Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:07 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to episode 440 of Connected.

00:00:12 ◼   ► This is a podcast from Relay FM.

00:00:15 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by Federico Fettucci.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Hi Federico.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Hello Mike. Kind of a low energy intro.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Well, I get lost now.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Emily, Mike low energy today.

00:00:25 ◼   ► I also forgot to say this episode is brought to you by ExpressVPN.

00:00:29 ◼   ► indeed an hover. I'm pleased you remembered now. I know how to introduce

00:00:33 ◼   ► like the shows I introduce you know like I'm not used to introducing this one

00:00:37 ◼   ► obviously Steven's not here. Right I just wanted to double check to double check

00:00:40 ◼   ► that this is from Reel AFM like it's not some fake version of connected is it

00:00:45 ◼   ► from Reel AFM? Is it the one? I guess that's a question to ask yourself right

00:00:51 ◼   ► like if the three of us aren't here is it fake connected? It's faux connected

00:00:57 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Although, to be honest, can you imagine, like, fake connected, like, how bad that would be

00:01:02 ◼   ► if someone tried to, like...

00:01:03 ◼   ► Yeah, like, swap the three of us with some other three guys?

00:01:05 ◼   ► It would be so bad, like, if someone thought that they could do that, like, that they actually

00:01:09 ◼   ► thought that they would be good enough to try and pretend they could be us.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Yeah, no, we don't want to think about that.

00:01:14 ◼   ► We don't want to think about that.

00:01:15 ◼   ► There's only one connected.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Don't even try.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Don't even come at us.

00:01:18 ◼   ► I've got some follow-up for you if you'd like it.

00:01:21 ◼   ► Okay, yes, I like it.

00:01:23 ◼   ► So we were talking about live activities last time.

00:01:26 ◼   ► There are sports scores, we were talking about this as a thing and Stephen has some sports

00:01:31 ◼   ► app, I don't know, he's always doing all kinds of sports, he's going to games and like sending

00:01:36 ◼   ► me images, I don't know what it's all about.

00:01:38 ◼   ► He's a sporty guy.

00:01:40 ◼   ► But there are a few other instances, so Apple's TV app now does live activities for the major

00:01:46 ◼   ► league soccer game scores.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Oh okay.

00:01:49 ◼   ► Right, so because that's the thing they do.

00:01:52 ◼   ► there are if you I think there is a thing where if you use the sports feature in news

00:01:58 ◼   ► now it sometimes can tie into the TV app and show you sports scores as well so the TV app

00:02:03 ◼   ► does it.

00:02:05 ◼   ► Listener Levi pointed out the official NFL app has live activity support and I wanted

00:02:10 ◼   ► to follow up to say that the Formula One app that I was using called BoxBox now the first

00:02:16 ◼   ► race of the season is done I got to experience their like Dynamic Island and live activity

00:02:22 ◼   ► support. I thought it was pretty good. All of these things I think it's only as good as the

00:02:28 ◼   ► frequency that they get the data and the frequency that they can update the information. So like I

00:02:35 ◼   ► don't think that this kind of stuff is a good companion to actually watching live. Like if

00:02:40 ◼   ► you're watching live and want the information, open the apps or whatever to get it. But as a way to be

00:02:45 ◼   ► able to keep up with something if you can't watch live, I think that this is an example of it working

00:02:50 ◼   ► pretty well. But I turned on that feature where you can have some apps update more frequently.

00:02:57 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:58 ◼   ► And actually the reason I turned it on, I'd forgotten about it, because you know it's

00:03:01 ◼   ► like a toggle you can get, right? But the live activity itself prompted me to turn it

00:03:08 ◼   ► on. It was like this app would benefit from more like increased frequency or whatever

00:03:13 ◼   ► they call it of update. And so I was able to turn it on in the same way that it gives

00:03:18 ◼   ► you that little drop down to be like would you like to allow this live

00:03:21 ◼   ► activity there was a similar one there about about increased frequency of

00:03:25 ◼   ► updating I heard that Ferrari didn't didn't do so well no no I heard I didn't

00:03:33 ◼   ► I didn't watch it I never well I used to I used to watch Formula One as a kid but

00:03:40 ◼   ► I am familiar because it's it's always on the news here when I when I turn on

00:03:43 ◼   ► the news usually at lunchtime and yeah I hear in the background that it didn't

00:03:48 ◼   ► do so well. The Tofosi would have been mad. Yeah. Yeah, no it wasn't good. Okay.

00:03:55 ◼   ► No, it's not, not, not good again. We'll see. I have hopes for him but not a great

00:04:02 ◼   ► start but there's only one race so far so a lot can change. Mm-hmm. Even though

00:04:08 ◼   ► Steven's not here this week I wanted to mention something that he was working on

00:04:12 ◼   ► for Rogue Amoeba. Did you see this? I saw this. This is the Rogue Amoeba screenshot

00:04:17 ◼   ► archive so listen this had steven's fingerprints all over it all over this project yeah even if

00:04:22 ◼   ► they wouldn't have mentioned it you would assume that he'd done it yes uh so if you remember steven

00:04:28 ◼   ► some years ago seemed to punish himself by uh creating the mac os screenshot archive where

00:04:35 ◼   ► he took screenshots of mac os features and apps running on the actual hardware that they were

00:04:43 ◼   ► were running on and then put together like an archive of all of that and it's

00:04:49 ◼   ► got it on the on his website the 512 pixels website yes and so Roga Miba

00:04:55 ◼   ► asked him if he would do this to celebrate their 20th anniversary so they

00:04:59 ◼   ► gave him I accept app binaries and code of various apps that he had to compile

00:05:05 ◼   ► and then run on old hardware so he took the screenshots on the hardware that

00:05:11 ◼   ► that these things would have run on.

00:05:13 ◼   ► And now there is an archive of the applications over time

00:05:17 ◼   ► on the Rogamiva website, which is pretty cool.

00:05:21 ◼   ► My favorite one of these is Piezo.

00:05:23 ◼   ► 'Cause I use Piezo sometimes, and I look at it,

00:05:27 ◼   ► it's like, oh, it's like a cute,

00:05:28 ◼   ► now it feels like a throwback, right?

00:05:30 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like-- - It never changed.

00:05:31 ◼   ► - 'Cause it has been around since 2011,

00:05:34 ◼   ► and the main UI of the app has never changed.

00:05:36 ◼   ► And I just think that that is like an incredible thing

00:05:39 ◼   ► that like, it was retro-inspired,

00:05:41 ◼   ► and then like it's meant to look like old kind of radio stuff.

00:05:45 ◼   ► And there's something about that where it still works for me visually

00:05:49 ◼   ► because it was always designed to be old.

00:05:51 ◼   ► And I just think that that's really funny.

00:05:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Yeah, if something is already old,

00:05:57 ◼   ► you're never going to notice it's aging.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Kind of like Steven, if you think about it.

00:06:01 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Steven is the piezo of the show.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Steven is the piezo of people.

00:06:09 ◼   ► (both laughing)

00:06:12 ◼   ► - iOS 16.4 beta 3 allows you to sign in

00:06:18 ◼   ► to a different Apple ID to download like apps, not apps, OSs.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Remember we spoke about this last time

00:06:26 ◼   ► that they were basically gonna be tying app update.

00:06:31 ◼   ► I keep saying app, OS updates of betas to an Apple ID.

00:06:36 ◼   ► So you didn't have to deal with that profile nonsense

00:06:38 ◼   ► anymore and something that a few people worried about was like well if I'm a

00:06:42 ◼   ► developer and my developer ID is actually a different Apple ID to my

00:06:46 ◼   ► personal ID which is probably a good way to run things. I am one of those people yes.

00:06:50 ◼   ► I mean it makes a lot of sense right because then if you're taking

00:06:53 ◼   ► screenshots or when people were using testing devices that it hasn't got that

00:06:56 ◼   ► actual information attached to it so Apple have put this into beta 3 to allow

00:07:02 ◼   ► you to sign into a different Apple ID for beta software which I think I mean

00:07:07 ◼   ► I mean, I've got to hand it to them.

00:07:08 ◼   ► I don't know if they were planning this already

00:07:10 ◼   ► and they just pushed the first version,

00:07:11 ◼   ► but like they got that taken care of real quick.

00:07:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, this is great.

00:07:15 ◼   ► I have that exact setup.

00:07:17 ◼   ► I have my main Apple ID, which is an iCloud account,

00:07:20 ◼   ► but I have my developer account,

00:07:22 ◼   ► which is tied to a different email address.

00:07:24 ◼   ► And so being able to separate those

00:07:26 ◼   ► and maybe choose not to sign in with my main Apple ID

00:07:29 ◼   ► on a testing device or in the summary,

00:07:31 ◼   ► if the betas are rough or whatever, much, much better.

00:07:34 ◼   ► And I don't have to deal with that profile nonsense

00:07:36 ◼   ► that you mentioned, like just log in

00:07:37 ◼   ► with your developer account.

00:07:38 ◼   ► We're gonna see the different types of betas

00:07:41 ◼   ► that you can install.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I believe there's three categories.

00:07:44 ◼   ► You can choose between developer betas, public betas,

00:07:48 ◼   ► and I think there's a different category

00:07:49 ◼   ► called customer beta, which is kind of weird.

00:07:52 ◼   ► It should be the Apple Seed testing program.

00:07:55 ◼   ► I think it shows up as customer beta

00:07:59 ◼   ► in those categories of types of beta releases

00:08:02 ◼   ► you can install.

00:08:03 ◼   ► So very nicely done, about time.

00:08:05 ◼   ► We don't have to deal, like I remember the dark times of,

00:08:09 ◼   ► hopefully this will propagate to other Apple devices.

00:08:14 ◼   ► And I'm looking especially at the Apple TV.

00:08:16 ◼   ► I remember when I used to store my beta profile in Dropbox,

00:08:21 ◼   ► and then I had to paste the URL of the Dropbox file

00:08:27 ◼   ► via the iPhone keyboard to the Apple TV.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Man, that was rough.

00:08:34 ◼   ► And I think it's become easier over time

00:08:38 ◼   ► to install betas on tvOS.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Hopefully this account-based system

00:08:43 ◼   ► will also be available on tvOS.

00:08:45 ◼   ► I haven't checked if it is already in 16.4

00:08:48 ◼   ► because normally I don't run tvOS betas during the year.

00:08:53 ◼   ► I just install it in June.

00:08:55 ◼   ► Maybe you should do it as the US guy.

00:08:58 ◼   ► - Actually, you know what I probably should.

00:08:58 ◼   ► - Maybe you should tell me.

00:08:59 ◼   ► - I should be on top of this.

00:09:00 ◼   ► - If the account system is already there.

00:09:03 ◼   ► But yes, this is great.

00:09:04 ◼   ► - Which is yes, Federico.

00:09:05 ◼   ► - Nice, perfect.

00:09:06 ◼   ► So no more dealing with the profile.

00:09:10 ◼   ► - And you can trust me, 'cause I definitely checked.

00:09:13 ◼   ► - I can trust you.

00:09:14 ◼   ► And look, if the information is incorrect,

00:09:18 ◼   ► your reputation is on the line.

00:09:21 ◼   ► - No, you can just assume I have like a secret beta

00:09:24 ◼   ► that has the feature, that's what you can assume.

00:09:27 ◼   ► - Sure, sure.

00:09:28 ◼   ► - Tip, tap, meme.

00:09:29 ◼   ► - Made just for you, okay.

00:09:32 ◼   ► - Apple frames 3.1.1 has been released.

00:09:36 ◼   ► - Small update.

00:09:37 ◼   ► - Okay, what is so small about it?

00:09:40 ◼   ► - Well, it's really something that I,

00:09:42 ◼   ► that as soon as Apple frames 3.1 came out,

00:09:45 ◼   ► I realized, oh, I forgot to include this option,

00:09:49 ◼   ► which is kind of obvious in hindsight.

00:09:50 ◼   ► And as soon as I saw it,

00:09:51 ◼   ► and as soon as I saw how people were using Apple frames 3.1

00:09:55 ◼   ► with the Apple frames API,

00:09:57 ◼   ► I realized, well, this is something I should have.

00:09:59 ◼   ► So as we discussed last week,

00:10:01 ◼   ► One of the changes of Apple Frames 3.1 is the ability

00:10:04 ◼   ► to use it as a feature of other shortcuts, right?

00:10:08 ◼   ► Shortcuts as an action called run shortcut

00:10:11 ◼   ► that you can include in one of your other shortcuts.

