The Accidental Tech Podcast

178: Mama Needs That Pokémon


  to go back to your car analogy that's [TS]

  terrible gonna cut it [TS]

  well no but you gotta I was gonna say [TS]

  bad things about your analogy and I just [TS]

  gonna edit out of existence [TS]

  yeah I always ended at jokes don't land [TS]

  that's the past the privilege of being [TS]

  the editor right so we should start with [TS]

  some follow-up as always there are [TS]

  approximately seven hackintosh users and [TS]

  on the planet and every single one of [TS]

  them is written us to tell us how it's [TS]

  possible to get everything to work [TS]

  asterisk dagger double dagger double [TS]

  asterisk got some people also writing in [TS]

  saying oh I've had you know all your [TS]

  worries are founded i have a hackintosh [TS]

  and I ran into all the problems you [TS]

  described it's kind of a pain brother [TS]

  people like a lot of pain at all i got [TS]

  everything to work is going to follow [TS]

  right guides and do the right things and [TS]

  flash the right stuff and wait for the [TS]

  drivers to be updated with each update [TS]

  and it's not a problem moving these are [TS]

  two sets of people describing the exact [TS]

  same situation is generated from one [TS]

  person's perspective all you just do [TS]

  this series of steps and everything is [TS]

  fine and the other person's perspective [TS]

  all you got to do these series of steps [TS]

  before everything is fine like it's the [TS]

  same situation right just all depends on [TS]

  how you look at it and if it's something [TS]

  you enjoy doing or something you would [TS]

  find a hassle if we could kind of pick a [TS]

  theme of what we heard we were pretty [TS]

  much correct about the trade-offs about [TS]

  it is a pain sometimes for most people [TS]

  how much of a painting that being for [TS]

  you depends a lot on your component [TS]

  choices and that if you follow these [TS]

  guides and if you choose like exactly [TS]

  the components they say if you don't [TS]

  have like special needs and requirements [TS]

  so that I have to make this other Wi-Fi [TS]

  card work because that's the 1i have or [TS]

  whatever else like if you're willing to [TS]

  buy exactly there are components you're [TS]

  gonna find all new components to do this [TS]

  it's probably a lot easier and you'll [TS]

  have an easier time with it but if [TS]

  you're trying to get it running on [TS]

  components you already had for other [TS]

  reasons you might have a hard time I [TS]

  think that's pretty good summary [TS]

  actually Charles Perry wrote in and he [TS]

  had said hey you know you guys joked [TS]

  about apple store employees not knowing [TS]

  about the mac mini that actually [TS]

  happened to me in summer 2015 i was at [TS]

  the apple store and I told the sales [TS]

  person that I wanted to buy a mac mini [TS]

  and I got a blank stare and reply the [TS]

  salesperson had never heard of it for [TS]

  real [TS]

  so that is the thing that has actually [TS]

  happened [TS]

  that's awesome i always wonder about the [TS]

  training they get like I thought every [TS]

  apples above it used to do it like they [TS]

  would fly off to cupertino and give you [TS]

  this whole training course and I could [TS]

  be briefed on Apple's entire line and [TS]

  it's a type of thing where you're not [TS]

  gonna remember everything they tell you [TS]

  they're gonna fill your head with a [TS]

  bunch of information and especially if [TS]

  you're new to a ball you you can't [TS]

  remember all the details but i would [TS]

  think that for getting an entire line of [TS]

  computers exist especially when apple's [TS]

  mac product line doesn't contain that [TS]

  many products in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things would be think that wouldn't [TS]

  happen so I think they must have dropped [TS]

  their training a little bit for the [TS]

  floor staff for the salespeople well i [TS]

  mean this is this is what happens with [TS]

  every retail place you know like the [TS]

  Apple stores are really big there's lots [TS]

  of them and they have to hire lots of [TS]

  staff from what we've heard rumblings of [TS]

  here and there it seems like maybe they [TS]

  don't pay as well as they used to or [TS]

  whatever reason they have a hard time [TS]

  you know attracting an indoor training [TS]

  high quality staff consistently to end [TS]

  up getting like yes there are some [TS]

  people there who really know their stuff [TS]

  but a lot of them don't because that's [TS]

  just the reality of hiring a massive [TS]

  retail staff these days indeed all right [TS]

  we should also talk about the crazy [TS]

  weird mouse that I believe John had [TS]

  brought up last episode [TS]

  yeah i think it was called the iso point [TS]

  track bar from outbound back from the [TS]

  eighties well this design apparently [TS]

  lives on probably because they bought [TS]

  the patents for it or the patents [TS]

  expired because it was so long ago in [TS]

  contour designs roller mouse which is [TS]

  the thing that you can buy for your [TS]

  computer today apparently and it looks [TS]

  like kind of one of those keyboard wrist [TS]

  rest things that you should never ever [TS]

  actually rest your wrists on it's got [TS]

  some buttons and the right along the top [TS]

  edge of it it's got the little roller [TS]

  ball thing you can roll back and forth [TS]

  like a little pencil for vertical and [TS]

  slide left and i'm not quite sure if the [TS]

  bar itself slides if it's just like [TS]

  touch sensitive or whatever there's a [TS]

  youtube video of someone messing with it [TS]

  and doesn't still doesn't quite make it [TS]

  clear because youtube videos not very [TS]

  illuminating but anyway this still [TS]

  exists [TS]

  youtube is very good at that youtube is [TS]

  very good at having lots of videos that [TS]

  report to review a product but don't [TS]

  actually tell you the useful information [TS]

  about that product they just kind of [TS]

  like [TS]

  hold it up and spin around or unbox it [TS]

  and they don't actually try it or show [TS]

  you or do anything useful [TS]

  not that I'm complaining but you need [TS]

  that you need to have different camera [TS]

  angles like what you need to do it like [TS]

  if you don't understand how this product [TS]

  works which I you know I have some [TS]

  questions like oh does the bar slide [TS]

  back what you need like close-ups and [TS]

  like macro photography and cutaways and [TS]

  if you can't just have one continuous [TS]

  shot of a person sitting in a desk you [TS]

  know connecting it to the keyboard and [TS]

  showing it's got a little feet and it's [TS]

  got a little connectors got a little [TS]

  this but just like you're too far away i [TS]

  can't see what you're doing with your [TS]

  fingers you need to need a multi-camera [TS]

  multi-shot edited sequence instead of [TS]

  just one big long take usually when I'm [TS]

  review when i'm looking for product [TS]

  reviews on youtube for a product i'm [TS]

  considering buying at least half the [TS]

  videos i find i suspect i'm the first [TS]

  person to ever have watched them [TS]

  regardless what the view counts that [TS]

  does must all be bought [TS]

  I think I'm the only person who's ever [TS]

  watched it including the Creator I don't [TS]

  think they've even watch it because if [TS]

  they watched it they would notice all [TS]

  the problems or at least some of the [TS]

  problems like hey you can barely hear [TS]

  what they're saying or you know you [TS]

  could have cut out like this entire [TS]

  segment or unfortunately most commonly [TS]

  this entire video serves no purpose and [TS]

  adds nothing to the world I'm sorry [TS]

  well son I have really high production [TS]

  values we can tell they really nailed [TS]

  like the lighting and it's crisp and the [TS]

  audio is really good but but they didn't [TS]

  actually provide good product revisit an [TS]

  athlete the close-ups and and different [TS]

  test [TS]

  none of those people review microphones [TS]

  yeah the montelucia the most fun thing [TS]

  is what I'm looking for [TS]

  not specifically videos but usually it's [TS]

  what i find for like questions I have a [TS]

  household stuff like how to repair the [TS]

  self raising like how to repair record [TS]

  this blind raising mechanism thing or [TS]

  something or how to fix a flapper on [TS]

  your toilet or whatever and if you're [TS]

  looking for like this specific make and [TS]

  model and seeing how summary what I was [TS]

  doing that replacing the battery in my [TS]

  key fob or whatever right [TS]

  those are the best videos because these [TS]

  are not professional youtube races just [TS]

  a person who just says look I've decided [TS]

  to film myself doing this thing and like [TS]

  they're holding their camera under the [TS]

  chin against their chests tend to film [TS]

  their two hands at the exactly the [TS]

  camera is a candy bar phone from 1997 [TS]

  and and they're talking really weird [TS]

  because the chain is holding the camera [TS]

  while their fingers fumble and i love [TS]

  these people you know why because if [TS]

  they didn't do that terrible video they [TS]

  would be zero videos on the entire [TS]

  internet like I just want to see one [TS]

  other living human do this and they do [TS]

  it like all that explains it like it's [TS]

  so much better to have a video than no [TS]

  video so i would encourage everybody [TS]

  that if you're even remotely thinking of [TS]

  putting a video about how you repair the [TS]

  specific toilet seat that you have for [TS]

  some specific eighties toilet do it put [TS]

  it up online [TS]

  nobody if it has five years it doesn't [TS]

  matter if i'm one of those five I'm like [TS]

  thank you thank you for putting this [TS]

  online because it's so hard to find any [TS]

  information about certain things i love [TS]

  the fact that people are doing [TS]

  especially about home stuff are doing [TS]

  home repairs and filming themselves [TS]

  doing it and filming their mistakes and [TS]

  I don't care the audio is horrible i [TS]

  don't care that it's all blurry I don't [TS]

  care the camera shaking i wish there [TS]

  were more of them now I mean I'm just [TS]

  saying like if you're going to review a [TS]

  microphone [TS]

  what is the one thing that somebody [TS]

  watching that review might be interested [TS]

  in that video containing an audio sample [TS]

  from the microphone go look at it like [TS]

  pick a microphone go to youtube and [TS]

  search for video reviewing that [TS]

  microphone and see how many you can find [TS]

  it actually contain an audio sample of [TS]

  the person talking to that microphone [TS]

  let alone what would be more useful is [TS]

  maybe comparing it back to back to like [TS]

  one other microphone maybe the one built [TS]

  into the camera or the phone would be [TS]

  good enough just compare it to something [TS]

  else but you can't even find samples of [TS]

  people talking into the mic [TS]

  I cannot believe like a man that I'm in [TS]

  the wrong business [TS]

  got to take over YouTube but i bet they [TS]

  show you the microphone coming [TS]

  out-of-the-box they show you all the [TS]

  different outfits you can put on the [TS]

  microphone and show you show you all the [TS]

  articulations and different points I'd [TS]

  like it's like the toy rabbit videos of [TS]

  template upon which all product reviews [TS]

  on YouTube are based and it's probably [TS]

  okay for if you're unwrapping toys but [TS]

  probably not good for a product that [TS]

  actually is supposed to do something is [TS]

  difficult like especially for something [TS]

  like an input device or a chair or [TS]

  something like that you r it's not [TS]

  actually easy to illustrate in video all [TS]

  the different features because you do [TS]

  need lots of weird camera angles and [TS]

  camera rigs to get lighting in the [TS]

  place to sort of convey the you probably [TS]

  diagrams at a certain point like with [TS]

  overlaid on top of the video it's not [TS]

  it's not an easy gig response to tonight [TS]

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  all right there is another item to [TS]

  follow but I told myself i wouldn't [TS]

  bring up but I don't want to get yelled [TS]

  at later there's a bullet this is [TS]

  casey's ongoing I'm a close which I [TS]

  don't want to talk about because i don't [TS]

  want the internet telling me about how [TS]

  wrong I am about everything so we can [TS]

  move along [TS]

  oh we already talked to you about it in [TS]

  slack but I think we need to talk about [TS]

  it again i really want to talk about [TS]

  this you need to bring your imac for [TS]

  repair and you won't know I thought yes [TS]

  that's actually the yes that's the [TS]

  summary is that so how can I could [TS]

  briefly recap this so let me put on my [TS]

  summarize the chief summarizer in chief [TS]

  hat so a couple episodes ago I sounded [TS]

  like garbage because my imac croaked in [TS]

  the middle of recording no it did not [TS]

  involve water or any other liquid Thank [TS]

  You the entire internet for making that [TS]

  joke anyway so it croaked in the middle [TS]

  of recording it hard froze rebooted [TS]

  itself that this had happened I had [TS]

  noticed from time to time but it had [TS]

  never been during recording so it didn't [TS]

  really make that big of a difference the [TS]

  only thing I lost out on was plex [TS]

  couldn't see my media files because it [TS]

  wouldn't auto reconnect to the synology [TS]

  so anyway so this happens suddenly I [TS]

  actually need to take action on things [TS]

  because it affected the show and that's [TS]

  no bueno so i tried to figure out what [TS]

  to do i did a hardware test and after [TS]

  much cajoling from a from mr. siracusa [TS]

  it showed no problems i think im gonna [TS]

  try one or two other things but what I [TS]

  ended up doing was I swapped out my mac [TS]

  sales ram i had gotten 32 gigs of ram [TS]

  for this thing the moment i bought it [TS]

  and I put in the eight gigs of OEM ram [TS]

  and that's what's running it right now [TS]

  and it seemed to me [TS]

  empirically that it's a little go about [TS]

  a week before it has one of these locks [TS]

  and reboots itself and up until this [TS]

  morning it had been eight days since I [TS]

  had any such problem this morning I went [TS]

  to not unsleep it but you know that the [TS]

  screen it's slept with the the machine [TS]

  was still on so i hit the spacebar on my [TS]

  keyboard in order to wake the thing up [TS]

  and the backlight on the screen came on [TS]

  but I could see nothing i ended up [TS]

  forcing a rebooted hard reboot and look [TS]

  the console when it came back up and it [TS]

  had a bazillion messages i don't have a [TS]

  hand in front of me but something along [TS]

  the lines of I can tell that the GPU [TS]

  drivers not responding and that's [TS]

  probably not good [TS]

  so my hopeful and I person I stand by my [TS]

  going theory is that it's the non OEM [TS]

  ram that's pissing it off and causing [TS]

  problems but I have nothing but [TS]

  anecdotal evidence to go on and John and [TS]

  marco both are insistent that I take [TS]

  this thing to the genius bar but I [TS]

  really really really don't want to [TS]

  because it is a royal pain to bring it [TS]

  there let alone be gone but you haven't [TS]

  been gone for like a week or more only [TS]

  for genius to say jesus never happened [TS]

  to me everything looks good here here [TS]

  you go [TS]

  come back if it happens again so I don't [TS]

  wanna bother with it and i will i would [TS]

  rather just deal with the eight gigs of [TS]

  ram and then maybe start whining it at [TS]

  mac sales or other world computing [TS]

  whatever they call themselves wine at [TS]

  them and see if i get replacement sticks [TS]

  if that really does seem to be the [TS]

  problem but what hold on if you if [TS]

  you're gonna keep the owc ram out of the [TS]

  computer and going to have this problem [TS]

  occasionally you know it's not the room [TS]

  what exactly do you expect odeon owc to [TS]

  do about that because you know but you [TS]

