The Accidental Tech Podcast

154: A Rich Toddler’s Toy

 

  I hate looking at text manipulation and [TS]

  JavaScript just makes me sad [TS]

  of course we got a for loop with an [TS]

  iterator that's great good language for [TS]

  RI equal zero I less than words that [TS]

  length i plus plus seriously that's [TS]

  every sea-based language come on oh wait [TS]

  no not necessarily it already even even [TS]

  got objective c kit has been interesting [TS]

  / collections without an explicit [TS]

  iterator for many many years now in fact [TS]

  it's been like seven different versions [TS]

  of the iterating over collections even [TS]

  PHP has that just depressing every [TS]

  single javascript library influence [TS]

  their on each thing you know and all the [TS]

  the es6 and all the other you know yet [TS]

  maybe even the later version cs5 have [TS]

  stuff like this but then you gotta go [TS]

  back down to just the very bottom [TS]

  javascript is the new PHP I'm saying [TS]

  don't forget to use triple equals avoid [TS]

  those corporations we should probably do [TS]

  some follow-up so chris adams in rodents [TS]

  tell us about audio bus do you want to [TS]

  talk to us about that John sure was I [TS]

  think it was Marco who misled us on the [TS]

  last program yet that's what about audio [TS]

  bus being a network thing chris says the [TS]

  audio was never relied on network back [TS]

  for interprocess communication there's a [TS]

  blog post by Michael tyson i think is [TS]

  one of the creators will put a link in [TS]

  the show notes and it explains that the [TS]

  earliest versions of us used to midi sis [TS]

  text messages which allow for arbitrary [TS]

  buffers of data to be sent across the [TS]

  minibus later migrated to mock reports I [TS]

  know what those are which apples many [TS]

  messaging is built on top of so there's [TS]

  audio boss audio processor is getting a [TS]

  bad rap on last episode is not as crazy [TS]

  as we made it sound and how about the [TS]

  internet audio framework [TS]

  yeah and so the last episode we're also [TS]

  talking about supported better supported [TS]

  AP is rather not that put random [TS]

  third-party thing is bad necessarily [TS]

  especially since this building on top of [TS]

  existing facilities like the midi thing [TS]

  and mach port structure part of the [TS]

  colonel that's underneath the iOS and OS [TS]

  10 and apple TV OS and the watch OSN so [TS]

  on and so forth [TS]

  well there is added in ios7 to the audio [TS]

  unit framework something called interact [TS]

  audio IA [TS]

  that enables a the ability to send midi [TS]

  commands and stream audio between apps [TS]

  on the same device and so if there are a [TS]

  bunch of applications that support this [TS]

  mechanism as I imagine there are after [TS]

  iOS 7 things like you know virtual [TS]

  effects pedals you know for audio [TS]

  applications that you can send a new [TS]

  audio for one out together but of course [TS]

  says marker pointed out last time skype [TS]

  doesn't support these type of things [TS]

  probably is never going to support these [TS]

  type of things so there's still a place [TS]

  for and officially supported by the OS [TS]

  way to route audio arbitrarily because [TS]

  all the audio is going through or the OS [TS]

  are being over the is aware that it's [TS]

  happening and the routing capabilities [TS]

  are probably in there which is how tools [TS]

  like loopback and audio hijack work [TS]

  their magic but they're the fact that [TS]

  they're using private api's makes them a [TS]

  little bit dangerous that too to support [TS]

  over the long term home so be better of [TS]

  apple instead of you know instead of [TS]

  forcing every single application [TS]

  developer on an entire system to write [TS]

  to a new API especially those [TS]

  applications don't consider themselves [TS]

  audio apps like the most is a geyser for [TS]

  people who are making music applications [TS]

  to work together it would still be nice [TS]

  for the OS to expose the mechanisms that [TS]

  are so clearly there to control the [TS]

  audio routing at the ls level rather [TS]

  than just the individual app level [TS]

  cooperating with each other through the [TS]

  US so Marco tell us about lightning only [TS]

  headphones as John Casey asked about yes [TS]

  this is not confusing at all so John [TS]

  Casey asked about something crazy and i [TS]

  will be talking about [TS]

  so basically he he throughout the [TS]

  industry idea regarding the future of [TS]

  the iphone 7 not having a headphone jack [TS]

  probably and a future makes headphones [TS]

  are lightning only he said many phones [TS]

  come with detachable and replaceable [TS]

  cables any chance Apple might make a [TS]

  replacement cable not just an adapter [TS]

  dongle the idea there would be that [TS]

  apple sells you a eight just a straight [TS]

  replacement cable for your for your [TS]

  legacy headphones and so one and [TS]

  highlighting the rain has a little [TS]

  skinny to plug in the headphones at the [TS]

  top and instead of just being this cold [TS]

  feet after the bottom this and of course [TS]

  in the middle they could put a really [TS]

  good clicker it should be great so [TS]

  this is a great idea in in theory in [TS]

  practice it would probably not work very [TS]

  well because the problem is the the end [TS]

  of the cable at the headphone at the [TS]

  earcups end of it that end is not [TS]

  standard now usually it is either [TS]

  another three-and-a-half a shack just [TS]

  like that just like the end by the phone [TS]

  or its it could be a smaller one the [TS]

  two-and-a-half inch version of the two [TS]

  and a half millimeter and then around it [TS]

  you have a similar problem to the very [TS]

  very first iphone or had that big [TS]

  plastic surround and you couldn't fit [TS]

  every kind of headphone plug into it [TS]

  sometimes the plug would be too wide [TS]

  like the the plastic around around the [TS]

  plug would be too wide and it just [TS]

  wouldn't fit around the housing around [TS]

  the port that problem exists big time on [TS]

  on headphones with replaceable cables [TS]

  we're so often i'd say most of the time [TS]

  a headphone can't actually even a [TS]

  headphone that has a detachable cable [TS]

  usually can't use another cable made for [TS]

  a different headphone usually something [TS]

  about it doesn't fit or it doesn't click [TS]

  in right after some kind of locking [TS]

  mechanism or something like that so in [TS]

  practice the end of the headphone cable [TS]

  on on the headphone on the earcup is not [TS]

  standardized enough even among the ones [TS]

  with removable cables to make it [TS]

  possible for somebody to make like a [TS]

  general-purpose aftermarket replacement [TS]

  that fits a lot of them [TS]

  that being said Apple could of course [TS]

  make like one that works for all Beats [TS]

  or at least the most common beats don't [TS]

  have that many popular models they could [TS]

  cover those and and cover a large [TS]

  portion of the apple headphones using [TS]

  population that is not saying it's [TS]

  likely they would do this i think the [TS]

  most likely answer is they wouldn't [TS]

  dress at all and the answer would just [TS]

  be well by new headphones or use our [TS]

  adapter do all beats have detachable [TS]

  cables my you know I don't know enough [TS]

  about them to save all do i know many of [TS]

  them do and and generally speaking [TS]

  detachable cables are something i always [TS]

  hope the headphones have and I always [TS]

  always doing them if they don't in the [TS]

  review because especially reporting for [TS]

  desk headphones not as necessary because [TS]

  you tend not to wear those out [TS]

  portable headphones you know they are [TS]

  constantly being wrapped up and [TS]

  unwrapped and putting back to taking out [TS]

  and everything and select there's a lot [TS]

  of stress on the cable [TS]

  in the end usually what makes headphones [TS]

  died what makes it fun to go bad or stop [TS]

  being usable is usually one of two [TS]

  things usually either the wire phrase [TS]

  near one of the ends usually the phone [TS]

  and but if it's a permanent cable could [TS]

  also frame at the place where it meets [TS]

  the earcup or if their beats they [TS]

  literally break in half because the head [TS]

  literally because if you're if you're on [TS]

  if you have a plastic headband when when [TS]

  you put headphones on the headbands to [TS]

  stretch out a little bit and that is so [TS]

  it's constantly being stretched and on [TS]

  stretching stretching and rest of the [TS]

  stress of that if you have an all [TS]

  plastic headband very often results in [TS]

  the headband cracking right in the [TS]

  middle that is usually how bad [TS]

  headphones break good headphones usually [TS]

  eventually break is the cables go bad [TS]

  somewhere on the way [TS]

  alright anyway we have some super [TS]

  important follow-up the internet and [TS]

  prosper possibly the country or maybe [TS]

  even the world would like to know John [TS]

  what's going on with your destiny had we [TS]

  talked about my when I had to move my [TS]

  playstation 4 off of my plasma [TS]

  television onto a separate gaming [TS]

  monitor because i was playing destiny a [TS]

  lot and I noticed that the HUD is up on [TS]

  the screen while playing destiny was [TS]

  burning into my plasma screen so i had [TS]

  to evict the entire console from the [TS]

  television which is kind of a shame [TS]

  because it looked way better my TV that [TS]

  doesn't this terrible little monitor [TS]

  that i'm using right now but when i [TS]

  moved it away i also set a calendar [TS]

  reminder for a year in the future to say [TS]

  course mom it reminding me to check [TS]

  whether the Destiny HUD has finally worn [TS]

  off of my television because of what i [TS]

  heard from people had people have the [TS]

  same model as me is that yes and [TS]

  retention is a problem but in most cases [TS]

  it's not actually permanent it just [TS]

  takes forever to go away so it's fine [TS]

  i'll put a thing for years some people [TS]

  say it took many months some people they [TS]

  took multiple years so i figure i'll put [TS]

  a reminder for a year [TS]

  it's not like I forgotten about it i'm [TS]

  watching TV and I've been looking at it [TS]

  fact i'm always looking my television i [TS]

  was noticing that the you know the [TS]

  cartoon network along with that I've [TS]

  complained about impact shows was [TS]

  burning in anyway this is the year [TS]

  anniversary today I think probably the [TS]

  day so I took a look at my television in [TS]

  the various ways that you can do what [TS]

  you put in solid colors behind it and a [TS]

  pure white screen and stuff like that [TS]

  and i can say that the from a normal [TS]

  setting distance if I didn't know where [TS]

  the HUD was supposed to be I wouldn't be [TS]

  able to see it i think a normal person [TS]

  would not be able to see it I can barely [TS]

  see only the superb are the big bar that [TS]

  feels with a with color as your super [TS]

  gets charged up and turns the other ones [TS]

  for charge [TS]

  I can barely kind of make out where that [TS]

  used to be no other part of the hundred [TS]

  visible and that even like I i got [TS]

  really close to television like am I [TS]

  just imagining that it's there because i [TS]

  remember where it was trying to love to [TS]

  see this [TS]

  so I its it is almost entirely gone you [TS]

  can totally see the big c and the little [TS]

  bit of the end cartoon network's that's [TS]

  a good you know [TS]

  thing to compare it to like I can see [TS]

  the CN and Cartoon Network has been [TS]

  banned from this television as well now [TS]

  but so I say that the the estimated [TS]

  experiment is not coming back to my TV [TS]

  ps4 is not coming that evo x I might [TS]

  move back for individual game or two but [TS]

  i won't play destiny over there anyway [TS]

  it has faded substantially so what look [TS]

  like a permanent image retention was not [TS]

  actually permanent just took a really [TS]

  really long time to go away so i suppose [TS]

  i put another calendar on him for a year [TS]

  from now or visit for a second year to [TS]

  see if it's really really gone but at [TS]

  some point is one replaces TV with the [TS]

  fancy old one so people need to start [TS]

  making better televisions the name of [TS]

  every episode people to start making [TS]

  better television they do John [TS]

  Syracuse's our noses the bad time for [TS]

  tvs trying to wait about I i bought i [TS]

  felt like i bought at the right time [TS]

  about the peak of the previous [TS]

  generation of televisions and now just [TS]

  got just endure this until we can't go [TS]

  outside [TS]

  yeah it does seem like you bought [TS]

  probably the best 1080p plasma that will [TS]

  ever exist and probably the best plasma [TS]

  that will ever exist and now you just [TS]

  kind of have to wait for like when 4k [TS]

  gets non stupid [TS]

  well yeah they got to work out all the [TS]

