The Accidental Tech Podcast

183: I Filed a Radar


00:00:00   it is so hot in this room and so he mad [TS]

00:00:04   the humidity has been brutal here it's [TS]

00:00:07   only 77 degrees and i'm dying in this [TS]

00:00:09   room because it's so humid and of course [TS]

00:00:11   the product 90 degrees in his room [TS]

00:00:13   I feel great air-conditioning's on I [TS]

00:00:15   haven't put my slippers on mid-show [TS]

00:00:16   cause my feet were getting a little bit [TS]

00:00:17   cold [TS]

00:00:19   we should probably actually get started [TS]

00:00:21   huh [TS]

00:00:22   no that's making on the show none of it [TS]

00:00:24   not come on no yeah so here you know how [TS]

00:00:27   I'm gonna make you put some of that in [TS]

00:00:28   the show [TS]

00:00:28   watch this hey speaking of cars we [TS]

00:00:31   should probably do some follow-up [TS]

00:00:32   starting with more reasons for qnx akc [TS]

00:00:35   do we have any follow-up he just said [TS]

00:00:38   that so Casey do we have any follow-up [TS]

00:00:43   who he should probably start with the [TS]

00:00:45   follow-up Marco that your you make an [TS]

00:00:46   excellent point and we had an individual [TS]

00:00:49   right in with more reasons for using qnx [TS]

00:00:51   and these actually were the to my ears [TS]

00:00:55   and eyes the best reasons I've heard yet [TS]

00:00:58   and what if we basically boiled down to [TS]

00:01:00   was incredibly fast boot times were in [TS]

00:01:04   poor generally important for cars [TS]

00:01:06   because you don't want to say have to [TS]

00:01:08   wait until you're five minutes down the [TS]

00:01:09   road before your air conditioning or [TS]

00:01:11   radio turns on or something like that [TS]

00:01:12   and the other reason that this [TS]

00:01:14   individual gave was you know if you [TS]

00:01:16   think about it the instrument clusters [TS]

00:01:18   on a lot of cars are often driven by [TS]

00:01:20   some sort of display or perhaps driven [TS]

00:01:22   by signal that's coming off some [TS]

00:01:24   connects derived computer and those need [TS]

00:01:28   to be real time I mean that data needs [TS]

00:01:30   to show you exactly how fast you're [TS]

00:01:32   going right freaking now and so having a [TS]

00:01:34   real time I was like you index makes [TS]

00:01:36   that sort of thing a lot easier by [TS]

00:01:39   Tesla's system is not based in qns i'm [TS]

00:01:41   pretty sure it's just some kind of linux [TS]

00:01:42   and you can tell like you can tell you [TS]

00:01:45   did because like you know something like [TS]

00:01:47   again like that last one like most of [TS]

00:01:49   the time it works fine but sometimes [TS]

00:01:52   like we were of state and and I heard we [TS]

00:01:56   were driving around found out directions [TS]

00:01:57   and the map is getting a little bit [TS]

00:01:59   wonky like it was starting to like flick [TS]

00:02:01   out and slow down a little bit and like [TS]

00:02:02   not update quickly enough and that's [TS]

00:02:04   that's great to like you know when [TS]

00:02:05   you're following a map to enter my turn [TS]

00:02:07   and just doesn't update so you're [TS]

00:02:08   looking at like the last turn from 30 [TS]

00:02:11   seconds ago instead that's fun and then [TS]

00:02:13   there's one point where it made the turn [TS]

00:02:17   signal clicking sound when the turntable [TS]

00:02:20   wasn't on a what there was in one of the [TS]

00:02:24   like I described last episode that I've [TS]

00:02:26   had to reboot it three times so far over [TS]

00:02:28   the three or four months whatever it is [TS]

00:02:29   one of the times that i had to reboot it [TS]

00:02:32   immediately before hand the turn signal [TS]

00:02:35   was not clicking like it would turn on [TS]

00:02:36   and the light with the indicator blinks [TS]

00:02:38   in the dash but you wouldn't have a [TS]

00:02:39   click noise so obviously the clicking [TS]

00:02:41   noise is made by the center console [TS]

00:02:43   computer like that it's adding it to the [TS]

00:02:45   sound system and all likelihood anyway [TS]

00:02:48   so so the sims one of the symptoms I [TS]

00:02:51   knew something was wacky this time was [TS]

00:02:53   the turn signal noise started clicking [TS]

00:02:55   when a certain terms of was not on i was [TS]

00:02:58   driving straight down a road ahead and [TS]

00:02:59   text it like that was it [TS]

00:03:01   it's so that i rebooted again DX [TS]

00:03:03   goodness so yes I i would apprehend [TS]

00:03:07   anyone it's not booted the turn signal [TS]

00:03:09   does not like one is rebooting you can [TS]

00:03:11   turn and ended the indicator on the on [TS]

00:03:12   the dashboard did blink when it was when [TS]

00:03:15   it when the computer is booting like it [TS]

00:03:16   was still blinking and so I assumed this [TS]

00:03:18   signal is still on i hope the light was [TS]

00:03:20   still blinking outside the car but [TS]

00:03:22   there's no sound again it's like one of [TS]

00:03:24   those things where like when you tie [TS]

00:03:26   these things to software that you know [TS]

00:03:28   II you are at the whim of the software's [TS]

00:03:30   stability responsiveness up time you [TS]

00:03:35   know it's similar to like one of the [TS]

00:03:37   things that that I didn't like so much [TS]

00:03:39   for the Apple watch is so many at so [TS]

00:03:43   many interactions are tied to force [TS]

00:03:44   touch and when you when you push really [TS]

00:03:47   hard on the watch face too [TS]

00:03:51   and you expect that button click even [TS]

00:03:53   though it's not really a button even [TS]

00:03:54   though it's all fake and simulated you [TS]

00:03:55   know you expect that better click back [TS]

00:03:58   immediately as if it were a button and [TS]

00:04:00   the same thing with all the force touch [TS]

00:04:01   trackpad like they have the same the [TS]

00:04:03   same requirement like it has to respond [TS]

00:04:05   like the physical object that it is [TS]

00:04:07   mimicking right has to be quick it has [TS]

00:04:09   to be immediate [TS]

00:04:10   there can't be any delay on the watch [TS]

00:04:12   you know the watch is very slow hardware [TS]

00:04:14   wise and sometimes that sometimes the [TS]

00:04:15   software gets coming up a little bit and [TS]

00:04:17   so you push and sometimes delay before [TS]

00:04:19   actually clicks back at you and it [TS]

00:04:22   totally breaks the illusion that makes [TS]

00:04:23   it feel broken or cheap or wrong or you [TS]

00:04:26   know [TS]

00:04:27   whatever the case may be and that's [TS]

00:04:28   actually one concern I have with the [TS]

00:04:31   force touch home button that is rumored [TS]

00:04:33   to be in the next iphone that like you [TS]

00:04:35   know if you get if if you push that home [TS]

00:04:38   button and the iphone software is like a [TS]

00:04:40   little bit you know a little bit [TS]

00:04:42   overwhelmed or buggy or whatever if you [TS]

00:04:44   push that and you don't get a click feel [TS]

00:04:46   back first few seconds or at all like [TS]

00:04:49   that's gonna feel really broken really [TS]

00:04:51   quickly so anyway [TS]

00:04:53   similar thing with like this car stuff [TS]

00:04:54   like you know back to this follow-up [TS]

00:04:55   saying the QX is really good for boot [TS]

00:04:58   time and response times of interactions [TS]

00:05:00   like I totally get that and I totally [TS]

00:05:03   respect that because when you're tying [TS]

00:05:05   things to controls of physical object [TS]

00:05:08   that makes a big difference my complaint [TS]

00:05:10   about the ancient iphone 6 that I'm [TS]

00:05:11   using is that I have a physical home [TS]

00:05:13   button and I press it and it always you [TS]

00:05:15   know goes in just like you said I feel [TS]

00:05:17   that physical feedback immediately but [TS]

00:05:18   you know it doesn't happen immediately [TS]

00:05:19   springboard doesn't appear immediately [TS]

00:05:22   that's what does it by clicking and then [TS]

00:05:24   look at my phone like what are you what [TS]

00:05:25   are you doing well I push the button [TS]

00:05:27   I'm know i know i push it because it [TS]

00:05:28   went in and then i went out and then [TS]

00:05:30   I'll ok now the animation starting i'm [TS]

00:05:32   getting picking my old age I don't know [TS]

00:05:34   getting picky [TS]

00:05:35   what you should really do to make it [TS]

00:05:37   seem like your phone is even older [TS]

00:05:39   instead of saying my old iphone 6 you [TS]

00:05:41   should say my first iphone which i'm [TS]

00:05:43   still using that's true yeah I don't [TS]

00:05:46   think my cell phone sex is getting [TS]

00:05:47   slower but i'm just getting less and [TS]

00:05:49   less patient for like when it doesn't [TS]

00:05:51   respond i mean and i know it's not just [TS]

00:05:52   being slowly my ipad pro then I points7 [TS]

00:05:55   driver was pretty darn fast i still feel [TS]

00:05:57   like when i hit the home button on that [TS]

00:05:58   sometimes I have to wait I want them to [TS]

00:06:00   be instant just wait for the new touch [TS]

00:06:02   ID sensor it's pretty damn fast [TS]

00:06:05   yeah I know I that use my wife so I know [TS]

00:06:07   that the touch ID sensor scans I'm just [TS]

00:06:09   saying like I didn't feel like sometimes [TS]

00:06:11   it's not responding to me as immediately [TS]

00:06:13   as it has I feel like it should [TS]

00:06:15   who knows anyway the other thing this [TS]

00:06:18   person to say about you know why why do [TS]

00:06:20   cars have crappy hardware we read some [TS]

00:06:23   other feedback from someone who works on [TS]

00:06:25   these systems talking about the how the [TS]

00:06:28   car manufacturers want to save money and [TS]

00:06:29   pinch pennies and I said that was silly [TS]

00:06:30   couple of the factors that were also [TS]

00:06:33   mentioned many other people are really [TS]

00:06:34   very best [TS]

00:06:34   person is that this a long lead time on [TS]

00:06:36   hardware that goes into cars that [TS]

00:06:38   development cycles are really long so [TS]

00:06:40   they have to pick hardware that's [TS]

00:06:41   available like three years before the [TS]

00:06:43   carbon comes out and you know maybe it's [TS]

00:06:45   even longer so maybe like four or five [TS]

00:06:46   years but I'm coming over to pick [TS]

00:06:48   something that is currently like 3 45 [TS]

00:06:50   years old by the time the ships in the [TS]

00:06:51   car and finally stuff in cars has to [TS]

00:06:54   operate extremes of temperature if you [TS]

00:06:57   ever left your phone on the dashboard or [TS]

00:06:59   even in a sealed cubby inside your car [TS]

00:07:01   like not in the Sun but just tried [TS]

00:07:03   taking your phone and putting it in the [TS]

00:07:04   glove box or in the little console thing [TS]

00:07:06   anywhere inside your car on a hot day [TS]

00:07:08   when you come back [TS]

00:07:09   chances are good after being away for [TS]

00:07:11   several hours in the middle of the day [TS]

00:07:12   your device will refuse to function [TS]

00:07:14   because the temperature is too high and [TS]

00:07:16   the the chips in the car obviously can't [TS]

00:07:18   do that they have to continue working [TS]

00:07:20   even when they're like 250 degrees or [TS]

00:07:22   whatever and they have to continue [TS]

00:07:23   working on its negative 40 these are all [TS]

00:07:26   real temperatures not crazy Celsius [TS]

00:07:28   yeah haha similar like like if you ever [TS]

00:07:31   heard of like how slow the computers are [TS]

00:07:34   on satellites or the space shuttle [TS]

00:07:35   because like you know like you your [TS]

00:07:37   stories you know about like how they're [TS]

00:07:39   still running something that's about as [TS]

00:07:40   fast as like a 486 or something like [TS]

00:07:42   that and like the reason one of the [TS]

00:07:43   reasons why they have to use such slow [TS]

00:07:46   types of hardware is that they have to [TS]

00:07:48   operate in extreme conditions that would [TS]

00:07:50   just kill any you know like the chip [TS]

00:07:52   than an iphone and so it's similar but [TS]

00:07:54   less severe in a car [TS]

00:07:55   yeah that's their excuse but like still [TS]

00:07:57   it's a little ridiculous that you know [TS]

00:07:59   that the value is the washing machine [TS]

00:08:00   ships they're using like they're slower [TS]

00:08:02   than the ones in space probes the space [TS]

00:08:04   probes have powerpc 60 ones that are [TS]

00:08:05   like rad hardened in them and they're [TS]

00:08:08   using chips that are like from a gameboy [TS]

00:08:10   advance so it's see moresee that are [TS]

00:08:13   made a gameboy advance fast and that [TS]

00:08:14   anyway bottom line we have the [TS]

00:08:16   technology we can make the hardware in [TS]

00:08:18   cars better and i think we probably want [TS]

00:08:20   to shorten up the the cycle time on that [TS]

00:08:23   too i know it sort of all developed as [TS]

00:08:25   it as one big unit but you just can't [TS]

00:08:27   afford to do that if we have if a [TS]

00:08:29   manufacturer can show you in just a year [TS]

00:08:30   off of the cycle time and they can have [TS]

00:08:32   a year newer electronics that can make a [TS]

00:08:34   big difference i think especially like [TS]

00:08:36   that as the as the infotainment systems [TS]

00:08:38   and even the instrument clusters and all [TS]

00:08:39   that stuff becomes a more important [TS]

00:08:41   differentiator for cars as a software [TS]

00:08:44   becomes like all of the products [TS]

00:08:45   software becomes more [TS]

00:08:46   important part of the whole the whole [TS]

00:08:48   product mixture the company that can [TS]

00:08:50   figure that software out is gonna have a [TS]

00:08:51   big advantage [TS]

00:08:52   alright tell us about audio sync in [TS]

00:08:55   quartz crystals which we've gotten a lot [TS]

00:08:57   of feedback about market you want to [TS]

00:08:59   cover this [TS]

00:09:00   yeah sure so basically so you know the [TS]

00:09:02   last couple of days we discussed a while [TS]

00:09:05   back i discuss my my podcast tool to [TS]

00:09:07   automatically sync up tracks that were [TS]

00:09:09   recorded locally for each person [TS]

00:09:11   multi-person recording and then you know [TS]

00:09:13   sync it up to the master track because [TS]

00:09:16   if you try to import those tracks [TS]

00:09:18   manually you think it up the difference [TS]

00:09:20   in the in like the sense of time that [TS]

00:09:24   each person's audio interface had it [TS]

00:09:26   caused the problem called drift where if [TS]

00:09:29   you sink of our recordings like right up [TS]

00:09:30   front the beginning of the show an hour [TS]

00:09:32   in we might be out of sync by like half [TS]

00:09:35   a second or a second my microphone [TS]

00:09:37   interface the little you know converter [TS]

00:09:39   in it that samples the audio at 44100 [TS]

00:09:42   times per second has a very very very [TS]

00:09:44   slightly different interpretation of [TS]

00:09:47   what that means like have of how long a [TS]

00:09:49   second is or how how many times it has [TS]

00:09:51   to be then the one in cases of John's [TS]

00:09:53   computers and over time that very very [TS]

00:09:55   tiny error can add up to quite a lot and [TS]

00:09:58   so this caused the problem of drift [TS]

00:09:59   we've gotten lots of feedback about why [TS]

00:10:02   this happens last episode I speculated [TS]

00:10:05   that you're making these these [TS]

00:10:07   components physical components and any [TS]

00:10:10   little tiny bit of imprecision and [TS]

00:10:13   making them when you when you are taking [TS]

00:10:15   44,000 samples per second over two hours [TS]

00:10:19   a very small variance in the clock [TS]

00:10:23   performance of two different physical [TS]

00:10:25   devices will cause them to to disagree [TS]

00:10:28   into drift over time like this [TS]

00:10:29   so my speculation was basically like [TS]

00:10:31   it's not really possible to make [TS]

00:10:32   something that is that is cheap and a [TS]

00:10:34   computer like this that that is more [TS]

00:10:36   accurate than that and we have to deal [TS]

00:10:38   with it and we had lots of people right [TS]

