0:00:00(dramatic music)
0:00:02- From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 97.
0:00:10Today's show is brought to you very kindly
0:00:12by Ministry of Supply, willing.com, and Braintree.
0:00:16My name is Myke Hurley.
0:00:17I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.
0:00:19Hello, Steven Hackett.
0:00:20- Hello, Michael Hurley.
0:00:22- And Hark, what is that in the distance?
0:00:23It is a returning Federico Vittucci.
0:00:25Hello, Federico.
0:00:26- Hey, guys.
0:00:27- So happy to have you back.
0:00:29I missed you guys last week.
0:00:31Are you recovered?
0:00:33Not fully, but I'll get there.
0:00:37You know, I was thinking there was some kind of irony in the fact that I caught some kind of bug at a developers conference.
0:00:43Oh, feathery. Have you been working on that all week?
0:00:49No, I just thought about it like a minute ago.
0:00:53It's like on Monday of last week. I have a great idea.
0:00:57No, I get better eventually I think. I just want to get back to work.
0:01:02But I miss you guys and you did a good job last week. So it's good to be back. Yeah.
0:01:07I know something that will have helped your...
0:01:10While you've been sick you've had something to do.
0:01:13You've had the ability to play with the iPad 9.7.
0:01:18Not much actually.
0:01:20No?
0:01:20Not much. I mean I did... I'm using it. It's just...
0:01:25Last week I basically didn't touch my devices for like three days.
0:01:31I was just in bed and I didn't want to see Twitter, I didn't want to see Slack.
0:01:36So I've been using it for really just the past couple of days actually.
0:01:41Do I have to say that you were right again?
0:01:48I mean, you don't have to say it, but I think it would be the right thing to do.
0:01:53You know?
0:01:54You think it will.
0:01:55Okay, so you were right.
0:01:56Thank you.
0:01:57You want to say it like in full?
0:02:00#mikewasright.
0:02:01Thank you.
0:02:02Is that what you want to hear?
0:02:03Yes, that's what I want to hear.
0:02:05Fine.
0:02:06So, wow.
0:02:07So, I'm not going to hear the end of this, I know.
0:02:11Anyway, you were right when you said that I needed a second device to, you know, especially
0:02:17during the summer for the iOS 10 beta.
0:02:20So, this is what I'm doing.
0:02:21I put the iOS 10 beta 1 on the smaller iPad Pro and I'm keeping iOS 9, at least for the next few betas, until beta 3 or 4.
0:02:30I'm keeping iOS 9 on the big iPad Pro, which is where I get my writing done, because I just want to have a stable environment.
0:02:39So the iPad Pro, the small one, two points that immediately caught my attention.
0:02:46intention, the true tone display you really don't get it until you use it for a few hours.
0:02:53And it's so... like the best way that I can describe it is it's like night shift for the
0:02:59day. And by that I mean it makes your... the looking experience, the looking at the screen,
0:03:07the entire experience, it makes it better, more comfortable. And when you switch back
0:03:12even to the iPhone, not just to the big iPad Pro, but even to another non-true tone display
0:03:17device, it looks worse. It looks blue and it looks like, I don't know, it just looks
0:03:24less comfortable than the true tone display. So definitely one of the technologies that
0:03:31I would like to see coming to every Apple device.
0:03:34Yep. It is like Retina in that way. Like I want it on all of my devices now.
0:03:39And the second aspect I would say is after the big iPad Pro you kind of forget how light
0:03:49and comfortable and just manageable it is, the 9.7 iPad.
0:03:59Another point on the other hand that I really remain convinced of is I don't want to get
0:04:09my writing done on the small iPad Pro. Because the multitasking experience, the split view,
0:04:15there's really no contest between the big iPad Pro and this one. I mean, it's perfect
0:04:19for Twitter, reading, catching up on Slack.
0:04:22I find it as like a convenience as opposed to a way to do serious work. And that's where
0:04:29I see the two iPads as being different a lot of the time.
0:04:32Yeah. And I mean, I could get my writing done. It's just, I know what split view, what the
0:04:38assistant keyboard can be on the Big iPad Pro and I don't want to switch back.
0:04:42And I was thinking about this even when we were in San Francisco, about the fact that
0:04:48a lot of people, including me and you, we used to have desktop computer and the portable
0:04:53computer, we used to have iMacs and MacBooks, and now we were ending up with the Big iPad
0:05:00Pro and the Small iPad Pro.
0:05:01And in a way it's sort of like the same idea, which is you have the big device for work
0:05:07and a small device for everything else, like a portable device that you can carry around
0:05:11all the time. But there is a difference between the old age, I would say, and the new era,
0:05:17which is even the big computer, so even the big iPad Pro, I can carry around with me all
0:05:23the time. And it's got cellular, and it's got, you know, this beautiful display. So
0:05:27I would say that even if the basic idea is the same, which is you have two computers,
0:05:32one is big, the other is small. I think we're getting better in terms of portability and
0:05:40having a computer that's always with you. Because in the old era I couldn't bring the
0:05:44iMac with me.
0:05:45No, it's closer to having like a 15 or 17 inch MacBook Pro and a MacBook Air, but that
0:05:52kind of description doesn't effectively make the point that I'm trying to make. So that's
0:05:57why I've used like iMac and laptop, even though I'm kind of bending it a little bit in there
0:06:02but it's to make the point rather than to talk about like the actual logistics of carrying something like this around.
0:06:08Exactly. Yeah. So I'm very satisfied so far.
0:06:12That's all I ever want really.
0:06:14I know. The gold and red smart cover combo looks fantastic. It got Sylvia's own seal of approval.
0:06:24Oh.
0:06:25Yeah?
0:06:25Lucky boy.
0:06:26So I came back, so I didn't tell her nothing about the fact that I bought an iPad while
0:06:34I was in San Francisco.
0:06:35No, I've been meaning to ask you how this went down.
0:06:37So I knew she wouldn't understand on the phone.
0:06:41So I kept it a secret.
0:06:44And I even waited until we were back home, just me and her, not even in the car.
0:06:49So when I was unpacking, I was like, "Oh, by the way, I bought you a pen, I bought you
0:06:53a t-shirt, a bunch of stickers."
0:06:56And then the very last item, I was like, "Oh, by the way, I bought an iPad Pro."
0:07:00So the immediate reaction was, "Why are you wasting our money?"
0:07:05Which I was expecting.
0:07:06Then I explained my reasoning, and I was like, "By the end of this process, when I'm done
0:07:13with the beta, you can also use this device.
0:07:16It's not gonna be just mine.
0:07:17You can also use it with a pencil, you can draw, you can do whatever you want."
0:07:21So she was like, "Okay, I like this.
0:07:23I like the idea.
0:07:24I like the color, the combination of the gold and the red smart cover.
0:07:29I like it.
0:07:30So she's happy with it, because she knows eventually she's going to be able to use it
0:07:34as well.
0:07:35And in fact, she's thinking about actually getting a red iPhone case, because she likes
0:07:41the red smart cover so much.
0:07:43So all's well that ends well, I guess.
0:07:48I wanted to go back for a second to the multiple computer analogy.
