0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02- From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 231.
0:00:13It is made possible this week by our sponsors,
0:00:15Pingdom, Luna Display, and Care/Of.
0:00:19I'm your host, Steven Hackett, and this is an odd episode,
0:00:21so let me introduce to you my friend and yours,
0:00:25Michael Hurley.
0:00:26- The year of Myke has officially begun.
0:00:29Now that I've got justice, the justice that I deserved, and here I am, as introduced first.
0:00:36I'm now going to begin my 90 minute monologue as part of my introduction that I prepared
0:00:41this week.
0:00:42I was born in 1988 in a small town... no, it's done now.
0:00:46Please continue.
0:00:47I will listen to this.
0:00:49I don't have it prepared.
0:00:50I'll prepare it for my next episode.
0:00:53Okay.
0:00:54And we have Federico here as well.
0:00:57Hello.
0:00:58Hi.
0:00:59it. Every number is an even number because 231 divided by 2 is 115.5.
0:01:06I think you understand even numbers. He cheated in math class, remember?
0:01:12I don't know. But yeah, it's fine, you know, this new rule system.
0:01:21It's fair.
0:01:23If Myke wanted it, so, you know, he's happy.
0:01:28It's fair is what it is. Fair. Fair is such an overused term. But yeah, I will accept it.
0:01:35Okay, I'm glad we got that cleared up. We have a bunch of follow up this week. It goes on and on
0:01:43and on. The Apple Enterprise certificate system is still completely broken in every way. 9to5 Mac
0:01:51reported this on last week. The Verge reported on it, I think yesterday or today, like shocked
0:01:56that people install hacked apps on their phone.
0:01:59I guess the moral of the story is,
0:02:01this is like still super, super broken.
0:02:05- Yeah, we've sort of hinted at the fact
0:02:08that there have been for several years now
0:02:12like these third-party app stores
0:02:15that allowed you to install.
0:02:17I mentioned tweaked versions of apps
0:02:20like Spotify without ads or Instagram
0:02:24with certain enhancements that were possible only on general broken devices.
0:02:28And I think Bloomberg also did a report on this and they mentioned the service that I was thinking of.
0:02:34It's called TweakBox and it's part of this series of third-party alternative
0:02:40quote-unquote app stores that allow you to install either modified versions of apps or just hacked,
0:02:47like the cracked copies of apps.
0:02:50This reminds me of the fact that years ago before,
0:02:55you know, when jailbreaking on iPhone used to be more of a common thing,
0:02:59like, you guys remember there were like tools that you could download
0:03:04on your computer and they would jailbreak your device with one click.
0:03:07Yeah, I jail broke some stuff in the past, like iPod touches and stuff.
0:03:11Yeah. And I would often like when jailbreaking was easy,
0:03:14I would often find on my friends' home screens
0:03:17this third-party app store that I don't think it exists anymore. It was called Installus,
0:03:25and it was a way to install pirated copies of games. And my friends were crazy for this
0:03:32illegal app store, but it used to be so common. And it feels like, to an extent, this enterprise
0:03:38certificate deal is sort of like the new jailbreaking for a lot of people. It's a way to get around
0:03:45the App Store and paying for software, using in this case, it's even more
0:03:51-egregious. -So easy to do.
0:03:53Because it's an officially sanctioned tool that is available on iOS.
0:03:58I mean, clearly at this point, right, we're talking about this every week
0:04:04because TechCrunch hit on an absolute goldmine of reporting.
0:04:08And now everyone's jumping on the bandwagon.
0:04:10Right. So like everyone's trying to write their piece now about the
0:04:15enterprise saying, and I'm not saying that it's not valid, especially because
0:04:17new things keep coming out.
0:04:19But like, this feels like a story that's going to keep popping up for a little
0:04:23while. And/or even if it goes away, everyone now has like an opinion
0:04:28about this enterprise stuff.
0:04:30And it means probably more people are going to try and get hacked apps because
0:04:34now they might know that it exists when they didn't before.
0:04:37But every now and then you just see these things pop up.
0:04:40They're like, someone gets this big story and then people will start digging into
0:04:43Like, as you imagine in newsrooms across the globe, what is our story about the Enterprise
0:04:50certificates, right?
0:04:51And then someone has to try and write a story about it, which is why it's now all over the
0:04:56place.
0:04:57And they just, these stories just keep popping up.
0:05:01It still feels like our conversation from last week holds up that there's some sort
0:05:05of reckoning coming for this system.
0:05:08It's gonna go through some changes.
0:05:11We also spoke about the report concerning Apple's upcoming
0:05:16texture-powered news magazine website thing
0:05:20through Apple News.
0:05:21The story was that Apple had asked publishers
0:05:24for 50% of the revenue generated
0:05:27through the subscriptions in Apple News.
0:05:29And after we recorded, Recode had an article
0:05:32of putting some more detail into this.
0:05:35And basically the headline here is that
0:05:38Apple does actually have potentially quite a few organizations and publications signed
0:05:43up for this because they would rather have a small percentage of a big number than a
0:05:47big chunk of a small number.
0:05:50When as ever make it up in scale, that's never failed, but it seems like some people are
0:05:55going to go for it with this.
0:05:57This may not be quite as dire as it seemed when they launched this thing.
0:06:01I think there will be more people there than we anticipated.
0:06:04Yeah, I think it's a good set of points that Peter Kafka makes in this article, but I think
0:06:13even he says that you're still not going to get the huge publishers, right? It's very
0:06:18unlikely that the big newspapers are going to go for this, but as we were talking about
0:06:22before, this is clearly a method for magazines, websites, newspapers that were not making
0:06:29a ton of money before to make some, but that still kind of leaves it in a situation of
0:06:35is the service going to be compelling enough? Is it going to have enough of what people
0:06:39want to read that they would pay money for it? That I think remains to be seen and we'll
0:06:46find out next month.
0:06:47Yeah, and it feels like something that will be more popular among publishers that don't
0:06:56have an important presence on the web or don't have maybe the resources to commit to building
0:07:04up a website with subscriptions and paywalls, like if you're a magazine and you sort of
0:07:08have a website but it's not this great experience and you don't have paywalls on the web, then
0:07:15I guess using Apple News and embracing Apple News on Apple's terms makes sense. But again,
0:07:20I remain convinced, I agree with Myke, if you're the Wall Street Journal all the times,
0:07:25would you give up the revenue that you can get on your website because you have the whole
0:07:30infrastructure already in place. So I guess we'll see the likes of like sport magazines
0:07:35or other publications that don't have such a strong web component. I want to see if there
0:07:43will be any surprises, like maybe actually the times will be on Apple News. I strongly
0:07:48doubt it myself, but we'll see what happens.
0:07:51I mean, we could be a month away from this, right, if that March event is really on the
0:07:57books.
0:07:59We do need to talk about maybe the highlight of last week of Team San Jose.
0:08:04Remember this?
0:08:05This is how MacRumors discovered when WBC may be, and we thought that Team San Jose
0:08:12was a bad codename.
0:08:13Well, it turns out it's just a regular bad name.
0:08:16So listen to Robert Synthesin.
0:08:18Team San Jose is the name of the city's convention and visitor bureau that is in charge of booking
0:08:26these events and publicizing them.
0:08:28They apparently run the city-owned venues like the convention center.
0:08:32So not a code name, just sort of a weird marketing brand for the city of San Jose that they should
0:08:38workshop more.
0:08:39But they even have a website.
0:08:41You can go read it.
0:08:42It's Team San Jose, all the way I guess.
0:08:46But this makes it kind of worse, right?
0:08:48Because this wasn't Apple messing up.
0:08:51This was Apple having to rely on a company
0:08:53because they clearly are not allowed to book these venues
0:08:57without the involvement of Team San Jose.
0:08:59Which is actually like-- they are like a public-private thing.
0:09:03So relying on the city or something partially funded
0:09:06by the city is not great.
0:09:09I just wanted to let you know that Team San Jose has DMAP
0:09:11certification, which is the destination marketing
0:09:14accreditation program, DMAP.
0:09:16an independent international body defining quality and performance issues in destination marketing
0:09:20and recognizing DMOs that meet or exceed industry standards.
0:09:25So you got the sweet, sweet DMAP program approved, you know, Team San Jose all the way.
0:09:31Good job.
0:09:32I was thinking about not attending San Jose this year if they didn't have DMAP certification by now, so I'm pleased.
0:09:37No, no, they do, they have DMAP, so it's safe to go.
0:09:40If you're a DMAP aficionado, it's safe to go.
0:09:44I like how they explain what DMAP means, but then they jump into DMO, which is destination
0:09:52marketing organization, but they don't explain that until later.
0:09:56There's also DMAI, which is when AI gets involved.
0:10:02That's the future of the DM programs.
0:10:05And they explain that, but then they don't use it again.
0:10:08This is a very sloppy use of acronyms, San Jose.
0:10:12Because people that don't know the acronyms shouldn't really be on this website. Let's
0:10:17be honest. It's not meant for us.
0:10:19It's just poor use of acronyms. You gotta use it on first reference and then you don't
0:10:23give it if you don't ever use it again. I just don't.
0:10:26Also I wanted to let you know that there's a shop San Jose, which is another thing that
0:10:31exists. You can buy t-shirts with the San Jose logo. Hats. Yeah. Also stickers.
0:10:38some cool San Jose swag? Be the first to get the newest San Jose branded t-shirts, hoodies,
0:10:44hats and more. I feel like we should all buy these and we can roll into San Jose.
0:10:47You should put a San Jose sticker on your iPad, Myke.
0:10:51Okay. I don't think I want to pay for the shipping.
0:10:54Well, maybe you can pick it up in person at the Team San Jose office.
0:11:00Maybe I can. Maybe they have a big, big gift shop or something. I have a selection of follow-up
0:11:05items that I would like to submit to the group.