00:10:39   in from the pro audio world and from [TS]

00:10:42   some people in from like the scientific [TS]

00:10:44   equipment world which is pretty cool [TS]

00:10:45   have pretty cool listeners also [TS]

00:10:47   confirming what I said last episode that [TS]

00:10:49   that pro audio gear actually people are [TS]

00:10:52   going to say also pro filmed here does [TS]

00:10:54   similar things rather than trying to [TS]

00:10:56   like sync up a bunch of different audio [TS]

00:10:58   tracks afterwards and software from [TS]

00:11:00   different audio recording sources that [TS]

00:11:02   might be on a film set or a recording [TS]

00:11:04   studio they use the concept of a master [TS]

00:11:07   clock and they have like one device [TS]

00:11:09   whether it's a clock generator or just a [TS]

00:11:11   device that content has an internal [TS]

00:11:12   clock and progear has usually clock in [TS]

00:11:15   and clock out ports on the back of it [TS]

00:11:17   and so you'd like to actually physically [TS]

00:11:19   wire all to each other and they like [TS]

00:11:22   coordinate the clock based on one master [TS]

00:11:23   source rather than each device keeping [TS]

00:11:25   its own clock and therefore reducing [TS]

00:11:26   this drift was a lot of people wrote in [TS]

00:11:28   saying that was true and then the best [TS]

00:11:30   feedback we got I I very casually [TS]

00:11:32   mentioned last episode that i had just [TS]

00:11:34   anecdotally found that laptops are [TS]

00:11:37   generally generally have more drift then [TS]

00:11:40   like a mac pro or a desktop or like an [TS]

00:11:42   imac and it turns out there's a basis [TS]

00:11:44   for this the quartz crystals that [TS]

00:11:46   vibrate at particular frequencies that [TS]

00:11:49   create these clocks these devices that [TS]

00:11:51   have to be so accurate they are very [TS]

00:11:53   dependent on stable temperature and if [TS]

00:11:56   you if they don't have a stable [TS]

00:11:57   temperature that are operating or even [TS]

00:11:59   if it's just two different operating two [TS]

00:12:00   different temperatures that can cause [TS]

00:12:03   these these very very slight differences [TS]

00:12:05   and laptops usually their internal [TS]

00:12:08   components usually operate hotter than [TS]

00:12:11   desktops and also fluctuate more and you [TS]

00:12:14   know desktops have much bigger heatsink [TS]

00:12:16   mechanisms they have usually larger fans [TS]

00:12:18   are spinning faster and pushing more air [TS]

00:12:20   of them so desktop to be cooled better [TS]

00:12:22   and so I think that alone might explain [TS]

00:12:25   that little thing that yes this is this [TS]

00:12:28   is a this is worse on laptops or when [TS]

00:12:31   you have like one desktop on one end and [TS]

00:12:34   the other person other end is using a [TS]

00:12:35   laptop that might have more drift [TS]

00:12:37   between them then if both people reason [TS]

00:12:38   desktops or able people using laptops [TS]

00:12:40   and this is related to what I the the [TS]

00:12:43   reason i was i put the original feedback [TS]

00:12:45   and follow-up from like this seems weird [TS]

00:12:48   to me tell me we can make quartz [TS]

00:12:49   crystals that I can because I remember [TS]

00:12:51   him you know of [TS]

00:12:53   world of watches which i'm not that [TS]

00:12:54   involved in but they do you know the [TS]

00:12:55   fancy mechanical Rogers obviously are [TS]

00:12:57   terrible keeping time because i have a [TS]

00:12:58   bunch of gears and stuff but like you [TS]

00:13:00   know and Tencent quartz watch keeps [TS]

00:13:02   amazing time for you know for an entire [TS]

00:13:04   year maybe we'll lose a second it's like [TS]

00:13:06   so how do you make a stupid plastic [TS]

00:13:08   quartz watch that keeps amazing time is [TS]

00:13:10   very accurate over the course of an [TS]

00:13:11   entire year but we can make a quartz [TS]

00:13:12   crystal for our computer that is equally [TS]

00:13:15   accurate and there are a bunch of [TS]

00:13:16   factors that have to go into that having [TS]

00:13:18   to do with the specifics of the quality [TS]

00:13:20   of the crystals or even for tents and [TS]

00:13:22   watch or whatever but one of our readers [TS]

00:13:24   a reader's whatever is road and tell us [TS]

00:13:27   that the advantage of watch has is that [TS]

00:13:30   is essentially kept at an even [TS]

00:13:31   temperature by being next to your skin [TS]

00:13:33   so you are essentially temperature [TS]

00:13:35   regulating the watch the entire time [TS]

00:13:37   you're wearing it and that's the best [TS]

00:13:38   thing for a quartz crystal actually in [TS]

00:13:40   scenarios where they really want them to [TS]

00:13:42   be stable they put them in a little [TS]

00:13:43   every what they called it but they put [TS]

00:13:45   him in a little device that keeps it a [TS]

00:13:46   stable temperature so having a watch and [TS]

00:13:49   wearing it all the time keeps it [TS]

00:13:51   accurate much more elaborate than you [TS]

00:13:52   know a laptop that you're the [TS]

00:13:54   temperatures are going up and down and [TS]

00:13:55   you're putting it to sleep and you're [TS]

00:13:56   playing a game and it's just it's all [TS]

00:13:57   over the map so this is all very [TS]

00:14:00   explicable and now we should feel every [TS]

00:14:03   time you learn anything about the actual [TS]

00:14:04   analog physical world of components [TS]

00:14:07   inside your computer makes you feel [TS]

00:14:08   scared and so now you can know that uh [TS]

00:14:09   thing the regulating the clocks or [TS]

00:14:11   pieces of crap to and change all the [TS]

00:14:13   time you do it [TS]

00:14:15   yeah like whenever you learn about the [TS]

00:14:16   analog component world lucky you start [TS]

00:14:18   like we we live in like this digital [TS]

00:14:20   world where we think everything is just [TS]

00:14:21   like you know one is just on 20 is just [TS]

00:14:24   off and of course when you get into the [TS]

00:14:26   analog level of like the physical [TS]

00:14:28   implementation of these chips and these [TS]

00:14:30   components it isn't that simple and [TS]

00:14:32   everything is kind of like tolerances [TS]

00:14:34   and variances an approximation and [TS]

00:14:37   tricks and like it's kind of amazing all [TS]

00:14:40   the stuff we have works at all as [TS]

00:14:41   consistently as it does [TS]

00:14:42   yep i'm even just a clock like you learn [TS]

00:14:44   from like CPU design and even is [TS]

00:14:46   propagating the clock signal around the [TS]

00:14:47   died of a large cpu is kind of it's kind [TS]

00:14:49   of sketchy at best of all sorts of [TS]

00:14:51   phase-locked loops and other things to [TS]

00:14:53   make sure that that actually propagates [TS]

00:14:55   everywhere and it's the same everywhere [TS]

00:14:56   and you have delays and yeah so anyway I [TS]

00:14:59   think we are now all completely [TS]

00:15:01   satisfied [TS]

00:15:02   that we understand why Marcus tool is [TS]

00:15:04   necessary in life [TS]

00:15:05   yep and speaking of in your quest to [TS]

00:15:09   avoid doing actual work you actually [TS]

00:15:11   filed radar [TS]

00:15:13   yes I did I'm very proud of you yeah do [TS]

00:15:16   you want to tell us about this okay so [TS]

00:15:18   last episode in the after-show I got my [TS]

00:15:22   time in the Sun or whatever the metaphor [TS]

00:15:26   is and but whatever floats your bubble [TS]

00:15:29   and so I got I got to finally explain [TS]

00:15:33   the details of the mp3 file format and [TS]

00:15:36   the the efforts i was trying to do with [TS]

00:15:38   variable bit rate or vbr encoding and [TS]

00:15:41   why podcasts couldn't practically use [TS]

00:15:44   vbr encoding which basically boils down [TS]

00:15:46   to the method to seek a vbr file that [TS]

00:15:49   you don't have also like if you if you [TS]

00:15:52   are playing a stream and and the user [TS]

00:15:54   jumps ahead to a timestamp its way for [TS]

00:15:56   the stream you haven't downloaded like [TS]

00:15:58   the part of the file between those two [TS]

00:16:00   points [TS]

00:16:00   you can't really know exactly what bite [TS]

00:16:02   position to jump to to get to know [TS]

00:16:05   timestamp one hour 30 without using [TS]

00:16:08   these look-up tables at the beginning of [TS]

00:16:09   the VBR file that just don't have very [TS]

00:16:11   much precision in mode in the current [TS]

00:16:13   standards are in the old standard [TS]

00:16:15   they're very precise and so over the [TS]

00:16:17   course of it to our podcast you only [TS]

00:16:19   have in in the most common jump table [TS]

00:16:21   for i only have a hundred entries so you [TS]

00:16:23   have you know minute precision at best [TS]

00:16:26   you know it might even be less than a [TS]

00:16:28   precision I've learned a lot since then [TS]

00:16:30   I did a lot of experimentation I talked [TS]

00:16:32   to a bunch of people and I learned a lot [TS]

00:16:35   about this so I was recommending the use [TS]

00:16:37   of this there's a 93 tag its abbreviated [TS]

00:16:42   MLT 4mp location lookup table and this [TS]

00:16:46   is basically a 93 tag version of the VBR [TS]

00:16:50   offset jumped able to tell you you know [TS]

00:16:52   which bites map to which time stamp so [TS]

00:16:54   you can jump between the file easily [TS]

00:16:55   without having to have down the whole [TS]

00:16:57   thing just you know skander manually the [TS]

00:16:59   benefit of the id3 tag is that it can be [TS]

00:17:01   any size like the the VBR jump table [TS]

00:17:04   thing is restricted to the size of like [TS]

00:17:06   the one mp3 frame that they shoved it [TS]

00:17:09   into for compatibility reasons so it has [TS]

00:17:11   to be like basically below kilobyte or [TS]

00:17:13   so the id3 tag [TS]

00:17:15   can be anything you want to be so the [TS]

00:17:17   id3 tag version this would be great [TS]

00:17:19   because you can you can basically have [TS]

00:17:21   arbitrary precision as much space as [TS]

00:17:22   you're willing to devote to this and [TS]

00:17:24   like for me like i was able to encode [TS]

00:17:26   one second precision of the time stamps [TS]

00:17:28   with something like 16 kilobytes of a [TS]

00:17:31   total jump table so for like a 45-minute [TS]

00:17:34   by podcast 16k for some table is fine [TS]

00:17:37   and by having vbr you're saving like 20 [TS]

00:17:40   megs on the file size in a case of it's [TS]

00:17:43   totally worth the savings to embezzle [TS]

00:17:45   table so I also heard from Devon govorit [TS]

00:17:48   after recording last episode i [TS]

00:17:50   discovered a github open source project [TS]

00:17:53   called audio cogs and and there's a [TS]

00:17:56   group people who make JavaScript [TS]

00:17:58   implementations of decoders for mp3 AAC [TS]

00:18:02   a couple of the audio formats and a [TS]

00:18:04   whole audio player all written in [TS]

00:18:06   JavaScript that can act like decode and [TS]

00:18:08   play these audio formats entirely in [TS]

00:18:11   JavaScript and that support MLT tag [TS]

00:18:14   these property BR seek methods and [TS]

00:18:17   everything it's it's and if they didn't [TS]

00:18:18   it's an easy way for me to add support [TS]

00:18:20   to this like that i could then have my [TS]

00:18:23   sites web player switch to this and then [TS]

00:18:25   i would i would eliminate his problem [TS]

00:18:27   anyway so I heard from one of the [TS]

00:18:29   authors of this devin govett we went [TS]

00:18:31   back and forth a few times [TS]

00:18:33   Devon informed me that the front offer [TS]

00:18:35   vbr I tag which is an alternative [TS]

00:18:38   version of the that stupid 100 entry [TS]

00:18:41   jump table is basically more precise [TS]

00:18:44   version that it still has to fit within [TS]

00:18:45   1 mp3 frame but instead of being a [TS]

00:18:48   hundred bites it can be like 1.3 [TS]

00:18:51   kilobytes so that's like that's better [TS]

00:18:54   you know that's you have more space more [TS]

00:18:56   precision medicine experimentation with [TS]

00:18:58   that couple problems came up though [TS]

00:19:00   first discovered in the experimentation [TS]

00:19:02   going back and forth Devon that not only [TS]

00:19:04   does apples decoder not support the MLT [TS]

00:19:10   or the this VRI tag that has the more [TS]

00:19:12   precise version even that that stupid [TS]

00:19:15   little hundred bite version in the in [TS]

00:19:17   the King tag that we talked about last [TS]

00:19:18   episode [TS]

00:19:19   apple doesn't use it there decoder [TS]

00:19:22   completely ignores it [TS]

00:19:23   it does read these tags to get the [TS]

00:19:26   duration of the files so it's it's [TS]

00:19:29   parsing them because the duration is [TS]

00:19:30   also one of the fields in these tags so [TS]

00:19:33   it reads them for the duration and if [TS]

00:19:34   you add them in a hex editor and you put [TS]

00:19:36   in duration you want their will show up [TS]

00:19:37   like a quick look at everything as a [TS]

00:19:38   duration so we know it's reading them [TS]

00:19:39   but it completely ignores any of the [TS]

00:19:42   entries that are in these seek tables [TS]

00:19:44   that tell it which bite maps two weeks [TS]

00:19:46   time stamp in any of these forms that [TS]

00:19:48   ignores all of them [TS]

00:19:49   this is bad so I basically wrote up a [TS]

00:19:52   bug report and I i emailed some people [TS]

00:19:54   inside Apple to say like you know like [TS]

00:19:55   hey here's here's the problem having and [TS]

00:19:57   you know if if you guys would support [TS]

00:20:00   really any of these formats it except [TS]

00:20:03   for maybe that maybe the stupid hundred [TS]

00:20:04   white one but if if you support the [TS]

00:20:06   front for bri frame or the awesome MLT [TS]

00:20:10   id3 tag either of those would provide [TS]

00:20:13   useful precision for to our podcast to [TS]

00:20:16   be able to seek reliably within within 1 [TS]

00:20:18   to 10 seconds of the desired point as [TS]

00:20:20   opposed to the stupid hundred white one [TS]

00:20:22   which is like a minute off and their [TS]

00:20:24   their estimation which is which could be [TS]

00:20:26   any amount off really and is frequently [TS]

00:20:27   like 32 34 36 seconds off anyways female [TS]

00:20:30   this around and I made a blog post [TS]

00:20:32   basically make as much noise as possible [TS]

00:20:34   about this issue because i've i've [TS]

00:20:37   realized I'm sorry for the massive [TS]

00:20:38   diversion here I i like talking about [TS]

00:20:40   like Randy apple stuff on a podcast [TS]

00:20:43   where doesn't get me in trouble and [TS]

00:20:44   where you guys can take me a little bit [TS]

00:20:46   and rebut me it's better for me to [TS]

00:20:48   reserve my blog for issues of maybe [TS]

00:20:53   greater importance or more boring topics [TS]

00:20:56   or whatever else [TS]

00:20:58   my blog is a great way to spread a [TS]

00:21:00   message to people who don't always [TS]

00:21:03   follow me and that is often the problem [TS]

00:21:06   like when i get myself into hot water [TS]

00:21:08   it's often because a whole bunch people [TS]

00:21:10   who don't follow me and don't really get [TS]

00:21:12   my context are reading something that I [TS]

00:21:15   didn't write very well and where I [TS]

00:21:17   assume people would get my contacts and [TS]

00:21:19   understand me and they'd be the ones [TS]

00:21:20   reading it and that gets me into trouble [TS]

00:21:23   but something like this like we're [TS]

00:21:25   requesting you know that Apple implement [TS]

00:21:27   an esoteric standard of the mp3 file [TS]

00:21:30   format that's 20 years old that is [TS]

00:21:32   really boring and doesn't spread into [TS]

00:21:34   business insider or CNBC and there's not [TS]

00:21:37   much embedded really controversial [TS]

00:21:38   although hacker news found some things [TS]

00:21:40   but most people would not find this [TS]

00:21:42   controversial [TS]

00:21:42   so this is i think is a very good use of [TS]

