Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 284.

00:00:11 ◼   ► It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:13 ◼   ► Squarespace, Bolin Branch, and SaneBox.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Steven Hackett and I'm joined by Mr. Myke Hurley.

00:00:19 ◼   ► - Hi.

00:00:20 ◼   ► - Oh. (laughs)

00:00:22 ◼   ► - You did it wrong, but thank you.

00:00:24 ◼   ► - I miss an episode, so y'all's even episode

00:00:27 ◼   ► is my odd episode.

00:00:28 ◼   ► - No, that's not how it works.

00:00:29 ◼   ► I just got it wrong, really.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Yeah, because it's in there now.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Hey, Federico.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Hi, Federico.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Hello, I'm also here.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Yay, all three of us.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Federico, do you feel as angry as I do

00:00:40 ◼   ► when I'm not announced correctly?

00:00:43 ◼   ► Not particularly.

00:00:45 ◼   ► I am disappointed in Steven, but I'm not upset.

00:00:49 ◼   ► Steven, you gonna issue another apology,

00:00:53 ◼   ► another public apology?

00:00:54 ◼   ► No.

00:00:55 ◼   ► If you do it too often, it cheapens them.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Are you going to publish a fleet about it?

00:01:00 ◼   ► Whatever they're called.

00:01:00 ◼   ► What are they called?

00:01:01 ◼   ► I got to move to Brazil.

00:01:02 ◼   ► Yeah, Twitter stories, whatever.

00:01:04 ◼   ► What is it called?

00:01:05 ◼   ► Fleets?

00:01:05 ◼   ► Fleets.

00:01:06 ◼   ► A fleet.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Got to say, I like that name.

00:01:07 ◼   ► Tweets are fleeting, you know?

00:01:08 ◼   ► I can't tell if it's a really good name or a really bad name.

00:01:12 ◼   ► But that, I think, means it's really good.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Probably.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Anyways, we have just a lot of stuff to do.

00:01:18 ◼   ► I'm very glad to be back.

00:01:19 ◼   ► I missed you all last week.

00:01:20 ◼   ► I really enjoyed listening to the show.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Thank you to everyone who sent me weird fish.

00:01:24 ◼   ► A lot of people did it in Twitter DMs,

00:01:26 ◼   ► which I didn't expect.

00:01:27 ◼   ► So like, what is happening?

00:01:28 ◼   ► You got the arms open? Yeah. Well then you bring that upon yourself don't you? No it's

00:01:32 ◼   ► uh only sometimes creepy things happen. I just want to say something I I I regret

00:01:38 ◼   ► none of my tattoos but at this time yeah this time I have you know the thought of

00:01:47 ◼   ► the timeliness of my weird fish tattoo has hit me over the past couple of days

00:01:53 ◼   ► Because people are using that emoji as coronavirus emoji.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Yeah, even though it's not a virus emoji, like it's not called the coronavirus emoji,

00:02:02 ◼   ► I think a lot of people call it that.

00:02:04 ◼   ► But the coronavirus, the actual virus looks like that emoji.

00:02:08 ◼   ► It sort of does.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Does it?

00:02:10 ◼   ► That's the problem.

00:02:11 ◼   ► Yes.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Well, it kind of does, you know, with all the tiny circles around the bigger ball.

00:02:18 ◼   ► It kind of does look like it.

00:02:21 ◼   ► So I have been keeping my inner arm hidden from other people.

00:02:31 ◼   ► You know, just because like what?

00:02:32 ◼   ► Bandaged.

00:02:33 ◼   ► This is your revenge.

00:02:35 ◼   ► Is it though?

00:02:36 ◼   ► Because, yes, because you had to bandage that to hide it from us in your meanness.

00:02:42 ◼   ► So now you have to hide it from the world.

00:02:46 ◼   ► So this is your revenge.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Hmm

00:02:50 ◼   ► Possibly okay, we should be follow up Myke you would tell us about the BBC

00:02:54 ◼   ► so the BBC is a part is a

00:02:58 ◼   ► funded a

00:03:00 ◼   ► publicly funded

00:03:01 ◼   ► Organization it's not that produces television shows and radio shows and news and stuff like that and there's a thing called

00:03:09 ◼   ► TV license that we will have to pay and then but why would it be in our follow-up could we maybe get to that part?

00:03:17 ◼   ► Oh, because they purchased the same Getty image that I purchased of Tim Cook standing

00:03:22 ◼   ► in front of our artwork on WWDC 2016. And just in the, this is the image that they used

00:03:30 ◼   ► of Tim Cook to talk about Apple opening its first Indian store in 2021, which I've read

00:03:36 ◼   ► apparently Donald Trump helped with. I read somewhere, or at least I saw a headline and

00:03:41 ◼   ► that's all that news is these days, right? It's just a headline that you see. And then

00:03:44 ◼   ► becomes the facts. Was it 2016? 2018? I said 2016, right? Yeah, I think it was... I think

00:03:52 ◼   ► it was 2018, because it wasn't this year, it was the year before. Yeah, anyways, yeah,

00:03:56 ◼   ► so a lot of people sent us this, this image pops up from time to time. Yeah. It's always

00:04:00 ◼   ► good to see it, you know, obviously they chose it because of us. You love to see it. We should

00:04:05 ◼   ► also acknowledge the fact that in the first version of the story, Tim Cook was spelled

00:04:09 ◼   ► with the final E. So Tim Cook with an E at the end. Is that like the Scottish spelling

00:04:15 ◼   ► or the Irish spelling? Cook with an E is a pretty typical way of spelling. Cook. Oh,

00:04:23 ◼   ► okay. It's like in America shop is S-H-O-P, but in Britain it's S-H-O-P-P-E. Same thing.

00:04:30 ◼   ► Just added the E. Yep, Yeoldy Tim as we call him. Yeoldy E. Yeoldy. Is it true about the

00:04:38 ◼   ► the shop it's not about the shop right yeah well okay like technically yes but

00:04:43 ◼   ► also no at the same time so it's like choppy that is the old English way of it

00:04:49 ◼   ► yeah in America you see it on places that want to look fancy it's not like

00:04:52 ◼   ► you would have Photoshop II

00:04:56 ◼   ► the only Photoshop is just when you would take like other paintings and just

00:05:02 ◼   ► lay them over each other that's that's Photoshop II Wow interesting okay well I

00:05:08 ◼   ► I like the, I think it's kind of funny, the way that like the BBC, like the style guide

00:05:12 ◼   ► of BBC is like Mr. Cook.

00:05:14 ◼   ► Well, the New York Times is that too, but they put a period after Mr. and the BBC doesn't.

00:05:20 ◼   ► It's just MR space cook.

00:05:22 ◼   ► I didn't know that that was a thing.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Maybe I don't know what the rule is in British English for that.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Or English I should say.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Oh, God damn.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Please send your feedback to Casey.

00:05:32 ◼   ► Federico, do you want to tell us about unhomekitting a Logitech camera?

00:05:36 ◼   ► We received a tweet about the problems that we talked about last week, about the fact

00:05:42 ◼   ► that if you wanted to...

00:05:44 ◼   ► Well, I had to remove a Logi Circle 2 camera from my existing HomeKit configuration, and

00:05:49 ◼   ► because I had previously flashed the HomeKit secure video firmware on the camera, I could

00:05:56 ◼   ► not do that setup from scratch using the Circle app from the App Store, because now that camera

00:06:01 ◼   ► can only talk to HomeKit.

00:06:03 ◼   ► friend of the show, Jonathan, let us know, he sent us a screenshot that basically tells

00:06:10 ◼   ► you that if you want to reset your Logitech Logitech 2 cameras to not be HomeKit cameras

00:06:17 ◼   ► only anymore, you have to place a phone call or otherwise contact Logitech support. So

00:06:23 ◼   ► if you want to un-flash the firmware, if you want to go back to the way it used to be,

00:06:28 ◼   ► the LogiCircle 2 camera could be configured and used within the LogiCircle app and HomeKit

00:06:34 ◼   ► but without HomeKit Secure Video. If you want to go back, you need to talk to Logitech and

00:06:39 ◼   ► let them do it for you. I'm guessing that they will have you download a special firmware

00:06:44 ◼   ► file that can override the newer version, but there's a screenshot, there's a documentation

00:06:50 ◼   ► page on the Logitech website, and yeah, I'm not touching this, I'm not doing this, I don't

00:06:56 ◼   ► want to contact anybody. This is like when you sign up for those online subscriptions

00:07:03 ◼   ► and they force you to get in touch with technical support, like with customer support, if you

00:07:07 ◼   ► want to unsubscribe. Like, for example, when I subscribed to the, was it the Wall Street

00:07:11 ◼   ► Journal that forced you to get in touch with support? And I came up, well, came up is a

00:07:19 ◼   ► strong expression, I Googled and I discovered that if you have a California zip code due

00:07:25 ◼   ► Due to regulations in California, if you just change that in your account, you will gain

00:07:30 ◼   ► the option to do it yourself.

00:07:33 ◼   ► If you're a California resident, all these online services are forced by law to offer

00:07:39 ◼   ► an unsubscribe button.

00:07:41 ◼   ► So this is totally a tangent, but if you have an online service that is requesting you to

00:07:48 ◼   ► get in touch with customer support, just change your zip code to any California zip code and

00:07:52 ◼   ► and it's very likely that you will gain

00:07:54 ◼   ► an unsubscribe button.

00:07:56 ◼   ► In any case, this is different.

00:07:57 ◼   ► This is not an online service.

00:07:58 ◼   ► If you wanna roll back the firmware

00:08:00 ◼   ► of your LogiCircle 2 camera,

00:08:03 ◼   ► you have to contact Logitech.

00:08:05 ◼   ► So even if you live in California, that doesn't matter.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Just get in touch with them

00:08:09 ◼   ► and go back to the previous version.

00:08:10 ◼   ► Honestly, I would, like if I could do it myself,

00:08:14 ◼   ► I would probably go back

00:08:16 ◼   ► because it hasn't been great so far.

00:08:19 ◼   ► This HomeKit Secure Video stuff hasn't been,

00:08:22 ◼   ► You know, all my, anytime we're not home, every single time I get the notification that

00:08:29 ◼   ► says, "The camera has detected a person." And every single time is that person, and

00:08:35 ◼   ► I'm sorry to bring this up on the show, but that person is my dog's butt. So I'm not sure

00:08:40 ◼   ► why that particular shape is recognized as a...

00:08:44 ◼   ► Is that like when you see faces in toast?

00:08:48 ◼   ► It's kind of like that. It's kind of like that. Every single time the snapshot from

00:08:55 ◼   ► the camera is Zelda's...

00:09:00 ◼   ► Rear end.

00:09:01 ◼   ► Rear end, yes. Let's say that. Every single time, like my heart skips a bit. I'm like,

00:09:06 ◼   ► "Oh no, they finally broke in." But no, it's just my dog jumping on the bed.

00:09:11 ◼   ► We were bearing it all to the world.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Yes, yes. To the camera.

00:09:16 ◼   ► So we spoke last week about two things.

00:09:19 ◼   ► One, that the technical support pages for HomeKit secure

00:09:23 ◼   ► routers request suggested that for your devices

00:09:27 ◼   ► to work with the new settings, you

00:09:29 ◼   ► needed to remove them all and add them to your home app again.

00:09:35 ◼   ► And also at the same time, the ERO

00:09:37 ◼   ► had added support for HomeKit secure routers.

00:09:42 ◼   ► And we heard from a bunch of enterprising and daring

00:09:45 ◼   ► individuals, uh, JJ being one of them,

00:09:47 ◼   ► that somehow the Eero app and the whole Eero system will allow you to enable

00:09:53 ◼   ► secure router support without needing to re-add everything.

00:09:59 ◼   ► This is all very confusing to me because Apple published the documentation,

00:10:04 ◼   ► but the Eero app itself and whatever it does and whatever Eero's implementation

00:10:09 ◼   ► of the system is means that people are reporting to us. I have not done it.