0:07:53I agree with you Myke, I think it is a little bit closer to like having a 15-inch
0:07:57MacBook Pro and like the MacBook but what I do find interesting is the idea
0:08:01that you really prefer doing like some work on one and some work on the other
0:08:07and I mean going to the desktop and notebook you know idea for a long time I
0:08:15think people would look at a desktop like an iMac or a Mac Pro or go further back
0:08:19like a power mac and that's there like that's the work machine like if you're a
0:08:24designer that's where you're designing or that's where you're producing music or
0:08:27editing video and you have like a laptop to go to meetings and like do email at
0:08:33home and you know do like non heavy lifting type tasks and to hear like
0:08:41that carrying on and to how you guys are using your tablets like I think it's a
0:08:46really natural evolution I mean I think I mean clearly there are people out
0:08:49there who think it's ridiculous and I
0:08:51think that's that's silly because you
0:08:52guys are super productive you own your
0:08:55businesses like not much you can complain
0:08:57about but I just I don't know I find
0:09:00that that thread continuing today and I
0:09:04think for a lot of people they're kind
0:09:06of a step behind you where they're hey I
0:09:08have a MacBook or a MacBook Pro and
0:09:11that's where I do my work and then I
0:09:13have an iPad for like other stuff that's
0:09:15where I sit right I'd yeah have a lot of
0:09:17of work I could do on my tablet, but I choose to do it on the Mac still. But there are types
0:09:23of tasks that are just more comfortable on the iPad. So again, this whole idea of having
0:09:28multiple machines for multiple things is not a new one, and I think that puts a lot of
0:09:36credence into what you're saying. Yeah, I think so. I will keep going back to this time
0:09:44and time again that this is just the machine that I want to do my work on. Luckily or unlikely
0:09:50enough for me, there are multiple machines, right? But they offer me different, they offer
0:09:57me more choice than maybe two laptops, you know, in that way I feel like there's big
0:10:02differences because the software works different. That doesn't really happen very much on the
0:10:06Mac, right? So we're talking about like, it's not just the space that you get in Splitview,
0:10:11the keyboard being fundamentally different is a big thing and the 12.9 inch iPad Pro's
0:10:17keyboard is so much better than the 9.7 just because of all this extra space and the extra
0:10:24keys. So it's like that is actually kind of a different computer at that point. It's like
0:10:29imagine having, because Apple doesn't do this right? You don't get two laptops with different
0:10:33keyboards. They have this, well let's pull the MacBook Adorable out of this for the moment.
0:10:38Like if you look at the MacBook Pro's size differences, right, they're the same keyboard
0:10:43over the two different devices, you know, and you have one that is 13 inch and one that
0:10:47is 15 inch.
0:10:48So you can't really, I think, compare them in all the same ways.
0:10:51There's like two laptops.
0:10:53That's why I think it gets real messy, but I know that it works for me and I'm happy
0:10:57to hear that it's working for Federico as well.
0:11:00There was something I wanted to mention to you, TG, about the 9.7.
0:11:06I think when you use the software keyboard is when the split screen is not very useful
0:11:12at all, because you've got two apps taking up a small amount of size and then the keyboard
0:11:17takes up half the screen, so then you kind of have like two quarters, it's not very useful
0:11:22there.
0:11:23When you use an external keyboard, the split screen is way better than that.
0:11:27And I know because you use the software a lot, but now that you're playing around with
0:11:31external keyboards more, it's better.
0:11:32So like I always use the smart keyboard, which always on the keyboard cover. I can never
0:11:37remember. What is that product called?
0:11:39Smart keyboard.
0:11:40Smart keyboard. It always confuses me because that feels like that's the magic keyboard.
0:11:45And then I feel like it should just be called the keyboard cover, but it's not. And then
0:11:48you have something called the smart cover.
0:11:50That one's not magic.
0:11:52Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point. I think it's because it doesn't have a lightning
0:11:56pull on the bottom of it or something. I don't know. But because I use the keyboard cover,
0:12:02a lot more, it's not what it's called is it?
0:12:04What is it called?
0:12:05Smart keyboard. - Smart keyboard, right.
0:12:07- Yes. - Oh my word.
0:12:09Because I use the smart keyboard,
0:12:11I think it's better for me.
0:12:12And I think maybe if you use it more
0:12:14with the hardware keyboard,
0:12:15you'll feel that you can get more productive work
0:12:18out of the 9.7 inch screen.
0:12:21And when I was only using that to travel with,
0:12:25I was more constrained when I was in San Francisco,
0:12:28but I was able to do all of the work that I do.
0:12:30which is a less comfortable environment to do it in.
0:12:32But it's like when I use the MacBook Pro to edit a show,
0:12:37it's not as comfortable as when I use my 27-inch iMac
0:12:40to edit a show.
0:12:41- I just feel like the small iPad Pro is more,
0:12:45like it invites me to hold it instead of using a keyboard.
0:12:50- Yeah, it's way more suitable for consumption of stuff
0:12:54than the 12-miners, except for video, of course.
0:12:57But yeah. - Definitely.
0:12:59We, Sivi and I, we're still watching Orange is the New Black season 4 and it's all on the iPad Pro, the big one.
0:13:07Just because it's bigger and it looks fantastic.
0:13:10But definitely I think a keyboard with the split view helps.
0:13:15It's just, this is the kind of device that I want to hold, that I want to walk around the house with, that I want to sit on the couch with.
0:13:21with. So I think I'll be doing all my typing on the Big Appet Pro and use the small one
0:13:28for, you know, Pocket, Twitter, that kind of stuff.
0:13:31Yeah, and, you know, I do realize when I take the keyboard off sometimes, I'm like "Oh,
0:13:37this thing is so thin and light!" What a surprise! Oh yeah, that catches me. That catches me
0:13:43every now and then.
0:13:44Alright, we haven't even really gotten into follow-up yet, so let's take our first break,
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0:15:05I am going to ask you now Federico, because you mentioned the review when we were talking
0:15:10about the 9.7 and I saw you post a tweet the other day with you looked like you were opening
0:15:16a mind mapping application to begin the mind map for your next review. So I have two kind
0:15:22of questions for you. One, has the work begun and how is that going? And also, it's very
0:15:28funny to me that it seems like the only use you have for whatever application this is
0:15:32is to plan your iOS reviews.
0:15:35The second question is, I don't usually write articles that are this long, and the problem
0:15:45is I do find it useful to be able to outline these kind of huge stories in a mindmap.
0:15:55What application is that, by the way?
0:15:56That's my node, but I'll get to that in a moment.
0:16:00I also delete a lot of old mindmaps.
0:16:04Before taking the screenshot I just thought it was funny to keep the iOS 9 mindmap while
0:16:11taking the screenshot with the iOS 10 one.
0:16:15So there were other mindmaps, just a couple.
0:16:19I had one for...
0:16:22I don't remember, it was a bunch of old articles, like the really long ones, but two other mindmaps.
0:16:27I don't use it often, I just use it when an article gets too long, when a story has too
0:16:32many different topics.
0:16:35The app is MindNode and I'm actually having a bit of trouble and I'm pretty sure it's
0:16:41because of iOS 10.
0:16:43So I have iOS 10 beta 1 on my iPhone and on the small iPad Pro.
0:16:48On the big iPad Pro, which is where I want to write and do my research, I have iOS 9.
0:16:55And I'm having issues with iCloud sync because MindNode uses iCloud Drive.
0:17:01I'm not sure what is going on, I mean, it has to be some kind of compatibility problem
0:17:06or whatever.
0:17:07But basically the mind maps are not showing up on all of my devices.
0:17:11So if this doesn't work out I'll probably be switching to iThoughts, which is this other
0:17:15mind mapping app for iOS, that I actually also used last year, because I started in
0:17:23MindNode and eventually moved to iThoughts, because of some of the, I think, markdown
0:17:29and image features, but MineNode has some updates lately. Anyway, this is way too nerdy.
0:17:35We might come back to this at some point.
0:17:37We'll come back to this. Anyway, if it's not MineNode, it'll be iThoughts, which uses Dropbox.
0:17:44So yeah, the work actually started when we were in San Francisco, Myke, because I went
0:17:49to the sessions, I was taking notes. So right now I'm at the stage where I've attended a
0:17:57a few sessions that I really wanted to go to. I've watched some of the videos of sessions
0:18:03that I missed because we were busy doing our own road trips and stuff. And so I have a
0:18:11few, by few I mean like 10 to 15 maybe, notes in the Apple Notes app and these are all unstructured
0:18:22and comments from me.
0:18:24Why do you keep separate notes? Is it on different topics?
0:18:27It's on different topics and I have different notes for Siri, Proactive stuff,
0:18:37subscriptions for example, you know, all these different features are in a
0:18:42different note and I also have a master note where I keep my general like
0:18:48thoughts, my high-level comments. And I have a list of minor features and changes that
0:18:56I also want to tackle at the end of the review. So what I'm trying, at this point I'm at the
0:19:02stage where I think I have an idea for the introduction, and I need to kind of think
0:19:11about that and visualize that.
