The Accidental Tech Podcast

166: Fitness Turd

 

  yeah where's John why do we not have [TS]

  John I'm working on it and I don't can't [TS]

  go to connect yet might be just you and [TS]

  me my god can you imagine the internet [TS]

  revolt that would happen [TS]

  what do you think they would hate more [TS]

  two hours of fish or the show without [TS]

  John probably the show without John I [TS]

  think they would prefer the two hours of [TS]

  fish I think your 800 jobs here [TS]

  oh hi John what would you think people [TS]

  would dislike more wood people dislike [TS]

  hearing fish for two hours more than [TS]

  hearing the show without you or what [TS]

  people dislike hearing the show without [TS]

  you and prefer to hear fish for two [TS]

  hours i think they would prefer to hear [TS]

  the fish that's exactly what we [TS]

  concluded that the internet would find [TS]

  in some smite smoke Marcone I different [TS]

  if you are not here I think about it I [TS]

  don't really hear any fish because again [TS]

  I never listen to the live string but [TS]

  the few moments I remember hearing and [TS]

  it's like some terrible rights like this [TS]

  they play guitars and bass and drums and [TS]

  you know and then someone says something [TS]

  for like 22 seconds in the middle and [TS]

  then if you even if you don't like it's [TS]

  like you're making people listen to you [TS]

  know scream music for someone that I [TS]

  don't know that I think we'll be fine [TS]

  I mean fit to be fair I think more [TS]

  people like fish than like us it might [TS]

  be these people but in total [TS]

  it is currently the 13th of April it is [TS]

  a wednesday night we just released this [TS]

  week's episode or Marco did a few hours [TS]

  ago but because John is disappearing for [TS]

  a little bit we are going to be where we [TS]

  are obviously recording right now so we [TS]

  expect that Apple by Nintendo on the [TS]

  fourteenth of april and we won't get a [TS]

  chance to talk about it until I think [TS]

  the 22nd which is the next time we'll be [TS]

  recording so expect all the the juicy [TS]

  and interesting things to happen over [TS]

  the next week [TS]

  you're welcome I mean at least my car [TS]

  was made obsolete yesterday [TS]

  that's true actually completely forgot [TS]

  about that yeah they hit the tussle with [TS]

  the ugly stick [TS]

  come at me haters yeah i had i don't i [TS]

  don't really regret not getting the new [TS]

  one [TS]

  you know because like they they [TS]

  literally used to facelift like [TS]

  yesterday and my car is something like [TS]

  two-and-a-half weeks old but the new one [TS]

  I think overall is probably better you [TS]

  know that it has better headlights it [TS]

  has has a center console which I had to [TS]

  like buy separate third-party center [TS]

  console shoving their it comes with one [TS]

  I didn't realize it was third party [TS]

  that's interesting [TS]

  yeah well the day they had a first one [TS]

  there but the reviews are terrible [TS]

  so they stop selling it so you know it's [TS]

  there's a couple of minor improvements [TS]

  but nothing that really makes me unhappy [TS]

  that i bought you know two-and-a-half [TS]

  weeks ago [TS]

  rather than today yeah the the front [TS]

  kind of grill fascia area just I don't [TS]

  dig it and a lot of people are coming [TS]

  after me and you know kind of rightfully [TS]

  so and say oh well you're just judging [TS]

  it because it doesn't look like an old [TS]

  car [TS]

  look it doesn't look like something that [TS]

  that blows up old plants and dinosaurs [TS]

  and you're just being a stupid old man [TS]

  and yeah you know that might be guilty [TS]

  as charged and maybe in a few years I [TS]

  won't need to see a grill up front but [TS]

  sitting here today I just don't think [TS]

  it's pretty and somebody had tweeted I [TS]

  can't recall who was but somebody [TS]

  tweeted and it's been making the rounds [TS]

  endlessly the picture of Keanu Reeves as [TS]

  mr. Anderson and wenwen in the first [TS]

  movie they his his lips disappear and [TS]

  his face just is it you know it's all [TS]

  kind of one big flat area and and it is [TS]

  a very very similar likeness to the [TS]

  updated tesla model s and in in the [TS]

  model 3 as well and the X because like [TS]

  the Dalai basically this all started [TS]

  with the ex that's true forgot about [TS]

  that [TS]

  I mean ultimately i don't i don't think [TS]

  it's really going to be that big of a [TS]

  deal i think it's more just like we are [TS]

  not used to seeing cars that are [TS]

  designed this way and that's why it [TS]

  looks weird because it's unfamiliar but [TS]

  exactly a few months you know what you [TS]

  are seeing this on the road and [TS]

  everything everyone's gonna be like okay [TS]

  that's just how cars look sometimes no [TS]

  no that's not it [TS]

  we talked about this last week just like [TS]

  you forgot everything we talked about [TS]

  the problem that the model 3 was the one [TS]

  where they can whip [TS]

  sewing shot disappearing matrix thing [TS]

  was going around because the model 3 [TS]

  what we've seen of it anyway because he [TS]

  and who knows what's final but we've [TS]

  seen the model 3 is there's nothing [TS]

  there there's no dividing line different [TS]

  color patch different material it is [TS]

  just one continuous schnoz and as as we [TS]

  talked about last week like it's not [TS]

  it's not so much that uh that we demand [TS]

  to have a grill right it's that the car [TS]

  looks like it has a place where grill [TS]

  should go like the they haven't fully [TS]

  embraced the idea that they don't need [TS]

  to pull air into that spot they have [TS]

  built the car with a spot where grill [TS]

  would go but just neglected to put that [TS]

  the same reason to face looks weird with [TS]

  a big smooth thought where the mouth [TS]

  should go because we know that's where [TS]

  the mouth goes if you want to draw [TS]

  something that doesn't have a mouth [TS]

  don't draw the place where the mouth [TS]

  goes and then just erase it right that [TS]

  the x and the add the US they have a [TS]

  grill they have a little t-shape thing [TS]

  which i think is pretty good for Tesla [TS]

  tu every brand has some sort of like [TS]

  signature grille shape that they go with [TS]

  me change it over the years but you know [TS]

  how he's got that big sort of big mouth [TS]

  trapezoid thing they go with well it [TS]

  does look a little bit like a creepy [TS]

  partial mustache like the skinny stash [TS]

  you know it looks like it looks a little [TS]

  like alfa romeo 2likes not like [TS]

  everybody you know [TS]

  BMW has the kidneys so that is a pretty [TS]

  big signature there [TS]

  what other brands have changed their [TS]

  shape over the years and sometimes I [TS]

  stick with it for like three or four [TS]

  models generations and they go to the [TS]

  different shape anyway this texting [TS]

  thing with the little tea with their [TS]

  actual team logo inside it [TS]

  that's fine it's kind of like a grill I [TS]

  have to see this one in person because [TS]

  from some angles the little little [TS]

  mustache they have their devices as far [TS]

  as I'm concerned usually because they [TS]

  put a place for the grill and they put a [TS]

  grill and I made that basically is a [TS]

  girl's not a big grill but at the grill [TS]

  like why else have a big like opening in [TS]

  black hair because because other [TS]

  internal combustion engine guards have [TS]

  won the model 3 has the same place for [TS]

  that thing to go but there's nothing [TS]

  there so it looks weird and like i said [TS]

  last show if they if they want to go [TS]

  with the no girl in the front because [TS]

  they can find go for it embrace it make [TS]

  it look but make it look like a car that [TS]

  never had a grill was never intended to [TS]

  have a grill and the kind of candidate [TS]

  with my last because they decided with [TS]

  markers car to put a big giant ball gag [TS]

  thing there it looks like a big black [TS]

  grille but it's just a clear plastic [TS]

  like someone shoved a rubber ball into [TS]

  the mouth of the car and some more oh [TS]

  but that but that you know that they [TS]

  made the decision you can't really [TS]

  reshape the whole car the other things [TS]

  the factor is a pedestrian safety and [TS]

  crash standards probably dictate at the [TS]

  very least the minimum height of the [TS]

  front of the car so you can't really go [TS]

  whole hog into a style that totally [TS]

  neglects the grill so I'm not entirely [TS]

  sure what to do to resolve this but I [TS]

  know the answer is not with the three [TS]

  did which is make a car with a place for [TS]

  a grill and just failed to put one there [TS]

  yeah the side view i'm looking at this [TS]

  post on Jalopnik will have the show [TS]

  notes the if you look at it from the [TS]

  side of the card actually doesn't look [TS]

  bad at all but any sort of front angle [TS]

  just looks it's just this this this vast [TS]

  emptiness and it just i agree with you [TS]

  John be it looks like a grill belongs [TS]

  there is an American isn't there and i [TS]

  think i prefer this to the audi I will [TS]

  swallow the world grill that's become so [TS]

  trendy for audi these days which is just [TS]

  awful or the new Lexus ones too and it [TS]

  didn't look santoyo you're right and [TS]

  you're like says the bowtie shape and [TS]

  it's kind of like a ghost got its that [TS]

  that's even worse [TS]

  yeah it's like the entire front of the [TS]

  car yeah it's so yeah but that's [TS]

  efficient or inefficient for cool [TS]

  if they use all that space but you're [TS]

  talking about you're still saying you [TS]

  don't like this because KCBS has a girl [TS]

  like that little mustache [TS]

  yeah see that's just it doesn't it [TS]

  doesn't fill the area i see there's a [TS]

  big expanse under the you feel like a [TS]

  place where more able to go in there is [TS]

  exactly and they actually exaggerate [TS]

  because if you look they actually extend [TS]

  down like the things around the fog [TS]

  lamps the material goes down even [TS]

  farther making room even more room for [TS]

  the non-existing grill yep exactly i [TS]

  just don't care for it anyway I'm sure [TS]

  looks fine and once I see them in person [TS]

  which you know should be any day now [TS]

  soon as it's dark silent because they're [TS]

  all over here to the render judgment of [TS]

  seeing in person but I think it looks [TS]

  better than 3 by far [TS]

  yeah it does look better than the 3i I [TS]

  think so too and I think of all they're [TS]

  like including agent if you look at the [TS]

  x and yes and the three together I think [TS]

  it looks the best out of all three of [TS]

  them out of the current the current ones [TS]

  they're producing although one concern I [TS]

  have for all three of them is that front [TS]

  area that is that his body color is it [TS]

  going to get full of bugs and chips [TS]

  oh good point you know like I think [TS]

  that's always the most damaged area of [TS]

  any car i have because always just [TS]

  covered just put a bra on it but God [TS]

  that we started there again [TS]

  yeah we going back to this God anyway so [TS]

  i agree i understand that this will [TS]

  probably at some point [TS]

  look normal to me but today I don't care [TS]

  for and I think it looks ugly [TS]

  alright so let's not talk about Teslas [TS]

  anymore and let's start to follow up in [TS]

  our first follow-up items let's talk [TS]

  about Teslas and chargers and charging [TS]

  it bite now you're wrong instructions [TS]

  this is another thing but also that room [TS]

  was also right about this last show we [TS]

  just didn't get a chance to pull them i [TS]

  meant to do it but we had moved on by [TS]

  that in the discussion about how many [TS]

  supercharger stations there are verses [TS]

  how many gas stations and factoring how [TS]

  long it takes to charge and all the [TS]

  other infrastructure needed if we were [TS]

  to convert all the existing cars to [TS]

  electric with a snap of our fingers and [TS]

  so on so forth on point we didn't bring [TS]

  up but again with the chatroom did was [TS]

  that even though superchargers take a [TS]

  long time to charge you can get you can [TS]

  fill up your electric car someplace [TS]

  other than the quotable gas station in [TS]

  when you drive it back to your house you [TS]

  just plug it in and a lot of people were [TS]

  saying that it is long as you don't [TS]

  drive more than half the range of your [TS]

  car per day you never need to go to a [TS]

  supercharger unless you're going on a [TS]

  long trip so you need for your [TS]

  supercharged be just when you go back [TS]

  home you plug it in and I was thinking [TS]

  about this when I was discussing the [TS]

  charges thing last time hand it's kind [TS]

  of in the middle because I mean all [TS]

  Marco can tell us but like I recall him [TS]

  saying somewhere and Twitter that it [TS]

  takes like three days to charge his car [TS]

  to full capacity from the plain old wall [TS]

  outlet [TS]

  yes so if you have if you only have a [TS]

  plan a while it's about three days for a [TS]

  full charge but if you're spending this [TS]

  much on a car I I don't think it's that [TS]

  much to ask to spend another few hundred [TS]

  two at most a couple thousand dollars to [TS]

  do whatever it takes to get a [TS]

  high-powered outlet in your garage if [TS]

  you have a 50-amp outlet the name of [TS]

  40-50 that Tesla recommends that charges [TS]

  the entire car in something like seven [TS]

  hours depending on how big a battery you [TS]

  have so if you're buying a 70 or 80,000 [TS]

  35,000 the car maybe but as these things [TS]

  come down in price like basically i [TS]

  would say if you're asking people to [TS]

  change their home in some way they [TS]

  basically become like a little charging [TS]

  station like that's part of the [TS]

  infrastructure part of the [TS]

  infrastructure you don't have to build [TS]

  gas stations but every single person [TS]

  when these cars has to always have a [TS]

  dryer outlet in their garage or by one [TS]

  of the big super tired things whatever [TS]

  just fine like you said four people [TS]

  model SN the model 3 [TS]

  well not every person like you know [TS]

  underscore friends pretty smooth he is [TS]

  still seen he bought the car like in [TS]

  December he's still just only has the [TS]

  the regular outlet and he just he drives [TS]

  a few enough miles on it doesn't really [TS]

  matter [TS]

  this is taking a trip which case using [TS]

  superchargers so and right now I still [TS]

  have that too because electricians in [TS]

  New York take a while to get back to you [TS]

  so I still have the plane out as well [TS]

  and so far it's been totally fine [TS]

  because I just I'm not driving hundreds [TS]

  of miles a day it would only be a [TS]

  problem i was driving like you know a [TS]

  hundred or more miles a day [TS]

  so what I'm getting at is like that it's [TS]

  not that math is not as long as you [TS]

  drive half the range it's more like if [TS]

  you drive a third of the range or [TS]

  whatever and the other thing is that [TS]

  since these are the first round of like [TS]

  minimally Viable electric cars to [TS]

  compete with gas cars that have the same [TS]

  range as a as a long-range gas car but [TS]

  they're close enough that you know that [TS]

  it's fine right [TS]

  this is not like the leaf where it's in [TS]

  need to be a very short-range car i [TS]

  would assume that the capacity of [TS]

  electric cars will go up as batteries [TS]

  become cheaper not maybe not that much [TS]

  maybe they'll stop around a 300-mile [TS]

  range like an easy 300-mile range for [TS]

  everybody and so that will just only add [TS]

  to charge in time so it seems like some [TS]

  necessary part of the infrastructure of [TS]

  the electric car world is every home to [TS]

  have a little bit better charging [TS]

  battery doesn't mean you need to have a [TS]

  big supercharger or the [TS]

  three-thousand-dollar thing or whatever [TS]

  probably just actually dryer outlet and [TS]

  since most people i would imagine go [TS]

  away less than a third of the range of [TS]

  their electric car or even a quarter of [TS]

  the range of electric car they'll [TS]

  probably find that will definitely save [TS]

  on the supercharger the number of [TS]

  superchargers needed the flip side of [TS]

  that though is the places that need [TS]

  superchargers are going to need a lot of [TS]

  them so along Interstate 90 where [TS]

  there's nobody else in the entire world [TS]

  everybody stopping somewhere along [TS]

  Interstate not even if they're all the [TS]

  cars were electric no one is going [TS]

  across New York State you know you got [TS]

  stopped for gas somewhere if you're [TS]

  going from like you know Boston to [TS]

  buffalo or something and it's just a [TS]

  giant corridor of a bunch of cars that [TS]

  need to do that and they're used to [TS]

  pulling off one of the service station [TS]

  is getting guess you know and then just [TS]

  continuing on and if it takes you even [TS]

  just 15 minutes that's gonna you know [TS]

  you're gonna have big backups and snarls [TS]

  as you can tell if anything it all goes [TS]

  wrong at any of the total stations along [TS]

  the way that you could sit in traffic [TS]

  for hours and hours so it seems like [TS]

  superchargers we're going to be [TS]

  concentrated along the major [TS]

  thoroughfares and then in suburban areas [TS]

  maybe you can have one that covers a [TS]

  tremendous area because only people are [TS]

  passing through needed everyone else [TS]

  discharges of their house also i think [TS]

  another another major problem to tackle [TS]

  is that if you don't have a house with a [TS]

  garage or a permanent parking spot and a [TS]

  driveway [TS]

  it's kind of impractical to have an [TS]

  electric car because you have like a not [TS]

  so many people live in apartments or in [TS]

  play in you know street parking only [TS]

  areas where you're parking your car in [TS]

  the street overnight you don't have a [TS]

  driver you don't you don't have a garage [TS]

  how do you charge you know on our [TS]

  regular basis out there that's that's [TS]

  trickier to solve I think that inductive [TS]

  charging mat to drive your car over the [TS]

  top of it [TS]

  those exist you never know I know [TS]

  they'll just put them on those put them [TS]

  on the road when they're putting a [TS]

  little sense for this automated cars all [TS]

  the chargers at every stoplight [TS]

  yeah why not [TS]

