0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 329.
0:00:12It's made possible this week by our sponsors,
0:00:15Squarespace, Pingdom, and ExpressVPN.
0:00:18My name is Steven Hackett and I'm joined as always
0:00:21by Mr. Myke Hurley.
0:00:22- Hello.
0:00:24- Hello.
0:00:25How are you?
0:00:26- Oh, well, jinx.
0:00:27- Jinx.
0:00:29Now that'd be fun, wouldn't it?
0:00:30The jinx your podcast co-host?
0:00:33How's that one gonna last?
0:00:34- Can't talk until you bring me a coke.
0:00:36- Why is that the thing?
0:00:37- I don't know.
0:00:38- 'Cause here, if you jinx someone,
0:00:40the person can't speak again
0:00:43until you say their name three times.
0:00:45- Hmm, I don't know.
0:00:46- That's how it works.
0:00:47I don't know why coke's gotten into it.
0:00:49- I don't know.
0:00:50Well, there's a scene in "The Office" where that happens.
0:00:53And I don't know if it was a thing
0:00:55before that "Office" episode or not.
0:00:58Anyways, hello, I'm glad you're well.
0:01:01We're also joined by Federico Vatici.
0:01:03- Hello, I'm good before you ask.
0:01:05- Wow.
0:01:06- Yeah, I'm doing fine.
0:01:08- We haven't got time to waste.
0:01:10- No, we have a lot of stuff to talk about this week.
0:01:12- Nevermind me, go on, follow up, go on.
0:01:15- Follow up.
0:01:16We have a great idea sent in from a listener, Leon,
0:01:22who writes, "When air tags come out,
0:01:25"can you please all get some?
0:01:27then your significant others can hide them somewhere around your house or city if you can go outside
0:01:32and you can all race to see who can find their air tag the fastest in a competition we'll call
0:01:39the taggies. I don't know why anyone would think that we'd be interested in such trivial
0:01:47competition. I don't know, I'm not sure what it is that would make people believe that
0:01:52we would compete for such silly things but I guess somehow we've given ourselves this
0:01:59this mentality I suppose. People think of us. I'm not too opposed to the idea,
0:02:08personally. There are so many issues around rules for an event like this. I don't even want
0:02:15I don't even want to think about what the reading of the rules would look like because
0:02:19Well, what? Like if Sylvia hit it at the beach and you're in Rome and like Mary just hit Stevens in the back garden, like, you know.
0:02:32This to me sounds like the sort of game that we should be playing at WWDC.
0:02:37Yes.
0:02:37Once we can do that again in person.
0:02:39Oh my god, three air tags. They're hidden around the auditorium.
0:02:43This to me feels like a WWDC game.
0:02:49Yes, it really does. Ooh, I like the sound of this. Well, we can hold that for maybe
0:02:55three years or maybe not.
0:02:56Oh no, oh no. Please don't say it three years. 2022, come on, next year.
0:03:03I still don't think so. I still don't think so. I'm not putting any money on it.
0:03:10In relation to this, Federico, you last week very boldly claimed that you have never lost
0:03:17thing. That is still true. Even though it was proven on the episode that he had in fact
0:03:24lost multiple things. Yes. And you were supposed to double check that with Sylvia. Have you
0:03:30done this? Yeah I did. We cannot remember any single particular thing that I've lost.
0:03:37Well I mean I've told you. We're supposed to believe you. It's a heart rate monitor.
0:03:41you can text Sylvia if you don't believe me. But like I have an example. I have the example.
0:03:48That was stolen from me. Your heart rate went up. You lost that. It was stolen from me.
0:03:51I didn't lose it. It was stolen. It was taken from me. To be on somebody else's sweaty chest.
0:03:59Not mine. So. Now that he's mad.
0:04:08The streak is unbroken. Stephen has broken another iPhone.
0:04:12When you say another, that's kind of a loaded term.
0:04:16Yeah, he's right. Another.
0:04:18I'm pretty sure you have broken a version of every iPhone for like the last four years.
0:04:23Well, let's find out.
0:04:24You break every one of them?
0:04:25Let's find out. I keep a list.
0:04:28How?
0:04:29I keep a list.
0:04:29You keep a list of the phones you've broken?
0:04:32Yes.
0:04:32That shows how often you break phones.
0:04:35Well, it shows that I don't have a list.
0:04:36I don't have a list.
0:04:37I care about my content creation job.
0:04:38I have never broken an iPhone.
0:04:41Should we go through this history?
0:04:42Yeah.
0:04:43iPhone 4s fell out of my car at a job I used to have, facedown with a parking lot and broke.
0:04:51Mm-hmm.
0:04:52iPhone 6 was dropped down a flight of stairs in a parking garage.
0:04:55Mm-hmm.
0:04:56People remember that one, I think.
0:05:00Super dead.
0:05:03iPhone 6 Plus was bent by the emergency brake in my car.
0:05:10iPhone 7 Plus got knocked off my desk in my office, which has concrete floors, and it
0:05:15missed the rug by about 4 inches and shattered.
0:05:19iPhone 10, I just have "unknown."
0:05:22I'm not sure what happened to that one.
0:05:25iPhone XS Max, I was working under my truck and I dropped a tool on the screen on my phone
0:05:31and broke it.
0:05:32Yeah.
0:05:32Mm-hmm.
0:05:33And then the iPhone 12 Pro, I broke the back glass while dropping it while tripping.
0:05:38You didn't break the iPhone 11?
0:05:40No.
0:05:41And not like 420 tripping, I tripped over a rug.
0:05:44If you would have broken iPhone 11, you would have been like on a streak from the iPhone 6.
0:05:50Yep.
0:05:506, 7, 10, 10S.
0:05:52Do we all agree that the problem is you at this point?
0:05:56You mean we have to?
0:05:57Like, do you realize that you have a problem?
0:06:00Seems like it.
0:06:01yeah like really like this is what you keep breaking everything life when you
0:06:08have is it like a fetish like why I love the sound of glass real problem yeah
0:06:15like is this how you get your kicks he just like walks around holding it just
0:06:20two fingers like well now be the time I don't understand I don't know it just
0:06:28happens to me. Like you know it's not necessary to break it. Is it just iPhones? Like if you
0:06:33only broke iPhones do you break other things? Like technology wise? Mmm I broke a laptop
0:06:38screen in the past, a laptop fell and I broke a screen. That was recent right? Uh-huh it
0:06:44was like last year. Do you break other things consistently in your life? No I've never broken
0:06:49an iPad. My foot. I broke an iPad. My foot I guess counts. It was only once. So yeah
0:06:57It's quite a record, but I got my new phone here and I got some bad news about the new
0:07:02phone.
0:07:03It's not broken.
0:07:04Don't worry.
0:07:05You just just to confirm you got you had Apple Care, right?
0:07:09You did know I this is why I buy Apple Care on my phones because I know this is going
0:07:12to happen.
0:07:14You've really got your money back over time.
0:07:16Oh, yeah.
0:07:18So I shipped my broken iPhone back to Apple just this morning, actually, and have my new
0:07:23phone.
0:07:24I got it set up yesterday did the migration thing.
0:07:26as a sidebar the direct phone to phone transfer like over wireless is awesome
0:07:31it's the second or third time I've used it and I cannot say enough good things
0:07:36about it especially if you do it overnight and you don't miss using your
0:07:40phone although this morning both phones went off with my alarm the problem is
0:07:45doing it on launch day because you want to use the phone and the phones like out
0:07:50of action for three hours or whatever yeah you know the discord thinks that
0:07:56Apple's gonna stop selling me Apple Care at some point. Is that a thing? I don't
0:08:00think, I hope not. I mean it's like an insurance, right? Like if you keep
0:08:04claiming at a certain point you're costing them more money. Maybe. Maybe they
0:08:08will just like cut you off. You think they're thinking you're committing
0:08:12Apple Care fraud? I mean the phones are really broken and I pay them $99 a time
0:08:16to replace it. But still, can we get to the bad news? So the bad news is, last
0:08:25night I have my old broken phone which was now in a case. So you're painting a
0:08:31whole picture. Yeah I gotta paint the picture. Sure. What did you have for
0:08:35dinner? What did I have for dinner? I don't know what I had for dinner last night.
