The Accidental Tech Podcast

177: Paying for Someone to Blame


  I'm actually fighting with a fly in my [TS]

  order your market with here the fly [TS]

  later [TS]

  that's right trying to track down and [TS]

  kill this file i'll get it eventually i [TS]

  feel like i have to have to take a break [TS]

  from the show for me 200 down but anyway [TS]

  going to lend you an ipad 2 forgot about [TS]

  that [TS]

  oh god that's old-school good this talk [TS]

  amongst yourselves for a moment I will [TS]

  kill or shoot this fly out of the room [TS]

  needs to be done [TS]

  I'm this slide this fly did not want to [TS]

  leave did not want to die had how'd you [TS]

  convince it did you argue with it until [TS]

  I realized it was wrong I would have [TS]

  killed if I could fuck a lot of stuff [TS]

  going on land [TS]

  I was trying to get it to leave the room [TS]

  so I was turning off the lights in this [TS]

  room and turning on bright lights [TS]

  elsewhere to try to lower it out if you [TS]

  want you can be talking about definitely [TS]

  leave immediately its truth just bore it [TS]

  out of the room [TS]

  no flies love destiny so afraid of the [TS]

  show David nyan wrote in and he has [TS]

  opinions about universal remotes and [TS]

  things of that nature of super duper [TS]

  frame Damien yeah one of our backup [TS]

  application that you should use or [TS]

  equivalent to make multiple backups of [TS]

  your stuff anyway I think he just he's [TS]

  not talking about universal remotes I'm [TS]

  sorry talk about CC yeah it he has a [TS]

  very all have been a proponent of the [TS]

  spend a lot of money to solve your [TS]

  electronics problem solution which is [TS]

  one possible solution i've never been [TS]

  particularly a fan of it because I feel [TS]

  like I'm sure no no matter how not [TS]

  because i don't want to spend a lot of [TS]

  money on things I've ever really [TS]

  expensive TV but I feel like no matter [TS]

  how much money you spend it will still [TS]

  never work right and you'll feel worse [TS]

  if you spend a lot more money but anyway [TS]

  he's happy with his setup he has been [TS]

  awesome stuff and he has a bang and [TS]

  olufsen TV which itself acts as like the [TS]

  hub for everything is like six hdmi [TS]

  inputs and built-in sound system that [TS]

  you can connect like 18 speakers to the [TS]

  TV and it does wireless stuff and [TS]

  integrates with like home control [TS]

  systems you can raise and lower your [TS]

  Brian lines and turn on your lights and [TS]

  security cameras i call all the rich [TS]

  people stuff than you would imagine [TS]

  and because the TV itself is the hub for [TS]

  all the stuff you don't have a situation [TS]

  like Casey described last time above the [TS]

  universal remote having to track the [TS]

  state of all your devices and if it gets [TS]

  out of sync that's very confused the TV [TS]

  knows the state of everything because it [TS]

  is the hub for everything and it can you [TS]

  know sense when it's getting input on [TS]

  different things and the speakers hooked [TS]

  up directly to the television so it [TS]

  takes a lot of the guesswork and they [TS]

  have all these fancy pants things where [TS]

  you can take all your equipment that's [TS]

  big and noisy and put in the basement [TS]

  and connected with a big ethernet cable [TS]

  up to your system upstairs you can hide [TS]

  all the stuff it all all the the things [TS]

  that you would spend thousands and [TS]

  thousands of dollars for course the [TS]

  downside of this is you have to at the [TS]

  very least have this big fancy bang & [TS]

  olufsen TV and some other proprietary [TS]

  components that go with it and thinking [TS]

  Olson doesn't really make the tvs that's [TS]

  that's the problem right so I the [TS]

  television that I have at the time that [TS]

  i bought it how do i bought a fancy bag [TS]

  and also thing i would be getting a [TS]

  worse television set terms of picture [TS]

  quality in exchange for all the other [TS]

  stuff so i'm still stuck because of my [TS]

  priorities buying individual components [TS]

  and slapping them together and trying to [TS]

  make do with it but if you're willing to [TS]

  compromise on not having the absolute [TS]

  very best of every individual component [TS]

  you can buy an integrated solution for [TS]

  tremendous amount of money that I don't [TS]

  think it's worth it but you'll be happy [TS]

  together by another solution i was [TS]

  asking a while back and Twitter of the [TS]

  best solution for we talk about the show [TS]

  for me to get the video off of my [TS]

  blu-rays without recompress in it just [TS]

  preserve exactly bit for bit the way it [TS]

  is in my blu-rays and then playback my [TS]

  television without having a spinning [TS]

  plastic disc that's making pretty isn't [TS]

  it [TS]

  that'll do know there but remember I was [TS]

  the issue was playback I can't get 24 [TS]

  frame 24 frames per second cadence [TS]

  playback I'd oh yeah [TS]

  Long's anyway we talked about that a [TS]

  show which none of us will be remember [TS]

  in the show notes but anyway one of the [TS]

  rich person solutions that as those [TS]

  boxes they sell that I think is that [TS]

  technically legal biggest someone paid a [TS]

  lot of money to the blu-ray association [TS]

  where you by the super expensive box and [TS]

  you feed it either all your blu rays in [TS]

  a big box or one at a time and it [TS]

  basically rip your blu rays for you lost [TS]

  unless you play them back [TS]

  but it does it in a way that like [TS]

  complies with the letter of the law I [TS]

  don't know whatever it's not a pirate [TS]

  saying it's entirely legal thing but is [TS]

  tremendously expensive and it's just [TS]

  that it's like outside the amount of [TS]

  money i'm willing to pay for that i'll [TS]

  just stick the disc and DVD but in the [TS]

  blu-ray player and deal with the [TS]

  spinning disk noise at this point but [TS]

  hopefully we'll get there eventually [TS]

  wear clothes like that were really close [TS]

  the only barrier remaining is me not [TS]

  having a way to play that content back [TS]

  on my television preserving the correct [TS]

  you know from reading everything without [TS]

  doing a spinning disk i should point out [TS]

  that i have achieved eighty percent of [TS]

  this guy i also would have the same [TS]

  problem with 24 frames a second but I [TS]

  don't care you don't think I have [TS]

  anything of that right and I usually [TS]

  watch TV shows but III rip the entire [TS]

  wire blu-ray set and it was very very [TS]

  easy with modern tools because all I had [TS]

  to do was use make MKV to rip blu-ray [TS]

  and then sub-layer to basically rewrap [TS]

  it in an mp4 container without having to [TS]

  transcode the video I i believe a [TS]

  transfer the audio because i don't care [TS]

  about surround sound please email john [TS]

  and your modified it already [TS]

  yeah well who cares but that's optional [TS]

  you could have left the the giant like [TS]

  ac3 and DTS tracks on there if you [TS]

  really wanted to but I don't even have [TS]

  surround speakers anymore because I [TS]

  decided years ago they weren't worth the [TS]

  hassle so anyway so i was able to rip [TS]

  the entire TV series with with sub layer [TS]

  and make MKV in surprising little time [TS]

  and just like this like this roughly [TS]

  hundred-dollar USB 3 blu-ray drive that [TS]

  i thought i had in the closet from [TS]

  little while back and yeah it works [TS]

  great and now I play them in flex and [TS]

  it's you know that so it has all the [TS]

  metadata from flex somehow magically [TS]

  through some probably not quite legal [TS]

  service and it's great i absolutely love [TS]

  it and it's it's it's way faster and [TS]

  more reliable and way better quality [TS]

  than the HBO GO [TS]

  now many at whatever it is the HP mini [TS]

  app on TV it's way better than that way [TS]

  better quality no dropping frames issues [TS]

  so it isn't dirty it wasn't a problem [TS]

  that they write anything as a problem [TS]

  with HBO sucking and yeah [TS]

  overall a great solution to watch any [TS]

  kind of HBO show [TS]

  by the blu-rays and rip them all and it [TS]

  actually works surprisingly well that's [TS]

  what I do with the content i don't [TS]

  actually care about my character I [TS]

  needed to be the highest possible [TS]

  quality so yeah I have tons of stuff [TS]

  complex i have tons of things that are [TS]

  you nope but for the things I care about [TS]

  I want the very best quality and that's [TS]

  still putting the disc in a little Drive [TS]

  wait a minute those so the only [TS]

  limitation of what I was just saying is [TS]

  possibly audio does if the appletv can [TS]

  output whatever DTS whatever over the [TS]

  optical port then you wouldn't have any [TS]

  quality problems right [TS]

  optical bored you can do it over hdmi if [TS]

  it's it smart enough a lot a lot of the [TS]

  applications won't send the unmodified a [TS]

  audio like they won't send the DTS HD [TS]

  stream directly to my receiver they just [TS]

  want to do it even better flex would our [TS]

  this probably an opportunity plaques and [TS]

  infuse it depends on which one is in the [TS]

  best mood or like it the d/s video app I [TS]

  have many options to do it but really [TS]

  this video because that the most of the [TS]

  content really care about mostly talking [TS]

  about movies and they're 24 frames per [TS]

  second that's a dealbreaker I can't get [TS]

  that to my TV any other way [TS]

  yeah and then thats indefinitely [TS]

  hardware issue right either you don't [TS]

  have any any TV boxes that run software [TS]

  that could play movies and without put [TS]

  the right signal it's not hardware and [TS]

  software like Apple TV could be changed [TS]

  in such a way to output 24 frames per [TS]

  second cadence video is not you know my [TS]

  playstation 3 can output that that's [TS]

  what I put the blu-ray into right [TS]

  I've even tried putting the putting the [TS]

  video files on the playstation 3 and [TS]

  having it do it but I still can't get [TS]

  that to work either so the only time I [TS]

  playstation 3 outputs in this way is one [TS]

  is playing a blue right the the apple TV [TS]

  is always locked it you know 60 [TS]

  frames-per-second whatever it's [TS]

  outputting out and just ran you know we [TS]

  went to this in the past yeah so it but [TS]

  I had nothing we can do it is no [TS]

  technical reasons like things are [TS]

  powerful enough for whatever a lot of [TS]

  people have your televisions than mine [TS]

  they can do the you know the one called [TS]

  the detecting the cadence and accounting [TS]

  for and everything but I've run all the [TS]

  video test and it just nothing can get [TS]

  24 frames per second out there except [TS]

  for my blu-ray player so that's what i [TS]

  keep using my next set up hopefully [TS]

  we'll be able to do it if not it's not [TS]

  the end of the world like a blu-ray [TS]

  players like it's not a thing i do [TS]

  frequently and it's only for a small [TS]

  subset of movies so just keep sticking a [TS]

  discount [TS]

  although my solution doesn't have fan [TS]

  noise either but you're missing out on [TS]

  the things that John's eyeballs can't [TS]

  even see if you don't know that he's [TS]

  missing out on it i can see them but a [TS]

  couple thoughts are mostly on what I [TS]

  market said I'd like to completely agree [TS]

  with him about making MKV it is [TS]

  wonderful especially as paired with if [TS]

  you're willing to recompress stuff down [TS]

  mountains compression scripts which [TS]

  we've talked about the past and i [TS]

  believe i've written a post about at [TS]

  some point or another if I have put in [TS]

  the show notes [TS]

  oh yeah those are awesome but the bit [TS]

  like nowadays like its I mean Rican [TS]

  pressing blueberries is a pretty is [TS]

  still even a modern hardware still a [TS]

  very computer intensive pretty long [TS]

  running process and you can just run [TS]

  them in a batch overnight but still it [TS]

  still takes a lot and if you have any [TS]

  way to use three-and-a-half-inch hard [TS]

  drives as your storage yeah so anyway [TS]

  whether that's external drive in your [TS]

  desk or an ass in the closet full of [TS]

  discs whatever-it-is [TS]

  three-and-a-half-inch hard drives are so [TS]

  massive and cheap these days that looks [TS]

  like you just have like basically [TS]

  infinite storage space if you can use [TS]

  those dr somehow and so I just you know [TS]

  what these days I ripped the heart [TS]

  rhythm all from blu-rays and the whole [TS]

  wire series is 560 gigs from the [TS]

  principal and it doesn't matter if [TS]

  possible most feature films are 30 or 40 [TS]

  cakes i think something like that and [TS]

  the wires considerably longer than that [TS]

  and to go back one more step you are [TS]

  talking and I know you said it jokingly [TS]

  about Osama legal way that lets get some [TS]

  metadata I don't believe it's legal at [TS]

  all they don't use a IMDb which I [TS]

  presume is for some sort of Licensing [TS]

  reason or something but they do use the [TS]

  TV database which is the TV and [TS]

  the movie database which is the movie [TS]

  DVD org and we'll put those links in the [TS]

  show notes [TS]

  those are less geared around browsing in [TS]

  my opinion who did what and when and [TS]

  more about getting metadata about films [TS]

  which is probably why plex uses it but [TS]

  they are to the best of my knowledge [TS]

  completely legal [TS]

  what about like all the copyrighted [TS]

  material on them is that like it was [TS]

  weird grey areas or is it that you mean [TS]

  like the google image search for movie [TS]

  posters and rest shove them in there [TS]

  probably not really oh that's true [TS]

  actually [TS]

  didn't think about that I don't know but [TS]

  anyway anything else on video and that [TS]

  sort of thing we have one other piece of [TS]

  follow-up real quick though I do have a [TS]

  quick bit of follow-up on my hdmi-cec [TS]

  situation [TS]

  mmm the setting was off i told you so [TS]

  huh that's the KC KC debug your problem [TS]

  you're right yeah I I hadn't checked I [TS]

  didn't even know you could turn it off [TS]

  so I hadn't checked it and it was on [TS]

  what like it worked for months [TS]

  somehow it turned off it's pretty deep [TS]

  in settings i'm pretty sure i would have [TS]

  accidentally done that since I never go [TS]

  to settings screen but a matter maybe it [TS]

  maybe one of the software updates [TS]

  might've turned it off i don't know what [TS]

  are the features of CC is they can take [TS]

  in turn off CC goodness gracious [TS]

  alright the last piece follow-up we have [TS]

  from friend of the show Matt Bischoff [TS]

