0:00:00[Music]
0:00:05From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 128. Today's show is brought to you by
0:00:11Hover, Pingdom and Encapsula. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined
0:00:16by Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico!
0:00:18Ciao Myke, how are you?
0:00:19I am very well. I'm Mr Stephen Hackett, how are you?
0:00:21Howdy.
0:00:22We got a big show today. We got lots of little things happening here.
0:00:26It's a weird show. It's gonna be good there.
0:00:29Yeah, isn't it always weird? I mean, it's not like we are completely normal, so there's
0:00:36a bit of weirdness in each show. Anyway, we have a lot of follow-up.
0:00:40Yes, we do. I have begun my process of becoming Federico Vittucci.
0:00:45So basically, most of our follow-up this week, I'm looking at our document. It involves something
0:00:50that Myke has done, or said, or bought. So, Myke, what's the...
0:00:55Isn't that just like the general theme of the show?
0:00:58Yes, of course. What do you want to start with, Myke? You have plenty of choice.
0:01:02So I've begun the switch to Todoist.
0:01:04Okay.
0:01:05I don't want to spend too much time talking about Todoist specifically today because
0:01:10I'm still kind of understanding how it works and moving all of my processes over and my
0:01:16project templates and stuff from OmniFocus. So I'm still working through all of that.
0:01:20So far it's not a disaster.
0:01:23Okay, that's hyper is.
0:01:25There are things that I don't like, but the benefits that I'm getting because there is
0:01:31that web backend currently outweighing the things that I don't like.
0:01:37But there is one other thing that I did which I'm very excited about which is I signed up
0:01:41for Zapier.
0:01:43And I'm using Zapier for just a couple of little things right now.
0:01:48There's some stuff that we've really wanted reporting from Freshbooks into Slack that
0:01:52we've not been able to do with other services but Zapier there is integration which I've
0:01:57been able to do so we can pull some of that data in.
0:02:00And also a lot of like for the hashtag #AskUpgrade and stuff like that I create these Google
0:02:06sheets and there's been some fields that I've wanted like for the sheet to pull in the person's
0:02:11name from Twitter when they tweet with a hashtag rather than just their username.
0:02:16IFTTT cannot do this but Zapier can.
0:02:20So I'm on the Zapier train, I've already signed up for a plan and everything.
0:02:25I'm like I'm so in, I'm in like Flynn.
0:02:27There's just a couple of things that I've wanted to do for months and I've not been
0:02:33able to do them and it's been really annoying and every time I have to perform a task which
0:02:37is related to that, it's frustrating to me that I've not been able to get the automation
0:02:42that I was using to work in the way that I wanted, but Zapier can do it.
0:02:48You mentioned something interesting.
0:02:50When you say the backend of Todoist allows you to do things that weren't possible before,
0:02:56does that involve Zapier also?
0:02:58It will.
0:02:59Okay.
0:03:00Like I'm digging around with this stuff now, right?
0:03:03I've kind of had these tabs open on my devices and I keep poking around and seeing what this
0:03:07does and seeing what that does and trying to set up some workflows for Todoist and I'm
0:03:14I'm looking at trying to use Zapier to connect Todoist and toggle together my time tracking.
0:03:23My eyes are being opened to some of this stuff now and I'm excited about it and it's a great
0:03:30way to waste some time. There's nothing better than wasting time by creating a productive
0:03:37system.
0:03:38Is it really a waste of time?
0:03:42time that I should maybe be using in theory on doing something else which is on my task
0:03:47list as opposed to just poking around with integrations?
0:03:50You know when I do that, when I play around with Workflow and with Zapier, I have an entry
0:03:56in my time tracking.
0:03:58It's called research.
0:03:59So whenever I play around, it is research because eventually it ends up either in the
0:04:05newsletter or on Mac Stories or I create some automation of my own.
0:04:10So it is research after all.
0:04:11And it's not like...
0:04:12I mean it would be a waste of time if I was spending a couple of hours on YouTube checking
0:04:17out, I don't know, cats for example.
0:04:20That's a waste of time.
0:04:21But trying out automation and scripting, it's research.
0:04:24Yeah, I've been thinking about maybe classifying it as workflow, like workflows or something
0:04:31like that, like in my time tracking, that I'm doing something which is useful, which
0:04:36which is trying to improve my workflows and my productivity.
0:04:40Yeah, it's very interesting.
0:04:42I'm very happy to hear that, Myke.
0:04:44Thank you.
0:04:45I'm kind of scared about what you will do
0:04:50in the sense of you're going from one extreme to another.
0:04:55And I just want to see what you come up with.
0:05:00Because I feel like you've been stuck on an old system for a long time
0:05:05and now you have this infinity in front of you and I want to see what you do.
0:05:13I mean you're already paying for a plan on Zapier, you know it's like all these changes have been very condensed
0:05:20in a short amount of time, so I want to see what you come up with, I'm really curious.
0:05:25Yeah I think I kind of need a plan of some kind because of the hashtag stuff,
0:05:31like these are just tweets that are just pouring in.
0:05:33And I need to have a plan there to keep pulling those in.
0:05:38And that is something that is very useful for me.
0:05:40It saves me a lot of time.
0:05:42Yeah, so I'm really happy about that.
0:05:43And I'm poking around and I'm interested
0:05:48to see what's gonna come out of the other side.
0:05:50- Nice, nice.
0:05:51- We were wondering, we were wondering,
0:05:54there was question as to whether 2017
0:05:57would continue the tradition of Myke is right.
0:06:00or not and it turns out that yes it will because I remember on this show many weeks ago when
0:06:10we were talking about the MacBook Pro and Steven bought the MacBook Pro with keys, the
0:06:18function grow keys and I am very sure that I made a prediction at this point that he
0:06:24would inevitably...
0:06:25Why didn't you call it with a nickname? Because you know I don't like nicknames?
0:06:29Why didn't you call it the MacBook escape?
0:06:32Well, because I know you don't like them. You get really upset.
0:06:36You're so sweet. Thank you, Myke.
0:06:38You're just going to start shouting at me. I can't win. If I don't say it, you shout
0:06:42at me. If I say it, you shout at me.
0:06:44So Stephen ordered the MacBook escape. And at the time, I remember saying that I believed
0:06:53it would be only a matter of time until he bought the Touch Bar. And I made the case
0:06:57for him to buy the Touch Bar because I knew this would inevitably happen to him. Stephen,
0:07:03what did you do in the time that you were away from the last episode?
0:07:08You bought me a candle. So I had to buy a MacBook Pro.
0:07:13This is the line, no, this is the worst justification.
0:07:18It's really not.
0:07:20How does this work?
0:07:22Basically, the things you buy grow exponentially.
0:07:24So if Myke buys a candle and you buy a MacBook Pro
0:07:27as a consequence, do I need to buy a car?
0:07:30- You need to buy a boat.
0:07:32So Myke and I both had birthdays recently.
0:07:37Our birthdays are just a couple days apart.
0:07:40Many, many years apart, but just a couple days apart.
0:07:43And Myke bought me, I think somewhat jokingly,
0:07:47it was a very strange gift.
0:07:49- Definitely. - The 12 South,
0:07:50the 12 South candle that smells like a new Mac,
0:07:53or they say smells like a new Mac,
0:07:55and I thought, look, I'm in a unique position here
0:07:58where I can answer the question,
0:08:01does this candle smell like a new Mac?
0:08:04So I set up my camera and did a little YouTube video
0:08:08about that, but I needed a new Mac to compare it to.
0:08:13And if it hadn't been $4,000 or whatever it was,
0:08:17I would have bought a Mac Pro for this,
0:08:19just 'cause it had been really funny.
0:08:21'Cause then I could also do the whole,
0:08:22I bought a new Mac but it's not new bit.
0:08:25But I didn't and I looked to see what was available
0:08:27in my Apple store and they had a 13 inch touch bar
0:08:30that I could pick up the same day.
0:08:31So I ordered that, I unboxed it on video.
0:08:35If you watched the YouTube video,
0:08:36I'm actually unboxing it on the video
0:08:37so I also got to kind of make fun of unboxing videos,
0:08:40which I think are just ridiculous.
0:08:43And I was gonna return it and then I set it up
0:08:45and then I migrated my user to it and then I sold mine.
0:08:48No, no, no, no. Where is this line? Where does this line… I like that it's like,
0:08:53"Oh, I set it up, I migrated my user, oh, and then I decided to keep it."
0:08:57And it's like two years later, it's like there's a jump.
0:09:01Can you describe what happened in between?
0:09:03You made a huge decision before you decided to keep it. That decision was
0:09:07migrating your user account to it.
0:09:09Yeah, that was my mistake. That is when I decided to keep it. It just happened to me.
0:09:15the user just jumped across the desk into the new MacBook Pro.
0:09:18Just fell itself in there over USB-C.
0:09:22Yeah, so I sold the Escape to someone in the chat room
0:09:26who remained nameless, but it's definitely Kyle.
0:09:29And so yeah, it's nice.
0:09:34I feel like I should do a review of it
0:09:35since I reviewed the Escape.
0:09:36I can tell you right now the battery life
0:09:38is worse than on the Escape, like noticeably so,
0:09:41which is a real bummer.
0:09:42But the touch bar is cool.
0:09:45So all that happened. You should go watch the YouTube video so I can justify the expense.
0:09:49Please click on any ads that YouTube shows you and we'll be all set.
0:09:53You should do more smelling videos. I thought it was really funny and it'd be kind of great
0:09:58to see you compare different types of smells with Apple products.
0:10:03I think there's a line.
