0:00:00[Music]
0:00:06From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 106. Today's show is brought to you by
0:00:12Eero, Pingdom and Freshbooks. My name is Myke Curley
0:00:15and I'm joined by Federico Vittigi. Ciao Federico! Ciao Myke!
0:00:19And Stephen Hackett. Hello Stephen Hackett. Hello Michael Hurley.
0:00:23You should have said Howdy. I should have said Howdy.
0:00:26I messed up. Should I just start all over again? From Relay? Should I just do that again?
0:00:30Is that good? No. Is that how that works? No? No. We're just gonna push through, right?
0:00:34I'm just gonna go right to follow up. Follow up.
0:00:37Follow up. So we had a couple people tweet. We will give credit to Jonathan on Twitter
0:00:44talking about Apple Music and how you have to be an Apple Music subscriber to get access
0:00:51to it. And it also seems like festival video streams will also be available only to Apple
0:00:59Music members. So in the past you could download, like they had an iPad app or you get it from
0:01:03iTunes even way back and watch concerts and it seems like even that is going to be locked
0:01:08into the Apple Music ecosystem this year. Which is a, you know, eh.
0:01:16I mean this is obvious to me, like as soon as I saw the tickets go out, like obviously
0:01:20they're gonna put it behind the wall.
0:01:22So yeah, I was a little surprised by it, but I guess I was not being as cynical as the
0:01:28two of you.
0:01:29I'm not being cynical.
0:01:31I'm just like...
0:01:32I mean, I'm not gonna pay for Apple Music to see him, so I'm not gonna see him, which
0:01:34is a little bit of a bummer.
0:01:35Would you have watched them?
0:01:37Do you?
0:01:38If there's someone that I want to see, then yes.
0:01:41All right.
0:01:42I don't know why I found the question funny.
0:01:45I don't know why.
0:01:46Well, I don't know.
0:01:47Do they have any of your old man music?
0:01:49(laughter)
0:01:51- Up next, I wanted to point people to a article
0:01:59by our friend Jason Snell over at iMore.
0:02:02He wrote his column this month about the age
0:02:05of dramatic Apple event reveals being over.
0:02:09Something we talked about maybe even in the prompt days
0:02:12way far back about how going into these events
0:02:15there's not as many surprises as there used to be
0:02:17thanks to Supply Chain Links and Mark Gorman.
0:02:20- Mark Gorman. - Whatever it is he does.
0:02:22(laughing)
0:02:23We're gonna talk about the event here in a couple minutes,
0:02:26but I wanted to highlight that.
0:02:27I think it's a nice article and I think that it's,
0:02:29you know, it is different than it used to be
0:02:31and Jason argues that that's okay.
0:02:34So I think I agree.
0:02:36- I think it is okay, I agree with that.
0:02:37It's sad, but at least, you know,
0:02:41I'm happy that I had a time where that was a thing, right?
0:02:44Where it was like, what's it gonna be?
0:02:46But now there is kind of just a different enjoyment in knowing,
0:02:50because we have all of the stuff to talk about and think about in the run-up.
0:02:54It's just a different thing.
0:02:56You can prepare your credit card.
0:02:57I'd argue that we're not getting surprises for hardware anymore,
0:03:02but we're still getting surprises for software.
0:03:04I mean, look at WWDC and how nobody knew what iOS 10 and Sierra,
0:03:08I mean, the new OS 10 at the time, were going to be like.
0:03:12So we're getting surprises in a different way.
0:03:14Maybe at the developer conference because that's what Apple can control more.
0:03:17We're not getting surprises in September anymore.
0:03:19And also like Myke, I'm glad that I got to experience that when you know the music event
0:03:24when it used to be in September and people were like talking about the new iPhone, the
0:03:28new iPods a few years ago.
0:03:30Now we're kind of doing that in a different way for software because we don't know I mean
0:03:33what's the new Apple Music Redesign going to be like?
0:03:36What's you know what's coming to iOS?
0:03:38What's coming to iOS for iPad?
0:03:40You know, joke there.
0:03:42But so yeah, it's different, I guess.
0:03:44I wanted to mention that I am still using To-Do for my task management.
0:03:48We spoke about this on our membership show, and an app that Federico, you covered extensively
0:03:54on Mac Stories a while back, and you're using Todoist again.
0:03:58People can go, if you haven't heard it, you should go listen to the Canvas episodes.
0:04:02Y'all have done what, three of them now on GTD apps?
0:04:06Yeah.
0:04:07We'll link to those in the show notes.
0:04:08So they're all really good, one on OmniFocus, one on Todoist, the latest one on To Do, Ben
0:04:13Brooks set in for you.
0:04:15And it's a great little series, so if you are looking for an iOS GTD system, you should
0:04:22definitely check out those three episodes.
0:04:24Really informative and helpful if you're trying to pick, or if you're like me and you bounce
0:04:29around.
0:04:30But still using To Do, still really happy with it, and just wanted to follow up on that.
0:04:35I am surprised.
0:04:36I kind of at the time I think was saying that I thought that you were gonna switch away, but you're still there
0:04:41Yeah, I was ready with a with a remember to milk joke, but no
0:04:45They do have a big redesign that I played with but it's just I just need a little bit more
0:04:51Also having the cow on my home screen
0:04:54Means I have to change it out anytime to do a screenshot to avoid being made fun of and that just felt like a lot
0:04:58of work to be honest
0:05:00Lastly I want to talk a little bit about something that came up on episode 105 last week
0:05:06which is about privacy and online services,
0:05:09talking about the security trade-offs
0:05:13that come with some of these services.
0:05:15So some services can turn over day to the government.
0:05:18And when I say the government, I'm at the US government.
0:05:20If compelled, others encrypt the data in a way
0:05:23which makes that impossible.
0:05:26For a while, Apple was somewhere in between
0:05:27where some stuff they could turn over,
0:05:29like some iCloud backup data,
0:05:30but then things like iMessage were encrypted end to end.
0:05:33and I think Apple is moving more towards that model.
0:05:38And we got a bunch of feedback, we got a bunch of email,
0:05:40and people on Twitter were talking about a comment
0:05:43that we made, and I wanted to clarify it a little bit.
0:05:46I know this is gonna lead to more feedback, and that's fine.
0:05:50But the idea that we quote, "Have nothing to hide,"
0:05:54and I can't do anything about it, so why worry about it?
0:05:58In saying that, none of us, I don't think,
0:06:03are okay that the US government can go into our iCloud backups, right?
0:06:07None of us think that's cool, none of us are really excited about that, but it is a trade-off
0:06:13that we accept because we want to use a service like iCloud backup.
0:06:18A bunch of people threw around this Edward Snowden quote saying, "Arguing that you have
0:06:23nothing to hide or that you don't care about the right to privacy is like saying you don't
0:06:27care about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say."
0:06:30We understand that and I think all we were saying,
0:06:32we weren't speaking to that reality
0:06:35or speaking to that political environment,
0:06:37we were just talking about we understand
0:06:40that it's a reality and that we accept certain trade-offs
0:06:44for the utility that certain services offer.
0:06:47It wasn't a judgment call in the state of the world
0:06:50or one particular service or another
0:06:51or the service that you're really in love with
0:06:53that we don't use.
0:06:54All of that aside, we were just saying,
0:06:57with anything you use online, there are trade-offs
0:06:59that you should be aware of them.
0:07:01And I would add, we had that Dropbox link
0:07:05in the show notes last week.
0:07:07All these companies have information on their website
0:07:09about that saying who has access to what sort of things.
0:07:12And anytime the US government can have access to something,
0:07:16that means that employees of that company
0:07:18have to facilitate that.
0:07:19So yes, it means that Dropbox employees could,
0:07:22if compelled by the US government,
0:07:25go into my Dropbox account and look at my documents.
0:07:28And yes, it does mean that if some crazy rogue Dropbox employee with that very specific power
0:07:34wanted to abuse it, that they could.
0:07:37But I trust Dropbox is having policies in place to avoid that sort of thing.
0:07:42So I just wanted to clarify that.
0:07:45I felt a little misunderstood and a little frustrated after last week's episode.
0:07:49So anyways, we can move on for privacy.
0:07:52But yeah, I just wanted to get that out there.
0:07:56Apple have announced an event for next week.
0:07:59It is the event that we expected, the September event.
0:08:02There kind of isn't much to say.
0:08:04We'll be covering the event next week,
0:08:07probably on Thursday, so the day after,
0:08:08once all the little tidbits have come out
0:08:11of what is announced,
0:08:12I guess we're definitely expecting the phone,
0:08:14most likely expecting the watch
0:08:17and maybe expecting some Mac stuff.
0:08:20But there was something I wanted to point out
0:08:21which really made me giggles.
0:08:23Federico was being stupid with the criminology stuff and drew a box around two of the little
0:08:30lights that are shown in the in the like the blurred kind of bouquet or have you call it
0:08:36blurring of the image. He drew a little box around them and said it was a dual camera
0:08:40confirmed because these two little white dots next to each other. And then the Daily Mail
0:08:45printed this in one of their columns saying that Apple watchers say this is part of the
0:08:51invite that reveals what appears to be the much rumoured double camera lens. So the Daily
0:08:56Mail is taking Federico's dumb jokes and printing them as fact.
0:08:59Man, they didn't even give me credit. Yeah.
0:09:02How did you find it?
0:09:06Well, how did I find it? Some… a reader, I think, sent me a link to the Daily Mail
0:09:12saying they got your joke, but they didn't credit you. I mean, it was really stupid.
0:09:19I literally looked at the invite and I drew a little box with the…
0:09:24I mean it is kind of perfect because they're the same color and they're perfectly aligned,
0:09:27right? Yeah, and actually I got a few people messaging
0:09:31me privately because I assumed that you don't want to go on the record and saying, "Actually
0:09:35I think it makes sense. I think it is a hint to the dual camera." And maybe it is, maybe
0:09:40it's not. I was just being silly. I look at it and I'm like, "I know it's
0:09:44stupid. It is right! They're the only two that are like perfectly aligned. They're
0:09:53the same kind of... I don't know. It is dumb. It's criminology stuff. And it was
0:09:57funny that you made a joke about that, which ended up being a thing.
0:10:01I thought the joke was obvious in its nature of being a joke because I used the hashtag
0:10:05ANALYST at the end. No man, that means you're serious.
0:10:10No, can you name anyone who's serious about being an analyst who tags his own tweets with
0:10:15analysts?
0:10:16I bet there are many.
0:10:17All of them.
0:10:18Seriously?
0:10:19Every single one of them, yeah.
0:10:20No, no, come on.
0:10:21That's messed up.
0:10:22It's the type of people that put hashtag leadership in their Twitter bio.
0:10:25Oh, come on.
