The Accidental Tech Podcast

171: WWDC Is Not Santa Claus


  egg salad is not delicious salt and [TS]

  mayonnaise are delicious that's what [TS]

  you're tasting exiled is not delicious [TS]

  salads awesome are you talking about [TS]

  exhales good exhales fine it's not too [TS]

  late i wouldn't am NOT going to rave [TS]

  about it [TS]

  that's ridiculous a it's delicious but [TS]

  it's quite good what exactly it's not [TS]

  delicious see I i went through several [TS]

  containers of your actual chicken salad [TS]

  which is good is your chicken salad but [TS]

  i also had egg salad to compare with him [TS]

  when it came time like somebody can tell [TS]

  you know like you feel like you have a [TS]

  preference you go either way depending [TS]

  on the mood for when I came time to pick [TS]

  is kinda leaning towards the eggs out a [TS]

  lot it's the yolks man that's what does [TS]

  it's the yolks we should talk about [TS]

  t-shirts all right yeah so it was late [TS]

  breaking news after we had recorded that [TS]

  we were able to get everything squared [TS]

  away between ourselves with cotton [TS]

  bureau who who have been excellent so [TS]

  far so many things to je and timmy [TS]

  cotton bureau we have two shirts up for [TS]

  sale in case you haven't heard or [TS]

  haven't looked [TS]

  one of them which we kind of call [TS]

  watches is inspired by ricardo melo's [TS]

  tweet and then j designed it is pixel [TS]

  art as everyone expected [TS]

  John has thoughts about this pixel art [TS]

  but it's the three of us with our [TS]

  respective choices of wristwear and then [TS]

  the other one is just kind of our logo [TS]

  shirt which is kind of combination of [TS]

  our automotive heritage and our current [TS]

  are our automotive and current in and [TS]

  macintosh heritage for those of us who [TS]

  around in the six colors days which is [TS]

  basically just John so they'll be up for [TS]

  sale and so what third of june i believe [TS]

  so as this episode is released probably [TS]

  about another week [TS]

  don't delay don't forget I cannot tell [TS]

  you how many people have said after the [TS]

  last round of shirts went up [TS]

  oh yeah just never watched never pulled [TS]

  the trigger on ordering it i just forgot [TS]

  and so can you make them again no we [TS]

  can't so pull the trigger as you're [TS]

  thinking of it [TS]

  get yourselves a shirt if you want i am [TS]

  really happy with this year shirts [TS]

  especially since up until like a week [TS]

  and a half before they went up for sale [TS]

  we had no freaking clue what to do for [TS]

  shirts so I'm really happy with them [TS]

  and you should buy one to support the [TS]

  show so thanks everyone who has one and [TS]

  everyone who will buy one [TS]

  yeah thank you so far we haven't [TS]

  repeated any shirts so again the same [TS]

  thing like you I don't know for maybe [TS]

  we'll this from this year on we'll just [TS]

  review the same sure it's over again but [TS]

  so far we haven't repeated any so if [TS]

  you'd like one of the shirts don't [TS]

  assume i'll just buy an extra because it [TS]

  might not be the next year or it might [TS]

  but anyway same will have a critical [TS]

  shirts that I sold just once and I still [TS]

  get people to me to this day take the [TS]

  years later like I missed out buying [TS]

  those shirts [TS]

  i mean--and and make no mistake these [TS]

  are expensive t-shirts especially your [TS]

  shipping them especially if you're [TS]

  shipping them far away all podcasters [TS]

  expensive i know i have i have literally [TS]

  at boxes in the Attic filled with [TS]

  podcast and website t-shirts but they're [TS]

  cool to have and in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things they're actually pretty rare [TS]

  because who listens to weird technology [TS]

  podcast and then who buys a t-shirt for [TS]

  a technique party is not a lot of people [TS]

  so I kind of machine we didn't make it [TS]

  for WotC but I think they're fun shirts [TS]

  and I have had a question for you guys [TS]

  we haven't talked about this on twitter [TS]

  we have no one I believe has spelled out [TS]

  the visual metaphor of the ATP logo [TS]

  shirt and I have been hesitant to do so [TS]

  because I feel like explaining it kind [TS]

  of makes it worse but maybe I'm wrong [TS]

  maybe people maybe people would be more [TS]

  excited about the sheriff the understood [TS]

  what we were going for [TS]

  so would you like to explain yeah it's [TS]

  pretty obvious connection if you're in [TS]

  the right mindset but if you're not [TS]

  thinking that way might not occur to you [TS]

  and of course you don't know anything [TS]

  about cars and you don't care then like [TS]

  explaining to someone who does know [TS]

  anything about cars [TS]

  it's pointless because they don't care [TS]

  right yeah so I guess we're not [TS]

  explaining it when people feel free [TS]

  alright well okay well since ing [TS]

  summarizer in chief yeah exactly so [TS]

  since I'm the only current at BWW owner [TS]

  this is a play on the BMW M symbol which [TS]

  will put a link to that in the show [TS]

  notes basically BMW M is there uh [TS]

  motorsports group and so Marcos and five [TS]

  which we've talked about ad nauseam on [TS]

  the show and certainly was kind of the [TS]

  driving art behind neutral the way that [TS]

  logo looks is it's three colors and [TS]

  there's a story behind them i think one [TS]

  was bavaria one was texaco which had a [TS]

  deal with BMW at the time [TS]

  m was created and one was just like a [TS]

  purple to kind of blend the two so Jay [TS]

  at cotton bureau completely on his own [TS]

  accord like with zero input from us [TS]

  thought oh well I can take the six [TS]

  colors from the original mac and then do [TS]

  a kind of stylized ATP and kind of blend [TS]

  our automotive history coming out of [TS]

  neutral and get like old-school Mac [TS]

  flare going and get kind of a mash-up of [TS]

  the both and you keep saying Mac like [TS]

  those are like those pc users who say [TS]

  you like mac computers is Mac making an [TS]

  ipod now in all categories into the mac [TS]

  store and you know captain iron Mac [TS]

  makes phones now I'm sorry to offend you [TS]

  old man what was the appropriate the [TS]

  apple logo it's the rainbow striped [TS]

  apple logo it's a logo they had really [TS]

  like the first you know 15 or whatever [TS]

  years of the company's existence [TS]

  fair enough I I regret the air thank you [TS]

  and god I'm gonna get so many emails but [TS]

  I saved you from the emails now feel [TS]

  like it's been addressed my apologies [TS]

  for that but anyway the point being that [TS]

  it's a combination of the original apple [TS]

  logo and the BMW m logo or inspired not [TS]

  the original apple logo I'm saving you [TS]

  again wonderful original apple logo was [TS]

  that was that pen-and-ink drawing of the [TS]

  guy under the tree for you some emails [TS]

  and quick anyway yeah i was telling a [TS]

  double selling t-shirts with the [TS]

  original apple logo on them along with [TS]

  the rainbow stripes apple logo and a [TS]

  bunch of icons and other stuff on their [TS]

  40th anniversary i tried to get some [TS]

  tried to have my minions in cupertino [TS]

  buy them from the apple store infinite [TS]

  loop but they were too late they were [TS]

  sold out [TS]

  yeah actually we have millions there I [TS]

  need somebody get me some pens for tiff [TS]

  but yeah you know I have mins maybe you [TS]

  find in any case so please uh if you [TS]

  have if you have the means by shirt also [TS]

  a John alluded to touched on this [TS]

  earlier but we do understand i know it [TS]

  doesn't sound like we do but we do [TS]

  understand that shipping is extremely [TS]

  expensive across the pond and we are [TS]

  genuinely very sorry for that in hand on [TS]

  heart we weighed that as as a con when [TS]

  deciding how to do the t-shirts this [TS]

  year there are other t-shirt vendors [TS]

  that that people use that we have used [TS]

  that have [TS]

  I have overseas presses or printing or [TS]

  whatever you call it [TS]

  we wanted to go a different route this [TS]

  year and try something different and I [TS]

  really really really appreciate anyone [TS]

  from Europe or Asia or really anywhere [TS]

  other than North America that is bought [TS]

  one of these shirts because I know [TS]

  shipping is just out of control and I am [TS]

  sorry for that but look at it this way [TS]

  these shirts i am super proud of them [TS]

  and if it wasn't for Jay at cotton [TS]

  bureau they would not looking anywhere [TS]

  near as good [TS]

  you should see the the illustration [TS]

  Marco sent as a as a like save that yeah [TS]

  great example of patent hands yeah it's [TS]

  really just as an example of what we [TS]

  gave jay with regard to the to the three [TS]

  hands with three risks especially bad i [TS]

  mean I wasn't I would have done worse [TS]

  i'm not trying to like throw stones i [TS]

  would have done much worse job but that [TS]

  illustration with respect marco was [TS]

  pretty freakin bad and Jay made it [TS]

  because because the best of the best [TS]

  part about it is that he meticulously [TS]

  drew i'm assuming on the ipad ya go with [TS]

  like the pencil he meticulously drew his [TS]

  watch was like that's really cares about [TS]

  that haha and a hand with these [TS]

  misshapen mutant paddles it's like hands [TS]

  hands whatever I can't draw what you [TS]

  spent so long and that watch I'm going [TS]

  to see you like zooming in and carefully [TS]

  drawing the hands trying to draw your [TS]

  beautiful little Swiss whatever-the-hell [TS]

  watch it is and then the hands are just [TS]

  a mess [TS]

  first of all that is not a separate that [TS]

  is not like an exact representation of [TS]

  any of my watches and I didn't take that [TS]

  Wonder you took longer than expected [TS]

  draw the quote-unquote hands [TS]

  yeah well yeah so suffice to say it look [TS]

  in the show notes you can see marcos [TS]

  original illustration to j and we never [TS]

  told him pixel art or anything he just [TS]

  took that upon himself and did a just [TS]

  killer job with it so I again just to [TS]

  bring this back around and try to redeem [TS]

  myself summarizer in chief [TS]

  we are very sorry about the shipping [TS]

  costs we really truly are and we are [TS]

  super appreciative of anyone to buy [TS]

  shirts but particularly those overseas [TS]

  and because i know it is a big ask and [TS]

  and I wewe really thank you and [TS]

  hopefully if we do shirts again next [TS]

  year we'll have some different mechanism [TS]

  for doing this but no guarantees we'll [TS]

  see how it goes [TS]

  moving right along we should prob [TS]

  we do some follow-up place Jacobson I'm [TS]

  so sorry i had written in don't know if [TS]

  this was via Twitter or an email but [TS]

  they said after submitting a burst of 20 [TS]

  installs is submitting an iOS app a [TS]

  burst of 20 installs from California [TS]

  occurs this has happened recently but [TS]

  did not happen between october in [TS]

  February so perhaps there's some sort of [TS]

  automated testing going on when you [TS]

  submit to the appstore more than just [TS]

  like the checking for private api's and [TS]

  things like that [TS]

  more recent are more rigorous or perhaps [TS]

  more timely a automated testing that [TS]

  that's another theory is none that the [TS]

  following year that I heard a lot is [TS]

  that a lot of people under the [TS]

  impression i'm not sure if its founder [TS]

  not that the delays in review like you [TS]

  you know in the olden days several [TS]

  months ago you'd submit an application [TS]

  and take like a week or whatever to get [TS]

  through the review process and a lot of [TS]

  people think that's because Apple [TS]

  intentionally doesn't look at your [TS]

  application for a long time [TS]

  ah as a form of training to make you [TS]

  think I think twice before you submit [TS]

  don't waste our time submitting your [TS]

  application if you're not super duper [TS]

  sure that it's ready to go up and to [TS]

  teach you that lesson [TS]

  no matter when you submit we're just [TS]

  going to sit on and do nothing even if [TS]

  we don't have anything else to do even [TS]

  if we have a capacity we're just going [TS]

  to intentionally ignore your app for a [TS]

  week just to teach you a lesson to say [TS]

  see it's always going to take at least a [TS]

  week so don't submit in haste always you [TS]

  know make sure your i's are dotted and [TS]

  your T's are crossed that doesn't sound [TS]

  like something that makes sense to me [TS]

  for Apple as a business to do so maybe I [TS]

  don't again I don't know if these [TS]

  reports were based on inside information [TS]

  or testing or theories or whatever just [TS]

  feeling like it but that doesn't strike [TS]

  me as something that reasonable maybe if [TS]

  there was something like that it would [TS]

  be like we don't bother looking your [TS]

  application for the first four hours to [TS]

  give you a chance to think better out if [TS]

  you're actually submitted but i can't [TS]

  imagine them sitting out and not doing [TS]

  anything for a week so I'm still [TS]

  thinking that the decreased review times [TS]

  have to be the result of something that [TS]

  Apple's intentionally doing because they [TS]

  want the review times to be shorter not [TS]

  longer [TS]

  well I mean there was so this this past [TS]

  week on the talk show Rene Ritchie was [TS]

  the guests with John Gruber [TS]

  and renamed they were talking about this [TS]

  and and you could kind of tell that [TS]

  renee has information about this that he [TS]

  has heard in the best friend anyway he [TS]

  basically like suggest what the [TS]

  information is generally the content of [TS]

  what category it is but doesn't actually [TS]

  tell you anything to get him anybody [TS]

  else in trouble but it basically sounds [TS]

  like there was a significant management [TS]

  change in a preview likes in some kind [TS]

  of like and it wasn't this wasn't built [TS]

  ignore the app store but it might have [TS]

  been you know related to that in some [TS]

  way but like it wasn't that change but [TS]

  it was like some other changes that [TS]

  happened [TS]

  further down the line in a preview that [TS]

  basically got some people out of the way [TS]

  who would cause holdups and that is [TS]

  apparently the end and seeing some [TS]

  policies and that that is apparently [TS]

  what the result of this was if you read [TS]

  between the very very obvious lines that [TS]

  Ranger on the doctor last week so that I [TS]

  think is very interesting also I i agree [TS]

  with what you said i don't think they [TS]

  were ever like artificially delaying [TS]

  things necessarily 22 a week because if [TS]

  they were you would have never seen a [TS]

  review time less than a week and that [TS]

  wasn't true you know if you would look [TS]

  at the at the history on on that shine [TS]

  development site that was collecting all [TS]

  the stats for everybody that still is [TS]

  click on the stats everybody it [TS]

  fluctuated and sometimes it is sometimes [TS]

  it would go you know down to like six [TS]

  days five days and then go back up i [TS]

  think what instead was the case was you [TS]

  know we we know that Apple is very [TS]

  performance metric driven these days [TS]

  especially in the middle management [TS]

  levels so I think they just to find the [TS]

  performance metric to be you know ninety [TS]

  percent or more in a 95 and that you [TS]

  know whatever the percentages we want X [TS]

  percent of apps to be reviewed within a [TS]

  week and we consider that success so [TS]

  that whenever they would start getting [TS]

  you no way above that and would start [TS]

  that numbers are suffering [TS]

  maybe they would add more staff maybe [TS]

  they would she make changes to to get [TS]

  that number back down but it seemed like [TS]

  they considered that good enough for all [TS]

  this time and so a combination of maybe [TS]

  changing that opinion may be changing [TS]

  that metric something lower as well as [TS]

  whatever this this management change was [TS]

  that happened that i think is very [TS]

  plausibly what what went on here to [TS]

  cause a few times to do [TS]

  up from a week to less than day and [TS]

  don't have to be like a week [TS]

  specifically just the idea that there is [TS]

  there there's excess capacity that Apple [TS]

  could review your application but [TS]

  instead let's either decrease staffing [TS]

  or send people home early or like like [TS]

  they're intentionally like the delay is [TS]

  actually part of their policy within a [TS]

  tent that was that the theory that they [TS]

  like Apple Apple always could do this [TS]

  but they were intentionally not doing it [TS]

  on [TS]

  that's slightly different than they had [TS]

  a metric that meant people got to go [TS]

  home without staying for overtime as [TS]

  long as they hit X percent because i can [TS]

  imagine Apple being what it is they [TS]

  probably staff so the people have to [TS]

  work really really hard to get whatever [TS]

  the numbers were there not like [TS]

  overstaffing then giving them a logo [TS]

  letting the people go home at three [TS]

  everyday like it's not it's working [TS]

  right [TS]

  also the the idea of automated app [TS]

  review or or or adding another automated [TS]

  step of app review to you know before [TS]

  get to the humans that I think has a lot [TS]

  of Merit it's not an easy problem to [TS]

  solve but if you can have some kind of [TS]

  automation that basically just like try [TS]

  slight push a bunch of buttons in a nap [TS]

