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The Accidental Tech Podcast

157: As Many People in the Sandbox as Possible

 

00:00:00   the following is the complete list of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/0">TS</a>]

00:00:03   saying states in these United States of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3">TS</a>]

00:00:06   America that require only a real rear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/6">TS</a>]

00:00:08   license plate Alabama Arizona Arkansas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/8">TS</a>]

00:00:10   Delaware Florida Georgia Indiana Kansas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/10">TS</a>]

00:00:12   Kentucky Louisiana Michigan Mississippi [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/12">TS</a>]

00:00:13   New Mexico North Carolina Oklahoma [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/13">TS</a>]

00:00:15   Pennsylvania South Carolina Tennessee [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/15">TS</a>]

00:00:17   and West Virginia you'll notice that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/17">TS</a>]

00:00:18   very nearby states North Carolina [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/18">TS</a>]

00:00:20   Pennsylvania West Virginia all no front [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/20">TS</a>]

00:00:24   license plate frame virginia now out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/24">TS</a>]

00:00:27   curiosity can you think of any other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/27">TS</a>]

00:00:29   criterion for which those would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/29">TS</a>]

00:00:32   listed as the same States not off the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/32">TS</a>]

00:00:35   top of my head so we should i do some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/35">TS</a>]

00:00:38   follow-up and follow ya keep you I Scott [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/38">TS</a>]

00:00:42   I can't believe I just did that I swore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/42">TS</a>]

00:00:44   I'd never do that on a podcast just just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/44">TS</a>]

00:00:46   hated me into it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/46">TS</a>]

00:00:48   I hate everything alright i quit anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/48">TS</a>]

00:00:50   I'm so we had some feedback about my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/50">TS</a>]

00:00:52   ipad tale of woe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/52">TS</a>]

00:00:54   we had a lot of private feedback from my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/54">TS</a>]

00:00:56   curly the once ipad hater now King ipad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/56">TS</a>]

00:01:00   evangelizer I'm i would never said I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/60">TS</a>]

00:01:02   would never classified as a hater he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/62">TS</a>]

00:01:04   more of an ipad in different here and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/64">TS</a>]

00:01:07   that's a word that is made up i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/67">TS</a>]

00:01:09   know maybe he was fairly anti pad for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/69">TS</a>]

00:01:12   while there but anyways he gave me some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/72">TS</a>]

00:01:15   feedback they basically said i didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/75">TS</a>]

00:01:16   know what i was doing and that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/76">TS</a>]

00:01:17   problem which I believe I admitted a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/77">TS</a>]

00:01:20   of people basically said the same thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/80">TS</a>]

00:01:22   and the point you know I was trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/82">TS</a>]

00:01:23   make was hey you know all this stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/83">TS</a>]

00:01:25   comes right out of the box [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/85">TS</a>]

00:01:26   I know s10 and it is not on the ipad i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/86">TS</a>]

00:01:29   accept a lot of people wrote in to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/89">TS</a>]

00:01:31   that you can in fact do a signature on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/91">TS</a>]

00:01:37   PDF on an iOS device and apparently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/97">TS</a>]

00:01:40   there's a toolbox which to me looks like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/100">TS</a>]

00:01:42   a briefcase icon and within there is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/102">TS</a>]

00:01:46   annotations and markup and whatnot and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/106">TS</a>]

00:01:48   within their you can do a signature i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/108">TS</a>]

00:01:50   have not had the chance to try this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/110">TS</a>]

00:01:51   myself but I had plenty of people tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/111">TS</a>]

00:01:54   me about this so I'm taking it as fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/114">TS</a>]

00:01:56   that is the case so that is just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/116">TS</a>]

00:01:59   little bit of follow-up you can indeed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/119">TS</a>]

00:02:00   do the signature on an iOS device did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/120">TS</a>]

00:02:03   you mistake the briefcase icon for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/123">TS</a>]

00:02:05   windows 95 my briefcase he used you say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/125">TS</a>]

00:02:09   that jokingly but I was a heavy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/129">TS</a>]

00:02:10   briefcases our way back and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/130">TS</a>]

00:02:12   because that was about the best way in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/132">TS</a>]

00:02:14   the windows world to do kind of like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/134">TS</a>]

00:02:16   poor man's rsync between your laptop in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/136">TS</a>]

00:02:19   your desktop which is what i was doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/139">TS</a>]

00:02:20   toward the end of college you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/140">TS</a>]

00:02:22   was kind of like the it was like the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/142">TS</a>]

00:02:24   floppy disk stage of evolution towards [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/144">TS</a>]

00:02:26   the dropbox right that was also kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/146">TS</a>]

00:02:28   the hangover of the the desktop metaphor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/148">TS</a>]

00:02:30   they did the drunken orgy that was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/150">TS</a>]

00:02:34   desktop metaphor like Oh folders there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/154">TS</a>]

00:02:37   just like folders that go on file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/157">TS</a>]

00:02:38   cabinets and there's a little trash can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/158">TS</a>]

00:02:40   and so on and so forth and people would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/160">TS</a>]

00:02:41   latch onto that idea that's why the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/161">TS</a>]

00:02:44   Macintosh is easier to use because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/164">TS</a>]

00:02:46   has all these analogies to the real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/166">TS</a>]

00:02:47   world and so people what else is in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/167">TS</a>]

00:02:50   office like carpeting and it's like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/170">TS</a>]

00:02:52   like this windows we already got those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/172">TS</a>]

00:02:54   my carpeting you're exactly you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/174">TS</a>]

00:02:57   and that with the recycle recycle bin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/177">TS</a>]

00:03:00   because it's not like trash because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/180">TS</a>]

00:03:01   we're trendy than that and i guess like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/181">TS</a>]

00:03:03   a blotter maybe I mean magic cap one on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/183">TS</a>]

00:03:05   whole hog that like living rooms and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/185">TS</a>]

00:03:06   ends and operations like briefcase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/186">TS</a>]

00:03:08   briefcase i know briefcase and so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/188">TS</a>]

00:03:10   got a briefcase and windows and but what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/190">TS</a>]

00:03:12   about bob bob is after you go nuts and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/192">TS</a>]

00:03:16   huh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/196">TS</a>]

00:03:17   and this is the vision divisions you see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/197">TS</a>]

00:03:18   in your head bob was like the jumping [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/198">TS</a>]

00:03:21   over the shark and doing the fridge of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/201">TS</a>]

00:03:23   that metaphor is Magic app you should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/203">TS</a>]

00:03:25   look at Magic camp look like it was very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/205">TS</a>]

00:03:27   similar in terms of like making rooms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/207">TS</a>]

00:03:28   the house it became like maniac mansion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/208">TS</a>]

00:03:30   it was like you know Sierra adventure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/210">TS</a>]

00:03:32   where you're going room to room and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/212">TS</a>]

00:03:34   have these little anyway briefcase was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/214">TS</a>]

00:03:36   one of them and Apple itself to the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/216">TS</a>]

00:03:38   type of thing where they got distracted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/218">TS</a>]

00:03:40   for a bit and thought that what made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/220">TS</a>]

00:03:42   computers easy-to-use was specifically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/222">TS</a>]

00:03:44   the connections with your world things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/224">TS</a>]

00:03:47   and not all the other stuff that goes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/227">TS</a>]

00:03:48   along with it now we have everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/228">TS</a>]

00:03:50   flat never would happen it's got fourth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/230">TS</a>]

00:03:53   was still alive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/233">TS</a>]

00:03:54   that's true we still don't have a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/234">TS</a>]

00:03:56   alternative Save icon so and actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/236">TS</a>]

00:03:58   can continue guys a big secret I've been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/238">TS</a>]

00:04:00   holding this in all these years my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/240">TS</a>]

00:04:02   computer at the time was not good enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/242">TS</a>]

00:04:04   to run it but there was one because I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/244">TS</a>]

00:04:06   basically in my pc growing up era I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/246">TS</a>]

00:04:09   spent a lot more time everybody else did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/249">TS</a>]

00:04:11   on Windows 3.1 I did not go to 95 i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/251">TS</a>]

00:04:13   using 3.1 until nineteen ninety-eight I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/253">TS</a>]

00:04:15   went straight 98 the there was a brief [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/255">TS</a>]

00:04:18   time where I went to a friend's house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/258">TS</a>]

00:04:19   and I saw microsoft bobbin on their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/259">TS</a>]

00:04:21   pentium computer because it wouldn't run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/261">TS</a>]

00:04:23   mine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/263">TS</a>]

00:04:24   and I really thought it was the coolest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/264">TS</a>]

00:04:25   thing I've ever seen that is a bold bold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/265">TS</a>]

00:04:29   confession [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/269">TS</a>]

00:04:30   yeah I don't really remember it when i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/270">TS</a>]

00:04:32   was around I was all over windows during [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/272">TS</a>]

00:04:34   this time but I don't really remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/274">TS</a>]

00:04:35   Bob very well at all i don't know if i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/275">TS</a>]

00:04:37   ever saw or maybe I just blocked it from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/277">TS</a>]

00:04:39   my memory but i don't remember it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/279">TS</a>]

00:04:43   I mean it was just it was like a it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/283">TS</a>]

00:04:44   just like a shell that you would launch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/284">TS</a>]

00:04:46   from window they didn't replace that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/286">TS</a>]

00:04:48   shell it was like a sub it was like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/288">TS</a>]

00:04:49   giant app and you would like do things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/289">TS</a>]

00:04:51   inside of Bob and it was so incredibly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/291">TS</a>]

00:04:54   slow and any of this was this was during [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/294">TS</a>]

00:04:55   like that the super dark era of of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/295">TS</a>]

00:04:58   computing where the hard drives were all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/298">TS</a>]

00:05:00   super slow and grinding constantly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/300">TS</a>]

00:05:02   because there was not enough for him to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/302">TS</a>]

00:05:03   do anything and so it was that this was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/303">TS</a>]

00:05:06   like the dark likely mid to late [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/306">TS</a>]

00:05:08   nineties in computing we're just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/308">TS</a>]

00:05:10   everything just the entire side of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/310">TS</a>]

00:05:12   computing for that entire area was hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/312">TS</a>]

00:05:14   drive grinding noises you guys both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/314">TS</a>]

00:05:16   minus the floppy disk grinding error of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/316">TS</a>]

00:05:19   computers where you could tell what your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/319">TS</a>]

00:05:20   computer is doing by the particular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/320">TS</a>]

00:05:21   tones your floppy drive know you say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/321">TS</a>]

00:05:24   that but I was definitely rocking both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/324">TS</a>]

00:05:26   the actual floppy floppy what is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/326">TS</a>]

00:05:29   five and a quarter i always get this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/329">TS</a>]

00:05:30   backwards yes i'm a quarter final [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/330">TS</a>]

00:05:32   quarter three-and-a-half so yes Ida Ida [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/332">TS</a>]

00:05:34   five and a quarter floppy drive in 88 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/334">TS</a>]

00:05:38   that my dad had used years prior and was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/338">TS</a>]

00:05:42   that I'd set up in my room and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/342">TS</a>]

00:05:43   remember I thought I was awesome because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/343">TS</a>]

00:05:45   it had a 10 meg hard drive in and at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/345">TS</a>]

00:05:47   time that was effectively infinite space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/347">TS</a>]

00:05:50   like you'd you couldn't feel it if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/350">TS</a>]

00:05:52   wanted to but yeah I've definitely heard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/352">TS</a>]

00:05:55   that teaching is constantly on now all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/355">TS</a>]

00:05:59   these kids these days that with their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/359">TS</a>]

00:06:00   windows pcs they have the drive letters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/360">TS</a>]

00:06:02   that start with C and they have no idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/362">TS</a>]

00:06:03   why they don't have an A&B drive but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/363">TS</a>]

00:06:05   they should really be as a weeping over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/365">TS</a>]

00:06:06   the fact that they still have drive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/366">TS</a>]

00:06:08   letters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/368">TS</a>]

00:06:08   there's that was hilarious but you got a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/368">TS</a>]

00:06:11   grade on a curve with Windows that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/371">TS</a>]

00:06:13   that's also true i believe this same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/373">TS</a>]

00:06:15   technique hard drive 88 had a the a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/375">TS</a>]

00:06:18   drive i believe is the five and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/378">TS</a>]

00:06:19   quarter almost got that wrong five and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/379">TS</a>]

00:06:21   quarter inch stride and i believe the be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/381">TS</a>]

00:06:23   drive was a three-and-a-half inch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/383">TS</a>]

00:06:25   low-density floppy so that was what like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/385">TS</a>]

00:06:28   750 k or something like that and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/388">TS</a>]

00:06:30   was external i should add which was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/390">TS</a>]

00:06:32   really cool probably scuzzy but anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/392">TS</a>]

00:06:35   the only other thing I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/395">TS</a>]

00:06:37   brings background I to say about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/397">TS</a>]

00:06:39   ipad is a lot of people wrote to say hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/399">TS</a>]

00:06:41   you idiot the ipad has a camera and yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/401">TS</a>]

00:06:43   that's weird why didn't you just use the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/403">TS</a>]

00:06:45   camera to take a picture of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/405">TS</a>]

00:06:46   documents and use any one of these 350 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/406">TS</a>]

00:06:48   different apps that that people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/408">TS</a>]

00:06:50   recommended in order to scan and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/410">TS</a>]

00:06:52   doing mega air quotes here scam the PDF [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/412">TS</a>]

00:06:54   and that is a perfectly valid answer and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/414">TS</a>]

00:06:58   i have one of those apps on my phone and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/418">TS</a>]

00:06:59   on my iPad and it does work surprisingly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/419">TS</a>]

00:07:01   well but why on earth would I do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/421">TS</a>]

00:07:04   when I had a full-on probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/424">TS</a>]

00:07:07   multi-thousand dollar scanning machine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/427">TS</a>]

00:07:09   one of those multifunction printers in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/429">TS</a>]

00:07:12   the office right there ready and waiting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/432">TS</a>]

00:07:13   the fidelity of that scam was going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/433">TS</a>]

00:07:15   be far superior to any yo software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/435">TS</a>]

00:07:18   flattened picture of a piece of paper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/438">TS</a>]

00:07:20   plus there's quite a bit that I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/440">TS</a>]

00:07:21   scanning and want to spend all that time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/441">TS</a>]

00:07:23   doing all that instead I spent all that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/443">TS</a>]

00:07:25   time trying to get it all in the dropbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/445">TS</a>]

00:07:26   there that's better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/446">TS</a>]

00:07:29   yeah that's totally better so nice i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/449">TS</a>]

00:07:31   just wanted to follow up on that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/451">TS</a>]

00:07:33   other thing I wanted to note is we were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/453">TS</a>]

00:07:35   talking last week about bluetooth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/455">TS</a>]

00:07:37   headphones and Bluetooth latency and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/457">TS</a>]

00:07:40   some other miscellaneous things and by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/460">TS</a>]

00:07:43   accident today i noticed something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/463">TS</a>]

00:07:45   completely striking and to back up just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/465">TS</a>]

00:07:47   a half-step you've talked Marco and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/467">TS</a>]

00:07:50   we've talked and I've talked in the past [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/470">TS</a>]

00:07:51   about how I don't really understand why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/471">TS</a>]

00:07:54   everyone gets their they're all up in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/474">TS</a>]

00:07:58   arms about bluetooth latency especially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/478">TS</a>]

00:08:00   when watching video because i never see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/480">TS</a>]

00:08:02   this and as well as we discussed last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/482">TS</a>]

00:08:04   episode i use these like fairly well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/484">TS</a>]

00:08:07   really cheap in fairly crappy bluetooth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/487">TS</a>]

00:08:09   headphones that I love don't get me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/489">TS</a>]

00:08:11   wrong but they're unremarkable in every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/491">TS</a>]

00:08:13   measurable way and i never get this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/493">TS</a>]

00:08:15   video agency that everyone else seems to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/495">TS</a>]

00:08:18   get well today John and tweeted a link [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/498">TS</a>]

00:08:21   to a video with one of the dudes from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/501">TS</a>]

00:08:23   the wire punk window appears so he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/503">TS</a>]

00:08:27   tweeted a link geometry to link up that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/507">TS</a>]

00:08:28   was 10 psi believe you're right Marco [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/508">TS</a>]

00:08:30   talking about it was actually very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/510">TS</a>]

00:08:32   interesting talking about being stopped [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/512">TS</a>]

00:08:33   in real life by police officer and I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/513">TS</a>]

00:08:36   on my work computer and I had click the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/516">TS</a>]

00:08:39   link in my work computer because we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/519">TS</a>]

00:08:42   all in on Google Apps chrome is my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/522">TS</a>]

00:08:44   default browser and this is the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/524">TS</a>]

00:08:45   time that's ever been the case and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/525">TS</a>]

00:08:48   started watching this video and chrome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/528">TS</a>]

00:08:49   and I was like oh my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/529">TS</a>]

00:08:51   goodness this latency is ridiculous it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/531">TS</a>]

00:08:54   terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/534">TS</a>]

00:08:55   we decided yep that's never ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/535">TS</a>]

00:08:58   happened to me before ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/538">TS</a>]

00:09:01   so I copy the link dropped in safari [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/541">TS</a>]

00:09:04   perfect no problems whatsoever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/544">TS</a>]

00:09:06   this is a youtube video i don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/546">TS</a>]

00:09:10   what it is but miles em wrote in when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/550">TS</a>]

00:09:12   tweet tweet about this and said so far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/552">TS</a>]

00:09:14   use the system API to play video but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/554">TS</a>]

00:09:16   chrome reimplement everything itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/556">TS</a>]

00:09:18   down to the media decoders I have no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/558">TS</a>]

00:09:20   idea if that's true or not but i can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/560">TS</a>]

00:09:23   tell you that anecdotally based on one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/563">TS</a>]

00:09:25   video I watched during the day today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/565">TS</a>]

00:09:27   it certainly seemed like that very well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/567">TS</a>]

00:09:29   may be the case and I was stunned by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/569">TS</a>]

00:09:32   fact that it happened be how bad it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/572">TS</a>]

00:09:33   and so I wonder if all these people that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/573">TS</a>]

00:09:35   are whining and moaning about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/575">TS</a>]

00:09:37   bluetooth latency are just chrome users [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/577">TS</a>]

00:09:39   and because of that they they see this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/579">TS</a>]

00:09:43   terrible agency so they're all thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/583">TS</a>]

00:09:44   man i'm crazy how could I not see this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/584">TS</a>]

00:09:46   as at the same time thinking man they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/586">TS</a>]

00:09:48   are crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/588">TS</a>]

00:09:49   why are they seeing this and it turns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/589">TS</a>]

00:09:51   out it's just another reason why you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/591">TS</a>]

00:09:52   shouldn't be using chrome turns out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/592">TS</a>]

00:09:53   everyone is crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/593">TS</a>]

00:09:54   no i mean so that their that you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/594">TS</a>]

00:09:56   exactly right that basically that did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/596">TS</a>]

00:09:58   that there is Bluetooth latency on any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/598">TS</a>]

00:10:01   Bluetooth device there is latency not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/601">TS</a>]

00:10:03   about his airplane airplane is fixed at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/603">TS</a>]

00:10:04   two seconds regardless and that seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/604">TS</a>]

00:10:06   like forever when trying something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/606">TS</a>]

00:10:07   happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/607">TS</a>]

00:10:07   bluetooth is way shorter than that can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/607">TS</a>]

00:10:09   be used in substantially less than a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/609">TS</a>]

00:10:10   second but there is still noticeable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/610">TS</a>]

00:10:12   agency and humans can take latency in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/612">TS</a>]

00:10:14   video where the audio isn't synched up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/614">TS</a>]

00:10:16   properly to like what like watching [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/616">TS</a>]

00:10:18   people's mouths move and they talk we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/618">TS</a>]

00:10:20   can detect very very small isolated and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/620">TS</a>]

00:10:21   just looks wrong to us so it has to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/621">TS</a>]

00:10:23   perfectly when you're watching people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/623">TS</a>]

00:10:25   speak there can't be any any weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/625">TS</a>]

00:10:27   latency between the audio/video Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/627">TS</a>]

00:10:29   knows this so they're in their system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/629">TS</a>]

00:10:31   frameworks for iOS and OS 10 most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/631">TS</a>]

00:10:34   bluetooth headphones they they have some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/634">TS</a>]

00:10:36   way I don't know the details of how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/636">TS</a>]

00:10:38   should they have some way of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/638">TS</a>]

00:10:39   establishing with the headset what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/639">TS</a>]

00:10:41   latency is and then compensating for it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/641">TS</a>]

00:10:43   the downside of this first of all you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/643">TS</a>]

00:10:45   just found one which is that it only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/645">TS</a>]

00:10:47   works in things that use the AV [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/647">TS</a>]

00:10:48   frameworks no downside is that not every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/648">TS</a>]

00:10:51   headphone supports this and so like I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/651">TS</a>]