  Marco what's the nearest supercharger to [TS]

  you in terms of distance how I don't [TS]

  know I mean there's one in newburgh but [TS]

  that's which is pretty far I mean it's [TS]

  not like you know what direction I'm [TS]

  headed is the more relevant question I'm [TS]

  going upstate the closest one is nubert [TS]

  which is something like a half-hour up [TS]

  for an hour up from going you know into [TS]

  Pennsylvania New Jersey area that I'm [TS]

  sure it's a different one from going [TS]

  through Connecticut there's I think [TS]

  there's proof there's a couple over [TS]

  there so depending on where i'm going [TS]

  really yeah the reason I'm asking is [TS]

  like I see there's one in Greenwich [TS]

  Connecticut which looks to my I like [TS]

  it's pretty close to you yes very close [TS]

  there's one in paramus new jersey which [TS]

  also looks fairly low so it looks like [TS]

  ranch is probably closer it is i'm in [TS]

  any way the what I'm driving at though [TS]

  is let's suppose for the sake of [TS]

  discussion that you don't ever do [TS]

  anything to the home and you only have a [TS]

  regular outlet in you you would have to [TS]

  charge of the span of three days in a [TS]

  desperation scenario you could drive [TS]

  what to my eye looks like half an hour [TS]

  last to say greenwich and you could use [TS]

  the supercharger there and drive back in [TS]

  that that's what like probably 20-30 [TS]

  miles maybe maybe a little more maybe a [TS]

  little less and that would in a pinch [TS]

  solve the problem as long as you had an [TS]

  hour to spare right to go charge i [TS]

  always have an hour for graphics have [TS]

  amazing watch stores therein a good [TS]

  lunch place how's the chicken salad but [TS]

  you haven't had that you had better not [TS]

  let anybody see what I'm driving at is [TS]

  the main video that many times [TS]

  maybe you can maybe you can avoid doing [TS]

  the home modification until the next [TS]

  time you do you know demo on the house [TS]

  which for you seems to be a every couple [TS]

  years [TS]

  yeah it out you know I one of the [TS]

  situations like underwear [TS]

  my-my circuit breaker panel is full and [TS]

  so the electrician's quoting me a couple [TS]

  thousand dollars to to do like AI don't [TS]

  need a panel okay but I need a sub panel [TS]

  and then once you throw in the cost of [TS]

  all the local permits and everything [TS]

  else all fees for the town and [TS]

  everything it's probably going to be [TS]

  maybe two or three thousand dollars and [TS]

  ended that does make you positive mode [TS]

  isn't really am I really ever going to [TS]

  need that necessarily compared to the [TS]

  regular Alan and I might not when it's [TS]

  interesting you know I I find this all [TS]

  fascinating i don't suspect that i'm [TS]

  going to have an electric car anytime [TS]

  soon [TS]

  not necessarily from lack of desire but [TS]

  because those that are available [TS]

  today don't really do it for me or are [TS]

  absorbent Lee expensive or are the model [TS]

  3 that that even if I reserve one now I [TS]

  won't get in till declan's graduating [TS]

  college so I don't suspect i'm gonna get [TS]

  a an electric car anytime soon but i'm [TS]

  fascinated by all the differences in the [TS]

  different thoughts and concerns and [TS]

  worries that one has like should I [TS]

  modify my home in order to support [TS]

  charging this quicker that it's so [TS]

  different than what I'm used to thinking [TS]

  about night I just find it very [TS]

  interesting I mean and in all fairness [TS]

  the modification to your home if your [TS]

  home is at all modern or new or has [TS]

  modern electric service in it is usually [TS]

  very minimal it's usually a couple [TS]

  hundred dollars to have an electrician [TS]

  install a high power outlet usually [TS]

  really close to where breaker was anyway [TS]

  because so many breakers are in garages [TS]

  so it's you know for for most homes out [TS]

  there in the country that are fairly [TS]

  young [TS]

  I think you I think it would be a very [TS]

  inexpensive modification and most people [TS]

  i don't think really think too much [TS]

  about it [TS]

  yeah alright moving on well sort of [TS]

  moving on [TS]

  John you want to tell us about this next [TS]

  item yes bhai primary look up what sa [TS]

  stands for but one of you and or the [TS]

  chat room will do that while I'm [TS]

  addressing one last point of the [TS]

  superchargers also brought up by the [TS]

  chatroom also related to sae which is [TS]

  connected standards tehsils apparently [TS]

  got its own connector let's go like the [TS]

  two little visibility shape and i think [TS]

  i remember that like kind of a branding [TS]

  theme but anyway I think there's four [TS]

  pins in there maybe Society of [TS]

  Automotive Engineers SI stands for they [TS]

  have a standard connector for electric [TS]

  cars which is not the same as the Tesla [TS]

  connector so I mean we'll see how this [TS]

  works out in terms of you know adapters [TS]

  don't seem like it's rocket science if [TS]

  you have any kind of station that can [TS]

  provide electricity to cars obviously [TS]

  testing has its own brand of [TS]

  supercharger stations they don't care if [TS]

  you can charge anyone elses car there I [TS]

  think but they see no reason why they [TS]

  couldn't I feel like that will work [TS]

  itself out if it turns out the Tesla [TS]

  built a million supercharger stations [TS]

  before anybody build anything guess what [TS]

  the standard connector is tesla's not [TS]

  this as a standard but speaking as a [TS]

  standards as a has a standard [TS]

  measurement system for self-driving cars [TS]

  which why wouldn't because they're [TS]

  sitting around all day trying all the [TS]

  standard Google self-driving cars but we [TS]

  can make up standards for things don't [TS]

  exist so they did [TS]

  zero it goes from 0 to 50 is no [TS]

  automation and five is full automation [TS]

  and they divided into two regions of [TS]

  three each because they start from zero [TS]

  because the program is 0 1 and 2 is [TS]

  human driver monitors driving gateway [TS]

  basically and there needs to be a human [TS]

  driver and they need to monitor [TS]

  everything and three four and five is [TS]

  automated driving system monitors [TS]

  driving environment didn't read this [TS]

  entire PDF so I'm not quite sure they [TS]

  break it down much farther but again my [TS]

  criteria is do i need to know how to [TS]

  drive a car to get into this car guess [TS]

  you can do it simpler as do i get sit in [TS]

  the backseat because I falls down to the [TS]

  same thing if you get to sit at the back [TS]

  seat and no one is in the front seat [TS]

  that's complete self driving car right [TS]

  right can I fall asleep if you have to [TS]

  sit in the front seat and have to know [TS]

  how to drive a car because you may be [TS]

  called upon to do so you're still in the [TS]

  lower range that's that's really the [TS]

  battery that I care but it's good this [TS]

  the Society of Automotive Engineers has [TS]

  decided to come up with a scale for this [TS]

  and I wonder where they would I mean I [TS]

  guess I guess I your Tesla's onto which [TS]

  they call partial automation like no [TS]

  automation driver assistance partial [TS]

  automation conditional automation hi [TS]

  automation four-dimensional standards [TS]

  bodies is there anything you can [TS]

  standardize apparently anyway be [TS]

  watching for sae numbers to be quoted on [TS]

  your cars just like the sae engine power [TS]

  ratings that no-one rates except you [TS]

  mmm alright John do you think and in [TS]

  this is robin malhotra that's asked [TS]

  asked us this do you think john that [TS]

  Apple's new file system or truly [TS]

  autonomous vehicles will come first [TS]

  truly autonomous according to my [TS]

  definition just laid out as and you can [TS]

  sit in the backseat and don't have to [TS]

  drive apples file system will come first [TS]

  easily i tend to agree but you never [TS]

  really know all right Cameron palm and [TS]

  has written in and made some interesting [TS]

  points about the Amazon echo and and [TS]

  amazon in general he or she has said [TS]

  well I'm sure Amazon echo and ash [TS]

  buttons are interesting products are a [TS]

  couple of key issues number-one amazon [TS]

  is a us thing it works the US because of [TS]

  cheap shipping it doesn't work / exist [TS]

  in most of the world including including [TS]

  Europe not in the US cents the echo is [TS]

  also only available in American [TS]

  wish Cirie on the other hand and here [TS]

  she provides a link is available in many [TS]

  many many places and there's a link that [TS]

  will put the show notes for future [TS]

  availability for Siri this happens a lot [TS]

  when we bring up things I figured maybe [TS]

  netflix was another one a lot of things [TS]

  that we don't realize our us-centric or [TS]

  us only [TS]

  so if there are other people listening [TS]

  in the US and who are just thinking [TS]

  amazon everyone has amazon right [TS]

  apparently allow the stuff amazon does [TS]

  is really confined to the u.s. in ways [TS]

  that you would wouldn't imagine it would [TS]

  be like is there anything specific about [TS]

  the echo that has to be so us seems like [TS]

  they can make one for other kinds of [TS]

  other countries right maybe they just [TS]

  don't have enough server farms over [TS]

  there that have the expertise to do the [TS]

  the translation and the detection [TS]

  different language was either way it's [TS]

  always seemed kinda weird to me that [TS]

  such a big company like Amazon seems to [TS]

  have such grand ambitions with the whole [TS]

  you know easy to and s3 and selling [TS]

  things all over the world that mean I [TS]

  can understand maybe not being able to [TS]

  sell physical goods all over the world [TS]

  but for all their electronic products [TS]

  and network services they should expand [TS]

  more well and I think this is a I think [TS]

  what we're seeing here a strategy tax at [TS]

  amazon which is the the echo does lots [TS]

  of things that don't use their services [TS]

  their their storefronts at all and don't [TS]

  depend on the store friends at all but [TS]

  one of the main reasons that all amazon [TS]

  hardware exists is to get you to to buy [TS]

  more content or media or stuff from [TS]

  Amazon and so I bet they don't want to [TS]

  even bother supporting it in countries [TS]

  and languages where they they also don't [TS]

  have widespread store coverage for their [TS]

  stores and Amazon is historically [TS]

  notoriously us-centric in their [TS]

  storefronts so that's that's probably [TS]

  the reason the main reason why is that [TS]

  had the echo couldn't do like half the [TS]

  things that amazon wants it to be doing [TS]

  no maybe about like you have to just [TS]

  think like long-term let everybody was [TS]

  like an Amazon is such a long-term [TS]

  thinking company meaning that they see I [TS]

  was making spaceships and stuff so long [TS]

  term if you are a China if you're not [TS]

  selling in China you've got a big [TS]

  problem because China has a lot of an [TS]

  Indian but i'm not trying to India guess [TS]

  what they have a lot of people and those [TS]

  people are in many cases crawling up [TS]

  into the [TS]

  the income class where they can buy your [TS]

  products like that those countries are [TS]

  not developing countries they're like [TS]

  developed like you know they're entering [TS]

  the middle class type of thing they're [TS]

  ready to buy expensive for most [TS]

  electronics right and it's happening [TS]

  faster and faster like if you no matter [TS]

  how I put it this way if you know even [TS]

  have amazon gets one hundred percent of [TS]

  the market for physical goods in the [TS]

  United States if you just fast-forward [TS]

  enough years the whoever gets a hundred [TS]

  percent of the market in China India is [TS]

  going to gobble them up because having a [TS]

  hundred percent of the u.s. is [TS]

  meaningless when when they get billions [TS]

  of people in Asia [TS]

  yep alright who wants to talk about [TS]

  ubiquity zeit port power over ethernet [TS]

  switch probably Margo our first sponsor [TS]

  this week we're really going to switch [TS]

  but I am briefly God sponsor you find [TS]

  our first sponsor this week is net.com [TS]

  this is a new sponsor its net and I am i [TS]

  pronouncing that right mah man me I've [TS]

  never actually said this word yet you [TS]

  have to sound more apathetic me you got [TS]

  it that's better that's better so many [TS]

  dot-com that these are the people long [TS]

  ago they found a site called woot.com [TS]

  and what was like a one thing a day [TS]

  daily deal kind of sight and the things [TS]

  were like things that appeal to geeks [TS]

  so it was you know a cheap crappy little [TS]

  hard like whatever I was saying last [TS]

  week and the week before like just being [TS]

  blown away by how cheap hardware is [TS]

  these days and it especially cost [TS]

  nothing if you get it from place like [TS]

  math day so what they do is one deal a [TS]

  day and this is how Amazon wounded so [TS]

  amazon bought woot forever ago the team [TS]

  behind it the founders behind it [TS]

  eventually got fed up because Amazon was [TS]

  ruining it [TS]

  they were there like made instead of [TS]

  being one deal a day it would be [TS]

  oh now there's a whole bunch of deals [TS]

  until it's kind of just amazon at that [TS]

  point I kind of lost its personality and [TS]

  kind of also made a special so they were [TS]

  all happy with this they just left and [TS]

  they went and founded a company called [TS]

  mediocre labs which I love and they made [TS]

  this site called net and i love the [TS]

  attitude at this site if you read their [TS]

  copy this is like the best copywriting [TS]

  for trying to just barely sell a product [TS]

  for this ad there's no coupon code [TS]

  there's no tracking URL i was given no [TS]

  script they just said just wing it [TS]

  if you see this [TS]

  monster daring fireball a lot you can [TS]

  almost barely tell that they're [TS]

  sponsoring like that the way they want [TS]

  it was supposed to be written like it [TS]

  almost seems like wait who's the sponsor [TS]

  you do they like hide the link they do [TS]

  they do like fun kind of like working [TS]

  stuff like that because this is [TS]

  obviously like laid-back people who know [TS]

  that they are selling really cheap [TS]

  hardware and it's like surprisingly [TS]

  cheap so today that the one there today [TS]

  is it looks kind of like an Apple watch [TS]

  shape but it's actually a speaker that [TS]

  goes on your wrist it looks it's like [TS]

  who would wear this and they even say [TS]

  like who would wear this and it's eight [TS]

  dollars and that's it and it changes [TS]

  everyday changes at midnight at once the [TS]

  things sell out there is gone that's it [TS]

  there's no like advanced notice of like [TS]

  eight tomorrow we're gonna have a [TS]

  Chromebook or whatever and sometimes [TS]

  they you know so they have all this like [TS]

  awesome like cheap crappy hardware that [TS]

  you can't believe it's that cheap and it [TS]

  has anything that works and they also [TS]

  sometimes have good stuff like they that [TS]

  they had last week they had a really [TS]

  impressive home theater receiver that [TS]

  those 3d sandwich I don't know the thing [TS]

  until I read their site they had apple [TS]

  watch on there before the apple watch [TS]

  sport on there a few weeks back a few [TS]

  months back [TS]

  they have some really nice stuff as well [TS]

  I love their copywriting more than [TS]

  anything else i love how they sell these [TS]

  products just barely the attitude is [TS]

  hilarious [TS]

  it's that you can like sign up to become [TS]

  a special member which is the very [TS]

  mediocre person VMP and VIP has all [TS]

  sorts of little benefit you can get here [TS]

  check it out its mat.com neh dot-com man [TS]

  that's that's pretty much spot on [TS]

  ok but i feel like i need more facial [TS]

  hair to say it correctly [TS]

  no you just need a lot of indifference a [TS]

  just you need to be overflowing with [TS]

  indifference it's this is a hard every [TS]

  to do is you supposed to sound [TS]

  enthusiastic about the spots [TS]

  it's not this time I i love i love the [TS]

  way these people do business so check it [TS]

  out [TS]

  netcom thanks for sponsoring me there we [TS]

  go that's how I supposed to say it so [TS]

  why don't we talk about this [TS]

  8-port power over ethernet switch ion [TS]

  right edge of my seat i'm so excited but [TS]

  last week I was talking about me trying [TS]

  to find just a simple eight parts which [TS]

  that has no fantasy island is reliable [TS]

  and you know just sits there i did my [TS]

  other required by the way is that the [TS]

  power and the ports be on the same side [TS]

  just because of the way i have these [TS]

  very switches arranged it's kind of [TS]

  annoying to have the kind that are meant [TS]

  to be in Iraq where the ports on the [TS]

  front but the power comes in the back [TS]

  because that's just not a good [TS]

  arrangement for things that are sitting [TS]

  on the edge of a table or something [TS]

  anyway and Mark out brought up in like [TS]

  to his a the PHP thing that he likes and [TS]

  actually have I say the bookmark about [TS]

  next time anybody going to give that one [TS]

  to try i still have a couple of extras [TS]

  at home and waiting for them to die once [TS]

  they die i'll try that one also if you [TS]

  just need one big one I actually used I [TS]

  forgot to mention i actually use a [TS]

  rackmount HP switch in my garage that [TS]

  has it because that 18 we had a big [TS]

  renovations done I i had the house wired [TS]

  for ethernet so I have something like 12 [TS]

  or 1215 ports that i'll go into this big [TS]

