The Accidental Tech Podcast

170: Casey Beats John, 29–29

 

  that is the challenge of pixel art isn't [TS]

  it to make a picture look good using [TS]

  pixels or we could rotate the pixels 45 [TS]

  degrees and pretends i'm crazy land [TS]

  hey everyone just me for a second we [TS]

  just put up our 2016 t-shirts [TS]

  finally they're only available until [TS]

  june third and they won't be delivered [TS]

  in time 4wd see because we took too long [TS]

  to decide but these are awesome and I [TS]

  think they're gonna be worth the wait [TS]

  so see for yourself at ATP dot FM / [TS]

  shirt [TS]

  thanks a lot hashtag Casey was right [TS]

  maybe it's it's been stunning watching [TS]

  the fallout from fast food gate 2016 [TS]

  which I just coined moments ago a lot of [TS]

  people have been on my side I wouldn't [TS]

  say it's it's overwhelming but the fact [TS]

  that i think the feedback I've seen has [TS]

  been roughly 5050 [TS]

  I'm counting that as a win for me I hit [TS]

  that little bit of my wedding works [TS]

  exactly roughly 5050 and I declare [TS]

  victory now that would John if there's [TS]

  one universal truth to the internet it's [TS]

  that the internet believes that John [TS]

  siracusa can do not know how does not a [TS]

  universe that is fact here its own if [TS]

  perhaps that's neither here nor there [TS]

  the the internet is of the belief that [TS]

  John circus can do no wrong and parts of [TS]

  the internet have said John staircases [TS]

  done wrong and actually it's funny [TS]

  because some people and this is not a [TS]

  joke [TS]

  some people have written in and said and [TS]

  I don't have an exact verbatim quote in [TS]

  front of me but something along the [TS]

  lines up I thought John could never be [TS]

  wrong but he's wrong about this food [TS]

  conversation which has made me so happy [TS]

  so to clarify John being wrong means [TS]

  that people think subway is better than [TS]

  sbarros is that is that what yes or is [TS]

  not in utter unequivocal abomination [TS]

  well as in all things like the the [TS]

  actual points that people respond to [TS]

  wear only tangentially related two [TS]

  points made by the most solid ones were [TS]

  I felt like four people were just saying [TS]

  I like or don't like a particular [TS]

  restaurant that's fair that's fair right [TS]

  and because then you get all right but [TS]

  we were talking about restaurants you [TS]

  could say [TS]

  I loves a boy or I hate subway i love [TS]

  the bar I hate so far right but the ones [TS]

  who came away with the conclusion that [TS]

  there was that the comparisons were made [TS]

  they were actually not made for example [TS]

  comparing subway and tomorrow and what [TS]

  you would rather eat in a show in which [TS]

  I said I you know our mcdonalds even the [TS]

  show which I said I eat subway more than [TS]

  mcdonalds and yet you have people saying [TS]

  that that meant the mcdonalds was better [TS]

  than subway or are somewhat better than [TS]

  mcdonalds anyway lots of people watching [TS]

  on to their own particular competitions [TS]

  but i would say in the realm of subways [TS]

  good subways bad [TS]

  tomorrow's good sbarros bad where they [TS]

  didn't try to compare the two of them it [TS]

  was about 50 50 and it's like the which [TS]

  i just googled the 1960s yell vs hard [TS]

  football game which was listed in the [TS]

  newspaper going to find this all right [TS]

  here is the famous headline which they [TS]

  bury in the last sentence of the [TS]

  paragraph they headline after this [TS]

  football game and 268 was Harvard BTL [TS]

  2929 it was a game that ended in a tie [TS]

  so this is yeah Casey beats John 50-50 [TS]

  split [TS]

  I'll take it I'm good with that you're [TS]

  not going to be complete anyway I would [TS]

  just point out that literally all these [TS]

  issues are a matter of taste in all [TS]

  senses of that word so they're there can [TS]

  be no victory unless one of these food [TS]

  items uh is going to kill you which I [TS]

  don't think that one well that's true [TS]

  these issues are a matter of taste but [TS]

  my tastes better than your taste well [TS]

  that's how it tastes works doesn't it [TS]

  but anyway it's not that there isn't [TS]

  definitive answer [TS]

  you know I mean goodness yet but a but [TS]

  I'd i will take the John be a John loses [TS]

  to kc 5050 or Casey beats John 5050 are [TS]

  you 21 you do one to 1 out of 50 50 [TS]

  producing as percentages but since this [TS]

  is a football scores points so maybe [TS]

  it's one-to-one yeah I I'll take me [TS]

  beating you with the tie that that is [TS]

  good in my book anyway just so you know [TS]

  since you don't read my ad mentions [TS]

  every time i say anything somebody says [TS]

  boy usually agree with what you say but [TS]

  you're really wrong about X that happens [TS]

  all the time that's like fifty percent [TS]

  of my replies are people calling me [TS]

  usually agree with me but they disagree [TS]

  with me about insert whatever and [TS]

  whatever you can think of has been there [TS]

  yeah but to be fair people start from [TS]

  the position of Oh John is right about [TS]

  this [TS]

  whereas without turning this into analog [TS]

  I'm not as convinced people [TS]

  go that way about me well then you're [TS]

  spared all the all the tweets about [TS]

  however and so disappointed in you every [TS]

  time yet another great things usually [TS]

  agree with everything you say Casey but [TS]

  very disappointed in your opinion on the [TS]

  windows XP bumper sound or cars or the [TS]

  restaurant you want to go to or your [TS]

  choice of you know and any other thing [TS]

  you possibly anyway uh yeah you're right [TS]

  those those replies do show a sort of [TS]

  the baseline assumption but another hand [TS]

  if that based on assumption doesn't [TS]

  exist i don't get those tweets there's [TS]

  that but all I'm gonna say is I will [TS]

  take your struggle which is also real [TS]

  over looking for me haha anyway but no [TS]

  other I'm really happy that we kept in [TS]

  that we / Marco kept that conversation [TS]

  in the show because I thought it was [TS]

  really funny in and as much as the [TS]

  bickering back and forth between [TS]

  listeners in between us went on I I [TS]

  still appreciate the fact that everyone [TS]

  seemed to take it for what it was meant [TS]

  to be which was yes we were killing each [TS]

  other but it was all in good fun and [TS]

  then we got some good feedback about the [TS]

  the segment in general which made me [TS]

  really happy so and like I said casing [TS]

  beats John 5050 so i'm good with that [TS]

  massive overwhelming agreement that it [TS]

  was fun listening to us argue and the [TS]

  after-show the one person didn't like an [TS]

  important marker had to say you are [TS]

  literally the only person he was [TS]

  we have we got literally one complaint [TS]

  yeah it was funny [TS]

  I mean that person they believe was like [TS]

  I'm sure I'm not the first person to say [TS]

  this but that was not good [TS]

  yeah and as it turns out the individual [TS]

  you were the first person to say that [TS]

  and the only person to say that I i [TS]

  thought was a lot of fun and even i [TS]

  wanted to kill both of you particularly [TS]

  John because I think Marco kind of ended [TS]

  up in switzerland by the end of the [TS]

  conversation I don't know why you focus [TS]

  all your anger on me because I really [TS]

  listen to that thing and marco was the [TS]

  one constantly poking and prodding you [TS]

  and anyone i was elected to bring it [TS]

  back to like Syria and even stuff and [TS]

  Margo's like throwing these little bombs [TS]

  then walking away with America's fault [TS]

  it was not me go back but I i also was [TS]

  not really a hundred percent either of [TS]

  your sides but I was mostly it was the [TS]

  instigator cabinet i was actually [TS]

  waiting mostly towards Casey side now [TS]

  that's the stuff was very good but that [TS]

  I thought that subway was less terrible [TS]

  than sbarro [TS]

  now I know at least like when we're all [TS]

  at WTC in a few weeks we have to go to [TS]

  that mall food court and they don't have [TS]

  any of those brands that they all have [TS]

  weird stuff [TS]

  yeah what hair is that here's the one we [TS]

  can put in the after-show WBC box lunch [TS]

  vs any fast food sometimes box lunches [TS]

  are bad sometimes they're not sometimes [TS]

  sometimes they are [TS]

  yeah it was actually the problem with [TS]

  the box lunches is that they basically [TS]

  all just tastes like whatever the salad [TS]

  dressing was they used to coat every [TS]

  ingredient that day [TS]

  yeah it's probably fair and ingredients [TS]

  themselves are often made of cardboard [TS]

  yes so you're basically tasting very [TS]

  chewy cardboard that tastes like salad [TS]

  dressing [TS]

  that's not a bad it's not about summary [TS]

  yeah although apparently had a google [TS]

  i/o which were going to talk about quite [TS]

  a bit later they don't serve you lunch [TS]

  it seems like they don't even serve you [TS]

  a roof outside in the sun at 90-degree [TS]

  he's like lizards on hot rocks [TS]

  oh goodness I can't I can't handle this [TS]

  already so Lina friend of Sholay assumes [TS]

  wrote in and said in and out does not [TS]

  use frozen burger patties I remember [TS]

  when or how that came up i said that we [TS]

  we regret the error [TS]

  they're not sorry and I'd only been out [TS]

  like four times i'm not into I've seen [TS]

  cut the fries so I know they're taking [TS]

  potatoes and running through machine [TS]

  cutting the frys but i lumped them in [TS]

  with the the like the taste more like a [TS]

  fast-food chain lets people get frozen [TS]

  patties like McDonald's or Burger King [TS]

  up in and out does not do that [TS]

  excellent yeah and i was very good but I [TS]

  think as we said the last episode I [TS]

  wonder if the reason i like it so much [TS]

  it's just because I can never have it [TS]

  and if it was somewhere if it was like [TS]

  five guys when I could consume it all [TS]

  the time I'd be like well actually like [TS]

  five guys and i'd be yeah yeah I had I [TS]

  had in and out two times in one weekend [TS]

  by the second time I was like all right [TS]

  quality is wearing off [TS]

  yep completely agree that's what I did [TS]

  when I was in California and I felt the [TS]

  exact same way now this is more fun we [TS]

  agree with each other so yes you [TS]

  tomorrow [TS]

  give it time I don't tell me John about [TS]

  tech support ads being banned from being [TS]

  a couple shows back i talked to my mom [TS]

  falling for tech support scam [TS]

  we're by the way that the consensus [TS]

  seems to be that these tech support [TS]

  scams really want is not to steal your [TS]

  information or and put ransomware in [TS]

  your machine of those are all definitely [TS]

  possible and I'm sure have happened but [TS]

  percentage-wise it seems like the thing [TS]

  that most of them are doing is trying to [TS]

  scare you into thinking your computer is [TS]

  something wrong with it and getting you [TS]

  to sign up to a monthly fee for them to [TS]

  essentially do nothing so they make your [TS]

  computer seem like it's haunted and say [TS]

  oh you have a serious problem here you [TS]

  pass five dollars a month will make sure [TS]

  your computer stays clean [TS]

  so it's a slightly different kind of [TS]

  fraudulent scam then the kind of [TS]

  installs a rootkit or malware but you [TS]

  can never know which one of those things [TS]

  are doing and my mother hung up in this [TS]

  person be you know without before [TS]

  finding out exactly what the scam was [TS]

  and so wiping computer is the best thing [TS]

  to do but anyway the story recently was [TS]

  that Byng Microsoft's still existing [TS]

  apparently competitor to google search [TS]

  is now banning all third-party tech [TS]

  support services from being a dad like [TS]

  some of the ads they serve with the [TS]

  search results just because so many of [TS]

  them are fraudulent as an entire [TS]

  category of business that is that cannot [TS]

  advertise on being now again advertising [TS]

  I'm being maybe it's not the biggest [TS]

  thing in the world but google has done [TS]

  similar things and trying to find is [TS]

  trying to get businesses that are [TS]

  fraudulent stop them from buying [TS]

  keywords or ads because as we all know [TS]

  in the search results a lot of times the [TS]

  first two items are actually adds and [TS]

  not legitimate search results and most [TS]

  people i found are not good at [TS]

  distinguishing what's an ad was not even [TS]

  though i clearly labeled or in boxes or [TS]

  whatever and I have no doubt that the [TS]

  thing my mother click on was not [TS]

  actually a search result but an ad [TS]

  because I know she doesn't know the [TS]

  difference [TS]

  thanks just one of the top hits all [TS]

  right so anyway it's sad this entire [TS]

  what could be an entirely legitimate [TS]

  category of businesses like oh you have [TS]

  problems with the computer there's a [TS]

  market need we can help you with your [TS]

  problems instead they're all just camps [TS]

  and so there's been completely pretty [TS]

  crappy [TS]

  yep and a lot of people wrote in with [TS]

  regard to our conversation about [TS]

  podcasting last episode and many many [TS]

  tin foil hats were worn as emails are [TS]

  sent in saying out obviously apple is [TS]

  the source of that New York Times [TS]

  podcasting story that it's so clear I [TS]

  didn't think that was the case but I [TS]

  don't know Marco did you have any [TS]

  thoughts on that [TS]

  I mean it didn't paint apple on a very [TS]

  good light so i don't think they would [TS]

  have been the source of that story also [TS]

  like things that are Apple controlled [TS]

  leaks tend to read a certain way [TS]

  also i can't recall a time the New York [TS]

  Times was publishing those it seems like [TS]

  apples controlled leaks in recent years [TS]

  have gone to the wall street journal and [TS]

  Bloomberg usually so I i would not I I [TS]

  think it's pretty unlikely [TS]

  basically yeah I completely agree and [TS]

  especially since like the idea was that [TS]

  you know like i was saying the past show [TS]

  all these things that they're suggesting [TS]

  would just give Apple tremendous amount [TS]

  of power and that's bad for cod [TS]

  podcasters and that was about to leading [TS]

  people to say oh well it because Apple [TS]

  tremendous power and speed for [TS]

  podcasters don't stop thinking about it [TS]

  is though isn't it weird that podcasters [TS]

  would say that I think about it all this [TS]

  is exactly what Apple would want but if [TS]

  Apple wanted to grab power in the [TS]

  podcast market a could have done that [TS]

  years ago and be it doesn't need to leak [TS]

  anything to do it would just have to do [TS]

  it so I don't see the purpose of that [TS]

  leak even if that even the dastardly [TS]

  Apple did want on podcasting which they [TS]

  totally have seemed like they don't they [TS]

  don't need the New York Times to do that [TS]

  yes it seems like you know that what we [TS]

  already knew which is that Apple is a [TS]

  very very big player in podcasting but [TS]

  that it doesn't it's not really like top [TS]

  of their radar it's not like a huge [TS]

  priority for them they have much bigger [TS]

  things to deal with so and i don't i [TS]

  don't see that changing you know like [TS]

  seeing what Apple has to deal with their [TS]

  other product lines various market [TS]

  pressures you know various internal and [TS]

  external needs a podcasting is just not [TS]

  very high rating on that list and I [TS]

  don't see that changing for the [TS]

  foreseeable future it might be way down [TS]

  the road but i really wouldn't assume [TS]

  that it's going to suddenly become a big [TS]

  thing for them we are sponsored tonight [TS]

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  actually see who's ringing your doorbell [TS]

  and you can respond from your phone [TS]

  whether your home or not [TS]

  so you can pretend like you're home to [TS]

  maybe ward off burglars you can tell a [TS]

  package delivery person hey leave it on [TS]

  the doorstep I'm in the shower even if [TS]

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  and you know you can have package left [TS]

  all sorts of good reasons why you want a [TS]

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  there's also incredibly advanced motion [TS]

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  doesn't ring your doorbell ringing can [TS]