0:10:04I don't know, chemicals maybe? It would be interesting.
0:10:06Yeah.
0:10:07I think there's a line in the video. It's like it definitely has a smell. I'm watching
0:10:11it back in the edit I was like well I said that on camera, so that's in the video.
0:10:15My favorite thing about how this whole thing unfolded is that was totally a joke gift that
0:10:20I bought you in the hopes that you would make a YouTube video out of the gift.
0:10:24It worked. It worked.
0:10:25What I did not in my wildest dreams imagine is that me buying that candle for you would
0:10:30lead to just another successful moment in my predicting life where you ended up then
0:10:35buying and keeping a touch bar MacBook Pro.
0:10:39- Yeah, and now Kyle is trolling me with my subhead
0:10:43to my MacBook Escape article,
0:10:44in which I defended my choice not to buy the touch bar model
0:10:47even though, comma, as a Mac nerd, comma,
0:10:49that's the one I totally should have bought.
0:10:50So that'll be some follow up on 512 pixels.
0:10:53So yeah, so that's a thing.
0:10:56I think we're ready to move on.
0:10:59I'm ready to move on.
0:11:00Federico, you bent Google to your will.
0:11:03- Did I really?
0:11:03I don't know.
0:11:04- You were quoted in the New York Times
0:11:06as Mr. Vittucci. - I was.
0:11:08And now Google has done what you asked them to do.
0:11:11It's not just me, it's really a bunch of people that came together to express common concerns.
0:11:15But they're not on the podcast, you're on the podcast.
0:11:17Well, they are in spirit. They are with me in spirit.
0:11:21I think...
0:11:23So basically what happened?
0:11:25I was complaining in December about
0:11:29how Google AMP
0:11:31works on mobile devices.
0:11:33And not necessarily the AMP technology which is open source and it's not
0:11:36directly controlled by Google by the way that AMP integrates with Google Search,
0:11:40with Google Search results. Google has redesigned Google Search to cache an AMP
0:11:48version of a web article and by caching this version, not just caching actually
0:11:53also pre-rendering so that when you search on something on Google now and
0:11:58you see there's a little lightning bolt icon next to the headline of a story. When
0:12:04you tap it, that's actually pre-rendered from Google's servers. It's
0:12:09basically loading an iframe in a web browser and when you tap it, it loads
0:12:14instantly because it's basically hidden from view. But when you tap it, there's no
0:12:18minimal resources are fetched across the internet because the
0:12:23majority of the story is already being prefetched. And the problem there is that
0:12:27by doing pre-rendering, Google is, instead of using the publisher URL in the story,
0:12:33they're using a google.com/somethingpermalink.
0:12:38And that's because, of course, prerendering has to happen on Google servers to be fast, you know, worldwide.
0:12:43And I complained about this because I feel like, especially in this day and age of, you know, fake news and, you know,
0:12:50the lack of attribution on stories,
0:12:53I feel like it's fundamental to retain control of your own website, of your own domain name, and your own,
0:13:01authority when it comes to the stories that you publish. And by enabling AMP, you are effectively selling yourself to Google's control,
0:13:09which is, I enabled AMP on Mac Stories and within a couple of days, people who were clicking on Google search results
0:13:17were not seeing the macstories.net permalink they were seeing Google's.
0:13:21And I don't like that and I got so many complaints from people saying
0:13:24"Why is that when I open Mac Stories, instead of getting your own link, I get some google.com link?"
0:13:30So when it comes to permalinks, when it comes to other companies wanting to control my stuff,
0:13:37I always know right away, I don't need to think about it. I made the decision within a couple of days.
0:13:44It's like I really don't like this, I want my links, I want people to land on my site and see my site's name.
0:13:50So I disabled AMP, and that tweet that I sent got a surprising amount of retweets and favorites and replies,
0:13:57including some people from Google who got in touch, they were really lovely actually,
0:14:00and they provided some feedback but we were disagreeing on the basic premise.
0:14:04And there was this story on Search Engine Land by Dan Sullivan, I think.
0:14:11And it was not, basically the summary of the story is, it was not just me.
0:14:17A lot of publishers were concerned that Google, by rewriting the permalinks,
0:14:21were effectively shutting down publishers from controlling their own websites in Google Search.
0:14:27You can agree with this approach, you can disagree with this approach.
0:14:31I personally stand firm on my idea that as a website owner, especially an indie website,
0:14:36you know I'm not some big shot publication like the New York Times or The Verge,
0:14:40I need to control my name and I need to make sure that people share my links.
0:14:44I complained about this and then eventually the New York Times did a story.
0:14:48I was on vacation when this came out, but they did a story and they quoted my Twitter at the beginning of the article
0:14:54and also they got in touch with other publishers.
0:14:56And there was a common concern, you know, that when you open a story from Google mobile search results,
0:15:01which I would argue is the majority of people do that these days,
0:15:03you don't see the real permalink of a website, you see the Google.com cache pre-rendered in the browser.
0:15:11Yesterday, finally, Google, not finally because it's been a long time,
0:15:15it's been actually a surprisingly short turnaround.
0:15:18Yeah.
0:15:18Google announced some changes to the display of AMP pages on mobile search results.
0:15:25It's not a drastic redesign, it's not like they're not gonna pre-render anymore.
0:15:32Instead, they're still gonna do the pre-rendering, they're still gonna do the google.com
0:15:36permalink, but they will make it easier to see the real website address of the publisher.
0:15:43So there's going to be a link icon in the Google AMP,
0:15:47the top bar, at the top, you know, the little horizontal bar that you get.
0:15:51There's going to be a new button.
0:15:52You can tap that button to see the full link,
0:15:55and you can tap and hold the link to copy it, to send it, to share it with other people.
0:16:00Eventually Google hopes that
0:16:02major companies will agree on
0:16:06supporting this new API, this proposed API called the Web Share API.
0:16:12The Web Share API would allow website owners to embed share buttons in websites,
0:16:19which you might say, well, that's not new, there's plenty of share buttons.
0:16:22This time, instead of opening some web pop-up, they will open the native share interface for each individual OS.
0:16:30So on Android, you will get the share menu, on iOS you will get the share sheet, and so forth.
0:16:35This is something that Google Hope's browsers will agree upon so publishers can use it.
0:16:40I'm impressed at Google here that they took this feedback and have made, I think, a perfectly
0:16:47acceptable change in all honesty. You know, that they are making the, you know, there's obviously
0:16:55some technical reason or a political reason why they want to keep their short URLs. I get that.
0:17:00Like, that's fine. Like, they're making the service, it's their service, you can choose if
0:17:03you want to use it or not. But, you know, there was a complaint that, you know, that you and
0:17:07others had about the fact that you still want to have your branding and your URLs
0:17:10there if somebody wants them so they surface that and I think that's good I
0:17:15mean I like AMP I like that so because you know sometimes I'm searching for
0:17:19something on my phone and an AMP article pops up and I click it is there
0:17:23immediately and I'm not waiting I like that convenience but I have found it
0:17:26frustrating that I then can't grab the URL to either share or add it to a
0:17:31document for for show notes or something like that which is typically what's
0:17:33happening you know there have been many times where I've like I've googled
0:17:37for an article, I found the AMP article, I can't get the URL, so I then have to Google
0:17:42the title of the article to try and find the original post on the website to get the URL.
0:17:48And so like, that is frustrating, but having it just there a button away, I mean, you know,
0:17:53you can tell me if you think that this is a fair thing Federico, but I think that that
0:17:57is a perfectly fine compromise.
0:18:00I think it is fair.
0:18:02It is better than what we used to have.
0:18:06I still would prefer to see the full link
0:18:09without having to tap a button.
0:18:13Basically, I would like to see the full link at the top
0:18:16instead of just the base domain.
0:18:18But that's probably just me.
0:18:20And I think it is fine that people can tap a button
0:18:23to get the full link.
0:18:24There's some technical concerns in terms
0:18:27of the performance of Google AMP itself.
0:18:30Too many times, some elements of web pages don't work.
0:18:35Videos don't load.
0:18:37Images get stuck loading.
0:18:39Interactive galleries don't work.
0:18:40And this is because Google wants to keep it extremely lightweight
0:18:44to basically fit in a few dozen kilobytes, really.
0:18:49So when you go from a full experience,
0:18:51like The Verge, for example, or The New York Times,
0:18:54and you get this super stripped down view,
0:18:57which is fine, and it's great because it doesn't consume a lot of megabytes,
0:19:00but then stuff doesn't work, I'm not sure what the best compromise is there.
0:19:04So if the plugin keeps evolving and the standard keeps accepting different modifications,
0:19:10like for example, you can use pull quotes, that would be nice,
0:19:14or you can use some other website elements that don't add megabytes to the resources, to the assets.
0:19:20So if you can make it a little more flexible,
0:19:23and maybe if you can surface the full domain
0:19:25without having to hide it behind the button, that'd be nice.
0:19:28But I think it's definitely an improvement.
0:19:31I'm thinking about it.
0:19:33I don't wanna put AMP back just yet.
0:19:37I'm actually focusing on supporting Apple News right now
0:19:40because I want to support the Apple News format,
0:19:42which I wanna talk about later.
0:19:44But I think Google is moving in the right direction.
0:19:46So I'm happy to see this change.
0:19:48- I mean, I looked at AMP for my site a while back
0:19:52and didn't implement it, basically for the same reasons
0:19:54Federico outlined, that I didn't,
0:19:56I liked the speed increase and stuff,
0:19:57but I didn't like the control that it gave
0:19:59and the sort of masking of my URL.
0:20:03I'm not sure this is enough to make me implement it.
