0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02- Welcome to Connected, episode 153.
0:00:11This week's show is brought to you by
0:00:12Squarespace, Hover, and Pingdom.
0:00:14My name is Stephen Hackett and I'm joined this week
0:00:17by my co-host, who's now on the coast,
0:00:21Federico Vittucci.
0:00:22- Hey Stephen, how are you?
0:00:24- I'm good.
0:00:25So we won't give you exact coordinates
0:00:27unless you just want to,
0:00:28you're on a summer vacation.
0:00:30- I literally just came back from the beach.
0:00:34I'm still on my swimming suit and it's full of sand
0:00:39and yeah, like came back and said I gotta call Steven
0:00:44'cause we gotta talk about Apple stuff.
0:00:48And so the other, so we have a house here,
0:00:51we have like a summer house that we're renting
0:00:53for the month of August and there's people outside
0:00:57coming here, staring at a Google document
0:01:00with your profile picture, which is very nice, I should say.
0:01:03But it's only you, there's no mic.
0:01:06- There's no mic.
0:01:07So Myke, someone who's been spending some time
0:01:10in the US this summer, he's traveling today,
0:01:12but he will be on the show next week,
0:01:16and on the show on the 15th,
0:01:18he will be in person with me in my office,
0:01:23and so that'll be funny of that
0:01:24to look forward to in two weeks.
0:01:26If he survives, it will be with you.
0:01:30Yeah.
0:01:31If not, it's going to be really weird.
0:01:34But that's in the future, and we have things to talk about today.
0:01:37And to talk about things today, first we have to talk about things in the past, and that
0:01:40is follow-up.
0:01:43So my Logitech Circle 2 camera finally showed up.
0:01:46It showed up last week.
0:01:47Oh, nice.
0:01:48Remember, it was a pre-order deal, and then mine shipped like three weeks later.
0:01:52I bought the camera and then I bought the kit
0:01:55to mount it to the inside of a window
0:01:57where I wanted to look outside the house,
0:01:59there was a window, it was like in the perfect spot.
0:02:01And it's crazy how small this camera is.
0:02:05So you know, I've got the Canary
0:02:08and I have a couple nest cams,
0:02:10but this thing is truly small
0:02:14and the mounting kit is really clever
0:02:15so it comes with a mount that you can just
0:02:17put the power on the back of it
0:02:20and then you put it in this thing
0:02:21and it's got super sticky pads and goes onto the window
0:02:25so it sits flush and so there's no glare or anything around,
0:02:28which is really nice because their lens is like as close
0:02:30to the glass as possible.
0:02:32Does that make sense?
0:02:33Yeah.
0:02:33Yeah.
0:02:34So is this a camera that they promised
0:02:38you will get HomeKit support later?
0:02:41Yes.
0:02:42And I was thinking about this because this, the news,
0:02:47we talked about this camera before WWDC.
0:02:50And then at WWDC, Apple said,
0:02:53we're gonna roll out software certification
0:02:56for HomeKit devices.
0:02:58So back when we were talking about this camera,
0:03:01we were like, how can they add HomeKit support later
0:03:04if they don't have a chip?
0:03:05And then at WWDC, Apple comes out and says,
0:03:08we don't need a chip anymore.
0:03:09So it seems to me like Logitech knew of course,
0:03:13ahead of the conference.
0:03:15And they launched this product with the promise of HomeKit
0:03:18because they knew Apple was, you know,
0:03:20gonna roll out software updates to add HomeKit support,
0:03:24which is nice.
0:03:26- Yeah, it is.
0:03:26The app that it comes with is, it's okay.
0:03:31There's a couple things in there that I don't really like,
0:03:34as far as like, some of the settings are a little hamfisted.
0:03:37There's not a lot of finesse that you see in other,
0:03:40like in the Nest Cam, for instance,
0:03:42but it's a new product, I think they'll get there.
0:03:44One thing that's really nice is the timeline view.
0:03:47So on the right side of the screen,
0:03:49you have basically a timeline.
0:03:51You can kind of flick through it and see every time
0:03:53over the last however many days it is,
0:03:56that the camera has seen activity.
0:03:59So if you have notifications off,
0:04:02or you just kind of want to go,
0:04:05someone came back earlier, you can scroll back
0:04:07and they're all marked and you can just tap it
0:04:09and it plays a little clip.
0:04:10You can save the clip if you want.
0:04:12It's all really, like the software,
0:04:14it's sort of basic in some areas,
0:04:15but the timeline feature is really good.
0:04:17I do have a lot of camera apps now,
0:04:21so I have the Canary app and the Nest Home app
0:04:24'cause I've got the thermostat as well and now this.
0:04:26So that's a little funny on one of my home screens,
0:04:30just a whole row of them.
0:04:32- You like being watched.
0:04:36- I like watching, yeah.
0:04:37So the one thing I didn't anticipate,
0:04:42and I don't know why I didn't,
0:04:44My house has storm windows, so I have the regular windows
0:04:46and there's an air gap and there's the exterior storm
0:04:48windows, so I have lots of glare on mine.
0:04:50So I'm kinda working that out,
0:04:53I may end up moving this thing.
0:04:54But all in all, I've been happy with it.
0:04:57I think it does a great job.
0:04:59And I really think there's modularity,
0:05:02so you have the window mount, but then you have
0:05:07other mounts that you can buy or that it comes with
0:05:10to use the camera in different ways.
0:05:11have one that's got a battery pack on it. I think that's a really clever way of doing
0:05:17it. Instead of selling like Nest has the interior and the exterior cameras, this is all sort
0:05:21of the same little like, to use a hypercritical term, naked robotic core and then you just
0:05:27put on different attachments to make it work where you want it. I think that's a really
0:05:31smart approach.
0:05:32That's nice. Once they do the HomeKit integration, I should probably consider one of these, especially
0:05:39like because of the, you know, I can put it anywhere. I like that approach, like there's
0:05:45freedom granted by this modular system and that appeals to me. So once they do the home
0:05:52kit integration, if it works well, I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna get one of these and
0:05:57maybe use it outside. I don't know. But basically once you get two dogs, you have the perfect
0:06:02excuse to buy all the cameras you want because you want to monitor them. And I assume it's
0:06:06the same with babies. So I'm in the market for more cameras, especially if
0:06:12they have HomeKit integration, so we'll see. Yeah, so that's that camera.
0:06:20Thumbs up from me. We have someone asking, asking us to let them know when The
0:06:25Rock is running for president. He's not yet. Not yet. Not yet, but we'll see.
0:06:29- Yeah, so this is a funny story.
0:06:34This came up last week.
0:06:37So Wink is a, they have an iPhone app,
0:06:41they have a platform that kind of connects
0:06:42different smart home things.
0:06:43So I use it the same way Myke does,
0:06:46where I can control my Canary camera with my Echo.
0:06:50So I can tell the Echo, you know,
0:06:51turn my camera on or off and it can do it.
0:06:53Wink does a lot of things, but that's what I use it for.
0:06:56They were like inside of a company called Quirky that was trying to make like smart
0:07:04connected objects that sort of imploded and then it was bought by Flextronics but now
0:07:09it's been bought again by our friend, I don't want to say friend of the show, that seems
0:07:14a bit strong but friend of humanity, Will.I.Am.
0:07:18So well, okay. So it's just gonna be like, it's just gonna be on Planet of the Apps at
0:07:27this point.
0:07:28I mean his company, yeah, I am plus, bought it. I don't really know, so I'm looking at
0:07:34their website right now. I don't know what they do. Like they have some Bluetooth headphones
0:07:39here that look sort of ridiculous.
0:07:41Oh yeah, like the fake beats by other artists. Yeah, there's a bunch of those.
0:07:47Yeah.
0:07:48I mean okay, so Will.am's company is getting into home automation because it's the hot
0:07:54space at the moment.
0:07:57I don't know because these services that they act as a kind of as a software bridge between
0:08:03all of these different devices.
0:08:06I don't know how long they can last for two reasons.
0:08:09One because most people I think they prefer the native integrations and like using the
0:08:14native stuff on iOS and Android.
0:08:16So whatever Google is doing and what Apple is doing with home, it's just a better experience.