0:11:08Oh boy. Would you say a menu of follow up items?
0:11:11Yeah. So I'll tell you the more and then you can like choose what your favorite one.
0:11:14OK. OK.
0:11:16I would like to thank everybody who tried to help me on my Sonos related
0:11:19record player quest.
0:11:21I've got lots of suggestions.
0:11:22Pretty much every suggestion ended with what app shall I use?
0:11:26I was getting lots of people just plug it into an iPod touch.
0:11:29But the problem is always, OK, when I get there,
0:11:32how do I get the audio from the iPod touch from an audio in
0:11:37to the HomePod. And there's basically, and then there's like a bunch of other solutions,
0:11:42none of them are what I want. You can't leave that hanging, because then you're going to get
0:11:45feedback about that again. The answer was leave GarageBand running on the iPod touch,
0:11:50monitoring the input. That is untenable. It's untenable. That is an untenable solution. I'm
0:11:55not saying that it is I'm just saying that you can't leave that hanging or you're going to hear
0:11:58about GarageBand for another seven days. To be honest, I've gotten so many pieces of feedback
0:12:04about this, I'd completely forgotten about the GarageBand one because that was one of
0:12:08the first and then I spent the last week of my life reading these solutions.
0:12:13None of them, I genuinely am grateful for people trying to help me.
0:12:18This is nobody's fault except the technology that underlies everything.
0:12:23I've decided though that I will not be progressing any technology-focused route to solve this
0:12:27problem and I'm just going to buy some speakers.
0:12:30I like the people that just wrote into me, including Marco Arment, and just said,
0:12:35"You're not going to be happy with any of this.
0:12:37And by doing something technological, you're kind of ruining part of what makes a record player so much fun to own.
0:12:44So I'm going to go with the speaker root.
0:12:46It was a nice try, but that's that.
0:12:48That is done. That this door has been closed.
0:12:51I have been given the Tichi curse.
0:12:55My AirPods are now only getting about 60 to 90 minutes of battery life before I hear the sound.
0:13:00This was not happening a couple of weeks ago before we started talking about this, but now they are.
0:13:06I was on a phone call yesterday, 45 minutes in, whatever that little noise is, so that's unfortunate.
0:13:12So it's happening to me now too. I am a devout Gboard user, have been for a long time, I absolutely love it.
0:13:19The autocorrect works well for me, I like the swipe typing and all the emoji search and stuff is brilliant.
0:13:24They just added haptic feedback when you tap on keys.
0:13:29I love this. You don't have to.
0:13:31It's the thing you have to turn on. It's off by default.
0:13:34I turned it on and I really, really like it.
0:13:37I like the way it feels.
0:13:38So that's something it's just another great feature that Gboard has.
0:13:41And finally, I scratched my screen protector.
0:13:45Oh, your paper thing?
0:13:47Yeah, like I got like a deep like gouge into it.
0:13:50What did you do?
0:13:52I don't know what I did,
0:13:54But it's scratched. At this point, I'm just trying to hang on.
0:13:58I still like the way it feels, but I'm getting more frustrated with it.
0:14:02I don't know how much longer it's going to live, but I just wanted to let you know that I scratched the screen protector,
0:14:07just because that's kind of a funny thing.
0:14:08Maybe you were upset.
0:14:10Maybe you were upset at the screen protector and you wanted to hurt it.
0:14:13Yeah, maybe that might have been what it was.
0:14:16Do you know what would be really
0:14:18rewarding for all of us?
0:14:21just as a connected family.
0:14:23If you just got your iPad and took it off on the microphone
0:14:27so we could hear it.
0:14:28- I knew you were gonna suggest this.
0:14:29- It's a really nice sound.
0:14:31- It's not in the same room.
0:14:32- Well, we can wait.
0:14:33I can edit it in elevator music.
0:14:35- When we come back from the ad break,
0:14:38we can all have an ASMR treat.
0:14:40- Yes.
0:14:41- So you go do that and I'll go get my iPad.
0:14:44- Oh my God, okay.
0:14:46- This episode of Connected is brought to you by Pingdom,
0:14:49the company that makes website performance
0:14:52and monitoring really easy.
0:14:54Look, everyone loves a fast website
0:14:57and Pingdom is helping keep our favorite sites online
0:15:00from Netflix to Amazon, Spotify, Twitter,
0:15:03Buzzfeed, Slack, and a little podcast network
0:15:06you may know as Relay FM.
0:15:08These companies trust Pingdom to take care
0:15:10of their website monitoring.
0:15:13Websites can get pretty complicated.
0:15:15They have a lot of moving parts like user registration,
0:15:17logins, checkout, saving shopping carts, a ton of stuff, right?
0:15:22Simple static sites are a thing of the past.
0:15:24And Pingdom can monitor all these different site transactions
0:15:28because they care about your users
0:15:30having the smoothest site experience possible.
0:15:34And if disaster strikes, you'll be the first to know.
0:15:37Pingdom is super easy to set up.
0:15:40It's really simple to get started.
0:15:42All they need is your URL and they take care of the rest.
0:15:45That's it. Just give them the URL and you're off.
0:15:48Go to pingdom.com/relayfm right now
0:15:52for a 14-day free trial with no credit card required.
0:15:57And when you sign up, use the offer code connected
0:16:00at checkout to get a huge 30% off your first invoice.
0:16:05Thanks to Pingdom for their support
0:16:07of this show and Relay FM.
0:16:09- So, but before I do this, I just wanna say,
0:16:12I will miss the way that this feels.
0:16:13It does feel really good, but like it does ruin the screen.
0:16:17I have no idea.
0:16:18Good bye paper.
0:16:19Bye.
0:16:20I have no idea if you're going to hear this, but I'm going to give it a go anyway.
0:16:24Alright, you ready?
0:16:25Yes.
0:16:26Oh man, it's gone.
0:16:39It sounded like thunder for a second.
0:16:42Yeah, there was one point where I hit it against the microphone.
0:16:45Oh, you guys, did you know that the 12.9 inch iPad has a really nice screen?
0:16:52It's a retina display under there!
0:16:53It looks so good, oh my god it looks so good, but you know what though, genuinely, I do
0:16:58not like the way it feels.
0:17:00Like it's just too grippy now.
0:17:02You need some more finger grease on there to oil that baby up.
0:17:05I guess that's probably what it is.
0:17:09That's disgusting, Steven. My god!
0:17:13Can I just say I've had this thing for like a second and it's already like a bunch of
0:17:19just fingerprints all over it. That's the thing that I'm giving up.
0:17:22I just clean my iPad off, you know, every once in a while and I think this is really nice.
0:17:26I should put it in a glass case and never touch it again.
0:17:29No, you just need a screen protector.
0:17:32The trick is to never leave the display off so you never see the fingerprints.
0:17:37That's the secret to your productivity.
0:17:41Always keep it running.
0:17:45Alright do we have to do this? Whatever it is, yes is the answer.
0:17:49Yeah you promised, you promised that you would talk about your phone situation.
0:17:53Oh I see, oh I see what we're talking about.
0:17:56I did promise. To recap, I bought an iPhone XS Max with y'all and many of our
0:18:03listeners back when it whenever it came out in the fall and pretty good pretty
0:18:08good time screen was nice battery life was amazing and then like a month ago I
0:18:14said you know I should check out the iPhone XR it's the most popular iPhone I
0:18:17want to kind of understand it as a device see what it's like compared to
0:18:20the other things so I picked up a XR really liked it but as I discussed with
0:18:25y'all the the camera was really what was gonna do it in for me long term the
0:18:31The screen is great, the battery life is incredible.
0:18:33I love the colors so much.
0:18:36But I really like having that second camera.
0:18:39Not necessarily for portrait photos,
0:18:41but it's actually kind of surprising
0:18:43once you pay attention, for me at least,
0:18:45how often I would switch the zoom lens
0:18:46to take a regular photo.
0:18:50It's nice to punch in sometimes.
0:18:52And I knew that in my inner self
0:18:57that I would be frustrated not having that over time.
0:18:59So the iPhone XR went back to the Apple Store.
0:19:02Thank you Apple retail for having a nice return policy
0:19:05and please don't catch on to the fact
0:19:06that sometimes I use it to review your products.
0:19:09Just keep that between us, listeners.
0:19:11But the thing that I realized was that the XS Max
0:19:17is beyond my upper size limit for phones.
0:19:23I really like the plus size, I like the size of the X,
0:19:27But sometimes I thought the X was a little small.
0:19:31And the XR for me, honestly, is like the perfect size iPhone.
0:19:33I really love that size.
0:19:36But I picked the Max up again.
0:19:37I was like, this is too big.
0:19:39It's too much phone for me.
0:19:44So while all this is going on with y'all,
0:19:46I'm also having this conversation
0:19:47with a family member who needs to buy a new iPhone
0:19:50to replace a flip phone they were using.
0:19:53Like, yes, I had a family member using a flip phone.
0:19:56They wanted to buy an iPhone.
0:19:58They really liked the idea of having something big,
0:20:01because this person works out running around all day,
0:20:06seeing clients and stuff.
0:20:07So they use a MacBook Air, but they're like, well,
0:20:10I could just do email and stuff on the phone.
0:20:11If it was big enough, they're going to blow up the text size.
0:20:14The Max was attractive to them, but they
0:20:17didn't want to spend the whatever it is, $2,200
0:20:21for an iPhone XS Max.
0:20:23And so I cut a deal with that family member.
0:20:25I said, I'll make you a deal on the max,
0:20:28help you out, you get to where you need to be.
0:20:30And I ended up with an iPhone XS.
0:20:36It's right here in my hands,
0:20:39and I have to say, I really love it.
0:20:42I love the screen size, it's way more pocketable,
0:20:45I can use it with one hand, unlike the max,
0:20:47which was just like too big for my hands.