00:10:15 ◼   ► The idea being you wanna put together

00:10:18 ◼   ► like a longer workflow that, you know,

00:10:20 ◼   ► does a bunch of different things.

00:10:22 ◼   ► And maybe one of those things is,

00:10:24 ◼   ► oh, you should also run these other shortcut

00:10:26 ◼   ► that I have in my library.

00:10:27 ◼   ► And so that becomes, it becomes possible

00:10:29 ◼   ► with Apple Frames 3.1 to turn the shortcut,

00:10:34 ◼   ► which normally it presents you with a menu,

00:10:38 ◼   ► it lets you choose images,

00:10:40 ◼   ► it lets you choose what you wanna do at the end.

00:10:42 ◼   ► Instead, you turn the shortcut into a feature

00:10:45 ◼   ► to frame screenshots in whatever other shortcut

00:10:49 ◼   ► you may be using.

00:10:50 ◼   ► But something that was missing from that approach was,

00:10:54 ◼   ► well, what if you just wanna use the shortcut

00:10:56 ◼   ► as a function, as a feature, and you just want to pass the output of Apple Frames through

00:11:04 ◼   ► to the next action.

00:11:06 ◼   ► And the original version of Apple Frames 3.1 could only do that via a workaround, like

00:11:13 ◼   ► store the framed image in the system clipboard.

00:11:18 ◼   ► And that was doable, but I realized, no, I should have a proper, like a native pass-through

00:11:25 ◼   ► output feature.

00:11:26 ◼   ► So that's what I added in 3.1.1.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Now you can frame an image and you can pass it on to the next action in a shortcut

00:11:36 ◼   ► without having to store that framed image anywhere.

00:11:40 ◼   ► Not in files, not in the clipboard, not anywhere else.

00:11:44 ◼   ► You just pass it on to the next action as a variable.

00:11:47 ◼   ► That's it.

00:11:48 ◼   ► That's nice.

00:11:49 ◼   ► How was the reaction in general to the frames API stuff?

00:11:53 ◼   ► Oh, super good.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Did people understand it?

00:11:55 ◼   ► Yes.

00:11:55 ◼   ► getting questions, like what was it like?

00:11:58 ◼   ► - I'm getting questions, it's been so nice to hear

00:12:02 ◼   ► from developers and designers who I knew were relying

00:12:06 ◼   ► on this before, like when they saw the option

00:12:09 ◼   ► to like batch process an entire folder of screenshots.

00:12:13 ◼   ► Like I heard from a few people that were super happy

00:12:15 ◼   ► to see that.

00:12:16 ◼   ► My friend Matt Bertrall on YouTube,

00:12:20 ◼   ► has an excellent channel.

00:12:23 ◼   ► he put together this video showing off how to use Apple Frames 3.1 with Hazel on macOS,

00:12:30 ◼   ► which is a fantastic idea and exactly what I was thinking of.

00:12:34 ◼   ► You can incorporate Apple Frames into other types of automations, other types of workflows.

00:12:40 ◼   ► And the video that Matt did showed off, you have a folder on your Mac and you want to

00:12:46 ◼   ► monitor that folder and anytime there's a screenshot in it, you want to frame it, you

00:12:52 ◼   ► can do that.

00:12:53 ◼   ► Hazel monitors the folder and if it picks up a screenshot, it runs Apple Frames on it.

00:12:58 ◼   ► That's very smart.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Wild! And one of the things you can do with the Apple Frames API.

00:13:03 ◼   ► On macOS, you just invoke Apple Frames, you give some commands to it,

00:13:08 ◼   ► and you say, "Yeah, take this image and save it back in this folder,

00:13:12 ◼   ► or save it into another folder, like whatever you want to do."

00:13:15 ◼   ► And Hazel just works out of the box with it.

00:13:18 ◼   ► I'll put that link in the show notes.

00:13:21 ◼   ► - How I'm using-- - A better computer, I think,

00:13:23 ◼   ► is the name of the channel. - A better computer, yeah.

00:13:24 ◼   ► - Yes, great channel.

00:13:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, he does good stuff.

00:13:26 ◼   ► I liked some videos about Arc when me and Jason

00:13:29 ◼   ► were testing out the Arc browser,

00:13:31 ◼   ► 'cause he was using that a lot.

00:13:32 ◼   ► - Been watching those too, yeah.

00:13:33 ◼   ► - I still hope that they'll make an iOS version.

00:13:35 ◼   ► I like-- - I know.

00:13:36 ◼   ► - I know they're working on it.

00:13:38 ◼   ► - I think the roadmap said like,

00:13:40 ◼   ► iOS version first half of the year,

00:13:44 ◼   ► Windows version fall 2023.

00:13:46 ◼   ► I think that's their goal.

00:13:48 ◼   ► They're doing something very intriguing on Windows,

00:13:52 ◼   ► which is they're building Arc with Swift on Windows.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Which, yeah, yeah.

00:13:59 ◼   ► - Can you do that?

00:14:00 ◼   ► - Well, apparently so, yeah.

00:14:02 ◼   ► I forgot the details.

00:14:04 ◼   ► They have a video where one of the lead engineers on it

00:14:07 ◼   ► is explaining what they're doing,

00:14:09 ◼   ► but I'm pretty sure, yeah, that the gist of it was

00:14:11 ◼   ► we're gonna build it using Swift on Windows.

00:14:14 ◼   ► It's wild.

00:14:16 ◼   ► I just found a tweet.

00:14:19 ◼   ► "Ark..."

00:14:19 ◼   ► This is from Tom Warren.

00:14:21 ◼   ► "Ark will run Swift on Windows.

00:14:24 ◼   ► Most browsers running C++, it's going to be a heavy lift in the browser company

00:14:28 ◼   ► to get their code across from Mac OS and a big focus on UI and implement fluid elements."

00:14:34 ◼   ► This is...

00:14:34 ◼   ► That is wild.

00:14:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it's pretty incredible, honestly.

00:14:38 ◼   ► But yeah, they're going to do that.

00:14:40 ◼   ► And they...

00:14:40 ◼   ► I believe last week, one of the engineers showed off

00:14:45 ◼   ► like a very first working version on Windows,

00:14:49 ◼   ► which is like nothing.

00:14:50 ◼   ► It's basically like a blank canvas with a webpage.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Doesn't have any menus and the sidebar is like a gray box

00:14:56 ◼   ► on the left side, but hey, it's like hello world material.

00:15:00 ◼   ► It's working, just doesn't have a UI.

00:15:03 ◼   ► But yeah, they're building it with Swift.

00:15:06 ◼   ► - This almost feels like that conversation

00:15:09 ◼   ► we've had before about some apps moving to Swift UI sooner than they should.

00:15:16 ◼   ► I'm like, just because you can do something, does it mean you should do it?

00:15:21 ◼   ► Like, just because they maybe can make this work, like, should they though?

00:15:27 ◼   ► Like, I don't know if this is going to result in like a long term success for you.

00:15:32 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I don't know what to tell you.

00:15:36 ◼   ► But if the browser company, you know, they have money, they have funding,

00:15:41 ◼   ► and they got, you know, time and resources, I guess, and they want to do it.

00:15:46 ◼   ► There's a long video where they actually explain the thinking.

00:15:50 ◼   ► I found it.

00:15:51 ◼   ► Please link that because it's much more, you know, I'm sure the decision is much more nuanced

00:15:57 ◼   ► than what we just said, like, "Oh, they're doing it with Windows.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Hey, that's weird." I'm sure they had the reasons.

00:16:02 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure one of the big reasons is they want to build in one language

00:16:07 ◼   ► and they figured they could make this work somehow, but it just seems quite complicated.

00:16:14 ◼   ► I'm actually very intrigued to see how that project moves forward, to be honest.

00:16:20 ◼   ► Me too.

00:16:20 ◼   ► That would be really interesting.

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00:18:11 ◼   ► Tony in the live chat remarks that Swift on Windows

00:18:16 ◼   ► is a thing that was announced in 2020.

00:18:19 ◼   ► I have no doubt that it like works in a way, right?

00:18:22 ◼   ► But like, I still feel like you're a pioneer

00:18:25 ◼   ► no matter what you're doing, right?

00:18:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

00:18:29 ◼   ► Okay, it was announced in 2020.

00:18:31 ◼   ► Do we know other apps that are using Zwift on Windows?

00:18:34 ◼   ► - I feel like the fact that it was made a thing,

00:18:37 ◼   ► like in the press by people like Tom Warren,

00:18:39 ◼   ► would seem to suggest that maybe this might be

00:18:41 ◼   ► one of the more complicated projects.

00:18:43 ◼   ► - And I have a follow-up question.

00:18:44 ◼   ► The three apps that Apple recently made for Windows,

00:18:48 ◼   ► were they made with Zwift?

00:18:50 ◼   ► Or, I don't think they were.

00:18:53 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure they weren't.

00:18:54 ◼   ► - Interesting.

00:18:56 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:18:57 ◼   ► - Do you know what Apple did just make though?

00:19:01 ◼   ► The one thing we've all been waiting for, a yellow iPhone.

00:19:04 ◼   ► - Yellow.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Look at the stars.

00:19:08 ◼   ► Okay, we're shining for you.

00:19:10 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:19:12 ◼   ► And it was all yellow, Federica.

00:19:15 ◼   ► I mean, it's like this is the mid-seat,

00:19:17 ◼   ► like the mid-cycle color.

00:19:20 ◼   ► They chose yellow this time,

00:19:21 ◼   ► what we've had purple in the past.

00:19:23 ◼   ► I think that maybe it was the first one.

00:19:25 ◼   ► It was green, right?

00:19:27 ◼   ► I think.

00:19:29 ◼   ► But didn't the green one also have a green pro phone as well?

00:19:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's no pro yellow. - Can't do pro yellow.

00:19:38 ◼   ► - Yellow isn't for pros. - Pro yellow is gold.

00:19:40 ◼   ► And they already have that.

00:19:43 ◼   ► - Is it?

00:19:44 ◼   ► Is pro yellow gold?

00:19:46 ◼   ► No. - I feel like it.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Well, what would pro yellow be?

00:19:49 ◼   ► - Well, basic Apple guy on Mastodon.

00:19:52 ◼   ► They also moved to Mastodon.

00:19:54 ◼   ► They showed off exactly the kind of yellow that I wanted to have.

00:19:58 ◼   ► That doesn't feel like pro to me though.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Like in Apple's definition of like pro, which is like barely no color.

00:20:05 ◼   ► What basic Apple guy did was like, this is a good yellow.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Pro doesn't mean good.

00:20:10 ◼   ► I forgot because pro means bad color.

00:20:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:14 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:20:15 ◼   ► Well, still check out that mock-up.

00:20:17 ◼   ► That's exactly the kind of yellow I would have very much preferred to have

00:20:22 ◼   ► instead of this... how do we call this? Like, lime yellow? Like, bright yellow?

00:20:29 ◼   ► What kind of yellow is this?

00:20:30 ◼   ► To me, this is a very, like, Easter yellow. Like, a spring yellow.

00:20:36 ◼   ► Spring yellow. And the other one is what? Saturated yellow?

00:20:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:20:41 ◼   ► This is the problem with...

00:20:44 ◼   ► The thing about saturation is, like, this is what we always want from Apple.

00:20:47 ◼   ► We want the colors to be more saturated, like, always.

00:20:50 ◼   ► They do a decent job with some of the regular iPhone colors, but not always.

00:20:54 ◼   ► There's always like, more saturation is good, right?

00:20:57 ◼   ► Like you just want the colors to actually really tell you they're the colors.

00:21:00 ◼   ► I think like typically what people are more looking for is primary colors, right?

00:21:05 ◼   ► Like I think the things that the phone...

00:21:08 ◼   ► It's human nature to gravitate towards those colors.

00:21:10 ◼   ► Right? Like I think the phone colors that people tend to like most,

00:21:14 ◼   ► that Apple make are the ones that are more primary, red.

00:21:19 ◼   ► You know what's a good yellow? You know what's a good yellow?

00:21:21 ◼   ► I'm gonna call it Playdate Yellow. Now that's a good yellow.

00:21:25 ◼   ► That's a good yellow. That's the yellow we want.

00:21:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:28 ◼   ► I mean, there's not really anything to say about this, right?

00:21:30 ◼   ► But like it's just a thing that happens.

00:21:31 ◼   ► They have a press release for a yellow iPhone.

