphic cards took when you [TS]

  plug them into like a gaming pc your pc [TS]

  or something and that only matters if [TS]

  you were gonna actually use all that [TS]

  bandwidth between the card and the cpu [TS]

  and everything and you could argue that [TS]

  it would make a difference and you can't [TS]

  measure ever go back in the day the [TS]

  battle is insufficient i'm assuming with [TS]

  Thunderbolt 3 that is either close [TS]

  enough not to matter anymore and [TS]

  surpassed its not a problem anymore but [TS]

  the real problem with external GPU [TS]

  solutions for me personally why I'm not [TS]

  interested in them is because i have no [TS]

  faith that Apple supports them in any [TS]

  way shape or form [TS]

  bingo and it's not that I need apple to [TS]

  make the box I just need apple to say oh [TS]

  yeah this is a thing you can do with [TS]

  your mac i do not doubt that they can [TS]

  get this to work and i do not doubt that [TS]

  Apple has built support for external [TS]

  cpus into the operating system is [TS]

  letting them do this what I doubt is is [TS]

  this going to be a supportive [TS]

  configuration for me some OS update [TS]

  going to get rid of it is it like [TS]

  especially we're going to spend you know [TS]

  eight hundred dollars for a really fancy [TS]

  GPU is it a thing that's going to be [TS]

  useful for its purpose like I don't want [TS]

  to buy it and then two years later like [TS]

  I can't use it anymore because the [TS]

  drivers aren't supported or some bug or [TS]

  some new kernel changing out like i need [TS]

  apples blessing essentially for me to [TS]

  feel safe to pursue this because it you [TS]

  know otherwise but i'm just making a [TS]

  gaming pc like it at least then I know [TS]

  that some supported by everybody and [TS]

  it's just my own my own challenge to a [TS]

  battle and get to work or you know I [TS]

  have a good driver updates from the the [TS]

  video card company so I'm personally [TS]

  very wary of solutions like this because [TS]

  i say as i sit in front of my [TS]

  eight-year-old computer because I like [TS]

  to you know use things for a long time [TS]

  and I really do want Apple to bless them [TS]

  in some way doesn't just blessing for [TS]

  apple doesn't mean it's going to be [TS]

  supported forever obviously but at least [TS]

  I'll know that I'm not more on the [TS]

  fringes for other people who have a you [TS]

  know a lesser version to risk your [TS]

  interested in trying something cool this [TS]

  definitely looks interesting and I would [TS]

  probably do this if I was more of a [TS]

  hobbyist hardware tinker but right now [TS]

  i'm not interested in external gpus [TS]

  until Apple gives me the not about them [TS]

  honestly if I was more of a hobbyist [TS]

  hardware tinker I just build a [TS]

  hackintosh or as you said just build a [TS]

  gaming pc like that because you do most [TS]

  your gaming and windows anyway right but [TS]

  yeah so this is the the other angle is [TS]

  like the thing that's cool about is not [TS]

  here I get to have a cool GPU is the [TS]

  cool thing is you get to have a laptop [TS]

  that works pretty well that you can also [TS]

  sit down [TS]

  plop it down your desk and suddenly [TS]

  becomes way more powerful like so it's [TS]

  the the hybrids kind of like the old [TS]

  thunderbolt display with the laptop like [TS]

  you could just buy two separate machines [TS]

  but it's kind of neat to have one [TS]

  machine with all your stuff on it [TS]

  suddenly gets amazing new capabilities [TS]

  when you sit down you disconnect little [TS]

  skinny wire that is the for me the novel [TS]

  interesting hardware hacker angle not [TS]

  just the fact that you can have a good [TS]

  GPU because you're right you just get a [TS]

  game if you just want to keep you get a [TS]

  gaming pc and there you go it's it's the [TS]

  you know that the novelty of having [TS]

  external powerful things enhancing the [TS]

  power of your laptops and tons of pc [TS]

  laptops to this as well this is not [TS]

  a unique thing to happen anything like [TS]

  that it's just you know Apple as far as [TS]

  I'm aware has never even acknowledged [TS]

  this is a thing which is really weird [TS]

  considering they have to provide some [TS]

  support for it to work at all [TS]

  yeah i mean that this the story that we [TS]

  get from like people like a tipster and [TS]

  other various sources it really does [TS]

  sound like Apple really did do like all [TS]

  of the work necessary to make their own [TS]

  5k display and at some point they were [TS]

  probably planning on it to be a product [TS]

  and so they they put all this work to [TS]

  make the mat to make Sierra support this [TS]

  kind of display over this kind of cable [TS]

  make it support external gpus over that [TS]

  kind of cable and everything else and [TS]

  then instead now they basically give it [TS]

  all the LG who was probably making the [TS]

  panel for it to begin with LG ships that [TS]

  is their monitor and apples tells you [TS]

  like to tell it secondhand on twitter [TS]

  that they're a display business that's [TS]

  something that's the future followed by [TS]

  then we will discuss its the event this [TS]

  whole it's a weird story I there has to [TS]

  be something more to it than that is a [TS]

  weird story I i will just stay here in [TS]

  case you don't get to it again that I [TS]

  think the idea of of giving of hand this [TS]

  over to LG and telling people oh if you [TS]

  want what was basically the Apple 5k [TS]

  display you have to now buy it from LG [TS]

  that's not as good that's not good [TS]

  that's not a very good solution because [TS]

  then that means that we have to order [TS]

  from LG we have to get LG's warranty on [TS]

  it we have to get LG support if anything [TS]

  goes wrong and all of the end of course [TS]

  you know LG's exterior casing which is [TS]

  kind of videos and all of that is worse [TS]

  than if we would have just bought it [TS]

  from apple [TS]

  I'm so it's it's not a great situation [TS]

  like one person on Twitter point I'm [TS]

  sorry forgot I forgot who was like it up [TS]

  till now or up until one Apple stop [TS]

  selling the Thunderbolt Display few [TS]

  months ago if you bought a mac and the [TS]

  Thunderbolt Display and applecare for [TS]

  the mac the applecare also cover the [TS]

  display so you you had your monitor [TS]

  covered for three years just like you [TS]

  had a computer which three years [TS]

  warranty on / monitors is usually not [TS]

  what they go for I think usually your [TS]

  one year for most things like that and [TS]

  so again it's just late and everything [TS]

  everyone wrong with it as John you know [TS]

  you could bring it to an apple store and [TS]

  you could have you could have them do [TS]

  you could ship it apple and now like [TS]

  when it sold by somebody else especially [TS]

  something like LG who has like pretty [TS]

  miserable service in most things then [TS]

  you have to you know called [TS]

  god-knows-who ship it god-knows-where [TS]

  pay god knows what with God knows how [TS]

  long to get back and it's it's not [TS]

  nearly as nice as if Apple was just sold [TS]

  this themselves and so I do kind of I i [TS]

  I'm a little scared for apples featured [TS]

  a dedication to desktops if only because [TS]

  that seems like a really weird move if [TS]

  you care about things like the mac pro [TS]

  at all [TS]

  well we don't know how long i'll just [TS]

  warrant is for all we know they have a [TS]

  10-year warranty enough so but what I [TS]

  don't entirely get what makes this new [TS]

  display so unique because when i was [TS]

  looking at getting potentially a monitor [TS]

  for work before i got that 4k that i'm [TS]

  using now I was looking at the dell 5k [TS]

  and that works with like my existing [TS]

  macbook pro that's a few months old now [TS]

  on one cable so why was it so special [TS]

  that that this LG like they were made a [TS]

  big deal about it being over one cable [TS]

  it what am I missing here is it seems [TS]

  like this is something we could already [TS]

  do [TS]

  all right over for setting this up we'll [TS]

  move it up and we'll talk about it now [TS]

  oh you're breaking that you're breaking [TS]

  the flow of what I wanted to talk about [TS]

  in the other 1i which actually made [TS]

  sense but that's a that's my job huh [TS]

  that's fine i got up for what you just [TS]

  alluded to the 5k display is that nearly [TS]

  patel tweeted and then just was recorded [TS]

  a bunch of places that Apple confirmed [TS]

  to him though they're out of the sand on [TS]

  display business and that night that [TS]

  after i heard that treat I had I would [TS]

  have trouble getting to sleep because i [TS]

  was so upset about the prospect of there [TS]

  being no apple monitor but it was [TS]

  totally are you serious I'm serious but [TS]

  i was also upset about what had gone [TS]

  down that day because here's the deal [TS]

  like everything marcasite about album [TS]

  ours is true in this like the reason i [TS]

  buy them and you know I like out the [TS]

  case looks like how its warranty is part [TS]

  about like everything matches are all [TS]

  silly reasons but it's like that's why [TS]

  that's why by Max and part of the reason [TS]

  I max I like all this looks together and [TS]

  so I don't like the idea there's not [TS]

  going to be not monitor [TS]

  but what really bugs me is that apple [TS]

  wood back channel on background send me [TS]

  off the record whatever confirm secretly [TS]

  conveyed by tweet that they're not [TS]

  making monitors anymore they're out of [TS]

  the standalone display business if Apple [TS]

  is going to be adding standalone display [TS]

  business they should say so as a company [TS]

  like you don't have to say we're never [TS]

  gonna make one in a million years but [TS]

  just say don't wait for us to release a [TS]

  5k monitor because we have no plans to [TS]

  do so this is the one I don't understand [TS]

  why Apple can't just say that instead [TS]

  they have to do this thing which is like [TS]

  well how much do I trust that do I can i [TS]

  find my own back channels into someone [TS]

  who still spoke to someone who knows [TS]

  something and Apple to tell us all you [TS]

  know we're not making them anymore i [TS]

  know the apples friends is that here's a [TS]

  great LG monitor just do it right [TS]

  I feel like there should be doesn't have [TS]

  to be in the keynote but it should be on [TS]

  the record statements from apple like [TS]

  not just one of them are not just a [TS]

  little turbulence it should be common [TS]

  knowledge just like it's common [TS]

  knowledge that he's selling a new line [TS]

  of computers also say and by the way [TS]

  Apple like like an apple off the printer [TS]

  business didn't like just stop making [TS]

  printers and just tell people about the [TS]

  printers but then that will say guess [TS]

  what Apple's not making printers anymore [TS]

  like that wasn't a secret mystery [TS]

  everybody knew you know what that [TS]

  bothers me immensely [TS]

  so anyway also because the news is bad [TS]

  and part of me still wants to cling to [TS]

  the idea that like maybe they'll change [TS]

  their mind next year and that's why [TS]

  they're not saying anything [TS]

  blah blah as for the specific the LG [TS]

  thing i really want someone to tell one [TS]

  of these apart because we don't know [TS]

  what's inside there is there a GPU [TS]

  inside there that is communicating with [TS]

  through these new features Sierra or is [TS]

  there not to get the cases question is [TS]

  you know multi-stream multiple no [TS]

  displayport 1.2 streams are some other [TS]

  technique to drive a big monitor is that [TS]

  what the deal was using cuz I don't [TS]

  think Apple invented this multi-stream [TS]

  thing maybe it's just a standard that [TS]

  existed and this is the first time Apple [TS]

  supporting into their notebooks or is it [TS]

  this weird external GPU thing we don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  as for random stuff the tips to promise [TS]

  a hub that has never been delivered said [TS]

  about how about how the Duchess now just [TS]

  not saying they'll uses two cables and [TS]

  it's very buggy any [TS]

  I about this display with the the GPU [TS]

  order [TS]

  well you know the Apple Apple didn't [TS]

  ship that so like and i can say we've [TS]

  gotten conflicting reports of what [TS]

  exactly apple has ever plan to ship or [TS]

  you know or anything like that [TS]

  I this is this all just random here so [TS]

  all we have to go on is what what Apple [TS]

  actually delivers as products and and [TS]

  what they say publicly and right now [TS]

  they're not delivering a monitor and [TS]

  they're sort of semi kind of probably [TS]

  saying that I'm making monitors anymore [TS]

  we're just hugely disappointing because [TS]

  i think that almost as much as not [TS]

  updating the mac pro in three years is [TS]

  sort of a abandonment of one particular [TS]

  market segment this segment that the [TS]

  segment that buys you know signifies the [TS]

  mac pro basically like it's it's all [TS]

  part of the same thing as saying we're [TS]

  not going to make a standalone monitor [TS]

  and if we ever make another mac pro just [TS]

  count your lucky stars and you're gonna [TS]

  have to find another monitor for because [TS]

  you don't care about like and in the [TS]

  many of the same thing [TS]

  it's kind of like saying the desktop Mac [TS]

  experience is the imac and other [TS]

  computers if we decide to make them or [TS]

  not that's fine like i don't understand [TS]

  how Apple can be so dedicated to the mac [TS]

  as it claims to be unless their [TS]

  conception of the mac does not include [TS]

  anything that doesn't come with a [TS]

  monitor which is that may be the case [TS]

  but like for me as a fan of max don't [TS]

  come with monitors for a variety of [TS]

  reasons canceling the monitor for me [TS]

  made me feel worse than not doing the [TS]

  mac pro for three years like it made me [TS]

  for the first time really truly doubt [TS]

  whether they were ever going to make [TS]

  another mac pro I don't care about the [TS]

  money like canceling the monitor that to [TS]

  me so here I am saying there's not gonna [TS]

  be any more displays right and many [TS]

  people point out like how can you [TS]

  believe the tipster is obviously all [TS]

  completely false information whatever I [TS]

  mean the tipster i don't i don't care [TS]

  whatever he's just it's fun diversion [TS]

  but finding out from three million patel [TS]

  through tweet from Apple back channels [TS]

  that Apple itself is telling people [TS]

  you're out of the sand on display [TS]

  business just crushed me [TS]

  it crushed me to the point where i was [TS]

  immediately trying to consider if they [TS]

  come out with another mac pro I don't [TS]

  think i'm going to buy one [TS]

  I should just get an imac [TS]

  cannot live in a world right I'm gonna [TS]

  wait until june next year to get a new [TS]

  mac pro and then connect the third ugly [TS]

  third-party fivehead monitor to it [TS]

  I don't know if I could do it and I was [TS]

  like well if you can't do it then what [TS]

  are you waiting for one you just buy an [TS]

  imac why you sitting in front of the [TS]

  ancient computer it's lower than your [TS]

  phone now it's just ridiculous [TS]

  just know this this monitor thing is [TS]

  totally destroyed me [TS]

  so you're saying in in this hypothetical [TS]

  world where they release a new mac pro [TS]

  let's just go just completely out of [TS]

  left field let's say they bring back the [TS]

  cheese grater but new insides [TS]

  everything's modern and beautiful and [TS]

  the fans are silent and everything is [TS]

  perfect and it's made for John siracusa [TS]

  but because there's no apple external [TS]

  display you would not buy that [TS]

  hypothetical computer that's what you're [TS]

  saying I'd have to think about my guess [TS]

  is this is what i was up at night [TS]

  thinking about it like what can I do it [TS]

  and I got to say it's mostly also [TS]

  because i know that there's no prospect [TS]

  of any mac pro until a long time from [TS]

  now like that it'll be even more waiting [TS]

  if they came out with the mac pro [TS]

  tomorrow like I would be less upset but [TS]