0:20:50And so yeah, that's the end of my iPhone journey
0:20:55for this year.
0:20:56- For now.
0:20:58For now.
0:20:59I mean, I seem to recall that when we had the conversation
0:21:04about the XR, I don't remember exactly what it was
0:21:07that I predicted you would do,
0:21:08but I don't think it's very far off
0:21:10from what you ended up doing.
0:21:12That you wouldn't be able to settle on anything.
0:21:14And you didn't settle on anything.
0:21:16You settled for neither the thing that you had
0:21:18or the thing that you already owned.
0:21:19you went for like a third option,
0:21:21which was another new thing.
0:21:23- It's the most Steven decision in that situation.
0:21:26But anyways, I really like the size.
0:21:28I will say though, the battery life is worse
0:21:31on the smaller phone.
0:21:32Especially coming from the XR to this,
0:21:34the battery life is not stellar.
0:21:37It's not impressive, so that's a bit of a bummer.
0:21:39But other than all that, my family member's taken care of.
0:21:43I've got a phone I like that I can use one-handed.
0:21:45And that's the story.
0:21:49I cannot even begin to imagine what you're gonna do when the new modular Mac Pro comes
0:21:54out.
0:21:55You're gonna try so many different displays.
0:21:58I know what he's gonna do.
0:21:59He's gonna buy that.
0:22:01Yeah, but first he's going for one type of configuration, then he's gonna switch it to
0:22:06another, then he's gonna switch displays, then it will tweak the amount of RAM that
0:22:10goes into the computer.
0:22:11It'll be like a six month thing, at least.
0:22:15You're not wrong.
0:22:16What would you describe as the cause for your undecisiveness, Steven?
0:22:25Here's the thing. I'm actually quite decisive in a lot of areas of life. Just when it comes
0:22:33to technology products. And not even technology products.
0:22:37You're very decisive. You just make a lot of decisions.
0:22:40Repeatedly. Over and over. In quick succession.
0:22:43About the same things.
0:22:44But you know, there's a lot in my life that I'm not this way about, but something about
0:22:50laptops and phones just bounce around a bunch.
0:22:54Anyways, but yes, the Mac Pro will be an endless playground for me, which I look forward to
0:23:00greatly.
0:23:01The iMac Pro is all sealed up, I can't do anything with this computer.
0:23:03I can just look at it and love it, but its successor I will be able to take apart anytime
0:23:07I want.
0:23:08I remember though that this iMac Pro came with one of these stories.
0:23:17That wasn't like it.
0:23:18That was like a, if I remember rightly, again, beautiful Stephen Fashian, you were very much
0:23:24like "I don't need one of those, I'm going to buy a refurbished iMac instead."
0:23:29When they are announced.
0:23:30No.
0:23:31Yeah.
0:23:32I'm going to buy a refurbished iMac because that's all the iMac I need and then like two
0:23:35weeks later you got an iMac Pro.
0:23:37pretty much what happened. Yep. So this is why I won. There are always good reasons though,
0:23:42right? Like that iMac I bought was an i7 and the fan noise was ungodly and when you record podcasts
0:23:48you can't deal with that. So beautiful, silent iMac Pro. But for some reason everybody else can see
0:23:54these reasons ahead of you. Yeah that's what's really troubling. So maybe I just need to call
0:23:59y'all before I purchase anything and we just talk to it. Anything. Yeah and I'll just tell you what
0:24:04what to do every time.
0:24:05- Could you be my life coach?
0:24:07- Sure. - Okay.
0:24:09Well, that's enough about me.
0:24:10We have a lot of stuff to talk about
0:24:12because the floodgates have opened on 2019
0:24:17and beyond Apple rumors.
0:24:20It's, there's like every time I open a web,
0:24:24the web browser, there's more Apple rumors to talk about.
0:24:27And I thought we could start with the most recent.
0:24:30It's being like today on Wednesday
0:24:32and we work our way back to the stuff earlier this week.
0:24:35So we all woke up this morning
0:24:37to an article by Mark Gurman.
0:24:41As a meta comment, I will say this is written only by him,
0:24:45and it's way more clear than the stuff
0:24:47he has to write with other people
0:24:48that has lots of hedging and stuff.
0:24:49Like, I read this article top to bottom,
0:24:52I have problems with it, but it all made sense,
0:24:54unlike some of his joint writing he does with other people,
0:24:57which I don't blame Mark for.
0:24:58I'm sure he's got editors somewhere
0:25:00to make him do that sort of stuff.
0:25:01But to recap this if you haven't seen it,
0:25:03Mark Gurman lays out a timeline for the rollout
0:25:09of what he is still calling Marzipan,
0:25:11which not everyone thinks that's the name, but whatever.
0:25:13We're calling it that for lack of a better term.
0:25:16So he's laying out the case that this is going to be
0:25:21a three-year story starting in 2019,
0:25:26that developers will be able to port,
0:25:29I'm going to use the word porting, again,
0:25:31lack of a better term, but build their iPad apps
0:25:35and bundles for the Mac App Store.
0:25:37So this is sort of like phase one of Marzipan.
0:25:40He's saying this will be in 2019.
0:25:43So it's assuming we'll see this at WODC
0:25:46and in the next version of macOS,
0:25:48where iPad apps can run on the Mac,
0:25:51just like news and home and all that sort of stuff.
0:25:56So that is where he says things are going to begin,
0:26:01which makes sense, right?
0:26:03Like it's the closest thing, I think,
0:26:06to a Mac app as an iPad app.
0:26:08So like, eh, I could see where this would be
0:26:11where things begin.
0:26:12What do y'all think?
0:26:13- Yeah, makes sense, especially because it's not like,
0:26:18I think the report says it will not be a bundle
0:26:22on the app server like an iPad and a Mac app together,
0:26:26but as a developer you will just be able to take your code for an iPad app
0:26:30and it'll mostly work out of the box as a Mac app.
0:26:36So it remains to be seen how evolved,
0:26:39compared to the current crop of Marzipan apps, the final framework will be.
0:26:44But the idea being that you don't have to learn a different framework from scratch,
0:26:49you don't have to deal with UIKit and AppKit at the same time,
0:26:53it'll just be UIKit all the way.
0:26:55It'll just be iOS frameworks that now also work on the Mac.
0:26:58So it opens the opportunity for iPad app developers
0:27:03to bring their apps to the Mac.
0:27:06Whereas now there's a barrier to entry for iOS developers
0:27:10of which there are more than Mac developers like it or not.
0:27:14This is the era where we live in.
0:27:17All those developers, young developers,
0:27:19all kinds of developers that are making iPad software
0:27:23can now make Mac software.
0:27:24And I think that's a beautiful thing.
0:27:26And it'll drive some people crazy,
0:27:29and it'll make other people like us happy, I think.
0:27:32But the technicalities of that will be interesting.
0:27:36Like, will you be able to tell a Marzipan app
0:27:40from a real Mac app?
0:27:42Probably.
0:27:43Will there be some kind of--
0:27:44- I think so.
0:27:45- Will there be some kind of tribal sort of taking sides
0:27:50among developers and users?
0:27:51Yes, knowing people, they will take sides.
0:27:54already happening right like if people are already angry about this and it's not here yet yeah but uh
0:27:59i think it's a good idea the thing that i remain the thing that i remain the most interested about
0:28:03which is something that mark can't know and no one will know for like like at least six to eight
0:28:10months after um wwdc probably is like what effect this has on mac slash ipad development like how
0:28:21does something like this change the way that apps on either platform is made?
0:28:25Will people put more effort into their iPad apps than they did before and push them further than
0:28:32they did before because they'll be able to run on the Mac as well? I'm really intrigued to see
0:28:38what this ends up doing. Does it mean that we end up with a bunch of not incredible Mac apps,
0:28:47but we end up with a bunch of Mac apps that didn't exist otherwise, that we're all happy exist now,
0:28:53or do we end up in a situation which is the one that I hope, which is that
0:28:56iPad development gets pushed forward more aggressively than it has been in years because
0:29:03of the fact that you get this like two for one, and also you end up with more fresh Mac apps again
0:29:10for the same reason, because there's now a two for one.
0:29:14I guess the idea would be that if you now have the tools to bring your iPad app to the
0:29:20Mac, but the Mac audience expects a certain degree of functionality, and so as an iPad
0:29:28developer you will be more incentivized to care about stuff like keyboard shortcuts or
0:29:33keyboard navigation or certain professional features, because if you are to sell your
0:29:41app to the Mac audience, while those people expect a certain degree of functionality,
0:29:48and that becomes sort of the tide that raises all boats in the sense that iPad users will
0:29:54be happy and Mac users will be happy. So in theory that should be the plan, and I think
0:29:59it's a clever plan if that is what Apple is doing. My only concern is, and I guess it
0:30:05just comes with territory, it's not something that can be avoided, that there will be a
0:30:10bunch of poor and useless ports of iPad apps just because they can exist. But this is something
0:30:18that we see all the time whenever Apple opens up a new platform like the Apple Watch App
0:30:23Store or the iMessage App Store. Like, there will be useless ports that are released just
0:30:30because they can exist. But I think we can, you know, we will be able to separate those
0:30:37that make sense from those that do not make sense. And also I'm interested to see like,
0:30:42will this be a solution for companies like Twitter or Slack to, in the case of Twitter,
0:30:49to actually offer a Mac app again even though their iPad... But that's the point, even though
0:30:54their iPad app is not great, if they now have the tools to make you work on the Mac, they might just
0:31:00fix the iPad app and take better advantage of the screen, because then Mac users will complain as
0:31:06well. So it's a sort of catch two birds with one stone scenario here. And I think
0:31:13the possible benefits of this approach are more like they are worth the
0:31:25trade-off and the possible disadvantages and the possible downsides of doing this.