00:21:35 ◼   ► It's like it's still the same iPhone.

00:21:37 ◼   ► Although there are some details, some interesting details in the press release.

00:21:41 ◼   ► One of them being, emergency SOS is expanding to six more countries later this month,

00:21:47 ◼   ► month, which I don't know, does it imply that 16.4 is launching later this month? Maybe,

00:21:53 ◼   ► I don't know. Still, it's coming to Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal

00:21:58 ◼   ► and Italy. And I will probably activate this depending on...

00:22:02 ◼   ► - I'm trying.

00:22:03 ◼   ► - I'm gonna try it. I mean, see, that's the thing. I hope I never get to use this because

00:22:07 ◼   ► that means I'm in a bad situation. But I wanna test it. I wanna do the fancy thing that all

00:22:15 ◼   ► my friends in America did like pointing at the sky like find the satellite like

00:22:19 ◼   ► I wanna do that on my balcony you know okay let me find the satellite yeah and

00:22:23 ◼   ► you too will get the benefit of the really ugly satellite icon that now

00:22:28 ◼   ► appears whenever you don't have service yes I want I want I want I want the

00:22:32 ◼   ► ugly icon it's real bad man I don't know I don't need it like it's is it one of

00:22:36 ◼   ► those things that it's so bad it's kind of cute no hmm to me I don't like it

00:22:41 ◼   ► It's just like a big SOS and then there's this little like satellite.

00:22:45 ◼   ► So it's not like ugly dogs that are so ugly they are actually adorable.

00:22:50 ◼   ► You know, you all enjoy this. I love those kinds of dogs.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Yes, me too.

00:22:56 ◼   ► But like, no but me, right? I'm no dog guy.

00:23:00 ◼   ► But ugly dogs, I'm an ugly dog guy.

00:23:03 ◼   ► Maybe you should get an ugly dog. You should get an ugly dog.

00:23:05 ◼   ► If we ever get a dog, then I want an unconventional looking dog.

00:23:10 ◼   ► They're my favorite kind of dogs.

00:23:12 ◼   ► This is good information to have.

00:23:14 ◼   ► I mean, okay, why not revisit the dog topic now that you have a new home, more space.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I have mentally revisited this in the sense of like I now imagine having a dog in my life at some point.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Okay, that's good.

00:23:32 ◼   ► So my stance has changed.

00:23:34 ◼   ► Okay, that's good.

00:23:35 ◼   ► But it's just soon but not yet, you know what I mean?

00:23:38 ◼   ► That's kind of how I feel about it.

00:23:39 ◼   ► you at least entertained the idea.

00:23:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I now imagine I will have a dog

00:23:44 ◼   ► at some point in my life.

00:23:45 ◼   ► But now it's just a case of like, when?

00:23:49 ◼   ► But this isn't an immediate thing.

00:23:50 ◼   ► I don't imagine it happening within the next five years.

00:23:54 ◼   ► But I do now imagine myself as a dog owner at some point.

00:23:59 ◼   ► You know?

00:24:00 ◼   ► - An ugly retirement dog.

00:24:03 ◼   ► - Well, you see, it's like quote unquote ugly, right?

00:24:06 ◼   ► 'Cause I find dogs that are unconventional,

00:24:09 ◼   ► the most adorable.

00:24:10 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:24:11 ◼   ► - So, that might like, that's the sort of--

00:24:13 ◼   ► - I mean, no dog is ugly.

00:24:15 ◼   ► - Correct.

00:24:16 ◼   ► - But it's a shorthand to imply a certain type of dog.

00:24:20 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what we mean.

00:24:22 ◼   ► Okay, interesting.

00:24:23 ◼   ► - I still don't stand by your all dogs are good.

00:24:26 ◼   ► - Oh no, you are mistaken.

00:24:28 ◼   ► - I still don't stand by that.

00:24:29 ◼   ► - I can guarantee you that all dogs are good,

00:24:30 ◼   ► people are bad.

00:24:31 ◼   ► Owners are bad.

00:24:32 ◼   ► The context of a dog is bad.

00:24:36 ◼   ► The dog in itself is an excellent, good creature.

00:24:41 ◼   ► The context surrounding them is the problem.

00:24:45 ◼   ► - So maybe that's just where I need to get next, right?

00:24:48 ◼   ► Like this is in my dog journey,

00:24:49 ◼   ► is eventually agreeing like just naturally,

00:24:54 ◼   ► like all dogs are good.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Like I still haven't gotten to that yet.

00:24:57 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Like dogs are not like wolves.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Like they're not these wild creatures that-

00:25:04 ◼   ► - Wolves, not dogs?

00:25:05 ◼   ► No. Well, they're very similar, but they're not.

00:25:09 ◼   ► And dogs don't have, because of like how evolution has worked over millennia,

00:25:15 ◼   ► dogs just don't have the instinct to kill to survive like a wolf does, for example.

00:25:21 ◼   ► What about places where there are wild dogs, though?

00:25:24 ◼   ► But see, again, that goes back to the idea of the context of like a pack of dogs

00:25:32 ◼   ► that maybe were mistreated before, they're hungry, they were beaten before maybe, you know.

00:25:38 ◼   ► I think you're maybe associating dogs like, "Oh, that's a very bad dog, like,

00:25:46 ◼   ► like this is a wild creature who's gonna bite me." It's not like that. It's not like that. I guarantee you it's not like that.

00:25:53 ◼   ► They just need a little love and that's all.

00:25:57 ◼   ► Okay.

00:25:59 ◼   ► This is interesting though.

00:26:00 ◼   ► So there's a yellow iPhone.

00:26:02 ◼   ► - Okay, yes.

00:26:03 ◼   ► - There are also a bunch of new cases and bands.

00:26:07 ◼   ► This is like the spring refresh.

00:26:09 ◼   ► There are any colors of band that have caught your attention.

00:26:13 ◼   ► There's a bunch of new orange ones,

00:26:14 ◼   ► which I think look kind of cool.

00:26:16 ◼   ► And so, and obviously some yellow ones,

00:26:18 ◼   ► which look kind of cool.

00:26:20 ◼   ► My issue is they don't make,

00:26:22 ◼   ► they don't make the bands I want anymore.

00:26:24 ◼   ► Apple do not make them.

00:26:25 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:26:26 ◼   ► - All they want to do is the sport ones with,

00:26:31 ◼   ► and like the loop ones, they just want to make loops,

00:26:33 ◼   ► knowing that the actual like clasp ones.

00:26:36 ◼   ► And my favorite band, which is the magnetic one,

00:26:40 ◼   ► whatever it's called,

00:26:40 ◼   ► they don't make new colors of that very often.

00:26:43 ◼   ► - They make three types of bands now.

00:26:46 ◼   ► The rubber ones, the loop ones, and the Hermes ones.

00:26:52 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:26:53 ◼   ► - Like what happened to like when you were doing

00:26:55 ◼   ► the Milanese loop or the bracelet?

00:26:57 ◼   ► - I think they make refreshes there like once a year,

00:27:00 ◼   ► because I wanted to get the green version of the one I have

00:27:03 ◼   ► and they got rid of it and replaced it

00:27:04 ◼   ► with like a midnight one or something.

00:27:06 ◼   ► So like when they bring out new Apple Watches,

00:27:10 ◼   ► that's when they make some changes to those.

00:27:12 ◼   ► But I wished that they would have a little more variety

00:27:16 ◼   ► again in like what they're updating.

00:27:17 ◼   ► Like why did they only update the loop ones?

00:27:20 ◼   ► I still, I don't want the loop ones.

00:27:21 ◼   ► I just want to be able to take the watch off.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I don't want to like have to pull the watch off.

00:27:26 ◼   ► - Like we get it, you make loops.

00:27:28 ◼   ► that concept has been established.

00:27:29 ◼   ► - Everyone's so happy for you, we're so proud of you.

00:27:32 ◼   ► You worked out how to remove the car.

00:27:34 ◼   ► - You made your point, you can make loops.

00:27:37 ◼   ► - Everyone's so happy for you, you know, congratulations.

00:27:40 ◼   ► - Do you think they're overcompensating

00:27:41 ◼   ► for the fact that they don't have a campus at Infinite Loop

00:27:45 ◼   ► and now they just make loops for the watch?

00:27:47 ◼   ► - They just infinitely make loops for Apple Watches.

00:27:50 ◼   ► - Took that a bit too literally.

00:27:52 ◼   ► - It's like Hermes are the only,

00:27:54 ◼   ► They're the only company allowed to make regular straps on a frequent basis.

00:28:00 ◼   ► I mean it sounds like a joke but it's not.

00:28:03 ◼   ► Which is like, this is not a real laugh, it's a sad laugh.

00:28:08 ◼   ► It's very true, unfortunately.

00:28:10 ◼   ► Yes.

00:28:11 ◼   ► My favourite, one of my favourite things that I feel like, I don't mention enough but I

00:28:17 ◼   ► really appreciate.

00:28:18 ◼   ► So in the UK, on the UK store and everything, they are called straps not bands.

00:28:24 ◼   ► Straps?

00:28:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Straps.

00:28:27 ◼   ► We call them watch straps, not watch bands.

00:28:29 ◼   ► Watch straps.

00:28:30 ◼   ► See to me a strap is like the one that I have on my shoes.

00:28:34 ◼   ► Like a velcro strap?

00:28:35 ◼   ► Yeah, but if you think about it, they're not dissimilar from each other, right?

00:28:39 ◼   ► Like on the website, like if you go to the UK website, it says straps, not bands.

00:28:45 ◼   ► And they're called watch straps, not watch bands.

00:28:47 ◼   ► And I just like that they did that because that does make more sense to us.

00:28:51 ◼   ► So I guess all this time I've been wrong and Oasis were a rock strap?

00:28:55 ◼   ► They were a rock strap, yeah.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Indie straps, you know.

00:29:01 ◼   ► We have loads of straps over here.

00:29:03 ◼   ► Okay, alright.

00:29:04 ◼   ► Well, this is good information to have.

00:29:07 ◼   ► Yep.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Google I/O has been announced.

00:29:14 ◼   ► It's going to be on May the 10th.

00:29:17 ◼   ► This is from Google broadcast in front of a limited live audience and is open to everyone

00:29:22 ◼   ► online.

00:29:25 ◼   ► Not dissimilar from the way they've done things in the last couple of years.

00:29:28 ◼   ► It's going to be at the Shoreline Amphitheatre again so that limited audience will be what

00:29:33 ◼   ► they can fit in the Shoreline Amphitheatre.

00:29:36 ◼   ► What they're saying here is similar to what they've done in the past is it doesn't then

00:29:40 ◼   ► go on to become a conference afterwards for the people that are attending or people that

00:29:46 ◼   ► that can attend.

00:29:47 ◼   ► And then from The Verge,

00:29:49 ◼   ► they say there are rumors that we'll get details

00:29:51 ◼   ► in the Pixel 7a and the long rumored Pixel Fold

00:29:54 ◼   ► during this keynote.

00:29:55 ◼   ► And it's possible we could hear more

00:29:57 ◼   ► about the company's upcoming tablet.

00:29:59 ◼   ► I mean, honestly, the fact that we heard about the tablet

00:30:02 ◼   ► at last at Google I/O,

00:30:03 ◼   ► I'm hoping we're gonna hear more about the tablet

00:30:06 ◼   ► because they still have yet to release that product,

00:30:08 ◼   ► which I continue to be interested in, right?

00:30:11 ◼   ► Because it's the tablet that you can put into the dock.

00:30:13 ◼   ► We spoke about it before.

00:30:14 ◼   ► - We love that tablet conceptually.

00:30:16 ◼   ► The big stands for the tablet here are connected.

00:30:18 ◼   ► You know, they are pixel stands over here.

00:30:21 ◼   ► The reason I bring all this up is like, obviously WWDC,

00:30:24 ◼   ► I feel like the announcement is imminent,

00:30:27 ◼   ► probably within the next week, right?

00:30:30 ◼   ► - It has to be, I think.

00:30:31 ◼   ► - Historically, except for that one year

00:30:34 ◼   ► that we don't talk about,

00:30:36 ◼   ► Apple make an announcement of WWDC's date

00:30:39 ◼   ► about three months in advance.

00:30:41 ◼   ► It's usually in March if they're gonna do it in June.

00:30:43 ◼   ► I was thinking it might have been this week, but I expect it will be this week or next week.