  HDR [TS]

  stuff and work out their standards there [TS]

  and then get the the old kinks worked [TS]

  out like there was a fancier model than [TS]

  the 1i got but had started lower [TS]

  brightness and so I sacrificed and it [TS]

  was also more money and I was like it's [TS]

  very similar it's really too close to [TS]

  call and I think the extra brightness [TS]

  will be a what i want to be i bought [TS]

  pretty much at the right time and I [TS]

  lucked out with the the fan noise and [TS]

  everything which I was afraid of that [TS]

  turned out not to be an issue especially [TS]

  compared to my previous television but [TS]

  right now I when I finally did read up [TS]

  on all the tvs and see us and everything [TS]

  and now it's like just a battle over the [TS]

  high dynamic range standards and you [TS]

  know that all those different standards [TS]

  and which channels are going to support [TS]

  what for broadcast and we'll netflix [TS]

  supported and what things the ultra HD [TS]

  blu rays are supporting and what [TS]

  television manufacturers are and it's [TS]

  just it's a big mess i really want to [TS]

  just be settled and then it and then of [TS]

  course i'll let you have to make you [TS]

  have to make a few generations always [TS]

  before they get that worked out so the [TS]

  long way to go here I mean a lot of the [TS]

  HDR standards are being supported by [TS]

  televisions the can actually display the [TS]

  entire range of the HDR stuff yet so [TS]

  yeah two or three years probably [TS]

  now just to prevent us from getting a [TS]

  crudload of email would you mind [TS]

  reminding listeners what TV you ended up [TS]

  I oh I don't remember the name for its [TS]

  panasonic a vt60 excellent the zt60 was [TS]

  the fancy this is the slightly fancier [TS]

  one [TS]

  alright thank you very much now do you [TS]

  want to tell us about pirate eye patches [TS]

  because we got a surprising about 15 [TS]

  back about pirate eye patch is never in [TS]

  my life did I think we would be getting [TS]

  this series about pirate eye patches on [TS]

  the accidental text podcast but here we [TS]

  are [TS]

  I opened the door the pirate eye patch [TS]

  organized well finish closing here so [TS]

  the first thing to point out which is [TS]

  not something we discussed last time is [TS]

  not whether or not the things we said [TS]

  about a pirate eye patch is helping you [TS]

  see in the dark or actually you know it [TS]

  was actually true doesn't actually help [TS]

  you see in the dark as we didn't like [TS]

  the Mythbusters episode about that but [TS]

  the larger issue of did lots of pirates [TS]

  have eye patches and the consensus on [TS]

  that seems to be probably not like [TS]

  there's no evidence of that the only [TS]

  reason we think that is because you know [TS]

  Hollywood [TS]

  and various movies and stories and [TS]

  famous pirates and black beard and all [TS]

  that other business or whatever but [TS]

  historical records of parts like for [TS]

  there a lot of one re odd parts were all [TS]

  the Pirates wearing eye patches i can [TS]

  see better under decks there's no [TS]

  evidence for that so that is basically [TS]

  probably really powerful you know and [TS]

  not really based on anything but the [TS]

  other part that we're talking about it [TS]

  does that actually help you see [TS]

  underdecks and this I think is a great [TS]

  example of what i would call testing [TS]

  versus explaining some somebody sent us [TS]

  a link to this other podcast that had I [TS]

  was I forget what it's called but it's a [TS]

  like acuminate I podcast we asked [TS]

  questions that an expert on to answer [TS]

  and the question was like hey if you put [TS]

  an eye patch over your I would that help [TS]

  you see better because 1i will be [TS]

  adjusted to the dark or whatever and [TS]

  then the person on the show said their [TS]

  answer contained all correct information [TS]

  but didn't really lead to the correct [TS]

  conclusion and the idea was that you [TS]

  keep one eye under an eye patch and the [TS]

  other eye out of it it's not as if the [TS]

  eye on the eye patch of the people is [TS]

  going to dilate massively and the eyes [TS]

  out of the eye patch that people's not [TS]

  going to because in general if one of [TS]

  your pupils is way bigger than the other [TS]

  you probably just got hit really hard [TS]

  you should see a doctor like they they [TS]

  tend to be the same size favors called a [TS]

  consensual response or whatever like [TS]

  that your pupils are basically you've [TS]

  heard on all the television shows you [TS]

  know are equal and reactive when they [TS]

  did a little nightlight thing in your [TS]

  eyes to make sure that a your eyes [TS]

  respond to light by you know you people [TS]

  getting smaller and be that they're [TS]

  equal if one of them stays open [TS]

  they want you to go to the doctor really [TS]

  quickly right and so they said therefore [TS]

  the whole idea of our iPad is silly [TS]

  because it's not as if the one under the [TS]

  eye patch is going to have a really [TS]

  dilated people just waiting for you to [TS]

  go under decks and flip up the eye patch [TS]

  right now what the Mythbusters did [TS]

  instead was rather than trying to think [TS]

  of a theory why when Morgan said well [TS]

  this is easy enough to test we just make [TS]

  a dark place and put my passion [TS]

  someone's eye and given some silly task [TS]

  let's see how fast that we're an episode [TS]

  but see how fast they can accomplish a [TS]

  bunch of tasks and its really dark room [TS]

  and tried with throughout without the [TS]

  eye patch and the eyepatch just crushed [TS]

  the non eyepatch one it was extremely [TS]

  efficient way to see better in the dark [TS]

  and so how do you how do you square this [TS]

  circle that where the explaining things [TS]

  went wrong is [TS]

  the idea that the size of your pupils [TS]

  the only thing that determines how well [TS]

  you see in the dark that is one aspect [TS]

  that would people opens up more to let [TS]

  more light in the other aspect of it is [TS]

  how sensitive little things in the back [TS]

  of your IR and someone sent us a link to [TS]

  think about astronomy red lights in [TS]

  astronomy and wide running these red [TS]

  lights when you're you know looking up [TS]

  at the stars and that contains another [TS]

  another theory of what helps you see in [TS]

  the dark and it's the sensitivity of the [TS]

  rods at the back of your eye that help [TS]

  you see in the dark from this article [TS]

  during daylight hours you're Roger [TS]

  overexposed and so they're less [TS]

  efficient as life gets them are chemical [TS]

  change allows them to become even more [TS]

  sensitive in your eyes become dark [TS]

  adapted it only takes brief exposure to [TS]

  bright light for the rods to overexpose [TS]

  once that happens you have a half an [TS]

  hour or more to regain dark sensitivity [TS]

  so you really wanted to be on the [TS]

  eyepatch not to change the size of your [TS]

  people but to get the rods in that I [TS]

  which are not consensual with the [TS]

  resonator I'm like your your iris [TS]

  dilation to get them to be more [TS]

  sensitive to light and it's important [TS]

  because if you expose them just for a [TS]

  short period of time it's gonna take [TS]

  like half an hour for them to get back [TS]

  to super dark sent away because chemical [TS]

  change in the eye and not just a [TS]

  physical change and you know that simply [TS]

  adjusting the aperture of your eyeball [TS]

  is over is aperture basically yeah [TS]

  so there you go everything you ever [TS]

  wanted to know about pirate probably not [TS]

  because people are still gonna want to [TS]

  know why the hell did we think parts of [TS]

  ipads i forget which particular pop [TS]

  culture thing cost us to think that but [TS]

  we're going to see whether or not they [TS]

  have I patches if they did they could [TS]

  use them just like the Mythbusters and [TS]

  would help them see in the dark better [TS]

  fair enough when do you want to talk [TS]

  about how this relates to programming [TS]

  well I don't know how like the testing [TS]

  versus explaining i guess like one of my [TS]

  pet peeves as an old cranky programmer [TS]

  is if you hear it whether it's going on [TS]

  between you and another programmer are [TS]

  you here to other programmers sitting [TS]

  here you talking to each other about [TS]

  usually some sleep corner of the [TS]

  language things people have talked about [TS]

  language but even Google be an API or [TS]

  whatever well if you do this you do that [TS]

  it does that and you know if you if you [TS]

  call it this way that will happen and [TS]

  this thing doesn't have blonde and let's [TS]

  go back and forth for what seems like a [TS]

  really long time especially if they're [TS]

  sitting near you and talking to you [TS]

  going to get work done and didn't try [TS]

  morning last seconds [TS]

  yeah trying to help with like you know [TS]

  explain to each other no actually [TS]

  language works with all your not [TS]

  accounting visible blah where there's no [TS]

  reason to have this discussion because [TS]

  in 20 seconds of typing you can find the [TS]

  answer definitively like you don't have [TS]

  to speculate about what the language [TS]

  features like so is that a syntax error [TS]

  or how would you do that expression of [TS]

  this is the correct way to do references [TS]

  or whatever don't speculate not debated [TS]

  for 10 minutes just type it in pop up [TS]

  there's your answer and then you can [TS]

  talk about why that's the answer or [TS]

  whatever but you don't have to do Google [TS]

  searches not doing anything like [TS]

  especially if your language of the rebel [TS]

  just just find out so it's testing [TS]

  versus explaining that explaining and [TS]

  theorizing and thought experience a good [TS]

  idea but when it's really really easy or [TS]

  you know simple or very rarely available [TS]

  to test it just testing this is faster [TS]

  and better and will lead you wrong in [TS]

  its own type of ways if you do your [TS]

  testing badly but sometimes it things [TS]

  are just very simple so the eyepatch [TS]

  thing is like we have a theory we think [TS]

  I patches help you see better in the [TS]

  dark [TS]

  is that true so easy to test you can [TS]

  spend all day talking to you know [TS]

  doctors and neurologists and theorizing [TS]

  about know probably get the right answer [TS]

  but if you get off on the wrong track [TS]

  and think about all the dilation that's [TS]

  not you know that that's not going to [TS]

  help you there [TS]

  it's just so much easier to test [TS]

  something advisors knows or cares why it [TS]

  works [TS]

  they just tested it and assuming the [TS]

  test is reasonably sound they come to a [TS]

  useful conclusion in much less time [TS]

  before we do the last bit of incredibly [TS]

  incredibly exciting follow up our first [TS]

  bunch of this week is Harry's go to [TS]

  Harry's calm and use promo code ATP to [TS]

  say five dollars off your first purchase [TS]

  Harry's offers high-quality razors and [TS]

  blades for a fraction of the price of [TS]

  the big razor brands they started by two [TS]

  guys who wanted a better product without [TS]

  paying an arm and a leg they make their [TS]

  own blades from their own factory an [TS]

  oblate factory in Germany that they [TS]

  actually bought these are high quality [TS]

  high performing German blades crafted by [TS]

  shaping experts give you a better shave [TS]

  respect your face and your wallet here [TS]

  is our first factory direct pricing at a [TS]

  fraction of the big-brand prices there [TS]

  about half the price of what used to [TS]

  paying for big brand razor blades in the [TS]

  supermarket now the starter set is an [TS]

  amazing deal for fifteen bucks you get a [TS]

  razor moisturizing shave cream or gel [TS]

  and three razor blade cartridges when [TS]

  you need more [TS]

  blades just two dollars each or less so [TS]

  in a package is fifteen bucks a 16 pack [TS]

  is just 25 bucks 16 blade for 25 bucks [TS]

  is roughly half the price of what you [TS]

  would pay for the big brands you're [TS]

  probably thinking of that sells the [TS]

  expensive razor blade in the store and I [TS]

  would say these are very comfortable to [TS]

  those quality and performance wise half [TS]

  the price [TS]

  so with Harry's you get comfort closest [TS]

  and comedians at the ridiculously low [TS]

  price of under two dollars per blade [TS]

  it's also very tastefully designed to [TS]

  get these nice you know heavy weighty [TS]

  handles kinda like like a modern madmen [TS]

  kind of aesthetic really nice aesthetic [TS]

  high-quality stuff feels good looks good [TS]

  comes in great packaging the website [TS]

  nice and easy to use and shave quality [TS]

  is very good with Harry's you get all [TS]

  this all at the half the price of the [TS]

  big brands get started today with a set [TS]

  that includes handle three blades and [TS]

  shaving cream for just 15 bucks [TS]

  including free shipping right to your [TS]

  door [TS]

  harrods.com use promo code ATP to save [TS]

  five dollars off your first purchase [TS]

  thank you very much to harry's now the [TS]

  incredibly interesting follow-up that [TS]

  we've been holding off on this whole [TS]

  time [TS]

  yes this is riveting and really [TS]

  important actually I joke because it is [TS]

  kind of silly but I was really [TS]

  interested to know where the crap is the [TS]

  serial code or serial number on a visa [TS]

  mounts imac and we discovered last week [TS]

  that the serial number for a regular [TS]

  imac with the Bigfoot is on the bottom [TS]

  of the foot right and so the question [TS]

  was if you get one with with the VESA [TS]

  mount that is like that custom on around [TS]

  the back doesn't have the foot doesn't [TS]

  come with the foot where they put the [TS]

  serial number right and so we figured [TS]

  you know probably would be somewhere on [TS]

  the mount or what-have-you because where [TS]

  else would it be [TS]

  and sure enough James McCain has written [TS]

  in and included a picture this is [TS]

  professional level follow up right here [TS]

  included a picture of exactly where the [TS]

  serial number is on his visa mount imac [TS]

  and [TS]

  and so it turns out it is if you flip [TS]

  the entire machine upside down its kind [TS]

  of printed in there right by the fan is [TS]

  that the exhaust or intake in the back [TS]

  that is exhaust intake is it is the big [TS]

  bridge in the bottom enough so anyway so [TS]

  that's where it is [TS]

  as it turns out i was waiting for Jason [TS]

  smell to let us know but apparently he's [TS]

  not caught up on the show I'm very upset [TS]

  him but James McCain has saved the day [TS]

  so thank you James [TS]

  i remember back in the day speaking of [TS]

  serial numbers that if you've got [TS]

  certain repairs done to say your laptop [TS]

  mac the serial number would change [TS]

  because they give you a full [TS]

  motherboards a pop or whatever and if [TS]

  that's still the case you especially [TS]

  that's why i was asking if this is a [TS]

  sticker or etched onto the thing you [TS]

  could end up [TS]

