0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 176. Today's show is brought to you by Sane Box,
0:00:14Anchor and Ting. From Overcast London, my name is Myke Hurley from, I'm assuming probably sunny
0:00:23Italy, Rome. We have Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico.
0:00:27Ciao Myke, it's not sunny but it's early so partially right high.
0:00:31It's got to be at least warm-ish, right?
0:00:33Surely.
0:00:34Yeah, it's not too bad.
0:00:36And the only reason I'm doing this is so I can announce from icy, snowy, frozen Memphis,
0:00:42Tennessee, Mr. Stephen Hackett.
0:00:45It's a real scene over here.
0:00:46It's like I've got forages of snow in my yard and I don't know what to do with it.
0:00:49So I'm just going to sit there.
0:00:51I heard that your kids are never going back to school ever again.
0:00:54Yeah, they're on day five of a long weekend.
0:00:57It's not great. They need to go back to school.
0:01:02I don't know. For them, this is pretty good.
0:01:04Oh, they're having a ball. My to-do list is very unhappy. But that's fine.
0:01:08Yeah.
0:01:09It's fine. We have follow-up, and we have some topics, and we have some ads. It's
0:01:16a pretty normal week on Connected. I mean, that's, I guess, what I'm getting at.
0:01:20It's exciting. Exciting. Exciting stuff. Yeah. Okay.
0:01:23So we're gonna start with follow-up and then we'll do those other things.
0:01:28First point of follow-up this week is several people pointed out that the domain "mike.zone"
0:01:33is for sale, but I don't remember the joke.
0:01:37What is this?
0:01:38I don't know.
0:01:39What happened?
0:01:40I don't remember.
0:01:41What is a "mike zone"?
0:01:43Maybe, I don't know.
0:01:44It's like a "senile zone" but...
0:01:46But for me, yeah, it's my own zone.
0:01:49You're in my zone.
0:01:50So anyways...
0:01:51You're all gonna be in my zone this year.
0:01:52It's still for sale.
0:01:54Should we buy it? If people told us it seems like an important event that we shouldn't forget.
0:01:59The thing is now, at least one of us has to buy it because we're talking about it.
0:02:05So it has to be purchased at this point.
0:02:0830 bucks.
0:02:08Otherwise somebody else is gonna go, "Oh, $30?"
0:02:11Myke.Club is only $5.
0:02:14I want to join the Myke Club.
0:02:18Myke.Website. 25.
0:02:20Very exclusive club.
0:02:21We have to buy all of these. We need to stop talking about this.
0:02:24Myke.mom?
0:02:25We should create a database of all the jokes and stupid things we say so that we can keep track of them.
0:02:32I feel like that's a Kyle job.
0:02:34The real takeaway here is that we're old and don't remember why this is funny.
0:02:40But I had like four emails about it.
0:02:42Yeah, speak for yourself.
0:02:44Myke.webcam is $709.
0:02:48I want to watch the Myke.webcam.
0:02:51I'm pretty confident nobody else is gonna buy that one. I did just have to drop $60 in
0:02:56domain purchases
0:02:58So really did it?
0:03:00Yeah, well because we mentioned three very specific ones and if I don't buy them somebody else is gonna
0:03:06Yeah, them and we've been mentioned on the show if you buy
0:03:09Myke dot webcam, please. Let me know and we will feature you on the show last week
0:03:15we were talking about the potential for a
0:03:17redesign of the Apple watch and Norm wrote in
0:03:20to say that they hope that Apple keeps compatibility with the existing
0:03:25watch bands and straps. I'm curious
0:03:28how long you guys think they should do this? I mean the watch has been out now
0:03:32what
0:03:32three years? Somewhere in there?
0:03:36Would it be reasonable for them to to redesign it and break compatibility with the
0:03:41straps or do you think that that's a big no-no?
0:03:43I don't think the
0:03:46the bands are keeping the Apple Watch
0:03:49innovation behind. I don't think the current situation with the bands is like with the
0:03:5530 pin dock connector before they switch to lightning. I'm pretty confident that they
0:04:00will stay around for a while. I cannot imagine that those tiny connectors and the thickness
0:04:10of the band is keeping Apple from changing the design of the watch. So I think, especially
0:04:16because there's a collector's mindset about the current Apple Watch bands.
0:04:23I think they will be around for the foreseeable future.
0:04:26I just don't know what they would have to do in a redesign to break compatibility with
0:04:31the straps.
0:04:32I guess they could change the width, but those seem like pretty standard sizes.
0:04:35But even if the watch was radically thinner, you're not going to eat into the space where
0:04:40the bands go for a while.
0:04:42So I just don't see it being a problem at any point in sort of the realistic future.
0:04:50The chat room is recommending that if they do it, maybe they offer a dongle so you could
0:04:54convert your old watch straps to the new body.
0:04:56I mean that seems reasonable.
0:05:01My thinking on this is eventually this will happen, right?
0:05:07And I guess if you want to make it thinner, like if what you're really wanting to do is
0:05:12make it thinner than maybe that you would need to do this right like to slim the overall
0:05:18profile of the watch down I don't know right but that would be my assumption of why you
0:05:22why they could potentially look to change this at some point but I am a person who owns
0:05:29lots and lots of watch bands I have bought many watch bands and my feeling on this is
0:05:34like if they do it I'm not going to be like over the moon but I accept that this is going
0:05:39to happen. Like if this year Apple did this, I would be like, man, but okay. Right? Like
0:05:46I've had three of these now, or is it four? How many watches has there been? I get confused
0:05:52now because of the series numbers. Technically four, but it's been three years.
0:05:58All right. So I've owned three of them. Right. So my thinking is after three, if they changed
0:06:03it, like I would kind of understand like some point will change. My thinking of this is
0:06:08I know that maybe people don't tend to buy tons of phone cases, but it's a similar kind
0:06:14of thing to me.
0:06:15Like I will over the life of an iPhone maybe buy a couple of cases for it either because
0:06:20one's broken or I like a new color.
0:06:22Like I just bought the orange one because I really like the color.
0:06:26And I know that eventually this phone's dimensions will change and those cases won't fit anymore.
0:06:32And I guess the bands are a similar thing.
0:06:33At least that's kind of the way that I'm trying to position it in my brain.
0:06:37Two thoughts. The first one is that we're going to get feedback from people who say,
0:06:42"Well, if you buy the stainless steel band, that's not really comparable to the sport
0:06:46band for the Apple Watch." Because the cost, you know, you're spending hundreds of dollars
0:06:51or euros on that band, which I understand. But you can also choose to spend hundreds
0:06:56of dollars on an iPhone case if you want to, right? Like, the choice is yours.
0:06:59True, true if you want a diamond encrusted, yeah, iPhone case, totally.
0:07:07But what I can see happening first is some new Apple Watch bands that are not compatible
0:07:14with old watches.
0:07:16That I can see happening first.
0:07:18Rather than Apple changing the design of the Apple Watch band altogether, I can see how
0:07:26in the near future, we'll get a new Apple Watch and new bands that can only be used
0:07:31on the new watches, instead of saying "I'm gonna buy the new band and I'll use it on
0:07:36my Series 2."
0:07:37How would that happen though? Because if the Kinect is the same, then... okay. We're just
0:07:43imagining here.
0:07:45Like an extra pin or... because I can see Apple moving, for example, into the direction
0:07:49of smart bands that have some technology inside of them.
0:07:55you know yeah that that makes more sense yeah like that's that's a way in which I
0:08:00could imagine that they offer a band that doesn't work with other devices
0:08:03like it because it doesn't have any smarts in it or whatever but yeah but
0:08:07I think it was a good a good thing to talk about right because this is a thing
0:08:12that hasn't happened I think we were all a little bit surprised when the second
0:08:17watch like it all worked okay and then it continued so I think is this gonna be
0:08:22how it always is, I kind of doubt it, but it's kind of about when and how they do
0:08:26make that change. There was something that I wanted to mention because I was
0:08:30kind of just poking around on Apple's website today as I was thinking about
0:08:34some stuff for the show and I stumbled across the AirPower map, right? Now I
0:08:40don't recall, Stephen you may not have a better memory for this, if Apple ever
0:08:45gave any kind of time frame for AirPower when it was introduced? They said at the
0:08:50time all they said was next year which would be 2018.
0:08:54Cool so that's what the website says right now so like they stuck to that. I'm
0:08:59kind of just wondering like when like when is when are we gonna see this
0:09:04product like I would assume soon?
0:09:08How soon is 2018? That's your question. I don't know I was under the impression that there was going to be
0:09:20some kind of, not necessarily Apple event, but like an Apple release week of some kind,
0:09:27where sometime in March, for example, we got a bunch of press releases from Apple with,
0:09:33you know, new announcements. Maybe they could go together with an iOS 11 update, because
0:09:38in theory we should also be getting the iOS 11 update with the battery stuff, which I
0:09:45I assume it's going to be some kind of 11.3.
0:09:48That's the usual modest size update that Apple does before they go into DC.
