Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - From Real AFM, this is Connected, episode 115.

00:00:08 ◼   ► It is brought to you this week by Braintree and MailRoute.

00:00:11 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett and I'm joined by my friend

00:00:15 ◼   ► and lead singer of The Senors, Federico Vittucci.

00:00:18 ◼   ► - Why do you do this?

00:00:19 ◼   ► Hi, Stephen, but it's unnecessary to--

00:00:22 ◼   ► - New listeners just have to discover

00:00:25 ◼   ► what that means on their own.

00:00:26 ◼   ► ♪ And I just know, I say I know ♪

00:00:29 ◼   ► ♪ There is nothing we can do ♪

00:00:32 ◼   ► ♪ We wrote our names on the tree ♪

00:00:35 ◼   ► ♪ And I say never, never, never ♪

00:00:38 ◼   ► - Oh God, well, okay.

00:00:40 ◼   ► - So Myke's not here.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Myke is at the OOL Conference in Ireland

00:00:46 ◼   ► with a bunch of our friends, and he is away this week.

00:00:50 ◼   ► - The OOL Conference is a metaphor for the afterlife,

00:00:52 ◼   ► so we miss you, Myke, and yeah.

00:00:55 ◼   ► - Get better soon.

00:00:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:01 ◼   ► So we spoke last week obviously about the Apple event.

00:01:03 ◼   ► There's some more of that to unpack this week.

00:01:06 ◼   ► But something that we didn't really get to talk about

00:01:08 ◼   ► because the event just overwhelmed the show

00:01:10 ◼   ► was the AirPod delay.

00:01:11 ◼   ► So the night before the event,

00:01:14 ◼   ► Apple made it known to several reporters

00:01:18 ◼   ► that the AirPods were gonna be delayed.

00:01:20 ◼   ► They weren't gonna be sold in October.

00:01:23 ◼   ► And I think the language was basically

00:01:24 ◼   ► we need a little more time to get it right.

00:01:26 ◼   ► and they're not ready yet.

00:01:28 ◼   ► And now, according to supply chain rumors,

00:01:31 ◼   ► which I mean take the whole thing with a grain of salt,

00:01:33 ◼   ► is saying that it may not be until January,

00:01:37 ◼   ► that they may miss the holiday season altogether,

00:01:40 ◼   ► which is not great.

00:01:42 ◼   ► I mean, the AirPods, I mean, it's expensive,

00:01:45 ◼   ► but it's in line with other wireless headphones' costs,

00:01:47 ◼   ► and I could see these things being a huge holiday gift

00:01:50 ◼   ► for people who have a spouse or a loved one

00:01:53 ◼   ► who is a big iPhone user

00:01:56 ◼   ► and may not buy this for themselves.

00:01:58 ◼   ► And it makes me sad because I wanted to buy it for myself.

00:02:01 ◼   ► And now we're all waiting.

00:02:03 ◼   ► Yeah, and in another plot twist, according to Apple Insider,

00:02:08 ◼   ► there's no way-- and I'm quoting--

00:02:10 ◼   ► that Apple is delaying the AirPods until 2017.

00:02:13 ◼   ► So they make it sound like they know something.

00:02:17 ◼   ► But again, we can't know for sure.

00:02:20 ◼   ► I think if there's a delay to next year,

00:02:22 ◼   ► it's going to be extremely odd.

00:02:24 ◼   ► because the AirPods are exactly the kind of gift that were perfect for the holidays, you

00:02:29 ◼   ► know. Just the right price point to buy a gift for a loved one, for example. But also,

00:02:35 ◼   ► I think we talked about this before, it's the statement that Apple was making with the

00:02:39 ◼   ► iPhone 7, that they believe that the future of wireless audio were something like the

00:02:46 ◼   ► AirPods, you know, moving away from the headphone jack, moving away from cables in general.

00:02:50 ◼   ► now to have that kind of delay from a September announcement to a January release, that would

00:02:55 ◼   ► be kind of strange, especially when you basically sell people on the promise of wireless audio

00:03:00 ◼   ► and then you wait four months. That'd be a little strange, I think.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Yeah, and you know, we have friends who have review units and Apple labeled those as like

00:03:08 ◼   ► beta hardware, which is super strange. But from what I've seen, from what I've talked

00:03:13 ◼   ► to people who have them, they seem fine. It's not like they're super janky or broken. So

00:03:18 ◼   ► So, I mean, who knows what's going on here?

00:03:21 ◼   ► You know, these things are complicated.

00:03:22 ◼   ► They have hardware and software,

00:03:24 ◼   ► and then there's software on the phone.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Like, there's a lot of moving parts,

00:03:27 ◼   ► and I would rather Apple wait,

00:03:30 ◼   ► and they be really good out of the box

00:03:32 ◼   ► than be sort of broken and not, you know, what Apple wants.

00:03:37 ◼   ► Because that's a really bad first experience, right?

00:03:38 ◼   ► And if you're, to your point,

00:03:39 ◼   ► if you are pitching people on the

00:03:42 ◼   ► future of wireless audio,

00:03:46 ◼   ► and your first entry into that world is not a good experience or sort of broken out of

00:03:51 ◼   ► the box, then you've sort of soured people on that vision, right? So I understand it,

00:03:57 ◼   ► but I am bummed and I think that the absence will only make my heart grow fonder for the

00:04:02 ◼   ► AirPods.

00:04:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I can't wait really for these things. I was thinking about this the other

00:04:08 ◼   ► day. I'm that kind of person who tends to fall asleep listening to podcasts or listening

00:04:14 ◼   ► into music and to not have a wire, you know, going to bed with the risk of being choked

00:04:19 ◼   ► by my own music. That'd be very nice. And I was surprised when I see that Apple was

00:04:26 ◼   ► delaying the product. But I guess it makes sense, like you said, if you're going to

00:04:29 ◼   ► make a, you know, this grand debut into the world of wireless audio, it's best if you

00:04:36 ◼   ► have a solid product without issues, whether it's hardware or whether it's software.

00:04:40 ◼   ► So I mean I get the reason. I also think it'd be kind of strange if Apple cannot figure

00:04:46 ◼   ► out a solution before January or before February, but I guess we'll see.

00:04:52 ◼   ► So up next, iOS 10.2 developer beta and then late last night the public beta has arrived.

00:05:00 ◼   ► It brings some new stuff. We have a link to Mac stories in the show notes, some new wallpaper,

00:05:07 ◼   ► a new iMessage effect, which I did not expect them to honestly ever change, but they added

00:05:12 ◼   ► a new one, which is fine. And 72 new emojis. So this brings Apple in line with the latest

00:05:20 ◼   ► Unicode release. And what's even more interesting to me is that they've also redesigned the

00:05:27 ◼   ► bulk of emoji that people use. What do you think about this new look?

00:05:31 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a major redesign actually. From what I've seen on Twitter, and Cable Sasser

00:05:36 ◼   ► from Panic has been very efficient at tweeting screenshot differences between the old emoji

00:05:43 ◼   ► and the new ones. I dig the new look. I think it's a combination of very artistic 3D/photo

00:05:53 ◼   ► realistic icons. Like, it makes me sort of nostalgic of the old Apple way of drawing

00:06:00 ◼   ► icons on the Mac. These are very detailed, very colorful, very realistic in a way emoji,

00:06:07 ◼   ► whether it's landscapes or food. I mean the food emoji are super, like they make me hungry.

00:06:13 ◼   ► And I think I love the style. They're definitely moving away from the cartoonish/2D effect

00:06:20 ◼   ► of the old emoji. But even if you just look at the comparisons between the old emoji and

00:06:24 ◼   ► the new ones. There's a considerable amount of detail that the new ones have that the

00:06:30 ◼   ► old ones didn't have. And it sort of makes sense if you consider the move from old screens

00:06:37 ◼   ► and small screens to this world of larger displays, retina displays, high resolution

00:06:43 ◼   ► screens everywhere. I think it makes more sense given the time, you know, that we're

00:06:48 ◼   ► in right now. I don't know, I've seen a lot of people saying, I don't think reemoji

00:06:54 ◼   ► should be more realistic, I don't think it makes a lot of sense. Personally I'm a fan,

00:06:58 ◼   ► I love the new look, I'm not sure, I mean, I think Apple is gonna tweak this before the

00:07:04 ◼   ► final release because when they did this last year, even on iOS 9 they did a bit of a redesign

00:07:10 ◼   ► of emoji, I think they kinda changed the glossy look to something else, and they changed the

00:07:16 ◼   ► style between the first beta of iOS 9.2 I think to the last beta. So there's still room

00:07:23 ◼   ► for improvements and optimizations but overall I think it's a solid new look for Emoji. I

00:07:28 ◼   ► think it's very fun. And you can see why they've done it right. You have them much bigger now

00:07:33 ◼   ► in messages and some of those old designs just didn't scale up very well and some of

00:07:37 ◼   ► them look kind of fuzzy even. So it was nice, it's a nice opportunity to do that. I'm with

00:07:44 ◼   ► you, I like the new look. I like that they are more detailed and I think they look really

00:07:49 ◼   ► nice on the retina displays where you can really see those details so thumbs up

00:07:56 ◼   ► for me and you can send bacon emoji to all your friends if you update to the

00:08:00 ◼   ► beta or I mean some really 10.2 would be out here in the next couple weeks

00:08:04 ◼   ► do you know anything else that 10.2 brings I mean the emoji were why people

00:08:09 ◼   ► will update right because it's what people want

00:08:12 ◼   ► I have a good one I'm not sure if it's a bug yet or if it's a feature but if

00:08:17 ◼   ► If it's a feature, I bring good news, Steven.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Because now the Notification Center/Search screen with widgets remembers your last viewed

00:08:28 ◼   ► screen.