0:31:30This has to be the calculus that Apple is doing that yes there will be some Mac
0:31:35apps that do not feel like, I don't know, Final Cut or what's a good Mac app these days?
0:31:42BB Edit. Like, there will be these apps that you can tell they come from the iPad. Still,
0:31:49though, it's better than not have those apps at all and better than to have Electron apps
0:31:54instead. So...
0:31:55Yeah, I honestly don't see how there is a downside to this because the apps that weren't
0:32:01going to be made with these tools whenever going to be made like this.
0:32:05You know, like BB Edit is not going to go to this
0:32:09and strip a bunch of functionality out.
0:32:12Rather, that's not going to happen.
0:32:13Like panic are not going to be like, oh, lol transmit doesn't work on the Mac.
0:32:19Now we're going to revive an iOS app and port it back.
0:32:22Yeah. Right.
0:32:23Like it's not going to change that, but it's going to add in a bunch of new stuff.
0:32:28And I don't understand necessarily why this is a problem.
0:32:31Like I also saw, because part of this is right, the 2021,
0:32:35that there'll be single binaries, right?
0:32:36So you can have a Mac, an iPad, an iPhone app in theory,
0:32:40which could all be combining together and combining the app stores.
0:32:44And I've seen people complaining today that, oh, no,
0:32:47this is now Apple taking more money away from us.
0:32:49I don't see that happening either, because most of the developers
0:32:53that would have an issue with this are probably not even using the Mac app store anyway.
0:32:59And I also don't imagine that changing.
0:33:01- As far as we know, Apple has no plans
0:33:04to end non-app store distribution on the Mac.
0:33:08This isn't, that isn't none of these stories.
0:33:10So those classic Mac apps--
0:33:12- There's like a million times
0:33:13they could have done that before now,
0:33:14and I don't think that this makes it any more likely
0:33:17one way or the other. - I don't either.
0:33:19So 2019, iPad apps coming to the Mac.
0:33:222020, iPhone apps can be ported,
0:33:25again, as separate app bundles.
0:33:27Gurman says this is because of difficulty
0:33:30with the screen size differences.
0:33:32So maybe Apple's struggling how to make iPhone apps
0:33:35not just look like rectangles on the Mac.
0:33:38My question here with this is,
0:33:40well, what about universal iOS apps?
0:33:42So if I have a universal app and I make it narrow,
0:33:45will it load the iPhone UI on the Mac?
0:33:48I would assume that it would.
0:33:49Something about this being,
0:33:52like iPad and iPhone apps being separate by a year
0:33:55feels a little weird to me.
0:33:59- It feels to me that there's like something will happen
0:34:01between 2019 and 2020.
0:34:04Like there's something else,
0:34:05like there's a second like shoe to drop that it's like.
0:34:08- I don't know.
0:34:09I think what Myke is saying is correct.
0:34:11I think there will be either like some major change
0:34:13to Xcode or maybe specifically to interface builder.
0:34:16Maybe that's, Gruber was talking about this
0:34:21a few months ago.
0:34:23like a new way to design interfaces that when you take into account the constraints of an
0:34:30iPhone interface and you want to make it scale up to fill a bigger display, the current solution
0:34:36doesn't work and so you will have to have a different system which explains the like
0:34:432019 for iPad and 2020 for iPhone. Like it feels there's a technological step needed
0:34:49in between, otherwise why would there be any difference between iPad and iPhone?
0:34:54And if it's a screen problem...
0:34:56Yeah, this was that whole discussion that occurred before WWDC
0:35:01last year, where John Gruber was saying that Mark Gorman was wrong
0:35:06and that Marzipan wasn't what it was.
0:35:09It was the idea of creating this system of
0:35:13UI being made completely differently, right?
0:35:17And that you would make all these declarations...
0:35:19Clarity UI, thank you, that was the word, yes.
0:35:23So, but then it was like, then there was this kind of like a peeing match between the two
0:35:28of them, right?
0:35:29Where like, German was like, no, it's my way.
0:35:31And John was like, no, it's my way.
0:35:32And then German won out.
0:35:34But that doesn't mean the Gruber is wrong.
0:35:37Yeah.
0:35:38That what what Gruber was talking about wasn't something else, which could be that thing.
0:35:44feels like we it's like, you know, trying to draw a big
0:35:48picture, and we just have a small viewport here and there.
0:35:51I clearly there's more to this stitching this together that we
0:35:53don't know yet. But that makes it fun to talk about months in
0:35:57advance.
0:35:57Like you said, Myke in 2021, the single binary so a single app
0:36:04bundle could be downloaded on the Mac, iPad and iPhone, which
0:36:08Gurman said would effectively combine the app stores. So I
0:36:12I don't know if that means that all iOS apps at this point could work on the Mac unmodified.
0:36:18Clearly that means ARM Macs by 2021 are a thing, right?
0:36:23Because for 2019 for an iPad app to be ported to a MacBook Pro that has an Intel processor
0:36:28in it, it is going to have to be recompiled to some degree.
0:36:31Right, but it depends on how you look at the iPad and the iPhone app stores today, right?
0:36:39where they are combined, but it's not like,
0:36:43iPhone apps are not presented front and center,
0:36:47you know what I mean?
0:36:48It's like, what way do we look at this?
0:36:50Do you consider the iPhone and iPad app stores
0:36:52right now to be the same?
0:36:55- I mean, kind of.
0:36:57It's confusing, right?
0:36:59And I think that the undercurrent for me in all this
0:37:01is what does this timeline say about ARM Macs?
0:37:05I'm of two minds of this.
0:37:08If ARM Macs are still a couple of years out, then Apple's asking developers to take an
0:37:14iPad app or an iPhone app eventually, do the work to make it run on an Intel machine, and
0:37:21then, "Oh, by the way, 18 months later, 24 months later, oh, there's ARM Macs.
0:37:25Look at all that work you did to make your iOS app work on an Intel machine?
0:37:29We don't need that anymore.
0:37:31Just discard all that work you did."
0:37:33That's not great.
0:37:34But then the flip side is worse, where if they roll this out with a new ARM MacBook
0:37:38and say this only works on the new MacBook
0:37:39and it will only work on our Macs
0:37:41and all those Intel Macs we sold and still sell today,
0:37:44they don't get any of this.
0:37:45That's also bad.
0:37:46So again, there's some middle ground here.
0:37:49There's something that we can't see.
0:37:52It may be that preparing an iOS app for Intel
0:37:55is not a big deal.
0:37:57Maybe it's better than it was during the PowerPC transition.
0:38:01Maybe they've really gotten it where
0:38:04it's not a big deal at all.
0:38:06Or maybe you don't have to do it
0:38:06and they're doing some emulation for you automatically.
0:38:10You know, where you just, it's actually the same code
0:38:13and they run a translation layer like Rosetta was.
0:38:16So it may be that it doesn't require ARM Macs at all.
0:38:20I mean, yes, the chat room is yelling at me,
0:38:21yes, Mac OS supports fat binaries,
0:38:24I've done that for a long time.
0:38:25But like, this is a new era and a new set of problems
0:38:29from PowerPC to Intel and Apple's got to tell a story there
0:38:33that makes sense for developers to do it, right?
0:38:36So when they switched to Intel, the story was, hey, if you recompile your apps, they're
0:38:40going to be four to five times faster.
0:38:42Like you know, you're going to be able to take benefit of all this Intel stuff, and
0:38:46you won't be dependent on Rosetta.
0:38:48And eventually Rosetta is going to go away.
0:38:50So you should do this.
0:38:53That is not the story this time.
0:38:54And so Apple needs to have a compelling reason for developers to go down this road, because
0:38:59They're asking them to take a product and an application and port it to a less popular
0:39:07platform.
0:39:08This is the truth.
0:39:09I love the Mac more than almost anyone, it feels like.
0:39:12It is a less popular platform.
0:39:13You're asking developers to do something that isn't a guaranteed win for them business-wise.
0:39:20So you've got to make that as easy as possible, and I think that's another factor here to
0:39:23consider.
0:39:24It's all very exhausting to think about, guys.
0:39:28I did want to point out one thing in this article that I didn't love.
0:39:32I said I wanted to go past.
0:39:34Pretty high in the article, Gorman writes, "Each new app is another revenue opportunity
0:39:39for Apple because it takes a cut of many app-related purchases and subscriptions.
0:39:43The company has positioned its services division as a major growth area."
0:39:48Now, he does go on later and say, "Oh, well, it's good for users and developers too."
0:39:55And I think I'm reading into what he wrote, right?
0:39:59But I think the order of those things is wrong.
0:40:00I think Apple is doing this because it believes it's good for the platforms.
0:40:05It's a lifeboat for the Mac, which has an app ecosystem that is not healthy.
0:40:09It is good for users and developers.
0:40:12It benefits users to be on all Apple platforms if their apps work everywhere.
0:40:18And it's good for developers potentially because they could make more money.
0:40:21Yes, the side effect of that is Apple makes more money, but I don't read any of this as
0:40:26Apple doing this to marginally improve their services revenue because Apple is spending
0:40:34who knows how much money in engineering talent and engineering hours to make all this stuff
0:40:43work.
0:40:44They're never going to make that back on the 30% stuff of what, you know, if these apps
0:40:50charged separately from their iOS bundles, right? Like that math doesn't make any sense to me. So
0:40:54I just, everyone right now wants to put every Apple story through the context of the services
0:41:00revenue. And I just I think that's a little lazy and not fair to what the company's trying to do.
0:41:05Yeah, I guess I see why like, at first I didn't, I didn't understand why you dislike the point. But
0:41:13then in the context of now every single thing that Apple does is parsed through the lens of
0:41:19Apple is now a services company? Yeah, I mean, of course they are investing in this stuff
0:41:26because they want to make it easier to buy software and to buy it on more platforms.
