Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 168. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:11 ◼   ► Hover, Squarespace and Eero. My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Federico Vititi. Ciao, Federico.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Hello fellow European, Myke Hurley.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Oh, well, we have a date now, so, you know, it's not forever.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Not for long.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Hello from the new world.

00:00:27 ◼   ► - What's happening today?

00:00:29 ◼   ► What's happening today?

00:00:31 ◼   ► I don't want to talk about any of this anymore.

00:00:33 ◼   ► I know Steven, you wanted me to report in for follow up

00:00:36 ◼   ► today about my bumper case, my in case frame.

00:00:39 ◼   ► It hasn't arrived yet.

00:00:41 ◼   ► It's on the way.

00:00:42 ◼   ► I don't know why this seems to be taking

00:00:44 ◼   ► an exceedingly long time to arrive.

00:00:47 ◼   ► - Handcrafted just for you.

00:00:48 ◼   ► - I guess so, but I did want to say that I am now using

00:00:52 ◼   ► the silicone case full time on my iPhone.

00:00:56 ◼   ► In hopes to try and cure what is my current crippling RSI that I have, which I am believing

00:01:02 ◼   ► is partly due to the way that I was holding the new iPhone.

00:01:08 ◼   ► I think there are lots of mitigating factors for this, but I'm thinking it might improve

00:01:12 ◼   ► my grip because previously I picked up my iPhone Plus and I picked up my iPhone X and

00:01:18 ◼   ► I tried to look at the way I was holding them both to try and work out, as well as the multitasking

00:01:23 ◼   ► gestures which I think is part of it.

00:01:25 ◼   ► what else could have changed for me.

00:01:27 ◼   ► And I realized that with my iPhone 10,

00:01:30 ◼   ► I would hold the phone on both sides and use it, right?

00:01:33 ◼   ► So like, I'll be holding it, gripping it in my hand.

00:01:36 ◼   ► But on the Plus, I couldn't do that.

00:01:37 ◼   ► So what I used to do is have this kind,

00:01:39 ◼   ► I basically just balanced the phone in my hand.

00:01:42 ◼   ► So what I've done is I've put the silicone case

00:01:44 ◼   ► on my iPhone 10, that now makes it too big to grip,

00:01:46 ◼   ► so it's kind of in balancing.

00:01:48 ◼   ► I'll report back as if this makes any difference

00:01:50 ◼   ► because right now, I haven't had any differences.

00:01:53 ◼   ► And actually today I haven't touched my iPhone at all

00:01:56 ◼   ► because currently it is the devil phone.

00:01:58 ◼   ► I think that the thumb swiping up gestures

00:02:02 ◼   ► are part of the problem for me,

00:02:04 ◼   ► but I think the overall grip has been bad too.

00:02:08 ◼   ► So I'm trying to do some stuff,

00:02:11 ◼   ► otherwise I'll probably be living

00:02:13 ◼   ► that assisted touch lifestyle

00:02:14 ◼   ► is probably where I'll have to end up going.

00:02:17 ◼   ► But I hope, well I mean like if I can't use the gestures

00:02:21 ◼   ► because of the pain they caused me, what am I gonna do?

00:02:26 ◼   ► Like I don't wanna not use this phone,

00:02:28 ◼   ► so I would at that point just move to assistive touch.

00:02:30 ◼   ► I've already set it up and played with it for a little bit

00:02:32 ◼   ► and whilst it is obviously frustrating,

00:02:35 ◼   ► I think I could get used to that.

00:02:37 ◼   ► So that's kind of where I am.

00:02:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, the thumb swipe up definitely bothers me.

00:02:44 ◼   ► I had a lot of tension in my right thumb

00:02:48 ◼   ► the first several days.

00:02:50 ◼   ► It is getting better, it's still sort of lingering.

00:02:51 ◼   ► And like last night, due to a bunch of reasons,

00:02:55 ◼   ► I was on my phone for a long time.

00:02:56 ◼   ► And by the time I went to bed, I was like,

00:02:59 ◼   ► "Okay, my hand is bothering me a little bit."

00:03:02 ◼   ► But just a lot of new stuff to get used to.

00:03:05 ◼   ► But I'm really sorry you're having trouble.

00:03:07 ◼   ► I know that's-- - Yeah.

00:03:09 ◼   ► I'm in extreme case with this right now.

00:03:11 ◼   ► It's like not just my thumbs, it's my wrists, my elbows,

00:03:14 ◼   ► and my whole hands on both hands.

00:03:16 ◼   ► I don't know what's, there's a lot of stuff going on.

00:03:19 ◼   ► and I think the iPhone is just a part of it.

00:03:21 ◼   ► So I'm hoping it will pass.

00:03:23 ◼   ► This does happen to me.

00:03:24 ◼   ► This isn't the first time that I've had a flare up like this.

00:03:27 ◼   ► But unfortunately the iPhone has kind of been caught

00:03:29 ◼   ► in the crossfire is what I'm thinking.

00:03:31 ◼   ► - I'm sorry buddy.

00:03:32 ◼   ► - It's okay, I can deal with it.

00:03:34 ◼   ► - So let's talk about some more reason for pain,

00:03:39 ◼   ► both physical and I'm gonna say psychological

00:03:42 ◼   ► with the new iPhone.

00:03:43 ◼   ► And that is the placement of control center.

00:03:47 ◼   ► We spoke a little bit about this last week,

00:03:51 ◼   ► but I finally got around to writing a thing about it,

00:03:53 ◼   ► and I included some ideas on maybe how Apple could improve it,

00:03:59 ◼   ► including just sticking it and multitasking,

00:04:01 ◼   ► which there is some evidence that that is what Apple

00:04:05 ◼   ► was experimenting with from Mr. Rambo on Twitter.

00:04:08 ◼   ► I'm curious what the two of you think about this.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Have you gotten used to Control Center being where it is?

00:04:14 ◼   ► Is it too far away for you and your hands?

00:04:18 ◼   ► How are y'all coming down on this?

00:04:19 ◼   ► - So I can use it.

00:04:21 ◼   ► I tend to use my iPhone with my left hand.

00:04:25 ◼   ► This is something that I didn't pay attention

00:04:28 ◼   ► until I got the iPhone 10,

00:04:29 ◼   ► but it seems that I'm left-handed just for the iPhone.

00:04:32 ◼   ► And with my thumb, I can reach the top right corner.

00:04:35 ◼   ► But I also think it's totally wrong

00:04:37 ◼   ► and it should be part of the app switcher.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Not exactly as it is on the iPad.

00:04:42 ◼   ► I'm not sure if Apple wants to bring some consistency

00:04:46 ◼   ► or if there needs to be some differences

00:04:49 ◼   ► between the iPhone and the iPad,

00:04:51 ◼   ► because I think we're in a strange situation here

00:04:53 ◼   ► where for years we've been sort of lamenting the fact

00:04:56 ◼   ► that the iPad was copying the iPhone UI.

00:05:00 ◼   ► And now we're at the stage where we're kind of wishing

00:05:02 ◼   ► that the iPhone was more like the iPad,

00:05:04 ◼   ► sort of like the inverse situation.

00:05:06 ◼   ► I'm not sure what the best solution is,

00:05:08 ◼   ► but I know for sure that swiping down

00:05:10 ◼   ► from that tiny corner of what would be the status bar,

00:05:14 ◼   ► it's not definitely the best that Apple could do.

00:05:19 ◼   ► And the fact that so many people seem to think

00:05:22 ◼   ► that it's also not so convenient,

00:05:24 ◼   ► I think Apple will definitely change the way

00:05:27 ◼   ► that you bring up Control Center.

00:05:29 ◼   ► I think it should be part of the App Switcher.

00:05:30 ◼   ► I think you should be able to swipe up

00:05:32 ◼   ► and pause or whatever that Apple prefers

00:05:34 ◼   ► to open the standard App Switcher.

00:05:37 ◼   ► But I think on the right, there should be Control Center.

00:05:39 ◼   ► and maybe there could be a way that you swipe up and then immediately go to the left.

00:05:44 ◼   ► So you don't need to swipe up, pause, then scroll.

00:05:47 ◼   ► It could be like a single smooth gesture.

00:05:50 ◼   ► I think there's potential to do that, but I think I can use it,

00:05:54 ◼   ► but it should be in a different position.

00:05:56 ◼   ► I think you can...

00:05:58 ◼   ► I think that it's very possible to just put it all in the one multitasking screen.

00:06:02 ◼   ► Like, the app cards do not need to be as big as they are.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Like, it's not required.

00:06:07 ◼   ► They could be way smaller with the icons being a little bit bigger and then you could have

00:06:12 ◼   ► all of the controls just like around the borders.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Like it's fine.

00:06:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:17 ◼   ► Like control centers already like a big puzzle mess right now, which I love, but like that

00:06:20 ◼   ► UI is not like mega elegant.

00:06:24 ◼   ► It is functional.

00:06:25 ◼   ► So I think we we refer to it, I think back in June as controlled chaos.

00:06:30 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:06:31 ◼   ► And so you may as well just put it all in the one screen.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Like it's not it's not great.

00:06:35 ◼   ► And it looks like Apple were at least considering something like this, right?

00:06:37 ◼   ► Like as Steven pointed out, that our good friend Rambo found like a friend of the show

00:06:42 ◼   ► is @_inside on Twitter, found like a demo video from like a tips app or something where

00:06:50 ◼   ► it seemed like originally just doing the swipe up was the first screen that you'd see in

00:06:56 ◼   ► multitasking was Control Center.

00:06:58 ◼   ► I don't think that's the right way to do it from a UI perspective, but I think that there's

00:07:03 ◼   ► a way to combine all of that stuff together.

00:07:06 ◼   ► I have gotten used to Control Center being where it is, but I still know I don't like

00:07:10 ◼   ► it.

00:07:11 ◼   ► I know it's the wrong place for it.

00:07:17 ◼   ► And there are some other possibilities I talked about.

00:07:20 ◼   ► You could 3D touch on the home indicator and maybe it could bring it up.

00:07:26 ◼   ► That would also work on the lock screen.

00:07:28 ◼   ► Part of this is it's got to work on the lock screen as well, and of course swipe up is

00:07:31 ◼   ► was taken on the lock screen to unlock the phone.

00:07:34 ◼   ► And so you gotta think about both places,

00:07:36 ◼   ► but kind of where I left it was, it's in the wrong place,

00:07:39 ◼   ► I have some other ideas, but I'm not,

00:07:42 ◼   ► I think the term I came up with was fancy pants

00:07:44 ◼   ► California designer, like they're smart people,

00:07:47 ◼   ► they can work this out.

00:07:48 ◼   ► And from Twitter reactions to the piece,

00:07:53 ◼   ► most people agree with us that it's not ideal

00:07:57 ◼   ► the way it is now.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Some people just mocked me for having small hands

00:08:01 ◼   ► for not giving enough time, whatever.

00:08:03 ◼   ► But it's something that I think Apple should address.

00:08:07 ◼   ► But it seems like they're doubling down.

00:08:10 ◼   ► So in the new 11.2 developer beta that dropped yesterday,

00:08:14 ◼   ► the public beta will probably be out today,

00:08:16 ◼   ► there is a little indication on the right here

00:08:21 ◼   ► that Control Center is up there.

00:08:23 ◼   ► And nine to five, and everyone is reporting this as new,

00:08:28 ◼   ► But when you first set up your iPhone 10,

00:08:31 ◼   ► the first time you're on the lock screen,

00:08:33 ◼   ► you actually get this little indication

00:08:35 ◼   ► on the lock screen in the upper right-hand corner,

00:08:37 ◼   ► you get the control center icon,

00:08:39 ◼   ► showing you that's where it is.

00:08:41 ◼   ► So this isn't completely new.

00:08:43 ◼   ► Apple has had a little indication there at the beginning.

00:08:45 ◼   ► This seems just to be a little bit different take on it.

00:08:48 ◼   ► But they're trying to show people where it is.

00:08:52 ◼   ► And I understand that conceptually why it is here, right?

