0:00:00[Music]
0:00:06From Real AFM, this is Connected, episode 145.
0:00:10Today's show is brought to you by Hover, Max Stadium, and Igloo.
0:00:14My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined across the table
0:00:17by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen Hackett.
0:00:19I am across the table.
0:00:20Table. And Mr. Federico Vittucci.
0:00:23Hello.
0:00:23Ciao Federico.
0:00:24Ciao. Ciao.
0:00:24Hi, Federico.
0:00:26Yay.
0:00:26This is the first time we have ever recorded a regular episode of connected in person. Yeah
0:00:31Or anything never recorded the prompt in person because last year when we're together for the very first time ever
0:00:38We did relay con it was a for I was that just a year ago. It was one year ago
0:00:42It feels like it was 20 years
0:00:44Long time ago, so we are in
0:00:48What do we call this area studio B right now recording studio B stands for bunk bed. Yep
0:00:55Studio double-b because there's bunk beds in this room in an Airbnb air bunk in bed
0:01:00And we should probably get on with the show so we were talking last time about our wishes predictions for wdc
0:01:09Yes, and Rosemary create on Twitter. She created a
0:01:12The happy ometer graph kind of artwork thing. I guess we'll call it
0:01:17So I'm gonna put that in the show notes so you can take a look and I figured we should maybe go through and grade
0:01:24If we got our wildest dreams
0:01:26So Steven, would you like to go through some of the results of this? I would I would love to I'm just pulling it up here
0:01:33Okay, so we if you remember last week we each picked from each category iOS Mac OS hardware and other
0:01:40Other it really struggled the name the last category wasn't good. But what are you gonna do grab bag? Yeah
0:01:47Hmm so
0:01:50Let's start with we'll go that person will start with Myke so Myke
0:01:55Asks for additional software functionality for the Apple pencil. Look he kind of got it. There's new stuff. The pencil can do. Yep
0:02:01You got Siri speaker, yep, mostly it's mostly a speaker that mostly has Siri in it
0:02:08Yeah revised app had pro accessories. There's new ones that we didn't have before we'll talk about them later
0:02:12Yeah, and then the one I it was in my other and it was in like my wild category
0:02:18You win for like wild idea that came true.
0:02:21"See Apple start to embrace AR or VR."
0:02:24Turns out got both.
0:02:25We'll talk about that later.
0:02:26I'm really excited about that actually.
0:02:28So that was pretty good.
0:02:29Really the only thing I got that was mentioned was updated Macs.
0:02:34Almost all of them got updated.
0:02:36You didn't really get...
0:02:37I'm looking at this now like...
0:02:38It didn't do great.
0:02:39No, you didn't do too good.
0:02:41I mean there might be some stuff like improvements to Mail.
0:02:43More powerful time machine.
0:02:44machine. Yeah like Mel searches better but I wanted snoozing and stuff none of
0:02:49that. Time machine there's a little like to be determined. This is a whole
0:02:54list of sadness. Yeah Federico did well though integrating consolidated family
0:02:59sharing experience kind of their shared storage now which is like a step in the
0:03:03right direction so I'll give you that. SiriKit there was more stuff I mean there
0:03:06wasn't a ton of stuff. Technically there was more SiriKit. Yeah so I'll make that one green. Bug fixes
0:03:14for Mac OS. Yeah you were really unhappy with that one. Actually I had 100% figured out because they said we're gonna do high
0:03:26Sierra we're gonna do performance, refinements, high Sierra we're gonna do high improvements so yeah I was right it's
0:03:31the era of stability on the Mac. So we don't know if we got more stable lightning cables.
0:03:37That's one thing you wanted. I don't think that's gonna happen. New iPad Pro. Well deeper and more open
0:03:43- The iPad Pro, yes, but the deeper
0:03:46and more open iMessage framework.
0:03:48I mean, to an extent, it's not that deeper,
0:03:51but there's some new APIs like you can do.
0:03:54- I don't think you were asking
0:03:56for just like a couple of new APIs.
0:03:57- You can do direct send.
0:03:59- Deeper and more open iMessage framework
0:04:02is very different to a new API.
0:04:05Like you've gone like, I want there to be iMessage,
0:04:08like you've never seen.
0:04:09It's like, oh, they added a new feature.
0:04:12No, you didn't get this.
0:04:13You did not get that and improved Apple Maps and Apple Maps took time on stage
0:04:17But it actually wasn't about Apple Maps
0:04:19Like they did the lane turning guidance, but then it was mostly the do not disturb while driving thing, which is a really cool
0:04:25Yeah, I would say you get a partial for improved Apple Maps so overall maybe yellow one
0:04:32I'm gonna say that like so overall who won I I feel like for me
0:04:36I'm closer to like the the love heart in the eyes type emoji
0:04:42on the meter, because I got something in the other category, right?
0:04:49And so I'm pretty happy about that.
0:04:50So I mean, I don't necessarily think that it's...
0:04:53I mean, we all won, you know, everybody wins here.
0:04:57Everybody gets a trophy.
0:04:58Everybody wins at Connected.
0:04:59We get participation awards for all of us.
0:05:02But I think it was good.
0:05:03Like, I think it worked out pretty well.
0:05:05I mean, just in general, right?
0:05:06Like, if we're gauging the happy-o-meter of just everything,
0:05:10I think we're all feeling pretty good this year about what's been announced.
0:05:14Totally.
0:05:15Like last year I remember having a feeling of like when we were getting ready to do the
0:05:19shows of like I actually don't know if there's enough to talk about.
0:05:23Right?
0:05:24Last year.
0:05:25It was like
0:05:26You didn't want to talk about iMessage effects?
0:05:27I mean I was excited about that but it was hardly like a deep and open iMessage framework
0:05:32like Federico is wishing for.
0:05:34What does it even mean?
0:05:35He just said some stuff.
0:05:37Yeah.
0:05:38No, it's really not.
0:05:39what neural networks and machine learning.
0:05:41- There should be ways for apps to collaborate more easily.
0:05:44There should be ways to, yeah,
0:05:47work chat, never know. - You guys don't believe me
0:05:48- More deeply and openly in the framework.
0:05:51- It's a useless discussion.
0:05:53- But yeah, I just think that like this, yeah,
0:05:56is in general, like I think everyone's feeling real good.
0:06:00Right, like it feels to me maybe iOS 8,
0:06:03you know, I think everyone felt really good at 8,
0:06:05felt really good, especially good at 9.
0:06:079 was really good.
0:06:0910 not so much. This is one of the better WWDCs since I've been coming to town paying
0:06:15a lot more attention to it.
0:06:16I think that ties into the meta conversation I wanted to have about the keynote. It feels
0:06:20very dense. It was very fast.
0:06:23There was a lot of stumbles.
0:06:25Well yeah, I think that was partially speed. I kind of wondered too if they had some tech
0:06:29stuff going on like slide stuff.
0:06:31It seemed like it because everyone was struggling in weird places. So they might have had some
0:06:37stuff going on.
0:06:38You know they do the slide everyone takes a picture of like and 30 more features
0:06:41And they're all like tiny font and take a picture of like doing later. They were up for like half a second. Yeah
0:06:48Yeah, and so I mean it was definitely fast it clocked in what a little over two hours. I think it was
0:06:57It was really packed and I had packed and I don't think there was much filler right we didn't see any
0:07:04They cut so much of the usual stuff.
0:07:06Yeah, and they some of it was in press releases before so like the 70 billion paid out to developers and so those metrics
0:07:13They pushed out the Swift playground update so you can do like Lego Mindstorm and a bunch more stuff
0:07:18Which is awesome like super cool stuff and would have been a really fun demo. It would have been a great demo
0:07:23But there's just so much to get through and you know
0:07:26You could argue that with two products aren't shipping till December but get teased here one of which
0:07:30I'm not sure needed to be which we'll get to
0:07:34All in all I give it a thumbs up. So I think I think a lot of people are really happy with what Apple's done
0:07:39This week. Yeah, I know we are. Yeah. Yeah, I'm over the moon. I'm not I'm really angry
0:07:43Give them the framework like this only us for really it's just a deep
0:07:50Open I'm message framework and they weren't listening. Wow. They just weren't listening. That's my and the lightning cables man. They're not sturdy
0:07:57Deep and open I message cables. So you were there Federico right again sitting in the audience
0:08:03audience. What was it like this year compared to last year? Well the coffee was terrible
0:08:07like last year so there was no change. I'm not sure that's what he was asking about.
0:08:12Like if that's what... That's an important detail for me. I'm speaking, I have the microphone
0:08:16here. I see the floties. So I mean the venue was much much nicer than... Oh yeah? I mean
0:08:27Bill Graham is visually impressive.
0:08:30The neighborhood, not so much.
0:08:32- And that's just general for San Jose, right?
0:08:35Like downtown San Jose is vastly nicer
0:08:38to downtown San Francisco.
0:08:39- Yeah, the general idea is San Jose is much nicer
0:08:42and there's lots of trees and flowers
0:08:46and it's always sunny.
0:08:47It's nice.
0:08:48It's more friendly, more human.
0:08:50The convention center outside, it's very cozy.
0:08:54It's like you can eat lunch outside.
0:08:56So when we were waiting in line, it was nice to look at,
0:09:00even if we couldn't actually sit down.
0:09:01- It looks like a festival.
0:09:02- It looks like a festival, yes.
0:09:03- They got music playing outside all the time.
0:09:05- There was music, we were waiting in line,
0:09:07they were playing music, they were playing "Haim",
0:09:09which I was singing, nobody else was singing "Haim".
0:09:12- I would have sung with you, you know that.
0:09:13- Yeah, I know, I was missing you.
0:09:14Then we got inside and they made us wait
0:09:16for a couple of hours.
0:09:18Strict security, which is to be expected with these times.
0:09:22They made us wait for a couple of hours,
0:09:24So we were just sitting on the floor.
0:09:26That's when the coffee thing happened.
0:09:29It's like, eh.
0:09:29Then we got inside.
0:09:33And I mean, the big room was sort of like Presidio
0:09:38at Moscone, maybe a bit wider.
0:09:41The keynote watching, really my only gripe,
0:09:46and I think John Siracusa mentioned it on ATP Live,
0:09:49was that the screen was like,
0:09:53sitting in the audience you couldn't see the bottom half, not the bottom half but
0:09:56maybe the bottom third so all the details at the bottom you just couldn't
0:09:59see them it was like everybody was like... So are there other screens like not
0:10:03everyone's looking at the front? Yeah but the screens were kind of like tilted. The screens are just... okay. So from our position we were in this like in the
0:10:09central area of the room and we couldn't look at the... So all you could see was what was right at the front? All I could see was the big screen at the front and the
0:10:18other ones up in the air we couldn't see them. Overall it was fine really it was
0:10:25nice eating lunch outside in San Jose is nice is probably a problem for other
0:10:31people because it's really hot so we were kind of roasting out there. I give
0:10:37it a thumbs up and I guess you can you see me giving a thumbs up too. I assume it was just
0:10:43more fun watching the keynote this year because you were getting things you
0:10:46wanted right like that probably made it more exciting there's some great
0:10:49pictures of you like John Siracusa kept posting. These pictures are going
0:10:55around I guess some people don't even know what they came from John Siracusa
0:11:00and sort of because people are saving the photo and sharing it again. You're a
0:11:05big deal. As sort of a meme I got a bunch of tweets from people like get yourself
0:11:10partner who looks at you like Vitii looks at you.
0:11:17My mom this morning sent me the photo and was like "oh you're really cute here, you're
0:11:21smiling, you're happy".
0:11:22Where's she coming from?
0:11:23I have no idea.
0:11:24Your mom is the biggest fan of Syracuse.
0:11:26Yeah, I guess.
0:11:29She's really into the finder, you know.
0:11:32She's a fan.
0:11:33She's my kind of lady.
0:11:35Well, I think we can move on.
0:11:37We gotta eject somebody a ball.
0:11:39I know what we can do. We could take a break.
0:11:41I want to thank our first sponsor this week,
0:11:43and we've got a little special thanks for them as well in a moment.
0:11:46But we're going to talk about Mac Stadium.
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0:12:41authority. Learn more about them at macstadium.com/relay.
0:12:46So we are big fans of MacStadium, so our live streaming server is hosted there. So if you
0:12:53ever listen to us live, it's coming to you from Las Vegas, where we have our Mac Mini.
0:12:57But we also just wanted to thank them. We did a meetup last night that was a fantastic
0:13:01success. Anybody that came to the meetup, we really hope that you enjoyed looking at
0:13:05the quilts. It was really nice. The Italian soda was really good. Federico denies its
0:13:09Italian-ness though.
0:13:10It was not really Italian.
0:13:13No. But Max Stadium helped us with that. They were the sponsor of the event so we just wanted
0:13:18to extend an extra special thanks for them for helping us put that event on. And I would
0:13:22like to thank Steven for putting it all together because it was fantastic and all I had to
0:13:26do was show up so thank you Mr. Hackett.
0:13:27You're welcome.
0:13:28Alright, should we jump into some more of the announcements from the keynote?
0:13:32Yeah, so I thought we could walk through, we're not gonna walk through everything, we're
0:13:37not even gonna necessarily go in chronological order, but kinda talk about the high points
0:13:41and how we think about it. The nice thing about doing the show on Tuesdays, we've had
0:13:44some time to digest and think.
0:13:46And also time to see the random tweets that people post, the features.
0:13:50Yes.
0:13:51Those are my favorite things.
0:13:52Those are the best ones.
0:13:53It's my favorite thing about WWDC.
0:13:54It's like I found this one line of detail somewhere. Because it really is, I mean, there's
0:14:00There's stuff on stage in the keynote, there's stuff in State of the Union, there's stuff
0:14:04in labs, there's stuff in documentation.
0:14:06It takes a while to get to the bottom of it all.
0:14:10And so there'll be stuff that we're going to get wrong.
0:14:12It's fine, it's day two, like that happens.
0:14:15But lots of fun stuff.
0:14:17But I think we need to start with the saddest of Apple's platforms this week, tvOS.
0:14:23Well I mean, okay, so I get what you're saying, because there was absolutely zero operating
0:14:27system features.
