Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:15 ◼   ► Software, firmware, situation, update.

00:00:18 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:23 ◼   ► Steven Hackett, Myke Federica, connected.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Hello, what's up? What's up? How are you? Pretty patient, polite. What are you doing?

00:00:47 ◼   ► No. I don't care.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

00:00:48 ◼   ► Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

00:01:18 ◼   ► by our friend Federico Vatici. What's up? Hey buddy. Hi. Hi, how are you? I'm pretty

00:01:25 ◼   ► good. It's good information to know. Pretty good. Yeah. We have some follow-up and we

00:01:32 ◼   ► should start with the music you heard at the beginning of the show. It was a little bit

00:01:36 ◼   ► different this week. Myke, do you want to explain what we played as our intro? Last

00:01:40 ◼   ► week on the show, well after the show, which by the way you can listen live, we recorded

00:01:46 ◼   ► this show live, what time is it in America? It is 1 p.m. Eastern. 1 p.m. Eastern or 6

00:01:53 ◼   ► p.m. in London, 7 p.m. in Rome. We record every week on Wednesdays. You can listen live

00:02:01 ◼   ► at relay.fm/live or even better you can listen live directly in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:02:07 ◼   ► So if you're a Relay FM member you can listen and chat along as we go. And we were looking

00:02:12 ◼   ► at our titles as we do every week because our listeners suggest titles and then we pick

00:02:15 ◼   ► from one. And we liked the title of last week's episode, which was, what was it called?

00:02:22 ◼   ► Software Firmware Situation Update.

00:02:24 ◼   ► There you go. Software Firmware Situation Update. Where that was just a sentence that

00:02:28 ◼   ► Stephen said. He said during the show, "Software Firmware Situation Update."

00:02:31 ◼   ► It's not really a... Calling that a sentence is nice to me.

00:02:34 ◼   ► Well, you just said it. Like, you know, okay, you said it's like, "The Software Firmware

00:02:38 ◼   ► Situation Update." Or something like that, right? And when it was written down as a title,

00:02:43 ◼   ► of us thought, I don't remember who thought it looked funny because it looked like the

00:02:50 ◼   ► Daft Punk song, "Stronger, Better, Faster, Something." What was that song called? I'm

00:02:56 ◼   ► terrible at this today. This shouldn't have been given to me.

00:02:58 ◼   ► "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger." Thank you. "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger."

00:03:01 ◼   ► You didn't have your coffee today, did you? I just had it, so it's yet to kick.

00:03:05 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. Also, it's going to be fun in 10 minutes over here.

00:03:08 ◼   ► In about 15 minutes or so. 15? Okay.

00:03:10 ◼   ► The Japes will return, right? But we've got to wait for that.

00:03:13 ◼   ► So we were making fun of the fact that it looked like the Daft Punk song.

00:03:17 ◼   ► So that was why we titled the episode with the commas.

00:03:20 ◼   ► We added the commas and then Carter

00:03:23 ◼   ► created the musical version

00:03:26 ◼   ► of that title with some additional clips in it as well.

00:03:30 ◼   ► So that was very good.

00:03:31 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes to Carter's creation

00:03:33 ◼   ► in case you want to check it out for yourself.

00:03:35 ◼   ► Maybe download it as a ringtone or something. I don't know.

00:03:38 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a very, very, very good remix.

00:03:40 ◼   ► We, we thoroughly, uh, encourage all kinds of, uh, fan artwork, creations and music

00:03:48 ◼   ► creations.

00:03:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:49 ◼   ► Tattoos, whatever.

00:03:50 ◼   ► Fanfiction.

00:03:52 ◼   ► If that's your thing, you know, if you want to, if you want to do that, you can

00:03:56 ◼   ► connect to the fanfiction.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:58 ◼   ► Whatever, man.

00:03:59 ◼   ► There's going to be a lot of, uh, muting from me today because I'm using a

00:04:02 ◼   ► mechanical keyboard because yesterday, uh, I was on a zoom call and I want to explain

00:04:07 ◼   ► to you kind of how I have my general… Where is this going? How can we talk from fan fiction

00:04:12 ◼   ► to mechanical… Well because I just typed something very quickly to put into the show

00:04:16 ◼   ► notes and I'm concerned that it might make a noise because I was on a Zoom call yesterday.

00:04:21 ◼   ► It was like one of those like not a meeting but like a more hangout-y Zoom call, right?

00:04:25 ◼   ► You know? Yeah. And it was encouraged that like, you know, this is cool. So like, you

00:04:29 ◼   ► know, we're all hanging out so maybe bring a beer. So I had a beer with me and where

00:04:34 ◼   ► sitting right now, I have my notebook in front of me, my keyboard behind that, then I have my mouse

00:04:41 ◼   ► and my trackpad to the right, and then I have two coasters to the right of that. At the moment is my

00:04:45 ◼   ► empty coffee cup, which by the way it's happening right now, I'm feeling it kicking, and my bottle

00:04:51 ◼   ► of water, they sit on the coasters. And I thought to myself, I want to be sipping from the beer more,

00:04:55 ◼   ► so I'm going to bring the coaster to the left of the mouse and put the beer on it. So I did that.

00:05:01 ◼   ► 20 seconds later, I knocked the beer into my keyboard.

00:05:04 ◼   ► Like it was I put it down.

00:05:06 ◼   ► I moved my arm. I moved my back, moved it back, and it just went everywhere.

00:05:10 ◼   ► So it filled the keyboard with beer and then picked up the keyboard.

00:05:14 ◼   ► Then the beer spilled on me.

00:05:16 ◼   ► This is all happening while on a video call.

00:05:18 ◼   ► I'm trying to pretend like nothing's going on.

00:05:20 ◼   ► It's like a whole big thing.

00:05:21 ◼   ► So I have now ordered another Microsoft sculpt ergonomic keyboard.

00:05:24 ◼   ► That thing saw about six years of use.

00:05:26 ◼   ► So, you know, it was kind of getting to the point that like

00:05:29 ◼   ► it needed to be replaced because it was gross. You know how keyboards just get gross over

00:05:33 ◼   ► time? So I have today the Keychron K6, which is a mechanical keyboard in front of me.

00:05:39 ◼   ► Let's hear it. Let's hear it. Put the mic down to it.

00:05:42 ◼   ► Okay.

00:05:43 ◼   ► [Mute sounds]

00:05:49 ◼   ► Pretty good.

00:05:50 ◼   ► Yep. So there's going to be a lot of muting from me today as I have things to show notes

00:05:54 ◼   ► so you don't have to edit me out.

00:05:56 ◼   ► Oh, you forget that I strip silence. It won't be a problem.

00:05:58 ◼   ► Oh, well then I'm gonna go wild then.

00:06:01 ◼   ► I still don't understand fully. So you just hang out on Zoom and you drink in front of

00:06:04 ◼   ► other people on Zoom?

00:06:05 ◼   ► No, it was like a collection of people getting together to talk about topics. It was like

00:06:13 ◼   ► we would have had dinner.

00:06:14 ◼   ► That's a podcast.

00:06:15 ◼   ► No, we, okay, so this particular group of people, we would have been having dinner together,

00:06:20 ◼   ► but we can't do that, right?

00:06:21 ◼   ► Is it like a town hall meeting?

00:06:23 ◼   ► Let's call it. I mean, if that's going to help you so we can move on, then yes, it was

00:06:28 ◼   ► a town hall meeting. I just need to visualize what is the purpose of this call. I can't

00:06:35 ◼   ► say right now, I'll tell you later. Wait, were you on Chatroulette? Can you imagine?

00:06:42 ◼   ► I wonder if that's happening, I mean that's gotta be happening right? So you had a town

00:06:45 ◼   ► hall on Zoom and you were drinking beer and you spilled beer all over the place. Into

00:06:49 ◼   ► a keyboard, yeah. So now that keyboard is dead and I have a mechanical keyboard in front

00:06:55 ◼   ► would be now which makes more noise. And what do you think is your lesson there? Not to

00:06:59 ◼   ► do these town halls on Zoom anymore or not to drink during Zoom calls? No, just don't

00:07:02 ◼   ► disrupt my very clearly internalized layout of my desk. Because by moving the beer, I

00:07:08 ◼   ► knocked it over immediately. So I just need to keep the beer on the coaster where the

00:07:13 ◼   ► coaster lives. Don't move it, you know? That's what I've learned. The lessons don't be like

00:07:18 ◼   ► Casey. That's a lesson for the ages. I learned that one a long time ago. It's completely

00:07:22 ◼   ► related to any water-based thing. Okay. So there you go. But still, why did fanfiction

00:07:33 ◼   ► make you think of this? Oh, it didn't. As I said fanfiction, I typed something and then

00:07:39 ◼   ► was like "Oh no, you can hear that!" Oh, okay. I was still waiting for the punchline, I guess.

00:07:45 ◼   ► They were completely unrelated except to me. In my life they were related because I was

00:07:51 ◼   ► whilst talking adding something to the show notes which made noise.

00:07:54 ◼   ► Now you understand, now you understand, thank you.

00:07:57 ◼   ► I appreciate that you understand. I'm surprised that you do but I'm also happy.

00:08:02 ◼   ► I was thinking about some of our past titles of our show and thinking about which ones

00:08:07 ◼   ► would make good fan fiction. I think 287 wins, Rub-a-Dub-Dub my friend. Just saying, that's

00:08:12 ◼   ► probably the place to start. Geez, Steven, that was not... that was...

00:08:17 ◼   ► Wow, all right, cool. So send, if you do write anything, please send it by email to stephen@relay.fm.

00:08:27 ◼   ► That's with a "ph".

00:08:29 ◼   ► Poor Stephen.

00:08:31 ◼   ► He'll definitely circulate it to us. If you send it to me in Federico, it will just get

00:08:38 ◼   ► eaten up by our spam filters. You have to send it to Stephen and then he can share it.

00:08:43 ◼   ► You know what happened to me a few weeks ago?

00:08:46 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:49 ◼   ► And I'm trying very hard to think of a way to phrase this that doesn't make me sound

00:08:54 ◼   ► like a jerk.

00:08:55 ◼   ► However...

00:08:56 ◼   ► This is gonna be great.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Whatever this is, it's gonna be great.

00:08:59 ◼   ► Please carry on.

00:09:01 ◼   ► So how can I say this?

00:09:03 ◼   ► You clearly can't, so you may as well just say it.

00:09:06 ◼   ► Just say it as it is.

00:09:07 ◼   ► I get a lot of mentions on Twitter every day.

00:09:09 ◼   ► Oh, look at me.

00:09:11 ◼   ► No, I know. What happens?

00:09:13 ◼   ► I have 60,000 followers!

00:09:15 ◼   ► People want to just talk to me all the time!

00:09:18 ◼   ► You cannot have a conversation with this too, it's impossible.

00:09:21 ◼   ► So I get a lot of mentions every day and I also try as much as possible to stay away from Twitter and actually write or work on my shortcuts.

00:09:32 ◼   ► So you want to stay away from the people that want to talk to you is what you're saying?

00:09:36 ◼   ► No, I appreciate that people want to talk to me.

00:09:39 ◼   ► However, I'm trying to limit my social networking time

00:09:42 ◼   ► because I know that if I open Twitter,

00:09:44 ◼   ► I'm gonna end up spending like three hours

00:09:46 ◼   ► just browsing Twitter and responding to people.

00:09:49 ◼   ► And while I do appreciate the fact

00:09:50 ◼   ► that people get in touch with me, I need to be selective.

00:09:53 ◼   ► So usually like when, like there's a lot of folks

00:09:58 ◼   ► who use Twitter as tech support,

00:10:00 ◼   ► even though I am not Apple's tech support,

00:10:03 ◼   ► but just people ask you like technical things like,

00:10:05 ◼   ► "Hey, do you know why my MacBook will no longer work with this cable?"

00:10:11 ◼   ► And what do I know about your MacBook and the cables that you have?

00:10:14 ◼   ► Like, ask Apple, because that's why you buy your computer.

00:10:17 ◼   ► Anyway, I guess that there are some people who are upset that,

00:10:21 ◼   ► in the past, I may have not replied to them on Twitter.

00:10:28 ◼   ► And so a few weeks ago, I saw a person ask me something in Italian on Twitter.

00:10:37 ◼   ► And another Italian interjected in that conversation and basically said something

00:10:42 ◼   ► along the lines of "Good luck getting an answer from him because he never replies to anybody."

