156: A Mac on Fire
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I have not looked at the show notes by
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the way so whatever we're talking about
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going to be suppressed me your job you
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try to use a ipad full-time so it's
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basically all you today so it looks like
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all right we're going boy we sure got a
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lot of feedback about last week's
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episode like a lot and this you know so
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last week's episode we were especially
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unusually critical of apple and in
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particular their UI design it recently
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especially things like the apple TV and
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the Photos app we have so many responses
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from that and they are split right down
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it was a very polarizing episode of
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about half of the comments said I can't
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believe you are still you're so negative
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about Apple I'm getting so tired of this
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i can I just can't listen anymore this
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is I just can't take it anymore I can't
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take the negativity and the other half
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was I am so happy you guys are finally
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saying all this stuff for that you are
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drawing attention to this problem that i
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also agree with or have or thank thank
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goodness I'm so happy you you covered
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this including people in apple but said
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they were very happy that we covered it
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so I don't know what to think about that
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did you actually count them I've meant
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to count them as well because i felt
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like it was definitely was it was it was
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not lopsided one way or the other but
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I'm like you know you like your
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perception of the feedback is different
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like maybe I'm thinking am I weighing
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the ones that agree with me too much or
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am I weighing the ones that disagree
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because they feel bad too much like
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sighs you know I should just count them
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but I of course i never got around to it
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but I should go back and do that to say
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visit my impression just based on feel
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was that it was more slightly more
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supporters than detractors but I you
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know I could be wrong enough but anyway
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it was definitely not a landslide in one
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direction other and the end like it
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wasn't so much the volume of the
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feedback as each piece of feedback was
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very emphatic about whatever their point
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was you they really really loved it and
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are like thank God for our that was a
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great episode or the best episode ever
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ever or the exact opposite that was the
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worst ever i hate you all goodbye and
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yeah it's funny I didn't count either
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but I'm but my conclusion was nearly
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identical my conclusion was it was split
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really close to 50 50 I would actually
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say it was slightly more you guys need
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to stop whining and slightly less oh
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thank goodness somebody's saying it but
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it was near as makes no difference to
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5050 and and I was I don't know is a
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little bit sad to see so many people
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upset about it but by and large I felt
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like the feedback was certainly
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polarizing like market said yeah I felt
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better about even even though the people
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who didn't like me you like it you like
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it like it like this you know everyone's
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entitled to their opinion right but but
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i really felt like a you know as we've
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been talking about these various issues
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related to apple that of all the
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episodes we've had that have touched on
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these topics i thought it was fairly
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constructive like that it wasn't just
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complaining for the same plan that we
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were trying to figure out like what is
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you know describe the problem in detail
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just like I did not like I don't like
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good Apple TV it's bad like we had
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reasons right and then and then trying
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to dig and why those reasons there what
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could they do differently like specific
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and constructive right and and without
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any sort of their four apples doom stuff
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and I can you know so i guess for some
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people did the making it specifically
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instructive doesn't matter as much as
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like you know just taking too long and
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her whatever anyway yeah you might try
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to change anyone's mind about what they
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do or don't want to hear in a podcast
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but for my part at least that's what I'm
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always aiming for is if you're going to
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be talking about problems that you're
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having try to do it in a constructive
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try not to be mean-spirited not to get
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carried away but to really get to the
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heart of the matter and try to like
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figure it out imagine that it was your
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problem to solve how would you solve it
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what is what is the way to fix this
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that's what that's what I'm always
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thinking yeah great so I'm hopefully
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we'll have some happier show's over the
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next few but knowing us we'll see how
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hurts and hopes but but speaking of
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do we have any follow-up a couple items
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here this last episode as part of our
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critiquing the photos you I am
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general trend on the mac of simplifying
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mac applications one of the quotes i
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threw out that i thought was I still
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don't remember the designers now I
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thought was the guy not the bang &
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olufsen guy maybe daram maybe him
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that's what I think you thought it was
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yeah I thought it was some designer many
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people point out to me after the show
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that the quote i was calling about
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simple as possible but not simpler was
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not a designer of apparently it's
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attributed to albert einstein and look
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this up on Wikipedia or not we could be
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there wikiquote sorry sorry and the
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actual quote as is often the case the
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actual supposed quote that led to the
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thing I was quoting his much more
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complicated and much more
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albert einstein and I guess here is it
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can scarcely be denied the supreme goal
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of all theories to make the irreducible
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basic elements as simple and as few as
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possible without having to surrender the
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adequate representation of a single
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datum of experience that does not roll
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off the tongue like it's more possible
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and no simply write this was brought
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this is from on the method of
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theoretical physics the herbert spencer
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lecture delivered oxford intense 1933
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alright so that is a real thing that he
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said that was recorded that sounds a lot
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do you know if you if you simplify the
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sense it is much like what i said and
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then the quote investigator com story
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talks about how the quote attributed
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Einstein may have arisen from that and
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the variant is everything should be made
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as simple as possible no simpler and so
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on and so forth so we'll put all these
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links in like all these kind of quotes
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that you've heard attributed to a
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particular person it's hard to know
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where they actually came from but the
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sentiment rings true with enough people
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that this quote in this idea survives
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despite it's a cloudy origins
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alright so tell me about photos crop in
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aspect behavior series so a lot of my
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complaints were focusing on the photos
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application which i use a lot in which I
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still do like but their frustrations
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with the Apple product design in with
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using photos as an example and one of
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one of my major complaint was about
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dealing with the cropping photos and
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reconstructing their aspect ratio and
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stuff and couple people have some
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suggestions to make that easier inside
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the application one of them is the
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keyboard shortcut which if you hold down
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the shift key you can constrain the
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proportion to the original proportions
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circuit with that is you have to hold
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down the shift key before you begin the
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drag unlike a lot of other operations
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and like graphics applications or you
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know that you may be familiar with where
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you start save dragging a selection
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outline and photoshop and if you hit the
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various modifiers to constrain it you
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can switch those modifiers in the middle
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of the drag with this you have to be
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holding down shift before you begin the
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dragon you begin a drag than nothing to
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shift makes any difference so that's
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going to know and there was a theory
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that nobody offered in the feedback that
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were totally expected to get and
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literally nobody sent a lot of people
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selling various keyboard shortcuts but
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nobody sent this idea and it is a reason
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to try to explain why photos every time
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you go to edit an image and the crop
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thing you have to have the aspect menu
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and select original even though it's
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what I want every single time you know
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setting aside the keyboard shortcuts
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why does it not remember that every time
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I go to crop I want the aspect to be the
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original right why is it just not
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remember like the last thing I used or
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have a preference or something you know
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you don't even need a perfect setting
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just basically when i change that pop-up
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menu leave it that way until I change it
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again and my theory if I had to have
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someone explain that default aside from
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them possibly just saying oh we never
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got around to making that sticky would
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be that if you remember the last setting
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used in applications trying to be as
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simple as fotos is someone go in there
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and for you know how to make a square
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photo or something so they would you
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know figured find the little aspect
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things like Square and resize their