0:14:28There are some in the state of the union like a slide with 4 to 5 icons so I assume at least
0:14:344 to 5 features are coming. Which is exciting.
0:14:37I think that like, ok so we got Amazon Prime Video right which is good news right? Tim
0:14:42did his absolute best to sell that.
0:14:45To sell Amazon.
0:14:46He did a real good job on that. I feel like he was doing it if his teeth just gritted
0:14:49the whole time.
0:14:50We love Amazon.
0:14:51Amazon are so good.
0:14:54But I think that we didn't see a lot about tvOS because...
0:14:58I mean there's not even a tvOS preview page on Apple's website.
0:15:02What is there to preview?
0:15:03I think that...
0:15:04It's just, you click the link and it takes you to Amazon Prime Video.
0:15:07I think we need new hardware first.
0:15:08I think this is like an iPhone-y type situation.
0:15:11It seems like we're due for 4K hardware.
0:15:14I think that's coming.
0:15:15It's gotta be, right?
0:15:16And I assume that there'll be new features when they announce the box.
0:15:19It's time.
0:15:20So, Amazon Prime, we've all wanted it.
0:15:23It's here.
0:15:24great. Will we here? Right, what? Summer? Did I even say? I don't think they gave a
0:15:29date, I think they just said soon. So I kind of assumed in the fall with everything else,
0:15:34but there's nothing stopping them from just putting it in the App Store today. Soon is
0:15:37my favorite date. It is. It's always just around the corner. So let's move on to WatchOS.
0:15:44CPOS man. What a failed platform. So we have some tweets later, we're going to answer questions,
0:15:54And Joe Steele was like, do you remember when they said the future of TV is apps?
0:15:57Like, oh yeah, it's not.
0:15:59It's not.
0:16:00It's not like, so we're jumping all over the place.
0:16:03There's no apps for HomePod right now.
0:16:06There's nothing.
0:16:07You are jumping around.
0:16:08That's correct.
0:16:09And this made me think, right?
0:16:11So Apple, the last two OSs that they released were WatchOS and TVOS, and they
0:16:16had app stores for both of those.
0:16:18Then they had an app store for iMessage apps.
0:16:20Oh yeah.
0:16:21I remember that.
0:16:21None of those have taken off.
0:16:22Right.
0:16:23I think that hopefully they are learning that they need to stop thinking
0:16:27that they can just put an app store on everything.
0:16:30It'll be successful because the last three that they've done have been kind of duds.
0:16:34Like nobody uses tvOS app store, right?
0:16:38Like it may as well be like how the old Apple TV was,
0:16:41every time a new video provider just shows up.
0:16:43Yeah, that's all anybody wants. Right.
0:16:45And then watch OS is people really using like a ton of watch apps.
0:16:49My biggest tech purchase regret of like the last year was the Apple TV gaming.
0:16:57Yeah, because I'm the Nimbus controller.
0:17:01I used it twice to play like some racing game with my kid and then it's just been sitting
0:17:05under the TV ever since.
0:17:07You lost the game.
0:17:07It destroyed me.
0:17:08So, I mean, the reality is you're bringing these mobile games to TVOS and they're kind
0:17:14of realizing that I can play the mobile game on my iPhone and iPad and it's probably better
0:17:18because it's always with me and you know I don't have the Siri remote to deal with.
0:17:23And then if I wanted to play on the TV I have an actual console like the PlayStation on the Switch.
0:17:28So it's kind of stuck in the middle of this Apple desire to bring the iOS games to the big screen.
0:17:34It doesn't really work because the iOS games are best on iOS and the big screen is best for
0:17:38consoles. So what do you do? It's a failed product. It's just interesting to me right to see like all
0:17:45all these app stores and they're just, they're dead.
0:17:48Like I opened the watch app the other day. Um,
0:17:50cause I was serving in Federico or something like a Dean was installing the most
0:17:54recent update and she was just looking at the software update page for like a
0:17:57couple of minutes. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like,
0:17:59I'm waiting for it to install.
0:18:00She didn't press the install button cause it's just a yellow word. Yeah. Right.
0:18:04She's a word that says install. She's like, what's it doing? I was like, yeah,
0:18:08you got to press that button. That's not a button. I was like, yeah, I know.
0:18:11It's just a piece of text.
0:18:13(laughing)
0:18:14And while we were there,
0:18:16like while I was showing Federico,
0:18:17I was like, oh there's a whole App Store tab.
0:18:20Does anybody ever go to their, like,
0:18:23you just install it--
0:18:23- It's just white as soon as--
0:18:25- Yeah, which is hilarious, right?
0:18:27'Cause the whole app's black and then all of a sudden
0:18:29it's like just bright light.
0:18:30It's like people install the watch apps,
0:18:32they just do it in other places.
0:18:34You don't browse that, but anyway.
0:18:35- Yeah, so let's talk about watchOS.
0:18:38A couple things here.
0:18:41Kevin Lynch has like a cool guy hair cut. He's got a little beard, he's got some long hair.
0:18:47Yeah, I couldn't see from the distance. He looks good. He's handsome. He's like Kevin Lynch 2.0.
0:18:51Yeah, he's enjoying life in Apple Park. Yeah. So...
0:18:55He maybe enjoyed it a little bit too much. Yeah, the kaleidoscope watch face came out of a drugstore.
0:19:00I feel like there's a story behind that watch face. It took a trip to High Sierra.
0:19:03So new watch faces, kaleidoscopes, the one we're making fun of.
0:19:09It's impossible to see the hands on the watch face
0:19:12It looks like what acid must feel like to your brain. I know every time that like we're together
0:19:18I'm just gonna put that watch face on my watch because it would drive everybody crazy
0:19:21I like to see me use it in the kaleidoscope face. Yeah, I feel like it's something I would do
0:19:25I'm gonna give it a go because it's so it's just ridiculous
0:19:27Yeah, I was like it felt like stepping in an alternate reality. Like we were looking at each other
0:19:31So it's this real like and it's so great to put a photo on your watch face
0:19:35and now it's a kaleidoscope and look at this color. It's like what is going on here?
0:19:39Is that a watch face?
0:19:40Yeah, Kevin Lynch has some sort of vision question in the woods and didn't come back okay.
0:19:44It just fundamentally makes no sense why you'd choose that. Like, I don't know how that came up.
0:19:48Or like, I know what we'll do, we'll make it a kaleidoscope.
0:19:50The thing hasn't got a camera on it, right? So you can't look at it live. Like, it doesn't make any sense.
0:19:54What, yeah, what terrible watch faces didn't make the cut?
0:19:57Oh god.
0:19:58So we also have some Toy Story watch faces.
0:20:03We have Buzz and Woody and Jesse.
0:20:07You know, it's in the vein of Mickey and Minnie.
0:20:09- If you're gonna do it, I mean like this--
0:20:09- They're fun, they're fun.
0:20:10- Yeah.
0:20:11- They should sell those.
0:20:13There should be an app store for watch faces
0:20:15with popular characters.
0:20:16- Pixar and Disney were just like,
0:20:18it's like printing your own money.
0:20:19- Yeah.
0:20:20I mean, just make it,
0:20:21that's an app store I would sort of understand.
0:20:24- 'Cause it's like a UI theme thing.
0:20:26Exactly because it's a UI thing and thing people love personalization and
0:20:30Just make it easy to buy like 99 cents and you get a character
0:20:34I'm starting to I mean at the point where watchOS 4 now I do not envision a world where Apple has a watch face store.
0:20:41I mean anything can happen right like the last few years have shown that?
0:20:45We have eGPUs we can do anything.
0:20:47You got a kaleidoscope face so you're really sure?
0:20:50That's true.
0:20:51Some people were kind of making fun of the Toy Story watch face
0:20:55And I think it's because like in a lack of like real updates like maybe he's kind of poked fun
0:21:00This is all they did, but I think it's great. I think people enjoy that sort of stuff
0:21:04You know you're gonna wear on you know, but my kids will want to see it
0:21:08And then we have a Siri watch face and there's been some back and forth. I did some ring today
0:21:16There is a Siri complication that can kind of launch you into this environment
0:21:19it looks like, but the Siri face is basically Siri proactive on the phone, which if anyone
0:21:27has used it, it's not. It's okay. Kind of reminds me of the pebble thing that we're
0:21:32trying to do. The timeline. It's exactly that. Very much like that. I realized this when
0:21:37I was talking to Jason on an upgrade yesterday, like it popped into my head like, well, I
0:21:40know I've seen this before. It was that, right? That was their entire OS was built around
0:21:45this. Like the thing you want now is right at the top and then you scroll through. And
0:21:49And I remember us saying at the time, like, that is a really good idea.
0:21:51It's a great way to do it.
0:21:52When I saw this, I was like, look, if it works, that is all the watch should ever be, right?
0:21:59Like just the things that you need to see.
0:22:01Like, when this comes out, when Watch House 4 comes out, I'm going to switch my watch
0:22:05face to this and I'm going to try it.
0:22:06Like, I want to see if it can do it.
0:22:08Like even just telling me when my next meeting is.
0:22:10Yeah.
0:22:11And it showcases this new design language they're using on the watch.
0:22:15It's like tiles.
0:22:16like tiles and cards and bolder typography.
0:22:21- Yeah, it looks really good.
0:22:23I like it, you know, in the activity app,
0:22:26it used to be just a list of things,
0:22:27sort of in colored cells,
0:22:29but now there's some depth to it.
0:22:31I think it looks really nice.
0:22:32- Overall, the animations of watchOS 4 look really great.
0:22:36Like when you're doing a workout
0:22:38and there's a little like silhouette
0:22:39just running in the corner
0:22:41and when you complete the rings
0:22:42and there's like a Catherine wheel and stuff.
0:22:44- Yeah, I think, you know, watchOS 4 is the first time
0:22:48they've been able to like iterate on a watchOS.
0:22:51Every year up until now they were burning it down
0:22:53and rebuilding it.
0:22:54You know, watchOS 1 and then 2 and then 3 last year
0:22:57was a huge change.
0:22:57This is the first time.
0:22:58- Well, there might be some elements to that though, right?
0:22:59Like we were just looking at it.
0:23:00Apparently they got rid of the honeycomb.
0:23:02- There are some conflicting reports about the honeycomb.
0:23:05- So we will follow up on that.
0:23:07- But we saw a picture. - It could be fake news.
0:23:09- It could be fake news.
0:23:11We fake tweets.
0:23:12We saw a picture of a list of apps.
0:23:14alphabetical list of apps with no honeycomb. So, but that could be in settings, I mean who knows,
0:23:19but it could be a setting, but they're adding polish like yeah the little animations they're
0:23:23adding I think the watch should have some whimsy to it because it's it's a fun device like it should
0:23:28have some personality to it. You should feel a little bit alive. Yeah and they're doing that now
0:23:34so I really like what they've shown so far of how the watch the OS looks. I think it got just the
0:23:40right amount of time. It's not that important of a platform in the grand
0:23:46scheme of things, but they should be making it better, right? Like, so I think
0:23:50balancing that makes sense. Like, they didn't go over the board, right? Because
0:23:54we're all expecting maybe something like sleep tracking, but maybe just don't do
0:23:57that yet. Like, maybe wait, right? Like, there's no need to, like, just stuff the
0:24:01watch full of stuff every year. Yeah, and sleep tracking may be something that's
0:24:05tied to hardware, that maybe they can get a better battery or different types of
0:24:09sensors or something. So yeah I think all in all like watchOS 4 it's iterative
0:24:15it's gonna make it better. The bulk of the work though was in in the fitness
0:24:19arena which you would expect so you can pair a watch now to certain lines of gym
0:24:24equipment. So you know if I get on an elliptical machine it can talk to my
0:24:29watch and make sure all the data matches. At least in the gym I work out in it's
0:24:33gonna be about 150 years before they... It's straight up never happening. Yeah. It's just not gonna happen.
0:24:38Gym equipment is incredibly expensive.
0:24:40- Yeah, and it's long-term,
0:24:41but it will slowly over time do it.
0:24:43I'm sure the new fancy Apple gym has all that equipment.
0:24:48But I like that sort of thing.
0:24:49It should be aware of your surroundings.
0:24:52And Federico's gonna ask you if you knew much about it.
0:24:55You can do some Bluetooth stuff now,
0:24:57so you can pair it to certain types of,
0:24:59I don't really know what's going on.
0:25:01- Yeah, I really don't understand this stuff
0:25:03because I never had this kind of equipment.
0:25:05But my understanding is there's core Bluetooth,
0:25:07it's now a watchOS, so it can talk directly to like heart rate sensors instead of going
0:25:15back and forth with the iPhone.
0:25:16Right, because there was this rumor of a glucose monitor that apparently Tim Cook's been wearing
0:25:20and it turns out that like it's a third party thing.
0:25:23Yeah.
0:25:24Right.
0:25:25So the watch can talk directly to that sort of in real time and monitor the stats being
0:25:28captured by the sensors.
0:25:30I think that makes a lot more sense than them trying to just build it all themselves.
0:25:34For now.
0:25:35I mean it's a good way to sort of understand people's needs and to collect data, see how
0:25:41many people use it, see how it scales like in, for example in HealthKit, how it works
0:25:46and if people have any complaints before you roll out your own solution.
0:25:49Plus they can build the software, right, with the third party hardware.
0:25:52Like I think it's good.
0:25:54I'm happy with the watchOS stuff, like there's nothing in there that is too bold, right,
0:26:01like it's just nice improvements to a...
0:26:05like watchOS 3 is a pretty stable system, like watchOS 3 is pretty good and so I'm looking forward to it.
0:26:12I'm not, I remember last year like that was weirdly the platform that I was the most excited for
0:26:17was watchOS 3 because it was like oh it looks like they've really fixed this so I'm looking
0:26:22forward to trying that out too. I'm not sure about the dock redesign like now it's a vertical list of
0:26:29Oh really?
0:26:30Yeah, I think they mentioned that in the keynote.
0:26:33I'm not surprised because up and down scrolling with left to right movement confuses me literally
0:26:39every single time.
0:26:40Never know which way to go.
0:26:41I always go the wrong way.
0:26:43So like I get that and like you're only going to see the same amount of content on the screen
0:26:46because it was always full screen one card.
