0:00:00[Music]
0:00:06From Real AFM, this is Connected, episode 50.
0:00:10Today's show is brought to you by Igloo, an internet you'll actually like.
0:00:14Fracture, photos printed in vivid colour directly on Glass, and Todoist,
0:00:18the task management app that's with you everywhere.
0:00:21My name is Myke Hurley, and I have pleasure to be joined by my lovely co-host as I am every single week,
0:00:27the one and only Mr. Steven Hackett.
0:00:29- Hello.
0:00:31- And Mr. Federico Vittucci.
0:00:33- Hey Myke, what did you say all those nice things
0:00:36about Steven and not about me?
0:00:39- I said my lovely co-hosts.
0:00:41- Oh, okay.
0:00:41- Yeah, you are also of the lovely.
0:00:44- So I'm also lovely, okay.
0:00:45- You're very lovely, you're very dear to me Federico.
0:00:47- Okay, hi Myke.
0:00:47- Hello Federico. - How are you?
0:00:49- I am very well, I am very well indeed.
0:00:51Congratulations everyone, we have made it to episode 50.
0:00:55So it's the... in terms of wedding anniversaries, this should be the golden something.
0:01:04Yep, and if you look under your chairs, you will find that I have prepared Apple Watch
0:01:08editions for you.
0:01:10Both today.
0:01:11Steve, I understand that you're at home in Federico.
0:01:14You're at home, right?
0:01:15Yes.
0:01:16Okay, great.
0:01:17I am.
0:01:18Then if you look just under your chairs, then you'll find them because I put them in those
0:01:20specific places for you.
0:01:22I looked under my chair and there's a Roomba. You know one of those vacuum robots?
0:01:26Uh the Roomba right the addition.
0:01:28Drow no.
0:01:30Robot or not man.
0:01:32It's charging like it's kind of scary there's a light.
0:01:35Why is it under your chair?
0:01:38It's under the desk actually I don't know who left it here.
0:01:41I hope it's not on because...
0:01:43No there's like a green light and it says clean. I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean.
0:01:50I think it may be... see that's confusing. Does it need to be cleaned or is it cleaning?
0:01:56No, I believe it's a button that you need to press when you want to clean.
0:02:00Should I turn it on?
0:02:03Yeah, just press it, see what happens.
0:02:05Okay.
0:02:06The end of the podcast.
0:02:07Oh my god, it's making sound, it's moving.
0:02:09[Laughter]
0:02:10Turn it off.
0:02:11No, no, no, no, no.
0:02:12[Laughter]
0:02:15How do I turn it off?
0:02:16[Laughter]
0:02:18Oh my god, it's moving again.
0:02:19I don't know it's making noises.
0:02:22Alright well we've just got that guy.
0:02:24The light is orange now and it's beeping and it looks like it's about to assault me.
0:02:30Just gonna start crawling up your leg.
0:02:32What do I do?
0:02:33It's not even mine.
0:02:35I would just leave it now.
0:02:38Should I just like throw it out of the window?
0:02:41Don't know, if it's not yours I wouldn't do that.
0:02:45Why did you make me do this?
0:02:47I thought it might be fun to have a roving Roomba reporter.
0:02:51It's got like little brushes underneath and they move very fast and it looks like a predator.
0:02:58That's how it does the cleaning.
0:02:59Okay.
0:03:00Steven, please take us into follow-up.
0:03:03Let's talk about, well we have follow-out.
0:03:06Follow way out into space.
0:03:09Yeah, I did.
0:03:12Wow.
0:03:13- Puerto Rico is growing in the background,
0:03:17but Jason and I did a space show thing
0:03:22last, over the weekend.
0:03:24- Why don't you come think of me about this?
0:03:26- I can't tell if you're into space or not,
0:03:27it's hard to tell.
0:03:28You can go check it out, it's on the B-Sides feed,
0:03:32which is sort of where we put extras as a network,
0:03:34episode 12, let us know if you like it.
0:03:37We would like to maybe do more of these things
0:03:39in the future, so your feedback would be
0:03:42welcome to Jason and I. It was a lot of fun to talk about Pluto and stuff.
0:03:47There'll be a link in this week's show notes. Yes. Where could show notes be found?
0:03:52In space. Let's ask the Roomba. No, no, I'm not touching that thing again.
0:03:58Okay relay.fm/connected/50thebig50. Right. So it's the edition
0:04:06episode today. You bet it is. We decided last week that would be the title I think.
0:04:11So moving from follow-up to follow-up, we have a tweet from James Woods, period, on Twitter,
0:04:19asking Myke to follow up on being happy with Apple Music even though you couldn't stream for
0:04:25six days. And you answered this on Twitter, Myke, but I thought it was an interesting question,
0:04:29actually one that I wish I'd asked during the show. So how do you reconcile being happy with
0:04:34something that was broken for a week? So I'll just preface this again, frankly I doesn't remember. I
0:04:39I was saying that last week that there was some sort of DNS issue or something with Apple
0:04:46Music which meant that some people in the UK couldn't listen to music on their Mac, they
0:04:51couldn't stream for a week.
0:04:52I was just fine with it.
0:04:54I mean look, at the end of the day, I knew what was happening there, like there was a
0:04:59systems problem in specific scenarios and my iPhone sits on a dock which is elevated
0:05:06and I have one of those high rise docks by 12 South,
0:05:09that's right next to me.
0:05:10So when I couldn't stream,
0:05:11because anything that I'd listened to recently
0:05:15seemed to be playable,
0:05:16like it was cached in some way,
0:05:18but it wasn't downloaded.
0:05:19Like I didn't download anything on the Mac,
0:05:21so I don't know why it was doing that,
0:05:22but some things it could play.
0:05:24But anything that I wanted to stream or whatever,
0:05:26I could just do it on my iPhone,
0:05:27and it was just sitting right there.
0:05:29And to be honest, the quality difference,
0:05:30like to my ears between my iPhone and the MacBook speakers,
0:05:34are not massively different.
0:05:36So I was just able to deal with it that way.
0:05:38Like if, for example, it's still today
0:05:42I was having this issue,
0:05:43it would have been really, really annoying.
0:05:45But in all honesty, it hit me like maybe four or five times
0:05:48over the space of a week.
0:05:49And I maybe listened to,
0:05:51like I maybe pressed play on Apple Music
0:05:53like 50 times in that time period.
0:05:55So it wasn't really that much of an issue.
0:05:58I get why maybe you would ask the question,
0:06:00but it wasn't a problem.
0:06:02- Wow, Myke, I'm so disappointed in you.
0:06:05I know, I've let everybody down really.
0:06:07Don't you know that if you buy really good, expensive headphones, the music completely
0:06:12changes?
0:06:13Like, you can hear sounds that not even on the strongest of acids you could hear those
0:06:23sounds.
0:06:24Like it's day and night difference, yeah.
0:06:26Like you can hear colors?
0:06:29You can feel the guitar strings in your head.
0:06:34very painful sometimes. Well I don't really have much to say to that but... I'm
0:06:40just gonna move on. Yeah. We have spoken a lot about iCloud Drive as Dropbox
0:06:46replacement as a backup etc etc and we spoke briefly about versioning something
0:06:51that Dropbox offers a really nice web interface for versioning so I can go
0:06:56back and retrieve files I've deleted or files that have been changed and of
0:07:01course on the Mac time machine offers this the built-in backup utility in OS 10
0:07:06so I can go and I can pull up a folder or even a document and go back in time
0:07:13on my local time machine drive and pull old versions of it.
0:07:16There's some thoughts, we have a tweet in here in the show that's about
0:07:23documents being versioned in iCloud Drive accessible through the time machine
0:07:31interface and I got some emails about this too and so I wanted to to clarify a
0:07:36little bit. Best I can tell
0:07:39iCloud Drive documents, the documents that are in the iCloud containers and finder
0:07:44are not versioned by iCloud. If you go to the time machine interface and you go
0:07:49back in time it is pulling those files from your time machine hard drive. So for
0:07:54me I have a 3 terabyte hard drive plugged into my Mac, my time machine drive and is
0:07:59pulling old versions of iCloud documents from there. I tried to recover old iCloud
0:08:07documents with that drive unplugged. It doesn't work, it gives you an error saying I'm
0:08:10looking for this volume I need this hard drive attached. So it doesn't seem like
0:08:14this is a true thing. Looking at Apple's website as well they don't really
0:08:19mention versioning anywhere in the iCloud Drive stuff and so if versioning is important
0:08:24to you I would say stick to Dropbox if you want your documents synced in the cloud somewhere.
0:08:30Dropbox offers a really nice system for that and iCloud doesn't seem to offer really anything.
0:08:38So there's that.
0:08:39Dropbox leading the way.
0:08:42Yeah I'm making a decision this week.
0:08:47I'm struggling to find a way to properly organize my screenshots for the iOS 9 review.
0:08:55And right now I have a mess of screenshots in the Photos app.
0:09:01And I'm thinking, should I make an album in iCloud so it updates all the time on the iPhone,
0:09:08the iPad and the Mac?
0:09:09I don't know if it matters but still it'll be there.