00:10:13 ◼   ► I don't think any of us here have done it.

00:10:15 ◼   ► - I'm afraid.

00:10:16 ◼   ► - Because I just got an Eero for my new studio

00:10:20 ◼   ► that I'm setting up.

00:10:20 ◼   ► I'll talk about all this at some point in the future.

00:10:23 ◼   ► It's great.

00:10:24 ◼   ► Like it's a really, like that app is wonderful.

00:10:26 ◼   ► Like the Eero app is really nice.

00:10:27 ◼   ► Has been a sponsor, not a sponsor.

00:10:29 ◼   ► Wasn't able to get one until now

00:10:30 ◼   ► because they've only recently launched in the UK.

00:10:32 ◼   ► But they're really nice.

00:10:33 ◼   ► It's really nice.

00:10:34 ◼   ► And it's suggesting that I re-add all my other devices

00:10:38 ◼   ► via HomeKit and I'm like nah, I'm fine.

00:10:40 ◼   ► But we've heard from many listeners

00:10:42 ◼   ► that this is something that they have done and it was working fine for them.

00:10:47 ◼   ► I don't know what's going on there.

00:10:48 ◼   ► I want to mention that somebody,

00:10:50 ◼   ► I don't remember who because I didn't save the tweet, but somebody

00:10:53 ◼   ► let me know that

00:10:55 ◼   ► there probably was a way for me to avoid having to

00:10:58 ◼   ► re-add all of my HomeKit accessories

00:11:02 ◼   ► after I changed my Wi-Fi network.

00:11:04 ◼   ► And basically this person told me,

00:11:06 ◼   ► "Look, all you need to do was create a new network with the same name and the same

00:11:09 ◼   ► authentication and the same subnet mask. And at that point, I was like, yeah.

00:11:14 ◼   ► Was that all I needed to do?

00:11:17 ◼   ► So I'm so disappointed in me for not remembering about the subnet mask. I mean, this is the

00:11:23 ◼   ► kind of stuff that Steven would have known. Steven has all the masks, the subnet and the

00:11:30 ◼   ► regular net. You have all the masks. I hereby apologize to everybody for not remembering

00:11:38 ◼   ► about the subnet mask sorry I'm Stephen do you know what a subnet mask is yeah of

00:11:43 ◼   ► course he does yeah Oh doesn't everybody okay fine lastly someone and I tried

00:11:52 ◼   ► finding who and I couldn't find it so I apologize but someone sent us a

00:11:56 ◼   ► screenshot of the Apple trailers website and they have fixed it since but

00:12:01 ◼   ► apparently the header and footer were broken and I just bring this up because

00:12:04 ◼   ► the bottom of the page just said Apple footer and like giant text but now they

00:12:10 ◼   ► fixed it again so that's a little bit of a letdown for the show. But isn't it more

00:12:15 ◼   ► exciting and interesting that somebody did fix it? Yeah somebody is

00:12:22 ◼   ► working on this website. Look we're on to you, single person who works on this site.

00:12:27 ◼   ► We've been charged. I've emailed with them.

00:12:29 ◼   ► We know you're out there. Only you are emailing with this person though.

00:12:35 ◼   ► And just to let you know that your work is appreciated. Wait, there's a movie called Connected coming out?

00:12:41 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I didn't really want to talk about this, but I guess we have to now. Yeah, there is. It's a...

00:12:47 ◼   ► Yeah, there is. It's a movie called Connected. I think it's probably... And the O is the upgrade logo. Come on, Sony!

00:12:54 ◼   ► I think this potentially could end up being a problem for us, but I guess we'll have to deal with that at the time that we need to.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Somebody at Sony just started listening to relay podcasts, it seems.

00:13:04 ◼   ► Well, but that could be a problem for us though, right? Like, you see the issue with like trademarks and all that kind of stuff, but...

00:13:11 ◼   ► We'll see what happens.

00:13:12 ◼   ► But yep, there is a movie called "Connected" coming out.

00:13:14 ◼   ► Also the logo says "con-nected", like the "con" is on a different level of the text.

00:13:19 ◼   ► Yeah, because it's connecting. It's like...

00:13:21 ◼   ► No, no, no, it's not.

00:13:22 ◼   ► Connected.

00:13:23 ◼   ► Is it because it's a con?

00:13:25 ◼   ► No, no, no. The movie trailer is fun. It's from the same people who made like the Spider-Man

00:13:31 ◼   ► into the Spider-Verse and the Lego movie. It's from Sony Pictures Animations. It's the people

00:13:35 ◼   ► behind those movies as well, like the directors and stuff, writers, directors. But it's about the

00:13:42 ◼   ► like bad side of technology. So it is the con, right?

00:13:46 ◼   ► Okay. So it's not like a con, like you're a con man?

00:13:50 ◼   ► No. Well, there is, it does actually seem to be a little element of that in it too,

00:13:54 ◼   ► but I don't think that's what they're going for.

00:13:55 ◼   ► So, but did they have a photo of Tim Cook in front of the "Connected" the movie logo?

00:13:59 ◼   ► Maybe they will. Like, that doesn't seem outside of the realm of possibility.

00:14:04 ◼   ► But yeah, this, I don't know, Steven, you're the legal eagle. I don't know if this will be a

00:14:09 ◼   ► problem for us, but I am concerned, I am genuinely quite concerned about it.

00:14:12 ◼   ► I'm not worried. I mean, look, Sony comes knocking, we'll just take them on to court.

00:14:16 ◼   ► We can take Sony. No, I don't think it's a problem.

00:14:20 ◼   ► but I also won't see the movie. So take that, Sony. Oh, it'll be good though. I will see the movie.

00:14:26 ◼   ► Okay. Maybe we can do that as our membership special. I mean, we can change your name,

00:14:33 ◼   ► but Sony has to give us PlayStation 5s in advance. Yeah, that's the terms of the deal, Sony,

00:14:39 ◼   ► if you're listening. Wait, that doesn't work for all of us. Hang on. No, it does. It does,

00:14:43 ◼   ► because you can make a YouTube video about it. It'll be great. Exactly. We'll get three

00:14:47 ◼   ► Advanced PlayStation fives before any other news outlet and then we will change the name of our show

00:14:53 ◼   ► Consider changing that that's the only will change it to connect it to and then if you want to do a sequel

00:15:00 ◼   ► Then we need to talk about the PlayStation 6. So yeah, that's those are the terms of our deal

00:15:05 ◼   ► When you guys prepared that contract, I'm gonna tell everybody about our first sponsor. Mm-hmm

00:15:10 ◼   ► This episode of connected is brought to you by Squarespace

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00:15:54 ◼   ► Just last week. I launched a new site for my brother's nonprofit. We built it in Squarespace and it is a

00:16:01 ◼   ► Massive site there's lots of content lots of things going on and

00:16:05 ◼   ► Squarespace makes it really easy and the best part is he can go in there and update his content update the blog do all these

00:16:11 ◼   ► things without my help which is pretty awesome. Squarespace plans start

00:16:16 ◼   ► just $12 a month but you can start a trial with no credit card required by

00:16:21 ◼   ► going to squarespace.com/connected. When you decide to sign up use the offer

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00:16:35 ◼   ► and the code connected to get 10% off your first purchase. I'd like to thank

00:16:40 ◼   ► Squarespace for the support of this show and relay FM Squarespace make your next move make your next website

00:16:46 ◼   ► I've been working with the chat room

00:16:48 ◼   ► While we record live to come up with the future names for the show as Sony continues to buy us out over time

00:16:55 ◼   ► So we are now connected and so I decided to go with fast and furious style naming here

00:17:02 ◼   ► Okay, so the second so the first rebrand will become connect ood

00:17:07 ◼   ► So just be that the number two right in the middle so like TW od right connect

00:17:13 ◼   ► See you and any CTW od or to connected to connection is another option for the second

00:17:19 ◼   ► for the third is

00:17:21 ◼   ► Connected but with a number three in the space of the first e right of course, right?

00:17:26 ◼   ► You see how that works and then the fourth one will be

00:17:29 ◼   ► Connected but with a four instead of the T

00:17:32 ◼   ► and then we'll become connected origins as we reboot the entire show for the fifth installment.

00:17:38 ◼   ► You forgot about connected Tokyo Drift though.

00:17:40 ◼   ► Yeah, so No Grass Will Grow suggested connected Tichi Joycon Drift, which is excellent.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Does Steven know what a Joycon Drift is?

00:17:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:50 ◼   ► I don't know. Oh, he has a Switch.

00:17:53 ◼   ► Do you?

00:17:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I have a Switch.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:17:55 ◼   ► I have not experienced this problem, but I know people have.

00:17:57 ◼   ► Interesting. So you do know.

00:17:59 ◼   ► I do know.

00:18:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:00 ◼   ► Yeah, man of surprises. I know. Federico, you have gone just in all that war against

00:18:09 ◼   ► your home pods. You've turned on your children. In the end, Sylvia won. This is the basic

00:18:17 ◼   ► conclusion of the story. So I mentioned over the past month how Siri activation on, accidental

00:18:24 ◼   ► serial activation on the HomePod became extremely problematic, to the point where the three

00:18:31 ◼   ► HomePods that we have in our house were just randomly activating themselves multiple times

00:18:38 ◼   ► a day. Just out of the blue, we were watching TV, again, in Italian, or we were talking,

00:18:45 ◼   ► and just randomly you hear "I'm on it!" or "Let me work on that!" And like, you would

00:18:51 ◼   ► I have no idea what happened behind the scenes, what the HomePod was actually doing. One time,

00:19:00 ◼   ► it tried to send a message to a certain John in my address book. To this day, it might

00:19:06 ◼   ► have been John Voorhis, might have been John Siracusa, or John Gruber, we'll never know.

00:19:11 ◼   ► And finally, the last... is it an American expression, the last straw? Is that something

00:19:17 ◼   ► that you say, was when today it picked up, out of nowhere, a phone number. And it confirmed

00:19:25 ◼   ► to me, "Okay, I'm calling like 1-2-3-7-8-9-0." And I had to rush to the HomePod and touch

00:19:33 ◼   ► the top of the display to say, and say stop, because I panicked. So that was enough. And

00:19:41 ◼   ► I had to, Silvia started yelling, as usual, at the thing, and she told me like, "You make

00:19:48 ◼   ► a decision, either you disable Siri or I will unplug them all and throw them in the trash."

00:19:55 ◼   ► That is quite an ultimatum.

00:19:59 ◼   ► So I had to go in the home app settings and disable the Siri activation for all the home

00:20:06 ◼   ► pods.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Because I, I mean, I gotta agree with Silvia.

00:20:09 ◼   ► is too much. This is an impossible situation to be in with this assistant that lack at

00:20:15 ◼   ► least three times a day at the very least, just out of nowhere activates itself. Now,

00:20:20 ◼   ► I don't know if it's because I live in Italy and the HomePod of course doesn't speak Italian,

00:20:26 ◼   ► it speaks English, and that creates a confusion. But ever since I tweeted about it today, a

00:20:31 ◼   ► bunch of people got in touch with me to say that the accidental activation also happens

00:20:37 ◼   ► in English if you say the word, for example, "see", just right in a way that the HomePod

00:20:43 ◼   ► picks it up. Or a couple of people at least told me that they have dogs named Macy. And

00:20:52 ◼   ► that also seems to trigger Siri on the HomePod.