0:26:48I don't know, I feel like they've been trying so hard this year again to push the digital
0:26:52crown as an interaction method.
0:26:55But it is the best way to use the watch because your fingers just cover the
0:26:59entire screen. Yeah but the dock, the horizontal dock is just so easy to use you just swipe.
0:27:04But you just swipe in a different direction. Yeah I don't know. Because it'll be the same amount of
0:27:07content on the screen you only ever see one card at a time you're just going up and down.
0:27:11I don't know I feel like swiping vertically with my finger covers more than swiping horizontally.
0:27:17Yeah but that's why I use the crown. Yeah they have to justify the crown experience.
0:27:22So I got the worst of both worlds. Don't update. Yeah just run watch osu! 3 forever.
0:27:28forever yeah this is next year when they change it when they change it again when
0:27:32it goes diagonally when it becomes a honeycomb yeah when the watch is star
0:27:37shaped and you have to I mean yeah there's still people running Mac OS 9
0:27:40you can just join those people you mean you then you a little bit yeah you are
0:27:44people so yeah so I think that's all the watch stuff
0:27:47hi Sierra hmm you've got like a good six to eight weeks of me doing this joke I
0:27:54I just want everyone to know.
0:27:55- You understand I didn't pick the name.
0:27:57- Yeah, I know, but this is just to everyone,
0:28:00'cause I'm annoying everyone with it,
0:28:02but I think it's so funny.
0:28:04- It's this, it's the millennials snow leopard,
0:28:07is really what it is.
0:28:07- Yeah, but we get this every time though, right?
0:28:09Like at the last--
0:28:10- So let me ask you.
0:28:12- For listeners, they're both looking at me
0:28:14as if I commit a crime.
0:28:15- You make folks.
0:28:17- Yeah, you really alienated some people.
0:28:19You really made some people,
0:28:21you hurt some feelings last week.
0:28:22You're making fun of me. - Okay, I get it.
0:28:23was in good faith. I mean, you guys know me, I'm joking every time I do this. He really just uses a
0:28:28Mac, that's all there is. So. But it's alright though, because the iPad is a Mac now, right? Yeah.
0:28:34We all love each other again. We're all in the same boat. It's all, yeah. So, some folks have been asking
0:28:41for a long time to Apple shoot Slow Down and do another Snow Leopard. So now that you have it, how
0:28:47does it feel? I'm good with it, honestly. I mean, the name is like super cringy. The name is ridiculous.
0:28:53The name is terrible. So I did a post last week of terrible Mac OS names that they could choose from.
0:29:00And I really wish I'd put this in the document. If I had guessed this was going to be the name,
0:29:07I mean, I'd retire from blogging. It'd be done. It'd be my crowning achievement.
0:29:11You wouldn't be reached though. #StevenWasHigh. That's what we would have done.
0:29:15Right? Isn't that right?
0:29:17Sure. So let's walk through it a little bit. It's quick. It is mostly under the hood stuff.
0:29:22We have APFS the new file system. The way it started, it didn't start out too good, right? When he come out
0:29:27He's like Sierra was awesome. I'm like, here we go, right? Nothing's happening, right?
0:29:32Like do you remember Sierra like a Sierra run-through? Yeah, I was like, mmm. We're gonna do it again
0:29:37So the new file system
0:29:41You can migrate to that. It's the default on new machines. I
0:29:44Think the couple of big things you have
0:29:48265 support so 4k video better video compression if you're editing video or storing video or really doing anything that's coming across the line
0:29:56It's coming across. Yeah. Yeah
0:29:58But on the Mac is where most people do their editing chose opposed iOS
0:30:01So I think video editors are gonna get a big a big boost there
0:30:05We have metal too. So there have been talk we didn't really cover it
0:30:09We really don't cover this angle of stuff. But you know Vulcan is out there you have potentially like new OpenGL
0:30:15but they're they're doubling down on metal, which is apples I
0:30:18The best way to describe is a framework. It's a deep and open framework for video
0:30:24The graphics I don't even know anymore really annoys me about metal. Hmm. They called the operating system High Sierra
0:30:32They did not call metal heavy metal. Why would you call it like Federighi sets it up?
0:30:37He's like and you know what we called it. I'm like, yeah metal -
0:30:41It's like you went with High Sierra for your operating system and you couldn't come up with anything better than metal -
0:30:48Yeah, the naming is rough this year. It always actually kind of is always rough.
0:30:52Naming is like a crap shoot every time. It is. So with Metal 2 they are bringing AR and
0:30:58VR development to the Mac. So Unreal, the Unreal Engine, a couple others, there's a
0:31:03long list of them. I'm getting a lot of people say to me, like,
0:31:06because I'm excited about this, I keep talking to people, they're like "Oh, but there's no
0:31:09games." I'm like, I don't understand, they're like "Oh, it's just development."
0:31:12Steam, right? Steam VR.
0:31:13VR and support for the two most popular game engines.
0:31:16Yeah.
0:31:17And they're using a HTC Vive and they showed a game development.
0:31:20Like people see the Star Wars demo.
0:31:22Yeah.
0:31:23And they're like, oh, that wasn't a game.
0:31:24It's like, no, but you don't understand.
0:31:26There is no game.
0:31:27It's understandable because gaming on the Mac
0:31:29historically has been a dumpster fire.
0:31:31And maybe it will still be.
0:31:32But it's going to be tough, right?
0:31:33Because the hardware, even because, you know,
0:31:35I've been tweeting about this and people that love PC gaming
0:31:37have been telling me how bad the hardware still is.
0:31:39But it's it's a step.
0:31:41The most important thing is Apple is acknowledging it.
0:31:44- Right.
0:31:45- Even, the only development in VR is video games.
0:31:48That's where it's focused.
0:31:50And having these game, support for these game engines
0:31:53in Metal 2, that is a tacit endorsement of Apple
0:31:57trying to do VR gaming.
0:31:58- So I have this working theory about the max place
0:32:02in the world that as the iPad, especially this year,
0:32:06can do more and more, and I think more and more people
0:32:08are gonna be using it.
0:32:10Apple's gotta find the Mac's place in the market.
0:32:14And I think one of those places
0:32:16will continue to be high-end production.
0:32:18And so even if, Myke, you can't really ever strap on a Vive
0:32:22and hook it up to an iMac and game,
0:32:25Apple wants the Mac to have a place
0:32:27in the production of that stuff.
0:32:29And I think that's really what this is about.
0:32:31They have some eGPU support,
0:32:33so right now that's only a developer thing,
0:32:36so we have a link in the show notes
0:32:37to a developer page about it.
0:32:39but they're equipping the Mac and equipping developers
0:32:42to use the Mac for this stuff.
0:32:44Whether it takes off or not, I mean, no one knows.
0:32:46They have a lot of ground to make up.
0:32:48They have a lot to do in terms of proving they can do it
0:32:51and stay up to date, right?
0:32:52We've talked about this forever.
0:32:54Even with the iPad of like,
0:32:56what are you doing with your upgrade cycle?
0:32:58All that stuff is super important.
0:33:00So they're making baby steps.
0:33:01We had a question from Rick wanting to know
0:33:04if any external Thunderbolt 3 dock
0:33:06could be used with macOS.
0:33:08Right now, the only really thing Apple has said is,
0:33:10in the link in the show notes,
0:33:12there is one by Sonnet that they're supporting
0:33:14only if you're a developer.
0:33:16My assumption is that when High Sierra,
0:33:20High Sierra ships. - Hey Sierra.
0:33:23- Hey, what's up?
0:33:25- High Sierra finally ships,
0:33:27then maybe anyone can go out and buy it.
0:33:29I'm sure there'll be a limited number.
0:33:30It's all very unknown.
0:33:31- It's the coolest thing about it, so I didn't see it,
0:33:32'cause it was really weird, right?
0:33:33Apple did not at any point acknowledge
0:33:35that the HTC Vive was even on the stage of being used.
0:33:38They didn't say it.
0:33:40- On the website, it's unlabeled even.
0:33:42- On the iMac Pro page, they have it sitting there.
0:33:45In this documentation, so for the little,
0:33:47for the external GPU thing,
0:33:49you get a $100 promo credit to a HTC Vive VR headset.
0:33:53Right, so this is the first time in all of Apple's website
0:33:57that I've found mentioned to the Vive.
0:33:58Like they're showing pictures of it,
0:33:59but it's unlabeled and everything, I don't know why.
0:34:02But look, I'm excited about this.
0:34:04There's a lot of question right now, especially with the iMac Pro, like what's the Mac Pro?
0:34:08Well, the Mac Pro might be the machine that is built to play VR games, right?
0:34:13Like that might be what like one of the things that this is hardware can be really focused towards
0:34:18Because you know with gaming with VR gaming it's it's it requires
0:34:22graphics cards to be changed
0:34:25frequently, right like more than every six years.
0:34:29Right and starting in a good place and Apple even with the new iMacs and stuff
0:34:33They're not still there's not top of the line
0:34:35so I my hope my hope now is one of the things that the Mac Pro is for is for VR games and
0:34:40That they will really try and embrace
0:34:43The market of people that will be using this stuff by replacing their graphics cards and stuff frequently
0:34:50But look the thing is even if they don't do the best job. I don't care. I was just getting concerned
0:34:56You have to build a PC. No. Well, yeah, that was one but like just getting concerned for Apple because
0:35:02There are two realms right now where everybody's moving all of their competitors. They're going to VR and they're going to home
0:35:10speakers that you can talk to and
0:35:13It really looked like they were just gonna let VR go and I don't think that was a good idea
0:35:17So I'm pleased to see that they're starting. Yeah, me too. Um
0:35:20We're getting face data and photos sinking again. Like I mean this wasn't the last year it's here this year. It's great
0:35:27Well, I will finally use faces. I have never done it on my
0:35:30- It's a waste of time, it's a literal waste of your time.
0:35:33- Most of the time when I look at photos,
0:35:34I'm on my phone or my iPad, I'm like,
0:35:35oh right, none of this is here.
0:35:36- And then you spend all this time
0:35:37and you get a new phone next year, you start over again.
0:35:39- Yeah.
0:35:40- But there's a deeper theme of Apple sort of letting go
0:35:43and letting people sync a bunch of new information
0:35:46into iCloud.
0:35:46- So I have a theory about this.
0:35:48- So we have--
0:35:49- HealthKit stuff is there.
0:35:50- We have HealthKit, we have activity
0:35:52because it's dependent on EarthKit.
0:35:53- iMessage.
0:35:54- iMessage, we have faces with photos.
0:35:57It's sort of a new direction, I think, for iCloud.
0:35:59- They have a theory which is like in the other,
0:36:01which is the same thing but from the other side.
0:36:03In the last year, they have found a new way
0:36:06to encrypt this stuff that they didn't have before.
0:36:08So it's not that they are making,
0:36:10like that they're taking some shortcuts.
0:36:12- Sure.
0:36:13- Like they landed on something,
0:36:15which is letting them do this.
0:36:16Like, and I'm not saying that you're saying
0:36:17they're being unsecure, right?
0:36:18But you've got to choose one of the two, right?
0:36:20That either like you've led up somewhere
0:36:22or you've found something new.
0:36:23But it's like all of this stuff at once.
0:36:26- Even on principle, it's like the idea of
0:36:28we don't want your data in the cloud.
0:36:30Well, now, even if it's some new encrypted form,
0:36:33you do. - It's still there somewhere.
0:36:35- You love it, you're storing it, so you want it.
0:36:38- It's something changed, right?
0:36:39You're completely right, something's changed.
0:36:41And whatever it is, it all changed at once
0:36:43because a ton of stuff that they should have been doing,
0:36:46it's all happening now.
0:36:47- I mean, I'm happy. - There wasn't a drip free.
0:36:48Yeah, I think it's fantastic.
0:36:49I'm really pleased about all of this stuff.
0:36:51I mean, 'cause this is what we have been asking for
0:36:53since last year, right?
0:36:54Like, especially on this show, we talk about this.
0:36:56Like we just, we will give a little
0:36:58to get the functionality.
0:37:00- I wonder what the people on the other side think now.
0:37:03Oh, Apple should never do that.
0:37:05- I guess, I mean, I won't be able to understand it,
0:37:09but I want someone to go to these security sessions
0:37:12and sum it up.
0:37:13Like, how are they doing this, right?
0:37:14So like last year, what was it?
0:37:15Differential privacy or whatever it's called?
0:37:18Like that was the term that they were using
0:37:20for this thing that they were fact.
0:37:21So I assume there is a new term this year
0:37:24with some other type of security stuff.
0:37:25But I do agree, it's like, even if they're anonymizing
0:37:28all this stuff, it's still there.
0:37:30- It's yours and it's there. - It's still somewhere,
0:37:32which they weren't doing before.
0:37:34- Yeah, it's your data, it's your heart rate data collected
0:37:38over X months, and it's your messages,
0:37:41and it's your photos of faces and information.
0:37:45It's there, I'm happy, but it's definitely a change
0:37:49in even the ideas that they have,
0:37:52that should we be storing users'
0:37:54most private information or not?
0:37:56And the answer now is yes.
0:37:57- 'Cause you know, my assumption is Google anonymizes it.
0:38:01Right? - Sure.
0:38:02- Like they don't tie it to you.
0:38:03- Sure, but-- - So it's like, you know,
0:38:05I wonder what makes Apple different.
0:38:06- There's a breach and you can see the photo of my house
0:38:09and you can see the photo of my kids.
0:38:10- Exactly. - And then you can see
0:38:12what my heart rate looks like.
0:38:13- It's not that anonymous anymore, right?
0:38:15So like what are they doing?
0:38:16I agree, like what's happened?
0:38:18I'm very keen to find that out
0:38:20'cause I think right now we don't really know.
0:38:22all we notice has been a big it's been a big change and it's either in some kind
0:38:26of incredible technology or a policy change. Yeah. So that that's one to really
0:38:31keep an eye on over the next couple of weeks. Speaking of policy change the
0:38:34Mega Poggera got an update. Why did they even mention it on stage? It's completely pointless.
0:38:38200 megahertz faster. I mean 200 is a lot. It's still megahertz.