  John I think especially was talking last [TS]

  episode about what ingredients are in [TS]

  what I screams and yells hey it's in [TS]

  John's opinion if i recall correctly [TS]

  said there should only be a handful of [TS]

  ingredients they need in any true [TS]

  indecent ice cream and Matt Bischoff has [TS]

  done a survey of many of the popular ice [TS]

  cream brands we've mentioned and even a [TS]

  couple of others and put together an air [TS]

  table which is the site i've never heard [TS]

  of before but it's very cool [TS]

  I'm it looks like basically a a Google [TS]

  sheet or Excel spreadsheet if you will [TS]

  but also a little bit more than that and [TS]

  so you can see all the different [TS]

  ingredients matt has included the [TS]

  ingredients ingredients count calories [TS]

  per serving serving size colors program [TS]

  and even links because he is that [TS]

  thorough is there anything that guy [TS]

  doesn't to pretty much perfectly i doubt [TS]

  it but anyway worth checking out John [TS]

  now that you've seen this any opinions [TS]

  on any of the stuff a lot of people [TS]

  wanted to write in and tell me why all [TS]

  those ingredients are in there [TS]

  I know why they're in there [TS]

  unfortunately the list of ingredients [TS]

  doesn't tell you what i really want to [TS]

  know which one should emphasize last [TS]

  time is how much of this stuff right so [TS]

  the things that we're talking about that [TS]

  are not things that you would put an ice [TS]

  cream that you making your own house [TS]

  with your ice cream maker which by the [TS]

  way is really easy and everyone should [TS]

  do it doesn't take a lot of room you [TS]

  should get one they're fun is there [TS]

  putting ingredients to make it so that [TS]

  when the ice cream thaws and then [TS]

  refreezes you don't get those big chunky [TS]

  ice crystals you ever do that if you [TS]

  with any way I from the star whatever [TS]

  like it was a little bit and like are [TS]

  here if your refrigerator [TS]

  our freezer like you could leave the [TS]

  door open or something or the power goes [TS]

  out for a long time everything kind of [TS]

  like melts a little bit but then [TS]

  refreezes and then you take this year I [TS]

  got you can tell that it's melted and [TS]

  refrozen and I someone can find a [TS]

  physics video in youtube explaining how [TS]

  like the the ice crystals with the water [TS]

  separates from the non motor parts then [TS]

  informs larger ice crystals and taste [TS]

  all crunchy and gross and you don't like [TS]

  that bet egg yolk is one example of like [TS]

  an emulsifier essentially that will keep [TS]

  the things mixed together kind of like [TS]

  how i do can I get a salad dressing will [TS]

  keep the oil and vinegar mixed together [TS]

  it will keep them from separating same [TS]

  thing will keep like the liquid the [TS]

  water from separating from the solid [TS]

  ingredients making the big ice crystal [TS]

  symmetry melts at you some more [TS]

  expensive obviously almost all the other [TS]

  things they put in these various gums [TS]

  and other called stabilizers for [TS]

  stabilizer is because they want to [TS]

  account for the fact the ice cream is [TS]

  going to be shipped from far away in [TS]

  trucks with imperfect refrigeration and [TS]

  it's going to melt and refreeze the [TS]

  melting or freezing melting and [TS]

  refreezing I didn't have the stabilizers [TS]

  in them that it would taste terrible [TS]

  would just be like you know big chunky [TS]

  water sharp ice crystals in there [TS]

  doesn't taste good you want to be smooth [TS]

  and creamy so the cheaper ice creams in [TS]

  addition to this thing of what is it [TS]

  called overrun i forget what the hell is [TS]

  called how much air they blow into it to [TS]

  make you buy air instead of densely [TS]

  packed think that's why haagen-dazs is [TS]

  more dense than regular stuff but anyway [TS]

  setting aside the air thing because some [TS]

  people just like a soft dry ice cream [TS]

  that the cheaper the ice cream the more [TS]

  stabilizer they put in it and they put [TS]

  lots and lots of stabilized to be very [TS]

  resilient to freezing and thawing and [TS]

  they don't have to put in the egg yolks [TS]

  or any other more expensive ingredient [TS]

  in there and it's still you know seems [TS]

  smooth and creamy no matter where you [TS]

  get so not just that there are [TS]

  stabilizers it's how much and the [TS]

  ingredient list doesn't tell you how [TS]

  much but they don't have a mouse just an [TS]

  order by you know the most agree that [TS]

  there's the most of and then the second [TS]

  most and so on and so forth but it [TS]

  doesn't give you numbers and my [TS]

  impression of the really the worst ice [TS]

  cream flavors they have a lot of [TS]

  stabilizers and a lot of other things [TS]

  that affect texture and stuff and that [TS]

  there's more of them that you know i [TS]

  would like it [TS]

  haagen-dazs couple their flavors have [TS]

  some stabilizing but not a lot and as my [TS]

  impression and then other ones that have [TS]

  the exact same ingredient lists tastes [TS]

  like I'm eating [TS]

  I don't foam rubber or something it just [TS]

  doesn't taste right ace natural so [TS]

  that's and this this list like going [TS]

  down to coldstone creamery having 17 [TS]

  ingredients including like ethyl alcohol [TS]

  and artificial flavor whatever that is [TS]

  and triethyl citrate and you know all [TS]

  sorts of other things to that effect the [TS]

  color the flavor and then to of avoiding [TS]

  those ice crystals and everything and [TS]

  what I heard from somebody was it and [TS]

  others Twitter or someone email me or [TS]

  something about how to ask for example [TS]

  how can they get away with not having [TS]

  stabilizers and for example there are no [TS]

  ice cream [TS]

  how can they do that because apparently [TS]

  they own the distribution train chain [TS]

  and their own their own refrigerated [TS]

  trucks they basically make sure that [TS]

  their ice cream never never melts and [TS]

  refuses because if you were to melt and [TS]

  reorganize I've done it [TS]

  we have power outages and stuff it is [TS]

  terrible to count all the ice crystals a [TS]

  four-minute no stabilizers except [TS]

  Regulus which are expensive right so [TS]

  anyway try making your own ice cream try [TS]

  avoiding the ice cream is not that have [TS]

  any stabilizers and but they basically [TS]

  tastes like you're eating a big thing of [TS]

  plastic and you'll be happier [TS]

  yeah i mean just try of traveling the [TS]

  ones whose ingredient sound like jet [TS]

  fuel is basically a good rule here also [TS]

  a quick follow-up a handful of people [TS]

  wrote me to say oh I didn't know that [TS]

  dryers or briars was Edie's where you [TS]

  are and and so on and so forth and and [TS]

  apparently i got myself very mixed up [TS]

  about what's Edie's vs dryers vs briars [TS]

  and so I had commented that the slow [TS]

  churned which I think had I had [TS]

  attributed to dryers the slow turn which [TS]

  is the low fat ice cream is actually my [TS]

  favorite by taste ice cream which I know [TS]

  John really really hates and somebody [TS]

  wrote not only me but ed is ice cream on [TS]

  Twitter to say you know hey what's the [TS]

  story I thought that was a tease and it [TS]

  is [TS]

  Edie's where I am I had been confused [TS]

  Andes ice cream is written Edie's is [TS]

  called dryers west of the Rocky [TS]

  Mountains and just FYI it's delicious no [TS]

  matter what you call it I think so thank [TS]

  you tease social media team for [TS]

  correcting my unbelievable faux pas [TS]

  that's one of my least favorite brands [TS]

  of ice cream eating yeah but I should [TS]

  recognize the container with states it's [TS]

  the same drivers just as [TS]

  word on it's kind of like the helmets [TS]

  and best foods made a situation one [TS]

  flavor of ease though is a flavor this [TS]

  ties into last week that I don't think [TS]

  it's available anywhere else that I [TS]

  think tastes pretty terrible and does [TS]

  not taste like it tastes very artificial [TS]

  to me and yet i still find myself eating [TS]

  it was probably bad is that they make a [TS]

  flavor that has basically suppose mixed [TS]

  into the ice cream [TS]

  oh I tried that it's it I found it [TS]

  overwhelmingly like artificial and we're [TS]

  totally enjoyed it totally tastes like [TS]

  you're eating like puffy plastic with [TS]

  some oohs and yes and yet i still find [TS]

  myself eating it so that's like I mean I [TS]

  don't I would never buy willingly but [TS]

  sometimes it appears in the house when [TS]

  it does appear in the house i usually [TS]

  want touchy these at all but that when i [TS]

  will text i would feel bad i would stop [TS]

  myself after a little tiny been put it [TS]

  back but yeah I mean is that that's the [TS]

  draw the Samoans i guess but I repulsed [TS]

  by the ice cream be drawn by the broken [TS]

  cookies are first sponsor tonight is [TS]

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  being stylish to work with you [TS]

  trunk club makes it easy to look your [TS]

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  handpicked by your own personal stylist [TS]

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  call truck right so here's how this [TS]

  works you can keep this in front of 10 [TS]

  days try mon feel them out [TS]

  keep what you like and just send back [TS]

  what you don't and they just charge you [TS]

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  a week [TS]

  whatever you want you request them to [TS]

  send you a box of new stuff you up to 10 [TS]

  days to figure out whether you want to [TS]

  keep any of it or not you keep what you [TS]

  want the charging for that you send the [TS]

  rest back and that's it is risk-free [TS]

  there's no subscription fee no auto [TS]

  billing nothing like that i had no idea [TS]

  that wasn't subscription it isn't [TS]

  subscription and it's for men and women [TS]

  by the way so make a statement the next [TS]

  big event in your calendar with a look [TS]

  at handpick just for you and your style [TS]

  get started a trunk club today this is [TS]

  premium clothes expert advice from real [TS]

  human stylists with no word from you go [TS]

  to trunk club com / ATP to get started [TS]

  today once again that's trunk club com / [TS]

  ATP thanks a lot for sponsoring I've [TS]

  done a terrible job with my duties as [TS]

  chief summarizer in chief and I have not [TS]

  done my homework I've pulled a Marco and [TS]

  I apologize to everyone welcome it's [TS]

  nice over here [TS]

  really it was very relaxing i will admit [TS]

  so apparently something has happened [TS]

  with iCloud vs dropbox for Scrivener is [TS]

  that how you pronounce at Scribner [TS]

  sinking and I don't know which one you [TS]

  put this in the show notes but I will [TS]

  kick it over to you to take over my [TS]

  duties and the mantle can guess [TS]

  yeah I figured it was you but I also [TS]

  didn't hear about this this is gonna be [TS]

  a short segment we all right John tell [TS]

  us about Scribner if you please it's my [TS]

  old news and I bring it back up to the [TS]

  top because it ties into our past [TS]

  discussions about a PFS and the cloning [TS]

  of entire directory hierarchies without [TS]

  having to like go down and copy each [TS]

  individual file dressed up to clone a [TS]

  whole tree of the file system in a copy [TS]

  in right manner which is good for apples [TS]

  file formats that are actually folders [TS]

  for files also Scrivener is a word [TS]

  processing application for like it i [TS]

  think design most for writing like books [TS]

  you can have like notes and your [TS]

  outlines and plot summary and character [TS]

  information all tied together with your [TS]

  manuscript the book you're writing and [TS]

  everything and it uses a file format [TS]

  that's also a directory full of files [TS]

  you can have all these different things [TS]

  it's basically like a big project format [TS]

  right and they have a sinking system and [TS]

  they were going to use iCloud apparently [TS]

  but we're not able to because it doesn't [TS]

  provide the features they need to sync [TS]

  there [TS]

  directory for files things that they're [TS]

  gonna try to be nice as much sweet love [TS]

  iCloud this is from this webpage link in [TS]

  the show notes current from the script [TS]

  of people themselves current limitations [TS]

  and in the end difficulties with iCloud [TS]

  mean it's not great present [TS]

  not at present suited for the sort of [TS]

  complex package base file format used by [TS]

  scoring you would think it would be [TS]

  totally suited for that because Apple [TS]

  has those file formats to and you know [TS]

  the next operating system and sort of [TS]

  the genesis of those file formats of the [TS]

  popularization of them anyway but no [TS]

  dropbox on the other hand which is what [TS]

  they do use first thing solution gives [TS]

  them the control they need and one of [TS]

  the big complaints but I cloud is they [TS]

  don't know when things will sink it's [TS]

  not as if they can initiate a sink and [TS]

  get notified when it's done things just [TS]

  magically appear behind the scenes in [TS]

  sort of a background manner and that can [TS]

  leave this file format this folder for [TS]

  files in an unknown inconsistent state [TS]

  and so what they say in this blog post [TS]

  about his technical limitations is [TS]

  they'd rather have use complaining they [TS]

  don't like manually sinking then the [TS]

  just lost for hours of writing because [TS]

  of structural changes like you could end [TS]

  up with a document like if you saying [TS]

  you think you're doing your clothes [TS]

  letting your laptop but didn't really [TS]

  finish you got like a half finished [TS]

  document there and that's bad and [TS]

  dropbox apparently gives them the [TS]

  control to sink the whole thing on [TS]

  demand let me know when it's done either [TS]

  have the thing entirely synced or [TS]