00:10:53   tested probably five or six sensible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/653">TS</a>]

00:10:55   have fun now and only I think two of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/655">TS</a>]

00:10:57   them actually properly didn't have any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/657">TS</a>]

00:11:00   latency and the the rest all had on his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/660">TS</a>]

00:11:03   rival agency even when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/663">TS</a>]

00:11:04   in the system video player even on ios4 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/664">TS</a>]

00:11:07   you think that would be most commonly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/667">TS</a>]

00:11:08   tested and the other problem is games [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/668">TS</a>]

00:11:12   you know video can account for this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/672">TS</a>]

00:11:15   game's almost always can't and don't and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/675">TS</a>]

00:11:19   so it works fine if you are using your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/679">TS</a>]

00:11:21   headphones to watch a video in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/681">TS</a>]

00:11:24   built-in system API player in something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/684">TS</a>]

00:11:26   that works fine that's probably all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/686">TS</a>]

00:11:28   you've ever done right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/688">TS</a>]

00:11:29   yeah I mean I think so I I can't imagine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/689">TS</a>]

00:11:32   a time other than when i was in chrome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/692">TS</a>]

00:11:34   that I wasn't using just the system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/694">TS</a>]

00:11:35   frameworks right but if it's especially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/695">TS</a>]

00:11:38   problem if you're trying to play games [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/698">TS</a>]

00:11:39   with bluetooth headphones you base it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/699">TS</a>]

00:11:42   basically impossible you basically can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/702">TS</a>]

00:11:44   unless you are just not listening to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/704">TS</a>]

00:11:45   game audio and listen to music or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/705">TS</a>]

00:11:47   something that just always crazy how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/707">TS</a>]

00:11:49   know John any thoughts on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/709">TS</a>]

00:11:50   I just think that I hope that in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/710">TS</a>]

00:11:53   future they will keep improving these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/713">TS</a>]

00:11:55   wireless audio api is to eliminate these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/715">TS</a>]

00:11:58   problems because it's kind of a shame [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/718">TS</a>]

00:12:00   that it requires the deep integration of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/720">TS</a>]

00:12:02   the system API is with all this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/722">TS</a>]

00:12:03   compensation getting everything get it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/723">TS</a>]

00:12:05   crunk should be able to do it correctly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/725">TS</a>]

00:12:06   in other words it shouldn't be such a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/726">TS</a>]

00:12:09   problem so I by I don't know what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/729">TS</a>]

00:12:11   what the limitations are that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/731">TS</a>]

00:12:13   requiring this but I no bluetooth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/733">TS</a>]

00:12:14   continues to evolve and I think it needs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/734">TS</a>]

00:12:16   to continue to evolve because it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/736">TS</a>]

00:12:17   obviously not quite good enough yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/737">TS</a>]

00:12:19   well and you know there's there's to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/739">TS</a>]

00:12:22   some degree there's always going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/742">TS</a>]

00:12:23   some latency inherent in a digital [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/743">TS</a>]

00:12:26   signal being transmitted being accepted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/746">TS</a>]

00:12:29   over wireless network being decoded from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/749">TS</a>]

00:12:31   digital to analog in certain no chunks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/751">TS</a>]

00:12:33   of blocks and as always you know with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/753">TS</a>]

00:12:36   with audio latency you're always having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/756">TS</a>]

00:12:38   this this trade-off if you make the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/758">TS</a>]

00:12:39   latency really short [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/759">TS</a>]

00:12:40   that means you have really short buffers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/760">TS</a>]

00:12:42   on all the sides which means it becomes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/762">TS</a>]

00:12:43   extremely sensitive to cutting out with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/763">TS</a>]

00:12:46   any kind of reception drop or or flaky [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/766">TS</a>]

00:12:49   signal or anything so if you have very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/769">TS</a>]

00:12:51   very low latency it is very fragile or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/771">TS</a>]

00:12:54   if you is if you increase the latency [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/774">TS</a>]

00:12:55   then you have more tolerance for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/775">TS</a>]

00:12:58   weirdness in the signal you can like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/778">TS</a>]

00:12:59   back off a little bit and burst the data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/779">TS</a>]

00:13:01   that you missed before the latency has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/781">TS</a>]

00:13:03   caught up just like the old auntie skip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/783">TS</a>]

00:13:05   things and investment you have you ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/785">TS</a>]

00:13:07   had with the hoods non same thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/787">TS</a>]

00:13:09   there's all these trade-offs and it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/789">TS</a>]

00:13:12   might not be worth it if most people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/792">TS</a>]

00:13:14   fine most of the time or if the or you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/794">TS</a>]

00:13:16   know if I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/796">TS</a>]

00:13:17   which often happens often happens in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/797">TS</a>]

00:13:19   case with technological progress if the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/799">TS</a>]

00:13:21   if the new way of doing things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/801">TS</a>]

00:13:23   does have shortcomings and downsides [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/803">TS</a>]

00:13:25   that people are just ok with because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/805">TS</a>]

00:13:27   upside make it worth it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/807">TS</a>]

00:13:28   like everyone might just decide you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/808">TS</a>]

00:13:30   what I'm fine with just not having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/810">TS</a>]

00:13:32   synced up audio when playing games while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/812">TS</a>]

00:13:35   wearing headphones like people might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/815">TS</a>]

00:13:36   just decide that because it's worth it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/816">TS</a>]

00:13:38   to have all the other benefits of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/818">TS</a>]

00:13:38   wireless headphones so I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/818">TS</a>]

00:13:40   necessarily consider this problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/820">TS</a>]

00:13:41   something that will be solved and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/821">TS</a>]

00:13:44   we'll be starting soon you know don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/824">TS</a>]

00:13:47   worry because apples hard real-time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/827">TS</a>]

00:13:48   operating systems are working on for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/828">TS</a>]

00:13:49   car will solve all these problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/829">TS</a>]

00:13:50   because then you won't have any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/830">TS</a>]

00:13:51   underflow problems on your buffers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/831">TS</a>]

00:13:52   because you've got time slice guarantees [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/832">TS</a>]

00:13:54   and on the that'll solve all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/834">TS</a>]

00:13:56   problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/836">TS</a>]

00:13:57   I mean people always talk about I i I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/837">TS</a>]

00:13:58   saying this is a joke by the way but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/838">TS</a>]

00:14:00   people do talk a lot about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/840">TS</a>]

00:14:01   theoretical you know the the real time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/841">TS</a>]

00:14:05   requirements of any sort of software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/845">TS</a>]

00:14:07   that Apple might be doing in the car and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/847">TS</a>]

00:14:09   I redheads have a hard time believing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/849">TS</a>]

00:14:11   that any software part of the car system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/851">TS</a>]

00:14:16   like it in other words i imagine that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/856">TS</a>]

00:14:19   Apple's going to do the part of the car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/859">TS</a>]

00:14:20   that you would you know but the software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/860">TS</a>]

00:14:22   that you see on the screen in the car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/862">TS</a>]

00:14:24   that you interact with but I always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/864">TS</a>]

00:14:25   imagined that the internal things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/865">TS</a>]

00:14:27   deal with like engine control computers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/867">TS</a>]

00:14:29   will have absolutely no lineage or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/869">TS</a>]

00:14:32   connection to any existing Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/872">TS</a>]

00:14:33   software code base like that it'll just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/873">TS</a>]

00:14:35   be an embedded system that it won't be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/875">TS</a>]

00:14:38   related to iOS that none of that stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/878">TS</a>]

00:14:40   will come to iOS and other stuff from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/880">TS</a>]

00:14:41   iOS go to it there will be an iOS like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/881">TS</a>]

00:14:43   thing for front-end doesn't mean they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/883">TS</a>]

00:14:45   ever make are you know the thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/885">TS</a>]

00:14:46   runs all the dashboard and a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/886">TS</a>]

00:14:48   stuff but the part that runs the engine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/888">TS</a>]

00:14:49   computer and any other stuff I can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/889">TS</a>]

00:14:51   imagine that having any connection with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/891">TS</a>]

00:14:54   the existing basically with Darwin with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/894">TS</a>]

00:14:57   existing a code basement one and we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/897">TS</a>]

00:14:59   we've heard very early and very you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/899">TS</a>]

00:15:02   unreliable but still rumblings that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/902">TS</a>]

00:15:05   indicated that's exactly what they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/905">TS</a>]

00:15:06   doing that that they are working on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/906">TS</a>]

00:15:08   new kernel and a new OS at that might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/908">TS</a>]

00:15:12   possibly use swift for everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/912">TS</a>]

00:15:14   because it's you know that's kind of one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/914">TS</a>]

00:15:16   of the reasons why Swift is so safe and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/916">TS</a>]

00:15:17   everything like that but that could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/917">TS</a>]

00:15:19   still be for the dashboard control like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/919">TS</a>]

00:15:20   I'm saying for you know for the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/920">TS</a>]

00:15:22   preferred the things that have to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/922">TS</a>]

00:15:23   real time oh yeah it because they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/923">TS</a>]

00:15:25   you know the the Darwin colonel is not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/925">TS</a>]

00:15:27   real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/927">TS</a>]

00:15:27   Colonel where you can guarantee i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/927">TS</a>]

00:15:29   they know they have the stuff for trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/929">TS</a>]

00:15:31   to guarantee time slices for audio and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/931">TS</a>]

00:15:33   video or whatever but it's not like hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/933">TS</a>]

00:15:34   real-time like things you put on like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/934">TS</a>]

00:15:36   spacecraft to go to Mars where this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/936">TS</a>]

00:15:39   absolutely positively has to happen it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/939">TS</a>]

00:15:41   just it's very tightly constrained you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/941">TS</a>]

00:15:42   know embedded operating system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/942">TS</a>]

00:15:43   environment was that one really popular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/943">TS</a>]

00:15:45   one when river systems or something I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/945">TS</a>]

00:15:48   don't know the ones on all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/948">TS</a>]

00:15:48   spacecraft and satellites and other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/948">TS</a>]

00:15:50   stuff like that that is a different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/950">TS</a>]

00:15:51   problem domain and I see no reason that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/951">TS</a>]

00:15:53   apple would need to make a single OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/953">TS</a>]

00:15:55   that spans because you never see the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/955">TS</a>]

00:15:56   real-time operating system it just runs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/956">TS</a>]

00:15:58   the machinery under the covers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/958">TS</a>]

00:15:59   apples free to make a swift from top to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/959">TS</a>]

00:16:02   bottom cool UI thing for all the you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/962">TS</a>]

00:16:05   know climate-controlled dashboard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/965">TS</a>]

00:16:07   applications audio system all that other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/967">TS</a>]

00:16:08   stuff which could still also be entirely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/968">TS</a>]

00:16:10   new code base but I still feel like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/970">TS</a>]

00:16:14   that doesn't even need to be real time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/974">TS</a>]

00:16:15   because it just controls the sort of an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/975">TS</a>]

00:16:17   essential functions if its self-driving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/977">TS</a>]

00:16:18   then I don't really know what the hell's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/978">TS</a>]

00:16:20   going on our first sponsor this week is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/980">TS</a>]

00:16:24   backblaze go to backblaze dot-com / ATP [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/984">TS</a>]

00:16:27   for the best online backup I've ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/987">TS</a>]

00:16:29   seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/989">TS</a>]

00:16:30   I've been back with a back plz customer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/990">TS</a>]

00:16:32   for I don't know three four years now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/992">TS</a>]

00:16:34   it's been awhile since this was before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/994">TS</a>]

00:16:36   the sponsored our shows and because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/996">TS</a>]

00:16:38   just I did the research i tried a few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/998">TS</a>]

00:16:40   online backup services out there and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1000">TS</a>]

00:16:43   back plays with my favorite by far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1003">TS</a>]

00:16:44   simple as that so they have over a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1004">TS</a>]

00:16:47   hundred and fifty petabytes of data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1007">TS</a>]

00:16:49   backed up this isn't all for me although [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1009">TS</a>]

00:16:51   a lot of it is but not all hundred [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1011">TS</a>]

00:16:53   petabytes of our mind they had you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1013">TS</a>]

00:16:55   anybody can do this they have over 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1015">TS</a>]

00:16:58   billion files that have been restored to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1018">TS</a>]

00:17:00   their customers so like they've backed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1020">TS</a>]

00:17:02   up way more than 10 million files [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1022">TS</a>]

00:17:03   they've restored 10 million files for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1023">TS</a>]

00:17:05   their customers all this data that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1025">TS</a>]

00:17:07   keep up in their cloud is not in your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1027">TS</a>]

00:17:10   office not in your home so that any kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1030">TS</a>]

00:17:13   of environmental problem that affects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1033">TS</a>]

00:17:14   all the computers in your office or all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1034">TS</a>]

00:17:16   the computers in your home things like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1036">TS</a>]

00:17:18   you know electrical problems fires [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1038">TS</a>]

00:17:20   floods theft if you are back plays [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1040">TS</a>]

00:17:23   customer you know that your data is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1043">TS</a>]

00:17:25   still there is back place still has your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1045">TS</a>]

00:17:27   data and you can get it back it's it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1047">TS</a>]

00:17:29   level of peace of mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1049">TS</a>]

00:17:31   backblaze saves your butt in that case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1051">TS</a>]

00:17:33   it really does it is great it is founded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1053">TS</a>]

00:17:34   by X Apple engineers they respect the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1054">TS</a>]

00:17:36   mac plus they work on windows to as far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1056">TS</a>]

00:17:38   as i know i don't ride but I'm sure yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1058">TS</a>]

00:17:40   says different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1060">TS</a>]

00:17:41   on your mac and pc so they have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1061">TS</a>]

00:17:43   windows up to it if you run that way you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1063">TS</a>]

00:17:45   can put on your c drive but now you're a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1065">TS</a>]

00:17:47   or b drives you don't have those anymore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1067">TS</a>]

00:17:48   a bad place is really easy no add-ons no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1068">TS</a>]

00:17:51   gimmicks no additional charges five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1071">TS</a>]

00:17:53   bucks per month for unlimited space on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1073">TS</a>]

00:17:57   throttled speeds everything you need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1077">TS</a>]

00:17:59   no add-ons no gimmicks five bucks a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1079">TS</a>]

00:18:01   month per computer at backblaze [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1081">TS</a>]

00:18:03   backblaze calm / ATP you need online [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1083">TS</a>]

00:18:06   backup and if you're going to get online [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1086">TS</a>]

00:18:08   backup this is the one I recommend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1088">TS</a>]

00:18:09   thanks a lot of bad place for sponsoring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1089">TS</a>]

00:18:10   our show so back places better the news [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1090">TS</a>]

00:18:13   lately and not just because they sponsor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1093">TS</a>]

00:18:15   this awesome program but because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1095">TS</a>]

00:18:18   had a running with Adobe yes this is we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1098">TS</a>]

00:18:21   all have we all had a run-in with Adobe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1101">TS</a>]

00:18:23   sometimes that happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1103">TS</a>]

00:18:25   whoops so I do not have creative cloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1105">TS</a>]

00:18:28   so just one of you want to fill fill me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1108">TS</a>]

00:18:30   and fill everyone in on what happened i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1110">TS</a>]

00:18:33   just didn't happen to me either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1113">TS</a>]

00:18:34   thankfully but i do have well here's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1114">TS</a>]

00:18:37   thing i have Photoshop cs6 which is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1117">TS</a>]

00:18:39   the last pre creative crowd cloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1119">TS</a>]

00:18:42   version but for reasons all I know why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1122">TS</a>]

00:18:45   I'm saying why does this always systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1125">TS</a>]

00:18:47   anyway even though i have cs6 i still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1127">TS</a>]

00:18:49   have the creative cloud icon in the menu [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1129">TS</a>]

00:18:51   bar because i think i downloaded like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1131">TS</a>]

00:18:53   trial illustrator I might have paid for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1133">TS</a>]

00:18:54   illustrator for a month like illustrator [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1134">TS</a>]

00:18:56   CC like the first version anyway once [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1136">TS</a>]

00:18:59   again because on your system has this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1139">TS</a>]

00:19:00   creative cloud menu thing which like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1140">TS</a>]

00:19:02   tries to update your applications for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1142">TS</a>]

00:19:03   you and do other crap like that it's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1143">TS</a>]

00:19:05   worst [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1145">TS</a>]

00:19:06   yeah and I'm it launches on login and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1146">TS</a>]

00:19:08   you try to get rid of it and comes back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1148">TS</a>]

00:19:10   he just wanna quit like Steam yeah but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1150">TS</a>]

00:19:12   steam does it through the system through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1152">TS</a>]

00:19:14   the system login items and you turn off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1154">TS</a>]

00:19:16   it stays off Creative Cloud just keeps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1156">TS</a>]

00:19:17   coming back like an undead zombie anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1157">TS</a>]

00:19:19   adobe has a history of having let's say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1159">TS</a>]

00:19:24   challenges related to software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1164">TS</a>]

00:19:26   installation and management of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1166">TS</a>]

00:19:29   installations on the mac there I i have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1169">TS</a>]

00:19:31   at various times search for solutions to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1171">TS</a>]

00:19:33   seemingly intractable adobe application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1173">TS</a>]

00:19:35   installation problems infants and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1175">TS</a>]

00:19:36   instructions on adobe's own website not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1176">TS</a>]

00:19:38   in the forums like literal officially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1178">TS</a>]

00:19:40   official adobe instructions that contain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1180">TS</a>]

00:19:42   terrifying like sets of steps that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1182">TS</a>]

00:19:45   have to follow to get yourself out of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1185">TS</a>]

00:19:47   situation in which you're legitimately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1187">TS</a>]

00:19:49   purchase adobe application won't update [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1189">TS</a>]

00:19:50   or something they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1190">TS</a>]

00:19:51   running commands from the shell prompt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1191">TS</a>]

00:19:54   you know sudo RM blah blah it's like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1194">TS</a>]

00:19:57   seriously this is anyway they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1197">TS</a>]

00:19:59   serious challenges and this is another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1199">TS</a>]

00:20:02   one of their challenges [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1202">TS</a>]

00:20:03   apparently they release some software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1203">TS</a>]

00:20:04   and this is all kind of experimental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1204">TS</a>]

00:20:05   determined by back place and you'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1205">TS</a>]

00:20:07   understand my bike place is involved at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1207">TS</a>]

00:20:08   all this in a moment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1208">TS</a>]

00:20:10   it's some piece of software that would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1210">TS</a>]

00:20:13   effectively list the folders the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1213">TS</a>]

00:20:16   directories at the top level of your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1216">TS</a>]

00:20:18   volume and sort them i'm assuming a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1218">TS</a>]

00:20:21   schematically as in like capital letters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1221">TS</a>]

00:20:23   first or whatever but any rate periods [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1223">TS</a>]

00:20:25   and spaces and stuff first pick the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1225">TS</a>]

00:20:27   first one and delete its contents and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1227">TS</a>]

00:20:30   was hoping that first one would be like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1230">TS</a>]

00:20:32   a dot adobe something but depending on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1232">TS</a>]

00:20:36   whether you had a previous installation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1236">TS</a>]

00:20:37   it could be something other than dot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1237">TS</a>]

00:20:39   adobe or space adobe over the hall was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1239">TS</a>]

00:20:41   it could in fact be something called dot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1241">TS</a>]

00:20:44   bz ball which is a back plays hidden [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1244">TS</a>]

00:20:46   directory where it stores a bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1246">TS</a>]

00:20:47   crap that has to do with the operation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1247">TS</a>]

00:20:49   of back place so people were messing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1249">TS</a>]

00:20:51   with this adobe creative cloud update [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1251">TS</a>]

00:20:53   which i'm sure they were all prompted to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1253">TS</a>]

00:20:54   install by the little menu item that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1254">TS</a>]

00:20:56   always runs the people systems and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1256">TS</a>]

00:20:57   would install it and that installer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1257">TS</a>]

00:20:59   would delete the contents of back blazes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1259">TS</a>]

00:21:01   little directory where it stores [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1261">TS</a>]

00:21:03   information about your backups and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1263">TS</a>]

00:21:05   that's pretty antisocial behavior when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1265">TS</a>]

00:21:08   an application not made by you goes and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1268">TS</a>]

00:21:12   deletes all your crap out from under it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1272">TS</a>]

00:21:13   now to black places credit they figured [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1273">TS</a>]

00:21:17   out this problem pretty quickly they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1277">TS</a>]

00:21:18   posted a thing on the side that explains [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1278">TS</a>]

00:21:19   how to solve the situation they reported [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1279">TS</a>]

00:21:21   to adobe and then to adobe's credit will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1281">TS</a>]

00:21:23   be fixed it and pull the updated all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1283">TS</a>]

00:21:25   stuff and we'll link to a blog post in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1285">TS</a>]

00:21:28   the show notes from backways explaining [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1288">TS</a>]

00:21:29   the situation and again we don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1289">TS</a>]

00:21:32   the these particular details back please [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1292">TS</a>]

