0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02- Hello and welcome to Connected episode 202.
0:00:12- I'm good. - It's brought to you
0:00:13this week by TextExpander, Simple Contacts, and Anchor.
0:00:17I am your host, Stephen Hackett,
0:00:18and I'm joined by two marvelous hosts as well.
0:00:23Corner number one, we have Federico Vittucci.
0:00:26- Hi, Stephen. - How are you?
0:00:28I'm great. I'm just, you know, coming up for air after typing my iOS review for like 10
0:00:37days straight. So, yeah, that's fun.
0:00:40I'm glad you could take a break and join us today. And we're also joined by returning
0:00:45special guest, Jon Voorhees.
0:00:47Hey, Steven, how you doing?
0:00:49Oh, no. Is he here?
0:00:51How you doing?
0:00:52Oh, no.
0:00:53I can't pretend to be you this time, though.
0:00:54Is that what you were trying to do last time?
0:00:57I did such a good job last time.
0:00:59Your Arrivederci John was really on point.
0:01:02You did a really good job.
0:01:03I knew you'd like that.
0:01:04Thank you.
0:01:05So, Stephen, what are we talking about today?
0:01:09What's the topic list?
0:01:11Do we have any…
0:01:12We have some topics and we have some Q&A because it's the summer and sometimes topics are
0:01:16hard to come by.
0:01:18And we have follow-up.
0:01:19We're going to start with follow-up.
0:01:20We're going to start with your Sonos problems and maybe a solution.
0:01:25Not really. So I was able to find on the Sonos forums a few people having the same issue
0:01:34that I have, which to, you know, to sort of for context, we talked about this last week.
0:01:39My problem is not being unable to stream music from the iPhone to the Sonos. That is working
0:01:45as long as I select the Sonos as a destination, as a playback device from the first tile of
0:01:53control center that works, so streaming directly from the phone to the Sonos works. My problem
0:01:58is if you treat the Sonos 1 in my case as an Airplay 2 device, as an independent audio
0:02:06device. So if I ask Siri for example to play music in the balcony, it doesn't work because
0:02:13it says that it's unable to connect to the Sonos. And I've been able to find a few people
0:02:18having the same problem. I tweeted about it and the Sonos account found my tweet, which
0:02:23was not a public tweet, it was a response to somebody else. So I assume they have some
0:02:28real professional, you know, Twitter saved searches going on. They found my tweet and
0:02:34they responded. They got in touch with me over DM and they asked me to give them some
0:02:41details and I gave them the details and then they said, "Well, we need you to run a diagnostic
0:02:45tool and give us more information about the mesh Wi-Fi system that you have. I sent them
0:02:51the dynostics and the details about the router and the Wi-Fi. And then they asked me to do
0:02:57something that I honestly don't have the time to do right now. So they discovered in the
0:03:03dynostics that the Sonos One connects to the satellite device instead of the main one,
0:03:09the main Orbi unit, and they asked me to unplug the speaker and plug it into the main unit
0:03:17which is inside the house and restart my entire network, so that means powering off the modem
0:03:24and restarting everything, and then running the diagnostics again. Honestly, this is going
0:03:30to take me like at least half an hour, which I don't have time to do right now during the
0:03:35the week. So probably in the weekend I will do as they say and I will follow up again
0:03:40I suppose next week or you know if I have time or not honestly I don't have I don't
0:03:46know right now I just don't want to because it sounds like a lot of work.
0:03:50Yeah that's there's a QA department for that kind of thing.
0:03:55It happens sometimes so well hopefully that helps solve it it seems like a weird thing
0:04:00but I don't think I understand the intricacies of Airplay networking to say if that answer
0:04:09actually makes sense or not.
0:04:12Let me tell you, if only the company that makes the Airplay protocol and the iPhone
0:04:18and the iPad and the Mac was also in the router business, that would probably solve a lot
0:04:25of problems.
0:04:26Too soon, man.
0:04:27Too soon.
0:04:28Holy, imagine that crazy idea.
0:04:30The company that makes your electronics also makes your Wi-Fi.
0:04:33Wouldn't that be nice?
0:04:35I don't want to go off on that tangent today.
0:04:39So Jon, I'm going to see you this weekend.
0:04:42We are.
0:04:43You're speaking this weekend.
0:04:44And you've got your iMacs on display in the Detroit area, right?
0:04:49Yeah, so the Henry Ford Museum, I've spoken about them before.
0:04:53They took the 13 colors of iMac G3 that I collected.
0:04:57They're part of their permanent collection.
0:04:59I also interviewed their technology curator on the podcast
0:05:03like a couple years ago about the Apple One.
0:05:05She's awesome.
0:05:06So anyways, this weekend is the Detroit Maker Faire.
0:05:09It takes place on the grounds of the Henry Ford Museum.
0:05:12So I'm gonna be there for the Maker Faire.
0:05:14I'm speaking Saturday and Sunday
0:05:16towards the end of the day about podcasting,
0:05:18how to get started, how to make money in it,
0:05:20all those sorts of things.
0:05:22And John, you're gonna come up.
0:05:24And so if you wanna come see John this weekend,
0:05:26or me or a bunch of awesome other nerds making stuff,
0:05:29the Detroit Maker Faire seems like it's gonna be
0:05:31a hopping place.
0:05:32- Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun.
0:05:34I've been to the Maker Faire in Detroit a couple of times.
0:05:36I went to the very first one and I think maybe the third one
0:05:40and took my kids and it's a lot of fun.
0:05:41I mean, they have, in years past, they've had things like,
0:05:45you know, 3D printer displays and demonstrations,
0:05:48people pouring lead and iron into vats
0:05:53to make all kinds of tools.
0:05:55They had a tornado storm chaser vehicle there that you could tour.
0:06:00All kinds of really neat, crazy stuff.
0:06:03So it's a lot of fun and it looks like the weather's going to be good, although maybe
0:06:07a little bit warm.
0:06:08So Steve and I are going to be hanging out on -- I'll be there Saturday, I won't be there
0:06:12Sunday.
0:06:13But Steve, I think you're there Saturday and Sunday, right?
0:06:14Both days.
0:06:15So yeah, so if you're in the area, come out and the IMAX will be on display, I believe,
0:06:21through the fall as part of a new exhibit called Looking Through Things.
0:06:29So they're a part of a larger exhibit about transparency and translucency in technology
0:06:36products dating way back to like World War II, which is bonkers.
0:06:40So that's at the museum, so if you want to go by there and see that, say hi to my old
0:06:46IMAX.
0:06:47And I'm planning to have a video after the weekend kind of showing it all, so I look
0:06:51for that too.
0:06:52It'll be fun.
0:06:53I'm looking forward to seeing you, Jon.
0:06:54I've seen you like every three or four weeks all summer.
0:06:57I'm going to be really sad when I don't see you.
0:06:58Yeah, I'll have to come down to Memphis sometime, I guess.
0:07:00Yeah, we've got to see each other in September, but we'll see each other in October in Chicago,
0:07:03so that's enough.
0:07:04Right.
0:07:05Seeing your old computers under new ownership must be something like when an ex goes to
0:07:13wedding of their own partner and they're like "aren't you doing nicely when you're new in life?"
0:07:18I don't know I've never seen a computer that used to be mine and someone else's possession.
0:07:22That's not true I sold it. That must feel kind of weird for you.
0:07:26I sold my iMac to my brother. Kyle's the Gray has my old MacBook Pro but I've never seen it.
0:07:32But yeah I mean these were in my collection now they're in their collection but I think I said
0:07:36at the time like if I couldn't keep them this is where I wanted them to go and so I'm more excited
0:07:41than anything that they're going to be on display. That's really cool.
0:07:44Well, I'll be there to document the reunion of the IMAX and Steven.
0:07:50Yeah, Jon, if I start trying to break the glass and climb in the exhibit, just try to
0:07:56stop me, please.
0:07:57Gotcha. Gotcha.
0:07:58I feel like you would be more gentle than museum security.
0:08:01Probably.
0:08:02All right, we've got a lot more stuff to talk about, but first I want to tell you about
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0:09:44So we've got a little more MacBook Pro stuff to talk about.
0:09:47Federico, I know you've just been itching to talk about throttling MacBook Pros.
0:09:50You were texting me the other night.
0:09:51You said, "Can we record right now?
0:09:53I have a lot to get off my chest."
0:09:54And I said, "No, you've got to save it for Wednesday, man.
0:09:56We record on Wednesday.
0:09:57Hold your horses."
0:09:58Yeah, yeah.
0:09:59Yeah, I was really anticipating this discussion about, you know, keyboards and, you know,
0:10:08hot CPUs and that kind of stuff. That's my jam. That's totally so let's do it. What's
0:10:15happening with the MacBook Pro, Steven? A couple of things. There was this video,
0:10:19it seemed like the i9 in particular was being throttled once it started getting hot,
0:10:25like to a degree that was surprising,
0:10:28in a very uneven and heavy-handed manner.
0:10:31Apple came out yesterday with a statement saying,
0:10:35"There's an issue with the firmware on the machines.
0:10:38"Here's a software update."
