The Accidental Tech Podcast

188: $850 Fidget Cube

 

  all right fine you just go ahead keep [TS]

  being smug smug take no pleasure in [TS]

  being right all the time using oh haha [TS]

  please tell me you could hear my eyes [TS]

  rolling we got a few pieces of feedback [TS]

  about some phrasing yeah this moment [TS]

  we're talking about boys the topic we [TS]

  were talking about [TS]

  we'll get to later in the fall but in [TS]

  fact that yes the touch thing anyway and [TS]

  I kept referring to was trying to refer [TS]

  to the region on the map that in [TS]

  visualizing my head that includes not [TS]

  just China didn't we say China [TS]

  businesslike yeah it's big it takes a [TS]

  lot of room in that region but not the [TS]

  only country there [TS]

  it also encompasses all the other [TS]

  countries that are sort of around china [TS]

  and I kept saying the Far East which is [TS]

  apparently a very Eurocentric and not [TS]

  favored and slightly insulting term [TS]

  because it's just you know deciding like [TS]

  east of what he stood like where people [TS]

  who get the name things are or whatever [TS]

  so anyway [TS]

  Far East will be excised from my [TS]

  vocabulary to the best of my abilities [TS]

  and we'll go with many suggestions [TS]

  people at East Asia which I mean I guess [TS]

  ages the landmass and it's not the [TS]

  eastern part of it you can just say Asia [TS]

  but i'm going to try not to say Far East [TS]

  and if I slip up just tell me again live [TS]

  in real-time and Mark awaited have not [TS]

  correct with not on the air but there [TS]

  you go [TS]

  fair enough we need to talk about our [TS]

  friendly wager there's some confusion in [TS]

  the ranks and i am also confused [TS]

  well is it is not time for any money [TS]

  change hands will start by saying that [TS]

  yes I I would concur [TS]

  Luke Brewster call this for attention [TS]

  earlier today in the 10.1 beta which was [TS]

  released as we record just a few hours [TS]

  ago in accessibility in the reducing [TS]

  motion section there is now [TS]

  autoplay message effects which to John's [TS]

  credit at first glance appears to be a [TS]

  sub setting which I told him would never [TS]

  happen [TS]

  and with regard to messages about that [TS]

  was so long ago that was like that was [TS]

  practically a week ago you don't have to [TS]

  be so smug John although I would be if I [TS]

  were you [TS]

  I'm just saying I get myself until like [TS]

  iOS 11 that's called adding padding god [TS]

  autoplay message effects is its own [TS]

  setting however some have said and [TS]

  I don't have a link candy but we'll put [TS]

  in the shows some of said that it's not [TS]

  quite so simple and that it doesn't [TS]

  appear to give you any sort of lasers it [TS]

  just messes with some of the simple ones [TS]

  like whisper maybe I'd I haven't tried [TS]

  this amount on the data so so so i don't [TS]

  i don't have this installed and I do it [TS]

  for reports from people who have [TS]

  installed the marker will report as well [TS]

  the reports I've heard so far is that it [TS]

  does nothing but the setting appears in [TS]

  a setting only appears when your term [TS]

  reduce motion on so for those emotions [TS]

  off you need to see this setting only [TS]

  one of these motions on do you get the [TS]

  second setting and then no matter what [TS]

  you put that second setting at it [TS]

  appears to do nothing [TS]

  do you have a experiments that a counter [TS]

  contradict this Marco that has been my [TS]

  experience exactly where I i just [TS]

  installed it you know that an hour ago [TS]

  just trying to get it done before the [TS]

  show I could try it out and we didn't [TS]

  try all the effects but i did try the [TS]

  fullscreen lasers and stuff and they [TS]

  they will say set with lasers but they [TS]

  don't allow you to send them like you [TS]

  can't 3d push the the up arrow thing it [TS]

  doesn't do anything which i believe is [TS]

  the same as whenever you have any reduce [TS]

  motion turned on right and yes and and i [TS]

  had to send me lasers and as far as you [TS]

  know it still says sent with lasers but [TS]

  it does not do any of the animation as [TS]

  far as I could tell it really appears to [TS]

  do nothing so things like not not hooked [TS]

  up in interface builder as they say [TS]

  basically somebody forgot to like it's [TS]

  definitely out for the release like they [TS]

  were working on it and didn't finish it [TS]

  in time and somebody forgot to come out [TS]

  basically [TS]

  so anyway then mrs. this is not one of [TS]

  the public-facing babies by the way I [TS]

  think if you are i'm not sure but if [TS]

  you're on the public beta would you get [TS]

  this one now there is no public beta yet [TS]

  for this version I I think pans arena [TS]

  said it was gonna come out on friday but [TS]

  i don't know i don't know that that's [TS]

  for sure [TS]

  I wonder if that will be different but [TS]

  anyway um mode that's motion on the [TS]

  front of the one-dollar wager from the [TS]

  last episode but no no decision yet [TS]

  because obviously this is not a shipping [TS]

  version that brings it doesn't really [TS]

  matter what's in it and be what's in it [TS]

  is a switch that does nothing and so on [TS]

  the topic on this broader topic we got a [TS]

  lot of feedback about it as you would [TS]

  imagine the law and the tail under the [TS]

  last show I was not telling the feedback [TS]

  but I'm pi wasn't either but I mean [TS]

  impression wise think we'll all agree [TS]

  that there were most of the feedback we [TS]

  heard was from people who agreed with me [TS]

  that doesn't mean I'm not so fast so [TS]

  selecting that but what you don't you [TS]

  agree that i'm said most like its modern [TS]

  context that sounds I agree with I would [TS]

  agree with you with caveats [TS]

  I mean certainly more than fifty percent [TS]

  of the words agreed with you i agree [TS]

  with you by and large I will say that [TS]

  early on for the first couple of days it [TS]

  seemed like it was pretty darn close [TS]

  you were probably in the lead but it was [TS]

  closed and then after that initial wave [TS]

  of people who listen in the first like [TS]

  48 hours then you just ran away with it [TS]

  and as also not seeing you're also not [TS]

  seeing the feedback was sent directly to [TS]

  me [TS]

  well why would people tell you that [TS]

  you're right that's like a trump claim [TS]

  like what I'm hearing from lots of [TS]

  people [TS]

  yeah email just me because my email [TS]

  addresses on the web or they had [TS]

  mentioned just mean don't have mentioned [TS]

  the show and I got a lot of that I also [TS]

  don't see the people who were just [TS]

  mentioning you or emailing you so there [TS]

  is that still that dark matter but uh I [TS]

  the ratios that some people who emailed [TS]

  just me [TS]

  seems about the same as the public one [TS]

  that you know anyway this is not is not [TS]

  a is not a democracy the only the only [TS]

  role i think that the feedback plays [TS]

  aside from you know curiosity and [TS]

  audience participation is do is the only [TS]

  data points we have to measure the idea [TS]

  that there could perhaps for example be [TS]

  people out there who use reduce motion [TS]

  for a reason that Casey decides is [TS]

  legitimate and also want to send is [TS]

  right we had several people like that [TS]

  right in to say I'm that person I need [TS]

  to reduce motion for what I believe is a [TS]

  legitimate reason but i want to send [TS]

  lasers and the question might have been [TS]

  maybe there's nobody like that or maybe [TS]

  you know whatever so people chimed in [TS]

  with that opinion to at least give a few [TS]

  data points of those people out there [TS]

  again it doesn't mean anything about [TS]

  whether Apple should have another option [TS]

  and by the way i suggest that they have [TS]

  this option two messages because [TS]

  messages has settings to or if it [TS]

  doesn't it can have them write because [TS]

  you try to add the settings [TS]

  inaccessibility software you need [TS]

  to add a number of like a little options [TS]

  for every single application that wants [TS]

  that we like this place for those [TS]

  settings and send messages now I feel [TS]

  like Apple gets kind of a pass if [TS]

  they're gonna put it in the you know [TS]

  general section of the accessibility [TS]

  section because messages like well that [TS]

  really a nap as a part of the OS or [TS]

  whatever but this is not a scalable [TS]

  solution to you I and my original [TS]

  suggestion was the setting of messages [TS]

  because if you make an application and [TS]

  it has behaviour or whatever that you [TS]

  think you should hide it reduce motion [TS]

  is on but some of them are borderline [TS]

  make the default to hide them because [TS]

  that's a safe default but if you feel [TS]

  like you're taking away too much or that [TS]

  there may be a substantial portion of [TS]

  your audience that wants to modify the [TS]

  behavior that's the perfect opportunity [TS]

  to add setting to your settings to your [TS]

  settings for your application that might [TS]

  reduce motion i also want to XYZ be able [TS]

  to use the rocket launcher or whatever [TS]

  so we'll see how this turns out [TS]

  yeah it was interesting reading the [TS]

  feedback because there were a couple [TS]

  people that seem like they genuine had [TS]

  an accessibility issue and some of them [TS]

  wait in my favorite summon yours [TS]

  the thing that struck me so funny was so [TS]

  many people who were just passionately [TS]

  opposed to the zoom animation oftentimes [TS]

  with no element associated they just [TS]

  freaking hate it and then somehow think [TS]

  that it's okay for that to be off but [TS]

  balloons or lasers to be on like they're [TS]

  entitled to have the exact perfect study [TS]

  automatic liability because there's the [TS]

  problem with this this whole angle which [TS]

  no one really said in the feedback and [TS]

  was hoping someone bring it up but [TS]

  didn't that the problem with with your [TS]

  stance is that it hinges on someone you [TS]

  perhaps in this case being the decider [TS]

  about what is it isn't a quote-unquote [TS]

  legitimate use of accessibility feature [TS]

  once like something you think a [TS]

  clear-cut you're like all this [TS]

  legitimate military you see the you need [TS]

  you don't need but once you have [TS]

  anointed yourself the official authority [TS]

  on what is it isn't what you consider to [TS]

  be a air quotes legitimate accessibility [TS]

  issue you are bringing you your bidding [TS]

  people and it's like there's a gray area [TS]

  in the middle meet you can you can maybe [TS]

  we can all agree on end points but [TS]

  there's a gray area right so I think [TS]

  that's just not a tenable standpoint I [TS]

  obviously think that who cares with that [TS]

  spectrum is that people want to use the [TS]

  feature they want to use the feature and [TS]

  totally removing a major features of iOS [TS]

  10 is a bad idea but I right listen that [TS]

  range you can hear all the stuff again [TS]

  the few points that we did that is [TS]

  really hammer on that much but a lot of [TS]

  people said the feedback is a lot of [TS]

  people are very mad that they can't send [TS]

  the effects right if you have been some [TS]

  fine reduce motion is on for you but you [TS]

  can send them to your friends like its [TS]

  features totally gone I guess people are [TS]

  clear about this [TS]

  you can't send somebody lasers forget [TS]

  about whether you can see them like so [TS]

  you have reduced emotional because you [TS]

  can have a motion on your screen not [TS]

  being able to send them feels punitive [TS]

  right because there's no legit reason [TS]

  for that right and you know and whatever [TS]

  like this [TS]

  yep that's the first version of the [TS]

  operating system it was a point-to-point [TS]

  one or whatever they could change that [TS]

  but that's that's why i feel like you [TS]

  know it can't stand the other thing is [TS]

  about you can't use small text I mean [TS]

  that's not a motion thing at all so [TS]

  there are certain things that you can [TS]

  make arguments against regardless of [TS]

  this debate we're having about whether [TS]

  you need this extra setting but anyway [TS]

  that's a brief rehash of last thing with [TS]

  with well the last episode with [TS]

  hopefully less yelling but either way I [TS]

  think at this point I think at this [TS]

  point we're all just sitting back and [TS]

  waiting and I don't feel particularly [TS]

  compelled by the feedback that that the [TS]

  world is on my side or anything like [TS]

  that because like i said it's a [TS]

  self-selecting group the people who are [TS]

  going to write in are going to be the [TS]

  people who are like all worked up like I [TS]

  was right so it's not a representative [TS]

  sample of anything and i'm assuming most [TS]

  of the people listen to our show are [TS]

  nerds and nerds are the ones who like to [TS]

  have these features and so on and so [TS]

  forth so i probably agree with you Casey [TS]

  that a lot of the people really are like [TS]

  look this is you know I want settings [TS]

  for everything and so on so forth and [TS]

  understand how that's not going to work [TS]

  but in this specific case i think this [TS]

  passes muster as as a case where Apple [TS]

  will actually a switch and I'm hoping [TS]

  these little hints at a potential switch [TS]

  that might do something someday mean [TS]

  that I'm right and by the way final bid [TS]

  on this [TS]

  I did file a radar on filed an [TS]

  enhancement request because it's not a [TS]

  bug there's nothing worse than people [TS]

  file who filed bug request list is like [TS]

  severe bug or if there's not a bug [TS]

  you're asking for an additional feature [TS]

  that doesn't exist its enhancement [TS]

  request is it there's a choice part [TS]

  right there anyway I filed an [TS]

  enhancement request asking for the [TS]

  specific functionality is closed OOP so [TS]

  I didn't feel like I have done my [TS]

  official you know good platform citizen [TS]

  duty [TS]

  and I have done the thing and now I just [TS]

  wait can we get like I filed stickers [TS]

  made like the I voted for radar people [TS]

  should anything to encourage people to [TS]

  do it because obviously it's not a it's [TS]

  a thankless process most of the time is [TS]

  uh is there some way that you could send [TS]

  me that radar number so I can follow [TS]

  radar this is ignored John's ridiculous [TS]

  radar about how he wants to have his [TS]

  cake and eat it too [TS]

  you can do that to go ahead and wants to [TS]

  follow radar it'sit's you can anyone [TS]

  could follow right out of there is a [TS]

  feedback form an apple site somewhere [TS]

  but developer account see that you can [TS]

  get whatever you need whatever like free [TS]

  developer account without giving Apple [TS]

  any money or anything i think if you [TS]

  have an apple ID you can get to the [TS]

  point where you can follow rate as long [TS]

  as that soup is just right John not too [TS]

  hot not too cold not too emotionally not [TS]

  too little motion just right [TS]

  alright so a lot of people in east asia [TS]

  have written to tell us about whether or [TS]

  not the assistive touch thing versus the [TS]

  physical home button is real we get to [TS]

  recap we had said that we had heard or [TS]

  read some reports that people in east [TS]

  asia use the assistive touch feature [TS]

  even if they are fully able-bodied [TS]

  because of various different reasons but [TS]

  the most common one was not wanting to [TS]

  damage a a home button that is [TS]

  considered to be fragile whether or not [TS]

  that's actually true [TS]

  we had a lot of people write in and i [TS]

  would say the overwhelming majority of [TS]

  people that live in east asia or have [TS]

  spent significant time in east asia have [TS]

  written into say yes this is a thing and [TS]

  generally speaking it's either about [TS]

  keeping something very expensive in good [TS]

  tip top shape or because there is a [TS]

  phobia of breaking your home button in [TS]

  the same way that Americans seem to be [TS]

  convinced that force quitting apps as [TS]

  helpful as a little overwhelming [TS]

  majority of its I think we didn't get a [TS]

  single piece of feedback that that [TS]

  contradicted what we set all only buried [TS]

  with the only thing that vary with the [TS]

  percentages ok like that some people [TS]

  said like it'sit's ninety percent I see [TS]

  it all the time it's like twenty percent [TS]

  but nobody said hey those articles you [TS]

  read we're totally not represented not a [TS]

  single person so I'm I'm gonna you know [TS]

  put a confirmed stamp on this once [TS]

  for injured people who report to live [TS]

  there who send email and tweets to our [TS]

  podcast that article is it's a real [TS]

  thing yeah there were some really good [TS]

  reasons for it i mean you know that you [TS]

  mention case like a lot of a lot of [TS]

  times too because you know these devices [TS]

  these are expensive devices and [TS]

  depending on where you live it could be [TS]

  relatively more or less expensive [TS]