00:21:34   just has like experimental experimental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1294">TS</a>]

00:21:36   a determined this that and the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1296">TS</a>]

00:21:37   thing what people are doing in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1297">TS</a>]

00:21:39   meantime before these updates was they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1299">TS</a>]

00:21:40   would make a bunch of a series of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1300">TS</a>]

00:21:41   sacrificial folders at the top level of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1301">TS</a>]

00:21:43   their directory like called AAA to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1303">TS</a>]

00:21:46   the dough hook the adobe thing nuke that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1306">TS</a>]

00:21:47   one and not the bz vol.1 but as back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1307">TS</a>]

00:21:50   place points out even if you have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1310">TS</a>]

00:21:52   thing happened to you at no time where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1312">TS</a>]

00:21:55   your actual backplate about backups in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1315">TS</a>]

00:21:57   jeopardy because the backups are all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1317">TS</a>]

00:21:59   server-side back plays this was merely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1319">TS</a>]

00:22:00   setting back the client-side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1320">TS</a>]

00:22:02   installation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1322">TS</a>]

00:22:03   view our backup thing by deleting all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1323">TS</a>]

00:22:05   the information needs to keep track of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1325">TS</a>]

00:22:07   stuff so that players will automatically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1327">TS</a>]

00:22:08   created and I'm assuming you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1328">TS</a>]

00:22:10   grind your desk for a while to figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1330">TS</a>]

00:22:11   out what the hell's would recreate that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1331">TS</a>]

00:22:12   directory but it's good to know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1332">TS</a>]

00:22:15   despite another application coming and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1335">TS</a>]

00:22:17   recursively delete the contents of one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1337">TS</a>]

00:22:19   of its directories your actual backups [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1339">TS</a>]

00:22:21   mean like the data that is starting back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1341">TS</a>]

00:22:22   place the server where are we safe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1342">TS</a>]

00:22:24   during this time we give Apple hard time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1344">TS</a>]

00:22:27   for for software quality issues that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1347">TS</a>]

00:22:29   think they have but we a couple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1349">TS</a>]

00:22:31   people right in to say why don't you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1351">TS</a>]

00:22:33   complain about Adobe just as much and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1353">TS</a>]

00:22:36   and the truth is adobe software is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1356">TS</a>]

00:22:38   typically far worse than apple software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1358">TS</a>]

00:22:40   especially the non-core thing so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1360">TS</a>]

00:22:43   think about like photoshop illustrator [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1363">TS</a>]

00:22:44   these like the core adobe act like their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1364">TS</a>]

00:22:47   core apps as as much as they can be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1367">TS</a>]

00:22:50   weird and flaky as much as people can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1370">TS</a>]

00:22:51   love and hate them so much at the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1371">TS</a>]

00:22:53   time they don't usually have stability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1373">TS</a>]

00:22:56   issues or data loss issues they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1376">TS</a>]

00:22:59   many other issues but those are not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1379">TS</a>]

00:23:00   usually among them so it's not like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1380">TS</a>]

00:23:03   like that the main core apps tend to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1383">TS</a>]

00:23:05   work decently well most of the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1385">TS</a>]

00:23:06   although I can anyone Apple but that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1386">TS</a>]

00:23:10   problem adobe has is all the other like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1390">TS</a>]

00:23:12   supporting crap around them also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1392">TS</a>]

00:23:14   anything related to acrobat but you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1394">TS</a>]

00:23:16   all that all supporting crap around them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1396">TS</a>]

00:23:18   at the installers the the cloud services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1398">TS</a>]

00:23:21   that they use like the behance plugins [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1401">TS</a>]

00:23:23   and all this all this crazy stuff those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1403">TS</a>]

00:23:25   things tend to work very poorly and be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1405">TS</a>]

00:23:28   very inconsistent and the reason why we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1408">TS</a>]

00:23:31   don't usually criticized adobe on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1411">TS</a>]

00:23:32   show is simply because adobe has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1412">TS</a>]

00:23:34   making mediocre software for so long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1414">TS</a>]

00:23:36   that we have no expectations of quality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1416">TS</a>]

00:23:38   from Adobe as sad as that is and then I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1418">TS</a>]

00:23:41   say this as a longtime adobe customer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1421">TS</a>]

00:23:43   and user of multiple products by them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1423">TS</a>]

00:23:45   but the fact is that adobe just has a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1425">TS</a>]

00:23:48   really really bad reputation for this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1428">TS</a>]

00:23:50   stuff and has four years so yeah we just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1430">TS</a>]

00:23:52   don't expect much from them and and when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1432">TS</a>]

00:23:53   things like this happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1433">TS</a>]

00:23:55   it's it's barely even worth mentioning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1435">TS</a>]

00:23:56   because like it just it happened like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1436">TS</a>]

00:23:59   crap with Adobe happens all the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1439">TS</a>]

00:24:00   usually not this bad but like it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1440">TS</a>]

00:24:02   you know it's just one more day using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1442">TS</a>]

00:24:04   adobe stuff for the software doing weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1444">TS</a>]

00:24:06   stuff and not quite installing right or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1446">TS</a>]

00:24:08   creative cloud is doing weird things in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1448">TS</a>]

00:24:10   the menu bar that's just typical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1450">TS</a>]

00:24:11   behavior and as big as adobe is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1451">TS</a>]

00:24:14   obviously like most people use adobe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1454">TS</a>]

00:24:15   software like especially now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1455">TS</a>]

00:24:17   you know os10 PDF rendering built-in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1457">TS</a>]

00:24:19   everything people have no longer have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1459">TS</a>]

00:24:21   reason download acrobat just look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1461">TS</a>]

00:24:23   pdfs if you're not a designer or not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1463">TS</a>]

00:24:26   using one of you know you don't use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1466">TS</a>]

00:24:28   adobe product so much where is everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1468">TS</a>]

00:24:29   is using you know the operating system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1469">TS</a>]

00:24:31   and a lot of the built-in apps that ship [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1471">TS</a>]

00:24:33   with Apple think it was just a much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1473">TS</a>]

00:24:34   bigger surface area for people to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1474">TS</a>]

00:24:37   encounter problems with the with apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1477">TS</a>]

00:24:39   stuff that the reason I want to talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1479">TS</a>]

00:24:41   about this aside from the backways angle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1481">TS</a>]

00:24:43   and it's just coincidence we have that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1483">TS</a>]

00:24:44   back place a sponsoring this episode is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1484">TS</a>]

00:24:47   the sandboxing angle because a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1487">TS</a>]

00:24:50   discussion i saw about this issue was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1490">TS</a>]

00:24:52   see this is why Apple wants mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1492">TS</a>]

00:24:55   applications to be sandbox and sent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1495">TS</a>]

00:24:58   quicksand boxing refresher sandboxing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1498">TS</a>]

00:25:00   basically a way to limit the ability of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1500">TS</a>]

00:25:04   applications to do things so typical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1504">TS</a>]

00:25:07   general-purpose PC or Mac when you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1507">TS</a>]

00:25:09   running an application that application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1509">TS</a>]

00:25:11   can do anything that you could do as as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1511">TS</a>]

00:25:14   a user as and you could delete all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1514">TS</a>]

00:25:16   files in your home directory and so can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1516">TS</a>]

00:25:18   any program that you run you could you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1518">TS</a>]

00:25:20   know rename things remove things like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1520">TS</a>]

00:25:23   just you know sit transmit data over the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1523">TS</a>]

00:25:26   network pull data down from somewhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1526">TS</a>]

00:25:28   anything basically you could do as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1528">TS</a>]

00:25:31   user or a program that you wrote any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1531">TS</a>]

00:25:32   program that you run can do and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1532">TS</a>]

00:25:34   sandboxing does is says that each [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1534">TS</a>]

00:25:37   individual application has to declare [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1537">TS</a>]

00:25:38   what kinds of things it wants to do so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1538">TS</a>]

00:25:42   application might say I need to access [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1542">TS</a>]

00:25:44   the network or maybe I need to access [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1544">TS</a>]

00:25:46   now we can just go to certain sites i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1546">TS</a>]

00:25:48   need accurate access the camera or the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1548">TS</a>]

00:25:49   microphone i need access to the file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1549">TS</a>]

00:25:52   system i need access to just these two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1552">TS</a>]

00:25:54   folders in the file system and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1554">TS</a>]

00:25:56   like that and you can have these sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1556">TS</a>]

00:25:59   permissions all up to level of like hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1559">TS</a>]

00:26:01   I need access to the complete file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1561">TS</a>]

00:26:02   system and historically apple has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1562">TS</a>]

00:26:04   trying to slowly close that door to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1564">TS</a>]

00:26:06   you know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1566">TS</a>]

00:26:07   no application should really have access [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1567">TS</a>]

00:26:09   to the entire file system and if you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1569">TS</a>]

00:26:11   there should be a good reason and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1571">TS</a>]

00:26:13   the whole negotiation with the mac app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1573">TS</a>]

00:26:15   store in San boxing mac applications to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1575">TS</a>]

00:26:17   try to this negotiation backwards be an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1577">TS</a>]

00:26:19   apple and the applications of what they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1579">TS</a>]

00:26:21   call them titles what entitlements is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1581">TS</a>]

00:26:23   your application actually need to do its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1583">TS</a>]

00:26:25   job versus which ones you just want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1585">TS</a>]

00:26:26   have so why is your application they use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1586">TS</a>]

00:26:29   for email acts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1589">TS</a>]

00:26:30   using the camera I and maybe have a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1590">TS</a>]

00:26:32   reason at all if you don't have an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1592">TS</a>]

00:26:34   avatar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1594">TS</a>]

00:26:34   we will take a picture of you and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1594">TS</a>]

00:26:37   use that as your after okay well that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1597">TS</a>]

00:26:39   okay reason why is your email [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1599">TS</a>]

00:26:40   application to access the entire file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1600">TS</a>]

00:26:42   system well we don't really know where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1602">TS</a>]

00:26:44   we're going to add file so we just want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1604">TS</a>]

00:26:45   access to the whole file system and now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1605">TS</a>]

00:26:47   sorry we really want you to pick where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1607">TS</a>]

00:26:48   you're gonna put the files you can put a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1608">TS</a>]

00:26:49   dialog box up and the user can pick when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1609">TS</a>]

00:26:51   you get permission for that directory of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1611">TS</a>]

00:26:52   that directory tree but you don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1612">TS</a>]

00:26:54   access everywhere and as we just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1614">TS</a>]

00:26:57   discussed with adobe stuff as you might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1617">TS</a>]

00:26:58   imagine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1618">TS</a>]

00:26:59   adobe is not in the mac app store adobe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1619">TS</a>]

00:27:01   sells its own software has its own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1621">TS</a>]

00:27:03   subscription service to create a cloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1623">TS</a>]

00:27:04   thing where you can sort of rent your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1624">TS</a>]

00:27:06   software and that will give you updates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1626">TS</a>]

00:27:08   for a certain amount of time and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1628">TS</a>]

00:27:10   not a nightcap story not just because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1630">TS</a>]

00:27:11   they don't want to share three percent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1631">TS</a>]

00:27:13   of the money battle but also because no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1633">TS</a>]

00:27:14   other applications would function is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1634">TS</a>]

00:27:16   sandboxed and so that that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1636">TS</a>]

00:27:20   sandboxing is related to this because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1640">TS</a>]

00:27:21   if their application with sandbox surely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1641">TS</a>]

00:27:23   there updater wouldn't have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1643">TS</a>]

00:27:26   entitlement that allows it gives it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1646">TS</a>]

00:27:27   access to the entire file system that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1647">TS</a>]

00:27:29   the updater would instead like maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1649">TS</a>]

00:27:30   prompt you to find your application or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1650">TS</a>]

00:27:31   something and then the user would give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1651">TS</a>]

00:27:32   information update [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1652">TS</a>]

00:27:34   alrighty offers a Mac App Store updates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1654">TS</a>]

00:27:35   work entirely different anyway because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1655">TS</a>]

00:27:37   it would just be able to update the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1657">TS</a>]

00:27:38   individual apps and their bundles but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1658">TS</a>]

00:27:41   the real issue is alright so sandboxing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1661">TS</a>]

00:27:43   would have saved this but it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1663">TS</a>]

00:27:44   sandboxed so what is sandboxing actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1664">TS</a>]

00:27:47   buying us because if I if you can have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1667">TS</a>]

00:27:50   non sandbox non Mac App Store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1670">TS</a>]

00:27:52   applications does not defeat the purpose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1672">TS</a>]

00:27:55   of sandboxing in other words you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1675">TS</a>]

00:27:56   get everybody to be sandbox it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1676">TS</a>]

00:27:58   matter how great sandboxing us but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1678">TS</a>]

00:27:59   just takes one sandbox application to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1679">TS</a>]

00:28:01   ruin your day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1681">TS</a>]

00:28:02   so what do you guys think about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1682">TS</a>]

00:28:03   sandboxing yay or nay angle on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1683">TS</a>]

00:28:07   whole disaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1687">TS</a>]

00:28:08   I think it's a reasonable angle but part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1688">TS</a>]

00:28:12   of the reason that the mac is so great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1692">TS</a>]

00:28:14   and part of the reason I've been talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1694">TS</a>]

00:28:16   the last couple of episodes about things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1696">TS</a>]

00:28:19   that bother me about iOS is that you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1699">TS</a>]

00:28:21   take things into your own hands in a way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1701">TS</a>]

00:28:23   that you can't with iOS and that's very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1703">TS</a>]

00:28:26   freeing and so I wouldn't I would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1706">TS</a>]

00:28:30   very upset if all software had to go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1710">TS</a>]

00:28:33   through the mac app store or somehow it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1713">TS</a>]

00:28:36   in another way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1716">TS</a>]

00:28:37   all software with sandbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1717">TS</a>]

00:28:39   I don't see that as feasible I do think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1719">TS</a>]

00:28:42   though that software developers should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1722">TS</a>]

00:28:45   be better systems of the ecosystem and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1725">TS</a>]

00:28:49   in 20 allow their software to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1729">TS</a>]

00:28:52   sandboxed wherever possible now I'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1732">TS</a>]

00:28:55   clear can use sand box without being in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1735">TS</a>]

00:28:58   the app store so i could Creative Cloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1738">TS</a>]

00:28:59   still be a third-party third and a third [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1739">TS</a>]

00:29:02   party am an outside of the appstore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1742">TS</a>]

00:29:04   thing and also be sandbox get definitely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1744">TS</a>]

00:29:07   you can do that okay and some people do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1747">TS</a>]

00:29:08   that was one of the discussions like wha [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1748">TS</a>]

00:29:10   why would anyone voluntarily subject [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1750">TS</a>]

00:29:13   their application to the sandbox if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1753">TS</a>]

00:29:14   you're not on the mac app store said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1754">TS</a>]

00:29:15   you're selling an application directly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1755">TS</a>]

00:29:17   why would you go through the trouble of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1757">TS</a>]

00:29:18   sandboxing and part of the reason i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1758">TS</a>]

00:29:20   to protect yourself from your own bug [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1760">TS</a>]

00:29:23   say you have some sort of silly bug or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1763">TS</a>]

00:29:25   not so silly bugger Isis this is an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1765">TS</a>]

00:29:27   itunes spot way back in the day this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1767">TS</a>]

00:29:29   a very common bug for for the mindset of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1769">TS</a>]

00:29:32   the people that tend to write things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1772">TS</a>]

00:29:34   like installers and uninstallers this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1774">TS</a>]

00:29:36   mindset is the assumption that no Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1776">TS</a>]

00:29:38   user know really old-school mac user [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1778">TS</a>]

00:29:40   ever make but that basically everyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1780">TS</a>]

00:29:42   else in the entire computing universe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1782">TS</a>]

00:29:43   except old-school mac user makes an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1783">TS</a>]

00:29:45   assumption is for example file names do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1785">TS</a>]

00:29:48   not contain spaces because who would put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1788">TS</a>]

00:29:50   a space in their file name that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1790">TS</a>]

00:29:51   madness you can have spaces in filenames [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1791">TS</a>]

00:29:52   that the itunes bug was if you had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1792">TS</a>]

00:29:56   space in your file name there was like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1796">TS</a>]

00:29:57   shell script that was just blindly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1797">TS</a>]

00:29:59   taking a string building a path that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1799">TS</a>]

00:30:01   string and then running a command on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1801">TS</a>]

00:30:03   without quoting the string because hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1803">TS</a>]

00:30:04   what if there's a quote in the string [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1804">TS</a>]

00:30:05   who would put a quote in their file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1805">TS</a>]

00:30:07   names mac users would that's right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1807">TS</a>]

00:30:09   okay well these are you single quotes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1809">TS</a>]

00:30:11   who would put a single quote in their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1811">TS</a>]

00:30:12   file names mac users that suit you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1812">TS</a>]

00:30:14   Mac users were trained for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1814">TS</a>]

00:30:16   decade-and-a-half that the file name is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1816">TS</a>]

00:30:19   the users domain you can type whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1819">TS</a>]

00:30:20   the hell you want their will accept what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1820">TS</a>]

00:30:22   is it a colon or comics was the one you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1822">TS</a>]

00:30:24   can use you can get a colon into you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1824">TS</a>]

00:30:26   get something that that it appears as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1826">TS</a>]

00:30:27   colon okay yeah yeah it's colon slash [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1827">TS</a>]

00:30:30   there there are limitations so basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1830">TS</a>]

00:30:32   if i can type it like it you are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1832">TS</a>]

00:30:34   prevented from typing those things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1834">TS</a>]

00:30:35   essentially or you prevented from really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1835">TS</a>]

00:30:37   getting those into the file name but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1837">TS</a>]

00:30:38   bottom line is you would never think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1838">TS</a>]

00:30:39   that because i put a space in my file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1839">TS</a>]

00:30:41   name this would mean like the items when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1841">TS</a>]

00:30:43   I think what if you had a volume called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1843">TS</a>]

00:30:44   fubar and you had I know you had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1844">TS</a>]

00:30:47   volume called foo and then you had a pop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1847">TS</a>]

00:30:50   Pat volume called fubar the thing would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1850">TS</a>]

00:30:52   try to delete fubar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1852">TS</a>]

00:30:54   but after the first space the you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1854">TS</a>]

00:30:55   the RM command would say oh you want me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1855">TS</a>]

00:30:57   to delete volumes food ok I'll go that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1857">TS</a>]

00:30:59   i'll do the loot that ok you also want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1859">TS</a>]

00:31:01   me to leave borrow no no such file and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1861">TS</a>]

00:31:03   you were sad because it just nuclear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1863">TS</a>]

00:31:05   entire directory anyway I'm dealing with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1865">TS</a>]

00:31:07   pads as strings and dealing with path [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1867">TS</a>]

00:31:10   strings in a sloppy way is an epidemic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1870">TS</a>]

00:31:12   in the computing world so that it's very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1872">TS</a>]

00:31:17   it's actually very difficult to get that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1877">TS</a>]

00:31:18   part of the the system right and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1878">TS</a>]

00:31:20   you'd sandbox yourself to say what if I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1880">TS</a>]

00:31:23   make one of those mistakes what if I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1883">TS</a>]

00:31:24   deep in objective-c code and I'm you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1884">TS</a>]

00:31:26   know building you know at any time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1886">TS</a>]

00:31:29   you're shelling out or doing something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1889">TS</a>]

00:31:30   that you think I've built a string and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1890">TS</a>]

00:31:32   this is some NS string that has a file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1892">TS</a>]

00:31:34   path and I'm and then instead of feeding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1894">TS</a>]

00:31:35   it to an objective-c framework that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1895">TS</a>]

00:31:37   would presumably do the right thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1897">TS</a>]

00:31:39   instead you say i'm just going to run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1899">TS</a>]

00:31:41   this external command even if it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1901">TS</a>]

00:31:42   I'm just gonna run as external command [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1902">TS</a>]

00:31:43   converts mark down into HTML and I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1903">TS</a>]

00:31:45   just feed this path and everything will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1905">TS</a>]

00:31:46   be fine i guess you're probably not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1906">TS</a>]

00:31:48   going to nuclear world will probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1908">TS</a>]

00:31:49   just break when someone puts the space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1909">TS</a>]

00:31:50   or you know an exclamation point or a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1910">TS</a>]

00:31:54   single quotes or double quotes depending [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1914">TS</a>]

00:31:55   on how silly you're being about going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1915">TS</a>]

00:31:57   the shelter to these type of things but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1917">TS</a>]

00:31:59   i can tell you someone who writes in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1919">TS</a>]

00:32:01   language is actually very close to shell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1921">TS</a>]

00:32:03   script thing even in languages like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1923">TS</a>]

00:32:06   where you know this is not the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1926">TS</a>]

00:32:09   purpose of languages that make it easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1929">TS</a>]

00:32:10   to run shell commands right to run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1930">TS</a>]

00:32:12   things that you would type of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1932">TS</a>]