0:09:13Or should I just go the old fashioned way and create a bunch of folders in Dropbox and
0:09:19every time I know that a screenshot is going to be used I can maybe, I can also organize
0:09:25folders for like beta 4, beta 5 and each time I take the same screenshot so I can track
0:09:31changes across different beta versions of iOS 9.
0:09:35And I think I'm going to go with Dropbox because of the control that it gives me.
0:09:38I can create folders, subfolders, and right now, iCloud Drive simply isn't an option if I want to do this kind of stuff.
0:09:46And also, I still don't completely trust it, so I think I'm gonna go with Dropbox.
0:09:53Actually, I just talked myself into using Dropbox right now, so thank you, Steven and Myke, for letting me talk to myself.
0:10:00Sometimes the best decisions are the ones that you have to come to on your own.
0:10:04Yes, especially during follow-up.
0:10:06- Yep, it's the only real time.
0:10:09- It's where I make all my big decisions.
0:10:11There are a couple links in the show notes too
0:10:12from the chat room,
0:10:14discussing versioning and Time Machine stuff.
0:10:15Again, iCloud Drive is nowhere to be found in there.
0:10:17So it'd be nice if it could do it.
0:10:20I think the Time Machine interface is an obvious choice
0:10:23of where to put that stuff, right?
0:10:26That's where you go now and maybe you can switch
0:10:31between iCloud and Time Machine or something in the future.
0:10:33But as for now, I think Dropbox is the way to go
0:10:36for most people if you need that sort of control.
0:10:38Federico, I'm with you.
0:10:40My stuff is in Dropbox.
0:10:41I have very few things in iCloud Drive.
0:10:43And most of those are just scratch notes
0:10:48and that sort of stuff.
0:10:49We got two more pieces of follow up this week.
0:10:53The first is about headphones and earphones and running.
0:10:58I got a lot of email and tweets.
0:10:59I'm not putting any in the show notes.
0:11:01Not really gonna address any of it.
0:11:02Specifically, I have lots of things to look at on Amazon.
0:11:05Thank you for emailing me in.
0:11:06I'm not sure what'll work and what won't yet,
0:11:08but if I find something I like,
0:11:10I will follow up at that time.
0:11:12And finally, we come to a very non-tech related
0:11:19piece of follow up.
0:11:20- Wait, what is this? - It's really a request.
0:11:22- Just look at this now.
0:11:24- So Jamie emailed us, and Federico,
0:11:28do you want to read this and then maybe--
0:11:30- Sure.
0:11:31- Steven's only said this because he's seen words in here
0:11:34that he knows he can't do. He like bailed out last minute. He's like "uh, Federico,
0:11:38do you want to read this?" No, Steven, why don't you read this? No, I'm not gonna read
0:11:42it. Okay, maybe, so Jamie writes, maybe Federico can validate this and give his expert opinion.
0:11:50Best pizza in Rome is at Pincerio Pincerio on Via Flavia, just next to the Marcella Roya
0:11:57Hotel and follow that up with ice cream from Gelateria Caruso on Via Colina just around
0:12:03the corner. I'm in love. Can you just read that again, please?
0:12:08The best pizza in Rome is at Pincerre - never heard of this before - on Via Flavia, just
0:12:15next to the Marcella Royal Hotel, and followed it up with ice cream from Gelateria
0:12:20i Caruso, I believe. Not just Caruso. I Caruso on Via Colina. I like that you put
0:12:26more Italian in the second go.
0:12:28I appreciate that.
0:12:30Yeah, so I don't know.
0:12:33Never heard of these two places before.
0:12:35It could be that I'm not huge on going to the center of Rome, because it's super busy
0:12:42and parking spots are a complete mess, and I also don't like to take the subway during
0:12:50the evenings, especially in the late evenings in Rome.
0:12:53So I should drive there, but it's always a problem to find a parking spot.
0:12:59So I'm not a big expert in, I believe these places are, because it sounds to me like Via
0:13:04Flavia should be in the center of Rome.
0:13:09So I'm not sure.
0:13:10I can ask around Jamie if that's okay.
0:13:15I have a few friends who are experts about pizza in Rome.
0:13:19I think I should actually go to the center more.
0:13:22Because I live in Rome and I never go there.
0:13:24In two years I've never been to the Coliseum once.
0:13:27So it's kind of a shame right now.
0:13:29It's different when it's the place you live, right?
0:13:32Yeah, yeah.
0:13:34I know.
0:13:36Like I don't feel the need to go to the center because it's always there.
0:13:42But at the same time I'm kind of missing out because I don't go there.
0:13:45It's beautiful.
0:13:47Maybe Jamie has provided a turning point for you in your life.
0:13:51Thank you Jamie.
0:13:53You're making life changes in the follow-up.
0:13:57I tell you what Federico, I would say that if you visit these places say on a date, be
0:14:04a very special lady friend, and if you report back in follow-up, I would say that that is
0:14:11a business expense.
0:14:13Yes.
0:14:14Maybe Relay can pay for your date.
0:14:17My dates can get really expensive.
0:14:18Well, it's only pizza and ice cream. Don't go crazy. Don't go to the hotel.
0:14:22No, come on. So, nothing to drink? Well, the hotel is mentioned in the request. And it's
0:14:31a Royal Hotel. It's a Royal Hotel, so it sounds fancy. I don't know. I'm just saying.
0:14:38By the way, in terms of pizza types, I really like the real Italian pizza, which is the
0:14:46pizza from Naples. So that, you know, the slightly tall pizza, not a very thin, you
0:14:53know, thin kind of pizza. We do have different kinds of pizza in Italy. There's some people
0:14:57like my parents, they prefer thin pizza. And so thin slice, thin crust. I prefer the taller
0:15:04one, the one from the Southern Italy from Naples. So that's my kind of preference.
0:15:09And ice cream, I love ice cream, all kinds of ice cream. So if it's artisanal and I'm
0:15:14not trolling here because we actually do make the real artisanal highscreen here even better.
0:15:21I found the hotel website and I just need to point out they used the blink tag so they
0:15:28have this headline and it's blinking red text to me. It's really not good.
0:15:34What does it say? Tell me what it says.
0:15:36It says that "New" is blinking in red letters. Click here to become our fan on Facebook.
0:15:42Let's move on to our first sponsor of this week's episode.
0:15:53Today we are very happy to be brought to you by Todoist.
0:15:56Todoist is a task manager that is available everywhere.
0:16:00You will be hard pressed to find a system like this that is available in more places.
0:16:05Todoist is currently on 16 platforms including mobile apps, web browsers, email inboxes,
0:16:11for
0:16:30since they launched in 2007.
0:16:33And this functionality lets you take your productivity to the next level.
0:16:37This is pure Federico Vittucci level of automated productivity right here.
0:16:42At its core, Todoist offers powerful task management features like recurring due dates,
0:16:47natural language date passing, location alerts, task project sharing, subtasks and subprojects,
0:16:53labels, filters, real-time comments, productivity tracking and so much more.
0:16:57It is an incredible system that can help you be productive, but also as a system to help
0:17:02you stay productive with others.
0:17:05On that note, Mr. Federico Vittucci, I know that you've used Todoist in the past to help
0:17:10you coordinate around big releases.
0:17:14Could you tell me about some of the stuff that you like and if you're going to be using
0:17:17it again for that?
0:17:18>> Yeah.
0:17:19I really like the filters feature.
0:17:23So it lets you set up custom views in the app, so if you have a bunch of projects and
0:17:30maybe if you assign tags to tasks or if maybe you want to filter just a subset of tasks
0:17:38that have a specific due date, you can create these filters which help you navigate different
0:17:44kinds of views in Todoist.
0:17:46So for instance, last year, and I think I'm going to do the same this year, I had a bunch
0:17:51of filters for my iOS 8 review and app coverage on Mac stories.
0:17:55So I could easily see the apps that the reviews that I needed to finish for the most important
0:18:02apps.
0:18:03So those were priority one, the red setting apps with the due date by next week and I
0:18:10could then see the other apps that were coming up in two weeks.
0:18:13So I could easily, without having to tap on different projects and then sorting manually,
0:18:18I could just tap on the filters.
0:18:20And that was super handy.
0:18:21I also like the collaboration features, which is something that not every to-do app lets
0:18:27you do.
0:18:28Those are usually like single-user apps.
0:18:30And instead of to-do is you can invite others to collaborate with you on projects.
0:18:35So we have, I think, a couple of shared projects with Mac Stories.
0:18:40We have one for pitches, so apps that developers send us over email for consideration.
0:18:47And I created this crazy recipe with IFTTT, or should I say IFTTT, I think it's the correct
0:18:53pronunciation these days.
0:18:56And so IFTTT, and it looks into my Gmail account and every time I drop an email from a developer
0:19:03into a specific, actually every time I assign a specific label, IFTTT sends it to Todoist
0:19:09and because it's a shared project, everybody gets to participate on that email.
0:19:15Not just that, because everybody sees the email as a task in Todoist, but also Todoist
0:19:21can be connected to Slack.
0:19:23So every time there's a new shared task in Todoist, we also get alerted into the Teams
0:19:27Slack room, which is awesome, it's crazy, we love it.
0:19:31And so collaboration filters, and I love the fact that, like you mentioned Myke, there's
0:19:37a rich ecosystem of third-party apps.
