0:00:00[Music]
0:00:04From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 66.
0:00:08Today's show is brought to you by lynda.com,
0:00:11TextExpander from Smile and igloo.
0:00:14My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Federico Vittigi.
0:00:17Hello Federico.
0:00:18Hello Myke.
0:00:19And Steven Hackett.
0:00:21Hey boys.
0:00:22So we are back after a very stressful week,
0:00:26at least for Federico.
0:00:27Yes.
0:00:28How are you feeling now?
0:00:29calm. We're gonna talk about your review in a little bit but you feeling good now?
0:00:32Yeah I'm feeling better I'm catching up still going through my email some new
0:00:37apps that I want to try but I feel like I'm almost caught up and then you know
0:00:41I'm super relaxed at the moment I spent a very relaxing weekend and I could just
0:00:47feel like the all the stress like wearing off going away that's good so
0:00:52I'm feeling I'm feeling pretty good Myke. Do you know who's not feeling very good?
0:00:58Um, audio users.
0:01:01Oh poor guys, poor guys.
0:01:03I wanted to put this in here just because music streaming services have been such a long running thing for us.
0:01:10And it was kind of like when Everpix shut down, you know, even though none of us were using audio at the time, which is probably the issue.
0:01:16But as we record this, yesterday, November 16th, the news broke that audio is shutting down.
0:01:22shutting down they've gone bankrupt and Pandora is buying their kind of key
0:01:26assets for 75 million dollars so audio is gone right and and in maybe not a mean
0:01:33way but Pandora is kind of just like picking the bones you know they just
0:01:37they've just gone in and bought up what's like what the assets that are left
0:01:41to help probably audio pay off its debts this was inevitable I think and it's
0:01:46kind of mean I feel like I kind of mean to say that but with Apple music
0:01:51it just kind of felt like
0:01:53Audio had no place anymore like even though they did things that were different into things in an interesting perspective
0:01:59But if you get another massive player it feels like some of the small players are gonna start to disappear. Titles next.
0:02:05Yeah, I guess I mean I used audio for many years after
0:02:11We all did right? We all did.
0:02:13Spotify was the service that got me into streaming services
0:02:18But after Spotify, so back in 2010, up until maybe 2013 even, I used RDO with a family account.
0:02:27I loved the design and the service got so many features and details right for me.
0:02:34Like the new releases section, and every Tuesday, back when it used to be New Music Tuesday.
0:02:40It was the perfect new release page that I wanted...
0:02:44And also to find out what was kind of good in your network of people. That was my favorite thing about
0:02:50audio, right? Like it helped me find music from like-minded individuals, so I was finding new stuff.
0:02:56I always really liked that about the service. It had real kind of good social stuff in it.
0:03:01Yeah, and you could sort by label. You know, it's a tiny little detail that other services don't have.
0:03:08And me and my girlfriend, we used a family account on audio for many years. She still says
0:03:14that audio had the best design and like the overall structure of all the services. And it
0:03:20kind of reminds me in a way of Everpix, you know, the parallel here is that they both had great
0:03:26designs loved by tech people, I would say. But eventually it died because it wasn't as popular
0:03:36with the masses maybe as other services like Spotify and Apple Music or, you know, Google Play
0:03:41music even. So it's a sad day for RDL lovers, but as you say, we kind of saw this coming,
0:03:50you know? It was inevitable at some point, it was the less differentiated of them all.
0:03:55Not in terms of little design details or specific features, but for the general public. There
0:04:02was no reason to use RDL instead of something like Spotify or Apple Music or Google.
0:04:07- Yeah.
0:04:07- Pouring one out for audio.
0:04:11- Yes, yes.
0:04:12- Man, I think it's another example where,
0:04:15like in so many industries,
0:04:16you can really only have two major players.
0:04:19I mean, we see that in operating systems a lot.
0:04:22But I mean, even like big, like photo services,
0:04:26all these things, like it just often feels
0:04:27like the third place guy gets squeezed out.
0:04:30And I mean, it is rough,
0:04:31and I'm sure a lot of people are affected by it,
0:04:34but I agree with you guys.
0:04:36I feel like if you didn't see this coming you were kind of not paying attention.
0:04:40Yep. I'm sure that they did too but there's only so much you can do right? You just keep fighting
0:04:45at it but at a certain point there's not really anything you can do other than kind of like cross
0:04:49your fingers and hope. It's a shame. Yep I agree. In lighter news I have an incredible image here
0:04:57sent via a tweet from Gabriel. Gabriel did an artist's rendition of Federico parading his iPad
0:05:04around his home attached to his pencil like a picket sign. It is incredible. I don't like to ask
0:05:14for things you know because I feel like it's a bit mean but Gabriel I would love a kind of a colored
0:05:22version of this because I can see that you started to ink it. I would love to see like a full finished
0:05:28colored version of this that would be that would make me very very happy. I would probably make a
0:05:33a sticker out of it.
0:05:35Can I just point out a little detail here in the picture?
0:05:38So on the iPad screen it says in Italian "Abbiamo Tastiere in Italiano".
0:05:45It's not perfect, so Gabriel, sorry, but I have to point this out.
0:05:50I guess what you wanted to say is "We want Italian keyboards", because right now it says
0:05:55"We have Italian keyboards".
0:05:59So maybe what you want to say is "voliamo tostier in Italiano" which would be "we want
0:06:05keyboards in Italian".
0:06:07It's such a small detail but it completely changes it.
0:06:10Yes, especially in relation to the review and my complaints about the Italian layouts.
0:06:14I guess what you wanted to say is "we want" instead of "we have" but it's such a great
0:06:20picture and I love how my hairstyle, the jacket, the shoes and the pillow for protection.
0:06:28Totally nailed it. It is excellent. It really really made me laugh when I saw it which is why I want more of it
0:06:35Gabriel if you are willing that would be amazing if you're not that is also okay. You did a fantastic job. We still love you
0:06:41Yes, we do. We do still love you indeed
0:06:43There's somebody in the in the chat room
0:06:46Suggested making it a fracture which is also a very very good idea
0:06:50Yeah, they're not a sponsor today, but it's also a very very good idea
0:06:53Now Federico, you have a very important topic that you'd like to share with us today.
0:06:58And I wanted to keep this as a prize for you guys because, you know, I like surprises.
0:07:03So, you know that I've been doing some very important field reporting on car sharing services in Italy.
0:07:11Yes.
0:07:11And I like to keep tabs on the car sharing scene in Italy with my friends. So let me tell you a little story.
0:07:18Last week,
0:07:20before, actually maybe about 10 days ago, it was before the iPad review, it was the
0:07:24Friday night before. I was out for dinner at a friend's house, I know because I remember
0:07:29I sent Steven a picture, and we were talking and my friends were like "do you want to go
0:07:35to the club later because we're going to the club?" and I was like "no, I don't want to
0:07:39go tonight, I gotta finish my review". They knew that I was writing my iPad article. And
0:07:46You know, I was dedicated to the cars, I needed to ride, but I asked them "Are you gonna take
0:07:51your car?"
0:07:52And I asked this because a few weeks before, a friend of mine, her car got broken into
0:07:58in front of the club, and by some people they stole a bunch of jackets and a wallet that
0:08:03was left in the car.
0:08:05So my friends, I knew they didn't want to take a car to the club anymore.
0:08:11And my friend replied, "Yeah, we're not gonna take my car, we're going with an Enjoy car."
0:08:16And I was like, "What's an Enjoy car?"
0:08:19So there's this service in Italy, it's called Enjoy, and it's a car sharing service with
0:08:26a particular twist.
0:08:29So you don't want to use your car, or maybe you don't have a car, and you have a smartphone,
0:08:35So you download this Enjoy app and you find, so you provide your location with Apple Maps
0:08:43and it finds these Fiat cars around you.
0:08:49They are red, Fiat, you know the Cinco Cento, the 500.
0:08:52Is that what they call it in Italy?
0:08:56The Cinco Cento?
0:08:57Yes!
0:08:58That is amazing.
0:08:59What do you call it?
0:09:00What, just the Fiat 500?
0:09:01No, no, the Cinco Cento.
0:09:02But I'd never considered that, right?
0:09:05it's not 500, that's stupid, but it just sounds way better when you say it.
0:09:09I think there's a bunch of Italians walking around going "that's the Fiat 500!" No, that's not what happened.
0:09:14No, no. So you got this bunch of Fiat, red Fiat's, and I saw these cars for many, many months before,
0:09:23I just never realized, I just thought it was some kind of advertising for, you know, there's people
0:09:27who put stickers on their cars for money, you know, like free publicity for companies that want to put
0:09:33stickers on people's cars and you get some money out of it. I thought it was just some
0:09:38kind of deal in Rome. Instead, it's a company, it's called Enjoy, and it's got this fleet
0:09:43of Fiat cars. You use a smartphone and you find a car around you. And it shows you all
0:09:53these little cars on a map, so it can be green if it's available, it can be yellow if it's
0:09:58busy, means it's taken by someone else, or it can be read if it's currently on the road.
0:10:04So what you do is you rent a car. So this car is parked somewhere. And you say, "I want
0:10:12to take this car." And you have 15 minutes to get to the car, by walking or any other
0:10:19means. You go to the car and those free 15 minutes you don't pay anything. When you're
0:10:27in front of the car from your smartphone you unlock the car with the app, you get into
0:10:33the car and you start paying a fee. It's like 10 cents or 15 cents a minute for driving.
0:10:41You drive, all the details are from the smartphone app, so your credit card information for payments,
0:10:48your personal details, so they got your first name, your last name, all your information.
0:10:53You unlock the car with the phone, you start driving, you can go only in a certain area
0:10:59in the map.
0:11:00So you cannot go from Rome to Viterbo, you can say drive for, I don't know, two or three
0:11:04blocks.
0:11:05When you're done, you just park the car, you leave it in a good condition, you get charged
0:11:09on your smartphone, you leave the keys inside, and the car automatically unlocks when you're
0:11:18out of the car, you leave the car there, and it's available for someone else to use.