00:08:30 ◼   ► So if you dismiss the, for example, Notification Center while you are viewing widgets, the

00:08:36 ◼   ► next time you slide down, you won't go to the notification list again.

00:08:40 ◼   ► You will be taken to the previous widget screen, which is super handy.

00:08:44 ◼   ► Control Center does that, right?

00:08:45 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:08:46 ◼   ► one, it remembers that when you go back in.

00:08:49 ◼   ► Yeah, and I never look at notifications and I realize now Myke is gonna go crazy

00:08:54 ◼   ► because I've seen Myke use his iPhone, he's constantly pulling down to view his

00:08:57 ◼   ► notifications and he's very upset about the changes to notifications in iOS 10.

00:09:02 ◼   ► We've talked about this before, but for someone like me I use widgets all the

00:09:07 ◼   ► time, especially the launcher and the workflow widgets and that extra swipe

00:09:12 ◼   ► always required to go from notifications to the other screen. If Apple is going to

00:09:17 ◼   ► change this in iOS 10.2, that's going to be super welcome. So fingers crossed it's

00:09:21 ◼   ► not a bug, it's a feature. For once.

00:09:23 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I would imagine they want that to be the same as control center. It really makes

00:09:29 ◼   ► sense, right, that if one place works this way, both places should work that way.

00:09:33 ◼   ► So I will put it in the feature column until proven otherwise, I guess.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Okay.

00:09:38 ◼   ► Alright, so we have a lot more to talk about, but first we're going to take a quick break

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00:10:42 ◼   ► Check it out at BraintreePayments.com/connected.

00:10:45 ◼   ► Once again, that's BraintreePayments.com/connected.

00:10:50 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Braintree for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:10:54 ◼   ► So Federico, you bought a new MacBook Pro.

00:10:56 ◼   ► Yes I did.

00:10:59 ◼   ► It's true, I bought a new Mac and it's got a touch bar.

00:11:02 ◼   ► No, no, not really. I didn't buy anything. Why am I even playing along with you? I don't

00:11:08 ◼   ► know.

00:11:09 ◼   ► I don't know. You really went for it there. No. You did not buy a new MacBook Pro.

00:11:13 ◼   ► I didn't buy anything, man.

00:11:14 ◼   ► You didn't buy anything. But I did. So we spoke last week about my very conflicted feelings

00:11:22 ◼   ► about what to purchase. As I shared last week, I recently picked up a refurbished 5K iMac

00:11:29 ◼   ► from Apple, which if you've never bought refurbished as a sidebar, totally the way

00:11:33 ◼   ► to go. Sometimes you have to wait to get what you want, but they warrant them like

00:11:37 ◼   ► news, a bunch of money off. It's a sweet option. You can even do in-store pickup

00:11:41 ◼   ► with them. So I had mine shipped to my Apple store and I went out there and got

00:11:44 ◼   ► it. So this iMac is what I'm talking to you right now on. This is now my main

00:11:48 ◼   ► machine in my studio and it's fast and it's powerful and it's gonna last me a

00:11:52 ◼   ► long time. And in doing this I have decided that my notebook is going to be

00:11:59 ◼   ► my secondary machine. So when I travel, when I work outside of the home, or if I need to

00:12:03 ◼   ► edit on the go, I still need a Mac. I can't be iMac and iPad, but the

00:12:08 ◼   ► MacBook Air or Pro, whatever it was going to be, will be a secondary machine. And after

00:12:14 ◼   ► the show did some more thinking on it and I ordered the 1499 MacBook Pro. So

00:12:20 ◼   ► So this is the one with two Thunderbolt 3 ports

00:12:23 ◼   ► that does not have a touch bar.

00:12:25 ◼   ► It's the only one of these new machines

00:12:26 ◼   ► that is currently shipping.

00:12:28 ◼   ► And I got it just bone stock, the 1499 model as it is.

00:12:33 ◼   ► And I have some initial thoughts on this.

00:12:36 ◼   ► And it is a complicated machine

00:12:39 ◼   ► with a bunch of complicated decisions that went into it.

00:12:42 ◼   ► But as someone who was really looking at,

00:12:45 ◼   ► I was really probably gonna buy the MacBook Air,

00:12:48 ◼   ► wanted something with a Retina display because I wanted something thin and light.

00:12:52 ◼   ► And under those parameters this machine is a big win. The screen is

00:12:58 ◼   ► excellent, it's got the the wide color gamut, it's really bright. It meets

00:13:06 ◼   ► that need of mine where I wanted something with a Retina display but as

00:13:10 ◼   ► thin and light as the MacBook Air. I did get it in space gray which looks awesome.

00:13:15 ◼   ► It still looks like a Mac but the dark look is something that I really like.

00:13:21 ◼   ► And because the bezels around the screen are so much smaller, it feels like a much smaller

00:13:26 ◼   ► machine.

00:13:27 ◼   ► Federico, do you remember when they went from the iPad 3, 2, 3, 4 design to the Air?

00:13:32 ◼   ► It was amazing how much smaller it felt.

00:13:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I like how you bring up the iPad so you can relate with me.

00:13:38 ◼   ► That's right.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Other than that, it's just me talking for an hour.

00:13:44 ◼   ► But it's that same, it's that exact same thing

00:13:46 ◼   ► where like I know the screen sizes are the same,

00:13:49 ◼   ► but it feels so much more compact.

00:13:52 ◼   ► It feels very dense.

00:13:54 ◼   ► But there are some downsides.

00:13:57 ◼   ► You know, this MacBook, none of them have MagSafe anymore.

00:14:01 ◼   ► USB-C is the charger now, and it sticks in there

00:14:05 ◼   ► like a USB port so the magnetic breakaway is gone.

00:14:09 ◼   ► MagSafe was so brilliant.

00:14:12 ◼   ► I don't know about you Federico, but for me,

00:14:16 ◼   ► I definitely have instances where MagSafe saved my computer.

00:14:21 ◼   ► It gets plugged in and the dog walks by

00:14:24 ◼   ► or a family member walks by, is not paying attention,

00:14:27 ◼   ► and yanks that cord right off the side of the laptop

00:14:29 ◼   ► and it stays safe and sound.

00:14:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's definitely one of the best features

00:14:35 ◼   ► about the Mac.

00:14:36 ◼   ► When I got my first MacBook, I remember the feeling

00:14:39 ◼   ► of having a charger that was so clever.

00:14:42 ◼   ► unlike any other PC notebook that I had in the past.

00:14:46 ◼   ► It was so genius and I mean I get it why people are sad about the MagSafe.

00:14:51 ◼   ► I saw that there's an adapter

00:14:54 ◼   ► made by Belkin maybe or Griffin? Griffin makes one.

00:14:57 ◼   ► Yeah that sort of turns the USB-C plug into a MagSafe like

00:15:02 ◼   ► magnetic charger that snaps into the MacBook. I do understand why people are

00:15:07 ◼   ► you know sad about leaving this feature behind.

00:15:10 ◼   ► definitely made the Mac, you know, a better machine because of that. Because, you know,

00:15:15 ◼   ► if you have a dog, if you have kids running around, it made it better. So yeah, sad.