  HP I think it's an 18-10 something like [TS]

  that so that's probably something that [TS]

  some kind of get gigabit HP semi managed [TS]

  or unmanaged switch it was a couple [TS]

  hundred dollars and that's also been [TS]

  rock solid I've never liked rebooted [TS]

  that never had a port die never had any [TS]

  problems whatsoever [TS]

  yeah if I had in my garage in the [TS]

  basement or someplace like that i would [TS]

  just get a big rack mount one just put [TS]

  it where the heck I wanted into care as [TS]

  long as it was reliable but [TS]

  unfortunately do the way I have the [TS]

  wires running i have lots of these [TS]

  little ones around having a poor one on [TS]

  my TV have any port one of the computer [TS]

  room everyday part one next to mine ass [TS]

  and stuff downstairs and so this is a [TS]

  bunch of these little ones many of which [TS]

  are in spaces where people have to be so [TS]

  i have to be quiet so the HP one its [TS]

  fanless if it's reliable and i'll give [TS]

  it a try that sounds good but I was [TS]

  surprised that marker didn't suggest [TS]

  ubiquity because we talk about ubiquity [TS]

  harbor last week and you're saying how [TS]

  much you love do they make an eight port [TS]

  switch to in our technical actually [TS]

  reviewed it recently and it looks weird [TS]

  an enterprising and ubiquity and stuff [TS]

  like that but like a well it's solid and [TS]

  reliable is exactly what you're looking [TS]

  for right this is a family's one there [TS]

  8.1 doesn't have any fans in it [TS]

  I has a bunch of fancy features that I'm [TS]

  not interested in like the you know all [TS]

  these things they can do with [TS]

  traffic shaping and you know management [TS]

  and all sorts of other stuff but of [TS]

  course it's two hundred dollars so I I [TS]

  pretty much know that once I saw the [TS]

  price not completely unwilling to pay a [TS]

  lot of casino most of the time was like [TS]

  all right well if this is a good one and [TS]

  it's reliable pay money but just it's [TS]

  just so much more than like the 50 bucks [TS]

  and used to think and I was like well [TS]

  you get fined fifty dollar switches [TS]

  you're gonna get a crappy one and [TS]

  they're gonna make noise and go dead or [TS]

  whatever but the thing is I had these [TS]

  dealing switches that were attractive [TS]

  and reliable for a really long time like [TS]

  six years seven years maybe it's gonna [TS]

  be longer that's at least eight years [TS]

  that's all making mac is and I think [TS]

  happened before that how I just want [TS]

  that again [TS]

  you know maybe i just got lucky and [TS]

  found like it but I think about like $35 [TS]

  like eight years ago I just want that [TS]

  again eight years of hard dollars is [TS]

  much better than you know how long would [TS]

  it 200 daughter thing need to ask anyway [TS]

  i think i am not in the market for these [TS]

  ubiquitous witches but who knows maybe [TS]

  I'll get burned by enough three boxes [TS]

  that i will regret not buying this fancy [TS]

  managed a port switch from the fancy [TS]

  Marco brand [TS]

  yeah and also you know a little more [TS]

  following ubiquity before we leave so we [TS]

  start getting email about it apparently [TS]

  ubiquity also sells IP cameras and and I [TS]

  did look very briefly into those but [TS]

  amazon didn't talk a lot of them looks [TS]

  like they're transition model into a new [TS]

  model that's like out of stock [TS]

  everywhere right now so I kind of [TS]

  dismissed it so that's why I look into [TS]

  that they're also a little more money [TS]

  and also a few people rode in to say [TS]

  that they also now have I was talking [TS]

  last week about how there's this [TS]

  annoying java 8 wireless access point [TS]

  based controller software that you need [TS]

  if you have certain advanced features [TS]

  enabled which I don't know you also [TS]

  needed for initial setup of any any of [TS]

  their wireless access points and it [TS]

  turns out that they also sell this [TS]

  little kind of like one of those like in [TS]

  tell us if you look like a USB stick [TS]

  with actually a whole mini computer in [TS]

  there and I'm talking about little of [TS]

  the the Knux isn't but whatever those [TS]

  are they sell something that looks just [TS]

  like that and it runs their software in [TS]

  little like mini computer thing so you [TS]

  don't need to run it on one of your real [TS]

  computers if you don't want to [TS]

  but those things are also sold out [TS]

  everywhere but when they're installed [TS]

  supposed to only be like 70 or 80 box so [TS]

  you can pay 70 or 80 bucks to avoid [TS]

  installing java somewhere which I would [TS]

  probably do and what was the name of [TS]

  that product do you remember i have no [TS]

  idea it but it doesn't matter because of [TS]

  that stuff everywhere its ubiquitous is [TS]

  like it's like some kind of like Cloud [TS]

  Controller or something like that [TS]

  interesting alright your bakery makes [TS]

  routers and Wi-Fi access points and IP [TS]

  cameras and switches they also make long [TS]

  range Wi-Fi antenna so I give you if you [TS]

  want to like be my Wi-Fi from one [TS]

  building to a whole different building [TS]

  that might be far away they make a whole [TS]

  bunch of stuff to do that also cost [TS]

  suspiciously little but everyone says [TS]

  works very well like this company is [TS]

  everywhere [TS]

  yeah well I i think that you know it [TS]

  turns out there's a pretty big business [TS]

  in taking something that's controlled by [TS]

  a very small number of very high margin [TS]

  companies and doing the same thing for a [TS]

  lot of money [TS]

  I'm glad Casey's got my job yeah I'm [TS]

  here for you [TS]

  thank you alright so right after we [TS]

  recorded the last episode smile software [TS]

  ended I smile now changing changing [TS]

  oh it's just my ok changing some of the [TS]

  stuff about the new pricing for text [TS]

  text expander what it basically amounted [TS]

  to was well most of the things are the [TS]

  same we're gonna give you a little bit [TS]

  of a discount if you already a customer [TS]

  and will keep the old thing around for [TS]

  some undetermined amount of time is that [TS]

  a relatively fair summary [TS]

  well i think the most important thing is [TS]

  that they did something because that was [TS]

  we're talking about last year like oh [TS]

  let's see what they did let's think [TS]

  maybe they meant this may be the man [TS]

  that Bob it's like all right well we see [TS]

  what their their announcement x minus 6 [TS]

  is doing to the market now we wait to [TS]

  see is this what they wanted to do [TS]

  because a lot of the discussion last [TS]

  shot was like well this is what they did [TS]

  and it doesn't seem crazy to expect to [TS]

  have these results come out of it surely [TS]

  they must have thought of this but on [TS]

  the other hand maybe they've made a huge [TS]

  mistake and we'll find out if they do [TS]

  anything about it like oh no hear your [TS]

  feedback we're gonna end this is [TS]

  something we did it was faster than i [TS]

  ever thought they would so it's so clear [TS]

  that whatever it is they thought they [TS]

  were doing they did not expect there [TS]

  action they got because that was like [TS]

  two days everything else in one day it [TS]

  was very quickly afterwards they have a [TS]

  supposed to says no no are we heard your [TS]

  feedback bottle blonde now we come to [TS]

  the announcement did they hear people's [TS]

  feedback [TS]

  yeah it is what they've done actually [TS]

  addressing people's concerns and [TS]

  Thailand Marcos is a pretty strong [TS]

  opinion that they're not addressing the [TS]

  concerns really but well it's you know I [TS]

  mean honestly I I don't care that [TS]

  strongly about this topic in general [TS]

  because of this i'm not really expand [TS]

  our user and also i am a developer who [TS]

  saw something that subscription priced [TS]

  and so I I do sympathize with their [TS]

  economic needs here [TS]

  however you know that what they [TS]

  announced is basically that you know [TS]

  they they move this product that was a a [TS]

  traditionally sold like you pay 40 or [TS]

  something dollars for this product [TS]

  everything we do a major upgrade you [TS]

  might get upgrade discount whatever but [TS]

  for the most part it's like you pay a [TS]

  decent amount upfront and then you can [TS]

  use it as long as you want any make new [TS]

  ones every couple years or every year [TS]

  you can choose upgrade or not and they [TS]

  moved it from that model too [TS]

  it's now a web service with a required [TS]

  five-dollar month subscription with [TS]

  these clients that are now free and so [TS]

  the people people who use it wherever [TS]

  very angry for basically two main [TS]

  reasons number one as we discussed last [TS]

  episode a lot of people just don't like [TS]

  subscription pricing especially for [TS]

  things that they don't expect it on or [TS]

  that they don't see the value in whether [TS]

  it's there [TS]

  you know it's what people expect for [TS]

  pricing models whether in a like I don't [TS]

  want to pay per month for like a USB hub [TS]

  it's just a USB hub it does its job [TS]

  right why should we pay per month for [TS]

  that and some people use offer that way [TS]

  even though kind of isn't and practice [TS]

  but anyway so there's that complaint and [TS]

  if you have that complaint the the new [TS]

  announcement which is basically we're [TS]

  dropping the price on the subscription [TS]

  for people who had the old version and [TS]

  we're going to keep the old version [TS]

  updated for unspecified amount of time [TS]

  and so if you had the objection that [TS]

  this thing should not be subscription [TS]

  priced period [TS]

  this will not affect you at all you will [TS]

  still be upset about this if you had the [TS]

  opinion that well I'm upset about this [TS]

  not because it's such [TS]

  caption priced but because i will end up [TS]

  paying a lot more than i did before then [TS]

  this will probably make you happy [TS]

  because now it has removed i think most [TS]

  or all of that complaint i haven't done [TS]

  all the numbers but it's something like [TS]

  that you know i think you'll end up [TS]

  paying roughly the same that you're [TS]

  paying before if you have created a few [TS]

  years so it will address some of the [TS]

  complaints and the ones that were [TS]

  primarily about just like total price [TS]

  over time but it will not address the [TS]

  people who are really upset that they [TS]

  are moving to this model and also they [TS]

  may also have another problem where the [TS]

  they removed their sync features because [TS]

  one of the ways of justifying the new [TS]

  subscription service is you can now sync [TS]

  through their web service make you have [TS]

  to think through the web service before [TS]

  text expander which works by having full [TS]

  keyboard access so we can read every [TS]

  keystroke it has to read every keystroke [TS]

  you're typing so it is functionally a [TS]

  keylogger and before it didn't need [TS]

  internet access because before it [TS]

  supported sink through lots of different [TS]

  means basically like it would store its [TS]

  data in a file somewhere and you could [TS]

  say that file through many different [TS]

  means i think dropbox was probably most [TS]

  common when people use from people who I [TS]

  know who used it so before this [TS]

  keylogger effectively didn't need [TS]

  network access now it does and so [TS]

  there's also the concerns about it you [TS]

  know the security around this it's kind [TS]

  of tricky to combine something that has [TS]

  full keylogging access with something [TS]

  that has a network connection to [TS]

  third-party servers that you don't [TS]

  control and then there's a question [TS]

  around whether they are encrypting the [TS]

  snippets that you are storing their and [TS]

  of course the answer i'm pretty sure the [TS]

  answer was is there not but there's rely [TS]

  on the other security measures around [TS]

  just like your login stuff to to protect [TS]

  them so there's a whole bunch of [TS]

  concerns here that people had a whole [TS]

  bunch of objections that people had this [TS]

  new model and they have addressed one of [TS]

  them which is the total price over time [TS]

  but that's all they've address so far [TS]

  what about text and the 5 there-there [TS]

  change on that so that we will continue [TS]

  this from the press we will continue to [TS]

  sell and support text expander 540 s10 [TS]

  and Texas bender 3 + custom keyboard for [TS]

  iOS for those who need it and they don't [TS]

  don't have any time scales will continue [TS]

  to sound support continued for [TS]

  how long forever a year a month a week [TS]

  five days when if Texas better five is [TS]

  not compatible for the next version of [TS]

  OS 10 will be updated so many questions [TS]

  that I again I have to think they know [TS]

  these questions like they've been [TS]

  getting tons of feedbacks huge number of [TS]

  those questions must have said how long [TS]

  was ex-offender five be supported will [TS]

  you updated how long time you know how [TS]

  long will your old versions that didn't [TS]

  do the subscription pricing how long [TS]

  will they be supported will you continue [TS]

  to update them and they just didn't [TS]

  answer it at all and you have to think [TS]

  it's because they think people won't [TS]

  like the answer not because I didn't [TS]

  occur to us to address that question [TS]

  because they must have got that question [TS]

  thousands of times already [TS]

  yeah because the answer is you know if [TS]

  you think about it just think about it [TS]

  and everybody they're not trying to be [TS]

  like greedy or evil or anything they [TS]

  can't support an old version of this app [TS]

  forever [TS]

  there's going to be on an infinite time [TS]

  scale there's going to be an end to the [TS]

  support for this version of this app so [TS]

  and you know when are they going to do [TS]

  that they what they've said in this post [TS]

  it really just I think honestly makes [TS]

  the problem it worse because it implies [TS]

  that this will be supported indefinitely [TS]

  but you know in practice there's going [TS]

  to be an end and I don't think we or [TS]

  they know when that end will be yet but [TS]

  I think they're creating unmaintained [TS]

  able expectation here [TS]

  yeah like whatever they've lifted a [TS]

  naive person reading this that someone's [TS]

  going to read we will continue to sell [TS]

  and support to expand five like oh i'm [TS]

  so satisfied this press release made me [TS]

  feel so much better thank you smile we [TS]

  love you right [TS]

  but what they have in their head is and [TS]

  help continue to use text and the 5 [TS]

  forever like and eventually texts aspect [TS]

  Texas matter five will not work and [TS]

  they're going to be so angry then was [TS]

  gonna be like but you put out this press [TS]

  release that said you will continue to [TS]

  sell support x-men five and that's gonna [TS]

  be like well we continue to support x [TS]

  better five but unfortunately text [TS]

  identified as a product is only [TS]

  compatible version is XYZ and Bob lot [TS]

  alike but you said and like people [TS]

  aren't reading like lawyers and I [TS]

  reading for the nuance they're not and [TS]

  they don't know like why should you [TS]

  expect customer to understand what is [TS]

  involved in maintaining an application [TS]

  across the multiple releases of various [TS]

  OS it's like there is something [TS]

  especially for like a system I utility [TS]

  like Texas matter whether it's on iOS [TS]

  rs10 there's always going to be stuff [TS]

  you have to do to maintain it is not as [TS]

  simple as a just and [TS]

  an application that you just run it and [TS]

  then it went to you and that needs to be [TS]

  maintained so I know they're setting [TS]

  themselves up for failure but like I [TS]

  think about how much do I think they're [TS]

  gonna start texas-pan five well they [TS]

  don't want to support two different [TS]

  versions of their product like who would [TS]

  want like the whole point of that you [TS]

  did they want to have sustainable [TS]

  development description pricing you [TS]

  can't say okay now we're gonna have two [TS]

  teams one that's just maintaining the [TS]

  old versions and one to maintain the new [TS]

  version nobody wants to do that so my [TS]

  gut reaction is someone who's seen a lot [TS]

  of software is the Texas manner five [TS]

  minute and take span 23 for iOS they'll [TS]

  probably work with this version of [TS]

  austin and the next in this version of [TS]

  iOS and the next version probably but [TS]

  when they break i don't think the smile [TS]

  will invest in my fixing them because [TS]

  they'll be like look you had your time [TS]

  now it's time to move on to the other [TS]

  one took to whatever six or seven or [TS]

  wherever the now right and in smiles [TS]

  defense you know I that this is while I [TS]

