177: Paying for Someone to Blame

0:00:00I'm actually fighting with a fly in my

0:00:01order your market with here the fly

0:00:03later

0:00:04that's right trying to track down and

0:00:07kill this file i'll get it eventually i

0:00:09feel like i have to have to take a break

0:00:10from the show for me 200 down but anyway

0:00:13going to lend you an ipad 2 forgot about

0:00:16that

0:00:17oh god that's old-school good this talk

0:00:20amongst yourselves for a moment I will

0:00:21kill or shoot this fly out of the room

0:00:23needs to be done

0:00:24I'm this slide this fly did not want to

0:00:30leave did not want to die had how'd you

0:00:32convince it did you argue with it until

0:00:34I realized it was wrong I would have

0:00:36killed if I could fuck a lot of stuff

0:00:38going on land

0:00:39I was trying to get it to leave the room

0:00:40so I was turning off the lights in this

0:00:42room and turning on bright lights

0:00:43elsewhere to try to lower it out if you

0:00:46want you can be talking about definitely

0:00:47leave immediately its truth just bore it

0:00:50out of the room

0:00:51no flies love destiny so afraid of the

0:00:55show David nyan wrote in and he has

0:00:58opinions about universal remotes and

0:01:00things of that nature of super duper

0:01:02frame Damien yeah one of our backup

0:01:06application that you should use or

0:01:08equivalent to make multiple backups of

0:01:10your stuff anyway I think he just he's

0:01:11not talking about universal remotes I'm

0:01:12sorry talk about CC yeah it he has a

0:01:16very all have been a proponent of the

0:01:18spend a lot of money to solve your

0:01:20electronics problem solution which is

0:01:24one possible solution i've never been

0:01:27particularly a fan of it because I feel

0:01:29like I'm sure no no matter how not

0:01:31because i don't want to spend a lot of

0:01:32money on things I've ever really

0:01:33expensive TV but I feel like no matter

0:01:35how much money you spend it will still

0:01:38never work right and you'll feel worse

0:01:40if you spend a lot more money but anyway

0:01:42he's happy with his setup he has been

0:01:44awesome stuff and he has a bang and

0:01:46olufsen TV which itself acts as like the

0:01:49hub for everything is like six hdmi

0:01:51inputs and built-in sound system that

0:01:53you can connect like 18 speakers to the

0:01:55TV and it does wireless stuff and

0:01:57integrates with like home control

0:01:59systems you can raise and lower your

0:02:00Brian lines and turn on your lights and

0:02:02security cameras i call all the rich

0:02:04people stuff than you would imagine

0:02:05and because the TV itself is the hub for

0:02:09all the stuff you don't have a situation

0:02:11like Casey described last time above the

0:02:13universal remote having to track the

0:02:16state of all your devices and if it gets

0:02:18out of sync that's very confused the TV

0:02:20knows the state of everything because it

0:02:22is the hub for everything and it can you

0:02:23know sense when it's getting input on

0:02:24different things and the speakers hooked

0:02:26up directly to the television so it

0:02:27takes a lot of the guesswork and they

0:02:29have all these fancy pants things where

0:02:31you can take all your equipment that's

0:02:33big and noisy and put in the basement

0:02:34and connected with a big ethernet cable

0:02:36up to your system upstairs you can hide

0:02:38all the stuff it all all the the things

0:02:41that you would spend thousands and

0:02:42thousands of dollars for course the

0:02:43downside of this is you have to at the

0:02:46very least have this big fancy bang &

0:02:47olufsen TV and some other proprietary

0:02:49components that go with it and thinking

0:02:51Olson doesn't really make the tvs that's

0:02:54that's the problem right so I the

0:02:57television that I have at the time that

0:02:59i bought it how do i bought a fancy bag

0:03:01and also thing i would be getting a

0:03:03worse television set terms of picture

0:03:04quality in exchange for all the other

0:03:06stuff so i'm still stuck because of my

0:03:09priorities buying individual components

0:03:12and slapping them together and trying to

0:03:14make do with it but if you're willing to

0:03:16compromise on not having the absolute

0:03:18very best of every individual component

0:03:20you can buy an integrated solution for

0:03:23tremendous amount of money that I don't

0:03:25think it's worth it but you'll be happy

0:03:27together by another solution i was

0:03:28asking a while back and Twitter of the

0:03:31best solution for we talk about the show

0:03:33for me to get the video off of my

0:03:35blu-rays without recompress in it just

0:03:38preserve exactly bit for bit the way it

0:03:40is in my blu-rays and then playback my

0:03:42television without having a spinning

0:03:43plastic disc that's making pretty isn't

0:03:45it

0:03:46that'll do know there but remember I was

0:03:48the issue was playback I can't get 24

0:03:50frame 24 frames per second cadence

0:03:52playback I'd oh yeah

0:03:54Long's anyway we talked about that a

0:03:56show which none of us will be remember

0:03:58in the show notes but anyway one of the

0:04:01rich person solutions that as those

0:04:03boxes they sell that I think is that

0:04:04technically legal biggest someone paid a

0:04:06lot of money to the blu-ray association

0:04:08where you by the super expensive box and

0:04:11you feed it either all your blu rays in

0:04:12a big box or one at a time and it

0:04:14basically rip your blu rays for you lost

0:04:16unless you play them back

0:04:17but it does it in a way that like

0:04:19complies with the letter of the law I

0:04:22don't know whatever it's not a pirate

0:04:24saying it's entirely legal thing but is

0:04:26tremendously expensive and it's just

0:04:28that it's like outside the amount of

0:04:29money i'm willing to pay for that i'll

0:04:31just stick the disc and DVD but in the

0:04:32blu-ray player and deal with the

0:04:34spinning disk noise at this point but

0:04:35hopefully we'll get there eventually

0:04:36wear clothes like that were really close

0:04:38the only barrier remaining is me not

0:04:41having a way to play that content back

0:04:44on my television preserving the correct

0:04:46you know from reading everything without

0:04:48doing a spinning disk i should point out

0:04:50that i have achieved eighty percent of

0:04:52this guy i also would have the same

0:04:55problem with 24 frames a second but I

0:04:57don't care you don't think I have

0:04:58anything of that right and I usually

0:05:00watch TV shows but III rip the entire

0:05:03wire blu-ray set and it was very very

0:05:07easy with modern tools because all I had

0:05:10to do was use make MKV to rip blu-ray

0:05:13and then sub-layer to basically rewrap

0:05:17it in an mp4 container without having to

0:05:19transcode the video I i believe a

0:05:21transfer the audio because i don't care

0:05:23about surround sound please email john

0:05:24and your modified it already

0:05:26yeah well who cares but that's optional

0:05:28you could have left the the giant like

0:05:31ac3 and DTS tracks on there if you

0:05:32really wanted to but I don't even have

0:05:34surround speakers anymore because I

0:05:36decided years ago they weren't worth the

0:05:37hassle so anyway so i was able to rip

0:05:39the entire TV series with with sub layer

0:05:42and make MKV in surprising little time

0:05:45and just like this like this roughly

0:05:48hundred-dollar USB 3 blu-ray drive that

0:05:51i thought i had in the closet from

0:05:53little while back and yeah it works

0:05:55great and now I play them in flex and

0:05:57it's you know that so it has all the

0:05:58metadata from flex somehow magically

0:06:00through some probably not quite legal

0:06:03service and it's great i absolutely love

0:06:05it and it's it's it's way faster and

0:06:07more reliable and way better quality

0:06:08than the HBO GO

0:06:11now many at whatever it is the HP mini

0:06:13app on TV it's way better than that way

0:06:16better quality no dropping frames issues

0:06:18so it isn't dirty it wasn't a problem

0:06:20that they write anything as a problem

0:06:21with HBO sucking and yeah

0:06:23overall a great solution to watch any

0:06:26kind of HBO show

0:06:27by the blu-rays and rip them all and it

0:06:30actually works surprisingly well that's

0:06:32what I do with the content i don't

0:06:34actually care about my character I

0:06:37needed to be the highest possible

0:06:38quality so yeah I have tons of stuff

0:06:40complex i have tons of things that are

0:06:41you nope but for the things I care about

0:06:44I want the very best quality and that's

0:06:46still putting the disc in a little Drive

0:06:48wait a minute those so the only

0:06:49limitation of what I was just saying is

0:06:51possibly audio does if the appletv can

0:06:53output whatever DTS whatever over the

0:06:56optical port then you wouldn't have any

0:06:58quality problems right

0:06:59optical bored you can do it over hdmi if

0:07:01it's it smart enough a lot a lot of the

0:07:02applications won't send the unmodified a

0:07:05audio like they won't send the DTS HD

0:07:08stream directly to my receiver they just

0:07:11want to do it even better flex would our

0:07:12this probably an opportunity plaques and

0:07:14infuse it depends on which one is in the

0:07:17best mood or like it the d/s video app I

0:07:19have many options to do it but really

0:07:21this video because that the most of the

0:07:22content really care about mostly talking

0:07:24about movies and they're 24 frames per

0:07:25second that's a dealbreaker I can't get

0:07:27that to my TV any other way

0:07:29yeah and then thats indefinitely

0:07:30hardware issue right either you don't

0:07:31have any any TV boxes that run software

0:07:34that could play movies and without put

0:07:36the right signal it's not hardware and

0:07:38software like Apple TV could be changed

0:07:40in such a way to output 24 frames per

0:07:42second cadence video is not you know my

0:07:44playstation 3 can output that that's

0:07:46what I put the blu-ray into right

0:07:47I've even tried putting the putting the

0:07:49video files on the playstation 3 and

0:07:51having it do it but I still can't get

0:07:52that to work either so the only time I

0:07:53playstation 3 outputs in this way is one

0:07:55is playing a blue right the the apple TV

0:07:57is always locked it you know 60

0:07:59frames-per-second whatever it's

0:08:00outputting out and just ran you know we

0:08:02went to this in the past yeah so it but

0:08:03I had nothing we can do it is no

0:08:05technical reasons like things are

0:08:06powerful enough for whatever a lot of

0:08:08people have your televisions than mine

0:08:10they can do the you know the one called

0:08:12the detecting the cadence and accounting

0:08:14for and everything but I've run all the

0:08:15video test and it just nothing can get

0:08:1724 frames per second out there except

0:08:19for my blu-ray player so that's what i

0:08:21keep using my next set up hopefully

0:08:23we'll be able to do it if not it's not

0:08:25the end of the world like a blu-ray

0:08:27players like it's not a thing i do

0:08:28frequently and it's only for a small

0:08:30subset of movies so just keep sticking a

0:08:31discount

0:08:32although my solution doesn't have fan

0:08:34noise either but you're missing out on

0:08:37the things that John's eyeballs can't

0:08:39even see if you don't know that he's

0:08:41missing out on it i can see them but a

0:08:44couple thoughts are mostly on what I

0:08:46market said I'd like to completely agree

0:08:48with him about making MKV it is

0:08:51wonderful especially as paired with if

0:08:53you're willing to recompress stuff down

0:08:55mountains compression scripts which

0:08:56we've talked about the past and i

0:08:58believe i've written a post about at

0:09:00some point or another if I have put in

0:09:02the show notes

0:09:02oh yeah those are awesome but the bit

0:09:05like nowadays like its I mean Rican