00:20:54 ◼   ► So you're saying that about names. Super quick tangent. I had somebody write to me, I don't

00:20:59 ◼   ► remember where it was, they were asking me a question and they were saying that like,

00:21:04 ◼   ► is a kid in this person's child's school whose name is Siri. Oh my. And their life is a nightmare

00:21:12 ◼   ► because everybody just says "hey Siri" to them all the time, right? Oh my god. Oops,

00:21:18 ◼   ► just turned on mine. Obviously that was bound to happen. But like how terrible for that

00:21:23 ◼   ► poor person to have that name because they may be like old enough where like it wasn't

00:21:28 ◼   ► a problem when the parents name like that kid's like nine or ten. That could have just

00:21:33 ◼   ► been a name, right? But now, like, this person will spend probably their entire life having

00:21:41 ◼   ► this joke, even after Siri is gone, right? Like, all the people her age will remember

00:21:47 ◼   ► it. That's the brief aside. So, like, just it could be worse, you know, it could be Siri.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess it could be worse. But now, basically, the story is my home pods are just

00:21:58 ◼   ► speakers. They are music speakers and

00:22:01 ◼   ► Airplay automation devices for HomeKit and for my alarm system, but

00:22:06 ◼   ► we are not using them for Siri requests anymore and whenever I need to use

00:22:12 ◼   ► Siri I just pick up my phone and I long press

00:22:16 ◼   ► the side button. So you haven't got it on your phone

00:22:19 ◼   ► anymore? Nope, nowhere. It's gone everywhere? It's gone

00:22:23 ◼   ► everywhere. I guess you have the Apple Watch though, right? You could do the

00:22:25 ◼   ► the raise thing? Does that work for you?

00:22:27 ◼   ► - No, never works.

00:22:29 ◼   ► - Oh, okay.

00:22:30 ◼   ► - No, but I disabled it everywhere on my iPhone,

00:22:32 ◼   ► on the iPad, on the watch.

00:22:33 ◼   ► It's gone, it's gone.

00:22:35 ◼   ► I don't use it anymore.

00:22:36 ◼   ► And whenever I need Siri, I can just touch and hold

00:22:40 ◼   ► on the two home pods that are within reach,

00:22:43 ◼   ► or I can just use my phone.

00:22:46 ◼   ► The, as I mentioned before, Siri on the watch

00:22:48 ◼   ► has also been problematic for me in that it often asks me

00:22:52 ◼   ► to repeat what I just said.

00:22:54 ◼   ► It seems more reliable on the phone if you hold down the side button.

00:22:58 ◼   ► So I'm very bummed about this, of course, because I do love the idea of a persistent

00:23:03 ◼   ► home assistant that can listen to you everywhere.

00:23:06 ◼   ► But the combination of being unable to tell what exactly Siri heard compared to, say,

00:23:12 ◼   ► the Amazon Echo that gives you a log of all the audio activations that you can review

00:23:18 ◼   ► and listen to again, this cannot be done with the Apple system.

00:23:23 ◼   ► So the combination of that obscurity and the fact that it just kept happening and it just

00:23:28 ◼   ► wouldn't stop.

00:23:31 ◼   ► In the end, as I said, Sylvia won.

00:23:33 ◼   ► She was right and they are now just music speakers and quite expensive music speakers,

00:23:39 ◼   ► you know?

00:23:40 ◼   ► Can I ask you a question?

00:23:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:43 ◼   ► This is just like a thought that popped into my mind.

00:23:46 ◼   ► Is the hotpot available in Italy now?

00:23:49 ◼   ► No.

00:23:50 ◼   ► Do you think that there is an often used Italian phrase that sounds like it?

00:23:58 ◼   ► Well I mean the obvious one...

00:23:59 ◼   ► That would be the thing that would make the most sense to me here as to why you are having

00:24:03 ◼   ► the problems that you are having?

00:24:04 ◼   ► Yeah, so one of the... it's not really an expression. So in Italian the word "yes" is

00:24:11 ◼   ► "si", right? S-I. And colloquialism, I guess, when you're talking to somebody, like in English,

00:24:21 ◼   ► like in a conversation, you would say something like "yeah", like when you agree with somebody,

00:24:25 ◼   ► just say "yeah". In Italian, we would say "se".

00:24:29 ◼   ► I've heard you say that. That's what I was thinking, because I couldn't remember it,

00:24:33 ◼   ► but like I've heard you when you, if I'm ever around here and you're talking on the phone,

00:24:37 ◼   ► I've heard you say make that noise before and I expect that could be it, right?

00:24:43 ◼   ► And this isn't exactly one of them.

00:24:46 ◼   ► This isn't a thing where it's like, oh, but it's okay.

00:24:48 ◼   ► Right.

00:24:49 ◼   ► Because that's not what I'm, you know, it's not what I'm getting at.

00:24:52 ◼   ► It's just like, I'm wondering what it could, if there is something which makes it worse

00:24:57 ◼   ► for you.

00:24:58 ◼   ► And my thought was that like, considering it's not available in Italy or in Italian,

00:25:04 ◼   ► like, oh my God.

00:25:06 ◼   ► Okay.

00:25:07 ◼   ► happening to me anyway, so clearly it's not an Italian thing. I don't know why this is

00:25:12 ◼   ► happening to me so much today, but I just figured that that might be a particular problem

00:25:18 ◼   ► that you're having. I don't know.

00:25:20 ◼   ► That is definitely one of the sounds that we make when we're just talking, or something

00:25:25 ◼   ► that you would just hear on TV, just something that people say all the time. And obviously

00:25:29 ◼   ► all of this would be, you could say, fixed if only there was the option to change the

00:25:34 ◼   ► activation phrase and make it a custom one. I believe you can on other smart assistant speakers.

00:25:40 ◼   ► You can at least change. I don't think about custom, but you can change.

00:25:42 ◼   ► Maybe you can choose between multiple options, but it would be like, you know,

00:25:45 ◼   ► something like, "Hey, HomePod." It would be much more different from the sound and the noises that

00:25:53 ◼   ► we make when we talk to each other in Italy. So that's definitely part of the problem. And,

00:25:57 ◼   ► and of course, something that Apple cannot account for.

00:26:00 ◼   ► But honestly, like, even if that's the excuse, right?

00:26:05 ◼   ► People could say, well, this happens

00:26:07 ◼   ► because you bought a home pot in the US

00:26:09 ◼   ► and you live in Italy

00:26:10 ◼   ► and it's not supposed to be used like that.

00:26:12 ◼   ► But let me ask you then,

00:26:14 ◼   ► why wasn't this happening three years ago?

00:26:17 ◼   ► So, you know, three years have passed

00:26:19 ◼   ► and in theory, technology has gotten even smarter.

00:26:21 ◼   ► And it wasn't happening three years ago with the Echo

00:26:24 ◼   ► that I also bought in the US.

00:26:26 ◼   ► And, you know, and I mean, we have words that are similar to the name of the

00:26:31 ◼   ► Amazon assistant. We have like people names that are similar to that.

00:26:35 ◼   ► And it wasn't happening.

00:26:37 ◼   ► I've observed something interesting about my Amazon Echo recently.

00:26:41 ◼   ► Adina pointed it out to me and we were like testing it out together. Uh,

00:26:46 ◼   ► so we have an Echo show, right? And when you start,

00:26:51 ◼   ► when you give it the trigger phrase, the little blue light,

00:26:54 ◼   ► line appears along the bottom of the screen rather than there being the physical light.

00:26:59 ◼   ► And we'd noticed that if we said the word, like, all right, I'm gonna say it, sorry,

00:27:04 ◼   ► but if we said the word Alexa in part of a conversation whilst talking about the echo,

00:27:09 ◼   ► because I don't know why we would do that, but we just bought some new ones, so like maybe that

00:27:14 ◼   ► was it, right? What we'd noticed is if you said the word but continued talking, the light went

00:27:21 ◼   ► on and off again, as if it was working out that it wasn't supposed to be paying attention.

00:27:28 ◼   ► Like, "Oh, yeah, they're not talking to me."

00:27:30 ◼   ► And I think it's because all of these systems are currently listening, right? Like, they're

00:27:34 ◼   ► always listening, but they have a buffer on them or something, like in very simplistic

00:27:38 ◼   ► terms. So maybe there's some kind of machine learning that it's doing where it's analyzing

00:27:45 ◼   ► was said before and is disregarding it if it thinks that it's part of a conversation

00:27:52 ◼   ► because then we were just testing it and we're just putting the word in the middle of sentences

00:27:56 ◼   ► and it wouldn't take the request, it would just turn off.

00:28:00 ◼   ► So I don't know if Amazon's doing something different here to Apple but anecdotally I

00:28:08 ◼   ► would also say it happens way less to me with my Echo devices than with my Apple devices.

00:28:17 ◼   ► Yeah, Siri is a bit over eager to help and I wish there was like a slider that allowed

00:28:23 ◼   ► me to say, like define the eagerness of Siri to get in touch with me and offer the help,

00:28:31 ◼   ► like a threshold, right, that you could set a different level of activation. But until

00:28:36 ◼   ► that changes or until it becomes public knowledge that all these accidental

00:28:41 ◼   ► activations have been fixed, the setting is very likely going to stay off

00:28:46 ◼   ► because I don't want to hear Silvia yell at the thing and me as a result because

00:28:53 ◼   ► of these problems. So the problem with these kinds of issues

00:28:58 ◼   ► though is how are you going to know? Flipping the switch on again without

00:29:02 ◼   ► without telling Silvianci what happened.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Testing your relationship.

00:29:08 ◼   ► The setting is gone on all my three home pods.

00:29:10 ◼   ► One of them says that I gotta reconnect my iCloud account.

00:29:12 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:29:13 ◼   ► And no matter how many times I tap in my password, it says that there's an error, so whatever.

00:29:18 ◼   ► You're not reconnecting hard enough.

00:29:20 ◼   ► What's wrong with you?

00:29:21 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:29:22 ◼   ► I've got one that does that.

00:29:23 ◼   ► It's just like I've just given up.

00:29:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:26 ◼   ► I mean it still works as an Airplay speaker, so whatever.

00:29:30 ◼   ► It does seem like you have this a little bit worse than others, but we definitely have

00:29:33 ◼   ► this in our household.

00:29:34 ◼   ► And the one that really gets my wife upset is when it goes, "Hmm?"

00:29:38 ◼   ► It's like, "Hmm?"

00:29:40 ◼   ► It just really pushes her buttons in a way that I find sort of funny.

00:29:45 ◼   ► We have some follow-out.

00:29:47 ◼   ► Myke, do you want to walk us through this?

00:29:49 ◼   ► Yeah, we do.

00:29:51 ◼   ► Well, because I'm not a part of any of it, so I guess I should do it.

00:29:55 ◼   ► Federico was on the talk show.

00:29:57 ◼   ► It was an excellent episode and I was really actually genuinely very pleased that Federico

00:30:03 ◼   ► was on the show because I just thought it was nice.

00:30:06 ◼   ► But also I thought it was really good to hear you and John Gruber go at it head to head

00:30:11 ◼   ► especially about iPad multitasking because I think what it ended up proving, which I

00:30:15 ◼   ► think is always useful in these discussions, is that you end up falling in the middle.

00:30:22 ◼   ► is closer to the middle of the argument than they appear to be when on their own. And when

00:30:28 ◼   ► two people can have it out and talk about it, it's a useful conversation. So I thought it was really

00:30:36 ◼   ► good to hear and I thought it was really good to hear John clarify some of his thoughts and I

00:30:42 ◼   ► didn't really find myself disagreeing with any of it, which I think is different to how we have,

00:30:48 ◼   ► both me and Federico especially have reacted to some of the things that he's been writing recently.

00:30:54 ◼   ► So I thought it was a very good conversation. So and if you listen to last week's episode of this

00:31:00 ◼   ► show, which you probably did, it's actually a really nice bridge because there was some of the

00:31:04 ◼   ► stuff we were talking about was coming up there too, but with a slightly different take. So I

00:31:09 ◼   ► thought it was a really good episode and Federico you did a wonderful job. Thank you. Thank you.