0:08:21You get the Siri integration, you get the native app, you get all the hooks into the
0:08:25system and it works better than these third-party solutions.
0:08:29But also because you're building a third-party bridge on top of other services and other
0:08:35APIs, the moment that something breaks, you're going to have to update your entire platform
0:08:40and it's going to be a problem because Wink doesn't control all.
0:08:44Or maybe it doesn't have the same leverage as Apple on companies like Philips for example,
0:08:52or Honeywell for instance, or what's the name of the other thermostat that is really nice?
0:09:00The...
0:09:01The Ecobee.
0:09:02The Ecobee.
0:09:03So I think when Apple and Google approach these companies, they're like, "Hey, you've got
0:09:07to support our framework and use the API and make sure that it works and that you follow
0:09:12these guidelines and that you support these APIs."
0:09:14feels to me like these bigger companies they have a stronger leverage and those manufacturers
0:09:20they tend to follow you know Apple and Google because they're the platform owners but it's
0:09:27not the same you know this API is breaking the wing support and I mean sure but what
0:09:34you're gonna do about it. So I don't have any I don't have I feel like this third party
0:09:43services that connect other third parties, they're going to be short lived and they work
0:09:49well now, but I wouldn't bet on them for the future, honestly.
0:09:54No, I agree. And as the built-in stuff just gets better, like with HomeKit being more
0:09:59reasonable to work with, I think they're writing on the wall. So anyways, well I am. Did not
0:10:05expect to talk about his company today. I wanted to ask you, like, whatever happened
0:10:09to Planet of the Apps because we... Beats me. So does anyone know like the first episode
0:10:16I saw a bunch of people saying episode two is better, episode three is better, but then
0:10:21it kind of faded into the background. So I don't know, did it ever finish? I don't know,
0:10:26I thought you were going to finish watching it. Did y'all not keep it up? I didn't, I
0:10:30didn't finish watching the show at all. Like I watched segments of the first episode because
0:10:36it just didn't pull me in at all. I'm really excited about the carpool karaoke that Apple
0:10:41is doing on Apple Music. That one, that show, I'm excited about. And it's launching, I think,
0:10:47next week on August 8th. Apple had a promo video. So that is looking good. But this planet
0:10:52of the apps, man, I think, you know, those people that were skeptical ahead of the release,
0:10:58they were kind of right. It just doesn't feel like a, like a, like a good fit for Apple
0:11:03and the App Store and maybe the way that it was promoted also was doomed to fail. I don't
0:11:09think we'll see another experiment like this in terms of Apple doing fake reality TV.
0:11:16Yeah, I think I agree with you on all that. The promo for Carpool Carrique was a lot of
0:11:23fun. It was fun to watch and I think I'm looking forward to checking the first episode of that
0:11:30out. Maybe we'll do that for next week's show probably.
0:11:32Yeah, but even thematically, you know, it's such a better fit for Apple Music to have a TV show about music inside the streaming services
0:11:40you know that you pay for. That's a great idea. So we'll see how it goes.
0:11:44So this week's episode is brought to you by
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0:13:09support for connected. We thank you to Squarespace for their support of this
0:13:12show. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website. So Stephen are you
0:13:19sad this week? A little bit. So last week it was a Thursday I think, the
0:13:3027th, someone noticed that apple.com/iPod just redirected to apple.com/iPodTouch
0:13:39and in the store the iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle cannot be found. About an hour
0:13:45later Apple issued a statement to some members of the press there was no
0:13:50press release or anything basically saying they were simplifying their iPod
0:13:54lineup with the updated the iPod touch storage and pricing and discontinuing
0:14:00the shuffle and Anno and now they're gone they're gone Federico. That is that
0:14:03is kind of sad like what a subtle way to go out you know like not with a bang but
0:14:11with a whimper. That's a solid quote. It's a good job. I think it's, I mean, it's to
0:14:18be expected at this point. Like obviously most people are listening to music either
0:14:22on YouTube or Apple Music or Spotify. Spotify, by the way, announced they have, I think,
0:14:2860 million subscribers. So that's pretty awesome. Yeah, that's a lot of people. And it's, it's,
0:14:34it's clear that the, the general market is going into that direction of paying for streaming
0:14:41and I know we talked about this before there's still space for classic music
0:14:46players especially because they just work right you don't have to worry about
0:14:50cellular connections you don't have to worry about storage because what you pay
0:14:54for is the storage you have and then you put songs in there and you're done but
0:14:59most people do not listen to music that way anymore and I know that for a long
0:15:05time you've been one of those people longer than Myke and I have for sure. So how do you
0:15:13feel about the classic iPod, the notion of the classic iPod going away?
0:15:20I mean I'm fully aware that the reality you outlined is what's true, that people are streaming
0:15:26music and listening on their iPhones and like I have an iPod that I'll travel with some
0:15:31but I don't listen to music on an iPod on a regular basis. I still use iTunes on a regular
0:15:35which I think we're gonna talk about in a minute.
0:15:38But I think a lot of people saw this news
0:15:41and were surprised that it hadn't happened already.
0:15:44Some people on Twitter were like,
0:15:46"Wait, they hadn't done this already?"
0:15:48And some comments under my YouTube video
0:15:51said the same thing, which I just found surprising.
0:15:53So I don't know why the time is now.
0:15:56Maybe they're just sort of cleaning up
0:15:59in advance of the HomePod.
0:16:00Maybe they had some sort of limited quantity left
0:16:05and they've reached the end of that quantity
0:16:07and now it's just done.
0:16:08I do think there is still room
0:16:12for something like the Shuffle
0:16:14and I think a lot of people,
0:16:17when they heard me say that,
0:16:18responded with the Apple Watch.
0:16:20And so last night I just went to Twitter
0:16:22with the show account and asked people,
0:16:24"Do you listen to music that you sync to your Apple Watch?"
0:16:28And we got a bunch of replies and a bunch of people do it
0:16:31and a bunch of people don't do it.
0:16:34I found it really interesting.
0:16:35The people who do seem really excited about it,
0:16:38and then I think a lot of people are like me,
0:16:40when they go for a run or for a bike ride,
0:16:43they're gonna have their phone anyways,
0:16:45and so the watch hasn't become important enough
0:16:49or capable enough to stand on its own for them
0:16:51so that they're not using the iPod functionality
0:16:55in the watch, which I found really interesting.
0:16:57And I was curious what you do.
0:16:58Have you synced or listened to music just on your watch?
0:17:01I think the point for me is I have synced music, but the process is so invisible after
0:17:09you set it up. I don't even know if I'm streaming from the iPhone or the watch. I guess if I
0:17:16start music from the watch itself and that playlist happens to be downloaded, then it's
0:17:21streaming music from my watch. But I think I have done this before, like when I was working
0:17:27now for example and my phone was in my house but I don't think I even thought about it
0:17:34like it just happened and maybe I am one of those users after all I just haven't thought
0:17:41about it because I set it up months ago like I picked a bunch of playlists that I want
0:17:47to be available on my watch I think that's what I did and then I just without thinking
0:17:53about it I put on my AirPods and the watch and before starting a workout I hit play in
0:17:57the music app and yeah so I guess I am a user of that not that often but I think it worked
0:18:06pretty well so I didn't notice anything weird so yeah I guess I do use it.
0:18:11Yeah I agree with you the whole mechanism for syncing music to the watch or playing
0:18:16music back on the watch making sure your AirPods are paired all of that could be better and
0:18:23But all that said, my point of something like the Shuffle
0:18:27still has room in this world with something super small,
0:18:29you just clip it on, it doesn't weigh anything,
0:18:31you can just go.
0:18:32Like the watch is a better version of that
0:18:33'cause you're already wearing it if you own one
0:18:36and you don't have to have wired headphones
0:18:37'cause they work with AirPods.
0:18:38And so I think the watch hopefully over time
0:18:41will take over that role and for me,
0:18:43once it can do sailor stuff, I'll leave my phone behind.
0:18:46- Yeah.
0:18:47- Which we've talked about length in the past.
0:18:48So I think this whole story is like,
0:18:51it's surprising it took so long,
0:18:53It makes total sense that they did it.
0:18:55And it's, you know, I played up,
0:18:58like if you watch my video, like it's intentionally sad.
0:19:01Like the piano music is really sad.