0:11:23My friends told me they use this car sharing service all the time, where they need to go
0:11:28somewhere and they don't want to use their car. They just see if an Enjoy car is available
0:11:34from the phone. They walk to the car, they got 15 minutes. They get into the car, they unlock with
0:11:40the phone. The car is fully furnished inside, so you get a GPS navigator, you get a USB plug if you
0:11:48want to charge your smartphone. You cannot smoke in the car, of course, you got to leave it in a
0:11:52a good condition. And whenever they need to go to the club or maybe go somewhere, you
0:11:57know, in the morning, they don't want to use a scooter or maybe their own car, they just
0:12:02use an Enjoy car and they pay like a couple of euros to go to somewhere nearby. And it's
0:12:09super popular, they told me, and it's just like BlaBlaCar. I had no idea this existed.
0:12:16So I went to the website, I looked it up on Wikipedia. It's a car sharing service. Apparently
0:12:20it's available in Rome, in Milan, and in Florence, and in Turin, maybe.
0:12:24And yeah, I witnessed the process.
0:12:28So, we were at dinner, and when I was done, I was like, "I gotta see this."
0:12:32You know, "I gotta talk about this on the podcast." So, I walked to the
0:12:36car with my friend, and indeed, the car was parked
0:12:40like in a street, it was a very quiet street, and my friend
0:12:44went there with a smartphone from the iPhone, he
0:12:48the car, the car was like, "boop boop," and it unlocked.
0:12:51And it got into the car, and it was this red Fiat
0:12:55with a bunch of Enjoy stickers, and the keys were inside.
0:12:59It was basically super simple.
0:13:03And this is very popular, and I had no idea.
0:13:06And they were like, "Come on, you don't know the Enjoy cars?"
0:13:08I was like, "No."
0:13:10I have a car, I always use my car.
0:13:13But it's such a great idea, such a polished implementation.
0:13:16You know, it was flawless from the iPhone. I was super surprised.
0:13:20So I thought that you guys and our listeners would love to hear about this.
0:13:24It reminds me of a service called Zipcar, which is in the US and it's in the UK.
0:13:30And it's very similar, right? You can hire a car for a certain period of time.
0:13:34You just need to find them on the street. They have an app and the app unlocks the car.
0:13:40It's very similar in that regard.
0:13:43Yeah, so they went to the club, they left the car, they couldn't leave the car just in front of the club,
0:13:51there's like a parking area. But yeah, and afterwards they just took a taxi. But yeah, it's a good service.
0:13:59Well there we go, thank you so much for your reporting from the field on Italian car sharing services and their popularity.
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0:16:17So Federico, how did your review go?
0:16:20How was it received?
0:16:21Because obviously we recorded our episode just before you put your review up, so I'm
0:16:26interested in seeing how it went for you.
0:16:28It went very well, well beyond my expectations. A lot of people were happy that I got a review unit.
0:16:35And so I usually measure this kind of result with two metrics, feelings and analytics.
0:16:43The second one, very happy with the results. It's basically like what I get typically in a couple of weeks,
0:16:53maybe even three weeks, just in a couple of days, which was kind of crazy.
0:16:57Of course, I ended up in a bunch of round apps for iPad Pro reviews,
0:17:02so a lot of websites linking to my review, a lot of people on Twitter.
0:17:07So in terms of traffic, it's a really, really good one.
0:17:10Is it as big or bigger than some of the other things you've done,
0:17:13like your iOS reviews and stuff like that?
0:17:15I was bigger than the iOS 9 review.
0:17:17Okay. Bigger than an editorial?
0:17:20Oh yeah, of course.
0:17:21editorial, it's such a geeky app, you cannot hope to achieve that kind of exposure with
0:17:30the markdown text editor, Myke.
0:17:33It was just slightly bigger than my iOS 9 review, so I was really happy there.
0:17:39But in terms of feelings and reactions from people, it was way higher than the response
0:17:45to my iOS 9 review, just because the sheer effect of the surprise.
0:17:51some people were kind of expecting me to have an iPad Pro, especially
0:17:56after we posted the selfie from London, but a lot of people were generally happy
0:18:02that I was able to try it in advance, and especially the
0:18:06angle that I used for my review. So instead of comparing it to a MacBook like
0:18:10most of the other reviews did, I kind of took a very pragmatic approach, I think,
0:18:15to just use the iPad Pro for what I usually do on the iPad R2, and because I
0:18:20don't use a Mac, people were happy to see that I also did the same with the iPad Pro.
0:18:26So I talked about multitasking, I talked about iOS instead of saying "Yeah, you can do this
0:18:30on a Mac, you cannot do this on an iPad".
0:18:33So it was maybe kind of a unique perspective, and at least that's the reaction that I saw
0:18:39in people, and I'm happy.
0:18:41It was definitely worth all the stress and the fatigue and the crazy amount of hours
0:18:49spend writing and editing at night.
0:18:52So yeah, I'm happy, Myke.
0:18:54- Good, now both me and Steven have iPad Pros now.
0:18:58We both went out and bought them.
0:19:00We wanna talk about those a little bit today.
0:19:02But I wanted to start off talking about something
0:19:06that you wrote, Steven, a few days ago
0:19:08on the idea of there not being a flagship iPad Pro app
0:19:12from Apple.
0:19:13Do you wanna just summarize your feelings on this?
0:19:16- Yeah, I just sort of had the thought
0:19:19that in the past, at certain times,
0:19:21Apple has used software to sort of show off its hardware.
0:19:25So the original iPad had iWork.
0:19:27The next couple iPads,
0:19:29especially when they added the run-in display,
0:19:33got iLife apps, so iMovie and iPhoto,
0:19:36which of course is no more, 'cause it was terrible.
0:19:38And even going further back,
0:19:40they've done this sort of thing, right?
0:19:45IMAX got CD burners when iTunes could burn CDs,
0:19:48that sort of thing.
0:19:49And the iPad Pro, for all of its unique characteristics,
0:19:53which I think we talked about really well last week,
0:19:56there's not anything from Apple showing that off,
0:20:02and they've sort of just put it out there
0:20:06and are letting their party developers pick up that mantle.
0:20:11And I'm not sure that's the right approach
0:20:13for a device like this.
0:20:15So I've heard this criticism in a few different sources and one of the main
0:20:19things, and I think you called this one out as well, is that they should have
0:20:23made an app to demo the pencil. Like a sketching app or an art app of some
0:20:27description. So I've been thinking about this and I don't know if I agree
0:20:33that Apple should be making an app for art. Like the Notes app is a demo area
0:20:40for the pencil, right? From talking to people that have used them, Federico I'm
0:20:45sure that you agree, out of all of the apps that have pencil capability, Notes
0:20:49is the best, right? So the drawing area in Notes is kind of the place that you
0:20:54would demo this stuff. And I don't really think that Apple should be focusing
0:20:59their attention on creating any kind of art app because this isn't something
0:21:03that they do. I don't think that they would be able to do as good a job as some
0:21:08these other companies. So Apple gave early access to people to make stuff
0:21:12better than they would be able to make it. Now there is some question around the
0:21:16way that like the touch sensitivity is and the refresh rate and that sort of stuff
0:21:20like how responsive the pencil is but I'm sure some of that could be cleaned
0:21:23up. But I don't know if I agree that they need to make an artistic app. I do
0:21:28believe that they should have made a pro app of some description for the iPad but
0:21:33in a field that they already have a foothold in, so like say they brought logic or Final Cut or like
0:21:39a version of that to the iPad, I think that would have made more sense to me. I agree that there
0:21:44should have been something, but I don't think that an art app is the one, even though they introduced
0:21:48the pencil. Because like artists and graphic designers, I'm sure that they want apps from
0:21:55the companies that they know, use and trust, like Adobe, and are maybe not as interested in
0:22:00an Apple one when they haven't really got any chops in this area?
0:22:04Yeah, I mean, I see that. I see what you're saying. I think maybe the examples we disagree on,
0:22:13but I think we fundamentally agree that they should have done something with it, as opposed
0:22:18to just sort of like, "Hey, it's out there." And, you know, Apple's always really good at having
0:22:24their parties on stage to show off what they could do, including the little guys who had the race
0:22:28cars a couple years ago that I can't ever stop thinking about. But Myke, you and I were
0:22:36like in the hotel room watching the keynote and WWDC were like, "What was going on?"
0:22:40- Yeah, it was a real kind of mood killer. It was like the first thing, wasn't it?
0:22:44- Oh yeah, I was like, "Well, I guess I'm gonna go get a sandwich because I just don't
0:22:48care about WWDC anymore." But yeah, I mean--
0:22:51- "Get to San Francisco for this?"
0:22:54Yeah. That's so bad. If you're listening, we're really sorry. We're picking on your
0:22:58company. Sort of. And they do that, right? And they give access to certain developers,
0:23:07you know, Adobe, Microsoft, the lady who was cutting open that poor person's kneecap. There's
0:23:15that advanced stuff, right? And they can show that off, and there's stuff on day one that
0:23:20takes advantage of the iPad Pro's unique capabilities.
0:23:23But I just, it feels sort of weird,
0:23:27especially in today's environment,
0:23:28which we're gonna get to,
0:23:30just to put it out there without having a big,
0:23:33like, this is what this thing can do.
0:23:35Maybe it's, maybe it's, you know, pencil driven,
0:23:39maybe it's not, maybe it's just like,
0:23:40look how powerful this thing is.
0:23:42And someone emailed me saying that iMovie was kind of that,
0:23:46'cause iMovie got a big update,
0:23:47and it can do like three streams of 4K video.
0:23:50According to the notes, I don't have any interest in that,
0:23:53so I haven't really played with it.
0:23:54But if that's the flagship, they would push it.
0:23:59I don't think that's what they're,
0:24:00I think I maybe just got an update.
0:24:02But I don't know, it's interesting.
0:24:06It's not a mood killer, it's not going to destroy
0:24:09the iPad Pro's sales or anything.
0:24:11I think there's some other things that might be doing that.