00:31:13 ◼   ► I appreciate it. It was a very fun discussion.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Steven was on Sara Dietschy's podcast, That Creative Life, and it was a very interesting

00:31:21 ◼   ► interview and discussion. It gets very in the weeds in a nerdy, great way about podcast

00:31:27 ◼   ► advertising, which I think people might enjoy who listen to this show because us podcast

00:31:32 ◼   ► nerds love podcast nerdery, right? So there might be some good stuff there. But also,

00:31:38 ◼   ► Sarah is just like a really great creator and she thinks about things in a way that

00:31:43 ◼   ► I think people that are slightly younger than us approach online media now. And so we're

00:31:50 ◼   ► all a bit old fashioned here now, which I hate to admit, but like the more young people,

00:31:56 ◼   ► especially YouTubers that I follow, I've realized that our ways are a bit more old fashioned

00:32:02 ◼   ► and it makes me feel older. But Sarah approaches her kind of creative life, no pun intended,

00:32:09 ◼   ► in a really interesting way. And it was really fun to hear the two of you kind of talk things

00:32:15 ◼   ► through because I think there was like a mutual thing where it was like, "Oh, I hadn't thought

00:32:19 ◼   ► of it that way. I hadn't thought of it that way." And it was, yeah, it was really good.

00:32:22 ◼   ► Yeah. Crossing the generational divides.

00:32:24 ◼   ► Yes, exactly.

00:32:26 ◼   ► Like I do with y'all every week.

00:32:28 ◼   ► every single week. You also said very nice things about me and Federico so I always appreciate that.

00:32:34 ◼   ► And this one, you know, Steven has some merch available so you should go buy Steven's merch.

00:32:39 ◼   ► Yeah that'd be sweet, thank you.

00:32:40 ◼   ► They're actually really nice t-shirts. And two things, one, which I like, one,

00:32:46 ◼   ► Steven made a long sleeve version of his new 512 pixels t-shirt because I asked him to, and two,

00:32:51 ◼   ► one thing I didn't ask and you didn't do and I'm really pleased is you didn't print anything on the

00:32:55 ◼   ► back. Yeah just the front. You have done that in the past with the back printing and I don't

00:33:00 ◼   ► like the back printing so I'm pleased you didn't do that and it's a fun little joke

00:33:04 ◼   ► if you don't get the joke because I didn't initially get the joke but when I did I really

00:33:08 ◼   ► liked it it's a pun on its hip to be square so go and check out Steven's t-shirt but yeah

00:33:14 ◼   ► Steven's merch dot com Steven's merch dot com. Steven's merch dot com.

00:33:24 ◼   ► - Stevensmerch.com.

00:33:26 ◼   ► - You're making me bad domain.

00:33:29 ◼   ► - You hope it's available,

00:33:30 ◼   ► or another Steven's making a lot more money than you.

00:33:34 ◼   ► - See if it's available.

00:33:35 ◼   ► - Let me tell you from my own personal experience,

00:33:38 ◼   ► having an actual URL to send people to,

00:33:41 ◼   ► to get your merch, which is memorable,

00:33:43 ◼   ► is much better for your merch.

00:33:45 ◼   ► Like you will note that on this show

00:33:47 ◼   ► and on upgrade as well,

00:33:48 ◼   ► I have also bought specific URLs when we do merch,

00:33:52 ◼   ► because it is very useful because you hear this and you're driving and you're like, "Oh,

00:33:58 ◼   ► I have to check," and you forget. ConnectedMerch.com. There's nothing. There's absolutely nothing

00:34:06 ◼   ► available. Maybe at some point there will be. I guess we should, you know what, let's

00:34:12 ◼   ► talk about the merch elephant in the merch room right now, which is like the reason Steven

00:34:18 ◼   ► did his merch, which is probably pointless now, which is for WWDC.

00:34:22 ◼   ► Wow!

00:34:23 ◼   ► You're going to look good sitting at home the first week of June.

00:34:28 ◼   ► But that's not why people do merch at this time of year.

00:34:31 ◼   ► Like we're all thinking about like, "Oh, do we want to do merch for WWDC?"

00:34:34 ◼   ► It seems to be like the typical thing that people do.

00:34:37 ◼   ► You do merchandise for the fact that people will want to wear your merchandise to your

00:34:41 ◼   ► live show.

00:34:42 ◼   ► It is incredibly unlikely now that WWDC is happening.

00:34:46 ◼   ► There was one last kind of bastion to fall, which was Google I/O in my opinion.

00:34:54 ◼   ► We have been talking about this as everybody has, right?

00:34:57 ◼   ► So like the three of us and Jon Voorhees, we talk all the time in a text channel and

00:35:02 ◼   ► we have been talking and following all of the events that keep getting cancelled.

00:35:07 ◼   ► And I've been saying the entire time it's all on Google I/O.

00:35:11 ◼   ► If Google I/O goes ahead, WWDC was going to go ahead.

00:35:15 ◼   ► But if Google I/O is cancelled, Apple cannot do WWDC.

00:35:20 ◼   ► Because it's all about, you know, obviously coronavirus is becoming a problem, it's a

00:35:30 ◼   ► big problem, right?

00:35:31 ◼   ► But let's just park that for the moment.

00:35:34 ◼   ► We all know it, right?

00:35:35 ◼   ► Like we don't need to talk about it, we all know it.

00:35:38 ◼   ► But just from a business perspective, Apple cannot say "Hey world, do you want to come

00:35:46 ◼   ► to us?"

00:35:50 ◼   ► Let's all be in a single building, 5,000 people.

00:35:53 ◼   ► Irrespective of the safety of the individuals, just from a public relations standpoint, you

00:36:02 ◼   ► cannot be the only company right now who's like "No, no, we want you to come over here

00:36:07 ◼   ► to our house. Is that cool?

00:36:10 ◼   ► The optics of it would be terrible.

00:36:12 ◼   ► Exactly. Like, you know, bless them self by self, Wes, they're like hanging on. They're

00:36:18 ◼   ► still going ahead at the moment, but everything else.

00:36:20 ◼   ► Nobody's going there anymore, so.

00:36:22 ◼   ► Yeah, everyone's pulling out of it and everything else is getting canceled. So yeah, it was

00:36:27 ◼   ► a Google I/O was canceled yesterday as we're recording this. It was going to be in May,

00:36:31 ◼   ► so probably about three or four weeks before WWDC likely would have been. They haven't

00:36:37 ◼   ► announced what their plans are going to be but you would expect there will still be a keynote

00:36:40 ◼   ► probably presented from Google's campus on May 12th but they've not said anything about that yet

00:36:45 ◼   ► and they're refunding everybody because people bought tickets but this is something I thought

00:36:51 ◼   ► this is really nice actually if you won the lottery and were able to buy a ticket

00:36:57 ◼   ► you your lottery win is rolled over to 2021. That's nice. So they probably won't do a lottery

00:37:05 ◼   ► in 2021 and then everybody who had a 2020 ticket secured, they will automatically get

00:37:10 ◼   ► a ticket for 2021 to buy, like the opportunity to buy again.

00:37:14 ◼   ► Which I think is the right way to do it, right?

00:37:16 ◼   ► Because these systems are so difficult.

00:37:18 ◼   ► It's such a shame if someone's like, "Yes, I'm finally going to Google I/O."

00:37:22 ◼   ► And like, "No, we're going to cancel it now.

00:37:23 ◼   ► Here's your money back."

00:37:25 ◼   ► Nobody knows where this virus is going to go and where it's going to be by that time

00:37:28 ◼   ► of the year, right?

00:37:29 ◼   ► It could be better, it could be worse, it could be the same.

00:37:32 ◼   ► And every single day it seems like it is changing a lot, right?

00:37:35 ◼   ► Like that it's getting better and worse depending on where you are in the world, right?

00:37:40 ◼   ► It's a real tricky situation.

00:37:43 ◼   ► No company should be holding a large scale event right now.

00:37:47 ◼   ► You just shouldn't be doing it.

00:37:48 ◼   ► So you know, obviously it's a real bummer if WWDC is cancelled.

00:37:56 ◼   ► It's a shame because it's like a real nice community event.

00:37:59 ◼   ► we won't be doing our live show because you know we're not gonna go to San Jose on our own.

00:38:05 ◼   ► It would be unsafe to do any live show with a large gathering of people.

00:38:11 ◼   ► There was like a moment I was like oh I wonder if we would do a live show somewhere else

00:38:15 ◼   ► but it's like no in the same reason that there's no WWDC we would not invite a large group of

00:38:21 ◼   ► people to come together so it's a real shame but this is probably the way it's gonna go

00:38:28 ◼   ► and I wonder what Apple will do. Jason Snow had a really good piece on Macworld,

00:38:33 ◼   ► me and him have been talking about this over the last couple of weeks on upgrade as well.

00:38:36 ◼   ► What do you guys think Apple will actually end up doing for that week in WWDC's place?

00:38:46 ◼   ► So this was one of the topics that we tried to discuss on the talk show and I think the more

00:38:53 ◼   ► more I think about it, the more I believe that Apple should do two things. At the very

00:38:58 ◼   ► least, there should be some kind of keynote. Like, because, well, let me say that I think

00:39:04 ◼   ► there will be a WWDC. It just will not be an in-person event. There should be some kind

00:39:11 ◼   ► of day one announcement in the form of a keynote or something else, because a new version of

00:39:17 ◼   ► iOS and iPadOS and all the other OSes, they should come out. They must come out, arguably.

00:39:24 ◼   ► And so I believe there should be a keynote. Now, should it be like a keynote where it's

00:39:28 ◼   ► only Apple employees in the audience and it's held at Apple Park and it's effectively Apple

00:39:33 ◼   ► presenting to Apple and then the event is also streamed? Maybe. Could it be a keynote

00:39:39 ◼   ► where some members of the press are invited? In theory, that would be the less unusual

00:39:47 ◼   ► thing to do, but also you're still inviting a bunch of people from all over the world,

00:39:52 ◼   ► and I don't see Apple saying "Oh, we're inviting the press", but not from Italy, not from China,

00:39:57 ◼   ► not from Singapore, not from, you know, either you invite them all or you just don't. So

00:40:03 ◼   ► there should be a keynote, but I'm not sure if it should be like a media-only keynote

00:40:07 ◼   ► or a keynote where its Apple executives presenting to...

00:40:11 ◼   ► The thing that they get to do with that though is they don't have to make that decision until

00:40:15 ◼   ► like...

00:40:16 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:40:17 ◼   ► - So that they can wait.

00:40:19 ◼   ► Also, Apple is in a kind of funny situation

00:40:22 ◼   ► because Apple does not pre-announce WWDC, right?

00:40:26 ◼   ► Unlike Google IO, Apple just likes to say,

00:40:30 ◼   ► oh, we're doing WWDC again.

00:40:31 ◼   ► If you ask Apple like in 2019,

00:40:34 ◼   ► when are you gonna do WWDC 2020?

00:40:36 ◼   ► And they always reply,

00:40:37 ◼   ► who said there's gonna be a WWDC 2020?

00:40:40 ◼   ► It's one of those things where like everybody knows

00:40:42 ◼   ► there's gonna be WWDC next year,

00:40:44 ◼   ► but Apple does not confirm that

00:40:46 ◼   ► until it's officially announced.

00:40:48 ◼   ► So what I think they should do is,

00:40:50 ◼   ► WWDC this year should be an online event

00:40:53 ◼   ► in the form of sessions that can be still made available

00:40:58 ◼   ► as videos with a presenter on stage,

00:41:00 ◼   ► or they can just be slides with engineers talking,

00:41:04 ◼   ► and Apple asked the tech to do this.

00:41:05 ◼   ► They could be live, they could be pre-recorded.

00:41:08 ◼   ► I mean, we have daily WWDC sessions now anyway.

00:41:13 ◼   ► It's been the case for the past couple of years, I believe.

00:41:15 ◼   ► So that'll just be online sessions.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Now, one of the benefits of WWC if you're a developer

00:41:23 ◼   ► is that you get to attend and you get to do networking.

00:41:27 ◼   ► You get to meet people,

00:41:28 ◼   ► you get to talk to fellow developers in real life,

00:41:31 ◼   ► and mostly you get to talk to Apple face-to-face

00:41:34 ◼   ► at the labs.