00:15:21 ◼   ► Yeah, and USB-C port people in the chair are asking, it is snugly in there. Like it is

00:15:26 ◼   ► not something that if someone trips over this cable, the MacBook Pro is going to go in the

00:15:31 ◼   ► direction of the cable. It's not going to break away freely. But I mean, I'm bummed

00:15:37 ◼   ► buy it. I wish that they could have made it work. I mean clearly USB-C adding

00:15:43 ◼   ► charging is like a big benefit of the whole chipset so why not take advantage

00:15:47 ◼   ► of it but it is a bummer and something that I will miss. Because of that you

00:15:51 ◼   ► don't have the little you know status LED on the charger, either orange or

00:15:54 ◼   ► green so you can see your battery status. The power brick doesn't have the little

00:15:59 ◼   ► arms anymore because it's just like a big iPad charger basically and you plug a

00:16:03 ◼   ► USB-C cable into one end and then the same end goes into the laptop. There's

00:16:08 ◼   ► not like an integrated charger anymore with little wings to wrap it around.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Just something that's not as nice. The keyboard has been a big point of

00:16:18 ◼   ► conversation. You know Apple said it's the second generation butterfly

00:16:21 ◼   ► mechanism and it's designed to feel like it has more travel. So I have a

00:16:27 ◼   ► MacBook here. My wife has a first generation Retina MacBook that we

00:16:32 ◼   ► bought her and side by side with this new MacBook Pro it sure feels and it

00:16:38 ◼   ► sure looks like this keyboard has more travel. Now Apple has said to some people

00:16:45 ◼   ► including Jason that the travels the same and I actually read somewhere else

00:16:50 ◼   ► that Apple told them that there is more travel so I don't know if there's

00:16:52 ◼   ► actually more travel or not I can tell you in using it it feels like there's

00:16:56 ◼   ► more travel than the MacBook. Whether that's smoke and mirrors and some sort of

00:17:02 ◼   ► magic trick I don't know. It's not as good as the magic keyboard they sell for

00:17:08 ◼   ► the Mac. It's not really even as good as the smart keyboard they sell for the

00:17:12 ◼   ► iPad but it's closer to the MacBook. It's that shallow key style. It is

00:17:18 ◼   ► going to take some getting used to. It is going to take me learning not to type so

00:17:24 ◼   ► hard and like bottoming out the keys. It does make a wonderful sound when you

00:17:29 ◼   ► type on it's very clicky and clacky which I like but it's um it's something

00:17:33 ◼   ► that takes some some getting used to but funnily enough one thing that has

00:17:38 ◼   ► prepared me for this keyboard is typing on my iPad Pro with the smart keyboard

00:17:43 ◼   ► cover because I think it's so shallow I've gotten used to typing more soft you

00:17:48 ◼   ► know in a softer fashion so I'm not slamming my fingers into the base of the

00:17:52 ◼   ► keyboard and it'll take some time to get used to but I think I can get there. I

00:17:56 ◼   ► think I'm already adjusting to it after a couple of days but it's not as good as

00:18:01 ◼   ► what I think is Apple's standard right now of the the magic keyboard that

00:18:07 ◼   ► external bluetooth keyboard I think is still better. That makes me a little sad.

00:18:12 ◼   ► The big thing though right is the, the big thing today at least is the the port

00:18:19 ◼   ► situation on this thing. So as we talked about all the, and I'm gonna use huge

00:18:23 ◼   ► air quotes here, "legacy ports" because I really don't think USB-A is legacy, but we'll call it

00:18:28 ◼   ► legacy. They're all gone and it's USB-C and Thunderbolt 3. This computer has two

00:18:34 ◼   ► of them. The others have four ports which is nicer and really more than anything

00:18:39 ◼   ► it makes the Mac feel more like an iOS device. Now I can still adapt and dongle

00:18:48 ◼   ► my way to Elmas anything which we're going to talk about. But sort of in its default

00:18:52 ◼   ► state it's just it's just a like a machine that's kind of unto itself and we were talking

00:18:58 ◼   ► before we recorded when the iPad you know the run to the iPad when the rumor is really

00:19:04 ◼   ► strong and then afterwards you know there was a group of people saying this thing needs

00:19:08 ◼   ► USB port so you can put a jump drive in it. This thing needs an SD card slot so you can

00:19:14 ◼   ► import photos to it and Apple did end up shipping the camera connection kit so

00:19:18 ◼   ► you could they still sell it today so you could pull images in from an SD card

00:19:23 ◼   ► and import them into photos. I have one I use it actually several times a year

00:19:27 ◼   ► with my iPad if I just travel with my tablet and a camera it's really nice but

00:19:32 ◼   ► they didn't build that stuff in on the iPad and clearly the iPad has been fine

00:19:37 ◼   ► without it I mean I don't think you're pining for a USB port on your iPad Pro

00:19:41 ◼   ► are you? Not really, no. That's good. Never gonna get it. So that stuff's all gone here and there

00:19:52 ◼   ► was conversations today about should have Apple left an SD card slot should they have left a sort

00:19:59 ◼   ► of standard USB port on this machine and I feel very conflicted about that. I wrote about this

00:20:08 ◼   ► this morning, they'll be linking the show notes to my piece, where I understand and

00:20:14 ◼   ► kind of wish Apple had left at least the SD card slot on this machine. Because it's another

00:20:22 ◼   ► adapter that you do have to purchase and carry. Now that's not the end of the world, and it's

00:20:26 ◼   ► nothing new. If you had a Thunderbolt-equipped Mac, you were carrying a dongle for FireWire

00:20:31 ◼   ► or ethernet or VGA or DVI.

00:20:34 ◼   ► So in reality, I think I own a total of two additional

00:20:39 ◼   ► adapters than I used to.

00:20:41 ◼   ► Not a huge deal.

00:20:42 ◼   ► I spent $1500 on a computer.

00:20:44 ◼   ► Spending 150 bucks on dongles and adapters

00:20:46 ◼   ► is not the end of the world.

00:20:48 ◼   ► But it's something you have to deal with, right?

00:20:49 ◼   ► Because on the Mac, we still have the need

00:20:54 ◼   ► to plug a bunch of stuff in.

00:20:55 ◼   ► At least a lot of us do.

00:20:57 ◼   ► And I just keep coming back to the idea of,

00:21:00 ◼   ► should have Apple done something different? Clearly they were never going to do it.

00:21:04 ◼   ► I don't think that was ever on the table. But I think about it too in comparing it

00:21:09 ◼   ► to the iPad where the iPad has always been a wireless machine. The camera

00:21:15 ◼   ► connection kit uses an SD card but it still to this day only uses that to

00:21:21 ◼   ► import photos and video shot on a camera. If you have audio files on an SD card

00:21:27 ◼   ► So it's like when we travel with relay, I have a portable recorder that records audio

00:21:34 ◼   ► onto an SD card and I can, you know, stick it in my Mac and pull the WAV files off.

00:21:40 ◼   ► The camera connection kit doesn't offer me that.

00:21:42 ◼   ► There's no mechanism within iOS to pull files off of an SD card that aren't images and videos.

00:21:49 ◼   ► And that's really frustrating and I wish they would look at that.

00:21:52 ◼   ► But the iPad has had a healthy life and now, you know, six years into it without all that

00:21:59 ◼   ► stuff, right?

00:22:01 ◼   ► And the Mac is moving towards that in a way.

00:22:03 ◼   ► I just find that very interesting that you have platforms that Apple even today and every

00:22:10 ◼   ► feel similar said, you know, they're separate platforms are going to stay separate, but

00:22:13 ◼   ► that the Mac is inching closer to the iPad, at least in terms of like hardware philosophy.

00:22:20 ◼   ► And I'm just, I feel really, really conflicted about that.

00:22:23 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:22:24 ◼   ► I mean, you have a Mac still, you have a MacBook Air, and you only use it for podcasting, right?

00:22:30 ◼   ► Yes.

00:22:31 ◼   ► So you have a USB interface and a microphone cable and a microphone.

00:22:35 ◼   ► And so, you know, it's, it's that, that keeps coming back to my mind in this of like, how

00:22:43 ◼   ► many people are like me and I bought every adapter I could because I'm in situations

00:22:47 ◼   ► where I need that stuff.

00:22:48 ◼   ► But I think a lot of people aren't.

00:22:51 ◼   ► And I think a lot of people are like you and they have one or two things they really need

00:22:56 ◼   ► to do.

00:22:57 ◼   ► And so you could do, you know, USB C to A adapter or even just buy a different type

00:23:04 ◼   ► of USB cable for your interface and you would be okay.

00:23:08 ◼   ► Or you could, you know what I'm saying?

00:23:10 ◼   ► Like I feel like it's not a big deal to people who aren't nerds.

00:23:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like nerds are a very peculiar breed in the sense that I'm looking at people

00:23:23 ◼   ► on Twitter, right, these past few days, and the same people who generally praise Apple's

00:23:31 ◼   ► drive and push to move past old technologies, like the people who in the past praised Apple

00:23:38 ◼   ► for moving on from the floppy drive, from the serial port, from the VGA cables and that

00:23:45 ◼   ► kind of stuff, now are upset that HDMI is gone and USB A, whatever is the name, is replaced

00:23:54 ◼   ► by USB C. And they're sort of applying a double standard, because when it happens to

00:24:01 ◼   ► other people it's okay, but when it happens to them it's not. And I sort of don't get

00:24:06 ◼   ► the perspective because we can make the same argument that we're making today for people

00:24:11 ◼   ► who relied on floppy drives in the past, which is where I get to my question is how and when

00:24:17 ◼   ► do we draw the line and how do we understand when a port or a cable that Apple is getting

00:24:24 ◼   ► rid of is truly past its time or when is it too soon? This is what I want to understand

00:24:31 ◼   ► because otherwise we're just left with a bunch of people on Twitter saying Apple really made

00:24:37 ◼   ► a mistake this time but in the past it was okay and now it's not okay. So how do we decide?