00:32:13   terminal don't those languages have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1933">TS</a>]

00:32:14   facilities for doing all this even in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1934">TS</a>]

00:32:16   those languages people just ignore the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1936">TS</a>]

00:32:18   facilities that allow you to essentially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1938">TS</a>]

00:32:19   pass a list so it'll be due pass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1939">TS</a>]

00:32:21   directly to the exact CVP function or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1941">TS</a>]

00:32:23   whatever where you bypass the shell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1943">TS</a>]

00:32:25   entirely you know what the components of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1945">TS</a>]

00:32:28   the command are you know this is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1948">TS</a>]

00:32:29   command you know this is the path you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1949">TS</a>]

00:32:30   know this is the whatever never go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1950">TS</a>]

00:32:32   through the shell and let it try to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1952">TS</a>]

00:32:33   figure out where the boundaries are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1953">TS</a>]

00:32:34   because you will just little you be sad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1954">TS</a>]

00:32:36   and it will end in tears [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1956">TS</a>]

00:32:37   so if you can sandbox your application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1957">TS</a>]

00:32:39   say i'm only gonna ever edit my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1959">TS</a>]

00:32:41   application will only ever modify files [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1961">TS</a>]

00:32:43   in these two directories +1 that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1963">TS</a>]

00:32:44   user picks themselves with the open side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1964">TS</a>]

00:32:46   of dialog box then when you have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1966">TS</a>]

00:32:48   bug your application what function [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1968">TS</a>]

00:32:50   directly but you will not accidentally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1970">TS</a>]

00:32:51   recursively delete their home directory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1971">TS</a>]

00:32:53   their volume their entire documents [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1973">TS</a>]

00:32:55   folder or whatever else so yeah Marco [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1975">TS</a>]

00:32:57   would sandboxes on application and i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1977">TS</a>]

00:32:59   think i would too even though probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1979">TS</a>]

00:33:01   be a giant pain because I think there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1981">TS</a>]

00:33:03   a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1983">TS</a>]

00:33:03   don't that just don't exist anymore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1983">TS</a>]

00:33:05   because they think nobody in the mac app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1985">TS</a>]

00:33:06   store should have therefore people on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1986">TS</a>]

00:33:07   the outside shouldn't either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1987">TS</a>]

00:33:09   I mean that's the main problem with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1989">TS</a>]

00:33:10   sandboxing is is really not the concept [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1990">TS</a>]

00:33:12   it there's two main problems is on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1992">TS</a>]

00:33:15   mac number one is it wasn't always there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1995">TS</a>]

00:33:16   so we have this entire ecosystem of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1996">TS</a>]

00:33:19   softens and built up over decades that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/1999">TS</a>]

00:33:22   it was originally built without the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2002">TS</a>]

00:33:24   concept of sandboxing and then now it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2004">TS</a>]

00:33:26   has to be bolted on and for a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2006">TS</a>]

00:33:27   apps that is either impossible or very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2007">TS</a>]

00:33:29   difficult and then secondly that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2009">TS</a>]

00:33:32   other problem is that Apple just hasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2012">TS</a>]

00:33:34   really been a very good steward of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2014">TS</a>]

00:33:35   taking sandboxing and moving it forward [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2015">TS</a>]

00:33:37   and adding entitlements for things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2017">TS</a>]

00:33:40   really are necessary in the real world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2020">TS</a>]

00:33:41   and as a result the the kind of policy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2021">TS</a>]

00:33:46   by action at least have been doing so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2026">TS</a>]

00:33:47   far is well if you don't want to fit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2027">TS</a>]

00:33:49   into what we want for the mac app store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2029">TS</a>]

00:33:51   we don't want you there at all like we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2031">TS</a>]

00:33:53   don't even want you to use any of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2033">TS</a>]

00:33:54   technology and and I'm sure that's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2034">TS</a>]

00:33:57   what like Craig federighi wants to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2037">TS</a>]

00:33:58   the case but that's what's happening so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2038">TS</a>]

00:34:00   far so hopefully they remember that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2040">TS</a>]

00:34:02   mac exists just long enough to update [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2042">TS</a>]

00:34:04   sandboxing and and give it to make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2044">TS</a>]

00:34:07   more useful because I as both the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2047">TS</a>]

00:34:08   developer and a user i'm a developer at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2048">TS</a>]

00:34:11   least not yet but but I as a user I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2051">TS</a>]

00:34:13   would love for more of my apps to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2053">TS</a>]

00:34:15   sandboxed if Apple wants to advance this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2055">TS</a>]

00:34:17   this the system and this practice of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2057">TS</a>]

00:34:20   being of sandbox after I think they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2060">TS</a>]

00:34:21   should they to make more apps able to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2061">TS</a>]

00:34:24   sandbox in a reasonable way and so I I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2064">TS</a>]

00:34:27   hope there's enough people at Apple who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2067">TS</a>]

00:34:29   agree with that that gets done at some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2069">TS</a>]

00:34:30   point but you as a developer as you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2070">TS</a>]

00:34:33   not only for protecting you know all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2073">TS</a>]

00:34:35   your data from my accidental bugs and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2075">TS</a>]

00:34:38   stuff to go into it i would if i if i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2078">TS</a>]

00:34:40   was making it looks sort of making mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2080">TS</a>]

00:34:42   version overcast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2082">TS</a>]

00:34:43   I'm not but suppose I was please don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2083">TS</a>]

00:34:45   get excited about insurance rkc i know i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2085">TS</a>]

00:34:47   should I i have a guy i had like forever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2087">TS</a>]

00:34:50   ago I'd like a branch that I could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2090">TS</a>]

00:34:51   compile like the data layer to Mac but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2091">TS</a>]

00:34:53   not the not a UI or anything that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2093">TS</a>]

00:34:56   that's the kind of app doesn't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2096">TS</a>]

00:34:58   need deep system access to really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2098">TS</a>]

00:35:00   anything i mean i would need access to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2100">TS</a>]

00:35:02   play audio and that's a and download [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2102">TS</a>]

00:35:05   stuff from the network like that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2105">TS</a>]

00:35:07   that's about it like so i would totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2107">TS</a>]

00:35:09   accept sandboxing I wouldn't want the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2109">TS</a>]

00:35:11   responsibility of messing with your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2111">TS</a>]

00:35:13   system or messing with other apps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2113">TS</a>]

00:35:15   accidentally or having my at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2115">TS</a>]

00:35:17   well to be hacked and have some kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2117">TS</a>]

00:35:19   remote injection if you a webpage you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2119">TS</a>]

00:35:20   know weird stuff like that like I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2120">TS</a>]

00:35:22   we're beyond most of that was like web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2122">TS</a>]

00:35:24   stuff these days but still you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2124">TS</a>]

00:35:26   would be nice to just like eliminate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2126">TS</a>]

00:35:28   sources of budget you to me it's like as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2128">TS</a>]

00:35:30   a developer would i opted into memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2130">TS</a>]

00:35:33   protection of course i would like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2133">TS</a>]

00:35:35   one of those things where if what you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2135">TS</a>]

00:35:37   doing can fit within those restrictions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2137">TS</a>]

00:35:39   you should adopt them just because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2139">TS</a>]

00:35:41   will help it will help you not only make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2141">TS</a>]

00:35:43   better software but ensure more secure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2143">TS</a>]

00:35:45   software as as time goes on as people to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2145">TS</a>]

00:35:48   try to hack it or as you make mistakes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2148">TS</a>]

00:35:49   so of course I would opt into that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2149">TS</a>]

00:35:52   iOS i'm very glad it's there because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2152">TS</a>]

00:35:53   there's no these whole classes of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2153">TS</a>]

00:35:56   where like if I gotta support thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2156">TS</a>]

00:35:58   says oh whenever i launched overcast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2158">TS</a>]

00:36:01   facebook crashes that's not my problem i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2161">TS</a>]

00:36:04   can't do anything about that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2164">TS</a>]

00:36:05   and in a way that's kind of frustrating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2165">TS</a>]

00:36:07   community have to tell people sorry i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2167">TS</a>]

00:36:09   can't really help but also i can say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2169">TS</a>]

00:36:11   well I sorry it's out of my control and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2171">TS</a>]

00:36:14   it's probably everything I'm doing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2174">TS</a>]

00:36:15   know so there are lots of advantages to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2175">TS</a>]

00:36:18   sandboxing for developers and users as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2178">TS</a>]

00:36:20   long as the system either indicates of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2180">TS</a>]

00:36:22   iOS that's always been there or in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2182">TS</a>]

00:36:24   case of the mac hopefully it gets better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2184">TS</a>]

00:36:26   enough that people more more apps can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2186">TS</a>]

00:36:29   adopt it so that leaves me the question [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2189">TS</a>]

00:36:31   like the this whole sandboxing an Adobe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2191">TS</a>]

00:36:34   bug thing of like apples responsibility [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2194">TS</a>]

00:36:37   as a platform or not responsibility [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2197">TS</a>]

00:36:38   apples apples goals as the platform [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2198">TS</a>]

00:36:40   owner is too i think it should be to try [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2200">TS</a>]

00:36:44   to get as many people into the sandbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2204">TS</a>]

00:36:47   on the mac as possible and they've been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2207">TS</a>]

00:36:49   trying to do that like they did the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2209">TS</a>]

00:36:50   important first step was they themselves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2210">TS</a>]

00:36:52   sandbox a ton of the background demons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2212">TS</a>]

00:36:54   that were on your mac so they like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2214">TS</a>]

00:36:56   thing that does like name lookups and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2216">TS</a>]

00:36:57   stuff can't doesn't have complete access [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2217">TS</a>]

00:36:59   to the file system just to make them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2219">TS</a>]

00:37:01   less of a vector for exploitation in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2221">TS</a>]

00:37:04   terms of malware can do a buffer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2224">TS</a>]

00:37:05   overflow and like the name lookup system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2225">TS</a>]

00:37:08   it does it can't write an arbitrary file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2228">TS</a>]

00:37:10   to anywhere in the file system because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2230">TS</a>]

00:37:11   that thing is still a sandbox a sandbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2231">TS</a>]

00:37:13   a lot of their own things sandbox a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2233">TS</a>]

00:37:15   of the OS they tried to send back some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2235">TS</a>]

00:37:16   of their applications and of course they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2236">TS</a>]

00:37:18   eventually restricted the mac app store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2238">TS</a>]

00:37:20   to it which heard a lot of applications [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2240">TS</a>]

00:37:22   but at this point that the the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2242">TS</a>]

00:37:25   area of trying to get more things in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2245">TS</a>]

00:37:27   sandboxes saying are you an important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2247">TS</a>]

00:37:30   pop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2250">TS</a>]

00:37:30   other application that a lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2250">TS</a>]

00:37:31   use and you're not using a sandbox and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2251">TS</a>]

00:37:34   they're like that should be the focus of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2254">TS</a>]

00:37:36   all their efforts out why are you not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2256">TS</a>]

00:37:37   using the sandbox what can we do to help [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2257">TS</a>]

00:37:39   you get in the sandbox yes even for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2259">TS</a>]

00:37:41   companies like Adobe that will probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2261">TS</a>]

00:37:42   never be in the mac app store for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2262">TS</a>]

00:37:43   financial reasons in terms of profit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2263">TS</a>]

00:37:45   sharing with Apple they should still be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2265">TS</a>]

00:37:47   saying adobe we understand you're never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2267">TS</a>]

00:37:49   gonna have a 30-percent we understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2269">TS</a>]

00:37:50   you have your own subscription service [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2270">TS</a>]

00:37:52   your own weird thing going on there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2272">TS</a>]

00:37:53   that's fine but we would still like all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2273">TS</a>]

00:37:56   of your applications including your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2276">TS</a>]

00:37:58   installers and everything to be in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2278">TS</a>]

00:38:00   sandbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2280">TS</a>]

00:38:01   what do we have to do to get you into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2281">TS</a>]

00:38:02   the sandbox today like car dealership [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2282">TS</a>]

00:38:05   that you know they need to be out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2285">TS</a>]

00:38:07   trying to get butts in the seats just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2287">TS</a>]

00:38:11   mixing my analogies now on the sandbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2291">TS</a>]

00:38:13   and if that means making variants of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2293">TS</a>]

00:38:16   sandbox that are entirely different than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2296">TS</a>]

00:38:19   whatever be a lot of the mac app store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2299">TS</a>]

00:38:20   that would still be a benefit to both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2300">TS</a>]

00:38:22   Apple and users right so that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2302">TS</a>]

00:38:24   trying to be ideologically pure and say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2304">TS</a>]

00:38:26   if you can't fit within the sandbox as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2306">TS</a>]

00:38:28   we define it just fine it like ideally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2308">TS</a>]

00:38:31   for these isolated applications like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2311">TS</a>]

00:38:33   they are in iOS that tough luck you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2313">TS</a>]

00:38:34   can't use it at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2314">TS</a>]

00:38:35   you know or if we say you know don't we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2315">TS</a>]

00:38:37   could be maybe apples telling you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2317">TS</a>]

00:38:38   but you could be the sandbox now but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2318">TS</a>]

00:38:40   you're not nobody's like yeah we see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2320">TS</a>]

00:38:42   kind of what the upside might be for you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2322">TS</a>]

00:38:44   apple and for users but it just seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2324">TS</a>]

00:38:46   like a lot of work and even there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2326">TS</a>]

00:38:47   real technical limitations we could do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2327">TS</a>]

00:38:49   it today we don't want to and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2329">TS</a>]

00:38:51   kind of you know Apple what Apple's job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2331">TS</a>]

00:38:53   is to try to convince adobe to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2333">TS</a>]

00:38:55   essentially spend money time and effort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2335">TS</a>]

00:38:58   to get into the sandbox and so if I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2338">TS</a>]

00:39:01   apple i would say i would have had these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2341">TS</a>]

00:39:04   efforts ongoing and be when this bug it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2344">TS</a>]

00:39:05   would be like trying to nicely say to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2345">TS</a>]

00:39:08   Adobe you know depending on the current [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2348">TS</a>]

00:39:10   situation is I don't know it could be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2350">TS</a>]

00:39:11   that it will be can't get in the sandbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2351">TS</a>]

00:39:12   right now at all but if they can be and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2352">TS</a>]

00:39:14   they just refuse to because it takes too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2354">TS</a>]

00:39:16   much effort I will be gently pressing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2356">TS</a>]

00:39:18   them to say see if you would if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2358">TS</a>]

00:39:20   would sandbox your applications you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2360">TS</a>]

00:39:22   could avoid this bug that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2362">TS</a>]

00:39:24   embarrassing for you and bad for our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2364">TS</a>]

00:39:25   users [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2365">TS</a>]

00:39:26   what can we do to help can we send [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2366">TS</a>]

00:39:28   engineers out there can we help you like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2368">TS</a>]

00:39:29   and not everyone gets this treatment but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2369">TS</a>]

00:39:31   it will be even though a lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2371">TS</a>]

00:39:32   don't use it enough people use it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2372">TS</a>]

00:39:34   apple still thinks creative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2374">TS</a>]

00:39:35   professionals an important market for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2375">TS</a>]

00:39:36   them you know anyway that's my hope for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2376">TS</a>]

00:39:38   the future for sandboxing that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2378">TS</a>]

00:39:41   actually becomes more broadly useful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2381">TS</a>]

00:39:43   because it's unrealistic like Casey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2383">TS</a>]

00:39:45   pointed out to you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2385">TS</a>]

00:39:47   counterproductive to try to get every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2387">TS</a>]

00:39:49   single application to the marrow sandbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2389">TS</a>]

00:39:51   has defined the mac app store but it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2391">TS</a>]

00:39:53   good for everybody involved in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2393">TS</a>]

00:39:55   sandbox can expand and get more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2395">TS</a>]

00:39:57   participants in it it's just as I become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2397">TS</a>]

00:40:00   an older and older developer in person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2400">TS</a>]

00:40:03   I feel like I've learned more and more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2403">TS</a>]

00:40:08   usually the hard way to protect against [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2408">TS</a>]

00:40:10   myself and this is the same thing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2410">TS</a>]

00:40:11   guys are saying earlier and so as you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2411">TS</a>]

00:40:13   get older you you go even further than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2413">TS</a>]

00:40:17   you think necessary to prevent yourself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2417">TS</a>]

00:40:20   from being an idiot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2420">TS</a>]

00:40:22   at least that's the way I am and i just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2422">TS</a>]

00:40:25   it seems the responsible thing to do app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2425">TS</a>]

00:40:29   store or not to sandbox your app if at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2429">TS</a>]

00:40:32   all possible and yes sometimes it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2432">TS</a>]

00:40:34   friggin nightmare i am quite sure but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2434">TS</a>]

00:40:36   it's the responsible thing to do and in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2436">TS</a>]

00:40:38   its really unfortunate that adobe didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2438">TS</a>]

00:40:41   and hasn't done that yet our second spot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2441">TS</a>]

00:40:44   to this week is a responsible company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2444">TS</a>]

00:40:46   its hover hover is the best way to buy a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2446">TS</a>]

00:40:49   managed domain names go to hover com use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2449">TS</a>]

00:40:51   promo code bridges to burn Casey for ten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2451">TS</a>]

00:40:54   percent off your first purchase when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2454">TS</a>]

00:40:57   have a great idea you want a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2457">TS</a>]

00:40:58   domain name that's catchy and memorable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2458">TS</a>]

00:40:59   however give you exactly what you need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2459">TS</a>]

00:41:01   to find the perfect domain name for your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2461">TS</a>]

00:41:02   idea so you can get started actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2462">TS</a>]

00:41:04   working on it never gives you easy to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2464">TS</a>]

00:41:06   use powerful tools to buy and manage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2466">TS</a>]

00:41:08   domains anybody can do it and if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2468">TS</a>]

00:41:10   ever need any help they have amazing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2470">TS</a>]

00:41:12   support and all you have you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2472">TS</a>]

00:41:13   regular email like everybody else but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2473">TS</a>]

00:41:15   they have no wait no hold no transfer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2475">TS</a>]

00:41:18   phone support so when you call a real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2478">TS</a>]

00:41:20   live human being is ready to help they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2480">TS</a>]

00:41:22   just pick up the phone there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2482">TS</a>]

00:41:23   weights no holds and no transfers now in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2483">TS</a>]

00:41:26   less than five minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2486">TS</a>]

00:41:27   find domain you can get it up and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2487">TS</a>]

00:41:28   running and hover all you gotta do is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2488">TS</a>]

00:41:30   search for a few keywords and they will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2490">TS</a>]

00:41:31   show you what is available from all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2491">TS</a>]

00:41:34   crazy TLD that are out there and believe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2494">TS</a>]

00:41:35   me there are some crazy ones out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2495">TS</a>]

00:41:37   these days if you register domain name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2497">TS</a>]

00:41:39   anywhere else you probably didn't enjoy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2499">TS</a>]

00:41:41   the experience very much because domain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2501">TS</a>]

00:41:43   name registration is notorious for being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2503">TS</a>]

00:41:45   just very confusing on these very hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2505">TS</a>]

00:41:47   to use sites often times you feel kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2507">TS</a>]

00:41:49   of cheated her or railroaded into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2509">TS</a>]

00:41:51   getting about to add ons that you didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2511">TS</a>]

00:41:52   really necessarily need or you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2512">TS</a>]

00:41:54   really fully understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2514">TS</a>]

00:41:55   however is not like that at all however [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2515">TS</a>]

00:41:57   respect you get respect the user they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2517">TS</a>]

00:41:59   have a nice clean design everything is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2519">TS</a>]

00:42:02   fast and responsive on their site and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2522">TS</a>]

00:42:04   buying things could not be easier they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2524">TS</a>]

00:42:07   don't try to upsell you with crazy stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2527">TS</a>]

00:42:09   or so you anything you don't need they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2529">TS</a>]

00:42:11   even include a bunch of stuff for free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2531">TS</a>]

00:42:12   like who is privacy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2532">TS</a>]

00:42:13   however also has email solutions twenty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2533">TS</a>]

00:42:16   bucks a year to a fully functional email [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2536">TS</a>]

00:42:17   account with 10 gigs of storage 29 bucks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2537">TS</a>]

00:42:20   a year into the big mailbox which is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2540">TS</a>]

00:42:21   terabyte of storage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2541">TS</a>]

00:42:23   check it out today hovered calm and use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2543">TS</a>]

00:42:26   promo code bridges to burn for ten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2546">TS</a>]

00:42:28   percent off your first purchase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2548">TS</a>]

00:42:30   thank you very much to her alright so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2550">TS</a>]

00:42:32   there was a very interesting episode of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2552">TS</a>]

00:42:36   the talk show this past week Tom DQ and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2556">TS</a>]

00:42:39   Craig federighi were on the talk show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2559">TS</a>]

00:42:41   and this is the third incarnation of an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2561">TS</a>]

00:42:45   apple executive on the talk shows that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2565">TS</a>]

