0:00:00[Music]
0:00:07From Relay FM, this is Connected episode 239.
0:00:11This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, Pingdom and Moo.
0:00:15My name is Federico Vittucci and this being an odd-numbered episode,
0:00:20it's my very utmost pleasure to introduce my friend and co-host, Myke Hurley.
0:00:25How are you, Myke?
0:00:26Finally, I get the introduction I've always wanted. It was perfect Federico, thank you.
0:00:31Thank you, thank you. It feels so professional. So as you may guess, our...
0:00:35Dad's away.
0:00:36Dad's away. So co-hosts gone wild today. It's a fun packed episode of Connected. We've been
0:00:49planning a bunch of topics and of course we are dispensing with follow-up today. Who needs
0:00:55follow up. Nobody needs follow up. That all happened in the past anyway no one cares.
0:01:00Here we are. We've got new things to talk about. It's all about new things and the future.
0:01:05Actually our first new thing is talking about your 10 year anniversary. Oh no. Well it's
0:01:13new you know you've only hit 10 years. It's a new anniversary. So yeah this week this
0:01:20week actually on Saturday right the 20th is the exact date that marks the 10 year anniversary
0:01:28of Macstories.net which is Federico's website which you I'd be super surprised if you didn't
0:01:34know by now but so we just wanted to kind of note at the top that like you guys have
0:01:40been doing a bunch of wonderful content this week and there's a ton of stuff over at the
0:01:43website like you've written a piece and John has Graham came back to write something I
0:01:48I think Steven's written something as well.
0:01:50Yes.
0:01:50He shared it with me, which I see.
0:01:51Is that going up on the website?
0:01:53Yeah, I think it's tomorrow.
0:01:55OK. Yeah.
0:01:56So that's actually really nice because it is
0:01:58an oral history of our show, The Prompt and Connected.
0:02:02That's really that's like a I don't know if you know this,
0:02:05but that's what it's about.
0:02:06I don't know if you've seen it.
0:02:08I've heard.
0:02:09You talking to me?
0:02:10I have seen it.
0:02:12OK, cool.
0:02:12I wasn't sure if it was a surprise for you.
0:02:14Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
0:02:16Because I was aware of Stephen's brief, which was John just said, "Do you know the brief
0:02:21that John gave to Stephen for this?"
0:02:23No, that I'm not aware of.
0:02:25You've known Federico the longest, write something.
0:02:30It was effectively that.
0:02:32That's my guy.
0:02:33I like that.
0:02:34So then Stephen was like, "Alright, I'll write about how the prompt came about."
0:02:39There was a wonderful episode of App Stories, episode 107, which people should go and listen
0:02:44to.
0:02:45long and it is John just grilling you about everything Mac stories related. I was fascinated
0:02:53by it because you sound so smart in it. Not that you aren't, but like sometimes it's nice
0:02:58to hear. In this specific episode you sound smart. In this one specific instance you were
0:03:01prepared enough that you were able to fool everyone. No, it's nice sometimes to be able
0:03:06to hear people that you know are accomplished and are capable talk about things from a point
0:03:16of authority because then you realize kind of just how accomplished and capable they
0:03:22are and so that was really nice to listen to because you super sounded like you knew
0:03:27what you were doing and it was very nice to hear it all.
0:03:30Like there were some stories I'd heard before but the way it all came together was really
0:03:35well done right like it's and this is one of those things it's like yeah you've probably heard
0:03:40a version maybe of Federico's origin story before like the ebay store every long time listeners of
0:03:45this show know about the ebay store right but it's it's when it's done in a different context
0:03:50even those similar stories work perfectly and yeah it's a really really fascinating
0:03:5490 minutes i learned some stuff about you actually that i don't think i knew
0:04:02you seem to have like a real feeling about like not wanting to waste people's time like in a way
0:04:09that I don't think I've ever really heard you talk about that before so it's very very interesting
0:04:15and so yeah 10 years congratulations to you that is bonkers I'm having my 10 years um
0:04:25next year? no wait 10 years for what? in podcasting? i missed it it was last wednesday
0:04:34this is not how you're supposed to do anniversaries mike
0:04:42april 10th 2009 was my first ever podcast so and you just realized? i just realized yeah
0:04:51Well congratulations!
0:04:52Wait, when did the iPad come out?
0:04:54It was 2010.
0:04:56Then it's next year.
0:04:57It's next April.
0:04:58Oh my god.
0:04:59Look what do you want from me man? I can't keep track of these things.
0:05:01I've erased all of that from the internet so it's difficult for me to find out but yeah.
0:05:05It's a real roller coaster of emotions right now.
0:05:08I've just passed nine years, I missed that.
0:05:10So I've been podcasting for nine years and one week so next year is my ten year.
0:05:16Have I told you this story?
0:05:18You've probably heard this before. There was once on an episode of analog, I mentioned how old I was, right?
0:05:23Like maybe like my birthday was coming up or something and I mentioned how old I was
0:05:27And then I got follow-up correcting my age
0:05:30Because I got it wrong
0:05:33I think I know this yet. So, you know, what do you want from me? This is how I am. Anyway, congratulations Federico. Thank you
0:05:40Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate the kind words, especially on the App Stories episode. Uh, yeah, this was fun. That was fun
0:05:46And I don't like celebrating anniversaries, but ten years is a big number and all that.
0:05:51So it felt appropriate, but still there's a bunch of other things on Mac Stories this
0:05:56week so it's not just about us.
0:05:58There's also back to work and all of that.
0:06:01I just don't like talking about myself too much.
0:06:04That's why I normally don't share these things.
0:06:06But I'm pleased that when I did, you liked it.
0:06:10Every now and then you go to allow yourself some of that time.
0:06:15Alright, so on to the next topic. We want to talk about an app that launched today,
0:06:21and that, Myke, you are actually kind of responsible for it in a way.
0:06:25In a roundabout weird way, yes.
0:06:28So what's this?
0:06:30Our friend _DavidSmith, who is a prolific iOS app developer and the host of Under the
0:06:37Radar, the co-host of Under the Radar here on Relay FM, has released an app called Calzones.
0:06:43Now, here's the thing, so here's what I also want to know.
0:06:45How do you say it?
0:06:46Calzones or calzones?
0:06:47I'm not sure.
0:06:48Like I haven't worked out the emphasis yet.
0:06:51It is probably, I mean, we could talk about how great the app is in a minute.
0:06:55Wait, can you, is there a difference in what you said?
0:06:58Yeah, calzones or calzones.
0:07:01It's like how much do you emphasize the cal in it?
0:07:04It sounds the same to me.
0:07:06I'm not surprised, but like there is a slight difference.
0:07:10like if you're just saying the word calzone you don't stop right like you're just like you're
0:07:15just saying the word calzone but because you know it's two things and it's like what is it called
0:07:20camel case when you've got like letters in the middle i can never remember so it's like do you
0:07:25kind of like take a second to stop like calzones calzones i don't know but anyway oh yeah no now i
0:07:32i can hear that yeah i i say calzones yeah calzones hmm i don't know how i say it i think it changes
0:07:40is
0:07:59I don't even know if Underscore would even be happy with me sharing it, but I remember
0:08:03that he said, Lauren, his wife, was like, she had this idea for Calzones, what do you
0:08:09think?
0:08:10And I was like, oh hell yeah.
0:08:11And at first I was like, I'm not sure if like, just my propensity for pun-based humor means
0:08:17that this is good or not, but I love it.
0:08:20And luckily everybody else seems to think that it's really funny too, and clever.
0:08:25So it's also really memorable.
0:08:28I do wonder what the iOS 6 version of this app would have looked like.
0:08:35Why? Why do you wonder that?
0:08:37It would have been full of like dough and like ovens and stuff, right? Surely.
0:08:41Oh, for the heck of a reason.
0:08:43The skeuomorphic version of calzones would just be full of pizza toppings.
0:08:47Yeah, so the thing that I noticed today on Twitter is that a bunch of people wanted to check on me
0:08:54on me whether I knew that you know calzones sounds like calzone like the
0:09:00food the meal and yes why would I not know this it's not that it sounds like
0:09:06it's the same word it's just more than one calzone yes we do have calzone in
0:09:12Italy we pronounce it differently how do you pronounce it no it's very different
0:09:17it's calzone oh that's not that different okay it's I guess the accent
0:09:22is different. If you would have said to me how do you think we say it in Italy, that's
0:09:26how I would have said it. Okay, and also this is interesting, I got a bunch of people saying
0:09:31that it sounds kind of funny in Spanish or Portuguese, I'm not sure, basically it's the
0:09:37word for underpants I think. That's incredible. That's the thing, and I mean technically in
0:09:43Italian calzoni would mean like trousers I guess, it's the same word really, but here's
0:09:51Here's the thing, when you do an English pun, an English name, it's gonna sound weird in
0:09:58some other language.
0:09:59Yeah, it doesn't matter what it is.
0:10:02There's some app names that sound funny in Italian, and there's nothing you can do about
0:10:06it.
0:10:07So I think it's a very funny pun.
0:10:10And sort of a...
0:10:11I guess if you think about it, I guess calzones are like the underpants of pizza.
0:10:16It's like wraps around... anyway.
0:10:21We should talk about the app itself.
0:10:22- It's very good.
0:10:24Do you wanna just describe the basic UI
0:10:27and then I have like a bunch of little parts
0:10:28that I wanna talk about. - Sure.
0:10:29So the idea is there's two main views.
0:10:33There's a grid that lets you compare time zones
0:10:36between multiple locations around the world.
0:10:39And this is a grid that shows you
0:10:43like all the hours of the day.
0:10:45And you can actually in settings,
0:10:48you can set what your work hours are.
0:10:51And those hours will have a lighter shade,
0:10:54a lighter color in the grid.
0:10:57And as you scroll, you can see how the time changes
0:10:59throughout the day across all of your time zones.
0:11:02And when you reach, for example, off work hours
0:11:05and then nighttime hours, the colors get darker
0:11:09and you can advance for multiple days.