00:41:35 ◼   ► So if you're a developer and you have some problems

00:41:38 ◼   ► with your code and you wanna get an Apple employee

00:41:40 ◼   ► to look at it, you can physically go to a lab

00:41:43 ◼   ► at the convention center and schedule an appointment

00:41:46 ◼   ► and you're gonna get the help that you need

00:41:47 ◼   ► from Apple engineers.

00:41:48 ◼   ► Now, of course, that may be tricky to replicate online.

00:41:53 ◼   ► Although, again, it's not impossible.

00:41:55 ◼   ► I could see a scenario where developers can schedule

00:41:58 ◼   ► a virtual meeting with an Apple engineer

00:42:01 ◼   ► and instead of talking to them in real life,

00:42:03 ◼   ► you could just talk to them

00:42:04 ◼   ► with an Apple developer chat program, right?

00:42:07 ◼   ► It's not impossible.

00:42:09 ◼   ► And, you know, Apple has faced technical limitations

00:42:13 ◼   ► that were much more difficult in the past.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Now here we're talking about streaming a bunch of videos

00:42:17 ◼   ► and creating a virtual meeting type of service

00:42:22 ◼   ► for developers, because I do believe that they should

00:42:25 ◼   ► continue to offer some kind of virtual labs for people,

00:42:29 ◼   ► because that's one of the real benefits of WWDC,

00:42:31 ◼   ► getting the answer that maybe to a bug

00:42:34 ◼   ► that maybe you've been trying to fix for a few months,

00:42:36 ◼   ► and you talk to an Apple employee and you have a solution.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Honestly, that should be a service all year long.

00:42:44 ◼   ► But how would they limit that?

00:42:46 ◼   ► Well, they can't do that because then people would never get their work done.

00:42:49 ◼   ► Right. Also, I get that.

00:42:51 ◼   ► The thing is like how, I mean, the 5000 number of people that get to go to WWDC is the inherent limit, right?

00:43:01 ◼   ► That's the limit you can make.

00:43:04 ◼   ► How would they limit a virtual thing?

00:43:08 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:43:09 ◼   ► Would it be like a customer service thing where you just get in the queue and like,

00:43:12 ◼   ► you are 600th Lion Lion, right?

00:43:14 ◼   ► Like that's the problem, right?

00:43:16 ◼   ► I guess it could be like a Genius Bar appointment where you go to the web page and it shows

00:43:20 ◼   ► you all the available slots for you.

00:43:24 ◼   ► Maybe that could be...

00:43:25 ◼   ► I figure Jake could use the lottery system to whittle people down and then allow those

00:43:30 ◼   ► people the ability to join a queue, right?

00:43:33 ◼   ► And also I want to say, maybe, because this is one of the problems of modern Apple that

00:43:39 ◼   ► I see mentioned, especially lately, very frequently on Twitter, maybe this is an opportunity for

00:43:44 ◼   ► Apple to write better documentation.

00:43:47 ◼   ► This has been a problem in the past couple of years, the documentation for certain APIs

00:43:52 ◼   ► has been, I don't want to say poorly written, just absent until September.

00:43:58 ◼   ► So maybe this is also an opportunity for Apple to provide better documentation, better explanation

00:44:03 ◼   ► in the developer docs.

00:44:04 ◼   ► - I guess it's more that it may force them, right?

00:44:07 ◼   ► - May force them, yes.

00:44:09 ◼   ► Yeah, so I think there should be a WWDC,

00:44:13 ◼   ► should be an online one this time.

00:44:16 ◼   ► I know that it's a bummer because, you know,

00:44:18 ◼   ► part of WWDC, the beauty of it is the experience

00:44:21 ◼   ► in real life, but what you gotta do,

00:44:23 ◼   ► you're not gonna release any OS updates this year, no.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Of course you are, if you're Apple.

00:44:27 ◼   ► You want to release, you want to launch a new iPhone

00:44:30 ◼   ► and that iPhone has a new version of iOS on it.

00:44:32 ◼   ► So they should do it, but it should be streamable and everything as much as possible.

00:44:39 ◼   ► It should be an online deal.

00:44:40 ◼   ► I know what they could name this.

00:44:41 ◼   ► Go on.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Could be WWVC worldwide virtual conference.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Okay.

00:44:47 ◼   ► I don't know if they need to rename it.

00:44:50 ◼   ► I don't think that's a thing.

00:44:52 ◼   ► I saw somebody say online, which I thought was a good point, which is like, you know,

00:44:57 ◼   ► one obvious reason why you don't want this is you don't want all of your engineers to get sick.

00:45:01 ◼   ► Right.

00:45:02 ◼   ► Like it, because, because then it's not that, oh, we didn't do WWDC this year.

00:45:07 ◼   ► So we didn't release software this year because we have nobody here.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Right. Because we,

00:45:13 ◼   ► we threw everybody in a room with the world and then they all started touching

00:45:17 ◼   ► each other. Uh, uh, which is a strange sentence.

00:45:22 ◼   ► Um, I, this is it. Yeah. I, I see a lot of people, they're like, oh,

00:45:27 ◼   ► Apple doesn't want to do WWDC.

00:45:29 ◼   ► This gives them the excuse to never have to do it again.

00:45:31 ◼   ► I do not subscribe to that theory.

00:45:33 ◼   ► I genuinely believe that Apple and its employees do value this conference because they know

00:45:43 ◼   ► it's a community event.

00:45:45 ◼   ► And Apple have done lots of things over the last few years to further that, right?

00:45:50 ◼   ► Like they always have that page on their site where they promote some other things that's

00:45:52 ◼   ► happening.

00:45:53 ◼   ► They make their executives available for interviews and on podcasts and stuff.

00:46:00 ◼   ► And I also think that Apple like the kind of rock feel that it has, you know?

00:46:06 ◼   ► You're like, "Oh, we've got our own festival."

00:46:08 ◼   ► And it's like a great thing.

00:46:10 ◼   ► And I think that these companies do enjoy this, and they like to be able to do this.

00:46:15 ◼   ► And I bet the executives especially enjoy it, right?

00:46:18 ◼   ► But they get to walk out on stage and they have these great moments and they get to hear

00:46:22 ◼   ► people be really excited about the work that's going on.

00:46:25 ◼   ► And I bet the people that present the sessions feel the same, right?

00:46:28 ◼   ► They get to have what they're not, you know, Apple employees are not allowed to

00:46:33 ◼   ► interact with people.

00:46:34 ◼   ► Right. And being able to see the excitement and hear the excitement must and be able to

00:46:40 ◼   ► finally share what they're working on.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Like all of that stuff I expect is highly valued.

00:46:47 ◼   ► And yeah, so you have one year doesn't mean it goes forever.

00:46:51 ◼   ► To have that public attribution of your work, to have your work recognized.

00:46:56 ◼   ► I think that's important to engineers.

00:46:57 ◼   ► And I also want to say that, besides the usual issues that we mentioned, like how world developers

00:47:04 ◼   ► go to the labs, I also want to point out all the other important events of WWDC.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Like, for example, the accessibility events and the meetups, being able for different

00:47:16 ◼   ► members of the accessibility community to gather and to talk to each other and to talk

00:47:21 ◼   ► to Apple and to talk to engineers and provide feedback in real life.

00:47:25 ◼   ► That's important, right?

00:47:26 ◼   ► And it's also an aspect that we should consider.

00:47:28 ◼   ► All these other events that happen around WWDC,

00:47:32 ◼   ► not just these sessions and the labs,

00:47:34 ◼   ► but there's so much more going on.

00:47:36 ◼   ► - The scholarship program.

00:47:38 ◼   ► - The scholarship, I mean, God,

00:47:39 ◼   ► that absolutely is so important, right?

00:47:41 ◼   ► To get these young developers, hundreds of them,

00:47:43 ◼   ► to travel from all over the world and get an opportunity

00:47:46 ◼   ► to meet Apple executives and engineers.

00:47:48 ◼   ► And those will be the future engineers,

00:47:51 ◼   ► it's very likely, that work at Apple.

00:47:53 ◼   ► And so there's so much value to the community aspect of it

00:47:58 ◼   ► and being able to gather people

00:48:00 ◼   ► and let them talk to each other and meet and discuss ideas

00:48:03 ◼   ► and problems and solutions.

00:48:04 ◼   ► That is so important, which is such a shame

00:48:07 ◼   ► if it's gonna be an online only event

00:48:09 ◼   ► because you're gonna lose that aspect.

00:48:11 ◼   ► I mean, it just happens,

00:48:14 ◼   ► but at the very least you will retain the fact

00:48:17 ◼   ► that you have new software coming out

00:48:19 ◼   ► and therefore new apps and new features and new products.

00:48:22 ◼   ► WWDC.

00:48:23 ◼   ► WWVC.

00:48:24 ◼   ► Oh yeah, VC, sorry, sorry.

00:48:28 ◼   ► Worldwide Venture Capital.

00:48:29 ◼   ► No!

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00:50:15 ◼   ► and relay FM.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Listen, a friend of the show, Vidit, sent in a concept that they've been working on

00:50:22 ◼   ► for iPad multitasking. So we were talking about this last time. This is maybe my favorite

00:50:30 ◼   ► concept that I've seen so far about how somebody could improve multitasking. So there's a couple

00:50:37 ◼   ► of things going on here. Vidit is basically addressing three major areas. One is to, and

00:50:42 ◼   ► this is from Vidit's tweet, I'll include it in the show notes so you can watch the video

00:50:46 ◼   ► to provide a clear path to launch any app in split screen and this is done by this little

00:50:50 ◼   ► icon on the top right hand corner next to the clock.

00:50:53 ◼   ► You tap this icon and you get a little grid view pop up of your applications so you can

00:50:59 ◼   ► add another one in.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Right, very simple.

00:51:01 ◼   ► So that's how you add an app into the screen.

00:51:04 ◼   ► The second is to clearly show which app is in focus and this is done in two ways.

00:51:08 ◼   ► One the app that is not currently being interacted with is slightly greyed out, so it's still

00:51:14 ◼   ► visible if you need to see it but it's much cleaner to see which one is in focus.

00:51:19 ◼   ► Plus in the top left hand corner the two apps that are in split screen, their names are

00:51:24 ◼   ► written there and the in use one is both highlighted and larger in font size.

00:51:32 ◼   ► And if you switch between them this switches from left to right which is very nice.

00:51:36 ◼   ► And also it simplifies the multitasking screen by also adding in Control Center into that

00:51:42 ◼   ► area.

00:51:44 ◼   ► So Control Center and multitasking all in one place with the dock there as well.

00:51:49 ◼   ► So I just think this is a really useful, clean, powerful and simple version of iPad multitasking.

00:51:59 ◼   ► I think it's really great.

00:52:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:01 ◼   ► does of course introduce a new visual element that takes away somewhat from the app experience,

00:52:09 ◼   ► and that would be the taller status bar, which of course needs to be taller, because I've

00:52:14 ◼   ► been design this to account for the fact that tappable elements must be, I believe, at least

00:52:21 ◼   ► 44 points in size in the iOS and iPad OS UI, so the status bar needs to be taller.

00:52:27 ◼   ► But as you said, it's simpler and powerful at the same time, and it clarifies a lot of

00:52:32 ◼   ► the confusion that is typically associated with SplitView.

00:52:35 ◼   ► It doesn't necessarily take away from the dock, in the sense that Vidit doesn't show

00:52:40 ◼   ► this, but you may as well just invoke the dock as usual and just use drag and drop,

00:52:44 ◼   ► because it doesn't seem to suggest that drag and drop is just eliminated altogether.

00:52:49 ◼   ► There's just a basic, more intuitive way.

00:52:53 ◼   ► And also I want to say I'm 100% on board with the idea of putting Control Center in the

00:52:58 ◼   ► app picker.

00:52:59 ◼   ► This is something that I've always wanted to have.

00:53:01 ◼   ► And of course if you're going to have a button in the upper right corner of the status bar,

00:53:05 ◼   ► which is also where Control Center is activated right now, well then you would have to move

00:53:09 ◼   ► Control Center.

00:53:10 ◼   ► And I do believe that the app picker is where Control Center should be.