0:19:14But do you need to write the introduction first?
0:19:17Yes, yeah, I always do that because it kind of puts me in a mood where I know what kind of...
0:19:25The style or the tone?
0:19:29What kind of style, what kind of tone, what kind of steps I need to follow?
0:19:32What kind of angle I want to have? And this is...
0:19:35We've talked about this. This is how I write. I need to find an angle.
0:19:40I need to find a story before I move on to the next steps.
0:19:44So I think I found what I want to talk about
0:19:46And I have all of these different notes. So I'll be finishing up the the session videos that I missed and now
0:19:55after that, I'll need to
0:19:58visualize everything on a mind map and
0:20:00I need to do that because for
0:20:04Stories that are this long, you know with multiple pages on the site
0:20:11The mind map helps me view the weight of each section visually.
0:20:20So depending on all of the branches, all of the subnodes and the comments,
0:20:26at a glance I can see which section is going to be heavier in terms of content
0:20:33and in terms of research than others, and I can try to move things around
0:20:38to give the review a better flow so that I don't have like three really content-heavy
0:20:45sections all clustered in the same, you know, next to each other.
0:20:51If you look at the iOS 9 review last year, for example, there were shorter sections such
0:20:56as mail or share sheet kind of in the middle just to kind of break the flow and give the
0:21:02review a different rhythm so it could read better for people.
0:21:06But I'm sure that you would change, I assume that it goes through quite a lot of changes, the introduction.
0:21:11Oh yeah, it goes through many many changes and this is what I do during the summer when I write.
0:21:19If I think of a nice sentence or of a nice point, something that sounds nice and that I don't have in the review,
0:21:26review, either I make a note real quick or I just put it in the mind map, give it a different
0:21:36color or like a sticker or like I make it bold, whatever, just to indicate that I need
0:21:41to add that point.
0:21:43And as I go through each section, I collapse all of the different branches so I know when
0:21:51a section is done.
0:21:54And that's the advantage of a mindmap, that it also, in addition to a visual aid for understanding
0:22:01like the importance of sections, it also lets me view progress.
0:22:06So as I close down a branch, I know that I'm done, and I can move to the next one.
0:22:11So last year I had this mindmap structured in two halves, and as soon as I was done with
0:22:19the right one with the right side, I knew that the left side was easier because it was
0:22:26smaller sections, and that really helped me in the end.
0:22:29This year, one change that I want to make is I want to write the review in Ulysses,
0:22:36and of course I also have a backup in Dropbox, but I want to have each section as a Ulysses
0:22:43sheet and I want to see if by using filters in the app and by... this is
0:22:51actually CGP Grey gave me this tip... by using multiple sheets and then by
0:22:57sorting them by modification date I can see which section needs work so that the
0:23:04you know the ones that I modified go to the bottom and the ones that I
0:23:08haven't touched in a while float back to the top so I can see where I need to get
0:23:13my writing done, which is a different sort of process. Usually I tend to write sequentially,
0:23:20so I go from the introduction to the very end. Maybe this year, because there's no big
0:23:27story like last year with the iPad multitasking, essentially iOS 10 is a bunch of iPhone changes.
0:23:35So maybe this year not doing writing sequentially could be possible. There are some themes that
0:23:43need to be developed throughout the review from top to bottom, but some changes, I mean,
0:23:48I can write one section before the other one and there's no problem for me.
0:23:53So it's gonna be slightly different from last year, and I'm pretty confident that it's gonna
0:23:58be easier, especially because there's no huge feature like App and multitasking, and a lot
0:24:04of work that went into the iOS 9 review last year can be used this year, so I don't need
0:24:09to repeat myself for like split view what it means, you know, that kind of stuff. That's
0:24:13already done. Thank you Apple for not doing any more iPad changes yet.
0:24:18That's an interesting stance from you now. I say you've changed man, you've changed.
0:24:24Well I mean, do I need to be upset? Well I mean, you know, now you have your own
0:24:28ulterior motives here, right? Because you don't want to have to write so much. The
0:24:34Federico Vittucci of old would be looking at you now and being like "buddy, no iPad
0:24:37stuff?"
0:24:38I'm upset, yeah I know. And another...
0:24:42You're a slave to the review, Federico.
0:24:44Yeah, at this point I am. Another point, another point. Last year, if you remember Myke, I
0:24:53don't want to say I wasted time, but I, let's say I invested a few weeks of my review time
0:25:01work on these two stories for the website. One was about Safari View Controller, the
0:25:07other was about Search, Spotlight Search, Proactive, that kind of stuff. And the idea
0:25:14was there were two important features that could be developed as standalone stories on
0:25:20the site. So I took the time off from the review, I used the research that I had, so
0:25:28notes and my comments for those two individual articles. They went really well, but they
0:25:35took time off from my review time and when the time came that I needed to have those
0:25:41sections again, I spent way too much time trying to adapt those articles back into the
0:25:47review. So I don't think I'm gonna do standalone iOS 10 feature stories this year, so I'm just
0:25:55gonna focus on the review and it's kinda... I feel kinda itchy every time I see someone
0:26:03working on iOS 10 stories now because, you know, I wanna talk about it, I wanna write
0:26:09about it, but I just gotta keep my eyes set on the prize, which is the final review for
0:26:16the final version. I know that there's some stuff I could talk about now, I could write
0:26:22about messages, I could write about changes for developers, but I gotta keep in mind that
0:26:29people are expecting my review at the end, and I'm a single person and I wanna do this
0:26:35right, I don't wanna go crazy like last year, I feel like I'm on schedule, actually last
0:26:41year I started writing by the mid of July, this year it's not even the end of June and
0:26:46I'm already starting. So, you know, you gotta keep focused and just work on the review.
0:26:56It's gonna be a long summer, buddy. I know, I know. But, you know, I mean, in a way, it's
0:27:01kinda nice, like the way that I think of this, this was the conversation that would happen
0:27:05on ATP, right? You'd hear those guys on ATP and they'd be talking to John and asking him
0:27:09how the review's gone. Now John is done and that has moved to us now. So me and, it's
0:27:14and Steven's job to keep this dream alive and we ask you questions and then you can
0:27:20go huh and then we'll move on. We are just keeping the ball rolling man, this is the
0:27:25cycle of life. Yeah and I need to say that Myke and Steven will be helping me throughout
0:27:34the summer. I'll be sending you guys screenshots. We get our own jobs to do. Questions. I mean,
0:27:42If you want to do this on the show, you gotta help me out, you know, after the show.
0:27:46So yeah, it'll be interesting. I really mean this, but I think it's gonna be...
0:27:52I mean, it's not gonna be easy, it's gonna be slightly easier than last year.
0:27:57I spent so much time doing the sections on iPad multitasking, the speciality of multitasking,
0:28:03the design, the architecture, it was like half of the review was all about iPad multitasking.
0:28:08Now, I mean, it's not like we haven't got features this year because we got Siri, we've got messages, but I feel like that's more...
0:28:16I mean, that's more fun, especially messages. It's also easier because there's no huge architectural change or
0:28:24behavioral change on the iPad, which was really huge for me. And I get to reuse a lot of what I did last year.
0:28:32I mean, even if you look at Safari, if you look at the Notes app, for example, there's some new stuff.
0:28:37but just it's an incremental upgrade in many many areas of the OS. So we'll see.
0:28:43Yeah I mean I guess you've done a lot of the groundwork because Apple did the groundwork last year on those.
0:28:50Yeah I mean San Francisco, the font, oh my gosh.
0:28:52You don't need to waste time on that stuff.
0:28:54The section killed me last year. So yeah we'll see. Right now I would say I'm 70% optimistic about my status right now.
0:29:07>> Another thing, I mentioned how we're taking the mantle from ATP for this review thing.