0:19:03- It's very sad.
0:19:04It's very sad when the iPod kind of trips over
0:19:08because it's kind of funny.
0:19:10I thought that was like top notch movie moment in the video.
0:19:15Like super sad, super sort of nostalgic.
0:19:18And that was really solid work.
0:19:22The hardest part of that was speaking
0:19:24in such a monotone voice.
0:19:25Like I shot that like six times.
0:19:27Like I kept wanting to have inflection and be myself.
0:19:32And it's like, no, you have to talk.
0:19:33- Be emotional.
0:19:34- Very quietly.
0:19:36But that's played up in the video, right?
0:19:40I think there are people,
0:19:41like I did hear from people who ran out
0:19:43and bought a Shuffle or bought a Nano.
0:19:45I think maybe even now,
0:19:46you can still get one if they're in stores.
0:19:49'Cause some people do want them,
0:19:50but clearly the era of the iPod is over, obviously.
0:19:55- Yeah, and speaking about the watch, I think,
0:19:58I mean, besides cellular connection,
0:20:00so if the watch ever gets a SIM card
0:20:02and I can put a SIM in there
0:20:04and I can stream music wherever I am,
0:20:07that's gonna be awesome,
0:20:08because I can just walk around, pick a song,
0:20:11maybe it doesn't have to be synced,
0:20:12I don't even have to know,
0:20:13and it goes straight to my AirPods
0:20:15or maybe even to my car's Bluetooth.
0:20:18That could be an idea.
0:20:19So that's gonna be great.
0:20:20But I think also there should be a way on the iPhone, so when you're using the music app,
0:20:26I would like to have like a button that says "send this album" or "send this playlist to the watch"
0:20:32and like you directly from the music app on the phone, so you don't have to go into the watch app,
0:20:38nobody uses the watch app, besides to do settings and you know, setup.
0:20:42But I think to have contextual features, sort of like when using TestFlight,
0:20:48And from TestFlight itself, you can flip a toggle and you put the app of that iPhone
0:20:54app on the watch.
0:20:55I would like to have that kind of toggle in music to say download this album or playlist
0:21:01or whatever on the watch.
0:21:03And if you combine that with cellular and if you combine that also with possibly increased
0:21:09independency from the iPhone.
0:21:11So if the watch becomes more independent from the iPhone, if Siri doesn't have to go back
0:21:18and forth, jump back and forth between the iPhone to answer questions and to do the processing.
0:21:23So if the watch gets serious processing features, like it can do more directly on the chip inside
0:21:29the watch, you're basically going to have a true wearable device that doesn't require
0:21:35an iPhone. It can still communicate with the iPhone, but you can also use it on your own.
0:21:40And that kind of becomes the future of the iPod in a way. It is truly a pod that is always
0:21:45with you and it doesn't need a bridge to iTunes or to the iPhone. So that would be
0:21:51amazing, honestly.
0:21:54Yeah, it kind of lives up to that promise of the iPod.
0:21:58Yeah.
0:21:58Like in a more full way, right? Like the iPod you always had to have in your pocket or make
0:22:02sure you had it on you, right? Or you left it in your car or something. And like my watch,
0:22:07I get up and I put it on and I take it off before bed and it's with me all day and I
0:22:13and I don't have to think about it.
0:22:15Now of course most of us are that way with our phones too,
0:22:18but the watch is like one step further that,
0:22:20you know, if I go out and do something physical,
0:22:23it may be the only device I have with me.
0:22:26And I agree with you, I think the idea of having
0:22:28that toggle in the music app is brilliant.
0:22:31Because I mean, when I upgraded watches earlier this year,
0:22:35you know, I keep a playlist of like,
0:22:37I call it like my reserve playlist of like,
0:22:39if I'm stranded somewhere and just wanna listen
0:22:40to something, like just a couple of albums
0:22:42I really care about and I had to like sit down and remember how to do it like I do this stuff for a living
0:22:48Right. It's like where like how do I get music on this thing?
0:22:51right
0:22:51like you have to have a playlist set up and you have to go to the watch app and find the playlist and then it
0:22:55Takes approximately 200 years to sync it all all that could be better and I think though I really think they'll get there
0:23:02You know, I don't know if they're ever gonna have the whole Apple music client on the watch
0:23:06I kind of hope not but I think it should definitely be easier
0:23:08Like the watch should be a destination for a song that you're playing with right now like
0:23:12There's like the share sheet you can send stuff around the watch should be
0:23:16At the end of one of those commands, I think
0:23:19Yeah, especially in iOS 11 like we're seeing some of these ideas like in photos. There's now on the iPhone
0:23:26There's now an extension that when you when you share a photo. There's a button in the bottom row that says
0:23:33Use as watch face and it's kind of same idea like taking
0:23:38content, such an awful word, but taking stuff from the iPhone and offering like contextual
0:23:46shortcuts to say, also put these on the watch because it's, you know, it's a shortcut to
0:23:54an object that is always with us, but you don't want to spend time setting everything
0:23:59up from scratch. So I think the more iOS moves in this direction are offering options and
0:24:05shortcuts and like quick ways to take what is on the phone and put it on the
0:24:10watch that's gonna be so useful and especially you know because the watch is
0:24:15still not independent from the iPhone so we need more of these options I think
0:24:19yeah no totally agree I'd like to see them push that forward but to back up a
0:24:26little bit from we talked about this leaves a big iTunes shaped question on
0:24:31on the table.
0:24:32So, I don't know if people know this,
0:24:34so I have like the very first iPod, the 2001 iPod,
0:24:37that still syncs with iTunes today.
0:24:39Like you have to have like Firewire 400 to 800,
0:24:42a Thunderbolt, but if you can physically hook it up,
0:24:44it still syncs, like all that junk is still in iTunes.
0:24:47And some of us, you know, I still sing music to my phone
0:24:51over USB even though more and more I feel the call
0:24:54of Spotify, but all that stuff is like wrapped up in iTunes
0:25:00and iTunes on the Mac, let alone Windows, is aging,
0:25:04and if you're an Apple Music subscriber,
0:25:07it's actually kind of confusing in places,
0:25:09and it's just, it's an old app that feels increasingly
0:25:13out of date and sort of out of context
0:25:17with everything else that they're doing.
0:25:18Like if you look at media management in iTunes,
0:25:21and you look at the new TV app on iOS,
0:25:24there are worlds of difference,
0:25:26and the TV app is a lot better in a lot of ways.
0:25:29And I wonder if part of this is, with an eye cut to the future where iTunes is marked as
0:25:35legacy and replaced with something slowly, and that if they replace it with something,
0:25:40it has none of that syncing stuff in it, right?
0:25:43The people like me who sync music to their phones even, you know, we're gonna get caught
0:25:46up in this and, hey, you know, this new app, you have local music, you have Apple Music
0:25:51Music, Apple Music Music, and that's it.
0:25:55And if you still want syncing, iTunes is still over here, we'll support it for a couple,
0:25:58you know, OS releases, but I can't help but wonder
0:26:01if this is the beginning of a move in that direction.
0:26:03- Yeah, I mean--
0:26:04- It's time, it's time, right?
0:26:06Like, it's time.
0:26:07- Yeah, I guess so, like, just pull the trigger
0:26:11and split up iTunes in multiple apps,
0:26:13offer like an actual Apple Music client on the Mac.
0:26:17I was trying to use Apple Music on my Mac a few days ago,
0:26:21so I was about to record a show,
0:26:22and I was early, so I had like 10 minutes.
0:26:25I was like, you know what, I'm gonna listen to a song.
0:26:27So I click on the iTunes icon.
0:26:30And let aside the fact that you gotta deal with the iTunes UI, like the entire store
0:26:37navigation, but also like I picked a song in Apple Music and then, you know, on iOS
0:26:44when you're listening to a song and you want to jump to the full album, you can click on
0:26:47the, you can tap on the song name or the artist's name and you jump into the, like the parent
0:26:54view of the album that contains the song. And I couldn't figure out how to do the
0:26:59same on the Mac. So it's like I was clicking around and like, I don't know how to get
0:27:03from a single to the full album. I have no idea. And that's because they sort of brought
0:27:10Apple Music into iTunes, but they're still constrained by the entire paradigms and the
0:27:17UI metaphors that iTunes uses. So honestly, at this point, I think Apple is doing a disservice
0:27:23to the people who pay for Apple Music by not offering a native client on the Mac and just
0:27:29make it a feature of iTunes because it's just so complex and it's always been complex but
0:27:36at this point it's just ridiculous. You've got TV shows and podcasts and Apple Music
0:27:39in there. It doesn't make sense anymore. And now that you don't have classic iPods anymore,
0:27:44I think it's the right moment to, you know, it's been a good run, iTunes, but it's time
0:27:50to move on.