  I don't want to like gang up on them or [TS]

  or be you know or attribute to malice to [TS]

  them but there are these problems with [TS]

  every way you choose to take money you [TS]

  know if they continue doing the old way [TS]

  of here's a paid app you buy it once and [TS]

  then in a couple years you might buy an [TS]

  upgrade that method also has to cut off [TS]

  support for old versions eventually and [TS]

  when that happens that also angers [TS]

  people and so no matter what you do no [TS]

  matter what you choose to take money it [TS]

  will anger somebody and it and you know [TS]

  a lot of somebodies if you're if you [TS]

  have a good customer base you know if [TS]

  you have a good-sized customer base it's [TS]

  going to anger a lot of people [TS]

  regardless of what you do if you don't [TS]

  charge for anything that'll anger people [TS]

  who are afraid that you're going to sell [TS]

  their data if you put ads in their [TS]

  cattle anger people who don't like ads [TS]

  who or doing what they're doing [TS]

  no matter what you do you're going to [TS]

  anger people i don't envy the position [TS]

  that smiles in here because what they're [TS]

  clearly saying if not you know directly [TS]

  than employing what they're clearly [TS]

  saying is we need to get more money from [TS]

  text expander like whatever this isn't [TS]

  working for us we need more revenue from [TS]

  it somehow and the way we're gonna do [TS]

  that is going to have the short-term [TS]

  pain for somebody and it seems like [TS]

  they're trying to address people's [TS]

  concerns but ultimately they're not [TS]

  they're not able to they can't because [TS]

  they have to make money somewhere so [TS]

  like there's always gonna be people who [TS]

  are mad about this and they're going to [TS]

  have to [TS]

  choose to make some of the mad i think [TS]

  the only two good options here are [TS]

  either that they continue doing the [TS]

  subscription model which honestly I I [TS]

  don't think it's a good idea [TS]

  it seems deeply flawed for the kind of [TS]

  product is the kind of audience that it [TS]

  had that as far as i know but again I'm [TS]

  not them i don't i don't know who your [TS]

  customers are so i could be wrong [TS]

  so that's one option is to just go whole [TS]

  hog industry in the subscription the way [TS]

  they were before and just be honest like [TS]

  look you know support 45 will end after [TS]

  next OS version or something like that [TS]

  now you set a date or Senate version [TS]

  will just say are able to stop after [TS]

  this and then you're on your own and you [TS]

  gotta move to our service now or not or [TS]

  completely bring back the old model of [TS]

  Licensing what you know whether they [TS]

  continuing the subscription model also [TS]

  or not I don't know but you know the the [TS]

  alternative here is you bring back the [TS]

  old model we're ok now you know [TS]

  TextExpander six is a regular software [TS]

  release that you can buy for 40 bucks or [TS]

  whatever and you can own it but no [TS]

  monthly fees after that for you know [TS]

  until you decide to stop using it until [TS]

  it breaks with some distant future [TS]

  Western version i don't see another [TS]

  option here like what what they're doing [TS]

  now is trying to bridge the benefits of [TS]

  both are trying to please people who [TS]

  want both without giving up their [TS]

  subscription idea and and because you [TS]

  know this is obviously like they've [TS]

  obviously invested a lot into setting [TS]

  this up migrating product over to this [TS]

  kind of system somebody's using it so if [TS]

  they kill this description service now [TS]

  they're going to anger the people who [TS]

  are using it and who do like it so like [TS]

  it this is not an imposition to be it [TS]

  and I I don't want I don't want to make [TS]

  light of this because it's like this is [TS]

  this is all hard stuff and in the [TS]

  current software landscape it is [TS]

  incredibly difficult to make a healthy [TS]

  profit selling software today it's just [TS]

  hard and and they have a staff they have [TS]

  to support and you know what you can [TS]

  argue [TS]

  oh well maybe maybe software should be [TS]

  free or there's a lot of competition or [TS]

  maybe they should lower their costs [TS]

  whatever but none of those things are [TS]

  easy things to address or easy things to [TS]

  actually follow through on and often [TS]

  have uncomfortable side effects so if [TS]

  this is not you know that like that the [TS]

  solution might [TS]

  just be like it's kind of like when the [TS]

  minimum wage goes up [TS]

  yeah I'm sorry for going political here [TS]

  God when the minimum wage goes up one of [TS]

  the problems that the economist site [TS]

  when that happens is it basically prices [TS]

  out a whole bunch of jobs from being [TS]

  doable because like will now like if the [TS]

  minimum i have to pay legal full-time [TS]

  employee is your legal employees x then [TS]

  any job that is that cost less than X [TS]

  just kinda I can't just can't pay [TS]

  somebody to do that really or any job is [TS]

  only worth you know something below [TS]

  decks that kind of problem happens now [TS]

  with software which is like a lot of [TS]

  software that could be created and that [TS]

  could have value to people just is not [TS]

  going to do well enough in the market or [TS]

  people won't pay enough for it for it to [TS]

  be sustained [TS]

  so a lot of that software just won't get [TS]

  created or only creating an abandoned so [TS]

  there's all sorts of like you know [TS]

  economic uncomfortable truths about this [TS]

  we would however however you think about [TS]

  software pricing however you think [TS]

  things should be priced or however [TS]

  whatever you're willing to pay for them [TS]

  it's it's a very tricky area and I don't [TS]

  envy smile at all for the position [TS]

  they're in right now [TS]

  yeah I certainly don't either yeah like [TS]

  i kind of think like Adobe when they [TS]

  went through a similar transition of [TS]

  like a man i think it was making plenty [TS]

  of money but this is you know what we [TS]

  think it would be better for us [TS]

  financially if we could if you could pay [TS]

  for applications on a subscription basis [TS]

  rather than selling your box with [TS]

  software in it or selling your download [TS]

  whatever into the most part they made a [TS]

  transition to that Microsoft is going to [TS]

  the same thing now trying to sell office [TS]

  365 subscriptions and everything like [TS]

  that smile obviously is much smaller [TS]

  than Dobie or Microsoft look like it was [TS]

  trying to make a similar transition and [TS]

  it's almost it's almost like I feel like [TS]

  ripping off the bandaid and just plowing [TS]

  bravely forward certainly from the [TS]

  outside that would be a cleaner [TS]

  situation but from the inside maybe like [TS]

  that wasn't even an option that we would [TS]

  have died the product would not be [TS]

  viable [TS]

  we tried it it's not working too many [TS]

  people angry we're not selling enough [TS]

  subscriptions we have to immediately do [TS]

  an about-face and so I guess you know [TS]

  better now than six months from now or [TS]

  whatever but anyway this is surely not [TS]

  the way they hope this transition would [TS]

  go and i think their attempt to [TS]

  you to fix it with the discount and the [TS]

  vague promise of support for the old [TS]

  versions i don't know if it makes it [TS]

  worse but boy I like yeah I don't know [TS]

  if it gives them a higher chance of [TS]

  success either like I I just feel like [TS]

  they're saying that the only does [TS]

  deferred the anger to to a later period [TS]

  yeah the discount i think i think is is [TS]

  probably fine because that's I think [TS]

  this kind is actually like maybe the [TS]

  mistake they just made was making a [TS]

  subscription price too high that they [TS]

  could that could have been something [TS]

  they decided to offer getting all angry [TS]

  feedback when that sign of descriptions [TS]

  again i'm speculating here maybe the [TS]

  price is just too high [TS]

  like if you told people they could use [TS]

  text and you get it for free and you [TS]

  have to pay a penny a month everyone's [TS]

  fine with that suddenly it's not the [TS]

  suddenly is not some sort of [TS]

  philosophical objection to subscription [TS]

  pricing i don't want to pay a penny [TS]

  months too much know everybody's fine [TS]

  with that it's below their level of [TS]

  concern right but five dollars a month [TS]

  or whatever it is was above people seem [TS]

  so the fifty percent discount for life [TS]

  if that brings it down below people [TS]

  threshold then we'll see like Marco said [TS]

  they really object philosophically to [TS]

  subscriptions period or was he merely [TS]

  the price is too high the promise to [TS]

  text expander is like and also we're not [TS]

  even really sure the subscription think [TS]

  it's a good idea so you can have this [TS]

  thing for some undefined period of time [TS]

  but probably it will go away but you [TS]

  probably don't know that and just makes [TS]

  me depressed but you know I was anyway [TS]

  we'll see how it works out for them like [TS]

  Microsoft is difficult but the final [TS]

  part is you can somehow can't get your [TS]

  way out of a press release without [TS]

  something terrible appearing and I feel [TS]

  like it's I don't i'm not a PR person I [TS]

  don't know how to do BR person's job i'm [TS]

  not going to say that i could have [TS]

  written this better but as someone who [TS]

  reads a lot of press releases reading [TS]

  this does not make me feel better about [TS]

  the company and I imagine that's what [TS]

  press releases are supposed to do the [TS]

  last part of it was this supposed to be [TS]

  like you know person-to-person like have [TS]

  empathy for us and so forth [TS]

  this was a big change their number of [TS]

  things we could have done better alright [TS]

  that sounds like the start of a [TS]

  paragraph where they're saying basically [TS]

  like acknowledging ok are bad you know [TS]

  that you are angry at us and we have to [TS]

  at this point acknowledge that you are [TS]

  angry at us with reasons there are [TS]

  things that didn't turn out the way we [TS]

  wanted them to you know we're sorry your [TS]

  mad [TS]

  we acknowledge your anger like that [TS]

  right seems like it's going to find so [TS]

  far we genuinely want to bring you the [TS]

  best text and experience you can [TS]

  unfortunately not all the accents had [TS]

  the intended effect still so so good so [TS]

  far [TS]

  for example comma we staggered our [TS]

  customer emails or three days to ensure [TS]

  smooth server capacity so that everyone [TS]

  would have a good initial experience [TS]

  with the service this ever held up but [TS]

  many customers learned of the new text [TS]

  expander from news sites Twitter or [TS]

  Twitter rather than from smile that is [TS]

  not an example of the of the bad things [TS]

  that people are yelling at you about [TS]

  like because they found out the news [TS]

  from a site other than you as if somehow [TS]

  they found out from you they would have [TS]

  choked it down and it would have been [TS]

  more palatable they're angry about what [TS]

  happened [TS]

  finding out what happened from news [TS]

  sites rather different you physical part [TS]

  of that may be like why do I gotta hear [TS]

  this on Twitter instead of from you [TS]

  directly smile but subsequently if [TS]

  you're going to pick the thing that [TS]

  people are angry about [TS]

  that's not it this whole press release [TS]

  was addressing the issues none of which [TS]

  were I found out about this from Twitter [TS]

  instead of smile don't in your press [TS]

  release like that it's like it's like [TS]

  you know what is your greatest weakness [TS]

  so I'm little bit I'm assess a hard [TS]

  worker sometimes are better [TS]

  ok it's not they were they were so close [TS]

  they're right there but it's for example [TS]

  and the example they gave is not what [TS]

  people are angry it's not even like the [TS]

  top three that people are angry about so [TS]

  close [TS]

  yeah I'm feeling the story is not over [TS]

  yeah we've heard you and actually it's [TS]

  going to be twenty-five percent of the [TS]

  original price for life and Texas better [TS]

  five will be supported indefinitely and [TS]

  we're canceling text finder six but wait [TS]

  we heard you Texas better 6 users you [TS]

  want to keep all right I get them i get [TS]

  1 yeah you know they're they're allowed [TS]

  to you try something doesn't work you [TS]

  react fast good if they come back again [TS]

  with another press release and then [TS]

  we're just going to have dedicated [TS]

  texture podcast is alright well we have [TS]

  one more quick piece of follow-up and [TS]

  then we can move on to some other stuff [TS]

  these were the topics in they were [TS]

  working with a great yeah it's not gray [TS]

  area text matters follow-up so is Apple [TS]

  yeah fair enough John you finally got [TS]

  your way she got your bleeps and bloops [TS]

  and how's that going [TS]

  not my wish I wanted believes in the [TS]

  theme song that we had in one episode [TS]

  way back when [TS]

  but Marco took it upon itself to add [TS]

  believes in glutes before and after the [TS]

  ads I think because he listened to much [TS]

  hello internet or some other reason [TS]

  anyway we've gotten a lot of feedback [TS]

  about that and I thought Marco should [TS]

  explain what he's doing and why we've [TS]

  got like three people who don't like [TS]

  it's yeah it's more than that but man [TS]

  people who don't like it i mean i can [TS]

  say the sky is blue and people and more [TS]

  people will tell me i'm an idiot and [TS]

  wrong then what we've heard about this [TS]

  well that's also true well people don't [TS]

  like change so that's obvious right but [TS]

  I want more interested in is why did you [TS]

  add them not why do people not like them [TS]

  but why did you add them sure [TS]

  so first of all you can quibble over the [TS]

  choice of sounds that the I i chose old [TS]

  Max and I wanted to do the windows XP [TS]

  USB device plugged in and unplugged [TS]

  sounds but I knew John would not allow [TS]

  that that that's correct John I don't [TS]

  even know that sound but no that would [TS]

  be thinking about you do you do now [TS]

  known as it anyway so that's what I [TS]

  wanted to do and I knew John but would [TS]

  object so I i chose old Mac sounds [TS]

  instead that kind of just that the [TS]

  actual origins of them are kinda funny [TS]

  one of them's a crash one of them to [TS]

  reboot of some old max I didn't pick [TS]

  based on what computers they belong to [TS]

  specifically in the old Apple lineup i [TS]

  just picked based on which ones I [TS]

  thought sounded right for this purpose i [TS]

  was think about using using something [TS]

  like this for awhile because it allows [TS]

  me a lot more flexibility and editing of [TS]

  when i start the ad and when I end the [TS]

  ad it also saves time in the episode [TS]

  because it removes all the transition [TS]

  lead-in from like Casey saying all right [TS]

  before we cover this market large tell [TS]

  me something that's awesome you know [TS]

  something like that like it [TS]

  it removes the need for a lot of that so [TS]

  it does save time I think and it's also [TS]

  just gives me the flexibility to place [TS]

  the ads wherever I want to really like [TS]

  whenever wherever there's a natural [TS]

  break in conversation even if we didn't [TS]

  say at that point in the show [TS]

  alright let's do a sponsor break now so [TS]

  it allows flexibility and editing [TS]

  basically and it makes everything [TS]

  shorter it also helps differentiate when [TS]

  the ad has begun and when the and has [TS]

  ended it forces you to figure that out [TS]

  to it yet was easy [TS]

  yeah enforcing it forces to be like a [TS]

  fully defined boundary which i think is [TS]

  better tutorial even though i think we [TS]

  were pretty good about that already but [TS]

  this does help just a little bit [TS]

  like last week you talk to john about [TS]

  blue apron after after I had finished [TS]

  doing my script and so if if I wanted to [TS]

  integrate that into the ad read i had to [TS]

  move it in and I did and so I actually [TS]

  rearranging the ad to move that into the [TS]

  ad real explicitly and then once the [TS]

  sound played the ad was over so i think [TS]

  that helped also and so that's why I did [TS]

  it and the reason I started two weeks [TS]

  ago is because all three live reads I [TS]

  did that recording I hated them all and [TS]

  so I recorded them all the next morning [TS]

  and when I what I do recording after the [TS]

  fact which I occasionally do if I mess [TS]

  up a read too badly if I just don't like [TS]

  the way it turned out I will of course [TS]

  always sound slightly different from the [TS]

  way some of the night before just [TS]

  because you know people's voices changed [TS]

  throughout the day and um and throughout [TS]

  each day you might have different voice [TS]

  to yesterday but I you know just how [TS]

  tired you are whether you're sick with [TS]

  allergies whatever so I didn't like all [TS]

  three the added two weeks ago I replaced [TS]

  them all the morning after and decided [TS]

  this would be a good time to use the [TS]

  sounds because it would help people not [TS]

  notice that I sounded different in the [TS]

  ads and these dinner as far as i know [TS]

  these did originate like the idea of at [TS]

  bumper sounds I first heard it on hello [TS]

  Internet [TS]

  I don't know if they invented it but [TS]

  that is certainly where I first heard it [TS]

  they did not invent it just like a [TS]

  underscored in an exploding as yes [TS]

  didn't I heard it first on correlation I [TS]

  thought I think it's probably from the [TS]

  radio the invention of radio yeah i mean [TS]

  that well within podcast yeah radio its [TS]

  everyone does a little bit differently [TS]

  but the idea of just like kind of like a [TS]

  quick opening and closing sound effect i [TS]

  first heard that hello internet they get [TS]

  full credit because they are awesome and [TS]

  they are still my favorite podcast i [TS]

  don't know i'm i'm just going to assume [TS]

  they stole something from us at some [TS]

  point we'll call it even and yeah that's [TS]

  about it [TS]

  we also sponsor this week by freshbooks [TS]

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  of the things they offer is overdue [TS]

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  this because invoices you know they get [TS]

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  you always have people who are late to [TS]

  pay invoices and it's great when the [TS]