0:41:31But then again, it'll like this very idea of having a single binary that runs across
0:41:38multiple devices potentially it means Apple is taking 30% of a single price, like a single
0:41:47price or a single purchase from the user.
0:41:49So it kind of runs counter to the very premise
0:41:52of they're doing it because of services,
0:41:54because it means less revenue in theory.
0:41:56- Yeah, if you wanted to do it as services,
0:41:59you would do all of this, but keep the app store separate.
0:42:02- Exactly.
0:42:03I think the point that I wanted to make in this segment is
0:42:07the more we hear about this stuff,
0:42:12and now we have more details of this possible timeline
0:42:15for 2020 and 2021, the more it seems clear
0:42:19that we are moving, like it or not,
0:42:21to a point where there will be a single Apple platform.
0:42:25I don't want to say Apple OS yet,
0:42:29even though I think that's what we'll have in five years,
0:42:32but the idea of a shared app platform
0:42:35between iOS and the Mac is the end goal.
0:42:38And I feel like starting with apps
0:42:43and slowly merging, starting with iPad apps
0:42:46can now run on the Mac,
0:42:48and then make it possible for release the first Macs
0:42:53with ARM chips inside made by Apple,
0:42:57and then make it possible for iPhone apps to run on the Mac,
0:43:00and then make a single binary.
0:43:02I mean, at that point,
0:43:03you're just unifying multiple devices into one app platform.
0:43:10And once you reach that, in 2022, for example,
0:43:14why not just have a single Apple OS?
0:43:17So the idea of, and this is my belief
0:43:21and there's other people that would agree with this,
0:43:24but I think the future should be one
0:43:28of a single operating system that can scale
0:43:31across different types of computers,
0:43:34different types of screens, different interactions.
0:43:36I'm not arguing in favor of the death of the Mac
0:43:40or saying the Mac should go away.
0:43:43I think this distinction between iOS and macOS is weird.
0:43:48And I think we're reaching the point where,
0:43:50first with apps, and then, and yes, I know
0:43:54that Apple said no to combining iOS and macOS,
0:43:59but we all know that Apple can say one thing
0:44:01and have dozens of invisible footnotes
0:44:05in every statement that they make publicly.
0:44:07And in that case, it will not be merging iOS and macOS,
0:44:12it'll be a new thing.
0:44:13- Yeah, yeah, it's like technically we didn't merge them,
0:44:17it's brand new.
0:44:18What you talking about?
0:44:20- This is pure Apple playbook.
0:44:21They didn't merge them, they made a new thing.
0:44:24So I feel like you can still have
0:44:27what you love about the Mac,
0:44:28you can still have what you love about iOS,
0:44:31but you can remove this entire overhead
0:44:33of some things run on macOS and macOS has certain frameworks
0:44:38and interactions and other things work only on iOS.
0:44:41It's a lot of work for everybody.
0:44:42It's a lot of work for users to understand.
0:44:44It's a lot of work for Apple.
0:44:45It's a lot of work for developers.
0:44:47Why not make it easy?
0:44:48We have the tools to make software that can adapt,
0:44:53that can change depending on the device that you're using,
0:44:57whether it's touch, cursor, big screen, small screen,
0:45:00multiple windows, multiple monitors.
0:45:01like we are advanced enough, technologically speaking, to have this kind of stuff.
0:45:07Other companies are already doing it.
0:45:09So I feel like, you know, I keep coming back to this metaphor of like a song, like music.
0:45:20Like I think of the future of the single Apple OS, the single Apple platform, as like you have the same song
0:45:30and you can listen to the same song using different devices.
0:45:34You can listen to the song with your iPhone speakers,
0:45:37you can listen to the same song with the HomePod,
0:45:39and you can use your earbuds, your AirPods,
0:45:42your headphones, your car stereo,
0:45:44but it's always the same song.
0:45:45It's always the same, at a basic level, the same experience,
0:45:49but it changes, like on your HomePod,
0:45:51you hear the bass is better and louder,
0:45:54and maybe with your over-ear headphones,
0:45:57you hear other details better,
0:45:59but it's still the same song and the idea of it's still the same OS,
0:46:03but you just switch computers and you switch screens and sizes and workstations.
0:46:09That's the future that I want to see.
0:46:11And it's going to make a lot of people uneasy,
0:46:15but I feel it's the right thing to do.
0:46:18And this is a timeline.
0:46:19This rumor provides a timeline where we're now in 2019.
0:46:23I strongly believe that by 2023, so five years,
0:46:28will have this kind of future.
0:46:30One last thing in the report, just basically thrown in
0:46:34at the bottom was the Mac Pro may be showing off at WWDC.
0:46:37So keeping an eye out for my pick for the year, I guess.
0:46:41I appreciate that, Germin.
0:46:43I think we all felt that, right?
0:46:46I don't think that's a surprise.
0:46:48This seems inevitable.
0:46:50All right, so we have some more stuff to talk about,
0:46:53but I want to tell you about our second sponsor.
0:46:55This episode of connected is brought to you by our friends at Luna display.
0:47:01Having extra space when working from your Mac is super useful.
0:47:05It can make tiresome tasks more enjoyable by removing that command tab frustration.
0:47:12And think about it, we have iPads and iPads have stunning displays.
0:47:16And maybe you like the idea of having another screen for your Mac, but don't want to go
0:47:20out and purchase another big bulky display.
0:47:23Luna Display is the answer because it lets you use that stunning iPad display
0:47:26with your Mac with just a tiny bit of hardware. Luna Display provides crystal
0:47:32clear image quality, reliable performance, and wireless flexibility. You just pop in
0:47:38a little hardware to your Mac and you're good to go. And if you don't have a Wi-Fi
0:47:42connection, say you're traveling, no worries you can just connect directly
0:47:46via USB. And the great thing about Luna Display is how portable the whole setup
0:47:51So you can be productive at the office, in the studio, or again as you travel.
0:47:56It's a super smart way to work with more screen real estate while you're on the go.
0:48:01LunaX is a complete extension of your Mac. It's going to support your external keyboard,
0:48:06as well as your Apple Pencil and touch interactions.
0:48:09Basically it turns your Mac into an iOS app, which is something you guys have said.
0:48:13That's really how it feels. It's great.
0:48:16And the all new liquid video engine brings significantly reduced latency and a faster screen refresh rate.
0:48:22It feels native, it's so fast.
0:48:24I've been using Luna Display for a while now and the setup process is really easy.
0:48:30So you get the iOS app, you get the Mac app, and then you just plug in the little bit of hardware.
0:48:36Mine is just plugged in right to the back of my iMac Pro.
0:48:39And anytime I want to use it, I just fire up the Luna Display application and I'm ready to go in just seconds.
0:48:46It's not a long process every time.
0:48:47It just works.
0:48:50Listeners of Connected can get an exclusive 10%
0:48:53off their Luna Display.
0:48:56Just go to lunadisplay.com and enter the promo code
0:48:59connected at checkout.
0:49:01That's lunadisplay.com and promo code connected.
0:49:05So don't put this off any longer.
0:49:07Travel smarter.
0:49:08Use that iPad display with your Mac
0:49:10for additional screen real estate.
0:49:12So head on over to lunadisplay.com
0:49:14use the promo code connected for 10% off.
0:49:17Our thanks to Luna Display for their support of this show
0:49:20and Real AFM.
0:49:21- So our good friend, Mr. Ming-Chi Kuo,
0:49:25dropped a beautiful graphic.
0:49:27You've all seen the graphic, right?
0:49:30You've seen the graphic, it's so fun, I love it.
0:49:32There's like a rabbit and a pig
0:49:35and there's like some flowers and it's all different colors
0:49:39and I love the font that they chose.
0:49:42My buddy Ming Chi uses Pixelmator to get this stuff done.
0:49:46I'm not surprised. It's very cool.
0:49:50I like this graphic a lot.
0:49:51I don't it's like one of the things I don't know why they chose to display
0:49:54that way, but I kind of love that they did.
0:49:57But there's a there's a whole ton of things on here,
0:50:00and we're probably not going to cover all of them.
0:50:02We should maybe just tackle a few of the things that's reported in this.
0:50:06So I guess the big, big thing is the
0:50:11MacBook Pro. There's a rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro coming sometime this year.
0:50:19Like all of the stuff that Ming-Chi Kuo is talking about is stuff that he expects to be this year.
0:50:23Stephen, do you want to give us the breakdown of what this MacBook Pro could look like and/or
0:50:31what you think it might look like based upon the information that Kuo has given?
0:50:36Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, basically, the the whole of this part of his report is that Apple
0:50:42will be releasing a new MacBook Pro between 16 and 16.5 inches in size. Remember, his sources are
0:50:49like supply chain type sources. Like he's rarely wrong about size stuff, right? He knew the size
0:50:55of the iPhones for this past year, you know, way in advance, and he knew the size of the 10s,
0:51:00the XR or the Max early on.
0:51:02So when he has something to say about dimensions, I generally believe it.
0:51:08So 16, 16.5 inch MacBook Pro with what he's calling an all new design.
0:51:14So this is not just the 15 inch MacBook Pro stretch.
0:51:19So some sort of new design.
0:51:22I sort of struggled to understand what that would look like because I feel like the MacBook
0:51:26Pro is about as simple and as plain of a notebook design as you can get besides the touch bar,
0:51:31but I guess we'll see what they have to do there.
0:51:35So this is really interesting for a bunch of reasons.
0:51:40The current MacBook Pro, the big one, is 15 inches.
0:51:46And some people have said, "Well, this is just going to be them doing the bezel-less
0:51:50thing and shrinking the bezels around that display."
0:51:55And I'm not sure that's actually what's gonna happen here.
0:51:59So the current MacBook Pro is actually a 15.4 inch diagonal display.