0:24:13But at the end of the day, this is not a huge deal
0:24:17I just find it sort of curious that they didn't do something.
0:24:20Yeah, I wonder if maybe, I totally agree with Stephen.
0:24:23It would have been great to see Apple making their own
0:24:26Pro app for the iPad Pro.
0:24:27Especially, you know, kind of to set an example,
0:24:29like they did with the original iWork for the iPad.
0:24:33I wonder if maybe the reason is they want to wait for iOS
0:24:39to kind of stabilize on the iPad Pro
0:24:41to maybe ship a couple of updates
0:24:43before doing their own Pro app.
0:24:45And this is no excuse for not having a Pro app on the iPad Pro, but maybe I'm just trying to understand why this is the case.
0:24:54And maybe waiting for iOS 9.2, maybe iOS 9.3, to have a bunch of additions to make the software keyboard a little better,
0:25:04maybe improve external keyboard support, maybe even have international keyboards for, you know, the smart keyboard for more types of users,
0:25:12before releasing a Pro app on the App Store to the general public.
0:25:16I wonder if maybe they're just waiting for the iPad Pro ecosystem to be more international, more global, more stable.
0:25:24I don't know. I would love to see Final Cut, Logic.
0:25:28I don't know if Apple wants to make new types of Pro apps, like from the ground up.
0:25:34The Pro apps that they have is Logic and Final Cut on the Mac, unless I'm missing something.
0:25:40Maybe they should make Ayad producer, I don't know.
0:25:45But still.
0:25:46It's got a pro in it, you know.
0:25:48There's no pro, so I don't know, maybe we'll have to wait for next year.
0:25:52My fingers, as I said on my stories, my fingers are crossed for Xcode on the iPad Pro.
0:25:57And next WWDC, it'll be fun to see what they do.
0:26:01Because you know, WWDC is the audience for pro users, and maybe that's the perfect stage
0:26:09to see here's what we've been doing on the iPad Pro is what we want to do for
0:26:13Pro users on iOS. We'll see. So the other part of this conversation is whether Pro
0:26:20apps can actually exist on iOS and if the App Store as it is currently is even
0:26:26built to support them. So like for example the Mac App Store has logic in
0:26:32it right and it's like what is it $250 or something like that? It's along those
0:26:38lines. It's like 200 bucks. Yeah, so it's a high price. Now, how would
0:26:44people react to see a $200 app on the iOS App Store? Like, does that fit? Well,
0:26:52how would pro people react? My mom is not gonna buy Logic for the iPad,
0:26:57but what if you're a pro and you want to use an iPad for that kind of
0:27:03stuff on the go and maybe that's no problem for you. I think it will actually set a good
0:27:09example for the App Store to say we have casual apps, we have free apps, we have games, we
0:27:15have apps at $2, but it's also possible to make apps at $50, $100 maybe. And if the Omni
0:27:22Group can do it, I don't see why Apple cannot do it, honestly.
0:27:26Yeah, that is a really good point.
0:27:29And I think Apple has to be the one to do it at this point. I mean, we've talked about
0:27:32the race to the bottom a lot. And say that you're just a developer who's going to build
0:27:39an audio editor, and there's some out there, Jason Snell used one to edit the incomparable
0:27:44this week where you guys talked about it on upgrade. And that app is like, what, like
0:27:4815 bucks or something? It's crazy cheap for what it is. I would imagine that developer
0:27:54feels like they can't charge more, and that if something is really expensive, someone's
0:28:01going to find something that is almost all the same things for less money
0:28:04anyways. You know on the Mac we have this legacy of software being expensive and
0:28:09software like coming before you guys were born coming in boxes you have to go
0:28:13to the store and get it. And that legacy is still around on the Mac and you see
0:28:19it in the Mac App Store you see it outside the Mac App Store. But iOS
0:28:23doesn't have that and so the the norm is something something cheaper. I think the
0:28:28only way to help correct that is for Apple to do it. I don't think third party developers
0:28:33can go out and say, "Hey, I made an audio editor and it's going to be $100 for your
0:28:39iPad." Even if they did, the App Store has some structural issues that can't target the
0:28:45iPad Pro. You actually can't target hardware hardly at all when you release an app through
0:28:51iTunes Connect. It runs on the iPad. You always see this in games, right? You go to download
0:28:57a game and capital letters are like, "We do not support the iPad 2." It's like, well,
0:29:02you can't really say that. What you're saying is your game doesn't work well on it and you're
0:29:05sort of advising people not to download it if they have that device. And I think Apple's
0:29:09got to fix that structural stuff too, or the whole conversation is sort of a moot point.
0:29:15The idea of being able to target devices I think is one of the real key things. I know
0:29:19people talk about upgrade pricing a lot, but I think, this is harsh, but I think people
0:29:24need to get over that, that's never happening. It's just never gonna
0:29:27happen. Even on an infinite timescale I would say that they're just not gonna do
0:29:32that. But the idea of targeting devices seems like a possible thing, especially
0:29:36if they're now starting to bring iOS devices into the fold like the iPad
0:29:42Pro that can do things that other devices cannot do.
0:29:48If you have an app that really needs the pencil, no
0:29:52other iPad can even understand that it exists. And the screen size as well.
0:29:57I really feel like the iPad Pro is the device in which developers should
0:30:03be able to say "I am making an app for that device" but they can't do that.
0:30:09Let me make a point here. Actually two points. The first one is I believe
0:30:15the app store should get better at understanding system requirements
0:30:19and it should be more like Steam or any other serious game store, where it shows you, like,
0:30:24it's not up to the developers to, you know, fill a description page with a bunch of plain text
0:30:30to explain the kind of hardware that you need. It's clearly shown in a text specification section
0:30:36that tells you you need this iPad and, you know, you cannot install on this iPad, you need these
0:30:40features, you need these accessories. That should be better. But I also want to briefly talk about
0:30:45developers because a common mistake that some developers do is believing that
0:30:53their apps could be sold to millions of people where instead they should accept
0:31:01the fact and leverage the fact that they're making apps for a tiny portion
0:31:07of iOS users. That doesn't mean it's not profitable. So let me give you an example.
0:31:11For example, if you make a markdown app or a very specific GTD app, that kind of app
0:31:20is targeted at a very specific audience.
0:31:24If you price it at $2, because maybe you say if I price this app at $2, maybe I can attract
0:31:31more customers.
0:31:33But the people who don't need your app, who don't need a Python interpreter or a markdown
0:31:38app or a crazy automation app. They're not going to be buying your app anyway. Even if
0:31:44it's $1, $2, it's always going to be too expensive. And I see developers making this mistake over
0:31:51and over. The people who need your app accept the fact that it's a tiny audience, that it's
0:31:57not the same audience of Clash of Clans or Angry Birds or Minecraft. It's a different
0:32:02audience. But those people are willing to give you money, and a lot of money, if they
0:32:06really need your app. So there's this common mistake is pricing the app for
0:32:11the idealistic market of the App Store instead of using price points and
0:32:17making apps more expensive because the kind of audience that
0:32:21you're after is gonna give you money anyway and it's gonna support you
0:32:24through the years and it's gonna give you a lot of money when you compare that
0:32:28to a free app or a free game. And when it comes to pro apps, I
0:32:34I think the Omni group is not alone in setting a great example.
0:32:38There's apps for lawyers, apps for doctors, apps for technicians of any kind, apps for engineers.
0:32:45And these apps on the App Store, you can find them today.
0:32:48I'm not dreaming about these apps. They exist.
0:32:51And they are priced at $50, $90.
0:32:55It's very expensive compared to free apps or $2 apps.
0:32:59But those developers not only accept the fact that they have a different audience,
0:33:04they also price their apps accordingly.
0:33:06And so if you say, "I want to make this crazy Photoshop replacement for the iPad,
0:33:12but it's not going to give me a lot of money if I sell you $2 because the App Store system is broken."
0:33:19We could argue that Apple should provide better tools on the App Store for developers,
0:33:24and that's a different discussion.
0:33:26But as a developer and as a marketing person, because you also gotta be that, you gotta understand your audience
0:33:32and you gotta understand the kind of people that I'm building apps for.
0:33:36Are those people willing to give me this kind of money?
0:33:40Because basically you're leaving money on the table if you try to price your crazy productivity app, your pro app,
0:33:46your very advanced app at $2 just because all the other apps on the App Store are priced at $2.
0:33:54I feel like Apple should do something and we could argue about that.
0:34:00But also developers often just make apps and price them according to what the 90% of the market says,
0:34:08instead of doing maybe a little more research and understanding maybe we should actually increase the price
0:34:14and we should cater to this kind of audience because that wouldn't be a problem and we would actually make more money.
0:34:21I don't disagree with that sentiment, like about knowing your customer base and kind
0:34:26of moving on it from there.
0:34:28But it's difficult, you know, it is an issue when you feel like the environment that you're
0:34:36in doesn't support you, right?
0:34:38And that the platform that you're working for doesn't care about you.
0:34:42Like there is an element of that I think which scares away some developers from wanting to
0:34:46go down this route.
0:34:48Sure.
0:34:49Because if they don't believe that the people in the store that they're going into, the market that they're going into, will care,
0:34:55it makes the idea of building a product that is for a specific market, it makes it quite a daunting thing when you're creating something for months and months and months
0:35:06that potentially nobody will buy because you're not confident that they're going to buy it.
0:35:10Well, I guess the comparison here is, do you want to be the next Justin Bieber?
0:35:17Or do you want to be the indie artist who plays at smaller venues but still makes money
0:35:21because that kind of audience is willing to pay for you and to support you?
0:35:27Developers of productivity apps, pro apps, need to accept the fact that those apps are
0:35:32not going to be used by millions of people.
0:35:35And this is even a personal struggle of mine.
0:35:39When I write my stories, I want to have 50 million page views per month.
0:35:43I'm not going to have those page views, because the kind of content that I write and the kind
0:35:48of people that I attract, I'm not going to...
0:35:51There's just so many people who are interested in the kind of opinion and maybe writing that
0:35:55I do.