  Apple has said on a number of occasions [TS]

  that the most common cause of a project [TS]

  about projections is the app crashes [TS]

  during review so if they can automate a [TS]

  process where they just bring up bring [TS]

  up into the app and just like push some [TS]

  buttons and attempt to in an automated [TS]

  way basically guess how to use the app [TS]

  and just like navigate to different [TS]

  screens if they can cause a crash to [TS]

  happen during that everyone has to get [TS]

  to a human it can be adjusted right then [TS]

  go right back to the developer and say [TS]

  alright this this failed [TS]

  here try again and that that could also [TS]

  result in major time savings for the [TS]

  humans and therefore better throughput [TS]

  for the apt to get through that test [TS]

  cool so drew hannay wrote in they said [TS]

  among other things it's always been [TS]

  pretty complicated to understand what [TS]

  exactly swiping a nap out of recent [TS]

  actually does under the hood was this [TS]

  regard to android actually and right [TS]

  let's talk about the clear all button [TS]

  like wouldn't it be fun to clear all [TS]

  discovered of the pictures on your [TS]

  screen but did nothing to the process we [TS]

  are neither a mere android podcast by [TS]

  the way sorry material so anyway so they [TS]

  they said it's always been pretty [TS]

  complicated understand what exactly [TS]

  swiping a nap out of the recents [TS]

  actually does into the hood [TS]

  one important distinction on android is [TS]

  that the thing that shows up in your [TS]

  recent screen isn't actually a nap it's [TS]

  a task and remember on Android a nap can [TS]

  have multiple tasks in recent at the [TS]

  same time like having multiple google [TS]

  docs open at once when you swipe away a [TS]

  nap it finishes the task which tells the [TS]

  app that the user is done with that [TS]

  workflow and it doesn't need worry to [TS]

  worry about restoring that you I state [TS]

  if the app is doing black background [TS]

  worker has other open tasks its process [TS]

  would not be killed if there's no more [TS]

  open tasks the background job swiping [TS]

  away a nap will let the system note is [TS]

  the option of killing the process but it [TS]

  doesn't guarantee that it will clear all [TS]

  button shouldn't have a dramatic effect [TS]

  on system performance on Android since [TS]

  it usually won't mean that all that [TS]

  processes are killed but it does have [TS]

  the downside of losing any user state [TS]

  from their open tasks [TS]

  that's very interesting to me that is [TS]

  the way Android works because i didn't [TS]

  know most of that and it was also [TS]

  interesting to me how many people who [TS]

  seem to claim their seem to view [TS]

  themselves as you know nerds nerds [TS]

  tweeted about how oh yeah i do that too [TS]

  and that's great John which I thought [TS]

  was quite funny the only feedback that I [TS]

  saw that I thought was very interesting [TS]

  was people who said they wanted to clear [TS]

  it out not for like battery not for [TS]

  memory or anything like that which is [TS]

  because they didn't want that that that [TS]

  view that drawer if you will to have a [TS]

  bunch of things in it they just wanted [TS]

  it to be clean so they didn't have [TS]

  clutter there which still to me seems a [TS]

  little bit peculiar but makes a lot more [TS]

  sense than thinking oh this is going to [TS]

  save my battery or prevent something [TS]

  weird from happening but they changed [TS]

  the iOS policy be more like android [TS]

  android when you're when you're clearing [TS]

  these things it's explicitly not killing [TS]

  your application like if your [TS]

  application is running background jobs [TS]

  that lets them keep running right and it [TS]

  just gives it the audi also basically [TS]

  saying is when I relaunch that don't [TS]

  bring it back to exactly where else [TS]

  which is still kind of punitive because [TS]

  it like you're punishing people for like [TS]

  I don't like the visual clutter I want [TS]

  to get the rectangles away right and [TS]

  there is a punishment for that which is [TS]

  next time you want to that application [TS]

  it will remember where you left off [TS]

  is it will you know just bring it back [TS]

  to a fresh state or whatever it would be [TS]

  nice if all these operating systems i [TS]

  guess maybe either took the speaker way [TS]

  entirely in which case like you just [TS]

  deal with the clutter or I gave people a [TS]

  way to like [TS]

  like the the newer Android and like I [TS]

  don't know if it's hard coded 27 or you [TS]

  can adjust it but only show a certain [TS]

  numbers who never gets more cluttered [TS]

  than some small amount you know or just [TS]

  make it to get rid of the pictures and [TS]

  do nothing else right now men and as [TS]

  drew said there is still of course an [TS]

  android way to actually for script to [TS]

  kill things it's it's more deeply buried [TS]

  but it's there and as many people [TS]

  pointed out to us on iOS there is [TS]

  another way to force with applications [TS]

  besides flicking them up you can also do [TS]

  the hold down the power button thing but [TS]

  instead of swiping to turn off the phone [TS]

  you you hold down the home button or [TS]

  anyway there are lots of ways to force [TS]

  quit things but flicking up of the [TS]

  squares half of it is the force quitting [TS]

  habit and the the voodoo and [TS]

  superstition about that and the other [TS]

  half is just people like things to be [TS]

  neat and tidy and both of those things [TS]

  have I feel like detrimental effects on [TS]

  the experience of using the phone [TS]

  probably i would say more detrimental [TS]

  than the mental distress caused by [TS]

  having lots of rectangles but I guess [TS]

  that's something to worsen things around [TS]

  outside on their own our first part [TS]

  design is fracture fracture prints [TS]

  photos in vivid color directly on glass [TS]

  now you can hang these anywhere you can [TS]

  put them on desk and put them on walls [TS]

  you can give them as gifts these glass [TS]

  photo prints look amazing [TS]

  I have them all over our house now [TS]

  they're they're everywhere we have [TS]

  fractures everywhere now there they [TS]

  started out a few in the office then [TS]

  they became a lot in the office and they [TS]

  spread outside the office now there's a [TS]

  couple in the kitchen and one in the den [TS]

  i think there might even be some of the [TS]

  stairs now [TS]

  and of course you sent a lot of them as [TS]

  gifts as well fractures are great [TS]

  because these are photo prints on these [TS]

  nice thin lightweight pieces of glass [TS]

  and so they have this foam board backing [TS]

  so you can hang them the you know you [TS]

  can have a picture hangnail even comes [TS]

  in the box with the screw you need to [TS]

  hang into a wall [TS]

  I Morgan was a lightweight triangle nail [TS]

  doesn't matter these are nice and [TS]

  lightweight easy to hang easy to deal [TS]

  with it they ship them really nice they [TS]

  don't break and shipping and they just [TS]

  look fantastic you have this [TS]

  edge-to-edge print and vivid color of [TS]

  your photo and we can be it can be an [TS]

  illustration it can be a doodle it can [TS]

  be art it could be a photo from your [TS]

  phone or a photo from a good camera they [TS]

  all look good and we have them [TS]

  everywhere they make fantastic gifts and [TS]

  they're very very affordable price are [TS]

  just fifteen dollars for the small [TS]

  squares [TS]

  which are great for Instagram they're [TS]

  about the size of a CD case maybe if any [TS]

  of you are old enough to remember what I [TS]

  see case looks like they're they're [TS]

  roughly that size and and then of course [TS]

  you know that bigger sizes up that but [TS]

  you know that sighs just like 15 bucks [TS]

  and if you use our coupon code actually [TS]

  ATP 10 you can also get ten percent off [TS]

  your first order checking out today [TS]

  fracture and use code ATP 10 to [TS]

  get ten percent off thank you very much [TS]

  to fracture for sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah so there's been rumors about new [TS]

  macbook pros they're coming eventually [TS]

  first of all if you go back to the [TS]

  original article i believe it's it [TS]

  clarifies that its q4 of apples [TS]

  financial calendar they're coming which [TS]

  is july ok so the rumor is that that in [TS]

  in quote q4 this year which everyone [TS]

  interprets to mean October through [TS]

  December app will be releasing new [TS]

  macbook pros that are substantially [TS]

  redesigned so that they're you know [TS]

  they're going to be thinner gonna be [TS]

  like we're gonna have the new skylight [TS]

  cpus and they're going to have a few [TS]

  other interesting changes that we will [TS]

  talk about in a second so before you [TS]

  before you before you move on [TS]

  how confident are you about this whole [TS]

  queue for confusion because when I read [TS]

  this article my my overall sense of [TS]

  sadness was like q4 seriously how long [TS]

  have we been waiting for the macbook [TS]

  pros to get updated and now i have to [TS]

  wait until like the end of the year like [TS]

  the fall and winter time and then you [TS]

  telling me I don't know q4 is not that [TS]

  the financial q4 which is different [TS]

  makes me feel better but how sure are [TS]

  you about that because I have to know [TS]

  how to feel before you move it was good [TS]

  computers are going to be like I'm just [TS]

  repeating what other people said so [TS]

  maybe I'm not so sure I don't know now [TS]

  it now I'm doubting everything [TS]

  well anyway all i can say is that if if [TS]

  you if you people can't get one of these [TS]

  things in their hands until the end of [TS]

  the year that seems like that seems bad [TS]

  like I mean you can blame Intel for a [TS]

  certain amount of the delay but really [TS]

  like we can't get new macbook pros until [TS]

  the end of 2016 if I had told you in at [TS]

  the end of 2014 that there's not going [TS]

  to be new macbook pros until the end of [TS]

  yeah I don't like it especially [TS]

  i think it's it's made worse because of [TS]

  the fact that the the researchers long [TS]

  delay with Intel's cpus hear that [TS]

  they're currently shipping basically [TS]

  three year old cpu like that the guts of [TS]

  the macbook pro that you buy today [TS]

  there've been there was like the one [TS]

  minor update in mid-2015 but it was a [TS]

  very minor update it changed almost [TS]

  nothing about them and so basically [TS]

  you're buying like 23 year old hardware [TS]

  today as the curse of the pro label [TS]

  right this is you would put on a cpu [TS]

  ages to be three years old in the market [TS]

  I think that's the new rules [TS]

  yeah which I mean like cosmetics aside I [TS]

  mean you know we can talk about cosmetic [TS]

  in a minute but like just the fact that [TS]

  apple continues to sell really pretty [TS]

  ancient hardware by computing standards [TS]

  for so long now you know we talked about [TS]

  before like I know why some of these [TS]

  things are this way like I know that [TS]

  they that they generally wait until [TS]

  there's like a substantial cpu update [TS]

  from Intel and that those have been [TS]

  delayed in recent years but that has to [TS]

  change because I know they do care but [TS]

  when they let the hardware age for this [TS]

  long [TS]

  still at the top of the line it looks [TS]

  like they don't care anymore about it [TS]

  and I again I know they do care but this [TS]

  is how it looks to buyers this is how it [TS]

  looks in the market it looks like apples [TS]

  just ignoring the mac and letting these [TS]

  things language and don't know if that's [TS]

  true it looks that way to nerds to tech [TS]

  nerds other people don't even know what [TS]

  that is in them but I mean where its [TS]

  technical podcast know people do people [TS]

  do research you know you you gotta get [TS]

  give people credit they do their [TS]

  research and when people are looking to [TS]

  buy an Apple computer they go online and [TS]

  they look and they find things like the [TS]

  microwave buying guide says like all the [TS]

  stuff is three years old like like the [TS]

  people do their research they find stuff [TS]

  out they know anybody who see it finds [TS]

  the macrumors buying guide is pretty far [TS]

  over into the computer and everything I [TS]

  it's a factor i'm just saying like there [TS]

  is there is a whole other section of the [TS]

  population that never looks that stuff [TS]

  but in the grand scheme of things even [TS]

  if they don't know they're still even if [TS]

  you don't know or care about the age of [TS]

  the cpu you are still affected by [TS]

  because it's actually affects the useful [TS]

  lifetime of your computer because it is [TS]

  a three year old cpu whether you know it [TS]

  or not and so three years later using a [TS]

  six-year-old cpu whereas a battle kept [TS]

  up-to-date you would have more life left [TS]

  in your lap [TS]

  top then it's not as bad as be spending [TS]

  this vs SD where you're you know you [TS]

  sort of prematurely age when you realize [TS]

  that everyone else as these but you know [TS]

  maybe you can upgrade years or whatever [TS]

  cpus don't hate your laptop as bad as [TS]

  other things but it's all cumulative and [TS]

  basically what we're doing is here as as [TS]

  people knowledgeable about you know the [TS]

  platform and the products is we're [TS]

  judging the products how good the [TS]

  product is this and you can't judge it [TS]

  to be a particularly stellar product if [TS]

  the innards are really old and out of [TS]

  date and as you know as time marches on [TS]

  and competitor products get better [TS]

  innards for usually less or the same [TS]

  money you have to judge Apple's products [TS]

  more harshly and as people who other [TS]

  people might ask about computers you [TS]

  might say now is not a good time to buy [TS]

  the macbook pros with it they're going [TS]

  to be updated soon but if we've been [TS]

  saying that for two years at a certain [TS]

  point where like is I don't know if it's [TS]

  bad advice is good advice for trying to [TS]

  kind of predict the future like you [TS]

  should you buy this should not but once [TS]

  it's a three year old cpu even if [TS]

  numerical approach didn't come out for [TS]

  another year [TS]

  you can't really good conscience tell [TS]

  people you should buy this computer [TS]

  assisted great product you could say you [TS]

  should buy a computer because it [TS]

  basically your only choice if you want a [TS]

  mac laptop like you know the these [TS]

  laptops they sell and a whole bunch of [TS]

  them are better and compromise in a [TS]

  bunch of reasons but if you need a [TS]

  laptop now you got to get one but I can [TS]

  honestly say this is not actually a star [TS]

  product unlike say the 5k iMac which [TS]

  came out of the gate and I was you know [TS]

  good and all the the ways we expected to [TS]

  be good right oh yeah i mean like the 5k [TS]

  imac has been fantastic and that has [TS]

  like that is you know that originally [TS]

  came out a year and a half ago and then [TS]

  six months ago they made the updated [TS]

  version and it's it's a fantastic [TS]

  computer it is it has new up-to-date [TS]

  components it was updated one year after [TS]

  came out with even newer even more [TS]

  up-to-date components like that is a [TS]

  healthy release cycle [TS]

  yeah you know with regard to the date [TS]

  something to consider is and we're [TS]

  getting--we're going to get to some [TS]

  interesting new hardware tidbits in a [TS]

  second but what if one of those hardware [TS]

  tidbits requires a major release of OS [TS]

  10 and that isn't doesn't typically [TS]

  shift until fall so maybe it is the fall [TS]

  because they need the software and I [TS]

  know they'll be like a point release [TS]

  ahead for a lot of things but I [TS]

  I don't I don't think today's apple is [TS]

  delaying hardware for software all [TS]

  absolutely they are not except for [TS]

  except for new devices like the watch [TS]

  you know you're going to see the watch [TS]

  but for her laptops I'm saying even if [TS]

  they have a weird screen above the [TS]

  keyboard that we'll get to in a minute [TS]

  like they don't just work that into the [TS]

  old OS if they needed to ship them like [TS]

  they do that so many times where some [TS]

  boring old Mac is ready to ship but the [TS]

  the they would like ship with the new OS [TS]

  but it's not available with it so [TS]

  they'll end up checking that you did [TS]

  with OS versions like the net up [TS]

  shipping it with the with leopard or [TS]

  something when not leopard without with [TS]

  Tiger even though lever was about to [TS]

  come out and then people would get it by [TS]

  the time they get into the story was [TS]

  still have the old OS but then you get [TS]

  it and they would upgrade you for free [TS]

  or whatever like I don't think [TS]

  especially with i was 10 i don't think [TS]

  that's what they would be holding back [TS]

  this hard work and wait for the software [TS]

  unless there's some amazing new feature [TS]

  nobody here's here's the scenario here [TS]

  alright so the new laptop suppose it has [TS]

  touch ID like this report says and [TS]

  everyone says there's going to be Cirie [TS]

  in new OS 10 so suppose it has a touch [TS]

  ID button or surface or circle or [TS]

  something maybe the power button who [TS]

  knows somewhere there's a touch ID think [TS]

  they're right and then also somewhere on [TS]

  the keyboard in the in the effing row [TS]

  then look at which we'll get to in a [TS]

  minute in the afternoon maybe the Serie [TS]

  button there is no OS 10 version until [TS]

  the fall that will that will support [TS]

  those things in all likelihood the OS 10 [TS]

  version that comes out in the fall they [TS]

  can't bring those things forward or they [TS]

  won't bring those before they don't feel [TS]

  bring those things forward to get [TS]

  through it earlier because the OS 10 [TS]

  version the fall also has stuff that [TS]

  integrates with the iOS version coming [TS]

  in the fall and the iOS version coming [TS]

  in the fall is tied to the iphone [TS]

  hardware schedule and the entire company [TS]

  is dictated by the iphone hardware [TS]

  schedule know that seems plausible i [TS]

  forgot about touch ID thing without the [TS]

  secure Enclave the other thing like [TS]

  assuming there's touch anything that's [TS]

  probably a secure Enclave thing and [TS]

  that's yeah the screen i say no because [TS]

  the screenwriter driver for us but the [TS]

  touch ID and that security stuff [TS]

  yeah alright well that's that's crappy [TS]

  but that's life [TS]

  it's so that's right so we we've bounced [TS]

  off the outer atmosphere of the changes [TS]

  here but we should probably talk about [TS]

  it so it's gonna be really cute for [TS]

  probably it's probably gonna be like [TS]

  some timber October ok [TS]

  a fair enough so there's apparently [TS]

  going to be a replaced effing row where [TS]

  all the f1 f2 f3 etc keys are now little [TS]

  mini oled displays i'm not sure what to [TS]

  make about I feel like there was a [TS]

  keyboard that it would likely in the pre [TS]