0:27:51Agreed. I think even those of us who have a lot of local music and big
0:27:56libraries, I agree with you. We have a family iTunes that I have set up
0:28:02to automatically download anything we purchase, but movies are in there, TV
0:28:05shows are in there for the whole family, and that library is huge. I mean,
0:28:10who knows how many movies and TV shows in it. Anytime I have to do
0:28:13anything in it, and it's on a machine that's, you know, it's an older Mac Mini,
0:28:18but the library is on a Drobo like it's pretty fast setup and anytime I do anything in there
0:28:23it's just like I just I just want to strangle it and you know my my library my iMac is much smaller
0:28:29but even there on a you know
0:28:32Two year old iMac with an SSD and a music only smaller library. It's still so
0:28:38just just awkward because they've added so many things over the years and bolt us so many things on and
0:28:44And a couple years ago, the redesign helped with some of that, but try to explain to somebody
0:28:51over the phone how to make a playlist in iTunes.
0:28:53It cannot be done.
0:28:54You cannot do it because it has just grown into this monster.
0:29:02If iPod's going away, if that's a signal or if Apple's sort of giving itself permission
0:29:09to say, "Hey, you know what? This old model of music, some people still want it, but it
0:29:15is the past and more and more focusing on Apple Music." I mean, the quarterly results
0:29:20services is up again. It's a growing part of the company. Then your software should
0:29:26mirror that reality, I think. So I think that does it. Rest in peace, iPod
0:29:32Nano and Shuffle. Thank you for the years of fun. Lots of years. Lots of years. Lots
0:29:38of fun. We're gonna talk about iPads in a second. But first, I want to tell you about
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0:31:28So your platform of choice had a big news day yesterday.
0:31:34Yeah, so Apple posted their Q3 2017 results and one aspect stood out, especially considering
0:31:46the past couple of years, that iPad sales are up.
0:31:50Like 15% increase year over year and 28% from the previous quarter.
0:31:57And that is a notable piece of information because the iPad sales have been down for
0:32:03I think two to three years.
0:32:04It's been a recurring topic of the show where Myke and I are really excited about the iPad
0:32:09but the iPad sales don't back our excitement.
0:32:14The last time they had growth was I believe 2013, 2014, year over year.
0:32:20So it's been three years.
0:32:22So it's been a long stretch of time and obviously looking at the numbers, yes the sales are
0:32:30up 15% but in terms of revenue they're only up I think 2% and that suggests that Apple
0:32:41has sold a lot of cheaper iPads.
0:32:44So the new ones starting at $329.
0:32:49So the iPad, I think the fifth generation iPad is called, that launched earlier this
0:32:55year and we were talking back when that iPad was announced.
0:33:00We said it's obviously an iPad for education purposes and for people who just want the
0:33:04basic tablet.
0:33:06And it seems that's exactly what happened.
0:33:08Apple sold a bunch of these iPads to education customers.
0:33:13So I'm pretty sure that during the call, Tim Cook noted that the education sales were up.
0:33:19So it suggests that iPad is doing well in that segment.
0:33:22And of course, Apple saw demand for people who want to spend $300 on an iPad, don't want
0:33:30an iPad Pro, don't want stuff like the pencil and the smart keyboard.
0:33:34So they went there and they sold those iPads.
0:33:37So while it's great that iPad sales are up again, I think they're not up in the way that
0:33:45people like Myke and I would like them to be up.
0:33:48So in terms of iPad Pro and people switching from Windows PC and Macs to the iPad as a
0:33:55full-time computer.
0:33:57But I think it has momentum.
0:33:59Like the platform has momentum at this point.
0:34:03There's a new narrative that iPad sales can be up and there's new iPad Pro hardware that
0:34:09launched in June.
0:34:11Really powerful stuff with the ProMotion display, with the pencil performance, with the new
0:34:16screens, the new screen size.
0:34:18And there's iOS 11 launching later this year.
0:34:21So I think if you combine these two, if you combine the fact that Apple can still sell
0:34:27more iPads than we expect, and they have a sort of one-two punch of the iPad Pro and
0:34:33iOS 11 in the same year, I think that bodes well for even the next quarter. If Apple can
0:34:42still provide a reasonable story around iOS 11 for people who want to switch to the iPad,
0:34:49I think now more than ever really since 2014 they have a chance to re-explain the iPad
0:34:58to people.
0:34:59At least I want to believe again or still that this can happen.
0:35:05I don't know.
0:35:06What do you think?
0:35:07No, I mean, so I think the breakdown of clearly the 329 iPad has taken off.
0:35:13I think they said in the call a million to education so far.
0:35:18Part of that is that spring launch, right,
0:35:20they got in there for school purchasing.
0:35:23But clearly people who buy iPads in bulk
0:35:27were looking for a device like that.
0:35:29And it's great for consumers as well
0:35:31'cause it's cheap and it's got relatively newish stuff
0:35:33in there, but clearly a big hit
0:35:36for people who buy lots of iPads.
0:35:38And while that may not translate to the iPad Pro market
0:35:42right now, I think it could open the door for that
0:35:45in the future if people are using iPads at school
0:35:48or work, their teacher or their boss assigns them an iPad,
0:35:53then maybe they get used to it and that's good
0:35:56for the whole ecosystem down the road,
0:35:59but it's not today, right, that's a long-term thing.
0:36:03But I think the basic story here is that the iPad
0:36:06has some momentum and the narrative now is not,
0:36:11well the iPad keeps sliding but now the narrative is hey you know the iPad is is
0:36:15on the upswing and we have to you know wait another three months to see if it
0:36:19does that again if this is a one-time thing but you know Apple Apple stock
0:36:25closed at an all-time high after hours yesterday and there's lots of reasons
0:36:30for that but I would imagine at least one reason is that the iPad is no longer
0:36:33sliding that it has not only stopped but made up ground and so I think that's the
0:36:39big story, I think we get bogged down in like individual devices, but I think
0:36:43overall it's a thumbs up that the iPad is is finding its legs again. Yeah, I
0:36:50think so and I think ultimately it all comes down to what the reception to iOS 11
0:36:56is gonna be like and judging from what we see on Twitter and we talked about
0:37:00this also, I think it's gonna be for pro users sort of a divisive release because
0:37:08multitasking stuff is not going down well with... Some people are used to, you know,
0:37:13the Mac metaphor of spaces and multitasking and, like, doing split views, but I think
0:37:19Apple can adjust to those over time and they can still figure out ways to appeal to, you
0:37:25know, the folks who want to switch. Because that's all what it is about, really. Apple
0:37:28wants to convince folks who are still on Windows PCs and other desktop computers to switch
0:37:34to iPads. And I feel like with this new hardware and with iOS 11, and if the developer community
0:37:44can respond to the features in iOS 11 and sort of revitalizing the iPad app store with
0:37:51stuff like drag and drop and, you know, integrating with the keyboard shortcuts that maybe some
0:37:57folks ignored when iOS 9 launched. I think the iPad ecosystem could become much stronger
0:38:06than it is today and when that happens, does it ever have a reflection on sales? Can Apple
0:38:12convince folks to abandon their five-year-old crummy PC to something modern and faster and
0:38:21better? That's the big question and that also depends not just on the hardware that Apple
0:38:26can make exceptionally well, or the software which Apple is making again for the iPad this
0:38:31time, but it also depends on marketing and it depends on pricing and it depends on how
0:38:37do you reach those customers. And so judging from the marketing campaigns that Apple has
0:38:42done for the iPad Pro in the past few months, those have been effective I think. They're
0:38:48on TV everywhere, there's people talking about the iPad Pro, and those are nice ads, after
0:38:54They're short, they communicate the goal of the iPad as a platform.