0:35:56So in theory, I would love to have crazy page views, the same page views of The Verge or
0:36:03whatever other big site you have in mind.
0:36:06But I'm not going to be able to do that.
0:36:08and that's just an utopia. It's just not going to happen because there's just so many people
0:36:14in the world who are interested in supporting you for the kind of niche specific content
0:36:20that you write or niche specific app that you make. So everyone loves fame and popularity
0:36:28and millions of units of anything, whether it's millions of people, millions of fans
0:36:33and millions of money. But it's just not gonna happen every time. Because, you know,
0:36:38pop content is not the same as specific content, and pop apps are not the same as pro apps. And
0:36:46sure, the environment could be a little more welcoming, and that's why I think Apple should
0:36:51maybe do a little more. Improve analytics, improve, you know, the tools that developers
0:36:55are given to manage reviews on the App Store. There's improved test flight, improved developer
0:37:00tools. But also on the developer side, please, and I say this to developers every time, try
0:37:06to understand your audience first. Don't try to say, "I made this cool text editor. Why
0:37:12it's not becoming the next Angry Birds?" Well, there's a reason. And the reason is people
0:37:18are just not going to use your app because there are just so many people who need that
0:37:21kind of app.
0:37:24If anybody understands the idea of creating niche content for smaller markets, it's us
0:37:29as well, right? Like this is what we do every single day. We don't really target
0:37:35the general public with our content. We make stuff that is more niche. And I
0:37:41understand that, and it's kind of the same as you Federico, but I think that
0:37:45podcasters and writers work in an ecosystem that supports them better than
0:37:50maybe Apple's ecosystem supports indie developers who want to make something a
0:37:54little bit more niche. Let's say for example with podcasts there are a bunch
0:37:58of apps which have huge audiences that promote what we do. I mean even Apple
0:38:03does a really good job of promoting our stuff, right, which is really niche stuff.
0:38:08And it's the same for like for writers. There are a bit like the bigger sites
0:38:13like The Verge for example, there is a potential that they would link to
0:38:17you. That is not out of the question. And also you know there are RSS apps and
0:38:22stuff like that which are built to kind of make getting your content really easy
0:38:25because the ecosystems that we're both in maybe support independence on a more
0:38:30level playing field in some instances. And of course there is some, you know,
0:38:36there are changing biases like iTunes these days really does promote the NPR
0:38:40and the story driven podcasts more than the stuff that we do, but we do still get
0:38:46level footing in some instances for some of the people. Like there is more of a
0:38:49support there. So I think that I agree with you on the sentiment of, you know,
0:38:54making niche stuff but I think that maybe our views are a little bit tainted by the
0:38:58fact that the audience's new ecosystems are maybe a bit larger for us than they are for
0:39:04people that are trying to build these applications.
0:39:07True, and I totally believe Apple should do a little more, maybe evangelism or maybe even
0:39:12marketing, like why is there no App Store apps Twitter account? Like there's one for
0:39:18App Store games and there's a general App Store one that tweets about the front page
0:39:23stuff basically. But there should be a Twitter account for people who work on iOS and people
0:39:28who buy productivity and utilities on the app store. And Apple should totally do a little
0:39:33more and maybe even curate a little better and maybe put the spotlight on developers
0:39:39who make these kind of tools. Maybe reach out, we don't know if this happened, but maybe
0:39:43reach out to developers like the Sketch guys. They don't want to make an iPad version. Why
0:39:48Why is there no iPad version?
0:39:51Apple, whatever is in their power, they should try to do developer evangelism and to reach
0:39:58out and to provide tools to make it better for developers.
0:40:01But I honestly believe that at least 50% of the problem is on the developer's shoulder.
0:40:10You gotta understand your audience.
0:40:11the other side Apple should do better, should provide more tools and maybe more
0:40:19publicity for these kind of apps. But also I don't believe the system is
0:40:26inherently broken. That's my, at least what I feel.
0:40:30Before we move on from this, if this type of discussion and content interests you
0:40:35you should listen to the Release Notes podcast because this is what they talk
0:40:38about every week so I'll put a link to those guys in the show notes as well. We
0:40:43still have a bunch of other things that we want to talk about in regards to the
0:40:45iPad Pro. Currently me and Steven have not even given our thoughts on the
0:40:48device. So but before we do that let me take a second break this week to thank
0:40:52TextExpander from Smile for sponsoring this week's episode. This is you know
0:40:57we're talking about like Pro apps and niche markets that are awesome. This is one
0:41:00of them right? TextExpander is one of these types of apps that exists and it
0:41:06is awesome and people love it and it's built like a real kind of following
0:41:10around it and it's an example of the type of app that can work and succeed
0:41:14right because people love it so much that they talk about it. So like they
0:41:18live in a world where maybe it's more difficult right for them to get
0:41:23traction because what they do is quite a nerdy thing but the people that have it
0:41:26love it so much that they want to talk about it all the time. So let me explain
0:41:29to you what TextExpander is if you don't know. It is an app, it is a little app
0:41:34that's on your Mac and iOS as well. If you ever type the same sentences, phrases or even
0:41:38words on a regular basis, then TextExpander is something you need and it's definitely
0:41:42going to help you out. It will save you time and effort by expanding short abbreviations
0:41:46into frequently used text and even pictures. TextExpander will help you improve your communication
0:41:52on a daily basis. For example, say you send out a bunch of emails all the time that tend
0:41:57to be quite similar in nature. You can increase the consistency of your email responses by
0:42:01by creating form messages and snippets for common stuff.
0:42:05So you have the ability to customize stock replies.
0:42:07You can create a stock reply,
0:42:09but you can also add in kind of drop down
0:42:11and fill in fields so you can put in people's names,
0:42:13you can select from different options.
0:42:15So it makes it really simple and really fast
0:42:17to send out standardized emails,
0:42:19but also providing a human touch
0:42:20with these fill in sections as well.
0:42:22You could maybe create a snippet
0:42:23for the meeting notes template that you have, right?
0:42:25So you go into a meeting and you set up a template
0:42:27in a Word document or something like that, or a text file.
0:42:31You can do this so nothing gets left out. You can set up a snippet for these notes so that you always
0:42:35make sure that you're following the same format. Or you could even use a snippet when requesting
0:42:39a reference from someone if you hire people for your job. So you can just make it super easy
0:42:44to get stuff that might take a little while to write out if you were just typing them
0:42:48without TextExpander. And with a new look and feel TextExpander 5 is here to help you type even
0:42:52faster than ever before by making suggestions of frequently typed phrases to abbreviate and save
0:42:58TextExpander can remind you of missed opportunities to use your abbreviations whilst you're typing.
0:43:03You can also sync your snippets amongst multiple devices by storing them on iCloud Drive or
0:43:08Dropbox.
0:43:09This means you can access them wherever you want, even on TextExpander's iOS app.
0:43:14Smile have made a great iOS app for TextExpander.
0:43:16You can use your snippets in a bunch of other apps that have integrated them, or you can
0:43:20use their iOS custom keyboard that comes with TextExpander for iOS, allowing you to use
0:43:26your snippets in absolutely any app. Texas Band of 5 for the Mac costs $44.95 US. Upgrades
0:43:32are available for $19.95 for existing users and it's free to those who purchased on or
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0:43:46Please note that Texas Band of 5 requires Yosemite and is ready for El Capitan and Texas
0:43:50Band of iOS is available in the App Store for iPhone and iPad.
0:43:55So there's this Tim Cook unleashed Europe thing going on right now?
0:43:59Yeah, he's taking a real tour right now of everywhere, just talking smack in every different
0:44:03country in Europe.
0:44:05Basically.
0:44:06So there's an article over on TechCrunch that I'm going to link to where he talks about
0:44:13the Mac and iPad.
0:44:14And of course, it's an interesting time for two-in-one devices.
0:44:19Surface Pro 4 is out, the Surface Book, also for Microsoft is out, where it's a
0:44:24laptop and then you do some magic and it's a tablet. And of course Microsoft
0:44:28with Windows is more or less one OS everywhere, where on the Mac you of course
0:44:35have OS X and iOS being sort of separate things. And the iPad Pro begins to merge
0:44:40those things a little bit, that it comes with the keyboard and it comes with some
0:44:45multitasking, not true windowing, but the ability to do more than one thing at
0:44:49once which has defined iOS for a long time. And so there's a course
0:44:53hand-wringing for people saying is Apple going to merge the MacBook and the iPad.
0:44:59And Tim Cook says no. He says that they want to make the best tablet and the
0:45:05best notebook in the world and that they can't do that in the same device which
0:45:09which I agree with I think the Surface Book and the Surface Pro 4 and all these
0:45:13other things as beautiful as they may be have compromises. But there is this stress right
0:45:20now from my people of the Mac that the iPad is coming in and the iPad is going to come
0:45:30take our MacBooks away. And Cook is saying that that's not the vision they have. But
0:45:38I think two things are important to think about in that conversation, then we can move
0:45:42on. The first one is that Apple is not afraid of cannibalizing their own products. They
0:45:48have said that repeatedly. I think a very famous example was the iPhone, where all of
0:45:54a sudden, the iPod, which was even more than the Mac, a huge drive for Apple's resurgence
0:46:01in the 2000s. The iPhone comes out, and then the iPod sales just dry up, right? People
0:46:10we're asking about that and Apple's response is,
0:46:12well look, people are buying iPhones
0:46:14and the iPhone is the best iPod ever,
0:46:17so we're fine with that.
0:46:18We're fine with cannibalizing our own sales.
0:46:20And I think in these conversations,
0:46:23the sentence always is,
0:46:25can the iPad Pro replace my MacBook?
0:46:27And if it does, then Apple's fine with that
0:46:31because they're still selling you an Apple product.
0:46:33And if your iPad replaces your Lenovo,
0:46:36then that's even better
0:46:37because you weren't an Apple customer and now you are.
0:46:39And so from Apple's perspective,
0:46:41I think it makes sense to keep them separate.
0:46:43And I think that the stress between the Mac and the iPad,
0:46:48that's not as big of a deal to Apple's sales
0:46:51as it may seem to some of us who feel
0:46:54a little more emotionally involved about it.