0:38:44Yeah like mega is big right? Mega means big. I mean in the Pokemon world mega is
0:38:48Mega Revolutions are like it's a big deal.
0:38:51Yeah.
0:38:52So this is a Mega Revolution.
0:38:53You got 200 of them!
0:38:54Yeah, 200 Mega Revolutions?
0:38:55I could be the Elite Four with that.
0:38:57You know I could be the Pokemon champion with 200 Megas?
0:39:00Do you know these words that we're using?
0:39:02So it's still Broadwell.
0:39:06Still quite sad.
0:39:07But why are you sad about this?
0:39:09I mean, if you're going to update the Mega Reverberate, update it.
0:39:12What they've done is they've moved it to the chips that they can use.
0:39:15Yeah.
0:39:16They obviously just couldn't get the chips anymore.
0:39:17I'm sure that's all it is. The MacBook and the MacBook Pros are now Kaby Lake.
0:39:22Kaby Lake sounds like a Pokemon. It has... Kaby Lake includes, I believe, I'm
0:39:29sure all of ATP will correct me if I'm wrong, H.265 support, hardware
0:39:33accelerated, which is nice. Still capped at 16 gigs of RAM, so those who are...
0:39:38Oh really? I wonder about that. There's no 32, so those who wanted that, you gotta keep waiting.
0:39:43I was just waiting for an iMac Pro, I think you can get like a thousand.
0:39:45Yeah. Is that right?
0:39:46Yeah. It's a mega ram.
0:39:48A thousand ram.
0:39:49Mega ram.
0:39:49Mega ram.
0:39:49One mega ram.
0:39:50One mega ram.
0:39:52Mega ram sounds like a fun one.
0:39:54[laughter]
0:39:57iMacs.
0:39:58Never again.
0:39:58So the regular iMacs are all Kaby Lake as well. They have Thunderbolt 3. They kept USB-A on the
0:40:04back. So this Mac, I have a MacBook Pro in my lap that is increasingly warm as we keep recording
0:40:09onto it.
0:40:09That's a feature.
0:40:10It is. It's just USB-C Thunderbolt 3. The iMac kept the USB-A ports, it kept the SD card slot.
0:40:18Because there's just no argument.
0:40:19Which infuriates me that it's now the MacBook Pro.
0:40:21Alright, but the thing is, your argument, right?
0:40:24I have plenty of room!
0:40:25The argument now says there isn't.
0:40:26Oh, you know what it's inside. Maybe there's no space inside.
0:40:30The argument is that there's no space inside, it's too thin. You want the thinness,
0:40:33you want a little screen on top of your keyboard, which I know you really want,
0:40:35your little touch bar, you gotta get rid of your SD card slot. But there's no excuse on the iMac,
0:40:39right?
0:40:40Yeah, if they'd gotten rid of it, they'd have been rioting.
0:40:41There's no excuse, so they can't do it. You know they want to.
0:40:43It even has Ethernet still. So I have...
0:40:45Yeah, especially the Ethernet. You know they want to get rid of it, right?
0:40:48So next year, the iMac is like, I don't know, the size of a postage stamp.
0:40:52Well, the iMac Pro even has like, faster...
0:40:54It's got like 10 gig Ethernet. Mega Ethernet.
0:40:58MegaNet.
0:40:59MegaNet.
0:41:00You get hooked into the MegaNet.
0:41:01Mega RAM and MegaNet.
0:41:03They're like the two different evolutions you can see.
0:41:06You could take a different path, depending on the response.
0:41:07You know, this show was really taking a turn, I wasn't expecting today.
0:41:10This was how my own Federico's video game podcast was born.
0:41:13Similar kind of thing, I wonder what happens next.
0:41:15You forced me out.
0:41:16There was a Pokemon Nintendo Direct this morning.
0:41:18Oh yeah, what happened?
0:41:19Nah, it wasn't my turn.
0:41:20Nah, it wasn't my turn.
0:41:21You were like, "Yeah, I'm gonna get up and dodge it."
0:41:22Like, "No, I really don't got the decision."
0:41:26It wasn't what we wanted.
0:41:27So the big Mac hardware news, of course, is the iMac Pro.
0:41:32Did you say the Mac Pro?
0:41:33I said iMac Pro.
0:41:34I think it's a Mac Pro though, right?
0:41:35It is basically a Mac Pro.
0:41:36I think you said I comma Mac Pro. You're the Mac Pro? Yes. It's like I robot. They've been working really hard on Steven for the last two years
0:41:44He's ready to ship
0:41:46Congratulations to all the employees. Why are you all so mean to me today?
0:41:49So
0:41:53The the stats are ridiculous. It's insane. Up to 18 core
0:41:57up to
0:42:00128 gigs of EEC RAM so that error correction protection. What does it mean? John
0:42:03correction, protection. What does it mean? John Sierak used to really like that Ram.
0:42:06He says it's good. It's the good Ram? It's like the good wine. So that's the seasoned Ram?
0:42:11Yeah, seasoned. It comes from good vineyards. Seasoned in a barrel. From good Ramyards?
0:42:17Yeah, it's really important. In High Sierra. It pairs nicely with grilled chicken.
0:42:23So that's the good Ram? Yeah, that's the good Ram. What else? How many mega net and mega ram do we have here?
0:42:31up to four terabytes of SSD. It's space gray. That's all you really need to know about it.
0:42:35It's real pretty.
0:42:36It is real. Yeah. So you saw it. It looks like Darth Vader's iMac, right?
0:42:40Yeah. Darth Vader is the Star Trek.
0:42:42Jar Jar Binks' dad.
0:42:45He's from Guardians of the Galaxy.
0:42:46That's the one with the parts and recreation guy. I know that.
0:42:50Is he? I'm sorry.
0:42:51My favorite thing about the iMac is that they made the peripherals black.
0:42:58What is the show?
0:42:59Yes.
0:42:59The peripheral. And why?
0:43:01And you can't.
0:43:02OK, so I have many things to say about because that's just who I am.
0:43:05If you're going to put a touch bar on an external Mac keyboard,
0:43:08it's this external Mac keyboard. No touch bar.
0:43:11Because you could if you said like this is the computer that needs a Y
0:43:14or two keyboard, right?
0:43:16Everyone goes, OK, because that's the type of person that does.
0:43:19No, but you know what, though?
0:43:20The same person doesn't want it.
0:43:22Maybe. Right.
0:43:23Because like people who want the iMac Pro don't want the touch bar.
0:43:26Yeah, I feel reminded of it. Yeah.
0:43:28So there's that.
0:43:30It starts at five grand. So I think what happened here, I think this machine was the Mac Pro
0:43:37replacement. Without a doubt.
0:43:38And then whatever happened in the fall or the end of the year before that round table
0:43:42like, "Oh shoot, we need to make a Mac Pro. We already have this iMac Pro. We have to
0:43:47ship it. It's done."
0:43:48What do we do with this now?
0:43:51Make it black.
0:43:52Just dip it in space grey.
0:43:54You know, I gotta add a number pad.
0:43:57What is that all about?
0:43:58Pros love numbers.
0:44:00People like number pads.
0:44:02Can you buy it without it?
0:44:04You can't show it to a store and buy the black stuff.
0:44:06It only comes with the iMac Pro.
0:44:08That's cool though. I like that.
0:44:10It's just going to be a pain for me in 30 years.
0:44:12This thing really reminds me of the Tam.
0:44:14Oh yeah.
0:44:16It's going to look really good on my desk next to my Tam.
0:44:18So I have a question for you.
0:44:20The second question is are you going to buy one?
0:44:22But don't answer that question yet.
0:44:24Okay.
0:44:26you tell me why does the Mac Pro need to exist? That's the question and the iMac
0:44:34Pro pushes the Mac Pro really far upstream like God only knows what the
0:44:40Mac Pro is gonna cost now if this starts at five grand. Things that
0:44:45I would want to see in a Mac Pro better than this would be
0:44:49multi processor support so more than one actual CPU. All right so help me with
0:44:54this right yes so when it says it has like 18 cores it's one chip it is so you
0:44:59would have like two 18 core chips they run they work together yes and in
0:45:04parallel with each other so it seems really true with all those chips and
0:45:07core VR create VR stuff I wonder things not me so if you're dealing in like
0:45:13video and audio the more the more the merrier the faster things render like
0:45:18it's you know if you think about that how long it took to render your concert
0:45:21video, the way you fix that is with more cores.
0:45:24OK.
0:45:25Just put more stuff in.
0:45:26That's why it's a pro stuff.
0:45:27Because when you get to these incredibly intensive tasks,
0:45:30it's--
0:45:31Stephen, please allow me to say this--
0:45:33it's like having multiple machines.
0:45:35Because all this stuff's working together.
0:45:37You're multiplying the amount of processor
0:45:40that you can have.
0:45:41Stephen, help me.
0:45:42Please help me.
0:45:44Yeah, it's more parallel instructions, more lanes
0:45:47to do stuff in.
0:45:48So it's sharing the tasks.
0:45:51So I think more than one CPU socket,
0:45:53things like interchangeable GPUs.
0:45:57So assuming the card slot idea is coming back,
0:46:01which if Apple is serious about this,
0:46:02and I think they are,
0:46:03I think this proves they're serious about this stuff.
0:46:04- I think the fact that they made this iMac the way it is
0:46:06means that the Mac Pro is just gonna be a bunch of sockets.
0:46:10- Yeah.
0:46:10- It has to be, right?
0:46:11- So swapping in GPUs more than one GPU,
0:46:14putting in other types of cards.
0:46:15So what a lot of, there are a lot of tower,
0:46:17the cheese grater Mac Pro is still around
0:46:19people use audio and video capture cards in them and or RAID cards and that stuff
0:46:24I think could come back. User swappable RAM. So the RAM and this I have gotten
0:46:31this confirmed now the RAM and the iMac Pro is not soldered to the board it's in
0:46:35regular slots but you can't get to it because the iMac the iMacs are sealed
0:46:40shut. As it should be because that's the thing I feel like you put your hand in it
0:46:43will bite you. Oh yeah it looks mean but so I have you and I have the same iMac
0:46:48We have the 27 inch 5k iMac.
0:46:50That's a little RAM drawer on the back and I can put more RAM. So mine's at 32 gigs or whatever the max is.
0:46:54You can't do that here. A Mac Pro would have to have that.
0:46:58What's the maximum amount of RAM this thing can take? The iMac Pro can take 128. That's a lot of RAM.
0:47:03That's all the RAM. That's like it. It's all of it. That's more than you need, right? Yeah.
0:47:07That's more than... More for what we need. Again, if you're doing
0:47:09VR development or your Pixar, yes, it's kind of the same thing the more the merrier, but for people, you know,
0:47:17we're professional users but we're not like hardcore professional users. I don't need that.
0:47:21Right because the amount of time that things take to happen for me like it's
0:47:25time that you can wait. Right and for the stuff that you do and I do CPU is
0:47:29more important. So the question is who is this machine for? I think it's for people
0:47:36like us or people like full-time video editors people who you know want more
0:47:41but don't necessarily need the horsepower is important to them the the
0:47:46the raw power of the thing, but not necessarily the expandability, if that makes sense.
0:47:51And I think there's a band of users in there, I don't know how big it is, what this does do is whatever pro hardware market they had,
0:47:57they've now split between two machines, but...
0:48:00How did they make this, right? Because they haven't changed the physical size of the case.
0:48:04Which I'm a little worried about.
0:48:06I can't, I don't, why didn't they just make it a little bit thicker?
0:48:08I wish it was thicker.
0:48:10Why'd they make it so hard on them?
0:48:12Well yeah, I'm afraid it's like a Mac Pro situation, like we made this cool thing and we can't ever update it.
0:48:15So it was at ATP last night, right? And John Syracuse is like, talk about a thermal corner.
0:48:19You've just made another one. That's a risk, right? They're doing it again. Like the Mac Pro failed because they were too ambitious.
0:48:26Right. I feel like they're being too ambitious again. So this thing has a
0:48:30like new intake so the photos of it is like this huge intake on the back of it.
0:48:35I loved it. That was like the first detail that they showed in the video. Yeah. It was like all these exhaust holes. Yeah.
0:48:40Yeah, and they're moving like 80% more air than in the 5k iMac. So we'll see how it goes
0:48:45You know, it's just I just find it really weird that they didn't make it a little bit bigger because like that back plate, right?
0:48:51So that's not a standard part anymore because they've had to pull these holes in it
0:48:56So it's not like it was a case of it saves money because we use the same parts
0:49:00No, so I get a guy with a drill
0:49:02He just walks along the line. Just get it in there. Yeah, that's how that's how manufacturing
0:49:08I think that's how it works.
0:49:09- It's a guy with a battery powered car.
0:49:10- They just get one of those little robots.
0:49:11But like, this is like,
0:49:14can't innovate anymore, right?
0:49:16Like it's that thing again.
0:49:18This is a very impressive piece of hardware engineering.
0:49:23I'm just worried that they've backed themselves
0:49:25into a situation again. - We do.
0:49:26- That they're gonna struggle to get back out of.
0:49:28I really hope that when the development
0:49:32of this machine started,
0:49:33they knew the Mac Pro was suffering, right?
0:49:36So like they knew why that yeah. Yeah, but like this thing, I mean, it looks incredible. Are you interested in it?
0:49:43I am interested in it. So I'm really happy with my 5k iMac
0:49:46I think I've got several more years where it's gonna meet my needs
0:49:49But I think at the point where it doesn't I would look at iMac Pro versus a Mac Pro and see what makes sense for me
0:49:55At this point if they were both, you know, say the Mac Pro I just described with modularity that that's out and this is out
0:50:02I really like the all-in-one design
0:50:05I like that it's clean and easy to set up. I don't necessarily it takes one space on yes
0:50:10I'm not gaming so I'm not as interested in changing out GPUs, you know over the course of life of a machine
0:50:16So but I think on all Apple is giving pro Mac users options
0:50:20And I think that's what we wanted and I think that's what they're they're slowly doing I would only look at this
0:50:25Seriously, like if there was a really good VR game like a really good VR story to tell it like it could handle it
0:50:32it looks like
0:50:34It would be a bad decision to go for this machine
0:50:36Because it seems like it's a little underpowered now compared to what's happening in the PC world
0:50:41So you would buy it now and have it for five years and by that time you can't open it
0:50:46Yeah
0:50:46I mean I think and I think for my use it
0:50:49Probably makes sense to wait for a Mac Pro like because if the if the Mac Pro really does what I want it to do
0:50:54Which is that I can put some?