  Kickstarter days but it was a [TS]

  Kickstarter kind of project where there [TS]

  was a keyboard that they wanted like the [TS]

  entire keyboard to have little mini [TS]

  displays on each key and the theory was [TS]

  which made a lot of sense to me it was [TS]

  the optimist keyboard was it ok by the [TS]

  art lib dems studio [TS]

  yes yes that's right you're absolutely [TS]

  right [TS]

  did that ever ship yeah it was delayed [TS]

  for like years i think and it would end [TS]

  up being very expensive but i think it [TS]

  did in fact ship and now there's like [TS]

  now like a bunch of keyboards now do the [TS]

  exact same thing here sits there [TS]

  yes so that the idea being that you know [TS]

  all of these different displays can be [TS]

  reprogrammed so think of sort of kind of [TS]

  having all the benefits of a keyboard on [TS]

  screen like on a phone or tablet but [TS]

  it's still a physical keyboard but you [TS]

  can reprogram with the key show and [TS]

  potentially what they do and so I can [TS]

  see maybe you have like a yellow on the [TS]

  current keyboards the f what is this fa [TS]

  f8 key is play pause well maybe it's [TS]

  play pause in finder or by default but [TS]

  maybe in other apps it does other things [TS]

  and it shows you right on the key like a [TS]

  little logo or or maybe even a logo in [TS]

  the word so as to what it does so I can [TS]

  see this being neat but I all I also i'm [TS]

  not sure that this is something I really [TS]

  need but I'm anxious to see what they're [TS]

  going to do with it what do you guys [TS]

  think Marco you you have tweeted about [TS]

  this and don't sound too enthusiastic is [TS]

  that fair to say well so if the the [TS]

  initial reporting of this rumor had it [TS]

  as the FN key role would be would [TS]

  disappear like the keys would no longer [TS]

  be there should be one screen one screen [TS]

  not keys with screens on the right [TS]

  exactly and that's the initial rumors [TS]

  that it would be 11 like one long strip [TS]

  of of oled screen and it would be [TS]

  touch-sensitive and so you would just [TS]

  like push it like it's like it's a [TS]

  skinny ipad screen basically and so that [TS]

  you know if that ends up being if this [TS]

  thing is real and if that ends up being [TS]

  the way it's done [TS]

  I don't like that very much at least on [TS]

  principle will see you know if they [TS]

  actually did something like that [TS]

  we'll see how it turns out a change your [TS]

  mind but I there was a discussion with [TS]

  about that particular rumor on clockwise [TS]

  this week today actually so that I think [TS]

  like not having physical buttons to push [TS]

  their on this keyboard that you're [TS]

  probably not looking at like yeah the [TS]

  the keys in the effing row are not that [TS]

  frequently pushed by most people but for [TS]

  the people who do frequently push them [TS]

  and that you know the other include some [TS]

  pretty important keys like escape which [TS]

  is like that your shortcut to cancel [TS]

  dialog boxes which is kind of frequently [TS]

  hit also frequently if your vm user [TS]

  among other things a lot of programs are [TS]

  for code completion so like there-there [TS]

  are and as you said like the media keys [TS]

  the volume up and down the play/pause [TS]

  the mute anybody who uses the the [TS]

  various like things that used to be [TS]

  called expose their now lumped into all [TS]

  these other things and i always use an [TS]

  11-4 show desktop like those things [TS]

  those are very frequently hit by by a [TS]

  good number of users i think and so if [TS]

  you remove those as keys at all and it's [TS]

  just this this touch surface that you [TS]

  need to reprint we need to look at it to [TS]

  see what you're hitting [TS]

  and you wouldn't get the physical [TS]

  feedback of a keypress to know that you [TS]

  did hit it correctly that is high i [TS]

  really hope we never get to that point [TS]

  because you know there's a reason why in [TS]

  all these all the effort that we've put [TS]

  into making things thinner and lighter [TS]

  and mechanically simpler and removing [TS]

  buttons [TS]

  there's a reason we still have keyboard [TS]

  buttons on computers even when you look [TS]

  at the macbook one and you see we barely [TS]

  have keyboard buttons but we still have [TS]

  keyboard buttons for reason and that is [TS]

  that when you are not looking when [TS]

  you're typing blind it is way easier and [TS]

  more accurate and faster and [TS]

  ergonomically better to have key [TS]

  switches that blew up and down but you [TS]

  can feel when you push so the idea of [TS]

  replacing this this trip with something [TS]

  but with no LED strip to to accomplish [TS]

  various goals you know that the benefits [TS]

  here would be you could make you can put [TS]

  stuff under that part [TS]

  to make because it would be thinner [TS]

  wouldn't need any kind of travel under [TS]

  it and presumably these the screen but [TS]

  it could be very thin in the keyboard [TS]

  row could be so you could shove more [TS]

  more of the computers guts or battery [TS]

  under that area so you have you save [TS]

  something there it would look cool maybe [TS]

  if you look tacky so you'd say that you [TS]

  know you gain something there you go [TS]

  banner ads on a towel it's not a [TS]

  Chromebook nevermind yeah yeah yeah so [TS]

  like there you could see the reason to [TS]

  this and and I should point also like [TS]

  any use for like status things and pc [TS]

  laptops have had displays it you know [TS]

  above the keyboard that show statuses of [TS]

  things for for a long time [TS]

  also on the covers and on the back on [TS]

  the side this BS was in every possible [TS]

  surface of pc laptops there was a [TS]

  windows feature they were touting like [TS]

  10 years ago they were like the new [TS]

  windows features like secondary screens [TS]

  on laptops and it's always supported and [TS]

  basically pc manufacturers go ahead [TS]

  figure out where it's a good idea to put [TS]

  a screen and you just try to sell things [TS]

  like this and r us will support them and [TS]

  doesn't seem like a really caught on [TS]

  that much [TS]

  yeah so anyway like Apple could do this [TS]

  that way with with replacing the FN key [TS]

  entirely different hero entirely with [TS]

  with a screen i hope they don't do it [TS]

  that way unfortunately we've heard from [TS]

  a certain tipster that that's not how [TS]

  they're going to do it that that the the [TS]

  tipster suggested that what he saw or [TS]

  around was not that version of it but [TS]

  was was instead a you still had the the [TS]

  physical buttons and the screen [TS]

  augmented the buttons in in some way so [TS]

  that I'm hoping that is correct and that [TS]

  i wouldn't mind if Apple does this right [TS]

  i think it's it's gonna be fine i really [TS]

  hope they don't get rid of the entire [TS]

  effing kero itself because I really want [TS]

  those keys to be there but I don't [TS]

  really care how they're labeled I got an [TS]

  idea you could sell an external keyboard [TS]

  like this and called the Apple extended [TS]

  keyboard and then finally happened with [TS]

  selling keyboard that is not a tiny [TS]

  little piece of crap with no inverted T [TS]

  arrow keys on it i don't get him started [TS]

  don't even get me started you're wrong [TS]

  sir some chatroom credit a windows side [TS]

  show was what the great name [TS]

  that's fantastic like the the external [TS]

  like the support for weird [TS]

  secondary displays on laptops and Nathan [TS]

  and pointed out that a man was trying to [TS]

  think it was a OS 10 lion came out with [TS]

  Renault Sport 10.7 point five because [TS]

  basically the the fully read and [TS]

  supporting a os10 wasn't out yet [TS]

  yeah and the old the app store came to [TS]

  10 610 68 ya think ya anyway so that's [TS]

  that's the FN key role I think we have [TS]

  that well coverlet of other other [TS]

  comments on that I think the idea of [TS]

  having a big like you know that the [TS]

  doctor says that I'm doing but just [TS]

  having a big flat screen like the the [TS]

  obvious reasons that's bad and you're [TS]

  one over them like they do you know you [TS]

  feel turkeys you want to feel the edges [TS]

  are it span but it's just one big flat [TS]

  screen but I have to think and we've [TS]

  joked about this so many times and [TS]

  talking about the macbook keyboard and [TS]

  everything like well why even have keys [TS]

  at all is going to be so little travel [TS]

  and part of the whole big sales pitch of [TS]

  the original iphone presentation was [TS]

  like I look at all these phones they [TS]

  have all these buttons on them but you [TS]

  kind of have to pick the buttons when [TS]

  you make the phone and you can't change [TS]

  after the fact but what if we made the [TS]

  whole screen of the phone the whole [TS]

  surface of the phone screen then you [TS]

  have to worry about with the buttons are [TS]

  because software we can change them all [TS]

  time and everybody said yeah all [TS]

  software but then how the hell can you [TS]

  feel the keys when you're trying to type [TS]

  on the thing because it's just a big [TS]

  flat screen we work that out as a [TS]

  society we now know how to type on a on [TS]

  flat screen phones [TS]

  it's a little bit different because the [TS]

  focal distance between looking at the [TS]

  keyboard and looking at the screen is a [TS]

  little bit better on a phone than it is [TS]

  on a laptop combination like you're kind [TS]

  of looking in the same place at the same [TS]

  distance as opposed to you know looking [TS]

  at the keyboard obviously touch type of [TS]

  starting to say I don't like this second [TS]

  i'm a touch typist I don't have to look [TS]

  at the keyboard [TS]

  I wonder what percentage of the world [TS]

  population looks at the keyboard when [TS]

  they type not on a phone i'm like a [TS]

  regular like laptop or desktop keyboard [TS]

  maybe it's pretty high maybe it's not I [TS]

  don't know but they still have the same [TS]

  focal distance question anyway I there [TS]

  was the final thing that I can't [TS]

  remember the source of this may be one [TS]

  of you will was it was an Aymara [TS]

  somebody did a survey of how fast can [TS]

  you touch type on a on ipad keyboard [TS]

  like a totally glass keyboard by age and [TS]

  they split up by age and the old people [TS]

  of course were horrendously bad touch [TS]

  typing on it and the younger you got the [TS]

  bigger the bars get up to the point [TS]

  where people were typing faster on the [TS]

  ipad keyboard then I can touch on a real [TS]

  type on a real keyboard i'm a terrible [TS]

  typist is not a big judge but they were [TS]

  into like you know over 60 words a [TS]

  minute this is cortex by the way I was [TS]

  the context yep [TS]

  yeah anyway um it makes me wonder about [TS]

  the future like it for now we're all [TS]

  glad if they do the separate buttons [TS]

  with LED things that looks cool we can [TS]

  feel the bottom edges and I know I don't [TS]

  look at the keyboard when I hit the [TS]

  Escape key and many other things like [TS]

  I'm not really a touch typist I don't [TS]

  type the right way but in practice I can [TS]

  program without looking at the keyboard [TS]

  even though my fingers are doing [TS]

  completely the incorrect thing down [TS]

  there but you were going to get old and [TS]

  retire and die and eventually I don't [TS]

  think it's too unrealistic to imagine [TS]

  that it's possible not guaranteed but [TS]

  possible that future future future apple [TS]

  laptops could either a not exist or be [TS]

  just have an entirely you know have an [TS]

  entire screen for the keyboard area [TS]

  because it would be thinner and it would [TS]

  be infinitely configurable and people do [TS]

  get used to them and people can actually [TS]

  get fast with them and it makes me a [TS]

  wonder about the future [TS]

  yeah i mean like i think my ideal setup [TS]

  here because I do recognize like the the [TS]

  advantages of having like dynamic [TS]

  softkeys where you mean maybe some of [TS]

  them the system defined as always having [TS]

  pretty much the same function things [TS]

  like you know volume controls and then [TS]

  some of them you know our application [TS]

  defined and applications consider when [TS]

  you have like photoshop or logic or [TS]

  whatever active then you can map these [TS]

  buttons to these commands and actually [TS]

  show them on there and that that makes [TS]

  it easier to learn the keyboard [TS]

  shortcuts and were these functions [TS]

  become more accessible and everything [TS]

  like that there is also do the fuzzy [TS]

  targets too just like the phone keyboard [TS]

  does that was another big selling point [TS]

  the phone keyboard like oh we know that [TS]

  the most likely in the English language [TS]

  the next letters has a much higher [TS]

  percentage chance to be you know in our [TS]

  than X so even though you're a little [TS]

  bit off of the the key that you're [TS]

  trying to hit will you know like the [TS]

  sort of fuzzy matching for where your [TS]

  figures tap and you might think oh I [TS]

  don't need that when the keys are [TS]

  full-size but maybe you do maybe it [TS]

  would help like there are things you can [TS]

  do with a completely software-controlled [TS]

  fully flat glass [TS]

  keyboard that you can do with a physical [TS]

  one will ride might be good but i like [TS]

  it to me I i think that the the happy [TS]

  medium here would be that you still have [TS]

  the physical buttons there that you know [TS]

  like because I mean if you're doing the [TS]

  entire keyboard not just the f0 if you [TS]

  need a higher keyboard i think your [TS]

  argument makes more sense even though i [TS]

  think i would hate that but you would [TS]

  have it would be so much more powerful [TS]

  as you could do things like well the [TS]

  entire left half is going to be a jog [TS]

  wheel instead of keys you know like you [TS]

  could do dynamic stuff ya know that [TS]

  that's what I'm saying that this is the [TS]

  entire thing would be just it would just [TS]

  be like be you know just like tapping on [TS]

  ipad is just one big flat piece of glass [TS]

  with all the not a bunch of individual [TS]

  keys like because it almost feels like a [TS]

  weird in-between State to have like the [TS]

  optimist keyboard where it's like we [TS]

  want the keys to be infinitely [TS]

  configurable they'll always be the same [TS]

  size and position right but I think in [TS]

  the context of a mac and you know [TS]

  especially a mac laptop wear whatever [TS]

  keyboard bass they ship in a mac laptop [TS]

  you're stuck with like you know I mean [TS]

  you could put other keyboards like on [TS]

  desks when you go park it on a desk but [TS]

  like when you are out in the world or [TS]

  using your laptop like on the couch or [TS]

  by itself with no additional hardware [TS]

  and that's like whatever keyboard that [TS]

  that hasn't it you don't have a choice [TS]

  so I think in the current context of [TS]

  like how people use macs and pcs like I [TS]

  think it's important to have a physical [TS]

  keyboard and I think you know looking at [TS]

  things like a macbook one where you know [TS]

  Apple goes to incredible lengths to make [TS]

  a really crappy physical keyboard but [TS]

  it's still better than typing on glass I [TS]

  I think Apple probably agrees that the [TS]

  Sun Apple agrees that you know in the [TS]

  mac landscape you need physical keys so [TS]

  if you're gonna have physical keys and [TS]

  you want this this key strip to be [TS]

  dynamic it makes sense to also keep [TS]

  those as physical keys because the way [TS]

  people are going to be using that [TS]

  keyboard is still going to be based on [TS]

  field for the most part and you're not [TS]

  really going to gain much you know if if [TS]

  you only have a thin strip on top of the [TS]

  keyboard to customize the software [TS]

  you're not really going to gain much by [TS]

  by having that be a flat touch surface [TS]

  that you wouldn't also have by having [TS]

  them be [TS]

  Silky's and you and you also want there [TS]

  will be no cost to it then to the user [TS]

  like there will be no downside if [TS]

  they're still physical keys you're gonna [TS]

  change the labels on them you know that [TS]

  then then there's no complaint there's [TS]

  no downside except cost and complexity [TS]

  but you know seems like apples okay with [TS]

  that i think that sounds fine and I [TS]

  think that that would that be my happy [TS]

  medium is sure if you're gonna do this [TS]

  at all [TS]

  make it like the optimist keyboard puts [TS]

  create put some kind of screens on each [TS]

  key or put a big screen below all the [TS]

  keys make them clear or something I [TS]

  don't know but that's yeah it'll be a [TS]

  screen HQ but like out for the big flat [TS]

  glass thing you can also cover the [TS]

  trackpad that point too i get an [TS]

  estimate of its a simplification that [TS]

  may improve your resistible eventually I [TS]

  if if the customer base eventually get [TS]

  to the point where they feel like we can [TS]

  sell this product and not too many [TS]

  people complaints of the really old [TS]

  people [TS]

  yeah i just want extended keyboard is [TS]

  that too much to ask that is not a thing [TS]

  anymore that apple doesn't really it's [TS]

  like they want the keyboard to be super [TS]

  small because they're all used on [TS]

  submarines or whatever i don't know i [TS]

  don't want the use cases for constantly [TS]

  making the keyboard not just their fine [TS]

  whatever I don't really care that much [TS]

  about that but narrower like am I using [TS]

  in coach class on United I don't know [TS]

  what why does it have to be so I've got [TS]

  this big desk here like like take off [TS]

  the numeric keypad fine but you can be [TS]

  inverted T I use I use those keys when i [TS]

  type and program also a quick comment on [TS]

  the fitness of keyboards here just first [TS]

  second articles are saying that this new [TS]

  macbook pro has a thinner keyboard that [TS]

  is like the macbook one keyboard this [TS]

  would normally freak me out except the [TS]

  tipster said many times in the chat that [TS]

  yes it is that general type of keyboard [TS]

  however it is much closer to the new [TS]

  standalone magic keyboard then the [TS]

  macbook ones total crap keyboard [TS]