00:21:45   my blog and kind of its helping inform [TS]

00:21:47   me like how i should use my various [TS]

00:21:50   outlets looking for anyway I found a [TS]

00:21:52   giant bug report with example files an [TS]

00:21:54   example of why why their way of just [TS]

00:21:57   ignoring you seek tables for long BRB [TS]

00:21:59   threes was bad what you know what's bad [TS]

00:22:02   how you can fix it that's it that's [TS]

00:22:04   there's nothing has happened yet on this [TS]

00:22:05   front however i have gotten rumblings [TS]

00:22:08   here and there that this that this bug [TS]

00:22:11   report has traveled inside of Apple but [TS]

00:22:13   that's all I know and I don't know [TS]

00:22:14   anything else that's going on with it [TS]

00:22:16   it is probably too late even if Apple [TS]

00:22:18   decided I was right and they want to do [TS]

00:22:20   this it is almost certainly too late to [TS]

00:22:22   get into iOS 10 or mac OS Sierra but I [TS]

00:22:27   would just love for this to happen [TS]

00:22:28   sometime soon and the main reason why I [TS]

00:22:31   can't do the audio cogs and the average [TS]

00:22:36   is like that the JavaScript version that [TS]

00:22:38   is only about a minute ago the html5 [TS]

00:22:40   audio element can fetch a file from [TS]

00:22:42   basically anywhere but for javascript [TS]

00:22:45   file you were into all these cores [TS]

00:22:46   issues and you also you can't cross from [TS]

00:22:50   https to http and all this is like all [TS]

00:22:53   these restrictions of like you know for [TS]

00:22:55   various web security purposes all these [TS]

00:22:57   restrictions on what [TS]

00:22:59   javascript is allowed to fetch from and [TS]

00:23:02   for me to be able to play podcast from [TS]

00:23:04   arbitrary podcast hosts i basically can [TS]

00:23:07   use this thing I could run a proxy but [TS]

00:23:09   if i do that then the podcasters don't [TS]

00:23:12   get unique hit information really so [TS]

00:23:15   that's no good [TS]

00:23:16   so it's there's a whole bunch of crappy [TS]

00:23:18   reasons why I'd in practice I can't use [TS]

00:23:21   the JavaScript approach just decoded the [TS]

00:23:23   whole file in java script and basically [TS]

00:23:25   wearing been working on decoders so I [TS]

00:23:27   i'm relying on Apple I have to if if if [TS]

00:23:30   podcast vbr ever going to happen [TS]

00:23:32   Apple has built in 30 coders that's it [TS]

00:23:34   well but hold on so a couple of [TS]

00:23:37   questions here first of all let's assume [TS]

00:23:39   you did desired proxy it because this [TS]

00:23:42   was that important you for the web [TS]

00:23:44   client [TS]

00:23:45   why couldn't you proxy each request [TS]

00:23:47   individually I mean it's a it's a [TS]

00:23:49   credible bandwidth but is there any [TS]

00:23:51   other reason why you couldn't do that so [TS]

00:23:53   at least they're all of these hits our [TS]

00:23:54   unique just [TS]

00:23:55   coming from you and not the actual [TS]

00:23:56   person that's asking for him [TS]

00:23:58   the main problem with with that is that [TS]

00:24:01   even if you are connected the proxy such [TS]

00:24:03   that every inbound request equal one [TS]

00:24:06   back and outbound request which would be [TS]

00:24:08   silly in general but in this case may [TS]

00:24:10   make sense right so even if you did that [TS]

00:24:12   the requested still appear to be all [TS]

00:24:15   coming from one IP address [TS]

00:24:17   sure so and most know it's kind of a [TS]

00:24:19   hotly debated topic and the podcast of [TS]

00:24:21   like what counts as a download and you [TS]

00:24:24   know because there's it's as as with [TS]

00:24:26   most things it's complicated ahead so [TS]

00:24:28   you can't just say oh well let me hit [TS]

00:24:29   you get noticed work that way because [TS]

00:24:31   that's it [TS]

00:24:32   yeah it doesn't matter listen [TS]

00:24:34   necessarily so anyway most podcast host [TS]

00:24:37   have their own idea of what what damage [TS]

00:24:40   account as and most of them involve the [TS]

00:24:42   IP address of the source in some way so [TS]

00:24:45   it might be like you know a unique [TS]

00:24:47   downloads like one IP like the IP has to [TS]

00:24:50   be unique within a certain time interval [TS]

00:24:52   for it to count as unique download or [TS]

00:24:54   something like that like their there's [TS]

00:24:55   all these different tricks that people [TS]

00:24:56   do but basically if all the request came [TS]

00:24:59   from my single IP that was running the [TS]

00:25:01   proxy it would not get people's statute [TS]

00:25:04   under count that being said i actually [TS]

00:25:08   already wrote and run one such proxy i [TS]

00:25:11   already have this and I designed exactly [TS]

00:25:14   this way and that has exactly this [TS]

00:25:15   problem and the only reason that I that [TS]

00:25:19   it's not really a problem that hasn't [TS]

00:25:20   got me into any hot water with anybody [TS]

00:25:22   is because it's hardly ever used and I [TS]

00:25:25   designed it because overcast has a [TS]

00:25:27   twitter card on any share link i have [TS]

00:25:29   twitter cards and so that it so if you [TS]

00:25:31   view that with overcast link on twitter [TS]

00:25:33   website or in any other client support [TS]

00:25:36   the cards which is very few of them in [TS]

00:25:37   practice i show a whole little overcast [TS]

00:25:39   embedded player and it works it's great [TS]

00:25:41   so you know you can stream into [TS]

00:25:42   timestamps it works perfectly like the [TS]

00:25:44   website but tiny twigs cars require that [TS]

00:25:47   all assets loaded through them must be [TS]

00:25:49   served over https so i actually have [TS]

00:25:53   kind of like a little little function [TS]

00:25:55   like a mapping that many big podcast [TS]

00:25:57   host including libsyn our hosts many of [TS]

00:26:00   them have like just like a simple like [TS]

00:26:03   way to you can transform their they're [TS]

00:26:04   not they're insecure urls in to https [TS]

00:26:08   urls like [TS]

00:26:09   simple string replacement on certain [TS]

00:26:10   things and everything so like some hosts [TS]

00:26:13   i can just redirect with I could just [TS]

00:26:14   redirect that's fine but not all hosts [TS]

00:26:17   and so that so I actually run this proxy [TS]

00:26:20   that does this that follows redirects [TS]

00:26:22   and when it you know when it went to [TS]

00:26:23   host it knows about it can just keep it [TS]

00:26:25   continued along when it's not it does [TS]

00:26:27   that proxy of one-to-one connection [TS]

00:26:29   mapping exactly the way you think and [TS]

00:26:31   the only reason it isn't a problem for [TS]

00:26:32   either my bandwidth costs or people in [TS]

00:26:34   anatomy is that the cards get pretty low [TS]

00:26:37   usage relatively speaking i mean that [TS]

00:26:39   not a lot of people play podcast that [TS]

00:26:41   way as far as i know so that's the only [TS]

00:26:43   reason that works and to answer glasses [TS]

00:26:46   underscore in the chat room who said [TS]

00:26:49   send them something like the [TS]

00:26:50   x-forwarded-for header that I do send [TS]

00:26:54   x-forwarded-for that is a header that [TS]

00:26:55   that proxy is used to tell what they're [TS]

00:26:58   fetching from the the IP of the person [TS]

00:27:01   fetching it from them so it's kind of a [TS]

00:27:03   way to look forward [TS]

00:27:04   they're the source IP problem is you [TS]

00:27:06   can't trust that so if you have a [TS]

00:27:08   podcast metrics thing that is trying to [TS]

00:27:10   measure like unique IPS in an honest [TS]

00:27:12   fashion you can't really trust if [TS]

00:27:15   somebody sends you next 44 header and [TS]

00:27:17   you get a whole bunch of you get a whole [TS]

00:27:18   bunch of requests from one real IP but [TS]

00:27:21   that IP so i'm actually 40 these [TS]

00:27:23   requests from these other 10,000 ip's [TS]

00:27:25   you really can't trust that for purposes [TS]

00:27:27   of stats that you tell sponsors our [TS]

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00:27:32   betterment is the largest independent [TS]

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00:27:36   you probably hearing a lot about [TS]

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00:27:40   outlets because betterment makes it [TS]

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00:28:11   fees now they're regular fees are [TS]

00:28:13   already very low way lower than what you [TS]

00:28:15   think for most financial advisors up to [TS]

00:28:17   six months of no fees but going to [TS]

00:28:19   betterment calm / ATP that's betterment [TS]

00:28:22   com [TS]

00:28:23   / ATP betterment investing made better [TS]

00:28:26   ah so you had said before [TS]

00:28:31   well if Apple just implements this then [TS]

00:28:34   then you can start using it on the web [TS]

00:28:37   because the html5 audio tag along [TS]

00:28:39   Google's supported at cetera but what [TS]

00:28:42   about your beloved windows users or you [TS]

00:28:45   know next year is going to be the year [TS]

00:28:47   of linux on the desktop so what about [TS]

00:28:48   them [TS]

00:28:49   first of all we don't have that many of [TS]

00:28:51   them honestly like not a lot of people [TS]

00:28:53   video use windows and and use my app or [TS]

00:28:58   follow my sharing generated by my app or [TS]

00:29:00   anything else and i would love to change [TS]

00:29:01   that because there are other users out [TS]

00:29:03   there i would love for more windows [TS]

00:29:05   people to see the share links from [TS]

00:29:06   overcast because that would mean that [TS]

00:29:08   the share links are being spread far and [TS]

00:29:09   wide and that's the whole point of the [TS]

00:29:10   share links but reality is different [TS]

00:29:13   reality is that they they really don't [TS]

00:29:15   get much windows you look at all so [TS]

00:29:17   that's that's problem number one or [TS]

00:29:18   rather dodge number one where i can [TS]

00:29:20   dodge this issue but same reason why I [TS]

00:29:24   never test my websites in IE because I'm [TS]

00:29:26   my audience my customer bases tend to [TS]

00:29:28   have such incredibly low IE or whatever [TS]

00:29:31   is called now what does it call now reg [TS]

00:29:33   reg reg anyway the the main reason why i [TS]

00:29:42   don't really need to care that much [TS]

00:29:44   about this problem for other browsers [TS]

00:29:46   other than like things that use apples [TS]

00:29:47   built-in decoders and my own app is [TS]

00:29:51   because it's only a problem for seeking [TS]

00:29:54   to time stamps that haven't been [TS]

00:29:56   downloaded that's it in it in all other [TS]

00:29:59   ways vbr mp3 to work great already [TS]

00:30:01   mentioned the same problem even if i [TS]

00:30:03   added support for it that it doesn't [TS]

00:30:04   matter because you have to wait for [TS]

00:30:06   everyone to upgrade to an operating [TS]

00:30:08   system that includes that support that [TS]

00:30:09   the apple just added in practice yes but [TS]

00:30:12   the amount of time i have to wait isn't [TS]

00:30:14   that much especially for podcast [TS]

00:30:17   listeners to a tech show like that [TS]

00:30:18   that's a pretty it's a pretty upgrad [TS]

00:30:21   group like the it's I we don't have to [TS]

00:30:24   wait that long [TS]

00:30:25   it even on the mac like I is probably [TS]

00:30:27   like their upgrade curves pretty good [TS]

00:30:29   but the mac upgrade girls has not been [TS]

00:30:30   great like you're a year and be like [TS]

00:30:32   fifty percent adoption which is better [TS]

00:30:33   than windows but still [TS]

00:30:35   for people who would see it again like I [TS]

00:30:38   don't have to worry about using my app I [TS]

00:30:40   control my app I can update my app I [TS]

00:30:42   have to worry about people who are going [TS]

00:30:43   to see the share links you know right [TS]

00:30:45   now the showings don't have big [TS]

00:30:46   audiences that they they get you some [TS]

00:30:48   and some people see them and that's [TS]

00:30:50   great i want to make them bigger because [TS]

00:30:52   I think podcast sharing could use help [TS]

00:30:53   and you know I mean everybody in [TS]

00:30:55   podcasting things pocket sharing can use [TS]

00:30:56   help but like I Here I am I actually [TS]

00:30:58   like I actually have something that does [TS]

00:31:00   help and I want I want to get bigger and [TS]

00:31:02   better but the reality is even if you [TS]

00:31:05   know if Apple had support suppose it [TS]

00:31:07   makes it into the next major versions of [TS]

00:31:08   OS x and iOS whatever you know not the [TS]

00:31:10   ones coming out in a few weeks whatever [TS]

00:31:12   but you know next year or in the spring [TS]

00:31:14   or whatever else it will probably be [TS]

00:31:15   about a year after that before i can [TS]

00:31:19   reliably use it because at that point [TS]

00:31:21   you know it's gonna be way more than [TS]

00:31:23   half because first of all like the [TS]

00:31:25   people who are seeing share links from [TS]

00:31:28   social media are going to be way more [TS]

00:31:30   likely be on mobile than on a desktop so [TS]

00:31:32   the slower adoption curve on Mac OS is [TS]

00:31:35   not going to be as big of a problem is [TS]

00:31:36   going to be offset by the large [TS]

00:31:38   proportion of those viewers who are [TS]

00:31:40   going to be on ir on iOS and and you [TS]

00:31:43   know android if if anybody can tolerate [TS]

00:31:45   me who's using android which is big a [TS]

00:31:47   big ask [TS]

00:31:49   so you know I think iOS is I was we [TS]

00:31:52   updated faster especially as Apple has [TS]

00:31:54   figured out how to make people upgrade [TS]

00:31:55   by adding emoji and messages tricks so [TS]

00:31:58   again like I think give it a year after [TS]

00:32:01   they add support and i think almost [TS]

00:32:04   anybody can responsibly do this and it [TS]

00:32:06   would be fine podcast listening if [TS]

00:32:09   anybody doesn't know Rob walks the CEO [TS]

00:32:12   of libsyn look listen as a massive [TS]

00:32:14   podcast host that they've been around [TS]

00:32:16   forever and they host a ton of podcast [TS]

00:32:19   including this one and if you listen to [TS]

00:32:21   this [TS]

00:32:22   they probably host a lot of other [TS]

00:32:23   podcast you listen to i'm pretty sure [TS]

00:32:25   all the really FM shows are hosted their [TS]

00:32:27   it so it's a very big podcast host and [TS]

00:32:31   they do a podcast forget what it's [TS]

00:32:35   called [TS]

00:32:36   I'll put in the show notes they do a [TS]

00:32:38   podcast where it's like tips for [TS]

00:32:40   podcasters and then something like once [TS]

00:32:42   a month the CEO of listen goes on there [TS]

00:32:44   and give stats of like podcast user [TS]

00:32:48   agents like what clients what platforms [TS]

00:32:50   are downloading podcasts and listen is a [TS]

00:32:52   pretty good source of this because they [TS]

00:32:55   host so many podcasts across so many [TS]

00:32:57   markets that isn't just like technically [TS]

00:32:59   any sense i can give you on like how [TS]

00:33:01   people use overcast is like how Apple [TS]

00:33:04   nerds who know who I am mostly use [TS]

00:33:06   overcast like the top podcast and [TS]

00:33:08   overcast are mostly text shows they're [TS]

00:33:10   not dead but if you look at the top [TS]

00:33:11   podcast in the world is mostly not text [TS]

00:33:14   shows so obviously overcast you so just [TS]

00:33:16   not representative of all podcasters out [TS]

00:33:18   there but listen stats are really close [TS]

00:33:21   I think I i would say listen stats are [TS]

00:33:23   probably the best representation we have [TS]

00:33:24   outside of apple and there are talking [TS]

00:33:26   of like you know how podcasters behave [TS]

00:33:29   in mass what the overall market looks [TS]

00:33:31   like and the stats they give I listen [TS]

00:33:35   and take notes every month and so he'll [TS]

00:33:38   make a split up here so the most recent [TS]

00:33:40   ones except for june seventy-seven [TS]

00:33:42   percent of listens on mobile devices and [TS]

00:33:45   every month that number increases so [TS]

00:33:48   already very mobile heavy iOS to Android [TS]

00:33:51   is a little little over three two one [TS]