0:11:11And at the bottom of this grid,
0:11:13you will see calendar events that start at the time
0:11:17that is above on the grid.
0:11:20And you can see what the time of the event looks like
0:11:24in other time zones.
0:11:25It's a very clever way to compare that.
0:11:26- So like if me and Federico are talking and we're like,
0:11:29oh, we wanna set up something for Tuesday at three o'clock,
0:11:33I would scroll in calzones through my list
0:11:36until I kind of get to Tuesday at three o'clock.
0:11:38So I could do the time zone conversion, right?
0:11:40To see what the time is for everybody involved.
0:11:42But then I would also see,
0:11:44oh, I have a calendar appointment at that time.
0:11:47That, just on its own, that was the idea.
0:11:51So, okay, so the reason I'm involved in this is this,
0:11:54that idea of like, here is a list of all your time zones
0:11:56which you can scroll through
0:11:57and your calendar events appear at the bottom.
0:12:00That was the original idea that Underscore had in February
0:12:02and he sent it to me and my brain exploded
0:12:05because I could not believe I'd never seen this before
0:12:09because if you think about it,
0:12:11when you're doing a time zone conversion,
0:12:13it's super important to know if you're busy at that time, right?
0:12:17Because what I would do is check the time zone conversion,
0:12:21see if everyone can make it, check my calendar,
0:12:25realize I have an appointment, go back, do it again, right? Like this is,
0:12:30this is like the typical flow and adding those two things together is like the
0:12:34genius part of it. So then I told him how excited it,
0:12:37it made me and then he spent a couple of months developing it. Um,
0:12:42And yeah, and then it went on from there.
0:12:45So yeah, so that's like the basic part of Calzones
0:12:49is you have the time zones and you can convert them,
0:12:51you can see where everything is,
0:12:53but it also has integration with a calendar.
0:12:55But then it goes a little bit further than that.
0:12:57- Yeah, so there's a second view
0:12:59and you can flip between them.
0:13:01There's a button in the bottom right corner of the app.
0:13:04The second view is a monthly calendar
0:13:06where it's a standard monthly calendar.
0:13:08Each day has colored dots.
0:13:10if there's any events on that day.
0:13:12And when you tap on a day,
0:13:14you get a list of events at the bottom.
0:13:15Now, each event can be expanded.
0:13:18And when you do, you switch from viewing just the local time
0:13:23of the event to this sort of special expanded view
0:13:28that shows you the local time for the event,
0:13:30but also what that event looks like in other time zones.
0:13:35So for example, right now, let's see,
0:13:37Today is Wednesday.
0:13:38I have connected MI7, but I can expand the event.
0:13:42And it says in London, it will be at 6 p.m. for Myke.
0:13:46Or in Memphis, it'll be noon.
0:13:48And the same would be for John.
0:13:50Now, John is not a timezone, of course,
0:13:53but it's the custom name that I assigned,
0:13:55which is also a feature of Calzones, to Chicago,
0:13:58which is actually the same timezone as Steven in Memphis,
0:14:01but I like to keep them separate.
0:14:02- Yeah, 'cause sometimes locations are not important,
0:14:05but the family members that are in those places are.
0:14:08So you could set the names of all of your family members
0:14:11spread across the world in as this separate time zone.
0:14:14So you can see, oh, for Mary, it's this.
0:14:16For Freddie, it's this, which is like another
0:14:18just nice little feature of the app.
0:14:20- Yeah, and I would say the third major feature for me
0:14:25is the custom date picker in continent.
0:14:28- The custom date picker.
0:14:30- So because it's got,
0:14:35As you can tell, Myke really likes this feature too.
0:14:36- I love this feature.
0:14:38- So you, of course, thanks to the calendar integration,
0:14:42in addition to viewing your events,
0:14:43you can also modify them and create new ones.
0:14:46And when you create a calendar event
0:14:48or when you modify an existing one,
0:14:50there's a, you know, the standard fields
0:14:53for starts and ends, if it's a timed event.
0:14:58And when you tap on them, what's different is that
0:15:01instead of just seeing a single time,
0:15:03usually your local time, you will also get a date picker
0:15:08that shows you multiple time zones.
0:15:10And when you scroll, all of them scroll at the same time
0:15:14in 15 minute increments.
0:15:16So it's like you can schedule an event for your local time,
0:15:21but at the same time, you can also confirm the time
0:15:24in other time zones.
0:15:26It's amazing.
0:15:27- There are a few things in this app.
0:15:30Again, I keep saying it of like,
0:15:33I see them and I'm like, why is this the first time I've seen somebody do this?
0:15:37And this is one of them.
0:15:39Like obviously everybody just uses the standard time date picker because it's
0:15:44built into the system. Like why not just do it? Right.
0:15:46But this is an example of somebody who really understands the app that they're
0:15:51making. Like,
0:15:52Underscore didn't need to put this part in because he has all of the other part,
0:15:57right? Like in theory,
0:15:58you've already checked what the time is because it's a time zone converter,
0:16:00right? You've already checked it.
0:16:02But this just adds that extra level on top to really like totally nail down what this app is all about.
0:16:09And it's one of a few features that I absolutely adore about this application.
0:16:16Another one is the widget in general is incredible.
0:16:21So what we were describing earlier about where you have the grid which shows all of your times,
0:16:26which goes off into the distance and your calendar events at the bottom,
0:16:29That is the widget as well. I've never seen a widget replicate an app's UI in this way.
0:16:37It's incredibly powerful and something that I love about it, so you're in the widget and I'm tapping through and I'm like,
0:16:44"Okay, so I know what time I want to do this. I want to do it at 3pm Eastern."
0:16:48If you tap on 3pm in the Eastern kind of row, it will open up the app to a new event at that time.
0:16:56that time, which is just like, yeah, that's exactly what I want it to do.
0:17:02Right. Because that's perfect.
0:17:04And that's very nice.
0:17:06Did you know it did that?
0:17:07I did. I didn't cover the widget in my review because I really don't use widgets.
0:17:14Basically, my widgets page is just for shortcuts at this point.
0:17:17That makes sense. Yeah, the widget was really, really important to me because.
0:17:22that's what I was all of my timezone conversion was happening in another widget like that's where
0:17:28it was happening before I was using a widget called clock which I've used for years
0:17:32so when when underscore was showing me this stuff I was like the widget has to be good and I need it
0:17:39to be interactive and all that kind of stuff and he just he did something that was very like I say
0:17:43very surprising to me because the widget just looks like the UI of the application I kind of
0:17:48of don't understand how he was able to do that because it seems like it would
0:17:51have been too complex and instead of being able to swipe you just have
0:17:55buttons for left and right and it just scrolls the views but then you just tap
0:17:59on any of the little grid squares you should go look at the the Federico's
0:18:04review there's links in our show notes so you can understand kind of like how it
0:18:07looks but yeah so you tap on any of the grid squares and it just opens to the
0:18:13time though which I think is fantastic the Apple watch complication customizer
0:18:17a feature so you can go and you can create custom complications which in and of itself
0:18:23is just brilliant right like I think it's like a great idea but he but then underscore also
0:18:28rebuilt Apple watch faces inside of his app which work with the tortoise and hare icons to speed it
0:18:34up and stuff so you can see how it will change over the day I don't know why he did that right
0:18:39but I loved it he did it uh and like he was uh there's a great episode of under the radar which
0:18:46they published today too, and basically Underscore just seemed to just do this
0:18:49because he wanted to do it, and I think that that's so fun.
0:18:52Yeah, some of those complications I don't understand myself because they move
0:18:59in a way that is opposite to what I expect.
0:19:03Interesting.
0:19:04The day and night, I think the sun moves counterclockwise, and I was expecting it to
0:19:12move clockwise because that's how I associated the idea of progress. Instead it moves the other way.
0:19:19Instead of, so the moon comes in from the right side of the circle, which was kind of weird to me.
0:19:25I guess that's like, I don't know, because the sun rises east, maybe? I don't know. Anyway,
0:19:32I mostly, I just love the fact that I can put the New York time on my watch face. And yes,
0:19:40I can do it with the Apple Clock app. If you add multiple series in the Clock app on your iPhone,
0:19:46you can add those complications on the Apple Watch. But when I tap on the New York Time on my
0:19:52Watch face, it opens call zones on the Watch, the app. So with one tap I can go from Watch face to
0:20:01the list of time zones on my Watch, which is great for comparing time zones between multiple
0:20:06and I can spin the digital crown to advance the time
0:20:11or go back in the past.
0:20:12It's really well done.
0:20:13And yeah, I mean, I don't know about you, Myke,
0:20:17but I put this one on my home screen
0:20:19and it's on my iPad's dock.
0:20:23There's a few things that I would like to see
0:20:24down in the feature that I mentioned in the review.
0:20:27I would like to see iCloud sync
0:20:30so that I don't have to recreate all my time zones
0:20:32and my custom abbreviations and my custom names.
0:20:35multiple times on the iPhone and iPad.
0:20:38I don't know if it's possible,
0:20:39but I would love to see something different on the iPad
0:20:42in terms of layout.
0:20:43Right now, the app is mostly functional.
0:20:45It's a blown up version of the iPhone app,
0:20:48which is fine for me because I mostly use it in slide over.
0:20:50So it's an iPhone layout anyway,
0:20:52but I wonder if there's maybe a way to do
0:20:55sort of a richer, more versatile.
0:20:57- That would be nice, yeah.
0:20:58- Yeah, and Siri shortcuts would be really good
0:21:02just to be able to assign a voice phrase to,
0:21:06I don't know, show me the Chicago time zone.
0:21:09Because whenever I wanna,
0:21:11I ask Siri to show me a time zone,
0:21:15I always get the syntax wrong.
0:21:16And I think at some point I figured out
0:21:20what the right sequence of words was
0:21:22to get Siri to do time zone conversions like I wanted,
0:21:26but then I forgot.
0:21:27And now I don't have the patience to look into it.
