0:00:00[Music]
0:00:07From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 103.
0:00:12Today's show is brought to you by Mack Weldon, Hover and Braintree.
0:00:16My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr Federico Vittucci.
0:00:21Hello Federico.
0:00:22Hey Myke, how are you?
0:00:23I'm very well, how are you?
0:00:25Yeah, I'm doing great.
0:00:26It's fun to be back in Rome, always.
0:00:29I feel like I've been moving around the past few weeks.
0:00:32I'm recording in my room as usual, feels good.
0:00:35Yeah. - Yep.
0:00:37So is your setup nice, you feeling comfortable today?
0:00:39- I'm very comfortable, Myke.
0:00:40- Good, and Steven Hackett, are you comfortable?
0:00:42You feeling comfortable?
0:00:44- I'm fine.
0:00:45(laughing)
0:00:46He's just fine.
0:00:47- I am where I always am, I don't know.
0:00:50It's fine, it's fine.
0:00:52So we have some follow up.
0:00:53Actually, we have mostly just follow up this week,
0:00:56it seems like.
0:00:57Myke went a little crazy, which we'll get to.
0:00:59But first we wanted to point people to a event page
0:01:03over on Facebook.
0:01:04Myke and Jason Snell are coming to Memphis next week.
0:01:08And we're gonna do a thing next Tuesday night.
0:01:10So if you are in the area or want to get on a plane,
0:01:14I guess, and come into the area, you can come hang out.
0:01:16We're gonna have some drinks and hang out with people.
0:01:19So there'll be a link in the show notes.
0:01:20I think y'all spoke about an upgrade as well.
0:01:22So come say hi if you're around.
0:01:26- Memphis, woo-hoo.
0:01:28Because it is going to be our two year anniversary next week for Relay FM.
0:01:34That's why we're getting together.
0:01:36Big week.
0:01:37Huge week.
0:01:40We have some smart keyboard follow-up.
0:01:44I got sent this a lot last week.
0:01:49Basically right after we finished recording, as these things happen, uh,
0:01:54Apple released some smart keyboards with new layouts.
0:01:58And so there are a couple different ones.
0:02:00There's an Arabic one, there's one for whatever it is
0:02:03that Myke speaks.
0:02:04And I just wanna kinda explain to listeners
0:02:09your journey with this, because your initial points
0:02:12in the follow-up say they cost 140 pounds each,
0:02:15stickers mean I don't wanna sell the old ones,
0:02:17the next bullet point, I got one.
0:02:19So what happened?
0:02:20- Well, okay, so I'm a little bit upset
0:02:24because they're so expensive.
0:02:28It's like £129 for the 9.7 and £139 for the 12.9
0:02:34which just for any type of keyboard is incredibly expensive
0:02:40and these are very expensive.
0:02:41And I have two, that's my own problem, I actually have two iPads
0:02:44but I really wished that this didn't happen
0:02:49but like I didn't need to buy these
0:02:51but also I want the keyboard that I'm used to at the same time.
0:02:55This is the problem that I've been having.
0:02:57I can't sell mine on because they're covered in stickers which also makes me not want to
0:03:01sell them on.
0:03:02And then the other part of me was like I have desired these and been asking for these so
0:03:07much and so often I had to buy one.
0:03:10When they came out it's like I couldn't not buy one because I've been talking about it
0:03:14so much I think everybody expected me to buy one.
0:03:16Hence why I received so many people tweeting and sending me this link.
0:03:22So I got one for the 12.9 inch iPad which arrived today.
0:03:28It's fine.
0:03:29It's nice to have the layout that feels more normal to me.
0:03:31It has the keys that I'm expecting and the places that I'm expecting them to be.
0:03:35I'm hitting the return key more accurately because there's not random keys there that
0:03:39in my mind shouldn't be there.
0:03:41I get to see the pound symbol, the styling symbol on my keyboard again which is great.
0:03:46Even though funnily enough I need the dollar sign way more.
0:03:50But I do get that as well.
0:03:51still there, it is still there, which is good because that's how it should be, but I wasn't
0:03:54seeing the pound symbol, I just had the hash symbol, which is also on that key as well,
0:04:00which is kind of interesting, so I get all of that there. I'm just happy to have it.
0:04:04The keys feel stiffer, but I expect that's because it's new.
0:04:08Yeah, I would think so. They'd probably break in a little bit.
0:04:12Yeah, and I'm starting over with stickers, I've already got a few stickers on there,
0:04:15because obviously. Naturally.
0:04:17I have a store for these moments, not a physical store, but a storage of stickers.
0:04:23Do you have a backup set of stickers for emergencies?
0:04:28Like you buy a new object and suddenly you're craving stickers?
0:04:32So you're like "Oh my god, I need to put stickers on this!"
0:04:34So I don't have them for emergencies, but I do have them for when the new devices arrive.
0:04:40There is no such thing as a sticker emergency.
0:04:42No, you think so, but then you are in a situation where you need to buy an object.
0:04:47unexpectedly you know and it's not covered in stickers
0:04:51or maybe your keyboard breaks and suddenly you need to buy a new keyboard
0:04:55and oh my god there's no
0:04:56stickers on the keyboard so what do you do you keep a backup set of stickers
0:04:59yeah that's what I do if I were Myke that's what I do. I have backups
0:05:03I have well a lot of the stickers that I have other than that I love
0:05:06I always buy more than I need of and I have stickers that I've never used that
0:05:10are just singles but they come in my sticker subscription or whatever
0:05:13so I've got a few on there I'd like to try not fill it up too quickly and I
0:05:17stagger it out a little bit. I need to get some of the Steven stickers from my suitcase
0:05:22so I can put a Steven sticker on there. I stood in my suitcase from the last trip so
0:05:26yeah, I'm already putting some stickers on. It's great, I'm happy to have it. I now just
0:05:32have this US one that I don't really want to do anything with so I have a backup keyboard
0:05:36in case I ever break my smart keyboard. I don't know how I would do that. It feels kind
0:05:40of indestructible but...
0:05:42Maybe when you go to America if you're not blending with the local solution you can use
0:05:45a smart keyboard with the American layout. That's a good idea, that's a good idea. So
0:05:49I can speak American. Yes. Everybody's gonna be looking at the return key with the US layout.
0:05:55They're gonna know, "Oh yeah, that guy's an American." Myke, you also have been spending
0:06:01time with the Logitech Create for the 9.7 inch iPad. Also arrived today. I got the blue
0:06:08one. I've got it in my hand right here, you can hear it. There it is. I had to, you know,
0:06:14I've mentioned this in the past that I put a pen loop on my iPad. I'll put a link in
0:06:20the show notes to a blog post on michaelswright.com where I detail some of the weird little hacks
0:06:25that I have for my iPad and my Apple Pencil and it has links to the Leuchtturm pen loop
0:06:31that I stick on my iPad so I can have a storage for my Apple Pencil wherever I want it to
0:06:37be. I had to remove this today because the case wouldn't go on. So the tolerances are
0:06:44pretty tight on this thing. So the way that I look at this right now is that this would
0:06:51either be on or off. So with that pen loop I either have to keep it on the iPad, right,
0:07:00which means I can't have the case, or vice versa. So it's going to be one or the other
0:07:04with this. Am I making sense? Like the pen loop, I always have to have something that
0:07:08attaches the pencil to my iPad. So it's either going to be attached to this case because
0:07:11it has a pen loop inside the case or I need to have the sticker pen loop. I can't have
0:07:15both, I have to have one or the other.
0:07:17Or you just buy like 600 pencil loops and use a new one every time you take the case
0:07:22off.
0:07:23I thought about it, but figured that that's crazy. So I have to make a decision as to
0:07:30which I'm going to do. Right now I don't have that decision but I want to tell you about
0:07:33this product a little bit more. I mentioned the tolerances are good, it's because it can
0:07:38be a bit tricky to get this thing in. So it feels like it's secure, right? So you're like
0:07:43shoving it in there and it kind of locks in somehow. It's not as hard to take on and off
0:07:47as the previous one was. And sometimes the iPad has fell out of the case, which is less
0:07:54than desirable. So like I'm taking the case and maybe wrapping it around the back and
0:07:58then the iPad slides out. Not good, not good. But it doesn't happen all the time. And like
0:08:02right now I'm like shaking the thing and it ain't coming out. So I don't know what it
0:08:05It is that makes it pop out of there but sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't.
0:08:10This is truly a case.
0:08:11It is more case than keyboard.
0:08:14It covers the entire iPad, covers the whole back, covers the whole front.
0:08:18It kind of has a magnet in it to keep it closed.
0:08:21It's not a very strong magnet but it is there.
0:08:24Therefore all the stickers I have on the back of my iPad are covered but I also do have
0:08:28a back and front of this case which I could cover in stickers if I want to.
0:08:31It's an important thing to me.
0:08:32shouldn't be important to you, doesn't have to be, but it is to me. And I've put one sticker,
0:08:36I put the mic sticker on this and it works, it's fine, it's stuck on there pretty fine
0:08:42because it has this kind of like weird texture, like a *sucking noise* texture. It's not smooth,
0:08:47it's got like a bubble texture to it and it's, you know, stickers are a fixing. The problem
0:08:53with this thing, having this case on all the time, is it is very bulky and heavy. The case
0:09:00itself, the keyboard case, weighs 1.5 pounds. My iPad Pro is .9--
0:09:05What's that in a real measurement, please?
0:09:09Steven, can you do that for me, please?
0:09:12Yeah, keep talking.
0:09:13It weighs 1.5 pounds, the iPad is .98 pounds. So together, this whole thing is 2.56 pounds.
0:09:221.5 pounds is 680 grams, I assume you put in there, Steven?
0:09:28than the iPad at 0.98 pounds is 444 grams. Okay. So the whole thing together is 2.56
0:09:38pounds. So it is what? 1100 grams and change. Great. Okay. That's not light at all. So just
0:09:47to put this in perspective, so this thing weighs 2.56 pounds. The MacBook, adorable,
0:09:51MacBook One, however you call it, weighs 2.03 pounds. This is heavier than a MacBook. Which
0:09:59is an issue here. My concern is the case and keyboard is harming the portability of this
0:10:07iPad now and if I harm the portability of the 9.7 I'm harming the main reason I want
0:10:14and use the 9.7. I have the 12.9 because it's this behemoth but it's heavier. But it's got
0:10:21like but it's like a powerhouse I can have all this great space but then when I want something
0:10:25light and portable the 9.7 is what I use now the 9.7 isn't light and portable the other part of
0:10:34this yes you could take the case off uh and use it and hold it around but then I have this like case
0:10:38just like what does this case do it just like floats around like it's on the table like it's
0:10:42not where I need it to be but the point one of the issues with this is because of the heaviness
0:10:46and the thickness of this thing and the fact that it doesn't really have any way of folding back
0:10:50around on itself in a comfortable way without me having my hand touching the keys as I'm
0:10:56trying to hold the iPad to read. All of these things mean that this makes the device not
0:11:00very comfortable to read on anymore. There's kind of no real great portrait way to hold
0:11:07this thing, which is also unfortunate. But this is a keyboard primarily, it's what it's
0:11:13for. And the keys are fantastic. They have good travel to them. It feels way more like
0:11:17a laptop keyboard because that's kind of what it's intended to be. It's significantly nicer
0:11:22feeling than the Smart Covers keys. Or Smart Keyboards keys. I did it again, right? What
0:11:29is it? Smart keyboard?