00:53:14 ◼   ► What I like about this concept that I hadn't noticed before Federico is when that button

00:53:18 ◼   ► is clicked, the dock also appears.

00:53:21 ◼   ► So you would then be able to I guess drag and drop out of there.

00:53:24 ◼   ► I hadn't noticed that because the Twitter web player puts all of its UI over that area.

00:53:30 ◼   ► So yeah, it's really nice.

00:53:32 ◼   ► I like the inclusion of the app name in the status bar.

00:53:36 ◼   ► The Mac does that we have the menu bar and right now mine says Safari because I'm looking

00:53:40 ◼   ► at our Google Doc in a browser.

00:53:43 ◼   ► And that is a nice little thing of hey, this works on the Mac, but we're going to bring

00:53:48 ◼   ► it to iPadOS in a way that is like native and makes sense there. And yeah, I like a

00:53:55 ◼   ► lot about this. I really do. And if it is additive to what we have now, then people

00:54:01 ◼   ► who are used to the drag and drop and the swipey deal, then you can just do that. But

00:54:06 ◼   ► if you want to use this little button and this new UI, I think it's a nice middle ground.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Do I think that this is what iOS 14 is going to look like? No. But just because like, what

00:54:18 ◼   ► is the chances of this happening but I do think this is like just another

00:54:22 ◼   ► basically what I like about these things is they give me hope that there are ways

00:54:26 ◼   ► to make this system better because smart people are able to come up to come up

00:54:31 ◼   ► with them. Vida is a very talented developer and designer. Am I losing my

00:54:35 ◼   ► mind or was multitasking and the control center stuff wasn't that in one screen on

00:54:41 ◼   ► some device at some point? Didn't it used to be? I believe it was either in in a

00:54:46 ◼   ► a leak or...

00:54:48 ◼   ► That's what it was. It was leaked to be in the iPhone.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Yes, we have seen this before but I do not believe it ever actually made it to a shipping version of iOS.

00:54:57 ◼   ► I think you're right.

00:54:59 ◼   ► It never was in a shipping version but I distinctly remember this image of an iPhone screen showing the control center next to the app picker, like on the same level.

00:55:11 ◼   ► Frankly, that could have just been a concept, one of the many, many concepts that have done

00:55:17 ◼   ► this.

00:55:18 ◼   ► I mean, it's better than the iOS 8 deal of putting your contacts in multitasking.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Do you remember that?

00:55:23 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:55:24 ◼   ► Yes, I do.

00:55:25 ◼   ► It's kind of just like the contacts in the share square.

00:55:28 ◼   ► That name's not going to take off, I hope.

00:55:30 ◼   ► I'm telling you right now, it's taken off.

00:55:33 ◼   ► It's good.

00:55:34 ◼   ► It's better than ShareSheet.

00:55:35 ◼   ► And I'm just going to keep saying it.

00:55:39 ◼   ► So I'm obviously behind on some podcasts. Okay. Yes, I'm behind. Gray's mom refers to

00:55:45 ◼   ► it as the Cher Square and both me and Gray think that that is a vastly superior name

00:55:52 ◼   ► than Cher Sheet. The Cher Square. Cher Square sounds cuter and also the icon is a square

00:55:58 ◼   ► with an arrow pointing out of it. Sure. And it's a much nicer name and makes more sense

00:56:03 ◼   ► share sheet. It's easier to say and more fun. I mean why not right why not well

00:56:12 ◼   ► except for the fact that you hate nicknames of things but maybe it's just

00:56:15 ◼   ► hardware I don't know. I have some real-time follow-up. Oh no is it

00:56:19 ◼   ► canceled? No I don't know. Stevensmerch.com with a PH and a V both now

00:56:27 ◼   ► redirect to the store. Was that the real-time follow-up? Yeah.

00:56:31 ◼   ► - Was it worth interrupting? - Hey man, I got, I got bills to pay.

00:56:38 ◼   ► - There's also a link, iOS 8. - Oh yeah, so people will remember what that looked like.

00:56:43 ◼   ► - I thought that was your real-time follow-up. - Oh no. Come on, that'd be silly.

00:56:49 ◼   ► - Stevensmerch.com almost sounds like Craigslist or something.

00:56:52 ◼   ► - It does! It really does! - You could look at that into like a bigger

00:56:56 ◼   ► thing. - Wait, is Craigslist because of somebody

00:57:00 ◼   ► named Craig? Yeah! It's the founder. Oh my god. It was the guy Craig. Oh my god. And you know,

00:57:05 ◼   ► like Myspace was just Tom Space. He was just referring to himself. I just, I just thought

00:57:09 ◼   ► that, that Craig's was like a word for something. Craig Newmark. He's like, "Hey, you want to buy

00:57:16 ◼   ► some Craig's?" Craig had a list. He has given, he's given away like millions and millions of dollars,

00:57:23 ◼   ► which is really cool. So like a guy named Craig, oh my god, so it's not, oh my. Yeah, we'll put

00:57:29 ◼   ► Craig Newmark's Wikipedia page in the show notes. This is like that time when I discovered that the

00:57:36 ◼   ► word "Christian" comes from Jesus Christ. I had that realization at 14, so quite late in my life.

00:57:42 ◼   ► Oh, interesting. Interesting.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I know. I know.

00:57:45 ◼   ► All right, Federico, I have been wanting to talk to you about this for a while. What in the world

00:57:53 ◼   ► does the ShiftScreen app do? This seems like something that shouldn't work.

00:57:57 ◼   ► OK, so this utility is a new app for iPad.

00:58:03 ◼   ► And I believe it's also on the iPhone,

00:58:04 ◼   ► but I've only used it on the iPad.

00:58:07 ◼   ► So what it does is it takes advantage of the existing APIs

00:58:11 ◼   ► for external displays to let you display in full screen,

00:58:17 ◼   ► so with no pillar boxing, either a web page or a document

00:58:23 ◼   ► on an external monitor.

00:58:25 ◼   ► So what you can do here is, when you open Shift Screen, you essentially have two different

00:58:30 ◼   ► views. It can be a Web view, or it can be a Document view, like a Document preview.

00:58:37 ◼   ► You create multiple tabs in Shift Screen, and then you decide what do you want to put

00:58:42 ◼   ► on the external display. And on the external display, because of the existing full-screen

00:58:47 ◼   ► APIs that developers, usually game developers, use, you can see a Web page or a PDF document

00:58:54 ◼   ► or something else without the black bars at the sides of that view. Now, this is quite

00:59:01 ◼   ► ingenious because of course this API was not meant for this kind of utility, but due to

00:59:06 ◼   ► a weird iPadOS, like, legacy feature, you can use ShiftScreen. So, follow me here. You

00:59:17 ◼   ► You can use Shift Screen in Split View next to something else, and even though you have

00:59:24 ◼   ► two apps active at the same time on your iPad, if Shift Screen is on the left side of the

00:59:31 ◼   ► Split View and only on the left side, it'll still be able to output a full screen view

00:59:39 ◼   ► of the external monitor.

00:59:41 ◼   ► So this is a legacy feature in that in the days of iOS 9, the leftmost app was considered

00:59:48 ◼   ► the primary app.

00:59:49 ◼   ► Yep, that's right.

00:59:50 ◼   ► And that was never changed behind the scenes.

00:59:54 ◼   ► So if you put Shift Screen on the right, it will not work.

00:59:57 ◼   ► But if you put it on the left, and it can be in any Split View size, even the compact

01:00:02 ◼   ► one, so you can have a tiny Shift Screen window on the left side of Split View, and then a

01:00:08 ◼   ► bigger Safari or Mail window on the right side, and then on the external monitor you

01:00:16 ◼   ► will still get a full screen web page or a full screen document.

01:00:20 ◼   ► So if you want to have a reference document or reference web page on an external display

01:00:28 ◼   ► while still working on your iPad with something else, this lets you do it.

01:00:33 ◼   ► And I've been talking to the developer, there are some features that I wanted to see and

01:00:38 ◼   ► the developer was kind enough to add them,

01:00:39 ◼   ► so now you can define a custom resolution,

01:00:42 ◼   ► a custom zoom size for the external monitor.

01:00:47 ◼   ► I believe they're also working on better media playback,

01:00:53 ◼   ► so maybe in the future you will be able to have

01:00:56 ◼   ► like a video playing on the external monitor.

01:00:59 ◼   ► But the idea here is that you just put it on the left side

01:01:02 ◼   ► of Split View on the iPad,

01:01:05 ◼   ► it'll still be considered the primary app by the system.

01:01:08 ◼   ► And because of that, you will be able to put right now

01:01:11 ◼   ► just web pages and documents on an external monitor.

01:01:15 ◼   ► - What does document mean?

01:01:17 ◼   ► - PDF documents, any other document that is previewable

01:01:20 ◼   ► with Quick Look on your iPad.

01:01:22 ◼   ► - In files.

01:01:24 ◼   ► - In files, yeah.

01:01:25 ◼   ► There's a file speaker and you just pick a document

01:01:27 ◼   ► and it previews.

01:01:28 ◼   ► Now, I've been using this as part of a bigger story

01:01:31 ◼   ► that I'm working on, but I've been using this

01:01:33 ◼   ► with portable external monitors.

01:01:37 ◼   ► So I'm trying a couple of them at the moment.

01:01:39 ◼   ► These are like monitors that are portable.

01:01:42 ◼   ► They have a built-in battery

01:01:43 ◼   ► and you just plug a USB-C cable.

01:01:45 ◼   ► - They're called iPads.

01:01:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:01:48 ◼   ► - No, but that's it, right?

01:01:49 ◼   ► They're not computers, they're just portable,

01:01:52 ◼   ► usually 1080p, 15-inch monitors.

01:01:56 ◼   ► Literally just a screen.

01:01:58 ◼   ► And you plug in the USB-C cable or an HDMI cable

01:02:02 ◼   ► and you just use the monitor.

01:02:03 ◼   ► And this way I can work on my iPad,

01:02:06 ◼   ► but also have a monitor next to me.

01:02:08 ◼   ► Usually if I don't wanna work in the bedroom,

01:02:11 ◼   ► like I can put the monitor on the kitchen table

01:02:13 ◼   ► and I can have a webpage on another side.

01:02:17 ◼   ► And of course that webpage,

01:02:18 ◼   ► you can scroll from shift screen,

01:02:21 ◼   ► you can swipe and scroll the webpage,

01:02:23 ◼   ► same with the documents.

01:02:25 ◼   ► - Like you can't like copy text out of it or anything,

01:02:28 ◼   ► I'm assuming?

01:02:29 ◼   ► - I'm not sure. - 'Cause it's just

01:02:30 ◼   ► a presentation, isn't it?

01:02:31 ◼   ► It's just a presentation. You can mirror the UI.

01:02:35 ◼   ► So I want to say that maybe there's, I'm not sure though.

01:02:38 ◼   ► I haven't tried to copy.

01:02:40 ◼   ► Maybe in the mirroring mode though, right?

01:02:42 ◼   ► Like you could do more.

01:02:44 ◼   ► So like when you're looking at a webpage in the full screen,

01:02:47 ◼   ► what are you seeing in shift screen?

01:02:48 ◼   ► What is it showing you?

01:02:50 ◼   ► That's what I was trying to say.

01:02:51 ◼   ► I think you can choose, you can have like a touch pad

01:02:54 ◼   ► or maybe you can have a smaller version of the page.

01:02:58 ◼   ► I believe usually just like a virtual touch pad

01:03:00 ◼   ► then you use that to scroll.

01:03:02 ◼   ► But this is, of course, this is ideal for like teachers

01:03:05 ◼   ► or anybody who wants to do presentations

01:03:08 ◼   ► while also continuing to work

01:03:11 ◼   ► on something else at the same time.

01:03:13 ◼   ► So like if you wanna do a lecture

01:03:15 ◼   ► and you also need to do something else while presenting,

01:03:18 ◼   ► you can put Shift Screen on the left side.