0:10:39That's only been about 24 hours,
0:10:41but it seems like the YouTubers
0:10:43that were really kind of at the forefront of this
0:10:45have re-benchmarked the machines,
0:10:47and things are faster, they're where they should be.
0:10:51They still throttle a machine this thin and light
0:10:54with a six core i9 in it is going to throttle,
0:10:57but it is far more acceptable, far more reasonable
0:11:01in the way that it's doing it,
0:11:02and more predictable, which is the big thing.
0:11:04The benchmarks were all over the place before,
0:11:06and it seems like Apple has worked this out.
0:11:10This update does apply also to the 13-inch.
0:11:13Apple said this firmware issue was true
0:11:15for all 2018 MacBook Pros.
0:11:19It seems like maybe what happened is they
0:11:21do all this internal testing.
0:11:23the final firmware was not applied at the factory.
0:11:27There was some breakdown there.
0:11:29And it's unclear, Apple didn't address that directly,
0:11:31but that seems to be what happened.
0:11:33'Cause in testing, they didn't do this,
0:11:35but Apple reached out to these YouTubers
0:11:37and these reporters working on this
0:11:39and trying to figure out what was going on.
0:11:41And I think that's, while the problem is weird,
0:11:45hopefully whatever happened in that confusing middle step
0:11:50where the wrong firmware, or an old outdated firmware
0:11:53put on these machines in the factory,
0:11:56they should fix that and get a handle
0:11:58on whatever happened there.
0:11:59But Apple, I think they do this a lot more than we see,
0:12:03where they do work with YouTubers and writers
0:12:06and other people in the media when there's an issue like this
0:12:10because they want to understand what's going on,
0:12:14try to get to the bottom of it,
0:12:15working with people who are experiencing it.
0:12:17And that, to me, is really encouraging.
0:12:19Like, I walk away from this encouraged that Apple,
0:12:23listen to its users, that it didn't just write it off
0:12:25and that they actually found a mistake
0:12:27and they corrected it and they were pretty transparent
0:12:29about what the mistake was.
0:12:32I still think there's room for debate,
0:12:34like not all machines, especially a pro machine,
0:12:36need to be thin and light, that's a different conversation.
0:12:39But it seems like at least for now,
0:12:40these machines are much more predictable
0:12:43in the way they act under load than they were before.
0:12:46- Right, it was really interesting
0:12:49to kind of watch this play out
0:12:50because there was that initial YouTube video
0:12:52that you mentioned, and I think that 15-inch MacBook Pro
0:12:56is throttling down all the way down to like 800 megahertz,
0:12:58I want to say, which is, yeah, significantly slower.
0:13:02I mean, you know, computers from years and years
0:13:04and years ago were that speed.
0:13:07So it was a big issue.
0:13:09It seemed to be something that happened
0:13:10when a machine was running under load
0:13:13for significant amounts of time.
0:13:14And then right before Apple issued the software update,
0:13:19a bunch of Redditors were on the case,
0:13:21and they were trying to figure out exactly what was going on.
0:13:23And they had discovered that they thought it was something
0:13:26that could be corrected in software.
0:13:27Really, I think, literally an hour or two maybe
0:13:29before Apple released their update.
0:13:32So credit to them to kind of tracking down the problem
0:13:35on their own and realizing that it was a software issue
0:13:37and not necessarily, not a hardware issue as it turns out.
0:13:40- And like I said, I still think there's,
0:13:42clearly there's room for improvement on Apple's part
0:13:44and the thermal management on thin notebooks.
0:13:46Like a six core i9 in this chassis is probably pushing it.
0:13:49And I watched a video last night of someone
0:13:53comparing the i9 MacBook Pro to an i9 gaming PC,
0:13:57which is thick and heavy and has LEDs, it's kinda weird.
0:14:00But they do perform much better
0:14:03because they have better cooling capacity.
0:14:06So the MacBook Pro is doing the best that it can
0:14:09given its design, where that was not the case before,
0:14:13but I still think that there's room in Apple's lineup
0:14:16for a notebook that isn't this thin.
0:14:19if it means you can run them faster
0:14:22or you get a real GPU, a good mobile GPU in them,
0:14:27'cause that's still,
0:14:29really a lot of these benchmarks
0:14:30the GPUs Apple is using in these things,
0:14:32even on the high end, it's still not spectacular.
0:14:35Like there are better options out there
0:14:37and even staying within the AMD side of things
0:14:41because Apple just refuses to use Nvidia chips
0:14:46because they are in some sort of Cold War with them.
0:14:49But it's promising that these machines,
0:14:53at the very least, will work as advertised
0:14:55because they weren't doing that before.
0:14:57So I think I mentioned on the show last week
0:15:01that I had ordered a base model, 13-inch,
0:15:05with an i5 and eight gigs of RAM.
0:15:07And I very quickly realized that that machine
0:15:11was not the one I actually needed.
0:15:15Just 'cause it was not powerful enough
0:15:17for what I was wanting to do with it.
0:15:19Like I said, I've said this a bunch of places,
0:15:20I don't usually let notebook on a regular basis,
0:15:22but when I do, it's for audio,
0:15:25some video when I'm on the road.
0:15:27And as cheap as, not cheap,
0:15:30but the cheaper base model machine
0:15:32was attractive to me for budgetary purposes,
0:15:35but wasn't gonna cut it.
0:15:37So I ended up yesterday swapping it out.
0:15:39My local Apple store had an i7 with 16 gigs of RAM,
0:15:42just like randomly in stock, which was cool.
0:15:46And so I ended up picking that up
0:15:49and I've only had it a day,
0:15:50so I don't have a lot of like real time with it.
0:15:54But I can say that the SSD speed is immediately noticeable.
0:15:59It's in line with what the iMac Pro does.
0:16:05That T2 chip and those rated SSD modules,
0:16:10The storage is just so crazy fast on these new machines,
0:16:15and that means every single thing feels faster.
0:16:18I think we all remember when we got our first SSD computer,
0:16:24like it was probably a MacBook Air for a lot of people,
0:16:27or a MacBook Pro, and that first time you boot up
0:16:30from an SSD, you're just like, oh my gosh,
0:16:32I didn't know a computer could be this fast.
0:16:33And even though the CPU may have been the same
0:16:35from your previous machine, or not that much faster,
0:16:38The data coming off the disk is just critical to so many things.
0:16:43And you can feel that in the new machine that so much stuff is faster because the SSD is
0:16:48so fast.
0:16:49The keyboard feels fine.
0:16:51I had a 2016 for a while and it feels softer than those and is definitely quieter than
0:16:58the 2016.
0:17:01Fingers crossed that it holds up.
0:17:03I've got AppleCare on it.
0:17:05It's a secondary machine.
0:17:07And so if I have problems, it's not that big of a deal.
0:17:10But so far, I'm not going to go so far to say that I like the keyboard, because I really
0:17:19prefer the Magic Keyboard, the external one they sell with the Macs, and Federico I think
0:17:23you use with an iPad.
0:17:25But it's way better than the 2016 keyboard, I think, in terms of feel and sound.
0:17:29And we'll see how it holds up.
0:17:31Jon, you've got a 2016 MacBook Pro, right?
0:17:35I do and I have had problems with sticking keys.
0:17:38Nothing that's ever required me to take it into the store for fixing.
0:17:43They've always kind of dislodged themselves but I do have this constant tension especially
0:17:48if I go sit out in the backyard or something to work.
0:17:51Any speck of dust I see float by it gives me the willies a little bit.
0:17:55I was wondering Steven what do you think the display is because the display is True Tone
0:17:59now right?
0:18:00It is.
0:18:01The display and the touch bar both use True Tone,
0:18:05which of course basically just matches
0:18:07the color temperature of the screen to the room.
0:18:10I have it on on the notebook.
0:18:13I don't do a lot of design work,
0:18:15and when I do, it's on my iMac Pro.
0:18:18So, I think if I were doing a bunch of photos
0:18:21in Photoshop or something, I would turn it off,
0:18:23just like I would turn night mode off,
0:18:25or what is it called when it changes at night?
0:18:29Night shift.
0:18:30I turned that off too if I'm doing photo corrections or something.
0:18:34It's fine.
0:18:35It's very similar to an iPad where it's not noticeable until you don't have it.
0:18:40So if I'm working on my notebook and then I sit down at my desk, the iMac Pro looks
0:18:44blue because the iMac Pro doesn't have that.
0:18:48This is a feature that I probably like face ID.
0:18:52Once it's in one product, you just know it's coming to all the others.
0:18:56There was a rumor that the next iMac
0:18:58is gonna have some sort of screen upgrade.
0:19:01It's totally, True Tone will be there, I think.
0:19:04It's nice, but if you're a professional user
0:19:07who like colors really important to you,
0:19:08it's easy to turn off.
0:19:09It's just a checkbox in the displays, preference pane.
0:19:13Interestingly, it does give you the option
0:19:16when you set up the Mac as new.
0:19:19And so just like you do on iOS,
0:19:21it says True Tone is on.
0:19:24you know, tap here, click here to turn it off,
0:19:26and then you see it go from like a nice warm color
0:19:29to a blue color, and like, oh, leave it on, you know?