0:09:55I mean, they did it one time, it was a modest update.
0:09:59It's not a pattern, I don't think, but...
0:10:01Well, last year, we got Fanman AirPods.
0:10:05It tends to be bigger than...
0:10:09It's not groundbreaking, but it tends to be bigger.
0:10:11Come on, it tends to be bigger than the ones before.
0:10:14I think that is a pattern at this point.
0:10:17So I would be surprised if we don't get 11.3 with...
0:10:21I'm not saying that the ground have a redesign, but of major features like Split View is now
0:10:26totally different, but...
0:10:28Dark mode!
0:10:29No, that's not gonna happen.
0:10:31So anyway, I think there could be an iOS update and a few press releases and Apple can announce
0:10:41a bunch of things without doing an event.
0:10:44So maybe it's there.
0:10:45Well at the same time, coming in April.
0:10:49Yeah okay, that makes sense.
0:10:53I think it would be really nice if they could release it with the battery thing.
0:10:56Just like get the battery press release today.
0:10:59That would be kind of fun.
0:11:00I'm still not interested in AirPower.
0:11:02I know that you are Federico because I know that you're all in on that sweet sweet wireless
0:11:06charging lifestyle.
0:11:07Steven, are you wireless charging?
0:11:09Right now my phone is on the Mofi.
0:11:11Are you as a person?
0:11:12Yeah.
0:11:13Are you sitting on a cheat chair right now?
0:11:15I am. It's tingly.
0:11:17Yeah, I've got the Mophie charger.
0:11:19I've got one on my desk and one on my nightstand.
0:11:21And yeah, I'm a big fan.
0:11:23The only time I plug my phone into anything is if I want to charge it in my car.
0:11:28And then I feel like it's 1830.
0:11:31It's really nice. I'm a fan.
0:11:33But I understand why you wouldn't be because plugging something in is obviously super simple.
0:11:40already have a bunch of chargers, you gotta buy something to do wireless charging, it's
0:11:43not as fast if you have a fast charger, you have to have it lined up right. There's lots
0:11:46of cons to wireless charging, but I generally am liking it. I think there's something wrong
0:11:52with me. Like I just... Oh, I mean, definitely. But... I mean plenty of things, but not this
0:11:57one. Not this. Because I just feel like so many people that I know are just like "Oh
0:12:01yeah, I love this wireless charger." Maybe the problem is that I was a person who genuinely
0:12:06really really liked their already existing docks. Yeah. That. Yeah. That like, honestly
0:12:12I don't like the idea of just placing my phone loose onto some pad. Like it's just not, that's
0:12:18just not what I want to do. So maybe that's my problem. Maybe. We have some scheduling,
0:12:24some very exciting scheduling information to give to the connected listener, Stephen.
0:12:29Yes we do. So right now we're recording this on Tuesday mornings. Starting next
0:12:36week we'll be streaming on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. Eastern and the show will be up
0:12:43shortly thereafter on Wednesday afternoons. So we'll be a day later we'll
0:12:47be on Wednesdays now starting next week. Today is our last Tuesday show so so
0:12:53there you go that's the announcement. You've been announced. I would just like to
0:12:57apologize to people. I know that this stuff can be difficult because I know
0:13:00like a lot of people plan commutes and stuff to like the shows that they're
0:13:05gonna listen to on those days so I know it's disruptive to make a change like
0:13:10this but sometimes these things have to happen so you will now hear us I
0:13:16guess on Wednesday commutes or Thursday commutes depending on your time zone
0:13:20would be would be my assumption as opposed to your Tuesday or Wednesday. We
0:13:24love you very much and we appreciate your understanding. Is that all good?
0:13:29Yeah. Did I give the official... It sounds... I feel better. Okay great.
0:13:33That's good then. Today's show is brought to you by SaneBox. Look, I bet if you're
0:13:37listening to this there is something that you don't like about email. It could
0:13:41be your client, it could be your service, it could be that frankly you just get
0:13:44too much of it. That's why you need to try SaneBox because wouldn't it be
0:13:48lovely if you could just delete everything? It's not really practical to
0:13:52do that, but it'd be really nice. So, because you know, if you just went Ctrl-A and archive,
0:13:58you're going to be deleting some important stuff, stuff that you actually do have to
0:14:01deal with, which is, but the problem is, one of the huge problems of email is all the stuff
0:14:05is mixed together. The stuff that you want to deal with and the stuff that you don't
0:14:08want to deal with, they all look exactly the same. And at a glance, it's super difficult
0:14:13to try and decipher which messages need your attention. So you can't delete everything
0:14:17because there might be some important stuff. So wouldn't it be nice if all of your email
0:14:21could be pre-sorted for you before it even hits your inbox.
0:14:23That's what SameBox does.
0:14:25They sort through your email and move all of the trivial stuff
0:14:27to different folders.
0:14:28So only the messages that you want in your inbox are the ones that you need.
0:14:32And the great thing is that it works seamlessly with your current system
0:14:36and with any app.
0:14:38One of the best features of SameBox is called the black hole.
0:14:40So if you get a bunch of emails every now and then from lists
0:14:43that you can't seem to unsubscribe from, all you do is you just drag
0:14:47or move that email, that sender into the black hole,
0:14:50and you will never hear from that person again.
0:14:53With SaneBox, you can also set up email reminders,
0:14:55snooze your email, and so much more.
0:14:57Stephen, I know that you are a SaneBox user
0:14:59and have been for a little while.
0:15:00Can you tell me one or two of your favorite features?
0:15:03- Yeah, I know you are not an email snoozer, Myke,
0:15:07but I am sometimes, but I like to use
0:15:10the built-in Mail.app.
0:15:12I don't particularly care for many third-party mail clients,
0:15:16but things like snoozing stuff you lose
0:15:18if you use the first-party app,
0:15:19But SaneBox has some really cool folders,
0:15:24like SaneTonight, SaneTomorrow, SaneNextWeek.
0:15:27And I can move a message into one of those folders,
0:15:29and then whenever that time comes around,
0:15:31so tomorrow or tonight or next week,
0:15:34that email is put back in my inbox.
0:15:35And I can even control what it does
0:15:38when it comes back in my inbox.
0:15:39I can say, go back with the original time it came in,
0:15:42put it at the top of my inbox as if it's new.
0:15:45You get a lot of control,
0:15:46but I get to use the built-in default mail client,
0:15:49I want to use and so SaneBox gives me the power user stuff that people enjoy
0:15:55elsewhere but I get to do it the way that I want to and I'm a big fan. I'm
0:16:00gonna snooze something right now as I'm talking. See? Snoozed. That's excellent.
0:16:03Shouldn't be in your email but what are you gonna do? To help you get a little
0:16:07more organization in your inbox we have worked with SaneBox to get you a great
0:16:11deal. Just go to SaneBox.com/connected and you'll get a two week
0:16:14free trial and an extra $25 credit just because you listen to this show. You
0:16:19You don't have to give me your credit card information or anything like that to try it
0:16:22out so unless you decide to buy it it's when you put it in so you've got nothing to lose.
0:16:26Check it out today and get your email finally under control. That is S A N E B O X dot com
0:16:31slash connected sanebox.com slash connected our thanks to Sanebox for their support of
0:16:36the show. So panic, panic is you don't have to. It's okay. Everything's calm. It's not
0:16:43the best way to begin.
0:16:45at the disco. I like those guys. I did too. That one debut album. Man, I listened to that
0:16:52album so much. I haven't, I mean, it may be, I just haven't listened to it, but that first
0:16:56album, I listened to that album like a billion times.
0:16:59Do you remember the title, "A Fever You Can't Sweat Out"?
0:17:02Oh wow. What a great, just great album.
0:17:05If your computer has a problem at a party, is it a kernel panic at the disco?
0:17:09Why do we still do a podcast with Stephen?
0:17:19Because he is the keeper of the follow-up and the explainer of the old things. So, Panic,
0:17:24the wonderful app developer, announced a couple of weeks ago that they were killing off, kind
0:17:32of, I guess, yeah, killing off Transmit for iOS. Well, I mean, it's not like that they're
0:17:38coming in and ripping it off our phones but like they're just not gonna they're
0:17:41just not gonna develop it anymore probably it seems most likely.
0:17:45Steven can you give us a summary like what's what is happening here? So
0:17:50transmit of course is an FTP client it's been around to the max since the
0:17:54beginning of time and that transmit or panic had an iOS version of transmit and
0:18:00basically they're doing a couple of things they're suspending the sale of
0:18:05transmit that may have actually already happened. I haven't looked Kota and
0:18:08prompt for iOS to other apps are doing are still going. Basically, what this blog
0:18:12post boils down to is that transmit for iOS did not make enough money to cover
0:18:20its own development costs and panicked I think to their credit is unwilling to
0:18:27sell something that they can't actively develop so it could run forever with
0:18:31just maintenance updates, but they feel like that's not doing their customers justice.