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  this can actually help you both deter [TS]

  and prevent home break-ins and they have [TS]

  actually run studies they've actually [TS]

  been able to been able to decrease the [TS]

  rate of home break-ins in neighborhood [TS]

  have a bunch of ring video doorbell is [TS]

  installed and home break-ins usually [TS]

  happen during the day that some people [TS]

  aren't home so this could really help [TS]

  out a lot i'm installing ring is very [TS]

  easy it takes only minutes you can [TS]

  either work with your current wiring or [TS]

  they have a built-in rechargeable [TS]

  battery model so John you have one of [TS]

  these right i installed mine i got the [TS]

  they sent me one of the just the cameras [TS]

  that's not the doorbell thing that's [TS]

  interesting what is that it's just [TS]

  wrapped up like a mounting bracket you [TS]

  gotta stick anywhere and came up a name [TS]

  down and you know so you don't have to [TS]

  put it over your doorbell be and it [TS]

  doesn't have a button on it is basically [TS]

  just a camera and I put it [TS]

  guess what raising my driveway because [TS]

  that's what i want to do with these [TS]

  things and maybe call anybody sneaking [TS]

  around your car yet [TS]

  no just us every time we come home and [TS]

  the kids go out and and you know stuff [TS]

  like that so I'm so I'm observing it [TS]

  when I mean it works fine i'm amazed [TS]

  that one of the batteries last thing I [TS]

  guess like it's basically offer asleep [TS]

  the entire time and then you trip the IR [TS]

  sensor it turns on i think it's not like [TS]

  ninety percent battery has been out [TS]

  there for like five days and it sends [TS]

  alerts to my iOS devices when this [TS]

  motion and I can look at it and you know [TS]

  i can see my daughter scraping her [TS]

  bicycle again side of my car it's great [TS]

  i can't feel bad though for my kids [TS]

  because I think about it when you were a [TS]

  kid like you get away with a lot of [TS]

  stuff of your parents didn't see it now [TS]

  had literally have a video camera [TS]

  catching them you know scraping the bike [TS]

  and the side of my car feel kind of bad [TS]

  and they can't pin that look I've got [TS]

  video let's come look at it together the [TS]

  other bikes not supposed to touch the [TS]

  car bad [TS]

  yes I feel bad but yeah that's that's [TS]

  there that's the non front door product [TS]

  because again have after my ipad ipod [TS]

  being stolen out of my car [TS]

  what I really wanted was to see what the [TS]

  deal is and so far no one has come to [TS]

  visit my car as far as I've been able to [TS]

  determine also my ipod is not been [TS]

  stolen from my car yet [TS]

  thumbs up so far yeah maybe just the [TS]

  presence of the camera will the terrible [TS]

  kinda like this fake [TS]

  security signs that you put on your lawn [TS]

  or on your windows we don't actually [TS]

  have a security system but this is a [TS]

  real camera so it is it is mostly going [TS]

  my family now it's fun i thought a lot [TS]

  about what you were saying about getting [TS]

  away with things because especially when [TS]

  it came to like driving i did terrible [TS]

  things in my 1994 well actually was [TS]

  dad's 1994 saturn sl2 that really was [TS]

  not designed to do the terrible things I [TS]

  did it [TS]

  hold that thought of expenses automatic [TS]

  yeah fair enough but suffice to say they [TS]

  find my friends or whatever was the [TS]

  thing or glimpse was the thing back when [TS]

  i was 16 i would have a very different [TS]

  childhood than I did so our listeners [TS]

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  with the ring video doorbell you're [TS]

  always home thanks a lot to ring for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah alright so this was discussed a bit [TS]

  on the latest under the radar which [TS]

  almost accidentally called under the [TS]

  weather but appstore approval times if [TS]

  you're always making fun of me for being [TS]

  sick I haven't actually meant to ask you [TS]

  if you were sick right now are you sick [TS]

  right now I think it's on its way out [TS]

  ok so on episode 27 of you're under the [TS]

  weather program you discussed fast app [TS]

  review and it's worth at least quickly [TS]

  touching upon here [TS]

  appstore review times which typically [TS]

  hovered about a week are now really [TS]

  really fast so cable sasser tweeted [TS]

  earlier tonight [TS]

  Logan sent a non panic apt to the mac [TS]

  app store at ten-thirty it was in review [TS]

  i'm assuming that I am it was interview [TS]

  at three rejected for a crash at [TS]

  five-thirty they fixed it submitted at [TS]

  six-thirty approved at eight o'clock so [TS]

  in the span of what is that 10 hours [TS]

  they made two submissions and gather [TS]

  their app approved that's impressive [TS]

  and in fact i can i can also confirm [TS]

  that this morning I submit an overcast [TS]

  update and it was approved and in the [TS]

  store nine hours later I didn't listen [TS]

  to the [TS]

  helping under the weather perspective [TS]

  podcast about that but right when I [TS]

  think about a lot of people are asking [TS]

  like OS does this have to do with phil [TS]

  schiller maybe it does so on and so [TS]

  forth like how is this possible and [TS]

  they're there are so many ways that [TS]

  could be possible but the thing that [TS]

  ones that spring to mind me are you can [TS]

  use heuristics to assess the risk of [TS]

  each application submission and what you [TS]

  can mix into those heuristics are how [TS]

  many absences developer put in have we [TS]

  had any problems before is this a [TS]

  entirely new a person update to an [TS]

  existing one [TS]

  I mean they can go down to the point [TS]

  where they're doing like binary dips or [TS]

  something but the whole mess of your [TS]

  astex you can do and of course that is [TS]

  hiring more people but but this dramatic [TS]

  decrease from like days two hours [TS]

  I don't think you can do that by even [TS]

  like hiring ten times as many people are [TS]

  they must they must be having better [TS]

  rules about like how much do we have to [TS]

  scrutinize this or how much can we [TS]

  automated no increased automation is [TS]

  another thing but again it seems like it [TS]

  would have to you know come out of [TS]

  nowhere when when a developer can who's [TS]

  never had any promises but we always [TS]

  entirely developer who never had any [TS]

  problems with conscientious who is [TS]

  submitting an app it looks fairly [TS]

  straightforward to get them through and [TS]

  like it like this you know one day [TS]

  turnaround time where you you passed it [TS]

  gets rejected you fix it you pass it [TS]

  goes back out again this is not enough [TS]

  time in there to do like a you know it [TS]

  to give it a huge amount of scrutiny and [TS]

  go through every single screen and you [TS]

  know do all stuffy even automated [TS]

  testing tools could take you know you [TS]

  could run through automated testing for [TS]

  a certain amount of time and maybe that [TS]

  wouldn't even fit in this is almost like [TS]

  they're saying this one is probably fine [TS]

  right guys run the fast automated tests [TS]

  give it a once-over two seconds and let [TS]

  it sail through which is what developers [TS]

  have been asking like and again this was [TS]

  in a panic a panic were saying like look [TS]

  seriously Apple you know are we burying [TS]

  malware and our applications like you're [TS]

  never going to catch if we do anyway so [TS]

  you might as well just accept the [TS]

  reality that the only thing you can [TS]

  really do is assume good intent and [TS]

  punished after the fact [TS]

  right because if you say oh we don't [TS]

  like that that's not a secure way to do [TS]

  we want to do on a start that stuff and [TS]

  getting the store in the first place [TS]

  hey that's not pass [TS]

  people & B it just punishes everybody [TS]

  for the possibility they might suddenly [TS]

  turn one day and panic becomes infected [TS]

  by malware you even there no fault of [TS]

  their own like that happens almost smell [TS]

  right to the map app there's only so [TS]

  much that you can detect in review so it [TS]

  you know the the calculus may be right [TS]

  you know develop these heuristics so [TS]

  that most normal developers get there we [TS]

  do less we do let's review basically [TS]

  foremost normal developers and we'll [TS]

  catch the matter of fact because history [TS]

  has proven that you catch tons of stuff [TS]

  after the fact anyway tons of things get [TS]

  through even obvious things that [TS]

  should've been caught so why pretend [TS]

  that your entire system is predicated on [TS]

  the idea that we must catch bad things [TS]

  before they get through the store at all [TS]

  costs and then take a day or a week or [TS]

  wherever to do it so this is definitely [TS]

  awesome and I have to think that it has [TS]

  been that it's happening because they're [TS]

  just getting there working smarter not [TS]

  harder as they say as the bosses say [TS]

  whatever it is it's dramatic and we [TS]

  talked about a lot on under-the-radar [TS]

  last week that the gist of it basically [TS]

  means further for those of you who don't [TS]

  know after you used to take roughly a [TS]

  week and throughout the entire history [TS]

  of the app store and back 2008 and there [TS]

  have been a couple ups and downs here [TS]

  and there but for the most part it's [TS]

  been pretty consistent taking about a [TS]

  week ago when you have when you want a [TS]

  preview goes from taking a week to a day [TS]

  or less it makes a lot of app review [TS]

  problems less severe and it makes it [TS]

  basically lets you iterate faster on [TS]

  your software and so yes it does create [TS]

  the potential to kind of play fast and [TS]

  loose and ship more bugs but it also [TS]

  gives you the ability to fix bugs faster [TS]

  and so I have to imagine is going to [TS]

  lead overall to better quality software [TS]

  and it has certainly led to better [TS]

  quality better developer morale and [TS]

  better developer feelings towards the [TS]

  platform and as the economics have [TS]

  gotten more challenging over the years i [TS]

  think that's something that Apple is his [TS]

  right to be apparently focusing on [TS]

  because you know that the app stores its [TS]

  it's pretty easy to become bitter after [TS]

  a while the app store in trying to sell [TS]

  something trying trying to make some [TS]

  money cuz its it just gets harder and [TS]

  harder every year as there's increasing [TS]

  competition for everywhere [TS]

  and so to have signs the Apple is trying [TS]

  to make our lives better as developers [TS]

  is is very promising and it this kind of [TS]

  thing is is a huge improvement to be an [TS]

  iOS developer it's an improvement that I [TS]

  don't think any of us were expecting to [TS]

  ever get and all of a sudden it just [TS]

  kinda here it's gonna be on the sly WWDC [TS]

  i would imagine but yeah like it so [TS]

  there are still remaining problems of [TS]

  the main one I can think of is you have [TS]

  been developing an app for a while [TS]

  releasing updates to our regular [TS]

  schedule and then along the way if [TS]

  you're if you're lucky just a routine [TS]

  update but if you're unlucky a bug fix [TS]

  update gets hung up as they say [TS]

  something fundamental about your app is [TS]

  against the rules [TS]

  you're like I've been releasing this app [TS]

  for a year I have this is like the 17th [TS]

  update and all of a sudden the major [TS]

  feature of my application is a violation [TS]

  of the guidelines and that's preventing [TS]

  me from getting this bug fix update or [TS]

  this routine update out the door and [TS]

  faster doesn't help that because no [TS]

  matter how fast you iterate on that you [TS]

  still the second problem is can i [TS]

  connect to a human being who understands [TS]

  the words of my mouth is making right [TS]

  now like I think nothing fundamental has [TS]

  changed about my app this app has [TS]

  existed for a long time are you telling [TS]

  me that the end of this app is no longer [TS]

  welcome in the store tell me now I will [TS]

  cease development or are you telling me [TS]

  you don't understand something basic [TS]

  about my happen I need to explain it to [TS]

  you and those type of situations with [TS]

  like the wall of silence and just trying [TS]

  to send it back again and again and [TS]

  getting computerized responses fast [TS]

  iteration time doesn't help with that [TS]

  kind of frustration because then you're [TS]

  like blocked on something like I don't [TS]

  understand i'm trying to fix a crashing [TS]

  bug and you're telling me my application [TS]

  that's been on the store for years now [TS]

  like illegal for some you know so that [TS]

  frustration can still exists with fast [TS]

  iteration time boy like Marcus said [TS]

  having the time get faster whole message [TS]

  of complaints and the things that people [TS]

  like national chief about the app store [TS]

  just go away when the timescale shrink [TS]

  to a single day then it's like a mild [TS]

  annoyance vs like I have to plan my [TS]

  entire business about around allowing [TS]

  for a week to a month of review time [TS]

  which is just just destroys your you [TS]

  know your ability like just go to market [TS]

  to compete that 22 to serve your [TS]

  customers like it was a problem with the [TS]

  one point and you gotta wait a week for [TS]

  the 1.01 why this if i don't really help [TS]

  the stick will be promising is if Apple [TS]

  publicly knowledge is this [TS]

  and in any way at all that with every [TS]

  city man that you think they're not [TS]

  gonna brag about this how can they not [TS]

  is gonna be graph right but if they if [TS]

  they don't mention it at all it could [TS]

  plausibly be like a flu is an accident [TS]

  someone was just hitting the approve [TS]

  button little drinking bird from the [TS]

  simpsons do is just that reference movie [TS]

  do I told us from the simpsons though [TS]

  yeah but again I giving you the [TS]

  reference is that from the simpsons well [TS]

  you had I mean we know what drinking [TS]

  bird is separately now I know so you can [TS]

  add sound it just sounds weird to me but [TS]

  you're like a showbusiness mom an [TS]

  impossible to please no wire hangers [TS]

  that that when I didn't get no that's [TS]

  not a showbusiness mom know is it is [TS]

  that that was a mommy dearest but I [TS]

  don't think it was a showbiz angle on [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah went right over my head and [TS]

  everything is back to normal [TS]

  our next sponsor this week is automatic [TS]

  now chances are your car has not fully [TS]

  kept up with technology this is [TS]

  automatic comes in automatic is a small [TS]

  adapter that turns any car into a [TS]

  connected smart car just plug in the [TS]

  automatic into the same port your [TS]

  mechanic used to diagnose engine [TS]

  problems usually it's in the footwell [TS]

  area and it opens up a world of [TS]

  possibilities now automatically to keep [TS]

  tracking a few mileage vehicle Health [TS]

  lets you expense business trips with one [TS]

  tap and link your car the connected [TS]

  devices the power your life so what does [TS]

  that check engine light actually mean [TS]

  automatic can tell you through your [TS]

  phone before you even have to go to the [TS]

  shop [TS]

  you can also integrate with your nest [TS]

  thermostat to know when your home and [TS]

  can provide the answer one of life's [TS]

  most common questions dude where's my [TS]

  car [TS]

  automatic works on nearly every car made [TS]

  after 1996 and it takes only minutes to [TS]

  install and connect to your iPhone or [TS]

  Android device over Bluetooth this gives [TS]

  you real-time performance data all the [TS]

  Diagnostics i mentioned earlier it can [TS]

  even use intelligent coaching to [TS]

  maximize fuel economy and reduce wear [TS]

  and tear so for example you can say if I [TS]

  am getting fuel economy below this [TS]

  target that I want to hit that I want to [TS]

  hit beep at me or tell me so I could [TS]

  like you know adjust the habit of doing [TS]

  if I just gave my my teenage son Casey [TS]

  the car for the night [TS]

  and in case he decides to drive super [TS]

  fast I can have a report of that 1994 [TS]

  saturn sl2 does never go a day never [TS]

  goes fast it just goes quicker than the [TS]

  roads intended that's all [TS]

  alright i also have a webapp dashboard [TS]

  provides greater information lets you [TS]

  import and export data gives you [TS]

  planning regulations here check check [TS]

  engine light they also have this [TS]

  incredible app platform now when you [TS]

  have smarts and you have connectivity [TS]

  you can have integration so i mentioned [TS]

  earlier the nest integrations also [TS]

  integration with your mechanic [TS]

  freshbooks and more you can file [TS]

  business expenses of popular apps like [TS]

  current Expensify and it works with [TS]

  ifttt for even more possibilities [TS]

  integrate your car into your digital [TS]

  life and support apple watch it supports [TS]

  pebble watches and all this is available [TS]

  for no monthly fees and no subscriptions [TS]

  and they never sell your data that's not [TS]

  their business their business is selling [TS]

  you the automatic device the automatic [TS]

  device is normally 9,500 bucks but use [TS]

  our special offer code ATP 03 15 you'll [TS]

  save twenty percent that makes it just [TS]

  80 bucks with code ATP 03 15 so go to [TS]

  all right calm / ATP these offer code [TS]