00:33:53   and that that reaches going down and [TS]

00:33:55   read is becoming more popular now [TS]

00:33:57   because people are finally building in [TS]

00:33:59   like android vendors like Samsung [TS]

00:34:01   finally building in podcast clients that [TS]

00:34:03   they weren't for a long time and so [TS]

00:34:05   that's that's adding a lot to the [TS]

00:34:06   Android side but so basically but you [TS]

00:34:09   still have liked more than three times [TS]

00:34:11   as many people listening iOS and Android [TS]

00:34:14   and and only like twenty two percent of [TS]

00:34:18   listeners listening on computers so this [TS]

00:34:21   is a very mobile heavy market and a very [TS]

00:34:23   iOS heavy market so that's why I think [TS]

00:34:26   it's fairly responsible for a lot of [TS]

00:34:29   podcasters especially if you are in like [TS]

00:34:31   the apple tech world like we are we are [TS]

00:34:33   audience is going to be even more skewed [TS]

00:34:35   towards recent apple platforms i think [TS]

00:34:38   one year after that support to this it's [TS]

00:34:40   totally safe to do and I might even do [TS]

00:34:42   it sooner that you feel optimistic about [TS]

00:34:45   them actually adding support or do you [TS]

00:34:46   feel like it's going to be two years [TS]

00:34:47   before this bug is closed as behaves [TS]

00:34:49   correctly [TS]

00:34:50   when I filed this bug in my bug reporter [TS]

00:34:54   it was next to two other bugs that have [TS]

00:34:57   been open forever my i'm lucky if i get [TS]

00:35:01   a response that I don't find that many [TS]

00:35:03   bugs with apple because the the the [TS]

00:35:06   effort on my side to feedback and [TS]

00:35:10   potential benefit i will get from that [TS]

00:35:11   ratio is so terrible like that you know [TS]

00:35:14   this took the better part of two days to [TS]

00:35:16   do things to do research properly to [TS]

00:35:18   like figure out that Apple didn't even [TS]

00:35:19   support these tags at all you know I [TS]

00:35:21   thought they were supporting least the [TS]

00:35:22   crappy one they supported none of them [TS]

00:35:23   to anyone to to modify my these test [TS]

00:35:27   files to like you know right these tags [TS]

00:35:28   properly everything took a lot of work [TS]

00:35:30   to write a big turtle bug report it give [TS]

00:35:32   proper test coverage and everything it [TS]

00:35:34   takes a lot of time a lot of work and [TS]

00:35:36   usually I file bugs and they go nowhere [TS]

00:35:39   if i'm lucky they might be closed as a [TS]

00:35:42   duplicate and when they're closed a [TS]

00:35:44   duplicate I believe I then lose any [TS]

00:35:46   visibility on that I forget what the [TS]

00:35:49   Destiny change the reason anyway so the [TS]

00:35:52   feedback loop is terrible for filing [TS]

00:35:54   bugs for Apple I you know people who [TS]

00:35:56   people who do it are good people they [TS]

00:35:58   probably floss you know that they're [TS]

00:36:00   probably very good people [TS]

00:36:01   I i have a hard time doing it most of [TS]

00:36:04   the time because again like I i see what [TS]

00:36:06   happens with the few but i do file and [TS]

00:36:08   they just they sit around forever and [TS]

00:36:10   they don't even get close [TS]

00:36:11   it's not it and and the few that do that [TS]

00:36:13   closed are often closed in a way that i [TS]

00:36:16   consider invalid like you know that [TS]

00:36:20   those they'll be still do something like [TS]

00:36:21   wearing clothes unless you tell us you [TS]

00:36:24   know really soon that this is still [TS]

00:36:25   happening on the news built of iOS four [TS]

00:36:27   a bug that I filed like you know six [TS]

00:36:29   months ago that is easily testable like [TS]

00:36:30   that they they clearly have a wide [TS]

00:36:34   variety of quality of people who go [TS]

00:36:36   through the bug reports and many of them [TS]

00:36:38   clearly just want to close as many as [TS]

00:36:40   possible that actually do any work like [TS]

00:36:41   the incentives are wrong there are you [TS]

00:36:43   saying you don't floss [TS]

00:36:45   so anyway uh I using file bugs because [TS]

00:36:50   I've had a very I've had a poor history [TS]

00:36:52   of of any response from apple on bugs [TS]

00:36:55   but this time i find it because i [TS]

00:36:56   figured basically nothing else I can do [TS]

00:36:58   I can't work around this like I i [TS]

00:37:00   mentioned the JavaScript and I tried [TS]

00:37:02   doing the javascript thing but you know [TS]

00:37:03   cause of all the cores restrictions it [TS]

00:37:05   and it makes it pretty much impossible [TS]

00:37:07   to use for an arbitrary set of hosts [TS]

00:37:11   that you don't control most of which [TS]

00:37:12   don't send course permission headers [TS]

00:37:14   already so that's a non-starter [TS]

00:37:18   you know i could write my own decoder in [TS]

00:37:20   my app that can calculate these offsets [TS]

00:37:22   but that's only one app and so for [TS]

00:37:25   something to make something like even [TS]

00:37:26   even our podcast that you would think [TS]

00:37:29   you know what percentage of people who [TS]

00:37:31   download our podcast you can listen and [TS]

00:37:33   overcast and a lot of people would [TS]

00:37:35   probably guess it's a pretty high ratio [TS]

00:37:36   and it is compared to overcast global [TS]

00:37:38   ratio I haven't looked recently but i [TS]

00:37:40   think it's something like sixty percent [TS]

00:37:41   that's still forty percent of our [TS]

00:37:43   listeners who don't listen overcast who [TS]

00:37:46   wouldn't have who would need [TS]

00:37:47   compatibility in this way you know for [TS]

00:37:49   for seeking and streams i basically the [TS]

00:37:52   reason find this bug is that it's my [TS]

00:37:53   last hope to get BTR mp3's to be a thing [TS]

00:37:55   I think that'd be great if they were [TS]

00:37:57   thing I think it's ridiculous that they [TS]

00:37:58   aren't of thing yet but if there's any [TS]

00:38:00   hope of them being a thing it's [TS]

00:38:02   basically on Apple to do because if [TS]

00:38:05   apple doesn't do it nobody else can and [TS]

00:38:06   nobody else will [TS]

00:38:08   did you make a strong recommendation of [TS]

00:38:09   implement a specific one of these [TS]

00:38:11   because I if you just said oh here all [TS]

00:38:12   these things you don't support i can [TS]

00:38:13   imagine i'm supporting like that [TS]

00:38:15   terrible one that only it gives you a [TS]

00:38:16   hundred points and then being like done [TS]

00:38:18   closed fixed [TS]

00:38:19   yeah you know that my report actually [TS]

00:38:21   reads a lot like the blog post i wrote [TS]

00:38:22   the book report first and edit to be a [TS]

00:38:24   blog post but basically it's it's a you [TS]

00:38:27   know similar format and I I recommended [TS]

00:38:30   you know I i gave three options and I [TS]

00:38:32   said you know you don't post any of [TS]

00:38:34   these right now this old one is not is [TS]

00:38:35   not precise enough don't use this time I [TS]

00:38:37   and so I said basically the MLT tag will [TS]

00:38:40   be the ideal one to do because it can be [TS]

00:38:42   arbitrary length arbitrary-precision so [TS]

00:38:45   that's the ideal one if you only pick [TS]

00:38:47   one pick that one [TS]

00:38:48   the farm for bri tag that's like 1.3 [TS]

00:38:52   kilobytes worth of stuff like that's a [TS]

00:38:53   good second choice like if you if you do [TS]

00:38:55   that i'll be happy but the best one to [TS]

00:38:57   do will be the MLT tag [TS]

00:38:59   I wonder if they don't support it not [TS]

00:39:01   out of laziness because like you said [TS]

00:39:02   they are actually parsing the durations [TS]

00:39:04   out of them but for kind of for the same [TS]

00:39:05   reason related to something else set [TS]

00:39:07   another why why webhost can't trust [TS]

00:39:09   x-forwarded-for maybe they're afraid is [TS]

00:39:11   going to people with garbage data and [TS]

00:39:13   then they're afraid all I can expose [TS]

00:39:14   you know exploits in there like a buffer [TS]

00:39:17   of lower something because they put [TS]

00:39:18   crazy offsets in there and then trigger [TS]

00:39:20   but who knows i don't know that type of [TS]

00:39:22   thing where it is or they just don't [TS]

00:39:24   trust the the encoders to put good data [TS]

00:39:26   in there they don't want to try to read [TS]

00:39:27   garbage data these are solvable problems [TS]

00:39:30   like you know make your your thing not [TS]

00:39:31   have silly buffer overflows and sanity [TS]

00:39:35   check the the offsets in the map and [TS]

00:39:37   make sure they seem reasonable before [TS]

00:39:39   blindly following may be disregarded it [TS]

00:39:42   looks like line noise but I do wonder if [TS]

00:39:45   someone did have to write the code pull [TS]

00:39:46   these durations out of there [TS]

00:39:47   why do they do that and like while I'm [TS]

00:39:49   in there why don't just actually parse [TS]

00:39:50   this whole format and just implemented [TS]

00:39:53   you know so I mean your concerns are [TS]

00:39:55   that are totally valid and I can I can I [TS]

00:39:56   can completely understand how like it [TS]

00:39:59   wouldn't surprise me at all if if there [TS]

00:40:01   was an engineering meeting at Apple some [TS]

00:40:03   ridiculous amount of time ago like [TS]

00:40:04   somebody was like yeah you know what we [TS]

00:40:06   we could parse these things out but the [TS]

00:40:09   data might be wrong and if we just do [TS]

00:40:11   this like you know percentage of time to [TS]

00:40:13   byte offset thing that we kind of like [TS]

00:40:15   an approximation like that'll be close [TS]

00:40:18   enough and it will be consistent and so [TS]

00:40:21   if there is you know there's a school of [TS]

00:40:23   thought that says like you should know [TS]

00:40:24   you you should override the the stupid [TS]

00:40:26   mp3 encoder because who knows what [TS]

00:40:28   garbage and you're gonna get there and [TS]

00:40:29   you could just do your thing but and and [TS]

00:40:32   you know just make it so that it works [TS]

00:40:33   it works its kind of clothes for short [TS]

00:40:35   songs and then it doesn't matter anymore [TS]

00:40:38   that's good enough for scrubber work [TS]

00:40:40   like that they want the scrubber like [TS]

00:40:41   when you're removing scar around anyway [TS]

00:40:43   it's probably like an inch on some [TS]

00:40:44   webpages you can't tell if it's like [TS]

00:40:46   what pixels on forever but for your [TS]

00:40:47   specific use case which is no no I'm not [TS]

00:40:49   had someone's not dragging the scrubber [TS]

00:40:51   here i'm putting it off set in the URL [TS]

00:40:52   down to the second i want that precision [TS]

00:40:54   out of it [TS]

00:40:55   hey YouTube does it you should do it too [TS]

00:40:57   exactly yeah like so you know that there [TS]

00:41:00   is an argument to be made there but you [TS]

00:41:02   know a they're already reading the [TS]

00:41:04   duration of these tax even if they have [TS]

00:41:06   the whole file they still read the [TS]

00:41:08   duration from that header and so if you [TS]

00:41:09   put garbage generation as it did during [TS]

00:41:11   testing it says alright yeah sure this [TS]

00:41:12   file isn't you know nine minutes long as [TS]

00:41:14   that of an hour like it's happy to use [TS]

00:41:16   that value so it's already trusting it [TS]

00:41:18   on some level also like mp3 encoder [TS]

00:41:21   don't change that much like they it's [TS]

00:41:23   there's very few that are actually in [TS]

00:41:24   active use today and they all right good [TS]

00:41:27   data like this isn't nice [TS]

00:41:28   b7 anymore like we we have solved the [TS]

00:41:30   mp3 encoder problem mp3 encoder is work [TS]

00:41:33   and they work well and there are next no [TS]

00:41:35   one else besides me is going on with a [TS]

00:41:38   hex editor messing with these values [TS]

00:41:39   like that here I can't like total [TS]

00:41:41   garbage on a regular basis so I i think [TS]

00:41:45   what's what's more likely to have [TS]

00:41:47   happened is that maybe these decoders [TS]

00:41:49   were written a very long time ago maybe [TS]

00:41:51   around that time frame when the world of [TS]

00:41:53   mp3 was still very much in flux and you [TS]

00:41:55   had crappy encoders in like the late [TS]

00:41:58   nineties and maybe they just haven't [TS]

00:41:59   revisited since then because there [TS]

00:42:01   wasn't a reason to that is the move that [TS]

00:42:03   is the way more likely explanation for [TS]

00:42:04   this is like this is very old code that [TS]

00:42:07   no one had any justification of touch [TS]

00:42:08   for a long time it works it well enough [TS]

00:42:10   so fine and that's why I think [TS]

00:42:13   ultimately it probably won't get done [TS]

00:42:15   because I would be surprised if anybody [TS]

00:42:17   was really motivated to devote you know [TS]

00:42:20   a limited people have limited time so [TS]

00:42:23   who's going to devote time to this out [TS]

00:42:25   of there like engineering time budget [TS]

00:42:27   inside Apple when they might have more [TS]

00:42:30   pressing things to worry about with like [TS]

00:42:31   supporting the new bluetooth headphones [TS]

00:42:33   the next iphone you know I think that if [TS]

00:42:35   anything else baby somebody working on [TS]

00:42:37   is probably more important than this to [TS]

00:42:39   apples overall corporate goals and SP [TS]

00:42:42   just supposed to be an AAC anyway it's [TS]

00:42:44   the future just use a different standard [TS]

00:42:45   format and those uh the the offset [TS]

00:42:48   things that can be all the front of the [TS]

00:42:49   file [TS]

00:42:50   yeah I love that magnetars thread that [TS]

00:42:54   just use a different format does not [TS]

00:42:56   solve all your problems that you know is [TS]

00:42:58   the best yeah all things you think you [TS]

00:43:00   can for example doesn't get your own [TS]

00:43:01   doesn't solve all your problems and then [TS]

00:43:03   I guess make every encoder on the planet [TS]

00:43:05   understand your new container format [TS]

00:43:06   will be fine [TS]

00:43:07   yeah this has been a lot of time on this [TS]

00:43:09   topic I'm sorry to everybody who doesn't [TS]

00:43:11   care [TS]

00:43:11   you probably not long ago but we [TS]

00:43:14   actually got a decent response on other [TS]

00:43:15   people actually enjoy hearing hearing [TS]

00:43:17   about all this crap I'm very surprised [TS]

00:43:18   by that actually but i guess our [TS]

00:43:20   listeners are are both cooler and [TS]

00:43:22   geekier than I then I would have assumed [TS]

00:43:24   they were definitely cooler here i'm not [TS]

00:43:28   sure we also sponsor this week by [TS]

00:43:31   tracker tracker makes losing things a [TS]

00:43:34   thing of the past go to the tracker com [TS]

00:43:36   right now that the tracker com enter [TS]

00:43:38   promo code ATP for thirty percent off [TS]

00:43:40   your entire order now [TS]

00:43:42   packers a coin-sized device that locates [TS]

00:43:44   misplaced keys wallets bad computers [TS]

00:43:47   anything you want it's a little thing [TS]

00:43:48   you attached to anything in seconds use [TS]

00:43:50   pear tracker to your phone and you [TS]

00:43:53   attach anything I communicate over [TS]

00:43:54   bluetooth and you can find precise [TS]

00:43:56   location with a tap of a button so [TS]

00:43:58   here's how this works [TS]

00:43:59   the tractor itself is quite shipping it [TS]

00:44:00   is it has on it a button and so when you [TS]

00:44:03   push that button you can locate your [TS]

00:44:06   phone so it works that direction [TS]

00:44:08   you can also launch the app on your [TS]

00:44:10   phone to locate whatever you have [TS]

00:44:12   attached the tracker too so it's great [TS]

00:44:15   for anything you lose your keys it's [TS]

00:44:17   your keys or a big one obviously you [TS]

00:44:18   know your backpack maybe like your purse [TS]

00:44:21   bags computers whatever else things you [TS]

00:44:23   have to find an object you have to find [TS]