0:18:36And so they are pulling the app from the App Store. The app will still work, assuming until
0:18:41iOS, you know, some future release breaks it, but it is effectively at the end of its
0:18:51life. They said that it made about $35,000 in revenue in 2017. That's not enough for
0:18:59them to even pay somebody half time to to develop it and they believe the app
0:19:04needs a full-time developer at least. Because Transmit 5 on the Mac got a
0:19:10bunch of new stuff and that has not made it down to the iOS version. They seem
0:19:19unwilling, I think is the word I want to use, to entertain other business models.
0:19:25So they talk about what would transmit to for iOS look like like a paid update. They don't think that's
0:19:30the answer
0:19:32They don't seem to think that you know
0:19:36Subscription is the answer even though I think we're talking about that and they said sort of the last thing here is that the files app
0:19:43does a lot of file management stuff and
0:19:47that
0:19:49Transmit had a lot of overlap with that which I actually don't really agree with because the files app doesn't have like sftp
0:19:56Connections and that's what transmits bread and butter is so what is for yeah, so like yeah
0:20:01I mean I get the point I get what they're trying to say
0:20:03But the one feature that people used it for is the one feature the files that doesn't have right right which is
0:20:09FTP stuff and so it's it's you know it's going away and in typical panic fashion
0:20:15They've done a really good job of outlining their case and very openly as well. Yeah, I really respect panic like this is a sidebar
0:20:21I really respect panic
0:20:22They've been in Apple software for a long time and they are just very straightforward with their users in a way that a lot of developers
0:20:29Don't have the luxury to be and I just I really respect those guys
0:20:33They did have one last update that made it
0:20:37Support the iPhone 10 which is nice and
0:20:41They're going to keep the syncing so you can sync your favorites from the Mac to iOS
0:20:45That is all going to continue to run and so if you even though the app is gone if you add an FTP connection
0:20:53To the Mac app it'll sync over to your iPad
0:20:56So they are keeping support
0:20:59They are offering customers who purchase in the last 60 days
0:21:03All they've says they're offering them support this Apple doesn't
0:21:08give them the ability to provide a refund but it seems like they want to help those customers out.
0:21:12So yeah, I think that's the news that you know this app that you know,
0:21:17clearly not a lot of people but some people rely on is it's going away and that's that's the story.
0:21:23So one question that can't be avoided here is what does this say about the iOS ecosystem?
0:21:30Like does this mean Federico Vittucci
0:21:33that
0:21:35professional applications have no home on iOS?
0:21:38No, I disagree with that. I think it's been a struggle and I think what we're seeing now,
0:21:48and I think we will continue to see this unfortunate trend, is some of these apps, like Transmit,
0:22:00that tried to bring Pro features to iOS and to the iPad before Apple even believed in
0:22:08Pro software on iOS and the iPad Pro.
0:22:11These apps seem to me like they are struggling to adapt to the times and of course they're
0:22:17not generating enough revenue to justify continued development.
0:22:22And I think Transmit will not be the first to be abandoned.
0:22:28I think we will continue to see this kind of news, unfortunately, over the past couple
0:22:35of weeks and months. And there's something to be said about the fact that Panic -- I
0:22:43love them. It's a company that I highly admire and respect. But when it comes to transmit
0:22:50the app itself on iOS, it leaves a lot to be desired, especially when it comes to comparing
0:22:57transmit on iOS to transmit on the Mac.
0:23:00The features are different.
0:23:01There's several missing, for example, the connections
0:23:05that you can set up on the Mac.
0:23:06You cannot use those on iOS.
0:23:09Services that you can configure on the Mac,
0:23:11they are not supported on iOS.
0:23:13And the most annoying limitation, I think,
0:23:16is the lack of support for iOS 11 features.
0:23:19There's no drag and drop between multiple apps, which
0:23:21would have been ideal for transmit,
0:23:23so you can upload documents and files by dragging them
0:23:26from any other iPad app, and also there's no files integration. And the argument that
0:23:31files replaces transmit is kind of... I don't really believe that argument, because as Steven
0:23:37mentioned, you don't have any FTP features in files, you don't even have basic zip supporting
0:23:43files, so it's not really a replacement for transmit. That said, and there's also to consider,
0:23:50I would say, I would mention the overlap with Coda.
0:23:54I'm taking a look at, ideally tomorrow on Wednesday,
0:23:57I have my next iPad Diaries column
0:24:00about transmit and FTP clients on iOS.
0:24:03And there's a lot of overlap with Coda,
0:24:05which is the other app by Panic.
0:24:07It basically does everything that transmit can
0:24:09with the exception of a couple of details.
0:24:13And of course, Coda does more.
0:24:15And I think I say in the article
0:24:17that Coda feels like transmit deluxe,
0:24:19because in addition to file management,
0:24:21it also does code editing.
0:24:22But so aside from the missing features
0:24:26and the fact that transmit never adapted to iOS 11
0:24:29and the overlap with Coda,
0:24:30there's something to be said about
0:24:32these transformational change to the App Store.
0:24:35I feel like a whole generation of pro apps
0:24:39that came before subscriptions,
0:24:41that came before the new App Store,
0:24:43came before the iPad Pro,
0:24:45those are, and if they don't have the resources
0:24:48justify we want to continue investing on this product, they will struggle and they will
0:24:56be discontinued.
0:24:57And this is, when it comes to making Pro software that didn't work before, that's totally on
0:25:03Apple because you could argue that Apple didn't believe in the iPad as a professional platform
0:25:07and in iOS as a platform for professional software soon enough.
0:25:11They waited those couple of years where on podcasts and on tech blogs we were all saying
0:25:17Apple should really pay attention to these companies that are making Pro software, but
0:25:20they should give those developers the tools to sell Pro software.
0:25:25This is the consequence.
0:25:26Two years later, we're seeing these companies and these developers from indie developers
0:25:30and from smaller companies like Panic, which is smaller by comparing to Adobe, but it's
0:25:36still a bigger company in the scene.
0:25:39We will continue to see, I'm afraid, this kind of news, that apps that launched in 2013,
0:25:44when we were all saying Apple please pay attention to these developers now they
0:25:49are going to be discontinued because they cannot justify major upgrades for
0:25:54iOS 11 and new form factors or new iPads. I hear what you're saying and I
0:26:02don't necessarily disagree with it but I do think apps like Transmit by
0:26:11companies like panic if they can't make it work on the iPad I do think that is
0:26:17that may not say much about the viability of pro apps like on an
0:26:22individual basis but I do think it says something pretty bad about the the iPad
0:26:29ecosystem on the whole and I think specifically the types of users that the
0:26:34iPad has attracted. So an FTP client is not the most exciting thing in the world.
0:26:42It's actually kind of the opposite of that, right? It is like apps like this
0:26:46are only used by people who are, you know, have nerdy things to get done. You know,
0:26:53they're uploading files to a server, they're building websites. I used
0:26:57transmit on a pretty regular basis. I do it on the Mac all the time. I do it on my
0:27:01some to upload our finished podcast files to our host. Those types of users
0:27:08are on the Mac where Transmit has been for sale for a long time. And I'm not
0:27:13saying like Transmit's the only flag here, like it's the only thing to look at, but I
0:27:17do think there's a conversation to be had that those types of users aren't
0:27:22adopting the iPad as quickly as some people would like them to. And maybe
0:27:28Transmit would work two or three years from now if Apple spends the next two to
0:27:32three years really pushing the iPad forward. We're going to talk some more
0:27:36about that later on in the show, but I just can't help but think that if a
0:27:41nerdy app like Transmit can't make it, that that does say something about the
0:27:47type of users that the iPad has been able to attract. I don't think what it
0:27:51says is necessarily positive. I think the problem is there is a problem in looking
0:27:57at this app in like a microcosm because there are, I expect, a ton of different
0:28:05parts to this discussion that we are not privy to and could kind of like taint
0:28:13this. One of these is the fact that transmit for the Mac is $45 so it's like
0:28:19four to five times more expensive than the iOS version. Now whatever you can say
0:28:26to that is whatever you say to that right like whether you say like oh it's
0:28:31because of the race to the bottom blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah but
0:28:35my point more is what panic requires as a company for something to be successful
0:28:45is potentially different to what Jane Smith the developer requires to be
0:28:54successful? Sure. And I think that there are a bunch of problems in being like
0:29:01this didn't work for Panix so it can't work or like this means that Pro apps
0:29:06on iOS are dead because like we are grading this completely based upon
0:29:12Panix internal metrics for success. But at the same time what other
0:29:18metric is there? Like I can't force my metric of success on another company.
0:29:23Well, the fact that there are four other apps that Federico has mentioned that do these
0:29:27services that are updated on a regular basis.
0:29:30And they're all significantly not as nice as Transmit was.
0:29:33Yeah, but that's the priorities thing, though, right?
0:29:37But the thing is, nice in what way?
0:29:40Do you just mean in design?
0:29:42Or do you mean in features?
0:29:43Yeah, both.