00:30:48 ◼   ► And I just wanted to take a temperature test for you, as we are here today. What do you think WWDC will be this year?

00:30:59 ◼   ► What I think it will be. I think you're going to expand on last year's concept.

00:31:07 ◼   ► I think if the headset, I think the wildcard this year is,

00:31:12 ◼   ► if, and it sure sounds like that,

00:31:16 ◼   ► if they're gonna use WWDC as a launch event for the headset,

00:31:21 ◼   ► as an introduction, official introduction for the headset,

00:31:24 ◼   ► I think we should look forward to something different

00:31:29 ◼   ► from last year, which is demo areas.

00:31:32 ◼   ► My only concern is, now a headset is something

00:31:37 ◼   ► that literally you got to put it on your face, on your head. So are they going to let, I

00:31:44 ◼   ► don't know, 2000 developers, so let's say 2000 people are there instead of 1000. Are

00:31:49 ◼   ► they going to let 2000 people try out headsets? No. Right?

00:31:55 ◼   ► So just as a quick note, Apple announced the, announced WWDC in April last year, but nevertheless

00:32:01 ◼   ► I'm still expecting within the next couple of weeks.

00:32:05 ◼   ► So I think there will be some kinds of hands-on area for the headset,

00:32:12 ◼   ► but either it's going to be staggered throughout the week,

00:32:15 ◼   ► because maybe they're going to have, I don't know, let's say that they have 50 headsets on campus, right?

00:32:22 ◼   ► Obviously you need to make sure that you're going to sanitize the headset and wipe it down and clean it before somebody else can try it.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Because even just, even before COVID,

00:32:34 ◼   ► before the current times,

00:32:36 ◼   ► it was really pretty gross to try somebody else's headset.

00:32:41 ◼   ► - So this is interesting.

00:32:42 ◼   ► I actually do not think they will do what you're suggesting.

00:32:45 ◼   ► - Oh, you don't think there will be a hands-on area?

00:32:47 ◼   ► A demo area?

00:32:48 ◼   ► - No, I think there will be a hands-on demo area.

00:32:50 ◼   ► - Just for the press, maybe?

00:32:51 ◼   ► - Just for, but here's my, what I, so to kind of echo you,

00:32:56 ◼   ► I'm in agreement with you.

00:32:57 ◼   ► I think it will be basically what last year was

00:32:59 ◼   ► of two changes, they might open things up a little bit more,

00:33:03 ◼   ► like to have maybe more stuff going on,

00:33:06 ◼   ► but also giving people more than a couple of weeks notice.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Right, which is where we had last time of like,

00:33:12 ◼   ► they opened things up a couple of weeks before they made,

00:33:15 ◼   ► right, they said like, "Oh, there'll be a limited thing."

00:33:18 ◼   ► And then a few weeks before they'll be at BC,

00:33:20 ◼   ► then lots more developers were asked to come

00:33:22 ◼   ► and press for us to come and the situation changed.

00:33:24 ◼   ► - Or maybe last year they did the thing

00:33:28 ◼   ► where they tested the campus and they showed off

00:33:31 ◼   ► the developer center, maybe they're just gonna be like,

00:33:33 ◼   ► you know what, we're just gonna go back to normal, whatever.

00:33:37 ◼   ► - No, they're not gonna do that.

00:33:39 ◼   ► I feel completely confident that Apple

00:33:42 ◼   ► will never return to 2019 to WWDC.

00:33:45 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:33:46 ◼   ► - But let me give you a couple of reasons why, right?

00:33:49 ◼   ► Cost, there is like money, but also people's time.

00:33:55 ◼   ► The presentations are better now.

00:33:58 ◼   ► They just are.

00:33:58 ◼   ► And more people can do them.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Not everyone's comfortable to stand in front of the stage.

00:34:02 ◼   ► But anyone inside of a team is able to talk to a camera

00:34:05 ◼   ► more easily.

00:34:06 ◼   ► So the presentations are better.

00:34:08 ◼   ► They don't have to fit to a schedule.

00:34:09 ◼   ► They can be short.

00:34:09 ◼   ► They can be long.

00:34:11 ◼   ► And Apple, I think, are very aware of how much nicer

00:34:14 ◼   ► it is to say how many people attend WWDC virtually.

00:34:18 ◼   ► I really don't think that that whole live thing's

00:34:22 ◼   ► going to come back.

00:34:22 ◼   ► That's just my feeling.

00:34:23 ◼   ► just

00:34:41 ◼   ► a cleaner way of doing things now.

00:34:43 ◼   ► But nevertheless, what I wanted to mention about the headset,

00:34:46 ◼   ► the way I reckon it will go is,

00:34:49 ◼   ► you will be able to,

00:34:50 ◼   ► all press will be able to look at one, right?

00:34:53 ◼   ► Hold it.

00:34:54 ◼   ► But I think you won't be able to put it on.

00:34:57 ◼   ► I think that they will be constrained briefing type things

00:35:02 ◼   ► where Apple can control the experience.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And I expect that developers will get to look at them

00:35:11 ◼   ► in a case, and that's it.

00:35:13 ◼   ► - First iPhone style, just look at it in a glass case.

00:35:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, and also similarly, there will be some developers

00:35:21 ◼   ► who will be invited to a thing,

00:35:24 ◼   ► and then maybe there'll be like an open thing

00:35:26 ◼   ► that you can apply for, maybe like a small amount of people

00:35:28 ◼   ► can get to go and try it on,

00:35:29 ◼   ► like I don't imagine them having like,

00:35:32 ◼   ► here's 20 Apple headsets and you just stand in a line

00:35:35 ◼   ► and get to try it, like I don't imagine that being the thing

00:35:40 ◼   ► I would love to be proven wrong there because I just think it would be super important to

00:35:43 ◼   ► let people try it but it's like how ready is it really going to be right to actually

00:35:48 ◼   ► use if it's not coming out until September or December right like I think the answer

00:35:54 ◼   ► is not that ready like I think good for a guided thing right but anyway but yeah I'm

00:36:02 ◼   ► intrigued to see what WWDC is going to be like this year me too

00:36:06 ◼   ► I mean I'm hopefully going.

00:36:10 ◼   ► No, you should not say it.

00:36:12 ◼   ► Hopefully actually doing it.

00:36:13 ◼   ► I'm hopefully going to this time around.

00:36:16 ◼   ► But my difference this year to last year is once they announce the dates, I will be booking

00:36:22 ◼   ► travel, which I didn't do last time.

00:36:24 ◼   ► Yep.

00:36:25 ◼   ► So that's going to be helpful at least.

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00:37:54 ◼   ► So, talking about that headset, I want to get a sense from you about the current state

00:38:05 ◼   ► of consumer VR headsets because you have all of them?

00:38:10 ◼   ► Well, so this topic is perfect topic with perfect timing from you.

00:38:16 ◼   ► Like when you texted me this morning, I was like, "This is perfect."

00:38:19 ◼   ► Because one of the things that have been on my mind for the past two weeks has been I

00:38:26 ◼   ► need to be better prepared, like I need to research the state of VR.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Because like one of the things we discussed is sort of my change in opinion regarding

00:38:40 ◼   ► the headset.

00:38:42 ◼   ► That has been also due to just how my personal life and schedule has evolved over the past

00:38:49 ◼   ► few months.

00:38:50 ◼   ► I now have plenty of time for me at home every week, like every weekday when Silvia is at

00:38:58 ◼   ► work and I just sit here by myself with my dogs.

00:39:03 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Huh, that's interesting."

00:39:05 ◼   ► it means like, you know, I now get, if I were to use headsets, I wouldn't feel so bad.

00:39:14 ◼   ► So I've been looking into this and I decided, well, I knew that I pre-ordered the PSVR2

00:39:21 ◼   ► in November, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna get the PSVR2 in late February.

00:39:27 ◼   ► I decided, you know, before the Apple One comes, I want to know what I'm talking about,

00:39:32 ◼   ► and if you know me, you know this is how I operate.

00:39:34 ◼   ► I want to know what I'm talking about in terms of like how does the competition stack up

00:39:38 ◼   ► when the Apple headset comes and I will have opinions.

00:39:41 ◼   ► I want those opinions to be also informed by what's the current state of VR so far.

00:39:46 ◼   ► So in addition to the PSVR 2, I got a Quest 2.

00:39:51 ◼   ► That's not the expensive Quest Pro one.

00:39:53 ◼   ► I got the Quest 2.

00:39:55 ◼   ► I got a really good deal and it's relatively cheap compared to the PSVR 2.

00:40:03 ◼   ► So I've been actually testing both of them.

00:40:07 ◼   ► Used the PSVR 2 a ton last weekend.

00:40:10 ◼   ► We actually did like, it kind of felt like an open house day.

00:40:14 ◼   ► I got a bunch of people over just to try PSVR.

00:40:18 ◼   ► And so the new one for the PlayStation 5.

00:40:21 ◼   ► And so we spent like an entire afternoon going into the evening as well.

00:40:25 ◼   ► In fact, we ended up hosting like a semi-informal dinner because we just went over playing video

00:40:32 ◼   ► games and so we use that and then I want to be using on my own the quest 2 and I

00:40:39 ◼   ► have thoughts you know having used both of them and you sort of you had

00:40:47 ◼   ► questions for me which you organized in sections I think maybe you wanted to

00:40:52 ◼   ► start from the hardware yeah yeah so yeah with what you've experienced I

00:40:58 ◼   ► I think they are actually two quite different pieces of equipment.

00:41:03 ◼   ► The Quest 2 is an all in one, right?

00:41:08 ◼   ► And I think they are trying their best to make it budget where they can.

00:41:14 ◼   ► The PSVR 2 is not all in one, right? Like it attaches to the PlayStation 5.

00:41:19 ◼   ► And I think Sony have tried to go more luxurious and high end and it's expensive,

00:41:26 ◼   ► especially considering it doesn't do the processing.

00:41:29 ◼   ► So having used both of these,

00:41:32 ◼   ► do you have a better sense

00:41:34 ◼   ► for what you think Apple should be doing

00:41:36 ◼   ► when it comes to comfort and weight and quality?

00:41:41 ◼   ► - I can tell you this.

00:41:43 ◼   ► Both of them are plastic.

00:41:45 ◼   ► Both of them are made of plastic.

00:41:46 ◼   ► You wouldn't tell that the PSVR is luxurious

00:41:49 ◼   ► based on the feeling of the material alone.

00:41:53 ◼   ► It's made of plastic.

00:41:54 ◼   ► The controllers are, of course, made of plastic.

00:41:55 ◼   ► You gotta keep it lightweight.

00:41:56 ◼   ► - Realistically, what else could you?

00:41:59 ◼   ► - Well, I don't know if Apple is exploring

00:42:02 ◼   ► actually using aluminum or titanium,

00:42:04 ◼   ► maybe like a very light metal instead of plastic.

00:42:08 ◼   ► I don't know if they're gonna do that,

00:42:09 ◼   ► but I do feel like Apple can maybe make something

00:42:13 ◼   ► that feels, when you're touching it, when you're using it,

00:42:17 ◼   ► something that feels a bit more premium.

00:42:18 ◼   ► Maybe cloth could be another option

00:42:20 ◼   ► instead of like the rubber that you have

00:42:23 ◼   ► all across these headsets.

00:42:25 ◼   ► And it's been rumored that Apple has been looking

00:42:27 ◼   ► into these materials, like maybe make the frame out of metal,

00:42:32 ◼   ► use glass, but glass is heavy, that's the problem.

00:42:35 ◼   ► Maybe use cloth instead of rubber.

00:42:37 ◼   ► So I definitely think that Apple could make something

00:42:41 ◼   ► that feels more premium.

00:42:43 ◼   ► But I think with these headsets, something that

00:42:46 ◼   ► is key to the experience is the comfort of it.

00:42:49 ◼   ► And I can tell you, without single shadow of doubt,

00:42:53 ◼   ► The PSVR2 is much more comfortable than the Quest 2.

00:42:56 ◼   ► And I think it's due to a couple of factors.

00:43:01 ◼   ► The PSVR2, the original one,

00:43:05 ◼   ► was already a breakthrough design

00:43:07 ◼   ► in terms of like how Sony were able to make

00:43:09 ◼   ► a relatively lightweight headset

00:43:11 ◼   ► that also felt very nicely balanced on your head.

00:43:15 ◼   ► And they only made that better with the PSVR2.

00:43:20 ◼   ► It's much better balanced on your head

00:43:23 ◼   ► than the Quest 2.