0:29:14Next up in that idea is next up on follow up 30 minutes into the show. Many weeks ago,
0:29:20many, many weeks ago, I gave a kind of a review of the Canary home security system that I
0:29:27bought. And at that time, the thing that I felt the Canary was missing and that I was
0:29:31trying to solve with a third-party application was the ability to set the Canary automatically
0:29:39at night and unset in the morning without me needing to do anything about that. Now
0:29:44Canary has made an update to their device, the firmware and also their app, the software
0:29:51to change their modes and now they have, it used to be like privacy, armed and unarmed
0:29:58I think it was basically what it was. But now we have away, home and night. So away
0:30:05it sets, you know, it does that automatically when you leave. At home that means it's in
0:30:09privacy mode so there's no video being recorded right now because I'm at home. But now we
0:30:14have night mode which is so happy exists. Basically what happens now is you can set
0:30:20in the canary application for the home security camera, that's what it is, to turn on the
0:30:27at night at a time use that you set so that like so you could say oh we have it
0:30:34to at 2 a.m. the canary goes into armed mode so it's recording any activity so
0:30:40if there's any movement it will pick it up and then at 7 a.m. it will um it will
0:30:46unarmed again so it won't be picked up by anybody moving around the house so
0:30:49I'm really happy about this it's actually made it even better for me
0:30:53because now it's doing exactly what I wanted because there was some weird kind
0:30:57of weird bugs and edge cases I was running into by using a third party
0:31:01system to kind of hack the settings in a way like to it was like if me and Adina
0:31:06were both not at home, let's say we were on holiday, it would still set an
0:31:13onset because the app was kind of overriding the canaries understanding of
0:31:20who's at home because it was like I was telling it to unset so if we were both
0:31:26on holiday, we're on holiday together, at 7am in the morning it would just go into private
0:31:33mode so it wouldn't be picking up anyone coming home because I was kind of not really doing
0:31:37what I was supposed to be doing a bit. But now that doesn't happen because it always
0:31:42pays attention to who's at home before it makes any changes. So like if we're both not
0:31:47at home now it will still remain set even though we've asked it to unset in the morning.
0:31:52So I'm really happy about this.
0:31:54It's made it an even better product for me
0:31:56because as time was going on, I was getting more and more
0:31:58concerned about the fact that I had to pay attention
0:32:00to doing this and turning off the programming
0:32:03that I had set up every time we went away.
0:32:06So now it doesn't do this, and the Canary's even better.
0:32:09And I want to just thoroughly recommend this product again.
0:32:11We've been living with it for, I don't know,
0:32:14it's probably six months or something now.
0:32:16And I absolutely love it.
0:32:17It gives me the peace of mind.
0:32:19This is not a sponsor.
0:32:19Canary have never been a sponsor.
0:32:21but it gives me the peace of mind that I wanted.
0:32:23I can check in when I was away,
0:32:25when I was in San Francisco,
0:32:27I was able to check in at any time that I wanted to.
0:32:30I think you probably saw me doing this.
0:32:31- Yes, yes.
0:32:33- So like if anything was moving in the house
0:32:35or one thing that I really loved is I would know
0:32:37when Adina came home and I knew when she went to work,
0:32:40which I just like to know that, right?
0:32:42That's just the way that we are,
0:32:43we like to know that information.
0:32:45So yeah, I really love it
0:32:46and it's continued to be a worthwhile purchase for me.
0:32:49so I recommend it to anybody that wants a home security system.
0:32:54The Canary, I'm pretty sure it's getting home kit support with iOS 10, right?
0:33:00I have no idea about that.
0:33:01I think it was on a slide at the keynote.
0:33:04I think so.
0:33:06Because iOS 10 is adding cameras as home kit devices.
0:33:10Well, I'm assuming then there would be new hardware that might work.
0:33:13I think it would be a firmware update.
0:33:15Interesting. Interesting.
0:33:17I want to confirm that because if that's the case, I think I'm gonna get one.
0:33:21Man, if that is the case, I will be very happy because I really love the Canary and that
0:33:26was something that I was concerned about because I figured I would have to buy something new
0:33:30because, like, it wouldn't work for me anymore, right?
0:33:35Like it...
0:33:36Oh, there's a blog post.
0:33:37There's a blog post.
0:33:38There we go.
0:33:39There's a blog post.
0:33:40There we go.
0:33:41HomeKit support is what's coming.
0:33:42Yeah.
0:33:43And it looks like that they're gonna be changing something called Canary Plus.
0:33:47next generation product, Canary Plus. So it's a new camera?
0:33:51There you go, it's a new product.
0:33:52Oh okay.
0:33:53But my hope will be that I will, because you can link Canaries together, so you can have
0:33:57multiple ones in the house.
0:33:58Oh yeah.
0:33:59So when we move, which we will probably have moved hopefully by the time this one comes
0:34:04out, I mean I was probably going to get a second Canary anyway to put in our new home.
0:34:10So that will be good because then I could have the HomeKit one, link to the other one.
0:34:13I figured it would have to be a new device and I'm not upset about this from Canary's
0:34:18perspective because I think you need to have specific chips in them, don't you?
0:34:22There's like an Apple chip that goes in HomeKit devices.
0:34:25Am I remembering that correctly?
0:34:27No, I think you're right.
0:34:28Yeah, there's some sort of authentication that they use.
0:34:31Yeah.
0:34:32It's hardware based.
0:34:33I figured that this would happen to me if I wanted to have something HomeKit, but I
0:34:37just didn't think it was ever going to happen.
0:34:39So I'm pleased to hear that because I will definitely get a new Canary or an updated
0:34:43Canary. So that's good for me. Alright. Alright, let's take another break before we finish
0:34:49follow up. This week's episode is also brought to you by Ministry of Supply. Human sweat.
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0:36:48All right, so Stephen, there was some bad news for you this week, I think.
0:36:55I'm so sorry.
0:36:56yeah sometimes things happen and things
0:36:58that I own become like now I know this
0:37:02thunderbolt display will be a thing that
0:37:04you know isn't around forever. I have it
0:37:07right here. It used to be at home and I
0:37:09moved it to the office for many reasons
0:37:11so I'm just I'm just gently touching it
0:37:14sadly because he's gone. He's gone now.
0:37:17So I don't know if there's a say right?
0:37:20Thunderbolt display is five years old
0:37:22Apple had a little press thing like the
0:37:24the very end of the week saying we're no longer selling it. There are lots of
0:37:31third-party alternatives. Super strange thing to say. I mean so I think I think
0:37:38you guys talked about this on upgrade but I buy into the theory that there is
0:37:43a new one coming and that their timing got messed up and so the plan to
0:37:49discontinue these was already in the works and they couldn't do anything
0:37:53about that. Like if you stopped ordering the parts or you're out of parts you can't build
0:37:56anymore.
0:37:58Why do you own one of these? Like this is something that I couldn't really understand
0:38:02because it feels overpriced anyway like the thing is it's always been a thousand dollars
0:38:07and it's really expensive. I don't really know like I was kind of laughing on upgrade
0:38:12about the idea of somebody owning one of these anyway and then Jason reminded me that you
0:38:16do and I don't know why you do.
0:38:20And my Twitter followers know that I recently damaged it.
0:38:22Yeah, what did you do? You dropped it, didn't you?
0:38:24I dropped it. So there's like a chunk of...
0:38:26There's like a chunk of little aluminum missing and it messed up the glass.
0:38:30You escaped nicely from that one.
0:38:32I did. Because this glass is not like safety glass.
0:38:36So if you drop the front of an iMac, which I have done,
0:38:40it turns into some like really sharp pieces of glass you could like cut people with.
0:38:44It's crazy.
0:38:46I'll find a picture of it. I'm gonna dig this picture up for the show notes.
0:38:49dropped a cover glass like my last week
0:38:52is a genius and it was terrible I had to fill out a lot of paperwork.