0:09:07pressing blueberries is a pretty is

0:09:08still even a modern hardware still a

0:09:10very computer intensive pretty long

0:09:12running process and you can just run

0:09:14them in a batch overnight but still it

0:09:16still takes a lot and if you have any

0:09:18way to use three-and-a-half-inch hard

0:09:21drives as your storage yeah so anyway

0:09:24whether that's external drive in your

0:09:26desk or an ass in the closet full of

0:09:28discs whatever-it-is

0:09:29three-and-a-half-inch hard drives are so

0:09:32massive and cheap these days that looks

0:09:35like you just have like basically

0:09:37infinite storage space if you can use

0:09:38those dr somehow and so I just you know

0:09:41what these days I ripped the heart

0:09:43rhythm all from blu-rays and the whole

0:09:45wire series is 560 gigs from the

0:09:49principal and it doesn't matter if

0:09:51possible most feature films are 30 or 40

0:09:54cakes i think something like that and

0:09:56the wires considerably longer than that

0:09:58and to go back one more step you are

0:10:00talking and I know you said it jokingly

0:10:02about Osama legal way that lets get some

0:10:04metadata I don't believe it's legal at

0:10:06all they don't use a IMDb which I

0:10:08presume is for some sort of Licensing

0:10:10reason or something but they do use the

0:10:13TV database which is the TV b.com and

0:10:16the movie database which is the movie

0:10:17DVD org and we'll put those links in the

0:10:19show notes

0:10:20those are less geared around browsing in

0:10:23my opinion who did what and when and

0:10:25more about getting metadata about films

0:10:27which is probably why plex uses it but

0:10:30they are to the best of my knowledge

0:10:31completely legal

0:10:32what about like all the copyrighted

0:10:33material on them is that like it was

0:10:35weird grey areas or is it that you mean

0:10:37like the google image search for movie

0:10:38posters and rest shove them in there

0:10:40probably not really oh that's true

0:10:42actually

0:10:43didn't think about that I don't know but

0:10:44anyway anything else on video and that

0:10:47sort of thing we have one other piece of

0:10:48follow-up real quick though I do have a

0:10:50quick bit of follow-up on my hdmi-cec

0:10:53situation

0:10:55mmm the setting was off i told you so

0:10:58huh that's the KC KC debug your problem

0:11:01you're right yeah I I hadn't checked I

0:11:02didn't even know you could turn it off

0:11:03so I hadn't checked it and it was on

0:11:06what like it worked for months

0:11:08somehow it turned off it's pretty deep

0:11:10in settings i'm pretty sure i would have

0:11:11accidentally done that since I never go

0:11:12to settings screen but a matter maybe it

0:11:15maybe one of the software updates

0:11:16might've turned it off i don't know what

0:11:18are the features of CC is they can take

0:11:19in turn off CC goodness gracious

0:11:25alright the last piece follow-up we have

0:11:27from friend of the show Matt Bischoff

0:11:29John I think especially was talking last

0:11:32episode about what ingredients are in

0:11:35what I screams and yells hey it's in

0:11:38John's opinion if i recall correctly

0:11:40said there should only be a handful of

0:11:42ingredients they need in any true

0:11:43indecent ice cream and Matt Bischoff has

0:11:46done a survey of many of the popular ice

0:11:48cream brands we've mentioned and even a

0:11:50couple of others and put together an air

0:11:54table which is the site i've never heard

0:11:55of before but it's very cool

0:11:56I'm it looks like basically a a Google

0:11:59sheet or Excel spreadsheet if you will

0:12:01but also a little bit more than that and

0:12:03so you can see all the different

0:12:04ingredients matt has included the

0:12:06ingredients ingredients count calories

0:12:08per serving serving size colors program

0:12:11and even links because he is that

0:12:12thorough is there anything that guy

0:12:14doesn't to pretty much perfectly i doubt

0:12:16it but anyway worth checking out John

0:12:18now that you've seen this any opinions

0:12:19on any of the stuff a lot of people

0:12:21wanted to write in and tell me why all

0:12:23those ingredients are in there

0:12:24I know why they're in there

0:12:25unfortunately the list of ingredients

0:12:26doesn't tell you what i really want to

0:12:28know which one should emphasize last

0:12:29time is how much of this stuff right so

0:12:31the things that we're talking about that

0:12:33are not things that you would put an ice

0:12:34cream that you making your own house

0:12:35with your ice cream maker which by the

0:12:37way is really easy and everyone should

0:12:38do it doesn't take a lot of room you

0:12:39should get one they're fun is there

0:12:43putting ingredients to make it so that

0:12:45when the ice cream thaws and then

0:12:47refreezes you don't get those big chunky

0:12:49ice crystals you ever do that if you

0:12:51with any way I from the star whatever

0:12:53like it was a little bit and like are

0:12:55here if your refrigerator

0:12:56our freezer like you could leave the

0:12:57door open or something or the power goes

0:12:59out for a long time everything kind of

0:13:01like melts a little bit but then

0:13:02refreezes and then you take this year I

0:13:04got you can tell that it's melted and

0:13:05refrozen and I someone can find a

0:13:08physics video in youtube explaining how

0:13:10like the the ice crystals with the water

0:13:12separates from the non motor parts then

0:13:13informs larger ice crystals and taste

0:13:15all crunchy and gross and you don't like

0:13:16that bet egg yolk is one example of like

0:13:20an emulsifier essentially that will keep

0:13:21the things mixed together kind of like

0:13:24how i do can I get a salad dressing will

0:13:26keep the oil and vinegar mixed together

0:13:27it will keep them from separating same

0:13:29thing will keep like the liquid the

0:13:30water from separating from the solid

0:13:31ingredients making the big ice crystal

0:13:33symmetry melts at you some more

0:13:35expensive obviously almost all the other

0:13:37things they put in these various gums

0:13:39and other called stabilizers for

0:13:40stabilizer is because they want to

0:13:42account for the fact the ice cream is

0:13:43going to be shipped from far away in

0:13:45trucks with imperfect refrigeration and

0:13:47it's going to melt and refreeze the

0:13:48melting or freezing melting and

0:13:50refreezing I didn't have the stabilizers

0:13:51in them that it would taste terrible

0:13:53would just be like you know big chunky

0:13:56water sharp ice crystals in there

0:13:58doesn't taste good you want to be smooth

0:13:59and creamy so the cheaper ice creams in

0:14:02addition to this thing of what is it

0:14:04called overrun i forget what the hell is

0:14:06called how much air they blow into it to

0:14:07make you buy air instead of densely

0:14:10packed think that's why haagen-dazs is

0:14:11more dense than regular stuff but anyway

0:14:13setting aside the air thing because some

0:14:14people just like a soft dry ice cream

0:14:16that the cheaper the ice cream the more

0:14:19stabilizer they put in it and they put

0:14:21lots and lots of stabilized to be very

0:14:22resilient to freezing and thawing and

0:14:25they don't have to put in the egg yolks

0:14:26or any other more expensive ingredient

0:14:28in there and it's still you know seems

0:14:30smooth and creamy no matter where you

0:14:32get so not just that there are

0:14:34stabilizers it's how much and the

0:14:36ingredient list doesn't tell you how

0:14:37much but they don't have a mouse just an

0:14:38order by you know the most agree that

0:14:41there's the most of and then the second

0:14:42most and so on and so forth but it

0:14:44doesn't give you numbers and my

0:14:46impression of the really the worst ice

0:14:48cream flavors they have a lot of

0:14:49stabilizers and a lot of other things

0:14:51that affect texture and stuff and that

0:14:53there's more of them that you know i

0:14:55would like it

0:14:56haagen-dazs couple their flavors have

0:14:57some stabilizing but not a lot and as my

0:15:00impression and then other ones that have

0:15:02the exact same ingredient lists tastes

0:15:04like I'm eating

0:15:05I don't foam rubber or something it just

0:15:07doesn't taste right ace natural so

0:15:09that's and this this list like going

0:15:12down to coldstone creamery having 17

0:15:13ingredients including like ethyl alcohol

0:15:16and artificial flavor whatever that is

0:15:19and triethyl citrate and you know all

0:15:22sorts of other things to that effect the

0:15:25color the flavor and then to of avoiding

0:15:29those ice crystals and everything and

0:15:30what I heard from somebody was it and

0:15:31others Twitter or someone email me or

0:15:33something about how to ask for example

0:15:34how can they get away with not having

0:15:36stabilizers and for example there are no

0:15:38ice cream

0:15:38how can they do that because apparently

0:15:40they own the distribution train chain

0:15:42and their own their own refrigerated

0:15:43trucks they basically make sure that

0:15:44their ice cream never never melts and

0:15:46refuses because if you were to melt and

0:15:48reorganize I've done it

0:15:49we have power outages and stuff it is

0:15:51terrible to count all the ice crystals a

0:15:53four-minute no stabilizers except

0:15:55Regulus which are expensive right so

0:15:58anyway try making your own ice cream try

0:16:00avoiding the ice cream is not that have

0:16:02any stabilizers and but they basically

0:16:03tastes like you're eating a big thing of

0:16:05plastic and you'll be happier

0:16:08yeah i mean just try of traveling the

0:16:10ones whose ingredient sound like jet

0:16:12fuel is basically a good rule here also

0:16:16a quick follow-up a handful of people

0:16:18wrote me to say oh I didn't know that

0:16:21dryers or briars was Edie's where you

0:16:23are and and so on and so forth and and

0:16:26apparently i got myself very mixed up

0:16:29about what's Edie's vs dryers vs briars

0:16:32and so I had commented that the slow

0:16:35churned which I think had I had

0:16:38attributed to dryers the slow turn which

0:16:41is the low fat ice cream is actually my

0:16:43favorite by taste ice cream which I know

0:16:44John really really hates and somebody

0:16:48wrote not only me but ed is ice cream on

0:16:50Twitter to say you know hey what's the

0:16:51story I thought that was a tease and it

0:16:54is

0:16:55Edie's where I am I had been confused

0:16:57Andes ice cream is written Edie's is

0:16:59called dryers west of the Rocky

0:17:01Mountains and just FYI it's delicious no

0:17:04matter what you call it I think so thank

0:17:05you tease social media team for

0:17:08correcting my unbelievable faux pas

0:17:10that's one of my least favorite brands

0:17:12of ice cream eating yeah but I should

0:17:13recognize the container with states it's

0:17:14the same drivers just as

0:17:16word on it's kind of like the helmets

0:17:18and best foods made a situation one

0:17:21flavor of ease though is a flavor this

0:17:23ties into last week that I don't think

0:17:25it's available anywhere else that I

0:17:27think tastes pretty terrible and does

0:17:29not taste like it tastes very artificial

0:17:31to me and yet i still find myself eating

0:17:32it was probably bad is that they make a

0:17:35flavor that has basically suppose mixed

0:17:37into the ice cream

0:17:38oh I tried that it's it I found it

0:17:40overwhelmingly like artificial and we're

0:17:43totally enjoyed it totally tastes like

0:17:45you're eating like puffy plastic with

0:17:48some oohs and yes and yet i still find

0:17:50myself eating it so that's like I mean I

0:17:52don't I would never buy willingly but

0:17:53sometimes it appears in the house when

0:17:55it does appear in the house i usually

0:17:56want touchy these at all but that when i

0:17:58will text i would feel bad i would stop

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0:20:02today once again that's trunk club com /