00:08:56 ◼   ► you pull down on the little cell service and battery and Wi-Fi little images and

00:09:03 ◼   ► then you get to control those things. Like conceptually it's very nice it's

00:09:07 ◼   ► just in the wrong place it's just hard to reach for a lot of users. So we'll see

00:09:12 ◼   ► what Apple does right now there it seems like they're just making it more apparent

00:09:16 ◼   ► to users who may not know where control center went where it is but I would hope

00:09:21 ◼   ► that they hear the feedback because it seems pretty universal or at least the

00:09:27 ◼   ► majority of iPhone 10 users I've heard from agree with us. I don't expect to

00:09:32 ◼   ► change in iOS 11. I don't either. Yeah. Because I think there's gonna be bigger

00:09:37 ◼   ► changes in iOS 12 from a UI perspective anyway so they'll just wrap it up in

00:09:42 ◼   ► there. This new beta, the 11.2 beta 3 also enabled the 7.5 watt Qi charging which we

00:09:49 ◼   ► we were talking about, either last week or the week before,

00:09:51 ◼   ► that there was the ability for Apple to take advantage

00:09:55 ◼   ► of 7.5 watt charging, rather than the five watt charging

00:09:58 ◼   ► that they're currently using from Qi chargers.

00:10:00 ◼   ► So supported devices, I think all of the two

00:10:03 ◼   ► that Apple are selling, the Mophie wireless

00:10:05 ◼   ► and the Belkin Boostup, they will work with this.

00:10:08 ◼   ► So I think there has to be some pairing between them.

00:10:10 ◼   ► And Apple said that they would enable it in software

00:10:12 ◼   ► and it looks like 11.2 will get that.

00:10:14 ◼   ► So you can do the faster charging

00:10:16 ◼   ► via the 7.5 watt method if you have one of the supported

00:10:20 ◼   ► chargers once this drops.

00:10:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, and if you don't, it's a little confusing,

00:10:25 ◼   ► so I've got one of the Samsung one out here in my office,

00:10:28 ◼   ► and it supports fast charging on Android phones,

00:10:32 ◼   ► and it's, I mean, assuming it would work on the phone,

00:10:38 ◼   ► I don't know, I guess when the new Pellet Beta comes on,

00:10:40 ◼   ► I'll see if I've noticed it to be any faster,

00:10:42 ◼   ► but the Mophie I have inside definitely will,

00:10:45 ◼   ► So I'm excited about that.

00:10:47 ◼   ► But you know, even at five watts,

00:10:50 ◼   ► like just out here, like on the desk, it's fine.

00:10:53 ◼   ► But it'd be nice to be faster when you need it.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - This is still not the maximum wattage

00:10:58 ◼   ► that phones can do though, right?

00:10:59 ◼   ► Like the Android, the phones with Android phones do 15,

00:11:01 ◼   ► but it looks like the iPhone 10 is gonna max.

00:11:04 ◼   ► And I guess the eight as well will max out at 7.5.

00:11:08 ◼   ► - 15 for Qi charging on Android?

00:11:11 ◼   ► - Yeah. - That's nice.

00:11:12 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:11:13 ◼   ► - That's what, you know, you get those Samsung phones

00:11:15 ◼   ► whatever and they just charge up mega mega quickly it's because it takes the 15 watt.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Which is still now USB-C power delivery speed or power you know wattage

00:11:27 ◼   ► but it's nice I mean I considered putting the beta back on my iPhone again

00:11:33 ◼   ► I used to have the beta on my iPad and the iPhone then I kind of went back to

00:11:37 ◼   ► the stable one because I had some issues with the dock on iOS 11 and I

00:11:41 ◼   ► consider today maybe I should go back to putting 11.2 on my iPhone but I mean it's fine I got

00:11:47 ◼   ► a bunch of USB-C chargers here and when I want fast charging right now I'm fine with

00:11:53 ◼   ► the cable and I'm using the boost up primarily when I'm on the nightstand when we're watching

00:11:58 ◼   ► a movie or TV show and I want to quickly top up my iPhone before I you know listen to some

00:12:03 ◼   ► music or read a book and want some you know my brain FM fancy brain audio app.

00:12:11 ◼   ► neural network music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want my iPhone to be charged to be, you know,

00:12:16 ◼   ► to have like at least 50% at night because I fall asleep with that kind of

00:12:20 ◼   ► audio going on or I read articles with that focus type of music. It's not really

00:12:27 ◼   ► music, it's a bunch of sounds. But I want my iPhone to be charged at night so I'm

00:12:30 ◼   ► using the boost up on my nightstand and I don't really need the fast charging but

00:12:34 ◼   ► that's gonna be nice when the 11.2 ships point, yeah, point two, 11.2, not point

00:12:39 ◼   ► I wonder when 0.3 will go out because Apple seems to be really fast with

00:12:45 ◼   ► these betas and this iOS 11 release cycle this year and I wonder what kind

00:12:49 ◼   ► of feature we're gonna get in 11.3. HomePod support? Hmm. Yeah. But the HomePod

00:12:56 ◼   ► is supposed to be shipping like next month. It's not, I don't think it's gonna.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Oh, you don't think it's gonna? No, I think 2018. There's no way they miss

00:13:06 ◼   ► Christmas he said double it's too late for a future follow-up December's too

00:13:10 ◼   ► late for Christmas like if you want it if you want to do the holiday season

00:13:14 ◼   ► December's not the time to release a product I mean it's not November but

00:13:18 ◼   ► it's a hell of a lot there in the January I think though I think they'll

00:13:21 ◼   ► make it but um December 29th they'll make it I face we'll see we'll see

00:13:27 ◼   ► you're of pessimism from Myke hey no it's not just whatever like product

00:13:32 ◼   ► releases and it's not even that important like really home pod is not

00:13:35 ◼   ► actually that important. So I just don't see it. Like the iPhone has been taken center stage,

00:13:41 ◼   ► they've got a lot of stuff going on. Like do I think that the iMac and the HomePod could move?

00:13:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I do think they could. I have one quick comment about the case situation that I have

00:13:53 ◼   ► going on here. So I think I mentioned on the show that I ordered the Spigen case, the see-through

00:13:59 ◼   ► super thin case and it turns out that it was basically making the grip situation worse because

00:14:06 ◼   ► the glass of the iPhone X is actually grippier than the smooth plastic of this case. So I ordered,

00:14:12 ◼   ► because my iPhone X already sort of slipped out of my pocket twice. No! Yeah, so I ordered the

00:14:20 ◼   ► Apple Silicon case. I have a black one right here. All these cases work with the Qi charging so it's

00:14:26 ◼   ► fine. The Apple case does sort of remove the effect of holding this

00:14:33 ◼   ► beautiful glass object. It kind of dampens the excitement of holding

00:14:38 ◼   ► the iPhone X, but I also don't want to end up with a broken iPhone X.

00:14:42 ◼   ► And as long as at the bottom it doesn't interfere with swiping from

00:14:46 ◼   ► the bottom edge because it doesn't cover the bezel of what's left of the bezel

00:14:51 ◼   ► on the bottom edge. It only covers the sides and it does, you know, it sort of

00:14:55 ◼   ► breaks the illusion a little bit, but it's fine. I don't want to have a broken

00:14:59 ◼   ► iPhone X. I was thinking about this, right? I was going through this exact

00:15:03 ◼   ► same thought, like the illusion will fade away and then it'll just become the

00:15:07 ◼   ► phone again and I would like my phone to continue working past

00:15:11 ◼   ► that point. And again, we all have AppleCare+. I just don't, I still just

00:15:15 ◼   ► don't want to have to go through it. Yeah, because it's gonna be sad anyway.

00:15:20 ◼   ► Even if you have AppleCare+, you're still gonna break your iPhone. I mean, it's like

00:15:24 ◼   ► - I'm gonna go to the Apple store to get my phone for a second.

00:15:26 ◼   ► - Like having insurance on your car doesn't mean it's fine to get into an accident.

00:15:30 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:31 ◼   ► It's the same.

00:15:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:15:33 ◼   ► I drive with my eyes closed, I have insurance.

00:15:36 ◼   ► - It's fine, I have insurance, whatever.

00:15:37 ◼   ► No, it doesn't work like that.

00:15:41 ◼   ► - There was one more note before we move on about control center that somebody brought

00:15:46 ◼   ► up in the chat room.

00:15:47 ◼   ► The iPhone X has those 3D touch shortcuts on the lock screen for flashlight and camera,

00:15:54 ◼   ► I actually really like it's great to launch the camera quickly

00:15:56 ◼   ► it's

00:15:59 ◼   ► Those aren't on the the iPhone 8 or previous phones

00:16:03 ◼   ► I think is a concession that control center is too far away if you need flashlight and camera

00:16:08 ◼   ► And those are the two things you want really quickly then just put them on the lock screen

00:16:13 ◼   ► That's an that's an okay trade-off on the lock screen like I said, I'm using those and I like it

00:16:18 ◼   ► I don't really have the desire to customize them though

00:16:20 ◼   ► I've heard from some people who would like to swap out flashlight with something else for example, but it's um

00:16:26 ◼   ► This kind of Apple meeting users halfway like okay. These are the maybe the two most common things in control center and

00:16:32 ◼   ► you know

00:16:34 ◼   ► here you go, but I

00:16:36 ◼   ► Still think they got work to do. Yeah, I've seen people say that like oh what if we can do that click in thing?

00:16:42 ◼   ► Why don't we just do like a 3d touch on the home indicator to bring up control center or multitasking?

00:16:47 ◼   ► The reason that you shouldn't do that is because I will then be clicking that constantly to go to home again

00:16:52 ◼   ► Like it will be super easy to slide back into that old idea, right?

00:16:56 ◼   ► Like if I now have a part that I can click I mean let alone the fact that you will always

00:17:01 ◼   ► activate a UI thing in an application that you don't mean to and you'll never actually really get the

00:17:06 ◼   ► Your finger right over the right place

00:17:08 ◼   ► But if I have to start clicking again on the on a something right in the middle of the screen

00:17:12 ◼   ► I'm gonna be doing it constantly and it's not gonna be giving me what I want. I don't think that's right

00:17:17 ◼   ► - So if you press too hard on the very bottom edge

00:17:20 ◼   ► of the iPhone, there's the risk of your iPhone

00:17:22 ◼   ► doing a back flip.

00:17:23 ◼   ► If you're holding the iPhone with one hand

00:17:25 ◼   ► and you press hard and it just does a 180,

00:17:28 ◼   ► you don't wanna do that.

00:17:29 ◼   ► So I don't think 3D Touch at the very bottom

00:17:31 ◼   ► of the iPhone 10 is the solution.

00:17:33 ◼   ► - All right, before we go to our first break,

00:17:37 ◼   ► does Google Docs have drag and drop guys?

00:17:40 ◼   ► - No. - No.

00:17:41 ◼   ► - But another Google app just got support

00:17:43 ◼   ► for drag and drop on iOS 11.

00:17:45 ◼   ► I started in my updates, Google Photos supports in some shape or form drag and drop now.

00:17:51 ◼   ► So it seems like slowly Google is adopting iOS 11 features.

00:17:56 ◼   ► I have no idea when Google Docs if ever is going to get the drag and drop stuff.

00:18:01 ◼   ► Or the iPhone 10 support.

00:18:03 ◼   ► Which it also stood us out.

00:18:05 ◼   ► Come on Google, come on we believe in you Google.

00:18:10 ◼   ► Alright today's show is brought to you by our friends at Eero.

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00:20:22 ◼   ► So clips has been updated, version 2 of clips has brought with it a few things and I just

00:20:27 ◼   ► wanted to mention because I was I really I don't necessarily see myself using

00:20:33 ◼   ► this app any more than I've used it before but I was impressed by playing

00:20:38 ◼   ► around with it like there's a lot of UI refinement which so the app looks really

00:20:42 ◼   ► great it looks great on the iPhone 10 and the iPhone 10 also has these things

00:20:46 ◼   ► called selfie scenes which it uses a lot of the the true depth stuff to put you

00:20:53 ◼   ► into these like green screen environments right so like you are there but the backgrounds

00:20:59 ◼   ► have been replaced and there are like comic book worlds and space worlds and there's Star

00:21:04 ◼   ► Wars content as well it's really fun if you have an iPhone 10 you know it's free I think

00:21:09 ◼   ► you should just download it and play around with it because it's just a nice little tech

00:21:12 ◼   ► demo if anything else and they have a emoji sticker universe which I feel right at home

00:21:18 ◼   ► in.

00:21:20 ◼   ► That's Jeremy Burgess' bedroom.

00:21:22 ◼   ► That's where the scene takes place.

00:21:25 ◼   ► I think it's a really nice update.