0:20:07It'd be pretty simple,
0:20:07it's not really like an investment complaint.
0:20:11I kinda wanna see how this plays out,
0:20:14but I think it's definitely a move in the right direction
0:20:17to kind of understand and hear what the community
0:20:22saying and I find that very encouraging that they listen to these complaints and I think
0:20:27with a pretty good solution for it, you know, they have to render on their side to make
0:20:32it work but I think showing the URL the way they are is definitely a step in the right
0:20:36direction so I'm kind of with Federica, I want to kind of see where this goes but so
0:20:41far I like these changes and I think that it shows that they are listening to the people
0:20:45who actually make this content.
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0:22:48It was a monumental day over here in my office as I am now the proud owner of Gigabit Internet.
0:22:59So jealous.
0:23:01There is a company that is, I had never heard of this company before.
0:23:06They are called Hyperoptic and I had a leaflet put in my postbox and they basically said
0:23:14this is our service, your apartment building has been wired with fibre.
0:23:21Call us, we'll come and install it and you can choose either 20 meg, 100 meg or a gigabit.
0:23:29And I was like okay, I'll call you immediately.
0:23:34And I arranged it and they came today to install it and it was a whole big thing.
0:23:40They had to bring a cable into my house which seemed kind of weird, right?
0:23:44Like drilling a hole in the wall to bring a cable in from the hallway outside to the
0:23:49apartment building.
0:23:50It was a very peculiar process.
0:23:52And they set up all of the hardware and then I was sad because I ran speed tests and I
0:23:58was getting like 70 down and 20 up.
0:24:01I was like, this is not what was promised.
0:24:04So I spent the morning trying to work out what was going on.
0:24:07This is a tale of weird networking, by the way,
0:24:11just to set this stage.
0:24:13And I couldn't get it to work,
0:24:16and I tried it over ethernet, like on a Macbook,
0:24:19on a Dina's Macbook Pro.
0:24:20And then I contacted the customer service,
0:24:23and I was like, what's going on?
0:24:24Like, I'm not even getting 100 meg,
0:24:27and I'm paying for a gig here.
0:24:28Like, you know, what's happening?
0:24:31It wasn't until after I sent the messages to the customer service team over
0:24:35Twitter DM that I realised the way that I was connecting to
0:24:39Ethernet was via an adapter, like a USB
0:24:44adapter. And I was like, I wonder if that will cause any problems.
0:24:48It turns out, yes, it's limited to 100 gigabytes.
0:24:52And so I couldn't test the speed.
0:24:57I had no way of testing the speed barring taking my unplugging my iMac taking out to
0:25:03the hallway because it was all installed in the hallway because it has to be put in a
0:25:06specific place because they need to put their own socket in there that kind of stuff it
0:25:09has in it they have all of these different things that they have to do to make it work
0:25:15so I then went to Amazon and I ordered some stuff like buy a prime now and I got this
0:25:22this router and I got like a little Wi-Fi extender because I'm not sure what it is I'm
0:25:26going to be doing. So I got out of this older router a TP-Link AC 1900 whatever
0:25:34that means. Oh yeah that one. Everyone's favorite. Oh yeah yeah yeah. And this was just from
0:25:38some googling and like looking at some reviews and stuff like that to try and
0:25:42find something that could deliver up to a gigabit in bandwidth right. By the way
0:25:48I know I'm butchering all of the gigabyte gigabit stuff like it doesn't
0:25:51matter you know what I mean right like everyone knows what I'm talking about
0:25:54about here right like who can keep track of this stuff it arrived I set it all up
0:25:59and now I have insane Wi-Fi speeds so I was doing some more research and their
0:26:05hardware I forgot to mention is the hardware that hyperoptic provides that
0:26:09though the Wi-Fi speed is capped it's like G or something I don't think or N
0:26:14but basically it's capped to like a hundred megabytes so which I find it's a
0:26:20little bit stupid to be honest. It's like you're offering Gigabit Internet but I
0:26:25have to have it physically connected to any device to get that so I went for
0:26:30some I went I tried to find a router that could give it to me and so now like
0:26:34I ran a speed test earlier and I had 500 up 500 down and I've run some other
0:26:40tests and it's like 600 down and 500 up and it's incredible. I uploaded a 2
0:26:49you
0:27:02and I still need to tinker with some stuff.
0:27:05Like currently I can only connect one device to it.
0:27:08Like I'm working through some problems,
0:27:10but honestly I don't care what I have to do.
0:27:13I don't care how many devices I need
0:27:16to plug into this house.
0:27:18- That's awesome.
0:27:19- I don't care about like just how bad
0:27:21I have to convince Adina that it's okay
0:27:23that there are like 40 routers in the hallway.
0:27:27We're gonna find a way to make this work everyone
0:27:30because this kind of speed is mind boggling.
0:27:35- So as you were talking, I just looked it up on Google.
0:27:38I searched for Rome Gigabit.
0:27:41And I found this company called Unidata Giga Fiber.
0:27:44So--
0:27:47- They only went for all of the words with their name.
0:27:49- Unidata Giga Fiber.
0:27:52And they have a webpage where you need to send your info
0:27:56and then they're gonna tell you
0:27:58if your area is covered by the gigafiber.
0:28:01So I just quickly, I used the auto-fill of Safari,
0:28:06which is pretty awesome, I should say.
0:28:07Anyway, I submitted my info and now I'm waiting
0:28:10for an email that's kind of weird
0:28:12that they cannot check on the database online.
0:28:14- They should just know, right?
0:28:15- They will send me probably a letter, "Dear Federico."
0:28:18I don't know.
0:28:19I'm waiting for information.
0:28:21I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna get gigabit fiber in my home,
0:28:25but what's the harm in trying?
0:28:28So I'm very jealous and happy for you especially,
0:28:32because I know, Myke, you've been waiting
0:28:33for fast internet for so many years.
0:28:36- And now I have all of it.
0:28:38- That screenshot that you sent us, it is incredible.
0:28:43- Yeah, I'm very excited about this.
0:28:47I know that there are ways around the problems
0:28:49that I'm currently facing.
0:28:50I know that there is a route,
0:28:52like the company has got documents on it.
0:28:55will allow you to use your own hardware but like I might need to work with them
0:29:00a little bit to try and get some switches flipped and or I'm you know I'm
0:29:04gonna try and just plug in something into the hardware that they bought me to
0:29:07see if that does anything like this is gonna take some tinkering because I'm
0:29:11wanting to do some stuff that is outside of the norm but this is like like I
0:29:18tried downloading the Godfather from iTunes it's like a 8 on 9 gigabyte movie
0:29:24and it was like, it'll be done in four minutes.
0:29:27It's like this is, I don't care what I have to do.
0:29:29- Imagine how much faster it would be
0:29:31if you ran ethernet to your iMac
0:29:33and weren't limited by the wireless.
0:29:36- I know, I'm thinking,
0:29:37I tell you what I'm thinking about trying,
0:29:39'cause I've never, I have mixed reports of this.
0:29:42The power line stuff?
0:29:45- No.
0:29:45- No, you don't think about that?
0:29:47What is your problem with the power line stuff?
0:29:48- The AC will be faster.
0:29:49If you get 802.11ac, you'll be better off.
0:29:52- Okay, that's what the hardware
0:29:54that I've bought, the additional hardware that I bought is AC. Yeah that will be
0:29:59better than the powerline stuff. Networking is horrific is what I've
0:30:03discovered. It is disgusting and terrible and it's not for humans to understand
0:30:07and I hate to know. Just fly me over. I pay for Comcast business class in my house. It's the
0:30:13fastest thing I can get. There's no cap. Jason's been
0:30:18talking about a lot of upgrade about the gigabyte cap on residential Comcast and
0:30:21should just pay for business class. But I get 60 down and 15 up. Like that's pretty
0:30:27much my average. I think I pay for like 60/20 maybe so I don't quite get the upload I'm
0:30:31supposed to get. But it's consistent but I too have plugged my address into different
0:30:39fiber things. So AT&T and Comcast have both announced residential fiber in Memphis and
0:30:45my address is in like both of their systems and whoever gets to me first I will buy fiber
0:30:50from them. But it's just it's frustrating that that options are so limited and
0:30:56here in the US like there are only a handful of companies that offer like
0:31:00anything better than DSL. And so for me I have Comcast and I have AT&T U-verse but
0:31:06AT&T U-verse caps out at like 24 down so it's not really a competitor to you know
0:31:13Comcast at 60 or more so they're definitely like limited options it's all
0:31:19about where you live and you know I've got friends in towns with Google fiber
0:31:23that's available two blocks in their house but not where they are like all
0:31:26this stuff is so expensive to put in and difficult to put in it's very slow to
0:31:30roll out but I'm happy for you Myke and a little more than a little jealous but
0:31:35um it'll be it'll be a big change to you you you having to tether in the past
0:31:41which you have to do I mean there's one thing that you can take solace in and
0:31:44in that I'm ruined.
0:31:46- Yeah. - Forever, yes.
0:31:48- Like, whenever we move from here in years time,
0:31:53we will be used to this speed.
0:31:55And that, I don't even think in five years
0:31:59it's gonna be as wide,
0:32:01it's still not gonna be widely available,
0:32:03'cause it's like it's brand new infrastructure
0:32:04in a lot of instances.
0:32:06So, I'm trying not to think about that,
0:32:10and just enjoy the speeds I have.
0:32:13Myke, we had a little bit of follow-out.
0:32:14You, speaking of upgrade, on yesterday's episode,
0:32:19episode 127, spoke to Jason about some,
0:32:24so numbers you came up with.