  I mean you could end up with that they [TS]

  replaced the guts of your imac with a [TS]

  machine that has a different serial [TS]

  number than the one that is actually [TS]

  etched into the metal on the device [TS]

  which can be very confusing to all [TS]

  involved if you're not aware that i [TS]

  think i remember we actually had [TS]

  repaired only that maybe to a white [TS]

  ibook maybe like my mom's why I book or [TS]

  something we had some repair and they [TS]

  said just so you know your serial number [TS]

  will be changing but even though have [TS]

  the same external case anyway I don't [TS]

  know if that's still an issue but it [TS]

  always struck me as weird it that they [TS]

  would attach the serial number 22 the [TS]

  physical device but it's really [TS]

  connected to the innards of the device [TS]

  you could end up in these are scenarios [TS]

  where things are wrong i think they can [TS]

  also like I don't know what does nothing [TS]

  for geniuses consensus I think they used [TS]

  to be able to change the serial number [TS]

  of your motherboard by like flashing it [TS]

  back to the old value but I don't know [TS]

  if that's the thing that they did [TS]

  yes so as a friend of the show Stephen [TS]

  hacking in the chat is saying crap i [TS]

  lost now they have to reseal realize the [TS]

  boards and usually that comes with a [TS]

  sticker you put over the edge serial [TS]

  number also the tipster the chat is [TS]

  saying the serials change for laptops [TS]

  they will often swap the bottom cover [TS]

  with one that has no cereal like to give [TS]

  you a sticker all the Indian the [TS]

  indignities yeah we we fixed your mac [TS]

  which by the way here's a sticker to put [TS]

  over the the beautiful laser etched in [TS]

  serial number that's there [TS]

  no thanks yeah i would mean the good [TS]

  thing is that they're you mean on [TS]

  laptops is it a problem on the desktop [TS]

  at least they're like hidden away in [TS]

  places that you'd never see it but if it [TS]

  sits on your laptop like now the modern [TS]

  ones that's on the outside on the bottom [TS]

  we you would totally see that [TS]

  well as I'm getting about [TS]

  thing that has no serial numbers and you [TS]

  can be like steve jobs with no license [TS]

  plates on his car [TS]

  yeah totally off the grid untracked by [TS]

  Apple serial number readers I'm [TS]

  untraceable except every other aspect [TS]

  trees will accept by all the software i [TS]

  just love how deeply offended you guys [TS]

  are about the thought of having a [TS]

  sticker on your computer [TS]

  look either you're a sticker person or [TS]

  you're not if you're not the idea of any [TS]

  sticker on there is like is horrible [TS]

  that's the whole reason we buy max we [TS]

  wouldn't have intel inside and video [TS]

  power all these like powered by [TS]

  invention by asus like all this stupid [TS]

  so they put on their computers then and [TS]

  on the pc world and here we don't have [TS]

  that if you are a sticker person you [TS]

  probably want better stickers then [TS]

  stupid apple secret them open [TS]

  alright so moving out of follow-up apple [TS]

  earnings were as we record last night it [TS]

  turns out they made a lot of money go [TS]

  figure [TS]

  but there's a couple things that I think [TS]

  are interesting first of all their [TS]

  guidance for iphone sales is down a bit [TS]

  so they haven't said if I if I [TS]

  understood things correctly they haven't [TS]

  said that they've sold less iphones [TS]

  already but they are expecting to sell [TS]

  SI phones in the next quarter is that [TS]

  accurate as compared to compared to the [TS]

  year-ago quarter right unless you're [TS]

  there were a number of reasons and [TS]

  liking the last year they there were [TS]

  some overflow from the holiday quarter [TS]

  that was very strong like some of those [TS]

  happen in the next in you know the next [TS]

  quarter and so we're not going to have [TS]

  that this year and also last year's tons [TS]

  of pent-up demand for the bigger screen [TS]

  phones and this year that has been [TS]

  alleviated and then there's currency [TS]

  fluctuations and economy fluctuations [TS]

  and everything else and I do we care [TS]

  doesn't matter well i mean i don't think [TS]

  we care about the details in the way [TS]

  that the people of financial called do [TS]

  like tell us exactly why this quarter [TS]

  will be weaker than ever but like I'm [TS]

  looking at a Jason sex college course [TS]

  with all the pretty graphs and [TS]

  everything you just look at the you know [TS]

  the 24 according to a quarter moving [TS]

  average graphs and try to get a shape of [TS]

  the lines of the various products and [TS]

  how they're doing and it's some kind of [TS]

  our job because a lot of it is revenue [TS]

  instead of units in these graphs but you [TS]

  can get a kind of idea of where the [TS]

  company is that with it [TS]

  various product lines you guys looking [TS]

  at this page mhm like look at Apple [TS]

  revenue for quarter moving average [TS]

  showing the total and the iphone ipad [TS]

  and the mac mhm right so wait you get a [TS]

  picture of the company here the total [TS]

  line shows you the company still going [TS]

  you know from the lower left of the [TS]

  upper right more or less if you could [TS]

  enter a trend line growth right good and [TS]

  then we're gonna come from using his [TS]

  iphone line that is going up but it's [TS]

  starting to get a little hump at the top [TS]

  of it not you know it's not going hockey [TS]

  stick it upwards now starting to go more [TS]

  like you know ski mobile monkey know [TS]

  whatever you want to call it a mound [TS]

  right the the slope is decreasing right [TS]

  along the bottom you have the mac which [TS]

  always on these graphs looks like just a [TS]

  flat line because the fluctuations the [TS]

  mac is so low below the iphone the [TS]

  fluctuations are barely visible and [TS]

  maybe at the ipad which like starts off [TS]

  around the same as the mac makes a [TS]

  tentative bid to go to the higher parts [TS]

  of the chart and says nevermind and [TS]

  actually dips below the mac in the most [TS]

  recent year [TS]

  yeah this was not a good report for the [TS]

  ipad no yes look at that look at the [TS]

  ipad one look at ipad units for quarter [TS]

  moving average that now it looks like [TS]

  it's like you know it's a it's hump it's [TS]

  an upside-down you [TS]

  it starts at the bottom goes up top and [TS]

  starts going down again and now we're [TS]

  getting like an actual proper hump but i [TS]

  think is a better one later on if you [TS]

  ever see like the ipod graft your single [TS]

  graph with the ipod on it to the ipod [TS]

  just looks like it comes out of nowhere [TS]

  makes this big lump and goes back down [TS]

  to basically zero it makes a nice [TS]

  mountain in the graph like hearing on [TS]

  the ipod oh nevermind had a good run [TS]

  yeah it's over the course of many many [TS]

  years but like that official can find [TS]

  that graph the things that struck [TS]

  striking out looking at the ipod is like [TS]

  that the ipod is like it's hump is even [TS]

  smaller than the ipad some for similar [TS]

  size to the iPads and we thought the [TS]

  ipod was this whole big world changing [TS]

  apples the ipod company kind of thing it [TS]

  is nothing compared to the iphone the [TS]

  problem with all these graphs as soon as [TS]

  you put the iphone the graph it totally [TS]

  blows the y-axis and you can't read [TS]

  anything anymore because it's a [TS]

  ridiculously huge make so much money so [TS]

  many units that everything else starts [TS]

  to kind of even out but anyway I I the [TS]

  one thing I put in the journals about [TS]

  this is I think the ipad is the the real [TS]

  story that i'm interested in at least [TS]

  and learning the results yet one also [TS]

  want one thing before it before we move [TS]

  onto the ipad is obviously the iphone is [TS]

  the company you know the iphone is the [TS]

  most important thing in the company by [TS]

  numbers and then by many other metrics [TS]

  it by a longshot it's not even close [TS]

  like it says it down here in on those [TS]

  charges cause it's the iphone made [TS]

  sixty-eight percent of the revenue in [TS]

  the entire company the average selling [TS]

  price of the iphone is incredibly [TS]

  important to the company's financial [TS]

  outlook and this is why you know it when [TS]

  I when I make predictions or when i try [TS]

  to explain things that that use the [TS]

  iphone average selling price as a [TS]

  justification for why Apple did or might [TS]

  do something this is this kind of shows [TS]

  you why that might override decisions [TS]

  from Apple about things like what's [TS]

  actually best for the customer or what [TS]

  actually might be the best product [TS]

  because it's everything's in balance [TS]

  with apple with any company everything's [TS]

  in balance [TS]

  no company is like pure good are pure [TS]

  evil everything's always these you know [TS]

  contending factors that are that are in [TS]

  a trying to reach equilibrium but [TS]

  there's there's always the always [TS]

  contention between them i don't have [TS]

  contending is a word but it is now [TS]

  anyway so with Apple they're always kind [TS]

  of fighting between what they can make [TS]

  you know what's possible to make what [TS]

  they can ship on time [TS]

  what's profitable and what's best for [TS]

  the customer in the case of like the [TS]

  iphone average selling price i think [TS]

  they are definitely willing to do moves [TS]

  that will raise the average selling [TS]

  price by a substantial amount even if [TS]

  it's kind of crappy for the customer and [TS]

  I think you can look at the 16 gig base [TS]

  size of the phones as one of the biggest [TS]

  examples of this that there is almost no [TS]

  other justification for that you can [TS]

  look at almost every other reason people [TS]

  get for that back when we all you know [TS]

  disgusted two years ago or whatever and [TS]

  you can you can rule almost all them out [TS]

  by other supporting reasons that people [TS]

  like well we buy all these phones in our [TS]

  company and no one ever uses more than [TS]

  16 gigs [TS]

  well you could also say a lot of phones [TS]

  don't use the ear positive in the box [TS]

  but they still include them like they're [TS]

  or you don't [TS]

  no your company doesn't use necessarily [TS]

  like 3d touch but that thing's in every [TS]

  phone to like so you can look at any [TS]

  part of it and you can say like you [TS]

  don't use this [TS]

  that's not necessarily a reason why the [TS]

  16 gig thing has to be there and be [TS]

  sucking be problematic for so many [TS]

  people anyway so Apple is willing and [TS]

  possibly i wouldn't say forced to but [TS]

  there's their strong pressure for Apple [TS]

  to keep that iphone asp up and growing [TS]

  and so for them to to do things that [TS]

  will increase the average selling price [TS]

  by even a little bit it matters enough [TS]

  and there's huge motivation to do it and [TS]

  so you look at something like the [TS]

  headphone jack thing and we're all [TS]

  saying Apple always includes headphones [TS]

  in the box [TS]

  what if this fall the iphone 7 comes out [TS]

  with no headphone jack and they don't [TS]

  include headphones in the box then a [TS]

  huge portion of iphone buyers are gonna [TS]

  go spend 30 more dollars when they buy [TS]

  that phone that's gonna be attachments [TS]

  that counts towards the average selling [TS]

  price i think of the phone itself anyway [TS]

  however they can't really account for [TS]

  that they're going to make a lot more [TS]

  money if they do that you know you can [TS]

  look at the cynically and you can see [TS]

  you know you can say like Apple will do [TS]

  this for sure because it'll make them [TS]

  more money and it sucks for us or you [TS]

  can look at it the opposite way and you [TS]

  can say Apple always wants to do what's [TS]

  best for customers they would never do [TS]

  that for that reason i do that the truth [TS]

  is somewhere in the middle there so we [TS]

  have to consider that meat and we look [TS]

  at what Apple does with a product line [TS]

  especially in regard to the iphone and [TS]

  how that impacts their profitability [TS]

  even for kind of sucks for us and all [TS]

  this financial stuff that comes out [TS]

  every quarter is a perfect reason why [TS]

  they have very strong reasons to to have [TS]

  some contention there don't feel like [TS]

  they're so wet average selling price [TS]

  because they have in the past I've done [TS]

  things that have heard there is a low [TS]

  cross selling price in their products to [TS]

  you know like the iPad Mini is a great [TS]

  example but margins I feel like a lot of [TS]

  their those decisions are just as easily [TS]

  explained if not better explained by [TS]

  margins because like the 16 gig think [TS]

  the average sales price selling price [TS]

  argument is this is going to push pull [TS]

  up to the bigger model because they [TS]

  don't feel like they can fit in 16 but [TS]

  also just result in more people like 16 [TS]

  you don't quite know example doesn't [TS]

  break it down like that for us right but [TS]

  surely one thing it does is increase [TS]

  margins because it's like 64 already had [TS]

  good margins and by keeping the lower [TS]