0:10:26What I like to think about in these stories are the graphic designers who do these sort
0:10:31of invites, and that if these things go out and they just watch Twitter to see what people
0:10:37read into them because I mean the older I get the more I find this whole scene
0:10:40just really tiring but it's like I just imagine these guys designers maybe they
0:10:46have like some sort of like bedding pool or maybe they have like a draft where
0:10:50it's like these are all the things people will read into this and someone
0:10:53someone like Frederick Hill comes in and and blows it all out of the water and I
0:10:57think those designers go home and drink the day after their invite gets sent out
0:11:00to the world. Oh my gosh the best thing in the world has just happened. I went to
0:11:05twitter.com and I searched the word analyst. The top tweet for analyst is Federico. And
0:11:18I even opened it in an incognito window just to check that it's not applying my timeline
0:11:23bias. The top tweet right now for the word analyst is Federico. That's really good. That
0:11:30That is amazing. Oh, teacher, you are an analyst now. Congratulations.
0:11:36I guess I made it. You've made it. You've done it.
0:11:39My new line of work has been an analyst of event invitations.
0:11:43Pack it up. Yeah.
0:11:44Yeah. I mean, screw McStories and everything else. I'm going to be an analyst now.
0:11:50Analyst stories.
0:11:51Done with the review.
0:11:52Yeah. Yeah. Well, well done. I'm patting myself on the back with this.
0:11:56Good job.
0:11:57Yeah. Thank you.
0:11:58We're very proud of you.
0:11:59This week's episode is brought to you by FreshBooks, the company on a mission to save time and
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0:12:22me some of the least frustration, is going to take some of the least time, because FreshBooks
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0:14:06All right, so Apple have acquired a health data company called Glimpse and it's Glimpse
0:14:15with two I's because web 3.0 I guess. And they were a company that could help individuals
0:14:22get access to their medical records. So this is I think it's US focused but so this is basically a
0:14:28way to bring all of your stuff together. I think there are digital forms for medical records in the
0:14:34US from what I can understand but they're in a bunch of different formats and it's really hard
0:14:40to kind of bring them all together in a way that you can view them but that is their idea. So you
0:14:44bring all the medical information together it lets you look at it you can build on it you can
0:14:49personalize and customize it and share it with people and use that data in interesting
0:14:54ways to kind of build a better picture about your health. So Apple have acquired this company,
0:14:59it's obvious why they've acquired this company, and I wonder just is this a good thing? Steven,
0:15:04is this the type of stuff that you want to have access to and do you want Apple to be
0:15:09the company that has the access?
0:15:13I do want access to this sort of thing. So I'm by no means an expert in this field, but
0:15:18But my understanding a little bit is that the medical health record system is really
0:15:23fragmented in the US.
0:15:24And basically you have some standards, but all these hospitals and doctors' offices either
0:15:30go like purchase or sometimes build internally their own system to access that data.
0:15:35And so you have stuff kind of all over the place.
0:15:39And just because it's at one hospital and maybe you visited another doctor's office
0:15:43that is not part of the same system, they don't necessarily know about each other.
0:15:47It would be nice to have one central repository for all of that.
0:15:52And so I could go in to a doctor's office or, you know, God forbid, take him to the
0:15:56hospital for something.
0:15:58And you know, I hand my iPhone or something to the nurse or the doctor and, you know,
0:16:05they have, you know, some way to access everything that I have about me from one central place.
0:16:11So they're not reliant on, you know, finding out who my physician is and going to their
0:16:16office and getting their records and hoping that they're open. All that would be really
0:16:19nice if we were all central. I think it would be great.
0:16:23And then I guess the idea is you could take these records that come from medical assessments
0:16:28and use them to help build a better picture of your health so you're able to do different
0:16:32things, right? Right, you could be proactive about stuff.
0:16:35Exactly. You could build that data into your workouts. You could build that data into your
0:16:39diet. It is an interesting idea. And I have to say, if my data was going to be held by
0:16:44a company, I would want that company to be Apple. Like my medical records, if I was going
0:16:49to give somebody access to that, they're the company that I would want to have it.
0:16:54Yeah, it's, I agree, you know, they've done a good job with the health app and there's
0:17:00also some frustrations around it, like, you know, if you got to do a restore on your phone,
0:17:06do you lose your activity rings, I mean, there's all that stuff to worry about that they just
0:17:08need to work through. But I think that they're proving that they can be
0:17:13trusted with this sort of data and you know they would need to work through
0:17:18some of that. I would think at some point something like this would need to have a
0:17:22server-side component. I don't know if it could be all on device. It's almost too
0:17:27important just to be on device. Like if my phone gets it you know gets destroyed
0:17:31in an accident and I'm in that accident where I'm in a car crash my
0:17:35phone gets destroyed and my wife needs something you know out of that record it
0:17:41was only on my phone she kind of stuck does she need to like restore her phone
0:17:44to my iCloud backup to get it like there's lots of edge cases there that
0:17:48are worth talking about and thinking through but I think overall this is a
0:17:53promising idea and I think it's one that you know in these Tim Cook interviews
0:17:57and stuff like this fits in with what they're doing right that you could see
0:18:01Apple moving towards a system that would support this sort of stuff where you
0:18:06could import your medical records from your doctor's office and have it all
0:18:09available to you and I really like the proactive thought like you said you know
0:18:14if something in that medical record says oh you know my cholesterol is a little
0:18:17high and then maybe that gets that becomes a factor in like the goals the
0:18:22watch sets for me like all sorts of interesting things have come out of it
0:18:26and I think it would be it'd be really nice because I mean the the truth is
0:18:31that a lot of people don't have a full picture of their health a lot of people
0:18:35I forget the percentage I used to know it but it's it's crazy high of percentage
0:18:40of like prescriptions that aren't followed through on properly so like if
0:18:44you're supposed to take medication over seven days people stop at three days
0:18:47because they're trying to feel better even that sort of thing right that if
0:18:52your watch knew about your prescriptions and it could remind you or your
0:18:55phone could give you notification of like "hey you need to take your medication at
0:18:59this time" all that is like really enriching and so I'm in favor of this
0:19:05sort of modernization of medical records. What do you think Federico? I mean it's
0:19:11great if Apple wants to do it you know it makes total sense to have a company
0:19:15that you know especially when it comes to this health stuff they have such huge
0:19:18respect for user privacy and security I think it makes total sense to now I'm
0:19:24I'm speaking from my experience in Italy, but everything is so fragmented.
0:19:31When you go to one hospital and you got to share data with another hospital, and then
0:19:35when you switch doctors, there's a bunch of paperwork.
0:19:38And it would be great if there was a system, like a unified system that's always with you
0:19:43that you can share directly with your physician and with different institutions.
0:19:49It's a tall order for Apple to do this because it's a mess.
0:19:52bureaucratic point of view it's a mess and I cannot even imagine when you not
0:19:56even when you do it for a single country but when you do it for multiple
0:20:00countries in different continents with different regulations it's you
0:20:05know it's gonna take years but if this this is the kind of route that Apple
0:20:08wants to go down I think it makes total sense to have that kind of integration
0:20:12with the Apple Watch with the iPhone and maybe even with iCloud we don't know but
0:20:17I think there's a you know when you bring together all of these different
0:20:21The Apple Watch being an accessory that's always on you,
0:20:25that can monitor your heart and maybe in the future even more data because of more sensors,
0:20:29that can push you to exercise. And then you collect that data on the iPhone.
0:20:33And then on the iPhone you also have medical data and you have things like medical ID.
0:20:37For example, in case of an emergency and you can share this data with your doctor
0:20:42and you can have reports, you can have statistics over time and you never lose that data.
0:20:47I think that's powerful and that's, you know, we talk about technology as, you know, oh
0:20:52my God, this is a beautiful markdown text editor.
0:20:55So we talk about productivity stuff, but this is the stuff that really has an impact on
0:21:00people.
0:21:01You know, personal health, personal well-being.
0:21:03I think if Apple wants to do this, it's got my total support and I think it's awesome.
0:21:07Also difficult, but, you know, I think if one company can do it, that's Apple.
0:21:13You know this would be one of those things that they announce and then me and you are
0:21:16just like super sad for like two years because we don't get it you know. US only.
0:21:21Yeah. The um you know with our son his long-term care at St. Jude you know
0:21:27that's all at one hospital sometimes the second hospital but they talk really
0:21:30well but even there where his whole history of his cancer treatment isn't
0:21:34under one roof my wife and I still keep a detailed document shared document
0:21:38between us with all of his history and his medication because even within the
0:21:42one institution, sometimes that stuff comes up and it's like you have it all,
0:21:46like why are you asking me for history? You know literally all of it.
0:21:50It always horrifies me if I go for a hospital checkup or something and see
0:21:53like stacks of paperwork and folders and it's like why? Why is it like that?
0:21:58Yeah and so I mean even there you know we have a shared document that we
0:22:03update and keep his medication in and all that stuff so having all
0:22:08that in a way that doesn't involve a Google Doc would be nice.
0:22:14So as of the time that we record today, which is on the 30th of August 2016, just before
0:22:20we began the episode, the European Commission, who have been investigating what they say
0:22:26to be alleged tax issues with Apple and Ireland, has made a ruling. Their ruling is that Apple
0:22:37owes 13 billion euros to the Irish government, and therefore the European Union in a way,
0:22:46for what they call illegal tax breaks that the Irish government gave to Apple.
0:22:54This is extremely complicated, and a lot of this stuff is way over my paygrade of understanding,
0:22:59But I'm going to try and do my best to explain what I can see is happening here.
0:23:06So Ireland is known for maybe in like about 20-30 years ago and since then has been setting
0:23:16up their corporate tax legislation in such a way that it is very enticing for companies
0:23:25to set up offices there.
0:23:27So Apple did this, like many companies have done this over time, set up offices in Ireland,
0:23:32it helped boost the Irish economy and really has kind of pulled them out of some really
0:23:36sticky situations.
0:23:37If a lot of these companies weren't in Ireland, Ireland, like there's a lot of tech companies
0:23:41in Ireland, there's a lot of companies in Ireland, Dropbox have their offices in Ireland
0:23:44for the same kind of reason I believe.
0:23:48There's a lot of great talent there and it's bolstered by the fact that it's really good
0:23:51for companies from a financial perspective to run there and it is really helping the
0:23:56Irish economy. Now the European Commission is saying and is claiming that the Irish government
0:24:03has given Apple like extra breaks which the Irish government and Apple are saying didn't
0:24:12happen and the Irish government is saying they don't want this money. Like they don't
0:24:18want Apple to pay them this 13 billion but the European Commission is insisting that
0:24:23they should because the tax wasn't set up correctly, they won't be in charge correctly
0:24:28and this is back taxes and they want interest on that as well to be paid.
0:24:32There is an open letter on apple.com in all of the European websites today. So if you're
0:24:40in Europe you can see this is from Tim Cook and he's explaining kind of the fact that
0:24:45Apple have put a lot of time and money into Ireland and they've put a lot of people there
0:24:49and because of their Irish base, they employ 1.5 million people across all of Europe.