00:21:27 ◼   ► They managed to make a lot of the UI elements a lot more clear, like they're using a lot

00:21:33 ◼   ► more text labels in place of just icons, for example.

00:21:36 ◼   ► I think that makes using the app a lot easier, especially this kind of app which is aimed

00:21:40 ◼   ► at the less tech-savvy maybe users.

00:21:44 ◼   ► These are different users than the folks who use Final Cut or even iMovie to an extent.

00:21:49 ◼   ► So I think it's a very clever update.

00:21:51 ◼   ► I don't use clips, I have no need for this kind of social sharing with putting myself

00:21:57 ◼   ► into a Tokyo-like environment.

00:22:00 ◼   ► But it's a cool demo.

00:22:01 ◼   ► I was honestly expecting this kind of stuff to be part of the camera experience.

00:22:06 ◼   ► And I could see how maybe in iOS 12 there could be like a portrait camera extension

00:22:11 ◼   ► point for developers to make these cool effects and allow users to take, you know, effect-based

00:22:18 ◼   ► portrait selfies in the camera, I could see developers being able to write their own scenes,

00:22:24 ◼   ► maybe using SyncIt or some other iOS API, and there's an extension and you can switch

00:22:30 ◼   ► scenes directly from the camera app instead of using clips. That could be fun.

00:22:33 ◼   ► Yeah, most definitely. And again, I know these things are tricky and this probably wasn't

00:22:40 ◼   ► what they expected, but an emoji should be in this app, right? It should be everywhere.

00:22:45 ◼   ► Yeah, especially because it's the whole avatar kit, private API, which I'm now, I have one

00:22:52 ◼   ► of the Mr. Rambo as an Animoji Studio, which is this custom app that you need to download

00:22:58 ◼   ► and install via Xcode with a Mac.

00:23:01 ◼   ► Which we don't necessarily endorse that you do. This is not an official thing by the connector

00:23:05 ◼   ► podcast. Just wanted to just put that out there.

00:23:08 ◼   ► Do you need a disclaimer? It's not like you're going to break your phone or something. It's

00:23:11 ◼   ► like...

00:23:12 ◼   ► The thing is, I love Rambo, he's a great guy, but I wouldn't want to recommend that people

00:23:17 ◼   ► just download software which hasn't necessarily gone through an approval process.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Sure, alright, yeah.

00:23:22 ◼   ► Do you know what I mean?

00:23:23 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, sure.

00:23:25 ◼   ► I get it, yeah.

00:23:26 ◼   ► But I have Animoji Studio, so unless Mr. Rambo is looking at my camera, I'm making stupid

00:23:30 ◼   ► faces while I'm trying to be a panda or a pig.

00:23:34 ◼   ► I mean, I don't think he does, but it's very fun because you can make videos as long as

00:23:41 ◼   ► you want you're not limited to 10 seconds and you can share them with extensions and you can record

00:23:45 ◼   ► the audio of your iPhone and it doesn't even the latest version on on GitHub it doesn't even pause

00:23:52 ◼   ► system audio so today I took a very stupid Animoji video with I believe in a thing called

00:23:57 ◼   ► love by the darkness playing in the background and I was the chicken and I sent the video to you

00:24:03 ◼   ► both and to Silvia and Silvia disapproved whereas Myke laughed at the video so I'm

00:24:10 ◼   ► Yeah, thank you Myke. I appreciate it.

00:24:12 ◼   ► Yeah, anyway, AvatarKit should be a thing of my life.

00:24:15 ◼   ► This is the app that should exist. I wish that he was able to release this on the App Store.

00:24:19 ◼   ► Like, I want this app to exist because it's so nice.

00:24:23 ◼   ► Even just like from a design perspective it's nicely done, right?

00:24:27 ◼   ► Yes it is.

00:24:29 ◼   ► Why can't we have this? I would like this.

00:24:32 ◼   ► I think it's a political thing, you know, like in that Apple wants the iMessage app to be used,

00:24:37 ◼   ► be used which I understand like I understand that why you would want that

00:24:40 ◼   ► because like you you warm if your Apple maybe it's a message app store to get a

00:24:47 ◼   ► little bit more love and this is a way to do that you know my colleagues in the

00:24:51 ◼   ► valley call this a growth hack like your colleagues in the valley interesting

00:24:57 ◼   ► interesting I wasn't aware of that but yes I guess I do know what I guess this

00:25:01 ◼   ► - This is a growth hack.

00:25:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:25:04 ◼   ► - So do we wanna talk more about the iPhone?

00:25:06 ◼   ► - Nah.

00:25:07 ◼   ► - Even more? - No, we're done.

00:25:08 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:25:09 ◼   ► - Just more. - There's more to talk about?

00:25:10 ◼   ► Okay.

00:25:11 ◼   ► - There's more to talk about.

00:25:12 ◼   ► So I thought we could expand upon our initial thoughts

00:25:16 ◼   ► from last week's show.

00:25:17 ◼   ► And there was something that I was really,

00:25:20 ◼   ► not really struggling with,

00:25:23 ◼   ► but really trying to understand.

00:25:24 ◼   ► And Syracuse said something on ATP

00:25:27 ◼   ► and it really summed up what I was feeling.

00:25:29 ◼   ► So I've been using reduced motion on iPhones

00:25:34 ◼   ► since it's been a thing.

00:25:36 ◼   ► I really didn't care for a lot of the animations

00:25:39 ◼   ► in iOS 7, 8, 9, and 10.

00:25:41 ◼   ► But on the iPhone 10, reduced motion is super janky.

00:25:45 ◼   ► So if you have it enabled and you swipe up to go home,

00:25:49 ◼   ► the animation starts, so the app sort of lifts

00:25:52 ◼   ► from the frame of the phone and then just cross fades.

00:25:54 ◼   ► And it's very jarring.

00:25:57 ◼   ► It feels like it's not quite right.

00:26:00 ◼   ► And so I turned it off because that was really distracting.

00:26:03 ◼   ► And I kind of figured, well, I'm not gonna like this

00:26:05 ◼   ► and I'll just wait for them to fix reduced motion.

00:26:08 ◼   ► But what I've come to realize and what John said

00:26:12 ◼   ► that I agree with is that I don't mind the animations

00:26:17 ◼   ► as much on the iPhone X because I am causing them to happen.

00:26:21 ◼   ► So when you press the home button and the app zooms out

00:26:26 ◼   ► or zooms in back into its little container,

00:26:29 ◼   ► I didn't cause that to happen.

00:26:31 ◼   ► The home button didn't kick off that animation.

00:26:35 ◼   ► But if I'm swiping up and the app follows my touch

00:26:39 ◼   ► and then I let go and it just continues its course

00:26:42 ◼   ► back into its little app icon,

00:26:45 ◼   ► then that feels more organic.

00:26:48 ◼   ► And it feels like I am not watching an animation,

00:26:52 ◼   ► I am causing an animation.

00:26:53 ◼   ► And that may sound like a silly distinction,

00:26:56 ◼   ► but I think it's really important

00:26:58 ◼   ► because it has let me be okay with all the animations

00:27:03 ◼   ► in this phone.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Now, yes, I wish they were faster,

00:27:06 ◼   ► and yes, some of them are.

00:27:07 ◼   ► Like if you swipe home and then go in the dock,

00:27:10 ◼   ► like the app goes up and then gets sucked back down,

00:27:11 ◼   ► it looks really stupid, but--

00:27:12 ◼   ► - Then the app kind of stretches, the icon stretches,

00:27:15 ◼   ► which is so weird.

00:27:16 ◼   ► - It's really weird.

00:27:19 ◼   ► But I, all in all, I think it's,

00:27:23 ◼   ► I think it's a better feeling sort of interaction,

00:27:27 ◼   ► for me at least, than on previous phones.

00:27:29 ◼   ► So I will check out reduced motion again

00:27:31 ◼   ► at some point in the future if they fix

00:27:32 ◼   ► the weird crossfade thing.

00:27:34 ◼   ► But until then, if that day ever comes,

00:27:37 ◼   ► I think I'm okay with it disabled.

00:27:39 ◼   ► Any thoughts?

00:27:40 ◼   ► - Mm-mm.

00:27:41 ◼   ► - Never have I spotted. - You guys like the

00:27:42 ◼   ► animations, you like the animations.

00:27:44 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:27:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is the part of the new iOS

00:27:49 ◼   ► and new iPhone discussions that I struggle to relate to,

00:27:51 ◼   ► like the RSI and the animations.

00:27:53 ◼   ► I totally understand, but I don't have these problems.

00:27:56 ◼   ► So I'm just listening and thinking of you as you talk, Steven.

00:27:59 ◼   ► - Well, lucky you, huh?

00:28:01 ◼   ► You're a young man.

00:28:03 ◼   ► - No, it's not that.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Anything I'm gonna say is gonna sound wrong, so yes.

00:28:09 ◼   ► (Steven laughing)

00:28:12 ◼   ► Steven, I understand.

00:28:13 ◼   ► - What about the notification privacy tool?

00:28:20 ◼   ► So this pre-existed, but Touch ID 2 made it so fast,

00:28:23 ◼   ► it was basically useless.

00:28:25 ◼   ► On the 10, your notifications were locked.

00:28:27 ◼   ► So it just says, you have a new iMessage

00:28:30 ◼   ► from Federico Vatici, but the content of that message

00:28:34 ◼   ► is not visible unless the phone is authenticated

00:28:37 ◼   ► with Face ID.

00:28:39 ◼   ► I think that's how it ships out of the box, I think.

00:28:42 ◼   ► But I have disabled it.

00:28:45 ◼   ► I found that to be slow, and if I just want to glance

00:28:49 ◼   ► up my phone and tap it to wake it up.

00:28:51 ◼   ► I want to see what's there.

00:28:52 ◼   ► I'm not in an open office environment.

00:28:54 ◼   ► I'm not leaving my phone out where the people see it.

00:28:56 ◼   ► I don't have those privacy concerns,

00:28:59 ◼   ► so I felt like I could set it back to the old way.

00:29:02 ◼   ► And I'm wondering if I'm a weirdo for that.

00:29:06 ◼   ► I appreciate that it's cool,

00:29:08 ◼   ► but I don't have the compelling need for it.

00:29:10 ◼   ► What about the two of you?

00:29:12 ◼   ► - So I love the option.

00:29:14 ◼   ► I really, really like it.

00:29:16 ◼   ► But I disabled it yesterday because I ran into a problem.

00:29:21 ◼   ► So as I think I've mentioned before,

00:29:23 ◼   ► I do a lot of driving every single week.

00:29:25 ◼   ► And when I'm driving, my girlfriend is in the passenger seat

00:29:28 ◼   ► and I delegate the role of checking

00:29:31 ◼   ► important notifications to her.

00:29:33 ◼   ► And sometimes, you guys don't even know,

00:29:36 ◼   ► but it's Sylvia replying to you

00:29:38 ◼   ► because I tell her what to reply.

00:29:40 ◼   ► - I like to try and forget about this.

00:29:42 ◼   ► I really wish she'd stop bringing it up.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Well, you're never going to forget about this.

00:29:47 ◼   ► - My hand.

00:29:48 ◼   ► - Because, anyway, so we tried over the past week to,

00:29:53 ◼   ► like I'm driving and she's holding the iPhone to my face

00:29:56 ◼   ► and I have attention awareness turned on,

00:29:59 ◼   ► which is super dangerous because you're looking at the road

00:30:01 ◼   ► and suddenly there's an iPhone in front of your face

00:30:03 ◼   ► and your girlfriend's saying unlock, unlock

00:30:05 ◼   ► and holding the iPhone and she gets upset

00:30:07 ◼   ► because it doesn't unlock because I'm looking at the road

00:30:09 ◼   ► and not at the iPhone.

00:30:10 ◼   ► So I had to disable the notification privacy feature yesterday

00:30:17 ◼   ► because Sylvia needed to reply to a bunch of messages from John.

00:30:22 ◼   ► And John was totally aware of this delegation going on.

00:30:25 ◼   ► So it's fine. He knows.

00:30:27 ◼   ► But I was thinking that it's never going to happen.

00:30:31 ◼   ► But there should be like...

00:30:32 ◼   ► You know how there's a do not disturb while driving mode?

