The Accidental Tech Podcast

193: The Escape Zone

 

  it is currently five past nine on [TS]

  thursday night the apple event was [TS]

  earlier today my beloved virginia tech [TS]

  hokies are presently losing to the [TS]

  University of Pittsburgh i am i am [TS]

  watching it out of the corner of my eye [TS]

  on my iPad on the watch ESPN app which [TS]

  is actually very nice and I am trying [TS]

  desperately to pay attention what you [TS]

  guys are saying rather than watch my [TS]

  beloved Hokies and so if i accidentally [TS]

  let out a cheer may be given that we're [TS]

  losing 2116 a not happy cheer that Marco [TS]

  may have to bleep my apologies but this [TS]

  is what I do for you listeners it would [TS]

  be so much kind of incredible to be to [TS]

  be like perfectly well time we're [TS]

  talking about like you know this new [TS]

  touch bar in cases like to think that [TS]

  come on that would be kind of amazing [TS]

  haha i wouldn't put it past me [TS]

  no promises alright so we do have a an [TS]

  infinitesimally small bit of follow-up [TS]

  get yes alright work within 10 yards [TS]

  next video so even if intestinal small [TS]

  amount of farts 04 joke reference this [TS]

  is this is a football team you're [TS]

  watching [TS]

  yes this is a football game watching I [TS]

  don't know which sport to make terrible [TS]

  jokes about fair enough [TS]

  oh and is it is in the world series [TS]

  tonight as well actually come to think [TS]

  of it and one of the games i mean [TS]

  probably it isn't it like every night I [TS]

  mean is like that's the thing like [TS]

  baseball cards baseball like a DDoS [TS]

  attack but just like every night there's [TS]

  baseball like taking away from [TS]

  baseballers constantly games everywhere [TS]

  everyday that is amazing [TS]

  well done sir so we do have a bit of [TS]

  follow-up and for the first time in like [TS]

  two or three weeks it's not me [TS]

  John what have you been up to lately i [TS]

  did actually make it to an apple store [TS]

  to check out the phones were there this [TS]

  mystery is dedicated trip the only [TS]

  reason I went timely close to you to [TS]

  check out the fonts we're gonna start [TS]

  talking about the ipod yeah well it'll [TS]

  be quick i'll be here's a picture you [TS]

  took with one here's another picture you [TS]

  took with what [TS]

  uh-huh yeah i was gonna send it to them [TS]

  but i decided to and I was helping to [TS]

  clarify he had plenty to clarify which [TS]

  1i want to get it didn't really help me [TS]

  that much because really yeah because i [TS]

  know i have a dilemma i think i can [TS]

  decide what I'm going to do but you know [TS]

  yet so the black one is group [TS]

  there it would look better people didn't [TS]

  touch it but people touch it so it looks [TS]

  gross and has little scratches on it [TS]

  like but we already covered all this [TS]

  ground i think i'm going to think what's [TS]

  gonna end up happening is I'm going to [TS]

  experience the worst of all possible [TS]

  worlds because what I think i'm going to [TS]

  do is buy a jet black one and try using [TS]

  without a case and then eventually [TS]

  decided that I can't handle the outer [TS]

  case because it looks too i'm looking at [TS]

  scratch too much and then by case for it [TS]

  later after it's already damaged and [TS]

  scratched up and put the leather case on [TS]

  my scratched up jet black iphone 7 at [TS]

  least it wouldn't be a lie at least you [TS]

  you wouldn't have this pristine funder [TS]

  there that you think is totally [TS]

  unscratched but there's actually one [TS]

  scratch on the side i think i can get [TS]

  pretty well but like I I the thing is [TS]

  I've never got all my ipod touches I've [TS]

  had cases for and my one iphone had a [TS]

  case for us i'm just going to give it a [TS]

  try without a case because this one is [TS]

  gritty enough that I feel like all right [TS]

  you know but let's give it a try and can [TS]

  I handle the damage that is inevitably [TS]

  going to happen to this so i think i'm [TS]

  gonna give it a try almost but when i [TS]

  was there but then i remembered that I'm [TS]

  not supposed to buy one until i can [TS]

  renegotiate summarizing thing in like [TS]

  ten days or something and they only had [TS]

  256 gig models anyway so I didn't get [TS]

  but that's what i'm going to do get a [TS]

  jet black one try without a case see how [TS]

  long that lasts i predict that will not [TS]

  last long [TS]

  fair enough now are you planning to get [TS]

  applecare oh yes yes i was still I [TS]

  bought myself this matte black iphone 7 [TS]

  which I stand by a few weeks later is [TS]

  the prettiest iphone i think i've ever [TS]

  ever owned I really genuinely believe [TS]

  it's great-looking it is slicker than [TS]

  anything you can imagine but it's really [TS]

  darn good-looking [TS]

  yes all right field goal that's a good [TS]

  sign only down by two so anyway so I got [TS]

  this job but this excuse me this map [TS]

  black iphone i did not get this is all [TS]

  starting to show you know that's fine [TS]

  the listeners will take this journey [TS]

  with me so tomorrow I got applecare hey [TS]

  I know I got this I got this applecare+ [TS]

  for the very first time and everyone [TS]

  applecare and anything before to the [TS]

  best of my recollection and I feel okay [TS]

  about this [TS]

  meanwhile later that same launch day i [TS]

  order Aaron a [TS]

  a-a-and iphone 7 no applecare+ because [TS]

  she always uses a case we go to a [TS]

  football game this past weekend and her [TS]

  phone falls out of her pocket because [TS]

  why wouldn't it it's slick as a bar soap [TS]

  and she didn't have her case on it yet [TS]

  asked me what happened aaron's phone her [TS]

  three week old phone did you spill water [TS]

  on it [TS]

  no that would actually be kind of okay [TS]

  why do not have a case on it yet how [TS]

  long does it take for the case [TS]

  installation process after after his [TS]

  passion purchases like that bring to the [TS]

  dealer to put the case on you just get [TS]

  take out of the box you put in the case [TS]

  well the rust-proof coating on the [TS]

  undercarriage is very expensive and [TS]

  takes a long time now I'm what ended up [TS]

  happening was we had gotten an apple [TS]

  case but even the silicone cases are [TS]

  ridiculously expensive just wait just [TS]

  wait [TS]

  the silicone cases like 30-40 box and so [TS]

  we had one but we were thinking maybe we [TS]

  can find something that's effectively [TS]

  the same on amazon hadn't opened up the [TS]

  apple one in case we could return it [TS]

  so what ended up happening was in order [TS]

  to attempt to save the forty dollars i [TS]

  think it was for the the silicone case [TS]

  that we had already purchased we ended [TS]

  up now having a hundred thirty dollars [TS]

  with the damage that has yet to be fixed [TS]

  because it's like when your UPS was [TS]

  sitting next to your computer during the [TS]

  thunderstorm not plugged into it [TS]

  yes exactly the case sitting at home and [TS]

  in the box while you drop your phone [TS]

  mhm that's true that's absolutely [TS]

  accurate so so get applecare is really [TS]

  the most story here or put the darn [TS]

  phone in a case and don't be like me [TS]

  this episode is brought to you by [TS]

  Squarespace start building your website [TS]

  today at squarespace.com enter offer [TS]

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  love about Squarespace i always i will [TS]

  use square space for our site i've used [TS]

  it for projects before where people want [TS]

  to ask me to make a website and i said [TS]

  look you don't need me have here [TS]

  Squarespace and show them how to use it [TS]

  and sometimes like you don't get him [TS]

  started for like half hour it looks [TS]

  incredible and they think I did all [TS]

  and it turns out to squarespace graphics [TS]

  just that good and then they can help [TS]

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  support after that they can just ask [TS]

  where space they don't have to ask me [TS]

  it's incredible you get so much built-in [TS]

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  it is usually not worth doing anything [TS]

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  thanks a lot of square space for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah I'm all fired up ready to go to the [TS]

  mac day I'm so happy it but yet [TS]

  asterisks but other for the most part of [TS]

  happy to Mac day we just start by [TS]

  talking about TV then yeah you should [TS]

  visit you to give an accurate simulation [TS]

  of the experience of watching this this [TS]

  presentation [TS]

  well you know that was John on the phone [TS]

  we we cannot skip any where we're going [TS]

  to have to go chronologically so let's [TS]

  start with the TV things have happened [TS]

  for the apple TV and in fact things have [TS]

  happened for more than just the apple TV [TS]

  they have happened for iOS as well the [TS]

  mac well I mean who cares about the max [TS]

  just a mac event so but yeah there's an [TS]

  apple TV app or a TV app i should say [TS]

  for iOS not for the back but for iOS and [TS]

  as well for the TV of course and it's [TS]

  it's all things to all people as long as [TS]

  you don't care about Netflix or Amazon [TS]

  you know this it's weird kind of way [TS]

  that they did TV stuff in this thing [TS]

  although we kind of knew that they were [TS]

  going to with you know justjust off our [TS]

  features no hardware features they [TS]

  haven't fixed the apple TV remote or [TS]

  anything like that they didn't talk [TS]

  about their new you know making [TS]

  experience actually watching TV on your [TS]

  Apple TV better which is hey a good [TS]

  thing to do [TS]

  maybe don't spend too long on it in [TS]

  front of an event supposed to be about [TS]

  Max but whatever but I think it's worth [TS]

  talking about because this presentation [TS]

  kind of show that Apple is still [TS]

  chipping away at apple TV making steady [TS]

  progress but on the other hand I think [TS]

  it also highlighted all the ways that [TS]

  they're behind and I had a couple of [TS]

  thoughts in my head while watching this [TS]

  one was that everything they were [TS]

  showing you like the unified interface [TS]

  TV can be in place to watch all your [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  easier than going to find like what [TS]

  Apple's I watching that thing in or [TS]

  whatever you know having a unified TV [TS]

  thing keeps track of what you're [TS]

  watching him if you're using another apt [TS]

  to watch it trying to bring everything [TS]

  together like their goal of you know I [TS]

  forget what the words are all try to [TS]

  scrub to the video here for like a [TS]

  unified TV experience or whatever you [TS]

  can't always it unified TV experience [TS]

  there you go you can't actually deliver [TS]

  on that until you hit some critical mass [TS]

  of content and it's debatable what that [TS]

  critical mass of content is but [TS]

  obviously we would agree that you just [TS]

  had HBO and it's never gonna be unified [TS]

  interface or you didn't have some of the [TS]

  major sports it wouldn't be unified [TS]

  interface but like I'm not quite sure [TS]

  what that is but I think Apple Apple TV [TS]

  does not yet have a critical mass of [TS]

  content and you may sit as dude based [TS]

  solely on netflix not participating in [TS]

  this that is enough at this point to say [TS]

  no because people want their next week's [TS]

  they have exclusive content people like [TS]

  it if that's not part of the experience [TS]

  so much for unified it's already [TS]

  bifurcated as just gonna split or even [TS]

  more for things like local sports that [TS]

  you can get so the gold unified [TS]

  experience is fine but as discussed many [TS]

  many times in the past if you're not [TS]

  going to do the omniverse box thing you [TS]

  can never present a unified interface [TS]

  unless you literally contain all the [TS]

  contents are also watching TV and there [TS]

  I don't think they're close to that for [TS]

  most people because it's always going to [TS]

  be something that's not in apple TV or [TS]

  not in the TV app and apple TV for most [TS]

  people [TS]

  few people who only watch things that [TS]

  are in their fine but like if that's [TS]

  their goal they need to work on the [TS]

  business side of this to figure out if [TS]

  we had these content providers we can [TS]

  get you know we will cover eighty [TS]

  percent of the of the viewing public [TS]

  needs or whatever and I'm sure the [TS]

  changes from country to country and [TS]

  region to region but there I don't think [TS]

  they're closed now so that's depressing [TS]

  but that's nothing new technology is due [TS]

  entirely business deals and the next [TS]

  thing is the TV button the the icon on [TS]

  the remote for the TV button like that [TS]

  it's kind of the home button with you [TS]

  know when you're pressing you go back to [TS]

  the screen with all the little [TS]

  rectangles where all your different apps [TS]

  are right but that icon it's printed on [TS]

  the remote is also the little glyph [TS]

  that's on the TV app [TS]

  and so in the demo they showed if you go [TS]

  to the TV app launch it and like as a [TS]

  bunch of things you're watching and you [TS]

  click on one of them like Game of [TS]

  Thrones and your truck off into the HBO [TS]

  a poor you're watching Game of Thrones [TS]

  and then you hit the TV icon it takes [TS]

  you back to the TV application not back [TS]

  to the screen with a bunch of little [TS]

  rectangles and it's kind of like em this [TS]

  button and this this thing go together [TS]

  and like it should have been there from [TS]

  the beginning but it could be read [TS]

  conned in but either way it kind of [TS]

  changes the fundamental experience I [TS]

  think for the better kind of the same [TS]

  way the apple watch experience with [TS]

  changes like look people don't want to [TS]

  go back to basically springboard on [TS]

  their apple TV all the time it's [TS]

  supposed to be a television watching [TS]

  devices if you're watching television [TS]

  the television watching should be the [TS]

  central thing when you hit the tivo [TS]

  button you go back to you well that's [TS]

  not a good example is always takes me [TS]

  back to the stupid main Tebow central [TS]

  whatever anyway [TS]

  Reese entering the center of gravity of [TS]

  the tale of apple TV on television I [TS]

  think it's a good idea but then now all [TS]

  of a sudden the appletv reframed in this [TS]

  way less as a like humongous ipad that [TS]

  you don't touch you know like it's just [TS]

  like a big ipod you know less like a [TS]

  springboard is the heart of everything [TS]

  right [TS]

  spring bars not the heart of everything [TS]

  the TV app is the heart of apple TV [TS]

  because it's all about watching TV and [TS]

  sometimes you want to play games or [TS]

  whatever really you want to be using TV [TS]

  app and reframed like that then again [TS]

  you see how far behind on their where [TS]

  the user profiles how can i switch shoot [TS]

  like my kids think we're all their apps [TS]

  are going oh there's like up next or [TS]

  whatever yeah fine if you live alone and [TS]

  only one person ever watch TV shows at [TS]

  the same time that's great how do i [TS]

  switch to you know a different account [TS]

  with a different apple idea with the [TS]

  same Apple ID all those things that [TS]

  netflix has long since figured out is [TS]

  when you want to thats like that you can [TS]

  pick who you want to be and you have [TS]

  your own cue of stuff and you have your [TS]

  own thing that you watched last and i'm [TS]

  not going to go up to it and find out [TS]

  the next things up next for me is like [TS]

  you know some Disney Channel show that [TS]

  my daughter was watching that I don't [TS]

  want to watch right there so far behind [TS]

  just the netflix app let alone other [TS]

  full television experience you know [TS]

  attempts to be unified thing so I'm glad [TS]

  apple TV is making progress i think [TS]

  they're moving in the right direction [TS]

  but they're still behind and the remote [TS]

  sucks well how do you really feel you [TS]

  know I was really excited [TS]

  did to see the live sports stuff and [TS]

  granted as we've already discussed i am [TS]

  not at all watching college football [TS]

  right now but being able to just say to [TS]

  siri you know put on the Virginia Tech [TS]

  game or what or what have you that [TS]

  that's really powerful and really [TS]

  awesome but it works when it works which [TS]

  I meanwhile I'm going on faith that it [TS]

  generally does but that that's really [TS]

  exciting and that's like you said its [TS]

  movements in the right direction but I I [TS]

  just have a hard time thinking that for [TS]

  me this is going to be much of an [TS]

  improvement because generally speaking [TS]

  when im using the apple TV which I do [TS]

  darn near daily i'm using flex or i'm [TS]

  using netflix or occasionally i'm using [TS]

  the standard music app it's very rare [TS]

  i'm doing anything else [TS]

  so having to go for I guess how this [TS]

  would work is I would hit the TV what [TS]

  was once the home button to go to the TV [TS]

  app and then I guess hit again to go to [TS]

  springboard I don't know it might take [TS]

  you back to the springboard you think [TS]

  you did you haven't first launched apple [TS]

  TV i have no idea where we saw a demo [TS]

  with two seconds worth of interaction [TS]

  will find out when we get the OS update [TS]

  i suppose but anyway if if going back to [TS]

  springboard is via the appletv a prime [TS]

  sorry the TV app always that's actually [TS]

  going to be a disappointing change for [TS]

  me but i hope i really really hope that [TS]

  in the future the netflix and amazon [TS]

  stuff gets squared away so that they can [TS]

  be included because amazon is going to [TS]

  be important too soon because of the [TS]

  Grand Tour [TS]

  like I said netflix is where we watch [TS]

  pretty much any TV that isn't on you [TS]

  know terrestrial television so and in [TS]

  Plexus for movies and other things so I [TS]

  feel like this is a step in the right [TS]

  direction but it's not there yet and man [TS]

  i'm hopeful though I'm super hopefully [TS]

  even though i don't expect anything to [TS]

  actually happen [TS]

  Apple has a lot of work to do if it [TS]

  wants to get these things and like get [TS]

  netflix on board this is the unified TV [TS]

  experience you need to have netflix in [TS]

  there get amazon to have a thing like [TS]

  integrate make sure the people who [TS]

  should be integrating do make sure [TS]

  plexes integrated like if you really [TS]

  want to be unified you have to reach out [TS]

  and it's really hard to get it looks on [TS]

  board when Apple keeps making more [TS]

  she's about all we're gonna be a make [TS]

  her own content like they're doing that [TS]

  reality show and cookies talking about [TS]

  well you know we were looking into [TS]

  funding content we like making your own [TS]

  content is directly competing with [TS]