  I know there's no macro coming out [TS]

  tomorrow [TS]

  no my proton next week no mac pro coming [TS]

  out next month it's going to be another [TS]

  long wait and I don't you know I've been [TS]

  waiting a really long time right I don't [TS]

  know if I can wait that long for the [TS]

  reward at the end of it to be whatever [TS]

  the hell decided the mac pro is now and [TS]

  oh by the way find some monitor you can [TS]

  use with good luck [TS]

  I don't like it you're saying that you [TS]

  wouldn't buy this perfect John siracusa [TS]

  mac that I've just invented a thin air [TS]

  because you don't like the look of the [TS]

  LG monitor I possible it's possible that [TS]

  does not compute in my mind is all parts [TS]

  for this thing I have never had a [TS]

  non-apple monitor I've always had a [TS]

  series of Apple monitors John let me [TS]

  give you a hint it it's okay they do [TS]

  they aren't as pretty in terms of the [TS]

  bozell or bezel depending on who you're [TS]

  talking went with but they work just [TS]

  fine and in fact in some ways I prefer [TS]

  my LG monitor work because it's much [TS]

  more mad than my imac is in every other [TS]

  measurable way up for the imac but i'm [TS]

  sitting in front of a mad apple monitor [TS]

  right now you really it's older than [TS]

  your mac for up [TS]

  yeah jacket but I [TS]

  I mean to each their own if this is the [TS]

  way you want to live your life than [TS]

  power times and i like that i set up i'm [TS]

  considering this is what this is what [TS]

  the display cancellation it did to me it [TS]

  in the end I think I can probably stick [TS]

  it out and I wouldn't buy the current [TS]

  imac if I was waiting for an imac [TS]

  probably i would wait until they revise [TS]

  it with at least a new GPU in it but [TS]

  like what I'm trying to do is get myself [TS]

  to the point where like I think you'd be [TS]

  okay with that [TS]

  my wife's got a five-year mark it's like [TS]

  three feet over there I use it all the [TS]

  time the minor is really nice [TS]

  it's way faster than my computer it's [TS]

  got a one terabyte SSD the GPU is faster [TS]

  than the one in my computer like the [TS]

  more i SAT there and use that 1i say [TS]

  what are you waiting around her macro [TS]

  for you know its gonna not going to be [TS]

  good for your purposes anyway like the [TS]

  things they get me come back to his like [TS]

  you know hear the fan on my wife's imac [TS]

  knowledge stuff was trying to to figure [TS]

  out should i when the next next time as [TS]

  revised some use your eyes early next [TS]

  year or something so I just buy it and [TS]

  not bother waiting for this mac pro [TS]

  should i buy it and then sell it if I [TS]

  like the mac pro better [TS]

  I've just been waiting so long for this [TS]

  mac pro and the cancellation monitor has [TS]

  been the strongest signal to me that [TS]

  Apple is not interested in selling me [TS]

  the computer that i want to buy anymore [TS]

  I mean as if the three-year way for the [TS]

  macros and signaling off but who knows [TS]

  they could they could come out with a [TS]

  new mac pro with their new conception of [TS]

  what the macro is supposed to be and I [TS]

  seriously doubt it will be anything like [TS]

  the cheese grater you describe but [TS]

  either way if there's no if there's no [TS]

  display with it it's really [TS]

  disheartening to me [TS]

  yeah I teach their own but I just [TS]

  man that seems bananas to me but I mean [TS]

  did you do you [TS]

  I'm just I i canna now i realize that i [TS]

  haven't i'm not i'm not coming down that [TS]

  I'm definitely gonna get an imac i'm [TS]

  just like--that's what i was thinking [TS]

  after this announcement I feel like I've [TS]

  come down a little bit from now but the [TS]

  on the other side of it like that the 5k [TS]

  imac is really good it's really really [TS]

  good computer like that like like I said [TS]

  compared to the computer have now it is [TS]

  better in every possible way and it's [TS]

  like all but the GP is not going to be [TS]

  as big as the one in [TS]

  the matter how do you know what maybe [TS]

  the new conception of the mac pro is to [TS]

  have the same GPU is the the macbook pro [TS]

  I don't know what the new mac pro is [TS]

  going to be nobody does it just i don't [TS]

  so I'm at this point I'm still just [TS]

  waiting because I'm not gonna fight the [TS]

  current imac but like it's weird to be [TS]

  of two minds like I wish Apple had [TS]

  confirmed more strongly and officially [TS]

  that they're out of the sand on display [TS]

  business because then they could have [TS]

  line of questioning and all the [TS]

  interviews are doing is like why you got [TS]

  the standing spray business people like [TS]

  to buy them you can add a hundred bucks [TS]

  and get some margin do you really sell [TS]

  so few of them that you don't want to do [TS]

  that do not consider that part of the [TS]

  whole system do you think you can make a [TS]

  good monitor i mean your hold on this [TS]

  whole p3 thing in the color calibration [TS]

  and the retina and all that stuff you're [TS]

  all about that except for your computers [TS]

  don't come with a monitor which you say [TS]

  fend for yourself in the world in the [TS]

  land of third-party monitors maybe we'll [TS]

  recommend one good luck with warranty [TS]

  and repairs and by the way it's ugly I i [TS]

  agree with you John like the that it the [TS]

  lack of new monitor has also may be [TS]

  unreasonably upset because I agree that [TS]

  I think it does signal more than [TS]

  anything so far that there probably [TS]

  won't be another mac pro because again [TS]

  like if they were gonna make a new mac [TS]

  pro why would they not make a new [TS]

  monitor to go to to go with it like do [TS]

  they really want the only option for mac [TS]

  pro buyers to be third-party plasticky [TS]

  crappy monitor like is that really what [TS]

  they want to be the only option for [TS]

  their highest end computer I I imagine [TS]

  that's that that's not really their [TS]

  style you know that that's a very strong [TS]

  indicator that as much as i want the new [TS]

  mac pro to happen and as much as like [TS]

  you know a tipster says that they're [TS]

  working on sky like east if in some [TS]

  capacity like I don't know what else [TS]

  that before accepting mac pro but [TS]

  they've worked on previous Mac for [TS]

  updates and not release them [TS]

  I you know if they were apparently works [TS]

  out of 5 can monitor and not released it [TS]

  so if they if they really don't want to [TS]

  make their own displays I really have to [TS]

  look at their actions and not what i [TS]

  want to be true and not what rumors say [TS]

  are true or not a tipster say are true [TS]

  have to look at just what they've done [TS]

  publicly and what they've not important [TS]

  what they're not done publicly and I [TS]

  just have to come to the conclusion that [TS]

  it is very unlikely that we'll ever see [TS]

  a macpro again [TS]

  because if that if if that was not the [TS]

  case we would see something about it [TS]

  they would either have updated it all [TS]

  this time or they would still be in the [TS]

  display business because that's pretty [TS]

  related or something else like I again [TS]

  like this could be wrong [TS]

  I would love for to be wrong I would i [TS]

  want a mac pro I don't want the best [TS]

  computer that can run the OS i use to [TS]

  only have 4 cpu cores or to have loud [TS]

  fan noise when I actually drive all [TS]

  those cores or to have diluted in the [TS]

  other ways that I'm actually compared to [TS]

  Mac Pro's I want there to be a higher [TS]

  ceiling and it just it it will it will [TS]

  really crush me like a morally and my [TS]

  enthusiasm and in this company and the [TS]

  land the mac platform as a whole because [TS]

  you know what the mac platform is really [TS]

  good on pro hardware it is designed for [TS]

  pro hardware mac OS scales really well [TS]

  two tons of cpus multiple gpus all sorts [TS]

  of cool like opencl stuff that never [TS]

  really took off but it still has it all [TS]

  in there like the mac platform is [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  it is such a good professional [TS]

  workstation OS and to have their no [TS]

  longer be professional workstation [TS]

  hardware that can even run it that will [TS]

  make me very very sad but again i have [TS]

  to look at what Apple's actually doing [TS]

  and it just it sure looks like there's [TS]

  never going to be other mac pro now that [TS]

  being said i am going to keep hope up [TS]

  that there will be 1 i'm gonna keep [TS]

  hoping for it until next summer and if [TS]

  we don't get on my next summer when [TS]

  other skylake II work station platforms [TS]

  start shipping from up from like dell [TS]

  and HP and stuff if we don't get one [TS]

  then I will consider it over but i am [TS]

  going to hold up hope until then even [TS]

  though my hopes are now we're pretty low [TS]

  I'm about the way for the tipster like [TS]

  the the supposed to 5k monitor with GE [TS]

  GPU that's why I want to see the [TS]

  teardown of the LG was assuming is not [TS]

  entirely fabricating this one [TS]

  explanation is what you're actually [TS]

  seeing is the internals of the LG [TS]

  display inside Thunderbolt case inside [TS]

  Apple because that's how Apple was [TS]

  working on their OS side of work [TS]

  me on this thing you know i mean it [TS]

  doesn't mean that it was ever a product [TS]

  that Apple was ever gonna ship you know [TS]

  so anyway we have to see what's inside [TS]

  this LG Display before we know that what [TS]

  the problem is those rumors are like I [TS]

  would find it also like market would [TS]

  find even more depressing if they [TS]

  actually developed this thing internally [TS]

  man never went anywhere it would be much [TS]

  more explicable that was just you know a [TS]

  development mule for the internals [TS]

  actually went to the LG display and it [TS]

  was there so Apple could do it software [TS]

  side of it which which again is perverse [TS]

  it's like if you're going to do this [TS]

  cooperation with LG and let them sell [TS]

  the monitor why let them get the margin [TS]

  on the monitor like they're already [TS]

  making the panel's all your stuff like [TS]

  just wonder if you get take the margin [TS]

  you can make a nice case for that [TS]

  monitor maybe hike up the price 1,500 [TS]

  bucks you think we won't pay an extra [TS]

  1,500 bucks over the price LG of course [TS]

  we will like you're not gonna sell a lot [TS]

  of them but why you know what will get [TS]

  to this when we talk about the the [TS]

  macbook pro later but it it smells like [TS]

  nickel and diming it's like well we [TS]

  don't sell enough at least to care [TS]

  totally i acknowledge they don't sell [TS]

  one of these for it to be a blip [TS]

  so we can save a little money by having [TS]

  LG do it because we don't care about the [TS]

  money it's meaningless know somebody's [TS]

  will be zero dollars and it's a lot of [TS]

  hassle for qualifying and supporting and [TS]

  doing warranty repairs and shipping [TS]

  boxes like I totally see how this is a [TS]

  money loser for Apple went up you know [TS]

  when you look at everything is involved [TS]

  in it but sometimes you have to do [TS]

  things like that to support the you know [TS]

  the use case of your top end users who [TS]

  again maybe are not profitable anymore [TS]

  but I feel like they're an important [TS]

  part of keeping you know like I don't go [TS]

  through the whole hello car thing again [TS]

  but that whole angle the monitor is part [TS]

  of it and selling your monitors part of [TS]

  that when like and apples it apple is [TS]

  still in lots of businesses that are [TS]

  also low margin or not very necessary [TS]

  for most of the customers more things [TS]

  like they still sell their Wi-Fi routers [TS]

  and their time capsules like why why is [TS]

  Apple is sell an outdated wireless [TS]

  router and they'll hear you right like [TS]

  they're going to cancel those products [TS]

  though rather they kill those in the [TS]

  monitors like look at like Apple II all [TS]

  these people who try to justify what [TS]

  Apple's doing to try to make excuses for [TS]

  apple which you don't need to do you can [TS]

  almost always look at other parts of the [TS]

  Apple product line or very recent [TS]

  history and [TS]

  you can get contradictions to that are [TS]

  counter-argument to that like in the [TS]

  case of the monitor thing like the apple [TS]

  doesn't need to be in the monitor [TS]

  business you know they don't need to be [TS]

  any business like they used to be the [TS]

  iphone business it's apple can do just [TS]

  fine cutting out monitors but then why [TS]

  are they not cutting out everything why [TS]

  that cutting out ipods apple still makes [TS]

  an entire line of ipods and ipods are [TS]

  actually holding back progress in things [TS]

  like itunes like imagine if Apple could [TS]

  totally cut itunes ipod support that [TS]

  could free up itunes you free up so much [TS]

  engineering resources and legacy support [TS]

  an old stuff and you know it could [TS]

  accelerate a possible future which [TS]

  itunes has its functions broken up into [TS]

  different apps that are actually good [TS]

  like they have tons of reasons to not [TS]

  sell ipods anymore but they still sell [TS]

  them because of a handful of reasons are [TS]

  good enough to keep them going [TS]

  I don't not really sure what those are [TS]

  but i'm sure people are buying them in [TS]

  something to some degree right Wi-Fi [TS]

  routers and stuff like I I don't expect [TS]

  them to get a frequent updates i mean [TS]

  they're already very outdated and yeah [TS]

  who knows [TS]

  and they're not really a great deal [TS]

  anymore but they still sell them for [TS]

  some reason they still sell time [TS]

  capsules for some reason I mean talk [TS]

  about an ancient technology the time [TS]

  capsule is an outdated wireless router [TS]

  with a giant spinning hard drive in it [TS]

  they still sell that but they decided [TS]

  that monitors aren't worth any more like [TS]

  that that makes no sense to me unless [TS]

  they're killing off their entire desktop [TS]

  lines at the imac you know I'm more [TS]

  thing to it is even just about desktops [TS]

  lots of people connect external monitors [TS]

  to their macbook and macbook air macbook [TS]

  pros so it like even if they kill the [TS]

  desktops they should still have displays [TS]

  that are sold for laptop customers like [TS]

  the last one the the thunderbolt and an [TS]

  LED display before that they were [TS]

  designed for laptops they had little max [TS]

  a charger and everything that would [TS]

  charge laughs little g1 right these are [TS]

  obviously doesn't solely obviously this [TS]

  is still a business that it that exist [TS]

  even if you kill the desktop so i don't [TS]

  know it makes no sense [TS]

  so we're saying that because [TS]

  his Apple got out of the display [TS]

  business that is the canary in the coal [TS]

  mine for not I mac desktops and that [TS]

  could be i don't think i agree but that [TS]

  could be well it's one of many you know [TS]

  it's it's in the context of they haven't [TS]

  not only have not even updated the mac [TS]

  pro in three years and the mac mini and [TS]