0:08:39Smell in the air. Yeah, smell of broken glass. So my broken phone which is being
0:08:46held together by the case it was now in, I put it in a case after I broke it to
0:08:49keep it together, that phone was sitting on the MagSafe charger on my nightstand
0:08:53stand and I brought a lightning cable in and had the new phone plugged into
0:08:59lightning because I knew this was gonna take three hours I didn't want the
0:09:01phones to die while this was going on and I go to lay down and I hear
0:09:08something I hear a little sound and I had flashbacks to my iPhone 7 plus and I
0:09:16realized that my new phone makes the same coil whine hissing noise here we go
0:09:22again. That my phone 7 plus did. Stop the presses, Steven's going on the morning shows.
0:09:27No, no, this cannot be happening again.
0:09:29So if you're not aware of what happened, I had an iPhone 7 plus that did this. I shot the world's
0:09:36worst video of it and posted it over the weekend and it went viral. 1.6 million views. Is that what
0:09:43it's up to? Golly. And also to say you shot a video is a real stretch. It's just a picture.
0:09:50and some sound.
0:09:51(laughing)
0:09:52It's not great.
0:09:53- It's a 30 second video of a hiss.
0:09:55- Yeah, it was on like the morning shows on Monday.
0:09:59It was wild.
0:10:00It was a terrible, terrible weekend.
0:10:02- It started with a gate.
0:10:03- It was a gate.
0:10:04It was his skate.
0:10:05- It was a gate.
0:10:06Yeah, his skate.
0:10:06- So anyways, this phone only seemed to do it
0:10:10when it was transferring,
0:10:11which is a really heavy duty task,
0:10:14and it doesn't do it now, even if it's plugged in.
0:10:17So I checked it this morning.
0:10:18it doesn't make noise. So hopefully it's all good to go.
0:10:23One thing I have noticed, like still my iPhone, it gets hot sometimes, like really hot to
0:10:29the touch sometimes. I don't know if this is the thing that I'm just not wearing a case
0:10:33on my phone, so maybe they've been like this for a while, but there is like just a point
0:10:37on the top left of my phone kind of in the back, so it'd be the top right on the back
0:10:41if you're looking at it on the back, where it gets a bit hot to the touch.
0:10:45Ian has updated the Relay FM fandom wiki with your page, Steven, with a list of all the
0:10:53devices you've broken.
0:10:55Does Federico have a page yet?
0:10:56So if people want to check your list.
0:10:58I was the first one to have a page.
0:11:00Yeah, we got upset about this because it says "Superpowers never loses anything, may temporarily
0:11:05mishandle items" is Federico's page.
0:11:09You live outside of London with your wife, Arumba, and a growing collection of mechanical
0:11:13keyboards.
0:11:14You started a gate five years ago, but you have started a gate with these AirPods Max
0:11:20battery issues.
0:11:21No I haven't.
0:11:22You see?
0:11:23This is a thing that I learned.
0:11:25So I was having problems with the, I've mentioned this right, the battery on my AirPods.
0:11:31And I hadn't heard anybody mention it at that point.
0:11:33I hadn't heard it said anywhere, I hadn't read it anywhere.
0:11:37Where did I talk about it?
0:11:38On this show.
0:11:39Where did I not talk about it?
0:11:40On Twitter.
0:11:41I knew if I tweeted about it, someone was going to make it a thing. Like that time when
0:11:47I realized that it was like the iPhone 6s or something that the button, because remember
0:11:55they turned the button to be like a solid state button, right? Remember that? It didn't
0:12:01move anymore. And I realized that that meant that like if you had gloves on or whatever,
0:12:06you couldn't use the home button. So I tweeted it. And then like my Twitter account exploded
0:12:11for 24 hours, nowhere near the level of his gate.
0:12:14But it ended up in some company sending me gloves
0:12:17that had touch ID capabilities for them.
0:12:20So what I didn't want to do is tweet about the fact
0:12:23that the battery was bad on my AirPods Pro Max.
0:12:26But now there have been like forum posts and stuff like this forum posts.
0:12:31So MacRumors, a 9 to 5 Mac, picked it up.
0:12:34I'm still experiencing this.
0:12:37The thing is, it's random.
0:12:38like some days my AirPods Max are fine, other days they're completely dead and this is even when I
0:12:44leave them in the little silly case. So I haven't been able to track down any reproducible steps for
0:12:49it. It basically seems like from my experience and the experience of others that are reporting issues
0:12:55that their headphones they're not correctly switching to low power mode and maybe staying
0:13:00connected to devices when they're not supposed to be and it's like it's just draining the battery
0:13:07because they're just on all night. I tried like, I wondered if maybe my Macs were the issue or
0:13:13something, I don't know, like maybe the new M1 Mac and these weren't playing nicely together,
0:13:18so I turned off like automatic detection for the Macs but it hasn't changed anything
0:13:22because I'm still having issues on my AirPods Macs rather than my Macintosh's.
0:13:29I don't know, it's a thing, people are seeing it, I now expect that they're going to fix it somehow
0:13:35because people are writing articles about it now.
0:13:39Anything else in follow-up we need to address?
0:13:42Probably not.
0:13:44Do I have a motion to close follow-up?
0:13:48Is this a thing now?
0:13:50I don't know. Motion it and see what happens.
0:13:54What would you say? What's the opposite of motion denied?
0:13:56What would you say? Would you say motion -- seconded?
0:13:58Is it -- so I second it?
0:13:59Someone has to motion, and someone has to second.
0:14:02Okay. So you would say --
0:14:03So like I motion to move to ad break?
0:14:05Yes.
0:14:06Do I have a second?
0:14:07And then Federico has to second it.
0:14:08What do I have to say?
0:14:12Motion seconded?
0:14:13Seconded?
0:14:14I second the motion.
0:14:15There you go.
0:14:16I second the motion, yes.
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0:16:06So Apple are doing podcast related things.
0:16:09There's things they are doing, things they're rumored to do, uh,
0:16:14but movements continue to occur. One of these, um,
0:16:17is according to 9to5Mac,
0:16:21sources have told them that there are Apple Music and Apple
0:16:26podcast apps coming to Windows, which is interesting because Windows currently has iTunes and so
0:16:34it looks like they're going to be bringing those apps over. I mean this could mean a
0:16:38bunch of different things I suppose but I think ultimately it just, even if Apple wasn't
0:16:42doing anything else with podcasts, I think it makes sense to kill iTunes on Windows if
0:16:47they're going to continue wanting to support Windows and have an Apple Music app and a
0:16:51podcast app because they're the brands like iTunes is not a brand for Apple
0:16:56anymore but Apple Music and Apple podcasts are so rather than just leaving
0:17:02iTunes on Windows to be this like withering on the vine type thing they
0:17:07should actually make the applications that the other platforms have I think.
0:17:13About a year ago maybe there were some job postings that pointed towards this
0:17:18- Yeah.
0:17:19- And you're right, iTunes on Windows
0:17:22is like stepping back in time.
0:17:24It's really weird to use.
0:17:26And it doesn't put Apple Music front and center.
0:17:29I think that's what they want.
0:17:30What surprises me about this really is that I,
0:17:34we may see this before my pick of Apple podcasts on Android,
0:17:40which I think makes more sense than this
0:17:42'cause most podcasts,
0:17:43if something happens on mobile devices,
0:17:45but who knows, maybe that's coming too.
0:17:48But this would bring Windows along with the current state of Apple media apps.
0:17:53Yeah, I'm now coming around to podcasts on Android, but only if they do what is
0:18:02reported to be done, like the information had that report that they're looking to
0:18:07have some kind of podcast subscription service with original content.
0:18:11If Apple do do that, then I also expect there to be Apple podcasts on Android.
0:18:17The current product and their offering I don't think really dictates it, but at the point
0:18:23that they want to start making it part of the overall services thing, they might want
0:18:28to look at bringing that over.
0:18:30I mean it does start to get awkward because then like, you know, Fitness Plus is part
0:18:34of it technically, but that wouldn't work, you know?
0:18:37Like because it's so integrated with Apple Watch, but Apple TV is on other platforms.
0:18:44So yeah, it gets a bit murky, but I could imagine podcasts being more like Apple TV
0:18:50than say, News+ or Fitness+ in what Apple offers for it to other platforms.
0:18:57And there was also this thing, I read about this on Macintosh stories.net.
0:19:02There is a new editorial feature for Apple podcasts where every month they're going to
0:19:07feature a podcast from a quote, "up and coming creator".
0:19:12Human Curation on the Podcasts directory or store, whatever you want to call it, is not
0:19:18new.