0:19:32And so they've inherited that from iOS.
0:19:35- Yeah.
0:19:36- And so far, I mean, it's fine.
0:19:37You know, I haven't, like I said,
0:19:39this weekend's gonna be the first time I've really spent
0:19:42a lot of time working on it.
0:19:43I basically have just set it up so far,
0:19:45but in 24 hours, no key has stuck,
0:19:48so I guess that's good.
0:19:50- Yeah, that's a positive.
0:19:51- Yeah, yeah. (laughs)
0:19:52- You got that going for ya.
0:19:54Yeah, it got something.
0:19:55So you know, I think it's so wild these machines have had such a rough entry into the world,
0:20:03right?
0:20:04You automatically have the keyboard drama where Apple said, "It's just for sound."
0:20:09And like an internal document says, "Well, it's actually for protecting against debris."
0:20:15And then you had the throttling issue and then Apple seems to have fixed that.
0:20:19It just seems like they can't win with the MacBook Pro.
0:20:22And I think there are a bunch of users,
0:20:25and I would count myself in this camp,
0:20:27where I got rid of my 2016,
0:20:29I went back to an old machine,
0:20:32and the 2018, the specs are what won me over,
0:20:35like having a quad-core 13-inch laptop
0:20:37has been what I've wanted for years and years,
0:20:41and now I've got one, and so I'm willing to put up
0:20:43with having to buy a bunch of USB-C cables finally,
0:20:47or dealing with a dongle, or risking the keyboard,
0:20:50because I finally have the power I want
0:20:52and the size that I want.
0:20:53And I think a lot of people are like that.
0:20:55I think a lot of people who use a MacBook Pro
0:20:58as their only machine,
0:20:59probably tempted by that six core i7 or i9
0:21:05because you've not been able to have
0:21:06that kind of power in a notebook before.
0:21:09You can get more cores in a MacBook Pro
0:21:10than you can in iMac right now.
0:21:12And I think a lot of people,
0:21:15just judging from people talking on Twitter
0:21:17and a couple emails I've gotten,
0:21:18that people who skip the 2016, 2017
0:21:23may finally be on board with the new design in 2018.
0:21:26And I don't know if that,
0:21:28if the specs are like a good enough goodwill
0:21:31for people to sort of get back on board with the MacBook Pro
0:21:35but it sure feels like that a lot of people
0:21:39are still concerned about the design,
0:21:42about the keyboard, about the battery life,
0:21:43about the ports, like there's a lot not to like
0:21:46about these machines.
0:21:46Bar, you know still in my in my experience at least not super useful most of the time
0:21:53and I'm paying a premium to have it on there.
0:21:55And so I just I wonder what's next for the MacBook Pro, you know, they're not going to
0:22:00roll back to having USB ports and SD card slot and that sort of stuff.
0:22:05But I do wonder what's next.
0:22:06I do wonder what lessons they're learning from this.
0:22:09I would hope that you know, whatever is after this, you know, the next time they redesigned
0:22:14the body, which maybe 2019 or 2020, if you look historically, that's about how often
0:22:20they do it, then maybe that machine would be a little more well-rounded, where this
0:22:24machine seems like a pretty extreme computer for what has got to be its mainstream flagship
0:22:34device.
0:22:35The one-port MacBook can be extreme because its whole identity is that it's thin and
0:22:43and to get that you give up things
0:22:47like a Thunderbolt controller and a fan
0:22:49and you get one port, but if you want thin and light,
0:22:52like that's the perfect machine for you.
0:22:54You know, my wife has one and every time I pick it up,
0:22:56I'm like, I really want one of these
0:22:58and then I realize that I don't have room in my life
0:23:00for a computer like that.
0:23:01- Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of skeptical as well.
0:23:05I mean, my experience has been okay
0:23:08and I generally like my 2016 MacBook Pro,
0:23:11but the whole situation surrounding these computers
0:23:15has caused me to really rethink
0:23:17what my next Mac will be like.
0:23:19I'm not gonna buy a 2018 model,
0:23:21I just don't need it right now,
0:23:22but I have thought long and hard about
0:23:25why did I get this machine in the first place
0:23:27and what's the best machine for me next time around?
0:23:30And I think I would probably go with an iMac Pro instead
0:23:34just because, I mean, I'd still have a laptop
0:23:37somewhere there, whether it's this 2016
0:23:39that just hangs around, assuming it survives,
0:23:42or something maybe a little more lightweight
0:23:45in terms of specs that I can take on the road with me
0:23:48if I do need to do something like audio editing.
0:23:51But, you know, I bought this 2016 MacBook Pro primarily
0:23:56because at the time I was still commuting downtown
0:23:59to Chicago and it was useful to be able to have a Mac
0:24:02on the train and that sort of thing.
0:24:04But I, you know, I work mostly from home now,
0:24:06and so other than the occasional trip,
0:24:09I don't have the needs for portability that I used to have.
0:24:11So I think I would probably go with something
0:24:13a little more robust and seemingly so far
0:24:16more reliable than the iMac Pro.
0:24:18- Yeah, I can see that working out well for you.
0:24:21You know, Federico, you and I spoke about this years ago
0:24:24about the idea that maybe you would end up,
0:24:26'cause you don't use a Mac very often,
0:24:27that maybe you end up with a desktop
0:24:29and just like have a place to go podcast
0:24:31and kind of have it there.
0:24:32But you're using a MacBook Pro.
0:24:33Do you have any sense of, you know,
0:24:36Is the laptop the right Mac for you when you need it?
0:24:39- I don't know.
0:24:42I mean, I guess if I had a bigger space,
0:24:44I would like to have something like an iMac,
0:24:49or just if the Mac Mini ever got an update,
0:24:53I would like to have a Mac Mini and a big display.
0:24:56I do find the display a little small for my taste,
0:25:00just because I'm sitting down at a desk
0:25:01and I'm looking at multiple windows when I do podcasts,
0:25:05because I need to keep track of the live chat and the Google document and Skype and talking
0:25:10to you guys. So it's a kind of task that I feel like I would prefer a bigger viewing
0:25:16area. So I would prefer to have an iMac or a Mac Mini with a display, but this is not
0:25:24possible right now because I have a smaller, you know, I have a small desk and I don't
0:25:28want to buy an iMac. But to answer your question, when I do podcasts, I would prefer to have
0:25:35a bigger desktop computer. Maybe in the future. I don't know. I would prefer a Mac Mini, I
0:25:40think. A Mac Mini and a proper big 4K display or something.
0:25:44Yeah, I mean, nice. And the Mini's so small, you can tuck it behind the display. It doesn't
0:25:47have to be out on the desk. You can have, effectively, an iMac setup where you just
0:25:52have a display and a keyboard and a trackpad or something. It'd be great. What a world
0:25:57where the Mac Mini could exist. I think it's interesting, too, talking to pro users like
0:26:04Like our friends who are developers or designers, so many people use notebooks as their computer,
0:26:11right?
0:26:12Exactly.
0:26:13Kind of like you were saying, Federico, like hook it up to a big display.
0:26:14And John, basically what you do, right?
0:26:16You have a display and a keyboard and a mouse and your MacBook Pro is kind of like off to
0:26:19the side somewhere.
0:26:21But the iMac Pro, and as good as the Retina 5K iMac has gotten, it does seem like desktops
0:26:27still have a place in this world.
0:26:29I think they do.
0:26:30I just I wish that Apple just give people more options like if you want a desktop
0:26:36Really, you just have the iMac and iMac Pro to choose from right now. The Mac Mini is not a viable choice
0:26:41There's not a Mac Pro
0:26:43That's worth talking about or buying and so we can see that coming with the desktop. We know the Mac Pro is coming
0:26:49And like we talked about last week, hopefully this fall
0:26:53They sort out the notebook line a little bit where it it makes the options make sense again and someone who?
0:27:00Maybe doesn't need an i9 or maybe doesn't even need a quad core 13 inch MacBook Pro
0:27:04But as you know, $1,100 to spend can get a good option. So I think we're moving back in that direction
0:27:10But it's just been sort of a painful road to get there
0:27:14Alright, I think it's enough Mac Mac talk. We're gonna with the home pod after I tell you about our second sponsor
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0:29:44Alright, so there was a report out late last week about, this is shocking, I know we've
0:29:50never had news from HomePod firmware before, but some news about HomePod firmware.
0:29:57It seems like there's some internal testing that may bring some new stuff to the HomePod.
0:30:04Federico, do you know what all is included in this potentially?
0:30:07Yeah, so the rumor says that according to some engineers who are testing the feature
0:30:12and possibly talking to the press about it, the HomePod will gain support for multiple
0:30:18timers. So that's one of the features that people have been complaining about since the
0:30:22HomePod came out, what was that, six months ago? I think around six months ago.