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  smile we need to actually wrap up [TS]

  addressing of [TS]

  the various complaints of the bleeps and [TS]

  bloops oh that collecting collecting the [TS]

  beliefs of those complaints 11 category [TS]

  chain of complaint is i don't like [TS]

  change [TS]

  that's like the medic at aghori which [TS]

  you know that you can't dismiss out of [TS]

  hand because who wants their thing to be [TS]

  you know you kind of get used to a [TS]

  certain structure you don't like change [TS]

  rights but i will listen to episode 1 [TS]

  and tell me you don't like change [TS]

  yeah so we'll put that aside for now but [TS]

  it is the thing people said the other [TS]

  one surprising number of people i listen [TS]

  to the podcast it i don't know how we [TS]

  should take this while drifting off to [TS]

  sleep or to help them are this help them [TS]

  get this look like I mean great it's [TS]

  like I'm happy to make a product that [TS]

  you enjoy for whatever purpose you know [TS]

  you want to use it for that's how you [TS]

  want to use its fine but apparently the [TS]

  bleeps and bloops are harshing my mellow [TS]

  and and jangling them out of this lumber [TS]

  that they were drifting into so perhaps [TS]

  turning down the volume or picking [TS]

  different sounds could help out there [TS]

  are those people that have but again [TS]

  there's a surprising number of people [TS]

  said that [TS]

  yeah that seems to be I think that's the [TS]

  only complaint I would consider valid [TS]

  that we've received so far and you can't [TS]

  like you i'm not sure how I feel about [TS]

  people complaining that they're having a [TS]

  hard time falling asleep to our podcast [TS]

  but that it's that that is a semi valid [TS]

  complaint if it's that's how they're [TS]

  using the podcast and we're helping make [TS]

  their life better right helping others [TS]

  obviously the more power to him [TS]

  obviously the more power to him [TS]

  so maybe the volume damn i can you [TS]

  imagine people who hear us as the last [TS]

  thing they here before they go to sleep [TS]

  like what is that mentally healthy but [TS]

  that's fine we'll give them awesome [TS]

  dreams about us because that's the USB [TS]

  hubs a new mac pro's that's what [TS]

  nightmares my friend that dreams [TS]

  yeah Michael I don't like the sounds [TS]

  like I know you went through all the [TS]

  list of sounds because you have no sort [TS]

  of background of what those sounds are [TS]

  where they came from [TS]

  it is weird to hear the sounds that you [TS]

  picked in there so I I feel like better [TS]

  sounds could be fined like their mac [TS]

  sounds but I don't like that one of the [TS]

  crash sound and of all the star beeps [TS]

  you pick that one [TS]

  not not my favorites so I think there's [TS]

  an area where we could put with [TS]

  potentially improved try to make because [TS]

  that you know all the reasons you cited [TS]

  for the sounds sounds good to me like I [TS]

  think they're all good and we just need [TS]

  to tamp down the negative so I feel like [TS]

  sure so you know if if the issue is just [TS]

  like the volume of the sounds i thought [TS]

  i had a good balance i I did reduce the [TS]

  volume on them from like their stock [TS]

  configuration like from like the bra [TS]

  sound because it didn't match the levels [TS]

  really well otherwise but if I ever do [TS]

  some further that's fine after the [TS]

  choice of sound it's tricky when you're [TS]

  choosing sound effects for pi know this [TS]

  is really inside baseball I'm sorry for [TS]

  it doesn't care [TS]

  you can skip over this chapter when [TS]

  you're when you're choosing sound [TS]

  effects to go in a pocket i learned this [TS]

  in the early days of neutral because i [TS]

  would use to to delineate the ads and [TS]

  neutral i would you wait a minute that [TS]

  was before hello internet say they stole [TS]

  everything for us [TS]

  alright so I we used the BMW chime from [TS]

  the from like the the e whatever series [TS]

  whatever that ability [TS]

  yeah whatever the pleasant little chime [TS]

  is when you like leave the door open or [TS]

  start the car whatever i recorded one of [TS]

  those from my 3 series and I used we use [TS]

  that as our ad bumpers and we got [TS]

  complaints from people is also why i [TS]

  like-- when I when I bleep the sound [TS]

  effects or when I believe a swear word i [TS]

  don't use the horn honking sound there [TS]

  was a couple really up to the intro why [TS]

  would you all sorts of car sounds and i [TS]

  settled on just using a hand brake or [TS]

  trunk slamming sound because when you're [TS]

  in a car and you hear that sound effect [TS]

  you don't it kind of throws you off you [TS]

  don't know whether like it a real horn [TS]

  honking outside like that's it kind of [TS]

  scares your or jostles you out of out of [TS]

  what you're supposed to pay attention to [TS]

  is that the sound of [TS]

  I engine or is that now at mp3 right [TS]

  nice i setup so anyway never get all did [TS]

  you know other carmakers doing that now [TS]

  by the way not just BMW i think i read i [TS]

  think it was maybe his Volkswagen or [TS]

  some other but like just non-luxury non [TS]

  fancy brands are doing it anyway it's [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  BMW leads the way and lots of things [TS]

  good and bad anyway so so I learned like [TS]

  you got to be careful not to basically [TS]

  not to use like current sounds so when I [TS]

  chose these sounds are chosen [TS]

  specifically so that they wouldn't sound [TS]

  like the more recent Mac sound effects [TS]

  so like I didn't use the current mac [TS]

  startup chime which is actually been [TS]

  used for quite some time [TS]

  I didn't use that because it was i I [TS]

  didn't want people to think that like [TS]

  the computer behind them was rebooting [TS]

  and their craft a kernel panic like you [TS]

  know I don't want I want to like freak [TS]

  people out so i had to pick sounds that [TS]

  were not recent and it would be funny to [TS]

  troll the windows XP users with the USB [TS]

  sound and they are also quieter and [TS]

  simpler and they wouldn't annoy you [TS]

  because they would match each other John [TS]

  it's not the non matching it's just that [TS]

  I know those sounds from history and [TS]

  life and they you know I think [TS]

  everything you said is a good idea not [TS]

  to use modern sounds don't use sounds [TS]

  that could be confused with car sounds [TS]

  like all good but just this particular [TS]

  one sided they just don't work for me [TS]

  again we're gonna reconcile differences [TS]

  Merlin has little guitar jangling as the [TS]

  beginning and end [TS]

  obviously it's probably not appropriate [TS]

  for us but on metro works especially [TS]

  because it fits in with the sort of [TS]

  intro theme thing anyway I think I think [TS]

  we can do better here is the other [TS]

  angles and no one brought up the people [TS]

  who like don't like change and stuff [TS]

  having things like this no matter what [TS]

  sounds we end up landing on and what [TS]

  volume there at or whatever having a [TS]

  regular features of the show like the [TS]

  song in the middle and the little the [TS]

  ring things and the car door opening [TS]

  stuff like that that stuff is incredibly [TS]

  addictive like you really like Pavlov's [TS]

  with ringing the bell and making a dog [TS]

  salivates like it is like a literal [TS]

  belt-like so for all the people who it's [TS]

  weird for you because we're changing it [TS]

  totally understand that but for the [TS]

  people who are just starting to listen [TS]

  to the show now or four people a year [TS]

  from now after we've been doing this for [TS]

  a while that will become such an [TS]

  integral part of the show that we ever [TS]

  took it away they would people would [TS]

  flip out because humans are just so [TS]

  little monkeys and hit you know so what [TS]

  I'm saying is hanging in there [TS]

  eventually you'll come to love the belt [TS]

  maybe not this particular time so what [TS]

  we will get we feel like we will get the [TS]

  kinks workout and version 2 and three of [TS]

  these sounds or whatever [TS]

  eventually you won't be able to live [TS]

  without them yeah and I mean this is [TS]

  that's one of the reasons we have our [TS]

  theme song [TS]

  so Jonathan Mann the author of our theme [TS]

  song he we did the first episode without [TS]

  a theme song are after how many we did [TS]

  beforehand it was a few and like one [TS]

  time we complained that we didn't know [TS]

  how to end the show and everything so he [TS]

  wrote the theme song and at the same [TS]

  time i had actually asked Merlin Mann [TS]

  like a week or so earlier if he could [TS]

  write us a theme song because because he [TS]

  always like musical things like like I [TS]

  think that pretty sure it's just him [TS]

  playing guitar or playing rockband [TS]

  something like he is a musician but I'm [TS]

  you know back to work that seems but [TS]

  that's theme song was like a high school [TS]

  band or whatever high school band open [TS]

  that wasn't what it may I was it with [TS]

  after high school I don't know anyway a [TS]

  serious band you know I bought their [TS]

  album with it it's bacon right yeah i [TS]

  think that one [TS]

  yeah so I actually asked Merlin before [TS]

  Jonathan wrote what is now our theme [TS]

  song is Merlin to write something for us [TS]

  and then when Jonathan wrote his theme [TS]

  song we were like this is so good like [TS]

  it was getting stuck in all of our heads [TS]

  all day and we're like I think we have [TS]

  to get use this it's it's too good we [TS]

  have to use this it's so infectious she [TS]

  gets in all of our heads so much we [TS]

  don't have a choice we have so i i went [TS]

  to dramatic look I'm sorry I like have [TS]

  you if you start anything please stop [TS]

  and fortunately he hadn't gotten to it [TS]

  yet so it wasn't like a huge deal [TS]

  at least I don't think no one hates me [TS]

  forever for that because that was like [TS]

  three years ago and I think we're still [TS]

  friends but yeah like we knew like when [TS]

  we we heard the jonathan mann song we [TS]

  knew we had to do it by the way quick [TS]

  plug for Jonathan man he is launching a [TS]

  new podcast called song knots on the [TS]

  truth when the radio topia shows you [TS]

  know the truth [TS]

  it's a big podcast already took anyway [TS]

  so look check out song or not spider-man [TS]

  which i think is launching shortly or [TS]

  might have lied about time we are the [TS]

  show anyway [TS]

  quick plug for Jonathan's we like him a [TS]

  lot because your theme song so anyway [TS]

  that is why we we do fun stuff like this [TS]

  because it gets in our heads and it [TS]

  becomes part of the personality of the [TS]

  show and I do I like John your statement [TS]

  basically like I just stop you're [TS]

  wanting to get used to eventually it's [TS]

  not stop your whining is that you will [TS]

  not just get used to it you'll come to [TS]

  crave it you will need it to be there [TS]

  will become a comforting regular as any [TS]

  sort of routine as any you know the [TS]

  parent of a child knows regular you know [TS]

  having routines the time we do this is [TS]

  it is comforting to have a routine to [TS]

  know that no matter what crazy stuff [TS]

  goes on during the show a certain point [TS]

  there's going to be these little jingles [TS]

  that to mark the asthma is going to be a [TS]

  song maybe it's gonna be a car sound [TS]

  like those regular things be those [TS]

  routines those traditions become comfort [TS]

  you will you'll come to love them as [TS]

  long as we don't pick terrible sounds [TS]

  and words I don't want your 5 bucks a [TS]

  month [TS]

  yeah alright so you want to talk about a [TS]

  topic or just one and here is what we [TS]

  sponsor to do if you want i'm kidding we [TS]

  talked last week's this is even a great [TS]

  topic this is like halfway between [TS]

  follow-up and not [TS]

  we talked last week about Apple's 40th [TS]

  birthday and we went on a journey [TS]

  together through our art our finding the [TS]

  mac in finding apple and we didn't talk [TS]

  much about the imac or at least not [TS]

  enough for John so John tell us about [TS]

  Apple turning 40 and the imac yeah we're [TS]

  running over in our for you think so I [TS]

  kind of cut that out of where i would [TS]

  have talked about myself but i think it [TS]

  is an important part to acknowledge and [TS]

  maybe you guys can relate to it because [TS]

  maybe you have opinions on it looking at [TS]

  it from afar but so the imac was 1998 [TS]

  and steve jobs would come back to apple [TS]

  and in that people don't remember they [TS]

  usually think of the ipod is the [TS]

  important turnaround product but the [TS]

  imac was just as important if not more [TS]

  important for Apple as a company not [TS]

  particularly for the industry because in [TS]

  the end I go whatever it was just a [TS]

  computer people to make computers before [TS]

  the important thing that the imac did [TS]

  for apple is it seemed like from the [TS]

  outside that he gave the entire company [TS]

  like a little measure of pride back like [TS]

  that it made them believe oh yeah we can [TS]

  make cool things that people like they [TS]

  were proud of because there was you know [TS]

  especially with that pole being your [TS]

  death in 1997 and going through [TS]

  different CEOs in the years before that [TS]

  and running out of money and having [TS]

  layoffs and having products that people [TS]

  weren't particularly happy with not [TS]

  being able to feel the next generation [TS]

  less difficult for peter tries and [TS]

  windows 95 coming in just stomping all [TS]

  over their face and Marco feeling bad [TS]

  for people having max it was getting [TS]

  harder and harder to be proud to be an [TS]

  employee of apple and so Steve Jobs and [TS]

  his typical hit what would become a [TS]

  typical thing of having a secret group [TS]

  work on a secret project and no one knew [TS]

  about and having Johnny I make this [TS]

  amazing design for that nobody saw [TS]

  including the people who are working on [TS]

  it that the rumor mill that the mackerel [TS]

  which was definitely still thing back [TS]

  then I remember them thinking it was a [TS]

  set-top box because i think the people [TS]

  working on the hardware they didn't get [TS]

  to see what case it would go in sort of [TS]

  images look like a little flat box and [TS]

  so the rumors that came out with a [TS]

  capital making television set-top box [TS]

  which by the way they did at one point [TS]

  and then do now but it's not much of a [TS]

  set-top it's more of a set-top coaster [TS]

  anyway the separation of the teams [TS]

  working on this and the big dramatic [TS]

  reveal we made a new computer alright so [TS]

  what Apple you made [TS]

  new computer that you know you made a [TS]

  new Maximilian max and it is both [TS]

  minimizing and maximizing is to say that [TS]

  was most important about it was the way [TS]

  the thing looked it looked weird for a [TS]

  computer it was teal it the color blue [TS]

  is the name of the beach that i'm not [TS]

  going to pronounce after a long way more [TS]

  it's like you not want to get involved [TS]

  but it was a particular kind of blue eye [TS]

  and it was translucent and it was cute [TS]

  like the original mac and it was a super [TS]

  important product both for Apple because [TS]

  it made I feel like it made them proud [TS]

  of themselves again and set them on the [TS]

  road to greatness and also for the [TS]

  entire industry because with that [TS]

  product the fact that they were such a [TS]

  reaction to it when despite the fact [TS]

  that it was mostly just a [TS]

  run-of-the-mill mac and other digital [TS]

  agency reports and other important [TS]

  things for a public setting that aside [TS]

  for now but I it convinced the world [TS]

  essentially that the way computers look [TS]

  is a factor which sounds so stupid it's [TS]

  like saying oh this was the first car to [TS]

  convince the world the car should look [TS]

  good we just everyone accepts the cars [TS]

  have to look good everyone except there [TS]

  are three cars and pretty cars and so [TS]

  many people factor in how the car looks [TS]

  in the car buying decisions and cars [TS]

  cost thousands and thousands of dollars [TS]

  more than computers in most cases and [TS]

  yet somehow we're always ok with cars [TS]

  having that for our lifetime right [TS]

  it took Apple to say these computers you [TS]

  should care they look too because who [TS]

  wants an ugly 14 years apple had been [TS]

  making nice ones but they were still [TS]

  somewhat constrained by the orthodoxy of [TS]

  the industry in terms of they were [TS]

  off-white or black or gray like they [TS]

  weren't great color right you know there [TS]

  was there was still within the limits of [TS]

  the computer as defined by Bible itself [TS]

  in the early days as you know the Apple [TS]

  to know everything in it and and all the [TS]

  other companies that made computers big [TS]

  and small they sort of defined a boring [TS]

  aesthetic and it took Apple to break out [TS]

  of that on the mass scale and say we [TS]

  think this is cool and you know I think [TS]

  customers will be tickled by the idea of [TS]

  a green computer and we'll sell them to [TS]

  them and they will buy green computer [TS]

  and they will love it because it's green [TS]

  and it's just it that that doesn't sound [TS]

  it sounds like such a stupid thing in [TS]

  the age where we sell everything based [TS]

  on colors and all you know our phones [TS]

  come in different colors and all sorts [TS]

  of you know in cases and everything like [TS]

  that but back then that was a very [TS]

  important revelation so in the big [TS]

  timeline of Apple 40 years you have to [TS]

  credit them along with the the bringing [TS]

  the GUI to the world into the [TS]

  mass-market you have to also create them [TS]

  and again it's not they weren't the [TS]

  first one the only never do this but [TS]

  they essentially brought the idea to the [TS]

  mass market that it is important how [TS]

  computers look and people will enjoy our [TS]

  products more if they are if they like [TS]

  how they look [TS]

  which again sounds so stupid in [TS]

  retrospect was super important for the [TS]

  entire industry and led the way for [TS]

  everything that came after is the reason [TS]

  you had translucent teal irons and can [TS]

  openers and stop following the imac is [TS]

  people get the wrong idea of like oh we [TS]

  just need to make everything translucent [TS]