  8003 15 to save twenty percent off the [TS]

  regular price gets of q4 80 bucks that's [TS]

  automatic calm / ATP thanks a lot for [TS]

  supporting the show [TS]

  alright so Google i/o keynote was today [TS]

  and I actually watched it which is the [TS]

  first time i think i've ever watched [TS]

  google i/o keynote but now that I'm in [TS]

  this whole brand-new world where I work [TS]

  alongside Android developers and they [TS]

  were really into it and they did what I [TS]

  usually do for Apple keynotes and we all [TS]

  piled in a conference room where they [TS]

  put it on the big screen and we watched [TS]

  it together and it was pretty good [TS]

  all-in-all and we'll go through each [TS]

  thing you know in a moment but i was [TS]

  impressed i heard rumblings and in [TS]

  descriptions of past google i/o is that [TS]

  they were meandering and long and often [TS]

  boring much like the talent of the last [TS]

  wdc keynote and so Pam and a total [TS]

  disaster kind of like the end of the [TS]

  last WBC keynote [TS]

  and also i'm curious i was talking about [TS]

  this recently with tiff which do you [TS]

  think was the worst moment in recent [TS]

  apple keynote memory was it the app [TS]

  music introduction or the u2 album [TS]

  finger-touch thing o.o finger-touch was [TS]

  nothing compared to the end of last [TS]

  year's wcu kidding finger-touch was a [TS]

  brief moment kind of silly excusable by [TS]

  celebrity the other was just in terminal [TS]

  watching neq vamp and then having to [TS]

  have Drake be up there and just ramble [TS]

  and it was it was bad but to keep in [TS]

  mind though I think contributing to the [TS]

  side of the argument though is like the [TS]

  finger-touch was part of a very very [TS]

  awkward moment [TS]

  yeah that when also led into this giant [TS]

  thing nobody wanted which is everybody [TS]

  getting this album pushed into the eye [TS]

  and it was fine [TS]

  you like you too yeah you're matter and [TS]

  even if they don't it was fire was that [TS]

  it was a fumble who cares they gave you [TS]

  free stuff and took up space in your [TS]

  phone and they gave you a way to opt out [TS]

  of it and it was silly but like you're [TS]

  talking about the keynote itself finger [TS]

  touches nothing I don't know man i'm [TS]

  kinda with mark on this I think it was [TS]

  an approximately equivalent amount of [TS]

  awkward it's just that the density in [TS]

  the finger-touch was considered if mary [TS]

  has made you watch one of those things [TS]

  over again and you have to watch the [TS]

  finger-touch you have to watch the [TS]

  entire neq and Drake segment which to [TS]

  choose what I have to watch the YouTube [TS]

  performance before the finger-touch I [TS]

  think it's a community [TS]

  I mean it don't know if you're including [TS]

  musical performance has been a long line [TS]

  of musical performance that people don't [TS]

  care but I was trying that I put all [TS]

  these notes in here by google I was [TS]

  trying not to talk about the the [TS]

  showmanship or compared to apple because [TS]

  the outdoor thing that the set [TS]

  decoration on that stage was not good [TS]

  hold on can we can we paint a word [TS]

  picture please I don't want to paint the [TS]

  word picture i gotta bring up to i [TS]

  thought i had the video i hear something [TS]

  I don't know what they're decorating [TS]

  theme was it like needed to do material [TS]

  chaos was that the beam SE the material [TS]

  design colors kind of i can see that [TS]

  theme and you kind of saw echoed in [TS]

  their slides but the set design for the [TS]

  stage just was not aesthetically [TS]

  pleasing and didn't enhance they have [TS]

  these did enhance their presentation of [TS]

  the bright colored lights underneath the [TS]

  screen like [TS]

  I just want to focus on your content the [TS]

  content i thought was pretty good and I [TS]

  really liked a lot of the things they [TS]

  announced but the set duration was great [TS]

  but anyway my point is I don't want to [TS]

  talk about a set decoration or how [TS]

  polished presenters were or whether or [TS]

  not Drake wear vintage apple jacket [TS]

  while he said nothing of interest or a [TS]

  very cute dance you have to google he [TS]

  did write a damn he did anyway I want to [TS]

  talk about the products and other [TS]

  thought there was a lot of cool stuff [TS]

  yeah i mean there is there is siri there [TS]

  is the echo I'm not even tries time [TS]

  trying to say they're just doing things [TS]

  other people are doing because that is a [TS]

  ridiculous argument that is the only [TS]

  thing I give you that on his foot screen [TS]

  because I was really expecting to have [TS]

  something more than exactly what Apple a [TS]

  split-screen picture-in-picture but [TS]

  anyway we're getting an overall but yeah [TS]

  the there's that's not an exact Apple [TS]

  rip I actually I give them in ok on that [TS]

  but we will go in the order of the show [TS]

  notes and it begins with google home [TS]

  which is the Amazon echo / alexa product [TS]

  but google see this actually like I'm [TS]

  this might be really good [TS]

  it's obviously a big risk you know [TS]

  because first of all it's google doing [TS]

  its own hardware and their record for [TS]

  that is about as good as Amazon's record [TS]

  is for the friends into its own hardware [TS]

  so like they have had some things that [TS]

  have worked some of the nexus have been [TS]

  decent but a lot of their stuff has been [TS]

  flops and so it's it it's a huge wild [TS]

  card but separate the flop from as if [TS]

  they don't sell a lot of them from paw [TS]

  is the hardware actually good without a [TS]

  google has probably done multiples of [TS]

  both like I think that ball thing I [TS]

  don't know whatever shipped or whatever [TS]

  that was like not a good idea and one of [TS]

  the things they make don't sell a lot [TS]

  but it's not like they're bad i mean i [TS]

  don't think they sell a lot of not even [TS]

  like the Chromebook pixel how many grow [TS]

  pixels this so i don't know but the [TS]

  hardware wasn't terrible right and no [TS]

  not at all i thought the hardware look [TS]

  great and the same thing when you know [TS]

  the tablets and all the Nexus phones [TS]

  especially like the Nexus phones didn't [TS]

  sell that many you know I think people [TS]

  thought they were going to sell more [TS]

  than they did and then the other vendors [TS]

  took over but the hardware they actually [TS]

  make I don't think it's bad hardware so [TS]

  I have some vague hope that this little [TS]

  the squat little weeble that's their [TS]

  Amazon echo competitive everything is a [TS]

  weeble to you it's shaped like a weeble [TS]

  wobble they don't fall down right [TS]

  how many times have you made that joke [TS]

  on our shows but they don't know about [TS]

  the weebles please don't make me tell [TS]

  you again about the weebles but now this [TS]

  is this is literally we will shape right [TS]

  it's fat on the bottom and it's like [TS]

  anyway like I i have some faith that the [TS]

  hardware will be ok i don't think that's [TS]

  been the problem with Google's hardware [TS]

  products of the hardware as bad I feel [TS]

  like they've just you know falling down [TS]

  other I like the google TV stuff and [TS]

  maybe you know that really goes remote [TS]

  was there was it made badly [TS]

  no it was just a bad idea so if it's a [TS]

  good idea and I think they can make it [TS]

  and you know reasonably well I i think i [TS]

  have i've seen no reason why this device [TS]

  shouldn't sell just as well as the [TS]

  Amazon echo message the amazonica was [TS]

  already tired of that entire market [TS]

  which is possible but other than that [TS]

  the people about the echo why would they [TS]

  buy this to its like the same thing [TS]

  yeah i mean really like this kind of [TS]

  thing is the kind of thing that google [TS]

  should be really good at and again this [TS]

  isn't to say that they definitely will [TS]

  but i think the they clearly are likely [TS]

  to succeed here because it combines the [TS]

  types of things are really good at with [TS]

  the kind of market they can get in [TS]

  succeeded which is like so far mostly [TS]

  like Aggie Aggie market very tech-savvy [TS]

  market of people who have like smart [TS]

  home stuff [TS]

  the main problem we're gonna have is [TS]

  there is the lack of retail presence [TS]

  because I can you know we've seen like [TS]

  Amazon is so powerful [TS]

  amazon is the place where most people [TS]

  would go to buy this kind of thing so [TS]

  and i'm sure Amazon not gonna be too [TS]

  happy to carry it or if they do carry [TS]

  it's really not going to ever promote it [TS]

  but I'm guessing they don't carry it all [TS]

  so this is going to be interesting had [TS]

  to see how Google can try to market this [TS]

  and and and sell the crap out of this [TS]

  because from a technical perspective [TS]

  google should be better than amazon at [TS]

  this stuff [TS]

  I don't know that they will be but they [TS]

  should be yeah i Ike's expect them to be [TS]

  yet because I mean the only thing I feel [TS]

  like they might not [TS]

  better at is maybe this is the first try [TS]

  at putting something out that has 10 [TS]

  microphones and all sorts of noise [TS]

  cancelling stuff so maybe amazon it was [TS]

  amazon's first try and they gotta try [TS]

  know I know but they it's been out for [TS]

  awhile and the quality is really good so [TS]

  I think they basically that Amazon hit [TS]

  out of the park in that particular [TS]

  feature right so I don't think that's a [TS]

  given for your first try the Amazon did [TS]

  a really good job with does this thing [TS]

  understand me from across the room [TS]

  google says they do a good job with that [TS]

  but they like amazon had an exemplary [TS]

  first try right and i have the second [TS]

  and third try with the dot and although [TS]

  there whatever the the derivative [TS]

  products but i think they did a really [TS]

  good job but other than that everything [TS]

  else about this google I think should be [TS]

  better and will be better like things [TS]

  that you can say to it natural language [TS]

  processing back-end querying the only [TS]

  thing a man can do better i was buying [TS]

  stuff right because ma'am but every [TS]

  other part of it [TS]

  google damn well better be better than [TS]

  amazon at because you know amazon he [TS]

  doesn't have any of the the strength [TS]

  behind it to do all the language [TS]

  processing and search queries in the [TS]

  deep hooks into all that type of stuff [TS]

  and the thing that really blew me away [TS]

  about this demo was la thinking about [TS]

  why the hell does Apple not have one of [TS]

  these things that I guess maybe it's [TS]

  beneath their concern but be when they [TS]

  did the thing like the kids talking to [TS]

  it and doing the conversations that show [TS]

  me on the TV like that is an apple move [TS]

  yeah i do that yet because we make a TV [TS]

  device and of course our little weeble [TS]

  knows about the TV the chromecast catch [TS]

  the TV show me on the TV like that is [TS]

  that the type of thing we used to have [TS]

  to be the apple ecosystem for which is [TS]

  all i have tons of Apple crap around the [TS]

  house and they all know about each other [TS]

  and they all just work together and it's [TS]

  like airplane to your appletv the first [TS]

  time that works like it was amazing [TS]

  because I happy to apple devices really [TS]

  easy to put a video up on my TV [TS]

  well see all the time that worked yeah I [TS]

  know much about hitting and that was the [TS]

  first time you know it was impressive [TS]

  the first time and yet this is google [TS]

  saying hey we actually have stuff around [TS]

  here they and they put a little nest [TS]

  icon on there to say connecting the [TS]

  thermostat and and third-party to [TS]

  integrate with your third party lights [TS]

  and stuff like that they're not being [TS]

  like Apple would only work would only [TS]

  work with your Apple lights or whatever [TS]

  they're all big on third-party [TS]

  integrations they already announced an [TS]

  API which we still don't have four [TS]

  series over for developers [TS]

  unless unless Google homeless this is [TS]

  the nest hub that we read about [TS]

  and all those tell articles about next [TS]

  about honest was going down in flames [TS]

  and everything was breaking I really [TS]

  hope this is not the long-delayed hub [TS]

  from the nest people because the [TS]

  dysfunctional organization is not gonna [TS]

  make a good product but assuming this is [TS]

  made by functional organization I i [TS]

  think this will be an impressive Brock [TS]

  and I think I might actually get 1 i've [TS]

  been holding off on the echo just [TS]

  because it's the first generation [TS]

  product or whatever but if this gets [TS]

  really good reviews i think the reason i [TS]

  will buy it because I basically I have [TS]

  more faith in google that amazon in [TS]

  terms of supporting and evolving this [TS]

  product and being good at the more [TS]

  interesting sophisticated parts of it he [TS]

  told that the downside though I mean [TS]

  that the counter-argument to that first [TS]

  of all there is this the big privacy ? [TS]

  we should address because a lot of [TS]

  people are like you know I was one of [TS]

  the people I I freaked out when Amazon [TS]

  be released i realize the echo and I was [TS]

  like you're you know you're not Amazon [TS]

  put a speaker and a microphone in your [TS]

  house is listening to everything you say [TS]

  all the time and similarly we know when [TS]

  google bought nest everyone's like [TS]

  you're gonna have you want Google to own [TS]

  this thermostat that can look in your [TS]

  house and stuff and and there's a lot of [TS]

  people my past self included who are [TS]

  uncomfortable with that and and they're [TS]

  just not gonna want that product in [TS]

  their house and that's fine that's you [TS]

  know that's your decision if it you know [TS]

  for me what tip the scale is what every [TS]

  Google fan usually says when asked about [TS]

  privacy things which is basically what [TS]

  this girl for me when with letting the [TS]

  Amazon echo in my house was I saw how [TS]

  good it was [TS]

  I other people's houses like I saw how [TS]

  good it was and I decided you know what [TS]

  it's worth the trade-off [TS]

  I'll take the risk I'll put this thing [TS]

  in my kitchen because it is so good as [TS]

  worth the trade-off and this is the same [TS]

  thing that most google people say when [TS]

  you know when they say they don't wait [TS]

  if people like me ask them like you know [TS]

  why do you want Google to have access to [TS]

  all your data and to be analyzing [TS]

  everything you do and and selling ads [TS]

  against it and everything and the answer [TS]

  I get most commonly is well worth it to [TS]

  me because it's convenient in these [TS]

  features of things that i want to have [TS]

  made the decision and you know I can't [TS]

  really argue with that if you know if [TS]

  you decide it's worth it to you then [TS]

  it's worth it to you [TS]

  I haven't just clarifying where iphone [TS]

  that I don't see it as a trade office in [TS]

  like okay well there are detriments but [TS]

  there are benefits i mean the trade-off [TS]

  is there but like I would put it more [TS]

  succinctly for [TS]

  myself is that basically I trust Google [TS]

  like I don't trust them with everything [TS]

  I don't trust them like implicitly I [TS]

  don't give the ball my trust but in the [TS]

  grand scheme of things I trust apple and [TS]

  I trust Google to basically be companies [TS]

  that are trying to do the right thing [TS]

  and are not like you just inherently [TS]

  evil like I don't know insert the name [TS]

  your favorite company although it's [TS]

  weird that I was just about to say [TS]

  oracle but you don't really get back [TS]

  into that and anyway I mean I would [TS]

  trust Google before I trust facebook [TS]

  oh yeah he's a great example right or [TS]

  even antitrust amazon you know for the [TS]

  most part and again don't trust them [TS]

  entirely [TS]

  I you have to be vigilant and so on and [TS]

  so forth don't say oh I just trust them [TS]

  to listen to everything my house that [TS]

  never gonna do anything you will never [TS]

  gonna sell me to advertise like I trust [TS]

  them in that I kind of I know what [TS]

  they're gonna do I know what they're [TS]

  about but in general [TS]

  still the company seems to me to be [TS]

  mostly trying to do the right thing as [TS]

  long as you understand their business [TS]

  and how much advertising is a part of it [TS]

  and what is probably gonna happen to all [TS]

  your data and the fact that the u.s. [TS]

  government is probably going to have [TS]

  hooks into all this stuff and they're [TS]

  not going to tell you about like as long [TS]

  as you go on with a clear head [TS]

  the bottom line is that by I I trusted [TS]

  this is not i'm not like backdooring my [TS]

  entire house forever and ever and I you [TS]

  know and I wouldn't install a device [TS]

  from a company that I trusted less or [TS]

  company that was less competent or more [TS]

  likely to go out of business or more [TS]

  likely to get to do something in [TS]

  desperation for money [TS]

  you know what I mean like there's so [TS]

  many things it for me in favor of google [TS]

  so yes it is a trade-off but mostly what [TS]

  it comes down to is that you know I [TS]

  trust Google enough to put something [TS]

  like this in my house you know I I spoke [TS]

  about i think that i am a brand new [TS]

  google photos user and the more i use [TS]

  this app that both web app in the native [TS]

  apps the more i like it in the morn [TS]

  amazes me and and quickly during the [TS]

  keynote they said oh and you know google [TS]

  photos does some incredible things than [TS]