  116 you know like and try keeping the [TS]

  price is basically the same that 16 gigs [TS]

  they've including on there [TS]

  the phone for years and years it just [TS]

  got to be getting cheaper for them and [TS]

  get the phone price hasn't been dropping [TS]

  year-over-year over here so their [TS]

  markets go up and I think there are [TS]

  really sensitive to their margins their [TS]

  margins of things like forty percent or [TS]

  something across the board on all their [TS]

  stuff so even if they have to drop the [TS]

  average selling price by selling the [TS]

  ipad mini I bet they're very sensitive [TS]

  about what are the margins on the ipad [TS]

  mini how can we bring that down by [TS]

  putting crap your stuff in it you know [TS]

  that's kind of always what they're [TS]

  looking for [TS]

  can we sell you something with last [TS]

  year's technology and in some aspect [TS]

  because it saves us money whether it's [TS]

  like putting the the creditor camera and [TS]

  the ipod touch that's not subsidizing [TS]

  they have to have to maintain their [TS]

  margins or you know whatever they put in [TS]

  their low end phones or even on their [TS]

  highest end phones will keep the price [TS]

  is more or less the same but will give [TS]

  you 16 gigs for years and years because [TS]

  every year that gives us a little bit [TS]

  more on the margins and like you said [TS]

  Marko any anything you do whether it's [TS]

  average selling price of margins [TS]

  multiplied by the number of phones they [TS]

  sell is a tremendous amount of money and [TS]

  now that's a lot of what this call was [TS]

  about was like a foreign exchange rates [TS]

  and you know various other quote unquote [TS]

  head winds these fluctuations and how [TS]

  the dollar is valued against the other [TS]

  currencies in the world as you know it [TS]

  seems like it's not that big a deal it's [TS]

  not like we're in some financial [TS]

  meltdown where the dollar is like it [TS]

  worthless or worth ten times more than [TS]

  the other currencies in the world right [TS]

  but even my new movement and in the [TS]

  foreign exchange rates x apples revenue [TS]

  equals these tremendous number of other [TS]

  things that's all getting thrown around [TS]

  on Twitter like the amount of money [TS]

  Apple lost due to currency fluctuations [TS]

  is larger than the amount of money [TS]

  facebook made the entire year or [TS]

  something like that like just the [TS]

  numbers are so mind-bogglingly huge that [TS]

  any like the fluctuations in the chart [TS]

  looks like nothing like well you know [TS]

  it's a few pixels lower or whatever but [TS]

  like those pixels are billions and [TS]

  billions and billions of dollars so it's [TS]

  it's it's mind-boggling even consider [TS]

  this and that's why I'm so glad another [TS]

  financial world because trying to judge [TS]

  Apple as a from a financial perspective [TS]

  is just so so weird because of the way [TS]

  the things they value seemed so out of [TS]

  whack with the things that like a [TS]

  regular person would value about a [TS]

  company all they make a lot of money [TS]

  they're profitable to have lot of money [TS]

  in the bank boy that must be good stock [TS]

  like no where's the growth [TS]

  yeah this is like when something happens [TS]

  i am so happy that I no longer buy or [TS]

  sell individual stocks like you know i'm [TS]

  i'm like why I have mutual funds that [TS]

  include some of these things I'm sure [TS]

  but I don't manage that myself and I [TS]

  don't buy and sell stock anymore i'm so [TS]

  glad because I like I would think of [TS]

  things like you know the way you were [TS]

  like I would think of things like well [TS]

  you know apples doing great they have [TS]

  great prospects they're making a lot of [TS]

  money why this doctors take a dive like [TS]

  and it would it would frustrate me like [TS]

  crazy and of course that isn't how the [TS]

  market works at all like the market [TS]

  everyone says the market is stupid and [TS]

  understand Apple know the market is [TS]

  doing its own thing it's not stupid [TS]

  there's a there's a lot to be said about [TS]

  the bad but it's not stupid [TS]

  there's some stupid like really doesn't [TS]

  manifest in the other way where [TS]

  companies are overvalued for like [TS]

  because it means that my sister the farm [TS]

  gambling buy low sell high how do I know [TS]

  what slow well no it's something that's [TS]

  gonna be high later and so people at a [TS]

  bunch of people get together and say [TS]

  look at that company that's going to be [TS]

  super high later and you know it up and [TS]

  have astronomical evaluation of it [TS]

  because based on the potential this [TS]

  could be really high later boys [TS]

  everybody decides to buy this person's [TS]

  thing [TS]

  this will be great but you know it's [TS]

  basically it's speculation what do you [TS]

  thinks gonna be high next year is going [TS]

  to be apple is Apple going to go up by [TS]

  fifty percent by next year or this [TS]

  little company never heard of you can [TS]

  buy the stock for pennies you know so [TS]

  that's yeah it's not it's kind of [TS]

  soccer's bed [TS]

  not really because you can in theory [TS]

  have some knowledge that will help you [TS]

  do better witness people like Warren [TS]

  Buffett and everything are pretty sure [TS]

  not cheating [TS]

  they're just a little bit better playing [TS]

  this particular game of poker than other [TS]

  people [TS]

  so there is a skits and it's not a walk [TS]

  there is a skill-based aspect but for [TS]

  the most part like I don't get too mad [TS]

  about the way Apple is treated by the [TS]

  market because i have to think like I [TS]

  mean this is whatever is something for [TS]

  years and years like well but there's [TS]

  nowhere to go but down there at the top [TS]

  if you had thought that five years ago [TS]

  in five years before that in five years [TS]

  you just put him in wrong wrong wrong [TS]

  wrong that's what all the animals always [TS]

  point out it's like every time someone [TS]

  says that Apple's at the top and they [TS]

  can only go down you just wait five [TS]

  years and you make fun of those people [TS]

  right but at some point they'll be right [TS]

  because it's not apple have all the [TS]

  money in the world [TS]

  you literally have no money example at [TS]

  all and it's like Moore's law you can't [TS]

  you can't keep doubling forever because [TS]

  eventually you will have all the monies [TS]

  RX ponder this week is Squarespace start [TS]

  building your website today at [TS]

  squarespace.com enter offer code ATP at [TS]

  checkout to get ten percent off [TS]

  Squarespace build it beautiful now look [TS]

  I've built many websites using [TS]

  Squarespace now I've got many websites [TS]

  using other means and Squarespace is by [TS]

  far the easiest way to do it and it is [TS]

  by far the least ongoing hassle and the [TS]

  easiest way to get a lot of advanced [TS]

  functionality up quickly start any [TS]

  website you make today at Squarespace if [TS]

  you have to make something try it there [TS]

  first and see how much you can get done [TS]

  in an hour and you will be shocked how [TS]

  far you get [TS]

  how much functionality it has and how [TS]

  little work you have to do to get there [TS]

  if you're going with it for other people [TS]

  to even better is if someone asked you [TS]

  but actual site for them if you don [TS]

  Squarespace not only can you hand it off [TS]

  to them and say here now you do it you [TS]

  help yourself [TS]

  not only that but if they need more help [TS]

  if they need support if they need any [TS]

  kind of hosting thing or any kind of [TS]

  technical support they asked Squarespace [TS]

  not you you don't support it [TS]

  Squarespace does if that's not a reason [TS]

  to do it I I can't help you if they hate [TS]

  it here making a website for somebody [TS]

  and you want to support yourself every [TS]

  time something has to be changed or [TS]

  something breaks or the help but more [TS]

  power to you that is not me though [TS]

  for me I tell people to build if it's on [TS]

  Squarespace they can usually do it [TS]

  themselves right from the start they use [TS]

  a slight push me and say here try this [TS]

  so that's what I advise all of you try [TS]

  making a site on Squarespace to make a [TS]

  website given our CFR you get and I bet [TS]

  you will stick with it and just leave it [TS]

  there because then you're done and you [TS]

  can move on to do anything else with [TS]

  your life [TS]

  check it out today squarespace.com to [TS]

  start your free trial site there's no [TS]

  credit card required to do a free trial [TS]

  Squarespace squarespace.com start a free [TS]

  trial and make a site if you like it [TS]

  please make sure to use the offer code [TS]

  ATP when you sign up to get ten percent [TS]

  off your first purchase once again its [TS]

  code ATP and sign up to get ten percent [TS]

  off your first purchase Squarespace [TS]

  build a beautiful [TS]

  what I found interesting about this is [TS]

  that the ipads are down and down fairly [TS]

  big [TS]

  which in and of itself and we have [TS]

  already covered that but having just [TS]

  gotten a new ipad and now being able to [TS]

  unlock if you will all the multitasking [TS]

  features in iOS 9 I have fallen in love [TS]

  with my ipad again and i know that a lot [TS]

  of our friends even let in ones like my [TS]

  curly who were kind of aggressively [TS]

  anti-pattern very recently are now [TS]

  falling in love with her iPad pros so [TS]

  what gives am i weird in that I really [TS]

  love my ipad mini and is Mike weird in [TS]

  that he really loves his ipad pro a what [TS]

  what is going on that apparently a lot [TS]

  of people have fallen out of love with [TS]

  the ipad can answer the easy questions [TS]

  for us yes you're both weird but that's [TS]

  not funny got there is a separate thing [TS]

  exactly what i was thinking about this [TS]

  and I think like now that we have a nice [TS]

  shape to this graph and now you can [TS]

  clearly see that it's like this [TS]

  enough time has passed we could be like [TS]

  it's not replacement cycle it's not some [TS]

  other thing that would like it's just [TS]

  basically like this this is starting to [TS]

  take the shape of the other type of [TS]

  devices and I'm although I still totally [TS]

  saw and signed up with the idea of the [TS]

  interface that we all know and love in [TS]

  our phones being eventually being the [TS]

  thing thats the plants will be currently [TS]

  no is the pc whether or not the ipad [TS]

  doesn't i'm not sure but what the way [TS]

  I'm conceptualize the ipad now which I [TS]

  think kind of explains like your case [TS]

  your attitude towards it and Mike's and [TS]

  everything is that currently for now the [TS]

  ipad is a specific product not like the [TS]

  tablet in general the ipad a specific [TS]

  product ID c is to feeling two main [TS]

  roles first it is a rich toddlers toy [TS]

  and because i mean and i'm loving myself [TS]

  in that my kids have iPads there-there [TS]

  the kids rich people write in general [TS]

  like I most of the people i know who [TS]

  live in a similar place that I do have [TS]

  suburban lies professional jobs they [TS]

  have ipads think of to the kids [TS]

  sometimes their hand-me-down iPads or [TS]

  whatever but just like I CLI pads that [TS]

  are used by kids right so it is it and I [TS]

  say toddlers because once the kids all [TS]

  they want to phone right [TS]

  yep and that's that's obviously you know [TS]

  that's everything any [TS]

  other thing the ipad is is to you Steve [TS]

  Jobs province [TS]

  it's a truck the ipad has the truck of [TS]

  the world of you know iOS and touch [TS]

  devices or whatever [TS]

  most people don't need a truck most [TS]

  people get away with the car which is [TS]

  called the phone that does everything [TS]

  they could possibly need but some people [TS]

  the weird people need a truck not just [TS]

  add pros the truck but the entire ipad [TS]

  line is now revealing itself as the [TS]

  truck was everyone else is saying you [TS]

  know what the phone is fine [TS]

  the phone is all I need phone does [TS]

  everything i want and then in the other [TS]

  realm that you could say it's not a rich [TS]

  tell their story what about the non-rich [TS]

  toddlers I think tablet still have a [TS]

  role for you know for everybody for [TS]

  little kids in particular this is a [TS]

  great that's like you know a great [TS]

  little child's toy but this is my cheap [TS]

  android tablets they can watch youtube I [TS]

  think like if i replace my kids iPads [TS]

  with like $99 android tablets just [TS]

  played youtube they will be mostly [TS]

  satisfied like that's mostly what they [TS]

  do with it is used to watch youtube [TS]

  doesn't take too much to run youtube so [TS]

  in the current the current life of the [TS]

  ipad product line they seem like you [TS]

  know a a product that is as a much much [TS]

  narrower appeal then the phone and [TS]

  that's what they're really competing [TS]

  with is the phone not the laptop at this [TS]

  point or whatever so it in that light [TS]