00:24:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean that's sort of the crux of it, right? And I think where people are divided

00:24:50 ◼   ► on this is some people think that it's not a big deal because you can adapt and most

00:24:56 ◼   ► people don't use most of that stuff anyways, right? Or they use it so rarely that just

00:25:01 ◼   ► having a couple of adapters is not a huge deal.

00:25:05 ◼   ► And then there are other people who say,

00:25:06 ◼   ► "Look, USB-A has been around on the Mac since 1998,

00:25:09 ◼   ► "the first iMac ushered it in,"

00:25:11 ◼   ► which I know a thing or two about.

00:25:13 ◼   ► And it's the standard, right?

00:25:16 ◼   ► It's more of a standard than serial or SCSI or ADB ever were

00:25:21 ◼   ► 'cause USB is like truly universal.

00:25:24 ◼   ► I mean, you could buy anything with USB plug

00:25:26 ◼   ► on the end of it.

00:25:28 ◼   ► You can buy, I mean even my BB-8 little Star Wars toy robot I bought last year

00:25:33 ◼   ► charges over regular USB. It's everywhere.

00:25:36 ◼   ► And I think why I'm conflicted is because I don't know what side of that divide I stand on.

00:25:43 ◼   ► I think that yes, USB, especially USB, the standard regular USB plug, is universal

00:25:52 ◼   ► and it is painful to see Apple moving past that.

00:25:57 ◼   ► But at the same time, you come to that idea of like,

00:26:00 ◼   ► I don't really know how big of a deal it is to most people.

00:26:03 ◼   ► You know, when Apple introduced the original MacBook Air

00:26:06 ◼   ► in 2008, there was a slide, I love this image,

00:26:09 ◼   ► it's Steve Jobs standing in front of a slide

00:26:12 ◼   ► in this presentation, and it has all the things

00:26:16 ◼   ► that we used to use optical media for,

00:26:19 ◼   ► and now we don't need it.

00:26:20 ◼   ► So he has, you know, you don't need a DVD, you have iTunes.

00:26:23 ◼   ► And you don't need to burn a CD because you have the iPod,

00:26:26 ◼   ► and you don't need to install software

00:26:30 ◼   ► 'cause you can do that over the internet now.

00:26:32 ◼   ► And he was building the case that the original MacBook Air

00:26:35 ◼   ► losing the optical drive was not a big deal.

00:26:38 ◼   ► And people were worked up about that

00:26:39 ◼   ► and now I don't know the last time I put a DVD in anything.

00:26:44 ◼   ► And so we will get there.

00:26:47 ◼   ► Apple has an uncanny ability to see

00:26:52 ◼   ► where things are going and move in that direction.

00:26:55 ◼   ► and in moving that direction they make things happen, right?

00:26:57 ◼   ► Like it's two sides of one coin.

00:27:00 ◼   ► My gut says they may have been too early on this,

00:27:05 ◼   ► but I also am not surprised at all

00:27:09 ◼   ► that they didn't leave a single USB port on this

00:27:11 ◼   ► as like a bridge to the future.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Like that idea that they should have left one

00:27:17 ◼   ► or that you should have had some sort of legacy I/O,

00:27:20 ◼   ► that's generally not the way Apple works.

00:27:23 ◼   ► And in my post I talk about an example where that is how they worked.

00:27:27 ◼   ► When they brought the iMac design to the Power Mac, they left one legacy port on it for nine

00:27:33 ◼   ► months.

00:27:34 ◼   ► And then that ADB port went away and it was all USB and FireWire.

00:27:37 ◼   ► And so Apple's done it in the past, but it's not something that is super common.

00:27:49 ◼   ► I don't know what the answer is Federico.

00:27:50 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:27:51 ◼   ► why it's so like I closed my article saying I don't know what I think because

00:27:56 ◼   ► on one hand I like this MacBook Pro because it's thin and it's futuristic

00:28:00 ◼   ► and Thunderbolt 3 and USB C is crazy fast and awesome but at the same time I

00:28:08 ◼   ► have a whole bunch of stuff on my desk that I can't plug into it without a

00:28:11 ◼   ► adapter. You know, so I don't know. Yeah I just wonder if the problem here is

00:28:18 ◼   ► is that the people who have these needs

00:28:22 ◼   ► are the people with a voice on the internet.

00:28:25 ◼   ► So the people who have blogs, the people who talk to the press,

00:28:28 ◼   ► the people who have podcasts, are also the people who make software

00:28:32 ◼   ► and need a lot of power, are people who have a lot of external drives,

00:28:37 ◼   ► a lot of monitors, a lot of other devices, a lot of cables.

00:28:40 ◼   ► And so the opinions you read and the

00:28:44 ◼   ► thoughts you listen to generally come from people who are at the very

00:28:48 ◼   ► edge of what they need from a computer.

00:28:52 ◼   ► And now it's a totally fine argument. I totally get it. Like it's

00:28:57 ◼   ► maybe too early because USB, the standard plug is

00:29:01 ◼   ► anywhere. And I totally get it. But I also wonder

00:29:05 ◼   ► if

00:29:08 ◼   ► most people will notice. But then again, will most people buy the MacBook Pro?

00:29:12 ◼   ► Well, no. But it is the

00:29:17 ◼   ► the canary in the coal mine, right?

00:29:18 ◼   ► The MacBook is already here.

00:29:20 ◼   ► Like, that's the funny thing about this.

00:29:21 ◼   ► This is only in the conversation

00:29:23 ◼   ► because it happened on the Pro machine.

00:29:25 ◼   ► Like, when it's just the MacBook,

00:29:27 ◼   ► it's like, oh, that kind of stinks,

00:29:28 ◼   ► just don't buy the MacBook.

00:29:29 ◼   ► But when Apple updates the iMac and the Mac Pro,

00:29:34 ◼   ► and maybe the Mac Mini one day,

00:29:37 ◼   ► then this will be everywhere.

00:29:39 ◼   ► And, but I see what you're saying, right?

00:29:41 ◼   ► Like, I think about, like, my family members

00:29:43 ◼   ► or friends who don't own a podcast network,

00:29:47 ◼   ► they may plug their phone into their computer

00:29:50 ◼   ► a couple times a year.

00:29:51 ◼   ► Most people don't even do that.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Most people, I think one of the more common things

00:29:58 ◼   ► is maybe transferring stuff over USB

00:30:00 ◼   ► and then maybe you just need to get a new USB drive,

00:30:03 ◼   ► a single USB-C to USB-A adapter for that.

00:30:06 ◼   ► But I think for most people, most of the time,

00:30:09 ◼   ► it's probably at most an inconvenience.

00:30:14 ◼   ► And some people are gonna roll their eyes about it.

00:30:17 ◼   ► I mean, last night, so I have a Pixel XL review unit

00:30:21 ◼   ► from Verizon, I hung out with some friends last night,

00:30:24 ◼   ► I took it with me, 'cause one of them wanted to see it.

00:30:26 ◼   ► And so I kinda got passed around the group,

00:30:27 ◼   ► people were commenting, and two people,

00:30:30 ◼   ► independently of each other, who aren't nerds,

00:30:32 ◼   ► were like, oh, this has a headphone jack.

00:30:34 ◼   ► Like, poking fun of Apple for doing something

00:30:38 ◼   ► they thought was clearly ridiculous.

00:30:40 ◼   ► And I think there's gonna be some of that in this too,

00:30:43 ◼   ► where somebody's gonna buy this machine

00:30:45 ◼   ► not knowing all this, not listening to Connected or following us on Twitter. And they're like,

00:30:50 ◼   ► "Oh, what are these silly ports? I don't know what to do with these." Right? So I'm very

00:30:56 ◼   ► curious to see how it goes in the real world.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Here's what I think. I believe the problem lies, most of it at least, in the message.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Let's follow along. Compare the announcement of the iPhone 7 and the truly masterful PR

00:31:15 ◼   ► strategy that was the headphone jack. With a leak, quote-unquote "leak" coming out, what,

00:31:22 ◼   ► December 2015? Months, almost a year before the iPhone 7. And I see all of that maneuver

00:31:30 ◼   ► as a truly, almost perfect PR job. And it makes sense, right? It makes total sense,

00:31:39 ◼   ► because otherwise people are just gonna go crazy and focus only on the lack of a headphone

00:31:45 ◼   ► jack come September 2016.