00:30:35 ◼   ► I kind of wish just for me, if Apple will make a feature just for me,

00:30:40 ◼   ► which is like girlfriend mode while driving,

00:30:42 ◼   ► where the iPhone detects that I'm driving, it's in the car,

00:30:47 ◼   ► but also enables some features just for my girlfriend,

00:30:51 ◼   ► which is in the passenger, you know,

00:30:52 ◼   ► she's in the passenger seat,

00:30:54 ◼   ► she can do stuff with my iPhone.

00:30:56 ◼   ► That's never gonna happen.

00:30:57 ◼   ► So I'm not sure what I'm gonna do

00:30:59 ◼   ► because I really love the feature,

00:31:01 ◼   ► but also Silvia does a lot of replying and liking things

00:31:06 ◼   ► and checking emails as I'm driving.

00:31:09 ◼   ► Wait, did you say liking things?

00:31:12 ◼   ► - Also, yeah.

00:31:14 ◼   ► - I need to understand.

00:31:15 ◼   ► I need you to give me an example

00:31:18 ◼   ► in which this would need to happen.

00:31:20 ◼   ► - For example, maybe Ryan or John or you send me something

00:31:25 ◼   ► and she gives the little tap back.

00:31:27 ◼   ► - Oh, oh, I thought you meant like a tweet.

00:31:30 ◼   ► I was like, I don't understand why this is a thing

00:31:31 ◼   ► that needs to occur.

00:31:32 ◼   ► - Sometimes I have notifications for replies

00:31:37 ◼   ► from people I follow and the Twitter app tends to send you notifications when

00:31:42 ◼   ► like Twitter says things may be important people I think it's just

00:31:48 ◼   ► people I interact with the most so if like maybe Steven mentions me in

00:31:52 ◼   ► something and see the notification and then I tell her well put a like on

00:31:57 ◼   ► that tweet you know it's a social interaction it's good social behavior to

00:32:03 ◼   ► like things you don't want to France you don't want to fave and drive I mean

00:32:06 ◼   ► That's just irresponsible.

00:32:07 ◼   ► - It's not fave, it's like actually.

00:32:10 ◼   ► So I feel I'm compelled to correct you.

00:32:13 ◼   ► But anyway, this is a real problem.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Like I'm in the car, I'm in the car,

00:32:17 ◼   ► I don't wanna look at the iPhone.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I love the privacy features,

00:32:20 ◼   ► but also I have another person taking care of my iPhone.

00:32:23 ◼   ► So I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I don't know.

00:32:26 ◼   ► - Well, I have left the notification privacy on

00:32:31 ◼   ► because I don't have any of these situations

00:32:33 ◼   ► that I need to be concerned about.

00:32:34 ◼   ► I actually quite like it.

00:32:35 ◼   ► I like that it stacks the messages, honestly.

00:32:39 ◼   ► So the first time that I look at it,

00:32:40 ◼   ► I get a view of what's happening,

00:32:42 ◼   ► and then it recognizes me and then expands them all.

00:32:45 ◼   ► I like that.

00:32:46 ◼   ► I actually kinda like that.

00:32:48 ◼   ► - What about attention awareness?

00:32:51 ◼   ► So you can unlock your phone normally

00:32:54 ◼   ► where you need to be making eye contact

00:32:56 ◼   ► with the robot inside of it,

00:32:57 ◼   ► or you can basically just have it

00:33:00 ◼   ► as it sees your face to unlock.

00:33:01 ◼   ► That's an accessibility feature.

00:33:03 ◼   ► I've read some people turning it on

00:33:05 ◼   ► because they wear sunglasses all the time

00:33:07 ◼   ► and it doesn't work or something.

00:33:08 ◼   ► I've had no problems with it.

00:33:10 ◼   ► I've left this on the way it comes,

00:33:12 ◼   ► but I don't have any need to turn it off.

00:33:18 ◼   ► I know you guys are just wearing sunglasses all the time,

00:33:20 ◼   ► inside, outside, just 24/7.

00:33:24 ◼   ► Is that an issue?

00:33:25 ◼   ► - No, I mean, I love the feature.

00:33:26 ◼   ► I'm totally about eye contact.

00:33:28 ◼   ► I love the fact that I can look at the phone

00:33:31 ◼   ► and the iPhone knows and it does different things

00:33:34 ◼   ► depending on my attention.

00:33:35 ◼   ► I think it's awesome.

00:33:36 ◼   ► So I wanna keep that on.

00:33:38 ◼   ► - Same. - It's really well done, yeah.

00:33:40 ◼   ► - You two are really going for the titles today.

00:33:42 ◼   ► I can feel it, I can feel it.

00:33:45 ◼   ► - It's a race to the top.

00:33:46 ◼   ► - Uh-huh.

00:33:47 ◼   ► - All right, so let's talk about

00:33:50 ◼   ► the horizontal swipey multitasking.

00:33:54 ◼   ► So you have multitasking where you drag up and hold

00:33:57 ◼   ► or do like a semi-circle.

00:33:58 ◼   ► There's like five different ways to end it.

00:33:59 ◼   ► - There's like 70. - Which I've had--

00:34:00 ◼   ► - And people keep telling you all of them.

00:34:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're right.

00:34:04 ◼   ► been told about the one true way to activate multitasking constantly for the last week.

00:34:10 ◼   ► Everybody has their own way and all of them seem to be the best.

00:34:17 ◼   ► That's weird right?

00:34:18 ◼   ► It's weird that it's so sloppy.

00:34:19 ◼   ► You think there's one path to do this but no there's 100.

00:34:22 ◼   ► Anyways.

00:34:23 ◼   ► Yeah I think there is one but I think the animation is so slow that people are able

00:34:29 ◼   ► to do their own gestures and then by the time they finish their gesture they think it's

00:34:34 ◼   ► done but it was already been activated it just takes a while to like kick in.

00:34:38 ◼   ► So I'm still kind of doing the swipe from the right bottom right corner

00:34:44 ◼   ► occasionally but I've tried to use the official Apple way of just swipe up and

00:34:49 ◼   ► hold and I think it takes some practice but I you know I think it's

00:34:54 ◼   ► fine the pause even if conceptually I don't like the idea of introducing a

00:35:00 ◼   ► pause in a gesture, it's not so terrible. Like in practice I've been going back and forth with my

00:35:08 ◼   ► method, which is the best one Myke by the way, and the official one. And the difference, I mean,

00:35:17 ◼   ► it's not as bad as I imagined when I first devised my best method, so I'm probably gonna use the

00:35:26 ◼   ► the Apple one because it works okay.

00:35:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's the mail app of gestures.

00:35:32 ◼   ► You know, it's a little plain, not a lot of frills,

00:35:35 ◼   ► but it works every time.

00:35:36 ◼   ► - That's a great analogy, yes.

00:35:39 ◼   ► - And the swipey one, the half circle is like air mail.

00:35:42 ◼   ► It's flashy and has a bunch of integrations,

00:35:45 ◼   ► but then it crashes when you send it.

00:35:46 ◼   ► - Does it have a bunch?

00:35:47 ◼   ► That's totally not.

00:35:49 ◼   ► - It broke down a little bit on me, I'll admit.

00:35:51 ◼   ► So there's all of that world.

00:35:53 ◼   ► There's that world of the card UI multitasking situation.

00:35:58 ◼   ► But you can also horizontally swipe on the home indicator

00:36:01 ◼   ► and I think the idea is to move between

00:36:04 ◼   ► your most recent couple of apps.

00:36:05 ◼   ► I think I said on last week's show,

00:36:07 ◼   ► that was super great setting up a phone,

00:36:09 ◼   ► just having one password and then flipping back

00:36:12 ◼   ► to the app I was in and back and forth.

00:36:15 ◼   ► There's some weirdness there though

00:36:16 ◼   ► and I didn't know what it was doing until three days ago

00:36:20 ◼   ► and then I realized what it was doing

00:36:21 ◼   ► and I felt like my brain had become unbroken.

00:36:24 ◼   ► So if you think about the most recent app

00:36:28 ◼   ► is sort of on the right,

00:36:30 ◼   ► and then you move to the left or down

00:36:33 ◼   ► through your other most recent apps,

00:36:36 ◼   ► sort of in reverse chronological order.

00:36:38 ◼   ► When you first start though,

00:36:40 ◼   ► the app you're in is, if you move to the left,

00:36:44 ◼   ► you can move back to the right

00:36:45 ◼   ► and get back to the previous one.

00:36:47 ◼   ► But there's only like a window of about five seconds,

00:36:51 ◼   ► and then it all resets and the app you're in now

00:36:54 ◼   ► is the rightmost app.

00:36:55 ◼   ► So if you're fast enough, you can move to the left

00:36:58 ◼   ► and then back to the right.

00:36:59 ◼   ► But if you take too long and one password,

00:37:01 ◼   ► copying your password, then the app to the right's now

00:37:03 ◼   ► on the left and it's, once you understand what it's doing,

00:37:08 ◼   ► then it is more usable.

00:37:12 ◼   ► But it took a while for me to realize like, okay,

00:37:16 ◼   ► after some period of time, it's about five seconds,

00:37:19 ◼   ► then the stack sort of resets.

00:37:23 ◼   ► And I don't really understand why.

00:37:26 ◼   ► I guess--

00:37:29 ◼   ► - So there's a tiny asterisk here

00:37:32 ◼   ► that even if it's less than five seconds,

00:37:37 ◼   ► but if you interact with the app that you just switched to,

00:37:42 ◼   ► so like if you tap or if you scroll,

00:37:45 ◼   ► it's gonna become the most recently used app.

00:37:48 ◼   ► So I think the idea is we're gonna give you a window,

00:37:50 ◼   ► it's like four to five seconds,

00:37:52 ◼   ► and you can keep the same order of the apps that you saw

00:37:57 ◼   ► when you first opened the switcher.

00:37:58 ◼   ► So you can swipe left and right.

00:38:01 ◼   ► So you either, for the position to be reset,

00:38:04 ◼   ► so for the second app to become the most recently used one,

00:38:08 ◼   ► you either have to wait five seconds,

00:38:11 ◼   ► or you can swipe, wait a second, interact with the app,

00:38:16 ◼   ► and then it becomes the most recently used one.

00:38:19 ◼   ► So it depends on time and interaction.

00:38:22 ◼   ► It's sort of, it kind of reminds me in a different way

00:38:26 ◼   ► of the old iOS 9 split view app switcher

00:38:30 ◼   ► that sort of tried to account for the idea

00:38:34 ◼   ► of user interaction.

00:38:35 ◼   ► What is the last app that the user actually put

00:38:39 ◼   ► in split view?

00:38:41 ◼   ► It's sort of the same idea.

00:38:42 ◼   ► It's looking for time and it's looking for interactions.

00:38:46 ◼   ► So you either wait or you interact with the second app and then it becomes the first one again.

00:38:51 ◼   ► It's kind of complicated to explain.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Does this differ from the iPad one?

00:38:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Okay.

00:38:57 ◼   ► I think it does.

00:38:59 ◼   ► Hold on, maybe...

00:39:01 ◼   ► On iOS 11 on the iPad there's still some weird things going on.

00:39:06 ◼   ► Not with the main app switcher, but with the command tab app switcher.

00:39:10 ◼   ► Oh, I don't want to talk about that.

00:39:12 ◼   ► But like, because you can do the four finger swipe left and right on the iPad.

00:39:15 ◼   ► Right? And I wanted, I guess it's the same kind of thing, because I know

00:39:19 ◼   ► that if I do that, I can go between applications

00:39:22 ◼   ► and sometimes I'm going left and sometimes I'm going right.

00:39:24 ◼   ► So I expect it's a similar thing, but I don't even want to get into Command Tab today.

00:39:28 ◼   ► I don't have it in Vederico.

00:39:31 ◼   ► OK. All right. OK, sure.

00:39:33 ◼   ► So I want to do we have any other thoughts about the

00:39:37 ◼   ► I guess we need to talk about the size

00:39:41 ◼   ► of the phone compared to the Plus, if we have any more thoughts on that.

00:39:44 ◼   ► Because I've been I've been thinking about this and I've been looking at the rumors

00:39:47 ◼   ► of, you know, Apple working on three new iPhones next year,

00:39:50 ◼   ► one of them being the 10 Plus, let's call it that.

00:39:54 ◼   ► And I and I'm and I keep thinking that while I love the iPhone 10,

00:39:59 ◼   ► as soon as Apple has the 10 Plus, I'm going to jump on that

00:40:04 ◼   ► because I want the big screen.