  TL like you're taking the wrong nice i [TS]

  like that you're enthusiastic the good [TS]

  enthusiasm you may be taking the wrong [TS]

  idea for this or maybe you just trying [TS]

  to cash in on the imac around either way [TS]

  the whole industry of consumer [TS]

  electronics I feel like has circled out [TS]

  from rippled out from that imac and that [TS]

  people are no longer afraid to do [TS]

  interesting things with their hardware [TS]

  even if everything isn't as exuberant [TS]

  lifesavers like obviously they went to [TS]

  an extreme to make a point you know but [TS]

  today the variety of shapes and textures [TS]

  and and yes even colors of electronics [TS]

  is much greater [TS]

  thanks in no small part Apple yeah i [TS]

  remember i mean i was in college from [TS]

  2000 2004 and you know it was you know [TS]

  it is a like a full you know full-time [TS]

  college kind of things we were in a dorm [TS]

  room and everybody else in the dorm had [TS]

  appliances that they had purchased for [TS]

  their dorm room that were you know [TS]

  designed in 99 2000 right after the imac [TS]

  came out made this big splash and so [TS]

  they were all as you mentioned [TS]

  translucent plastic microwaves and [TS]

  phones and I'd like old you know cordon [TS]

  wireless phones not like cellphones is [TS]

  any kind of appliance you could buy that [TS]

  was relatively inexpensive also the [TS]

  other computers i mean the the look of [TS]

  like compact towers the time and oh god [TS]

  emachines they're just snap there to [TS]

  snap on a faceplate like I have the same [TS]

  beige box like our [TS]

  the one piece of this is plastic can we [TS]

  just mold that piece of plastic out of [TS]

  college translucent plastic done like [TS]

  now it's a beige box with a thanks stuck [TS]

  on the front yeah i mean it was it was [TS]

  really it was like the very first time I [TS]

  think in a while that the entire rest of [TS]

  the industry copy what Apple did at [TS]

  remarkable pace and did so so poorly [TS]

  that you're totally missing the point of [TS]

  why this was good and what what parts of [TS]

  it made it good and everyone was just [TS]

  kind of copied like that the high-level [TS]

  design brief the surface details which [TS]

  is which is not like I mean that's [TS]

  something because it lets not have to [TS]

  redesign everything let them not have to [TS]

  have a design department like Apple does [TS]

  write and let them catch and slightly on [TS]

  people who who have a vague notion that [TS]

  they saw cool to your computer and they [TS]

  wander into bestbuy but I in the [TS]

  subsequent years and companies are way [TS]

  better now at copying matches Apple but [TS]

  anyone in it [TS]

  everybody I'm continually impressed by [TS]

  these formerly very you know sort of [TS]

  boring and uninteresting and risk-averse [TS]

  pc makers all which are obviously hiring [TS]

  their own design departments to make [TS]

  interesting computer designs i mean i [TS]

  like them but they are way more [TS]

  interesting that used to be like the [TS]

  microsoft surface is interesting with [TS]

  that weird hinge thing that HP one [TS]

  that's super slim with little shiny [TS]

  chrome hinges and everything [TS]

  there's no way that the pc industry of [TS]

  the nineties those companies would even [TS]

  have a clue how to do that so they're [TS]

  not just taking their existing computers [TS]

  and talking about your faceplates on [TS]

  them even when they were copying apple [TS]

  by saying we're going to make silver [TS]

  aluminum laptops to look exactly like [TS]

  apples ones they still did a better job [TS]

  of that they did a copying the the imac [TS]

  with the time the imac they didn't know [TS]

  there but from their elbow had no idea [TS]

  what they were doing there just like put [TS]

  something t-line it [TS]

  are we done now I think so good ship it [TS]

  it was literally just bolted on like [TS]

  that you like they had they already had [TS]

  the regular mid-tower they were shipping [TS]

  and they can shove this giant bulbous [TS]

  faceplate on it that had this little [TS]

  translucent second you could pop out and [TS]

  replace the color if you really wanted [TS]

  to like I wow it was it was a really [TS]

  dark time for bc's yeah but always think [TS]

  they got the message the message was and [TS]

  it's not that [TS]

  that was selling so much like the imac [TS]

  was selling millions and millions and [TS]

  millions more than they were saying [TS]

  they're still selling more than Apple [TS]

  especially in those days it's just that [TS]

  they saw the splashing it's like don't [TS]

  people care about our computer like they [TS]

  care about that our computers boring two [TS]

  people want their computers to look nice [TS]

  like this is this strange awakening of [TS]

  again things that sounds so stupid and [TS]

  obvious to us now but back then if you [TS]

  didn't live through it may seem crazy to [TS]

  think that so many of the most dominant [TS]

  computer makers in the world this this [TS]

  kind of design was not even on their [TS]

  radar as far as they're concerned a mac [TS]

  to see I was exactly the same as a pc XD [TS]

  case which Putin just was not the case [TS]

  and mac users can see it but nobody else [TS]

  could until Apple made something teal [TS]

  and translucent this is a potentially [TS]

  related but Marco talking about college [TS]

  and in with people with imax not having [TS]

  I Maxwell not made me remember that mark [TS]

  and I are the same age so we went to [TS]

  school same time and when i was at [TS]

  Virginia Tech they had and I believe [TS]

  still do a very very large off-center [TS]

  off campus computer lab called the math [TS]

  Emporium and it was specifically suited [TS]

  for math related work but it had at the [TS]

  time I gives ilion max in it and I [TS]

  remember two things with it vividly [TS]

  about the mac Emporium in terms of the [TS]

  hardware they are number one the hockey [TS]

  puck mouse is the world is the worst [TS]

  mouse that's ever been created in the [TS]

  history man [TS]

  number two I vividly remember there [TS]

  being g4 cubes all over it when I was [TS]

  there there were like hundreds of them [TS]

  and I remember going to this place and [TS]

  thinking wow that is a very peculiar [TS]

  design for a computer man that's kinda [TS]

  cool and and I remember also v and [TS]

  seeing into my full tower desktop that I [TS]

  had my dorm room and I thought I was the [TS]

  coolest kid in world because some of the [TS]

  guy down the hall show me what what VNC [TS]

  was and the fact that i could log into [TS]

  my computer from somewhere else it was [TS]

  mind-blowing [TS]

  oh that was amazing back then oh yeah we [TS]

  didn't have the x window system on your [TS]

  college campus not good run programs on [TS]

  a different computer and have the result [TS]

  displayed on your computer like it was a [TS]

  terminal for the x window system we call [TS]

  it an xterm yeah I know what you're [TS]

  saying and actually i think that the [TS]

  math emporium was largely largely [TS]

  running on some sort of citrix that [TS]

  which is a similar idea but yeah if I [TS]

  just remember just a sea of g four cubes [TS]

  I wonder whether I've never seen a road [TS]

  like I'd seen people who had been [TS]

  suckered into buying a lot of various [TS]

  handsome computers not suckered but you [TS]

  know like a computer that later turned [TS]

  out to not be a particular popular [TS]

  popular model sort of faded away like [TS]

  one i remember is that [TS]

  rose-hulman which is a small college [TS]

  somewhere that a friend of mine went to [TS]

  the next salesman visited rose-hulman [TS]

  and convince them the next computers [TS]

  where the best things like since sliced [TS]

  bread and honestly they were the best [TS]

  mixing slice bread they sold next [TS]

  computers to rose-hulman they were [TS]

  everywhere and then next was not so much [TS]

  into selling Hardware pretty shortly [TS]

  after that which must have felt bad if [TS]

  you're the one in charge of buying [TS]

  harborough's homeland on the other hand [TS]

  if you went to rose-hulman during that [TS]

  time everybody got to use like next cube [TS]

  next laughs which is which is like [TS]

  living in the future [TS]

  really because even though it was kind [TS]

  of boring and great a lot of the [TS]

  displays for grayscale instead of [TS]

  full-color next step is still pretty [TS]

  amazing that Hardware look awesome got a [TS]

  bunch of antibiotic our final sponsor [TS]

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  betterment advanced advice algorithms [TS]

  and beautiful user interface to manage [TS]

  over four billion of their customer [TS]

  dollars [TS]

  this is the perfect time to get started [TS]

  with betterment and to start saving for [TS]

  your retirement or other financial goals [TS]

  now ATP listeners can get up to six [TS]

  months of no fees learn how at [TS]

  betterment calm / ATP once again up to [TS]

  six months with no fees if you go to [TS]

  betterment calm / ATP [TS]

  betterment investing made better to do I [TS]

  think we found our bumper sounds but we [TS]

  just have all of us make sounds with [TS]

  their mouths mentor couples put them in [TS]

  it will solve the problem of like this [TS]

  too jarring because I just want to hear [TS]

  your voices this will be our voices it [TS]

  won't be but I familiar sound in a car [TS]

  or of the modern computer and royalty [TS]

  free rent i don't know i might wanna [TS]

  world mine [TS]

  yes seriously one of us might change [TS]

  your mind you're now you're now that [TS]

  you're recording artist the vocal [TS]

  stylings of Mark Harmon yeah it's that [TS]

  change licensing of like how you know [TS]

  how we can use Clips so if you go [TS]

  through ASCAP or whatever [TS]

  yes alright those are it so few days ago [TS]

  as we record actually just couple days [TS]

  ago I wrote a post coming to the defense [TS]

  of the Apple watch the post was entitled [TS]

  poor Apple watch and I just feel like [TS]

  lately it's been very trendy to poop all [TS]

  over the Apple watch [TS]

  oh it's a piece of crap it's so slow [TS]

  it's too fat the software doesn't do [TS]

  anything useful [TS]

  I it's not cool look at me i'm going to [TS]

  get either mechanical watch or not we [TS]

  used to watch it all and that's fine you [TS]

  know if that's fine for you or for [TS]

  Merlin or from Marco that's fine they do [TS]

  what you gotta do but I feel like nobody [TS]

  was coming to the defense of the Apple [TS]

  watch and so I thought you know what I [TS]

  will come to the defense of the Apple [TS]

  watch and i just wrote a post saying [TS]

  that you know what I like my watch and [TS]

  it is fat and it is slow and the apps [TS]

  are pretty much entirely useless but for [TS]

  me that's okay I still like having the [TS]

  smart features of my smart watch on my [TS]

  wrist I think a lot of this may come [TS]

  from the fact that I leave the house to [TS]

  go to work and i'm not saying that to be [TS]

  snarky you're smart i'm saying that [TS]

  genuinely that I have appointments and [TS]

  meetings and things that happen [TS]

  throughout my day obligations throughout [TS]

  my day that have to happen certain times [TS]

  and so having my next calendar [TS]

  appointment on my watch face is very [TS]

  convenient [TS]

  additionally i don't get to leave my the [TS]

  building [TS]

  work and occasionally the house if [TS]

  declan's awake [TS]

  I don't get to leave where I am whenever [TS]

  I want just on a lark and so having the [TS]

  temperature on my watch face is really [TS]

  nice and on top of that i like having [TS]

  activity rings particularly the standing [TS]

  because as we all know I happen to be a [TS]

  blue ring stud [TS]

  so yes there's a lot to dislike about [TS]

  the Apple watch full stop [TS]

  I completely agree the apps are useless [TS]

  i never use them i really never used [TS]

  glances for the most part i wish we had [TS]

  custom watch faces i would love to be [TS]

  able to do more with complications [TS]

  either have more of them on the screen [TS]

  or or maybe have them be more [TS]

  intelligent somehow i'm not even sure [TS]

  how but all in all I still really like [TS]

  by Apple watch and I'm looking around [TS]

  and I'm starting to feel like i'm the [TS]

  only one [TS]

  John are you wearing yours now I right [TS]

  time we talked about this a while ago [TS]

  yeah I bailed on using it mostly because [TS]

  i found myself going through entire days [TS]

  without having any meaningful [TS]

  interaction with it including check me [TS]

  for the time which is not a habit i had [TS]

  and I'm not a watch where and it annoys [TS]

  me to have a thing on my wrist so i have [TS]

  i have built-in negatives and that [TS]

  anything you buy rest overcome with my [TS]

  aversion to ever having anything on my [TS]

  wrist ever and I don't have any habits [TS]

  built-in for watching so i need to [TS]

  deposit of to offset that and the [TS]

  positives evaporated I stopped wearing [TS]

  it and the positives were the positives [TS]

  were like I you know I like the [TS]

  notifications like the text i like the [TS]

  activity tracking but there wasn't [TS]

  enough to overcome my desire to not have [TS]

  something on my wrist although now that [TS]

  i'm about to know travel i'm going to [TS]

  bring my watch with me and probably [TS]

  we're on vacation because i'm walking [TS]

  around a different city it is convenient [TS]

  to be able to for example set a [TS]

  destination on your phone and put your [TS]

  phone in your pocket and not to take it [TS]

  out again and just walk there and have [TS]

  your wrist tell you which way to go [TS]

  same thing for driving i kind of like [TS]

  that you know i don't need it when I'm [TS]

  going to and from work every day is you [TS]

  can you know there's no directions need [TS]

  to have but if you're an unfamiliar [TS]

  place driving around [TS]

  it's nice to have that so I still think [TS]

  it has value [TS]

  I still like it I feel like how it looks [TS]

  I still don't like wearing a watch so [TS]

  yeah that's pretty much where it is son [TS]

  and spends all his time on my dresser do [TS]

  you hate having something on your wrist [TS]

  because of your shag carpet arm hair or [TS]

  just because you hate having something [TS]

  on your wrist [TS]

  I think it's mostly because of RS I [TS]

  actually like the same reason I stopped [TS]

  wearing my wedding ring is that was very [TS]

  sensitive to have anything in that area [TS]

  as I'm sitting there typing all day of [TS]

  just everything about it's sensitive and [TS]

  want any pressure on anything grabbing [TS]

  it on anything rubbing against it even [TS]

  like the wrong kind of like sleeve cuffs [TS]

  when I wear long sleeves can bother me [TS]

  so yeah and that I don't have any in [TS]

  green habits of like I'm always looking [TS]

  I risks i just left again I think we [TS]

  discuss for last time I watch like [TS]

  middle school when I just came old [TS]

  enough to have a watch and wanted to try [TS]

  it out and I work for a little while [TS]

  like some plastic digital watching [TS]

  decided it wasn't for me so I'm just [TS]

  gotta watch person [TS]

  alright so i wanted to save you for last [TS]

  Marco to your website [TS]

  well i mean first of all I i think it's [TS]

  not a very good argument to say like [TS]

  well it seems trained to hate this thing [TS]

  right now you know that's that's just [TS]

  whoever you're reading which includes [TS]

  people like me who who are not cooling [TS]

  or have cooled on the Apple watch em die [TS]

  I think what we're seeing here I mean [TS]

  there's a number of factors here I don't [TS]

  question the apple watch utility for a [TS]

  lot of people but and in fact you know I [TS]

  final utility my word as well it's just [TS]

  you know the the downside of it bother [TS]

  me too much and I found I preferred [TS]

  regular watches rather than you know the [TS]

  guy I went from no watch to an Apple [TS]

  watch 20 I like watches turns out but [TS]

  most of what i do is tell the time and [TS]

  regular watches just do a way better job [TS]

  of that for my purposes because they're [TS]

  always on and not charge a better what I [TS]

  found that you know i think if you look [TS]

  kind of like globally step back from you [TS]

  know what any individual's personal [TS]

  needs are and personal opinions about [TS]

  the Apple watch our i think you can step [TS]

  back and you can you can see this [TS]

  product as really a really mixed bag as [TS]

  a one-point product and there's a few [TS]

  things that exacerbate this one of which [TS]

  is that it's going more than a year as a [TS]

  one point out and as we I mean we talked [TS]

  about this before so I don't go too far [TS]

  into it but like it's looking like we're [TS]

  not going to get a good successor to it [TS]

  for you know at least now which is now [TS]

  is like a year after it came out or at [TS]

  least not gettin it now we might not [TS]

  even get it in until the the summer or [TS]

  the fall or even next spring we don't [TS]

  actually know when they're gonna be [TS]

  second generation and where the second [TS]

  generation will be very good for you [TS]

  very much of an improvement in the areas [TS]

  that that you know any person thinks [TS]

  that it needs it so we we are still [TS]

  judging this thing on generation one but [TS]

  generation one is not only longer than [TS]

  these things usually are usually a year [TS]

  or less so it only being a long [TS]

  generation one but also I feel like the [TS]

  generation 1 hardware and software were [TS]

  both pretty mediocre on the scale of [TS]

  like various Apple first gen products [TS]

  you know certainly not every Apple first [TS]

  prophecy is is a great product or a huge [TS]

  hit [TS]

  but I think as they go especially in [TS]

  recent years as they go [TS]