0:19:19In fact, they've been doing this for longer than any of their other Curation things like
0:19:22the App Store or Apple Music.
0:19:26Podcasts on Apple's devices and iTunes and everything, there's been an element of Human
0:19:31Curation in it always.
0:19:33It's always been a thing.
0:19:35And they also have human submissions.
0:19:39So all submissions to Apple podcasts, they're listened to by a human for the first time
0:19:45when you want to get your feed in the store.
0:19:47Maybe that plays into the curation, but I know that there's always been a curation element.
0:19:51What's kind of different about this is they put lengthy editor's notes in this first spotlight,
0:19:58which is for a podcast called Celebrity Book Club by Chelsea Devanteze.
0:20:04This is the first Apple podcast spotlight and then they wrote a big thing about why
0:20:07they're picking it. I imagine this could be the start of a potential redesign of Apple
0:20:15Podcasts that makes it more like the App Store with editorial stuff. You know, like when
0:20:19you go into the App Store and they've got all those little stories. I could imagine
0:20:22them doing that with podcasts just because there's so much content. They could quite
0:20:26easily make these like, "Hey, here's a bunch of shows about this." Because again, they
0:20:30already do this. There are categories on the podcasts directory. I could imagine them maybe
0:20:36wanting to expand it out a little bit more than what they've currently got and
0:20:41this could be the start of that. I think it's definitely gonna be something they
0:20:44do more and more. I mean there's even some of that in Apple Music right? So I
0:20:48think that this follows that logic pretty well. We spoke about AirPods Max a
0:20:55little bit ago. iFixit did a teardown and came across some weird stuff I guess
0:21:02is maybe the best way to describe it. So they found out that you can take the
0:21:09headband off by of the of the like the ear cups by removing the magnetic ear
0:21:16cups and then using a sim ejector tool you poke it in a hole and you can pull
0:21:21out the headband from the ear cup and this seems like you know it's like a
0:21:26weird thing and you know I've seen people say like aha this is gonna allow
0:21:30for people to change their headbands.
0:21:33And that didn't make any sense to me
0:21:34because it's like it feels very much
0:21:36like a service thing like the Apple
0:21:38Watch data port, right?
0:21:40That like you can pop open this
0:21:42little door on an Apple Watch
0:21:43and someone can stick
0:21:45a cable in it.
0:21:47And now like you can
0:21:50do some.
0:21:51Sorry, I just punched my microphone
0:21:52literally into my face.
0:21:54I actually got quite a little bit.
0:21:56I got so excited about the Apple
0:21:58the AirPods.
0:21:59I punched myself in the face with my microphone.
0:22:01You know, you can do that with the services thing for like
0:22:12for the Apple Watch, they can plug it in Apple support
0:22:15and they can do the diagnostics or whatever.
0:22:17So I just figured that this is a similar thing, right?
0:22:19Because it seems like such a weird thing to do.
0:22:21But the nine to five Mac found code in iOS 4.4
0:22:25that can detect a headphone band type,
0:22:29Which made me go back to thinking about the original report, right?
0:22:32That Mark Gurman put out ages ago about multiple material options and then apparently there were some kind of delays.
0:22:39I wanted to know what you guys thought because now people are like "aha maybe you can change the headbands"
0:22:44but this seems like too weird and tricky still as a way to do it?
0:22:49Yeah, it feels like it requires too many steps. I don't know.
0:22:57I'm intrigued by it because of the whole idea of, obviously we talked about this months ago,
0:23:04like perhaps you want to have a headband for running and a headband for different types of
0:23:09workouts or just different materials, different colors, whatever. And software being
0:23:14aware of it means maybe it can detect and it can adjust certain types of workouts, for example,
0:23:24if there's going to be a support headband. That was the idea at the time. Now obviously, like,
0:23:29the procedure for changing the headband, I'm not sure about it because it feels like a very hacky
0:23:37way to do it. It's very different from magnetic ear cups, right? Like, one is magnets, the other is...
0:23:43Or changing a watch band, right? Yeah, the others. Just grab your sim ejector tool, like, okay.
0:23:51I continue to be intrigued by the idea. I'm not sure how exactly Apple could deliver on it.
0:23:57Like, we're just speculating here. Oh, wouldn't it be cool if you had a headband just for workouts?
0:24:02Yes, it would be cool, but what would it actually mean in practice? We don't know.
0:24:05But still, the way that they do it, the iFixit folks do it, I don't think there's going to be
0:24:12an official way for consumers to do it. I just got a sim ejector tool.
0:24:16Do it. Do you want me to try it?
0:24:17Yes. You should do it live.
0:24:19I'm doing it. Oh god. The Apple sim ejector tool is not long enough.
0:24:24Maybe like a safety pin or paper clip? Oh no no it is long enough. No it's not. No it's not.
0:24:30No it's not. No it's not. No I'm not gonna keep trying it. I've decided.
0:24:34Well just keep digging around inside your $3,000 headphones.
0:24:37Yeah tried it a little bit. Not gonna try it any more than that. Oh god I bent this sim
0:24:42ejector tool a little bit. Oh no. I'm done. I'm done. I couldn't find mine and my replacement
0:24:48phone oddly didn't it come with one of the box so I used a safety pin this morning to move my sim
0:24:52card over but it worked that's weird that a replacement phone wouldn't come with the sim
0:24:57ejector tool yeah I looked through all the paperwork unless I just missed it did I send it in a regular
0:25:02box it's in a cardboard box and inside that's like a white service box oh so it's not like a proper
0:25:08iphone box no no no no it's a service that's why the iFixit teardown is super interesting I mean
0:25:14This thing is vastly over-engineered.
0:25:18It is what you expect from Apple,
0:25:22but we don't often see it in something like headphones.
0:25:27Like, yeah, the Mac Pro is over-engineered,
0:25:29but it doesn't have a much of moving parts
0:25:32and springs and stuff.
0:25:34The thing that really jumped out at me
0:25:37is the connection between the two sides.
0:25:39So obviously there has to be some sort of connection
0:25:42between the two for power and charging and all that stuff.
0:25:47So Apple uses an electromechanical hinge.
0:25:51This thing has a flex cable
0:25:55that is in the rotating portion of the joint.
0:25:58So if you have the AirPod Max,
0:26:00it's kind of like a ball and shoulder type joint there.
0:26:04And there's springs and switches
0:26:07to help keep the cable from breaking down
0:26:11as the AirPod, I guess the ear cups and the band move
0:26:15independently of each other.
0:26:17And there are these two large springs
0:26:19that do the clamping pressure.
0:26:22And all this has to be designed as they pointed out,
0:26:24something I didn't think of,
0:26:26which is why I'm not a hardware designer at Apple, I guess,
0:26:28probably just this one reason,
0:26:30that anything inside these ear cups has to survive
0:26:35over the course of its lifespan,
0:26:38hours and hours of vibration because of the driver in the ear cups, right? So everything in here is
0:26:46moving or vibrating and it all has to work and not break down and screws can't come loose and
0:26:53there's actually way more screws than this than I thought. I kind of thought it'd all be glued
0:26:56together and there's, it seems relatively easy for the most part to take apart if you have the right
0:27:02bits and kind of know what you're doing. The whole thing was very impressive to me. I can't believe
0:27:07that it got a six out of ten for repairability from iFixit. This seems like a high score these days.
0:27:14You know, like over-engineered is it sounds negative, right? That phrase.
0:27:23It doesn't necessarily mean it's negative, but there is... it's over-engineered compared to
0:27:33other products. Like, in the iFixit teardown, they open up one of the Sony headphones.
0:27:39The insides, and like the, I think Bose ones too, the insides of them just look so much more simple.
0:27:46Now, you can make a very good argument that like the over-engineering there is like, well,
0:27:52the Sony ones also sound really good and they didn't need to go to the wild lengths that Apple
0:27:58have gone to, but this is just the way that they do things. Every company makes things differently
0:28:06and Apple is starting from a different place. They're like, "We make computers, now we'll make
0:28:12headphones." And maybe that means that you end up doing things in a way which is complicated,
0:28:21but does result in a great product.
0:28:24It's not like the over-engineering is pointless,
0:28:28but it can also then explain why these are so expensive
0:28:31because they seem to be very complicated to make.
0:28:36- Well, that's why these things feel so premium, right?
0:28:40Premium is about how something feels in your hand
0:28:43and how it moves.
0:28:44Apple really cares about that sort of thing.