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photo and crop it and be done and then
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three days later come back and go to
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crop a photo and just try dragging the
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little outline and have it all the Sun
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snap to a square and they wouldn't
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understand why is it why does it keep
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snapping to ask where I don't want it to
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be a square or you know or whatever
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thing i wanted i want to do freeform
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cropping here was and they won't
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remember that like the settings don't
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think it's broken or someone different
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will come to the program and not realize
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that it is remembering last thing so
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resetting from zero every single time
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gives what they think is the sensible
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defaults for everybody which is
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unconstrained which I don't know that
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sensible default but in theory you could
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argue that by remembering the last thing
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you picked is making the application
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appear broken to future people who may
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not know about the aspect menu or even
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someone who picked it from the item last
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time do I don't think that's a good
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reason to do it an application like
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photos because i think that is not as
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common as like I think you'll be
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gearing the application to novices too
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much and that you should be realized
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that everyone starts off as a novice but
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if you use photos to your after year
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after year eventually you will learn a
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thing or two and become it's not an
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expert at least proficient user and I
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constant annoyance of having to pick
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that are having to hold down the shift
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here having to do whatever overwhelms
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it's of my opinion is still the same but
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if I had to make the counter argument
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against my opinion try to explain the
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behavior of photos as it exists that's
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one explanation and the other
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explanation a lot of people get which i
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think is not an explanation all i think
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is obvious but we should have pointed
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out in the past so is that part of the
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simplification of these various mac
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applications is to make them look and
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work more like their iOS counterparts I
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was counterparts obviously have to be
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more simple necessarily because they
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have to work on a phone screen in many
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cases obviously you can't have giant
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toolbar buttons you just have room for
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anything you have to simplify right but
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on the mac the whole point of that
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discussion wasn't on the macbook same
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constraints don't hold so for the sake
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of uniformity trying to say we just make
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it look and work the same in both things
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then you just not treating the mac the
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way it should be treated it should be
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the advantage of the mac platform should
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be realized in the applications that run
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them they should it shouldn't be
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constrained to the lowest common
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denominator is defined by phone or
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whatever but also like you know just in
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the same way that like it was the best
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thing for the phone and for the ipad to
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not just have mac OS like shoved onto
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them and and just pour it onto them
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straight in that same way having iOS
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things just shuts down to the mac is not
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appropriate for the mac and we can look
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at the last you know what five years of
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Western releases like basically since
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lion as they have attempted to to shove
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iOS things onto the mac and most of the
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time it really flops it or it's just bad
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I or at best mediocre there's a whole
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bunch of like the iOS application of
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magnitude been tempted and it just it
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just lands flat it just doesn't doesn't
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feel right on the Mac just in the same
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way that the mac you I wouldn't feel
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right on the phone that I think the
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worst one is where they they decided
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they have to have down like maybe not
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down to the pixel but basically the same
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glyphs the same icons the same sort of
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menus like when I see a mac application
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with like basically in ios7 style button
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that is really just plain text like that
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language doesn't
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doesn't fit in the back because the rest
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of the Mac isn't like that most Matt
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Capps and i like that on the mac buttons
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have little outlines and stuff they look
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like little capsules blah blah you know
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there is a design language for the
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controls and experience on the market is
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different from the phone and so on an
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application lands on the mac setting
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aside the functionality and how many
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things are hidden away or if it's
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designed her phone screen they'll just
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change the surface part of it to look
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when act weird and it doesn't fit in and
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so the photo suffers from all that it's
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massively simplified lots of stuff is
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hidden many things are constrained like
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a little pop-up thing with the sharing
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that we talked about this just way too
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small for no reason that the icons or
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sometimes identical to the ones on the
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phone and I think they're trying to make
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a family resemblance but they haven't
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the there has never been in ios7 style
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revolution in the mac you I Yosemite was
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as close as they came with flat and
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stuff out and took away a lot of the
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gloss and everything but it is by no
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means like iOS 7 was on the phone and
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the ipad where it radically changed the
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the look and feel and the way you design
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applications right before we get our
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photos one last item is a lot of people
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suggested keyboard shortcuts i know a
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lot of these I looked him up and help
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someone so forth
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one of the issues that I've complained
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►
about the past that I should have
[TS]
◼
►
emphasized last time as well is that
[TS]
◼
►
photos likes to ignore my keystrokes not
[TS]
◼
►
all of them most of the time the
[TS]
◼
►
keystrokes land but if I had a penny for
[TS]
◼
►
every time I hit the spacebar nothing
[TS]
◼
►
happened in photos i would have be able
[TS]
◼
►
to buy a nice meal because it like and
[TS]
◼
►
so the same thing for like rotating or
[TS]
◼
►
you know hitting enter to edit or you
[TS]
◼
►
know command keys usually have a higher
[TS]
◼
►
percentage like man harder to rotate
[TS]
◼
►
bird seed crop and stuff like that but I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know where those keystrokes go
[TS]
◼
►
I know if there's a responder chain
[TS]
◼
►
thing falling down and it's not like
[TS]
◼
►
it's just like super mightily delayed
[TS]
◼
►
and I get impatient and hit again
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes I will just say you know what
[TS]
◼
►
I'm not going to do it again maybe did
[TS]
◼
►
register just wait and Eleni after 10
[TS]
◼
►
seconds you like note that space bar
[TS]
◼
►
just went into the ether so yeah
[TS]
◼
►
keyboard shortcuts are not personally
[TS]
◼
►
not a solution for most people using the
[TS]
◼
►
application because most people never
[TS]
◼
►
going to memorize those keyboard
[TS]
◼
►
shortcuts but even for me know some of
[TS]
◼
►
them the keyboard shortcuts become
[TS]
◼
►
unreliable as well every time i get i do
[TS]
◼
►
you know a drop aspect original with the
[TS]
◼
►
mouse cursor it works every time
[TS]
◼
►
it's just tedious that's why I end up
[TS]
◼
►
doing repeatedly rather
[TS]
◼
►
the temperature of the keystrokes if i
[TS]
◼
►
do the keystrokes and wait for a
[TS]
◼
►
three-count another happens then I end
[TS]
◼
►
up going to the mouse anyway right
[TS]
◼
►
somebody has sent to us and I've
[TS]
◼
►
apologized because I don't know who sent
[TS]
◼
►
but somebody sent us a bluetooth
[TS]
◼
►
headphone dongle concept which was done
[TS]
◼
►
by sean nelson this is on partly Sean
[TS]
◼
►
dot-com and I'm glad that one of you put
[TS]
◼
►
this in the show notes because I meant
[TS]
◼
►
to and I completely forgot this is
[TS]
◼
►
actually a really interesting idea so
[TS]
◼
►
the the general premise here is hey if
[TS]
◼
►
the iphone 7 really does give up the the
[TS]
◼
►
then what would Apple do to kind of
[TS]
◼
►
bridge the gap between the the phone not
[TS]
◼
►
having a headphone jack and all of us
[TS]
◼
►
having these for these headphones that
[TS]
◼
►
are probably not bluetooth and so this
[TS]
◼
►
shawn nelson person did a prototype a
[TS]
◼
►
concept of hey here's how Apple could
[TS]
◼
►
fix us what it is is a circular park
[TS]
◼
►
that has a headphone port like you would
[TS]
◼
►
find on the iphone success on one side a
[TS]
◼
►
lightning port on the other for charging
[TS]
◼
►
and it will convert any headphones into
[TS]
◼
►
bluetooth headphones it doesn't appear
[TS]
◼
►
to have any buttons as far as i can tell
[TS]
◼
►
it does have a little clip on it so you
[TS]
◼
►
can clip it to your clothes
[TS]
◼
►
this is a really really clever idea and
[TS]
◼
►
I really think that this is a pretty
[TS]
◼
►
good way to bridge that gap but what did
[TS]
◼
►
you guys think about it so it's
[TS]
◼
►
interesting that it takes the idea take
[TS]
◼
►
the approach of you know putting it on
[TS]
◼
►
the phone end of the cable and basically
[TS]
◼
►
you plug your headphones into this and
[TS]
◼
►
they still have their flow cables as we
[TS]
◼
►
discussed as I brought up a couple weeks
[TS]
◼
►
you can't really put on the headphone
[TS]
◼
►
end of the cable because there really is
[TS]
◼
►
no standard size or shape cable that
[TS]
◼
►
would fit a large number of headphones
[TS]
◼
►
that would go on that end because they
[TS]
◼
►
all have just these different shape
[TS]
◼
►
plastic surround and everything so
[TS]
◼
►
anyway it is smart to put it on that
[TS]
◼
►
into the cable I will also say that
[TS]
◼
►
these devices already exists you can you
[TS]
◼
►
can go on Amazon you can get things
[TS]
◼
►
because not that would be small
[TS]
◼
►
unattractive and would have apple logos
[TS]
◼
►
on it or we charge by lightning
[TS]
◼
►
those are those will be new here but you
[TS]
◼
►
can get these things already like you
[TS]
◼
►
can go and get him for probably 30 bucks
[TS]
◼
►
you can you can get devices that
[TS]
◼
►
left any end of any audio setup to and
[TS]
◼
►
from bluetooth they're very common and
[TS]
◼
►
some of them even work so it it's not it
[TS]
◼
►
is a weekend we can try this today we
[TS]
◼
►
can see we're already what this is like
[TS]
◼
►
today as long as you don't need to
[TS]
◼
►
charge by lightning
[TS]
◼
►
it is a good idea for the most part
[TS]
◼
►
however first of all having a cable that
[TS]
◼
►
dangles into your clothing but that
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't look into your phone like its it
[TS]
◼
►
kind of seems like another really worth
[TS]
◼
►
having that cable it seems kind of
[TS]
◼
►
clunky but i don't know i mean i-i
[TS]
◼
►
suppose it's better than having to buy
[TS]
◼
►
all new headphones but I don't know it
[TS]
◼
►
seems like a lot of complexity to solve
[TS]
◼
►
this problem if you're going to have a
[TS]
◼
►
wire that goes down into your clothing
[TS]
◼
►
and comes out of your headphones
[TS]
◼
►
why not just have a a wiring adapter
[TS]
◼
►
that can plug directly into the alleged
[TS]
◼
►
lightning port that is headphone
[TS]
◼
►
compatible of the alleged new headphone
[TS]
◼
►
jack atlas iphone 7 you covered all the
[TS]
◼
►
ones i was gonna make which is that
[TS]
◼
►
these things exist already and that it's
[TS]
◼
►
weird to have a wire where you put the
[TS]
◼
►
wire like especially if you have your
[TS]
◼
►
phone in your pocket and then this wire
[TS]
◼
►
with a dongle is also in your pocket
[TS]
◼
►
there like right you have this wire to
[TS]
◼
►
nothing right you have to put it
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere and you know you're gonna have
[TS]
◼
►
a dining hanging from your swinging back
[TS]
◼
►
and forth as you walk so you'll probably
[TS]
◼
►
stick it in the pocket but the reason I
[TS]
◼
►
can think of why I Apple might find a
[TS]
◼
►
solution attractive is that the wired
[TS]
◼
►
after keeping a one-way one-way is that
[TS]
◼
►
if the passive lightning to headphone
[TS]
◼
►
adapter that we've been surmising might
[TS]
◼
►
be possible is not possible then this is
[TS]
◼
►
probably better than trying to make an
[TS]
◼
►
adapter with a chip in it like try to
[TS]
◼
►
make an appt reactive adapter it's more
[TS]
◼
►
a polite than trying to make an active
[TS]
◼
►
adapter probably but even if the passive
[TS]
◼
►
thing does work the passive thing I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know if you can sell the passive
[TS]
◼
►
thing for thirty bucks maybe Apple can't
[TS]
◼
►
but what is Apple can sell this for
[TS]
◼
►
money that this little battery bluetooth
[TS]
◼
►
container thing it's what Apple is good
[TS]
◼
►
at making very small simple things that
[TS]
◼
►
don't really have like an on/off switch
[TS]
◼
►
or any complicated you know but inside
[TS]
◼
►
are very very precise and it uses all
[TS]
◼
►
their expertise in terms of making very
[TS]
◼
►
small chips and batteries and all that
[TS]
◼
►
good stuff and they can sell to you for
[TS]
◼
►
and it does seem like a little more
[TS]
◼
►
elegant solution because then your your
[TS]
◼
►
phone could be in one pocket this
[TS]
◼
►
community out there and they're not
[TS]
◼
►
connected to each other
[TS]
◼
►
I can see them selling it as a more
[TS]
◼
►
advanced version of a wiring adapter so
[TS]
◼
►
and this design looks like every time
[TS]
◼
►
you see like a prototype of looks like
[TS]
◼
►
the little watch it after basically a
[TS]
◼
►
little circular thing we can have a logo
[TS]
◼
►
on it a little think they'll put a giant
[TS]
◼
►
Apple look like that on it but who knows
[TS]
◼
►
it looks like an apple product looks
[TS]
◼
►
like an apple product they could sell as
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculous as it may be especially like