0:11:30Yes you did. It's Smart Keyboard Mic.
0:11:32It feels a lot nicer. Let me see if I can give you a sound of the keys.
0:11:38That's Apple, right?
0:11:39No, that's the Logitech one.
0:11:42Do you have a Smart Keyboard there?
0:11:43Hang on a second.
0:11:45Uhm...
0:11:47You think so? Oh yeah, I do. Hang on.
0:11:49Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
0:11:49Where is it going? I had to go get one. Okay. Okay, so this is an Apple One.
0:11:56Alright. Right, and then again for comparison's sake, here is the Logitech.
0:12:04Alright. Yeah. Feels way more like a MacBook keyboard. Yes. Way more towards that end than
0:12:15towards what the smart keyboard is all about. The backlighting is awesome. It is really
0:12:23nice to have a backlit keyboard.
0:12:25Makes you feel like a real computer.
0:12:27Do you know what though? It's funny, that's true. It does make you feel like a real computer,
0:12:33which you know, it's nice.
0:12:35Yeah, whenever I decide to type or to edit at night and I don't have a backlit keyboard,
0:12:43like I'm trying to conjure up systems to have more light onto my iPad so like I keep a light
0:12:50on my desk it just feels primitive you know. Or it's like at what angle do you need to
0:12:54hold this thing so you get some light coming back. Yes it's not ideal. I mean I guess the
0:13:01like the whole thing is that joking aside you've basically turned your iPad into a laptop
0:13:06and that sort of defeats the purpose of an iPad. Well no but mine has been though the
0:13:12constant keyboard attachment no matter what it is turns it closer towards laptop than
0:13:16what's thought about it. Well, but the smart keyboard you can just
0:13:17like pull it off and get rid of it or you can fold it back and it folds back in a way
0:13:21that you're not touching the keys. I mean this thing is more of a clamshell than anything
0:13:25else. It's closer to the laptop than the smart cover
0:13:29is for sure. I like that there's a dedicated media and function row of keys at the top.
0:13:35Yeah, that's a nice thing to have. Here's one of the really weird things. Lots of springboard
0:13:41crashes. I'm sure it's fine. Mostly when connecting and disconnecting the keyboard
0:13:46from the smart connector, like to the point where I know it's going to happen
0:13:49when I do it. Springboard just crashes. I'm assuming this is an iOS 10 thing, I'm
0:13:53assuming it's maybe also related to the power that's being drawn from the smart
0:13:57connector. I have no idea what is happening here, but it's happening.
0:14:02But this doesn't cause too much of an issue. Springboard crashes are fine, I
0:14:05guess. I mean, maybe you should restore your phone. Mm-hmm. You've had to do that
0:14:10a lot recently, haven't you?
0:14:12Yeah, it's not a topic today.
0:14:14Have you tried using a Mac instead?
0:14:16Why don't you use a real computer?
0:14:18That's a good idea.
0:14:19You know, some people think that we use iPads just because we like the challenge of it.
0:14:25So maybe you should just come forward and admit that you just like this challenge, like
0:14:33it's a game.
0:14:34You're not actually getting any work done.
0:14:36Really, I hate the challenge and want it to be more like a Mac.
0:14:38I'm trying to force myself back to the next thing.
0:14:42The first step is admitting that you have a problem.
0:14:44So thank you Myke.
0:14:46So I guess the overall question is, is the typing experience worth the bulk?
0:14:51I guess you're not ready to answer that just after a day.
0:14:54I don't know yet.
0:14:55I don't know yet.
0:14:56I know that I have enjoyed typing on my iPad 9.7 more than usual.
0:15:01I really enjoyed it.
0:15:02But the thing is, overall, this makes the iPad Pro a better laptop when I want it to
0:15:06to be a laptop but a worse iPad when I want it to be an iPad. And I don't know
0:15:12which of these I want it to be more. Like what I do know is when I'm at home when
0:15:18I'm using any of my iPads they are always about 70% of the time they are in
0:15:23landscape orientation in a keyboard right I was doing this for the smart
0:15:28keyboard and now I'm doing with this thing and this is more comfortable to
0:15:32use on my lap it's better because it's more sturdy like it is way better for that stuff
0:15:37but even with the smart keyboard my iPad Pros are both still a little bit too bulky and
0:15:46heavy this thing is like a whole other world it feels so heavy because it's a laptop weight
0:15:52like it's crazy how heavy this thing is now so I'm not sure what I'm gonna do but all
0:15:58All I do know is I now have another keyboard here. If I get rid of this, which if I do
0:16:03I will probably return it so I'm holding off from sticking any more stickers on it right
0:16:07now, just the one that I know I can get off easily. If I do return this then I will then
0:16:11end up buying a 9.7 inch smart keyboard because I can't have, it'd be crazy to have, for me
0:16:16anyway I feel, to have different keyboard layouts for my two iPads, it just doesn't,
0:16:21it just seems madness.
0:16:22I think that would break your brain after a while.
0:16:25And I'm gonna, so much money on keyboards, but I guess I use them a lot.
0:16:30I mean who would spend money on hardware?
0:16:32It's crazy.
0:16:33Mm-hmm.
0:16:34So, you want to talk about Gboard while we're in this keyboard fantasy land?
0:16:38I do.
0:16:39Just because, a little bit of follow-up for Gboard.
0:16:41Gboard was updated to add multiple language support.
0:16:44I'm still a big fan of Gboard, use it every day.
0:16:47They added a dark theme, but also the ability to create your own keyboard themes using images.
0:16:54Why would you ever do that?
0:16:56I don't know. You click the link that I've given to you. It'll be in our show notes.
0:17:01And you can tell me what you think.
0:17:03Yeah, but you can see... I mean, this is...
0:17:05It's very nice, but you can see how this can be taken to the extreme.
0:17:08I mean, do you wanna really type on your baby's face?
0:17:12Some people...
0:17:13Okay, I don't think anybody should do that. Some people will do that.
0:17:17Why?
0:17:18I have created a keyboard out of a version of the remaster artwork.
0:17:22And I like it.
0:17:24I mean it's nice looking but it does seem distracting to Federica's point.
0:17:28Yeah, you'd be surprised how quickly you don't see it though.
0:17:33I mean it doesn't really surprise me coming from the person with 50 stickers on his iPad.
0:17:37Yeah, it's more customization for me right, which I love to do.
0:17:40And I know that this is, I know what people think when they see this.
0:17:45I know that they're just like, seriously, just go to Android now, like you're too far.
0:17:51You have gone too far.
0:17:52Do you know what I say to you?
0:17:53I say I will not, I'm staying with iOS.
0:17:56And I love Gboard and I love the fact that I can create my own custom keyboard layout.
0:18:01Yeah, but I want to comment on the multiple languages, because I feel like Google is missing
0:18:05real opportunity and it's surprising to me that they're not doing multilingual typing
0:18:10with simultaneous languages like Apple is doing, like Microsoft is doing with SwiftKey.
0:18:16You have to switch between layouts.
0:18:18So you want to type in English, you type in English, then you want to type in Italian,
0:18:22you tap on the globe icon in Gboard and you switch to Italian.
0:18:26So you cannot do multiple languages at a time like you will be able to in iOS 10 or like
0:18:31you already can in SwiftKey, which is a surprise coming from Google because I just assumed
0:18:37it would be the company, you know, with the resources and with the knowledge to be able
0:18:40to understand when someone is typing in English and Italian, change the keyboard dynamically
0:18:45between multiple languages.
0:18:47But it doesn't seem like they're gonna do that, you know, in this version and it's a
0:18:52bit of a disappointment honestly. My hope is that it's coming right like this is
0:18:56step one of that is like implementing the languages and then they do the
0:18:59language like multilingual language stuff like what how Apple did it right
0:19:03like they've had the predictive stuff for a while and then they ended up
0:19:07moving further into it with what they've got now and I'm hoping that they do that
0:19:11because it would be it is a no-brainer like if you're gonna have people switch
0:19:15between keyboards like you put that as an option to switch between languages
0:19:18then you should be letting people type of multiple languages on the same
0:19:21keyboard. It's like an obvious next step for that. So I'd be very very
0:19:26surprised if they didn't do that. Very surprised.
0:19:29Hmm. And the chatroom does point out that that's only really possible within a
0:19:33certain language set that shares characters.
0:19:36Of course. There needs to be of the same alphabets typed, right? But Italian and English is, which is what we're talking about, right?
0:19:42Except for all the pasta emoji that he has that you don't.
0:19:46That's true. That's very true.
0:19:48We should have more pasto types in the emoji keyboard and make sure to submit a proposal via Jeremy.
0:19:55Yeah, he'll do that for you.
0:19:57Yeah, I'm sure.
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0:21:04So we are trying Dropbox paper this week. Why?
0:21:09Because I said so. And I get an equal vote with the two of you.
0:21:13Uh huh. Three votes.
0:21:14But what is the reason in which, right? Like the follow up from last week.
0:21:18So yes, I see what you're saying now. We spoke about Quip being acquired by Salesforce.
0:21:25It's unknown what Quip's future holds. We put forth our theories. But we thought it
0:21:30interesting time an interesting time to look at other services and last week
0:21:35Dropbox paper entered like a public beta it's kind of what they're calling it
0:21:39it's on the web and it's on iOS and it's a if you've used Google Docs or if you've
0:21:45quit currently Docs paper is like an even stripped down version from that
0:21:50it's really simple it does really basic formatting there's some things that are
0:21:55missing that Myke has written a lot about we're going to talk about in a
0:21:57second but it's it's pretty straightforward and it seems to work
0:22:01pretty well all three of us have been in out of this document we're all three in
0:22:04there now and the real-time stuff seems to seems to work I don't think we've had
0:22:08any any accidental overriding of other people's lines or anything like that
0:22:13there's a nice indication of who wrote what line so out to the side of this
0:22:20line like my initials are in purple and the next one Myke's are in red and
0:22:23Federico's are in green so you can kind of see who put what in I think that's
0:22:27nice that's something that I think is unique to Dropbox paper I haven't seen
0:22:30that anywhere else and I think the other kind of nice thing before we get into
0:22:36some some nitpicky stuff is that it copies a bulleted list from notes dot
0:22:41app correctly which is not true for a lot of things even even on iOS yeah
0:22:46because it's simple really but it looks better it looks nicer than what's
0:22:53actually happening because Dropbox paper is markdown, right?
0:22:57It accepts markdown, it's rich text and markdown.
0:23:00So when you copy on iOS,
0:23:03it's placed in markdown to your clipboard. So then when you paste it into,
0:23:09uh, to paper immediately, it just recognizes it and formats it.
0:23:12So it just works really nicely.