  entirely in the previous state clear [TS]

  with apple's new file system that they [TS]

  will have at least on a local side the [TS]

  ability to do these operations [TS]

  atomically but their iCloud api's with [TS]

  the sort of magic [TS]

  oh you don't need to know the details [TS]

  just so there's a folder there and [TS]

  eventually the documents you want to [TS]

  appear everywhere and in the meantime [TS]

  there's like proxy documents that you [TS]

  can get metadata about and so it doesn't [TS]

  work when what you care about is not an [TS]

  individual file but entire directory [TS]

  full of files because apparently that [TS]

  that you know the iCloud Drive and sick [TS]

  people were on the same page with the [TS]

  people writing that are tfd files and [TS]

  text editor maybe doesn't matter when [TS]

  you've got a half-finished rd file may [TS]

  assume it will sink in the rest of the [TS]

  way anyway this is yet another sad story [TS]

  of a developer who desperately wants to [TS]

  use iCloud eventually having to go to a [TS]

  different solution very often developers [TS]

  are all their own solutions or they go a [TS]

  dropbox or something else is sort of the [TS]

  the ongoing failure of [TS]

  icloud to fulfill the even the most [TS]

  basic needs of some of the best [TS]

  developers of mac applications or iOS [TS]

  applications that matter files thinking [TS]

  is your data syncing is hard in general [TS]

  and I think what we see is iCloud Drive [TS]

  and you know it's in other words [TS]

  examples where like when I clad [TS]

  interacts with the filesystem it's not [TS]

  it's not always great [TS]

  it seems like cloudkit and what they've [TS]

  made with cloudkit is able to be really [TS]

  great and you know it with certain apps [TS]

  with certain things that go well they'll [TS]

  be really great but whenever I said [TS]

  interacts with like files on disk that [TS]

  have to existing file system and be [TS]

  interacted with it in other ways as well [TS]

  that is that seems like it's not even [TS]

  there yet and I worry about that a [TS]

  little bit but you know we have other [TS]

  solutions for that we have dropbox we [TS]

  have well drop box and it's and it seems [TS]

  to work well for most people so i guess [TS]

  it's okay now I is located in the in the [TS]

  grand scheme of things but it was kind [TS]

  of sad that Apple is still not really [TS]

  playing well in that game [TS]

  I mean on the individual file basis to [TS]

  have most of this was not the whole idea [TS]

  is the difference between an API where [TS]

  you say please do sink now like even a [TS]

  synchronous API where you say make this [TS]

  call and when the call returns the thing [TS]

  i asked to be done is done that can work [TS]

  on individual file basis and cloud is [TS]

  much more like that and that you have [TS]

  the control over that i'm not sure if [TS]

  they complain about clouds kit [TS]

  specifically for iCloud Drive that [TS]

  doesn't like magically got in the back [TS]

  but all that is on a single individual [TS]

  file there's no sort of like oh this [TS]

  entire tree of files i want you to think [TS]

  all that and tell me when all that is [TS]

  done unless you're going to try to each [TS]

  individual one and then what about files [TS]

  that have been added or removed there's [TS]

  no there's no api for to do things at [TS]

  that level and the related thing that [TS]

  came up today [TS]

  this is about the Sierra beta maybe I [TS]

  shouldn't say who's reporting this [TS]

  because I don't know what you're [TS]

  supposed to say about the Sierra bait is [TS]

  a public beta i don't know i don't know [TS]

  the rules in your but anyway we all know [TS]

  from the keynote that mac OS Sierra has [TS]

  this feature where it will automatically [TS]

  sync your desktop remember that like all [TS]

  the stuff you need to stop between your [TS]

  max and also apparently your documents [TS]

  folder I figure it is when i installed [TS]

  it's like a checkbox or something hey do [TS]

  you want [TS]

  do you want like Apple to sync all the [TS]

  stuff in your documents folder and [TS]

  desktop and I was like hell no discussed [TS]

  in the past likely has done to anyway so [TS]

  someone someone we all know check that [TS]

  checkbox to see what it was like and [TS]

  like bodyguards and especially have one [TS]

  computer like da it's thinking stuff or [TS]

  whatever and at some point it they said [TS]

  all right i want to stop doing that and [TS]

  like uncheck the checkbox and when you [TS]

  uncheck it's like I that you know that [TS]

  the phrasing they use like when you go [TS]

  into the iCloud preference pane and [TS]

  uncheck like contacts or something or [TS]

  whatever and it's like keep in mind that [TS]

  the whatever it will no longer be [TS]

  available on your Mac you know that [TS]

  everything that was like the way they [TS]

  don't want to say we're going to delete [TS]

  your stuff but they're like whatever [TS]

  you're talking about will no longer be [TS]

  available on your Mac or some somebody [TS]

  like that and i don't know if people [TS]

  really know what that means [TS]

  I mean it's kind of it's accurate but it [TS]

  means like your stuff go bye-bye now [TS]

  like it's not gonna be there anything [TS]

  we're going to delete it and and this [TS]

  person who's checking this box like but [TS]

  this is my documents folder surely don't [TS]

  they don't mean they'll remove [TS]

  everything in my documents folder if I [TS]

  check this checkbox right so this person [TS]

  unchecked it and lo and behold the [TS]

  documents everything in the documents [TS]

  folder went away like everything [TS]

  oh now it's not really gone apparently [TS]

  like the system is is scrolling it away [TS]

  in a different location if you know [TS]

  where you can you can you know find it [TS]

  it's still there like and you can make [TS]

  you come back we succinct and all that [TS]

  other stuff but this is probably working [TS]

  like as designed [TS]

  but a this is a terrifying design [TS]

  because i don't think people expected to [TS]

  happen i think people mostly do keep [TS]

  everything that they care about on their [TS]

  desktop in the document soldier if they [TS]

  were to uncheck the checkbox it [TS]

  everything disappeared even if they can [TS]

  get it back by rechecking the the panic [TS]

  and the trust lost by that interaction [TS]

  is terrible and then set the other part [TS]

  of that is if anything does go wrong and [TS]

  you check the checkbox to try to get it [TS]

  back and it gives you back like an old [TS]

  version of the file or something like it [TS]

  which you know could happen because [TS]

  think it's really hard that's going to [TS]

  be just insult on top of injury will be [TS]

  be terrible so I really hope they [TS]

  reconsider this interface and the whole [TS]

  idea [TS]

  this is a series of check boxes that you [TS]

  can check the mixed up with like one of [TS]

  the most important [TS]

  sort of user interface decisions that [TS]

  dropbox made was that the files in [TS]

  dropbox will want to talk about this [TS]

  marvelous dropboxes project infinite [TS]

  which changes this soon but the files in [TS]

  dropbox folder or just plain files on [TS]

  your Mac if you turn dropbox off those [TS]

  files are still sitting on your Mac [TS]

  exactly where they were [TS]

  if you never run dropbox again those [TS]

  files are still just sitting there right [TS]

  there not drop box doesn't like control [TS]

  those files to the point where I go you [TS]

  quit dropbox your entire dropbox folder [TS]

  is empty [TS]

  no they're just files on your disk when [TS]

  you turn dropbox on it looks at it is [TS]

  dropbox folder and sinks the mall and [TS]

  does all this stuff or whatever when you [TS]

  turn it off or if dropbox crashes in the [TS]

  middle [TS]

  everything is just exactly the way it [TS]

  was because they're just real files on [TS]

  your disk and yes that means that if you [TS]

  have five computers all using dropbox [TS]

  you have five individual different [TS]

  copies of those same files and if you [TS]

  installed dropbox from all of them not [TS]

  all five computers have the same files [TS]

  on them but they're just plain files on [TS]

  disk same is true of iCloud Drive but [TS]

  the policy is saying when you uncheck [TS]

  this checkbox the only way we can deal [TS]

  with it is to remove these things from [TS]

  your documents folder from your desktop [TS]

  and blanket out and put them into a [TS]

  different folder even or do anything [TS]

  with them at all other than to leave [TS]

  them exactly where they are is that is [TS]

  the wrong decision even if it works [TS]

  perfectly so anyway [TS]

  Sierra's beta i don't know if this was [TS]

  intended feature a bug anything you know [TS]

  but plenty of Asterix and caveats on [TS]

  this I'm not slamming and release [TS]

  operating system but i really hope when [TS]

  this feature does exist that has a [TS]

  better policy than that and even it [TS]

  doesn't snow on enabling it because i [TS]

  still find a scary [TS]

  yeah i mean i think this is one of those [TS]

  problems where you know but when you [TS]

  have like the the folder full of files [TS]

  that need to be synced there are so many [TS]

  weird little uncomfortable edge cases or [TS]

  areas where you need some kind of [TS]

  administrator tools so for instance any [TS]

  kind of merge conflict or like what [TS]

  dropbox does which we learn about with [TS]

  our with our discussion about filenames [TS]

  apparently like Dropbox will create like [TS]

  a conflict if you have two different [TS]

  unicode encoding to the same name it [TS]

  will just leave them both there and [TS]

  we'll rename one or both of them like [TS]

  naming conflicts or something like that [TS]

  right and what if if you have a merge [TS]

  conflict in dropbox it keeps both or all [TS]

  three files and it just renamed them [TS]

  with parenthesis at the end like [TS]

  no you know conflict version whatever [TS]

  whatever whatever whatever other format [TS]

  they use and these are all kind of ugly [TS]

  solutions to real-world conditions but [TS]

  these are the kind of these are the kind [TS]

  of like ugly results that you kind of [TS]

  can't automate this away in a way that [TS]

  will never lose data for people or that [TS]

  will that will always do exactly what [TS]

  people want to do but Apple tries to so [TS]

  Apple Apple seems like the kind of [TS]

  institutionally allergic to adding in [TS]

  these kind of like administrative [TS]

  ugliness things that even when they have [TS]

  to be there like a case like a merge [TS]

  conflict on file-sharing like a dropbox [TS]

  folder Apple solution is usually we're [TS]

  just gonna guess and hope that we guess [TS]

  right through some kind of heuristics [TS]

  that will probably write most of the [TS]

  time and if that will just deal with it [TS]

  like that will just be the way it dealt [TS]

  with then if you lose data oh well like [TS]

  that seems to be their approach most of [TS]

  the time of these kind of like difficult [TS]

  sync problems but i don't think that [TS]

  works very well in in an environment [TS]

  where you have like peoples files in [TS]

  folders that have always worked a [TS]

  certain with people are accustomed to [TS]

  the people expect and that people will [TS]

  require for their data to be you know [TS]

  there and reliable and intact and [TS]

  everything like apples approach to just [TS]

  where it's going to go into avoid giving [TS]

  you any kind of controls to manage the [TS]

  actual complexity of this problem i [TS]

  don't think that works for files one of [TS]

  the advancements of cloudkit was that it [TS]

  would delegate to the application to [TS]

  make this decision to say college kid [TS]

  will let you know there's a conflict and [TS]

  you'll get this callback and it's up to [TS]

  you what to do about it and you could [TS]

  decide in your application I'm just [TS]

  gonna keep all three copies your name [TS]

  with parentheses write this the [TS]

  situation with the iCloud Drive or [TS]

  whatever the sinking of the desktop [TS]

  stuff is like that's more of a policy [TS]

  decision saying what should we do when [TS]

  we uncheck that box I think the right [TS]

  decision and check that box is just [TS]

  leave everything exactly the way it is [TS]

  on desk and not mess with it anymore but [TS]

  the decision-making is kind of the same [TS]

  decision they make for contacts or and [TS]

  all the other things you can check and [TS]

  uncheck the iCloud preference pane that [TS]

  they well sometimes they act like [TS]

  they're gonna ask you should we remove [TS]

  the ones or leave them on your Mac they [TS]

  should ask the same thing for the [TS]

  documents again we're going to think [TS]

  maybe this is an intentional feature [TS]

  they just haven't gotten around to that [TS]

  to change that dialog box in that way [TS]

  but it just goes to show that there are [TS]

  lots of things that you can do to [TS]

  confuse and frighten the user and [TS]

  perhaps the worst one is making all [TS]

  their stuff apparently disappear [TS]

  universe all safely preserved both [TS]

  locally in a different folder that they [TS]

  renamed and on the cloud that that [TS]

  moment of trust you know you're losing [TS]

  the users trust is going to make them [TS]

  now i'm going to use that product [TS]

  anymore and drop box with the renaming [TS]

  with the garbage house and everything my [TS]

  experiences that happens to people and [TS]

  they don't even notice until like a [TS]

  month later like what is this [TS]

  whatever is conflicted copy file here I [TS]

  don't quite understand that but the [TS]

  reason they didn't notice is because it [TS]

  didn't actually delete anything and [TS]

  always you know fails in a way that [TS]

  gives you extra data extra garbage files [TS]

  like well I've got the file that [TS]

  expected everything to more than I [TS]

  didn't expect that you've got all three [TS]

  versions of the file and if one of them [TS]

  is named differently and you can't [TS]

  figure it out you go there and you sort [TS]

  by name and you'll find there's a bunch [TS]

  of the file similar you'll find your [TS]

  stuff like it won't as opposed to trying [TS]

  to pick the correct file for you or [TS]

  presenting some dialogue for you to [TS]

  choose how to resolve the conflict when [TS]

  you don't have enough information to do [TS]

  that so dropbox solution is not great [TS]

  for a lot of situations where you don't [TS]

  want to making a bunch of garbage files [TS]

  but it's a good choice for just sort of [TS]

  a generic been full of uh you know [TS]

  folders for files without any specific [TS]

  purpose because it you know that their [TS]

  their strategy is the worst thing we can [TS]

  do is lose someone's data uh it's much [TS]

  better to give them a bunch of garbage [TS]

  files into makes them disappear [TS]

  why do you think that Google Drive and [TS]

  like onedrive and to some degree box [TS]

  haven't tried to be that like everything [TS]

  sink engine that dropbox has seemed to [TS]

  become they are trying that it's a [TS]

  different policies like I think Google [TS]