  Netflix and Amazon who were also making [TS]

  their own content and I i think it's [TS]

  easier to work with something like HBO [TS]

  which also makes it on content with HBO [TS]

  has no pretensions to make a digital [TS]

  platform for television watching like [TS]

  they're not selling little Punk's like [TS]

  you connect to your TV they don't sell [TS]

  network services they're all about the [TS]

  content so that is a little bit more of [TS]

  a straightforward thing but anyway this [TS]

  is the plan they got work to do so while [TS]

  we're waiting for the new Apple TV with [TS]

  a non crappy remote to come out [TS]

  hopefully all the apples little business [TS]

  people are scurrying around trying to [TS]

  get these deals happen doing whatever it [TS]

  takes or just don't be a TV platform [TS]

  like you're going to play in the state [TS]

  game and try to friday unified interface [TS]

  then provide a unified integrates I [TS]

  don't want to see you know 10 years from [TS]

  now three or four islands of content [TS]

  with their own apps in their own [TS]

  ecosystems totally separate from each [TS]

  other so annoying all right anything [TS]

  else about the TV i know i know Marco [TS]

  you are really excited to talk about it [TS]

  some more but oh yes I care so much [TS]

  about television you know you see that [TS]

  and I know to some degree you're being [TS]

  silly but don't you watch all of your TV [TS]

  through the apple TV [TS]

  yeah and I don't care about it [TS]

  whatsoever like that to me and I the [TS]

  apple TV is something that I its I [TS]

  country the appletv the way a lot of [TS]

  like our friends who love ipad so much [TS]

  treat the mac it's like it's a thing [TS]

  that i use i choose it as the best of a [TS]

  whole bunch of tools i don't care about [TS]

  and i use it and I don't really think [TS]

  about it I I don't have a lot of passion [TS]

  for TV or TV related things or [TS]

  tv-related boxes the appletv the new [TS]

  Apple TV box is largely fine [TS]

  it could be better in a lot of ways i [TS]

  think it will always just be fine [TS]

  the old one was always just fine also [TS]

  it's the apple TV has a product line has [TS]

  been around for quite some time and has [TS]

  always been fine so I expected to [TS]

  continue to be fine if we continue to [TS]

  use it on a regular basis but really [TS]

  just never think about it at all except [TS]

  i'm using it doesn't work I think you'll [TS]

  appreciate the up next thing because if [TS]

  you actually use that TV app it's easier [TS]

  way to get back what was i doing [TS]

  before on the appletv if it hasn't [TS]

  retain state on the thing to be able to [TS]

  just go to that except the things that i [TS]

  that i watch most often our netflix and [TS]

  flex which i'm pretty sure will probably [TS]

  never be in it not being that it's okay [TS]

  I hear you you know it's the kind of [TS]

  thing like i don't i don't have cable so [TS]

  I'm cable lock in so i can I i don't use [TS]

  any apps that require cable login I i do [TS]

  have HBO Go now whichever 1i have one of [TS]

  the HBO now but I've actually been thank [TS]

  you i'm actually been nothing about [TS]

  canceling because we hardly ever [TS]

  watching Miley watch up in bursts and [TS]

  you can always turn it off and turn [TS]

  around again [TS]

  touchdown oh nevermind damn but [TS]

  regardless i don't think i'm i'm going [TS]

  to possibly ever see this TV app or if i [TS]

  do it will be something that gets in my [TS]

  way that that you know I have to like [TS]

  click the the fake home button one more [TS]

  time out of to get to what i really want [TS]

  to watch all right anything else in the [TS]

  apple TV is your team losing it [TS]

  they are losing I thought we had a [TS]

  touchdown which would put us somewhat [TS]

  comfortably in the lead but I was [TS]

  mistaken [TS]

  really you know we forgot to mention [TS]

  something they Apple opened the keynote [TS]

  with a really lovely video on [TS]

  accessibility I mean that genuinely I [TS]

  completely forgot to mention that I [TS]

  thought that was really cool and they [TS]

  said that they're going to our I guess I [TS]

  think it's already there i just haven't [TS]

  looked at it yet they're they're going [TS]

  to have like a top-level so-to-speak [TS]

  accessibility page on their website [TS]

  which we should check out and we'll find [TS]

  it and put a link in the show notes but [TS]

  I thought that was a really great video [TS]

  and and in many ways I think that's [TS]

  Apple at its best and and I just wanted [TS]

  to applaud them for it because I thought [TS]

  that was really good stuff [TS]

  Apple has always been really good with [TS]

  accessibility stuff like you know they [TS]

  haven't been perfect [TS]

  by all means anybody use the technology [TS]

  will tell you the various times have [TS]

  been perfect but compared to what almost [TS]

  everyone else in the industry does [TS]

  apples accessibility support is just [TS]

  world-class it's so good and what you [TS]

  get out of the box with apple products [TS]

  for for things like screen readers and [TS]

  and click control thingy all sorts of [TS]

  various technologies a lot of times this [TS]

  kind of is available on other platforms [TS]

  only if you like buy additional software [TS]

  or have additional hardware even [TS]

  and it's just it's it it is so like what [TS]

  you get with apple out of the box with [TS]

  all their products accessibility wise is [TS]

  just ridiculously good compared to [TS]

  everything else in the market like the [TS]

  most important feature of these videos [TS]

  as aside from you know making people [TS]

  think Apple that is a nice company and [TS]

  you know doing all the like the pr [TS]

  affected simply like oh you're this [TS]

  video show you should use a nice company [TS]

  while they are nice company and be that [TS]

  the the other side effect of this is [TS]

  that it exposes people who don't use [TS]

  these features people like me don't use [TS]

  these features for the most part to the [TS]

  fact that they exist in how they work [TS]

  I had no idea that the camera on the [TS]

  iphone will speak to you about who's in [TS]

  the frame and and whether it finds a [TS]

  face and how big the faces so a person [TS]

  who can't see can I take pictures with [TS]

  the with the camera like when do regular [TS]

  people experience these features i don't [TS]

  think most people go into accessibility [TS]

  and turn on accessibility features and [TS]

  created for people who have a bad or no [TS]

  vision or can't hear or someone just [TS]

  experiment with it right [TS]

  most people don't see these features at [TS]

  all and so when you say accessibility [TS]

  maybe people don't even know what you [TS]

  mean like what what do you mean how can [TS]

  a blind person who's an iphone you got [TS]

  to see the screen right people just [TS]

  don't know right and this these things I [TS]

  think show you know what marketers said [TS]

  how far these products go to be usable [TS]

  in situations that regular people don't [TS]

  consider because they don't they don't [TS]

  have if you don't if you don't have [TS]

  these limitations you don't know what [TS]

  thing what affordances are there to help [TS]

  you with him until you need them like [TS]

  it's as we all get old for example i'm [TS]

  sure most of us will be cranking up the [TS]

  text size and all of a sudden will [TS]

  appreciate that feature that we never [TS]

  touched before like my parents used [TS]

  their iphone like six eyes device in [TS]

  like the big mode where I forget what [TS]

  it's called but like you've everything [TS]

  is bigger it's like zoom in it's a non [TS]

  native res and that feature is [TS]

  meaningless to me now but eventually as [TS]

  my vision gets worse [TS]

  suddenly will be like oh I'm glad that's [TS]

  there this video's do a good job of [TS]

  highlighting to both users and [TS]

  developers that this stuff is actually [TS]

  there so that when they do eventually [TS]

  get older and start you know that their [TS]

  sensory perception starts changing [TS]

  they'll know to go and find those and [TS]

  they'll feel good about you know using a [TS]

  product line that that offers easier for [TS]

  developers [TS]

  it's reminding them it's not just about [TS]

  putting late [TS]

  was on your things there's other you [TS]

  know go the extra mile and see what we [TS]

  did with the camera app if you have a [TS]

  camera app you could do something like [TS]

  this to your application will be more [TS]

  accessible [TS]

  alright what else was spoken about free [TS]

  mac stuff there was nothing that person [TS]

  right didn't they talk about iphones [TS]

  briefly talk about how well the apple [TS]

  watch is selling but not giving numbers [TS]

  I don't think and now I mean who cares [TS]

  just talk about max its max I like iOS a [TS]

  penetration of a iOS 10 verses the [TS]

  latest version of Android or whatever [TS]

  that let's let's be honest they were [TS]

  killing time and I don't know why [TS]

  they're coming time they they didn't [TS]

  have like it's not as if there's one [TS]

  thing that filler the second thing you [TS]

  to just make what should have been a [TS]

  much shorter presentation way too long [TS]

  but they did we forgot to mention [TS]

  something about the appletv minecraft is [TS]

  on the appletv is that time I'm not [TS]

  trying to be snarky that's something we [TS]

  care about like is that a big dealers or [TS]

  do you think no one will use that I [TS]

  don't know squat about Minecraft I don't [TS]

  think that's that I mean it it's it's a [TS]

  big deal in Minecraft super popular in [TS]

  terms of people buy and play it but [TS]

  minecraft is available on like every [TS]

  platform in the universe [TS]

  so the fact that it's on apple TV now [TS]

  yeah you have parody good but you know [TS]

  alright so i guess i've run out of [TS]

  reasons to stall other than to say that [TS]

  tech is up 22 21 / pit I let's talk [TS]

  about the mac overall I feel like this [TS]

  is okay i think this was good i [TS]

  certainly have been left I've there's [TS]

  certain things that I'm disappointed by [TS]

  but in the grand scheme of things these [TS]

  new macbook pros look really darn good [TS]

  really really good [TS]

  I'm amped about the one they call the [TS]

  touch bar now I'm I i don't know if i'll [TS]

  like it but tentatively that looks good [TS]

  i'm excited i'm excited to try it [TS]

  even though i don't plan on buying one [TS]

  and i'm not going to get one from work [TS]

  for two years but anyway i'm excited to [TS]

  try it i am sad although completely [TS]

  unsurprised that they don't have like a [TS]

  magic keyboard update that included it i [TS]

  understand that leaving that screen on [TS]

  would surely take and not insignificant [TS]

  amount of battery power [TS]

  but the magic keyboard is rechargeable [TS]

  now so who really cares if I have to [TS]

  charge it once connected with a wire and [TS]

  then you wouldn't have a problem [TS]

  I mean that I wouldn't want to be an [TS]

  animal but I but no I mean I i would [TS]

  love to see Magic keyboard that had this [TS]

  touch bar on it i don't expect it will [TS]

  happen but it would be neat and I say [TS]

  that in part because that all my use the [TS]

  desktop is an imac and certainly today [TS]

  there was no real talk about anything [TS]

  for the desktop but I I can't say I'm [TS]

  surprised by that either I mean what are [TS]

  they really gonna do the imac there's [TS]

  not really any new chips are there in [TS]

  and outside of maybe a new fancy [TS]

  keyboard wired or wireless or maybe I [TS]

  guess you could put different ports on [TS]

  you could put us PC ports on it but [TS]

  that's not that remarkable to me so I'm [TS]

  not surprised there's not a desktop [TS]

  activity nobody really thought the mac [TS]

  pro would be updated am i right i mean [TS]

  come on [TS]

  we talked about this last week with [TS]

  Marco said the same thing like it if [TS]

  we're going to do the imac at all just [TS]

  USB seaports and we mentioned a another [TS]

  fancy keyboard but well that's not [TS]

  entirely true the I believe the cable [TS]

  lake CPUs are available roughly for the [TS]

  imac i'm not sure like if they're in [TS]

  volume really yet but technically new [TS]

  CPUs are basically available for the [TS]

  imac now I know but none of us expected [TS]

  the imac to come or i didnt pro or the [TS]

  mac mini expected the imac really the [TS]

  imac has been located the last two Falls [TS]

  like it made sense like it is right on [TS]

  schedule for damage me updated i'm [TS]

  guessing it's it probably is not far off [TS]

  like i mean i wouldn't expect it like [TS]

  next week i'm guessing it's not going to [TS]

  be like another year until the next time [TS]

  a cup it's probably gonna be a few [TS]

  months maybe I don't know how that [TS]

  you're more optimistic than I am I like [TS]

  i said in the last show I think they [TS]

  should keep updating imac but i have dim [TS]

  hopes that they will like it because i [TS]

  mean it i don't understand the reason [TS]

  behind the cadence of like doing imac [TS]

  update so faithfully and then just [TS]

  dropping it but i totally expected not [TS]

  to have any desktop max of this thing at [TS]

  all [TS]

  well the thing is like you know with it [TS]

  it doing an update when it's when it's a [TS]

  fairly minor processor and motherboard [TS]

  chipset update it is not that hard [TS]

  doesn't take that much engineering work [TS]

  for Apple you know not not anymore [TS]

  engineer with any other updates is like [TS]

  and and it used to be not that long ago [TS]

  so that every time there was a new [TS]

  chipset out for either the macbook the [TS]

  macbook pro the macbook air or the imac [TS]

  got updated like within a month of the [TS]

  neutral coming out so it's only been in [TS]

  these recent years with all the work has [TS]

  been like Apple skipping generations and [TS]

  Intel having weird delays [TS]

  it's only been in those years that we [TS]

  started having these things are apples [TS]

  kind of like deciding whether they want [TS]

  to bother updating things I mean it used [TS]

  to just be assumed of course they would [TS]

  update their main computers with the new [TS]

  ships that came out and so the imac line [TS]

  of chips has not had those problems that [TS]

  all the mobile ones have had with intel [TS]

  so the imax have actually been updated [TS]

  on a regular basis until right now and [TS]

  it's a little questionable why wasn't [TS]

  there now and I guess the answer will [TS]

  will not be parents until whenever it is [TS]

  that next time we'll figure out like you [TS]

  know why why did not get updated now I [TS]

  guess but well i think i think i have an [TS]

  answer though because if you look at [TS]

  wikipedia which is clearly the source of [TS]

  all human knowledge never incorrect the [TS]

  kb lake wikipedia entry says that it [TS]

  began shipping manufacturers no msn [TS]

  second quarter this year mobile chips [TS]

  have started shipping with more kb lake [TS]

  desktop ships to be released in the [TS]

  coming months or early next year [TS]

  so what makes you think that they're [TS]

  available for the imac right now I don't [TS]

  want people on Twitter told me i could [TS]

  be wrong if you want random people in [TS]

  the chat room are pointing out that if [TS]

  they are available it's almost certainly [TS]

  not the ones with the fancy iris [TS]

  graphics that Apple always likes fair [TS]

  enough alright so that could be the [TS]

  reason so that it could be as simple as [TS]

  that [TS]

  also I think it's worth pointing out [TS]

  like we heard from a lot of people [TS]

  because like you Intel officially quote [TS]

  launched cable a good month or two ago [TS]

  whatever it was and we immediately hurt [TS]

  anybody and Twitter saying how can Apple [TS]

  release skylake laptops now and not [TS]

  cabling and of course the reason why is [TS]

  because when intel announced the launch [TS]

  it means nothing [TS]

  I hit that it's like Intel's basically [TS]

  saying these chips will be available [TS]

  sometime maybe in the future and get the [TS]

  actual time that you can ship computers [TS]

  with the with the right ones for the [TS]

  computers might be you know two to 12 [TS]

  months away from that period anyway [TS]

  maybe like I don't think it's a big deal [TS]

  from everything that we've read about it [TS]

  from we know about so far it seems like [TS]

  it is not really something that you [TS]

  should be like really waiting up for Sky [TS]

  lake was a big deal keep you awake [TS]

  really isn't i also have another [TS]

  important update for you it's 29 1 21 [TS]

  tech the good guys winning this is a [TS]

  basketball game you're watching a lot of [TS]

  scoring going on here [TS]

  well you know football hits sometimes [TS]

  there's it's a more offensive and [TS]

  defensive game if you're voting for the [TS]

  the Hoodoo user what are you doing [TS]

  hokey but it's okay is it was like that [TS]

  that that uh the ringer of an auburn [TS]

  game they had where Oliver was up like [TS]