01:03:21 ◼   ► People will just see the webpage or document

01:03:24 ◼   ► that you wanna show them.

01:03:25 ◼   ► But on the right side, you can continue using Safari

01:03:28 ◼   ► or maybe you can tweet and pretend to be paying attention or whatever.

01:03:32 ◼   ► Have you ever given an lecture? Because I don't know what you think is happening whilst

01:03:36 ◼   ► the lecture's going on, right? Someone's like, "Oh, just hang on a minute. Let me just send

01:03:42 ◼   ► this tweet."

01:03:43 ◼   ► I mean, it feels within the realm of possibility to me that somebody has done a lecture so

01:03:49 ◼   ► many times that they could tweet at the same time. But also I have given a presentation

01:03:54 ◼   ► and the thought of other things occurred to me while talking. So like, I am capable of

01:04:01 ◼   ► brain multitasking, I guess. Right. But do you think you could have been able to record

01:04:06 ◼   ► them in any way whilst giving the presentation? I don't know, I haven't tried that. I remember

01:04:11 ◼   ► how nervous and focused you were, like I would be surprised. Yeah, I don't know, maybe I

01:04:16 ◼   ► wouldn't be able to. I mean, I also, I'm not a professional lecturer. True, true. Really?

01:04:22 ◼   ► It feels that way sometimes. I'm just kidding.

01:04:32 ◼   ► Nice joke, Dad. You did it.

01:04:37 ◼   ► You still got it. You still got it.

01:04:39 ◼   ► You found the one joke that worked. So, yeah, I mean, Shift Screen shouldn't be a thing,

01:04:47 ◼   ► but it's a thing and then of course,

01:04:49 ◼   ► all the limitations of the current external monitor system

01:04:53 ◼   ► apply, you cannot interact with that screen

01:04:57 ◼   ► using a mouse or a cursor and all that.

01:05:00 ◼   ► But if you wanna have a webpage or a document,

01:05:03 ◼   ► and maybe again, maybe in the future media

01:05:06 ◼   ► on an external monitor, this is a solution for now.

01:05:10 ◼   ► - This feels like it's gonna break at any moment.

01:05:12 ◼   ► - Yes. - Yeah.

01:05:13 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

01:05:14 ◼   ► It's just, it's like, it's a generic bridge

01:05:17 ◼   ► to an external display.

01:05:18 ◼   ► It's what it is that lets you pick the kind of content

01:05:21 ◼   ► that you wanna have on the external display.

01:05:22 ◼   ► But I believe this is the kind of thing

01:05:24 ◼   ► that as soon as Apple makes it like a proper feature

01:05:28 ◼   ► of iPadOS, this is gonna break.

01:05:30 ◼   ► Usually that's how it goes.

01:05:31 ◼   ► - All right, we have a little bit more to go,

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01:07:18 ◼   ► All right, so we wanted to wrap up this week

01:07:21 ◼   ► by talking about Mini LED.

01:07:23 ◼   ► And this comes from a new rumor

01:07:26 ◼   ► that basically is saying, I'm just gonna list these,

01:07:29 ◼   ► a 12.9 inch iPad Pro, a 27 inch iMac Pro,

01:07:33 ◼   ► a 14.1 inch MacBook Pro, a 16 inch MacBook Pro,

01:07:38 ◼   ► A 10.2 inch iPad, a 7.9 inch iPad mini,

01:07:42 ◼   ► particularly a new Apple Watch,

01:07:44 ◼   ► would all ship with mini LED technology from 2020 to 2021.

01:07:49 ◼   ► That's a lot of stuff.

01:07:51 ◼   ► - Now you're getting it?

01:07:52 ◼   ► These are not 12 products.

01:07:54 ◼   ► - This is one product. - This is one product.

01:07:57 ◼   ► (both laughing)

01:08:00 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

01:08:04 ◼   ► - With mini LED, we have created

01:08:05 ◼   ► the transformers of computers.

01:08:07 ◼   ► It's everything.

01:08:08 ◼   ► Steven, can you start before we dig into these actual products?

01:08:13 ◼   ► Can you actually tell us what mini LED is?

01:08:15 ◼   ► Yes, I can.

01:08:17 ◼   ► So if you think about a regular

01:08:19 ◼   ► non OLED display, so OLEDs are totally different, but like a regular LCD, like

01:08:24 ◼   ► in your your MacBook right now, it has

01:08:28 ◼   ► backlight LEDs.

01:08:30 ◼   ► And one thing that makes the Pro Display XDR special is that it has

01:08:35 ◼   ► lot of them and they're arranged in local dimming zones and what this means

01:08:40 ◼   ► is that the software can tell the screen okay this part needs to be darker than

01:08:45 ◼   ► this part and the more local dimming zones you have you get higher contrast

01:08:51 ◼   ► ratios and more dynamic range. Again this is why the Pro Display XDR is special

01:08:55 ◼   ► it's not OLED but I forget the number but it's it's a ton of these local

01:09:00 ◼   ► dimming zones with these backlight LEDs. What many LED does is it makes the those

01:09:06 ◼   ► LED components smaller, much smaller, and so you can not only cram in more of them

01:09:12 ◼   ► but you can cram in more local dimming zones so you can get even better

01:09:18 ◼   ► contrast and dynamic range than you could get from a typical LED backlit

01:09:23 ◼   ► display. So OLED of course has really good dynamic range and really great

01:09:29 ◼   ► contrast because black and OLED are pixels that are off. LEDs can't do that

01:09:35 ◼   ► but with ones that are smaller and with more dimming zones you can get closer to

01:09:40 ◼   ► it so it could pave the way for a nice display improvement without making

01:09:45 ◼   ► everything in our lives OLED. If you think about a computer display there are

01:09:51 ◼   ► a lot of manufacturers making OLED notebooks and you can do a couple of OLED

01:09:55 ◼   ► external displays, but you have burn-in issues and that's a bigger deal on

01:10:01 ◼   ► something like a desktop operating system where say the menu bar and the

01:10:04 ◼   ► dock are the same place for years on end as opposed to a phone where UI elements

01:10:10 ◼   ► change over a lot more often. So this could be a way forward for Apple in

01:10:14 ◼   ► improving their displays without going to OLED. And clearly, thank you very much

01:10:19 ◼   ► for that, and clearly with that kind of product turnover in two years this is

01:10:24 ◼   ► going to be like the new retina? Yeah I mean I don't know so I obviously haven't

01:10:29 ◼   ► seen any mini LED display this is new technology so I don't know if it will be

01:10:33 ◼   ► even noticeable to most people but or at least in a way that's like super

01:10:38 ◼   ► meaningful so I mean it more in a way like Apple will create probably a brand

01:10:43 ◼   ► name for this screen and then it will like come to everything they're gonna

01:10:46 ◼   ► give it some ridiculous name and yeah it will roll out so yes and that yes that's

01:10:50 ◼   ► why I misunderstood what you said and that way yes it'll be like retina where

01:10:53 ◼   ► just or true tone or anything else where it spreads but I think is in terms of

01:10:57 ◼   ► things you notice I think it's gonna be kind of like true to him like some

01:11:00 ◼   ► people see it some people don't but it makes everybody's life better even if

01:11:03 ◼   ► they don't realize it I think this will be something that you mostly know us

01:11:07 ◼   ► when consuming content like watching video looking at pictures right like

01:11:12 ◼   ► because that's where people I think care the most about HDR and contrast and

01:11:18 ◼   ► stuff right like oh yeah I kind of yeah so it's gonna be good there but so

01:11:23 ◼   ► So that's this technology, we don't really know how Apple is exactly going to implement

01:11:28 ◼   ► it yet so there maybe isn't too much we can talk about specifically with that.

01:11:32 ◼   ► But the thing that is I think even as if not more interesting from Ming-Chi Kuo's report

01:11:39 ◼   ► here is the amount of products listed in the timeframes for some of them.

01:11:44 ◼   ► So one of these things is iMac Pro and iPad Mini for 2020.

01:11:50 ◼   ► the only two dates that Kuo has given in this particular report. Kuo previously did say

01:11:57 ◼   ► that a 16-inch MacBook Pro with mini-LED would also come in Q4 2020, but that's not in this

01:12:03 ◼   ► current note. So we'll see. He did also again say the same about a 12.9-inch iPad Pro, which

01:12:11 ◼   ► if that's the case, that could be, we've spoken about this second iPad Pro maybe later in

01:12:17 ◼   ► the year that it could get 5G and the mini LED. The iMac Pro being listed here is great

01:12:25 ◼   ► because it means that it lives because I mean, I basically come to the conclusion that there

01:12:31 ◼   ► was it was one and done, but clearly not.

01:12:35 ◼   ► These reports from him are very component based, which is why I put a lot of I think

01:12:40 ◼   ► all of us put a lot of credence into what he says. You know, this being an iMac Pro

01:12:45 ◼   ► versus the regular iMac. I mean maybe that's muddy because the regular iMac is

01:12:49 ◼   ► not here for reasons we can talk about. But very clearly Apple is moving forward

01:12:54 ◼   ► with this technology and they feel confident enough to basically put it in

01:12:57 ◼   ► everything they're gonna update over the next couple of years it looks like. Maybe

01:13:00 ◼   ► the the MacBook Air is not in this list. I don't know I don't think that's been

01:13:04 ◼   ► mentioned previously but that's a low-end notebook. It just got True Tone

01:13:08 ◼   ► and its first revision and so maybe that one you know falls behind a little bit

01:13:12 ◼   ► but in a bunch of the nice hardware at least Apple's gonna be moving this direction.

01:13:17 ◼   ► The rumoured MacBook Pro, smaller MacBook Pro is I think maybe one of the first times given a size

01:13:26 ◼   ► 14.1 inches which is kind of around what people had expected that it would go to 14. Yeah for

01:13:33 ◼   ► many reasons right one just because the 15 went to 16 but also because then it further

01:13:38 ◼   ► differentiates it from the iPad Air from the MacBook Air. Also different from the iPad Air.

01:13:43 ◼   ► They're very differentiated now. Yeah. So but here's the thing right so Quo is saying you know

01:13:51 ◼   ► sometime in 2020 2021 for this 14.1 inch MacBook Pro with mini LED do you think that we will get

01:13:59 ◼   ► a regular LED version sooner or does this product not appear at all until then? I think we see a

01:14:06 ◼   ► regular one sooner look they've got to do something with that keyboard and I

01:14:09 ◼   ► Think it's totally fine if they revised any of these products before then and they just go to

01:14:16 ◼   ► many LED at some point down the road and remember like I could see like a

01:14:20 ◼   ► kicking the can down the road kind of thing where like you do the 14.1 say in the spring and then in like

01:14:27 ◼   ► October you do the 16 inch of mini LED and then the following year the 14 follows up again

01:14:34 ◼   ► And Apple has put the MacBook Pro on pretty much an annual cycle, more or less, since 2016.

01:14:41 ◼   ► And so that would fit in with that. Say there's a 14.1 this spring, you know, coronavirus and world

01:14:47 ◼   ► economy crashing aside, say there's one this spring. And the 16 will be a year old this fall.

01:14:53 ◼   ► So it gets the new display and the 14 follows next year. I think that's a totally natural path

01:14:58 ◼   ► for this to follow. Regular iMac is not listed at all here. Do you think, I mean my initial thought

01:15:06 ◼   ► was that it could be a price thing. Yeah. They may still redesign the iMac but they don't want to put

01:15:11 ◼   ► mini LED in it yet. I don't know. Yeah I don't know either. I mean if the MacBook Air is out

01:15:16 ◼   ► for price maybe the the iMac is as well or it could be and I don't I'm not basing this on

01:15:23 ◼   ► anything so you know take that for the grain of salt. It could be that larger

01:15:27 ◼   ► displays are trickier or a lot more expensive than small displays with this

01:15:31 ◼   ► because you think about the LEDs being smaller you need even more of them and

01:15:34 ◼   ► so it may be that the iMac Pro price can absorb this cost of this component but

01:15:40 ◼   ► the 27 and 21 inch iMac can't and so maybe it would get it a few years down

01:15:45 ◼   ► the road. I mean look the iMac, well Apple's done a good job at keeping the

01:15:49 ◼   ► GPU and the CPU updated on a pretty regular basis to your point the design

01:15:53 ◼   ► is old but it's you can still get with a spinning hard drive and all that stuff

01:15:57 ◼   ► so maybe the iMac just just follows along a few years later I'm not really

01:16:03 ◼   ► sure. There was a report from well there was some tweets sent out by a noted

01:16:10 ◼   ► leaker who goes by the name coin X on Twitter this person like accurately

01:16:16 ◼   ► predicted a bunch of stuff about the iPhone, like the name and stuff like that.