  compared to like you know typical life [TS]

  expenses there and so it really is a [TS]

  thing where people want to like protect [TS]

  this thing that they've heard wears out [TS]

  or that they had an iphone before and it [TS]

  did wear out and they had to like get an [TS]

  expensive service because you know not [TS]

  everyone just want an apple store where [TS]

  they are and get a get a replacement for [TS]

  free like a lot of times there's more [TS]

  involved processes lot of these places [TS]

  there are no apple stores nearby and you [TS]

  have to like mail it somewhere and that [TS]

  might be expensive and very [TS]

  time-consuming you know there's there [TS]

  were lots of good reasons why basically [TS]

  for a lot of people getting an iphone [TS]

  with a failed part serviced is a is a [TS]

  big you know ordeal or expense or both [TS]

  and so there were a number of iphones i [TS]

  would say at least the 4 and 4s and [TS]

  maybe even five where the home buttons [TS]

  did wear out for a lot of people it was [TS]

  a widespread problem and so you know [TS]

  there-there's basis for this like [TS]

  there's a very good reason why people [TS]

  have this what i thought was very [TS]

  interesting about this feedback also is [TS]

  that many people said that turning on [TS]

  assistive touch is like the routine [TS]

  thing for the phone sales people do as [TS]

  they set up your phone with you before [TS]

  you even go home with it so you're [TS]

  walking out of the cell phone store with [TS]

  it already enabled because the person [TS]

  they're either did it for you didn't [TS]

  even mention it or explain to you why [TS]

  you should always use this thing and [TS]

  then turn it on for you [TS]

  yeah i thought that was fascinating and [TS]

  for the people for the people who are [TS]

  site of those reasons by the way we had [TS]

  variations in the feedback i think we [TS]

  had some objections to the idea that it [TS]

  was about resale value that it wasn't as [TS]

  mercenary is that it's just like they [TS]

  don't want a broken things like Marco [TS]

  said they don't want a broken thing [TS]

  because it's a pain for them to get it [TS]

  fixed either it's expensive or did you [TS]

  know it's just more of a pain right so [TS]

  it wasn't like people like I'm never [TS]

  gonna sell my phone but I still do this [TS]

  it's really really coming [TS]

  to the most of these people like this is [TS]

  another example of humans being bad [TS]

  addresses risk assessment and and good [TS]

  at pattern matching gone awry a little [TS]

  bit because if you're never going to [TS]

  resell your phone and if you're never [TS]

  going to touch the home button doesn't [TS]

  matter if it's broke [TS]

  you know what I mean like logically [TS]

  speaking if you're never gonna use the [TS]

  home button and you're never gonna give [TS]

  it to anybody uses the home button then [TS]

  why you worried about wearing up home [TS]

  button because no one's ever going to [TS]

  touch the home button use it until it [TS]

  breaks and use assistive touch and the [TS]

  reason i suggest this for the most part [TS]

  is because i think having such a long [TS]

  time is a little bit of a burden that's [TS]

  my that that's what I would think about [TS]

  you because you have this thing that's [TS]

  on the screen and you're always moving [TS]

  around to get out of the way that is [TS]

  always on top now to counter that many [TS]

  people wrote in to say actually [TS]

  assistive touch is awesome it's an [TS]

  advantage [TS]

  it's not it's not a burden that I have [TS]

  to move out of the way or rather that [TS]

  burden is counteracted by the abilities [TS]

  that I have with this is a touch that I [TS]

  don't have without it i've never even [TS]

  heard of these things but apparently [TS]

  people love the idea that they can sort [TS]

  of use features that would be harder to [TS]

  access that they did not assist attached [TS]

  because history is always on top and you [TS]

  can do all sorts of stuff from it that [TS]

  you can sometimes that you can't do it [TS]

  all one person is saying that you can [TS]

  turn off the shutter sound for the the [TS]

  camera that apparently you can't do it [TS]

  all without this feature but just having [TS]

  quick access to the functions that are [TS]

  revealed under it makes it worth having [TS]

  on the screen all the time [TS]

  well that no apparently it's a lot [TS]

  faster once you get good at it [TS]

  people were saying just having it right [TS]

  where your thumb is rather than having [TS]

  to reach and I know people start to roll [TS]

  their eyes but I'm being serious [TS]

  rather than having to reach down to the [TS]

  bottom of the phone to the home button [TS]

  having that little white orb just [TS]

  hanging out right there is in many cases [TS]

  faster and I'm just as we're recording [TS]

  looking at the assistive touch setup so [TS]

  it's General accessibility or if you're [TS]

  John siracusa just random customizations [TS]

  you'd like to make assistive touch but [TS]

  then you can turn it on you can [TS]

  customize the things that are there so [TS]

  the the defaults on my phone or [TS]

  notification center device whatever that [TS]

  means control center home in Serie but [TS]

  you can add or remove the number of [TS]

  icons i presume I can't yet I [TS]

  nikon to change there's all sorts of [TS]

  different things you can do including [TS]

  take a screenshot for example so it is [TS]

  pretty cool [TS]

  what's available i still find this to be [TS]

  an annoyance for me because i'm lucky [TS]

  enough to be able bodied and not have to [TS]

  have it but I can see why someone who [TS]

  was perhaps used to it or just assumes [TS]

  like this is the way it's supposed to be [TS]

  I can see how would become inconvenient [TS]

  need to have it around the orientation [TS]

  lock is the one that kind of turn my [TS]

  head I'm like you I wish I missed the [TS]

  orientation lock iPads you know like [TS]

  Manning orientational even though it's [TS]

  just in control center in your you know [TS]

  it's not that far away but you know some [TS]

  apps you do the double click to get it [TS]

  up and anyway it if it was always [TS]

  available like if you if you get what [TS]

  I'm saying is if you get used to having [TS]

  it there it's like it's the cultural [TS]

  thing to do because that's what this is [TS]

  not a technical thing and this is not [TS]

  not even a preference thing one at the [TS]

  point where where the person you buy [TS]

  your phone from is setting up for you [TS]

  but it's a cultural thing at that point [TS]

  is no longer anything to do with [TS]

  personal preference let alone [TS]

  accessibility so fine a cultural thing [TS]

  to have this thing on and hopefully [TS]

  there are some advantages and there are [TS]

  like it'sit's breathing a set of users [TS]

  who are good-looking that little puck [TS]

  around the screen and who each person [TS]

  customize it to do the features that [TS]

  they want to have quickly accessible the [TS]

  cost is that they're fucking this little [TS]

  thing around the screen that's on top [TS]

  now i would say to the people who care [TS]

  because maybe you don't maybe you're [TS]

  happy like this is the way we do it all [TS]

  here and this is just how you use it on [TS]

  camera today about that's fine but i [TS]

  would say try it without assistive touch [TS]

  use the home button until it breaks [TS]

  once the brakes go back to assistive [TS]

  touch if you're not resetting your phone [TS]

  I feel like that may give you a glimpse [TS]

  at how i can speak over the US but how I [TS]

  think most people in the US are using [TS]

  iOS and I guess the US side it is maybe [TS]

  try assistive touch see what everyone [TS]

  else is doing smooching that little puck [TS]

  around the screen to get out of the way [TS]

  the stuff they're trying to read and see [TS]

  if you think it's an advantage maybe you [TS]

  get into a habit of leaving it right [TS]

  into your thumb I you know whatever [TS]

  group you have on your phone that could [TS]

  be a good thing but it's hard for me to [TS]

  get away from the notion that people are [TS]

  badly bad be miss assessing the risk of [TS]

  breaking home buttons on the current [TS]

  iphones even on the floor i would say [TS]

  universally using assistive touch for [TS]

  fear of home button breakage is a [TS]

  terrible decision [TS]

  rationality wise but if you set that [TS]

  aside and say whatever let's just [TS]

  pretend they're doing this you know [TS]

  they're there can be advantages and I [TS]

  think it's something that apple will [TS]

  have to I mean maybe they already are [TS]

  what we talked about last time maybe [TS]

  they're looking at business that's why [TS]

  they made the home button doesnt move [TS]

  but that Apple have to think about if [TS]

  they're ever going towards this mythical [TS]

  home button that we've discussed where [TS]

  like the hopeful iphone screen and you [TS]

  just put your fingers on the screen for [TS]

  touch ID and the home button is on the [TS]

  screen like the the full screen iphone [TS]

  that Bobby maybe that's not gonna be [TS]

  next year maybe next year is just going [TS]

  to bring in the margins on the phone [TS]

  right but everyone's been talking about [TS]

  for years and years but it was all just [TS]

  screaming and the home button was a [TS]

  screen there remember in the early days [TS]

  the iphone was basically religion [TS]

  amongst the the Apple nerds like no [TS]

  don't you understand the genius of the [TS]

  one physical button and it's true that [TS]

  was genius but things evolve yeah we [TS]

  also we also something that was the one [TS]

  best screen size that we would always [TS]

  keep this speak for yourself i'm saying [TS]

  that I'm saying the apple into all wrong [TS]

  as always include myself but not but yet [TS]

  like things have their time in place [TS]

  right that the things of all the right [TS]

  you think of a good example of that is [TS]

  even Apple had to eventually concede to [TS]

  the notion of right-click like they [TS]

  don't put two buttons on their mice but [TS]

  you can right-click on right so things [TS]

  do evolve then it's best not to be [TS]

  stubborn like Apple is by not putting a [TS]

  legit right click button on their mice [TS]

  and making me with your other finger [TS]

  which is annoying anyway things do [TS]

  evolve and it could be that the phones [TS]

  eventually evolved to the point where [TS]

  they're all screen and they do have off [TS]

  the point where off-screen guess what [TS]

  entire section of the globe has been [TS]

  practicing for years and years using a [TS]

  phone entirely touching the screen [TS]

  without touching the home button [TS]

  yeah and so maybe they can learn [TS]

  something from the use of assistive [TS]

  touch over there to influence how not to [TS]

  screw this up when they finally take [TS]

  away the home button entirely and marcos [TS]

  ballistic [TS]

  I'll be fine i mean the the current the [TS]

  one of the seven already is mediocre so [TS]

  it's fine [TS]

  easing you into it there is a small [TS]

  degrees of anger is something we know [TS]

  what the headphone jack it's like yeah [TS]

  okay now like here's what we're gonna do [TS]

  they're going to start leaking to the [TS]

  wall street journal and Bloomberg in [TS]

  February that the next iPhone is not [TS]

  going to have a home button at all and [TS]

  it will be all screen and then we'll all [TS]

  get mad about it over the summer and [TS]

  by the time the fall comes around [TS]

  everyone would be like died has no home [TS]

  button that's old news yeah I think [TS]

  you've got a while to go on that I think [TS]

  my my based on nothing [TS]

  my impression is that the were not there [TS]

  yet for the touch ID like to go to go [TS]

  through the screen yeah there was a [TS]

  patent about a few years back but it [TS]

  that's that's a whole different thing [TS]

  for being able to ship a billion is [TS]

  using especially since next year's [TS]

  iphone is oled right so i think next [TS]

  year is all about oled and in the screen [TS]

  and getting everything tucked in there i [TS]

  think they can't do all that at the same [TS]

  time as they figure out some magical [TS]

  technology to bury touch ID under it so [TS]

  i'm gonna guess based on nothing next [TS]

  year's oled but touch ID will not be on [TS]

  the screen [TS]

  yeah i mean and in all fairness like [TS]

  pretty much every other manufacturer has [TS]

  figure out how to put sensors on the [TS]

  back of the phone and I I always assume [TS]

  that would be bad and weird but for [TS]

  people who actually use them they seem [TS]

  to be okay with it so maybe that could [TS]

  be another solution the whole back of [TS]

  the phone speed camera not touch sensor [TS]

  right now the whole back of the phone is [TS]

  a fingerprint what he called like the [TS]

  things of the police station they take [TS]

  your fingerprints [TS]

  exactly that's why you can affect it is [TS]

  already covered in fingerprints model [TS]

  using touch ID ID you want to meet your [TS]

  finger there tho unlock automatically [TS]

  just from the leftover finger greece in [TS]

  response to this week by betterment it [TS]

  is never too late to save for retirement [TS]

  where are your other financial goals and [TS]

  financial services industry has embraced [TS]

  technology with the entry of automated [TS]

  investing and robo advisor services now [TS]

  betterment is the largest independent [TS]

  automated investing service out there [TS]

  you probably hearing a lot about them in [TS]

  TechCrunch the wall street journal and [TS]

  other major news outlets better makes [TS]

  betterment makes it easier more [TS]

  straightforward and less expensive to [TS]

  invest betterment is built on smarter [TS]

  cutting-edge technology to bring [TS]

  sophisticated investing and financial [TS]

  advice all at a lower cost the more [TS]

  traditional financial services more than [TS]

  a hundred and seventy-five thousand [TS]

  customers choose betterments advanced [TS]

  advice algorithms and beautiful user [TS]

  interface to manage over five billion of [TS]

  their dollars [TS]

  this is the perfect time you started [TS]

  with betterment and get started saving [TS]

  for retirement or meeting or other [TS]

  financial goals [TS]

  atv listeners can get up to six months [TS]

  of no fees [TS]

  learn more at betterment dot-com / ATP [TS]

  that's a better mint.com / ATP [TS]

  betterment investing made better [TS]

  moving on Scott O'Reilly who is creator [TS]

  of the dash prior sponsor the show he [TS]

  made a discovery few days back he was I [TS]

  guess listening to regular headphones [TS]

  with the Lightning to headphone adapter [TS]

  and had pause his headphones on board [TS]

  policies i should say pause the phone [TS]

  and whatever was playing he came back [TS]

  after five minutes and he couldn't use [TS]

  the little bulbus strongly thing on his [TS]

  headphones in order to restart audio so [TS]

  you don't get into this little bit now [TS]

  eventually made a truly wonderful [TS]

  demonstration video which will link in [TS]

  the show notes where he left a recording [TS]

  for you know sum total of like six or [TS]

  seven minutes but basically played a [TS]

  little bit i believe our show paused it [TS]

  by way of the headphones and then let it [TS]

  sit for five minutes came back and sure [TS]

  enough when he tried via the headphones [TS]

  on pause it it didn't work and so this [TS]

  was quite a brouhaha because when a new [TS]

  phone comes out that's what everyone [TS]

  goes looking for and somewhere although [TS]

  i don't have a link handy at the moment [TS]

  and we'll put something in the show [TS]

  notes will find it later [TS]

  apparently apple is said to someone [TS]

  someway somehow that yeah this is a bug [TS]

  we're going to fix it [TS]

  yeah and any TP tipster said earlier in [TS]

  the check whatever it's worth that we [TS]

  should probably expect a 1002 update [TS]

  roughly in a week or two but here i [TS]

  think it next week that will fix that [TS]

  bug along with the the microphone [TS]

  cutting out bug that has hit both me and [TS]

  tiff during phone calls and a bunch of [TS]

  other little bugs so hopefully this will [TS]

  be fixed quickly it's good to get that [TS]

  feedback too because especially with the [TS]

  lighting headphones over like we don't [TS]

  know what the rules are this new right [TS]

  by this headphone port lyst future like [TS]

  is this like is to say people like this [TS]

  a battery or is this a feature that [TS]

  supposed to be there was like it was so [TS]

  nice to hear very quickly from Apple [TS]

  sources through whatever means they have [TS]

  like no it's just it's not supposed to [TS]

  work that way they'll fix it hopefully [TS]

  they will actually fix it because of [TS]

  this ends up being like I will try to [TS]

  fix it again every point releasing it [TS]

  keeps being wonky that's going to be bad [TS]

  but anyway it's not if they're not [TS]

  supposed to work like this it's not a a [TS]

  feature that's like well now you can [TS]

  have the headphone port I'm sorry pause [TS]

  too long it's gone [TS]

  I love the idea of ATP tipster as like a [TS]