0:19:40So you can get crazy like I did and you can create your own Python scripts like in Python
0:19:45Istor or editorial and now there's even a new API so you should be even simpler and
0:19:49faster to use.
0:19:50But you can just use third-party apps for Todoist.
0:19:54So one that I really like is the DoNote app by IFTTT and it basically you create a Todoist
0:20:01recipe with DoNote, you open the app, it starts in a text box, you start typing, you tap a
0:20:06button and you save as a task to Todoist.
0:20:08todoist. It's super awesome. So if you're into, I guess, to-do platforms, not just apps
0:20:16that you use on your own, but a platform that lets you collaborate with others and connect
0:20:20to different apps and use an API and have these advanced features like filters and tags
0:20:26and you can combine all of these things, I really recommend todoist because it's really
0:20:32different from the usual to-do app for iOS. It's really rich and powerful and it works
0:20:38everywhere. So it does get my seal of approval. Not just because it's a sponsor, because I
0:20:44truly love the service and the company.
0:20:47People can go through the archives, we've spoken about them before, you've written articles
0:20:50about it before, I'll put that in the show notes as well so people can see even more
0:20:55about why you love Todoist. Todoist has a community of nearly 5 million users and it
0:21:00continues to grow like crazy. They are completely self-funded and powered by an almost entirely
0:21:05you
0:21:23premium accounts to give away to listeners of this show. So you want to
0:21:27follow us on Twitter we are @_ConnectedFM and over the next week
0:21:32I'll be tweeting out some premium codes for you to sign up for your own one year
0:21:38account courtesy of Todoist. Thank you so much to Todoist for sponsoring this
0:21:43week's episode of Connected. Right so today I got Apple Pay! Yes because you
0:21:52You got a shopping problem, so you're the best person to report on Apple Pay.
0:21:56This is unfair, this is unfair, and I won't stand for it.
0:22:01So I woke up this morning and thought I would try it out because my bank said that they
0:22:06were supporting Apple Pay today, and they were.
0:22:08And the setup was pretty easy, so I just went into the Passbook app or in the Settings app,
0:22:14there's like the Passbook section, and I just signed in with my Apple ID, put my password
0:22:19in, and my card was pre-filled for me, right?
0:22:22the card that I use with my Apple ID I just had to enter the security code then
0:22:28I don't know if this is the same for everybody but I had to have a
0:22:31verification code sent to me by email or text message from my bank so I chose to
0:22:37get it by email and they emailed me a code and I just pasted this into the
0:22:42passbook entry for my card so you have to go back in the passbook and you just
0:22:46enter in there it says like enter the verification code which I did I like
0:22:49that it has a little image of my card right there in Passbook and it has the
0:22:54same design as my debit card. Which I think is a really nice touch. Yeah it looks the same.
0:22:59It doesn't have like obviously doesn't have like the numbers and stuff on it
0:23:02but it has all the colors are the same and the background is the same. I assume
0:23:06that the banks can provide an image to Apple to allow this to happen because
0:23:12it's not even just the standard HSBC like it's the specific account type that
0:23:17I have it has a specific color card and I have that one. You can enter in all
0:23:22your default shipping information and stuff which I thought was quite clever.
0:23:25So I guess this is for like apps that use the Apple Pay functionality. This is
0:23:30so old to so many people but I'm gonna talk about anyway because I've been so
0:23:33excited about it. One thing that is kind of annoying, although I know why you have
0:23:38to do it, is I had to enter all of this information in on my iPhone, my watch and
0:23:43my iPad like it doesn't sync it won't and it can't and I get why but it makes
0:23:48sense
0:23:48yeah it makes sense I get you know in theory I only have to do it once for
0:23:52every card that I add but the moment I only have one card in there. So why do you
0:23:55have it set up on your iPad is that for just the in-app purchasing thing? Yeah I
0:24:01just guess I might as well put it in there I mean because there aren't a lot of apps in the
0:24:05UK yet that are supporting it but I guess as that continues to increase like it would just be
0:24:10useful so I just thought I would just enter in the password. More than
0:24:14anything I wanted to see what happened. If I entered it in, what was
0:24:18the process the same? Because plus I'm using iOS 9 on the iPad. So it's
0:24:23wallet. Exactly. So it's wallet. Which is really weird, right? Because there is
0:24:29wallet in the settings but there isn't a wallet app. There is a wallet app. Is there?
0:24:35I couldn't find it. I think it's because I'm doing that weird region thing anyway.
0:24:38because I'm not, yeah.
0:24:39So I then went out of the house today to try it out.
0:24:45So I had, I did have my wallet.
0:24:48- You make it sound like you don't usually
0:24:50go out of the house.
0:24:51- But that's correct Federico.
0:24:53Not every day my friend.
0:24:55I did take my wallet with me
0:24:57because I was going to buy lunch
0:24:59and I thought if for any reason this doesn't work,
0:25:01I still want to be able to buy lunch.
0:25:03So I took my wallet with me anyway.
0:25:05And I went to two different stores
0:25:07So I could try it out once on the watch and once on the phone.
0:25:13So I was buying a sandwich for myself in a little bakery here.
0:25:18But it's a chain bakery so I expected it would work.
0:25:21They're not listed as a partner.
0:25:23It was a cheese and onion pasty we call it here.
0:25:26It's not actually a sandwich but I thought it would be easier for me to explain it that
0:25:29way but that's what I bought.
0:25:31I went to Gregg's for anybody in the UK.
0:25:34That was where I went today.
0:25:35because I knew they had contactless and I wanted to try it out because they're
0:25:38not listed as a partner on Apple's website which I you know I believe would
0:25:42be fine because it should work whoever contactless is. So I was standing in the
0:25:47line and before I went to the counter I double tapped the watch button and then
0:25:51the watch kind of readies itself and it's like it says ready and I asked the
0:25:56the lady what I wanted. I used the "can I use contactless" trick from our listener
0:26:03last week. Held my watch to the reader, no touching. I would not touch my watch to
0:26:07the reader and it was done. It was very easy. So I just held it up and it went bleep bleep.
0:26:11Does the watch screen have to like face down on the reader or just like your wrist normally?
0:26:17I just like held my wrist to it. I didn't do any crazy contortion. Like I didn't like flick my arm
0:26:23over or like I just held it towards it. Like I didn't really, I wasn't very specific about how
0:26:29I did it I just kind of like push put my arm basically I've moved my arm towards
0:26:34the reader and before I had any like chance to change the direction it had
0:26:38already gone through no okay so it was really easy and then for the phone I
0:26:45bet it's basic it's pretty different actually the phone so you I had the
0:26:52screen off like I was listening to a podcast I took it out of my pocket and
0:26:56and you just hold it over the reader and then the the Apple Pay UI pops up with
0:27:01like the card and stuff and it's like touch here and then like you hold your
0:27:05fingerprint down and it does the payment like you don't invoke it in the same way
0:27:09like in any way like you do on the Apple Watch like on the Apple Watch you're
0:27:12telling the watch to turn the reader on but with the phone you just hold it at
0:27:17the reader and then just put your fingerprint down and it's done so it's
0:27:22It's they're both pretty simple, but the watch is faster and I think probably more convenient for me anyway
0:27:28Especially because I have such a big phone right but like it was just like it was very simple
0:27:33I preferred the watch I like that it was quicker because it is quicker
0:27:36You know, it's not by a lot
0:27:38But when you're doing something that only takes like a second anyway adding another second on it is doubling the time it takes so
0:27:44So I liked it do you have any either of you have any questions for me
0:27:50Did you like the sandwich?
0:27:51The sandwich was fine.
0:27:53Again it's not really a sandwich, I just couldn't think of a way to describe it.
0:27:58It's like a pastry kind of item.
0:28:02But yeah it was very nice, thank you Federico.
0:28:04I also have a real question.
0:28:08Like when you used the Apple Watch with the reader, did people look at you weird?
0:28:17Was it a big deal that you were paying with your watch?
0:28:21I wasn't hiding but nobody noticed but nobody was looking at me at the time.
0:28:28People behind me may have seen but the lady she was like she activated the car thing and
0:28:34then started like I don't know what she was doing getting some carrier bags out or something.
0:28:38She wasn't looking and I just did it and just pulled my arm away again.
0:28:42So for her like the transaction's gone through it's like not a problem.
0:28:46didn't even notice but I expect that that will happen a little bit over the next little
0:28:51while that people won't understand what's happening because it is weird and I mean I
0:28:55did feel a little bit weird doing it just because it was the first time you know.
0:29:01Yeah, probably because I mean you're paying with your watch that's kind of amazing when
0:29:05you think about it.
0:29:06I mean I guess like in the tech Twitter kind of sphere because we are also experts about
0:29:16you know, tech specs and how stuff works. Sometimes we forget about actually what is
0:29:21going on. I mean, we're paying for stuff with a watch.
0:29:24That's crazy.
0:29:25That's crazy! That's insane! It's amazing, right? And we kind of feel that sense of...
0:29:30we kind of lose that sense of magic, right? That sense of wonder, maybe. I don't know.
0:29:37But I was talking to a friend at dinner the other day and I was showing him the Apple
0:29:42And he was so genuinely excited, you know?