  50-something sex that's only do that [TS]

  when you see I guess right [TS]

  ok so that no desktop is no imac updates [TS]

  it's unclear whether or not k be like is [TS]

  available tipster saying yes I'm seeing [TS]

  know everything the matter if it's [TS]

  available is this lead times the getting [TS]

  into computers and apple recently has [TS]

  not been that spry about like as soon as [TS]

  the chips are ready we're going to be [TS]

  ready to go [TS]

  like that's kind of more of the old [TS]

  apple and this new one is like don't [TS]

  even wake me up until they're available [TS]

  in volume and the next generation is [TS]

  about to come out [TS]

  yeah then maybe we'll incorporate them [TS]

  into a computer of some kind when Apple [TS]

  delays on things like and we know that [TS]

  this is probably Intel delay here but [TS]

  when Apple glaze on things [TS]

  what I'm saying is we know we don't [TS]

  really have to make excuses for Apple [TS]

  anymore like that they're there they're [TS]

  the biggest corporation the world's most [TS]

  of the time they have tons of resources [TS]

  that they can choose to devote to [TS]

  updating the computers to new components [TS]

  to come out for them it isn't that hard [TS]

  it doesn't take a lot of time or money [TS]

  relative to what they make from them and [TS]

  what they have in the company so we [TS]

  don't need to excuse them it is up to [TS]

  them to update things and it is my [TS]

  opinion they should not be slackers [TS]

  about that or skip generations be simply [TS]

  because they don't feel like it [TS]

  fair enough so sadness about well maybe [TS]

  not sadness about the imac I think we [TS]

  can all agree that's reasonably expected [TS]

  sadness but not surprised about the what [TS]

  does that Little Mac called it doesn't [TS]

  come with any devices attached to its [TS]

  dot not going to display the metal roads [TS]

  i got like a tiny man no no no circular [TS]

  one not the circular one it's like more [TS]

  of a rounded rect it's not magical back [TS]

  row the apple TV here thinking back [TS]

  shoot i can't remember the name of Max [TS]

  small mac small maybe no it's much [TS]

  smaller than that I'm [TS]

  and I little color in the macair the [TS]

  power power mac g4 cube [TS]

  yes that's it oh is that it okay yeah so [TS]

  no power mac g4 cube updates no trashcan [TS]

  updates [TS]

  thank God because on my I wouldn't even [TS]

  pay attention to this show anymore just [TS]

  be watching a football game [TS]

  actually they should update the mac pro [TS]

  isn't that what you're doing [TS]

  oh speaking of the mac pro I'm i was i [TS]

  was surprised at how many random angry [TS]

  people there were on Twitter about there [TS]

  being no macro update which shows that [TS]

  this is weird sort of Venn diagram [TS]

  between people who understand the mac [TS]

  pro hasn't been updated in forever but [TS]

  don't follow the stuff enough to know [TS]

  that there was no way in hell no micro [TS]

  is coming up in this thing so it's kind [TS]

  of weird that the anger has spread [TS]

  beyond the people who were actually [TS]

  going to buy 12 just the general public [TS]

  being embarrassed for apple for having [TS]

  this quote-unquote pro computer that [TS]

  pretty soon the watch will be faster [TS]

  that well because you know even if [TS]

  you're not about to buy a mac pro the [TS]

  fact that they have this high-end that [TS]

  the highest computer lineup that has [TS]

  been so neglected high and air super air [TS]

  quotes yeah well its timing if you do [TS]

  parallel stuff it's still the fastest [TS]

  its facets on no other benchmarks but on [TS]

  that barely barely or you get like five [TS]

  iPads yes I said probably not even that [TS]

  night but the reason this matters is [TS]

  what you argue John in your your [TS]

  supercar halo car thing that like it [TS]

  matters whether Apple is treating its [TS]

  high-end well if you are a Mac user at [TS]

  all because of Apple is neglecting [TS]

  significant portions of its user base [TS]

  for the mac lineup and you are a Mac [TS]

  user or you are heavily invested in the [TS]

  mac as a platform that should be a [TS]

  warning sign for you that like that's [TS]

  just off warning bells to say like wait [TS]

  a minute maybe the health of my platform [TS]

  or the future my platform is not as as [TS]

  healthier guaranteed as I as I would [TS]

  like because if they're neglecting this [TS]

  whole big area of it maybe there are [TS]

  worse things to come for me or maybe [TS]

  they they are in putting resources into [TS]

  it so it is totally relevant whether you [TS]

  buy a mac pro or not how apple treats [TS]

  their pro customers [TS]

  yeah i'm just like they crossed over the [TS]

  point now where where it is is moved [TS]

  beyond and now is affecting the broader [TS]

  base of people and it's kind of like as [TS]

  if a [TS]

  that they were still selling the [TS]

  original dodge viper like the original [TS]

  original dodge viper did not change in [TS]

  any way and it would be like the great [TS]

  hello car for dodge chrysler but [TS]

  eventually it becomes an embarrassment [TS]

  because the original Viper was a [TS]

  terrible car so many ways and just can't [TS]

  compete with today's super cars like the [TS]

  it would be like 900 your your your halo [TS]

  car for dodge can be beaten off the line [TS]

  by like a volkswagen GTI now I mean it's [TS]

  just be or even a lesser car i keep it [TS]

  stops being a halo car when it loses in [TS]

  single-threaded performance the two you [TS]

  know run-of-the-mill computers so anyway [TS]

  so no mac pro not surprising [TS]

  no mac mini not surprising no imac [TS]

  almost entirely not surprising that [TS]

  leaves us with the portable max so the [TS]

  macbook pro is I was talking about a few [TS]

  minutes ago my proposal can really could [TS]

  I aesthetically it's looking really good [TS]

  i think what they've done is really cool [TS]

  the touch bar looks great and let that [TS]

  we can go through this line by line but [TS]

  man if I it it's to the point that [TS]

  between this external display which [TS]

  actually we should talk about as well [TS]

  that that I haven't worked the 4k [TS]

  display at work and these new macbook [TS]

  pros [TS]

  I'm starting to doubt my newfound love [TS]

  for my desktop imac existence because i [TS]

  love this 5k imac i love it to death but [TS]

  I just can't help but think to myself on [TS]

  you know I could get one of these 4k or [TS]

  maybe the fancy 5k LG Display I could [TS]

  get one of these new macbook pros life [TS]

  could be pretty good that way so I don't [TS]

  know one of you guys is probably upset [TS]

  about this so talking to talk me out of [TS]

  spending money i don't have that on a [TS]

  computer i don't need probably i'm [TS]

  probably the most upset but Mr go first [TS]

  to say what you like so I i will go back [TS]

  to your earlier point which I will you [TS]

  know I'd probably i'm talking about this [TS]

  point yet but basically the touch bar [TS]

  looks really cool i'm sure it's going to [TS]

  be a really big deal for people when [TS]

  they are working on their laptops and no [TS]

  doubt that is a lot of people a lot of [TS]

  the time however it is not on every [TS]

  laptop apple sells a lot [TS]

  of the macbook air class computers and [TS]

  so for everyone who bought the macbook [TS]

  adorable / macbook one or for everyone [TS]

  who buys the the old or kind of still [TS]

  for sale but old macbook air or the new [TS]

  whatever we're going to call the low and [TS]

  configuration of the macbook that was [TS]

  named in the chat where that I liked a [TS]

  lot so far are macbook escape or the [TS]

  fbook madam a quick escape is part of my [TS]

  favorite but the air pro was was an [TS]

  efenburu were also very good but a [TS]

  netbook escape is really good anyway so [TS]

  all those people that's a lot of mac [TS]

  buyers not to mention all the desktop [TS]

  buyers and granted i know Latin from [TS]

  apartment and desktop so i know the [TS]

  desktop buyers don't count for as much [TS]

  but all those people and the entire mac [TS]

  user base that has a computer already [TS]

  before today does not have a touch bar [TS]

  and even if you are one of the people [TS]

  who has one of the new MacBook Pros with [TS]

  the touch bar that is only actually [TS]

  accessible to you when you are using it [TS]

  in its regular mode so not in clamshell [TS]

  mode on a desk not like as a second [TS]

  screen like with a main screen an [TS]

  external keyboard and mouse like only [TS]

  one using those particular models of [TS]

  computer and only when you're using them [TS]

  like right on them in in like normal [TS]

  quote laptop mode that is when the touch [TS]

  bar can be used it is going to be a [TS]

  really great convenience for the people [TS]

  who use it in that way but I don't think [TS]

  it's going to radically take over the [TS]

  the mac experience yet and become like a [TS]

  must-have accessory until it is [TS]

  available across the entire lineup [TS]

  laptops and desktops in some form that [TS]

  might become more interesting than you [TS]

  know when you can kind of assume that [TS]

  all modern max habit but you can assume [TS]

  that today as either a user or developer [TS]

  so I think it's gonna take a while [TS]

  before that becomes a must-have thing it [TS]

  will be convenient from day one and [TS]

  surely you know apples apps having a [TS]

  built-in is nice you know and and that's [TS]

  like that's a lot of apps that people [TS]

  use on the mac is our apples built-in [TS]

  app so that's good but it's gonna take [TS]

  awhile i really like when the first [TS]

  retina macbooks came out in 2012 [TS]

  it took a long time for most of what you [TS]

  saw on screen to be retina it took a [TS]

  couple years at least four apps and [TS]

  websites and everything to update for [TS]

  the tux bars and take a while before you [TS]

  can really get into using it with many [TS]

  of your apps and everything so i would [TS]

  say for UK see you looking at these [TS]

  today and feeling bad you don't have one [TS]

  it's the kind of thing where if you're [TS]

  buying a new laptop if you were if you [TS]

  were buying one anyway then I think you [TS]

  should consider the touch bar as an [TS]

  important thing to have you know [TS]

  probably and all this should be preface [TS]

  by saying that none of the three of us [TS]

  were at the event [TS]

  none of the three of us have review [TS]

  units so none of the three of us have [TS]

  ever touched these or handle these or [TS]

  seniors in real life so all this could [TS]

  be out the window the first time that [TS]

  the world can get more experience with [TS]

  these and we know more about them and [TS]

  how they work in reality but i would say [TS]

  probably that if you're buying today or [TS]

  if you recently bought something you [TS]

  don't want to buy another thing you [TS]

  don't really have to feel bad yet that [TS]

  you don't have this touch bar because [TS]

  it's gonna be awhile before apps can [TS]

  assume that a lot of people have it and [TS]

  it's gonna be awhile before i have to [TS]

  take advantage of it and we still don't [TS]

  know how much of a must-have thing it [TS]

  will be in practice until the things [TS]

  wrapped for a while and we can kind of [TS]

  look more objectively after its kind [TS]

  after the cool has kind of rubbed off [TS]

  and weave and we will use them ourselves [TS]

  we know people who use them [TS]

  you've gotten like some long-term [TS]

  opinions from ourselves or others about [TS]

  like how useful is actually in practice [TS]

  so for now you don't need to feel that [TS]

  you should feel bad [TS]

  not because you don't touch bar but [TS]

  because you don't have a macbook pro [TS]

  with like modern internals its way [TS]

  faster than one you have now that bad [TS]

  feeling that bad feeling remains so [TS]

  question for both of you and I'll start [TS]

  with Marco do you think that a keyboard [TS]

  with a touch bar will ever exist for a [TS]

  desktop mac or do you think it will [TS]

  always always always be four laptops and [TS]

  if yes if you think it will one day [TS]

  exist for desktop Mac would apple just [TS]

  completely yo go bananas and make it [TS]

  wired only or do you think you would be [TS]

  just basically a revision of the smart [TS]

  keyboard as it is today [TS]

  I honestly don't know I I'm leaning [TS]

  towards no [TS]

  and no one's gonna like the reason why [TS]

  but i'm leaning towards no and y know it [TS]

  I know the reason you probably do we all [TS]

  know the reason I'm leaning towards no [TS]

  because I you know a guy I think putting [TS]

  the touch bar as it exists today into [TS]

  something the size and price of the [TS]

  magic keyboard i think will be very [TS]

  challenging and if there's probably a [TS]

  lot of constraints there many of which [TS]

  are self-imposed by Apple but I [TS]

  basically don't like I don't see them [TS]

  want to make their keyboard bigger I [TS]

  don't see the market having much [TS]

  tolerance for them making their keyboard [TS]

  more expensive is already pretty [TS]

  expensive and i don't really see them [TS]

  you know wanting to have multiple models [TS]

  of keyboard that they sell I mean they [TS]

  can barely self-referrals at all anymore [TS]

  so you know I don't see that happening [TS]

  but ultimately the biggest reason why I [TS]

  don't honestly see this happening even [TS]

  if they get over the technical stuff [TS]

  here comes is that I just don't think [TS]

  Apple gives a damn about desktops [TS]

  anymore and that's not to say that [TS]

  they're never gonna make one again but i [TS]

  but I just think the focus [TS]

  I mean look you can barely get Tim Cook [TS]

  to pretend to care about the mac at all [TS]

  allmax you know there's a reason why Tim [TS]

  didn't say a lot today about the mac you [TS]

  know that was delegated to fill in Craig [TS]

  because they I'm pretty sure care deeply [TS]

  about the mac like they seem like [TS]

  they're really like mac champions inside [TS]

  the company at a very high level but Tim [TS]

  I don't think is I don't think Tim cares [TS]

  I don't think he even hide that very [TS]

  well I don't think he even honestly [TS]

  tries I don't think Tim cares and so as [TS]

  long as the company is led by Tim I [TS]

  don't see the max making substantial [TS]

  advances and what I see instead is what [TS]

  we what we see today which is they're [TS]

  going to keep doing what we know what [TS]

  they what they can do to move things [TS]

  along [TS]

  occasionally to be thinner lighter [TS]

  better faster right that's what they do [TS]

  but i don't see a time under tim cook's [TS]

  rule which is probably going to be long [TS]

  i don't see a time of this happening [TS]

  here where team is going to decide that [TS]

  the mac really needs a lot of effort put [TS]

  into it and it needs like [TS]

  no major resources and major [TS]

  prioritization I just don't see that [TS]

  happening so I don't think they're going [TS]

  to put in like the lots of work that it [TS]

  would take and possible profit [TS]

  cannibalization of other products to [TS]

  meaningfully enable this on desktops I [TS]

  just don't see it happening [TS]

  I wish it would but I just don't let's [TS]

  assume for just one moment that you're [TS]

  right that Tim either doesn't care about [TS]

  the mac or let's even go so far as to [TS]

  say he freaking hates the mac i'm not [TS]

  saying he hated what I'm what I'm saying [TS]

  is I just [TS]

  he's obviously not a mac person he died [TS]

  i'm pretty sure he has said on the [TS]

  record multiple times that he does his [TS]

  work on ipads anyway so I i basically I [TS]

  don't think he uses macs very often if [TS]

  at all and and I think he he is very [TS]

  much profit focused and and he looks at [TS]

  where Apple can make the most profit and [TS]

  divert resources there and things that [TS]

  that make still good profit but just [TS]

  less are you know kind of out of his his [TS]

  field of vision i think most of the time [TS]

  so basically I just don't think Tim [TS]

  gives a lot of thought to the mac and i [TS]

  don't think it's a priority for him [TS]

  alright so let's assume that's true and [TS]

  you know it in any degree of of [TS]

  aggressiveness he hates the mac or maybe [TS]

  just doesn't really care [TS]

  maybe it's just another line item like [TS]

  you said let's assume any one of those [TS]

  is true he's a pretty smart man from [TS]

  everything we can tell [TS]

  don't you think he would trust in in his [TS]

  lieutenants and those who do care for [TS]

  the mac to carry it forward like I I [TS]

  don't you tim is the things standing in [TS]

  the way of the mac being this perfect [TS]

  device that you're that you're that [TS]

  you're excited to buy a new one every [TS]

  six months or what have you [TS]

  i I really don't think times the problem [TS]

  here I think it's just that Apple is [TS]

  doing what they think is best and like I [TS]

  think you had said Mark I mean laptops [TS]

  are where are the maximum everyone buys [TS]

  we're weird buying desktops and super [TS]

  weird for you to buying cheese graters [TS]

  and trash cans so I don't think to him [TS]

  is the problem i think it's just that [TS]

  this is where the users are so why not [TS]

  cater to the ninety percent well isn't [TS]

  debatable others even a problem maybe [TS]

  job at the CEO is to be forward-looking [TS]

  like what is this a product line isn't [TS]

  an ascension are in decline and clearly [TS]

  desktop PCs laptop PCs and that whole [TS]

  market are in decline compared to [TS]

  smartphones and possibly even tablets [TS]

  and so he's trying to be forward-looking [TS]

  but not for Apple that's the thing [TS]

  they're not in decline for Apple there [TS]

  in decline for everyone else but until [TS]

  Apple stopped dating for three years [TS]

  they were in decline for apple like [TS]

  Apple has this entire market that could [TS]

  keep taking share from it's a big market [TS]

  it was declined relative to the rest of [TS]

  their business for the rest of the [TS]

  business was growing much faster at this [TS]

  point service revenue is more than mac [TS]

  revenue right based service revenue was [TS]

  growing guess what just passed Mac [TS]

  revenue right so if you are looking [TS]

  where the next big you know where is the [TS]

  next big product that's going to go on a [TS]

  big growth trajectory gonna come from [TS]

  it's not the pc is not the mac that's [TS]

  what Apple currently thinks and so again [TS]

  it's debatable whether the long-term [TS]

  this is a name correct choice i think [TS]

  that were in the painful period now [TS]

  where it's like well look at you gonna [TS]

  do max you're not going to maximum [TS]

  apples like oh no we're gonna do max but [TS]

  they're doing them not with the gust 0 [TS]

  meaning not with the investment that [TS]

  they used to do them and to get back to [TS]

  casey's question now you know do I think [TS]

  they're gonna do a keyboard with a with [TS]

  a touch bar on it the Apple that was [TS]

  still investing heavily in the mac where [TS]

  the mac was like super important and [TS]

  central even even as the iphone was [TS]

  growing and the ipod and other [TS]

  businesses were obviously where the big [TS]

  growth was back oh you know not too many [TS]

  years ago Apple was still heavily [TS]

  investing in the mac because those [TS]

  growing one start off small and the ipod [TS]

  one did a hump and went back down right [TS]

  and so was like well the mac you know we [TS]

  got to keep investing the mac is the [TS]

  ipod looks great and it's big business [TS]

  for us but actually we can see it's on [TS]

  the way back down all the iphones [TS]

  looking great and it's on its way back [TS]

  up but if you look at those line graphs [TS]

  the mac was still in the mix certain [TS]

  point the phone just took off and now [TS]

  every single graph is like here's the [TS]

  iphone company and then there's some [TS]

  lines down there hit near the final axis [TS]

  and those lines like service revenue [TS]

  mcintosh like he just crap like that and [TS]

  once that happens like it's hard to it's [TS]

  hard to justify like is it the right [TS]

  thing for the for the CEO to do to [TS]

  continue to invest that much [TS]

  proportionally in the mac is used to and [TS]

  it's clear that they're not right and so [TS]

  the old Apple [TS]