00:43:24 ◼   ► For the Quest 2, to make it more,

00:43:27 ◼   ► to make you feel like my forehead was not falling

00:43:30 ◼   ► in front of my chest, I had to buy one of those

00:43:33 ◼   ► third-party sort of headbands

00:43:36 ◼   ► with an integrated battery pack

00:43:39 ◼   ► so that it could balance the weight in the back of my head.

00:43:42 ◼   ► Because otherwise, the Quest 2 only has a strap.

00:43:45 ◼   ► See, I used the term strap.

00:43:47 ◼   ► - Appreciate that.

00:43:48 ◼   ► - It's got a strap that you just tie around your head.

00:43:51 ◼   ► And I felt like, yeah, I basically felt that my face was too heavy, my forehead was too heavy.

00:43:57 ◼   ► So they make an aftermarket headband?

00:44:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I got it from another company.

00:44:06 ◼   ► You've got, yeah, I'm just saying, I'm not saying, but I'm just saying they make one as well.

00:44:09 ◼   ► They make one, because they are aware.

00:44:11 ◼   ► It does a better job of balancing.

00:44:13 ◼   ► I think it's also like the MantaQuest Pro, that's what they base that band on.

00:44:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:44:20 ◼   ► But I can tell you that out of the box,

00:44:21 ◼   ► PSVR2 much more comfortable than the Quest 2.

00:44:24 ◼   ► Also, also because of how it fits for a person

00:44:29 ◼   ► who wears glasses, like I do.

00:44:32 ◼   ► Where whenever I put on the Quest 2

00:44:34 ◼   ► and when I remove the Quest 2,

00:44:36 ◼   ► the glasses get stuck when I remove the headset.

00:44:39 ◼   ► And so the glasses come off with the headset.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Hasn't happened once with the PSVR2.

00:44:46 ◼   ► It's much more optimized for people who wear eyeglasses,

00:44:51 ◼   ► which is something that I appreciated.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Feels more comfortable in the nose area,

00:44:58 ◼   ► like how it fits under your eyes and across the nose.

00:45:03 ◼   ► And I also felt like it had a better seal.

00:45:07 ◼   ► You know with these ad sets, if they don't fit perfectly,

00:45:12 ◼   ► you can always see a bit of the floor

00:45:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, that doesn't happen as much with the PSVR 2 for me,

00:45:20 ◼   ► for my face, as it happens with the Quest 2.

00:45:25 ◼   ► - Right.

00:45:26 ◼   ► - So overall, it felt better on my head, on my face,

00:45:30 ◼   ► on my nose, with the glasses,

00:45:32 ◼   ► it felt better than the Quest 2.

00:45:35 ◼   ► And the weight, of course, I mean,

00:45:36 ◼   ► it seems to me that it's like I didn't put them on a scale,

00:45:41 ◼   ► but it feels to me like the PSVR2 is lighter.

00:45:46 ◼   ► Well, it doesn't need a battery.

00:45:48 ◼   ► It doesn't need a battery.

00:45:49 ◼   ► That's the thing.

00:45:50 ◼   ► It doesn't have a battery.

00:45:51 ◼   ► And I also purchased an additional battery

00:45:54 ◼   ► to balance the thing on the back of my head.

00:45:57 ◼   ► So, you know, the Quest.

00:45:59 ◼   ► So I'm sure that also, you know,

00:46:02 ◼   ► doesn't play in favor of the Quest.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Now...

00:46:04 ◼   ► So with that in mind,

00:46:06 ◼   ► if we're comparing it to Apple,

00:46:08 ◼   ► The rumor that they are going to detach the battery from the headset.

00:46:12 ◼   ► Yes.

00:46:13 ◼   ► Good idea.

00:46:14 ◼   ► Do you think…

00:46:15 ◼   ► Good idea.

00:46:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:46:17 ◼   ► You see?

00:46:18 ◼   ► This is what…

00:46:19 ◼   ► I mean, I've been saying this the whole time, right?

00:46:20 ◼   ► Like, this is a good idea.

00:46:22 ◼   ► I think people that think it's a bad idea maybe have limited experience with these headsets.

00:46:27 ◼   ► Anything you can do to remove weight is good for longer-term periods.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Which is why I wanted to buy both of them, to actually have an informed opinion.

00:46:35 ◼   ► see the thing that everybody's freaking out about, oh but you have a cable. Let me tell

00:46:40 ◼   ► you, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. At least for me, it doesn't matter.

00:46:43 ◼   ► Oh, but you're using one with the cable, right? So the PSVR2 has a cable, runs to the PlayStation.

00:46:50 ◼   ► Has a cable. Now, I have a much bigger living room than I used to. Well, before I didn't

00:46:56 ◼   ► really have a living room. Now I have a proper living room. It's not a huge living room.

00:47:00 ◼   ► It's not like, oh my God, look at this guy in his crazy house. No, it's not that kind

00:47:03 ◼   ► It's spacious, but it's a living room.

00:47:07 ◼   ► We just set the little coffee table

00:47:11 ◼   ► that we have in front of the couch,

00:47:12 ◼   ► we set it to the side, made some room,

00:47:14 ◼   ► because we were like six people trying it.

00:47:17 ◼   ► Let me tell you, the cable hasn't been a problem once.

00:47:19 ◼   ► We had this cable going from the headset.

00:47:22 ◼   ► It's not like, oh, what if you trip over?

00:47:25 ◼   ► Like, no, it just doesn't happen.

00:47:27 ◼   ► It's a pretty long cable.

00:47:29 ◼   ► You just run it on the floor,

00:47:31 ◼   ► Connected to the front of the PS5, which is a great idea to put some USB-C ports on the front of it.

00:47:37 ◼   ► Not an issue. And I can tell you, it hasn't been an issue with the Quest 2 either.

00:47:42 ◼   ► I've been using it... So the thing about the Quest 2, which we'll get to later,

00:47:46 ◼   ► the Quest 2, you can use it standalone or...

00:47:49 ◼   ► And this is going to be a whole discussion in a couple of minutes.

00:47:52 ◼   ► Or you can use it with your computer, with a Mac or PC for two things.

00:47:59 ◼   ► well, VR gaming, obviously, on Windows, but also to work with VR, which I've been doing.

00:48:08 ◼   ► Now you can do this wirelessly. We're going to talk about this in a minute. We can do

00:48:11 ◼   ► this wirelessly, but there's going to be some latency. Or you can just run a cable, a link

00:48:17 ◼   ► cable, I think it's called, from the Quest 2 to your computer. It hasn't been an issue.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Again, I work at my desk, and instead of looking at my physical monitor, I want to be surrounded

00:48:28 ◼   ► by virtual monitors in VR, there's gonna be a cable that goes from my headset to my Mac or from

00:48:33 ◼   ► my headset to my PC and it's not, it's a non-issue. Now of course obviously, it goes without saying,

00:48:41 ◼   ► obviously life is always better without cables. Life is always better without those. But

00:48:47 ◼   ► it's not this huge, oh it's a non-starter of an issue. No, no.

00:48:54 ◼   ► The thing is, this isn't like the PlayStation VR 1, this isn't like the Oculus Rift, where

00:49:01 ◼   ► they had lots of cables, right? The one cable is manageable. When they were big and there

00:49:07 ◼   ► was like multiple cables, that was really hard.

00:49:09 ◼   ► Oh, I remember. Oh, I remember. Let me tell you, the most annoying thing with the PSVR

00:49:14 ◼   ► 2 hasn't been the cable, hasn't been, you know, the controllers. You know, the most

00:49:18 ◼   ► annoying thing has been, and maybe Sony can improve this in the future, it asks you to

00:49:26 ◼   ► re-scan your surroundings quite often. It was interrupting me a little more often than

00:49:33 ◼   ► I liked when I was like, "Hey, your environment changed." And no, it didn't really change.

00:49:40 ◼   ► But obviously, the great thing about this new generation of headsets is that you don't

00:49:45 ◼   ► have cameras pointing at you, like external cameras. I remember the first systems, like

00:49:52 ◼   ► the original PSVR, the original, what was it? The Rift. There was another one that like

00:49:59 ◼   ► the Vive. You had to put a bunch of cameras in your space pointing at you. No, these headsets,

00:50:06 ◼   ► they have integrated cameras. They can orient themselves because they have cameras looking

00:50:11 ◼   ► at their surroundings.

00:50:12 ◼   ► If you want to be super nerdy, it's called inside-out tracking.

00:50:15 ◼   ► Inside-out tracking, thank you for that.

00:50:18 ◼   ► So yeah, the cable, I was concerned with cable, hasn't been an issue and I agree.

00:50:24 ◼   ► If Apple is, well, we know they are, but they're looking into this, cable isn't not a problem

00:50:30 ◼   ► and I gotta tell you, putting an external battery in your pocket, if you have pockets,

00:50:36 ◼   ► or on a desk or on the sofa, if the sofa is behind you, good idea.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Because it means you're going to make the thing lighter and lighter is good.

00:50:45 ◼   ► And if they do it the way I want, like you could have multiple battery packs

00:50:49 ◼   ► and you could just switch between them if one gets lost to get low.

00:50:52 ◼   ► I have a whole stack of them. I have a whole rack of batteries.

00:50:56 ◼   ► Just duct tape them together.

00:50:57 ◼   ► The display quality.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Also in terms of the hardware, then maybe we can move on to the experience

00:51:03 ◼   ► and the controllers.

00:51:05 ◼   ► much better on PSVR2. It's awesome. The image quality on PSVR2, and I mean, look, you're looking at two OLED displays,

00:51:13 ◼   ► one per eye, and the resolution of

00:51:16 ◼   ► 2,000 per

00:51:19 ◼   ► 2040

00:51:21 ◼   ► pixels per eye. It looks fantastic. It's much,

00:51:26 ◼   ► much better than the Quest 2. Quest 2 isn't even OLED. Here you have these two beautiful displays, one in front of each eye,

00:51:35 ◼   ► It looks fantastic. You play Horizon, whatever it's called, the VR one.

00:51:40 ◼   ► - Call of the Mountain. - Yeah, Call of the Mountain.

00:51:42 ◼   ► It looks incredible. The colors are so vivid, so vibrant.

00:51:46 ◼   ► And obviously there's always, at least short term,

00:51:51 ◼   ► there's always going to be some pixelation going on,

00:51:55 ◼   ► but it's much, much more acceptable on the PSVR2 than it is on the Quest 2.

00:52:00 ◼   ► The Quest 2 can get kind of, you know, the image can get blurry on the Quest 2.

00:52:04 ◼   ► Yeah, so very curious, very curious to see what Apple does in terms of displays,

00:52:11 ◼   ► because Apple, they have, you know, got us used to pretty good displays in their devices.

00:52:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I want better, personally.

00:52:18 ◼   ► And of course the PSVR2 also has the foveated rendering,

00:52:22 ◼   ► which is, you know, another wild piece of tech that we can talk about that later.

00:52:28 ◼   ► So tell me what the experience has been like using them.

00:52:32 ◼   ► So obviously, PSVR 2, unfortunately, has the big downside of being incapable of being used as a PC headset.

00:52:40 ◼   ► Lots of modern VR headsets, they support multiple modes, like you can use it for games or you can plug it into a PC,

00:52:47 ◼   ► and you can use it as a virtual display for your computer.

00:52:51 ◼   ► PSVR 2 is only for PlayStation 5.

00:52:54 ◼   ► Now, I am very positive that Sony will eventually make this also compatible with PC and Mac VR,

00:53:04 ◼   ► but it's not right now.

00:53:05 ◼   ► It's a gaming-only affair at the moment.

00:53:09 ◼   ► The controllers.

00:53:11 ◼   ► Kind of similar, obviously, Sony learned a lot from Meta in this regard.

00:53:16 ◼   ► Very similarly shaped controllers.

00:53:19 ◼   ► I prefer the PSVR ones.

00:53:23 ◼   ► The circular part around them is bigger.

00:53:27 ◼   ► I think it fits my hands better than the Quest controllers.

00:53:30 ◼   ► And obviously the big draw for me of the PSVR2 controllers was the haptic feedback.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And it's not...

00:53:38 ◼   ► Obviously the haptic feedback in the controllers is awesome.

00:53:42 ◼   ► Haptic feedback in the headset is wild.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Like feeling that your head vibrates when you're doing something that involves movement,

00:53:53 ◼   ► playing Horizon and climbing a mountain and feeling the feedback on your hands and on your face.