0:29:47I mean, it was like, so you can make phone calls with the watch?
0:29:50And he wanted me to call him to demonstrate the phone call stuff.
0:29:53So hearing you talking about Apple Pay, I feel, I mean, that sounds crazy, Myke.
0:30:00Super, super nice.
0:30:02You just hold your wrist up and you buy a sandwich with the watch.
0:30:05That's crazy.
0:30:06Yeah, nice.
0:30:07It's pretty magic.
0:30:09I'm very happy with it.
0:30:10I mean, I have to say, I've been looking forward to it for a while and I'm pleased that it's
0:30:15here for me because I get to pay in this awesome way and tomorrow, over the next couple of
0:30:20days, I'm actually out in London, so I'm going to be using it on the tube and stuff like
0:30:24that.
0:30:25So I'll let you know how that goes.
0:30:28Yeah, you beat me to it.
0:30:30Yep.
0:30:31Your bank's never going to get it, man.
0:30:33You just got to face up to that fact.
0:30:35I know.
0:30:36I suggest...
0:30:37Switchbank.
0:30:38Switchbank.
0:30:39It was actually a K-Base article I learned
0:30:42of all the banks that support it.
0:30:44- Of course you know that, of course you know that.
0:30:46- I didn't know that until just now
0:30:48and I used my custom Alfred K-Base search thing
0:30:52that I wrote to find it.
0:30:54Anyways, I thought it'd be interesting this week
0:31:00to talk about how the three of us consume news
0:31:05and then a little bit later how we work.
0:31:09All three of us work sort of in the the tech news industry more or less and I don't consume news I create news
0:31:15So
0:31:30Part this is my own our minds a little bit because of Apple news coming in
0:31:35IOS 9 all three of us are running IOS 9 have you guys gotten a chance to play with the Apple news app yet?
0:31:41And if so, what are your thoughts on it?
0:31:44Myke do you want to go first? Yeah, I don't like it
0:31:48I've only used it my iPad, but I think that like the information density is all wrong
0:31:56Like there's there's a ton of articles and they're all different shapes and it's it's really difficult to know
0:32:05where you need to be looking.
0:32:07And I know why they're doing this. They're trying to make it look like a newspaper, but
0:32:12we fixed that model.
0:32:15You don't need to worry about column inches. You can do any layout you like.
0:32:21It's not important. So I don't really know what articles they choose to be bigger than others. I don't like it.
0:32:30I think that the way that you choose the stuff that you want to see is a little bit flawed and like
0:32:37the fact that it seems that Apple is like randomly pulling images like
0:32:41When I'm looking at the sources that I want to read a wheel of colored iPods doesn't tell me that I'm looking at Mac stories
0:32:49But for some reason that's what they choose like that doesn't mean anything to me
0:32:54So this is something I saw for you recently Federico like the big image
0:32:57was something that you were using which was like I think it's from an Apple ad or something like that and
0:33:01It was like a wheel of colored iPods
0:33:04It's like this is this doesn't mean anything to me like and then you have like this tiny little Mac stories logo
0:33:09Like I just want to see a big Mac stories logo like that doesn't make sense
0:33:15I'm
0:33:17I'm not really a big fan of it like when you're actually reading an article it looks fine
0:33:21And it you know it looks like a nice way to look at things and you can quite easily see the source stuff
0:33:27but then it also seems to assign these random tags.
0:33:31The other day I was reading something on Steven's website
0:33:34and a tag was just pixel, which was interesting.
0:33:39- So close.
0:33:40- I don't really understand why they're doing
0:33:44some of the stuff they're doing.
0:33:45I feel like they've got too many robots doing this
0:33:50and not enough people and that's why it feels to me
0:33:53a little bit unappley.
0:33:56And I hope, what I hope is that this is just
0:33:59as they're gathering data and like eventually
0:34:01they're gonna be, they're gonna go like,
0:34:02here you go publishers, here's a ton of tools
0:34:06for you to make this stuff look right.
0:34:09That's what I hope.
0:34:10'Cause like, for example, when I look at Mac stories,
0:34:12I've got like these three headings at the top.
0:34:15- Which should be five because I changed them to be five
0:34:19in my publisher setting,
0:34:20but setting is not propagating to Apple News
0:34:23for some reason, I don't know.
0:34:25That makes sense then.
0:34:26But yeah, it's just…
0:34:27It is weird.
0:34:28It is weird.
0:34:29And as a publisher, I can tell you it is especially frustrating when I put out content on my website
0:34:39and there's a difference between what you see on the website and what you see on Apple
0:34:44News.
0:34:45It's, I would say, curated feed by robots.
0:34:50I don't think there's like an Apple person who sits there and every time I hit "publish" he goes "okay, yeah, I want to feature this"
0:34:57because you know, it's a link or maybe just a quick review of an iOS app.
0:35:02So it's weird because sometimes, at least right now in the beta, sometimes articles show up, other times they don't.
0:35:10And maybe it's just a bug or maybe it's a feature or maybe it's a robot.
0:35:16So I don't know.
0:35:18I would say, I agree with you Myke on all the weird things, like the layouts are just
0:35:27like there's too much white space and some stuff is too big, some stuff is too small,
0:35:33and sometimes I notice this, especially like I was searching for Mac stories. Now I don't know if
0:35:40this is a Mac stories issue but I don't think so. So and basically I search for Safari View Controller
0:35:47which is an article that I wrote a couple of weeks ago.
0:35:50And instead of having a result as a Mac Stories article,
0:35:56I get the Daring Fireball link.
0:36:00So the link that John Gruber put up on his website.
0:36:04But there was one of my images.
0:36:06And not even the top one, just a random screenshot from my article
0:36:11in his post on Daring Fireball, which is super odd.
0:36:15I don't know what they're doing with algorithms and scraping websites, but it seems strange.
0:36:21They're machine learning, man.
0:36:22It'll get you.
0:36:23The tags can be really weird sometimes.
0:36:28Like if I'm looking at a – I was looking at a Kickstarter article about a campaign,
0:36:35and the tag was "Product Manufacturing Industry," which, okay, yeah, sure.
0:36:40I mean, you were manufacturing a product for the Kickstarter campaign, but maybe that's
0:36:45That's a little too literal, you know?
0:36:47You can get a little more specific than that.
0:36:50But I want to say, I did manage to find a couple of interesting links on Apple News.
0:36:58In fact, I'm using it to kind of discover stuff for our Mac Stories Weekly newsletter.
0:37:05Last week, like three or four links in our links section were discovered on Apple News.
0:37:12And I think if you use the service enough, it gets better relatively quickly.
0:37:20In a week I started following some topics, I used the little love icon to say "yeah,
0:37:28I like this" and the topics got better.
0:37:31But still, the explore section is too generic.
0:37:36Like I go there and it gives me as a recommendation like basic stuff like "I should follow Apple".
0:37:42Yeah, okay, sure.
0:37:44That feels like a healthy amount of news to receive.
0:37:46Yes, I do love my Apple News.
0:37:50I go there and it's a bunch of generic recommendations instead of getting really specific.
0:37:56Before Apple News when there was like Zite and even Flipboard or there was another one,
0:38:03I don't remember, they could get really specific.
0:38:06The sections that they recommended to me were things like Python scripts or Evernote.
0:38:12And those are kind of more specific sections and topics that I'm interested in.
0:38:17But if I go to explore right now in Apple News, I get things like consumer products
0:38:23and services, which, okay, I guess I'm into consumer products.
0:38:27I'm a human being and I live in Italy.
0:38:30Or I get, this is another topic that I get in the suggested topics, computing and information
0:38:35technology.
0:38:36Yeah, sounds fancy.
0:38:37I love me some information technology.
0:38:42Interactive media, there's a human eye with a reflection of the Facebook logo in its retina.
0:38:49And yeah, I guess I do like eyes looking at Facebook.
0:38:53So the topics can get a little bland and generic.
0:38:58But the main page, the "for you", there is some interesting stuff.
0:39:03I feel like I don't want to complain too much right now because it's a beta, because maybe
0:39:07the robots are still learning and doing whatever it is they do.
0:39:11There are some things that are obviously wrong, like the layouts very much to be desired right
0:39:16now.
0:39:17There's no way to simply say "I don't like this".
0:39:20You can say "I like this" with the love icon, but you cannot say the opposite.
0:39:24You can report a suggestion as being inaccurate or offensive, but there's no basically hate
0:39:31icon, which is maybe a little strong, but even on Apple Music you can tap and hold
0:39:36and say "I don't like this suggestion". You cannot do the same on Apple News
0:39:40right now. So we'll see, we'll see, I don't know.
0:39:44I mean my issue with it, and we're going to talk about RSS in a second, but I for the most part want to read
0:39:52what I have chosen to read, and I read the mix of writers that I pay
0:40:01attention to because they they surface things that are interesting right and so
0:40:06for me it's sort of there's a mix in there of things like Mac stories or
0:40:10Marco's website or doing fireball of things that I I read and I will follow
0:40:15things they link to but then there's also this sort of weird churn going on
0:40:19of stuff that you know it's trying to add or suggest and and it does some
0:40:24weird stuff which is understandable like linked lists style sites like Federica
0:40:29like you and I both do where it will pull in images.