0:23:15The reason this is so happy to me is no other of these document collaboration
0:23:18tools use markdown natively, like just like flat out on the bottom,
0:23:22markdown which Dropbox paper does. So I love it for that because when I'm taking my notes
0:23:28in my Notes app which I do all the time I just copy them and paste them and I don't
0:23:31need to do any reformatting which for every other system we have ever used reformatting
0:23:36has always been needed. So for me like just that alone gives this such a big tick for
0:23:42me like because also you know this is a first class app in that way like it's a split screen
0:23:47and all that kind of stuff on the iPad like it's great it works it's fantastic I wish
0:23:52Dropbox would implement that in their main app. But it's great that we have
0:23:56paperwork in like this, I'm happy, right? All the basics are there. This is a beta,
0:24:01I know, but I do have some interesting things that I have noticed and some
0:24:07complaints. Have you filed the radar before we go on? Can you file
0:24:12radars with Dropbox? I don't know. So consider this my radar. I'm providing an
0:24:18Naudia radar.
0:24:20What did they call raiders at Dropbox?
0:24:24No one knows.
0:24:25Yeah, we gotta ask a few people.
0:24:29Crates or like...
0:24:30Crates.
0:24:31Have you filed a crate, Myke?
0:24:32Not yet.
0:24:33Not yet.
0:24:34I'm gonna do it.
0:24:35I'm gonna do it.
0:24:36So here's something I find really strange.
0:24:37This is not a problem, it's just a strange thing.
0:24:39It doesn't use system emoji.
0:24:41It reformats them into the open source emoji one set of emoji.
0:24:45Which is a very odd choice.
0:24:47I don't know why it's doing this.
0:24:50Lots of other companies have made their own emoji, Twitter and Facebook for example, so
0:24:54they have them on the web and it's everywhere.
0:24:57But when you type emoji in on iOS platforms or on the Mac, you're inputting the iOS one
0:25:04and it just reformats it out to emoji one.
0:25:07If it's a compatibility thing, which they might be doing here, I don't know why they
0:25:11don't just default to emoji one when the platform doesn't support, like you know the iOS app
0:25:16is going to support iOS emoji, why are you doing the work to reformat?
0:25:21Also in a document collaboration system, I don't know if it is as necessary to do this
0:25:28as it might be on a web service like Twitter.
0:25:31Like I just can't work out why they're doing it and it's just a strange choice to me.
0:25:36Plus they're using an older version of emoji one so they're not got all the great new emoji
0:25:40stuff so I don't know why you do it.
0:25:43I don't know why you don't just have the emoji,
0:25:45the standard emoji put in.
0:25:47Doesn't make any sense to me.
0:25:49I'm just puzzled by it, right?
0:25:52'Cause at first I thought they created their own emoji set.
0:25:56And weird.
0:25:57I hate when the iOS app that you have to tap
0:26:00an edit button on iOS before you can start typing.
0:26:04So you open the app and you tap on the text
0:26:06and nothing happens, you have to hit edit button.
0:26:10There are many other applications
0:26:11that don't just let you start typing immediately,
0:26:14but most of the ones that I've tried, like Google Docs,
0:26:16you just double tap on the text and you can start writing.
0:26:20There is another way that you can do it
0:26:22with Dropbox Paper I found, but it's even more clunky.
0:26:25If you highlight a word to copy it,
0:26:28the pop-up says copy, edit, comment,
0:26:31and then you can click edit and start editing there,
0:26:33which is a very strange choice.
0:26:35I don't know, this doesn't really seem like a good way
0:26:38to go from view mode to edit mode.
0:26:40I would like to just be able to tap on the text anywhere
0:26:42and it let me do that.
0:26:43That would be great.
0:26:44Or double tap even, which is great.
0:26:46Another complaint I have on the iOS side,
0:26:48just a list of documents on iOS,
0:26:50like there's no way to organize them into anything.
0:26:53You can't, I can't delete notes.
0:26:55Like all of the demo notes, they're just there.
0:26:57There's nothing I can do about them.
0:26:59I can delete our note, but I can't delete Dropbox's notes.
0:27:03Again, all of this stuff might be better
0:27:05on the web app or whatever,
0:27:06but it's not like this on iOS, which is where I use it.
0:27:09Also, where are these being saved?
0:27:12I was expecting, I was looking for this,
0:27:14I was expecting like a folder or something
0:27:17that would have these in, but there's nothing.
0:27:19Aviv, have you found anything?
0:27:21- No, I think it's like a meta structure of your Dropbox.
0:27:26Like it's not a file.
0:27:29It lives in your Dropbox account,
0:27:31it uses your account to authenticate you,
0:27:33but it's not like a file.
0:27:35It's not like a--
0:27:36- But it seems weird to me considering what Dropbox is,
0:27:38that that wasn't the case.
0:27:39Exactly! That's my only hot take on this. I can understand how it fits into what Dropbox
0:27:48is. I'm storing files and photos and documents in Dropbox and this is super nice. Don't
0:27:54get me wrong, it's very nice, it's very clean, it does a bunch of things like code snippets,
0:28:00link embeds, whatever. But it feels like a fundamentally different product than what
0:28:06Dropbox is. Like if this were a different company called Quip for instance, I wouldn't
0:28:11confuse it with Dropbox. And now I'm wondering, so how are you... It just feels like a different
0:28:19proposition than what the main paid service is. And it's like, okay, I mean now you're
0:28:25also doing collaboration, it's fine, looks very nice. But how does it tie into the main
0:28:31product, into what people actually use Dropbox for?
0:28:34So I think that this is primarily created for Dropbox for business and they're just
0:28:39giving it to personal customers as well.
0:28:41It feels like another thing in the business suite.
0:28:45But then why is it not integrated with the other Dropbox functionalities?
0:28:50I don't see a way to import files into a document.
0:28:55I don't see a way to save a document into my Dropbox directory.
0:28:59I don't see integrations with the Dropbox app on iOS.
0:29:02It's very beta.
0:29:03I wouldn't even call it a beta, I would say it's in public alpha at this point.
0:29:08I think part of that conversation is, you guys started here and then you sort of wandered
0:29:13away from it, but where the files are actually stored, like you don't get a folder of markdown
0:29:17or text documents in your Dropbox folder.
0:29:20I have a theory about that, that if you, if they were to treat these documents as if they
0:29:26were files in your Dropbox, you could actually sync, you know, I could sync this connected
0:29:30show topics is marked down to my Mac, then I can open it in Byword or whatever
0:29:35marked editor I want to use, then they've got to deal with not only real-time
0:29:39collaboration on the web or in the app but also syncing via the Dropbox client.
0:29:45Yeah, it would kind of blow up wouldn't it?
0:29:47Well and that can only happen because it's reliant on the file system when you hit
0:29:51the save button or your app auto saves it. And so I agree with you guys that it's
0:29:56weird that this is sort of like siphoned off from Dropbox in the sense of like business
0:30:00like I don't really understand how it fits into their business but it's also siphoned
0:30:03away from Dropbox as the product. I think they had to do that to make the collaboration
0:30:07stuff work that you know if you are reliant on the local file system to save you know
0:30:15every so often then it's going to fall out of sync. That's not to say they couldn't build
0:30:19a Mac app I mean they could build a Mac app that's a wrapper of this web application.
0:30:24all quip is, it's all slack is, that's a common thing with Mac apps now.
0:30:28Where it's basically just a very thin wrapper around a web service. I agree with someone
0:30:33in the chat room saying it'd be nice to have this as a Mac app. I would like it too just
0:30:36so I'm not stuck in a tab in Chrome that I can close or move around. It'd be nice.
0:30:42In that regard, right, because we're getting a million people, I know I can have it as
0:30:44like a tab of its own window. I know I can use those things where you turn tabs into
0:30:50apps, right? No one wants to do that.
0:30:52I just don't want to do that. I just want there to be an app like Slack or like Quip.
0:30:56I just want that. I just want to throw something out there to go back on what you were saying,
0:31:00Steven, about how this is tying into business, right? What happened, I mean, I'm still hurt
0:31:06about this, email. They were doing an email thing.
0:31:09Yeah. They were.
0:31:10Should have tied into business. How does this work where Mailbox didn't?
0:31:15I mean, my guess is that this is something that-- two things.
0:31:21Mailbox came from the outside, right?
0:31:23Didn't they-- they bought mailbox?
0:31:25Is that true?
0:31:25Yes, they did.
0:31:25Or did they have to develop it?
0:31:26Yeah, they did.
0:31:26So maybe there was just integration issues with teams.
0:31:30Who knows?
0:31:31But I had also heard, I think, as well as some other people
0:31:34did, that that was a very expensive project.
0:31:37Not even as far as hours of engineering time,
0:31:41but just keeping it up and running because they're
0:31:43doing all this stuff with with email servers and a whole bunch of junk. And I would
0:31:48guess is something like this is probably computationally expensive as well but
0:31:53it's having been built from Dropbox internally I think makes a big
0:31:59difference. And if you use this thing it has a lot of a lot of similarities to
0:32:05the the web commenting features that the Dropbox has as well. We can actually
0:32:09open a link in a browser and comment directly on it within Dropbox. So it feels
0:32:15like some of these pieces may have been floating around already and you know I
0:32:18hope that mailbox isn't assigned that you know paper if it doesn't do well
0:32:23would go away. I like this product I hope they keep working on it but I don't know
0:32:29if comparing them directly is super fair but it is a good point right that they
0:32:33have historically tried things that are outside of their main product and those
0:32:38things haven't been successful and so this is another example of that and
0:32:42hopefully they can they can break the mold a little bit. But so far as
0:32:46for something you know that's very early even though the iOS app does have some
0:32:51some issues and it's weird that you can't delete the example documents and
0:32:55you can move things into folders only on the web and not iOS like there's some
0:33:00there's work to be done here but I think the seed of what they have is pretty
0:33:03good at this point.
0:33:05I just worry that it's a good looking distraction from the main Dropbox service and that eventually
0:33:13in a couple of years time this goes on without any major updates and it's discontinued and
0:33:19we're all going back to Google Docs.
0:33:22Maybe they'll finally have split screen by the end though.
0:33:25Maybe, I hope so.
0:33:26I don't know, I mean again it's very nice, it's very clean and there's some really nice
0:33:32For example, a personal favorite of mine is how it shows you the word count for a document
0:33:38and in addition to words and characters, it also tells you how many emojis have you used.
0:33:43And by the way, it uses emojis as a plural version, so I'm not sure on that copy there.
0:33:50I actually think emojis is the correct pluralization.
0:33:54Oh yeah? It is?
0:33:55I saw this somewhere else recently. I think the pluralization is emojis.
0:34:01Okay, so it tells you that. The design is fine and I just worry again that Dropbox has a history for doing these kinds of things.
0:34:12You know, like carousel and mailbox, paper. And it's usually like, I get it like how internally it's nice to be able to work on something else on the side.
0:34:24and eventually you realize "hey, why don't we give this to people as well?"
0:34:28But then engineers go back to the main product, designers go back to the main product
0:34:33and this is left without updates, just as it is in the first version.
0:34:39And we're all wondering "hey, what's going on with paper?"
0:34:42So we'll see. I want to be optimistic, it's just they don't have a track record
0:34:47for being able to do services on the side.