0:32:25And I'm gonna try to paraphrase or try to boil down
0:32:28your conversation 'cause I know you got some stuff
0:32:30you wanna fill in.
0:32:32You looked at the sales numbers of iPads versus Mac
0:32:36and basically kind of drew a line where the current OS
0:32:43supported so on the iPad that's about four years ago on the Mac that's closer
0:32:48to what like six years ago
0:32:49yeah 2009 2010 is kind of as old as a Mac can be to still be able to run Sierra
0:32:56right it's actually kind of split there a couple of nine models so you you look
0:33:01at the sales numbers across the quarters that fall within the you know the most
0:33:06recently supported devices which i think is a smart way of doing it trying to
0:33:10come up with a number of how many iPads are out there, hypothetically, that can run iOS
0:33:1510, and then how many Macs out there that can, hypothetically, run Mac OS Sierra. And
0:33:21the numbers, of course, are what anyone paying attention should expect. The iPad drastically
0:33:28outnumbers the Mac. I'm actually opening your spreadsheet now.
0:33:32252 million iPads and up to 133 million Macs.
0:33:36- Okay, so the iPad is roughly twice as big,
0:33:40and if not a little bit more.
0:33:43And that's something that if you look at the sales numbers
0:33:45in any particular quarter, that kind of plays out,
0:33:49that the iPad more or less, twice as big.
0:33:52And in your, I think your math of sound,
0:33:57I think the way you go about this is sound,
0:33:59Jason pointed out, was it Benedict Evans
0:34:01did a similar thing recently?
0:34:04So you're a fancy analysis guy now.
0:34:09Yeah, good luck with that.
0:34:10And the conclusion you drew is that if,
0:34:15at this point the iPad's way bigger
0:34:18and Apple should treat it as such
0:34:22and put the investment into it as such
0:34:24that it is much bigger than the Mac.
0:34:27And I can't really argue with any of that.
0:34:33I don't know if I feel like I summed up your argument well, but I want to get into it a little bit
0:34:38If you feel like I've done it justice
0:34:40Yeah, I mean that there are a couple of additional points that I think really drive that home
0:34:46And there's something Jason said that I really liked where he said that
0:34:49You know quite succinctly the iPad is Apple's second biggest computer platform
0:34:53by unit sales
0:34:56And another one like something else I found interesting was in 2016 alone
0:35:02Apple sold 45 million iPads compared to 18 million max
0:35:05And this is in a time when everybody's saying that the iPads on decline and the iPads dying and the iPad is useless and nobody needs
0:35:11Them or wants them
0:35:13That's what I feel is like the general rhetoric
0:35:15in blogs and on other podcasts where
0:35:19typically me and Federico are not part of and
0:35:22It's you know, all I was trying to do is like I'm not trying to make a point to say that
0:35:30The iPad is the ultimate device and everybody should use it. It's it's more that like I think we need to be aware of
0:35:37The fact that it is a very popular device and those sales numbers
0:35:43My feeling is more people work on an iPad than we think that is like just a conclusion
0:35:50I put trues to draw from this is that that with this just a pure sales numbers and how they differ
0:35:56I would expect that the number of people that use their Macs that they buy to work on and use their iPads that they buy to
0:36:03Work on is closer than we think and also like what people actually tend to really use computers for like
0:36:10They're not all used to code applications and develop websites
0:36:15like
0:36:16People buy their computers for the reasons that they use them and that can be defined as work because they are working on them
0:36:22Whatever it is, they're doing it doesn't mean they're doing their job on them
0:36:26But they're doing whatever they do on them and I feel like that there are more people that buy iPads for this purpose
0:36:33Then we believe there to be and I think I wanted to try and just outline this with some of the actual data the hard
0:36:40statistics to say like
0:36:42We all agree that the iPad needs work
0:36:44Apple need to put that work in because at this point I really
0:36:50Honestly don't think Mac OS needs that much more done to it
0:36:56iPad needs it.
0:36:59Well I think I have a problem with that sentence we come back to. I think you can
0:37:03have both but I think your overall idea that Apple needs to treat the iPad more
0:37:09importantly than it seems to be especially on the software side is
0:37:13definitely like I'm on board with that that the last time we got anything
0:37:19really viable was OS 9 and that it is still in the shadow of the iPhone as far
0:37:26as software development from Apple itself and I think I think you're
0:37:29absolutely right that that's a problem. Here's what I think there's a as Myke's
0:37:35numbers show there's a silent majority of people who need to buy a computer
0:37:40when they need to do so they get an iPad but those people don't go on tech blogs
0:37:45don't go on podcasts to talk about it. They don't even browse Twitter. Just when
0:37:50you step out of the Apple media typical scene that you see how people
0:37:57are using iPads. And to say this doesn't mean that the iPad is perfect or that
0:38:03Apple is doing a good job with keeping up with the software. It's just from a
0:38:08statistical perspective there is a silent majority of people who don't
0:38:13record podcasts who don't write blogs, they use iPads, they mind your own
0:38:18business and they get actual work done on the iPad. Again, that doesn't imply
0:38:23that the iPad is great, or I mean the iPad is great, but the iPad is perfect
0:38:27and there couldn't be better, it's just people do use them and people, you know,
0:38:33we could argue they keep them around for a long time, but we talked
0:38:38about this before, I have several examples of friends who use iPads for
0:38:41things that you've done here on this show or other shows or other websites,
0:38:46and I think Myke's point to take a look at the numbers and to kind of try to
0:38:52extrapolate a theory out of that, I think it totally works. And the
0:38:58conclusion is the Mac is great, the iPad is great, they cater to different types
0:39:02of people, but there are more people buying iPads than Macs. Probably because
0:39:06they're cheaper, I don't know, probably because the same tasks can be done on a
0:39:09a cheaper device that could be the reason I don't know but those are the
0:39:13numbers and you know again it's so hard to try and draw anything from them
0:39:18because Apple doesn't give that information it's all of it is guesswork
0:39:22but I wanted to look at this because for some reason in my brain I just assumed
0:39:29that Apple sold more Macs than iPads I don't know why I thought this but like
0:39:35It's just the way that the tone is set.
0:39:39I get that. And I feel like
0:39:43there's an unwritten rule in the
0:39:47Apple media space that 1 max sold
0:39:51equals 3 iPads. I feel like
0:39:55that's the general consensus because if you sell 5 million Macs that's still more impressive than 12 million iPads.
0:39:59For some reason. Because it's stable.
0:40:03- Yeah. - Right, okay.
0:40:04- And, hmm, I think that,
0:40:08I mean, I think the whole notion that like,
0:40:11for one to win, the other has to lose is just stupid, right?
0:40:15Like, the idea that, and like, you know,
0:40:17I've written blog posts, I think a lot of something
0:40:19you'd have to bleep for one of them,
0:40:20about macOS being the tag-along operating system to iOS,
0:40:24and some people really got mad at me about that,
0:40:26but like, I'm as diehard a Mac user as it comes, right?
0:40:30And I have no problem accepting that the iPad sells more
0:40:35and that Apple views it as the future of computing
0:40:38for some types of consumers.
0:40:41That does not have to mean that the Mac goes away.
0:40:44Now, unfortunately, a lot of the press thinks that
0:40:49that's untrue, that if the iPad is the future of computing,
0:40:53it should work a certain way,
0:40:55or it should sell in certain numbers,
0:40:57or that because of that the Mac is going to fade away
0:41:01into history, and I just don't see that being true.
0:41:03Apple can do both.
0:41:05Now what Apple needs to do is prove that they can do both.
0:41:08That the Mac is on this annual software cycle,
0:41:11the iPad is on an annual software cycle,
0:41:14but it is, the iPad is kind of really every other year
0:41:19at this point.
0:41:20We saw some stuff with iOS 7, we saw stuff with iOS 9,
0:41:2310 didn't get anything.
0:41:25And Apple needs to prove that,
0:41:28and a whole bunch of different areas, right,
0:41:29that it can walk and chew gum at the same time
0:41:31because Apple really sucks at that, currently.
0:41:33They focus on one thing and then put it on the shelf
0:41:36and focus on something else.
0:41:38And they need to be better at getting
0:41:40all these things updating on a regular basis.
0:41:43And maybe that means that macOS comes off an annual cycle.
0:41:47Most Mac users I know would be actually
0:41:49would be okay with that.
0:41:52Maybe it means that they need to separate the iPhone and iPad operating systems internally
0:41:59more, right?
0:42:00Or still the iPad is running sort of this weird fork of iOS and like maybe, you know,
0:42:05maybe it's time that has its own team and maybe it does.
0:42:07We don't know that for sure, but it's sure seems like iPad features are kind of second
0:42:12to the rest of iOS and maybe it needs some more specifically focused resources.
0:42:19But at the end of the day, we can all get along.
0:42:23Just because the iPad is selling more from the Mac
0:42:26doesn't mean the Mac's going away.
0:42:27Just because the iPad sales continue to fall,
0:42:29which is something we should talk about,
0:42:30it still hasn't found level ground,
0:42:33doesn't mean that it's failed,
0:42:34doesn't mean that it is the dream
0:42:37of the future of computing is broken.
0:42:40It means that they sold a whole bunch to a bunch of people
0:42:44who haven't replaced them yet.
0:42:46And maybe they sold them to a bunch of people
0:42:48are never going to buy another one again. Like, those people are out there too. But
0:42:52it, it, as long as it finds its number at some point, then I think that's fine. I don't
0:42:57think it's super, super problematic quite yet. I mean, it's bad, right? Like, the number's
0:43:02falling. If you look at this spreadsheet Myke did, the numbers start way bigger than they
0:43:07are now. But they'll, they'll figure that out. I think it will level off someplace above
0:43:12the map.