00:10:46 ◼   ► And that really annoyed me. So just out of spite, I did reply to that person, including the second

00:10:54 ◼   ► guy, even though normally I wouldn't ever reply to that person.

00:10:57 ◼   ► I'm not really sure what lesson you could have learned from this.

00:11:04 ◼   ► Oh there's no lesson, I'm just a horrible person.

00:11:07 ◼   ► So I guess what I want to know is, what has that got to do with what we were just talking about?

00:11:13 ◼   ► So it's just the same question.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Yes, that because you said if you email Federico and me, you were basically never gonna see it.

00:11:22 ◼   ► And that made me think of what happens when people send me tweets.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Like me, I'm assuming.

00:11:28 ◼   ► I just want to say though, I do go through my mentions every night.

00:11:32 ◼   ► So at least once a day, I sit down and I open my mentions.

00:11:36 ◼   ► If I don't reply, it's because I know that if I reply, it's going to become a whole thing.

00:11:41 ◼   ► And I'd rather disappoint people at the beginning rather than during an ongoing conversation.

00:11:46 ◼   ► Right. Okay.

00:11:48 ◼   ► Because then I'm gonna reply and then I know, like you get the sense that some tweets, if you engage, if you reply, you just know that it's gonna become a whole thing.

00:11:57 ◼   ► Because like, people are like, "Oh, now that I have your attention, I actually have three more problems for you to solve."

00:12:04 ◼   ► And so I would rather disappoint them once at the very beginning of this stage rather than after getting their hopes up.

00:12:11 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:12:12 ◼   ► Does it make sense? I know that it makes me sound like a jerk.

00:12:15 ◼   ► What I will say is this is definitely a thing that I can understand your feeling.

00:12:21 ◼   ► Okay, thank you.

00:12:22 ◼   ► I don't want to say one way or another what I do here. What I will say, for me in general,

00:12:31 ◼   ► I much prefer tweets to emails, you know? Like if somebody wants to ask me a question

00:12:37 ◼   ► or get like some advice on something, tweets are so much better than emails.

00:12:44 ◼   ► Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure they are. DMs could be, I don't know.

00:12:53 ◼   ► I would like to just state this is long-term follow-up, right? So I opened my DMs many,

00:12:58 ◼   ► many, many weeks ago. As of right now, there hasn't really been any benefit to it. You

00:13:06 ◼   ► know, like you guys talk about like, "Oh, sometimes I get like a thing." I have had

00:13:09 ◼   ► nothing which has been particularly useful. What has happened mostly is

00:13:17 ◼   ► exactly what I thought would happen, which is people send me DMs for things

00:13:21 ◼   ► that should be replies. That's because you haven't... the people out there

00:13:27 ◼   ► can feel that you haven't opened yourself up to the idea of receiving

00:13:31 ◼   ► something potentially interesting. It's like something like

00:13:36 ◼   ► like karma. Like as soon as you accept it, you know it's gonna happen. You have to embrace

00:13:42 ◼   ► the idea and when you do, you will start receiving interesting DMs.

00:13:46 ◼   ► There's actually now, I'm looking at my DMs now, there's more interesting stuff in the

00:13:51 ◼   ► additional messages area, which I think is what they filter out and don't show you.

00:13:56 ◼   ► That's what we've been talking about all along.

00:13:58 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no. So you've got messages, message requests, and at the very bottom,

00:14:04 ◼   ► additional messages including those that may contain offensive content. I haven't found

00:14:08 ◼   ► any offensive... Oh, did you prefer the ones with offensive content? There's no offensive

00:14:12 ◼   ► content in any of them, but they're more interesting. Why are they filtered out? Oh, no, here's

00:14:18 ◼   ► an offensive one. That's fine. I was wrong. Oh, they're in here. Oh, no! And close the

00:14:24 ◼   ► tab goodbye. Let's move on with the show. I'm here to save you. Last week I spoke about

00:14:30 ◼   ► the current gate of iPhones that's sweeping the nation. I'm very happy to tell you that

00:14:36 ◼   ► our numbers have swelled. I'm up to five people reporting that sometimes their iPhone screens

00:14:41 ◼   ► look a little green.

00:14:43 ◼   ► Why is nobody talking about this?

00:14:44 ◼   ► Why is no one talking about this?

00:14:45 ◼   ► I can't believe nobody's talking about this.

00:14:46 ◼   ► I can't believe it.

00:14:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:48 ◼   ► Five people.

00:14:49 ◼   ► Uh, congrats?

00:14:50 ◼   ► It's a movement, man. Sweeping the nation.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Cool. Very exciting. Thank you.

00:14:57 ◼   ► Good luck.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Good luck with your class action lawsuit. Yeah, well, it's a you know it's like a small group

00:15:04 ◼   ► Action now not a full class

00:15:07 ◼   ► Sure yeah like a lunch table action suit

00:15:11 ◼   ► Like a zoom call

00:15:15 ◼   ► Yeah, oh no my beer. Yeah, you gotta be we've got to be careful with those boys

00:15:19 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they could turn nasty real fast all right Myke tell us about your new watch band

00:15:23 ◼   ► I bought the Nike pride watch band because I thought it looked super cool. I also have it

00:15:28 ◼   ► It's not just Myke's new watch band, I also have it right now.

00:15:31 ◼   ► All right, when did you get yours?

00:15:32 ◼   ► You got it before, so it's technically Myke's.

00:15:36 ◼   ► There you go, I got it yesterday.

00:15:37 ◼   ► And as of recording, like right now is the first time I've been able to set the

00:15:42 ◼   ► rainbow watch faces. They have some pride faces and some rainbow colors

00:15:48 ◼   ► being added to existing faces like the California dial and stuff.

00:15:52 ◼   ► There's two pride bands, they're both sport bands this year.

00:15:57 ◼   ► like the the rubber ones what does apple call them like poly something something something

00:16:02 ◼   ► polymer i don't know they got it they give it a different name they don't call it rubber do they

00:16:07 ◼   ► write the sport bands i don't remember now but um florilastomer there you go florilastomer that's

00:16:13 ◼   ► it florilastomer get a little bit lost in the middle i was about to say polyamorous but that's

00:16:17 ◼   ► a different thing that's a different thing it's not at all related um but uh oh man you've lost

00:16:26 ◼   ► me now. But they added... oh geez there's two bands. One is like the typical pride flag,

00:16:37 ◼   ► right? Like the rainbow pride flag in stripes. And the other one is a white Nike sport band

00:16:44 ◼   ► with the pride flag colors inside the holes that are in the band. Now I really like this one

00:16:50 ◼   ► because I have the white ceramic edition watch and I've always worn my Apple watch with just the

00:16:58 ◼   ► white band that it came with because I think that pairing was really nice but this was like another

00:17:02 ◼   ► one was like oh that's a good pairing right like that still white which I like and it adds some

00:17:06 ◼   ► color and I'm currently setting up the California watch face which is the one that I use with the

00:17:12 ◼   ► rainbow um like the rainbow option so for the hands or another rainbow color so I think it

00:17:18 ◼   ► it looks really cool. I like that they continue to do this, but I like that what Apple does

00:17:25 ◼   ► is they make a new one every year or whatever. Like I think that's a nice way to do it rather

00:17:28 ◼   ► than just doing the same thing. I've had some trouble trying to get watchOS and iOS to understand

00:17:35 ◼   ► that they have this watch face capability. There seems to have been like some weirdness,

00:17:38 ◼   ► like watchOS came out first and it had some of the options and not all of them. It's very

00:17:44 ◼   ► peculiar, but I guess it will work eventually.

00:17:47 ◼   ► So the one, the pride watch face that I'm playing around with now, this one is from

00:17:52 ◼   ► last year, right?

00:17:54 ◼   ► You can spin the digital crown and there's like these colored threads that like jump

00:18:00 ◼   ► around as you spin the crown.

00:18:02 ◼   ► This is from last year.

00:18:03 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:18:05 ◼   ► There was a few different ones.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Has anybody talked about how awesome this watch face is?

00:18:09 ◼   ► Probably last year, yeah.

00:18:10 ◼   ► Mmm, you sure?

00:18:12 ◼   ► Can I have a brief segment?

00:18:14 ◼   ► I'm still spinning the crown, by the way.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Can we have a brief, can I have a brief, just a quick comment on, and again, I don't know

00:18:21 ◼   ► why I keep choosing these topics that make me sound like a jerk today, but how bad the

00:18:27 ◼   ► situation is for those who have multiple Apple Watches when it comes to updating them.

00:18:32 ◼   ► I'm so sorry.

00:18:33 ◼   ► I left my violin in the studio, otherwise I would play it for you right now.

00:18:40 ◼   ► So as somebody who literally has a day watch and a night watch, I'm here to tell you that

00:18:48 ◼   ► updating them is a nightmare.

00:18:51 ◼   ► Updating all Apple watches is bad.

00:18:52 ◼   ► So updating all Apple watches is bad.

00:18:55 ◼   ► It's gotten better through the years if you have like a single Apple watch because you

00:19:00 ◼   ► have the notifications and you can start the update on the watch itself and there's like

00:19:04 ◼   ► multiple reminders.

00:19:06 ◼   ► Like it used to be very very very bad, now it's just very bad.

00:19:11 ◼   ► So there's been some progress there.

00:19:14 ◼   ► But if you have multiple Apple Watches it's just so annoying that it's one of those things

00:19:18 ◼   ► that I keep pushing, like I just keep ignoring until it's become impossible for me to keep

00:19:28 ◼   ► ignoring it basically.

00:19:30 ◼   ► What I don't like about the Apple Watch updating thing is that if something happens and you

00:19:35 ◼   ► knock the watch off the charger you will break the Apple watch right like that's

00:19:39 ◼   ► so scary to me is like an update thing that I get I kind of put it off for that

00:19:44 ◼   ► reason because I have my watch in a like in a charger that puts it on its side

00:19:49 ◼   ► and sometimes I don't know why like the connection will break between them like

00:19:54 ◼   ► it stops charging and so when I'm updating it I'm like terrified that it's

00:19:59 ◼   ► going to fall off the charger because then I will need to take my Apple watch

00:20:06 ◼   ► to an Apple store and that's not a thing I can actually do right you know what

00:20:09 ◼   ► the trick is with that cuz I have the same problem it's to basically tighten

00:20:13 ◼   ► the band around the stand so it's like stuck to it I'll try that that's a good

00:20:21 ◼   ► tip I'll try that yeah still anyway if you have multiple Apple watches well two

00:20:26 ◼   ► of them, I guess. Is two of them the limit? I don't know. So anyway, there's this option in

00:20:31 ◼   ► settings in the watch app for the iPhone that is called automatic pairing, and the idea would be

00:20:37 ◼   ► that when you take the first watch off your wrist and you put on the other, the iPhone automatically

00:20:43 ◼   ► switches between them. The problem there is that if you leave automatic pairing on, and by all

00:20:50 ◼   ► intents and purposes you do want to leave it on. If you start the software update, right, for

00:20:57 ◼   ► watch A, and you reach the point where it tells you this needs to be on the charger,

00:21:04 ◼   ► you put it on the charger, and at that point I assume you're going to be taking watch B and put

00:21:09 ◼   ► it on your wrist, because if you're a multi-watch person you always want to have a watch on you.

00:21:14 ◼   ► But when you put the second watch on your wrist, automatic pairing kicks in and says "oh, well,

00:21:20 ◼   ► "Oopsie, now this iPhone is paired with the second watch, I guess we can all forget about the software update for the other watch."

00:21:25 ◼   ► And so what happens there is that every time I have to update the watch, I need to disable automatic pairing,

00:21:32 ◼   ► complete the software update process for the watch, without wearing the second watch,

00:21:37 ◼   ► wait for the whole thing to finish, which can take hours. Like, I don't know why, but updating the Apple Watch software, like,

00:21:44 ◼   ► you know, might as well go back to Viterbo and see my mom and come back home and it's still going.

00:21:49 ◼   ► And then when it's done, I need to unlock the watch, re-enable automatic pairing, and

00:21:58 ◼   ► put on the second watch, go check for updates, and do the whole thing again.

00:22:04 ◼   ► Disable automatic pairing, and stuff.

00:22:05 ◼   ► So basically I need to book a full afternoon just to do the software update on the watch.

00:22:11 ◼   ► And it's like, I mean, unless there's a major new feature, I'm just gonna leave it on the

00:22:15 ◼   ► old version.