  I'm saying like good old days but the [TS]

  old apple with the old Apple mix of [TS]

  products in revenue and profits right [TS]

  that apple would have had touch bar [TS]

  keyboards in this presentation today [TS]

  like guaranteed because like Marco said [TS]

  what the hell's the point of this thing [TS]

  even people who have laptops when they [TS]

  set them at their desk you know you're [TS]

  not like laptops are bad organically to [TS]

  sit in front of all day the keyboard not [TS]

  be touching the display like it's like [TS]

  that because it's a portable device and [TS]

  you you know when using portable that's [TS]

  what you got to go with but if you're [TS]

  sitting in a desk your laptop is off the [TS]

  side you have a second monitor your [TS]

  laptop is up on a stand but then you [TS]

  can't use that keyboard using a big [TS]

  keyboard like the touch bar can't be [TS]

  part of the quote-unquote Mac experience [TS]

  at the only place that exists is on [TS]

  keyboard attached to a laptop period so [TS]

  the old Apple would have had it is the [TS]

  old Apple was investing in the mac much [TS]

  more for comprehensible reasons not like [TS]

  out of spite or meanness or whatever now [TS]

  if you would have this discussion with [TS]

  tim cook and and try to convince him [TS]

  that it is important to continue to [TS]

  invest in the Mac you can't say it's [TS]

  because the mac is going to be [TS]

  proportionately larger percentage of [TS]

  apples profit and revenue in the future [TS]

  because probably isn't but you could [TS]

  make the argument that even though look [TS]

  small and the argument I think we may [TS]

  even though it looks small and it's it's [TS]

  not going to come out of nowhere and [TS]

  become a big thing it is as many people [TS]

  who pointed on Twitter and said it was [TS]

  very smelly for whatever the foundation [TS]

  of so many other things apple does [TS]

  you've got the halo car factor for [TS]

  having like the you know highest [TS]

  performance computing device you've got [TS]

  the fact that the development for all [TS]

  you do for the platform that's important [TS]

  most important your company's done on [TS]

  max right you've got the historical a [TS]

  loyalty and fan base you've got the [TS]

  Alpha geeks creatives type angle which [TS]

  we can talk about when we talk about the [TS]

  microsoft studio there are lots of [TS]

  reasons not having to do with how much [TS]

  they sell how much their profit is that [TS]

  the mac is really important and I could [TS]

  make that argument pretty strongly tim [TS]

  cook and I bet people are trying to make [TS]

  that argument but that argument relies [TS]

  on a lot of assumptions are you have to [TS]

  be convinced that if this in this in [TS]

  this therefore this you can't back it up [TS]

  by saying look I don't even need to [TS]

  convince you of like human psychology or [TS]

  customer loyalty or other things like [TS]

  that i can show you that the lines on [TS]

  the graph with dollar sign attached to [TS]

  them and you can because you have to go [TS]

  to it more touchy-feely argument to [TS]

  convey [TS]

  it's tim cook to invest more in the [TS]

  maximum they are currently investing and [TS]

  I'm hope i'm hoping the people who are [TS]

  making that argument inside Apple are [TS]

  winning and that what we're just seeing [TS]

  here is you know what a course [TS]

  correction that they haven't quite [TS]

  corrected all the way and tumble the [TS]

  Intel delays mess things up and they'll [TS]

  be restarted in the next year when they [TS]

  have inevitably reduce reduce this guy [TS]

  like mac pros someday maybe possibly is [TS]

  inevitable [TS]

  well I don't know I liked her cry [TS]

  backtrack from inevitable saying the [TS]

  potential potential mac pro that we [TS]

  might you know if they could still turn [TS]

  this around and sort of get back on an [TS]

  even keel but the the lack of a touch [TS]

  bar external keyboard is a perfect [TS]

  example of how Apple is just not an [TS]

  investing as much in the mac as they [TS]

  used to and it's i think it is an [TS]

  argument to be had whether that is smart [TS]

  or not smart but as fans of Max as all [TS]

  of us on this podcast our friends at max [TS]

  it is painful to see the product that [TS]

  used to be so important to the company [TS]

  being so much less important now I I [TS]

  don't know if I would go that far at all [TS]

  just because they're not updating [TS]

  desktop max with the speed or efficacy [TS]

  that you to approve of doesn't mean they [TS]

  don't care about the mac or any [TS]

  Maccabees the laptops aren't updated [TS]

  forever either [TS]

  well yeah but i think a lot of that was [TS]

  obviously none of us know but if I would [TS]

  wager gas that was relying on Intel to [TS]

  give them a decent reason to make an [TS]

  update or perhaps let's assume that [TS]

  wasn't the issue [TS]

  maybe they were just trying to get this [TS]

  pretty darn fancy touch bar tack and the [TS]

  fancy touch ID tech which apparently is [TS]

  basically a mini apple watch within the [TS]

  device it within the macbook pro that [TS]

  can't have been easy so I I don't think [TS]

  it's fair to characterize Apple as [TS]

  caring as not caring about the mac or [TS]

  caring that much less about them is it's [TS]

  not about carrying it its investment [TS]

  it's not care like don't is not [TS]

  personify the company's and it's like [TS]

  how much money and resources you put [TS]

  into this investment is not it's not [TS]

  like we did that max feelings are hurt [TS]

  or whatever it's a choice about resource [TS]

  allocation right and that's the that's [TS]

  the argument view your design and I and [TS]

  I feel like the perfect examples like [TS]

  even if we buy everything you're saying [TS]

  about the touch bar and and being [TS]

  difficult or whatever it's apparently [TS]

  ready to announce now they could have [TS]

  announced keyboards right alongside it [TS]

  but you know if they felt that was [TS]

  important part of the mac experience and [TS]

  I have done speaking in such bar onto [TS]

  the next topic on the move to is [TS]

  specifically about touch part but we can [TS]

  get done gnashing of teeth over the mac [TS]

  investment [TS]

  well but that's the thing is I really [TS]

  don't i mean i guess there's no way that [TS]

  I'm going to convince you that you're [TS]

  wrong and there's certainly no way [TS]

  you're going to convince me that I'm [TS]

  wrong but I just for the record there is [TS]

  one of the three of us thinks that there [TS]

  are investments happening to the max I [TS]

  am I am as as it sits right now I feel [TS]

  like I'm or desktop Mac guide then then [TS]

  I'm than a portable mac guy but I am [TS]

  really excited about the macbook pros [TS]

  and that is what most mac users use [TS]

  almost everyone uses Matt a macbook pros [TS]

  or perhaps the airs which at this point [TS]

  is near as makes no difference to the [TS]

  President Pro is effectively an air [TS]

  I don't think it's fair to characterize [TS]

  this is a lack of investment i don't [TS]

  think it's fair of the three of us to [TS]

  say Oh putting a mini apple watch next [TS]

  to a mini retina display honest on a box [TS]

  that's physically smaller that has [TS]

  better battery life that is quicker like [TS]

  these are all worthwhile investment and [TS]

  and I don't think it's fair that a bunch [TS]

  of nerds are getting butthurt about the [TS]

  fact that this isn't the thing that they [TS]

  wanted Apple to investment no that's not [TS]

  what this is about it all like even if [TS]

  we ignore all like what we think apples [TS]

  philosophy is and how they choose to [TS]

  investigate we don't know where their [TS]

  money goes because we don't have the [TS]

  level of granularity ignore all that and [TS]

  just treat apples a black box and look [TS]

  at the products they release in when [TS]

  they release them the release cadence of [TS]

  max has changed [TS]

  they released them less often which [TS]

  means that the existing ones that you [TS]

  can buy our worst relative to other [TS]

  things and they also keep selling old [TS]

  ones for much longer [TS]

  that is inarguably affect you could say [TS]

  that's not because they're not investing [TS]

  as much in fact they're investing even [TS]

  more but that dictates that they have to [TS]

  have bigger gaps being products that is [TS]

  probably the only argument you can make [TS]

  this like oh it actually costs so much [TS]

  more money to do the touch bar than the [TS]

  other [TS]

  didn't max but don't worry about it like [TS]

  that the macbook pros they were out [TS]

  there on the market were behind the [TS]

  15-inch macbook pro was an embarrassing [TS]

  product to sell is like this used to be [TS]

  the best like that in the presentation [TS]

  like the best macbook pro and how we [TS]

  made it even better be able to do that [TS]

  pitch because when they replace them the [TS]

  old one is still pretty good [TS]

  you almost piece of crap what the hell [TS]

  was it out ivy bridge or as well [TS]

  whatever the how it had when it has like [TS]

  well like it's ridiculous [TS]

  like that's not and that's we can't we [TS]

  can argue about what the cause of that [TS]

  was but on the outside we can see that's [TS]

  the case that 15-inch macbook pro was [TS]

  not a pro product was not the worst the [TS]

  price their body part wasn't mac pro [TS]

  levels of bed but it was bad and this is [TS]

  their flagship product and so of course [TS]

  when they make a new one it's thinner [TS]

  faster better like yeah that's great [TS]

  it's better faster better we totally [TS]

  agree with all that of course when they [TS]

  compared to the old models just like [TS]

  i'll come on you know how much faster is [TS]

  in our macro you know why is your [TS]

  macbook pro sucked [TS]

  that's why he's so much better like a [TS]

  port like we know like and again I'm i [TS]

  know it sounds negative i'm gonna get [TS]

  even more negative and a little bit [TS]

  these are good these are good genes [TS]

  right but I'm arguments cases on trying [TS]

  to convince you that regardless of what [TS]

  we think about these machines which I [TS]

  think they're pretty darn good and we'll [TS]

  talk about that eventually I promise [TS]

  oh shit i don't think you can say that [TS]

  Apple is putting the same amount of [TS]

  resources into the mac as they used to [TS]

  because the proof is in the products [TS]

  that they release and when they release [TS]

  them and we can argue about what the [TS]

  causes are and stuff like that but i [TS]

  don't think there's an argument to be [TS]

  had that they're doing the same as they [TS]

  used to [TS]

  it's not fair to say that they're [TS]

  putting the same amount of investment as [TS]

  they used to i concur but I what I'm [TS]

  hearing which maybe is a [TS]

  misinterpretation my part of what I'm [TS]

  hearing is all they're ignoring the mac [TS]

  there the the mac is on life-support [TS]

  nobody cares about the mac timko Kate's [TS]

  the mac like I don't say i don't see ya [TS]

  you said all those things not true i [TS]

  mean i-i just it i don't i feel like [TS]

  you're crapping all over that you [TS]

  collective you and not just you 2i mean [TS]

  I saw a lot of just grumbling going on [TS]

  today on Twitter like I feel like [TS]

  everyone's just getting grumpy about [TS]

  touchdown tech everyone's getting around [TS]

  here and Iraq and then our behalf I'm [TS]

  back I'm back we're going to going to [TS]

  you like right correct about tootie's [TS]

  here [TS]

  that's it that's exactly right yeah [TS]

  there is so everyone's getting so upset [TS]

  about all they're not investing enough [TS]

  in the mac and I just personally I don't [TS]

  see it that way at all [TS]

  I agree John that that certainly there [TS]

  was a dark period I perhaps I shouldn't [TS]

  be sweeping the dark period under the [TS]

  rug as quickly as emphatically as is as [TS]

  i am right now but this is a to me this [TS]

  is a clear sign that the mac matters and [TS]

  I mean this is got to have been like [TS]

  this touch bar which I really need to [TS]

  shut up so we can get this we can move [TS]

  on to that the touch bars got to be an [TS]

  unbelievably cool piece of technology [TS]

  and then turned in touch ID as well it [TS]

  that's got to have been hard to create [TS]

  in and again touch ID apparently is [TS]

  being controlled by a mini watch OS and [TS]

  I can't imagine getting an ARM chip in [TS]

  the way that's controlling the touch ID [TS]

  to cooperate and behave nicely with the [TS]

  intel chip that's controlling the rest [TS]

  of the mac that can't have been terribly [TS]

  easy that must have been difficult to do [TS]

  can they not have a little bit of time [TS]

  to do that they can have a just-released [TS]

  other max in between yes and here's the [TS]

  thing by the way Casey like it's worth [TS]

  pointing out here that there's this kind [TS]

  of distortion here that I see a lot in [TS]

  corporate culture especially into in 10 [TS]

  cooks apple that it is indeed a lot of [TS]

  work what they did the team worked [TS]

  really hard on this they did and they [TS]

  should be commended in some kind of [TS]

  price ceremony for how hard they were [TS]

  contacting a level that's very [TS]

  impressive [TS]

  however that doesn't either a absolved [TS]

  them of the the rest of the neglect of [TS]

  the mac line and the land they left of [TS]

  this line the meantime like that was [TS]

  clearly bad management of the lineup and [TS]

  end of the whatever the supply chain [TS]

  whatever led to these long span for [TS]

  these things have been updated and [TS]

  whatever into the mac pro a mac mini and [TS]

  imac still not being updated so it [TS]

  doesn't it doesn't solve that and also [TS]

  you don't get automatic reward just for [TS]

  trying something difficult just for [TS]

  trying something complicated knew it [TS]

  might well be that the touch bar might [TS]

  end up being awesome it we might look [TS]

  back on this time and save men it we [TS]

  can't believe we ever live without this [TS]

  this was such a revolution but first we [TS]

  don't know that yet it might it might [TS]

  not [TS]

  and that doesn't absolve them of the [TS]

  other problems like you know there are [TS]

  some downsides to visit to these new [TS]

  releases which we get to but one of the [TS]

  biggest ones that people are upset about [TS]

  is that these costs a lot more than they [TS]

  used to and that's not insignificant and [TS]

  you know and things were taken away so [TS]

  you know it certainly like there's going [TS]

  to be people who are upset because in [TS]

  certain ways they got worse for them and [TS]

  it doesn't matter like if you if you are [TS]

  buying these things if you were buying [TS]

  like macbook airs in bulk and you had to [TS]

  have been hit a certain price point and [TS]

  now you can't do that anymore [TS]

  I then the back is still selling them [TS]

  well but yeah basically like everyone [TS]

  has it whenever Apple releases something [TS]

  new that these days especially but yeah [TS]

  this is not that new [TS]

  there's always pluses and minuses fix it [TS]

  there's like you know you you move [TS]

  mostly steps forward but usually a [TS]

  couple steps back or sideways and in [TS]

  this release [TS]

  there is a lot of cool new stuff they [TS]

  did get seemingly really impressively [TS]

  thin-and-light they it seems I the [TS]

  battery still ? but if that they [TS]

  reported specs are still reasonable so i [TS]

  assume the better life won't be terrible [TS]

  actually pretty good [TS]

  so if they're able to achieve this thin [TS]

  lightness with those battery games then [TS]

  that's great so that like that's great [TS]

  improvement right [TS]

  the touch bar is mostly great it is [TS]

  probably going to be bad to lose escape [TS]

  keys for a lot of people i think the the [TS]

  idea that only nerds use the escape key [TS]

  i think is wrong i have lots of people [TS]

  it's not like we get there we'll get [TS]

  there and I think also a lot of people [TS]

  were simply asking Apple can you please [TS]

  put modern guts inside your laptops and [TS]

  make them no faster and everything and [TS]

  apple delivered this thing that they [TS]

  weren't asking for and then raise the [TS]

  prices even if you are impressed by the [TS]

  touch bar and I think for the most part [TS]

  it probably will end up being a good [TS]

  thing the reason why so many people are [TS]

  mad like people have good reasons to be [TS]

  upset with this update because not every [TS]

  product that that needs an update got [TS]

  one and the update to these products [TS]

  that did get updated came with [TS]

  additional costs and and a couple of the [TS]

  downsides [TS]

  like what if you actually use [TS]

  the SD card slot for the hdmi port or [TS]

  things like there are a lot of things [TS]

  removed too so you have ports that [TS]

  removed you have a higher price and you [TS]

  you lost some keys that you might prefer [TS]

  to be hardware so basically even though [TS]

  it made advances that doesn't make it [TS]

  invalid or unreasonable for people to [TS]

  complain about the ways in which it got [TS]

  worse for them [TS]

  no it doesn't but I feel like what I'm [TS]

  hearing in its not just from you guys [TS]

  but you're the only two on the [TS]

  but you're the only two on the [TS]

  phone and so that's why I'm you know [TS]

  busting your butt so hard is what I [TS]

  don't feel like I'm hearing is well what [TS]

  we really wanted was a new processor [TS]

  maybe more ram maybe more hard drive [TS]

  space and then don't touch anything else [TS]

  for the love no no I mean I don't think [TS]

  anyone's like I think Marco but what [TS]

  talk around before but basically i said [TS]

  last week if you're going to if you can [TS]

  have this line of products and I think [TS]

  who is it about the web page listed all [TS]

  of the scene Hackett the listed all of [TS]

  the the laptop sort of in in order of [TS]

  the lines but you're going to have all [TS]

  these that laptops from like under a [TS]

  thousand all the way up to like big [TS]

  bucks for the big one right and they do [TS]

  have a pretty good spread of prices [TS]

  right if you decide you're going to do [TS]

  that you're going to sell one of them [TS]

  one on retina display with old guts and [TS]

  old ports and you're going to sell some [TS]

  of them with the fancy new ports a new [TS]

  guts in the whole deal [TS]

  the the way to do it is not to leave [TS]

  ancient computers around and just be [TS]

  like well this one is never gonna get us [TS]

  species it's not worth updating we're [TS]

  just going to keep selling the macbook [TS]

  air forever and ever and ever update the [TS]

  guts every once in awhile but it's never [TS]

  going to be an overall the the way with [TS]

  more investment which I'm not gonna say [TS]

  again I don't like the old Apple the old [TS]

  ways it makes like cited in the olden [TS]

  days like it's just a question of how [TS]

  much investment deal the old way with [TS]

  more investment is fine you're gonna [TS]

  sell this lot of computers from a [TS]

  thousand bucks to 4,000 all of them get [TS]

  some minimum set of new features rolled [TS]

  out together like it's a rising tide [TS]

  lifts all boats if you're gonna keep [TS]

  selling same look that one mac book [TS]

  which i think is gone now or still alive [TS]

  but it is finally gone anyway like I [TS]

  said last week if you're going to sell a [TS]

  super cheap laptop with real expect with [TS]

  an optical drive [TS]

  you also have to occasionally update [TS]

  that 1i get you can't just say we're [TS]

  going to keep some of the old computer [TS]

  on modified for a long long time you [TS]

  should move the lineup together which [TS]

  means you have a gradation of features [TS]

  like the touch bars and going to be in [TS]

  all of them understands expensive right [TS]

  and same thing with all the other [TS]

  features and all all the different [TS]

  things you bring out they're not all [TS]

  gonna have the p3 screen right but the [TS]

  fact that retina still hasn't trickled [TS]

  down to the lowest end model because [TS]

  they want to keep selling the old model [TS]

  like the really really old crappy one [TS]

  mostly unmodified with only minor tweaks [TS]

  that does not speak well too [TS]

  investment in the product line it's [TS]

  better to keep selling the cheaper [TS]

  computer but continued update them all [TS]

  together in some cases they get away [TS]

  with it on the phones because they only [TS]

  do like you know last year's phone and [TS]

  then it kind of trails off at the end [TS]

  but even there I think it's a problem [TS]

  that's where the strategy came from but [TS]

  with the max like how many years has [TS]

  essentially that same quote unquote same [TS]

  macbook air with different guts been [TS]

  sold [TS]