0:20:05ATP thanks a lot for sponsoring I've

0:20:11done a terrible job with my duties as

0:20:13chief summarizer in chief and I have not

0:20:15done my homework I've pulled a Marco and

0:20:17I apologize to everyone welcome it's

0:20:20nice over here

0:20:20really it was very relaxing i will admit

0:20:23so apparently something has happened

0:20:26with iCloud vs dropbox for Scrivener is

0:20:28that how you pronounce at Scribner

0:20:29sinking and I don't know which one you

0:20:32put this in the show notes but I will

0:20:33kick it over to you to take over my

0:20:34duties and the mantle can guess

0:20:37yeah I figured it was you but I also

0:20:39didn't hear about this this is gonna be

0:20:41a short segment we all right John tell

0:20:44us about Scribner if you please it's my

0:20:45old news and I bring it back up to the

0:20:47top because it ties into our past

0:20:49discussions about a PFS and the cloning

0:20:52of entire directory hierarchies without

0:20:54having to like go down and copy each

0:20:56individual file dressed up to clone a

0:20:57whole tree of the file system in a copy

0:20:59in right manner which is good for apples

0:21:02file formats that are actually folders

0:21:04for files also Scrivener is a word

0:21:07processing application for like it i

0:21:08think design most for writing like books

0:21:10you can have like notes and your

0:21:12outlines and plot summary and character

0:21:14information all tied together with your

0:21:15manuscript the book you're writing and

0:21:17everything and it uses a file format

0:21:19that's also a directory full of files

0:21:20you can have all these different things

0:21:22it's basically like a big project format

0:21:23right and they have a sinking system and

0:21:27they were going to use iCloud apparently

0:21:30but we're not able to because it doesn't

0:21:32provide the features they need to sync

0:21:33there

0:21:34directory for files things that they're

0:21:37gonna try to be nice as much sweet love

0:21:39iCloud this is from this webpage link in

0:21:40the show notes current from the script

0:21:42of people themselves current limitations

0:21:44and in the end difficulties with iCloud

0:21:46mean it's not great present

0:21:48not at present suited for the sort of

0:21:50complex package base file format used by

0:21:51scoring you would think it would be

0:21:52totally suited for that because Apple

0:21:54has those file formats to and you know

0:21:56the next operating system and sort of

0:21:57the genesis of those file formats of the

0:21:59popularization of them anyway but no

0:22:02dropbox on the other hand which is what

0:22:04they do use first thing solution gives

0:22:06them the control they need and one of

0:22:07the big complaints but I cloud is they

0:22:09don't know when things will sink it's

0:22:11not as if they can initiate a sink and

0:22:12get notified when it's done things just

0:22:14magically appear behind the scenes in

0:22:16sort of a background manner and that can

0:22:18leave this file format this folder for

0:22:21files in an unknown inconsistent state

0:22:23and so what they say in this blog post

0:22:27about his technical limitations is

0:22:28they'd rather have use complaining they

0:22:30don't like manually sinking then the

0:22:33just lost for hours of writing because

0:22:34of structural changes like you could end

0:22:36up with a document like if you saying

0:22:37you think you're doing your clothes

0:22:38letting your laptop but didn't really

0:22:39finish you got like a half finished

0:22:40document there and that's bad and

0:22:43dropbox apparently gives them the

0:22:44control to sink the whole thing on

0:22:46demand let me know when it's done either

0:22:47have the thing entirely synced or

0:22:49entirely in the previous state clear

0:22:52with apple's new file system that they

0:22:54will have at least on a local side the

0:22:56ability to do these operations

0:22:57atomically but their iCloud api's with

0:23:00the sort of magic

0:23:02oh you don't need to know the details

0:23:03just so there's a folder there and

0:23:05eventually the documents you want to

0:23:07appear everywhere and in the meantime

0:23:08there's like proxy documents that you

0:23:10can get metadata about and so it doesn't

0:23:11work when what you care about is not an

0:23:14individual file but entire directory

0:23:16full of files because apparently that

0:23:19that you know the iCloud Drive and sick

0:23:22people were on the same page with the

0:23:24people writing that are tfd files and

0:23:26text editor maybe doesn't matter when

0:23:28you've got a half-finished rd file may

0:23:30assume it will sink in the rest of the

0:23:31way anyway this is yet another sad story

0:23:33of a developer who desperately wants to

0:23:35use iCloud eventually having to go to a

0:23:37different solution very often developers

0:23:39are all their own solutions or they go a

0:23:41dropbox or something else is sort of the

0:23:43the ongoing failure of

0:23:45icloud to fulfill the even the most

0:23:48basic needs of some of the best

0:23:50developers of mac applications or iOS

0:23:53applications that matter files thinking

0:23:56is your data syncing is hard in general

0:23:58and I think what we see is iCloud Drive

0:24:01and you know it's in other words

0:24:02examples where like when I clad

0:24:04interacts with the filesystem it's not

0:24:07it's not always great

0:24:10it seems like cloudkit and what they've

0:24:12made with cloudkit is able to be really

0:24:15great and you know it with certain apps

0:24:17with certain things that go well they'll

0:24:18be really great but whenever I said

0:24:20interacts with like files on disk that

0:24:22have to existing file system and be

0:24:24interacted with it in other ways as well

0:24:26that is that seems like it's not even

0:24:29there yet and I worry about that a

0:24:31little bit but you know we have other

0:24:33solutions for that we have dropbox we

0:24:35have well drop box and it's and it seems

0:24:39to work well for most people so i guess

0:24:42it's okay now I is located in the in the

0:24:44grand scheme of things but it was kind

0:24:46of sad that Apple is still not really

0:24:48playing well in that game

0:24:49I mean on the individual file basis to

0:24:51have most of this was not the whole idea

0:24:53is the difference between an API where

0:24:55you say please do sink now like even a

0:24:57synchronous API where you say make this

0:25:00call and when the call returns the thing

0:25:02i asked to be done is done that can work

0:25:04on individual file basis and cloud is

0:25:06much more like that and that you have

0:25:07the control over that i'm not sure if

0:25:09they complain about clouds kit

0:25:10specifically for iCloud Drive that

0:25:11doesn't like magically got in the back

0:25:13but all that is on a single individual

0:25:16file there's no sort of like oh this

0:25:18entire tree of files i want you to think

0:25:20all that and tell me when all that is

0:25:22done unless you're going to try to each

0:25:23individual one and then what about files

0:25:25that have been added or removed there's

0:25:27no there's no api for to do things at

0:25:29that level and the related thing that

0:25:31came up today

0:25:33this is about the Sierra beta maybe I

0:25:35shouldn't say who's reporting this

0:25:37because I don't know what you're

0:25:37supposed to say about the Sierra bait is

0:25:39a public beta i don't know i don't know

0:25:41the rules in your but anyway we all know

0:25:43from the keynote that mac OS Sierra has

0:25:46this feature where it will automatically

0:25:49sync your desktop remember that like all

0:25:52the stuff you need to stop between your

0:25:53max and also apparently your documents

0:25:54folder I figure it is when i installed

0:25:56it's like a checkbox or something hey do

0:25:58you want

0:25:58do you want like Apple to sync all the

0:26:00stuff in your documents folder and

0:26:01desktop and I was like hell no discussed

0:26:06in the past likely has done to anyway so

0:26:08someone someone we all know check that

0:26:11checkbox to see what it was like and

0:26:13like bodyguards and especially have one

0:26:14computer like da it's thinking stuff or

0:26:17whatever and at some point it they said

0:26:20all right i want to stop doing that and

0:26:22like uncheck the checkbox and when you

0:26:23uncheck it's like I that you know that

0:26:26the phrasing they use like when you go

0:26:27into the iCloud preference pane and

0:26:29uncheck like contacts or something or

0:26:31whatever and it's like keep in mind that

0:26:34the whatever it will no longer be

0:26:35available on your Mac you know that

0:26:37everything that was like the way they

0:26:39don't want to say we're going to delete

0:26:40your stuff but they're like whatever

0:26:42you're talking about will no longer be

0:26:44available on your Mac or some somebody

0:26:46like that and i don't know if people

0:26:48really know what that means

0:26:50I mean it's kind of it's accurate but it

0:26:52means like your stuff go bye-bye now

0:26:54like it's not gonna be there anything

0:26:55we're going to delete it and and this

0:26:58person who's checking this box like but

0:27:00this is my documents folder surely don't

0:27:02they don't mean they'll remove

0:27:03everything in my documents folder if I

0:27:05check this checkbox right so this person

0:27:08unchecked it and lo and behold the

0:27:10documents everything in the documents

0:27:11folder went away like everything

0:27:14oh now it's not really gone apparently

0:27:17like the system is is scrolling it away

0:27:19in a different location if you know

0:27:20where you can you can you know find it

0:27:23it's still there like and you can make

0:27:24you come back we succinct and all that

0:27:25other stuff but this is probably working

0:27:28like as designed

0:27:29but a this is a terrifying design

0:27:31because i don't think people expected to

0:27:33happen i think people mostly do keep

0:27:34everything that they care about on their

0:27:36desktop in the document soldier if they

0:27:37were to uncheck the checkbox it

0:27:38everything disappeared even if they can

0:27:40get it back by rechecking the the panic

0:27:43and the trust lost by that interaction

0:27:45is terrible and then set the other part

0:27:48of that is if anything does go wrong and

0:27:50you check the checkbox to try to get it

0:27:51back and it gives you back like an old

0:27:53version of the file or something like it

0:27:55which you know could happen because

0:27:57think it's really hard that's going to

0:27:58be just insult on top of injury will be

0:28:01be terrible so I really hope they

0:28:03reconsider this interface and the whole

0:28:05idea

0:28:06this is a series of check boxes that you

0:28:08can check the mixed up with like one of

0:28:09the most important

0:28:11sort of user interface decisions that

0:28:15dropbox made was that the files in

0:28:18dropbox will want to talk about this

0:28:19marvelous dropboxes project infinite

0:28:21which changes this soon but the files in

0:28:23dropbox folder or just plain files on

0:28:25your Mac if you turn dropbox off those

0:28:28files are still sitting on your Mac

0:28:29exactly where they were

0:28:30if you never run dropbox again those

0:28:32files are still just sitting there right

0:28:33there not drop box doesn't like control

0:28:37those files to the point where I go you

0:28:38quit dropbox your entire dropbox folder

0:28:40is empty

0:28:40no they're just files on your disk when

0:28:41you turn dropbox on it looks at it is

0:28:44dropbox folder and sinks the mall and

0:28:45does all this stuff or whatever when you

0:28:46turn it off or if dropbox crashes in the

0:28:48middle

0:28:49everything is just exactly the way it

0:28:50was because they're just real files on

0:28:52your disk and yes that means that if you

0:28:53have five computers all using dropbox

0:28:55you have five individual different

0:28:56copies of those same files and if you

0:28:59installed dropbox from all of them not

0:29:01all five computers have the same files

0:29:02on them but they're just plain files on

0:29:03disk same is true of iCloud Drive but

0:29:06the policy is saying when you uncheck

0:29:08this checkbox the only way we can deal

0:29:09with it is to remove these things from

0:29:12your documents folder from your desktop

0:29:13and blanket out and put them into a

0:29:14different folder even or do anything

0:29:17with them at all other than to leave

0:29:18them exactly where they are is that is

0:29:21the wrong decision even if it works

0:29:22perfectly so anyway

0:29:24Sierra's beta i don't know if this was

0:29:26intended feature a bug anything you know

0:29:29but plenty of Asterix and caveats on

0:29:32this I'm not slamming and release

0:29:34operating system but i really hope when

0:29:36this feature does exist that has a

0:29:37better policy than that and even it

0:29:38doesn't snow on enabling it because i

0:29:40still find a scary