00:31:48 ◼   ► Now I think that Apple were, I don't know if unprepared or maybe a little too certain

00:31:55 ◼   ► about the MacBook Pro announcement. But they could have done a lot to mitigate the nature

00:32:03 ◼   ► of the MacBook Pro and the lack of other desktop Mac announcements coming into the event. It's

00:32:12 ◼   ► all in the message, it's all in the perception. Because look at the iPhone 7. It lacks an

00:32:17 ◼   ► iPhone jack, but it's got a dongle inside, so you can adapt. And I don't know what you

00:32:22 ◼   ► you notice, but from what I've seen on Twitter, nobody's talking about the headphone jack

00:32:27 ◼   ► anymore. And when you talk to people and you mention, well, there's a free adapter in

00:32:30 ◼   ► the box, everyone is like, well, all right then, whatever. And if you apply that strategy

00:32:37 ◼   ► to the Mac community, I wonder if maybe a different structure of the keynote, different

00:32:45 ◼   ► messages in the keynote, different leaks coming into the event, different interviews after

00:32:50 ◼   ► the event, not the sort of scrambling that we're seeing now, with CNET releasing multiple

00:32:55 ◼   ► interviews and, you know, another interview with Phil Schiller today. It just feels like

00:33:00 ◼   ► all of the PR strategy went into the iPhone 7 and not so much went into the MacBook Pro

00:33:06 ◼   ► because Apple was surprised by the criticism that they received and Phil Schiller said

00:33:11 ◼   ► so in the interview today. So I think that a better orchestrated message and strategy

00:33:18 ◼   ► would have done wonders to the MacBook Pro announcement. And now Apple is kind of figuring

00:33:22 ◼   ► out what went wrong, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong with the computer itself.

00:33:26 ◼   ► And I truly believe that it's okay to move past a few things even when it's painful.

00:33:31 ◼   ► But most of the problem is not taking care of the message beforehand and leaving people to speculate,

00:33:38 ◼   ► leaving people to say, "Well, I should just maybe switch to Microsoft. I should just maybe switch

00:33:44 ◼   ► to Windows, the lack of an explanation, the lack of a coherent story at the event.

00:33:50 ◼   ► I think that's at least one of the most important aspects to consider.

00:33:57 ◼   ► Not just the technology part.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Because I feel like nerds, if you know how to take care of them, it's going to be okay.

00:34:06 ◼   ► And when it comes to this MacBook Pro, it almost feels like Apple was all invested in

00:34:11 ◼   ► the iPhone 7 announcement in the iPhone 7 story and when it came to the Mac event

00:34:16 ◼   ► they were like well you know Mac people are gonna be fine they love us.

00:34:19 ◼   ► Turns out if you don't know how to announce things that those people can

00:34:24 ◼   ► you know rally against you and it's definitely been a surprise.

00:34:28 ◼   ► Yeah I think there's something to be said there that the PR gamer on the iPhone was

00:34:34 ◼   ► strong and you know there's there's the angle too with these particular models

00:34:39 ◼   ► of they they're more expensive than their predecessors you know one reason I

00:34:45 ◼   ► bought the none the non touch bar one the MacBook escape as as ATP dubbed it

00:34:50 ◼   ► was the price as a secondary machine you know I just couldn't couldn't really

00:34:55 ◼   ► justify a more expensive purchase but I do wonder out in the real world would

00:35:03 ◼   ► have throwing a USB CD USB a adapter in the box been so bad you know they did it

00:35:08 ◼   ► - I don't think they'll do it on the iPhone ever again.

00:35:12 ◼   ► I agree with Myke, I think Myke said that first.

00:35:14 ◼   ► It's a one-time deal on the iPhone

00:35:17 ◼   ► to help usher people in and then the AirPods

00:35:19 ◼   ► will come out in March and everyone will be happy.

00:35:21 ◼   ► But why not do that on the MacBook Pro?

00:35:24 ◼   ► Is it that they are making such a statement

00:35:27 ◼   ► that you don't need any of that old stuff?

00:35:30 ◼   ► Which I think is probably the wrong statement,

00:35:32 ◼   ► it's probably too soon.

00:35:33 ◼   ► Or are they just assuming that people will just go get them?

00:35:36 ◼   ► I mean, I bought, I got a whole laundry list of things,

00:35:40 ◼   ► of dongles and adapters that are like slowly trickling

00:35:42 ◼   ► to my house from Amazon and Apple and everyone else

00:35:45 ◼   ► to plug stuff into this thing.

00:35:47 ◼   ► And it would have been a nice gesture for Apple

00:35:49 ◼   ► to include one.

00:35:50 ◼   ► And I think in a world where they were never going to put

00:35:53 ◼   ► a USB-A port on the side of this thing,

00:35:57 ◼   ► they were never gonna do it.

00:35:59 ◼   ► Then at least put that adapter in the box.

00:36:03 ◼   ► 'Cause you know what that adapter gives you?

00:36:05 ◼   ► the ability to plug in your iPhone.

00:36:07 ◼   ► Like, if there's anything this thing's

00:36:09 ◼   ► to be able to plug into, is the iPhone.

00:36:11 ◼   ► And you can buy a USB-C to lightning cable.

00:36:14 ◼   ► I have one now, and it's very confusing

00:36:17 ◼   ► 'cause the ends look very similar.

00:36:18 ◼   ► But, at least do that, at least put that adapter in the box.

00:36:22 ◼   ► And I think that they could have avoided

00:36:24 ◼   ► a lot of this sort of stress in the Mac community

00:36:28 ◼   ► if they had done that.

00:36:30 ◼   ► And then people like me who do need

00:36:33 ◼   ► every once in a while who do need to plug in to VGA sometimes. They'll just go get what

00:36:39 ◼   ► they need and that'll be fine. But everyone is going to need the USB-C to A adapter, like

00:36:45 ◼   ► everyone. And so why not at least include that? That's really what I keep coming back

00:36:48 ◼   ► to of like, I think they should have done it and why didn't they? And I think it's

00:36:54 ◼   ► the same answer because they think that this is the future and it's going to be great.

00:36:58 ◼   ► But again, there's that tension with the present.

00:37:01 ◼   ► It's all those little things, right? It's the little details that eventually kind of

00:37:06 ◼   ► snowball from a PR perspective and you end up with the memes on Twitter, you end up with

00:37:12 ◼   ► the people tweeting stuff like "if you buy a new iPhone you cannot even plug it into

00:37:17 ◼   ► the new MacBook" and it's PR's job to consider those scenarios, to kind of push the product

00:37:26 ◼   ► people to say "look, you gotta include a dongle in the box, otherwise we're gonna end up

00:37:31 ◼   ► with this kind of criticism from people and they're gonna paint us as a greedy corporation

00:37:37 ◼   ► because we let people buy the computer and buy the iPhone and they cannot even connect

00:37:41 ◼   ► them because we're gonna sell them a different cable. It's the changing the MagSafe with

00:37:46 ◼   ► no explanation. It's the removing the extra cable that goes from the wall to the power

00:37:52 ◼   ► adapter. It's all this little... It's leaving Aperture as an example of Mac Pro performance

00:37:59 ◼   ► when Aperture has been discontinued for two years. It's on the website. It's all those

00:38:05 ◼   ► little details, all those little things that I guarantee if you go to the iPhone webpage,

00:38:10 ◼   ► you're not going to find a detail like that. And you're not going to find a PR message

00:38:14 ◼   ► like that because it's all more tightly rehearsed. It's all more tightly prepared when it comes

00:38:20 ◼   ► to iOS devices than it is for the Mac. So, Fyos Shiller can say we're surprised, but

00:38:27 ◼   ► But are you really, should you really be surprised when you're doing such, I mean, in many ways

00:38:31 ◼   ► in different aspects, a sloppy job, honestly.

00:38:35 ◼   ► And surprising, but not really also.

00:38:39 ◼   ► Yeah, and the Cinex angle, this is what's going on in our chat room right now, is that

00:38:46 ◼   ► the dongles and the adapters and that extra extension cable, Apple makes money on that,

00:38:52 ◼   ► they make really good money on that.

00:38:54 ◼   ► I mean, I think the Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter is like 50 bucks or something.

00:38:58 ◼   ► The others are cheaper and they don't make all of them.

00:39:00 ◼   ► So like I bought a couple from Belkin because Apple didn't make them, but it's whatever

00:39:05 ◼   ► is listed on Apple's website.

00:39:07 ◼   ► But it's, it is, I mean, there's that side of it too of like Apple, like you buy this

00:39:10 ◼   ► machine and it's not a big deal to spend more, a little bit more money, but it is spending

00:39:15 ◼   ► more money and it does feel like you're being nickel and dimed a little bit if you need

00:39:18 ◼   ► to plug in all this different stuff.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Now I would, I would counter that argument.

00:39:21 ◼   ► I will counter it to our chat room by saying this has been the case with Apple

00:39:25 ◼   ► notebooks for a long time when they went to Thunderbolt and made DisplayPort and all that and got rid of DVI and

00:39:33 ◼   ► VGA and all that stuff in the years ago like we've been in this adapter world for a while

00:39:39 ◼   ► People are bummed because they have to buy new adapters

00:39:42 ◼   ► Like I basically just took out my Thunderbolt 2 adapters out of my backpack and put in USB C ones today

00:39:46 ◼   ► it's like well, these guys are now retired and

00:39:50 ◼   ► Y'all are on the front line now.