  Drive is very similar to dropbox i [TS]

  haven't actually used one drive but all [TS]

  of them [TS]

  oh all these products including dropbox [TS]

  now with the project infinite thing are [TS]

  dancing around the other trade off like [TS]

  Dropbox thing of a every single files on [TS]

  your on your mac and we will think it [TS]

  and then i added selective sink many [TS]

  years ago where you can choose which [TS]

  files you want to sync [TS]

  dropbox infinite is all right we'll make [TS]

  it look like the files is my [TS]

  understanding and eventually actually [TS]

  use it will make it look like the files [TS]

  on your Mac but really they will be in [TS]

  the cloud which makes a lot of sensitive [TS]

  in a pervasively network-connected [TS]

  office and let you like pin i'm assuming [TS]

  it will let you pin files to your Mac so [TS]

  they don't go away [TS]

  it's it's so you can have basically more [TS]

  stuff in your dropbox then will fit on [TS]

  your Mac or like selective on-demand [TS]

  selective sinks are like your paging in [TS]

  the files from the cloud onto your mac [TS]

  as you use them and as you don't use [TS]

  them they don't need to be on your Mac [TS]

  or you could say never bring this all on [TS]

  my Mac just sort of impacts it over the [TS]

  network is sort of a blending of NFS [TS]

  mounts and dropbox complete copying of [TS]

  files and all the stuff and it does that [TS]

  with a kernel extensions a whole article [TS]

  about it on dropbox think it's it's very [TS]

  interesting but it's a very different [TS]

  trade off the dropbox makes and it's [TS]

  much more dangerous because they messed [TS]

  anything up there [TS]

  bad things can happen like the the [TS]

  reassurance of dropbox like i said is [TS]

  that you can quit the dropbox app never [TS]

  launched it again and everything in that [TS]

  dropbox folder is exactly you know what [TS]

  you see is what's there now those files [TS]

  are fake none of them are proxy files [TS]

  that are all there they're all taking up [TS]

  the space on your Mac you don't have to [TS]

  worry wonder which ones are where and [TS]

  you know you can move things in and out [TS]

  of it they're not constrained in any way [TS]

  they don't have weird permissions on [TS]

  them they're just plain old files and [TS]

  project it takes that away in exchange [TS]

  for your not having to deal with [TS]

  selective sink and have you you know [TS]

  fill up your disk because someone in a [TS]

  share folder put a ton of stuff in there [TS]

  and all sorts of other downsides of the [TS]

  traditional dropbox model but it's a [TS]

  much higher degree of difficulty [TS]

  anything a lot of the other vendors went [TS]

  right for the higher degree of [TS]

  difficulty and never sort of started off [TS]

  as simple as Dropbox advantage tropic [TS]

  has had I think is that you know before [TS]

  selective think it was a very simple [TS]

  user model that people could understand [TS]

  didn't have a lot of features was so [TS]

  simple can be implemented by a bunch of [TS]

  python scripts for crying out loud and I [TS]

  think dropbox built a lot of trust and [TS]

  goodwill with that simple model and now [TS]

  they can expand like as expand to select [TS]

  this think that didn't cause people to [TS]

  flee because it was too confusing to [TS]

  just a tweak of the thing they [TS]

  understood will see a project incident [TS]

  as a bridge too far but I think that's [TS]

  the big advantage that dropbox had that [TS]

  I think big companies like Google [TS]

  Microsoft can't help [TS]

  but immediately implement all the [TS]

  complicated features do you plan on [TS]

  trying dropbox infinite I doubt it [TS]

  I mean I'm I'm not dissatisfied with the [TS]

  plane dropbox I have a lot of disk space [TS]

  i do you select this think sometimes to [TS]

  keep things you know from getting too [TS]

  big they do have some shared folders and [TS]

  I really hate dropboxes policy of like [TS]

  shared folders count towards your quota [TS]

  which is ridiculous because you know [TS]

  they're only starting one copy of the [TS]

  stuff server-side probably won't [TS]

  especially since it uses the colonel [TS]

  extension but i will be curious about it [TS]

  so I don't rule it out [TS]

  yeah i don't i don't actually plan to [TS]

  try it honestly I mean maybe if you know [TS]

  on a laptop i might try it on my main [TS]

  computer i definitely would rather just [TS]

  buy more hard drive space and just suck [TS]

  it up then then run those risks and [TS]

  everything but on a laptop maybe yeah i [TS]

  don't i don't have that much stuff in my [TS]

  dropbox well I have nine gigs available [TS]

  of which I've used a little over half of [TS]

  it so there's something there's what [TS]

  four gigs little more maybe even five [TS]

  gigs in there but it's not that much and [TS]

  even the smallest laptop can grab all of [TS]

  that i'm still on a free dropbox plan i [TS]

  haven't had a need to pay for and i'm [TS]

  not opposed to paying for it i just had [TS]

  the need to pay for it so i actually [TS]

  just started paying for at WTC this year [TS]

  like that's like finally what [TS]

  so what put you over the edge I wanted [TS]

  an easy way to quickly have a backup of [TS]

  the podcast files that we had recorded [TS]

  there and it was just easier than [TS]

  setting up something else at that moment [TS]

  in the in the very brief time but I was [TS]

  sitting in the Fast Ethernet area of [TS]

  moscone well enough and i thought you [TS]

  know what I i kept hitting it because i [TS]

  only had like the regular 2gig limit [TS]

  plus like a couple hundred max woman but [TS]

  I would I kept I kept running into that [TS]

  all the time with just like transferring [TS]

  podcast files back and forth like you [TS]

  know this is video it's about time [TS]

  let me let me actually finally pay for [TS]

  this product that i've been using and [TS]

  running the business on for literally [TS]

  years [TS]

  yeah makes sense and i also kinda like [TS]

  that [TS]

  the synology has a lot of a cloud sync [TS]

  or something like that which puts a copy [TS]

  of dropbox on this technology just meet [TS]

  as another backup [TS]

  oh I don't know that yeah i think it's [TS]

  called cloud sync there's one of the [TS]

  apps that you can install i'll have to [TS]

  get it get you the name after the show [TS]

  one of the apps you can install [TS]

  basically acts as another dropbox client [TS]

  and so if you wanted to you could have [TS]

  an additional backup of your dropbox [TS]

  sitting on your Synology our second part [TS]

  to this week is zero go to erode [TS]

  comments ter / ATP now imagine if [TS]

  your electricity didn't reach certain [TS]

  parts of the house or intermittent in [TS]

  certain parts of the house that would be [TS]

  ridiculous right but this is the status [TS]

  quo for Wi-Fi with dead zones and [TS]

  buffering effect in far too many of us 0 [TS]

  is designed to change all of this year [TS]

  manufacturers a single device it's a [TS]

  small elegant box of it that the size of [TS]

  an apple TV and it's a Wi-Fi router and [TS]

  the idea is with the help of their dead [TS]

  simple app you put multiple ero devices [TS]

  in your home [TS]

  the first one replaces your router [TS]

  access the regular router you plug in [TS]

  ethernet to it and for your internet [TS]

  connection and you plug into your cable [TS]

  modem or DSL modem and that's it and [TS]

  then you can plug in any number of [TS]

  additional eros just a regular outlets [TS]

  you don't have to wire them to your [TS]

  connection you plug into electric outlet [TS]

  and then they all connect wirelessly to [TS]

  each other and form a mesh network that [TS]

  blankets your home in fast reliable [TS]

  Wi-Fi now the single router model just [TS]

  doesn't work we all notice we've all [TS]

  tried single routers especially many of [TS]

  them that advertised long range or how [TS]

  are covered in a bunch of the antennas [TS]

  and they always say that they're going [TS]

  to cover your whole house and they never [TS]

  did was always low reception zones or [TS]

  slow zones or dead zones always what you [TS]

  need is a distributed system with [TS]

  multiple access points that's 10 gives [TS]

  you it is really fast easy to set up [TS]

  super easy to use the devices is the [TS]

  actual the actually routers are nice and [TS]

  small you don't the wire anything except [TS]

  the very first one to your actual [TS]

  internet connection and they have [TS]

  incredible support if you needed of [TS]

  course it's all encrypted it's all fast [TS]

  it is really a great solution to this [TS]

  problem they recommend 10 for every [TS]

  roughly thousand square feet so typical [TS]

  us home is probably gonna have [TS]

  two or three of them a three-pack of the [TS]

  great starting point check it out today [TS]

  go to 0 comments de ro dot-com / ATP if [TS]

  you enter code ATP you will get free [TS]

  overnight shipping once again [TS] ero calm / ATP and use [TS]

  overnight shipping for free with code [TS]

  ATP thanks a lot to ear / sponsoring our [TS]

  show once again apparently hackintosh [TS]

  'as are still a thing and micron doll [TS]

  just built one and that's about the [TS]

  extent of my knowledge on this on this [TS]

  scenario so John tell us about this [TS]

  yeah don't call it a comeback people are [TS]

  always it came up again because someone [TS]

  didn't have a blog post about it and it [TS]

  as we've been talking about for weeks on [TS]

  the show about how it's basically the [TS]

  wrong time to buy any Mac because [TS]

  they're all locally out of date with the [TS]

  exception of the 5k imac maybe and I [TS]

  guess the little macbook I suppose [TS]

  because that's fairly up-to-date but [TS]

  everything else is just as incredibly [TS]

  old hardware there's been lots of snarky [TS]

  tweets about involvement think someone [TS]

  Marco retweeted somebody saying I used [TS]

  to be that you made a hackintosh to get [TS]

  yourself a cheap mcintosh now you do a [TS]

  hackintosh just so you can run mac OS on [TS]

  hardware that is not insanely outdated [TS]

  like it's not it's not it's not a [TS]

  money-saving move and it's not even like [TS]

  I want to build this amazing beast of a [TS]

  box type of move [TS]

  it's more like I just want to run my [TS]

  preferred operating system on hardware [TS]

  that was made in the past year or two [TS]

  and so that's apple's fault for letting [TS]

  that stuff go by but every time someone [TS]

  builds hackintosh people are amazed that [TS]

  you can essentially build a pc which is [TS]

  what you know [TS]

  marmax are it when you get down to brass [TS]

  tacks in terms of the components for an [TS]

  incredibly small amount of money so this [TS]

  was a 1200 dollar hackintosh it's like [TS]

  Trump's any computer could buy from [TS]

  apple at any price for the most part it [TS]

  particularly galling are things like how [TS]

  cheap the ram can be you know it's not [TS]

  apples to apples i go on the Mac Pro has [TS]

  ECC ram and that's why I cost more money [TS]

  and all these other excuses for why the [TS]

  ram so much more expensive but [TS]

  I will cause we have to be just before [TS]

  the show apple charges thirteen hundred [TS]

  dollars for 64 gigabytes of ddr3 ram for [TS]

  the mac pro you can get 64 gigabytes of [TS]

  ddr4 ram for $275 so that is $275 verses [TS]

  thirteen hundred dollars the same man [TS]

  daram just drop the easy i granted it is [TS]

  DC vs not but that is you know that [TS]

  doesn't fit the price but not that much [TS]

  yeah exactly i mean is it's nonsensical [TS]

  like that the price of the mac pros is [TS]

  crazy pants and well I will say though [TS]

  with with this particular case this [TS]

  particular hackintosh it is not using [TS]

  the xeon it is not using the server [TS]

  chipset is not using ECC ram it is [TS]

  really an imac not a macpro comparison [TS]

  here this and there it is still a good [TS]

  comparison to make [TS]

  however this is not making a very cheap [TS]

  mac pro this is making a very cheap imac [TS]

  but it's way faster than the mac pro [TS]

  though in every measurable way so it [TS]

  doesn't really matter isn't it literally [TS]

  the exact same CPU that sold for in the [TS]

  5k imac probably on the footpath for the [TS]

  5k I guess faster than the mac pro like [TS]

  you know except for in massively [TS]

  parallel things we got a 12-core blah [TS]

  blah blah i mean this is a 1200 other [TS]

  computer like agreed however it is it is [TS]

  an insult to the imac not the mac pro [TS]

  yeah well it's an insult to apples [TS]

  entire line and this particular hang out [TS]

  whatever you can find a million [TS]

  different hackintosh builds you can [TS]

  build a decimal point package you can [TS]

  build it anyway you want [TS]

  and so a lot of people have been asking [TS]

  us whether we would ever do a hackintosh [TS]

  or whether this is something we've [TS]

  considered because we've been [TS]

  complaining so much about the outdated [TS]

  apple hardware and I'll speak for myself [TS]

  and say i look at this and it makes me [TS]

  sad about apples product line but I've [TS]

  never really considered making on myself [TS]

  because I don't want to have to deal [TS]

  with any of this stuff that hackintosh [TS]

  is have to deal with they have to deal [TS]

  with a lot of stuff because apple [TS]

  doesn't make an operating system for [TS]

  just sort of any sort of hardware so [TS]

  they have to carefully match their [TS]

  hardware to what apple provides drivers [TS]

  for to what they can get drivers for and [TS]

  come even harder with the driver signing [TS]

  thing and everything [TS]

  lots of features lots of major features [TS]

  just don't work on the packages they [TS]

  haven't figured out how to convince the [TS]

  operating system there to make hardware [TS]

  that is similar enough to Mac hardware [TS]

  the things work with [TS]

  killer one really stood out to me in [TS]

  this particular case off stories they [TS]

  still haven't gotten my message working [TS]

  and that's not like a minor features and [TS]

  that's a big message my message is a [TS]

  pretty like would you like to use a mac [TS]

  book by the way you can use iMessage and [TS]

  forget about all the modern stuff that [TS]

  requires like a handoff continuity or [TS]

  you know the touch ID sensor that will [TS]

  appear on on macbook someday forget [TS]

  about that stuff because there's no way [TS]

  they're gonna be able to that are going [TS]

  to get a to be able to get a secure [TS]