00:54:00 ◼   ► That was one of those moments where I was like "Oh man, this is something that I never felt before."

00:54:06 ◼   ► I like how both the PSVR2 and the Quest can identify the position of the controllers in

00:54:14 ◼   ► in the physical space and show you in the VR space where they are.

00:54:21 ◼   ► It's like that location tracking for the controllers.

00:54:25 ◼   ► So like even if I'm in VR, I can see where the floor is and I can see where the controllers

00:54:31 ◼   ► are.

00:54:32 ◼   ► It's very nice.

00:54:33 ◼   ► That's something that obviously was not the case before and it's very cool.

00:54:39 ◼   ► A big… there were two moments for me when I was like, "Yeah, this is…" Well, three

00:54:46 ◼   ► moments. Not two, three moments. And we're going to get into this. Three moments that

00:54:51 ◼   ► were like, "Yeah, this is the future." First, eye tracking. PSVR 2 has this. It can

00:54:59 ◼   ► track the movement of your eyes. And I can tell you, we know that Apple is doing this.

00:55:05 ◼   ► It is incredible and it's one of those, oh yeah, this is the future moments.

00:55:12 ◼   ► You can select UI elements just by looking at them.

00:55:16 ◼   ► Yeah, that's cool, man.

00:55:17 ◼   ► That's really cool.

00:55:18 ◼   ► It's so cool.

00:55:19 ◼   ► And the first time you try, you're like, no, this can't be real.

00:55:23 ◼   ► And then you do it again and you switch back and forth.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Like imagine items in a list and you scroll through the list by actually just looking

00:55:33 ◼   ► at the list with your eyes.

00:55:34 ◼   ► It's like, yeah.

00:55:35 ◼   ► I just don't understand how that works.

00:55:37 ◼   ► I just don't know how you can get,

00:55:38 ◼   ► I mean, I know it does, right?

00:55:40 ◼   ► But to me, how you get precision from that,

00:55:42 ◼   ► like I have no idea, but that's some super cool stuff.

00:55:45 ◼   ► - It's incredible, like just selecting from two options,

00:55:48 ◼   ► left and right, or scrolling a list, like it totally works.

00:55:51 ◼   ► And it's like, yeah, in the future,

00:55:54 ◼   ► this is totally how I wanna select things.

00:55:57 ◼   ► And now you can use the controllers or you can,

00:55:59 ◼   ► you know, you can, but no, it's immediate, it's real time.

00:56:04 ◼   ► just move your eyes and the item, the selection changes. And so, Apple is doing this. Yeah,

00:56:12 ◼   ► it's I mean, like imagine scrolling widgets like this or lists or playing games with this

00:56:19 ◼   ► technology. Incredible. The second moment. It's kind of wonky right now. It's not fully

00:56:24 ◼   ► optimized. It's an optional sort of beta that you can enable on the Quest 2, hand tracking,

00:56:33 ◼   ► gestures. This is optional, but it's also one of those moments where like, yeah, like

00:56:39 ◼   ► I can use this without controllers.

00:56:42 ◼   ► Not great, but when it works, it's awesome, right?

00:56:45 ◼   ► It's not great, but when it works, it's totally awesome. You're going to see a digital representation

00:56:50 ◼   ► of your hands. And I mentioned it's kind of janky right now because there's a bit of a

00:56:53 ◼   ► delay. It's not as immediate as having the controllers, but when it works, you're like,

00:57:01 ◼   ► Yeah, like I can scroll items with a gesture.

00:57:05 ◼   ► I can pinch to select.

00:57:06 ◼   ► I can pinch to open.

00:57:08 ◼   ► It's something that like if Apple can make

00:57:13 ◼   ► a polished version of this,

00:57:15 ◼   ► then maybe it's based on tons of data that they have.

00:57:19 ◼   ► Or I don't know, but if Apple can apply their knowledge

00:57:22 ◼   ► and all the time they've been working on this product

00:57:26 ◼   ► and make a polished version of eye tracking,

00:57:29 ◼   ► but mostly hand tracking.

00:57:31 ◼   ► Man, that's, it totally,

00:57:33 ◼   ► like there was a moment when I totally felt

00:57:34 ◼   ► like minority repulsed style,

00:57:36 ◼   ► like I was moving my hands to select things.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Incredible.

00:57:41 ◼   ► And the third moment was when I tried

00:57:44 ◼   ► to use my computer in VR.

00:57:47 ◼   ► Now this is only possible with the Quest 2.

00:57:49 ◼   ► PSVR, like I mentioned, is only for gaming,

00:57:52 ◼   ► for the PlayStation 5.

00:57:53 ◼   ► There's a couple of ways to do this.

00:57:56 ◼   ► The Quest 2 supports this natively on Mac and PC with a system called AirLink.

00:58:02 ◼   ► And AirLink can be used wirelessly or with a cable.

00:58:05 ◼   ► Obviously, even though I have a Wi-Fi 6 network at home, I guessed and doing some googling

00:58:12 ◼   ► confirmed my suspicion that there's going to be latency issues and all of that.

00:58:17 ◼   ► So I said, "Okay, I'm just going to run.

00:58:19 ◼   ► I'm just going to use the cable."

00:58:20 ◼   ► It's an awful lot of data to be transported.

00:58:23 ◼   ► It's a lot of data.

00:58:24 ◼   ► So you can use the AirLink system made by Meta, or, and this is actually the one I prefer,

00:58:30 ◼   ► there's an app, there's a piece of software for Mac and PC called Immersed, Immersed VR.

00:58:36 ◼   ► And this is much more polished and much more intuitive, because Immersed, what it basically

00:58:42 ◼   ► does is it's gonna... imagine, think of it this way, it's like a VNC client for your

00:58:50 ◼   ► computer but in VR. And you can turn your computer, so your desktop, your apps, your

00:58:59 ◼   ► windows, but you can turn that into a virtual environment. And I was very skeptical of this,

00:59:06 ◼   ► like I was on the record as being a person who said, "Yeah, this is ridiculous. Why

00:59:11 ◼   ► would you want to do this?" And now that I did this, and I actually worked, like I

00:59:16 ◼   ► I did some regular work, like Max Stories and Club Max Stories work in VR.

00:59:23 ◼   ► I'm sold, man.

00:59:25 ◼   ► The idea of...

00:59:28 ◼   ► I don't have space for three monitors in my office, but in the right conditions, if I'm

00:59:35 ◼   ► alone and I can always switch to a mixed reality environment to check on my dogs or something,

00:59:44 ◼   ► or drink a glass of water, whatever.

00:59:48 ◼   ► So if I have an easy way out, if I want to, the benefit of, well, now you are still sitting

00:59:56 ◼   ► at your desk, but you are maybe at the beach, because it's one of the things you can do,

01:00:03 ◼   ► and you have a giant monitor in front of you, and then three more monitors to the side with

01:00:11 ◼   ► apps and you can just, you know, now suddenly you have the space because the space is not

01:00:18 ◼   ► physical, the space is virtual. And that was truly like a big moment for me. I was like,

01:00:25 ◼   ► this is so nice, even though the Quest 2 doesn't have the best resolution, right? And it's

01:00:31 ◼   ► not the most comfortable headset I have. But this idea of, it's my computer, it's all my

01:00:39 ◼   ► stuff, but now I have the space for more monitors in front of me, including one, and you can

01:00:45 ◼   ► play with different layouts.

01:00:47 ◼   ► You can like drag one and make it curved and make it like sit slightly above your face,

01:00:53 ◼   ► and so like you have a giant curved display above you and two off to the side.

01:00:59 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, this is so cool because normally I don't have the space.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Like if I did this in my physical office, Silvia would kill me.

01:01:07 ◼   ► Like if she came back home and she found like three monitors, including a giant curved one.

01:01:11 ◼   ► Like a stock trader.

01:01:13 ◼   ► You know, like a stock trader.

01:01:16 ◼   ► And you can do that.

01:01:18 ◼   ► And another thing that truly surprised me and sort of made me a believer for whatever

01:01:25 ◼   ► Apple must be working on was typing on a virtual keyboard with controllers.

01:01:36 ◼   ► my hands, because you can also do this with your hands. But actually the idea of a virtual

01:01:42 ◼   ► keyboard, like a software keyboard, is not so bad. Because like with the Quest controllers

01:01:47 ◼   ► you can just... it's a bit silly initially, but I got pretty fast after a couple of hours

01:01:55 ◼   ► and you have this... so you can place this virtual keyboard in front of you like floating

01:02:00 ◼   ► in space and then you just touch the keys with your controller and you feel the key

01:02:07 ◼   ► because of the vibration in the controller. It's like I was actually typing pretty fast

01:02:12 ◼   ► by the end of my session.

01:02:13 ◼   ► Let me tell you something super cool that I've tried, that Meta have done, and I hope

01:02:18 ◼   ► Apple do this, where you have your... they have like mapped a selection of keyboards,

01:02:25 ◼   ► one of them is the Magic Keyboard. You have an actual physical Magic Keyboard in front

01:02:29 ◼   ► you and you're in a virtual space but it recognizes as a magic keyboard and you

01:02:36 ◼   ► put your real fingers on your real keyboard and it does the pass-through of

01:02:40 ◼   ► just your fingers and you type on your physical keyboard and you can see your

01:02:47 ◼   ► fingers on a digital keyboard. It's very cool and I hope that they do

01:02:52 ◼   ► something like that too. Yeah or something you can do with immersed which

01:02:57 ◼   ► which is also very cool, is you can exclude an area in front of you,

01:03:02 ◼   ► like a physical space in front of you.

01:03:04 ◼   ► Yeah, they've done this too.

01:03:05 ◼   ► You can exclude it with the controllers.

01:03:07 ◼   ► You can say, "No, exclude this from VR.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Let me see my real keyboard, my physical keyboard in VR."

01:03:14 ◼   ► So you literally draw an area around your keyboard,

01:03:17 ◼   ► and you can say, "This needs to pass through to VR."

01:03:21 ◼   ► And so you can see your keyboard like that.

01:03:25 ◼   ► After doing all of this, so here's the takeaway.

01:03:28 ◼   ► If Apple can make a more premium feeling version of this, a more comfortable version of this,

01:03:37 ◼   ► that lets you use Mac OS, because at this point I kind of lost hope for iPad OS anyway,

01:03:42 ◼   ► that lets you use Mac OS with this, and maybe, you know, or you can use it standalone, maybe

01:03:50 ◼   ► you can switch between environments,

01:03:52 ◼   ► and it's got eye tracking, hand tracking, I'm sold.

01:03:55 ◼   ► At this point, I'm a believer.

01:03:58 ◼   ► Having tried two headsets in limited fashion with the,

01:04:02 ◼   ► you know, it's not like I love the Quest OS,

01:04:07 ◼   ► but if Apple can make an Apple version of it

01:04:09 ◼   ► with all the apps I like, and then the developers I like

01:04:12 ◼   ► are gonna make apps for it, man, I'm in.

01:04:17 ◼   ► - Welcome to the dark side Federico Vessigio.

01:04:20 ◼   ► - What is the dark side?

01:04:21 ◼   ► - Whether you're a believer man.

01:04:24 ◼   ► I was hoping that you would get to this point

01:04:26 ◼   ► like before the headset came out

01:04:28 ◼   ► 'cause I know that like we've spoken on this show a bunch

01:04:30 ◼   ► and you've been really skeptical of it.

01:04:32 ◼   ► And I'm really happy that you've had these experiences

01:04:36 ◼   ► 'cause I've been dipping my toe into some of this stuff

01:04:39 ◼   ► as well like over the last few months

01:04:41 ◼   ► and longer actually.

01:04:44 ◼   ► And I have also been encouraged by what I've seen companies like Meta do, right?

01:04:50 ◼   ► Like some of their Quest stuff, their Horizon work rooms type stuff.

01:04:55 ◼   ► And I think that there is something here, but I feel like a lot of it at the moment feels very,

01:05:01 ◼   ► especially when it comes to working stuff, still feels very proof of concept.

01:05:05 ◼   ► And you can feel it, you can experience it, be like, this is good, but it needs more.

01:05:11 ◼   ► Like it needs more polish, needs more attention.

01:05:13 ◼   ► - And it's polished, it does, yes.

01:05:14 ◼   ► - Our hope is that Apple will bring that

01:05:16 ◼   ► because that's what we have experienced them do

01:05:18 ◼   ► a bunch of times.