00:40:06 ◼   ► But for now...

00:40:06 ◼   ► It's for the same reason we did it in the first place.

00:40:08 ◼   ► It's the same reasons. Yeah.

00:40:10 ◼   ► For now, I'm not having any particular issues when it comes to

00:40:15 ◼   ► like the amount of the number of tweets or emails or messages that I can see in a single screen.

00:40:21 ◼   ► Yeah, it's the same.

00:40:22 ◼   ► And I don't use my iPhone in landscape mode, so it's fine.

00:40:25 ◼   ► Yeah, no, no other thoughts on this.

00:40:30 ◼   ► I don't know about you guys.

00:40:31 ◼   ► I got used to it really quickly and that hasn't changed for me.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Like it feels very natural and did from like within the first hour of using it.

00:40:39 ◼   ► I adapted incredibly quickly to the screen size.

00:40:43 ◼   ► That's more what I'm focused on rather than the physical size.

00:40:45 ◼   ► Physical size is kind of whatever, but it was all about the screen size.

00:40:49 ◼   ► And it just feels as good.

00:40:50 ◼   ► It feels as big.

00:40:51 ◼   ► I'm totally fine with it.

00:40:52 ◼   ► I've gotten used to it as well pretty quickly, and I don't, I'm really on the fence about

00:40:57 ◼   ► a bigger 10 just for the, like if I'm, the reaching now is basically the way it was on

00:41:05 ◼   ► the Plus.

00:41:06 ◼   ► is more or less what it was to reach the top

00:41:08 ◼   ► of the Plus phone, but I don't want,

00:41:11 ◼   ► I don't know if I want a phone that I've got

00:41:13 ◼   ► to go further than that, and a 10 Plus

00:41:16 ◼   ► would, assumingly, have further reach

00:41:20 ◼   ► to get to those upper edges.

00:41:21 ◼   ► Now, if it came with a version of iOS

00:41:23 ◼   ► that made sense on big phones,

00:41:25 ◼   ► maybe I'd feel differently, and I may feel

00:41:26 ◼   ► differently once I see it.

00:41:27 ◼   ► But as of right now, I'm really happy with,

00:41:30 ◼   ► I have basically the same screen size,

00:41:33 ◼   ► roughly, that I had before, but in a form factor,

00:41:36 ◼   ► factor that's much more compact and is you know nicer in the pocket and and all

00:41:39 ◼   ► that stuff so I'm really happy I don't find myself longing for the days of the

00:41:44 ◼   ► plus Club because like Myke I get the benefits of that with this phone and I

00:41:49 ◼   ► don't know if the trade-offs for an even bigger phone would be worth it I guess

00:41:52 ◼   ► we'll see across that bridge when we get there but for now I know I'm not looking

00:41:56 ◼   ► at the at the 8 plus you know wondering what our life together would have been

00:42:00 ◼   ► like because I'm really happy with the X.

00:42:04 ◼   ► I've been trying to explain the iPhone X to my friends, which I think is interesting

00:42:11 ◼   ► because each one of them seems to be attracted to a different feature of the iPhone.

00:42:16 ◼   ► So generally speaking the screen is always the first reaction.

00:42:22 ◼   ► They look at the screen and they go like "Oh my god, it's all screen!"

00:42:25 ◼   ► Then they look at the bottom and there's no home button and every single one of them has

00:42:30 ◼   ► asked me so how do you unlock the phone and how do you close apps and by close

00:42:35 ◼   ► apps they mean opening the app switcher and force quitting all of the apps

00:42:39 ◼   ► because people do that so there's nothing I can do that that they're

00:42:42 ◼   ► beyond saving at this point and so every everybody seems to be interested in how

00:42:49 ◼   ► you how do you replace the home button and when you explain the little home bar

00:42:53 ◼   ► at the bottom they seem to be getting the idea and they're they are impressed

00:42:59 ◼   ► by the screen. What I think is a little more challenging is explaining the

00:43:03 ◼   ► benefits of OLED compared to LCD. So I've been, as a demo, because you know

00:43:09 ◼   ► explaining white color and explaining HDR is basically impossible for people

00:43:15 ◼   ► who don't necessarily care about these details, but I've been using the true

00:43:19 ◼   ► black backgrounds in some iPhone apps as an example. So I'm holding the iPhone and

00:43:26 ◼   ► opening like the grocery app that I'm using, it's got a black background and I

00:43:31 ◼   ► and I go like take a look at the top where the notch should be and you can you

00:43:36 ◼   ► cannot see that where the screen ends and where the notch begins and they all

00:43:41 ◼   ► go like oh yeah that's totally right and some of them have as a comparison they

00:43:46 ◼   ► bring up like a black photo on their iPhone 7 or iPhone 6s and they compare

00:43:51 ◼   ► the black and they all go like yes it's like I can totally see the difference

00:43:56 ◼   ► now so that's pretty awesome. Wireless charging also a big thumbs up when it

00:44:02 ◼   ► comes to demo I have a I've been basically my bedroom has sort of become

00:44:06 ◼   ► like a museum there's like guided tour and I and whenever a friend comes over

00:44:11 ◼   ► like go visit my nightstand you can see a wireless charger there I can put my

00:44:16 ◼   ► iPhone on top of their little little pad and it charges so like I'm giving these

00:44:20 ◼   ► stores of the iPhone X environment which they like the idea of just putting your

00:44:27 ◼   ► iPhone on a little surface and it charges which is pretty cool and finally

00:44:32 ◼   ► of course everybody asks about the battery because iOS 11 has been such a

00:44:36 ◼   ► huge problem for people when it comes to battery life and as I said last week

00:44:42 ◼   ► portrait selfies are the by far the best demo for the iPhone X. I know that

00:44:49 ◼   ► The iPhone 8 also has the same camera, but nobody cares about the iPhone 8.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Everybody just wants to look at the iPhone X, as they call it, and they are impressed

00:44:59 ◼   ► with the selfies.

00:45:01 ◼   ► I know that they're not the best quality, there's problems with the depth and the blur

00:45:05 ◼   ► and the bokeh, whatever.

00:45:07 ◼   ► They are impressed with the fact that they can look sexier or more...

00:45:13 ◼   ► That's basically what people do, right?

00:45:15 ◼   ► That's what...

00:45:16 ◼   ► Come on, let's just say that's what people do.

00:45:17 ◼   ► That's what I care about.

00:45:18 ◼   ► both men and women that's what they do with the selfies. They want to look better, they want to

00:45:23 ◼   ► look sexier when they send each other messages. Yes. So that is how I feel when I send you my

00:45:29 ◼   ► selfies that is true. Yeah that's why we put them on the the show page last week you know and then

00:45:34 ◼   ► people get that out of the world. I mean this is we can get into the philosophical aspects here but

00:45:41 ◼   ► I think that honestly looking but yeah because if you if you read for example like Freud you could

00:45:48 ◼   ► could argue that, you know, anyway.

00:45:49 ◼   ► - Right on selfies. - What are we doing?

00:45:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:45:52 ◼   ► - I mean, I'm just arguing that there's always

00:45:55 ◼   ► in the back of your mind, you know, wanting to look better,

00:45:58 ◼   ► social mechanics and all kinds of stuff.

00:45:59 ◼   ► Anyway, you look better with the iPhone 10 selfie camera.

00:46:04 ◼   ► So I think that a lot of people can relate to that.

00:46:08 ◼   ► And it makes for a fantastic demo,

00:46:10 ◼   ► even if it's not perfect from a photographic point of view.

00:46:13 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

00:46:16 ◼   ► I wanted to just add just a couple of quick things.

00:46:19 ◼   ► One, I have noticed the non-responsiveness in the cold.

00:46:24 ◼   ► This weekend I was out, weather's changing here.

00:46:28 ◼   ► I was trying to type on the keyboard

00:46:29 ◼   ► and it was missing a bunch of keys.

00:46:31 ◼   ► And I was at brunch with a friend

00:46:33 ◼   ► who also has the iPhone 10

00:46:34 ◼   ► and the exact same thing was happening to him.

00:46:36 ◼   ► So this is a real thing.

00:46:38 ◼   ► I mean Apple have already said they're gonna fix it

00:46:39 ◼   ► in software, which I believe,

00:46:41 ◼   ► but it is something that I have now observed.

00:46:45 ◼   ► And I can't remember the other thing that I was going to say.

00:46:48 ◼   ► So I guess we're just going to move on.

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00:48:04 ◼   ► So in the ongoing saga of "Is workflow alive or is workflow dead?" turns out workflow is

00:48:12 ◼   ► alive. Alive and kicking some would even say.

00:48:15 ◼   ► Yeah. It got a surprise update. I mean at this point every workflow update is a surprise

00:48:21 ◼   ► update but it got a 1.7.7 update.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Everyone's favorite update. The 1.7.7.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Okay, does that have a meaning?

00:48:34 ◼   ► Freud.

00:48:35 ◼   ► That number?

00:48:36 ◼   ► Freud said it.

00:48:38 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:39 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:40 ◼   ► So, this update brings support for the iPhone X, iOS 11, and some basic drag and drop on

00:48:45 ◼   ► the iPad to bring in content into your workflows.

00:48:50 ◼   ► I was happy to see this because it means that the workflow team is still working on this

00:48:55 ◼   ► app.

00:48:56 ◼   ► And I want to quickly talk about the drag and drop stuff on the iPad.

00:49:00 ◼   ► I don't know if you guys have played with Workflow.

00:49:02 ◼   ► I assume you Myke have, because you are also a fan of this application.

00:49:08 ◼   ► Steven, I'm not sure if you can.

00:49:11 ◼   ► I've played with it.

00:49:12 ◼   ► No, it's great.

00:49:13 ◼   ► You play?

00:49:14 ◼   ► Okay, all right.

00:49:15 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm just saying you like Automator and that kind of stuff.

00:49:16 ◼   ► You know the, I do like Automator, the iPhone X screenshot deal that's on that blog post

00:49:23 ◼   ► that I wrote on Control Center, I made that with Workflow, with the iPhone X mask workflow

00:49:28 ◼   ► that one of your writers put together, I don't remember who, sorry.

00:49:32 ◼   ► Yeah, Graham on Twitter. Former Max Stories writer.

00:49:37 ◼   ► Former, yeah, the blogger formerly known as Graham.

00:49:40 ◼   ► He's still known as Graham.

00:49:42 ◼   ► But, so you can now, on the iPad with iOS 11, you can now pick something up, it can be text,

00:49:49 ◼   ► it can be an image, it can be a link, whatever, and you can drop it on top of the little play button

00:49:55 ◼   ► with the play bar at the top of the workflow editor.

00:49:59 ◼   ► So there's like a blue bar with a play button in the middle.

00:50:02 ◼   ► You can drop stuff there.

00:50:03 ◼   ► And if you do, that item, that content will become the input item of a workflow.

00:50:11 ◼   ► So for example, let's say that you have a workflow that just does, for example, Quick Look.

00:50:15 ◼   ► It brings up a Quick Look preview.

00:50:17 ◼   ► You can pick up an image from the Photos app,

00:50:20 ◼   ► you drop it into the workflow and the quick look preview will show you a full screen preview of the image.

00:50:27 ◼   ► And you can apply this method to all kinds of items that you can drag and drop on iOS 11.

00:50:33 ◼   ► I have a workflow for, for example, picking up a link from Safari and I drop it there and it saves the link to my Trello board for Club Max stories.

00:50:42 ◼   ► stories. I have another that gets the markdown from Bear, the note-taking app, that sends the,

00:50:52 ◼   ► you know, does a bunch of things for markdown that I need and sends them to Ulysses. So I think it's

00:50:57 ◼   ► interesting that the workflow has been able to take advantage of this API, but I'm a little

00:51:04 ◼   ► surprised, honestly, that I'm both surprised and not surprised when I think about it. Not surprised

00:51:10 ◼   ► because I know that this is not a major update, this is not a major rewrite of the app, it's still

00:51:17 ◼   ► the same workflow that Apple acquired, they're sort of, they're improving a lot of the existing

00:51:23 ◼   ► aspects and they're fixing things that were broken and so the app is still heavily based on the

00:51:28 ◼   ► content graph engine that was in place before Apple bought workflow. But I'm surprised that

00:51:36 ◼   ► The drag-and-drop framework on iOS 11 is an extremely rich framework in that every item,

00:51:43 ◼   ► for example, that you pick up and drop into another application is advertised by the system

00:51:49 ◼   ► in multiple formats. So a link, for example, it can be just a link or it can be the title of the

00:51:54 ◼   ► web page and the link, or an image that you pick up from a web page in Safari can be both a jpeg

00:52:01 ◼   ► and a link and so forth for rich text and PDF documents.