0:30:27Yeah, I think so. So multiple timers and you will be able to
0:30:31place phone calls directly using the HomePod instead of having to initiate the call from
0:30:36your phone and transfer it to the HomePod. That's one of the features that I'm really
0:30:40excited about actually because, you know, it's the perfect speakerphone. And also you
0:30:45will be able, it seems, to change Wi-Fi networks instead of having to do the full reset that
0:30:50you need to do now if you want to change the network that the HomePod connects to. Instead
0:30:56you will be able to, I suppose I have a setting screen where you will see the network that
0:31:01the speaker is connecting to and change that. I wanted to talk about, you know, reading
0:31:08this rumor. I mean, maybe I'm the exception here because I have three of these things
0:31:15and have actually considered a fourth one but ended up buying a Sonos one. I bought
0:31:20the Sonos one, don't worry.
0:31:22And look how well it's treated you.
0:31:25I know, right? None of this would have happened if the HomePod was alive. I mean, I obviously
0:31:31like the HomePod. And I use it a lot. I use it a lot for music, of course, especially
0:31:38for since we got the stereo pairing set up in the bedroom. I have a HomePod on my nightstand
0:31:44and another right here on the desk that I'm using to record this very podcast. And we
0:31:49set it up as a pair and now when we listen to music at night, we, you know, it's, we
0:31:55we can hear the stereo effect and we have two room-filling sounds.
0:32:01And the best aspect is, because the speaker is shared on the same Wi-Fi network, it means
0:32:06Sylvia can also control music from the music app and from Control Center, and she didn't
0:32:12have to do any setup, she just uses the speaker as a playback destination, which is great.
0:32:17And of course in the kitchen I use the HomePod a lot for setting timers, for asking about
0:32:23my calendar schedule for controlling lights and other homekit scenes, and also for creating
0:32:30reminders, which is something that I've been experimenting with lately, especially because
0:32:35I'm writing my iOS 12 review, and while there are not any reminders changes at all, reminders
0:32:43is a feature of shortcuts, and I've been playing around a lot with shortcuts actions that can
0:32:49automate reminders and integrate reminders with Siri and all that kind of stuff. So I've
0:32:53been seeing reminders using the HomePod a lot. And I wanted to ask you both how you
0:32:59use your HomePods now that it's been six months. And even though you don't have three of them,
0:33:04I'm curious to know if you like it, how much you use it, and if your family likes it.
0:33:09Yeah, so there's not really a big update on mine. I shared on the show that we have multiple
0:33:15Amazon Echo devices around our house and that's really the voice assistant that
0:33:22you know my family uses. News, multiple timers, music, home kit stuff, because
0:33:30everything in my house that's smart home is home kit and Amazon compatible. I had
0:33:35unplugged the Echo, put the HomePod in the kitchen, and it didn't go over very well
0:33:40with the family. I think a lot of it being Siri based frustration and sort of
0:33:47the lack of features that the Amazon Echo Echo has. So the HomePod is in my
0:33:55studio it's where it's been since I tried that experiment. I do use it often
0:33:59in the studio though. I listen to a lot of music on it. Even though I sit in
0:34:05front of an iMac Pro, the HomePod is actually directly behind me and sounds a lot
0:34:09better. So if I want to listen to music or if I'm, you know, filming b-roll for something
0:34:13or like cleaning up the office, that sort of thing, I very often will put music on.
0:34:18I also use it a lot for Airplay 2 to listen to podcasts. If I'm in the office and I'm
0:34:23not writing, I sometimes listen to podcasts while I work. And very often I also have my
0:34:28phone on the wireless charger on my desk and Airplay 2, a podcast to the HomePod, which
0:34:34is really simple and straightforward to do. And I use it a lot for home kit stuff.
0:34:39So everything but the overhead lights in here are hue lights and so I have a
0:34:45couple different sets so I have I can turn on my work lights which just bring
0:34:49up the two lamps. I've got a lamp on either side of my desk and then I have a
0:34:54scene called studio on which is those lights and the lights on the shelving
0:34:59for the collection and the light over on the other side of the room. I have a lamp,
0:35:03a three light lamp that has hue color changing bulbs in it
0:35:07so I can control those.
0:35:08It's a lot of home kit stuff.
0:35:10And I interact with it every single day.
0:35:13And for me, it works well for that.
0:35:18I don't do a lot of stuff outside of that.
0:35:20I'm not asking it for news or weather
0:35:23or some of the other echo type things that my family does.
0:35:28My thought is now, if this rumor comes to pass
0:35:32and it's got multiple timers,
0:35:33and so their stuff has improved.
0:35:35I'm gonna give it another run,
0:35:37having the HomePod in the house.
0:35:39I've become, I don't really get too far into this
0:35:42because it's really just like a feeling right now,
0:35:44like I haven't made any real decisions,
0:35:46but I have just kind of become like increasingly
0:35:50uncomfortable with the Echos,
0:35:53and some stuff that like Amazon allows on the platform,
0:35:56and Apple obviously has like a real big privacy stance
0:36:00that Amazon doesn't always have.
0:36:02And nothing bad has happened, right?
0:36:04Like this isn't, it's not even like a reaction
0:36:06to like that story that went around like a month ago
0:36:08about the echo sending an audio message
0:36:12to like a coworker of a private conversation.
0:36:14Like, I don't know, like I just feel like
0:36:16I would rather have something Apple,
0:36:19like Apple writes the privacy policy to,
0:36:21like in our kitchen or in our bedroom.
0:36:23And so I don't know, like that,
0:36:25I don't know really what that is yet.
0:36:26Just like sort of like this thought
0:36:28It kind of rattles in my brain every once in a while.
0:36:30And so, after this update is out, I think I'm going to try the HomePod again in the
0:36:35kitchen.
0:36:36If it takes off, then maybe we get one for the bedroom as well.
0:36:39And we sort of move away from the Echo.
0:36:43But I don't know if that's going to come to pass.
0:36:45I really want to see how this stuff pans out.
0:36:48And really, the multiple timers is like the thing for us.
0:36:53in our kitchen we use the Echo every single night when we cook. Almost seven
0:36:58days a week we have multiple timers set up on that at once and you can name them
0:37:02which is great so it's like hey you know set a pasta timer for 10 minutes set a
0:37:07sauce timer for 12 minutes and you can ask it hey how much time is left on the
0:37:12pasta timer. It's really well done and Apple should just copy it like the Echo
0:37:18does it correctly. The home pots do it the same way and if they can do that
0:37:21then it would it would overcome a lot of the frustrations we have with it as a
0:37:26family. Do you use it at all with your Mac at all, Steven? I mean, for instance,
0:37:31not so much for iTunes or music, but if you were watching a YouTube video, do you
0:37:35do you connect your Mac and your and your home pod to listen to that? No, mainly
0:37:39because the iMac Pro speakers are actually are actually pretty good. I've
0:37:43thought about putting some studio monitors in. I may end up doing that this
0:37:45fall, but right now I'm just have the iMac speakers themselves. Like, they're
0:37:49totally fine. If I play something on the AirPod, or on the HomePod, excuse me, usually because
0:37:55I'm in the studio but not at my desk and I just want to have music kind of louder or
0:38:00less directional. But I don't think I've ever actually paired it to the Mac, to be honest.
0:38:06My use of the HomePod is primarily for music too, and I've really liked it because for
0:38:11the longest time I had my Apple TV, and it's still hooked up to a home entertainment system
0:38:17in my living room and we have kind of a big, open,
0:38:20living room, kitchen space in our house.
0:38:23And so, when I wanted to listen to music,
0:38:26if I wanted to use the Apple TV,
0:38:28I had to have the TV on, set to the right inputs,
0:38:30and then I had to, you know, click around on a remote
0:38:32and find the playlist and all that stuff.
0:38:34Now I can just, you know, ask the lady in a can
0:38:38to play my playlist and it happens.
0:38:40And it's a little thing, but it reduces a lot of the hassle.
0:38:46Like, you know, say the phone rings
0:38:48and someone has to answer.
0:38:49It's very easy to just pause the music with your voice
0:38:52instead of having to go scramble to figure out
0:38:55where the remote is and hit pause.
0:38:58I used, it used to bug me too that
0:39:01you had to see something on the screen
0:39:04when you had the Apple TV.
0:39:05It didn't used to be like that
0:39:07way back in the day on the Apple TV.
0:39:09But I had a hack where I created a giant black rectangle
0:39:13and used that as the screen saver
0:39:14so I wouldn't have to have the--
0:39:15Good John, that's good. Hey, it's a it's in a club max stories issue from way back
0:39:20But yeah, that's what I would do because you know if you have like people over and
0:39:26You're chatting and you've got all that
0:39:29You've got these screensavers going people are just naturally attracted like
0:39:34Moths to the light and the image and they just end up standing there and staring at what's on your television
0:39:40So having that black. Yeah, very interesting friends John
0:39:44Yeah, well, I guess it probably does say something about me, yes. So, yes, now that doesn't happen,
0:39:50right? You just play it through the HomePod, which is great. And I've thought about getting
0:39:54one for my office, which is down in the basement, but I haven't quite gone there yet. I've got
0:40:01small speakers connected to my MacBook Pro, and I play iTunes through that. I think a
0:40:10A HomePod would be nice.
0:40:11At first I thought I wanted to do it
0:40:13because I could use the Siri integration
0:40:16and it would be a useful thing to do down in the basement,
0:40:18but I can use my phone for that.