0:52:04I don't have one of these 15 inch MacBook Pros in person, but looking at my 13 inch
0:52:08MacBook Pro of the same design, I'm actually not sure there's enough bezel left to stretch
0:52:15it and hit the 16 or 16 and a half inches he's talking about.
0:52:20So I tend to think this is a bigger notebook.
0:52:22Like it's actually physically bigger than the 15 inch MacBook Pro.
0:52:26What I thought about instantly was when Apple introduced the retina
0:52:31MacBook Pro back in 2012, it was a new design, whole new machine, right?
0:52:37Like no spinning hard drives, different IO, different design.
0:52:41Of course, the retina display being at the heart of it.
0:52:43And it was introduced as a high end model above the other MacBook Pros.
0:52:49And over time, the Retina display and the new design
0:52:53slowly worked its way down.
0:52:55And before we knew it, after a few years,
0:52:59all the 15-inch MacBook Pros were Retina,
0:53:01and then all the 13-inch MacBook Pros were Retina.
0:53:03And then they've slowly phased the other design out.
0:53:06That's kind of what I think could happen here.
0:53:09I think that we could see a 15-inch and a 16.5-inch
0:53:13for a while, and then this new design come down.
0:53:17I would like--
0:53:18Yeah, because you've got to guess that a machine like this one is going to be more expensive
0:53:23as a starting point than what they currently have, right?
0:53:26I would think so.
0:53:28There's still this thing of size and price being sort of a ratio with Apple, so a bigger
0:53:33machine you should kind of assume will demand a higher price.
0:53:36So that could be an outcome here.
0:53:38I would like to see them change the design all at once, but that's just coming from a
0:53:42frustration point of the MacBook Pro.
0:53:45But I do think that there's demand for this.
0:53:47I think there were people who were sad when the 17 went away.
0:53:50The 17 inch never entered the retina era.
0:53:52And there are people who do want more space,
0:53:56but more importantly, they want better performance.
0:53:58And the 15 inch, we're gonna talk about this in a second,
0:54:02the 15 inch MacBook Pro, I think it's impressive,
0:54:05but they could do more with it
0:54:06if they had better cooling and more space.
0:54:09And so this could be an even more powerful machine.
0:54:13They could bring in some like really high,
0:54:15You know, AMD has a new line of mobile graphics with all the RTX stuff, and they could bring
0:54:22that into this potentially.
0:54:23It could really be an interesting machine.
0:54:26And hey, you know, they could give it great battery life and let it be cooler.
0:54:32It's easy to pin all of our desires on this machine, so that's what I'm doing.
0:54:35But I think it's going to be a new high-end model that introduces something new that eventually
0:54:39comes to the rest of them.
0:54:41So Quo refers to it as an all new design, right?
0:54:45Like all new design.
0:54:47What does all new design mean to you other than it's got a bigger screen?
0:54:52It means that it's got a revised keyboard.
0:54:58I think if they say it's an all new design and it's the same keyboard, people are going
0:55:01to be upset.
0:55:02So I think they're going to address the keyboard.
0:55:04But I think that maybe they bring it more in line with the iPad, potentially, the way
0:55:12the iPad looks.
0:55:13I don't suspect that we'll see a big change in terms of I/O.
0:55:17I think it's still going to be Thunderbolt 3 only.
0:55:20I think it will be less of a big deal when they went from the 2015 to the 2016.
0:55:25That was a radical departure.
0:55:27I see this being less of a departure than that was.
0:55:32I struggle sometimes with my imagination and these sorts of things so who knows
0:55:35I'm just wondering because like I was talking to Jason about this a bit on upgrade and I want to see what you think I
0:55:41Kind of feel like the laptop design is is been has been solved like there isn't really
0:55:47Much more at least that Apple will want to do
0:55:52There there are things that other companies are doing like making them into convertible devices
0:55:59Putting leather on the outside of them like that stuff that's happening, but I can't imagine a MacBook Pro
0:56:04Looking that much different when it's closed for example than what they currently do yeah
0:56:11I mean they love thin aluminum machines right like it's and they're not gonna. I don't think they're gonna experiment with materials very much
0:56:18You know
0:56:20Bring the bezels down replace the keyboard, and maybe you ditch the touch bar in this or something
0:56:25- I was just about to ask you that.
0:56:28Touch bar or no touch bar?
0:56:30- That is, I mean, so, colored through my personal
0:56:34experience with the touch bar, I would say get rid of it,
0:56:36and we never speak of it again.
0:56:38You know, this is gonna be a pro level machine,
0:56:41and I'm not sure that pros have been really sold on it.
0:56:45You know, 'cause they have the type of users who
0:56:48are wired into keyboard shortcuts and stuff, you know?
0:56:51I would love that this would be maybe the first machine
0:56:54that had touch as an option,
0:56:55but I don't see them doing like a two in one
0:56:58Surface Book type thing.
0:57:00I just, I feel like Apple's allergic to it
0:57:02with the Mac for some reason.
0:57:03Which is a bummer.
0:57:05- Yeah.
0:57:06- I think they should do it,
0:57:07but I don't see it coming with this.
0:57:08- Yeah, okay.
0:57:11- This MacBook Pro though is gonna have a buddy,
0:57:14potentially.
0:57:15- Yes.
0:57:17- Which is perhaps even more exciting
0:57:19because it, I think could go to a wider number of users.
0:57:23So Apple, you know, been out of the display business
0:57:26for a while and he's saying they're gonna come back in
0:57:29with a 31.6 inch, 6K, he calls that 6K 3K,
0:57:34which I think is just like a 6K,
0:57:38I think he's talking about the horizontal
0:57:39and vertical resolution, but a 6K monitor
0:57:42powered by mini--
0:57:44- Or it folds. - Or it folds.
0:57:46Just like whatever Samsung is doing right now as a record.
0:57:49- Uh-huh, 6K 3K.
0:57:51Powered by mini LED, which is something Apple's been playing with.
0:57:55I assumed that was gonna come to the watch first, but maybe it's gonna come here.
0:57:59Clearly this display would look incredible, but I got to thinking, "Wait a second.
0:58:05What does Apple have that can drive a 6K display?"
0:58:07And that led me down basically like 45 minutes of reading Thunderbolt spec sheets, so I have
0:58:12some knowledge to drop on y'all.
0:58:15- You had the greatest afternoon you could possibly give yourself.
0:58:20Thunderbolt 3, which showed up in these MacBook Pros I've been talking about, can push two
0:58:254K 60Hz displays or one 60Hz 5K display.
0:58:33This is basically over a single...
0:58:34When you talk about the number of ports versus the number of lanes with Thunderbolt, it gets
0:58:39confusing.
0:58:40I'm sort of glossing over some of that, but two 4K displays, one 5K display is what Thunderbolt
0:58:44can do.
0:58:45is through DisplayPort, which is a connection type that rides on top of
0:58:50Thunderbolt 3. So remember Thunderbolt 3 uses the USB C connector but it also
0:58:56carries Thunderbolt 2 and DisplayPort and like USB A and like all these other
0:58:59things crammed in for the ride. It's it's a little confusing to talk about.
0:59:05DisplayPort 1.4, which is the the newest standard DisplayPort, can drive 8k
0:59:13displays. Now to do this you need the updated Thunderbolt 3 controller that
0:59:18Intel released last year called Titan Ridge. So it's still Thunderbolt 3, the
0:59:23port looks the same, it acts the same, but it's got more bandwidth. With the 2018
0:59:28MacBook Pros, Apple moved to Titan Ridge controllers. It's just in the notebooks
0:59:33and it is more bandwidth, it's super speedy, but Apple didn't fully implement
0:59:42DisplayPort 1.4 on that controller. So the hardware, the connection is
0:59:51capable of driving an 8k display, but the crummy GPUs Apple puts in their
0:59:57notebooks is not capable of driving that. So Apple caps these machines at 5k
1:00:03output. My question initially was can Thunderbolt 3 even drive a 6k display?
1:00:07The answer is yes. The sub answer is but none of Apple current's Thunderbolt 3
1:00:11machines can do it because of the GPU situation.
1:00:14So it's like a good news, bad news.
1:00:17Yeah. Good news is Apple has the ability to do this.
1:00:21Bad news. It's going to be like we're drawing a line in the sand.
1:00:25Right. Because clearly this monitor is for this new mythical MacBook Pro and the Mac Pro.
1:00:30Like that's what it's for. Right.
1:00:31Like it's for those two things.
1:00:33We'll maybe get to something else in a minute.
1:00:35But like that's what we're assuming that, you know, they will probably be like, oh, hey, in June,
1:00:41we have this MacBook Pro, here is that MacBook Pro, here is a monitor, these will be available
1:00:46in four weeks, and here's a teaser about the Mac Pro which will also be able to use this
1:00:50thing, right?
1:00:51Totally.
1:00:52That's totally what's gonna happen.
1:00:53Because for Ming-Chi Kuo to know about this stuff right now must mean it's closer than
1:00:56the Mac Pro which he seems to know nothing on except the fact that it's coming, but he
1:01:00didn't know that, everybody knows that, Apple said it, so like, he doesn't necessarily know
1:01:04anything that Mark Gurman doesn't know, or that I don't know, right?
1:01:08Like it's just, we all know it.
1:01:09I came down, going down this rabbit hole, they make a 15 inch MacBook Pro with a beefier
1:01:15GPU, now they rolled it out in the fall.
1:01:18There was speculation at the time that Apple could enable DisplayPort 1.4 for that machine
1:01:24with a firmware update and they haven't done it.
1:01:26So either that GPU isn't powerful enough or they're just unwilling to do it for whatever
1:01:31reason.
1:01:33This is doable.
1:01:34I think you're right.