00:52:05 ◼   ► There's multiple

00:52:07 ◼   ► flavors of an item baked into the the little thing that you drag.

00:52:13 ◼   ► And Workflow doesn't see all these variations at all.

00:52:16 ◼   ► It only sees one.

00:52:19 ◼   ► Workflow infers what the data should be, and it doesn't allow you to inspect

00:52:25 ◼   ► the data items contained within the drag item.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Which feels like something Workflow would do.

00:52:31 ◼   ► Yeah, basically it does this behind the scenes. It assumes for you, well, you picked up an image from Safari, of course you just want the jpg.

00:52:42 ◼   ► And I ran into these problems when I was testing Workflow with Mail, for example. I couldn't extract the message link to an individual email message.

00:52:52 ◼   ► message which I know that the drag-and-drop API exposes to compatible

00:52:57 ◼   ► apps but workflow doesn't want to get that link it only gets I think the

00:53:01 ◼   ► subject line of the message so I run into these limitations already and I

00:53:05 ◼   ► know why workflow has to do this now because it this is not workflow 2.0 it's

00:53:10 ◼   ► not a completely new app but the power user inside of me just kind of wishes

00:53:17 ◼   ► that this was possible

00:53:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I will say that like I was surprised that the app wasn't, the drag and drop didn't

00:53:29 ◼   ► work the way that I had expected, right? Like I was kind of, I was like dragging an image

00:53:34 ◼   ► onto a workflow in the main screen and that doesn't do anything, right? You have to like

00:53:38 ◼   ► open the workflow and drop it into that specific area where the play button is, which is fine.

00:53:43 ◼   ► I mean, and I've, I just had to get used to that and I'm more than anything, I'm happy

00:53:48 ◼   ► that exists right like I already I have a um a workflow that just very simply removes photo

00:53:54 ◼   ► metadata right like if I want to share them or whatever I'm taking photos in my home or something

00:53:58 ◼   ► because of Gary the privacy clown so I can very easily now just open photos and I just grab the

00:54:05 ◼   ► image and just drag it onto the workflow which works great for me and it's an easier way of

00:54:10 ◼   ► doing it than to just open the photo picker honestly like it's just it's I'm usually starting

00:54:15 ◼   ► with the image in that case rather than opening workflow in the beginning. So I'm already

00:54:20 ◼   ► there and I'll just use it. So it works nicely but there is some more stuff that I would

00:54:27 ◼   ► love to see the app do and honestly considering where we are right now I do believe that there

00:54:33 ◼   ► will be further interesting development for this application purely because they did something.

00:54:40 ◼   ► Right? Like it's always, you know, you just kind of want to see signs of life.

00:54:43 ◼   ► And the fact that this has occurred in any way continues to fill me with optimism that the application will have a life in some manner, whether it's continuing to advance as itself or to become a more integrated part of iOS.

00:55:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, and to that, I wanted to add that

00:55:03 ◼   ► I feel pretty good about thinking that the Workflow team

00:55:09 ◼   ► is working on a major substantial update to Workflow

00:55:14 ◼   ► that is not 1.7.7.

00:55:17 ◼   ► This version that we got last week

00:55:20 ◼   ► isn't the kind of major update

00:55:22 ◼   ► that required five months of work since iOS 11 came out.

00:55:26 ◼   ► So I have a pretty good feeling about the fact

00:55:29 ◼   ► that some new version of workflow 2.0 or maybe not even 2.0,

00:55:34 ◼   ► maybe a system feature, it exists

00:55:36 ◼   ► and it's currently being developed inside Apple.

00:55:39 ◼   ► But what we don't know is,

00:55:41 ◼   ► is that gonna be another app on the App Store

00:55:44 ◼   ► subject to API limitations like other third-party apps,

00:55:48 ◼   ► or is that gonna be a native automation layer

00:55:52 ◼   ► on top of iOS built right inside of iOS

00:55:55 ◼   ► as a system app, as a system framework?

00:55:58 ◼   ► This is the kind of discussion that we had when Workflow was acquired a few months ago.

00:56:02 ◼   ► And it's still not clear what Apple's plans are here.

00:56:06 ◼   ► I just hope that the guiding light for the Workflow team and Apple should be the fact

00:56:14 ◼   ► that a lot of pro users, especially on the iPad, they depend on this kind of app, on

00:56:22 ◼   ► workflow, to be able to work better on iOS. And they shouldn't forget just, you

00:56:31 ◼   ► know, maybe just how much goodwill is there to be lost by turning workflow

00:56:36 ◼   ► into a simplified recipe, making recipe in the sense of automation app. I hope

00:56:44 ◼   ► that they keep in mind that the iPad, especially now that sales are picking up

00:56:49 ◼   ► again and the iPad Pro idea seems to be working, a lot of those Pro users they

00:56:55 ◼   ► want more and they want more powerful stuff, they don't want to have... there's an

00:56:59 ◼   ► argument to be made for making automation easier for everyone and I

00:57:03 ◼   ► totally get it, but also the iPad Pro it's right there in the name, it's for

00:57:07 ◼   ► Pro users, for people who want to work on this device, so whatever new version

00:57:11 ◼   ► they're working on I hope they they're not forced to remove a bunch of advanced

00:57:17 ◼   ► features or to cut back on the web API stuff. I think we're gonna see, I hope,

00:57:24 ◼   ► and you know, we're gonna see a new workflow with a new design, with new

00:57:29 ◼   ► features eventually, but my concern is that maybe there's some pressure

00:57:35 ◼   ► internally to make that a even more simplified version of workflow, which is

00:57:40 ◼   ► already, you know, it's by far the easiest automation system to get started with.

00:57:46 ◼   ► even compared to Automator, and it doesn't have shell actions. But it's already quite simple.

00:57:55 ◼   ► I don't want to see Apple saying, "Well, workflow was too complicated and now we made it easier,

00:58:00 ◼   ► but you cannot do web APIs anymore. You cannot do interapp communication anymore."

00:58:04 ◼   ► I, actually weirdly, the further we go from the acquisition, the more confident I am in

00:58:13 ◼   ► Workflow's long-lasting life.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Because when this happened, we laid out, at least you laid out Federico, a bunch of different

00:58:24 ◼   ► scenarios, and I actually think that we are in one of the best case scenario groups currently,

00:58:30 ◼   ► which is that the app is continuing to be updated.

00:58:33 ◼   ► It is not being updated at the pace that it was previously,

00:58:38 ◼   ► which was what we expected,

00:58:40 ◼   ► but it is being updated and it is taken advantage of new system features.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Like I can't ask more than that, honestly, you know, really,

00:58:48 ◼   ► ideally all I want is maintenance. That's all I want.

00:58:52 ◼   ► Like because I very rarely even open the workflow app, right?

00:58:57 ◼   ► Like I operate most of my workflows from the notification center widget, honestly.

00:59:03 ◼   ► And that works great for me and as long as that stuff keeps working, I'm going to be

00:59:06 ◼   ► really happy.

00:59:07 ◼   ► But the fact that they're actually adding in new features and supporting new system

00:59:11 ◼   ► stuff and the new UI things in the iPhone 10, I'm like, "Great, this is fantastic."

00:59:16 ◼   ► I'm super, super happy about it.

00:59:18 ◼   ► So I continue to be optimistic and have faith in workflows' long and fruitful life that

00:59:25 ◼   ► we'll see before it.

00:59:26 ◼   ► As far as workflow is concerned we are at this point in the good timeline.

00:59:33 ◼   ► Not the best one but also not the dark one.

00:59:36 ◼   ► So right now we cannot complain right now. That's all I'm saying.

00:59:40 ◼   ► We cannot. We're in the good timeline.

00:59:42 ◼   ► Alright, should we take a break?

00:59:45 ◼   ► Yes.

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01:01:38 ◼   ► show and Relay FM. So we are about to talk about the Amazon Echo assistant and service

01:01:48 ◼   ► and tubes. Just because this topic is going to be so fraught with naming stuff, I am throwing

01:01:57 ◼   ► an amnesty with the name, so if you want to use the name, the word that begins and ends

01:02:03 ◼   ► in A, you can use it freely and I am just letting everybody know right now if they need

01:02:07 ◼   ► to go and mute any speaker systems or etc etc, you can do that.

01:02:12 ◼   ► I'm going to mute mine. I'm not going to mute mine right now.

01:02:14 ◼   ► perfect you mute yours mine is muted already we're all muted if you want to

01:02:18 ◼   ► listen to this and you're scared you should mute too I see the floor to you

01:02:24 ◼   ► Alexa Alexa Alexa Alexa Alexa that's not necessary though good is it I've always

01:02:30 ◼   ► wanted to do these on a podcast Alexa oh man that you know like I give you this

01:02:36 ◼   ► you just don't go crazy with it oh okay Alexa buy a washing machine see now this

01:02:41 ◼   ► Alexa, why are we talking about Alexa today?

01:02:43 ◼   ► You wanted to.

01:02:44 ◼   ► There's a bunch of stuff.

01:02:46 ◼   ► There's a bunch of news, right?

01:02:48 ◼   ► So these, I saw a few Alexa-powered devices a few weeks ago, I think it was in October,

01:02:54 ◼   ► and we wanted to talk about this as it relates to the idea of the Amazon Echo as an ecosystem of products and services.

01:03:01 ◼   ► So the first one is the Garmin Speak.

01:03:04 ◼   ► which is this tiny 1.5 inches little display that you put in your car.

01:03:11 ◼   ► It's got like a suction cup attachment to the windshield.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And it gives you directions.

01:03:18 ◼   ► It's got lane guidance type of navigation.

01:03:22 ◼   ► It uses an app called Garmin Speak, which integrates with the Alexa web services.

01:03:29 ◼   ► and it allows you to use, of course, it's the first device with Alexa and navigation built into the same product,

01:03:36 ◼   ► and it also can use some Amazon Echo skills.

01:03:40 ◼   ► So the web-based features that you enable on your Amazon account,

01:03:45 ◼   ► you can take advantage of some of those using the government speak in your car.

01:03:49 ◼   ► So for example, you can save new tasks into Todoist while you're driving, totally hands-free,

01:03:55 ◼   ► just by talking to Alexa in the car, which I think is fascinating.

01:03:58 ◼   ► But of course as other API based Alexa products, you cannot control Spotify playback or any

01:04:07 ◼   ► other playback that I think is not the Amazon music service, which is the limitation that

01:04:15 ◼   ► we've been talking about over and over.

01:04:18 ◼   ► These devices, these third party Amazon Echo clients, they cannot control music playback

01:04:25 ◼   ► through Spotify, which I think arguably is the most popular one.

01:04:28 ◼   ► It doesn't support the Garmin, the Garmin Speak, doesn't support texting or

01:04:35 ◼   ► placing phone calls using Alexa, which is still exclusive to the home, the, you

01:04:41 ◼   ► know, the official Amazon Echo speakers.

01:04:44 ◼   ► And the second one, you know, Amazon tried to do the Alexa portable speaker before

01:04:50 ◼   ► with the Echo Tap, maybe?

01:04:54 ◼   ► Was that the name?

01:04:55 ◼   ► You know, it was a Bluetooth speaker that nobody basically bought.

01:05:00 ◼   ► And now, I think Logitech, through their Ultimate Ears company, they are releasing these two

01:05:09 ◼   ► speakers, the Blast and the Mega Blast, which kind of sounds like a Pokemon evolution, but

01:05:17 ◼   ► it's actually two speakers.

01:05:20 ◼   ► So Blast and Megablast, they retail for $229 and $299 respectively and they are portable

01:05:30 ◼   ► speakers with Wi-Fi chips inside and the usual microphone array running around the speaker

01:05:36 ◼   ► that allows you to call up Alexa from a portable Bluetooth device.

01:05:42 ◼   ► They got these microphones under the fabric of the speaker which I think looks pretty

01:05:46 ◼   ► cool and of course the Blast and the Megablast.

01:05:49 ◼   ► I know a bunch of friends who have the old version.