00:39:52 ◼   ► But you know I bought those adapters four or five years ago

00:39:55 ◼   ► And they've been fine, and they'll sit here because I save everything and I'll have them when I need them

00:40:00 ◼   ► Which is my excuse for lots of things and and it's fine so

00:40:04 ◼   ► All in all I think at the end of all of this

00:40:07 ◼   ► I like the machine

00:40:09 ◼   ► There's I'm not crazy in love with parts of it. I think there are some limitations that are a little frustrating

00:40:17 ◼   ► around what you can do with it under certain circumstances.

00:40:20 ◼   ► But what I wanted was a well-specced machine

00:40:24 ◼   ► that was fast enough for editing and logic and Final Cut

00:40:28 ◼   ► and something with a render display in a 13-form factor.

00:40:31 ◼   ► And I got that plus more because it is so small

00:40:35 ◼   ► and it is so light and it comes in space gray

00:40:36 ◼   ► which just looks sick.

00:40:38 ◼   ► And so I'm happy with my purchase.

00:40:40 ◼   ► And it means I gotta carry some dongles

00:40:44 ◼   ► but I was already doing that.

00:40:45 ◼   ► It means that I'm gonna explain to my family members Christmas if they get new Macs that

00:40:49 ◼   ► You know hey you gonna have to buy some adapters that maybe you you didn't have to with the previous one

00:40:55 ◼   ► It is what it is right like apple is not gonna go back on it. They don't there's one thing Apple does

00:41:02 ◼   ► It's we don't go back

00:41:04 ◼   ► those ports aren't gonna grow back overnight and

00:41:06 ◼   ► So it's a matter of if you need a machine and this fits your needs then order one

00:41:10 ◼   ► one. And if it doesn't, that's fine. Don't order one. But at some point you'll be in

00:41:14 ◼   ► this world with us now. And that kind of is how it is.

00:41:19 ◼   ► Yeah. On the other hand, people who have these new MacBook Pros, you know, you're never

00:41:26 ◼   ► gonna run out of gift ideas because you can always buy a dongle and it's always gonna

00:41:31 ◼   ► be a welcome gift. You know, it's like when you know someone is a smoker and you can buy

00:41:36 ◼   ► lighters you can buy ashtrays you know it's like a bad habit you cannot buy

00:41:41 ◼   ► dongles and it's gonna be a great gift because it's always gonna be convenient

00:41:45 ◼   ► so yeah I'm gonna give you dongles Stephen if you don't mind thank you yeah

00:41:49 ◼   ► I think I bought all the ones that needed but I appreciate the gesture

00:41:53 ◼   ► extras you know I mean I love extras after 39 I'm exiting in the next room

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00:43:56 ◼   ► So, we're gonna talk about Alexa? Yeah, you made me talk about Macs, now let's

00:44:01 ◼   ► talk about something fun that doesn't get people angry.

00:44:04 ◼   ► Wow. Let's talk, yeah, I mean, you know, just

00:44:07 ◼   ► take a look on Twitter, it's a bunch of people yelling at each other about USB cables,

00:44:11 ◼   ► you know, not my definition of fun. Anyway, so, Alexa, I hope you listeners have put your

00:44:19 ◼   ► Alexa devices on mute, otherwise please wait until I turn off your lights. Alexa, turn

00:44:26 ◼   ► off my kitchen light. So if that went off, I'm sorry, but I really wanted to make that

00:44:31 ◼   ► joke.

00:44:32 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:44:33 ◼   ► Now, now, Steven.

00:44:35 ◼   ► Mine is muted. I muted mine.

00:44:36 ◼   ► Yeah, me too.

00:44:37 ◼   ► Before we were recording, you said the magic words, and yours went off. And I heard it

00:44:45 ◼   ► in the background. I was like, "You gotta mute." So mine is right here on my desk, and

00:44:48 ◼   ► I just muted it. So you picked up an Echo Dot.

00:44:53 ◼   ► So I've been talking about my new found affection for Alexa for the past few weeks. It feels

00:45:01 ◼   ► like my usage has picked up a little and it picked up a lot since Todoist rolled out their

00:45:07 ◼   ► integration with the Amazon Echo which is you can now add tasks to your todo list just

00:45:15 ◼   ► by talking to Alexa, just by using your voice. You can add new tasks to Todoist because there's

00:45:21 ◼   ► native integration between the two which is basically works that Todoist plugs into the

00:45:27 ◼   ► native task manager built into the Alexa and it imports those tasks into the Todoist service.

00:45:35 ◼   ► It's very neat, very useful, I've been using it a lot. At the same time I asked Myke if

00:45:42 ◼   ► he was able to pick up an Echo Dot for me. The Amazon Echo or the Echo Dot, they're not

00:45:49 ◼   ► available on the Italian Amazon at all. I bought my first Echo from some shady seller

00:45:56 ◼   ► on eBay who got the Echo from the United States. But I decided to buy the Echo Dot from the

00:46:02 ◼   ► UK because I have an actual friend who's not shady at all, I think, for the most part

00:46:06 ◼   ► in the UK. So Myke got me an Echo Dot. And on the very day that I got the Echo Dot, I

00:46:13 ◼   ► started wondering, is it going to be a problem if I have a US Echo and a UK Echo Dot? So

00:46:17 ◼   ► good news, it's not a problem, it totally works. The Echo Dot just picks up the existing

00:46:22 ◼   ► language from your Amazon Echo setup.

00:46:25 ◼   ► Nice.

00:46:26 ◼   ► So, I totally love the fact that I have two Alexa entry points in my house. I have the

00:46:33 ◼   ► full Echo speaker in the kitchen and the second one, the Echo Dot, in the bedroom. Just because

00:46:41 ◼   ► my bedroom is also in the tiny corner, there's a desk where I get work done, so it seemed

00:46:46 ◼   ► more convenient to just talk to Alexa that way instead of yelling, you know.

00:46:49 ◼   ► Yeah. I put, I put my Echo Dot here in my office and the full size Echo is in the kitchen,

00:46:54 ◼   ► which I'd like I said it before, I'll say it again. That's where the Echo wants to be.

00:46:59 ◼   ► Like it is at home in the kitchen. But having the Dot out here in the office where I can

00:47:03 ◼   ► just shout at it all day is awesome. Like it's almost like I can walk in the house and

00:47:09 ◼   ► our kitchen is pretty central in the house. So if you're in that house, it can hear you.

00:47:13 ◼   ► and then out here I have it, it's kind of like Alexa is with me, you know, kind of wherever

00:47:18 ◼   ► I go during my day.

00:47:20 ◼   ► So initially I wanted to connect the Echo Dot to my Sony, what's it called, the soundbar,

00:47:28 ◼   ► you know, the thing that you put into it.

00:47:29 ◼   ► Sure, yeah, soundbar.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Yeah, the soundbar.

00:47:31 ◼   ► But there was some kind of problem with the soundbar and the activation of the speaker,

00:47:35 ◼   ► which is when I activated the Echo Dot by voice, it didn't play the activation sound.

00:47:41 ◼   ► So because of that and because I needed to always leave the soundbar switch to analog

00:47:46 ◼   ► input because of the Echo Dot, I thought I should just maybe buy a pair of cheap speakers

00:47:52 ◼   ► on Amazon and use those, turn them on all the, leave them turned on all the time just

00:47:58 ◼   ► for the Echo Dot.

00:47:59 ◼   ► So I bought like two Logitech PC speakers for like 15 euros from Amazon.

00:48:05 ◼   ► And they were, they're amazing because I don't usually listen to music in the bedroom when

00:48:09 ◼   ► I'm writing, listening to music usually happens in the kitchen, which is also a shared

00:48:15 ◼   ► space, so it made more sense to have the better echo speaker there. And now it's fine, I

00:48:21 ◼   ► have these speakers next to my TV and it's perfect. So I love the fact that I can walk

00:48:28 ◼   ► around the house, talk to Alexa, and Alexa activates on the speaker which is nearest

00:48:34 ◼   ► to me. This is a new feature called "special recognition" I think, and it basically uses

00:48:39 ◼   ► distance to measure which Echo device should respond to you. So if I'm in the bedroom,

00:48:45 ◼   ► it responds to the Echo Dot next to my television. If I'm nearest to the kitchen, the full Echo

00:48:53 ◼   ► speaker replies, which makes a lot of sense. It works really well in practice. I read about

00:48:59 ◼   ► this on six colors because of Dan Moran and it was right, it totally works as advertised.