1:01:35display would work with the 2019 MacBook Pro and the 2019 Mac Pro and the 2019
1:01:41you know iMac Pro or whatever but not current machines which that's not crazy
1:01:48uncommon when Apple's route displays you know they had I just wrote this piece
1:01:53for Federico about macworld 2009 and that was when they were moving to
1:01:56DisplayPort for the first time before Thunderbolt just regular display port
1:02:00and mini display port and they had an the LED cinema display which used main
1:02:06display port and then they rolled out Thunderbolt max and then they had the
1:02:10thunderbolt display but the thunderbolt display was only compatible with new max
1:02:16it wasn't backwards compatible even though the connector was the same so
1:02:20this would be a similar situation here I think where it's compatible with these
1:02:24machines even though the ports look the same they're not the same which is a
1:02:28It's a little confusing if you're just going into a store to buy something, but you can
1:02:32say, "Oh, well, it supports a 2019 machine.
1:02:34I have a 2017, so it won't work."
1:02:36So it's not great, but people can deal with it.
1:02:40Where this gets interesting is what we're going to talk about after the break, because
1:02:46Federico had a really good question for me that we went further down.
1:02:50We went deeper into Intel spec sheets.
1:02:54Before we do, I just have one thing I wanted to mention about the monitor, right?
1:02:5730 inches and that's just funny to me because it feels like monitors never got bigger than that.
1:03:01Yeah, I mean...
1:03:02Right, like it's just a funny thing that like it seems that on a desk, I mean I think for good
1:03:08reason we found the maximum size of monitors like 10 years ago.
1:03:12Yeah, I mean Apple had that 30 inch and I remember if you had it you were like
1:03:17baller status. It was really expensive.
1:03:20It's huge, it's huge.
1:03:20Yeah, I mean 30...
1:03:22But like even gaming monitors though, like you know, the ultra wides excluded,
1:03:26but by and large they're in the high 20 inches. Well part of that is based on resolution right,
1:03:33so if you don't want to have a 4k display above a certain size point because then it's like you can
1:03:38see the pixels again so part of that like you know that's there's some fudge there I think but
1:03:42it's really interesting yeah it's a bit it's a big gonna be a big boy uh hooked up to our
1:03:48Mac Pros at the end of the year. I'm sure Casey's very excited. I'm actually very excited about it
1:03:55But it's becoming more exciting the more I hear about it.
1:03:59Like that screen sounds berserk.
1:04:01- Mm-hmm.
1:04:02It's gonna be cool.
1:04:04This episode of Connected is brought to you by Care/Of.
1:04:08Care/Of is a monthly subscription vitamin service that delivers completely personalized vitamin
1:04:13and supplement packs right to your door.
1:04:16You may have wondered at some point in the past whether you're getting all the vitamins
1:04:20you need if you're taking care of yourself the best way possible.
1:04:23And you're right to wonder because it turns out like 90% of us are lacking in at least
1:04:28one vitamin or nutrient.
1:04:31Care/of can help you figure out what you need with a fun online quiz.
1:04:34And it asks things about your diet, health goals, lifestyle choices, that sort of thing.
1:04:39It just takes five minutes and it works out what you need to add to your system.
1:04:46And because they know you're busy, Care/of will send this stuff, send these vitamins
1:04:50right to your door in personalized, easy to remember daily packs.
1:04:54Which are great if you're traveling, right? Like if you have a prescription, you gotta like
1:04:59count how many days you're gonna be gone. You don't have to worry about that. It's just
1:05:02daily packs. And if you're vegan or vegetarian, they totally cater to that too. So everyone is
1:05:08set. So Myke, I know you have been spending some time with Care/Of Vitamins. So how's it been going?
1:05:16Yeah so I went through my favourite thing about Care Of actually is their quiz. So the quiz is
1:05:22super easy, it asks you a bunch of questions and it's not daunting, you don't have like this long
1:05:27list of questions, they just go through one at a time and it's nice and visual as well so it's just
1:05:31big buttons with little illustrations on them and it says like "oh how do you feel about this,
1:05:35what is your current feeling about this" and you can kind of go through and tweak everything.
1:05:39It has nice graphics, it's got some personality to it and I really liked at the end of the quiz,
1:05:46it kind of it shows you all of the things that it recommends that they end up setting up for you on
1:05:51like a on like a plan and it goes through okay i think you might want this thing and this thing
1:05:56and this thing and what i like is when you click into it it tells you why based upon the questions
1:06:01that you gave so if you're then looking at it and be like oh i don't know what i think about this
1:06:06is this something that i want is this something that is this the right mix for me it actually
1:06:10tells you why based upon the answers that you gave and if you feel like you want to tweak anything
1:06:14you can. I just really like that a system like this one walks you through it
1:06:18really easily, like getting rid of the confusing and big questions, and then
1:06:23gives you a nice breakdown at the end. And just because Steven asked me to, I
1:06:27will say vitamins now, because it sounds more fun than vitamins. Vitamins. Vitamins.
1:06:33Maybe someone can remix that for us with some sweet music in the background. Yep.
1:06:39And guess what? We're still in the beginning of the year, so if you have
1:06:43some health related goals for 2019, Care/of helps make sure that it sticks
1:06:47by helping you build a routine that's made just for you. To take advantage of
1:06:51this month's special New Year's offer for 50% off your first month of
1:06:55personalized care of vitamins go to takecareof.com and enter the code
1:07:01connected50. That's connected 5 0. That's takecareof.com and promo code
1:07:07connected50 for 50% off your first month of vitamins. My thanks to Care/Of for
1:07:13their support of this show and Real AFM. So we've been talking about this new
1:07:18display 6k and Federico has what I've termed pixel lust. He's got that 4k
1:07:25display but the man just wants more and so we started thinking about what would
1:07:30happen if the iPad Pro got an update? Could it support something like this?
1:07:34what would it what would it mean for it to be you know more capable than just
1:07:40with a new Mac and that's where we get into USB 3.1 gen 2 yeah just the current
1:07:50standard 10 gigabits per second bandwidth yeah we're just super fast but
1:07:55not near enough for this sort of display right there's not enough bandwidth well
1:07:59USB 3.2, dear friends, is out there on the horizon being tested. I don't know how
1:08:06you test a USB spec. You know, do you make it run? Do you starve it and
1:08:12see if it gets angry? I don't know what you do, but they're testing it and it
1:08:15seems like USB 3.2 could answer some of these issues, but maybe not all of them.
1:08:21So the bandwidth needed for 6k is beyond the 20 gigabits per second that USB 3.2
1:08:29will offer. In my reading it seems like USB 3.2 could support a 5k display. So
1:08:39right now like the iPad Pro or the OnePort MacBook can only drive the LG 4k
1:08:43but the 5k requires Thunderbolt again for the additional bandwidth. So it may
1:08:48be that the iPad Pro can push a 5k display if this new connector makes it
1:08:51to the iPad or makes it to the new MacBook at some point. But it seems like
1:08:55like from my understanding at least that 6k and higher is going to require
1:08:59Thunderbolt and at this point that's not in an iPad. Yeah and it feels
1:09:07like if Apple is indeed making this 6k display and assuming that again it would
1:09:15just be strange I think if Apple were to release a display and it did not support
1:09:21the iPad Pro. I think it would be strange, especially considering how they made a
1:09:28big deal of external display support on the iPad Pro last year. Now, I just, I
1:09:33cannot imagine Apple saying "we made a new display but it's only for Macs"
1:09:37especially if the iPad Pro is gonna have some productivity enhancements in the
1:09:42next version of iOS and maybe they're gonna have some external displays
1:09:45support new stuff, new APIs or whatever. So I was thinking about the
1:09:52rumor that we saw that Apple is indeed working on a spec bump for the iPad Pros
1:09:59in 2019. So we were all just assuming that the next iPad Pro would come out in
1:10:042020 because they are on a two-year release cycle and you know
1:10:08the iPad Pro just came out in November 2018 so the design is gonna stay the
1:10:13for at least couple of years, but now there's this rumor saying that Apple is
1:10:17working on a spec bump for the iPad Pros this year, and so I started wondering
1:10:22what if this spec bump is necessary to make those new iPad Pros support the
1:10:29new Apple display, the new 6K Apple display that they're supposedly making.
1:10:33But if that is the case, I have to wonder, USB 3.2 is still in the testing stages,
1:10:40It's not been widely adopted. I cannot think of any device that you can get off Amazon or any other consumer electronics product that currently supports USB 3.2 at 20 gigabits per second.
1:10:55So could this mean that Apple is going to finally cave and bring Thunderbolt support to the iPad?
1:11:06Is that even possible without an Intel GPU behind the scenes?
1:11:13Or does this mean that the display will not support the iPad Pro?
1:11:18So I'm just wondering what's the strangest outcome here?
1:11:25that Apple releases a display that does not support the iPad Pro or that Apple has figured
1:11:30out a way to bring Thunderbolt to the iPad Pro?
1:11:34And I...
1:11:35Well, the thing hanging over that question is, again, the ARM Mac.
1:11:43I don't think Apple wants to drop Thunderbolt from the Mac.
1:11:45And so at some point you've got to think they're going to bring Thunderbolt to ARM.
1:11:49So Thunderbolt is an Intel technology,
1:11:51but they have made it where OEMs can use it.
1:11:55And I'm not sure if that means Apple could just
1:11:58take it and stick it in an ARM machine,
1:12:00or if it's even possible.
1:12:02That's engineering way above my pay grade.
1:12:04But it feels inevitable that Thunderbolt,
1:12:08or something equivalent to it, will come to ARM devices made
1:12:11by Apple.
1:12:12I just don't know if it's now.
1:12:14I think if they release this display
1:12:15and it does not support the iPad Pro, that's a bummer.
1:12:18But I don't think it--
1:12:20I think that's definitely possible and actually probably
1:12:22likely even.