0:40:33Like if I link to something on The Verge,
0:40:35it will add The Verge's photo to my article,
0:40:38which I'm not republishing their article on my site.
0:40:40And Feedly does the same thing, which I really dislike it.
0:40:43'Cause it looks like I am using their images and I'm not.
0:40:48And so, I mean, that's understandable to a degree,
0:40:50but there's some of that weird use case for people like me
0:40:55and reading the sites I read
0:40:57that it can kind of get weird in a hurry.
0:41:01Can I say just one more thing about Apple News?
0:41:04Of course.
0:41:05Because right now I'm scrolling through the pages of the suggested topics
0:41:10and on the fourth page there's mobile app.
0:41:14Which, okay, I think I do cover mobile apps,
0:41:17but then I keep scrolling and there's US Politics, Medicine, Android, and Sports.
0:41:25Now, I do wonder if Apple's priorities are not aligned with the correct way of making
0:41:38Apple News a great service.
0:41:41Because by not linking products and services together, so Apple doesn't want to share information
0:41:47for things you look up in Safari or stuff you look up in other Apple apps, they don't
0:41:54want to share this information with other services because they feel like they want
0:41:58to respect customer privacy.
0:42:01And I know that a lot of people feel very strongly about this topic.
0:42:05But when you go to something like Apple News, I go to Apple News and I have an expectation
0:42:10that a service based on robots and algorithms should know that I'm definitely not into sports
0:42:16or Android or US politics.
0:42:19And I feel like that by respecting the user privacy too much, the end user product also
0:42:26becomes worse.
0:42:28And I know that a lot of people, there's many arguments in favor of Apple or the Google
0:42:35way of doing things.
0:42:38I just feel like right now in beta force, or disclaimer, I do know it's a beta and
0:42:42etc. But right now it feels like this strong respect for privacy also makes the product
0:42:51a little dull and generic. And maybe it'll change with time, maybe it'll learn without
0:42:57having to look up my information in Safari or Mail or other apps, but maybe it won't
0:43:04and we'll see when it launches.
0:43:06So I have to say at this point, like, whenever I use Google Now and like I was using it today,
0:43:14I was playing around with my Android phone, it's using my Google search history. And it says to me,
0:43:22like, "Hey, here's a site that you read that has a new article that you might like." And it's like,
0:43:29every time I see one, I'm like, "Yep, that's correct." Or like they, what they do is like,
0:43:34Like I see from sites that I don't know, but it's breaking news about a topic that I've
0:43:39looked at and searched for before.
0:43:42And I see that and I'm like, "Yes, that's what I want to see."
0:43:47Because it's doing exactly what you're saying Federico, it's learning from my search history
0:43:51and showing me stuff that is important to me based on the fact that I have explicitly
0:43:55searched for something like this before.
0:43:59And or I visit this website in Google Chrome and there's a new post on it and they're showing
0:44:03me. And it always tends to, with the new post stuff, they always tend to show me,
0:44:07and I don't know if they do this purposefully, for sites that have
0:44:11infrequent updates. So like it's not showing me every time there's a new post
0:44:15on The Verge, but like it shows me "oh Casey had a new blog post" and it's like
0:44:21"yeah that's useful because I might not have seen that." Like so you know that is
0:44:25the way that that I would love to see this kind of stuff work but I can see
0:44:31have, you know, I see what you're saying Federico, like the fact that they don't
0:44:35want to share this data between the applications means that it's unlikely.
0:44:39But it would be nice if I could say yes please do it.
0:44:43Yes exactly. Or don't do it.
0:44:46Yeah.
0:44:46You know.
0:44:47But I have.
0:44:48And even if you don't give me this setting at least give me proper training controls in the app.
0:44:53Let me say yeah okay this is very interesting or no I don't like this or yes this is mildly interesting
0:45:00so we'll see about this topic.
0:45:02If you don't want to use my data across different services, at least let me say yes or no or
0:45:10maybe.
0:45:12Right now there's just a way to say I love this, which is a strong feeling to use this
0:45:16love feature everywhere.
0:45:19Sometimes you don't love stuff.
0:45:21Sometimes I just mildly liked it.
0:45:24Sometimes I just, you know, like sometimes I just don't hate stuff.
0:45:30I just accept that it exists, but I don't love it.
0:45:34You know?
0:45:35Should we take a break and then talk about some other services?
0:45:39Yes.
0:45:40Let's do it.
0:45:41This episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Fracture.
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0:48:18So RSS then. I'll start off. I don't use RSS at all anymore.
0:48:27You're fired from this show. I tried to pare down my subscriptions to like 30
0:48:33maybe about six months ago and I still wasn't I just wasn't doing it I just I
0:48:40I just don't check it enough.
0:48:43It's just not something that interests me anymore.
0:48:45I don't really read like that.
0:48:47Yeah, I guess you don't have a blog and you don't do links like Steven and I do.
0:48:53So maybe you just don't need RSS.
0:48:56Maybe Twitter is enough for you.
0:48:58I don't know.
0:48:59I'll talk about Twitter in a minute and why I think it is, but I think that you've hit
0:49:02the nail on the head.
0:49:05What about you, Steven?
0:49:07I do use RSS.
0:49:08use feed bin for the back end and the unread app on iOS and I maybe we can
0:49:19get into Twitter a little bit but my issue there is that Twitter flows by too
0:49:24quickly and I know with RSS that what I subscribe to will be waiting for me so
0:49:29like I haven't opened reader on my Mac in hours but I know that I won't miss
0:49:33anything not that I will look at it all but I know that everything that has
0:49:38happened will be in there waiting for me and I like that sort of handle on things
0:49:43that RSS gives you and I just you know Twitter is fleeting and fast and even
0:49:48with things like lists I just can't keep up so I've used RSS for a long time
0:49:52it's early Google Reader days and it continues to be really central to how I
0:49:57how I read and how I work.
0:50:00I use RSS a lot. I tried many services over the years and it's been since December or
0:50:11January and I'm not switching from this one. I use NewsBlur. It's not pretty. It's kind
0:50:19of ugly in places. It looks like a Windows app sometimes but it's got all the right features.
0:50:27Basically, NewsBlur lets you subscribe to RSS and create folders and all that kind of
0:50:34stuff.
0:50:35And it lets you save articles you can even share with other NewsBlur users.
0:50:39So it's kind of like Google Reader, you know, when you used to be able to comment on articles
0:50:43with other people.
0:50:44But I don't care about that stuff.
0:50:47The key aspect of NewsBlur is that it lets you promote and downvote keywords in headlines,
0:50:58entire websites, specific authors, tags from articles if the CMS exposes tags to the user.
0:51:07So you can get very specific about the kind of topics that you like.
0:51:11So I can follow a lot of websites, and even websites like The Verge or Polygon or Kotaku,
0:51:20which have the noise to signal ratio, is very much inclined towards a lot of posts kind
0:51:33of website.
0:51:35But I can follow them, because then whenever they write about things that I don't like,
0:51:40I don't know, Donald Trump or the latest game for the Xbox One that I don't have anyway.
0:51:48I can just highlight the keyword or the author if the author always writes about the topic
0:51:55and just say thumbs down, I don't want to see this ever again.
0:52:00And in the future, if an article matches that kind of thing, it'll be hidden from my list.
0:52:05So I follow a lot of websites in NewsBlur, but because I've been very careful about promoting
0:52:11and downloading stuff, now it's a feed made just for me.
0:52:16And the best thing is if you spend time kind of training the service and you say "okay,
0:52:24I like this topic, I like this website", you can create the focused list, which is like
0:52:30a specific feed of just the things that you like and that you're interested in.
0:52:36So if I go there and it's been like a couple of days and I haven't checked RSS, I can just
0:52:41go to the focus list and I can just take a look at those so I know it's the most important
0:52:47stuff for me and I can be done with RSS quickly.
0:52:50So in NewsBlur and RSS it lets me follow the websites that I wouldn't want to follow on
0:52:55Twitter because Twitter doesn't have these kinds of controls to say thumbs up, thumbs
0:52:59down, I don't care, I do care, and instead I can use this smart feature in Newsblurr
0:53:06to do this and I discover a lot of blog posts that I link to or maybe
0:53:12links that I can use in the newsletter. I am thankful for this kind of feature
0:53:18and I hope the Newsblurr never goes away because there's no other service that
0:53:23does this so I'm really happy.
0:53:25So I mainly use Twitter as the way I find out about a lot of things and this
0:53:32comes through in a different way, a couple of different ways. I follow a lot
0:53:35of people, right, so if something starts happening and it's getting a lot of buzz
0:53:40I'm likely to see the link come through. I'll either see it come through a few
0:53:44times or I'll catch one of the people that tweets about it. I also follow the
0:53:49accounts for blogs that I like, so you know things like Steven's site and
0:53:55and Federico's site and Brad's site and Jason's site
0:53:57and you know, sites that I like,
0:53:59I follow their Twitter accounts.
0:54:01I also follow a couple of the fire hosey types of accounts.
0:54:06So I can follow The Verge and I follow Polygon
0:54:10'cause they tend to be my favorite sites
0:54:12in those scenarios where they're just gonna
0:54:15spew a bunch of news at me
0:54:16'cause I can only take a couple of those.