  I think as long or roughly as long but [TS]

  the blood the last update to both of [TS]

  those products made them worse in [TS]

  certain key ways and that they have not [TS]

  been updated they haven't even mentioned [TS]

  them like they weren't even honest like [TS]

  when Apple should like the the slide of [TS]

  the mac family weren't even on the slide [TS]

  like the they're basically they're still [TS]

  selling them totally unchanged for three [TS]

  years not a single update to like gpus [TS]

  or anything like nothing has changed so [TS]

  that is it you know in the context of [TS]

  that where you have this very high-end [TS]

  machine that they do a major redesign of [TS]

  its kind of more attractive and more [TS]

  expensive they talk about innovation a [TS]

  lot and they never talk about it again [TS]

  that's that's not good [TS]

  sure so in the context of that them also [TS]

  saying you know what we're not going to [TS]

  make our own version of this 5k display [TS]

  which you know technically would be [TS]

  perfect for the next model of mac pro [TS]

  like if they if they made apple version [TS]

  of this display and launched at the same [TS]

  time as a macpro next year sometime [TS]

  that'd be amazing and so many people [TS]

  would buy that combo which would [TS]

  probably cost like seven thousand [TS]

  dollars but you buy it because it's we [TS]

  waited so long and it'd be so good but I [TS]

  again I just I don't know if I'm if I'm [TS]

  honest with myself I really don't think [TS]

  it's going to happen i don't think the [TS]

  lack of a monitor is any particular [TS]

  indicator for for the the desktop is it [TS]

  that you know I still think this is [TS]

  their chance to update the mac pro but [TS]

  like Marco pointed out it's more of an [TS]

  indicator that Apple Care is less about [TS]

  configurations that involve an external [TS]

  display because you know that had all [TS]

  the monitors at having a little MagSafe [TS]

  connector and it was clear it's like [TS]

  most people are gonna buy this monitor [TS]

  buying it because what they have a [TS]

  laptop when they sit down at the desk [TS]

  they want a bigger screen than is [TS]

  available on the laptop that's what [TS]

  these screens are 40 and by the way they [TS]

  also connect the desktop max but nobody [TS]

  cares right and that the aesthetic and [TS]

  this is me just me personally that [TS]

  aesthetic of this is the main thing [TS]

  you're looking at when using a computer [TS]

  is you're looking at the screen like [TS]

  what is the max look like back in the [TS]

  original mac the whole thing was one [TS]

  thing the screen the floppy drive the [TS]

  power supply you know eventually the [TS]

  hard drive [TS]

  everything was all in one eventually [TS]

  you're not looking at the computer part [TS]

  anymore except in the case the imac [TS]

  words on one right here your look what [TS]

  you're looking at is a screen and then [TS]

  you've got these tower computers your [TS]

  mac mini for you know for the desktop [TS]

  use cases and giving up on the monitor [TS]

  I'm surprised even Johnny I would allow [TS]

  this means that anybody who wants a [TS]

  bigger screen is available on a laptop [TS]

  is not going to be looking at an apple [TS]

  thing and I feel like it's not like oh I [TS]

  don't have a mac anymore just because [TS]

  the screen is an apple screen or [TS]

  whatever it's just like that whole that [TS]

  whole vibe of having an entire system [TS]

  that all matches and all works together [TS]

  and that is that has the highest [TS]

  guarantee of compatibility and [TS]

  supportiveness over the years and is the [TS]

  most integrated with you know whatever [TS]

  weird buttons Apple puts on whatever [TS]

  weird keyboard control they have are [TS]

  always going to work with the modern all [TS]

  that stuff and LG is totally integrated [TS]

  like that now which i emphasizing the [TS]

  keynote and maybe Apple will keep the [TS]

  update but maybe Apple lose interest and [TS]

  be like oh if you bought that old LG one [TS]

  if it's up to LG to update us with the [TS]

  drivers are like who knows like it seems [TS]

  like it would be less supportive but at [TS]

  it it's just giving up on that whole [TS]

  vibe of having all apple stuff it's part [TS]

  of the reason that i personally like [TS]

  buying max and taking that reason away [TS]

  makes me less enthusiastic about getting [TS]

  a shiny new mac if then i also have to [TS]

  wade into the world of of third-party [TS]

  monitors or before pictures one third [TS]

  party monitor is literally the only one [TS]

  that works with their stuff in the [TS]

  integrated way that I wanted to work [TS]

  that Adam is it makes me less [TS]

  enthusiastic to buy new mac i guess you [TS]

  spend a lot more time looking at the [TS]

  bezel of your monitors that I do because [TS]

  at that thing just by looking at a 4k LG [TS]

  monitor for now 40 to 45 hours a week [TS]

  and I mean in a perfect world I'd like [TS]

  two of them side-by-side or even a more [TS]

  perfect world i guess i should say a [TS]

  couple of Apple monitors i don't [TS]

  disagree with you that Apple monitors [TS]

  would be better in principle but I can't [TS]

  say that I look at the bezel of this [TS]

  thing particularly often in that I think [TS]

  to myself well you know life sucks [TS]

  because this isn't a shiny piece of [TS]

  aluminum to each their own this is why [TS]

  we're different people but that just [TS]

  seems but manages to me that it used to [TS]

  be a pc you they're so used to looking [TS]

  at a lot of black plastic grandmas but I [TS]

  guess I I don't view this as so [TS]

  egregious and I mean and again to be [TS]

  clear I don't think that this LG monitor [TS]

  that i'm looking at 45 hours a week is [TS]

  pretty i don't and i think it's [TS]

  relatively ugly and I there's there's [TS]

  problems with it doesn't have wide color [TS]

  which to be honest I still don't see the [TS]

  difference that i can tell even my [TS]

  iphone4 white color but whatever I I it [TS]

  doesn't like color the the amount on it [TS]

  that comes with it it doesn't adjust [TS]

  height adjust its it's stationary static [TS]

  which is annoying [TS]

  it doesn't pitch 90 degrees which i [TS]

  never do but it'd be nice to have the [TS]

  option for some reason so there's plenty [TS]

  of things I don't like about it but the [TS]

  end of the day all I'm looking at is the [TS]

  things on the screen and in not Apple [TS]

  not doing a monitor to me doesn't [TS]

  necessarily mean they don't care i mean [TS]

  look at the iphone 7 that a lot of [TS]

  people a ton of people think that they [TS]

  charge and listen to music at the same [TS]

  time I know if that's true or not but a [TS]

  lot of people seem to think it and if [TS]

  you go to the apple accessories apple [TS]

  iphone accessories page [TS]

  sure enough there is a lightning audio [TS]

  in charge cable so it's one lightning 22 [TS]

  lightning you know who makes that [TS]

  belkin and if Apple really gave a crap [TS]

  about the iphone i guess they should [TS]

  make that two right i mean it's it it's [TS]

  not i'm going to leave to give a crap [TS]

  about the is I'm not likely to give a [TS]

  crap about the max just they took my [TS]

  particular use case like I one thing [TS]

  that they're giving up on that they [TS]

  don't care as much about is the holistic [TS]

  aesthetic because I forget about desktop [TS]

  then there notice a computer that's only [TS]

  laptops the old Apple you cared enough [TS]

  about the overall aesthetic of like the [TS]

  system that they can put in their [TS]

  product shots and that their ideal [TS]

  customer [TS]

  by to make giant expensive monitors that [TS]

  as people in general point out always [TS]

  way more expensive than equivalent [TS]

  monitors for the same pals like again [TS]

  granted right with little magsafe things [TS]

  to charge your monitor dangling off the [TS]

  end of the like it was it was a laptop [TS]

  accessory and why who in the world would [TS]

  buy a laptop accessory from apple at a [TS]

  ridiculous price because it looks really [TS]

  nice [TS]

  like that's that's it because it matches [TS]

  and it looks nice right and at the end [TS]

  they were happened to be usually good [TS]

  monitors and I came out and they were [TS]

  convenient and all those stuff but like [TS]

  it's it's apple saying yeah it did look [TS]

  nice and it was cool but the coolness [TS]

  was not worth being in this business to [TS]

  us anymore and the coolness to me is [TS]

  totally worth it and i would like to [TS]

  give the money and they won't take my [TS]

  money and I you know that it makes me [TS]

  sad is it a good business idea is it [TS]

  better to get out of that business it [TS]

  was a money-loser and most people don't [TS]

  care I don't know it's not doesn't [TS]

  really say anything about where they [TS]

  care about the mac or whatever it just [TS]

  means that their priorities don't align [TS]

  with mine this particular issue and I'm [TS]

  sad about it right that we spend a lot [TS]

  longer talk about that I expected my [TS]

  goodness I don't longer thinking about [TS]

  that than I expected but I couldn't [TS]

  believe I'm like I seriously i was up [TS]

  and that my wife is already sleeping [TS]

  next to me and I'm like what i can do it [TS]

  mighty much am I even getting a mac pro [TS]

  just give up like yeah this is terrible [TS]

  it was little a little dark night of the [TS]

  soul when I found that monitor was [TS]

  canceled [TS]

  well it's not wanted an update that I [TS]

  the mac pro for three years here I'm [TS]

  just happily hoping like up bro i'm sure [TS]

  the updated eventually i'm just waiting [TS]

  patiently look at me be patient no more [TS]

  monitors like no no my thoughts and [TS]

  prayers are with you in this difficult [TS]

  time a damn freaks rights that Apple has [TS]

  told him that the macbook pro maxes out [TS]

  at sixteen 16 gigs of ram because LPD [TS]

  r3's limit is 16 gigs of chip and Apple [TS]

  uses it because of a performance to [TS]

  energy ratio and then building on that [TS]

  there was a I guess an interview or [TS]

  somebody asked sure that doesn't email [TS]

  to email the nightlife Schiller said and [TS]

  I'm quoting to put more than 16 gigs of [TS]

  fast ram into a notebook designed at [TS]

  this time would require a memory system [TS]

  that consumes much more power [TS]

  rain wouldn't be efficient enough for [TS]

  notebook i hope you check out this new [TS]

  generation macbook pro really is an [TS]

  incredible system so that is supposedly [TS]

  and other people come to this conclusion [TS]

  as well that is supposedly why Apple is [TS]

  not shipping more than 16 gigs ram in [TS]

  the macbook pros which LOL full-stop I [TS]

  mean that's a bummer if i were to buy [TS]

  one today I would absolutely want more [TS]

  than 16 would i need more than 16 [TS]

  probably not but I'd want it and that's [TS]

  today and sometimes people want these [TS]

  computers to last for five years that's [TS]

  not unusual so this this is a bummer but [TS]

  i don't really see how this is apple's [TS]

  fault and i'm assuming one of you is [TS]

  going to tell me well i would definitely [TS]

  pay money for the thing that lasts two [TS]

  hours that has 11 geeks over you know 80 [TS]

  million gates around not two hours but [TS]

  yeah well so before we even get to that [TS]

  angle there has been much support for [TS]

  the idea that this is not apple's fault [TS]

  out there down you know this is the [TS]

  basics of just like look the the the [TS]

  specific cpu they're using with the the [TS]

  good GPU whatever the good the iris pro [TS]

  graphics or whatever doesn't have a [TS]

  chipset that supports more memory [TS]

  capacity and blah blah blah like this is [TS]

  a thing [TS]

  one other thing that people brought up [TS]

  surprisingly think of showing the [TS]

  lengths people will go to to make [TS]

  excuses for apple is the head there is a [TS]

  fa has a restriction of like a hundred [TS]

  watt hours battery is right and that [TS]

  Apple can't make up a battery bigger [TS]

  than that at you know which I don't even [TS]

  know if that's true first of all the [TS]

  second of all let's just assume industry [TS]

  and then they followed that up by saying [TS]

  and that's why the new MacBook Pros have [TS]

  a 76 one hour battery what we a second [TS]

  there is that what they're saying is [TS]

  yeah they could add that extra [TS]

  20-something wat hours but that wouldn't [TS]

  be enough to power the memory system [TS]

  subsystem required to support 32 years [TS]

  of friends I think the actual issue as [TS]

  with a lot of Intel stuff is not that [TS]

  you can't have a laptop that is also [TS]

  pretty small and light that supports 30 [TS]

  days of rampant pretty sure del cells [TS]

  one that's not that much bigger than [TS]

  that you know it's thicker upgraded its [TS]

  not that much thicker and it supports 32 [TS]

  gigs of ram and he uses [TS]

  the sixth generation intel chip you know [TS]

  that the you know it's not it's not kb [TS]

  lake or whatever i'm pretty sure it's [TS]

  it's skylight once but but but I'm also [TS]

  pretty sure it's not the particular sky [TS]

  like chips that app allows users with [TS]

  the big honkin embedded GPU with the [TS]

  easier and all that other crap so I [TS]

  still put this mostly on Apple because [TS]

  they insist on using it only a [TS]

  particular stream the best trained to be [TS]

  fair they always want the best of the [TS]

  best ones with the best and better GPU [TS]

  because a lot of the stuff and mac OS [TS]

  uses the GPO for things right so they [TS]

  want the best of the best and if the [TS]

  best-of-the-best isn't available they [TS]

  won't ship the other kind of what I was [TS]

  thinking about is the way to potentially [TS]

  solve this with the with the smallest [TS]

  number of sacrifices in the short term [TS]

  until you know another ship comes out [TS]

  that doesn't is ship the intel cpu with [TS]

  either the crappy hit the crappy one the [TS]

  not the one that doesn't have the fancy [TS]

  embedded GPU in it because you're [TS]

  putting a discrete GPU and everything [TS]

  anyway and do it the old-fashioned way [TS]

  where you just always use discrete GPU [TS]

  and yes that would slaughter battery [TS]

  life and now you can support three gigs [TS]

  of ram which is a slaughter battery life [TS]

  even more and yes then you have to make [TS]

  the thing three millimeters thicker and [TS]

  then you'd probably have to make it a [TS]

  separate model and then why we have [TS]

  accepted that the separate model is just [TS]

  as we are transitional thing like the [TS]

  fat macbook pro for people who need all [TS]

  this crap and I just gets right back to [TS]

  the original argument which is that's [TS]

  not what Apple wants to do whatever so [TS]

  in the end I don't think this is that [TS]

  big a deal because i think actually in [TS]

  this case given the constraints put on [TS]

  them by Intel they probably made the [TS]

  right choice because what they're [TS]

  designing this macbook pro case i assume [TS]

  the 15-inch macbook pro case will be [TS]

  with us for free a pretty long time I [TS]

  don't expect them to shave another two [TS]

  millimeters off next year I expected [TS]

  this case to be the guts to be swapped [TS]

  out of it and new guts to be put into it [TS]

  right and if it just so happens that [TS]