0:43:13What I don't get is exactly what you mentioned, like the need for one of the two to be a winner.
0:43:20Why there's a need to be a single winning platform in this thing. I just don't get it.
0:43:29The Mac is great, right? I don't use it, but whenever I need to use a computer, because there's something that iOS cannot do,
0:43:37The Mac is fantastic, like I had to use a PC lately and my god it was awful, right?
0:43:45But I just don't get this obsession with having to declare a winner in this...
0:43:51It's not even a battle, it's not even a run, it's a...
0:43:55I mean, the more computers Apple sells the better, whether it's an iPhone or an iPad or a Mac.
0:44:01And to an extent you could argue that as software moves towards services it becomes even more irrelevant
0:44:09which
0:44:11software you use as long as you access a service from an Apple computer.
0:44:17So when it's starting to be like the main software is in the cloud, right? So you use Apple Music, use iCloud, use Apple News.
0:44:26Maybe you like the tablet more, I like the phone more, and Myke likes the computer with the keyboard, and it's fine.
0:44:33So I think we got stuck,
0:44:35as bloggers and podcasters and everyone else, we got stuck on this metaphor that Steve Jobs used with the tracks and the PCs.
0:44:43It was beautiful, really. Great idea.
0:44:45Beautifully conveyed. But we got stuck on this
0:44:49parallel between the two and having to choose one.
0:44:54And I think the majority of people will switch to tablets. That's what I think.
0:45:00Actually, if we had to pick a single winning device, that would be the smartphone.
0:45:07There's no contest. The iPhone has absolutely destroyed everything else.
0:45:15So if we really want to have this discussion of what is winning right now, that's the iPhone.
0:45:20And you have no idea, I think a lot of people have no idea how many things users do on iPhones.
0:45:27It's just incredible, right?
0:45:29But then if we start talking, so we cannot mention the iPhone because it's a phone, we're talking about computers,
0:45:36okay, let's assume that the iPhone is another computer.
0:45:39What's the problem with having to debate whether people need to use iPads or Macs?
0:45:48I think as long as we move from traditional software and OSes to services to iCloud and whatever else is coming from Apple,
0:45:58I think this discussion is totally irrelevant. It leads us nowhere.
0:46:03If anything, we need to discuss how can they be better, because there's always going to be people who want a big screen with a keyboard,
0:46:10and there's always going to be people who like me and Myke, they want a piece of glass that they hold with their hands.
0:46:15There's always people who like pizza and people who like pasta.
0:46:18So do we need to pick one or can we just focus on making better pizza and pasta?
0:46:22That's how I look at it.
0:46:23So let's just focus on the things that the iPad needs to be better
0:46:28and especially the things that the Mac needs to improve that.
0:46:32And I think we'll be fine because in the end we're buying Apple stuff
0:46:36and we're using Apple services, we're signing up for Apple services,
0:46:40we're paying subscriptions, so everything will work out.
0:46:44That's my view. I don't get this "Oh, the Mac is doomed" or "Oh, the iPad is doomed". I just don't get it.
0:46:50Yeah, I mean I think in particular this past season of this has been played up a little bit due to the lack of Mac hardware, right?
0:47:01That there was... I mean the Mac Pro is still an issue, right? There's no getting around that.
0:47:06But there was angst over the new MacBook Pros and some of it was justified and a lot of it wasn't.
0:47:11there's a lot of upset people about Pro hardware,
0:47:14and I'm one of them, right?
0:47:15Like when I upset my studio,
0:47:17if there had been a Mac Pro that was worth buying,
0:47:19I would have bought that over an iMac.
0:47:21But there wasn't, so I didn't have an iMac.
0:47:23And I love my iMac and I'm really happy with it,
0:47:25but it would have been nice to have an option
0:47:26to look at something more powerful.
0:47:28But there's not, and there's a real problem there,
0:47:30and Apple needs to, I think not only fix the Mac Pro,
0:47:34either update it or get rid of it,
0:47:37but they need to tell us what happened, right?
0:47:40point they owe their pro users an explanation because not knowing is worse
0:47:44than you know not not knowing. I really messed that up. And so there was a lot
0:47:51there's a lot of angst around off that and you see the iPad numbers come out
0:47:54and they're twice as big as the Mac but they're still falling right so it's kind
0:47:59of easy to pick on the iPad and there are a lot of people who can't get their
0:48:03work done on it for whatever reason. There are a lot of people who just like
0:48:07the Mac more and like all that stuff kind of got mixed together and for
0:48:12everybody I think you're absolutely right as we move to more services the OS and
0:48:15hardware we use really don't matter as much right like it matters more that all
0:48:19my data is on that device and that has to do with services and we are kind of
0:48:24returning to a world of like thin clients and you can pick the platform
0:48:28you want and as long as it has the apps and the services you want you can get
0:48:31your work done we are returning to that world for a lot of people right that
0:48:35There are going to be those of us who choose to do our work on the Mac or people who have
0:48:39to do it on the Mac for whatever reason.
0:48:42But the average consumer has more options than ever and that's good.
0:48:48It's good for people to be able to say, "Hey, you know what?
0:48:50Traditional laptop form factor doesn't work for me for whatever reason.
0:48:54The accessibility is better on iOS.
0:48:56I like the hardware better.
0:48:57The software is easier to understand."
0:48:59Those are all good things for people to have options.
0:49:05What nerds need to understand, including the three of us,
0:49:08is that those options don't have to be threatening.
0:49:11We don't have to be afraid that the Mac is going away.
0:49:15When you actually look at the evidence,
0:49:17yeah, there's some things in the Mac line they need to fix,
0:49:19but honestly, there have always been things in the Mac line
0:49:21Apple needs to fix.
0:49:22I mean, if we had done this podcast 15 years ago,
0:49:24I would be ranting about the 256 megabytes of RAM
0:49:27Apple ships when everyone else is shipping a gig.
0:49:30There have always been things in the Mac line
0:49:32people have justifiably complained about. But that's fine, right? That's part of it.
0:49:39And we can move forward from this knowing that you know what the iPad is out there,
0:49:42it's doing well, there's concern about the sales numbers but you know assuming that that
0:49:48strains itself out, then Apple has these two platforms and one is geared towards a certain
0:49:54type of user and another is geared towards a different type of user and there's lots
0:49:58of overlap in the middle and that's all just fine.
0:50:02And I think that everyone could take a breath
0:50:06and we can move on.
0:50:10- Shall we?
0:50:11- Let's move on.
0:50:12So speaking of Macs a little bit,
0:50:14this came out right after we recorded,
0:50:17y'all recorded, a report in Bloomberg by Mark Gurman
0:50:20saying that Apple is developing ARM chips
0:50:24and basically to add to Macs
0:50:26to lessen their dependence on Intel.
0:50:28And this has all been covered a bunch.
0:50:30I don't necessarily want to cover the article again.
0:50:33Because of some things that have come out of the article.
0:50:37For me, at least, the first thing I think of
0:50:39is the PowerPC to Intel transition,
0:50:42which was very much a rip off the band-aid type thing.
0:50:47They moved the whole platform in like a year.
0:50:49They actually migrated all their systems to Intel
0:50:52faster than they said they would.
0:50:53When they first announced it,
0:50:54they said it was gonna take like a year and a half
0:50:55for two years, it took a year.
0:50:58And it went very smoothly.
0:50:59I was a Mac user at the time.
0:51:02I was a genius, you know, kind of in the second wave
0:51:05of Intel machines, so we're still servicing lots
0:51:07of Power PCs, and it was fine,
0:51:09people didn't really have problems.
0:51:11It was very, very well done.
0:51:13Apple did a great job in that transition.
0:51:15Really, it's, I think it went pretty much perfectly.
0:51:19This, though, is really different.
0:51:22So with that, when they replaced the PowerBook
0:51:24the MacBook Pro. The PowerBook went away, the MacBook Pro was here and that was it.
0:51:30You were running an Intel machine and you had Rosetta to handle the software
0:51:32that was still you know on PowerBC hadn't been updated for the Intel codebase
0:51:39yet. And it was it was like I said it was perfectly fine perfectly smooth and it
0:51:43was fast. You bought a new computer you were on Intel. And this is really different.
0:51:48This this story is saying Apple is going to be using ARM chips inside Intel
0:51:53Intel base Macs to take over a certain functionality.
0:51:56And so the first example of course is already here.
0:51:58It's right here on my desk.
0:51:59The touch bar is run by what they call the T1 chip.
0:52:03My understanding, our understanding is that
0:52:04basically it's an Apple watch.
0:52:06And it is handling the touch ID stuff, the touch bar,
0:52:10and it's kind of its own little arm computer
0:52:12inside the MacBook Pro.
0:52:13And the two computer systems talk to each other
0:52:16and everything's hunky-dory.
0:52:17And then you, like, you would never know
0:52:19it was a separate computer in there.
0:52:21super fast like it's really well integrated and so the the narrative has
0:52:26become well what else could Apple take over from Intel with an ARM chip and
0:52:30power nap is brought up in the article I'm not sure I really buy that I mean
0:52:34power nap is already really efficient if you're not aware if your Mac is asleep
0:52:38if it's a notebook even if it's unplugged if you set set up this way it
0:52:43can do things like fetch iCloud content check your email I think Dropbox now
0:52:48we'll work with Power Nap I think,
0:52:50where it'll sync stuff in the background, small stuff.