0:29:41yeah i mean i think this is one of those

0:29:43problems where you know but when you

0:29:45have like the the folder full of files

0:29:47that need to be synced there are so many

0:29:49weird little uncomfortable edge cases or

0:29:53areas where you need some kind of

0:29:54administrator tools so for instance any

0:29:56kind of merge conflict or like what

0:29:59dropbox does which we learn about with

0:30:01our with our discussion about filenames

0:30:03apparently like Dropbox will create like

0:30:05a conflict if you have two different

0:30:08unicode encoding to the same name it

0:30:10will just leave them both there and

0:30:12we'll rename one or both of them like

0:30:14naming conflicts or something like that

0:30:16right and what if if you have a merge

0:30:18conflict in dropbox it keeps both or all

0:30:21three files and it just renamed them

0:30:23with parenthesis at the end like

0:30:24no you know conflict version whatever

0:30:26whatever whatever whatever other format

0:30:28they use and these are all kind of ugly

0:30:30solutions to real-world conditions but

0:30:33these are the kind of these are the kind

0:30:35of like ugly results that you kind of

0:30:38can't automate this away in a way that

0:30:40will never lose data for people or that

0:30:42will that will always do exactly what

0:30:43people want to do but Apple tries to so

0:30:47Apple Apple seems like the kind of

0:30:49institutionally allergic to adding in

0:30:52these kind of like administrative

0:30:55ugliness things that even when they have

0:30:58to be there like a case like a merge

0:30:59conflict on file-sharing like a dropbox

0:31:01folder Apple solution is usually we're

0:31:05just gonna guess and hope that we guess

0:31:06right through some kind of heuristics

0:31:08that will probably write most of the

0:31:09time and if that will just deal with it

0:31:12like that will just be the way it dealt

0:31:13with then if you lose data oh well like

0:31:16that seems to be their approach most of

0:31:17the time of these kind of like difficult

0:31:19sync problems but i don't think that

0:31:21works very well in in an environment

0:31:23where you have like peoples files in

0:31:25folders that have always worked a

0:31:26certain with people are accustomed to

0:31:27the people expect and that people will

0:31:29require for their data to be you know

0:31:31there and reliable and intact and

0:31:32everything like apples approach to just

0:31:34where it's going to go into avoid giving

0:31:36you any kind of controls to manage the

0:31:38actual complexity of this problem i

0:31:40don't think that works for files one of

0:31:42the advancements of cloudkit was that it

0:31:44would delegate to the application to

0:31:46make this decision to say college kid

0:31:47will let you know there's a conflict and

0:31:50you'll get this callback and it's up to

0:31:51you what to do about it and you could

0:31:53decide in your application I'm just

0:31:54gonna keep all three copies your name

0:31:55with parentheses write this the

0:31:58situation with the iCloud Drive or

0:32:01whatever the sinking of the desktop

0:32:02stuff is like that's more of a policy

0:32:05decision saying what should we do when

0:32:06we uncheck that box I think the right

0:32:08decision and check that box is just

0:32:09leave everything exactly the way it is

0:32:11on desk and not mess with it anymore but

0:32:13the decision-making is kind of the same

0:32:14decision they make for contacts or and

0:32:17all the other things you can check and

0:32:19uncheck the iCloud preference pane that

0:32:21they well sometimes they act like

0:32:22they're gonna ask you should we remove

0:32:24the ones or leave them on your Mac they

0:32:25should ask the same thing for the

0:32:26documents again we're going to think

0:32:27maybe this is an intentional feature

0:32:29they just haven't gotten around to that

0:32:30to change that dialog box in that way

0:32:32but it just goes to show that there are

0:32:34lots of things that you can do to

0:32:36confuse and frighten the user and

0:32:38perhaps the worst one is making all

0:32:39their stuff apparently disappear

0:32:41universe all safely preserved both

0:32:42locally in a different folder that they

0:32:44renamed and on the cloud that that

0:32:47moment of trust you know you're losing

0:32:49the users trust is going to make them

0:32:50now i'm going to use that product

0:32:52anymore and drop box with the renaming

0:32:53with the garbage house and everything my

0:32:55experiences that happens to people and

0:32:57they don't even notice until like a

0:32:58month later like what is this

0:33:00whatever is conflicted copy file here I

0:33:02don't quite understand that but the

0:33:04reason they didn't notice is because it

0:33:06didn't actually delete anything and

0:33:07always you know fails in a way that

0:33:10gives you extra data extra garbage files

0:33:13like well I've got the file that

0:33:14expected everything to more than I

0:33:15didn't expect that you've got all three

0:33:17versions of the file and if one of them

0:33:18is named differently and you can't

0:33:19figure it out you go there and you sort

0:33:21by name and you'll find there's a bunch

0:33:23of the file similar you'll find your

0:33:24stuff like it won't as opposed to trying

0:33:27to pick the correct file for you or

0:33:29presenting some dialogue for you to

0:33:32choose how to resolve the conflict when

0:33:33you don't have enough information to do

0:33:35that so dropbox solution is not great

0:33:38for a lot of situations where you don't

0:33:39want to making a bunch of garbage files

0:33:41but it's a good choice for just sort of

0:33:43a generic been full of uh you know

0:33:45folders for files without any specific

0:33:48purpose because it you know that their

0:33:51their strategy is the worst thing we can

0:33:53do is lose someone's data uh it's much

0:33:57better to give them a bunch of garbage

0:33:59files into makes them disappear

0:34:01why do you think that Google Drive and

0:34:04like onedrive and to some degree box

0:34:07haven't tried to be that like everything

0:34:09sink engine that dropbox has seemed to

0:34:11become they are trying that it's a

0:34:14different policies like I think Google

0:34:16Drive is very similar to dropbox i

0:34:18haven't actually used one drive but all

0:34:20of them

0:34:21oh all these products including dropbox

0:34:22now with the project infinite thing are

0:34:24dancing around the other trade off like

0:34:26Dropbox thing of a every single files on

0:34:29your on your mac and we will think it

0:34:31and then i added selective sink many

0:34:32years ago where you can choose which

0:34:34files you want to sync

0:34:36dropbox infinite is all right we'll make

0:34:40it look like the files is my

0:34:41understanding and eventually actually

0:34:42use it will make it look like the files

0:34:44on your Mac but really they will be in

0:34:45the cloud which makes a lot of sensitive

0:34:46in a pervasively network-connected

0:34:48office and let you like pin i'm assuming

0:34:51it will let you pin files to your Mac so

0:34:52they don't go away

0:34:53it's it's so you can have basically more

0:34:56stuff in your dropbox then will fit on

0:34:58your Mac or like selective on-demand

0:35:00selective sinks are like your paging in

0:35:02the files from the cloud onto your mac

0:35:04as you use them and as you don't use

0:35:06them they don't need to be on your Mac

0:35:07or you could say never bring this all on

0:35:10my Mac just sort of impacts it over the

0:35:11network is sort of a blending of NFS

0:35:14mounts and dropbox complete copying of

0:35:16files and all the stuff and it does that

0:35:18with a kernel extensions a whole article

0:35:20about it on dropbox think it's it's very

0:35:23interesting but it's a very different

0:35:24trade off the dropbox makes and it's

0:35:26much more dangerous because they messed

0:35:27anything up there

0:35:29bad things can happen like the the

0:35:31reassurance of dropbox like i said is

0:35:33that you can quit the dropbox app never

0:35:35launched it again and everything in that

0:35:36dropbox folder is exactly you know what

0:35:38you see is what's there now those files

0:35:40are fake none of them are proxy files

0:35:41that are all there they're all taking up

0:35:43the space on your Mac you don't have to

0:35:45worry wonder which ones are where and

0:35:47you know you can move things in and out

0:35:50of it they're not constrained in any way

0:35:51they don't have weird permissions on

0:35:53them they're just plain old files and

0:35:55project it takes that away in exchange

0:35:57for your not having to deal with

0:35:59selective sink and have you you know

0:36:01fill up your disk because someone in a

0:36:02share folder put a ton of stuff in there

0:36:04and all sorts of other downsides of the

0:36:07traditional dropbox model but it's a

0:36:09much higher degree of difficulty

0:36:10anything a lot of the other vendors went

0:36:12right for the higher degree of

0:36:13difficulty and never sort of started off

0:36:16as simple as Dropbox advantage tropic

0:36:17has had I think is that you know before

0:36:20selective think it was a very simple

0:36:22user model that people could understand

0:36:24didn't have a lot of features was so

0:36:26simple can be implemented by a bunch of

0:36:27python scripts for crying out loud and I

0:36:30think dropbox built a lot of trust and

0:36:33goodwill with that simple model and now

0:36:36they can expand like as expand to select

0:36:38this think that didn't cause people to

0:36:39flee because it was too confusing to

0:36:40just a tweak of the thing they

0:36:41understood will see a project incident

0:36:43as a bridge too far but I think that's

0:36:45the big advantage that dropbox had that

0:36:47I think big companies like Google

0:36:48Microsoft can't help

0:36:49but immediately implement all the

0:36:51complicated features do you plan on

0:36:53trying dropbox infinite I doubt it

0:36:57I mean I'm I'm not dissatisfied with the

0:37:00plane dropbox I have a lot of disk space

0:37:02i do you select this think sometimes to

0:37:04keep things you know from getting too

0:37:07big they do have some shared folders and

0:37:08I really hate dropboxes policy of like

0:37:09shared folders count towards your quota

0:37:11which is ridiculous because you know

0:37:12they're only starting one copy of the

0:37:13stuff server-side probably won't

0:37:16especially since it uses the colonel

0:37:18extension but i will be curious about it

0:37:19so I don't rule it out

0:37:21yeah i don't i don't actually plan to

0:37:22try it honestly I mean maybe if you know

0:37:26on a laptop i might try it on my main

0:37:28computer i definitely would rather just

0:37:30buy more hard drive space and just suck

0:37:32it up then then run those risks and

0:37:34everything but on a laptop maybe yeah i

0:37:37don't i don't have that much stuff in my

0:37:40dropbox well I have nine gigs available

0:37:45of which I've used a little over half of

0:37:47it so there's something there's what

0:37:49four gigs little more maybe even five

0:37:51gigs in there but it's not that much and

0:37:54even the smallest laptop can grab all of

0:37:57that i'm still on a free dropbox plan i

0:38:00haven't had a need to pay for and i'm

0:38:01not opposed to paying for it i just had

0:38:03the need to pay for it so i actually

0:38:05just started paying for at WTC this year

0:38:08like that's like finally what

0:38:11so what put you over the edge I wanted

0:38:14an easy way to quickly have a backup of

0:38:17the podcast files that we had recorded

0:38:20there and it was just easier than

0:38:23setting up something else at that moment

0:38:24in the in the very brief time but I was

0:38:26sitting in the Fast Ethernet area of

0:38:29moscone well enough and i thought you

0:38:31know what I i kept hitting it because i

0:38:32only had like the regular 2gig limit

0:38:34plus like a couple hundred max woman but

0:38:36I would I kept I kept running into that

0:38:37all the time with just like transferring

0:38:39podcast files back and forth like you

0:38:40know this is video it's about time

0:38:42let me let me actually finally pay for

0:38:44this product that i've been using and

0:38:45running the business on for literally

0:38:47years

0:38:47yeah makes sense and i also kinda like

0:38:51that

0:38:52the synology has a lot of a cloud sync

0:38:55or something like that which puts a copy

0:38:56of dropbox on this technology just meet

0:38:58as another backup

0:39:00oh I don't know that yeah i think it's

0:39:01called cloud sync there's one of the

0:39:03apps that you can install i'll have to

0:39:06get it get you the name after the show

0:39:08one of the apps you can install

0:39:09basically acts as another dropbox client

0:39:12and so if you wanted to you could have

0:39:14an additional backup of your dropbox

0:39:17sitting on your Synology our second part

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0:41:29show once again apparently hackintosh