  PR outlet for apple [TS]

  well to be fair the ATP tips are just [TS]

  provided us a link to 95 Mac where it's [TS]

  where the headline examples of fixes [TS]

  coming for lightning headphones bug that [TS]

  causes playback controls to stop working [TS]

  apparently they made the statement [TS]

  originally though to business insider [TS]

  and something tells me I will [TS]

  yes as much as it pains me feels like [TS]

  that there's any other site they talked [TS]

  to at least they talked to my mordow XXX [TS]

  than anybody else and everyone else [TS]

  report on the business insider article [TS]

  hate when that happens that's the worst [TS]

  alright alright moving on but that was a [TS]

  very interesting fine by Scott O'Reilly [TS]

  and I was i I was really pleased to see [TS]

  a demo video the end it wasn't [TS]

  sensational it wasn't look at me talking [TS]

  for 20 minutes about how awful this is [TS]

  it was just very plain as day i'm going [TS]

  to show you what happens make of it what [TS]

  you will [TS]

  so well done Skylanders very failure to [TS]

  communicate and tweets though because [TS]

  that was the problem like over here [TS]

  originally tweeted yeah you were like I [TS]

  tried to do that doesn't happen for me [TS]

  it was like it was reading comprehension [TS]

  and and difficulty of finding a thought [TS]

  in 240 characters or whatever it is with [TS]

  the new limit rules because it was like [TS]

  it doesn't happen to me and like what [TS]

  are you playing the song and then it [TS]

  cuts out after five minutes or you like [TS]

  people didn't understand what's going on [TS]

  a video is just the most straightforward [TS]

  way to say this is what I'm doing look [TS]

  here it is and then then everyone [TS]

  finally understood what he was talking [TS]

  about and then everyone can see that [TS]

  this is a real thing that happens [TS]

  yeah I didn't understand either and I [TS]

  thought he meant with any sort of [TS]

  headphones i tried with my lightning [TS]

  ones i got this works great what are you [TS]

  talking about then turns out it was the [TS]

  adapter that was the problem so fair [TS]

  enough [TS]

  speaking of this isn't in the show notes [TS]

  here but we should probably talk about [TS]

  it [TS]

  apparently the teardown the teardown has [TS]

  been done and there is a [TS]

  digital-to-analog converter in the [TS]

  Lightning to 3.5 millimeter headphone [TS]

  adapter [TS]

  yep it's basically exactly what we [TS]

  speculated last time which was yes [TS]

  there's probably a little tiny a camp in [TS]

  the headphone adapter because that's [TS]

  just easier and they're really cheap and [TS]

  it's probably at the at the Lightning [TS]

  end of the cable and sure enough the [TS]

  editor and verifies all that is exactly [TS]

  the case [TS]

  nothing really exciting here you're [TS]

  still confused about this last show i [TS]

  was talking [TS]

  specifically about the lighting [TS]

  earphones obviously it's enlightening [TS]

  and on on the adapter but just the plan [TS]

  all your phones that don't have an [TS]

  adapter the ones that come in the box [TS]

  that's the you know strangely funny part [TS]

  is that you know that the promise [TS]

  digital audio is that the digital signal [TS]

  will get a couple of millimeters out of [TS]

  your phone you already getting but [TS]

  obviously is gonna get converted by the [TS]

  adapter but even the headphones looks [TS]

  like which makes sense because they're [TS]

  gonna use the same little you know [TS]

  little lightning connector end the [TS]

  headphones the audio turns analog as [TS]

  soon as it hits the adapter and then is [TS]

  just plain old dirty analog signals [TS]

  going over those wires here your pods [TS]

  which apparently don't have any little [TS]

  dachshund looking at the size of these [TS]

  chips it seems like they couldn't fit [TS]

  into your pots they want to but then I [TS]

  get to when you can just have one why [TS]

  improve the quality over the wire to [TS]

  those terrible earpods yeah I know it's [TS]

  not doesn't make a difference it's just [TS]

  you know although from what I understand [TS]

  i've read conflicting reviews on this [TS]

  from people who have tested out the new [TS]

  air pods but most i read a couple of you [TS]

  said they sound exactly like it was just [TS]

  a wireless version of the wired ones [TS]

  that we've had for years we could be [TS]

  pretty disappointing because the wired [TS]

  one sound terrible but most of the [TS]

  reviews have said they sound notice will [TS]

  be better so I i'm actually now curious [TS]

  about them and I i do i I have my doubts [TS]

  whether they will fit me at all whether [TS]

  I'll be able to wear them comfortably [TS]

  but some people have said that they [TS]

  could never comfortably wear the other [TS]

  ones but these are not comfortable to [TS]

  them so I'm interested [TS]

  yeah I bread i've read that as well too [TS]

  and i don't i don't understand that [TS]

  because every picture like they look the [TS]

  same is there something is there a scale [TS]

  thing on the picture is a perspective [TS]

  thing [TS]

  well part of it could be like if if the [TS]

  weight of the wire realize you're [TS]

  pulling on that yeah like that could [TS]

  affect how it fits for you in practice [TS]

  but I don't know I i think it's unlikely [TS]

  i will end up liking them and me if I [TS]

  hate them all just giving the tiff but [TS]

  she wears those your part sometimes so [TS]

  that that's fine i should probably test [TS]

  all the police headphones exist in the [TS]

  world anyway for my headphone review but [TS]

  yeah basically i'm curious about them [TS]

  everyone says they work really well i'm [TS]

  pretty happy with my bluetooth [TS]

  headphones my little sennheiser [TS]

  bluetooth things but you know if worse [TS]

  comes to worse like i said i get some to [TS]

  review I my one my one reservation [TS]

  on-air apology i think every review is [TS]

  pointed out so far and many people too [TS]

  and as well who are speculating about it [TS]

  i do think that it will be annoying to [TS]

  not have any kind of meaningful remote [TS]

  control ability on the mix-up either [TS]

  Siri or play/pause like to not have an [TS]

  easy volume control your watch [TS]

  but that's still not as fast as reaching [TS]

  out like you're hitting a button and [TS]

  you're not my watch [TS]

  well that's that's the bed you made [TS]

  yourself he even with the Apple watch by [TS]

  the way on my watch telling the time a [TS]

  hundred times a day is way faster than [TS]

  having your Apple watch it also does [TS]

  need to be charged ever but anyway [TS]

  that's that then you may kiss me to buy [TS]

  a winder for it and it wasn't for the [TS]

  ones i was wearing that's something [TS]

  that's the best part is that that's [TS]

  really a thing you can get your watch [TS]

  case with an automatic winder it's [TS]

  totally optional totally barbaric also [TS]

  hire man named Jesus to win them for [TS]

  that sounds amazing you ask him stuff to [TS]

  an attack or non tech or however you [TS]

  pronounce this reports on a chip works [TS]

  report that says there's three audio [TS]

  amps in the phone and so there they say [TS]

  this is a non-tech antec however you [TS]

  pronounce that one interesting aspect of [TS]

  the chip works report is that they [TS]

  unexpectedly found a third audio [TS]

  amplifier to purchase was expecting to [TS]

  find two one for each of the speakers [TS]

  that came up with the third the firm [TS]

  believes that this is that third amp [TS]

  maybe for headphones which in turn would [TS]

  mean that Apple significantly revised [TS]

  lightning pulley ports but wolf [TS]

  significantly revised the Lightning port [TS]

  specification for the iphone 7 [TS]

  previously Lightning has only carry [TS]

  digital audio which doesn't require an [TS]

  amp in the phone itself in the initial [TS]

  iphone 7 announcement I'd speculated [TS]

  that Apple put the deck and amp inside [TS]

  there's three point five millimeter [TS]

  adapter which we now know is true which [TS]

  would be consistent with how things work [TS]

  for over the last four years but this [TS]

  cast doubt on that area or on that idea [TS]

  so now this was written before this [TS]

  teardown that we were just speaking of [TS]

  so why the third amp then obviously it's [TS]

  because it's easier to put that in there [TS]

  and then you can make a go no-go on the [TS]

  head for important mobile at any time [TS]

  that's my guess like this three and the [TS]

  three and then and there is three in the [TS]

  success right or there would be you know [TS]

  there would be one for the head for not [TS]

  sorry because there's only one speaker [TS]

  but I what you know to me like it's [TS]

  therefore the headphone jack that's not [TS]

  there [TS]

  that's totally yes I mean do you [TS]

  remember what was it that was like it [TS]

  and ipod touch or something that [TS]

  did your heart you saw the missed a call [TS]

  for where the thing was supposed to be [TS]

  this is just part of hardware [TS]

  manufacturer you cover your bets those [TS]

  those little chips cost nothing if they [TS]

  have the space for it they're gonna put [TS]

  it there so they have the option once [TS]

  they finalize the spec and all the [TS]

  electrical you know the global that's my [TS]

  guess [TS]

  unless they were just totally wrong miss [TS]

  the unified ship almost is used for some [TS]

  of the purpose someone an apple hardware [TS]

  can tell us but it's totally plausible [TS]

  to me that there's a thing they put [TS]

  their that didn't happen to use I mean [TS]

  it's also possible like the second one [TS]

  could be used for the second speaker [TS]

  like they might not be running 1am to [TS]

  drive two speakers maybe they have one [TS]

  in each of them for various you know [TS]

  electrical convenience reasons or you [TS]

  know better [TS]

  cable routing or less powerful i said [TS]

  this this three of them right well one [TS]

  for each speaker and 140 yeah I guess [TS]

  Sam math is hard [TS]

  well it could be for the microphone i [TS]

  mean you know it the these things are so [TS]

  cheap and like anything you're running [TS]

  analog audio traces on a circuit board [TS]

  in a digital device full of various you [TS]

  know interference sources you have to be [TS]

  pretty careful where you can run those [TS]

  without picking up noise and other [TS]

  problems on on the analog signals and [TS]

  because these old a camp chips are so [TS]

  tiny and so dirt cheap you can basically [TS]

  put them wherever you feel like wherever [TS]

  it's convenient for the rest of your [TS]

  needs so if if it's most convenient to [TS]

  have another one for the microphone and [TS]

  not use the same one that is used by the [TS]

  by the the bottom speaker that they can [TS]

  do that it's really no big deal these [TS]

  these chips are tiny and and costs [TS]

  nothing anyway if everything goes to [TS]

  figure out whether the adapters use a [TS]

  DAC the best way to do it was dope [TS]

  attacks that's what people did although [TS]

  i still people have opened them up and [TS]

  melt all the plastic and seeing the [TS]

  little number on the chips but because [TS]

  Apple uses so many custom things are you [TS]

  don't know if anyone has track that [TS]

  number down said definitively this is a [TS]

  damn thing but that's what everyone [TS]

  believes it to be and it totally makes [TS]

  sense so i would consider this mouse [TS]

  that matter settled until somebody says [TS]

  wait wait wait that ship actually isn't [TS]

  doing what you think it is [TS]

  alright so John you are seem to be [TS]

  claiming by way of the show notes and [TS]

  links to Twitter that you are some i [TS]

  clairvoyant would you like to talk about [TS]

  this [TS]

  no I just thinking about like I think [TS]

  about the jet-black phone because I you [TS]

  know I'm still I'm still on in the [TS]

  deciding mode over there any chat black [TS]

  or not [TS]

  we're gonna use about a case and anyway [TS]

  I gotta say it like i said i gotta see [TS]

  it in person and so on so forth but [TS]

  people at the face now where people have [TS]

  the jet black I phones and our posting [TS]

  pictures of their various scratches or [TS]

  in the case of christina warren their [TS]

  gigantic dense and saying this is what a [TS]

  gyp like I was gonna look like a [TS]

  fingerprint wise or scratches or [TS]

  whatever and I have to decide you know [TS]

  whether that's worth it to me and so on [TS]

  so forth and it made me think again [TS]

  about a topic that I every visited in [TS]

  past podcast and I tried to do some [TS]

  research I was like is there an episode [TS]

  where I talked about this and do my [TS]

  research and found out there's like nine [TS]

  hundred episodes we're talking about [TS]

  that I talked about all the time for [TS]

  like cumulatively hours so you know it's [TS]

  good that I remember my past as well but [TS]

  anyway because I did all the research [TS]

  i'm not going to bore you all with it [TS]

  now will put a bunch of links in the [TS]

  show notes to me talking about the issue [TS]

  of electronics and how they whereas you [TS]

  use them like how when as they get older [TS]

  a little a crappier and you like them [TS]

  less or do they sort of developer a [TS]

  patina or like become familiar and like [TS]

  you you love them more as they age and [TS]

  I'm sort of worn in you know that that [TS]

  dichotomy has been discussed in many but [TS]

  many people on the web and in fact that [TS]

  these early episodes of hypocritical we [TS]

  talk about it i'm deciding a blog post [TS]

  that themselves comes from years earlier [TS]

  and i think the last time it came up you [TS]

  know in our little circle in a big way [TS]

  was with the iphone 5 the original black [TS]

  back and the iphone 5 the Blackwood [TS]

  scratch off and you see the aluminium [TS]

  color and everything that was the the [TS]

  you know the jet-black of the day we're [TS]

  was complaining about the scratches and [TS]

  at that time this is 2012 i tweeted that [TS]

  an iphone with three scratches may look [TS]

  awful but best case and iphone with [TS]

  5,000 scratches will look like the [TS]

  Millennium Falcon and that was me trying [TS]

  to give my view of like right so wired [TS]

  to scratches like oh no my beautiful [TS]

  perfect you know iphone 5 is now scratch [TS]

  with thousand scratches everyone's the [TS]

  morning fog man looks like a hunk of [TS]

  junk but it's got it where it counts you [TS]

  know like that's it you you love the [TS]

  line Falcon because it looks worn and [TS]

  lived in and everything so that's what I [TS]

  was trying to get at [TS]

  I don't know if the jet black iphone [TS]

  qualifies for that I don't know if any [TS]

  of apples current products do but god I [TS]

  talked about it so much on this podcast [TS]

  so we'll put links will put links to [TS]

  these blog posts some of them by Colvin [TS]

  someone who had that original iphone [TS]

  that was really worn down look super [TS]

  awesome and the links will have time [TS]

  stamps on them using marcos cool [TS]

  overcast timestamp shopping feature that [TS]

  works really well with CBR audio so you [TS]

  can jump directly to the timestamp and [TS]

  listen to me talk about this for a long [TS]

  time and i'll spare you from now at Ryan [TS]

  writes into say the Bluetooth stack [TS]

  almost certainly doesn't bitstream [TS]

  without decoding to PCM first you'd have [TS]

  no volume control market you want to [TS]

  kind of translate that into regular [TS]

  human for me [TS]

  sure so last episode we were talking [TS]

  about Casey your audio file friends they [TS]

  had a concern that in order for audio to [TS]

  be transmitted to bluetooth headphones [TS]

  it was generally being recompressed as [TS]

  and some other kind of lossy format [TS]

  depending on on the headphones on the [TS]

  phone that you know that could be [TS]

  different codecs whether it was the old [TS]

  atps pc thing or whether it was [TS]

  something more advanced like a apt x or [TS]

  AC basically it ate any audio sent to [TS]

  bluetooth headphones is being encoded in [TS]

  some kind of lossy format in order to [TS]

  make that transmission happen in a [TS]

  practical way and so one of the options [TS]

  that John you'd asked about was what if [TS]

  if you have an AAC audio source and you [TS]

  have headphones and a phone that can [TS]

  transmit over bluetooth in the AAC [TS]

  format would there be some kind of [TS]

  intelligence there that could just like [TS]

  pass it through untouched so it wouldn't [TS]

  be decoding it and then re-encoding it [TS]

  and you know and possibly occurring [TS]

  quality loss there and at ryans pointing [TS]

  out here that uh basically if you don't [TS]

  decode it and then resend recoded back [TS]

  to the headphones if you don't do that [TS]

  you generally can't adjust the volume [TS]

  and that's typically not entirely true [TS]

  there are like it in the way the files [TS]

  are represented in the way audio is [TS]

  represented in these losses forms it is [TS]

  actually possible in many cases [TS]

  depending on the format to adjust the [TS]

  volume without transcoding it basically [TS]

  to actually modified the encoded [TS]

  compressed data because a lot of times [TS]

  it's represented as like frequency [TS]

  volume frequency volume and so you can [TS]

  just like drop those volume values now [TS]

  it's not it doesn't you can always do it [TS]

  depending on the exact encoding but it [TS]

  is tech [TS]

  really possible to do that in some cases [TS]

  however that's a lot of complexity in [TS]

  addition to all the other complexity [TS]

  involved in passing this bit stream [TS]

  through on modified or minimally [TS]

  modified without decoding 22 regular [TS]

  samples first so basically this isn't [TS]

  happening and it's also point out a [TS]

  friend of the show Mark Edwards from [TS]