  I've tried the magic keyboard in the [TS]

  store in okc you love yours right [TS]

  I cannot say enough good things about it [TS]

  with the exception I i agree out prefer [TS]

  the inverted T but I've learned to move [TS]

  on from it [TS]

  don't page down home and then don't miss [TS]

  those guys and being a normal place [TS]

  where you can find them really easily [TS]

  no really honestly that's what years [TS]

  this seriously you don't use page up and [TS]

  page down know you have the Marquis but [TS]

  i never use them you swipe on your silly [TS]

  little mice when I used windows [TS]

  as I used home and end of the time but [TS]

  now i use command left member and that's [TS]

  you know right now home and then doing [TS]

  what they're supposed to do not what [TS]

  they doing windows me what we're gonna [TS]

  do is I'm gonna beginning of the line of [TS]

  that home but world is that home at the [TS]

  top and the bottom thats command up in [TS]

  command down easy peasy [TS]

  so the point is so yeah I love the magic [TS]

  keyboard is my favorite keyboard that [TS]

  I've ever used and i have tried just [TS]

  about any of the popular keyboards or [TS]

  close variants thereof and I grew up on [TS]

  the IBM was at the IBM or something like [TS]

  that [TS]

  the the ridiculous chuckling springs you [TS]

  love him [TS]

  yeah and so I i'm not a keyboard snob [TS]

  and I don't really typically care for [TS]

  really loud clicking keyboards however i [TS]

  love the magic keyboard more than [TS]

  anything in the only flaw I see it is i [TS]

  do agree with you that I wish I had the [TS]

  inverted T so I love this thing [TS]

  yeah totally with you on that but [TS]

  overall like the magic keyboard i think [TS]

  it's fine like I i have no problem with [TS]

  that so if the tipster is right that the [TS]

  new macbook pro keyboard is much closer [TS]

  to that than to the macbook one keyboard [TS]

  that's fine [TS]

  however i would just generally to say [TS]

  like I there were a few people on [TS]

  Twitter who were kind of saying worrying [TS]

  things to me earlier about how think [TS]

  keyboard to keep getting thinner it is [TS]

  great to have laptops that are thin [TS]

  light but in general what matters more [TS]

  is the light not the thin and keyboards [TS]

  way almost nothing [TS]

  no matter how thick they are like the [TS]

  keyboard component of a laptop is mostly [TS]

  empty space and the key travel is all [TS]

  empty space of course the kids have to [TS]

  move up and down all matter is mostly [TS]

  empty space [TS]

  thanks John and I so happy you had an [TS]

  idea i was on the kick of like trying to [TS]

  stop email from people who had the idea [TS]

  the new the new level of well actually [TS]

  well actually all matters most and [TS]

  anybody gone i was gonna do it all right [TS]

  so anyway so yeah keyboards are [TS]

  extremely lightweight if you're talking [TS]

  about making laptops thinner and lighter [TS]

  again lighter matters more than thinner [TS]

  and if it gets to the point where you [TS]

  start sacrifice [TS]

  pricing the usability of the keyboard if [TS]

  you have to ship a crappy keyboard in [TS]

  order to make the laptop you know [TS]

  appealing visually to make it thinner [TS]

  from the side which is an angle with [TS]

  nobody ever looks at it i think that's a [TS]

  bad choice i think apple went too far [TS]

  with that but also harder to pick up by [TS]

  the way as they get better it gets [TS]

  harder to eventually it's like and I [TS]

  know they cut the edges and they make it [TS]

  but like at a certain point of you being [TS]

  thinner and thinner you don't have [TS]

  enough edge left to even come up and [TS]

  have like you put it down is like trying [TS]

  to pick a cooling-off very smooth table [TS]

  is hard to do [TS]

  yeah it also makes it harder to open the [TS]

  lid but anyway and that's will wait to [TS]

  anyway so like my point is i think if [TS]

  you are optimizing a laptop for thinness [TS]

  I think you're optimizing it for the [TS]

  wrong thing you should let them this [TS]

  follow from battery removals which will [TS]

  result in a more efficient cpus more [TS]

  efficient components things like that [TS]

  and and things like getting rid of the [TS]

  optical drive and you know make another [TS]

  command center but i don't think you [TS]

  should ever be at a point where you are [TS]

  making the keyboard hard to use or less [TS]

  economically friendly or otherwise [TS]

  horrible for the sake of Shaving like [TS]

  another millimeter off the case [TS]

  thickness because if the laptop is still [TS]

  very light and it's just like a [TS]

  millimeter thicker to accommodate better [TS]

  key switches that's fine [TS]

  like that that's an acceptable trade-off [TS]

  for a laptop because you want laptops to [TS]

  be light but you don't need them to be [TS]

  paper-thin and if you just like it we're [TS]

  not talking about a big difference here [TS]

  we're not talking about like going back [TS]

  to the old powerbook g4 thickness to [TS]

  have a decent keyboard you don't need [TS]

  that you can look at today you can look [TS]

  at the macbook air and you can look at [TS]

  the macbook pro today and you know [TS]

  personally what about to be in a few [TS]

  months you can make a great laptop with [TS]

  a great keyboard that's very very thin [TS]

  but i think the map one took it too far [TS]

  and and it sounds like with with the [TS]

  these nuru macbook pros if all the [TS]

  rumors are right if tipsters right i [TS]

  think we'll be okay again I think we [TS]

  will have really achieved a good balance [TS]

  here so I'm looking forward to seeing [TS]

  how it turns out i hope Apple does it [TS]

  right and in general like i have i've [TS]

  been you know very critical the macbook [TS]

  one even the people of it that's fine if [TS]

  you can if you love it [TS]

  good for you i'm happy for you in [TS]

  general I expect [TS]

  the new macbook pro to be awesome [TS]

  both 13 and 15 based on both what we've [TS]

  heard what's been reported and just [TS]

  based on you know Apple the things that [TS]

  really matter [TS]

  things like the iPhone Apple is really [TS]

  how they have a fantastic track record [TS]

  you know Apple has never made a bad [TS]

  iphone and similarly I don't think Apple [TS]

  has ever made a bad macbook pro there [TS]

  were there been a few that have been [TS]

  slightly imperfect but for the most part [TS]

  the macbook pro they just nail is it has [TS]

  such a good history such a good track [TS]

  record and they it has to because the [TS]

  macbook pro is like the workhorse of the [TS]

  entire industry like pretty much every [TS]

  like web developer most you know almost [TS]

  every Apple Developer tons people inside [TS]

  Apple tons of journalists tons of people [TS]

  tons of students like the macbook pro is [TS]

  such the workhorse of so many people [TS]

  they can't screw like they like it [TS]

  like legally they can't they just can't [TS]

  screw it up like and they know that [TS]

  Apple I think would not take lightly [TS]

  major changes to the macbook pro and [TS]

  their track record is so good that i am [TS]

  confident that this is going to be [TS]

  awesome and so I you know even though [TS]

  i'm skeptical of many of the things that [TS]

  Apple does these days I I definitely [TS]

  give him the benefit of the doubt that [TS]

  whatever we here but this new macbook [TS]

  pro that might sound a little bit weird [TS]

  it's probably going to be awesome [TS]

  yeah i agree i'm really looking forward [TS]

  to this to me i feel like i would just [TS]

  be thrilled if the next Mac Pro had a [TS]

  keyboard as close to the magic keyboard [TS]

  as possible and also an SD card slot [TS]

  that didn't rip my damn SD card reach [TS]

  switch SD card slot no no you get USB 3 [TS]

  ports USB c-type see connectors and [TS]

  that's all you like it mr. and probably [TS]

  right and I was being silly about the SD [TS]

  card thing but anyway I think an [TS]

  improved keyboard would be great i don't [TS]

  think the current keyboards are bad i [TS]

  just freaking love he imagined keyboard [TS]

  but i agree with you mark i think that [TS]

  that they have a great track record and [TS]

  I I can't see them releasing a dud and [TS]

  even though some of these rumors are [TS]

  making me scratching my head a little [TS]

  bit i'm really really amped to see these [TS]

  and also miserable because i'm not [TS]

  getting a new mac from for more work for [TS]

  another two years i think and I'm [TS]

  certainly not buying one for home so [TS]

  i'll be sad i'm still looking for [TS]

  reading air i know the 13 will be so the [TS]

  middle almost the air like but now that [TS]

  the air has been treated up from that of [TS]

  the 5k imac used to have the air connect [TS]

  with Thunderbolt Display not just the [TS]

  air is like rallying around the house [TS]

  and my daughter is smearing or you're [TS]

  recovered fingers on it and I'm [TS]

  routinely cleaning it anyway [TS]

  13 chair is such a great form factor for [TS]

  laptop is such a good machine the screen [TS]

  is crap but everything is about it is [TS]

  like a 2011 model right that screen is [TS]

  not good but everything else about it is [TS]

  just so nice and because it's a 21-month [TS]

  like five year old computer it looks [TS]

  great it and so now hopefully maybe [TS]

  these 13 will get down to the point [TS]

  where it's getting close that because [TS]

  there haven't been updated and he said [TS]

  the pros the workforce is the workhorse [TS]

  of like you know professional people are [TS]

  people who need some sort of computing [TS]

  power to their job but the air is worthy [TS]

  sort of computing for the the lap the [TS]

  apple laptop for the rest of us where [TS]

  you're not going to be compiling stuff [TS]

  you just want to like browse the rebbe [TS]

  web and write papers for school or [TS]

  whatever its it was such a great student [TS]

  computers such a great computer people [TS]

  don't have particularly demanding needs [TS]

  a real a real high point they're going [TS]

  to look back on the the great max the [TS]

  the 13 chair that that design that genet [TS]

  if not the particular interests but like [TS]

  when they redesigned the case and [TS]

  everything [TS]

  yeah it was a great computer that's the [TS]

  zone and so like that the pros the first [TS]

  threatening ones were pretty impressive [TS]

  and now they're going to go super thin [TS]

  and just have the USBC port on the side [TS]

  and just shave off all those things [TS]

  these have the potential to be really [TS]

  great long-lasting computers to remember [TS]

  the that the touch ID and the weird you [TS]

  know screen keys and stuff also has the [TS]

  potential to have them go wrong until [TS]

  they sort that out but like you said [TS]

  like they're surely they've had enough [TS]

  time to work out these kinks and this is [TS]

  the type of thing that could have been [TS]

  working on for a long time so [TS]

  I i have some confidence that they're [TS]

  going to be good as well although I have [TS]

  to admit when I saw you Marco tweeting [TS]

  about the thin keyboard thing I thought [TS]

  you were talking about their external [TS]

  desktop keyboard that also keep getting [TS]

  thinner for even advised us that even [TS]

  more mysterious reasons not just like [TS]

  you know I talked about the with before [TS]

  with the United but they're also getting [TS]

  like thinner as in lower to the desk is [TS]

  that is wasting away so that is going to [TS]

  give you a bunch of key caps and you [TS]

  throw them on your desk [TS]

  it's not really in Apple's demands I [TS]

  mean one of the reasons i don't use [TS]

  their desktop keyboard is that the [TS]

  ergonomics horrible on the men and I I [TS]

  need something better economics to [TS]

  prevent RSI problems in their defense [TS]

  though the worst thing about ergonomics [TS]

  of most desktop keyboard is when the [TS]

  back is higher than the front that you [TS]

  know the the former tilt and that's [TS]

  terrible for ergonomics and by the way [TS]

  anybody listening if you if you have the [TS]

  feet slipped up on the back so that your [TS]

  keyboard is tilted even more for God's [TS]

  sake flip those feet down put something [TS]

  under the front to make it level [TS]

  yeah there's a reason why you look at [TS]

  natural keyboards now let the microsoft [TS]

  sculpt and everything [TS]

  there's a reason why they come with this [TS]

  big riser on the front that lifts the [TS]

  front of so it's actually tilting away [TS]

  from you and everyone thinks it looks [TS]

  weird it does the first time you see it [TS]

  but way better for ergonomics there's a [TS]

  reason for that anyway you know it if [TS]

  Apple makes their keyboards thinner it [TS]

  actually reduces the tilt inherently and [TS]

  so it it's slightly improve the [TS]

  ergonomics they can still be totally [TS]

  level like I have a really old like [TS]

  translucent plastic apple USB keyboard i [TS]

  saw in the Attic when I was cleaning [TS]

  stuff up those were pretty much [TS]

  perfectly flat as well although they did [TS]

  have stupid feet in the back but anyway [TS]

  you can make a keyboard that is level it [TS]

  just doesn't have to be level and also [TS]

  the thickness of three credit cards [TS]

  because again i fear that they're going [TS]

  to get to the point where they're [TS]

  starting to sacrifice travel on the [TS]

  desktop models like what-what space are [TS]

  you saving the airspace above my desk [TS]

  you want to save two millimeters of [TS]

  airspace pleased with wise and height [TS]

  wise not going out to the thing that and [TS]

  I understand the part sharing with [TS]

  laptops like that's why I think about it [TS]

  could it could literally be the same [TS]

  exact part i haven't seen the magic [TS]

  keyboard i can't tell if it's actually a [TS]

  laptop for the part but anyway I [TS]

  understand the the economies of scale [TS]

  going on here [TS]

  I just think that the desktop keyboards [TS]

  and also the little edges around people [TS]

  like sometimes it's hard to pick up my [TS]

  keyboard [TS]

  remove it because how to help you pick [TS]

  it up because the key caps go right to [TS]

  the edge it's it's a little bit extreme [TS]

  it's a little bit we're getting into the [TS]

  realm of a form over function we're like [TS]

  what we have to do with the keyboard i [TS]

  want to type on it sometimes you have to [TS]

  move it around [TS]

  I don't really care if it looks like a I [TS]

  mean I do care if it looks like a [TS]

  beautiful piece of art but when that [TS]

  looks starts to compromise the basic [TS]

  things I do is my keyboard including [TS]

  occasionally picking them up or moving [TS]

  them around that silly but but that is [TS]

  today's apple like that the desktop [TS]

  keyboards I mean if there's ever a thing [TS]

  that they make that that that form over [TS]

  function wins its hits the it's like the [TS]

  desktop and peripherals because the the [TS]

  function part doesn't really matter [TS]

  anybody who cares about the ergonomics [TS]

  or the size of the layout of the key [TS]

  switches are the thickness of your [TS]

  desktop keyboard there is to use a [TS]

  different keyboard and this is like [TS]

  exactly the kind of area where Johnny is [TS]

  going to come in and be like all right [TS]

  well this needs to look even thinner and [TS]

  even sleeker so that looks great all of [TS]

  our press shots into the imac looks [TS]

  great and and they look great in the [TS]

  stores and the boxes can be smaller and [TS]

  all the stuff like that [TS]

  this is exactly the kind of area where [TS]

  Apple would absolutely go nuts and and [TS]

  sacrifice functionality for form and the [TS]

  the cost of that isn't so big it's way [TS]

  worse than laptops dress up like you [TS]

  you're kind of stuck with the keyboard [TS]

  that any laptop so that that I think is [TS]

  is the bigger area we have to watch out [TS]

  for and I do feel like even though i [TS]

  just got on praising apple for how often [TS]

  they're probably going to be with this I [TS]

  do feel like without that I'm kind of [TS]

  always on edge trying to like defend and [TS]

  hold onto things on on apple products [TS]

  that that work well or are economically [TS]

  friendly because i feel like i'm always [TS]

  battling Jony ive on like no you please [TS]

  stop making things worse or harder to [TS]

  use or more slippery or what you know [TS]

  with work the apple TV remote he can't [TS]

  even tell which way is up and your [TS]

  present things wrongly please like [TS]

  please Johnny stop stay away from my [TS]

  things you're standing off all the [TS]

  things that make them usable like and i [TS]

  am a little bit worried about that that [TS]

  angle of apple kind of taking over more [TS]

  than it should [TS]

  and.and that I think long-term both [TS]

  present and into the near future i think [TS]

  that is a major concern that many of us [TS]

  should have about Apple that real world [TS]

  usability and ergonomics it seemed to be [TS]

  a very low priority an ever-shrinking [TS]

  one that they're happy to borrow from to [TS]

  make gains in fitness and appearance or [TS]

  they just forgotten how to do it but [TS]

  like the keyboard i have the Apple [TS]

  extended alone keyboard i bought many of [TS]

  these I've gone through a couple of them [TS]

  actually breaking the keys but maybe [TS]

  doesn't speak to the reliability of the [TS]

  keyboard considering use the Apple [TS]

  extended to four years and the only way [TS]

  I broke it is because i drop my [TS]

  pocketknife off-the-shelf onto it and [TS]

  snapped off one of the function keys but [TS]

  i like the Apple extended aluminum [TS]

  keyboard in every aspect except for the [TS]

  fact that the stupid top row function [TS]

  keys is too close to the number keys and [TS]

  is not full size but every other aspect [TS]

  of it [TS]