  just said you're so I still think it's [TS]

  the ram but it just froze when the ram [TS]

  wasn't in it [TS]

  how does that even has any work no no it [TS]

  was a different kind of freeze it was a [TS]

  very different kind of free blacks [TS]

  matter serious i'm not trying to be [TS]

  funny [TS]

  gotta get so many you are being very [TS]

  funny I I understand different kind of [TS]

  fries with a problem it's another thing [TS]

  that your Mac shouldn't be doing right [TS]

  like especially since you're not doing [TS]

  anything with you don't have any weird [TS]

  programs that you're running or you're [TS]

  not stressing is just sitting there idle [TS]

  essentially and you come back to it you [TS]

  can't get it to wake up and you see a [TS]

  bunch of GPU messages and the thing [TS]

  yeah but that was the first time I'd [TS]

  ever seen anything in the console any of [TS]

  the other times locked up there was it [TS]

  was like it it was running and turning [TS]

  and chugging along fine and then next [TS]

  thing you know I co boot time you're [TS]

  grossly overblowing the effect this [TS]

  problem house on me with the exception [TS]

  that one episodes I do genuinely feel [TS]

  deeply sorry about with the exception [TS]

  that one episode it has never really [TS]

  cause any problem for me and I think [TS]

  that today's freeze was just a fluke of [TS]

  modern computing don't know this doesn't [TS]

  happen [TS]

  that that is not that is not the [TS]

  behavior of healthy hardware that is not [TS]

  normal that is not something you should [TS]

  just consider you know what that's [TS]

  acceptable i'm going to live with that [TS]

  forever know and especially because like [TS]

  you know this is gonna run a warranty at [TS]

  some point if you didn't get [TS]

  applications going to be in what six [TS]

  months like it [TS]

  this is not normal this is this is not [TS]

  supposed to happen this is not [TS]

  acceptable you something in there is [TS]

  broken and it is most likely not the ram [TS]

  that is not currently in the computer [TS]

  when this problem is still happening it [TS]

  was a different problem [TS]

  well it might have reacted worse with [TS]

  that ram maybe it sounds like there's [TS]

  something wrong with the GPU or the [TS]

  logic board whether or not it is worse [TS]

  with the odbc ramen it [TS]

  the fact is this problem exists without [TS]

  the odbc remnant so therefore that ram [TS]

  is not the problem that ran might be a [TS]

  problem but it is not the problem here [TS]

  I'm assuming you google the error [TS]

  message because like to rule out [TS]

  software type of bugs or it's like oh [TS]

  you don't announce to you this version [TS]

  of OS 10 ships or macro and still almost [TS]

  Enright got this transition is gonna be [TS]

  rough shirts with a driver for your [TS]

  particular GPU that is flaky in this way [TS]

  usually googling for the console message [TS]

  will lend you a hundred people asking [TS]

  the same question on Apple's discussion [TS]

  forums none of which are actually [TS]

  getting an answer but then you can kind [TS]

  of like ballpark like look at this is [TS]

  the thing that's happening to a lot of [TS]

  people you know as judged by like [TS]

  whatever ratio you know commands people [TS]

  to go on to apple discussion forum to [TS]

  talk about like for every one person you [TS]

  see there there's probably like hundreds [TS]

  more who don't know where this [TS]

  government forms are but I've had [TS]

  situations like this and it doesn't mean [TS]

  that the software problem you see other [TS]

  people having it but occasionally you [TS]

  get lucky you'll see that oh actually [TS]

  I'm someone who knows whether an apple [TS]

  employee or not and there's a bug in [TS]

  this driver for this and video GPU or [TS]

  whatever is something you have in years [TS]

  but anyway and that's what the problem [TS]

  is and the software update either has [TS]

  fixed it or we'll fix it or whatever [TS]

  like so it's still conceivable that GPU [TS]

  like that freeze thing could be a [TS]

  software issue right the hard rebooting [TS]

  with no messages and the console [TS]

  definitely looks like a hardware thing [TS]

  like you said you haven't had [TS]

  that whether i'm out who knows but [TS]

  either way either of these things I [TS]

  think are a problem so maybe maybe you [TS]

  kind of convince me with your reticence [TS]

  to bring this thing and maybe wait for [TS]

  the next one the next fries and see that [TS]

  with the ram still out like you get a [TS]

  repeat of the GPU thing or do you get [TS]

  the hard reset e-type thing I still [TS]

  think it's weird that the ram test would [TS]

  pass maybe the ramp tester not [TS]

  particularly thorough you need to run [TS]

  those tests like go through every bite [TS]

  of ram like hundreds of times and runs [TS]

  for days at a time to really test it i'm [TS]

  not entirely sure but anyway all this is [TS]

  to say that both Marco and I have 5k [TS]

  imax and ours just don't do this [TS]

  so you shouldn't you shouldn't accept [TS]

  this is a state of being and I you [TS]

  should resign yourself to take this big [TS]

  heavy computer in three times not once [TS]

  because the first time you take it and [TS]

  if you're lucky they'll find something [TS]

  wrong but they're probably send it back [TS]

  to you and said it's fine now you have [TS]

  to wait for it to happen again you have [TS]

  to bring it again they say it's fine [TS]

  then you have to wait for it to happen [TS]

  again then you bring again after they [TS]

  denied you three times then you get a [TS]

  satisfaction of some kind or you get to [TS]

  be a more indignant about it [TS]

  okay well let me just make a couple [TS]

  things very plain because apparently [TS]

  nobody's listening to me [TS]

  I did the apple hardware diagnostic test [TS]

  or whatever it is called when you start [TS]

  the computer and mash down on the D key [TS]

  it i did this with the owc ramen and it [TS]

  said everything's peachy keen [TS]

  every everything was fine that's what [TS]

  I'm saying like maybe it runs like a [TS]

  Wimpy ram testing rightful Ramdass takes [TS]

  really really long time so it doesn't [TS]

  you know what because I'm suspicious of [TS]

  the ramp to write so maybe the a barber [TS]

  test didn't test it thoroughly or maybe [TS]

  it didn't trigger the problem or [TS]

  whatever but like with this kind of [TS]

  intermittent problem that happened you [TS]

  know you get like a weird crash it used [TS]

  to be every few days now it's like once [TS]

  a week right [TS]

  yep used to be about once a week once a [TS]

  week it has happened once which it to be [TS]

  in to be fair was about eight days after [TS]

  i put the old the stock ram in it has [TS]

  happened once and on the surface that [TS]

  looks like it's probably the same crash [TS]

  but like that earlier I'd never ever [TS]

  ever seen any console messages [TS]

  previously and i should add that it [TS]

  would always just reboot itself and this [TS]

  time it did not it was it seemed like it [TS]

  was fine until it powered on the [TS]

  backlight and then it just could it [TS]

  wouldn't show anything on screen so i [TS]

  don't think this is the same thing it [TS]

  either way these are these are two [TS]

  different symptoms [TS]

  of some kind of underlying problem that [TS]

  is probably the same problem with the [TS]

  breath at ODC ramen it so it probably is [TS]

  not the ramp it's probably a problem [TS]

  with apples hardware in here and [TS]

  normally functioning computers don't [TS]

  behave this way normally functioning max [TS]

  don't behave this way even max running [TS]

  betas don't behave this way tips on the [TS]

  chat room says his beta hardware doesn't [TS]

  behave this way something is wrong [TS]

  whether or not the hardware test passes [TS]

  or fails it does not say there isn't a [TS]

  problem it just says whatever that is [TS]

  testing for is or isn't failing at that [TS]

  moment what that means to you is that [TS]

  this will be annoying to get fixed but [TS]

  that doesn't mean there isn't a problem [TS]

  it just means the problem didn't happen [TS]

  during that test so inappropriate [TS]

  analogy to the situation is on my car [TS]

  every great once in awhile this stereo [TS]

  decides to turn itself off and then turn [TS]

  itself back on it is mildly inconvenient [TS]

  mildly inconvenient and then one time [TS]

  one time I was in the middle of a [TS]

  podcast and I had no idea where I wasn't [TS]

  that podcast in terms of like the time [TS]

  stamp or anything and then it restarted [TS]

  itself and i had to start the podcast [TS]

  over because I just couldn't find where [TS]

  i was in the podcast whatever reason [TS]

  that's the analogy I'm not taking my car [TS]

  to the shop for them to say oh we can't [TS]

  reproduce it four different times just [TS]

  so they can say oh we can't reproduce i [TS]

  do not have the confidence but there's [TS]

  no reasonable hope of the BMW or [TS]

  whatever fix a problem like there's no [TS]

  reason to hope in the Apple Pete that [TS]

  all gone yes no there is a reasonable [TS]

  hope that you will get some kind of [TS]

  satisfaction from apple that I know I've [TS]

  dealt with these problems before cardio [TS]

  forget it you have some electronic [TS]

  grandmother your car [TS]

  there's no hope I don't even bother like [TS]

  maybe try together once but it's not [TS]

  like they have they don't deal with [TS]

  electronics like they can fix your [TS]

  mechanical parts but in general unless [TS]

  there's some sort of well we flashed [TS]

  with the manufacturers latest ball they [TS]

  have no idea about the electronics in [TS]

  your car and have that stuff doesn't [TS]

  work right even when it's working [TS]

  entirely according to you know like it's [TS]

  working perfectly this is exactly i was [TS]

  designed just filled with bugs that are [TS]

  never getting it fixed but for hardware [TS]

  like I had something like thunderbolt [TS]

  display which is really weird and flaky [TS]

  and had to keep bringing in bring it in [TS]

  but eventually I think eventually you [TS]

  they will give you an entirely new [TS]

  inside or an entirely new refurbished [TS]

  thing or you know like you will [TS]

  especially when it's under warranty is [TS]

  relatively new [TS]

  now is the time to start going through [TS]

  the annoying sequence because it will be [TS]

  worse if you just let the slide and the [TS]

  warranty runs out and you just ignored [TS]

  for years at a time by this thing and [TS]

  then your only recourse is that point is [TS]

  to pay off some of your own might do it [TS]

  while it's still under warranty with [TS]

  apple you will eventually something [TS]

  eventually will happen is not a hundred [TS]

  percent chance it's going to get fixed [TS]

  but it's 90 and it's way higher than the [TS]

  car dealer fixing something about [TS]

  electronic in your car so let me just [TS]

  plainly stated will be in the show notes [TS]

  but the actual error on the most recent [TS]

  time when the back light came on and [TS]

  nothing was on screen was windows server [TS]

  colon GPU driver appears to be hung [TS]

  parentheses over five continuous seconds [TS]

  of unreadiness that was the actual error [TS]

  the only thing I could come up with on a [TS]

  quick google search as i'm recording is [TS]

  the stupid mac pro so the macros [TS]

  haunting me [TS]

  you know what's really comment on the [TS]

  mac pro GPU failures [TS]

  go figure the also consider that this is [TS]

  my second or remember that this is my [TS]

  second retina 5k imac and I'm already [TS]

  kind of not wanting to deal with going [TS]

  back to the apple store and it is not [TS]

  that far from my house don't be creepy [TS]

  but I just don't want to deal with it in [TS]

  in there are people that are in the chat [TS]

  i'm sure people listening to this that [TS]

  are furious with me that I'm not leaping [TS]

  into my car to get this back guarantee [TS]

  you everybody is really connected [TS]

  let's let's see this is our well-being [TS]

  yelling at their pockets come on [TS]

  whatever I just I i have it these things [TS]

  have a year warranty do they not that [TS]

  generally generally how this works [TS]

  ok i bought this thing in like late [TS]

  january maybe mid January at the [TS]

  earliest i can look it up [TS]

  I have plenty of time to make myself [TS]

  happy and let this run with my piddly [TS]

  eight gigs of ram for another month and [TS]

  see if it crashes and how often it [TS]

  crashes and what the story is because if [TS]

  it is as simple as it doesn't crash with [TS]

  the stock ram then ok I get different [TS]

  ram I either by different ram i live [TS]

  with it with eight gigs ram it actually [TS]

  is working just fine to be honest with [TS]

  you except that every bit of this [TS]

  morning [TS]

  owc replace the ram like I obviously [TS]

  replace around after like eight years [TS]

  with me like they're really have a [TS]

  ridiculously good warranty [TS]

  ya know it's it's not the ramp it's it's [TS]

  not all the Rams unable to compete [TS]

  but anyway I gave don't think you're [TS]

  gonna you're gonna let it if you're [TS]

  going to sue for another month just like [TS]

  it's going to be a kind of a pain to [TS]

  find the stuff and console later [TS]

  especially if it like Jesus up the logs [TS]

  and everything and you have to go [TS]

  hunting through this [TS]

  make a note of a copy and paste all the [TS]

  surrounding log lines reboot make a note [TS]

  of the date and the time because if you [TS]

  don't do this while it's happening there [TS]

  will be pain to go back and research [TS]

  later then you can come to the genius [TS]

  bar and she was like look here's a [TS]

  record of all the stuff that's happened [TS]

  here the console.log surrounding the [TS]

  events and you can plot them out and say [TS]

  how many days there were between them [TS]

  and all the stuff that will be very [TS]

  useful for you [TS]

  I agree and I i would suspect that there [TS]

  will come a time that I will have to [TS]

  bring this in because it's just [TS]

  something happens that makes me think [TS]

  okay it's not the ram and yes I [TS]

  understand market that you can do a mark [TS]

  hashtag marker was right that's fine [TS]

  whatever I don't care but I am so not [TS]

  wanting to deal with the hassle of [TS]

  making this dance happen four or five [TS]

  times to get a genius that actually [TS]

  understands that something's broken [TS]

  it's just not worth it to me it's not [TS]

  worth it if it's worth it to you be that [TS]

  mark will be that John a random listener [TS]

  that is furious with me and thinks I'm [TS]

  an idiot [TS]

  fine it's worth it to you at this very [TS]

  moment tonight it's not worth it to me [TS]

  yet and I am oh so overjoyed to read all [TS]

  the emails about how much for more on am [TS]

  so just please send them to Marco that's [TS]

  gonna take what's about today we're [TS]

  going to be your threshold like at what [TS]

  point will be out [TS]

  hypothetically if X happen that would be [TS]

  like that said this thing is going i [TS]

  think if i see a similar crash with [TS]

  nothing in the console literally there [TS]

  was nothing in the console everything [TS]

  was going as a happiest kid as a clam [TS]

  and then next thing you know boot time [TS]

  if that happens again and it happens on [TS]

  the stock room which is what's in it [TS]

  that will probably in and of itself be [TS]

  enough for me to say okay fine I'll i [TS]

  probably have to take this in and [TS]

  certainly if these crashes random [TS]

  crashes for whatever reason even the GPU [TS]

  thing that I saw today if that happens [TS]

  consistently some real consistently [TS]

  enough between today the 13th of july [TS]