  Django software makers of the amazing [TS]

  istat menus at which everyone here [TS]

  except John uses true stories if he's an [TS]

  audio file and one of the good ones and [TS]

  and he and I had a Twitter exchange [TS]

  earlier basically you know my position [TS]

  last episode on whether bluetooth lossy [TS]

  codecs matter [TS]

  my position is basically bluetooth [TS]

  headphones have such mediocre headphone [TS]

  drivers like the actual speaker parts of [TS]

  the headphones there so mediocre on [TS]

  almost everything is out there that the [TS]

  idea that like that whatever quality [TS]

  loss you might incur bye-bye effectively [TS]

  double encoding your music would be [TS]

  undetectable compared to the poor [TS]

  quality of the headphones themselves [TS]

  that you need better quality headphones [TS]

  to to really hear that difference and so [TS]

  mark took me to task for that [TS]

  understandably he's right you know that [TS]

  that is kind of a separate issue like [TS]

  have bluetooth headphones could get [TS]

  better maybe the reason they don't have [TS]

  better drivers because when you put [TS]

  better drivers including bluetooth [TS]

  headphones maybe a soundcraft because [TS]

  the double coat so that is totally valid [TS]

  counter-argument to what I was saying we [TS]

  should definitely consider but thanks to [TS]

  mark my words for pointing that out he's [TS]

  right it is possible this is audible and [TS]

  Mabel Mabel do some experiments some [TS]

  experiments and try but the bigger [TS]

  problem right now is that bluetooth [TS]

  headphones are generally pretty mediocre [TS]

  sounding so if this is a problem we [TS]

  can't tell one more thing on the bit [TS]

  streaming the solution to that if they [TS]

  wanted a bit streams you gotta put the [TS]

  volume control on the headphones and [TS]

  obviously that's not going to work on [TS]

  little tiny earpods but if you had big [TS]

  honkin headphones you can bitstream to [TS]

  them and the deck would be in the [TS]

  headphones and the volume control could [TS]

  also be there in theory [TS]

  not that I think they're gonna do that [TS]

  but many bluetooth headphones have [TS]

  volume control built in and it's kind of [TS]

  like one of the ways that they differ is [TS]

  like some of them the when you push the [TS]

  volume buttons on the headphone it just [TS]

  controls the source devices logical [TS]

  volume for that headphone so like it [TS]

  basically you have one unified volume [TS]

  control if you push the button on the [TS]

  headphone it's not like doing that [TS]

  reduction in the headphone it send the [TS]

  command to the phone saying hey drop [TS]

  your volume by one increment or whatever [TS]

  so some headphones do that and some [TS]

  especially older ones maintain their own [TS]

  volume control in addition to the [TS]

  phone's volume control which is it [TS]

  allows more control but also kind of [TS]

  annoying like if the phone is set really [TS]

  low and you keep pushing up on the [TS]

  headphones [TS]

  it's like next out and you can tell why [TS]

  it's too quiet so it's kind of annoying [TS]

  there but anyway it usually having one [TS]

  unified volume control being you know [TS]

  the headphone controls are actually [TS]

  telling the phone what to do that is [TS]

  generally better which would have this [TS]

  problem we also sponsor this week by [TS]

  linode go to linda.com / ATP and get a [TS]

  ten dollar credit using promo code [TS]

  accidental podcast 10 linode is an [TS]

  incredible [TS]

  webhost i can say that they can't pay me [TS]

  to say it's incredible they can pay me [TS]

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  called longview they have amazing stuff [TS]

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  ATP to see for yourself you get a ten [TS]

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  accidental podcast 10 once again go to [TS]

  linda.com /a TP for my favorite web host [TS]

  ten-dollar credit using promo code [TS]

  accidental podcast 10 thank you very [TS]

  much noise for sponsoring our show so we [TS]

  should talk about what phones we have in [TS]

  the process by which we retrieve them [TS]

  and since i got so angry John last [TS]

  episode about his preposterous claim [TS]

  that accessibility is also his personal [TS]

  private stereo said if you're not my [TS]

  claim you would tell me again that I [TS]

  think the default should be different [TS]

  because you seem to be stuck on that one [TS]

  for a while do to help just I'm just [TS]

  pokin so I think this is the time when [TS]

  Mark when I get angry at each other but [TS]

  we need to meander to that what did you [TS]

  end up getting Marco and and why were [TS]

  you on the news exactly [TS]

  ok so i was on my of what we went to go [TS]

  we have been in-store pickup to get tips [TS]

  phone as i mentioned last week I had [TS]

  some order trouble and then some [TS]

  waffling and then some more trouble with [TS]

  the waffling order and so basically i [TS]

  was unable to make an online order for [TS]

  what ended up ordering which was a [TS]

  jet-black regular size seven anyway we [TS]

  so we went to pick up tips on day one [TS]

  mine was gonna be ready on day one was [TS]

  gonna be like you know mid-october or [TS]

  something and have it just so happened [TS]

  that while we were waiting on line a [TS]

  local news anchor wanted to do a segment [TS]

  on the incredibly long lines at apple [TS]

  stores meanwhile the line wasn't long at [TS]

  all but that's beside the point [TS]

  obviously the news they're gonna do [TS]

  whatever they want anyway to pick up the [TS]

  truth so the news anchor just ask the [TS]

  people who were right in front of her [TS]

  which happened to be me and another guy [TS]

  she's asked us like he would be willing [TS]

  to go on camera live for the local news [TS]

  and tell you know why we're reading [TS]

  online what our favorite features the [TS]

  new iphone are and whatever else and we [TS]

  said sure and there you know there are [TS]

  no questions asked besides that you did [TS]

  she didn't ask what you're going to say [TS]

  well she did but tonight i lied i said i [TS]

  was talking about the camera how great [TS]

  was the better she wanted to restore [TS]

  your story changes should NASA we're [TS]

  gonna say well she did ask me [TS]

  yes but she kind of prompted us with [TS]

  like what she wanted us to save you know [TS]

  in in the journalist standard of like [TS]

  implying like here's what you use I want [TS]

  to hear so and she didn't ask who we [TS]

  were anything she didn't know that I was [TS]

  like an apple person in some capacity [TS]

  like she had no idea didn't matter they [TS]

  didn't come up so fine so that turns the [TS]

  camera on and I give the more sarcastic [TS]

  answer then I think everybody was [TS]

  expecting and it was fun [TS]

  so we can pick up this phone it was fun [TS]

  it's fine [TS]

  get back whatever so I in the middle and [TS]

  bottom so what did tiff end up with [TS]

  which model regular-sized gold [TS]

  meanwhile here i am I when I went to the [TS]

  store i was able to finally see and pick [TS]

  up and and feel both of the black models [TS]

  and I decided right then [TS]

  oh my god I have to have the jet black [TS]

  because it it the way it feels it is so [TS]

  like if like me you have been out there [TS]

  unhappy with the 6 and 6s because they [TS]

  are slippery and they're hard to hold [TS]

  without a case you want the jet black [TS]

  iphone 7 because it feels like the the [TS]

  back of it feels even more grippy than [TS]

  the screen like if you put your hand on [TS]

  glass and you feel the glass screen that [TS]

  that is a grittier like your hand like [TS]

  sticks to it better than it does to the [TS]

  to the slippery aluminum back of the [TS]

  phone on the jet black the opposite the [TS]

  jet black the phone is even creepier [TS]

  than the screen it is so it feels about [TS]

  his groupie as like the old plastic [TS]

  phones did or the or the iphone 5 [TS]

  ceiling of the only kind of newest one [TS]

  you know very very grippy very easy to [TS]

  hold the fact that it looks really cool [TS]

  at you know in from most angles and in [TS]

  most conditions that to me is secondary [TS]

  I don't care how the back of the phone [TS]

  looks really i mean i've lived with with [TS]

  an ugly back phone for the last two [TS]

  years i think the six incidents because [TS]

  i'm mateus from the back you know and [TS]

  and for the success i ended up using one [TS]

  of these debrand vinyl skins for the [TS]

  second half of my ownership of it to [TS]

  cover up half the back just to give it a [TS]

  little more grip the jet black 7 is even [TS]

  creepier than that d-brane vinyl skin [TS]

  was like it's so nice and grippy so I [TS]

  immediately thought I don't care how [TS]

  quickly this thing scratches how bad it [TS]

  looks I look at the back of my phone i'm [TS]

  using it but I'm always feeling the back [TS]

  of my phone [TS]

  i'm using it so grip matters more to me [TS]

  than looks so of course I go home and [TS]

  try to get a jet-black phone and I'm [TS]

  going through like ebay and everything [TS]

  and it's just a disaster like trying to [TS]

  buy anything ever on ebay or sell it for [TS]

  that matter is always a bit of a [TS]

  disaster ebay is it just a horrible [TS]

  place full of horrible people trying to [TS]

  scam each other with ebay being one of [TS]

  those people trying to scam the [TS]

  customers anyway it's it's wonderful [TS]

  so that's it was a mess trying it on [TS]

  ebay i did try a bit in a few but they [TS]

  were there you know that the phone I [TS]

  wanted retailed for like after-tax about [TS]

  eight hundred dollars and they were [TS]

  going to ebay for like 1200 up so like I [TS]

  don't really want to spend like four [TS]

  hundred extra dollars just for the [TS]

  privilege of getting a little bit sooner [TS]

  like I start talking about on twitter [TS]

  and and i was contacted by a guy named [TS]

  Chris handset Chris Hansen he's the [TS]

  author of death note software so i [TS]

  should give them a plug he really went [TS]

  above and beyond here it's def notes [TS]

  like the bird of know.com / pace is his [TS]

  is a main app it's an app called pace [TS]

  let you take breaks on on the mac while [TS]

  you're working it's pretty cool [TS]

  chris from does note software kind of me [TS]

  on Twitter and he said hey I have a jet [TS]

  black one that i just opened I decided I [TS]

  didn't want that color so I'm going to [TS]

  return it but if you want to sell to you [TS]

  at cost [TS]

  wow this is pretty cool that is super [TS]

  cool if you want to sell on ebay he [TS]

  couldn't give me 400 bucks right but he [TS]

  didn't you he was a fan of the show he [TS]

  wanted you wanted me to help me out [TS]

  awesome and the box comes i'm signing [TS]

  forward with my UPS driver and I'm like [TS]

  this is really light box seems like is [TS]

  there really a phone in here like did he [TS]

  like not DD like just sound like the [TS]

  phone itself and not the packaging maybe [TS]

  like not like it feels really light and [TS]

  even the UPS drivers like yeah there's [TS]

  there's no phone in here it's way too [TS]

  light like okay so i go inside open it [TS]

  up and kind of go fish through it and [TS]

  it's full of packing peanuts and only [TS]

  packing peanuts [TS]

  oh no and the packing slip with the [TS]

  phone you know the Apple packing slip [TS]

  and a little card from chris saying hey [TS]

  hope you enjoy he's a nice guy and the [TS]

  plastic wrap to an iphone box which you [TS]

  can identify the little green pull-tab [TS]

  arrow on one side [TS]

  no you know Chris like aii yet we have [TS]

  read some common friends was pretty sure [TS]

  he you know he wasn't like the scammer [TS]

  here so I kind of them and I'm like hey [TS]

  yeah we have a problem and he was super [TS]

  great about it so it turns out he had [TS]

  like.he dropped off at the store he has [TS]

  a receipt at the store saying it weighed [TS]

  seven pounds when it left the store [TS]

  oh goodness and it arrives with me [TS]

  waiting nothing and being full attack of [TS]

  the nouns you say yeah go on go on [TS]

  just keep going just plowed bravely had [TS]

  all right yeah haha you know if they're [TS]

  so he merely refund my money and you [TS]

  know I with your life if you have a [TS]

  buyer in this situation if you use [TS]

  paypal and you pay the goods rate not [TS]

  like the sending people cash rate which [TS]

  eliminates the fee [TS]

  look there's a reason you pay those fees [TS]

  those fees cover you as the buyer and [TS]

  when you're buying things you should [TS]

  always do that option of the goods rate [TS]

  weather weather is a fee even for seller [TS]

  makes you pay the fee which is actually [TS]

  I think against paypal streaming service [TS]

  to ask you to do that but regardless [TS]

  even if the seller makes you pay the fee [TS]

  you need to do that way because it [TS]

  protects you in situations like this [TS]

  so anyway he does i don't have to file [TS]

  claims he's a nice guy and he [TS]

  immediately front of the money he's like [TS]

  I'll deal with it because it wasn't sure [TS]

  so he goes and deals with ups and it's [TS]

  still in process but he's he's he's [TS]

  working with them I feel so bad for this [TS]

  guy because like here he was doing me [TS]

  this favor [TS]

  yeah he's trying to do you a solid yes [TS]

  so now we've learned don't send an [TS]

  iphone right during iphone many a time [TS]

  because it and it's like you know it's [TS]

  it's obviously an iphone box because [TS]

  people who like people who work for UPS [TS]

  have seen a billion of these boxes over [TS]

  the last few days and it's he said in [TS]

  the same box that's like the perfect [TS]

  opportunity if you're like you know [TS]

  anyway so it was stolen [TS]

  now now Chris is like stuck dealing with [TS]

  all those insurance crap eps really bad [TS]

  form so please look at his appt pace by [TS]

  definite software make me feel a little [TS]

  better [TS]

  that sucks so much so that that I would [TS]

  I was like you know what screw this i am [TS]

  not going to try to buy another phone on [TS]

  the internet like I just trying to get [TS]

  through apple for that would however [TS]

  long it takes [TS]

  I don't care just for you and this i [TS]

  have bought so many things online ebay [TS]

  amazon everywhere else [TS]

  individual sellers people on forums I've [TS]

  bought and sold so many things online [TS]

  this is the first time I've ever had [TS]

  something stolen so I emailed my my [TS]

  business rep at the origin of the the [TS]

  apple retail business rep at my to local [TS]

  stores on monday morning just basically [TS]

  saying you know Brad this little hole [TS]

  happened basically k if there's any kind [TS]

  of waiting list you can put me on [TS]

  anything please you know I could really [TS]

  use one [TS]

  one of the stores said sorry we can't we [TS]

  can't really do it we don't know what [TS]

  we're gonna have no store said yeah I [TS]

  got two right here you want to pick it [TS]

  up right now you need both so I monday i [TS]

  went in on monday Monday around luncheon [TS]

  picked up my brand new jet black iphone [TS]

  7 128 gig tmobile unlocked i finally [TS]

  have it through a regular means and [TS]

  hopefully everybody buys pace by [TS]

  definite software so that Chris's let's [TS]

  put out by this whole ordeal and [TS]

  everything is fine now and you like it i [TS]

  think i love it [TS]

  so here's the thing the the as i said [TS]

  the jet black finish is amazing like if [TS]

  you have any chance to if you don't have [TS]

  one of these yet if you have any chance [TS]

  to go handle one in a store i strongly [TS]

  suggest you do it if you're on the fence [TS]

  about whether you want jet-black really [TS]

  really go try them if you really value [TS]

  the grip of your phone [TS]