  I think the watch has been a pretty [TS]

  mediocre one you know in terms of like [TS]

  bugs performance limitations things like [TS]

  that what we're finding with Apple I've [TS]

  talked before about this issue with like [TS]

  the low-hanging fruit has all been [TS]

  picked everywhere and and so what we [TS]

  have now is like the the kind of [TS]

  baseline products the max the iphones [TS]

  into most to most of a degree the ipads [TS]

  these things are mature the innovation [TS]

  on them has slowed but they're pretty [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  they have you know that there they have [TS]

  great performance they have great [TS]

  physical characteristics a great balance [TS]

  between like size and weight and battery [TS]

  life for the most part we know very few [TS]

  exceptions [TS]

  these are all very mature products but [TS]

  Apple is a company that depends on [TS]

  trying to sell its customers more [TS]

  devices and trying to sell devices to [TS]

  more customers so is Apple's job as a [TS]

  hardware maker to just try stuff in the [TS]

  market to say you know hey dude you know [TS]

  everybody has a phone like people of [TS]

  computers multiple computers is [TS]

  everybody also need a tablet let's try [TS]

  is everybody also need to watch [TS]

  let's try everybody also need a TV box [TS]

  let's try you know they that is their [TS]

  job but all these mature things that are [TS]

  at the core of things you know basically [TS]

  computers in the phones maybe the [TS]

  tablets that covers most people's needs [TS]

  so we are custom to judging apple on [TS]

  their products based on those products [TS]

  those core products most of the computer [TS]

  on the phone which is like yeah sure [TS]

  almost everyone could use those [TS]

  and so it's easy to look at that and say [TS]

  well if Apple makes a computer or phone [TS]

  that sucks for me [TS]

  that kind of sucks for everybody and and [TS]

  why they do it you know and whether [TS]

  that's true or not these people to look [TS]

  at that way with the watch i feel like [TS]

  we went into it with that kind of [TS]

  expectation and a lot of people bought [TS]

  it is an expectation of like it's a it's [TS]

  a new high-profile apple product line of [TS]

  course it's gonna be for me [TS]

  of course it's going to be for everybody [TS]

  and of course is going to be good and I [TS]

  think what we're seeing is it's hard to [TS]

  find new things that are for everybody [TS]

  in technology new things are going to be [TS]

  potentially as big as phones or [TS]

  computers or tablets or anything else [TS]

  this is our heart problems and the watch [TS]

  you know because of the incredibly [TS]

  strong demands that the conflicting [TS]

  demands of that kind of product you have [TS]

  severe size constraints severe power [TS]

  constraints [TS]

  it's really too is your cost constraints [TS]

  it's just very hard to to get a good [TS]

  SmartWatch product on the market it's [TS]

  just really hard to do and I think we're [TS]

  seeing is this is an apple product that [TS]

  we thought was going to be for everybody [TS]

  but just isn't it's just not you know [TS]

  it's just like you can look at any kind [TS]

  of watch and you can even know kind of [TS]

  watches for everybody not even rolex or [TS]

  Omega Omega people sorry ahead not not [TS]

  every watch for everybody and the Apple [TS]

  watch it has not replaced all watches [TS]

  and is not replace everybody's phones or [TS]

  anything like that and never will [TS]

  it is it is a product that is going to [TS]

  work for some people but it's not a home [TS]

  run for everybody or even the people who [TS]

  works for having a home run necessarily [TS]

  for them it's just decent maybe you know [TS]

  but it's it's hard to make new stuff [TS]

  that is going to be really great anymore [TS]

  because so much has already been made [TS]

  and has already matured in these areas [TS]

  in the areas of Technology and you know [TS]

  things like this that that people are [TS]

  people are you know working on the [TS]

  industry so I I don't think it's bad to [TS]

  say the apple watch isn't for me and I [TS]

  don't think it's a sign of the watch has [TS]

  failed [TS]

  it to into if a lot of people think it's [TS]

  not for them but i also think that the [TS]

  watch as a one-point product was really [TS]

  done with a lot of mediocrity and it is [TS]

  it is not unfair to criticize that it is [TS]

  it is these are real shortcomings it has [TS]

  it has real problems real shortcomings [TS]

  really you know real design ? sand and [TS]

  missed opportunities and we're choices [TS]

  they made and all this will probably be [TS]

  fixed over time I hope it is and maybe [TS]

  someday I'll go back to it as a brother [TS]

  part that i use on a regular basis [TS]

  because there are things about it that I [TS]

  do miss you know I i think i'm mostly [TS]

  mr. while driving [TS]

  that's like you know to have like a [TS]

  quick glance of like why did my phones [TS]

  vibrate in my pocket long driving which [TS]

  is probably safe and I probably [TS]

  shouldn't even look at the watch but [TS]

  that is what is it and so overall though [TS]

  I I think again these are hard problems [TS]

  and where we are in an era now where the [TS]

  new things that Apple makes are not [TS]

  going to be guaranteed to be mass market [TS]

  and that's probably okay i think the [TS]

  watch was a good bet for mass-market [TS]

  though because wearables car have a much [TS]

  broader appeal than computing devices [TS]

  because many more people spend more time [TS]

  wearing things during the day they spend [TS]

  using computers nothing everybody's [TS]

  watch where but wearables as a category [TS]

  like if you had to pick a category of [TS]

  areas that Apple should get into the [TS]

  kind of on the cusp of like well we [TS]

  mostly do computery things and we're [TS]

  getting to the point where you can have [TS]

  a computer anything that's part of [TS]

  clothing or jewelry in some way I does [TS]

  that mean glasses like Google was doing [TS]

  does that mean watches it mean like a [TS]

  little fitness turd like Fitbit is doing [TS]

  or something else as a category i think [TS]

  this was a very smart bet for Apple to [TS]

  get into their first entry in the [TS]

  category you know they learn that move [TS]

  on i hope they don't abandon it because [TS]

  if you're looking for another mass [TS]

  market thing I think that the categories [TS]

  are looking at are all potential winners [TS]

  lots of people watch television or watch [TS]

  a video or something having to do with [TS]

  TV is a good idea [TS]

  lots of people have cell phones that was [TS]

  a good market from lots of people where [TS]

  things also a good market and add [TS]

  as computers get smaller and lighter [TS]

  weight and the power requirements go [TS]

  down and so on and so forth that that [TS]

  entire category will only become more [TS]

  viable so if i had to look like broad [TS]

  strokes long-term product strategy i [TS]

  think it was really smart for Apple to [TS]

  get into wearables and I really hope [TS]

  they do stick it out and learn their [TS]

  lessons make better products keep [TS]

  iterating and innovating because these [TS]

  type of products played all their [TS]

  strengths miniaturization mass [TS]

  manufacturing of beautiful objects [TS]

  especially the ability to make things [TS]

  that are appealing to people visually [TS]

  they were just talking about with the [TS]

  imac that's important when you're [TS]

  wearing it an apple has shown with their [TS]

  watch brands and their watch designs [TS]

  within the constraints of the tech [TS]

  available they're actually pretty good [TS]

  at that part of it too [TS]

  yeah they just have to figure out how to [TS]

  make the product part of it and and if I [TS]

  think about the first ipod was pretty [TS]

  crappy to it's just that the first ipod [TS]

  had such huge positive 20 allies [TS]

  negatives in the watches like that some [TS]

  positives that way someone's negatives [TS]

  but net is not as compelling product [TS]

  yeah and and ultimately I i think what [TS]

  would give me concerned about the watch [TS]

  is the apparent slow pace of progress [TS]

  and you know we will see what happens [TS]

  the next time there is a substantial [TS]

  update to even the hardware or the [TS]

  software will see you know I this could [TS]

  totally change my tone about it but [TS]

  right now it appears to be moving pretty [TS]

  slowly I don't know I I don't outright [TS]

  disagree with anything you just said but [TS]

  if we really step back and think about [TS]

  it [TS]

  first of all as someone who works in an [TS]

  office building like John does i see so [TS]

  many Fitbit bracelet he watching things [TS]

  i can't even count them and I concur [TS]

  with what John said that wearables are a [TS]

  market that I think it's going to be [TS]

  getting a bit going to be a bigger [TS]

  market with time and I think that Apple [TS]

  playing in this market is a wise choice [TS]

  recently it was the day or two ago I [TS]

  watched that classic Louis CK Louie CK a [TS]

  video when he was on Conan about people [TS]

  getting pissed off about not having [TS]

  Wi-Fi and they're flying tube [TS]

  you know people getting all upset about [TS]

  the fact that they're in an airplane and [TS]

  don't have Wi-Fi and this is not the [TS]

  same as is people getting upset about [TS]

  their watch but at the same time I have [TS]

  a mini computer on my friggin wrist that [TS]

  can with limitations connect to almost [TS]

  all the known information on the planet [TS]

  on the internet that's pretty freaking [TS]

  amazing and i agree that there's a lot [TS]

  that's frustrating about my watch i [TS]

  never use apps for of several different [TS]

  reasons number one of which it's so so [TS]

  so to do any thing and it's infuriating [TS]

  but not nevertheless i have this device [TS]

  that tracks my heartbeat it tracks how [TS]

  much I'm standing how much I'm moving it [TS]

  tracks when my next appointment is like [TS]

  John was saying if I'm in a city that [TS]

  i'm not familiar with and I'm walking [TS]

  around I can do so without having my [TS]

  phone out screaming I'm a tourist please [TS]

  Robbie there's so many things for me [TS]

  that I really like about this and that [TS]

  impressed me so deeply about it [TS]

  especially given the unbelievable [TS]

  engineering constraints that that were [TS]

  that this product was made under its to [TS]

  me it's such an impressive product and [TS]

  there is so much that could be done to [TS]

  make it better Marco you're absolutely [TS]

  right about that i mean i can't argue [TS]

  with with that at all but for me it's [TS]

  still it's still something that adds [TS]

  value to my life and I still like it and [TS]

  I just feel like I think the thing of it [TS]

  is is that it was like a switch flipped [TS]

  and suddenly everyone was talking about [TS]

  how much they don't want to wear an [TS]

  Apple watch anymore and that in and of [TS]

  itself that's fine but it just seemed [TS]

  weird to me and I felt bad for the poor [TS]

  little apple watch and i still feel bad [TS]

  for the poor little apple watch the cute [TS]

  little feller and and I feel like [TS]

  somebody needed to build it up a little [TS]

  bit i don't know enough people who are [TS]

  not tech nerds who have an Apple watch [TS]

  know how it's playing in a non-tech [TS]

  marry crackle obviously we're all [TS]

  talking about the technology and they're [TS]

  the ones writing things about how [TS]

  they're not using their watching [TS]

  whatever and yet it did kind of all come [TS]

  together it's because i think people [TS]

  slowly stopped wearing them and then the [TS]

  people who need to tell the world that [TS]

  they slowly stopped wearing them had to [TS]

  write stories about it and then other [TS]

  people saw the stories and the felt safe [TS]

  that make [TS]

  now admit that they slowly stopped [TS]

  wearing them which is fine i guess how [TS]

  the press cycle goes but it's still all [TS]

  within just the sort of tech nerd [TS]

  circles and I'm sure that watch selling [TS]

  outside technology circles you can tell [TS]

  by the huge spike in sales that they [TS]

  seem to have from everything we're able [TS]

  to understand from Apple's uh closely [TS]

  guarded secrets about how much how many [TS]

  watches they're selling exactly during [TS]

  the holidays because technically don't [TS]

  say they're spending the holidays they [TS]

  buy it as soon as it's released [TS]

  no I'm actually are you know anecdotally [TS]

  I've seen since the holidays I've seen a [TS]

  lot more Apple watches in the real world [TS]

  oftentimes on on you know non-geeks or [TS]

  at least people who speak status is [TS]

  unknown to me [TS]

  yeah because i'm at something they must [TS]

  be selling them i just i don't know [TS]

  those people so I can't sort of get a [TS]

  read on like not none of my family or [TS]

  friends who are not tech nerds have an [TS]

  Apple watch i would love to know what [TS]

  regular people think of the Apple watch [TS]

  is still kind of Shirley Apple knows [TS]

  because it's their job to know i can [TS]

  imagine regular people not being is [TS]

  picky about it but also not becoming [TS]

  eternally addicted to it like they were [TS]

  once you start selling ipods the regular [TS]

  people once that wasn't a [TS]

  four-hundred-dollar accessories only [TS]

  work with macs like once you know yet [TS]

  the Dominions stuff people love their [TS]

  ipods man they love them like and do [TS]

  people love their Apple watch her do [TS]

  they say it's pretty cool and it was a [TS]

  good Christmas present that I got but i [TS]

  don't know if they are so incredibly in [TS]

  love with it as they were with their [TS]

  smartphones or their their iPods or [TS]

  whatever so we'll see next Christmas and [TS]

  and how they rate on this i'm good i'm [TS]

  entirely open to the idea that Apple can [TS]

  try other kinds of wearables whether [TS]

  it's fitness turd or you know an earring [TS]

  or a ring or something involving glasses [TS]

  and there was discussion on Twitter [TS]

  today about Apple cables are panic was [TS]

  disappointed that Apple wasn't anywhere [TS]

  on the radar when it came to VR and if [TS]

  you want to do vr you had to basically [TS]

  build a pc because no Mac we are [TS]

  discussing know Mac you can buy as is [TS]

  vital for which is entirely true because [TS]

  the max technically capable of doing [TS]

  your experience with the current be our [TS]

  products to the the pioneers of the VR [TS]

  industry [TS]

  re there you know you need a game [TS]

  console or you need a pc and no matter [TS]

  what makes you have [TS]

  forget it and so he was considered [TS]

  cables concerned that Apple's missing [TS]

  out on this that they are watching this [TS]

  one go by and again we've talked many [TS]

  times about the supposed rumored to be [TS]

  our things that Apple surely toying with [TS]

  internally but as far as I'm aware [TS]

  there's no there's no credible rumors [TS]

  about Apple feeling any products in that [TS]

  area [TS]

  I i think they should be experimented [TS]

  with it and same thing with wearables I [TS]

  think they should be experimenting but [TS]

  everything having to do with wearables [TS]

  not just watches and some people [TS]

  something back without recently was like [TS]

  you guys say that Apple spread too thin [TS]

  but on the other hand you're always [TS]

  saying Apple has to be checking out [TS]

  everything there's a difference between [TS]

  fielding a product of platform or [TS]

  investigating like apples job is to try [TS]

  everything to see what you know not in [TS]

  the market but like tried out internally [TS]

  make sure someone is working on VR make [TS]

  sure someone's working on this that [TS]

  maybe not cards right but everything is [TS]

  close to their industry be don't let it [TS]

  catch you by surprise and then figure [TS]

  out of all those things is it someplace [TS]

  where we can sell a good product you [TS]

  know can we can we [TS]

  you know make a significant contribution [TS]

  to this market how big is the potential [TS]

  market that's what they should be doing [TS]

  internally you can't do is actually say [TS]

  we need to be in every single market [TS]

  like Microsoft in the nineties we need [TS]

  to make if there's a technological thing [TS]

  that can run software we need to make [TS]

  one of them and we need to sell it as a [TS]

  product we need to support it forever [TS]

  because then you just end up with too [TS]

  much crap so it's being spread too thin [TS]

  as when you do more than you can do [TS]

  externally and then doing due diligence [TS]

  internally is saying we need to be [TS]

  looking at everything we need to not be [TS]

  caught by surprise we need to it's very [TS]

  least be making an internal [TS]

  determination of it's not time for us to [TS]

  enter that market will continue looking [TS]

  at so much cheaper to just continue to [TS]

  investigate internally it gets really [TS]

  expensive once you say you know we're [TS]

  gonna make a product that's one of the [TS]

  rumors about the car by the way is [TS]

  someone inside decided we can we can [TS]

  innovate in the car space whether it's [TS]

  with electric cars self-driving cars or [TS]

  whatever whatever they're gonna do right [TS]

  and the room I heard was that Apple had [TS]

  essentially said they're willing to [TS]

  spend a billion dollars on development [TS]

  of a car and then walk away from the [TS]

  entire project doesn't like it's working [TS]

  out so that's like that [TS]

  now again it's just a rumor who knows [TS]

  but that's the mindset you have to go in [TS]

  with because how do you know whether you [TS]

  can do something good in the car space [TS]

  you can think about it all you want but [TS]

  at a certain point someone has said all [TS]

  right I think we can do something let's [TS]

  give it a try and if you have budgets [TS]

  the size of Apple you could say all [TS]

  right we'll put a billion dollars into [TS]

  this and then we'll revisit mostly once [TS]

  we spend a billion dollars [TS]

  what do we think guys is this ready and [TS]

  gals to a lifetime of sexist language [TS]

  cemented my freakin break anyway what do [TS]

  we think of this is this going to be a [TS]

  product worthy of Apple should be [TS]

  release it and that's where Martin comes [TS]

  and yells at you and says you know what [TS]

  maybe the watch wasn't a product worthy [TS]

  of Apple quite yet we think we're both [TS]

  are great but when it's time to give the [TS]

  go/no-go maybe let it bake a little [TS]

  longer anyway [TS]

  or maybe it was the wrong approach yeah [TS]

  that the rumored attitude with the car [TS]

  and i think is the right attitude is get [TS]

  while the getting's good you've got a [TS]

  lot of money you can invest a lot just [TS]

  because you put a billion dollars into [TS]

  it doesn't mean you actually have to [TS]

  ship a car you can put a billion dollars [TS]

  in and say we thought we could do [TS]

  something really interesting here it [TS]

  turns out we can't [TS]

  lesson learned move on that's doing your [TS]

  due diligence if they're doing that VR [TS]

  we've been looking to be off for two [TS]

  decades we have people doing AR and VR [TS]

  internally we've been investigating for [TS]

  as long as be investigating anything any [TS]

  of the technologies that we actually [TS]

  released like touch screens and voice [TS]

  recognition and all these things we've [TS]

  been doing the last forever and ever and [TS]