0:34:50From the Emojipedia FAQ, in Japanese the plural version of emoji is emoji, but in written
0:34:58English emoji or emojis is considered an acceptable pluralisation of the word emoji, and Emojipedia
0:35:04uses emojis as standard.
0:35:07But usually accepted doesn't mean, you know, it means that it's okay if you use it but
0:35:11we really prefer if you didn't.
0:35:13Well if Emojipedia uses emojis, I think we're all good.
0:35:16Emojis, okay.
0:35:17Yeah, Emojipedia uses emojis.
0:35:18Good enough for Jeremy.
0:35:19They're both accepted.
0:35:20Alright, thank you Myke.
0:35:23So just one last little complaint from me because it's just kind of weird.
0:35:28There are just a few things in this app that are just weird.
0:35:30External keyboards on the iPad, it does some strange stuff.
0:35:33It has a formatting bug that I've seen in a bunch of places.
0:35:36You know where you have an overlay, a keyboard overlay, you know you have like something
0:35:41will come up over the keyboard which will be some formatting options or something.
0:35:45Apple Notes does this as well.
0:35:47When you have an external keyboard on the iPad with this, this doesn't work basically.
0:35:55You see like a tiny sliver of the UI and you can't actually do anything with it.
0:35:59It doesn't come up across the screen.
0:36:01Shift-Tab does not outdent, but there are a lot of apps that don't do this, but the
0:36:05weirdest one for me, and I cannot even understand why this is the case.
0:36:09On the software keyboard, if you type an asterisk and then a space, it creates a bulleted list.
0:36:14Just with the hardware keyboards it doesn't.
0:36:17And I can't work out why.
0:36:19If you type in asterisk and a space, it just formats as an asterisk and a space.
0:36:27Like I just see, it's like how?
0:36:30How is it happening?
0:36:31I guess something weird going on with the text input from an external keyboard must
0:36:36be some kind of bug with, what's it called, an iOS UI text input, the API I think.
0:36:41I guess, I guess.
0:36:42It just, I was like, what are you doing?
0:36:43It's an amusing bug. Or maybe it's something to do with auto-capitalization with external
0:36:50keyboards. I know that I've run into some odd issues with Scrivener when using the external
0:36:57keyboard and the auto-capitalization settings. So yeah, there's some weird stuff in general
0:37:02going on still with iOS when you use a keyboard. And it doesn't... I mean, it's amusing, it's
0:37:06a fun bug to come across, but it doesn't really surprise me. I guess there's a... Even if
0:37:11If you look outside of paper, there are still a few inconsistencies with external keyboard
0:37:15typing in iOS 10.
0:37:16Oh yeah, there's problems everywhere.
0:37:19But yeah, I've got to say, my feeling on this is it is more than good enough in its current
0:37:24state.
0:37:25There is some weirdness to it, there's some things that they should clean up.
0:37:28The fact that this is a beta is a good thing, right?
0:37:30That it's at this stage, but it's in a beta.
0:37:33I'm happy to keep using it, I'm happy to see where it goes, and genuinely I hope that Dropbox
0:37:39put the engineering efforts into this product that will keep it running, keep it going,
0:37:45as something that this would need.
0:37:48Clearly there is a need for this inside of business because Salesforce just purchased
0:37:52Quip for a lot of money.
0:37:54So companies see for whatever reason that this stuff is good in business, I don't know
0:37:59why, but that is enough of a reason.
0:38:01I wonder if Dropbox pushed this out there because Quip, because this has been around
0:38:05for a little while and it was kind of maybe just a beautiful coincidence but it seems
0:38:10that there's a reason that this stuff exists Dropbox continues to want to push into the
0:38:14commercial and the business roots so maybe this is part of that and we're just seeing
0:38:19the fruits of those labors but I hope that they continue to keep working on it.
0:38:23Yeah we'll see.
0:38:26This episode is also brought to you by Mack Weldon. Quite frankly Mack Weldon is better
0:38:33than whatever you're wearing right now.
0:38:35And when I talk about what you're wearing,
0:38:36I'm talking about underwear, comfortable clothes,
0:38:39undershirts, maybe you want some nice tracksuit
0:38:42or jogging bottoms or sweatpants,
0:38:44depending on how you would say them.
0:38:45Maybe you want a really good,
0:38:47comfortable, great looking hoodie.
0:38:50Whatever you're looking for in this range,
0:38:52Macworld and they've got you covered.
0:38:54Stephen, I know that you have some Macworld and goods.
0:38:57Would you like to talk about your shopping experience
0:38:59and your feeling about the clothing?
0:39:02- I would, so I am one to buy cheap,
0:39:06I'll talk about undershirts, buy cheap undershirts.
0:39:09You burn through 'em, they're garbage,
0:39:11the wife cuts 'em up and turns 'em into cleaning cloths
0:39:15and all sorts of crazy stuff.
0:39:16- Is this the normal thing?
0:39:18- It's the life cycle of my undershirts up until this point.
0:39:21'Cause I bought a bunch of Mack Welden undershirts,
0:39:23and I'm wearing one today actually under a polo shirt,
0:39:25and it's great.
0:39:26It's really, I mean, the quality between the undershirts
0:39:31I've been buying from a big box retailer,
0:39:33and this new shirt, it's unbelievable.
0:39:36It's so nicely, it has a nice, I don't know what the word is,
0:39:41but basically the way it's put together is real comfortable
0:39:44so you can move your arms around it.
0:39:45Does it get bunchy?
0:39:46I just really, it's a great undershirt,
0:39:48and it's one that I, you know,
0:39:49if I go back to one of my other ones, I'm sad,
0:39:52and that's no good for anyone.
0:39:54No one wants to be sad about their undershirts, Myke.
0:39:57- I can imagine.
0:39:58Undershirts seems like an American thing. I've never worn an undershirt. I never see undershirts for sale here heavy
0:40:05I'm not sure what kind of guy I know that Don Draper had them in his drawer a lot and he used to try on the
0:40:11Shirts, I said I know that from Mad Men me done
0:40:13And he went on cut from the same cloth and that cloth is comfortable cloth from Mack Weldon
0:40:18Also have silver underwear and shirts that are naturally anti microbial they
0:40:27They eliminate odor which is a good thing. I guess this is some cool science stuff over at Mac Walden
0:40:33They Mac Walden want you to be comfortable. That's what they care about
0:40:36So if you don't like your first pair or whatever it is
0:40:39You buy from Mac Walden whether it's some silver underpants or you buy an undershirt like Steven if you don't like it
0:40:46They'll refund you but you can also keep it as well. No questions asked. They don't want your dirty undershirts back
0:40:53You keep them there for you
0:40:55Not only to Mac World's underwear socks and shirts look good. They perform well, too
0:40:59They will be good for you whether you're working out going out sitting at home. It doesn't matter for everyday life. They're there
0:41:05They're with you and your partner probably won't cut them up when you're done with them
0:41:09Listeners of this show can get 20% off at Mac world and calm with the code connected
0:41:14Thank you so much to Mac Walden for their support of this show every layer fan
0:41:20All right, what's next in our lengthy follow-up mini topic episode?
0:41:25Can you explain why you have like yet another old computer?
0:41:29So when you ask like that, it hurts my feelings my but it's true though. Do you have feelings Wow?
0:41:35No, just wondering you seem a very do have feelings. Okay. I just like to show them on the internet very much
0:41:42Exactly. See see that's why I ask
0:41:45So the hairs in 1993 how old were y'all in 1993 held were you Myke eight five. How would we yeah?
0:41:52Stephen was a
0:41:5532 already
0:41:57I was seven seven come on really seven 27 you mean I
0:42:04Just love this I'm sorry I know please explain what is going on with so in
0:42:13In '93, some people at Apple decided,
0:42:16you know, television seems to be an area
0:42:20that's not going away.
0:42:21What if we put a television inside a Macintosh
0:42:25and they did it?
0:42:26It's called the Macintosh TV.
0:42:27There's a link in the show notes to an iMore column.
0:42:29I wrote about it last year.
0:42:31Not a great computer, not a great television,
0:42:36but together it's sort of a magical sauce of despair.
0:42:41And I talked about it on MacPowerUsers a couple weeks ago.
0:42:45This has been at the top of my list since buying the 20th anniversary Mac for my birthday.
0:42:50And now I've got one.
0:42:51A listener of MPU emailed me.
0:42:53They said they had one.
0:42:54We worked out a deal.
0:42:56And it's now sitting in my office.
0:42:58And it's, like I say, go read the article.
0:43:02We won't go into it here too deeply.
0:43:04But basically, and the TAM has this as well.
0:43:09It's got a TV, like a coax input on the back,
0:43:12it came with a remote.
0:43:14The Macintosh TV, the whole case was black plastic,
0:43:16so it looks unlike really any other Mac at the time.
0:43:19The problem is that this 32 megahertz computer
0:43:24didn't have the power to do computing and TV,
0:43:27so you basically had to switch modes.
0:43:29So it's not like what we're used to today
0:43:31with picture in picture, where you are,
0:43:33you know, you're working and then you have,
0:43:35you know, a YouTube video or something going in the corner
0:43:37and you're kind of multitasking with those different media.
0:43:40This is one or the other.
0:43:42And they didn't sell very many of them,
0:43:44it didn't sell very well, it was expensive,
0:43:47it was like $2,100.
0:43:48Tidbit's named it the second worst Mac of all time,
0:43:53which is pretty rough.
0:43:55They named that before the PowerBook
0:43:56that the batteries would explode and catch fire, so.
0:43:59- Okay. - Not great.
0:44:00- I mean, at least it didn't explode, this one.
0:44:03- It did not explode.
0:44:05about 10,000 of them or so made. I don't know how many exist today, not that many.
0:44:08But it's kind of a weird computer and one Apple played with TV for a while.
0:44:13Like I said, the TAM has this. Although the 20th anniversary Mac you can multitask, you can
0:44:17run Mac OS and have like a little window of TV. And they would
0:44:22eventually, this is so crazy, they would sell basically TV tuner cards you could put into
0:44:27your power Mac or into your performer or something if it had a card slot. So you could go and
0:44:32and add this to your Mac if you wanted to
0:44:36later down the road.
0:44:37And I really think, we think now,
0:44:41just how much something like the Apple TV
0:44:43has blurred the line between a computer and a television,
0:44:46right, that even if you're seeing your cable box,
0:44:49you're not really watching straight TV,
0:44:50you're watching TV through a computer
0:44:53with all the benefits of a computer.
0:44:55And I do find that arc interesting,
0:44:58that here we are, you know, 23 years later,
0:45:01and computers and televisions are very much
0:45:04kind of the same thing.
0:45:06I think that's sort of a fun evolution to keep an eye on.
0:45:10- What's next?
0:45:12Are you done now?
0:45:14You finished buying old computers?
0:45:16Like, are you done?
0:45:18- I mean, what do you think the answer is?
0:45:20- Probably not, right?
0:45:21But now you've gotten the one
0:45:23that you were looking for, apparently.
0:45:24Is there more?
0:45:26- Well, there's always one more.
0:45:27I mean, there's always more.