0:50:56Some good stuff in there for VR games like that's what I want
0:50:59Because I've been thinking recently about buying a PC because I want to play an Oculus
0:51:04or a Vive.
0:51:05I want the top tier of VR gaming and you just can't do it with anything that's on the market
0:51:11from Apple right now.
0:51:12I mean, you kind of still can't even with this thing.
0:51:16All of this today feels like a tacit endorsement of the fact that the Mac Pro will be focused
0:51:25partly towards VR gaming.
0:51:27I think so.
0:51:28released this iMac Pro with all the same guts without a screen on it that like
0:51:33what are you doing? So I hope that they're gonna take the really high
0:51:36ground. Yeah. So yeah so that's I think that's the Mac stuff. And for all in all
0:51:41in a year where the iPad which we're gonna talk about had so much attention
0:51:44and so much great stuff happen like they did well with the Mac too. You know I
0:51:49felt like it was pretty balanced in that regard that they're moving both of their
0:51:51computing platforms forward. You know maybe tvOS paid the price but who cares.
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0:53:44- So we also saw the introduction,
0:53:47it's not really a tease,
0:53:48like a full introduction of the home pod.
0:53:52Hmm. Home pod. Home pod. I don't like it. Doesn't,
0:53:56it doesn't doesn't roll off the tongue very well. Home pod.
0:53:59Can you speak to the home pod? Home pod.
0:54:02If it was called the poem hard, that would be way better.
0:54:05But it doesn't make any sense. Poem hard.
0:54:07Like if you just swap the P and the H around.
0:54:08Just like Siri home. But so, yeah. So
0:54:11I've been speaker the size of a bottle of water. It's like the size of an,
0:54:16It's like as tall as a 7+ or something?
0:54:18No, it's actually...
0:54:19It looks very small.
0:54:20No, it's not.
0:54:21It's actually taller and chunkier than it looks from the photos.
0:54:25It's more like... my guess...
0:54:27I mean, I haven't actually measured with tape, but I think it's...
0:54:31Oh, get on it!
0:54:32I'm sorry!
0:54:33You were in the hands-on area!
0:54:34I'm sorry!
0:54:35I think it's actually a little taller and a little fatter than the Sonos Play One.
0:54:41Yeah, the One's like the cylinder type deal.
0:54:44It's chunkier.
0:54:45So it's got a little...
0:54:46It's got a little action going on.
0:54:50It has a bunch of speakers in it. It's hooked up. Seven tweeters.
0:54:59Which is not like Twitter. It's seven tweeters. I mean, one is enough of Twitter.
0:55:04And one Apple designed woofer.
0:55:07Why are these words so silly? I don't know.
0:55:11Because each of you have had way too much coffee. They are silly words. It is very much geared towards
0:55:17Music. I think it's why pod is in the name
0:55:20Yeah, they're bringing that brand back. Yeah, right. They're bringing the pod brand. So it's it's like
0:55:25Pod brand. It's like one with Apple music. Yeah, it's all built into Apple music
0:55:32Most of the voice control stuff is around the music. This is very much a music product. I said it on clockwise earlier
0:55:39Apple always says that music's like really close to the heart of the company
0:55:42companies don't have hearts, but it is important to them and
0:55:46You always always get the sense like they're passionate about the music products that they get to introduce. Yeah
0:55:53I'm wondering about this like
0:55:56Did they want to make a music speaker or did they want to make a serious speaker but couldn't and then they made it music speaker?
0:56:02My idea is they maybe wanted to make a serious speaker, but they didn't serious not good enough
0:56:08Siri is not good enough.
0:56:09- I don't mean like Siri the service, Siri kit.
0:56:12- Yeah.
0:56:13- Siri kit is not advanced enough.
0:56:14- Siri kit is not as flexible or as open
0:56:17as they would like them to be.
0:56:18So they went with a different angle.
0:56:21Let's sell the music aspect, which is ready to go.
0:56:24It's got Apple music.
0:56:25We've got millions of subscribers.
0:56:26Everybody's happy.
0:56:27- They've got a musicologist.
0:56:28- It's a musicologist, which is a very fun word to say.
0:56:32- Better than HomePod.
0:56:34- HomePod, hey, can you talk to musicologists?
0:56:37- Yeah, it's kind of cool.
0:56:38So it's an easier sell.
0:56:40Also, most people, I guess, in Apple's mind,
0:56:42relate to the idea of playing music,
0:56:45even though the success of the Echo
0:56:46kind of tells another story.
0:56:48Like, people seem to be acquainted with the idea
0:56:50of having that lady in the tube in the kitchen
0:56:53or the living room.
0:56:54- Here's the thing though, right?
0:56:54I play music on the Echo,
0:56:56and I don't know what everyone's problem is.
0:56:59- It's not great, but it's fine.
0:57:00- It's fine.
0:57:01- But you know where I also play music?
0:57:02On the speaker of my iPhone.
0:57:04- Yeah.
0:57:04- Right, like the Echo is vastly superior to that.
0:57:06The bar is really pretty low in my household.
0:57:09I don't have a son- since it's one, I'm not particularly enthused by this product because
0:57:14it is fulfilling a desire that I don't have.
0:57:17Which is to have a device that plays music.
0:57:19I love music, but I don't play it in there.
0:57:22I don't just have music on in the house, it's not something that I ever do.
0:57:27I have it in my ears.
0:57:28Like so when I'm doing something or going somewhere, like there's very rarely music
0:57:33on.
0:57:34made a product that played music that you could just put in your ear. What would you
0:57:39call that? You would call it a home ear. An ear pod. No, they already made that. Head
0:57:52pod. A head pod. There you go. That's going to be their VR goggles. I think the easiest
0:57:59- There's a way to describe this.
0:58:00It's a Sonos with Siri.
0:58:04- Yeah, and it's with, so let's talk about the Siri thing.
0:58:07It is not, this is not what some of us wanted
0:58:12or what people were expecting
0:58:13to be a direct Echo competitor.
0:58:15It's a really, it's a Sonos competitor
0:58:17that does like some Siri stuff.
0:58:19- Yeah, like it doesn't even have all of the things
0:58:22the iPhone can do.
0:58:23- Right, it's very limited, it's very,
0:58:25you know, Siri has domains of knowledge,
0:58:27it's very limited domains.
0:58:28There's no SDK. And there's no SDK for it, which to your point earlier, four hours ago in the show,
0:58:34maybe not everything needs an app store. My guess is that if this takes off, then maybe we'll see
0:58:40SiriKit stuff come to it at some point in the future. But I think right now,
0:58:43they know that their strength is in making a really good music thing, and controlling with your voice is nice, and
0:58:50kind of go from there, as opposed to trying to take on both Sonos and
0:58:55and Amazon, whose products they put on a slide next to each other, which is incredible, take
0:59:00them on kind of one at a time and not both at once.
0:59:03The problem with the SDK, and I think I mentioned this last time, is that Apple is relying on
0:59:08apps being on your phone to use all these extensions. Because the way that Apple structured
0:59:16the App Store, you cannot have a skill that lives in the cloud. And so I bet the reason
0:59:20why we don't have an SDK now is that Apple has iCloud in place and Apple Music, the web
0:59:25service in place, they're not ready to tell developers you should provide a web service
0:59:30that allows people to use the speaker even if your iPhone, which is the direct controller
0:59:36for the speaker is not at home. So what happens if I set up my HomePod with my iPhone and
0:59:44I got my integrations because my iPhone has overcast and things and Todoist, all these
0:59:50different apps, so when I'm home, the HomePod can talk to my iPhone. Then I go to WWDC.
0:59:56Sylvia is at home, the HomePod loses what? The entire third-party integrations? So the big problem
1:00:04here is either you install apps on the HomePod, so the stuff is all local and it uses the CPU that
1:00:11they have, or every single skill, every single circuit domain becomes something in the cloud
1:00:19that doesn't require any device, doesn't require any local installation, and every member of the family can talk to it.
1:00:24I don't know.
1:00:27This just isn't a product that I want.
1:00:29It just seems easier the way that Amazon is doing. Like, you go to a website, you sign up, there's a skill,
1:00:37everybody can use it. Whether it's Myke, Adina, Sylvia for the vehicle, everybody can use it.
1:00:43You don't need to account for who's at home now.
1:00:46So Apple went with the opposite direction, which is also the easiest solution.
1:00:50We're just not going to do it now, which there's no SDK,
1:00:53which leads to my biggest question and it being part of this keynote.
1:00:56So I wrote a thing earlier this week or last week sometime like
1:00:59if they're going to announce it now, but it ships later in the year.
1:01:03My thought was they would do that because the developers write stuff for it.
1:01:07But developers aren't writing anything for this.
1:01:10That's a really good point. Why did they do this?
1:01:12Why in the world was it not in the September?
1:01:15why is it not in the September event with the iPhone?
1:01:17Yeah, I don't know. Because if the idea was we want people to see this,
1:01:22put it with the iPhone. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't make any sense.
1:01:25In a keynote that was so packed, why did this make the cut?
1:01:30Because developers can't touch it. Yeah. So is it, is it that,
1:01:34you know, they don't want it to leak? Maybe, maybe that's what it is.
1:01:37Is it that there's, there's so much talk of them doing something,
1:01:41they felt like they had to address it?
1:01:42Yeah, maybe because sometimes... In which case do a Mac Pro teaser can't innovate anymore and then show it in September.
1:01:47It just seems very weird that I got so much stage time. I'm not complaining. I think it's a nice product. I'm with you
1:01:52I'm not sure I'm gonna buy one, but it felt it felt like the the odd product out in this keynote.
1:01:56I feel like they almost had a feeling of
1:01:59We've been
1:02:01Getting all this, you know this criticism of we're not doing this and we're not doing that
1:02:07so we'll just make a keynote where nobody can complain and
1:02:11The side effect is now they can they get to almost develop this stuff in the open because everybody knows they're doing a speaker now
1:02:18So they're more free to approach third parties or whatever and they can do things like we want to make an SDK
1:02:24And it's no big secret because we everybody knows we're doing a speaker
1:02:27And so I feel like there's almost a sentiment of we're just gonna have it to our keynote
1:02:32And we're gonna show you everything even if you don't have an SDK or the IMAX are not shipping, but whatever
1:02:37We just don't want to hear your complaints anymore
1:02:40That's not wrong and it's not a bad it's not a okay because the thing is right the situation we were all different
1:02:47Let's say like the home part. I'm like, it looks nice
1:02:50I just don't want it and that's not a criticism against Apple like I don't have to own everything they make right what?
1:02:57But if they didn't show it today this whole show we'd be talking about the fact that Apple is now behind like what are they?
1:03:03Doing yes, I speaker so like it's just from a PR perspective
1:03:06Show your cards. Just show it. Right.
1:03:08Because it's like some people are going to really like this.
1:03:10Some people are not.
1:03:11And the fact that I mean, funnily enough, the fact that there isn't an app store
1:03:14for it means that it's kind of less of a focus in that way,
1:03:18because it's just like if they were if it was an app store. Right.
1:03:20It's a platform.
1:03:22They've unveiled a new platform.
1:03:24You got a new platform.
1:03:25Then you've got a lot riding on it.
1:03:27This is almost like even less important than the Apple TV,
1:03:30because it's just a box that plays Apple Music.
1:03:33Right. That you can ask maybe the weather.
1:03:36It's not a musicologist.
1:03:38So you know what I mean? It just feels like it's less stakes, which means that they can show it off today and it not be maybe everything that show all people, but it's less table stakes.
1:03:49Yeah, so I think it would do well for people who want this sort of thing. For people who aren't interested in an echo, maybe for privacy reasons, maybe they want something that's going to be in the Apple ecosystem, like I think it will do well.
1:04:02349 makes it competitive with stuff like the Sonos. It's interesting to remember that Sonos
1:04:08is the only third-party service that has Apple Music in it. Apple and Sonos clearly are partners
1:04:12at some point and now they're gunning for them on their WWDC keynote slide deck.
1:04:17I mean they're selling Sonos in the Apple stores.
1:04:19For now.
1:04:20For now.
1:04:21I wonder if it goes away.
1:04:22Oh that stops now. Right, that's stopping. There's no way that December comes that you'll
1:04:26be able to go in and buy. They're gonna want to start getting rid of Bluetooth speakers.
1:04:31Yeah, this feels like like an
1:04:33Listen to me like a some kind of betrayal like hey. Yeah, we'll have you in the Apple store
1:04:39Yeah, well the Apple music integration
1:04:41Yes, I mean when we make a deal with a company the size of Apple you got to be prepared
1:04:45But isn't some of us working with Amazon
1:04:47Yes, that's it. Yeah, so maybe they've shifted or the landscape has changed clearly
1:04:52There's tension between Apple and Amazon in the past so we start the countdown clock on Sonos I
1:04:57I kind of feel like it's time.
1:04:59It does feel like, uh, it does feel like, uh, you know, the, the, the assassination
1:05:04of Caesar in the, in the Roman times at 2 brutal.
1:05:07Yeah.
1:05:08It feels like a new apple.
1:05:10That's heavy.
1:05:11Yes, quite.
1:05:12A2 apple.
1:05:13A2 apple.
1:05:14Eddy Cue stabbed you in the back.
1:05:19So yeah.
1:05:20I don't know.
1:05:21It's like, it's fine.
1:05:22Sure.
1:05:23I agree with you.
1:05:24partially because for streaming music we're a Spotify family. We have Spotify hooked up to the Echo.
1:05:29It's great. And we listen to a lot of podcasts. And now this, they announced AirPlay 2. It's very hand-wavy at this point.
1:05:37If you can AirPlay from this to another device or to it, or has Bluetooth support, no one really knows yet.
1:05:43But I don't, as a non-Apple Music subscriber, that's a big ding on this right off the bat.
1:05:49Question for both of you, you both pre-ordered an Echo show.