0:52:53And so when you open your computer
0:52:56and wake it up, it has new mail,
0:52:58and your calendars are up to date and that sort of thing.
0:53:00Messages still doesn't support it,
0:53:02so if you're like me and use your laptop
0:53:04every couple times a week,
0:53:06the first three minutes is messages catching up,
0:53:08which is super annoying.
0:53:10But Power Nap handles a lot of the other type of stuff.
0:53:12And they've said, "Well, what if we move that to ARM?"
0:53:15I don't know, I mean,
0:53:17Macs already sleep for like 30 days, you know, on battery power, they seem super efficient.
0:53:20But the idea is that they could use ARM for other, you know, little things.
0:53:24And I just find that really interesting because it's so different from PowerPC to Intel.
0:53:29And two that it is, if Apple does this, then they can really like tailor these chips to
0:53:34their strengths.
0:53:35And if you look at something like the the iPad Pro with its or excuse me, the the iPhone
0:53:42seven with its chipset, you know, too fast cores, too slow cores, and they kind of balance
0:53:46things out and if the screen is not on it's using the slow ones to fetch stuff in the
0:53:50background.
0:53:51Like this whole idea of Apple customizing chips for the application they're going to
0:53:55be used in and really being able to squeeze every bit of energy efficiency out of them
0:54:01that's really interesting and it could be really different looking than the Switch.
0:54:06Maybe this isn't the Switch to ARM, maybe that Switch isn't going to happen in any sort
0:54:11of nearby timeframe, but it's going to be this slow, gradual evolution where the MacBooks
0:54:20and the MacBook Pros in particular have their Intel base, Intel powered running, you know,
0:54:26Intel code, you know, x86 stuff on them, but little bits of the system are handled by little
0:54:33like tiny embedded arm computers.
0:54:35And that's just really fascinating to me.
0:54:37Do you think that this suggests that there will eventually be another transition or do
0:54:42you think it's just going to be a case of Apple just filling these computers up with
0:54:46more and more system-on-a-chips that they're building or whatever?
0:54:51I kind of view, and I could be wrong, I kind of view this as like a stopgap from a complete
0:54:56switch.
0:54:57If they're going to be able to make these machines more energy efficient and still keep
0:55:02all the benefits of being on Intel which to recap very quickly virtualization so
0:55:08you can run Windows and Linux and other stuff natively and Thunderbolt. So
0:55:13Thunderbolt is an Intel technology unless they somehow license that and then
0:55:19you know ram it down the throat of an ARM chip.
0:55:21Thunderbolt is Intel and that is really potentially problematic when you just
0:55:26moved your entire pro notebook to thunderbolt and then you have to get rid
0:55:31that they have to replace it with something or they have to license it and figure out
0:55:34how to make it work with ARM.
0:55:36So there's a lot of benefits to staying on Intel.
0:55:39So I view this as Apple kind of warding that off saying look we can take over certain aspects
0:55:44and we can have machines that can be lighter and thinner blah blah blah but are still energy
0:55:48efficient but we still get all the benefits of Intel.
0:55:50I see that working in Apple's favor that they can they can do things with Intel chips that
0:55:55no one else can do because they're augmenting them with these ARM systems on a chip.
0:56:00eventually this leads to an ARM Macbook but I don't think that them doing this
0:56:07necessarily means that is kind of my overall thought today.
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0:57:18of this show and relay FM. Federico.
0:57:24Okay, what have I done?
0:57:25People that use third-party Twitter applications can still have the access of being able to
0:57:32look at somebody's tweets and seeing where they're tweeted from.
0:57:36A long time ago, this was discovered upon you and you embarked on a long love affair,
0:57:45one could say, with the official Twitter app and you defended it for a long time.
0:57:50And then you moved to Tweetbot 4.
0:57:53Yes.
0:57:54But anybody that's been paying attention to you recently will notice that you, uh,
0:57:59you, you, your, another affair has begun, uh, we're too terrific.
0:58:03Well, you know, I like to try different things. You like to tweet around?
0:58:09I do actually. And I, I think it's, um, it's useful to me to do this. Um, I used to be, uh,
0:58:22into the official Twitter app, because it showed a lot of promise.
0:58:26And that was before... that was 2014, it was kind of, you know, before Twitter really got awful.
0:58:35I feel like the need for a third-party client has grown exponentially, especially during the
0:58:43most recent political season in Europe and in the United States. And I feel like the official app has
0:58:50not allowed people to filter out a lot of bad things going on on the service.
0:58:54Plus, that's from a social network perspective, but from a software perspective on the iPad,
0:59:04the Twitter app is really, really ridiculous. And around the same time, the iPad Pro,
0:59:11you know, Apple was working on this bigger iPad and Tapbot Studio came out with Tweetbot 4,
0:59:19which has this beautiful split column layout on the iPad which really takes advantage of the bigger display.
0:59:25So I used Tweetbot for almost two years. I love Tweetbot. I set up hundreds of filters and all my little things.
0:59:36I even have workflows for Tweetbot. So I really like the app. It's clean and it's fast.
0:59:43But I've been keeping an eye on Twitter Refic because I feel like the ICON Factory is doing excellent work on iOS.
0:59:49We saw the app Linea last week, they're doing lots of iMessage stickers.
0:59:54And I feel like the ICON Factory is really, especially over the past couple of years,
0:59:59is back on a frequent update cycle, which I really like.
1:00:03I like developers that are committed to the platform, I like developers that release frequent updates.
1:00:08That's something that I like. It makes me feel good about using an app that is frequently updated.
1:00:14And Twitterific, I feel like there's some stigmas about the app in the sense that people think it's a Twitter client for people who really are not power users.
1:00:28And that couldn't be more true because there's lots of powerful features in Twitterific.
1:00:33Speaking of, I need the ability to filter out tweets. I don't want to see some people, I don't want to see some topics.
1:00:41Because I follow other websites to get that information. I also don't want to see trolls in my timeline.
1:00:49So, Twitterific has a different implementation of mute settings than Tweetbot. You can muffle or you can mute.
1:00:59What is the difference between these?
1:01:01The difference between muffling and muting is subtle but visually it is important.
1:01:07The Muffle basically silences a keyword, a hashtag, a user or, this is a difference from Tweetbot, a domain.
1:01:17If you want to silence all tweets from, I don't know, macstories.net, you can do that.
1:01:21So you can silence on a domain basis also.
1:01:24But the Muffle doesn't remove the tweet from your timeline outright.
1:01:29it collapses it into a tiny cell with light gray text.
1:01:37So it's a tiny bubble that says if you tap this you will see the tweet, otherwise it's collapsed.
1:01:43So it's a way to show you that your filters are working,
1:01:48that there's tweets that have been hidden from the timeline,
1:01:52but you can still contextually reveal them if you want to.
1:01:56So if you have, for example, a topic that you're not sure you want to completely mute,
1:02:02you can muffle it, and then every once in a while maybe you can tap on "Muffle Tweet"
1:02:07and you can take a look at it before you decide.
1:02:10Are you willing to give some examples of things that you've muffled in the past?
1:02:14So I can try and get an idea as to why you would do this over just muting it?
1:02:19For example, there was a movie that I...
1:02:26So, La La Land, for example.
1:02:28I created a muffle because I didn't want to mute it, but I also didn't want to see tweets
1:02:33about it.
1:02:37So I just created a muffle and I skipped those tweets.
1:02:40And then when I watched the movie, I deleted the muffle.
1:02:44There are just some topics that I don't want to completely remove.
1:02:48I want to get the amount of tweets that people are sending about the topic, but I don't want to read them.
1:02:55It's also a reminder to turn it off when the time is right.
1:02:58Also, yes, exactly. It's a reminder and also it gives me the idea of what people are talking about without having to look at it.
1:03:04I don't know if it makes sense. I think it makes sense in practice, but it's hard to describe.
1:03:08And also, of course, I also have my mute filters and like I mentioned there's a difference between tweetbots.
1:03:14you can mute by domain, which I think is excellent.
1:03:16If you don't want to mute a single person,
1:03:19you don't want to mute a single hashtag or keyword,
1:03:22you just want to make sure that anything
1:03:24that comes from a specific website
1:03:25never finds its way to your timeline.
1:03:28That's a great way to do so.
1:03:28- Can you not do that with keywords in Tweetbot?
1:03:31- You could, but it's, that's my second point.
1:03:34You could do the same with keywords,
1:03:36but it's just more convenient in Twitter if it,
1:03:38because you don't have to go into the keyword screen
1:03:41and type it out manually.
1:03:43In the timeline you can tap on a button and it opens a pop-up with a bunch of options.
1:03:48It says "What do you want to muffle?" and it recognizes usernames, hashtags and domain names.
1:03:55So you can just choose visually from a menu what you want to hide.
1:04:00If you want you can go into a dedicated page, type out the keyword and muffle or mute manually.
1:04:06But it's just easier.
1:04:08I'm scrolling my timeline, I see something that I don't want to see, like a hashtag or a website that I don't like,
1:04:14I just open the menu and I do it from there, so I don't have to switch between pages. It's very convenient.
1:04:20What I don't like is that one of the best features of Tweetbot is you can create essentially timed rules.
1:04:29You can say "I want to mute this person for two days because they're being super annoying about this event that I don't care about."
1:04:36or "I want to mute this person for a week as a punishment."
1:04:40I don't know how many people do that.
1:04:42Still, you can do that in Tweet, but you cannot do the same in Twitterrific.
1:04:46And I do miss that functionality.
1:04:48There's also something else that I like, which is the Media Viewer in Twitterrific.