  2016 and around Christmastime which is [TS]

  around the time that the warranty [TS]

  expires i will bring it in [TS]

  I just think it's really aggressive in [TS]

  premature to go through that [TS]

  you're freaking hassle today that's all [TS]

  I'm saying [TS]

  does that answer your question yeah well [TS]

  we'll be more follow-up I'm sure haha [TS]

  I'm so we just want your computer to be [TS]

  happy you want you to be happy and we [TS]

  don't want to lose any more often hear [TS]

  that covered with this we've taken [TS]

  alternate arrangements [TS]

  god I'm so looking forward to the [TS]

  follow-up responsive tonight by hover go [TS]

  to hover com and use code it's not the [TS]

  ram for ten percent off your first [TS]

  purchase some of the worst stand-up I [TS]

  quit when you have a great idea for your [TS]

  blog or a new store starting to get a [TS]

  great domain name and finding such a [TS]

  great domain name is easy with hover [TS]

  there's no upsells and there's free who [TS]

  is privacy so when all you want to do to [TS]

  go to Maine name or email address you [TS]

  shouldn't have to opt-out of a page [TS]

  after page of add-ons that you don't [TS]

  really need or want hover offers only [TS]

  domains and email you can focus on [TS]

  finding a great domain name and get back [TS]

  to working on your great idea and they [TS]

  believe that you shouldn't have to pay [TS]

  for things that should already be [TS]

  included with your domain so like most [TS]

  people don't realize that when you [TS]

  register a domain name your content [TS]

  information including your email address [TS]

  phone number and home address is [TS]

  published online for spammers and [TS]

  hackers to find in a whois database and [TS]

  unlike most of the domain providers [TS]

  hover includes free who is privacy with [TS]

  all supported domains to keep your [TS]

  information confidential so go to hover [TS]

  com and find a great domain name for [TS]

  your idea go to hover com use promo code [TS]

  it's not the ram sorry Casey promo code [TS]

  it's not the ram at checkout to save ten [TS]

  percent off your first purchase [TS]

  thank you very much to hover for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  moving on Plan of the planet of the apps [TS]

  are almost depleted behaves so planet of [TS]

  the apps has a website now this is the [TS]

  app creation show thing that Apple had [TS]

  talked about it at some point I remember [TS]

  where it was but they talked about it at [TS]

  some point said hey we're gonna do like [TS]

  a reality show about making apps and now [TS]

  it has website at planet of the apps com [TS]

  and so they're starting to solicit [TS]

  people to join up and film and [TS]

  apparently there's going to be events [TS]

  and i'm not entirely clear what that [TS]

  means i don't know if it's like American [TS]

  Idol style casting or if it means [TS]

  they're just gonna go to these places [TS]

  but they're going to new york austin LA [TS]

  and San Francisco sometime over the next [TS]

  few months I guess so anyway um what do [TS]

  we think about this about Apple dipping [TS]

  into the TV world it's weird that [TS]

  Apple's first original content that is [TS]

  like over the funding is about like its [TS]

  own stuff it's not fiction show that [TS]

  it's about apps i think that's where for [TS]

  two reasons one when you think of [TS]

  company funding original TV content i [TS]

  guess just because historically think of [TS]

  like fiction like we're going to pay a [TS]

  bunch of people money and they're going [TS]

  to write a story and have lunch actors [TS]

  in a script and that's what all the [TS]

  other services have done to promote [TS]

  their you know their their headlining [TS]

  original content is all fiction stuff [TS]

  there's not going to have reality shows [TS]

  that's not the stuff we're in a house of [TS]

  cards being the big first one and then [TS]

  nail orange is the new black and all [TS]

  sorts of other things that's weird the [TS]

  second thing is that it is a reality [TS]

  show about things that Apple does and [TS]

  the reason it gets weird is because in [TS]

  general when there's a reality show [TS]

  about a topic whatever it is it's [TS]

  fishing or baking cupcakes or like [TS]

  whatever it may be i tend to view the [TS]

  reality show about that thing as not [TS]

  reflective of the thing i didn't have to [TS]

  be this entertainment right but I would [TS]

  imagine that someone who is really you [TS]

  know a professional woodworker seeing a [TS]

  reality show about woodworking and being [TS]

  like well that's not work [TS]

  it's actually like this is the reality [TS]

  show but which again which is fine but [TS]

  it's always a distorted view because I [TS]

  can reality i don't have to make a chair [TS]

  with one hand tied behind my back or I [TS]

  don't have to incorporate pinecones into [TS]

  the nice project like that's not what [TS]

  actually working is like and in reality [TS]

  like these people you know they're [TS]

  cutting away and they're not showing the [TS]

  amount of time and i would use a [TS]

  different tool for that and you know [TS]

  like i can just imagine anyone watching [TS]

  reality show thinking that this is not [TS]

  reflected in my profession I don't think [TS]

  it's entertaining and it's fun or [TS]

  whatever but i think if you were apple [TS]

  and you decided your first original [TS]

  content is going to be about developing [TS]

  for your platforms you would want to be [TS]

  either reflective of what it's like to [TS]

  develop here at platform or make it look [TS]

  better but as most reality shows make it [TS]

  look more difficult and more fraught and [TS]

  just just weird like I I can't imagine [TS]

  the view you get of app development from [TS]

  watching this program being something [TS]

  that apple would be like yeah we want [TS]

  people to think that's what it's like to [TS]

  develop apps for the platform i know [TS]

  they're gonna try to spin it to make it [TS]

  look it's great and these people are [TS]

  going to get rich and they're all [TS]

  wonderful and developing for our [TS]

  platformers is really fun but that's an [TS]

  infomercial no one wants to watch that [TS]

  either there has to be like reality show [TS]

  drama and silly events and stuff like [TS]

  that and I its it just doesn't seem like [TS]

  a good idea to me i don't see even if [TS]

  it's the best show ever and people [TS]

  enjoyed it super entertaining we come to [TS]

  love the contestants and it's a bonding [TS]

  experience and everything its I don't [TS]

  see how it's going to be a net positive [TS]

  for apple and that like before this show [TS]

  x number of people are into app [TS]

  development and now even more art looks [TS]

  even better i think it'll I think it'll [TS]

  make it into like a more of a circus or [TS]

  just under no just doesn't seem like a [TS]

  good idea to me [TS]

  we actually spoke about this on today's [TS]

  clockwise which I guessed it on [TS]

  clockwise number 145 and basically I [TS]

  figure who wasn't brought it up but [TS]

  somebody asked they are you gonna watch [TS]

  this and are you interested in it and [TS]

  the four of us all basically said yeah [TS]

  I'm at least gonna give it a shot i'm [TS]

  curious to see it i agree with you John [TS]

  that quote unquote reality TV is never [TS]

  that real or is very rarely that real [TS]

  i'm also curious [TS]

  to see how they make developing apps [TS]

  exciting because the actual act of [TS]

  developments borings craps or at least [TS]

  watching it is boring as crap i think [TS]

  the social network you know the movie [TS]

  the social network did a pretty good job [TS]

  of making it dramatic and exciting but [TS]

  if you think about it there's very [TS]

  little actual programming going on [TS]

  generally speaking it was more drinking [TS]

  that was adjacent to procreate me but uh [TS]

  i don't know i i'm not entirely clear [TS]

  what the motivation is I think you're [TS]

  right that it's fraught with peril and [TS]

  they could go wrong in a lot of ways but [TS]

  i am i'm very intrigued to see how they [TS]

  handle it and intrigued to see how they [TS]

  presented is it going to be a bunch of [TS]

  you know tech Bros from Silicon Valley [TS]

  that our programming and being idiots i [TS]

  would assume not but you never know [TS]

  or is it going to be like an interesting [TS]

  and in genuine struggle of someone [TS]

  trying to be an independent developer [TS]

  and trying to release the this app yeah [TS]

  what was that on indie game the movie [TS]

  then like that chronicled yeah what was [TS]

  that one guy who that who did pheasant [TS]

  failfish yeah yeah like I was riveted by [TS]

  his story but it wasn't about game [TS]

  development like to get back to your [TS]

  saying about how they're going to make [TS]

  up again uh you know application [TS]

  development interesting like when [TS]

  saddled with an activity that generally [TS]

  isn't that interesting to watch like [TS]

  sitting in front of the keyboard you [TS]

  fall entirely back on what normally [TS]

  reality shows only nine ninety percent [TS]

  which is it's all about the people the [TS]

  characters that the stories and only if [TS]

  you have an activity that is photogenic [TS]

  for example like cooking because people [TS]

  get hungry when they see yummy food or [TS]

  whatever like but even in cooking [TS]

  reality shows mostly it's about the [TS]

  people the characters interpersonal [TS]

  relationships than the story behind them [TS]

  where they come from what they hope to [TS]

  achieve is why there is asking people [TS]

  what their hopes and dreams are very [TS]

  very little about the the cooking and [TS]

  cooking is really photogenic right when [TS]

  you have something is not photogenic at [TS]

  all like sitting in front of a computer [TS]

  keyboard typing it's going to be [TS]

  entirely concentrated on the people's [TS]

  stories and maybe the app idea because [TS]

  the audience i use apps i know what apps [TS]

  are like tell me your app idea kinda [TS]

  like in the shark tank type things tell [TS]

  me your business idea i don't want to [TS]

  details of how you incorporate and how [TS]

  you do accounting in your business and [TS]

  how you run your business today I don't [TS]

  but things that I can relate to so that [TS]

  that is that's how reality shows work [TS]

  it's about people's about relationships [TS]

  to put it's about interpersonal conflict [TS]

  uh they're probably not going to show a [TS]

  lot of programming but they probably [TS]

  will show here is my app idea and then [TS]

  programming happened off camera here is [TS]

  a phase of development program happened [TS]

  off camera [TS]

  here's an idea judges look at the idea [TS]

  you know like which is kind of a shame [TS]

  because I think a lot of people a lot of [TS]

  energy of like i would like to see the [TS]

  program part of people making jokes like [TS]

  they can have activities we have to like [TS]

  a tree factory you know controller or [TS]

  something and change your model later [TS]

  and like no they're not going to have [TS]

  that we would like to see that but we [TS]

  are very small audience you know they [TS]

  can't do anything that's real [TS]

  programming type stuff that has to be [TS]

  about all about the personal drama which [TS]

  I think Apple thinks maybe is going to [TS]

  be like oh it shows these people in [TS]

  there they're you know pulling [TS]

  themselves up by their bootstraps and [TS]

  they're going to become billionaires and [TS]

  they have these great app ideas and [TS]

  apples empower the world or whatever but [TS]

  then again you have to have the the [TS]

  drama and the drama may be really [TS]

  entertaining and people will like the [TS]

  program but I don't think it's going to [TS]

  make people want to become a developer [TS]

  and apples platforms [TS]

  no Marco you've been pretty quiet what [TS]

  do you think I i'm mostly don't know [TS]

  what I think about this yet i agree with [TS]

  what both of you said that you know I [TS]

  KCI i agree that it is a little weird [TS]

  sounding i'm willing to reserve judgment [TS]

  until i see it i ate a little unclear as [TS]

  to what kind of show it is it sounds a [TS]

  little bit like it is kind of like a [TS]

  shark tank or a competition show and it [TS]

  sounds like the you get the prize is VC [TS]

  money surprise [TS]

  yeah like I mean so much of a prize i [TS]

  mean like it is one of those prizes that [TS]

  sounds like a surprise like make it big [TS]

  it's like it's like you landed a record [TS]

  contract like that you know American [TS]

  Idol or the original is like you [TS]

  congratulations you are signed to a [TS]

  major label with a terrible deal [TS]

  yeah fashion in Europe changed into that [TS]

  deal you think it's a big deal when [TS]

  you're nobody but once you realize [TS]

  you're in it it's really not a great [TS]

  thing I think you're right John that [TS]

  this is mostly going to be about [TS]

  interpersonal stories and and meet you [TS]

  know depending on how well they do it [TS]

  hopefully they're low on like artificial [TS]

  drama but it i think it's mostly going [TS]

  to be like a long version of the [TS]

  feel-good videos they show before their [TS]

  keynote especially [TS]

  wdc keynotes where it's like you're you [TS]

  know you're showing these developers all [TS]

  over the world doing all sorts of like [TS]

  cool things to empower themselves in the [TS]

  people around them and you know be [TS]

  showing all this all this like you know [TS]

  cool stuff with accessibility and [TS]

  diversity and everything if that's gonna [TS]

  be what it is that's fine i don't know [TS]

  how many people and that's an [TS]

  infomercial that's not that's not [TS]

  entertaining like that that's great [TS]

  that's great for an ad and makes us feel [TS]

  good but people are connecting a week [TS]

  after week to watch that show right and [TS]

  so if it's going to be some kind of if [TS]

  you want to try to be a mass appeal show [TS]

  like a mainstream show they're going to [TS]

  have to have almost none of the [TS]

  development side and two they're gonna [TS]

  have to just make it basically american [TS]

  idol for apps and and I or you know [TS]

  basically shark tank and I don't expect [TS]

  that to be good just you know it [TS]

  instantly my gut reaction is I probably [TS]

  won't like this and i probably won't [TS]

  know a single person on it but that's [TS]

  not to say that it won't be good for [TS]

  other people I guess I mean like a lot [TS]

  of people have asked me today whether [TS]

  i'm going to apply to be on it and i [TS]

  don't think i will because it like [TS]

  against like the the endgame here like [TS]

  what's the endgame I go through all this [TS]

  I i get represented somehow in a way [TS]

  that their producers edit it and it's [TS]

  not going to be like Tim Cook editing [TS]

  this is going to be some other you know [TS]

  reality TV producer for everything [TS]

  it's I'm so you know if you apply this [TS]

  you're gonna be handing over control of [TS]

  how you are represented to the world to [TS]

  somebody who is probably an expert in [TS]

  making TV drama and in in creating drama [TS]

  where there wasn't long before to make [TS]

  morning to watch because that's probably [TS]

  what they did before this [TS]

  yeah I don't think any one of us wants [TS]

  to see the reality show character that [TS]

  we would become if everyone else like [TS]

  you have the input is this person and [TS]

  then the reality show editors things [TS]

  like all right I got a slot you in here [TS]

  what kind of character are you so there [TS]

  is like a kid getting a character like [TS]

  the fair or right or they're going to [TS]

  take whatever aspect of you think is the [TS]

  most entertaining or makes them less [TS]

  drama and they're going to design a [TS]

  character with you as the input and if [TS]

  there's anything remotely weird about [TS]

  you and there's plenty weird about all [TS]

  three of us we probably would not want [TS]

  to see the reality show character that [TS]

  we would become because we [TS]

  we probably wouldn't be the one that [TS]

  that is the typical hero that everybody [TS]

  relates to and thinks is awesome [TS]

  okay maybe it maybe Casey would be huh [TS]

  haha never seen some of them is the [TS]

  everyman so maybe he would be turned [TS]

  into like the the underdog every man [TS]

  until he refuses to take a smack in the [TS]

  mines problems and that it's good like [TS]

  now he's gotta hang up still yes exactly [TS]

  good god so honest ? oh and John you as [TS]

  well actually it so it says here [TS]

  crap i just lost it who will be the tech [TS]

  experts and mentors and it just says [TS]

  this is in the faq we are excited to [TS]

  announce our tech experts and talents in [TS]

  the coming week stay tuned for more info [TS]

  would you be willing to be a tech expert [TS]

  like someone on the judging side of the [TS]

  table as opposed to the more [TS]

  participatory side of the table that [TS]

  makes sense [TS]

  mm I don't know if I would certainly be [TS]

  more likely to consider that but [TS]

  honestly the reality is they would never [TS]

  ask me like I I'm surely not not not [TS]

  even i'm not even close to famous enough [TS]

  for that I not even in the ballpark it's [TS]