[TS]
◼
►
put a clip on the back of it like this
[TS]
◼
►
guy's got a clip to his pants waist band
[TS]
◼
►
or something that is not a good look
[TS]
◼
►
well i don't know i think it means it
[TS]
◼
►
any worse than clipping an ipod shuffle
[TS]
◼
►
yes it looks plausible to me as an apple
[TS]
◼
►
project i think they can sell it for
[TS]
◼
►
more money so especially if they can't
[TS]
◼
►
do a passive adapter i think this is a
[TS]
◼
►
reasonable option the battle might want
[TS]
◼
►
to consider and as you pointed out if
[TS]
◼
►
apple doesn't do it is a million third
[TS]
◼
►
party ones that are already making it
[TS]
◼
►
they're going to be excited by an iphone
[TS]
◼
►
with no headphone jacks right now we
[TS]
◼
►
have a new audience to advertise to hey
[TS]
◼
►
just get one of those new phones by our
[TS]
◼
►
little square dongle we've been selling
[TS]
◼
►
for five years yet another thing you
[TS]
◼
►
gotta charge and spend 30 books and now
[TS]
◼
►
charges through the charges through
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I don't know it's that it seems
[TS]
◼
►
like this is too clunky of a solution
[TS]
◼
►
like I I feel like Apple solutions are
[TS]
◼
►
going to be either by new headphones or
[TS]
◼
►
use this passive wire adapter and you're
[TS]
◼
►
sure that the path of our adapter is
[TS]
◼
►
going to be possible
[TS]
◼
►
no I mean but if that rumor so it was
[TS]
◼
►
true that they were going to have this
[TS]
◼
►
thing it's already possible today if you
[TS]
◼
►
put some smarts in the adapter you can
[TS]
◼
►
do it on today's lightning port with
[TS]
◼
►
some circuitry and some smarts there so
[TS]
◼
►
we already know such thing as possible
[TS]
◼
►
it would be better if it could be
[TS]
◼
►
passive and if the phone could sense it
[TS]
◼
►
through a new revision of the port and i
[TS]
◼
►
agree but i'm just i'm not sure i'm not
[TS]
◼
►
sure how Apple would prioritize that
[TS]
◼
►
like it's really important to make sure
[TS]
◼
►
we can have passive adapters or just
[TS]
◼
►
going to say you know just deal with it
[TS]
◼
►
and getting headphones everybody get new
[TS]
◼
►
headphones in three years you don't care
[TS]
◼
►
yes so when we go in tailgate which
[TS]
◼
►
we've spoken about on the show in the
[TS]
◼
►
past I have a TK boom box which is
[TS]
◼
►
actually the model for this
[TS]
◼
►
speaker thing and it doesn't have any
[TS]
◼
►
bluetooth support on it and so years ago
[TS]
◼
►
i got this absolutely terrible like $13
[TS]
◼
►
blue to AGP tech bluetooth adapter i'll
[TS]
◼
►
put a link in the show notes even though
[TS]
◼
►
i don't think it's available anymore
[TS]
◼
►
it is a total piece of crap but it works
[TS]
◼
►
perfectly and so it's like the build
[TS]
◼
►
quality is terrible it's very chancy
[TS]
◼
►
looking so think of like a USB key that
[TS]
◼
►
has a headphone jack on the outside of
[TS]
◼
►
it and no plugs into a USB on the other
[TS]
◼
►
side so what i do is i plug this into a
[TS]
◼
►
USB port that is on the speaker on this
[TS]
◼
►
TK boombox and this receives bluetooth
[TS]
◼
►
and then i plug the this little
[TS]
◼
►
headphone cable from this bluetooth to
[TS]
◼
►
RCA converter basically into the
[TS]
◼
►
headphone cable goes from there to the
[TS]
◼
►
boombox and suddenly this boom box that
[TS]
◼
►
has no bluetooth support has bluetooth
[TS]
◼
►
supports this is the other direction
[TS]
◼
►
then what we're talking about but to
[TS]
◼
►
your point earlier Marco you can go
[TS]
◼
►
either way with this and it was $13 and
[TS]
◼
►
I mean it is a piece of crap that's been
[TS]
◼
►
working perfectly for three years so I
[TS]
◼
►
guess is it really that crappy ask hall
[TS]
◼
►
but yeah it works well in and so you
[TS]
◼
►
you'd be surprised what you can do for
[TS]
◼
►
not a lot of money
[TS]
◼
►
it's like I was invisible fences for
[TS]
◼
►
your pets on this is invisible wire some
[TS]
◼
►
of the Prancing like like we're saying
[TS]
◼
►
that like what's the point of having a
[TS]
◼
►
little wire with a dongle that you stick
[TS]
◼
►
in your pocket clip on your pants like
[TS]
◼
►
three inches away from your phone is
[TS]
◼
►
like there are still some advantages for
[TS]
◼
►
that absurd scenario mostly is that like
[TS]
◼
►
when you want to take out your phone and
[TS]
◼
►
do something there's not a wire attached
[TS]
◼
►
to it i mean i guess probably people are
[TS]
◼
►
you know we used to listening on wired
[TS]
◼
►
headphones are good at taking out their
[TS]
◼
►
phone to send a quick text or see
[TS]
◼
►
something or whatever without wrangling
[TS]
◼
►
the wire but it is i think i keep
[TS]
◼
►
thinking of it as a as a luxurious
[TS]
◼
►
features like that the fact that the two
[TS]
◼
►
are connected anymore they are now
[TS]
◼
►
connected with an invisible wire even
[TS]
◼
►
though there's a stupid real wire still
[TS]
◼
►
in play because again you're using your
[TS]
◼
►
old headphones and they don't support
[TS]
◼
►
this new phone it is still a slightly
[TS]
◼
►
more luxurious experience to be able to
[TS]
◼
►
take out your phone without a wire
[TS]
◼
►
do it invisible wires are better than
[TS]
◼
►
wires in general manager you can get
[TS]
◼
►
other wires entirely which I'm apple
[TS]
◼
►
will surely sell your blues headphones
[TS]
◼
►
to do that but if you can't because you
[TS]
◼
►
want to use your old headphones for
[TS]
◼
►
whatever reason a dongle like this as
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculous as it seems i think it does
[TS]
◼
►
actually have offer some material
[TS]
◼
►
advantages to the point where i'm
[TS]
◼
►
thinking like maybe i would go is my big
[TS]
◼
►
problem is like when I'm walking from
[TS]
◼
►
the parking garage to work very often my
[TS]
◼
►
headphone cord gets caught him like a
[TS]
◼
►
door handle going through like the
[TS]
◼
►
garage doors are up in the stairwells at
[TS]
◼
►
work or whatever and ends up yanking the
[TS]
◼
►
headphones either out of my ears are out
[TS]
◼
►
of my phone or both
[TS]
◼
►
I would like it if i could i mean
[TS]
◼
►
obviously my solutions just use
[TS]
◼
►
bluetooth headphones right yeah just use
[TS]
◼
►
bluetooth headphones yeah I i use
[TS]
◼
►
earbuds that I don't want to look like a
[TS]
◼
►
girl with the big thing coming out of my
[TS]
◼
►
ear with that anyway they have smaller
[TS]
◼
►
things that you look get the sennheiser
[TS]
◼
►
and I'm 400ex it is really basic it's
[TS]
◼
►
like 750 bucks as their buds it's not
[TS]
◼
►
everybody know it's it's it's the it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's the new version I i use for my for
[TS]
◼
►
any kind of walking and often even
[TS]
◼
►
travel purposes i bring my the president
[TS]
◼
►
which is the sennheiser PX 2 10 BTW
[TS]
◼
►
which is long since discontinued but the
[TS]
◼
►
40mm 400ex is seemingly the exact same
[TS]
◼
►
thing but with a microphone and so you
[TS]
◼
►
can make phone calls on it and these
[TS]
◼
►
sound like complete garbage for music
[TS]
◼
►
purposes but for podcasts they're great
[TS]
◼
►
because they have actual hardware
[TS]
◼
►
buttons on the side so there is so
[TS]
◼
►
they're small they fold up they can fit
[TS]
◼
►
in any large jacket pocket and any bag
[TS]
◼
►
very very easily not a pants pocket too
[TS]
◼
►
big for that but there otherwise they're
[TS]
◼
►
great battery life is great they charge
[TS]
◼
►
for a microUSB you can get new batteries
[TS]
◼
►
for them if you want to like separate
[TS]
◼
►
batteries and it did they have these
[TS]
◼
►
amazingly useful buttons actual buttons
[TS]
◼
►
like not just like a capacitive touch
[TS]
◼
►
pad which is infuriating not some little
[TS]
◼
►
tiny switches you can operate them with
[TS]
◼
►
gloves on in the winter because the
[TS]
◼
►
buttons are nice and big and they make
[TS]
◼
►
sense where they are
[TS]
◼
►
it's i listen to sai listen to these
[TS]
◼
►
exclusively when I'm when I'm walking
[TS]
◼
►
with my uncle always listen to podcast
[TS]
◼
►
some call it doesn't matter and they are
[TS]
◼
►
so much better than anything else I've
[TS]
◼
►
ever tried for for portable podcast
[TS]
◼
►
I like my earbuds with my little clicker
[TS]
◼
►
on the wire that's another where the
[TS]
◼
►
clicker go if I didn't have a wire like
[TS]
◼
►
I'm goes to the earcup I just know I
[TS]
◼
►
like to clear clear
[TS]
◼
►
going down where it is anyway the point
[TS]
◼
►
is i think i would actually find this
[TS]
◼
►
vaguely useful if it existed so much so
[TS]
◼
►
that maybe i should just buy one of
[TS]
◼
►
those ones is already an amazon and give
[TS]
◼
►
it a try but maybe I'll just hold out to
[TS]
◼
►
see if Apple because one for twenty
[TS]
◼
►
bucks will have a bluetooth earbuds and
[TS]
◼
►
maybe that will solve my problems if
[TS]
◼
►
you'd like to not spend two hundred
[TS]
◼
►
dollars on a set up bluetooth headphones
[TS]
◼
►
my beloved Arctic PP 311 that I've had
[TS]
◼
►
for like four years are still going
[TS]
◼
►
strong i use them for music i use them
[TS]
◼
►
for podcast they will not make Marco
[TS]
◼
►
happy I'm sure from an audio files
[TS]
◼
►
perspective they are terrible but if you
[TS]
◼
►
don't have hyper-intense requirements if
[TS]
◼
►
you're not mark warm and they're like 30
[TS]
◼
►
bucks and might have been going strong
[TS]
◼
►
for years now that i think about it
[TS]
◼
►
bluetooth earbuds wouldn't help because
[TS]
◼
►
again wherever the clicker be I really
[TS]
◼
►
got new so I think the ipod shuffle
[TS]
◼
►
killed me that bottle water cup know
[TS]
◼
►
that my Chapel didn't is not your
[TS]
◼
►
company or bugs are ya use mine with the
[TS]
◼
►
buttons are right there it's it's even
[TS]
◼
►
it's easier and more reliable than using
[TS]
◼
►
the clicker headphones us too much i
[TS]
◼
►
can't i don't know i can't pull that off
[TS]
◼
►
but it is too much to have big giant
[TS]
◼
►
headphones on as big as you think
[TS]
◼
►
try the p3 11 when they also have the
[TS]
◼
►
buttons already 30 just saying anyway
[TS]
◼
►
point is this is this is this concept i
[TS]
◼
►
think it's not entirely really rude and
[TS]
◼
►
of apple doesn't make one maybe I'll buy
[TS]
◼
►
one and give it a try
[TS]
◼
►
hey we should talk about bagels
[TS]
◼
►
Squarespace responsible people
[TS]
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►
Squarespace start building your website
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today at squarespace.com enter offer
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code ATP at checkout to get ten percent
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Squarespace lets you make professionally
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designed site regardless of skill level
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no coding required with intuitive
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easy-to-use tools
[TS]
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what-you-see-is-what-you-get editing
[TS]
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everything x total sense you just edit
[TS]
◼
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right there in the page as you're
[TS]
◼
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looking at it and everything shows up
[TS]
◼
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previews everything live right there as
[TS]
◼
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you edit it you can change colors and
[TS]
◼
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fonts and blocks and layout and
[TS]
◼
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everything all with a simple easy-to-use
[TS]
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although if you want to get down into
[TS]
◼
►
the code and everything you can do that
[TS]
◼
►
they have both injectable CSS and
[TS]
◼
►
JavaScript as well as a whole developer
[TS]
◼
►
platform if you want to go really deep
[TS]
◼
►
into it you get a free domain name if
[TS]
◼
►
you sign up for a whole year up front
[TS]
◼
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this is really a very powerful platform
[TS]
◼
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they have over there Squarespace
[TS]
◼
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tons of people trusted millions of
[TS]
◼
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customers including some of the biggest
[TS]
◼
►
brands in the world trust with their
[TS]
◼
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website hosting because they host
[TS]
◼
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everything for you
[TS]
◼
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they support everything for you they
[TS]
◼
►
manage everything you don't have to
[TS]
◼
►
manage some installation of a CMS on
[TS]
◼
►
your own servers or anything like that
[TS]
◼
►
they manage it all for you
[TS]
◼
►
they have great support if you need it
[TS]
◼
►
there's people answering email all the
[TS]
◼
►
time from all these different locations
[TS]
◼
►
around the world they have amazing
[TS]
◼
►
support if you need it all this is
[TS]
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squarespace.com if you go there today
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make sure to use the offer code ATP to
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Squarespace build a beautiful so I've
[TS]
◼
►
had a big week so far
[TS]
◼
►
yes so tell us about this what what
[TS]
◼
►
exactly happened in your own words Casey
[TS]
◼
►
described for the audience what happened
[TS]
◼
►
i'm so yeah so this past monday i
[TS]
◼
►
started a new job i took last week
[TS]
◼
►
almost entirely off i had a week of
[TS]
◼
►
self-directed funemployment i went into
[TS]
◼
►
my old job on monday for a few hours
[TS]
◼
►
spent the remainder of last week just
[TS]
◼
►
kind of relaxing and taking a break and
[TS]
◼
►
then on monday i started a new job as an
[TS]
◼
►
iOS developer which is completely scary
[TS]
◼
►
and completely awesome to recap in case
[TS]
◼
►
you're unfamiliar with my professional
[TS]
◼
►
exploits I had been working at a
[TS]
◼
►
consulting firm doing got that stuff for
[TS]
◼
►
between three and a half years and in
[TS]
◼
►
four years and I did like it but my
[TS]
◼
►
heart wasn't really in not anymore i
[TS]
◼
►
really do love c-sharp hand on heart i
[TS]
◼
►
love c-sharp I think csharp is great i
[TS]
◼
►
really do love visual studio I think
[TS]
◼
►
visual studio is great but everything
[TS]
◼
►
around hat i just couldn't care less
[TS]
◼
►
like it just didn't do anything for me
[TS]
◼
►
and when i was hired at this look at
[TS]
◼
►
this job i was told hey you know you're
[TS]
◼
►
gonna be our iOS guy and I was the iOS
[TS]
◼
►
guy which is good but the problem was we
[TS]
◼
►
only ever landed one bit of iOS work and
[TS]
◼
►
as when it's a consulting firm you don't
[TS]
◼
►
typically have the luxury of working on
[TS]
◼
►
what you want to work on you work on
[TS]
◼
►
what you're told to work on
[TS]
◼
►
and that means a client will tell the
[TS]
◼
►
company we will give you money to work
[TS]
◼
►
on this thing and the company tells the
[TS]
◼
►
consultants you know to the company my
[TS]
◼
►
company tells us
[TS]
◼
►
ok it's time to work on this thing and
[TS]
◼
►
it just so happened that the only time i
[TS]
◼
►
ever did and iOS app was several years
[TS]
◼
►
ago when I didn't ipad app and it was
[TS]
◼
►
for all the wrong reasons and executive
[TS]
◼
►
decided we should be in the app store
[TS]
◼
►
even though this we don't really have
[TS]
◼
►
anything useful to offer and so we built
[TS]
◼
►
an app to put in the app store anyway so
[TS]
◼
►
I had been I hadn't been unhappy
[TS]
◼
►
necessarily but I had been terribly
[TS]
◼
►
happy and I just was trying to figure
[TS]
◼
►
out you know what I do and it's hard
[TS]
◼
►
especially when you're consulting but
[TS]
◼
►
it's hard in general I mean I kinda know
[TS]
◼
►
how to write code for iOS UI I know
[TS]
◼
►
objective-c reasonably well for someone
[TS]
◼
►
who doesn't do it professionally I sort
[TS]
◼
►
of kind of ish no Swift hey so it's a
[TS]
◼
►
hard thing to sell any employer on
[TS]
◼
►
teaching you how to do this stuff on the
[TS]
◼
►
job unless the employers for some reason
[TS]
◼
►
incentivized for you to learn this on
[TS]
◼
►
the job so for example if if my
[TS]
◼
►
consulting firm had gotten a contract to
[TS]
◼
►
iOS work and suddenly my employer that
[TS]
◼
►
the consultancy will be hugely
[TS]
◼
►
incentivize for me to learn on the job
[TS]
◼
►
but it's pretty hard for them to sell me
[TS]
◼
►
as a supposed expert when I'm not really
[TS]
◼
►
an expert and typically when you're
[TS]
◼
►
going to a consulting firm you're
[TS]
◼
►
looking for experts so it wasn't it was
[TS]
◼
►
clear to me that was really a workout if
[TS]
◼
►
I really really really wanted to pivot
[TS]
◼
►
to iOS it was good work at the
[TS]
◼
►
consulting firm and so a friend of mine
[TS]
◼
►
a mutual friend between mark and I
[TS]
◼
►
friend named Jamie he had just gone to a
[TS]
◼
►
local company here in town that their
[TS]
◼
►
bread and butter is not iOS but they
[TS]
◼
►
have their own iOS app that is part of
[TS]
◼
►
their product offering and he had been
[TS]
◼
►
saying hey you should come join me to
[TS]
◼
►
come join me to come join me and finally
[TS]
◼
►
I was like you know what I should come
[TS]
◼
►
join you and so I interviewed and I got
[TS]
◼
►
the job I was very plain about what I do
[TS]
◼
►
not know about iOS but what school was
[TS]
◼
►
great about my new gig is they
[TS]
◼
►
stay you seem like you're pretty darn
[TS]
◼
►
good engineer one of our engineers are
[TS]
◼
►
saying you're a pretty good engineer
[TS]
◼
►
sorry doctoring and so we have faith
[TS]
◼
►
that whatever you don't know you can
[TS]
◼
►
pick up so let's do this and I started
[TS]
◼
►
this past Monday and I'm really gotten
[TS]
◼
►
into too much code yet but so far so
[TS]
◼
►
good and it is blowing my mind that the
[TS]
◼
►
things that we talked about here and the
[TS]
◼
►
things that I've been pumping into my
[TS]
◼
►
ears by way of Marcos other show and by
[TS]
◼
►
way of yellow corn tuition in by way of
[TS]
◼
►
mobile couch and in so many of these
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly this stuff that I've just long
[TS]
◼
►
I'm now doing and its really really
[TS]
◼
►
exciting and I'm petrified because I'm
[TS]
◼
►
used to it also pretty darn good on a
[TS]
◼
►
developer not the best but pretty darn
[TS]
◼
►
good and I wasn't often scared by the
[TS]
◼
►
things i was asked to do in my
[TS]
◼
►
day-to-day job and now i am not a pretty
[TS]
◼
►
darn good iOS developer i'm i'm at worst
[TS]
◼
►
a rocky and it best in intermediate
[TS]
◼
►
level iOS developer and so I'm reaching
[TS]
◼
►
on this and then that's really really
[TS]
◼
►
scary but i found that that's the best
[TS]
◼
►
way to force myself to learn is to go
[TS]
◼
►
straight into the deep end and just
[TS]
◼
►
learn how to swim so I'm excited I'm
[TS]
◼
►
excited just selfishly because this is
[TS]
◼
►
what I've been wanting to do for a long
[TS]
◼
►
time i'm excited for the show because i
[TS]
◼
►
think even though we don't get that deep
[TS]
◼
►
into the developer topics that often
[TS]
◼
►
it'll be nice to have someone else who
[TS]
◼
►
does this sort of thing for a living
[TS]
◼
►
other the marco and I'm just excited to
[TS]
◼
►
learn something new because I've been
[TS]
◼
►
doing the same stuff for a long time and
[TS]
◼
►
last really new thing i learned if you
[TS]
◼
►
don't count sum react that I was
[TS]
◼
►
dabbling with maybe a year ago was when
[TS]
◼
►
i taught myself node for for my blog and
[TS]
◼
►
that was in 2014 so it's about time for
[TS]
◼
►
me to to get scared and learn something
[TS]
◼
►
new so i don't know if you guys have any
[TS]
◼
►
questions about that if not we can put
[TS]
◼
►
in the parking lot
[TS]
◼
►
don't have my first question David
[TS]
◼
►
I've not seen one yet I have not seen
[TS]
◼
►
yet but I'm sure it's there
[TS]
◼
►
anyway but if you have any questions I'm
[TS]
◼
►
happy to feel them otherwise we can just
[TS]
◼
►
move right along to talk about the tech
[TS]