0:38:59And so I think Apple has momentum in a bunch of different fields surrounding the iPad.
0:39:05Marketing, software, hardware, and now even results.
0:39:09And usually when you have this combination of all these factors, usually it's really
0:39:16hard to do wrong.
0:39:19Especially when you're a company like Apple, if you can't communicate, if you've got the
0:39:21the hardware, you got the software, and you got the good pricing and virtually no competition
0:39:28you know aside from the Surface tablets. You know there's no other, you know, basically
0:39:36it comes down to the iPad or the Surface at this point. I would be surprised if the next
0:39:42quarter the iPad doesn't do well but you know maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is just a one
0:39:48off of people about the cheap iPad. Yeah I mean I think time will tell. If
0:39:54anything I would hope that it just levels off right that if we can't
0:39:58sustain the growth that at the very least you know maybe the cheap iPad gave
0:40:03it a push and iOS 11 will sort of keep it there. I was hoping I think like the
0:40:11two of you were that the the 10.5 inch iPad Pro would have made a bigger
0:40:14difference than it seemed to. You know, Apple doesn't release numbers on how
0:40:19many models they sell. This is all sort of inferred from the sales percentage
0:40:22increase and the revenue percentage increase. But I think, you know, I think
0:40:29with iOS 11, you know, if someone's on an older iPad that may, you know, that may
0:40:34entice them to upgrade. They may look at that 10.5 and or the 329 iPad and
0:40:38and move forward.
0:40:40I think the other interesting thing here is that
0:40:44the iPad Mini's not part of this conversation at all.
0:40:46Right, like people are assuming it's the 9.7 inch iPad
0:40:51and the Mini is just not in the conversation.
0:40:55It's still for sale, you can still buy an iPad Mini,
0:40:57I think there's one skew, but it,
0:41:00if we'd had this conversation three years ago,
0:41:03people would be like, "Oh yeah, the iPad Mini
0:41:05"must be on the uptake."
0:41:06But I think now the Mini is sort of like the, those iPods we talked about where it's, I
0:41:12think it's time is slipping away from it.
0:41:15Yeah.
0:41:17I don't know anyone who uses an iPad Mini anymore.
0:41:20Like even my friends.
0:41:22You used to do all your work on an iPad Mini.
0:41:24I used to.
0:41:25When we started this show, you ran Mac stories on an iPad Mini.
0:41:29That is absolutely true.
0:41:31And it's the iPad that got me into the idea of working on the iPad.
0:41:35So I own the iPad mini big time, really.
0:41:40But it's, again, sort of like iTunes and the old iPods.
0:41:44I think it's past its time, you know, with big iPhones and the new iPad Pros.
0:41:50I don't see a spot for the iPad mini anymore.
0:41:54And iOS 11 is so obviously geared to something with a larger screen.
0:41:59Like it's better on the 10.5 than the 9.7.
0:42:03But I haven't played with it on the 12.9,
0:42:05but I imagine it's way better on the 12.9.
0:42:07It's much, much better on the-- as always,
0:42:11with split view and these features,
0:42:13it's so much better on the big screen.
0:42:15So anything else about the iPads or anything else
0:42:18in the quarter of the results that jump out at you?
0:42:20Well, the services revenue, I think that was interesting,
0:42:24that Apple is still growing.
0:42:25And I saw the argument from some folks on Twitter
0:42:30that much of the revenue that Apple reports on their services
0:42:35is actually a fee because they are a payment processor.
0:42:39So like they process payments for customers on iTunes
0:42:44and the apps and they take a fee, for example,
0:42:48from developers.
0:42:49And that is not really generating revenue
0:42:52like Google or Amazon do.
0:42:55They're like actually providing services.
0:42:59So the argument goes that Apple owes a huge portion
0:43:02of its services revenue to the rather non-exciting act
0:43:10of taking the commission.
0:43:12But I don't think the argument is fair, honestly,
0:43:15because running the App Store and the iTunes Store
0:43:19itself is running a service, and a huge one,
0:43:22if you consider all the users that Apple has.
0:43:25And also Google and others also take a fee from purchases on the Google Play Store for
0:43:31example.
0:43:32So Apple is not alone.
0:43:34And also there's iCloud and Apple Music and I don't think it's fair to describe Apple
0:43:38as a payment processor when they have an actual music streaming service that appears to be
0:43:46doing quite well.
0:43:47And they also have iCloud Drive and they support features like sharing storage and you can
0:43:53buy multiple tiers of storage and iCloud is going to take on more responsibilities with
0:43:58iOS 11 considering all the stuff that you can store on iCloud now and sync with iCloud
0:44:03from messages to your health data. So I don't think it's fair to describe Apple as making
0:44:08money on services by taking a fee from developers because that is not all they do. I still think
0:44:14Apple is not, you know, providing the same, in some fields, the same quality services
0:44:21as Google. So I still think Apple is quite behind Google in terms of the details of some
0:44:28products. But overall, Apple, I don't think there's any doubt that Apple is embracing
0:44:33services and charging people money for services from Apple Music to iCloud. And the App Store
0:44:39is part of that, but I don't think it defines Apple as a services company. And in fact,
0:44:44I think we're going to see even more services type products from Apple. For example, if
0:44:49ever do the TV bundle that was rumored for years. That's going to be another. I saw that
0:44:56on Twitter and I thought it was worth discussing.
0:44:58Oh, it's good. I think a couple of other things jumped out at me. In the comments, Apple said
0:45:04that the Apple Watch sales were up 50% year over year. That's a Bezos number because we
0:45:10don't know what those numbers actually are. It's just that they're up. I wish they would
0:45:19would give numbers. I think it'd be really interesting to know those numbers
0:45:23but they lumped the Apple watch in with other products where the
0:45:27iPod is as well. But clearly the watch is doing well but we don't know how well we
0:45:34just know you know relative terms. I found that interesting in this quarter
0:45:37the watch seems like such a holiday item and so if it's up now this much that I
0:45:44would hope that the holiday quarter would be even better. This comes sort of
0:45:48it's sort of in the background, we're gonna talk about the iPhone stuff shortly, but it's
0:45:52sort of in the background is the idea that there's a new watch coming in the fall. I'm
0:45:56not sure I buy into that. I feel like the watch is a two-year cycle, but if it is, there's
0:46:01a new watch coming and it's really compelling and they can make enough of them this year.
0:46:05The holiday quarter could be really big for the Apple Watch. Again, with like air quote
0:46:10numbers.
0:46:11If Apple can do the watch with the SIM card this year, I'm totally gonna get another one.
0:46:17Because I really want the independent watch.
0:46:22But like you said, I don't know if the watch can be updated on an annual basis.
0:46:27The rumor – well, not a rumor – what some analysts believe as an estimation is that
0:46:35the Apple Watch sales are approaching 30 million units to date.
0:46:42They built this estimation by looking at the other section
0:46:46of the revenue reported by Apple and basically building trends
0:46:51for the previous other revenue and then calculating
0:46:55the difference now that the watch is included
0:46:57and sort of estimating the units and the revenue
0:47:00that those generated.
0:47:02So a bunch of analysts seem to agree
0:47:04that Apple Watch is now up to 29/30 million units sold
0:47:08to date, which is a good number.
0:47:10It is a good number.
0:47:12The other thing that jumped out at me was the Mac number.
0:47:14So the sales were flat year over year,
0:47:17but the revenue is up a percentage.
0:47:20I forget the exact number, but sort of the op,
0:47:23sort of like what we're talking about with the iPad,
0:47:26that it saw lots of growth, but a small increase in revenue.
0:47:30The Mac was flat, but a little bit more revenue,
0:47:33and so people are buying slightly more expensive machines.
0:47:37I think that's continuing to be the new MacBook Pro.
0:47:40They do have a cheaper escape version now
0:47:42with the no touch bar, but overall,
0:47:44like the entry, you know, 15 inch is more than it used to be
0:47:49to kind of decent 13 inches more than it used to be.
0:47:51So I still think that MacBook Pro is carrying that number.
0:47:54They spoke on the call about the iMac Pro.
0:47:57I think that there are definitely people holding off
0:47:59on a new iMac right now for the iMac Pro.