  I'd say just order blind just like just [TS]

  get it because it really does make a big [TS]

  difference [TS]

  mine is of course already has some minor [TS]

  micro abrasions on it but I don't care [TS]

  you can only see them in certain [TS]

  lighting it's it's very much like I [TS]

  would compare it to clearcoat scratches [TS]

  on a black car where the black layer [TS]

  itself does not appear to be scratched [TS]

  but if you like move it around the light [TS]

  and catch the catch like the glare the [TS]

  light you will see little fine scratches [TS]

  here and there mostly around the edges [TS]

  and it's fine I don't care it's it's [TS]

  amazing and if it ends up looking like [TS]

  the middle of the millennium falcon cool [TS]

  if it ends up just looking like a [TS]

  scratched-up old classic ipod with the [TS]

  steal back [TS]

  I don't really care about that either as [TS]

  long as it continues to feel anything [TS]

  like it feels I couldn't tell us how [TS]

  much the back scratch because it feels [TS]

  so incredibly good and if i didn't have [TS]

  it feel [TS]

  that good if it was a slippery as the [TS]

  other ones i would put some ugly case or [TS]

  vinyl decal over anyway so like either [TS]

  way like I'm not seeing the perfectly [TS]

  clear back of the phone I would also [TS]

  point out on the fingerprint issue that [TS]

  the ones i saw in the store for the [TS]

  matte black model it seems that the [TS]

  matte black one is actually pretty bad [TS]

  about fingerprints to the difference is [TS]

  they're harder to wipe off the the jet [TS]

  black has a I've heard from a couple [TS]

  people who have a PR connections and [TS]

  apparently the jet-black does have the [TS]

  oleophobic coating along the whole [TS]

  backside of it so it does wipe off [TS]

  easily just like the screen basically if [TS]

  you like right on your on your jeans or [TS]

  whatever so getting fingerprints off of [TS]

  it is fine if you actually care honestly [TS]

  I don't care because I don't look at the [TS]

  back but if you're concerned about [TS]

  fingerprints the matte black [TS]

  I would say is is really no better [TS]

  because the fingerprint show up just as [TS]

  much on it and they they don't come off [TS]

  as easily they kind of just like dollar [TS]

  smear i try to wipe them off so anyway [TS]

  that that's my thoughts on the on the [TS]

  case and the color so far the home [TS]

  button i am kind of mixed on I don't [TS]

  hate it as much as I thought I would I [TS]

  don't love it some people love it that's [TS]

  fine i started out on the setting number [TS]

  one the weakest i have now since moved [TS]

  to cell number 3 based on based on my [TS]

  Curly's urging honor an upgrade that is [TS]

  the one true setting that seems ok so [TS]

  far it's a little loud for me honestly [TS]

  put well and yeah that's about it so far [TS]

  so good i haven't used the headphone [TS]

  jack yet because I hardly ever use wired [TS]

  headphones and that's it [TS]

  I have so many thoughts but before [TS]

  everything was going to ask more [TS]

  questions about the doorstep jet black [TS]

  as a potential purchaser company will [TS]

  ask us but I don't I didn't see your [TS]

  answer [TS]

  what about wetness combined with the [TS]

  service is very tacky business very [TS]

  smooth but if your hand is slightly what [TS]

  does suddenly become [TS]

  a slippery little pill is your hands [TS]

  just like sweaty sweaty it'll actually [TS]

  be really greatly better that way if [TS]

  your hand is like soaked then I think [TS]

  picking up any phones gonna be a problem [TS]

  well this one is waterproof that's why i [TS]

  asked like because it's waterproof you [TS]

  can use it in the rain like in the Apple [TS]

  ads or you could like you know drop in [TS]

  the water and like it seems like it's a [TS]

  confluence of events here this is the [TS]

  first phone where you can actually get [TS]

  wet without you know terror that you're [TS]

  going to destroy your phone and it also [TS]

  seems like the one that might be the [TS]

  slipperiest what I'm asking for you to [TS]

  do is get your phone wet try this [TS]

  no it's not gonna happen if your hands [TS]

  are frequently like dripping wet like [TS]

  you just submerge your hands in water [TS]

  and then you have to handle your phone [TS]

  or the blood of your enemies you know [TS]

  whatever sure that maybe choose a [TS]

  different one but you know for everyday [TS]

  regular use by in most conditions the [TS]

  group of this is incredible [TS]

  come out of breath I'm going to bring [TS]

  out wet sponge to the apple store are [TS]

  not going to I honestly I think you have [TS]

  I think it would have to be really wet [TS]

  to make that really why you seen all the [TS]

  videos people are dropping these things [TS]

  in the water taking pictures underwater [TS]

  with them like it's gonna give you know [TS]

  it's potentially can get wet I just you [TS]

  know that that's the thing like if the [TS]

  grip is entirely based on you know it [TS]

  being super smooth and creamy like that [TS]

  it suddenly becomes very slippery that [TS]

  that's something i want to know but now [TS]

  that i plan on using in the rain but [TS]

  it's conceivable that I just washed my [TS]

  hands and I'm going to hurry and walk [TS]

  into the other room and grab the thing [TS]

  and if it squirts out of my hand I'm [TS]

  going to be sad because it may be [TS]

  waterproof but it's still not quite drop [TS]

  proof I i think the the the estimation [TS]

  by i think it was Jason snow or no it [TS]

  was groupers and sweet talk show [TS]

  basically like if you're if you're a [TS]

  person with extremely dry hands all the [TS]

  time then maybe you might want to feel [TS]

  one in the store to see if it can be a [TS]

  problem for you [TS]

  I don't have that problem my hands are [TS]

  always like warm and and not like sweaty [TS]

  but like you know slightly moistened i [TS]

  guess i don't know sorry for getting [TS]

  everybody out but so for me it's perfect [TS]

  because it is really incredibly creepy [TS]

  if your hands are if you have any normal [TS]

  level of moisture really i think it's [TS]

  only if your hands are extremely dry [TS]

  like in the middle of winter and you [TS]

  have to cover the motion to interactions [TS]

  that for the next fall apart maybe [TS]

  before your lotion for the day map it [TS]

  might be a bit dry cake [TS]

  or if your hands are literally like in [TS]

  water you know then that it might be a [TS]

  little more slippery but i don't think [TS]

  there's a common occurrence for most [TS]

  people to buy it [TS]

  it rubs the lotion on the Typhon or else [TS]

  against host again [TS]

  hey gotta remember and look at you [TS]

  that's that's that got that got [TS]

  aggressive play anyway I put in like in [TS]

  the show 27 pounds just to save you guys [TS]

  okay I've never heard the flophouse [TS]

  I know I know you know I heard that you [TS]

  can just jump right in any time you'll [TS]

  be fine i went to the other store today [TS]

  and this was my first time seeing or [TS]

  handling a jet black iphone i went to [TS]

  buy a extra headphone adapter to because [TS]

  I know myself enough to know that it's [TS]

  just wise to sprinkle these little [TS]

  things all over the place rather than [TS]

  rely on myself to remember to take it [TS]

  with me when I might need it [TS]

  so for example errands car we play your [TS]

  iphone [TS]

  iphone [TS]

  that's my way of a cassette adapter [TS]

  because her car was built like one of [TS]

  the last year's the cassettes were sort [TS]

  of a thing so I'm going to just leave [TS]

  one of these little adapters in her car [TS]

  in the advantage of being only nine [TS]

  dollars is that you know nine dollars is [TS]

  not free but it is not having sorbitan [TS]

  amount of money so I just grabbed a [TS]

  couple while i was there i looked at the [TS]

  jet black iphone i picked it up the [TS]

  first thing i noticed was holy god i [TS]

  need to get my hands and clorox because [TS]

  i just touched a thousand fingerprints [TS]

  and that i did not really in like i am [TS]

  holding my matte black iphone in my hand [TS]

  and admittedly at a couple of angles you [TS]

  can see some fingerprints on it but [TS]

  generally speaking the only thing I see [TS]

  is all the fingerprints on the apple [TS]

  logo which looks to me to be more of a [TS]

  jet-black ask materials / color I did [TS]

  not notice when I was holding the [TS]

  jet-black phone which I held for a grand [TS]

  total of maybe fifteen seconds and [TS]

  probably very gingerly yeah I did not [TS]

  notice that it was tackier but i can't [TS]

  tell if that's if that means that in my [TS]

  estimation marco was wrong and that it's [TS]

  not tackier or the fact that it wasn't [TS]

  slippery made nothing registered as I [TS]

  mean you know what i mean so like I [TS]

  didn't think to myself all this is super [TS]

  slippery so maybe that means it was [TS]

  tacky now I'm i deeply regret not having [TS]

  thought to like examine the two of them [TS]

  side-by-side I was kind of in a rush and [TS]

  I Declan with me and so I didn't want to [TS]

  just stand there for an hour playing [TS]

  with these things while he's looking at [TS]

  me like dat are you serious right now [TS]

  but I'd like to go back and try it again [TS]

  but I do not see a lot of fingerprints [TS]

  on my jet black one and having seen [TS]

  excuse me on my map like one and having [TS]

  seen the jet black one in the store to [TS]

  my eyes I actually think the matte black [TS]

  looks better [TS]

  hand on heart I really do and I was [TS]

  scared to look at the jet black one [TS]

  because I expected to think to myself oh [TS]

  god I've made a terrible mistake but I [TS]

  really think the matte black looks [TS]

  better and it's what it occurred to me [TS]

  just a day or so ago I think with the [TS]

  Seas is my unbelievable unbridled love [TS]

  for the black book the the black [TS]

  polycarbonate macbook from years ago I [TS]

  wanted one of those so hard [TS]

  it was like 70 years hundred fifty bucks [TS]

  more than the equivalent white one and [TS]

  so I didn't do it when i brought my [TS]

  initial Mac and I missed I missed having [TS]

  the black macbook I thought it looked so [TS]

  good in this to me is the black book of [TS]

  iphones and i just love the look of it [TS]

  that doesn't make Marco wrong but i love [TS]

  the look at this map black one which I [TS]

  know John is not helping you because I [TS]

  know market was really effusive about [TS]

  this Jeff why I'm really effusive about [TS]

  this one [TS]

  I think this one looks so much better [TS]

  than the jet-black to my eyes I I [TS]

  definitely feel for me I made the right [TS]

  choice [TS]

  well and I think we will largely agree [TS]

  on [TS]

  unlike the relative benefits of them the [TS]

  question is priority is really like you [TS]

  know deep what gives you more joy or [TS]

  what is more functional to you you know [TS]

  as when you're choosing your phone's [TS]

  color and finish basically we normally [TS]

  don't even have these kind of choices [TS]

  that make any difference at all this [TS]

  time we actually do have a choice [TS]

  so basically the question is like would [TS]

  you want one that looks kind of [TS]

  fingerprinting a lot of the time and [TS]

  it's gonna be scratched up pretty fast [TS]

  but feels this particular way or would [TS]

  you want one that you know the one you [TS]

  have the matte black one that looks more [TS]

  consistent over time and generally you [TS]

  know a lot of people really do find it [TS]

  very attractive I find honestly I find [TS]

  the black one a little bit boring a [TS]

  little bit dated looking because like [TS]

  four years so much nerd stuff has just [TS]

  been available in black and like and I [TS]

  know not necessarily iphones but you [TS]

  know it's a it's a personal preference i [TS]

  guess you know I find it kinda kinda [TS]

  boring looking to be just flat black and [TS]

  and honestly the jet black one it just [TS]

  so happens i like the way it looks but I [TS]

  really don't care how it looks [TS]

  because feel spoke it that's why I'm [TS]

  going to North scratches so basically [TS]

  comes down to John like d first of all [TS]

  with your type of hand [TS]

  do you find it a lot grittier do you [TS]

  care and then which do you know if the [TS]

  answer those things are yes then [TS]

  basically which do you prefer having a [TS]

  phone that you love the way it looks or [TS]

  having a phone that feels particular way [TS]

  on the other things in the next room is [TS]

  cases because I I always had cases on my [TS]

  ipod touches and i have a case on my [TS]

  first iphone [TS]

  and the jet black one is my first offer [TS]

  was a 6 which as we all knows way too [TS]

  slippery with this but the jet black the [TS]

  question for me is I can I go caseless [TS]

  can i if this is gritty enough [TS]

  can I go case with the end for me with [TS]

  the equations alright so if i decide [TS]

  that is gripping off the ok so let's can [TS]

  I tolerate then the disaster that will [TS]

  be the back of that phone from scratches [TS]

  and I have to get to Marco's place where [TS]

  it's like a look just to cares how it [TS]

  looks I gotta I gotta believe it's gonna [TS]

  look good when it's all scratched up so [TS]

  far all the pictures that I've seen on [TS]

  Twitter of scratched up ones do not look [TS]

  good to me and i will just have to sort [TS]

  of resigned myself to say well you know [TS]

  just don't worry about it like your you [TS]

  exchange your getting a smaller lighter [TS]

  phone because you don't have a case on [TS]

  it or whatever but the on the other side [TS]

  of this is advice if i go to the store [TS]

  and it's like a toss-up I can't quite [TS]

  decide or whatever but I decided that [TS]

  like the jet black is groupies it maybe [TS]

  it's not as griffey is like my leather [TS]

  case or whatever I just decided like the [TS]

  leather one for whatever i'm a i'm [TS]

  getting a jet black one [TS]

  just so I can ensconce it and leather [TS]

  and preserve it so it actually is [TS]

  perfect because it's never actually seen [TS]

  the light of day because from the day at [TS]

  the second i took it out of the box i [TS]

  put a case on it and so that it will be [TS]

  perfect under there and I could see the [TS]

  perfect speaking out on the bottom of [TS]

  the speakers are just know in my heart [TS]

  of hearts that there's an unblemished [TS]

  perfect jet-black back on this thing so [TS]

  that's a factor and the final factor is [TS]

  first of all they won't by the way [TS]

  yeah I really like matte black as a [TS]

  question you a little piece of grit in [TS]

  there but i'll try really hard [TS]

  the matter i really like as i was [TS]

  thinking the same thing like the main [TS]

  function of this matte black is just to [TS]

  make us all wish that Apple has [TS]

  technology because the black book did [TS]

  not stay pristine because it was made of [TS]

  plastic and it wasn't you know didn't [TS]

  hold up and showed fingerprints like [TS]

  crazy [TS]

  I mean what you're saying the matte [TS]

  black one of those too but I like I see [TS]

  the pictures of the matte black and it's [TS]

  a look that I like a jet-black didn't [TS]

  exist i'd be like boy that map pack is [TS]

  my great guys no more space gray like [TS]

  mad but you know i like the matte black [TS]

  no I'm not talking about the the black [TS]

  book that the plastic the black plastic [TS]

  map that showed fingers like crazy but [TS]

  you're saying the matte black following [TS]

  the star also showed fingerprints not as [TS]

  much as the jet black obviously but but [TS]