  I like that it's thin and small and [TS]

  doesn't have any excess room it doesn't [TS]

  have any excess sort of trimming and [TS]

  stuff around it could be a little bit [TS]

  flattered as I still up a little bit but [TS]

  it is i think the a reasonable [TS]

  interpretation of the minimalist flat [TS]

  thing i like the fact that the keys have [TS]

  low effort because that helps my RSI [TS]

  then i can type on the underground [TS]

  keyboard so like if you if given the [TS]

  choice of you can have any keyboard in [TS]

  the world with your new mac this is [TS]

  still the one that I would pick because [TS]

  it's still basically my favorite [TS]

  keyboard out of all the ones that i've [TS]

  tried you know and I can't use my Apple [TS]

  extended to anymore but they went a [TS]

  little bit father the next keyboards [TS]

  like well the other one had a little bit [TS]

  of a rim around the edge so you could [TS]

  pick it up can we shave that off and the [TS]

  answer is yes we can and we put it [TS]

  directly down to the ground instead of [TS]

  having a lip where you can get your [TS]

  fingers underneath it well we can do [TS]

  that too [TS]

  and can you take off all those useful [TS]

  keys that people use sometimes yep they [TS]

  can do that too and I'm set but you [TS]

  still buy this one by the way like you [TS]

  can still buy the extended keyboard with [TS]

  your new computer it's just it's like [TS]

  you feel like you're getting the last [TS]

  generation think you can buy this shiny [TS]

  new keyboard that in case he has that he [TS]

  loved so much for these cookies switches [TS]

  that I i like to i tried the apple store [TS]

  i think they're great to or you can get [TS]

  this old keyboard that silly people use [TS]

  with the extra keys on [TS]

  yeah I one of the things i love about [TS]

  this keyboard is that it is so darn flat [TS]

  now I wouldn't say I is verse was [TS]

  seeking out a keyboard that's flat but [TS]

  now that it's in front [TS]

  of me I like that it's so flat because i [TS]

  feel like it works better for me or [TS]

  economically now maybe that's wrong [TS]

  maybe I'm maybe I'm crazy but it feels [TS]

  good to me and and i like that if i [TS]

  decide to take my ipad on a trip for [TS]

  example and I don't want to take my [TS]

  full-on 15-inch work computer [TS]

  I just throw this keep [TS]

  I just throw this keep [TS]

  bored in my bag and it's like it's not [TS]

  even there it's then it's light and it's [TS]

  my favorite keyboard i have ever used so [TS]

  I I know I talk about a constant but i [TS]

  cannot say enough good things about this [TS]

  keyboard is a great portable keyboard [TS]

  but you know and I'm not buying it for [TS]

  portable environments like this is the [TS]

  one is going to be attached and by the [TS]

  way i like when they're attached with [TS]

  the wire because again i have a place [TS]

  for the wire to go and I don't need to [TS]

  deal with bluetooth and I don't need to [TS]

  deal with batteries because it's never [TS]

  go anywhere it's always gonna be plugged [TS]

  into my computer it'll be fine [TS]

  hey I like I and the flatness again is [TS]

  not an innovation this particular [TS]

  keyboard because they like said that has [TS]

  been flat keyboard for apple and others [TS]

  forever and ever and ever [TS]

  without any feet without anything that [TS]

  it's nice and level it's the talking in [TS]

  of the edges and the bringing of the [TS]

  edges straight down to the table and and [TS]

  the trimming off of the keys and me not [TS]

  having a space between the numbers in [TS]

  the function keys because that would [TS]

  make the keyboard ever so slightly [TS]

  bigger it's like yeah alright if you're [TS]

  making a portable keyboard i see that [TS]

  trade-off you wanted to fit in your [TS]

  backpack every every millimeter counts [TS]

  it's gonna be on my desk every [TS]

  millimeter does not count in the same [TS]

  way and it just strikes me as a bad [TS]

  trade-off we're all sponsors night by [TS]

  freshbooks freshbooks created cloud [TS]

  accounting software so ridiculously [TS]

  simple to use there were five million [TS]

  small business owners are now officially [TS]

  feeling the freshbooks effect there's a [TS]

  lot more smiling and way less stress [TS]

  when it comes to dealing with [TS]

  administration paperwork invoicing and [TS]

  getting paid now invoicing is what made [TS]

  fresh book so big and they still do it [TS]

  the best reason freshbooks to create [TS]

  invoice literally takes a grand total of [TS]

  about 30 seconds no formulas no [TS]

  formatting perfectly crafted invoices [TS]

  every time and you can let people pay [TS]

  you online right through freshbooks [TS]

  through payment gateways to various [TS]

  options that you can you can enable and [TS]

  you can pick if you want your clients [TS]

  can pay you right online you get paid [TS]

  faster they actually have data to [TS]

  support this when it's easier to pay you [TS]

  you get paid faster you they also offer [TS]

  a mobile card reader so if you do work [TS]

  in person you can actually have with all [TS]

  three freshbooks alter the invoicing [TS]

  system they have this mobile carburetor [TS]

  and you can actually accept credit cards [TS]

  to get paid in person get paid even [TS]

  faster if people are slow to pay your [TS]

  invoices they have overdue payment [TS]

  reminders so you don't have to have that [TS]

  awkward conversation you can have fresh [TS]

  habit for you [TS]

  these are configurable [TS]

  course you can configure the message you [TS]

  configure when it's sent who was sent to [TS]

  and going beyond friend but going beyond [TS]

  the invoicing that they started with [TS]

  they also have expense tracking so you [TS]

  can track the receipts you can have an [TS]

  import transaction from your bank [TS]

  automatically that are eating whether to [TS]

  receipt or not you can have an import [TS]

  all transactions it can generate expense [TS]

  reports for you can integrate that whole [TS]

  thing into the invoicing system it is so [TS]

  advanced just and you can use the fresh [TS]

  books app take pictures of receipts that [TS]

  you get in real-life on your mobile [TS]

  device and you can let freshbooks pretty [TS]

  much handle the rest [TS]

  this is such an advanced platform this [TS]

  is only a very limited part of what it [TS]

  can do because all the teachers don't [TS]

  fit in a two-minute add read so check it [TS]

  out today yourself to feel the full [TS]

  force of the freshbooks effect totally [TS]

  free for 30 days just go to fresh [TS] / ATP and please enter ATP and [TS]

  how did you hear about us section so [TS]

  they know for sure that you came from [TS]

  here once again free trial 30 days go to [TS] slash ATP thanks a lot so [TS]

  you had written a post Marco about [TS]

  whether or not apples kind of allowing [TS]

  themselves to get left behind on this [TS]

  whole intelligent assistant thing can be [TS]

  talking with the microprocessor more [TS]

  instead I think we've been that's death [TS]

  this morning so I I don't necessarily [TS]

  need to get into the article too much [TS]

  but I thought it was reasonable [TS]

  I'm and then curiously rule day or two [TS]

  later there's a article on the [TS]

  information about Apple's opening up [TS]

  Siri and it's developing an echo rival [TS]

  interesting i mean this is this could be [TS]

  a coincidence [TS]

  it could be a controlled leaking [TS]

  response i have no idea it's probably a [TS]

  coincidence if I you know it can be [TS]

  realistic here but yeah I mean so I mean [TS]

  I don't want to go too far into the just [TS]

  a miracle was this is another one this [TS]

  one of these situations where like I [TS]

  write something critical critical about [TS]

  Apple my blog and just goes everywhere [TS]

  this time I don't feel bad about it this [TS]

  time they look with what the whole [TS]

  functional high ground thing I mean we [TS]

  felt bad about it because it you know AI [TS]

  I did not expect that all I've never [TS]

  seen that kind of response before so it [TS]

  was more it was more of a shock [TS]

  be the bigger [TS]

  the reason is that I just didn't write [TS]

  very well I didn't do a very good job of [TS]

  writing it and so I was kind of [TS]

  embarrassed that a lot of people [TS]

  including like people at Apple saw this [TS]

  and it wasn't very good work that's why [TS]

  I I kind of had a hard time back then [TS]

  with the with the high ground thing but [TS]

  this time I i wrote this piece knowing [TS]

  that there was a chance that it might [TS]

  spread although i didn't expect the [TS]

  spread of God at all but knowing there [TS]

  was a chance it might spread and I wrote [TS]

  it very carefully much more carefully [TS]

  than the high ground thing and I think [TS]

  what came out I I stand by the only [TS]

  thing that I regret it was the idea [TS]

  originally titled it avoiding [TS]

  blackberries fate that kind of implied [TS]

  that if apple doesn't make this big [TS]

  shift they will definitely fail the way [TS]

  blackberry did exactly and that was not [TS]

  my point that I was trying to make so so [TS]

  I retitled it about a day in something [TS]

  more more closer to what I actually [TS]

  meant the rest of it I i totally stand [TS]

  by and I don't regret it at all and so I [TS]

  feel pretty good about it and it did [TS]

  spread way further than I thought and [TS]

  many of the of the crappy rewrites of it [TS]

  have have been crappy Business Insider [TS]

  did what they always do and that's fine [TS]

  i said there was interested to the fish [TS]

  meat stick video and and you know it all [TS]

  the sensational news sites and all the [TS]

  crappy TV people and all the other [TS]

  crappy sites there they're gonna do with [TS]

  the what they're going to do and all [TS]

  like all i need is to be comfortable [TS]

  myself in standing by what i wrote me [TS]

  knowing myself that I did good work that [TS]

  I wrote it right that i express myself [TS]

  properly in the way I wanted to play [TS]

  myself you will not get that reference [TS]

  at all high and i'm happy with what i [TS]

  wrote and so what i wrote basically [TS]

  which I realize now i forgot to say at [TS]

  the beginning of this giant ramp sorry [TS]

  yeah I don't stand by this giant right [TS]

  now but so what you know whatever it was [TS]

  basically i think at you know Google and [TS]

  Amazon and Facebook and as many people [TS]

  pointed out which I didn't [TS]

  microsoft there all day making these [TS]

  huge developments in [TS]

  in a I like big data services so things [TS]

  like you know obviously in the old days [TS]

  things like search and maps and [TS]

  directory stuff and then now in recent [TS]

  recent times these like kinda like [TS]

  assistant virtual assistants chatbot [TS]

  things like Syrian Cortana and google [TS]

  now and stuff like that and that the [TS]

  Amazon echo and the google home people [TS]

  thing and whatever you know whatever [TS]

  Amazon Apple and Facebook everybody [TS]

  we're going to put next if the industry [TS]

  shifts to prioritize the functionality [TS]

  of these virtual assistants of this kind [TS]

  of big data AI problem as like the [TS]

  primary thing people care about are the [TS]

  primary functionality people want Apple [TS]

  is not in a good place for that you know [TS]

  right like it and I made the blackberry [TS]

  now he's like you know when when the [TS]

  iphone came out blackberry was on top of [TS]

  the world and they were doing really [TS]

  well the reason blackberry was so [TS]

  screwed is because when Apple came out [TS]

  they changed the game completely to to [TS]

  raise everyone's expectations of what [TS]

  phones could and should do in areas that [TS]

  RIM you know they didn't they could not [TS]

  catch up at that point if they wanted to [TS]

  because like Apple had moved the [TS]

  goalposts into this area where ok now to [TS]

  be competitive you need to have a [TS]

  desktop class operating system this is [TS]

  this incredibly complex manufacturing [TS]

  pipeline to make these incredibly [TS]

  precise high-quality devices this [TS]

  massive store ecosystem of these credit [TS]

  cards on file and all these developer [TS]

  tools and the ecosystem of computers [TS]

  around women's and like all this crazy [TS]

  stuff that like you know that the iphone [TS]

  was all the stuff that enabled the [TS]

  iphone with assets that Apple had been [TS]

  building up for like a decade before [TS]

  that no matter what blackberry did that [TS]

  point because they weren't building that [TS]

  kind of assets for a decade they were [TS]

  not going to catch up and in and the [TS]

  writing was on the wall soon as a phone [TS]

  as soon as Steve showed the iphone and [TS]

  in early early 07 before you can blow up [TS]

  with the appstore year later the [TS]

  writing's on the wall blackberry because [TS]

  they like the gap was too wide [TS]

  they would not be able to catch up to [TS]

  what the iphone had now redefined [TS]

  smartphones to be a look now and and you [TS]

  see these services that [TS]

  you know like Apple started at this [TS]

  whole thing with Cirie and yes I know [TS]

  Google is doing voices before that yes [TS]

  thank you but you know apple kind of [TS]

  started like that the virtual assistant [TS]

  revolution with Siri in 2011 [TS]

  yes 11 it has it has progressed it has [TS]

  gotten better has gotten more advantages [TS]

  added more languages around the world is [TS]

  not an easy thing to do but ultimately I [TS]

  series still feels like a first [TS]

  generation version of this product while [TS]

  the competitors are all moving past that [TS]

  in in certain attributes so you look at [TS]

  like the Amazon echo and the echo only [TS]

  supports basically us english and only [TS]

  is useful to people in the US for most [TS]

  of its functionality but the [TS]

  functionality it does for those us [TS]

  english speakers it does that stuff [TS]

  better and more reliably and faster than [TS]

  Cirie does most of the time I look at [TS]

  you know google is going to be way [TS]

  better at international support way [TS]

  better different languages and Google's [TS]

  also doing a lot of this stuff better [TS]

  faster more reliably now with but [TS]

  they're good but they're google now [TS]

  stuff and all the other Android things I [TS]

  don't understand you know it's it's hard [TS]

  to look at this and to see ya if if if [TS]

  we all start using these virtual [TS]

  assistants as our primary interfaces [TS]

  like in two years or whatever like is [TS]

  Apple really gonna catch up to what [TS]

  Google is doing and what they will have [TS]

  in two years I don't think so because [TS]

  Apple Apple is not good at big data [TS]

  problems you know number one example [TS]

  this is the App Store search you could [TS]

  argue okay well maybe that's like one [TS]

  department that has these technical [TS]

  burdens or whatever else fine maybe [TS]

  that's true okay what about Cirie we're [TS]

  really matters a lot [TS]

  serie again it's it's kind of a genuine [TS]

  product and a gentoo world now and so it [TS]

  is possible we've we've heard lots of [TS]

  rumblings that apple will the Apple has [TS]

  made some some key acquisitions and [TS]

  investments over the last year too and [TS]

  that you know this wdc they're going to [TS]

  come out some major and it's going to be [TS]

  amazing and that might be true but just [TS]

  as i said earlier that Apple has an [TS]

  amazing track record [TS]

  of macbook pro updates Apple has a [TS]

  really terrible track record of big data [TS]

  AI problem updates [TS]

  youyou hero we've improved Syria we [TS]

  ordered we've now add these capabilities [TS]

  are now it's better now you can do this [TS]

  and and yet somehow it still reliable [TS]

  and consistent and sometimes not that [TS]

  smart [TS]

  Apple has the opposite problem here of [TS]

  any hype that's about like what Apple [TS]

  might do it everybody c22 to all of a [TS]

  sudden show us that they're like an [TS]

  amazing AI and big data company i don't [TS]

  believe that for a second I i would love [TS]

  to be proven wrong [TS]

  I really hope I'm proven wrong because I [TS]

  would so much rather have apple do well [TS]

  this stuff then have to switch on my [TS]

  garbage to Android but I don't have a [TS]

  lot of confidence in apple doing this [TS]

  stuff because their track record is not [TS]

  very strong so there was an interesting [TS]

  article that I saw today and i'm [TS]

  assuming was posted a notice yesterday [TS]

  on pixel envy and it was titled meet [TS]

  vocal like you look like he was a small [TS]

  camera based startup once in 2011 that [TS]

  specialized natural speaker recognition [TS]

  conversational interactions from The [TS]

  Times article this is x UK put published [TS]

  in june blah blah blah this is a quote [TS]

  from one of their one of their employees [TS]

  one of our key projects is to develop a [TS]

  car that can talk to you like in Knight [TS]

  Rider awesome so these people got [TS]

  acquired by apple in october and so [TS]

  there's a quote by someone who's been [TS]

  following this if Apple utilizes just a [TS]

  small subset of the technology developed [TS]

  by vocal likey we will see a far more [TS]

  advanced serie however I'm quite certain [TS]

  that the amazing work of Tom Gruber will [TS]

  also be utilized additionally the [TS]

  amazing technology from emollient [TS]

  perception and a number of other [TS]

  unannounced and future Apple [TS]

  acquisitions will also become a big part [TS]

  of apples AI future so perception [TS]

  apparently was actually percept do which [TS]

  was a photo classification startup which [TS]

  reminds me a lot of google photos which [TS]

  i've also been talking about constantly [TS]

  lately because it is amazing so you put [TS]

  all this together in this this is hardik [TS]

  which is very short ends with so who's [TS]

  excited for WWDC and I just think it's [TS]

  interesting you know they've been making [TS]

  a lot of acquisitions that are right in [TS]

  the right in this wheelhouse and we [TS]

  don't know what they've been up to but [TS]

  hopefully there's something there I hope [TS]

  that's right i mean again like I really [TS]

  hope I'm wrong on this [TS]

  I really hope apple just suddenly comes [TS]

  out and is really good at this stuff [TS]

  unfortunately I don't think it works [TS]

  that way i don't think this is the kind [TS]

  of thing you can do quickly one thing [TS]

  that's worth investigating [TS]

  is that they made acquisitions like this [TS]

  and like the Syrian people [TS]

  why did what is people not stick around [TS]

  you know like is there something about [TS]