  Intel doesn't give them anything they [TS]

  can fit in this case with this much [TS]

  battery with regional battery life it is [TS]

  a better choice to limit the 16 to keep [TS]

  the battery life and what it is like [TS]

  it's a better choice economically [TS]

  speaking and for uniformity it would be [TS]

  a better choice for customers who have [TS]

  very demanding to all to make that other [TS]

  model just for them but boy that's [TS]

  asking a lot of a company that is trying [TS]

  to narrow things down and it hasn't [TS]

  updated the mac pro in three years to [TS]

  make a special one-off model just for [TS]

  this generation of intel cpu because it [TS]

  can support 32 gigs of ram that is [TS]

  thicker and has more battery and uses a [TS]

  different arrangement of cpu and GPU and [TS]

  also still gets worse battery life [TS]

  that's just not a thing that Apple is [TS]

  interested in doing so if they're not [TS]

  interested in doing that like 16 gigs of [TS]

  ram is embarrassing for the people who [TS]

  don't buy it because it can't support 32 [TS]

  I feel for them in the same way I feel [TS]

  for people who want mac pros and who won [TS]

  external monitors but it is in keeping [TS]

  with that what Apple has been doing to [TS]

  its product line and i think they are [TS]

  there they're hitting the fat part of [TS]

  the curve there [TS]

  most people don't need more than that it [TS]

  is better to have a lighter thinner [TS]

  thing i have lower power requirements so [TS]

  this is exactly the same vein as [TS]

  everything else we talked about Apple [TS]

  not making hardware for this very narrow [TS]

  set of people who are very demanding and [TS]

  this case it is partially explicable by [TS]

  the availability of the kinds of cpus [TS]

  they can put it but it still makes all [TS]

  the set that's over talking about the [TS]

  show we're not talking about Apple's [TS]

  doomed and how this is a bad computer [TS]

  and people shouldn't buy we're totally [TS]

  talking about how a bunch of nerds who [TS]

  want the best of the best are sad about [TS]

  the choices apples making yeah because [TS]

  like here's here's why [TS]

  like some people have expressed you know [TS]

  bewilderment you know why are so many [TS]

  people so upset about the new macbook [TS]

  pros and the thing is like Apple makes [TS]

  one type of kind of laptop now really [TS]

  and that they make the the the ultra [TS]

  thin light the ultra portable all of [TS]

  their laptops now are in this category [TS]

  like you know it used to be not that [TS]

  long ago that most computer [TS]

  manufacturers have a different laptop [TS]

  lines for disabled basically different [TS]

  size weight and performance classes so [TS]

  you have like the thin light which by [TS]

  today's standards would be considered [TS]

  commonly heavy but you know back then [TS]

  basically you have the open and lights [TS]

  that were like you know exactly what it [TS]

  sounds like [TS]

  but as a result they would be usually [TS]

  slower you know more limited and [TS]

  everything and you kind of have like the [TS]

  mainstream line kind of in the middle [TS]

  and you have the desktop replacement [TS]

  which it's like you [TS]

  no that the big heavy ones that have [TS]

  like you know the the very highest and [TS]

  cpus cpus and stuff you could fit in any [TS]

  reasonable size laptop and and basically [TS]

  Apple only makes one of those now [TS]

  basically everything apple makes is a [TS]

  thin light and the reason why so many [TS]

  people get upset every time they they [TS]

  change or don't change anything with [TS]

  mostly but when the changes happen is [TS]

  that you know you can making a thin [TS]

  light requires you to cut lots of things [TS]

  and to limit lots of things and to not [TS]

  address lots of what everyone thinks our [TS]

  edge cases or no as you said John little [TS]

  narrow slices at the market [TS]

  the problem is this is kind of a [TS]

  20-month that the main problem here is [TS]

  like you look at the list of things that [TS]

  got worse between the last macbook pro [TS]

  and this one obviously things got better [TS]

  you know and weight forward batteries [TS]

  certain things got better right but [TS]

  certain things were either cut or got [TS]

  worse certain you know ports are no [TS]

  longer there the SD card reader is no [TS]

  longer there [TS]

  the there you know that the Ramsey did [TS]

  not get raised to what people want and [TS]

  everything any individual one of these [TS]

  excuses for any individual one of these [TS]

  problems can can be justified are [TS]

  excused in some way usually the that [TS]

  goes with because of either like well we [TS]

  couldn't fit more in this [TS]

  couldn't fit more in this [TS]

  super thin light low-power computer [TS]

  which is kind of a self-imposed problem [TS]

  because they don't make one that isn't [TS]

  super thin light and and low-power or [TS]

  you can justify these things by saying [TS]

  well we we cut the you know SD card [TS]

  reader whatever it is or we cut the hdmi [TS]

  port because only some little percentage [TS]

  of the user base used it [TS]

  the problem is that the little [TS]

  percentage of the user base that use the [TS]

  hdmi port does not completely overlap [TS]

  with little change the user base that [TS]

  use the SD card slot and so on and so on [TS]

  so if you look at the the sum of all of [TS]

  the little limitations and things that [TS]

  have been added to this and additionally [TS]

  by the way the price hikes don't help so [TS]

  you have like the not small percentage [TS]

  of the user base who is very unhappy or [TS]

  actually has to make a different [TS]

  decision now because of the price hike [TS]

  so basically you add all these [TS]

  percentages up and while it may seem [TS]

  that any one of the downsides might only [TS]

  affect a small percentage of the user [TS]

  base a large percentage of the user base [TS]

  is affected by one of them like just eat [TS]

  you you can't name is no simple stats [TS]

  like you can't say like everyone is [TS]

  affected by the removal of the hdmi port [TS]

  but lots of people are affected by one [TS]

  of the removals on this computer is [TS]

  different for everybody and a proline [TS]

  like it you know historically the [TS]

  highest-end laptops would have the [TS]

  fewest limits because they could they [TS]

  had they had lot they had larger cases [TS]

  they usually larger screens they were [TS]

  they were bigger they were higher priced [TS]

  they they sold in small quantities to [TS]

  more demanding markets and so there was [TS]

  room both physically and in profit [TS]

  margin and everything else there was [TS]

  room for more ports higher-end things [TS]

  higher water stains and everything and [TS]

  so to have the even the pro machine be [TS]

  this limited in so many ways and to have [TS]

  so many of the potential or current or [TS]

  actual buyers of this machine being [TS]

  disappointed by one thing that got worse [TS]

  about can fit compared to the previous [TS]

  ones that is why so many people are mad [TS]

  because that's usually you don't usually [TS]

  do that in high-end permissions usually [TS]

  things don't get extremely more research [TS]

  active at the high end usually the high [TS]

  end is where you go because whatever one [TS]

  considers like designing for the future [TS]

  and being forward-looking and everything [TS]

  that's all done too low it like when the [TS]

  macbook one came out we all said you [TS]

  know well that's that's not really [TS]

  really very compromised machine a lot of [TS]

  ways but we can just say well you know [TS]

  what it's not for you so you don't have [TS]

  to buy it and that worked for like you [TS]

  know a year and a half until now the [TS]

  compromises for the macbook one have now [TS]

  mostly been spread to the entire line of [TS]

  macbook so now you can't just say that's [TS]

  not for you anymore now it's like well [TS]

  if you buy if you still want to use mac [TS]

  OS at whenever your current laptop dies [TS]

  you need another one [TS]

  you're gonna have these restrictions on [TS]

  you that's it like if the combination of [TS]

  like the all those stats adding up to be [TS]

  like you know almost everyone is [TS]

  affected by one of these things compared [TS]

  to also now the the new lack of choice [TS]

  that we really have about a lot of these [TS]

  factors like if Apple work to make a [TS]

  look and one of the ways they could [TS]

  address this they still sell the old one [TS]

  now they did this also when they [TS]

  introduced the the retina macbook pro in [TS]

  2012 the very first round about 15 [TS]

  different from 2012 they launched for [TS]

  believe also 22 or 24 hundred bucks [TS]

  something like that and that's what [TS]

  which is higher than the previous one so [TS]

  they kept on the old one to hit a price [TS]

  point but it's something else [TS]

  they updated the internals of the old [TS]

  one as well to match the new one so [TS]

  whatever I think forget what cpu [TS]

  generation whatever before as well who's [TS]

  the one before that right when Wendy [TS]

  2012 redesign happened last design in [TS]

  this lineup they kept the old one but [TS]

  they updated the guts so that it was if [TS]

  you didn't care about the retina screen [TS]

  and the end of thinner and lighter nests [TS]

  of it you could still get all your old [TS]

  stuff in the old one with new guts this [TS]

  time they're doing the same thing where [TS]

  you can still get the old one if you [TS]

  don't care about the new advances and [TS]

  everything but they didn't have the guts [TS]

  and you gotta think about you know that [TS]

  the first of all kind of a bummer [TS]

  second of all why the honest reason is [TS]

  probably because they just don't care [TS]

  that they're going to face things out [TS]

  and obviously Apple does not care about [TS]

  keeping their backs up to date you know [TS]

  that's that's modern Apple thanks [TS]

  whoever but imagine if you saw [TS]

  the cook the new 15-inch macbook pro and [TS]

  next to it in the store page as it is [TS]

  now is the old one but imagine the old [TS]

  one also got skylake and a couple USBC [TS]

  thunderball three ports which one of [TS]

  those would look more like the pro [TS]

  machine and which one of those do you [TS]

  think would sell more I huh [TS]

  ok so let's suppose you wanted a machine [TS]

  with infinite flexibility in that women [TS]

  infinite strong word [TS]

  let's suppose you wanted a machine where [TS]

  you had several ports any of which could [TS]

  do freaking anything it could drive a [TS]

  display it could accept power it could [TS]

  drive old USB it could drive new USB it [TS]

  can do any thing you could plug in a [TS]

  little docking port or not you could [TS]

  plug in SD card reader or not or stories [TS]

  or a compact flash card reader like I [TS]

  don't I i just don't see this the same [TS]

  way that you guys seem to and and the [TS]

  reality situation is there's no right or [TS]

  wrong I'm right and I'm wrong [TS]

  marco was right and he's wrong John is [TS]

  right and he's wrong looks like John is [TS]

  never wrong [TS]

  i-i-i-i have no USBC peripherals and [TS]

  there are times that i plug things into [TS]

  my USB ports on my macbook pro there are [TS]

  times i plug in an hdmi cable to my [TS]

  macbook pro I certainly would need a [TS]

  dongle or two in order to hypothetically [TS]

  get one of these new macbook pros and in [TS]

  the near term that might be a little [TS]

  annoying i don't see it as anything more [TS]

  than that and i see this i personally do [TS]

  see this as the pro machine in fact the [TS]

  thing that I'm grumpy about is what we [TS]

  already com talked about which is 16 [TS]

  gigs ram but in every other way to me [TS]

  this is very much the pro machine it has [TS]

  four ports that you can use for freaking [TS]

  anything and I don't understand [TS]

  I the world is so friggin worked up [TS]

  about dongles a there they're noisy ok [TS]

  they're annoying [TS]

  fine whatever i have a dongle today for [TS]

  ethernet i use it from time to time and [TS]

  you know what life goes on i have a [TS]

  dongle sometimes for displays and right [TS]

  now I actually have a cable that goes [TS]

  the Thunderbolt 2 I think it's [TS]

  displayport but for years i used a [TS]

  dongle for my display and you know what [TS]

  life went on and have I lost any of [TS]

  these dongles no don't think so because [TS]

  I'm an adult [TS]

  I don't lose things that's not something [TS]

  that i do i just it drives me bananas [TS]

  because to me if I don't get your ear [TS]

  pods will say that moment but maybe but [TS]

  I on the one side i do agree with you [TS]

  Marco and I'm not then I'm not placating [TS]

  I really honestly do like I understand [TS]

  where you're coming from in there's [TS]

  there's certainly something to be said [TS]

  for maybe this is too early maybe this [TS]

  is leaving the true other professionals [TS]

  out to dry but lets the only thing I can [TS]

  do is use me as an example i write code [TS]

  for living [TS]

  that's what I do by most definitions [TS]

  that is a pro-level profession in [TS]

  whatever definition of pro you so choose [TS]

  it's the sort of thing that even if I [TS]

  wanted to today I could not do on an [TS]

  iPad yes they're Swift great playground [TS]

  but you can't release an app to the app [TS]

  store apps with playgrounds I have to [TS]

  have a mac i can't have a pc and also [TS]

  her contours whatever I have to have a [TS]

  mac and so I like your hands voice so I [TS]

  i am by at least some definition of [TS]

  professional i'm not a photographer [TS]

  that's a different kind of professional [TS]

  I'm not an artist that's a different [TS]

  kind of professional but I am a [TS]

  professional notice and for me I think [TS]

  this machine would be friggin awesome [TS]

  and there will be times that i'm gonna [TS]

  have to plug in my iphone 7 to this [TS]

  computer and all my god I need a dongle [TS]

  oh well well just get one of the USB see [TS]

  the lightning freaking cables like this [TS]

  is not a big deal this is a problem that [TS]

  can be solved I don't understand why [TS]

  there's so much [TS]

  oh god there's so much [TS]

  thanks about this in yes Marco Island [TS]

  i'm picking on you because you know I I [TS]

  feel like you and I are most vocally on [TS]

  opposite sides this conversation i do [TS]

  agree with you and again i hope i don't [TS]

  like complaining because i mean it i [TS]

  agree with you it is less convenient to [TS]

  plug in something to a dongle to the [TS]

  computer then plugging it in directly to [TS]

  the computer totally agree with you but [TS]

  at the same time the only way to get the [TS]

  world forward the only way to march [TS]

  forward and to get people using us bc is [TS]

  too friggin force them to because gosh [TS]

  knows even as a super nerd who wants to [TS]

  live on the cutting edge if I had the [TS]

  choice between using old ass USB or [TS]

  modern USB i'm going to choose the old [TS]

  one because that's what all my stuff [TS]

  already is [TS]

  I'm never gonna bother buying a USBC to [TS]

  lightning cable what does that do for me [TS]

  not a damn thing other than cost me [TS]

  twenty bucks whatever it is so at some [TS]

  point you have to rip the band-aid off [TS]

  now maybe maybe it's too soon [TS]

  maybe maybe this is not the right time I [TS]

  don't have a good answer for that I that [TS]

  very well could be true but at some [TS]

  point [TS]