01:05:53 ◼   ► I just love Collinman.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Mega Blast is so amazing.

01:05:57 ◼   ► The Mega Blast.

01:05:58 ◼   ► The Mega Blast, it's like if Blastoise had a passion for music, it would totally rock

01:06:04 ◼   ► the Mega Blast.

01:06:07 ◼   ► So they say it's the loudest speaker ever produced by Ultimate Ears.

01:06:14 ◼   ► But of course you can use Alexa, you can use the skills, and Spotify playback is absent

01:06:20 ◼   ► from the speakers as well.

01:06:21 ◼   ► You cannot...

01:06:22 ◼   ► Why is this do you think?

01:06:24 ◼   ► What is Spotify's problem here?

01:06:27 ◼   ► I don't think it's Spotify's problem.

01:06:28 ◼   ► I think it's Amazon's problem.

01:06:30 ◼   ► That maybe they saw this kind of scenario play out with the same growth hack mindset

01:06:37 ◼   ► that we talked about, Apple.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Maybe if we limit the API so it doesn't work with competing music services,

01:06:44 ◼   ► well suddenly everyone is gonna sign up for Amazon Music. That's my idea.

01:06:48 ◼   ► Well of course it didn't happen, even though Amazon Music has some pretty cool features I think.

01:06:53 ◼   ► They have the lyrics with the, what's it called, x-ray functionality,

01:06:57 ◼   ► something like that, borrowed from the Kindle I think.

01:07:00 ◼   ► But of course you know it's nearly not as popular as Spotify or Apple Music,

01:07:06 ◼   ► But it's particularly, you know, it's such a huge problem that you're selling a speaker with Amazon Echo integration, and it doesn't support Spotify.

01:07:18 ◼   ► A music speaker that doesn't work with the most popular music streaming service in the world.

01:07:23 ◼   ► It's kind of, it's a contractory experience in that sense.

01:07:27 ◼   ► And so, you know, they also come with, I just looked at the notes again, they also have this, I think it's very interesting.

01:07:34 ◼   ► they have a charging station, it's called the Power App,

01:07:38 ◼   ► so you just place the speaker vertically

01:07:40 ◼   ► on top of the station and it charges,

01:07:42 ◼   ► I think it's super cool.

01:07:43 ◼   ► Anyway, all of this, because I,

01:07:47 ◼   ► we wanted to talk about the Echo,

01:07:48 ◼   ► and there's new Echos that you guys, I think, received,

01:07:51 ◼   ► and there's this whole idea of Alexa,

01:07:54 ◼   ► not just as the thing that you have in your kitchen,

01:07:57 ◼   ► but as a wider ecosystem of devices and services

01:08:01 ◼   ► and third-party skills all living together

01:08:04 ◼   ► in and outside the house,

01:08:05 ◼   ► which I think it's an interesting concept.

01:08:09 ◼   ► And consider from this perspective of,

01:08:13 ◼   ► it's not just one device

01:08:15 ◼   ► that you put in a room in your house,

01:08:18 ◼   ► it's more of a bunch of web services,

01:08:21 ◼   ► not even smartphone integrations,

01:08:24 ◼   ► but web integrations all working together,

01:08:26 ◼   ► all living together for this ecosystem of a smart assistant.

01:08:30 ◼   ► And I wanted to talk about that as it correlates to Siri,

01:08:32 ◼   ► which is kind of taking the opposite direction

01:08:35 ◼   ► with the HomePod and the iPhone.

01:08:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:08:39 ◼   ► - The opposite worse direction, you mean?

01:08:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:08:42 ◼   ► So what about the new Echo,

01:08:45 ◼   ► the little one?

01:08:49 ◼   ► It's just called the Echo.

01:08:50 ◼   ► - Little baby Echo.

01:08:51 ◼   ► I'm a big fan, so I had the full size plastic thing.

01:08:56 ◼   ► I did the black cloth cover.

01:08:59 ◼   ► It looks really nice.

01:09:00 ◼   ► It's in our kitchen.

01:09:00 ◼   ► I know we talked about it on the show,

01:09:03 ◼   ► like is it gonna get dirty or whatever?

01:09:05 ◼   ► So far, mine's been okay, but it's kinda far away

01:09:08 ◼   ► from the stove or any food prep area.

01:09:11 ◼   ► I think it looks a lot nicer.

01:09:12 ◼   ► From a functionality standpoint,

01:09:15 ◼   ► it seems to hear us just as well.

01:09:18 ◼   ► I do really miss the ring.

01:09:20 ◼   ► So on the tall Echo, the change of the volume,

01:09:22 ◼   ► the whole top of it rotated around.

01:09:24 ◼   ► So you can just reach over and turn it,

01:09:26 ◼   ► and the LEDs showed you the volume.

01:09:28 ◼   ► It was a really nice interaction,

01:09:30 ◼   ► and the new Echo just uses plus and minus buttons.

01:09:33 ◼   ► And of course you can change the volume with your voice.

01:09:36 ◼   ► But I really like the ring,

01:09:37 ◼   ► and it's a little disappointing that it's gone.

01:09:41 ◼   ► But it's fine, the buttons are fine,

01:09:43 ◼   ► they work well, they feel good.

01:09:45 ◼   ► And so yeah, I think that's all positive.

01:09:50 ◼   ► And I think it sounds better.

01:09:52 ◼   ► This was actually a point of contention in my household.

01:09:55 ◼   ► Amazon has had, best I can tell,

01:09:56 ◼   ► two software updates for this Echo, tweaking the sound.

01:10:01 ◼   ► And I think when we first unboxed ours,

01:10:04 ◼   ► it was really kind of muddy and like bass heavy

01:10:07 ◼   ► and sort of sounded not great and there was an update

01:10:11 ◼   ► and I think it sounds better than the tall Echo.

01:10:15 ◼   ► My wife disagrees and she prefers the way

01:10:17 ◼   ► the old Echo sounded.

01:10:18 ◼   ► I think it's just because she was used to it.

01:10:21 ◼   ► The old Echo lacked some of the low end the new one has

01:10:24 ◼   ► So it did sound sort of crisper in a way,

01:10:27 ◼   ► but I think the new one overall sounds better.

01:10:30 ◼   ► And the tall echoes now in our bedroom

01:10:32 ◼   ► and we're listening to music back there.

01:10:34 ◼   ► And I wanna talk about music in a minute,

01:10:36 ◼   ► but so far I've been really happy with it.

01:10:39 ◼   ► I like that it looks less like a tech product in our kitchen

01:10:42 ◼   ► and that was sort of the big reason for me updating.

01:10:44 ◼   ► So yeah, thumbs up from the Hackett household, I think.

01:10:48 ◼   ► - I'm fine, I mean, it's fine.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Honestly, I haven't really noticed any difference to it in any major way, right?

01:10:58 ◼   ► Like I like you miss the ring thing and like rather than the buttons. I

01:11:02 ◼   ► Like the set the size because it's just smaller. It's cuter. It's out of the way more

01:11:06 ◼   ► I like the new material because I think it's better for a kitchen environment

01:11:10 ◼   ► I have no real way of discerning any sound quality difference. I can't tell if there if it's any different

01:11:16 ◼   ► Maybe I just don't have the ears for that

01:11:19 ◼   ► The biggest effect this has had is it's put another echo in my house

01:11:22 ◼   ► So we did the echo shuffle and we now have an echo in every room

01:11:27 ◼   ► So I have one in the living room stash kitchen

01:11:31 ◼   ► One in my office and one in our bedroom and we really like that a lot because now we have complete full house coverage

01:11:37 ◼   ► Without needing to like shout an echo

01:11:40 ◼   ► Basically any room that we're gonna be in where we need to control something like the lights

01:11:44 ◼   ► Or we're asking things like what's the weather like we now have an echo there so we can just talk to it

01:11:49 ◼   ► So it's making that stuff even better

01:11:52 ◼   ► The you know, I know it's silly to have like so many of these devices

01:11:55 ◼   ► But the more likely you are to have coverage wherever you want to get the attention of the thing

01:12:02 ◼   ► The more likely you are to use it, I think

01:12:04 ◼   ► So I'm really happy with that and the new echo is fine

01:12:07 ◼   ► It is done exactly what I wanted. I wasn't expecting anything more out of it than this. Honestly, it's been great

01:12:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I spoke a lot about like the,

01:12:18 ◼   ► our dance and music services using Spotify.

01:12:24 ◼   ► My wife and I are both using Apple Music,

01:12:26 ◼   ► but I'm still paying for Spotify just for the Echos.

01:12:30 ◼   ► And so I found, it's kind of actually hard to find

01:12:32 ◼   ► on Amazon's website, but they have a $3.99 a month

01:12:37 ◼   ► Echo only Amazon music plan.

01:12:40 ◼   ► That's been really great.

01:12:41 ◼   ► We haven't found anything that we wanna listen to

01:12:43 ◼   ► that that Amazon Music plan doesn't have.

01:12:46 ◼   ► The free Amazon Music plan is garbage,

01:12:48 ◼   ► but four bucks a month you get a bunch of good stuff.

01:12:52 ◼   ► So I thought, great, I'm paying four bucks a month,

01:12:53 ◼   ► this is awesome.

01:12:55 ◼   ► We get the new Echo, the old Echo gets demoted

01:12:57 ◼   ► to the bedroom, and the new Echo's in the kitchen,

01:13:00 ◼   ► and I'm in the kitchen like the next day,

01:13:02 ◼   ► I'm like, hey Alexa, you know, play a song,

01:13:05 ◼   ► and it says there's no music service set up.

01:13:08 ◼   ► What do you wanna do?

01:13:10 ◼   ► Well, that's weird, so I open the app.

01:13:12 ◼   ► And then I discover that $3.99 a month

01:13:14 ◼   ► is locked to one Echo.

01:13:16 ◼   ► And if you wanna use it with more than one Echo,

01:13:18 ◼   ► which we do now, it's $7.99 a month.

01:13:21 ◼   ► So, not paying $7.99 a month, have this on two Echos.

01:13:25 ◼   ► It's still cheaper than Spotify.

01:13:26 ◼   ► Spotify felt like overkill for this

01:13:28 ◼   ► 'cause we don't use any of the Playlist stuff

01:13:30 ◼   ► or any of the Discover Weekly.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Like Spotify, its only interaction in our household

01:13:35 ◼   ► was through the Echo.

01:13:37 ◼   ► So the Amazon Music one's a couple bucks cheaper.

01:13:41 ◼   ► This is not about the $2 a month.

01:13:43 ◼   ► It's really just kind of understanding

01:13:44 ◼   ► what these features are,

01:13:46 ◼   ► 'cause Amazon struggles, I think,

01:13:48 ◼   ► in explaining the different music plans that it offers.

01:13:52 ◼   ► And once you're in, though, it's cool.

01:13:55 ◼   ► So I'm in the Echo in the kitchen,

01:13:59 ◼   ► and it says, "Hey, you can upgrade

01:14:01 ◼   ► "from $3.99 to $7.99 on the month."

01:14:03 ◼   ► Just asked the Echo to do that.

01:14:04 ◼   ► And so I said, "Hey, upgrade my music plan."

01:14:07 ◼   ► and it wanted to confirm my four digit PIN,

01:14:11 ◼   ► and it did, and then we're off to the races.

01:14:13 ◼   ► So we're using that Amazon Music Echo Only plan,

01:14:17 ◼   ► still using Apple Music,

01:14:18 ◼   ► and that feels like a good setup for our family.

01:14:20 ◼   ► And I'm not using any of the third party Alexa products,

01:14:26 ◼   ► so I'm not running into like,

01:14:27 ◼   ► well Spotify works on this one and not this one,

01:14:30 ◼   ► so I'm kinda sidestepping all of that,

01:14:32 ◼   ► but it's still really complicated.

01:14:34 ◼   ► There's no great,

01:14:36 ◼   ► I mean Spotify is the closest I guess,

01:14:37 ◼   ► but there's no like one music service

01:14:40 ◼   ► that's like a surefire winner

01:14:42 ◼   ► if you are a multi-platform family

01:14:45 ◼   ► or a multi-platform user even.

01:14:47 ◼   ► So, you know Spotify is great

01:14:49 ◼   ► unless you have a third party Echo deal

01:14:50 ◼   ► or you're on the Mac a lot and don't like the Mac app,

01:14:53 ◼   ► like I don't like the Mac app.