1:12:24I mean, I would love for Apple to bring some consistency
1:12:27to this and say both the Mac and the iPad Pro,
1:12:30they support USB-C, and they support Thunderbolt,
1:12:33and DisplayPort 1.4.
1:12:35And you can use the same 5K or 6K display
1:12:38either with your Mac or your iPad Pro.
1:12:40I think that would be the right thing to do, especially
1:12:42because the USB spec is not advancing as quickly
1:12:47as Thunderbolt 3 at this point. So we're still in the testing stages for something that is stuck at
1:12:5320 gigabits per second and Thunderbolt 3 is already double that and shipping right now. So
1:13:00before something like USB 3.2 Gen 2 or even USB 3.3 is available it'll be several years.
1:13:10And again I think it's just strange to imagine that Apple is back in the display business but
1:13:15but it just works with the Mac.
1:13:17So personally, I think it's more likely/I wanna believe
1:13:22the Thunderbolt is coming to the iPad Pro.
1:13:25And there's also this rumor of a spec bump this year.
1:13:30That would sort of remind me of when Apple made a big deal
1:13:35with the iPad 3, the first to go Retina,
1:13:38and then a few months later they did the iPad 4
1:13:40because they needed to switch to Lightning.
1:13:43And so everybody was upset because, oh, the new iPad 3 just came out a few months ago,
1:13:47and now you already have the iPad 4, which was essentially the same iPad, but just with
1:13:52the new Lightning port instead of the 30-pin dock connector.
1:13:55But yeah, I think, I mean, I would love for the iPad Pro to gain, you know, software-wise
1:14:02better integration with external displays, and I want this 6K Apple monitor to exist.
1:14:10The report is also saying that it will be like the, what's the name, micro LED display.
1:14:15Super super fancy stuff.
1:14:17So mini LED.
1:14:21Real fancy, I can imagine that it'll be beautiful and like a beautiful piece of hardware, unlike
1:14:26the LG Ultra Find that I have, which is functional but ugly.
1:14:31I think that maybe the stars are lining up for the iPad to support this based upon the
1:14:39update to the iPad Pro which Quo just calls like a processor bump which
1:14:44doesn't make any sense otherwise because they've never done this before where
1:14:54they've had an iPad Pro not change except forget a new processor like that
1:15:00is that's a that's a weird thing to see I think like why else would they do that
1:15:07I don't know why they wouldn't just leave it for the 18 months.
1:15:09Unless it's like something else in iOS that that would require it.
1:15:13But I don't know.
1:15:15It seems that seems a little strange to me.
1:15:16And it's it sounds oddly specific to say
1:15:20iPad Pro spec bump in 2019, like we just had a new iPad Pro.
1:15:24So unless Kuo heard something specific, why would this be in his report?
1:15:29So and it tends to be accurate with this kind of stuff.
1:15:32So again, I want to believe this is happening.
1:15:35But, and again, I cannot think of any other, like, why would the iPad Pro need a spec bump in 2019?
1:15:43If I were to ask you this question, what would the answer be?
1:15:45And this display comes as the first possible option, because it's 6K and Apple does not want to release a new display that does not support the iPad Pro.
1:15:55So they can just go out and say, "We have a new display, it works both with the Mac and the iPad, and here you go with new Macs and new iPads."
1:16:04I don't know. That would be sweet and at the point I'm already... I've been
1:16:10discussing with Sylvia what happens to this ultrafine that I have. It's 30 inches
1:16:14too much for the desk that we bought. We'll talk about that again
1:16:20when the time comes. Do we think that they'll only do one monitor? Steven, do you
1:16:25think it would just be one size? I think that's just the big boy. If
1:16:31If they can roll out the faster Thunderbolt 3 quick enough, you know, I think maybe they
1:16:38do a 5K that supports older Thunderbolt or even USB C, you know, the new 3 point whatever,
1:16:453.2.
1:16:46So I don't know, I mean, my gut says just one and if it doesn't support your machine
1:16:51too bad, but…
1:16:53So there was also some rumors of iPhone changes, so I'm going to read this section from 9to5
1:16:59report on Ming-Chi Kuo's report. According to Kuo, the 2019 iPhones will feature ultra-wideband
1:17:06connectivity for indoor positioning and navigation, frosted glass casing, bilateral
1:17:11wireless charging for charging other devices, so it could basically charge your AirPods from the
1:17:16iPhone, upgraded Face ID with a higher power flood illuminator, larger batteries and a triple camera
1:17:22design but Quo doesn't say which phones will get which features exactly. So if
1:17:28you imagine all of that stuff in an iPhone do you think that this is like a
1:17:33big enough selection of things to move the needle maybe for people in our lives
1:17:38that didn't think that the the XS line was big enough change wise? I guess it
1:17:45depends on what a new camera system would bring in practice.
1:17:52I cannot imagine the two-way wireless charging being a big deal for folks.
1:17:58Yes, you will be able to maybe charge your AirPods on top of your phone,
1:18:01and that's cool, but that's not something that sells a new iPhone.
1:18:04But a radically new way to take pictures or considerably better
1:18:10photos. Now that that's something that can sell phones. I also think that a price drop can sell
1:18:18phones. So I remain convinced that this is something that we said a few episodes ago,
1:18:23there will be price drops for iPhones in 2019. Right now it doesn't sound so compelling for
1:18:32people. I mean, I'm gonna get it anyway, but for people who want to see the differences between
1:18:37each iPhone iteration, I don't think it sounds like a major departure from the X and the XS.
1:18:43I guess the new material could be something that entices people to upgrade. Again, I
1:18:50struggle to imagine what that's gonna look like, but my feeling is
1:18:55X, XS, so I'm talking about the small version of the phone, X, XS, whatever is gonna be called 11,
1:19:03like the base model doesn't sound so different. Now the max if it has the new camera system now
1:19:09that could be something to drive people to upgrade to but I don't know. Yeah I think I'm mostly
1:19:19feeling the same right like these sound like an interesting selection of things to me but it's
1:19:25definitely back in the kind of incremental camp again which I don't
1:19:32know if it's easy to forget or whatever but that's kind of how we were for many
1:19:37years before the 10 right that like it was it was mostly just incremental
1:19:43updates every year and depending on your own personal set of requirements you
1:19:49would decide which one of the two was the more important right whether it was
1:19:54like speed or whatever it was cameras because you know from the 6 onwards it didn't really
1:19:58change for a long time. I remember that was boring for us. Yes. And we've probably got
1:20:06maybe this one will still be exciting but then probably the one after that unless Apple
1:20:10does some big big stuff it's going to be a bit chill again for a few more years I think.
1:20:15I mean and it's probably because just in general the standard line of smartphones has mostly
1:20:22become pretty samey. I mean, we mentioned this, but we are recording this at the time
1:20:27that Samsung has just shown off the first kind of like, really commercial phone.
1:20:31Galaxy Fold!
1:20:32So maybe like the Galaxy Fold, like in a few more years, you know, things might get more
1:20:37exciting again, as there's like new form factors and stuff. But you know, it's pretty, the
1:20:43iPhone X was incredible, but it will only take a year for it to feel normal. And so
1:20:47now anything that comes from there is going to be pretty, it's going to feel pretty much
1:20:54the same for a bit. I mean I will say that this phone sounds more exciting a jump than
1:21:00the 10 to the 10s did. Like the 10s to this does feel more interesting. Better face ID
1:21:05would be great, triple camera sounds fun. I don't know what ultra wide band connectivity
1:21:10gets me, I don't really know what that means. The bilateral charging would be a really nice
1:21:14especially as AirPods are growing in popularity and I guess we're all assuming that it's AirPods,
1:21:20that's why they're doing this. So yeah, I think it sounds fun, but it's not huge.
1:21:27So we already know what the story's going to be, you know, like failing Apple who couldn't
1:21:33sell enough iPhones don't do enough with their iPhone to sell more iPhones. But that's just how
1:21:38that's going to go for a bit, probably. Yeah, I mean they've moved into a cycle
1:21:44that's longer than two years with the design. And if you know, I think people saw the notch
1:21:50potentially as like a design change, but if it's the new normal, and it lasts as long
1:21:54as the home button, you know, we have to divorce that from the rest of the design aesthetic
1:21:59of the phone potentially to consider something new or not. So it's new ground this year,
1:22:04especially with three phones. So we will, we will see how it goes.
1:22:09And Ming-Chi Kuo also calls out that there will be an out of power this year after all.
1:22:14But I still don't buy it.
1:22:15I still just, I'm still not, I still don't believe it.
1:22:18It just seems so strange to me still.
1:22:20I don't know.
1:22:21I don't know about it.
1:22:22I don't know.
1:22:23We'll see.
1:22:24If you want to find links to stuff we've talked about, stories we mentioned, you can head
1:22:29over to the website relay.fm/connected/231.
1:22:35While you're there, you can get in touch.
1:22:36There's an email link there in the sidebar.
1:22:38this feedback follow up via email but that's too old-fashioned for you or you
1:22:43can do it in less than 280 characters I guess you could do it over on Twitter
1:22:47you can find Myke there is I M Y K E and Myke is the host of a bunch of shows
1:22:52here on relay FM so if you like connected it's probably something else
1:22:56that we do that you would like like as well you can follow it Federico at
1:23:00Batichi VI T I CC I he is the editor-in-chief of max stories dotnet so
1:23:06So as these iPad apps come to the Mac, you guys are going to be busy, Federico.
1:23:12It's going to be a lot of stuff to talk about this year.
1:23:15You can follow me on Twitter as ISMH and my writing at 512pixels.net.
1:23:21I thank our three sponsors this week, Pingdom, Luna Display, and Care/Of.
1:23:26Until next week, gentlemen, say goodbye.
1:23:28Arrivederci.
1:23:29Cheerio.
1:23:30Adios.