  Apple's culture that order or their [TS]

  organizational structure or the [TS]

  departments that these people are hired [TS]

  to work in what like why don't they [TS]

  stick around [TS]

  why why does Apple need to go buying [TS]

  people in order to get this kind of [TS]

  talent in the company like is this a [TS]

  problem and are there other ways to fix [TS]

  this other problem to be solved first I [TS]

  don't know I don't know enough about how [TS]

  they work internally to really to have [TS]

  good insight into this but what I can [TS]

  see it from the outside and again like I [TS]

  mean every time anybody criticizes [TS]

  anything or have some kind of fear about [TS]

  apple or or tries to you know it was [TS]

  pessimistic about apple in the [TS]

  springtime everyone always says oh just [TS]

  wait i'll just wait you're gonna see [TS]

  this is it this is so stupid for you to [TS]

  be thinking about this now because just [TS]

  wait till you really see but you know [TS]

  what everybody see is not like Santa [TS]

  Claus like it doesn't it's not magic [TS]

  they're not going to solve every problem [TS]

  that everybody wanted to solve in one [TS]

  keynote and that's not realistic and [TS]

  that you know if you know people say [TS]

  that I like I am naive for thinking [TS]

  apples not working on this stuff I think [TS]

  thinking apples gonna magically solve [TS]

  everything in two weeks is naive i think [TS]

  we can look at what Apple services are [TS]

  today and what they have been these kind [TS]

  of things like Siri things like search [TS]

  and relevancy and predictive inputs for [TS]

  things like proactive on the phones and [TS]

  everything we see what an apple news [TS]

  like Apple music even like the [TS]

  recommendations like we see apples [TS]

  current capabilities and we know they're [TS]

  past capabilities [TS]

  in Big Data AI based web services and we [TS]

  see that there you know they can do it [TS]

  they can manage to to have a service out [TS]

  there and it can work most of the time [TS]

  and be up most of the time and be fast [TS]

  most of the time but that's that's like [TS]

  what was good enough [TS]

  five years ago 10 years ago and now that [TS]

  the companies who were really good at [TS]

  this stuff like Google they have moved [TS]

  to a different level of sophistication [TS]

  and performance and consistency and we [TS]

  haven't seen Apple match that level and [TS]

  took them a pretty long time to get to [TS]

  the last level so again look at the [TS]

  track record and I don't think it's [TS]

  unreasonable to be concerned about this [TS]

  David shop made a good point the chat [TS]

  you know started people like the yellow [TS]

  from all these acquisitions often aren't [TS]

  compatible with big companies or perhaps [TS]

  moving to the Cupertino area so you know [TS]

  maybe you're happy in Boston like this [TS]

  vocal like you company was you get [TS]

  swooped bought up by Apple you're [TS]

  expected to move and sometimes people [TS]

  just like the chase of a start-up [TS]

  sometimes they just don't like being [TS]

  always on vacation in california and it [TS]

  could be that it has nothing to do with [TS]

  apple at all on it's just the the kind [TS]

  of mindset or or or geographical [TS]

  situation from the from these companies [TS]

  that are being bought or it could be [TS]

  that there's the their new corporate [TS]

  overlords are killing them and they just [TS]

  can't handle it anymore [TS]

  now what do you think John upcoming [TS]

  episode of a another podcast on another [TS]

  network i had a long discussion about [TS]

  Apple not talking about you know agents [TS]

  or services or things like the Google [TS]

  home thing or the Amazon echo or Siri or [TS]

  court on or any of that stuff but about [TS]

  the more mundane aspects of cloud [TS]

  computing that it seems apple still has [TS]

  yet to master and in particular the [TS]

  simple idea of that you have an apple ID [TS]

  you were signed into the Apple ID in [TS]

  various applications on your phone that [TS]

  lets you do things like see your past [TS]

  purchases make new purchases [TS]

  a download your music before you know [TS]

  Apple music or iTunes Match see your [TS]

  photos all those things and the other [TS]

  mess the that the whole identity and [TS]

  login system is both on the web on your [TS]

  mac and but especially on your phone [TS]

  with the series of dialogues popping up [TS]

  and you entering your password having no [TS]

  idea why you're being prompted why [TS]

  you're being prompted again that is not [TS]

  just like level 1 or 1 point 0 or [TS]

  whatever that's like level 0 many many [TS]

  years ago that Apple still hasn't gotten [TS]

  right so I i continue to think I mean I [TS]

  think being strong for rages about apple [TS]

  and services that just sort of having [TS]

  something that looks on the outside just [TS]

  like everyone else's service like a [TS]

  we've done it [TS]

  we have a service for services company [TS]

  you have to keep evolving the basic [TS]

  parts of your system sort of in the same [TS]

  way that you know in the beginning [TS]

  google was the search box that you type [TS]

  terms into eventually there was [TS]

  something to sign into I forget about [TS]

  the first group things sign in to us [TS]

  maybe with gmail maybe something else [TS]

  eventually there was the concept of a [TS]

  google account that was a unifying all [TS]

  the various cool things together and the [TS]

  way Google authentication works and the [TS]

  way it's consistent referencing some [TS]

  tweets a great Hockenberry have been [TS]

  doing recently about the hold [TS]

  how many different ways can you log in [TS]

  with your Apple ID just on websites [TS]

  alone and his speculation that each of [TS]

  those talks to a different back-end and [TS]

  they're all sort of diverse and it's [TS]

  just it's just such a big mess compared [TS]

  to how Google's authentication and login [TS]

  system has evolved over the years to get [TS]

  sort of more sturdy more centralized [TS]

  more comforting more reassuring more [TS]

  reliable more predictable whereas apples [TS]

  has gotten the opposite direction it [TS]

  started off as small and humble and has [TS]

  become fragmented confusing and broken a [TS]

  lot of the time and inexplicable and [TS]

  like we're just talking about logging in [TS]

  we're not talking about understand my [TS]

  natural language query that i'm speaking [TS]

  into my phone which seems like it's a [TS]

  harder problem but if you neglect the [TS]

  fundamentals if you don't but you are [TS]

  talking about likely that why these [TS]

  people are staying in the company's top [TS]

  of this compound path shows as well like [TS]

  you know it could be the serial [TS]

  entrepreneurs and move on to other [TS]

  things but apples and organizations [TS]

  never seem to value the type of [TS]

  infrastructure work that is necessary to [TS]

  be a world-class services organization [TS]

  that you you can't have every project do [TS]

  everything on its own [TS]

  you have to sort of build up a common [TS]

  core infrastructure like it has like [TS]

  again this is a repeat of shows for many [TS]

  years ago but like like it has won the [TS]

  US side they had a car OS they develop [TS]

  they use it is the underpinning for the [TS]

  new mac operating system and eventually [TS]

  ended up being the underpinning for the [TS]

  phone operating system also for their [TS]

  watch operating system also for their [TS]

  h.264 hdmi adapter cable for the [TS]

  you know whatever happens I won't forget [TS]

  anyone as you like [TS]

  core technologies cocoa objective-c the [TS]

  compiler infrastructure their [TS]

  development tools like on on the client [TS]

  side of the non-service world they [TS]

  understand that it's stupid of every [TS]

  product to have its own little thing [TS]

  unify shareware possible like it just [TS]

  makes more sense and then on the service [TS]

  side they haven't quite gotten that down [TS]

  to the most basic thing you could [TS]

  possibly do with the service which is [TS]

  like login and have an application that [TS]

  knows that you're logged in it doesn't [TS]

  ask you to login repeatedly for no [TS]

  reason it doesn't lose your login [TS]

  credentials doesn't get confused that [TS]

  you don't have bad weather iCloud days [TS]

  where things don't seem to be working [TS]

  like I don't know how many more people [TS]

  get sick of hearing about this and their [TS]

  army listing off all the technologies [TS]

  that google has had developed over the [TS]

  years that are not for a specific [TS]

  project that are so that anybody google [TS]

  can make a scalable worldwide reliable [TS]

  redundant performing network service on [TS]

  top of these things that they built in [TS]

  this whole section of the company grew [TS]

  all they do is make that infrastructure [TS]

  better and better revised and replace [TS]

  this one of the better version and that [TS]

  and then just it it's a rising tide [TS]

  lifts all boats and apples just like [TS]

  you're checked out and to see with life [TS]

  preserver and have it sent to fend for [TS]

  yourself even the whole the Syrian [TS]

  people touting like they're moving to [TS]

  the app Apache was amazed us or [TS]

  something or whatever like I get the [TS]

  impression that teams like solving a [TS]

  problem for themselves like why is there [TS]

  not an apple wide solution to anybody [TS]

  who wants to write a service like this [TS]

  that is infrastructure for the whole [TS]

  company why is a product team doing it [TS]

  and it's just it seems to me they just [TS]

  don't get it and that to me explains [TS]

  partly why people who aren't serial [TS]

  entrepreneur but you really want to work [TS]

  in a company that values that type of [TS]

  work would definitely go to work for [TS]

  Google or even Amazon Facebook before [TS]

  they would go for Apple because those [TS]

  companies are so much more fun [TS]

  son valuing those server-side and [TS]

  operations in data center things worse [TS]

  apples like we kind of try to do it [TS]

  in-house and we kind of farm stuff out [TS]

  to as you're an Amazon but we're not [TS]

  really good that stuff we mostly make [TS]

  cool devices and that's that's just not [TS]

  going to cut a long term regardless of [TS]

  whether a is awesome anything I think [TS]

  it's not cutting it today and it's just [TS]

  not going to cut it even for basic stuff [TS]

  like photos which even if you set aside [TS]

  all the cool stuff the case he loves [TS]

  about google photos just the basics of [TS]

  doing photos right and having them in [TS]

  the cloud and everything took them so [TS]

  long to even get like sort of a passable [TS]

  level of having things working and so [TS]

  many different tries and I guess you [TS]

  know cloudkit is it is an attempt to do [TS]

  that type of infrastructure but it's [TS]

  like that they're just taking too long [TS]

  and moving too slowly everyone else's [TS]

  too far ahead of them again repeats of [TS]

  stuff I said a lot last week but it's [TS]

  it's on my mind a lot because i use a [TS]

  lot of apple products and every time i [TS]

  think about is that i'm starting to [TS]

  think about other aspects of my life [TS]

  that i use apple with that I would be [TS]

  better off using someone else with down [TS]

  to things like Google photos with the kc [TS]

  talking about that but you know all the [TS]

  way up to [TS]

  should i should i stop trying to use [TS]

  Syrians google now like I'm not going to [TS]

  go out and get an android phone at this [TS]

  point but i mean i already used gmail [TS]

  from a male I would never use apples [TS]

  mail system for a meal for a variety of [TS]

  reasons [TS]

  apples apples losing on all these fronts [TS]

  yeah google photos and I think I'm may [TS]

  briefly mentioned this last episode it's [TS]

  really rocked my world in a an [TS]

  uncomfortable way because it really [TS]

  makes me wonder like am I missing out on [TS]

  justgiving google everything about [TS]

  everything and having that kind of [TS]

  intelligent assistant thing form for me [TS]

  know it should I be looking at android [TS]

  issues that the gmail web you should use [TS]

  a gmail web interface because it knows [TS]

  when your flights are coming and it puts [TS]

  a little thing there and you can [TS]

  unsubscribe to list from like little [TS]

  buttons on your like its it does smart [TS]

  things with your email and gives you a [TS]

  little buttons without even having to go [TS]

  into them to do and i can put things on [TS]

  your calendar based on what's in there [TS]

  that may sound annoying and everything [TS]

  but it's it's actually really convenient [TS]

  google photos showing me like if you're [TS]

  willing to give Google in this case all [TS]

  of your pictures [TS]

  it's stunning how much intelligence they [TS]

  can provide you based on that you know [TS]

  if I want to search for a picture taken [TS]

  on a patio in 2012 i probably could [TS]

  search for that and it would probably [TS]

  find it pretty quickly [TS]

  it's unbelievable the things that can [TS]

  put together just in the metadata in my [TS]

  pictures and so it's not hard to [TS]

  extrapolate well if it's able to get all [TS]

  this from my pictures [TS]

  what could it do with my email and maybe [TS]

  with searches and things and so on the [TS]

  one side every ounce of me is like no [TS]

  that's a terrible idea you don't want [TS]

  google looking at all those things and [TS]

  then the opposite side of me thinks it [TS]

  is pretty damn convenient is it really [TS]

  that big a deal i mean i already have my [TS]

  email [TS]

  why not take the rest so it's very weird [TS]

  what what google photos is done because [TS]

  it's really made me start thinking about [TS]

  is it worth trading some of that privacy [TS]

  and some of that data to get something [TS]

  that is actually useful out of it we [TS]

  respond to this week by hover and [TS]

  everyone's going to this ad read in [TS]

  under a minute so here we go over to [TS]

  hover com / ATP use the promo code eat [TS]

  fresh at checkout to save ten percent [TS]

  off your first purchase when you have a [TS]

  great year for your blog or store app [TS]

  you get a great domain name find the [TS]

  perfect domain is ridiculously easy with [TS]

  hover hover has no upsells and free who [TS]

  is privacy now when all you want to do [TS]

  is buy domain name or get an email [TS]

  address you shouldn't have to opt-out of [TS]

  page after page of add-ons that you [TS]

  don't want or need [TS]

  they know what's needed they give it to [TS]

  you all included it's great so go to [TS]

  hover com / ATP right now to find a [TS]

  great domain name for your idea use [TS]

  promo code this week eat fresh check out [TS]

  to save ten percent off your first [TS]

  purchase thanks a lot of hope for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  I was gonna say one other thing that [TS]

  came up last week again i feel like i [TS]

  mentioned this to markets like I just [TS]

  feel that the crushing invisibility of [TS]

  podcast because i like we had this [TS]

  discussion last week's adp and nobody [TS]

  knew or cared like it has to be written [TS]

  down somewhere that people can link to [TS]

  before anyone cares about it but anyway [TS]

  something else that was discussed last [TS]

  week that i also saw it written down in [TS]

  places i was i was reminiscing about the [TS]

  old days when Apple and Google were [TS]

  friends and one apple introduced the [TS]

  iphone was like we made this amazing [TS]

  hardware and this amazing OS on this [TS]

  device that's like nothing you've ever [TS]

  seen before and it's powered by this [TS]

  google services and what a great [TS]

  partnership isn't that isn't that great [TS]

  we make the OS and hardware Apple to our [TS]

  google those services and together you [TS]

  have the best of all possible worlds [TS]

  because we are the best at making [TS]

  hardware we are the best at making [TS]

  native client-side applications google [TS]

  is the best that map's they're the best [TS]

  online services that the best search and [TS]

  you anywhere so integrated that we have [TS]

  you know our Maps application is [TS]

  essentially google map application [TS]

  google provides the data we wrote the [TS]

  application it's a marriage made in [TS]

  heaven and they got divorced and we were [TS]

  all sad and I don't know if that's what [TS]

  we're moving towards if like if Apple [TS]

  could never figure this stuff out and if [TS]

  google continues to not be able to make [TS]

  the the money and inroads that it wants [TS]

  to from Android instead the the money [TS]

  from android is going to other people [TS]

  like could we end up years and years [TS]

  down the road where they come back to [TS]

  the table and say you know what we [TS]

  should have never broken up I've learned [TS]

  that it's really hard to make money [TS]

  selling Hardware especially when you [TS]

  give away the OS four kind of free and [TS]

  in China they make android phones [TS]

  without using any of the google services [TS]

  and we kind of let this whole thing get [TS]

  away from us and apples like we tried to [TS]

  make services but it's really hard we're [TS]

  not good at it so why don't we just do [TS]

  what we reach good at and together we [TS]

  can make a great phone platform where [TS]

  Siri will be powered by google now and I [TS]

  message will be replaced with a decent [TS]

  service that doesn't send messages out [TS]

  of order has actual new features in it [TS]

  but it will be and then decrypted and [TS]

  you know like I i want the bullet point [TS]

  i want the best of both worlds and for a [TS]

  brief time it seemed like that's where [TS]

  we're going to get until both Android [TS]

  and Apple decided they were both going [TS]

  to do everything the other person does [TS]

  only better and thus far there their [TS]

  strengths remain the same go [TS]

  was getting better hardware apples [TS]

  getting better at services but if you [TS]

  were to let him down again you would say [TS]

  who's the best at making hardware and [TS]

  operating systems and all that stuff [TS]

  still Apple who's the best at making [TS]

  services still google so i don't know [TS]

  what the long-term solutions but as a [TS]

  customer and not someone who really [TS]

  cares about either one of those two [TS]

  companies ruling the entire world it [TS]

  would be nice if we could turn back the [TS]

  clock on that relationship [TS]

  well the good thing is like I i feel [TS]

  like you know if you look at the [TS]

  situation on the Mac you ignoring iOS [TS]

  for a second look at the mac and the mac [TS]

  you have pretty much what you want you [TS]

  have tons of people who use macs running [TS]