0:24:54And they are saying that the European Commission is wrong and that this is kind of crazy stuff
0:25:00and it's going to have wide reaching effects. And Tim Cook has mentioned again how like,
0:25:05they're the biggest taxpayer in the US, they're the biggest taxpayer in Europe,
0:25:08they're the biggest taxpayer in the world. They keep kind of going on that and he throws in again
0:25:13about the idea of there being more tax reform and that there needs to be tax reform so money can
0:25:17move more freely around different companies. So this is a horrible mess. And the thing
0:25:23that I find just the most interesting is like, Europe is getting involved in this and is
0:25:29passing a law down to Ireland to say this company owes you money, but the Irish government
0:25:36and Apple are both going to appeal the decision. It's very weird. Again, like not to get too
0:25:42too political, but this is the type of stuff that made people want to leave the European
0:25:46Union. It's these types of rules. It's like the European Commission, because Ireland is
0:25:51part of the EU, is telling Ireland how to run their country. And this is kind of, in
0:25:57a way, I guess the kind of the way it works, because they're all one big thing, but it's
0:26:02just really sticky. And I know that there are a bunch of holes in the stuff that I'm
0:26:06talking about, because I don't understand tax law completely. But that's kind of the
0:26:10the gist of it as I understand it,
0:26:11that there were tax breaks for everyone,
0:26:14they're I guess being changed,
0:26:16and the European Commission is saying
0:26:18that Apple got extra special ones,
0:26:19and everybody's saying that.
0:26:21- Yeah, what I find really interesting in Cook's letter
0:26:25is that he really leans into the fact
0:26:27that this is a very old setup.
0:26:30I mean, he opens the letter 36 years ago,
0:26:32and there's a picture of like 1980 bearded Steve Jobs
0:26:36looking at a workbench of people working.
0:26:38- And it's in black and white.
0:26:39- Yeah, they had color photos then,
0:26:41but you ran it through your Instagram filter
0:26:43to make it look old.
0:26:44He is trying to build the case that, you know,
0:26:49this is, if there was something fishy going on here,
0:26:54like, this has been said for so long
0:26:57that that would have come to light, right?
0:26:59And he is reiterating that we, Apple,
0:27:03has done everything that it's supposed to do,
0:27:06and that this is some sort of like,
0:27:10you know, reaching back into history and saying,
0:27:11"Oh no, you should have done it differently,
0:27:13"and we're going to hold you to a standard
0:27:15"that wasn't set way back then."
0:27:18And you know, that's a little weird,
0:27:21and it's, you know, no doubt it's a lot of money,
0:27:25no doubt Apple could, you know, if it comes to it,
0:27:27Apple's got the money, but I think for Apple,
0:27:29it's more about the statement that it makes,
0:27:31that's the principle.
0:27:32Yeah, we were in an agreement, and it's not like,
0:27:35It would be different if the government of Ireland and Apple disagreed on it, right?
0:27:41If Ireland was suddenly saying, "No, you're right. The European, these new laws, the statement
0:27:47coming down is true, Apple. You do owe us money." But they're not saying that they're
0:27:51in agreement. And that's really what makes it so strange.
0:27:54Now, I don't understand a lot about taxes, but I also kind of understand the position
0:28:01that this can be wrong in the sense that let's assume that I'm friends with the Italian
0:28:05prime minister and like we're personally friends and we're talking over dinner and and he goes like
0:28:11look you want to bring in more maxoris employees in italy i'm gonna give you a discount on taxes
0:28:15and we agree on that but it's not really permitted by law and so even if we have an agreement um
0:28:23because we're friends because i'm bringing jobs i cannot really get a discount on taxes because it's
0:28:28you know everyone pays the same taxes so i don't know now well this is what the european commission
0:28:34is saying has happened, right? Like they are saying that this is what has occurred.
0:28:39Right, there was an illegal state aid to Apple. So I kinda, if that's true, it kinda makes sense,
0:28:48because I get it that you had an agreement, but that agreement is not permitted by law.
0:28:53If that is in fact true. If that is the truth, yes.
0:28:56Because both Apple and the Irish government are saying that isn't true.
0:28:59Which is, I look at these things and I'm like, man.
0:29:03I mean you're saying it and if you're being truthful here great but man if there's like
0:29:08just one little thing you're int-ru-ible. I don't you know I look at these things and I'm like I
0:29:15tell you my my feeling about this is right this has clearly uncovered the fact that the system
0:29:20is broken right there is something wrong with the system maybe it's not to the tune of 13 billion
0:29:26dollars or euros I should say but there is something obviously that people aren't happy
0:29:32happy with tax, the European Commission unhappy with tax. I feel like what this should do,
0:29:38these types of things should spark change. Going backwards and changing stuff isn't right.
0:29:43If the Irish government was saying Apple owed them this money and the European Commission
0:29:49was saying Apple owed them this money, I think I would feel differently about this and say,
0:29:54"Apple, maybe you should pay this money if everyone's saying you owe this." But the fact
0:29:58that the Irish government is saying that it's not owed and it's 13 billion euros.
0:30:02That would really help Ireland.
0:30:05That's where I'm kind of like, maybe.
0:30:07Yeah, but I mean, there could be so many reasons
0:30:11why the Irish government doesn't want money.
0:30:13Now, let's assume the worst case scenario and that the, you know,
0:30:16the Irish government is corrupted and they're taking bribes from Apple
0:30:19not to get the money.
0:30:20Yeah. And they're saying, no, no, no, we don't want the money.
0:30:23It's cool. It's cool.
0:30:23But then another government in 10 years says, look, we should have got the money.
0:30:27Yeah, no, I'm trying to be like paint the perfect picture right with this.
0:30:31You kind of just be like, if this is the case, then maybe we should change tax law going forward,
0:30:37right? Like this is clearly highlighted an issue. But you're right. It could be someone's getting
0:30:42bribed or the Irish government really don't want Apple to leave because of how much money they do
0:30:47make from them. Right. Right. And I feel like that's why the Irish government is going to bat
0:30:53for Apple anyway, not that I'm saying it's illicit, but I feel like that's why they're
0:30:57going to bat for them because they want that relationship to remain.
0:31:02And like Cook says in his article, A, it's a lot of jobs, but B, if this is upheld, then
0:31:10it opens the door for lots of other companies in Ireland and across Europe to be at risk
0:31:18of the same thing, right?
0:31:19So if Apple pays this or if it moves forward, then they can say the same thing to Facebook
0:31:24or Dropbox or Microsoft or any of these other companies that are in Ireland and across Europe
0:31:28saying, "Hey, we know when you moved here, this wasn't the law, but we're going to retroactively
0:31:32tax you for things in the past."
0:31:35That's tricky.
0:31:36That's a slippery slope and it's-
0:31:38Because they probably never would have moved there, right?
0:31:40Yeah.
0:31:41And when it's time to expand, that's not where they're going to expand.
0:31:44And if it's time to move people around, you know where they're going to pull out of.
0:31:48Yes, it's a lot of money into their coffers, but the risk on the side of the European Commission
0:31:55is startlingly high and something that could have drastic effects.
0:32:01If Apple pulls out, someone in the chat room said 6,000 jobs in Cork alone.
0:32:06That's a bunch of people out of work.
0:32:09You know, they're those those employees are caught in between
0:32:12The the company and the country and the Commission and that's that's terrible. I
0:32:18Hope that like whatever this is
0:32:21However, this results like it just works out right like if Apple do owe this money then they should pay it
0:32:26but if they don't owe it like I hope that it just gets fixed because this is clearly like
0:32:30Apple has a lot of
0:32:33spotlight on it right now on them right now about tax stuff.
0:32:37This is clearly a big thing for Tim
0:32:39and his administration now.
0:32:42Everyone is just caring about how much tax money they have.
0:32:45And they've just got a big target on their back
0:32:46because they have all of the profit, right?
0:32:49It's just there.
0:32:50So all of these governments seem like
0:32:52that they're going after them,
0:32:53or these institutions are going after them
0:32:55to pay taxes and stuff like that now, right?
0:32:56Like America wants different tax from them
0:32:59and there's things there,
0:33:00and now Europe wants different tax from them.
0:33:02I just hope that it can get fixed and it looks like it will
0:33:05because I mean eventually,
0:33:07I think a lot of these institutions,
0:33:09they kind of have to give up to the fact
0:33:11of how much money Apple can give them if it's done right.
0:33:13And I think that this stuff just is like the scare tactic
0:33:17to bully them into actually doing something.
0:33:20At least that's my hope
0:33:20because otherwise this is just gonna get real messy.
0:33:23- It wouldn't happen if Federico
0:33:25had been elected vice president
0:33:26of special business over all of Europe.
0:33:28- That is true though.
0:33:29- I just told you.
0:33:30Told you.
0:33:31No, but I bet Federico would have those lunches with Tim like he was going to have with the
0:33:35French Prime Minister and give him...
0:33:37What's the Italian one? Sorry.
0:33:38Sorry, the Italian Prime Minister and give him something. You know, I know that you would
0:33:42do that. That's what the special is in the business.
0:33:45There you go.
0:33:46I'm not sure about that.
0:33:48Talking about dodgy relationships, let's just talk about Spotify and Apple real quick. There
0:33:53was a Bloomberg article that came out earlier this week about how Spotify has been retaliating
0:34:00against musicians who use Apple Music exclusives by making their songs harder to find and they
0:34:06don't feature them and they won't feature them in any of their featured playlists now.
0:34:10So like when Spotify creates those big playlists they're not going to put their songs in there.
0:34:14So let me understand. Spotify's strategy to go against Apple Music is to make Spotify
0:34:18worse by not having the songs people want to listen to? Um, okay.
0:34:24Yes in theory like you can still find it like Spotify is saying they don't tamper with search results, but like
0:34:32Anecdotal evidence is saying that these songs seem to be a bit buried like this is Spotify
0:34:38Trying to throw their weight around right they want to be where the exclusives are I mean
0:34:43And they still have the majority of the users so maybe you don't want to upset them
0:34:48But I think you know Apple has all of the money right they can probably offer more money to these artists
0:34:53as Spotify can for these timed exclusives.
0:34:56- Yeah, I really don't feel like this is a good strategy
0:34:59to use.
0:35:00I mean, I do understand the personal feeling
0:35:04of retaliation against Apple,
0:35:05but from a practical point of view,
0:35:07from a business perspective,
0:35:08not featuring the songs people wanna have on your service,
0:35:11prominently in playlists or in search,
0:35:14it is stupid, honestly.
0:35:15- It is making the product worse,
0:35:17but this is what happens
0:35:19in these company-to-company cold wars.
0:35:21So the Spotify app, this came out like in May, right?
0:35:26Remember the Spotify app got blocked by Apple
0:35:29because they were trying to get people
0:35:30to sign up for their website instead?
0:35:33There has not been an update to the Spotify application
0:35:36since the 23rd of May.