0:28:47And all of this engineering is what makes that possible,
0:28:50right?
0:28:51like flimsy plastic because there's no flimsy plastic in them.
0:28:54And they're heavy and you can see looking at this
0:28:58why they're so heavy because they're built like tanks.
0:29:01So we're like a what, a couple of months
0:29:04into these being out, like are y'all still
0:29:07in love with them?
0:29:08Are you using them a bunch?
0:29:09'Cause I've returned mine, I like to kind of check in
0:29:11and see how it's going.
0:29:12- I use them every day, I love them.
0:29:15Every day I use them.
0:29:17- Yeah, I really like them.
0:29:18I basically listen to them, yeah, nearly every day.
0:29:22I was actually looking for replacement ear pads
0:29:25the other day because I wanted to mix and match
0:29:27the black and red colors,
0:29:29but those are still not available on the Apple Store.
0:29:32But yeah, I like them.
0:29:33I like them.
0:29:33I'm a big fan of the digital crown approach.
0:29:37As time goes on,
0:29:38I really think that's a genius way to do it.
0:29:41Just because I know how much I dislike gestures
0:29:45and these finicky controls on other headphones.
0:29:48So having this physical volume knob up there,
0:29:54it's really well done.
0:29:55It's really nice.
0:29:56I don't particularly use noise cancellation these days,
0:29:59because it's not like I'm on a train or on a plane
0:30:02or somewhere, just at home.
0:30:04There's not much noise to cancel these days.
0:30:08But yeah, the volume works really well,
0:30:10and the sound is fantastic.
0:30:13I confirm my judgment from a few weeks back.
0:30:17These are the best wireless headphones I've ever had.
0:30:21And I don't use Siri, so I don't care about that part.
0:30:24I just use it with Spotify and watching the occasional video.
0:30:28Sometimes with my Apple TV, works totally OK.
0:30:31So yeah, great sound.
0:30:33Could be cheaper, I guess, but also the built quality,
0:30:36it speaks for itself.
0:30:37It's like wearing a HomePod around your head, basically.
0:30:41So, you know, you pay for that kind of experience.
0:30:46And that kind of build quality as well.
0:30:48- Anything else with the AirPods Max?
0:30:52- Well, I guess the only thing I wanna say is,
0:30:55I'm curious to see if this is the kind of product
0:30:57that will be updated in a few years.
0:31:00Because if this is the kind of build quality
0:31:02that we see in this first version,
0:31:04it feels to me again, comparing to the HomePod,
0:31:08to the first generation HomePod,
0:31:10This feels to me like the once every X years kind of accessory.
0:31:16I would be very surprised, I would be possibly surprised if this follow an annual update schedule like other AirPods.
0:31:24I'm just very skeptical about that, given the nature of, you know, and the price of what this is.
0:31:32I reckon it's every couple of years.
0:31:34Yeah, that seems more likely, you know.
0:31:37Because the AirPods Pro have passed a year, right?
0:31:40Don't they announce in like October or something of 2019?
0:31:45Yeah, I think so.
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0:33:09How's your Mac Pro feeling?
0:33:11It's great.
0:33:12I can touch the handle right now.
0:33:14It's very smooth, it's cool to the touch.
0:33:17Don't touch it too much in case it rolls away and all your cables unplug.
0:33:19It's got wheels.
0:33:21Do you lock those wheels in any way?
0:33:22Do you do anything to stop it from moving?
0:33:25No, but it's on a rug and so it's not really going to go anywhere on its own.
0:33:31So how are you feeling about this Mark Gorman report?
0:33:33I think it's really interesting.
0:33:35Gurman has been doing a lot of reporting
0:33:37and y'all broke a lot of it down on upgrade on Monday,
0:33:41which was a really, really good episode.
0:33:43The report says a couple of things.
0:33:45So it says that there's two Mac Pros in the works.
0:33:50One is full-sized, meaning the enclosure looks
0:33:55the way that the 2019 enclosure looks,
0:33:57you know, the big, big tower.
0:33:59And that there's discussion with an Apple
0:34:01that that machine may come with an Intel processor.
0:34:05There's also this second model, which is more mysterious,
0:34:08that is quote, half-sized,
0:34:10which is a term he used previously in another report.
0:34:14This report, he likens it to the design
0:34:16of the Power Mac G4 Cube,
0:34:18and says that it is also a Mac Pro, but obviously smaller.
0:34:23When you look at what is inside a Mac Pro,
0:34:26it is mostly air until you fill it up with PCI cards.
0:34:31or MPX modules, which are just Apple's fancy PCI modules that also use
0:34:36Thunderbolt and Apple uses them for their GPUs. So in my Mac Pro for instance, I've
0:34:41got the GPU, I've got an afterburner, and I have a card with some SSDs on it. So
0:34:49I'm using a good bit of mine. Mine has less air in it than it did when I first
0:34:53got it, and I have two hard drives up at the top. In thinking about the first
0:34:59one saying that there's another full-size machine with an Intel processor
0:35:04in it. That seems to me like a spec bump of the 2019 Mac Pro. Yeah. I think that
0:35:11makes sense for a couple of reasons. The Mac Pro is always gonna go last and so
0:35:16if Apple does take two years the Mac Pro at that point would be three and a half
0:35:23years old or so I think mm-hmm two and a half years old it would be getting
0:35:29older at that point there are people who need to stay on the previous architecture
0:35:36it was a huge deal power PC to Intel people needed to stay on power PC for
0:35:41certain reasons the things that Rosetta couldn't handle or hardware support for
0:35:46something weird or something like that this time around you not only have an
0:35:50architecture change, but you also have the fact that in Big Sur and moving
0:35:56forward, the way kernel extensions are handled is different. And if you're a pro
0:36:02using pro apps that use kernel extensions, you could get locked out of
0:36:06those in the future. And if your software isn't super actively developed, that
0:36:10could be a problem. And so there are people, there's not many of them, out of
0:36:13the Mac Pro community, which is not many people to begin with, a subsection of
0:36:18them would maybe want to stay on Intel longer and want a as new of an Intel Mac
0:36:26as possible. Now from Apple's perspective I don't know how much sense that makes. I
0:36:31think it makes some sense from the consumers perspective but from Apple's
0:36:36perspective it does a couple things. One you're putting an Intel machine out and
0:36:39you probably just don't want to do that but it also resets the clock on how long
0:36:45you need to support Intel hardware in your OSes. So in the PowerPC to Intel
0:36:51transition, Tiger ran on PowerPC and Intel, Leopard ran on PowerPC and Intel,
0:36:58but Snow Leopard did not. Snow Leopard dropped support for PowerPC and it was
0:37:04Intel only and it was only, let's see, Snow Leopard was in 2009, so it was really
0:37:13only a few years after the first Intel Macs shipped, three years. I don't think Apple
0:37:21could get away with revising a Mac Pro or any Intel Mac in 2021 and drop them in 2024,
0:37:30especially if it's high end hardware. Now, the the caveat to that is Apple only supports
0:37:38It's current release minus two for security updates.
0:37:41So right now we have Big Sur, Catalina,
0:37:44and Mojave are getting security updates.
0:37:47High Sierra is not anymore.
0:37:49So three years does rule out the security update issue,
0:37:54but it just seems to me that if they're gonna say,
0:37:58"Hey, there's gonna be one last Intel Mac,
0:38:00and it's an upgrade to the best Intel Mac we ever made,"
0:38:04it seems to me that puts Apple on the hook
0:38:07for another year or two of OS support for Intel Macs.
0:38:12I don't know if that's a concern of theirs.
0:38:15Part of me already thinks that Mac OS
0:38:19is gonna support Intel Macs longer
0:38:21than Mac OS X supported PowerPC Macs
0:38:24because there are way more Intel Macs out there
0:38:27than there ever were PowerPC Macs, right?
0:38:30They operate at such a bigger scale now,
0:38:33it's a lot more people to make mad.
0:38:35So I don't know.
0:38:36Hey Federico, do you remember two weeks ago when Steven said that there would be no more
0:38:46Intel Macs on sale at the end of 2021?
0:38:49I remember that.
0:38:50Yeah.
0:38:51That was fun, right?
0:38:52That was fun at the time.
0:38:53Super fun.
0:38:54It's aging really well.
0:38:55It's extra fun now.
0:38:56Yeah.
0:38:57It's going really well for you, man.
0:38:59Yeah, you've had a great start to the year.