0:40:20I don't really need the HomePod for that.
0:40:22It's really whether I want to have
0:40:24the better quality music down here.
0:40:25Beyond music, HomeKit is probably the number two use
0:40:31that I have for my HomePod.
0:40:33I use the HomePod to turn on my lights in my living room,
0:40:38and when I'm going down to work for the day,
0:40:41I'll tell it to turn the lights on down there.
0:40:43So that I use quite a bit and I'll set reminders.
0:40:47But beyond that, I don't do a lot,
0:40:50I don't add tasks to a task manager that often.
0:40:55It's mostly just setting reminders when something occurs
0:40:57to me while I'm cooking breakfast or something like that.
0:41:00- Yeah, I really hope that we're going to see
0:41:04some meaningful improvements to the HomePod in September.
0:41:08And I kind of wish that Apple had an open beta program, we've talked about this before,
0:41:12but even if it's just multiple timers and phone calls I think I will be okay.
0:41:17What I noticed in my use of the HomePods is that while initially I liked the ability to
0:41:23use a SiriKit third-party apps, it is really annoying to have to specify this syntax when
0:41:32you want to do something with a third-party app.
0:41:34It's really verbose and it's really slow.
0:41:36And I also think I've mentioned this on connected before, but if Apple ever does, you know,
0:41:42if Apple ever launches the ability for users to change default apps, instead of changing
0:41:49the, you know, the traditional idea of changing default apps, so changing the browser or your
0:41:55email client or your calendar, I would love to be able to change default apps for Siri.
0:42:01So instead of using, you know, the reminders app as a default, I would like to use things
0:42:06or using a different music application
0:42:11instead of Apple Music.
0:42:12Because I feel like using SiriKit
0:42:14and third-party integrations on the HomePod,
0:42:16you can really feel just how annoying it is
0:42:21to have to specify these little commands
0:42:25and this little syntax,
0:42:27otherwise Siri will not understand
0:42:29that we'll save data into the default apps.
0:42:33Note taking is another example.
0:42:36So yeah, I like the HomePod and I use it a lot of course
0:42:40and it's probably been a slightly bigger expense
0:42:44that it should have been
0:42:44because it's not available in Italy yet.
0:42:47But overall I think if Apple can continue to update it
0:42:51with new features and new integrations
0:42:54without having to release a new version
0:42:56of the product itself, like a HomePod too.
0:42:59I mean, I could see a smaller HomePod
0:43:02But I don't think Apple needs to do a new main home pot now.
0:43:06And if they can bring new features
0:43:09and maybe do a price drop this holiday season,
0:43:12I think it's, you know, especially if you spend
0:43:14a lot of time in the Apple ecosystem,
0:43:15it's a really compelling product.
0:43:17- Yeah, I think the comment about like,
0:43:20always improving it is key here.
0:43:23For a couple reasons, A, they have so much ground
0:43:26to make up, to catch up, 'cause they entered a market
0:43:29that was already up and running, like Apple often does.
0:43:32But I think too, I would like to see them
0:43:36be able to add things outside of the major iOS release cycle.
0:43:42And this is like a huge conversation we could have
0:43:45about iOS and macOS and everything
0:43:48that Apple doesn't update things often enough
0:43:51that point updates can be a big deal,
0:43:53but big features are always in like iOS 12.0 or 13.0.
0:43:58But if they have multiple timers ready,
0:44:00they should just push that out
0:44:01and not wait for a big release,
0:44:04especially on a device like,
0:44:05stay with me for a second,
0:44:08people don't think about the software on a device
0:44:12like the HomePod because they don't see it, right?
0:44:14We know that it has firmware and software
0:44:18and like has its own OS
0:44:19and it has all these things going on.
0:44:21It has basically an iPhone, what is it?
0:44:23Wasn't it an A8 or something processor in it?
0:44:26- Yeah.
0:44:27- It has a pretty powerful iPhone processor in it.
0:44:29Like this thing is, it's a computer.
0:44:31It is a computer.
0:44:32But because we don't see the software,
0:44:35we don't think about it.
0:44:36We just think about what the device itself can do.
0:44:38There's an abstraction there that is not present
0:44:41on something like the phone or the Apple Watch or the Mac
0:44:44where you either directly touch or manipulate
0:44:49with a cursor the software.
0:44:51And the software is the experience.
0:44:53The HomePod doesn't have that.
0:44:55The experience of the HomePod is Siri
0:44:56and what Siri can do.
0:44:58And I hope that we see them as things are ready.
0:45:03Hey, you know, maybe the release is like 12.1 or 12.2.
0:45:09Like don't wait for 13 if multiple timers are ready.
0:45:12Don't wait for 13 if you have phone calls ready to go
0:45:15or you've overhauled SiriKit in a way
0:45:17that makes it easier to work with.
0:45:19Like whatever it is, because these devices are different
0:45:22from those other products and I hope Apple can see that
0:45:25and treats them differently and evolves them,
0:45:29evolves the HomePod more aggressively
0:45:31than a big jump once a year.
0:45:33Because a year is a long time in this market
0:45:35because Amazon and Google are perpetually
0:45:40improving their products.
0:45:41You can sign up for an email every single Friday,
0:45:44you get an email from Amazon saying what's new
0:45:47with the Echo.
0:45:48And to be fair, a lot of that's third party,
0:45:51but a lot of it's not.
0:45:52A lot of it is Amazon improving its voice assistant directly, and Apple needs to, I
0:45:58think, kind of step up its game on those things, if it can.
0:46:03Anything else?
0:46:04Any other HomePod stuff?
0:46:06I guess we should mention that they are today having a public Q&A on the Apple support communities
0:46:16be called the Apple discussion boards where they're having Apple employees,
0:46:21support employees, talking to consumers about the HomePod. Apple always has
0:46:28support reps sort of hanging out in those discussion boards and occasionally
0:46:32you'll see an answer by somebody who's like a little Apple logo next to their
0:46:35name or whatever. But this is like a, like they announce it publicly and I haven't
0:46:39checked in to see how it's going. I figured someone's gonna write the
0:46:42article so I don't have to like wait through the discussion boards but I find
0:46:45that interesting that Apple is inviting direct communication about this product because when's
0:46:52the last time Apple's done that? It's not in their wheelhouse. I made the joke in my
0:46:57blog post about it that people could ask Apple directly why Siri was so bad, but I'm sure
0:47:03there'll be some of that. Why is it so expensive? Why is it not in Italy? All those sort of
0:47:06obvious questions. But I'm hoping to come out of this with some feelers on how the rest
0:47:11of the community feels about the HomePod,
0:47:13because I think, Federica, I think you're an outlier
0:47:16in your use of them and your sheer number of them.
0:47:19I think I wanna know what other people think about it,
0:47:22so I'm looking forward to seeing the Inevitable articles
0:47:24about this Q&A today and kind of seeing where people are.
0:47:29- Yeah, it's kind of like a HomePod AMA or something.
0:47:33I took a quick look before we started,
0:47:37and there's a lot of questions in there already,
0:47:39so I think it's supposed to start,
0:47:40If it's not starting now, it's starting very soon.
0:47:43- And just Tim Cook at a desk,
0:47:45answering questions about the HomePod.
0:47:48- That's right.
0:47:49- Yes.
0:47:50- Those support forms are really interesting.
0:47:51They've been around a long, long time.
0:47:55In fact, when I was in college,
0:47:58I spent a good bit of time there
0:47:59helping people answer questions.
0:48:01I had to give it up when I became a retail employee,
0:48:05but I learned a lot of stuff there
0:48:07in my early days of Mac troubleshooting
0:48:09and understanding how the system worked and everything.
0:48:12There's real value there if you have time to deal with it.
0:48:15I haven't logged in in probably 10 or 12 years,
0:48:17but I'm sure my old account is there
0:48:19with a bunch of advice about titanium power book batteries,
0:48:22in case you need that.
0:48:24Do either of y'all need that?
0:48:25Do you have any questions
0:48:26about the titanium power book battery?
0:48:27- I just wanna go back now
0:48:28and do a little bit of a Stephen Hackett retrospective
0:48:31on the titanium MacBook.
0:48:32- MacBook?
0:48:33- Power book.
0:48:34(laughs)
0:48:35- John. - Power book, sorry.
0:48:36(laughs)
0:48:37- John, what's the video about it?
0:48:38I'll link to the show notes.
0:48:40Okay, so we are gonna do some Connected Q&A.
0:48:43Thought it would be fun to have John on
0:48:47and answer some questions, provide some answers.
0:48:50Those two things go together.
0:48:52But first I wanna tell you about our final sponsor this week.
0:48:55This episode of Connected is brought to you by Anchor.
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0:50:10for giving aspiring podcasters an easy way to get started.
0:50:14- I have a question for you before we move on
0:50:16to listener questions.
0:50:18- Okay.
0:50:18- I've been having this problem since last night.
0:50:21My television turns on on its own
0:50:26and loads the Apple TV input channel.
0:50:30I have no idea what is going on.