00:44:25   in in your home or are around around the [TS]

00:44:27   workplace whatever else attached tracker [TS]

00:44:29   to it you can find it very very easily [TS]

00:44:30   with your phone you can also have said [TS]

00:44:32   use a tracker in Reverse push the button [TS]

00:44:34   trackr and your phone makes a beep sound [TS]

00:44:36   even if the speaker is switched to [TS]

00:44:39   silent mode so pretty great with over [TS]

00:44:41   1.5 million devices tracker has the [TS]

00:44:43   largest crowd gps network in the world [TS]

00:44:45   you're lost item actually shows up on a [TS]

00:44:47   map even miles away [TS]

00:44:49   never lose anything again with trackir [TS]

00:44:51   listeners of our show getting special [TS]

00:44:53   just kind of thirty percent off their [TS]

00:44:54   entire order go to the that's th e [TS]

00:44:57   tracker dot com the tracker com enter [TS]

00:45:01   promo code ATP the hardest thing you'll [TS]

00:45:03   ever find is the website then you'll be [TS]

00:45:05   done the tracker com / ATP for thirty [TS]

00:45:08   percent off your entire order thanks a [TS]

00:45:10   lot to track for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:45:15   so John if the cell signal at your house [TS]

00:45:17   is so crappy why not and why not enable [TS]

00:45:19   Wi-Fi calling and solve all your [TS]

00:45:21   problems [TS]

00:45:21   the first reason I didn't enable this is [TS]

00:45:23   I didn't think my carrier supported it [TS]

00:45:25   but I was just looking at the wrong [TS]

00:45:26   place in settings for some reason I had [TS]

00:45:28   in my head that just ended only a tease [TS]

00:45:30   apart this is not verizon but not [TS]

00:45:32   verizon sports too [TS]

00:45:33   of course I've never gotten where the [TS]

00:45:34   setting is but anyway it's in there [TS]

00:45:35   somewhere you can find it but the second [TS]

00:45:39   thing is when I turned it on and like [TS]

00:45:40   okay alternate wanna give it a try it [TS]

00:45:43   makes you enter your physical address [TS]

00:45:45   because once you're on Wi-Fi calling if [TS]

00:45:48   you call 911 911 can immediately tell [TS]

00:45:50   where you are because you're you're [TS]

00:45:52   coming from the internet [TS]

00:45:53   essentially they can get a location for [TS]

00:45:55   you which is kinda weird because you can [TS]

00:45:57   get locations from Wi-Fi base station [TS]

00:45:59   and everything a lot of things use a and [TS]

00:46:01   use those that big map of base station [TS]

00:46:04   mac addresses physical locations and [TS]

00:46:05   stuff to help a location awareness but [TS]

00:46:08   anyway does what iOS says please enter a [TS]

00:46:11   physical location so when you call 911 [TS]

00:46:13   if you can't if you're too injured to [TS]

00:46:15   speak into the phone or whatever [TS]

00:46:17   don't worry about that will come to this [TS]

00:46:18   address but of course that means that if [TS]

00:46:21   you go someplace else and you're on [TS]

00:46:23   Wi-Fi so you're working your own Wi-Fi [TS]

00:46:25   and you call 911 and don't get a chance [TS]

00:46:27   to tell them where you are they gonna go [TS]

00:46:28   to your house [TS]

00:46:29   that's my understanding anyway of what [TS]

00:46:31   this message telling me after this [TS]

00:46:32   address here if you call 911 this is [TS]

00:46:34   where people go to but I didn't enable [TS]

00:46:37   it because I'm like well then i have to [TS]

00:46:40   remember to turn off Wi-Fi calling when [TS]

00:46:42   i leave my house because then if i call [TS]

00:46:45   911 people go to my house instead of [TS]

00:46:46   where I am so that's one reason why i [TS]

00:46:50   didn't believe in on the second reason [TS]

00:46:51   is this is the stupidest reason that the [TS]

00:46:54   reason i think is only vaguely so I but [TS]

00:46:56   this reason is really done but [TS]

00:46:58   nevertheless is a reason everyone has [TS]

00:47:00   their reasons this is mine [TS]

00:47:01   it changes the thing that appears in the [TS]

00:47:03   status bar to make some ugly thing that [TS]

00:47:05   says like VZW whatever it doesn't say [TS]

00:47:08   like the horizon [TS]

00:47:10   fit Wi-Fi fan symbol it says different [TS]

00:47:12   words like in all caps and looks away i [TS]

00:47:14   don't like it that's a reason like I can [TS]

00:47:18   understand even though i think it's a [TS]

00:47:19   little ridiculous the whole address [TS]

00:47:21   thing fine whatever but because you [TS]

00:47:24   don't want to look at VZW in your status [TS]

00:47:27   bar that's your reason you you try to [TS]

00:47:29   turn it on and see what it does to your [TS]

00:47:30   status bar i use AT&T like a gentleman [TS]

00:47:33   and so it says AT&T Wi-Fi but it gets [TS]

00:47:35   rid of the fan thing isn't it or maybe [TS]

00:47:36   know anyway it changes what's the status [TS]

00:47:38   bar I didn't like it [TS]

00:47:39   location 1 is that is the larger reason [TS]

00:47:42   but I was kind of glad that I had a [TS]

00:47:44   legit reason why did it look at that I [TS]

00:47:45   could status bar anymore [TS]

00:47:47   it would be nice if like I was intense [TS]

00:47:48   movie would be and is enhancing would be [TS]

00:47:50   only used Wi-Fi calling when connected [TS]

00:47:52   to this base station i would like that [TS]

00:47:54   setting don't mean because then I could [TS]

00:47:56   say use Wi-Fi calling when connected to [TS]

00:47:57   my home base station but never anyplace [TS]

00:47:59   else and they don't have to worry about [TS]

00:48:00   this then i get my home address to my [TS]

00:48:02   home base station but no and anyway [TS]

00:48:04   after I made the decision I made a [TS]

00:48:07   couple of successful voice coil calls [TS]

00:48:09   from my house where people could [TS]

00:48:10   actually hear my voice so maybe a [TS]

00:48:12   verizon loves me for coming back to them [TS]

00:48:15   and not using this filthy Internet [TS]

00:48:16   calling ok alright well I don't even [TS]

00:48:22   know what to make of that that he asked [TS]

00:48:24   that's moving on Graham Spencer's as [TS]

00:48:29   indicated that Google and Facebook and [TS]

00:48:31   others also do a charity match on bug [TS]

00:48:33   bounties so just FYI and did it before [TS]

00:48:37   Apple like it [TS]

00:48:38   most people didn't write into a to gloat [TS]

00:48:40   about how all these other companies that [TS]

00:48:42   have been horrible but they totally did [TS]

00:48:43   anybody actually topics tonight or is [TS]

00:48:47   this all follow-up we're getting there [TS]

00:48:49   that there's topics down there believe [TS]

00:48:50   me don't worry we gotta bring another [TS]

00:48:52   podcast like two days I don't know that [TS]

00:48:54   that's true to its somebody had to go [TS]

00:48:56   all deep on the mp3 stuff but actually [TS]

00:48:58   it's very entertaining and I enjoyed it [TS]

00:49:00   so I shouldn't give you a hard time any [TS]

00:49:02   imagine how much dead space we have and [TS]

00:49:04   it like the topic and everything this [TS]

00:49:05   week if I didn't do it [TS]

00:49:06   it's fair you don't know what's lurking [TS]

00:49:08   down there and topics there's all sorts [TS]

00:49:09   of stuff is there more about evil [TS]

00:49:11   yes there is actually really yes I'm so [TS]

00:49:14   excited [TS]

00:49:18   alright well hopefully will run long [TS]

00:49:20   enough that we won't get there I mean [TS]

00:49:21   anyway let me tell you about my imac [TS]

00:49:23   yeah it has it it has been rebooted I [TS]

00:49:27   did it on purpose [TS]

00:49:29   it ran 21 days on the stock ram without [TS]

00:49:33   a UPS and without a GPS I've gotten in [TS]

00:49:35   contact with max lwo dude [TS]

00:49:39   owc whatever they call themselves and [TS]

00:49:41   have requested and i'm told that I'm [TS]

00:49:44   receiving a RMA return merchandise [TS]

00:49:46   authorization so I think that stands for [TS]

00:49:48   you i think what they're doing is [TS]

00:49:50   sending me a box to send the ran back in [TS]

00:49:51   and they said they will replace it [TS]

00:49:52   posthaste [TS]

00:49:53   I have plugged into the UPS i have [TS]

00:49:57   pulled the UPS power and seen the imax [TS]

00:50:01   day on for at least long enough to make [TS]

00:50:03   me feel better about myself i did not [TS]

00:50:05   leave it disconnected long enough to see [TS]

00:50:08   whether or not the technology would be [TS]

00:50:10   smart enough to shut itself down but i [TS]

00:50:12   believe i have those settings squared [TS]

00:50:14   away in this technology so it should [TS]

00:50:15   shut itself down gracefully the imac [TS]

00:50:17   won't but you know I'm used to that this [TS]

00:50:19   point anyway hail so anyway I i am [TS]

00:50:23   running still on the eight gigs of stock [TS]

00:50:25   ram until I receive my new new batch of [TS]

00:50:29   owc ram i will try that if that doesn't [TS]

00:50:32   work then i will probably very politely [TS]

00:50:35   but very sternly ask for my money back [TS]

00:50:36   and get crucial ram which the entire [TS]

00:50:38   Internet has written to tell me is the [TS]

00:50:40   only ram i should ever really buy and so [TS]

00:50:42   I think crucial buyers any different ram [TS]

00:50:44   the notary set forget someone at one [TS]

00:50:46   point sent me a long email telling me [TS]

00:50:48   about the different bins of who buys the [TS]

00:50:50   good chips versus the cheaper chips and [TS]

00:50:51   I think Chris was in the same thing with [TS]

00:50:53   that bc but anyway I've bought OBC ran [TS]

00:50:55   for years and like i said i think the [TS]

00:50:57   last time i had owc thing go bad [TS]

00:51:00   the chip because my computer is ancient [TS]

00:51:01   the chip the the the ram the dam was [TS]

00:51:04   like four years old five years old maybe [TS]

00:51:07   was six years old like whatever it is I [TS]

00:51:09   just I just assume like well it's so old [TS]

00:51:11   whatever warranty or whatever they had [TS]

00:51:13   it must be completely gone by now but i [TS]

00:51:15   just called not acceptable son you know [TS]

00:51:17   that's it [TS]

00:51:17   like I don't know if they have like a [TS]

00:51:19   forever lifetime of this Ram everyone's [TS]

00:51:21   bad they'll just replace it forever and [TS]

00:51:22   ever and I know it's a hassle to return [TS]

00:51:23   if you have to keep returning it's a [TS]

00:51:25   pain but I've had them last for years [TS]

00:51:27   and years and then go bad years later [TS]

00:51:29   and then [TS]

00:51:29   send me a new one it's things like [TS]

00:51:31   miraculously like try doing that with [TS]

00:51:34   the hard drive for example him a hard [TS]

00:51:35   drive died after six years can I get a [TS]

00:51:37   new one haha nothing like almost all ram [TS]

00:51:40   has a lifetime guarantee like almost all [TS]

00:51:42   around that you would buy separately [TS]

00:51:43   from computer like yourself [TS]

00:51:44   they almost all have lifetime guarantees [TS]

00:51:46   but it's you know it's up to the [TS]

00:51:48   retailer or the manufacturer to make [TS]

00:51:50   that a good or bad experience if you [TS]

00:51:52   actually have to clean it and I too have [TS]

00:51:54   had only good experiences with obviously [TS]

00:51:57   rama i don't use anymore now I just by [TS]

00:51:59   my computer with my friend from apple [TS]

00:52:00   because I'd rather not deal with anymore [TS]

00:52:01   and the odbc ram when i was using it [TS]

00:52:05   because up until like two years ago was [TS]

00:52:07   always great i had to I had to return it [TS]

00:52:09   one time and that was you know one time [TS]

00:52:12   in something like eight years of using [TS]

00:52:14   it i think it's pretty good yeah and I [TS]

00:52:17   mean they've been really good about it [TS]

00:52:18   so far I didn't expressly reach out to [TS]

00:52:20   them they reached out to me at twitter [TS]

00:52:21   i'm not entirely clear how they caught [TS]

00:52:23   wind of the fact that I was having [TS]

00:52:24   issues but they just basically said hey [TS]

00:52:27   can you send us an email and we'll talk [TS]

00:52:29   about it and I said hey here's the [TS]

00:52:31   situation and I spelled it out and said [TS]

00:52:35   you know it did it had been rebooting [TS]

00:52:36   every week look at this it's now running [TS]

00:52:38   for 20-some days at this point I feel [TS]

00:52:41   like it's the ram so they said yeah [TS]

00:52:44   you're probably right i will get you in [TS]

00:52:47   RNA and we will replace it immediately [TS]

00:52:49   I don't know how they heard about this I [TS]

00:52:51   just I just told 80,000 people about it [TS]

00:52:53   for a month and somebody told them well [TS]

00:52:56   but what I mean is I don't recall having [TS]

00:52:58   seen anyone like mention me and them on [TS]

00:53:01   Twitter maybe that did happen i just [TS]

00:53:03   missed it but it seemed like they came [TS]

00:53:06   out of the woodwork as opposed to [TS]

00:53:08   somebody tagging them to to kind of wave [TS]

00:53:10   the flag in their face and say hey [TS]

00:53:11   should pay attention over here so i'm [TS]

00:53:13   not sure how that came to be but you [TS]

00:53:15   know hey I'm happy that they reached out [TS]

00:53:17   i'm happy that they seem to be more than [TS]

00:53:20   happy to replace the ram because I mean [TS]

00:53:22   like you were saying earlier i bought [TS]

00:53:24   this room in january i looked up my [TS]

00:53:26   order number and i forget when I was in [TS]

00:53:27   January but it's still january i mean [TS]

00:53:29   that was somewhat long ago and I guess [TS]

00:53:32   you know most things have a year [TS]

00:53:33   warranty but I don't know it it it's [TS]

00:53:36   nice of them to not fight me on it [TS]

00:53:38   because I'm used to most retailers being [TS]

00:53:40   like well are you sure it's the rain [TS]

00:53:43   manish take it to apple for stats etc [TS]

00:53:45   and they were like no no send it back [TS]

00:53:47   we'll get your ram so I said you didn't [TS]

00:53:49   have to wait for someone to hear it into [TS]

00:53:51   it you could have just called them on [TS]

00:53:52   the phone all you gotta do is tell them [TS]

00:53:53   you have bad ram and just like last time [TS]

00:53:55   I call from like I said it was years [TS]

00:53:56   after i bought it i said i've got a bad [TS]

00:53:59   dream it's okay read the serial number [TS]

00:54:00   ok we'll send you a box like that was it [TS]

00:54:02   there was not even give them a reason it [TS]

00:54:04   was dead [TS]

00:54:05   yeah and i truly hand on heart was [TS]

00:54:06   planning on calling sometime this week [TS]

00:54:08   and then right as i decided no it's been [TS]

00:54:11   long enough i'm happy while not happy [TS]

00:54:13   that i am satisfied with my my [TS]

00:54:15   scientific experiment that around that [TS]

00:54:18   time when I'd finally concluded that was [TS]

00:54:19   the case that's when they reached out [TS]

00:54:21   were like hey what's happening so that [TS]

00:54:23   was my plan [TS]

00:54:24   Marco I am deeply sorry but I have to [TS]

00:54:28   ask john tell me about tivo lifetime [TS]

00:54:30   service please respond to this week by [TS]

00:54:34   automatic the small adapter that turns [TS]

00:54:36   your clunker into a smarter connected [TS]

00:54:37   car go to automatic calm / ATP for more [TS]

00:54:40   info [TS]

00:54:41   automatic has just launched the [TS]

00:54:42   automatic pro their new unlimited 3g car [TS]

00:54:46   adapter with no monthly fees and no [TS]

00:54:48   subscription no service charges you just [TS]

00:54:50   pay once up front for the automatic pro [TS]

00:54:52   and you don't pay anything per month to [TS]

00:54:55   use their services and their abilities [TS]

00:54:56   now the automatic pro includes always [TS]