  I think it's what 200 million active [TS]

  users on it or something like that [TS]

  whatever the number is but you can even [TS]

  search for something like hugs and of [TS]

  course in the room I mean it was half [TS]

  Android developers are mostly Android [TS]

  developers and a couple of theirs and so [TS]

  I immediately hopped on google photos [TS]

  and tighten hugs and sure enough there [TS]

  are a bunch of people hugging each other [TS]

  like usually Aaron me and Declan that [TS]

  show up immediately like this stuff [TS]

  google photos does is amazing and [TS]

  seeing how good it is makes me wonder [TS]

  then [TS]

  well if they're this good with photos i [TS]

  wonder how could they would be with this [TS]

  google home thing so I agree with you [TS]

  John that this it the the google photos [TS]

  as kind of been my gateway drug back [TS]

  into google like I still use gmail for [TS]

  both work and personal mail but that's [TS]

  just kind of a thing in the background I [TS]

  don't ever use the web app it's all just [TS]

  basically I'm apt to me but man google [TS]

  photos has really changed my tune as to [TS]

  how I think about Google these days and [TS]

  i'm giving some serious positive side I [TS]

  to this google home thing because it's [TS]

  aesthetically pleasing be that being a [TS]

  weeble or not it still looks good and [TS]

  I'm tentatively interested in what the [TS]

  springs in a way that I haven't really [TS]

  been in the echo and not to bring this [TS]

  back tough to food again but they were [TS]

  here we go one that said show was [TS]

  talking to maybe this was the ethics is [TS]

  this one [TS]

  talk about a I think getting the aloe [TS]

  thing later but it's all tied up in the [TS]

  same sort of natural language processing [TS]

  type where they're asking questions of [TS]

  these products and having it do things [TS]

  for you and they always want to demo [TS]

  those because they always want to show [TS]

  that the video of like an entire family [TS]

  talking to the to the google home device [TS]

  which is a little bit overblown because [TS]

  I can you know the impression you get is [TS]

  this entire family spends its entire day [TS]

  living in the same house but all all [TS]

  their their words are addressed towards [TS]

  the inanimate object instead of the [TS]

  other people which I you know you kind [TS]

  of get that because you have to you have [TS]

  to fit in lots of examples of uses in a [TS]

  single you know too many commercial and [TS]

  anyway that aside a lot of what the [TS]

  things are doing is trying to sell the [TS]

  fantasy that it's like a personal [TS]

  assistant where flight is delayed and [TS]

  you want to move your dinner [TS]

  reservations and you just wanted to [TS]

  handle things for you and i start i [TS]

  think those make for good good demos but [TS]

  also bad demos because think they raise [TS]

  expectations on reasonable levels [TS]

  because every time they do something [TS]

  like that [TS]

  I see sort of like scrolling down the [TS]

  side of my virtual screen like all the [TS]

  cascading number of assumptions that are [TS]

  in there that your restaurant has an [TS]

  open table reservation that it [TS]

  understands that you know that the [TS]

  restaurant thing you're talking about [TS]

  that is that that it knows about your [TS]

  flight that you know like that you [TS]

  didn't use a different email [TS]

  just for this that it wasn't sent to a [TS]

  different person that like that just so [TS]

  many things have to go right for that to [TS]

  work and they make it seem like you [TS]

  don't have to worry about a care about [TS]

  those but you do because if you're [TS]

  flying on an airline that doesn't have [TS]

  integration in the same way or you want [TS]

  to go to restaurant that doesn't support [TS]

  opentable or you something was done on a [TS]

  spouse's account and not yours so you're [TS]

  talking to but it doesn't understand it [TS]

  doesn't know anything about that flight [TS]

  because it's done through a different [TS]

  google ID or you know like so many [TS]

  possible things can go wrong to make [TS]

  them not working when they do go wrong [TS]

  even in the slightest way it's like the [TS]

  old you know give up and use tables [TS]

  website it's like if anything goes wrong [TS]

  at all right forget how to do an iphone [TS]

  or I'll sit down in front of the [TS]

  computer because no I'm trying to have [TS]

  an argument and getting a text adventure [TS]

  syntax game with this thing so it all [TS]

  looks magical and and the same thing [TS]

  with like ordering food all the food [TS]

  waiting for you to get home [TS]

  food from where you want korean found in [TS]

  your restaurant you just accepting the [TS]

  restaurant that he gave you what if you [TS]

  don't like the restaurant doesn't learn [TS]

  which restaurant you like does it like [TS]

  there [TS]

  there's still this is so primitive where [TS]

  it's not and I don't feel like it's [TS]

  going to help me with my life unless I [TS]

  just don't care where things come from [TS]

  want the most generic things like I [TS]

  wanted to know i always get indian food [TS]

  from this place or if it's not sure they [TS]

  should ask me do you want to get into [TS]

  place you got last time and it's all [TS]

  predicated on the fact that it can order [TS]

  from those places you probably can't [TS]

  because your favorite in places no idea [TS]

  what computers are and they only take [TS]

  cash and it's it just doesn't [TS]

  we're not there yet and these ads make [TS]

  it seem like they are there but I don't [TS]

  know anybody except like mattis maybe [TS]

  who can actually live this life like [TS]

  where you just touch talking to the air [TS]

  and everything you do is exactly [TS]

  integrated and well he wouldn't like it [TS]

  because you have know exactly where [TS]

  everything is coming from you can't you [TS]

  can't just say army indian food is the [TS]

  safe Casey we talk about anybody can [TS]

  just say army needs will be waiting for [TS]

  you yet you'll be happy [TS]

  order what what do you want to order [TS]

  from where like it just it grinds my [TS]

  gears to see that but anyway I i do have [TS]

  confidence that google is going to be [TS]

  better at this natural language stuff [TS]

  than amazon just because they have so [TS]

  many smart people doing this and Amazon [TS]

  probably has a smaller slightly smaller [TS]

  number of smart people dying but amazon [TS]

  has has I think two big strains I mean [TS]

  number one first of all I mentioned they [TS]

  have massive retail power here to push [TS]

  these things and [TS]

  by all accounts the echo had probably [TS]

  already has a a decent-sized install [TS]

  base so that's that's you know barrier [TS]

  number one for Google to try to overcome [TS]

  you can you can overcome like the head [TS]

  start the echo has gotten with a good [TS]

  product but it's gonna be really hard to [TS]

  overcome the massive retail and [TS]

  promotional advantage you know just [TS]

  asking just ask anybody who has tried to [TS]

  make a successful technically advanced [TS]

  e-reader in the last you know eight [TS]

  years or so but that google has a big in [TS]

  there because google home [TS]

  who cares if the little turd that's an [TS]

  outer downgraded from people ever sell [TS]

  because all the set the same thing is [TS]

  all powered by the whole assistant thing [TS]

  and that's going to be on all their [TS]

  phones and they have a ton of phone so [TS]

  that is there that is the wedge [TS]

  basically like look maybe the home never [TS]

  beats out the echo but if we can make [TS]

  this thing on all of our phones so that [TS]

  you know the the 50-percent plus of the [TS]

  world that has android smartphones gets [TS]

  used to using this on their phones then [TS]

  they'll still win because again the [TS]

  phone is going to swap how many people [TS]

  bought a little Solis cylinder even if [TS]

  people just shout across the room to [TS]

  their phones and people started adding [TS]

  multiple microphone so you're right that [TS]

  is a barrier but google already has like [TS]

  a beachhead there they have they have a [TS]

  way around like I think google care less [TS]

  whether Google home succeeds then [TS]

  whether this assistive technology [TS]

  becomes sort of what Google is known for [TS]

  in the modern error instead of just web [TS]

  search [TS]

  that's fair well so-and-so the other the [TS]

  other all gather at the advantage that [TS]

  amazon has right now is that the echo is [TS]

  not trying to be that kind of like super [TS]

  smart fantasy California land you know [TS]

  or community food which magically does [TS]

  exactly the right thing you want like [TS]

  the echo is more like a really simple [TS]

  command-line and once you learn the [TS]

  relatively small vocabulary and and [TS]

  syntax that a dead it supports it's [TS]

  incredibly reliable doing those things [TS]

  and so it I think while it might at [TS]

  first have a slightly higher learning [TS]

  curve for like you know day one two [TS]

  three [TS]

  I think once you get past the very very [TS]

  initial part of it i would say the [TS]

  echoes actually easier to use once you [TS]

  figure out things the kind of things [TS]

  that work with it [TS]

  those things work incredibly reliably [TS]

  and so that's that's the challenge [TS]

  anybody has commanded us like I think [TS]

  serie doesn't do as well that because [TS]

  serie tries to do more doesn't have an [TS]

  API that to Siri tries to do more but it [TS]

  doesn't it doesn't really do any of them [TS]

  reliably enough it and it's hard to know [TS]

  before you before you ask Siri something [TS]

  it's hard to know whether you will [TS]

  succeed or not [TS]

  whereas with the echo it's you get you [TS]

  you figure it out within a few days to [TS]

  figure out okay this is the kind of [TS]

  thing will succeed this is the kind of [TS]

  want google is obviously trying to be [TS]

  very ambitious with with the kinds of [TS]

  things that that their thing can do the [TS]

  google home can do we will see if it [TS]

  works I think if anybody can do that [TS]

  kind of complexity it's them so it might [TS]

  work to me I think the biggest risk for [TS]

  buying into the google home ecosystem is [TS]

  whether Google themselves will lose [TS]

  interest or it will fail within a few [TS]

  years because you know their track [TS]

  record for that isn't great either [TS]

  something is not working they're the [TS]

  first ones to to kill it usually just [TS]

  don't tell them to feedburner is still [TS]

  running because i think they thought I [TS]

  think about it but anyway you know [TS]

  google is they [TS]

  if you look at the history of like [TS]

  various initiatives they've had various [TS]

  like big platforms have tried to launch [TS]

  its it's littered it's a huge graveyard [TS]

  stuff they've shut down so it's no [TS]

  different than amazon well that's true [TS]

  but if they try this out if it doesn't [TS]

  get very far in the market it you know [TS]

  they could choose to fight harder and to [TS]

  keep going or to shut it down so and if [TS]

  you if you like bought the wrong [TS]

  hardware and they shut yours down like [TS]

  that kind of sucks it's kind of like a [TS]

  format war going on but don't you think [TS]

  this this has a big advantage in that [TS]

  the underlying technology was under like [TS]

  this and aloe and all that stuff but the [TS]

  underlying sort of machine intelligence [TS]

  natural language processing speech [TS]

  interface that I feel like is a core [TS]

  technological effort to google that is [TS]

  not going away like a hundred percent [TS]

  guaranteed not going away right now the [TS]

  individual products you're right maybe [TS]

  they get google home and end up like oh [TS]

  we have the second version is not [TS]

  compatible and you're stuck with some [TS]

  bad hardware and they meant to stop [TS]

  supporting I could totally see that [TS]

  happening [TS]

  that's a danger in any sort of product [TS]

  like this and there you know [TS]

  historically because i have not been [TS]

  particularly good about preserving that [TS]

  but I if you're going to have any faith [TS]

  in any sign of product efforts it's not [TS]

  going to be like the the weather [TS]

  balloons that give you Wi-Fi or the [TS]

  self-driving cars is going to be the [TS]

  natural extension of basically the [TS]

  Google's core product which is search [TS]

  which is that taking that to the next [TS]

  level also because it ties into [TS]

  advertising if you can be honest like a [TS]

  why would Google stick with this time [TS]

  ever they've been doing it for years [TS]

  right and be it totally fits with web [TS]

  search both web search and advertising [TS]

  so i have to think that this effort will [TS]

  continue to go on and if these products [TS]

  are like that they will iterate on them [TS]

  that they will they will make future [TS]

  versions of and then we'll keep going [TS]

  and there is a still slim chance that [TS]

  you buy some hardware might be offered [TS]

  because they bail on that have a new [TS]

  iteration with a new name or whatever [TS]

  but I really think this is not esoteric [TS]

  or in in fear of being a [TS]

  flash-in-the-pan simply because it just [TS]

  read so much as Google to be a not [TS]

  tangential like I feel like this is if [TS]

  you were to say what does google like 50 [TS]

  years in the future [TS]

  it looks less like typing in text boxes [TS]

  and more like a much better version of [TS]

  this because it's just such a natural [TS]

  extension and certainly wasn't machine [TS]

  learning was their version of customer [TS]

  SAT like if we were doing a drinking [TS]

  game and machine learning caused you to [TS]

  drink you would have been under the [TS]

  table after the first 20 minutes because [TS]

  that's all we heard about and I mean [TS]

  Apple has its own foibles and very [TS]

  similar ways like customer SAT but [TS]

  machine learning was all over this [TS]

  keynote and i agree with you John but [TS]

  that seems to be where they're pushing [TS]

  as a company is is trying to leverage [TS]

  that machine learning in in any possible [TS]

  way that they can and in some of those [TS]

  ways like I've been talking about with [TS]

  google photos and with google home [TS]

  I think it looks really promising and [TS]

  really really interesting and like it [TS]

  sits there was their their their logo or [TS]

  their motto revision state whatever like [TS]

  organizing the world's information [TS]

  they've been slowly but steadily doing [TS]

  that over the course of many many years [TS]

  trying to get semantics into the [TS]

  information so i don't understand not [TS]

  just like oh this word appears there and [TS]

  these people link to that page but [TS]

  understanding what the information is [TS]

  that is actually looking at two [TS]

  that's how we can do that photo stuff [TS]

  isn't the photos that doesn't just come [TS]

  out of nowhere get a one-year project to [TS]

  do it that's based on years and years of [TS]

  research outside google and within and [TS]

  just working on it working on their [TS]

  their language parsing that open source [TS]

  that big you know natural language [TS]

  processing thing and image recognition [TS]

  and then stuffed with robotic this is [TS]

  all about taking in information and then [TS]

  developing an understanding of it that [TS]

  can be encoded by computer so the [TS]

  computers can act on it so it's not just [TS]

  text so that they understand the meaning [TS]

  behind things once you have even the [TS]

  barest meaning or the barest sort of [TS]

  sensory perception of like is a car as a [TS]

  hug [TS]

  what language this end where the words [TS]

  mean that previous sentence when I say [TS]

  said he and the next sense what are they [TS]

  talking about like it's really basic [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  conceptually but it's really hard to do [TS]

  for computers and they're doing on such [TS]

  a massive scale that that that effort in [TS]

  that research just is going to underlie [TS]

  all their products from from here going [TS]

  forward and maybe they're gonna hit that [TS]

  inflection point where suddenly becomes [TS]

  acceptable and and like it passes the [TS]

  barrier from tech curiosity that were [TS]

  all impressed by that but then only [TS]

  nerds really use to just a normal thing [TS]

  that everybody does [TS]

  we may be getting close to that if only [TS]

  because people don't like typing stuff [TS]

  is all someone tweeting when the i/o [TS]

  things going on at like how many people [TS]

  will still see interacting with their [TS]

  android phones or there you know iOS [TS]

  devices purely by speech even though a [TS]

  computer nerd looking at them with just [TS]

  cringe and how incredibly inefficient is [TS]

  to essentially be arguing with your [TS]

  phone and saying things over and over [TS]

  again and trying to type things just [TS]

  just just give me your phone let me show [TS]

  you how to do this but people prefer it [TS]

  even when it's totally broken and crappy [TS]

  and doesn't work right [TS]

  just because it's more comfortable for [TS]

  them so i think we're probably closer to [TS]

  the inflection point where most people [TS]

  use what will continue to be the most [TS]

  massively inefficient way to do anything [TS]

  especially when it has any sort of error [TS]

  simply because it's just more [TS]

  comfortable for them then trying to [TS]

  figure out what things to tap on or what [TS]

  to type our final sponsor this week is [TS]

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  anything is and I i usually do to alert [TS]

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  one of the five web servers is not rape [TS]

  is not responding or the server has it [TS]

  has a very limited space or something [TS]

  and that just sends me emails and [TS]

  notifications and then I have another [TS]