  Apple when it's time to come out with a [TS]

  product we feel like we can make [TS]

  contribution we will until then we won't [TS]

  so that's why we always just assume here [TS]

  on the outside of course i was looking [TS]

  to be are and sometimes in our darker [TS]

  moments to think right right Apple [TS]

  you're at least experimenting with [TS]

  internal doesn't mean you need to feel [TS]

  the product that doesn't mean you must [TS]

  compete with the oculus rift today like [TS]

  there's so many questions about VR still [TS]

  you know we still don't know what's [TS]

  going to happen there but we just hope [TS]

  that Apple as the richest technology [TS]

  company in the world at the very least [TS]

  is investigating all these avenues for [TS]

  wearable same thing it you can wear a [TS]

  lot of Technology things on your body [TS]

  and a lot of people where things in [TS]

  their body everyday and apple could sell [TS]

  them something that makes their lives [TS]

  better [TS]

  that would be perfect thanks lat 43 [TS]

  sponsors this week [TS]

  mat.com freshbooks and betterment and we [TS]

  will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental Jonathan [TS]

  any research Marco in kc wouldn't let [TS]

  you know [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  know today p dot and if twitter follow [TS]

  them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  check [TS]

  we talked about that uh that max thing [TS]

  oh oh yeah I didn't get a chance to reel [TS]

  under all these what's jon's mom who's [TS]

  Californian what the hell is that it's [TS]

  been our show notes for like three years [TS]

  to bike [TS]

  yeah but just everything I can talk [TS]

  about it sometime but not today not [TS]

  today i'm not prepared for it not ready [TS]

  the whole all you know what the whole [TS]

  purpose of this show you don't mean it's [TS]

  not like I need to I just need to know [TS]

  that's the thing we're going to talk [TS]

  about tonight now that the max thing is [TS]

  good idea because i forgot that was [TS]

  there and I did look at that page [TS]

  yes I didn't get a guy didn't get a good [TS]

  look at it I looked at the picture so i [TS]

  really liked him [TS]

  that's mean that's a lot of it so yes [TS]

  sir there's a blog post by Andrew [TS]

  ambrosino on medium called Mac awesome [TS]

  at any cos that you know the lowercase [TS]

  Mac way that we think they're going to [TS]

  rename it colon it's time to take the [TS]

  next step and he basically outlines a [TS]

  number of like substantial changes that [TS]

  that he he thinks should be done or he [TS]

  proposes might might be good to mac OS [TS]

  in things like design and interface [TS]

  changes and really kind of making it he [TS]

  was he was originally responding a [TS]

  little bit too steep transmits claim [TS]

  back in his day bc wish list post few [TS]

  months or a couple months back or a [TS]

  couple weeks back that he was saying [TS]

  secret and Smith said that he really [TS]

  believes that OS 10 is a dead platform [TS]

  and kind of elaborate on that [TS]

  so this so Andrew here basically kind of [TS]

  took that further like well you know [TS]

  what does os10 need to kind of take the [TS]

  next level 22 to remain relevant to go [TS]

  the next step and there's a number eat [TS]

  it if I could summarize it he basically [TS]

  makes the interface look a lot more like [TS]

  iOS apps that are kind of being windowed [TS]

  in regular in like a regular os10 [TS]

  environment so it basically it's it's a [TS]

  it's a significant design refresh around [TS]

  a more iose style for lots of apps in [TS]

  the system rather than what we have now [TS]

  is kind of like you know mostly apt-get [TS]

  styles and then some apps like photos or [TS]

  more iose [TS]

  on any proposed if you have things like [TS]

  any file system thing and a few other [TS]

  things so I don't know what you guys [TS]

  think of it I think it's really [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  it does not look as much like iOS as you [TS]

  think it does and i also think it [TS]

  doesn't take much to get a designer's [TS]

  juices flowing [TS]

  I think all you need to throw them is [TS]

  the again mostly agreed upon by the [TS]

  people out in the outside world [TS]

  renaming of the operating system to [TS]

  match iOS and TV us and watch us to have [TS]

  a lowercase M my question we've been [TS]

  talking about for months and months i [TS]

  think that's basically all you need you [TS]

  can just put that little grain of sand [TS]

  in the mind of designer and they [TS]

  immediately want to design screenshots [TS]

  of what this always look at starting [TS]

  like this one does but the with the [TS]

  about screen because it if you don't [TS]

  think that changing the capitalization [TS]

  and naming of an operating system can [TS]

  lead to a visual design you don't have [TS]

  much of a designer in you because it [TS]

  doesn't take much to get that ball [TS]

  rolling and I like these screenshots but [TS]

  they remind me a lot of what i see [TS]

  whenever there is a new mac operating [TS]

  system coming designers want to say this [TS]

  though I would make it look and i have [TS]

  to say that most of them I feel like are [TS]

  doing a surface treatment they are [TS]

  reskinning without rethinking any of the [TS]

  paradigms because they have a dock on [TS]

  the bottom menu bar on the top they have [TS]

  windows with Windows widgets and [TS]

  toolbars and search fields and sidebars [TS]

  and and master detail views and you know [TS]

  table views and scrolling list of [TS]

  thumbnails and it's like that's not [TS]

  rethinking anything that's exactly what [TS]

  the mac operating system is now and what [TS]

  has been for years and years and just [TS]

  because on your video player you put a [TS]

  big circle kinda like there is on the [TS]

  iphone camera does not to change the [TS]

  interface of dealing with video on the [TS]

  mac at all like a real paradigm shift [TS]

  would be away from some aspect that has [TS]

  defined the the Macan that the basic [TS]

  desktop the operating system or that's [TS]

  you know in the modern era the doc but [TS]

  really just movable resizable windows [TS]

  with widgets and toolbars and menu bar [TS]

  on the top of the screen like when you [TS]

  come down to it I'm not saying that [TS]

  needs to change but anybody was like [TS]

  this needs to be we need to have a [TS]

  rethink of the mac because it is [TS]

  stagnating and then they show every skin [TS]

  type of thing that's there seems to be a [TS]

  disagreement between with between the [TS]

  spirit of the tech [TS]

  stand the actuality of the images even [TS]

  though I'm sure these images are [TS]

  exciting to the person who drew them and [TS]

  they do look kind of cool even if they [TS]

  do look a little bit like the current uh [TS]

  look and feel the system maybe just rest [TS]

  up a little bit yeah if you're if you're [TS]

  pitches in the text that needs a radical [TS]

  rethink then the screenshot should be a [TS]

  radical rethink and I don't think these [TS]

  are on the other hand if your pitch is [TS]

  you know when we talk about the best [TS]

  shows that the max should be i take [TS]

  advantage of its maturity and just [TS]

  decrease the number of bugs and [TS]

  increased performance and stability over [TS]

  and over again until it is just like [TS]

  rock solid super responsive like a game [TS]

  console in the olden days when there was [TS]

  no such thing as framerate drops and [TS]

  just everything happens because the [TS]

  screen can handle it sprites on the [TS]

  screen at the time and they're always [TS]

  perfect and there's never any dropping [TS]

  frame rate and everything is perfectly [TS]

  responsive and stable thing never [TS]

  crashes because you can't do software [TS]

  updates on a cartridge and nothing's [TS]

  ever going to change anyway I am NOT [TS]

  that has to be a nostalgic type of thing [TS]

  but like that is that is another route [TS]

  you can go with the mac not gonna [TS]

  radically rethink it make it the best [TS]

  version of the current mac operating [TS]

  system that could possibly be as in the [TS]

  same paradigm resizable windows [TS]

  scrollbars window widgets menu bars that [TS]

  is a powerful paradigm that its last us [TS]

  a long time you can do amazing things [TS]

  with it and there's nothing really [TS]

  particularly broken about it for the [TS]

  current customers of the mac plenty [TS]

  things broken out for the mass market [TS]

  would much rather use their smartphones [TS]

  not again setting that aside for now you [TS]

  can take the mac on face value for what [TS]

  it is [TS]

  who wouldn't love a mac that reacted to [TS]

  your input faster that did everything [TS]

  faster that never crashed never stalled [TS]

  never did anything weird [TS]

  can you do that it's easier to do that [TS]

  if you say that's all we're going to do [TS]

  with this thing we're not going to try [TS]

  to come up with big important features [TS]

  every single time we're going to say if [TS]

  there's a big important feature crying [TS]

  out to be appointed by all means [TS]

  wouldn't like it but if there's not we [TS]

  will not feel ashamed to spend an entire [TS]

  year just polishing the hell out of the [TS]

  mac operating system i know i would love [TS]

  that and I know a lot of the existing [TS]

  customers would love that and maybe you [TS]

  could say that defines a dead platform [TS]

  because stability equals death but that [TS]

  is one possible route to go to make the [TS]

  people who use the mac now [TS]

  but even more and I think to extend its [TS]

  life because in order for the mac to [TS]

  continue to be viable it has to continue [TS]

  to offer things better than iOS and I [TS]

  was getting better all the time and if [TS]

  the mac operating system is not also [TS]

  getting better [TS]

  eventually those lines on the graph [TS]

  across and there's no more points for [TS]

  having the mac yeah i mean i-i think it [TS]

  really comes down to like you know is is [TS]

  the mac being treated you know harvest [TS]

  platform why software-wise it being [TS]

  treated like the macbook air which is [TS]

  kind of like you just can't we're going [TS]

  to keep selling it for a while until it [TS]

  becomes irrelevant or dies then we're [TS]

  going to kind of stop or is it an active [TS]

  platform that Apple wants to keep going [TS]

  indefinitely and I think it's the latter [TS]

  and I think we've you know we've heard [TS]

  comments that effect from craig [TS]

  federighi and I think maybe even from [TS]

  phil schiller and so either way I'd it [TS]

  does seem like that is the idea that the [TS]

  mac is not dead it's not just in [TS]

  maintenance mode until it gets subsumed [TS]

  by iOS it does seem like they want to to [TS]

  keep moving it forward it really just [TS]

  needs know maybe the resources to do [TS]

  that and maybe they're doing that [TS]

  already i don't know but I if they're [TS]

  going to keep it going as a platform i [TS]

  think i got to make a John argument here [TS]

  but like they have to eventually make [TS]

  like massive jumps in certain areas like [TS]

  eventually like whatever we know as os10 [TS]

  there's gonna be like you know max 11 or [TS]

  whatever whatever the movie called like [TS]

  eventually there was going to be like [TS]

  the next big jump forward on this [TS]

  platform at least there needs to be it's [TS]

  going to remain relevant and and I it [TS]

  doesn't it's hard to tell whether it's [TS]

  getting the resources the attention it [TS]

  needs internally to be on track for that [TS]

  or whether they're mostly focused on iOS [TS]

  right now but i don't know maybe the [TS]

  naming like is a their way of doing this [TS]

  I wonder if they're going to reset the [TS]

  version numbers they start from one [TS]

  point out this is macross one point now [TS]

  instead and under the covers of course [TS]

  they would still be like you know 10 12 [TS]

  whatever just for software backward [TS]

  about some kind of like how Windows has [TS]

  the crazy version number that he got [TS]

  scared off because they continue where [TS]

  they do the NT version numbers i think a [TS]

  few thousand yeah anyway i can imagine [TS]

  that they're doing something like that [TS]

  that's not the big reset we're talking [TS]

  about this was the other direction was [TS]

  like alright then radically rethink it [TS]

  radically rethink my governing system do [TS]

  do another mac western-style transition [TS]

  that can be dangerous too because you [TS]

  could just be annoying the remaining [TS]

  customers you have to say forget this [TS]

  and I'm going to go through a big change [TS]

  and just gonna learn how to use an iPad [TS]

  pro I don't know but at the very least [TS]

  renaming and reskinning can actually go [TS]

  a long way towards getting people [TS]

  excited about a platform again even if [TS]

  it's all service details if you also do [TS]

  some other things right that like that's [TS]

  another free again me like do you want [TS]

  to do a a make things faster and fix [TS]

  bugs release but make people think it's [TS]

  a feature release just change how [TS]

  everything looks maybe like well this [TS]

  new microorganism it's crazy when all [TS]

  they did was all they did was change [TS]

  graphics and then they spent the whole [TS]

  rest of the time fixing bugs increasing [TS]

  performance and as someone who write [TS]

  software and someone who likes software [TS]

  updates i'm obviously more excited than [TS]

  normal people are about this i love when [TS]

  a new version of a software product that [TS]

  I use comes out that they tell me [TS]

  something in it is faster i love that [TS]

  I've because you know as a programmer i [TS]

  love doing that i love you know deleting [TS]

  code that no longer has executed on [TS]

  every you know frame of animation or in [TS]

  every time this thing happens like I [TS]

  love better algorithms that scale better [TS]

  with large amounts of content handles [TS]

  huge numbers of photos better like you [TS]

  know even something as simple as better [TS]

  responsiveness during scrolling or like [TS]

  you know [TS]

  loading things are like performance i [TS]

  love things when they get better like [TS]

  that and regular people don't don't [TS]

  really care about that but they feel it [TS]

  that you know if you do that [TS]

  consistently people have sort of [TS]

  intangible feeling that your product is [TS]

  better than others in ways they can [TS]

  explain it because it really and in the [TS]

  same way that if you give someone the [TS]

  original iphone and then gave them [TS]

  another touchscreen phone another [TS]

  contemporary touchscreen phone everyone [TS]

  could tell you that the iphone was way [TS]

  better even if they don't know like oh I [TS]

  right I recognizes superior product [TS]

  because the hardware is nicer or the [TS]

  stupid thing we actually reacts to my [TS]

  finger like they don't have to [TS]

  understand the nuances of of finger [TS]

  reaction but the general public [TS]

  immediately saw that no this is [TS]

  different than the touch screen that I [TS]

  hate on my ATM this touchscreen is [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  the ATM sketch me is terrible and I can [TS]

  I don't need to tell you the technical [TS]

  reasons why just recognize it so if you [TS]

  make a product that is more stable more [TS]

  reliable [TS]

  and faster and more responsive and you [TS]

  keep doing that on a regular basis [TS]

  customers will react they will love your [TS]

  product more and those of us in the know [TS]

  will also react and that you know you [TS]

  don't you don't need to win us over the [TS]

  real winners everyone else who will feel [TS]

  that but boy I love products that you [TS]

  know that's an any product that hasn't [TS]

  release notes bug fixes are good [TS]

  performance in prison that I get the [TS]

  feeling speaking of like dead platforms [TS]

  everything that people seem to think [TS]

  that there's nothing in the mac [TS]

  applications they use a date from day to [TS]

  day or the operating system itself that [TS]

  can get faster like well this is just [TS]

  how computers are and I just reject that [TS]

  notion entirely everything on my [TS]

  computer can and should be faster even [TS]

  just on the software side like ignoring [TS]

  that yes I think they should be faster [TS]

  cpu ram storage faster graphics card yes [TS]

  thats all continue to happen she would [TS]

  not apple can write yeah but just even [TS]

  within the same hardware there are [TS]

  things you can do to make this offer [TS]

  faster so many things can be done like [TS]

  that that poor guy c and Twitter who [TS]

  spends all day trying to make [TS]

  nsuserdefaults faster i love that guy [TS]

  just yes please do spend an entire year [TS]

  making nsuserdefaults faster please [TS]

  you should be you know if that's used by [TS]

  tons of applications and you make it [TS]

  just a little bit faster you'll save us [TS]

  all a lot of time my computer will be [TS]

  better so keep making things faster [TS]