00:54:59   their 3g connectivity to let you know [TS]

00:55:02   where your vehicle is parked at any time [TS]

00:55:04   and let you track your vehicle in case [TS]

00:55:06   of theft and of course is build on what [TS]

00:55:08   automatic has been doing for years [TS]

00:55:10   it works with if this then that for [TS]

00:55:11   endless customization taking your car [TS]

00:55:13   the rest of your life you can do things [TS]

00:55:15   like automatically turn on your nest [TS]

00:55:17   thermostats when you're nearing your [TS]

00:55:19   home and of course tons of other [TS]

00:55:21   abilities that you can do using it this [TS]

00:55:22   than that and the automatic API in [TS]

00:55:25   addition of course automatic provides [TS]

00:55:26   the built-in functions they always have [TS]

00:55:28   things like gas mileage tracking [TS]

00:55:30   reaching your goals 484 fuel economy [TS]

00:55:32   tracking your expenses for businesses so [TS]

00:55:35   think it image of apps such as [TS]

00:55:36   concurrent Expensify to be able to track [TS]

00:55:39   costs associated with your driving there [TS]

00:55:41   are so much you can do with automatic [TS]

00:55:43   and of course now with automatic pro it [TS]

00:55:45   has always on 3g connectivity which [TS]

00:55:47   makes so many of these things even [TS]

00:55:48   better and possible automatic can also [TS]

00:55:51   call for help in case of a crash it [TS]

00:55:53   detects severe accidents and if you [TS]

00:55:55   aren't able to respond [TS]

00:55:56   a train responder will call for help [TS]

00:55:58   because you can't no automatic is [TS]

00:56:00   normally a hundred and twenty nine [TS]

00:56:02   ninety five foot and use our exclusive [TS]

00:56:04   offer code ATP you'll save twenty bucks [TS]

00:56:06   so it makes it about a hundred and ten [TS]

00:56:07   dollars great deal [TS]

00:56:09   no monthly fees after that you again you [TS]

00:56:10   buy it up front and that's it you don't [TS]

00:56:12   pay per month to use these services to [TS]

00:56:14   go to automatic calm / ATP for more [TS]

00:56:17   information and use offer code ATP to [TS]

00:56:20   save twenty dollars off the regular [TS]

00:56:21   purchase price thanks a lot to automatic [TS]

00:56:24   the smart car adapter for sponsoring our [TS]

00:56:26   show once again [TS]

00:56:27   ah John go ahead and tell us about 20 [TS]

00:56:32   your saved by real-time follow-up [TS]

00:56:35   someone just tweeted at me that from the [TS]

00:56:38   verizon Wi-Fi calling fact when using [TS]

00:56:40   Wi-Fi calling 911 calls will always try [TS]

00:56:43   cellular service in the local market [TS]

00:56:44   first even when the device is an [TS]

00:56:46   airplane mode or cellular services off [TS]

00:56:48   so I don't know [TS]

00:56:50   now i'm back to just the status bar I [TS]

00:56:51   suppose which is a silly reason I'll [TS]

00:56:54   think about it i'll think about it i [TS]

00:56:56   don't like getting phone calls at home [TS]

00:56:57   anyway and i have lined up to take a [TS]

00:57:01   screenshot of that status bar we can [TS]

00:57:02   mark against which the show are to its [TS]

00:57:06   you can just see what a horrid actually [TS]

00:57:08   is alright tivo the news today about [TS]

00:57:11   tivo not really that big news but uh [TS]

00:57:14   apparently tivo is discontinuing a [TS]

00:57:17   service for the tivo series 10 series [TS]

00:57:21   one that was one introduced in 1999 and [TS]

00:57:26   what their what they mean by [TS]

00:57:27   discontinuing is it will no longer get [TS]

00:57:29   any guide updates or anything so you can [TS]

00:57:32   it'll you know you can still watch shows [TS]

00:57:34   that are recorded on it but you can't [TS]

00:57:35   recording new ones because I don't know [TS]

00:57:37   anything is on and it doesn't work like [TS]

00:57:39   a VCR we can do manually anyway and it's [TS]

00:57:43   because they're changing the format of [TS]

00:57:44   the guy data probably modernizing and in [TS]

00:57:46   some way that we would be horrified to [TS]

00:57:48   learn about if we knew exactly what they [TS]

00:57:50   were feeding because of these teams [TS]

00:57:52   here's one here's one was an analog [TS]

00:57:54   device that could have recorded video [TS]

00:57:56   from analog sources it didn't it was the [TS]

00:57:58   pre-digital and of course standard def [TS]

00:58:00   is all analog I didn't know that you [TS]

00:58:03   could still use achieve a serious one I [TS]

00:58:06   thought they were already non-functional [TS]

00:58:08   entirely [TS]

00:58:09   apparently can't get like semaphore [TS]

00:58:11   flags like how does that even work [TS]

00:58:13   if you have a TV series 1 and your [TS]

00:58:15   sixteen-year-old hard drive or maybe a [TS]

00:58:17   hard drive you replace it because you [TS]

00:58:18   into third party hard drive replacement [TS]

00:58:19   or whatever we're still using it to [TS]

00:58:21   recall to add to record an expander does [TS]

00:58:23   TV there terminating your service this [TS]

00:58:27   is even if you bought quote-unquote [TS]

00:58:28   lifetime service that's what the story [TS]

00:58:30   about this the trees like oh I want [TS]

00:58:31   lifetime service but now you know I'm [TS]

00:58:35   still alive and the box is still alive [TS]

00:58:37   but somehow the services ending so the [TS]

00:58:39   tweet was 20 series one lifetime and [TS]

00:58:41   scare quotes service last about 16 years [TS]

00:58:43   and for this inconvenience tivo is [TS]

00:58:46   offering your $75 prepaid Visa card so [TS]

00:58:49   you get 75 box of you if you held on and [TS]

00:58:51   kept using your turbo series 1 for this [TS]

00:58:52   long and I say there are 3500 of the [TS]

00:58:55   series one stone use which is a small [TS]

00:58:56   number but you know anyway I can't [TS]

00:59:00   believe that there wasn't some fine [TS]

00:59:02   print written to the lifetime service [TS]

00:59:03   that says after 16 years we reserve the [TS]

00:59:06   right to turn off the service maybe you [TS]

00:59:07   should buy a new DVR but I salute the [TS]

00:59:09   people are out there still using it [TS]

00:59:11   I never expected lifetime survive life [TS]

00:59:14   controls an almighty boxes but I [TS]

00:59:15   replaced the boxes long before i get to [TS]

00:59:17   the lifetime service thing we used to be [TS]

00:59:19   better i letting you transferred [TS]

00:59:20   lifetime service from some nominal fee [TS]

00:59:22   or free to another device to encourage [TS]

00:59:23   you to upgrade or whatever but those [TS]

00:59:25   days are mostly gone the deal something [TS]

00:59:27   getting worse [TS]

00:59:28   anyway I just thought this was funny [TS]

00:59:30   that they're actually while they're [TS]

00:59:31   still using it a series 1 DVR I don't [TS]

00:59:33   think I have any piece of electronics in [TS]

00:59:36   my house that is 16 years old and still [TS]

00:59:38   working including smoke detectors [TS]

00:59:40   telephones microwave maybe I think my as [TS]

00:59:45   discussed generation reconcile with [TS]

00:59:46   oversized microwave maybe more than 16 [TS]

00:59:48   years old but I should look at the date [TS]

00:59:50   on the back of I should see exactly how [TS]

00:59:51   old that it's better than that no DVR so [TS]

00:59:55   that's for sure [TS]

00:59:55   fair enough we had spoken a few episodes [TS]

00:59:59   ago [TS]

00:59:59   ago [TS]

01:00:00   though about Twitter verification [TS]

01:00:02   because all three of us and verified and [TS]

01:00:05   a friend of the show brand-new has been [TS]

01:00:08   verified now in the last week or so and [TS]

01:00:12   apparently it's made everything in men [TS]

01:00:15   sleep better [TS]

01:00:17   Brianna tweeted a couple days ago to [TS]

01:00:19   record this fact i have not seen a [TS]

01:00:21   single death threat or rape threats [TS]

01:00:22   since being verified and getting the [TS]

01:00:24   quote quality filter quote everyone [TS]

01:00:26   should have this funny how that works [TS]

01:00:29   yeah that's exactly what I mean like [TS]

01:00:31   like we we talked last time like I joked [TS]

01:00:33   like we have computers now like the any [TS]

01:00:35   could be any computational overhead of [TS]

01:00:36   offering this to everybody like the idea [TS]

01:00:38   that's totally worth it and we sense [TS]

01:00:41   heard a little bit more discussion from [TS]

01:00:42   various other places about it it seems [TS]

01:00:44   like the the gist of the problem here is [TS]

01:00:46   not that turn this on one be [TS]

01:00:48   computationally expensive for everybody [TS]

01:00:50   it's it's that Twitter it fundamentally [TS]

01:00:53   twitter is very very tied to the idea [TS]

01:00:57   internally politically that this should [TS]

01:01:00   be this kind of open platform and that [TS]

01:01:02   there should be no filters by default [TS]

01:01:04   and that's a really nice Theory so is [TS]

01:01:07   communism but in practice these things [TS]

01:01:09   don't look quite that well you know like [TS]

01:01:11   it is really ideal and that would be [TS]

01:01:13   nice and it worked that way for awhile [TS]

01:01:15   and that's cool but you know the reality [TS]

01:01:18   is the harassment problem is very big [TS]

01:01:20   and very real and that wonderful world [TS]

01:01:23   where anybody could be anybody in it and [TS]

01:01:25   they would see it by default i think [TS]

01:01:28   that's a nice idea like blog comments [TS]

01:01:30   like that's a nice idea but you know in [TS]

01:01:32   practice it doesn't work in practice [TS]

01:01:34   lots of problems with that so I maintain [TS]

01:01:37   that this should know that the the [TS]

01:01:40   quality filter feature that is available [TS]

01:01:42   to verify Twitter accounts not only [TS]

01:01:44   should be available to everybody but i'd [TS]

01:01:45   even say it should be on by default we [TS]

01:01:48   have not agree with that yeah I don't [TS]

01:01:50   know why you wouldn't have it on by [TS]

01:01:51   default i guess the idea that maybe the [TS]

01:01:53   filter is bad and things will [TS]

01:01:55   accidentally get filtered out but like [TS]

01:01:56   it's not like you [TS]

01:01:58   it's like gmail has spam filtering off [TS]

01:01:59   by default of course right yeah [TS]

01:02:01   sometimes things end up in your spam [TS]

01:02:04   folder when they shouldn't be in there [TS]

01:02:06   but like no one would say the correct [TS]

01:02:08   default is off [TS]

01:02:09   yeah I don't get it finally in follow-up [TS]

01:02:13   and over an hour in a few people have [TS]

01:02:17   taken to task for saying in the last [TS]

01:02:19   episode of me was one reason episodes [TS]

01:02:22   that I was not satisfied with apples [TS]

01:02:25   diversity numbers particularly with [TS]

01:02:27   ethnicities and and how many white [TS]

01:02:32   employees apple has as opposed to other [TS]

01:02:35   races and what I said was you know hey [TS]

01:02:38   this is really unfortunate or in and it [TS]

01:02:41   looks like as I look at these numbers [TS]

01:02:43   again fifty-six percent of apples white [TS]

01:02:45   as a self-report today and a lot of [TS]

01:02:47   people said in various degrees of [TS]

01:02:49   obnoxiousness what's the appropriate [TS]

01:02:51   amount of diversity because the country [TS]

01:02:52   is I don't have those numbers in front [TS]

01:02:54   of me but something like sixty or [TS]

01:02:56   seventy percent white so if they're less [TS]

01:02:59   white than America then what's the [TS]

01:03:02   problem and I don't have any simple [TS]

01:03:05   answer for that it's it's something I [TS]

01:03:07   hadn't considered and it is a fair point [TS]

01:03:08   but i would i would point out that not [TS]

01:03:12   all of apple's in America and so that [TS]

01:03:15   probably should be factored in as well [TS]

01:03:16   but i think the the biggest thing to me [TS]

01:03:21   was that Apple seems to have made not a [TS]

01:03:25   lot of change from just a couple of [TS]

01:03:27   years ago when they started reporting [TS]

01:03:29   this which I admire they didn't make [TS]

01:03:31   that much change yet it seems like the [TS]

01:03:35   thing that was completely unacceptable [TS]

01:03:37   couple a couple years ago is now look at [TS]

01:03:39   us and how wonderful we are and that [TS]

01:03:41   just seems kind of weird to me i don't [TS]

01:03:45   know if you guys had any thoughts on [TS]

01:03:46   this but that that's basically the thing [TS]

01:03:48   that I still stand by which is it hasn't [TS]

01:03:52   gotten that much better why are we [TS]

01:03:53   really celebrating it like it's [TS]

01:03:54   completely turned around so before we [TS]

01:03:57   let John tell us the truth and why this [TS]

01:03:58   is you know before the John basically [TS]

01:04:01   like rock this and and do everything [TS]

01:04:03   correctly i will just kind of speak for [TS]

01:04:05   for myself and for i think a lot of [TS]

01:04:07   people who listen to this kind of stuff [TS]

01:04:09   and you see these kind of things I know [TS]

01:04:12   that be having been just in the in the [TS]

01:04:15   area of people discussing this for a [TS]

01:04:17   while now I know now that it is like it [TS]

01:04:22   is [TS]

01:04:23   never that simple and so it like when [TS]

01:04:25   you when you throw a stat like well you [TS]

01:04:27   know America's x percent white and so [TS]

01:04:29   that's fine like it is usually not that [TS]

01:04:32   simple and so I know to keep my mouth [TS]

01:04:35   shut with things like that because I [TS]

01:04:37   know like I hear someone that I'd be [TS]

01:04:38   like yeah that might make logical sense [TS]

01:04:40   when you read it like 140 characters but [TS]

01:04:43   I bet there's more to the issue than [TS]

01:04:44   that and so it's important when you are [TS]

01:04:48   responding to people not UKC but youyou [TS]

01:04:50   the public and I'm talking myself to [TS]

01:04:52   like don't jump to a conclusion that [TS]

01:04:55   because chances are the issue is way [TS]

01:04:56   more complicated than that [TS]

01:04:58   so John tell us why I was gonna start [TS]

01:05:02   getting anything but i'm i'm basically [TS]

01:05:03   on what you just said that's a that's [TS]

01:05:06   something I always notice on Twitter [TS]

01:05:08   when we all notice that to some degree [TS]

01:05:09   or another whether we're doing it [TS]

01:05:11   ourselves we see other people doing it [TS]

01:05:12   where people will start from the premise [TS]

01:05:18   and then start throwing out facts and [TS]

01:05:19   support of that and it's fine right [TS]

01:05:22   because why wouldn't you you know you [TS]

01:05:24   this is what you think and so you will [TS]

01:05:26   find facts that support what you think [TS]

01:05:27   of when you will list those facts but so [TS]

01:05:30   is important to kind of ask yourself why [TS]

01:05:34   like why am i seeking out the fact that [TS]

01:05:37   i can find that align with this thing [TS]

01:05:39   that I already think like am I actually [TS]

01:05:41   thinking about the situation where I [TS]

01:05:43   merely just trying to find something [TS]

01:05:44   that was formerly so that maybe I mean [TS]

01:05:47   it's you know it's like university but [TS]

01:05:49   perhaps someone who was telling Casey [TS]

01:05:51   hey you you said this percentage is bad [TS]

01:05:53   but it's about the ratio of the you know [TS]

01:05:57   the people united states its you have to [TS]

01:05:59   go look up the ratio of the people [TS]

01:06:01   United States you could do is this a bad [TS]

01:06:02   example because they're probably [TS]

01:06:03   completely intellectually honest but a [TS]

01:06:04   lot of times it's easy to see an issue [TS]

01:06:05   come up and people immediately go [TS]

01:06:09   looking for something making throughout [TS]

01:06:11   that supports their thing never really [TS]

01:06:13   asking why am I so desperate to find [TS]

01:06:15   things to that support this rather than [TS]

01:06:17   you know looking at the looking at the [TS]

01:06:19   issue from first principles are [TS]

01:06:21   understanding that the wider context [TS]