  I'm even made the point now which I look [TS]

  at the 13-inch macbook pro is now it's [TS]

  now more of an error than air isn't that [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  and yet will still sell that air because [TS]

  the new macros five dollars more [TS]

  expensive it would be better to have a [TS]

  cheaper better macbook air me even want [TS]

  to keep a non-retina make this one [TS]

  better than it is it's a trapeze and I [TS]

  mean like i'm not trying to sell you [TS]

  trying to give them now I'm not saying [TS]

  like every product has to be awesome but [TS]

  you have to bring the products up [TS]

  together you can have this these two [TS]

  classes of like hear the good computers [TS]

  and here the ones we've been saying for [TS]

  years that are pieces of crap and [TS]

  there's these weird that's not the case [TS]

  though with what they're saying is [TS]

  here's the brand-new good computers that [TS]

  quite frankly aren't cheap and into as [TS]

  someone of you just said they're less [TS]

  cheap now than they used to be and then [TS]

  if you want something that's more [TS]

  affordable guess what [TS]

  it's probably going to be a little older [TS]

  on the inside it's like the difference [TS]

  between but it should be newer than it [TS]

  is because it's like the pricing doesn't [TS]

  make sense it's like the mac pro we [TS]

  understand the macros an expensive [TS]

  computer but if you don't have that the [TS]

  internals for three years it becomes [TS]

  embarrassing i'm at the macbook airs in [TS]

  terms have been updated more than the [TS]

  mac pros we have to give them that but [TS]

  it's still basically the same form [TS]

  factor and the internals are pretty old [TS]

  and slow as compared to everything else [TS]

  like really that this to me like this [TS]

  this is my fundamental just friction [TS]

  that I have with the tim cook made way [TS]

  of running Apple you don't take real [TS]

  courage to talk about courage in this [TS]

  head-to-head super headphone jack [TS]

  it would take real courage would be to [TS]

  take a temporary margin hit to make all [TS]

  of your products great at some of the [TS]

  generals pointing out like it's hard to [TS]

  i'm trying to get the macbook air more [TS]

  credit than it probably deserves in [TS]

  terms of the specs in the money because [TS]

  again they have updated more than mac [TS]

  pro which is a low bar but if you if you [TS]

  look at the pc internal you can get [TS]

  for the similar price and again kind of [TS]

  macbook air is a better computer as [TS]

  nicer you know industrial design so on [TS]

  so forth just this is just not keeping [TS]

  up with the rest of the line and the [TS]

  line just feels like i haven't had nuts [TS]

  it's like the you know the ipad air and [TS]

  ipad pros like we this gap that exists [TS]

  everywhere and it is it's a gap that [TS]

  reflects a level of desired investment [TS]

  because it's so much easier to keep [TS]

  selling the old models or even just [TS]

  bumping the internals of the old model [TS]

  that fundamentally change like oh well [TS]

  we can bump the internals little bit but [TS]

  we changed us bc that's like a whole new [TS]

  thing and it requires more investment [TS]

  all the stuff it and i know i don't want [TS]

  to put value judgments on it like moral [TS]

  things like tim cook doesn't care is [TS]

  being mean to us i think it's just [TS]

  investment in the end again I think the [TS]

  investment is is justified by all of the [TS]

  tangible attributes of the mac line as [TS]

  compared to everything else [TS]

  mostly the reason you hear me upset [TS]

  anyway is because i like the mac right [TS]

  and I from I can argue for why you [TS]

  should do this not just because I like [TS]

  the Maccabees here's why it's actually [TS]

  important for apples the company like I [TS]

  can make that argument to but personally [TS]

  speaking it's because I like this [TS]

  product is now getting less investment [TS]

  that's why i find it frustrating and [TS]

  bingo didn't help that it didn't help [TS]

  that they said that [TS]

  hello again on the invitation but as I [TS]

  said last week that was overhyped that [TS]

  you're taking one admittedly quite long [TS]

  data point which is not updating the [TS]

  macbook pros effectively for like two or [TS]

  three years [TS]

  full stop that was BS that was terrible [TS]

  shouldn't happened but you're taking [TS]

  that one data point as a line that says [TS]

  though that line with a huge downward [TS]

  slope that says that we don't care about [TS]

  the mac well you got the mac pro to you [TS]

  got the mac mini which is always been [TS]

  like that and we just excuse because [TS]

  it's always been like that [TS]

  right okay like I even the imac has gone [TS]

  through droughts it's just not a good [TS]

  cycle now right even if you just want to [TS]

  pick like things like peripherals it's [TS]

  not making a new extended keyboard when [TS]

  they made the new key switches stuff [TS]

  like that like it's movie you know it's [TS]

  it that's harder to make an argument for [TS]

  than everything else but anyway I'm [TS]

  gonna get off this because I think I [TS]

  mostly just arguing the two of us [TS]

  arguing with you and I think the larger [TS]

  the larger like this doesn't matter to [TS]

  most people there was the biggest up cry [TS]

  you know how Christ on twitter with some [TS]

  people who expect desktop max to come [TS]

  which is you know like just because we [TS]

  didn't expect them to come or definitely [TS]

  didn't expect them all to be updated or [TS]

  anything doesn't mean it's not kind of [TS]

  like doesn't mean we're not tired of [TS]

  waiting for them as well right and I all [TS]

  what you saw where people who like to [TS]

  stop max complaining there were people [TS]

  don't like that max don't care who cares [TS]

  nobody noticed that max exist as far as [TS]

  they're concerned max our laptops and [TS]

  they think the macbook airs are fine and [TS]

  so on and so forth but where you know [TS]

  computer enthusiasts and mac fans and [TS]

  desktop Mac fans and so of course we're [TS]

  upset about it its separate argument [TS]

  whether just because were upset that the [TS]

  products we like are getting updated [TS]

  does that mean that Apple should update [TS]

  them are often but that explains the [TS]

  upsetness I think the upsetting this is [TS]

  not for the most part people think Larry [TS]

  the same as saying Apple should do what [TS]

  I want right because that's what you're [TS]

  gonna have before we would like it if [TS]

  Apple do something different but you [TS]

  know we just allow us to be upset that [TS]

  Apple's not doing what we want and then [TS]

  we can have a discussion about whether [TS]

  Apple should do this thing that we want [TS]

  whether it's good for Apple are good for [TS]

  computing or whatever night that i think [TS]

  i can turn that into a big segue into [TS]

  what i wanted to get into which is the [TS]

  touch bar is remarkable put an add [TS]

  something we also sponsor tonight by Mac [TS]

  paw and clean my mac three go to Mac [TS]

  Paul that's Mac PA w.com / ATP to learn [TS]

  more mac Paul the reputable software [TS]

  developer makes cleanmymac this is this [TS]

  great program that helps you clean out [TS]

  disk space and caches and things that on [TS]

  your mac and mac three they recently [TS]

  added a great new feature exclusively [TS]

  for developers who use xcode xcode is [TS]

  all the all these crap files keeps [TS]

  around attempt files build files derive [TS]

  data old support files for old simulated [TS]

  devices and all devices you don't use [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  CleanMyMac 3 by Mac paw safely and [TS]

  quickly can clean the xcode cash for you [TS]

  more easily than ever before as app [TS]

  developers Mac pod knows that it's a big [TS]

  heart of try to remember all these [TS]

  things are to even find these files to [TS]

  know clean to remember clean them to try [TS]

  to do anything anything quickly or with [TS]

  any kind of like single key command [TS]

  anything it's really hard so they made [TS]

  all this safe easy and fast with [TS]

  cleanmymac [TS]

  three you can see for yourself you got [TS]

  to check this out go to go to Mac pod [TS]

  calm / ATP that's Mac p aww Mac ba.com / [TS]

  ATP to check out CleanMyMac 3 especially [TS]

  if you're a developer to see the new [TS]

  feature to clear xcode cache files once [TS]

  again thanks a lot to Mac paw and clean [TS]

  my mac three for sponsoring our show so [TS]

  many years ago one of my early maybe my [TS]

  first but one of my earlier articles for [TS]

  macro magazine the back page article was [TS]

  about this fairly fanciful idea again i [TS]

  have is a history to the back page of [TS]

  macworld mac user magazine that made me [TS]

  think of writing something that probably [TS]

  won't even write a blog post today but i [TS]

  did in a print article back then about [TS]

  the idea of mac laptop that you could [TS]

  use a mac but then you could somehow [TS]

  folded over on itself kinda like the all [TS]

  those convertible like a lot of [TS]

  convertible pc laptops feel like this [TS]

  remember when they're making a lot about [TS]

  they're still making but the month you [TS]

  can fold over it turns into a tablet [TS]

  basically and when you turn into a [TS]

  tablet [TS]

  however you want to do a twisting the [TS]

  screen and going down fulton all [TS]

  backwards [TS]

  we want it in tablet mode it's basically [TS]

  an ipad and when it's in mac mode its a [TS]

  Mac and I was like well you know you've [TS]

  already got us running an intel on the [TS]

  simulator and the you know that the [TS]

  conversion would be kind of anything [TS]

  we've seen lots of pc makers do it [TS]

  Apple could do a good job on that the [TS]

  hinge mechanism make it very you know [TS]

  interesting and and sturdy and and good [TS]

  to use all these different scenarios and [TS]

  when that be an interesting kind of [TS]

  computer because that would deal with [TS]

  the the dichotomy that was then a hot [TS]

  topic and still kind of a hot topic [TS]

  between iOS and and the mac OS and all [TS]

  this stuff and you know obviously [TS]

  nothing came of that windows continue to [TS]

  sell those those are convertibles [TS]

  windows is converted its OS to be one [TS]

  unified OS for both touch interface and [TS]

  everything else and again we might talk [TS]

  about that later on a different show but [TS]

  setting that aside now that you know the [TS]

  idea that you could run both iOS and [TS]

  what was then OS 10 or Mac os10 at that [TS]

  time [TS]

  on the same computer because iOS also [TS]

  runs on intel what we have today with [TS]

  these things as you pointed out Casey is [TS]

  a mac that runs mac OS on its intel [TS]

  processor and then off to the side this [TS]

  little T 1 processor that is presumably [TS]

  arm and presumably run something like [TS]

  iOS I mean again the core OS of both [TS]

  Western and both mac OS and iOS Darwin [TS]

  anywhere but anyway [TS]

  presumably that little chip is running [TS]

  in the West that's running a touch bar [TS]

  doing all this stuff here we have a mac [TS]

  is essentially running to os's on two [TS]

  different screens [TS]

  the only difference is the tablet mode [TS]

  is just a little skinny strip that goes [TS]

  along the top of the thing and then the [TS]

  mac part gets the big thing of the top [TS]

  and you look at this and I to I joked [TS]

  was teasing Marco about this a couple [TS]

  shows ago [TS]

  just you wait until the entire keyboard [TS]

  is one big screen for the people who [TS]

  don't mind behind glass like look at the [TS]

  evolution of the keyboards on these macs [TS]

  going from big honkin giant keys that [TS]

  are like on the Apple extended to keep [TS]

  order the mac portable like big giant [TS]

  mechanical switch petrunka chunk by [TS]

  chunk and they just got squished and [TS]

  squished and the plungers became a [TS]

  butterfly hinges became dome switches [TS]

  where they've just the keys have just [TS]

  been descending into the thing becoming [TS]

  like comically thinner and smaller like [TS]

  like they were rolling over by a [TS]

  steamroller year after year and now a [TS]

  sudden one of the cortical keys is a big [TS]

  flat screen that looks like the keys [TS]

  they did a really good job by the way of [TS]

  like pattern matching them like so it's [TS]

  the same kind of matte finish on both [TS]

  the screen in the key so it looks like [TS]

  it's a big key anyway and now all of a [TS]

  sudden one of them turns into a screen [TS]

  and it's run by this little process has [TS]

  an OS and like someone didn't animated [TS]

  gif that i retweeted it was like next [TS]

  year the number keys are screen next [TS]

  year the top row of the qwerty keyboard [TS]

  is keep next year the next row keys next [TS]

  year the next rose the keys and [TS]

  eventually the whole lot of the things [TS]

  that the keys and eventually the top [TS]

  screen goes away and you just have an [TS]

  ipad right like it slowly slowly making [TS]

  the Nintendo ds2 dual-screen thing you [TS]

  know by by converting the keyboard and [TS]

  i'm not saying this is the inevitable [TS]

  direction they're going to go but it's [TS]

  hard to look at that touchpad are the [TS]

  touch bar and if this touch bar has any [TS]

  legs at all the thing that people might [TS]

  want to do not to see this as like a [TS]

  weird transitional fossil [TS]

  and I don't again I don't totally get [TS]

  into the Microsoft Surface studio thing [TS]

  but like this weird transition possibly [TS]

  weird transitional fossil held up [TS]

  against this the surface studio where [TS]

  the whole freaking thing is one giant [TS]

  touches play on by the way there's a [TS]

  keyboard when you need it one of those [TS]

  looks like they skip to the end of this [TS]

  evolution again this may be a dead end [TS]

  and evolution may be the wrong about [TS]

  this is the you know the future of [TS]

  computing or whatever may be the wrong [TS]

  about the OS maybe the wrong about so [TS]

  many other things but for one of the [TS]

  first times in recent memory apple looks [TS]

  to be making a more cautious bet then [TS]

  then Microsoft at least in this [TS]

  particular scenario and that's not [TS]

  necessarily bad because i think the [TS]

  cautious bet like the odds i think the [TS]

  odds of touch bar being interesting and [TS]

  useful are higher than the odds of the [TS]

  surface studio being a runaway smash hit [TS]

  that saves microsoft right or whatever [TS]

  because like that it's safer [TS]

  I think it has a higher chance of [TS]

  success but I i look at that touch bar [TS]

  and it's hard not to start thinking [TS]

  about putting screens for the key but [TS]

  why is the touchpad the the trackpad not [TS]

  entirely screen the keyboard is not a [TS]

  screen but is it has market would say [TS]

  getting progressively worse as a [TS]

  keyboard but other people might say [TS]

  getting progressively less keyboard e [TS]

  because people don't care about [TS]

  keyboards anymore and when I just make [TS]

  the whole thing screen and then when you [TS]

  do that why do you have two screens [TS]

  wanted to make one screen and you just [TS]

  reinvented the ipad again but with a [TS]

  different OS but now you know so i think [TS]

  this is all this seems like it's all [TS]

  eventually going to come to a head and I [TS]

  think we'll look back at this and be [TS]

  able to see the progression but right [TS]

  now the progression that we can see from [TS]

  the past is the keys are getting flatter [TS]

  the things are getting thinner and now [TS]

  the limitations of keys have gone to the [TS]

  point where they're bringing some [TS]

  screens down into that area and i'm not [TS]

  quite sure where this will end but apple [TS]

  looks like the more the more iterative [TS]

  let's analyze a cautious or careful [TS]

  because this is an interesting move but [TS]

  it's definitely more iterative then sort [TS]

  of leapfrog e then [TS]

  then we're used to I think I don't think [TS]

  that's a bad thing I i think it's i [TS]

  don't want to really turn this into a [TS]

  surface studio discussion but it is a [TS]

  fascinating part of case studies the [TS]

  right way of looking at it but it's it's [TS]

  fascinating to see Microsoft just [TS]

  tripping down on this hybrid OS idea [TS]

  which to me seems utterly preposterous [TS]

  and i actually have installed Windows 10 [TS]

  on my work laptop because I've been [TS]

  doing a little c-sharp API work and i [TS]

  gotta tell you i was expecting Windows [TS]