  Apple has to say this new future where [TS]

  any port can be anything to anyone is [TS]

  worth fighting for and I personally am [TS]

  okay with that i think i might be [TS]

  standing alone on this one and that's [TS]

  okay and it's kind of funny because i'm [TS]

  actually not in the market for a laptop [TS]

  and i probably won't be for another [TS]

  couple of years at the earliest but I'd [TS]

  i'm looking forward to getting one of [TS]

  these I would like a lighter laptop do I [TS]

  need one [TS]

  no i don't but I'd like it I'd like a [TS]

  laptop where i can plug in the power [TS]

  port dammit r.i.p mac safe but be that [TS]

  as it may i can plug in power to either [TS]

  side as I see fit [TS]

  why not we can do whatever I want I'd [TS]

  like a laptop where I could plug in a [TS]

  cheap docking station all the only [TS]

  reason I haven't bought a thunderbolt [TS]

  docking station which would be amazing [TS]

  is well actually only plug a couple [TS]

  things into my computer anyway but [TS]

  beyond that they're freaking expensive [TS]

  than like three hundred dollars for a [TS]

  crappy docking station and I've seen [TS]

  reasonable USBC docking stations for [TS]

  like half that money [TS]

  well that's because of the protocol not [TS]

  the connector fair fair [TS]

  and I'm frustrated not with any one [TS]

  particular person i'm frustrated in [TS]

  general because I understand where [TS]

  you're coming from Marco and you're not [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  despite everything I've just said you're [TS]

  not wrong but at the same time I just I [TS]

  don't feel like this is such an affront [TS]

  to the professional as everyone else in [TS]

  the world seems to sew and since I'm the [TS]

  only one that's making the speech it [TS]

  seems I i guess on the one that's wrong [TS]

  I mean but you know what I'm saying [TS]

  maybe you didn't you just lump you lump [TS]

  me in with Marco before and didn't even [TS]

  ask me what I thought of this marker [TS]

  mark already knows that we discussed in [TS]

  slack at one point well John what do you [TS]

  think i'll give you the floor sir I [TS]

  again I understand everything that the [TS]

  market was saying about this i think [TS]

  that going all Thunderbolt three is the [TS]

  right thing to do on these computers in [TS]

  fact i wish they had even more ports [TS]

  because i'm a port maniac and I'm i'm [TS]

  mostly that's what I think if they had [TS]

  the two laptops and Marco describe the [TS]

  the bigger one than the skinny one [TS]

  having the skinny womans Elmore it way [TS]

  more like kind of the same reason that [TS]

  the laptop that had a CF card slot like [TS]

  the are not the CF card slot the pc card [TS]

  formats pcmcia the expresscard 34 [TS]

  yeah whatever I and the side of the 17 [TS]

  inch laptop like that was sitting there [TS]

  too had tons of ports and airports and [TS]

  other laptop had because it could cause [TS]

  it was big enough to have them right and [TS]

  they just continue to design of people [TS]

  bought it right I totally see the [TS]

  trade-offs I hate dongles to I want the [TS]

  future where everything is uniform I [TS]

  think making machine like this brings [TS]

  the future here sooner by forcing people [TS]

  to do uncomfortable things the problem I [TS]

  have [TS]

  as with almost every other criticism [TS]

  surrounding this event is not so much [TS]

  with the machines that were introduced [TS]

  but with the fact that hey Apple [TS]

  if you really want to hasten the USBC [TS]

  future put it on all your max and stop [TS]

  selling the ones that don't have it but [TS]

  I'm even more enthusiastic for please [TS]

  get rid of all because we're never gonna [TS]

  get rid as legacy USB stuff if Apple [TS]

  keep selling year after year after year [TS]

  computers with this character on the [TS]

  current imac has this connector at the [TS]

  current mac pro let's not even talk [TS]

  about right this does not have [TS]

  Thunderbolt three connectors and then [TS]

  in fact nothing has done everything's on [TS]

  the bag because it's just yeah so this [TS]

  particular Mac if I had to pick what the [TS]

  compliment of port should be on this [TS]

  particular Mac the only difference i [TS]

  would do is i would put the SD card slot [TS]

  on it not be as Marco rant about info [TS]

  today not because it's that big a deal [TS]

  and most people don't use it but because [TS]

  i think it's small [TS]

  there's room for it and it is the one [TS]

  thing with that there is not there's [TS]

  nothing you can do to the outside that [TS]

  Apple can do to the outside world to [TS]

  force the outside world to come up with [TS]

  a solution that obviates the need to put [TS]

  a second SD card into something because [TS]

  apple doesn't make standalone cameras so [TS]

  they can't for stand on camera company [TS]

  to suddenly make really fast reliable [TS]

  wireless or really are improved USB or [TS]

  anything like that that is going to make [TS]

  it so that you have a solution that is [TS]

  better than taking the SD card out right [TS]

  so given that they can't do that and [TS]

  there's no replacement for the SD card [TS]

  just put the slot in there it's a little [TS]

  bit easier it's not a big deal put it on [TS]

  the big one like that is the only change [TS]

  i would have made I would not put USB [TS]

  type a character on this thing anywhere [TS]

  I would not put an hdmi port I would not [TS]

  do any of that stuff and I live in an [TS]

  office where every conference room has [TS]

  this Hydra of wires poking out of it [TS]

  including dongle adapter or so too many [TS]

  displayport mini DVI VGA all of which [TS]

  are metal wired to leave me like this is [TS]

  my wires things not because they think [TS]

  we're going to steal them but because [TS]

  like when they were loose people would [TS]

  take them for one conference room to the [TS]

  other and they would migrate around [TS]

  people bring back their desks and write [TS]

  their names on them in sharpie or [TS]

  whatever dongles are terrible angles are [TS]

  the devil right yeah I want to I want to [TS]

  get the world but we can stop with that [TS]

  and you're not going to get to the world [TS]

  where you can stop with that unless you [TS]

  just get rid of the old port so I'm all [TS]

  I i agree with apples decision not to [TS]

  put legacy parts in this my only quibble [TS]

  I want to throw an SD card slot in there [TS]

  everyone probably has their own quibble [TS]

  there was a hdmi like for all the other [TS]

  ones i wish i had an hdmi port dongles [TS]

  are no eventually eventually someday [TS]

  maybe possibly i don't maybe I'm maybe [TS]

  I'm foolish to think this eventually all [TS]

  the high-end peripherals should have a [TS]

  little tiny connector on them like I [TS]

  mean we're fighting fighting and vga for [TS]

  how many decades now it's still out [TS]

  there but I have you like now if you buy [TS]

  like a projector for business [TS]

  maybe they'll still come [TS]

  with vga but I feel like now the tide is [TS]

  turning a little bit to say alright [TS]

  doesn't have a vga connector that's that [TS]

  that's what the default connector be at [TS]

  least DVI or something or maybe [TS]

  displayport or maybe mini displayport [TS]

  like I want to I want to hurt us towards [TS]

  better standards i'm doing hand motions [TS]

  here knocking examen des can hurt us [TS]

  towards better standards and I want [TS]

  Apple to help that along by purging [TS]

  legacy ports so i'm actually mostly on [TS]

  Casey side of us and by the way for the [TS]

  specific computer for this thing big [TS]

  things I just want to say I think if [TS]

  Apple could have put 32 gigs in there [TS]

  with the particular intel chipset they [TS]

  would have I don't think they're holding [TS]

  withholding it out a spider because they [TS]

  don't think people need it is just like [TS]

  they were as Marco said totally [TS]

  dedicated to this than light thing and [TS]

  16 is always good fit [TS]

  it's gonna fit 32 they would offered in [TS]

  charge just ate bajillion dollars for [TS]

  like they usually do so i have some [TS]

  faith that in 2018 when whatever the [TS]

  follow-up is coffee like which is [TS]

  apparently going to be the next [TS]

  available Intel CPU with the good in bed [TS]

  GPU that can support 32 gigs of ram with [TS]

  the good chipset so 20 18 or 20 19 and [TS]

  coffee like and then we will get our 32 [TS]

  gig laptop and not before then and that [TS]

  may be a long frustrating wait but for [TS]

  this specific machine at this point I'm [TS]

  16 gig ram disappointing but I can choke [TS]

  it down and USBC along the side i'm [TS]

  pretty much okay with it would like the [TS]

  SD card slot but I am I is a mostly in [TS]

  case you side with this for a fact that [TS]

  you mentioned the band-aid thing I think [TS]

  it's exactly what I mention I was [TS]

  talking about this is lack like you know [TS]

  earlier in the week [TS]

  did you know rip the band-aid off and of [TS]

  course you know again my complaint is [TS]

  you're gonna rip the band-aid off you [TS]

  can't do it by changing just one thing [TS]

  and keep selling a friggin macbook air [TS]

  forever so I'm still angry at Apple but [TS]

  not about this machine about all the [TS]

  other machines [TS]

  well then I think that's the thing is [TS]

  I'm not the first person I've said this [TS]

  but i wonder if some of the the whining [TS]

  and moaning about these computers is [TS]

  less about these computers and more [TS]

  about [TS]

  feeling boxed so let's suppose I'm a [TS]

  professional photographer and I want to [TS]

  have this machine in the field that can [TS]

  do I don't know whatever professional [TS]

  photographer people do like plug in SD [TS]

  cards and and do computationally [TS]

  difficult things or yo have a bazillion [TS]

  pictures open at once which somehow [TS]

  necessitates 32 gigs of ram let you know [TS]

  if this isn't for you [TS]

  well there's no real mac pro option the [TS]

  imac is below me because I'm a [TS]

  professional [TS]

  so what options are left and I think if [TS]

  Apple had simultaneously released or [TS]

  even made some amount of mention of hey [TS]

  you know here's some other device be a [TS]

  desktop or a super-crazy laptop that's [TS]

  really terrible the professionals would [TS]

  like it or some other thing then maybe [TS]

  we wouldn't be so desperate but because [TS]

  we're all you know in the middle of the [TS]

  ocean in RN paddling and trying to stay [TS]

  above water but our arms are getting [TS]

  tired and we're wondering if Apple [TS]

  really cares about us anymore that if [TS]

  that life vest will ever appear we're [TS]

  getting really really antsy and really [TS]

  concerned over a computer that really [TS]

  isn't meant for us like Marco you don't [TS]

  even use a laptop on a regular basis yet [TS]

  here you are fairly perturbed about this [TS]

  particular laptop in and I feel because [TS]

  I think because what you have to say [TS]

  though because like because you have no [TS]

  options [TS]

  yeah is a pro and worried that I that [TS]

  like the things i use are going to move [TS]

  towards laptops and also sometimes i do [TS]

  use a laptop like when I go away for [TS]

  like a week at a time a few times a year [TS]

  where I really do use that heavily [TS]

  during that time so i do use I don't use [TS]

  a laptop frequently but when i do use it [TS]

  i use it heavily so I am a pro user when [TS]

  I use my laptop's no question i think i [TS]

  think Andrew Cunningham data are static [TS]

  I had a good taking this is intro to the [TS]

  review of the only review hardware the [TS]

  people have which is the macbook escape [TS]

  started by saying that mac users have [TS]

  been frustrated with Apple lately and [TS]

  you know the whole thing I'd like that [TS]

  mac not getting updated as much and so [TS]

  on and so forth and second paragraph is [TS]

  the new macbook pros released for the [TS]

  wreck [TS]

  a year and a half after the 2015 models [TS]

  which were in some cases changed very [TS]

  little from 2014 20 30 ml have been [TS]

  birthed into this error of frustration [TS]

  that is the key thing is why you're just [TS]

  getting AC is not so much that I think [TS]

  people are particularly met at these [TS]

  models whatever has quibbles about you [TS]

  know what ports that happens then the [TS]

  pricing and then 16 gig and stuff like [TS]

  that but because they enter the world [TS]

  that they're entering is the world in [TS]

  which all the the most part in mac fans [TS]

  are frustrated with the mac line and as [TS]

  good as these may be the rest of the [TS]

  line is still just sitting there [TS]

  especially insulting least continuing to [TS]

  be sold including the areas even after [TS]

  this you know suppose a possible air [TS]

  replacement that's the world these are [TS]

  coming into so I think you're right that [TS]

  a lot of the anger related to this event [TS]

  is not about the computers that were [TS]

  released it is that it's like if you're [TS]

  already angry and someone does something [TS]

  kind of nice [TS]

  you can pick up the nice thing that they [TS]

  did and say but I'm still angry about [TS]

  that other crap and we are across the [TS]

  line about the crap and the more logical [TS]

  things like you said it in any sort of [TS]

  situation you say well you know maybe [TS]

  you should get this is what should i get [TS]

  like my options [TS]

  you know what I feel for the people who [TS]

  want an inexpensive laptop computer like [TS]

  well apple / reduce these Pro models but [TS]

  what if you want to get a decent mac for [TS]

  a low price [TS]

  welcome to USB ale and welcome to not a [TS]

  screen like you're going back in time to [TS]

  buy a computer that is really super old [TS]

  and his way crappier like so it's it's [TS]

  really easy to be frustrated with the [TS]

  mac line and apples treatment of it even [TS]

  if you like the particular machines that [TS]

  they released and if it if you're super [TS]

  picky pro and then you look at the [TS]

  machines they did release install i have [TS]

  quibbles those as well it just adds up [TS]

  to a very negative reaction i think i [TS]

  put something in the end the show notes [TS]

  of someone tweeting about this is a [TS]

  steep frankly I was it's echoing what [TS]

  you said the level of pushback from a [TS]

  corporate event is staggering [TS]

  I sure hope someone Apple who can make a [TS]

  difference is paying attention like I i [TS]

  agree that right or wrong you can see [TS]

  all these people whining or complaining [TS]

  or they don't have a reason we're it it [TS]

  is a really weird vibe i cant a pretty [TS]

  unprecedented vibe in the modern Apple [TS]

  error for Apple to have a major [TS]

  announcement of products and for the [TS]

  reaction from the most ardent fans the [TS]

  people [TS]

  who are watching the livestream people [TS]

  who knew there would be an event at all [TS]

  the people who read text sites about the [TS]

  event to have a vocal portion of that [TS]

  yes it's all them not even say it's a [TS]

  majority but definitely a vocal portion [TS]

  of that their reaction to the event to [TS]

  be like anger like Apple did something [TS]

  wrong like maybe we should never lose [TS]

  anything people are super angry at us [TS]

  now [TS]

  like before at least they were just [TS]

  anticipating like well wait-and-see wait [TS]

  and see but never like angry at us [TS]

  this used to happen by the way all the [TS]

  time before the jobs to our anytime [TS]

  apple announced anything pretty much in [TS]

  the nineties everyone all the apps mac [TS]

  fans will get angry at Apple like this [TS]

  was the vibe for pretty much the the you [TS]

  know most of my childhood and young [TS]

  adults that Apple was we were all angry [TS]

  and apple for for not winning the mac pc [TS]

  wars were all angry at apple for [TS]

  allowing myself to dominate and all the [TS]

  dumb things that they did that we think [TS]

  they should have done differently which [TS]

  would have you know solve this problem [TS]

  whatever and anytime announced anything [TS]

  we were angry about it because we knew [TS]

  they needed a new operating system and [TS]

  they denounced in your operating system [TS]

  strategies we said the stocks this [TS]

  operating system sucks what are you [TS]

  doing when they announced Mac os10 [TS]

  everyone's super angry I don't want to [TS]

  terminal command line being angry Apple [TS]

  used to be the vibe but then after jobs [TS]

  turn it around every time there was an [TS]

  apple that we would wait like it's [TS]