0:21:28- 'Cause now you could just be like,
0:21:30oh, hey, show me Chicago.
0:21:32- Yes. - Right, like that's it, right?
0:21:33And then you'd get it,
0:21:34'cause that's actually a really good thought.
0:21:36I hadn't thought of that one.
0:21:37- And also, my final thing would be,
0:21:40because I have a bunch of shortcuts that do,
0:21:43like custom shortcuts in the Shortcuts app,
0:21:45that do time zone calculations,
0:21:48but they use a web service that I actually pay for,
0:21:52I think, to do those things.
0:21:55I would love to stop using the web API that I'm using
0:21:59and just get the data from calzones.
0:22:02Now, of course, those custom shortcuts
0:22:06would have to be based on acts and workarounds,
0:22:09like getting the data from the system clipboard,
0:22:12but maybe fingers crossed,
0:22:14we're gonna get an actual shortcuts API
0:22:16for developers at WWDC.
0:22:18So maybe underscore, we'll wait for that
0:22:21and do custom shortcuts to get data out of the app.
0:22:24That would be awesome.
0:22:27So recently on an episode of Cortex, I think it's like towards the end of last year, I was
0:22:31I was talking about how I felt that there were no really new apps anymore.
0:22:35Yes.
0:22:35It just and this is something that me and you had a bit of a debate about.
0:22:39I think we I don't think we spoke about it in public, but you
0:22:42I understand understandably because it's your job mostly disagreed with me.
0:22:46But I think we came to some kind of consensus that it slowed down.
0:22:50Like new ideas have slowed down.
0:22:54And what I love about Calzones is that it is completely unique.
0:22:59And it's something that I really need and can use every day
0:23:04that I've never seen before.
0:23:06And it immediately makes sense, which is why it's on my home screen.
0:23:09So I still use it in conjunction with Fantastical
0:23:13because there's still some stuff that I would want to see
0:23:16added to it before I would switch it to be my full calendar as well.
0:23:20like there's stuff that like like managing event invites I don't think any
0:23:24of that is in calzones or natural day entry and things like that but they're
0:23:30all like that's a future for this app if hopefully it works of like making it a
0:23:36fully complete calendar where right now it has all of the basics that you would
0:23:41need for a calendar but these are like the advanced features right of a calendar
0:23:45I always decline calendar invites.
0:23:49Well, Steven loves to send them. Steven just adores sending me calendar invites, so I kind of can't get away from it.
0:23:57He's very calendar invite heavy. I remember there was a time where you used to send calendar invites to us for this show.
0:24:05Yeah, but then I saw the light. I think it was accidental.
0:24:09Do you remember we couldn't get rid of it? It just wouldn't go away. It just kept coming back forever.
0:24:14one? It was one of those things that you do, right? I have this great idea to automate
0:24:19something and then it haunts the people that you work with for months.
0:24:23Well, in my defense I was using Sunrise. Remember Sunrise? The calendar app?
0:24:29That was the one that Microsoft bought, right?
0:24:30Yeah, and then it disappeared. Yeah, it was doing something weird. It was not an automation,
0:24:37it was some kind of a, I don't know, weird feature.
0:24:40with people with regular calendar invites is a nightmare. Like every two weeks I get
0:24:45an email that like Steven's changed it but he hasn't. It just, I don't know what happens.
0:24:49I just get an email where it's like "oh it's been changed in October 2019" it's like this
0:24:53doesn't make any sense, nothing's happened. But yeah I love this app, it's amazing. There
0:24:59is a hashtag #MykeWasRight theme. I think that was David's thanks to me for kind of
0:25:05providing some advice along the way which I love because it means that Myke was right
0:25:10is now featured on the App Store. There's a screenshot with the themes in it. So I get
0:25:16that there. It's kind of a wonderful experience to be able to have input on an application
0:25:23that is specifically going to be used by you. So it's been great to be able to provide Dave
0:25:28with this. And I will tell you, oh boy, that guy is incredible. Right? Like I know everybody
0:25:35knows this about David Smith's developing talent, but seeing things go from like,
0:25:43what do you think? I will say to him like, Oh, Dave, like, what do you think about this?
0:25:47And he's like, Okay, and then like, two hours later, it's he has a new test flight build out.
0:25:51It's like, I don't understand how you've done this. Like, the man is an absolute beast and a
0:25:58genius. And I really think that people should should get this app. It's like $5. It's amazing.
0:26:04If you ever seriously if you ever have to look at a time zone to schedule any kind of call meeting event
0:26:11this is now the
0:26:13Standard bearer of app that you would want right like everything else compares to this
0:26:18Because just some of the basic features of this application a bond on the best way I've ever seen it done
0:26:24So you should check it out because it's amazing not just because underscore is awesome, too
0:26:30It's true.
0:26:31Alright, are you doing the ads or am I doing them?
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0:28:02So I have a friend of the show Guilherme Rambeau who
0:28:08I've so much enjoyed watching him
0:28:12Over the last couple of years going from like hey, I found something to now
0:28:17Works at 9 to 5 Mac and is publishing really interesting stuff all the time
0:28:22Something's happened, right?
0:28:26Because we're on Wednesday, the last three days,
0:28:31Gee has had some kind of scoop that nobody else has gotten near
0:28:37about iOS 13 features.
0:28:39So something's happened.
0:28:42And what I like about this, and I think this shows,
0:28:469to5 have been very smart about this, whoever had this idea,
0:28:49they are taking the Apple approach from a few weeks ago.
0:28:52They've got a bunch of stuff, but let's not do it all at once.
0:28:55Let's own this week, which I assume that they're doing I doubt that this is it unless they're gonna pull an air power on us
0:29:02But right like I expect that there'll be something tomorrow and then just like Mac is cancelled
0:29:06No, I expect there'll be something every day this week
0:29:11But like we'll get into so like some of this stuff happened on Monday and me and Jason spoke about it and we're gonna talk
0:29:20About some of those things today. Then there was a report yesterday and there was another report today
0:29:25they. But I don't know what's happened here. But I expect... Okay, so they're saying that
0:29:35they have sources, which I'm sure they do. But I think someone's got their hands on something.
0:29:42This feels too much. This feels way too deep to be just like, "Oh, we spoke to someone
0:29:49on a bar, right? Like, I wouldn't be surprised if they have spoken to people, they've maybe
0:29:54confirmed things here or there, but some of the details feel like typical Guillermo Rambone
0:30:03and Steve Trout Smith data mining stuff.
0:30:07You know, it's Guillermo featuring Steve, really. It's a collab.
0:30:12Exactly. So like, you see, like just mentioned every now and then, like, "Oh, Steve Trout
0:30:17Smith was involved in helping this article. And that confirms to me that they're digging
0:30:22through stuff together because Steve is not a reporter. That's kind of just my opinion
0:30:32on this. I genuinely do not know, but I expect something's been looked through.
0:30:39Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the kind of detail and the kind of technical sort of analysis
0:30:46that has gone through in these reports really seems to suggest, and this is just my speculation,
0:30:52but it seems to suggest that they must have something on their hands to back up all this
0:30:57information. But in any case, so that would be a really interesting backstory whenever,
0:31:03they're ready to share this if at all possible. If possible. Well, we'll see.
0:31:07I kind of wanted to discuss with you a few aspects of these reports. So you went over,
0:31:14when the first article went out all about iOS 13 and some iPad features, you ran through all of
0:31:20those features with JSON on upgrade. I wanted to focus on some of them, especially because yesterday
0:31:27they had an article about how Apple is planning a sort of Luna display-like product to use
0:31:33the iPad Pro as a display for your Mac. Today they have a third article about "Find My iPhone"
0:31:40and "Find My Friends" becoming single app with support for physical tags that you can
0:31:45attach to it.
0:31:46Which Apple might be making, which seems wild to me.
0:31:50Yeah. So go read those articles. I want to focus on some aspects, specific aspects. So
0:31:55So let's start from the iPad.
0:31:57And I want to talk to you about, because this is a point that you made on upgrade, the idea
0:32:01that the iPad is getting Windows and cards or panels.
0:32:08So this idea of, we're gonna get iPad apps that support multiple Windows, but what do
0:32:14Windows actually look like?
0:32:16And I think we cannot agree on the fact that we're not gonna get Mac-like or PC-like freely
0:32:23resizable Windows.
0:32:24I don't think we can all agree, but I think most people that use iPads know that.
0:32:31I really think that there are a lot of people that think that means it's going to look like
0:32:35the Mac, but it's not going to.
0:32:37It's not going to look like the Mac.
0:32:41Referring to Window as the idea of a canvas, like the space where an app can be.
0:32:50But what's it going to look like when an app can have multiple views?
0:32:54So I think it's referring to, last year I think German at Bloomberg referred to the
0:33:00ability to have tabbed windows, sort of like on the Mac, where modern Mac apps can open
0:33:06multiple tabs for multiple views.
0:33:08I guess the idea would be, they're not going to be traditional windows.
0:33:11You're not going to be able to resize from the corner and make them smaller, I think.
0:33:17For the longest time I thought there were going to be some kind of tabs.
0:33:22And for some reason I imagined, do you remember Myke, when Safari 4 came out many, many years
0:33:30ago, and they did that design with tabs at the top above the address bar, and a lot of
0:33:37people hated the change.
0:33:39I didn't remember it from my memory, but when I went to the link that you provided, I remembered
0:33:45it.
0:33:46So yes, I do remember this.
0:33:47Yeah, so for some reason I always imagined it's gonna look like that, you're gonna be
0:33:52be able to switch between multiple views of the same app with some kind of tab UI
0:33:56at the very top, just right under the status bar. I don't know why. It's just my
0:34:02thought. But bigger picture like, okay, we're gonna get the ability to have
0:34:06multiple views, but what does it actually mean in terms of the content that you
0:34:13see on screen? So right now on iOS, when you open an app, it can be one thing,
0:34:21It can be one screen, one instance of the same app.