  10 to be really good because everyone i [TS]

  know that has run it has said oh it's [TS]

  great it's a lot better they fixed a lot [TS]

  of the problems that it's really good [TS]

  and i could go on for hours about how [TS]

  awful i found windows tend to be and in [TS]

  no small part because high DPI support [TS]

  is a joke at best and non-existent at [TS]

  worst but that being said all of a [TS]

  sudden with the surface to do I sort of [TS]

  understand what Microsoft is going for [TS]

  with this hybrid world where touches is [TS]

  touching non-touch os's are one in the [TS]

  same i think that that is the surface to [TS]

  do is kind of the ultimate realization [TS]

  that they it's to some degree kind of a [TS]

  naked robotic or of love Microsoft [TS]

  strategy that lets make a machine with [TS]

  this huge what is it's a 27 inch monitor [TS]

  i believe something like that does [TS]

  matter huge monitor 18 inch I think okay [TS]

  and i believe it's taller right because [TS]

  it's a different aspect ratio then we [TS]

  asked there is 3 by 2 [TS]

  yeah I i would love honestly so let's [TS]

  make this very large that you know kind [TS]

  of contrary device where it's not [TS]

  widescreen like everything else on the [TS]

  market is and let's make it touch [TS]

  sensitive everywhere and that is kind of [TS]

  the ultimate realization of microsoft [TS]

  microsoft strategy and although i would [TS]

  i would give almost anything not to run [TS]

  windows and I can understand why this [TS]

  would be appealing [TS]

  I don't think I would ever want to have [TS]

  a computer that is a drafting table so [TS]

  to speak but i can see how would be [TS]

  really really cool [TS]

  similarly I think this touch bar is kind [TS]

  of the ultimate realization [TS]

  of what Apple thinks is the best idea [TS]

  for a quote unquote hybrid world which [TS]

  is not as much that the screen is a [TS]

  touchscreen but more [TS]

  hey will give you a little sick separate [TS]

  touchscreen that you can interact with [TS]

  and you can do cool stuff with and by [TS]

  the way it's more than just buttons like [TS]

  when we had seen the preview or the [TS]

  renderings for this i don't recall [TS]

  anyway having seen that there was going [TS]

  to be anything on here really but a [TS]

  bunch of just programmable buttons if [TS]

  you will and there's all sorts of cool [TS]

  stuff that they show on this they show [TS]

  timelines and like Final Cut Pro or [TS]

  maybe a different app they showed kind [TS]

  of a cover flow version of all the [TS]

  pictures that are in a folder when [TS]

  you're looking and find her like there's [TS]

  some really trick cool stuff coverflow [TS]

  will never die but forever that I we [TS]

  always know is a well the rumors were [TS]

  all an oled screen so we kind of knew [TS]

  that there was going to be other stuff [TS]

  up there but like I go back to what you [TS]

  said earlier Casey I think the key [TS]

  phrase that I don't think it's apt here [TS]

  is ultimate realization because this is [TS]

  not the ultimate realization of anything [TS]

  this is an iterative improvement and I [TS]

  think it's good and I think it's going [TS]

  to really cool but it's almost as if the [TS]

  more cool this is the more we will [TS]

  realize that limiting it to just a [TS]

  little strip is bad and that you know [TS]

  like why is the whole trackpad not a [TS]

  screen why is the whole bottom of the [TS]

  laptop screen wise though keyboard not a [TS]

  screen is the point will say well the [TS]

  whole keyboard on screen just type in [TS]

  glasses terrible many millions of money [TS]

  will say now we love it it's great you [TS]

  know that it's like and then once you do [TS]

  that it's like well then why is there a [TS]

  bottom screen and the top screen why's [TS]

  it all one screen and then you just like [TS]

  it really feels it's not the ultimate [TS]

  realization writing the ultimate [TS]

  realization if this idea turns out to be [TS]

  good of this computer on this laptop [TS]

  idea but this computing idea using like [TS]

  the value system that is most in line [TS]

  with probably mine and Marcos is the [TS]

  server studio which is just make the [TS]

  whole freaking thing a big giant [TS]

  gorgeous touchscreen but also give me a [TS]

  physical keyboard when I want to type [TS]

  because I'm old and I like to have on [TS]

  physical keyboards and when i'm not [TS]

  typing I don't have to deal with that [TS]

  and there's no like separate region of [TS]

  the keyboard that's also a screen and I [TS]

  can use 77 hand and foot ten fingers and [TS]

  five elbows all the same time with a [TS]

  little dial and like just you know that [TS]

  is the ultimate realization of ideas it [TS]

  go [TS]

  idea does it work well as the OS good [TS]

  other other and intangibles that are [TS]

  stopping them again I think we do have [TS]

  to talk about this service to do some [TS]

  point but the touch bar is not the [TS]

  ultimate realization of any idea it is [TS]

  the next good iterative step along the [TS]

  lines of the idea that apple's pursuing [TS]

  and I think it looks really cool and [TS]

  really awesome with some minor caveat [TS]

  it's but it feels it feels like just one [TS]

  more step in it kind of its transition [TS]

  off that makes me feel not uncomfortable [TS]

  but like anticipatory like I like I'm [TS]

  I'm waiting to see what's next it's [TS]

  tantalizing in the like where does this [TS]

  all go where does this lead because [TS]

  clearly this is not going to be the end [TS]

  this is clearly on its way to something [TS]

  and I you know it's like it's like a [TS]

  glimpse of the future that is not yet [TS]

  here right [TS]

  the keyboard is getting flatter we [TS]

  showed a screen on it but it's still [TS]

  kind of disappointed this thing is still [TS]

  kind of shape of the old computer and [TS]

  certainly the shape of mac OS is still [TS]

  as separate from iOS is that ever was [TS]

  and we don't know I don't know where [TS]

  it's going but this is like I feel like [TS]

  this is the first step off of the path [TS]

  that the mac has been going on to an [TS]

  acknowledgement that there can be that [TS]

  not there you know emerging the os's or [TS]

  whatever but just trying trying to [TS]

  reconcile this world where we want to [TS]

  touch stuff and have touchscreen things [TS]

  with the world of the mac we're not [TS]

  touching things right and how do we [TS]

  bring them together and this is honestly [TS]

  this is the first mac with a touchscreen [TS]

  right no automatic has had a screen that [TS]

  you talked to touch pads and a little [TS]

  hybrid things [TS]

  hey we want to touch screen Mac you got [TS]

  10 by the way the screen is really thin [TS]

  and that just makes me think like where [TS]

  is this going where what is the future [TS]

  of this like surely this is not a [TS]

  holding pattern that we stand for [TS]

  another 15 years with a little script [TS]

  strip on the screen there [TS]

  this has to lead to something and I'm [TS]

  excited to see where that goes but this [TS]

  this machine makes me like hunger to see [TS]

  what's next [TS]

  yeah quick aside about the surface [TS]

  studio from everything I can tell it's [TS]

  using the exact same processors as the [TS]

  imac and it isn't out for another two [TS]

  months [TS]

  yeah no it's not a super like that that [TS]

  machine but its separate topic intend to [TS]

  switch also sorry if you're here to her [TS]

  present tense which probably not this [TS]

  week [TS]

  intense which Microsoft service studio [TS]

  there on the list we will talk about [TS]

  them [TS]

  alright so now you said nice things [TS]

  about touchpad a few minor annoying [TS]

  things about the touchpad well now what [TS]

  one fun thing about it that the [TS]

  customized thing pure APPL feature love [TS]

  that he can drag the little thing off [TS]

  the screen onto the onto the touch bar [TS]

  that's awesome right [TS]

  that's like another one of those magical [TS]

  type of things and I did when you're [TS]

  editing mode where you want to edit the [TS]

  buttons to customize it is good that [TS]

  that's a feature because customizing is [TS]

  great and they go into shaky mode you [TS]

  know like iOS where you when you you [TS]

  know when you're editing your [TS]

  springboard icons that's that's kind of [TS]

  like a a UI idiom that Apple has coined [TS]

  and now they use across the product line [TS]

  to great effect when when these things [TS]

  are in the mode where they're being [TS]

  edited have them wiggle so it's clear [TS]

  that you're in like editing mode and all [TS]

  the rules are different that's very [TS]

  clever very good bit of you either [TS]

  they've been smart spread everywhere but [TS]

  the tricky bit on the little strip the [TS]

  touch bar screen is that they're using [TS]

  edge-to-edge every single pixel that [TS]

  thing to show the buttons because it's [TS]

  such a skinny screen like they're going [TS]

  all out from the top edge there's no [TS]

  margins they're leaving on it so they [TS]

  can't have the icons shake back and [TS]

  forth as if they're rotating like the [TS]

  springboard icons but it would be you [TS]

  did now because they would be because [TS]

  they would be clipped on the top and [TS]

  bottom and you would be it would break [TS]

  the illusion that their keys when you [TS]

  saw them clipped by the screen edges so [TS]

  instead they they they shake but only [TS]

  left and right i was just okay yeah [TS]

  they're in there and they're wiggling [TS]

  and you don't know there's something a [TS]

  little off but basically like jostling [TS]

  up against each other like a bunch of [TS]

  like you know peas in a pod or whatever [TS]

  but they can't we go up and down because [TS]

  the club which I thought was a really [TS]

  clever way to solve that problem because [TS]

  the problem is that we want to use every [TS]

  pixel this thing but we make them shake [TS]

  the other way they clip top and bottom [TS]

  and it destroys the illusion so just [TS]

  make them shake side-to-side I thought [TS]

  that was super clever and adorable and [TS]

  they look cute when i do that and that's [TS]

  a great feature but it's the same trick [TS]

  using the watch display to is like on [TS]

  the watch and this is one of things you [TS]

  could do with all that like one reason [TS]

  looks so great is like black on oled [TS]

  looks really black and so you can more [TS]

  easily concealed the edges of the actual [TS]

  screen like the actual pixels of the [TS]

  screen with the black margin around it [TS]

  so on the watch interface elements go [TS]

  right up to the edge like they did he [TS]

  specifically in the interface guidelines [TS]

  like you should design your screens that [TS]

  way don't leave any margin around you [TS]

  let's go ride right to the edges and [TS]

  then on the watches physical hardware [TS]

  they just leave enough of a margin [TS]

  around the screen to make that look [TS]

  right into the doing the same thing on [TS]

  the touch part here which is another one [TS]

  of the many parallels that have to watch [TS]

  because it appears to run a very to [TS]

  watch us and it's running on on what [TS]

  appears to be a variant of the watches [TS]

  s1 chip as it's totally different as a [TS]

  TV there instead of an s totally [TS]

  different right right and the w12 [TS]

  different yes anyway so yeah it's the [TS]

  same similar move areas it's a genius [TS]

  move like to know just we don't need the [TS]

  screen to be any bigger than this [TS]

  because the buttons are gonna be that [TS]

  big [TS]

  so just make it look like the screen has [TS]

  a healthy margin and don't waste any [TS]

  pixels and power on anything that's not [TS]

  you know necessary so margins get within [TS]

  margins taketh away [TS]

  let's now discuss the escape button [TS]

  other way all the people like I didn't [TS]

  want to respond to us on Twitter for the [TS]

  past week because it seemed tiring but [TS]

  now i'm going to do it in the podcast [TS]

  the the point that we made either on the [TS]

  show last week or on twitter about the [TS]

  escape key was all about the fact that [TS]

  being a physical key [TS]

  none of us on the show we're saying that [TS]

  there was not going to be a little gray [TS]

  square with the letters esc ended in the [TS]

  upper left corner that little screen [TS]

  well almost the upper left corner [TS]

  yes yes I'm getting to that point to it [TS]

  was all knew it would be there it's just [TS]

  we were we were asking for a key because [TS]

  in our line of work it is a key that we [TS]

  had more often than probably the average [TS]

  person and it's nice to be able to reach [TS]

  up and feel for it and so as far as so [TS]

  that was it was not about Lisbeth people [TS]

  think when they showed the key look [TS]

  there's an escapee you got your escapees [TS]

  like it's not a key it's just a picture [TS]

  on the screen and we knew that was going [TS]

  to be there anyway it's an escape zone [TS]

  yes as for margins the escape zone [TS]

  escapes on the touch bar does is not in [TS]

  the corner so if we want to it's like [TS]

  well okay so it's not a physical button [TS]

  but it's still on the corner and you can [TS]

  reach for and feel the corner of the [TS]

  screen right [TS]

  unfortunately if you touch just the [TS]

  corner of the screen you won't hit the [TS]

  escape button because that first [TS]

  centimeter or so of the touch bar is as [TS]

  far as I'm able to determine completely [TS]

  inert I know it doesn't have a screen [TS]

  underneath it [TS]

  I'm pretty sure it also doesn't have [TS]

  touch sensors underneath that although I [TS]

  see those things are necessarily [TS]

  connected they could have put touch [TS]

  sensors under there but no screen anyway [TS]

  no screen is under there so they can't [TS]

  physically draw the escape button [TS]

  against the left edge of the touch bar [TS]

  and i'm pretty sure you can't touch [TS]

  their which makes it kind of a shame [TS]

  because if you're feeling for something [TS]

  to like reach out to the corner to find [TS]

  a thing it's the one part you can feel [TS]

  for on a completely smooth like touch [TS]

  bar screen as you can feel for the top [TS]

  edges in the sides so i would love to be [TS]

  able to reach up to that corner and hit [TS]

  the escape zone on the screen [TS]

  yes but it looks like i will have to hit [TS]

  the zone slightly over to the right from [TS]

  the escape zone and i'm not particularly [TS]

  happy about that because it's like [TS]

  snatching defeat from the jaws of [TS]

  victory because you guys like the one [TS]

  button i care about this being replaced [TS]

  by virtual button the one hit the most [TS]

  often at least it's in the corner and [TS]

  i'll be able to feel for but now i can [TS]

  feel for by the way and i'm probably [TS]

  getting one of these at work which is [TS]

  why more invested in this at this point [TS]

  and as I snuggly tweeted earlier [TS]

  can we all guess why the screen doesn't [TS]

  go all the way to the edge on the left [TS]

  side [TS]

  why doesn't the screen expand a little [TS]

  bit it's so on the opposite side is the [TS]

  touch ID sensor that's the same width as [TS]

  the margin on the left side interesting [TS]

  exactly the same whether it's just [TS]

  clothes I i think it's exactly the same [TS]

  i haven't haven't verified that yes i [TS]

  think it is I think you're right it is [TS]

  exactly the same with who I know who [TS]

  likes margins to be exactly the same [TS]

  with on the right and left sides of [TS]

  things that they design i don't know i [TS]

  mean maybe it might be the same person [TS]

  who put the camera shutter / volume up [TS]

  button directly opposite of me turn off [TS]

  the screen and go to sleep button on the [TS]

  iPhone offsetting those wouldn't help [TS]

  that much but anyway like if you again [TS]

  if you squint this laptop you see this [TS]

  is still a 15-inch laptop which it with [TS]

  a tiny keyboard crammed in there and I [TS]

  know you won't have room for the [TS]

  speakers and I know someone so all I'm [TS]

  saying is that keeper could be big round [TS]

  that each model but they want to be [TS]

  uniform [TS]

  same thing with the inverted to you get [TS]

  a full-size arrow keys if you didn't [TS]

  have a perfect rectangle Jony ive and [TS]

  the Apple designers like symmetry I like [TS]

  symmetry I like things to be uniform and [TS]

  centered and everything but everyone has [TS]

  their limits and this hit the touch ID [TS]

  being on the gap on the right [TS]

  I know it has to be there that's fine [TS]

  what I would have chosen if i was [TS]

  designing this is the screen would go [TS]

  over to the edge on left side even [TS]

  though it's not symmetrical [TS]

  that's the choice I would have made [TS]

  apple made a different choice all they [TS]

  have open the door for is the ability to [TS]

  lefties model of this button is on the [TS]

  left you want the lefty/righty pitch [TS]

  macbook pro I won't touch ID and left [TS]

  anyway it's mostly silly i think it will [TS]

  probably be fine but is another [TS]

  maddening case of some people would say [TS]

  it's its form over function i think [TS]

  that's okay it's a little far I think [TS]

  I'll probably still be able to find that [TS]

  escape key how the arrow keys bothered [TS]

  me more than this but boy I babe I'm i [TS]

  am on a slightly different page than [TS]

  apples designers when it comes to [TS]

  symmetry and ergonomics well and also [TS]

  like you will probably want to find it [TS]

  but you will probably have to look more [TS]

  often and and we don't know yet like in [TS]

  practice how often will be a problem [TS]

  with all the buttons on the touch bar [TS]

  but i would say for the most part I [TS]

  think most people who use mac and [TS]

  windows windows on all sorts of like [TS]

  frequent shortcuts to the f keys like it [TS]

  does is the only way to close window [TS]

  still alt f4 like it so if we win those [TS]

  people might use more often [TS]