0:45:29I'm not looking for anything in particular right now.
0:45:33I would say the spiritual successor to the iMac project is probably coming the end of
0:45:38the year maybe.
0:45:39What's that going to be?
0:45:41Well if I told you it would be really fun.
0:45:42Is it going to be a computer or something else?
0:45:45A notebook.
0:45:46Oh god.
0:45:47He's going to buy the iBooks.
0:45:50You're going to need to help me move the iMacs when you're here next week by the way.
0:45:52I'm not doing it.
0:45:53It's not to do with me.
0:45:54Why do I have to touch him?
0:45:56I'm not sure Myke doesn't put a sticker behind your back on a Mac.
0:46:00No! Don't sticker my computers!
0:46:02Yeah, just like sticker stickers.
0:46:04Don't do it.
0:46:05I'll get some clear stickers made so you don't even know.
0:46:08I look forward to seeing the photos of Myke putting stickers on Steven's stuff while he is not watching.
0:46:16I wish you the very best with whatever it is, computer wise, you do next.
0:46:21It's so big. Those projects are so large.
0:46:24were doing the iPods, you know, they're just small little things. It's just huge.
0:46:29I am. I've got a... so the iPod turns 15 in October and I'll be doing something for that.
0:46:35I have all of the classics except one model of U2 iPod that is elusive. But, yeah, they're
0:46:40little. You can just put them in a shoebox. You cannot do that with a Macintosh TV.
0:46:44It's enormous. Depends how big your shoes are.
0:46:46I guess that's not untrue. Instagram has...
0:46:53"Liberally borrowed from Snapchat in the last one."
0:46:57"Liberally borrowed."
0:46:58Is that what they did? It seems like they stole it pixel for pixel.
0:47:01Yeah, it's a liberal borrowing.
0:47:03Down to the name.
0:47:05It's the same exact feature.
0:47:07Yeah, it's kinda gross.
0:47:11Instagram Stories.
0:47:13What is going on here?
0:47:14Are you a Snapchatter, Myke?
0:47:16No.
0:47:17So are not. Okay.
0:47:19I have tried to understand Snapchat but I cannot understand Snapchat.
0:47:28And I know this makes me sound old or whatever but it's just the UI is confusing to me because
0:47:36I had never paid attention to it for a while and now things are being bolted on, it's being
0:47:40added to it and it just doesn't really make sense to me.
0:47:43also none of my friends seem to really use Snapchat that much and I'm just
0:47:50I've just never really been that drawn to it but I use Instagram a lot I have a
0:47:57curated a bunch of friends on there right like I pick who I want to follow
0:48:00stuff that I like I follow we mentioned this before I spoke about us on a couple
0:48:05of weeks ago like I like to see certain types of things on Instagram like pens
0:48:12and nice little things that I enjoy in my life and I follow people's Instagrams and it's nice.
0:48:18It's a happy social network for me to go to. It's your happy place. Genuinely, when it comes to
0:48:24social networks, yes it is. I don't ever really see anything that makes me sad on Instagram, right?
0:48:29It's angry, it's just nice stuff. Not even the wrong type of pen makes you angry? No, because I
0:48:36I don't follow those people.
0:48:37Okay.
0:48:39I mean people with good pants.
0:48:40So they updated with the stories thing.
0:48:43And so people's Instagram stories started appearing at the top of my timeline.
0:48:48So I started watching them and I kind of enjoyed it and I can see why people like
0:48:52this on Snapchat, right?
0:48:54But I never was interested in Snapchat.
0:48:56And so now I get to see them on Instagram.
0:48:59All of my friends are already there.
0:49:00They're using it.
0:49:00It's easy for me to see it.
0:49:02And I liked that.
0:49:03So I've been, was watching a few and then I had a busy day.
0:49:06one day this week and decided that I would use it myself and I really enjoyed it. Like
0:49:10I was taking pictures of stuff and taking little videos and drawing stuff on them and
0:49:14putting a merger on there. All of this stuff is on Snapchat. I know, but I feel like I
0:49:19have to say this a million times, but I wasn't using it. I like it on Instagram. It's nice
0:49:23and simple. I can understand what I'm doing. It's all within the UI that I am aware of
0:49:28and I know that my friends are there and so they can see my stuff and I can also look
0:49:32at the stuff that my friends post. So I've been thinking about this as well, right?
0:49:35Why did they do this? Now, Instagram and Snapchat, I don't know how much they
0:49:42really compete with each other before now. They were kind of, they're both
0:49:48photo sharing services, but people share different things on those services.
0:49:54And over time, Instagram has kind of become the place for people to post
0:50:00their best most perfect photos right they've really kind of line them up
0:50:04right and you got to get the filter correct and you got to really kind of go
0:50:07for that and make it the perfect thing to be a super funny thing on the artistic
0:50:11thing or like the latte art shot at the perfect angle with the light in from the
0:50:16window and the flower and the you know it was like super precise stuff what
0:50:21this stories feature does is allows the people that use Instagram and like
0:50:25Instagram to post this rougher more like ephemeral things these like little bits
0:50:32to Instagram without having to worry about destroying the perfectness of
0:50:36their Instagram feed and also you also don't have to worry about throwing a
0:50:41bunch of things on Instagram and clogging up your friends feeds especially
0:50:45now that they don't see these things chronologically anyway right you just
0:50:48have this random stuff just thrown in there so what Instagram has done with
0:50:52this is they are protecting the feed, the Instagram feed, to be exactly what people
0:50:59are used to seeing and the nice photos and imagery that they see. But they're also now
0:51:04giving Instagram users the place to share this kind of nonsense with their Instagram
0:51:09friends. I totally see why they've done this. Because Snapchat doesn't have that beautiful
0:51:17And it would be, I think, really, it would be more of a kind of turn for Snapchat to
0:51:24integrate something like that, when they have always been about the quick thing.
0:51:28It is way easier for Instagram to integrate Snapchat's features than it is vice versa.
0:51:35And if I was Kevin Systrom, this is what I would have done with my products as well,
0:51:40because they have found a way to give Instagram users the best of both worlds.
0:51:44And I really, really like it.
0:51:46Yeah, I mean, I wasn't expecting to like or to need something like Instagram stories in my life.
0:51:54Because I thought, like you, I thought I didn't need this stuff because I didn't like Snapchat.
0:51:59So it's like, well, I just don't want this in my life. But my problem I found out is
0:52:03I just don't like the Snapchat experience enough to make me want to go for it.
0:52:07Yeah, I was under the impression that I would like I wasn't in looking for this sort of
0:52:1424 hour rolling diary of my life because the Snapchat app is terrible.
0:52:20And I think that it's a, I think that Snapchat is really an enormously popular service with
0:52:28a terrible native app experience.
0:52:30Whether it's navigation or, you know, design that doesn't conform to any iOS.
0:52:35Discoverability, like how hard it is to get the filters to work.
0:52:39Like you have to, oh, it's just crazy.
0:52:42Yeah, and there's a reason why people use it.
0:52:46I just personally don't like the way that it's structured.
0:52:50They do great innovation in many, many different spaces, like with geolocation stuff, they
0:52:54do innovation with how you talk to people with messages, and the latest photo stuff
0:53:02with the camera roll integration is super clever.
0:53:04I just don't like the way that it's designed.
0:53:06And in Instagram, I think this combination of the raw, personal, sort of non-precise
0:53:17nature of stories, combined with the beautiful feed and the staged photographs, I think that
0:53:24there's a divergence here.
0:53:26And it really does work, because one compliments the other, in the sense that you can see a
0:53:31person going from the intimate, you know, non-edited, non-curated even stories down
0:53:41to the feed and the selected photo, the selected, you know, the beautiful view or
0:53:46the beautiful landscape, the perfectly lit and staged selfie, you can see the
0:53:51difference and it makes sense to have, you know, more the messier, you know, the
0:53:57busier story as opposed to the more curated and rare, I would say, Instagram feed, which
0:54:06sort of speaks already to how, you know, a lot of young people have been using Instagram,
0:54:11which is, everything goes on to Snapchat, where it disappears after 24 hours, but selected
0:54:18pictures go on Instagram, and a lot of people, and even some people that I know, after they
0:54:24they post a picture on Instagram, if it doesn't get enough likes from their friends, they
0:54:28remove it. So Instagram sort of becomes this wall of fame of the best shots, right? And
0:54:35a lot of people that I know do this.
0:54:37I can see why people do that. I've never thought that people did that. I didn't know
0:54:40people do that. But I can see exactly why people do that.
0:54:44Exactly. So there's a… Instagram must have, clearly must have seen this behavior. And
0:54:49They want to appeal to this dual nature of social sharing, which is one that is ephemeral
0:54:55and that dies after 24 hours, and one that stays as highlights.
0:55:01And I think it's...
0:55:04I feel sorry for Snapchat, but also not sorry because they make a lot of money.
0:55:08But in the principle, I feel sorry because it's never nice to see.
0:55:15You know, basically Instagram is Samsung-ing Snapchat.
0:55:19I'm using that as a word and it's terrible,
0:55:21but that's what they're doing.
0:55:23And I feel sorry in the sense that the format seems,
0:55:28at least for me, to work better in Instagram
0:55:31than it does in the original service.
0:55:33But I think it makes a lot of sense.
0:55:36I think they're hungry for those Snapchat users.
0:55:39And I think Facebook, and especially Mark
0:55:43and the Instagram people, they're gonna relentlessly fight
0:55:48to get those users back and to win the perception back.
0:55:53Because let's face it, a lot of people say,
0:55:55Instagram and Facebook are for old people.
0:55:58And on the one hand, they wanna go after those old people,
0:56:03old in the sense that you're young at 14 and 15,
0:56:07you're old at 25.
0:56:08So they wanna go after people like me and you.
0:56:11And they also want to kind of change the perception
0:56:14of those younger people, the teenagers,
0:56:17and to be able to say,
0:56:18"Hey, you can do that fun young stuff on Instagram too.
0:56:21Will it work?
0:56:22Is it too late?
0:56:23Does it make Snapchat the underdog?
0:56:25And in a sense, is the underdog
0:56:28the more favorable character to root for?"
0:56:31Because when someone is being copied,
0:56:34you root for the guy that got these ideas stolen from.
0:56:38So we'll see.
0:56:39I think Snapchat is going to push back.
0:56:43Obviously they're not going to say, "Hey look, Instagram copied us.
0:56:49We're done.
0:56:50Sorry, goodbye."
0:56:51They're going to push back and it's going to be an interesting fight.
0:56:53That's made it a little bit worse if you know the backstory of Facebook at some point attempting
0:56:57to buy Snapchat and Snapchat said, "Thanks, but no thanks."
0:57:01And then you go and not only copy their feature but copy their name and some of the gestures
0:57:07are the same.
0:57:09really too close to be comfortable for me and I understand what they're doing
0:57:14business-wise I have no problem with the business end of it but if you're gonna
0:57:17do that then put your own ideas into it don't just copy what your competitor is
0:57:23doing I think you're right I think Snapchat will fight back and I think
0:57:25probably even in a legal sense even though Facebook is much much bigger
0:57:30that's an impossible fight to win well well I mean if you get caught in court
0:57:35for 20 years it is, but if it's based on trade dress and patents, then maybe it's not.