0:38:55Anyways so it's discontinued. I hope
0:39:00there's a new one coming. The reason I
0:39:02own it and the reason that I'm interested
0:39:04in a new one is that it it really serves
0:39:08as a as a docking station that you can
0:39:10leave all of your stuff plugged into the
0:39:12display and then if you're like me with a
0:39:14MacBook Pro I can just like pick it up
0:39:16and unplug a couple of things and be like free of my setup. You know I think if
0:39:23you're running a Mac mini or Mac Pro maybe you have it because it like your
0:39:28IT department bought it for you. In fact there's a talk on Twitter about who buys these
0:39:31things like we just spent time in Dropbox and Facebook. Like Dropbox has
0:39:37bajillions of these things like everywhere you look in Dropbox is it
0:39:42there's a thunderbolt display. Clearly people like that it's it's branded and
0:39:46you know it's nice and neat but I like it as a notebook user that I can just
0:39:51walk away with like a minimal fiddliness. It is expensive there's no way around
0:39:57that and there's no way around the fact that Apple never updated like since 2011
0:40:05they haven't done a single thing there been like two firmware updates to it but
0:40:09even mine I think I wrote in my little blog post of like the saddest thing in
0:40:13the Apple ecosystem is using a $9 MagSafe 2 adapter on your $1,000 display.
0:40:19I guess it's the saddest thing.
0:40:22But it's gone.
0:40:23I hope there's a new one.
0:40:24I think it's a market they should be in.
0:40:26Clearly there's good money to be had, you know, with good margins.
0:40:32Clearly they want, you know, I think they like that people use them.
0:40:39And I think that there are a lot of people who really want them.
0:40:41They are nice displays.
0:40:43though this isn't Retina, it's still a great display. So I hope a new one's coming, I'm
0:40:49sure that I will need a new MacBook Pro to drive it, and I'm ready for my new Retina
0:40:54overlords to come visit. Maybe I'm being mean on you. A little bit. I am being mean on you,
0:41:00I'm gonna be a bit more mean on you. Do you know what is a really good docking station?
0:41:04Just a docking station. Right, cause you spent a thousand dollars on a screen, which is also
0:41:11docking station you could probably spend like $600 on a good screen in a good
0:41:15docking station like a Thunderbolt docking station. Yeah, so I actually have, it's actually in a
0:41:19cabinet in this office, I have a Thunderbolt like breakout box, whatever
0:41:24the one Jason has like the Belkin Thunderbolt dock and it was great I used
0:41:29it for a really long time and mine actually started getting um getting
0:41:34flaky so I kind of used that as an excuse to do this but absolutely I mean
0:41:39can buy a nice like you can go buy a Dell 4k display and a thunderbolt dock
0:41:44and it's actually probably better than the thunderbolt display but there are
0:41:49people who want it all in one and so we'll see I'm interested to see what
0:41:54they do if we if we get new macbook pros and we get new Mac pros and there's not
0:41:59a right display then I will look at what third-party you know retina level
0:42:04displays can I purchase and then go back to a setup like that at least at home
0:42:08and leave the Thunderbolt display here in the office.
0:42:11But we'll see.
0:42:13I think it could go either way.
0:42:14Again, I hope Apple is making something.
0:42:16I think they are.
0:42:17I'd be surprised if they bail on the display business,
0:42:22but you never know.
0:42:26-Well, we'll watch with bated breath
0:42:29for the screens that we can plug our iPads into, right?
0:42:32Isn't that what we're doing? Isn't that it?
0:42:34No. -So, let me --
0:42:35Actually, that's a really interesting question.
0:42:37if I mean if there were a solution to use an iPad with an external display
0:42:44with the two of you look at that for me it makes no sense right because the
0:42:49iPads a touch
0:42:51yes I don't think I don't I don't think it makes any sense right now I wouldn't
0:42:57say never because who knows like where this is going to go but like there are
0:43:02are so many parts of that that don't make sense.
0:43:07But I'm not going to say never on that one, to be honest.
0:43:11Because let's imagine in five years time,
0:43:13the iPad is as powerful as I hope it will be.
0:43:16And I want to sit down at a desk, do podcast editing on it.
0:43:21And I want to use iOS, but it would
0:43:24be nice to use an external Apple Pencil, an external trackpad
0:43:27to do editing and a logic on the iPad.
0:43:31It doesn't seem like an impossible world to me,
0:43:33like the same way that people plug their laptops
0:43:35into these setups.
0:43:37But I just think right now with the tools
0:43:39and everything that we have right now with iOS working
0:43:42as it does right now, it doesn't make any sense.
0:43:43But I won't fall that out forever.
0:43:45Federico, do you agree with that?
0:43:47- I really don't know if I want to
0:43:52or need to connect my iPad to another display.
0:43:56I feel like a lot of the reason why I love iOS is that I can touch it all the time.
0:44:04And I'm not sure...
0:44:06I have an Apple TV, I never used AirPlay for anything.
0:44:11I just feel like if you're a desktop person it makes sense to have external monitors.
0:44:16If you're an iOS person you just get used to the way that it is.
0:44:21I don't find myself wishing for it or craving any kind of display in any way.
0:44:29Yeah, but do you think it, like...
0:44:33Would you say right now that you would never do that?
0:44:37Never say never for anything, Myke.
0:44:39Exactly, yeah, exactly.
0:44:40That's how I feel.
0:44:41It's like, it seems crazy, but I have two iPads, so...
0:44:46On a scale of priorities and wishes there's other things I wish for than a display for
0:44:52my iPad.
0:44:53That's what I'm saying.
0:44:54Yeah.
0:44:55Yeah, I mean, I think the only way it would make sense is if the external display is also
0:45:01like touch sensitive.
0:45:02So you could have your iPad plugged in and put an app up on it and use it, you know,
0:45:08in a touch environment.
0:45:09I don't know, I mean, I think inherently they're just so different that it's not really a thing.
0:45:14It's something that, you know, people sometimes say, "Oh, I'd love to have more displays."
0:45:17It's like something to consider. But, you know, overall, like, the Mac hardware—on
0:45:24the hardware side, at least—is in this just, like, really funky spot of there's
0:45:28not a lot of good news going on in the Mac hardware scene. It seems like we're
0:45:35always just right around the corner for something new and magical. And maybe we
0:45:39are I hope we are but if you were to go
0:45:44buy a Mac today the only one I would
0:45:45really ever consider is the iMac I think
0:45:47everything else is is due for an update
0:45:51and the rumors peg it with such large
0:45:54updates that unless you just really need
0:45:56a notebook
0:45:57I wouldn't go buy a MacBook Pro right now
0:45:59yeah but uh I guess we'll see I guess
0:46:03it's like the you know the year that we
0:46:05had no devices anywhere until the fall. That's what it feels like to be a Mac user right
0:46:12now, always on the treadmill of old computers. Federico, you mentioned betas and I want to
0:46:19just touch base with you, I guess, that's a phrase I'm using now, about what you're
0:46:25feeling about the betas right now because you mentioned that you'd put iOS on your phone,
0:46:32I don't know a lot of people that have done that and you are watching, you watch OS3 as
0:46:37well, right?
0:46:38Yeah.
0:46:39So, okay, just flat out, up front, we are not advocating that you do this.
0:46:44Yeah, yeah.
0:46:45Don't do it.
0:46:46The connector podcast is not liable for any issues that you have.
0:46:49What is it?
0:46:50The things you gotta say.
0:46:52Don't do it, file radar, what else?
0:46:54Yeah, I think that's it.
0:46:56Yeah.
0:46:57Bounce to dinos.
0:46:58Apple people care.
0:46:59All of the things you gotta say.
0:47:01That's sad. That's sad, Myke. I would say there's been worse betas in the past. It feels
0:47:17like it's the most stable beta one. Not the most stable beta, the most stable beta one
0:47:23I tried on my phone.
0:47:26I do get the maybe a couple of times a day of home screen crash.
0:47:33You know when you get the spinner.
0:47:35Now when I use 10 you don't get the Apple logo, you get the spinner for a home screen
0:47:39crash.
0:47:40It's a big change.
0:47:42I get that a couple of times a day but it takes 5 seconds to restart the home screen
0:47:47and all of my apps work.
0:47:49I haven't seen any major showstopper kind of bug, I can get work done on my phone, it's
0:47:55alright.
0:47:56There's just some annoyances, such as the home screen crashing thing, and the fact that
0:48:03if you have a lot of betas from TestFlight, app betas from TestFlight, the App Store,
0:48:09the update section goes crazy.