  I think it's a good move for Apple to [TS]

  finally gotten off its button down the [TS]

  ipad pro which by the way doesn't factor [TS]

  at all these results and I wouldn't [TS]

  expect them to move [TS]

  I mean factor somebody like the ipad pro [TS]

  came at the tail end of the results that [TS]

  we're looking at right here but it's not [TS]

  that's not a mainstream product right [TS]

  it's never you know so anyway the ipad [TS]

  is going to be a truck make a better [TS]

  track for crying out loud right you know [TS]

  what I mean that's I mean like you know [TS]

  the in the in the original analogy the [TS]

  pc or that you know that like that the [TS]

  the computer was the truck and the you [TS]

  know iOS devices were the cars and I [TS]

  think like I think the pc still is the [TS]

  truck and the ipad is like the maybe the [TS]

  El Camino or like that whatever that [TS]

  well that's your room half truck thing [TS]

  oh god I know exactly what you think [TS]

  about by can I can't place the Baja [TS]

  that's it is yes it's like it's not even [TS]

  it's neither a great car nor a great [TS]

  truck it's it's kind of in the middle [TS]

  there do it there's maybe there's a [TS]

  reason why the El Camino is not made [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  the subaru baja is not is not the most [TS]

  popular car I had nobody looks at the [TS]

  subaru baja and said this is the future [TS]

  of cars you know the same way like [TS]

  everyone looks at the ipad and says this [TS]

  is the future of computing but it is [TS]

  what it is like a totally is like yet no [TS]

  it totally is i mean we we have borne [TS]

  out one way when they said that they [TS]

  mean like us like that a thing that is [TS]

  not a PC because it's totally not a pc [TS]

  right that you interact with mostly by [TS]

  touching and it is the future of [TS]

  computing because that's what everybody [TS]

  does it but it's also that they do it on [TS]

  their phone it's like always the tablet [TS]

  separate thing for the phone or is it [TS]

  just the same exact thing as the phone [TS]

  to get a bigger size and it is but it's [TS]

  like why would you think that bigger [TS]

  size so most people don't most people [TS]

  especially the big honkin phones most [TS]

  people that's all they're ever gonna [TS]

  need like the pc is still this separate [TS]

  separate thing but if you just set aside [TS]

  the pc entirely and just look at the [TS]

  computers that most people use for that [TS]

  person their personal computers are [TS]

  their smartphones at this point and why [TS]

  would you ever need one that's bigger [TS]

  than your big phone [TS]

  well that's kind of like the truck of [TS]

  the of the phone were like if you [TS]

  pretend pcs don't exist which basically [TS]

  as far as my kids are concerned they [TS]

  might as well not exist like so many [TS]

  kids like like your parents have a [TS]

  computer but why would you like I'm [TS]

  waiting to see if my kids will ever ask [TS]

  to have their own computer they asked to [TS]

  have their own iOS devices and phones [TS]

  without any prompting very very early [TS]

  none of them even said hey I'd like to [TS]

  have my own computer because the [TS]

  computer is something that your parents [TS]

  you so it's categorically different [TS]

  that's why I'm refocusing and saying now [TS]

  forget about that crap that your parents [TS]

  use that you don't understand that in [TS]

  some other room has this thing attached [TS]

  to it with a with or without a wire and [TS]

  think about your world of computing [TS]

  which is a bunch of these screens most [TS]

  of them are like I just want to phone I [TS]

  can talk my friends I can I can watch [TS]

  youtube videos I guess music I'm good to [TS]

  go right and maybe i'll go into my [TS]

  parents room to type the papers or [TS]

  whatever but sometimes they might want [TS]

  something bigger to do more truck like [TS]

  things and i'm not entirely sure that [TS]

  this upcoming generation is going to [TS]

  occur to them immediately to sail now [TS]

  any DPC rather they might say I have [TS]

  weird needs so I want one of those big [TS]

  fancy iPads now that the subaru is the [TS]

  by that was the brat but anyway that [TS]

  they're they're both true the brad is [TS]

  the very old one which is actually what [TS]

  i was thinking of in the Baja the newer [TS]

  one is actually called the brat [TS]

  yes they read [TS]

  it's written on the side of it was great [TS]

  we're a little like a c-pillar [TS]

  equivalent on the pickup truck hybrid [TS]

  thing can't imagine why they changed it [TS]

  yeah but like the reason that i think is [TS]

  apt is because we all recognize that the [TS]

  ipad is not a great truck and yeah I Pad [TS]

  Pro is a step in the right direction to [TS]

  say give us an even bigger screen gives [TS]

  a stylist make more room for the [TS]

  multitasking stuff that you've added [TS]

  right it's a baby step in the right [TS]

  direction to really being like if you're [TS]

  gonna go truck go all the way but even [TS]

  if they succeed in that endeavor even if [TS]

  they say oh now the ipad is the truck of [TS]

  the new family of computing devices [TS]

  because this entire family collectively [TS]

  as the future of computing and some [TS]

  people need to do fancy stuff like say [TS]

  run xcode on their iPad or wherever [TS]

  they're going to be doing 10 years in [TS]

  outright does that suddenly means this [TS]

  ipad sales curve that we see making a [TS]

  big humping on talent was gonna reverse [TS]

  know because most people don't need [TS]

  trucks like nothing nothing can save the [TS]

  truck from being the truck nothing can [TS]

  save the computer that most people don't [TS]

  need nothing is ever going to make the [TS]

  mac pro like sell like the iphone [TS]

  nothing is ever going to hockey stick [TS]

  any of these things up and so for now [TS]

  for the ipad product specifically just [TS]

  use pogo stick as a verb [TS]

  that's right I did it it's a [TS]

  well-established have on the show my god [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  nothing is going to change the the [TS]

  inherent nature of of that the and even [TS]

  even the pc is like what if i pass [TS]

  replace all the pcs go look at the pc [TS]

  trendlines those aren't great either the [TS]

  only thing that is going that has been [TS]

  going upward like a hockey stick has [TS]

  been the phone and even the phone is [TS]

  loving off a little bit at a certain [TS]

  point and the reason the phone is [TS]

  leveling off I feel like not that Apple [TS]

  specifically but eventually with [TS]

  everybody eventually there's only a [TS]

  certain number of phones you can sell in [TS]

  the world once every single human [TS]

  everything human alive babies adults [TS]

  everybody has a smartphone then you're [TS]

  just fighting over how many you know [TS]

  they're just fighting of who gets this [TS]

  album right so you can have a hundred [TS]

  percent market share I cell phones every [TS]

  single human alive in the planet but [TS]

  you're never gonna get more than that [TS]

  right so eventually all these curves [TS]

  have to level off and smartphone really [TS]

  is a type of product that can have that [TS]

  kind of penetration so I when I look at [TS]

  the ipad curve and I see it going down [TS]

  and I see the phone leveling off the [TS]

  phone is like well Apple you gotta [TS]

  compete with the other phones that are [TS]

  out there to make sure you maintain your [TS]

  market share in the ipad i just feel [TS]

  like it is slowly growing in [TS]

  it's destiny as the truck of the new [TS]

  world of computing but I just just like [TS]

  it should be a better truck i agree with [TS]

  some of what you just said but I i just [TS]

  i see a better future for the pc than [TS]

  that I think you do and a lot of people [TS]

  do and you and again I think you're [TS]

  right it's not going to be it's not [TS]

  going to really go up from from where it [TS]

  has been you know I i think it's gonna [TS]

  go down a little bit and then just kind [TS]

  of level off at some point where like [TS]

  the pc really is the general utility [TS]

  computing device and and that is [TS]

  incredibly powerful and there are so [TS]

  many things that you know we we can all [TS]

  call them edge cases we can we can say [TS]

  like you know like you like you look at [TS]

  you look at so much of of what iOS [TS]

  devices can't do and so many of them [TS]

  seem like well almost no one needs that [TS]

  and that's true but almost everyone [TS]

  needs like one of those things and it's [TS]

  kind of like that the world of of people [TS]

  who need computing computing tasks or or [TS]

  abilities that the iOS devices and and [TS]

  that that worldview of computing can't [TS]

  address is a pretty big group of people [TS]

  so i think the computer will always be [TS]

  relevant in the same way like Microsoft [TS]

  has always been relevant they used to be [TS]

  dominant and the only game in town and [TS]

  now Microsoft is this kind of like [TS]

  mostly ignored boring company that no [TS]

  one talks about but that still has a [TS]

  great business and still you know very [TS]

  useful to a lot of people no one we [TS]

  talked about microsoft but their stuff [TS]

  is still very very popular it's [TS]

  financially seemingly ok and the end [TS]

  like a lot of people relying on stuff [TS]

  together worked on and i think that the [TS]

  pc in general whether it's windows or [TS]

  mac and I don't make that distinction [TS]

  right now I like the pc in general is so [TS]

  general purpose it is so capable [TS]

  it is so unbounded by so many of the [TS]

  restrictions that modern mobile devices [TS]

  have it both physical and software [TS]

  restrictions there is always going to be [TS]

  a market for a more customizable more [TS]

  open architecture more like hardware [TS]

  diversity kind of platform because [TS]

  there's always going to be edge cases [TS]

  and as these mobile devices get smaller [TS]

  simpler more lockdown fewer ports [TS]

  everybody come on you know if you like [TS]

  all the all the stuff that we celebrate [TS]

  as consumers as like oh wow this is [TS]

  great is getting thinner and lighter and [TS]

  and everything is even more lockdown was [TS]

  before thanks a lot like this all that [TS]

  is very powerful in certain ways and if [TS]

  you're making something that's going to [TS]

  sell as many units as possible to as [TS]

  many people as possible that is a good [TS]

  way to do it and that's that's going to [TS]

  keep working i always say never bet [TS]

  against the smartphone's very powerful [TS]

  but i don't think that has to come at [TS]

  the expense of the entire pc business it [TS]

  will come at the expense of some of the [TS]

  pc business but again I don't think like [TS]

  not a lot of people are saying you know [TS]

  what I don't even need of computer [TS]

  anymore i'm just going to use my phone [TS]

  for everything [TS]

  some people say that with the ipad and [TS]

  so the ipad is certainly more of a [TS]

  threat than the phone is but i think [TS]

  it's much more likely that like the [TS]

  people who are still using PC's today [TS]

  even when good tablets are available i I [TS]

  don't see a whole ton of them making [TS]

  that jump if they haven't already know [TS]

  what those people died i guess that's [TS]

  the way it works those people died and [TS]

  the people who were formerly using PC's [TS]

  like we're waiting for maybe not the [TS]

  ipad specifically but tablets in general [TS]

  the idea that something without the the [TS]

  paradigms and the complexities that we [TS]

  currently associated with the personal [TS]

  computers that tablets can eventually [TS]

  replace them and that maybe eventually [TS]

  the things that we think of as tablets [TS]

  now will eventually be called pcs that [TS]

  to distinguish them from the phones but [TS]

  they won't because they won't be running [TS]

  windows are running OS 10 they won't [TS]

  have that they won't have like discs [TS]

  that you mount and volumes and expose [TS]

  file systems and all the things that we [TS]

  associate with personal computing now I [TS]

  like that's why I'm starting its do [TS]

  important to differentiate between the [TS]

  ipad is a product which apple may never [TS]

  get their act together on right and the [TS]

  tablet is a whole the idea that a future [TS]

  computing device should be more [TS]

  appliance like and probably also mobile [TS]

  visiting with the moore's law stuff like [TS]

  having lots of headroom to put powerful [TS]

  he hungry things and there is fine but [TS]

  at a certain point you can't like a [TS]

  certain point we need another [TS]

  technological breakthrough to think [TS]

  we compute and if we can't do that then [TS]

  you just basically say well the fastest [TS]

  cpu and the entire world that's in a [TS]

  battery-powered device and we haven't [TS]

  figured out how to make faster because [TS]

  we have very bad into quantum computers [TS]

  or optical computing or anything yet so [TS]

  in the meantime enjoy your quote-unquote [TS]

  pc which is basically a big honkin [TS]

  tablet because that's what are the two [TS]

  generations of children know how to use [TS]

  and they have no idea what the hell [TS]

  you're doing with that freaking mouth I [TS]

  just want to touch the screen right so [TS]

  whether Apple is the one that does that [TS]

  to somebody else long-term after we're [TS]

  all dead [TS]

  i think the the total market for people [TS]

  who need to computing besides using the [TS]

  appliances in their home and their phone [TS]

  will probably about the similar size of [TS]

  the quote-unquote pc market today but i [TS]

  would expect tablets to slowly [TS]

  cannibalize that but maybe the whole [TS]

  line on the graph stays about the same [TS]

  while above it floats all the other [TS]

  mass-market devices but that's that's [TS]

  where the tablets are battling down [TS]

  there with the pcs who is going to who [TS]

  is going to be to get these people who [TS]

  need more than a phone can do their job [TS]

  who who's going to serve them and right [TS]

  now it's the mac vs windows computers [TS]

  versus a whole panoply of tablets vs [TS]

  surface vs chromebook sources you know [TS]

  all these things that are like pcs and [TS]

  post pcs battling and I just have to [TS]

  give the edge to the ones with less [TS]

  legacy crap that are more understandable [TS]

  for people to use even if right now [TS]

  they're just not powerful enough as we [TS]

  talked about the last show to actually [TS]

  replace those i think i think we'll be [TS]

  gone by the time it happens by just look [TS]

  at my kids and my kids kids having a [TS]

  television is gonna be I can't even [TS]

  think of a good analogy but it's just [TS]

  it's going to seem like having like a a [TS]

  plow in your backyard to tell the fields [TS]

  i don't know it seemed the same same but [TS]

  you know I agree with you John more than [TS]