00:49:07 ◼   ► Besides using Alexa for timers, listening to Spotify, which I gotta clean, I have two

00:49:14 ◼   ► subscriptions to music services. I use both Apple Music and Spotify. I just gave up on

00:49:20 ◼   ► the fact that I cannot choose because each does a few things that I like. This is probably

00:49:27 ◼   ► be another topic for a future episode. So besides timers and music now, I'm using

00:49:31 ◼   ► Todoist a lot. Like, I'm saving tasks with Alexa all the time. It's super convenient,

00:49:38 ◼   ► especially because it picks up the natural language input that you say to Alexa.

00:49:43 ◼   ► But I've also bought Steven, and I realized that I'm late to this Logitech Harmony remote.

00:49:50 ◼   ► I think these remotes have been going around for like a decade?

00:49:55 ◼   ► Yeah, they've been around a long time.

00:49:57 ◼   ► Like, they're super popular.

00:49:59 ◼   ► But I only recently realized they are, in fact, a thing that people enjoy because Logitech

00:50:06 ◼   ► rolled out — or should I say Logi?

00:50:08 ◼   ► The name of the company is just Logi.

00:50:09 ◼   ► Anyway, Logitech or Logi.

00:50:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:50:12 ◼   ► They rolled out this Alexa integration.

00:50:15 ◼   ► And it's awesome.

00:50:16 ◼   ► So I bought a Logitech Harmony Remote and a Harmony Hub.

00:50:22 ◼   ► So the hub is like a glossy Apple TV, it's this little puck that you put next to your

00:50:28 ◼   ► television and it does a bunch of things. It can control Philips Hue lights and other

00:50:33 ◼   ► home automation devices, but also it connects to a lot of home entertainment systems. It

00:50:41 ◼   ► supports televisions, Vitagang consoles, DVRs, speakers. If it's a home entertainment

00:50:51 ◼   ► system made in the past 10 to 15 years, it probably works with the Harmony Hub. And now,

00:50:59 ◼   ► what I can do is frankly amazing, and I can confirm that even my girlfriend was impressed

00:51:05 ◼   ► by this. She's usually not impressed by my geeking around, but this time she was. I can

00:51:10 ◼   ► turn on my TV, turn off my TV, switch channels, and switch inputs, so I can say things like

00:51:17 ◼   ► like "Alexa, turn on Apple TV" and my TV turns on, switches to HDMI 1, the soundbar

00:51:25 ◼   ► switches to HDMI 2, which is the input for the Apple TV. The Apple TV turns on and in

00:51:30 ◼   ► a second I'm looking at the Apple TV home screen, which I don't use, it was just an

00:51:34 ◼   ► experiment, I actually set up a Chromecast recipe which I use all the time. I can say

00:51:38 ◼   ► things like "Alexa, turn on the TV" and then "Alexa, switch to 5" and it switches

00:51:43 ◼   ► to the Channel 5, which I watch all the time. It feels like the future, like I can talk

00:51:48 ◼   ► to my television and turn it on. It's awesome. And I'm very excited by this. Also by the

00:51:53 ◼   ► fact that I can control all of these different inputs from a single remote. Now I'm going

00:51:59 ◼   ► to sound like a person who just discovered a thing that has been around for like 20 years,

00:52:06 ◼   ► but this is totally new to me. Like I can have a single remote and I can switch inputs

00:52:10 ◼   ► without having to use all of these remotes which I put in my drawer because I don't use

00:52:14 ◼   ► them anymore. This is amazing. Why didn't you guys tell me about this before?

00:52:20 ◼   ► The thing that really gets me about that is, so you have this working with Logitech and

00:52:26 ◼   ► Amazon and the stuff in between and the Google Home stuff works with Chromecast so you can

00:52:34 ◼   ► shout to your Google Home little friend and say, "Hey, turn on the TV," and it can do

00:52:38 ◼   ► that sort of thing. I have a Google Home on the way. I ordered it on air a couple weeks

00:52:44 ◼   ► ago. But this is another situation where Siri is not competitive. I understand this is all

00:52:53 ◼   ► new so I'm not upset with Apple yet, but it's something they should be listening to.

00:52:58 ◼   ► Because they have the Apple TV sitting there and they have the watch on your wrist where

00:53:08 ◼   ► Siri works pretty well most of the time actually for me I have the most luck

00:53:11 ◼   ► with the with watch OS Siri and they have it on your phone in your pocket or

00:53:16 ◼   ► your iPad on the on the kitchen table and it's so isolated from each other

00:53:22 ◼   ► where because the the Alexa platform is open logitech was able to hook into it

00:53:29 ◼   ► and do all this stuff and if Apple's not going to do that or is there a Siri kid

00:53:35 ◼   ► is gonna still be really limited,

00:53:36 ◼   ► then at least make your own devices

00:53:39 ◼   ► smarter about each other.

00:53:42 ◼   ► Where I could tell Siri on one device

00:53:44 ◼   ► to do something on another device.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Or I could ask Siri about something that is

00:53:50 ◼   ► happening on the Apple TV when I'm on my iPad.

00:53:53 ◼   ► Just be aware of what's going on on these other devices.

00:53:56 ◼   ► Right now it just doesn't have that.

00:53:58 ◼   ► And I'm curious, we kinda blew through it last week,

00:54:03 ◼   ► this TV app and there's not much known about it.

00:54:06 ◼   ► There's still some questions.

00:54:07 ◼   ► It's coming to iOS.

00:54:08 ◼   ► And I really hope that they're doing some stuff in there

00:54:12 ◼   ► where I can pick up my iPad and I can just pick up

00:54:15 ◼   ► the TV show that I was watching on the Apple TV

00:54:17 ◼   ► that had turned off last night to go to bed.

00:54:20 ◼   ► And I can pick my iPad up on my lunch break

00:54:22 ◼   ► and hit play and be in the same place.

00:54:26 ◼   ► I would love for them to start applying this stuff

00:54:30 ◼   ► cross device, you know, cross platform.

00:54:33 ◼   ► And this is another example of someone else

00:54:35 ◼   ► beating them to it, but I think it's time

00:54:37 ◼   ► that Apple tackles them, especially in the living room,

00:54:40 ◼   ► right, where it makes the most sense,

00:54:42 ◼   ► where you can walk in and say,

00:54:44 ◼   ► hey, you know, put on the Memphis football game.

00:54:47 ◼   ► And it knows what to do, and it turns the TV on,

00:54:49 ◼   ► and it all just works, it'd be great.

00:54:52 ◼   ► So, hopefully Apple follows suit here,

00:54:54 ◼   ► because this stuff sounds really interesting,

00:54:56 ◼   ► Google Home stuff sounds really nice.

00:55:00 ◼   ► And I think that it's something that they need to look at

00:55:03 ◼   ► because they have all the components, right?

00:55:05 ◼   ► It's just time to start putting them together.

00:55:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think, I've been thinking about this

00:55:11 ◼   ► and all the interactions that I'm having with Alexa

00:55:15 ◼   ► and with connected services and devices,

00:55:18 ◼   ► those are interactions that are not going to Siri.

00:55:22 ◼   ► And the more I buy into this ecosystem,

00:55:26 ◼   ► the more I switch to services and apps

00:55:28 ◼   ► and devices that don't plug into Siri.

00:55:32 ◼   ► The more my iPhone, in a way, is becoming a dumb pipe,

00:55:37 ◼   ► if you think about it.

00:55:38 ◼   ► It just delivers access to an app

00:55:41 ◼   ► that is connected to a service that

00:55:44 ◼   ► works with another ecosystem.

00:55:46 ◼   ► So I'm using Todoist on my iPhone, for example.

00:55:51 ◼   ► But Todoist is based on a service that talks to Alexa.

00:55:54 ◼   ► And none of that is part of Siri.

00:55:56 ◼   ► None of that is part of my iPhone.

00:55:58 ◼   ► And probably right now, that's not a problem.

00:56:01 ◼   ► And we don't know how many units Amazon has sold of Echos.

00:56:06 ◼   ► I'm gonna say a couple of millions maybe to be optimistic.

00:56:09 ◼   ► But it's, I mean, once you try these things,

00:56:12 ◼   ► and I mean, right now it's totally convoluted.

00:56:16 ◼   ► You gotta buy a bunch of devices, a bunch of cables,

00:56:19 ◼   ► the different logins, the Amazon Alexa app is a mess

00:56:23 ◼   ► if you want to configure a bunch of settings.

00:56:25 ◼   ► It's all very early, but it works.

00:56:27 ◼   ► And it's amazing when it works, which is most of the time.

00:56:30 ◼   ► It's very reliable, at least in my experience.

00:56:33 ◼   ► And I have a bit of an accent.

00:56:34 ◼   ► I talk to Alexa in English.

00:56:35 ◼   ► I have an accent.

00:56:36 ◼   ► And she's learned to understand me.

00:56:39 ◼   ► And once you try this convenience, it makes sense.

00:56:43 ◼   ► And I want to see Apple experimenting with this.