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  that sets off the alarm bells that sends [TS]

  me text messages that is like a type you [TS]

  know loud notifications it's like the [TS]

  different level of alerts what they know [TS]

  i've also used in the past to do things [TS]

  like like monitor the Apple WC website [TS]

  to see when WC was announced every year [TS]

  because we monitor the page for change [TS]

  it is so you don't actually have to own [TS]

  the sites are monitoring the kingdom [TS]

  it's great i recommend them I use it [TS]

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  our show [TS]

  let's talk about allow governor og's and [TS]

  you still wanted to say that i know i [TS]

  just wanted to say i did i did the this [TS]

  is going to be the week of bad podcast [TS]

  british accents [TS]

  hey yeah if they didn't put an [TS]

  apostrophe before the a that's true [TS]

  that's true i'll buy it reminds me a lot [TS]

  of fellow that weird social network that [TS]

  didn't go anywhere [TS]

  it's still spams me for every few days [TS]

  but something that subscribe button [TS]

  subscribe for all those i have anyway so [TS]

  Google LOL is the UH I message knock off [TS]

  but with a lot more it's not just [TS]

  something I message along I was like a [TS]

  line knock off or what's that love hurts [TS]

  it's much more likely be much more [TS]

  sophisticated messaging apps that are [TS]

  used outside the apple ecosystem it's [TS]

  got stickers for crying out loud [TS]

  fair enough that's a big text yeah so [TS]

  actually that was a very interesting [TS]

  interaction so they went i forget which [TS]

  person is presented with this the [TS]

  British woman that was presenting at [TS]

  this point in any case somebody whoever [TS]

  was presenting was talking about how [TS]

  there are times when you want to kind of [TS]

  shout when it in a text message [TS]

  conversation there's times where you [TS]

  kind of want to whisper and so they [TS]

  allow you to change the font size within [TS]

  a low which in and of itself doesn't [TS]

  seem that impressive but I thought the [TS]

  interaction is pretty cool [TS]

  we're on iOS in the messages app you [TS]

  have a little microphone icon and you [TS]

  can swipe up and down to like send an [TS]

  audio message what they do is they [TS]

  if you tap and hold roughly where our [TS]

  microphone icon is it will let you kind [TS]

  of drag a slider up and down to change [TS]

  the the size of the fund which I thought [TS]

  again was a very clever interaction so [TS]

  many things wrong with that from a [TS]

  usability perspective that I can you [TS]

  like and from a taste perspective like [TS]

  this is just such a totally a google [TS]

  thing to do [TS]

  where someone thinks is a cool feature [TS]

  and it seems like they don't think quite [TS]

  enough about the implications both [TS]

  aesthetically where you can make really [TS]

  ugly look at even the demo screenshots [TS]

  looking for the ugly and I was thinking [TS]

  to myself that there's anything wrong [TS]

  with ugly and garish like it that's the [TS]

  SI you're going for but i was thinking [TS]

  like this is the opposite of the Apple [TS]

  aesthetic and it can be more fun like [TS]

  the APIs that it can be boring right you [TS]

  know or [TS]

  everything is all hell that again [TS]

  everything is the same size and [TS]

  everything is sort of clean and [TS]

  button-down like you know I'm not I'm [TS]

  not slamming i'm really not like but I [TS]

  saw him like wow this is definitely [TS]

  something that wouldn't do and for the [TS]

  shouting find fun make your text bigger [TS]

  it's fun to shout so on and so forth [TS]

  whispering not good for usability you [TS]

  telling me i can make the text [TS]

  microscopic boy of my age relatives will [TS]

  love to squinted that when I owe you [TS]

  don't understand great on whispering no [TS]

  you can't I mean maybe it's over right [TS]

  about the local level but it just [TS]

  doesn't make for a good demo because the [TS]

  obvious question which is really i can [TS]

  make text so small that my recipient can [TS]

  even region [TS]

  even region [TS]

  the squint that's the question in [TS]

  people's minds if they're looking at it [TS]

  from an accessibility perspective so [TS]

  just throw a sentence out there that [TS]

  says the thing that I really hope is [TS]

  true which is like oh and of course the [TS]

  recipients at a minimum font sizes in [TS]

  like whatever you have to say address [TS]

  the will get this later with some more [TS]

  stuff from the the knock-knock duo what [TS]

  do you call a videoconferencing thing [TS]

  like if there's an obvious there should [TS]

  be an obvious question most people's [TS]

  minds about the future you're going [TS]

  throw out a sentence or two to reassure [TS]

  us that the feature that you surely [TS]

  added to account for this is there [TS]

  because if you don't say it or left to [TS]

  think that you haven't thought of it and [TS]

  even if that's not true gives a bad [TS]

  impression and in this case I don't [TS]

  trust cool to think these things they [TS]

  very often do things that like you know [TS]

  that the company the company's persona [TS]

  is that of an individual that doesn't [TS]

  account for the variety of different [TS]

  kinds of people on lives that are out [TS]

  there and I know they're fighting very [TS]

  hard against that don't know it's kind [TS]

  of unfair but a lot of times I see [TS]

  Google do things with obvious problems [TS]

  that i assume that they have accounted [TS]

  for [TS]

  then they release a product I said oh [TS]

  they didn't account for that in fact it [TS]

  seems like that even think of that and [TS]

  they'll fix it after the fact their [TS]

  credit and it's not like they're trying [TS]

  to to do something wrong but sometimes [TS]

  they dropped the ball so I'm saying [TS]

  Google your presentations for the [TS]

  foreseeable future when you'd show a [TS]

  feature that has obvious problems [TS]

  throughout to us APPL assault I'm short [TS]

  two or three words to say oh and of [TS]

  course don't worry about this because we [TS]

  handle it an XY way like in the obvious [TS]

  way because I don't think for me anyway [TS]

  they get the past making me think that [TS]

  they thought of that I think that's [TS]

  understandable [TS]

  we should also talk about the predictive [TS]

  replies are suggested replies with King [TS]

  machine-learning ding that seems weird [TS]

  to me and I very conflicting thoughts [TS]

  about this which is actually kind of a [TS]

  theme for most of what I what I thought [TS]

  of google i/o but it seemed odd to me to [TS]

  have suggested replies on a phone or a [TS]

  tablet where it's relatively easy to [TS]

  type like I don't have I don't really [TS]

  have a problem with it on the Apple [TS]

  watch partially because it's so terrible [TS]

  in partially because partially because [TS]

  you can't exactly type on an Apple watch [TS]

  it [TS]

  going to get to that later as well [TS]

  hopefully but on a device where there's [TS]

  some reasonable approximation of a [TS]

  keyboard it just seems insensitive like [TS]

  one of the examples they use like a [TS]

  picture of a kid uh how cute was one of [TS]

  the replies like I don't know it just [TS]

  seems insensitive or Colton both so [TS]

  here's an example a great following fri [TS]

  said he remember where they did realize [TS]

  what the obvious objection to this [TS]

  feature would be and address it with the [TS]

  sensor choose so the obvious objection [TS]

  for the demos is like I would never tap [TS]

  any of those circles because all of them [TS]

  sound like inane things like that that's [TS]

  not how I communicate right just like [TS]

  you were saying like really all how cute [TS]

  am I going to send that like or it's [TS]

  going to look like a form letter or it's [TS]

  gonna look like an reply nomid similar [TS]

  complaints about the inbox software they [TS]

  have her auto replying to emails and [TS]

  stuff like that [TS]

  that's the obvious objection to any sort [TS]

  of hey we'll figure out what you're [TS]

  gonna reply and give it to you in a box [TS]

  right and they addressed immediately [TS]

  with a single sentence which may or you [TS]

  know maybe we're not actually address [TS]

  the issue in the product but they're [TS]

  saying oh and don't worry we will learn [TS]

  from what you actually reply and suggest [TS]

  things that are essentially things that [TS]

  you have said before that are otherwise [TS]

  in your voice now will they be [TS]

  successful at that [TS]

  well they just literally have replies [TS]

  have had before and it'll sound dumb and [TS]

  none of that none of the boxes look [TS]

  right but at least they understand that [TS]

  they can't suggest replies without [TS]

  taking what you how you actually [TS]

  communicate as an input and so they said [TS]

  no that's exactly what we're doing now [TS]

  again they can do a bad job of it and [TS]

  will still be a stupid feature that that [TS]

  people want to turn off but if they do a [TS]

  good job but it's like yes that's [TS]

  exactly what I want I want you to watch [TS]

  how i type to people and preferably how [TS]

  I communicate with different people how [TS]

  do i reply to my mom vs my wife vs my [TS]

  friend you know what I mean that's [TS]

  machine learning and again they keep [TS]

  bleeding on that hopefully that's what [TS]

  they're aiming for [TS]

  they're not saying oh we're just going [TS]

  to give you a bunch of kin replies like [TS]

  the Apple watch does our [TS]

  probabilistically try to make a reply [TS]

  that would make some sense you know [TS]

  Apple watch is not learning our applied [TS]

  has no way to learn from our reply apple [TS]

  doesn't have that information or [TS]

  whatever but google at least says this [TS]

  is what we're trying to do and I really [TS]

  hope they do because that's that's the [TS]

  dream right [TS]

  yeah that's where they also have plenty [TS]

  of third-party integrations in ello [TS]

  and I initially was really keen on this [TS]

  so i forget the exact example they used [TS]

  but say you're talking with your wife [TS]

  about where you want to go to dinner and [TS]

  you know so I'm talking about it she so [TS]

  would you like pizza and I say yes I'd [TS]

  love some cc's then it will try to [TS]

  figure out some sort of contextual e [TS]

  relevant information like if it's [TS]

  something nicer than CC so can i get [TS]

  your reservation or perhaps here's [TS]

  directions there cetera and on the wall [TS]

  at first i thought wow that's super [TS]

  convenient really useful but then I [TS]

  thought about it and I thought I don't [TS]

  know if I'd really want that in an [TS]

  iMessage conversation which obviously [TS]

  heroes are approximately equivalent with [TS]

  aaron like that just seems weird to me [TS]

  and and I can't I haven't put my finger [TS]

  on which 1i think more [TS]

  well it's great that they kept leaning [TS]

  on this and I think it is a great [TS]

  features that you don't have to leave [TS]

  the apt this frustrates me when I'm on [TS]

  my phone communicate with somebody that [TS]

  i have to like wait let me go google [TS]

  that or we know wait let me go to the [TS]

  other apt to do the thing having [TS]

  everything in line one aspect of it is [TS]

  like do I want the other person to see [TS]

  sort of the research I'm doing here do i [TS]

  want to share these things that's [TS]

  questionable debatable though if you're [TS]

  trying to decide in restaurants maybe [TS]

  they do want to see them so you don't [TS]

  have to describe the restaurants are [TS]

  typed them all in so i can see the [TS]

  deciding what to share versus what's [TS]

  your own but the big advantage that [TS]

  Apple that google is selling and i think [TS]

  is a real advantages you don't switch to [TS]

  15 different apps you can get it all [TS]

  done here mostly because sort of the [TS]

  power of google is showing through [TS]

  inside this chat application we will do [TS]

  all the searching in the pulling of the [TS]

  search results in smart ways and even [TS]

  the ordering in the making the [TS]

  reservation and again it falls back on [TS]

  like that's a silly scenario unless [TS]

  everything in your life is integrated [TS]

  with google and all the things you care [TS]

  about their party integration but hey at [TS]

  least they have third-party integrations [TS]

  and third-party really care about this [TS]

  they can integrate and never a start [TS]

  really cares and wants to sell to tech [TS]

  nerds in the san francisco area they can [TS]

  integrate with it doesn't help [TS]

  most of the rest of the country whose [TS]

  favorite restaurants are not integrated [TS]

  in this way but at least maybe you can [TS]

  get directions to them assuming the [TS]

  google has accurate information for [TS]

  where they are so of this one is a [TS]

  little bit fantasy but Google is doing [TS]

  all the right things I think making [TS]

  people not leave the app is actually the [TS]

  right thing is just difficult to draw [TS]

  line of how much crap to any of the [TS]

  other person to see versus how much [TS]

  stuff do I need to see to make a [TS]

  decision [TS]

  yep they also allow you to play what [TS]

  they call the emoji game in line so if [TS]

  you get bored talking to your spouse you [TS]

  can play the guess the movie title by [TS]

  emojis game which strikes me as the one [TS]

  they call a digital touch features on [TS]

  the Apple watch but but it's not though [TS]

  because this was just there sort of like [TS]

  hello world example program the ideas [TS]

  that again third parties can make actual [TS]

  fun teams with this API this is more [TS]

  like see its name it's like making a you [TS]

  know an echo server for demonstrating [TS]

  your like simple you know server-side [TS]

  concurrency framework right it just goes [TS]

  back whatever you put in [TS]

  it's not a real thing it's an API and [TS]

  they fully expect people to make real [TS]

  fun games out of this and you know [TS]

  integrations with third-party products [TS]

  games leading third-party products like [TS]

  there are many opportunities for both [TS]

  advertising and commerce integrated into [TS]

  this and so I think I think showing that [TS]

  and by the way onstage essentially [TS]

  saying shall we play a game to your [TS]

  computer is not a good look so maybe [TS]

  stay away from that but the big thing I [TS]

  think they weren't selling is that we [TS]

  didn't just make a chat app that has [TS]

  some features in this version of Android [TS]

  this is now another platform for you to [TS]

  target all your stuff that you people [TS]

  out there who have products and [TS]

  applications and services can integrate [TS]

  with this and be integrated with it in a [TS]

  way that you people can buy your stuff [TS]

  and find their way to your thing and [TS]

  play your game that advertises your [TS]

  thing or whatever like that's the [TS]

  feature the actual like emoji game I i [TS]

  don't think that was it was probably [TS]

  clear to developers but a regular person [TS]

  saw they'll be like oh I'm not [TS]

  interested in mochigames I'm gonna [TS]

  ignore the emoji game that is just a [TS]

  proof-of-concept hello world type thing [TS]

  other integrations is what you're [TS]

  looking for here [TS]

  fair enough then they made mention [TS]

  during the yellow conversation and a [TS]

  couple other times about security which [TS]

  I really really liked that Google and [TS]