0:48:12Now I basically don't know which updates are for TestFlight apps and which updates are
0:48:18for apps that are not as bright on my device. It's mentioned in the release notes so I'm
0:48:24okay with that. It's probably going to get fixed in beta 2. And overall it's a very stable
0:48:29beta and it's supposed to be a lot better based on what I heard last week. It's supposed
0:48:34to be a lot better even in beta 2. So I want to say solid job on the first beta of iOS
0:48:4010.
0:48:40I wanted to ask you about the multilingual keyboard.
0:48:43Alright.
0:48:44Because I can't imagine that there are really that many people that talk or write about this stuff that need...
0:48:50That's the English perspective, right?
0:48:52No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
0:48:52No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
0:49:22I get that, I get what you mean, I get what you mean.
0:49:24It's amazing. It's seriously one of the best changes to your standing ears.
0:49:30So if you happen to be one of those people who constantly needs to type into, what do you call it, Latin-based languages,
0:49:43so you know the QWERTY keyboard, such as in my case English and Italian, you can now...
0:49:51So it used to be you needed to switch between the English keyboard and the Italian keyboard
0:49:55before iOS 10.
0:49:57Because otherwise you wouldn't be able to type for example in Italian using the English
0:50:00keyboard because our correct would go crazy and it just, you know, it was the English
0:50:05keyboard for English words.
0:50:07So you needed to switch all the time and the keyboard switcher was slow, only iMessage
0:50:14could remember different keyboards for each conversation, but the whole system was kinda
0:50:20crappy.
0:50:21In iOS 10 you can install the keyboards from the settings, as usual, but then you don't
0:50:28have to switch anymore, because let's say that I'm talking to Myke and I'm using the
0:50:32English keyboard, then I switch conversation, I'm talking to my mom and I need to type in
0:50:37in Italian.
0:50:37I don't need to switch to the Italian keyboard anymore.
0:50:40I can just keep writing in Italian
0:50:43from the English keyboard.
0:50:44And as soon as the iOS keyboard picks it up
0:50:47that I'm typing in Italian, it gives me
0:50:49autocorrect suggestions in Italian,
0:50:51and it also suggests emoji in Italian.
0:50:54So it's not just words.
0:50:56It's also emoji, and it's amazing.
0:50:58And I've been testing this for the past week.
0:51:02- And I'm happy to say--
0:51:03- I'm happy to say that it's beta.
0:51:05to be as a final radar. But no, it really does work. It's seriously one of the changes
0:51:14that is going to make me save a lot of time every day. Because those few seconds that
0:51:19you switch within keyboards, they do add up over time. Like, it takes a couple of seconds
0:51:24every time. Imagine that, like, 20 seconds per day at least, maybe even 30 seconds per
0:51:29day for, I don't know how many days, for how many years, and it's a lot of time. And it's
0:51:35It's not just time, it's a lot of muscle memory kind of annoyance, you know, to do this all
0:51:41the time.
0:51:42It's annoying, it's tedious, and now it works from a single keyboard, and I'm so surprised
0:51:48that Apple is doing this, because I thought I was generally the only person complaining
0:51:53about this, but I do have to mention a lot of...
0:51:58I don't remember the names, and I'm sorry, there's only one Spanish website that comes
0:52:03of mine, it's called Apple Sphera, I think. But there's a lot of international Apple
0:52:07blogs that brought up this complaint over the years. So it does feel like a small victory
0:52:13for us, especially us Europeans. I know I got quite a few colleagues in Brazil, for
0:52:19example, and I know that those people brought up this problem many, many times in the past.
0:52:24So it does feel like it's a small victory for us, and it's very impressive. Now, the
0:52:32The thing is, it doesn't work for languages that use different keyboards.
0:52:37And by different keyboards I mean you cannot do English and Chinese, or English and Russian
0:52:44Cyrillic alphabet at the same time.
0:52:47So it only applies to Latin-based keyboards and languages.
0:52:51But in my experience it works really well, and it's an amazing change.
0:52:54So yeah, really happy about this.
0:52:56How are you feeling about WatchOS 3?
0:52:59I'm very interested in speed.
0:53:02Host of MacPow users, David Sparks,
0:53:04wrote a really nice little post about this a few days ago,
0:53:06'cause David, I think, installed it in San Francisco,
0:53:10'cause that's, he's a crazy person.
0:53:12- But he does.
0:53:13- But I'm interested in if you've noticed any speed changes
0:53:16and if they're applying to third-party applications
0:53:19that you're already using
0:53:20that haven't obviously been updated.
0:53:23- So it is faster.
0:53:25It's not as amazing as what Apple showed at the keynote.
0:53:29Well, because that's Watch 2, but that's another story.
0:53:32Or developers need to work to get there.
0:53:35I don't know if just--
0:53:36Well, but are you finding the speed being
0:53:39instant on Apple apps?
0:53:41Yeah, also Apple apps, yeah.
0:53:43OK.
0:53:44I mean, even if you launch the Home app, for example,
0:53:46it takes a solid four seconds for it to update and to give me
0:53:50the status of my lights.
0:53:51So it's not as immediate.
0:53:52And the Home app is pinned to my dock, whatever the name is.
0:53:57So it's still not there.
0:53:58It's faster, way way better, at least in terms of... I mean, I love the dock idea.
0:54:03I feel like it needs to be a little more intuitive to be able to swipe between apps, because
0:54:08I feel like I need to time or at least to control my swipe so that I don't jump over
0:54:13the next app. But that'll get better with the betas. I do like the idea a lot, and I'm
0:54:20sure that developers, as soon as they update with WatchOS 3 support, it'll be even faster.
0:54:25The general idea is I think watchOS 3 will make me love the Apple Watch, eventually.
0:54:34I do feel like I've been down on the Apple Watch because of the two problems.
0:54:41One was the performance and the second one was the software just had too many places
0:54:46where it didn't make sense.
0:54:48The friends interface, the going back and forth with the Honeycomb.
0:54:52I feel like the changes coming with watchOS 3, the dock, the speed improvements, how you
0:54:59can move between watch faces, I feel like I'll be... this is like the watchOS that I
0:55:06wanted to have from the beginning.
0:55:08And I feel like as soon as I have watchOS 3 and the watch 2, I'm probably gonna be a
0:55:14watch person like all the way in the Apple Watch.
0:55:18Because I saw you, Myke, using the Apple Watch, you use your Apple Watch all the time, I saw
0:55:24you how much you depend on notifications, and I wanna be like you, and I feel like,
0:55:29I'm honest here, I feel like watch rest 3 and watch 2, that'll do the job for me.
0:55:36Yeah, I am one of four.
0:55:39I am someone who uses the watch a lot and enjoys their Apple Watch a lot.
0:55:44and Jason spoke on Upgrade a few weeks ago in defense of the Apple Watch, I feel like,
0:55:49against people that are... There's been a lot of complaints about it, basically, and
0:55:53a lot of people saying that they've stopped using it, Steven being one of them, people
0:55:57giving up on it. But as the episode was called "Happy Apple Watch Users", I am one, and I'm
0:56:03looking forward to being even more happy about using the Apple Watch when it becomes even
0:56:09more useful with watchOS 3. So it's good to hear that it's getting better and you know
0:56:15I know I make like dumb jokes but like I really do believe that the speed that they showed
0:56:19on stage is probably most likely achieved by another watch which is you know it's still
0:56:25correct what they're showing watchOS 3 will be faster but any amount of faster is better
0:56:32than what we currently have. So I'm looking forward to trying it out for myself and of
0:56:36Of course it's probably worth mentioning, it probably isn't as fast in beta 1 as it
0:56:41will be by the time it's released anyway, right?
0:56:44There is a strong chance that they will continue to tweak as it goes along through the beta
0:56:48period to make it even faster and more responsive so I'm very interested to see what that ends
0:56:54up looking like.