0:54:18I've tried to do more than one in each category.
0:54:21- It gets out of hand.
0:54:22- Yep, and one of the annoying/great things about those
0:54:26is if something's really good,
0:54:28they'll tweet about it multiple times
0:54:30over different time periods.
0:54:32So that can be annoying, except for the time--
0:54:34- In case you missed it.
0:54:36- Yeah, but they don't even, luckily they don't do that.
0:54:39They just pretend like you never saw it, you know.
0:54:41They actually do it in case you missed it,
0:54:43because they don't actually use the thing.
0:54:45But whilst it's annoying sometimes,
0:54:48'cause you're like, oh God, this happened like two weeks ago,
0:54:51why are you still tweeting about it?
0:54:52There are times where this is where I find stuff.
0:54:54So it's like, you know, I take the good with the bad.
0:54:57Because most of the time they don't annoy me.
0:54:59And most of the time I am getting the information
0:55:01that I want because it's sometimes the only place
0:55:03that I get it from.
0:55:05So I've been, I mean, it works for me
0:55:08because I never feel like I'm behind the curve.
0:55:12Like I don't maybe find that like little unique piece
0:55:18that that person wrote that maybe one or you,
0:55:20like one or two of you may find,
0:55:22like you two may find it and link to it.
0:55:25But then if you link to it,
0:55:26I'm gonna see it from your blog, you know?
0:55:28So I find that I follow a select handful of curators
0:55:32that I quite enjoy.
0:55:33- Sexy.
0:55:34- Yeah, I know.
0:55:35And that works for me.
0:55:37Like I don't want another inbox to be checking
0:55:41and that's just how RSS feels to me today.
0:55:44- I guess using RSS, using Twitter
0:55:49and all these other types of feeds,
0:55:51comes down to whether you have the inbox mindset or not.
0:55:55So by design, I am the kind of person
0:55:59that is a completionist.
0:56:01I need to read all my RSS.
0:56:03I need to manage all my email.
0:56:06I need to look at all the tweets all day.
0:56:10When I wake up, I load the timeline from eight hours ago,
0:56:14usually just seven hours or six,
0:56:16And I read every single tweet.
0:56:18And during the weekends, I read every tweet.
0:56:21I don't miss any tweet.
0:56:23And Twitter is, in fact, part of my job.
0:56:26And it sounds crazy.
0:56:27What is it that you do for a living?
0:56:28I write and I do podcasts.
0:56:30Oh, and I also check Twitter.
0:56:33No, but seriously, I discovered--
0:56:35it feels weird to say you discovered people,
0:56:38because I'm not like Christopher Columbus.
0:56:40I didn't discover people.
0:56:41But I just, you know, I get to know new people like developers and bloggers and sometimes these connections, right?
0:56:49It feels very social networking kind of talk.
0:56:51But these connections lead to maybe I get to be a beta tester for a new app or maybe I get to be interviewed by someone for his blog.
0:57:00And look at the three of us.
0:57:02I mean, exactly.
0:57:04Exactly. We are living proof that Twitter silliness can lead to even more silliness
0:57:12just in front of a microphone. So, reading Twitter, it's annoying sometimes, especially
0:57:22when the Americans decide to pile on the same joke or the same politician. Other times it's kind of
0:57:28of amazing when a big event happens and you see all these reactions.
0:57:33It's crazy during Apple events.
0:57:36So my timeline gets cut off during Apple events because it's just too many tweets.
0:57:40But on average, I read every tweet because I discover and I follow over a thousand people.
0:57:47People ask me how I do it.
0:57:49It's crazy.
0:57:50It's part of my job.
0:57:51I dedicate a solid couple of hours each day to Twitter.
0:57:55And that's part of the deal.
0:57:57You gotta follow the people to find the links and that's how it worked for me.
0:58:03I've been trying, I've installed and I've been tinkering with Nozzle as a way to surface
0:58:09some of that stuff but one of my main problems at the moment is I follow a handful of writers
0:58:15that work for some of these sites.
0:58:19Like I follow a bunch of Polygon writers and a bunch of Verge writers so every time there's
0:58:24big article on either site it always comes up on Nozzle because they all link to it.
0:58:27Which is totally fine I get why they do it right but it makes that service kind
0:58:32of pointless so I might not use it. It feels like because there have been a few
0:58:36things that I found in Nozzle that I liked that I didn't see otherwise but I
0:58:43feel like maybe the service is pointless unless I unfollow people that I don't
0:58:48want to unfollow. So it's I don't know if I'm gonna if I'm gonna keep using it.
0:58:53I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Jack's Twitter were to buy Nuzzle soon. I don't know anything,
0:59:03just a suspicion. It feels like such a perfect fit. It's such a good match for the service,
0:59:10especially now that they're getting into this curation stuff with Twitter lightning project,
0:59:16whatever. I just feel there's too much talk about Nuzzle being a great enhancement to Twitter for
0:59:23Twitter not to consider an acquisition. I don't know. It's a great product and it's useful.
0:59:27The notifications, I like them. Maybe I'm away from Twitter because I'm focusing on
0:59:35writing an article as I am this summer, for instance, and I see eight of your friends share
0:59:40the same link and I know almost, you know, almost foolproof that it's something that I should check
0:59:46out because again, nozzle uses people as the engine and not just all kinds of people but
0:59:53the people you follow and you decided to follow those people.
0:59:56So it's a very, very clever trick and yeah, I use nozzle a lot.
1:00:03It's my go-to on days that I can't keep up on Twitter or that I've been maybe offline
1:00:09instead of completing my timeline or if ArcSess is out of control, that's sort of my safety
1:00:16of hey I just wanna make sure that there's something
1:00:19going on I should know about.
1:00:21And it really is nice for that.
1:00:23- It's a good way to take the temperature.
1:00:25- Yeah, exactly, that's a really good way of saying it.
1:00:28One thing I do wish, and maybe it does this,
1:00:31it sounds like it doesn't though if you haven't found it,
1:00:34of a way to mute people in Nuzzle.
1:00:38So if those Verge writers are sort of coloring
1:00:43your experience in Nuzzle that you could turn them off.
1:00:45or have their links weigh less in the algorithm or something.
1:00:50I could see some growth there for them
1:00:52of fine tuning it a little bit.
1:00:55But overall, yeah, Nozzle's great.
1:00:57It has an adorable icon, which is always a win as well.
1:01:01But definitely something that I use
1:01:02as a sort of a second line if I can't keep up during the day.
1:01:06I just kinda go to that and see what's going on.
1:01:09- You know, something that I've always wanted
1:01:12to bring up on the show.
1:01:13When you follow a lot of people on Twitter, you start to notice this weird metamorphosis
1:01:20of memes and jokes on Twitter.
1:01:24And you see this cycle repeat over and over.
1:01:27And it gets to the point where there's usually an outrage happening and a big news comes
1:01:35out.
1:01:36And you see, it happens all the time.
1:01:40Because people making a joke, mixing the two, or maybe it's a big world event and maybe
1:01:48something about Apple, and you see people mixing the two as a joke.
1:01:53Like I remember when the Americans, the Marines caught Osama bin Laden a few years ago.
1:02:03And also Apple Maps was having issues.
1:02:07suddenly there's everybody making jokes that that he was using Apple Maps and he
1:02:11got caught. Or, you know, and it happens all the time, like there's a politician
1:02:16says something and they make the joke about, you know, technology. And you see
1:02:20this repetition of the joke, like the transformation of the meme, and it's kind
1:02:26of amusing but also annoying to watch. So when you follow a lot of people, I know
1:02:32I can reliably tell you when a news comes out and when Apple or Google are doing something,
1:02:39there's going to be the in-between meme or the mixed joke, and it gets annoying after
1:02:45a while.
1:02:46But there should be a joke filter on Twitter.
1:02:50There should be a Twitter for Business and there's a toggle and you say "serious Twitter"
1:02:54and you hide all of the jokes and you just get the news.
1:02:57I would love this.
1:03:01My favorite thing, and I know that we all have this, is like, I follow different Twitters.
1:03:07Like I have Tech Twitter and Space Twitter and like Video Games Twitter and you know,
1:03:13I don't have Space Twitter, Stephen does, I don't know why I said that.
1:03:16That's really weird, words can't be unmasked, I didn't expect.
1:03:20But like, you know, I follow a bunch of different Twitters and it's really interesting to me
1:03:25because I'm like, "Oh, you're from Video Games Twitter."
1:03:27Like it's really interesting.
1:03:29Yes, yes. Do you follow anyone from weird twitter?
1:03:34Oh yeah, well at least I've tried and I can't.
1:03:38Yeah.
1:03:39Maybe like Darth is the only person that I can deal with in weird twitter.
1:03:45That's kind of weird/cute twitter.
1:03:48Yeah.
1:03:49But like you know there's a lot of buzzfeed people in weird twitter and I love it for a while.
1:03:53like there's too much weird that I can't keep a handle on so I have to kind of
1:03:59let it go. Yeah step in and then you then you see... maybe Kyle's
1:04:07the gray maybe he counts as like a beginner weird Twitter. Yes. Alright
1:04:16shall I take a break and then we have an interesting final topic today to run
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1:07:07- So I thought it'd be interesting to talk briefly
1:07:11about how we get our work done from a sort of,
1:07:16not really workflow perspective,
1:07:18but sort of big picture maybe.