  I wouldn't even be on the like [TS]

  WB version of this show like I'm not [TS]

  even close [TS]

  and so it's not even it's that's like [TS]

  saying like would you accept if they if [TS]

  they offered you to be the new head of [TS]

  the app store like well yeah I'd [TS]

  probably consider that but they won't [TS]

  so you know look at this is no reason to [TS]

  really give much thought to it already [TS]

  have started a better gig though because [TS]

  he even though being a judge is slightly [TS]

  better than being a participant is not [TS]

  much better because you don't you're not [TS]

  the showrunner you don't just make [TS]

  editorial decisions you are just another [TS]

  character on the show you have more free [TS]

  rein to define your own character if [TS]

  you're a judge but you will play a [TS]

  character in that role and you won't [TS]

  have control of the final edit you only [TS]

  have control over all the decisions that [TS]

  are made on the show so it is entirely [TS]

  like you would be a cog in someone [TS]

  else's machine in that situation mark [TS]

  was really bad at being a cog in someone [TS]

  else's machine so i think you're not [TS]

  taking offered it to him I wouldn't take [TS]

  it just because I wouldn't wanna be on [TS]

  TV [TS]

  I mean I don't even do public speaking [TS]

  of kryolan anything i want to be a TV [TS]

  show but I thought I can think of a lot [TS]

  of other people who I think would be [TS]

  good [TS]

  celebrity judges like people who are [TS]

  no what would fill that role well be not [TS]

  because they're the best you know tech [TS]

  expert or the best mentor but that's not [TS]

  what these things are about the reality [TS]

  shows about you have to have an [TS]

  entertaining cast of characters [TS]

  hopefully they have some skills and you [TS]

  know you like and have some steak in a [TS]

  genuine or interesting people not saying [TS]

  they're all like a bunch of phonies but [TS]

  that's what makes for good television so [TS]

  you need different types to mix together [TS]

  like I would say that you for example [TS]

  Larry Ellison would be an interesting [TS]

  judge in this just because he's so like [TS]

  cartoonish the evil like the persona [TS]

  that is the public responded that he has [TS]

  and usually there's a spot on a reality [TS]

  show for someone to be like the [TS]

  cartoonishly evil mustache twisting [TS]

  villain right so we could slot right [TS]

  into that you know we in the various [TS]

  messages coming around / and stuff I've [TS]

  seen a few developed people that we know [TS]

  consider applying as participants just [TS]

  as a lark type of thing haven't seen [TS]

  anyone interested in applying for judge [TS]

  things but i think that they have to [TS]

  call you but I have a feeling that the [TS]

  people who would be good would also say [TS]

  no so i think they're judging panel is [TS]

  not going to have the brightest lights [TS]

  every industry in it and it's gonna be [TS]

  difficult to find to make interesting [TS]

  characters at a well-known celebrities [TS]

  think the best bet is to have three or [TS]

  four people who have never heard of but [TS]

  who turned out to be really good as just [TS]

  as judges on a reality show [TS]

  well it's probably gonna be like people [TS]

  who who want or need to be in Apple's [TS]

  good graces for Apple music promotion [TS]

  and VC's like that it's going to be that [TS]

  combination you're going to have a [TS]

  couple of like probably you know b-list [TS]

  celebrities or like you know musicians [TS]

  who were popular five years ago like you [TS]

  know something like that you're gonna [TS]

  have a couple of celebrities and VC's [TS]

  and that's good that that's the story [TS]

  like the judges and you know it with [TS]

  these kinda reality shows the judges are [TS]

  often used to attract the audience you [TS]

  know it's so that's why they try to get [TS]

  celebrity judges because they know that [TS]

  people will tune in to watch those [TS]

  judges judge the apps right and then [TS]

  you're gonna have bc is because they're [TS]

  the ones who actually know more about [TS]

  the business i feel like i have to point [TS]

  out the the world that Apple is going to [TS]

  promote here is most likely not the [TS]

  world that like we and our [TS]

  friends and the apps that we talk about [TS]

  our podcast it's not the world that we [TS]

  all live in its the other it's the the [TS]

  entire rest of the app store where it's [TS]

  well-known that store but it's like it's [TS]

  it's the rest of like the big money side [TS]

  of the app store at least where it is VC [TS]

  funded it is driven by like these like [TS]

  hit driven usually IEP games or things [TS]

  like that or you know it's gonna be that [TS]

  kind of stuff in all likelihood it's not [TS]

  going to be like one person toiling away [TS]

  to really polish the crap out of one [TS]

  amazing productivity app and try to sell [TS]

  it for 10 bucks a year that's not going [TS]

  to be what the show is about in all [TS]

  likelihood it's way more like that it's [TS]

  gonna be like we're making a start going [TS]

  to help connect people to do the this [TS]

  amazing task together and we're gonna [TS]

  get 10 million users in the first year [TS]

  then figure out monetization later I [TS]

  getting that kind of app it's not going [TS]

  to be you know draft that I've got more [TS]

  faith in for example a music executives [TS]

  ability to judge musical talent to say [TS]

  can I take this person and make an album [TS]

  with them they will sell a lot of copies [TS]

  that I would say is a more refined more [TS]

  predictable aren't even though it's [TS]

  still difficult to pick the people who [TS]

  are good at that I feel like are much [TS]

  better that than VC which is just a [TS]

  bunch of people who all know nothing in [TS]

  fact almost all have exactly the wrong [TS]

  idea about everything right bc is like [TS]

  two orders of magnitude more [TS]

  unpredictable more difficult to figure [TS]

  out what is going to be a hit [TS]

  you know an idiot that's why bc throwing [TS]

  money everywhere you went you know throw [TS]

  the money at a thousand companies just [TS]

  hoping one of them will be your magical [TS]

  unicorn that makes you billions of [TS]

  dollars that means you're wrong you know [TS]

  999 times and if you like I think it [TS]

  right that it's gonna be a bunch of [TS]

  feces and there's nothing worse than [TS]

  hearing bc's be like you know like I can [TS]

  tell i'm gonna tell you you know why [TS]

  your business is gonna like they have no [TS]

  idea what's going to succeed what's [TS]

  going to fail especially just a small [TS]

  handful of BC's forget it like it's [TS]

  gonna be hard for me to take them any of [TS]

  them seriously like that every time they [TS]

  have made a judgment would be like out [TS]

  what current unicorns did you pass on [TS]

  and tell me the 909 things that you [TS]

  funded the thought were going to be the [TS]

  next big thing that we're all dumb ideas [TS]

  that fizzled out right [TS]

  it's a lot easier to go to record [TS]

  executive intake tell me all of the [TS]

  people who [TS]

  you know who turned out hits for you and [TS]

  how many people did you take under your [TS]

  wing that turned out to do nothing good [TS]

  at the ratios are just so hard and in [TS]

  venture capital for technology companies [TS]

  that it's going to be comical I think [TS]

  it's easier like a shark tank to come up [TS]

  like business ideas before concrete [TS]

  things because in the world of apps and [TS]

  you know digital stuff and software and [TS]

  all that it's just it's so unpredictable [TS]

  and pretty much every idea that turns [TS]

  out to be really big is the idea that [TS]

  most people hate when they first get us [TS]

  yeah I I am NOT looking forward to the [TS]

  unbelievable complaining and moaning [TS]

  that will happen from our community when [TS]

  we realize as both of you have said that [TS]

  this show was not made for us one other [TS]

  interesting point that's on their faq [TS]

  will i be required to give up a [TS]

  percentage of equity answer those that [TS]

  appear on the show will not be required [TS]

  to give up equity unless they choose to [TS]

  accept an offer from one of the angel [TS]

  investor angel advisors or investors [TS]

  which is just further reason to make me [TS]

  believe this is basically shark tank but [TS]

  for apps that well that's it that's good [TS]

  to know though is that because that [TS]

  means that the VC component is optional [TS]

  which is nice you know that that would [TS]

  that would make it a little more [TS]

  interesting but then what do you win i [TS]

  guess you win like prestige and [TS]

  promotion by bragging rights and now [TS]

  your name is out there and it's easier [TS]

  for you to find funding be the guy that [TS]

  one on the show or whatever we better [TS]

  just a plain old cash prize like okay [TS]

  those accepted will have a chance to [TS]

  receive this is from the about page 1 [TS]

  mentorship hands-on guidance from some [TS]

  of the world's best experts in tech and [TS]

  entertainment to funding those who make [TS]

  it to the final round will meet with [TS]

  top-tier vc's investing up to 10 million [TS]

  dollars over the course of the season 3 [TS]

  marketing promotion featured placement [TS]

  on the app store at the end of the show [TS]

  also the potential reach millions of [TS]

  viewers around the world on Apple [TS]

  platforms so that is what you're [TS]

  potentially going to receive [TS]

  participation in the show's limited to [TS]

  100 of the world's most talented [TS]

  creators if that's you please join us [TS]

  that's a link so that that's the that's [TS]

  the playing field that we're dealing [TS]

  with so we get nothing they get featured [TS]

  which happens to people free all the [TS]

  time in the grandeur of control then [TS]

  this is a guarantee of being future but [TS]

  so what being featured is not going to [TS]

  me [TS]

  you're guaranteed to make you a [TS]

  bazillionaire you got the VC which is [TS]

  that like a monkey's paw if ever there [TS]

  was one [TS]

  you know if you really if you really do [TS]

  have a good app idea you probably don't [TS]

  need the VC unless your business model [TS]

  demands a huge amount amount upfront [TS]

  costs and you're making a deal with the [TS]

  devil and most likely i can't imagine [TS]

  that the best friend species are going [TS]

  to be part of this thing and it's only [TS]

  10 million dollars anyway and it's [TS]

  that's up to 10 million total so each [TS]

  app you're you're looking at you know if [TS]

  you actually have these people invest in [TS]

  your app how many apps are you know you [TS]

  might get a few hundred thousand dollars [TS]

  which is that sounds like a lot of money [TS]

  but for VC money funding an app that's [TS]

  not that much money really yeah and and [TS]

  then like but there's no there is no [TS]

  like it guaranteed big like how you're [TS]

  going to get 10 million dollars in cash [TS]

  like guaranteed you know here you go [TS]

  that's your prize in the show like [TS]

  getting the end of you know game sure [TS]

  whatever the winner will get whatever it [TS]

  is even if it's just 1 million dollars [TS]

  in cash i think that is would be more [TS]

  attractive to more people because who is [TS]

  going to read this and say I really want [TS]

  to go on the show and I really want to [TS]

  win [TS]

  only somebody who doesn't have like like [TS]

  whatever I think the reason market [TS]

  should do is if he had a good idea for [TS]

  an app he wouldn't spend his time trying [TS]

  to convince a bunch of doofus vc's that [TS]

  it's a great idea he would just make the [TS]

  appt and he doesn't need other people to [TS]

  help make the appt unless his ideas [TS]

  again one of those ideas where it's like [TS]

  I can't even get that possible the [TS]

  ground alive millions of dollars because [TS]

  kind of one of those things work you [TS]

  need a critical mass before becoming [TS]

  like uber or something if you had the [TS]

  idea for uber like you can't really make [TS]

  that up yourself because you need [TS]

  drivers and people to manage them and [TS]

  like this this much more to it to even [TS]

  just get off the ground to get a [TS]

  critical mass of like in one city can [TS]

  someone actually use my apt to actually [TS]

  get a car that's like takes a lot of [TS]

  money just to get to that point right so [TS]

  whoever is an example idea that you [TS]

  would need bc 4 but for this for an app [TS]

  that you're gonna make a show by [TS]

  yourself just make it yourself so the [TS]

  only people i think would be attracted [TS]

  this or like I've never done this before [TS]

  and this seems like a way that i can [TS]

  become successful faster if I happened [TS]

  to win and who knows maybe it is but I [TS]

  just like this what I think it's gonna [TS]

  attract new people and not people who [TS]

  already know how to make apps because [TS]

  while they just make the appt that like [TS]

  why spend your time arguing to the shark [TS]

  tank people that you have a great [TS]

  idea just do it if it's a great idea [TS]

  it'll be great idea because integrated [TS]

  it won't be great idea their their [TS]

  mentorship and their advices probably [TS]

  not going to mean that much because [TS]

  every successful apps had tons of people [TS]

  tell them it's terrible idea and every [TS]

  app that is a does had tons of people [TS]

  tell them it's awesome so crapshoot [TS]

  yeah i would also you know point out it [TS]

  for anybody who has never dealt with the [TS]

  role of VC before that when you get vc [TS]

  investment money [TS]

  this is not a gift this is not a prize [TS]

  this is a massive obligation you you [TS]

  basically higher yourselves a whole [TS]

  bunch of bosses who really want a [TS]

  certain a certain way of doing things [TS]

  because you're you're taking a lot of [TS]

  their money it again not a gift you are [TS]

  taking a lot of their money and [TS]

  investing it in in your company and you [TS]

  are responsible from that point forward [TS]

  for providing them a large return at [TS]

  some point in the future and they're a [TS]

  little bit impatient about when that is [TS]

  understandably because you're taking a [TS]

  lot of their money so if you take VC [TS]

  money you get you basically get put on a [TS]

  track [TS]

  we're ok now the next step is first of [TS]

  all you have to spend a slice of this [TS]

  money setting up the company exactly [TS]

  where they want you to legal fees you [TS]

  know corporate all the stuff then you [TS]

  have to hire staff on their time scale [TS]

  they are going to tell you we we know we [TS]

  want you to do this we wanted to hit [TS]

  these growth targets and you better have [TS]

  a plan and how you do that you better [TS]

  show up late before we even consider it [TS]

  it's a very high pressure track that you [TS]

  put on that they aren't interested in [TS]

  investing in something that is going to [TS]

  you know bring you a hundred thousand [TS]

  dollars a year for the next ten years as [TS]

  a personal income they don't care about [TS]

  that at all [TS]

  you don't they don't want to give you [TS]