0:29:44Right?
0:29:45But the thing is, maybe your FTP app doesn't need to be beautiful.
0:29:51I mean, maybe not, but if the iPad wants to attract these types of users who are already
0:29:58on the Mac, then this is damaging to that.
0:30:05Because people who buy a $45 FTP client, like look, you can go download free ones.
0:30:10Like Finder can do some of this for you on the Mac.
0:30:14You can use your whatever hosting service web interface, right?
0:30:17Like you don't have to go and spend 45 bucks on transmit.
0:30:19Panic has made a business of it and very successful over the years and yes it's
0:30:23an expensive app and it was expensive on iOS and they clearly have a threshold
0:30:28that an indie developer may not have because they have a staff and a fancy
0:30:32office we've all been there but I guess what I'm saying and I am fully aware
0:30:39that like the danger in this argument is making about this this one app and and I
0:30:43hope I'm not falling into that because I don't want to but I do think that if if
0:30:48If the iPad wants to attract these types of users, it needs these types of apps.
0:30:54And for a bunch of complicated reasons, Panix pricing is definitely one of them.
0:30:59But you wrote off the race to the bottom, I don't think you can do that.
0:31:03And even on the iPad, this app…
0:31:05No, I wasn't writing it off.
0:31:06I was just saying that that's not something worth getting into because we've spoken
0:31:10about that a billion times.
0:31:11Like there's no point talking about it.
0:31:12Yeah, but it is a factor.
0:31:13We'll just leave it at that.
0:31:15But that's why it's not worth talking about.
0:31:17can all agree upon the fact that that is a problem, right? But it's not worth discussing.
0:31:21You can get this wrong on both sides. I think we're, I think we're trying to find that middle
0:31:25ground. Like it is worrisome. But I agree with Federica, this isn't like the death blow
0:31:30to pro apps. But at the same time, like I don't think this can just go by as like, oh,
0:31:35well, you know, it didn't work for one company. Because I do think this points to like fundamental
0:31:39problems with the with Mac power users, not the podcast, but the people like those types
0:31:47of users adopting something like the iPad as a full-time tool because those users who
0:31:56expect this sort of app and this sort of polish, if that's not there on the other platform,
0:32:02then the other platform doesn't look as nice to them.
0:32:04And that may be shallow or that may be silly, but I do think it's a real factor.
0:32:10And I'm just, I mean, part of this is I'm just sad because I used it and I know a lot
0:32:13of people who do and it's a bummer that it's going to go away at some point.
0:32:16The last thing that I want to say about this is there seems to me as if there's a common
0:32:30aspect between some long-time Mac developers when they approach iOS.
0:32:39I've seen apps do this before and maybe to an extent panic fell into this problem as
0:32:45as well, that they try to apply the same lessons that they learned on the Mac before the App
0:32:54Store, and they just bring them to iOS and to the iPad. For example, the thinking that
0:33:09all iPad users, they care about beautiful design, or maybe setting a single price once
0:33:17and then not experimenting with it ever again. Or maybe enabling new iOS features months
0:33:26after the release. And I think what these developers are discovering is that the iOS
0:33:32App Store, especially now with the iPad Pro, is a very different ecosystem than the Mac.
0:33:37the Mac from the 90s and the Mac before the iPhone and before the iPad. And that the way,
0:33:43you know, we are no longer in the, I don't know if you guys ever watched the documentary
0:33:50Macheads from how many years ago, I don't remember, but it feels to me as if a lot of
0:33:55developers, not panic maybe, but a lot of them, when I see them on Twitter arguing about
0:34:01iOS. They still are in that kind of mentality of Apple as the underdog and the Mac head
0:34:08type of era, and it's not like that anymore. And the App Store now is different. It requires
0:34:14constant experimentation. It requires staying on top of changes to iOS. You just cannot
0:34:20say because my app was successful on the Mac, now I take the same arguably beautiful design
0:34:27and attention to detail and the same price, and then, well, it just didn't work on the
0:34:31App Store, so it's totally Apple's fault.
0:34:34I don't think it's easy like that.
0:34:36And I think it's important to stay on top of the fact that the iOS audience is just
0:34:42different and iPad users have different needs.
0:34:46And the apps that I've been taking a look at recently as alternatives to transmit, one
0:34:54One of them has three different versions on the App Store, and one for business, one for
0:34:59standard users, one for education.
0:35:02And the app is File Browser.
0:35:04File Browser has been around for years.
0:35:05They obviously build a successful business on top of this, and they are relentless in
0:35:12implementing new iOS features and understanding, listening to the user base, and, you know,
0:35:17it's not the most beautiful app ever, but it's still around, and it works with iOS 11.
0:35:23So I guess it's a matter of understanding the differences between iOS and the Mac as
0:35:29two platforms, even if they're made by the same company.
0:35:34But I don't think the sort of the nostalgic, the old Mac way of selling software, I don't
0:35:42think it applies to iOS.
0:35:44And I think you're, I think you've got a bunch of chocolate in your peanut butter there.
0:35:47Like I agree like the business model and the needing to have new feature support like Mac
0:35:53developers have gotten out of that habit because the Mac hasn't had radical new UI features
0:35:57in a really long time.
0:35:59But I think that's separate from things like polish and good design that I do think users
0:36:05care about like these apps you're talking about.
0:36:07They're gonna be in the show notes.
0:36:09Most of them are like ugly as hell.
0:36:11And I don't know if but they work.
0:36:14They do work.
0:36:15only option because panic's out of the game. But I think people...
0:36:20Even before, even if a chance mint was still around, but it didn't work with drag and drop
0:36:25and files.
0:36:26But people care about the design and pause, especially high-end Mac users that Apple wants
0:36:31to see them adopt the iPad. Like, you can't write it off completely. There has to be balance,
0:36:37I think, and I think that's what your argument is missing, that you have to have support
0:36:40for drag and drop and these new things. 100% like, still, you know, I go to use an app
0:36:45that doesn't support something new and iOS. I'm like, what are you doing? It's so frustrating.
0:36:50But on the other hand, an app should, a developer should be able to spend the time and the effort
0:36:55to make something look nice. And if they can't afford it, then their pricing model is wrong.
0:37:00You know, like that there all those things have to be in balance. Panic, I think went
0:37:04too far in one direction, thinking of making it too much like a Mac app. But I think these
0:37:09other apps maybe go too far the other way where they're just focused on
0:37:12utility and the UI leaves so much to be desired that I mean people will write
0:37:19apps off based on the screenshots in the App Store and if an app is hideous
0:37:23looking and sadly most of these are then they're not they're never going to be
0:37:28able to attract some of those users some of them will pick them up because they
0:37:32need a tool to finish clearly but some users are gonna write them off because
0:37:36as the design. I don't know if... that balance is really hard to strike and
0:37:42clearly it's been a real struggle for lots of developers over the history of
0:37:46iOS because you have all these factors and it's all compounded the fact that
0:37:50the iOS App Store is a pressure cooker. I would like to see some good
0:37:56examples of apps in this space that strike that balance a little bit better.
0:37:59I would like to just say at this point that I think you're going too hard on
0:38:04the design of these applications. I think that they are just basic. I think
0:38:07hideous is the wrong word to describe them. They are just extremely basic. I don't
0:38:13think that they are hideous. They're not like incredibly exciting and beautiful
0:38:17like panic but they're not... Fine, whatever. I mean so you disagree with the adjective
0:38:21but I think my point stands that if you are used to something like a $45 super
0:38:26polished app on the Mac and your only option on iOS is something that is okay
0:38:33so it's not hideous, but it's basic or clunky, then that doesn't feel as nice.
0:38:38And so maybe you don't trust the app as much or you don't feel like it's the right fit for whatever reason.
0:38:44Well, that's a way to go about it for sure. I disagree with that, honestly. I think
0:38:50for all the reasons that I mentioned before, I think it's a
0:38:56I don't think that the design is
0:39:01is really the problem here, but the problem, from my opinion, and now I don't work at
0:39:05Panica, I have no idea what the numbers are, but it feels to me as if that way of using
0:39:16software primarily, even if alternatives exist primarily because of the design, is, I don't
0:39:23think it necessarily applies to iOS these days. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but
0:39:30I'm looking at companies, for example, like Ulysses, and they have been able to adapt.
0:39:34They were around on the Mac for years, and they are going through some changes.
0:39:39But you know, and they're just one example.
0:39:43I think the real problem here is the things that Apple did wrong years ago, for sure,
0:39:49but also a lack of experimentation, of playing around with different things.
0:39:58But yeah, we cannot for sure. So at some point this whole discussion is, you know, I don't
0:40:04know how useful it can be to just speculate on what Panic did or didn't do wrong.
0:40:10So yeah, I do. Before we move away from this, I do just want to point out a couple of things
0:40:15because I mean Panic, we're up front with it. Last year, Transmit made $35,000, which
0:40:23I would expect for some people in most cities in the US, like that isn't enough money.