  I do Marco that I think that the pc as [TS]

  we know it again like Marco said Mac or [TS]

  PC that the personal computers we know [TS]

  it is not terribly long for this world [TS]

  for almost everyone and i agree John [TS]

  that the future is going to be touched [TS]

  the futures or you know something after [TS]

  touch or VR writing or Bihar well i [TS]

  think the future is not the this [TS]

  beautiful new imac that i just bought [TS]

  myself but what I'm where I'm having [TS]

  trouble is why then is the ipad so [TS]

  sharply down like I understand what [TS]

  you're saying is powerful [TS]

  if it's not doing enough right now but [TS]

  she's if the IP it really is the futures [TS]

  truck [TS]

  don't you think it would at least [TS]

  maintain or not have such a stark [TS]

  downward slope now because i think that [TS]

  misfired on the ipad i think i think [TS]

  they they thought things were further [TS]

  along than they were and so there was [TS]

  the initial burst of like a this is the [TS]

  future everyone's going to love it and I [TS]

  never realized you know what i can do [TS]

  all the same stuff on my phone [TS]

  especially when the phones got bigger [TS]

  and more powerful than was like oh well [TS]

  nevermind just get those ones to the [TS]

  kids like it sits like a burst of [TS]

  enthusiasm followed by the realization [TS]

  that it does not provide enough [TS]

  additional value and so that's that's [TS]

  why I feel like it's tapering off [TS]

  well I think there's I mean there's a [TS]

  number of factors here first of all I [TS]

  think that the the value of a tablet in [TS]

  general if you use it for productivity [TS]

  tasks then the the ipad is is very [TS]

  competitive but i think what most people [TS]

  use tablets for is entertainment and i [TS]

  think i'm not saying you can't do work [TS]

  on ipad but i think a lot of people i [TS]

  think the market bears that out that a [TS]

  lot of people use their tablets [TS]

  primarily for entertainment purposes and [TS]

  if you're doing that there's a lot less [TS]

  reason to get specifically an ipad over [TS]

  any other tablet out there and there's [TS]

  tablets you know its cost nothing [TS]

  expenses at tablets are cheaper than [TS]

  like gasps big if you can put if you can [TS]

  play play flappy bird and you can watch [TS]

  youtube videos like yet cover you know [TS]

  you can play a couple of really simple [TS]

  games and watch YouTube as far as my [TS]

  kids are concerned it would be like [TS]

  indistinguishable from an ipad because [TS]

  they are not using any of the ipad eNOS [TS]

  of the ipad they're just literally [TS]

  watching YouTube forever and then [TS]

  playing a couple games [TS]

  exactly so that's problem number one [TS]

  that has is that like in phones i think [TS]

  what people tend to use phones for kids [TS]

  are a different story and and I i do [TS]

  want to separately address that you know [TS]

  John you you and and many other people [TS]

  make predictions about the future pcs [TS]

  being dead because their kids don't ever [TS]

  want to use a pc but a lot of people are [TS]

  making that assumption on based on kids [TS]

  who are I think too young to make that [TS]

  determination because like if you think [TS]

  about the kind of things that has really [TS]

  good at the kind of things computers [TS]

  really good at ipad isn't very good at [TS]

  the overlap [TS]

  between like what most kids used to use [TS]

  computers for which is a lot of [TS]

  entertainment stuff and like some very [TS]

  light browsing and light work like that [TS]

  kind of stuff you can do i have had much [TS]

  better but that's not to say like what [TS]

  if your kid starts wanting to like be [TS]

  productive in different like [TS]

  multitasking kind of ways think things [TS]

  that you can do on the ipad but it's [TS]

  easier or better on a computer or if [TS]

  they develop a hobby of like you know [TS]

  what I want to try programming that's [TS]

  hard to do one right again not [TS]

  impossible but hard and sometimes aren't [TS]

  possible and so far but you know they're [TS]

  there are things that like as kids get [TS]

  older if they want to type a type of [TS]

  paper for school or whatever like you [TS]

  yes you can do it on ipad but in many [TS]

  ways it's easier on a computer and you [TS]

  haven't met any kids who prefer using [TS]

  the keyboard on a screen a physical one [TS]

  have you met those kids yet because they [TS]

  exist you know I know they exist but [TS]

  terrifying [TS]

  what I'm saying is I don't think we can [TS]

  make the call to say kids these days are [TS]

  going to ever use computers because i [TS]

  think his these days are too young to [TS]

  know that everything's computers and for [TS]

  us to know that well I mean it takes it [TS]

  takes multiple generations they were [TS]

  just like it takes multiple generations [TS]

  for turnover like I said we were all [TS]

  going to be that maybe our kids will be [TS]

  dead because it's the same way that like [TS]

  you still do things that your parents do [TS]

  just because your parents didn't like it [TS]

  takes a while to turn over but I the [TS]

  options available you said the options [TS]

  available to them let like my kids are [TS]

  all in a house with plenty of Max and [TS]

  plenty of iOS devices and the only [TS]

  reason they ever touch the max is to [TS]

  play Minecraft on a bigger screen and [TS]

  maybe that's a valid use cases like all [TS]

  see they like they like the big screen [TS]

  but if I had my playstation attached to [TS]

  the television that probably played [TS]

  their the controller i don't know anyway [TS]

  as we can see from the ipad curve i [TS]

  think the current crop of tablets ipad [TS]

  and always included are not yet up to [TS]

  the task of doing things of the cases so [TS]

  the kids have to type papers they do end [TS]

  up using it or like using Chromebooks [TS]

  and school or something like that and [TS]

  the microwave services another take on [TS]

  this is like hey we're both things at [TS]

  one where the old computer and the new [TS]

  computer the same time that definitely [TS]

  seems like a transitional fossil to me [TS]

  but what I'm looking at long-term is [TS]

  like we're not there yet but that seems [TS]

  the direction things are going and it [TS]

  only takes a couple of generations of [TS]

  people dying [TS]

  before all these concerns that we have [TS]

  on someone listens to this podcast like [TS]

  a hundred years from now it will seem [TS]

  ridiculous that we even debating this in [TS]

  the same way they would seem ridiculous [TS]

  of something if you're listening to [TS]

  people debate about whether you know [TS]

  people actually be able to use a [TS]

  computer with the mouse to the real work [TS]

  i mean i was alive for that debate and [TS]

  it was fierce and and people were like [TS]

  you included in the same things like [TS]

  well my kids been born into a world with [TS]

  mice and they're going to only use [TS]

  myself when i get a job they'll have to [TS]

  use a computer without a mouse to do [TS]

  actual work because the only computer [TS]

  that miser toy computers [TS]

  that's just the way things go like so it [TS]

  maybe it's a it's a pointless thing to [TS]

  even talk about because of all dead do [TS]

  we really care that much but i think [TS]

  it's interesting in light of this ipad [TS]

  graph because it's like the it's the [TS]

  future that we think is coming but the [TS]

  graph shows that it's not here yet and [TS]

  what the graph may also show is that [TS]

  Apple may not be the company to to nail [TS]

  it because this was their shot and [TS]

  either they were too early or they just [TS]

  they just fumbled the ball and didn't [TS]

  you know I didn't hit the mark with [TS]

  their first attempt this type of product [TS]

  and you know as we keep saying we're [TS]

  basically you know totally outplayed by [TS]

  their star product the iphone which [TS]

  their star product the iphone which [TS]

  everyone has basically voted with their [TS]

  wallets Neffe to say this is what we [TS]

  want right now [TS]

  ipads you know convinces later maybe [TS]

  I'll because like at the same time that [TS]

  the ipad has been you know going along [TS]

  and and getting into improving every [TS]

  generation the iphone has gotten better [TS]

  and bigger and the mac has gotten [TS]

  smaller and lighter and so it's it [TS]

  really is being squeezed on both ends if [TS]

  you if you're willing to carry something [TS]

  now especially with the macbook one only [TS]

  a little bit bigger than ipad then if [TS]

  you if you need keyboard and touch input [TS]

  and a pc style OS the macbook one is [TS]

  going to be better for you than an ipad [TS]

  even an ipad pro at that kind of task on [TS]

  the lower on the small and if you need a [TS]

  portable entertainment and consumption [TS]

  and communication kind of device an [TS]

  iphone is now you know able to take a [TS]

  lot of that and especially with the six [TS]

  plus line it's taking even more of a [TS]

  potentially and cuz that's has the [TS]

  benefit of its always in your pocket is [TS]

  always with you and you probably paid [TS]

  less for it up front then you would [TS]

  refer not always always benefits so it's [TS]

  being squeezed on both sides then it's [TS]

  being squeezed from the bottom with the [TS]

  low end because all these cheaper [TS]

  tablets that also can play youtube and [TS]

  play some games and browse the web all [TS]

  those cheaper tablets are coming and [TS]

  eating the whole bottom end of it so [TS]

  it's it's being attacked on so many [TS]

  fronts and you know the good thing is [TS]

  two of his friends are owned by apple [TS]

  and so you know it being cannibalized by [TS]

  other parts of Apple so it's not [TS]

  necessarily a horrible thing for Apple [TS]

  but I think I I don't see a way out of [TS]

  this for the ipad anytime soon I may be [TS]

  long-term maybe you're right you might [TS]

  be right long-term I'll give you that [TS]

  but in in the near-term the things that [TS]

  tend to improve quickly and relatively [TS]

  in computing is like you know that the [TS]

  basic hardware specs the speed the the [TS]

  you know the quality of like the screen [TS]

  and stuff like that like that stuff [TS]

  improves in the short-term the biggest [TS]

  challenges to the ipad i think are [TS]

  pretty deeply rooted software [TS]

  architecture and software limitations [TS]

  and input both of which are not [TS]

  it's also quickly and easily so I i [TS]

  don't think you like to talk about like [TS]

  how how iOS could get better for [TS]

  productivity use this it's things like [TS]

  it'sit's things like rethink [TS]

  multitasking and files and hits like [TS]

  those are big things those take years to [TS]

  to possibly develop or 2222 realize that [TS]

  you need to rethink if you do that's a [TS]

  very slow-moving thing and then input is [TS]

  oftentimes not solvable like there just [TS]

  isn't a way to make like a nine inch [TS]

  laptop with a keyboard that humans can [TS]

  use comfortably you like this like [TS]

  there's like there's limitations like [TS]

  that where you're just fighting physics [TS]

  and you know the physical world and you [TS]

  just can't win those fights a lot of [TS]

  times and tablets certainly are [TS]

  challenging in in regards to have him [TS]

  how to fix input how to make input that [TS]

  is that is good for both casual lean [TS]

  back on the couch use and also [TS]

  productivity use and that is a very hard [TS]

  problem it might not be possible to [TS]

  solve and it's the kind of thing where [TS]

  progress is made very slowly if at all [TS]

  now you're talking about cannibalization [TS]

  and thats enough thats a the other [TS]

  takeaway of this thing is like when you [TS]

  look at these little lines like you look [TS]

  at that ipod hump it's like here comes [TS]

  the ipod and then it did marks over and [TS]

  then you look at the mac that like every [TS]

  time I try to find this graph but I [TS]

  think someone tweeted and i can't find [TS]

  it but it was a graph over many many [TS]

  years not just like the last five or ten [TS]

  years but like from the nineties all the [TS]

  way up to the current time and you look [TS]

  at the products and it's like a little [TS]

  fireworks like the ipod launches up into [TS]

  the sky not to higher than its the [TS]

  ground again right and the ipad launches [TS]

  up into the sky and is arcing over to [TS]

  starting to be on its way down again you [TS]

  look at the phone and if the iphone goes [TS]

  like an stratosphere with and eventually [TS]

  starts leveling off right and so you [TS]

  can't see the other side of that things [TS]

  are the only line and the entire graph [TS]

  that is basically has any kind of you [TS]

  know uphill slope for the entire length [TS]

  of it is the mac and it's like way down [TS]

  at the bottom kind of blending with with [TS]

  the x-axis you can barely see it but you [TS]

  can see it is little bit higher it does [TS]

  go up over Europe you are tiny little [TS]

  bit and it's insignificant or whatever [TS]

  but it's interesting that that trend [TS]

  line because it because it started off [TS]

  as like the loser in the pc market so it [TS]

  never had a lot of money [TS]

  never had a high to come down from and [TS]

  it has been steadily gaining on you know [TS]

  has been gaining market share while [TS]

  windows loses it whatever so it does [TS]

  have a good graph you know an uphill [TS]

  climb even though it's insignificant but [TS]

  we look at all those other things what [TS]