1:07:20So all three of us being independent,
1:07:24doing sort of overlapping things
1:07:26that could be interesting to run through.
1:07:28So Federico, you write for a living
1:07:32for the majority of your time.
1:07:34What does that planning look like?
1:07:37What is getting an article from your brain
1:07:39through your iPad to the internet? How does that go?
1:07:45It depends on the kind of article that I'm writing.
1:07:48Primarily I do app reviews
1:07:51and stories, so editorials, kind of opinion pieces
1:07:56on the website.
1:07:58My writing process has been...
1:08:02looking back I think it has always been the same since high school.
1:08:06And that is, I don't write multiple drafts of an article.
1:08:13And I always compared myself to my friends back in high school and now to people I know
1:08:20that do the same job that I do.
1:08:23And there's people, they write entire stories and they're not happy with them and they just
1:08:31throw them away.
1:08:33And I've never had this mindset, and I guess it's that the article happens in my brain
1:08:40before it becomes words with a keyboard.
1:08:45And the same way.
1:08:47Like I'm capable of... sometimes I find myself thinking about an article for like weeks and
1:08:54weeks and weeks and I don't start typing because I don't have a clear angle.
1:09:01Every time I write an article it's because I have an angle, a specific point of view
1:09:07that informs the entire article.
1:09:10I guess a thesis maybe you could say, but it's just a central topic or a central idea
1:09:15and from that idea I extrapolate everything else and the article happens around that idea.
1:09:23And sometimes that takes weeks or months.
1:09:26Other times it's a Sunday afternoon and I see something fly by on Twitter and the idea
1:09:33pops out on its own in two seconds and I know exactly not just the topics that I want to
1:09:40cover or the other ideas of the article, but I also know the kind of flow that the article
1:09:49will have.
1:09:50And so it's like if, in those occasions, it's like, and I know that this sounds incredibly
1:09:55hippie and kind of magical, but you know, creativity, it's kind of weird like that,
1:10:01but I know, I visualize the article in my brain, and I know how it's going to turn out
1:10:06on the page.
1:10:08But that's very rare, and usually I need to help the idea become an idea, you know?
1:10:16I need to put myself in the position of saying, "Okay, now I know what I'm going to write."
1:10:21And usually that implies research.
1:10:23And I feel like for most articles, research can be testing, so whether it's software like
1:10:32an iOS update or an app, research is knowing what I'm going to talk about, and in this
1:10:38case it is software, so maybe it's how the software works or how the design is structured
1:10:45or why the developer chose to make this kind of feature or design choice.
1:10:51And maybe for weeks or even months in the case of IOS reviews, I don't write anything,
1:10:57I just sit there, I watch videos, I take notes, I take screenshots.
1:11:02And for big articles I do mind maps.
1:11:05I really like iThoughts for IOS and the iPhone and iPad.
1:11:12I like it because it lets you use text and images and you can export in different formats,
1:11:18but really I can zoom out from the mind map and I can take a look at all the topics from
1:11:24like a top-down perspective and that's not just cool to look at, that's kind of useful to see.
1:11:31You know, I use a horizontal layout so there's a central idea and then it's like a flower
1:11:37with all ideas around that central topic.
1:11:41And I feel like being able to see the density of those ideas and of those notes helps me
1:11:48form a structure of Jericho in my brain. So when I sit down, I already know the intro,
1:11:54and I already know what's going to follow that intro. And usually, and this may sound
1:12:00weird to other people. But it's not so unusual for me to write the conclusion before the rest
1:12:08of the body of the article. And that's not a preconception. That's because I wait until I
1:12:15have a conclusion to start writing the article. So for me, the conclusion doesn't happen
1:12:20in high school, in Leighton, we would say in Medias Res, which means in the middle of things.
1:12:28And the conclusion doesn't happen to me.
1:12:31The conclusion lets me start the article.
1:12:34That's maybe strange for some people, but that's just how I work.
1:12:38I don't start until I know how it ends.
1:12:43And that really helped me.
1:12:46I feel free, you know, when it's liberating to know what it's going to be like in the
1:12:52end.
1:12:53And I feel like it lets me enjoy the writing process more.
1:12:56Because if I were to start writing without knowing where things are going, I would just
1:13:00feel anxious.
1:13:02And I would just feel like I don't know what I'm doing, like I don't know what I'm talking
1:13:06about.
1:13:07And at the end of the day, mind maps, notes, screenshots, those are just tools.
1:13:16The basic point for me is knowing what I want to talk about.
1:13:22Is knowing the idea.
1:13:23using the idea, the central, the very simple idea, I feel like the copyright now, in Inception.
1:13:31But the basic idea helps form the entire article, whether it's a short article or a long one
1:13:39or the kind of work that you need to do for three months.
1:13:43But that's always the case for me.
1:13:46And everything else is just a tool.
1:13:48So editorial, I cannot live with editorial, Python-y stuff, photos, Dropbox.
1:13:54But for me, I would say I don't do drafts because I don't like the anxiety of discovering
1:14:01the idea while I'm writing the article.
1:14:05The article needs to happen after the idea is as a conclusion.
1:14:08And I guess that's my writing process.
1:14:13That's really interesting to hear.
1:14:14as far as the I need the conclusion I need the I need the the complete thought
1:14:21before I can write exactly the same way I've been working on or thinking I
1:14:28should say thinking about an Apple watch review for really going on like four or
1:14:35five weeks now and I don't haven't started because I don't really have a
1:14:40conclusion yeah I don't really know where it's going and like you that's not
1:14:43to say that my writing will be influenced by that thought,
1:14:47but it's that that thought is the writing itself.
1:14:50It was always very frustrating for me in school.
1:14:53I took a lot of writing classes
1:14:54and they'd want to see drafts,
1:14:56and it's like, I don't, I can't do that.
1:14:58Like, outline the scene before you write it.
1:15:01Like, I've already done that in my head.
1:15:02Like, why, you know, I would often backfill that work,
1:15:05you know, backfill, hut, and outline,
1:15:07and really have the whole thing written already,
1:15:09which got me in trouble a few times,
1:15:12but I'm the same way.
1:15:14I thought I could talk about writing the history stuff
1:15:18that I do, sort of specifically that's unique to 512
1:15:21to a degree.
1:15:21I will start with the idea or topic,
1:15:25so hey I wanna talk about this machine,
1:15:28or what I'm doing in iMore,
1:15:30like this history of the iTunes store.
1:15:35I pick my topic and then I go into research.
1:15:40that's a very different thing than like an editorial because it's I'm not really
1:15:43saying my opinion I'm sort of explaining what happened maybe why it's important
1:15:46and so a couple tools that are really key for me
1:15:50Wikipedia course is huge the wayback machine looking at Apple's website in
1:15:55the past can be helpful there's an app for OS X and I was called Mac tracker
1:16:00which has basically all of Apple's hardware and software products in it so
1:16:03you can go it's like oh I'm looking at the you know the mirror drive door g4
1:16:08And I can look at the dates the information the specs
1:16:10Any interesting background that the app may know about is all in there
1:16:14It could be a really great reference point for starting out of like where does this fall into history?
1:16:19What came before it what came after it? What made it unique and
1:16:22then a couple websites low-end Mac is a great one to cover a lot of
1:16:26old Apple stuff and a lot of good articles explaining sort of the the nitty-gritty of
1:16:33differences between you know this this power book in that power book and etc and it could be
1:16:38helpful to read someone else's take on that the
1:16:41People who run low and macro super great have had a lot of conversations with them over the years about stuff
1:16:47And they're always very helpful
1:16:49Often my research will span more than one working session that we'll see if that changes now that I have a little more time to
1:16:57Write but I will store things in instapaper and and come back to them. I have some folders in instapaper
1:17:03About some things that you know, hey, this is a weird machine. I can't write about it right now
1:17:07I'll put it in the evergreen folder or I can have a 512 active folder. So if I'm working on
1:17:13Something about the Newton all my new stuff will get saved into that folder for later
1:17:17So I can come back to it and find all in one place, which is nice
1:17:21And then and then I jump in into writing like like you Federico. I don't outline. I don't really draft
1:17:27I kind of know at this point what I'm going to say
1:17:31Kind of the way I'm going to say it the order in which I'm going to talk about things
1:17:34I started to sit down at Ed Byward on the Mac or editorial on my iPad and
1:17:39And just you know go through it. I write in markdown have a lot of text expander stuff happening to make
1:17:45Pulling links in and that sort of stuff faster
1:17:48And so I can just you know take that research to kind of turn through it and and and write my piece and the writing
1:17:55Part is usually much quicker than the research
1:17:58Especially if you know like you Federico research involves videos
1:18:01So if you're watching like like WVDC sessions or like old keynotes, like I can't make an hour-long video go faster
1:18:09Okay, it's going to take about an hour even skipping around
1:18:12So that research time for the history stuff is the bulk of the time spent in an article
1:18:19Well, they're writing it is usually much shorter
1:18:21I'm gonna sit down, you know, get it out, you know proofread it go through it
1:18:27I do have a copy editor I use for big stuff, which is nice and then and then publish and do it all over again
1:18:33It's hurting me to listen to you guys talking about the writing process
1:18:38Mm-hmm, because I'm trying I'm
1:18:41working on a call for a site right now and
1:18:48Struggling I'm really struggling like I know what it's about right like I know what it's about
1:18:56But I just can't I just can't do it
1:18:59Like I'm trying to say the stuff that I'm trying to say and it's really really difficult for me to do it
1:19:06It's it's definitely a skill that some people have and you both have it in abundance
1:19:11And I just really really struggle with it. It drives me mad
1:19:15So obviously I'm not going to about writing so rather than talking about the recording stuff because I think
1:19:23there's not really a lot of interest in. I use Skype Core Recorder and then I
1:19:28put it into Logic. There's not really a lot for me to say there. I wanted
1:19:33to talk about how I prepare for shows because I think that's maybe a little
1:19:37bit more unique to me maybe, I don't know, or at least it unearths a little bit
1:19:41about my thought processes, they're just slightly different. So let's say that
1:19:48say that the show has an idea, right? So every episode requires an idea,
1:19:54whatever it is you want to talk about that week. That could be
1:19:58something that's in the news or it could be like a specific topic or an idea that
1:20:03you want to talk about. Like let's say for example with this show today we had
1:20:08to think up these two different things because there wasn't really anything in
1:20:10the news that we wanted to talk about so much. So like a couple of weeks ago I
1:20:15I suggested maybe talking about news,
1:20:18and we've been pushing it along as we were waiting,
1:20:20but it was just like it was something that was on my mind,
1:20:22'cause I'd just signed up for Nozzle,
1:20:23and I wasn't using RSS anymore.