01:14:54 ◼   ► Apple Music's really awesome,

01:14:55 ◼   ► but you have to have a HomePod and no one,

01:14:57 ◼   ► you know with an Echo I think is gonna move

01:14:59 ◼   ► to a HomePod for Siri, so like,

01:15:02 ◼   ► it's still a very like complicated matrix of decisions

01:15:04 ◼   ► to pick the music streaming service that's right.

01:15:07 ◼   ► And so maybe a lot of people do like what we do

01:15:09 ◼   ► and just bunt and pay for two, which is ridiculous.

01:15:12 ◼   ► But that's kind of where we are.

01:15:14 ◼   ► And I think this is where we'll stay.

01:15:17 ◼   ► We like having the two big echoes

01:15:20 ◼   ► and having music in the bedroom and stuff.

01:15:21 ◼   ► But it's definitely was something

01:15:24 ◼   ► I wasn't expecting to have to deal with again.

01:15:26 ◼   ► I thought we were kind of settled.

01:15:27 ◼   ► But that's where we are.

01:15:30 ◼   ► And hopefully Amazon can do a better job

01:15:34 ◼   ► in the future at making the music side a little bit simpler for its users.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I just checked again and a lot of these companies like Garmin and there's

01:15:43 ◼   ► another one that The Verge is writing about today, they also have another Alexa

01:15:48 ◼   ► accessory for the car which is cheaper. It's like a little dongle that you

01:15:52 ◼   ► attach to your car's Bluetooth and it brings Alexa integration. It's $49. All

01:15:58 ◼   ► these companies are saying that Spotify integration is in the works, so it seems

01:16:03 ◼   ► that maybe Amazon changed their mind and not gonna allow in the Alexa Web Services API Spotify

01:16:09 ◼   ► playback. So that's gonna be interesting because it means that, you know, I feel like once I have

01:16:17 ◼   ► Spotify integration on all of these devices, whether it's the Sonos, which I also kind of

01:16:23 ◼   ► want to play with, or these car accessories or portable speakers, I would feel more even more

01:16:31 ◼   ► compelled to use Spotify everywhere and to use Alexa everywhere rather than having to

01:16:38 ◼   ► just talk to my future maybe HomePod just in the living room.

01:16:43 ◼   ► And this is the bigger theme that I feel, especially about music, which, you know, of

01:16:48 ◼   ► course it's the, for many, it's the most important web service they sign up for.

01:16:53 ◼   ► It's the music streaming service that they want to use.

01:16:55 ◼   ► From this perspective it feels like Spotify is way ahead of Apple in the sense of Spotify is everywhere and once

01:17:03 ◼   ► It'll even be supported by Alexa devices

01:17:06 ◼   ► Then you will have an assistant with a music streaming service that you can use everywhere

01:17:11 ◼   ► You can have Spotify on your PlayStation on your iPhone on your TV on your portable speaker on your kitchen speaker

01:17:17 ◼   ► You can have Spotify everywhere and I feel like Apple should probably do the same for Apple music

01:17:23 ◼   ► They have Apple Music for Android which was a great surprise and also a great decision because you know music is universal and

01:17:30 ◼   ► music should be everywhere and

01:17:33 ◼   ► That's you know as a concept music should be on every device that you own but from a technical perspective

01:17:38 ◼   ► It means that your music streaming service should be able to run on every single device that you have

01:17:44 ◼   ► that's you know, I prefer the Amazon approach here of

01:17:49 ◼   ► the assistant and therefore the music that you

01:17:53 ◼   ► ask for through an assistant is not just, you know, trapped inside your iPhone and

01:18:00 ◼   ► you know all interactions go through the iPhone whether it's Siri on the Apple Watch or

01:18:05 ◼   ► the, you know, of course the iPhone and the HomePod that, you know, judging from the, you know,

01:18:10 ◼   ► from the SDK that Apple has, you know, the developer documentation, the HomePod is gonna

01:18:15 ◼   ► I have to talk to the iPhone if you want to have like circuit extensions.

01:18:19 ◼   ► This iPhone centric, this iPhone centric world, I don't think it's well suited for the kind of feature

01:18:26 ◼   ► that is now becoming the present of assistants that live in the cloud.

01:18:31 ◼   ► All the integrations are web-based. They don't need a local binary on your iPhone

01:18:36 ◼   ► with the local circuit extension. They can just always work. And the music streaming service,

01:18:43 ◼   ► which again I believe is the most important feature, it follows you everywhere. Once you set up Spotify on one device, all that intelligence, all those playlists and learning, it all happens in the Spotify service.

01:18:56 ◼   ► And the Spotify service, you can take it with you anywhere you want to use it. And I think that's a powerful idea that maybe Apple is missing out on.

01:19:07 ◼   ► That's the negative maybe conclusion.

01:19:10 ◼   ► The more positive take is Apple users,

01:19:14 ◼   ► you know, folks who buy Apple products,

01:19:16 ◼   ► they don't care about third party stuff.

01:19:18 ◼   ► They don't care about the Amazon Echo,

01:19:20 ◼   ► they don't care about the Garmin Speak

01:19:22 ◼   ► because they have cars with CarPlay,

01:19:24 ◼   ► they have Apple Watches, they have HomePods,

01:19:26 ◼   ► they have iPhones and iPads and Apple TV.

01:19:28 ◼   ► So once you have everything Apple,

01:19:29 ◼   ► it doesn't really matter that it's not

01:19:31 ◼   ► a music streaming service that works everywhere

01:19:34 ◼   ► because you're everywhere, it's just Apple products.

01:19:37 ◼   ► So I can see why folks who think, well, this is a way overblown discussion.

01:19:42 ◼   ► It doesn't matter because in the Apple ecosystem, you're well served by Apple

01:19:45 ◼   ► Music and Siri. And that is true.

01:19:47 ◼   ► I just wonder if maybe that's the right investment for the future of where things

01:19:52 ◼   ► are going. And if Apple is interested at all in that kind of future.

01:19:56 ◼   ► Is that fair? I think it's very fair.

01:20:00 ◼   ► And I and I hold a lot of the same concerns, but but also come to the same

01:20:05 ◼   ► conclusion that you do. It's like this, the people that this stuff matters to probably won't

01:20:10 ◼   ► buy a home pod like me, right? Like for what I'm using my

01:20:16 ◼   ► like my voice assistant system for at home

01:20:20 ◼   ► I don't need a home pod for that because I very rarely listen to music on it. Most of the time

01:20:27 ◼   ► I'm honestly I'm connecting to Bluetooth to play podcasts from my phone

01:20:31 ◼   ► And it doesn't look like that the home pod will have any better way to do that overcast, right?

01:20:37 ◼   ► You just still probably be just connect via Bluetooth if you can even do that. I'm at off the top of my head

01:20:42 ◼   ► I don't know if you can with the home pod. I assume you can but I don't know

01:20:45 ◼   ► So the echo does great for that. I mean, okay. Yeah, the home pod can control all of my home kit devices

01:20:52 ◼   ► But why would I replace why would I replace it?

01:20:54 ◼   ► Amazon can do that plus Amazon the the echo hooks into IFTTT and

01:21:01 ◼   ► I don't imagine the HomePod will right so it's just stuff like that where I'm like I I

01:21:06 ◼   ► See why a lot of people will want the HomePod because they don't want an echo and they would like to have a speaker that plays

01:21:12 ◼   ► Their music from Apple music that would be great right like that

01:21:15 ◼   ► I know that's why people are gonna buy it, but I don't care about those things

01:21:18 ◼   ► Which is why I care about the echo because it makes most sense for my personal usage

01:21:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree. I think the HomePod if anything will be one of those Apple products that I

01:21:29 ◼   ► Probably pick up so we can talk about it and then I return it taking advantage of apples leaning at return policy

01:21:36 ◼   ► I'm pleased that you'll do it because I don't want to yeah. Well, it may be out here

01:21:40 ◼   ► Is it what's there's multiple countries at launch wasn't it? I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah, it is it is

01:21:45 ◼   ► But I agree. I have too much in the echo ecosystem now to

01:21:50 ◼   ► To swap in the home pod. It would solve my music streaming service

01:21:54 ◼   ► Duplicity, but it would not take over

01:21:58 ◼   ► The other stuff, you know homekit doesn't quite do everything I have set up there

01:22:02 ◼   ► I have a lot of if stuff now like you said it's the echoes too ingrained in our household to to move away from it

01:22:08 ◼   ► Most of this discussion was prompted by my ongoing situation with using both Spotify and Apple music I tweeted about this yesterday

01:22:18 ◼   ► I still cannot choose and

01:22:20 ◼   ► There's parts of Apple music that I really like

01:22:24 ◼   ► of course the being able to invoke music via Siri on my iPhone and the Apple watch integration is better and

01:22:30 ◼   ► You know, I prefer the way that it looks and it's got lyrics which is a huge part of you know

01:22:35 ◼   ► How I like to listen to music but Spotify is just smarter and the recommendations are better and you know

01:22:41 ◼   ► I'm the type of user of rather of music fan that wants to discover new music every week

01:22:47 ◼   ► I want to listen to new stuff and I wanna and I want you know

01:22:50 ◼   ► my girlfriend and I to share the kind of experience of discovering a new song and the accommodations that Apple Music

01:22:56 ◼   ► gives me every week with the favorites mix and the especially the new music mix

01:23:02 ◼   ► they're not nearly as accurate or as

01:23:05 ◼   ► honestly mind-blowing like the way that Spotify knows me and this goes back to the

01:23:09 ◼   ► acquisition of Spotify of the Echo Nest the music API platform that they acquired years ago such a great investment in that platform and

01:23:17 ◼   ► And that's the reason why Spotify is just so much better.

01:23:20 ◼   ► They have years and honestly, I think billions of data points

01:23:25 ◼   ► on what a song is like, what the genre,

01:23:29 ◼   ► what kind of chords that a song contains.

01:23:33 ◼   ► So it's just more intelligent and the recommendations,

01:23:36 ◼   ► once you start feeding data and data into Spotify,

01:23:39 ◼   ► it just becomes eerily accurate.

01:23:41 ◼   ► And so I cannot choose, but when I think about it,

01:23:45 ◼   ► the fact that Spotify is everywhere

01:23:46 ◼   ► and that I can take this intelligence everywhere,

01:23:49 ◼   ► that's, you know, that I'm using Spotify

01:23:52 ◼   ► on my home screen now.

01:23:54 ◼   ► I have Apple Music on the second screen on my iPhone.

01:23:57 ◼   ► And it was the reason why I put the Amazon Echo

01:24:00 ◼   ► back in my living room.

01:24:01 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:24:03 ◼   ► - So what you're saying is you have a day streaming service

01:24:07 ◼   ► and a night streaming service?

01:24:09 ◼   ► - Yes, that's what I, that's what,

01:24:14 ◼   ► It's the multi-music lifestyle.

01:24:19 ◼   ► It's an extension of the multi-pad lifestyle.

01:24:22 ◼   ► It's trickling down into music streaming services,

01:24:27 ◼   ► into speakers, into, you know, all kinds of things

01:24:31 ◼   ► could benefit from the multi approach.

01:24:33 ◼   ► - The multi-life. - You gotta live the multi-life.

01:24:36 ◼   ► - Myke, take us home.

01:24:37 ◼   ► I think we're done.

01:24:38 ◼   ► - If you wanna find our show notes this week,

01:24:39 ◼   ► relay.fm/connected/168.

01:24:42 ◼   ► thanks again to Eero, Squarespace and Hover for supporting this week's show. If you want

01:24:46 ◼   ► to find Federico online he is @Vittici, Steven is @ismh and they write at maxstories.net

01:24:52 ◼   ► and firetoolpixels.net respectively. My name is @imike, I guess, my word, what am I doing?

01:24:59 ◼   ► I'm @imike, I am YKE, I'm not going to be here next week, I'm taking a vacation which

01:25:04 ◼   ► I think my brain requires right now, I think I just can't do this anymore so I'm going

01:25:08 ◼   ► to go away for a bit, but I'll be back the week after and of course I'm sure you'll be

01:25:13 ◼   ► hearing many tales of my demise. Thanks so much for listening, until next time, say goodbye

01:25:18 ◼   ► guys.

01:25:19 ◼   ► Adios.

01:25:19 ◼   ► Adios.