0:34:26And I think what we're gonna get in iOS 13
0:34:30is a way to have separate instances of the same app.
0:34:34So for example, you can have pages, which is one app,
0:34:38but you can have multiple views or column tabs
0:34:40or column windows that show you document one
0:34:43and document two.
0:34:44And those two views can be separate.
0:34:46But my question would be instead of what I want
0:34:48discuss with you is to what extent they can be separate.
0:34:51And I have a bunch of questions here.
0:34:53My first one would be, will this
0:34:57improved multitasking feature be exclusive
0:35:02to document based apps or
0:35:05just any app? Because right now, if
0:35:08you think about it, Apple is using as two
0:35:11main systems sort of to identify the kind
0:35:15of content that you see in an iOS app.
0:35:17can either be a document or it can be an activity. And they're using this beautiful API that is NSUserActivity
0:35:24that is basically a catch-all umbrella for everything on iOS at this point. You know, Siri shortcuts are
0:35:29based on NSUserActivity and predictions are based on everything is based on...
0:35:33It's the entire SDK at this point. It's just swallowing everything up slowly.
0:35:37Yeah. So I assume that it's easy to imagine like opening multiple documents, but I think just
0:35:45any app should be capable of showing you multiple views.
0:35:50One example could be one window or one view shows you the Twitter timeline and another
0:35:56view shows you your mentions.
0:35:58That kind of stuff.
0:36:00I don't know what kind of API Apple is going to use, but this idea of not just documents,
0:36:05but anything you want.
0:36:06And again, there's precedent for this, which would be Safari.
0:36:10Safari has its own split view feature that lets you open two web pages.
0:36:16So, not documents, not maybe activities strictly speaking, but just two views from the same app at the same time.
0:36:25Which brings me to my second question, or second point of discussion, is these multiple views.
0:36:33Do they need to be shown at the same time on screen?
0:36:38Like, for example, Safari right now, it supports its own split view, but you need to be in Safari to see these two views simultaneously.
0:36:49But what's being rumored for iOS 13, to me at least, it sounds like something a little more complex than what Safari supports.
0:36:57And I have to wonder, if you're doing multiple instances of the same app, can you actually separate them so that you don't have to see them on screen at the same time?
0:37:08Will you be able to do things like one space will be Twitter and Pages showing you one document and then you will be able to do another space with Safari and also Pages showing you a second document?
0:37:23Will you be able to do this kind of stuff?
0:37:26But if the answer is yes,
0:37:29that adds a whole new layer of complication
0:37:31to managing multitasking on iOS.
0:37:34In that right now, as I mentioned in the beginning,
0:37:37when you're using an app, it's one thing, it's one instance.
0:37:42And if you wanna close that app,
0:37:43you just open the multitasking switcher
0:37:46and you close it and you force quit the app.
0:37:48But if multiple instances are scattered
0:37:52all throughout the multitasking, the app switcher.
0:37:56And if you create these instances that are broken,
0:38:00one is paired with an app and another is full screen
0:38:04and another, like how many can you create?
0:38:06Is it just two?
0:38:07Is it three?
0:38:08Is it four?
0:38:09Can you combine them with other apps?
0:38:11And if yes, how do you close them all?
0:38:13And at what point do you basically recreate
0:38:16what's possible on macOS?
0:38:18Even though they're not resizable windows,
0:38:21you end up in a situation where you can have multiple windows from the same app all over the place.
0:38:25That's how it works on the Mac. You can have multiple Safari windows and you can, you know,
0:38:30replace them whatever you want. You can have spaces, you can have, you know, resize them. On iOS, you wouldn't be able to resize them.
0:38:37But if we were to grant users all this freedom,
0:38:40you would have a bunch of Safari instances all over the place. And I don't know, I don't know what,
0:38:48Of course, I don't know the answer. I don't know what Apple wants to do, but I want to ask you would you
0:38:54Do you think you would ever use for this kind of freedom if you were you know, if you were allowed to open?
0:39:02One version let's call it version or view because instance it sounds to developer, you know to
0:39:10Programmery to me
0:39:13Would you have a use for one view of?
0:39:16Twitter in one place and another view in some other place or would you prefer to
0:39:22have them side by side or would you prefer it all to have the choice of
0:39:26using them side by side or using them separately? What do you have something
0:39:33in mind when you think about this feature, Myke?
0:39:36So, all right, so definitely yes but most of my instances are document-based as
0:39:41you mentioned, right? So like two Google Docs, two pages, uh,
0:39:46documents, two numbers, spreadsheets, and sometimes they'll be together,
0:39:49but sometimes they'd be in different places. And that's like,
0:39:52that would work perfectly fine for me. You know,
0:39:54like treating each instance of a document being opened,
0:39:57like it's its own window. Like, do you know where that happens?
0:40:00That happens on the Mac.
0:40:01And this goes back to the beginning of the questions that you were asking.
0:40:06Like, you know, when we were talking about, it's like, oh,
0:40:08what is it going to be based on?
0:40:11I think the answer is none of the things that exist currently.
0:40:13Like this is part of marzipan in my mind, because
0:40:18what Apple would have to do to make these things match up
0:40:23is to provide the ability for an application
0:40:27to be fragmented into multiple instances, because that's how the Mac works.
0:40:31And then when you tie in this idea of like Apple doing this project
0:40:36called Sidecar, which is this sharing of screens.
0:40:40I think it's sharing of windows.
0:40:41So like you have a window on the Mac, you can put it on iOS, it just pops up.
0:40:45Right. And now you've got that window there,
0:40:47because I expect there to be this like synergy of these marzipan apps of
0:40:52windows being used in different ways.
0:40:56So on the Mac, they're like you can put them wherever you want.
0:40:59Right. Like imagine Safari tabs just for simplicity sake.
0:41:03You can pull them all apart and put them wherever you want.
0:41:05On iOS, you can break them up and put them next to each other or put them in
0:41:09different with other applications in different split view instances.
0:41:12But they're all separate windows.
0:41:14Right. So like that's kind of how I imagine it working.
0:41:18Now, when you come down to like, well, how does it work with closing them?
0:41:23One, don't worry about it.
0:41:24It's iOS, right?
0:41:26Like the system will does the system will take care of the potential risk
0:41:31of them being open, like memory issues.
0:41:33So that's not going to be like in other places, like that's going to be taken care of.
0:41:37And I'm sure there will probably be new gestures, right?
0:41:41Maybe the gesture of holding down on an app icon now will show you some kind of expose-like
0:41:47view of here's all of your instances of that application being open.
0:41:52Or it will be like what happens on the Mac, where if I have multiple Finder windows open
0:41:56or whatever, when I hit the Finder icon it just takes me to the one that I most recently
0:42:00used.
0:42:01find the other one I've got to go look for it. Like there are problems when you
0:42:07look at it like oh how does it work of iOS but these are accepted / solved
0:42:13problems on the Mac which is why I think what we're gonna see is something that
0:42:19really bridges the gap between these two operating systems when it comes to like
0:42:24this windowing nature on iPad?
0:42:26Mm-hmm. Yeah.
0:42:28Personally speaking,
0:42:30I hope there's
0:42:32going to be support
0:42:34for multiple modes
0:42:36of opening these views. Like,
0:42:38I want to be able to choose to have either
0:42:40tabs, side-by-side, or
0:42:42sort of replicate what Safari can do
0:42:44with its own split-screen mode.
0:42:46But also, I would love to
0:42:48compare
0:42:50the same app with multiple apps
0:42:52apps at the same time and sort of have multiple spaces.
0:42:57I feel like it would be a failure to not be able to do both.
0:43:00Yeah, and I hope that in doing this Apple sort of reconsiders what they've done with
0:43:07iOS 11 multitasking in that I would love to finally have a way to create my own templates
0:43:14for app spaces and to do something like I want to create a space and give it a name
0:43:21and sort of call it the writing space. And it's always got my text editor and Evernote, for example.
0:43:27And to say put one window here and another window there and then create a separate note taking
0:43:35space, which also has Evernote because multiple windows can be multiple places. So this ability
0:43:41to create my own spaces, my own favorite spaces. And I hope there's also going to be some kind of
0:43:47way to control this, especially from shortcuts. I would love to have a way from shortcuts to
0:43:56control quote-unquote "windows" and say "open this view in Ulysses" or "open this view in Safari"
0:44:03to be able to control these tabs or windows or whatever and automate them from shortcuts.
0:44:10And I also hope that developers will have a way to control how they can open views.
0:44:17Like, will they be able to offer, I don't know, buttons that say "Open this document in a separate view"
0:44:24or will it be like a system gesture that like ties into drag and drop or some other way?
0:44:29The actual implementation of this will be fascinating to see just how closer to the desktop metaphor Apple wants to get.
0:44:39or if they actually rethought the entire concept for touch.
0:44:44That would be interesting in just how open it will be.
0:44:46But also, the idea of these panels, of these cards, that is also mentioned in the 95 Mac report,
0:44:54they specifically call out this project called PanelKit.
0:45:00It was made by, and I'm gonna get his name wrong, Louis Dov.
0:45:06I'm not sure, I think it's Belgian, so I'm not sure how to pronounce that.
0:45:10He's working at Apple now. Yeah, of course. Well, you know, fun fact, he also made an open source
0:45:19terminal for iOS, so open term. Really, really good app. Anyway, he works at Apple now. So this idea
0:45:28that in iOS 13 there will be a way to detach these sort of like popovers, these panels,
0:45:36and detach them from the interface and make them float as little cards on screen and actually
0:45:44stack multiple cards with each other.
0:45:47Like pallets in Photoshop and stuff like that?
0:45:51Yeah, yeah, exactly like that.
0:45:54So whether it's like an inspector or a palette of tools, like this idea that you can detach
0:46:00them from their origin point, move them around, sort of like you can move around the picture-in-picture
0:46:07video player, that's how I'm imagining this thing, basically what PanelKit was, but with
0:46:14the ability to also stack them.
0:46:16And I assume to flick between those cards when they're stacked.