00:56:46 ◼   ► But on the other hand, you look at Siri,

00:56:48 ◼   ► and you look at the Siri kit on iOS 10,

00:56:51 ◼   ► and it's limited to a bunch of things

00:56:54 ◼   ► that I don't use on a daily basis.

00:56:57 ◼   ► And instead, I can connect anything I want to to my Amazon Echo. And so when I, when

00:57:02 ◼   ► I'm, sometimes I look at, I'm sitting in my kitchen or actually I'm washing dishes

00:57:07 ◼   ► and I turn around and I think about something that I want to ask. And I, for a second, I

00:57:13 ◼   ► go like, should I invoke Siri or should I just invoke Alexa? And I've come to the

00:57:18 ◼   ► point where it's almost second nature. I just talked to Alexa because I know it's

00:57:25 ◼   ► gonna work and I feel like that's a problem. Maybe it's just me, maybe it's a

00:57:29 ◼   ► bunch of other people like me and you and Myke but I do believe Apple should

00:57:34 ◼   ► consider having a wider presence for Siri in the home because if they don't

00:57:39 ◼   ► maybe they're just kind of stuck in their ways.

00:57:43 ◼   ► I don't know man, I mean Siri started life inside of one iPhone model and while it has spread it still

00:57:51 ◼   ► feels very much like that's their approach. Like Siri is inside my iMac or

00:57:57 ◼   ► inside my iPad and it doesn't exist as a service bigger than the device that it's

00:58:03 ◼   ► on. So like speaking to my Echo Dot or to my Echo in the kitchen feels like I'm

00:58:09 ◼   ► speaking to the same like all-knowing service. Or if I would imagine if I got

00:58:13 ◼   ► my Pixel and speak to the assistant there and then my Google Home comes in

00:58:17 ◼   ► and they will overlap hopefully so I can do this, that it will feel

00:58:21 ◼   ► like I'm speaking to one all-knowing service and it's not handcuffed to the

00:58:26 ◼   ► device that it's housed on. And I mean I understand why Apple like well how it's

00:58:33 ◼   ► gotten this way and for a long time there was no real competition in this

00:58:38 ◼   ► but the competition is here and I think that they need to think think bigger

00:58:43 ◼   ► about what Siri can do and think you know begin to approach it as this is a

00:58:49 ◼   ► service and the like you said the device is just a pipe to get there and it's not

00:58:53 ◼   ► about Siri on the phone versus Siri on the iPad. I mean clearly there's always

00:58:59 ◼   ► going to be platform specific stuff like the Apple TV series you can always do

00:59:03 ◼   ► things that are different the Mac series can do stuff with files but like the the

00:59:07 ◼   ► base layer of what this service is needs to be needs to feel more encompassing

00:59:13 ◼   ► and I agree with you right now it just doesn't and I like you will reach for

00:59:17 ◼   ► the Alexa command first, and it does a good job

00:59:20 ◼   ► of understanding me, it understands my young kids,

00:59:23 ◼   ► it understands the kids even.

00:59:26 ◼   ► I guess, I mean, I don't feel bad about this,

00:59:31 ◼   ► right, it's not that, this is the option

00:59:34 ◼   ► that works best for me right now.

00:59:37 ◼   ► Hats off to Amazon, right, they had the Kindle,

00:59:40 ◼   ► and they had tablets, which are hilarious,

00:59:43 ◼   ► and the phone that was a disaster, but this thing,

00:59:46 ◼   ► have tapped into something here that is good. And I like that they're investing in it. I

00:59:51 ◼   ► like that they are opening it up to developers. And I think there's a lot that Apple could

00:59:55 ◼   ► learn from Amazon in this category.

00:59:58 ◼   ► A bigger point that we don't usually mention and I don't see a lot of people talk about

01:00:03 ◼   ► is that all of Apple's assistant efforts are based on, when it comes to third-party integrations,

01:00:11 ◼   ► are based on the, are predicated even on the idea of having an app on your phone, downloading

01:00:19 ◼   ► an app. So if the app is not installed or if the app is crashing, I cannot do stuff

01:00:26 ◼   ► with the Assistant and the app. Whereas the trend we're seeing with Alexa and in the future

01:00:32 ◼   ► with the Google Home is web APIs, web services talking to each other without having to install

01:00:40 ◼   ► the bits of an app locally on your device. And I think, I mean, of course it plays to

01:00:46 ◼   ► Apple's strengths to rely on the App Store, to rely on the secure framework and, you know,

01:00:52 ◼   ► the sandbox of iOS. But I worry if the, if having sort of taken that approach is going

01:01:01 ◼   ► to limit Apple going forward, is going to limit developers going forward, because every

01:01:05 ◼   ► time you want to roll out a new integration, you've got to make sure that instead of having

01:01:11 ◼   ► the freedom of the web and the different APIs that you can mix and match on the web, you've

01:01:16 ◼   ► got to talk to a different silo every time. You've got to talk to a different app all

01:01:21 ◼   ► the time. I believe that's fine when it comes to extensions, that's fine when it comes to

01:01:27 ◼   ► widgets, that's fine when it comes to custom keyboards. But for something such as an assistant,

01:01:33 ◼   ► such as machine learning, such as using multiple services together, I wonder if the app is

01:01:39 ◼   ► the correct approach. And I wonder if maybe relying on web services, which is what Amazon

01:01:44 ◼   ► and Google do best, may be the preferable way going forward. It's definitely going

01:01:49 ◼   ► to be an interesting scenario, I think, between such three different companies, you know,

01:01:56 ◼   ► Amazon, Google and Apple, sort of playing in the same field together. Because you've

01:02:02 ◼   ► got to believe that Apple is working on a Siri device. We saw the leaks a few months

01:02:08 ◼   ► ago and those things usually happen because Apple wants to send a message. So it is going

01:02:13 ◼   ► to be interesting to see these three companies battling for the same space. But I also wanted

01:02:19 ◼   ► to add, to sum up, when we talk in general on this show about competitors to Apple, we

01:02:28 ◼   ► We don't want to, we get this kind of feedback quite on a regular basis. We are not down

01:02:34 ◼   ► on Apple. We're just trying to be fair, you know, because I'm speaking for myself,

01:02:41 ◼   ► but I think we're all on the same page. We like technology in general. We like messing

01:02:47 ◼   ► around with different devices, different hardware. We're lucky because we get to play with

01:02:52 ◼   ► these things because it's our job. And we like to talk about it. But it's not that

01:02:58 ◼   ► we're… it's not like the… I actually got an email. I think we got an email saying

01:03:03 ◼   ► that the competition is paying us to talk about them in a different light. And I mean,

01:03:10 ◼   ► you can't believe what you want, but it's just a genuine, you know, interest in what

01:03:17 ◼   ► is going on around Apple, especially because on the iPhone today you can have so many different

01:03:22 ◼   ► services. You can have Cortana from Microsoft on the iPhone. You can have the Google Assistant

01:03:27 ◼   ► on your iPhone. It's kind of crazy, all of the different ecosystems you can have inside

01:03:32 ◼   ► of another ecosystem. And that's the beautiful thing about the App Store. You can buy an

01:03:37 ◼   ► iPhone because you like Apple, because you like the iPhone, and then you can try all

01:03:40 ◼   ► these other different companies. You can try all these other different devices. And often,

01:03:44 ◼   ► You know, Apple is kind of following in the footsteps of other companies such as music

01:03:49 ◼   ► streaming or photo storage, you know. I mean, it's always best, I think, to keep an open

01:03:56 ◼   ► mind. And when it comes to Assistant, when it comes to Alexa, I think we're going to

01:04:02 ◼   ► see Siri taking a similar approach in the future. So I feel like it's best to be prepared

01:04:10 ◼   ► and best to know what we're dealing with and to prepare our expectations accordingly.

01:04:18 ◼   ► Well said my friend.

01:04:19 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:04:21 ◼   ► So I think that does it for this week.

01:04:23 ◼   ► I think that's it.

01:04:25 ◼   ► If you want to find the show notes to links we talked about, you can do so on the web

01:04:30 ◼   ► at relay.fm/connected/115.

01:04:36 ◼   ► You get in touch with us as well.

01:04:38 ◼   ► There's an email link.

01:04:39 ◼   ► You can email us conspiracy theories.

01:04:41 ◼   ► You can find us on Twitter.

01:04:42 ◼   ► Federico is at Viti, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:04:47 ◼   ► You can find his writing at the glorious,

01:04:51 ◼   ► the website with the night mode, which you haven't used.

01:04:55 ◼   ► Super awesome.

01:04:56 ◼   ► Maxstories.net.

01:04:58 ◼   ► You can find Myke in the afterlife on Twitter at I-M-Y-K-E

01:05:03 ◼   ► and you can find me at 512pixels.net

01:05:06 ◼   ► or on Twitter at ISMH.

01:05:09 ◼   ► Until next week, Federico, say goodbye.

01:05:12 ◼   ► - Arrivederci.

01:05:13 ◼   ► - Adios.