01:06:22   because they'll always be things [TS]

01:06:23   especially you know statistics that can [TS]

01:06:25   help support one side of the other but [TS]

01:06:28   if you're only ever looking for and [TS]

01:06:29   saying repeatedly to anyone who mentions [TS]

01:06:30   anything about the topic [TS]

01:06:32   the few facts you have in your back [TS]

01:06:33   pocket that support the one thing that [TS]

01:06:35   you care about you probably are missing [TS]

01:06:37   the larger issue and what you really [TS]

01:06:38   missing more is why is it so important [TS]

01:06:40   to you that your current view of this [TS]

01:06:42   exactly correct [TS]

01:06:44   so anyway as for the specific stats i [TS]

01:06:47   don't know i thought the stats were just [TS]

01:06:49   us only so i think their percentages for [TS]

01:06:51   you know the white employees that are [TS]

01:06:53   actually accurate to the United States [TS]

01:06:56   the United States has that percentage of [TS]

01:06:57   the population and that's their you know [TS]

01:06:58   so i thought that was an apt comparison [TS]

01:07:00   but like Marco said it's never quite [TS]

01:07:02   that simple because you know especially [TS]

01:07:04   with statistics you can [TS]

01:07:06   they're taking like all their employees [TS]

01:07:07   right and all us employees Apple employs [TS]

01:07:11   a lot of people and are not all those [TS]

01:07:13   jobs are the same if you start looking [TS]

01:07:15   at different sections of employees the [TS]

01:07:17   percentages I think they do this don't [TS]

01:07:18   break it down the page and the the [TS]

01:07:20   percentages will change you know pretty [TS]

01:07:23   dramatically by five to ten percent [TS]

01:07:25   maybe even more if you look at like the [TS]

01:07:28   top level of the org chart [TS]

01:07:30   director-level c-level executives they [TS]

01:07:33   are not 56% white right so and then all [TS]

01:07:38   the way down to look at engineering vs [TS]

01:07:40   QA vs retail versus you know all the [TS]

01:07:42   different any other different [TS]

01:07:44   categorizations if you want them all [TS]

01:07:46   together it's nice to get a nice a great [TS]

01:07:47   but you don't know what the pieces are [TS]

01:07:48   right and so that that's not apples not [TS]

01:07:51   trying to mislead anybody there they're [TS]

01:07:53   not going to break down there they're [TS]

01:07:55   hiring in their employees by individual [TS]

01:07:57   job level and location and and what what [TS]

01:08:00   is the population in the state of [TS]

01:08:01   Maryland and one of the retail boys in [TS]

01:08:03   the state of Maryland and what about you [TS]

01:08:04   like it's just they're not going to do [TS]

01:08:06   that right but that is Apple's job [TS]

01:08:07   internally to work on this problem [TS]

01:08:10   because if their overall numbers [TS]

01:08:12   happened to work out to the same [TS]

01:08:14   percentage of the United States but it's [TS]

01:08:16   only because like all the leaders of the [TS]

01:08:18   company or white men and all the rest of [TS]

01:08:20   the company or not that's not that you [TS]

01:08:23   not achieving your goal of diversity [TS]

01:08:25   write your goal is not to make a bunch [TS]

01:08:26   of numbers match a bunch of the numbers [TS]

01:08:28   you can always pick numbers to make it [TS]

01:08:29   look better or worse and some degree [TS]

01:08:31   apple may be doing that in the [TS]

01:08:32   high-level numbers that are up there but [TS]

01:08:34   that's not the goal of the thing you [TS]

01:08:35   you're not Apple is not an amorphous [TS]

01:08:37   blob of people are combined into one [TS]

01:08:39   google person they're a bunch of [TS]

01:08:40   individual people and you want to know [TS]

01:08:43   if you know if I get a job at out [TS]

01:08:45   what are my chances of you know being in [TS]

01:08:48   charge of all software an apple [TS]

01:08:50   what are my chances of raising a rising [TS]

01:08:52   to the level of the org chart where I'm [TS]

01:08:53   taking meetings with the with tim cook [TS]

01:08:55   and stuff what you know what are my odds [TS]

01:08:57   of becoming a an engineering manager or [TS]

01:09:00   leading whatever and if you look around [TS]

01:09:01   you an apple and it's like gee everybody [TS]

01:09:02   who's engineering manager is a white [TS]

01:09:04   dude and everyone in the board meetings [TS]

01:09:07   as a white dude and everybody was [TS]

01:09:09   onstage WBC's a white dude as as you [TS]

01:09:11   know to a first approximation that was [TS]

01:09:13   the case [TS]

01:09:14   not too many years ago and you know like [TS]

01:09:16   that even now that file the company like [TS]

01:09:18   that maybe you feel like oh sure I can [TS]

01:09:20   get a job at an apple store they're good [TS]

01:09:22   at it but like can I you know it [TS]

01:09:25   do I feel like this company is a is [TS]

01:09:29   giving equal opportunity to everybody [TS]

01:09:30   and that's what Apple is working towards [TS]

01:09:32   and I don't think they have yet achieved [TS]

01:09:33   it was about to be putting out these [TS]

01:09:35   numbers so that case he said it were if [TS]

01:09:40   these numbers were given these big [TS]

01:09:41   aggregates and they haven't changed that [TS]

01:09:43   much from from year to year two shows [TS]

01:09:45   they're making slow progress right and [TS]

01:09:47   so it's not phenomenal progress but it [TS]

01:09:49   certainly doesn't mean because you can [TS]

01:09:50   say fifty six percent less than sixty [TS]

01:09:52   percent therefore there done that [TS]

01:09:53   absolutely doesn't mean that because it [TS]

01:09:55   doesn't take much thinking to realize [TS]

01:09:57   well that's just a bigger your number [TS]

01:09:58   and it's not that's not the goal the [TS]

01:10:00   goal is not to simply people are asking [TS]

01:10:01   that i can honestly asking like what is [TS]

01:10:03   the goal what numbers you supposed to [TS]

01:10:05   see here to let you know that Apple has [TS]

01:10:07   achieved its goal of diversity and the [TS]

01:10:09   answer is those numbers are never going [TS]

01:10:11   to tell you that right otherwise you [TS]

01:10:13   know they wouldn't they wouldn't be [TS]

01:10:14   continuing along this path they were [TS]

01:10:15   just say when we're done we've [TS]

01:10:16   accomplished our goal is not great right [TS]

01:10:18   and that's before you even get into the [TS]

01:10:21   office of like percentage of US [TS]

01:10:22   population versus percentage of US [TS]

01:10:24   population of working-age like not [TS]

01:10:26   babies not children not retired people [TS]

01:10:29   you know so it's numbers are complicated [TS]

01:10:31   but I anyway I'm i am confident that [TS]

01:10:34   Apple understands the problem before [TS]

01:10:35   them and is working towards it just just [TS]

01:10:38   as I am not particularly tied to the [TS]

01:10:41   specific numbers that throughout on [TS]

01:10:42   these pages are basically looking for is [TS]

01:10:43   our little grass they put up going in an [TS]

01:10:46   upward direction [TS]

01:10:47   do they have enough of them every year [TS]

01:10:48   so they show their making progress and [TS]

01:10:50   how fast that progress one of the slopes [TS]

01:10:52   look like yeah that's about it [TS]

01:10:57   alright well we are out of follow-up [TS]

01:11:00   thanks a lot 43 sponsors this week [TS]

01:11:02   betterment tracker and automatic and we [TS]

01:11:04   will see you next week [TS]

01:11:08   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:11:12   mean to be in as it was accidental death [TS]

01:11:16   was accidental [TS]

01:11:18   John didn't research Marco and Casey [TS]

01:11:22   would let me [TS]

01:11:24   because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

01:11:28   and you can find the show know today p [TS]

01:11:33   dot and it for twitter follow them [TS]

01:11:41   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:11:45   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

01:11:53   syracuse it [TS]

01:12:05   don't want to talk about the Intel fan [TS]

01:12:10   thing that's topic can we make that [TS]

01:12:13   quick [TS]

01:12:15   mmm yeah exactly [TS]

01:12:18   maybe I don't do it let's take down what [TS]

01:12:21   we have here is where we have an [TS]

01:12:22   after-show then we can do Instagram [TS]

01:12:23   stories and stories good ideas that's [TS]

01:12:25   fluffy [TS]

01:12:26   yeah it's it's this thing that appear on [TS]

01:12:28   top of Instagram recently that's [TS]

01:12:30   confusing all the old people like me [TS]

01:12:31   you're not that old [TS]

01:12:33   your wife's face is always up there she [TS]

01:12:37   figured out very quickly because she is [TS]

01:12:40   young at heart and also biologically [TS]

01:12:42   then I am I am 2014 13 pounds i think [TS]

01:12:47   like six about sex yet so I i am too old [TS]

01:12:52   to understand snapchat so instagram has [TS]

01:12:55   basically cloned a a major part of [TS]

01:12:58   snapchat into the Instagram interface [TS]

01:13:00   which has just confused [TS]

01:13:02   instagram for me and now I have this row [TS]

01:13:05   of heads on top of instagram i tap them [TS]

01:13:07   and weird things happen and I don't [TS]

01:13:09   really know what I'm supposed to be [TS]

01:13:10   doing with this can you explain to me [TS]

01:13:11   so John a year i don't think i've seen [TS]

01:13:14   any post from you yet so you're not [TS]

01:13:16   producing using this although i presume [TS]

01:13:19   you're at least consuming it is that [TS]

01:13:20   fair [TS]

01:13:21   yeah I don't see myself wearing one of [TS]

01:13:23   these videos but they're up there on the [TS]

01:13:24   top of the faces [TS]

01:13:25   ok so the idea here from what I can [TS]

01:13:29   understand someone who's never used [TS]

01:13:30   snapchat and didn't really have any [TS]

01:13:32   interest in snapchat is with instagram [TS]

01:13:35   stories you can take a photo or a video [TS]

01:13:40   that is semi ephemeral so I believe it's [TS]

01:13:44   after a day they will self-destruct and [TS]

01:13:47   your phone explodes it's very [TS]

01:13:49   inconvenient now they will self-destruct [TS]

01:13:50   and then they won't be available anymore [TS]

01:13:53   not to you not to anyone else and so the [TS]

01:13:55   idea is if your Instagram profile in the [TS]

01:14:00   photos that you post on Instagram proper [TS]

01:14:02   is the like super stage super deliberate [TS]

01:14:06   super-serious version of you [TS]

01:14:08   instagram stories which is this [TS]

01:14:10   ephemeral thing is more of the candied [TS]

01:14:14   fun-loving like a here's here's me [TS]

01:14:16   here's the real me [TS]

01:14:18   take it or leave it sort of thing and I [TS]

01:14:20   actually wanted to call out the latest [TS]

01:14:23   episode of connected which is episode 13 [TS]

01:14:25   the hosted a really incredible job of of [TS]

01:14:30   talking about kind of what the [TS]

01:14:31   motivations are behind Instagram stories [TS]

01:14:33   and how it's different than than regular [TS]

01:14:36   Instagram but regardless I've really [TS]

01:14:40   been enjoying it a lot more than I [TS]

01:14:42   thought I would as someone who had not [TS]

01:14:44   even the slightest interest in snapchat [TS]

01:14:46   and one of the common complaints about [TS]

01:14:48   snapchat that I've understood is that [TS]

01:14:50   anyone who is over the age of about [TS]

01:14:52   eighteen finds the interface completely [TS]

01:14:54   inscrutable and everything's [TS]

01:14:56   gesture-based and as much as we all hate [TS]

01:14:59   tutorials as you install an app for the [TS]

01:15:01   first time there this is one of those [TS]

01:15:04   instances where a tutorial or [TS]

01:15:05   walkthrough or onboarding would have [TS]

01:15:08   perhaps been useful in snapchat because [TS]

01:15:11   everything's gesture-based nothing [TS]

01:15:12   obvious everything's weird Instagram [TS]

01:15:15   there's a little bit of that Instagram [TS]

01:15:16   stories but it's not nearly as bad and i [TS]

01:15:19   was able to figure it out pretty quickly [TS]

01:15:21   and I'd classify myself as an old man [TS]

01:15:24   just as much as you two are and I've [TS]

01:15:27   been enjoying both consuming and [TS]

01:15:28   creating one of the things I've wondered [TS]

01:15:31   as I consider whether or not to post a [TS]

01:15:33   new entry in my Instagram story which [TS]

01:15:35   sounds super cheesy but anyway one of [TS]

01:15:38   these have been considering is why would [TS]

01:15:40   anyone else give a crap about this so [TS]

01:15:42   like as an example i was going to take a [TS]

01:15:44   picture my setup at work and you know [TS]

01:15:47   after having obscured that the sensitive [TS]

01:15:49   parts of what was on my computer screen [TS]

01:15:51   and then it occurred to me i don't think [TS]

01:15:53   anyone really gives crap and so while i [TS]

01:15:55   was at the beach you know it i'm on [TS]

01:15:57   vacation we that's exciting and kinda [TS]

01:15:59   cool or whatever I i posted a handful of [TS]

01:16:02   times then but now that I'm back in my [TS]

01:16:05   normal grind well it's not my normal [TS]

01:16:07   high roller [TS]

01:16:08   you know look at me I'm so awesome life [TS]

01:16:10   it's my normal grind so I don't know if [TS]

01:16:12   I'll be producing that much for posting [TS]

01:16:15   that often of from now until the next [TS]

01:16:18   time I do something interesting but i [TS]

01:16:21   really liked the idea and I echo what [TS]

01:16:23   Mike it said on unconnected with a nice [TS]

01:16:27   talk about it and he and I both talked [TS]

01:16:28   about this on analog as well that [TS]

01:16:30   Instagram is kind of my happy social [TS]

01:16:32   network i get a lot out of out of [TS]

01:16:35   Twitter and I enjoy twitter but Twitter [TS]

01:16:37   is nevertheless kind of a dumpster fire [TS]

01:16:41   where I cannot remember a time that [TS]

01:16:44   instagram has made me anything but happy [TS]

01:16:47   and even with stories it makes me happy [TS]

01:16:50   in a different way because it's kind of [TS]

01:16:51   the fun ephemeral you know hey it's not [TS]

01:16:54   gonna be perfect and that's okay because [TS]

01:16:55   life isn't perfect and and it's brought [TS]

01:16:58   and this is a super sleazy business [TS]

01:17:01   eater but it's brought my engagement [TS]

01:17:02   with instagram up even more and I check [TS]

01:17:04   Instagram a handful times a day because [TS]

01:17:06   I enjoyed so much but now I found myself [TS]

01:17:08   checking it more often wondering which [TS]

01:17:10   one of my friends because I tend to [TS]

01:17:11   follow mostly friends on Instagram which [TS]

01:17:14   one of my friends posted something new [TS]

01:17:15   and something worth looking at and so I [TS]

01:17:17   have really been enjoying it two thumbs [TS]

01:17:20   up from me [TS]

01:17:21   I think it's super super interesting and [TS]

01:17:23   it seems to have traction so far don't [TS]

01:17:26   think it's a flash-in-the-pan this isn't [TS]

01:17:29   the next peach i don't think but remind [TS]

01:17:32   me that in six months is physically yeah [TS]

01:17:34   i mean like this i have i've been using [TS]

01:17:37   Instagram or more recently been using [TS]

01:17:39   the Explorer view a little search thing [TS]

01:17:40   at the bottom which to pinterest me too [TS]

01:17:42   and I didn't even realize that's what [TS]

01:17:44   that was there I thought it was [TS]

01:17:45   literally a search and I never wanted to [TS]

01:17:47   search for anything so I never visited [TS]

01:17:49   that tab and it turns out it's more like [TS]

01:17:51   a browser Explorer view and you kinda [TS]

01:17:54   let you know you like you pick topics so [TS]

01:17:55   mine's like full of watches and puppies [TS]

01:17:57   now which is awesome and I didn't know [TS]

01:17:59   that either actually it is really nice [TS]

01:18:02   to me i'm using Instagram Milano and I [TS]

01:18:04   have the same things as you like [TS]

01:18:05   Instagram is is just feel good place it [TS]

01:18:08   is both to browse and to post it is a [TS]

01:18:11   just nice place to be [TS]

01:18:12   people aren't universally terrible on my [TS]