00:42:46   correct yeah a factory second appearance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2566">TS</a>]

00:42:48   either he's already had two groups [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2568">TS</a>]

00:42:50   already getting multiple appearances of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2570">TS</a>]

00:42:52   apple executives shows you see the new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2572">TS</a>]

00:42:54   malts and you never know when he can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2574">TS</a>]

00:42:56   get anybody else he calls a seafood and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2576">TS</a>]

00:42:58   eq to come down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2578">TS</a>]

00:42:59   yeah yeah totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2579">TS</a>]

00:43:02   so anyway so they got on the talk shows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2582">TS</a>]

00:43:06   a great episode which is unsurprising [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2586">TS</a>]

00:43:08   why why do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2588">TS</a>]

00:43:11   yeah that's my first question is why are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2591">TS</a>]

00:43:14   because the out as we made a joke that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2594">TS</a>]

00:43:16   group called them up and bring them on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2596">TS</a>]

00:43:18   sometimes that happens like I don't you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2598">TS</a>]

00:43:19   know it i don't i'm not privy to any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2599">TS</a>]

00:43:20   inside information about who calls who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2600">TS</a>]

00:43:22   but the question is it regardless of who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2602">TS</a>]

00:43:25   asked you to be on when why it do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2605">TS</a>]

00:43:28   why does Applewhite apple executives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2608">TS</a>]

00:43:30   agree to come on a podcast at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2610">TS</a>]

00:43:33   particular time when Craig federighi [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2613">TS</a>]

00:43:35   came on episode that I was actually on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2615">TS</a>]

00:43:38   the sort of commentary portion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2618">TS</a>]

00:43:40   afterwards [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2620">TS</a>]

00:43:41   clearly he was there to talk about Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2621">TS</a>]

00:43:43   open source projects because that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2623">TS</a>]

00:43:44   that's what it came on the show to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2624">TS</a>]

00:43:45   that's what he talked about that it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2625">TS</a>]

00:43:47   happened right when swift one open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2627">TS</a>]

00:43:49   source we talked about in the show they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2629">TS</a>]

00:43:50   talked about on the talk show and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2630">TS</a>]

00:43:52   that was clear and in this case there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2632">TS</a>]

00:43:54   no as far as I'm aware there's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2634">TS</a>]

00:43:56   really any big apple announcement I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2636">TS</a>]

00:43:58   I guess there's a 9.3 beta but that is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2638">TS</a>]

00:44:00   not particularly fresh news and so this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2640">TS</a>]

00:44:03   is my assumption going in when I saw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2643">TS</a>]

00:44:05   these were the guests was that they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2645">TS</a>]

00:44:07   going to talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2647">TS</a>]

00:44:07   Walt Mossberg article because that's I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2647">TS</a>]

00:44:10   guess big news but I mean that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2650">TS</a>]

00:44:13   real question is not why is Apple having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2653">TS</a>]

00:44:16   a executives like you know talk to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2656">TS</a>]

00:44:18   websites as they did about Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2658">TS</a>]

00:44:20   open-sourcing or go on podcast and stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2660">TS</a>]

00:44:21   like that because that's all about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2661">TS</a>]

00:44:22   whole new open apple thing but it still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2662">TS</a>]

00:44:24   seems like there has to be a reason and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2664">TS</a>]

00:44:26   having listened to the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2666">TS</a>]

00:44:28   it's still not entirely clear to me like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2668">TS</a>]

00:44:31   what what they were there to do like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2671">TS</a>]

00:44:35   when you know when the celebrities on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2675">TS</a>]

00:44:37   talk show on television talk show the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2677">TS</a>]

00:44:38   better about the movie that's that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2678">TS</a>]

00:44:39   opening this weekend that they're in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2679">TS</a>]

00:44:41   right or whatever you know and the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2681">TS</a>]

00:44:42   thing with a swift open-source like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2682">TS</a>]

00:44:43   you're there to promote something your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2683">TS</a>]

00:44:44   company's doing and then at the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2684">TS</a>]

00:44:45   time you know a good host of course as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2685">TS</a>]

00:44:47   some other questions as well but i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2687">TS</a>]

00:44:49   assuming even after listening to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2689">TS</a>]

00:44:51   episode that probably the reason they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2691">TS</a>]

00:44:53   were there was to talk about the walt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2693">TS</a>]

00:44:55   mossberg article but i'm not entirely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2695">TS</a>]

00:44:56   sure what was your sense from listen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2696">TS</a>]

00:44:58   the episode that basically that same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2698">TS</a>]

00:45:01   thing I mean it was you know III also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2701">TS</a>]

00:45:03   assumed that there be more kind of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2703">TS</a>]

00:45:05   direct addressing of that but you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2705">TS</a>]

00:45:08   you have like I mean as we know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2708">TS</a>]

00:45:10   three people talking and you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2710">TS</a>]

00:45:13   only a 45-minute interview you know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2713">TS</a>]

00:45:15   you brought the formalities like there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2715">TS</a>]

00:45:17   not a whole lot of time for like actual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2717">TS</a>]

00:45:18   in-depth discussion when you have three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2718">TS</a>]

00:45:20   people who want to talk as we know is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2720">TS</a>]

00:45:22   that's why our show is never 45 minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2722">TS</a>]

00:45:24   long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2724">TS</a>]

00:45:24   you're lucky to have us one segment be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2724">TS</a>]

00:45:27   45 minutes on one topic that's show's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2727">TS</a>]

00:45:29   logo is it never 45 minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2729">TS</a>]

00:45:30   yes let's get started and so you know i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2730">TS</a>]

00:45:35   think a lot of just time but but i also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2735">TS</a>]

00:45:36   think you know this is Apple PR were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2736">TS</a>]

00:45:38   talking about and even these are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2738">TS</a>]

00:45:39   executives coming on a talk show with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2739">TS</a>]

00:45:41   our friend John and you know in a kind a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2741">TS</a>]

00:45:43   more casual environment this is still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2743">TS</a>]

00:45:45   high power executives from the biggest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2745">TS</a>]

00:45:48   technology company in the universe etc [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2748">TS</a>]

00:45:50   with very strong PR strategy and NPR [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2750">TS</a>]

00:45:55   control you know like these are people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2755">TS</a>]

00:45:57   who are going to go off just off the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2757">TS</a>]

00:45:58   deep end like have a couple doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2758">TS</a>]

00:46:00   something on the show and tell us all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2760">TS</a>]

00:46:01   the secrets like that's not that is what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2761">TS</a>]

00:46:02   this is you know this is in part it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2762">TS</a>]

00:46:05   probably to help humanize that there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2765">TS</a>]

00:46:07   people at this company not just robots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2767">TS</a>]

00:46:09   in a brick wall like it's actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2769">TS</a>]

00:46:10   humans doing the best they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2770">TS</a>]

00:46:12   it's to humanize them and also i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2772">TS</a>]

00:46:15   it was really about this discussion of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2775">TS</a>]

00:46:17   of software and service quality it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2777">TS</a>]

00:46:20   it was very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2780">TS</a>]

00:46:21   obvious that they were prepared with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2781">TS</a>]

00:46:24   stats and and you know various like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2784">TS</a>]

00:46:26   author authorized figures they were able [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2786">TS</a>]

00:46:28   to give out about how well they're doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2788">TS</a>]

00:46:29   how well their quality is going the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2789">TS</a>]

00:46:32   crash rates that number of Apple music [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2792">TS</a>]

00:46:34   subscribers how well the websites and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2794">TS</a>]

00:46:36   the web services hold up under all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2796">TS</a>]

00:46:38   loads know they were very clearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2798">TS</a>]

00:46:40   prepared with like PR proved stats they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2800">TS</a>]

00:46:44   could share to demonstrate that we don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2804">TS</a>]

00:46:47   really have these big quality problems / [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2807">TS</a>]

00:46:49   we have good reasons to have quality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2809">TS</a>]

00:46:51   problems like it was kind of like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2811">TS</a>]

00:46:52   slightly defensive but not like in like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2812">TS</a>]

00:46:56   a really aggressive way and it was it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2816">TS</a>]

00:46:59   was basically it see it read to me or it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2819">TS</a>]

00:47:03   listen to me and it has to be it it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2823">TS</a>]

00:47:07   listened a little defensive use red [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2827">TS</a>]

00:47:09   looking up its electric definition I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2829">TS</a>]

00:47:10   know but yeah it it seemed slightly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2830">TS</a>]

00:47:14   defensive but mostly just like almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2834">TS</a>]

00:47:17   almost in denial that there are any real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2837">TS</a>]

00:47:21   like you know downward slopes going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2841">TS</a>]

00:47:23   here and and that might be true from a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2843">TS</a>]

00:47:26   lot of things they talked about i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2846">TS</a>]

00:47:27   their web services are at ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2847">TS</a>]

00:47:30   scale and and they are mostly working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2850">TS</a>]

00:47:32   most of the time and they do have tons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2852">TS</a>]

00:47:35   of people using it but the the only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2855">TS</a>]

00:47:37   nitpicks I i had with it really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2857">TS</a>]

00:47:39   besides I wish it could be longer but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2859">TS</a>]

00:47:41   understand why i probably couldn't be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2861">TS</a>]

00:47:42   seen I don't think you can get to high [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2862">TS</a>]

00:47:45   power apple executives to give you like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2865">TS</a>]

00:47:47   three hours of rest as much as we would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2867">TS</a>]

00:47:50   like them to but but you know i might my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2870">TS</a>]

00:47:53   main it picks with it were basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2873">TS</a>]

00:47:55   that there really wasn't enough time to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2875">TS</a>]

00:47:58   to kind of fight back a little bit order [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2878">TS</a>]

00:48:01   to ask a lot of the things a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2881">TS</a>]

00:48:03   their defenses were using excuses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2883">TS</a>]

00:48:06   they're totally within apples control to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2886">TS</a>]

00:48:08   change so for instance that the biggest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2888">TS</a>]

00:48:10   one stuck out to me was when Craig [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2890">TS</a>]

00:48:14   federighi was a no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2894">TS</a>]

00:48:16   overall I thought both Craig and Randy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2896">TS</a>]

00:48:17   came off very well but but Craig it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2897">TS</a>]

00:48:20   during during one party was saying how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2900">TS</a>]

00:48:23   like people like snow leopard back in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2903">TS</a>]

00:48:25   the day but nobody ever really installed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2905">TS</a>]

00:48:26   snow leopard you know 10.6 points 0 and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2906">TS</a>]

00:48:30   most of the time people are spending on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2910">TS</a>]

00:48:31   like 10 points 6.4 template 6.5 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2911">TS</a>]

00:48:34   etc and so he's basically saying like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2914">TS</a>]

00:48:36   you know back then they had way fewer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2916">TS</a>]

00:48:38   total users and also people wait longer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2918">TS</a>]

00:48:40   before upgrade to the newest stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2920">TS</a>]

00:48:43   well very heavily promoted very heavily [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2923">TS</a>]

00:48:46   pushed off an automatic software updates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2926">TS</a>]

00:48:48   are with an apple control Apple has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2928">TS</a>]

00:48:51   themselves very aggressively pushed OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2931">TS</a>]

00:48:53   updates every release since then and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2933">TS</a>]

00:48:56   they use these to even be paid that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2936">TS</a>]

00:48:58   I think the first one that was thirty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2938">TS</a>]

00:49:00   bucks something like that the name of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2940">TS</a>]

00:49:02   that I've been free after that but like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2942">TS</a>]

00:49:03   so back then they were paid and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2943">TS</a>]

00:49:05   were a bigger deal and also most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2945">TS</a>]

00:49:07   critically didn't come out every year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2947">TS</a>]

00:49:09   you know back then did the release cycle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2949">TS</a>]

00:49:12   is more like every two years and I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2952">TS</a>]

00:49:14   know the exact target exactly average [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2954">TS</a>]

00:49:15   you to write reviews of outlook but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2955">TS</a>]

00:49:18   know it you know back then we we had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2958">TS</a>]

00:49:20   these longer cycles and of course you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2960">TS</a>]

00:49:23   know the product for simpler because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2963">TS</a>]

00:49:24   they were doing less and there is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2964">TS</a>]

00:49:26   valid point to be made that we now live [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2966">TS</a>]

00:49:28   in a way more complicated computing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2968">TS</a>]

00:49:30   environment we have so many more devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2970">TS</a>]

00:49:32   that are doing so many more things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2972">TS</a>]

00:49:33   interact with so many more services but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2973">TS</a>]

00:49:35   then the argument that that Apple is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2975">TS</a>]

00:49:38   somehow or rather the argument that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2978">TS</a>]

00:49:40   can excuse more flaws today because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2980">TS</a>]

00:49:44   everyone upgrades really fast the latest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2984">TS</a>]

00:49:45   OS today I don't think is a valid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2985">TS</a>]

00:49:47   defense because Apple is the one pushing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2987">TS</a>]

00:49:50   the updates that frequently and also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2990">TS</a>]

00:49:52   apple is the one who nowadays the OS is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2992">TS</a>]

00:49:55   never even get to like a point five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2995">TS</a>]

00:49:58   point sexually anymore like the u.s. is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/2998">TS</a>]

00:50:00   now they're changed every year with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3000">TS</a>]

00:50:03   major releases and major releases kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3003">TS</a>]

00:50:05   of allowed to be a little bit less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3005">TS</a>]

00:50:06   stable and so you now it feels like we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3006">TS</a>]

00:50:09   are not reaching the states that we used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3009">TS</a>]

00:50:10   to reach for half the release cycle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3010">TS</a>]

00:50:12   where things were pretty stable and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3012">TS</a>]

00:50:14   can update from like you know leopard to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3014">TS</a>]

00:50:16   10.6 point for and be relatively sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3016">TS</a>]

00:50:20   that all they worked it all out by now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3020">TS</a>]

00:50:21   now it seems like they don't have time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3021">TS</a>]

00:50:23   to work it all out anymore and that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3023">TS</a>]

00:50:25   entirely an apple created construct [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3025">TS</a>]

00:50:28   apple has created these conditions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3028">TS</a>]

00:50:30   apples the one pushing these conditions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3030">TS</a>]

00:50:31   at it's totally within apples control to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3031">TS</a>]

00:50:33   not heavily push the updates when it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3033">TS</a>]

00:50:36   still 2.02 not do updates every year if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3036">TS</a>]

00:50:40   they don't want to for something like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3040">TS</a>]

00:50:41   the mac which is not hiding high-profile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3041">TS</a>]

00:50:43   this is totally with annapolis control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3043">TS</a>]

00:50:45   to to fix or two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3045">TS</a>]

00:50:47   you make better to improve and so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3047">TS</a>]

00:50:51   is not about defense before I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3051">TS</a>]

00:50:53   pick up some of the things they said as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3053">TS</a>]

00:50:54   well and and the format but i also want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3054">TS</a>]

00:50:56   to hear but I'm going somewhere with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3056">TS</a>]

00:50:58   this why were they on the show thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3058">TS</a>]

00:51:00   I'm here Casey has the same impression [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3060">TS</a>]

00:51:02   that they were on to talk about software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3062">TS</a>]

00:51:03   quality or if you thought they were on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3063">TS</a>]

00:51:05   for some other reason or if they're on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3065">TS</a>]

00:51:07   for no reason i think most simply it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3067">TS</a>]

00:51:10   about software quality but I agreed that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3070">TS</a>]

00:51:13   it was a more meandering less focused [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3073">TS</a>]

00:51:17   appearance then I would have expected if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3077">TS</a>]

00:51:19   they were if they were doing damage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3079">TS</a>]

00:51:21   control and i'm not sure if that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3081">TS</a>]

00:51:23   deliberate if this meandering and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3083">TS</a>]

00:51:26   kind of casual conversation was was to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3086">TS</a>]

00:51:29   lead us to believe that it wasn't damage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3089">TS</a>]

00:51:31   control that it was just because and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3091">TS</a>]

00:51:34   they just felt like talking to Gruber [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3094">TS</a>]

00:51:35   but i would say that worry not for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3095">TS</a>]

00:51:39   Walt's article and clearly this podcast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3099">TS</a>]

00:51:41   and I don't think that uh I don't see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3101">TS</a>]

00:51:44   why they would have felt the need to go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3104">TS</a>]

00:51:46   on John show and i don't mean that as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3106">TS</a>]

00:51:47   slight 22 gruber at all i just it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3107">TS</a>]

00:51:51   not a normal thing for one let alone two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3111">TS</a>]

00:51:55   executives to just decide to go on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3115">TS</a>]

00:51:57   podcast so i think it was about damage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3117">TS</a>]

00:51:59   control but I think whether or not it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3119">TS</a>]

00:52:02   was deliberate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3122">TS</a>]

00:52:03   it was loose enough to so that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3123">TS</a>]

00:52:06   couldn't say it was explicitly about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3126">TS</a>]

00:52:08   damage control it and I'm leading up to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3128">TS</a>]

00:52:11   Marco's points here so bear with me bite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3131">TS</a>]

00:52:12   by related question this is what is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3132">TS</a>]

00:52:16   job of insert whatever Craig's title [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3136">TS</a>]

00:52:19   insurance or whatever his title is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3139">TS</a>]

00:52:21   senior vice-president software whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3141">TS</a>]

00:52:23   like what is their job what if you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3143">TS</a>]

00:52:25   to look at the job description if they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3145">TS</a>]

00:52:26   were hiring a new one if you know with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3146">TS</a>]

00:52:28   Greg retires and they want to hire a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3148">TS</a>]

00:52:29   replacement they don't want to promote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3149">TS</a>]

00:52:31   from within whatever like what what is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3151">TS</a>]

00:52:33   the job description of those executives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3153">TS</a>]

00:52:35   and i can tell you in the Steve Jobs era [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3155">TS</a>]

00:52:37   the job description for all those super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3157">TS</a>]

00:52:39   important guys you know head of all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3159">TS</a>]

00:52:42   OS 10 you know Bergeron survey or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3162">TS</a>]

00:52:43   whatever or like get a spearhead of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3163">TS</a>]

00:52:46   iOS team or whatever that nowhere in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3166">TS</a>]

00:52:48   that job description was be the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3168">TS</a>]

00:52:51   mouthpiece for Apple I talked to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3171">TS</a>]

00:52:54   public in a way that moves public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3174">TS</a>]

00:52:58   opinion in the direction that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3178">TS</a>]

00:52:59   wants to move it was just add [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3179">TS</a>]

00:53:01   absolutely not in any of their job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3181">TS</a>]

00:53:03   descriptions because they never talk to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3183">TS</a>]

00:53:04   the press they weren't allowed to talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3184">TS</a>]

00:53:06   to the press they barely talk to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3186">TS</a>]

00:53:07   developers like that there was not in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3187">TS</a>]

00:53:10   the end it's different than many other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3190">TS</a>]

00:53:12   companies lots of other companies you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3192">TS</a>]

00:53:13   could say oh well once you reach a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3193">TS</a>]

00:53:15   certain level on the executive latter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3195">TS</a>]

00:53:17   part of your job is to talk to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3197">TS</a>]

00:53:19   public in some way right now mediated by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3199">TS</a>]

00:53:21   the PR department so on and so forth but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3201">TS</a>]

00:53:23   that because you become a public figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3203">TS</a>]

00:53:25   that occasionally says things with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3205">TS</a>]

00:53:28   blessing of the cooperation in an effort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3208">TS</a>]

00:53:31   to to change public opinion or to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3211">TS</a>]

00:53:36   your message out there or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3216">TS</a>]

00:53:37   there's not a lot of those people like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3217">TS</a>]

00:53:38   everybody in the company is the voice of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3218">TS</a>]

00:53:40   the company but now in the post jobs are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3220">TS</a>]

00:53:43   in the more open apple which we all like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3223">TS</a>]

00:53:45   clearly some of these people at a high [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3225">TS</a>]

00:53:48   enough level are now tasked with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3228">TS</a>]

00:53:51   essentially or eat asking themselves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3231">TS</a>]

00:53:52   with that we don't know how puts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3232">TS</a>]

00:53:53   motivating whatever but they are being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3233">TS</a>]

00:53:55   allowed that the company Apple is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3235">TS</a>]

00:53:57   as a company has decided we're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3237">TS</a>]

00:54:00   send Craig federighi to 17 different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3240">TS</a>]

00:54:02   websites and the talkshow to tell them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3242">TS</a>]

00:54:04   about the Swift open source project [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3244">TS</a>]

00:54:06   we're not just gonna have a press [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3246">TS</a>]

00:54:07   release [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3247">TS</a>]

00:54:08   we're not just going to have someone say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3248">TS</a>]

00:54:09   something in the keynote we're not just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3249">TS</a>]

00:54:11   going to issue official statements to PR [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3251">TS</a>]

00:54:13   channels we're going to send this person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3253">TS</a>]

00:54:16   whose job up to this point did not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3256">TS</a>]