  I'm saying like in it shows way more [TS]

  fingerprints them like the old space [TS]

  gray ones [TS]

  yeah so I mean the miner has been a case [TS]

  anyway I I've got some research to do [TS]

  and I go to the store the other thing I [TS]

  was thinking about two things as topical [TS]

  the jet black finish with it being [TS]

  grippier and everything they can make [TS]

  that in colors they could you know you [TS]

  know you can imagine if they keep this [TS]

  finish right if this becomes sort of [TS]

  like a signature finish of iphones maybe [TS]

  the SuperDuper cool glass one the back [TS]

  of all of them are that super glossy [TS]

  highly polished aluminum it just so [TS]

  happens they don't all come in black [TS]

  can you imagine you know lifesavers [TS]

  colors like the old imax but with his [TS]

  super who wasn't thinking by the way [TS]

  this is anything that we left out of the [TS]

  shadows last time someone had noticed [TS]

  that the artist like the wallpapers they [TS]

  give you with his weird blob of jell-o [TS]

  exactly matches the color of some of the [TS]

  lifesaver imax plus the the original one [TS]

  which I thought was neat but I can [TS]

  imagine this finish if it ends up being [TS]

  successful being a signature of the [TS]

  iphone going forward but as I said mark [TS]

  on Twitter today when he was talking [TS]

  about what are the things that we're [TS]

  going to look back on about the iphone 7 [TS]

  and thank you know those didn't quite [TS]

  work out or those complaints were legit [TS]

  and he was saying the home button and a [TS]

  few other things my suggestion was that [TS]

  probably the finish on the back of the [TS]

  iphone 7 will not be an ongoing thing [TS]

  not the aesthetic look but I feel like [TS]

  if they're going to make another version [TS]

  of that finished they decide to do that [TS]

  they'll work a little bit harder on the [TS]

  scratch thing right like I feel like [TS]

  this is not where they wanted to get [TS]

  they love how it looks [TS]

  they had to put a little warning about [TS]

  scratching if they have the technology [TS]

  side like the success being slightly [TS]

  less than slightly slippery than the six [TS]

  things that always got the same awesome [TS]

  finish that you love from the seven but [TS]

  now it is more scratch resistant not [TS]

  perfect you know it's not gonna be like [TS]

  the stainless steel dlc thing because [TS]

  that apparently is not a process that [TS]

  you can do aluminum and they're not [TS]

  gonna make it out of steel because the [TS]

  phone the way a time but I can imagine [TS]

  this shiny glossy finish being a thing [TS]

  because it looks cool right [TS]

  and if you can make it less scratchy [TS]

  that would be cool and if you could do [TS]

  it in different colors that would also [TS]

  be cool so I see potentially a future [TS]

  that or this is going to be like a [TS]

  one-off thing where this was the glossy [TS]

  black one and they go on to whatever [TS]

  they already had in mind for the eight [TS]

  but anyway I'm not any closer decision [TS]

  not to see these things in person and [TS]

  hopefully by the time i get all the [TS]

  weird bugs would like the headphone [TS]

  connector and everything will be worked [TS]

  out so thanks for a deal with that guys [TS]

  also have the option for reducing motion [TS]

  and messages guys just wander around [TS]

  schedule for that God [TS]

  alright so just a couple of minor [TS]

  follow-ups to what you just said first [TS]

  of all your your potential option of by [TS]

  the jet-black anyway and just put in a [TS]

  case and keep pursuing forever it will [TS]

  actually work his first of all as you [TS]

  mentioned a little piece of grit might [TS]

  get back there whatever and scratch it [TS]

  I'm real I'm really careful [TS]

  yes so am i I've had this phone for two [TS]

  days and it's already scratches on it it [TS]

  wasn't in a case it was never in the [TS]

  case and some of them are along the [TS]

  bottom edge where the speaker's turn [TS]

  into them and I said the speaker that I [TS]

  said the speaker grill be poking out [TS]

  understood that would be exposed so yeah [TS]

  I mean it's just like just handling this [TS]

  having it in a pocket with lynn it i [TS]

  mean this thing like i am very careful [TS]

  with my stuff most of most of my [TS]

  electronics that i own and use after i'm [TS]

  done using them look brand-new they like [TS]

  they look totally unused they have [TS]

  nowhere on the whatsoever this phone [TS]

  I've had for two days and already [TS]

  scratched so i will say if you are the [TS]

  kind of person who thinks you know what [TS]

  I can get a jet black and just be really [TS]

  careful with it [TS]

  no that's not going to happen so you [TS]

  have you really you have to be okay with [TS]

  it scratching if you're going to get it [TS]

  but and you know if like me if you are [TS]

  so you know i never by the by the feel [TS]

  of it that you don't care then it might [TS]

  be right for you and I also would say I [TS]

  i do think that you are probably right [TS]

  this is probably gonna be a one-off I [TS]

  don't expect this color to return in [TS]

  future years simply because i think i [TS]

  think it is probably very you know [TS]

  expensive and and more complex them to [TS]

  do and also i think that the wages is [TS]

  not going to be received well I think [TS]

  people will look back and I kind of like [TS]

  the scratchy ipod nanos and analyze [TS]

  their part of the steel backs as the [TS]

  only that bag is the scratch upon that [TS]

  was on the front that's sure it wasn't a [TS]

  problem but yeah but like even if they [TS]

  can improve that's the wild-card like i [TS]

  said i I really don't feel like they're [TS]

  going to this exact back again but at [TS]

  this aesthetic I think his legs right [TS]

  and so if they can improve the process [TS]

  somehow i come up with some super hard [TS]

  clearcoat that resists scratching and [TS]

  doesn't look like a disaster like [TS]

  ceramic I think as aesthetic Lee it [TS]

  would be really nice i mean obviously [TS]

  it's probably also expensive and you [TS]

  know somebody can you mad like if they [TS]

  had like bright candy colors under that [TS]

  kind of gloss that's a good-looking [TS]

  phone [TS]

  yeah i mean i would even say like like a [TS]

  white one [TS]

  what let's not go crazy white on the [TS]

  back and black on the front there we go [TS]

  yeah business in the front party in the [TS]

  back like if they had if they had like a [TS]

  white glossy finish [TS]

  I don't know I don't know much about I [TS]

  don't know anything about this process I [TS]

  don't know whether it's possible to do [TS]

  in different colors or whether whether [TS]

  this can only be done in black because [TS]

  of some some components using it but if [TS]

  it could be done if the same finish [TS]

  could be done in white [TS]

  I bet the scratch it would be very hard [TS]

  to see so you heard it here first kids [TS]

  John siracusa would like a mullet foam [TS]

  like I was just identifying as the thing [TS]

  that can be made [TS]

  I'm just messing around the home button [TS]

  hashtag Mike was wrong the correct [TS]

  setting is the middle setting [TS]

  additionally i hated hated this home [TS]

  button for six hours and now I freaking [TS]

  love it [TS]

  I'm i don't know why i love it to be [TS]

  completely honest with you but it just [TS]

  feels so much more crisp then the home [TS]

  button on my iPad or even my success [TS]

  which i still have four for at least a [TS]

  little while I grab the ipad or if I [TS]

  just pick up the success for whatever [TS]

  reason those feel just positively mushy [TS]

  by comparison and I don't care for it [TS]

  all at all [TS]

  I feel like I don't like double-clicking [TS]

  for lack of a better word the home [TS]

  button to bring up multitasking i feel [TS]

  like i can do it quicker and it's more [TS]

  reliable on the new phone i have guided [TS]

  access enabled so if I really need a [TS]

  break for a minute if declan's in the [TS]

  car or something like that because he [TS]

  hates the car and I want to give him [TS]

  like plex to look at and look at Daniel [TS]

  tiger or sesame street would have you [TS]

  I've got it access ready and waiting to [TS]

  be enabled so he doesn't you know and [TS]

  navigate away from the app I want them [TS]

  to use so a triple tap oftentimes or [TS]

  triple click I would oftentimes fire [TS]

  that accidentally now maybe not often [TS]

  but definitely regularly fire a triple [TS]

  click by accident with physical home [TS]

  buttons i've yet to do that on this one [TS]

  and you know what is stupid as it sounds [TS]

  and I'll be the first to say it's stupid [TS]

  i just kind of like being [TS]

  on the home screen and mash away this [TS]

  home button and feeling the taptic [TS]

  engine I've really think it feels a lot [TS]

  better and crisper you're gonna $215 [TS]

  frigid cube i do it's nothing like that [TS]

  clicking your pen caps and uh your home [TS]

  button [TS]

  yep that's right now I really do love [TS]

  this thing I think one is too gentle i [TS]

  think three is just overbearing I think [TS]

  he was just right it was weird at first [TS]

  because it is very clearly not the same [TS]

  feel as a physical button as many people [TS]

  have said particularly those who have [TS]

  review units it's not the same as the [TS]

  trackpad which despite what Marco [TS]

  believes does feel like an actual click [TS]

  it is done you cannot discern the [TS]

  difference so much your market 100 no [TS]

  wait wait wait wait i never said the [TS]

  fourth text wrap it doesn't feel like [TS]

  the cliq I said it feels like a bad [TS]

  button and it was a good button and you [TS]

  can totally tell and you can totally [TS]

  tell the difference don't tell me you [TS]

  can tell it's a yeah it's a pretty it's [TS]

  pretty apparent difference the force [TS]

  touch might be good enough for lots of [TS]

  people but that doesn't mean it's not [TS]

  worse [TS]

  it's definitely much more convincing [TS]

  than the reports that because you if but [TS]

  it's like you said last time if you [TS]

  didn't tell someone especially someone [TS]

  who's not marker the most this wasn't a [TS]

  button they wouldn't figure it out but [TS]

  once you tell them like oh yeah I can [TS]

  see that [TS]

  and I and I said the trackpad does move [TS]

  I wonder if the home button has anyone [TS]

  gone in macro on that and see does the [TS]

  home button movie the track that moves [TS]

  just because it's a big thing and it [TS]

  flexes but i wonder if the home button [TS]

  moves at all i don't think it's us and I [TS]

  will say to like I actually find that [TS]

  the fourth section but on the seven less [TS]

  crappy then the then that the first [TS]

  extract I actually i think even give me [TS]

  another couple days I'll probably even [TS]

  like this [TS]

  however I be using a force touch magic [TS]

  trackpad for a while now and I still [TS]

  don't like it's click like that the [TS]

  force touch on the track pads i think [TS]

  stays mediocre but the one on the phone [TS]

  I think you could use a pretty fast and [TS]

  I just I really don't mind in fact like [TS]

  the track but be that as it may I really [TS]

  like the home button setting number two [TS]

  is the right setting the best way to [TS]

  describe it which I'm stealing from [TS]

  either pans rain or snow or somebody is [TS]

  that it feels like the whole bottom of [TS]

  the phone [TS]

  not that it's being depressed but it's [TS]

  the whole bottom of the phone that's [TS]

  reacting and that's very unnatural as [TS]

  compared [TS]

  to a physical button and that's why I [TS]

  think I hated it so much at first [TS]

  because it's as though the whole bottom [TS]

  of the phone is not really depressing [TS]

  but like i said a second ago reacting [TS]

  but I've come to really like it and it's [TS]

  it almost feels more obvious even its [TS]

  setting to that yes i have engaged the [TS]

  home button so i freakin love this thing [TS]

  the one downside that i found which I [TS]

  almost never run into but it is striking [TS]

  the difference is if you have the phone [TS]

  sitting on say a table or something like [TS]

  that and then press the home button it [TS]

  feels very very weird [TS]

  either you don't feel it at all or is [TS]

  this is particularly on like a hard [TS]

  surface a surface so like I have a glass [TS]

  desk so putting on my my mouse pad which [TS]

  I have to use like an animal that feels [TS]

  about the same but on the glass you can [TS]

  barely feel the darn thing moving at all [TS]

  that's which is super super weird and I [TS]

  don't care for that at all but it's so [TS]

  rare that i have the things sitting on a [TS]

  flat surface like that in pressing the [TS]

  home button that doesn't really bother [TS]

  me but that is something worth noting [TS]

  and as a friend of the show my curly had [TS]

  also noted the ring that that kind of [TS]

  enables touch ID is the same thing that [TS]

  enables listening for lack of a better [TS]

  word that you're pressing the home [TS]

  button so if you don't have the right [TS]

  kind of capacitive gloves or if you like [TS]

  put a your shirt between your thumb and [TS]

  the home button you can no longer tap [TS]

  the press the home button which to me [TS]

  isn't a problem at all but it is very [TS]

  peculiar and it makes you realize that [TS]

  this is all just software and hardware [TS]

  trickery [TS]

  yeah actually hit this like it in the [TS]

  like I have next to my bed i have an [TS]

  iphone dock and I've gotten in the habit [TS]

  of like when I wake up in the morning to [TS]

  check the time i will just gonna push my [TS]

  pinky into the home button to just make [TS]

  sure it doesn't unlock the whole phone [TS]

  and everything you want to the clock on [TS]

  the phone and so now I kind of can't it [TS]

  doesn't work very well anymore because [TS]

  I've got in the habit of only pushing a [TS]

  little tiny bit of the home button with [TS]

  my pinky and you know you kind of have [TS]

  to activate that touch ID ring to make [TS]

  it work at all now you have a mechanical [TS]

  clock back here next year bad as you [TS]

  look over to tell you the time [TS]

  no but it wouldn't be lit up whereas the [TS]

  apple watch when it's close to the time [TS]

  you're supposed to wake up [TS]

  he lights up for you in the future [TS]

  radiation can solve that problem [TS]

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  invoice kingdom is also an amazing [TS]

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  infrastructure you should definitely [TS]

  monitors availability and performance [TS]

  all you do is give kingdom a URL to [TS]

  monitor and optional conditions to check [TS]

  for and or you can just have it just [TS]

  check it up and when they find an outage [TS]

  you are immediately alerted so you can [TS]

  fix the problem before becomes a much [TS]

  bigger and more costly outage you should [TS]

  not be learning that your site is down [TS]

  from people on Twitter you should be the [TS]

  first know about it with kingdom and [TS]

  then you can fix it before your [TS]

  customers actually see it [TS]

  check it out today go to pingdom calm / [TS]

  ATP for a 14-day free trial and get [TS]

  twenty percent off your first invoice [TS]

  the offer code ATP thank you very much [TS]

  the kingdom for sponsoring our show [TS]

  speakers the speakers on the new phones [TS]

  are indeed louder they are in stereo [TS]

  which I haven't watched very much on my [TS]

  new phone in terms of like video or what [TS]

  have you but I have had it playing some [TS]

  podcasts from time to time and oh man [TS]

  these speakers are so much louder and i [TS]

  love that have you used yours much Marco [TS]

  not not a ton but i have used them and [TS]

  test them here in there and yeah it's [TS]

  better it's it's not i wouldn't say it's [TS]

  like twice as loud perceptually and [TS]

  maybe in certain conditions that might [TS]

  be that you know they they're claiming [TS]

  that being twice as loud might have been [TS]

  like a decibel level measurement we're [TS]

  like a kinda it can be it can be fuck [TS]

  you anyway it is definitely noticeably [TS]

  louder and have better quality and [TS]

  that's what's important [TS]

  I also i I'm pleasantly surprised that [TS]

  like I thought because the speaker it [TS]

  there isn't one fires out the top edge [TS]

  the HS the earpiece that that you need [TS]

  that speaks during phone calls that [TS]

  thing is now just loud enough to be a [TS]

  speaker yeah and so it's not so you have [TS]

  that one firing straight ahead and you [TS]

  have the one on the bottom where it's [TS]

  always been firing kind of down like you [TS]

  know away from the phone so these are [TS]

  fire two different angles and so I [TS]

  thought it would sound weird but it [TS]

  doesn't really it just it just sounds [TS]

  like the whole phone is making one loud [TS]

  sound output which is exactly what you [TS]

  want so I'm actually very pleasantly [TS]

  surprised by its its but it's you know I [TS]

  expected it to be like useful for [TS]

  utility point of view just like getting [TS]

  more standard of the phone but that it [TS]

  actually is is better quality than I [TS]

  expected [TS]

  yeah really great two thumbs up the air [TS]

  pods obviously none of us have them yet [TS]

  when they were first announced I thought [TS]

  yeah that's clever looks cool but yeah [TS]

  but a few different things have happened [TS]

  over the last few days that have made me [TS]

  think you know I think I do want those [TS]

  and very much in the watch style [TS]

  first of all I've been using lightning [TS]

  your earbuds from time to time [TS]

  and I really think in that having the [TS]

  cables come off of them really does pull [TS]

  on them enough to try to pull them out [TS]

  of my ears and I really think not having [TS]

  the weight of the cables would make a [TS]

  huge difference [TS]

  additionally there's been a handful of [TS]

  times that I've or even perhaps most of [TS]

  the time I've only had one of the [TS]

  earbuds in because I want to be able to [TS]

  hear deck win or you know maybe I'm he's [TS]

  asleep and errands out and I just need [TS]

  to make sure that i can hear the monitor [TS]

  what have you for whatever reason i've [TS]

  only had one in and not having the the [TS]

  phone or perhaps the earbuds whatever [TS]

  force mono when only one of them is in i [TS]

  can't say i've noticed it but i can just [TS]

  think to myself man it would be nice if [TS]