  Mac people for the most part you're not [TS]

  very heavily using almost anything that [TS]

  function bro [TS]

  except the Escape key where many people [TS]

  and you know we as guess we we often [TS]

  minimizer or diminish or underestimate [TS]

  everyone else who's not a computer geek [TS]

  and their ability to use our computers [TS]

  that we think are even even that guy I [TS]

  slipped into right anyway sorry about [TS]

  that other people who are not geeks many [TS]

  of them know that the Escape key often [TS]

  performs a cancel shortcut to lots of [TS]

  things in the OS fullscreen things [TS]

  dialogues really there's so many things [TS]

  in using a computer where the Escape key [TS]

  is a useful shortcut for literally [TS]

  escape cancel or escape what I'm doing [TS]

  right and normal people in quotes many [TS]

  of them know that this is not like a [TS]

  thing that only people who use them use [TS]

  like a lot of people know this so this [TS]

  is this is not just like a thing that [TS]

  annoys geeks like the loss of a of a [TS]

  hardware Escape key that you can hit [TS]

  without looking because we've all been [TS]

  taught to type without looking at the [TS]

  keyboard and the more you use keyboards [TS]

  the more you [TS]

  just get into the habit of not looking [TS]

  at them the the lack of the hardware [TS]

  Escape key is actually going to [TS]

  inconvenience a lot of people it is not [TS]

  just nerds [TS]

  now it might be worth it the whole rest [TS]

  of the benefit of this thing might end [TS]

  up being worth it in the end but I don't [TS]

  like when people sit when people [TS]

  minimize this is just an earth because [TS]

  it really isn't [TS]

  I think more nerds don't look at the [TS]

  keyboard and regular people but I you [TS]

  know I i know a lot of people if i gave [TS]

  this computer to would be annoyed by the [TS]

  fact that escape is not a button but the [TS]

  even if they're looking at the key part [TS]

  of all time but you know that's I i I'm [TS]

  willing to say that the benefit totally [TS]

  outweighs that because the features that [TS]

  are available on this thing or just [TS]

  fantastically better than our growth [TS]

  keys and I'm all involved with onboard [TS]

  with that it's just like I said like the [TS]

  one but the one button that you can feel [TS]

  for if such ideas on the right the left [TS]

  corner is the easiest place and that [TS]

  thing to find and if the touch region [TS]

  extended all the way to left that would [TS]

  be that would make it almost as easy to [TS]

  hit because it's not like you're typing [TS]

  the escapee every once in a while you're [TS]

  hitting it if you're a normal person [TS]

  you're not it's not like the Ikki where [TS]

  you're kind of like typing it so the [TS]

  fact that it's not a button wouldn't be [TS]

  like oh it feels weird when it's not a [TS]

  button would be fine if it was over to [TS]

  left more by the way the second most [TS]

  frequently used button in the top row [TS]

  for me on my Apple extended keyboard at [TS]

  work and guess what it is [TS]

  play pause volume now it's the eject [TS]

  button and I don't hit on purpose i hit [TS]

  accidentally when i try to hit backspace [TS]

  and my CD tray of a mac program sticking [TS]

  out like a giant tongue and why do I [TS]

  accidentally hit the eject button when [TS]

  i'm hitting backspace well i'm not a [TS]

  great typist [TS]

  but why do I actually hit the button [TS]

  because the top row of keys is jammed [TS]

  right up against the number 0 in the [TS]

  backspace key is you know why because [TS]

  it's just not enough room on my giant [TS]

  expansive desk to put an extra five [TS]

  millimeters between those two roadies [TS]

  even Microsoft has lost the technology [TS]

  of separate sets of keys remember the [TS]

  original microsoft word on keyboard it [TS]

  had the two halves of the keys and then [TS]

  have a space and then had the function [TS]

  keys and I had a space and had the [TS]

  inverted T then it had a space that had [TS]

  the numbered look at the one that they [TS]

  just introduced recently and your mouse [TS]

  is in New Jersey [TS]

  I know what I'm just saying like you can [TS]

  solve that problem by getting a getting [TS]

  rid of America better whatever i'm not [TS]

  asking for seven inches of space between [TS]

  these regions right but if you look at [TS]

  the new microsoft economic keyboard they [TS]

  copied Apple down to the half-size [TS]

  function keys that are jammed up against [TS]

  the numbers like with vertical and they [TS]

  have [TS]

  huge risks rest on this thing is like a [TS]

  7 inch wrist rest and yet they couldn't [TS]

  spare five millimeters to put a space [TS]

  between the top row functions i couldn't [TS]

  make the top of functions these [TS]

  full-sized like what do you think we [TS]

  have room on your desk or did not think [TS]

  we have reminded us because this [TS]

  keyboard is huge but all your keys or [TS]

  jam together and the numeric keypads [TS]

  jammed against it at home end and page [TS]

  up page and jam together like I don't [TS]

  know who's designing these things are [TS]

  what they think is going to like spaces [TS]

  between different sets of keys are [TS]

  feature being able to feel for the top [TS]

  edge of the backspace key is a feature I [TS]

  hated that freakin eject button and [TS]

  seeing my CD tray eject and I can hit [TS]

  without even looking to push back in [TS]

  once i get the mechanism start going [TS]

  because it was a delight [TS]

  like I did it again i have and hold on [TS]

  we can use I don't understand what you [TS]

  just said you said something about a [TS]

  tray in it in it you know what I know I [TS]

  know it's hard to understand it's a [TS]

  couple of kc oh the cup holder [TS]

  oh yeah I miss having one of those i [TS]

  mean that that man that's a long time [TS]

  ago I and i would say again on a laptop [TS]

  could you fit a keyboard on the 15-inch [TS]

  macbook pro that has a space between [TS]

  number keys and the little strip think [TS]

  maybe you would want to in his new [TS]

  scenario because it's like a screen and [TS]

  you want to be able to reach about [TS]

  everything for traditional keyboards [TS]

  i think the space is important i think [TS]

  having half-size keys up there is dumb i [TS]

  think it you know the little strip thing [TS]

  is not the full height of the keys [TS]

  why not make that little strip to be [TS]

  taller than it is maybe it's just the [TS]

  right height for the the proportions [TS]

  they wanted for the features but a lot [TS]

  of times they shall i can in Photoshop [TS]

  demo they're showing the history of the [TS]

  images but the images were either they [TS]

  were either cropped are squished because [TS]

  you if you throw them if you show them [TS]

  proportionally they'll be really small [TS]

  so you want to show more of it but you [TS]

  only have with to expand in like why [TS]

  isn't the touch bar the height of a [TS]

  full-height key right that's enough is [TS]

  it just because the keys that is [TS]

  replacing or a fight like maybe it's a [TS]

  cost concern maybe its power concern i'm [TS]

  not entirely sure but lots of decisions [TS]

  flow out of this that I don't quite [TS]

  understand but as far as keys go [TS]

  I liked it better when I had full-size [TS]

  keys with different regions separated [TS]

  from each other especially on a gigantic [TS]

  expansive desktop keyboard responsive [TS]

  tonight by audible.com with an unmatched [TS]

  selection of audiobooks original audio [TS]

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  it you listen to audiobooks from [TS]

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  audiobooks can bring books to life many [TS]

  of them are right by the author's [TS]

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  get a free trial today by signing up at [TS]

  audible.com / ATP that's audible.com / [TS]

  ATP thanks to audible for sponsoring our [TS]

  show [TS]

  if I had to summarize the releases today [TS]

  i am on on like the the good side like [TS]

  overall this was good and said earlier [TS]

  it does not come with it isn't all roses [TS]

  like they're there are some like bitter [TS]

  pill to swallow here but overall this [TS]

  was good and I'm I'm really happy that [TS]

  they are still doing things like the [TS]

  touch bar even even though like I will [TS]

  probably not use one for quite some time [TS]

  primarily because I get on working on [TS]

  the desktop like and as I mentioned [TS]

  earlier I don't expect this to come to [TS]

  desktops anytime soon if ever [TS]

  and and so this this particular thing [TS]

  will probably not impact me day-to-day [TS]

  it for a while if ever but they did make [TS]

  their laptops better faster newer [TS]

  designs thinner lighter like overall [TS]

  this was a really good day for mac [TS]

  laptops it was just not a day for mac [TS]

  desktops or for anybody who cares about [TS]

  money which is a lot of people i had [TS]

  some lighter things on the the touch bar [TS]

  before I move on from that topic sure is [TS]

  your credit to people on twitter so i [TS]

  was talking about you know when i was [TS]

  doing my cranky tweets about the [TS]

  symmetrical space on the size of the [TS]

  touch bar like asking you know can [TS]

  anyone guess why that space is like I [TS]

  posted a picture from the Apple human [TS]

  interface guidelines that emphasizes the [TS]

  fact that the margins are identical on [TS]

  both sides of it as a into the people [TS]

  who are listening to the show and dave [TS]

  liebman had a good answer as to why the [TS]

  Escape key is not up against left margin [TS]

  that's the space taken up by the [TS]

  headphone jack [TS]

  oh it's not that but you couldn't put [TS]

  them on Jack we had me now we have to [TS]

  come we had to fit in and you know [TS]

  that's the headphone jack is right under [TS]

  and then I also tweeted that we should [TS]

  start the countdown to touch bar games [TS]

  because you know if because it's the mac [TS]

  and we don't have to send into the mac [TS]

  app store and this thing does have an [TS]

  API you can make a touch bar game i'm [TS]

  sure of some fashion how responsive it [TS]

  can be i don't know because I don't it's [TS]

  not like you're you know i think is it [TS]

  is how to remove without a separate t1 [TS]

  chip over there but it would be fun to [TS]

  try to have tried to do something cool [TS]

  and here are the best entries for [TS]

  potential touch bar games richard gale [TS]

  so just punch the monkey which is a joke [TS]

  that only be nice [TS]

  and then in the nineties will get [TS]

  because that was a banner ad with the [TS]

  monkey and he moved mostly horizontal [TS]

  because there wasn't much room to go to [TS]

  punch the monkey is the right thing and [TS]

  Benjamin looking wins the idea for touch [TS]

  bar game which he calls really boring [TS]

  snake snake by the way for all over [TS]

  younger people is a game that was [TS]

  popular on cell phones back when the [TS]

  only games they could play was having a [TS]

  Lenny I can't explain snake if you don't [TS]

  get the joke trust me it's very funny it [TS]

  was called nibble and qbasic back in the [TS]

  day [TS]

  mm remember really boring snake he [TS]

  should copyright is capital R capital B [TS]

  capital s TM the game that you can make [TS]

  Margo I honestly the the gaming things [TS]

  might be I saw James Thompson of peacock [TS]

  Fame talking earlier about the US [TS]

  Attorney sdk awesome news that their [TS]

  parent there appears to be a simulator [TS]

  for building apps for so you don't need [TS]

  to have the hardware yet but it also [TS]

  appears that you only have access to it [TS]

  when your app is active [TS]

  so if you were to make a a touch bar [TS]

  game you might have to always have a [TS]

  window on screen the user keeps active [TS]

  for your gift to keep showing up in the [TS]

  touch bar [TS]

  yeah i know it again at the macro see [TS]

  what kind of hacks people can do it but [TS]

  like and you mentioned before that the [TS]

  addressable market for touching our [TS]

  things going to be small and I think [TS]

  that would be more of a problem if the [TS]

  touch bar wasn't so damn cool [TS]

  uh yeah and and it probably seems like [TS]

  it and it's also seems like it's easy to [TS]

  do something down there it's just so [TS]

  cool and it's in the simulator and i [TS]

  expect to see a lot of applications [TS]

  doing possibly inadvisable things with [TS]

  the touch bar but it's just to have [TS]

  another place that I you know to have a [TS]

  place next to the keyboard that's [TS]

  configurable that you can do stuff in it [TS]

  will be exciting for developers to just [TS]

  try something especially if it's fairly [TS]

  straightforward implement it seems like [TS]

  the classes they have for this type of [TS]

  stuff that a scrubber and all the stuff [TS]

  in the whole API seems pretty well [TS]

  thought out and well designed it won't [TS]

  be that hard to get something up there [TS]

  even if it's just a bunch of buttons and [TS]

  stuff and the Apple apps are really [TS]

  showing the way with like we're not just [TS]

  putting a bunch of configurable buttons [TS]

  like Casey with you know case you're [TS]

  saying before they all just a bunch of [TS]

  buttons to change based on the context [TS]

  they've got you know I mean it's obvious [TS]

  lots of horizontal stuff but timelines [TS]

  thumbnails lots of interfaces it seemed [TS]

  pretty responsive in that you could do [TS]

  things on this little tiny iOS control [TS]

  computer that would cause changes on the [TS]

  big mac computer a couple inches away in [TS]

  a fairly responsive fashion making it so [TS]

  you can do things without taking your [TS]

  hands off the keyboard or you know doing [TS]

  things two hands at once with one on the [TS]

  touch part 1 the trackpad i found that [TS]

  demonstration pretty compelling and I [TS]

  think even though such a small number of [TS]

  people relative to the rest of the mac [TS]

  users are going to have this developers [TS]

  will add this feature because it's cool [TS]

  I i love the idea of this like amazing [TS]

  like high-end dual-core supercomputer [TS]

  sitting there mostly idle as you play a [TS]

  game on this little 30 pixels tall strip [TS]

  the whole screens like they're lit up [TS]

  the whole computers on doing nothing but [TS]

  it's it they're playing the game on this [TS]

  little watch processors little space it [TS]

  could be an inversion of like the old [TS]

  like the top part will be just like the [TS]

  the status display that shows your [TS]

  inventory and the whole game is better [TS]

  up on the bottom lots of infinite runner [TS]

  runners are potentially good i I don't [TS]

  know how much control you have there but [TS]

  because it is a little computer doing [TS]

  that I wonder if you can somehow get [TS]

  code onto it for it to run i'm not sure [TS]

  what the whole deal is it [TS]

  it seems to be communicating at removed [TS]

  from the rest of the mac system but [TS]

  there is code running there to run the [TS]

  display and if you can get your code [TS]

  onto the t1 or onto whatever the t1 does [TS]

  and get it run to run from there that [TS]

  will be where your your fun at the very [TS]

  least you should probably go to do pong [TS]

  or something right or or really boring [TS]

  snake and i would like to the the other [TS]

  things as far as there's already Apple [TS]

  human interface guidelines for it i [TS]

  briefly looked at them and I remember [TS]

  reading in like all this all seems [TS]

  sensible and good ideas but one of the [TS]

  items maybe think that Apple has [TS]

  actually done a demo that was countered [TS]

  to its me to see if I can find out about [TS]

  like well that's that's not it [TS]

  oh yeah apple doesn't always follow the [TS]

  egg and following the end of it is not a [TS]

  bible that has to be followed to the [TS]

  letter it so now they've got it didn't [TS]

  you [TS]

  the one that was confusing me there [TS]

  there within the bounds of things to [TS]

  avoid mirroring the touch bar [TS]

  interactions on the main screen but they [TS]

  mean that the example to give it the [TS]

  user taps about in touch bar is [TS]

  presented with listed options don't also [TS]

  present the same options on the main [TS]

  screen what they demoed was for example [TS]

  in photos when you're messing with like [TS]

  the exposure slider they it rather than [TS]

  just you messing with the exposure [TS]

  slider on the touch bar and seeing the [TS]

  exposure chain [TS]

  John the full screen image when you go [TS]

  into edit mode the Photos app also goes [TS]

  into edit mode and when you drag the [TS]

  exposure slider the exposures lighter is [TS]

  visible on the main screen as well and [TS]

  it drags in it you know the same time as [TS]

  you're dragging your thing now that's [TS]

  arguably not the same as presenting [TS]

  delicious options in both places but it [TS]

  isn't kind of mirroring the controls [TS]

  like a look at my my changing exposure [TS]

  in the sidebar photos are my changing [TS]

  exposure on the on the touch bar and [TS]

  it's kind of weird to have it in both [TS]

  places like the advantage should be as [TS]

  they showed in a couple other demos if [TS]

  I'm using touch bar that means those [TS]

  controls don't have to be on the screen [TS]

  like this the whole point of the touch [TS]

  bar i have them down here some more of [TS]

  the screen can be used to show me the [TS]

  content but maybe just because photos [TS]

  hasn't been updated to do that and the [TS]

  only way to be in edit mode is to have [TS]

  that view visible I don't know but [TS]

  anyway well we'll put this link and you [TS]

  get and you can check it out it's short [TS]

  it's one page and it's an interesting [TS]

  insight into how Apple expects the Dutch [TS]

  part can be used by developers write [TS]

  anything else worth talking about [TS]

  next we haven't talked about the max ram [TS]

  16 gigs Mac ram on a four thousand [TS]

  dollars that's okay [TS]

  yeah we're gonna do you got to say now [TS]

  on that one like 16 gigs that you know [TS]

  standard on the 15-inch fine i can [TS]

  almost kind of forgive eight gigs on the [TS]