0:48:03And so-- - Oh yeah, for sure.
0:48:04- Once that lands the end of this year,
0:48:06which is really coming up, it's August already,
0:48:08then I expect the Mac number,
0:48:10If they can sell them in that quarter
0:48:12and it doesn't slip until calendar 2018,
0:48:15I would expect the Mac to finish the year strong
0:48:17with the iMac Pro, 'cause it's gonna be so expensive.
0:48:19And I think there are definitely people,
0:48:22almost everyone I've talked to who does what we do,
0:48:25like if they work on a Mac, most of them have iMacs,
0:48:27and most of them are the year of the 2015 or older.
0:48:31I know a bunch of people who are super pumped
0:48:34for the iMac Pro.
0:48:35- There's a pent up demand for the iMac Pro,
0:48:40and when that happens, it's gonna generate a bump
0:48:43in the MAC revenue for sure.
0:48:44- Yeah. - So I think you're right.
0:48:45- So that'll be fun to look out for.
0:48:47But I mean, all in all, a good quarter,
0:48:49I know we don't talk a lot about the results on this show,
0:48:51but I think it's interesting talking about the products
0:48:53kind of embedded in the results.
0:48:55So. - Yeah, I think so.
0:48:57- Tim also mentioned that they're a little bit of a pause
0:49:00on iPhone sales, and we're gonna talk about that
0:49:02and why that may be after this last break.
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0:51:09This story, man.
0:51:14It's the story of the year so far, I think.
0:51:17I think when we get to the end of the year, we do our year roundup.
0:51:20We're going to talk about this.
0:51:22Yeah.
0:51:23last week, a firmware bundle for the HomePod was posted to the Apple developer site.
0:51:30Uh, parentheses, LOL.
0:51:34It was downloaded as you might imagine, and a bunch of stuff came to light and we're going
0:51:39to get into that and, uh, and get into the work some people have been doing on it, but
0:51:43it blows my mind that this happened.
0:51:45Like it seems like a, a pretty, a pretty big error on Apple's part.
0:51:50It's not great.
0:51:53Yeah.
0:51:55Again, you've got people downloading this firmware files all the time.
0:52:02Especially, you know, I subscribe for example to Twitter accounts and other notification
0:52:08services that they monitor the Apple servers, like the developer servers, and they alert
0:52:13you every time there's a new firmware, like an OTA download that you can get.
0:52:19That happens for the major releases, that happens for beta seeds, that go out to developers,
0:52:26that happens for public betas.
0:52:28Anything that is on Apple CDN you can download.
0:52:31And there are tools, to give you some context, especially to our listeners, there are tools
0:52:36that allow you to download the IPSW file that is a firmware for Apple devices and to sort
0:52:43of decompress it and look inside the operating system itself to look at the APIs, to look
0:52:51at the code that Apple writes and all the assets, the references, all the symbols that
0:52:59you have like DOS, you can decompress it, you can unload everything that is in there
0:53:06and take a look. And very smart people do this all the time and this time they got lucky
0:53:13because this firmware was not supposed to be released now.
0:53:18So there's a link by John Gruber on during Fireball and he quickly mentions that he heard
0:53:25that the HomePod firmware, Apple was getting ready to seed a firmware update to a bunch
0:53:35of employees.
0:53:37And that's also what I heard, like from a bunch of folks, that there was supposed to
0:53:43be a software update for HomePod units that are currently being tested by Apple employees.
0:53:51And somewhere along that process, something happened.
0:53:55And that firmware ended up on the public server instead of the, I assume instead of the employee-only
0:54:05one.
0:54:06And I don't know how that happened.
0:54:08There can be human error, there can be a service problem, I don't know the details.
0:54:14But that seems to be the backstory that is sort of circulating at the moment.
0:54:21And of course, Apple is not commenting on any of this, but it's fun to speculate.
0:54:25Anyway, Stephen, give us the summary of what was in there, because it's quite a lot of
0:54:32stuff.
0:54:33It's quite a lot of stuff.
0:54:34So let's talk about the HomePod first, because the phone stuff I think is more immediately
0:54:41interesting.
0:54:42There's a YouTube video floating around of all the sound effects the HomePod makes.
0:54:45I listen to all of them.
0:54:47I think they're all lovely.
0:54:48Good job, sound designers.
0:54:50That's on YouTube now.
0:54:51So sorry.
0:54:53Also about the HomePod talks about the...
0:54:57There's a lot of debate about the display at the top of the HomePod.
0:55:00It seems like it's 272 by 340 pixels.
0:55:05It's under a diffuser, so it's a very low res, very simple screen, maybe even more like
0:55:12an LED matrix, but the diffuser sort of softens it.
0:55:15So that was in the code.
0:55:17There's also some information about, it reports to the app store, or it reports to itself
0:55:23that it's an iPhone SE, but there's no infrastructure right now for like app
0:55:29extensions or third-party apps, which is in line with what Apple told us, right?
0:55:34There's no third-party apps on this thing yet, but so we're learning a lot
0:55:40about the device and that's to be expected, right? You'd expect that the
0:55:42the firmware for a device talks about the device, so we know a few more things.
0:55:46But what's really interesting, the way the work of like Steven Trout Smith,
0:55:51By the way, a link to his Patreon will be in our show notes.
0:55:57Steve is just like a genuinely nice human being.
0:55:59I've gotten to know him a little bit over the last year.
0:56:02He's an incredible guy, super smart, and if you're interested in this stuff, his Patreon
0:56:07is just a wealth of information.
0:56:10So there'll be a link to that in the show notes, you should go check it out.
0:56:13But what he dug up about this next iPhone is pretty incredible.
0:56:17So the code name or the reference is D22,
0:56:20something Gruber confirmed also with the nickname of Ferrari,
0:56:26which I kinda like.
0:56:27The display resolution is known now to be 1125 by 2436.
0:56:33That would allow if my math is right native at 3x,
0:56:39so like the 6, 6S, and 7+ models are 3x,
0:56:45they're scaling off screen and then sort of smashing it down.
0:56:48This would be all native.
0:56:51It has-- in the code, there's a lot about the design,
0:56:57and then there's a lot about the face ID.
0:57:00Did you see this artwork he dug up for the way the phone looks?
0:57:04Yeah, and I'm not sure what you think.
0:57:08So we should describe it.
0:57:11It's exactly what you think it is,
0:57:13where it is-- exactly what we talked about, very thin
0:57:15bezels with some sort of cutout at the top for the cameras
0:57:20and the earpiece that sort of pushes down into the display
0:57:25area, and the display sort of comes up around it.
0:57:27It's kind of hard to explain, but if you
0:57:30think about what we've been talking about for months,
0:57:32this basically confirms it.
0:57:35Yeah, and actually, before we start
0:57:37talking about all of these features, as you mentioned,
0:57:40there is no IPSW file for the HomePod firmware,
0:57:45like in the traditional sense.
0:57:48Basically what these people caught was an OTA update
0:57:52that hit the Apple server.
0:57:55And it's like when you see like an OTA update
0:57:59for beta two to beta three, for example.
0:58:01And that goes back to the idea that it was supposed to be
0:58:06software update for Apple folks who already have a HomePod,
0:58:11and they were going to be able to update the software
0:58:14to a new version.
0:58:15So there's not like an IPSW file that you download,
0:58:19like those files that you use to restore an iPhone with iTunes.
0:58:23But there is still an OTA download
0:58:26that these people have managed to decompress and inspect.
0:58:29That makes more sense.
0:58:30OK.
0:58:31Yeah.
0:58:31Got it.
0:58:32So let's talk about the new design.
0:58:37Like, there were speculation and rumors about the fact
0:58:43that Apple was going to go with this sort of top-notch design.
0:58:48I suppose if they really go with this design,
0:58:51they're going to have some top-notch jokes
0:58:53about the iPhone.
0:58:54Oh, no.
0:58:56If Phil Shiller has an opportunity to make a dad joke,
0:58:58he's going to take the opportunity.
0:58:59Right?
0:58:59Like, he's not going to let that go by.
0:59:01Yeah.
0:59:02Yeah, they're going to put top notch in there somewhere.
0:59:05Oh, no doubt.
0:59:08My big question right now is, how does Apple
0:59:11deal with the status bar?