  I knew that everything that I could hear [TS]

  i was hearing through just one of the [TS]

  air pods and additionally there's been a [TS]

  handful of times when I like go with go [TS]

  for a walk with Declan where it would be [TS]

  kind of nice to be able to just not have [TS]

  wires or maybe even leave my phone at [TS]

  home and just use my watch and have [TS]

  these things just magically transfer [TS]

  from the phone to the watch would be [TS]

  really nice so at first i thought yeah I [TS]

  don't want any inch I don't really have [TS]

  any interest in their pods but within [TS]

  just a few days I've convinced myself [TS]

  that's going on the Christmas and [TS]

  Hanukkah list this year even if the [TS]

  sound quality ends up being no not [TS]

  meaningfully better than the regular [TS]

  earpods the wire ones which means not [TS]

  very good i think a lot of people are [TS]

  going to buy and use these things and [TS]

  like them just for the utility factor i [TS]

  mean that's the thing with bluetooth [TS]

  audio like a many ways as we discussed [TS]

  as in many ways bluetooth headphones are [TS]

  worse than wired headphones or at least [TS]

  more complicated you know best but it [TS]

  really is a lot more comedian and them [TS]

  in a number of big ways in practice and [TS]

  that's why i like that that's why am i [TS]

  walking headphones are these terrible [TS]

  sounding little tiny relatively [TS]

  inexpensive sennheiser bluetooth ones [TS]

  because i'm listening to podcast the [TS]

  quality doesn't matter very much and [TS]

  it's just so much more convenient with [TS]

  bluetooth headphones that have no wire [TS]

  and have nice clean nice big button [TS]

  controls on the earcup and so I think [TS]

  people are going to feel similarly about [TS]

  the air pods where you know if you [TS]

  really want like big thumping [TS]

  based on everything from music you're [TS]

  probably go with Beats or some other you [TS]

  know headphones that's more for that [TS]

  purpose and tuned for that but if you [TS]

  just want like basically headphones as [TS]

  you as like a utilitarian object that [TS]

  we'll just serve that they're primarily [TS]

  serving a functional role for you and [TS]

  you don't really care as much about the [TS]

  quality that I think they're gonna be [TS]

  really great again my only my only [TS]

  reservation about them is how in [TS]

  community will it really be in practice [TS]

  to not have a lot of remote control [TS]

  option to not have the volume control to [TS]

  not have the sikh buttons you know and [TS]

  in practice i think most people won't [TS]

  care because most people could only ever [TS]

  use the volume control and play pause [TS]

  most people didn't never even knew that [TS]

  you could like you know double-click the [TS]

  triple click or click and hold that [TS]

  middle button to do other things like [TS]

  the seeking and stuff so it you know [TS]

  that might end up not mattering at all [TS]

  to most buyers of it but to get like i [TS]

  said i think you know people who were [TS]

  aware of the remote control gesture i [TS]

  think it's gonna be a notable omission [TS]

  but otherwise they do seem like they're [TS]

  going to be pretty compelling and I [TS]

  might get a pair just you know as I just [TS]

  to see like can I get away with this [TS]

  because there are situations where i [TS]

  would probably want those like my my [TS]

  walking bluetooth headphones i can't put [TS]

  those in my pocket [TS]

  they don't fit in in pockets but these I [TS]

  can like put a little girl case which i [TS]

  think their case does fit and pockets [TS]

  little thicker but does fit right [TS]

  it's not like that isn't like a dental [TS]

  floss size roughly got ya [TS]

  looks like the tic tacs or something so [TS]

  it's definitely pocket the ball so like [TS]

  they're there are lots of occasions [TS]

  where i would like to have headphones [TS]

  with me but I I don't have a pocket to [TS]

  devote to them so i would love to have [TS]

  these for those kind of situations if i [TS]

  can wear them without pain so that time [TS]

  will tell on that French but uh but they [TS]

  they are probably going to be very [TS]

  practical and very compelling in in [TS]

  real-world use we're going to meet your [TS]

  spreader so you can start a preparing [TS]

  what [TS]

  wow that's a problem right here too [TS]

  small they don't fit in there [TS]

  honestly I don't know what the problem [TS]

  is I it they seemed acting my ears are [TS]

  not just are not too small but just like [TS]

  don't have exactly the right type of [TS]

  shape for them to sit properly i don't [TS]

  know i don't know what the problem is [TS]

  whatever the problem is they don't sit [TS]

  very well in there [TS]

  it hurts those things they call that you [TS]

  put a shoe trees you know things are [TS]

  holding open into your trees [TS]

  yeah your tree shaped like your pods [TS]

  examples next big product the world will [TS]

  conform to our bods we measured a [TS]

  thousand years [TS]

  get in line and he couldn't you just [TS]

  take the wired one to come in the box [TS]

  for free just shove it in there all the [TS]

  time I don't know if this still it's not [TS]

  open for debate whether they're exactly [TS]

  the same shape as the wireless ones [TS]

  goodness [TS]

  alright well I believe that's it for [TS]

  today right I think so [TS]

  alright thank you very much to our three [TS]

  sponsors betterment linode and kingdom [TS]

  we will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  death was accidental [TS]

  jaundice [TS]

  I searched Margo and Casey would [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  you can find the show know today [TS]

  DP died and it for twitter follow them [TS]

  yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  before Allah I have been barking up this [TS]

  tree so many times and Marco refuses to [TS]

  listen [TS]

  oh I am yes I know ya know like that [TS]

  there was one time where like in two [TS]

  thousand six or so I did try one of the [TS]

  like entry-level I think it might have [TS]

  been one of the sure ones or the demonic [TS]

  everyone wanted but I didn't like an [TS]

  entry-level IEM with like a few [TS]

  different various tips on it and I had [TS]

  to return aight i could not even that [TS]

  like it was just it hurt [TS]

  I couldn't wear it with custom old ones [TS]

  everyone especially for some group into [TS]

  your ear and butt but I feel like the [TS]

  custom mold like first of all you know [TS]

  that I think the cheapest customer ones [TS]

  are like seven hundred dollars ish like [TS]

  somewhere in that price range [TS]

  oh yeah for you that's so damn expensive [TS]

  mr. i spend gazillions of dollars on [TS]

  headphones on a daily basis but it to [TS]

  spend seven hundred dollars on something [TS]

  that i will almost certainly not be able [TS]

  to use and that I can't return or resell [TS]

  it that that is that is not a grease and [TS]

  what I understand where you're coming [TS]

  from it which is why i'm only going to [TS]

  slightly beat you up but the whole point [TS]

  of custom poured iems is that they are [TS]

  built for Marco Arment they are perfect [TS]

  for Marco Arment because they literally [TS]

  put group in your years to make a mold [TS]

  of owners I know like this is it is by [TS]

  designed by definition perfect that is [TS]

  the whole point but what if the problem [TS]

  isn't the shape what the problem is like [TS]

  my ears too sensitive there or whatever [TS]

  the problems like crap in his ears [TS]

  it's like they're perfectly if you want [TS]

  something that perfectly wedges itself [TS]

  in your ear canal little perfectly fit [TS]

  in your ear canals like no I don't want [TS]

  ya something filling up my ear canal I [TS]

  want them to be air in my ear canal and [TS]

  maybe a little bit of wax and some Paris [TS]

  mold like I I find I I mean people who [TS]

  love and can use IM more power to you i [TS]

  find them a little gross and and I and I [TS]

  also like the amount of isolation they [TS]

  provide is not usually something I want [TS]

  like if I'm not walking [TS]

  that's actually that's a fair play i [TS]

  don't want full isolation like like my [TS]

  my little stupid sennheiser ones are [TS]

  these you know relatively small on-ear [TS]

  headphones so they are closed back but [TS]

  there's not much ceiling that's actually [TS]

  happening [TS]

  so I'm not very isolated from the world [TS]

  so i can hear things like traffic which [TS]

  is pretty important when I'm walking so [TS]

  special you know i'm often walking in [TS]

  the street with my dog [TS]

  so you know to be able to hear cars [TS]

  coming is fairly important see that i [TS]

  have no argument for but the oh I don't [TS]

  think it'll feel good just go try it [TS]

  just lights don't have to complain and [TS]

  Mona 24 the restaurant if you want to [TS]

  pitch him you want to get him to use [TS]

  these things you gotta go to the audio [TS]

  file and say people say that the real [TS]

  best-sounding your phones are the ones [TS]

  that Jam themselves up inside your ear [TS]

  like little heels that's the way I got [TS]

  fucked up again I've never I've never be [TS]

  no benefited from this but people do say [TS]

  that I ems are really amazing and like [TS]

  the quality you can get a good pair is [TS]

  really something so that's what's gonna [TS]

  bring you over the edge eventually if [TS]

  anything ever does it's not going to be [TS]

  the idea that you know that it will be [TS]

  better than the bluetooth bunch of using [TS]

  yeah i did and i i'm i'm predicting now [TS]

  that i think will switch to the earpods [TS]

  if they in any way managed to stay in [TS]

  your ear so they don't obviously then [TS]

  whatever you ask in the test but because [TS]

  i feel like i'm just gonna be so much [TS]

  more convenient than those big like my [TS]

  type [TS]

  I'm one of those people who would feel [TS]

  weird walking around outside walking the [TS]

  dog with big headphones on and all yours [TS]

  are big they're not a bigger than the [TS]

  bigger than your pots put it that way [TS]

  right some somehow in my world I feel ok [TS]

  with earbuds going on a walk I don't [TS]

  feel ok with the thing that goes over my [TS]

  head anyway I think once you you know [TS]

  use the potty mostly I find the earpods [TS]

  I think you're probably look a little [TS]

  bit dumb her like I do [TS]

  they're a little dumb i will grant you [TS]

  but but they're certainly less [TS]

  conspicuous different from a distance [TS]

  than the big beyond your years [TS]

  yeah and I think probably you'll be able [TS]

  to hear more with your product someone [TS]

  who wears your pods everyday when [TS]

  walking around and stuff i think they [TS]

  don't do much noise isolation and all [TS]

  like I think you'll be able to hear more [TS]

  traffic which i think is a good thing [TS]

  because you really shouldn't be walking [TS]

  around on roads with your phones on [TS]

  no I've actually why would actually want [TS]

  that or just your just do one here and [TS]

  let you just do a podcast just one here [TS]

  was a mono something you can't do with a [TS]

  headset right [TS]

  I do it all the time take one off just [TS]

  stick next to my ear in my head you know [TS]

  we look good for even more ridiculous [TS]

  still on your head still squishy anyway [TS]

  one here pod and a dog because all you [TS]

  need [TS]

  so earlier today there was a rumor that [TS]

  apple was in talks to buy McLaren who [TS]

  makes supercars and [TS]

  many many other things works works on an [TS]

  f1 team or is an f1 team or whatever [TS]

  strollers strollers different company [TS]

  right at the different company they were [TS]

  going to buy mclaren then they were [TS]

  going to make a stretch to strategic [TS]

  investment in McLaren and then know [TS]

  they're definitely not looking at [TS]

  mclaren no they're not know nobody's [TS]

  looking at us leave us alone [TS]

  so what do we think about this is this [TS]

  thing it doesn't sound like this is the [TS]

  thing but if it was a thing then [TS]

  certainly both companies would be saying [TS]

  oh no that's not a thing [TS]

  so all those mclaren spokesperson [TS]

  official comment obviously apples not [TS]

  commenting well sometimes they doing [TS]

  these things to deny them to the McLaren [TS]

  says we can confirm the McLaren is not [TS]

  in discussions with apple in in respect [TS]

  of any potential investment i don't know [TS]

  who this exercise in respect of is [TS]

  probably somewhere bridges and put any [TS]

  way in respect of any potential [TS]

  investment that doesn't rule out then [TS]

  buying them outright that's just an [TS]

  investment so all they have denied is [TS]

  the investment didn't even bother to [TS]

  deny buying them outright [TS]

  so I feel like this is a bad job from [TS]

  corporate PR if you're going to do the [TS]

  thing where you just deny everything but [TS]

  it's sure not either way obviously it [TS]

  seemed like the goal of PR was no no [TS]

  forget everything you heard it's all bs [TS]

  we just fine go ahead and do that and [TS]

  you know three years later going to be [TS]

  different either way [TS]

  yes deny everything you can't issue a [TS]

  denial that you forget to deny one of [TS]

  the possibilities because now i can't [TS]

  help but read that and say oh so I guess [TS]

  they're not investing in you they bought [TS]

  you out but maybe setting aside the [TS]

  corporate PR speak my question all this [TS]

  is of all the car companies in the world [TS]

  that Apple is going to buy does it make [TS]

  sense that they would by McLaren [TS]

  obviously Tesla doesn't want them [TS]

  because they're mad at each other and [TS]

  whatever right because that we've talked [TS]

  about that deal in the past like they [TS]

  would be a good fit but that must be it [TS]

  doesn't want to do it and you know it's [TS]

  whatever they they have some bad blood [TS]

  there that marriage doesn't seem like [TS]

  it's gonna happen although we make sense [TS]

  strategically for both companies of a [TS]

  balanced again two cars but mclaren but [TS]

  like should tell me the synergies yeah I [TS]

  don't I mean I don't know anything about [TS]

  mclaren but I i thought the same thing [TS]

  of like you know if if Apple is really [TS]

  making a car and if they really are you [TS]

  know if it's what we expected to be [TS]

  which would be most likely only electric [TS]

  cars [TS]

  slightly for the mass market starting at [TS]

  the high end probably first and then [TS]

  coming down you know over time as they [TS]

  could [TS]

  that's what i'm doing right like it [TS]

  seems like that's why like if you think [TS]

  they would Apple buying the car company [TS]

  if they want to get to the car business [TS]

  it seems like that test was the obvious [TS]

  one to buy because it seems like [TS]

  whatever Apple do in the car business [TS]

  would be very close to what Tesla is [TS]

  already doing in the car business and [TS]

  and they're just be like lots of [TS]

  duplicated effort for Apple to reach [TS]

  more tests already is so or the other [TS]

  angle is the thing that neither Tesla [TS]

  nor apples are good at Tesla is a newish [TS]

  car company they haven't been building [TS]

  cars are very long their rental cars are [TS]

  based on lotus things like an apple has [TS]

  never built the car one of the one of [TS]

  the other investment or strategic [TS]

  partnership or purchase things you do is [TS]

  find a company that has been building [TS]

  cars forever and kind of knows how to do [TS]

  that in the way that has been done in [TS]

  the past a company with car [TS]

  manufacturing experience mass car [TS]

  manufacturing experience that doesn't [TS]

  have that apple doesn't have that so you [TS]

  could also do maybe they go with like a [TS]

  hundred or something because it's like [TS]

  Oh or Toyota or the BMW we keep hearing [TS]

  I'm talking to be in w about things and [TS]

  those companies that do that you know [TS]

  whatever the company's called Magnus [TS]

  tier or whatever that does like the you [TS]

  know that subcontractor for BMW that was [TS]

  kind of deals makes sense to me because [TS]

  it's complimentary apples bring one [TS]

  thing but they don't know how to make a [TS]

  car and that respect [TS]

  Tesla certainly know how to make a car [TS]

  either they're just kind of figuring out [TS]

  as they go along they're doing a good [TS]

  job but they don't have the years and [TS]

  years of experience in terms of like the [TS]