  13 maybe maybe not but all 13 pro is [TS]

  increasingly less pro haven't talked [TS]

  about that but uh 16 gigs maximum on the [TS]

  big one not not a good choice not a good [TS]

  choice at all especially since it's such [TS]

  a powerful machine compared to the [TS]

  previous one like to have the same [TS]

  maximum but if you are going to run any [TS]

  vm those are going to end up your memory [TS]

  and if you're going to be doing all [TS]

  these fancy things that you can do on [TS]

  this this new computer with hi-res [TS]

  images and video 16 gigs of ram max is [TS]

  not great [TS]

  well I mean look let's be honest here I [TS]

  mean like I see people on Twitter and [TS]

  stop complaining like how could a pro [TS]

  machine not have this or have this [TS]

  whatever else apples use of the word pro [TS]

  is primarily about size and price target [TS]

  it it does not have to do with whether [TS]

  professionals whatever that means [TS]

  however you define that are able to use [TS]

  this computer for what they need or [TS]

  whether it's designed for them or not [TS]

  pro means it's the big expensive one [TS]

  period so the fact that pros often need [TS]

  more than 16 gigs of ram does not seem [TS]

  to enter apples thoughts about you know [TS]

  power whether to make that option with [TS]

  option available or not here I think it [TS]

  enters their thoughts that just one more [TS]

  battery to do it probably and that's [TS]

  where the sticking points i'm assuming I [TS]

  mean ram does use battery power and and [TS]

  not a small amount of it but compared to [TS]

  everything else in there i mean the [TS]

  15-inch has a 45 watt cpu next 235 lat [TS]

  GPU and and by the way one of the things [TS]

  that makes me sad about the new 15-inch [TS]

  is that I was always a fan of buying the [TS]

  low-end 15 a configuration that only had [TS]

  the intel integrated GPU which wich that [TS]

  option has been available now for quite [TS]

  some time i think since around twenty [TS]

  ten or so where it used to be [TS]

  first it was just always discreet and [TS]

  then eventually they they had these dual [TS]

  GPU models around 2008-2009 or something [TS]

  like that where they would have this one [TS]

  they had the high-power discrete GPU and [TS]

  they would also have the Intel [TS]

  integrated GPU and then it would switch [TS]

  between them based on and we know [TS]

  whether anything was running the needed [TS]

  more power of the big one and and the [TS]

  switching not only not only just having [TS]

  two GPUs and having a high-powered when [TS]

  they're in the first place [TS]

  not only does that raise the power [TS]

  requirement when that GPU is active and [TS]

  every the ceiling of how high the power [TS]

  consumption can get if it's under load [TS]

  but also there were often bugs switching [TS]

  between those two gpus it that's not an [TS]

  easy task and the mac switch between [TS]

  would often have weird issues and [TS]

  they're they're like why of visual [TS]

  glitches both gpus staying active using [TS]

  too much power [TS]

  occasionally even blue screens also the [TS]

  other problem is that having another big [TS]

  hot chip on the logic board will [TS]

  actually significantly raises the [TS]

  failure rates and many people there i [TS]

  think there have even been class actions [TS]

  against an extended service programs and [TS]

  everything we're often a 15-inch macbook [TS]

  pro will have a big problem with the GPU [TS]

  failing after my time is really just the [TS]

  additional heat and stress in the board [TS]

  and everything like they were big [TS]

  problems video back in the day and and [TS]

  these problems i don't know if there's [TS]

  any recent ones but it is basically [TS]

  there's enough of a downside to having a [TS]

  to having the discrete GPU in the [TS]

  15-inch both in in battery and heat in [TS]

  possible bugs and possible failures down [TS]

  the road [TS]

  that I've always favor the option [TS]

  because I'm i am neither a gamer nor do [TS]

  i use external monitors with my 15 [TS]

  inches like I just use it as itself when [TS]

  I do use it [TS]

  I've always been a fan of of buying the [TS]

  Intel only GPU version and for whatever [TS]

  reason that version that option is gone [TS]

  now [TS]

  now you can only buy it with the AMD one [TS]

  and somebody on Twitter told me earlier [TS]

  i don't know if this is true and [TS]

  somebody said that the the newest [TS]

  version of the intel integrated GPU that [TS]

  would be in this is actually slower than [TS]

  the previous one so that might be the [TS]

  reason Apple might have a legitimate [TS]

  reason for getting rid of adoption but [TS]

  what about what about the fact that it [TS]

  can drive to 5k displays I don't suspect [TS]

  was gonna mention that like there's [TS]

  there there's some big advantages to [TS]

  this and you lose the prostatic [TS]

  Markowitz the wannabes like I don't need [TS]

  to drive to find creative ways but i [TS]

  think all these reasons the one that is [TS]

  common to tell them in the both the [TS]

  memory and the GPU is uniformity if you [TS]

  just have one model it always comes with [TS]

  16 gigs always come to the GPU that's [TS]

  another cost savings that's another [TS]

  resource and investment thing how many [TS]

  different SKUs do you want to have how [TS]

  many different varieties do you want to [TS]

  have the rama soldered to the board if [TS]

  we have one with more RAM it's more of a [TS]

  pain like do you want to have on with [TS]

  and without discrete GPU just do the one [TS]

  discrete GPU because the one without you [TS]

  know the integrated ones crapping you [TS]

  can't drive the monitors and then how do [TS]

  you have for Thunderbolt three ports and [TS]

  everything you know so I there's a lot [TS]

  of reasons I can think of for for both [TS]

  of these choices but I have more faith [TS]

  in marco then in the discrete GPU simply [TS]

  because this one is 40 nanometers which [TS]

  is got to help with the heat and [TS]

  everything and I'm hoping that they have [TS]

  mostly worked out the kinks of the GPU [TS]

  switching if they can do it power wise [TS]

  it might be easier just to always use [TS]

  the discrete one that would probably be [TS]

  slaughtered your battery but that would [TS]

  be good from a bug perspective i know a [TS]

  lot of people use what was that thing [TS]

  called Marco the little menu bar that is [TS]

  a graphics card status by Cody Krieger [TS]

  yeah that's right yeah there was a [TS]

  utility where you could say you could [TS]

  make it use one GP with the other and [TS]

  one possible solution to bugs like [TS]

  lugging your laptop and just make it [TS]

  only use discrete GPU and then going to [TS]

  worry about it well but even even that [TS]

  was controversial because like even that [TS]

  one like it could force the discrete GPU [TS]

  to be on but it couldn't force the [TS]

  creepy to be all [TS]

  because be like under certain models [TS]

  like it would it would tell that that [TS]

  that utility that it wasn't that was it [TS]

  was integrated only but it's still [TS]

  running it would still run the discrete [TS]

  one anyway and it was it basically like [TS]

  you can never count on it to only use [TS]

  the integrated one you could as you said [TS]

  you could count always discreet but then [TS]

  you're losing a lot of battery life and [TS]

  making more heat to get that because you [TS]

  know the GPUs are very complicated GPU [TS]

  and I pop these days like a good one is [TS]

  almost or equally or even more [TS]

  complicated and heat demanding and [TS]

  battery demanding than a cpu so you know [TS]

  like that said that's 35 what GPU in [TS]

  there next to a 45 watt cpu that's a lot [TS]

  of extra power there so if you don't [TS]

  need it and you know again the document [TS]

  does the definition of pro there are [TS]

  lots of types of pro work that don't [TS]

  need GPU power I have never really [TS]

  needed my sheep our what I do I'm a pro [TS]

  tip doesn't mean she's a pro like lots [TS]

  of John but you don't need except for [TS]

  games but on your computer but you don't [TS]

  have it [TS]

  are you ready you don't need a graphics [TS]

  card power Casey do you need a good [TS]

  graphics card on your computer or your [TS]

  home one for that matter [TS]

  no but I think you're pretty giving a [TS]

  pretty narrow different definition of [TS]

  pro pro to you as someone who does the [TS]

  sorts of things that you or your family [TS]

  do and there's a lot of other flavors of [TS]

  pro that might necessitate that GPU and [TS]

  since I have the floor i will say that [TS]

  the only time I ever had problems with [TS]

  my 2011 to my 2 2011 macbook pros each [TS]

  with each of which had discreet cpu GPU [TS]

  is the only time I ever had any sort of [TS]

  glitches or issues was when i was [TS]

  running graphics card status when i was [TS]

  just using OS 10 or you know Mac OS now [TS]

  out-of-the-box I never had an issue [TS]

  except I could not agree with you more [TS]

  Marco that battery life just was [TS]

  slaughtered when the discrete GPUs on [TS]

  completely agree there but in terms of [TS]

  like glitches and stuff like that [TS]

  I never had any of those problems as [TS]

  soon as I stopped talking about graphics [TS]

  card status that since I stopped rolling [TS]

  graphics card status i would always by [TS]

  vitac choice and they had everything I [TS]

  would always buy the one with the [TS]

  discrete GPU anyway later game with all [TS]

  the bugs I even not just because of the [TS]

  game just because it's like look if [TS]

  you're buying the pro you just it's [TS]

  gonna be the biggest the hottest the you [TS]

  know and [TS]

  and like i said i think i have i have [TS]

  faith i like the fact that were not in [TS]

  the bad old days with the GPUs to be [TS]

  done on a word processing the cpu GPU is [TS]

  40 nanometers it is on actually it is [TS]

  actually the current architecture the [TS]

  AMD is a has out right now I think it's [TS]

  the current polaris instead of being [TS]

  like three or four generations behind [TS]

  like the embarrassing g it's not it's [TS]

  not the superfast some people are asking [TS]

  is this like a gaming laptop no it is [TS]

  not like this is not this is not the [TS]

  best cpu you can get in a laptop by a [TS]

  long stretch of the imagination but [TS]

  compared to what we had before like [TS]

  that's what they could put up the slide [TS]

  look it's a hundred percent faster it's [TS]

  like yeah because those ones were [TS]

  ancient and this one is contemporary [TS]

  middle-of-the-road you know probably not [TS]

  as clocked as high not the best of the [TS]

  best [TS]

  you know me but I like gpus I would [TS]

  always buy the one with the bigger GPU [TS]

  my laptop is going to be plugged in at [TS]

  work all the time anyway but it's it's [TS]

  good for it would be nice you know again [TS]

  options how many skills you have how [TS]

  many options do you have [TS]

  market would like one that has a big [TS]

  screen but doesn't have discrete GPU [TS]

  they don't make that product i think [TS]

  mostly because of uniformity make one of [TS]

  these computers were like one of those [TS]

  who make one of those they did until [TS]

  today I know actually a pretty little [TS]

  self [TS]

  yeah you might be what you might be able [TS]

  to stop by the old one because why would [TS]

  they stop selling it [TS]

  yeah but any basically so besides that I [TS]

  mean the 1500 ultimately the 15-second [TS]

  incredible update i I'm a little [TS]

  concerned about real-world battery use [TS]

  here I i I'm very very interested to see [TS]

  the reviews come out and to see people's [TS]

  experiences with these things as they [TS]

  come out because one of the problems [TS]

  that i've always had that I've had [TS]

  recently with a lot of the as i [TS]

  mentioned before a lot of the games [TS]

  we've made a battery life it recently in [TS]

  you know probably last five years at [TS]

  least has really been in reducing the [TS]

  the idle power levels of these chips and [TS]

  of computers basically reducing the [TS]

  amount of power that computers use when [TS]

  you're when you're using them very [TS]

  lightly for things like email and web [TS]

  browsing but as soon as you do anything [TS]

  that really strains them like many pro [TS]

  types of applications or running chrome [TS]

  then the battery life dropped [TS]

  tremendously like it like you might get [TS]

  10 hours if you're doing light web [TS]

  browsing but for hours if you're [TS]

  actually pushing it a little hard or two [TS]

  hours to be pushing it to the max and [TS]

  like this [TS]

  huge differences in in like a better [TS]

  life under under light loads and better [TS]

  life under moderate to heavy loads with [TS]

  this guy i fear that we're going more in [TS]

  that direction because you just look at [TS]

  the specs and you have these these big [TS]

  hot chips in there and the one that [TS]

  doesn't go in this direction that I'm [TS]

  very very interested in is the new [TS]

  macbook escape because that one I think [TS]

  we need to talk about so the macbook [TS]

  escape the new 13-inch low and one with [TS]

  the real FM keys is the one that I have [TS]

  pre-ordered or ordered I guess that it's [TS]

  gonna ride next week that the reason why [TS]

  is because as far as i can tell so [TS]

  here's here's the weird thing about this [TS]

  computer APPL quotes all three of these [TS]

  new macbook pros the macbook escape the [TS]

  new 13 with the touch bar and new [TS]

  15-minute x-bar they quote all three of [TS]

  them as having 10 hour battery life and [TS]

  if you look at what hardware is in them [TS]

  that doesn't quite make sense now the 15 [TS]

  of course the victim is a bigger battery [TS]

  that makes sense though you know it has [TS]

  much more power hungry components in it [TS]

  but it has a bigger battery you can kind [TS]

  of see that the 13 right 13 with touch [TS]

  bar and the 15 touch bar having very [TS]

  different components very different [TS]

  battery sizes can be made him to have [TS]

  the same battery life but the macbook [TS]

  escape has effectively the macbook air [TS]

  guts in it it has the macbook air [TS]

  processor which uses half the power of [TS]

  13 inch it has no notice of us look [TS]

  basically compared to the other 13 inch [TS]

  with the touch bar it has a processor [TS]

  that uses half the power max load it [TS]

  doesn't have the touch bar and whatever [TS]

  power it takes to drive the touch bar [TS]

  and it has ten percent larger battery [TS]

  capacity and it's quoted the same [TS]

  battery life that makes no sense to me [TS]

  my best guess here is that the 13-inch [TS]

  macbook escape gets substantially better [TS]

  battery life than the 13-inch macbook [TS]

  with touch bar but Apple probably didn't [TS]

  want to trumpet that at the low end one [TS]

  gets the best battery life in the whole [TS]

  lineup of these new things because that [TS]

  might discourage people from buying the [TS]

  new touch bar and by the way on this on [TS]

  the 13-inch model I'm kind of surprised [TS]

  that Apple emphasize this they're saying [TS]

  look [TS]

  it's the you know it's smaller than the [TS]

  air and has less volume in the air [TS]

  little things [TS]

  this is kind of the amazing futuristic [TS]

  computer either 12 or 13 inch one that [TS]

  the escape or the regular touch bar that [TS]

  I always wanted the air to be and they [TS]

  finally made it because I've always been [TS]

  cranky about the wedge shape like what [TS]

  do you what you know why you saying that [TS]

  space while you're scalping your [TS]

  batteries like the potatoes just making [TS]

  the same active and then it's not going [TS]

  to fit more battery in and they did it [TS]

  they finally did it [TS]

  this is a mac that is not thinner one of [TS]

  the other for aesthetic reasons which [TS]

  means they can fit more battery into it [TS]

  which means it probably gets really good [TS]

  battery life for the powerful internals [TS]

  it's got two ports instead of one there [TS]

  Thunderbolt three right that's wonderful [TS]

  three on that right and then not [TS]

  remembering that's right the Thunderbolt [TS]

  three like this is a hell of a laptop [TS]

  and it makes me you know it's it's bad [TS]

  for his best most people that is 500 [TS]

  also more expensive but I feel like it [TS]

  justifies that price by actually having [TS]

  modern technology in it and being being [TS]

  the same things all the way across and [TS]

  having better battery life and like that [TS]

  i don't think i would have gotten the [TS]

  escape one because I think touch bars [TS]

  too compelling it's like you're going to [TS]

  buy one is like the iphone and you're [TS]

  gonna buy one you get black and i'll get [TS]

  jack black is the new thing [TS]

  yeah uh but mark was making a bet on the [TS]

  battery life the specs seem to bear out [TS]

  your theory that it will have better [TS]

  battery life but don't you wanna play [TS]

  with touch bar [TS]

  what are you gonna do you do with this [TS]

  we'll see here's here's exactly the [TS]

  thing I if you are the kind of person [TS]

  listener if you use your laptop as your [TS]

  primary computer get the touch bar [TS]

  because you're right that is the new [TS]

  thing that might be the future pro apple [TS]

  will will wedge into the future with her [TS]

  but we're not so that will become the [TS]

  future it's gonna be great it's gonna be [TS]

  awesome and that'll be a new cool thing [TS]

  to use and play with it and to probably [TS]

  improve your productivity at least [TS]

  sometimes it's not all the time so if [TS]

  you're your laptop is your primary [TS]

  computer get the touch bar but that's [TS]

  it's not my primary computer my primary [TS]

  computer is my imac and hopefully next [TS]

  year another mac pro I get all my work [TS]

  done almost all the time [TS]

  a desktop so I'm not really going to get [TS]

  into the touch bar lifestyle and it's [TS]

  never going to be a thing that really [TS]

  like [TS]

  no that really gets get yourself into my [TS]

  workflow until i can use it on a desktop [TS]

  and a tension that might be never so [TS]

  right now what I do want out of a laptop [TS]

  is I would like one that is small and [TS]

  light and by the way just to put into [TS]

  perspective how small and light these [TS]

  new laptops are the new 13-inch macbook [TS]

  escape and the new 13-inch macbook are [TS]

  both as a as light as the 13-inch [TS]

  macbook air always has been the 15-inch [TS]

  is four pounds now that is substantially [TS]

  lighter than the 13 inch plastic [TS]

  macbooks were those were I think they're [TS]

  a five-point or five and a half i looked [TS]

  it up before the show and I forgot they [TS]

  might be in the four-and-a-half but [TS]

  regardless this is the the new 15-inch [TS]

  is lighter than the plastic macbook was [TS]

  and that was the small my computer of [TS]

  its day and that day was not that long [TS]

  ago so that's impressive [TS]