0:46:21I am actually in love with this idea already, just hearing about it.
0:46:25And I wonder if it is what I'm imagining it will be.
0:46:30This way of combining the freeform windowing approach with the simplicity of touch.
0:46:39Like, taking this idea of, you can have these little windows, these little palettes,
0:46:45palettes, but turning them in a system that is entirely based on multi-touch and the iOS
0:46:55design language.
0:46:56So they are interactive, you can throw them around and they bounce around the corners
0:47:01of the screen and they have realistic physics and then you can stack them and you can manipulate
0:47:06them.
0:47:07I'm in love with the idea already.
0:47:08So I'm imagining creativity apps like Pixelmator, for example, or Affinity, or more productivity
0:47:20apps like Pages or OmniGraffo or OmniFocus.
0:47:24Those apps that have rich, complex interfaces, that have multiple inspectors, multiple palettes.
0:47:30I can see how there may be ways to
0:47:34give you more power in the sense that you can show multiple inspectors at the
0:47:40same time,
0:47:40but also a way to quickly group them all together as
0:47:45floating panels.
0:47:46Well, it makes it really great for smaller screen devices, right?
0:47:51Because then you can have more tools on screen,
0:47:54but they're where you need them to be, but they're stacked up.
0:47:58So you just got to flick through the panels and you get what you need,
0:48:00which makes it great when you're like taking an application from a 27 inch
0:48:04iMac all the way down to an 11 inch iPad. Right.
0:48:09But then you can have a similar experience because now instead of like separating
0:48:13out all of your panels or your palettes in Pixelmator,
0:48:17you can still have all those tools available to you,
0:48:20like at your fingertips quite literally. But they're,
0:48:24they're stacked up on top of each other and there's,
0:48:27you can kind of move them around more freely than you have been able to.
0:48:30It's like one of my great frustrations with pixelmator on the iPad
0:48:34is I feel like I can never find the tools that I need, but I know they're there.
0:48:39And it's because they're hidden in these weird iOS.
0:48:42Well, I mean, I'm talking about like original pixelmator, not pixelmator photo,
0:48:47where they made it look like that iPhoto app.
0:48:50Right. So like, it's not even it doesn't even feel like typical iOS conventions today.
0:48:56Like you hit this button and then this window pops up with a bunch of tools in
0:48:59it and it's like super difficult to understand where things are, but it's
0:49:01still a great app on iOS, still very powerful, but it could be designed way
0:49:05better. Something like what the upcoming Photoshop is going to look like, right?
0:49:08Where they've shown it with panels, right?
0:49:10Like it's a Photoshop like interface.
0:49:13And there's a bunch of apps already that exist on iOS that are like that, like
0:49:18all those affinity apps and stuff.
0:49:19They have a version that they built themselves, right?
0:49:22of these like movable panels. Maybe they're using PanelKit, I don't know, or something
0:49:27like it. But it would be amazing to have stuff like that as a system convention, even more
0:49:33so if you could then possibly imagine this weird and wonderful world where you might
0:49:38even be able to take those panels and put them somewhere else. Who knows, right? We're
0:49:42in the wild west now.
0:49:44Something that I want to say before we talk about the next topics here. This idea that,
0:49:49know, the iPad has been around long enough for iPad purists to exist in the
0:49:57community and sort of these folks who are against any kind of
0:50:06idea where the iPad can become more powerful or complex than it is. And I
0:50:11think, of course, I end up on the complete opposite side of this spectrum. I'm all
0:50:17for the iPad becoming more like a more like a desktop computer in the sense of the kind of power that it gives to you not
0:50:24in the kind of complication that it comes with and so I hope that in doing all of this in
0:50:28Supporting multiple windows and in supporting, you know, detachable panels and floating carts, whatever it is
0:50:34I hope that Apple can and I fully believe that they can
0:50:38strike a good balance between
0:50:42giving you the power that was normally available only on a desktop computer, but done in a way that
0:50:51it doesn't force the iPad to be too complicated or too complex if you don't want it to be. Because
0:50:57one of the greatest strengths of the iPad right now is that you're not forced to use Split View,
0:51:02you're not forced to use Lightover. You can use iPad apps in full screen like they used to be when
0:51:07when the iPad came out 10 years ago,
0:51:09and the OS will never bother you.
0:51:12They will never say, "Oh no, but please use split view."
0:51:14No, it's not mandatory.
0:51:16You can just use an iPad in full screen all the time
0:51:18and it's fine.
0:51:19So I hope that--
0:51:20- I don't think they're getting rid of that.
0:51:21- No, me neither. - I really don't.
0:51:22I see your concern or the concern of other people.
0:51:26Like I know why people might think it,
0:51:27but like people that use the iPad a bunch
0:51:32still will want to and still do use things,
0:51:36use the device at this sort of time.
0:51:38It's like the fact that in the Mac
0:51:39you can have an app go full screen.
0:51:41There are times where it makes a lot of sense to do it.
0:51:43But yeah, I see why, I understand people's concern,
0:51:48but I think that it's right to push forward.
0:51:51And the reason I understand the concern is like,
0:51:54iOS 12 pushed a bunch of people away from the iPad.
0:51:59Right, or is it 11?
0:52:01Which one was it?
0:52:02- 11. - 11.
0:52:03- Sorry, yeah, 11 pushed a bunch of people away.
0:52:05because it got more complicated.
0:52:08And my hope really is that we see with iOS 13
0:52:14why this happened, right?
0:52:17That like, well really it should have been last year,
0:52:20it was supposed to be one year,
0:52:21and then the next year they advanced it,
0:52:22but they didn't for whatever reason,
0:52:24they wanted to move things around.
0:52:26So then when iOS 13 comes around,
0:52:28like, oh, I see why this works this way now,
0:52:32why multitasking is like this,
0:52:34because we need to have this vastly more split apart complex system to enable all of these
0:52:44windows to be moving around.
0:52:45You know what I mean?
0:52:46But I feel like maybe we just wait a little bit longer to get it.
0:52:52Yeah, well let's see.
0:52:55I want to quickly mention this idea of Sidecar as using the iPad as a display for the Mac.
0:53:02and I'm just gonna quote what's in the 95 Mac report.
0:53:06"The new feature called Sidecar internally
0:53:08"can be accessed via a simple menu.
0:53:10"This new menu will be opened by hovering
0:53:13"over the green maximize button in a Mac app window
0:53:16"for a split second.
0:53:17"The menu will have options for making the window
0:53:19"full screen, tiling and moving to external displays,
0:53:22"including the user's iPads and external displays
0:53:25"connected to the Mac."
0:53:28So this idea of you have a Mac,
0:53:32you have an iPad and you will be able to take one window
0:53:37and say, put this window on my iPad
0:53:40and use the iPad as a display.
0:53:41It's really fascinating to me because, you know,
0:53:44the, you know, a bunch of people say,
0:53:45oh, Apple is going for Luna Display.
0:53:47Luna Display is doomed.
0:53:48Apple wants to let you use the iPad
0:53:50as a full on external display for the Mac.
0:53:53I have a bunch of questions here.
0:53:54Main one being, is this just a continuity feature
0:53:58in that you could take one window at a time
0:54:01and put it on the iPad, or are they actually going for the full-on Luna display experience
0:54:07in that the iPad becomes a secondary display that you can use in extended desktop mode
0:54:14on Mac OS?
0:54:16And I have a feeling, reading through this report, that it'll be a simplified version,
0:54:21it'll be the first case of you take one window at a time and you put it on the iPad, which
0:54:28is an external display, but I'm skeptical of the fact that... will you be able to hover
0:54:36over to that display with the mouse and resize the window? Will you see the desktop underneath?
0:54:42Will you be able to put any window that you want on there? Will you be able to put multiple
0:54:47windows on the iPad's display? Personally, reading through this report, I believe that
0:54:53Apple wants to just let you take one window and sort of put it on the iPad. And that's
0:55:00it. But you will not be able to, I mean I would love it if it were possible, but I don't
0:55:05think Apple wants to give you this kind of experience.
0:55:09More to me, like that really good continuity demo.
0:55:13Yeah.
0:55:14Right? Where like, "Hey, you remember that thing continuity that we built? Well now it's
0:55:18like you take the exact thing you were doing and you just put it onto your iPad and you
0:55:22get up and walk away. Right.
0:55:24Like it just feels like something that's an advancement to that.
0:55:28I mean, if they did do this thing where you could use your iPad
0:55:32as an extra display, like Luna Display is amazing.
0:55:35But what Luna Display enables is the best thing.
0:55:37And if Apple finds some way to do that and it's really good,
0:55:40I mean, that will be great.
0:55:41Right. Like it will be incredible for most people to just be able to do it.
0:55:44But it seems unlikely.
0:55:47It just to me feels unlikely that that they would.
0:55:51I can't imagine Apple wanting to
0:55:55relegate an iPad to just being a display for a Mac.
0:55:59That feels like saying something about the device that I'm not sure they would
0:56:05want to say, right? Where it's like, yeah, the iPad's super powerful,
0:56:10but really it's just best if you use it as a second screen.
0:56:14You know what? I feel like it's not doing enough to
0:56:19show the power of the devices independently of each other, right?
0:56:22Like if you're just like, oh, this is just good as another display.
0:56:24That doesn't seem right to me, but I'm intrigued to find out.
0:56:28All right. There was more.
0:56:30There's more. But that's kind of like those things are all grouped together.
0:56:34And then there's a couple of other little items that we wanted to talk about.
0:56:37But let me thank our friends over at Pingdom for their support of this show.
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0:57:59So I wanted to very quickly mention one detail from the original 9to5Mac article.
0:58:05Better multilingual support for keyboards and dictation.
0:58:09Of course, I speak two languages. I've always won at Apple to get better at supporting multilingual features throughout iOS.
0:58:19iOS has offered, since iOS 10, multilingual support in the software keyboard.
0:58:25It's kind of counterintuitive the way that you enable the feature, but it works.
0:58:29Dictation does not support multiple languages at the same time.