0:57:40That it's a pretty clear ripoff, and I know like Apple people like wave that around, you
0:57:46made the Samsung joke, all that sort of stuff aside, like this is pretty clear copying.
0:57:53And so I don't know, like Facebook could outgun them and out-lawyer them, but I would think
0:57:59Snapchat would have the upper hand and hey this is clearly a violation of our
0:58:04of our work but I wouldn't want to see Facebook.
0:58:08Yeah like if you want to see why like you want to think about why did why did
0:58:13Instagram do this like you just look at the reason that Instagram is part of
0:58:19Facebook in the first place right like Facebook didn't want there to be
0:58:24something else that was taking the photos. So they're like, well screw this.
0:58:28You know, that's why they've done this, why they tried to buy Snapchat, right?
0:58:32Like the idea is that they just want to be in control of all of that stuff so
0:58:35they've seen somebody else is doing it and they're just like, nope we're gonna
0:58:38do it now. And they've just instead of trying to, well instead of buying them
0:58:42because they couldn't, they've now just decided this is something we're just
0:58:47gonna do now. This is now our feature too. Calling it stories, I mean I know why
0:58:52they did that like it's it's because it serves the purpose of what they're attempting to do right is
0:58:57to win over the snapchat people and to give instant brand recognition but it is weird like
0:59:01this stuff like stories i don't know if that is a like a generic enough name right like that it
0:59:10could just be considered the thing because it's not like this type of thing exists in other places
0:59:15it's not like just a name that you can associate to a 24-hour rolling feed of images you know
0:59:21Like, to your point Steven, this isn't like a clean thing that they've done here.
0:59:28They've very clearly just called it this because that's what Snapchat calls it and that's not
0:59:34the right thing to do. They didn't need to do this. They did it for a clear reason but they
0:59:40could have given it another name. But Facebook don't care about that, right? Paper. This is what they'll do.
0:59:45I think saying "have you seen my story" has a nice ring to it.
0:59:50You know, instead of saying "have you seen my specific feature name?"
0:59:54They could have called it Carousel.
0:59:56It's not as simple.
0:59:58No, but they could have given it any name.
1:00:00It's like, you know, what is in a name, right?
1:00:02You just have to have a name be a thing for so long
1:00:04and then it just becomes what people know it to be.
1:00:06Like, why was Stories ever a good name?
1:00:09It was just a name that Snapchat came up with
1:00:11and now it's one that makes sense because it's the thing that exists.
1:00:14Because it lets you ease the transition from Snapchat to Instagram.
1:00:18No, but I mean, they could have called it anything, right?
1:00:22They still could have marketed it right, but they just decided to go the easy route, which
1:00:26was give it the same name, deal with the problems later.
1:00:29Or, you know, I would like to think that Facebook is such a big company and is smart enough
1:00:33that they've looked into this and have found out that they can just call it that, because
1:00:37whatever, like, Instagram or Snapchat don't have the trademarks or can't get them or whatever
1:00:42it would be.
1:00:43Or they, you know, back to my point, maybe they looked at it and said, "You know what?
1:00:48We can take a hit, but it's worth the users in the long run."
1:00:53Yeah, like, we can fight this or we'll at least call it this for enough time that we
1:00:57get people on board and then have to change it later, but it won't matter.
1:01:00No telling.
1:01:01They've probably thought all that stuff through.
1:01:03Sure.
1:01:04I mean, Facebook is super smart.
1:01:06But Steven, what do you think of it though?
1:01:08I mean I'm like you, I have a Snapchat account and I use it a little bit but it's like you,
1:01:15my friends aren't really on there.
1:01:19My friends who are on there are all friends who are in some cases 8 or 10 years younger
1:01:26than me.
1:01:29But people like I went to school with or people in my immediate peer group were all on Instagram.
1:01:35I have found it fun because I'm already on Instagram a bunch to use it.
1:01:40I have been using it partially to Federico's point because the UI is understandable.
1:01:48I know we all sound old, but Snapchat's UI is really bad.
1:01:52They hide a bunch of stuff behind gestures that until you discover them you don't know
1:01:57that they're there.
1:01:58It's like it's not even that it's behind gestures.
1:01:59It's behind gestures they never explain.
1:02:02Exactly.
1:02:03one thing I you know the snapchat stories has a lot of branded content there so you go in there is like
1:02:08The vert you can follow all these publications and they're publishing like little just little
1:02:12Eyedropper bits of news to you
1:02:16And Instagram doesn't have any of that I would imagine that stories at some point will be open up to some sort of branded content
1:02:23If it hasn't already I don't follow any any
1:02:25hashtag brands on Instagram, but
1:02:29The interface is better. It's easier to use them already spending time there and my friends are there
1:02:33So it's a lot of fun and it's fun to have some place to stick something. That's just sort of
1:02:38nonsense because I definitely fall into that category people who like I
1:02:43Really?
1:02:46When I post them on Instagram
1:02:47I want it to be good and I don't go as far as like the leading things
1:02:50They don't get much of likes that seems this bridge too far for me
1:02:53but I definitely think about what I put on Instagram and I try to
1:02:59share things there that I that I'm proud of and that like have some sort of
1:03:03you know something to say and
1:03:06This definitely frees you of that like I've been doing like I did this thing this morning where I checked the relay po box
1:03:12I like did a little video like I would never put that on Instagram ever
1:03:15And I want to probably wouldn't put even put it on Twitter
1:03:17But it's like this weird little pocket where I can do weird stuff in I think that's I think that's a lot of fun
1:03:23I'm enjoying it
1:03:24I do wish there was a way to link to
1:03:28the UI at least, right? Like an easy way. Like you can use like URL schemes
1:03:33but that's just, you know, like that would be great if I could just do like
1:03:37Instagram.com/Myke/Story and that'd just be a link that I just send people to.
1:03:42Right, the stories are not online. Like I'm on the Instagram website right now and
1:03:45signed in and the stories aren't anywhere, best I can tell. So it would be
1:03:50nice to see that. Maybe that's something that's coming but my thought is even
1:03:54with that, they want you to use the app.
1:03:56And so, I always have felt like the Instagram website exists
1:03:59because someone made them make an Instagram website.
1:04:01For a long time, it wasn't here.
1:04:03Like, remember, when Instagram launched,
1:04:05you go to their website, it's like, go to the app store.
1:04:07And now, if you log in, you can see your timeline.
1:04:11In a chronological fashion, oh, nope, nevermind.
1:04:15I was getting excited, now I'm not.
1:04:18So yeah, there's room to grow, but I'm enjoying it.
1:04:21I think it's fun, and I think that it's,
1:04:24I think that people are going to like it. I think people who were never going to use Snapchat
1:04:28will introduce them to this concept for the first time.
1:04:32And they'll just think it's an Instagram feature, right? They won't know that it got ripped off from Snapchat.
1:04:36And that's a win for Facebook.
1:04:38I feel like the conclusion to all this is Facebook is the perfect example of the expression
1:04:45"Keep your friends close but your enemies and Snapchat closer."
1:04:49Because this is what they're doing. Basically going after Snapchat time and time again
1:04:53time and time again and they've seen they've seemed to understand now that
1:04:57they shouldn't be subtle about doing what Snapchat is doing by you know
1:05:03having like separate apps or like hidden features and options in the Facebook app
1:05:08let's just go all in and make it a main feature in Instagram at the top of each
1:05:13of the main page I guess a very bold copying you know there's copying and
1:05:17and there's being bold about copying,
1:05:20to the point where you go on the record in an interview,
1:05:24the CEO of Instagram saying,
1:05:26"Well, we appreciate what Snapchat has been doing,
1:05:28but we think, you know, the stories is more of a format.
1:05:31It's a standardized format.
1:05:32It's not their own feature."
1:05:34And I'm part of that here. - I'm thinking about that.
1:05:35- But sure, okay, buddy.
1:05:38Now you realize that, you know,
1:05:39your main competitor has created a new format.
1:05:42I mean, I don't know.
1:05:43- That's like, this is what I was trying to get at earlier.
1:05:46Like if three or four other companies had done this before Facebook, I would understand
1:05:50it. But that's not the case, right? Like it's just Snapchat that's doing this.
1:05:55Yeah. Yeah, it's not like everybody, it's not like Markdown where everybody's now doing
1:06:01Markdown. So yeah, okay, it's a standard. We can, we can adopt standard. It's a, it's
1:06:05a very specific feature of your main competitor.
1:06:08Well, in Grubber release, Markdown with an open license. So you can go in and do things
1:06:12with it. It's not like Snapchat invented the JPEG.
1:06:16Well, it's like the phrase "timeline." I think that was Facebook's thing first, but then
1:06:22enough smaller companies started to use it, which wasn't really too much of a problem,
1:06:25right? Because they weren't big into Facebook. But now that it's just an understood and used
1:06:29phrase by anybody who has a layout view like that, just "timeline." That is a timeline.
1:06:35And "timeline" as a word already exists in the same way that stories did. But now it's
1:06:39It's just like we understand that to be a timeline.
1:06:41So if there have been, I'm sure there are some,
1:06:43but like if there have been enough time
1:06:45or enough applications, we're doing things like this
1:06:47and calling them stories, then if Facebook
1:06:50could have come along a few years later
1:06:51and called it Instagram stories,
1:06:54it maybe wouldn't have been so much of an issue.
1:06:57But at least I can't, I don't know of any applications
1:07:01that do this rather than Snapchat, right?
1:07:04- I don't either.
1:07:04- I'm sure that there is like Snapchat for boats
1:07:07or something that's doing this.
1:07:09and they have it, but there aren't enough, this isn't enough of a big thing that would
1:07:13be used elsewhere because there just aren't really a lot of photo sharing services.
1:07:16You know like Flickr had something called Stories and Photobucket and something called
1:07:19Stories etc.
1:07:20I'm pretty sure that a while ago I was pitched Snapchat for dogs and I mean it does sound
1:07:26ridiculous but also kind of incredible.
1:07:28Well like you get to see dogs or dogs get to send pictures to each other?
1:07:32See I don't know if dogs actually interact with the product but I've been meaning to
1:07:36go back to the tips inbox that we have on the site and check out the Snapchat for dogs.
1:07:44Maybe Facebook will copy that next.
1:07:46I don't know.
1:07:47Why, before we wrap this up, why do you guys think it is in the Instagram app and not the
1:07:52Facebook app?
1:07:53Oh, because it's, because my idea is they know that kids and teenagers that have been
1:08:01using Instagram as a shelf of their most beautiful shots and instead they want to go back into
1:08:11their routine, they want to get back into their daily usage, not just for those beautiful
1:08:16shots with tons of likes but also for the raw aspect of daily life, the stories basically.