0:50:32All I remember is that a few days ago,
0:50:35I have an LG 4K TV.
0:50:39It's the B50, I don't remember the name.
0:50:44Anyway, a few days ago, I opened the TV
0:50:48and I used the YouTube app of the TV itself
0:50:51because I find it better than the YouTube app
0:50:53for the Apple TV.
0:50:54And I needed to update the YouTube app
0:50:57from the LG web store,
0:50:59which is this thing that runs inside WebOS, basically.
0:51:03This TV has WebOS in it.
0:51:04And when I was updating the YouTube app,
0:51:07it said updating this app will also turn on
0:51:12wake on WiFi or something like that.
0:51:15That I assume is a feature that can wake your TV
0:51:18when it's connected to WiFi.
0:51:19Well, since last night, the TV just randomly turns on
0:51:24and it turned on at 4 a.m. and it woke us up
0:51:27and it turned on again at 7 a.m. and it woke us up again
0:51:30and Sylvia was really upset.
0:51:31And eventually I was just in my sleepy state,
0:51:34I just rolled out of bed and I just unplugged everything.
0:51:38Which, I wasn't thinking straight and then later
0:51:41I needed to troubleshoot my PS4
0:51:43because it wasn't shut down properly.
0:51:45I just pulled the plug on the entire thing.
0:51:48Because I was so upset. - I'm done.
0:51:50- I was like, yeah, that's fixed, we can go back to bed.
0:51:53But now I was looking through the settings
0:51:56and I cannot find this wake on Wi-Fi thing
0:52:00in the settings of the TV itself.
0:52:03And I cannot understand why it's also defaulting
0:52:07to the Apple TV UI.
0:52:08Almost as if the Apple TV is sending some kind of signal
0:52:12to the TV, but I don't know why.
0:52:14I don't know why would it send any kind of signal.
0:52:17So I don't know if you guys have any idea
0:52:21of what could be going on here.
0:52:24- Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that's what it is
0:52:25the Apple TV or something on the network is like pinging the TV or like you know
0:52:31poking it in some way across the network and the TV says oh it's time to wake up
0:52:34like I'd imagine you could turn that off it may be called like wake on LAN
0:52:38instead of wake on Wi-Fi it may be in there somewhere surely there's a way to
0:52:44turn that off or if not just do what John did and print a big black rectangle
0:52:51like on a printer and tape a bunch of sheets together and then hang that over
0:52:54the front of the TV and the problem will be solved.
0:52:58- Yeah, it could just be ghosts too if I were to go.
0:53:01You know, you can't rule that out.
0:53:02You can't rule that out.
0:53:03- Sure, all right.
0:53:04Now, moving on to connected Q&A.
0:53:07This is a question for you Mac people, I think.
0:53:13So Nick writes, "There's been a lot of buzz
0:53:16"around the Surface product line lately.
0:53:19"Do you think there's a market, technical hurdles aside,
0:53:22for a MacBook running Mac OS that could detach into an iPad running iOS like the Surface
0:53:28Book.
0:53:29I personally think it sounds like a very compelling product.
0:53:31Steven, would you like a MacBook that can become an iPad running iOS?
0:53:36And would Apple even release such a product?
0:53:38I think the idea of this product, there's two things here.
0:53:42One is the software, and I think that with iOS apps coming to the Mac next year, that,
0:53:51Like that's really what people talk about when they say, oh, I wonder if Mac OS or iOS.
0:53:54A lot of it is like, well, the iOS apps, like, so I think the majority of people who'd want
0:53:59something like this, marzipan iOS apps on the Mac may be enough to keep them happy.
0:54:06The hardware side, I think is an interesting component of this too.
0:54:12Apple really seems allergic to like convertibles and touchscreen Macs and, and that sort of
0:54:17thing.
0:54:18notebooks are the same form factor as they've been for 30 years and whether
0:54:24that's right or wrong I don't I don't know it's outside the scope of the
0:54:26question but I don't see Apple making something like this from a hardware
0:54:31perspective even if marzipan wasn't a thing but I think Apple is very
0:54:36conservative on its hardware design plus you have iOS apps coming to the Mac I
0:54:41don't think something like this is in our future. What about you John? You use
0:54:47both an iPad and a Mac offer? Yeah, I'm right there with Steven on this one. I think though
0:54:54too that what I'd like to see as opposed to the kind of convertible describing the question
0:55:02is more laptop-like functionality built into the iPad Pro line. So for instance, a smart
0:55:12keyboard cover with a trackpad, you know, some sort of cursor control, that sort of
0:55:16thing. Something that makes an iPad a little bit more Mac-like, so it comes a
0:55:23little closer to what the Mac is like, and then the Mac comes a little closer
0:55:27to what the iPad is like by bringing over the apps from iOS. I think that's
0:55:31more likely what we're gonna see as opposed to an all-in-one does-everything
0:55:36device. Yeah, personally I would love to have such a product. I really think that
0:55:41that if it didn't run Windows, I would be really interested in the Surface Book type
0:55:48of deal. I really think that Apple should look into this type of device that can transform
0:55:56into a laptop or a tablet. Also because they are already kind of halfway there with the
0:56:01iPad Pro. They sell, as a first-party accessory, a keyboard that transforms your iPad into
0:56:08a quasi-laptop form factor. So the idea is already there. I'm not so sold on the concept
0:56:14of having one type of OS when you're connected to a keyboard and loading another OS when
0:56:20you're in mobile mode. I think that's only a recipe for disaster and asking, you know.
0:56:27But the idea of making adjustments to the UI, for example, by making certain touch targets
0:56:34whether you're using a trackpad or a finger,
0:56:36I think that could be interesting.
0:56:39And it seems to me like the sort of feature
0:56:43that could be enabled if only you had a consistent UI framework
0:56:47between different OSes.
0:56:50So I'm just saying, but I don't think Apple has completely discarded this idea.
0:56:55I think before they do that, they want to have some kind of unification,
0:57:00not in terms of the OS, not in terms of unifying iOS and macOS,
0:57:05but unifying how the user interface can scale
0:57:10to different form factors and to different sizes.
0:57:14So I wouldn't be surprised if Apple does something
0:57:17along these lines, but not in the way
0:57:19that Microsoft is doing it, and not before late 2019 or 2020.
0:57:25So I guess we'll see, and we'll follow up with listener Nick
0:57:29about whether or not Apple is doing a Surface Book product.
0:57:34What's next, Steven?
0:57:37- All right, so Tim writes, "What can Apple do
0:57:39"to make using the web on an iPad
0:57:41"not a second-class experience with many sites
0:57:44"that just don't work?"
0:57:45Basically asking, "What would it take for the iPad
0:57:47"to get a desktop-class web browser?
0:57:49"Is it Apple's fault, or is it website creators
0:57:52"lumping the iPad in with other mobile devices?"
0:57:55- Hmm, that's a good question.
0:57:57I think it's, most people would say it's totally Apple's fault.
0:58:01I don't think it's totally Apple's fault.
0:58:02I think if you have a popular website,
0:58:06something like a banking website, for example,
0:58:08or, you know, just this week I was trying to buy tickets
0:58:12because Silvia and I were going on vacation in August
0:58:15and we need to take a ferry to go to this island.
0:58:18And I was trying to perform the checkout process
0:58:22to see how much the tickets would cost.
0:58:25And I couldn't use the buttons on that checkout page
0:58:28because they were not compatible with Safari.
0:58:30So is it Apple's fault or is it the, you know,
0:58:34should we blame the company that makes the ticketing website?
0:58:38I think the company that, you know,
0:58:40web developers that completely ignore tablets
0:58:44or even touch, any kind of touch device at this point,
0:58:48are just not keeping up with the times
0:58:49or they're not doing a good job.
0:58:52I think there's also, though, a concern or a discussion to be had about whether or not
0:58:58Safari for iPad specifically should behave like a bigger mobile browser or like a desktop
0:59:06browser that is running in a touch environment.
0:59:09And I think maybe Apple could make adjustments to Safari on iPad in a way that it doesn't
0:59:16behave necessarily like Safari for iPhone.
0:59:19I think it's incredible that over eight years into the iPad,
0:59:24Safari still doesn't have a proper download interface
0:59:28for downloading files from the web,
0:59:31or that sometimes when you're using an external keyboard,
0:59:36there are problems, there are bugs that,
0:59:41when you have the shortcut bar
0:59:47on top of the software keyboard.
0:59:50And when you use an external keyboard on an iPad,
0:59:52that shortcut bar is the only thing
0:59:54that you see at the bottom of the screen
0:59:55if you're typing into a text field.
0:59:58And the problem is that sometimes that shortcut bar
1:00:00can hide a website element.
1:00:02And so you need to do a lot of scrolling to make sure,
1:00:05and a lot of pinching and zooming to make sure
1:00:07that all the fields and the buttons that you need to use
1:00:10are clearly visible.
1:00:13And also, some folks who really don't like Safari for iPad
1:00:17would say Apple needs to have a cursor mode or some kind
1:00:21of desktop emulation mode to make sure that some websites
1:00:25can always be supported.