◼
►
differences of like c-sharp vs
[TS]
◼
►
objective-c and you know the different
[TS]
◼
►
ID and all that stuff whatever but
[TS]
◼
►
setting that aside like getting back to
[TS]
◼
►
the doing consulting work versus doing a
[TS]
◼
►
no I think you covered this in your blog
[TS]
◼
►
post like the idea of the consulting
[TS]
◼
►
work is sometimes you get a crappy job
[TS]
◼
►
but the job ends and sometimes you get a
[TS]
◼
►
good job that job ends too but with
[TS]
◼
►
product work I imagine you know without
[TS]
◼
►
going into details of what kind of
[TS]
◼
►
product you're making your kind of
[TS]
◼
►
company you're working for
[TS]
◼
►
it's conceivable that you could get to
[TS]
◼
►
be in iOS developer dedicated to working
[TS]
◼
►
on a product that does nothing for you
[TS]
◼
►
the product is like dominoes developer
[TS]
◼
►
and i'm working on a product but I don't
[TS]
◼
►
care about this product at all i don't
[TS]
◼
►
have any passion for this product
[TS]
◼
►
I don't you know and the customers who
[TS]
◼
►
use this product not really into the
[TS]
◼
►
product and then how could I do my job
[TS]
◼
►
never gonna really appreciate it because
[TS]
◼
►
it's like you know an industrial machine
[TS]
◼
►
control thing or something where it's
[TS]
◼
►
just not you know I mean and that case
[TS]
◼
►
you would be using new technology you'll
[TS]
◼
►
be learning things you could technically
[TS]
◼
►
be an iOS developer but i'm thinking
[TS]
◼
►
it's like imagine if like your worst
[TS]
◼
►
consulting gig just never end never
[TS]
◼
►
ended so is as part of your decision to
[TS]
◼
►
go to the specific company the idea that
[TS]
◼
►
would like would you care what the
[TS]
◼
►
practice really like is it isn't just
[TS]
◼
►
better that it is a product that you can
[TS]
◼
►
like work on incremental make better
[TS]
◼
►
year over year over year even if it's
[TS]
◼
►
boring product or do you also kinda
[TS]
◼
►
needed to be a product that interests
[TS]
◼
►
you more than like you're at least
[TS]
◼
►
interesting consulting gig you know it's
[TS]
◼
►
a very fair question i think i have to
[TS]
◼
►
reach back just a half step and explain
[TS]
◼
►
that I've been doing some flavor of
[TS]
◼
►
consulting since roughly 2006 it's been
[TS]
◼
►
about a decade now the first couple
[TS]
◼
►
years from 06 28 i was doing government
[TS]
◼
►
contracting which is not exactly
[TS]
◼
►
consulting i was working for a company
[TS]
◼
►
that had a product but the only
[TS]
◼
►
literally the only people that bought
[TS]
◼
►
that product was the US government so
[TS]
◼
►
really what ended up happening was the
[TS]
◼
►
government said hey we want this new
[TS]
◼
►
feature and we said okay we'll do that
[TS]
◼
►
and so is basically consulting after
[TS]
◼
►
that it was just a regular no no aster
[TS]
◼
►
risks honest business consultants and
[TS]
◼
►
from my weight on and i found that there
[TS]
◼
►
have definitely been some projects where
[TS]
◼
►
the client was awesome and the project
[TS]
◼
►
was a lot of fun and eventually what
[TS]
◼
►
ends up happening is as you described
[TS]
◼
►
John the client either can stand on
[TS]
◼
►
their own two feet so to speak or they
[TS]
◼
►
feel like that that product is complete
[TS]
◼
►
enough for now and then they say alright
[TS]
◼
►
thanks for your time we'll see you later
[TS]
◼
►
and that's a total bummer because here's
[TS]
◼
►
something that you really invested in
[TS]
◼
►
the kind of consulting i was doing i
[TS]
◼
►
should also note is typically
[TS]
◼
►
project-based so it was myself in a
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of my co-workers at the consulting
[TS]
◼
►
firm would swoop in do a project and
[TS]
◼
►
swooped out it and of course we would be
[TS]
◼
►
working alongside the client but the
[TS]
◼
►
overwhelming majority of the work was
[TS]
◼
►
done by the people at my consulting firm
[TS]
◼
►
it's not like your individual
[TS]
◼
►
consultants who is just an individual
[TS]
◼
►
contributor it's and this is where the
[TS]
◼
►
staff of thing came in a couple months
[TS]
◼
►
back and so typically the project is
[TS]
◼
►
consulting you know you build this
[TS]
◼
►
project with you people with your
[TS]
◼
►
friends at work and then it's like okay
[TS]
◼
►
thanks and then you leave and that's a
[TS]
◼
►
and even though it's nice to know that
[TS]
◼
►
you have it that that each project is in
[TS]
◼
►
subject to some degree a ticking time
[TS]
◼
►
bomb because eventually it will go away
[TS]
◼
►
both the good and the bad
[TS]
◼
►
it's nice to think about I i really
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to try walking on the grass on
[TS]
◼
►
the other side of the fence and I wanted
[TS]
◼
►
to see is is a product company really
[TS]
◼
►
what I wanted and really what I want and
[TS]
◼
►
let me give you a really weird the
[TS]
◼
►
concrete example of why I wanted this so
[TS]
◼
►
i believe it's my first day it was my
[TS]
◼
►
first day that the new job and we
[TS]
◼
►
actually had this like all hands meeting
[TS]
◼
►
off site which was just pure completely
[TS]
◼
►
coincidental and so we were in a
[TS]
◼
►
different portion of richmond at this
[TS]
◼
►
all hands and then we needed to come
[TS]
◼
►
back to the office afterwards and we
[TS]
◼
►
were traveling from the All Hands i was
[TS]
◼
►
at a hotel to the office and I got stop
[TS]
◼
►
this Lite that typically will take two
[TS]
◼
►
or three cycles for me to get through
[TS]
◼
►
particular time of day was around
[TS]
◼
►
lunchtime and this is right by a bunch
[TS]
◼
►
of other business right by a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
businesses and a bunch of eateries so
[TS]
◼
►
everyone's going to or coming back from
[TS]
◼
►
lunch and as I'm sitting at this light
[TS]
◼
►
I'm thinking to myself oh my god this is
[TS]
◼
►
taking so long i got this taking so long
[TS]
◼
►
i have to make up this time because oh
[TS]
◼
►
god I'm sitting here for like 10 minutes
[TS]
◼
►
and it's one thing if you set it alight
[TS]
◼
►
for like a minute you can just kind of
[TS]
◼
►
flubbed that and you know whatever a
[TS]
◼
►
client is going to care if you build
[TS]
◼
►
them for one minute where you weren't
[TS]
◼
►
actually doing work
[TS]
◼
►
this is like 10 minutes and i'm really I
[TS]
◼
►
can't build a client for this 10 minutes
[TS]
◼
►
and so I'm now I have to stay at work 10
[TS]
◼
►
minutes later than I plant a wait wait
[TS]
◼
►
don't have a timesheet anymore but not
[TS]
◼
►
working for a client anymore
[TS]
◼
►
oh my god i don't have to give a shit
[TS]
◼
►
this takes an hour because i don't have
[TS]
◼
►
to answer to anyone anymore what not
[TS]
◼
►
literally of course we don't mean this
[TS]
◼
►
is magnificent and it's just stupid
[TS]
◼
►
I'm just kind of I was ready to take a
[TS]
◼
►
break from consulting and who knows
[TS]
◼
►
maybe in a year or two maybe I'll 1099
[TS]
◼
►
and i'll just go in if you're not an
[TS]
◼
►
American basically i'll be an
[TS]
◼
►
independent consultant and maybe i'll go
[TS]
◼
►
back to a consulting firm who knows but
[TS]
◼
►
for right now all my god it was magical
[TS]
◼
►
not to have to stress about sitting in a
[TS]
◼
►
stupid light for 10 minutes and to come
[TS]
◼
►
back around to Jon's question a little
[TS]
◼
►
more concretely i'm really really amped
[TS]
◼
►
to work on a product period but i agree
[TS]
◼
►
with you John that if the product was
[TS]
◼
►
something like industrial control system
[TS]
◼
►
it was not likely to keep my attention
[TS]
◼
►
now with that said I I don't intend to
[TS]
◼
►
share what my employer who my employer
[TS]
◼
►
is more what I'm working on
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know it's just I'd prefer to
[TS]
◼
►
keep that that world separate but i will
[TS]
◼
►
say that the particular thing that I'm
[TS]
◼
►
although it is not for me it is for a
[TS]
◼
►
general audience and depending on what
[TS]
◼
►
lens you use to look at it I genuinely
[TS]
◼
►
think it's it's helping people and I
[TS]
◼
►
think that's pretty cool being able to
[TS]
◼
►
help people and make a difference in
[TS]
◼
►
people's lives a small difference but a
[TS]
◼
►
difference in the last and so because of
[TS]
◼
►
that I in granted i'm still in the
[TS]
◼
►
honeymoon period but i'm very hopeful
[TS]
◼
►
that I'm really really going to enjoy
[TS]
◼
►
working on this and additionally the
[TS]
◼
►
particular company i'm working for the
[TS]
◼
►
iOS app that i'll be working on it isn't
[TS]
◼
►
it's okay but isn't great but the
[TS]
◼
►
important thing is the company knows
[TS]
◼
►
that it isn't great and they're looking
[TS]
◼
►
to fix it and so I'm getting in on the
[TS]
◼
►
ground floor and being able to influence
[TS]
◼
►
some of those changes in so far as I can
[TS]
◼
►
help make architectural decisions you
[TS]
◼
►
know not as much like oh we should use
[TS]
◼
►
cocoapods vs I'm god what's the other
[TS]
◼
►
one I'm drawing a blank doesn't matter
[TS]
◼
►
who cares it does he have to go copepods
[TS]
◼
►
first Carthage i believe it is going to
[TS]
◼
►
be in charge of all the most boring
[TS]
◼
►
decisions on the software projects right
[TS]
◼
►
yeah well very exactly is gonna be our
[TS]
◼
►
file naming convention
[TS]
◼
►
whoa but you know what i mean like your
[TS]
◼
►
architectural decisions I can work with
[TS]
◼
►
my friend Jamie who is is pretty much
[TS]
◼
►
lead architect I could work with him and
[TS]
◼
►
we have a good rapport because we worked
[TS]
◼
►
together in the past and say hey I
[TS]
◼
►
really like this like that we should go
[TS]
◼
►
that direction or you know this just
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't feel right and and in some ways
[TS]
◼
►
being a little bit ignorant as to how
[TS]
◼
►
iOS development works is kind of an
[TS]
◼
►
advantage for these sorts of discussions
[TS]
◼
►
because i don't have that the background
[TS]
◼
►
knowledge to influence or perhaps taint
[TS]
◼
►
what I think about these decisions and
[TS]
◼
►
so I'm really really amped to work on
[TS]
◼
►
something and work on something for a
[TS]
◼
►
long time which is something which is
[TS]
◼
►
not what I've been doing for the last
[TS]
◼
►
nearly decade does that answer your
[TS]
◼
►
question or did I completely flubbed
[TS]
◼
►
yeah take care what I hadn't even
[TS]
◼
►
thought about the whole time she think
[TS]
◼
►
it shows how much consulting have done
[TS]
◼
►
none but yeah that's gotta be a big
[TS]
◼
►
upgrade and in lifestyle um I got I'm
[TS]
◼
►
feel I've done product work and some
[TS]
◼
►
fashion or another of my entire career
[TS]
◼
►
and it for the most part is better even
[TS]
◼
►
I could even working on a product that
[TS]
◼
►
you're not actually interested in the
[TS]
◼
►
idea of the aforementioned and often
[TS]
◼
►
maligned industrial control software
[TS]
◼
►
that can be interesting to like
[TS]
◼
►
everything can be interesting i think
[TS]
◼
►
that the dark side of product work is
[TS]
◼
►
like like that both the best and the
[TS]
◼
►
worst thing that could ever happen to a
[TS]
◼
►
project you're working on his agency
[TS]
◼
►
become very popular and very important
[TS]
◼
►
to the company and a huge moneymaker you
[TS]
◼
►
think it's not all upside no because
[TS]
◼
►
that means the product will live for a
[TS]
◼
►
long time and we'll have a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
customers and any change to it is
[TS]
◼
►
consequential and if you worked there
[TS]
◼
►
for five years you will it work you know
[TS]
◼
►
if you come five years after that
[TS]
◼
►
happened you will be inheriting a giant
[TS]
◼
►
possibly disgusting-looking codebase
[TS]
◼
►
that nevertheless be treated as the
[TS]
◼
►
yep child and can't be messed with and
[TS]
◼
►
if you were there from the beginning you
[TS]
◼
►
will have created five years worth of
[TS]
◼
►
paint yourself into a corner and making
[TS]
◼
►
dumb decisions that you come to regret
[TS]
◼
►
and now have this giant you know Jenga
[TS]
◼
►
style tower that's a it's teetering but
[TS]
◼
►
nevertheless the entire company is built
[TS]
◼
►
on and you're both responsible for
[TS]
◼
►
having made it this way back when you
[TS]
◼
►
were younger less-experienced you know
[TS]
◼
►
past he was always the worst enemy of
[TS]
◼
►
every programmer and you don't have the
[TS]
◼
►
option to say well you know unless you
[TS]
◼
►
change a different company wanted a
[TS]
◼
►
different project now let's go to
[TS]
◼
►
different products like no this product
[TS]
◼
►
of the company but uh that is what the
[TS]
◼
►
the joys and sorrows of product work but
[TS]
◼
►
you are far from that now especially if
[TS]
◼
►
you are if they have an app now they
[TS]
◼
►
know it's bad so you're kind of getting
[TS]
◼
►
to go in there and clean up just a try
[TS]
◼
►
to keep five years from now Casey in
[TS]
◼
►
mind when you're doing you're gonna get
[TS]
◼
►
the idea and where were like I said we
[TS]
◼
►
re architecting everything and were
[TS]
◼
►
trying to make intelligent decisions as
[TS]
◼
►
to how to do this so that it's
[TS]
◼
►
sustainable so that it's testable which
[TS]
◼
►
i know is marcos favorite thing you know
[TS]
◼
►
unit testing my love you testing
[TS]
◼
►
I test all over my everything yeah
[TS]
◼
►
totally cover exalt my builders can just
[TS]
◼
►
he's I think he's going to get testing
[TS]
◼
►
religion it's gonna be awesome
[TS]
◼
►
he's gonna be like you know what testing
[TS]
◼
►
is actually useful way to something like
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know what's gonna happen but it
[TS]
◼
►
could happen conceivably oh I i was love
[TS]
◼
►
if I already had testing know as a
[TS]
◼
►
weight as a way to development like it
[TS]
◼
►
you know rather than you like you're
[TS]
◼
►
right lines of code you want to see
[TS]
◼
►
those lines go do the thing you wanted
[TS]
◼
►
to do like not entirely test-driven
[TS]
◼
►
development just getting enough of it
[TS]
◼
►
into video doesn't matter if no one else
[TS]
◼
►
like it doesn't it doesn't even matter
[TS]
◼
►
it's just the way I write code from now
[TS]
◼
►
on it is i think everyone can benefit
[TS]
◼
►
from testing and I feel like you will
[TS]
◼
►
make that you'll turn that corner
[TS]
◼
►
eventually we're just waiting for it to
[TS]
◼
►
happen give an infinite time everyone
[TS]
◼
►
could benefit from testing oh here we go
[TS]
◼
►
now you'll be dead that's what happens
[TS]
◼
►
with that but it's conceivable I could
[TS]
◼
►
say that could happen
[TS]
◼
►
oh yeah I don't think testing is a great
[TS]
◼
►
idea that I don't do
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I think that's probably fair
[TS]
◼
►
summary anything else on the a new job
[TS]
◼
►
any other questions are yes the other
[TS]
◼
►
thing that you should point out because
[TS]
◼
►
there was confusion about it and I
[TS]
◼
►
to bring up as another point is that a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of people think like hey I left my
[TS]
◼
►
my job or I had that work in his big
[TS]
◼
►
corporation like a dilbert or wherever
[TS]
◼
►
and now i'm going indie but you're not
[TS]
◼
►
you know don't quite know what indie
[TS]
◼
►
means of it in the market knows but in
[TS]
◼
►
these meetings because he's basically
[TS]
◼
►
been that for a very long time now but
[TS]
◼
►
India's means like you're gonna stop
[TS]
◼
►
well it depends it's kinda like indie
[TS]
◼
►
rock it's kinda get is sending them for
[TS]
◼
►
retired indie rocker independent movies
[TS]
◼
►
like the look of that term especially
[TS]
◼
►
independent movies like started to warp
[TS]
◼
►
as like small independent movies would
[TS]
◼
►
nevertheless be bankrolled by big
[TS]
◼
►
studios on a development but anyway the
[TS]
◼
►
definition of indy for software is
[TS]
◼
►
basically that you write software for a
[TS]
◼
►
company that you own
[TS]
◼
►
it's been money to a little bit by the
[TS]
◼
►
fact that if all your paychecks come
[TS]
◼
►
with a signature that says Apple
[TS]
◼
►
incorporated at the bottom of it are you
[TS]
◼
►
really in d you still kinda handy
[TS]
◼
►
definition was like yeah even if every
[TS]
◼
►
one of your paychecks designed by Apple
[TS]
◼
►
you're still indeed because you get
[TS]
◼
►
decide everything about the product you
[TS]
◼
►
own the product you just are sort of
[TS]
◼
►
outsourcing your distribution and your
[TS]
◼
►
entire relationship with your customers
[TS]
◼
►
many other things to apple but you're
[TS]
◼
►
still in DC but the bottom line is that
[TS]
◼
►
and also what comes with it is like you
[TS]
◼
►
you run the show you make the decisions
[TS]
◼
►
and you're not running a hundred person
[TS]
◼
►
company like is you know are the heads
[TS]
◼
►
of all the omni group indie no not
[TS]
◼
►
really i've got a company we've got a
[TS]
◼
►
mac software company in iOS software
[TS]
◼
►
company that a lot of people work for
[TS]
◼
►
can you be ended with two people
[TS]
◼
►
probably two or three maybe you're
[TS]
◼
►
pushing it but the idea is that
[TS]
◼
►
essentially you are your own boss or
[TS]
◼
►
something very close to it and so in
[TS]
◼
►
that case if you worked on a project for
[TS]
◼
►
a long time and you kind of got sick of
[TS]
◼
►
it even if it was selling well because
[TS]
◼
►
you're indeed you could say you know i'm
[TS]
◼
►
going to something else now as long as
[TS]
◼
►
the next thing you do also sells well as
[TS]
◼
►
long as you have some sort of transition
[TS]
◼
►
plan for supporting the other one or
[TS]
◼
►
maybe you sell it to somebody like
[TS]
◼
►
market loves to do
[TS]
◼
►
that's fine you can do that whereas if
[TS]
◼
►
you're in a company especially if you're
[TS]
◼
►
like a public company with shareholders
[TS]
◼
►
and everything is scaled up and people
[TS]
◼
►
care about you like well i tried
[TS]
◼
►
different product now this one is
[TS]
◼
►
perfectly fine its profitable but i'm
[TS]
◼
►
kinda bored of it that doesn't happen
[TS]
◼
►
so this is something that the group
[TS]
◼
►
called an arc along time ago the life
[TS]
◼
►
capital T capital L i think it was in
[TS]
◼
►
reference to bring Simmons from stopping
[TS]
◼
►
the newswire development
[TS]
◼
►
he probably sort of in the the post
[TS]
◼
►
Internet age sort of made the time when
[TS]
◼
►
Apple is on an upswing there was a
[TS]
◼
►
resurgent in the old ideas the ideas
[TS]
◼
►
exist for a long time but it was a
[TS]
◼
►
resurgent and the popularization of the
[TS]
◼
►
idea thanks to the internet and blogs
[TS]
◼
►
that if you're a computer programmer who
[TS]
◼
►
like the apple stuff you could make a
[TS]
◼
►
pretty good living for yourself by
[TS]
◼
►
writing programs that other people who
[TS]
◼
►
use apple stuff would buy from you and
[TS]
◼
►
they would give you money and you would
[TS]
◼
►
give them software and if you can get
[TS]
◼
►
enough of them to do that through the
[TS]
◼
►
magic of software like it's not any
[TS]
◼
►
harder work for you to sell an
[TS]
◼
►
application 200 people versus a thousand
[TS]
◼
►
verses potentially a million because
[TS]
◼
►
it's our bits and you copy them and you
[TS]
◼
►
don't have to manufacture them and
[TS]
◼
►
there's no incremental cost him you know
[TS]
◼
►
all the wonderful things about software
[TS]
◼
►
that you can do a certain amount of work
[TS]
◼
►
and the amount of work that you have to
[TS]
◼
►
do does not scale with a number of
[TS]
◼
►
customers you do the work and then if
[TS]
◼
►
ten people buy you the same amount of
[TS]
◼
►
work is it as if 20 or 30-year hundred
[TS]
◼
►
and so people can make really good
[TS]
◼
►
livings selling software they were their
[TS]
◼
►
they got to do something good they
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to do they got immense
[TS]
◼
►
satisfaction of that and out of it and
[TS]
◼
►
it was you know that's the life he was
[TS]
◼
►
referring to iOS gave a different view
[TS]
◼
►
of that but at this point I think
[TS]
◼
►
everyone who's involved in this
[TS]
◼
►
ecosystem would agree that is slightly
[TS]
◼
►
harder to live the life it is slightly
[TS]
◼
►
harder to being independent software
[TS]
◼
►
developer who makes the they're living
[TS]
◼
►
doing that if only because the market is
[TS]
◼
►
so much more crowd we talked about this