00:22:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I guess at this point because the new watch faces they look kind of nice I

00:22:21 ◼   ► Am gonna be doing it

00:22:23 ◼   ► but I you know I'll have to put in a task in my task manager and everything because it's gonna be a whole thing so

00:22:30 ◼   ► basically what I'm asking is for

00:22:33 ◼   ► watch OS team try and think of you know that many many of us who have multiple Apple watches and

00:22:40 ◼   ► Try and make the installation the software update process a bit easier

00:22:44 ◼   ► I don't understand why the Apple Watch has to be on the charger to be updated.

00:22:50 ◼   ► I know right? Why?

00:22:52 ◼   ► No other device that I own needs that.

00:22:55 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:22:56 ◼   ► Right? Like I understand that devices need like a certain battery limit, you know, so like it's got to be 50% or whatever.

00:23:03 ◼   ► Right.

00:23:04 ◼   ► But the Apple Watch is the only device that I have that requires itself to be currently charging while updating.

00:23:12 ◼   ► And I just find that to be very peculiar.

00:23:15 ◼   ► So, the latest version is 6.2.5, is that correct?

00:23:20 ◼   ► That is correct.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Okay, cool. I will be scheduling a software update session for some time this weekend.

00:23:27 ◼   ► Hopefully.

00:23:29 ◼   ► Good luck. Good luck, sir.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Thank you. Thank you, mate.

00:23:32 ◼   ► Maybe while you're doing that you could reply to tweets.

00:23:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess I have to.

00:23:38 ◼   ► Seems like you could put them both in, shed them, you know, it's like update and tweet time.

00:23:42 ◼   ► I used to have a...

00:23:43 ◼   ► So if you get a reply from Federico over the weekend, you know he's updating ZappaWatch.

00:23:48 ◼   ► I used to have a recurring task in Reminders years ago that said reply to tweets.

00:23:54 ◼   ► That's a terrible task.

00:23:55 ◼   ► I know, I know, it just made me so stressed.

00:23:57 ◼   ► But you like to be, you know, connected with the people, I suppose.

00:24:01 ◼   ► I do like, and I, like, again, this makes me sound worse than I actually am as a person,

00:24:06 ◼   ► I think. But I do love the fact that I have people... It would be a problem if I had nobody,

00:24:14 ◼   ► you know, interested in talking to me. So I'm not complaining. It's just that also it

00:24:19 ◼   ► is true that the volume of all those tweets sometimes gets out of hand. That's all I'm

00:24:24 ◼   ► saying. And also people follow me because I write. If I spend my whole day replying

00:24:30 ◼   ► to emails and writing tweets, I wouldn't be writing anymore. Therefore, I'm actually doing

00:24:36 ◼   ► them a favor. You keep justifying it. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Is there any more or are

00:24:41 ◼   ► we good now? No, I'm done. Okay, we'll see. Maybe you'll come up with another one. Sure.

00:24:46 ◼   ► As the episode goes on. Let's take a break. This episode of Connected is brought to you

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00:26:10 ◼   ► Before we go on, I have like a nosebleed.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Can you give me like five minutes?

00:26:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, you should go handle that.

00:26:16 ◼   ► - It's not bad.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I'm just gonna get a tissue.

00:26:18 ◼   ► - It's the first time that's ever happened

00:26:20 ◼   ► that I've been on recording with somebody

00:26:22 ◼   ► and then they started bleeding. - It's not like bad.

00:26:23 ◼   ► I'm just gonna get a tissue, so.

00:26:25 ◼   ► - Go deal with it.

00:26:25 ◼   ► I don't know why you're still here.

00:26:26 ◼   ► - Yes, don't worry about it. - I'll be back.

00:26:28 ◼   ► I wanna talk about OpenDoc, don't start without me.

00:26:29 ◼   ► - Yes, don't bleed all over your keyboard.

00:26:31 ◼   ► He's like, "What is wrong if you just leave?"

00:26:33 ◼   ► Like, he's just gonna stay around to make jokes.

00:26:35 ◼   ► It just kept talking.

00:26:36 ◼   ► There's a hierarchy.

00:26:37 ◼   ► Nosebleed comes before jokes.

00:26:40 ◼   ► We all know that.

00:26:41 ◼   ► That phrase.

00:26:42 ◼   ► Nose before jokes.

00:26:42 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:26:45 ◼   ► No.

00:26:47 ◼   ► I like that.

00:26:48 ◼   ► Nose before jokes.

00:26:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:50 ◼   ► So the chat room is going wild.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Which chat room are you in, the Discord?

00:26:56 ◼   ► I'm in the-- well, yes.

00:26:59 ◼   ► The Discord is where it's at.

00:27:00 ◼   ► They're all going wild in here.

00:27:01 ◼   ► I am in all places and nowhere at the same time.

00:27:07 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, especially on Twitter, right?

00:27:11 ◼   ► It's like I'm Schrodinger-ing myself.

00:27:15 ◼   ► I exist and I do not exist at the same time.

00:27:19 ◼   ► Oh, this is fun.

00:27:20 ◼   ► I just opened up Twitter because they're doing that people--

00:27:23 ◼   ► they got that new thing, right?

00:27:25 ◼   ► And Sarah Dietschy just tweeted, "Welcome to the exclusive club

00:27:29 ◼   ► the 858 people I follow. So that's kind of funny, right? Like you can just make tweets

00:27:34 ◼   ► and they're just like little clubs amongst only the people that you've deemed to be able

00:27:38 ◼   ► to respond to you. I also see this tweet because she follows me. Well no, everyone can see

00:27:44 ◼   ► it, but only people that she follows can reply to it, right? I don't have that feature yet,

00:27:51 ◼   ► but I think that is a really good feature. You should just do all of your tweets that

00:27:54 ◼   ► way and then no one will reply to you. So now I can tweet things. You can tweet things

00:28:01 ◼   ► and only and you can set it, well if you are in the beta rollout that they're doing. I'm

00:28:09 ◼   ► here. You doing okay over there? Yeah it's not bad. I wonder what's caused it. I don't

00:28:13 ◼   ► know. My allergies have been bothering me this week. I don't know if it's like. Does

00:28:17 ◼   ► it, does that a thing? I don't know. Nose is scratchy. So you can now choose between

00:28:23 ◼   ► everyone can reply, people you follow or only people that you mention in a tweet.

00:28:28 ◼   ► If you're in part of this beta that they test that they're doing.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Where would the control be for that?

00:28:37 ◼   ► It's just in the tweet compose window.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't have it.

00:28:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't have it either. But I think that's a really cool feature.

00:28:44 ◼   ► Like I will finally be able to tweet all of my controversial opinions again

00:28:49 ◼   ► and just lock them down, you know?

00:28:51 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:28:51 ◼   ► This would be great.

00:28:52 ◼   ► But will third party clients see them?

00:28:55 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:58 ◼   ► I don't know what happens with those.

00:29:00 ◼   ► If it's the API level, maybe...

00:29:01 ◼   ► they could just block them? I don't know.

00:29:04 ◼   ► Maybe they could just block them.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Sorry guys, this is very weird.

00:29:12 ◼   ► Hey, don't apologize.

00:29:13 ◼   ► Your nose is bleeding.

00:29:14 ◼   ► My body's falling apart.

00:29:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:16 ◼   ► ♫ Your nose is bleeding ♫

00:29:18 ◼   ► Was that a rough party song, Myke?

00:29:22 ◼   ► Was it a block party song?

00:29:23 ◼   ► And your nose is bleeding, doo doo doo doo doo

00:29:26 ◼   ► And your nose is...

00:29:26 ◼   ► Luna from Block Party, maybe?

00:29:28 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:29:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's Luna.

00:29:30 ◼   ► So, Tweetbot can see those tweets?

00:29:34 ◼   ► Right? So like it doesn't hide the tweets of people that are using the feature,

00:29:38 ◼   ► but I don't know if...

00:29:41 ◼   ► Like you're blocked from replying to them, maybe?

00:29:43 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't want to test it.

00:29:45 ◼   ► You know?

00:29:47 ◼   ► Like I can see a tweet that I could reply to,

00:29:49 ◼   ► But I think it would be kind of weird if I just then started replying to the tweet

00:29:52 ◼   ► so

00:29:55 ◼   ► We'll find out

00:29:57 ◼   ► All right, let's see if this holds together

00:30:01 ◼   ► Do you mean you yeah, okay. Yeah, see if this thing can hold together. Yeah

00:30:08 ◼   ► There's a lot of people listening live. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they just like that list is long. Oh, yeah in

00:30:16 ◼   ► - All right, Federico, do you want to start this one?

00:30:18 ◼   ► - All right, so yesterday,

00:30:20 ◼   ► Microsoft had some kind of event.

00:30:23 ◼   ► What's it called, Microsoft Build?

00:30:24 ◼   ► The annual, like the-- - The developer.

00:30:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, by Microsoft, and one of the many announcements,

00:30:32 ◼   ► so they announced the new Windows Terminal,

00:30:34 ◼   ► like a bunch of things,

00:30:35 ◼   ► but I want to talk about this Fluid Office,

00:30:38 ◼   ► Fluid Framework, and specifically applied,

00:30:42 ◼   ► in this case, we got a demo of the Fluid Framework

00:30:45 ◼   ► from Microsoft in the Office apps and Outlook.

00:30:48 ◼   ► So I saw this story on The Verge

00:30:49 ◼   ► and I read the article on The Verge.

00:30:51 ◼   ► And my first reaction was, oh, this is cool.

00:30:55 ◼   ► And I saved the article for yesterday.

00:30:58 ◼   ► I wanted to read it today before the show, and I did.

00:31:01 ◼   ► And as soon as I started reading the story,

00:31:04 ◼   ► as soon as, basically, the moment I started reading

00:31:08 ◼   ► the first paragraph, a single word started sort of like,

00:31:14 ◼   ► instead of visualizing this word in front of my eyes,

00:31:17 ◼   ► and that word is "open dock."

00:31:19 ◼   ► Now, I was not around to remember, you know,

00:31:23 ◼   ► I'm not old enough to know what open dock was

00:31:26 ◼   ► when it came out, but Steven, I believe, if he wasn't,

00:31:29 ◼   ► I mean, did you actually ever use open dock, Steven?

00:31:34 ◼   ► - I know what it is.

00:31:35 ◼   ► In fact, when you said, this reminds me of open dock,

00:31:37 ◼   ► it was like a light came down from heaven

00:31:41 ◼   ► and illuminated just me as like,

00:31:42 ◼   ► I'm the perfect person to talk about this.

00:31:44 ◼   ► I was not using the Mac in the OpenDoc days,

00:31:48 ◼   ► but I do know quite a bit about it.

00:31:49 ◼   ► And so I went into my dev and think database

00:31:52 ◼   ► and searched OpenDoc.

00:31:53 ◼   ► And I've put some notes together for y'all

00:31:56 ◼   ► I'd like to share.

00:31:56 ◼   ► - Of course you had it in there.

00:31:58 ◼   ► - Of course I did.

00:31:59 ◼   ► There's actually an OpenDoc group now.

00:32:01 ◼   ► 'Cause I was like, oh, this should be together.

00:32:02 ◼   ► So it's a lot of OpenDoc stuff to talk about.

00:32:06 ◼   ► So you're totally right that this idea

00:32:11 ◼   ► that they were showing off is reminiscent of OpenDoc.

00:32:15 ◼   ► So maybe do you wanna talk a little bit

00:32:16 ◼   ► about what they showed off and then I can explain OpenDoc

00:32:18 ◼   ► and then we can compare them?

00:32:20 ◼   ► - Sure, so what they showed off,

00:32:22 ◼   ► and I'm gonna simplify here because that article,

00:32:25 ◼   ► they have some quotes from Microsoft

00:32:27 ◼   ► and if you actually go watch some of the promo videos

00:32:29 ◼   ► from Microsoft, they are, I don't wanna say like

00:32:32 ◼   ► concept videos because the feature is working

00:32:34 ◼   ► and we do get some footage out of the fluid framework

00:32:38 ◼   ► in practice, but the way that it's presented

00:32:41 ◼   ► and the way that it's shown off in most of the promo videos,

00:32:45 ◼   ► it's very marketing heavy and not so much focused

00:32:50 ◼   ► on the practicality of it.

00:32:52 ◼   ► But from what I've seen, the idea is the following.

00:32:55 ◼   ► So with the Fluid framework,

00:32:57 ◼   ► Office apps will start taking advantage of Microsoft,

00:33:04 ◼   ► the Verge is referring to them as Lego blocks, basically,

00:33:09 ◼   ► but they're also officially called fluid elements.