1:05:52We did.
1:05:53Is it a stay?
1:05:54Yeah.
1:05:55I think so.
1:05:56Yeah, I'm not cancelling my pre-order.
1:05:57I mean, also we should say it's coming out in December in the US, UK and Australia.
1:06:02Australia.
1:06:03Yeah, but I mean Echo show's not coming out in Italy, but you're still getting one.
1:06:07Yeah, but John is shipping you one.
1:06:09I know, I'm just saying like a similar deal, but like...
1:06:11Yeah, but I get it now.
1:06:13I want my toys now.
1:06:14Yeah.
1:06:15I don't want to wait.
1:06:16Six months.
1:06:17No, no, no.
1:06:18We're talking across the street.
1:06:19I got it. I want to play with it. So I want to get it.
1:06:23I'm still... I still don't think I want to...
1:06:26Like, the Echo Show doesn't appeal to me. Like, I just...
1:06:29I got it mostly to see what it's like for the show.
1:06:32Whether it sticks around or not is a big question.
1:06:35I just don't know if I need it.
1:06:36I'm not canceling my pre-order.
1:06:38I have so many screens in my house.
1:06:39That's what my wife... You know, I think we talked about this.
1:06:41That's what Mary says. She doesn't want a screen in the kitchen.
1:06:44She likes that the Echo is just background.
1:06:47I really just don't think it's necessary.
1:06:48for me, like I just don't think it's a necessary feature, but I'm willing to see
1:06:52I mean, you know, this was kind of how I felt about the Echo in the first place.
1:06:56So I'm I'm I'm keeping an open mind.
1:06:58And this comes on the hill of Phil Schiller
1:07:01throwing shade at these devices that don't have screens.
1:07:03And then he released one that doesn't have a screen.
1:07:05And so I could see a path in the future that Apple had.
1:07:09I hadn't thought that Apple adds a screen to the home pod.
1:07:12It becomes the TV pod screen pod.
1:07:15Display pod, I'm running out of pods.
1:07:18that's when SiriKit comes to it and that it's like this whole thing but yeah it's
1:07:23all very strange I like they're doing a music thing that's really mad you know I
1:07:28agree with you it's probably not for me so that is home pod that's home pod so
1:07:36we're going to talk about iOS 11 and of course the iPad I thought we'd over iOS
1:07:3911 itself first and stuff that's coming to both the phone and the iPad and the
1:07:45iPod touch, remember that thing? And then we'll take a break and we'll talk about the
1:07:49iPad stuff.
1:07:50Alright, Apple Music everywhere. Right? Everything looks like Apple Music.
1:07:53Yeah, so new design, bold text, it's really clean. I'm a fan.
1:08:00Bold text, big artwork.
1:08:03Big artwork and big title bars. Like, they look empty. And I wonder, I'm gonna say now,
1:08:09If that empty space is for the camera cutout.
1:08:14They just look so empty man.
1:08:15It's like when you open messages there's like this, some extra space for the title, but
1:08:21it seems useless.
1:08:22And it seems tight.
1:08:23I saw a screenshot of iOS 11 running on iPhone SE and it's all really cramped.
1:08:29You just see the title of the app.
1:08:31Yeah, that's all it is.
1:08:32There's messages and it wraps like four lines.
1:08:34Yes, this is messages.
1:08:36Welcome.
1:08:37Thank you.
1:08:38lot of scrolling. The App Store looks like Apple Music Now. There's a big push on
1:08:44editorial content. So there is an app of the day, there's a game of the day, and
1:08:48then there's app lists. And so right now if you're featured on the App Store you
1:08:52want a 40 in a collection, right? Or you're in that rotating banner at the
1:08:56top of five or six. Now if you're the app of the day you are quite literally
1:09:01front and center on the App Store. Yeah those lists still exist on the
1:09:05individual apps and games tab,
1:09:07but they have this like overall big one
1:09:09where they can make some big feature.
1:09:11- That's a big promise from Apple.
1:09:13- It's a huge, that's a big undertaking.
1:09:15- We're gonna have stories,
1:09:16we're gonna have interviews with developers,
1:09:17we're gonna have tips and tricks,
1:09:18we're gonna have videos.
1:09:19It's a lot of content to create.
1:09:21And I mean, I guess during the beta process,
1:09:24we won't see the daily stuff.
1:09:25I will assume we will get like a handful of those
1:09:28just as a test, but then when September comes
1:09:30and this stuff launches, you gotta keep up with this,
1:09:33you know, whether it's new apps or new games,
1:09:35maybe you want to put the spotlight on older titles.
1:09:38But it's still a lot of content to create on a daily basis
1:09:40and to put it on the front page
1:09:41to make sure it rolls out internationally.
1:09:44I mean, the App Store,
1:09:45if you look at the Italian App Store at least,
1:09:47you know, there's not a lot of curation going on.
1:09:51So I wonder if this is--
1:09:52- Blah, blah, blah, every day.
1:09:54- Yeah, I mean, we're just gonna--
1:09:55- Oh, blah, blah, all the time.
1:09:56- Oh, blah, blah, all the time.
1:09:58And I just wonder, can you do this on a regular basis?
1:10:01I mean, sure, if you've got the people,
1:10:03Apps are coming out all the time, so that's no problem.
1:10:06Games are coming out and that's no problem.
1:10:09But you gotta write the content.
1:10:10- That's a big team.
1:10:11- You gotta write the content.
1:10:13You gotta come up with all the things that you've shown.
1:10:16That said, it looks fantastic.
1:10:18So.
1:10:19- Monument Valley, man.
1:10:20- Yeah.
1:10:20- What a surprise.
1:10:21- What a surprise, right?
1:10:22- I bought it in your hotel room during the keynote.
1:10:25- I'm saving it for the plane ride, huh?
1:10:26- Yeah, me too.
1:10:27- Does it matter the location why you bought it?
1:10:29Where did you buy it?
1:10:31- I bought it in the hotel room.
1:10:32So I guess I gotta buy it.
1:10:33- You gotta buy it.
1:10:34We're boring our hotel room, so you gotta buy it too.
1:10:37- I bought it laying in your bed.
1:10:38- I'll do that.
1:10:39- Just quick. - My bad?
1:10:40- How much money?
1:10:42How much money?
1:10:43How big is the check that Apple wrote?
1:10:44- Mega millions.
1:10:45- It's gotta be huge, right?
1:10:47- Mega dollars.
1:10:47- 'Cause they said it's exclusive to the App Store,
1:10:49didn't they?
1:10:50And like, do you remember that picture of Tim Cook
1:10:52with the US2 team?
1:10:53- Yeah.
1:10:54- Like, this is--
1:10:56- This is the game that was featured on House of Cards.
1:10:57I mean, they've had a lot of high profile.
1:10:59- I'm not 100% sure why they have done this
1:11:02and why they made it a thing of the keynote,
1:11:05but I'm really excited about it.
1:11:07- It was, I think, a reminder that the app store,
1:11:10the iOS app store still has a level up
1:11:13on the Google Play Store.
1:11:15And Apple can still demand these exclusives.
1:11:17- Yeah, especially to the developer audience, right?
1:11:19Like the people sitting in that room.
1:11:20- Hey, you go iOS first or iOS only,
1:11:24maybe we'll be here for you.
1:11:25- I'm wondering if this is gonna turn
1:11:27into console platforms, so E3 is next week.
1:11:30like the big thing is like what exclusives can Microsoft sign and I'm
1:11:34wondering like you know these companies have got huge checkbooks why not write
1:11:37some exclusives that sign some checks. I think that's what they did here and it's that's
1:11:42really intriguing to me to do more of this. Yeah so we see Apple pay peer-to-peer
1:11:47in messages. I love it I just love it. So the three of us go out to dinner I pay and you
1:11:52guys want to pay me back your segments you can you can message me money and
1:11:57And it can go onto an Apple Cash card.
1:11:59So you spoke about this on upgrade.
1:12:02Maybe we'll dig that episode out
1:12:04because it's really, it's a good conversation
1:12:06about how these things work.
1:12:08So Myke, you used to work in finance briefly
1:12:11and so in a way that we can understand it as regular humans,
1:12:14how do these cards work?
1:12:15- All right, so what Apple I believe is doing here
1:12:19is they are working with a card provider, probably Visa,
1:12:24to create a list of prepaid cards.
1:12:29So these are cards that you can load up with cash and spend.
1:12:33Like, so you can get these now.
1:12:35You get these plastic cards.
1:12:36There's a bank in the UK called Mondo that is like this.
1:12:39And you can get them like when you go traveling and stuff.
1:12:42You can get like foreign currency on these cards.
1:12:45So for all intents and purposes, they appear to be cards.
1:12:47They just have a balance limit on them.
1:12:49So I think what Apple is doing is generating with Visa
1:12:52a bunch of these cards that there's no actual physical card for,
1:12:55but it has everything it needs. It has a number, it has an expiry date,
1:12:58and that's all loaded into Apple Pay. All users get those.
1:13:01And then it just looks like a card.
1:13:04It looks like a card when you pay in stores.
1:13:06It looks like a card when you make transfers to people.
1:13:09It's basically just a virtual debit card is what it is.
1:13:12The thing that I'm interested to see is will Apple now enable these
1:13:17purchases in the app store? Because that's when it gets really interesting.
1:13:21This is when Apple is basically a bank at this point.
1:13:24This is a big trend right now in 2017.
1:13:27Companies want to be banks.
1:13:29Because the thing that Apple get to do here is,
1:13:32let's say you start transferring this money to me
1:13:33and I've got some you've sent to me,
1:13:35Steven sent some to me.
1:13:37I'm gonna keep it around,
1:13:38maybe I'll use it in the app store.
1:13:39Apple's making money on that money.
1:13:41It's sitting there making interest money, right?
1:13:43So Apple is now holding all this cash.
1:13:45- Oh God, how does money make money?
1:13:47- They can invest it,
1:13:49and they can also make interest on it.
1:13:51What they'll be doing is taking that money--
1:13:53- Like PayPal charges you a fee,
1:13:55but Dwalla holds your money for three days.
1:13:57- That's a bank.
1:13:58- This is what I'm saying.
1:14:00Right, so this is why, when this was first rumored,
1:14:03Ricoh had this report weeks ago.
1:14:05This is likely to very much upset
1:14:08Apple's banking partners for Apple Pay.
1:14:10This is a real big risky move they're making here,
1:14:14because what Apple is saying is,
1:14:16Your card is now redundant because we have our own and people can pay with it in stores and they can pay with it in our store.
1:14:22But what happens to it?
1:14:24Take this money to hold it to make money on it.
1:14:26And then if you put it back into their store again, that's even more money with no fees.
1:14:31It's very interesting. This is a big play from Apple to the point where like in three or four years,
1:14:41this might be where your money goes.
1:14:43Like if they keep rolling it out and we have these cards and these like virtual
1:14:47accounts, just get your salary paid to it.
1:14:49That's dependent on people doing the peer to peer payments.
1:14:52So what if I don't have any friends who send me money?
1:14:55I'll never have an Apple wallet.
1:14:57So yeah, you would have to get your salary transferred.
1:14:59Or you could load it.
1:15:00You can load your, you can probably load money in yourself.
1:15:03I mean, I think that, you know, we'll probably have like podcast hosts
1:15:06who want to be paid this way, you know, as opposed to PayPal and wallet.
1:15:09Providing that they have the a good level of report and for taxes. Yeah
1:15:13This could be a great way for me to get paid. Yeah to cut PayPal out
1:15:18Yeah, and that I could do it, you know as a business and have my business account. I mean, there's there's questions there
1:15:23They may you know, there may be language in there that forbids business transactions, you know, who knows but it's a nice move
1:15:30It seems really well integrated people already trust the Apple pay system and touch ID. They're building on all the tech. They already had
1:15:37We also see in iOS 11
1:15:40We're seeing some new live photo stuff so you can edit live photos. You can make them loop or bounce back. This is all so fantastic
1:15:47I'm so happy to do more of live photos. Me too. Like this is so good. I'm so excited for all of that.
1:15:51I wasn't a fan of them initially, but I sort of have come around a lot
1:15:55Especially, you know kids and pets and you know, it's it's a lot of fun so you can edit them
1:16:00You can save them out as different things now
1:16:02We talked about the App Store
1:16:05Let's get to control center. I
1:16:07For one so control center right now is two panes unless you have homekit then it's three you have you're now playing stuff
1:16:15You have your regular control center stuff, you know flashlight
1:16:17Rotation lock that sort of thing then you have a homekit panel if you have the home app configured
1:16:22So my phone and iPad I've got three
1:16:24With iOS 11 they've they've collapsed it back into one. There's no side to side. It's all completely modular
1:16:33You can go into settings and configure what goes into it where it sits what comes out of it. There's sliders
1:16:38There's all sorts of controls. There'll be a link to a mac rumor story in the show notes
1:16:42This looks incredibly
1:16:45Confusing to me. I think like awesome. I
1:16:48Think it's so cool. I love the way it looks
1:16:50And I love I love the fact that there's so many things I can do in it
1:16:54I think it's fantastic customization, but I feel like a everyone's control center is gonna be different
1:16:59It's like when someone asks you how to turn my flashlight on, you're like, well,
1:17:02you know, see me, you know, it's really easy now.
1:17:04It's going to be harder in the new one, but yeah,
1:17:07I'm not a fan of how it looks. And I think that some of,
1:17:10some of the labels and stuff, you're kind of going to have to know what they are.
1:17:13Um, cause so many more things can be surfaced into it.
1:17:17There's a full Apple TV remote and control center. Now, you know, right now,
1:17:21you know,
1:17:21now if you have the Apple TV remote installed and you like pan on the Apple
1:17:26Siri remote to a text input, you get a push notification on your phone and you
1:17:31can type right to the, it's really nice.
1:17:33So I like them making the iPhone and iPad a better Apple TV remote because
1:17:38the Apple TV remote stinks.
1:17:40I don't know how, how I feel about control center.
1:17:44I think I, uh, I love the customization customization.
1:17:47I'm not sure about the UI, uh, probably because it's beta one.
1:17:51It's I bet it's going to change.
1:17:52Usually we've got this kind of UI refinements throughout the summer.