  Apple seem to be quietly colluding in [TS]

  the good way to try to make their their [TS]

  platforms more secure but that being [TS]

  said I wasn't entirely clear on what the [TS]

  security situation is in l.o it seems [TS]

  that there's kind of two modes there's [TS]

  the general normal use mode which is [TS]

  encrypted ish i guess it's encrypted [TS]

  enough to prevent snooping by anyone but [TS]

  google because they need to have their [TS]

  equivalent of slackware yes [TS]

  yeah the slack bought in there in order [TS]

  to see offer all these suggestions and [TS]

  then there's an incognito mode which is [TS]

  just like chrome in your messaging app [TS]

  which is apparently encrypted et tui for [TS]

  end-to-end that just I i like it overall [TS]

  but that just seems weird to me to have [TS]

  to think about whether or not you want [TS]

  this to be indented encrypted yeah and I [TS]

  wasn't clear to ride but i watch most of [TS]

  this presentation but didn't get a [TS]

  chance to really watch the segment in [TS]

  incognito mode doesn't hide you as the [TS]

  centre-right like it's it it's the other [TS]

  person still knows it's you talking [TS]

  right you just initiated a new [TS]

  end-to-end encrypted sighs I think [TS]

  that's correct yeah alright so anyway [TS]

  yeah it's it's it's I think you you got [TS]

  exactly right it it's a difference [TS]

  between can could google encrypt this if [TS]

  they wanted to [TS]

  in theory or can't nobody do it and as [TS]

  has been talking discussed at length [TS]

  with iMessage even though I messages and [TS]

  encrypted well because Apple has control [TS]

  over the key servers still technically [TS]

  of Apple wanted to be in the various [TS]

  they could you know to grip your [TS]

  conversations as they happen they don't [TS]

  do that and they don't plan to do that [TS]

  and they and they say they'll fight the [TS]

  government steps to make them do that [TS]

  but there's so many other ways to get [TS]

  the information like the I could be [TS]

  encrypted iCloud backups of your [TS]

  conversations and yeah it's much more [TS]

  complicated than simply putting into we [TS]

  open screen especially with it with it [TS]

  with the government climate the way it [TS]

  is but yeah the reason google I think [TS]

  doesn't didn't have I message that [TS]

  encryption for the beginning is because [TS]

  google wants to be able to see [TS]

  everything that you type and it wants to [TS]

  have a participant in the conversation [TS]

  was in on it even if you didn't end and [TS]

  encryption one of your authenticated and [TS]

  then recipients would be [TS]

  something on Google server somewhere [TS]

  like I don't think they're anonymizing [TS]

  when they go back like a palace when [TS]

  they go back to the serious stuff is [TS]

  they kind of have to know things about [TS]

  you and know who you are to do smart [TS]

  server-side things I don't think all [TS]

  this is happening on the phone right [TS]

  there is a service I component so it's [TS]

  the attention we always talked about is [TS]

  like that Apple's trying to be good [TS]

  about privacy and I don't even want to [TS]

  know your stuff but if you want [TS]

  personalized service from you know in an [TS]

  intelligent agent with machine learning [TS]

  television has to know how you who you [TS]

  are i mean i wanted to know who i am but [TS]

  now all of a sudden this intelligent [TS]

  agent is privy to my conversations and [TS]

  it's not a person and it's essentially [TS]

  only controlled by google so end and [TS]

  contribute and encrypting it with the [TS]

  agent is not really helping things are [TS]

  you worried about the the government [TS]

  forcing google to get records anyway I [TS]

  think in this day and age if there's [TS]

  something you don't want the government [TS]

  to see don't send it through google or [TS]

  any other service probably even Apple I [TS]

  mean apples probably your best bet but [TS]

  in general you have to take encryption [TS]

  into your own hands you actually I was [TS]

  just fairly easy to do like it you know [TS]

  the math exists out there you can get [TS]

  encryption software and use it yourself [TS]

  and communicate with somebody in a way [TS]

  that the government can subpoena anybody [TS]

  to get but the end you'll probably just [TS]

  screwed up and they'll be able to social [TS]

  engineer something out of goodness [TS]

  alright let's talk about duo and knock [TS]

  knock so duo is facetime but not there's [TS]

  more to it than that and then what is [TS]

  knock-knock that's the intro mode in duo [TS]

  is that right yeah but that's enough [TS]

  this is another one of the demos where [TS]

  they didn't say the obvious thing like [TS]

  oh and when someone's calling you look I [TS]

  can see my daughter and I you know it's [TS]

  like you're your phone is ringing [TS]

  centers like FaceTime ringing right and [TS]

  rather than just seeing the name of the [TS]

  caller and maybe like a little picture [TS]

  of them from your contacts or whatever [TS]

  like you know your daughter is calling [TS]

  and you see the daughters name and yet [TS]

  still picture your daughter what you [TS]

  instead see is video from the the caller [TS]

  side before you've decided whether you [TS]

  want to pick up or not right [TS]

  how can you do that demo on stage and [TS]

  not immediately say but don't worry this [TS]

  only happens for known contacts that are [TS]

  in your address [TS]

  spoken communication surely that is the [TS]

  case to say that you have to actually [TS]

  say the words it takes two seconds to [TS]

  say the words otherwise the entire [TS]

  audience is going oh my god naked people [TS]

  are gonna be calling me constantly and [TS]

  i'm going to instantly see their video [TS]

  because i can't stop them it's like I [TS]

  like do they not have women the company [TS]

  like this is it that women would say i [TS]

  do not want to see a million guys junk [TS]

  as they randomly dial me and I have no [TS]

  choice and I see video of it immediately [TS]

  like and again I don't think that's [TS]

  gonna happen [TS]

  surely this only works for like your [TS]

  favorite so you're known contacts like [TS]

  that's got to be a feature but you have [TS]

  to say it onstage because otherwise i [TS]

  think google seriously do you know I [TS]

  don't get that really bothered me that [TS]

  went unmentioned I I feel like even [TS]

  Apple would say and don't worry this [TS]

  only works for your contacts [TS]

  see how easy that is google I mean and [TS]

  again surely that's the case I think [TS]

  they have to be engineered inside Google [TS]

  you know who understand the privacy [TS]

  implications of unsolicited video from [TS]

  strangers appearing on your phone screen [TS]

  but they didn't say it in the [TS]

  presentation or they didn't i missed it [TS]

  on i'm sorry now i don't think they did [TS]

  boy boy is someone put on the chatroom [TS]

  junk time to face so the thing that [TS]

  bothered me about the knock knock [TS]

  to be honest I didn't think about that [TS]

  but you're absolutely right but I think [TS]

  about me about knock-knock was they [TS]

  started from a good place which was [TS]

  video calling phone calls in general but [TS]

  particularly video calls are extreme [TS]

  extreme interruption and you have to [TS]

  really dedicate your entire attention to [TS]

  a video call and sometimes it is not a [TS]

  convenient time for that but then again [TS]

  I'm not in on the other side of the coin [TS]

  what if what if Aaron is calling me to [TS]

  say oh my god Declan just took his first [TS]

  steps or something like that so they [TS]

  what knock does is it lets you see what [TS]

  this person is calling about so i can [TS]

  see Aaron in Declan and I can see her [TS]

  freaking out and they in their little [TS]

  demo reel video they showed a guy who's [TS]

  holding up to ticket stubs like he had [TS]

  gotten tickets to a concert or something [TS]

  like that and then they showed another [TS]

  person who hold it up there left hand to [TS]

  show i think was their engagement ring [TS]

  and so the problem i had with this and [TS]

  maybe I'm maybe I'm just being a jerk [TS]

  about it but it was like you have to [TS]

  earn your right for them to pick up your [TS]

  phone call when you have to earn it and [TS]

  you can't just call and be smiling you [TS]

  gotta perform you gotta put on a show [TS]

  for I'm not picking up the damn phone [TS]

  more than I gotta go bye [TS]

  I don't think the real problem is again [TS]

  I it's only gonna be your actual people [TS]

  you know doing this right who's video [TS]

  calling you anyway no one is cold video [TS]

  calling you or any case you wouldn't [TS]

  pick up it's going to be able you know [TS]

  and the only time they would video call [TS]

  you instead of regular call you is if [TS]

  they have something to show off or [TS]

  they're an adorable right right [TS]

  why else are they gonna know what to get [TS]

  a video call you just to essentially [TS]

  have a phone conversation because who [TS]

  wants people looking at them unless they [TS]

  have something to show are they and [TS]

  their an impressive place so I don't [TS]

  know I don't know I guess it depends on [TS]

  who you talk to but i don't feel like [TS]

  anybody who I would ever video call [TS]

  would deny my call because I was not [TS]

  sufficiently excited while the other [TS]

  thing is any first-time conversation [TS]

  I've ever had has almost always been [TS]

  preceded by an iMessage conversation [TS]

  being saying head like to facetime your [TS]

  you cool you know it's almost to your [TS]

  point John it's an almost never me cold [TS]

  calling or somebody cold calling me [TS]

  saying you're with no for previous [TS]

  warning but is that perhaps because [TS]

  there is no knock-knock like feature for [TS]

  me to kind of screen that call [TS]

  maybe I do get those by the way I do get [TS]

  a surprising number of not not phone [TS]

  calls but facetime calls randomly on my [TS]

  phone and of course I'm max integrated [TS]

  with my father and throwing you [TS]

  strangers know it's like an unknown [TS]

  yes that's unknown caller really number [TS]

  and and not a phone call and not a [TS]

  FaceTime audio called actual facetime [TS]

  video cool i don't know if there's like [TS]

  war dialers out there every single [TS]

  number [TS]

  no I've never answered one of them so i [TS]

  have no idea what's going on but it's [TS]

  annoying that it makes the facetime like [TS]

  bloop bloop sound like I've had like it [TS]

  i have a few relatives who basically [TS]

  treat facetime like phone calls and so [TS]

  they will just call me on facetime like [TS]

  you know unannounced and that's their [TS]

  goal they can still do that I think yes [TS]

  I'm and but I you know I've never wish [TS]

  for this feature I'm sure it's fine it [TS]

  it's really going to be odd at first [TS]

  before anybody is used to it because [TS]

  that's not how things have gone so far [TS]

  with these kind of video calling things [TS]

  like so there's there's kind of an [TS]

  expectation that you are not being [TS]

  broadcast before the person picks up so [TS]

  I think you're going [TS]

  you picking their nose and adjusting [TS]

  their hair and stuff like that it just [TS]

  like you know embarrassing prep before [TS]

  they think they're being watched [TS]

  yeah I mean yeah there's something that [TS]

  people have to get used to but that I [TS]

  think they will be so hopefully it's an [TS]

  optional feature again something that [TS]

  didn't mention like is this optional [TS]

  yeah it should be for only known [TS]

  contacts and for known contacts should [TS]

  be an option because maybe you don't [TS]

  want that to be the case so really [TS]

  exactly the way you said you just more [TS]

  used to like until they pick up i'm not [TS]

  on camera yeah a couple of quick notes [TS]

  about this it apparently does really [TS]

  really well with graceful degradation as [TS]

  the connection gets crappier and then [TS]

  whatever the opposite of that his things [TS]

  get better and the thing that I'm most [TS]

  excited about about this is that it's [TS]

  multi-platform and i believe at one [TS]

  point or another they had said that LOL [TS]

  and presumably duo operates where your [TS]

  phone numbers kind of your user ID if [TS]

  you will and something that I've [TS]

  struggled with is aaron side of the [TS]

  family with the exception of aaron is [TS]

  exclusively android and there have been [TS]

  several times where we'd like to have a [TS]

  video chat with her mom which in [TS]

  normally looks about 20 minutes away but [TS]

  maybe Declan is doing something funny or [TS]

  maybe I don't know is we want to show [TS]

  her something in the house we'd like to [TS]

  do video chat and we don't feel like we [TS]

  have a mechanism to do that now yes i [TS]

  know that skype exist yes i know that [TS]

  hangouts exist [TS]

  yes i know that there are many other [TS]

  video chat apps that exists but there's [TS]

  nothing that i personally have used that [TS]

  is as easy as facetime and i hope that [TS]

  this duo thing will be as easy as [TS]

  facetime and so will be able to install [TS]

  this on our iphones and my in-laws will [TS]

  be able to install it on their android [TS]

  phones and we'll be able to do these [TS]

  very quick very simple video chats on a [TS]

  whim which would be really really [TS]

  awesome and I'm really looking forward [TS]

  to that hopefully working or you can [TS]

  just wait for facetime to become an open [TS]

  standards because they're what they're [TS]

  going to the standards bodies today with [TS]

  that it's just a matter of time now [TS]

  yeah this is another thing that that's [TS]

  google's strength is in my experience [TS]

  with google hangouts for example is it [TS]

  is the the first and best sort of [TS]

  multiple people on a video stream thing [TS]

  that I've ever used and I was the [TS]

  quality great no but they like like [TS]

  really good video games and good iOS [TS]

  applications and so many good things [TS]

  they are they understand that the most [TS]

  important thing like they understand the [TS]

  hierarchy of needs in a video call [TS]

  number one audio if you have to drop the [TS]

  video committee on the audio do it [TS]

  because nothing is it is more annoying [TS]

  than not being able to hear people and [TS]

  then number two responsiveness video [TS]

  rather than quality if you have to drop [TS]

  the quality too obscene level just to [TS]

  keep track of someone waving their and [TS]

  then do it like responsiveness and an [TS]

  understanding the audio is the most [TS]

  important thing and my frustrations [TS]

  faint facetime is often that the audio [TS]

  will start coming out and makes it [TS]

  impossible to even communicate about the [TS]

  bed video and the video like will have [TS]

  higher overall quality when it's working [TS]

  but when my parents terrible internet [TS]

  connection starts droppings and becomes [TS]

  like a slideshow I wish it would just [TS]

  degraded to a much uglier algorithm or I [TS]

  mean facetime will do this time we'll [TS]

  turn off the the video entirely to go to [TS]

  the audio but in practice it does not do [TS]

  that soon enough it very often struggles [TS]

  with stuttering audio and I wish I could [TS]

  just like just you know dropped entirely [TS]

  very often facetime calls have been [TS]

  derailed by saying just call the phone [TS]

  because we know the phone will work and [TS]

  i'll be able to hear your words so I'm [TS]

  gonna have you know the only thing I've [TS]

  used video from google is you know [TS]

  YouTube which of course is only cool [TS]

  back position and google hangouts and [TS]

  I've always been impressed by the [TS]

  performance under pretty you know dire [TS]

  conditions of so many people all across [TS]

  the country doing one big giant multi [TS]

  video conference call think so I if this [TS]

  do all things works and because it's [TS]

  cross-platform it may end up being an [TS]

  easier like I will see evidence of being [TS]

  like my go-to like I probably still do [TS]

  face time with my parents because that's [TS]

  just what they're used to but if it's [TS]

  but a facetime is messing up i will have [TS]

  this app install them make sure they [TS]

  have it installed two and i'll say [TS]

  switch to this happened we'll just do a [TS]

  be testing out facetime is dying because [TS]

  of your internet weather over there [TS]

  trying to sell their app that i showed [TS]

  you and hopefully it'll be simple enough [TS]

  that they can figure it out and it will [TS]

  you know be connected up and i was like [TS]

  i'm i'm optimistic about this is being a [TS]

  decent product and like marco was [TS]

  ridiculing apple for the open sent like [TS]

  this you know Apple [TS]

  could have done this but hasn't that how [TS]

  a spacetime gotten appreciably better [TS]

  since it was rolled out i'm sure it has [TS]

  i'm sure it's got more reliable the [TS]

  algorithm has gotten better and the [TS]

  quality is probably better at the top [TS]

  and then Google's things going to be but [TS]

  that doesn't matter what I can hear [TS]

  every fifth word that my parents are [TS]

  saying yeah and also facetime notably [TS]

  does not support more than two people on [TS]

  a call yet and I i hope we get that at [TS]

  some point is like you know I chat had [TS]

  that before [TS]

  facetime was a thing like we had that 10 [TS]

  years ago so I know it's more [TS]

  challenging on mobile on cell [TS]

  connections and everything it is not an [TS]

  easy problem by any means but I do hope [TS]

  we get there but these duo i have been [TS]

  mean it duo itself and implies to I [TS]

  don't think that duo is going to be more [TS]

  than one person is it hurt more than two [TS]

  people i should say look I mean if [TS]

  nobody actually has like more than one [TS]

  of the person with an android phone [TS]

  right are you talking about their more [TS]

  than fifty percent of the market [TS]

  the other thing is supposedly ete [TS]

  encrypted always enterprise to [TS]

  enterprise [TS]

  yeah that one's easy to encrypted always [TS]

  there was just that end-to-end [TS]

  encryption they didn't give a [TS]

  qualification so I'm sure this means [TS]

  always mostly because at this point I [TS]

  wouldn't say this is going to be true [TS]

  forever but at this point there is no [TS]

  Googlebot equivalent need to see every [TS]

  frame your video do something [TS]

  intelligent but if there were sufficient [TS]

  bandwidth both in terms of cpu and you [TS]

  know and and data throughput throughput [TS]

  I'm sure like under on unlimited [TS]

  conditions in a local environment google [TS]

  would love to have an intelligent agent [TS]

  watching every frame for video and doing [TS]

  intelligent things based on it because [TS]

  you know in this still image recognition [TS]

  is you can do that on video and then [TS]

  video recognition where you're actually [TS]

  not just looking at individual frames [TS]

  with the actual video and having [TS]

  something realize where you are what [TS]

  you're talking about being able to do [TS]

  hand gestures seeing your facial [TS]

  expressions and then Google you know [TS]

  with need to see your video and on local [TS]

  device maybe maybe you could still be in [TS]

  description but again there's probably [TS]

  only is almost certainly a server [TS]

  component to this and so I don't know [TS]

  how long and 10 encryption and [TS]

  decryption on [TS]

  you only last until google realizes that [TS]

  they can do intelligent helpful things [TS]

  by looking at your video so that's [TS]

  probably still a ways off because of [TS]

  spam with concerns and everything else [TS]

  but i wouldn't expect it to be always [TS]

  fair enough [TS]

  alright so update Stan droid yeah we're [TS]

  getting towards the end of it I was [TS]

  getting towards the end of this section [TS]