0:56:56Now one of the biggest features, and I know it's one that I'm excited about for iOS 10
0:57:02and I know that it's met with different feelings by many different people is messages and I
0:57:07have played around with messages with Federico on iOS and we should talk about that but before
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0:58:59So I put iOS 10 on my iPad Air 2 which is a device that has kind of just been sitting
0:59:07waiting for me to turn into something. I plan to again when I move into my own home to mount
0:59:13that iPad in the kitchen somewhere. That is a plan that I have because I think it would
0:59:17be really nice to have a dedicated device for recipes and stuff. But until then it's
0:59:22just been sitting there waiting for, you know, to be put to use and it has been put to use
0:59:26as my iOS 10 device. And the only real thing that I've played around with because it seems
0:59:31to be the only real thing that I can do right now with it is to send crazy messages to Federico
0:59:36Yeah, pretty much. And we have been. It is incredibly buggy, which is expectable, expected
0:59:43I think at this point. There are little UI bugs all over the place, but it does work
0:59:48and I do really enjoy it. So we're talking about the effects that you can do to make
0:59:53the messages kind of explode. Federico sent me one message which was basically playing
1:00:01like lasers and strobe lights with a little sound.
1:00:04And even though my iPad was in mute,
1:00:07the sound kept playing every time I opened my message
1:00:09to that, which is awesome.
1:00:10- Sorry.
1:00:11- So like every time I opened my iPad, a rave would begin.
1:00:15And there was nothing I could do about that.
1:00:17So these are the kinds of bugs, but it is fun, right?
1:00:19I love the handwriting stuff that you can do.
1:00:22So you can draw little handwritten messages,
1:00:24which I will probably send all of my messages that way now
1:00:27with my Apple pencil, right?
1:00:28Just draw a little handwritten one.
1:00:29The stickers are really good.
1:00:30so they have the classic Mac stickers there.
1:00:33Something that I don't recall seeing in the keynote
1:00:37is there's GIFs, there's a GIF app
1:00:40just built into messages.
1:00:42And you can search for GIFs and it will give you GIFs
1:00:44and it has popular GIFs and that all works really well.
1:00:47So I'm happy to see that because that's much easier
1:00:51than opening an app to do it.
1:00:52And digital touches there, and that's kind of cool.
1:00:56I like that you can take photos
1:00:58and draw on the digital touches.
1:01:00you can send a heartbeat, which I'm not 100% sure
1:01:03is real in any way, 'cause I don't know where my iPad
1:01:07is getting my heartbeat from.
1:01:09But I think it's really good.
1:01:12I think it makes messages feel young and alive again.
1:01:16I showed some of this stuff to Adina,
1:01:18and she said, "It looks like Facebook Messenger."
1:01:20And I think that's the point.
1:01:22I think that's what they're attempting to do here,
1:01:24was to make Facebook Messenger, like an app like that.
1:01:28That is what they wanted to do.
1:01:30So I am very excited about some of the things
1:01:35that I might be able to do with this down the line.
1:01:38All of the sticker packs, I'm looking forward to those.
1:01:40And also some of the apps that people might be making,
1:01:43like the little game apps or being a way
1:01:46to send people money in messages and stuff like that.
1:01:49I'm excited about this.
1:01:50And now Federico, I don't know if you've tested it
1:01:52with anyone other than me, but what are your feelings?
1:01:56Do you kind of agree with me?
1:01:57I think Messages is the blockbuster announcement.
1:02:00- It is. - Of WWDC.
1:02:01And you don't, Lisa, I was spending time with developers
1:02:05at the conference and I don't wanna say
1:02:08that no one was excited because I have been talking
1:02:11to developers who are coming up with some great ideas
1:02:14and I think it's gonna be super fun for two reasons.
1:02:16One, to see what developers come up with
1:02:18and two, to see what App Review rejects this fall.
1:02:21But we'll talk about this in the future.
1:02:24But I didn't get the idea that the WWDC crowd was the right one for this kind of announcement.
1:02:30But I think messages will be super popular.
1:02:33And I think it's obviously inspired by Facebook Messenger in terms of the big emoji, the GIFs, and the App Platform, the whole idea of a messages app store.
1:02:44It's also inspired by what others have been doing, if you look at WeChat or Line, for example.
1:02:49I think it makes messages super fresh.
1:02:54It's gonna be fun to personalize conversations in a bunch of different ways, thanks to apps,
1:03:02stickers and that kind of stuff.
1:03:03There will be a lot of money flowing in the iMessage App Store, especially because it's
1:03:08super easy for developers to come up with a sticker pack.
1:03:11I wanna see how Apple will tackle the possible copyright infringement problems, just because
1:03:17it's so easy to come up with the sticker pack. I mean, it's just a bunch of images, you drop
1:03:21them in a folder, you run Xcode and you got yourself a sticker pack to sell on the App Store.
1:03:25I've been thinking about this. I think that they just made the decision to just let it fly and deal
1:03:30with it on a case-by-case basis. It's like, there's nothing you can do. Like, if you catch it in
1:03:35review, stop it. If it goes out and then you wait for somebody to complain and then you pull it down,
1:03:40like, I feel like you either do this or you don't do it. If you do it, this is definitely going to
1:03:43to happen, so you just need to accept that. I think that's kind of the process that you
1:03:47go through in coming up with this decision the way that they have.
1:03:50But I feel like even if you set aside the fun aspect of stickers and little gaming apps,
1:04:00even from a productivity perspective, I feel like we're going to see utilities on the iMessage
1:04:06apps or stuff for sharing documents or calendar events or images, media, files. I feel like
1:04:14it's really up to the developers imagination at this point and it's going to be this fun
1:04:20place kind of like Facebook messengers. But even for stuff like if you look at what developers
1:04:29were doing with keyboards in terms of utilities and productivity, imagine that in a much better
1:04:37native way in iMessage. I don't feel like it's going to move people away from Slack,
1:04:43of course, but for one-on-one conversations or even smaller groups of people that don't
1:04:48want to sign up for Slack, I feel like it's going to be possible to save time when sharing
1:04:55stuff on iMessage that isn't necessarily, you know, King Kardashian stickers or big
1:05:00emoji. I'm really curious, and I'm getting already a few emails from developers who are
1:05:06making non-fun, because they're more of utility-based apps for iMessage. I think it's going to be
1:05:14really interesting to see what they come up with.
1:05:17I wonder how these apps just being on iOS will affect that, where a lot of people still
1:05:24want their productivity stuff on the Mac.
1:05:27And we spoke a little bit about it last week,
1:05:29these apps are not coming to the Mac to a degree.
1:05:33Some of it you'll see in like read only,
1:05:35but it's even I think dependent on exactly
1:05:37what the app is doing.
1:05:39And a big reason--
1:05:40- I think that's so sad.
1:05:42- It's disappointing, but a big reason that
1:05:45I actually had thought about but then it didn't come
1:05:47out of my mouth was the fact that these are going
1:05:51to be UI kit apps written for iOS,
1:05:53and of course, if you're on a Mac, it's not very helpful,
1:05:58'cause there's still not a great way
1:06:00to have the same code base on both platforms.
1:06:04And maybe that's another reason that they're not there,
1:06:09but I really want to see Messages be a platform
1:06:15that you can use on either type of device.
1:06:19And I think even extending it to the web at some point,
1:06:21like Facebook Messenger is sort of web first
1:06:24and they have mobile clients,
1:06:25like why couldn't I sign into iCloud.com
1:06:28and do like really nice messaging on the web
1:06:31if I'm at a PC, so I think--
1:06:33- Could it, I know this is like gonna make people's skin crawl
1:06:37but could there have been or could there be a way
1:06:40to make a messages app which is actually just a web view
1:06:44which could allow for some of this stuff?
1:06:47Would it work on the web?