0:46:56But there is that tension, right?
0:47:00There's people like Federico who already,
0:47:02you already do your work on an iPad, which is awesome.
0:47:05And then there's people like me who,
0:47:07I could do a lot of work on my iPad,
0:47:09but there's still some stuff that I have to do on my Mac.
0:47:11And I wrote a little bit about that the other day
0:47:13in a post on 512.
0:47:15And then there's people behind us who are younger,
0:47:18people like, you know, even as young as my kids
0:47:20who really only ever use an iPad,
0:47:23and that's just gonna be what they grew up on.
0:47:26And there will still be Macs around,
0:47:28but the landscape may be different.
0:47:31And so I feel like why all this is in the news
0:47:34and why so many people are just setting themselves
0:47:36on fire over it is that there's this stress, right?
0:47:38there's a stress, there's this tipping point of like,
0:47:40what does the iPad Pro mean for the Mac?
0:47:43And I think that the simple answer is we don't know yet.
0:47:45And yes, there are gonna be more people
0:47:48who can use an iPad than ever for their jobs,
0:47:50but mostly because of the software stuff
0:47:53and stuff we've been talking about,
0:47:54the iPad can't do what I need it to do for my job.
0:47:57So for me, the iPad Pro is a really interesting device
0:47:59and I have many thoughts about it,
0:48:01but it doesn't really change the equation yet.
0:48:04And I think that's gonna be a shift over time,
0:48:07I think the iPad Pro is sort of like one more step in that direction of, hey, if you want
0:48:12to do your job on a tablet, that's great, you can do it, here's a really good one to
0:48:16do it on, but that doesn't mean that the Mac is going away or going to die or anything
0:48:19like that.
0:48:21So you're not saying that we should build a wall around the iPad, otherwise it's going
0:48:26to take our MacBooks away.
0:48:27Wow, I'm just going to let that comment just go right by.
0:48:32- No, I don't because,
0:48:33Myke is just dying.
0:48:38Because the reality is that people will always need
0:48:43different types of tools to get their job done, right?
0:48:46Like people like us who make things for a living
0:48:48and Federico, you and I especially as people
0:48:51who do a lot of writing, it's a very different skill set
0:48:55than someone who is doing like computational analysis
0:48:58on the human genome.
0:49:00Like those people are always gonna need computers, right?
0:49:02Like they're gonna need super computers,
0:49:03they're going to need as much hardware as they can buy.
0:49:06And it's just a gradient of what people need.
0:49:09And so what if the gradient changes a little bit over time?
0:49:13I think it should, you know.
0:49:14If you looked at Federico Secchi, for example,
0:49:17as someone who is a writer and an editor for a living,
0:49:2030 years ago, you would've been doing all of that
0:49:23on a typewriter or some very basic word processor.
0:49:26And the idea that you're gonna do all of your work
0:49:30on a computer one day probably seemed crazy.
0:49:32And now it has sped all the way through
0:49:36the personal computer revolution,
0:49:37through everyone has a PC to now you're doing it on tablet,
0:49:40which is even more futuristic
0:49:43than a computer was 30 years ago.
0:49:45I think all that is is a shift.
0:49:47I think everybody can still buy the machine
0:49:50they wanna buy in 10 years.
0:49:51If I still wanna use a Mac or still have to use a Mac,
0:49:53I'm gonna be able to do that.
0:49:55And I don't think it's worth going crazy over,
0:49:59because the iPod Pro doesn't really solve
0:50:00a lot of those problems yet.
0:50:01And even if it does, like who cares?
0:50:03They're still gonna sell Macs.
0:50:04They're not, this idea that the MacBook
0:50:08is going to go away in three years,
0:50:10or five years, is just really crazy to me.
0:50:13- And I guess there's, you could say,
0:50:16a lot of people are kind of afraid that the Mac
0:50:19is gonna end up like the iPod Classic.
0:50:22that it did a very...
0:50:23it solved a very specific job and now that's done by the iPhone
0:50:28and you could argue that
0:50:29you know most people are fine with music on the iPhone but there's people like
0:50:32Steven who need an iPod Classic because they like the old school way
0:50:37of listening to music
0:50:38and...
0:50:39To be fair they did stop selling that.
0:50:41Yes, but I believe there's a fundamental difference in that
0:50:45Apple gives more importance to the Mac ecosystem than to the iPod Classic and
0:50:50that you cannot compare a music player to a whole desktop operating system.
0:50:56And what's crazy to me, I agree with you, Steven, what I believe is we'll be fine.
0:51:03And what's crazy to me is that I see people saying that the iPad is only good for writing
0:51:11reviews of the iPad.
0:51:12And that's crazy because you just need to look around you and you see doctors using
0:51:17iPads.
0:51:18I once talked to a person who managed a vineyard, so they make wine and they only use iPads on the field,
0:51:29they use iPads for the accounting system. Just look around you, you can see people using iPads as computers,
0:51:36just like you can see people using Macs as computers. They are both computers.
0:51:41At least some of us are so stuck on the vocabulary notion of what a computer is that we're missing
0:51:51the practical implementation of the computer, which is a tool that lets us do work, that
0:51:58lets us play, and that lets us be entertained and stay in touch with others.
0:52:02So it's not as much as what the computer is, it's what the computer does.
0:52:07And so if for you, Steven, the computer is, you know, the Mac at your desk with the keyboard
0:52:12and with a bunch of hard drives and with the relatives in the attic, you know, the old
0:52:17computers, that's fine. Maybe the computer for me is the iPad and maybe for some kid
0:52:22in China, the computer they use is the iPhone because they only, you know, they use line
0:52:27and they do all their shopping and entertainment online. And you know what? We're fine. And
0:52:32And everyone's fine. And I don't believe... We could argue about the design of the software
0:52:38and the APIs and all the technical differences between them. But arguing what a computer
0:52:46is today, it's just crazy. It's just... What if I go to somebody and say, "You're driving
0:52:54a car, but your car is not really a car. The only car is the original Ford from 100 years
0:53:00go. It's not about the definition of a computer, it's about the utility of the computer. And
0:53:06computer is everything. It's a smartphone, it's an iPad, it's a Mac. And I honestly don't
0:53:12understand the fixation with defining what people should do and how they should do it.
0:53:17Right. And I want to come back in an episode and talk more about the idea of one OS versus
0:53:24multiple OS's. You know there's, even in the chatroom right now, the idea that, you know,
0:53:31if Microsoft is successful with the...
0:53:35Windows 10?
0:53:36Yeah, yeah, all in one OS, Windows 10 type thing, like does that put pressure on Apple
0:53:41to do that? And then there's even talk on the Apple side of like, well maybe the iPad
0:53:45should have its own variant of iOS, which is also crazy. I think that's not a big deal
0:53:52because people who buy these products,
0:53:54like the consumers who are gonna buy an iPad
0:53:57or buy a MacBook and do their job on it,
0:53:59then they don't care.
0:54:02Like as long as they can do their work
0:54:04and it's fast and it's easy and it's secure
0:54:07and it's affordable,
0:54:09like consumers don't care about
0:54:12what stack your software's built on.
0:54:14They just don't.
0:54:15And yes, it may make developers' lives harder or easier,
0:54:19but if the history of the App Store has taught us anything,
0:54:23it's that developers will, they'll adapt.
0:54:27And there's maybe software that we're not getting now
0:54:31because the App Store is what it is,
0:54:33but there's still really good software being made
0:54:35for the iPad and for the iPhone and for the Mac.
0:54:38And so, I don't know, I agree with you Federico.
0:54:40Like it's all sort of like,
0:54:42it's interesting to talk about intellectually,
0:54:45and even as someone who is, you and I aren't,
0:54:48if this were like a battlefield, which it is not.
0:54:51Like you and I sort of have different stances on this
0:54:54because of the way that we work.
0:54:55But the reality is, like you said,
0:54:57it doesn't really matter
0:54:58because these products aren't going away.
0:55:02And as long as you get your job done
0:55:04and you can meet those requirements I just laid out,
0:55:06then like, what does it really matter?
0:55:08- And you know what I learned this week is
0:55:11because I got some, you know,
0:55:15I wouldn't say criticism or negative comments, just very strong, diverging opinions.
0:55:22But what I learned is a person's simplicity is someone else's masochism.
0:55:29And for me, the iPad is the essence of getting work done in a simple way.
0:55:36And to someone else, that may appear as this guy is going through all these problems and
0:55:42apps and workflows, this guy's crazy, he's a masochist. But it only depends on your perspective
0:55:49and for me I could say, you know, masochism pays the rent. And, you know, again, we're just fine,
0:55:58everyone does work in their own way. What we need to discuss is, I feel like, what we can do to
0:56:08empower more people? How can we change the iOS APIs to create new kinds of apps?
0:56:14Those are the problems. Let's not argue about what I do or what Steven does or
0:56:19Myke does. That's not the matter. The matter is looking ahead, you know, ten
0:56:24years from now, what kind of mobile software, what kind of desktop software
0:56:28do we want to make? And let's make that happen, you know? That's what I continue
0:56:32to think about every day. And that's, for me, the core of the story here.
0:56:38What can we do to do better? Not who's right and who's wrong right now.