  money out of their pocket to get that [TS]

  kind of return [TS]

  they're investing in you and they want [TS]

  you to grow as big as quickly as [TS]

  possible because there's a chance as i [TS]

  mentioned a small chance but there is a [TS]

  chance that if you do that you will get [TS]

  them millions of dollars in return [TS]

  that's how the business works that's how [TS]

  it operates that that is what funds it [TS]

  is those big hits that come along so [TS]

  they aren't interested in your lifestyle [TS]

  business them lifestyle business is a is [TS]

  a derogatory term even though that [TS]

  describes everything I've ever done [TS]

  besides tumblr but they don't want that [TS]

  because that's not what [TS]

  their money you know that's not your too [TS]

  risky taking their money to just try to [TS]

  do that they need big things out of you [TS]

  and so the pressure will be on you from [TS]

  that moment forward to make your thing [TS]

  big and huge and grow very quickly and [TS]

  take over the world and Edward please [TS]

  try to their goal is to make you burn [TS]

  through that money really quickly [TS]

  because they want you to be spending it [TS]

  on growth on hiring people on scaling on [TS]

  acquiring new users or whatever the case [TS]

  maybe they want you to be burning about [TS]

  money quickly and unsustainably because [TS]

  they know if you hit that growth you can [TS]

  always get more VC money you can raise [TS]

  additional rounds if you're going if [TS]

  you're not growing you'll crash and burn [TS]

  they don't care they move on there are [TS]

  advantages to the system there's lots of [TS]

  things that require this kind of funding [TS]

  to really get off the ground but this is [TS]

  what they're rewarding you with with the [TS]

  triple that that is the path that [TS]

  they're trying to put you on here and it [TS]

  might work for you and it might not but [TS]

  if you're the kind of person like me who [TS]

  prefers to do things like independently [TS]

  as quote lifestyle businesses and just [TS]

  have things that are sustainable over [TS]

  long periods [TS]

  this is not for you I think the one [TS]

  upside potentially is that the only [TS]

  reason VCR on this program is not that [TS]

  they have any expectation that the [TS]

  winner is going to return investment [TS]

  like in fact I I think they'll be less [TS]

  pressure on the winner because I think [TS]

  the main reason feces are on the show is [TS]

  to increase their stature in the vc [TS]

  community like oh you were the judge on [TS]

  that show and like during the course of [TS]

  the judging they're going to try to [TS]

  demonstrate how wise they are and how [TS]

  how knowledgeable they are about the [TS]

  market and how they can judge good ideas [TS]

  from bad in an effort to get more people [TS]

  to come to them and you know like [TS]

  they're there they're basically doing is [TS]

  a giant advertisement advertisement for [TS]

  themselves to become more prominent be [TS]

  more powerful vc's right and the fact [TS]

  that they're going to give some winner [TS]

  of some amount of money i think there's [TS]

  less pressure on them because they feel [TS]

  like even when this thing does not give [TS]

  me any return on investment me starring [TS]

  on this show will be that's the best the [TS]

  real return on investment i'm getting [TS]

  that I get to do this one thing for a [TS]

  short period of time and it will raise [TS]

  my profile in the vc community provided [TS]

  I you know i play my cards right and end [TS]

  up not being the doofus judge that [TS]

  everybody hates or what ever heard [TS]

  looks like they don't know what they're [TS]

  doing right so that little bit of return [TS]

  takes a little bit of pressure off the [TS]

  person who wins to say oh you know [TS]

  whatever do whatever you're going to do [TS]

  with your business but I feel like I [TS]

  already got my money's worth by hit by [TS]

  getting my name out there on this TV [TS]

  show one thing i'm also really curious [TS]

  to see just creatively about this show [TS]

  is a lot of the challenges of app [TS]

  development and a lot of what makes it a [TS]

  really tough grind is things about Apple [TS]

  that are bad and like how how are they [TS]

  going to frame this exactly like how how [TS]

  are they going to you know are they are [TS]

  they even going to try to accurately [TS]

  portray what it is like being a [TS]

  developer the good and the bad and the [TS]

  bad that is it that is a result of Apple [TS]

  shortcomings or or Apple's policies or [TS]

  Apple's attitude [TS]

  they're going to paper over that like [TS]

  how did a paper over that no way that is [TS]

  at all genuine and then what's what how [TS]

  valuable is the resulting show really [TS]

  like I don't think they're gonna show [TS]

  them submitting their apps the apps are [TS]

  because they're gonna say whoever wins [TS]

  whoever wins this thing Apple will make [TS]

  sure that their app gets through the app [TS]

  store they will work privately [TS]

  individually with the winner to do [TS]

  whatever it takes to fix and boxing bugs [TS]

  and i will all happen off-camera and [TS]

  it's just like don't worry when you're [TS]

  done your Apple be up on the app store [TS]

  they're never going to show the process [TS]

  of submitting and getting your a [TS]

  projected and then getting like these [TS]

  form letters back and trying to explain [TS]

  no you don't understand I'm not opening [TS]

  that file is something in your framework [TS]

  is game over [TS]

  sorry your front like they're never [TS]

  going to show that right good at is too [TS]

  esoteric and be that entire part of the [TS]

  process is going to be just like hand [TS]

  waved away was like it'll just be like a [TS]

  sense of the other thing and your app [TS]

  will be in the app star eventually cause [TS]

  you know you don't definitely map store [TS]

  until you're essentially the winner [TS]

  right so it's not as if they need to be [TS]

  constantly submitting it says here the [TS]

  faq how far along in the development [TS]

  process my app have to be the app must [TS]

  be in a beta or functional state-backed [TS]

  over 21 so that does not by necessity [TS]

  means need mean it needs to be in the [TS]

  app store so I was wrong about that well [TS]

  anyway that part of the process will be [TS]

  like it will be if you don't know what [TS]

  submitting the app store is like it will [TS]

  seem like it's just as simple as sending [TS]

  something in the mail to somebody oh you [TS]

  just submitted to the app store like I [TS]

  can't imagine they would focus on [TS]

  rejection right and I mean unless they [TS]

  want to make that the dramatic [TS]

  the program to show your apples rejected [TS]

  because it crashed just like it's your [TS]

  fault like none of it is if they do that [TS]

  at all [TS]

  it's not going to be shown to be apple's [TS]

  fault any of the rejections will not be [TS]

  a misunderstanding apples are just be [TS]

  like oh you're I've got rejected from [TS]

  store because it crashes every viewer [TS]

  can understand that Oh youyou did that [TS]

  was your mistake [TS]

  apple is perfect and nice and they would [TS]

  never reject her out for any reason [TS]

  except for because it doesn't work right [TS]

  it's malicious or crashes yeah i mean [TS]

  this is this is the kind of thing where [TS]

  just creatively it seems like it would [TS]

  probably have way better chances of [TS]

  being a good show [TS]

  if Apple wasn't involved in it but [TS]

  unfortunately this is an apple produce [TS]

  show you look at some companies and [TS]

  they're able to like be producers of [TS]

  things but still have jokes made it [TS]

  their expense or have themselves made [TS]

  look bad apple is not one of these [TS]

  companies Apple does not have any flex [TS]

  on like the sense of humor about itself [TS]

  and its own flaws like they would never [TS]

  in a million years produce something [TS]

  like this that would show any part of [TS]

  them in a bad light [TS]

  so is this really going to be watchable [TS]

  or is it going to just seemed like an [TS]

  overly long WC promotion video we'll see [TS]

  so that actually is a nice segue to what [TS]

  I was going to bring up I noticed at the [TS]

  bottom of at least a couple of the pages [TS]

  on planet of the apps com it says [TS]

  something about prospect productions and [TS]

  so I did a smidge of digging and i [TS]

  believe i've come up with the right [TS]

  prospect productions and this is [TS]

  prospect production calm and if you go [TS]

  to prospect production calm / works you [TS]

  can see some of the stuff they've done [TS]

  in the past in much to my surprise a [TS]

  large majority of what they've worked on [TS]

  is sports-related so just looking at the [TS]

  the sections they have there's a music [TS]

  video by James pit Taylor but it's the [TS]

  angels at Fenway which is a baseball [TS]

  stadium [TS]

  there's some there's not a translation [TS]

  which I figured you'd be confused [TS]

  there's an on the trail section that [TS]

  that a that is not sports-related but [TS]

  then there's legendary which is about [TS]

  sports 3430 shorts which is sports [TS]

  victory journal such power 8 sports [TS]

  major league soccer major league soccer [TS]

  insider something unrelated ESPN Sunday [TS]

  Night Baseball and so there's [TS]

  all sorts of sports related stuff and [TS]

  then some stuff with the huffington post [TS]

  as well so it is not excluded or their [TS]

  histories not exclusively sports but [TS]

  seems overwhelmingly to be sport-related [TS]

  which i think is a good thing because [TS]

  that'll probably i'm hoping that all [TS]

  they'll understand how to make something [TS]

  that sometimes is inherently boring like [TS]

  baseball into something exciting so [TS]

  maybe they can make something else [TS]

  that's inherently boring like [TS]

  development into something exciting [TS]

  which would be neat sports the way [TS]

  easier to make exciting because it's a [TS]

  competition and there's winners and [TS]

  losers and points scored and what there [TS]

  is here [TS]

  sort of yeah but that is artificially a [TS]

  competition it [TS]

  no it's not a zero-sum game where [TS]

  there's a winner and loser in the app [TS]

  store like a baseball game is where [TS]

  there's two teams face off and one is [TS]

  going to win was going to lose or it's [TS]

  gonna get rained out a bit like sports [TS]

  are so much easier to make dramatic like [TS]

  we've all the all those sort of like [TS]

  long segments that were on the olympics [TS]

  where they tell you the back story in [TS]

  what hometown the person came from and [TS]

  how long she trained and she woke up at [TS]

  5am for years [TS]

  5am for years [TS]

  and she overcame this and whatever [TS]

  parents died and then she's like that's [TS]

  so easy to do in terms of personal drama [TS]

  and because like all of the Anakin will [TS]

  they get the gold medal will they win [TS]

  will vanquish their rivals every one of [TS]

  these sports has a clear like first [TS]

  second third fourth place you know gold [TS]

  silver bronze app development is not [TS]

  like that like yeah you know it's the [TS]

  job set for apples to see Marcus doesn't [TS]

  have to lose and for you to win only in [TS]

  this artificial reality show do your [TS]

  other app developers have to lose in [TS]

  reality for you to win you don't have to [TS]

  sabotage your other app developers by [TS]

  adding stray semicolon source code [TS]

  whatever responses might buy betterment [TS]

  betterment is the largest independent [TS]

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  quick spot of real-time follow-up [TS]

  listener Rob Travis is written in via [TS]

  Twitter and i'm quoting I had the same [TS]

  random reboot problem with a new 5k imac [TS]

  and 32 gigs of odbc ram owc swap the ram [TS]

  and it has not happened since boom that [TS]

  may or may not have anything to do with [TS]

  my issue but i'm claiming it is as fact [TS]

  that that's the problem anyway let's [TS]

  move on before yell at me [TS]

  let's talk about poke it poke game on go [TS]

  it's not pokemons right is pokemon i [TS]

  think something like that i have no idea [TS]

  what you're trying to make us forget [TS]

  about the GPU freezes at what's [TS]

  happening now [TS]

  yeah pretty much moving on so we could [TS]

  be multiple issues [TS]

  dammit youtube I soap oh c'mon Go is a [TS]

  new kind of augmented reality kind of [TS]

  not game that came out I guess the last [TS]

  week and I i'm not really sure what to [TS]

  make of it have either of you guys [TS]

  installed and or plated good talk so [TS]

  this for me because they all thought [TS]

  three of us that i would imagine and [TS]

  none of us have installed or played this [TS]

  game so the only thing we can talk about [TS]

  is the phenomenon that we observe from [TS]

  the outside of other people installing [TS]

  and playing this you know I've played it [TS]

  oh you have you haven't known that [TS]

  surprises me have you did you play any [TS]

  other pokemon games i did not in fact [TS]

  also plugging my appearance on clockwise [TS]

  145 because we talk about this today as [TS]

  well when I was in high school in early [TS]

  on in college I worked at Babbage's [TS]

  which was kind of like Electronics [TS]

  Boutique it was basically a video game [TS]

  software store and this was around the [TS]

  time that pokemon cards were popular and [TS]

  this was a collectible card game much [TS]

  like match the Gathering which is [TS]

  popular [TS]

  well more popular for a couple years [TS]

  prior and so every day when i when i was [TS]

  working at least every weekday when i [TS]

  was working in the evenings are [TS]

  afternoon rather the phones would light [TS]

  up as soon as the elementary and middle [TS]

  schools got were let out and it would go [TS]

  approx like this bring hi thanks for [TS]

  going Babbage's is Casey how can I help [TS]

  you do you have any pokemon cards [TS]

  nope sorry were sold out try again in a [TS]

  week bring do you have any pokemon cards [TS]

  no I'm sorry was that was like [TS]

  three hours of work was just answering [TS]

  the nonstop phone for people looking for [TS]

  pokemon cards I don't like it when [TS]

  people say that they had PTSD about [TS]

  things that are not stressful and so i [TS]

  won't say that but let's just say I am [TS]

  predisposed to not like pokemon that [TS]

  being said I've installed the game and I [TS]

  can see why would be fun [TS]

  you ever play that did you ever play the [TS]

  card game when you were working there I [TS]

  did not and I've never played the video [TS]

  game either [TS]

  so this is your very first pokemon game [TS]

  and i'm assuming the only reason you [TS]

  downloaded is because it's so popular [TS]

  and you're seeing everything about other [TS]

  people yes and then because you have a [TS]

  phone and I can run that game [TS]

  precisely and I i was vaguely familiar [TS]

  with the kind of the premise of the game [TS]

  very very vaguely I know you have to [TS]

  collect these little monster things and [TS]

  like you fight the monster things i [TS]

  think it doesn't matter if I'm wrong you [TS]

  don't have to write incorrect me I'm [TS]

  just telling you what I thought at the [TS]

  time and so I've installed the game and [TS]

  it doesn't tell me a whole lot more [TS]

  about what purpose if everything is but [TS]

  I like the cat gamey meat if you to [TS]

  explain to you what [TS]

  oh god hi Dante random and unexpected [TS]