0:41:35'as are still a thing and micron doll

0:41:38just built one and that's about the

0:41:40extent of my knowledge on this on this

0:41:41scenario so John tell us about this

0:41:43yeah don't call it a comeback people are

0:41:44always it came up again because someone

0:41:48didn't have a blog post about it and it

0:41:50as we've been talking about for weeks on

0:41:52the show about how it's basically the

0:41:54wrong time to buy any Mac because

0:41:55they're all locally out of date with the

0:41:57exception of the 5k imac maybe and I

0:42:00guess the little macbook I suppose

0:42:01because that's fairly up-to-date but

0:42:03everything else is just as incredibly

0:42:05old hardware there's been lots of snarky

0:42:07tweets about involvement think someone

0:42:09Marco retweeted somebody saying I used

0:42:12to be that you made a hackintosh to get

0:42:15yourself a cheap mcintosh now you do a

0:42:17hackintosh just so you can run mac OS on

0:42:19hardware that is not insanely outdated

0:42:21like it's not it's not it's not a

0:42:23money-saving move and it's not even like

0:42:25I want to build this amazing beast of a

0:42:27box type of move

0:42:28it's more like I just want to run my

0:42:30preferred operating system on hardware

0:42:33that was made in the past year or two

0:42:36and so that's apple's fault for letting

0:42:39that stuff go by but every time someone

0:42:41builds hackintosh people are amazed that

0:42:43you can essentially build a pc which is

0:42:45what you know

0:42:46marmax are it when you get down to brass

0:42:48tacks in terms of the components for an

0:42:50incredibly small amount of money so this

0:42:52was a 1200 dollar hackintosh it's like

0:42:54Trump's any computer could buy from

0:42:56apple at any price for the most part it

0:42:59particularly galling are things like how

0:43:02cheap the ram can be you know it's not

0:43:04apples to apples i go on the Mac Pro has

0:43:06ECC ram and that's why I cost more money

0:43:08and all these other excuses for why the

0:43:10ram so much more expensive but

0:43:11I will cause we have to be just before

0:43:13the show apple charges thirteen hundred

0:43:15dollars for 64 gigabytes of ddr3 ram for

0:43:18the mac pro you can get 64 gigabytes of

0:43:21ddr4 ram for $275 so that is $275 verses

0:43:28thirteen hundred dollars the same man

0:43:30daram just drop the easy i granted it is

0:43:32DC vs not but that is you know that

0:43:34doesn't fit the price but not that much

0:43:36yeah exactly i mean is it's nonsensical

0:43:38like that the price of the mac pros is

0:43:40crazy pants and well I will say though

0:43:42with with this particular case this

0:43:44particular hackintosh it is not using

0:43:47the xeon it is not using the server

0:43:48chipset is not using ECC ram it is

0:43:51really an imac not a macpro comparison

0:43:55here this and there it is still a good

0:43:58comparison to make

0:43:59however this is not making a very cheap

0:44:01mac pro this is making a very cheap imac

0:44:03but it's way faster than the mac pro

0:44:05though in every measurable way so it

0:44:07doesn't really matter isn't it literally

0:44:08the exact same CPU that sold for in the

0:44:105k imac probably on the footpath for the

0:44:125k I guess faster than the mac pro like

0:44:14you know except for in massively

0:44:15parallel things we got a 12-core blah

0:44:17blah blah i mean this is a 1200 other

0:44:19computer like agreed however it is it is

0:44:21an insult to the imac not the mac pro

0:44:23yeah well it's an insult to apples

0:44:25entire line and this particular hang out

0:44:26whatever you can find a million

0:44:28different hackintosh builds you can

0:44:29build a decimal point package you can

0:44:31build it anyway you want

0:44:32and so a lot of people have been asking

0:44:33us whether we would ever do a hackintosh

0:44:36or whether this is something we've

0:44:38considered because we've been

0:44:39complaining so much about the outdated

0:44:41apple hardware and I'll speak for myself

0:44:43and say i look at this and it makes me

0:44:46sad about apples product line but I've

0:44:48never really considered making on myself

0:44:50because I don't want to have to deal

0:44:53with any of this stuff that hackintosh

0:44:54is have to deal with they have to deal

0:44:56with a lot of stuff because apple

0:44:57doesn't make an operating system for

0:45:00just sort of any sort of hardware so

0:45:01they have to carefully match their

0:45:04hardware to what apple provides drivers

0:45:06for to what they can get drivers for and

0:45:08come even harder with the driver signing

0:45:10thing and everything

0:45:11lots of features lots of major features

0:45:13just don't work on the packages they

0:45:16haven't figured out how to convince the

0:45:18operating system there to make hardware

0:45:21that is similar enough to Mac hardware

0:45:24the things work with

0:45:25killer one really stood out to me in

0:45:26this particular case off stories they

0:45:27still haven't gotten my message working

0:45:29and that's not like a minor features and

0:45:31that's a big message my message is a

0:45:33pretty like would you like to use a mac

0:45:34book by the way you can use iMessage and

0:45:36forget about all the modern stuff that

0:45:38requires like a handoff continuity or

0:45:40you know the touch ID sensor that will

0:45:42appear on on macbook someday forget

0:45:44about that stuff because there's no way

0:45:45they're gonna be able to that are going

0:45:46to get a to be able to get a secure

0:45:48Enclave from apple and stickers that are

0:45:50peacing out of stuff to work so the

0:45:52amount of things that just don't work

0:45:53then make your Mac not really a mac is a

0:45:55growing list of things and apple not

0:45:58that they're doing it to stop hacking

0:45:59doctors but Apple keeps adding their

0:46:01that list and I just I don't want to

0:46:03deal with any of that I just wanted to

0:46:04work I don't want to do a point update

0:46:06and have my machine not boot because the

0:46:07video drivers don't work anymore i don't

0:46:09have to worry about any of that stuff I

0:46:10just want a really good big fast and I'm

0:46:12willing to pay much more money for the

0:46:15privilege of someone figuring this all

0:46:17I've had time and making me and this

0:46:19would be a nice piece of hardware that

0:46:20works and is it before i get into like

0:46:22how good these boxes are and how much

0:46:25noise they might make and all the other

0:46:27than the fact that the build-it-yourself

0:46:28and like i would i would sooner but

0:46:31build myself a gaming pc then they would

0:46:34hack and Josh like gaming pc have come

0:46:35really close to building many times in

0:46:37my various states of frustration but

0:46:38hackintosh never for me Casey oh what I

0:46:43build withheld oh but you and you build

0:46:46pcs before right

0:46:47oh yeah oh yeah for a long time and

0:46:50basically up until the time I started

0:46:52using thinkpads exclusively which was

0:46:54right before i started using macbooks

0:46:55exclusively which was before I started

0:46:58using the imac I was always building

0:47:01pc's always always always always and

0:47:03I've first one so far out of the game so

0:47:06to speak like I wouldn't even know where

0:47:07to begin like I understand the

0:47:09components that are necessary for modern

0:47:10personal computer but i don't know what

0:47:13what processors are our popular these

0:47:16days I I don't know what memory is the

0:47:18right memory to choose obviously I could

0:47:20figure this out but I just don't have

0:47:23the patience the time or the energy for

0:47:25this is this is a thing especially a

0:47:27computer where I only buy one wants to

0:47:28be like 40 years i would much rather

0:47:32throw money at the problem and just

0:47:35have apple fix it for me that being said

0:47:37the whole reason we're talking about

0:47:39this is because apples doing a very good

0:47:41job of avoiding taking our money

0:47:43well not us maybe more maybe gianmarco

0:47:46and I necessarily but I mean apples

0:47:49really working hard and not updating

0:47:51things except the macbook adorable and

0:47:54to some degree the imac like you guys

0:47:56said earlier like I just what's the

0:47:58holdup

0:47:59I don't get it yeah i mean there was

0:48:02they were there was a very long span in

0:48:05my in my life where I would gladly have

0:48:07built a hackintosh i was building my own

0:48:10pcs at the time and it's just like

0:48:12building a pc with a little bit more

0:48:13hassle but you know I agree with John

0:48:16said that you know in in the era of you

0:48:19know you have driver signing now you

0:48:21have no possible I message hiccups with

0:48:23certain hackintosh setups and and and

0:48:25handoff and stuff being tricky to get

0:48:27working because the various Wi-Fi chip

0:48:29acts they do it seems like we are we are

0:48:33pretty clearly moving towards a point in

0:48:36probably the near future where

0:48:38hackintosh won't work anymore

0:48:40yeah and or at least at least enough

0:48:43features won't work on them that like

0:48:46the the trade-off between pain and the

0:48:48buttery and whatever you're saving or

0:48:51gaining by having one that might switch

0:48:53the other way because as Apple increases

0:48:56the pain in the buttery and limitations

0:48:58and everything else that eventually like

0:49:00it's not worth it anymore or at least

0:49:03for certain people won't be worth it

0:49:04anymore so I just feel like in my in my

0:49:07current my current set of priorities

0:49:10I'm able to trade money for time to a

0:49:13certain degree and when I was younger

0:49:15like when I was in college and high

0:49:16school building these pcs for myself and

0:49:18my friends like we had nothing but time

0:49:21we had very little money so it made way

0:49:24more sense then to build our own pcs and

0:49:27deal with all the massive amounts of

0:49:30headaches and time sinks and crap that

0:49:32we had to deal with two builder and PCs

0:49:34and keep them running and and keep them

0:49:36stable and keep them upgraded like it

0:49:38was a it was a massive time sink for me

0:49:40and my friends but we did it because

0:49:42again that that time money continuum the

0:49:45the balance was different for us back

0:49:46then now

0:49:48I think all of all of us involved back

0:49:50then would all just by a computer you

0:49:53know from apple and just be done with it

0:49:54and and not have to worry about it

0:49:56because quite frankly we don't have the

0:49:58time to worry about it and we do have a

0:50:00little bit of money to spend on them so

0:50:01we can do that instead so it all depends

0:50:04on like you know whether it's worth it

0:50:05to you and as the environment shifts

0:50:07whether it's worth it will shift to in

0:50:09this case like if Apple really does

0:50:13horribly neglect the mac line for longer

0:50:17for a lot longer then i will probably be

0:50:21tempted just to get more performance you

0:50:23know just like it in this particular

0:50:25case I was disappointed to see that the

0:50:28high-end consumer desktop chips that are

0:50:31beating and their platforms are being

0:50:32used in this particular article that the

0:50:34microparticle it's the exact same shape

0:50:36than it that's available in the 5k imac

0:50:39and in the highest figuration the 4

0:50:40gigahertz sky like I seven like so it's

0:50:43not this was not a case of doing

0:50:45something that apple won't sell you

0:50:47really this was more of a case of just

0:50:49getting what Apple will sell you but for

0:50:52way less money and that's cool and is a

0:50:54huge market for that I totally

0:50:56understand but I don't think the

0:50:58trade-off will be worth it to me and my

0:50:59current state of time versus money what

0:51:02would be worth it possibly in the future

0:51:04is if Apple stop selling the mac pro and

0:51:07for some reason i was ten keep

0:51:08supporting hardware and and then I can

0:51:11like I can get like an 8 or 12 or 16

0:51:14core high-end xeon workstation running

0:51:17Mac os10 an apple wants anyone that

0:51:20would be very interesting to me but

0:51:21today it's just not i don't know it's it

0:51:24did the balance for me isn't there today

0:51:26yeah I think we're going to get macbook

0:51:28pro another this is unique but I think

0:51:30we're gonna get macbook pro updates

0:51:31before the end of the year and i think

0:51:33there's a decent shot will get a stupid

0:51:35mac pro update before the end of the

0:51:37year I don't think it's dead and he said

0:51:38no fax just a guess I don't think it's

0:51:41dead but I should to go back to

0:51:43hackintosh specifically for a moment I

0:51:44when I was debating very publicly with

0:51:48you Marco whether or not i should get a

0:51:51Mac this is two thousand eight ish i

0:51:54believe and we were having this debate

0:51:56via reblogs of each other's posts on

0:51:59tumblr what I ended up

0:52:01doing was taking my then thinkpad t430 i

0:52:05believe it was and putting a hackintosh

0:52:09version of leopard i believe it was at

0:52:12the time i have that wrong and running

0:52:14it for a few days just to see if I like

0:52:15you know OS 10 and to my recollection

0:52:19Wi-Fi didn't work but onboard ethernet

0:52:21did and just about everything else did

0:52:24too

0:52:25maybe sound didn't actually don't recall

0:52:27but i remember vividly the Wi-Fi didn't

0:52:29work with some major bummer but i really

0:52:32liked it in and it was relatively

0:52:34pain-free to do I think I required as

0:52:39some version of OS 10 that had been

0:52:42prepared for this sort of use and that's

0:52:47what I used to install it and it worked

0:52:49pretty darn well and if it wasn't for

0:52:51that I probably stole about the mac

0:52:53anyway but I felt a lot more confident

0:52:55in doing so but just like you said you

0:52:57hit the nail on the head you know today

0:52:59the three of us can trade money for time

0:53:02if you will and when we were in college

0:53:04and in kids when we were building

0:53:05computers except John we had plenty of

0:53:09time to kill and not a lot of money so

0:53:11it's funny how things change

0:53:12it's not just the time to it's like

0:53:14thinking of your poor haunted imac that

0:53:17could die any second

0:53:18what you're also paying the horror that

0:53:20but also paying for is someone to blame

0:53:22mr. yeah if your computer goes wonky you

0:53:25have someone to blame and that's Apple

0:53:26if your computer continues to be walking

0:53:28continues to behave badly you can keep

0:53:30bringing it back to genius bar

0:53:31eventually replace it with an all new

0:53:32computer if it did you know it not

0:53:34that's a fun thing to do like it's still

0:53:35a pain in the butt but if you build your

0:53:37own hackintosh and it starts being wonky

0:53:39you have no one to go to you so we can

0:53:41go to apple you can't go to the your

0:53:43motherboard manufacturer you can't go to

0:53:45your GPU vendor you can't go to the

0:53:47company that made the case you can't go

0:53:48to the monitor vendor like you just got

0:53:50yourself and so packages I mean they're

0:53:53way cheaper but they're not free

0:53:55so that's you know that's potentially a

0:53:57thousand or more dollars that you spent

0:53:59on something and if it stops working or

0:54:03starts being weird in some way unless it

0:54:05is a hardware fault like oh my GPU died

0:54:07on my cpu died like it just starts being

0:54:09flaky because again it's hackintosh it's

0:54:11running you know an unsupported hardware

0:54:13configuration you're trying to

0:54:14activate the work and by the way it's

0:54:15not like I message isn't working at all

0:54:17there are these strange incantations to

0:54:19try to get it to work by faking it out

0:54:20but it's very sketchy if things start to

0:54:22act weird

0:54:23you've got no one to blame and that's

0:54:26not tenable like maybe maybe if you

0:54:28lived by yourself and you could handle

0:54:31your main computer not working or being

0:54:33flaky some of the time maybe I was like

0:54:36a secondary computer maybe you could

0:54:37handle that but in any sort of family

0:54:39environment where any other person is

0:54:41relying on that computer to be to be a

0:54:44computer to be to be able to sit down in

0:54:45front of it and like do your photos or

0:54:47whatever and and you know like to do

0:54:49stuff on that computer and it doesn't

0:54:51work and you're the one who built this

0:54:53computer and you have no one to blame

0:54:55but it's the best point you will say and

0:54:57i would love to be able to pay to have

0:55:00someone to blame for this other than me

0:55:01because you don't want to look at you

0:55:03and saying that why does this computer

0:55:05that you wasted all this time on not

0:55:08work anymore and you're like it you know

0:55:10or why does it do this weird thing or

0:55:11whatever so the odd i think of that just

0:55:15as much as like the time i would spend

0:55:16tinkering I think of being at your

0:55:18having a single company who stands

0:55:21behind the supposed functionality of the

0:55:23entire thing and I mean the entire thing

0:55:25like if if something you know if

0:55:27something is wonky about like a Wi-Fi

0:55:30works intermittently or whatever I don't

0:55:31have to prove that like the Wi-Fi you

0:55:35know chipset or whatever it is bad and I

0:55:38go that manufacturing get them to return

0:55:39replace it and plug it in and realize

0:55:41that the conflict between like the

0:55:42motherboard and this other you know like

0:55:44I don't deal with anything i just have

0:55:46to deal with a hassle it's still a

0:55:47hassle go to the apple store especially

0:55:48if you're logging a big computer with

0:55:49you still have probably go back three

0:55:51times but eventually you'll get some

0:55:53kind of satisfaction right if you built

0:55:54yourself at a certain point you're just

0:55:56like sell the parts off individually and

0:55:59try again it's it's really grim yeah i

0:56:02mean i've i've been like as I i built a

0:56:05good number of computers for myself and

0:56:07my friends throughout high school and

0:56:08college and I've been in that position

0:56:09of like something doesn't work

0:56:12especially if it's not even my computer

0:56:14usually wasn't something doesn't work on

0:56:16one of my friends computers or worse on

0:56:19a computer that somebody paid me a

0:56:20little bit of money to build for them

0:56:22and and like there's just it's just an

0:56:25endless sinkhole of

0:56:27time and possibly my own money trying to

0:56:31you know resolve this problem and

0:56:33meanwhile dealing with a very upset

0:56:35person who is very annoyed that this

0:56:38computer that they paid a good amount of

0:56:40money to even though i didn't get most

0:56:41of it but they paid good money for the

0:56:43parts and everything and I told them I

0:56:44could do it and then something goes

0:56:45wrong and i'm on the look for it sucks

0:56:48and I gladly would have paid to have

0:56:51like somebody else deal with it but at

0:56:53the time I didn't have a lot of money

0:56:54that was the whole reason I was doing

0:56:55this and there was nobody even could

0:56:57have paid to help out and it was

0:56:58horrible

0:56:59on the flip side of this mike Randall

0:57:01technology ride the biggest feature for

0:57:03me is not the fact that it's always

0:57:04cheaper imac is that he could pick any

0:57:06GPU he wanted to put in there any person

0:57:08or one that you put in a better one than

0:57:09the imac and he could put an even better

0:57:11when they're in fact he can change his

0:57:12mind two years later getting even better

0:57:14GPU and that's an option apple doesn't

0:57:16give you at all apple will give you that

0:57:17cpu they will not give you the scoop you

0:57:20or the option to put in a better one

0:57:22sounds impressive but i agree that

0:57:25without I message on this mac no thanks

0:57:29hard pass late it's it's it's this

0:57:31balance right like and I think what

0:57:33we're all saying is like we all would

0:57:35have reasons why we might want to build

0:57:37one of these things if things got worse

0:57:40as the conditions change like we might

0:57:42build a hackintosh is in three years or

0:57:44something who knows like we have no idea

0:57:46what you know what what what will hold

0:57:48but like if if your priorities are just

0:57:51very slightly different or if your needs

0:57:53are just very slightly different from us

0:57:55you could very easily fall into the

0:57:56other side of that balance and this

0:57:58could make total sense for you

0:58:00yeah yeah this list of things that don't

0:58:02work like airdrop i use a lot and I

0:58:04think I'm the airdrop unicorn because it

0:58:07always works for me i understand i have

0:58:10very good luck with a drop as well

0:58:11yeah all his audio doesn't work the

0:58:14first time you like you mentioned before

0:58:15Casey I think everything working

0:58:16installed at Purdue it's over Wi-Fi oh

0:58:18yeah an audio is that what is linux

0:58:20minor features like Wi-Fi and audio to

0:58:25work brother is true

0:58:27like what you doesn't work you have an

0:58:29uncle computers like saying my TV's

0:58:31greatest there's no sound this it's so

0:58:33true

0:58:34ideally had forgotten that audio maybe

0:58:36didn't work but

0:58:37yeah i'm looking at this list the audio

0:58:39doesn't work community in hand off to a

0:58:41continuity and handoff don't work those

0:58:42I don't use that much I message was

0:58:45working out Eric doesn't work them out

0:58:46again

0:58:47well i was already out with audio come

0:58:49to think of it but it and touch ID

0:58:50doesn't work like that's going to be

0:58:51like it

0:58:52apple just keeps accumulating these

0:58:53things I think once people get used to

0:58:55unlocking their laptop with touch ID a

0:58:57hackintosh is good it's like it's like

0:58:59having a hacked up with no Wi-Fi you

0:59:01know before Wi-Fi was a big deal just

0:59:02added on toilet seed imax RI books

0:59:04rather it's like well you know Wi-Fi

0:59:07doesn't work but who uses that a certain

0:59:08point like Wi-Fi doesn't work

0:59:09this is junk throw it away like I can't

0:59:11use a laptop without Wi-Fi is pointless

0:59:13right i touch ID and features like that

0:59:15will probably eventually feel like that

0:59:17like I'm not gonna type in my password

0:59:18every time i lock my computer that's

0:59:20barbaric and so and you can be pretty

0:59:24sure that it's going to be very

0:59:25difficult to simulate the secure Enclave

0:59:28touch ID hardware whatever that Apple

0:59:30adds their laptops even if you can

0:59:32somehow source that part from the far

0:59:35east and get installed in your

0:59:36hackintosh that's that's a hell of a

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1:01:03speaking of hacking dashes of I was