  Christmas morning and be like oh goody [TS]

  Apple things and we talked about them [TS]

  and pick them whatever but we're all [TS]

  excited by it and now it's like the [TS]

  first turn back towards the dark side of [TS]

  apple announces a bunch of stuff and [TS]

  we're all just angry about the maximum [TS]

  even the iphone stuff is a little bit [TS]

  backlash I think the iphone stuff people [TS]

  in kind of angry about the best more [TS]

  like when you're really super successful [TS]

  people want to tear you down right but [TS]

  the mac stuff is like neglect and [TS]

  frustration and then you release a bunch [TS]

  of products that you know that the leave [TS]

  a bunch of the don't address a whole [TS]

  bunch of the frustration and the part of [TS]

  the frustration they do address address [TS]

  it in a way that is not satisfactory to [TS]

  your most cranky users and so that that [TS]

  I think explains this whole big vibe and [TS]

  should Apple do something about it yet [TS]

  they should update the rest of the [TS]

  friggin max like that goes a long way to [TS]

  go a long way to calming people down but [TS]

  if I was apple i would mostly stay the [TS]

  course on the USB things [TS]

  about if I had to design the next [TS]

  version of this and by the way they're [TS]

  already rumors like hey guess what [TS]

  super-secret totally made-up rumor next [TS]

  year Apple is going to have macbook pros [TS]

  that are cheaper and faster cpu that [TS]

  their grandma whatever and you again as [TS]

  Andrew Cunningham point out to the [TS]

  person who reported like what are they [TS]

  going to put in it it's gonna let them [TS]

  to 30 years around that the way for [TS]

  coffee lake or they have to do something [TS]

  radically different anyway um the next [TS]

  revision of this thing if they put an SD [TS]

  card slot on it just that one change [TS]

  even for the people who don't use SD [TS]

  card slots ever i think would be like [TS]

  all right now [TS]

  now Apple I see that you have seen my [TS]

  concern you know how to you have not [TS]

  actually addressed it because i want an [TS]

  hdmi port at least now i see that you [TS]

  are taking our feedback into [TS]

  consideration and are correcting your [TS]

  course by making the iphone success less [TS]

  bendy and slightly more grippy by making [TS]

  the iphone 7 group you're still and [TS]

  waterproof you know by what I also had [TS]

  on the neckline and keeping a file is [TS]

  generated by not making it glass front [TS]

  and back after the 4-series because that [TS]

  broke a lot like that's all we want to [TS]

  see at this point for the process [TS]

  specifically is maybe some slight [TS]

  reconsideration of the next iteration of [TS]

  this but again their hands are tied [TS]

  because of Intel's things on I don't [TS]

  think we're going to see a lot of [TS]

  Corrections they're just need to update [TS]

  the rest of the line force the rest of [TS]

  the world into the USBC utopia that we [TS]

  were all promised get away from those [TS]

  giant usba connectors i hope we start [TS]

  looking at them like I look at schedule [TS]

  ports now like you believe we actually [TS]

  had these things and plug stuff and do [TS]

  it they're huge [TS]

  what is it an air intake I don't get it [TS]

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  thank you very much the castle for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  why don't we have a touch of our [TS]

  external keyboard yes we briefly briefly [TS]

  talked about this last night was not so [TS]

  briefly perhaps well either way I i want [TS]

  one [TS]

  some fierce but we don't have one yet is [TS]

  it coming John I had one additional [TS]

  thought about that don't want to throw [TS]

  in here and we don't follow up [TS]

  yeah well I think we've long since left [TS]

  follow-up to be honest now we are still [TS]

  wear these all follow up is all from the [TS]

  things talked about last show with new [TS]

  you know it's not like they announce any [TS]

  new macbook pros were still just talked [TS]

  about this last one [TS]

  anyway i'm good for the keyboard with a [TS]

  touch bar I thought of a reason that [TS]

  once again I'm disappointed that no [TS]

  listeners tweeted at me or emailed us [TS]

  that the touch bar on the keyboard [TS]

  not that this changes the odds of Apple [TS]

  doing it but it makes me think that it [TS]

  may not be as great and ideas if they [TS]

  can then again i'm saying is having [TS]

  never actually touch one of these [TS]

  because they're not out yet right all [TS]

  the way to try to undermine at work and [TS]

  I told me sorry we're not getting in [TS]

  your maximum februari so that comfort [TS]

  ITA alright anyway but yeah the touch [TS]

  bar on the laptops the whole idea about [TS]

  this is a touch surface that's not the [TS]

  screen so you're not reaching up to [TS]

  touch screen is down by the keyboards on [TS]

  level two keyboards with the rest of [TS]

  your stuff but the touch bar is also a [TS]

  screen and because the things on it [TS]

  change you will have to look at it to [TS]

  know like in this app will house the [TS]

  context change or define the control [TS]

  that you want because you can't sure [TS]

  can't feel for anything on it and [TS]

  especially if there's something visual [TS]

  like a display their of a timeline or a [TS]

  scrubber whatever you will have to [TS]

  actually look at and on a laptop that [TS]

  mostly works out because your line of [TS]

  sight and focal distance on the laptop [TS]

  screen which is when using touch bar is [TS]

  not that far off from the the touch part [TS]

  self screen touch bar screen touch are [TS]

  not a big change in focal distance if [TS]

  you're using a desktop and your keyboard [TS]

  isn't in the right position or [TS]

  economically and so is your screen [TS]

  pretty big difference in focal distance [TS]

  and most people who are touch typist [TS]

  don't look at the keyboard ever on a [TS]

  desktop because why would you can feel [TS]

  where everything is [TS]

  there's no reason to look down there and [TS]

  there's a totally different focal [TS]

  distance so experience-wise using the [TS]

  touch bar not on a laptop may not be as [TS]

  nice as experienced as using it on you [TS]

  know on a thing with the screen is kind [TS]

  of things like a heads-up display we're [TS]

  like you don't have to look away from [TS]

  the road as much look at your thing so I [TS]

  don't know if Apple whatever trap that [TS]

  out as a reason that they don't produce [TS]

  the keyboard with this thing on it but i [TS]

  think it may actually be a semi legit [TS]

  reason why the touch bar is purely an [TS]

  animal of the laptop and is not [TS]

  everything that is destined to be on [TS]

  desktop computers and one thing we don't [TS]

  know yet is like is it really meant to [TS]

  be like a continuous input device the [TS]

  way trackpad or keyboard is or is it [TS]

  really meant to be what the function row [TS]

  was before which is basically occasional [TS]

  utility functions right we don't really [TS]

  know like obviously Apple has a lot of [TS]

  lot of different demos and stuff that [TS]

  they have in their effort we don't [TS]

  really know yet how we use in practice [TS]

  like will actually become a a really [TS]

  primary pointing device or input device [TS]

  or whether it whether it will just [TS]

  become like a little utility thing if it [TS]

  is the latter if it is just like a [TS]

  little little utility thing it's a lot [TS]

  less important to have on the desktop [TS]

  you know it might never come and there [TS]

  won't be strong demand for it and so it [TS]

  might not be worth you know anything [TS]

  that but if it does come to the desktop [TS]

  somehow again if it is one of those like [TS]

  you know occasional reference things [TS]

  then it's ok to to change your I focal [TS]

  distance to go to it because you're not [TS]

  using a constantly whereas like if it's [TS]

  actually meant to be like looking over [TS]

  some of the ways it was demoed with [TS]

  being things like a like a jog wheel in [TS]

  Final Cut Pro and stuff like that like [TS]

  that's like a a constant frequent type [TS]

  of input device there if that's the kind [TS]

  of thing that ends up being very useful [TS]

  for it and we don't really know I mean [TS]

  whatever apple says is not matter what [TS]

  matters is what ends being useful in [TS]

  practice right and we were we don't know [TS]

  they added the nobody even have these [TS]

  two review yet so we don't even know yet [TS]

  but if that happens then I think you [TS]

  have a bigger problem with like [TS]

  frequently changing your your focal [TS]

  distance and everything up and down from [TS]

  the screening tool to the keyboard and [TS]

  everything [TS]

  although honestly just what I was just [TS]

  happy that yesterday or the day before [TS]

  using it for a while and I kind of was [TS]

  playing less actually pretending that i [TS]

  had touch bar [TS]

  try to figure out like how does it feel [TS]

  to reach up here for like scrolling or [TS]

  jogging or editing operations and [TS]

  everything it's kind of too high up for [TS]

  me like four for ergonomics i am a [TS]

  little concerned that it might not feel [TS]

  very good to reach all the way up there [TS]

  frequently for lots of interaction with [TS]

  my hands like I feel like that it might [TS]

  be a little uncomfortable organically [TS]

  weird like if it's gonna be one of those [TS]

  like continuous input devices [TS]

  I feel like that's the kind of the wrong [TS]

  spot for it and I recognize that like in [TS]

  the right spot for that kind of thing [TS]

  would probably be between the spacebar [TS]

  and the trackpad but I also recognize [TS]

  practically speaking like that's really [TS]

  hard to design around and and probably [TS]

  bad for like accidental input and [TS]

  everything so that's probably why it's [TS]

  not there but the way it is up top there [TS]

  I do wonder a little bit about the [TS]

  ergonomics of using it very often [TS]

  well like I said the last week on the [TS]

  show and as I tweeted in as I tried to [TS]

  jam into a series of three tweets that I [TS]

  initially screwed up and had to delete [TS]

  and retain together boy really waiting [TS]

  for that I added this to function on [TS]

  Twitter and Dana anyway [TS]

  hold your breath it may be that the [TS]

  time-lapse the like imagining what has [TS]

  happened to apple keyboard over the [TS]

  years starting on the mac portable you [TS]

  just watch the thing school wish in the [TS]

  thing it just gets flatter and flatter [TS]

  and flatter and the keys get so flat and [TS]

  soon they're not even keys and sooner [TS]

  like flush with the surface of thing [TS]

  that is going down and open the screen [TS]

  appears on the top of it done you just [TS]

  keep extrapolating that out why is the [TS]

  screen to the top [TS]

  why isn't the screen at the bottom why [TS]

  isn't the whole thing screen why isn't a [TS]

  big force touch surface what you know [TS]

  and that gets into all the Millennials [TS]

  typing on the screens and the whole big [TS]

  thing but seriously if you time lapse [TS]

  that it's comical to like to just look [TS]

  at it like that you don't really realize [TS]

  how comical until I'm gonna need the mac [TS]

  portable to do it right but just looking [TS]

  at old laptop keyboard you're like this [TS]

  is what the keys used to be like and in [TS]

  some respects you're like wow look at [TS]

  this travel so luxurious but another [TS]

  respect [TS]

  look at all this wasted space and air to [TS]

  try to ape like the keyboard was taping [TS]

  the typewriter which is it just like [TS]

  this whole big chain of things and many [TS]

  things to look more than likely start [TS]

  shrinking so much and once you start [TS]

  adding screens like what are we even [TS]

  doing here again I talked about in the [TS]

  last [TS]

  show it just seems like a [TS]

  straightforward extrapolation to say [TS]

  that surface doesn't need to be keyboard [TS]

  at a certain point it's better to have a [TS]

  bunch of reconfigurable images on a [TS]

  tactic screen with force and blah blah [TS]

  blah and that's what everyone says well [TS]

  you can extrapolate that's ridiculous [TS]

  like a slippery slope thing you have to [TS]

  leave the keys there like at a certain [TS]

  point do you how funky like do they have [TS]

  to make the keys before you don't notice [TS]

  any difference like all they have to [TS]

  move it's really important for touch [TS]

  typing and this and that and the other [TS]

  thing like we're all die in the kids [TS]

  that replaces might not have the same [TS]

  ties to typing just never learn to type [TS]

  in value may take a long time to happen [TS]

  that seems to be where it's going and [TS]

  the reason that would work and and gets [TS]

  into one market was saying about what [TS]

  part is the most comfortable to use the [TS]

  reason I would work on a laptop [TS]

  form-factor specifically where you have [TS]

  to have the screen and the keyboard [TS]

  connected together because they fold and [TS]

  it's all part of the whole portability [TS]

  thing is because the focal distance is [TS]

  not that different because looking down [TS]

  at the keyboard any part of the keyboard [TS]

  on a laptop is not that far from looking [TS]

  down at the screen because they're [TS]

  attached to each other and so if you did [TS]

  have some kind of you I on the flat part [TS]

  it is still more comfortable it is still [TS]

  gets back to what everyone you know an [TS]

  apple is always said and we all believe [TS]

  with you know you don't want to touch [TS]

  the big vertical screen but there is a [TS]

  horizontal surface you can touch and you [TS]

  can type on it using the trackpad on it [TS]

  now you can use a touch screen on it [TS]

  it's not making a touchscreen that quote [TS]

  unquote and it's not like you know [TS]

  people keep doing your thing you just [TS]

  say it's going to turn into a bigger [TS]

  ipad which may be well and again we will [TS]

  talk about the microsoft server studio [TS]

  eventually I promise I won't let go off [TS]

  the list but having a horizontal surface [TS]

  that you use your fingers on that is [TS]

  ergonomically viable we do all the time [TS]

  we call the keyboard and trackpad and [TS]

  now a touch bar it is not ridiculous to [TS]

  think that the parts of the horizontal [TS]

  surface that we touch that are now fixed [TS]

  in hardware could one day be [TS]

  reconfigured on the same way as a touch [TS]

  bar to touch bar is in any way [TS]

  successful as an experiment as a feature [TS]

  that we put out into the world and [TS]

  people try and you can see how it works [TS]

  it is in any way successful even if [TS]

  people say just like Marco it's fine but [TS]

  they don't like reaching up there that [TS]

  just mean the concept is bad [TS]

  that just means they didn't do it enough [TS]

  right so i think that that time lapse [TS]

  not extrapolation clearly [TS]

  in one direction one direction only in [TS]

  that direction is not a move from [TS]