0:40:27And I understand that. Of course, we don't know what it made in the years prior. We're expecting
0:40:32it probably made more because it lasted for the amount of time that it lasted for. So the revenue
0:40:38decreased over time. But I also want to just mention, because I think it is worth bringing up,
0:40:42that in the same paragraph, they talk about paid upgrades. So it is the idea, I mean, the idea that
0:40:49Federico is touching on is the idea of staying too fixed in to your specific ways that you believe
0:40:59that your business works. I'm sure they thought about it, I would like to believe they thought
0:41:05about it, but Transmit really, really does feel like an app that you could get people to pay
0:41:11monthly for. And for whatever reason they decided not to do that. But there is a concern here that
0:41:19potentially they canned it because they were thinking about their their tried and true way
0:41:24of doing business. I mean which is the exact same reason why Panic pulled a bunch of their
0:41:29applications from the Mac App Store was because they couldn't do paid upgrades. So that is their
0:41:35business model and has worked very well for them. But it is I think worth pointing out that like
0:41:40That is not the business model for app stores now.
0:41:44So that is something that I think is worth just highlighting
0:41:48because we have those pieces of information
0:41:50from them themselves.
0:41:51Do we want to stop talking about this now?
0:41:54- Yes, please.
0:41:55- All right, Federico, can you just very quickly
0:41:57rattle off your alternatives?
0:41:58- File browser is the one that I mentioned,
0:42:02and Coda, and I would also say iFiles,
0:42:06which supports Rackspace, Cloud Files too,
0:42:08which is our CDN that we use our Mac stories.
0:42:10And these are, when it comes to FTP,
0:42:12I would say the three choices that I would try.
0:42:16And I go into more detail with screenshots
0:42:18and I explain a bunch of features
0:42:21in the next iPad Diaries, sorry.
0:42:24I also wanna give a shout out to Documents by Readdle,
0:42:28which in theory supports SFTP,
0:42:31but I wasn't able to make it connect to my FTP server.
0:42:35But it's also a basic file manager, which I could see the argument here that in the
0:42:40age of files you probably don't need documents, with the exception that documents handles
0:42:45zip archives, which in 2018, you know, files still doesn't.
0:42:52And also I want to mention devon.think, which is on the other end of the file manager spectrum.
0:42:59It's an advanced file manager.
0:43:00You can do things like automations to save new files in different formats.
0:43:05It supports web archives, which are one of the features that Mac users should be familiar
0:43:11with the ability to save a web page offline.
0:43:14It also supports multiple databases syncing with an encrypted database via Dropbox.
0:43:20It's what I use to organize my research material, but it doesn't support FTP for uploads and
0:43:26file transfers.
0:43:28So this is just a file manager.
0:43:31So I'm not sure if I will stick with a single FTP client and file manager on my iPad, but
0:43:40I would say these are the alternatives that you can play around with right now.
0:43:44And File Browser is the only one that integrates with the File Provider extension, so you can
0:43:53actually connect and browse your FTP server in the Files app.
0:43:58All right, let's take our first break.
0:43:59then we're going to talk about something and then we're probably going to argue again.
0:44:04So you know, you've got that to look forward to. Today's show is brought to you by Anchor,
0:44:08the fastest and easiest way for anyone to make a podcast. If you have something you
0:44:12want to say or a moment that you want to share, you can. You don't need a mobile recording
0:44:16rig. Just download the app from the app store and you can record into Anchor like you're
0:44:20talking on the phone. Then Anchor takes care of the rest. As well as being able to create
0:44:25a quick podcast of your own, Anchor is also a really cool social network. You can follow
0:44:29people, call in to their stations, leave them questions and listen to some of your favourite
0:44:33people share their thoughts with you.
0:44:35I have been playing around Vanka for a few weeks and I love it.
0:44:37I love the design of the app.
0:44:39I love the fact that it can very easily create transcriptions of the things that you're talking
0:44:44about which enables you to edit stuff.
0:44:46It's great.
0:44:47So what you do if you want to edit a clip that you've got, right, you just let it create
0:44:50the transcription and it shows you in text as the audio is playing.
0:44:55So you can choose where to trim based upon cutting off the words.
0:44:58It's very simple. It's a quick and easy way to get your thoughts out into the world.
0:45:02If you want to find out more about Anchor, there is a great way to do it. Go to my page
0:45:06at anchor.fm/mikehurley. You can find out more about Anchor and follow me. And the reason
0:45:11you should do that is because I am doing a persistent audio AMA with listeners of this
0:45:16show. Sign up for Anchor, go to my page, you can press a button that says "call in to my
0:45:20station" and you can leave me a message and I'll play back the best ones on my channel
0:45:25and give my answers. So go to anchor.fm/mikehurley to check it out and leave me an AMA question
0:45:31so you may hear it on my station. Thanks to Anchor for their support of this show.
0:45:35So Federico, in a stunning break from convention, you have decided for the first time to try
0:45:44a third party iPad keyboard. I know you have no experience in this whatsoever. What did
0:45:50you buy? How is it treating you?
0:45:52Well, you know, for years I've been using an Apple Smart Keyboard as my only iPad keyboard
0:45:57and I thought, you know, maybe it's time for a change, maybe I should try some of those
0:46:01third-party iPad keyboards. And this is not really the truth, I'm not sure how I can keep
0:46:10pretending. So, new iPad keyboard, I've been using the Slim Convo, the Logitech one, we
0:46:18We talked about it in our live show, connected live from Chicago back in October 2017, so
0:46:25you can go back and listen to that one.
0:46:27I've been very happy with the Slink Combo at my desk.
0:46:32I haven't been happy with the Slink Combo when I needed to use the iPad in my car or
0:46:37on my lap or when I was on the couch or something.
0:46:41And the obvious solution, because I don't want to use the Smart Keyboard for a bunch
0:46:46of reasons that I also talked about in the past, such as the lack of backlit
0:46:50illumination or the non-adjustable viewing angle. And the only solution was,
0:46:57once again, the Bridge keyboard, the keyboard, the Mac-like, the MacBook-like
0:47:04keyboard that, for example, Jason Snell uses. But Bridge keyboards are quite
0:47:10well known on Twitter and other tech podcasts for their unreliability.
0:47:16It's not uncommon that you buy a bridge keyboard and you need to return it
0:47:21because it's dropping keystrokes when you type. This happened to me twice in
0:47:27the past and that's why I really did not want to try the bridge lottery again.
0:47:33I didn't want to see if the third time was a charm. But spoiler alert, it was.
0:47:39totally worked. I realized, as I was talking, so here's how it happened, I was talking to
0:47:44Steve Tran Smith on iMessage, and he had been tweeting about the fact that he was waiting
0:47:50for a bridge keyboard, and I went on Amazon Italy. So Amazon Italy never had the bridge
0:47:57keyboards before. I went on Amazon Italy just, you know, just out of curiosity, and I saw
0:48:02that the Space Gray one for the 12.9 was in stock, and this was Sunday evening, and it
0:48:10had Monday morning delivery.
0:48:14And there were only a handful left in stock, and I thought, you know, maybe I should try
0:48:20again.
0:48:21And worst case scenario, I'm just going to return it, because returning something on
0:48:25Amazon is not too bad.
0:48:29So I got one and Steve was quite upset that mine was coming before his keyboard because
0:48:37he's been tweeting for like a week about this bridge keyboard and mine just showed up like
0:48:4212 hours later. And yeah, it worked. This time it appears that I have a functioning
0:48:52bridge keyboard that does not drop. This is actually, you know, the chances are, you know,
0:48:59you have far better chances of winning, I think, a WWDC ticket than getting a working
0:49:05bridge keyboard. But yeah, it seems to be working. It reconnects to my iPad when you
0:49:11open the lid, it connects, it doesn't drop any keys, and it's just as beautiful as the
0:49:19keyboard I remember seeing Jason use with his iPad Pro. And so far, I'm happy with it.
0:49:26I can use the iPad on my lap, I can use it on a desk, I can use it in my car, because
0:49:31it's like using a laptop, which is why people on Twitter yesterday were really upset.
0:49:37So I want to give you a breaking piece of news.
0:49:39I went to Amazon to see if it's available here, because I'm thinking I might be willing
0:49:45to try it again, now I don't have to ship it to the US if it's broken, which was the
0:49:49problem that I had with the last two that I tried.
0:49:53But the Amazon Echo Spot is now available in the UK.
0:49:57I just wanted to tell you that information.
0:49:59I've been...
0:50:00I'm tempted.
0:50:01I've been enjoying mine.
0:50:02I have the spot on...
0:50:03Yeah?
0:50:04Yeah, yeah.
0:50:05Jeff Bezos calls, took you in at night.
0:50:07Alright, I'm tempted.
0:50:09Yeah, you can drop in on me if you want to.
0:50:13You know, okay, we're gonna roll diversion here.
0:50:15I was thinking about this.
0:50:16Like I watched a review on The Verge about the Echo Spot recently and they're like, "Oh,
0:50:20if you don't mind having a camera in your bedroom."