00:33:12 ◼   ► Think about the functionality of each Office app

00:33:17 ◼   ► as an individual standalone element.

00:33:21 ◼   ► So the word processor is made of a text field,

00:33:25 ◼   ► and in Excel you have a table,

00:33:30 ◼   ► or maybe you have a chart,

00:33:32 ◼   ► or maybe in Word you have a picture

00:33:35 ◼   ► to go alongside your text.

00:33:37 ◼   ► and maybe in power and of course in powerpoint you have slides. Now all of these elements, rather

00:33:42 ◼   ► than being features of a specific application, they can become embeddable objects. And the idea

00:33:51 ◼   ► would be that with the fluid framework, rather than being limited to using like these apps as

00:33:56 ◼   ► silos to get your work done, you can end up in a scenario where in your email client,

00:34:05 ◼   ► in this case Outlook, you may have a table, a spreadsheet, that you can edit

00:34:11 ◼   ► right there inside the email client. So each element becomes its own module that can be embedded

00:34:19 ◼   ► regardless of the application that you're using. So Outlook could embed a live version of a

00:34:26 ◼   ► spreadsheet, and maybe a spreadsheet could embed a live version of your task manager

00:34:34 ◼   ► list, or Word could have a table and a presentation inside of it.

00:34:40 ◼   ► And Microsoft is presenting this, again, this idea of fluidity between applications,

00:34:47 ◼   ► the ability to embed these elements in different apps from Microsoft and maybe third-party

00:34:55 ◼   ► developers, because this is an open source framework that developers can use. And

00:35:02 ◼   ► all of this with collaboration on top of it. So it's going to be based on the Office 365

00:35:07 ◼   ► cloud collaboration system. And so it's not just that you can embed these elements within different

00:35:16 ◼   ► apps, you can also collaborate in real time with other people on those elements. So the idea would

00:35:23 ◼   ► be, rather than thinking of "oh okay I'm doing my email therefore I'm using Outlook" or "I'm writing

00:35:29 ◼   ► an essay, therefore I'm using Word, everything becomes so much more fluid in the sense of

00:35:36 ◼   ► everything can be anywhere at the same time. And in theory, it's a beautiful idea, right?

00:35:45 ◼   ► It's the idea of stop thinking of your computer as a series of applications and start thinking of

00:35:52 ◼   ► your work as a concept that follows you around all the time. You're not limited by

00:35:58 ◼   ► clicking a specific icon and opening a specific app anymore, all kinds of work, whether it's a

00:36:05 ◼   ► table or an image or some text or a project from your task manager, everything can live together

00:36:12 ◼   ► all the time. And it's not just you, you can also invite other people in this. You cannot even call

00:36:20 ◼   ► them documents anymore, they're just content or they just work. I don't understand this,

00:36:25 ◼   ► I cannot get my head around this. I'm really struggling.

00:36:30 ◼   ► The idea or the technicality of it?

00:36:32 ◼   ► I just don't understand. So what is Word then?

00:36:36 ◼   ► Okay, see, okay, so we're getting to the point of this. So the idea would be that

00:36:42 ◼   ► Word is... Well, first of all, that is also my question for all the criticism that I have

00:36:49 ◼   ► of this idea, but Word is a place where you can start writing your Word documents, but where

00:36:58 ◼   ► maybe you also want to embed a task list from Microsoft To-Do, or where maybe you want to embed

00:37:05 ◼   ► the conversation from Outlook. I guess when you think about it, you start losing the identity of

00:37:12 ◼   ► all these applications, right? Because everything can just be anything, right? It's like Word can

00:37:18 ◼   ► also be Excel. And Excel can also be... So do you think that they're like, they're just moving to

00:37:23 ◼   ► Office and that's it, right? I think that's the goal, right? Which would also be, which would also

00:37:29 ◼   ► explain why they launched the unified Office app for mobile devices, right? You don't, like, you

00:37:35 ◼   ► still have the legacy, well not legacy because they're still updated, but you still have the

00:37:40 ◼   ► standalone apps for Word and PowerPoint and Excel, but you also have the main Office app. So the idea

00:37:46 ◼   ► would be stop thinking of individual applications and start thinking of the big picture of this more

00:37:52 ◼   ► cohesive whole that is your work. And the idea again is you can take these elements anywhere

00:38:02 ◼   ► you want and then you can collaborate with other people and you can have integration with Microsoft

00:38:06 ◼   ► Teams on top of it as well. Which again, I think conceptually speaking, I do see the beauty of it.

00:38:16 ◼   ► What if you were not constrained by application A, application B, application C, and so forth? What

00:38:25 ◼   ► if your work was this abstract concept that doesn't require a specific app anymore? It's just content,

00:38:33 ◼   ► and content follows you around. It's a beautiful idea, for sure. However, as Stephen is going to

00:38:39 ◼   ► explain, it's the kind of idea that has been done before by multiple companies, including

00:38:45 ◼   ► Microsoft itself. A similar idea used to be called the OLE framework, the Object Linking and

00:38:53 ◼   ► Embedding Framework in the 90s, and of course, as Stephen mentioned, OpenDoc created by Apple

00:39:00 ◼   ► in the 90s also. So Stephen, what was OpenDoc? It is an amazing coincidence. The things that you just

00:39:11 ◼   ► talked about Apple and others tried to basically do in the 90s. And so they were kind of two big

00:39:18 ◼   ► questions. The first one you just stated, why should applications be locked to specific types

00:39:23 ◼   ► of work? Why should data be locked in certain file formats? Why can't you have a sales chart

00:39:29 ◼   ► that updates automatically in the document that you're working on? Right? So there's that side of

00:39:34 ◼   ► the coin, there's the work side of the coin, then there was a side of the coin of sort of the

00:39:40 ◼   ► push for object oriented programming and object oriented work. And that was something that next

00:39:45 ◼   ► and some others had been doing Apple kind of wandered in the desert a bit with this, but

00:39:51 ◼   ► really struggled and actually like third parties came to rise to prominence in in Mac development

00:39:58 ◼   ► tools. And so OpenDoc was kind of a way for customers for users to be able to do this new

00:40:04 ◼   ► type of work. And for Apple to say this is how we're going to develop things now and try to regain

00:40:09 ◼   ► some of that control. It was made in conjunction with Apple and IBM.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Microsoft had been working on similar ideas in the same time frame. This

00:40:19 ◼   ► isn't new for Microsoft either. And Apple, you know, think about the 90s, had a very

00:40:23 ◼   ► tiny market share and they didn't want to be locked out of a more interchangeable

00:40:27 ◼   ► future, right? Like there were already huge compatibility issues between

00:40:33 ◼   ► Microsoft and Apple software and they wanted to do what they could to stay

00:40:38 ◼   ► relevant in there. So OpenDoc is introduced in '93 and ends up shipping in '95, and it

00:40:47 ◼   ► basically never got off the ground in any huge way. So it had the ideas that you talked

00:40:56 ◼   ► about where you could have—they called them—canvas was a big word in OpenDoc. You could have

00:41:02 ◼   ► app was like a canvas and then you could put in the parts from these different

00:41:07 ◼   ► applications you can kind of think like the closest thing we have to this today

00:41:13 ◼   ► is kind of like shortcuts where shortcuts the app is a place where you

00:41:18 ◼   ► can build things with intents and things supplied by different apps on your

00:41:24 ◼   ► devices kind of the same idea so your word processor your spreadsheet your

00:41:30 ◼   ► your contact manager, your calendar would all have little bits of code that could interface

00:41:36 ◼   ► with each other on a canvas and you could kind of make your own thing.

00:41:39 ◼   ► So it was like part document creation, part programming.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Like I said, it didn't really go any well.

00:41:45 ◼   ► Apple really got distracted with things like Copeland, which was their one of a couple

00:41:50 ◼   ► attempts at building a next gen OS that failed and they ended up buying next and launching

00:41:55 ◼   ► OS 10 years later.

00:41:57 ◼   ► warrior came to basically dominate the IDE space on the Mac. So OpenDoc just

00:42:02 ◼   ► wasn't supported by the community, really wasn't supported by Apple. And then there

00:42:07 ◼   ► were the issues of these parts. Like the idea was it was to be so open that say

00:42:13 ◼   ► that I create a document and I sent it to you Federico and you were missing one

00:42:18 ◼   ► of the parts. Like I had made something in application A, you didn't have

00:42:23 ◼   ► application a where the open doc format was designed to work around that but in

00:42:28 ◼   ► practice developers didn't really do the work to make that happen so you couldn't

00:42:33 ◼   ► really guarantee that it was even interoperable because if I sent you

00:42:36 ◼   ► something and I created part of this doc in Excel you didn't have Excel it just

00:42:41 ◼   ► wouldn't show up in your copy or it would be like broken somehow that's very

00:42:46 ◼   ► counter to know what they were trying to do it really kind of the idea

00:42:53 ◼   ► Clearly that idea has merit because it keeps coming back, but there's this particular swing at it just

00:42:58 ◼   ► Did it didn't really work?

00:43:01 ◼   ► I guess the way that Microsoft is probably trying to get around the problems of

00:43:05 ◼   ► Something like open doc is like no this is our thing, right?

00:43:09 ◼   ► Right, like they don't have to worry about getting other people to jump on board, right?

00:43:13 ◼   ► It's like no these are the Microsoft products and all the Microsoft products can be interoperable

00:43:19 ◼   ► I am still like struggling to get my head around the conceptual nature of this.

00:43:26 ◼   ► Yeah, it's weird. It's really weird.

00:43:28 ◼   ► And you know, you're right. Apple in a way, OpenDoc in a way, was way more ambitious than what Microsoft was talking about because

00:43:35 ◼   ► there were those with an Apple who really wanted OpenDoc to be the future of the Mac, right? You didn't have these

00:43:41 ◼   ► giant programs. You could go out and get these little tiny itty bitty programs and like build them together and to have just what you needed.

00:43:49 ◼   ► It just never panned out.

00:43:52 ◼   ► Your partner is IBM, they're working on OS/2, which went down in flames.

00:43:56 ◼   ► It never really got the momentum it needed, and even if it had, I'm not sure it was the

00:44:02 ◼   ► right implementation of the idea.

00:44:06 ◼   ► I think one of the reasons for this type of thing never being able to work cross-platform

00:44:10 ◼   ► is you take away a company's ability to brand itself.

00:44:17 ◼   ► If you say like, "oh hey developer, you're just now a plugin."

00:44:22 ◼   ► Companies like to be able to brand themselves, right?

00:44:26 ◼   ► This is who we are, this is how we design, this is the experience we want our customers

00:44:30 ◼   ► to have.

00:44:31 ◼   ► I think this is always a problem with this type of stuff, even with things like Siri,

00:44:37 ◼   ► or even something like shortcuts.

00:44:39 ◼   ► A lot of companies would be like, "no, we want people in our app, we believe it's good,

00:44:46 ◼   ► because we made it."

00:44:47 ◼   ► whether that is or not is up for your own interpretation.

00:44:50 ◼   ► But companies are made up of people who want to make the thing that they want to

00:44:55 ◼   ► make.

00:44:56 ◼   ► They don't want to be just a little piece of technology that goes into something

00:45:01 ◼   ► that somebody else makes.

00:45:03 ◼   ► So I think the only way to do something like this in the modern day is to own and

00:45:08 ◼   ► operate a stack of technology which is broad.

00:45:11 ◼   ► And obviously Microsoft have been doing that, right?

00:45:14 ◼   ► Like they have everything now, you know,

00:45:16 ◼   ► They have word processor, spreadsheets, PowerPoint is obviously a thing.

00:45:22 ◼   ► I was going to say PowerPoints.

00:45:23 ◼   ► Now they own PowerPoint is the thing.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Slides, I guess.

00:45:27 ◼   ► But they have their team chat thing.

00:45:29 ◼   ► They have to-do managers.

00:45:30 ◼   ► They even have a new one, like another new one that they showed off a couple of days

00:45:35 ◼   ► ago.

00:45:36 ◼   ► So I guess that they feel that they can do it.

00:45:39 ◼   ► But it's still like...

00:45:41 ◼   ► I think the thing that I'm just struggling to get my head around is like not saying like

00:45:46 ◼   ► this is just one thing that we have now, we just have this one product, by saying like

00:45:50 ◼   ► you can put an Excel spreadsheet in Word. It's like...

00:45:54 ◼   ► But why would I want to?