  Apple's insistence on that people don't [TS]

  touch vertical screens again by a touch [TS]

  screen windows laptop and be poking at [TS]

  the screen some people like it and some [TS]

  people that reported like you get one of [TS]

  those you instinctively start touching [TS]

  laptop screens which by the way is [TS]

  terrible you should never touch a laptop [TS]

  screen that's a separate issue as a [TS]

  personal issue i'll read right but [TS]

  apples thing is horizontal surface with [TS]

  touch so i think i think this is a place [TS]

  where we could go where I would be [TS]

  excited to see them go because at least [TS]

  then you start to read the advantages [TS]

  that come along with having horrible [TS]

  keyboards right like right now we're [TS]

  like we're going to keep making your [TS]

  keyboard smaller and smaller and flatter [TS]

  and flatter and less and less like a [TS]

  keyboard that you like but you're not [TS]

  going to get over that you know the big [TS]

  wind you get by saying guess what it's [TS]

  all screen and you can do amazing things [TS]

  for you could be cuz imagine the [TS]

  interface that you could do [TS]

  Margo with like your podcast editing [TS]

  suite where you'd want limited to just a [TS]

  reconfigurable touch bar and weren't [TS]

  limited to totally screen Louis trackpad [TS]

  could actually draw controls down there [TS]

  for editing on a laptop that could be [TS]

  amazing right that could be pretty [TS]

  amazing but you definitely wouldn't like [TS]

  that keyboard so you may just have to [TS]

  wait until you die and and Adam grows up [TS]

  and he can make that podcast that our [TS]

  friend sponsor site is backblaze [TS]

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  all the time student so often it's kinda [TS]

  like a it make kind of your entire [TS]

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  you file somewhere in addition to [TS]

  regular strongly that they also have [TS]

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  people's data over 10 billion files have [TS]

  been restored using back plays this is [TS]

  such a great addition to local backups [TS]

  you know back plays and I both agree you [TS]

  should still do local backups you could [TS]

  still do time machine if you can you [TS]

  still do a disclosure like SuperDuper if [TS]

  you can but you should also have online [TS]

  backup because it saves you from a whole [TS]

  class of other problems that no local [TS]

  backup cam things like fire flood theft [TS]

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  the same room as it online backup is a [TS]

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  backblaze dot-com / ATP for unlimited [TS]

  native online backup thanks a lot to [TS]

  back place for sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah so we forgot to talk about earlier [TS]

  when you were talking about the new [TS]

  macbook pro how excited are you for [TS]

  years to arrive because you ordered the [TS]

  macbook escape [TS]

  I did order the macbook escape and I [TS]

  cancel it before it's shipped because [TS]

  insert the markers waffling jingle right [TS]

  here [TS]

  yep yeah Americans wrongfully maybe [TS]

  that's me that's the Jingle yeah [TS]

  basically uh I I still might get 1i [TS]

  haven't decided for sure i'm not getting [TS]

  one but as I looked at more the specs [TS]

  and I thought about it more and as some [TS]

  of the early reviews are coming and I [TS]

  figured you know what I think I want to [TS]

  wait until I could actually try to [TS]

  keyboard in a store i can actually see [TS]

  it [TS]

  next to the 15 eggs and really decide [TS]

  that you know and hopefully trucks bar [TS]

  in store to really decide that because [TS]

  my laptop is fine i'm not in a huge rush [TS]

  it the only thing ever that really [TS]

  drives me nuts about it is that I'm [TS]

  always out of space because I got the [TS]

  base model which is awesome in every [TS]

  single way except the hard drive space [TS]

  is not nearly enough so i'm always have [TS]

  a space on and it's a huge pain and it [TS]

  is a big problem for how I work but if I [TS]

  just Casey it up i can just bring a [TS]

  little extra national driving everywhere [TS]

  I go and plug it in and call and i'll [TS]

  have my bag dongles then wrap it all up [TS]

  and in my tambien palace or whatever it [TS]

  is [TS]

  mhm and i love it i'll go full blast for [TS]

  Casey and and just plug in a bunch of [TS]

  crafts my laptop and and so I will solve [TS]

  the problem that we hit that way until I [TS]

  can figure out what i want to do because [TS]

  honestly like once you and I mean I [TS]

  didn't feel good about how much it costs [TS]

  like the configuration i got was the i7 [TS]

  cpus a high cpu and 16 gigs and 512 SSD [TS]

  and that put it up to 2,200 dollars and [TS]

  like you know I don't feel good about [TS]

  spending that much on a 13-inch even I [TS]

  suspect one like that that doesn't feel [TS]

  great to me and I realized you know I [TS]

  acted I could do that but i'm not even [TS]

  sure like I i once again had 15 inch [TS]

  regret or like i was i would like the [TS]

  fear of 15 entry great basically like as [TS]

  i mentioned before like I have sometimes [TS]

  regret not getting a 15-inch and when [TS]

  I've had the 15-inch I've always liked [TS]

  ma'am so that teenage so I'm like you [TS]

  know I should probably wait and actually [TS]

  try the new one first so that that's [TS]

  basically and i'm going to wait until [TS]

  the new ones are actually in stores and [TS]

  until people have reviews of all the [TS]

  different configurations and that [TS]

  real-world battery tests like the the [TS]

  reviews of the macbook escape i guess [TS]

  the embargo was lifted today so a whole [TS]

  bunch of reviews can I like the like the [TS]

  aforementioned ours one and ours did a [TS]

  battery test that showed interestingly [TS]

  basically that the the low demand [TS]

  battery life is ridiculous it's what I [TS]

  think it was like 16 hours or something [TS]

  it's ridiculously good but the if you [TS]

  actually stress the processor it's two [TS]

  hours [TS]

  it's like well yeah that's actually [TS]

  that's very similar to the current ones [TS]

  like the current ones if you really [TS]

  stretchy turn the brightness down if you [TS]

  really are gentle on it [TS]

  on my fifteenth now i can get 10 hours [TS]

  but not if I'm doing it I'm like using [TS]

  Xcode or including mp3 or doing it doing [TS]

  audio editing forget it then that i'm [TS]

  closer to five hours maybe [TS]

  and if I'm actually maxing out all the [TS]

  cpu cores like for instance doing a big [TS]

  lightroom import as i discovered this [TS]

  summer two hours but so this actually [TS]

  isn't that different facility basically [TS]

  a guy i wonder what the real word [TS]

  battery life will be of the other two [TS]

  models i'm actually not quite concerned [TS]

  because it's like what I saw I cancel [TS]

  this like back on i think sunday [TS]

  whatever is when I saw the better test [TS]

  direction they can man I i bet the the [TS]

  battery life under moderate to heavy [TS]

  loads of the touch bar models is [TS]

  probably going to be terrible but we [TS]

  will see [TS]

  I mean two hours already pretty terrible [TS]

  but that's like the low-power one of the [TS]

  biggest battery so I that's a little [TS]

  scary [TS]

  I also thought you know what nothing [TS]

  really wrong with my current one besides [TS]

  having no storage space so maybe they [TS]

  just upgrade it and deal with it and [TS]

  live with it for a long time because it [TS]

  has a keyboard i like it has a trackpad [TS]

  i like it has lots of ports that come in [TS]

  handy as the SD card reader that i use [TS]

  frequently so you know I'm probably just [TS]

  keep it for a while because there's [TS]

  there's no pressing need to upgrade [TS]

  other than that stupid storage issue and [TS]

  just wanting the newest thing enough [TS]

  food next week i could have ordered a 15 [TS]

  X who knows very well could be [TS]

  and John you've been waffling apparently [TS]

  yeah this was just another misplaced [TS]

  item and the things we talked about it [TS]

  was about the display and the imac vs [TS]

  nothing pro but are going to be screwed [TS]

  up the order so that was my waffling [TS]

  you're welcome although not really [TS]

  because i have to say like Marcus [TS]

  waffling when i introduced the the the [TS]

  concept of this segment the way back [TS]

  when is that you know it's really you [TS]

  know it's nice to make fun of but it's [TS]

  really changing your position [TS]

  information changes but the true [TS]

  waffling waffling is Marco acting [TS]

  impulsively because no new information [TS]

  has come to light [TS]

  he had just not fully assess his [TS]

  feelings until after he placed the order [TS]

  right so that's that's awful [TS]

  in the true sense where a more cautious [TS]

  approach might have been to hash out [TS]

  these internal things before placing [TS]

  order he's just lucky that Apple isn't [TS]

  ship things very quickly because you [TS]

  could be having to deal with a return [TS]

  here where you know again no new [TS]

  information has come to light [TS]

  I think really marcos internal landscape [TS]

  that has changed in the past two days or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  well and lots of people do that lot of [TS]

  people will order things and they don't [TS]

  want them to turn them and i've only [TS]

  done that once with the with the macbook [TS]

  1i really don't like doing that I i [TS]

  really didn't really sell them like the [TS]

  mac pro I know [TS]

  yeah well yeah they returning stuff like [TS]

  aii i feel bad like I know it's there [TS]

  for a reason I know that Apple probably [TS]

  doesn't really care if i return it but I [TS]

  I feel bad that I know that like I'm [TS]

  invoking this clause that is not meant [TS]

  to be invoked frequently there's a cost [TS]

  to it people are bearing cost to this [TS]

  it's not it isn't meant to be like a [TS]

  free home trial so I i try to return [TS]

  things if necessary for a possible [TS]

  rather than enough [TS]

  why is there no true tone displaying the [TS]

  macbook pros what's up with that two [TS]

  theories one is just like they didn't [TS]

  get around to it because this is really [TS]

  old design of a machine you know like [TS]

  all the lead times and this could have [TS]

  been released during her and blah blah [TS]

  like that's the obvious explanation like [TS]

  it's just not there because timelines [TS]

  and even though this mac is coming out [TS]

  now we all know that they have been [TS]

  delayed because we were waiting for [TS]

  intel cpus and also have other crap so [TS]

  that the other possibility that occurred [TS]

  to me is maybe it's because it doesn't [TS]

  feature isn't there but why even if it [TS]

  was there why some people might not [TS]

  enable it for people doing color [TS]

  sensitive work on this screen and I [TS]

  guess there are those out there like [TS]

  good because it does have the p3 screen [TS]

  almost up wouldn't you kind of not want [TS]

  your screen to change color profile [TS]

  based on the ambient light to try to get [TS]

  a more consistent color experience I [TS]

  don't know enough about are you know [TS]

  maybe ours would want that because I [TS]

  look if you don't change its gonna look [TS]

  weird when you're in you know sodium [TS]

  lights vs fluorescence vs whatever not [TS]

  that they're going to be doing their [TS]

  work on the side of the road under [TS]

  sodium lights but anyway maybe they [TS]

  wouldn't want to change but i can also [TS]

  imagine them saying I just want to [TS]

  calibrate my screen and have it the way [TS]

  I want it [TS]

  and not have to worry about whether the [TS]

  studio lights are on or off and having [TS]

  to change the color right so that made [TS]

  it maybe there's not a lot of demand for [TS]

  what I'm saying well but I mean it's you [TS]

  know you can't like whip out your use [TS]

  cases selectively to justify certain [TS]

  things which Apple does like you know [TS]

  you if you say like you know people [TS]

  don't really want a max because they [TS]

  want their color accuracy [TS]

  well don't people want that on iPads to [TS]

  like it was on the ipad so like I don't [TS]

  think people are doing as much pro [TS]

  working i was saying it like that it's [TS]

  not a reason not to include it but it's [TS]

  a reason that even if they did included [TS]

  i think some people might want to turn [TS]

  it off but you can do you can do in the [TS]

  iPads to right it's just a target which [TS]

  I guess that's what I'm saying so I [TS]

  think actually if and when they do [TS]

  eventually introduced it i can imagine [TS]

  people saying oh that's nice but I'm [TS]

  never going to use that because i do [TS]

  professional color work on it and you [TS]

  know and i have on my iPad pro i have it [TS]

  enabled and i have to say it is subtle [TS]

  enough that I don't notice it unlike the [TS]

  stupid thing that makes your drive and [TS]

  look like someone peed on it when the [TS]

  Sun Goes Down I don't notice that your [TS]

  tone is it is subtle enough and I know [TS]

  the lighting in my house is totally like [TS]

  you know very warm compared to what uh [TS]

  lighting could be another situation like [TS]

  but I don't notice the transports but i [TS]

  think it's great for you know playing [TS]

  consumer uses of it but like that's in [TS]

  other words that's why I think you don't [TS]

  hear people like people are complaining [TS]

  about the ports and about 30 gigs of ram [TS]

  i haven't heard any professional users [TS]

  complained that there's no John yeah [TS]

  well it would wear it make where it is [TS]

  nice to have though is an even and phil [TS]

  mentioned this in when he was doing the [TS]

  presentation of the ipad pro and [TS]

  announcing true tone he said something [TS]

  on the lines of like once you once you [TS]

  have it you don't want to go back [TS]

  because like once you have displays in [TS]

  your life that are adjusting color [TS]

  temperature throughout the day for [TS]

  whatever reason whether it's reacting to [TS]

  the room lighting or whether it's you [TS]

  know doing something like night shift /a [TS]

  whatever the flux p screen is what [TS]

  you're thinking of [TS]

  yes once you have like one of the [TS]

  screens in your life doing that it's [TS]

  really weird and jarring to have other [TS]

  ones that aren't and so like if you are [TS]

  getting into the lifestyle of flux /p [TS]

  screens last night shift and and true [TS]

  tone which are I think really two [TS]

  different degrees of us of a similar [TS]

  kind of thing [TS]

  you want all your screens to have it i [TS]

  think that's I think it's only true of [TS]

  the night shift things because i have i [TS]

  do i use but every day i use both my [TS]

  iPad and at least one other screen [TS]

  that's not color adjusted so true tone i [TS]

  think is subtle enough that's what I'm [TS]

  saying that you don't notice that you [TS]

  just think it's the same like this i do [TS]

  i'm using a different room so I don't [TS]

  have them side-by-side perhaps if I had [TS]

  them side-by-side I would notice the [TS]

  difference but when im using my iPad [TS]

  usually in my bedroom and then I come [TS]

  down to use the fat ki Mac I do not [TS]

  notice the different I think I wouldn't [TS]

  notice if it was nice just because again [TS]

  that is super noticeable you like all [TS]

  the screen is so blue after sitting in [TS]

  front of your p yellow I max screen [TS]