00:54:18   really involve a lot of public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3258">TS</a>]

00:54:20   statements about things he's going to go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3260">TS</a>]

00:54:22   out there and promote the Swift open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3262">TS</a>]

00:54:24   source project and try to hit the points [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3264">TS</a>]

00:54:26   that we've all agreed that are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3266">TS</a>]

00:54:28   bullet points and like marcasite little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3268">TS</a>]

00:54:29   sheet of whatever stats you want to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3269">TS</a>]

00:54:30   whatever facts you want to get out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3270">TS</a>]

00:54:32   like basically doing the job of PR but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3272">TS</a>]

00:54:35   now there's a human doing and so now you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3275">TS</a>]

00:54:37   have these two guys at Eddie and Craig [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3277">TS</a>]

00:54:39   coming on a very casual type of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3279">TS</a>]

00:54:42   situation where they are talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3282">TS</a>]

00:54:44   unfiltered it's not real time it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3284">TS</a>]

00:54:46   live but it's very you know just kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3286">TS</a>]

00:54:49   like we're gonna talk and we're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3289">TS</a>]

00:54:51   discuss things and the reason i asked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3291">TS</a>]

00:54:54   about this is as in what the job is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3294">TS</a>]

00:54:57   that scale being able to being able to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3297">TS</a>]

00:55:01   go somewhere in an atmosphere like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3301">TS</a>]

00:55:04   and hit the points that you want to hit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3304">TS</a>]

00:55:05   and not sound defensive and move public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3305">TS</a>]

00:55:09   opinion and not saying it not make any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3309">TS</a>]

00:55:13   missteps that's not easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3313">TS</a>]

00:55:14   thing to do not that I'm saying you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3314">TS</a>]

00:55:16   don't remember bad if they're much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3316">TS</a>]

00:55:17   better than you know I would ever be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3317">TS</a>]

00:55:18   like they're very skilled at their jobs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3318">TS</a>]

00:55:20   but the job starting is not included [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3320">TS</a>]

00:55:21   this and when i listen to that episode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3321">TS</a>]

00:55:24   I'm thinking some of these things as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3324">TS</a>]

00:55:26   market one that were clearly written now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3326">TS</a>]

00:55:27   like that you know that these are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3327">TS</a>]

00:55:29   points that we're going to hit about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3329">TS</a>]

00:55:30   reliability and blah blah you you you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3330">TS</a>]

00:55:33   might think that Apple is like Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3333">TS</a>]

00:55:35   knows all and controls also every single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3335">TS</a>]

00:55:37   thing that was said of that program was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3337">TS</a>]

00:55:38   clearly playing at a time when Eddy Cue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3338">TS</a>]

00:55:40   said that there's going to be a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3340">TS</a>]

00:55:41   version of the apple TV remote app for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3341">TS</a>]

00:55:44   the iphone that includes all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3344">TS</a>]

00:55:45   functionality the remote then you'll be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3345">TS</a>]

00:55:47   able to play games value that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3347">TS</a>]

00:55:48   information was already out there and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3348">TS</a>]

00:55:49   grouper just didn't have to know about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3349">TS</a>]

00:55:50   it or was intentionally broken on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3350">TS</a>]

00:55:52   talk show that they said you're allowed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3352">TS</a>]

00:55:54   to discuss this but I think there's also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3354">TS</a>]

00:55:56   a possibility that Eddy Cue had just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3356">TS</a>]

00:55:58   forgotten what that which things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3358">TS</a>]

00:56:00   Republican which things from Todd and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3360">TS</a>]

00:56:02   head accidentally officially confirmed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3362">TS</a>]

00:56:04   the updated version of the apple remote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3364">TS</a>]

00:56:07   application maybe every developer nah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3367">TS</a>]

00:56:08   man I don't keep up guys it's not a it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3368">TS</a>]

00:56:10   not a story or whatever that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3370">TS</a>]

00:56:11   published by the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3371">TS</a>]

00:56:12   all right well anyway that type of thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3372">TS</a>]

00:56:14   where is our are all apple executives so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3374">TS</a>]

00:56:20   well-trained PR despite having never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3380">TS</a>]

00:56:22   done it as part of their job description [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3382">TS</a>]

00:56:23   that it is impossible for them to make a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3383">TS</a>]

00:56:25   mistake and i think it is possible for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3385">TS</a>]

00:56:28   them to make a mistake and I think every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3388">TS</a>]

00:56:30   time the apple executives go into an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3390">TS</a>]

00:56:32   atmosphere like this it is a risk from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3392">TS</a>]

00:56:34   the old world perspective of apple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3394">TS</a>]

00:56:36   like but what if they accidentally say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3396">TS</a>]

00:56:38   something I'm not supposed to say I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3398">TS</a>]

00:56:39   again PR person is probably involved the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3399">TS</a>]

00:56:41   show could be edited it's not live so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3401">TS</a>]

00:56:42   and so far it's not that big of a risk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3402">TS</a>]

00:56:44   but it is entirely different like if I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3404">TS</a>]

00:56:47   was in these jobs will be like I've been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3407">TS</a>]

00:56:49   working here for X number of years and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3409">TS</a>]

00:56:50   never had to do this is part of my job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3410">TS</a>]

00:56:51   and now it's like it's like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3411">TS</a>]

00:56:53   high-pressure situation where you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3413">TS</a>]

00:56:55   like you are supposed to speak for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3415">TS</a>]

00:56:57   company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3417">TS</a>]

00:56:58   don't make any mistakes and by the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3418">TS</a>]

00:56:59   this is part of your job now and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3419">TS</a>]

00:57:01   time something goes wrong we send you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3421">TS</a>]

00:57:03   out do it even if they you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3423">TS</a>]

00:57:04   technically don't say anything they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3424">TS</a>]

00:57:06   not supposed to say or whatever as Mark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3426">TS</a>]

00:57:08   pointed out it doesn't mean that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3428">TS</a>]

00:57:10   are going to be able to present the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3430">TS</a>]

00:57:11   information in a way that moves public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3431">TS</a>]

00:57:13   opinion in the direction that they want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3433">TS</a>]

00:57:15   so for example if they sound very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3435">TS</a>]

00:57:17   defensive and don't give convincing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3437">TS</a>]

00:57:18   reasons that make things worse instead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3438">TS</a>]

00:57:21   of better reinforcing our worst notions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3441">TS</a>]

00:57:23   or whatever about what was going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3443">TS</a>]

00:57:25   inside apple or if they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3445">TS</a>]

00:57:27   uh or if they pointed they don't address [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3447">TS</a>]

00:57:29   particular point to say i had been an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3449">TS</a>]

00:57:31   aggressive interview and they were being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3451">TS</a>]

00:57:32   pressed they could have looked better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3452">TS</a>]

00:57:33   you know what I like that there's so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3453">TS</a>]

00:57:35   many dangers and just it's weird for me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3455">TS</a>]

00:57:37   to think about its reform you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3457">TS</a>]

00:57:39   about this ever being part of the job of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3459">TS</a>]

00:57:41   someone who started their career as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3461">TS</a>]

00:57:42   programmer and it was a very technical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3462">TS</a>]

00:57:43   person and is now asked to do this thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3463">TS</a>]

00:57:47   yeah i mean and i think a part of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3467">TS</a>]

00:57:49   part of the risk evaluation here is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3469">TS</a>]

00:57:52   they they aren't sending pretty much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3472">TS</a>]

00:57:54   anybody ever and if they do somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3474">TS</a>]

00:57:56   it's like Tim Cook to general purpose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3476">TS</a>]

00:57:59   interviewers out in like the the regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3479">TS</a>]

00:58:02   media you know they're sending these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3482">TS</a>]

00:58:04   people to john cooper they know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3484">TS</a>]

00:58:06   he's like a respectable guy who gets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3486">TS</a>]

00:58:08   Apple very well and was a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3488">TS</a>]

00:58:10   relationship with apple like that that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3490">TS</a>]

00:58:12   not an accident that they're giving him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3492">TS</a>]

00:58:14   the dis access that nobody else really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3494">TS</a>]

00:58:17   gets or the very few people get because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3497">TS</a>]

00:58:19   they know that he's not gonna like be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3499">TS</a>]

00:58:21   all like sensational on them and be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3501">TS</a>]

00:58:23   super aggressive her or just spend the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3503">TS</a>]

00:58:25   whole 45 minutes asking like about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3505">TS</a>]

00:58:27   future iphone which they which they will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3507">TS</a>]

00:58:29   never talk about like you know certainly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3509">TS</a>]

00:58:31   it is still a risk to go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3511">TS</a>]

00:58:32   unscrew these mostly unscripted I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3512">TS</a>]

00:58:34   even like you know when he had filled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3514">TS</a>]

00:58:35   the BBC like that was even more because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3515">TS</a>]

00:58:37   that was like that was live in front of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3517">TS</a>]

00:58:39   a few hundred people and broadcast the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3519">TS</a>]

00:58:41   internet to a few more than 3,000 more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3521">TS</a>]

00:58:42   least you know so he is I feel like Phil [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3522">TS</a>]

00:58:44   is actually good at that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3524">TS</a>]

00:58:45   I got that it's always so he's been in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3525">TS</a>]

00:58:46   marketing so like I think that has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3526">TS</a>]

00:58:48   part of his job description even he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3528">TS</a>]

00:58:50   not speaking for the company he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3530">TS</a>]

00:58:51   essentially was telling people what to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3531">TS</a>]

00:58:53   say on behalf of the company as part of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3533">TS</a>]

00:58:55   his role as the chief of marketing so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3535">TS</a>]

00:58:57   yeah you're right is much harder like in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3537">TS</a>]

00:58:59   front of a live audience where you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3539">TS</a>]

00:59:02   take back anything there's no editing or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3542">TS</a>]

00:59:03   anything like that but Phil I I feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3543">TS</a>]

00:59:05   like it's an old hand at this and has no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3545">TS</a>]

00:59:07   problem whereas particularly Craig [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3547">TS</a>]

00:59:09   always strikes me as a technical person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3549">TS</a>]

00:59:11   who has had this role thrust upon him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3551">TS</a>]

00:59:14   he's been thrust onto the stage keynotes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3554">TS</a>]

00:59:16   and he's gotten really good at that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3556">TS</a>]

00:59:18   now he's just going off the cuff and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3558">TS</a>]

00:59:20   know kind of the same thing with Eddie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3560">TS</a>]

00:59:21   where you didn't see a lot of him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3561">TS</a>]

00:59:23   onstage until recent years right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3563">TS</a>]

00:59:25   maybe that's just part of his ascent in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3565">TS</a>]

00:59:27   the organization but having that be part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3567">TS</a>]

00:59:29   of your job and like and I'm saying that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3569">TS</a>]

00:59:31   not as if I think like it's a bad thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3571">TS</a>]

00:59:33   that like oh this is like a danger and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3573">TS</a>]

00:59:36   apple should cut it out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3576">TS</a>]

00:59:37   merely that this new open apple that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3577">TS</a>]

00:59:40   all like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3580">TS</a>]

00:59:41   this is part of what comes with it part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3581">TS</a>]

00:59:42   of it comes to understanding on both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3582">TS</a>]

00:59:44   sides of the fence that being more open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3584">TS</a>]

00:59:45   means that human beings are going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3585">TS</a>]

00:59:47   come out and be open and if they say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3587">TS</a>]

00:59:50   things wrong or whatever you can't hold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3590">TS</a>]

00:59:52   them to the same standards as we help be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3592">TS</a>]

00:59:54   carefully controlled manicured PR [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3594">TS</a>]

00:59:57   presence of the old Apple because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3597">TS</a>]

00:59:59   can't you can't have it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3599">TS</a>]

00:59:59   can't you can't have it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3599">TS</a>]

01:00:00   both ways were like we wanted to be more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3600">TS</a>]

01:00:01   open but you want every single thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3601">TS</a>]

01:00:02   that every person has to be perfect all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3602">TS</a>]

01:00:04   the time right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3604">TS</a>]

01:00:05   you have to the more you're open the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3605">TS</a>]

01:00:08   more we all in this sort of dialogue is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3608">TS</a>]

01:00:09   you know customer and company have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3609">TS</a>]

01:00:12   become comfortable with the idea that in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3612">TS</a>]

01:00:14   an open dialogue it's not as clean and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3614">TS</a>]

01:00:17   shiny and perfect and so if they sound a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3617">TS</a>]

01:00:19   little bit defensive it's because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3619">TS</a>]

01:00:20   they're human beings and they're being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3620">TS</a>]

01:00:21   asked questions that they might feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3621">TS</a>]

01:00:23   defensive about and you can't do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3623">TS</a>]

01:00:25   know excoriate them for being the humans [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3625">TS</a>]

01:00:27   that we always wish they were so I'm I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3627">TS</a>]

01:00:29   i want to be clear on trying to do is I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3629">TS</a>]

01:00:31   want to encourage more of this and i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3631">TS</a>]

01:00:33   almost kind of sad that they didn't make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3633">TS</a>]

01:00:34   any you know big but blunders because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3634">TS</a>]

01:00:37   think if they did I think it would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3637">TS</a>]

01:00:38   fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3638">TS</a>]

01:00:39   well but I think you're right that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3639">TS</a>]

01:00:41   would be fine however Apple wouldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3641">TS</a>]

01:00:43   think it would be fine and so if they if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3643">TS</a>]

01:00:45   they had made any big blunders it would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3645">TS</a>]

01:00:47   greatly reduce the chances of us getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3647">TS</a>]

01:00:49   more access to them in the future like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3649">TS</a>]

01:00:51   this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3651">TS</a>]

01:00:52   what I'm trying to say to encourage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3652">TS</a>]

01:00:53   Apple basically say at least I am and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3653">TS</a>]

01:00:57   think we all should be just more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3657">TS</a>]

01:00:58   forgiving so that they can they can feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3658">TS</a>]

01:01:00   safe doing this because we want a more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3660">TS</a>]

01:01:02   open dialogue and I think if anyone in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3662">TS</a>]

01:01:06   sort of the apple tech press decides to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3666">TS</a>]

01:01:08   jump on these times just gonna scare [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3668">TS</a>]

01:01:09   them back into their holes so let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3669">TS</a>]

01:01:11   let's let's be nice but yeah but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3671">TS</a>]

01:01:14   know we can be nice and we can be civil [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3674">TS</a>]

01:01:16   and we can still disagree with things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3676">TS</a>]

01:01:18   they say or you can criticize you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3678">TS</a>]

01:01:20   things they say in normal civil ways you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3680">TS</a>]

01:01:22   know and so I don't think I'm not saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3682">TS</a>]

01:01:24   like I don't think you're saying that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3684">TS</a>]

01:01:26   should take it easy on the necessarily [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3686">TS</a>]

01:01:28   just that we should you know be civil [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3688">TS</a>]

01:01:31   and reasonable and not not like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3691">TS</a>]

01:01:34   kind of given the benefit of the doubt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3694">TS</a>]

01:01:35   if they'd like misspeak slightly or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3695">TS</a>]

01:01:37   something is I would really is roughly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3697">TS</a>]

01:01:39   what you're saying yeah and as for like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3699">TS</a>]

01:01:41   your specific points about lightning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3701">TS</a>]

01:01:42   that you're right it was a short [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3702">TS</a>]

01:01:43   interview that was a lot of time to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3703">TS</a>]

01:01:44   into things and as I said when Craig was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3704">TS</a>]

01:01:47   on they're not going to go into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3707">TS</a>]

01:01:49   level of detail that we go into about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3709">TS</a>]

01:01:50   these things that's not the forum for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3710">TS</a>]

01:01:52   it's not as if it like that that's part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3712">TS</a>]

01:01:55   of what you know what is their job and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3715">TS</a>]

01:01:56   also what is the purpose of a podcast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3716">TS</a>]

01:01:59   like this when you have these executives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3719">TS</a>]

01:02:00   there it that is not the time to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3720">TS</a>]

01:02:02   harangue them about whatever your pet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3722">TS</a>]

01:02:06   problem is you're not going to affect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3726">TS</a>]

01:02:07   the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3727">TS</a>]

01:02:10   you know the design apple's macintosh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3730">TS</a>]

01:02:12   application design philosophy that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3732">TS</a>]

01:02:14   leaves begin to a bar side you are not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3734">TS</a>]

01:02:16   going to change that philosophy by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3736">TS</a>]

01:02:17   arguing with Gregg federighi about it on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3737">TS</a>]

01:02:20   a podcast right you're not going to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3740">TS</a>]

01:02:22   him to say yeah you're right it sucks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3742">TS</a>]

01:02:23   like that like you like you are going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3743">TS</a>]

01:02:25   get a DQ to say yeah itunes is horrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3745">TS</a>]

01:02:27   and the itunes store infrastructure is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3747">TS</a>]

01:02:29   just the worst but hold on i mean he did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3749">TS</a>]

01:02:32   admit that like itunes challenges [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3752">TS</a>]

01:02:33   whatever the whole point is like you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3753">TS</a>]

01:02:34   not going to like that's it there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3754">TS</a>]

01:02:37   time and place for that in this writ [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3757">TS</a>]

01:02:38   small that I think we're all at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3758">TS</a>]

01:02:40   point familiar with is that if you go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3760">TS</a>]

01:02:42   WWDC and you find the one guy who writes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3762">TS</a>]

01:02:45   the obscure framework their application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3765">TS</a>]

01:02:46   is using you could possibly convince him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3766">TS</a>]

01:02:49   one-on-one to change this parameter in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3769">TS</a>]

01:02:51   this API to do this thing in the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3771">TS</a>]

01:02:53   major version that can actually happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3773">TS</a>]

01:02:55   right that is the level of individuals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3775">TS</a>]

01:02:58   ability to talk to other individuals as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3778">TS</a>]

01:03:01   humans but it's not in public that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3781">TS</a>]

01:03:04   person who commits will never admit that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3784">TS</a>]

01:03:05   they talk to you and it's like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3785">TS</a>]

01:03:07   parameter an API call right you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3787">TS</a>]

01:03:09   it's very different than you know trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3789">TS</a>]

01:03:12   to convince the you know flying out to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3792">TS</a>]

01:03:15   cupertino and sitting down a giant table [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3795">TS</a>]

01:03:17   with the entire executive team at apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3797">TS</a>]

01:03:19   and say in this 10-minute presentation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3799">TS</a>]

01:03:21   go i'm going to convince you that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3801">TS</a>]

01:03:23   need to redesign photos in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3803">TS</a>]

01:03:25   particular way and then they will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3805">TS</a>]

01:03:26   dismiss you and you know then they will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3806">TS</a>]

01:03:28   realize they were working on new version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3808">TS</a>]

01:03:30   of photos for like a year a new version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3810">TS</a>]

01:03:31   of itunes for 12 years or a new file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3811">TS</a>]

01:03:33   system for X number of years and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3813">TS</a>]

01:03:35   know you you don't have enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3815">TS</a>]

01:03:36   information put another way you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3816">TS</a>]

01:03:37   have enough information to be compelling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3817">TS</a>]

01:03:39   to them so i think all we can do as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3819">TS</a>]

01:03:41   sort of the public out here is merely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3821">TS</a>]

01:03:43   explain things from our perspective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3823">TS</a>]

01:03:46   because we just we just simply don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3826">TS</a>]

01:03:49   have enough information to make to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3829">TS</a>]

01:03:52   convince Apple to do anything but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3832">TS</a>]

01:03:53   have no idea we still have no idea what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3833">TS</a>]

01:03:55   they're actually doing all we can do is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3835">TS</a>]

01:03:57   say here's how we feel as users and hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3837">TS</a>]

01:03:59   that gets through to them and if we feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3839">TS</a>]

01:04:01   like there's a communication barrier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3841">TS</a>]

01:04:02   then thats that's what them coming on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3842">TS</a>]

01:04:04   podcast is about saying we hear you we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3844">TS</a>]

01:04:06   understand your concerns and you can go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3846">TS</a>]

01:04:08   back and forth on them and try to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3848">TS</a>]

01:04:09   clarify them or whatever and when it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3849">TS</a>]

01:04:11   feels like there's a gap like in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3851">TS</a>]

01:04:12   case where Mark was saying that like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3852">TS</a>]

01:04:14   well you don't understand here's all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3854">TS</a>]

01:04:16   things we have to deal with like where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3856">TS</a>]

01:04:18   you start sounding defensive and you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3858">TS</a>]

01:04:20   come back with snappy answers like well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3860">TS</a>]

01:04:21   google has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3861">TS</a>]

01:04:22   with this kind of volume 2 and they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3862">TS</a>]

01:04:23   it better so what's the deal there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3863">TS</a>]

01:04:25   all itunes big load for years and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3865">TS</a>]

01:04:26   everybody degrees in this so where's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3866">TS</a>]

01:04:28   new version and you say you agree but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3868">TS</a>]

01:04:29   where is that like they're not going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3869">TS</a>]