1:00:26And I think this is a discussion about whether or not
1:00:30Apple should accept the fact that some websites are never,
1:00:34ever going to be updated for touch.
1:00:38And this is a topic that I don't think
1:00:40we can answer in this Q&A segment.
1:00:44I think you can make the same argument for Flash websites,
1:00:47that they were never going to be updated.
1:00:49And Apple said, we don't care.
1:00:51We don't support Flash on iOS.
1:00:52And eventually, many of those websites
1:00:54were updated for HTML5.
1:00:58Honestly, I don't know what the correct answer is.
1:01:01I don't think that having a fake trackpad, sort of like iCab
1:01:06mobile does on iOS-- iCab is a third party browser.
1:01:10It's, I think it's got a fake trackpad mode that lets you have a cursor in the browser
1:01:15and sort of a desktop pointing control.
1:01:19I don't think Apple is going to do that, but also I think they should be more, they should
1:01:25be more, if they're not, I don't know what kind of internal discussions Apple has about
1:01:29this problem, but they should be, I hope that they are open to hearing from people who say
1:01:35My bank doesn't care about making their website work on my iPad.
1:01:40Can you do something to help me?
1:01:42Because I really don't want to buy a MacBook just to use that website.
1:01:45So it's definitely a concern, especially if Apple is asking people and is telling people
1:01:50to use their iPads as their only computers.
1:01:53And if those people come across a website that just doesn't work, who's to blame?
1:01:57If you're the customer, you blame Apple because you don't understand what's going on.
1:02:02And so maybe the customer is always right, and maybe Apple should cater to those problems
1:02:06and trying to figure out a solution to make sure that every website can work on iOS.
1:02:10But then again, it's a super complex problem, and I honestly don't know what the...
1:02:16I don't think there's a single correct answer.
1:02:18I think it's a combination of factors, and for sure web developers should try and keep
1:02:26touch in mind when designing websites.
1:02:31But also, on the other hand, Safari doesn't work well with the G Suite, you know, the
1:02:36Google web apps at all.
1:02:38And the Google web apps, the Google iOS apps sometimes don't offer the same features of
1:02:43the native clients that you can download on the App Store.
1:02:46So should Apple try and make Safari work well in desktop mode for Google web apps?
1:02:51I think so.
1:02:52I think they should make exceptions and I think they should try and make Safari more
1:02:57like Safari for Mac because I think it's incredible that on a 13-inch iPad Pro you cannot go to
1:03:03Google Docs on the web and use it like you can on a Macbook, a 13-inch Macbook. I think
1:03:08that's absurd. And I think it comes from a place of thinking of the iPad as a big iOS
1:03:14device whereas I would think of the iPad as a small Macbook at this point. But yeah, I
1:03:20don't know what the correct answer is.
1:03:21Yeah, this is a very frustrating situation.
1:03:24I run into this fairly often too, and I guess I'm a little surprised that the gap hasn't
1:03:30closed more quickly because to me it seems like, and a lot of what we're talking about
1:03:34here I think is cursor control and the ability to drag and drop things within a browser window.
1:03:40That's at least where I run into it more often than not.
1:03:44The reason I'm surprised that the gap hasn't been closed more quickly than it has is that
1:03:48But this strikes me as a business opportunity, both for the web service developers as well
1:03:54as Apple.
1:03:55I mean, there's money to be made here.
1:03:56There are people who are doing all of their work on iOS devices, and the fact that you
1:04:01can't use some of these services on Safari Mobile is long overdue.
1:04:08And I think when this gets solved, it's not going to be solved just by Apple or by web
1:04:14developers.
1:04:15by both of them making a few compromises and kind of meeting in the middle I think.
1:04:21All right what's up next?
1:04:24So Ben writes, "I recently went all iPad and I want to load some videos that I've saved
1:04:31on my iCloud drive.
1:04:32Is there a better way to play those than using the Files app because Files app requires me
1:04:38to download the whole video before I can play it and it doesn't support things like picture
1:04:44in picture. Federico, do you have any suggestions?
1:04:47Federico Piscopo Well, the obvious one would be you can still
1:04:51save videos to iCloud Drive, but from iCloud Drive either you open the video file, so you
1:05:02copy the video file into another player, such as Infuse or such as MPlayer or I think even
1:05:10read all documents as a video player. So you open videos from iCalll driving to something else,
1:05:18or you find a compatible video player that can open a video in place. So without having to
1:05:27create a duplicate copy, without having to copy from one place to another and therefore wasting
1:05:33storage on your device, you can just open a file using the native document browser and
1:05:42play straight within the player of your choice.
1:05:46And I think that maybe Infuse supports the iOS 11 files app, but the problem is that
1:05:54due to the way that the files app completely abstracts download management from the user,
1:06:02always going to have to wait for files to be cached offline, because even though you copy
1:06:10a file into iCloud Drive, at some point your device, without you knowing, will probably
1:06:18remove the download and display a tiny download icon, you know, the cloud with the downward facing
1:06:23arrow next to its title, meaning that if you want to watch that video offline you will have to
1:06:29to download it. So my suggestion, and I'm sorry, is don't use iCloud Drive because it
1:06:34doesn't let you control caching, it doesn't let you control downloads, and the only app
1:06:42that natively integrates with it is Files, and Files, you know, the quick look, I don't
1:06:48think it supports picture-in-picture the way you want, and also it doesn't support many
1:06:54different file formats. Honestly, I would just go with Dropbox and that allows you to select which
1:07:01files you always want to have available for offline consumption and it integrates with
1:07:06Infuse, it integrates with VLC. So yeah, don't use files, use something else and don't use iCoDrive,
1:07:15use Dropbox. Honestly, I'm surprised that QuickLook doesn't support Picture-in-Picture. I thought
1:07:21it was possible to just click the home button and put a video in picture-in-picture mode,
1:07:28but I guess the main problem is that files and QuickLook don't support something like MKV
1:07:35or other file formats besides H.264 and H.265 encoded ones. So, yeah, I don't think using files,
1:07:48if only for the caching problem is a good idea if you want to load a bunch of videos on your iPad.
1:07:53What I do whenever I travel is I either download files with Dropbox because I have a ton of storage
1:08:01that I pay for or I just copy everything into Infuse because I prefer the way that it looks
1:08:08and I prefer the way that it lets me manage all my downloads.
1:08:15Alright, moving on. Adam asks Steven, are you going to buy or keep any silver
1:08:22Macs from the current generation for your collection? I would guess most of
1:08:27yours are space grey by preference.
1:08:29Steven, what are you doing for the current generation?
1:08:32I've thought something about this. More in terms of iPhones, because I generally don't
1:08:38keep old iPhones, because I sell them to a friend or family member to help justify
1:08:43buying a new phone every year. Same thing with the Macs, right? Like I don't have my
1:08:48last two MacBook Pros. Like they were sold to friends or people on the internet or you
1:08:53know, whatever, because I, you know, need to buy something new or want to buy something
1:08:59new. And so my general thought is, in bringing any machine into the collection is that it
1:09:05needs to, it needs to hit one of two criteria. It needs to be historically significant for
1:09:10some reason whether that's because it's weird or interesting or was like the
1:09:13first of its kind or something that I have some sort of like nostalgia for.
1:09:19So like my Power Mac G3 all-in-one is not historically important. They didn't
1:09:25make very many of them but it was important machine to me growing up and so
1:09:28I wanted one. So at some point in the future I'm sure a Touch Bar Thunderbolt
1:09:343 MacBook Pro would come into the collection and if I were just going to do one, I'd probably
1:09:42do Space Gray because it wasn't the first Space Gray Mac.
1:09:47I think the 12-inch MacBook had Space Gray first, but it's like the default color for
1:09:52this generation, like all the press materials Space Gray.
1:09:54When you go to order one, Space Gray is the default option.
1:09:57I think this style of MacBook Pro, Space Gray, is sort of like the color people think about
1:10:03it.
1:10:04I like the silver, mine is space gray.
1:10:06But I think I would probably go with space gray
1:10:11for those reasons.
1:10:12But I don't think much about current stuff
1:10:16coming into the collection.
1:10:17I figure that's a problem for future Steven down the road.
1:10:20Like future Steven would love to have a trash can Mac Pro
1:10:23because that machine is super interesting
1:10:25and like a failure.
1:10:27And so historically it's really sort of fascinating.
1:10:30But they're still really expensive to pick one up use
1:10:32And so that's a problem for like Steven in, you know,
1:10:362028 or something like 10 years down the road.
1:10:38I can pick one up on eBay for 100 bucks.
1:10:40And so I guess check back in in 10 years
1:10:43and I'll tell you, but probably Space Gray.
1:10:45All right, we have another question for Federico.
1:10:51I use my iPad as a primary computer
1:10:53and I struggle with work images and graphics
1:10:56being mixed into my photo library.
1:10:59iOS heavily encourages to throw images
1:11:01into the photo library for easy access across applications?
1:11:04Do you have a workflow or some tools
1:11:06to clean up your library on a regular basis?
1:11:08- Yeah, there are workflows or shortcuts
1:11:14that you can create to filter screenshots
1:11:17in your library and delete them,
1:11:19or you can find apps on the App Store
1:11:22to just clean up screenshots
1:11:23and remove clutter from your library.