0:35:38That update is still blocked.
0:35:40- I'm on the Spotify test flight,
0:35:42so I get to update with the beta build.
0:35:44But yeah, on the app store, there hasn't been an update.
0:35:46- Maybe still trying to get it through,
0:35:48but Apple won't allow it, right?
0:35:50are still blocking them, it hasn't been updated since May, like this is the fight that they're
0:35:55in right now. And another thing, I think this is way worse than like blocking Frank Ocean
0:36:02and Taylor Swift. If a lesser known artist uses the Beats 1 show to have their music
0:36:09introduced by Zane Lowe, this is also something where these retaliatory practices will kick
0:36:17So if like a new artist gets like that record of the week or the world exclusive, whatever they call that, I can't remember, world track, world music track, I don't know.
0:36:27Always on?
0:36:29Always on, world music track exclusive.
0:36:31Beats one.
0:36:32Beats one.
0:36:33World wide.
0:36:34I think that's what they call it.
0:36:35Yeah, it's a full title, like a bunch of commas and all of these words.
0:36:38It's a complete thought around music.
0:36:40It's a complete hashtag also.
0:36:43I can't wait to do it.
0:36:45Ah, you got it! Ah, I was just setting that one up!
0:36:48Anyway, so if a lesser known artist gets that thing that we just explained and they get played on Beats 1,
0:36:54they will also be buried and not have their music featured.
0:36:58So this is Spotify clearly losing on all grounds of Apple, right?
0:37:01Like everything that they've tried to do is not working because they're not getting what they want.
0:37:06So now they're trying to go from the bottom up.
0:37:09They're now trying to attack the artists to try and attack Apple.
0:37:14It's a messy war and unfortunately as always with these types of things the people that
0:37:18lose out are the consumers and the people that pay for their music for Spotify.
0:37:23I mean at least the stuff's not being held off right?
0:37:26They're not saying it's not going to be in the library but they're just hiding it from
0:37:30you.
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0:41:21So Apple Watch 2 rumors, Stephen would you like to take this away?
0:41:26I would like to take it away.
0:41:27So kind of building on a couple of different stories, we had one a couple weeks ago saying
0:41:34that the Apple Watch 2 would come out and the Apple Watch 1, the current Apple Watch,
0:41:39would be upgraded somehow but stay on sale.
0:41:42And then this report out just a couple days ago has some more detail about what the Apple
0:41:47Watch 2 could bring to the table.
0:41:49So bigger battery, GPS, barometer, bigger batteries in my list twice for some reason
0:41:55I guess we're really excited about that.
0:41:56Bigger battery, bigger, bigger, bigger, right?
0:41:58The more you say it the bigger it gets.
0:42:00And it's the first hardware leak we've had of the Apple Watch.
0:42:04These battery components popped up online.
0:42:07So there's some strategy in play here I think it's fun to talk about because this is the
0:42:12first time we will have had an Apple Watch revision.
0:42:15Really they've added new stuff, new bands and new cases but the first time we've had
0:42:19maybe a new product in this line and it really seems like they're going to do
0:42:23the the iPad thing so the you know is this like revised Apple watch one going
0:42:29to drop below the current prices which as of our recording 38 millimeters $299
0:42:3442 millimeter is $349. Will Apple watch one revision special edition whatever
0:42:43will that fall below that price point so Apple can get in the door cheaper and
0:42:47and compete more directly with Fitbit in that price range.
0:42:50Does the Apple Watch 2 come in more expensive
0:42:54and the Apple Watch 1 is there
0:42:55just to hold those price points?
0:42:56Like, I don't know, does the Apple Watch 1
0:42:59become the zombie iPad 2 that never dies
0:43:02and people get sad that the A5 is still around?
0:43:05I don't know.
0:43:06It's just fun to debate that strategy.
0:43:07So I was curious what you guys thought
0:43:09about what we could see from a strategy perspective
0:43:14with the Apple Watch 2.
0:43:15- Seems like the Apple Watch 2
0:43:16is gonna be the first type of product not to get thinner on a revision. So it sounds
0:43:22like from the rumors we're gonna get the same design but just with more stuff inside. Which
0:43:27I think makes sense, because I really don't need my watch to be thinner at this point,
0:43:31I guess. I also think that having a cheaper watch makes sense for consumers. I don't know
0:43:40if it's the best idea in terms of app ecosystem,
0:43:45in terms of software performance over time,
0:43:47because I mean, we're getting a bunch of nice improvements
0:43:49with watchOS 3, but it still remains a pretty slow device.
0:43:53You know, the S1, the built-in system on a chip,
0:43:57it's not gonna stand the test of time in three to four years
0:44:01and I really don't wanna see a repeat
0:44:02of the iPad 2 situation.
0:44:04So maybe it's just gonna be a stopgap solution,
0:44:08you know, to have an Apple Watch first generation at a discounted price this year,
0:44:13and next year, or maybe in two years, just gonna go away and we'll have an Apple Watch 2 at a discounted price.
0:44:20So I think it makes sense for now for Apple, it makes sense for people like my mom,
0:44:24you know, my mom got a used Apple Watch because she didn't want to pay the full price.
0:44:29So I think it makes total sense to have a cheaper option.
0:44:32I'm just afraid, you know, it's gonna be a problem for apps,
0:44:35But then again, maybe people just don't use that many apps on the watch.
0:44:38Maybe people just use Apple apps and those are gonna be fine with watchOS 3.
0:44:42I think it makes sense.
0:44:44I don't think we're gonna see this applied to the edition model at all.
0:44:50Like, I don't even know if the edition is gonna be available in the Apple Watch 2.
0:44:54I mean, they've already kind of dried up, right?
0:44:56It's hard to get your eyes on one now.
0:44:58Right.
0:44:58I think it's gonna be a one-off thing that Apple did for the first generation model.
0:45:03kind of be a collector's item. I'll get right on that adding it to the collection. Oh god
0:45:09and that's how we said goodbye to Steven. So Federica you said that you don't want your
0:45:15watch to be thinner and I understand that I mean I do but but I want other things more
0:45:24so like I do want to be thinner it could be way thinner this thing is huge right like
0:45:29It could be way thinner than this. I would be very happy if it was. However, I want faster
0:45:34performance and therefore probably better battery. I want all of that instead. I want
0:45:40my watch to be more useful and in the same form factor I'm fine with that. Like I want
0:45:45to be less frustrated with my Apple Watch because when I'm less frustrated with it I
0:45:49use it more and more and I want to keep using it more and more. There are things I want
0:45:52to do on it that can't be done or I try to do and they just fail too many times. I want
0:45:58all of that stuff to be fixed. And if it means that we keep the same form factor for another
0:46:03iteration, I'm happy with that.
0:46:05You know what I'm going to say to unpopular things that I want from the Apple Watch? I
0:46:10want louder speakers.
0:46:12So do I. It's not unpopular. I definitely want that. Because I take calls on mine and
0:46:16it's ridiculous.
0:46:17Yeah, exactly. Hold on. But I also want a camera. And I'll tell you why. I don't want
0:46:21a selfie camera. I want a camera I can point and, you know, capture things from my hand.
0:46:27I want a camera on my hand all the time.
0:46:29And I feel like--
0:46:30- What are you creeping?
0:46:32- No, no, not at all.
0:46:33Actually for the opposite scenario.
0:46:35Like you're, you know, in any kind of emergency situation,
0:46:39you gotta take a picture without taking out your phone
0:46:41or reaching for your phone,
0:46:42or you wanna show something to someone in a hurry.
0:46:46I think having a camera always on you, not with you,
0:46:49but on you could be just as important as having,
0:46:52you know, the SOS feature of watchOS 3, for example.
0:46:56So I understand that but I want a camera they can't give me.
0:46:59I want a camera that's good. If they're going to put one on here,
0:47:03I want it to be able to take a decent picture,
0:47:05which it's just not going to be able to do initially.
0:47:08The camera's going to be horrific.
0:47:10Sure. And maybe it's just going to be a face 10 camera, but you know.
0:47:13That's, that's why I think that if they do ever put a camera on this thing,
0:47:17like in its first iteration, it will be a selfie camera,
0:47:21like a FaceTime calling camera because the camera technology will be not good.
0:47:26to fit into that package. - Yeah, agreed.
0:47:28Agreed.
0:47:29The thinness is something that I only think about
0:47:32if I'm wearing like a long sleeve dress shirt
0:47:34and it's a little bit bulky, but I think that, you know,
0:47:38if it comes to like thinness or band compatibility,
0:47:42I think I want band compatibility for another year.
0:47:45- I still think it can make it thinner
0:47:46and still have band compatibility though.
0:47:48- I mean, to a degree, I mean, looking at the side of it,
0:47:50there's definitely, you know, they could taper
0:47:52of the little Airstream trailer off the edges but I don't know the what's more
0:47:59interesting to me is the the potential for things like the GPS and better
0:48:04battery life you know I I don't if I go for a bike ride or a walk or something I
0:48:13always take my phone as well so GPS on the watch won't solve the use case for
0:48:20me that you know someone may need to get a hold of me or I may need to get a hold
0:48:24of somebody. Especially bike riding like accidents happen people can get hurt and
0:48:28it's important to have the ability to call somebody or call 911 or or at the
0:48:33very least like have you know someone with find my friends could open it and
0:48:37see where I am if I am you know late getting home or something like that and
0:48:42so for me the watch GPS doesn't solve that but it would be nice for it to be
0:48:48able to track if you don't care about any of that stuff you just want to go for a run
0:48:52and you want you know Nike Fitness or MapMyRide or MapMyRun or whatever the current popular
0:48:59one is.
0:49:00RideMyMap.
0:49:01RideMyMap, Strava.
0:49:021, 2, 3, RunTracker.
0:49:031, 2, 3, RunTracker is by far the best editor's choice in the app store.
0:49:09Yeah, PimpMyRun also.
0:49:10Yep, that's the Federico version.
0:49:13Wow.
0:49:15go out running Gucci shoes. You're going to need to call 911 at the end of that.
0:49:22So having all of that sort of stuff on the watch is really compelling and so I'm looking
0:49:29forward to it but if the only difference between the one and the two is GPS and maybe not speed,
0:49:35you know, if the speed was the same, I think I'd probably skip it but I assume that the
0:49:40two is going to be drastically faster with better battery life and as good as watchOS
0:49:45is on existing hardware it would only be better on something that is is faster
0:49:50in of itself. I'm really unsure about upgrading like they're like I've got the
0:49:55stainless steel one I like it I'm very curious as to how they're gonna sell
0:50:01upgrading to someone like me like the GPS isn't a deal breaker. A faster chip
0:50:06is all I need to upgrade like telling me the watch is gonna be faster more
0:50:10capable that's the kind of the barrier to buying for me that's
0:50:15kind of the main thing that I want to see. Like we're saying
0:50:19about better battery life we don't need that like because the
0:50:22battery life is great but you need it if it gets more powerful
0:50:24right so that those two things need to go together I think.