  I mean it is yellow but i like it it's [TS]

  it it's probably a placebo but it feels [TS]

  like it so much easier your computer [TS]

  look like it's broken [TS]

  pretty much like my daddy would be like [TS]

  is the green connector loosen the back [TS]

  of your manager with a little bit [TS]

  hey I still have component of my bedroom [TS]

  TV so I know what you're talking about [TS]

  the max startup chime is dead and I [TS]

  don't care [TS]

  so anything else would happen if there's [TS]

  a bunch of asterisks on that they're [TS]

  like it's it's off by default but you [TS]

  can enable it with these nvram commands [TS]

  and yeah yeah we'll put a link in the [TS]

  show notes to how you can enable the [TS]

  other weird one they're doing this weird [TS]

  stuff with with power and opening the [TS]

  lid on the macbook pros which mostly is [TS]

  a good idea like basically when you open [TS]

  the lid the thing boots which I think [TS]

  makes sense for most people because most [TS]

  people like why you even opening and if [TS]

  you're not going to her and on but if [TS]

  you're an old person who's not used to [TS]

  that happening [TS]

  you can turn off with another NVR have [TS]

  same thing the start time and like the [TS]

  start time has been compared to the [TS]

  happy mac which I don't know you if you [TS]

  guys still have max back with a little [TS]

  happy Mac appear did your first max out [TS]

  that no one hurt so you would turn on [TS]

  the magnets from the original mac and a [TS]

  little tiny pixel art thing Susan Carol [TS]

  pixel art of the original Macintosh with [TS]

  a happy smiling face on it would appear [TS]

  and that was a super important part of [TS]

  the original Macintosh experience along [TS]

  with the whole rest of the GUI and the [TS]

  funny thing called the mouse with the [TS]

  wire and everything like that and lasted [TS]

  for years long after max didn't look [TS]

  like that anymore long after Apple was [TS]

  no longer selling max like that you'd [TS]

  buy like a you know you buy a titanium [TS]

  powerbook you boot it and they would [TS]

  have that picture on and people must be [TS]

  think [TS]

  what is that like people who didn't know [TS]

  the original might like it doesn't look [TS]

  like this computer in front of his like [TS]

  is it like a little square person is it [TS]

  a robot [TS]

  I don't know that you know but it was [TS]

  adorable and it was tradition and and we [TS]

  liked and eventually Apple candidate [TS]

  said when you turn on our computers now [TS]

  you don't see that you just see this [TS]

  apple logo and you know and so we can [TS]

  have a separate debate about Apple's [TS]

  dedication to whimsy and all sorts of [TS]

  other things when happy Mac went away [TS]

  was said the start time going away [TS]

  same thing oh it's all the old [TS]

  traditions or whatever i'm mostly okay [TS]

  with this because you know traditions [TS]

  have their time the happy mask had its [TS]

  time and then it's time was over and the [TS]

  startup chime is I think a vestige of [TS]

  that same age and if anything probably [TS]

  should have gone at the same time [TS]

  because and you know when discussing [TS]

  this you see all the people who are [TS]

  super annoyed by the start time it is [TS]

  kind of annoying and unexpected it's [TS]

  from a time when booting the computer [TS]

  was an event worthy of a sound that is [TS]

  no longer the case because we're letting [TS]

  up [TS]

  first of all you shouldn't be rebooting [TS]

  the computer just went to sleep at night [TS]

  right and it's just not it's not a thing [TS]

  that's done you're not rebooting [TS]

  scratching all time which is the other [TS]

  reason you hear all the chimes back in [TS]

  the nineties in your office for macs [TS]

  right there's the memory protection and [TS]

  one bad programmer taking the whole [TS]

  thing usually a nobody a product but but [TS]

  it's not like that's a vestige of a [TS]

  different age and I think at this point [TS]

  it is more luxurious and more [TS]

  sophisticated to not make a big boom [TS]

  Here I am I'm turning on and yes their [TS]

  reasons like oh well lets me know that [TS]

  it posted correctly and now hear the [TS]

  different sounds for when I have bad ram [TS]

  and it sounds like glasses breaking and [TS]

  there's an argument anyway there's not [TS]

  enough whimsy and the apple stuff [TS]

  although I do think like I said dragging [TS]

  the little buttons down to the the the [TS]

  touch bar from the main screen is [TS]

  slightly where's the goal and same thing [TS]

  with little genie animations and the [TS]

  proofs and all the other crap lot of [TS]

  which have gotten rid of I right but [TS]

  anyway i'm ok with start I'm going away [TS]

  and if you really want it back you can [TS]

  get it back opening the lid and building [TS]

  your thing probably feels weird to us [TS]

  but I think that's mostly that's that's [TS]

  mostly what regular people expect it [TS]

  also gets them out of the business [TS]

  having to find where to put the power [TS]

  button but then it makes it harder for [TS]

  people to figure out you know the sort [TS]

  of hold down the power button for 10 [TS]

  seconds when there's no power button [TS]

  that was a question by the way about [TS]

  touch bar when you're [TS]

  in your touch bar computer freezes how [TS]

  do you like hard reboot it [TS]

  I don't know no I'm sure that I don't [TS]

  know I'm sure there's some combination [TS]

  of things you press but it was much more [TS]

  obvious when there's a key somewhere on [TS]

  there or a button or something like that [TS]

  that had the power symbol on it that i [TS]

  think people are somewhat familiar with [TS]

  and now it's going to be a little trick [TS]

  here I believe you hold down the touch [TS]

  ID button and the volume down circle on [TS]

  the touchstone yeah I'm sure there's [TS]

  some way to do it but like but it is it [TS]

  is less obvious then yeah [TS]

  touch ID is the is the thing that it's [TS]

  there's no like little power some water [TS]

  anyway I'm okay with it surprisingly and [TS]

  I'm the oldest Christian mac user ever [TS]

  yeah I interests on that this is okay [TS]

  with you I don't even know where to go [TS]

  from here i guess now that we're done [TS]

  with follow-up we can start the show [TS]

  thanks 143 sponsors this week [TS]

  Harry's Gasper and back plays and we'll [TS]

  see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental John did [TS]

  any research Marco in kc would let down [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find show know today TV that [TS]

  and if your twitter follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our DC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  what [TS]

  I knew it was gonna be a total follow-up [TS]

  show but there was just so much more to [TS]

  talk about that event that they have the [TS]

  event that changed the macworld sort of [TS]

  maybe well it was really what's changing [TS]

  the macro is the slow neglected to [TS]

  things are not mention it i'm not that [TS]

  what changes the macworld is not going [TS]

  to be announced in each it's gonna be [TS]

  just like slowly trickled out through [TS]

  press releases and controlled leaks so [TS]

  here's the thing about like all of the [TS]

  the crankiness from from you Margo and [TS]

  also other people about like and [TS]

  neglecting the macro the thing that I [TS]

  find frustrating about it is it's so [TS]

  clear that apples apples messages we [TS]

  care about the mac like they said it in [TS]

  so it's like an uncertain terms like Tim [TS]

  Cook said it will show saying all the [TS]

  interviews like they're not beating [TS]

  around the bush and trying to say well [TS]

  but we can do nice and they're like [TS]

  emphatic like we care about the Mac the [TS]

  Mac is really important to us as a [TS]

  product and again doesn't matter what [TS]

  they say and what they do but what it [TS]

  means is that the message apples trying [TS]

  to send is that they care about the mac [TS]

  and if that's the message they want to [TS]

  send like a day [TS]

  why would they send that message like [TS]

  they're not trying to trick us it's not [TS]

  a trap they they want that to be the [TS]

  message and it's almost as if like we [TS]

  can't do anything in the short-term to [TS]

  really convince you [TS]

  so all we can really do is say like [TS]

  peanut butter onto your products they [TS]

  can't they're not going to come out and [TS]

  say here's what we have in the pipeline [TS]

  for the mac for the next year we realize [TS]

  we've neglected over like that does not [TS]

  their thing but they're totally saying [TS]

  we care about the mac like yourself I [TS]

  think for everybody says apple doesn't [TS]

  care about the mac you have to basically [TS]

  be saying that Apple is like lying to [TS]

  trick you like you know that or you can [TS]

  say they think they care about the mac [TS]

  but they don't know how to care for the [TS]

  mac anymore they're didn't know what the [TS]

  mac needs the mac needs to go elsewhere [TS]

  right but they are totally on the same [TS]

  page the mac is very important to apple [TS]

  it's super important to write the [TS]

  history [TS]

  going forward we care about it and I [TS]

  really hope that is really true from top [TS]

  to bottom because that gives me some [TS]

  some notion that they will actually fix [TS]

  things with their actions later because [TS]

  it would be really weird for them to [TS]

  emphatically say they care about the mac [TS]

  as a reaction to all of us thinking that [TS]

  don't and then just never do anything [TS]

  different like that would be super weird [TS]

  to me [TS]

  so you do you think that there's hope in [TS]

  sight I mean given that they're saying [TS]

  so strongly all weekend we can we care [TS]

  but earlier this episode you're thinking [TS]

  oh there's not gonna be a new mac pro so [TS]

  how do you feel [TS]

  well I didn't macro is not the mac like [TS]

  their vision of the name could be all [TS]

  laptops right but all that would mean [TS]

  it's like well then at least freaking [TS]

  update your laptops are often and like [TS]

  I'm hoping you know all the the angry [TS]

  people are getting the message through [TS]

  like if I if I had my way I would say [TS]

  like say someone says you cannot desktop [TS]

  maximum fine whatever the max just going [TS]

  to be the laptop i would say get rid of [TS]

  all the old model stop doing your thing [TS]

  where you keep around for a long time [TS]

  update your whole line have a lot of a [TS]

  line of products from just under a [TS]

  thousand dollars on up to the jillion [TS]

  dollars that is all modern all nice all [TS]

  updated msme yearly basis do that right [TS]

  and then we'll be you know and then [TS]

  beyond that is ok what you're gonna have [TS]

  desktops to do XYZ but doesn't matter [TS]

  whatever you decide to find the mac [TS]

  whatever technologies involved whatever [TS]

  ports with a reformed factors or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  I'd really don't like this mac line that [TS]

  is littered with like the corpses of old [TS]

  max I really really don't like it it [TS]

  makes the whole product line a minefield [TS]

  and trying to recommend one is bad and [TS]

  you get in these uncomfortable [TS]

  situations no matter when you update and [TS]

  you get into these situations where [TS]

  there's not like a safe 12 by depending [TS]

  on what your needs are like right now if [TS]

  you want to get an inexpensive Mac [TS]

  that's good you know [TS]

  choose one of the other you get an [TS]

  expensive mac or you can get a good Mac [TS]

  but you can't get them both [TS]

  honestly like the old models are still [TS]

  for sale are quite compelling like it's [TS]

  it's it's kind of a shame they shouldn't [TS]

  be because their three year [TS]

  be because their three year [TS]

  not the macbook air with that freaking [TS]

  screen that is not compelling no that's [TS]

  not but like like the old 13-inch [TS]

  macbook pro is still for sale and that's [TS]

  a pretty good buy for what it is the old [TS]

  15 inches you know also still pretty [TS]

  pretty great value honestly but yeah I [TS]

  mean all things all the negativity and [TS]

  and cynicism aside which is not [TS]

  warranted but there is one thing here [TS]

  that I'm optimistic about and and you [TS]

  know you as you said actions speak [TS]

  louder than words and they can say [TS]

  they're committed to the mac and [TS]

  everything but what matters is what they [TS]

  ship and what they show what they do and [TS]

  they did just ship the touch bar [TS]

  well they're shipping touch bar in like [TS]

  a month whatever whatever the ship maybe [TS]

  it's not actually four to five weeks we [TS]

  have whatever it is they're shipping [TS]

  which bar sometimes even when I'm not in [TS]

  reviewers have it yet and so who knows [TS]

  if it's delayed for some reason or if [TS]

  it's just bad supply chain management [TS]

  example can launch a product anymore [TS]

  every touch barmac comes with a free [TS]

  soda comes with a free set of their pods [TS]

  oh that's okay yeah that's what's [TS]

  delaying them so all that aside the [TS]

  touch bar is not just a quick hack to [TS]

  sell this generation macbook pros they [TS]

  have gone deep with this touch bar it is [TS]

  deeply integrated with the hardware [TS]

  levels it has like its tendrils all over [TS]

  the hardware of the computer like the [TS]

  way it's integrated the the complexity [TS]

  of it how it integrates with things like [TS]

  the camera and the microphone allegedly [TS]

  and and the api's for it are really [TS]

  extensive an apple has clearly spent [TS]

  quite a lot of time and effort updating [TS]

  all their apps to use them and bring in [TS]

  partners have all their apps get ready [TS]

  for and everything so this is an area [TS]

  where Apple has put a clear like strong [TS]

  investment into the mac wear it this [TS]

  isn't just like the things they said six [TS]

  months ago [TS]

  hey that we gotta do something you know [TS]

  to sell macbook pros this fall but we [TS]

  don't want to do it a lot of money to [TS]

  actually don't care what the mac anymore [TS]

  so just like come up with some kind of [TS]

  gimmick Rima tack it on there [TS]

  no this isn't that what all this was the [TS]

  bread victor who is a computer genius [TS]

  used to work for apple and you should [TS]

  totally google [TS]

  name and go to the website and watch the [TS]

  videos and get your mind blown by the [TS]

  stuff he shows you he used to work at [TS]

  Apple at one of those you know I don't [TS]

  know if it was a TG then advanced [TS]

  technology group but there was one of [TS]

  those touchy-feely kind of research [TS]

  highfalutin ideas and he left partially [TS]

  because like he had all these great [TS]

  ideas and his group that never went [TS]

  anywhere and according to his tweets [TS]

  this idea this the touch bar essentially [TS]

  he was one of the ideas that was an [TS]

  appellate years ago and I minister of [TS]

  everything apples you know I'm sure [TS]

  they're looking into VR and AR for their [TS]

  car stuff and like all sorts of [TS]

  researcher whatever a lot of times [TS]

  things don't go anywhere they don't end [TS]

  up in a product and then Brad vectors [TS]

  frustration will all but a lot of the [TS]

  Apple service look at all these great [TS]

  ideas we have you never put them into [TS]

  products but Apple is patient and [TS]

  sometimes an idea has its time so it's [TS]

  not as if they worked on the touch bar [TS]

  for eight years but the concept of maybe [TS]

  this is the thing we could do with [TS]

  computers existed appellate years ago [TS]

  and has probably existed as a feature [TS]

  plan for laptops for at least a year or [TS]

  more especially given the sky like blaze [TS]

  which informs a lot about these machines [TS]

  is like that i think apple expected to [TS]

  ship these centers and they did so when [TS]