  Enclave from apple and stickers that are [TS]

  peacing out of stuff to work so the [TS]

  amount of things that just don't work [TS]

  then make your Mac not really a mac is a [TS]

  growing list of things and apple not [TS]

  that they're doing it to stop hacking [TS]

  doctors but Apple keeps adding their [TS]

  that list and I just I don't want to [TS]

  deal with any of that I just wanted to [TS]

  work I don't want to do a point update [TS]

  and have my machine not boot because the [TS]

  video drivers don't work anymore i don't [TS]

  have to worry about any of that stuff I [TS]

  just want a really good big fast and I'm [TS]

  willing to pay much more money for the [TS]

  privilege of someone figuring this all [TS]

  I've had time and making me and this [TS]

  would be a nice piece of hardware that [TS]

  works and is it before i get into like [TS]

  how good these boxes are and how much [TS]

  noise they might make and all the other [TS]

  than the fact that the build-it-yourself [TS]

  and like i would i would sooner but [TS]

  build myself a gaming pc then they would [TS]

  hack and Josh like gaming pc have come [TS]

  really close to building many times in [TS]

  my various states of frustration but [TS]

  hackintosh never for me Casey oh what I [TS]

  build withheld oh but you and you build [TS]

  pcs before right [TS]

  oh yeah oh yeah for a long time and [TS]

  basically up until the time I started [TS]

  using thinkpads exclusively which was [TS]

  right before i started using macbooks [TS]

  exclusively which was before I started [TS]

  using the imac I was always building [TS]

  pc's always always always always and [TS]

  I've first one so far out of the game so [TS]

  to speak like I wouldn't even know where [TS]

  to begin like I understand the [TS]

  components that are necessary for modern [TS]

  personal computer but i don't know what [TS]

  what processors are our popular these [TS]

  days I I don't know what memory is the [TS]

  right memory to choose obviously I could [TS]

  figure this out but I just don't have [TS]

  the patience the time or the energy for [TS]

  this is this is a thing especially a [TS]

  computer where I only buy one wants to [TS]

  be like 40 years i would much rather [TS]

  throw money at the problem and just [TS]

  have apple fix it for me that being said [TS]

  the whole reason we're talking about [TS]

  this is because apples doing a very good [TS]

  job of avoiding taking our money [TS]

  well not us maybe more maybe gianmarco [TS]

  and I necessarily but I mean apples [TS]

  really working hard and not updating [TS]

  things except the macbook adorable and [TS]

  to some degree the imac like you guys [TS]

  said earlier like I just what's the [TS]

  holdup [TS]

  I don't get it yeah i mean there was [TS]

  they were there was a very long span in [TS]

  my in my life where I would gladly have [TS]

  built a hackintosh i was building my own [TS]

  pcs at the time and it's just like [TS]

  building a pc with a little bit more [TS]

  hassle but you know I agree with John [TS]

  said that you know in in the era of you [TS]

  know you have driver signing now you [TS]

  have no possible I message hiccups with [TS]

  certain hackintosh setups and and and [TS]

  handoff and stuff being tricky to get [TS]

  working because the various Wi-Fi chip [TS]

  acts they do it seems like we are we are [TS]

  pretty clearly moving towards a point in [TS]

  probably the near future where [TS]

  hackintosh won't work anymore [TS]

  yeah and or at least at least enough [TS]

  features won't work on them that like [TS]

  the the trade-off between pain and the [TS]

  buttery and whatever you're saving or [TS]

  gaining by having one that might switch [TS]

  the other way because as Apple increases [TS]

  the pain in the buttery and limitations [TS]

  and everything else that eventually like [TS]

  it's not worth it anymore or at least [TS]

  for certain people won't be worth it [TS]

  anymore so I just feel like in my in my [TS]

  current my current set of priorities [TS]

  I'm able to trade money for time to a [TS]

  certain degree and when I was younger [TS]

  like when I was in college and high [TS]

  school building these pcs for myself and [TS]

  my friends like we had nothing but time [TS]

  we had very little money so it made way [TS]

  more sense then to build our own pcs and [TS]

  deal with all the massive amounts of [TS]

  headaches and time sinks and crap that [TS]

  we had to deal with two builder and PCs [TS]

  and keep them running and and keep them [TS]

  stable and keep them upgraded like it [TS]

  was a it was a massive time sink for me [TS]

  and my friends but we did it because [TS]

  again that that time money continuum the [TS]

  the balance was different for us back [TS]

  then now [TS]

  I think all of all of us involved back [TS]

  then would all just by a computer you [TS]

  know from apple and just be done with it [TS]

  and and not have to worry about it [TS]

  because quite frankly we don't have the [TS]

  time to worry about it and we do have a [TS]

  little bit of money to spend on them so [TS]

  we can do that instead so it all depends [TS]

  on like you know whether it's worth it [TS]

  to you and as the environment shifts [TS]

  whether it's worth it will shift to in [TS]

  this case like if Apple really does [TS]

  horribly neglect the mac line for longer [TS]

  for a lot longer then i will probably be [TS]

  tempted just to get more performance you [TS]

  know just like it in this particular [TS]

  case I was disappointed to see that the [TS]

  high-end consumer desktop chips that are [TS]

  beating and their platforms are being [TS]

  used in this particular article that the [TS]

  microparticle it's the exact same shape [TS]

  than it that's available in the 5k imac [TS]

  and in the highest figuration the 4 [TS]

  gigahertz sky like I seven like so it's [TS]

  not this was not a case of doing [TS]

  something that apple won't sell you [TS]

  really this was more of a case of just [TS]

  getting what Apple will sell you but for [TS]

  way less money and that's cool and is a [TS]

  huge market for that I totally [TS]

  understand but I don't think the [TS]

  trade-off will be worth it to me and my [TS]

  current state of time versus money what [TS]

  would be worth it possibly in the future [TS]

  is if Apple stop selling the mac pro and [TS]

  for some reason i was ten keep [TS]

  supporting hardware and and then I can [TS]

  like I can get like an 8 or 12 or 16 [TS]

  core high-end xeon workstation running [TS]

  Mac os10 an apple wants anyone that [TS]

  would be very interesting to me but [TS]

  today it's just not i don't know it's it [TS]

  did the balance for me isn't there today [TS]

  yeah I think we're going to get macbook [TS]

  pro another this is unique but I think [TS]

  we're gonna get macbook pro updates [TS]

  before the end of the year and i think [TS]

  there's a decent shot will get a stupid [TS]

  mac pro update before the end of the [TS]

  year I don't think it's dead and he said [TS]

  no fax just a guess I don't think it's [TS]

  dead but I should to go back to [TS]

  hackintosh specifically for a moment I [TS]

  when I was debating very publicly with [TS]

  you Marco whether or not i should get a [TS]

  Mac this is two thousand eight ish i [TS]

  believe and we were having this debate [TS]

  via reblogs of each other's posts on [TS]

  tumblr what I ended up [TS]

  doing was taking my then thinkpad t430 i [TS]

  believe it was and putting a hackintosh [TS]

  version of leopard i believe it was at [TS]

  the time i have that wrong and running [TS]

  it for a few days just to see if I like [TS]

  you know OS 10 and to my recollection [TS]

  Wi-Fi didn't work but onboard ethernet [TS]

  did and just about everything else did [TS]

  too [TS]

  maybe sound didn't actually don't recall [TS]

  but i remember vividly the Wi-Fi didn't [TS]

  work with some major bummer but i really [TS]

  liked it in and it was relatively [TS]

  pain-free to do I think I required as [TS]

  some version of OS 10 that had been [TS]

  prepared for this sort of use and that's [TS]

  what I used to install it and it worked [TS]

  pretty darn well and if it wasn't for [TS]

  that I probably stole about the mac [TS]

  anyway but I felt a lot more confident [TS]

  in doing so but just like you said you [TS]

  hit the nail on the head you know today [TS]

  the three of us can trade money for time [TS]

  if you will and when we were in college [TS]

  and in kids when we were building [TS]

  computers except John we had plenty of [TS]

  time to kill and not a lot of money so [TS]

  it's funny how things change [TS]

  it's not just the time to it's like [TS]

  thinking of your poor haunted imac that [TS]

  could die any second [TS]

  what you're also paying the horror that [TS]

  but also paying for is someone to blame [TS]

  mr. yeah if your computer goes wonky you [TS]

  have someone to blame and that's Apple [TS]

  if your computer continues to be walking [TS]

  continues to behave badly you can keep [TS]

  bringing it back to genius bar [TS]

  eventually replace it with an all new [TS]

  computer if it did you know it not [TS]

  that's a fun thing to do like it's still [TS]

  a pain in the butt but if you build your [TS]

  own hackintosh and it starts being wonky [TS]

  you have no one to go to you so we can [TS]

  go to apple you can't go to the your [TS]

  motherboard manufacturer you can't go to [TS]

  your GPU vendor you can't go to the [TS]

  company that made the case you can't go [TS]

  to the monitor vendor like you just got [TS]

  yourself and so packages I mean they're [TS]

  way cheaper but they're not free [TS]

  so that's you know that's potentially a [TS]

  thousand or more dollars that you spent [TS]

  on something and if it stops working or [TS]

  starts being weird in some way unless it [TS]

  is a hardware fault like oh my GPU died [TS]

  on my cpu died like it just starts being [TS]

  flaky because again it's hackintosh it's [TS]

  running you know an unsupported hardware [TS]

  configuration you're trying to [TS]

  activate the work and by the way it's [TS]

  not like I message isn't working at all [TS]

  there are these strange incantations to [TS]

  try to get it to work by faking it out [TS]

  but it's very sketchy if things start to [TS]

  act weird [TS]

  you've got no one to blame and that's [TS]

  not tenable like maybe maybe if you [TS]

  lived by yourself and you could handle [TS]

  your main computer not working or being [TS]

  flaky some of the time maybe I was like [TS]

  a secondary computer maybe you could [TS]

  handle that but in any sort of family [TS]

  environment where any other person is [TS]

  relying on that computer to be to be a [TS]

  computer to be to be able to sit down in [TS]

  front of it and like do your photos or [TS]

  whatever and and you know like to do [TS]

  stuff on that computer and it doesn't [TS]

  work and you're the one who built this [TS]

  computer and you have no one to blame [TS]

  but it's the best point you will say and [TS]

  i would love to be able to pay to have [TS]

  someone to blame for this other than me [TS]

  because you don't want to look at you [TS]

  and saying that why does this computer [TS]

  that you wasted all this time on not [TS]

  work anymore and you're like it you know [TS]

  or why does it do this weird thing or [TS]

  whatever so the odd i think of that just [TS]

  as much as like the time i would spend [TS]

  tinkering I think of being at your [TS]

  having a single company who stands [TS]

  behind the supposed functionality of the [TS]

  entire thing and I mean the entire thing [TS]

  like if if something you know if [TS]

  something is wonky about like a Wi-Fi [TS]

  works intermittently or whatever I don't [TS]

  have to prove that like the Wi-Fi you [TS]

  know chipset or whatever it is bad and I [TS]

  go that manufacturing get them to return [TS]

  replace it and plug it in and realize [TS]

  that the conflict between like the [TS]

  motherboard and this other you know like [TS]

  I don't deal with anything i just have [TS]

  to deal with a hassle it's still a [TS]

  hassle go to the apple store especially [TS]

  if you're logging a big computer with [TS]

  you still have probably go back three [TS]

  times but eventually you'll get some [TS]

  kind of satisfaction right if you built [TS]

  yourself at a certain point you're just [TS]

  like sell the parts off individually and [TS]

  try again it's it's really grim yeah i [TS]

  mean i've i've been like as I i built a [TS]

  good number of computers for myself and [TS]

  my friends throughout high school and [TS]

  college and I've been in that position [TS]

  of like something doesn't work [TS]

  especially if it's not even my computer [TS]

  usually wasn't something doesn't work on [TS]

  one of my friends computers or worse on [TS]

  a computer that somebody paid me a [TS]

  little bit of money to build for them [TS]

  and and like there's just it's just an [TS]

  endless sinkhole of [TS]

  time and possibly my own money trying to [TS]

  you know resolve this problem and [TS]

  meanwhile dealing with a very upset [TS]

  person who is very annoyed that this [TS]

  computer that they paid a good amount of [TS]

  money to even though i didn't get most [TS]

  of it but they paid good money for the [TS]

  parts and everything and I told them I [TS]

  could do it and then something goes [TS]

  wrong and i'm on the look for it sucks [TS]

  and I gladly would have paid to have [TS]

  like somebody else deal with it but at [TS]

  the time I didn't have a lot of money [TS]

  that was the whole reason I was doing [TS]

  this and there was nobody even could [TS]

  have paid to help out and it was [TS]

  horrible [TS]

  on the flip side of this mike Randall [TS]

  technology ride the biggest feature for [TS]

  me is not the fact that it's always [TS]

  cheaper imac is that he could pick any [TS]

  GPU he wanted to put in there any person [TS]

  or one that you put in a better one than [TS]

  the imac and he could put an even better [TS]

  when they're in fact he can change his [TS]

  mind two years later getting even better [TS]