  Mac os10 with all that cool stuff under [TS]

  it [TS]

  maybe even use iCloud for certain things [TS]

  but who use chrome is the browser you [TS]

  use gmail for their mail maybe have [TS]

  google photos whatever uploader however [TS]

  that works installed you know like the [TS]

  on the Mac you have that you have that [TS]

  world of choice where you can totally be [TS]

  bothered to the Google ecosystem and [TS]

  still be using a mac with mac OS as your [TS]

  computer and have all the google stuff [TS]

  running there if you wanted they had [TS]

  cereal is tender when I could build your [TS]

  place with google now like that's the [TS]

  strategy tax type of thing where like [TS]

  you've all what if you want a boy system [TS]

  that helps you on your Mac you only get [TS]

  to choose the Apple and the only reason [TS]

  it's almost like it's an accident of [TS]

  history but that's not sure though [TS]

  because i'm on the Mac you have you have [TS]

  like the system ability for like there's [TS]

  nothing stopping google from running [TS]

  their own demon in the background it's [TS]

  losing on the microphone for its own [TS]

  commands like it is that is not possible [TS]

  it you know in the software environment [TS]

  there's going to be os-level integration [TS]

  though that series going to be favored [TS]

  with and I guess you could say like yeah [TS]

  I'm a call all is fair if you get admin [TS]

  access and write could bypass system [TS]

  integrity protection and hack the finder [TS]

  and get your things into the darker like [TS]

  whatever like Apple Apple always still [TS]

  has an advantage of things like [TS]

  spotlight and stuff like that like [TS]

  Google tried to google had like a [TS]

  spotlight competitor that was trying to [TS]

  yeah the public yeah you stuff like that [TS]

  it's really hard you know and that's [TS]

  something like almost an accident of [TS]

  history that the web browsers can [TS]

  because web browsers to plain old [TS]

  application and so there's no real [TS]

  barrier to entry there even you know [TS]

  especially since apple still has a way [TS]

  for you to pick your default browser on [TS]

  the mac [TS]

  like iOS but as you get more and more [TS]

  integrated into sort of system [TS]

  components it becomes harder for any [TS]

  third party party no matter how good [TS]

  they are to compete with the built-in [TS]

  one not only because it's built in but [TS]

  also because like they're deep books [TS]

  that you can't get a tour you can only [TS]

  get out doing nasty hacks that you have [TS]

  to maintain and so in practice it's [TS]

  really hard you know how bad spotlight [TS]

  is and how good Google's thing could [TS]

  have been it's been really hard to for [TS]

  them to make a better spot light and I [TS]

  imagine Siri will be similar it will be [TS]

  harder for them to integrate their voice [TS]

  other than iOS forget it like you have a [TS]

  choice of so many things you can't [TS]

  change the default anything and it's [TS]

  it's just frustrating but so but I think [TS]

  like on the mac i think the the the gap [TS]

  therebetween what we have possible now [TS]

  and the world you you imagine is like [TS]

  the ideal world here that gap is pretty [TS]

  small i I think we're pretty sure or [TS]

  almost they were pretty much there now [TS]

  we're like if google wants to make all [TS]

  their stuff for for mac OS 10 and [TS]

  integrate their own alternatives in as [TS]

  many ways as they possibly can [TS]

  there are lots of ways to do that right [TS]

  now and that's that's pretty much [TS]

  possible now and in many ways it's [TS]

  already done things like chrome and [TS]

  gmail is like that's pretty much done [TS]

  I'm worried about though I'm worried [TS]

  about it actually getting worse as the [TS]

  next topic we probably won't have time [TS]

  to get to in this show but the next [TS]

  topic of maybe we get to next week is [TS]

  about chromebooks outselling max in [TS]

  school [TS]

  the problem is the google because you [TS]

  know Apple Google both want to do [TS]

  everything that everybody does google [TS]

  like we should sell laptops and we [TS]

  should have you know like it's like we [TS]

  don't have a desktop OS what should we [TS]

  do well we make chrome OS working for [TS]

  android on Chromebooks like we have an [TS]

  OS it's not really a desktop OS but [TS]

  maybe like that everyone wants to be in [TS]

  everything it's it's almost kind of like [TS]

  but only by the good graces of google [TS]

  google is so nice to you know not [TS]

  they're doing it you know the goodness [TS]

  of their heart they want her information [TS]

  in our eyeballs and everything else [TS]

  whatever but they make their [TS]

  applications for iOS and for the mac [TS]

  apple is not making facetime for android [TS]

  you know like it's test on open [TS]

  standards that ever you know you can't [TS]

  go back to that well like Apple keeps [TS]

  itself to its it's tough to its own [TS]

  platform when it's feasible where is [TS]

  google it's more important to get it's [TS]

  thing everywhere so we are blessed with [TS]

  these gifts from google but like oh I [TS]

  can use you know that there's a native [TS]

  or non-native the gmail application for [TS]

  iOS [TS]

  and there's Google now and there's [TS]

  google maps for iOS even though apple [TS]

  took the mapping back into their own [TS]

  native thing and I worry that someday [TS]

  like the cold war will get even colder [TS]

  and Google will start behaving even more [TS]

  like Apple and will be even more solid [TS]

  and then the mac will be like this even [TS]

  the things we enjoy now will be pulled [TS]

  away for me and I feel like with system [TS]

  integrity protection and other things [TS]

  it's getting farther and farther away [TS]

  from the world where anybody could [TS]

  compete with built-in apple stuff all [TS]

  you can really compete with his apple [TS]

  applications [TS]

  yeah but i feel like you know Google and [TS]

  Apple are both under different [TS]

  leadership then where they were when [TS]

  this feud really was at its hottest and [TS]

  you know I think you can look at both [TS]

  companies now and see that they're [TS]

  they're very pragmatic in a lot of the [TS]

  decisions and you know I think I don't [TS]

  think you're ever gonna see some kind of [TS]

  grand reunification where you know they [TS]

  were like Tim comes out as I go now [TS]

  we're apart we've partnered with google [TS]

  to replace like you never going to see [TS]

  that but i think what you will see is [TS]

  apple kind of like yielding certain [TS]

  ground to enable people to do that kind [TS]

  of thing if they want to [TS]

  so you know i'm not saying they're going [TS]

  to suddenly have everything this fall [TS]

  we're like oh you can set your default [TS]

  mail to gmail you can set your default [TS]

  browser chronic I expect we probably [TS]

  will get to that type of things slowly [TS]

  over time as the market kind of direct [TS]

  Apple to do that like you know it that [TS]

  there's enough demand now like apple now [TS]

  offers their own versions of all these [TS]

  different services google is offering [TS]

  their versions of all these different OS [TS]

  and hardware and stuff so you're right [TS]

  there's a lot of duplication here and [TS]

  that's great because the people who [TS]

  really love google can go buy a [TS]

  Chromebook or whatever an android phone [TS]

  and get all their Google stuff people [TS]

  who really love apple can go buy apple [TS]

  hardware an apple software on all Apple [TS]

  services most people are somewhere in [TS]

  the middle [TS]

  most people love some stuff from [TS]

  multiple companies and aren't purest of [TS]

  either company or any company so the [TS]

  more that both companies do to address [TS]

  that giant middleware most of the [TS]

  customers are the more they both really [TS]

  benefit and both companies leadership or [TS]

  smart enough to know that and they're [TS]

  also i think realizing like you know it [TS]

  in the same way like when Steve came [TS]

  back and [TS]

  that big speech with the book bill gates [TS]

  on the big screen and within said like [TS]

  you know for Apple to win microsoft [TS]

  doesn't have to lose or vice versa [TS]

  whatever that was I think you know tim [TS]

  cook knows that even though it's pretty [TS]

  clear that like he obviously think a lot [TS]

  of what Google does distasteful and he's [TS]

  right and Google obviously a lot of what [TS]

  Apple does is you know arrogant and [TS]

  technically inferior and they're right [TS]

  but the reality is i think both [TS]

  companies in google knows that as a [TS]

  services company [TS]

  it has to be everywhere it has to be [TS]

  where the people are and a lot of people [TS]

  are an apple stuff and Apple knows that [TS]

  a lot of its customers who buy its [TS]

  devices really want to use some google [TS]

  stuff on them so they're both gonna you [TS]

  know address that in there they're not [TS]

  going to let that demand go totally [TS]

  unanswered in in the name of like spite [TS]

  overrate you know ten-year-old battle [TS]

  that neither company's CEO was really [TS]

  part of but think of the things that's [TS]

  motivating seems to be ordering Apple [TS]

  now 22 bestow its gifts unto other [TS]

  platforms is the things that are [TS]

  services like Apple music visit Apple [TS]

  music for android right yeah I'm not [TS]

  imagining that is there so because Apple [TS]

  music is a service once for products [TS]

  that are like services you end up using [TS]

  the google rationale well it's a service [TS]

  and the most important thing is that we [TS]

  have a lot of customers so it has to be [TS]

  everywhere right same thing that [TS]

  motivated itunes for windows you know [TS]

  like it when you're in the service [TS]

  mindset for your service products the [TS]

  calculus is different and you end up [TS]

  putting it everywhere [TS]

  ah but the other calculus when it is [TS]

  like this is the reason someone would [TS]

  buy a mac we know or this is the reason [TS]

  to buy a phone we use facetime whatever [TS]

  when it's when it's more link to [TS]

  hardware software proprietary platform [TS]

  for it's not a service where your main [TS]

  goal isn't to get everyone in the world [TS]

  using it you want people to buy iphones [TS]

  you want people to buy max when it's [TS]

  like your hardware business then the [TS]

  opposite motivation comes in so Apple is [TS]

  getting a little bit of the services [TS]

  motivation saying if we have services [TS]

  products we need to have them more than [TS]

  just on our platforms if you want a [TS]

  large customer base and again Google [TS]

  because they wanted to everything Apple [TS]

  does is starting to make hardware [TS]

  products and I wonder if they say well [TS]

  normally there [TS]

  our culture and our motivation that we [TS]

  everything we do is go let's get as many [TS]

  users as possible because their data is [TS]

  the most important thing to us and we [TS]

  can sell based on them blah blah but [TS]

  when we do these hardware products if we [TS]

  actually want to if we can overcome our [TS]

  own company culture and motivate these [TS]

  hardware products like to say you have [TS]

  to make a great product that people want [TS]

  to buy and we don't want to sell a lot [TS]

  of them you have to think in a different [TS]

  mindset thus far google has not been [TS]

  able to get into that mindset which is [TS]

  why most of their hardware has not sold [TS]

  like hotcakes right and thus far mostly [TS]

  apples not been able to get into the [TS]

  right mindset to be really successful [TS]

  services either so as Apple learns [TS]

  google continues learn to it will mean [TS]

  that they will start doing some of the [TS]

  things that I don't like about Apple not [TS]

  sharing their stuff so i'm not sure the [TS]

  net sharing between them will be better [TS]

  i think the only thing that is going to [TS]

  make the net sharing between them [TS]

  improve is for the power balance to [TS]

  shift kind of the same way that the net [TS]

  sharing between Apple and Microsoft [TS]

  really started to move once the parents [TS]

  power balance shifted one sample was [TS]

  almost going out of business Microsoft's [TS]

  like all Apple I remember them all right [TS]

  we'll make office for you here's a [TS]

  hundred million dollars will sell shares [TS]

  too early and regret it but I think [TS]

  someone did the math of what that would [TS]

  be worth of they kept it anyway [TS]

  yeah if the power bounces way off [TS]

  something you can come to the table [TS]

  right when I was like the cold war where [TS]

  you know everyone wants to show strength [TS]

  everyone to do anything and it's not a [TS]

  particularly comfortable time but yeah [TS]

  you're right in the meantime i will [TS]

  continue to use chrome and safari and [TS]

  the gmail and it in the web interface [TS]

  what else do i use from Google Google [TS]

  Drive Google Docs we're using it right [TS]

  now for the shots the mark is not [TS]

  looking at the google search engine it [TS]

  yeah google and apple search engine [TS]

  obviously it its a mix but on iOS [TS]

  definitely it's much harder to achieve [TS]

  that makes and I worry about the mix and [TS]

  look forward what i'm saying is i look [TS]

  forward to the time that this balance [TS]

  shifts in some way and the companies can [TS]

  go back can get out from the sort of [TS]

  megalomaniacal mindset that the old [TS]

  microsoft mindset that not only can we [TS]

  do everything because we are the mighty [TS]

  insert company name we should do [TS]

  everything and we're gonna be awesome at [TS]

  it and that's a bad attitude for any [TS]

  company Google Apple or anything and it [TS]

  mostly leads to bad things but the [TS]

  iphone is a rising tide lifts the hell a [TS]

  lot of boats and so far apples not [TS]

  feeling this thing from that thanks lat [TS]

  43 sponsors this week fracture [TS]

  freshbooks and hover we will see you [TS]

  next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental [TS]

  John's research Marco and Casey would [TS]

  let him because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  you can find the show know the day EP [TS]

  die and if your twitter follow them [TS]

  yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  and I feel like Casey and I feel like I [TS]

  have to like save you in some way from [TS]

  like tripping and falling into android [TS]

  like in the same way like member really [TS]

  good about two years ago you started [TS]

  talking about not wanting a BMW but [TS]

  instead wanting one of those like weird [TS]

  sporty new Cadillac's that's like all [TS]

  straight lines and angles and I like [TS]

  look that you're like I was like just [TS]

  know that I have to save you back away [TS]

  from this clip I'm like I'm like holding [TS]

  back your shirt like you know i'm not [TS]

  going over this cliff like you're not to [TS]

  trust me I you will thank me later [TS]

  you're not doing this right [TS]

  I feel like this might be that moment [TS]

  for tripping and falling into the the [TS]

  google pit of insanity here I I know [TS]

  you're being silly but only a little bit [TS]

  i didn't and I'm i'm not actually [TS]

  looking to buy an android phone or [TS]

  anything but it is striking to me how me [TS]

  but I guess I could say forced i mean i [TS]

  don't have to be a google photos user [TS]

  but the other picture life is is a [TS]

  dumpster fire and ever and ever picks is [TS]

  dead and so and i don't particularly [TS]

  care for flickr just me you my love it [TS]

  that's fine but I backed into google [TS]

  photos and then I started to just really [TS]

  love what it was providing and its [TS]

  really made me like i said earlier kind [TS]

  of question am i holding onto Apple [TS]

  being the best thing ever because it's [TS]

  just what I'm used to and I don't think [TS]

  so and I think that if i if i were to go [TS]

  android it would be death by a thousand [TS]

  very very deep and very wide papercut [TS]

  spite but nevertheless it's made me [TS]

  think and then there was that great [TS]

  episode of connected this week we're [TS]

  federico got himself an android phone [TS]

  and had positive things to say and I [TS]

  think his experience it was probably [TS]

  what I mine would be in that you know [TS]

  there's a lot here to like but it's not [TS]

  enough to sway me but man it's it's [TS]

  stunned me how much I've just like [TS]

  subconsciously been thinking man this is [TS]

  really convenient having them in all of [TS]

  giving them as photos now granted it's [TS]

  tied to my ID that probably has [TS]

  everything about [TS]

  for done on the internet ever but all of [TS]

  knowingly giving them as my photos and [TS]

  the stuff that they can put together is [TS]

  just stunning [TS]

  no I mean like I think like what you're [TS]

  doing now which is like using Apple [TS]

  hardware and os is but using selectively [TS]

  the google things that you like best on [TS]

  them that is generally like the the best [TS]

  combo for most people I think yeah i [TS]

  agree but even with photos though don't [TS]

  you feel the pain of iOS integration [TS]

  like the one of the main reasons i'm [TS]

  sticking with Apple photos is well part [TS]

  of it is I'm actually hoping they're [TS]

  gonna get on the ball and start [TS]

  integrating some of these features like [TS]

  the rumors say but the other thing is [TS]

  like it's integrated with your phone and [TS]

  the native photos application has the [TS]

  stuff and I don't maybe I think there's [TS]

  a bigger barrier than there really is to [TS]

  like what if I just don't use the Apple [TS]

  photos application does the photo [TS]

  picture only show you only Apple photos [TS]

  from the thing or did good [TS]

  yes the the way I think the problem is [TS]

  my mental model for a it for better or [TS]

  worse is that the pictures that are on [TS]

  my phone in like the photos stock photos [TS]

  app those are the pictures that were [TS]

  generated on that phone or have been [TS]

  beamed to that phone via airdrop or [TS]

  Wi-Fi from the big camera something like [TS]

  that but it's not all your photos [TS]

  correct when to me something else [TS]

  outside of the stock photos app is all [TS]

  of my photos and it was picture life and [TS]

  now it's google photos now I'm not [TS]

  saying that's right i'm not saying that [TS]

  that's how you would treat it but that's [TS]

  the way I like to treat it but do you [TS]

  have sheriff's I guess you have with the [TS]

  extension that you have a share sheet [TS]

  like say you say you want to tweet [TS]

  something you want to tweet and it's a [TS]

  picture from like three years ago that's [TS]

  in you that's in your all my photos [TS]

  collection when you tap the little [TS]

  camera icon in your twitter application [TS]

  of choice doesn't bring up a photo [TS]

  picture and you have the option to [TS]

  picking from your google photos that you [TS]

  only get to pick from the phone things i [TS]

  think only the phone things but my [TS]

  workflow yes so on tweet but i can only [TS]

  choose from library but my workflow [TS]

  would have been if i were to do [TS]

  something like that guy in the photo [TS]

  again find the photo on google photos [TS]

  download it onto my phone and then take [TS]

  it from there and [TS]