1:20:25So all of it tends to come in ideas,
1:20:27but as I just mentioned, these ideas aren't necessarily
1:20:30like you have the idea on Monday for the show on Tuesday.
1:20:33I might like have an idea for a show
1:20:36I wanna do at some point down the line.
1:20:38So these tend to get saved in drafts
1:20:40if they're over long term.
1:20:42And I tend to have a note for each show,
1:20:44would be like ideas for connected ideas for upgrade ideas for cortex that kind
1:20:48of thing. That tends to be where that stuff goes. Sometimes they just go into
1:20:52the Google Doc outlines but a lot of the time I save some of that stuff myself in
1:20:57drafts until I flush it out a little bit more into something that's a little bit
1:21:01more meat to it before putting it into or sharing it with my co-host so I know
1:21:06exactly what it is I want to talk about. Show preparation actually lasts for
1:21:12seven days for each show. So for basically the moment that we stop
1:21:16recording I'm already preparing for this week's episode, next week's episode of
1:21:20Connected and that's the same for all of the shows that I do. As soon as I stop
1:21:23the preparation for the next week begins because I save links that people send in
1:21:28as follow-up, make notes for corrections for follow-up and again like start
1:21:32thinking about the ideas again. When people send me links and stuff recently
1:21:37I've noticed that like I'm losing stuff so like people send me something on like
1:21:41Tuesday for upgrade and I forget to add it to the Google document or whatever I
1:21:47just see it online it's like I come reading Twitter I was like oh yeah
1:21:50that's cool and then I don't think to do anything with it so I've started this
1:21:54system recently again of using drafts to append these links using the drafts
1:21:59extension to a specific like upgrade follow-up note in drafts this is
1:22:04something I'm still like fleshing out a little bit but it feels like a pretty
1:22:07good system. I might end up using the Notes app for this when I'm on iOS 9
1:22:11everywhere. It was actually the fact that the Notes app was introduced that made me
1:22:17think to check out this functionality in drafts because I'm not on iOS 9 on my
1:22:22iPhone yet so I don't want to start using Notes everywhere but I'm thinking
1:22:26that maybe Notes will be something that I use although I do like markdown
1:22:29preview. Anyway, so we'll see. I'm not, I'm not, I haven't fully tried out Notes yet
1:22:35but I know that Federico has been using it to some effect.
1:22:39And that was, talking to Federico about the way he's using notes
1:22:41is making me think about using it in drafts.
1:22:43So I have like follow-up notes for a bunch of shows,
1:22:46and I just add things into those notes,
1:22:48and then I can check them and add things in for follow-up later.
1:22:51Or I just add them directly into Google Docs.
1:22:54Like if I'm on my Mac, I usually just add them straight
1:22:56into the Google document for that show,
1:22:59so I could open up the connected one,
1:23:00make a little line above this week's notes,
1:23:03add in some just quick notes until I go in on the morning of the show being
1:23:07recorded and flesh out the outline. So that's typically what I tend to do the
1:23:11morning of. I've got my coffee and I will start doing the outlines for the shows
1:23:16that happen later in the day for me. So this will be cleaning out the document
1:23:21from last week, cleaning out the topics that we covered and the follow-up so
1:23:25that's all gone and then I start taking any notes from drafts off that are already
1:23:29in my Google Doc and outlining them, fleshing out the ideas, adding in my thoughts about
1:23:34follow up, that kind of stuff, creating the actual outline.
1:23:36I look on Twitter, if we have hashtag suggestions for the shows that I do on a bunch of shows,
1:23:41I look for those to put them into the show.
1:23:43I look through my email, because I tend to, when I get an email which is feedback for
1:23:48a show, I just snooze it in mailbox until the morning of the show.
1:23:53Because a lot of the time it's not really, it tends to be follow up and I don't want
1:23:56to be looking at follow up for all of the shows all of the time because that's
1:24:00too much to keep in my brain. So I just move them to the morning of the
1:24:04applicable show and then just start going through them all then. And then
1:24:08this takes me up to like so I've got the document all done and
1:24:12everything that I need to do is taken care of. Sometimes I will then pass over
1:24:16to my co-host and say my stuff's in, have a look at it, flesh it out, add some more
1:24:21stuff if you want to. And then about 10 minutes before we go live, I make sure I have all
1:24:27of the documents I need in front of me, so like the show outline, the sponsor reads,
1:24:31and have all of those in front and all correct. Then I start a new post in our CMS to add
1:24:38links as we record, and that's it. Then the recording begins.
1:24:44So that is my little system.
1:24:46It's quite the workflow.
1:24:49I feel like when I started writing this down, I felt like I was more organized than I believed
1:24:54I was, so that was good.
1:24:56I didn't realize that I had a real system for it, but I do have a system for it.
1:25:02I've been using the Notes app, like you said, it's been very effective for me.
1:25:07I use it to manage the links that we use on virtual.
1:25:13I use it for Mac Stories Weekly.
1:25:15I save all the links there.
1:25:18I have an iOS 9 review folder with all my research and the big reason why I keep using
1:25:25it is that it's just so fast and reliable.
1:25:29I mean, iCloud sync.
1:25:31All my changes are consistently always there and of course it was one of the first apps
1:25:38to support multitasking on the iPad so I could load up the W3C session videos on the video
1:25:46videos app on iOS which I never ever used but now it's been useful to watch
1:25:52videos and take notes at the same time. I'm really excited about notes. It's
1:25:59been a nice upgrade and I'm surprised Myke that you
1:26:06like, you mentioned just in passing the markdown preview. What is it
1:26:11that you like about markdown videos?
1:26:14I just like being able to preview my notes in markdown.
1:26:17I know that sounds a little bit weird, but the other thing is, oh, the other part is
1:26:21that say I've written an outline in markdown.
1:26:24If I go into a markdown preview in drafts and copy that, when I paste it into Google
1:26:29Docs, it maintains the formatting for Google Docs.
1:26:33I had a suspicion there was a copy and paste related benefit for you.
1:26:39Because I know that you go insane if the formatting is not the same in Google Docs.
1:26:45It really annoys you and I understand because it also annoys me when formatting is not properly
1:26:50displayed.
1:26:53So I understand.
1:26:55Very nice, Myke.
1:26:56Yeah, I like my formatting to be all nice and clean and clear and crisp and just right.
1:27:02I like to have the formatting, like if I've sat and done the outline in Markdown with
1:27:08like nested points and stuff like that, you know, like I've got like bullets and nested
1:27:13bullets.
1:27:15The reason I do that is because then when I bring it over into Google Docs, I want it
1:27:19to be the same, right?
1:27:21I want it to maintain all of that.
1:27:23But if, and if it doesn't, then I get a bit annoyed about it.
1:27:28So there you go.
1:27:29That's that.
1:27:30I get to do something a little special and talk about some of our, the ways that we work
1:27:34and some of our thoughts and feelings on our magical 50th episode.
1:27:39And I hope that you've enjoyed it and we'll have our links and everything.
1:27:43There's lots of links today over at relay.fm/connected/50.
1:27:48If you want to find us online, there's a few ways that you can do that.
1:27:50You can find Federico at maxstories.net and he's @vitiaci on Twitter.
1:27:56the
1:28:15Relay.fm. Thanks again to our sponsors this week, Todoist, Igloo and Fracture. Go support
1:28:21them if you want to help support us. Every little helps, it really really does. But most
1:28:26of all, thank you for listening and we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye
1:28:30guys.
1:28:31>> Adios, Erci.
1:28:32>> Adios.
1:28:32Adios.