1:04:54There's this feature called Center Stage that is basically a glorified media timeline.
1:05:01lets you swipe, lets you move across images, videos, GIFs, it's really nice.
1:05:07But especially I like two smaller details, and that's you can swipe horizontally on the screen
1:05:16to reverse and advance a GIF, so you can basically alter the loop, you can move it backwards and forwards
1:05:25with your finger, which is super polished. And the same works with videos, so if you want, you know,
1:05:30There's no traditional video controls, so you just need to swipe and you can start over or you can move a few seconds forwards.
1:05:37That's really nice.
1:05:38But also when you play a video on Twitterrific, it doesn't pause music or it doesn't pause podcasts.
1:05:44It just lowers the level of the background audio and it plays the video at the same time.
1:05:51It's kind of like on a computer really where you can listen to multiple things at the same time.
1:05:55So that's really convenient because you know, usually I open Twitter videos of dogs. There's not a lot of sound going on
1:06:03But there's still like I don't know a dog barking for example, I can have that next to my music
1:06:08I mean, it's kind of cute. Let me ask you
1:06:10What is the utility of being able to reverse a gif with your finger?
1:06:14Oh, it's nice too if you want to catch a detail or a funny expression
1:06:19I think it's just funny to not especially for long
1:06:23GIFs, it's great not to have to wait for the end of the loop or to just close it and tap it again
1:06:30You know if there's like a funny face in the middle that you want to see you can just swipe backwards
1:06:35I think it's that's that's cute. That's how I use a feature. It's a power
1:06:39And finally I want to mention how
1:06:43Twitterific, this is not like an ad it's just a
1:06:48Federico tries apps, it's a new segment
1:06:52It's gotten a lot better, I feel like, in recent updates, like the performance of the timeline
1:06:57used to be, if you have hundreds of mute filters, which I do, the performance in the timeline used to be
1:07:04poor, used to be all stuttery and not smooth at all. Now it's much better with the last update that came out last week.
1:07:11And also you can see in the mute filters page
1:07:15you can see how long ago a filter was last matched.
1:07:21I had, for example, yeah, I had filters for Eurovision 2015.
1:07:26- Didn't even know, man.
1:07:30- That of course I could delete because, you know,
1:07:33we're waiting for the next edition, which I will mute.
1:07:36- Come on.
1:07:37- No.
1:07:38I had filters for all politicians, for example,
1:07:42like guys that are no longer around,
1:07:44not because they're dead,
1:07:45just because they're not famous anymore.
1:07:48So I could delete those filters
1:07:51because they were just sitting there and Twitterrific tells me that.
1:07:56So I think there's a... my conclusion is this.
1:08:00There's a lot of Twitter power users, people like me who use Twitter for...
1:08:04in the tech bubble, sort of, or maybe they follow some video game people
1:08:10that assume that Tweetbot is THE app for power users.
1:08:15I think Twitterrific is just as powerful, some different things,
1:08:21Some things I don't like, but it's a very, very solid alternative from a company that I really like,
1:08:27because they're good people and they release frequent updates, they do good work,
1:08:31so I think it's worth checking out again. That's what I have to say.
1:08:34I have some questions for you.
1:08:35Do you run any of the unified timeline stuff?
1:08:38No.
1:08:39Because this has always been like a linchpin of Twitterific, right? Everything in one view.
1:08:43I don't like the idea.
1:08:44I've always found in my testing over the years, especially since more modern apps,
1:08:52like Tweetbot and stuff came out, that Twitterrific seemed like in some ways that the unified timeline
1:08:58was holding it back. It would be able to pull less tweets than other applications and you'd
1:09:03be left with more gaps to fill, like when you tap here to fill the gaps in your timeline.
1:09:08And I'd always assume this is probably because they're polling the API more to fill the timelines in the way that they do them.
1:09:16Is this the case still? Do you find yourself having to tap that button 20 times in the morning to get the evening's tweets?
1:09:26No, like Tweetbot, I find that I need to tap it a couple of times to load 400 tweets, for example.
1:09:36I disabled a unified timeline right away. In fact once you download
1:09:43Twitterrific there's likely a bit of setup that you need to do. You need to
1:09:47disable the unified timeline, especially if you're coming from Tweetbot so you
1:09:50have a certain mindset, you're used to certain features. You disable the
1:09:54unified timeline, you choose the system font, maybe you enable dark mode and then
1:09:59you activate iCloud syncing and yeah I think that's it.
1:10:04So they have their iCloud syncing now?
1:10:06Yeah, it works well.
1:10:08Across iOS devices?
1:10:10There's no Mac app, sadly.
1:10:12And I've always as well, like we're terrific, just with the way that the UI's built, been terrified every time I send a DM, because it just feels like I'm tweeting.
1:10:23Oh no, that's much better now. There's a proper threaded conversation.
1:10:27So I think it was added last year to much rejoice from a lot of people.
1:10:32It's finally normal.
1:10:33It doesn't look like a tweet anymore.
1:10:34It's just a blind fear every time I've said anything.
1:10:38It's fine, it's fine.
1:10:39It looks like a normal private conversation.
1:10:41Alright, so let me ask you then.
1:10:43Do you recommend that I try it again?
1:10:47That's my point.
1:10:50I don't know your Twitter usage, but I feel like personally, at least for me, I don't
1:10:54spend as much time in front of my iPad Pro just browsing Twitter as I used to.
1:10:59If it were like early last year, and this is something that's also related
1:11:06to my toggle time tracking, I've been trying to cut back my Twitter usage,
1:11:10that's another discussion, I feel like if you spend a lot of time working with
1:11:14Twitter, you know, keeping conversations and all that, on the iPad Pro I feel like
1:11:19Tweetbot is a superior app because it's got a better iPad layout. It truly uses the
1:11:24big screen of the iPad Pro with the two columns and this is an area where
1:11:30Twitterific is lacking because they do have a sidebar
1:11:33But it's not nearly as useful as the column in Tweetbot
1:11:38There's a sidebar to navigate sections, but there's still a lot of space left on the right where you know
1:11:44Tweetbot basically lets you perform
1:11:48tasking inside the app itself, so you can scroll the timeline and scroll dimensions
1:11:54at the same time. It's kind of like TweetDeck in a way.
1:11:56Yeah, it is.
1:11:57And you cannot do the same with Twitterrific, so if you're an iPad user, you spend a lot
1:12:01of time scrolling the timeline, replying to people, I don't recommend the app. But, if
1:12:09you're like me, I've cut back on your Twitter usage, try not to spend too much time on it,
1:12:16and just catch up on Twitter from your iPhone in the morning and maybe sometime in the evening
1:12:22and reply to a few people and maybe save a few links for later, I think Twitterific is
1:12:27an excellent app.
1:12:29Especially because of these mute filters, not necessarily the functionality of the filters,
1:12:36but the way you can easily create them.
1:12:38I feel like that's really nice, the app is polished, it's fast, it works well, I prefer
1:12:44on the iPhone honestly.
1:12:46- Steven, I'm assuming this is just a flat out,
1:12:50not good for you.
1:12:51- I mean, I just installed it while Federico was talking
1:12:53and it's completely frozen, so.
1:12:55(laughing)
1:12:56It's still not for me.
1:12:57- Oh, wow.
1:12:58- But I mean, it's because there's no Mac component, right?
1:12:59- Yeah, that's the problem.
1:13:00And I mean, Twitter was a great Mac app for a long time
1:13:03and clearly it's not economically feasible
1:13:05for them to continue to make that, which I understand.
1:13:07I mean, it stinks, but I need something that is everywhere
1:13:11and there are a lot of nice things in the iOS app,
1:13:14But I would want all the mute filters and stuff everywhere,
1:13:18which is what keeps me with which we bought.
1:13:20- All right, thanks so much to Pingdom
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1:15:06and relay FM. Another thing that I have noticed which is new and interesting about you Federico
1:15:14is, you know, we send links to each other every now and then. It's typically at the
1:15:18moment news related to the Nintendo Switch. We will send back and forth to each other
1:15:23as we are both in an almost fever pitch as we are less than a month away. Like we are
1:15:28now counting down for weeks until the Nintendo Switch is released which will be a very exciting
1:15:33day for everyone. And every now and then you'll send me a link and it is an Apple news link.
1:15:41And sometimes, I mean who knows where this ends up opening for me because I deleted Apple
1:15:46news from my devices. Sometimes Apple news opens up in a web browser, it takes me to
1:15:51the actual original page. Or sometimes, this has happened, Apple news reinstalls itself
1:15:57and then I start getting notifications. Which is very peculiar, I'm not really 100% sure
1:16:01how that's happening, but that does happen and so I'm wondering are you
1:16:08just an Apple news user now? Like are you using it? What are you using it for? How often do you use it and why?
1:16:14Honestly like a little bit of everything. I didn't like Apple news when it
1:16:21launched in iOS 9. I like it much better in iOS 10 possibly because of the design.
1:16:26I'm a fan of the... I think the Apple music design works better in Apple news
1:16:31than Apple Music, honestly. And I use it because I find that it does a decent job at guessing
1:16:40what I want to read, and it gives me the stories that I would otherwise miss, because I didn't
1:16:51bother to add certain websites to my RSS. Or it shows me websites that I didn't know
1:16:57existed but I end up liking those websites. So basically it gives me recommendations for
1:17:04music I like, Nintendo stuff, PlayStation news, unfortunately some politics a little too much maybe,
1:17:11and Apple news. So there's a heavy focus on US politics right now, of course.
1:17:17Can you stop it from showing you that stuff?