01:18:15   Twitter well i'm in general like I'm [TS]

01:18:18   saying even including all services that [TS]

01:18:20   we have people in general are not [TS]

01:18:22   terrible [TS]

01:18:23   the design of a social thing online and [TS]

01:18:27   social constructs social service like [TS]

01:18:28   the whole design of it the structure [TS]

01:18:31   what's allowed what's possible how [TS]

01:18:34   things work who sees what that all [TS]

01:18:37   effects how you how horrible people are [TS]

01:18:41   are enabled to be and how and what kind [TS]

01:18:44   of impact [TS]

01:18:44   they're horribleness can have so the [TS]

01:18:46   same like the same group of people can [TS]

01:18:49   use two different services and act very [TS]

01:18:51   differently on them and get very [TS]

01:18:53   different things out of them because [TS]

01:18:54   because of differences in their design [TS]

01:18:55   and so even if the exact same even if [TS]

01:18:58   Twitter's entire user base is also [TS]

01:19:00   facebook is also instagrams exactly is [TS]

01:19:02   your base you have better results on [TS]

01:19:04   instagram because just the form and the [TS]

01:19:07   structure and like the way everything [TS]

01:19:08   works in a set of expectations of of it [TS]

01:19:11   and the format and everything just [TS]

01:19:12   encourage better behavior and limit the [TS]

01:19:15   places people can be horrible to you [TS]

01:19:17   so that's good what worries me about [TS]

01:19:20   this and you know and I want to [TS]

01:19:22   interview snapchat was you know the end [TS]

01:19:24   again yet that conversation connected [TS]

01:19:25   was awesome and willing to it one of the [TS]

01:19:28   reasons i never had to get into it was [TS]

01:19:30   because no one that I know really uses [TS]

01:19:33   it like all the people i would be [TS]

01:19:35   interacting with our on twitter and [TS]

01:19:36   instagram so I don't need to use first [TS]

01:19:39   of all don't use facebook which is great [TS]

01:19:41   because i want to use facebook and i [TS]

01:19:43   also and yes i know they own it and it [TS]

01:19:44   doesn't matter and i also never had to [TS]

01:19:47   use snapchat because just you know my [TS]

01:19:49   people aren't there really so to bring [TS]

01:19:52   that to Instagram to basically bring [TS]

01:19:54   like a major feature of snapchat to [TS]

01:19:56   Instagram is kind of okay [TS]

01:20:00   on one level because it's like well I [TS]

01:20:02   was gonna use snapchat anyway because my [TS]

01:20:05   friends weren't there but on the other [TS]

01:20:07   hand it really shows what you know [TS]

01:20:09   Facebook has always been a very [TS]

01:20:10   tasteless company [TS]

01:20:12   facebook is pragmatic and ruthless and [TS]

01:20:14   tasteless just like Microsoft was in the [TS]

01:20:17   eighties and nineties really facebook [TS]

01:20:19   now is this this conglomerate really [TS]

01:20:21   they have tons of properties that are [TS]

01:20:24   major on the internet they have they [TS]

01:20:26   have Facebook itself which is probably [TS]

01:20:28   the biggest web property in the world [TS]

01:20:31   and probably will stay that way for [TS]

01:20:32   quite some time [TS]

01:20:33   anything that gets really big that they [TS]

01:20:35   think might threaten that they just buy [TS]

01:20:37   it they have enough money to keep doing [TS]

01:20:38   that indefinitely and they are clearly [TS]

01:20:42   totally okay with like well if you won't [TS]

01:20:45   let us buy you were just gonna rip you [TS]

01:20:46   off and we'll just kill you that way and [TS]

01:20:49   that strategy doesn't always work it [TS]

01:20:52   with you know Microsoft the same thing [TS]

01:20:54   you know it [TS]

01:20:55   Apple has done things that like on a [TS]

01:20:57   smaller scale sure locking things but [TS]

01:20:58   they don't usually do a huge scale job [TS]

01:21:00   of it stuff like this google does it [TS]

01:21:02   sometimes and that strategy tends to [TS]

01:21:05   work like in general when companies when [TS]

01:21:08   like the big powerful companies that [TS]

01:21:09   already have all the users and all the [TS]

01:21:12   usage and all the attention going to [TS]

01:21:14   them and all this time spent on their [TS]

01:21:15   services if they clone some smaller [TS]

01:21:18   service there clone often wins and if [TS]

01:21:22   they can't clone it they can buy it and [TS]

01:21:24   this just kinda it's a bit of a warning [TS]

01:21:26   sign of the power that Facebook has and [TS]

01:21:30   i'm not saying snapchat will be killed [TS]

01:21:31   by this in all likelihood snapchat is [TS]

01:21:33   too big now and they'll probably be [TS]

01:21:35   totally fine because that's really big i [TS]

01:21:37   think they're bigger than Twitter [TS]

01:21:38   they're really big but it does kind of [TS]

01:21:42   scare me a little bit that facebook is [TS]

01:21:44   willing to so so cavalierly just like [TS]

01:21:47   completely rip off the stories feature [TS]

01:21:50   called the same thing do the same things [TS]

01:21:52   use the same gestures like completely [TS]

01:21:54   rip it off it's so closely and so [TS]

01:21:57   shamelessly and they just couldn't [TS]

01:21:59   possibly care less because they are just [TS]

01:22:00   that ruthless and we we live in an age [TS]

01:22:04   now where these these these handful of [TS]

01:22:06   big internet companies have a lot of [TS]

01:22:09   control over us a lot of resources and [TS]

01:22:13   like the centralization of power here is [TS]

01:22:16   just getting more and more severe and [TS]

01:22:19   that kind of worries me for the future [TS]

01:22:20   of like internet things general things [TS]

01:22:23   we do online that that use the internet [TS]

01:22:25   that involve the internet or are the [TS]

01:22:26   internet it is a little concerning thing [TS]

01:22:30   that struck me about using this and [TS]

01:22:31   having new snapchat a little bit is the [TS]

01:22:35   one you often hear and you guys said [TS]

01:22:37   before i go well you know I don't [TS]

01:22:39   understand that put on the kids [TS]

01:22:40   understand it or whatever I did yeah [TS]

01:22:42   there is the demographic thing about [TS]

01:22:44   what age groups use which application [TS]

01:22:45   that's definitely true and more older [TS]

01:22:47   people use Instagram or whatever but [TS]

01:22:50   snapchat and also the extreme stories [TS]

01:22:53   have bad interfaces they have bad user [TS]

01:22:57   interfaces like there is no sensible [TS]

01:22:59   structure to to the interface they don't [TS]

01:23:03   use OS conventions that's for sure [TS]

01:23:05   right so the normal affordances and sort [TS]

01:23:07   of the things you're used to in [TS]

01:23:08   generic uikit you know I don't know [TS]

01:23:11   about another problem just talked about [TS]

01:23:12   in iOS but like it doesn't look like iOS [TS]

01:23:13   that's for sure [TS]

01:23:14   right so it's kind of its own thing and [TS]

01:23:16   within its own thing they don't really [TS]

01:23:18   define any particular spatial metaphor [TS]

01:23:22   or something to hang your hat on where [TS]

01:23:24   you can say oh I see all of swipes to [TS]

01:23:26   this i mean like basically if you you [TS]

01:23:28   know if someone's like oh snap just only [TS]

01:23:30   sensible what you'd basically be doing [TS]

01:23:32   is listing this does that this does that [TS]

01:23:34   this doesn't just like that there now [TS]

01:23:35   and parts that's not a system that is [TS]

01:23:37   just a list of actions and the resulting [TS]

01:23:39   you know what you're looking for a [TS]

01:23:40   system is like because I understand the [TS]

01:23:42   system before you tell me the list of [TS]

01:23:44   all things i can do i can predict oh [TS]

01:23:46   then obviously the way to do X is going [TS]

01:23:48   to be why that's when you know you have [TS]

01:23:50   a system snapchat doesn't have a system [TS]

01:23:52   or not a very good system it's a lot of [TS]

01:23:53   arbitrary crap and they're not using [TS]

01:23:55   native controls not using serve [TS]

01:23:57   unprecedented right sort of setting [TS]

01:23:59   their own standard and why does does [TS]

01:24:03   that mean is that is that why young [TS]

01:24:05   people get snapped and people don't know [TS]

01:24:07   like there are other factors there in [TS]

01:24:08   terms of what's advertised towards into [TS]

01:24:10   the first users were and you know [TS]

01:24:11   critical mass and social networks and [TS]

01:24:13   look where my friends are all things [TS]

01:24:15   that all factors that as well but I [TS]

01:24:16   think there is something to the idea [TS]

01:24:18   that young people will be full to do [TS]

01:24:22   something there's a bunch of their [TS]

01:24:23   friends are doing it they'll just figure [TS]

01:24:26   it out [TS]

01:24:26   they have a high tolerance for learning [TS]

01:24:28   RG arbitrary stupid crap i think about [TS]

01:24:30   all the arbitrary stupid crap that I [TS]

01:24:32   learned which basically is the entire [TS]

01:24:33   early years of computing where [TS]

01:24:35   everything was terrible and nothing made [TS]

01:24:37   sense and the mac was the only one had [TS]

01:24:38   kind of an understandable system [TS]

01:24:40   think of all the things that i memorize [TS]

01:24:41   things i learned how to do in video [TS]

01:24:42   games there was no system is arbitrary [TS]

01:24:44   and kids have a lot of time and you're [TS]

01:24:47   good memories and they'll just plug away [TS]

01:24:49   until it becomes second nature to them [TS]

01:24:51   so the kids snapchat makes perfect sense [TS]

01:24:53   because they memorize all the the stupid [TS]

01:24:55   gestures and commands even those [TS]

01:24:56   gestures and commands are almost [TS]

01:24:58   entirely arbitrary countered everything [TS]

01:25:00   that every other UI paradigm the device [TS]

01:25:02   they're holding has taught them and are [TS]

01:25:04   just plain bad right [TS]

01:25:06   they're just bad this is the bad you iso [TS]

01:25:08   Instagram stories didn't use all the [TS]

01:25:10   same things that snapped up but it's a [TS]

01:25:12   similar thing we're Instagram was a very [TS]

01:25:13   sensible straight up the middle iOS [TS]

01:25:15   application with the reasonable UI using [TS]

01:25:17   metaphors and controls and [TS]

01:25:19   the interfaces that we understood so you [TS]

01:25:21   can predict what would happen when you [TS]

01:25:22   did thanks for the most part is always [TS]

01:25:23   the weird edge cases and custom controls [TS]

01:25:25   and stuff but then related stories it's [TS]

01:25:28   in la-la land again where nothing makes [TS]

01:25:30   sense and you can't you have no you have [TS]

01:25:32   no nothing to hang your hat on except [TS]

01:25:34   for like maybe it will behave like [TS]

01:25:36   snapchat which again maybe that's [TS]

01:25:38   establishing a standard maybe you're [TS]

01:25:39   familiar with snapchat that might be a [TS]

01:25:40   good way to go if you're trying to do [TS]

01:25:41   like what marco said like oh we want to [TS]

01:25:43   do a snapchat like then just copy [TS]

01:25:45   snapshots gestures because all the kids [TS]

01:25:46   who snapchat it makes perfect sense of [TS]

01:25:48   them and they go do your thing and [TS]

01:25:49   Swiper drag or tap and it doesn't do [TS]

01:25:52   what they expect from using snapchat [TS]

01:25:53   they think your thing is broken but [TS]

01:25:55   again it's not a good you I just because [TS]

01:25:57   they make it like snapchat for like or [TS]

01:25:59   you know making similar snap try to get [TS]

01:26:01   a little bar they've got on the top with [TS]

01:26:04   a little segment and timers and what [TS]

01:26:06   happens when you swipe in different [TS]

01:26:07   directions and the little rotating [TS]

01:26:08   effect versus the sliding vs up and down [TS]

01:26:11   and tapping and it's just these are bad [TS]

01:26:14   interfaces and so I maintained as the [TS]

01:26:16   old cranky person but not only the [TS]

01:26:19   actual reason like old people don't [TS]

01:26:21   understand snapchat because they made a [TS]

01:26:23   bad UI and because older people have [TS]

01:26:26   less tolerance for figuring out a bad [TS]

01:26:28   you want it doesn't look like the other [TS]

01:26:30   ones doing it and I don't just think [TS]

01:26:32   it's like it i think it's bad on many [TS]

01:26:34   many levels and again this doesn't [TS]

01:26:35   explain why old people don't use that [TS]

01:26:37   there's so many other reasons but this [TS]

01:26:38   is a factor I'm saying this is this is a [TS]

01:26:40   factor in that giant students not the [TS]

01:26:41   biggest factor is not you know even [TS]

01:26:43   maybe a major factor but it's there and [TS]

01:26:45   that annoys me because I feel like [TS]

01:26:47   snapchat could have been successful with [TS]

01:26:50   a clever innovative you i think a lot of [TS]

01:26:53   games do this like you wanted to use no [TS]

01:26:55   native controls totally custom doesn't [TS]

01:26:57   use anything you like it is the same on [TS]

01:26:59   Android and iOS but is delightful and [TS]

01:27:01   understandable and fun to use and [TS]

01:27:04   someone can pick up and learn you again [TS]

01:27:06   at this is my hobby horse but it's [TS]

01:27:08   really true if you make some kind of [TS]

01:27:10   physical world based metaphor like I [TS]

01:27:13   have stacks of cards and we can slide [TS]

01:27:14   them side to side and up and down and [TS]

01:27:16   bring them together and collapse them or [TS]

01:27:18   i can crunch them up or like if you make [TS]

01:27:20   some sort of thing like these aren't [TS]

01:27:21   physical things but in some ways they [TS]

01:27:24   behave and physical things are the is [TS]

01:27:25   like a larger map that you can't see of [TS]

01:27:27   this application once you learn the [TS]

01:27:29   layout of that Matthew know how to move [TS]

01:27:31   around it and you know how to make [TS]

01:27:32   things happen and you know what a button [TS]

01:27:34   looks like and you understand like any [TS]

01:27:36   kind of metaphor like that even if he [TS]

01:27:38   uses totally underrated non-native [TS]

01:27:40   controls can become understandable when [TS]

01:27:42   people start using it [TS]

01:27:43   learn one or two things that all i see [TS]

01:27:45   how this works and they can figure out [TS]

01:27:47   how to do the other things without being [TS]

01:27:48   told explicitly whereas snapchat like [TS]

01:27:51   all mystery meat navigation a bunch of [TS]

01:27:53   inscrutable icons and no real sense of [TS]

01:27:56   where you are what you're doing where [TS]

01:27:57   you going to just memorize how it works [TS]

01:27:59   because you're young and you have a lot [TS]

01:28:00   of time or use the application a lot and [TS]

01:28:02   that becomes second nature you just [TS]

01:28:03   think that's normal [TS]

01:28:04   so if you ask any kid snapchat [TS]

01:28:06   easy-to-use they like everyone knows how [TS]

01:28:07   to use snapchats like i like i know how [TS]

01:28:09   to write my name and I put one foot in [TS]

01:28:10   front of the other walk and you snapped [TS]

01:28:12   as the most intuitive interface on my [TS]

01:28:13   entire phone [TS]

01:28:14   no just use it a lot that's what that [TS]

01:28:16   means that doesn't mean it's a good UI [TS]

01:28:17   and the reason they like using it is [TS]

01:28:20   because it makes people like us that [TS]

01:28:22   angry not but that's not why where I'm [TS]

01:28:24   about like I'm just saying it's a bad [TS]

01:28:25   you I you angry about it because it's [TS]

01:28:27   like you're making silly videos of [TS]

01:28:28   yourself and send your friends and like [TS]

01:28:29   all these kids these days shouldn't be [TS]

01:28:31   taking video I don't care about that [TS]

01:28:32   whatever take videos you live in the [TS]

01:28:34   same thing when we take videos and our [TS]

01:28:35   things and send our friends that's fine [TS]

01:28:37   like whatever that I have no I have no [TS]

01:28:39   anger towards people use snapchat I [TS]

01:28:41   hangers the developers of snapchat for [TS]

01:28:43   making a bad you I that users thumbs-up [TS]

01:28:48   snapchat developers thumbs down [TS]