  Apple is hoping for when you mentioned [TS]

  is alright so Apple makes products that [TS]

  make these little arcs right every [TS]

  product has a lifetime the iphone arc [TS]

  doesn't seem like it's even half over [TS]

  maybe it's exactly half over right maybe [TS]

  you would extend that graph out however [TS]

  optimistic and pessimistic you want to [TS]

  be about the iphone arc you draw that [TS]

  what you need is another lump you need [TS]

  another big arch in that thing [TS]

  so what is the new product that is going [TS]

  to come like the watches invisible [TS]

  because it's to know so who knows what [TS]

  that's gonna be like but apples whole [TS]

  thing is what is the next big thing what [TS]

  is the next line is going to be on our [TS]

  graph maybe i will never grow up as high [TS]

  as the phone or whatever maybe we will [TS]

  maybe some be our thing out there maybe [TS]

  it's the car if you want to do revenue [TS]

  because a lot of people have cars and [TS]

  they cost a lot more than a mac or phone [TS]

  so the ESPYs really good on cars but the [TS]

  margins are much lower you know so I [TS]

  don't know what it is but like that's [TS]

  that's one of the reasons that investors [TS]

  are cranky about Apple because they look [TS]

  at all these lines and see all these [TS]

  little arcs and like all right well I [TS]

  think we've played this out and we feel [TS]

  pessimistically that the iphone is at [TS]

  its peak and how it's gonna go down [TS]

  so where is the next arc apple and right [TS]

  now there is no convincing answer and [TS]

  it's apples job to complement like and i [TS]

  agree with you the ipad pro is not going [TS]

  to turn the ipad thing around cause even [TS]

  if if professionals love the ipad pro [TS]

  there's not a lot of them right so you [TS]

  have to either let the ipad arc follow [TS]

  its course down to the baseline and [TS]

  start again within the tablets product [TS]

  or you need to somehow transform the mac [TS]

  into a tablet is product I don't know [TS]

  how you do that like just you know [TS]

  semantically how you could ever get [TS]

  that's why I still feel like the ipad [TS]

  must rise again in a new form some point [TS]

  in the future or if not then maybe Apple [TS]

  losses that someone else does it right [TS]

  maybe you know who knows what ends up [TS]

  winning this but I just feel confident [TS]

  that the pc is the past and we are the [TS]

  left the last great pc generation is [TS]

  already alive of people i mean well it [TS]

  it also you know a lot of a lot of [TS]

  people like in our in our walk of life [TS]

  here and by that I mean geeks like us a [TS]

  lot of geeks just deny the role of [TS]

  fashion and trends in things and you [TS]

  know we try to make everything more [TS]

  logical we try to justify things and and [TS]

  and we don't understand fashions for [TS]

  fads really what if tablets have been a [TS]

  fat i know this is crazy i know this [TS]

  sounds like the the champion of the [TS]

  computer trying to optimistically say [TS]

  that the tablet or just a fad and [TS]

  computers are going to come back you [TS]

  know so that i know this sounds crazy [TS]

  and i'm not even said I'm not even [TS]

  saying I believe this but I think it's [TS]

  worth thinking about you're not you're [TS]

  not saying computers are going to come [TS]

  back [TS]

  are you just saying tablets are fast two [TS]

  separate things right right so I i think [TS]

  it's worth considering though what if [TS]

  the entire idea of tablets had their [TS]

  peak already and that you know in the [TS]

  future like the kind of casual the the [TS]

  future of computing was already here [TS]

  earlier than that it's the mobile phone [TS]

  is the smartphone and and that you know [TS]

  what if that is really the future and [TS]

  the tablets were just kind of this thing [TS]

  that for a brief time the whole world [TS]

  was kind of like in love with it kind of [TS]

  infatuated with but it was actually just [TS]

  a fad and now we're kind of Rosings and [TS]

  you know what I think I'd rather just [TS]

  have a good phone and then maybe a good [TS]

  laptop also alright I've considered and [TS]

  rejected that's fair but but i think a [TS]

  lot of people are not considering that [TS]

  as a possibility but i think i think the [TS]

  data actually like if you look at this [TS]

  ipad sales graph that looks exactly like [TS]

  what's going on but that but that's just [TS]

  the ipad that's why keep differentiating [TS]

  like there's the ipad which may be a [TS]

  blue it on and then there's the concept [TS]

  of a screen about the size of a piece of [TS]

  paper or bigger that you hold in your [TS]

  hands and i would even including tablets [TS]

  the screen that's much bigger than a [TS]

  piece of paper like the ipad [TS]

  bro that you hold in your hand right or [TS]

  even a bigger thing that sits on your [TS]

  desk i would say is basically a big [TS]

  piece of glass that you touch dead [TS]

  extends down into the portable range but [TS]

  I've always said i can imagine a desktop [TS]

  replacement that is like more like a [TS]

  drafting table and just the utility of [TS]

  essentially having a magic piece of [TS]

  paper that can show anything that is [TS]

  piece of paper size like what's that [TS]

  becomes like ninety-nine cents like that [TS]

  did the computing part of that is so you [TS]

  know again as the price of compute drops [TS]

  to 0 of course people are gonna want [TS]

  that people want to hold things in their [TS]

  hand and read them and look at them and [TS]

  watch a video and maybe that won't be an [TS]

  ipad anymore maybe it'll be something [TS]

  that comes in your cereal box that you [TS]

  unroll and it's like there's no and you [TS]

  say oh that's not a tablet it is though [TS]

  it's like basically a screen that you [TS]

  hold in your hand is way bigger than a [TS]

  phone and that is absolutely not going [TS]

  to die whether Apple has any role at all [TS]

  in that product line remains to be seen [TS]

  which is why i say the ipad is an open [TS]

  question but there's a reason everyone [TS]

  was all gaga like the fat part that I [TS]

  think you're sensing about tablets was [TS]

  like oh this is like the science fiction [TS]

  books i read this is like those movies i [TS]

  saw its like the future like how many [TS]

  movies had no you just hold this magic [TS]

  even before you know flat-screens [TS]

  existed when everything was all CRT's [TS]

  every science fiction story you know [TS]

  back hundreds of years like oh I just [TS]

  hold something that looks like a piece [TS]

  of paper but I can show them any image [TS]

  anywhere i can see anywhere in the world [TS]

  and I can watch moving pictures on that [TS]

  idea is never going away because it has [TS]

  amazing utility for people like us who [TS]

  have eyeballs in the front of her head [TS]

  and hands that we can hold things up [TS]

  with like it's you know unless vr [TS]

  retinal imaging or other any sort of [TS]

  like interior mind type thing happens or [TS]

  scrapped your eyes thing until that [TS]

  comes and wipes all this away having [TS]

  something big that you hold in your hand [TS]

  that is a screen that idea it will never [TS]

  die because it has such amazing utility [TS]

  it just could be that Apple is not the [TS]

  company that he brings that to us [TS]

  benefits from it or like it gets it [TS]

  right because if you just play out [TS]

  current trends eventually what will it [TS]

  take to have something that to give your [TS]

  toddler to watch whatever the equivalent [TS]

  of YouTube is right maybe that'll be a [TS]

  dollar ninety-nine in a drugstore that's [TS]

  a rolled-up piece of plastic that the [TS]

  kid can just do anything they want to [TS]

  when i get somebody gets destroyed us [TS]

  throw it away right because seriously [TS]

  the the electronics the cost of the [TS]

  electronics and everything to sort of [TS]

  get into [TS]

  and access and play video and stuff [TS]

  that's going to in our lifetimes be so [TS]

  incredibly trivial little bit nothing [TS]

  you know I was going to ask you [TS]

  John what what would make the ipad you [TS]

  know cross that hump in and be the thing [TS]

  or burst any tablet but and I think it [TS]

  just just covered in a lot of ways but I [TS]

  was thinking you know when I got my [TS]

  first ipad mini so this is two years ago [TS]

  now the the ipad mini with retina [TS]

  display i had given air in my ipad3 so [TS]

  the first full-size iPad with Retina [TS]

  display and I given to our night set it [TS]

  up with her iCloud account and I message [TS]

  account and you know some of the apps i [TS]

  thought she would use a lot and I gave [TS]

  it to her and I think in those two years [TS]

  she is used that ipad 5 or 10 times [TS]

  because it always ends up that she's [TS]

  either what she starts with her phone [TS]

  almost always everything she does is on [TS]

  her phone and then if for some reason [TS]

  something she's working on it is easier [TS]

  or just better suited for the truck for [TS]

  her mac then she'll go to her macbook [TS]

  air and do that thing there but [TS]

  generally speaking for Aaron it's her [TS]

  phone and the ipad isn't even a thought [TS]

  in fact most of the last two years the [TS]

  battery has been dead because neither of [TS]

  us ever touches it and granted this is [TS]

  only one data point that doesn't exactly [TS]

  make a line by any stretch of the [TS]

  imagination but it's certainly bears [TS]

  what Apple's results are seeing which is [TS]

  that the iphone is going crazy the Mac [TS]

  isn't doing that and the ipad is just [TS]

  not even their well-being like but you [TS]

  know by three fair by like unit sales [TS]

  the ipad in the matter are kind of neck [TS]

  and neck right now but at the trendline [TS]

  is very clear that the ipad is on its [TS]

  way down while the mac is still on its [TS]

  way up [TS]

  yeah barely out of the way I played with [TS]

  dice security and tried to give a bunch [TS]

  of charge that's not the one I was [TS]

  thinking one showed all the lines [TS]

  together all different colors you just [TS]

  saw the only one that was like steadily [TS]

  climbing up like a snail over the course [TS]

  of decades was the mac and it was just [TS]

  like hugging the bottom of the graph [TS]

  totally insignificant volumes compared [TS]

  to the other [TS]

  kharghar products but it's like we're [TS]

  still here still call on our way up like [TS]

  you know that's that's both sad and [TS]

  hardening at the same time and I yeah I [TS]

  what I think about the car and there [TS]

  were some rumors about the car this this [TS]

  week everything I think like is that the [TS]

  next thing that's going to I try to [TS]

  imagine what a car line would look like [TS]

  on this graph like imagine they do as [TS]

  well as Tesla and they sell you know [TS]

  some piddling amount of really expensive [TS]

  cars two people a lot of money and the [TS]

  self-driving stuff doesn't work yet [TS]

  because it's not ready [TS]

  like what cars are really expensive and [TS]

  so the revenues will be high but the [TS]

  margins will necessarily be lower and [TS]

  it's like what does that look like [TS]

  does does the carline look like the ipod [TS]

  line doesn't look that certainly was [TS]

  more like the iphone line because it [TS]

  looks like the mac line where claws its [TS]

  way up or do they just can't the car and [TS]

  it's a bad idea and they should really [TS]

  concentrate on something else like and [TS]

  then the lines we can't even think of [TS]

  the ER is the current ? in the world of [TS]

  like it's something people are going to [TS]

  want to do because at this point the [TS]

  number of people who have done vr stuff [TS]

  is just a bunch of gaming enthusiasts [TS]

  and that will be the case for a long [TS]

  time I don't know what the next big [TS]

  thing I remember several years ago we [TS]

  were talking on the show like maybe the [TS]

  watch is the next big thing [TS]

  maybe it is but if it is definitely got [TS]

  a slower ramp up its as far as we can [TS]

  tell [TS]

  well you know like at this point it's [TS]

  still early right but the watches the [TS]

  next ipod it in the sense that not [TS]

  listen to the ipod like it was gone now [TS]

  but in the sense that like it's an [TS]

  accessory [TS]

  it's something that serves a narrow [TS]

  range of roles very well but not [TS]

  everybody needs the devices for that [TS]

  narrow range of roles and also that is [TS]

  not going to replace your phone [TS]

  yeah i mean like our maybe just [TS]

  wearables in general like it'sit's just [TS]

  it's very difficult to think of [TS]

  something that is ever going to be like [TS]

  the next iPhone because the very thing [TS]

  about a phone is that literally every [TS]

  every adult in the world probably could [TS]

  conceivably use one right and that's a [TS]

  big market now how many products can you [TS]

  say that about maybe cars not really [TS]

  because most people don't have cars in [TS]

  the world have bicycles motorcycles are [TS]

  lucky and you know whatever like you're [TS]

  just trying to think of something that [TS]

  that everybody could find some utility [TS]

  for some values of everybody and it's [TS]

  very difficult to think about a watch [TS]

  is one like well sure of something you [TS]

  hold your wrists and tells you the time [TS]

  that seems like a brother useful thing [TS]

  you could sell a lot of but can someone [TS]

  for that much money and I don't know if [TS]

  you're ever going to be able to sell [TS]

  everybody in the world at 691 dollar [TS]

  which I think was there asking you what [TS]