1:06:48Like would you be able to do this stuff
1:06:50iOS and the web where you can't do it on iOS and the Mac? I mean they would need
1:06:55to have a technology story there for developers to use but there's nothing
1:07:00holding them back from doing that. There's nothing holding them back from saying hey if
1:07:03you want to do it on the Mac this is how you do it or making it really
1:07:07easy to take an iOS application and port it to the Mac you know in this in this
1:07:13regard so again I think we're probably not the best three to talk to that talk
1:07:18to that sort of thing but I know as a user it's going to be disappointing to
1:07:23like or even frustrating if I'm working on my Mac all day and like needing to
1:07:28pick up my phone or my iPad to like interact in a way that is meaningful with
1:07:35with somebody else so maybe it'll come you know maybe it's like we said last
1:07:39week where they have a plan for this and it just didn't get done but I sure hope
1:07:44that something's going on there because having messages like fractured to have
1:07:48like you have these features over here
1:07:50but if you're on the Mac you don't. Like look at
1:07:52photos right? Photos on iOS and photos on
1:07:55the Mac are more or less like lock and
1:07:59step right? So they added memories to
1:08:01one the other one got memories and
1:08:04the face engine got redone, the face engine
1:08:06got redone on iOS as well. So they can do
1:08:09it to a degree like that is part of
1:08:11their strategy for some reason messages
1:08:13just isn't there yet and I really think
1:08:15that if messages going to be a real
1:08:17contender that whatever apps or like stuff that you use within it you have
1:08:23available no matter where you're sitting and hopefully they get there.
1:08:27The idea about the contender I don't agree with.
1:08:30Well I think a good messaging platform is ubiquitous. One reason
1:08:35Slack is so damn good is that I can use it on any device and it's the same
1:08:40everywhere. I don't have to think about oh I'm on my iPad so I can't do this
1:08:44thing in Slack. Well it works the same everywhere.
1:08:46Well, I would ask that you look at WhatsApp, right?
1:08:49I mean, the idea of how good the platform is to use
1:08:53is a different argument to if it will be a success.
1:08:58Sure.
1:08:59And I think, like, it depends what you mean by contender.
1:09:02I'm being facetious, but like, I'm
1:09:04just trying to understand it, right?
1:09:05Like, when you say contender, do you
1:09:07mean as a well-rounded good application
1:09:09or as a contender to Facebook Messenger WhatsApp Telegram?
1:09:14Because whilst some of those apps have varying support on different devices, I think as long
1:09:20as you're on iPhones, Apple is going to be totally fine and they're going to probably
1:09:25eat up even more of the message market than they currently have.
1:09:28And not having full support for apps on the Mac is not going to hold them back.
1:09:33I mean, clearly that's what Apple is thinking about at this point, right?
1:09:37They have WhatsApp in their sites.
1:09:38There's no doubt about that.
1:09:39But as someone who like that's,
1:09:42and maybe this is the problem,
1:09:43I just don't want what they want.
1:09:45Where it's,
1:09:46I think it is gonna be frustrating for users
1:09:49and like that's always,
1:09:51like if Apple's gonna go after WhatsApp, for example,
1:09:54I think that's fine, like it's great.
1:09:56Like they should, as a platform vendor,
1:09:58there should be a really good first party messaging solution
1:10:01but the iPhone's not Apple's only platform.
1:10:04And it's, that's where my frustration comes in a little bit
1:10:08And I'm sure that if they see great success in mobile,
1:10:13then it's gonna take off and they can put more resources
1:10:16into it and it'll become a bigger part of their company
1:10:19and then I think the Mac will benefit from it.
1:10:21But at this stage at least, I think there's just going
1:10:25to be this weird dichotomy.
1:10:29'Cause they brought it halfway there.
1:10:31- It is so weird, right?
1:10:32Because what you just said I totally agree with.
1:10:35They'll see if it takes off.
1:10:36they surely already know this. They know how many people use messages right now and that's
1:10:42got to be enough.
1:10:43Well they said it's the most used application on the iPhone.
1:10:46So if nobody's using it on the Mac or they've just decided that this is something they don't
1:10:51think is important, right? Because they obviously also know how many people use it on the Mac
1:10:57and maybe that difference is massive. I doubt that but it's just such a weird thing. I mean
1:11:03maybe there isn't an easy way to make it work so maybe that what they did need to
1:11:08do was to build some kind of like pseudo UI kit that only works with the messages
1:11:12app store if that's what I wanted to do.
1:11:14Well they have that in photos they have UX kit but what I think the
1:11:18reason is so strange is that whatsapp is just a mobile application like
1:11:24whatsapp and Facebook messages are just iPhone apps.
1:11:27Well messages... They have web apps now but yes the point is correct they are
1:11:31effectively just mobile applications. Right. Messages started life really as
1:11:37iChat like at least from the Mac user perspective messages got bolted on to
1:11:42something else that was already there and then to break that and like diverge
1:11:45down a different path. I understand why they're doing it, I'm not arguing why they're
1:11:49doing it. It's just like a point of contention I feel that it's like there's
1:11:53this weird stress between where Apple wants to go and where they are today.
1:11:57- Yep.
1:11:57- And how do you get there?
1:11:59- It's like the Mac app is kind of like
1:12:01hanging onto the ankles, right?
1:12:03It's like dragging messages back.
1:12:05It is weird, it's weird,
1:12:08'cause it's weird that you have any support, right?
1:12:11You put some in, but it's not really good enough.
1:12:13- But that support is really
1:12:15why I moved everything to iMessage.
1:12:18Before, SMS was useful, but if you were at work all day,
1:12:22and a lot of people, we're lucky,
1:12:24a lot of people can't use their phones at work.
1:12:26but we're like, there are rules against it,
1:12:28active rules against it if you're sitting
1:12:29at a desk somewhere, someplace secure.
1:12:31But if it's on the Mac, maybe it's fine.
1:12:34And so for me, I think one reason I have used iMessages
1:12:37and don't sign into AIM anymore
1:12:39is because it's just at the computer.
1:12:41And when I pick up my iPhone or tablet, it's there.
1:12:43And that's just gonna be a strange experience.
1:12:46And maybe it's not as big of a deal as I think it is.
1:12:49Like this part of my thought process says,
1:12:52it's really cool that all these apps are there
1:12:54and we're gonna play with them for a while
1:12:55And then we're just all going to use stickers.
1:12:57And like, we're not going to be doing productivity, we're not going to be building virtual ice
1:13:01cream cones together, even though I want to do that with the two of you guys very badly.
1:13:05We can do it in real life if we want to.
1:13:07Yeah, a lot.
1:13:08I just want to posit one productivity thing.
1:13:12An app that can schedule calendar events?
1:13:14That'd be awesome.
1:13:15Oh.
1:13:16Yeah.
1:13:17I'm thinking, see, I'm thinking about that stuff.
1:13:20events, sharing tasks on something like Trello for example, or sharing files. I'm pretty
1:13:29sure developers will come up with all kinds of crazy ideas, which is why I mentioned we'll
1:13:33have to see if App Review likes what is going to happen or if it will be like a repeat of
1:13:39what happened with widgets and custom keyboards a couple of years ago. We'll see, I don't
1:13:44know. It's going to be fun. Hopefully Apple learned from their own mistakes and it's
1:13:49are going to happen again, we'll see. We'll discover the truth in three months.
1:13:56Truth is out there. Truth is in the cloud.
1:13:58You just gotta keep waiting for the betas. File those radars, right?
1:14:02Yeah, always file the radars. Always file the radars.
1:14:05It really does matter to people at Apple and all the teams. They worked really hard on
1:14:10this, so file a radar. If you want to find our show notes for this
1:14:14week's episode, head on over to relay.fm/connecty/97. Oh my word, 97. Are we prepared at all for
1:14:22episode 100? Don't think so. Nope. If you have any ideas, let us know. If you want to
1:14:28find Federico online, he is @vitiici on Twitter, and he writes over at maxstories.net and is
1:14:34the host of Canvas and Remaster as well on relay.fm. Two great shows that you should
1:14:39check out. Stephen is @ismh on Twitter and he is at 512pixels.net and also the host of
1:14:46Lift Off and Ungeniusd as well. You should check those shows out, they're a lot of fun.
1:14:50I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. I host too many shows to mention but they are also on Relay.fm as
1:14:55well. You should, you know, go check them out. They're lots of good shows on Relay.fm.
1:14:59Thanks again to our sponsors this week, the great people over at Braintree, willing.com
1:15:04and Ministry of Supply. But most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next time.
1:15:09Until then, say goodbye, gentlemen.
1:15:11Arrivederci.
1:15:12Adios.
1:15:12Adios.