[TS]
◼
►
maybe this podcast maybe the ones nobody
[TS]
◼
►
distant past of like if you're doing
[TS]
◼
►
something that is really fun and a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of other people want to do it because
[TS]
◼
►
that's going to drive down the value of
[TS]
◼
►
the thing you're doing a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
students want to make an iOS application
[TS]
◼
►
for fun and give it away for free or
[TS]
◼
►
close to free and you say well but I've
[TS]
◼
►
got to feed my family I can't afford to
[TS]
◼
►
give away you know like like the value
[TS]
◼
►
of what you're doing is being driven
[TS]
◼
►
down because there are more people in
[TS]
◼
►
the market so it makes it harder for a
[TS]
◼
►
regular person who wants a family
[TS]
◼
►
in healthcare and everything to be able
[TS]
◼
►
to make a living as an independent
[TS]
◼
►
software developers not getting to the
[TS]
◼
►
point where it's like being a
[TS]
◼
►
professional athlete were so small now
[TS]
◼
►
can do it but it's getting more to the
[TS]
◼
►
point where it's like a regular job
[TS]
◼
►
where it's not like if you're a decent
[TS]
◼
►
programmer and you find a market needs
[TS]
◼
►
not being met and you sell an
[TS]
◼
►
application you're good to go for 20
[TS]
◼
►
years you can just keep selling and
[TS]
◼
►
revising an application for 20 years and
[TS]
◼
►
you'll have a healthy lifestyle like
[TS]
◼
►
those days are past because the market
[TS]
◼
►
is just you know too crowded but my
[TS]
◼
►
question for Casey about his new job is
[TS]
◼
►
maybe you didn't think about that now
[TS]
◼
►
because you're like I don't know enough
[TS]
◼
►
about iOS development but my question is
[TS]
◼
►
does that still appeal to you as sort of
[TS]
◼
►
the real polar opposite grass is greener
[TS]
◼
►
on the other side of the fence from
[TS]
◼
►
going from the consulting world-building
[TS]
◼
►
world where you have to go where they
[TS]
◼
►
tell you you have to track your hours
[TS]
◼
►
here you know different clients are your
[TS]
◼
►
masters at various times and the far
[TS]
◼
►
past its side is marcos life where you
[TS]
◼
►
call the shots you decide what you're
[TS]
◼
►
going to make and you build it your way
[TS]
◼
►
on your schedule in your time and find a
[TS]
◼
►
way to make that a viable living that
[TS]
◼
►
ever that this does that still ppl i try
[TS]
◼
►
to find a way to make it a viable living
[TS]
◼
►
it doesn't always work
[TS]
◼
►
I make things my way I call the shots
[TS]
◼
►
but then the market decides whether to
[TS]
◼
►
pay me or not yeah but like you have you
[TS]
◼
►
know if for the most part you've been
[TS]
◼
►
successful doing that like I said it's
[TS]
◼
►
not an easy thing to do like it's not
[TS]
◼
►
like you're going to know how many how
[TS]
◼
►
many people do you know who are still
[TS]
◼
►
living in the indie life of my question
[TS]
◼
►
four cases does that and I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
honestly I'm not even sure I am anymore
[TS]
◼
►
that's fine you don't ok I I know what
[TS]
◼
►
you mean but I think ab store economics
[TS]
◼
►
are such that it is very very hard to do
[TS]
◼
►
that anymore and and i think the number
[TS]
◼
►
of people doing that is probably
[TS]
◼
►
shrinking for sure but I'm not like you
[TS]
◼
►
know overcast is not making as much as
[TS]
◼
►
instapaper did and and the trend lines
[TS]
◼
►
for these things are generally downward
[TS]
◼
►
and overcast is making you know that the
[TS]
◼
►
overcast numbers are going up very
[TS]
◼
►
slowly now with batrix but it's making
[TS]
◼
►
still making less than what did before
[TS]
◼
►
the pic model which that was less than
[TS]
◼
►
12 paper made so you know overall this
[TS]
◼
►
whole market is getting harder
[TS]
◼
►
yeah i think john your I understand what
[TS]
◼
►
ivy and there's there's a couple of
[TS]
◼
►
things to unpack here first of all I it
[TS]
◼
►
was easy for me to tell who didn't did
[TS]
◼
►
not read my entire blog post because
[TS]
◼
►
those who did read the blog post it was
[TS]
◼
►
abundantly obvious that i am still
[TS]
◼
►
working for the man it's just a
[TS]
◼
►
figuratively speaking of course but
[TS]
◼
►
those who didn't read the blog post or
[TS]
◼
►
perhaps only right above the fold were
[TS]
◼
►
like oh UND congratulations
[TS]
◼
►
what's that was kind of funny but to
[TS]
◼
►
directly answer your question I
[TS]
◼
►
certainly have thought quite a bit about
[TS]
◼
►
going completely independent and to me
[TS]
◼
►
that means one of two things it either
[TS]
◼
►
means what you described John and what
[TS]
◼
►
Marco is trying to endure succeeding at
[TS]
◼
►
doing i'll let you be the judge of that
[TS]
◼
►
I'm or it means i am consulting but not
[TS]
◼
►
as part of a consulting firm but instead
[TS]
◼
►
as an independent consultant and this is
[TS]
◼
►
if you're in the united states often for
[TS]
◼
►
just any nining there's many other ways
[TS]
◼
►
you can refer to it but that means as a
[TS]
◼
►
single person i am going and helping
[TS]
◼
►
with something and I am my own boss
[TS]
◼
►
I am my own sales person i am my own
[TS]
◼
►
employee i am everything soup to nuts
[TS]
◼
►
and so what may happen if I wonder if i
[TS]
◼
►
were to make a guess I think one of a
[TS]
◼
►
couple things will happen either
[TS]
◼
►
I'll stay at my current job for quite a
[TS]
◼
►
long time or I will be here for a while
[TS]
◼
►
and so I really get to know iOS and then
[TS]
◼
►
maybe all try to split my time between a
[TS]
◼
►
handful of of clients and those clients
[TS]
◼
►
might be say Marco an underscore or
[TS]
◼
►
maybe somebody else entirely
[TS]
◼
►
or maybe all come up with that brilliant
[TS]
◼
►
idea to make that impossibly great
[TS]
◼
►
update too fast texter you know whatever
[TS]
◼
►
whatever comes after fast text but I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think today I'm in a position that
[TS]
◼
►
I would be comfortable being completely
[TS]
◼
►
independent as much as I think it would
[TS]
◼
►
be fun and as much as I'd love to try it
[TS]
◼
►
I don't think I'm comfortable doing it
[TS]
◼
►
today I'm the only breadwinner for the
[TS]
◼
►
family and granted I'm diversified a bit
[TS]
◼
►
insofar as i have podcast income as well
[TS]
◼
►
as regular income
[TS]
◼
►
I really want to continue to have health
[TS]
◼
►
insurance that my employer helps me pay
[TS]
◼
►
for and the thing that I really want to
[TS]
◼
►
do like I said earlier I kind of know
[TS]
◼
►
how to do but i don't really know how to
[TS]
◼
►
do and the best way to learn how to
[TS]
◼
►
really do it is to just freakin do it
[TS]
◼
►
and it's much easier as i discussed
[TS]
◼
►
earlier to be a part of a product
[TS]
◼
►
company who knows what they're getting
[TS]
◼
►
into when they hired you and knows what
[TS]
◼
►
you are not capable of
[TS]
◼
►
it's easier to to learn on that job then
[TS]
◼
►
it is to to try to position yourself as
[TS]
◼
►
a expert consultants but not really be
[TS]
◼
►
an expert in it so for now I'm really
[TS]
◼
►
happy with the move again i'm in the
[TS]
◼
►
honeymoon period you know there's
[TS]
◼
►
certainly bad parts to this company like
[TS]
◼
►
there are any company but so far all the
[TS]
◼
►
bad parts seem super manageable and all
[TS]
◼
►
the good parts seem awesome so I'm
[TS]
◼
►
really enthusiastic they are you talking
[TS]
◼
►
about considering you know the whole
[TS]
◼
►
1099 independent consulting only because
[TS]
◼
►
it is a thing that you know assume you
[TS]
◼
►
talked about c-sharp type consulting or
[TS]
◼
►
mine no no no i meant I meant what I
[TS]
◼
►
mean it could be sharp but I what I'm
[TS]
◼
►
saying like if you were to do it now you
[TS]
◼
►
like it would be very difficult for you
[TS]
◼
►
to be an iOS consultant person you don't
[TS]
◼
►
have a lot of relevant experience but
[TS]
◼
►
you could consult on the same exact
[TS]
◼
►
stuff that you were doing at the
[TS]
◼
►
previous company and to to me that's
[TS]
◼
►
like the worst of both worlds are you
[TS]
◼
►
doing you have to be consultant you have
[TS]
◼
►
to work at a tech that maybe you don't
[TS]
◼
►
like Arizona is interesting to you as as
[TS]
◼
►
iOS and you have to do everything
[TS]
◼
►
yourself and it's like like all the all
[TS]
◼
►
the downsides of being independent but
[TS]
◼
►
none of the upsides of getting to decide
[TS]
◼
►
what you want to make you know man yep i
[TS]
◼
►
completely agree with you and plus i
[TS]
◼
►
don't think i'm a very very good
[TS]
◼
►
salesperson soho I don't think I would
[TS]
◼
►
be good at like you know pounding the
[TS]
◼
►
pavement or whatever turns phrase you
[TS]
◼
►
want to use and trying to drum up work
[TS]
◼
►
for myself I mean I feel like you know I
[TS]
◼
►
could shill for myself on the podcast be
[TS]
◼
►
like hey guys if you want to see HR
[TS]
◼
►
person just let me know but I'd rather
[TS]
◼
►
not do that and it's just it's not that
[TS]
◼
►
those sorts of things that you just
[TS]
◼
►
described are not things that I'm
[TS]
◼
►
interested in and not things that I
[TS]
◼
►
that and just like you said I don't the
[TS]
◼
►
things that I'm good at like C sharp and
[TS]
◼
►
that sort of thing I don't necessarily
[TS]
◼
►
want to keep doing so you're exactly
[TS]
◼
►
right to go completely independent today
[TS]
◼
►
I would probably be backed into the
[TS]
◼
►
corner of doing all the things i don't
[TS]
◼
►
really want to do and so I'd much rather
[TS]
◼
►
have the steady and reliable paycheck
[TS]
◼
►
and the help on health insurance that
[TS]
◼
►
comes from working for a quote unquote
[TS]
◼
►
the man and and then we'll reevaluate in
[TS]
◼
►
a couple years and see where things
[TS]
◼
►
stand then but like you I think I can
[TS]
◼
►
speak for you John i am extremely
[TS]
◼
►
risk-adverse is that one other servers i
[TS]
◼
►
always get the i was getting wrong sorry
[TS]
◼
►
I'm extremely risk averse and I'd rather
[TS]
◼
►
have some of that risk consumed my by my
[TS]
◼
►
employer then have to shoulder myself
[TS]
◼
►
now yes this is where all of the
[TS]
◼
►
internet and perhaps marcos saying well
[TS]
◼
►
your employer could fire you at any
[TS]
◼
►
second they could fold tomorrow you
[TS]
◼
►
never really really know and yes that's
[TS]
◼
►
true but the way I perceive it
[TS]
◼
►
you know better were certain different
[TS]
◼
►
is that this is less risky than going
[TS]
◼
►
completely independent today you're at
[TS]
◼
►
least outsourcing many of the jobs you
[TS]
◼
►
know you're outsourcing many of the
[TS]
◼
►
risks and and much of the work by
[TS]
◼
►
working for somebody else and I wouldn't
[TS]
◼
►
say you know that you're totally right
[TS]
◼
►
and pretty what I would say that you
[TS]
◼
►
know any job you could lose at any
[TS]
◼
►
moment it you just kind of lose control
[TS]
◼
►
when you're working for somebody else
[TS]
◼
►
but the fact is if you go to work for an
[TS]
◼
►
already established company that it
[TS]
◼
►
already has multiple employees and like
[TS]
◼
►
your salary is not where understand
[TS]
◼
►
their budget is going you know then like
[TS]
◼
►
you know certainly it it makes it less
[TS]
◼
►
likely that they would fail on the
[TS]
◼
►
market in a way to it that would affect
[TS]
◼
►
you or things like that like compared to
[TS]
◼
►
just you going on your own and trying to
[TS]
◼
►
make one app and and see it trying to
[TS]
◼
►
see that one succeed you know because
[TS]
◼
►
the company that you're going to work
[TS]
◼
►
for has already released that one app
[TS]
◼
►
and they it's already doing well enough
[TS]
◼
►
to hire people and keep paying the bills
[TS]
◼
►
oh hopefully you know so so you know
[TS]
◼
►
certainly you do reduce and outsource
[TS]
◼
►
some of those risks i working for
[TS]
◼
►
somebody else when additionally and
[TS]
◼
►
additionally you know I didn't leave my
[TS]
◼
►
old job with my middle fingers in the
[TS]
◼
►
air you know I left my old job in such a
[TS]
◼
►
if things fell through with this 1i
[TS]
◼
►
pretty sure i could go back without
[TS]
◼
►
having to put my tail too far between my
[TS]
◼
►
legs and I pretty sure every job of left
[TS]
◼
►
I could say the same for and plus is as
[TS]
◼
►
time goes on you know some of the people
[TS]
◼
►
I worked with two or three jobs ago are
[TS]
◼
►
now at other jobs where I've never
[TS]
◼
►
worked and so I could go work with old
[TS]
◼
►
friends again at the new places they're
[TS]
◼
►
not working out which actually if you
[TS]
◼
►
think about it is exactly what happened
[TS]
◼
►
yeah Jamie where Jamie and I work
[TS]
◼
►
together a couple of jobs ago
[TS]
◼
►
yay we still kept in touch for a long
[TS]
◼
►
time and and it ended up that this all
[TS]
◼
►
came circling back around I kinda hate
[TS]
◼
►
myself became we circle back to each
[TS]
◼
►
other and now we're working together
[TS]
◼
►
yep emulator all over the parking lot
[TS]
◼
►
yeah exactly so you know it for those
[TS]
◼
►
who are not independent which i think is
[TS]
◼
►
the overwhelming majority of us if you
[TS]
◼
►
leave a job not like a jerk
[TS]
◼
►
you also have that option so even if
[TS]
◼
►
this all fizzled tomorrow I would still
[TS]
◼
►
have the option of going back to the old
[TS]
◼
►
job or working with some of my old
[TS]
◼
►
coworkers from years ago and there's
[TS]
◼
►
always new bridges to burn
[TS]
◼
►
hey I'm still disappointed that you
[TS]
◼
►
didn't take take us up on the offer to
[TS]
◼
►
have me John an underscore go into your
[TS]
◼
►
old job and quit for you
[TS]
◼
►
that would've been hysterical but now i
[TS]
◼
►
don't think that would have been a wise
[TS]
◼
►
probably not but it would've been really
[TS]
◼
►
fun for us at least I think you made the
[TS]
◼
►
right choice for yourself the hook
[TS]
◼
►
yes but it would have been enjoyable in
[TS]
◼
►
man that would've been a really great a
[TS]
◼
►
youtube video for there's nothing else
[TS]
◼
►
we are happy to burn anyone's bridges
[TS]
◼
►
that they need burned for that we're
[TS]
◼
►
happy to do that
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's something I mean oh I could
[TS]
◼
►
I certainly had a list of grievances
[TS]
◼
►
that I could have shared with my
[TS]
◼
►
employer on the way out the door and I
[TS]
◼
►
do I think they knew some of the things
[TS]
◼
►
that that made me unhappy like the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that I wasn't doing iOS and so what I
[TS]
◼
►
told him I was leaving they were a
[TS]
◼
►
little surprised and a little bummed but
[TS]
◼
►
one that I said I was leaving to iOS
[TS]
◼
►
work they're like oh okay that makes
[TS]
◼
►
sense so so I I i feel like you know
[TS]
◼
►
there's no good come in my perspective
[TS]
◼
►
anyway no good comes of you know
[TS]
◼
►
I quit and by the way let me tell you
[TS]
◼
►
all the reasons why you guys are a bunch
[TS]
◼
►
yeah there's no good comes to that
[TS]
◼
►
because in so everyone is a jerk in
[TS]
◼
►
their own way and I'm a jerk in my own
[TS]
◼
►
way and so you know we can all be charts
[TS]
◼
►
together and that's okay well plus like
[TS]
◼
►
suppose you do go back to your old
[TS]
◼
►
company say in two years you are now a
[TS]
◼
►
two-year experienced iOS developer that
[TS]
◼
►
they didn't have to pay you for training
[TS]
◼
►
in the meantime and now they can charge
[TS]
◼
►
you more for your time
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's actually extremely true yeah
[TS]
◼
►
so I'm we'll see how it goes i'm really
[TS]
◼
►
excited I'm really scared and I'm really
[TS]
◼
►
I'm really anxious to see what it's like
[TS]
◼
►
it's gonna be interesting being
[TS]
◼
►
client-side and it's going to be
[TS]
◼
►
interesting here is because most of the
[TS]
◼
►
c-sharp stuff i was writing it was all
[TS]
◼
►
server side i have written some
[TS]
◼
►
client-side c-sharp way way back when i
[TS]
◼
►
first started writing and in c-sharp but
[TS]
◼
►
I'm done that in a long time
[TS]
◼
►
the closest thing I've come to
[TS]
◼
►
client-side programming in JavaScript
[TS]
◼
►
and I'm not going to get into that holy
[TS]
◼
►
war but suffice to say i haven't done
[TS]
◼
►
real honest-to-goodness client-side
[TS]
◼
►
development in a long time and
[TS]
◼
►
additionally i'm really looking forward
[TS]
◼
►
to some of the engineering challenges of
[TS]
◼
►
working on a mobile device that I
[TS]
◼
►
haven't had to worry about a long time
[TS]
◼
►
you know like the the processors are
[TS]
◼
►
getting faster and faster and stronger
[TS]
◼
►
and stronger but you know can cycles are
[TS]
◼
►
not free and more importantly network
[TS]
◼
►
traffic is not free and you know even
[TS]
◼
►
over even after having been there only a
[TS]
◼
►
couple days there's a couple of choices
[TS]
◼
►
that have been made in the app for
[TS]
◼
►
understandable reasons that I'm that I'm
[TS]
◼
►
thinking to myself oh em that probably
[TS]
◼
►
shouldn't be the way we do things and
[TS]
◼
►
then I'm not the first one to this
[TS]
◼
►
conclusion there you know it's a known
[TS]
◼
►
issue but it's some of those engineering
[TS]
◼
►
challenges that you don't have to think
[TS]
◼
►
about that often anymore even though you
[TS]
◼
►
probably should but you don't have to
[TS]
◼
►
that I'm really anxious to start
[TS]
◼
►
worrying about again even though it's
[TS]
◼
►
gonna be a complete pain in the took us
[TS]
◼
►
just let me know when you get far enough
[TS]
◼
►
into your Swift stuff that we can talk
[TS]
◼
►
about a member wise initializer
[TS]
◼
►
proposals on the podcasting and board
[TS]
◼
►
alright sounds great it's not the thing
[TS]
◼
►
that Erica Satan's evans at forgive me I
[TS]
◼
►
don't pronounce your last name but she
[TS]
◼
►
just been a blog post about that like a
[TS]
◼
►
week ago maybe a few days ago maybe
[TS]
◼
►
she's on the list shape the blog post
[TS]
◼
►
about its with evolution learn about the
[TS]
◼
►
future of the language just learning
[TS]
◼
►
exactly can tell what you're learning
[TS]
◼
►
now will be obsolete in t-minus three
[TS]
◼
►
months its proposal closer
[TS]
◼
►
this is great though as long as long as
[TS]
◼
►
case he keeps learning Swift I don't
[TS]
◼
►
have to really we can just use you right
[TS]
◼
►
i don't think that's how that works
[TS]
◼
►
yeah pretty sure that's not how it works
[TS]
◼
►
somebody i think it was Curtis had said
[TS]
◼
►
it sat outside the you guys gotta switch
[TS]
◼
►
programmer on the show but anyway so
[TS]
◼
►
yeah well we'll see how it goes but I'm
[TS]
◼
►
really anxious see a lot of the existing
[TS]
◼
►
code is of course in objective-c but I'm
[TS]
◼
►
but all the new stuff is Swift and I'll
[TS]
◼
►
i was looking at the Swift book over the
[TS]
◼
►
funemployment week and I was trying to
[TS]
◼
►
teach myself some of it and a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
Swift really does intend it to be
[TS]
◼
►
completely fair this is all academic
[TS]
◼
►
because i was working in a playground
[TS]
◼
►
just reading the book but a lot of it
[TS]
◼
►
looks really really good and it may be
[TS]
◼
►
that once I start really developing with
[TS]
◼
►
it i will hate everything but so far I'm
[TS]
◼
►
really enjoying it it's looking really
[TS]
◼
►
good to me so I still am I still in
[TS]
◼
►
second place for amount of Swift written
[TS]
◼
►
if you count the lines of code in my
[TS]
◼
►
host Henry years
[TS]
◼
►
yes alright let me know market when you
[TS]
◼
►
do more than 10 lines or whatever my
[TS]
◼
►
counter my life count is further than
[TS]
◼
►
the section where I put code samples of
[TS]
◼
►
swift and well i will start learning
[TS]
◼
►
Swift when desktop linux takes over it's
[TS]
◼
►
always like a year and a half out
[TS]
◼
►
mhm anyway so I appreciate you let me go
[TS]
◼
►
on about that for a while but yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
also I i would be remiss of me not to
[TS]
◼
►
mention or that I've gotten so many
[TS]
◼
►
people tweeting at me in response to the
[TS]
◼
►
blog post and the announcement and
[TS]
◼
►
marcos blog post as well or link post
[TS]
◼
►
and I really appreciate all of it
[TS]
◼
►
I didn't think that many people gave a
[TS]
◼
►
crap about where i spent my time during
[TS]
◼
►
the day and i don't mean that a nasty
[TS]