1:17:56I love the idea of, here you go, you have multiple blocks.
1:18:01It's kind of like Lego for shortcuts.
1:18:03You can sort of mix and match the ones
1:18:05that you need the most,
1:18:06and you kind of have your own placements.
1:18:08And, you know, it seems to me like it's obvious
1:18:12we're gonna get third-party shortcuts in the future,
1:18:15that it's gonna be a new extension point.
1:18:17That is not available right now,
1:18:20but Apple is making a ton of new shortcuts.
1:18:22Like, I saw someone's control center last night,
1:18:25and they had a shortcut to create a new note, for example.
1:18:28I love the idea.
1:18:32I'm surprised that Apple is kind of doing,
1:18:35going in the opposite direction on last year of,
1:18:37we're gonna break it into multiple pages
1:18:40and so we have more room to breathe
1:18:43and to show you deeper, richer controls.
1:18:45And now they're sort of going back to,
1:18:47it's a single dashboard, you know,
1:18:50with all these widgets.
1:18:52I'm surprised you're not looking at me right now, Steven.
1:18:54saying words that should catch your interest.
1:18:57- I'm just trying to catch my breath.
1:19:00- Just keep it together?
1:19:01- Keep it together.
1:19:02It is widget-y.
1:19:04- It is widget-y, and it's very different from last year,
1:19:08where it's so elegant, it's so pretty,
1:19:10and it's multiple pages you can swipe.
1:19:12Now it's, yeah, you know what,
1:19:13just make a single page and a bunch of buttons.
1:19:16- Yeah, this is my aesthetic.
1:19:18I love it.
1:19:19- I think I would like it too,
1:19:20and especially how you can open like the contextual windows from last year.
1:19:26We got those especially in the HomeKit page of Control Center,
1:19:29where you can press to open the, you know, the volume, not the volume,
1:19:33the intensity adjustment UI for lights, colors.
1:19:38So you had these contextual windows inside of Control Center.
1:19:41Now they are pop ups in the single page.
1:19:43So like the music player becomes a bigger one with the artwork
1:19:46and with the progress bar. I like it.
1:19:49- All relying on 3D Touch? - Yeah.
1:19:51- Or fake 3D Touch. - You can turn personal hotspot on and off.
1:19:54Yeah, there's some weird long-press stuff on the iPad now.
1:19:57- But it was not us here. - There's way more of it.
1:20:01- Like, I know you can do it, but it's everywhere. - Yeah.
1:20:05Maybe the new iPad Pro will... Oh, no.
1:20:07They're not gonna do it. It's too difficult. It's far too difficult,
1:20:10but long-press is kind of solving the problem.
1:20:12Yeah, BrokenFlows on Twitter had asked,
1:20:14"Do you think we'll see third-party apps in this?"
1:20:17and I agree with you Federico, I think it definitely will.
1:20:20Not yet.
1:20:20Not yet, because if this works, if the people don't sort of grab the pitchforks
1:20:29because Control Center is different, if this works and it doesn't change again next year,
1:20:34it makes sense that WWDC 2018 to be like, there's a new extension point,
1:20:38you can make your own icons and your own buttons.
1:20:39So let me offer a theory.
1:20:44If this is successful and they open it up to developers,
1:20:48this could become the system that Apple would finally update Springboard with
1:20:53more stuff. Like I could see this,
1:20:55this system graduating from control center.
1:20:58Like what if I want Screenbrin is on my home screen or in the today view?
1:21:03Like why does this stuff have to be?
1:21:04The new iPad software is showing it Springboard is going through work because
1:21:10Just we're moving into the iPad now.
1:21:13I think we're very close to this, but like there is stuff in there
1:21:18that is so vastly different from how it was before.
1:21:21So I think you're right.
1:21:22I think this could be the beginning of a change where we could start to get some more.
1:21:26It could start break out of the grid before we talk about the iPad.
1:21:31Just two minutes on whatever is going on with notifications,
1:21:34because it doesn't make sense. Makes no sense.
1:21:37It makes no sense.
1:21:37So they've changed from basically now notification center is the lock screen.
1:21:43It doesn't lock your phone, but it is the lock screen.
1:21:48So when you swipe down, it goes back to the lock screen.
1:21:50You see the big clock at the top and see a lock screen wallpaper.
1:21:54If you have different, it basically it, what they've done, I think is
1:21:58they've changed the layering in iOS that now instead of like the lock screen
1:22:03of cases are being side by side, they've merged and they're on top of springboard.
1:22:07It is weird. I played with it a little bit on an iPad yesterday.
1:22:10And I think like every other lock screen change will get used to it.
1:22:14Like I remember talking about a year ago how weird Iowa SIN's lock screen was.
1:22:18Yeah, I just don't understand why I'm a slide on lock still.
1:22:21Why you cannot have the notification center layer.
1:22:25That is also the widget layer. And he remembers where you are.
1:22:29Yeah, I don't know.
1:22:30I think that I think that it's just broken on the iPad right now.
1:22:33They're not going to get rid of the widgets.
1:22:35- They're on the phone and it doesn't make sense either.
1:22:37- Yeah, I think honestly, I think with the way it is
1:22:40right now, this is just like a little,
1:22:41it's like a bit broken, you bet you want it.
1:22:42I think it's gonna be refined, the dual pane back,
1:22:45the widgets back, I think all it is,
1:22:47they're just trying to like stop it from being in two places
1:22:51'cause it's in two places right now, right?
1:22:53You have the lock screen
1:22:54and you have the notification center shade.
1:22:57They're the same thing.
1:22:58They are the same-- - That was pretty nice.
1:23:00- Yeah, but they're the same thing, right?
1:23:01So they're just like, well, we're just gonna make it one,
1:23:03It all looks the same, it's one thing.
1:23:05I can kind of see it,
1:23:06as long as they preserve the existing functionality,
1:23:09it's just rather than having two views.
1:23:10- They're not bringing back your--
1:23:12- No, I know that's not coming back.
1:23:13That's gone, that's never coming back, the sorting options.
1:23:16But it's just weird, but honestly,
1:23:19I just think it's not complete yet.
1:23:23So I'm gonna give a couple more betas
1:23:24and we can come back to that.
1:23:25See how I see that shipping out,
1:23:26'cause it doesn't make any sense right now.
1:23:28- The other thing they did,
1:23:30it's iPad only, but on the lock screen,
1:23:32If you have an iPad Pro with a pencil,
1:23:35you bring the pencil down the lock screen,
1:23:36you can configure it to automatically launch a note.
1:23:39And this note is like sandboxed away from your other notes.
1:23:42You just put stuff in it.
1:23:43It kind of turns the iPad into like a clipboard almost.
1:23:46Or like a new-- - Samsung.
1:23:47- Yeah. - Galaxy Note stuff.
1:23:48I think it's awesome.
1:23:49- Newton did it first. - Sure did it.
1:23:51I think it's really cool.
1:23:52I think it's a good idea.
1:23:53So you just like, just write your note.
1:23:54- I like it.
1:23:55It makes it really fast.
1:23:56You don't have to like unlock the iPad
1:23:58and find your notes app and create a new note.
1:23:59- It's a nice shortcut.
1:24:00- I think it's great.
1:24:01really looking forward to using it. Yeah, I think with all the lock screen stuff, I
1:24:06mean, that stuff is up to change a little bit maybe, but I think it's one of those
1:24:10things we're just going to get used to because we use it dozens of times a day.
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1:25:17So the new iPad. I think that's it. So they're new iPads. Two new iPads. I'll run through
1:25:27the specs and I'll let you guys go because I know you've been itching. 10.5
1:25:30inch 12.9 inch spec wise they're the same so the A10X Fusion chip, 6
1:25:36quart like the iPhone 3 fast 3 slow 4 gigs of RAM the camera system from the
1:25:41iPhone 7 they both have true tone they both have USB 3 fast charging they are
1:25:47the same iPad except for the screen size yeah which is great. We're going back to
1:25:54the era of same iPad, same hardware, different sizes.
1:25:58I think that's how it should be.
1:25:59Yeah, I agree.
1:26:01And the 10.5, I'm really interested to see how it compares to the 9.7 because I've
1:26:11only had some brief hands-on experience in the demo area and it looks like it keeps the
1:26:20a compact form factor of the 9.7 but it sort of extends the display a little and so I don't
1:26:27know if, you know, I'm a big iPad Pro user so I don't know if even if it's…
1:26:32Really? Yeah.
1:26:33Interesting.
1:26:34Yeah, yeah, I am.
1:26:35That's a weird thing to say. I really like the iPad Pro.
1:26:39No, I mean I use the big iPad Pro.
1:26:42Oh, oh, you're a big iPad Pro user.
1:26:45It's like big…
1:26:46You're a big user of the iPad Pro.
1:26:48I'm a big guy. I misunderstood. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's what I meant. Can we hug? Yeah
1:26:54We got we got a what
1:26:58And I'm really interested like I
1:27:02Compares to the big bro sort of can I use it is the keyboard big enough is the split view big enough it does it?
1:27:08Feel feel like to full iPad apps at the same time. Probably not it isn't it isn't I mean
1:27:13I've I've seen people talk about it and I actually said that's that's where they differ
1:27:17So the rumor had been the 10.5 inch will have the 12.9 resolution in a smaller screen, just
1:27:24like the iPad and the iPad mini.
1:27:26That is not true.
1:27:27The 10.5 inch iPad has a new third screen resolution that is in between.
1:27:32It's larger than the 9.7, but not as big as the 12.9, which is probably the right way
1:27:36to go.
1:27:38Things won't be shrunken down, but it means that split screen isn't going to be two vertical
1:27:44iPad apps side by side.
1:27:46it's gonna be more like the 9.7,
1:27:48we have one that's closer to the iPhone class.
1:27:50So yeah, that's a little bit of a mixed bag, I think.
1:27:53- Yeah. - Yeah.
1:27:54I really want the 10.5,
1:27:58my hope was that the 10.5 would give me everything I wanted,
1:28:01but I'm not so sure anymore.
1:28:04Like, I think it might be that I still maintain
1:28:07the multi-pad lifestyle,
1:28:09because especially now, 12.9 with True Tone.
1:28:14- It's gonna look real good.
1:28:14And the 120 hertz refresh rate is going to look awesome, I bet.
1:28:18I'm very excited to see how that's going to look like playing games at 60 frames
1:28:23a second. So like
1:28:25like I said, in Nintendo Switch, right, there are times where you play a game,
1:28:28same game like Mario Kart, one time 30 frames next to 60.
1:28:32You really see it like it looks kind of like it's not real,
1:28:36like there's too much motion.
1:28:37Like if you shoot video in 30 frames a second or 60 frames a second,
1:28:41and I expect it's going to look something like that. Yeah.
1:28:43But the big story is the software.
1:28:48It's everything we wanted.
1:28:50It's everything we wanted.
1:28:53Yeah, it's just they took Sierra and they just, they polished it.
1:28:57Wrong.
1:28:58Sorry.
1:28:59And they shipped it on the iPad.
1:29:00Okay, so.
1:29:01I was very emotional yesterday.
1:29:05There's a picture of you in the show notes already.
1:29:07Okay, did you do the before and after?
1:29:11The two John tweets?
1:29:13Yeah, yeah. Okay. We're good. I almost do not remember that portion of the keynote at
1:29:20this point. I was getting worried after the iOS segment, like they were showing all these
1:29:27features and they kind of glossed over the iPad. And so when they said, you know, item
1:29:32on our list number six to talk about, number five to talk about at the keynote is the iPad.
1:29:38I was, you know, strapping in and I was ready.
1:29:41But when I think there was a moment, probably when the new dock came up
1:29:47or when the when the drag and drop slide came up, I was like,
1:29:50this is happening.
1:29:53This is, you know, they're doing it.
1:29:54That made me so nervous was when Tim said this is the biggest iPad update ever.
1:29:59I was like, don't say that.
1:30:02Like, don't say it.
1:30:03Like, say it afterwards. Don't say it before.
1:30:05But it is, though, right?
1:30:06It is. It is.
1:30:07So me and you were talking about this, right?
1:30:10Because there's a lot of jokes about, oh, they just made it the Mac.
1:30:13And it's an easy joke. We've already made it funny.
1:30:15But the thing is.
1:30:17What they've done, adding things like the doc,
1:30:20added things like spaces, adding things like files,
1:30:23they've taken ideas from computing.
1:30:27Right. So these are all ideas that exist on the Mac.
1:30:30These ideas exist on Windows.
1:30:32They've taken what these things are, why people need them,
1:30:36and then created solutions to those problems on iOS.
1:30:41I think it's called experience.
1:30:43Like you've known how things went in the past,
1:30:48and you wanna build upon that because yes,
1:30:51maybe sometimes the solution is an old idea,
1:30:54but we shouldn't conflate old ideas
1:30:58with new implementation of those old ideas.
1:31:02There's a difference between taking an old idea
1:31:04and just making it work as it is,
1:31:06or as it used to be, and taking the old idea,
1:31:09but sort of reimagining it and making it feel modern
1:31:12and sort of working around the limitations of the past.
1:31:15There's a good example, I think, of taking an old concept
1:31:19but making it new and making it feel IOS-y,
1:31:23sort of very native to the platform.
1:31:26And that's the Finder compared to Files,
1:31:29the new app for file management on IOS 11.
1:31:33In the Finder, companies like Dropbox have been able to sort of hack into the UI to install
1:31:39these custom directories with special privileges. And it's pretty great because it allows you
1:31:46to have a top level Dropbox destination and you can have badges. On iOS 11 and with the
1:31:52Files app, everything is just an extension point. So third party storage companies like
1:31:58Box and Dropbox and I assume Google Drive if Google ever gets into you know to work with API.
1:32:04Google Drive was on the slide and it was mentioned on stage.
1:32:07I assume it'll work.
1:32:07So like we don't know that they're confirmed but like my feelings if they spoke about them
1:32:12they at least know about it? Like Apple's at least spoken to these companies?
1:32:16So in the old era you had the Finder and if you wanted to have like a different storage service
1:32:23you had to sort of do all these hacks and workarounds. Now you can have a do-over because
1:32:29you get the chance to reimagine these features so you know that people are going to ask for
1:32:33different services than iCloud Drive so why not just make it secure, make it safe, make
1:32:37it integrated into the UI and the system and make it an extension.