  Toyota assembly line and mass market [TS]

  things [TS]

  mclaren does not make a lot of cars [TS]

  let's be honest they don't know how to [TS]

  write thousands and thousands and [TS]

  thousands of cars [TS]

  yes the only synergy IC is mcLaren has [TS]

  that Apple aesthetic where everything is [TS]

  beautiful and clean and super expensive [TS]

  and that the pictures of the factory are [TS]

  amazing and did you see that a what is [TS]

  that netflix thing it's some supercar [TS]

  thing at apex the story of the supercar [TS]

  something it's on netflix it's a [TS]

  documentary it's so-so but you get to [TS]

  see a lot of shots of the inside of the [TS]

  factories of these various carmakers [TS]

  less so for our because i have a feeling [TS]

  for I didn't want to participate in this [TS]

  at all just kind of a shame but you can [TS]

  kind of tell we couldn't get much access [TS]

  to for anyway [TS]

  everything looks beautiful mclaren car [TS]

  factory [TS]

  looks like you would imagine aplicar [TS]

  factor would look but guess what they're [TS]

  building supercars there they're [TS]

  building cars that cost hundreds of [TS]

  thousands of dollars that is not one the [TS]

  the tree that Apple's barking up and by [TS]

  the way they also have an f1 team and [TS]

  they all do a bunch of other stuff that [TS]

  is not really have any particular [TS]

  synergy with Apple maybe Apple might [TS]

  someday make a car or something really [TS]

  good cars is Apple gonna get the f1 no I [TS]

  feel like we're reaching yeah that's the [TS]

  thing i mean like if Apple were to buy [TS]

  or strategically invest a lot in another [TS]

  car company I would you would expect it [TS]

  to be somebody who makes a lot of cars [TS]

  or who already has the kind of car in [TS]

  development or the kind of skills that [TS]

  apple would be using for things like [TS]

  electric cars mclaren seems to have [TS]

  neither of those you know it's a very [TS]

  different company [TS]

  yeah if i had to put for them you know a [TS]

  company that maybe might be it may I [TS]

  said maybe nissan because they have the [TS]

  leaf project that actual please come [TS]

  here nobody away but now look nice on is [TS]

  a company that needs a lot of design [TS]

  help let's be honest I get a lot of [TS]

  helping every area of making cars at [TS]

  this point they are really lost their [TS]

  way lately [TS]

  yeah but mostly mostly in design choices [TS]

  with it but they do have is a successful [TS]

  electric car that that is already like [TS]

  they already have a lot of the stuff [TS]

  required to do that they have a massive [TS]

  network of factories showrooms dealers [TS]

  service centers parts like they have all [TS]

  the stuff that is hard and they can make [TS]

  lots of cars at reasonable prices like [TS]

  these are all the challenges of like [TS]

  doing a new car company especially a new [TS]

  consumer-focused car company that's [TS]

  that's going to try to sell lots of car [TS]

  so a company maybe not exactly nissan [TS]

  but a company like Nissan would make way [TS]

  more sense to invest in or partner with [TS]

  order to outright by if that was [TS]

  possible that would make way more sense [TS]

  if Apple wants to do what we think [TS]

  they're trying to do then malevolent by [TS]

  Nissan pleased with the car companies i [TS]

  mean i would say you'd be better off [TS]

  buying GM the Nissan that's how bad i [TS]

  think wow that's a lot i would say in in [TS]

  Matt transport this idea in my head what [TS]

  about lotus like one of that 1i have [TS]

  they have design and design [TS]

  aesthetically and chassis design fish [TS]

  I'll apple doesn't need the aesthetic [TS]

  part of it the chassis design sure but [TS]

  the chassis design for sort of these [TS]

  beautiful extremely low volume racing [TS]

  cars that Apple is not making and the [TS]

  lowest cars are lightweight and don't [TS]

  have giant battery packs in them i slept [TS]

  with that being the tesla roadster was [TS]

  effectively lotus elise wasn't it i mean [TS]

  i but Louis didn't put that battery in [TS]

  there a lot of muscle behind the back [TS]

  seat when the thing is like you can look [TS]

  at what Tesla has done in a relatively [TS]

  short time and apple there's no reason [TS]

  why Apple couldn't do the same kinds of [TS]

  things like it [TS]

  the basics of just like making an [TS]

  electric car getting it you know [TS]

  designed built certified safe on the [TS]

  road and getting it into people's hands [TS]

  getting a sales network going getting a [TS]

  charging network going if they're not [TS]

  going to use standards like get all that [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  Tesla did it so Apple could do it to [TS]

  plausibly like Tesla did in a relatively [TS]

  short time you know relative people like [TS]

  Nissan making a relatively short time [TS]

  with a lot of budget constraints that [TS]

  and a lot of like trying to prove the [TS]

  idea first two people and try to get [TS]

  people to even consider an all-electric [TS]

  car and especially a very expensive one [TS]

  so you know Tesla had to do it [TS]

  themselves and they did so at Apple [TS]

  could like there's nothing stopping her [TS]

  from doing it where Apple would need [TS]

  help is in the more mass market stuff so [TS]

  yeah they can make their own chassis [TS]

  they don't they don't need someone else [TS]

  to to make a chassis if they if they [TS]

  feel like it they don't need someone [TS]

  else to do design whatever McLaren's [TS]

  designing Apple would have their own [TS]

  opinions and that you know it's because [TS]

  it's almost like it like if you're [TS]

  buying a house if you're looking at [TS]

  houses to buy and you walk in to one and [TS]

  there's like this but this like a [TS]

  two-year-old you know some nearly brand [TS]

  new kitchen and it's all designed the [TS]

  wrong way but you're just like man like [TS]

  it would be really wasteful to buy this [TS]

  place and to hate this kitchen even [TS]

  because it's brand-new and what you can [TS]

  do like remodel a brand new place that's [TS]

  incredibly wasteful like that's that's [TS]

  bad you know that I think mclaren being [TS]

  involved in the design of the apple cart [TS]

  we have a similar thing like you have an [TS]

  already established highly opinionated [TS]

  design company here that would conflict [TS]

  with whatever Apple want it [TS]

  designed to be so you don't want like [TS]

  two very opinionated people on the same [TS]

  thing for fighting for power that's the [TS]

  same problems that the whole reason why [TS]

  Apple probably will never buy Tesla [TS]

  because like Elon Musk would not let [TS]

  that happen because he doesn't want to [TS]

  have apple come in and tell him what to [TS]

  do he wants to do things his way because [TS]

  he you know he's running the show and [TS]

  he's done pretty well so far all things [TS]

  considered [TS]

  so like he doesn't want to come in and [TS]

  tell them what to do like so if Apple's [TS]

  going to buy or substantially partner [TS]

  with another company is going to have [TS]

  the kind of relationship where the other [TS]

  company will do this stuff Apple sees as [TS]

  boring maybe beneath them or like just [TS]

  really uninteresting and apple will do [TS]

  the stuff that Apple likes to do so [TS]

  software you are designed so the other [TS]

  thing is the notes related to this is [TS]

  this is another story from you know a 10 [TS]

  days or so ago with about a rumor that [TS]

  apple has changed the focus of their car [TS]

  project shifting from emphasis on [TS]

  designing and producing an automobile to [TS]

  building out the underlying technology [TS]

  for an autonomous vehicle that's a quote [TS]

  from this story that will link that was [TS]

  the New York Times actually so yeah it's [TS]

  like hey we're not building a car [TS]

  anymore instead we are whatever-the-hell [TS]

  building out the underlying technology [TS]

  for an autonomous vehicle it makes it [TS]

  sound like they're making like [TS]

  self-driving software but you can't [TS]

  really do that without a target car so [TS]

  I'm not quite sure I mean this is kind [TS]

  of the the trickle out of the rumor that [TS]

  we had been hearing for many months [TS]

  about oh the project tighten the car [TS]

  project has had this big reorg and Big [TS]

  Bob Mansfield's come in and and [TS]

  reshuffle things and so that that seems [TS]

  like I think that's happening but a big [TS]

  reorganize reshuffling I don't we don't [TS]

  know the details and so this is the [TS]

  first trying to pin it down sale really [TS]

  happen is they're shifting the emphasis [TS]

  under the from designing and producing a [TS]

  car that you don't like shift that was [TS]

  like you're making a car you're not [TS]

  making a car you can't accidentally make [TS]

  a car like you know that's that's a [TS]

  pretty big shifts like so are we going [TS]

  to manufacture building sell a metal [TS]

  thing with wheels are we not are we just [TS]

  going to work on like software and [TS]

  either so i don't know i don't know what [TS]

  the hell's going on [TS]

  all i know is this project spend a lot [TS]

  of money and we've talked about it for a [TS]

  long time and there's still no car so [TS]

  chop-chop Apple you got maybe make three [TS]

  more years to show something for this I [TS]

  mean from these stories coming out to it [TS]

  sounds like they're still everything [TS]

  still in a lot of flux so it sounds like [TS]

  whatever Apple is doing is probably not [TS]

  imminent know we always expect like 20 [TS]

  20 but at this point I feel like you [TS]

  have to decide if you're you know you [TS]

  haven't decided whether you're building [TS]

  your car yet I don't see you having a [TS]

  car to sound 2020 like it takes a long [TS]

  time for these things so I don't know [TS]

  what's going to if you're like a [TS]

  restructuring the place and laying off [TS]

  people like now in in late 2016 that's [TS]

  that doesn't bode well for 2020 launch [TS]

  date of a brand-new car like that's a [TS]

  car is a lot harder to ship then other [TS]

  things like it's there's a lot involved [TS]

  here [TS]

  yeah and i can imagine that partner like [TS]

  bringing mclaren back in like that it's [TS]

  not fun because of the the aesthetics [TS]

  are so similar and because you can [TS]

  imagine i'm starting with something [TS]

  expensive it wouldn't be ridiculous for [TS]

  them to partner mclaren would help the [TS]

  manufacturer this electric car that's [TS]

  like Apple and McLaren co-branded [TS]

  high-end like that apple's version of [TS]

  the tesla roadster that's like I don't [TS]

  know I feel like that would just be a [TS]

  weird thing to do but there are [TS]

  synergies here companies do stuff with [TS]

  each other all the time everyone's [TS]

  entitled hybrid systems Volvo's [TS]

  reselling its self-driving stuff people [TS]

  using transmissions from all the entire [TS]

  fleet of part sellers like CF and [TS]

  everything that the supply parts of the [TS]

  entire industry like in the car world [TS]

  it's not as if there are these islands [TS]

  that make our so I think anybody BMW all [TS]

  these rumors you've heard apples been [TS]

  talking to BWW ever would totally be [TS]

  willing to partner with apple and any [TS]

  kind of thing that they want to do [TS]

  related to cars [TS]

  I just keep going back to Apple Design [TS]

  about what do you want to do because [TS]

  there's lots of car companies that will [TS]

  partner with you in various ways this [TS]

  probably car companies that will let you [TS]

  buy them probably including these on [TS]

  because you know I don't think mclaren [TS]

  would let the bottoms out there and [TS]

  hurting for money at this point but [TS]

  there are so many possibilities albums [TS]

  needs to decide what it is they want to [TS]

  do because it's fine to waffle and [TS]

  secrecy but at this point the car [TS]

  project is practically an open secret [TS]

  even Tim Cook can't help but like [TS]

  hinting at it and if you have nothing to [TS]

  show for that five years from now like [TS]

  that in one respect like it's good that [TS]

  Apple didn't ship something crappy but [TS]

  another respect that's a hell of a moon [TS]

  like its find out of products on cancel [TS]

  the one they don't work out but allowing [TS]

  a project that's assuming this much [TS]

  money to go on for you know five or ten [TS]

  years like a certain point it's not [TS]

  going to be you know it's sunk cost [TS]

  fallacy is making me not want to cancel [TS]

  and canceling it may still be the right [TS]

  thing to do but canceling at five years [TS]

  earlier would have been the writer think [TS]

  to do so to go back a step [TS]

  when we were discussing who could Apple [TS]

  by that was the answer [TS]

  let me throw a really really peculiar [TS]

  idea to you about BMW because according [TS]

  I'd like i don't i don't really [TS]

  understand how all this business stuff [TS]

  works because I actually you know doom [TS]

  do work for a living instead of just you [TS]

  know running around talking about stuff [TS]

  but the owners BMW are Stefan or stefan [TS]

  quandt Susan Suzanne clottin who i [TS]

  believe is also a quant by birth the two [TS]

  of them own fifty percent of the company [TS]

  public owns the other fifty percent if [TS]

  you could convince at least one percent [TS]

  of the public to sell with that work and [TS]

  I mean the BMW market cap as per google [TS]

  is 50 billion so could it be done I mean [TS]

  they have the money if the problems by [TS]

  those big companies like the same thing [TS]

  with the f1 team it's not it's like if [TS]

  you by BMW the feel like the only way [TS]

  that's gonna fly is if you buy it with [TS]

  the intention to continue for at least [TS]

  the short-term continued being BMW which [TS]

  means continuing to sell cars and no [TS]

  regular non electric cars and hybrid [TS]

  cars and developed like if you're not [TS]

  gonna do that if you're buying them to [TS]

  say okay and all existing BMW lines are [TS]

  cancelled like you just killed half the [TS]

  value of the company and then the [TS]

  question is does Apple want to continue [TS]

  running BMW as BMW as like a claris type [TS]

  thing like a wholly-owned subsidiary [TS]

  that your content to continue to follow [TS]

  BMWs plan for future car slowly [TS]

  transitioning to electric doing all that [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  well in the meantime also doing some [TS]

  apple ii think it's much better and much [TS]

  simpler when you can buy companies that [TS]

  like apples all the time these little [TS]

  companies that you can entirely consumed [TS]

  and say whatever the hell you're working [TS]

  on before that's great and everything [TS]

  but we are either taking the technology [TS]

  from it or just taking the employees or [TS]

  just like it's going to transform and [TS]

  come out as an apple product [TS]

  the products you were making before are [TS]

  gone even if we use like the color [TS]

  technology the people whatever you have [TS]

  just become part of Apple you can't do [TS]

  it tmw can't buy them and say forget [TS]

  about all those cars that you're making [TS]

  before no one will ever see them again [TS]

  from now on we just take you and all [TS]

  your expertise and and factories and [TS]

  people and designers and we'll make an [TS]

  apple cart i think that doesn't fly [TS]

  because it destroys too much value [TS]

  that's currently in BMW [TS]

  I mean that's fair but they took beats [TS]

  and beats still largely beats isn't it I [TS]

  mean I don't feel that yeah that's the [TS]

  clearest thing wholly-owned subsidiary [TS]

  with its own brand but that's that's a [TS]

  pretty big exception and that is be [TS]

  still the biggest acquisition it might [TS]

  be i would assume anyway that's a that's [TS]

  a weird one we talked about at the time [TS]

  do they get the state beat through the [TS]

  big mammals headphones they stay beats [TS]

  but I think continuing to sell [TS]

  headphones is much easier fit than apple [TS]

  saying we want to buy this company that [TS]

  makes a whole line of cars sure and [TS]

  continue to sell the whole line of cars [TS]

  like it's not as of apple bought beats [TS]

  an apple had been making its own line of [TS]

  beats like headphones for years and then [TS]

  continue to sell both of them like it [TS]

  didn't just didn't have headphones like [TS]

  that and now it doesn't and it's brandon [TS]

  his beats and Clarence's the counter [TS]

  example where they spun off [TS]

  quote-unquote this company to make all [TS]

  these things and it just kind of [TS]

  withered on the vine is still out there [TS]

  I think but it never really it was never [TS]

  really allowed to fly free and nor was [TS]

  it like supported by the apple [TS]

  mothership in a way that could make it [TS]

  really succeed i think also mean the big [TS]

  reason why wouldn't I BMW is that BMW is [TS]

  the anti apple their cars are full of [TS]

  buttons there just buttons for [TS]

  everything there's buttons everywhere [TS]

  there's physical knobs and buttons [TS]

  sometimes is not a button to sink the [TS]

  right-left climate control here [TS]

  yeah goodness [TS]