1:08:26They want to have more engagement on Instagram in addition to those more special pictures
1:08:34and they want to go after Snapchat because they don't like the fact that people are spending
1:08:38tons and tons of time on Snapchat and how impressively they have grown, I mean Snapchat
1:08:45over the past two years to the point where even in Italy which is usually these things
1:08:52a while to take off. Now a lot of people I know they say "hey do you use snap?" It's
1:08:57totally normal and that's a problem for Facebook, that's a problem for Instagram. And to have
1:09:04those people not spend time in Instagram and not generate revenue and mobile money with
1:09:10app installs and ad revenue on iPhones and Android phones, that's a problem. And why
1:09:16is it a problem? Because you don't spend enough time. Because you just open Instagram,
1:09:21pause the shot, wait a few minutes, doesn't get enough likes, delete the shot, you're
1:09:25done.
1:09:26And you know, if I were Zuckerberg I wouldn't like it either.
1:09:29But now the strategy is to go after Snapchat.
1:09:32I mean it's...
1:09:34I don't like the rip and off, but you gotta hand it to them, it's quite impressive how
1:09:39bold and there have been about it.
1:09:43Like Ben Thompson and an excellent article on his website, basically they're copying
1:09:50right. They're doing copying right, in the sense that they're not hiding behind, you
1:09:57know, different name or different design, just whatever. It's the whatever approach
1:10:03to copying. And that's frankly remarkable in a way.
1:10:07Okay. Do you think the same about Samsung?
1:10:10Well, you know, I have to tell you, in a way, maybe it's way too close for me, because,
1:10:21you know, writing about the iPhone is what I do for a living, but if I were not writing
1:10:27Mac stories, I would tell you, yes, it is remarkable how they have been able to understand
1:10:36they were doing before the iPhone and to change their strategy entirely after the iPhone quicker
1:10:43than any other companies, it is remarkable. I don't like them, but that's my personal
1:10:49feelings getting to this.
1:10:50It's a bias. It's a bias.
1:10:51I have a bias, but I think externally I would tell you, yeah, it is impressive because from
1:10:58an industrial standpoint to retool your entire supply chain, how you design phones, and how
1:11:06how to learn to copy, that is impressive in a way. You know, I'm not saying it's morally
1:11:12acceptable.
1:11:13At Samsung, right now, they're past the copying stage. Now they are like neck and neck with
1:11:21Apple. They do things before Apple can do them, then Apple do things before Samsung
1:11:25can do them. Right now it's like going backwards and forwards, because I'm looking at, I keep
1:11:30seeing that edge fun and my word that is a beautiful piece of hardware.
1:11:36Like the new Note as well, the Galaxy Note, it just looks amazing.
1:11:42They really know what they're doing, right?
1:11:43They got all the waterproof stuff set, like it's all done.
1:11:46I've seen the MKBHD video, they're doing some crazy stuff like the iris scanning, and I
1:11:53love how on the new Galaxy Note you can highlight a portion of the screen and make it a GIF
1:11:59to share with people. That's just incredible, man. Come on. That's awesome. And so, yeah,
1:12:04they've arrived at this stage where they're basically shipping the same really close hardware,
1:12:12different experiences, but, you know, they're copying each other at this point. It's not even
1:12:17copying because we're all playing in the same field, essentially. And it's just a matter of
1:12:21taste what do you prefer? But to come to this, you know, to be here now for Samsung it means
1:12:31they had to copy a lot before and you know other companies, you know LG, HTC, they didn't
1:12:39know how to copy, they didn't know how to imitate Apple and Samsung did. And even if
1:12:44it's personal for me and I have a very strong bias against Samsung, I have to say, you know,
1:12:50They make a lot of money and they're the only company that's making money on premium Android
1:12:54phones because they know how to copy.
1:12:57That's it.
1:12:58At least they knew how to copy.
1:13:00Now they're doing their own things, mostly.
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1:15:17Now Stephen you requested that the connected audience shower upon us some Q&A.
1:15:25Would you like to read the first Q&A question considering you have requested our audience
1:15:31to give us these. We did this well before we realized we had so much stuff to talk about,
1:15:35so sorry. Really this only applies to you, but our friend Rob Lewis wants to know how
1:15:43many Pokemans have you caught. How many Pokemans do you have?
1:15:50Question for Myke, I haven't really been playing the game.
1:15:53I have caught and seen 67 Pokemon.
1:15:57Um, as of maybe the last couple of days, the fun is wearing off for me now.
1:16:02Uh, I swear I play Pokemon Go.
1:16:05I see way too many of the same Pokemon.
1:16:07I'm not finding new exciting ones.
1:16:09Um, I, they need to add more stuff to the game to try and bring me back in.
1:16:13But as of right now, I'm not enjoying going out and finding them or finding
1:16:17it to be a bit of a hassle sometimes, which is a real shame.
1:16:20Uh, I'm sad about it cause I enjoyed it so much.
1:16:22but when I'm seeing like 55 Rattatas a day and know like you know I want to see some
1:16:29more EVs I want to see I've never even seen a Pikachu I've never even how is that possible
1:16:34that's very sad I remember you taking pictures going on Poke walks with your girlfriend now
1:16:39fiance so does he mean no more walks no more no more romantic getaways with Pokemon I think
1:16:46she's still been playing it a little bit more than me I it's just a shame like and someone's
1:16:51telling me in the chat room I need to level up. I'm level 21. Like that feels like a pretty
1:16:55strong level. Seems like a lot of level levels Myke.
1:16:58And you know, there is a thing where I'm like, why is it difficult to find Pikachu in this
1:17:03game? Everybody wants a Pikachu. Everyone should be able to find one, right? I feel
1:17:09like that should be the one Pokemon that they may be like at a certain point, like you see
1:17:13one. Like they do something behind the scenes to kind of try and trick that. But you know,
1:17:18I feel like everybody should be able to catch Pikachu
1:17:20if they want one.
1:17:21I feel like that should just be a life lesson for us all.
1:17:23So I'm waiting to see, like I've not got rid of it yet.
1:17:26I'm still keeping it on my phone.
1:17:27I keep checking in every now and then
1:17:30when I'm somewhere new.
1:17:31I'm just playing it less
1:17:33and it feels like it's maybe going away,
1:17:36but I'm hoping that it can, I don't know,
1:17:39that it can kind of bring me back in some way
1:17:42when they have more features.
1:17:45I wonder if that's the case with more people.
1:17:48I'd be curious to know if the trend is going down.
1:17:51Oh, it definitely has.
1:17:53I expect that maybe in the last week or so there has been an incredible drop off.
1:17:57Because it was just too big, right?
1:18:00So there must have been a drop off, but it depends on what that resting level is.
1:18:04And we'll see.
1:18:05Like, they still haven't launched it in all the territories they want to launch it in.
1:18:07I don't think it's in Brazil yet, so.
1:18:11Or China.
1:18:12Is it not in China yet?
1:18:13I don't think so. They launched in some Asian countries today, but not in India and China.
1:18:18So they still have a long way to go. So even if they're losing people, they can bring them on.
1:18:22Yeah.
1:18:23The next question is from someone named Casey Liss. Casey Lice? I'm going to go with Lice.
1:18:31Casey Lice sounds like a problem you've got to take care of.
1:18:35He said, "Why do you guys like beards so much?"
1:18:41Yeah, because I'm lazy. I don't have time. There's a very timely tweet from some avatar
1:18:50on Twitter with a picture of Sean Murray, he's one of the developers of No Man's Sky.
1:18:56By the way, it's the game I'm gonna play tonight, a day before Myke. Let it be known that I'm
1:19:01playing No Man's Sky before Myke, after like three years of waiting. Anyway, there's a
1:19:07series of pictures of Sean Murray from I guess 2013 to 2016 and he's progressively not shaving
1:19:16and the caption is "game development" and the final picture...
1:19:19Also I like the last one where it looks like he's a zombie.
1:19:22His eyes look super red.
1:19:24Yes, and his beard is quite impressive and there's like merchandising behind his back.
1:19:30So yeah, I feel like my beard grows more whenever I'm busier, and so I'm writing my IS10 review,
1:19:40I'm actually editing my IS10 review now, and I have quite a beard and I need to shave.
1:19:45And I feel like there's a direct correlation between busyness and not shaving,
1:19:53so I'm gonna go with lazy and there's just no time to sit down and do that.
1:19:59I didn't read who submitted this question, I just read the question. So when I wrote
1:20:07it first I was like "huh, this person, what he's saying is for now, it's just like what's
1:20:10even the point? It's KC, lice, like this guy, he doesn't, the reason he can't have a beard
1:20:16is because of the lice I think." Just frankly, I feel more comfortable with a beard.
1:20:25Can you have beard lice?
1:20:27Probably.
1:20:28Wow, that still looks terrible.
1:20:30I have had facial hair for over 10 years in some form.
1:20:34I think that my face looks better with facial hair.
1:20:36I think I look cooler with a beard.
1:20:39I feel smarter when I am thinking and I've got my hand in a beard, right?
1:20:45And I think it looks cool and I think Casey needs to grow...
1:20:49Casey looks really good with a beard.
1:20:51Now, if my memory is correct, he lets his facial hair grow out over Christmas, and he
1:20:57looks really good.
1:20:58He just won't go far enough.
1:21:00Makes me sad.
1:21:02Come on, Casey.
1:21:03Let the handsome out.
1:21:05I have a beard the same reason you do, Myke.
1:21:07I've had facial hair for a really long time.
1:21:09I think I look like a child without it.
1:21:11So for me, I don't look like me.
1:21:14I've been clean-shaven like three times in a decade, and I always feel like I look like
1:21:18somebody else.
1:21:19this sounds quite silly but my dad is, you know, he's from another generation and he's
1:21:25not used to travel much, but whenever I go back home and I usually go for dinner with
1:21:32my parents and he tells me, like he looks at me and starts shaking his head and he's
1:21:37like "Why do you keep growing this beard?" and I'm like "Hold on, come on, every time
1:21:43you tell me this" and he's like "Sooner or later you're gonna be stopped at the airport
1:21:48by the police and they're gonna ask you questions and I'm like that that is very unlikely that
1:21:53it's gonna happen to me but that has happened to me that as I know I know but you know I
1:21:59don't have that long a beard I an airport border once coming into the United Kingdom
1:22:06back from America I had a lady asked me what's with the beard to which I have responded I
1:22:14I think it looks good. So maybe that person was Casey in disguise.
1:22:18Or maybe it was my dad. I don't know.
1:22:20Did he have grappa with him?
1:22:23That was the problem.
1:22:25Up next, another Casey. This is like the little Casey section.
1:22:29Casey, some last name that I'm not going to try.
1:22:33Oh come on, come on.
1:22:35Broughton? Broughton? The DHT is throwing me off. Broughton.
1:22:39Casey Broughton asks, "What email apps are you using and why?"
1:22:45So we answer this every time.
1:22:46People are really interested in email apps.
1:22:48I use Mail.app everywhere because it seems to get the job done.
1:22:56What about you guys?
1:22:57>>Tichy, I want to know what you're using.
1:22:59>>Yeah, so I've been trying the Apple Mail app since beta one of iOS 10 just to get comfortable
1:23:06again and see what's changed.