0:56:44Let's talk about this thing. So I want to talk about one thing with the
0:56:52hardware that's been rattling around in my brain. I watched a video when the
0:56:56Surface came out. Satya Nadella was talking to Neil I Patel and they were in
0:57:01a store and they were talking about the Surface Book and they were talking about
0:57:04the Surface Pro 4 and when they were talking about the Surface Pro 4, Satya
0:57:10kept referring to it as a digital clipboard. He kept saying digital
0:57:15clipboard, digital clipboard and I thought that's such a weird thing why you
0:57:19keep saying that? Like that sounds so strange but that's how the iPad Pro
0:57:25feels to me because it is this weirdly massive thing which I can't explain it
0:57:32but feels way bigger in portrait like so like you know if you think that it's
0:57:37just scaled up right which is effectively what it done and taken the
0:57:40ten inch and just like dragged it like diagonally right stretched it out the
0:57:44difference for the portrait for me feels way bigger than the difference in
0:57:48landscape do either of you feel that way like I hold it in portrait and I'm like
0:57:52oh my god this thing is massive and hold it in landscape and don't feel that way
0:57:55I have that exact thought especially looking at apps that are content heavy
0:57:59You know, it's I mean the home screen looks silly either way, but if you open like slack or
0:58:05Safari as in portrait is just like holy cow this thing. I'm like holding a billboard. Yeah
0:58:12It's very peculiar. I mean, I want to just say for out up top that I love it so much. Oh
0:58:18Yeah. Yeah. I love I love this iPad. I love it dearly
0:58:22Because it is the best it is also the best iPad for content consumption
0:58:29consumption.
0:58:30Oh yes, there we go.
0:58:33It is both the iPad Pro and the iPad Con.
0:58:36I like that joke very much.
0:58:38I don't think anybody else does but I think it's very clever.
0:58:42It really is though because they built that.
0:58:44They put incredible speakers in it.
0:58:47My MacBook Pro is just sitting there now closed.
0:58:51We watch all of our videos and stuff on this thing now because also it takes up less space
0:58:57to watch the videos.
0:58:58Yeah, the koala is gonna be upset.
0:59:01Well, the koala can go hard up a tree.
0:59:05So for example, sometimes we eat dinner downstairs on the coffee table, and if we have a meal
0:59:11which requires multiple plates, let's say we've made a Mexican dish or something, the
0:59:17table is mainly covered in bowls and plates.
0:59:20So when we do that, I have to find a HDMI cable, grab my laptop, plug my HDMI cable
0:59:25into the TV and watch it on the TV.
0:59:27This is crazy right? I know this is gonna kill people that we sit in a room with a TV
0:59:31right in front of us but still watch stuff on the MacBook or the iPad in front of the
0:59:35TV. But it's just how we are. Everyone needs to just get over it. But now the iPad takes
0:59:41up less space to put down. I got a smart cover for it because it's the only accessory in
0:59:46this country and it takes up way less space on the desk because they haven't got the keyboard
0:59:52in the way. So it's great for that stuff. I love multitasking, right? All the space
0:59:59for all the apps. And I just love that this thing is so large and I'm able to
1:00:05just see all my stuff there. And it feels like a kind of futuristic two-handed
1:00:12desk of some description. It's like the original Surface, right? I really, really
1:00:18do love this I love this so much that I've started to put stickers on it yes
1:00:22there are stickers on the back I'm currently in that awkward phase where
1:00:26like there aren't enough right so like currently it's it's maybe like a third
1:00:30covered in like specific areas it's like when you're starting to get a beard yes
1:00:35exactly it's patchy right now it's going for a change right but he'll be okay on
1:00:40the other side so but I'm messing that I have a Vittici seal of quality on there
1:00:45figured it was the right sticker for this thing. So I'm starting to just put it on there.
1:00:50Do you know why I'm doing this? Because I love this thing. This really is the device for me,
1:00:57for so many different things. And I'm so excited for when I can finally get a keyboard for this,
1:01:02and when I can get a pencil for this. We'll talk about that in a minute, because I think it will
1:01:06bring it even further along in that route. But it just remains frustrating for me. And I was
1:01:12was talking about this on upgrade we spoke about it in details you should go
1:01:14listen to that episode about the fact that you know I can't edit podcasts
1:01:19safely on this there are apps and we spoke about it earlier that can maybe do
1:01:23it but I as of yet don't trust them but I feel like over time that's going to
1:01:27change and what it's seeming like right now is my MacBook Pro will pretty much
1:01:32only ever leave this house if I'm getting on an airplane other than that
1:01:35I'll be taking the iPad I'm all-in on this guys I really really am I I adore
1:01:41it I really do. That's high praise from you Myke. It's grabbed me man it really really has
1:01:47for everything like for reading Twitter, for watching movies, for responding to emails like
1:01:53I'm still in the same issues where a bunch of apps that I use aren't updated and you notice it way
1:01:58more because they look ridiculous they just look ridiculous but I'm confident that the majority of
1:02:05of those apps will receive those updates but it's just you know I feel like it's
1:02:11a matter of time and that app Ferrite, the podcast editing app, I am
1:02:16gonna take a look at it and I will maybe try editing something on it at
1:02:20some point in the future just to see what it's like but yeah I am I'm all in
1:02:25guys I really am and it seems like a bright future for this thing.
1:02:28I'm very happy to hear that Myke. I got a technical question so please don't be upset.
1:02:33I'm not gonna be upset.
1:02:34Okay, promise.
1:02:36Okay.
1:02:37Promise.
1:02:38So, hypothetically, let's say that I manage to power the USB interface that I use with
1:02:46my microphone and to have the power in the USB interface and have data going into the
1:02:53iPad.
1:02:55Can I run Skype and Ferrite in split view and talk to you guys and record my local audio?
1:03:03On the other... No? Why not?
1:03:05It isn't possible to have the audio pass through and record in another application.
1:03:10They are like completely separate from each other.
1:03:12No, that's a bummer.
1:03:14And that is because...
1:03:16Well, it's possible to do if both of those apps integrate that audio bus thing.
1:03:21Yeah, yeah.
1:03:22But currently it's not possible.
1:03:24What I thought you were going to ask me is how I would feel if you wanted to do that, right?
1:03:29And my feeling on this...
1:03:30Oh, what were past feelings in your mic?
1:03:32Well, my feeling about all of this, and it's the same with editing a show on a device like this, is
1:03:39I am... my thing is all about trust of the device, and as of yet, like, I don't trust the iPad to do
1:03:48this because I've not done it for a specific period of time, or... and also it's maybe new in
1:03:54being able to be capable even to do tasks like this. I genuinely believe that in the future I
1:04:00I will feel comfortable about it, I'll be happy about it.
1:04:03But right now I just struggle to trust these devices
1:04:07to be able to do this, that specific type of work.
1:04:10I trust it more than enough to do many, many other things.
1:04:14But the thing that is like intrinsically important
1:04:16to my business and is the way that I make money
1:04:20and is complicated.
1:04:22And if like, for example, I start something
1:04:24and then lose it means time and money lost.
1:04:28That is why I'm just a little bit hesitant
1:04:30of being able to go down this road yet.
1:04:33- Fair enough, thank you.
1:04:34- Steven, how do you feel about the iPad Pro?
1:04:39- I feel conflicted deeply.
1:04:42I've gone from swings of this is insane,
1:04:46I'm going to return it to this is an insane device
1:04:50and I love it.
1:04:51It's like we spoke about before.
1:04:54I mean, my Air 2 is not really a work computer.
1:04:57as sort of a consumption device, reading, Netflix, research if I'm writing history stuff
1:05:04like YouTube and notes kind of the same time. That sort of thing. Not doing spreadsheets,
1:05:09not doing editing or a lot of writing on it. But the interesting thing to me with the Pro
1:05:18is not necessarily the power of it, although that is nice. It actually is just the simple
1:05:22thing of the screen size that split view and slide over and everything are just
1:05:27much nicer on this bigger display and and the biggest thing that I like is the
1:05:33software keyboard is finally a software keyboard and iPad that I can use really
1:05:38comfortably. You're American. Such an American. Wow. Because it's terrible for everybody else.
1:05:43It's just wrong. What I'm saying has nothing to do with the layout. It really
1:05:48is the size of the keys that it is much more comfortable than even the Air 2 keyboard for
1:05:54me just to type directly on the glass. Yeah but my problem is some of the keys are the
1:05:58wrong size. I know what you mean, I know what you mean. Pair it with a magic keyboard you'll
1:06:07be set. And so I've been using it a lot and I've been using it for more work stuff than
1:06:12I have ever used the Air 2 but then I go to use it in that sort of consumption role and
1:06:17it's kind of silly and if even a little troublesome to use it if you're you know
1:06:24watching something in bed or that sort of thing so so I don't know I will say
1:06:28and I share this thought with you guys earlier that I picked in my air 2 and it
1:06:33felt really tiny which is worrisome so I don't know if I'm gonna keep it or not
1:06:40if I do decide to keep it I will get the bigger one I just bought the 32 gig just
1:06:45to try it and take advantage of Apple's return policy.
1:06:49So I don't know, I need some more time with it.
1:06:53At this point I'm leaning towards keeping it,
1:06:55but I don't know.
1:06:57- You might still be in the honeymoon period.
1:07:00- Right, exactly.
1:07:01So I'm gonna run out the clock on this return thing
1:07:03and see, I've got a week from today,
1:07:06or a week from tomorrow.
1:07:07And part of my decision is tied up,
1:07:11and we can just move on into this,
1:07:13is that I can't find a pencil for the life of me.
1:07:18And I even have the business team hook up at the Apple store
1:07:20and they're supposed to call me when they get one in
1:07:22and they're gonna hold it for me.
1:07:24But they're just not, just can't be found.
1:07:27And I don't necessarily want it from like,
1:07:29I'm not an artist, I'm not really a sketcher,
1:07:32someone who doodles or draws a lot.
1:07:34But for me, it will help me understand the device better.
1:07:37And I'm not interested in the smart keyboard.
1:07:40Like I used it, I used both in the store
1:07:41the smart keyboard is dumpster fire at least the way that i want a keyboard to be but um
1:07:48i would like to like fully experience it with the pencil and i can't yet which is frustrating
1:07:53they screwed up so bad yeah i don't know what they've done but they screwed up so badly like
1:07:59there's no way around this like and they've screwed up about it in every possible way right
1:08:04one the device is out and this isn't out two they are advertising this like the tv ads have the
1:08:11the pencil in them.
1:08:12So much so that when I mentioned,
1:08:14like I was talking to my mom about,
1:08:16she was like, "What are you doing today?"
1:08:17I said, "I'm going to the Apple Store."
1:08:18She's like, "Again, what are you going
1:08:19"to the Apple Store for?"
1:08:21So I told her about the pencil.