01:05:19 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:05:20 ◼   ► - So like one of the things that I've been talking about

01:05:22 ◼   ► is like my hope is that they can come out

01:05:25 ◼   ► and show off a thing that has an, not exact,

01:05:29 ◼   ► but close to like original iPhone-like presentation.

01:05:33 ◼   ► And my feeling on that is like what I'm trying to explain

01:05:36 ◼   ► and what I'm trying to get at is like

01:05:37 ◼   ► what the original iPhone presentation did

01:05:40 ◼   ► was like, took something that we knew and had experienced.

01:05:43 ◼   ► - There are a bunch of phones already.

01:05:45 ◼   ► - Pushed it to a level where you're like,

01:05:47 ◼   ► oh, that looks cool and I get it.

01:05:50 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:05:51 ◼   ► - That's what I'm hoping that they're able to show

01:05:55 ◼   ► when they eventually show this thing off.

01:05:59 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, I agree, I agree.

01:06:01 ◼   ► If they can make the Apple breakthrough polished,

01:06:06 ◼   ► more premium version of this with all the apps we love

01:06:10 ◼   ► And the third-party developers we love with the kind of, let's face it, Apple design still better than anything else.

01:06:17 ◼   ► Like the UI, the polish, like the Apple-flavored version of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I cannot wait.

01:06:25 ◼   ► I'm really appreciative on this. Thank you for bringing your experiences.

01:06:28 ◼   ► I, ideally, I wish it was, I wish this experiment was not going to be this expensive.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:38 ◼   ► But hey, at least now I am-

01:06:40 ◼   ► Robert, now you're prepared, right?

01:06:41 ◼   ► I am prepared and more knowledgeable than before.

01:06:44 ◼   ► I am a thousand euros more knowledgeable than before.

01:06:46 ◼   ► Well, now you're a thousand euros into being prepared to spend three thousand euros.

01:06:52 ◼   ► Yes.

01:06:53 ◼   ► Later on this year.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Yes.

01:06:55 ◼   ► Finally.

01:06:56 ◼   ► You know, knowledge has a price sometimes and this was the price to pay.

01:07:00 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

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01:08:59 ◼   ► So a couple of weeks ago, Jason Snow was on vacation

01:09:03 ◼   ► and I had a friend of the show

01:09:05 ◼   ► and noted email receiver Casey Liss on upgrade.

01:09:09 ◼   ► And I wanted to play a new game with Casey

01:09:14 ◼   ► that I don't have a good name for,

01:09:16 ◼   ► but I called it the Vibe Check Word Association.

01:09:19 ◼   ► - Yes, love it.

01:09:20 ◼   ► - Thinking of today's episode of the show,

01:09:23 ◼   ► we are in a period of time where we're needing to come up

01:09:27 ◼   ► with more topics of our own because there are no news.

01:09:31 ◼   ► Everybody, there's no news.

01:09:32 ◼   ► - There's a yellow iPhone, that was news.

01:09:34 ◼   ► - To be fair, there was a new iPhone this week, but--

01:09:37 ◼   ► - When you say it like that.

01:09:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, there was a new iPhone this week.

01:09:40 ◼   ► But do you want us to talk about yellow for an hour?

01:09:42 ◼   ► I mean, we could go back to it if you want,

01:09:43 ◼   ► but I'm not going to.

01:09:45 ◼   ► So I wanted to do the Vibe Check word association with you.

01:09:48 ◼   ► And the reason I wanted to do this is I think listeners of this show,

01:09:51 ◼   ► keen listeners of the extended Max Stories universe,

01:09:55 ◼   ► is aware of the fact that you are going through some kind of quest right now

01:09:59 ◼   ► to some kind of like vision experience.

01:10:03 ◼   ► And so I wanted to try and use this as a time

01:10:06 ◼   ► to get your vibe check word association and selection of things.

01:10:10 ◼   ► So I'm going to reuse the list I used of Casey Excluded.

01:10:12 ◼   ► It's pretty representative.

01:10:14 ◼   ► So what I want you to do is clear your mind.

01:10:17 ◼   ► - Okay. - All right?

01:10:18 ◼   ► You just clear your mind for me now.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Don't think about anything.

01:10:20 ◼   ► Just get that mind nice and clear.

01:10:23 ◼   ► I'm going to give you a word or a very short sentence,

01:10:27 ◼   ► you know, like maybe a product name or something like that.

01:10:30 ◼   ► And then I want you to tell me the first word

01:10:33 ◼   ► that jumps to mind, and then maybe we'll go back

01:10:36 ◼   ► and we'll dig into a couple of them.

01:10:38 ◼   ► - Okay. - All right?

01:10:40 ◼   ► - All right. - Is your mind clear?

01:10:42 ◼   ► - I think so, yeah.

01:10:46 ◼   ► Headset.

01:10:47 ◼   ► - Exciting.

01:10:48 ◼   ► - WWDC 2023.

01:10:51 ◼   ► - I wanna go back.

01:10:53 ◼   ► - Apple Watch Ultra.

01:10:56 ◼   ► - Surprising.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - Mac Pro.

01:11:00 ◼   ► - I don't care.

01:11:01 ◼   ► - You know, I thought you were gonna say boring,

01:11:04 ◼   ► but that works too.

01:11:05 ◼   ► All right, we need to re-clear the mind

01:11:07 ◼   ► 'cause we're talking and re-clear the mind.

01:11:08 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:11:09 ◼   ► - 15 inch MacBook Air.

01:11:11 ◼   ► - Maybe.

01:11:12 ◼   ► - Periscope lens.

01:11:15 ◼   ► I'll take it.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Tim Cook.

01:11:17 ◼   ► Distant.

01:11:21 ◼   ► App Store.

01:11:24 ◼   ► Used to be better.

01:11:27 ◼   ► iPad.

01:11:28 ◼   ► Wait, forget it.

01:11:31 ◼   ► Clear your mind.

01:11:32 ◼   ► Different one.

01:11:32 ◼   ► Apple.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Changing.

01:11:36 ◼   ► iPad Pro.

01:11:38 ◼   ► Wasted potential.

01:11:42 ◼   ► Okay.

01:11:43 ◼   ► Let me take a look at my list here.

01:11:44 ◼   ► Tim Cook, you say distant.

01:11:49 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:11:50 ◼   ► - Tell me about that.

01:11:51 ◼   ► - I feel like, and this is just my impression,

01:11:56 ◼   ► I feel like because we haven't seen him

01:12:00 ◼   ► do a lot of product introductions lately

01:12:06 ◼   ► in the recent years.

01:12:07 ◼   ► I mean, look, it's great that we've seen

01:12:12 ◼   ► more Apple executives on stage and different faces

01:12:14 ◼   ► and that's great.

01:12:16 ◼   ► Just feels like, I just get the vibe lately,

01:12:19 ◼   ► and maybe this is just me,

01:12:20 ◼   ► but hey, this is the point of this topic.

01:12:23 ◼   ► I just feel like it's getting more distant

01:12:27 ◼   ► from the product aspect of Apple,

01:12:31 ◼   ► and just more as the CEO type

01:12:33 ◼   ► who shows off on the earnings calls

01:12:35 ◼   ► and talks about like politics and the economics

01:12:38 ◼   ► and the financials.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Like, I just, it feels distant from a product perspective.

01:12:43 ◼   ► And maybe this is just my feel of him,

01:12:47 ◼   ► but that's what came to mind.

01:12:49 ◼   ► - Well, I think there's a few things in this.

01:12:50 ◼   ► I think one, he is not by any stretch,

01:12:53 ◼   ► the best person to do product introductions at Apple.

01:12:56 ◼   ► Like they have many people

01:12:57 ◼   ► that are vastly better at it, right?

01:12:59 ◼   ► And so I think it's good that they tried for a while,

01:13:03 ◼   ► I think to like Tim Cook needs to do what Steve Jobs did.

01:13:06 ◼   ► And it's just not his thing.

01:13:09 ◼   ► I think I mentioned this

01:13:10 ◼   ► because Casey had a somewhat similar take of like the idea of him not being the same.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Like, the idea of CEOs doing the product introductions is just because Steve Jobs did them.

01:13:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I know. I know.

01:13:24 ◼   ► But what I will say is, I would place a wager that he will be the lead of the headset part.

01:13:34 ◼   ► Interesting, okay, we'll see.

01:13:36 ◼   ► Because he was with the Apple Watch too, if I remember right.

01:13:40 ◼   ► You think it's going to do it again?

01:13:41 ◼   ► Yes, because there's two reasons for this.

01:13:43 ◼   ► One, AR has been his thing.

01:13:45 ◼   ► He's been talking about AR forever.

01:13:47 ◼   ► Two, like the Apple Watch,

01:13:51 ◼   ► he's looking for his legacy in product.

01:13:56 ◼   ► I hope you're right.

01:13:58 ◼   ► Right, now Tim Cook's legacy is much bigger.

01:14:01 ◼   ► But I think the thing that he is yet to,

01:14:05 ◼   ► in the eyes of the world, do is a Mac or an iPhone,

01:14:10 ◼   ► or an iPad. The Apple Watch is great but it is not viewed widely as like one of the world

01:14:17 ◼   ► changing products. Although I would argue that it has slowly done it but those other

01:14:24 ◼   ► three products like bang the world's different now right now that they exist. With the iPad

01:14:28 ◼   ► the lesser of those but I you know I my hope is that or that my feeling is that Tim Cook

01:14:35 ◼   ► hopes that he will come on stage, talk about the headset and how the world's different.

01:14:42 ◼   ► So I know what you mean though about Distant, we don't see him the same way. He is different,

01:14:48 ◼   ► he's very different, he's very reserved as an individual, right? So, um, what's surprising

01:14:54 ◼   ► to you about the Apple Watch Ultra?

01:14:56 ◼   ► That I'm liking it more than I thought and that I resisted this temptation for months

01:15:01 ◼   ► and I actually love this thing.

01:15:04 ◼   ► And not just because it's new,

01:15:07 ◼   ► because now that I have it on my wrist,

01:15:09 ◼   ► I mean sure it looks new, but it's still an Apple Watch.

01:15:12 ◼   ► But it's the battery life and the display,

01:15:15 ◼   ► it's brighter, the action button.

01:15:18 ◼   ► I am liking it, even though I'm not into extreme sports

01:15:21 ◼   ► and adventures, I am liking it more than I thought I would,

01:15:25 ◼   ► and so that's why it's surprising to me.

01:15:28 ◼   ► - That's cool.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Obviously WWDC wanna go back.

01:15:31 ◼   ► I mean, we all want to go back, right?

01:15:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I was moving last year, we were buying a house,

01:15:35 ◼   ► I didn't want to leave Sylvia and the dogs, you know, with the giant mess of boxes.

01:15:39 ◼   ► I mean, you know, it wasn't a good time for me.

01:15:41 ◼   ► It is wild, like, thinking about it, you know, it's 2023.

01:15:45 ◼   ► Neither of us have had that, like, return yet, you know,

01:15:49 ◼   ► that so many other people have done.

01:15:52 ◼   ► -Four years. -Yeah, it is wild.

01:15:59 ◼   ► What an app store used to be better.

01:16:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

01:16:03 ◼   ► It's just, the front page is now dominated by either ads or content for like this free to play games.

01:16:15 ◼   ► It's no longer have that sort of feel of like a high quality curated magazines about apps,

01:16:26 ◼   ► which is kind of like what I think Apple wanted to go for years ago. And somewhere along this

01:16:34 ◼   ► evolution of these apps they decided to kind of pivot toward games and Apple arcades and all of

01:16:39 ◼   ► that. So there's that. Like the today page, I never never open the today page. And I tend to gravitate,

01:16:47 ◼   ► like I don't do mobile gaming honestly, like I tried, I'm just not into mobile games.

01:16:53 ◼   ► All of these mobile games eventually they all kind of blend together for me, like, you know, this,

01:16:58 ◼   ► like, running games or platformers, like, I've seen dozens of those games and just I prefer

01:17:04 ◼   ► other experiences, especially because of the Nintendo Switch and the Steam Deck.