  GPU and that's an option apple doesn't [TS]

  give you at all apple will give you that [TS]

  cpu they will not give you the scoop you [TS]

  or the option to put in a better one [TS]

  sounds impressive but i agree that [TS]

  without I message on this mac no thanks [TS]

  hard pass late it's it's it's this [TS]

  balance right like and I think what [TS]

  we're all saying is like we all would [TS]

  have reasons why we might want to build [TS]

  one of these things if things got worse [TS]

  as the conditions change like we might [TS]

  build a hackintosh is in three years or [TS]

  something who knows like we have no idea [TS]

  what you know what what what will hold [TS]

  but like if if your priorities are just [TS]

  very slightly different or if your needs [TS]

  are just very slightly different from us [TS]

  you could very easily fall into the [TS]

  other side of that balance and this [TS]

  could make total sense for you [TS]

  yeah yeah this list of things that don't [TS]

  work like airdrop i use a lot and I [TS]

  think I'm the airdrop unicorn because it [TS]

  always works for me i understand i have [TS]

  very good luck with a drop as well [TS]

  yeah all his audio doesn't work the [TS]

  first time you like you mentioned before [TS]

  Casey I think everything working [TS]

  installed at Purdue it's over Wi-Fi oh [TS]

  yeah an audio is that what is linux [TS]

  minor features like Wi-Fi and audio to [TS]

  work brother is true [TS]

  like what you doesn't work you have an [TS]

  uncle computers like saying my TV's [TS]

  greatest there's no sound this it's so [TS]

  true [TS]

  ideally had forgotten that audio maybe [TS]

  didn't work but [TS]

  yeah i'm looking at this list the audio [TS]

  doesn't work community in hand off to a [TS]

  continuity and handoff don't work those [TS]

  I don't use that much I message was [TS]

  working out Eric doesn't work them out [TS]

  again [TS]

  well i was already out with audio come [TS]

  to think of it but it and touch ID [TS]

  doesn't work like that's going to be [TS]

  like it [TS]

  apple just keeps accumulating these [TS]

  things I think once people get used to [TS]

  unlocking their laptop with touch ID a [TS]

  hackintosh is good it's like it's like [TS]

  having a hacked up with no Wi-Fi you [TS]

  know before Wi-Fi was a big deal just [TS]

  added on toilet seed imax RI books [TS]

  rather it's like well you know Wi-Fi [TS]

  doesn't work but who uses that a certain [TS]

  point like Wi-Fi doesn't work [TS]

  this is junk throw it away like I can't [TS]

  use a laptop without Wi-Fi is pointless [TS]

  right i touch ID and features like that [TS]

  will probably eventually feel like that [TS]

  like I'm not gonna type in my password [TS]

  every time i lock my computer that's [TS]

  barbaric and so and you can be pretty [TS]

  sure that it's going to be very [TS]

  difficult to simulate the secure Enclave [TS]

  touch ID hardware whatever that Apple [TS]

  adds their laptops even if you can [TS]

  somehow source that part from the far [TS]

  east and get installed in your [TS]

  hackintosh that's that's a hell of a [TS]

  challenge we are sponsored by wonder [TS]

  capital the w UND ER capital you've [TS]

  probably seen the explosive growth and [TS]

  residential solar panel installations [TS]

  now small and medium-sized businesses [TS]

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  your investment goes directly to helping [TS]

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  a return of eleven percent per year [TS]

  during a two-year period both funds our [TS]

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  future returns learn more about wonder [TS]

  capital at wonder capital com / ATP [TS]

  that's w u nder capital com / ATP wonder [TS]

  capital do well and do good [TS]

  speaking of hacking dashes of I was [TS]

  recalling from the olden days when you [TS]

  two probably weren't born yet one of the [TS]

  original macintosh type things like in [TS]

  the early days of the matter is very [TS]

  difficult to clone at least mr. because [TS]

  you needed the mac rom was a lot of most [TS]

  of the mac toolbox was on on the ROM [TS]

  chip and that was proprietary apple you [TS]

  couldn't really buy that part and so [TS]

  it's very difficult to have any sort of [TS]

  legitimate commercial business selling [TS]

  that clones because you couldn't have a [TS]

  Mac without that rom and then on top of [TS]

  that all the other problems but there [TS]

  was one company that used to advertise [TS]

  in magazines like a legitimate company i [TS]

  think they were in Australia may be [TS]

  called outbound of trying to google for [TS]

  a while you're going to last add home [TS]

  and my recollection is they were [TS]

  basically get around the cloning by [TS]

  buying actual real apple stuff or [TS]

  requiring you to buy them or whatever [TS]

  and repackaging it so they would take [TS]

  like a mac plus mother border maxi [TS]

  motherboard and put it into kind of a [TS]

  laptop shape with the big battery and [TS]

  everything so they were very very [TS]

  expensive you weren't saving any money [TS]

  but you could buy a basically real [TS]

  mcintosh as far as the operating system [TS]

  was concerned in a case [TS]

  not made by apple simply by adding a [TS]

  tremendous amount of costs almost [TS]

  sounded like when you buy like a tuner [TS]

  car were you like just buy basic mustang [TS]

  and then add a hundred thousand dollars [TS]

  right just go ahead and start with the [TS]

  Mustang as delivered to you by Ford and [TS]

  then you just have lots of money so you [TS]

  start with a mac seƱor Mac plus and [TS]

  then they just take out the inside three [TS]

  packages and different things and sell [TS]

  you the new thing and then had money on [TS]

  top of that kind of like the the modbook [TS]

  people from a few years back right yeah [TS]

  similar to that but like you know going [TS]

  from a desktop computer to a laptop is [TS]

  quite a transition and they have the [TS]

  really reporting device that look like I [TS]

  don't have you guys ever saw this i [TS]

  don't think it ever caught on because [TS]

  it's pretty terrible it if you can [TS]

  imagine your spacebar replaced by a [TS]

  pencil like you know the pencil [TS]

  horizontal pencil and let you put put [TS]

  your thumb on the pencil and it as you [TS]

  roll the pencil you know just rolling it [TS]

  that makes your cursor go up and down [TS]

  and as you slide your finger left and [TS]

  right on the pencil that makes the [TS]

  cursor left and right when i was called [TS]

  ok it was not a good pointing device but [TS]

  it was it was interesting that like [TS]

  before trackpads they wanted to have a [TS]

  pointing device that didn't take up a [TS]

  lot of room so they don't have an oven [TS]

  at this point of things predates the [TS]

  oven and they don't have a trackpad it [TS]

  wasn't move that anyway so they had [TS]

  below the spacebar this whatever this [TS]

  was like what is it called iso point [TS]

  trackbar they're going to google say the [TS]

  other one was called isopods anyway it [TS]

  didn't catch on for a reason but uh [TS]

  there's a long history of people trying [TS]

  to essentially have a mac but not have a [TS]

  mac and i think everything has been [TS]

  tried including actual legitimate [TS]

  cloning which hopefully you guys do you [TS]

  don't remember or blocked out of your [TS]

  mind and that was before time as Mac [TS]

  users but I mean like all these things [TS]

  like these make sense you know like that [TS]

  crazy company was around when there [TS]

  wasn't a mac laptop the people who made [TS]

  modbook and everything that was before [TS]

  the ipad and there was no like there was [TS]

  no like Max antique basically is what [TS]

  they were trying to make land and I [TS]

  don't know if they still make them [TS]

  anyway and and hackintosh azhar around [TS]

  because there's no what everyone calls [TS]

  the x mac which is like there's [TS]

  basically no like cheap desktop tower [TS]

  mac that just expandable with regular [TS]

  slots like the mac pro used to kind of [TS]

  almost be that except it wasn't cheap [TS]

  and now we don't even have that anymore [TS]

  so you know the end so hackintosh 'as [TS]

  and all these things they serve needs [TS]

  that Apple refuses to serve [TS]

  for whatever reason whether they're not [TS]

  profitable or they're just to specialize [TS]

  in the number of people buy them or [TS]

  where they don't fit into johnny is [TS]

  Magic white room because they have too [TS]

  many ports and they have their to [TS]

  expandable and you know that they're [TS]

  useful i don't know but Apple refused to [TS]

  serve these markets you know if they're [TS]

  gonna get served somehow either going to [TS]

  get served by crappy pcs with other [TS]

  stuff or they're gonna get served with [TS]

  illegal pirated copies of OS 10 i'm not [TS]

  really sure which is worse for Apple but [TS]

  i'm guessing keeping people in the apple [TS]

  ecosystem even illegally is probably [TS]

  better for Apple long-term that's [TS]

  interesting point [TS]

  alright this is all going to resolve [TS]

  this fall when they release all the new [TS]

  hardware and and everyone will be happy [TS]

  except youtube and mac many owners will [TS]

  also be said yeah I mean it you know we [TS]

  we at least talk from this position of [TS]

  privilege that like Apple at least [TS]

  occasionally mentions our computers but [TS]

  many people who say they're in a bad [TS]

  spot [TS]

  Mac many people like you know we're [TS]

  complaining like all our computers [TS]

  haven't got updated in like two or three [TS]

  years [TS]

  Mac many people that's always their [TS]

  condition like that since the beginning [TS]

  of the mac mini it like the way they [TS]

  treat the mac mini is just insulting he [TS]

  quickly it's insulting and the last time [TS]

  the updated it took away all the best [TS]

  options and all the expandability and [TS]

  you know it's like that [TS]

  oh we have easy compared to Mac many [TS]

  people I saw someone to work the other [TS]

  day considering like ideally like I'm [TS]

  gonna get a new mac and can't really [TS]

  decide between five ham mac and mac mini [TS]

  and it dawned on me that for you know [TS]

  once again don t have to have to be [TS]

  started that regular people don't keep [TS]

  track of what the hell's inside all the [TS]

  different max as far as they're [TS]

  concerned it's like going your cargo [TS]

  ship will you know we make an SUV we [TS]

  make a couplie make a sedan and you [TS]

  don't you don't go to think like wait [TS]

  does the sedan have like a steam powered [TS]

  engine in it and the cool stuff has an [TS]

  internal combustion engine and i'm not [TS]

  aware of that like as far as user well [TS]

  it was really just like I you know you [TS]

  don't wanna buy an all-in-one computer [TS]

  and have the big expensive screen [TS]

  trapped inside of there was all the [TS]

  general reasons like but what you don't [TS]

  understand is the 5ki Mac has a sky like [TS]

  CPU and the mac mini has like a core two [TS]

  duo or the hell that thing now like [TS]

  you're you know it look on the outside [TS]

  it looks like you just you know trading [TS]

  off like form factor and price and [TS]

  everything but really you should not [TS]

  and I met many like ever just think when [TS]

  it was new you shoulda bought it and now [TS]

  you definitely shouldn't buy it and I [TS]

  don't think apple sales people are going [TS]

  to emphasize that in the store although [TS]

  it may be confused about what you want [TS]

  to Mac what are you sure you don't want [TS]

  to fuck what are you saying many yet you [TS]

  have to call someone from the back do we [TS]

  have something called a mac mini hahaha [TS]

  i mean always the macro like it's [TS]

  probably next to the big TV and they [TS]

  might have seen it all you mean that [TS]

  that's a computer all right but anyway [TS]

  how yeah it's that that's the worst part [TS]

  of this is that regular people shouldn't [TS]

  have to care about this challenge at a [TS]

  reasonable expectation they can go into [TS]

  an apple store and sort of picking [TS]

  computer based on how big they wanted to [TS]

  be how much they wanted to cost and has [TS]

  a basic understanding of like well the [TS]

  more expensive ones are better and [TS]

  faster and fancier than less expensive [TS]

  ones but not to have this massive golf [TS]

  where it's like I think i'm deciding [TS]

  between do I want to have an integrated [TS]

  screen and external screen is like know [TS]

  there are tremendous trade-offs between [TS]

  the 5ki mac mini did you really need to [TS]

  grass before you make this decision it's [TS]

  not as if they were just equivalent but [TS]

  just that the boxes are separate or [TS]

  together and that's apple's fault [TS]

  yeah I mean you know you can you can [TS]

  kind of see like throughout the course [TS]

  of apples history especially recent [TS]

  history there are certain products that [TS]

  they keep around like out of spite or I [TS]

  don't know it's like certain products [TS]

  that they not know maybe five maybe [TS]

  that's the wrong word but like certain [TS]

  products where like they kind of [TS]

  begrudgingly keep them around and you [TS]

  can tell they really don't like them and [TS]

  it's almost like this it is tense [TS]

  relationship they seem to have these [TS]

  products are just like disdain and they [TS]

  just kind of you know crap update every [TS]

  so often because they have to and you [TS]

  know it's the same way that like like [TS]

  this you know Steve Jobs famously [TS]

  demoing the motorola rokr phone and you [TS]

  could tell he just like hated this [TS]

  device and he was trying to put on a [TS]

  good face on stage and he just hated it [TS]

  to me that is how apple treats the heck [TS]

  Mickey and possibly maybe even the mac [TS]

  pro these days I don't know what time [TS]

  will tell on that one but the mac mini [TS]

  certainly that is how to treat for a [TS]

  long time where we're like they keep it [TS]

  updated because for whatever strategic [TS]

  reason or whatever like they they kind [TS]

  of have to keep offering this computer [TS]

  to solve a bunch of needs [TS]