1:32:42The best way to improve a platform like this is to just understand and accept that as Apple
1:32:47you can't do it all. Like you need help from other people. You can't just be like "iCloud
1:32:52awesome move all your Dropbox photos to iCloud. That is a bad solution. Like the
1:32:57solution is integrate it, give it a great API, make it safe, lock it down the way
1:33:03that you want and then you're good to go. And it incentivizes the companies to do
1:33:07so. So say that Box and Google Drive do it but Dropbox doesn't. Then it's not
1:33:13that Apple looks bad, it's that Dropbox looks bad. The argument that Apple is
1:33:17taking the Mac features and it's boring because it's just a Mac on the iPad, it
1:33:22That doesn't make a lot of sense to me because look at the way for example that we've gone
1:33:26from cars to electric cars.
1:33:29Still a car, still an old idea, but it's done in a new way.
1:33:35And I think that's what we should understand that old ideas are always going to be sticking
1:33:41around but it's how you make them work in practice that makes a difference.
1:33:47And so we were trying this morning, we were playing around with an iPad that was running
1:33:51iOS 11.
1:33:54And it's really different.
1:33:56I'm not sure, I mean we'll probably come up with some, you know, complaints or things
1:34:02we don't like but overall it feels amazing.
1:34:06Like drag and drop, the multitasking UI is different, you can drag and drop apps, you
1:34:12You have a file manager, there's just so much stuff all at once and what developers will
1:34:18be able to do with this.
1:34:21It makes me question if, I mean I already know I'm going to create way fewer workflows
1:34:28because I can now do things like drag and drop and because apps are going to be able
1:34:33to communicate together to exchange the same files so less automation will be needed.
1:34:38But I feel like it's a new beginning for the iPad and it's sort of a one-two punch of you're
1:34:45getting the hardware now and you're going to get the software later.
1:34:48I feel like that's been very much planned and it's what Apple wants to do to sort of
1:34:54give you the new hardware and make you wait until September for a whole new story.
1:34:58And I'm really excited to see where they go with this.
1:35:02Yeah, I've just been blown away by it.
1:35:06everything that we were wanting and in ways that I didn't really imagine like
1:35:12some of the implementation is just so good. Like the drag-and-drop stuff is
1:35:15fantastic like and it looks like there might be better rich tech support as
1:35:20well which is just I'm so excited about the prospect of that. I was at the State
1:35:24of the Union yesterday and Adobe was showing us the showing of this demo of
1:35:29picking up multiple color palettes and tools from one of their sketching apps
1:35:34And initially I thought, oh well, they're just gonna pick up multiple colors and drop
1:35:40them somewhere else.
1:35:42But then what they did was they picked up with drag and drop different types.
1:35:47So one was a color and the other was a brush.
1:35:51They're two different items in terms of software.
1:35:54One is a color, the other is a tool.
1:35:56And they dropped them into a sort of a toolbar and the system was able to intelligently understand
1:36:03you want a red brush. So it's this kind of combination of multiple items and drag and
1:36:09drop with multiple files at the same time and then they went into a different app and
1:36:14they moved multiple layers. It was really impressive and it fixes so many problems that
1:36:21we used to have like it's terrible to work with multiple files on iOS because you're
1:36:25stuck in this one way communication with one file. It feels so good. It's kind of rough
1:36:33right now of course because it's the beta one but I feel I'm very happy like I when I think about it
1:36:39I got a huge smile on my face and I cannot wait to get back home and put the beta on my iPad because
1:36:44I want to play with it. Me too and it seems like I played with it on other people's iPads it seems
1:36:49seems more solid than a beta one tends to usually be things seem to be working okay and also like
1:36:55you know it was funny with iOS 9 you couldn't really use anything in split view right because
1:37:01because no apps are ready, but now it's like we have a new split view, but it just works the same as the last one from a size class, in respect to.
1:37:07So even though you can now move things from side to side, you can have these apps that just float over the top.
1:37:12It all works with the current apps that you have.
1:37:14And the fact that you can even do two apps in split view and one floating as a picture-in-picture app,
1:37:22it sort of looks like you have Windows on iOS, but it goes back to the idea of,
1:37:29taking old ideas and making them new. Because yes, it is a window, but not necessarily it
1:37:35means "oh, they're just copying what the Mac had". Because it's got different limitations,
1:37:40got different interactions, and it's actually much easier than a window. You don't need
1:37:45to care about closing the window or just resizing the window, it just floats like picture in
1:37:49picture, which arguably was one of the best iOS 9 features, to be able to take a video
1:37:53and make it a floating thing. And now you can do that for apps, which I think is a really
1:37:58good idea. I love the dock. I love the dock.
1:38:04Especially speaking, it looks really different and I think a lot of our workflows are going
1:38:10to change because we got two years to get accustomed to, we have the home screen and
1:38:17we have the primary app on the left and then when you launch something it sort of moves.
1:38:22And now it's all different because you have these spaces, metaphor, and those two apps
1:38:28in a space are fixed in position.
1:38:31You always launch something else, you got a new multitasking UI, and you can put up
1:38:35to 13, 14 apps in the dock.
1:38:38Including folders.
1:38:39Including folders.
1:38:40And then there's recents.
1:38:41And then there's Siri.
1:38:42It's proactive.
1:38:43Yeah, proactive.
1:38:44You're like, "Oh, you always look at news in the morning.
1:38:46Let me put news in the dock for you."
1:38:48Yeah, I mean, all right.
1:38:50But it's very different.
1:38:52Yeah, it's broken in some ways, right? Like it's broken the workflows, but they're just new ones.
1:39:00They say like, there are things that it doesn't do that the old Split View used to do,
1:39:05and we're just gonna have to get used to the way that that works, but I think that ultimately
1:39:11we're gonna be in a much better position than we were previously.
1:39:14And yeah.
1:39:16Like I'm very excited about this Federico. I really want to just start digging into it
1:39:23and playing around. The drag and drop is really, really interesting.
1:39:27I think professionally speaking yesterday was one of my happiest days in my career.
1:39:34I was just happy.
1:39:36I agree.
1:39:37Like no sarcasm, no, I was just happy.
1:39:42And one last comment on, because I like to make fun of the Mac people, but there's also
1:39:51a subset of iOS users who I guess were so convinced that Apple would never ever go back
1:39:58and take a look at old ideas and reimagine them.
1:40:02And it sort of feels like what we ended up with is somewhere in the middle.
1:40:09There's the old and there's the new and we've just got to figure out what the future will
1:40:15look like.
1:40:17But I've never been more positive.
1:40:23I feel very good about the way that Apple is splitting up these two devices.
1:40:27The Mac has its own ways, it's setting its own interface,
1:40:32metaphors and styles and workflows for power users,
1:40:37and the iPad and iOS are trying something new
1:40:40that is familiar but new, and I feel very good about that.
1:40:44- How do you feel about the idea,
1:40:46I think historically when adding things
1:40:49to the iPad in particular or an iOS in general,
1:40:52Apple tries to find the balance between complexity
1:40:55and making the UI really simple and understandable.
1:40:59And I think there are parts of this
1:41:02that aren't necessarily intuitive or discoverable.
1:41:05Do you think it was just time to revisit that balance?
1:41:08- It feels to me like I actually had a note
1:41:11about this in my first notes about iOS 11.
1:41:14It feels to me like the second generation
1:41:18of multi-touch is for pro users,
1:41:20because you get all these different gestures
1:41:23and shortcuts based on multi-touch.
1:41:26Multi-touch launched as a way for everyone,
1:41:31average users, to simplify their interactions.
1:41:33So you get the pinch to zoom,
1:41:36you get to do the finger scrolling.
1:41:38But now, it's not new multi-touch,
1:41:41but it's a second era of multi-touch.
1:41:43It's all grown up, and it's been used by pro users
1:41:46to do things like the drag and drop
1:41:48where you can hold something
1:41:49and use the other hand to sort of navigate.
1:41:52It's fun to watch people use drag and drop and not think to do that.
1:41:56Yeah, because it's always just been, yeah, one like a one hand
1:42:00holding and then you just open
1:42:02UI is being manipulated by the hovering of the thing, right?
1:42:05Even like rearranging apps on the home screen works that way now.
1:42:08Yeah, you can hold it and you can tap them all up and drag a bunch over.
1:42:11Like it is it's it's really different in a really good way like.
1:42:20It's a we're really happy and I just feel like it's everything I want.
1:42:27I mean, there's no shelf.
1:42:29If you go back to the concept that we discussed,
1:42:32there's no holding area for sort of temporary stuff, but that's OK.
1:42:37I feel like what we needed was a new foundation, was a new story to tell.
1:42:42Foundation is the good way of putting it.
1:42:43And we got that.
1:42:44And now we can hopefully if Apple has a plan for this and I
1:42:48I believe they do. If they have a plan they can sort of iterate on this over the summer,
1:42:55launch iOS 11 and build whatever's next. And I just feel like Myke and I are really happy Steven.
1:43:03We're happy iPad users. No it's great. I think it's the iPad for so long has been held back by
1:43:12the fact that its operating system started on a phone. And if you look at the bulk of what's
1:43:16what's an iOS 11, the bulk of it is the iPad.
1:43:19This stuff isn't on the phone.
1:43:21And finally they are starting to diverge the two
1:43:26in a bigger way, and it's what they've needed to do.
1:43:29It's awesome.
1:43:30I was super impressed watching it.
1:43:32And I think even though some of the exact ideas
1:43:37in your video aren't here, I think the feeling
1:43:40behind your video has been fulfilled.
1:43:43I think it's great.
1:43:43I'm looking forward to having it on my iPad.
1:43:46I really am.
1:43:47- We done?
1:43:49- Yeah, for now.
1:43:50- I think we got more iPad next week, right?
1:43:52We need to play with it.
1:43:53- We need to play with it.
1:43:53I'm probably gonna put it on my big Pro.
1:43:56- Yeah, I haven't decided where I'm gonna put it yet.
1:43:57And also, like, oh, we're buying iPads?
1:44:00- Yeah, I'm buying the big one, I think.
1:44:02- I'm gonna get the 10 5 to start.
1:44:04I think it's very likely that I'll probably end up
1:44:06getting both eventually.
1:44:08And I'm hoping, it looks like that they're gonna be
1:44:10available from Tuesday next week, right?
1:44:13Like that's when it looks like the first ones
1:44:14are being delivered.
1:44:15ordered one, I'm gonna go to a store in London when I get home.
1:44:18I looked today, if you order today it ships on the 14th, so it's about a week out from
1:44:23whenever you order maybe.
1:44:24So I'm gonna just try going to a store next week and see if I can pick one up in person,
1:44:28because I figure the stores will start to have them next week.
1:44:30So yeah, I think it's a great looking device.
1:44:34We didn't talk just very briefly before we wrap up, there are new accessories for it.
1:44:38So the smart keyboard is a little bit wider, it's gotta be right, I haven't used one, but
1:44:42it has to be wider because the iPad is a little bit bigger, so hopefully the keys are a little
1:44:45more comfortable. It comes in 30 language layouts from launch. Yeah from launch.
1:44:50Unlike last time it took like a year or something for the first international
1:44:53ones to roll out. It was a long time. And some new cases including one
1:44:59that's like a slipcover that the pencil can go into. It's like a sleeve.
1:45:04It looks like a desk pad. Like you would imagine like an old desk pad like
1:45:08it would sit on a desk like you'd have just this leather thing you put your pad
1:45:11on and do your writing on. It's like a desk set. And they have one that's just for the
1:45:15pencil that if you don't want the whole sleeve you can just kind of snap the pencil into.
1:45:19And there's a Logitech one. There's a new Logitech case. Looks like an advancement of
1:45:22the create. Yeah, so I looked at that. It is detachable, which looks nice. And it has
1:45:26a kickstand. It changed the angle, yeah. It has a kickstand. Oh, it has a kickstand. But
1:45:29I don't know how the kickstand, the kickstand is like the Surface's kickstand. Hmm. So I
1:45:33don't know how it will feel on the lap. So I'm not sure. It's not like the Razer keyboard
1:45:38where you can actually put it on the lap because there's like a wide base. Yeah. Or like the
1:45:43I played with the bridge today with Jason's. It's nice. It's not like that at all. It's got a kickstand on the back of the case.
1:45:49Yeah, I'm just saying. So yeah, so new accessories and
1:45:52all the sleeves and stuff I think work with both. They have them for both sizes. So I think all in all
1:45:59like to sum all this up two hours in
1:46:02thumbs up.
1:46:03Big thumbs up from all of us. I think this is my favorite WWDC of all time. Yeah. Yeah.
1:46:08Yeah, I'd go with that. Because the things I'm not happy about I'm not angry about.
1:46:12Yeah, you're not enthusiastic about the home pod
1:46:14It's good for some people. I just don't want it hasn't enraged you
1:46:18I'm not like oh you did an idiotic thing like I just think that they didn't make the right call
1:46:22But I'm just gonna keep my echo. Yeah, I
1:46:24Feel like I want to be optimistic again, and I feel like I can be yeah like the last year's just really sucked
1:46:33I feel like I can breathe. Yeah, it's like it's just not been good. It was started with last year like iOS 10
1:46:38I think we're all a little bit under wound especially if you're an iPad user, right?
1:46:41We were given so much promise with nine got nothing but ten. I feel like Mac users are happy now. They're getting products
1:46:48iPad users are happy again. We're getting products. We're likely to get an incredible phone in September
1:46:54Like I'm really excited about this next year up to iOS 12. Yeah
1:46:59So I think that's it. You want to catch the show notes for this week relay.fm/connected/145
1:47:08Thanks again to hover max stadium and igloo for supporting the show when I find us online
1:47:13Stevens at 512 pixels net he's at is m/h
1:47:16Federico's at max stories dot net is at for teaching v.i.t.i. CCI I am at I Myke I am y ke
1:47:22We'll be right next time we won't be together though, so it probably won't be as funny
1:47:27I don't know we'll see until then say goodbye guys. Sorry with it you adios