01:04:30   tell you all the new version we've been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3870">TS</a>]

01:04:32   working on it for a while now it's gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3872">TS</a>]

01:04:33   come out and it's gonna be split into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3873">TS</a>]

01:04:34   this number applications and blonde [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3874">TS</a>]

01:04:36   didn't make this really they're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3876">TS</a>]

01:04:37   going to tell you that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3877">TS</a>]

01:04:38   so all they can do is get their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3878">TS</a>]

01:04:39   perspective in a sanitized way so it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3879">TS</a>]

01:04:42   little bit like boys and girls with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3882">TS</a>]

01:04:44   dance at the opposite sides of the gym [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3884">TS</a>]

01:04:46   and no one going into the middle to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3886">TS</a>]

01:04:48   dance and and it has to be that way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3888">TS</a>]

01:04:50   because at the very least apple is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3890">TS</a>]

01:04:53   going to you know to reveal itself in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3893">TS</a>]

01:04:57   the public forum we have the advantage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3897">TS</a>]

01:04:59   of being able to real all of our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3899">TS</a>]

01:05:00   frustrations and put them out there and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3900">TS</a>]

01:05:03   then have apple hear them in whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3903">TS</a>]

01:05:04   way that one here but Apple is not going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3904">TS</a>]

01:05:06   to be that forthcoming so it is it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3906">TS</a>]

01:05:09   still strange relationship but i like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3909">TS</a>]

01:05:11   the fact that there is any kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3911">TS</a>]

01:05:12   communication going in both directions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3912">TS</a>]

01:05:13   of these days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3913">TS</a>]

01:05:14   yeah I've been really impressed by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3914">TS</a>]

01:05:17   Apple's willingness to communicate and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3917">TS</a>]

01:05:19   and i agree with you i would really hate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3919">TS</a>]

01:05:21   to see that stop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3921">TS</a>]

01:05:22   I'm I've really enjoyed these episodes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3922">TS</a>]

01:05:25   of the talk show and you know if they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3925">TS</a>]

01:05:27   ever decided to branch out into other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3927">TS</a>]

01:05:29   podcast I'm sure that it could be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3929">TS</a>]

01:05:31   accommodated by home with that said I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3931">TS</a>]

01:05:35   was reflecting on my memory of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3935">TS</a>]

01:05:37   episode III listen to it pretty much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3937">TS</a>]

01:05:39   immediately once it was out this was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3939">TS</a>]

01:05:40   almost week ago now but on there was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3940">TS</a>]

01:05:43   bit of a theme you can you keep saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3943">TS</a>]

01:05:45   John being defensive and I think that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3945">TS</a>]

01:05:47   a fair characterization but reflecting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3947">TS</a>]

01:05:50   on the the pieces that struck me the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3950">TS</a>]

01:05:52   most was a little bit of playing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3952">TS</a>]

01:05:55   victim [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3955">TS</a>]

01:05:56   itunes is really old and we have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3956">TS</a>]

01:05:59   support devices that go back to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3959">TS</a>]

01:06:01   beginning of time you know what do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3961">TS</a>]

01:06:03   expect us to do we have a lot of users [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3963">TS</a>]

01:06:06   guys you don't get it we have a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3966">TS</a>]

01:06:08   users let me tell you all the things we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3968">TS</a>]

01:06:10   do well we're gonna leave the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3970">TS</a>]

01:06:11   transactions we process right you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3971">TS</a>]

01:06:13   any q's ready with big numbers for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3973">TS</a>]

01:06:15   presentations we do a lot of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3975">TS</a>]

01:06:17   things and like you have to acknowledge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3977">TS</a>]

01:06:18   like yes they do those things but likely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3978">TS</a>]

01:06:20   sure the communication barrier is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3980">TS</a>]

01:06:22   we understand what you're doing is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3982">TS</a>]

01:06:24   god it's like playing the victim is one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3984">TS</a>]

01:06:26   way to say but the other way is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3986">TS</a>]

01:06:27   it's like being in operations or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3987">TS</a>]

01:06:30   whatever you want to call it at any big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3990">TS</a>]

01:06:32   company where you're the one responsible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3992">TS</a>]

01:06:33   for service and stuff working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3993">TS</a>]

01:06:35   nobody cares about your job when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3995">TS</a>]

01:06:37   everything goes well right they only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3997">TS</a>]

01:06:38   care about it when something breaks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/3998">TS</a>]

01:06:40   right you get no credit practically for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4000">TS</a>]

01:06:43   hey did you guys realize that for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4003">TS</a>]

01:06:45   past you know X number of hours or days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4005">TS</a>]

01:06:46   or whatever this service was perfectly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4006">TS</a>]

01:06:48   fine know they like they just expected [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4008">TS</a>]

01:06:50   it's like the power company that markets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4010">TS</a>]

01:06:51   are talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4011">TS</a>]

01:06:52   nobody cares about the power company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4012">TS</a>]

01:06:53   when the power is on you only care about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4013">TS</a>]

01:06:55   the power company on the one day a year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4015">TS</a>]

01:06:56   it's often then you're super pissed off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4016">TS</a>]

01:06:57   at them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4017">TS</a>]

01:06:58   I'm so in some ways it's a thankless job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4018">TS</a>]

01:07:00   but but that is the job if you work at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4020">TS</a>]

01:07:02   the power company you understand that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4022">TS</a>]

01:07:04   the job when the power goes out because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4024">TS</a>]

01:07:06   of something you don't say look you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4026">TS</a>]

01:07:07   don't understand how many how many miles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4027">TS</a>]

01:07:08   of lines we have and there's ice all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4028">TS</a>]

01:07:10   over them and you know tree branches [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4030">TS</a>]

01:07:12   leaning on them and birds pecking at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4032">TS</a>]

01:07:14   them and we don't have tax money to fund [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4034">TS</a>]

01:07:15   like the power company can make all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4035">TS</a>]

01:07:17   those same exact complaints and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4037">TS</a>]

01:07:18   should do the parties they can change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4038">TS</a>]

01:07:20   things but when your power goes out you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4040">TS</a>]

01:07:21   don't wanna hear it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4041">TS</a>]

01:07:22   yeah exactly and you know this this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4042">TS</a>]

01:07:24   victim sort of card got played couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4044">TS</a>]

01:07:27   more times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4047">TS</a>]

01:07:28   oh you know yes we have a lot of users [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4048">TS</a>]

01:07:29   and yes we are we are decent to serving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4049">TS</a>]

01:07:32   a lot of users let's say with iMessage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4052">TS</a>]

01:07:33   but you have to understand that we scale [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4053">TS</a>]

01:07:36   exponentially which all these things to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4056">TS</a>]

01:07:39   be clear are fair [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4059">TS</a>]

01:07:41   yeah affair observations but but still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4061">TS</a>]

01:07:43   it's only you guys don't get it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4063">TS</a>]

01:07:45   don't get it but the the one that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4065">TS</a>]

01:07:47   haven't talked about that i thought was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4067">TS</a>]

01:07:48   most fascinating was a pretty clear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4068">TS</a>]

01:07:51   no I'm gonna use the word admission but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4071">TS</a>]

01:07:53   that's not really what I'm looking for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4073">TS</a>]

01:07:54   but acknowledgement maybe a pretty clear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4074">TS</a>]

01:07:57   acknowledgement from craig that radar is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4077">TS</a>]

01:08:01   kind of fundamentally broken our serving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4081">TS</a>]

01:08:04   for serving the public that's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4084">TS</a>]

01:08:06   acknowledging that it's dark at night I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4086">TS</a>]

01:08:08   mean that's what fun things you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4088">TS</a>]

01:08:10   can't like yeah something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4090">TS</a>]

01:08:12   undeniable even any admitted itunes blow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4092">TS</a>]

01:08:14   but radar yeah no one is going to be I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4094">TS</a>]

01:08:17   don't think it's possible to send anyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4097">TS</a>]

01:08:18   from Apple to come out to defend radar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4098">TS</a>]

01:08:20   web and I think you're right but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4100">TS</a>]

01:08:23   nevertheless I thought it was an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4103">TS</a>]

01:08:25   important step for it to be said in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4105">TS</a>]

01:08:29   public that hey this is broken and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4109">TS</a>]

01:08:30   there's a little bit of victim playing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4110">TS</a>]

01:08:31   here too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4111">TS</a>]

01:08:32   well you don't understand that's super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4112">TS</a>]

01:08:34   important for us internally this is this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4114">TS</a>]

01:08:36   serves a really really big purpose for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4116">TS</a>]

01:08:38   us we can't just throw out the baby with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4118">TS</a>]

01:08:39   the bathwater yeah we we really needed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4119">TS</a>]

01:08:42   internally but you know we probably have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4122">TS</a>]

01:08:44   some room to grow externally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4124">TS</a>]

01:08:46   in and i thought that that Vic victim [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4126">TS</a>]

01:08:50   playing all of which to some degree was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4130">TS</a>]

01:08:53   fair was interesting it was very subtle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4133">TS</a>]

01:08:55   but most of all I just thought it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4135">TS</a>]

01:08:58   fascinating to see some admissions of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4138">TS</a>]

01:09:01   infallibility coming from the two of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4141">TS</a>]

01:09:03   them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4143">TS</a>]

01:09:03   yeah i think someone with more PR [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4143">TS</a>]

01:09:05   training more formal PR training would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4145">TS</a>]

01:09:06   know that those are not winning ankles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4146">TS</a>]

01:09:08   as Marco pointed out in the the episode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4148">TS</a>]

01:09:10   that we almost titled for effort like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4150">TS</a>]

01:09:11   that if you work really hard on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4151">TS</a>]

01:09:14   something you can't come to the public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4154">TS</a>]

01:09:16   with that like that's what you tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4156">TS</a>]

01:09:17   yourself internally right you can have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4157">TS</a>]

01:09:18   these discussions internally about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4158">TS</a>]

01:09:20   here's why it's really hard to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4160">TS</a>]

01:09:22   whatever to deal with itunes because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4162">TS</a>]

01:09:24   it's really popular to deal with updates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4164">TS</a>]

01:09:26   like these are everything they're saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4166">TS</a>]

01:09:28   is true but when you go to the public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4168">TS</a>]

01:09:30   part of PR training is to know what can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4170">TS</a>]

01:09:32   we say to the public there that that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4172">TS</a>]

01:09:34   going to move their opinion in the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4174">TS</a>]

01:09:35   that we want to move you have to that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4175">TS</a>]

01:09:37   the problem with having engineers talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4177">TS</a>]

01:09:39   to anybody they will just tell you the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4179">TS</a>]

01:09:40   truth and they will explain the real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4180">TS</a>]

01:09:41   situations and if you explain you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4181">TS</a>]

01:09:43   and if if your job is PR it's not to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4183">TS</a>]

01:09:47   simply tell the truth about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4187">TS</a>]

01:09:48   situation and not even to tell limited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4188">TS</a>]

01:09:50   version that is to figure out what can i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4190">TS</a>]

01:09:52   say that will make people change their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4192">TS</a>]

01:09:55   minds slightly about issue XR wiring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4195">TS</a>]

01:09:58   doesn't mean you have to lie or be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4198">TS</a>]

01:09:59   manipulative or whatever but it is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4199">TS</a>]

01:10:01   skill that being you know there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4201">TS</a>]

01:10:02   reason PRS profession and not like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4202">TS</a>]

01:10:05   injuries would have to do PR on the side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4205">TS</a>]

01:10:06   like it is an actual real skill and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4206">TS</a>]

01:10:09   takes a while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4209">TS</a>]

01:10:10   same thing with presenting on stage it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4210">TS</a>]

01:10:11   takes awhile to get good at and there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4211">TS</a>]

01:10:13   training involved in everything like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4213">TS</a>]

01:10:14   that i think both those guys on the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4214">TS</a>]

01:10:16   showed a slight lack of PR training in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4216">TS</a>]

01:10:22   in terms of there are things that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4222">TS</a>]

01:10:24   said that either shouldn't upset or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4224">TS</a>]

01:10:26   should have said in a different way to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4226">TS</a>]

01:10:27   to move the needle on the direction that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4227">TS</a>]

01:10:29   seemed to me that they wanted to move it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4229">TS</a>]

01:10:31   and and you know i like the more for it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4231">TS</a>]

01:10:33   like in terms of seems more human and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4233">TS</a>]

01:10:35   a do want to hear the inside scoop and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4235">TS</a>]

01:10:37   do one here with the thinking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4237">TS</a>]

01:10:39   these things but PR why's it may not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4239">TS</a>]

01:10:42   have been effective as another angle but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4242">TS</a>]

01:10:44   I'm same information i think if they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4244">TS</a>]

01:10:46   if they were more strictly PR trained or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4246">TS</a>]

01:10:50   or word hearing more strictly to PR [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4250">TS</a>]

01:10:52   styles of of speaking and responding i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4252">TS</a>]

01:10:55   think it would have been far less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4255">TS</a>]

01:10:57   interesting so here's my perfect example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4257">TS</a>]

01:10:59   of the opposite that Steve Jobs was as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4259">TS</a>]

01:11:01   far as an hour not PR trained super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4261">TS</a>]

01:11:04   interesting but he knew what to say to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4264">TS</a>]

01:11:06   move things in the direction you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4266">TS</a>]

01:11:08   move them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4268">TS</a>]

01:11:08   oh sure yeah but i would say like like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4268">TS</a>]

01:11:12   don't like when tim cook these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4272">TS</a>]

01:11:13   interviews to like you know 60 minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4273">TS</a>]

01:11:15   whatever i stopped even watching them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4275">TS</a>]

01:11:16   yeah those are boring he's so controlled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4276">TS</a>]

01:11:19   and so trained and send just his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4279">TS</a>]

01:11:21   personality is you know he keeps things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4281">TS</a>]

01:11:23   so close to the vest like I get nothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4283">TS</a>]

01:11:25   out of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4285">TS</a>]

01:11:26   also he's like a genuinely nice guy it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4286">TS</a>]

01:11:28   seems like it's not well everybody's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4288">TS</a>]

01:11:31   nice for steve jobs at an edge really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4291">TS</a>]

01:11:33   Steve Jobs like you know like Steve Jobs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4293">TS</a>]

01:11:35   gonna give some digging like AT&T you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4295">TS</a>]

01:11:37   knew he'd do it looking publicly like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4297">TS</a>]

01:11:39   stuff like that like I i feel like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4299">TS</a>]

01:11:41   know tim cook speaks the way i would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4301">TS</a>]

01:11:43   expect most CEOs to speak you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4303">TS</a>]

01:11:45   he's better than the average certainly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4305">TS</a>]

01:11:47   but but you know it's not like not in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4307">TS</a>]

01:11:49   the way that's like a major event when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4309">TS</a>]

01:11:51   he talks to a network news show for 20 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4311">TS</a>]

01:11:53   minutes about what they're doing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4313">TS</a>]

01:11:55   know it's not ever taken tim cook for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4315">TS</a>]

01:11:57   granted because like when I feel like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4317">TS</a>]

01:11:58   when tim cook talks about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4318">TS</a>]

01:12:00   environment or labor practices just like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4320">TS</a>]

01:12:02   that I genuine human rights that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4322">TS</a>]

01:12:04   genuinely believe that Tim Cook really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4324">TS</a>]

01:12:06   believes those things like it's not some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4326">TS</a>]

01:12:08   smarmy kind of i'm saying this to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4328">TS</a>]

01:12:10   our company like he seems genuine and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4330">TS</a>]

01:12:14   seems like a genuine friendly person who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4334">TS</a>]

01:12:17   cares about the world and wants to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4337">TS</a>]

01:12:18   a better and so on and so forth and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4338">TS</a>]

01:12:21   can be boring when you're looking for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4341">TS</a>]

01:12:23   like blood in the water [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4343">TS</a>]

01:12:24   something like that i'm steve jobs as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4344">TS</a>]

01:12:26   the example of like I think he was just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4346">TS</a>]

01:12:28   instinctive like instinctively he was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4348">TS</a>]

01:12:30   natural at it knowing how could talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4350">TS</a>]

01:12:33   eventually was a natural when he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4353">TS</a>]

01:12:35   young it wasn't great at it but they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4355">TS</a>]

01:12:36   have the latter day Steve job knowing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4356">TS</a>]

01:12:38   how to talk to the press to move the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4358">TS</a>]

01:12:42   discussion or the issue or public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4362">TS</a>]

01:12:44   opinion or whatever in the direction he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4364">TS</a>]

01:12:46   wanted to use I wanted to go in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4366">TS</a>]

01:12:48   while still sounding entirely genuine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4368">TS</a>]

01:12:51   human and interesting because he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4371">TS</a>]

01:12:54   willing to say the thing that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4374">TS</a>]

01:12:57   take a dig at some other vendor or say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4377">TS</a>]

01:13:01   something is crap or something is great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4381">TS</a>]

01:13:03   or whatever or have make blanket denials [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4383">TS</a>]

01:13:06   that he goes back on later whatever he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4386">TS</a>]

01:13:07   was able to do that just instinctively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4387">TS</a>]

01:13:09   and that dessert I think a rare skill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4389">TS</a>]

01:13:11   that again even see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4391">TS</a>]

01:13:13   jobs didn't happen as early days when he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4393">TS</a>]

01:13:14   was young with say terrible things to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4394">TS</a>]

01:13:15   the President and then regret them later [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4395">TS</a>]

01:13:17   and I don't think Craig annuity quite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4397">TS</a>]

01:13:20   have that yet but i'm saying is i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4400">TS</a>]

01:13:24   you can be if not PR trained or good at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4404">TS</a>]

01:13:28   you know that better moving the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4408">TS</a>]

01:13:29   discussion while still being see both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4409">TS</a>]

01:13:31   seaming and being entirely human [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4411">TS</a>]

01:13:33   i mean i think that the the Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4413">TS</a>]

01:13:35   open-source thing was a better example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4415">TS</a>]

01:13:36   that because there was the real like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4416">TS</a>]

01:13:38   that it wasn't like a defensive or try [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4418">TS</a>]

01:13:41   to change public opinion was really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4421">TS</a>]

01:13:43   promoting something that Craig really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4423">TS</a>]

01:13:45   believed in that actually was a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4425">TS</a>]

01:13:46   good thing and so he could be very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4426">TS</a>]

01:13:47   detailed and human and funny and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4427">TS</a>]

01:13:49   interesting and also promote the idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4429">TS</a>]

01:13:51   that Swift is awesome that open source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4431">TS</a>]

01:13:53   is awesome the Apple is awesome for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4433">TS</a>]

01:13:54   doing Swift open source and all that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4434">TS</a>]

01:13:56   stuff all of which he agreed with and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4436">TS</a>]

01:13:58   was able to promote in a way that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4438">TS</a>]

01:14:00   interesting and engaging and in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4440">TS</a>]

01:14:02   situation it seems kind of like these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4442">TS</a>]

01:14:05   two we're thrown to the wolves at bay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4445">TS</a>]

01:14:08   and again I don't know this is based on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4448">TS</a>]

01:14:09   information I don't know do they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4449">TS</a>]

01:14:10   volunteer for this where they told they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4450">TS</a>]

01:14:12   should do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4452">TS</a>]

01:14:13   did John asked them to be on who you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4453">TS</a>]

01:14:15   know who knows what the situation was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4455">TS</a>]

01:14:16   but it almost seemed like they found [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4456">TS</a>]

01:14:18   themselves in a situation where you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4458">TS</a>]

01:14:20   it's up to you to try to move the needle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4460">TS</a>]

01:14:26   on this issue of public opinion about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4466">TS</a>]

01:14:28   this while boss work thing so here you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4468">TS</a>]

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01:15:00   right but it's for razors because let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4500">TS</a>]

01:15:02   face it buying reason the drugstore is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4502">TS</a>]

01:15:04   not pleasant right now for Harry's these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4504">TS</a>]

01:15:07   are great quality blades they did and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4507">TS</a>]

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01:15:17   need more blades they're just two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4517">TS</a>]

01:15:19   dollars each or less an eight-pack is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4519">TS</a>]

01:15:21   just 15 bucks a 16 pack is 25 bucks now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4521">TS</a>]

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01:15:26   shaving nerd and I I've compared a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4526">TS</a>]

01:15:28   of blades out there this to me is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4528">TS</a>]

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01:15:34   beat Harry's 16 pack up late for 25 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4534">TS</a>]

01:15:36   bucks i mean if you compare that to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4536">TS</a>]

01:15:38   something like the gillette fusion which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4538">TS</a>]

01:15:39   I would say is its closest competitor a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4539">TS</a>]

01:15:41   16 pack fusion blades is fifty-six [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4541">TS</a>]

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01:15:51   it out today go to Harry's com get that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4551">TS</a>]

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01:16:29   alright what else you talkin about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4589">TS</a>]

01:16:30   tonight John this item has been in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4590">TS</a>]

01:16:32   notes for a little bit i think i've seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4592">TS</a>]