0:50:22"Oh, I don't want a camera in my bedroom." And then I thought, "Oh, all of our phones
0:50:26have cameras in them, whatever." And then kind of moved on from that feeling for a little
0:50:30bit. Right? Because it hits you, because you're like, "Oh man, I don't want a camera in my
0:50:36bedroom." And then you remember, I know, that we have four cameras in our bedrooms because
0:50:43each of our phones have two of them. Right? So, like, whatever.
0:50:46Or six, so you get two cameras on the back of your phone.
0:50:49Oh no!
0:50:50Multi-pat lifestyle.
0:50:51got some big problems and iPads as well but anyway maybe I'll give it a go maybe I'm gonna
0:50:56build up an Amazon right now including an Echo Spot and a bridge keyboard but like we can think
0:51:00about that later and the reason is because I had one and I loved the form factor what I didn't love
0:51:07is the fact that the keys didn't work but the form factor is fantastic the reason being because it's
0:51:14a laptop and laptops, spoiler alert, is a great form factor. So the people say, "Oh,
0:51:21you just got a laptop, why don't you get a MacBook?" That is the argument that people
0:51:26make and I feel like I can't believe, I still feel that this argument needs to be made.
0:51:32And like Federico, "Will you say it with me? I have it in the document here. Will you
0:51:37say it with me, it's all about the OS, right? That's what it's about. It's okay to prefer
0:51:50iOS over the Mac. I think it's fine. I just don't understand why some people, and this
0:51:56is what I've been trying to engage with these people on Twitter, like asking "Why do you
0:52:02send me this reply? Why do you think it was necessary to tell?" I've been trying, because
0:52:06Because I feel like if you maybe sometimes if you try to diffuse the situation with these
0:52:10people maybe it helps. Because for example, let's say someone on Twitter tweets at me,
0:52:16"Congratulations. Congratulations. You just invented the laptop." And I can feel the sarcasm.
0:52:22I can feel, I can feel the tone, right? And so I reply to these people, "Why do you do
0:52:27this? Why do you feel, what's this tweet necessary? What's the purpose of your tweet? What are
0:52:33you hoping to change with this tweet? That's what I've been trying to understand. Like,
0:52:39it's an iPad, it runs iOS, and it's got a keyboard attachment that makes it look like
0:52:44a laptop. It makes it like a laptop, but it's not a computer that runs a Mac OS. Now, what
0:52:51is your problem if I'm using an iPad with a keyboard? That's what I don't understand.
0:52:56I felt that we were past this point of some people just prefer MacBooks, which is fine.
0:53:03And some people prefer iPads, which is also fine. I don't understand why some people feel
0:53:11the need to reply in that way on Twitter. And when you reply to them, they don't reply
0:53:17back. So all the people that I asked, why do you do this? Why do you feel like it's
0:53:21necessary for you to point out to me that I made the iPad into a laptop and they never
0:53:27reply. Because maybe they just want to get into a fight and they just want to annoy you
0:53:32on Twitter. Which is sad, because I would like to have a conversation with these people.
0:53:36I would like to say, "What makes you angry? What makes you angry?"
0:53:41Or, you know, maybe they realized that they were making a dumb joke and obviously it didn't
0:53:45work because it only annoyed you. Like, that could be a big reason for a lot of people.
0:53:49lot of people aren't trying to upset you, they're just making a joke. But there are people that like
0:53:54make these comments and they believe that what you're doing is saying that the Mac is bad.
0:53:59No, no.
0:54:00Like I don't, it doesn't, the thing is it doesn't have to be one or the other, right? Like
0:54:05again, you know, maybe I'll just throw out some reasons again why me and Federico would quite like
0:54:12to attach keyboards to our iPads that make them look like MacBooks. The reason is is because we
0:54:18We both prefer iOS.
0:54:20We like the ultimate portability that comes along with it.
0:54:23And this is in two different ways, the way that I look at it.
0:54:25My iPad is more portable than my Macs.
0:54:29But also, my iPhone is the most portable device of all.
0:54:32And it shares a consistent OS and experience with my iPad.
0:54:37Like, they're very similar.
0:54:38They use the same applications.
0:54:40Except if you need Control Center, there's that.
0:54:44So deal with that, Myke.
0:54:45Deal with it.
0:54:46is still the same control center. How do you get to control center on the Mac? Please give
0:54:52me that information. Yeah, they should have control center for the Mac actually. Right,
0:54:57but this is my point, right? Like I'm not saying they're the same swipes and taps. And
0:55:01I'm just mocking control center, you're just touchy. I know you are. Yes I am. They have
0:55:07built-in cellular connections, iPads do, which is really lovely. There are many, many, many
0:55:11reasons. And the thing is, like, we just, this is just what we like. And it would be
0:55:16really nice if they could make a keyboard that really worked very well. So Stephen,
0:55:20why don't you ask your question?
0:55:23What if Apple made an iOS powered laptop? Jason Snell has been writing a bunch about
0:55:28this. I think it's a really interesting idea. Would you be interested in, you know, say
0:55:32a 12 inch MacBook or a 13 inch MacBook form factor, but it ran iOS instead of Mac OS?
0:55:41Here's my question before I answer, because I need the specifics.
0:55:46Would the screen be detachable?
0:55:48I mean, Apple doesn't believe in that, so I would say no.
0:55:52Just for the sake of our conversation.
0:55:54So my answer would be, I would consider that device for the home, but I would still like
0:56:03a screen that I can detach.
0:56:04Because I really like the idea of the convertible, that I can pick up the screen and use it with
0:56:09the software keyboard or put it into the thing and it becomes a laptop.
0:56:14I really like that but I would still consider because I want an iOS laptop
0:56:19even if I won't buy one I want the iOS laptop to exist and you know yeah.
0:56:26I would 100% buy it and replace my 12.9 with it and keep using my 10.5 wherever I go in the world.
0:56:32I think it'd be really interesting and Apple seems allergic to
0:56:36experimenting with form factor on the notebooks like there's no two and ones
0:56:39there's no touchscreen on the max and and the further we get into this the
0:56:44more it seems like that all is a mistake that these devices are popular on the
0:56:49other side of the fence and Apple doesn't have anything to show for it so I
0:56:54find that the conversation really interesting there'll be links in the
0:56:56show notes Jason Snell has written two columns at Macworld basically one
0:57:00listing the pros and the other listing the cons is a very interesting approach
0:57:04But I agree with you all that this would be, it'd be great if this existed.
0:57:08I think it would do a lot for the platform, but the trade-off is that portability, right?
0:57:14The bridge keyboard and these other keyboards are attractive because you can separate them
0:57:18and you still just have a tablet, right?
0:57:20So you can still use it in bed or in the car or anywhere else.
0:57:23Whereas a notebook, at least the way Apple makes notebooks, those two things are joined
0:57:27permanently.
0:57:28So it seems like that's the distinction.
0:57:30Federico, what is not so great about the bridge compared to some of the other products that you've tried?
0:57:35It doesn't have an Italian layout, so I'm stuck with the stupid return key from the American layout
0:57:43That is a stupid return key
0:57:46You know it's not the L-shaped one that we have in Italy
0:57:51So and here oh, yeah, we have it too nice. Well. I mean of course Europe once again teaching the rest of the world
0:57:58world. Oh man, so much. I mean, if we haven't encouraged enough email yet…
0:58:08After last week, with the comments about the…
0:58:12No, no, we don't talk about that again. We don't talk about it.
0:58:15I feel like I can…
0:58:17You can take on the world!
0:58:18I can't survive anything at this point.
0:58:22Except a house fire.
0:58:23No, why would you say that?
0:58:26God, no!
0:58:28[LAUGHTER]
0:58:31You know, I tried to explain the situation to Sylvia.
0:58:37She was like, why?
0:58:39Why?
0:58:41Her question was, why do you still like people?
0:58:45Something like that.
0:58:48Man, she's my kind of person.
0:58:51Yeah.
0:58:52So anyway, it doesn't have the Italian keyboard layout.
0:58:58Because of the way that the hinge is designed, the iPad sits lower than the keyboard, slightly
0:59:06lower, which makes it more difficult, not impossible, but more difficult to swipe from
0:59:11the bottom to open the dock and control center, because the keyboard kind of gets in the way.
0:59:17I saw someone on Twitter saying that they also have a Breached keyboard, and that was
0:59:21really clever actually. They cut two small pieces of foam and they put it in the two
0:59:29attachments of the keyboard to raise the iPad a bit higher so that it's not a problem when
0:59:36swiping from the bottom. And I might consider something like that. But my foam cutting skills
0:59:41are not too great. Not that I know, I'm just imagining. It's Bluetooth, so it doesn't have
0:59:48a smart connector and that means that, well, it means that you don't get all the latest
0:59:54smart connector issues on iOS 11, but it also means that you got to wait a couple of seconds
1:00:00for the keyboard to connect, which is…
1:00:03And the battery.