0:58:35same time, Siri also does not support multiple languages at the same time.
0:58:40Google does, and I believe it is time for Apple to enable seamless recognition of
0:58:48multiple languages at the same time, both via dictation and Siri. This has been
0:58:54the dream of mine for three years now, just being able to talk to
0:58:58Siri either in Italian or in English. Right now I'm using Siri in English, but
0:59:04just because it's easier for work to take screenshots and all of that,
0:59:08also because the HomePod is not officially in Italy still. So a
0:59:13multilingual series would be fantastic. Let me tell you man, Gboards
0:59:18translate now. Have we spoken about this, that they added Google Translate to Gboard?
0:59:23You mentioned it. Oh my god, it works so well. You just type in what you
0:59:28need and then it immediately copies it to the clipboard and then
0:59:32just paste it in and if you then copy some text from iMessages a little paste button appears next
0:59:39to the translate thing so you just press it and it pastes the text in and just translates it back
0:59:43for you. It's incredible. It's so good. It's just one of those things I was like wow Google you did
0:59:52everything you possibly could for this right like they worked all the way up to the limits that
0:59:59they're allowed within the framework that they're in. It's kind of mind-blowing how
1:00:03well that works.
1:00:04Yeah. So, fingers crossed, I'm going to be able to talk to my assistant in two languages.
1:00:10We'll see. Last point before I share something interesting that I heard a few months ago.
1:00:18Ooh, ooh, see, it's not just 9 to 5 Mac. We have stuff too, you know.
1:00:22exclusive reveal. No, I want to talk about the 95-mic article also mentioned, just, you
1:00:31know, almost half-handedly, that new Reminders app coming to iOS and MacOS. Of course, I
1:00:39use Reminders, and I've been using Reminders for quite a long time at this point, I switched
1:00:44last year, but I use Reminders not via the Reminders app, because it's terrible right
1:00:50now, but via a Reminders client. So a third-party app called GoodTask, which is essentially a
1:00:57different interface for the Reminders framework. Because just like you can have different
1:01:02Calendar clients on iOS, you can have different Reminders clients. But I'm super happy to hear
1:01:09that Apple is working on a new Reminders app which has been unchanged since iOS 7, I think, so
1:01:18six years at this point. And I just hope that Apple is taking a look at apps like Good Task,
1:01:26in this case, because it's the power user version of Reminders. But also things, I think,
1:01:31you know, Culture Code, they did really interesting things with their app, you know,
1:01:38from a design standpoint, sort of embracing the iOS design language and also the way that they
1:01:44support external keyboards, but just the idea of just how you can visually...
1:01:52It's a very tactile task manager, how you can touch and drag and move things around.
1:01:57So, a few things I would like to see in reminders. Allow me to share a list with you,
1:02:02Myke, and our listeners. Of course, a redesign, because, I mean, have you seen
1:02:06Reminders, it's quite ugly, basically, and super slow to use.
1:02:14I want to make sure that Apple does, and I think you agree with me on this point,
1:02:20I want to see Apple do to Reminders what they did to Notes a few years ago, maybe even more.
1:02:26Because Notes, the design was already kind of OK.
1:02:30is in need of a, I think, better restructuring,
1:02:35but the idea of take an existing app,
1:02:38make it better for everybody.
1:02:40It can still be used as a simple app,
1:02:43but it's got so much functionality.
1:02:45If you go look for it, in Notes you can have tables
1:02:50and handwriting and links and attachments and cert,
1:02:53like all these features, they're there if you seek them,
1:02:57but if you don't, it's still simple and it's still Notes.
1:02:59So that kind of treatment for reminders would be nice.
1:03:04Integration with the calendar,
1:03:07because people are using calendar events
1:03:09and tasks at the same time.
1:03:11Tagging, I would love to be able to tag my reminders
1:03:15and create smart folders or saved searches,
1:03:18column, whatever you want,
1:03:20just in a way to organize my reminders
1:03:23like I can organize my files,
1:03:26because Apple already supports tagging in files.
1:03:29I would love to do the same reminders.
1:03:31File attachments, I should be able to attach a document
1:03:34using files to a reminder,
1:03:37because maybe I need to remind myself about a PDF
1:03:39or about an image, and right now there's no way
1:03:42to add attachments to reminders.
1:03:44Better collaboration for iCloud users.
1:03:48I wanna be able to share a reminders list with John
1:03:50and assign things to John,
1:03:52because I just love assigning things to John.
1:03:54It's what I do.
1:03:55I love it.
1:03:56to be able to do this using reminders.
1:03:59Better rescheduling.
1:04:03Right now, good luck if you wanna change the date
1:04:06of reminder in the Reminders app.
1:04:08Of course, good task makes it easy
1:04:10because it lets you create presets for dates
1:04:13and start dates and due dates.
1:04:16I wanna have faster rescheduling in reminders as well.
1:04:19There's so many things here.
1:04:22Natural language typing because, I mean, of course,
1:04:26when I'm on an iPad and I want to create a reminder,
1:04:28I should be able to say, you know,
1:04:30buy a new iPad tomorrow at 3 p.m.
1:04:32and have it be interpreted correctly.
1:04:35Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of really advanced
1:04:40and esoteric views, esoteric features
1:04:43that I would love to have.
1:04:44Like, were you aware of the fact, Myke,
1:04:47that on iOS you can create a reminder for any screen
1:04:52that you see in an app?
1:04:54You can create a reminder for an address.
1:04:56- I remember this.
1:04:57This was introduced ages ago, right?
1:04:59Where you can ask Siri.
1:05:01- Remind me about this.
1:05:03And this, this portion of the command,
1:05:07that can be anything.
1:05:08It can be a photo.
1:05:09It can be a location in maps.
1:05:12It can be a website.
1:05:14The problem is this is only possible
1:05:17if you do this via voice.
1:05:18That you gotta summon Siri and talk to Siri
1:05:21to create these special reminders.
1:05:23So a way to do this without Siri,
1:05:25to create reminders for anything.
1:05:27Reminders for app content is the best way
1:05:31that I can describe it.
1:05:32Yeah, and really, I would love to see finally, I guess,
1:05:38integration between notes and reminders.
1:05:40And you may ask how.
1:05:42So I will point you to this teaser
1:05:45that the folks at Agenda have released this week.
1:05:48Agenda is a very peculiar note-taking app
1:05:50that allows you to structure your notes on a timeline,
1:05:53basically, they're bringing in reminders integration
1:05:56in the future.
1:05:57And what they showed in the video is what basically
1:06:00I've been dreaming for ages,
1:06:02and that I actually built myself last year
1:06:04using JavaScript in drafts, almost,
1:06:08the idea of you're typing in your notes,
1:06:12and at some point in any line of text,
1:06:16you can say, create a reminder for this.
1:06:18Any line of text can become a reminder
1:06:21that is linked to the Reminders app,
1:06:24which is also linked to that line of text.
1:06:27So this idea of combining a note,
1:06:30any point of a note with a reminder, that is fascinating.
1:06:34And you should watch the teaser video
1:06:36that the agenda folks are doing.
1:06:37I would love to see Apple doing the same
1:06:39between notes and reminders.
1:06:40But again, this is more esoteric, advanced feature.
1:06:43Honestly, I would be happy with the redesign, tagging,
1:06:47and some power user features.
1:06:50I mean, at this point, anything would be better than what Reminders currently is.
1:06:53So.
1:06:54I want Apple to do to Reminders what they did to Notes.
1:06:59Yeah.
1:07:01Because if like they can make Reminders as competent a to-do
1:07:05manager as they made Notes a note-taking application
1:07:09when they switched in, what was it like, 9, iOS 9.
1:07:12I would switch to Reminders.
1:07:15Like if they can just give like that same kind of level of features
1:07:19and reliability, then that's all I need, right?
1:07:23Like I don't need a ton of stuff.
1:07:26And then I would also then gain the system benefits.
1:07:29I'm keen to see what they do there
1:07:31and like how close do they get it to something like that?
1:07:34Or do they just really kind of give a refresh to reminders
1:07:39because that will obviously be one of the Marzipan apps.
1:07:42I think any app on the Mac that looks like an iOS app
1:07:46will be the first ones to move, you know,
1:07:48notes, reminders, stuff like that, which were originally iOS apps that they brought back
1:07:53to the Mac, right? Now they're going to bring them back to the Mars Japan or something,
1:07:57I don't know, back to the future, something like that. Let's do a connected exclusive.
1:08:03Yeah, so I want to go on the record with this because it's the season of rumors and it's
1:08:10something that I heard from a couple of people a few months ago and I kind of, you know,
1:08:17I wrote it off as like, I don't know about this.
1:08:21But then I kept, I still thinking about it
1:08:26and it's always in the back of my mind
1:08:28and with this idea of the iPad becoming more powerful
1:08:31and more like a desktop computer
1:08:34and could be interesting.
1:08:36So a few months ago, a couple of people
1:08:39sort of mentioned to me just casually,
1:08:42wouldn't it be funny if you could have
1:08:44a mouse cursor on the iPad?
1:08:46but as an accessibility feature.
1:08:50And I thought that was a fascinating idea.
1:08:55And my understanding of these conversations
1:08:58was making, enabling mouse support on the iPad
1:09:03as part of the assistive touch framework
1:09:08of the accessibility features of iOS.
1:09:10So assistive touch would be the little onscreen panel
1:09:13that you get and that you can customize.
1:09:15It's the virtual home button that people were using for ages,
1:09:20back when the iPhones had physical home buttons,
1:09:23and people that didn't want to break the home button,
1:09:25or that had actually broken the button,
1:09:28will use the virtual one.
1:09:30And when you tap it, it expands and shows you features
1:09:32that you can enable via touch,
1:09:34like show me notification center, but without swiping.
1:09:36So that kind of idea.
1:09:37So this idea of you plug in a mouse and you get a cursor,
1:09:44and you get a cursor that somehow is tied to accessibility, is an accessibility feature.