1:01:08recalling from the olden days when you

1:01:11two probably weren't born yet one of the

1:01:13original macintosh type things like in

1:01:16the early days of the matter is very

1:01:18difficult to clone at least mr. because

1:01:19you needed the mac rom was a lot of most

1:01:23of the mac toolbox was on on the ROM

1:01:25chip and that was proprietary apple you

1:01:26couldn't really buy that part and so

1:01:28it's very difficult to have any sort of

1:01:29legitimate commercial business selling

1:01:31that clones because you couldn't have a

1:01:33Mac without that rom and then on top of

1:01:34that all the other problems but there

1:01:35was one company that used to advertise

1:01:37in magazines like a legitimate company i

1:01:40think they were in Australia may be

1:01:42called outbound of trying to google for

1:01:44a while you're going to last add home

1:01:46and my recollection is they were

1:01:49basically get around the cloning by

1:01:51buying actual real apple stuff or

1:01:55requiring you to buy them or whatever

1:01:56and repackaging it so they would take

1:01:58like a mac plus mother border maxi

1:02:00motherboard and put it into kind of a

1:02:01laptop shape with the big battery and

1:02:03everything so they were very very

1:02:05expensive you weren't saving any money

1:02:06but you could buy a basically real

1:02:09mcintosh as far as the operating system

1:02:12was concerned in a case

1:02:13not made by apple simply by adding a

1:02:15tremendous amount of costs almost

1:02:17sounded like when you buy like a tuner

1:02:19car were you like just buy basic mustang

1:02:21and then add a hundred thousand dollars

1:02:22right just go ahead and start with the

1:02:24Mustang as delivered to you by Ford and

1:02:27then you just have lots of money so you

1:02:28start with a mac señor Mac plus and

1:02:30then they just take out the inside three

1:02:32packages and different things and sell

1:02:33you the new thing and then had money on

1:02:34top of that kind of like the the modbook

1:02:37people from a few years back right yeah

1:02:40similar to that but like you know going

1:02:41from a desktop computer to a laptop is

1:02:43quite a transition and they have the

1:02:45really reporting device that look like I

1:02:46don't have you guys ever saw this i

1:02:48don't think it ever caught on because

1:02:49it's pretty terrible it if you can

1:02:50imagine your spacebar replaced by a

1:02:52pencil like you know the pencil

1:02:54horizontal pencil and let you put put

1:02:56your thumb on the pencil and it as you

1:02:58roll the pencil you know just rolling it

1:03:00that makes your cursor go up and down

1:03:01and as you slide your finger left and

1:03:04right on the pencil that makes the

1:03:05cursor left and right when i was called

1:03:08ok it was not a good pointing device but

1:03:11it was it was interesting that like

1:03:12before trackpads they wanted to have a

1:03:14pointing device that didn't take up a

1:03:16lot of room so they don't have an oven

1:03:18at this point of things predates the

1:03:19oven and they don't have a trackpad it

1:03:21wasn't move that anyway so they had

1:03:22below the spacebar this whatever this

1:03:24was like what is it called iso point

1:03:28trackbar they're going to google say the

1:03:31other one was called isopods anyway it

1:03:32didn't catch on for a reason but uh

1:03:34there's a long history of people trying

1:03:37to essentially have a mac but not have a

1:03:40mac and i think everything has been

1:03:42tried including actual legitimate

1:03:44cloning which hopefully you guys do you

1:03:46don't remember or blocked out of your

1:03:47mind and that was before time as Mac

1:03:49users but I mean like all these things

1:03:50like these make sense you know like that

1:03:53crazy company was around when there

1:03:54wasn't a mac laptop the people who made

1:03:56modbook and everything that was before

1:03:58the ipad and there was no like there was

1:04:00no like Max antique basically is what

1:04:01they were trying to make land and I

1:04:03don't know if they still make them

1:04:04anyway and and hackintosh azhar around

1:04:07because there's no what everyone calls

1:04:08the x mac which is like there's

1:04:09basically no like cheap desktop tower

1:04:12mac that just expandable with regular

1:04:14slots like the mac pro used to kind of

1:04:16almost be that except it wasn't cheap

1:04:18and now we don't even have that anymore

1:04:20so you know the end so hackintosh 'as

1:04:23and all these things they serve needs

1:04:25that Apple refuses to serve

1:04:27for whatever reason whether they're not

1:04:28profitable or they're just to specialize

1:04:30in the number of people buy them or

1:04:32where they don't fit into johnny is

1:04:34Magic white room because they have too

1:04:36many ports and they have their to

1:04:37expandable and you know that they're

1:04:38useful i don't know but Apple refused to

1:04:42serve these markets you know if they're

1:04:44gonna get served somehow either going to

1:04:46get served by crappy pcs with other

1:04:49stuff or they're gonna get served with

1:04:50illegal pirated copies of OS 10 i'm not

1:04:53really sure which is worse for Apple but

1:04:55i'm guessing keeping people in the apple

1:04:56ecosystem even illegally is probably

1:04:58better for Apple long-term that's

1:05:01interesting point

1:05:02alright this is all going to resolve

1:05:03this fall when they release all the new

1:05:05hardware and and everyone will be happy

1:05:07except youtube and mac many owners will

1:05:10also be said yeah I mean it you know we

1:05:12we at least talk from this position of

1:05:14privilege that like Apple at least

1:05:15occasionally mentions our computers but

1:05:17many people who say they're in a bad

1:05:20spot

1:05:20Mac many people like you know we're

1:05:22complaining like all our computers

1:05:23haven't got updated in like two or three

1:05:25years

1:05:26Mac many people that's always their

1:05:28condition like that since the beginning

1:05:29of the mac mini it like the way they

1:05:31treat the mac mini is just insulting he

1:05:35quickly it's insulting and the last time

1:05:37the updated it took away all the best

1:05:39options and all the expandability and

1:05:41you know it's like that

1:05:43oh we have easy compared to Mac many

1:05:45people I saw someone to work the other

1:05:48day considering like ideally like I'm

1:05:50gonna get a new mac and can't really

1:05:51decide between five ham mac and mac mini

1:05:55and it dawned on me that for you know

1:05:57once again don t have to have to be

1:05:59started that regular people don't keep

1:06:00track of what the hell's inside all the

1:06:02different max as far as they're

1:06:03concerned it's like going your cargo

1:06:04ship will you know we make an SUV we

1:06:06make a couplie make a sedan and you

1:06:08don't you don't go to think like wait

1:06:10does the sedan have like a steam powered

1:06:12engine in it and the cool stuff has an

1:06:14internal combustion engine and i'm not

1:06:16aware of that like as far as user well

1:06:18it was really just like I you know you

1:06:20don't wanna buy an all-in-one computer

1:06:21and have the big expensive screen

1:06:22trapped inside of there was all the

1:06:23general reasons like but what you don't

1:06:25understand is the 5ki Mac has a sky like

1:06:27CPU and the mac mini has like a core two

1:06:29duo or the hell that thing now like

1:06:32you're you know it look on the outside

1:06:34it looks like you just you know trading

1:06:36off like form factor and price and

1:06:38everything but really you should not

1:06:40and I met many like ever just think when

1:06:42it was new you shoulda bought it and now

1:06:44you definitely shouldn't buy it and I

1:06:46don't think apple sales people are going

1:06:48to emphasize that in the store although

1:06:50it may be confused about what you want

1:06:51to Mac what are you sure you don't want

1:06:53to fuck what are you saying many yet you

1:06:55have to call someone from the back do we

1:06:57have something called a mac mini hahaha

1:06:59i mean always the macro like it's

1:07:02probably next to the big TV and they

1:07:03might have seen it all you mean that

1:07:04that's a computer all right but anyway

1:07:06how yeah it's that that's the worst part

1:07:09of this is that regular people shouldn't

1:07:12have to care about this challenge at a

1:07:13reasonable expectation they can go into

1:07:15an apple store and sort of picking

1:07:16computer based on how big they wanted to

1:07:18be how much they wanted to cost and has

1:07:21a basic understanding of like well the

1:07:22more expensive ones are better and

1:07:24faster and fancier than less expensive

1:07:25ones but not to have this massive golf

1:07:28where it's like I think i'm deciding

1:07:29between do I want to have an integrated

1:07:30screen and external screen is like know

1:07:32there are tremendous trade-offs between

1:07:34the 5ki mac mini did you really need to

1:07:37grass before you make this decision it's

1:07:38not as if they were just equivalent but

1:07:41just that the boxes are separate or

1:07:42together and that's apple's fault

1:07:45yeah I mean you know you can you can

1:07:47kind of see like throughout the course

1:07:48of apples history especially recent

1:07:50history there are certain products that

1:07:51they keep around like out of spite or I

1:07:54don't know it's like certain products

1:07:56that they not know maybe five maybe

1:07:58that's the wrong word but like certain

1:07:59products where like they kind of

1:08:01begrudgingly keep them around and you

1:08:03can tell they really don't like them and

1:08:05it's almost like this it is tense

1:08:08relationship they seem to have these

1:08:09products are just like disdain and they

1:08:12just kind of you know crap update every

1:08:14so often because they have to and you

1:08:16know it's the same way that like like

1:08:18this you know Steve Jobs famously

1:08:20demoing the motorola rokr phone and you

1:08:22could tell he just like hated this

1:08:23device and he was trying to put on a

1:08:25good face on stage and he just hated it

1:08:26to me that is how apple treats the heck

1:08:29Mickey and possibly maybe even the mac

1:08:33pro these days I don't know what time

1:08:34will tell on that one but the mac mini

1:08:36certainly that is how to treat for a

1:08:38long time where we're like they keep it

1:08:41updated because for whatever strategic

1:08:44reason or whatever like they they kind

1:08:45of have to keep offering this computer

1:08:48to solve a bunch of needs

1:08:50I guess but they they hate it so much

1:08:52and they never leave

1:08:54forget they hated every update they like

1:08:56we're gonna give a little here but then

1:08:57we're going to take away this other

1:08:58thing and we're going to make you hate

1:09:00this until you all you fools all stop

1:09:02buying it and you switch to one of our

1:09:03better computers that is honestly feel

1:09:06like it but the mac mini and I own one

1:09:07and even when i bought it i was mad

1:09:09about it and I still bought extended one

1:09:11but like I i was present on the kindest

1:09:14thing such a ripoff and so restricted

1:09:16and so it's like it's just all right so

1:09:19I I felt all that anger that Apple

1:09:21clearly has for this product that they

1:09:23hate and they occasionally cell i wonder

1:09:26what the pressures are on the mac mini

1:09:28design like is it like that every year

1:09:29the margins have to get better because

1:09:31that like that fits the the data we have

1:09:33kind of like that it does get more

1:09:35expensive and crappier like relatively

1:09:37speaking obviously it's better when you

1:09:39know what with the exception of this

1:09:40recent quad to dual core transition for

1:09:42the most part does get better but like

1:09:43it seems to me that the margins get

1:09:45better with every new version and it's

1:09:47like they kind of given up on

1:09:49hey we need to find a way to boost the

1:09:51sales of the mac mini because the sales

1:09:52are probably extremely low and not

1:09:54really going anywhere but they said but

1:09:55every year we can boost the margins by

1:09:57putting slightly cheaper stuff in it and

1:09:59removing the optical drive and you know

1:10:01doing all the stuff that we can do to

1:10:03you know like every group like you have

1:10:06to measure on something I know Apple

1:10:08famously does has it has just a

1:10:09profit-and-loss line for the entire

1:10:10company and is not measuring every

1:10:12individual department saying well mac

1:10:14mini team what is your profit loss for

1:10:15the year whatever but the products are

1:10:18changed with some kind of purpose and

1:10:21increasing or the very least maintaining

1:10:24margins seems to be a big help incentive

1:10:26in my local they doing with the mac mini

1:10:28one explanation for the evolution of

1:10:31that hardware and that product is there

1:10:33other than pressure to increase or

1:10:36maintain margins with each new revision

1:10:38and not a lot of pressure to do anything

1:10:40with it until it's in desperate need of

1:10:42replacement because it like it has never

1:10:45been a great bargain but I feel like the

1:10:47value proposition has just gotten worse

1:10:49and worse you're getting less for more

1:10:51money

1:10:51yeah and you know like that Marco you

1:10:53you know it if you need a tiny little

1:10:54head this Mac this is your only option