01:16:34   some links to it because it went around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4594">TS</a>]

01:16:36   the web a couple weeks ago that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4596">TS</a>]

01:16:38   worth keeping because while you might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4598">TS</a>]

01:16:40   have you seen this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4600">TS</a>]

01:16:41   the thing about to like to hear that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4601">TS</a>]

01:16:42   thing about vector networks from this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4602">TS</a>]

01:16:43   company figma no I i saw it but I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4603">TS</a>]

01:16:48   understand it but it sounds cool because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4608">TS</a>]

01:16:50   like I as somebody who likes so that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4610">TS</a>]

01:16:52   idea of this is like a new way to draw a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4612">TS</a>]

01:16:54   vector art basically can like a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4614">TS</a>]

01:16:56   basically a new like data structure for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4616">TS</a>]

01:16:58   vector art and and I have always been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4618">TS</a>]

01:17:01   baffled by the few attempts I've made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4621">TS</a>]

01:17:03   doing vector art be like as you know in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4623">TS</a>]

01:17:07   from my very very light and very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4627">TS</a>]

01:17:08   occasional needs to do it that these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4628">TS</a>]

01:17:11   programs always been very hard for me to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4631">TS</a>]

01:17:13   understand and it's been very hard for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4633">TS</a>]

01:17:15   me to achieve the result i want that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4635">TS</a>]

01:17:17   seems very obvious ago I just want this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4637">TS</a>]

01:17:19   line to go from here to here and be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4639">TS</a>]

01:17:20   perfectly smooth and like it's so hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4640">TS</a>]

01:17:22   to do some of those things if you aren't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4642">TS</a>]

01:17:24   familiar with with like the tools of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4644">TS</a>]

01:17:25   Bezier curves basically and weird weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4645">TS</a>]

01:17:28   stuff like that so it do understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4648">TS</a>]

01:17:30   correctly this is kind of like an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4650">TS</a>]

01:17:31   alternative whole system that makes more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4651">TS</a>]

01:17:32   sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4652">TS</a>]

01:17:33   yeah so this since this as far as i can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4653">TS</a>]

01:17:35   tell it's not a piece of software you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4655">TS</a>]

01:17:36   can download to try at this point I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4656">TS</a>]

01:17:39   just going by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4659">TS</a>]

01:17:40   the various animations and then the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4660">TS</a>]

01:17:41   description on their website and i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4661">TS</a>]

01:17:45   know if it will be any good or old bed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4665">TS</a>]

01:17:46   do what they say it will do but i'm most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4666">TS</a>]

01:17:49   interested in it because very often I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4669">TS</a>]

01:17:52   see in discussions about software for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4672">TS</a>]

01:17:54   running platform iOS and mac or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4674">TS</a>]

01:17:57   now a lot of people myself included fall [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4677">TS</a>]

01:17:59   into the the fatalistic notion sometimes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4679">TS</a>]

01:18:02   that there's no point in making an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4682">TS</a>]

01:18:06   application that does X because that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4686">TS</a>]

01:18:08   soft problem and you don't need another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4688">TS</a>]

01:18:11   one and the markets all tied up and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4691">TS</a>]

01:18:13   know you don't want to go red ocean you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4693">TS</a>]

01:18:14   wanna go blue ocean go where nobody else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4694">TS</a>]

01:18:16   is and find the market that is unserved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4696">TS</a>]

01:18:19   and serve that one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4699">TS</a>]

01:18:20   aren't most oceans blue else's analogies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4700">TS</a>]

01:18:23   the nintendo wii think you know about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4703">TS</a>]

01:18:25   this right just really a poor color [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4705">TS</a>]

01:18:26   choice red oceans because there's blood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4706">TS</a>]

01:18:28   in the water from the competitors eating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4708">TS</a>]

01:18:31   each other but doesn't lose you mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4711">TS</a>]

01:18:32   there's no customers because it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4712">TS</a>]

01:18:34   empty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4714">TS</a>]

01:18:34   yes that's right you want to go where no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4714">TS</a>]

01:18:36   one is serving the customers is it there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4716">TS</a>]

01:18:38   are no competitors like what you the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4718">TS</a>]

01:18:39   other competitors are the are the things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4719">TS</a>]

01:18:41   you can change the color of the water no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4721">TS</a>]

01:18:42   competitors are there eating each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4722">TS</a>]

01:18:44   you'll just be the only one there and no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4724">TS</a>]

01:18:45   one is eating you so there's no blood in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4725">TS</a>]

01:18:46   the ocean but you have nobody to either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4726">TS</a>]

01:18:48   because there's no customers the water [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4728">TS</a>]

01:18:50   your customers it's not a perfect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4730">TS</a>]

01:18:51   I don't make it happen ease i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4731">TS</a>]

01:18:54   anyone ever started for the we go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4734">TS</a>]

01:18:56   reference old hypercritical episodes as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4736">TS</a>]

01:18:58   always I'll be the answer key is there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4738">TS</a>]

01:19:00   it's like the rosetta stone just go back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4740">TS</a>]

01:19:01   we should totally review business books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4741">TS</a>]

01:19:02   in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4742">TS</a>]

01:19:03   oh god you thought you were escape Casey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4743">TS</a>]

01:19:06   that's not so anyway with the vector [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4746">TS</a>]

01:19:09   drawing outside the same experience I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4749">TS</a>]

01:19:10   got used illustrator 88 and learned how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4750">TS</a>]

01:19:13   to use vector tools and the various [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4753">TS</a>]

01:19:15   applications into more variety back then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4755">TS</a>]

01:19:16   like mac girl and almost all the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4756">TS</a>]

01:19:18   applications you guys have never heard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4758">TS</a>]

01:19:19   of or used but these days it has settled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4759">TS</a>]

01:19:22   down in most vector drawing applications [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4762">TS</a>]

01:19:24   and now that illustrator is like wipe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4764">TS</a>]

01:19:25   them all from the face of the planet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4765">TS</a>]

01:19:26   free hands even around the neighborhood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4766">TS</a>]

01:19:28   ever follow a similar theme for in terms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4768">TS</a>]

01:19:32   of the controls just a lot of is just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4772">TS</a>]

01:19:34   because of historically speaking that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4774">TS</a>]

01:19:35   once you establish the sort of keyboard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4775">TS</a>]

01:19:38   modifiers that everyone is used to and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4778">TS</a>]

01:19:40   everything that is like out what drawing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4780">TS</a>]

01:19:41   vectors in this particular way and at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4781">TS</a>]

01:19:43   this point if you're not someone who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4783">TS</a>]

01:19:44   uses about growing up all the time you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4784">TS</a>]

01:19:47   will find it weird and you like Marco [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4787">TS</a>]

01:19:49   will not be able to do what you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4789">TS</a>]

01:19:50   do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4790">TS</a>]

01:19:51   because it will seem like i just want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4791">TS</a>]

01:19:52   connect this line to that line to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4792">TS</a>]

01:19:54   line and why doesn't let me connect here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4794">TS</a>]

01:19:55   and no this is actually connected that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4795">TS</a>]

01:19:57   line is disconnected and there's little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4797">TS</a>]

01:19:59   endcap sticking out and why can't this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4799">TS</a>]

01:20:01   curve go the way I wanted and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4801">TS</a>]

01:20:03   what is the winding number and why when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4803">TS</a>]

01:20:04   i try to fill this region does it leak [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4804">TS</a>]

01:20:05   out because it looks like this entirely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4805">TS</a>]

01:20:07   closed circle and also the crap and at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4807">TS</a>]

01:20:10   the same time a software developer would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4810">TS</a>]

01:20:12   so I'm not gonna do a vector drawing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4812">TS</a>]

01:20:14   application that market is so not like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4814">TS</a>]

01:20:16   there are so many strong competitors and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4816">TS</a>]

01:20:17   there's great applications what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4817">TS</a>]

01:20:19   Who am I even serving with like say I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4819">TS</a>]

01:20:22   making a vector drawing application that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4822">TS</a>]

01:20:23   that's really good i say it's just all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4823">TS</a>]

01:20:26   you know just as good as one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4826">TS</a>]

01:20:27   strong market leaders so what who's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4827">TS</a>]

01:20:30   gonna buy mine is already an application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4830">TS</a>]

01:20:32   that does that by Napoli by a vendor has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4832">TS</a>]

01:20:33   been around longer than has more support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4833">TS</a>]

01:20:34   that has you know they have such a head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4834">TS</a>]

01:20:36   start on me is no point and i like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4836">TS</a>]

01:20:39   idea of this vector networks thing of I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4839">TS</a>]

01:20:41   think in every application domain there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4841">TS</a>]

01:20:43   is the possibility of saying yeah it if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4843">TS</a>]

01:20:46   there's a market that is you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4846">TS</a>]

01:20:48   heavily saturated with lots of very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4848">TS</a>]

01:20:49   strong competitors that's probably hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4849">TS</a>]

01:20:52   to break into but if you look at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4852">TS</a>]

01:20:53   market and say but you know what they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4853">TS</a>]

01:20:55   all suck in this one particular way and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4855">TS</a>]

01:20:57   their users either don't realize that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4857">TS</a>]

01:20:59   sucks in that way or don't care because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4859">TS</a>]

01:21:01   they learn the old system and there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4861">TS</a>]

01:21:02   could be people out there who are not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4862">TS</a>]

01:21:04   buying vector drawing applications to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4864">TS</a>]

01:21:05   see the existing ones they can't figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4865">TS</a>]

01:21:06   out how to use them so i can make a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4866">TS</a>]

01:21:08   better way to draw vectors I can a get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4868">TS</a>]

01:21:11   customers that don't buy these other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4871">TS</a>]

01:21:12   applications or aren't satisfied with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4872">TS</a>]

01:21:14   them and be possibly become the new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4874">TS</a>]

01:21:17   great vector application because maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4877">TS</a>]

01:21:19   even designers want to do it this way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4879">TS</a>]

01:21:20   and not deal with those frustrations or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4880">TS</a>]

01:21:22   whatever or you just failed miserably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4882">TS</a>]

01:21:24   and realize that there's no competing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4884">TS</a>]

01:21:25   with illustrator and you know too bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4885">TS</a>]

01:21:27   but I I'm heartened by efforts like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4887">TS</a>]

01:21:32   because it reminds me that there is no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4892">TS</a>]

01:21:35   problem that is so well solve that can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4895">TS</a>]

01:21:37   be solved better by someone else with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4897">TS</a>]

01:21:39   better idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4899">TS</a>]

01:21:40   and so I i'm looking forward to trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4900">TS</a>]

01:21:42   this application and if it doesn't work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4902">TS</a>]

01:21:44   out or is actually worse than the old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4904">TS</a>]

01:21:45   one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4905">TS</a>]

01:21:46   oh well but i really liked seeing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4906">TS</a>]

01:21:48   stories like this and i really want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4908">TS</a>]

01:21:49   people to do more things like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4909">TS</a>]

01:21:50   because as you can imagine there's not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4910">TS</a>]

01:21:53   single application i use every day that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4913">TS</a>]

01:21:54   I don't think could be better in some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4914">TS</a>]

01:21:56   fundamental way is so perfect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4916">TS</a>]

01:21:58   that's right a you would listen that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4918">TS</a>]

01:22:00   show good job once or twice yeah yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4920">TS</a>]

01:22:03   yeah it's just glancing at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4923">TS</a>]

01:22:05   graphics and I haven't read the article [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4925">TS</a>]

01:22:06   looks very cool my only foray into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4926">TS</a>]

01:22:09   vector drawing was the world's best app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4929">TS</a>]

01:22:12   icon with feet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4932">TS</a>]

01:22:14   yes and and so i am not the one to talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4934">TS</a>]

01:22:18   about this but it looks neat for sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4938">TS</a>]

01:22:19   I'm s what I mess up because i don't i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4939">TS</a>]

01:22:22   not going to using the current crop of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4942">TS</a>]

01:22:23   vector tools but what I miss a lot is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4943">TS</a>]

01:22:26   briefly i believe in college got it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4946">TS</a>]

01:22:29   long as i can remember it wasn't pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4949">TS</a>]

01:22:31   sure with autocad everyone will you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4951">TS</a>]

01:22:33   email and tell me what application was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4953">TS</a>]

01:22:35   but it's the one where you you can draw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4955">TS</a>]

01:22:36   things with the command line in addition [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4956">TS</a>]

01:22:38   to using the mouse and stuff it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4958">TS</a>]

01:22:39   probably autocad and for a brief moment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4959">TS</a>]

01:22:42   I got pretty good doing that and I could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4962">TS</a>]

01:22:45   do things with that command line and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4965">TS</a>]

01:22:48   what I think was autocad that I still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4968">TS</a>]

01:22:50   can't do with illustrator in terms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4970">TS</a>]

01:22:52   connect this line to their perpendicular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4972">TS</a>]

01:22:54   to that intersect that with this like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4974">TS</a>]

01:22:56   always have such difficulty of like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4976">TS</a>]

01:22:58   just want this point to be on that line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4978">TS</a>]

01:23:00   and I want the angle between the two to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4980">TS</a>]

01:23:01   be this and I don't care if it's not on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4981">TS</a>]

01:23:03   a grid line and I don't care like just I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4983">TS</a>]

01:23:05   can describe to you what I want like in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4985">TS</a>]

01:23:07   immuno in this command line parlance why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4987">TS</a>]

01:23:10   stupid pen tool you refuse to do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4990">TS</a>]

01:23:12   why do I have to click option click [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4992">TS</a>]

01:23:14   shift click no don't start making a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4994">TS</a>]

01:23:15   curve no don't connect to that line know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4995">TS</a>]

01:23:17   now you know in AutoCAD I could always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/4997">TS</a>]

01:23:20   get what I wanted and inform z the only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5000">TS</a>]

01:23:22   other thing that comes too close to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5002">TS</a>]

01:23:23   form Z is an old 3d program maybe it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5003">TS</a>]

01:23:26   still out there whatever I remember the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5006">TS</a>]

01:23:28   same thing remember eventually being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5008">TS</a>]

01:23:30   able to do pretty much everything that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5010">TS</a>]

01:23:31   wanted in that program despite it being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5011">TS</a>]

01:23:33   incredibly complicated yet to this day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5013">TS</a>]

01:23:34   vector drawing tools defeat me because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5014">TS</a>]

01:23:37   they follow a set of rules that is I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5017">TS</a>]

01:23:38   guess I just disagree with him the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5018">TS</a>]

01:23:40   headphone and refuse to internalize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5020">TS</a>]

01:23:42   enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5022">TS</a>]

01:23:44   alright thanks 143 sponsors this week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5024">TS</a>]

01:23:46   backblaze hover and Harry's and we'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5026">TS</a>]

01:23:49   see you next week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5029">TS</a>]

01:23:53   now the show is over they didn't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5033">TS</a>]

01:23:56   mean to begin as it was accidental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5036">TS</a>]

01:24:00   it was accidental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5040">TS</a>]

01:24:03   John any research Marco in kc would let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5043">TS</a>]

01:24:08   go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5048">TS</a>]

01:24:08   because it was accidental was accidental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5048">TS</a>]

01:24:14   you can find the show know today TV die [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5054">TS</a>]

01:24:18   and if your twitter follow them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5058">TS</a>]

01:24:25   yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5065">TS</a>]

01:24:30   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5070">TS</a>]

01:24:38   Syracuse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5078">TS</a>]

01:24:43   what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5083">TS</a>]

01:24:51   my Sam but the sandbox title here i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5091">TS</a>]

01:24:56   thinking of jumping the possible over as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5096">TS</a>]

01:24:58   many people as possible in the sandbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5098">TS</a>]

01:25:00   or as many people in the sandbox is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5100">TS</a>]

01:25:01   possibly because even if it is it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5101">TS</a>]

01:25:03   already and square space stone but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5103">TS</a>]

01:25:05   don't know if the title is it accurate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5105">TS</a>]

01:25:07   representation of what we said I'm just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5107">TS</a>]

01:25:08   saying which one sounds which one sounds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5108">TS</a>]

01:25:10   better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5110">TS</a>]

01:25:11   i'm pretty sure that was the accurate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5111">TS</a>]

01:25:12   prediction what you said and I i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5112">TS</a>]

01:25:15   it's got better as is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5115">TS</a>]

01:25:16   yeah agreed yes I think it's but if i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5116">TS</a>]

01:25:18   was writing it I would put the possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5118">TS</a>]

01:25:19   first but it was a podcast that people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5119">TS</a>]

01:25:21   speak and i know im just looking at it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5121">TS</a>]

01:25:24   and thinking about the long title it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5124">TS</a>]

01:25:25   got things to move around a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5125">TS</a>]

01:25:28   nothing that is so perfect know mangle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5128">TS</a>]

01:25:32   that their job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5132">TS</a>]

01:25:33   yeah oh yeah another medical yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5133">TS</a>]

01:25:36   nothing that is so what everyone yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5136">TS</a>]

01:25:39   you get the idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5139">TS</a>]

01:25:40   yeah we have made this tire decided you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5140">TS</a>]

01:25:43   know we discovered a neutral method [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5143">TS</a>]

01:25:44   slightly misquoting John back to himself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5144">TS</a>]

01:25:47   doesn't know i doing to myself are you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5147">TS</a>]

01:25:50   talking about one every time I listen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5150">TS</a>]

01:25:54   myself on a podcast that happens making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5154">TS</a>]

01:25:58   you explain that when I wasn't myself I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5158">TS</a>]

01:26:00   hear all the things i say wrong and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5160">TS</a>]

01:26:02   effectively trolling myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5162">TS</a>]

01:26:04   ok so but it's not like you're not like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5164">TS</a>]

01:26:06   you're not like saying as you listen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5166">TS</a>]

01:26:09   along saying in your head what you said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5169">TS</a>]

01:26:11   differently you're just you're mad that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5171">TS</a>]

01:26:14   you said something that was not what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5174">TS</a>]

01:26:16   think that is accurate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5176">TS</a>]

01:26:17   I can always here when I'm the listener [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5177">TS</a>]

01:26:19   io here all my mistakes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5179">TS</a>]

01:26:21   well you should try editing the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5181">TS</a>]

01:26:22   it's wrong but brutal at least you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5182">TS</a>]

01:26:25   to fix them I have no control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5185">TS</a>]

01:26:26   well i guess i can fix some of them you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5186">TS</a>]

01:26:28   know yeah but you fix yours way better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5188">TS</a>]

01:26:29   than you fix mine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5189">TS</a>]

01:26:30   yeah well because I i I'm more critical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5190">TS</a>]

01:26:32   of myself would you say your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5192">TS</a>]

01:26:34   hypercritical if you ended the show we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5194">TS</a>]

01:26:36   would never publish a show his head so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5196">TS</a>]

01:26:38   don't know that I've never I've never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5198">TS</a>]

01:26:40   added anything have no idea what kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5200">TS</a>]

01:26:41   editor i would be a critical one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5201">TS</a>]

01:26:43   probably the same thing I would fix [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5203">TS</a>]

01:26:45   everything that I said leave everyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5205">TS</a>]

01:26:46   else is that sound dumped you for me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5206">TS</a>]

01:26:51   your your part of the show is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5211">TS</a>]

01:26:52   easiest to edit because you talk for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5212">TS</a>]

01:26:56   long spans mostly uninterruptedly and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5216">TS</a>]

01:26:59   they very rarely require any alterations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5219">TS</a>]

01:27:01   so mostly most of what you say just skip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5221">TS</a>]

01:27:03   over like I just skin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5223">TS</a>]

01:27:05   it for like whiter than usual gaps and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5225">TS</a>]

01:27:07   shrink those but for the most part i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5227">TS</a>]

01:27:09   don't i don't even listen to what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5229">TS</a>]

01:27:11   say on the editors I heard during the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5231">TS</a>]

01:27:12   show I know it's fine i listened to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5232">TS</a>]

01:27:14   and I make mistakes anyway it's fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5234">TS</a>]

01:27:16   part of the process you getting you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5236">TS</a>]

01:27:19   getting the real John in the edit the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5239">TS</a>]

01:27:21   raw you brought uncut siracusa circus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5241">TS</a>]

01:27:25   man you're finally managed to be fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5245">TS</a>]

01:27:29   and everything's you get inside your own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5249">TS</a>]

01:27:30   head of the rated acusa I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5250">TS</a>]

01:27:32   yeah siracusa you're fine yeah fine i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5252">TS</a>]

01:27:39   know you're talking about refer back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5259">TS</a>]

01:27:41   the hypercritical episode where I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5261">TS</a>]

01:27:43   discussed the primary purpose of speech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5263">TS</a>]

01:27:46   or writing is to communicate an idea and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5266">TS</a>]

01:27:49   if I basically if I know you're talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5269">TS</a>]

01:27:51   about your successfully communicated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5271">TS</a>]

01:27:52   that idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7yl30/5272">TS</a>]