0:50:27And more importantly you need more battery if you want to have
0:50:29a watch that's always on right because you want to have a watch
0:50:33face that's on all the time. Even in a low power kind of
0:50:36fashion like Android Wear does.
0:50:38I'm not even expecting that that's a thing that they're going to give me, but it's something I really, really want.
0:50:43I don't think it's going to be this thing.
0:50:45I mean, so much of the appeal of wearing a watch is the fact that people are able to look at your watch face, right?
0:50:50Whether the design, the colors, and right now you're just wearing a screen that's turned off all the time.
0:50:56So sure, people can look at the steel, at the chrome, people can look at the bands,
0:51:02but looking at the watch face, it's a whole other story.
0:51:04So if you want to have a watch face that's always on, you're going to need more battery.
0:51:07and GPS seems pretty much a given at this point.
0:51:10I also heard from a reader a few weeks ago, and I'm not sure if this is still the case,
0:51:15but apparently at WWDC, Apple announced that even on the Watch 1,
0:51:22thanks to iOS 10 and WatchOS 3, you were able to go for a run,
0:51:29and even without GPS, the watch was able to track your run without having to carry the iPhone with you.
0:51:36And the feature was working up until beta 3, beta 4.
0:51:40And then according to this person, I haven't tried because I didn't have the time,
0:51:44the feature was removed.
0:51:45So my interpretation is GPS is coming to the Apple Watch 2,
0:51:49but they don't want to have the Watch 1 to kind of have a workaround for that
0:51:53to make the feature even more exclusive for the Watch 2.
0:51:56I don't know if this person was correct.
0:51:58I don't know if the feature came back.
0:52:00But this person was really upset because he told me
0:52:02this was one of the best features of Watch OS 3 and iOS 10,
0:52:05And now it's gone because they assume Apple wants to make it exclusive to the Watch 2 with native GPS.
0:52:10Well they will enjoy the Watch 2 a lot then.
0:52:13I guess this person.
0:52:14It was really... I mean it's a great feature, you know, if you're a runner I can imagine you go out with your Watch,
0:52:20you sing some music, you don't have to carry your iPhone on an ARP band with you.
0:52:24And I mean it does sound convenient, honestly.
0:52:27I would be very upset if the bands don't work with the new Watch.
0:52:32I don't think they're gonna do that, I think it'd be crazy but I'd be very upset.
0:52:36No, bands are the new lightning connector. They gotta stay compatible for several years.
0:52:42I agree with that and I think especially if you're gonna be introducing them regularly
0:52:46with the intention for people to build up a collection, then people are still gonna buy them
0:52:52anyway, you don't need to obsolete them. So I hope that's the case. My only real concern now,
0:52:58and this is something that Jason mentioned on upgrade is the idea of like if they just keep the sport as
0:53:04the watch one and
0:53:08Then the watch two is the other models. Yeah, so the soul is the cheap one, but then
0:53:13What if I can only buy stainless steel, which I don't like that would be that would be upsetting to me
0:53:20What would you what do you mean? I don't follow
0:53:23So let's say they kept the sport around that's a cheap one and didn't make a new sport model
0:53:28and maybe they made it another stainless steel model which was the watch 2. No I
0:53:34don't think I agree that the if the Apple watch one stays around it would
0:53:39only be in the aluminum but I think that the aluminum is is I mean it's got to be
0:53:44the most popular one by far so I don't see them leaving that behind I think
0:53:48that Apple watch 2 would also be in aluminum and I mean when the iPad 2
0:53:53stayed around it looked more or less like the iPad 3 and 4 right like those
0:53:58that I don't think that's new territory for them to break into so I completely
0:54:02hope that you're correct I don't think your concern is is something that you
0:54:06should stay up a night ever okay thank you sleep sleep sleep well my friend I
0:54:12can now now I can sleep easy somebody wrote in robust and said do you think
0:54:17that Apple will sell Apple watch 2 without a band or bracelet for people
0:54:22that already have bought bands. What do you think?
0:54:28I don't know. Maybe you could sell it without a band for people who want to use it as a
0:54:31necklace.
0:54:32No, but like people that already have the bands, right? We have a bunch of bands.
0:54:37I think it makes sense, but it seems un-Apple in the implementation, kind of. I mean, maybe
0:54:44not, because it would be kind of like a Mac Mini. You just buy the "computer", quote-unquote.
0:54:50I mean in a good way, not in terms of updates, but like the Mac Mini in the sense that you
0:54:55just buy the CPU, the thing, and then you've got to connect all of the different accessories.
0:55:02I don't think it's too absurd.
0:55:03It'd just be weird to buy a watch without bands.
0:55:06I mean, think about how weird it would look on the box.
0:55:11Like just a screen, just a square?
0:55:13I don't see them.
0:55:15I see what the question is getting to, but I think they're going to sell it with bands
0:55:20for everyone.
0:55:21And honestly, I bought mine, my stainless steel with the black sport band, and I've
0:55:27bought several since then.
0:55:28Like the white sport band, which is my favorite, it's kind of grungy and gross, and I actually
0:55:32have a little nick in it.
0:55:33So if I had to buy it with a watch band again, I'd probably do it with the white one, so
0:55:36I can refresh that one and retire the old one.
0:55:40Yeah, I don't think they're going to do this.
0:55:43I just thought it was an interesting thought experiment at least.
0:55:47So we're expecting the Apple Watch 2 to be announced next week, come out in October,
0:55:53let's say, alongside WatchOS 3 maybe.
0:55:57And then, so we're in 2016, we're gonna see a new Apple Watch in 2018?
0:56:02That's the idea, every two years?
0:56:05Maybe.
0:56:06I think so.
0:56:07I mean, what kind of schedule does the Apple Watch have?
0:56:09Well, I think the initial schedule was skewed because they announced it kind of off kilter
0:56:15And then they released it at a weird point and then they had to go around a little bit longer
0:56:19It's like the iPad pros are gonna be like this, right?
0:56:21They were like they were debuted in September and they won't get updated until like March
0:56:27Right like so I think that it's gonna be that kind of thing
0:56:31I think they might go yearly with it
0:56:33Maybe at least initially whilst there's still a bunch of stuff that they can add on a relatively quick cycle
0:56:39you know maybe.
0:56:41Naughty?
0:56:43Steven you have a dilemma is what our document says.
0:56:47It is true. So my wife is on her second
0:56:51Fitbit HR which they actually just announced the replacement for
0:56:55yesterday. It's the Fitbit's got the heart rate sensor, got the little screen in it
0:56:59and she has had
0:57:03the first one failed, it would stop syncing and basically it would act
0:57:07crazy it would lose time and add time and just like vibrate endlessly and so
0:57:12connected to Fitbit they replaced it no questions asked and her second one is
0:57:16starting to show the same symptoms of what I have dubbed Fitbit madness where
0:57:21they just start to lose their minds a little bit and so she's frustrated with
0:57:26it which is understandable and I suggested to her is like well you know
0:57:31maybe we replace it with an Apple watch because she really likes that the
0:57:36Fitbit HR shows you who's calling. So if her phone is in her bag or you know
0:57:40somewhere else in the house she can see who's calling and she likes that
0:57:44and she liked the idea of being able to see iMessages the same way. And so she
0:57:50is pretty interested in the the 38 millimeter sport Apple Watch and now is
0:57:57a really terrible time to buy probably unless the old Apple Watch stays around.
0:58:00And you see these things going on sale. So Apple got the price a while
0:58:05back earlier this week I think still Best Buy has them for like $60 less than
0:58:11Apple's list price. Best Buy does this sometimes to bring people in the store
0:58:15and sell you their fancy warranty but it's tempting there as well. She doesn't
0:58:20really care about GPS we talked through that and she has the same concerns that
0:58:25I do that you can't make a phone call still there's no way to like really know
0:58:29I don't think unless they're doing something crazy that I can't foresee
0:58:34see that this is gonna be part of finding my friends,
0:58:37that that is still all tied to the iPhone
0:58:39'cause it has a data connection.
0:58:41And so she has the same concerns I do,
0:58:42that GPS isn't quite enough for her
0:58:44to leave her phone behind on a run.
0:58:46And so she's not particularly interested in GPS either.
0:58:52And so I've been debating, you know,
0:58:54do I wait and see, which is what I'm going to do,
0:58:58it's not really a real debate,
0:58:59I'm gonna wait and see what Apple does
0:59:00and if the Watch One comes down in price
0:59:04or they replace it.
0:59:05If they replace it, then surely something else,
0:59:09you know, somebody else like Best Buy
0:59:10or somebody else will take even more off
0:59:12and I'll just get a one on sale if that's what she wants.
0:59:15But I just found it interesting that after two years,
0:59:17she has started thinking about it right at the time
0:59:21of potential new watches.
0:59:24And so I will be watching what they do with the old ones
0:59:27very keenly and seeing if they will
0:59:32do anything with the old ones,
0:59:34I really think they're gonna come down in price.
0:59:35I think they've gotta compete with the $199 Fitbit area.
0:59:40And if that means buying a new watch,
0:59:42then I think that's fine for a lot of people.
0:59:44So I guess we'll see.
0:59:46It's a pseudo dilemma, really, not a real dilemma.
0:59:48- And the same kind of thing,
0:59:50and I don't know what it would take Adina to upgrade hers.
0:59:53Like I don't know if she has any interest
0:59:54in doing it, really.
0:59:56And I don't think that any of the features that I want,
0:59:58she would care about enough to actually change it.
1:00:00- Yeah.
1:00:02'Cause if you're not using a lot of apps,
1:00:03and if you're using it for fitness tracking,
1:00:06and you're using it for like incoming notifications.
1:00:08- And having your calendar on your watch face
1:00:10kind of stuff, you know?
1:00:11- The speed isn't that big of a deal.
1:00:14Like, I have gotten even less angsty about the speed
1:00:19because I've just stopped using apps on it.
1:00:21Like, it is for notifications and fitness,
1:00:24and it's fine for that.
1:00:26- And watchOS 3 is probably gonna make it a lot better.
1:00:30- Yeah, and that's the other side of this coin, right?
1:00:32That WatchOS 3 on introducing hardware is faster,
1:00:36and does it cross that threshold into acceptable usage?
1:00:41It may, and definitely for somebody
1:00:43who's not gonna use it heavily,
1:00:45then I think it would definitely be more than fine.
1:00:47What I think's gonna happen is WatchOS 3
1:00:49is going to extend the life of the original Apple Watch,
1:00:53not make it shorter, right?
1:00:55People complain that new iOS updates run slower
1:00:58on older hardware and that's true sometimes and that sort of forces them
1:01:02to update right so iOS 7 comes out and everybody with the iPhone 3GS or
1:01:06whatever has to update. Definitely happens. I think the opposite is gonna
1:01:12happen here where the watch one is so much better all of a sudden on watch OS
1:01:183 then people will be happy just to update their software and get another
1:01:24year out of it. It's an interesting change, but something that I think will satisfy a
1:01:30lot of people for another 12 or 18 months.