1:08:22She's like, "Oh, is that the one on the TV?"
1:08:24Right, so the TV ads, right, are there.
1:08:27They have them in the stores so you can try them out,
1:08:30but you can't buy them anywhere.
1:08:32And the other part of it is, they're not talking about it.
1:08:35There's nothing from Apple about what is going on here.
1:08:39They are over, you have to wait over a month
1:08:41if you order it online.
1:08:43And I have tried in all of London.
1:08:45There is not, as of yesterday, from a call that I made
1:08:48to the Apple online team, they were checking stock for me
1:08:52and there was not one pencil in all of London
1:08:53at 10 a.m. in the morning when the stores opened.
1:08:56- That's crazy.
1:08:57- Like I don't know what they're doing.
1:08:59I mean, I understand Black Friday, that kind of thing.
1:09:03I could get all of that, but my feeling is
1:09:07they should have just waited.
1:09:09- Yeah, and they've waited before.
1:09:10The iPad Mini came out basically the week of Black Friday.
1:09:14And it was very constrained even then.
1:09:18They really slipped into almost Christmas
1:09:20'til the iPad Mini really kind of reached
1:09:22acceptable stock levels.
1:09:23But I guess that's the trade-off, right?
1:09:26That you have to decide, do you want the iPad out early
1:09:29and then the pencils and everything be ready?
1:09:32I finally just ordered one online
1:09:33and it's almost Christmas before it's gonna get here.
1:09:35It's like five weeks.
1:09:36And the, either way, I was just surprised that Apple
1:09:40didn't really say anything about it.
1:09:47That it was just like, oh, you go to order it.
1:09:49And I just had assumed that all this stuff
1:09:51would be available at the same time, like a normal person.
1:09:55And it's not, and I really think it's frustrating.
1:09:57And talking to the, talking to people
1:10:01at the Apple store here, it really seems like
1:10:04people are frustrated by that, and they're getting
1:10:06a lot of questions and I think there are a lot of people who are just going to hold off
1:10:10in their purchase until they can have both because for a lot of people that's a big draw.
1:10:16And it's sloppy. The Apple Watch release was sloppy where you could order them and then
1:10:22if you wanted a Black Link when you were waiting like two years, I mean it really was out of
1:10:26control. And they get it right with the iPhone but like every other product, the Mac Pro,
1:10:33shipping months and months and months after you ordered it.
1:10:37It's just, they have this problem and maybe it's that
1:10:41there was some technical issue, maybe it's that, you know,
1:10:45they had a supplier problem and who knows, right?
1:10:49I don't envy the problem of making things at scale,
1:10:51at Apple scale, because it seems incredibly difficult
1:10:54and I'm not smart enough to do it.
1:10:56But you gotta communicate, you gotta set the expectations
1:10:58and they just did it and so you have a bunch of people
1:11:00like running around in circles trying to find this thing and being frustrated
1:11:04they can't they can't purchase it. It annoys me when Apple allow memes to be
1:11:10created about themselves right so like this is becoming a meme now that like a
1:11:16product comes out and you can't buy it right because you know we just mentioned
1:11:20the Apple watch right it was it was the same the Apple watch it's the same here
1:11:23I was like, "You don't have to let this happen."
1:11:29It's not like the iPad Pro is a baby and it's coming when it's coming.
1:11:35You choose the day that it was released.
1:11:38You can choose that if you want to.
1:11:40So it tells me they made the choice to be like, "No, we'll just do this because of X
1:11:44and we'll go for it."
1:11:46And I know that there are business businesses that need to make money, but a business like
1:11:49Apple's, considering the way that they talk about things, also really care about customer
1:11:53satisfaction and you've got a lot of unsatisfied customers right now because
1:11:56people want to buy your product but cannot buy it and I think that it is
1:12:01very very peculiar and I know that like for some people who are very quick and
1:12:06ordered immediately like it seems that some people are getting theirs like
1:12:11they're getting them like on the way and there are some in some stores but I
1:12:16it greatly concerns me that there aren't any in London,
1:12:20like at all.
1:12:22And for as much as I know, there haven't been either.
1:12:26Like I know some people that have been checking as I have,
1:12:29I know some people that have been checking
1:12:30the two flagship stores,
1:12:31and it feels like there just haven't been any.
1:12:34And that is really, really weird.
1:12:37- Yeah.
1:12:38- Yeah, and it's again, it's that like frustration
1:12:40that people are excited about this,
1:12:43and you're sort of damaging that excitement.
1:12:45And that's not what you want for what you are, as a company, are really behind saying
1:12:50this is the future of computing for some people, for a lot of people.
1:12:56And hampering that just seems really counterintuitive to what they're trying to do.
1:13:02But the good thing for us is we get more content out of it, because if I would have got a pencil
1:13:06this week, then I would have just told you what I think about the pencil.
1:13:09But instead I got to complain about it, and then in a couple of weeks' time I can tell
1:13:11you what I think about pencil.
1:13:12Yeah.
1:13:13Well, Tim is really concerned about our show notes.
1:13:14Yes, many emails he sends us and this week he's gonna get what he wants.
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1:15:27now igloosoftware.com/connected. Thank you so much to igloo for their
1:15:31support of this show and the lovely relay FM. So we asked the listeners, the
1:15:38people in the world for some questions for us about the iPad. You can always
1:15:43send in your questions by the way, you can send them to our Twitter account
1:15:46@weare_connectedfm. And so the first one comes from Jan or Jan, I'm gonna go
1:15:52with Jan. Jan wants to know which keyboard do you prefer, I'll throw this to you
1:15:56Federico first as you've had the most time, Apple or Logitech? I know last week
1:16:00you were saying that the... is it smart keyboard? Magic keyboard? I can never
1:16:04smart keyboard.
1:16:05Okay, the smart keyboard is the one that you were sticking with.
1:16:08Has that remained?
1:16:09So if we're only talking about the keyboard, I would say I prefer the Logitech keyboard.
1:16:16I prefer because it's backlit, because the keys feel better to me.
1:16:20But the accessory that I would carry around with me every day,
1:16:26I would just say the smart keyboard.
1:16:29because the Logitech case is just bulky and it's difficult to get the iPad Pro into the case and not of the case.
1:16:39I don't like the plastic enclosure at all and if you were to ask me what kind of accessory should I buy because I want to take it out with my iPad and just put it in my backpack and travel, I would say the Smart Keyboard.
1:16:56If I were to buy one myself today, I'd buy the smart keyboard.
1:17:04And so Steven, you said you didn't like the smart keyboard.
1:17:07Have you had any time with the Logitech Create?
1:17:11I have not.
1:17:12I know they've had them in and out of stock at my store, but I have not played with it.
1:17:17I think what I will probably end up doing if I keep this thing, or even if I go back
1:17:22to the Air 2 is do what I have normally done and pair it with a Apple Bluetooth keyboard.
1:17:28I really like the Magic keyboard. The names are so confusing. The new one, the new slimline
1:17:36one. So I think if I will end up just kind of going that route again, that doesn't make
1:17:41it extremely portable, but I work at home and that's not a huge worry of mine right
1:17:49now. So I've had very little time with the smart keyboard every time and it
1:17:58seems fine. I'm gonna get one of those at some point in maybe 2020 when they're
1:18:05available in stores because I want to try that out. I want
1:18:09to have a self-contained unit like a laptop. I know, I understand.
1:18:15Like a laptop so it's always there and I can just grab it and
1:18:19it's part of it and it's the stand and the keyboard. I really am interested in
1:18:23trying that so that's something that I will be giving a go when I can get my
1:18:29hands on one. Rob would like to know does the pencil work in apps only if they've
1:18:35been optimized for it and does it work differently in different apps Federico?
1:18:39Well developers need to optimize for the predictive touch and coalesce touch
1:18:47APIs if they want to take advantage of them. And there's also other APIs for the Pencil.
1:18:54So developers have to optimize and to use these new APIs to support the Pencil, the
1:19:00pressure stuff, the angle that you want to use your Pencil. Those are new APIs. They
1:19:05require an update from developers. You can still use the Pencil on the iPad Pro, in other
1:19:12apps, it's just gonna be like a finger. So you control the iOS interface and you
1:19:17can draw just like you could draw with your finger. It's just not gonna be
1:19:21updated for the other features of the pencil, which is higher
1:19:26scan rate and the pressure sensitivity, the tilt. Those features
1:19:31require an update from the developers. If the developers don't update
1:19:35their apps, you can use a pencil on the screen. It's just gonna be a replica of
1:19:39your finger. So the apps that have integrated properly like paper and stuff
1:19:47like that, I'm seeing many people say that it's not as good as the Notes app.
1:19:51Does Apple have some secret sauce or is it just that these developers
1:19:55maybe need more time to tweak? Developers need more time to tweak and
1:20:00basically Apple just gives you the API's and a way to access the data that comes
1:20:05from the pencil. There's data that comes in from the pressure sensitivity, there's another
1:20:10API that's called the Azimuth, which gives you, my understanding is the orientation vertically
1:20:15of the pencil on the screen. Developers have this data, they just need to build their engines
1:20:19for it. So the Apple engine in the Notes app is better, I think, than other apps. Procreate
1:20:26comes close, I would say. Basically Apple gives you a way to read the data that comes
1:20:32from the Pencil, but the display does the rest, but the developers have to build their
1:20:36own drawing and sketching engines in their own apps.
1:20:39Alright, so it's a case of refinement over time to get everyone to the point where it
1:20:45can be like the Notes app if they want it.
1:20:46Yeah.
1:20:47Okay, well that's fine then, because I'd heard that it's better and worse in some apps, and
1:20:51I guess that completely explains why.
1:20:55So next question comes from Marina.
1:20:57In split screen, is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between the two open apps without
1:21:01touching the screen?
1:21:02No.
1:21:03Well, you could kind of do it, I guess, if you activate the Command-Tab Switcher.
1:21:11And if you put the focus in another app, that should become the active one.
1:21:16I haven't tried that, but I'm pretty sure that it does work like this.