1:10:56and maybe that's just good business

1:10:58maybe Apple knows hey if people need a

1:11:00time we'll have this Mac this is their

1:11:02only option so just act like you know a

1:11:05little tiny bit extra every year can we

1:11:07head you know take out 10 20 bucks for

1:11:10the hardware and add 50 bucks of the

1:11:11price and do that every three years for

1:11:13the next nine years and pretty soon you

1:11:15have an eight-hundred-dollar computer

1:11:16that's as fast as a pocket calculator

1:11:18this and what did you buy your mac mini

1:11:23for its it's my I scuzzy host and it

1:11:27runs back plays to backup my synology

1:11:28and it's currently doing this live

1:11:30stream that's and it doesn't feel like

1:11:31it's also it's kind of where I put like

1:11:33utility software they don't want jumping

1:11:35up my main max so the iscsi driver was

1:11:37one of those things i also use it as the

1:11:39figure 2 scansnap software machine like

1:11:43it runs the scansnap software the skin

1:11:45types of scans to it and then it just

1:11:47six things over right network sharing to

1:11:49my real computer so it's kind of like

1:11:51this utility the setup utility functions

1:11:54it's it's kind of a home server in

1:11:56certain ways but you know not always you

1:11:58know I don't know I i'm always looking

1:12:00for like possible plans of how i can

1:12:03rearrange my home setup so i don't need

1:12:05it anymore but it is a it is still in

1:12:09use the correct answer to my question

1:12:11was a continuous integration server but

1:12:13Who am I kidding

1:12:14I know what that is vaguely is that

1:12:18every session is about the testing bots

1:12:20yes it's one of those things where like

1:12:22when I see the session about the

1:12:24reducing it sounds it looks and sounds

1:12:26really cool but it also looks and sounds

1:12:29like it requires a lot of setup of

1:12:30testing and infrastructure that I don't

1:12:32probably want to set up so someday that

1:12:35will sound really awesome to me someday

1:12:37when I have when I have a staff of

1:12:39responsible programmers working for me

1:12:41they can set that up and i will just

1:12:43enjoy the benefits of it now we're going

1:12:45to start you know start small we're

1:12:46starting unit test we're not going to go

1:12:48already continuous integration server

1:12:49right and for a single person shop you

1:12:51probably don't need that although

1:12:52underscore probably has five of them

1:12:53continually building his software and

1:12:56and running tests against them and he

1:12:58has a little dashboard that sentiment is

1:13:00watch that tells in the state of all

1:13:01applications as of the latest beta the

1:13:03software and now he's really good at

1:13:05using times he probably didn't set that

1:13:06up now we did because now he's

1:13:08applications right themselves I think

1:13:09you're right sup it just you know new

1:13:11basis of the OS come out as little

1:13:13minions automatically downloaded rebuild

1:13:15the software for it to click all the

1:13:17fix-it things and xcode to fix all the

1:13:19problems that

1:13:20and his little dashboard display and

1:13:22watch while he's out for his evening

1:13:24constitutional that tells and how many

1:13:25of his absolute successfully updated for

1:13:27iOS 9 beta 2 and you know one of them

1:13:30has one morning left he's going to go

1:13:31into Dennis computer click one button to

1:13:33fix that one laptop so as I picture his

1:13:37life don't don't tell me there's any

1:13:38different

1:13:38that's accurate I've seen a setup it's

1:13:40accurate alright thanks to our sponsors

1:13:43this week zero wonder capital and trunk

1:13:45club and we will see you next week

1:13:49now the show is over they didn't even

1:13:53mean to be in because it was accidental

1:13:56was accidental

1:14:00John didn't

1:14:02research Marco in kc wouldn't let down

1:14:06because it was accidental was accidental

1:14:10and you can find the show know today

1:14:14DP die and if your twitter follow them

1:14:22yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a

1:14:27co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at

1:14:35Syracuse

1:14:48alright so you tell me about your

1:14:54potential new record John or the

1:14:55family's potentially record anyway I

1:14:57mean it makes sense like mike has two

1:14:59ipads right i think it's 13

1:15:01that's right so you know you can have

1:15:02two Accords yeah no I don't have any

1:15:04problem with my wife's car is about 10

1:15:06years old and usually when we start

1:15:08thinking about replacing them and it's

1:15:09pretty beat up and she was thinking

1:15:11about what kind of car should you get

1:15:12and she faces the same problems that

1:15:15kind of you were talking about Casey she

1:15:16doesn't want automatic transmission her

1:15:19options are really limited we also don't

1:15:22want to spend a tremendous amount of

1:15:24money for the car for a variety of

1:15:26reasons I mean we know what just look at

1:15:28her old car and just think of your gonna

1:15:30buy 60,000 the car and it's kind of like

1:15:32that 10 years you're going to be said

1:15:34so we did you know needs to be reliable

1:15:36big be able to fit four people in and

1:15:37all of our stuff all that you know and

1:15:39we basically end up back in the same

1:15:40place we always end up with like the

1:15:42mazda 6 100 cord there's the those are

1:15:44the reasonably priced price reliable

1:15:46four-door sporty sedans you can get with

1:15:48a stick shift and she resisted that for

1:15:52awhile started coming around a little

1:15:54bit when she was looking at the new

1:15:55record start doing like the little

1:15:58builder thingy to build your own car and

1:16:00I think what's pushing her over the edge

1:16:01is the fact that they have once again

1:16:04the same thing that they had when she

1:16:07got her current car her current car she

1:16:09had a I with molly was wrong because i

1:16:12messing with the counter years but two

1:16:13thousand three or four ish Accord they

1:16:17got totaled and with the we gotta you

1:16:21know pretty good amount of money back

1:16:22from that was basically with the money

1:16:24from that car being total plus a little

1:16:25bit extra

1:16:26we bought a two thousand six ish cord

1:16:28and at that point it was the end of the

1:16:30generation like the end of that you know

1:16:32that before they replaced it with the

1:16:33super ugly one that I never bought never

1:16:35considered buying it was terrible

1:16:36that was at yeah that was like the worst

1:16:38record in a long time anyway it was the

1:16:40end of the generation and I guess they

1:16:42do this regularly i don't know this i've

1:16:43only been buying chords for you know ten

1:16:45years or so I don't know they make a

1:16:48special edition right at the end of the

1:16:51product lines that for 2017 the honda

1:16:54accord sport comes in a special edition

1:16:56which is just the honda accord sport

1:16:57which probably the sport is you get this

1:16:59work because as section if you can get

1:17:00this picture from the

1:17:01relax but the sport has like nicer

1:17:03wheels and stuff but any of the cars

1:17:05with the 650 you can't get a lot of the

1:17:07nice options so a lot of the fancy stuff

1:17:09that's in the v6 or in the high-end ones

1:17:11you just can't get with a stick shift

1:17:12with just shame so we're kind of like

1:17:13limiting ourselves but the sports

1:17:15special edition is still limited like

1:17:17the sport but has a few extra nicety so

1:17:19it comes with leather seats and heat

1:17:22seat heaters which has one for a long

1:17:24time and we haven't been able to get

1:17:25because for the most part 4 stick shift

1:17:27sedans do not come with leather seats or

1:17:29Cedars mr. BMWs like you know cheap car

1:17:31so finally here is a car down in our

1:17:34price range with these fancy options in

1:17:36it and it comes with a nice fancy wheels

1:17:39and all the little body treatments and

1:17:41all the other stuff that you want your

1:17:42accord sport to come with and

1:17:44contrasting red stitching and a little

1:17:46ball shifter thing and all sorts of a

1:17:48nice thing they're still doesn't come

1:17:50with navigation you think you still

1:17:51can't get that and the second thing that

1:17:54I think is attracting her to it is for

1:17:57the most part the accord sport comes in

1:17:59super boring colors you can get black

1:18:01white and gray

1:18:02I think the only option i love my car

1:18:04that's it you know

1:18:06honda is not particularly magnanimous

1:18:08with the color choices that's literally

1:18:10i'm looking at red right here the sport

1:18:12special edition right well so now red is

1:18:14an option but I 16 2016 right as an

1:18:17option and in the 2017 special edition

1:18:20so she wants to get a red honda accord

1:18:22sport special edition 2017 model is we

1:18:26also regressive I'm i like them but

1:18:29they're aggressive

1:18:30I know you have there anyway so this is

1:18:32probably the car she's going to get and

1:18:33I think what is making your go over is

1:18:36the seat heaters and the leather which I

1:18:38don't think she's gonna be that big of a

1:18:39fan of whether I like closets personally

1:18:40but seat heaters

1:18:41I think she will enjoy a lot and the

1:18:45fact that she's going to get in red so

1:18:47she's got she's meant by the Marco red

1:18:49bug she's at that stage in life where

1:18:50she wants to have a red card i would

1:18:52never buy sky bison black immediately

1:18:53and but she can't tolerate having two

1:18:55black accord you know I could even

1:18:56though they would look as different as

1:18:58two of my children to me to say

1:19:03yeah like that time in 2014 they're

1:19:06totally different the wheels alone how

1:19:07can you not like what I'd ever

1:19:09mistakenly get on the wrong

1:19:10I would never happen but she cannot have

1:19:13two black or just find her car she can

1:19:15pick whatever color she wants and really

1:19:17her only options are white black grey

1:19:19and red now they were black and reds are

1:19:22gonna be getting yeah yeah I don't mind

1:19:24that like the silver the the greys

1:19:27really dark but the silver I think court

1:19:28does look good and silver but silver is

1:19:29not an option for this so will this be

1:19:33better than your car

1:19:34yeah i mean like it obviously you see

1:19:37there is going to make it better and

1:19:38leather technically is better but like i

1:19:39said i think i like cloth better you

1:19:42look at me like that in your car and

1:19:43almost every way

1:19:44yeah and how do you see on that it's the

1:19:47same engine transmission and like that I

1:19:50don't think led the leather seats are

1:19:52actually an improvement especially you

1:19:54know I i know the heaters are going to

1:19:55make them more up in the wintertime but

1:19:57it is cold initially I see what the

1:19:58seats warm up before you get into the

1:20:00car and I don't really like sitting on

1:20:03leather at rather sit on cloth but

1:20:07everything else about it's not faster

1:20:08doesn't have more powerful engine I'm

1:20:11kind of jealous of her wheels because

1:20:12like Casey said they are more aggressive

1:20:14and i feel like i should have been more

1:20:15aggressive wheels but it'll be fine like

1:20:19I'm I'm happy for her to have this car

1:20:21if she likes it then that's all I care

1:20:23about

1:20:24I will continue to try to defend my car

1:20:26even as my children scrape their

1:20:27bicycles against the side of it why not

1:20:30a why not resume she wasn't interested

1:20:34in that and honestly I am still a little

1:20:36bit wary of mazda reliability there's

1:20:39such a small company compared to all

1:20:40parents car so far has been inside now I

1:20:43know they're good i could we we had a

1:20:46mazda when I was a kid there fairly

1:20:48reliable but I'm

1:20:49you know that I'm little bit wary of

1:20:51that I would still go with it that's

1:20:52what she wanted i think this Accord

1:20:54looks better than the six and honestly

1:20:57we've just always been a honda family it

1:20:58seems silly to break the streak this

1:21:00point and the other practical concern

1:21:02that's a good reason to come to pick our

1:21:04brand

1:21:04well it's silly to pick a different

1:21:06woman yeah i'll be out the I mean we've

1:21:08been satisfied with him like we you know

1:21:10it's like you stick with liking the

1:21:11restaurant that you know you like rather

1:21:12than trying a different one

1:21:14I'm and the more practical reason is we

1:21:16like to cross the dealer which whatever

1:21:18it may be silly but again it's a

1:21:19exchanging money for peace of mind or

1:21:22someone to blame or whatever and it's a

1:21:25lot easier to get 200 dealerships from

1:21:26our allison is Tomas dealerships that's

1:21:29very clever works i was gonna ask you

1:21:32something

1:21:33shoot oh it's somebody pointed out the

1:21:36chat same thing i was thinking you know

1:21:38I have no issue quite obviously with her

1:21:40getting a six-speed but if she had

1:21:43gotten an automatic i think that would

1:21:45let her get a remote start and in the

1:21:47barbaric conditions in which you live

1:21:49that would probably be really nice

1:21:51unless you would forgo the garage and

1:21:53give her the garage spot i saw the

1:21:55remote start as an option in the little

1:21:56car builder thing i didn't realize that