0:39:01It really seems like annual picks die quickly or at the very end of the year.
0:39:06There's no in between.
0:39:08They get solved very fast and then nothing happens for a long time and then it's all
0:39:14in September.
0:39:17So the longevity of Intel Macs is a question for me and this rumored Intel Mac Pro spec
0:39:25bump definitely plays into that.
0:39:29I don't even know if the 2019 Mac Pro needs a spec bump. I mean, if you could do anything,
0:39:34do what you did with the iMac Pro, get rid of the slowest CPU, or you know, the fewest
0:39:40core CPU and just bump the prices accordingly. Right? Or do that with a GPU, not a spec bump,
0:39:47but a configuration change to make it a little bit better value.
0:39:51Are there new Intel chips they could put in these?
0:39:53I don't follow the Xeon W landscape very well, but maybe.
0:39:58I mean, I don't know. I just don't know that answer to that.
0:40:01Maybe if someone does let us know.
0:40:03They could have new MPX modules or something.
0:40:07Yeah. And they have, they've had newer GPU's.
0:40:09The GPU I have in mind wasn't for sale on day one.
0:40:12That's all they've done with MPX modules.
0:40:15There hasn't been like an afterburner for audio or, you know,
0:40:18any of the other wild stuff we dreamed of,
0:40:20But they have begrudgingly released some new GPUs.
0:40:26But even the high-end stuff, there's
0:40:27new AMD stuff they haven't made into an MPX module yet.
0:40:32So I don't know.
0:40:33I mean, my plan when I bought this machine-- look,
0:40:35I bought this at the end of 2019.
0:40:37And it was heavily rumored that Apple
0:40:40was going to go with Apple Silicon at some point.
0:40:43And they did it six months later, right?
0:40:45They did it one year after announcing the 2019 Mac Pro.
0:40:49My plan is to run this until I can't put new versions
0:40:52of Mac OS on it anymore, and then I'll reconsider.
0:40:56So for me, none of this really changes my decision
0:40:59and the way that I plan on using this machine
0:41:01for years to come.
0:41:02This is not a machine I can casually change out
0:41:04like a laptop, like way too much money into it for that.
0:41:08- Mark it.
0:41:09- Yeah, please save this clip.
0:41:11- Everybody, what is it, episode 329.
0:41:17He's gonna find a way or justification for getting the new Mac Pro.
0:41:24I have...
0:41:25We all know.
0:41:26I have a second desk and that desk needs a Mac Pro on it.
0:41:31So yeah somehow because like he's gonna make his studio bigger and well what you gotta
0:41:39do with all that room am I right?
0:41:41So he's gonna find a way to to get it and I don't even know why you say these things
0:41:47anymore. Yeah, you shouldn't say them so definitively like that, because look, what they are announcing
0:41:54is a computer you are going to be very excited about, like a G4 Cube-esque Mac Pro with power
0:42:02by Apple Silicon. I mean, even I want it, and I have no use for it. I absolutely do
0:42:11not need it, but I kind of want it, so. Me too, I'm like in for it. So the second part
0:42:17of this report is that there is a half size Mac Pro in the works, powered by Apple silicon.
0:42:24So if you go back to my opening, if a Mac Pro basically ships as a as an aluminum box
0:42:29full of air, and it's your job to displace that air with technology, half size smaller
0:42:34Mac Pro, whether it's cube shaped or not.
0:42:38And like can we just say you said this on upgrade, I want to say it here.
0:42:41Apple's never done a successful small Pro desktop machine.
0:42:45They just haven't.
0:42:46The Cube failed.
0:42:482013 Mac Pro failed miserably.
0:42:51Whatever.
0:42:52We'll see what this does.
0:42:54So the question is, if it's smaller, what do they get rid of?
0:42:57How do they reduce the amount of air they ship in this machine?
0:43:02And the clear answer is, fewer expansion slots.
0:43:05Because if you look at the inside of the Mac Pro, if you think, well, okay, well, the CPU
0:43:09could be smaller, whatever, like, the CPU takes up very little space inside this tower.
0:43:15Very little.
0:43:17And the power supply's in the bottom.
0:43:19So you still have a power supply.
0:43:21It'd be smaller, I would assume,
0:43:22but it's not like it eats into the space.
0:43:25It's video cards and expansion slots,
0:43:27so expansion cards that take up space.
0:43:31And if you think about where Apple Silicon is today,
0:43:35right now, okay, right now you have CPU, GPU,
0:43:40and memory basically shipping as a unit, right?
0:43:45The memory is slightly off to the side,
0:43:47but system-on-a-chip design is very different
0:43:50than what's in the Intel machines,
0:43:52especially the Mac Pro,
0:43:53where there are actually different parts.
0:43:56I don't think that Apple could half the size of the Mac Pro
0:44:01without fundamentally changing the way that it works.
0:44:09So would this Mac Pro come with an Apple GPU
0:44:13that's built in somehow?
0:44:15Well, my thinking was, because I mean, there's been lots of reports that Apple
0:44:19are developing their own GPUs, right?
0:44:21For these more powerful machines.
0:44:23So like the iMacs and potentially the Mac Pros, that it would be Apple made
0:44:28GPUs. And one of the ways that you make this smaller is you don't need all of
0:44:33the huge hardware for GPUs anymore.
0:44:34But I don't think that the GPUs will be all integrated.
0:44:37Like I could imagine much smaller Apple built modules for GPU,
0:44:43upgrades. It could be that they're all one slot tall, right, where the
0:44:50MPX modules are tall. Or they lean on eGPUs as well, as a
0:44:56potential future option for this. I mean maybe. I think if you're gonna build a
0:45:00tower, like what's the point of an eGPU? That's not much of a tower, is it?
0:45:04No, it's not. And so far, you know, we should comment so far that this is what
0:45:12the Apple Silicon machines look like. They don't support eGPU, it's all system
0:45:16on a chip. That doesn't mean that will always be true, but it's true right now.
0:45:20It's like we're in this weird middle state right now. Also in this middle
0:45:25state we have the issue of, well, if you want a really different Apple Silicon
0:45:31machine, like the options are very limited and how you can customize what
0:45:36it is. Like we're at the very beginning of this. Seeing how it's gonna flesh out
0:45:40we just don't know.
0:45:42But knowing the size of the potential future Mac Pro
0:45:45may help us understand that,
0:45:47yeah, maybe the GP won't be upgradable
0:45:50or it can be way smaller 'cause it can run cooler.
0:45:53I mean, the MPX modules are so tall
0:45:56because it's all heat sink and the fans of the case cool it.
0:46:00But if Apple can make something that runs cooler,
0:46:03maybe they don't need that.
0:46:04There's also in this state of,
0:46:07we don't really know what's gonna happen in the future.
0:46:09currently there's no support for any non-Apple GPUs
0:46:14in the Apple Silicon version of Big Sur.
0:46:17Not just no eGPUs on Apple Silicon Macs,
0:46:21no third-party GPUs whatsoever.
0:46:24And so if they were to open this up to AMD
0:46:27to build graphic cards for,
0:46:29that would need to be addressed too.
0:46:31So it's kind of hard to really estimate
0:46:33what's gonna happen,
0:46:34but clearly it would ship, I think, with fewer slots.
0:46:39And Apple knows how many slots most people are using,
0:46:42I would assume.
0:46:43I would assume they collect that data.
0:46:44And so maybe they say, oh gosh,
0:46:4695% of 2019 Mac Pro owners,
0:46:50the only thing they've put in it is a GPU.
0:46:52You know, maybe I'm unusual that I have a GPU
0:46:55and an afterburner card and a PCI card in it
0:46:58with solid state drives on it.
0:47:00Maybe I'm the odd one out, I don't know.
0:47:03I mean, very curious.
0:47:04I have questions for people that bought that machine
0:47:06and haven't put anything in it.
0:47:08Mm-hmm. What are you doing?
0:47:10Like, I don't know why you bought it.
0:47:13Like, even if you buy it and just, like, put stuff in it because it's fun to put stuff in it, you know?
0:47:19Like, you don't have to put all those drives inside, but you want to put them inside,
0:47:23because it's fun to put them inside, and you have this big computer. Why not put them inside, right?
0:47:26Like, you could just as easily put them on the outside. But why would you? You've got this huge case.
0:47:31But I do wonder if like, if Apple are gonna build
0:47:36every part of it, which they might, right?