1:21:19So this is not an official shortcut, it's more like a workaround.
1:21:24Because it's maybe a dumb decision of iOS 9 not to have keyboard shortcuts to interact
1:21:30with Split View and slide over, you need to touch the screen to tell iOS, "Yes, this is
1:21:34the active app that I'm currently using, it's the last touched one, and that's the one receiving
1:21:40keyboard input right now."
1:21:43I think you should be able to select the active app with Command-Tab, but I'm not completely
1:21:48sure.
1:21:49So Marina, you should try that.
1:21:53Brian would like to know, "Can you truly take notes with the Pencil using the Pencil, like
1:21:58in a real note-taking mode?"
1:22:00all that Brian's interested in. So I spent just a couple of minutes of a
1:22:05pencil because I was gonna run to another store to see if I could get one.
1:22:08And my experience with it is it's the closest to note-taking that I have
1:22:17ever seen. So if you imagine a piece of paper as large as the iPad and you take
1:22:22a pencil and you put the pencil on the paper the line is the same size that I
1:22:26would expect it to be. Which is not the way it's ever been with any other of
1:22:30of these types of things you have to zoom in right to get it to be small I
1:22:33was able to write very small and it looked like my handwriting on a piece of
1:22:36paper so if people are I mean I know that I am the pen guy right and I will
1:22:41have a more kind of I'm gonna I want to spend some more time of it and do a more
1:22:45thorough kind of thinking and a review for the pencil because I feel like I may
1:22:50be a person in the place that can talk about it right because I care about this
1:22:54stuff but I would say thumbs up on that at least that it looks like my hand
1:23:00writing on a piece of paper which is unlike anything else I've seen from this
1:23:04type of stuff before from a stylist on an iPad.
1:23:07Yeah my only experience with handwriting was that image that I sent you
1:23:12and CGP Grey and that I also used on the Mac stories review. I do not hand write
1:23:17like never at all. So you know that's all I have to say. It feels pretty
1:23:25good but I don't even remember what a pen and paper feels like so you know
1:23:31Munish would like to know do you find the screen to take more smudges than
1:23:35previous models or is it just me oh my god yes what is wrong with this thing
1:23:43what is going on here they've changed something they must have changed
1:23:47something yeah I would say for the pencil maybe there's some you know maybe
1:23:51the coding is different on screen I don't know. Apple didn't tell me it's got
1:23:55they just said it's got the same what is the term oleophobic coding of the previous
1:24:02iPads so there you go. If they have they've done something different to it
1:24:06because it's not the same. Yeah. Like it is very different I look at it sometimes
1:24:10and I'm like what happened to you? How did you get this way? What have you gone
1:24:17through. What troubles have you seen? I've seen hands and fingers all over me.
1:24:24Like was I eating chicken wings and then using this? What's going on here? It's crazy. It seems to
1:24:30retain a lot of that lovely finger oil. Chris would like to know how far can you
1:24:35push iPad Pro memory? Like how many apps or browser tabs does it take before a
1:24:40reload or refresh? I feel like Federico, if you are the person that would know
1:24:44this if it's possible to know this? So I only got two anecdotes maybe. One is
1:24:52the workflow extension that I use to combine images and maybe access
1:25:00files that are not like just a few kilobytes, actually a few megabytes per
1:25:06file. The workflow extension seems faster and like it takes fewer seconds to
1:25:13execute and to finish them on the iPad R2. But last night I was playing around with JavaScript actions in one writer, which is this text editor for the iPad.
1:25:26And I was looking up, because I don't know JavaScript, I was looking up StackOverflow, Google search all over the place. I got like 30 tabs open.
1:25:34And in one particular example, I had opened a web app to debug a JavaScript regular expression
1:25:43like 30, 40 minutes before.
1:25:46Then I went on with...
1:25:47You really are very special.
1:25:50Then I went on with my research and I opened like maybe a couple of dozen tabs after that.
1:25:57When I went back to the web app, I lost the regex that I was trying, but I went back to
1:26:04the web app, so maybe like 15 tabs before, and it was still open and stored in memory,
1:26:11and I could copy the expression, and I didn't lose any of my progress there.
1:26:16So in Safari, it was running fullscreen, so it wasn't in SplitView, but in Safari, it
1:26:21much much better than the iPad R2. So I would say it retains upstate a lot more than the iPad R2.
1:26:31It's not just speed, it's also how long can you keep something open without having to reload it from a cold start.
1:26:39So yeah, there is progress there.
1:26:41Marina would like to know, I get that the Pencil doesn't pair when you plug into a non-iPad Pro iOS device, but does it charge?
1:26:50Another funny detail here. I tested this. I didn't write it in my review because I didn't know what to make of it.
1:26:58So you plug it into the iPad Pro, it charges. I plugged it into the iPad R2, it charges.
1:27:05I plugged it into the iPhone and I saw the pencil battery going down.
1:27:11[Laughter]
1:27:14I saw it in the widget.
1:27:16So was the pencil charging the iPhone? What was it doing?
1:27:20I have no idea. I would say it was some kind of bug. And that was before I put the iOS
1:27:279.2 beta on my phone. So it might as well have been a bug of iOS 9.1, or maybe it's
1:27:34just not meant to be plugged into an iPhone. In theory this shouldn't happen, because you
1:27:39should be able to plug it into any sort of lightning-capable accessory or charger and
1:27:44and it should charge. But I saw with my eyes the widget and the battery going down for
1:27:50a couple of units in the percentage status of the battery. So, no idea what that happened.
1:27:57I would suggest plug the pencil into the iPad Pro or into a lightning cable. Don't plug
1:28:05it into an iPhone. Because just try to do what Apple says, not what it's in theory possible
1:28:11to do. Again, maybe it was a bug just one time, but I did see it with my eyes so unless
1:28:18I was drunk, which I wasn't because it was the middle of the afternoon, plus I don't
1:28:21drink a lot, I did see the widget going down on the iPhone. No idea why.
1:28:28And finally, Ling would like to know, is it possible to use the iPad Pro in bed? If so,
1:28:33has it hit Federico's face at some point? So I would like to ask the second question,
1:28:38has the iPad Pro hit you in the face yet?
1:28:40No. It hasn't. It is possible to use it in bed, there's a disclaimer here.
1:28:46You have to turn the brightness all the way down. That's the one thing you need to do.
1:28:50I always do. I always do. Always less than 50% for me. All the time. Never full brightness on my iPad.
1:28:57No, never full brightness, but I have personally found that the only way to stop my girlfriend
1:29:02from being upset that I use the iPad Pro when she's trying to sleep is that the brightness
1:29:07has to be all the way down. Oh no, no, that would be crazy.
1:29:10That's what I thought, but it's fine when the lights are off, you know
1:29:13Yeah, I mean my girlfriend isn't particularly upset about brightness
1:29:18What I wanted to say is I see some people saying that it's a it's an uncomfortable device even with two hands
1:29:27It's uncomfortable in portrait
1:29:30You that's why I in the review
1:29:33I said you should really go to an Apple store and try an iPad Pro in your hands on your own because I
1:29:39I don't know Myke, did you look at my hands when we met?
1:29:43Do you think I have big hands?
1:29:46You do have big hands.
1:29:48I have big hands too, like this is the thing that we have.
1:29:50I don't know if it's the size of your hands is the thing that helps in this.
1:29:55You just need to accept that it's heavy and if you want to use it comfortably, you're
1:30:00just going to have to change some of the ways that you've used iPads.
1:30:03It's not the same, you can't hold it in the same ways, you can't support it in the same
1:30:07But you just need to adapt to it, which I have.
1:30:10And people say, "Oh, why are you adapting for the device?"
1:30:13Because I love the device, and I use it in bed every evening.
1:30:16I use it in bed in the mornings too.
1:30:18And I just have to hold it differently.
1:30:20Maybe sometimes I sit differently, so I prop it up on my knees.
1:30:22Yeah, exactly.
1:30:23It's just what you do, right?
1:30:24And you just change the way that you interact with the device.
1:30:27It's the same as when I went from an iPhone 5 to an iPhone 6 Plus.
1:30:32You just adapt to the device if it's something that you really want, and then you just go
1:30:36for it.
1:30:37work of it and that's just how you live.
1:30:40Yeah because the benefits of the overall experience kind of outweigh the
1:30:46adaptation of ergonomics. So I do what Myke does, I prop it up on my knees or
1:30:52maybe rest my elbows on my lap. You know, some minor adjustments, no big deal.
1:30:57I want to use this device so some smaller changes are necessary.
1:31:02That's what I would say.
1:31:04- Steven, I'm assuming that you haven't really
1:31:07used the embed so much?
1:31:11- Well, Steven already has an Apple II embed,
1:31:13so doesn't use the iPad.
1:31:15- That's right, yeah, it's just on a little cart.
1:31:17I mean, you guys are right, it is big
1:31:19and you do have to think about what that means
1:31:23in all your various use cases.
1:31:25So, you know, it's something that it's really hard
1:31:27to talk about because in some ways it's so much bigger
1:31:31than I expected but um yeah it just it takes some adjustments at least for me
1:31:38so I have not it has not fallen on my face my all my my bones in my face are
1:31:43still intact there we go you can expect a bunch more of this type of stuff as we
1:31:49get the accessories in and as we start a little bit of devices I'm interested to
1:31:52see if Stevens gonna stick with his so you want to keep tuning in to connected
1:31:55if you want to hear more about the iPad Pro as I'm sure and hope that many of
1:31:59If you want to catch our show notes for this week head on over to relay.fm/connected/66.
1:32:05Thanks again to our sponsors Igloo, Smile with TechExpander5 and lynda.com.
1:32:11If you want to find Federico's work online head on over to maxstories.net and he is also
1:32:15@Vittici V I T I C C I on Twitter.
1:32:18You can find Steven's work over at 512pixels.net and he is @ismh on Twitter and I am @imike.
1:32:26Thank you so much for listening, we'll be back next time.
1:32:28Until then, say goodbye guys.
1:32:30Au revoir.
1:32:31Au revoir.