01:17:07 ◼   ► And the apps page is just always the same content, there's very little refresh

01:17:17 ◼   ► going on in terms of like featured apps and sections and yeah it just it used to be better

01:17:23 ◼   ► because I feel like years ago Apple wanted to go in a different direction with it like actually

01:17:28 ◼   ► teach people about apps and not just Shazam and YouTube and TikTok look we get it those apps are

01:17:34 ◼   ► popular so yeah it's I mean it's a marketplace about free apps and free games and I preferred

01:17:45 ◼   ► it when it was more about like "oh let us tell you about this, you know, seven cool

01:17:49 ◼   ► weather apps" and you can still find those sections but they're usually just lists

01:17:55 ◼   ► you know just barely put together and they haven't been updated in years so

01:18:01 ◼   ► yeah it's it's kind of boring now yeah.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Do you feel like there's anything in there which is

01:18:08 ◼   ► along the lines of the kind of monopoly side like does that change your opinion

01:18:14 ◼   ► towards the App Store.

01:18:15 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, excellent point.

01:18:17 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:18:18 ◼   ► I mean, when you don't have any competition,

01:18:20 ◼   ► you're not driven to make it better

01:18:24 ◼   ► and to try different directions.

01:18:25 ◼   ► If it's not broke, don't fix it.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Like, you know, it's just what it is.

01:18:32 ◼   ► And I think it's gonna be lovely

01:18:34 ◼   ► to see some competition from,

01:18:37 ◼   ► whether it's gonna be Steam

01:18:39 ◼   ► or some version of the Play Store

01:18:42 ◼   ► or the Epic Game Store or the Microsoft Store or Game Pass,

01:18:46 ◼   ► like it's gonna be great to see competition.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Competition is good.

01:18:50 ◼   ► And I think Apple has sort of been in this mood of like,

01:18:53 ◼   ► yeah, we're getting billions of downloads

01:18:55 ◼   ► and making tons of money.

01:18:56 ◼   ► Why do we need to change it?

01:18:58 ◼   ► Competition is gonna be great on that front.

01:19:00 ◼   ► - And then Apple is changing?

01:19:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, they are changing.

01:19:04 ◼   ► And this is, you can, I picked this word

01:19:07 ◼   ► because I think you can, it's kind of like a Rorschach test.

01:19:12 ◼   ► you can see what you want to see in it.

01:19:13 ◼   ► They are changing as a company.

01:19:15 ◼   ► They're not the Apple that they used to be.

01:19:17 ◼   ► And I think for me personally, in 2023,

01:19:20 ◼   ► with the exception of one disappointment,

01:19:23 ◼   ► which I'm guessing you want to ask about next,

01:19:25 ◼   ► all the other changes are good.

01:19:29 ◼   ► The renewed interest in macOS is fantastic.

01:19:32 ◼   ► And you know, they're gonna do a headset now.

01:19:35 ◼   ► They are changing as a company.

01:19:37 ◼   ► They're gonna do different products.

01:19:38 ◼   ► They have tons of new different types of accessories

01:19:42 ◼   ► that you can buy compared to when I started covering Apple,

01:19:46 ◼   ► gosh, 14 years ago.

01:19:49 ◼   ► We have Apple Watches and AirPods

01:19:52 ◼   ► and different types of Macs and now a headset.

01:19:55 ◼   ► And this is fantastic.

01:19:57 ◼   ► They are changing as a company.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Some changes are not so great.

01:20:01 ◼   ► But from my perspective is change,

01:20:05 ◼   ► This kind of change has had for me a few roadblocks

01:20:10 ◼   ► over the past year.

01:20:13 ◼   ► There's been a few problems, a few points of friction,

01:20:15 ◼   ► but looking at the horizon,

01:20:18 ◼   ► I think these changes are gonna be great

01:20:22 ◼   ► because I love my iPhone, I love my AirPods,

01:20:26 ◼   ► I love my Apple Watch,

01:20:27 ◼   ► and now with these headsets coming out,

01:20:30 ◼   ► I am very much optimistic about the future

01:20:34 ◼   ► from me as a person in the Apple ecosystem.

01:20:37 ◼   ► - What about iPad Pro, wasted potential?

01:20:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the problem.

01:20:44 ◼   ► Yeah, this is the problem for me.

01:20:46 ◼   ► I am, I can simply, this is gonna be

01:20:51 ◼   ► a much longer conversation for hopefully later this month.

01:20:55 ◼   ► I'm tired of having to use two computers to do my work.

01:21:02 ◼   ► At the moment, look here's my simple intro to what is going to be a longer conversation.

01:21:11 ◼   ► At the moment, Apple doesn't make the computer I want.

01:21:17 ◼   ► It's just as simple as that.

01:21:19 ◼   ► They either make iPads, but iPads are not as functional as Macs, or they make portable

01:21:25 ◼   ► Macs, but Macs are not tablets.

01:21:29 ◼   ► So the computer I want from Apple does not exist at the moment.

01:21:35 ◼   ► And this has been something that has taken me months to accept.

01:21:45 ◼   ► Because the thing is, look, I love a touchscreen.

01:21:47 ◼   ► I love a tablet.

01:21:48 ◼   ► I love a modular computer.

01:21:49 ◼   ► I want something that I can touch, that I can hold, that I can move, that I can place

01:21:52 ◼   ► on a desk, that I can close, that I can open, you know, just who I am.

01:21:57 ◼   ► As a person I like this type of computer.

01:22:00 ◼   ► As a person I like red wine, I like pasta, I like pizza, I like going to the beach, and

01:22:04 ◼   ► I like a tablet.

01:22:06 ◼   ► You know?

01:22:07 ◼   ► Suomi, whatever.

01:22:08 ◼   ► That's the computer I like.

01:22:11 ◼   ► But they don't make the computer I want.

01:22:13 ◼   ► See they make the computer I like, but they don't make the computer I need.

01:22:16 ◼   ► And that's my issue.

01:22:18 ◼   ► But iPadOS and iPad Pro wasted potential because if I want to do my work, which recording podcasts,

01:22:30 ◼   ► for example, huge part of my life, spend several hours each week doing multiple shows, and

01:22:35 ◼   ► I just cannot do it the way I want to.

01:22:40 ◼   ► I know there are other solutions, please don't send me suggestions.

01:22:42 ◼   ► I've tried all of them.

01:22:43 ◼   ► I spent way too much money on all of those.

01:22:47 ◼   ► The way I want to record, the way that a Mac or the way that a PC lets me do it, it's just

01:22:54 ◼   ► not possible on an iPad.

01:22:56 ◼   ► And I think at this point, you know, 13 years into the iPad's existence, you know, coming

01:23:03 ◼   ► up on April 3rd, the iPad is going to turn 13, right?

01:23:10 ◼   ► 13, at what point do you wanna, you know, keep hoping?

01:23:17 ◼   ► And instead maybe you're just like, "Okay, maybe it's time to look elsewhere."

01:23:20 ◼   ► But the thing is, now it's, you know, again, we're gonna talk about this again.

01:23:26 ◼   ► The thing is, there's an interesting change on the horizon, and it goes back to that idea

01:23:32 ◼   ► of, well, so far you've liked tablets and your life has been a certain way, but now

01:23:42 ◼   ► what if, you know, maybe you are gonna prefer when you are at home, finally you have a home,

01:23:49 ◼   ► finally I'm a homeowner, what if you're actually gonna prefer to work in VR? Like, hey, I've

01:23:56 ◼   ► gone through multiple changes in my life and in my career at Mac Stories. I started out

01:24:00 ◼   ► with the Mac and then I embraced the iPad and I fell in love with the iPad.

01:24:05 ◼   ► And you know, there are phases in life and maybe the next season of my life is I'm gonna

01:24:11 ◼   ► be a weird dude who likes to work in VR.

01:24:15 ◼   ► And so from that perspective, I mentioned 15-inch MacBook Air maybe, because maybe I'll

01:24:22 ◼   ► become a person who has a MacBook Air and when I wanna work in VR, I'm gonna, you know,

01:24:28 ◼   ► my headset with the MacBook Air because you know, or you just know it, then they're not

01:24:32 ◼   ► going to let you do the desktop simulation powered by iPadOS, even though they should,

01:24:38 ◼   ► but they're not going to do it. They're just going to make it MacOS only. So maybe I'm

01:24:43 ◼   ► going to become a person who likes to work in VR. And this kind of change is always scary,

01:24:49 ◼   ► but I've always, and I like to be, I like to be the kind of person who in my personal

01:24:53 ◼   ► life and in my work life, I go through seasons of my life. And maybe this is the next season

01:24:58 ◼   ► for me. But the reality is at the moment, Apple, at least based on who I've been and

01:25:04 ◼   ► who I am so far, they don't make it the computer I want. Who knows what it's gonna be like

01:25:10 ◼   ► in six months. I feel like that is a vibe checked. Yeah, so that's the vibe you're getting

01:25:17 ◼   ► from me. It's a good vibe. But seriously, I am thinking about the MacBook Air. The 15

01:25:24 ◼   ► - 16 inch though?

01:25:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:25:26 ◼   ► - Why that over a 13?

01:25:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, just, you know, more windows, more space, you know,

01:25:33 ◼   ► but it's still gonna be lightweight.

01:25:35 ◼   ► - See, I would say, but so yeah, I agree with you, but--

01:25:38 ◼   ► - It's new.

01:25:39 ◼   ► - Aren't you more likely to plug it into your studio display?

01:25:42 ◼   ► - I mean, I got the space for it.

01:25:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, you see, I would, I understand what you're saying,

01:25:49 ◼   ► but I think the 13 is good 'cause it's the good balance

01:25:51 ◼   ► between power and portability.

01:25:53 ◼   ► and I think 15 is a little less portable.

01:25:55 ◼   ► - We'll see, we'll see.

01:25:56 ◼   ► I'm probably gonna go check it out

01:25:57 ◼   ► at an Apple store before I commit.

01:25:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:26:00 ◼   ► I think the MacBook Air is the machine for you though,

01:26:03 ◼   ► whenever you do decide to buy a Mac.

01:26:04 ◼   ► Like whatever one you go with,

01:26:07 ◼   ► I think the MacBook Air is the perfect computer.

01:26:08 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:26:09 ◼   ► And look, I've said it before,

01:26:11 ◼   ► the moment Apple is gonna make a true convertible computer,

01:26:18 ◼   ► boy, I'm in.

01:26:19 ◼   ► But they don't make it.

01:26:22 ◼   ► It could be the iPad Pro, but it's not.

01:26:27 ◼   ► So at this point, you know, I've tried what I needed to try.

01:26:32 ◼   ► I've done what I needed to do.

01:26:34 ◼   ► I proved my point.

01:26:35 ◼   ► I loved every single moment of proving my point

01:26:39 ◼   ► and using it, but the point has been proven.

01:26:42 ◼   ► And, you know.

01:26:43 ◼   ► - Well, I don't actually think it has been

01:26:45 ◼   ► in that sense, right?

01:26:46 ◼   ► - Well, at least with the tools I have so far.

01:26:48 ◼   ► - You've gone as far as you can go,

01:26:51 ◼   ► But Apple's not met you there.

01:26:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:55 ◼   ► It's just I reached the end of the line and it's just me.

01:26:57 ◼   ► You know, John Travolta style looking around by myself.

01:27:00 ◼   ► What's happening?

01:27:01 ◼   ► Come on, where has it gone?

01:27:03 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:27:04 ◼   ► So.

01:27:05 ◼   ► Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Connected.

01:27:07 ◼   ► Next week, Steven will be back, which will be fun and maybe there'll be like a good

01:27:10 ◼   ► intro and outro.

01:27:11 ◼   ► He's really good at those.

01:27:12 ◼   ► I'm not so good at them for this show.

01:27:14 ◼   ► But if you want to find Federico in the meantime, you go to maxstories.net.

01:27:18 ◼   ► You can also find Federico at mastodon.maxstories.net as @vittici.

01:27:23 ◼   ► You can find me on Mike.social as @imike.

01:27:28 ◼   ► You can also find me and many Relay FM shows that I'm on and the ones that I'm not on at

01:27:34 ◼   ► relay.fm.

01:27:35 ◼   ► So you can go find those there as well.

01:27:37 ◼   ► I also have other work over at cortexbrand.com and you can find Steven's work over at firetopexels.net

01:27:44 ◼   ► and he is on eWorld.social as @ismh.

01:27:50 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Hover and Indeed and ExpressVPN for the support of this show. Thank

01:27:55 ◼   ► you if you support the show by being a member go to getconnectedpro.co and you can sign

01:28:03 ◼   ► up and get longer ad free episodes every single week along with access to the Relay FM members

01:28:11 ◼   ► discord and tons of other benefits. Until next time Federico, say goodbye.

01:28:16 ◼   ► Arrivederci.