  John said my name is that i have heerd [TS]

  perfect i summoned re if you say her [TS]

  name was she appears no no you say it [TS]

  into the mirror at night I thought I [TS]

  thought it was three but you but it [TS]

  would be wrong of me to compare you to [TS]

  be able to use apologies for being so [TS]

  confused that was like really great [TS]

  timing I was not prepared for that and [TS]

  we were not warned [TS]

  well i figured i replace myself with [TS]

  tiff because i have installed the game [TS]

  but she has so I quit here sniff hey [TS]

  okay so but to set you up to since I [TS]

  presume you haven't heard much of what [TS]

  we were just talking about basically I [TS]

  just heard you talking that you you [TS]

  worked in a store and there were cards [TS]

  and yeah okay okay so tell me what is [TS]

  the purpose of pokemon go because I [TS]

  played enough that i think i understand [TS]

  it but I probably do not understand it [TS]

  as well as you do [TS]

  from what I understand is that you went [TS]

  around the fuck you gather pokemon and [TS]

  they have different points and then [TS]

  there are gyms at public places that you [TS]

  can go to and you form teams with people [TS]

  and once you are certain level you're [TS]

  able to train at the gym and you can [TS]

  train your pokemon to get more hit [TS]

  points and then you can fight other [TS]

  pokemon and it [TS]

  your kind of goal is to take control of [TS]

  the gym from other teams so you can like [TS]

  at different types of times of day one [TS]

  team can show up take control the gym [TS]

  with like a really high level pokemon if [TS]

  then they leave it because you can't [TS]

  stick around you have to be at the [TS]

  location in order to play at the gym and [TS]

  then so they leave and another team can [TS]

  come in and take control the gym also so [TS]

  it's kind of like a locational strategy [TS]

  kind of thing I don't know my experience [TS]

  from pokemon before was the card game my [TS]

  brother played it when he was young [TS]

  because i was just a little bit too old [TS]

  for it i just missed it and then I [TS]

  remember he used to watch the TV show so [TS]

  I do remember that so I think it's kind [TS]

  of like the TV show that's right i [TS]

  forgot there was a TV show ya what they [TS]

  are tuned right so right i forgot about [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah i mean i was playing it Marco got [TS]

  pretty pissed with me on the walk the [TS]

  other day because I kept stopping to [TS]

  catch pokemon and he's like this is the [TS]

  worst walk he was getting so mad mikey [TS]

  to chill was like nothing nothing is [TS]

  worse than if you are trying to walk [TS]

  somewhere with somebody else who is [TS]

  playing pokemon girls what I mean come [TS]

  on it's not like every walking running [TS]

  around playing pokemon but i was driving [TS]

  today seeing this kid like kind of [TS]

  wandering on the side of the road [TS]

  it says right in the beginning of the [TS]

  game like please be aware of your [TS]

  surroundings because like people walk [TS]

  into poles and stuff apparently while [TS]

  playing this and some driving and I'm [TS]

  like watching this kid kinda like swervy [TS]

  walking next to the road my god this kid [TS]

  totally playing pokemon go and I Drive [TS]

  fast really slow he's reading a book [TS]

  like a real book I thought that was even [TS]

  more strange than poking around read a [TS]

  real book but anyway goodness sake my [TS]

  night has so have you any so have you [TS]

  displayed yet [TS]

  yes so I have an apparently gianmarco if [TS]

  not and it's funny you talk about Marco [TS]

  getting frustrated during the walk [TS]

  because in the evenings for the last few [TS]

  weeks I've been taking Declan on a walk [TS]

  and giving Aaron a little time to [TS]

  herself because she's been with him all [TS]

  day and today i had my phone out just [TS]

  kind of periodically glancing to see if [TS]

  there are any Pokemon nearby and at one [TS]

  point there was and so I stopped long [TS]

  enough to catch it and I hear this [TS]

  little voice from the stroller in front [TS]

  of me [TS]

  push push [TS]

  and you're telling me and telling me [TS]

  basically would you get the show on the [TS]

  road i'm tired of standing still see so [TS]

  even Declan was frustrated so what level [TS]

  are you shoot i don't know i meanwhile [TS]

  let me keep running my mouth look but [TS]

  honestly I just got to level 5 so that [TS]

  means I get to go to the gym so I'm [TS]

  pretty psyched [TS]

  oh you are ahead of me so what's [TS]

  fascinating in all kidding aside like [TS]

  whether or not you find the game to be [TS]

  interesting or worthwhile this [TS]

  collective you what's fascinating to me [TS]

  about this game is that it's got several [TS]

  different very interesting components [TS]

  all-in-one I am level 3 by the way it's [TS]

  got several different components that [TS]

  are new all rolled and such and you [TS]

  could never hold into one so there's the [TS]

  location awareness sort of thing and [TS]

  this is what if was talking about [TS]

  earlier there are gyms and there was a [TS]

  pokey pokey stops yeah that's where you [TS]

  can pick up pokeballs or you can get [TS]

  eggs there and eggs you have to do you [TS]

  know about the x-jet like the egg I've [TS]

  been told about them [TS]

  what language is this again this is [TS]

  nowhere near destiny so don't even start [TS]

  your whining but what I find great about [TS]

  it is that you have to actually walk to [TS]

  physical locations to do these things [TS]

  and you have to be at the location for a [TS]

  certain amount of time so just driving [TS]

  around you can't hit up all of these [TS]

  things because by the time you're [TS]

  driving past in kind of the flow of [TS]

  traffic [TS]

  you can't have to spin the Polka stops [TS]

  in order to collect the pokeballs to [TS]

  catch your Pokemon way just to clarify [TS]

  when you were out driving today were you [TS]

  trying to play pokemon to test all this [TS]

  up [TS]

  not while I was driving I mean but while [TS]

  other people were driving like when I [TS]

  went to target any of the other day I [TS]

  was like I'm totally gonna try and play [TS]

  pokemon while we're driving and pretend [TS]

  I was listening to what we were talking [TS]

  about haha right now I tried it and it [TS]

  didn't work inside my phone away like a [TS]

  gentleman [TS]

  wow so he said to build on what it was [TS]

  saying so there's these paki stops where [TS]

  you can like tip said you can collect [TS]

  items and whatnot and then there's the [TS]

  gyms where you can get into right is a [TS]

  coil rumbles with other people and then [TS]

  as you're walking around you can just [TS]

  stumble upon the pokemon these pocket [TS]

  monsters or whatever they are but what's [TS]

  fascinating to me about this is that [TS]

  there's this real world component to it [TS]

  that you can well okay yes I'm sure [TS]

  there's a way to cheat but if you play [TS]

  the game the way it's intended to be [TS]

  played [TS]

  can't just sit there in your house and [TS]

  collect a bunch of pokemon and and part [TS]

  of the fun of the game besides this [TS]

  whole gym and team vs team competition [TS]

  if i understand it right part of the [TS]

  part of the fun of the game is [TS]

  collecting all these different Pokemon [TS]

  gotta catch em all gotta catch em all [TS]

  that's right so you so you have to get [TS]

  off your butt and walk around in order [TS]

  to catch them all and apparently the [TS]

  ones that are water oriented I guess [TS]

  there's some like fish asked once or [TS]

  something like that something you can [TS]

  tell are designed to their their [TS]

  animated in such a way that they look [TS]

  like they belong around water [TS]

  well apparently you have to go to a [TS]

  small body of water generally speaking [TS]

  to find these pokemon not to say have to [TS]

  go to the ocean just have to go to like [TS]

  a little pond or a lake or river what [TS]

  have you tiff might have diverted our [TS]

  walk to go past a pool to see if that [TS]

  counted [TS]

  yeah I might have done that exactly also [TS]

  tell you please don't look for pokemon [TS]

  in volcanoes because there are fire [TS]

  pokemon please do not try and go into [TS]

  volcanoes to find pokemon so the thing [TS]

  about the thing that i find fascinating [TS]

  whether or not you think this is a [TS]

  complete like waste of time i candidly I [TS]

  never tried the cat game I never [TS]

  everything I solve it just looks stupid [TS]

  to me cackles amazing [TS]

  shut your face and hey other people have [TS]

  their people enjoy that's fine you'd [TS]

  like what you like that's fine [TS]

  whether or not you collective you think [TS]

  that pokemon is interesting or fun or [TS]

  what have you [TS]

  I still think it's fascinating that it [TS]

  has these different aspects right so it [TS]

  has the collectible aspect where you [TS]

  want to try to catch em all [TS]

  it has the real world tie-in that you [TS]

  have to go places in order to play it [TS]

  has the team vs team it's us against [TS]

  them aspect at the gyms and it's all of [TS]

  these different things all rolled [TS]

  together which is I think what makes it [TS]

  so fascinating and so interesting and [TS]

  and the tipster the in the chat is [TS]

  joking hey cases learning what a video [TS]

  game is but I used to be a pretty pretty [TS]

  frequent videogamer way long ago and i [TS]

  personally have not witnessed a game [TS]

  that got all of these different pieces [TS]

  connected together even vaguely similar [TS]

  to the way this was except apparently [TS]

  what was the name of the game it but [TS]

  there was a predecessor for this like [TS]

  infuse or no not confusing dress [TS]

  thank you ingress and another one of the [TS]

  things that I that I find so fascinating [TS]

  about this game is that you [TS]

  new in the areas in which i work for [TS]

  example it knew of some landmarks that [TS]

  are relevant to people who know the area [TS]

  really well but are completely [TS]

  unremarkable and relevant to anyone that [TS]

  isn't something that doesn't leave for [TS]

  work in the area in which i live in work [TS]

  and I i was wondering earlier on Twitter [TS]

  like how did they come up with these [TS]

  different spots for the gyms and for the [TS]

  pokey stops and whatnot and apparently [TS]

  the same company that did pretty much [TS]

  all of the work for this game whose name [TS]

  I'm also forgetting John niantic yeah I [TS]

  think that's right my antique thank you [TS]

  apparently ingress was a very very very [TS]

  similar game that they had done in the [TS]

  past and involved in that from what I'm [TS]

  told and again that actual particulars [TS]

  don't really matter the gist of it [TS]

  though is that you could as a player in [TS]

  the game submit like locations and [TS]

  whatnot and and from what I've [TS]

  understood they took all of that data [TS]

  and turned all of those points of [TS]

  interest that were that were made by [TS]

  people playing this game local players [TS]

  playing this game and turn those into [TS]

  the gyms and the pokey stops and whatnot [TS]

  and again the game on an awful stick [TS]

  with it it's certainly one of those like [TS]

  everyone's talking about it so I feel [TS]

  like I'm missing out if I don't also [TS]

  participate lightly and you should hear [TS]

  the conversations at work about it but I [TS]

  just find this combination of all these [TS]

  different pieces cut early fascinating [TS]

  so I've been talking a long time [TS]

  Marco if John questions or thoughts i [TS]

  don't know i will bring up something [TS]

  Marco brought up in the car today when [TS]

  we were talking was about how perfect of [TS]

  a time for this game to be released [TS]

  right it's summer kids are off [TS]

  it's beautiful weather like you can be [TS]

  outside it's just it's fantastic you if [TS]

  we see a whole bunch of people gathered [TS]

  at different locations all over town [TS]

  playing this game it the the release [TS]

  timing for this couldn't have been [TS]

  better [TS]

  yeah i agree and like nothing else is [TS]

  going on there's no other major releases [TS]

  there's no major news happening no one [TS]

  else really have anything to do a lot of [TS]

  people taking vacation anyway [TS]

  it really is an amazing time release [TS]

  here and like I just want to say like in [TS]

  general my thoughts on this [TS]

  having only seen screenshots over for a [TS]

  second here and there [TS]

  I'd like to have tried to show me how [TS]

  she like threw pokeballs a pokémon's [TS]

  try to poke it into her phone so I don't [TS]

  know how the sport doesn't really matter [TS]

  sorry however it works this game like [TS]

  just seeing what it's doing the people [TS]

  in the world just makes me happy it's [TS]

  just a very delightful feeling because [TS]

  seeing that is getting the people [TS]

  outside walking around gathering [TS]

  together oftentimes with strangers and [TS]

  just like sitting and having a peaceful [TS]

  fun time that in real life in person [TS]

  that is very rare that kind of like to [TS]

  have a kind of effect and the fact that [TS]

  just took off so quickly over the [TS]

  weekend like it just boom all this on [TS]

  everyone's doing this [TS]

  that's just really delightful and it's [TS]

  it is like a nice happy like human [TS]

  interest story and I i really liked [TS]

  seeing that I mean their moms walking up [TS]

  and down the street with strollers just [TS]

  like you Casey who are playing pokemon [TS]

  go you know anything like everyone is [TS]

  playing and people start talking to each [TS]

  other about it and you notice someone [TS]

  else playing it and you talk to them and [TS]

  you're like just kind of Pokemon over [TS]

  here did you see that one not a lot you [TS]

  know I don't really care what I'm [TS]

  catching or catching them all i don't i [TS]

  don't really but I don't know I just [TS]

  kind of want to play because everyone [TS]

  else is doing it so have you guys put [TS]

  any money into the game [TS]

  not yet I haven't no no you get a lot of [TS]

  stuff just by walking around and hangout [TS]

  spots and spending the little doodad and [TS]

  plus like you have to incubate the eggs [TS]

  there's a lot to do before you have to [TS]

  put money into it and he had to walk in [TS]

  order to incubate the egg so it gives [TS]

  you a distance it that you have to move [TS]

  so it kind of keeps you busy [TS]

  I'm keep wondering like I realize about [TS]

  the money as I wonder what the total [TS]

  like that the net new trainers will be [TS]

  to use a business east at the guess a [TS]

  lot of people are into this game now but [TS]

  if you were already into pokemon you [TS]

  don't count because you're going to buy [TS]

  a new pokemon games where they come out [TS]

  anyway so those people already party it [TS]

  you know and this is just invested in [TS]

  the franchise right if you're not [TS]

  invested in it [TS]

  tons of people who have never played [TS]

  when we have people who've never been in [TS]

  2.4 cries out because its a thing people [TS]

  doing it's a fun thing to do but i'm [TS]

  wondering if those people are going to [TS]

  be the type of people who put mine to [TS]

  the game like I don't know how the game [TS]

  is structured as a structured in a way [TS]

  that you can if you're just like I've [TS]

  never played pokemon game and [TS]

  like to seriously into it but it's kind [TS]

  of a fun thing to do and i'll just keep [TS]

  doing it [TS]

  can you just keep doing it at that pace [TS]

  without ever giving any money and you'll [TS]

  just be perfectly happy with the [TS]

  experience because that doesn't really [TS]

  benefit the game maker or Nintendo or [TS]

  anyone else particularly it seems like [TS]

  you can though like just go out on if [TS]

  you're playing it really casually i [TS]

  think what i'm seeing probably might be [TS]

  totally wrong here but the people who [TS]

  are very much in competition for the [TS]

  gyms and they are into forming their [TS]

  teams [TS]