  I guess but they they hate it so much [TS]

  and they never leave [TS]

  forget they hated every update they like [TS]

  we're gonna give a little here but then [TS]

  we're going to take away this other [TS]

  thing and we're going to make you hate [TS]

  this until you all you fools all stop [TS]

  buying it and you switch to one of our [TS]

  better computers that is honestly feel [TS]

  like it but the mac mini and I own one [TS]

  and even when i bought it i was mad [TS]

  about it and I still bought extended one [TS]

  but like I i was present on the kindest [TS]

  thing such a ripoff and so restricted [TS]

  and so it's like it's just all right so [TS]

  I I felt all that anger that Apple [TS]

  clearly has for this product that they [TS]

  hate and they occasionally cell i wonder [TS]

  what the pressures are on the mac mini [TS]

  design like is it like that every year [TS]

  the margins have to get better because [TS]

  that like that fits the the data we have [TS]

  kind of like that it does get more [TS]

  expensive and crappier like relatively [TS]

  speaking obviously it's better when you [TS]

  know what with the exception of this [TS]

  recent quad to dual core transition for [TS]

  the most part does get better but like [TS]

  it seems to me that the margins get [TS]

  better with every new version and it's [TS]

  like they kind of given up on [TS]

  hey we need to find a way to boost the [TS]

  sales of the mac mini because the sales [TS]

  are probably extremely low and not [TS]

  really going anywhere but they said but [TS]

  every year we can boost the margins by [TS]

  putting slightly cheaper stuff in it and [TS]

  removing the optical drive and you know [TS]

  doing all the stuff that we can do to [TS]

  you know like every group like you have [TS]

  to measure on something I know Apple [TS]

  famously does has it has just a [TS]

  profit-and-loss line for the entire [TS]

  company and is not measuring every [TS]

  individual department saying well mac [TS]

  mini team what is your profit loss for [TS]

  the year whatever but the products are [TS]

  changed with some kind of purpose and [TS]

  increasing or the very least maintaining [TS]

  margins seems to be a big help incentive [TS]

  in my local they doing with the mac mini [TS]

  one explanation for the evolution of [TS]

  that hardware and that product is there [TS]

  other than pressure to increase or [TS]

  maintain margins with each new revision [TS]

  and not a lot of pressure to do anything [TS]

  with it until it's in desperate need of [TS]

  replacement because it like it has never [TS]

  been a great bargain but I feel like the [TS]

  value proposition has just gotten worse [TS]

  and worse you're getting less for more [TS]

  money [TS]

  yeah and you know like that Marco you [TS]

  you know it if you need a tiny little [TS]

  head this Mac this is your only option [TS]

  and maybe that's just good business [TS]

  maybe Apple knows hey if people need a [TS]

  time we'll have this Mac this is their [TS]

  only option so just act like you know a [TS]

  little tiny bit extra every year can we [TS]

  head you know take out 10 20 bucks for [TS]

  the hardware and add 50 bucks of the [TS]

  price and do that every three years for [TS]

  the next nine years and pretty soon you [TS]

  have an eight-hundred-dollar computer [TS]

  that's as fast as a pocket calculator [TS]

  this and what did you buy your mac mini [TS]

  for its it's my I scuzzy host and it [TS]

  runs back plays to backup my synology [TS]

  and it's currently doing this live [TS]

  stream that's and it doesn't feel like [TS]

  it's also it's kind of where I put like [TS]

  utility software they don't want jumping [TS]

  up my main max so the iscsi driver was [TS]

  one of those things i also use it as the [TS]

  figure 2 scansnap software machine like [TS]

  it runs the scansnap software the skin [TS]

  types of scans to it and then it just [TS]

  six things over right network sharing to [TS]

  my real computer so it's kind of like [TS]

  this utility the setup utility functions [TS]

  it's it's kind of a home server in [TS]

  certain ways but you know not always you [TS]

  know I don't know I i'm always looking [TS]

  for like possible plans of how i can [TS]

  rearrange my home setup so i don't need [TS]

  it anymore but it is a it is still in [TS]

  use the correct answer to my question [TS]

  was a continuous integration server but [TS]

  Who am I kidding [TS]

  I know what that is vaguely is that [TS]

  every session is about the testing bots [TS]

  yes it's one of those things where like [TS]

  when I see the session about the [TS]

  reducing it sounds it looks and sounds [TS]

  really cool but it also looks and sounds [TS]

  like it requires a lot of setup of [TS]

  testing and infrastructure that I don't [TS]

  probably want to set up so someday that [TS]

  will sound really awesome to me someday [TS]

  when I have when I have a staff of [TS]

  responsible programmers working for me [TS]

  they can set that up and i will just [TS]

  enjoy the benefits of it now we're going [TS]

  to start you know start small we're [TS]

  starting unit test we're not going to go [TS]

  already continuous integration server [TS]

  right and for a single person shop you [TS]

  probably don't need that although [TS]

  underscore probably has five of them [TS]

  continually building his software and [TS]

  and running tests against them and he [TS]

  has a little dashboard that sentiment is [TS]

  watch that tells in the state of all [TS]

  applications as of the latest beta the [TS]

  software and now he's really good at [TS]

  using times he probably didn't set that [TS]

  up now we did because now he's [TS]

  applications right themselves I think [TS]

  you're right sup it just you know new [TS]

  basis of the OS come out as little [TS]

  minions automatically downloaded rebuild [TS]

  the software for it to click all the [TS]

  fix-it things and xcode to fix all the [TS]

  problems that [TS]

  and his little dashboard display and [TS]

  watch while he's out for his evening [TS]

  constitutional that tells and how many [TS]

  of his absolute successfully updated for [TS]

  iOS 9 beta 2 and you know one of them [TS]

  has one morning left he's going to go [TS]

  into Dennis computer click one button to [TS]

  fix that one laptop so as I picture his [TS]

  life don't don't tell me there's any [TS]

  different [TS]

  that's accurate I've seen a setup it's [TS]

  accurate alright thanks to our sponsors [TS]

  this week zero wonder capital and trunk [TS]

  club and we will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  was accidental [TS]

  John didn't [TS]

  research Marco in kc wouldn't let down [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find the show know today [TS]

  DP die and if your twitter follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  alright so you tell me about your [TS]

  potential new record John or the [TS]

  family's potentially record anyway I [TS]

  mean it makes sense like mike has two [TS]

  ipads right i think it's 13 [TS]

  that's right so you know you can have [TS]

  two Accords yeah no I don't have any [TS]

  problem with my wife's car is about 10 [TS]

  years old and usually when we start [TS]

  thinking about replacing them and it's [TS]

  pretty beat up and she was thinking [TS]

  about what kind of car should you get [TS]

  and she faces the same problems that [TS]

  kind of you were talking about Casey she [TS]

  doesn't want automatic transmission her [TS]

  options are really limited we also don't [TS]

  want to spend a tremendous amount of [TS]

  money for the car for a variety of [TS]

  reasons I mean we know what just look at [TS]

  her old car and just think of your gonna [TS]

  buy 60,000 the car and it's kind of like [TS]

  that 10 years you're going to be said [TS]

  so we did you know needs to be reliable [TS]

  big be able to fit four people in and [TS]

  all of our stuff all that you know and [TS]

  we basically end up back in the same [TS]

  place we always end up with like the [TS]

  mazda 6 100 cord there's the those are [TS]

  the reasonably priced price reliable [TS]

  four-door sporty sedans you can get with [TS]

  a stick shift and she resisted that for [TS]

  awhile started coming around a little [TS]

  bit when she was looking at the new [TS]

  record start doing like the little [TS]

  builder thingy to build your own car and [TS]

  I think what's pushing her over the edge [TS]

  is the fact that they have once again [TS]

  the same thing that they had when she [TS]

  got her current car her current car she [TS]

  had a I with molly was wrong because i [TS]

  messing with the counter years but two [TS]

  thousand three or four ish Accord they [TS]

  got totaled and with the we gotta you [TS]

  know pretty good amount of money back [TS]

  from that was basically with the money [TS]

  from that car being total plus a little [TS]

  bit extra [TS]

  we bought a two thousand six ish cord [TS]

  and at that point it was the end of the [TS]

  generation like the end of that you know [TS]

  that before they replaced it with the [TS]

  super ugly one that I never bought never [TS]

  considered buying it was terrible [TS]

  that was at yeah that was like the worst [TS]

  record in a long time anyway it was the [TS]

  end of the generation and I guess they [TS]

  do this regularly i don't know this i've [TS]

  only been buying chords for you know ten [TS]

  years or so I don't know they make a [TS]

  special edition right at the end of the [TS]

  product lines that for 2017 the honda [TS]

  accord sport comes in a special edition [TS]

  which is just the honda accord sport [TS]

  which probably the sport is you get this [TS]

  work because as section if you can get [TS]

  this picture from the [TS]

  relax but the sport has like nicer [TS]

  wheels and stuff but any of the cars [TS]

  with the 650 you can't get a lot of the [TS]

  nice options so a lot of the fancy stuff [TS]

  that's in the v6 or in the high-end ones [TS]

  you just can't get with a stick shift [TS]

  with just shame so we're kind of like [TS]

  limiting ourselves but the sports [TS]

  special edition is still limited like [TS]

  the sport but has a few extra nicety so [TS]

  it comes with leather seats and heat [TS]

  seat heaters which has one for a long [TS]

  time and we haven't been able to get [TS]

  because for the most part 4 stick shift [TS]

  sedans do not come with leather seats or [TS]

  Cedars mr. BMWs like you know cheap car [TS]

  so finally here is a car down in our [TS]

  price range with these fancy options in [TS]

  it and it comes with a nice fancy wheels [TS]

  and all the little body treatments and [TS]

  all the other stuff that you want your [TS]

  accord sport to come with and [TS]

  contrasting red stitching and a little [TS]

  ball shifter thing and all sorts of a [TS]

  nice thing they're still doesn't come [TS]

  with navigation you think you still [TS]

  can't get that and the second thing that [TS]

  I think is attracting her to it is for [TS]

  the most part the accord sport comes in [TS]

  super boring colors you can get black [TS]

  white and gray [TS]

  I think the only option i love my car [TS]

  that's it you know [TS]

  honda is not particularly magnanimous [TS]

  with the color choices that's literally [TS]

  i'm looking at red right here the sport [TS]

  special edition right well so now red is [TS]

  an option but I 16 2016 right as an [TS]

  option and in the 2017 special edition [TS]

  so she wants to get a red honda accord [TS]

  sport special edition 2017 model is we [TS]

  also regressive I'm i like them but [TS]

  they're aggressive [TS]

  I know you have there anyway so this is [TS]

  probably the car she's going to get and [TS]

  I think what is making your go over is [TS]

  the seat heaters and the leather which I [TS]

  don't think she's gonna be that big of a [TS]

  fan of whether I like closets personally [TS]

  but seat heaters [TS]

  I think she will enjoy a lot and the [TS]

  fact that she's going to get in red so [TS]

  she's got she's meant by the Marco red [TS]

  bug she's at that stage in life where [TS]

  she wants to have a red card i would [TS]

  never buy sky bison black immediately [TS]

  and but she can't tolerate having two [TS]

  black accord you know I could even [TS]

  though they would look as different as [TS]

  two of my children to me to say [TS]

  yeah like that time in 2014 they're [TS]

  totally different the wheels alone how [TS]

  can you not like what I'd ever [TS]

  mistakenly get on the wrong [TS]

  I would never happen but she cannot have [TS]

  two black or just find her car she can [TS]

  pick whatever color she wants and really [TS]

  her only options are white black grey [TS]

  and red now they were black and reds are [TS]

  gonna be getting yeah yeah I don't mind [TS]

  that like the silver the the greys [TS]

  really dark but the silver I think court [TS]

  does look good and silver but silver is [TS]

  not an option for this so will this be [TS]

  better than your car [TS]

  yeah i mean like it obviously you see [TS]

  there is going to make it better and [TS]

  leather technically is better but like i [TS]

  said i think i like cloth better you [TS]

  look at me like that in your car and [TS]

  almost every way [TS]

  yeah and how do you see on that it's the [TS]

  same engine transmission and like that I [TS]

  don't think led the leather seats are [TS]

  actually an improvement especially you [TS]

  know I i know the heaters are going to [TS]

  make them more up in the wintertime but [TS]

  it is cold initially I see what the [TS]

  seats warm up before you get into the [TS]

  car and I don't really like sitting on [TS]

  leather at rather sit on cloth but [TS]

  everything else about it's not faster [TS]

  doesn't have more powerful engine I'm [TS]

  kind of jealous of her wheels because [TS]

  like Casey said they are more aggressive [TS]

  and i feel like i should have been more [TS]

  aggressive wheels but it'll be fine like [TS]

  I'm I'm happy for her to have this car [TS]

  if she likes it then that's all I care [TS]

  about [TS]

  I will continue to try to defend my car [TS]

  even as my children scrape their [TS]

  bicycles against the side of it why not [TS]

  a why not resume she wasn't interested [TS]

  in that and honestly I am still a little [TS]

  bit wary of mazda reliability there's [TS]

  such a small company compared to all [TS]

  parents car so far has been inside now I [TS]

  know they're good i could we we had a [TS]

  mazda when I was a kid there fairly [TS]

  reliable but I'm [TS]

  you know that I'm little bit wary of [TS]

  that I would still go with it that's [TS]

  what she wanted i think this Accord [TS]

  looks better than the six and honestly [TS]

  we've just always been a honda family it [TS]

  seems silly to break the streak this [TS]

  point and the other practical concern [TS]

  that's a good reason to come to pick our [TS]

  brand [TS]

  well it's silly to pick a different [TS]

  woman yeah i'll be out the I mean we've [TS]

  been satisfied with him like we you know [TS]

  it's like you stick with liking the [TS]

  restaurant that you know you like rather [TS]

  than trying a different one [TS]