1:09:51And I thought that was interesting and just for fun I actually bought a USB mouse from
1:09:56Amazon to try it. I don't know, maybe...
1:10:00There may have been an afternoon when me and Federico were both plugging many random mice
1:10:05into our iPads.
1:10:07Yes, because when Apple did, at the beginning of the year, the 12.2 beta, I thought maybe
1:10:13it's hidden in this beta as an accessibility feature, but it was not. But then I started doing some research
1:10:20around this idea of assistive touch and mouse cursors, and I learned that actually
1:10:27it is already possible if you have the right
1:10:31accessibility hardware to have
1:10:34some kind of cursor on iOS.
1:10:40There's a specialized accessibility hardware that you can buy and you
1:10:45If you have physical or other kinds of motor impairments
1:10:49When you plug it into an iOS device you get this little
1:10:52Black dot that you can control and it moves on screen like a mouse cursor would move
1:10:59This is already possible and has been possible for years. There's lots of videos on YouTube
1:11:04There's lots of it. You know, they're usually like joysticks or trackballs
1:11:09you know, different designs for different kinds of accessibility needs. So this is already possible.
1:11:15And then I came across this device called the Amaneo BTI, which promised to be, and it was,
1:11:24you know, this company, this Amaneo company, they showed this device at various trade shows
1:11:32for accessibility hardware, it promised to be an adapter that lets you use any USB mouse with your
1:11:41iPad. And I got really excited when I discovered this, and so I got in touch with a reseller with
1:11:47a UK-based company that had a teaser page for the Amana LBTI, and that page, I think it was December,
1:11:54it mentioned "available early 2019". I was like "oh", so I was like all connecting the dots, sort of
1:12:00Charlie Day meme situation like, "See? It's USB mouse support is coming to the iPad. Here's
1:12:06this company." But then I got in touch with this company and they were like, "Yeah, we're
1:12:10still not available. It may become available in early 2019." But then I realized this Amaneo
1:12:19BTI thing will tie in what's already possible for accessibility hardware, like joysticks
1:12:29or trackballs. It'll just act as an adapter. But what I heard was something different.
1:12:35What I heard was that without adapters, you will be able to use any USB mouse on your
1:12:42iPad but as an accessibility device. And I think that kind of makes sense. The
1:12:49idea of without having to buy specialized hardware, without having to
1:12:54buy a joystick or an adapter, the iPad Pro has a USB-C port, so just plug in a
1:13:01USB mouse and if you have physical impairments, if you have any other kinds
1:13:06of motor impairments, just use the USB mouse in accessibility mode. And it
1:13:12It wouldn't be, of course, the first time that Apple is enabling features
1:13:16under the catch-all umbrella of accessibility.
1:13:19Like, it totally would not surprise me
1:13:22if mouse support eventually comes to the iPad,
1:13:26but it's presented as an accessibility thing.
1:13:28Like, that would make total sense to me
1:13:30because of the message that Apple...
1:13:32You know, Apple doesn't want to say,
1:13:34"Well, the only way to use the iPad as a PC replacement
1:13:36is to actually plug in a mouse,"
1:13:38But they would say, if you need to have a different kind of input mechanism,
1:13:46you can now use any USB-C mouse as an accessibility device.
1:13:50That will make a lot of sense to me.
1:13:52So it was something that I heard months ago.
1:13:56I don't know if it'll happen.
1:14:00It's fascinating to think about.
1:14:01And again, as an accessibility thing, I think it will make a lot of sense to me.
1:14:07I would like it. I would get great use out of it.
1:14:11Right? Like it's, I've wanted trackpad support, um,
1:14:14mouse support on the iPad for a while for ergonomic reasons, which,
1:14:19you know, I think is a, uh, that is even in my opinion,
1:14:24like a perfectly valid use of accessibility is ergonomics.
1:14:28Like if you are someone like me who struggles with, uh,
1:14:31RSI issues and stuff like that, it would,
1:14:35it would make things a lot easier for me if I was able to,
1:14:39even more frequently than I already can with the iPad,
1:14:42also use another input device,
1:14:44that would be amazing for me.
1:14:46So I hope that this is gonna come to pass.
1:14:50I think the fact that all of the building blocks
1:14:52are already there makes it easier.
1:14:54- Yeah. - Right, but I mean,
1:14:55one is just AssistiveTouch in general,
1:14:57but two, the fact that AssistiveTouch can be manipulated
1:15:01to be used with these devices,
1:15:03It feels like where there's smoke, there's fire kind of thing.
1:15:07The fact that this stuff already exists and then you'd heard about the potential
1:15:10for them to expand it out to kind of be available no matter what you plug in.
1:15:15That is a that feels like a very possible and tantalizing idea to me.
1:15:20It feels very possible because if it's already possible with special hardware.
1:15:26Because I'm assuming that Apple's allowing that, right?
1:15:29Like that could happen otherwise, right?
1:15:32Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apple is allowing that and you need to, you know, it's a...
1:15:35It's a whole thing.
1:15:36You can buy all kinds of accessories they use. There's demos on YouTube, you know.
1:15:42I saw a beautiful, like, excellent demo of a person that was using the complete suit of accessibility features,
1:15:51like voiceover, and this person was in a wheelchair and they were using a joystick to control the iPhone,
1:15:58the iPhone's interface using this black dot on screen that was acting like a cursor.
1:16:02It was really like a testament to the accessibility features on iOS.
1:16:06And I think why not make it even more inclusive
1:16:10by saying you don't need to buy specific and
1:16:14expensive hardware, just plug in a USB mouse. And if you want to use this special
1:16:18accessibility mode that already exists, now you can
1:16:22use your own hardware instead of buying specific adapters. That would make a lot of sense, actually.
1:16:26actually. Yeah I think that that would be great. We'll see. Alright is there anything
1:16:32more that you wanted to cover on this stuff? Not this stuff, I have a bunch of them. There's
1:16:38more to come, we're gonna keep talking about iOS 13 but we wanted to close the show with
1:16:46a gallery of hardware that I've been testing. Mail time here on connected, Federica's got
1:16:52a bunch of stuff. Actually let me talk about one of my favorite mail time kind of situations
1:17:00because I want to talk about Moo, the online print and design company. Moo offers a variety
1:17:05of premium print products including business cards, postcards, notebooks and more and they
1:17:10deliver to happy customers all over the world. Networking is an important part of any career
1:17:14whether you're a designer, a developer, a novelist or a CEO and you don't want to get
1:17:18caught out by not having a business card at that important moment. You don't have to like
1:17:22pick up a napkin and write down your email address on it. You can be prepared and show
1:17:27your creativity by having your business cards made with Moo.
1:17:30Great design is at the heart of what Moo does and there's nothing like a slick well made
1:17:33business card, especially when you get all of the wonderful options that Moo have like
1:17:37gold foiling or spot gloss which will allow your artwork to really stand out. They have
1:17:42thick textured paper as well which I really love. I have cards made from them that are
1:17:48two cards sandwiched with something in the middle so you can get a bit of colour pop
1:17:51through I really love them. Super easy to design and order and they have all these little
1:17:56special extra touches as well. It's really great to see your hard work on screen like
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1:18:18or postcards. The notebooks, by the way, I love them. They're in softcover and hardcover.
1:18:23They've done some really cool things if you're a notebook nerd like me. But one of them that
1:18:27I'll explain is they have a hardcover notebook. And when you open the hardcover, the actual
1:18:33cover is not on the front stuck to the page. So it opens out completely flat, which means
1:18:39the book can go completely flat. It's really impressive the way that they do it. And it
1:18:44It means that you don't have that awkward "oh the first page is slightly hovering in
1:18:49the air" they do a really good job with their stuff.
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1:19:1915. Our thanks to Moo for their support of this show and all of Relay FM. Moo, let's
1:19:24get physical.
1:19:27So what have you, what's going on over there? What have you been up to?
1:19:31So I've been receiving review units for everything, basically. It's the season of iPad, accessories,
1:19:41and wireless charging accessories. So, yeah, I've been testing a few different things.
1:19:48Let's start from iPad keyboards. The Logitech sent me a review unit for this Linfoglio Pro,
1:19:57which is the new iPad Pro case and keyboard that they announced a few weeks ago. I like
1:20:04Honestly. It's the classic Logitech keyboard. It's got the classic feel of
1:20:11the Logitech keys, from the old Logitech Create line. It's standard
1:20:18Logitech keyboard feel, but it's designed for the new iPad Pro, and it's
1:20:25designed for the fact that you can hold the pencil together with the iPad.
1:20:30So, the keyboard itself is backlit, which is nice. It's got media keys to control music playback and go back to the home screen.
1:20:40It does not have a Siri key, unlike another keyboard that I will mention shortly.
1:20:46The keys feel good, they are consistent, as I mentioned, with previous Logitech keyboards.
1:20:53what I really like about this one is the magnetic system that allows you to place
1:21:02the iPad on this ridge that is in front of the keyboard to create
1:21:10a typing angle and to sort of create a kickstand in the back of the iPad.
1:21:13But when you connect the keyboard, when you attach the iPad magnetically,
1:21:19only then does the keyboard turn on Bluetooth so that it pairs to the iPad.
1:21:25And it's sort of a way to fake the kind of experience that you get with the smart connector,
1:21:29in that the keyboard becomes active only when you need it,
1:21:35only when the iPad is ready in typing mode.
1:21:38And it's sort of like that, and it works really nicely, because to me it seems faster than
1:21:47traditional Bluetooth pairing with other Bluetooth keyboards because the
1:21:52the first action is not you pressing a key on the keyboard to say "hey wake up
1:21:57and pair to the iPad again" you just need to place the iPad in typing mode and it
1:22:03starts paying. That is clever. It's really well done. That is clever. It's less weird than like
1:22:08space space space space space. Oh there we go. I noticed yesterday that there is
1:22:15There is a small ridge in the back of the cover when it becomes a kickstand that sort of allows you to choose between two different typing angles.