00:45:55 ◼   ► Why? Yeah, like why are they different things then? You know, like in my mind, like when

00:46:01 ◼   ► I first saw this, I thought, oh, they've built a new online collaboration tool called Fluid,

00:46:07 ◼   ► and it has all of this functionality, but that's not what they've built, right? At least

00:46:11 ◼   ► that's not what they're showing off. Like what they have is, or what they're saying

00:46:15 ◼   ► they're gonna have is, like, you can just use this functionality inside of it. It's

00:46:20 ◼   ► very confusing to me. Like, is there like a fluid.microsoft.com where you can go and

00:46:25 ◼   ► just start doing whatever you want, like a Dropbox paper?

00:46:28 ◼   ► No, I don't think there is.

00:46:31 ◼   ► Like I don't think that's the product that they're building.

00:46:33 ◼   ► And they're actually very light on details and actual demos right now. It feels to me

00:46:39 ◼   ► like they're trying to sell people on the idea and the concept still.

00:46:42 ◼   ► Yeah, there's a way to get to go and try it, but you have to have a very specific type of Microsoft account.

00:46:48 ◼   ► I was trying to log in here and it wouldn't let me.

00:46:51 ◼   ► So I have a few personal problems with this sort of idea.

00:46:56 ◼   ► And I guess I could boil them down to three separate types of issues.

00:47:01 ◼   ► My main problem, technically speaking, with this idea of you can embed anything you want, anywhere you want,

00:47:09 ◼   ► is that you don't have a tailored experience for anything anymore if you were to do that.

00:47:16 ◼   ► You end up in a situation where you can have a table in Word and you can have a task manager

00:47:22 ◼   ► inside your email client and you can have your email client inside of your presentation app.

00:47:26 ◼   ► And I'm very much a believer in the idea that, like, I like to use dedicated apps,

00:47:35 ◼   ► I like to use native apps and each app does something specific to that.

00:47:40 ◼   ► This idea of, yeah, let's just put everything together and

00:47:45 ◼   ► base everything off of plugins and you can have all kinds of experiences everywhere.

00:47:51 ◼   ► It just doesn't make for a well-designed core experience in my opinion.

00:47:55 ◼   ► Can I provide some real-time follow-up?

00:47:57 ◼   ► Sure.

00:47:57 ◼   ► The Fluid preview that you can sign up for if you have one of these specific type of Microsoft

00:48:03 ◼   ► things it looks just like a Dropbox paper document. So it's just like a blank thing and then you can

00:48:09 ◼   ► press a button and you get like "oh what do you want what type of content do you want to add?"

00:48:14 ◼   ► and it's like table, date, checklist, bulleted list, number line, like it's like a whole thing.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Then there is this that's their preview website but all of the stuff from the the big Verge article

00:48:23 ◼   ► just talks about integrating the functionality inside of our applications. Like this is why

00:48:28 ◼   ► why I'm getting so confused, because I can't work out what they're actually trying to show

00:48:32 ◼   ► me.

00:48:33 ◼   ► >> And in the Verge article, they're talking about, like, how it's going to be so easy

00:48:38 ◼   ► for developers to just adopt the Fluid framework by, like, replacing a static string in their

00:48:44 ◼   ► app, and it's going to -- and it provides, like -- like, it's going to be instant, like,

00:48:50 ◼   ► a web-based -- and I'm quoting -- a web-based framework that you can use to instantly make

00:48:55 ◼   ► your apps collaborative.

00:48:56 ◼   ► First of all, like nothing is instant, right?

00:49:00 ◼   ► Nothing is just, oh, it's just a single line of code

00:49:02 ◼   ► and you're gonna make your app collaborative.

00:49:04 ◼   ► Like that does not exist.

00:49:05 ◼   ► Like it's that idea of, oh, just put in a single line

00:49:09 ◼   ► and suddenly you have a collaborative app.

00:49:11 ◼   ► No, coding does not work like that.

00:49:13 ◼   ► It just doesn't, it's not true.

00:49:15 ◼   ► - And that also kind of makes it sound like Microsoft

00:49:19 ◼   ► want to own like web collaboration.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Like now they're just like,

00:49:25 ◼   ► "Oh, don't worry about building it, just drop in wood in the middle."

00:49:32 ◼   ► I am very skeptical, personally, it's just my nature.

00:49:35 ◼   ► I'm very skeptical of anything that is heavily reliant on plugins,

00:49:42 ◼   ► because plugins are a good way to start poking holes in your system

00:49:49 ◼   ► and add failure points to whatever you have.

00:49:53 ◼   ► whether it's a WordPress installation,

00:49:56 ◼   ► whether it's a custom, like an app that you've made

00:50:01 ◼   ► and you wanna let others extend with plugins.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Like plugins by their own nature, they add complication,

00:50:09 ◼   ► they add complexity and they add failure points.

00:50:12 ◼   ► And everything that is so heavily based on plugins,

00:50:15 ◼   ► every time I see them I'm like, mm-mm, I don't trust that.

00:50:19 ◼   ► You know, just what I am.

00:50:21 ◼   ► Finally, I want to mention how, at a very basic level, this idea, it sounded progressive in the

00:50:28 ◼   ► 90s with OpenDoc, and it sounds progressive now. It sounds kind of... Honestly, if you just

00:50:33 ◼   ► take the concept of it for what it is, it sounds kind of awesome.

00:50:38 ◼   ► Your work is always available to you no matter the app that you're using. So moving away from

00:50:43 ◼   ► this concept of individual applications as silos, I think it's kind of neat, conceptually speaking.

00:50:51 ◼   ► But in practice, I just don't think it's the way that humans like to think and operate computers.

00:50:58 ◼   ► I believe that at a fundamental level, people think in compartments, people think with boxes,

00:51:07 ◼   ► right? And I think it's only natural for a person to say, "Okay, I need to write an email,

00:51:12 ◼   ► therefore I open my email client, and I need to write something for school, therefore I open

00:51:18 ◼   ► pages or words. I think it's only natural, because it's what we do when you think

00:51:22 ◼   ► about it, when you take a look at the bigger picture, it's what we do as humans.

00:51:26 ◼   ► We compartmentalize tasks and things to do, and just the way that we do

00:51:33 ◼   ► anything, we categorize things. Like, I put it in the document, but like, look at

00:51:40 ◼   ► your home right now. You have rooms, you have a kitchen, you have a living room,

00:51:45 ◼   ► you have maybe a garage where you keep your tools and your workbench, and you wouldn't

00:51:50 ◼   ► want to be in a situation where your partner comes back home and finds you cooking pancakes

00:51:55 ◼   ► in your closet. And you're like, "What are you doing in there?"

00:51:58 ◼   ► I could do it anywhere! I could do it anywhere, because what is a

00:52:01 ◼   ► kitchen anymore, right? And I just don't think it's a good idea. I just don't think it's

00:52:07 ◼   ► what... I mean, you could do it, right? You could sure put a stove in your closet and

00:52:11 ◼   ► you could do pancakes in there. You could get one of those little all-like

00:52:12 ◼   ► conduction here, thanks. For sure you could do it or you could maybe go sleep in the garage

00:52:18 ◼   ► or you could you could do all kinds of things. I just don't think it would be optimal and honestly

00:52:23 ◼   ► I just don't think you will like it and I think all these concepts this fluid framework and open

00:52:30 ◼   ► doc and sometimes we see also these concept videos for this like this smart operating systems when

00:52:37 ◼   ► where you have no apps, all you have is projects and your work follows you around. You know what?

00:52:43 ◼   ► They look kind of pretty. I just don't think you will like it. I would hate it. Every time I see a

00:52:49 ◼   ► concept like that where it's like, oh, I've rebuilt the operating system. No, I like having things in

00:52:56 ◼   ► places. I will say, right, like if they built a tool. Yes, I like having things in places. That's

00:53:03 ◼   ► Exactly what it is. Yes. Right. Like I,

00:53:05 ◼   ► if they built a web tool that could incorporate all of this functionality into

00:53:10 ◼   ► one place.

00:53:11 ◼   ► So you have one collaborative place where you can make like all,

00:53:15 ◼   ► you can pull in all this functionality from different office stuff.

00:53:18 ◼   ► I think that's great. What I don't like is this idea of like,

00:53:21 ◼   ► you're in Word and now you can also put a PowerPoint in the middle of it.

00:53:26 ◼   ► It's like, that's not what I want. Right. Like, because then the,

00:53:31 ◼   ► The fluid thing is like, well, that becomes its own thing and its own place.

00:53:36 ◼   ► Right. You have this place where you go.

00:53:38 ◼   ► And in that place, in the collaborative environment you've built,

00:53:41 ◼   ► you can do whatever you want, but you keep specific types of work in that place.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Right. Like that's where that stuff goes.

00:53:48 ◼   ► It's like I don't write in Google Docs.

00:53:51 ◼   ► Google Docs is where my collaborative documents go for sharing stuff for shows.

00:53:56 ◼   ► If I want to write something, I will use something like notes

00:54:00 ◼   ► or Bear or IARiter, right? Because functionally they are the same thing, but they're silos for

00:54:07 ◼   ► where specific types of work goes. So even if you have this web tool called Fluid, which lets you

00:54:15 ◼   ► seamlessly switch between different types of functionality and different types of documents,

00:54:20 ◼   ► that's great, but that's its own thing? Not that now I can put a to-do list in my email,

00:54:27 ◼   ► which seems like hell. I don't want to put to-do lists everywhere, right? I don't need to do that.

00:54:34 ◼   ► I have my to-do manager where they go. So it's an interesting idea. I think people get excited

00:54:41 ◼   ► about this idea of like, "Oh, they're going to kill Google Docs." And it's like, "Yeah,

00:54:44 ◼   ► but I actually don't think that's what they want to do." They want to make Office absolutely

00:54:52 ◼   ► dependent from like other people completely dependent on office, right?

00:54:56 ◼   ► Like they want developers to integrate this functionality into their

00:55:01 ◼   ► applications. So everyone needs to have office 365.

00:55:05 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, it's yeah, that's their play here, right? It's it's.

00:55:09 ◼   ► Yeah, which is totally fine if that's what they want to do.

00:55:12 ◼   ► I'm just not sure that I want.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Yeah, but you're not a big company with people making reports all the time.

00:55:16 ◼   ► We are the target market for really good collaboration tools, right?

00:55:20 ◼   ► Like building a really good online collaboration tool, we're totally that.

00:55:25 ◼   ► But when also not the people using Microsoft Teams and integrating our shared list in Microsoft

00:55:30 ◼   ► Teams, that's a different customer.

00:55:33 ◼   ► I think something you said about people want these categories, they want these boxes to

00:55:37 ◼   ► go into, that's what we've been trained to do not only on the desktop, but since the

00:55:41 ◼   ► very beginning in mobile.

00:55:44 ◼   ► It's why I struggle with apps like Drafts or other things, like you start one place

00:55:48 ◼   ► and you send things elsewhere, it's like, I'm just going to open the mail app, right?

00:55:52 ◼   ► And it's not that those apps don't have a place, but for me, I tend to work in that

00:55:58 ◼   ► older way. Like, you know, I'm going to open the app, then I'm going to start stuff in,

00:56:01 ◼   ► and that's where I'm going to go.

00:56:02 ◼   ► Yeah, like, I think it would be fair to say that iOS and Android are even more like this

00:56:09 ◼   ► than Mac and Windows, right? Because the operating systems have been built that way. They have

00:56:14 ◼   ► built app first. Programs were different, right? Because you can have multiple versions of the

00:56:23 ◼   ► same application running at once, multiple windows all over the place. That's only in its

00:56:28 ◼   ► mere infancy on the iPad, right? And probably not implemented that well, as we mentioned, right?

00:56:36 ◼   ► Like, they could be better and different, and we should have these locked spaces and that kind of

00:56:41 ◼   ► of idea, but apps are way more siloed on mobile platforms than they are on traditional platforms.