1:17:21You can dislike things, but I'll tell you, the reason why I mute Twitter aggressively
1:17:34is that I'm reading a lot of political news these days. And I'm reading them in Apple
1:17:40News, and I'm also... I think I will end up subscribing to both The Times and The New
1:17:47New Yorker. Those are the two types of publications that I like, you know, for news reporting
1:17:53and for long-form stories. So I'm spending a lot of time actually reading stuff, news
1:17:59from journalists instead of, you know, people retweeting Donald Trump. And I feel like that's
1:18:07a better investment of my time. And I feel like Apple News does a decent job at giving
1:18:13me a mix of everything. I like, you know, I tap on the heart icon every once in a
1:18:20while to train it. I dislike topics when I find something that's truly out of my
1:18:25league, like sports stuff doesn't show up anymore because I've been disliking
1:18:30everything related to sports. It basically told me nothing about the
1:18:35Super Bowl so that was nice. Yeah that was good. I like that it has me
1:18:40notifications you can choose to have news, you can choose to have editorial
1:18:45recommendations or you can choose to get notifications for selected publications
1:18:49that enable the feature like Wired or The Verge they support notifications in
1:18:53Apple news. So do you get notified every time they publish a story? I don't think
1:18:58it's every time I think it's when they decide to push a notification to people
1:19:02that's my understanding like it's not every single story. I would like to
1:19:08subscribe to be able to subscribe to pay for more publications in Apple News
1:19:13there's an option in iOS 10 to subscribe to stuff like I subscribe to the BBC
1:19:19Focus science magazine just to try it out because it's a subscription with the
1:19:25Apple News format but unfortunately there's not enough websites like you
1:19:30cannot subscribe to the Times or the New Yorker or lots of other blogs they don't
1:19:35have Apple news subscriptions. So I would like to have that. There's not much to say
1:19:41really, it's a place where I go, I get a bunch of news, does a decent job, the
1:19:46Apple news format works fine, otherwise it's also okay because it loads from
1:19:51RSS and it does pre-rendering of the in-app WebView. And it's not an RSS
1:19:58replacement, it's a place where I go to when I want to find some topics without
1:20:04without having to worry about my unread badge or having to manage my subscriptions.
1:20:10I just go there, read, tap on the heart icon and that's about it.
1:20:14You're using this alongside your RSS app as well?
1:20:19Yes. In my RSS app I have more of a curated selection of websites that I follow
1:20:26and also independent blogs from people I read and friends.
1:20:30Like for example I read Steven in my RSS reader, not in Apple News.
1:20:36And I do the same for other websites like Darren Fireball or Ben Thompson for example.
1:20:41In Apple News I discover more I would say mainstream news maybe
1:20:45from publications that are very high volume, I don't want to have in my RSS service,
1:20:50so I get a selection of the high volume websites in Apple News
1:20:55because the algorithm knows what I want to see.
1:20:59Whereas my RSS service would just throw 50 articles a day at me. Yeah, that's the difference
1:21:05So you might get like the Verge stories
1:21:08about Apple paintings, but not about
1:21:11Wi-Fi routers
1:21:13Exactly. Yeah, I understand that I can get that I can get behind that like, you know
1:21:18One of the things that I have about my kind of way of getting this stuff is typically through Twitter is I can ignore so
1:21:24many of the headlines. But I remember when I was dealing with this in RSS, it was way
1:21:30more annoying to have those like 25 articles come up because you're kind of in the mode
1:21:35of checking what they all are. It's way easier, at least I find, to kind of skim through and
1:21:40ignore stuff when it's on Twitter than it is when it is in your RSS feed, especially
1:21:45because a lot of these publications add images. So you can very visually see if this is something
1:21:50that interests you as well, like I find anyway on Twitter and maybe on Facebook and stuff
1:21:54like that. Stephen, do you use Apple News at all?
1:21:58I don't. I was just listening to Federico's idea of letting it pick stories for him. I've
1:22:03used RSS for so long. I have a lot of stuff in there that I don't read everything. I kind
1:22:08of have a folder of stuff that if I got time I'll sort through it, but then I have some
1:22:13other folders of stuff I want to read. Every single thing that comes out. Go Mac Stories
1:22:17or other blogs, friends of ours.
1:22:20The thing for me about Apple News is that
1:22:25stuff, like something like the New York Times, for instance,
1:22:30which I pay for, I read on their website,
1:22:34I would want that sort of stuff,
1:22:35that subscription stuff in Apple News,
1:22:37and some of that's just not as fully built out
1:22:40as I would like for it to be.
1:22:42I think the Washington Post and some others are in there,
1:22:46but others are not.
1:22:47And so if it was the place for like,
1:22:50you know, I could subscribe to all my RSS stuff
1:22:53and get all this paid stuff kind of in one place,
1:22:55I may be more willing to look at it,
1:22:57but so far it really hasn't come up as like a big,
1:23:01a big hole in my setup.
1:23:03And maybe that's just because the way I have RSS setup
1:23:07where I have some stuff that I don't read all of it,
1:23:10I sort of skim it.
1:23:11If I don't have time, I just mark it all as read.
1:23:12So for me, it has never been a big deal
1:23:15a big deal. I have it installed on TIN but I don't, very rarely would I say I open it
1:23:22in Perusa and because of that I don't have it you know finely tuned like
1:23:26Federico does. This may be part of my same problem with things like Spotify
1:23:30and like Discover Weekly where I just don't like I want to put things into it
1:23:35and I don't really care to be introduced to other stuff like I have my own way
1:23:39about reading and finding new sites to read. I have my way of going about finding
1:23:43new music and for me some of that suggestion stuff is like it's such a pain to get it trained
1:23:48and even then like it may not I find a bunch of that annoying and so that really doesn't
1:23:52interest me quite quite yet.
1:23:55Yeah I understand that I mean I feel like I wouldn't want to use something like this
1:24:01because I'm very picky about the the stories that I want to come to me and if I'm deciding
1:24:09"Oh I want to just unwind and read some tech news." I don't want to see political stories.
1:24:17It breaks my brain in that way. I choose when I want to go and read that stuff. I will go to the
1:24:25BBC and see what's happening. I really don't like the disruption and the mismatch. Which is one of
1:24:32the reasons I'm very heavy on my mute filters like Federico for tweets and stuff like that.
1:24:38but I don't think that this is something that I would want in a new service either.
1:24:42Especially like notifications and widgets and things like that.
1:24:46This stuff can just be so pervasive
1:24:50in your life and that doesn't really work for me.
1:24:54And I think that's fair. I mean there's another conversation to be had about filter bubble stuff
1:24:58but I agree with you that if you, having stuff
1:25:02like Jump In that you're not expecting. I really hated the news widget in iOS 9
1:25:06there's part of spotlight suggestions
1:25:08and you really couldn't turn it off very easily.
1:25:11I'm glad that's gone.
1:25:12I do think though there is something to be said
1:25:16to have type artists you're not looking for
1:25:18be introduced into your stream.
1:25:20That's one reason I pay for the New York Times
1:25:23and read it and have their app installed so I can get that,
1:25:26but I don't necessarily want that in.
1:25:29My RSS setup is, as you might imagine, a lot of tech.
1:25:34And when I'm in that mind frame,
1:25:36RSS's work for me, right?
1:25:37Like I find things to link to,
1:25:38find things for the shows I'm on,
1:25:40and when I'm gonna sit down with my iPad
1:25:43and like read the news,
1:25:44and I'm gonna go to the New York Times,
1:25:45go to the Washington Post, go to these other sources.
1:25:47And so for me, they're separated,
1:25:49so I totally understand like not wanting
1:25:50to cross those streams.
1:25:52But at the same time, there's benefit to it, right?
1:25:55There's benefit to a system like this
1:25:56that once you train it, it can surface things
1:25:58that it thinks are important to you.
1:26:00You can get a wider variety of sources.
1:26:04You can basically get a wider variety of types of stories.
1:26:08And a lot of people aren't gonna use RSS,
1:26:10most people don't.
1:26:12Most people just, you know, can use the app built in
1:26:14and you say, "Hey, I like this stuff,
1:26:15"I don't like this stuff."
1:26:16And I think a lot of people kind of out in the world,
1:26:20you know, you guys were talking last week
1:26:21about Federico spying on his friends' phones.
1:26:24I see a lot of Apple news links on Twitter and Facebook
1:26:26from friends and family.
1:26:27I think people are using it.
1:26:28I think people are training it to a certain degree,
1:26:31but like that it's built in, like that it's sort of simple,
1:26:33they have all their stuff in one place.
1:26:35And so from like a service perspective,
1:26:38I think it's doing well.
1:26:39And I've got 512 pixels in there.
1:26:41I'm not using the Apple News format stuff.
1:26:42They have a couple RSS feeds for me.
1:26:45I actually just logged into it
1:26:46and my setup is very simple.
1:26:49I don't know how much readership I'm doing in there,
1:26:51but it's easy from a producer standpoint as well
1:26:54to be involved.
1:26:55- All right, that about wraps it up today.
1:26:58If you wanna catch our show notes,
1:27:00go to relay.fm/connected/128.
1:27:03You can find Federico online.
1:27:04He is @vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I,
1:27:07and he's at macstories.net.
1:27:09Steven is at ismh, and he is at 512pixels.net.
1:27:13And I am at iMyke, I-M-Y-K-E.
1:27:15Thank you so much to our sponsors, Encapsula, Pingdom,
1:27:18and Hover for supporting this week's show.
1:27:20And thank you for listening.
1:27:22We'll be back next time.
1:27:23Until then, say goodbye, guys.
1:27:25- Arrivederci.