1:01:34Should we take a break?
1:01:37Let's take a break.
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1:03:54Mark Gurman has been on fire recently, posting many, many, many things and he surprised us
1:04:01all yesterday with some news about the refreshments, the upcoming refreshments to the Mac lineup
1:04:06and the iPad lineup as well.
1:04:10So I want to break this down into the two different sections that Mark touched on.
1:04:14We'll start off with the iPad.
1:04:17Starts off with, and Federico I know this is important to you, Apple may roll out the
1:04:22new iPad software features, so this may increase iPad software, doesn't give any details on
1:04:28what they might be really, as part of an upgrade to the iOS operating system in the first half
1:04:33of 2017, or save the enhancements for the next major iOS version later in the year.
1:04:39I say spring or get the fudge out. That's how I feel. If we don't get these feet, if we have to wait until September for this stuff, I will be a very unhappy bunny.
1:04:49I mean, last time I heard the plan was to, and I wrote this on McStories, the plan was to kind of split up iOS 10 and iPhone stuff in September and iPad stuff in the spring.
1:04:59And it seems like Gurman heard the same thing, but he has the addition of, which seems like maybe a backup, you know, one of those backup plans that you gotta have in an article like this.
1:05:08- Hedging your bets, you could say.
1:05:10- Exactly, if it doesn't come out next spring,
1:05:12it's gonna be in iOS 11.
1:05:14But it's definitely at least some pockets of people
1:05:19within Apple have shared with other people,
1:05:22not just me, but I'm pretty sure Jason heard the same,
1:05:25that was the plan to kind of have iPhone in September
1:05:28and give more time to engineers and designers
1:05:31to work on iPad stuff for spring to make it coincide
1:05:34with an iPad event, with new iPads,
1:05:36and maybe with like last year, maybe there could be a reveal of iOS 10.2, 10.3 in January
1:05:45to have like an open beta so developers can adapt and then have a public reveal and public
1:05:50launch in March or April. I think it makes sense, but German doesn't go into the details
1:05:54really of what these software features for the iPad could be. I mean, it does mention
1:05:58the Apple Pencil, which I know Myke, you have a few thoughts on.
1:06:02The planned iPad update will include improvements to the Apple Pencil, a handwriting and drawing
1:06:06style is aimed at professionals, according to one of the people. Apple has considered
1:06:10allowing users to annotate objects in many applications across the whole operating system,
1:06:14including in Mail, Safari, iMessage, similar to what Samsung offers on its Note smartphones,
1:06:19the person said. Currently, Apple only supports pencil functionality in specifically developed
1:06:23apps.
1:06:24I do have lots of thoughts on this. I think that this and the early testing of this and
1:06:28the attempted implementation of this is what broke pencil input in the previous betas in
1:06:34in the, what beta was that?
1:06:36Was it iOS 9, wasn't it?
1:06:37So this was, was it release versions?
1:06:40Honey--
1:06:41- 9.3.
1:06:42- 9.3, the beta's for 9.3, thank you Federico.
1:06:45And that eventually came back, Apple said they were working
1:06:47on some stuff and that's why, and now it's blah blah blah.
1:06:51So I don't think that this additional feature
1:06:55would stop the input that I've been using
1:06:59and many of us use because I don't think
1:07:00they wanna get into that again.
1:07:02I think that there's two likelihoods here.
1:07:05I think the least likely would be that there is some kind of software button
1:07:08that you hit
1:07:10in the OS. This could maybe be in Control Center or I thought that
1:07:14maybe it could be
1:07:15in the split view, like you slide over to split view, you hit this button
1:07:18and it freezes the UI and you're then able to draw on it or take notes on it, that
1:07:22kind of thing.
1:07:23But what I actually think it's going to be
1:07:25is a new pencil which has a button on it
1:07:28and when you hit that button you can mark up whatever's on the screen.
1:07:32And the reason I think this is because it allows Apple to sell more pencils to the next
1:07:37upgrades of the iPad and it will keep that ASP up.
1:07:41I think there's going to be all new function, like so I think we're going to see a smart
1:07:45keyboard with the function row, not the touch screen one, but just like a general function
1:07:50row.
1:07:51So I think with every update there will be new peripherals, like updates to the peripherals
1:07:55as well because it keeps the ASP up. I think that's what Apple care about because if they
1:08:00had the same pencil and the same keyboard, I'm just buying the iPad and I think they
1:08:04want everyone to buy a whole new suite of products every single time. Am I crazy?
1:08:09It could be. No, it could be. I mean, they could even justify the new pencil model with,
1:08:13I don't know, reduced latency, you know, like a better recognition of touches, whatever,
1:08:18better pressure sensitivity. They could bundle up other features in addition to, you know,
1:08:22special market mode. I do wonder if Apple is institutionally against the idea of having a button on a pencil,
1:08:30if only because of that beautiful white polished design.
1:08:33Well, it could be on the top, and it wouldn't really change much.
1:08:37Definitely interesting when you consider that Apple has been prototyping different versions of the pencil,
1:08:43one with their eraser. They definitely played around with an iPad cover with the pencil holder.
1:08:49So there's been a lot of tests within Apple to kind of have, to kind of reimagine the idea of a pencil and to kind of make it more part of the iPad with more versatility over the past few years.
1:09:02And I think it'll be interesting to see kind of what Apple lands on for the next iPad Pro and the next Apple Pencil, if they think maybe having a button at this point is as, you know, a safe, you know, it's the good idea.
1:09:17I think it makes sense to have special annotation modes in different apps,
1:09:23especially when you consider that the iPad is being used more and more in the enterprise
1:09:29to be able to mark up PDFs, to be able to mark up Safari web pages, and to kind of move more
1:09:35naturally between touch input and pencil input with the special mode. I think it makes sense.
1:09:41But I also want to see more integration between the way that you carry the iPad around, because right now it's already fragmented, right?
1:09:50You gotta put the iPad with the Smart Cover, then you gotta remember the Pencil, there's a risk that you're gonna use the Pencil Tip, you're gonna lose the Pencil Cap.
1:09:57I think there needs to be a better way to carry the Pencil around.
1:10:01And I also do wonder, this is unrelated to the Pencil, but I also do wonder if eventually we're gonna have some kind of 3D touch on the iPad Pro.
1:10:10iPad Pro. German doesn't mention 3D touch at all. He mentions faster displays, which to me sounds like maybe we're gonna get a resolution bump and maybe we're gonna get, like I said, reduced latency because when he mentions faster displays, he means the pencil performance is gonna be even better than it is right now.
1:10:28So that sounds great, but will we ever get 3D touch?
1:10:31Now, I've heard from quite a few people that there were all kinds of iPad prototypes with 3D touch,
1:10:38but the main question is, it's a problem of ergonomics really.
1:10:44How do you apply pressure on an iPad, on a smart cover, without risking making it fall over the table?
1:10:49And there's all kinds of differences between the iPhone and the iPad.
1:10:54It's the same reason why even if technically a race to wake in iOS 10 could have worked on the iPad,
1:11:00it doesn't really make much sense because how do you race an iPad on a desk to turn it on?
1:11:05So there are these ergonomical differences between the iPhone and the iPad you gotta keep in mind.
1:11:11And I think it especially makes sense for 3D Touch to have this kind of drawing a line on the sand and saying,
1:11:18and saying, "OK, 3D Touch is iPhone only."
1:11:21But as we're seeing with iOS 10,
1:11:23there's going to be a lot more features dependent
1:11:27or at least made better by 3D Touch.
1:11:30So the fact that you don't have those features on the iPad
1:11:33kind of makes the experience worse
1:11:35because you can 3D Touch on Control Center
1:11:37when you cannot do the same on the iPad.
1:11:38You can 3D Touch notifications on the phone
1:11:40while you cannot do the same on the iPad, you gotta swipe.
1:11:42And I know, Myke, that you're no fan of the swipe
1:11:45to expand notifications.
1:11:46- Don't like it.
1:11:48Exactly. So eventually there has to be some kind of way to replicate 3D touch on the iPad.
1:11:56And a few people say, "Well, that's going to be pressure sensitivity with the pencil."
1:11:59Well, it's not an optimal solution because the pencil, again, is going to be something that you use to annotate, to draw.
1:12:07Because you've got to understand, Myke, that Q and CGP Grey, I think, are in the minority of people who use the pencil for navigation.
1:12:13I totally understand what you do, but I don't think it's the majority of people who use a pencil that way.
1:12:18So, I wonder, basically I wonder, that's what I do, I sit down and wonder.
1:12:23I just want to touch on why you said that minority, I agree, but we are a vocal minority.
1:12:29Yes you are, yes you are, as we've seen you are.
1:12:32Very vocal. Yeah, I agree with you, there's got to be something there, but I don't know what it is.
1:12:37There's also a rumor, and we haven't mentioned this yet until now, but Germin's now talking about it.
1:12:43talking about it. And I don't think it's coming from the same sources. He's quoting, is it
1:12:48Ming, I can't say, is it Ming-Ji Kuo? I'm gonna go with.
1:12:53Maybe Ming-Ji Kuo?
1:12:55Ming-Ji Kuo, I think. And who did he write for? He's an analyst, right?
1:12:59He's an analyst.
1:13:00Ming-Ji Kuo, I'm gonna go with. And they have spoken about a 10.5 inch iPad Pro as a rumor.
1:13:09And I've been thinking about this, like why would they do a 10.5 inch iPad Pro?
1:13:14So we have a 9.7, a 10.5 and a 12.9, that's insane.
1:13:18So I've been thinking about this and the way that I've settled upon this is that the 9.7
1:13:23is kept for the Air model going forward and 10.5 and 12.9 become the Pro sizes.
1:13:30So they actually have two sizes of Pro, they have the regular one and the mini.
1:13:34And the reason I think they might do this is 10.5 inches, whilst it's not a lot bigger,
1:13:39it will allow for bigger keyboards, software and hardware, which would be nicer,
1:13:43and just that little bit more extra space on the screen for split view and stuff like that.
1:13:47So 10.5, 12.9, okay.
1:13:49And I think they won't do a 9.7 anymore.
1:13:52Federico, what do you think?
1:13:55I don't think the 9.7 format, you know, it's gonna stay on the Pro line.
1:14:00I think going slightly bigger for the Small Pro makes more sense.
1:14:04Again, especially when you consider split view and, you know,
1:14:08the software keyboard with the shortcut bar, having just a little more space helps.
1:14:14I don't know if the iPad mini is going to stay around, honestly, because it feels like
1:14:19it's really being cannibalized by the bigger iPhones and it seems like the iPad is moving
1:14:28more towards a pro-sumer, if you will, scenario.
1:14:35I don't know.