00:56:49 ◼   ► Yeah, and I guess, really, you could make the argument that as a species we are programmed to

00:56:56 ◼   ► think with boxes and categories. It's just like, it's the easiest way to approach life,

00:57:03 ◼   ► to categorize different things and different people in groups and responsibilities in groups,

00:57:09 ◼   ► like, everything goes into a group, into a box in our brain, and, like, without those

00:57:15 ◼   ► boxes, I think we would just fall prey to anxiety all the time, which is exactly how

00:57:21 ◼   ► I feel whenever I use something like Notion, because I can do anything I want, I just don't

00:57:26 ◼   ► know where to start, I don't know what the boundaries are, I cannot see the boxes that

00:57:29 ◼   ► I'm used to. And so, while this freedom is beautiful, conceptually speaking, and it's

00:57:37 ◼   ► quite the paradox, I guess, that it makes me feel less free because I just don't

00:57:43 ◼   ► know where to start. So that's how I've always felt about these tools and these

00:57:47 ◼   ► concepts where, oh, it doesn't matter, anything is anything, it doesn't matter,

00:57:53 ◼   ► and I'm like, no, give me some ground rules, because that's how I like to

00:57:58 ◼   ► operate as a person and as a computer user, like, the absence of rules just

00:58:04 ◼   ► leads to madness. And this is like, these concepts and this fluid stuff, I look at it

00:58:09 ◼   ► and I'm like, man, I could never work like this. It would just be so confusing. I wouldn't

00:58:13 ◼   ► know where to start and we're just like, a confusing mess of things all over the place.

00:58:19 ◼   ► No, no, no, that's no way to use a computer for me. So, I don't know. Maybe I'm getting

00:58:23 ◼   ► old. I don't think I'm getting old because this idea was tried before. I think I'm right.

00:58:26 ◼   ► I don't think I'm old. I think I'm right. So, modularity. Can be a beautiful thing,

00:58:31 ◼   ► also definitely like you know this is the the part of it that I don't

00:58:35 ◼   ► necessarily appreciate. We'll see how it goes for Microsoft you know open dot got

00:58:39 ◼   ► killed when you know who came back to Apple so see how it goes. Let's take our

00:58:45 ◼   ► second break how about that? Go for it. That sound good? I want to talk about my

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01:00:09 ◼   ► alright so next up in our ongoing series of anticipating WWDC we are four weeks

01:00:16 ◼   ► away now right four weeks two days something like that

01:00:20 ◼   ► or a month and two days, right?

01:00:22 ◼   ► Yeah, 32 days.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Excellent.

01:00:24 ◼   ► We're going to turn to watchOS today.

01:00:28 ◼   ► We're going to talk about watchOS.

01:00:30 ◼   ► I'm not sure if we're going to

01:00:31 ◼   ► I don't think we're going to go to every platform like this,

01:00:34 ◼   ► but watchOS is kind of different because it is a smaller platform.

01:00:37 ◼   ► So rather than like breaking it up into little chunks

01:00:40 ◼   ► and talking about things that might be across iOS, MacOS,

01:00:43 ◼   ► we're just going to talk about watchOS 7.

01:00:46 ◼   ► One of the reasons that we're going to do this today is because underscore

01:00:49 ◼   ► David Smith published a blog post which did a lot of the work for us because nobody, I

01:00:56 ◼   ► don't think anybody knows watchOS like David does. Underscore has made many, many watch

01:01:03 ◼   ► apps and really knows the platform. The article itself has a lot more in it than we're going

01:01:10 ◼   ► to talk about today because there's a lot of developer focused things that if you're

01:01:14 ◼   ► a watchOS developer would be more important to you. I think we're just going to focus

01:01:19 ◼   ► on the customer focused things. So I'll go through these one by one and we can stop wherever

01:01:25 ◼   ► you guys want to want to talk about them. So the first is sleep tracking. So this is

01:01:31 ◼   ► something that a lot of people wanted. It seems like it's kind of been waiting for one

01:01:35 ◼   ► of two things for Apple either to have the software just right or to have the hardware

01:01:38 ◼   ► just right to be able to take the battery hit that this will inevitably give to watches,

01:01:43 ◼   ► right, if they're going to be on all night. This is why one of the reasons I believe Federico

01:01:47 ◼   ► So you have two watches, right? Because sleep tracking requires that for you?

01:01:51 ◼   ► Yup. That's why.

01:01:52 ◼   ► Because you've got to charge the watch or swap the watch, right? If you want to do sleep

01:01:57 ◼   ► tracking because you're going to have it on 24 hours a day rather than like 14 or something.

01:02:03 ◼   ► But one of the things that I really liked that Underscore mentioned is that adding in

01:02:07 ◼   ► sleep tracking could add in the concept of maybe a fourth ring to the activity rings

01:02:13 ◼   ► called recovery and this could tie in of a few different things.

01:02:16 ◼   ► It could tie in with workouts, right?

01:02:18 ◼   ► And the fact that your body needs to recover after workouts.

01:02:21 ◼   ► It could tie in with stress measurements that it's doing to basically say like

01:02:25 ◼   ► how recovered are you and could maybe help with workout planning.

01:02:29 ◼   ► And I thought that this was a really nice and interesting idea of rather than just

01:02:34 ◼   ► adding the sleep tracking functionality to the watch,

01:02:40 ◼   ► it would also integrate more deeply into the idea of what WatchOS does.

01:02:45 ◼   ► Because you would be able to make better decisions for how you would work out

01:02:51 ◼   ► based on how recovered you are, and sleep would definitely be a big factor of that.

01:02:56 ◼   ► If you hadn't slept enough, you can't work out as well, maybe.

01:02:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree. I'm just trying to think of what other factors could tie into this recovery idea.

01:03:05 ◼   ► Maybe there could be third party apps that could generate the information.

01:03:10 ◼   ► I don't know what, so you could use maybe a workout app that knows that you had a particularly

01:03:16 ◼   ► hard workout yesterday or an easy workout yesterday and that will allow for a different

01:03:21 ◼   ► recovery level, that kind of thing, which is interesting.

01:03:23 ◼   ► This also actually then adds into another point that David made about custom rings.

01:03:27 ◼   ► So what if you could track specific things like maybe you don't care so much about standing

01:03:33 ◼   ► but you do care about your step count or your water intake throughout a day. And you could

01:03:38 ◼   ► maybe have activity rings that track the things that you want rather than the three that Apple

01:03:42 ◼   ► have defined. It'd be spectacular. I think that's a great idea. I'd love to have something like

01:03:47 ◼   ► mindful minutes in there. And you could maybe, I mean, they could do it where you have different

01:03:52 ◼   ► activity ring sets, right? So days that, um, a recovery day, I've got things like water and

01:03:58 ◼   ► sleep and mindful minutes and then days when I'm working out maybe I do want

01:04:02 ◼   ► activity and exercise and stand. I think that could be a really nice way to

01:04:07 ◼   ► broaden what the watch tracks. You can already track a lot of that stuff now

01:04:12 ◼   ► through third-party apps. They seem to open it up. Yeah it's interesting that so much

01:04:16 ◼   ► of the Apple Watch's identity is based around the activity rings but those

01:04:19 ◼   ► three rings have never changed. I think they need to be careful with this if

01:04:24 ◼   ► they do it because I don't think they should move away from the fact that you

01:04:28 ◼   ► can buy an Apple Watch and it's got the three rings and they're on by default and it's all

01:04:31 ◼   ► you need to care about. I think it would be a neat addition for power users to say now

01:04:36 ◼   ► you can customize your rings and you can have like custom rings and you can customize all

01:04:40 ◼   ► the metrics there. But I think for most people, they just want to buy an Apple Watch, have

01:04:43 ◼   ► the three rings and they want to follow Apple's recommendations for increasing the goals or

01:04:48 ◼   ► decreasing the goals of each ring. Well, the activity ring in this case is the only, you

01:04:53 ◼   ► know, that can be taken up or down.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like you wouldn't want to change the default, right? Like it ships with the three,

01:04:59 ◼   ► but in the activity app maybe you could customize it, right? But like that...

01:05:03 ◼   ► Those three were picked for a reason. They are a really good place to start,

01:05:08 ◼   ► but they're maybe not what every person cares about.

01:05:11 ◼   ► I agree. I also don't think that if they do end up adding rings... I've seen some people share

01:05:17 ◼   ► the idea that maybe a slip ring should be the new default fourth one, and I disagree with that.

01:05:23 ◼   ► If only because sleep is a, like, it's very hard to make any assumptions about sleep for other people.

01:05:31 ◼   ► And by this I mean that the watch already makes some pretty broad assumptions about, like, oh,

01:05:37 ◼   ► you need to stand 12 hours a day. But to make an assumption about another person's sleep schedule

01:05:44 ◼   ► and to have a default value for a sleep ring, you need to account for what if, you know,

01:05:51 ◼   ► what if I'm the mother of a young child and I cannot sleep six hours per night anymore?

01:05:59 ◼   ► Or what if I work the night shift and my sleep schedule right now is all messed up because of

01:06:05 ◼   ► this? Yeah, sleep is a hard one. Like, all the other ones are so basic, right? Like, 12 hours

01:06:11 ◼   ► standing up a day, you know, and 30 minutes of activity. Like, they seem to be pretty simple.

01:06:18 ◼   ► like they're not very... for a lot of people it wouldn't be hard to miss those, right?

01:06:23 ◼   ► But to say eight hours a night, like that's not gonna work.

01:06:30 ◼   ► Exactly. And I personally cannot get eight hours of sleep anymore, like eight consecutive hours of

01:06:36 ◼   ► sleep. Like I just... it just doesn't happen anymore. And if I sleep more than seven hours,

01:06:40 ◼   ► I wake up and I have a headache and I feel super groggy and everything. Like it just doesn't happen

01:06:45 ◼   ► anymore. But it's also something that like, what if you don't get the sleep ring full,

01:06:52 ◼   ► then what? You're gonna have to take a forced nap during the day? No, I don't want to take

01:06:58 ◼   ► sleep.

01:06:59 ◼   ► That's why I think Underscore's recommendation of sleep could be a factor in another ring,

01:07:06 ◼   ► right? That could be the idea of recovery. Underscore's in the Relay FM members Discord

01:07:13 ◼   ► as we're recording live and says that sleep quality, heart rate variability, resting heart

01:07:18 ◼   ► rate are also good recovers of how like indicators of stress or recovered you are. So like that

01:07:23 ◼   ► recovery ring could be a lot of things. However, at the same time, all of those things still

01:07:29 ◼   ► feel like it could be tricky to achieve that one in a streak mentality if so many things

01:07:36 ◼   ► are factoring into it. Like what do you do to bump the number up if you play that game?

01:07:41 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a very fine line to walk between gamifying the system and just making people

01:07:48 ◼   ► feel stressed and unaccomplished for this stuff, you know? And like, what if it's like a difficult

01:07:55 ◼   ► period for me right now, especially now with all the things going on? It's like, yes, I'm more

01:07:59 ◼   ► stressed, don't make me feel bad about that. You know, so I get it and I do want to, of course I

01:08:05 ◼   ► I want to have native sleep tracking.

01:08:07 ◼   ► But to have it as a ring that is for sleep alone,

01:08:11 ◼   ► which is an idea that I've seen shared on Twitter with, again,

01:08:14 ◼   ► some concepts and all that kind of stuff,

01:08:17 ◼   ► I think it could be tricky to make it work and make

01:08:19 ◼   ► assumptions that will work for everybody

01:08:22 ◼   ► and without running into the issue of making

01:08:26 ◼   ► people feel bad.

01:08:27 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:08:29 ◼   ► It could be part of a bigger recovery ring, which is--

01:08:33 ◼   ► I think it's a more interesting idea.

01:08:35 ◼   ► Then again, it all comes down to the data

01:08:37 ◼   ► that you're collecting there.

01:08:38 ◼   ► Like, what is recovery for you?

01:08:41 ◼   ► Like, how do you know that I'm not stressed?

01:08:44 ◼   ► Is that because of new sensors that you have?

01:08:48 ◼   ► And like, is it something that I need to tell you?

01:08:51 ◼   ► Like, I've also seen like these mood trackers, for example,

01:08:54 ◼   ► right, that multiple times during the day,

01:08:56 ◼   ► they ask you, are you happy?

01:08:57 ◼   ► Are you feeling stressed or relieved?

01:08:59 ◼   ► Like, sure, I just don't think it's something

01:09:02 ◼   ► that I want to do all the time. So let's actually touch on that because one of the

01:09:08 ◼   ► things that Underscore mentions is more mental health applications for the watch in general

01:09:12 ◼   ► and I saw a separate rumor about watchOS 7 potentially getting a blood oxygen sensor

01:09:19 ◼   ► that apparently could help with stress detection. Okay so see that's something. I don't completely

01:09:23 ◼   ► understand how that works but like I'll just take it on the surface. Just science man.

01:09:28 ◼   ► Yes, science. But like, you know, if I would, I think I would like my watch to be able to

01:09:34 ◼   ► understand how stressed I am. I don't know if I would. I think I would really need to

01:09:38 ◼   ► understand how that made me feel. I do feel like my watch telling me I'm stressed might

01:09:45 ◼   ► make me more stressed.