  I had to skim some of this but I i tried [TS]

  to put some highlights in your answer [TS]

  these things and i'm missing Vulcan [TS]

  Vulcan was kind of depressing because I [TS]

  mean Apple Apple has been so far ahead [TS]

  with the graphics performance on their [TS]

  devices for so long especially compared [TS]

  to like the average of Android versus [TS]

  just like the high-end Android and then [TS]

  Apple you know that OpenGL ES and they [TS]

  did the metal thing which is a lower [TS]

  level thing and that was great and I i [TS]

  I'm sure it's good for iOS game [TS]

  developers and everything but on the [TS]

  other side of the coin is the sort of [TS]

  open standard opengl khronos group thing [TS]

  which is a Vulcan which is based on [TS]

  mantle from AMD and a bunch of other [TS]

  stuff and it's very much like metal and [TS]

  you know these all these ideas have been [TS]

  floating around the greatest community [TS]

  for a while I don't like to see Apple as [TS]

  the sky like the facetime situation oh [TS]

  we've got our own thing [TS]

  the only good thing about it is that [TS]

  Apple's own thing is actually pretty [TS]

  influential because Apple a lot of game [TS]

  shop on Apple's platforms and they make [TS]

  a lot of money so maybe they could [TS]

  quote-unquote win just because most of [TS]

  the money and game development is [TS]

  happening on iOS that would really [TS]

  rather see Apple supporting the industry [TS]

  standard like let's get everybody [TS]

  working together to make the low-level [TS]

  graphics API that everybody's going to [TS]

  use one as opposed to apple having its [TS]

  own but having its own is probably kind [TS]

  of a competitive advantage and they are [TS]

  so big they can probably get away with [TS]

  it but it just depresses me a little bit [TS]

  fair enough let's see what else they did [TS]

  a lot with just-in-time compilation [TS]

  which is kind of exciting and even just [TS]

  in time [TS]

  installation which is weird [TS]

  well I that the instant apps think [TS]

  that's like about the just-in-time [TS]

  compilation is with the flip side where [TS]

  I start to feel bad for google that they [TS]

  still dealing with the jiggle ago will [TS]

  will like profile the code [TS]

  and write the optimized version of the [TS]

  flash to make a faster launches time and [TS]

  I know they have pre-compiled apps to [TS]

  but just that technical decision to go [TS]

  with the initially a weird job ish [TS]

  language and just-in-time compilation [TS]

  and everything like they're still kind [TS]

  of paying the price of like having to [TS]

  having to try to match apple which is [TS]

  shipping pre-compiled band binary is [TS]

  right bring about pre optimized binaries [TS]

  that are you know they're smaller than [TS]

  they don't have to have the the yeah but [TS]

  they're doing playing catch-up here and [TS]

  maybe long-term they're still doing the [TS]

  right thing and maybe still in [TS]

  advancement in the current stage there's [TS]

  lots of weird compromises their digging [TS]

  out from underneath and so there's a [TS]

  whole section of the slides that are [TS]

  just things that Apple is just not [TS]

  concerned about because they don't have [TS]

  these problems because they don't have a [TS]

  jet [TS]

  indeed they have what multitasking [TS]

  yeah that was like that was the part [TS]

  where it's like all right you did pretty [TS]

  much what Apple did which is not that [TS]

  imaginative when Apple did it's not that [TS]

  imaginative when you did it [TS]

  which part did you think was novel I [TS]

  mean split-screen picture-in-picture [TS]

  it's like literally like word-for-word [TS]

  the the you know iOS ipad much as they [TS]

  did on the phone which i think is [TS]

  something that Apple didn't do like that [TS]

  they would disable them what to do [TS]

  splitscreen on that the mini does that [TS]

  yep they don't know what the limits of [TS]

  that features anyway on the iphone no [TS]

  but they showed it on the phone [TS]

  basically top/bottom split instead of [TS]

  from the side [TS]

  yeah well as you wouldn't want like two [TS]

  inch wide absolutely side-by-side that [TS]

  would be awkward [TS]

  yeah well I don't know depends on the [TS]

  app but uh you can scroll the text [TS]

  sideways it was and then they had like [TS]

  the double tap to switch back really [TS]

  fast out here is here is the thing that [TS]

  killed Amos presentation I can't [TS]

  understand why they did it they showed [TS]

  their app switcher which looks like all [TS]

  apps which is like these days a bunch of [TS]

  little cards look like webos for many [TS]

  years ago showing all your applications [TS]

  and I said by popular demand they added [TS]

  a clear all button and that is [TS]

  essentially recognizing the fact that [TS]

  lots of people either based on [TS]

  superstition or bed reasoning related to [TS]

  the iOS multitasker or on the Android [TS]

  side probably both of those as well but [TS]

  also on both sides based on just the [TS]

  idea that some people want to clean up [TS]

  messes [TS]

  that having a bunch of courting quote [TS]

  open application is visual clutter right [TS]

  and they just want to clear out so that [TS]

  the new version and the two things one [TS]

  limited to only seven so it's just they [TS]

  go off the end you know they don't they [TS]

  just don't show them which is kind of [TS]

  nice for reducing clutter but I hope [TS]

  that's adjustable somewhere probably is [TS]

  because what if you want to see more [TS]

  than seven and the second thing is the [TS]

  clear all button is like sometimes I [TS]

  just want to clean everything up [TS]

  i mean i-i don't think I mentioned this [TS]

  before I've seen my son do it i saw him [TS]

  using his iphone everything goes into [TS]

  the app switcher and flip the [TS]

  applications up like whoa was like where [TS]

  did you learn this who tipped like it's [TS]

  just they pick it up on the streets and [TS]

  kind of like force quitting application [TS]

  so i had to explain to him you know the [TS]

  whole the we don't talk about that much [TS]

  on the show but the angle that i gave [TS]

  them I didn't explain them about [TS]

  multitasking suspended processes and [TS]

  everything I said look but when you do [TS]

  that it's gonna actually exit the [TS]

  program it's going to the United know if [TS]

  I said force quit or whatever which [TS]

  means the next time you launch it will [TS]

  probably be two and a half minutes from [TS]

  now it has to launch from a completely [TS]

  fresh state whereas before it was just [TS]

  spend it in memory ready to go the next [TS]

  time you used it so you think your [TS]

  quote-unquote saving battery which is [TS]

  excuse he gave me but you're probably [TS]

  not because launching from a fresh state [TS]

  takes more energy than unsuspecting the [TS]

  application soldiers don't worry about [TS]

  and don't leave them but the other [TS]

  angles in which you have no argument [TS]

  yeah it's like I just don't like seeing [TS]

  their well so Android users apparently [TS]

  have the exact same problems the game [TS]

  big button that says clear all what I [TS]

  hope the clear all button does is remove [TS]

  the graphics but do nothing else [TS]

  yeah suspended because that's what [TS]

  people want they just don't want to see [TS]

  the squares there that's what Apple [TS]

  should do it i mean that have to add a [TS]

  new feature for actual force quit but I [TS]

  wish flicking up the squares didn't do [TS]

  anything except for remove them from the [TS]

  multitasking switcher but everything [TS]

  else take this and they just ate [TS]

  suspended and imagine a normal way but [TS]

  boy this this ailment this is like that [TS]

  the the zapping the pier am of the [TS]

  mobile age or rebuilding the desktop and [TS]

  how far back you can go and repairing [TS]

  permissions for building that's older [TS]

  like these little solutions but this one [TS]

  I think there's a foundation that people [TS]

  just don't like to see the mess so I [TS]

  hundred is giving them a clear all [TS]

  button that lead to have like a somewhat [TS]

  like it like a g8 summit for like people [TS]

  who make computer devices to talk about [TS]

  mythology is related to the multi-tap [TS]

  switcher it's not there are a lot of [TS]

  them [TS]

  yeah I mean and I mean the sad part with [TS]

  the apple one is like it would be nice [TS]

  if we didn't have to do that and if they [TS]

  remove the ability to this so that [TS]

  people could stop doing this stupid [TS]

  thing but unfortunately it does [TS]

  occasionally soft published yet you [TS]

  yummy way to force quit things like you [TS]

  did badly behaved you do need a way to [TS]

  do that so you have two you can't take [TS]

  that away and just I don't worry we'll [TS]

  manage all for you but the obsessive [TS]

  need to do it every time I've seen my [TS]

  son do i watch them it's just he just [TS]

  like it's just part of his routine it's [TS]

  like there's no point in that you know [TS]

  especially because you just convince [TS]

  yourself that if i don't do this [TS]

  something bad will happen like oh I just [TS]

  wish I just wish that it just it just [TS]

  move the graphics but i think i think [TS]

  that's like ninety percent of it people [TS]

  just don't want to see the squares they [TS]

  don't want to see the little rectangles [TS]

  they want they want to feel like [TS]

  everything is a clean slate so fun get [TS]

  rid of the rectangle right but then you [TS]

  know when the facebook app starts going [TS]

  crazy you do need some way to actually [TS]

  kill it or sometimes it applications get [TS]

  all screwed up which happens as well [TS]

  like perfectly well-behaved applications [TS]

  with this a bug in them all of a sudden [TS]

  and every time you bring them to the [TS]

  front they're just not working that [TS]

  happens and you need a way to get rid of [TS]

  them get rid of them [TS]

  I know it's a difficult situation all [TS]

  right I got it [TS]

  this is how absolutely solve all the [TS]

  problems you get one free clear all a [TS]

  day and then if you want you are more [TS]

  than a purchase yeah you can you can buy [TS]

  one for a dollar each [TS]

  if you want more after that that their [TS]

  growth issue with iphone revenue is [TS]

  solved [TS]

  yeah if it's an its article is it's an [TS]

  energy-based mechanic where you can you [TS]

  exhaust your energy have to do that [TS]

  purchase to get more fit but clear all I [TS]

  would I don't know I wasn't there in the [TS]

  crowd i wonder if that was like a big [TS]

  applause feeder but they did say by [TS]

  popular demand I someone someone who [TS]

  works at Google please tell me that [TS]

  doesn't actually do anything except [TS]

  remove the graphics it'll make me so [TS]

  much happier right we should quickly [TS]

  talk about instant apps at this is a [TS]

  really big hairy technical mess that [TS]

  might end up being really good has a lot [TS]

  of potential risks a lot of potential [TS]

  ramifications good and bad [TS]

  and I we don't really know enough about [TS]

  it yet [TS]

  I don't think to really to really say [TS]

  like whether this is going to work with [TS]

  the risks totally are [TS]

  but what about security risks everything [TS]

  on hold on hold on let me let me kind of [TS]

  explain what's going on here so yeah [TS]

  explain sheeting summarizes some are [TS]

  certain chief so it makes it longer what [TS]

  you're doing it because you don't [TS]

  provide haha the idea within snaps is [TS]

  you're in a situation where you really [TS]

  want to consume some content that is [TS]

  associated with a nap so they gave an [TS]

  example of wanting to watch [TS]

  buzzfeedvideo they gave an example of [TS]

  walking up to an nfc-enabled parking [TS]

  meter maid is critically it's you want [TS]

  you want to do something with with an [TS]

  app that you don't have installed sorry [TS]

  yes yes so you don't have this installed [TS]

  and you walk up this parking meter and [TS]

  the parking meter has some NFC ID that [TS]

  some way somehow google and android know [TS]

  are associated with such-and-such [TS]

  happening in the Play Store so what-what [TS]

  instant apps will do is it will [TS]

  behind-the-scenes instantly download the [TS]

  subset of the app that you need to [TS]

  perform the particular function you're [TS]

  trying to do be that watch the [TS]

  buzzfeedvideo or pay for parking or what [TS]

  have you and it will do that and loaded [TS]

  instantly or thereabouts-- so it's [TS]

  available to you walk up to the parking [TS]

  meter you swipe your phone near it the [TS]

  NFC thing kicks in [TS]

  it will download the you know parking [TS]

  meter app you can put money into it you [TS]

  can use your android pay and walk away [TS]

  and everything is good and you haven't [TS]

  downloaded the entire app you've just [TS]

  downloaded the pieces i'm assuming the [TS]

  intense in the Android system that on [TS]

  that are required for the operations are [TS]

  trying to perform at first glance it [TS]

  sounds kind of good because i don't like [TS]

  downloading apps just for single-use [TS]

  events like this and actually i have in [TS]

  the past downloaded a parking meter app [TS]

  in the DC area specifically to park in [TS]

  DC and then I've never used since and so [TS]

  in theory this sounds kind of good but [TS]

  what happens then when I walk away from [TS]

  the meter [TS]

  I didn't pay close attention to what the [TS]

  the brand of meter was or what app I [TS]

  just got quietly installed for me and I [TS]

  need to add time like what do i do then [TS]

  does it say oh you've just installed the [TS]

  park minder app does it allow you to [TS]

  download the park binder app from the [TS]

  play store because you've instant [TS]

  downloaded it recently like how does [TS]

  that all work i'm actually less [TS]

  concerned about android apps splitting [TS]

  themselves up into pieces because they [TS]

  tend to be from what I gather from our [TS]

  Android developers a lot more modular [TS]

  but this whole like user interaction i [TS]

  think they leaves a lot of questions in [TS]

  my mind [TS]

  well I mean they put the machine [TS]

  learning in the context thing like that [TS]

  they said oh and you can add more time [TS]

  later I thought the same thing like how [TS]

  do I know what how to add time but [TS]

  contextually basic machine learning [TS]

  stuff that they've already got it knows [TS]

  what you're talking about because you [TS]

  just did did a parking meter thing and [TS]

  so if you just yell into your phone or [TS]

  type in to your Google assistant app add [TS]

  another minute to the meter it should [TS]

  know what the heck you're talking about [TS]

  from context and I think it can already [TS]

  do that but i think the idea is that [TS]

  from this kind of like getting more into [TS]

  the open docx model from a phone users [TS]

  perspective for certain classes of [TS]

  things and perhaps a very large class of [TS]

  things they don't care so much about [TS]

  your app your app is important to you is [TS]

  the app developer they just want to [TS]

  accomplish something in the world but [TS]

  it's paying for parking meter or buying [TS]

  a movie ticket or you know making a [TS]

  reservation at a restaurant there in [TS]

  front of and they just want to [TS]

  accomplish that task they don't want to [TS]

  find the app that need to download do i [TS]

  found myself in a position where I want [TS]

  to do something and I've heard that you [TS]

  can do something with this store that I [TS]

  know like what is their app called or [TS]

  what was the name of that app that I [TS]

  heard or like just based on other [TS]

  contextual clues and having an open API [TS]

  to say from the users perspective the [TS]

  phone will just do this something that [TS]

  phone couldn't do before it's something [TS]

  they can do and fairly quickly without [TS]

  them having to search the appstore for [TS]

  an app and download I think that's a [TS]

  good user experience in something that [TS]

  can be shooting for many problems exist [TS]

  in it security is probably one of the [TS]

  big ones but like you said like is just [TS]

  spamming my phone with apps that are [TS]

  installing I walked past parking meters [TS]

  or even if I initiated how do I keep [TS]

  track of all [TS]

  crap that's getting installed like [TS]

  there's a potential downside for this to [TS]

  be abused but on the other hand is a [TS]

  very apple-like feature an apple is the [TS]

  company that dreamed up open docx of [TS]

  like I'm not so concerned with your [TS]

  application i'm concerned with my task [TS]

  and it's like computers of the future [TS]

  like how does that thing all of a sudden [TS]

  know how to work with this thing it's [TS]

  like magic really like oh I've never [TS]

  used this thing before in my life but it [TS]

  has android integration I don't have to [TS]

  do anything all of a sudden my phone can [TS]

  do this thing that it couldn't do before [TS]

  and I think that's awesome i'm not [TS]

  entirely sure google is the company to [TS]

  pull that off based on the amount of [TS]

  weird things that go on in the Android [TS]

  ecosystem but I i endorse the idea that [TS]

  like like chrome books for example in [TS]

  like the hole through your computer like [TS]

  it doesn't matter because everything in [TS]

  the cloud [TS]