1:14:36Yeah, I don't know about that. I think this too, but then I also think to myself there's
1:14:41probably also a strong chance that the iPad mini is the biggest selling iPad. Like I agree
1:14:45with you, that's how I feel. Like Adina has an iPad mini and I think it's ridiculous.
1:14:50Like it's basically the size of the phone, but she loves it and I really wonder because
1:14:55it's the cheapest and it's small and it's probably really easy for kids. Steven, is
1:14:59that right?
1:15:00Yeah, I mean we've got a mini that the kids use and it's nice for that. My big problem
1:15:06with the the theory is are you going to strand like is the 9.7 Pro that we have
1:15:13now is that it's going to be stranded in time like the one and that's sort of
1:15:18weird right because they made such a huge deal when they announced it that 9.7
1:15:21is the ideal size for an iPad so we had to bring the Pro features to this size
1:15:26you know it and it's not like they haven't done three sizes stuff like that
1:15:3012, 15, and 17 inch powerbooks, but 10.5 and 9.7 are really close. I don't think
1:15:38you'd be able to pick them out. No, and maybe those size differences
1:15:43are inherently more noticeable on the iPad than they were on the powerbooks
1:15:47because of the touch deal, right? You're touching the glass the whole time so
1:15:52any additional size feels better. But I kind of think this whole thing
1:15:57thing comes down to like there's some sort of weird misunderstanding in the
1:16:00supply chain and this rumor and I don't I just don't know if they're gonna do it.
1:16:05That said like you know I went from the 12.9 to the 9.7 and I said on MacPower
1:16:11users a couple weeks ago that like I could kind of get behind an iPad Pro in
1:16:17between the two sizes but it seems like it's awfully messy if they're gonna do
1:16:22all three it seems like it's messy if the Pro gets a little bit bigger and
1:16:27then the 9.7 becomes the error 3 or I think more likely the 9.7 would go away.
1:16:32Yeah just disappear. But so like there's a lot of weirdness in there I don't think
1:16:36there's any I don't think there's any clean way this gets done but uh you know
1:16:43who knows it just seems right now I write it off as like some numbers got
1:16:48weird somewhere or somebody measured the back case and not the screen or like
1:16:51something is is off somewhere in this in this story. Let's talk about the Mac. I
1:16:58remember that. Hello Macintosh updates coming as soon as October is what what
1:17:05was being said by German. A part of the line so he's talking about a big line
1:17:10refresh and he mentions new iMacs with USB C and the option to have better AMD
1:17:16graphics chips. Mentions the MacBook Pro which we'll get to in a moment but also
1:17:21a USB-C MacBook Air. Shocking. What? What? I don't understand. So my only
1:17:31thought about why the MacBook Air may still be alive is, so the thought was the
1:17:37MacBook Pro is going to get so much thinner and lighter it's gonna kind of be like a
1:17:39MacBook Air and so the MacBook Air doesn't need to exist anymore. If the
1:17:45current thinking I think is that the MacBook Pro, this new one, is not going
1:17:49be tapered it's going to be a little thinner and a little bit lighter but
1:17:52it's not really going to be a MacBook Air territory yet and so if you really
1:17:56want it then and light you're stuck with the MacBook which is running the core M5
1:18:00you know processor the much slower processor. With the MacBook Air you can
1:18:04get an i5 or an i7 you get a loaded MacBook Air speed wise it's a pretty
1:18:08good machine and removing the MacBook Air would leave a gap in between and I
1:18:15think that the MacBook Air is extremely popular I see them I see MacBook Air is
1:18:18just everywhere it seems and to remove it without having something that really
1:18:24fits the the spot in the lineup that it held may be a little weird and so my
1:18:30thought is now that the MacBook Pro is and the MacBook Air will kind of keep
1:18:35the same relationship they've always had yes the air is thinner and lighter but
1:18:38still really powerful the MacBook is like if you want thin and light and
1:18:41don't care about anything else and the MacBook Pro is I need all the power I
1:18:44can get to go and so I think the relationship between the three will
1:18:48stick around. I do think that if they update to USB-C that that's got to be
1:18:52the last one. Like I think that that we are getting much closer to the end of
1:18:56the Map of Gar's life than the beginning of it but maybe the end is just not here
1:19:01quite yet. And what's interesting as we've been recording actually this just
1:19:06popped up there's a link over on the verges in the show notes and tells
1:19:11announced Kirby Lake which is the successor to Skylake which is the CPU
1:19:15family that Apple more or less skipped. What we've been waiting on are Skylake
1:19:20MacBook Pros and now if they announce Skylake MacBook Pros I'm gonna be really
1:19:26sad because now what is it Kaby Lake is out so maybe they're gonna go
1:19:34with this instead of the Skylake maybe they're skipping Skylake completely who
1:19:38knows I will leave the processor talk to ATP they do a really good job
1:19:41breaking down the differences and why we should care. It's all a little bit over
1:19:45my head but clearly it's time right that it is time. I don't think we're going to
1:19:52see Mac shipping before Sierra. We're going to get to that in a minute with
1:19:55the MacBook Pro but so what do they do? I guess that's the question right? Do they
1:20:00announce MacBooks, Pros and iMacs and whatever at the event and say hey
1:20:06they're going to be shipping in four weeks with Sierra? They could totally do
1:20:11that there's a long history of that Apple saying we got new Macs gonna ship
1:20:14next month they've done it for years and years and years and I think that if
1:20:19Apple is only going to have one event they should do it in the event especially
1:20:23the MacBook Pro if it's gonna get the overhaul that everyone says it's going
1:20:27to get it a little too big for press like you know individual press meetings
1:20:33like they'll invite somebody like Jason down and they'll show him the machine he
1:20:36gets to write about it at an embargo and so does the virgin and gadget everybody
1:20:39else. If the MacBook Pro has all these new features why not give it stage time?
1:20:45It's your most popular computer, it's the one that there's a lot of pent-up
1:20:49demand for. I mean I don't know, I mean it is wild to me the number of people I
1:20:55know in the creative space that are not even nerds, like they don't listen to
1:21:00this show but they they make video or they or they're photographers like they
1:21:05work and they all need new MacBook Pros and they've all been waiting for new
1:21:09MacBook Pros. I talked to a guy this past week, he's running a mid-2010 MacBook Pro
1:21:13and he's like "I was going to update this year and they never came out." And so he's
1:21:16just waiting. Like, there is demand for these things so why not give the people what they
1:21:20want. Even if it's not shipping today, that's fine. Say "Hey, you can put your pre-orders
1:21:24in or, you know, at the end of the month they're going to ship in these configs and these prices."
1:21:29And I don't know, it's exhausting waiting for a new MacBook Pro.
1:21:33I don't follow Mac stuff, but from my perspective, especially if this new computer has a programmable
1:21:41keyboard row, to give an embargo to the press and to let the press know that there's an
1:21:48SDK addition that developers gotta work with, it's weird.
1:21:53And just because there's a programmable keyboard row and developers need to update their apps
1:21:59take advantage of those functions, it makes total sense to me to have a, even, you know,
1:22:05like 20 minutes on stage, Apple goes out, shows his new computer, says, "And by the
1:22:09way, developers, you can now check the Sierra pre-release docs because there's an API to
1:22:14take advantage of the function row." And just like the deal with the MacBook and Force Touch,
1:22:1820 minutes on stage, there's a developer SDK, go out, check it out, but it comes from Apple
1:22:23on stage. It doesn't come from, and you know, total respect, but it doesn't come from JS
1:22:28and six colors that says, "Oh, by the way, there's an SDK, you should go check it out."
1:22:32You know, it just seems odd to have the...
1:22:36You know, you could call it a developer feature and to have bloggers and the tech press take
1:22:43care of that.
1:22:44I don't know.
1:22:45It doesn't sit right with me.
1:22:46But more than that, even, like just from a fundamental level, you're making a big change
1:22:50to a product line.
1:22:52You're adding this new feature that's never existed before.
1:22:55Exactly.
1:22:56I mean, I don't know.
1:22:57makes total sense to me to have it on stage. I'm like going against it like yeah everybody's
1:23:02saying it's not happening it's not happening I just think they're not shipping until October
1:23:06like I think they're gonna have them on stage next week I do want to go back real quick
1:23:10to the MacBook Air because putting USB-C on it will they put a retina screen in it? No.
1:23:17They're gonna ship new Macs without retina screens in them in 2016? I think that the
1:23:22the MacBook Air is the cheap one. So why? I don't know. I mean I don't see him doing
1:23:28it. I think that muddies the water a little bit. In some real time, follow up real quick,
1:23:34this is the problem when you talk about things that are happening as you record. It seems
1:23:38like the Intel announcement may just be for low powered stuff. So only for something that
1:23:43would be like in the MacBook. These chips may not be available for the MacBook Pro class
1:23:48machine yet.
1:23:49Yeah, aimed at laptops and 2-in-1s.
1:23:52Yeah, so Apple's not doing any of that stuff,
1:23:54except in the MacBook.
1:23:55So all that aside, the conversation
1:23:58of what's going on with the Mac line
1:23:59has lots of open threads right now.
1:24:02And Apple needs to take time not only to release new products,
1:24:05but I think there is a genuine concern on the part of Mac
1:24:10enthusiasts-- and I know that I'm the only one here.
1:24:12Yo, what's up?
1:24:14Hey, that they're still paying attention, right?
1:24:17'cause you had all this noise around the MacBook.
1:24:19You had that great article,
1:24:22I think it was in Mashable with Phil Schiller
1:24:24and all these hardware people about the MacBook,
1:24:26like we designed the antennas to work around the speakers
1:24:29and we did all this cross team,
1:24:34cross knowledge type stuff
1:24:36to build the best computer we could build.
1:24:38And that was great and there's been nothing since.
1:24:41And I think there was some excitement around that machine,
1:24:44there was excitement around the Retina iMac two years ago.
1:24:46I still want one, but it's been really quiet for a long time, and I have no doubt the Apple,
1:24:55like I truly believe the Mac is still important to Apple.
1:24:58I think it is especially important to somebody like Phil Schiller.
1:25:00It seems like that's his sort of first love a little bit.
1:25:05Like you're not supposed to have a favorite child, but he kind of secretly does, it seems.
1:25:09I don't think the Mac is going out to pasture anytime soon, but I think there are people
1:25:14who sort of feel like that may be true or feel that you know they make their like I
1:25:19feel this way a little bit like I make my living on the Mac. Myke you do too really.
1:25:25Yeah the Mac is important to me like yeah but it's just not my preferred operating system
1:25:29it's not my preferred platform but it's the one that like I hate to say this like I'm
1:25:33stuck with it. Yeah high praise from Myke. I like it but like I wish I could do everything
1:25:39on the machines that I like most but right now like I don't want to do that like I've
1:25:43I've spoken about this many times.
1:25:44So I'm stuck with the Mac, so whilst I'm stuck with it,
1:25:47I want the best stuff that I can get.