1:00:04And the battery, and the battery.
1:00:05You got to think about that.
1:00:07You got to charge it every couple of months at least.
1:00:10And finally, this is a design flaw I think of the bridge keyboard.
1:00:14doesn't have the keyboard slash case, it doesn't have like a lip on the side. So if you want
1:00:21to open, because it's got a magnetic connection and it's quite tight, but it doesn't have
1:00:27like a cutout to place your fingertip and detach them, it can be a little tricky to
1:00:34open the Brydge keyboard when it's closed on top of the iPad screen. It's not like MacBooks
1:00:41for example, they have a cutout, so you can place your finger and raise the screen. This
1:00:46doesn't have a cutout. So I've noticed since yesterday, I've already noticed that, for
1:00:52example, Sylvia said, "So show me this keyboard." I was like, "Hold on, I cannot find a way
1:00:57to open it," because I was kind of struggling.
1:01:00You used to do that tiny crowbar with you at all times.
1:01:02Yeah. Or I should grow a single fingernail longer than the others.
1:01:07Please don't do that. Whatever you do, please don't do that.
1:01:11Some people do that. I always thought it's super gross.
1:01:14I know, I really don't want you to do it.
1:01:16I think it's for different reasons besides an iPad keyboard, but I'm not sure.
1:01:20Oh no, no, no.
1:01:21No, I don't know what that is.
1:01:24I don't want to know. I want to move on. Please. So anyway, iOS laptop please. Bridge keyboard
1:01:30finally works, but if you want to get one, please be aware that it's a lottery. And as
1:01:36with other lotteries, if you don't win you're gonna be sad, only in this case you also gotta
1:01:40return a keyboard to Amazon.
1:01:41And if my Twitter, I'm making a very timely joke here, if my Twitter timeline is anything
1:01:45to profess to, if you do win a lottery, you can tweet about it and get people to retweet
1:01:50you in the hopes that they will give you some money. I don't know if you guys have been
1:01:54seeing this, but this keeps popping up in my timeline, that guy who won like the 400
1:01:58million dollar thing, whether it's true or not, like there's a tweet going around that
1:02:03he's going to give people money if they retweet it or something.
1:02:05Really?
1:02:06I can't, yeah.
1:02:07Well, I'm not giving anybody any money if they retweet my keyboard key pictures.
1:02:14That's not going to happen.
1:02:16You will give them hell though if they argue with you.
1:02:18No, I'm just trying to reason with them.
1:02:20I'm just trying to reason with them.
1:02:21I have a human conversation.
1:02:23That's what I want to do.
1:02:24Today's show is brought to you by Ting.
1:02:25Ting is a mobile phone service that wants to help save you money.
1:02:29Ting believes that you should only pay for what you use.
1:02:31with prices like $10 per gigabyte of data.
1:02:34The average Ting customer pays just $23 a month per phone.
1:02:38If you're in the US and you use a cell phone,
1:02:40probably all of you, you're gonna,
1:02:42well, all of you in the US, I say that every time,
1:02:44but what I mean is everybody in the US uses a cell phone.
1:02:47I know that we have international listeners,
1:02:49I'm one of them.
1:02:50But anyway, if you're in the US and you use a cell phone,
1:02:51you'll love what the folk over at Ting can do for you.
1:02:54They don't believe in contracts,
1:02:56overage fees or unlimited plans with tons of catches.
1:02:59They have top rated no hold customer support.
1:03:02When you call Ting, you'll get through to a real person.
1:03:05They are focused on offering the best prices
1:03:07that they can for their customers over at Ting
1:03:09and any savings that they can make, they will pass onto you.
1:03:1380% of the devices made in the last two years
1:03:16can come to Ting and Ting offers both GSM and CDMA.
1:03:20And they even offer all the latest iPhones
1:03:22as soon as they launch along with Apple Care too.
1:03:24So if you wanna go and pick up a brand new iPhone
1:03:28with a great new carrier, maybe you should try out Ting.
1:03:30And if you're stuck in a contract currently, they're going to offer you
1:03:3225 percent credit of your early termination fee as well, up to seventy
1:03:37five dollars per device that you bring over to Ting.
1:03:40To get started, go to connected.ting.com
1:03:44and use their handy device checker to confirm your phone can make the move.
1:03:47And if you're looking to upgrade to a new device, they have plenty of options
1:03:50available in their online store.
1:03:52Listeners of this show can save twenty five dollars on select devices or keep it
1:03:57Ting credit. Just go to connected.ting.com and see how much you can save. Our thanks
1:04:02to Ting for their support of this show.
1:04:05Gentlemen, I would like to pose a hypothetical to you, which I think ties a thread through
1:04:12some of the conversations that we've been having today, and also maybe highlights the
1:04:18fact that we haven't really seen anything in the way of rumors of iPad hardware leaks
1:04:25or anything like that.
1:04:26I was about to say yes, a duck-sized Myke would win against a horse-sized Steven.
1:04:32But it's not about that.
1:04:33It's about that.
1:04:34Okay, okay.
1:04:35It's about that.
1:04:36It's not about that.
1:04:37It's not about that.
1:04:38Here's my hypothetical situation.
1:04:39So now that Apple is getting themselves such good press and customer satisfaction from
1:04:46professionals in rededicating themselves to making pro Mac hardware, will they therefore
1:04:53take their foot off the pedal for pro iPad hardware, considering that the pro iPad market
1:05:00is less represented in the technology press.
1:05:04So another question to this, can there be pro Macs and pro iPads at the same time?
1:05:09Okay. So there's a few things to unpack here. The first one I think I'm mildly concerned
1:05:21about the lack of any tangible rumors about the specifics of new iPads this year. Now,
1:05:31I don't think last year the rumors mentioned the stuff like ProMotion, but I remember that
1:05:39there were rumors of 10.5 and new iPad form factor, and I wonder if there's any new iPad
1:05:48hardware in the pipeline coming soon or soonish or if we're gonna have to wait until September
1:05:56or if we're not gonna get any new iPad in 2018. I want to believe that the iPad release
1:06:06cycle will not stop, that we're not going back to the days of "it's been two years,
1:06:15I guess, time for new iPads. So I want to see Apple continue releasing new iPads and
1:06:21new iPad software features in iOS. So I feel more confident about the software than about
1:06:27the hardware at this point. But the other question is, what about the relationship with
1:06:35the press and the fact that the tech press has liked the renewed commitment to the pro-Mac
1:06:45hardware line and community.
1:06:48And the problem here, I think, is that the usual circle of tech press that Apple works
1:06:57with, they tend to be Mac users and they tend to be pro-Mac users.
1:07:03At least it's very common, you know, whether it's a website like The Verge or TechCrunch
1:07:08or someone like John Gruber.
1:07:10Podcasts like this one!
1:07:12Right?
1:07:13Like me and Steven are both very happy about this, right?
1:07:17Like about the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro and stuff like that.
1:07:19But especially when you consider...
1:07:20Yeah, it's everywhere.
1:07:21When you consider... when it's time, for example, to see the new hardware, those websites are
1:07:29going to be more excited, I think, about new Pro Max than new Pro iPads, if only because
1:07:36they use them more. It's like if you send me an iMac Pro for review, I would be happy.
1:07:43It's a new Apple machine, it's a powerful one, but it wouldn't be over the moon, because
1:07:47I don't use it every day. And I guess the same happens with the iPad. So I do wonder,
1:07:55Apple sort of say let's put the iPad on hold for now, let's totally focus on the Mac and
1:08:02make sure that we get good press, we get good coverage, so that we can sort of counter all
1:08:12the negative press that we got in 2017 until we announced that we were committed to the
1:08:17Mac and all the problems that happened with the MacBook Pro for example.
1:08:21That would make sense, but I'm concerned about it as an iPad user.
1:08:25But on the other hand, my counter question would be, are we sure that doing that wouldn't
1:08:34create another problem?
1:08:36Because I do remember, so people have short memory maybe, but I do remember all those
1:08:41years until iOS 11 saying, "Well, the iPad is dead.
1:08:46Apple is not going to worry, doesn't care about the iPad anymore.
1:08:50at iOS, iOS is a joke, the iPad has a computer, it's a joke. And I know, because people have
1:08:56told me so many times on Twitter and over email. So now that the iPad is fine with iOS
1:09:0311 and the latest iPad Pros, it doesn't mean that if Apple stops innovating on the iPad,
1:09:10people will not go back to complaining and to writing blog posts and to saying the iPad
1:09:16is doomed. So ideally it should be a balance between the two and it should be both because
1:09:23Apple is a big company with a lot of resources and different teams working on different products.
1:09:34So I think it would make sense for Apple to cater to the to the Mac aficionados in the
1:09:41press but also it would make more sense to keep everybody happy so that you get
1:09:48the Mac people are happy and the iPad people are also happy and so you get no
1:09:52negative coverage anywhere.
1:09:54So here's my feeling on this why I think this is okay.