◼
►
way it's very flattering that on that
[TS]
◼
►
people have said that have been so so
[TS]
◼
►
enthusiastic and so I really really
[TS]
◼
►
we just couldn't wait to pull you out of
[TS]
◼
►
the parking lot that was really like all
[TS]
◼
►
like you know each you know we did we
[TS]
◼
►
never talked that much about your work
[TS]
◼
►
just because you know it wasn't you know
[TS]
◼
►
what you want to talk about on the show
[TS]
◼
►
and you know we don't see each other
[TS]
◼
►
privately that often but it certainly
[TS]
◼
►
did seem to me that some of the some of
[TS]
◼
►
the overhead of of being in like a big
[TS]
◼
►
corporate not being a big order but you
[TS]
◼
►
know being like a like a big company and
[TS]
◼
►
doing the consultant working having a
[TS]
◼
►
tracker time everything I can't even
[TS]
◼
►
imagine you know that the kind of stress
[TS]
◼
►
that you have to internalize to have
[TS]
◼
►
things like your traffic light incident
[TS]
◼
►
of like thinking about how am I going to
[TS]
◼
►
build a client for the time I
[TS]
◼
►
accidentally spent a little bit too much
[TS]
◼
►
at the traffic light like it seems like
[TS]
◼
►
that is something that
[TS]
◼
►
you know it's certainly working for any
[TS]
◼
►
company has it stresses and working for
[TS]
◼
►
no company has it stresses even though
[TS]
◼
►
nobody else sees them except me
[TS]
◼
►
but you were it but I feel like you're
[TS]
◼
►
making a move here that at least by the
[TS]
◼
►
way it sounds and and by what you are
[TS]
◼
►
describing so far it sounds like you're
[TS]
◼
►
moving towards less stress and towards
[TS]
◼
►
something that is what that is
[TS]
◼
►
significantly more aligned with what you
[TS]
◼
►
want to be doing and and with where you
[TS]
◼
►
want to take your skills and you with
[TS]
◼
►
things like iOS and to move towards
[TS]
◼
►
client-side stuff moving towards Swift
[TS]
◼
►
so it sounds like for what you want
[TS]
◼
►
today this is a way better fit for you
[TS]
◼
►
and so I'm really happy for you
[TS]
◼
►
i I am so happy to hear this and I think
[TS]
◼
►
anyone who's been following your work
[TS]
◼
►
for you know the last couple years or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever anyone who's been following
[TS]
◼
►
your work recently has probably noticed
[TS]
◼
►
the same things that like what you were
[TS]
◼
►
doing was not very well I'm with what
[TS]
◼
►
you want to be doing anymore and now
[TS]
◼
►
this new job sounds like it is
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I couldn't agree more and I
[TS]
◼
►
appreciate it i'm really looking forward
[TS]
◼
►
to it and the funny thing about all this
[TS]
◼
►
is is that I've been able in lucky
[TS]
◼
►
enough to get a WV DC in twenty eleven
[TS]
◼
►
twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen and
[TS]
◼
►
every single time i've been i've felt
[TS]
◼
►
almost like guilty that I've taken a
[TS]
◼
►
ticket from like a quote-unquote rely OS
[TS]
◼
►
developer because you know there was
[TS]
◼
►
certainly a potential every single year
[TS]
◼
►
that I could be doing an iOS project in
[TS]
◼
►
the following year but nevertheless I
[TS]
◼
►
hadn't done very many of them and let's
[TS]
◼
►
be honest like we've talked about it
[TS]
◼
►
more than a couple times on the show
[TS]
◼
►
last text was never that popular
[TS]
◼
►
well here it is now that I'm an
[TS]
◼
►
honest-to-goodness iOS developer
[TS]
◼
►
guaranteed i want to take this year so
[TS]
◼
►
I've ruined everything but that's okay
[TS]
◼
►
I'll just tell us about something that's
[TS]
◼
►
speaking of making corporate things
[TS]
◼
►
better we are sponsored this week by a
[TS]
◼
►
glue glue is the corporate intranet that
[TS]
◼
►
you will actually like now if you ever
[TS]
◼
►
worked in a corporate environment with
[TS]
◼
►
parking lots you know how painful
[TS]
◼
►
internets usually are the content is so
[TS]
◼
►
often stale the interface is really ugly
[TS]
◼
►
you can access on your phone or get any
[TS]
◼
►
meaningful work done outside the office
[TS]
◼
►
igloo is a modern internet designed by
[TS]
◼
►
for other human beings that you will
[TS]
◼
►
actually like it's an easy-to-use
[TS]
◼
►
collaboration tool that can help you do
[TS]
◼
►
your best work you can share files and
[TS]
◼
►
updates with your team coordinate
[TS]
◼
►
calendars managed apartment projects and
[TS]
◼
►
more when whether you're a large
[TS]
◼
►
enterprise stuck using sharepoint I'm so
[TS]
◼
►
glad I've never seen sharepoint I don't
[TS]
◼
►
even know what it is i just know it's
[TS]
◼
►
microsoft and everyone hates a trigger
[TS]
◼
►
warning trigger warning track warning oh
[TS]
◼
►
does the new job sharepoint know thank
[TS]
◼
►
God or if they do I haven't seen it and
[TS]
◼
►
that and I want to keep it that way
[TS]
◼
►
good because nobody likes sharepoint if
[TS]
◼
►
you're stuck with that or if you're fast
[TS]
◼
►
growing business overrun by file-sharing
[TS]
◼
►
Calendar apps you can create a corporate
[TS]
◼
►
internet that matches your brand's
[TS]
◼
►
look-and-feel simplifies how you work
[TS]
◼
►
and is accessible on any device mobile
[TS]
◼
►
laptop desktop anything all today at a
[TS]
◼
►
blue software com so go to a blue
[TS]
◼
►
software com / ATP what is not to like
[TS]
◼
►
here check it out today a loose
[TS]
◼
►
offer.com / ATP the internet that you
[TS]
◼
►
will actually like start a free trial
[TS]
◼
►
today to check it out and if you're
[TS]
◼
►
under 10 people you can even use it for
[TS]
◼
►
free forever so that's pretty cool check
[TS]
◼
►
out a blue software today a blue
[TS]
◼
►
software com / ATP thanks a lot
[TS]
◼
►
alright so just to keep this the all
[TS]
◼
►
cases all the time show I wanted to tell
[TS]
◼
►
you about my last day at my last job and
[TS]
◼
►
the sounds like it's gonna be boring but
[TS]
◼
►
bear with me here I decided because I
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to be a model employee and I
[TS]
◼
►
don't need to hear emails about why this
[TS]
◼
►
maybe it was a bad idea i'm sticking
[TS]
◼
►
with it being a good idea i decided to
[TS]
◼
►
be a model employee and try to remove
[TS]
◼
►
all of my stuff off my work computer for
[TS]
◼
►
the last job all my stuff off of it just
[TS]
◼
►
reload OS 10 leave it in a position
[TS]
◼
►
where you know it's it starts up and you
[TS]
◼
►
know you're the first thing it's going
[TS]
◼
►
to do is finish the installation so i
[TS]
◼
►
did that over the weekend right before
[TS]
◼
►
this past Monday so when I went in
[TS]
◼
►
Monday I effectively had no computer
[TS]
◼
►
I mean I physically had one but it was
[TS]
◼
►
ready to get setup i knew i had taken
[TS]
◼
►
mr. clean magic eraser and clean the
[TS]
◼
►
everything was good i put it back in the
[TS]
◼
►
box because for whatever reason when
[TS]
◼
►
they gave me the computer they gave me
[TS]
◼
►
everything was great i really wanted to
[TS]
◼
►
and a few tax related documents at our
[TS]
◼
►
scanner in the office and the way the
[TS]
◼
►
scanner works is it was a scanner /
[TS]
◼
►
printer / copying machine you can save
[TS]
◼
►
something to USB key you can save
[TS]
◼
►
something to endure you can send
[TS]
◼
►
something to email
[TS]
◼
►
well I didn't know how long my email
[TS]
◼
►
address is gonna last because you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's it maybe I could have keyed in my
[TS]
◼
►
personal email address but it was
[TS]
◼
►
certainly intended to be used only for
[TS]
◼
►
your work email addresses and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
literally there for like 2-3 hours to do
[TS]
◼
►
an exit interview or two and then get on
[TS]
◼
►
my way so I didn't even know if i would
[TS]
◼
►
have an email address played on this
[TS]
◼
►
past Monday it turns out I did but I
[TS]
◼
►
brought my ipad mini with me and what I
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to do was I wanted to scan these
[TS]
◼
►
documents and confirm that they scanned
[TS]
◼
►
properly and save them to dropbox if at
[TS]
◼
►
so how do you do that well I brought a
[TS]
◼
►
USB key but the problem with that is i
[TS]
◼
►
have no way to confirm whether or not it
[TS]
◼
►
works we don't have any like public
[TS]
◼
►
terminals sitting around in the office
[TS]
◼
►
i'm sure i could have asked somebody
[TS]
◼
►
awkwardly hey do you mind if I use your
[TS]
◼
►
computer to see if my scam w2 looks
[TS]
◼
►
right light PS don't look over my
[TS]
◼
►
shoulder please because it shows you
[TS]
◼
►
exactly how much I made last year and
[TS]
◼
►
that's a little awkward so I needed to
[TS]
◼
►
do everything via my iPad and what I
[TS]
◼
►
ended up doing was I had sent the scans
[TS]
◼
►
to my work email which was still working
[TS]
◼
►
sat down on my iPad looked these scans
[TS]
◼
►
and then put them in dropbox that sounds
[TS]
◼
►
like it was a pretty easy thing to do
[TS]
◼
►
but man did it take for ever compared to
[TS]
◼
►
using a mac i had to go to mail i had to
[TS]
◼
►
wait for the message to download get
[TS]
◼
►
angry when occasionally male showed me
[TS]
◼
►
that there was a new message but refused
[TS]
◼
►
to download it for squid male go back
[TS]
◼
►
into male finally the messages there now
[TS]
◼
►
i need to open the PDF then I need to
[TS]
◼
►
open a Dolittle share sheet thing go to
[TS]
◼
►
open in and then go to dropbox and then
[TS]
◼
►
now I'm opening it in dropbox now i need
[TS]
◼
►
to tap tap tap tap tap to figure out
[TS]
◼
►
what folder to go in and I need to
[TS]
◼
►
rename the file by the way and then i
[TS]
◼
►
can finally save it
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes there was a share button
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes there wasn't i needed to tap
[TS]
◼
►
and hold on a freaking nightmare
[TS]
◼
►
it took forever to do something that on
[TS]
◼
►
a Mac would have taken like four and a
[TS]
◼
►
half seconds so it was both a wonderful
[TS]
◼
►
experience in that i was able to
[TS]
◼
►
accomplish this at all on the ipad which
[TS]
◼
►
i think even a little even not long ago
[TS]
◼
►
I wouldn't have been able to or would
[TS]
◼
►
have been even more taps 22 to make this
[TS]
◼
►
work but all i wanted in the world has
[TS]
◼
►
to have a mac in front of me so I could
[TS]
◼
►
make this go so much faster
[TS]
◼
►
additionally i need to fill out another
[TS]
◼
►
tax form which included a signature on
[TS]
◼
►
OS 10 you can sign using your finger on
[TS]
◼
►
the trackpad in preview or you can sign
[TS]
◼
►
a piece of paper hold it up to the
[TS]
◼
►
camera that's on your mac and it will
[TS]
◼
►
score quotes can really take a picture
[TS]
◼
►
of your signature and and filter out all
[TS]
◼
►
the background noise if you will and and
[TS]
◼
►
let you put your signature on pdfs
[TS]
◼
►
easy-peasy simple to do with the stuff
[TS]
◼
►
that comes on iOS I couldn't do that i
[TS]
◼
►
am sure they're like 300 different apps
[TS]
◼
►
like for example PDF man that would have
[TS]
◼
►
let me do that but I didn't have
[TS]
◼
►
anything out of the box to do it and
[TS]
◼
►
that's frustrating and I don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
have to search the App Store which as we
[TS]
◼
►
discussed earlier is a dumpster fire
[TS]
◼
►
full of options to figure out the one
[TS]
◼
►
additionally similarly some of the PDFs
[TS]
◼
►
that I scanned I really wanted to rotate
[TS]
◼
►
on preview that's command are easy peasy
[TS]
◼
►
how do you do that on an iPad without a
[TS]
◼
►
third-party app what I'm coming around
[TS]
◼
►
to and bringing all this up is I really
[TS]
◼
►
enjoyed the fact that i could sit on one
[TS]
◼
►
of the couches at work where we had the
[TS]
◼
►
old job where we had some couches and
[TS]
◼
►
actually there's some of the new job as
[TS]
◼
►
well i really enjoyed being able to sit
[TS]
◼
►
on the couches at work and use use a
[TS]
◼
►
computing device that wasn't a laptop
[TS]
◼
►
but all i wanted in the world was to
[TS]
◼
►
have a damn laptop and I understand why
[TS]
◼
►
Mike and Federico and cgpgrey and
[TS]
◼
►
Jason's now and others
[TS]
◼
►
might enjoy that because it was kind of
[TS]
◼
►
cool being able to put puzzle pieces
[TS]
◼
►
together to get most of this stuff done
[TS]
◼
►
but maybe i'm just old
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know why but it just felt awful
[TS]
◼
►
to have to jump through so many damn
[TS]
◼
►
hoops to get what are comparatively
[TS]
◼
►
super simple operations done on the ipad
[TS]
◼
►
and I don't know if you guys have any
[TS]
◼
►
thoughts about this if you if it in many
[TS]
◼
►
yeah well and I don't know if this is if
[TS]
◼
►
we're beating this horse to death but i
[TS]
◼
►
don't get--why this would be fun for
[TS]
◼
►
people i just don't see why it would be
[TS]
◼
►
fun i think i understand why it felt bad
[TS]
◼
►
like one reason I mean you kind of
[TS]
◼
►
touched on ry might feel bad to have
[TS]
◼
►
this experience and why was it so
[TS]
◼
►
difficult part of it has to be just
[TS]
◼
►
simply a gap in knowledge that for
[TS]
◼
►
example vtg could tell you exactly how
[TS]
◼
►
you should be doing the thing that
[TS]
◼
►
you're doing because he has experience
[TS]
◼
►
you know how to do it on the mac because
[TS]
◼
►
you've done it before on the Mac you
[TS]
◼
►
know which programs how to get things
[TS]
◼
►
between them and the comparison i was
[TS]
◼
►
thinking like so many things that seem
[TS]
◼
►
effortless to me in my mac are not
[TS]
◼
►
effortless to other people with less
[TS]
◼
►
experience with Max that we don't even
[TS]
◼
►
think about these tools we have at our
[TS]
◼
►
disposal and you always know you know
[TS]
◼
►
drag from this application of that one
[TS]
◼
►
but that one you can't drag directly
[TS]
◼
►
into their you can drag it onto the app
[TS]
◼
►
icon for this application but this other
[TS]
◼
►
one you got to go to desktop
[TS]
◼
►
intermediary and who knows you could
[TS]
◼
►
drag anything out of there and how do
[TS]
◼
►
you know sometimes you gotta hold down
[TS]
◼
►
before the Dragons active and you can't
[TS]
◼
►
just start dragging soon as you click
[TS]
◼
►
the mouse button like the things we
[TS]
◼
►
internalize details that are just
[TS]
◼
►
byzantine and don't really make any
[TS]
◼
►
sense in aren't consistent and we don't
[TS]
◼
►
have to go to the app store and look at
[TS]
◼
►
the application because you already have
[TS]
◼
►
them installed and we already know you
[TS]
◼
►
know all that like that we know what to
[TS]
◼
►
do in the mac and so you go to some
[TS]
◼
►
place where you don't know what to do
[TS]
◼
►
when you feel less confident it feels
[TS]
◼
►
like i know i could do this in two
[TS]
◼
►
seconds in rel max where I am an expert
[TS]
◼
►
and now i'm in around why and it's
[TS]
◼
►
frustrating to you know to get into to
[TS]
◼
►
feel like a novice and that I think
[TS]
◼
►
explains a large part of the
[TS]
◼
►
dissatisfaction and the fact that you
[TS]
◼
►
could do it at all probably means that
[TS]
◼
►
there is like 900 better ways to do it
[TS]
◼
►
you just don't know yet because you
[TS]
◼
►
don't have the apps installed but on the
[TS]
◼
►
other side of this is what we talked
[TS]
◼
►
is that in the end some things still
[TS]
◼
►
just are easier to do on the Mac no
[TS]
◼
►
matter what a range of things because
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes some of the things that video
[TS]
◼
►
you might explain about his crazy world
[TS]
◼
►
of living and you know on the ipad only
[TS]
◼
►
you think about it you're like all right
[TS]
◼
►
well that's impressive that you could do
[TS]
◼
►
it all really it's a Rube Goldberg
[TS]
◼
►
machine and that's really
[TS]
◼
►
this can't be the the true path forward
[TS]
◼
►
like really this is just like you're
[TS]
◼
►
doing this to suffice for now but i have
[TS]
◼
►
maybe some of the things that you're
[TS]
◼
►
doing actually would be just as easy if
[TS]
◼
►
not easier on the ipad if you just know
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you do very well could be right i
[TS]
◼
►
guess the thing that frustrated me was
[TS]
◼
►
that out-of-the-box on OS 10 all the
[TS]
◼
►
puzzle pieces i need are there and are
[TS]
◼
►
arranged pretty closely together so you
[TS]
◼
►
just kind of have to shove them a little
[TS]
◼
►
bit nearer to each other and they all
[TS]
◼
►
fit and I think you made a great point
[TS]
◼
►
that a lot of that comes from experience
[TS]
◼
►
whereas out-of-the-box on iOS those
[TS]
◼
►
puzzle pieces may exist and help
[TS]
◼
►
they may even fit together more nicely
[TS]
◼
►
then they do an OS 10 although i'm
[TS]
◼
►
skeptical but the problem is you have to
[TS]
◼
►
seek them out and i personally don't
[TS]
◼
►
have that patients that Mike and
[TS]
◼
►
Federico and so many others do now Marco
[TS]
◼
►
what were you going to say about all
[TS]
◼
►
I was actually gonna say something very
[TS]
◼
►
similar to what John said which is like
[TS]
◼
►
in the ipads defense you were not
[TS]
◼
►
familiar with it you know you are an
[TS]
◼
►
expert on the Mac you are not an expert
[TS]
◼
►
in doing this kind of thing on the ipad
[TS]
◼
►
and so yes there are ways to do these
[TS]
◼
►
kinds of things that you just didn't
[TS]
◼
►
know it be similar like if you if you
[TS]
◼
►
try to use linux and when it might have
[TS]
◼
►
tons of tools to do these things and you
[TS]
◼
►
don't know about them you know things
[TS]
◼
►
like that so something to think about
[TS]
◼
►
with with iOS stuff and and with people
[TS]
◼
►
who are going to do like most of the
[TS]
◼
►
work on iOS or all their work on iOS I
[TS]
◼
►
think there's a bit of a parallel to
[TS]
◼
►
draw here between this kind of dilemma
[TS]
◼
►
and the reason why people but why some
[TS]
◼
►
people still buy laptops with DVD drives
[TS]
◼
►
in them and all of us geeks can look at
[TS]
◼
►
this and say why would anybody want a
[TS]
◼
►
lap of the DVD drive that what year is
[TS]
◼
►
this it is very common people still buy
[TS]
◼
►
the DVD drive because they say well what
[TS]
◼
►
if I need it I need this every so often
[TS]
◼
►
it's very similar to what happened
[TS]
◼
►
how people justify buying SUVs a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
times for pickups
[TS]
◼
►
yeah a lot of times people who buy SUVs
[TS]
◼
►
are doing they choose them over a
[TS]
◼
►
different kind of vehicle that they
[TS]
◼
►
might be happier and more comfortable
[TS]
◼
►
driving more of the time or that might
[TS]
◼
►
work better for them in other ways might
[TS]
◼
►
be easier to park or more efficient or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever they choose SUVs over those
[TS]
◼
►
vehicles sometimes because they think
[TS]
◼
►
they might occasionally need to use some
[TS]
◼
►
of you know the features on the SUV and
[TS]
◼
►
ninety-nine percent of the time they
[TS]
◼
►
never use them and during the entire
[TS]
◼
►
time they only at that SUV the need for
[TS]
◼
►
it for its benefits over a regular
[TS]
◼
►
vehicle might only come up like three or
[TS]
◼
►
four times you know and and if they
[TS]
◼
►
didn't have the SUV was three or four
[TS]
◼
►
times they probably could have found
[TS]
◼
►
some way around you know we could rent a
[TS]
◼
►
truck for this afternoon or whatever you
[TS]
◼
►
know but people still choose those
[TS]
◼
►
because of these occasional needs and
[TS]
◼
►
that's their it's a very powerful force
[TS]
◼
►
in decision-making when people are
[TS]
◼
►
choosing these kinds of these kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
things there that they're buying are
[TS]
◼
►
using are owning because they may think
[TS]
◼
►
you know as much as I could get away
[TS]
◼
►
with what I need ninety percent of the
[TS]
◼
►
time with this simpler smaller option
[TS]
◼
►
whether that's the iOS or a motorcycle
[TS]
◼
►
you know they they can see as much
[TS]
◼
►
talking about that most of the time that
[TS]
◼
►
lasts like one or five or ten percent of
[TS]
◼
►
the time that what I'm doing can't be
[TS]
◼
►
done on this thing at all can't easily
[TS]
◼
►
be done this thing i'm going to be
[TS]
◼
►
really upset if I don't just get the the
[TS]
◼
►
bigger more capable thing to begin with
[TS]
◼
►
and sometimes that actually isn't a