1:25:49- Sure.
1:25:50And I think there are people who feel that way,
1:25:52that people feel like, I made my living on it.
1:25:55It is my preferred OS still.
1:25:57And I feel like I've been left out to dry a little bit.
1:26:02Not that the machine I have isn't fine,
1:26:03like I've got a current MacBook Pro, it's great,
1:26:06but it's like the interest has waned, it feels like,
1:26:09and I don't think that's the case,
1:26:10and then Gapple needs to correct that perception.
1:26:13Real quick though, we should talk about the MacBook Pro
1:26:14because Germin brings up the OLED touch sensitive
1:26:19function key bar row.
1:26:22He has a name for it, the dynamic function row,
1:26:25which definitely sounds like an Apple product name,
1:26:28which is unusual for Germin.
1:26:30Like usually product names and stuff are very tight-lipped.
1:26:33Maybe this is just like what it's kind of called internally
1:26:35and it'll be called, you know, Magic Touch.
1:26:37- I think if it doesn't have magic in it,
1:26:39I'll be very surprised.
1:26:41- Yeah.
1:26:42either Magic Touch or I don't know.
1:26:45- Magic Row.
1:26:46- I don't know, Magic Row? - 1-2-3 Magic Row.
1:26:48- Magic Row.
1:26:49- Rainbow Road.
1:26:50- Rainbow Road.
1:26:52- Oh, no, no, no, guys, I got it, the Smart Row.
1:26:54- Smart Row, whatever it's called.
1:26:57The name is probably internal.
1:26:59He has sort of, what he talks about
1:27:02has been my biggest fear,
1:27:03and I've written a couple of times about it,
1:27:05you can go read it,
1:27:05that the thing is gonna change modes
1:27:08based on the app you're in,
1:27:10And the example he gives is particularly troubling to me
1:27:14that if you're on the desktop,
1:27:15you see brightness and volume,
1:27:18but if you're in Safari, you would get find
1:27:23and iMovie would show clips for cutting,
1:27:27more precise sliders, that sort of thing.
1:27:30My big question around all this,
1:27:32I think Apple's definitely gonna do
1:27:34application function keys.
1:27:37My question is, are they going to open up to third parties?
1:27:39I think they will.
1:27:40- Yeah.
1:27:41- I think they have to to get buy-in, right?
1:27:42If it's just Apple software, then what's the point?
1:27:44But my bigger question is like how,
1:27:48is it going to be distracting, right?
1:27:49If I'm command tabbing between Final Cut Pro
1:27:53and Finder back and forth, which I find myself doing,
1:27:55or between Logic and Finder,
1:27:58which I find myself doing several times a week.
1:28:01Is it going to be distracting that things
1:28:02under my fingertips, sort of in the lower corner
1:28:06of my vision, are changing?
1:28:08And I have no doubt that Apple's doing this.
1:28:12I just wonder how weird it's gonna be to get used to it.
1:28:16And like for me, so I use a MacBook Pro, a 15 inch.
1:28:20And here where I record, it's on a stand open
1:28:23to the left of my display.
1:28:24But at home, it's in clamshell mode,
1:28:26tucked behind my Thunderbolt display.
1:28:29So I'm not even gonna get the benefits of it
1:28:30because I don't type at my MacBook Pro's keyboard
1:28:34unless I'm out and about somewhere.
1:28:36And so like all this stuff is great,
1:28:38but a MacBook Pro is on a stand to the left of my display,
1:28:40I'm not gonna reach up and like,
1:28:42I don't think unless it's really, really good
1:28:45to like make cuts and stuff,
1:28:46'cause I can do it with the keyboard shortcuts
1:28:48that are already under my fingertips.
1:28:50So I just wonder how distracting it's gonna be,
1:28:52how weird it's gonna be to get used to,
1:28:54and then how useful it's gonna be to someone like me
1:28:56who uses a MacBook Pro basically like a desktop,
1:29:00and that just puts aside everyone like Myke
1:29:03who uses a true desktop with the,
1:29:05either the Apple hardware keyboard
1:29:07or a third party keyboard, like this stuff's gonna be really locked away to a subset of
1:29:11users and that's going to limit its adoption.
1:29:14So if the MacBook Air is getting revised with USB-C does it get this?
1:29:19Like does Apple try to spread this out quickly?
1:29:21There's lots of questions and no answers and I'm hoping that Apple puts it all to rest
1:29:26very soon.
1:29:27All right so let me let me say what I think here.
1:29:32I feel like most people are way overthinking this.
1:29:36I think the dynamic row is going to be based on the similar idea of the shortcut bar on the iPad.
1:29:42So you know how on top of the software keyboard you got those extra icons for the developers can
1:29:47program? It's going to be the same principle I think. There's going to be some fixed buttons
1:29:52for like on iOS you got copy and paste they're always in the same spot they're always there.
1:29:56It's going to be the same on on MacOS you always get like the volume the brightness like the the
1:30:01system stuff is always going to be there. Then developers are going to have an API, something
1:30:06like UI text input on iOS, they can define what's it called, like a UI bar button item with a
1:30:15UI text input system stuff from iOS 9. They're basically going to be the same, they can define
1:30:20some shortcuts that appear when their app opens and text input is active. And it's not going to
1:30:27be distracting because it's the same as iOS. Depending on the app that you're using, you get
1:30:31different shortcuts. And I think it's awesome because there's a bunch of stuff on my Mac's keyboard.
1:30:35I mean, I don't use a Mac, but when I look at it, I mean, why do I need to have Launchpad? Why do I
1:30:40need to waste all of these buttons when I'm... No one is Launchpad. Exactly. And it goes back to the Steve
1:30:45Jobs, you know, introduction of the keyboard. Physical keyboards are great, but for some functions,
1:30:50it's better to customize them with software. And I think it's going to be a similar idea to the
1:30:55implementation on iOS 9 and the iPad and it's gonna be nice and it's gonna be fancier because
1:31:01you know it's a Mac maybe it's gonna have colors, it's gonna have animations for like sliders
1:31:07I imagine I don't know but it could be possible. I think part of the reason this is so captivating
1:31:13even to you who will probably never use it is that it's something like new to the Mac that's
1:31:19I agree with you they're going I think they can borrow a lot from iOS and iOS does it well
1:31:23but it's not like linen right like when they put linen all over everything in
1:31:27line and broke full screen mode like that came from iOS but different than
1:31:32this is something new something innovative hopefully and I think that's
1:31:36why everyone is so worked up about it but I want to see an action I do have
1:31:41you know plans to to purchase a new MacBook Pro go back to the 13 inch but I
1:31:46want to see Apple build the case for this thing being useful and the adoption
1:31:51curve is gonna probably hurt that right you see the same thing on iOS Apple does
1:31:55something new like force touch it's only on two models of phone and it takes some
1:32:00time for that to kind of trickle down if I can borrow a phrase and and spread out
1:32:05to everybody. This will be the same thing but um I know it's interesting the thing
1:32:12that he wraps up with really caught my eye is that Apple is working with LG to
1:32:15create a new 5k standalone display and there's been a lot of argument back and
1:32:20that USB C / Thunderbolt 3 which real quickly the MacBook has USB C but it's
1:32:28not Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt 3 and USB C can be bundled over the same connector
1:32:33over the same wire if the chipset supports it so that the core M that's in
1:32:37the MacBook does not. Assumably whatever is in the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro
1:32:42would support USB C and Thunderbolt 3 over the same connector. That's I think
1:32:47really confusing to people.
1:32:49I think they maybe should have collapsed that further
1:32:51into one standard, maybe they will in the future.
1:32:54But if it can be driven over a cable
1:32:56or maybe over two cables, then if this standalone
1:33:005K monitor, whenever it shows up, like, I'm sold.
1:33:04I really want external retina.
1:33:08I've gone back and forth a lot over the last year.
1:33:11We were talking about it on the show.
1:33:12I'm talking about the two of you privately of,
1:33:14do I do a retina iMac at home and then have like
1:33:17MacBook Air or MacBook even for when I'm out and about. And what I keep coming back to
1:33:21is that I don't want two machines. That I want one machine, a powerful MacBook Pro,
1:33:27so I can have all my stuff with me all the time, I can have all the power with me all
1:33:30the time, and a really nice external setup. So at home I use a Thunderbolt display, rest
1:33:35in peace. And it would be nice to have Retina there. So lots of potential ways to spend
1:33:40my money this fall, and I hope that Apple is going to give us some ways to do that.
1:33:46- It's saving up time, everybody.
1:33:48- It is, it is that time of year.
1:33:50It really stinks, 'cause it's right for WWDC,
1:33:52you start saving, you know, you spend all your money
1:33:54in San Francisco and then you guys are saving,
1:33:56again, for new phones and everything.
1:33:57- At least they're not gonna do iPads as well.
1:34:00- That's true, and you know, that's,
1:34:02when you guys were talking about that,
1:34:03I had that thought, like, it does kind of break up
1:34:05the purchase cycle a little bit,
1:34:07and I think that having them in the spring
1:34:08is also good for education,
1:34:10if it's early enough in the spring.
1:34:12So I think that, you know, the days,
1:34:15What was it, was it two or three years ago?
1:34:18We've done this show for so long,
1:34:18I can't even keep track.
1:34:19Two or three years ago, where like,
1:34:20there were no product releases until the fall.
1:34:23- Well, it's like that kind of last year as well.
1:34:26I remember like in the last few months of the year,
1:34:28I bought an iPhone and an iPad and an iMac.
1:34:30It was horrible, and a watch.
1:34:32- It may have been three years ago,
1:34:33and I think it was the first time
1:34:35that it was really noticeable,
1:34:36where we're like, "Does Apple still make products?"
1:34:39Like, have they stopped?
1:34:41Something happened and they can't release new things?
1:34:44And so the iPad moving into the spring definitely helps that, you know, the people, those of
1:34:48us who have the vice of buying new phones every year.
1:34:52If you want to find out more about our show notes for this week, head on over to relay.fm/connected/106.
1:34:56Federico is online at maxstories.net and @Vittici on Twitter, V I T I C C I. Steven is at 512pixels.net
1:35:03and he is @ismh. I am @imike, I M Y K E. I want to thank everybody that became a RelayFM
1:35:09member in the last couple of weeks, really appreciate it. If you are a member, there
1:35:12There are still a few more bonus shows to come out.
1:35:16I put out a huge Reconcileable Differences today with John Roderick joining the cast
1:35:22for the three of them.
1:35:23It's very fun.
1:35:24So if you're a Relay FM member you can get those shows.
1:35:26You can go to relay.fm/membership to find out more.
1:35:29And I want to thank again our sponsors for this week's episode.
1:35:32The great folk over at Pingdom, Eero and Freshbooks.
1:35:37Thank you as always for listening and we will be back next time.
1:35:41Until then, say goodbye guys.
1:35:42Arrivederci. Adios.