0:47:40Like it's all stuff they make,
0:47:43maybe they can make it more efficient and smaller.
0:47:45Maybe it doesn't need to be so big
0:47:46because it doesn't need the airflow, right?
0:47:48- I mean, I mean, maybe if you look at the--
0:47:49- Maybe that's one of the reasons everything's so big.
0:47:51- Well, if you look at the fans,
0:47:54there's three fans on the front.
0:47:55The top one goes through the CPU
0:47:58and that space where the hard drives go,
0:48:00if you put that metal bracket in it.
0:48:02The bottom two cool anything you put in the PCI slots.
0:48:06And then you have a blower on the other side
0:48:08that cools the RAM.
0:48:09I think for it to be a Mac Pro,
0:48:12for them to use that name and people not riot
0:48:15outside of Apple Park, the RAM has to be upgradable,
0:48:19the storage needs to be expandable,
0:48:22and you need some slots.
0:48:23Even if you can only buy GPUs from Apple,
0:48:27even if it's not the GPU,
0:48:28People need input Apple cards.
0:48:31It's all the stuff we talked about in 2013
0:48:33that that Mac Pro failed to do.
0:48:34Lots of professionals need various hardware cards
0:48:37to put inside the machine.
0:48:39So I don't know, it's really interesting.
0:48:42And it would be interesting for Apple to ship something
0:48:45that you could put on your desk,
0:48:46that you could hide behind your Pro Display or whatever,
0:48:49and it'd be quiet and all that stuff.
0:48:51And the current Mac Pro is silent most of the time,
0:48:54but it is enormous.
0:48:55- And it's like, look, it's worth noting,
0:48:57like mini ITX or micro ITX boards, like can PCs exist?
0:49:01Oh yeah.
0:49:01Like small form factor PCs that you can put massive graphics cards in,
0:49:06right? Like this isn't like a, uh, there,
0:49:10there are no computers of these smaller sizes.
0:49:13And so like that's the kind of size we could be going for here,
0:49:16which would be about half the size of the Mac Pro.
0:49:19Cause the Mac Pro is ginormous, right? Like in PC standards,
0:49:23It's very big and it is.
0:49:26PC cases run the size gamut now.
0:49:29And so they could still build something that is really expandable and really
0:49:34small. Like it's very much possible to do that.
0:49:38We're just going to see,
0:49:40I have a lot of faith in this because I do not think that the same company
0:49:45that made the Mac Pro would make a new Pro Mac that didn't have
0:49:50sufficient expandability to it.
0:49:52even if you can only buy the expandability from Apple,
0:49:56because they're gonna make everything
0:49:57really specific and custom,
0:49:59I still believe that there will be expandability,
0:50:01sufficient expandability to this machine.
0:50:03Otherwise, what was the point?
0:50:06- Yeah. - Right?
0:50:07- Yeah. - What was the point
0:50:07in spending all this money and time
0:50:10in building the Mac Pro,
0:50:11when the iMac Pro would have done the job for most people,
0:50:15and over time everyone would have just given up,
0:50:17like they would have just stopped caring, right?
0:50:19Like, so the iMac Pro was the plan.
0:50:22They could have chose to stick with that plan if they wanted to.
0:50:26And they wouldn't create the Mac Pro and have it be a one and done.
0:50:31Like they, they never would have done that.
0:50:34They would have just stuck with the iMac Pro and they would have just moved
0:50:37forward into the all iMac future. Right?
0:50:39Like it would be absolutely bananas for them to have spent all that time making
0:50:46all of the infrastructure necessary to make a computer that can do what the Mac Pro can
0:50:50do and then just abandon it. I reckon they're going to have two. That's what I think they're
0:50:54going to have. I think they'll have a smaller one and a bigger one. Yeah, that's where I
0:50:58if I could put my finger on it. That's where I think they're going to go. And the bigger
0:51:01one would have more slots and be somehow more capable you think? Yeah, I think it would
0:51:06be honestly I think that the small Mac Pro would probably sit capability wise kind of
0:51:12around where we think of the iMac Pro now. And then they have the Mac Pro sitting where
0:51:18the Mac Pro sits because there is a big price gap. Right. And I think they will plug that
0:51:24price gap. They'll have iMacs and the iMacs can be super powerful. They'll also have this
0:51:28Mac Pro Mini, whatever they'll call it. And then they'll have the Mac Pro as well. And
0:51:34then that will be that because as well, the other rumors they're making a monitor. So,
0:51:38know that you don't need to buy the Pro Display XDR to have an Apple monitor.
0:51:43So I reckon that that I still reckon I'll have both.
0:51:47I don't think that the small one will replace the big one because I also can't imagine them
0:51:52introducing the small one and saying this is the new one.
0:51:55Oh, and by the way, we've revved the old one.
0:51:58Yeah.
0:51:59It just seems really weird to me.
0:52:00Yeah.
0:52:01I mean, if I had to put money on it today, I would say there's not an Intel update coming
0:52:07and that these are either two concepts that are fighting it out or there will be a Mac Pro and
0:52:13then something smaller in between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro. You know the X Mac which people wanted
0:52:19for 20 years maybe it's finally going to happen. So the other thing was that new display. Federico,
0:52:26I was just wondering from your perspective like because I know that you would I could imagine that
0:52:32of everything you would be most likely in the market for the display right like I know that
0:52:37they announced MacBook Pro potentials and I know that you'd spoken about Sylvia wanting
0:52:42a new MacBook Pro and that kind of feels like would be the logical next step but I was wondering
0:52:47specifically about the display. Do you have any kind of like a feature list for this?
0:52:54Well if they can make it nicer than the ultra fine that I have which is this ugly piece
0:52:59of plastic that would be a good start. I guess I wouldn't I would love to have like a beautiful
0:53:06display like thin bezels, not made of black plastic, something more elegant, more tasteful
0:53:14than what I have. And in terms of features and specs, as long as it works with both,
0:53:20whatever it's called, Thunderbolt and USB-C for the iPad Pro, like that, you know, to
0:53:26have the same experience that I have with the Ultrafine, that would be cool.
0:53:31Well I guess the expectation is that it would be Thunderbolt 4 which does unify the specs, right?
0:53:37Right.
0:53:37That would be my expectation because that's what's in the M1 Max so...
0:53:42Right.
0:53:42You would assume that that's what the monitor would be too.
0:53:45But the iPad Pro doesn't have Thunderbolt 4.
0:53:48No but it's USB-C. The point is that Thunderbolt 4, my understanding is Thunderbolt 4
0:53:54unifies them both so it works the same, I believe.
0:53:59I think that's right. That is a very confusing topic.
0:54:03Right. Does anyone max not have Thunderbolt 4? What has Thunderbolt 4?
0:54:06Something has Thunderbolt 4.
0:54:08They have... So Apple calls it Thunderbolt 3 USB 4.
0:54:11USB 4, sorry. USB 4. USB 4. I got it mixed around. So USB 4 is both Thunderbolt and USB C.
0:54:21It's like all of it in one.
0:54:22Yes.
0:54:23I believe that's the case.
0:54:25I believe that is true.
0:54:26So there'll probably be USB 4 and then it can be all of it. That would be my expectation.
0:54:31It'd just be the same kind of... It's very confusing.
0:54:34In any case, that, whatever the name of the spec is...
0:54:39Whatever that is.
0:54:41And I wouldn't mind... This is something that I've started seeing in a bunch of like third-party
0:54:46displays and accessories. I would love to have a wireless charging station in the foot of the display.
0:54:54Ooh, yeah.
0:54:56Like, that feels like a useless waste of space, right?
0:54:59Right now I'm just leaving stuff there in the base of the ultra-fine display that I have.
0:55:06Like, my Walkman and my Sony earbuds are just there, because why not?
0:55:12Make it useful. Make that part useful. Or make it smaller.
0:55:16So, either it's smaller somehow, but I mean, if you've got to support a display,
0:55:20you still gotta have a base acting as support.
0:55:25So if it has to exist, at least give it some purpose,
0:55:29give it some utility, you know?
0:55:31- Maybe that's how they make you pay for a stand.
0:55:34Like the regular stand is just normal.
0:55:38- Look, they can call it the smart stand for all I care.
0:55:41And I'm gonna pay for it.
0:55:42- You pay a little bit and it's got a MagSafe.
0:55:45- Yeah, MagSafe, you know, I can throw my AirPods,
0:55:47my phone, whatever.