  I'm and the more practical reason is we [TS]

  like to cross the dealer which whatever [TS]

  it may be silly but again it's a [TS]

  exchanging money for peace of mind or [TS]

  someone to blame or whatever and it's a [TS]

  lot easier to get 200 dealerships from [TS]

  our allison is Tomas dealerships that's [TS]

  very clever works i was gonna ask you [TS]

  something [TS]

  shoot oh it's somebody pointed out the [TS]

  chat same thing i was thinking you know [TS]

  I have no issue quite obviously with her [TS]

  getting a six-speed but if she had [TS]

  gotten an automatic i think that would [TS]

  let her get a remote start and in the [TS]

  barbaric conditions in which you live [TS]

  that would probably be really nice [TS]

  unless you would forgo the garage and [TS]

  give her the garage spot i saw the [TS]

  remote start as an option in the little [TS]

  car builder thing i didn't realize that [TS]

  probably have to be associated with the [TS]

  automatic but it's not actually [TS]

  automatic CVT is the other option that's [TS]

  the record is so like that those are [TS]

  your options and honor these dayz you [TS]

  understand what I'm being chased down [TS]

  into this one little corner of our [TS]

  harness car lineup and eventually like [TS]

  Casey you know i'll be in a situation [TS]

  where this goes away but in the meantime [TS]

  I'm gonna be buying these i really like [TS]

  my car and it's it's probably the best [TS]

  car i've owned possible exception of the [TS]

  1992 civic which i really like but was a [TS]

  death trap but yeah you keep sticking [TS]

  with hot let me know how it works yet [TS]

  minor issue [TS]

  yeah there they are good cars and this [TS]

  doesn't happen every car is a deathtrap [TS]

  1982 come on like it was a tiny little [TS]

  again because we didn't have the [TS]

  technology to do this [TS]

  yeah but the court is this generation [TS]

  Accord is a greater I don't know what [TS]

  the next generation will be like of [TS]

  course you're thinking of getting a cord [TS]

  and this is the last model year and [TS]

  they're going to switch it over in 2018 [TS]

  get this car get 2016 2017 the whole the [TS]

  whole model line is just great looking [TS]

  I'm building my own 2017 accord today [TS]

  and sports special edition 6-speed [TS]

  manual that that's the entire model [TS]

  anyway I you're right the exterior [TS]

  colors black steel which is gray samurai [TS]

  in our red or white white orchid [TS]

  pro-white are your options your interior [TS]

  color your choices are as follows [TS]

  black whether you have three choices [TS]

  wheels and a bunch of really crappy [TS]

  exterior accessories a handful of [TS]

  equally crappy interior accessories and [TS]

  then electronic wait a second [TS]

  the most i said i'm trying started on [TS]

  there but I think you're right how can [TS]

  that be associated with the manual how [TS]

  does that even work can't be well maybe [TS]

  because neutral yeah which is not a good [TS]

  idea know how does that that's not your [TS]

  Park are a lot of people do that i agree [TS]

  with you it's barbaric but if you don't [TS]

  do that yet the remote starters your car [TS]

  lurched forward and slammed right wall [TS]

  yes seriously how can that be back [TS]

  that doesn't mean it's probably it's [TS]

  probably just a web site not realizing [TS]

  oh you can you can't have that once you [TS]

  have the CD [TS]

  yeah that's probably and those those [TS]

  stupid plastic accessories that you see [TS]

  the exterior accessories people buy [TS]

  those I see them on the road all the [TS]

  time like a look at the prices and be [TS]

  looking what they look like some of them [TS]

  i think actually do look kind of cool [TS]

  though the bodies that molding looks [TS]

  good but usually people don't buy just [TS]

  one they buy like all of them and just [TS]

  look at the prices look how much money [TS]

  they're paying yeah I don't understand [TS]

  it anyway I bring all this up to say [TS]

  that it is frustrating not only how [TS]

  cheap this car is as compared to the [TS]

  sorts of cars that i am often pricing [TS]

  which again I didn't buy my BMW new for [TS]

  that very reason but there are so few [TS]

  actual options like these are just a sec [TS]

  takuto or whatever [TS]

  these are dealt dealer-installed crap [TS]

  that's right exactly but with BMW think [TS]

  nickel-and-dime you over everything [TS]

  it is absurd how bad the nickel-and-dime [TS]

  over the dumbest crap [TS]

  in fact I don't think you even get [TS]

  leather for free how did just added the [TS]

  formats like a couple years ago I [TS]

  believe like so I hope for the first [TS]

  half of my honda buying yet to buy a [TS]

  pound fifty bucks of formats they [TS]

  finally added that in so that's a nice [TS]

  break from the norm but it's frustrating [TS]

  a few options like this again we would [TS]

  pay for navigation will pay whatever [TS]

  obscene price for navigating goes [TS]

  that's what i want you want even though [TS]

  we all know it's better on the phone and [TS]

  also the stuff she just wants to have a [TS]

  car with navigation to see what to see [TS]

  what it's like [TS]

  oh no have having a built-in is awesome [TS]

  I i will gallery like like you even [TS]

  Tesla's system is is ok but it's not [TS]

  great but I i still use it instead of [TS]

  using my phone because its built-in and [TS]

  having a built-in is awesome [TS]

  yep i completely agree I in my maps or [TS]

  well I actually happen to have a BMW [TS]

  bilby repair bill because that's what [TS]

  BMW do is they generate repair bills i [TS]

  have one in front of me which includes [TS]

  delivery date which was december of 2010 [TS]

  so I have maps from 2010 and every [TS]

  single time i get in the car where I [TS]

  don't when I don't know where I'm going [TS]

  I will spend the time to plug it into [TS]

  the navigation because it is so much [TS]

  more convenient and safe to look at the [TS]

  screen that's designed for that sort of [TS]

  thing than it is to be fumbling with my [TS]

  phone and I could not agree more even an [TS]

  ancient car like mine is becoming i [TS]

  would still rather have the onboard nap [TS]

  so Tina is right to ask for it i [TS]

  completely agree man but again not an [TS]

  option like so many get something [TS]

  because this is basically the bottom of [TS]

  the line on the even though this is the [TS]

  special edition and I wonder what are [TS]

  the special edition things that are like [TS]

  her special edition had the phone carbon [TS]

  fiber trim like that was the special [TS]

  edition her wheels like the things that [TS]

  distinguish her current record as [TS]

  special edition are from the outside is [TS]

  the wheels and if you look inside the [TS]

  fake carbon fiber the replaces like the [TS]

  the trim bit and that's basically it and [TS]

  the people who got such a good deal on [TS]

  her car the people who ordered this car [TS]

  before us and then backed out [TS]

  did at add a couple of external bolt-on [TS]

  dealer accessories that I just had to [TS]

  like stomach you know like that you know [TS]

  you can't really remove them does not [TS]

  like holes in the bodywork where they [TS]

  mount them or whatever so I just accept [TS]

  those I don't really like them i would [TS]

  never bought them myself but this car is [TS]

  so cheap [TS]

  we got such a good deal on this car i [TS]

  assume we're not going to get that great [TS]

  of a deal in 2017 with the other 27 [TS]

  anything i'm looking forward to is [TS]

  supposedly they made their infotainment [TS]

  system software better em and there's a [TS]

  lot of room trying to get better because [TS]

  it is so slow and so clunking so [TS]

  byzantine it took me like six months to [TS]

  learn how to do the most basic things on [TS]

  it still drives me nuts so [TS]

  I'm happy for them to have you know that [TS]

  they advertise it as you know being more [TS]

  responsive like please anything anything [TS]

  any improvement in that area that you [TS]

  can give me I will accept i'm sure they [TS]

  probably also makes all things were so [TS]

  anyway I'm hopeful vaguely helpful as [TS]

  guard but yeah I'm slowly being chased [TS]

  out of the car market by stick shifts [TS]

  disappearing and i'm being chased that [TS]

  honda's by Honda replacing all their [TS]

  transmissions with cbts hopefully by the [TS]

  time I'm really taste adamant all the [TS]

  cds will have morphed into you know [TS]

  automated manual you know dual-clutch [TS]

  transmissions and that maybe i'll be [TS]

  able to tolerate more than the horror [TS]

  that is Syria t now dct is livable like [TS]

  it if if my future or not and I if my [TS]

  future is not an electric car then and [TS]

  it's not a six-speed i will go out of my [TS]

  way to find a true dct because they say [TS]

  it is not the way i would prefer it but [TS]

  it is certainly livable do the does this [TS]

  model year support power play because [TS]

  you get the big screen even if you don't [TS]

  get like a GPS chip so to speak [TS]

  right but it's not touch screen it's [TS]

  just a display screen so car plate no [TS]

  carplay can use wheels and stuff too [TS]

  right right but there's no well there's [TS]

  kind of a wheel it's not if it it's not [TS]

  the like the BMW system where you have a [TS]

  cursor control it's not like that it's [TS]

  more like a series of buttons and [TS]

  sometimes sometimes the wheel scrolls [TS]

  but that's it i'm gonna even like a [TS]

  d-pad kinda think i'm pretty sure [TS]

  carplay work with all sorts of [TS]

  combinations of these control schemes [TS]

  you know intentionally harm does support [TS]

  carplay so maybe it works but really [TS]

  it's not even the d'pad it's not even a [TS]

  five-way thing it is literally a cluster [TS]

  of buttons one called menu one called [TS]

  back and there's a button and there's a [TS]

  wheel the only thing we all those move [TS]

  the selection up and down but mostly [TS]

  hitting menu back and settings to try to [TS]

  navigate and display because some [TS]

  navigation options are not available [TS]

  this particular thing is displayed so it [TS]

  is a terrible interface [TS]

  well when Mark when I and a couple of [TS]

  friends of ours went to cupertino and [TS]

  facebook when we were out in California [TS]

  we rented a mercedes GL 45 which is a [TS]

  truly lovely [TS]

  cv like it's certainly not my kind of [TS]

  car not the sort of thing I would want [TS]

  to drive but darned if it wasn't really [TS]

  nice [TS]

  that being said I I mean I Drive has its [TS]

  problems it's very opinionated and it's [TS]

  it's a little bit weird although i've [TS]

  come to absolutely love it and I drivers [TS]

  BMW system and drives great [TS]

  yeah whatever they call the Mercedes [TS]

  system it is unbelievably bad this was [TS]

  I would assume this was like a 90,000 [TS]

  our truck or something like that [TS]

  whatever was it was expensive maybe [TS]

  90,000 was expensive and it was [TS]

  beautiful in so many ways but this [TS]

  infotainment system was awful just [TS]

  unbelievably bad i'm guessing they [TS]

  probably just didn't give it a name out [TS]

  of mercy that it's called command all [TS]

  caps [TS]

  yeah but they'll name side I just I [TS]

  can't handle it was so unbelievably bad [TS]

  just indescribable a bad yeah there was [TS]

  there was a time I I about a year ago I [TS]

  i rented i was a car rental place for on [TS]

  a trip and I had to rent a four-door [TS]

  sedan and there was a mercedes e [TS]

  something-or-other that was available [TS]

  for a little bit more like okay sure [TS]

  i'll do that and it was a great pleasure [TS]

  to drive that car in many many ways but [TS]

  it had the same system and my god like [TS]

  it it's like using Gauss like it just [TS]

  it's like what year is this and how [TS]

  expensive is this car and you have this [TS]

  system in here like it's it's [TS]

  impressively bad [TS]

  yeah so if you go to automobiles honda [TS]

  com / accord hyphen sedan and if you [TS]

  scroll down [TS]

  how did I get here of course you can't [TS]

  link to anything on the stupid page if [TS]

  you scroll down there's eventually a [TS]

  section where it says cockpit [TS]

  convenience or accessories if you click [TS]

  accessories then there's a button for [TS]

  apple carplay where it says it is [TS]

  standard on EXT XL EXL v6 and touring [TS]

  models which i assume is not the sport [TS]

  model which means no God's it means no [TS]

  stick that we like you can get the the [TS]

  stick in the LX and we looked at that [TS]

  like you can buy a non-sport one and you [TS]

  get a few different options but you get [TS]

  worse looking wheel [TS]

  so for me that's the deal-breaker DX DX [TS]

  Elliot and EXL v6 and touring those are [TS]

  your only options [TS]

  yeah the the LX is the bottom of the [TS]

  bottom of the line they got rid of the [TS]

  excess and kind of clever thing that [TS]

  Honda did in its naming used to use to [TS]

  have a love letter system for like the [TS]

  trim levels right index was always the [TS]

  bottom like are our Civic was the DXY [TS]

  only had one side mirror on it like yeah [TS]

  right [TS]

  I still can't believe that was legal for [TS]

  a long time yeah that's very tiny car I [TS]

  i think they basically retired the DX [TS]

  moniker because it became such a like [TS]

  you know an anti status symbols like oh [TS]

  you got the super cheap one right and so [TS]

  now the bottom is just a lie only do is [TS]

  shift letters like the LX is basically [TS]

  the DX the same thing like you know no [TS]

  body colored side mirror is they don't [TS]

  do one more anymore but it's a really [TS]

  cheap but yeah that the sport is a step [TS]

  up from the LX so you know you can get [TS]

  the LX and the pressures you can get the [TS]

  Alex with a stick and you can get more [TS]

  options a few more options on the Alex [TS]

  even though it is supposedly the lesser [TS]

  model because the sport is like oh you [TS]

  don't want those things you want [TS]

  everything just to be sport is like no [TS]

  will you no I would have taken a seat [TS]

  heaters in my car if they were an option [TS]

  but they weren't an option [TS]