0:59:13Because you've got these two ears floating at the top.
0:59:18And ideally, based on also what Steve found in the code,
0:59:23there should be a way for iOS to split the status bar in two.
0:59:29So to have two halves of the status bar, one at the left, possibly with the signal and
0:59:34Wi-Fi and at the right with everything else.
0:59:38My question is, is the status bar integrated with the rest of the title bar at the bottom
0:59:44of the app or is it like a black bar that kind of blends in with the top notch, with
0:59:51the black frame of the phone?
0:59:53And because it's an OLED screen, the black of the little ears looks just like the black
0:59:59of the device itself.
1:00:02Or is it more like an edge-to-edge full bleed design where the content appears to go all
1:00:10the way up to the corners, and of course at the bottom where there's the function area
1:00:14supposedly.
1:00:16So it'll be interesting to see what kind of approach Apple takes.
1:00:18the status bar stays up at the top and it integrates with the content of apps and like
1:00:23title bars, especially with the new iOS 11 design, or if Apple kind of returns to the
1:00:28old black stars bar style of iOS 5, for example, and there's like a distinct separation between
1:00:34app content and status bar. And I don't know what to think at this point. I don't know
1:00:39what I prefer. I was looking at some mockups that were going around on Twitter. I'm not
1:00:43sure what I prefer.
1:00:44I'm with you. I'm a little torn. It looks weird to have like content or display around that notch, but
1:00:50It's only weird for the first few days and then to get used to it
1:00:54There's a blog post by Alan Pike who he really breaks into breaks us down talks about the screen resolution
1:01:01Talks about the opportunity for Apple to do stuff
1:01:04You know at the bottom of the screen and he has some screenshots there that maybe iOS
1:01:1011th design makes more sense on a phone like this
1:01:14Right. It's all very it's all very interesting
1:01:17Yeah, because you basically with iOS 11 you get the new large title bar option
1:01:22It's not enforced on developers like it's an option you can enable it or you can keep the normal title bars for context
1:01:30The large title bar is the style that you get in Apple music
1:01:33In Apple news or you know all the most of the system apps in the iOS 11 beta
1:01:39So developers can also use that option.
1:01:42And if you consider how weird it looks on existing devices, because it creates this
1:01:47big gap, you know, on top of the title, that gap makes it ideal for integrating it with
1:01:58the status bar somehow, or sort of putting the clock maybe in the center of that gap
1:02:05underneath the notch.
1:02:07That's basically the mockups that are going around.
1:02:10Or there's another idea of moving some information, some controls from the top bar to the bottom.
1:02:17So if the next iPhone gets a function area where the virtual home button, which by the
1:02:23way in the system is, in the firmware for the HomePod is called the home indicator because
1:02:30it's no longer a home button.
1:02:34the idea of putting controls next to the home button, so like the controls to navigate back,
1:02:41or maybe like the plus button that you normally see in the top right, or the compose button
1:02:46for example, that is usually in the top right, those could leave at the bottom, next to the
1:02:51home button, and they would be contextual based on the app that you're using.
1:02:55And developers wouldn't have to tweak, I guess, because the API could fall back, mostly gracefully,
1:03:03to floating those controls at the bottom.
1:03:07And by the way, there's a trend of putting these controls at the bottom, it's called
1:03:10reach navigation.
1:03:11I had a link on Mac stories a few weeks ago of helping interactions with these big phones
1:03:18that we have now by moving controls to the bottom.
1:03:21So that would be, I guess, comfortable to use.
1:03:25So take a look at those links, there's a bunch of mockups that people are imagining and it's
1:03:28It's fun to speculate, even if we have what should be the final design, we have no idea
1:03:35what the software is going to be like.
1:03:36And that is fascinating for me at this point.
1:03:39But in terms of hardware and what this phone is going to do for us, the big point is, it
1:03:45seems the confirmed lack of any Touch ID on this phone.
1:03:50And it appears that Apple is going all in on face recognition through this system that
1:03:54that is code named "Pearl" and that is referenced multiple times on the system in the Biometric
1:03:59Kit framework. So this face authentication that is going to replace Touch ID. Steve Trotton-Smith
1:04:07couldn't find any references to Touch ID, so let's just assume that Touch ID is not
1:04:11there. It's not in the back, it's not under the display. And it seems like Apple is gearing
1:04:17up to offer some major additions to the camera. So there's going to be a front-facing 3D
1:04:23sensing camera that can use face authentication to unlock the phone and supposedly authenticate
1:04:31passwords into apps and Apple Pay for payments. But also there's going to be support for
1:04:37ARKit because there's a 3D sensing camera. It can do ARKit and if you look at the code
1:04:45that Steve and the other guy, Guillermo Rambo, I think, what a name Rambo by the way, for
1:04:53on to leak the next iPhone software. You know, the Rambo leak. That's amazing.
1:05:01So if you look at the APIs that they offered screenshots, it seems like ARKit is going to gain
1:05:08some form of face knowledge, like it can assemble the geometry of your face.
1:05:17And that's going to be useful to, for example, to superimpose graphics, for example, to change
1:05:24the background of, you know, of your actual, for example, your selfie.
1:05:29You're going to take a selfie, you can change the background.
1:05:32And it's sort of what you're getting with the depth API in iOS 11, where on the iPhone
1:05:387 Plus, if you take a photo on iOS 11, developers can make photo editing apps to change the
1:05:43depth map of the photo.
1:05:46the same but for selfies, for the front-facing camera. So you take a sort of like photo booth
1:05:51on the Mac but done much better using the ARKit, I guess. And also the idea of this
1:05:58is a recent discovery. There's going to be a, it appears in the code, there's a reference
1:06:04to a feature called the SmartCam. And the SmartCam, it seems it can recognize various
1:06:09types of scenery and context. So if you take a look at the screenshots, there's like scene,
1:06:15pet or seen sky or seen foliage or fireworks. So think of the knowledge that Photos has
1:06:24in the Photos app, but apply that to the camera in real time. It could be fun to imagine like
1:06:31having a smart cam that can focus automatically on babies or on pets or understand what the
1:06:38the background is and for example adjust exposure in real time because it
1:06:44understands that's the sky and that's a tree you know like in real time that
1:06:49could be pretty cool
1:06:50yeah point shoot cameras even and even nicer cameras have modes you can put
1:06:55them in but you're like I am shooting fireworks or hey I'm outdoors or
1:06:59whatever but they're sort of dumb right because they don't have that they have
1:07:03some parameters they change but they're not adaptive to what's going on where
1:07:07this sort of technology can take that further and say, hey, I'm shooting this sort of thing,
1:07:11but take all the information you know and all the information you're gathering in real
1:07:13time and make decisions about the picture I'm getting ready to take. That is super exciting
1:07:19to me.
1:07:20Yeah, yeah. I think it is very exciting to have this real time AI like applied to this,
1:07:28to the app that millions of people use every day, which is the camera. If it really works,
1:07:33could be pretty awesome. And finally, moving to the bottom of the phone to speculate on
1:07:39the code that was found. It doesn't seem like the function area where the home indicator
1:07:45is gonna be. It doesn't seem like it's gonna be programmable by developers because Steve
1:07:51Transmit couldn't find APIs for developers to put custom controls in there. So I'm curious
1:07:59to see if Apple is not allowing developers to fully customize that, if it maybe lends
1:08:06some value to the idea of that is the, you know, on the old iPhones you write the title
1:08:15bar as usual, but on the new one it goes to the bottom. But what happens, you know, like,
1:08:23it's gonna be strange if moving from the old generation of iPhones where some stuff is
1:08:29at the top and then suddenly is at the bottom and there's no home button anymore.
1:08:33But also what happens to the system keyboard?
1:08:35Like where is the keyboard displayed?
1:08:38Is it displayed above the function area?
1:08:40So if you look at your iPhone now, you have a physical function area, which is, you know,
1:08:45the bezel where the home button is.
1:08:47And obviously the keyboard is displayed in the screen where the software can be displayed.