0:55:49Just give it some purpose in terms of other Apple devices.
0:55:53That would be kind of cool.
0:55:55Anything else?
0:55:56- I hope so.
0:55:57Go on, sorry.
0:55:58- No, I was gonna mention the matte display option,
0:56:01but that feels like a Pro Display XDR thing with the nano.
0:56:06- They put it on the iMac.
0:56:07- Well then maybe there's hope.
0:56:09- I reckon they would have an option.
0:56:12Well, here's a question.
0:56:13I hadn't thought about this.
0:56:14What about on the MacBook Pro?
0:56:16- I mean, I think the matte display could come.
0:56:18It's what a $500 option on the iMac?
0:56:21It's a thousand on the XDR.
0:56:23I guess the question is,
0:56:25is the MacBook Pro more likely to need cleaning
0:56:29or be more prone to damage?
0:56:31'Cause there's all that stuff about you gotta clean
0:56:33the matte display in a very particular way.
0:56:36And with a desktop that's less likely to get stuff on it,
0:56:40I mean, like mine's,
0:56:41like I gotta clean mine all the time
0:56:42'cause stuff just magically appears on it.
0:56:45But on a notebook, like what happens
0:56:47you get a little piece of debris and it gets shut between the palm rest and the screen,
0:56:51does it break it, does it cause problems?
0:56:54I would imagine that durability is the primary concern.
0:56:57Right.
0:56:58I can imagine them putting it on the monitor though.
0:57:00I can imagine it being an option for any monitor that they make just because they put it on
0:57:06the iMac because you will naturally assume that now they've put it on the most recent
0:57:10iMac that the next iMacs will get it.
0:57:13And you will also assume that the iMac screen and the whatever display they make is the
0:57:20same screen panel?
0:57:24So in theory they should be able to do it, right?
0:57:29If you kind of follow the logic through it seems like it would be possible.
0:57:33Yeah I would get that.
0:57:34I would pay for that.
0:57:35display support for Mac and iPad at the same time, a stand that has some utility to it
0:57:45other than just wasting space on my desk. That would be kind of cool.
0:57:49I would like the adjustability and being able to turn it on its side and stuff.
0:57:53Oh, well that's kind of default, right? I mean, yes.
0:57:57These days, yeah.
0:57:58But we should mention it. Yeah, we shouldn't take it for granted. Yes,
0:58:02full adjustability.
0:58:03Because Apple's never done that. Right, right, yes. That's a good point.
0:58:09Except for what, the G4? I guess the Amac G4? Could you make it portrait?
0:58:14No. What? No? Just moved around? Okay. I'm really
0:58:18excited about Maxis here. Well, Sylvia's got in a MacBook Pro, we already
0:58:24decided. She's gonna sell her 2017 MacBook Pro and as soon as the 14-inch Pro comes out
0:58:32out, she's gonna get that. So she's gonna upgrade. I mentioned to her the reports from
0:58:41Gherman and she was really happy to hear about the Touch Bar going away and keys coming back.
0:58:49The Touch Bar will be the least missed product in Apple's history, I think. Well, maybe not
0:58:55the most, but up there with some... Can we think of other... Steven, you're the man for
0:59:01is things that Apple got rid of that people are not missing at all.
0:59:06Like a feature.
0:59:07Like a feature.
0:59:08Oh man.
0:59:09Like something.
0:59:10I just gave you an idea for an article.
0:59:11You're welcome.
0:59:12Thank you.
0:59:13Yeah.
0:59:14Yeah.
0:59:15But this has got to be up there with that.
0:59:17I don't know, like the Apple Pencil charging with lightning, for example.
0:59:21You know, that kind of stuff.
0:59:22Right.
0:59:23I mean, the thing is, most of the time that takes years, right?
0:59:25It's like, oh, now we know SCSI was ridiculous because you needed these cables and terminators
0:59:29and stuff.
0:59:30In 1999 when it was going away people were mad. So for things that like fall out of favor quickly
0:59:36That's got to be a short list
0:59:38Like is there any other feature that has the same level of criticism as the touch bar? That's interesting
0:59:44One last thing before we move on. This is circling all the way back around to a mag safe stand
0:59:50because
0:59:52What MKBHD had a video about these and he mentioned something that I'd never hadn't thought about like
0:59:59MagSafe on the iPhone has none of the safe that MagSafe had on the laptops.
1:00:06Like if you kick that cable your phone is going with the charger.
1:00:11Right? It is not safe at all. It's more dangerous for your phone because now it's got a weight on the back of it as it hurtles down towards the ground.
1:00:21Right.
1:00:22There's no safety with the MagSafe.
1:00:26It's more dangerous than it ever was before.
1:00:28- The bag is somewhat safe. - There's no safety! It adds no safety. None of it. It doesn't exist anymore. It's more dangerous now.
1:00:38- That's a good point. Emma in the Discord mentions, rightfully so, the butterfly keyboard.
1:00:46- Oh yeah. That is another good one. - They are connected though, right?
1:00:52Yeah, they're on the same machine. They're on the same surface of the same machine.
1:00:58That MacBook Pro redesign really did not age well.
1:01:03As we turn into old men, 10, 15 years from now, and connected like 1200, we will laugh
1:01:11about that MacBook. Oh, do you remember that MacBook that had all those bad features and
1:01:15none of them remained?
1:01:16Yeah. They're just gonna undo all of it.
1:01:20about it. When you think about it, it's really rough. Yeah. It's bad. So, yeah, Mark Gurman
1:01:26is just having quite the year. The Mac's having quite the year. Yeah, no, nothing about the
1:01:32iPad. We're going to talk about another report about the iPhone. He very briefly mentions
1:01:38it in the iPhone report. This episode of Connected is brought to you by ExpressVPN. So how did
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1:03:56So probably the report that had the least detail in it was one about the iPhone.
1:04:03So I think this was...
1:04:05Fold-a-phones!
1:04:06Three or four Mark Gorman reports and this was the last one of them.
1:04:10So basically saying that Apple is testing foldable displays for an upcoming device.
1:04:15They've made basic prototypes but have no plans finalised.
1:04:19This makes sense.
1:04:21Of course they're testing it, why wouldn't they?
1:04:23Right?
1:04:24I've said it before, it might not pan out, but this is the next form factor that we can
1:04:30conceive of.
1:04:32We have phones and we have tablets.
1:04:34Imagine if we could get something that was in between.
1:04:37So I wanted to gauge with the two of you what your ideal foldable format would be from Apple.
1:04:46Because there are a couple of ways these devices can go.
1:04:52You can have a phone that becomes a tablet, like the Galaxy Z Fold.
1:04:57You have a small phone, open it up, it's a tablet.
1:05:00Or you could have a tablet which gets bigger.
1:05:04You could start off with a 10 inch iPad and then make it a 12 inch iPad.
1:05:09There's this whole thing, LG just showed off this rollable concept.
1:05:15Which is, I don't know about this, this seems like a bad idea.
1:05:19it's basically you have the device and then the device gets bigger like the
1:05:24screen is kind of like expands it's very peculiar or the other one which is
1:05:30arguably I think the most successful form factor so far is a flip phone so
1:05:35you have a small phone which becomes a bigger phone so if you had to choose
1:05:40even if you want to choose where would you be sitting right now it's like a
1:05:45a cool Apple device for you?
1:05:47What is like the ideal?
1:05:49Like let's not think about reliability.
1:05:52Let's assume that all of that is solved.
1:05:53Where could you imagine some kind of adapting screen size
1:05:58fitting in your life best?
1:06:00- At the moment I'm leaning toward foldable tablet,
1:06:03just because I know myself and I know that I would love
1:06:07to have something small for reading and watching video
1:06:11that can get bigger when I want to get work done.
1:06:16So instead of having two tablets,
1:06:21like an iPad Mini and an iPad Pro,
1:06:23I could have one tablet that can solve both,
1:06:27that can work in both scenarios, I guess.
1:06:30So when I want to have something portable and compact,
1:06:32but also something bigger for multitasking
1:06:34and that kind of stuff.
1:06:36I don't see personally at the moment,
1:06:38the appeal of a flip phone,
1:06:40Just because a phone being a device that I take out of my pocket and that I unlock so
1:06:46many times a day, I don't want to have the friction of unfolding it every single time.
1:06:50And I don't think that I would like to have a small display if I do not unfold it.
1:06:56I just like to have a big enough display that I take out of my pocket and it's ready to
1:07:01use.