1:09:58I think that WWDC was the effective Mac roundtable but for iPad
1:10:10users because we got a ton of new features and new hardware all at the same time. It
1:10:17was the acknowledgement that professional iPad users also had been in the weeds a little
1:10:25bit and that things had kind of just slowed down significantly but it wasn't as bad as
1:10:33it had gotten for Mac users at that point which was why Apple didn't need to come out
1:10:39and be like, okay, like we have to tell you in advance what we're doing so you'll feel
1:10:46better, right? I think we kind of got what we wanted for professional iPad users at the
1:10:52kind of time that we expected to get it. Like if this stuff hadn't been ready for June and
1:10:57maybe it was going to come out a little bit later, I would have expected them to also
1:11:03kind of come out and say, "Hey, we're gonna do this." Maybe tack on the iPad stuff on
1:11:12the end of the Mac roundtable thing or whatever.
1:11:14By the way, don't leave. We have one more thing.
1:11:17We're okay. We're okay. And I think the reason that there could be concern on why it is hypothetical
1:11:22is occurring right now is because all of the attention right now is on pro Mac hardware
1:11:28because that's what's happening today and there just isn't anything yet and that maybe if this
1:11:35year continues to go by and we don't get anything on the iPad then it will be cause for concern
1:11:41but I also you know I said this and I believe this I don't think that we're on an annual cycle
1:11:46for iPad hardware I think we're on 18 to 24 months which is probably why we haven't seen anything I
1:11:52I think the earliest that we see any new iPads will be September, but really WWDC is the
1:11:58story, right?
1:11:59Like if there are continued improvements, not the scale of 11, because again, as I said
1:12:02last week, I don't think that's necessary, but if they have continued improvements in
1:12:0812 for the iPad, then that will be great.
1:12:12But I guess the other point, and I'll ask this to you, Steven, is it possible for Apple
1:12:16to focus on both of these professional markets at the same time?
1:12:19Do they have the capability and capacity to do it?
1:12:22They they should.
1:12:25Apple's enormous with lots of resources.
1:12:28I think when thinking about this topic in preparation, I was reminded of that article
1:12:33that came out a couple of years ago.
1:12:35We'll try to dig up the link about Apple's executive structure and how there's not like
1:12:42Each product is not held ownership by a single person at the very top.
1:12:51You have software and hardware and marketing, but there's not an executive vice president
1:12:57of iPad, an executive vice president of iPhone.
1:12:59Those people are further down the chain, but at the very top, it's a very small number
1:13:04of people.
1:13:07article one of the things raised in the conversation about it in the weeks after
1:13:12it was is Apple sort of does Apple have a choke point at the top is there is
1:13:20there a bottleneck at the top that they can you know that core group of five or
1:13:25six people can only focus on so many things at once because they're just five
1:13:28or six of them and they sort of take turns right hey we're gonna focus on the
1:13:33Mac for 2017 and the beginning of 2018 and they were going to deal with iPads
1:13:38later on and you see this cycle if you look over time if you sort of if you
1:13:44sort of blur the edges in this current like 2016 2017 thing which I think is
1:13:49very clearly now I think Apple Park derailed the company in a way they did
1:13:53not anticipate and did not prepare for I still think we're kind of getting back
1:13:57on track after getting that campus done but if you look back this is kind of how
1:14:01it's been for a long time. There's a TikTok to these things where some things have the
1:14:06attention of Apple and then the spotlight focuses somewhere else and they circle back
1:14:10to that other thing. The only thing that supersedes all that is the iPhone of course, right? It
1:14:15has an annual cycle no matter what there will be a new iPhone every September come what
1:14:20may. It will happen. I think Apple should and can and like they should have a Mac and
1:14:30an iPad Pro story that are in parallel.
1:14:34The Gabbles should be able to chew gum and walk at the same time and for whatever reason
1:14:39they can't.
1:14:41My suspicion is that that doesn't have much to do with hardware.
1:14:47That it is much more about software.
1:14:51That Mac OS and iOS are developed in tandem with each other.
1:14:57But because iOS has to be ready for the new iPhone,
1:15:02I don't know, there's something in there
1:15:04that just makes me feel like they struggle
1:15:08to focus equally throughout the year,
1:15:12and that software is the bigger,
1:15:15the bigger sufferer there.
1:15:18But I don't know, I wish they could.
1:15:20I wish that every WWDC, it could be like last year,
1:15:23and everyone's happy all the time,
1:15:25but Apple doesn't seem to be able to do that
1:15:27whatever reason and maybe it has to do with the press cycle maybe it has to do
1:15:31with the small executive team but I think that they should be able to move
1:15:37these things in parallel without any issue but it's not the case. So it's
1:15:45worth mentioning because I like to talk about this wherever I can Apple still
1:15:48does sell more iPads than they do Macs and I mean I'm just gonna throw
1:15:54something out there. I reckon the Apple probably sell more iPad Pros than they
1:15:59will iMac Pros. But does that seem wild? That feels extremely
1:16:03possible just based purely upon how much they cost, right? More than anything else.
1:16:07I mean revenue is a different thing but you know you're thinking about how many
1:16:12customers you want to have and then how much money you can make from the
1:16:14customers over the lifetime etc etc. And I would think that with the current
1:16:20trajectory of the iPad which is positive where it hasn't been for years it will be a terrible
1:16:27time for them to take their foot off the gas and it really does seem like Tim Cook is a
1:16:34believer of the iPad so I would I mean my overall takeaway from this is I would be incredibly
1:16:40surprised if Apple decided to because a few I don't know if knee should be the word but
1:16:49like because a bunch of technology publications were happy about this that they would change
1:16:55their entire business because I don't think that that is a great idea and of course this is only
1:17:01a hypothetical that we have posed right so like I'm arguing against my own question but that was
1:17:07my question in the first place but I would be surprised to see them be like oh so people love
1:17:13those Mac Pros, well let's just make those! Like that's all we need to do. I would be
1:17:18super surprised to see that occur, especially at a time where the iPad is starting to show
1:17:23positive signs that it hasn't in many, many years.
1:17:26And 18 months is fine for that. Like I agree with you, I think...
1:17:29I totally think that is fine. Yearly software updates and 18 month hardware updates, that
1:17:34works perfectly fine for me. I don't need more than that. I don't need an iPad every
1:17:39year.
1:17:40don't think that anybody should be worried that it's January 16th and we haven't heard
1:17:45iPad rumors. If you're expecting a new iPad Pro in March, you've lost your mind. That's
1:17:51just not the way this works.
1:17:52Well, because that's less than a year since the last one, right? It's like nine months
1:17:55or something.
1:17:56Yeah, they did that in the early days, but that's not how it is anymore. That's totally
1:17:58fine because the iPad hardware, yes, we'd all like to see new things, and I think we
1:18:02all have desires for certain features, but it's great. It's not like the iPad Pro is
1:18:07hurting from a hardware perspective right now and so yeah if it's September
1:18:11and we don't see anything you know it's the end of the year we don't see
1:18:14anything and they don't make it until next March you know that's you know 20
1:18:18months or so that's probably on the longer end of things but I think at this
1:18:23point it's fine I think what I think what we all need to be looking for is
1:18:27those trends of wherever the iPad Pro lands if it's 18 months or so then does
1:18:33Apple stick to that and is every 18 months when every 18 months comes around
1:18:37is the update meaningful in a way that matters to its customers? When
1:18:43Apple does annual iOS updates, does the iPad see something every year, which I
1:18:51think all three of us want, I think we all believe that it needs, or is the
1:18:55pattern going to be the way it's been so far and basically every two years you
1:19:00get new Pro iPad features? And if that's the case then I think we can argue that
1:19:04that they need to speed that up.
1:19:06So I think at this point moving forward,
1:19:08if Apple Park is behind them and they're moving in
1:19:11and all that stuff, they're done building it
1:19:13and designing it for the most part,
1:19:16what do the new patterns become for Mac and iOS hardware?
1:19:20And does Apple stick to those and do the patterns make sense
1:19:23and do they meet the needs of the users who make
1:19:26their livings on these things?
1:19:27And if so, that's great.
1:19:29And if not, then we have plenty more
1:19:30to talk about in future episodes.
1:19:33If you'd like to find our show notes for this week's episode, go to relay.fm/connected/176.
1:19:39I want to once more thank our sponsors SaneBox, Anchor and Ting for their support of this
1:19:43week's episode.
1:19:44Go to 512pixels.net to find Steven's work online and you can go to MaxStoriesNet.
1:19:50MaxStoriesNet, that's what it's called.
1:19:52MaxStories.net to find Federico's work.
1:19:56This show is a part of Relay FM.
1:19:59If you only listen to this show, I've listened to a couple of Relay FM shows, go to relay.fm
1:20:02slash shows and pick something else. I know we're gonna have something else there that you're gonna
1:20:07enjoy. As always, thank you so much for listening and we'll be back at our new time next week. Until
1:20:14then, say goodbye guys. Arrivederci. Adios.