1:11:26But even in this case, my main suggestion is
1:11:28don't use Photos for assets that you need to put into another work
1:11:36apps or into a graphics editor.
1:11:40And in this case, I would say try and save everything
1:11:43in folders in iCloud Drive.
1:11:44Or generally speaking, in the Files app,
1:11:47even if you want to use Dropbox in Files,
1:11:50I try not to keep these kind of assets in Photos.
1:11:53Because even though Photos is great for--
1:11:56well, photos, it's not great for organizing this type of stuff
1:12:01like logos or templates that I need for my screenshots
1:12:07or for Mac stories or for automation
1:12:09even because I do a bunch of image manipulation
1:12:12using shortcuts.
1:12:14So even though it's really easy to save stuff into photos
1:12:18because there is a system-wide extension to save images
1:12:22and videos into photos, I would recommend to try and use files
1:12:27because it gives you more freedom to catalog everything
1:12:30using folders, to use tags, to use favorites.
1:12:35Especially if you're using iCloud Drive,
1:12:37you can mark certain folders as favorites.
1:12:39So I would say try not to use photos because it's really not
1:12:43designed to be that kind of utility to give you--
1:12:50you could use albums.
1:12:51you could use the like feature to organize assets
1:12:56and screenshots that way,
1:12:58but I've learned not to trust photos
1:13:02for that kind of workflow.
1:13:04So personally, I don't like to have my graphic assets
1:13:09and screenshots mixed together with my family photos
1:13:14and my dog photos.
1:13:15So I try and keep everything separate.
1:13:17- Yeah, I think that's really good advice,
1:13:20but if you do need to go back and clean up things,
1:13:23a couple apps that you can use are Best Photos,
1:13:26because that can do things like pull out similar photos,
1:13:30then you can pick one or two of among
1:13:32many multiple ones that are similar,
1:13:35and also Gemini Photos, which is from MacPaw,
1:13:39which is a little bit like their Gemini product on the Mac
1:13:42where it pulls out duplicate files,
1:13:43but Gemini Photos, like you would expect,
1:13:46only picks out duplicate photos as well as similar photos,
1:13:50blurry photos, screenshots, all that kind of miscellaneous junk
1:13:54you might find in your photo library that you want to be
1:13:57able to get rid of fairly easily.
1:13:59So both of those apps work really well to help clean up
1:14:02a photo library.
1:14:04We have another question, this time from Justin, who writes,
1:14:08why does Vitici release the iOS reviews once everyone already
1:14:12has the update?
1:14:13As a reader, it seems like it would be more useful
1:14:17to have a week or a couple of days beforehand
1:14:20to look at the review.
1:14:22- Well, the simple answer is because I like it
1:14:27and because the day that iOS launches,
1:14:30all the attention is on me.
1:14:32So that people have started to associate
1:14:34the day that iOS comes out
1:14:36with the day that my review comes out.
1:14:38And it's become a sort of a mini event, you know,
1:14:40for those who care,
1:14:41and thankfully there's enough people who care.
1:14:44The day that iOS launches to the public,
1:14:47it's the day of the Federico review of iOS.
1:14:49And if you paid attention in recent years,
1:14:53we've tried to expand what we do.
1:14:56In addition to the review,
1:14:57you can find podcasts that we recorded about it.
1:15:00You can find the ebook version.
1:15:03You can find extras on the Club MicroStories newsletter.
1:15:07So there's a bunch of things that happen.
1:15:08It's become this sort of little media event, if you will.
1:15:11And I think it's, you know, publishing it on the day that iOS, the new version of iOS
1:15:18goes live, is a sort of a free publicity boost in the sense that iOS is in the spotlight
1:15:25that day.
1:15:26And I've seen, you know, I've seen people share things like iOS is out and now you can
1:15:33also read Federico's review here.
1:15:35So the two things have started to sort of be tied together in the mindset of the audience.
1:15:43And I like it.
1:15:44I like it because there's this association between Apple releasing something and Mac
1:15:49Stories having the in-depth review about it.
1:15:53Releasing the review a few days before would be probably better for some people, would
1:15:59give readers more time to prepare for iOS, but it would lose that aspect of it's a public
1:16:08event iOS launching, and having it just be a random day before iOS goes live, I think
1:16:15it would, in the long term, it would negatively impact how much Mac stories and the review
1:16:23can be in the spotlight on that day.
1:16:26And also, I don't feel comfortable publishing the review with tons of information about
1:16:35an OS that is still technically in beta, even a couple of days before or a week before.
1:16:42I've had problems with this stuff in the past many, many, many years ago.
1:16:45It was a different Apple, it was a different Mac stories, but I just feel better if my
1:16:50review goes out like a couple of hours before the new version of iOS launches.
1:16:56So it's a combination of things, but most of all it's the fact that I see the iOS release
1:17:01day as an event and the fact that Mac stories can be associated with that.
1:17:09People remember, people think of Mac stories and people think of my review on that day.
1:17:16I prefer to have it, to have everything together.
1:17:20And I've used this strategy for a few years now and it keeps working.
1:17:27Every year is better than the year before, thankfully.
1:17:29I'm really lucky that people still care about this kind of long-form writing.
1:17:34So even though I understand the argument for doing another way, I'm happy this way, I feel
1:17:42more comfortable this way.
1:17:44And I just, I, very from a very personal perspective, I like the fact that people think of iOS release
1:17:53day with Mac Stories review day.
1:17:55Does that make sense?
1:17:56It makes a ton of sense to me.
1:17:58I think all those reasons are valid.
1:18:00Yeah, I think that in a very busy Apple press cycle with an iOS release, I think the Mac
1:18:05Stories is at the top of that list.
1:18:07And so I think it makes a ton of sense from a business perspective.
1:18:10And I agree with you, having a review out before the public release feels a little weird
1:18:17with the NDA.
1:18:19I did that thing about the dark mode in Mojave, which following the letter of the NDA was
1:18:25not allowed.
1:18:26But I did it because I thought it was interesting and people wanted to know about it.
1:18:30But I'm not sure I would do a full review before the release is out.
1:18:37The truth is there are going to be people who install it the second it comes out, but
1:18:42your review can also be part of their decision making if they want to do it on day one or
1:18:47not or if they want to do it, but then maybe tell their family.
1:18:52I think giving people more information at the time they need to make the decision is
1:18:55good.
1:18:56So I don't see any issue with the way that you do it at all.
1:19:00Well, I think that does it guys.
1:19:01We made it to the end of an episode.
1:19:05If you want to learn more, check out the links in the show notes.
1:19:08You can do it in your podcast app of choice or on the web, relay.fm/connected/202.
1:19:15Until Myke gets back, we're having a bunch of guests in, as you've heard the last couple
1:19:20of weeks.
1:19:21I think Myke is back actually next week, so John, thank you for filling in a couple of
1:19:25times.
1:19:26It's been a lot of fun to have you on.
1:19:27Sure, it's been fun.
1:19:28We will have you back.
1:19:29You can send us feedback on Twitter.
1:19:30Federico is @vittici.
1:19:33You can find me there as ismh.
1:19:36And maybe just, you know, Myke has been away.
1:19:40Maybe tweet at Myke.
1:19:41He's @imyke.
1:19:45Tweet him your favorite flower emoji.
1:19:47There's a bunch of flower emoji.
1:19:49Pick your favorite one and send it to him.
1:19:51That's a good idea.
1:19:52I think he would like that a whole lot.
1:19:54So do that to Myke.
1:19:55Hold on, Bob.
1:19:56We need a, we need also, I feel like we also need a code word.
1:20:00So in addition to sending the flower emoji, say something, try include your favorite Latin
1:20:08word.
1:20:09So an ancient Latin word.
1:20:12You made it a lot harder.
1:20:15Just flower emoji.
1:20:16Well, that gives Myke something to Google later on.
1:20:19I guess.
1:20:20Exactly.
1:20:21Keeps him busy.
1:20:22So there's the flower and the Latin word.
1:20:25Mine is going to be omnibus.
1:20:29is going to be Omnibus and the Rosenrogy. So there you go. Some culture, you know, some
1:20:34culture going on in these random requests for our listeners.
1:20:39Well, there you go. There's that going on. You can find Federico, of course, he's the
1:20:44editor-in-chief at maxstories.net. You can find Jon at maxstories as well. Jon, in my
1:20:49head, your title is like "Manager of Everything Federico Doesn't Want to Do." Is that some
1:20:55of your position at Max Stories?
1:20:57Yeah, that's all encapsulated within with an editor. Yes. Yeah editor of Mac stories editor is it's shorter
1:21:03It is it's it's a lot easier to understand. Yeah, and John working people find you on Twitter
1:21:09They can find me at J. Oh HN V double O R H double ES so many vowels in that last name
1:21:16I know just keep coming at you. We'd like to thank our sponsors this week text expander simple contacts and anchor and
1:21:23And until our next episode, gentlemen, say goodbye.
1:21:27Adios.
1:21:28Adios.
1:21:29Adios.