1:07:02So, the flip phone I don't care about.
1:07:05foldable tablet I'm really intrigued because right now I have two iPads each
1:07:11serving a different function and I could have one in fact the display was
1:07:17adjustable. For me then I think I agree with Federico but for a phone I think I
1:07:24prefer a phone that I can do everything on on a phone size screen and then opens
1:07:31into like an iPad mini for media experiences or a bigger keyboard or better multitasking.
1:07:38While I like the idea and I'm nostalgic for the flip phone I once had, to Federico's point,
1:07:45you have to open it for almost everything.
1:07:49And I don't necessarily want that interaction every time I need to see the big screen.
1:07:57Whereas if Apple had an iPhone that's iPhone size and then opened up into a small tablet,
1:08:03that extra work to open the phone is optional when I want that experience and it's not interfering
1:08:10with the experience of everyday use.
1:08:13So I'll say with technology as it is today, the flip phone is the most compelling to use
1:08:20like from my own use cases because the idea of a phone that becomes a tablet is I think
1:08:27the most compelling on a daily basis, right? Wouldn't it be great to have one device that
1:08:33is both your phone and a tablet? But technology right now just doesn't do this elegantly enough.
1:08:39They're just thick and big. If they can work that out, which I think is possible, I think
1:08:44that this could be a real winner. And I could imagine this being the area that Apple would
1:08:50attack. Like I can imagine that this is what they're attacking like a you know
1:08:55plus sized phone that becomes an iPad mini. That kind of seems like the way to
1:09:01go but it's this is it's complicated right now because with the current with
1:09:06technology where it is right now it's two devices in one it's not one device
1:09:11that gets bigger right you have the phone on the outside and then you open
1:09:15the device and you've got the tablet because you can't fold glass right now
1:09:21like it's you can't do it and it still be protected like it still will be
1:09:25protected so I think this is why Apple is maybe just prototyping like they just
1:09:31in early stages because the technology's got a long way to go but I think luckily
1:09:36for the industry Samsung don't care and they're gonna keep making their devices
1:09:41because that's what's needed I think like for this technology to be pushed
1:09:47forward there has to be companies like Samsung and LG to a point who are
1:09:51willing to make devices in public that they'll charge you a lot of money for
1:09:57that are not finished it's an important part of technology like Samsung did it
1:10:01with the Note right and then the Note made phone the entire industry's phones
1:10:06bigger but if Samsung weren't doing it no one would have done it because well
1:10:11for one Samsung make the displays that a lot of companies use so it's kind of
1:10:16important that someone's trying it but I just wanted to see where you guys were
1:10:20I can also agree with Federico that somebody who owns two iPads I would love
1:10:26just to have one and it's small for like social media stuff big for what I'm
1:10:31getting work done on it. I think that would be really nice. But I believe this is the
1:10:37future, but this future is still quite a way away, I think, especially for Apple. I think
1:10:43we're multiple years, multiple years away from some kind of Apple folding device. But
1:10:49Mark Gurman does also talk about the 2021 iPhones. It's going to be, it seems very much
1:10:55an S year in scope. I would just say because Steven's put a note, I don't think that that
1:11:01means necessarily S year in name I just don't think it means that because one of the things
1:11:08that they're talking about, well look my friend you're not having a great year so far and
1:11:12so you know I guess you could take them where you get them. There is apparently talk of
1:11:18an in-screen fingerprint reader I think that that is a big enough feature on its own to
1:11:23bump it up a year I do like people will go wild for that especially if they do that because
1:11:30The touch ID button, right, feels very much like a compromise, right?
1:11:38You bring touch ID back into a button, put it on the side of the phone.
1:11:43People will be happy, but it's very much going to feel like
1:11:48face ID didn't work for you, did it?
1:11:52If they put it like touch ID into the display, if they do it right,
1:11:59right? It's gonna be cool. I know it's a feature that exists on every single Android phone
1:12:09but this is just one of those things that Apple will talk about how magical it is, right?
1:12:14And how they've done something that nobody else has ever done, right? Because this is
1:12:19what they do or what they say sometimes but it will at least feel like the technology
1:12:26moved on than if they just put Touch ID back in a button.
1:12:31So I can see them doing this.
1:12:33I think this is probably what they'll do.
1:12:35They'll make some kind of in-screen fingerprint reader and it'll be cool.
1:12:41Mark also talks about AirTags still being planned for this year.
1:12:44Still.
1:12:45Okay.
1:12:46With lots of accessories like a little leather pouch, which I guess why not?
1:12:51Samsung just announced theirs.
1:12:53I think they're called Galaxy tags or something.
1:12:56Yeah.
1:12:57Like their product is going to be available and out there and it's, they're going to have
1:13:01two versions of them and one of them is going to have ultra wide band in it and all that
1:13:05kind of stuff.
1:13:06And they have one that's just Bluetooth.
1:13:08And then also we were talking about the iPad Pro.
1:13:10Mark Gurman confirms plans for a mini LED iPad Pro with a much faster processor and
1:13:16also the thinner entry level iPad.
1:13:19Not a lot of detail about that because there's things we don't know, right?
1:13:22Like what is the mini LED iPad?
1:13:25Is it a 12.9?
1:13:26Is it both of them?
1:13:27Is it a third option?
1:13:29Like the 12.9 splits into two.
1:13:32There's also no talk of an iPad mini in here.
1:13:36So not so much detail about the iPad, which is interesting because of all of the things
1:13:42we've spoken about today, that's probably the first product for this year.
1:13:48Yeah, I think so.
1:13:50the entry-level iMac and iPad Pros and the iPad is probably going to be the first products this year.
1:13:57MacBook Pros likely mid-year and then the Mac Pro, I don't know when. So that's the reports.
1:14:04Who knows? That's why it's so exciting. I'm having a lot of fun talking about this stuff.
1:14:12It definitely doesn't seem like 2021 is going to be a calmer year for product releases.
1:14:18No, it's going to be busy.
1:14:20Man, Mark Gurman, he's a busy guy.
1:14:22I mean, Friday, it was like every, I felt like every 30 minutes or something,
1:14:27there was some new report.
1:14:29Yeah, I saw someone wrote in to upgrade and gave like a good theory on that
1:14:34because Ming-Chi Kuo had a report that went out before about the laptops.
1:14:40And it came out on Friday and it basically spoke about the 14 and 16 inch laptops.
1:14:48So maybe like Mark was sitting on all this stuff and he was like, well better get it out now
1:14:52Like maybe that wasn't the plan to release four articles in one day or whatever
1:14:56uh
1:14:58So yeah, I maybe that's why I don't know
1:15:01I think that's it
1:15:04Okay, if you want to find links to stuff we spoke about head on over to the website relay.fm/connected/329
1:15:14While you're there, there's a bunch of stuff you can do.
1:15:16You can send us an email with feedback or follow up.
1:15:19You can become a member and have access to Connected Pro,
1:15:23which is a weekly version of the show.
1:15:25Each and every week we do it.
1:15:26No ads and extra content.
1:15:29It's a whole lot of fun.
1:15:31This week we spoke about Footbones, Tidal, and the inauguration.
1:15:37It was a good time on the pre-show this week.
1:15:39You can find us all online.
1:15:41you can find Myke on Twitter as @IMYKE and Myke is the host of a bunch of
1:15:47shows here on Relay FM. Myke, anything you want to talk about? I'm gonna be
1:15:53streaming again on Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern at Myke.Live if you want to
1:15:58come and hang out. Cool. You can find Federico online as well. He is @Vittici on
1:16:03Twitter V I T I C C I and he is the editor-in-chief of MaxStories.net.
1:16:10Federico, I have a quick question for you this week.
1:16:12- Sure. - Just a quick one.
1:16:14- Quick one, okay.
1:16:15- What is your least favorite household chore?
1:16:17- Oh.
1:16:19I guess, well,
1:16:25I wanna say cleaning outside.
1:16:31Just because, I don't know, especially in the winter
1:16:35when it's cold, I really dislike it.
1:16:39And I also dislike it in the summer because it's too hot.
1:16:41So you have no control over the temperature outside.
1:16:45So cleaning outside, this really sucks in general.
1:16:49So yeah, that one, just no particular chore,
1:16:53just having to clean outside in cold or hot weather,
1:16:57I don't like it.
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1:17:13And until next week guys, say goodbye.
1:17:15Arrivederci.
1:17:16Cheerio.