  I'm feeling a lot of clash of clans kind [TS]

  of situation happening here is the for [TS]

  the people to get very serious about it [TS]

  if you don't put in the money then [TS]

  you're not going to find the rare [TS]

  pokemon or you're not going to be able [TS]

  to train them to a high level that's [TS]

  that's kind of what I'm seeing so if [TS]

  you're really invested in a team then [TS]

  you're going to feel that pressure to [TS]

  contribute money in order to be better [TS]

  for your team and then take control of [TS]

  these gyms but i think that the casual [TS]

  person just walking around gonna catch [TS]

  em all kind of situation might not feel [TS]

  that kind of pressure [TS]

  yeah like all these games I mean there's [TS]

  a balance you can strike with how how [TS]

  much you want people to be able to play [TS]

  before they put money in how like how [TS]

  much of a timer do you want to put on [TS]

  whatever energy mechanic to frustrate [TS]

  people you can tune a game so that even [TS]

  the most casual players so frustrated [TS]

  that you have to give up or give money [TS]

  or you can turn a game that almost no [TS]

  one feels like we need to get money but [TS]

  in the grand scheme of things [TS]

  historically these type of free-to-play [TS]

  massively multiplayer games I clash of [TS]

  clans or whatever make all their money [TS]

  from what everyone calls whales like [TS]

  that most of the money comes from a [TS]

  small group of people put a tremendous [TS]

  amount of money into them sometimes in [TS]

  like an unethical amount of money and [TS]

  that you feel bad that you're taking [TS]

  this much money from these people right [TS]

  and most people put in a piddling amount [TS]

  of money and that piddling amount could [TS]

  still be more than the dog 99 that [TS]

  people have paid for it up front like [TS]

  the pilling amount might be five dollars [TS]

  a year but five dollars these and the [TS]

  app store is a pretty good price when [TS]

  games are going for a dollar ninety-nine [TS]

  cents or whatever so I'm not like what [TS]

  I'm trying to gauge of this phenomenon [TS]

  is long-term how you know how much money [TS]

  is going to make it how many new [TS]

  customers is gonna make how many new [TS]

  pokemon players it [TS]

  make is going to build so that when next [TS]

  year comes out with a new augmented [TS]

  reality pokemon game with a different [TS]

  name [TS]

  we'll all the same people come back like [TS]

  are there people out there who have [TS]

  never been to the Pokemon franchise this [TS]

  is gonna bring them on board and i think [TS]

  there are because I think there's a lot [TS]

  of people who have never been to the [TS]

  Pokemon franchise pc historically the [TS]

  only place you can play pokemon was on [TS]

  platforms that these people have never [TS]

  owned like young people all people like [TS]

  if you've never owned a nintendo gaming [TS]

  system at all which then is plenty [TS]

  people who haven't especially and I like [TS]

  a handheld system of the board the most [TS]

  of the pokemon games and come out you [TS]

  may have never had occasion to be [TS]

  exposed this and by releasing a [TS]

  smartphone platforms vastly larger [TS]

  audience can now be exposed to pokemon [TS]

  and now maybe you're building an [TS]

  audience for the next version before [TS]

  they worry about their audience they [TS]

  have to get their servers under control [TS]

  because man that game crashes a lot it [TS]

  freezes all the time [TS]

  yeah that's that's a lot of there's a [TS]

  nintendo is very bad it online stuff [TS]

  they were very late online stuff they [TS]

  don't quite get it they're not good at [TS]

  kinda like Apple Apple is really late [TS]

  but there's not good at it anyway and [TS]

  they've been doing a lot of outsourcing [TS]

  to other companies like this [TS]

  niantic company lots of different [TS]

  companies they partner with are invested [TS]

  in or are working with on their games [TS]

  who supposedly bring the expertise that [TS]

  Nintendo doesn't have hey you guys have [TS]

  already running game exactly like this [TS]

  called ingress we want to do that but [TS]

  replace all the the BSU had before with [TS]

  pokemon right and you got the servers [TS]

  and you know how it works and you've [TS]

  done it before and that seems like a [TS]

  good idea for a small company relatively [TS]

  small company like Nintendo is compared [TS]

  to you know Microsoft or Sony to get [TS]

  this game out the door but these [TS]

  companies that they're out something to [TS]

  have also never been exposed to the [TS]

  combination of the game they knew how to [TS]

  run plus the pokemon IP that makes [TS]

  millions of people want to play it [TS]

  they weren't ready for that either so [TS]

  it's not really a clean win and as [TS]

  you've noted the servers are often down [TS]

  as a lot of people tweeting it that the [TS]

  the app itself has a lot of difficulties [TS]

  with concurrency it's very easy to [TS]

  confuse when the server is slow you can [TS]

  induce race conditions where the app is [TS]

  just hung because it wants you to click [TS]

  on a button that you can no longer see [TS]

  or you know all sorts of simple [TS]

  programming mistakes exacerbated by slow [TS]

  server response time [TS]

  its overall not making for a [TS]

  particularly convincing our messages [TS]

  that not particularly intend to like [TS]

  experience for users for all you say [TS]

  about entendo in general their console [TS]

  games are not horribly buggy and broken [TS]

  their online stuff is always horribly [TS]

  buggy and broken in this case the online [TS]

  stuff is slow and bad and also the app [TS]

  that talk to the online stuff is not [TS]

  particularly robust and yet it makes 1.6 [TS]

  million dollars a day so it kind of [TS]

  calls into question whether any of that [TS]

  really matters [TS]

  well I mean it matters in that like it's [TS]

  it's not a particularly good showing for [TS]

  the company you know like it [TS]

  people it this is a good idea and people [TS]

  are going to copy it right and there are [TS]

  other eye peas that can do similar [TS]

  things right in clash of clans we also [TS]

  makes a lot of money and came before [TS]

  this and it but that was an AR type [TS]

  thing anyway who have much money they're [TS]

  making they could potentially making [TS]

  more if they weren't crashing and not [TS]

  letting people on you know like it or [TS]

  not i did alright having that bad [TS]

  reputation or having people leave the [TS]

  game because they're frustrated by [TS]

  crashing or whatever like you can always [TS]

  be making more money so it is a downside [TS]

  just set asides problems and your big [TS]

  success of like oh look a little with [TS]

  money we're making that there are still [TS]

  problems to be had there especially if [TS]

  this is the future of gaming antenna [TS]

  better get a lot better added proud [TS]

  pretty quickly the same the same way [TS]

  that Sony had to try to catch up with [TS]

  xbox live when they realized that the [TS]

  way people deal with consoles now is not [TS]

  just to plug it into your TV centre [TS]

  caption the world outside your house [TS]

  doesn't exist that wasn't the case and [TS]

  Sony was later to that the microsoft was [TS]

  a nintendo was later than all three of [TS]

  them so anyway I I think nintendo has a [TS]

  lot of work to do these partnering deals [TS]

  are fast way for them to get a game at [TS]

  that they couldn't develop on their own [TS]

  because they don't have the expertise [TS]

  but it also means that these other [TS]

  companies get a lot of the money at some [TS]

  people between the various breakdowns [TS]

  like well three percent goes the apple [TS]

  and experts goes to the developer and [TS]

  then the left over ten percent goes to [TS]

  nintendo I don't know if that was legit [TS]

  figured someone trying to do with like [TS]

  you know estimations but like that the [TS]

  upshot of the other tweet was that [TS]

  Apple's making more money from this game [TS]

  and tender with which is also not a [TS]

  great situation for nintendo so i'm [TS]

  happy to report I've just caught a TV [TS]

  and a Pidgey as I was sitting here they [TS]

  were on [TS]

  how did how to help you have all these [TS]

  better not have eaten every one of these [TS]

  pokemon at their house we have like a [TS]

  dead zone there is nothing around here [TS]

  generally speaking i have not seen one [TS]

  of the house but apparently they were [TS]

  sitting on my desk who knew but maybe [TS]

  they're the ones breaking your imac if [TS]

  you need I just feel like i'd also like [TS]

  to publicly complain that after all the [TS]

  time I spent on ramp champ [TS]

  I should be way better at catching these [TS]

  stupid pokemon with my stupid pokeballs [TS]

  then I really am [TS]

  is it possible that maybe p because we [TS]

  have a dog and you don't maybe there's a [TS]

  reason why we don't have any Pokemon [TS]

  left around the house dear and weird [TS]

  animals all over the place [TS]

  come on we should have some pokemon I'm [TS]

  just I'm just saying maybe we did have [TS]

  put them on and then hops found them and [TS]

  now we don't have pokemon it's all the [TS]

  people that live in the city is all they [TS]

  have to do is sit on the couch and [TS]

  there's like polka stops and everything [TS]

  you can like reach virtually anywhere [TS]

  and it's so frustrating I we have to [TS]

  like go places [TS]

  everything was younger I don't know what [TS]

  the heck's going on [TS]

  oh man that's awesome so I don't know I [TS]

  I I just think it's really cool that [TS]

  bits and pieces they put together in the [TS]

  timing it to your guys's point earlier [TS]

  the timing of all this and I've heard [TS]

  plenty of stories of people from all [TS]

  different walks of life coming together [TS]

  and bonding over this really kind of [TS]

  silly game and like I said you know [TS]

  certainly at work it's it's made quite [TS]

  the splash and and I know that people [TS]

  were going to launch and in the driver [TS]

  of the car with like handed her phone to [TS]

  one of the passengers so the passenger [TS]

  was like spinning the little disk thing [TS]

  on the run a pokey stops for both [TS]

  himself in the driver and then there's a [TS]

  little lake right by where I work don't [TS]

  be creepy and people are going on long [TS]

  walks around the lake to catch pokemon [TS]

  over lunch break like it's it's [TS]

  surprising how much effect this silly [TS]

  little game has had so quickly and I'm [TS]

  also a little surprised on the you [TS]

  evidently at least tried it yet but I [TS]

  know do you plan to John no i'm not a [TS]

  pokemon games though not my thing like [TS]

  soap and the the AR aspect of it is not [TS]

  enough to make me get into pokemon it's [TS]

  not like I dislike the air apart i would [TS]

  be more likely to play our game with a [TS]

  different property attached to a [TS]

  different type of game and just got into [TS]

  pokemon so now I'd all over [TS]

  LED but you have so many nice places to [TS]

  walk where you live John like it's so [TS]

  easy just kind of go on a little family [TS]

  trot you could all catch some pokemon [TS]

  together it'd be great i considered [TS]

  having my kids play it and like seeing [TS]

  if they get into it because you know i [TS]

  don't have to be playing I can't be with [TS]

  them on the Walk of the market tells me [TS]

  that's not a fun thing to know don't you [TS]

  like yeah my I didn't have my phone to [TS]

  Adam when marco was getting mad while he [TS]

  was sitting in the stroller I'm like all [TS]

  right you need to look at this and tell [TS]

  me if you see any little animals popping [TS]

  up and then you tell mommy i tried to [TS]

  put him to work but you know what you're [TS]

  gonna do is for so in the olden days [TS]

  people would put their kids to work like [TS]

  you know plowing a field or something [TS]

  and this is what we just get to work at [TS]

  some pokemon from mama mama needs that [TS]

  pokemon gold farm and free-to-play a [TS]

  massively multiplayer games that's next [TS]

  alright i think i think we're probably [TS]

  good here [TS]

  alright so thank you very much to our [TS]

  sponsors this week betterment hover and [TS]

  kingdom and thank you very much active [TS]

  for joining us thanks guys [TS]

  it's always a pleasure anyway alright [TS]

  thanks everyone and we'll talk to you [TS]

  next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental John racer Margo and [TS]

  Casey wouldn't let him because it was [TS]

  accidentally was accidental and you can [TS]

  find the show know today p dot and if [TS]

  your twitter you can follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  as anything fun in the neutral world I [TS]

  has already been pretty scandals [TS]

  volkswagen Tesla there have been on [TS]

  autopilot or whatever they call it [TS]

  issues [TS]

  yeah I don't know the details of any of [TS]

  these other crashes but it's pretty [TS]

  clear to me that this is not intended to [TS]

  be a don't pay attention to what's going [TS]

  on in front of you sort of autopilot new [TS]

  advert really great post about this a [TS]

  little while ago Marco I don't see why [TS]

  these are happening all the time unless [TS]

  these are human failings on top of [TS]

  computer failings [TS]

  I don't know I just feel like this is [TS]

  kind of a non-story that's what I mean [TS]

  we with the main the main conclusion [TS]

  here so far is that we don't really know [TS]

  enough yet about any of these accidents [TS]

  to really know like whether the system [TS]

  was at fault or the person was a fall [TS]

  like the big one that came out like two [TS]

  weeks ago whenever that was where where [TS]

  the guy hit the truck like when under [TS]

  the truck [TS]

  mhm that one allegedly he was watching [TS]

  harry potter like the movie instead of [TS]

  watching the road so you could argue [TS]

  that the system should have seen the [TS]

  truck and stop but the fact that the [TS]

  driver might not have been even looking [TS]

  at the road at all i think kind of [TS]

  excuses assistant some degree from fault [TS]

  of that particular accident but the main [TS]

  the main problem here is that this [TS]

  system is not fully autonomous driving [TS]

  it is not a self-driving car and people [TS]

  keep kind of trying to treat it like one [TS]

  and that's just irresponsible you know [TS]

  that's it is basically advanced cruise [TS]

  control [TS]

  you wouldn't like it if people do the [TS]

  same thing with cruise control or if [TS]

  they just stopped paying attention for [TS]

  watching a movie with cruise control [TS]

  which i'm sure people have done and have [TS]

  gotten accidents as a result of that [TS]

  that's not a problem with the cruise [TS]

  control [TS]

  you know that's a problem with the [TS]

  people and autopilot wanted to direct [TS]

  comparison there because first of all I [TS]

  do think that it has been named and [TS]

  marketed in such a way to imply that [TS]

  it's smarter more capable it really is [TS]

  but the fact is it's still required to [TS]

  pay attention and they they tell you [TS]

  that you know when you turn it on [TS]

  activate tell you that in the dash it [TS]

  measures how much I think it's measuring [TS]

  resistance on the steering wheel because [TS]

  like when it's on its tears for you and [TS]

  and if you steer in a way that it [TS]

  wouldn't have buy more than like you [TS]

  know a certain amount of degrees of [TS]

  turning the wheel it deactivates itself [TS]

  and like beeps to tell you it's off so [TS]

  it has a way to measure the turning of [TS]

  the wheel and the resistance that you're [TS]

  putting on the wheel and as far as i can [TS]

  tell it's using that to determine [TS]

  whether your hands are on the wheel [TS]

  around so if you don't provide any [TS]

  justice for a while it will yell at you [TS]

  and then gradually slow down and stop if [TS]

  you don't intervene [TS]

  anyway I the system isn't a really weird [TS]

  kind of like uncanny valley kind of [TS]

  thing [TS]

  notnot the uncanny valley technically [TS]

  but like that kind of concept we're like [TS]

  it's it's so good it's so autonomous [TS]

  that it kind of encourages you not [TS]

  directly not verbally it doesn't come [TS]

  out and say it but like you are kind of [TS]

  encouraged to stop paying attention [TS]

  because you just kind of see like you [TS]

  know what my inputs not really needed [TS]

  here for a while but it's not good [TS]