1:23:09And after, I feel like this happens every year, after being very disappointed by the
1:23:14lack of changes, I went back, I know right? It's like every year, yeah, I'm trying
1:23:20to have full mail again, it's nice. Then after a couple of months, like, what am I
1:23:24doing? What is going on here? So I'm back to ARML. Probably because I really do miss
1:23:31two features. Push notifications. I know I shouldn't obsess over email, you know, all
1:23:37that stuff but it seems like Apple Mail for whatever reason it can never check
1:23:42for changes every 15 minutes like I tell it to do. I don't know what is
1:23:46going on I use Gmail so that's probably the reason why. And I like the second
1:23:51feature that I like in airmail is the app integrations so I can send an email
1:23:54message with a link back to the message that will open the message in airmail to
1:23:59todoist, todo, you know any other task manager or communication app that I use
1:24:05on iOS. It's really well done. It's getting better that I'm testing this update that they're
1:24:09doing for iOS 10 and a bunch of changes. Very nice. I know the developers, they're Italian,
1:24:14so you know, extra points. I'm using ML. Love it.
1:24:18I use ML because of Federico. I listened to him on episode 10 of Canvas and switched immediately.
1:24:25There are a few things that I really like about it. There are some things that frustrate
1:24:28me about ML. There's some weird, it just does some weird stuff every now and then.
1:24:35But the things that it does well, it does so well that I'm willing to look over and
1:24:40look past some of the weird bugs and strangeness that it has.
1:24:44You mentioned about sending emails out to other services.
1:24:48I'm able to send an email message out to OmniFocus, it appends the entire message in the note,
1:24:52and I'm able to jump back to the email if I need to grab an attachment out of it or
1:24:56something.
1:24:57And that has changed the way that I deal with email because I'm able to get email out to
1:25:01my task manager a lot easier.
1:25:03I'm also able to have tasks with contacts to them,
1:25:06so I don't need to write out notes or whatever to myself,
1:25:08which is great.
1:25:10And I love how easy it is to turn email messages into PDFs,
1:25:14which lends into my system now of trying to replace
1:25:18Evernote with Notes, right?
1:25:20I'm able to just create PDFs of travel emails
1:25:22and add them straight to Notes.
1:25:24M-A-L is great across all platforms.
1:25:28I really, really like it.
1:25:29And I feel like I'm just scratching the surface
1:25:31of its power.
1:25:32every time I think I wonder if it can do this, it can do it.
1:25:36And I read a little bit for that.
1:25:38- Cool.
1:25:39- I may give it another run here.
1:25:40If you guys are both sticking with it for the song.
1:25:43- Yeah, I think it's a generally a good sign
1:25:46when I'm using something else as a test
1:25:50and I find myself missing the original app
1:25:53and that happened with Hermel.
1:25:54That's usually a good indication of the fact
1:25:56that it's a good app and I wanna go back to it.
1:25:58- Yeah.
1:25:59- Cool.
1:26:01Steven Fraser asks, naked phones or cased phones?
1:26:06- Case is forever.
1:26:08- Yeah, I gotta go with Myke here.
1:26:12I've been a case free person for most of my iPhone years,
1:26:17but in the past couple of years since the iPhone 6 really,
1:26:22when I realized every year I'm just gonna buy
1:26:24a really expensive phone and it's gonna be the plus model
1:26:28with a lot of storage and I wanna be able
1:26:31to sell it, you know, next year and I want to be able to sell it in good condition,
1:26:35then I gotta go with the case.
1:26:37Because these phones are so big, they're easy to drop and I don't want to drop them.
1:26:40I smash them into a bajillion pieces.
1:26:42The only thing I'm gonna say, I'm using the Apple silicon case and sometimes my jeans
1:26:49are a little tight and it's hard to pull out of my...
1:26:53No, I mean just the model, you know, the design.
1:26:57I know.
1:26:58Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
1:26:59I bet you look real good in them.
1:27:01There's a lot of grip between the case and the fabric of the jeans.
1:27:09And I don't know what you're doing with this, but still, I wish it was a different texture.
1:27:16That's all I'm saying.
1:27:17Well, if you tried the leather, it's definitely better for this.
1:27:19I don't like the way that it ages.
1:27:22Oh man, it's great.
1:27:25No, leather is for old people.
1:27:27I was gonna say I usually don't use a case but if I do I use the black leather
1:27:33Apple case and how many iPhones are you on didn't this round?
1:27:37Yeah, I've had a bad
1:27:40I did break a 6s plus last year, but um
1:27:46The the leather case is nice. It's it solves the problem. I have the same problem with the silicon case
1:27:53I actually tried one ended up returning it for that reason Federico that you stick in your pocket is like
1:27:57Velcroed itself to the inside. Yes. Yes. I think maybe my jeans just aren't as tight as yours
1:28:02Maybe I bet you don't look good Myke. I always look good
1:28:06Yeah, it's because of the facial hair. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. The the silicon case really grips the beard hair
1:28:12I don't even need to hold my phone
1:28:14Anyway, it just sticks to the side of my head when I talk on it. That's kind of gross. But okay
1:28:22listener Sebastian writes in and it's a really long thing you can find these in the show notes, but it boils down to which iPad
1:28:29He should buy based on
1:28:31Email browsing the web maybe doing some Adobe comp work
1:28:35Not doing you know
1:28:37It doesn't seem like going full in on the on the iPad like like some people have they still keeping a Mac
1:28:43Which iPad should I get and most importantly which color I?
1:28:47I recommend get the 9.7 for this person's use case because they seem like they want to just do some stuff and
1:28:54Still use a Mac get the keyboard. So you take advantage of all the space when you're typing
1:28:59It's more comfortable for everyday use the 9.7
1:29:01But if you do want to replace your laptop you think that's something you really want to do then go to 12.9
1:29:06But the 9.7 is a better complementary device if you're still planning on using a Mac frequently as well and I recommend gold
1:29:14hmm
1:29:17- T.G., you recommend gold now too, right?
1:29:20- I do.
1:29:21I'm just wondering if maybe next year I wanna go back
1:29:24to the black iPads, black phones everywhere.
1:29:28Just because I feel like I've been missing having
1:29:31you know, the black front of the iPhone.
1:29:36I really do miss it.
1:29:37And sometimes when I'm reading on the iPad Pro at night
1:29:40and I look at the white bezel, you know,
1:29:43I kind of wish it was black.
1:29:45but I gotta say the gold back looks amazing so my wish is for Apple to make
1:29:51a black iPhone and a black iPad with the gold back
1:29:55that would look good
1:29:56black and gold yeah? I don't know with my next phone if I'm going with rose gold or gold
1:30:01but it's going to be one of those two
1:30:03I might go rose gold that looks great
1:30:06man all black all the time I really don't like the white cover glass
1:30:12The last question we have is from Mr. Rebo.
1:30:16How do you feel about IOS 10's control center in particular about having to swipe to access the volume control?
1:30:22So if you're not familiar on IOS 10, control center is now split into multiple panes.
1:30:28So before you had brightness and volume sliders kind of on top of each other.
1:30:32Now you have all your hardware controls, brightness, airplane airdrop, and then if you go over you have a media preview.
1:30:40So like the album you're listening to, its playback position, play controls, and then volume.
1:30:45So it's up and over, get to volume. How do you guys feel about that?
1:30:49So I just checked in Scrivener and the control center section is 3,000 words.
1:30:56So I'll try to keep it short.
1:30:58And I feel like it takes some time to get used to, but overall I think it's an improvement.
1:31:08It's not perfect. I don't like the design of the main page, the first one with the system shortcuts.
1:31:15I think they should do more and it's time to make it customizable. So I have a whole bunch of complaints,
1:31:21but overall I think the idea works. But it takes you a while to get used to it. And it especially
1:31:26works if you listen to a lot of music and if you do a lot of play and pause or tweak the volume,
1:31:33or listen to podcasts and use the skipping controls.
1:31:37I think it works. I'm a fan. There's a whole list of
1:31:41complaints that I have, but it takes a few weeks to
1:31:45go all in with the idea. And it
1:31:49makes a lot more sense on the iPhone than the iPad.
1:31:53I've only played with it on my iPad and I haven't got
1:31:57a lot of complex thoughts yet and I feel like I'm not
1:32:01able to fully get a picture on this because it's not on my iPhone yet. I have not got
1:32:0510 on my iPhone. Do it. No I'm not going to do it yet. I'm not doing it yet. I don't need
1:32:11it. I'm fine. I'm deciding to keep the stability of my iPhone for a while because I use my
1:32:17iPads so much when I'm at home it is giving, it's sufficing my need to check out iOS 10.
1:32:24I don't need to put it on my phone right now. That's fair. And we should add too that Control
1:32:29Center will pick up a third pane if you have the home kit stuff set up so you can
1:32:33you can save scenes and some controls into there. Unlike Federico I do think it's
1:32:39probably better. I like the media page and having the preview of what you're
1:32:43listening to you have more information about it. I do wish maybe that you could
1:32:47maybe set the order because 90% of the time when I go into Control Center it is to do
1:32:53media stuff. It is not to launch the calculator or the flashlight and it would
1:32:57be nice to be able to like reorder those panes. But it's not the end of the world.
1:33:01It could also just be context-worth. If audio is playing, then that should be the first
1:33:06one.
1:33:06What Apple is doing is they remember your last viewed page. So if you dismiss Control
1:33:10Center and you're viewing the "Now Playing" card, when you open it again, it'll open to
1:33:15that page.
1:33:15Okay. That's kind of cool. But still. If a podcast is playing on the speakers, like,
1:33:20give me that view. But I guess that could end up being more confusing if it keeps switching
1:33:24around. I don't know.
1:33:27Is that the end of the questions?
1:33:29That's all we're going to do for today.
1:33:31Awesome.
1:33:32We'll be back next week, a little later in the week.
1:33:35Federico is going on summer vacation and me and Steven are going to be together in Memphis
1:33:41and we're going to be recording on the 18th which will be our anniversary for Relay FM's
1:33:47second year.
1:33:48So look out for that a little bit later on next week.
1:33:51If you want to find Federico online he'll be posting pictures of himself on the beach
1:33:55on his Instagram Snapchat story, which is @vitiaci.
1:34:02You have @vitiaci on Instagram, right?
1:34:05I think so, yeah.
1:34:06Yeah, I think you are.
1:34:07You're also on Twitter, @vitiaci.
1:34:09Steven is @ismh on Twitter only.
1:34:11Steven, what is your Instagram?
1:34:15Steven M Hackett.
1:34:18Someone else has @ismh, don't search it.
1:34:20It's terrifying.
1:34:21Yeah, really.
1:34:22Seriously, I know that sounds like, "Ah, it's a fun thing."
1:34:24Don't do it.
1:34:25I'm gonna search for it. No. You're gonna see what's up. You're gonna regret it.
1:34:28Yeah you really seriously you don't want to. It's gonna mess you up.
1:34:32So Stephen M Hackett on Instagram. Stephen M Hackett on Instagram this is what.
1:34:37Okay. Or is it ISMH. Don't do it. Alright and I am @imike everywhere.
1:34:45Thanks so much to our sponsors this week. The fine folk over at Hover,
1:34:50Mac Worlden and of course Braintree. We will be back next time until then say goodbye guys
1:34:57Adios, adios