01:09:48 ◼   ► But I'm not sure yet. And in the same vein of like, if it only is recognising when I'm

01:09:53 ◼   ► in intense moments if it can provide me with things to do, you know, more than just, as

01:10:01 ◼   ► Underscore mentions, more than just to breathe. Maybe there's like, as Stephen was talking

01:10:05 ◼   ► about, mindfulness, meditation built in like the Apple could do to try and help me calm

01:10:10 ◼   ► down. That might be good, but I also do feel like if I'm feeling particularly stressed,

01:10:15 ◼   ► my watch sound like, "Hey, you're stressed." I could imagine many times of me taking my

01:10:19 ◼   ► watch off and launching it across the room. So I feel like I'm not sure yet how that would make me

01:10:26 ◼   ► feel but could be interesting if done correctly. But I think this honestly like this is quite

01:10:34 ◼   ► similar to sleep in that I think these things would differ for a lot of people as to what they

01:10:39 ◼   ► might want and I think this might be why some of these things have taken maybe more time than we

01:10:46 ◼   ► we would have expected to come to the Apple watch because I think trying to implement

01:10:51 ◼   ► them for a large amount of people rather than people that opt in to get third party applications

01:10:57 ◼   ► that do this stuff is I expect quite a tricky prospect. Yeah. At rest days, this is one

01:11:03 ◼   ► that should be added. I can't believe they haven't added it. Like if you are injured

01:11:08 ◼   ► and have a 1000 day exercise streak and you've twisted your ankle, right? Or like broke your

01:11:16 ◼   ► leg or you're sick. Losing that streak feels so mean. The concept of rest days exists in

01:11:25 ◼   ► exercise. It is a very normal thing that you will take a rest day, that you won't exercise

01:11:31 ◼   ► every day to give yourself a break if you want one. Sometimes this can be a mental health

01:11:36 ◼   ► thing, right? Like, "I don't want to exercise today. It will make me feel better than not

01:11:41 ◼   ► Like not having rest days is really wild to me. Like it really is wild.

01:11:46 ◼   ► Yeah, it's surprised, very surprising to me that it's still not part of the

01:11:51 ◼   ► activity stuff and especially like right now I sure hope that you know the

01:11:57 ◼   ► lockdown and a global pandemic must, I guess it must have shown Apple why this

01:12:01 ◼   ► isn't like a feature that needs to happen because maybe you know you

01:12:07 ◼   ► haven't been able to go for a run or you haven't been able to go to the gym and

01:12:10 ◼   ► Maybe you cannot have a gym inside your apartment.

01:12:14 ◼   ► Like, this is a feature that, and maybe, again,

01:12:18 ◼   ► you're just sick and you cannot get out of bed

01:12:20 ◼   ► and you're not crazy like Kyle, you know,

01:12:22 ◼   ► goes for a run even if he's running a fever.

01:12:25 ◼   ► Like, most people don't do that, right?

01:12:28 ◼   ► I mean, I would die if I do that, so.

01:12:31 ◼   ► - It could be argued that maybe you shouldn't, right?

01:12:34 ◼   ► Like, everybody's different, but--

01:12:35 ◼   ► Sure, and not everybody is, you know, 23 years old and super strong, but yeah, I mean, you know,

01:12:43 ◼   ► when you're sick you likely want to stay in bed and just, you know, hope to get better. So, yes,

01:12:49 ◼   ► a rest day is a not so... Most physicians will tell you that you're not supposed to work out heavily

01:12:55 ◼   ► every single day, right? They will tell you that you actually do need a past day in your work,

01:13:02 ◼   ► in your workout routine because that's how the body recovers. And you know when tissues recover

01:13:07 ◼   ► and muscles, you build muscle during those days. So I'm very surprised that this is still not a

01:13:17 ◼   ► native feature of the whole activity system by Apple. And I think that people think about the

01:13:23 ◼   ► exercise ring as the hard thing to achieve here, but I think it's the move ring because the move

01:13:28 ◼   ► The movering adjusts based on you. The exercise ring is fixed at 30 but the

01:13:34 ◼   ► movering is changing based on the amount of calories that you burn based on your

01:13:38 ◼   ► movement and it will increase and decrease over time and there's been many

01:13:43 ◼   ► people I've seen like online talking about the fact that like a 400 for you

01:13:48 ◼   ► and a 400 for me are different. Like the numbers the same but what that

01:13:52 ◼   ► watch is gauging as to what it would take me to burn that is different from

01:13:56 ◼   ► person to person. So I think that that's when, like if you're changing your moving and doing

01:14:01 ◼   ► what the watch is suggesting that you do to be more and more active, like that gets harder

01:14:06 ◼   ► and harder to achieve and if you're sick or you want to take a break, like maybe you can't

01:14:12 ◼   ► now and that seems very strange.

01:14:16 ◼   ► Improved workout detection is something. I think this is an interesting one. Like the

01:14:21 ◼   ► automatic workout detection exists but could always be better. The Apple Watch can do very

01:14:29 ◼   ► interesting things to when I'm doing a workout, right? To be like, "Oh, we think you've moved

01:14:35 ◼   ► this way and this way and this way based on what we know about this type of workout."

01:14:40 ◼   ► Could that be expanded? If I'm doing yoga and haven't told the watch I'm doing yoga,

01:14:45 ◼   ► could it know? When I'm doing yoga, it knows I'm doing yoga. It's tracking yoga movement,

01:14:50 ◼   ► But like, could it? No. I don't usually move my arms around and around in this way, right?

01:14:55 ◼   ► Like, could you be doing something with the senses to be like, "This is abnormal," and ask me then,

01:15:01 ◼   ► as opposed to if I'm just working up a real sweat, you know? Like, is there more types of workouts

01:15:07 ◼   ► that could be detected? Because whenever I do yoga, I always forget to tell my Apple Watch.

01:15:13 ◼   ► Every single time, I just forget. I wonder if it could apply some of the same logic where it says,

01:15:18 ◼   ► "hey you've used this app this time of day" like "hey you seem to do yoga every other day at 8 am

01:15:25 ◼   ► maybe i could start suggesting so you don't forget to hit the button" that could be a nice middle ground

01:15:31 ◼   ► true watch independence so this has gone a long way right like this with being able to have apps

01:15:40 ◼   ► installed or like that just watch apps and stuff like that but there were two parts of the watch

01:15:45 ◼   ► independence that David mentioned that I thought were that seemed to make sense to me. Being able

01:15:50 ◼   ► to set up an Apple Watch without an iPhone, that's an eventual thing. I don't think we're there yet,

01:15:55 ◼   ► but I think that will happen one day. And also having CloudKit adapted for watchOS more. So

01:16:00 ◼   ► you could sync, the watch can sync with the phone when it's close, but also sync with the cloud

01:16:06 ◼   ► directly when it can't. So having more CloudKit stuff could be good for watchOS, I guess.

01:16:12 ◼   ► The thing about the watch being set up independently from the phone is that

01:16:15 ◼   ► fundamentally changes the watch's position in the world right now the watch is a satellite to the phone and

01:16:22 ◼   ► I think when they say hey, okay

01:16:25 ◼   ► You can now set this up on its own then the watch becomes its own product in a way the same thing happened with what?

01:16:30 ◼   ► Ios 5 I think where the PC free right?

01:16:33 ◼   ► Hey, you can set up a phone an iPhone without a Mac or a PC

01:16:38 ◼   ► You can install software updates without iTunes right and they added those things over time

01:16:41 ◼   ► I don't know the last time I plugged my iPhone into a computer. It's probably been years, right?

01:16:46 ◼   ► And I think the watch will get there. I just I don't know if it's quite ready

01:16:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I just figure with iCloud, you know, like you can still tie them all together in a way

01:16:56 ◼   ► But just not needing it for that initial setup could be interesting

01:17:00 ◼   ► Last two things these are things that we've spoken about recently, but they're just worth mentioning here

01:17:05 ◼   ► The always on during workouts. I think I mentioned this maybe last week or the week before

01:17:11 ◼   ► that the screen dims, right? And shows that little digital clock, which I hate.

01:17:15 ◼   ► I think during workouts it should be possible to just leave some kind of always on screen,

01:17:22 ◼   ► which is better, more useful, and more customizable watch faces in general.

01:17:27 ◼   ► Like, I think this needs a huge amount of work done to it. Being able to have more

01:17:32 ◼   ► complication types and more watch faces and have them be a lot more flexible than they are right

01:17:36 ◼   ► now is a big project, but I think a much, much, much needed project.

01:17:42 ◼   ► Especially like David mentions in his wishlist the ability to have, for complications, to

01:17:49 ◼   ► be able to export like multiple versions of the same complication basically, which is

01:17:54 ◼   ► definitely something that I noticed when I was playing around with WatchSmith and also

01:17:58 ◼   ► with other apps. Apple apps can do this, you can have multiple complications for the same

01:18:03 ◼   ► that's not possible for third parties yet and it does feel like something that

01:18:07 ◼   ► should exist on the platform for watch face customization because I would

01:18:11 ◼   ► love to have like multiple complications for say you know the timezone thing in

01:18:19 ◼   ► WatchSmith right so definitely more freedom there to have multiple versions

01:18:26 ◼   ► of multiple complications from the same app that would be lovely. I do have some

01:18:31 ◼   ► additional things to share and a quick story to tell if you guys are okay with

01:18:37 ◼   ► it. Of course. I actually have photographic proof of the story. Is this

01:18:43 ◼   ► gonna be another like really relatable man of the people story? I think I think

01:18:48 ◼   ► so but you also need to wait for me to send you like it'll happen in a few

01:18:54 ◼   ► minutes so stay with me. So I mentioned in terms of like other watch

01:18:59 ◼   ► features that I would like to see. Better and easier and faster software updates, that's a given.

01:19:05 ◼   ► I also would like to use the digital crown to scroll through different sets of complications

01:19:18 ◼   ► for the same watch face. So right now the digital crown, I thought that it was unused. Myke actually

01:19:26 ◼   ► mentioned that you can use the crown to wake the screen, like you can dim it up and down,

01:19:32 ◼   ► and I totally forgot that this existed because I never do it. I always wake the watch the

01:19:36 ◼   ► old-fashioned way by just flicking my wrist. So I totally forgot that the crown was an

01:19:40 ◼   ► option to wake the display. What I would like to do, basically, is I always want to use

01:19:46 ◼   ► the same watch face. However, I feel like I want to cycle through different sets of

01:19:51 ◼   ► complications either during the day or based on what I'm doing. Like, I never want to switch

01:19:56 ◼   ► between faces by long pressing and swiping, like, I find that so inconvenient and kind of,

01:20:01 ◼   ► you know, that gesture I really don't like. Instead, I want to keep the same watch face,

01:20:05 ◼   ► but I want to basically alternate between different sets of complications for the same

01:20:11 ◼   ► face, and I figured why not use the digital crown, maybe have some Aptiq feedback action going to,

01:20:18 ◼   ► to make that more tactile.

01:20:20 ◼   ► You could actually feel the swapping between complications.

01:20:24 ◼   ► I don't know, it's just something that I would like to have

01:20:26 ◼   ► instead of having to press down and recreate my watch face

01:20:29 ◼   ► and swipe to the other watch face with other complications.

01:20:32 ◼   ► Just let me customize one,

01:20:34 ◼   ► and let me have different sets of complications

01:20:38 ◼   ► for the same face.

01:20:39 ◼   ► And use the crown to swap between them,

01:20:41 ◼   ► because I think this could actually be more useful

01:20:43 ◼   ► than using the crown to wake the screen.

01:20:46 ◼   ► I mean, you already have a relatively easy and reliable gesture to do that, so...

01:20:51 ◼   ► I don't know, it could be an option.

01:20:54 ◼   ► I want to have a grid view for the dock.

01:20:56 ◼   ► I really dislike the vertical carousel for the dock.

01:21:00 ◼   ► I just want to have some kind of grid view that shows me more thumbnails at the same

01:21:05 ◼   ► time and that is faster to navigate.

01:21:07 ◼   ► Would you imagine you would be tapping things to open them, or would it scroll like left-right-down,

01:21:12 ◼   ► left-right-down, left-right-down, you know?

01:21:14 ◼   ► Like if you're scoring with the digital crown.