[TS]
◼
►
rational decision sometimes like you
[TS]
◼
►
know that as what they could have been
[TS]
◼
►
fine with the smaller thing and the
[TS]
◼
►
bigger thing they're actually less happy
[TS]
◼
►
with it overall but it's very hard to
[TS]
◼
►
persuade people that up front and a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of times like the the times where the
[TS]
◼
►
smaller tool isn't sufficient they stick
[TS]
◼
►
out in the person's mind and and that
[TS]
◼
►
that affects the decision-making forever
[TS]
◼
►
like there have been so many times in in
[TS]
◼
►
my past travels with during which i have
[TS]
◼
►
owned a macbook air or 13-inch macbook
[TS]
◼
►
of some kind and I have regretted not
[TS]
◼
►
having the 15-inch now I have a 15-inch
[TS]
◼
►
and i'm looking at like you know I
[TS]
◼
►
hardly ever need
[TS]
◼
►
this to be this big ok I really hardly
[TS]
◼
►
ever like but it does occasionally
[TS]
◼
►
happen and so I i'm tempted to go
[TS]
◼
►
smaller for my next one but it's that
[TS]
◼
►
it's in the back of my mind like he had
[TS]
◼
►
but I do really like it sometimes
[TS]
◼
►
so I think looking at the ipad we have a
[TS]
◼
►
kind of similar problem here where if
[TS]
◼
►
you're super devoted to doing as much as
[TS]
◼
►
you can on it you can get quite a lot
[TS]
◼
►
done but went but people look at that
[TS]
◼
►
concept and they think yeah but what if
[TS]
◼
►
you know it but what if i want to do
[TS]
◼
►
this one fairly you know trivial thing
[TS]
◼
►
that just by the design of the ipad or
[TS]
◼
►
by its you know hardware restrictions
[TS]
◼
►
something just it just can't do or
[TS]
◼
►
bioessays restrictions very clumsy to do
[TS]
◼
►
you know if there and you only need one
[TS]
◼
►
of those things for the idea of an of an
[TS]
◼
►
ipad being your primary work machine to
[TS]
◼
►
be dismissed in your mind or two seem
[TS]
◼
►
impossible and so many people will have
[TS]
◼
►
like one of those things at least and
[TS]
◼
►
you i have tons of those things that's
[TS]
◼
►
one of the reasons I don't do it but you
[TS]
◼
►
know I think in this case like it's a
[TS]
◼
►
very hard problem to solve because
[TS]
◼
►
that's the kind of it just takes like
[TS]
◼
►
years and years of software maturity and
[TS]
◼
►
a blossoming third-party ecosystem and
[TS]
◼
►
advancement in the OS and the interface
[TS]
◼
►
and everything and the end right now if
[TS]
◼
►
you are accustomed to the mac it's
[TS]
◼
►
really easy to just get a bunch of stuff
[TS]
◼
►
down and honestly the mac has taken a
[TS]
◼
►
beating in in enthusiast community as
[TS]
◼
►
recently as everyone it seems like
[TS]
◼
►
everybody wants to flee from the mac and
[TS]
◼
►
their that it seems like whenever the
[TS]
◼
►
ipad or iphone to get better we hear
[TS]
◼
►
from people who are just like seemingly
[TS]
◼
►
like can't wait to drop their mac like
[TS]
◼
►
it's like on fire like oh my god I i I'm
[TS]
◼
►
rushing these other things because I
[TS]
◼
►
just hated my max so but thank god i can
[TS]
◼
►
write and run to the ipad and i don't i
[TS]
◼
►
don't feel that at all I i love the mac
[TS]
◼
►
i think the heck is great and my only
[TS]
◼
►
concern is when Apple messes with the
[TS]
◼
►
mac in ways that I don't agree with or
[TS]
◼
►
that I think make it worse but even
[TS]
◼
►
those are few and far between relatively
[TS]
◼
►
speaking and the mac is awesome and I to
[TS]
◼
►
me the mac is my is my work machine and
[TS]
◼
►
and i am not looking to constantly flee
[TS]
◼
►
the things i'm using if they're working
[TS]
◼
►
fine but you know that's I totally get
[TS]
◼
►
the driving force that makes people
[TS]
◼
►
think that way but I do think you know
[TS]
◼
►
for when somebody like you goes to try
[TS]
◼
►
the ipad as a as I could work device
[TS]
◼
►
even for this you know for this one task
[TS]
◼
►
you tried to do on it when it when you
[TS]
◼
►
run into one of those walls things that
[TS]
◼
►
can do it just seems like oh my god this
[TS]
◼
►
thing is worthless why would anybody
[TS]
◼
►
ever do this and you know that there's
[TS]
◼
►
basically went to summarize very long
[TS]
◼
►
rant there's reasons on both sides and
[TS]
◼
►
just like everything else that can
[TS]
◼
►
always be summarized this whole issue of
[TS]
◼
►
cases ipad use in trying to trying it
[TS]
◼
►
remind me of a whole discussion after
[TS]
◼
►
your pockets I one of the ones with my
[TS]
◼
►
kids and my own podcast it's mike with a
[TS]
◼
►
while it does not narrow it down at all
[TS]
◼
►
we're discussing his use of the ipad and
[TS]
◼
►
Howie he remembered how it was just like
[TS]
◼
►
it a accessory thing but now there are
[TS]
◼
►
so many things that he prefers to do his
[TS]
◼
►
talking about that sitting in front of
[TS]
◼
►
his mac with his ipad using his ipad
[TS]
◼
►
like he's literally sitting in front of
[TS]
◼
►
his mac but instead of using the magnets
[TS]
◼
►
in front of him he says that God has
[TS]
◼
►
ipad propped up in front of him he's
[TS]
◼
►
using it to do things like sorting
[TS]
◼
►
through email or whatever a certain
[TS]
◼
►
classes of tests that he by his own
[TS]
◼
►
admission or less efficient on the ipad
[TS]
◼
►
but that that the thing that made him
[TS]
◼
►
want to use it was that he found the
[TS]
◼
►
more enjoyable to do on the ipad and
[TS]
◼
►
this is is not necessarily the factor
[TS]
◼
►
that is making people try to drop their
[TS]
◼
►
max like they're hot but different
[TS]
◼
►
expression but it is like the idea that
[TS]
◼
►
certain things and I've experienced this
[TS]
◼
►
too I think we all have with the ipad
[TS]
◼
►
maybe even Marco once in awhile certain
[TS]
◼
►
things feel more comfortable to do on
[TS]
◼
►
the ipad not even ergonomically speaking
[TS]
◼
►
but just like mentally like somehow that
[TS]
◼
►
our brain goes into a different state or
[TS]
◼
►
maybe we're sitting in a different chair
[TS]
◼
►
move with with mike example he was
[TS]
◼
►
actually literally sitting in the same
[TS]
◼
►
chair that is in front but he also
[TS]
◼
►
talked about doing it in bed or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
or just I don't know it like just that
[TS]
◼
►
it feels different to sort of like it
[TS]
◼
►
your body relaxes and you just kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like swiping things around on the screen
[TS]
◼
►
click this message over there scroll
[TS]
◼
►
down over there look at that I find that
[TS]
◼
►
a lot of browsing stuff like if i want
[TS]
◼
►
to read through Twitter like I'm
[TS]
◼
►
behind i want to catch up on Twitter or
[TS]
◼
►
something i find it much more
[TS]
◼
►
comfortable to catch up on Twitter on
[TS]
◼
►
iOS device than imac even though i know
[TS]
◼
►
that is more efficient to do on my Mac
[TS]
◼
►
because i can open the link in a web
[TS]
◼
►
browser faster because i'm adding so
[TS]
◼
►
much more powerful and bigger than my
[TS]
◼
►
click on the link browser window opens
[TS]
◼
►
there it is it's very fast and hard to
[TS]
◼
►
switch apt you know like I I know
[TS]
◼
►
intellectually that if you were to put a
[TS]
◼
►
stopwatch on door make any kind of
[TS]
◼
►
objective measure of efficiency you
[TS]
◼
►
would find that doing that task on the
[TS]
◼
►
mac is better but it feels better to do
[TS]
◼
►
it on iOS device and some of the terms
[TS]
◼
►
of the Leanback experience maybe that's
[TS]
◼
►
part of it like the written it that it's
[TS]
◼
►
more relaxing maybe it's just the
[TS]
◼
►
context switch that we all spend so much
[TS]
◼
►
time released i do sitting in front of a
[TS]
◼
►
computer all day that you know sitting
[TS]
◼
►
down on a couch also in front of a
[TS]
◼
►
computer but the computer is really flat
[TS]
◼
►
and you touch it somehow that like it's
[TS]
◼
►
a mode switch and it feels more relaxing
[TS]
◼
►
but i think that is that's part of this
[TS]
◼
►
negative factors into casey's discussion
[TS]
◼
►
of feeling like this is just you know he
[TS]
◼
►
was filled with the other side the
[TS]
◼
►
inefficiency that like I know how to do
[TS]
◼
►
this in another realm and I have to do
[TS]
◼
►
it on here and it's like a puzzle for me
[TS]
◼
►
to solve and it's annoying and it's the
[TS]
◼
►
worst kind of inefficiency because you
[TS]
◼
►
know you'd already be done by now if you
[TS]
◼
►
just did it on the mac right yeah but
[TS]
◼
►
but the flip side of that is when you
[TS]
◼
►
acknowledge the inefficiency and then it
[TS]
◼
►
just it just feels better and I'm not in
[TS]
◼
►
tight like that i'm not entirely sure
[TS]
◼
►
what all the different sources of that
[TS]
◼
►
feeling i know a few of them but i think
[TS]
◼
►
it's interesting phenomenon and i think
[TS]
◼
►
i think everyone who is used in iOS
[TS]
◼
►
devices spell that to some degree even
[TS]
◼
►
if you're just feeling on your phone
[TS]
◼
►
like I think it's a better example for
[TS]
◼
►
Marco doesn't really use iPads that much
[TS]
◼
►
some things just feel better to do on
[TS]
◼
►
your phone and groupers talk about how
[TS]
◼
►
he has preferred device for into it is
[TS]
◼
►
his phone because it just just feel like
[TS]
◼
►
the natural place to do a particular
[TS]
◼
►
activity and it's got to be less
[TS]
◼
►
efficient like you have you can put your
[TS]
◼
►
things on the screen if you want to tap
[TS]
◼
►
a link it's much more of a pain and you
[TS]
◼
►
go back and all this stuff but it just
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you know to provide a counterpoint
[TS]
◼
►
to my earlier lamentations when I was on
[TS]
◼
►
my way back from the armaments actually
[TS]
◼
►
at the at the beginning of the year when
[TS]
◼
►
we all congregated at marcos house
[TS]
◼
►
I was sitting in the back of errands car
[TS]
◼
►
with Declan trying to keep him occupied
[TS]
◼
►
and happy and whatnot then when he
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't in actively in need of you know
[TS]
◼
►
entertainment or whatever I was sitting
[TS]
◼
►
back there with the same ipad mini and I
[TS]
◼
►
i was using ipad multitasking and I had
[TS]
◼
►
typically ways and like a third of the
[TS]
◼
►
screen on the right hand side in the
[TS]
◼
►
little multitasking area and in the main
[TS]
◼
►
window I was either slack or Twitter or
[TS]
◼
►
occasionally I've we were in a stretch
[TS]
◼
►
like say the Jersey Turnpike where we
[TS]
◼
►
didn't really need to worry about you
[TS]
◼
►
know directions or anything i would have
[TS]
◼
►
twitter as two-thirds of the screen and
[TS]
◼
►
slack is a third of the screen or maybe
[TS]
◼
►
even half-and-half and i have never
[TS]
◼
►
taken a car trip that felt easier
[TS]
◼
►
because i was entertained the entire way
[TS]
◼
►
congrats again on talking to Aaron and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff and I'm helping aaron and whatnot
[TS]
◼
►
everything helping Declan and whatnot
[TS]
◼
►
but when I was just sitting there kind
[TS]
◼
►
of doing my thing i could not have
[TS]
◼
►
enjoyed using the ipad more than that in
[TS]
◼
►
that moment because all the things that
[TS]
◼
►
used to suck about using iPads
[TS]
◼
►
constantly double pressing the home
[TS]
◼
►
button or using the multitasking
[TS]
◼
►
gestures to go back-and-forth
[TS]
◼
►
back-and-forth back-and-forth
[TS]
◼
►
back-and-forth all of that went away
[TS]
◼
►
when I could even use just two apps
[TS]
◼
►
simultaneously so in that case it was
[TS]
◼
►
magnificent being able to to use the
[TS]
◼
►
ipad and I think using a laptop would
[TS]
◼
►
have been considerably worse in the
[TS]
◼
►
backseat of a car is your hurdling down
[TS]
◼
►
the road because it firm among many
[TS]
◼
►
other reasons a laptop doesn't have a
[TS]
◼
►
cellular connection
[TS]
◼
►
yes I could have tethered to my phone
[TS]
◼
►
but still it was just it would have been
[TS]
◼
►
a lot more uncomfortable and so there
[TS]
◼
►
are definitely times and places and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not trying to say that there's
[TS]
◼
►
consumption versus creation I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
trying to get into that argument it just
[TS]
◼
►
so happened that it worked really well
[TS]
◼
►
in this case for the sorts of things you
[TS]
◼
►
would want to do in the back are our
[TS]
◼
►
final sponsor this week is male around
[TS]
◼
►
go to mail route dotnet / ATP for the
[TS]
◼
►
best spam and virus email filtering i
[TS]
◼
►
now IT departments are expected to do
[TS]
◼
►
but of course as always with less money
[TS]
◼
►
this includes the really important stuff
[TS]
◼
►
like stopping spam
[TS]
◼
►
virus attacks from your email now
[TS]
◼
►
there's been a lot of end-of-life
[TS]
◼
►
announcements for trust hardware and
[TS]
◼
►
software options in this area first
[TS]
◼
►
postini went away now MX logic who can
[TS]
◼
►
you trust to do the job well and stick
[TS]
◼
►
try mail route mail route will protect
[TS]
◼
►
your email and your hardware against
[TS]
◼
►
spam viruses and other attacks
[TS]
◼
►
there's no hardware or software to
[TS]
◼
►
install if you own your domain that's
[TS]
◼
►
all you need to use mail rap because
[TS]
◼
►
melrose a cloud service that filters
[TS]
◼
►
spam and viruses out of your email all
[TS]
◼
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the mail come into your domain their
[TS]
◼
►
team's focus exclusively on email
[TS]
◼
►
protection since 1997 their interface is
[TS]
◼
►
easy to use and loaded with admin tools
[TS]
◼
►
including a full API and all designed to
[TS]
◼
►
make your life spam free whether you are
[TS]
◼
►
an individual domain owner like me i use
[TS]
◼
►
my route and I like it a lot
[TS]
◼
►
whether your individual domain owner who
[TS]
◼
►
just has an email address and you want
[TS]
◼
►
to filter all the spam from it works
[TS]
◼
►
great for that or if you are an admin
[TS]
◼
►
for a whole company and you want to
[TS]
◼
►
filter spam and viruses from your entire
[TS]
◼
►
company's domain it has everything you
[TS]
◼
►
need to administer users configure
[TS]
◼
►
everything permissions all the stuff
[TS]
◼
►
that you've had that you have to do is
[TS]
◼
►
an email admin for a company that sighs
[TS]
◼
►
all the way down to just being one
[TS]
◼
►
it serves everyone like that equally
[TS]
◼
►
well right now male writers offering
[TS]
◼
►
price matching for mcafee and MX logic
[TS]
◼
►
customers to check it out today
[TS]
◼
►
stop spam now with a free 30-day trial
[TS]
◼
►
mail route at mail route dotnet / ATP
[TS]
◼
►
you can also email sales email about
[TS]
◼
►
that now listeners to the show by going
[TS]
◼
►
to that link mail route that such a
[TS]
◼
►
teepee you can get ten percent off for
[TS]
◼
►
the lifetime of your entire account so
[TS]
◼
►
every time they charge you money every
[TS]
◼
►
time your account renews its ten percent
[TS]
◼
►
of not just the first time it's an
[TS]
◼
►
incredibly good deal mail route protect
[TS]
◼
►
your email from spam and viruses that's
[TS]
◼
►
it that's all they do they do it better
[TS]
◼
►
and doing it longer than anybody else
[TS]
◼
►
check it out go to mail wrapped up net /
[TS]
◼
►
ATP thanks a lot i reconfigured my email
[TS]
◼
►
recently and accidentally had got mail
[TS]
◼
►
route misconfigured from my vertical
[TS]
◼
►
domain and i could not get a turn back
[TS]
◼
►
on fast and this is what it's like
[TS]
◼
►
because you don't even you don't even
[TS]
◼
►
see all the crap that comes to because I
[TS]
◼
►
don't really use that email address but
[TS]
◼
►
but it is publicly visible and so like
[TS]
◼
►
the web scrapers have long since found
[TS]
◼
►
but not what a nightmare so I've talked
[TS]
◼
►
way too much this episode people love
[TS]
◼
►
you man this is great
[TS]
◼
►
yeah people are all mad at me and John
[TS]
◼
►
for being negative Apple last week so we
[TS]
◼
►
need you to rescue us this man got your
[TS]
◼
►
listeners back that's it John you played
[TS]
◼
►
games lately it's one game i wanted to
[TS]
◼
►
talk about not review this maybe we'll
[TS]
◼
►
talk about it unlike some other products
[TS]
◼
►
we spoil the game everything but i just
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to encourage people to take a
[TS]
◼
►
look at the game because i have plated
[TS]
◼
►
and I enjoyed it and I don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
spoil it for you but i do want to
[TS]
◼
►
explain to you why you might want to
[TS]
◼
►
play this game the game is fire watched
[TS]
◼
►
by campo santo I don't know how to
[TS]
◼
►
pronounce the name of that I've never
[TS]
◼
►
actually said it out loud until now it
[TS]
◼
►
seems like a reasonable guess yeah out
[TS]
◼
►
in cooperation with our friends at panic
[TS]
◼
►
makers of transmitting koda and many
[TS]
◼
►
other fine products and other fun things
[TS]
◼
►
and they started development in this
[TS]
◼
►
game is the weird thing for panic to
[TS]
◼
►
even be involved at all because they are
[TS]
◼
►
mac and iOS software company not a game
[TS]
◼
►
maker but they are a lot of gamers on
[TS]
◼
►
the staff there and this is something i
[TS]
◼
►
want to try and so that helps to get
[TS]
◼
►
this project underway and it's a bunch
[TS]
◼
►
of game veterans actually making the
[TS]
◼
►
game so this is not a bunch of newbies
[TS]
◼
►
making this thing it's my type of game
[TS]
◼
►
if you heard me talk about games on
[TS]
◼
►
other podcasts I like artsy fartsy games
[TS]
◼
►
which is a way of saying like not games
[TS]
◼
►
that are filled and not the equivalent
[TS]
◼
►
of block west hollywood blockbuster
[TS]
◼
►
movies that are just like filled with
[TS]
◼
►
space marines and huge budgets and
[TS]
◼
►
millions and millions of people buy them
[TS]
◼
►
this is more like independent arthouse
[TS]
◼
►
movies that have a limited appeal but
[TS]
◼
►
the people like to really love them I
[TS]
◼
►
love games like that this is one of
[TS]
◼
►
those games and the reason i like want
[TS]
◼
►
to encourage people do this is back to
[TS]
◼
►
something I talk about hypocritical and
[TS]
◼
►
I always do well on the skill barrier to
[TS]
◼
►
enjoyment of video games i really
[TS]
◼
►
enjoyed video games I like other people
[TS]
◼
►
to enjoy them but I know there's some
[TS]
◼
►
inherent amount of experience with video
[TS]
◼
►
games that you need to have before you
[TS]
◼
►
can enjoy one much more so than other
[TS]
◼
►
media like movies where maybe you need
[TS]
◼
►
to have some knowledge of like the
[TS]
◼
►
history of film but in general a really
[TS]
◼
►
good movie can be enjoyed by anybody you
[TS]
◼
►
sort of lives in the same societies you
[TS]
◼
►
at the very least like video games
[TS]
◼
►
really there really are a lot of skills
[TS]
◼
►
they need to be required before you
[TS]
◼
►
don't have to think about those skills
[TS]
◼
►
and can instead enjoy the game for what
[TS]
◼
►
it is so Firewatch is one of those games
[TS]
◼
►
that requires very little of you in
[TS]
◼
►
terms of knowledge of how video games
[TS]
◼
►
work skill with the controller whatever
[TS]
◼
►
there's not a lot of complicated
[TS]
◼
►
mechanics it's not a lot of rules or
[TS]
◼
►
systems it doesn't demand lightning-fast
[TS]
◼
►
reflexes or anything like that it does
[TS]
◼
►
require you to know how to orient around
[TS]
◼
►
yourself in 3d space and sort of a
[TS]
◼
►
first-person type thing but it is very
[TS]
◼
►
slow and you won't be for the most part
[TS]
◼
►
rush there is some limited amount of
[TS]
◼
►
being able to use either a controller or
[TS]
◼
►
a mouse and a keyboard required of you
[TS]
◼
►
like it's not you know it's a game you
[TS]
◼
►
do have to play it but it is very gentle
[TS]
◼
►
and I think it's an interesting game
[TS]
◼
►
that it gives me an opportunity to
[TS]
◼
►
recommend it to people who i wouldn't
[TS]
◼
►
recommend so you know destiny or one of
[TS]
◼
►
some other game that I like that I just
[TS]
◼
►
know is not going to be appealing to
[TS]
◼
►
people who are into video games just so
[TS]
◼
►
complicated and so in depth so in my
[TS]
◼
►
ongoing effort to get more people to
[TS]
◼
►
like video games i would encourage
[TS]
◼
►
everybody who either has a playstation 4
[TS]
◼
►
or a mac or pc to check out this game it
[TS]
◼
►
does require a somewhat substantial of
[TS]
◼
►
mac or pc i figured with the actual
[TS]