  I like the idea I like it's a goal I [TS]

  don't know how close we are gonna get [TS]

  through with this particular [TS]

  implementation but we'll see anything [TS]

  else on Android and they didn't actually [TS]

  announced the name their soliciting [TS]

  names they made the joke about don't [TS]

  call it something makes something face [TS]

  but anything else on Android and I mean [TS]

  I think it's gonna be interesting to see [TS]

  how much of this stuff you know plays [TS]

  out and develops none of us use android [TS]

  really ever so I think it's funny that [TS]

  we just spent two hours talking about [TS]

  this stuff but hey you know it's it's [TS]

  industry news i think it's also [TS]

  interesting to see you know a lot of the [TS]

  commentary so far has been that this is [TS]

  a lot of like underwhelming stuff a lot [TS]

  of it is kind of just matching Apple [TS]

  features or giving their response to [TS]

  apple features and you know that's just [TS]

  how the industry goes you know that it [TS]

  there are some years where Apple borrows [TS]

  heavily from google features and there [TS]

  are some here for the reverse happens [TS]

  and this is a very mature market of like [TS]

  these advanced smartphone OS is where I [TS]

  don't think we can really expect changes [TS]

  that are on a much bigger scale than [TS]

  this most years because it just doesn't [TS]

  know we're to the point where this stuff [TS]

  is mature and the low-hanging fruit is [TS]

  often picked and and is that really what [TS]

  you think after seeing this impression [TS]

  like Oh low hanging fruit they're doing [TS]

  kind of similar things we shouldn't [TS]

  expect big changes that was not my [TS]

  impression i got this all I mean like at [TS]

  the OS level like these kind like you [TS]

  know that the stuff they're doing with [TS]

  with like data services and machine [TS]

  learning ding ding is like you know that [TS]

  that is where the advancements happening [TS]

  for google now you don't think in snaps [TS]

  is like having implementation was [TS]

  Bruno's and by the way this implication [TS]

  work our way back to jelly bean which is [TS]

  another kind of sad part of the [TS]

  presentation was like oh look good we [TS]

  are about backward compatibility and now [TS]

  it's because you can't move your [TS]

  installed base to your most recent ok [TS]

  but anyway um I think that is an [TS]

  admirable and interesting goal that no [TS]

  one else is even touching like that is [TS]

  where have you seen something like that [TS]

  before I think it's an awesome idea and [TS]

  there are the first big player to say [TS]

  it's a thing and you can try to do it [TS]

  then you know lots of caveat about it [TS]

  but that's you know opendocument working [TS]

  maybe this won't work either but from a [TS]

  user perspective i think it is [TS]

  significant [TS]

  I guess again that i would call that in [TS]

  OS feature like that'sthat's you know [TS]

  what else is like launching and [TS]

  installing launching and running apps [TS]

  that's that's significant [TS]

  I don't know that it's potentially so [TS]

  problematic like from just like a [TS]

  security and technical perspective like [TS]

  nothing it can't be done but just [TS]

  thought like it's going to come with [TS]

  yeah yeah it's gonna be hard to do it [TS]

  well and correctly and safely at and it [TS]

  depends on supports like Apple pay would [TS]

  be crap if I couldn't use it anywhere [TS]

  but you know it and it is that like the [TS]

  technology and the idea behind applebees [TS]

  could be great but if I can use it any [TS]

  of the stores that would be a total [TS]

  failure so there is the the [TS]

  infrastructure project which is weird [TS]

  because you're like oh androids the [TS]

  majority they should be great on the [TS]

  infrastructure but like they're the [TS]

  majority but they're not always where [TS]

  the money is and that kind of tends to [TS]

  lead with two what you know so this is [TS]

  let's put it this way [TS]

  well this is an idea that I think Apple [TS]

  should share and i think my overwhelming [TS]

  impression of this entire presentation [TS]

  is so how incredibly far behind apple is [TS]

  in so many of these areas and how I [TS]

  don't see any hope of them catching up [TS]

  like all the things that Google [TS]

  emphasize all their strength [TS]

  machine-learning server-side stop all [TS]

  that I just look at that and I feel like [TS]

  it was an apple-like we can't do that [TS]

  we're terrible this stuff we're so far [TS]

  behind them i can't even see them in the [TS]

  distance anymore they're this tiny speck [TS]

  like they apples just trying to take its [TS]

  basic services and make them reliable [TS]

  and have some sort of infrastructure for [TS]

  doing things that Google is doing [TS]

  reliably like five years ago this all [TS]

  this stuff is not a glimmer anyone's I'd [TS]

  Apple they've got Syrian haven't been [TS]

  able to advance it i think is dancing / [TS]

  series grave like [TS]

  hi just if you're an apple fan like this [TS]

  makes me think about the good old days [TS]

  when applicable working together on the [TS]

  iphone how awesome would have been if [TS]

  they had like you know divide the labor [TS]

  is Apple you make the hardware in the US [TS]

  and we'll do the services and together [TS]

  we'll make the awesome platform in the [TS]

  future I didn't happen unfortunately but [TS]

  now we have the situation where Google [TS]

  is just so much better it's so many [TS]

  things than apple and that it doesn't [TS]

  seem like apples getting better not get [TS]

  not getting better fast enough or [TS]

  something i'm not getting better at all [TS]

  at and it's just it depresses me [TS]

  I guess on the bright side as long as [TS]

  apple continues to make a good quality [TS]

  hardware and a pretty good OS that sells [TS]

  a lot of copies will continue to be [TS]

  forced to make like it's do application [TS]

  for iOS but the other features again [TS]

  snaps we have to wait for Apple to copy [TS]

  and all the machine learning stuff i [TS]

  don't have any real hope of Apple ever [TS]

  copying if their past history is any [TS]

  judge so boy this i think this was it's [TS]

  not like a giant victory of google also [TS]

  apple because again there's things that [TS]

  Apple does better as well and each one [TS]

  is obviously going to emphasize the area [TS]

  where they're stronger but this I feel [TS]

  like at Google is accelerating away from [TS]

  Apple not just barely staying ahead in [TS]

  the areas that has always been ahead [TS]

  yeah I think that's really stupid one of [TS]

  the quick point I wanted to make and [TS]

  then we should probably wrap is they [TS]

  talk about android wear to a couple of [TS]

  quick thoughts about that number one I [TS]

  understand why the watch i carry on my [TS]

  wrist today and everyday is a rounded [TS]

  rect but man that circles looks so much [TS]

  better and number two they had a couple [TS]

  of different means of input including [TS]

  like a swype keyboard which strikes me [TS]

  is freaking terrible but they also had [TS]

  handwriting where as you write it [TS]

  Scrolls to the left automatically which [TS]

  i think i've seen in like one note or [TS]

  something like that in years past but it [TS]

  seemed like an incredibly clever way to [TS]

  handle text input on a watch because you [TS]

  can put you know about a character on [TS]

  the screen at a time and if it's [TS]

  scrolling automatically you know under [TS]

  your finger it looked at a glance like [TS]

  it worked really really well and I'm [TS]

  very curious to hear if that is [TS]

  implemented well and if it is then I [TS]

  wanted on my watch [TS]

  I i still believe that anytime you're [TS]

  doing text input on my watch you've lost [TS]

  i agree but in a pinch it would be nice [TS]

  to not have to use Siri just use [TS]

  graffiti yeah let's draw the same draw [TS]

  the same letter or the same spot you [TS]

  don't need to scroll just keep doing the [TS]

  same letter on the watch face yep and [TS]

  the android wear what has going for it [TS]

  is they're trying over the head right [TS]

  well honestly I mean that the way I'm [TS]

  not gonna get too far into this next [TS]

  craft time but honestly i-i think you [TS]

  know case you mention like man round [TS]

  look so good [TS]

  android wear can do different shapes an [TS]

  apple can because the design of the [TS]

  platform from the beginning was in a [TS]

  very android way to to have a scalable [TS]

  system that could apply to you know any [TS]

  large set of different device sizes and [TS]

  shapes and characteristics that i think [TS]

  ultimately will prove to be the better [TS]

  way for wearables to be designed for [TS]

  wearable platform to be designed I i [TS]

  don't think the Apple the current Apple [TS]

  watch model of we're just going to make [TS]

  one type of watch in one shape with one [TS]

  configuration basically you know like [TS]

  you know they yeah they allow all the [TS]

  different bands and there's two [TS]

  different sizes of the same shape but [TS]

  it's basically one configuration of the [TS]

  watch and I I think ultimately the [TS]

  android version of you can have all [TS]

  sorts of different sizes and shapes and [TS]

  different capabilities [TS]

  you know I think that will ultimately [TS]

  prove correct for wearables where it [TS]

  didn't really necessarily prove correct [TS]

  for phones but because most people just [TS]

  want a rectangle phone with decent I [TS]

  screen that has a whole bunch of you [TS]

  know hardware in it and stuff but I [TS]

  think watches and wearables it'll prove [TS]

  the opposite direction and then I I [TS]

  wonder and i'll be very curious to see [TS]

  if apple takes the watch in that kind of [TS]

  direction because honestly I don't think [TS]

  they are headed that direction and I get [TS]

  that worries me but we will see [TS]

  alrighty thanks a lot 23 sponsors this [TS]

  week ring automatic and pingdom and we [TS]

  will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental John didn't [TS]

  any research Marco in kc wouldn't let [TS]

  him [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find the show know today p [TS]

  dot and if your twitter follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

  syracuse it's [TS]

  what [TS]

  somebody who shall remain nameless and [TS]

  who is too embarrassed to be named on [TS]

  this particular podcast tells me tells [TS]

  us our tells me specifically that I'm [TS]

  wrong about quitting iOS and he says [TS]

  it's his only salvation salvation from [TS]

  what from my assuming is battery [TS]

  draining places you want a video it's [TS]

  completely replicable and I thought I [TS]

  told him and in the track here is that I [TS]

  thought covered all bases [TS]

  yes sometimes isn't badly behaving app [TS]

  that you have to force quit [TS]

  sometimes an application is in a weird [TS]

  state that the only way you can get it [TS]

  to work again this force quitting it and [TS]

  some applications even when they're [TS]

  working perfectly [TS]

  you need to force quit right when you're [TS]

  done with them if you don't want them [TS]

  sucking your battery down true all true [TS]

  and yet i still say the reflexive habit [TS]

  of force quitting every single [TS]

  application every time you're done with [TS]

  it is crazy because you were draining [TS]

  your battery more because you're just [TS]

  launching them fresh the next time use [TS]

  them which is gonna be 30 seconds from [TS]

  now when you launch your twitter [TS]

  applicant crazy what I'm against is the [TS]

  reflexive routine force quitting of [TS]

  everything and that is the habit i see [TS]

  not the selected based on past [TS]

  experience that I have to fit force quit [TS]

  this application or drains my battery [TS]

  no that's not how people act most people [TS]

  it's just like lick lick lick lick you [TS]

  select use like use flick their double [TS]

  tapping the home but my crazy they [TS]

  cannot have a single they can only ever [TS]

  have one thing there when they're done [TS]

  with it it's like it so I can go back to [TS]

  springboard and see nothing [TS]

  it's you know it's and he's saying it's [TS]

  not about that about a possible launch I [TS]

  said sometimes you begin to a state [TS]

  where you bring them to the foreground [TS]

  they do nothing you have to force quit [TS]

  them to be able to launch them again [TS]

  I understand that and yes sometimes the [TS]

  OS get so host you gotta reboot but none [TS]

  of this argues for you must reflexively [TS]

  force quit every single application on [TS]

  your phone every time you use it and [TS]

  which again is exactly what i see that's [TS]

  what I see my son doing and trying to [TS]

  reason with him has not worked me still [TS]

  does it and it's an embarrassment [TS]

  ok to talk about me like any reason that [TS]

  any legitimate reason that you need to [TS]

  force quit all these apps all the time [TS]

  is probably either a bug or short coming [TS]

  in the operating system and so like yeah [TS]

  apple should fix those like it is [TS]

  totally valid today [TS]

  a say I need to I need the ability to [TS]

  force quit apps because sometimes they [TS]

  don't want right or whatever you are [TS]

  you're always gonna need the ability but [TS]

  just turn to be a hundred percent [TS]

  blanket habit is not good yeah i mean [TS]

  like the Apple watch it [TS]

  this is not a good example in general of [TS]

  how to design a responsive and stable [TS]

  software platform but the apple watch [TS]

  has a way to force quit apps without [TS]

  having app switcher most little know [TS]

  about it but you can do it it's you know [TS]

  we basically hit the sleep button yet [TS]

  again it's a look it up but yeah it it [TS]

  has a way to do that so like it is [TS]

  possible to still have some kind of [TS]

  gesture involving the the sleep/wake [TS]

  button and holding it down in certain [TS]

  certain way to have a force quit a [TS]

  method without having without putting it [TS]

  in the switcher and having that be the [TS]

  method but i don't know that i think the [TS]

  whole design of the most items which are [TS]

  itself needs a lot of help in a lot of [TS]

  ways not least of which is that [TS]

  conceptually everybody thinks all those [TS]

  are always running all the time and it's [TS]

  clear mount so that's that's one of the [TS]

  many problems with the current iOS app [TS]

  switcher that is ultimately a design [TS]

  problem non-technical one and the [TS]

  technical problem is when when you know [TS]

  that get stuck in that state where you [TS]

  have to kill it because it won't watch [TS]

  again like it will launch and you can [TS]

  you know run it and use it but it's [TS]

  useless or like you'll tap the icon and [TS]

  nothing will happen [TS]

  yeah and then like or just memory gets [TS]

  filled or corrupted as an OS bug that [TS]

  happens but none of that argues for [TS]

  hands-on time first of all you got a [TS]

  problem with your phone and it's it's at [TS]

  obviously otherwise probably has plenty [TS]

  of people use their phones and like I [TS]

  don't force quit anything ever [TS]

  essentially cuz i don't use the Facebook [TS]

  and bounds anything and i used to use [TS]

  iOS devices for years not for escorting [TS]

  everything so it's always in an endemic [TS]

  bug that that affects every single [TS]

  device this happened to yours who knows [TS]

  what's going on maybe have a problem [TS]

  don't accept it as the status quo as [TS]

  things working correctly and even when [TS]

  it you do have a problem like that like [TS]

  you can target but figure out which [TS]

  applications of the problem when do I [TS]

  need to do this because if you can't do [TS]

  that every if you just give up and say I [TS]

  have to do this all the time it's just [TS]

  the easiest system that works like I [TS]

  feel like a total failure of the product [TS]

  like it's not the users fault at that [TS]

  point it's just like the product is so [TS]

  frustrated the user that they can't [TS]

  that this is their tools for dealing [TS]

  with it which is blanket force quitting [TS]

  and they will never move away from it [TS]

  because it's the only thing that's [TS]

  giving them salvation on whatever weird [TS]

  things going on their phone or the apps [TS]

  that use and I feel like a papal saw you [TS]

  do that they would feel that they have [TS]

  failed you as a vendor of our products [TS]

  because they don't want you to use it [TS]

  that way and you shouldn't have to use [TS]

  that way and you feel like you do [TS]

  whether it's true or not whether you [TS]

  have to if you feel like you do [TS]

  that's a that's a break down there but [TS]

  anyway I would say if you if you're [TS]

  listening to this and you're effectively [TS]

  force quit all your apps consider trying [TS]

  to target your force quitting trying to [TS]

  target better and maybe if there's an [TS]

  application that's a particular problem [TS]

  get off your phone i know you can't tell [TS]

  people to get rid of facebook it's like [TS]

  telling people i don't know like to give [TS]

  up their firstborn but if that's not an [TS]

  option for you in the face gives the [TS]

  book is problematic one just trying [TS]

  reflexively force quitting facebook but [TS]

  don't say reflexively force quit your [TS]

  favorite twitter app because it's [TS]

  probably fine or maybe two rappers the [TS]

  problem i don't know i just i'm telling [TS]

  you is that it's not normal that you [TS]

  shouldn't have to do this and and I know [TS]

  many people who spend years and years [TS]

  using iOS devices across multiple [TS]

  hardware models and multiple OS miles [TS]

  with multiple apps who don't even know [TS]

  how to force quit and they're fine [TS]

  so it is not like a fact of life on iOS [TS]

  and people should not be doing it [TS]