1:21:58probably have to be associated with the

1:22:00automatic but it's not actually

1:22:01automatic CVT is the other option that's

1:22:03the record is so like that those are

1:22:05your options and honor these dayz you

1:22:07understand what I'm being chased down

1:22:08into this one little corner of our

1:22:10harness car lineup and eventually like

1:22:12Casey you know i'll be in a situation

1:22:14where this goes away but in the meantime

1:22:15I'm gonna be buying these i really like

1:22:17my car and it's it's probably the best

1:22:21car i've owned possible exception of the

1:22:241992 civic which i really like but was a

1:22:26death trap but yeah you keep sticking

1:22:29with hot let me know how it works yet

1:22:31minor issue

1:22:32yeah there they are good cars and this

1:22:34doesn't happen every car is a deathtrap

1:22:361982 come on like it was a tiny little

1:22:38again because we didn't have the

1:22:39technology to do this

1:22:41yeah but the court is this generation

1:22:43Accord is a greater I don't know what

1:22:44the next generation will be like of

1:22:46course you're thinking of getting a cord

1:22:47and this is the last model year and

1:22:48they're going to switch it over in 2018

1:22:50get this car get 2016 2017 the whole the

1:22:53whole model line is just great looking

1:22:56I'm building my own 2017 accord today

1:22:58and sports special edition 6-speed

1:22:59manual that that's the entire model

1:23:01anyway I you're right the exterior

1:23:04colors black steel which is gray samurai

1:23:07in our red or white white orchid

1:23:09pro-white are your options your interior

1:23:12color your choices are as follows

1:23:15black whether you have three choices

1:23:17wheels and a bunch of really crappy

1:23:19exterior accessories a handful of

1:23:22equally crappy interior accessories and

1:23:25then electronic wait a second

1:23:28the most i said i'm trying started on

1:23:30there but I think you're right how can

1:23:31that be associated with the manual how

1:23:33does that even work can't be well maybe

1:23:36because neutral yeah which is not a good

1:23:38idea know how does that that's not your

1:23:40Park are a lot of people do that i agree

1:23:42with you it's barbaric but if you don't

1:23:44do that yet the remote starters your car

1:23:45lurched forward and slammed right wall

1:23:48yes seriously how can that be back

1:23:51that doesn't mean it's probably it's

1:23:53probably just a web site not realizing

1:23:54oh you can you can't have that once you

1:23:56have the CD

1:23:56yeah that's probably and those those

1:23:58stupid plastic accessories that you see

1:24:00the exterior accessories people buy

1:24:01those I see them on the road all the

1:24:03time like a look at the prices and be

1:24:05looking what they look like some of them

1:24:06i think actually do look kind of cool

1:24:07though the bodies that molding looks

1:24:09good but usually people don't buy just

1:24:11one they buy like all of them and just

1:24:13look at the prices look how much money

1:24:14they're paying yeah I don't understand

1:24:16it anyway I bring all this up to say

1:24:18that it is frustrating not only how

1:24:21cheap this car is as compared to the

1:24:23sorts of cars that i am often pricing

1:24:25which again I didn't buy my BMW new for

1:24:27that very reason but there are so few

1:24:30actual options like these are just a sec

1:24:33takuto or whatever

1:24:34these are dealt dealer-installed crap

1:24:36that's right exactly but with BMW think

1:24:40nickel-and-dime you over everything

1:24:43it is absurd how bad the nickel-and-dime

1:24:46over the dumbest crap

1:24:49in fact I don't think you even get

1:24:50leather for free how did just added the

1:24:53formats like a couple years ago I

1:24:56believe like so I hope for the first

1:24:58half of my honda buying yet to buy a

1:24:59pound fifty bucks of formats they

1:25:01finally added that in so that's a nice

1:25:03break from the norm but it's frustrating

1:25:05a few options like this again we would

1:25:06pay for navigation will pay whatever

1:25:08obscene price for navigating goes

1:25:10that's what i want you want even though

1:25:12we all know it's better on the phone and

1:25:13also the stuff she just wants to have a

1:25:14car with navigation to see what to see

1:25:16what it's like

1:25:17oh no have having a built-in is awesome

1:25:19I i will gallery like like you even

1:25:22Tesla's system is is ok but it's not

1:25:25great but I i still use it instead of

1:25:27using my phone because its built-in and

1:25:29having a built-in is awesome

1:25:31yep i completely agree I in my maps or

1:25:34well I actually happen to have a BMW

1:25:36bilby repair bill because that's what

1:25:38BMW do is they generate repair bills i

1:25:40have one in front of me which includes

1:25:42delivery date which was december of 2010

1:25:44so I have maps from 2010 and every

1:25:47single time i get in the car where I

1:25:49don't when I don't know where I'm going

1:25:50I will spend the time to plug it into

1:25:52the navigation because it is so much

1:25:54more convenient and safe to look at the

1:25:56screen that's designed for that sort of

1:25:59thing than it is to be fumbling with my

1:26:00phone and I could not agree more even an

1:26:03ancient car like mine is becoming i

1:26:06would still rather have the onboard nap

1:26:07so Tina is right to ask for it i

1:26:09completely agree man but again not an

1:26:11option like so many get something

1:26:12because this is basically the bottom of

1:26:14the line on the even though this is the

1:26:15special edition and I wonder what are

1:26:17the special edition things that are like

1:26:18her special edition had the phone carbon

1:26:21fiber trim like that was the special

1:26:23edition her wheels like the things that

1:26:25distinguish her current record as

1:26:27special edition are from the outside is

1:26:29the wheels and if you look inside the

1:26:31fake carbon fiber the replaces like the

1:26:33the trim bit and that's basically it and

1:26:36the people who got such a good deal on

1:26:38her car the people who ordered this car

1:26:40before us and then backed out

1:26:42did at add a couple of external bolt-on

1:26:45dealer accessories that I just had to

1:26:47like stomach you know like that you know

1:26:49you can't really remove them does not

1:26:50like holes in the bodywork where they

1:26:52mount them or whatever so I just accept

1:26:54those I don't really like them i would

1:26:56never bought them myself but this car is

1:26:58so cheap

1:26:58we got such a good deal on this car i

1:27:00assume we're not going to get that great

1:27:01of a deal in 2017 with the other 27

1:27:03anything i'm looking forward to is

1:27:05supposedly they made their infotainment

1:27:07system software better em and there's a

1:27:10lot of room trying to get better because

1:27:13it is so slow and so clunking so

1:27:15byzantine it took me like six months to

1:27:18learn how to do the most basic things on

1:27:19it still drives me nuts so

1:27:21I'm happy for them to have you know that

1:27:24they advertise it as you know being more

1:27:27responsive like please anything anything

1:27:29any improvement in that area that you

1:27:31can give me I will accept i'm sure they

1:27:33probably also makes all things were so

1:27:34anyway I'm hopeful vaguely helpful as

1:27:38guard but yeah I'm slowly being chased

1:27:41out of the car market by stick shifts

1:27:45disappearing and i'm being chased that

1:27:46honda's by Honda replacing all their

1:27:48transmissions with cbts hopefully by the

1:27:51time I'm really taste adamant all the

1:27:53cds will have morphed into you know

1:27:55automated manual you know dual-clutch

1:27:57transmissions and that maybe i'll be

1:27:59able to tolerate more than the horror

1:28:01that is Syria t now dct is livable like

1:28:04it if if my future or not and I if my

1:28:09future is not an electric car then and

1:28:13it's not a six-speed i will go out of my

1:28:16way to find a true dct because they say

1:28:20it is not the way i would prefer it but

1:28:21it is certainly livable do the does this

1:28:25model year support power play because

1:28:27you get the big screen even if you don't

1:28:29get like a GPS chip so to speak

1:28:31right but it's not touch screen it's

1:28:34just a display screen so car plate no

1:28:36carplay can use wheels and stuff too

1:28:38right right but there's no well there's

1:28:41kind of a wheel it's not if it it's not

1:28:45the like the BMW system where you have a

1:28:48cursor control it's not like that it's

1:28:50more like a series of buttons and

1:28:51sometimes sometimes the wheel scrolls

1:28:53but that's it i'm gonna even like a

1:28:54d-pad kinda think i'm pretty sure

1:28:56carplay work with all sorts of

1:28:57combinations of these control schemes

1:28:59you know intentionally harm does support

1:29:01carplay so maybe it works but really

1:29:03it's not even the d'pad it's not even a

1:29:04five-way thing it is literally a cluster

1:29:06of buttons one called menu one called

1:29:08back and there's a button and there's a

1:29:11wheel the only thing we all those move

1:29:12the selection up and down but mostly

1:29:14hitting menu back and settings to try to

1:29:16navigate and display because some

1:29:18navigation options are not available

1:29:19this particular thing is displayed so it

1:29:21is a terrible interface

1:29:23well when Mark when I and a couple of

1:29:26friends of ours went to cupertino and

1:29:29facebook when we were out in California

1:29:31we rented a mercedes GL 45 which is a

1:29:34truly lovely

1:29:35cv like it's certainly not my kind of

1:29:37car not the sort of thing I would want

1:29:39to drive but darned if it wasn't really

1:29:41nice

1:29:42that being said I I mean I Drive has its

1:29:46problems it's very opinionated and it's

1:29:48it's a little bit weird although i've

1:29:51come to absolutely love it and I drivers

1:29:53BMW system and drives great

1:29:56yeah whatever they call the Mercedes

1:29:58system it is unbelievably bad this was

1:30:03I would assume this was like a 90,000

1:30:05our truck or something like that

1:30:06whatever was it was expensive maybe

1:30:0790,000 was expensive and it was

1:30:10beautiful in so many ways but this

1:30:13infotainment system was awful just

1:30:17unbelievably bad i'm guessing they

1:30:20probably just didn't give it a name out

1:30:21of mercy that it's called command all

1:30:24caps

1:30:24yeah but they'll name side I just I

1:30:28can't handle it was so unbelievably bad

1:30:32just indescribable a bad yeah there was

1:30:35there was a time I I about a year ago I

1:30:38i rented i was a car rental place for on

1:30:41a trip and I had to rent a four-door

1:30:42sedan and there was a mercedes e

1:30:45something-or-other that was available

1:30:47for a little bit more like okay sure

1:30:48i'll do that and it was a great pleasure

1:30:51to drive that car in many many ways but

1:30:53it had the same system and my god like

1:30:56it it's like using Gauss like it just

1:30:59it's like what year is this and how

1:31:01expensive is this car and you have this

1:31:03system in here like it's it's

1:31:06impressively bad

1:31:08yeah so if you go to automobiles honda

1:31:11com / accord hyphen sedan and if you

1:31:15scroll down

1:31:16how did I get here of course you can't

1:31:18link to anything on the stupid page if

1:31:22you scroll down there's eventually a

1:31:23section where it says cockpit

1:31:25convenience or accessories if you click

1:31:27accessories then there's a button for

1:31:29apple carplay where it says it is

1:31:31standard on EXT XL EXL v6 and touring

1:31:34models which i assume is not the sport

1:31:36model which means no God's it means no

1:31:39stick that we like you can get the the

1:31:41stick in the LX and we looked at that

1:31:43like you can buy a non-sport one and you

1:31:46get a few different options but you get

1:31:47worse looking wheel

1:31:48so for me that's the deal-breaker DX DX

1:31:51Elliot and EXL v6 and touring those are

1:31:54your only options

1:31:55yeah the the LX is the bottom of the

1:31:57bottom of the line they got rid of the

1:31:58excess and kind of clever thing that

1:32:00Honda did in its naming used to use to

1:32:03have a love letter system for like the

1:32:05trim levels right index was always the

1:32:07bottom like are our Civic was the DXY

1:32:09only had one side mirror on it like yeah

1:32:11right

1:32:12I still can't believe that was legal for

1:32:14a long time yeah that's very tiny car I

1:32:17i think they basically retired the DX

1:32:20moniker because it became such a like

1:32:22you know an anti status symbols like oh

1:32:24you got the super cheap one right and so

1:32:26now the bottom is just a lie only do is

1:32:28shift letters like the LX is basically

1:32:29the DX the same thing like you know no

1:32:32body colored side mirror is they don't

1:32:34do one more anymore but it's a really

1:32:36cheap but yeah that the sport is a step

1:32:38up from the LX so you know you can get

1:32:41the LX and the pressures you can get the

1:32:43Alex with a stick and you can get more

1:32:45options a few more options on the Alex

1:32:47even though it is supposedly the lesser

1:32:48model because the sport is like oh you

1:32:50don't want those things you want

1:32:51everything just to be sport is like no

1:32:52will you no I would have taken a seat

1:32:54heaters in my car if they were an option

1:32:56but they weren't an option