  enough that you actually can stop paying [TS]

  attention responsibly and safely for [TS]

  very long if any time at all and some [TS]

  people are being completed the idiots [TS]

  with it and like getting in the backseat [TS]

  with hot something i don't know that [TS]

  people are crazy I mean that's that is [TS]

  not at all safe and nobody here because [TS]

  they're gonna kill somebody but the [TS]

  design of the system is such that the [TS]

  system is not really helping because [TS]

  like it is a little bit too smart for a [TS]

  system that people are supposed to still [TS]

  pay attention to the road while using it [TS]

  but again it's not smart enough that you [TS]

  actually can't stop so it seems weird [TS]

  kind of gray area and I also as I said [TS]

  in my post I think it should not be [TS]

  allowed on side roads i think it should [TS]

  only be allowed on interstates and maybe [TS]

  on other divided highways it right now [TS]

  you can enable it on any road and the [TS]

  only thing is that when it is not on [TS]

  what it detects as being a highway or is [TS]

  being divided highway understate it [TS]

  limits itself 25 miles per hour over the [TS]

  posted speed limit signs so you can [TS]

  still use it you just can't speed by [TS]

  more than 5 so that's not really that [TS]

  much of a limit really and it prevents [TS]

  what people were initially doing when it [TS]

  first came out and people were being all [TS]

  crazy [TS]

  trying to use it like going really fast [TS]

  on twisty side roads that was also [TS]

  really dumb and dangerous but uh I think [TS]

  it needs more restrictions because [TS]

  because like you know as I said in my [TS]

  post like it doesn't it doesn't read [TS]

  like red lights or stop signs or [TS]

  anything like that so like the [TS]

  usefulness of it on side roads is pretty [TS]

  limited anyway it really should only be [TS]

  allowed on interstates in my opinion to [TS]

  take the certain kind of person to like [TS]

  to know all that I presume all these [TS]

  people know about this them and yet [TS]

  still like to be so I don't know it to [TS]

  wish the technology into existence [TS]

  doesn't that doesn't actually exist or [TS]

  two to like it because from my [TS]

  perspective if you know that you may be [TS]

  asked to take over control of the car [TS]

  loses track of the road right you know [TS]

  that like intellectually I bet all these [TS]

  people understand that about the [TS]

  autopilot thing because it tells you on [TS]

  the screen and like they these are [TS]

  probably you know Tesla owners who know [TS]

  all about it like most tests loners are [TS]

  into their cars because it's a very rare [TS]

  car it's an expensive car you're not [TS]

  just find yourself owning a Tesla right [TS]

  everything makes me think that these [TS]

  people know that they will be asked to [TS]

  take over control if you know something [TS]

  goes wrong and I know because of my [TS]

  personality type if I was driving in a [TS]

  car where I knew that I would have to be [TS]

  a steak over something went wrong you [TS]

  don't know when that's going to be [TS]

  that's the nature of the event you don't [TS]

  know okay in five minutes you're gonna [TS]

  be a stakeout could be at any second [TS]

  how do you know when it is that you will [TS]

  be asked to take over how do you know [TS]

  when you will decide that you need to [TS]

  take over because a kid ran out into the [TS]

  road and the system didn't see him or [TS]

  what you know what everything like the [TS]

  truck to the guy went under like it [TS]

  the only way you will know is if you are [TS]

  always continually paying attention [TS]

  you can't stop paying attention for a [TS]

  second just like regular driving because [TS]

  you don't know when that event will come [TS]

  so it seems to me that there should be [TS]

  zero change in behavior when driving [TS]

  with the system but as Marco said that's [TS]

  not how people act and somehow they're [TS]

  able to square the idea that they may be [TS]

  asked to take over to second with the [TS]

  idea that they don't have to pay [TS]

  attention because it seems like they'll [TS]

  never be asked but you know you might be [TS]

  asked but it seems like you won't be and [TS]

  I have been asked for a long time so [TS]

  your brain decides you know what I'm [TS]

  never going to be asked to take over [TS]

  everything will be fine and then you get [TS]

  your head chopped off by semi right like [TS]

  then you think that you think you can [TS]

  watch a movie right [TS]

  and maybe that's just like a trap for [TS]

  people's brains where they're like I [TS]

  know intellectually that i may be asked [TS]

  to take over control at any moment but [TS]

  my lizard brain is telling me that I [TS]

  haven't been asked to do anything with [TS]

  this car for the last hour and I just [TS]

  cannot sustain the attention right [TS]

  whereas if you're a paranoid person like [TS]

  me and you like it's been an hour before [TS]

  it since I've been asked to take over [TS]

  it's you know it's gonna happen any [TS]

  second right you don't like you just [TS]

  becoming more and more paranoid but [TS]

  regular people i think are just that is [TS]

  just signal for you to stop paying [TS]

  attention and if you think you know what [TS]

  I'm probably play a card game i can [TS]

  watch a movie like they tell me I'm [TS]

  gonna be asked to take over but you know [TS]

  what maybe they're just low-balling it [TS]

  because of lawyers it's probably better [TS]

  than I think it is i'll probably be fine [TS]

  now I'm decapitated by his time you know [TS]

  it so I i agree with Marco they like [TS]

  until you like this may be a trap for [TS]

  human nature this may be a set of rules [TS]

  that is not compatible with with way [TS]

  humans work right so you have to say [TS]

  look you've gotta steer and everything [TS]

  else is like radar control cruise [TS]

  control and then there's a gap and then [TS]

  we do for autonomous right because i [TS]

  don't understand I don't not sure that [TS]

  maybe habits will change if this becomes [TS]

  widespread but i'm not sure that this [TS]

  particular set of features will survive [TS]

  both the lawyers and the public [TS]

  perception long enough for people to [TS]

  change their habits and it could be that [TS]

  hat changing habits is not sufficient [TS]

  and this is just it's human nature [TS]

  you're going to stop paying attention if [TS]

  you haven't had to do anything in the [TS]

  car for an hour and that's when you're [TS]

  gonna die I would never enable the [TS]

  speech by the way i would do radio radar [TS]

  cruise control because you're cool like [TS]

  you're like oh well cruise control same [TS]

  thing you know how to do anything four [TS]

  hours know you still have to steer even [TS]

  on the road yet to steer a little bit [TS]

  and if you're going 70 miles an hour and [TS]

  you don't make that tiny steering input [TS]

  very shortly you will be in a ditch [TS]

  right you have to be paying attention [TS]

  right and just that little bit of [TS]

  realizing this huge early hunk of metal [TS]

  is under my control and even though i [TS]

  don't have to do much have to do [TS]

  something that is enough to keep the [TS]

  tiny sort of subconscious even if it's [TS]

  not like fully conscious like I really [TS]

  paying attention their subconscious [TS]

  driving and that subconscious driving a [TS]

  semi polls in front of you you will [TS]

  notice like this your eyes or out [TS]

  without going up the win [TS]

  shield looking at the road not looking [TS]

  at harry potter and the thing like that [TS]

  I guess I was like the difference [TS]

  between the difference and usefulness to [TS]

  the driver between the radar cruise [TS]

  control that you get also and the auto [TS]

  steer autopilot mode is like the auto [TS]

  store doesn't really make it that much [TS]

  nicer for the driver like you get the [TS]

  vast majority of the value of these [TS]

  features with just the cruise control [TS]

  part of it the radar cruise control [TS]

  because it it will stop and go it'll [TS]

  maintain proper distance it uses all the [TS]

  same hardware as far as i know like to [TS]

  do this it is a very advanced system [TS]

  like okay like I've tried the 16 car [TS]

  that's a 3-series I tried the adaptive [TS]

  cruise in that a few times in a few [TS]

  trips and it's it's almost as good but [TS]

  not as good the Tesla adaptive cruise is [TS]

  really good [TS]

  it is amazing and the BMW one I had a [TS]

  couple of a little unsettling incidents [TS]

  where like the car would start [TS]

  accelerating hard in traffic and they [TS]

  were still a car in front of us and I [TS]

  had to like override wait stop then [TS]

  break that is not happen once in the [TS]

  test and I used it way more in the Tesla [TS]

  it is a really amazing system for the [TS]

  event that they have adaptive cruise [TS]

  control the autopilot on the other hand [TS]

  is that you know the auto steer part of [TS]

  it is scary and and I use that a lot to [TS]

  have been using it more even since I [TS]

  published that post you just kind of [TS]

  things kind of get an idea of like you [TS]

  know do i have the wrong impression do [TS]

  is be more time with it really get to [TS]

  know it better and so far no III don't [TS]

  need more time together to get an open [TS]

  to get to know better i still do use it [TS]

  on the highway here and there but i'm [TS]

  still I still can't trust it because [TS]

  sometimes it does things that i consider [TS]

  dangerous and whether academically it is [TS]

  dangerous or not I don't know but you [TS]

  know just things like getting too close [TS]

  to the edge of the lane when there's a [TS]

  car right in the other side or a barrier [TS]

  to the side like it does not keep you [TS]

  centered perfectly it tries to end it [TS]

  was doing some kind of smoothing I think [TS]

  we're trying to like not jerky too hard [TS]

  and you know to keep you centered so [TS]

  like kind of smoothie over and you know [TS]

  and you can like drift toward the lines [TS]

  and then drift back from the line like [TS]

  it's it's a little unsettling a lot of [TS]

  times where i will get a little too [TS]

  close to things and especially like if [TS]

  there's a car [TS]

  next to you and in the lane next to you [TS]

  that is too close to the line their side [TS]

  it doesn't it'll still drifting that [TS]

  line like I don't know how to tell him [TS]

  that if it's if it's just the ultrasonic [TS]

  sensors on the side it might be it might [TS]

  be too far detective which would be a [TS]

  little unsettling it's it's not it's [TS]

  it's a system that makes me nervous [TS]

  whenever it's on it also does things [TS]

  like you know like what I'm driving on a [TS]

  multi-lane highway no matter no matter [TS]

  what speeds we are going i will not hang [TS]

  out in somebody's blind spot i will [TS]

  speed up or slow down so that i am not [TS]

  like right next to in the car in the [TS]

  next Lane over or like right you know [TS]

  slightly behind them in there but i will [TS]

  not hang out there because I know like [TS]

  you you develop your skills as a [TS]

  responsible driver over time you start [TS]

  realizing like okay well I should [TS]

  minimize the chances that i'm going to [TS]

  get hit you know so thick that and even [TS]

  if i can legally stay right here this [TS]

  person's blind spot for a while I [TS]

  shouldn't do that because they could [TS]

  merge and not see me if I if I hang out [TS]

  here for a while that's not good so I [TS]

  won't do it [TS]

  the auto steer and auto drive they don't [TS]

  have that kind of intelligence that they [TS]

  they will not do things like that to to [TS]

  avoid possible accidents you know that [TS]

  haven't started to happen yet like they [TS]

  won't minimize the chance of danger [TS]

  though just happily go and you might be [TS]

  hanging out and somebody blind spot for [TS]

  10 minutes and not even know it [TS]

  it does kind of create this this [TS]

  expectation that it's going to be super [TS]

  safe and awesome and and his is the best [TS]

  thing to use and you don't have to pay [TS]

  attention but i don't know how many of [TS]

  those things are true and I suspect not [TS]

  all of them you're wise to get nervous [TS]

  too because like again when you're when [TS]

  you're surrendering control of the car [TS]

  it's getting close to the edge lane what [TS]

  you know and that the cars is not [TS]

  currently designed to have any awareness [TS]

  up is that you have just come fractions [TS]

  of a second closer to you know to you [TS]

  getting into an accident right because [TS]

  so if there is some erroneous steering [TS]

  input or the car gets confused for a [TS]

  moment fractions of a second matter and [TS]

  like you being in the middle of the lane [TS]

  and the car suddenly lurched is a foot [TS]

  to the left if you're paying attention [TS]

  as you should be your reaction time is [TS]

  probably enough to keep you in the lane [TS]

  you riding the line and you're paying [TS]

  attention and the car lurches to the [TS]

  left [TS]

  it could be the year [TS]

  reaction time even if you're paying a [TS]

  hundred percent attention but attention [TS]

  your reaction time is not sufficient to [TS]

  get your car before it's the guardrail [TS]

  or runs into a bridge abutment or who [TS]

  knows what else like as you get closer [TS]

  to the edge of the high-speed things [TS]

  happen really fast human reaction time [TS]

  is only so fast there's a reason we [TS]

  don't ride the edges of the lanes [TS]

  because we know that our own reaction [TS]

  time is not sufficient reason we don't [TS]

  you know grabbed it unless real jerks [TS]

  within a foot of someone else's bummer [TS]

  because we know our reaction time is not [TS]

  fast enough and 80 miles an hour to make [TS]

  that stop no matter how slowly the [TS]

  person in front of our stops it's just [TS]

  you know you can do a little time is how [TS]

  long does it take for you to move your [TS]

  foot over to the brake pedal start [TS]

  pressing it down like you distances get [TS]

  covered very quickly at high speed so [TS]

  the highways exactly the spot where you [TS]

  wouldn't want that are you saying like I [TS]

  think it's safer to have it on this [TS]

  highway the side roads at least decide [TS]

  what you're going slower speeds so it [TS]

  does make a mistake you can correct it [TS]

  relative speeds that like the person [TS]

  hitting you on the highway is probably [TS]

  gonna hit you a relative speed of like [TS]

  five miles an hour but it's not that [TS]

  it's not the hitting you with you [TS]

  hitting bridge abutment you going off to [TS]

  dinner yes that's the type of thing are [TS]

  you going under a semi or whatever it's [TS]

  all moving vehicle versus stationary [TS]

  hazard with a stationary hazards that [TS]

  truck crossing over or whatever [TS]

  whereas everything being a slower speed [TS]

  you know anyway I I would never been [TS]

  able to do things like it starts to [TS]

  bring it towards the edges lane you're [TS]

  like wait a second I would never do this [TS]

  if I was driving the car because i know [TS]

  that my reaction time is not fast enough [TS]

  like why would i be riding the edge even [TS]

  just like debris that's gonna pop a tire [TS]

  and like pulled me off his life and [TS]

  that's taking out of the equation the [TS]

  idea that the car might someone get [TS]

  confused and turn in a weird direction [TS]

  or start accelerating or decelerating [TS]

  like that's just just me driving the car [TS]

  in my complete control [TS]

  I wouldn't ride the edge of line because [TS]

  i know that's dumb and you know we're [TS]

  coming up on the bridge now I'm gonna [TS]

  take off my side mirror like I wouldn't [TS]

  do that and to let a car do it and to [TS]

  know that during that time the car is [TS]

  still in control and can do something [TS]

  weird just it's just a terrible idea to [TS]

  to deal with the system at all like [TS]

  drive your car or don't drive your car [TS]

  and currently we don't have the option [TS]

  of not driving your car so just drive [TS]

  your car [TS]