1:08:52But now if you assume that the bezel is going to be a screen, does the keyboard still sit
1:08:57on top of the function area or does the keyboard cover the home button? But if the keyboard
1:09:02covers the home button, then you cannot go home anymore. So we have to assume there's
1:09:07going to be, this function area is going to be persistent all the time, otherwise it's
1:09:11just going to be weird. And at this point I wonder, what if we are overthinking all
1:09:17this and the function area is just going to be black because it looks like an iPhone?
1:09:23Because we're coming up with all these mockups, like Apple is going to put a touch bar in
1:09:28there or it's going to be programmable developers, it's going to blend in with the content.
1:09:32But all the mockups I see of these top bars on top of the function area, or a keyboard
1:09:38on top of the function area, and it creates this contrast between the two elements on
1:09:43screen.
1:09:44Either the mockups are not really done well, or the function area is still just a black
1:09:49spot for the virtual home button or Apple is clever, more clever than all of us combined
1:09:58and they devised this amazing design that takes advantage of the fact that it's a screen
1:10:04but also looks elegant, looks polished, it doesn't look like, it doesn't stick out, you
1:10:08know, with that virtual home button and the area around it. And this goes back to the
1:10:15point of "I'm really excited about all this because we know nothing about the software,
1:10:19we know nothing about the design, we only saw this glyph of what is going to be the
1:10:24phone with the top notch". And we get these references in the code that was uploaded by
1:10:31mistaken Apple servers. And we think we know all the features that are going to come out,
1:10:37But in reality, some people think that these APIs are just written and created just before
1:10:46the iPhone comes out.
1:10:48But obviously, there's engineers who have been working on these APIs and this code for
1:10:53a couple of years, at least.
1:10:56This has been in the works for such a long time.
1:10:59And there's a contrast between the work that engineers do that can go on for a really long
1:11:05time and the executive decisions that can be made at the very last moment. If Tim Cook
1:11:11decides "We're not going to do the SmartCam", then that code is going to be scrapped, it's
1:11:17going to be removed and we're not going to have a SmartCam because it doesn't work well.
1:11:21Or if at the very last moment Craig Federighi says "Nope, drag and drop, it's not going
1:11:25to be on the iPhone between multiple apps". So finding an API reference is not necessarily
1:11:32a guarantee for the feature to come out in September. Because features are in the works
1:11:36for years, but it takes an executive decision on a whim in an afternoon to be pulled. So,
1:11:43considering all this, the fact that it's still early August and that we only got the rumors
1:11:49and the glyph and these APIs, we know nothing about the software, that together makes me
1:11:56super super excited about this iPhone, in a way that I wasn't excited about the iPhone
1:12:00in years, you know, I feel like the between iOS 11 on the iPad and whatever Apple is doing
1:12:06with this iPhone Pro iPhone 8, it's gonna be a pretty awesome fall for iOS.
1:12:13I think so. And you know, I agree with you. I think before this stuff, I was excited about
1:12:18this iPhone. And yes, leaks do damage the surprise of it. But I'm really excited about
1:12:25the opportunities Apple and third party developers have
1:12:29to do with this device.
1:12:30And it's gonna be a fun, you know,
1:12:35we're five or six weeks out from the event
1:12:39and I'm just looking forward to it.
1:12:41You know, one thing that is interesting
1:12:43to sort of wrap this stuff up
1:12:45is there's been this talk about leaks from Apple
1:12:49come from Apple now, right?
1:12:50Like you still get supply chain leaks
1:12:52but they're clamping down on that.
1:12:54And this is a pretty massive stroke in that column.
1:12:59- Yeah, well, I think a leak is, you know,
1:13:04something that is made consciously,
1:13:07like you want to leak information.
1:13:10This is just an accident.
1:13:12- I think it is too.
1:13:13Yeah, I don't think anybody sat around saying,
1:13:15oh, I want to do this.
1:13:16But nevertheless, like the outcome's kind of the same.
1:13:19- Yes, yes, it is.
1:13:21- But it's--
1:13:22Even more so than in the past, because even before, we never got to look at the APIs months
1:13:28in advance. We never got to look at the code names, you know, months before the event.
1:13:33So in terms of just the outcome alone, it's even worse than in the past, because before
1:13:39we had Gurman on 9to5Mac, and we had some cases from the Chinese manufacturers and maybe
1:13:45some supply chain rumors. But now the new generation of Apple rumors and leaks, you
1:13:51you know, with Ming-Chu Kuo and, you know, Mecha Takara, the Japanese blog, and, you
1:13:57know, some rumors on, what's it called, Weibo, you know, the Chinese Twitter. We have those,
1:14:04but you know, it seems like we're in a different age of Apple rumors. And so this "leak" from
1:14:10the HomePod firmware sort of restores the previous glory of Apple leaks, you know, because
1:14:17it's a lot of details and for us it's kind of awesome. I would not say the same for the
1:14:22people at Apple who worked on this and I cannot imagine you know if this I mean we have to
1:14:27assume this was an accident so I cannot assume you know if there's anybody responsible for
1:14:32this like this must have been hell on them so I feel for those people because you know
1:14:37accidents happen and mistakes can be made and in this case it was a pretty big mistake
1:14:43So yeah, so that's that.
1:14:47New design, new features.
1:14:51One question that came to mind when you were talking about the
1:14:55IPSW versus the OTA.
1:14:59Why is this stuff in an update aimed for the HomePod?
1:15:03So, here's how it works.
1:15:07The HomePod update
1:15:11reports version as iOS 11.0.2. So it's two patches ahead of what we are going to get
1:15:21if we get iOS 11.0 in September. Those are two patches ahead. And the way that these
1:15:28patches work, they are developed in tandem with the public release. Of course, it's different
1:15:33teams working on different stuff. For example, you know, some engineers maybe from, let's
1:15:38say from the drag and drop team, they have already moved on from what is going to be
1:15:43the public release, and they're now working on the next one.
1:15:46And there's other engineers who are dealing with the beta and with the feedback and incorporating
1:15:49the stuff from beta testers and developers.
1:15:53And there's obviously people who are working on iOS 11.0.1, 0.2, and maybe iOS 11.1 and
1:16:010.2.
1:16:03And when those updates are seeded to internal testers, so Apple employees, the API references,
1:16:10the symbols and all the design assets that are normally scrubbed from the developer release
1:16:18in June, the betas that we get, those things are not removed because it's Apple people.
1:16:28They are obligated to an NDA.
1:16:29cannot talk about stuff and they should see stuff because they are testing the HomePod,
1:16:35they are maybe testing the next iPhone, so they need to see those, they need those features
1:16:39to be working. And so when a mistake is made like this and when that firmware, you know,
1:16:45that maybe adds iPhone Pro integration to the HomePod, so Apple was like, "We're gonna
1:16:50add iPhone Pro integration, so make sure to update your HomePods." And the firmware file
1:16:56ends up in the wrong directory.
1:16:58Instead of going to Apple employees,
1:17:00it goes on to the public.
1:17:02And of course, you're gonna see all of those things.
1:17:04You're gonna see all of those APIs,
1:17:05you're gonna see all of those features.
1:17:07And the reason why it's in an update,
1:17:11it's because Apple is obviously ahead of our schedule,
1:17:16and they're making the next versions of iOS 11 already,
1:17:21and there's people inside Apple who are testing those.
1:17:24And to test those, they need to have the features working,
1:17:27which means no code can be scrapped,
1:17:30which means if you make a mistake,
1:17:32everybody's going to see that.
1:17:34And because there are extraction tools
1:17:36to decompress and inspect these files,
1:17:39whether it's a firmware update or an IPSW,
1:17:42this is the result.
1:17:44We're now talking about the APIs in August.
1:17:46Yeah.
1:17:48- Cool.
1:17:49Well, I appreciate that explanation.
1:17:52So if you want to find show notes this week,
1:17:54you can do so on our website, relay.fm/connected/153.
1:17:59You can get in touch with us there via email or by Twitter.
1:18:03The show is at _connectedfm.
1:18:05Federico is there at Vatici,
1:18:07and you can find his writing a course at maxstories.net.
1:18:11Myke will be back next week.
1:18:12You can find him at @imyke on Twitter.
1:18:15You can find my writing at 512pixels.net,
1:18:17and I am @ismh on Twitter.
1:18:19So I think that's it.
1:18:22So until next time, Federico, say goodbye.
1:18:25- Adios, derti. - Adios.