01:16:21 ◼   ► They tweeted today, they don't tweet very often, they tweeted today two tweets, one

01:16:27 ◼   ► saying "IMAC and Mac Mini soon" and that there is a new camera on the iPad and

01:16:31 ◼   ► it's great basically. So this would suggest that there is an iMac update

01:16:36 ◼   ► coming, but I wonder if... Well again it's been about a year and that's about where

01:16:42 ◼   ► Apple's been the last few years with it.

01:16:44 ◼   ► So it could just be just a regular-- like last year,

01:16:48 ◼   ► you guys covered it and upgraded really well.

01:16:50 ◼   ► That was just a pretty boring spec bump of the iMac.

01:16:52 ◼   ► Apple made a big deal of it, but it wasn't a big deal.

01:16:55 ◼   ► And maybe the iMac is just on that cycle in the Mac Mini

01:16:58 ◼   ► as well.

01:16:58 ◼   ► Hey, there's new processors.

01:16:59 ◼   ► Maybe there's some new GPU options.

01:17:01 ◼   ► We've tinkered with the configs a little bit.

01:17:02 ◼   ► But it's basically the machine that you know today.

01:17:06 ◼   ► It would be a shame if they-- the iMac deserves something.

01:17:11 ◼   ► It does.

01:17:12 ◼   ► totally deserves a redesign and especially the iMac Pro it's like this

01:17:17 ◼   ► is a really powerful machine you've put it in the same case so who knows what

01:17:21 ◼   ► what'll happen there it does feel like it's all due whether it comes with this

01:17:25 ◼   ► or not I mean who knows there was also there has also been previous this has

01:17:31 ◼   ► been previously rumored that micro LED was gonna come to the Apple Watch yeah I

01:17:35 ◼   ► wonder if this would be the first product yeah so micro LED is everything

01:17:41 ◼   ► I said about mini LED, but even smaller again, so it's okay

01:17:45 ◼   ► It's degrees of tininess and oh yeah, cause it's the same mini micro micro is micro. Okay?

01:17:51 ◼   ► Yeah, micro mini and then regular so that that rumors around for a long time

01:17:56 ◼   ► and it may be that the Apple watch goes to micro LED and

01:18:01 ◼   ► Everything else gets mini LED and just over time everything

01:18:05 ◼   ► Get smaller because all the benefits are there was interesting though is the Apple watch is OLED now and so

01:18:12 ◼   ► And one thing that's really nice about the Apple watch even with the always-on display is the blacks are just off and so it's really good

01:18:19 ◼   ► on battery and it looks really good with the black surround on the watch face and

01:18:23 ◼   ► Can if micro LED can really mimic what OLED does that would be awesome

01:18:30 ◼   ► But for my understanding that's even like many LEDs a step towards that and micro is even further

01:18:37 ◼   ► So maybe micro is just on the watch for a while

01:18:39 ◼   ► But if Apple does replace the OLED display on the Apple watch with the micro LED

01:18:43 ◼   ► They're really making a statement that this is as good as OLED and I would expect that we would see it on things like the iPhone

01:18:49 ◼   ► Pro and other devices in the future as well

01:18:52 ◼   ► There's one last product that I'm interested in here which is

01:18:59 ◼   ► The old iPad mini I got one right here

01:19:02 ◼   ► iPad mini I

01:19:04 ◼   ► be mentioned here is interesting I would love to see a

01:19:08 ◼   ► redesign

01:19:11 ◼   ► of this product

01:19:12 ◼   ► Can you imagine an iPad mini with?

01:19:15 ◼   ► With no bezels and how amazing that could be it'd be about the size of your big iPhone

01:19:24 ◼   ► Well, hmm not technically true, but sure we can do that if you want

01:19:29 ◼   ► But wouldn't that be cool though?

01:19:31 ◼   ► Like if you just had that seven point nine inch screen with a thin bezel around the outside

01:19:36 ◼   ► I mean nice it'd be super cool. I have to say I just think it would be nice

01:19:40 ◼   ► Very nice. It would be weird to see

01:19:43 ◼   ► The not do something different with that

01:19:46 ◼   ► Like I wouldn't want to say face ID because again like that

01:19:50 ◼   ► I don't know if Face ID going into the future is going to be the only thing that Apple have, right?

01:19:56 ◼   ► Like whether they would go back to Touch ID in some way. I think it would be really

01:20:02 ◼   ► interesting to see what they do with that. I cannot believe that they would

01:20:05 ◼   ► still, they would do all of that, like they will put that screen in it,

01:20:09 ◼   ► but keep the design the same, keep the Touch ID and the home button, they'd be kind of weird.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Do we want to talk about the upcoming iPad Pro?

01:20:17 ◼   ► Well...

01:20:19 ◼   ► I mean, yes, we saw that, like, I saw a report a couple of days ago that basically on the

01:20:27 ◼   ► line along the lines of there's limited stock of iPad Pro units at some Apple stores. So

01:20:33 ◼   ► maybe it could be a sign that a new iPad Pro is coming, but also maybe it may be nothing.

01:20:38 ◼   ► It may just be the impact, the impact of coronavirus. And as usual with these things, like it could

01:20:44 ◼   ► be this or it could be nothing. So like that was quite funny. But if we believe the timeline

01:20:49 ◼   ► there that a new iPad Pro was supposed to come out in the spring, then maybe, you know,

01:20:54 ◼   ► we're in March, so in theory a new iPad may come out this month, which is kind of wild

01:21:01 ◼   ► to think about because we're basically, you know, we've had a couple of rumors but that's

01:21:06 ◼   ► it. We know that there's a new camera and maybe there's going to be a smart keyboard

01:21:09 ◼   ► with the trackpad, which, you know, I have it in my queue, an episode of Upgrade where

01:21:17 ◼   ► Myke and Jason talked about this that I want to listen to. This is a report coming from

01:21:20 ◼   ► the information. Of course, this was, I believe it was rumored at some point in the past,

01:21:29 ◼   ► but now the information is putting their weight behind the support saying Apple is planning

01:21:33 ◼   ► this new keyboard. And again, we know nothing. We know, like, how is it going to work from

01:21:38 ◼   ► an ergonomic standpoint, what's it gonna look like, how big is the trackpad gonna be.

01:21:43 ◼   ► And personally I believe it's gonna be a small trackpad, I don't think it's gonna be a MacBook

01:21:46 ◼   ► size giant trackpad, I think it's gonna be a small one, like the Surface has, for example,

01:21:52 ◼   ► with the Surface Cover keyboard, I think it's gonna be a small one.

01:21:56 ◼   ► And I personally believe it's gonna be not just for text editing.

01:22:01 ◼   ► I believe if Apple decides to use that premium space for a physical trackpad, that trackpad

01:22:08 ◼   ► better be used for everything in the iPad OS UI. But this is all we have. We have no

01:22:15 ◼   ► other design details, we have no details on the materials being used. It's very likely

01:22:21 ◼   ► that it's going to look like a smart keyboard with the same fabric and the same smart connector

01:22:24 ◼   ► system but with the addition of a trackpad and maybe, of course, I suppose a different

01:22:29 ◼   ► angle for the iPad because you're going to have to make room for the trackpad in front

01:22:35 ◼   ► of the keyboard. I've seen some wild speculations and concepts from people saying "what if the

01:22:40 ◼   ► keyboard was the trackpad? What if you could just swipe your fingers over the keys and

01:22:45 ◼   ► the keys are also a trackpad?" I would hate that so much. I would hate that because it

01:22:49 ◼   ► would feel weird and also like these futuristic ideas, they make sense. Like, they make some

01:22:56 ◼   ► sense when they're a concept but then in practice, you know, physics comes in and say "hey guys,

01:23:01 ◼   ► I'm this thing called physics and you really can do that.

01:23:04 ◼   ► Hey guys, physics here.

01:23:06 ◼   ► Physics here, that is not possible.

01:23:08 ◼   ► So I think it's going to be a trackpad, a small one, nothing

01:23:11 ◼   ► revolutionary from a trackpad standpoint,

01:23:15 ◼   ► but absolutely important for the iPad as a product.

01:23:20 ◼   ► So this is where we're at.

01:23:22 ◼   ► Maybe a new iPad is coming out within the next 26 days,

01:23:25 ◼   ► or March has 30 or 31 days.

01:23:30 ◼   ► 34.

01:23:31 ◼   ► 34. So maybe it's coming out in the next 30 days or it's not. So this is fun and it's

01:23:40 ◼   ► supposed to have a new camera and major changes to the most important accessories. So I'm

01:23:46 ◼   ► excited but also is there going to be an event at this time considering all things?

01:23:53 ◼   ► I think at this point it is a bunch of press releases.

01:23:57 ◼   ► Yeah, that's which, you know, not as exciting in terms of...

01:24:02 ◼   ► Well, unless they want to test what WWE DC where no press is like and they just fill

01:24:07 ◼   ► their Steve Jobs Theater with a bunch of employees.

01:24:10 ◼   ► Maybe they're gonna have virtual briefings with the press. That could be a thing. Let's

01:24:14 ◼   ► meet on Skype and let us tell you about the new iPad. I don't know. I don't know. It's

01:24:19 ◼   ► exciting. I want to see this new iPad not for the camera, but for the keyboard. So we'll

01:24:25 ◼   ► see.

01:24:26 ◼   ► I think any reporting on the exact, like this product has shipped at this day and now it's

01:24:35 ◼   ► this day later.

01:24:37 ◼   ► Like at this point where the world is, I don't know if I'd read much into that.

01:24:40 ◼   ► Like even the iPhone 11 has slipped to like a week or two depending on the exact skew.

01:24:44 ◼   ► I think it's just, it could be that once coming it probably is, but I think any reporting

01:24:49 ◼   ► just on that at this point is a little short-sighted.

01:24:52 ◼   ► I'm about to go write a report.

01:24:54 ◼   ► a new iPhone 11 coming because it slipped by like a week.

01:24:59 ◼   ► Do it.

01:25:00 ◼   ► According to Stephen Hackett from stephensmerch.com.

01:25:03 ◼   ► stephensmerch.com.

01:25:04 ◼   ► dot com dot com.

01:25:07 ◼   ► Okay so I think that does it for this week.

01:25:10 ◼   ► If you want to find links to everything we spoke about you can look in your podcast app

01:25:15 ◼   ► or you can go to the website relay.fm/connected/284.

01:25:20 ◼   ► While you're there, you can send us an email with feedback or follow up.

01:25:23 ◼   ► You can become a member to support the show directly, or you can find us on Twitter.

01:25:28 ◼   ► Myke is there as I-M-Y-K-E and Myke is the host of a bunch of shows here on Relay FM.

01:25:35 ◼   ► You can find Federico on Twitter as Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I, and he's the editor-in-chief

01:25:40 ◼   ► of MacStories.net and the father of many home pods.

01:25:44 ◼   ► You can find me on Twitter as ismh and you can find all of my best work at stephensmerch.com.

01:25:53 ◼   ► I like to thank our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Bowl and Branch, and SaneBox.

01:25:59 ◼   ► Until next time gentlemen, say goodbye.

01:26:01 ◼   ► Adios.

01:26:02 ◼   ► Stevensmerch.com.

01:26:03 ◼   ► Adios.

01:26:03 ◼   ► Adios.