1:22:26I'm not sure if this is by design, I'm not sure if it is on the webpage, but if you pay attention there's a plastic ridge that if you move it just right you create a different, either steep or more gentle viewing angle. So that's nice.
1:22:42They say type mode, sketch mode, read mode.
1:22:45- Yeah, that's a different thing.
1:22:46- Yeah, that's not it.
1:22:47I can't see anything that suggests--
1:22:52- Maybe it's just a byproduct of the fact
1:22:56that the cover can be folded,
1:22:58and therefore there's this plastic region,
1:23:00and if you place the iPad just right,
1:23:03the angle changes lightly,
1:23:06but it's a welcome difference.
1:23:09What I like about this keyboard
1:23:11is that it's got both a globe key and a keyboard key.
1:23:16So the keyboard key, it lets you quote unquote
1:23:19eject the software keyboard so that you can see
1:23:22the software keyboard while the iPad is still paired
1:23:25with the physical one.
1:23:26Why would you wanna do this?
1:23:28To use custom keyboards on screen, the software ones.
1:23:31So if you have a custom keyboard,
1:23:32you can eject the keyboard and you can press the globe key
1:23:37on your Logitech keyboard multiple times
1:23:40until you cycle through all of your keyboards and you reach the custom one that you want to use.
1:23:44So this combination of globe and keyboard key, if you like custom keyboards, quite useful.
1:23:50It's got USB-C support, so you can charge it directly from the iPad if you want. You can use a cable and
1:23:58charge the keyboard from the iPad because everything is USB-C.
1:24:02I really like the special
1:24:05protective flap for the Apple Pencil when everything is closed. It works as advertised,
1:24:10it makes a nice clicking sound when you place the flap on top of the pencil. It's really well done and
1:24:18this part of the case can also be sort of used as
1:24:25as a kickstand for touch mode,
1:24:29but it's again not by design and it's not stable.
1:24:34But it works as advertised for protecting the pencil.
1:24:39And finally I want to say that this keyboard works well on your lap.
1:24:44It's not just for desk usage, it definitely works well on your lap.
1:24:48It's got a solid base, the keyboard is rigid enough and feels good to use as an actual laptop.
1:24:55But of course it doesn't have a customizable viewing angle, you cannot freely adjust the viewing angle.
1:25:02something that you can do, Myke, on the bridge keyboard, which I just got today.
1:25:07Don't talk to me, get out. I don't want to speak to you anymore. Leave me alone.
1:25:11A final production unit.
1:25:12Ugh, I'm so jealous.
1:25:14I hope to be able to write about this on MacStory soon. I just got it a couple of hours ago.
1:25:19I'm looking at it right now. I'm touching it right now. See? It's a bridge keyboard.
1:25:25You could be lying. I don't know. You got it.
1:25:28I sent you a picture. Come on.
1:25:30- I know, but I'm building the audio world here.
1:25:33There's nothing I can do about that.
1:25:35- It's exactly what I expected.
1:25:37It's a bridge keyboard optimized for the iPad Pro
1:25:39with these new hinges that adapt
1:25:41to the rounded edges of the iPad Pro.
1:25:44It comes with the optional back cover
1:25:47that attaches to the back of the iPad.
1:25:49It's really nice.
1:25:52It's a bridge keyboard.
1:25:53I think it's got a different feel than the previous keys.
1:25:56The texture of the keys is more,
1:25:59is smoother and feels different to me. The big difference here from the Logitech keyboard,
1:26:04it doesn't have a globe icon, but it's got a Siri key. So you can press and hold to use Siri,
1:26:12either in voice or type to Siri mode, depending on your preferences. And now you have settings,
1:26:17so this one has got Siri, it's backlit, it feels like a bridge keyboard. It's really nice,
1:26:22it's space grey, looks beautiful with the iPad. The hinges, they feel good to me so far.
1:26:28I want to see if they hold up well over time. It's very different from other keyboards in that
1:26:38it's got this huge palm rest area where on a laptop that's where the trackpad would be.
1:26:46Here you don't have a trackpad so it's a huge empty area where you can just rest your wrists
1:26:53when using the keyboard.
1:26:54And also it supports a media mode.
1:26:58If you wanna watch a movie,
1:26:59you can just flip the iPad with the screen facing out.
1:27:03So with the back of the iPad facing the keyboard,
1:27:07and yeah, you can watch a movie
1:27:10and adjust the viewing angle of the screen.
1:27:12And you can actually use the software keyboard in this mode,
1:27:16but I tried, and if you try to type on the iPad screen
1:27:21In Media Mode, everything wiggles, because you're not supposed to keep touching the screen all the time.
1:27:28With the Bridge keyboard, you're supposed to use the physical keyboard.
1:27:30But it's possible, and it looks kinda crazy when it's in that mode.
1:27:35But I will let you know how this goes, but so far it's a Bridge keyboard, and it's for the new iPad Pro.
1:27:41So, it looks great.
1:27:43And I will probably have an article on Max Stories in the next few days, if I can get any more writing done.
1:27:50If you have any questions, Myke, let me know.
1:27:53I just want it, really.
1:27:56Okay.
1:27:57I will send you mine.
1:27:58No, you won't, you liar.
1:28:00No, I won't.
1:28:02Finally, I've been also thanks to Nomad
1:28:07for sending me review units of their AirPods case
1:28:12and the base station with Apple Watch support.
1:28:16So the base station is the wireless charging mat
1:28:19that's got multiple Qi coils to charge multiple Qi devices
1:28:24at the same time, but also an Apple Watch dock,
1:28:26an MI5 certified Apple Watch dock.
1:28:28- This seems to have been like one of the key products
1:28:32that people were like, "Oh, I'll get this instead then."
1:28:35- Yeah, and it confirms, at least to me,
1:28:39just how much I would have liked AirPower
1:28:42if it actually ever came out.
1:28:44I think it's amazing that, you know,
1:28:47I put one on my nightstand,
1:28:49I put one on my desk.
1:28:51It's awesome that before I go to sleep,
1:28:53I can place my iPhone, I can place my AirPods,
1:28:56and I can place the watch on the same accessory.
1:28:59And everything charges at the same time.
1:29:01There's small LEDs that tell you whether it's charging
1:29:04or whether charging is complete.
1:29:06It works well.
1:29:09It's got the 10-watt Qi charging speed,
1:29:13and it looks great because it's very elegant.
1:29:15It's got this black leather pad, feels solid, it's not cheap at all, it feels like a premium accessory because it is.
1:29:26And I guess the only downside would be that placing the AirPods with the wireless charging case works perfectly.
1:29:34placing the iPhone, at least with the smart battery case, which I keep on my
1:29:41iPhone all the time, requires a bit of attention. You gotta be careful with the
1:29:45placement of the iPhone. So I'm getting used to that, but placing the
1:29:50AirPods is more forgiving. But I think it's the idea of
1:29:56putting all of your Apple devices, iPhone, AirPods and Apple Watch
1:30:00on the same accessory, it's great. I love it. So it works really well. And the AirPods
1:30:09case that they sent me, I'm not sure if I'm going to keep them. I think it's a leather
1:30:13case to protect your AirPods case. It supports wireless charging, even though the leather
1:30:20gets kind of warm. But that's also true for iPhones with leather cases when you use wireless
1:30:26charging.
1:30:27I like that.
1:30:28The warm leather mic.
1:30:29No, it's not that I don't like warm leather, I don't like that it heats up.
1:30:33The heating up is always concerning to me.
1:30:36Yeah, so but this leather case around my AirPods case feels a little too much.
1:30:44And I'll probably use it for when I'm taking the AirPods to the beach, like when I don't want them to get dirty.
1:30:51That makes it sound like you take them out on nice days, you know?
1:30:54Like, "Come on AirPods, let's go to the beach today."
1:30:56- Let's go for a walk. - You've been nice. You've been well behaved.
1:30:59Yeah. When I take the AirPods to the beach because they deserve...
1:31:03- A break. - You know, a break.
1:31:05Yeah, probably just for protective reasons.
1:31:09You know, I could use a case because I don't want my AirPods case to get all scratched up and dirty like the original one did.
1:31:18- Does that really bother you, though? - Oh, it does. Yeah.
1:31:22- Okay. - Yeah.
1:31:24I'm trying to be extra careful,
1:31:26like I'm cleaning my AirPods every day,
1:31:28I'm cleaning the case every day,
1:31:29because I really dislike what the first one looks like.
1:31:31- It feels impossible to clean AirPods
1:31:34to the level that everybody,
1:31:35like that you would want them to be cleaned, right?
1:31:37Like it just feels like you have them for two minutes
1:31:40and you're never gonna get them back to how it was before.
1:31:42- Yeah, yeah.
1:31:44So that's about it for all the things
1:31:47that I've been testing, multiple keyboards,
1:31:49chargers, AirPods case, lots of writing to do.
1:31:55If you want to find links to the stuff that we've spoken about today, you can go to relay.fm/connected/239.
1:32:02I want to thank again our wonderful sponsors, Moo, Pingdom and Squarespace. But of course,
1:32:07to you for listening, that's the most important thing. If you want to find Federico online,
1:32:10you can go to maxstories.net where you find a lot of wonderful coverage this week about
1:32:14the 10 year anniversary and a bunch of other articles. We spoke about the Calzones review
1:32:19and there's gonna be some, I know you're gonna post some other stuff, you said you wanted
1:32:22to maybe write something about the bridge keyboard so you want to go over and check
1:32:26all that stuff out. But Federico will always share this stuff online, he's @Vitiici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.
1:32:31I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E, Steven is @ismh, send, what should we have people send Steven?
1:32:38What would be a good... Riddles! Riddles, yes, just tweet @ismh, your favorite riddle
1:32:48that sounds like that feels like it'll be fun for him to go through to give him some just some
1:32:54some work yeah and and uh riddles that's what he needs so do that
1:33:00uh we'll be back next week until then say goodbye federico
1:33:05arriba de rchi what do i do now say adios oh adios