  I mean I wanted to work both ways like I [TS]

  said it's rather a real or perceived [TS]

  barrier to like the fact that Apple's [TS]

  photos are integrated into iOS in the [TS]

  most convenient possible way and all [TS]

  third-party things are slightly less [TS]

  convenient or they have to think about [TS]

  more or whatever and that's another area [TS]

  where eventually like Marco said it [TS]

  could be that you know the sort of the [TS]

  date on which comes in and then they [TS]

  start allowing you to pick [TS]

  hey what do you use for your photos and [TS]

  just has to be conformed to this [TS]

  particular you know interface or API or [TS]

  whatever and then when you say pick [TS]

  photos we won't just show you your [TS]

  collection of quote-unquote Apple photo [TS]

  same thing with contact same thing with [TS]

  everything else that context is [TS]

  different because Apple actually gives [TS]

  you access to the underlying data from [TS]

  any application so you can use different [TS]

  calendars stuff anyway that what I'm [TS]

  saying is i'm sticking with the Apple [TS]

  apps and a lot a lot of cases not [TS]

  because i think that the best because i [TS]

  would i would like to try google photos [TS]

  but I know that I can't try google [TS]

  photos without having a split brain [TS]

  situation where now i have two [TS]

  collections of photos to manage i'm not [TS]

  going to do that so i just have the one [TS]

  collection and you know I maybe i would [TS]

  upload them as I can ever done backup if [TS]

  I'm are i think i'm still paying for [TS]

  like Tara by the google storage for [TS]

  various reasons but yeah I'm I it's a [TS]

  barrier it's a barrier to me tryin what [TS]

  is almost certainly a product that i [TS]

  would enjoy more than what i'm using and [TS]

  also have to say a lack of a really cool [TS]

  native application like photos is a [TS]

  barrier and the photos drives me up a [TS]

  wall but there's no equivalent to that [TS]

  fool photos as far as I'm aware when we [TS]

  will go down well what are you looking [TS]

  for because there's absolutely a native [TS]

  app but but it may not do the sorts of [TS]

  things that you wanted to I mean like [TS]

  like like the photos application like [TS]

  with all the adjustments and all the [TS]

  like it's not their fancy but it's it's [TS]

  a native application rather than a weird [TS]

  web interface and it has all sorts of [TS]

  you know almost reading and printing you [TS]

  know booklets and doing to all the stuff [TS]

  that like iphoto use doing that photo is [TS]

  still sort of does [TS]

  yes so it does a lot but not all of that [TS]

  so it is native and I'm sure knowing [TS]

  that's given that it's google i'm sure [TS]

  there's web views that I'm just not [TS]

  realizing but it doesn't feel like [TS]

  they're webviews it feels [TS]

  honest-to-goodness native you can do [TS]

  some modifications but here again that's [TS]

  not something I typically do on my phone [TS]

  even the Photos app so that that's not [TS]

  an itch I need to scratch [TS]

  I'm talking about them [TS]

  where the mac app not that I was that oh [TS]

  I'm sorry [TS]

  yeah on the on the desktop you're [TS]

  absolutely right it's all web [TS]

  yeah I thought you were talking about [TS]

  iOS know that that's what we're doing [TS]

  the photos we looking on the five-game a [TS]

  kilo of photos and that's how I sort [TS]

  through them to pick up the phone i got [TS]

  my gosh calendar and arranging things [TS]

  and and I guess also photostream and [TS]

  this is sort of a family inertia and [TS]

  that we finally got everything set up on [TS]

  photostream so now when we you know post [TS]

  picture everyone can see it and it's so [TS]

  much better than every other system [TS]

  we've tried pretty recently that to get [TS]

  pictures of my grandkids to grandparents [TS]

  this is the best system because we just [TS]

  do a thing and that thing pops up and [TS]

  they see the thing and so much easier [TS]

  than sending URLs or knowing when they [TS]

  need to go there whatever like and again [TS]

  if we just got them onto the google [TS]

  system that can do the same thing but [TS]

  it's like well everyone's always already [TS]

  set up with their iOS devices that like [TS]

  its platform inertia and lock in keeping [TS]

  me away from superior applications [TS]

  things are working sort of as designed [TS]

  for Apple but i'm a little bitter about [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah i think the problem is there [TS]

  shouldn't be a problem but the [TS]

  difference between you and I is a couple [TS]

  of things one idea the file system on my [TS]

  actually it's sitting on the synology [TS]

  but effectively on the imac IV the file [TS]

  system is the canonical representation [TS]

  of my photos i don't use photos app on [TS]

  the desktop i actually really don't like [TS]

  it very much at all [TS]

  I and so to me google photos is just a [TS]

  portable search tool and view into that [TS]

  repository and that works really well [TS]

  for me and I've always treated my true [TS]

  my one true repository as segregated [TS]

  like i was saying earlier from the from [TS]

  the phone and that just works really [TS]

  well for me [TS]

  additionally you do a lot more stuff [TS]

  with your photos than I tend to I'll [TS]

  share them on social media I have a [TS]

  shared album for pictures that we like [TS]

  Declan that we've shared with friends [TS]

  and family like you guys but I don't do [TS]

  a whole lot of heavy photo editing i [TS]

  think was Marco or somebody taught me [TS]

  how to do a white balance correction for [TS]

  when I take pictures at night that's [TS]

  like a big new advancement I think I [TS]

  didn't teach you i just said you should [TS]

  look into this it makes a big difference [TS]

  and it's not that hard [TS]

  yeah okay that's what that was like my [TS]

  first are taking decent photos or photos [TS]

  with decent camera [TS]

  is like in 2006-2007 like I look back on [TS]

  those photos and they're all orange [TS]

  because i didn't know that dick white [TS]

  balance and I eventually learned white [TS]

  balance out that makes a huge difference [TS]

  and I didn't know that for a very long [TS]

  time so it's best to try to like jump [TS]

  you up the queue of learning how to do [TS]

  photos click here which I appreciate it [TS]

  three years [TS]

  just look at what exactly's that it did [TS]

  absolutely did but yeah but the right [TS]

  bring that up to say that that's about [TS]

  as heavy and edit as i usually get we [TS]

  don't do the yearly calendar thing we [TS]

  probably shouldn't i'm jealous of your [TS]

  girlie calendars or like the underscores [TS]

  were showing us we're up there this past [TS]

  weekend they do i'm merely like photo [TS]

  books and we should do that but host [TS]

  asking a was asking David and Lauren you [TS]

  know how long does that take you and [TS]

  they said well about a week week and a [TS]

  half every single year and I don't know [TS]

  how they find the time for it but i wish [TS]

  i had it so i guess they make the time [TS]

  for it but I'm I i don't use photos [TS]

  heavily I find that for me photos are [TS]

  just I want to have them to help jog my [TS]

  memory [TS]

  I want to be able to get to a relatively [TS]

  arbitrary photo very quickly so all that [TS]

  restaurant we went to that when we were [TS]

  going when we are on our trip to Paris [TS]

  I'd like a picture that well I can just [TS]

  type in paris in google photos and maybe [TS]

  you can do this in regular photos to is [TS]

  in fact I think you can but i could type [TS]

  in paris in google photos all only with [TS]

  geo tags and only if you actually happen [TS]

  to be in Paris like these are all like [TS]

  rap wants to catch up and if they're [TS]

  actually you know always remember the [TS]

  true they should show hey the next [TS]

  version of photos knows what the hell's [TS]

  in your picture and can do something and [TS]

  then it's just a competition of who does [TS]

  it better [TS]

  spoiler alert it's gonna be google but [TS]

  at least just having that feature is [TS]

  better than not having it at all right [TS]

  so here's a great example so earlier [TS]

  today I forget why but I wanted to see [TS]

  if I had a picture of the Rotunda uva so [TS]

  uva is is the universal Virginia it's [TS]

  where Aaron went to school it's about an [TS]

  hour west of where we live and they're [TS]

  like most famous building is a building [TS]

  called the Rotunda which is modeled [TS]

  after the him beyond or Parthenon i [TS]

  always get it wrong i'm so sorry please [TS]

  don't email Pentagon's you model it [TS]

  the Pentagon totally it's modeled after [TS]

  one of those so it's like this old old [TS]

  your kind of Greek looking structure [TS]

  with the columns and all that anyway so [TS]

  i did a search for rotunda and i have [TS]

  not knowingly tag these pictures in any [TS]

  way it doesn't out nevermind to test a [TS]

  pretty returned on this picture just [TS]

  getting but this but this is a terrible [TS]

  example on but so the file name in this [TS]

  case did tag it and my bad but i have [TS]

  seen other situations just let's pretend [TS]

  that's not the case [TS]

  I've seen other situations when I [TS]

  haven't given google any information [TS]

  about the photo but it has figured out [TS]

  oh this is the Rotunda well as an [TS]

  example so they're the pictures of the [TS]

  Pantheon Parthenon always get it wrong [TS]

  we were there in in Italy I believe God [TS]

  federal Federico's gonna be so mad [TS]

  anyway point is we were at the [TS]

  inspiration for the Rotunda and i just [TS]

  did a search in google photos for honda [TS]

  and one of the things that comes up our [TS]

  pictures of this old old old ancient [TS]

  building which looks just like the uva [TS]

  rotunda [TS]

  so Google has said presumably hey what [TS]

  is the ETA return to look like oh this [TS]

  looks like that [TS]

  let's bubble these up as well and you [TS]

  could take this either way right you [TS]

  could either say well this is a this is [TS]

  a false positive or you could take that [TS]

  as well this is an ancillary picture [TS]

  that you may have wanted someone to give [TS]

  it to you anyway and just that machine [TS]

  learning which we heard a thousand times [TS]

  during google i/o it really does [TS]

  freaking work and in the fact that i can [TS]

  just search the word rotondo and get not [TS]

  only pictures that we've taken in front [TS]

  of the return of the pictures we've [TS]

  taken from this or this other building [TS]

  I just find that to be amazing and it [TS]

  makes it so so convenient that rather [TS]

  than having to think to myself all right [TS]

  when we in Paris or when were we in Rome [TS]

  or what have you had that was 2012 shoot [TS]

  what month was it i think was like no it [TS]

  was August all right now I got to go [TS]

  through every picture in August to [TS]

  figure out where where was that where [TS]

  when it was that we went to Rome and now [TS]

  i gotta search for ok which day was it [TS]

  in this week that we were there now [TS]

  granted another approach could be what I [TS]

  suspect you do John which is to catalog [TS]

  in in tag and do a lot of this stuff by [TS]

  hand but I don't have the patience for [TS]

  and so i love that that google photos [TS]

  can just figure it out for me that's why [TS]

  I always what I don't want to do all [TS]

  that work i would like a reliable way to [TS]

  do it like everyone picasa came out with [TS]

  a face detection like oh that's awesome [TS]

  but all they don't have an apple store i [TS]

  wish they did an apple came out with the [TS]

  features like yeah finally you caught up [TS]

  and then what face detection brought was [TS]

  a fan spinning cpu grinding featured [TS]

  iphoto that nevertheless failed to [TS]

  accomplish the task that I wanted for [TS]

  which is basically find me all the [TS]

  pictures of a particular person because [TS]

  you have to Train it and it would miss a [TS]

  bunch and bottom line is my manual [TS]

  tagging of who's in that picture was [TS]

  better and faster and did not destroy my [TS]

  computer during the process so it's like [TS]

  you brought the feature but your [TS]

  implementation is bad enough that manual [TS]

  tagging still wins [TS]

  whereas with the google thing there's no [TS]

  way I'm going to take everything like [TS]

  you know I'm gonna take all the hugs and [TS]

  all likely the nighttime things and put [TS]

  geotags I'm I you know pictures that [TS]

  don't have tags because I from cameras [TS]

  it said they don't have a gps and not [TS]

  going to do that if Google can do it [TS]

  it's not as if it's competing with a [TS]

  better manual tagging alternative is [TS]

  competing with there's no way in hell [TS]

  you could do this manually and so you're [TS]

  not comparing it to essentially you know [TS]

  99 percent accuracy you comparing it to [TS]

  nothing you got nothing that when i'm [TS]

  looking for pictures like you know [TS]

  where's that picture of my television so [TS]

  I could see like what arrangement of AV [TS]

  equipment i had three years ago I just [TS]

  have to scroll I said the scroll with my [TS]

  balls and like look at the date and see [TS]

  like the houses around last year and [TS]

  then just sort of scroll through the [TS]

  pictures and look for something like a [TS]

  TV sometimes you miss it if I could just [TS]

  talk TV and you know TV 2013 google [TS]

  photos would do it [TS]

  photos on a Mac will not yeah i just [TS]

  typed television 2013 and i'm looking at [TS]

  pictures I took of RTV amount of the [TS]

  course of course you are anyway I'm i [TS]

  like face recognition i fully expect [TS]

  apple to add this feature two photos I [TS]

  just hope they do better this time than [TS]

  last time [TS]

  well this whole thing is how does how [TS]

  does photos get better at figuring out [TS]

  what's in the photo because it does it [TS]

  can't really aggregate what it learns [TS]

  over good Jillian's of photos [TS]

  it can just do a best guess based on [TS]

  what's been programmed into the photos [TS]

  and there has to be a server-side [TS]

  component there as well right and then [TS]

  it at that point how are they any better [TS]

  than google and if you put on your [TS]

  tinfoil hat i don't but i don't consider [TS]

  it bad or like a good apples got all my [TS]

  photos anyway where do you think they're [TS]

  all stored that current Apple servers i [TS]

  don't i assume they're not even [TS]

  encrypted they're just like I'm i'm [TS]

  signing up to say here Apple take my [TS]

  photos and start the minor cloud [TS]

  infrastructure now Apple you have all my [TS]

  photos and I'm trusting you won't do [TS]

  anything to various with them right [TS]

  that's it that's the deal so I that's [TS]

  not hang up for me at all like oh I [TS]

  don't want to get my photos of google [TS]

  know i'll give them to google that the [TS]

  reasons i don't have everything I just [TS]

  said like iOS integration and sharing [TS]

  photos with family and all this stuff [TS]

  yes like here's a great example so i [TS]

  typed in Declan listened in I've told [TS]

  google you know it it discovered that [TS]

  there is someone who looks like this in [TS]

  a lot of pictures and I told told google [TS]

  ok thats Declan and so I typed in [TS]

  decklist comma beach common 2015 and it [TS]

  came up with our beach trip from last [TS]

  year but interestingly also came up with [TS]

  a shot of Declan sitting at a pumpkin [TS]

  patch where the ground was [TS]

  indistinguishable from sand at a glance [TS]

  so it has looked at this picture and [TS]

  said hmm that looks to me to be a beach [TS]

  that looks to me like that's Declan in [TS]

  there and it is one of the results that [TS]

  came back and here again like I said [TS]

  earlier you could treat that as a false [TS]

  positive but I think it's great because [TS]

  it shows that there is some amount of [TS]

  like reasoning going into tagging that [TS]

  picture as being at the beach and it's [TS]

  good stuff so it makes you wonder you [TS]

  know hey would it be cool if it just [TS]

  search my email and said hey you know [TS]

  you better leave now for that flight [TS]

  that's coming up and to be fair what is [TS]

  I forget what they call it but apples [TS]

  doing that well right yeah so you know [TS]

  it like when i get in the car on the way [TS]

  home [TS]

  it'll say it sees the phone will see [TS]

  that I've connected to a car bluetooth [TS]

  and it'll say well about this time he [TS]

  tends to be heading to my home address [TS]

  and it will tell me it'll be about eight [TS]

  minutes to get you home [TS]

  like that's what that's awesome and [TS]

  that's the same sort of thing that I'm [TS]

  thinking about when I say extrapolating [TS]

  google photos advantages out you know [TS]

  what what can that get me and that that [TS]

  sort of thing oh I see you're in the car [TS]

  I know what you're probably going to do [TS]

  it'll probably take about 10 minutes [TS]

  that is awesome and it doesn't have to [TS]

  be google and it doesn't have to be [TS]

  server-side in in every single case but [TS]

  i can see how a lot of cases like photos [TS]

  there are many advantages of it being [TS]

  server-side from a company that does the [TS]

  sort of machine learning all the time [TS]

  every time I get into my car [TS]

  Proactive tells me how long it takes to [TS]

  get the chicken salad le so it actually [TS]

  pretty well being serious doesn't really [TS]

  ya the main place to go [TS]

  I mean I would argue it's probably [TS]

  working as designed it tells me the work [TS]

  one though I think I feel like it tells [TS]

  me at times when it should know that I'm [TS]

  not going to work i don't know how would [TS]

  you know like maybe the national holiday [TS]

  maybe it's Christmas so again the car [TS]

  it's you know X number of minutes to [TS]

  work like come on it's Christmas and not [TS]

  going to work [TS]