◼
►
requirements are but some people have
[TS]
◼
►
said on Twitter that it helps if you
[TS]
◼
►
have a discrete GPU on the mac i
[TS]
◼
►
don't--that's a hard-and-fast
[TS]
◼
►
requirement i played on the PlayStation
[TS]
◼
►
it's nice to have a playstation 4 busy
[TS]
◼
►
like a run to the PlayStation 4 i have
[TS]
◼
►
one of those I'm fine i think it runs
[TS]
◼
►
better on a beefy gaming pc or mac with
[TS]
◼
►
a big video card but you know from all
[TS]
◼
►
the people responding on Twitter like
[TS]
◼
►
nobody has a mac with a good video card
[TS]
◼
►
anymore they all have the you know
[TS]
◼
►
integrated graphics people in another
[TS]
◼
►
discrete graphics in there you know and
[TS]
◼
►
the laptops who gets three graphics but
[TS]
◼
►
anyway check that your requirements
[TS]
◼
►
before you buy it's available on Steam
[TS]
◼
►
they do have a better refund policy than
[TS]
◼
►
the apps in the app store so your you
[TS]
◼
►
might be in luck there
[TS]
◼
►
it's fairly inexpensive is like 20 bucks
[TS]
◼
►
or something it's not a long game which
[TS]
◼
►
you might think oh that's I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
getting value for money but i think that
[TS]
◼
►
is a good aspect of the game like this
[TS]
◼
►
the reason i recommend
[TS]
◼
►
it is you don't have to sink like a
[TS]
◼
►
hundred hours into this thing it you can
[TS]
◼
►
be finished with the game in between
[TS]
◼
►
three and four hours might be my first
[TS]
◼
►
run through the game was like three and
[TS]
◼
►
a half hours you could take much longer
[TS]
◼
►
if you go slower or whatever but the
[TS]
◼
►
point is you're not investing your whole
[TS]
◼
►
life in this game it's more like
[TS]
◼
►
watching a really long movie or maybe
[TS]
◼
►
two really long movies so think of the
[TS]
◼
►
length as a as a benefit to people i
[TS]
◼
►
think of it like that but as a benefit
[TS]
◼
►
to people who don't play games so much
[TS]
◼
►
because you don't want to send them in
[TS]
◼
►
did you know really after the first 25
[TS]
◼
►
hours it really starts to get
[TS]
◼
►
that's not that's a non-starter for
[TS]
◼
►
people haven't said anything about what
[TS]
◼
►
the game is about it's called Firewatch
[TS]
◼
►
it's the ideas like a big house in the
[TS]
◼
►
middle of the woods that you look around
[TS]
◼
►
into spot fires in the woods and report
[TS]
◼
►
them if you're like a forest ranger uh
[TS]
◼
►
that doesn't tell you anything about the
[TS]
◼
►
game so what do i do i just go to this
[TS]
◼
►
place and look out the window it is a
[TS]
◼
►
narrative type game where there is
[TS]
◼
►
mostly you're in for the characters and
[TS]
◼
►
the stories again is not based on
[TS]
◼
►
mechanics you're not going to be you
[TS]
◼
►
know you know traversing a tech tree a
[TS]
◼
►
whore finding resources or leveling up
[TS]
◼
►
your character doing the other things
[TS]
◼
►
you typically do in more traditional
[TS]
◼
►
game this is much more of a narrative
[TS]
◼
►
driven game all these things that I've
[TS]
◼
►
said about the game may make people who
[TS]
◼
►
are into games the so-called hardcore
[TS]
◼
►
gamers who love games like starcraft and
[TS]
◼
►
destiny and you know
[TS]
◼
►
battlefront and all these other things
[TS]
◼
►
like people love those type of games you
[TS]
◼
►
know gamey games you know that the
[TS]
◼
►
quote-unquote self-described gamers may
[TS]
◼
►
think this is not the game for them and
[TS]
◼
►
maybe it isn't because i like 10 games
[TS]
◼
►
like artsy fartsy games but if you
[TS]
◼
►
demand the challenge of a blood-borne or
[TS]
◼
►
something you're not going to find it
[TS]
◼
►
here so I but I feel like gamers already
[TS]
◼
►
know about this game they know all the
[TS]
◼
►
review sites they read reviews of it in
[TS]
◼
►
over this is that the game they're going
[TS]
◼
►
to like I mostly talking to the people
[TS]
◼
►
who would think video games that's not
[TS]
◼
►
for me that you're complicated consider
[TS]
◼
►
giving the truck it could be like I said
[TS]
◼
►
I've people on Twitter basket i always
[TS]
◼
►
ask them have you played the first
[TS]
◼
►
person game before you have any sort of
[TS]
◼
►
like medium level of competence of like
[TS]
◼
►
oh I know which direction I'm pointed in
[TS]
◼
►
a 3d World and I can walk around and
[TS]
◼
►
look at things that's really all that's
[TS]
◼
►
required of you and some minor button
[TS]
◼
►
pressing if you pass that hurdle give it
[TS]
◼
►
and Mark own cases should definitely
[TS]
◼
►
play it because it's short and they
[TS]
◼
►
never play any games and they can both
[TS]
◼
►
whether they'll enjoy it or not who
[TS]
◼
►
knows because I don't get one of them
[TS]
◼
►
likes artsy-fartsy movies as far as that
[TS]
◼
►
goes but for everyone else
[TS]
◼
►
check it out it's really cool and
[TS]
◼
►
minimum the game looks beautiful even if
[TS]
◼
►
you just launched a look at the title
[TS]
◼
►
damn those guys are good at what they do
[TS]
◼
►
now serious question can can we pull
[TS]
◼
►
Merlin on this and do it in half and
[TS]
◼
►
half or do you really need to dedicate
[TS]
◼
►
like three or four hours to I don't
[TS]
◼
►
think you need to do the one sitting I
[TS]
◼
►
didn't want something accidentally like
[TS]
◼
►
i was i was saving this for the weekend
[TS]
◼
►
because i liked to have had the game for
[TS]
◼
►
a little while to after awhile I was
[TS]
◼
►
like I don't want to like I want to rush
[TS]
◼
►
it on a work night or you know be up
[TS]
◼
►
later whatever to stay for the weekend
[TS]
◼
►
but last night my wife wanted to do
[TS]
◼
►
something else instead of watch TV show
[TS]
◼
►
that makes you want to watch the one
[TS]
◼
►
that shows that she was just like all
[TS]
◼
►
find something to myself I said you know
[TS]
◼
►
I've got fire watching people's people
[TS]
◼
►
talking about on the internet maybe even
[TS]
◼
►
just don't know just started maybe I'll
[TS]
◼
►
just launched its see what it's like or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever and then I started playing in
[TS]
◼
►
of course they couldn't stop and you
[TS]
◼
►
know i just ran through the whole game
[TS]
◼
►
one setting you do not need to play this
[TS]
◼
►
entire game one sitting but i would
[TS]
◼
►
encourage you to play the game and a
[TS]
◼
►
small number of sittings don't play for
[TS]
◼
►
five minutes and then leave the next day
[TS]
◼
►
in five minutes with me for the next day
[TS]
◼
►
like because it is a narrative because
[TS]
◼
►
it is all that moving character you need
[TS]
◼
►
to have some amount of through-line like
[TS]
◼
►
you wouldn't watch you know it say
[TS]
◼
►
you're watching like a four-hour movie
[TS]
◼
►
you would watching five-minute
[TS]
◼
►
increments what you want to do in two
[TS]
◼
►
sittings that's probably okay actually
[TS]
◼
►
it's really not okay because i have
[TS]
◼
►
different rules for movies but this game
[TS]
◼
►
i'm gonna say if you want to do in
[TS]
◼
►
multiple settings that fine if you do it
[TS]
◼
►
on one is great and I think it's even
[TS]
◼
►
more powerful that way but asking
[TS]
◼
►
someone to sit in front of their TV for
[TS]
◼
►
three to four hours is asking probably a
[TS]
◼
►
bit too much of someone who's not into
[TS]
◼
►
fair enough that i'd like to try i
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to try to even before you were
[TS]
◼
►
talking about it but we'll see when I
[TS]
◼
►
have the time knowing me it'll be it
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know year and a half men don't
[TS]
◼
►
like that so yeah it's always going to
[TS]
◼
►
read any spoilers for it just you'll be
[TS]
◼
►
that's that's also part of the reason
[TS]
◼
►
was afraid I was gonna get spoiled like
[TS]
◼
►
better going to get going on this sooner
[TS]
◼
►
rather than later
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah hopefully we'll hopefully I'll
[TS]
◼
►
find the time try it soon
[TS]
◼
►
alright alright thanks a lot two or
[TS]
◼
►
three sponsors this week
[TS]
◼
►
Squarespace a glue and mail route and we
[TS]
◼
►
will see you next week
[TS]
◼
►
now the show is over they didn't even
[TS]
◼
►
mean to begin as it was accidental
[TS]
◼
►
it was accidental
[TS]
◼
►
John research Marco in kc wouldn't let
[TS]
◼
►
him because it was accidentally was
[TS]
◼
►
accidental and you can find show know
[TS]
◼
►
the day EP die and if your twitter
[TS]
◼
►
yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a
[TS]
◼
►
co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at
[TS]
◼
►
so here's a question so I i am
[TS]
◼
►
interested in playing Firewatch i have a
[TS]
◼
►
that I have this imac i also have a ps4
[TS]
◼
►
I generally prefer using a computer for
[TS]
◼
►
first-person games but I don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
why not stainless Feinstein's least of
[TS]
◼
►
your concerns team is nice actually i
[TS]
◼
►
think that this is a lot of mac users
[TS]
◼
►
first experience with steam and it looks
[TS]
◼
►
atrocious and it's filled with like I
[TS]
◼
►
wonder companies don't get sued for this
[TS]
◼
►
like you remember the old gumball window
[TS]
◼
►
widgets the red yellow and green you
[TS]
◼
►
know when they used to look like they
[TS]
◼
►
look like glowing spheres well so steam
[TS]
◼
►
is entirely seems not a native mac
[TS]
◼
►
application i don't know what it's made
[TS]
◼
►
out of but they basically took steam and
[TS]
◼
►
dressed it up in the skin a mac
[TS]
◼
►
application and you know with their own
[TS]
◼
►
graphic so they basically copied and
[TS]
◼
►
pasted the old glowing balls from like
[TS]
◼
►
10.6 or whatever and put them in the
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corner of their windows and then just
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left them there and as the OSS vol.10
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710 810 910 it little glowing balls are
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still out there and you realize that
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really isn't like nothing on the screen
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as a negative control it and like nope
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they're just did is a you know a wolf in
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sheep's clothing so it doesn't it looks
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weird doesn't look anything like a mac
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app or whatever but here's what i like
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about steam it also doesn't work and
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install the startup items everywhere
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it's like not what I did not start out
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by a while yeah it does want around
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launch but you can you can turn that off
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yeah it constantly runs it it puts
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itself everywhere and it's a terrible
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app and it's like the well here's what's
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good about steam it lets you download
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games and play them which sounds like
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that's what so what
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but in the days before steam when you
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have to download some kind of installer
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to your windows pc and get the installer
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to run with on the same on the same pc
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that other games are also installed on
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and they would fight each other and you
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have to fight over graphics card
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settings there's a reason steam is so
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popular because it took the terrible
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world of gaming on the pc not
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necessarily the mac because it was very
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little game they're all getting on the
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pc and made it way less terrible it's
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still not as good as it should be
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maybe but I love steam and I even love
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steam on the mac even though it has a
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weird updater even though it wants to
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launch on login items like it does silly
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things you can stop it from doing them
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it doesn't come with malware it has
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better for the most part has better
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you know and refund policy and sales and
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trials and all the other things that you
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can do in early access and stuff better
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than the app store now that's a high bar
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but better than the app store for buying
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games probably have stuff for selling
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games as well the cable was tweeting
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today how exciting it was that on the
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day they launched fire watching steam
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they had already issued two bug fix
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updates because I'm statements and steam
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once your game is accepted to the to the
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steam store you do updates without any
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interference at all you just post them
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they go up immediately
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yeah I wouldn't mind Apple taking some
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of their inspiration for the app store
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from steam if they if they want to know
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where things could be improved
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don't look at the apple the app store
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apps are garbage but don't look at the
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steam app because the steam app kind of
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to me the steam at feels like how do I
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put this gently it feels like not only a
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Windows app that is running on your Mac
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►
not only that because bad enough but it
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also feels like it is a Windows web app
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designed to run in internet explorer 3.0
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which they have embedded in the app and
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is running in virtual pc and malaysian
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through Rosetta emulation on your Mac
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that's how it feel I think it's better
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than the mac app store apps you don't
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you think it's better than the Mac App
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Store app just in terms of the sheer
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number of features the ways you can view
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►
your data it is not as good as the iOS
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►
App Store app which again is not saying
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much but it is way better than the mac
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►
app store at because the Mac App Store
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►
app actually works worse than steam and
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►
that is saying a lot because the steam
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app just does not work doing so many
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►
stupid little things but wow the Mac App
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►
Store app is even worse anyway I would
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heartily endorse team as a way for mac
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for Mac users to get and play games even
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►
though the place the you buy stuff
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►
through his little bit weird and look
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►
just because you will be successful you
[TS]
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►
will be able to purchase a game it will
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►
download it for you when you want to
[TS]
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►
launch you go to steam steam and you can
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►
double click it and you'll be able to
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►
play the game and you will never be able
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►
to get rid of steam again you cannot
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install a fine and that that's the best
[TS]
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►
thing about steam is like it's that you
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►
know all the all the great things about
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►
the app store before the appstore say
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►
you're done playing game and you want to
[TS]
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►
free up some hard drive space on
[TS]
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►
installing weight is the game gone did I
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►
well behaved modern steam game
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►
save all your save stuff and stayed in
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►
the cloud and everything so you can
[TS]
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►
install the game to free up disk space
[TS]
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►
know that you can reinstall the game
[TS]
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►
later and get all your stuff back again
[TS]
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►
well-behaved students
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►
you have to have some interesting games
[TS]
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►
don't do that and it really annoys me
[TS]
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►
but the good ones do everything right
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