01:21:16 ◼   ► I would imagine, like, first of all, I would imagine a horizontal display, not a vertical

01:21:22 ◼   ► list. And basically something like the app switcher is what I'm thinking of from the

01:21:29 ◼   ► iPad. But of course, I adapted to watchOS, but like a grid of tiny windows that I can

01:21:37 ◼   ► choose. It just feels very slow to browse the dock right now and to very carefully scroll

01:21:43 ◼   ► this list of windows, I just dislike it. I think it could be easier and faster to use

01:21:49 ◼   ► as a grid. And I think that's the main list. There's one last feature that I would like

01:21:57 ◼   ► to talk about and to show you photographic proof. So I would really like to have a standard

01:22:06 ◼   ► QWERTY keyboard with support for multiple languages. I think it's absolutely wild that

01:22:13 ◼   ► Apple still does not offer a system keyboard for the Apple Watch. And if you go to the

01:22:18 ◼   ► Watch App Store, you're going to find that the Flick Type keyboard is consistently at

01:22:23 ◼   ► the top of the paid charts, exactly because people just want a keyboard to type their

01:22:29 ◼   ► things. Yes, you can have the scribbling feature, yes, you can have dictation, but really, sometimes

01:22:34 ◼   ► you just want to press letters without having to draw them, especially because I cannot

01:22:39 ◼   ► seem to get some letters right with the scribble thing. And I have a story to tell here. So

01:22:45 ◼   ► during the first couple of weeks of lockdown here in Italy, doing online grocery shopping

01:22:53 ◼   ► was basically impossible. Amazon Prime now was not working, and the websites for our

01:22:59 ◼   ► local supermarkets were also not working due to the excessive demand. So once a week or

01:23:06 ◼   ► twice a week I would have to go out and actually do the grocery shopping myself.

01:23:10 ◼   ► And usually I go to this relatively small grocery shop that doesn't have everything that we need,

01:23:18 ◼   ► but has the essentials, until we reach the point where I needed to get the essentials,

01:23:22 ◼   ► which meant I needed to go to the real big supermarket. But to go to that supermarket,

01:23:28 ◼   ► I knew that there was going to be a line. So imagine, picture Federico a couple of months ago,

01:23:35 ◼   ► wearing a mask and gloves. Where a lot of people are right now. Exactly. Where a lot of people

01:23:40 ◼   ► sadly are right now. So mask on, gloves on, and waiting in line in the parking lot of a supermarket

01:23:48 ◼   ► for one hour and 15 minutes under the sun. So I was sweaty and covered with a mask and gloves and

01:23:58 ◼   ► I could actually see the sweat dripping out of my gloves and into my wrist which was super gross.

01:24:03 ◼   ► it was very hot. And I was standing in line with my empty car in the parking lot, waiting

01:24:10 ◼   ► because they were just letting a couple of people in at a time. So at some point I was

01:24:16 ◼   ► just browsing Twitter, actually. It was one of those few times where I was replying to

01:24:20 ◼   ► people. You were replying to tweets. I was replying to tweets and my phone died. Like,

01:24:28 ◼   ► My iPhone just went black screen, it just straight up died, it rebooted, and it got

01:24:35 ◼   ► stuck with a spinner in the middle of the screen, and it wouldn't do anything.

01:24:42 ◼   ► Like I tried to, like a combination of pressing the physical keys on the iPhone and it wouldn't

01:24:48 ◼   ► do anything, it was just a spinner.

01:24:51 ◼   ► And the longer it kept spinning, the harder the phone got.

01:24:56 ◼   ► I've had this.

01:24:57 ◼   ► I realized that something terrible is happening here.

01:25:01 ◼   ► And I remembered that I read somewhere

01:25:04 ◼   ► that there was a specific combination of pressing

01:25:06 ◼   ► the volume and the side button that

01:25:10 ◼   ► would get my phone unstuck.

01:25:12 ◼   ► But of course, because my phone died,

01:25:14 ◼   ► I couldn't Google that combination of things to press.

01:25:19 ◼   ► And I didn't want to ask random people

01:25:21 ◼   ► to let me use their phone, because it

01:25:22 ◼   ► was the first couple of weeks of lockdown.

01:25:24 ◼   ► everybody was freaked out by, you know, just being near other people. So I needed

01:25:31 ◼   ► to tell something to Silvia, but my phone was dead and I remembered, "Oh, this is

01:25:37 ◼   ► actually a perfect use case for my watch." Sorry, because I do have a cellular watch

01:25:43 ◼   ► and I can see that it's actually connected right now and I

01:25:47 ◼   ► can send her an iMessage to tell her something about the grocery

01:25:54 ◼   ► that I needed to buy. Except I opened iMessage and I realized this message is way too long

01:26:00 ◼   ► to be scribbled down by drawing the letters. And I also kept getting the letters wrong.

01:26:06 ◼   ► And I tried to use FlickType because I had it installed on my watch, but it was not letting

01:26:11 ◼   ► me type anything in Italian. Because I don't think it's supported, or because it was just

01:26:17 ◼   ► defaulting to English. And the more I kept pressing letters on the QWERTY keyboard, the

01:26:22 ◼   ► more it kept auto-correcting to something else. And I was getting very frustrated because

01:26:30 ◼   ► I just couldn't type the message that I needed to tell Sylvia. So I realized, okay, I'm gonna

01:26:37 ◼   ► be looking ridiculous right now, especially because I'm also wearing a mask and I cannot

01:26:41 ◼   ► take the mask off, but I'm gonna have to dictate this message on my watch in front of a lot

01:26:47 ◼   ► other people, which I'm very, you know, self-conscious of doing still in public.

01:26:52 ◼   ► So sure enough, I enable dictation and I start dictating this message. And the way that dictation

01:26:58 ◼   ► works is, as soon as you press done, you cannot review the message. The message is sent instantly

01:27:04 ◼   ► to the other person, right? So I will now share with you a screenshot of the message that I sent.

01:27:11 ◼   ► Can I put this in the show notes? Yes, you can. Can you tell me what you were trying to say? Like,

01:27:15 ◼   ► Like can you see? I honestly, I honestly don't remember. I do remember. I do remember. I

01:27:22 ◼   ► was telling Sylvia that my phone died and that I couldn't get it to work anymore and

01:27:29 ◼   ► that if she want and that I still had that she couldn't call me, but that I had the grocery

01:27:36 ◼   ► list available in reminders. Okay. That's what I was going to tell her. Now you were

01:27:41 ◼   ► I assume it's in Italian, I assume.

01:27:43 ◼   ► I was dictating in Italian, of course, because I mean, I already look ridiculous, right?

01:27:47 ◼   ► Talking into my watch in public.

01:27:49 ◼   ► Imagine talking to the watch in public in English, right?

01:27:52 ◼   ► In Rome.

01:27:53 ◼   ► As clearly an Italian person who has been talking to other people in line in Italian,

01:27:58 ◼   ► suddenly started talking in English into his watch.

01:28:01 ◼   ► So as soon as you receive this screenshot, Myke, I want you to read it out loud.

01:28:06 ◼   ► Okay.

01:28:07 ◼   ► So...

01:28:08 ◼   ► This is what Sylvia received, and you can imagine her reaction.

01:28:14 ◼   ► Okay, Miss Empanada's telephone, on so I guess for chess when...

01:28:21 ◼   ► I need to do this again, this is gonna be really hard to do in one go.

01:28:25 ◼   ► Alright, okay, okay.

01:28:26 ◼   ► Okay, Miss Empanada's telephone, on so I guess...

01:28:29 ◼   ► Go slow, you need to...

01:28:33 ◼   ► Okay, Miss Empanada's telephone. On so I guess for chess, win the others.

01:28:38 ◼   ► Roddy of the Arlo, hey, send me that he keeps giving me some messages.

01:28:43 ◼   ► Miss Empanada's telephone! Oh my god, that's good. Oh wow.

01:28:54 ◼   ► All this to say, Apple, you do support multiple languages for dictation and typing on your iPhone.

01:29:03 ◼   ► Is it really that difficult to support multiple languages for dictation and a keyboard input mode on the watch?

01:29:10 ◼   ► Because I honestly don't want to be in this situation anymore.

01:29:13 ◼   ► So the problem there then is that it is taking in Italian and trying to translate it to English

01:29:21 ◼   ► based on what it thinks it's hearing. I don't even know how it's possible to get that result

01:29:27 ◼   ► because Italian doesn't sound like English, right?

01:29:32 ◼   ► I can't imagine. I mean, telephone is telefono, which I said.

01:29:37 ◼   ► I mean, like, obviously the occasional word, right? Like, is going to be...

01:29:42 ◼   ► Okay, mis empanadas. Like, I honestly... It's weird to me that, like, it even tries.

01:29:48 ◼   ► It's not just like, I don't know what you're saying, right? Like, it's very peculiar.

01:29:53 ◼   ► So, yeah, please give me a keyboard where I can choose to type in there in English or in Italian.

01:30:02 ◼   ► And it's so surprising because it's the kind of feature that Apple got right years ago

01:30:06 ◼   ► on the iPhone and the iPad.

01:30:08 ◼   ► And last year they added support for dictation in multiple languages in iOS 13.

01:30:13 ◼   ► So it's not something that doesn't exist.

01:30:16 ◼   ► It just doesn't exist on the watch.

01:30:18 ◼   ► And especially now that we have a cellular watch, with the freedom to use it without

01:30:21 ◼   ► the iPhone, I just think it's obvious that it needs to happen at some point.

01:30:29 ◼   ► So hopefully in watchOS 7.

01:30:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and then there was a whole back and forth between Sylvia and me later.

01:30:39 ◼   ► She got concerned, like she thought that somebody stole my phone, basically.

01:30:44 ◼   ► Apparently you can change the dictation language by force touching, that's what I'm being told in the Discord.

01:30:51 ◼   ► Oh, how would I know, right? Force touching? See, that's the problem. Just give me a button.

01:30:56 ◼   ► Is that too hard? Also, can you really change? So if I press on the microphone...

01:31:03 ◼   ► Oh, look at that! You can choose a language. Of course I had no idea.

01:31:06 ◼   ► So there you go.

01:31:08 ◼   ► Well, okay, so there's two things here. Yeah, okay, that's great. You can do that.

01:31:12 ◼   ► It should be detecting it. Like, Apple has a system for that. Like, it exists in iOS,

01:31:17 ◼   ► as you said, right? Like, the detection of a language. It would be good if you could

01:31:23 ◼   ► do that rather than needing to manage.

01:31:24 ◼   ► So all this time I could have dictated just...

01:31:26 ◼   ► You've got half the way there. Just by long pressing. Wow.

01:31:28 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. I think that says something about, you know, hiding functionality behind the

01:31:33 ◼   ► first press, but, you know, discussion for another time. So what I want to know, are

01:31:39 ◼   ► you now calling Sylvia "Miss Empanada's" telephone around the house? Is that like a

01:31:44 ◼   ► cute nickname? I am. I am. I am not. Honestly, I know that empanadas are like a

01:31:54 ◼   ► a Mexican food, I don't think I know what they are.

01:31:57 ◼   ► - They're really nice.

01:31:58 ◼   ► You would like an empanada.

01:32:00 ◼   ► - I guess I would.

01:32:02 ◼   ► I do like Mexican food. - I think you would.

01:32:03 ◼   ► You would like an empanada, I'm telling you that.

01:32:05 ◼   ► - Okay, that's good information to have.

01:32:08 ◼   ► - One day, Federico, we will eat empanadas together.

01:32:11 ◼   ► - One day.

01:32:12 ◼   ► - Until then, if you wanna find links in the show notes,

01:32:15 ◼   ► head on over to the website at relay.fm/connected/295

01:32:20 ◼   ► while you're there.

01:32:21 ◼   ► There's a bunch of fun activities you can take part in.

01:32:23 ◼   ► you can become a member to support the show directly and get access to that

01:32:26 ◼   ► Relay FM members at Discord, which is a whole lot of fun.

01:32:29 ◼   ► You can send us an email with feedback or a follow-up or you can find us on Twitter. Myke is there as

01:32:36 ◼   ► I-M-Y-K-E. Myke is the host of a bunch of shows here on Relay FM.

01:32:41 ◼   ► You can find Federico on Twitter sometimes at Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:32:46 ◼   ► He is the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net.

01:32:49 ◼   ► You can find me there is ismh and my writing at 512 pixels dotnet. I'd like our sponsors this week

01:32:57 ◼   ► Pingdom and bombus and until next time gentlemen say goodbye. I think we did you cheerio adios