  I phone 691 dollar watched everyone the [TS]

  world know like somebody just get the [TS]

  high end of the watch market just like [TS]

  they had behind the phone market i don't [TS]

  know i'm i don't know what the next [TS]

  thing for apple is but when i look at [TS]

  these graphs of everyone if i was to [TS]

  continue the x-axis and your girlfriend [TS]

  2016 and extend that out for another 50 [TS]

  years and let me just draw it continue [TS]

  drawing the lines of all their current [TS]

  product lines i see like how optimistic [TS]

  can you be with the iphone like you're [TS]

  going to continue to draw the iphone [TS]

  line you know it looks like it's a big [TS]

  thing goes up up in the slow parts love [TS]

  how do you do that let us draw a [TS]

  straight line and into the future and [TS]

  say well smartphones will continue for [TS]

  the next 50 years pretty much as is or [TS]

  do you make it go up more or do you make [TS]

  it slowly go down like the rest of the [TS]

  things I don't know we also sponsor this [TS]

  week by fracture fracture prints photos [TS]

  in vivid color directly on glass go to [TS]

  fracture me.com and use code ATP 10 to [TS]

  get ten percent off now fracture prints [TS]

  look amazing [TS]

  they are these nice little like squares [TS]

  or rectangles or big if you want to go [TS]

  big go bigger home [TS]

  nice these nice little or big squares [TS]

  where you can close that they offer what [TS]

  options and these prints look great [TS]

  they're modern they're clean they go [TS]

  edge-to-edge they don't need a frame or [TS]

  anything they are their own [TS]

  self-contained thing that they may [TS]

  replace the need for a frame it just [TS]

  looks like a nice modern photo [TS]

  presentation you can hang it on a wall [TS]

  you stand up on a desk they make [TS]

  fantastic gifts and we have them all [TS]

  around the house we've given many of [TS]

  them as gifts as well [TS]

  people love these things they always [TS]

  they always compliment them we always [TS]

  hear about people how much people love [TS]

  them and you can do everything of course [TS]

  online so it'sit's great like if you [TS]

  need last minute gift for somebody you [TS]

  know do it online have it sent to them [TS]

  and and you're all set [TS]

  it's a perfect way to celebrate holidays [TS]

  fun whatever else you know Valentine's [TS]

  Day is coming up you do it for that i [TS]

  really recommend checking out fracture [TS]

  for these beautiful photo prints in [TS]

  vivid color directly on glass and [TS]

  they're all assembled by by hand by the [TS]

  small team in gainesville florida [TS]

  so there's quality checking in [TS]

  everything and is a very very nice human [TS]

  you know small company here you're [TS]

  dealing with some good people over there [TS]

  you can get ten percent off with code [TS]

  ATP 10 just go to fracture me.com to [TS]

  check it out thanks a lot to fracture [TS]

  once again code ATP tend to get ten [TS]

  percent off thanks to fracture for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  alright Marco is the iphone 7 going to [TS]

  be waterproof running a bit long so [TS]

  let's keep it to just that question is [TS]

  going to be waterproof why I mean my we [TS]

  talked about this and I i think the [TS]

  answer i think the answer is probably [TS]

  it'll probably be very close it you know [TS]

  just just like the iphone 6s is very [TS]

  water resistant it is not waterproof but [TS]

  if if you if it happens to get wet [TS]

  bye-bye most people's estimation and [TS]

  some little test here and there it seems [TS]

  to fare better than the other ones [TS]

  it gives water a stern talking to ya [TS]

  because ya know it has extra seals it [TS]

  has like these extra little like little [TS]

  seals like all over all the things on [TS]

  the board and everything and so it is [TS]

  certainly water resistant to some degree [TS]

  it's on advertise this way but it that [TS]

  is how they seem to do it if they drop [TS]

  the headphone jack [TS]

  you know it that might be a reason to to [TS]

  make waterproofness a headlining feature [TS]

  because that might that might help tame [TS]

  some of the anger that will result from [TS]

  losing the headphone jack from from [TS]

  customers so i think it's it's possible [TS]

  I i think the 6s and the watch both show [TS]

  that Apple is and at the watch i think [TS]

  is it is a more interesting example of [TS]

  this because the watch has openings it [TS]

  has a speaker it has a microphone as as [TS]

  the crown to oh yeah right yeah and [TS]

  actually an international watches the [TS]

  crown is usually the hardest part to [TS]

  water prevents its opening with a moving [TS]

  partner and everything anyway so you [TS]

  know you have a date they clearly have [TS]

  the ability to make things that are very [TS]

  water resistant possibly waterproof the [TS]

  only question i think is how waterproof [TS]

  will it be and whether they will [TS]

  advertise this as a feature or whether [TS]

  it just be quietly water resistant to [TS]

  his successes [TS]

  yes that was the question what's your [TS]

  answer right i would say probably too [TS]

  which one of those like that [TS]

  rising over the the fact that will [TS]

  actually be i would say it is very [TS]

  likely that it will be that it will be [TS]

  more water resistant than the success [TS]

  which is already pretty good so I say [TS]

  the the chances of it getting getting [TS]

  more water resistant are very good the [TS]

  chance of the advertising that i would [TS]

  give it maybe like a sixty percent [TS]

  chance they probably will advertise it [TS]

  but not necessarily but i do think if [TS]

  they do actually delete the headphone [TS]

  jack then that would be that would make [TS]

  it more likely that they would advertise [TS]

  that is a feature because that would [TS]

  help justify that decision [TS]

  yeah i think i'm mostly agree like the [TS]

  reason i put this in there is because [TS]

  like electronic devices don't become [TS]

  more water resistant by accident so in [TS]

  the past phones that have been at that [TS]

  Apple seems to have been taking making [TS]

  more of an effort to seal them up [TS]

  getting totally not advertised as you [TS]

  probably shouldn't you know put your [TS]

  phone in water many people killed our [TS]

  phones by putting them in water right [TS]

  but some part of the engineering process [TS]

  of these phones is even if it's not [TS]

  about water maybe just about dust or [TS]

  whatever like they're making an effort [TS]

  to see all these phones up tighter [TS]

  I don't see any reason that effort trend [TS]

  would diminish especially since many of [TS]

  their competitors do try to advertise [TS]

  advertise their phones as waterproof and [TS]

  Apple knows better than anybody how many [TS]

  people drop their phones in the toilet [TS]

  and come into the store said about [TS]

  another whole water resistance for their [TS]

  warranties like they have this info they [TS]

  are trying to make their phones more [TS]

  order system so i think the only [TS]

  question is do they start advertising [TS]

  they're like have they crossed the [TS]

  threshold at which they can start [TS]

  advertising is obviously they know like [TS]

  they're not going to advertise until [TS]

  they can be very sure like they are with [TS]

  the watch like to spec it out and say [TS]

  here's how we think will perform a ball [TS]

  right over even the watch [TS]

  they barely advertise that it's [TS]

  water-resistant everybody's expectations [TS]

  while I get under promise and over [TS]

  deliver the watch because it's like you [TS]

  totally shouldn't put this in the water [TS]

  but realistically speaking it's like and [TS]

  cranberry swimming in the ocean with his [TS]

  like every single week for God's how [TS]

  long like if when he tells us that his [TS]

  watch has been killed by the water them [TS]

  well maybe know that they know what the [TS]

  limits are but seriously like it's [TS]

  basically well you know waterproof [TS]

  enough but they don't say it like you're [TS]

  right they don't say much about it [TS]

  because like they have the specs and [TS]

  it's like it's like watch specs in going [TS]

  and you can see with low number [TS]

  bizarre on the help of these standards [TS]

  or whatever but the phone they don't say [TS]

  anything about that i do not bring your [TS]

  phone your water in anyway right [TS]

  and so some point they'll be able to say [TS]

  something about the phone with respect [TS]

  to water so I i think that is coming [TS]

  I just don't know if it's the iphone 7 [TS]

  or 8 or 9 or whatever and ever had to [TS]

  put a percentage on it for the seven i [TS]

  would say I i I'm so the reason is i so [TS]

  want this to be an advertising feature [TS]

  of the iphone 7 but I just I just feel [TS]

  like that even if it is the headphone [TS]

  port they need one more generation to [TS]

  really go for water but I hope I'm wrong [TS]

  so I'm going to put it slightly under [TS]

  fifty percent but I hope I'm wrong so [TS]

  even if they ditched the headphone port [TS]

  there's still lightning port right [TS]

  unless we go full inductive yeah i mean [TS]

  like this there's always going to be [TS]

  openings i don't think the headphone i [TS]

  did at put marker said like it's not so [TS]

  much to get into the headphone something [TS]

  makes it possible to waterproof it's [TS]

  that it's a nice it's a nice thing to be [TS]

  able to say when telling people that you [TS]

  took away their headphone port [TS]

  yeah they like because you know there [TS]

  are ways to to waterproof certain ports [TS]

  and and the design of the poor can make [TS]

  it easier or harder [TS]

  I'm sure lightning was probably designed [TS]

  with that in mind with with in mind to [TS]

  to have future devices be more water [TS]

  resistant or to make it easier to do it [TS]

  well it all that being said one thing [TS]

  that I find promising about this is that [TS]

  one of my common criticisms of apple [TS]

  design especially recently that I think [TS]

  seems to be getting worse honestly it [TS]

  seems like the the newer products that [TS]

  come out oftentimes seem to ignore what [TS]

  customers actually need like the [TS]

  problems that we face in the real world [TS]

  and what we actually one of our devices [TS]

  instead you know give us things that we [TS]

  were really asking for even though they [TS]

  might be nice but just things we were [TS]

  only asking for like you know increased [TS]

  thinnest and lightest is one more cut [TS]

  most common things so you know yet [TS]

  things like you know like the macbook [TS]

  one with it's you know really [TS]

  controversial keyboard [TS]

  I'll be nice to it tonight well I really [TS]

  controversial keyboard that's that was [TS]

  made in the name of thinness it's like [TS]

  we didn't need to be that the necessary [TS]

  things like the iphone it in the best [TS]

  example that I can give on the phone is [TS]

  battery life where so many people with [TS]

  love their phone to get better battery [TS]

  life and most people don't say I wish my [TS]

  phone was thinner [TS]

  in general I I see some I see this [TS]

  happening at apple and I'm a little a [TS]

  little saddened by some of this however [TS]

  if you look at what else [TS]

  people really want out of their iphones [TS]

  very high on the list is resistance to [TS]

  damage and the two kinds of damage that [TS]

  happen most phones is water damaged and [TS]

  dropping damage and so if they can make [TS]

  it more more durable and more more [TS]

  resistant to shattering or scratching or [TS]

  cracking of the glass surfaces and if [TS]

  they can make it more water resistant [TS]

  that will seriously benefit a large [TS]

  number of customers that is very [TS]

  promising and that Apple is clearly [TS]

  trying not only to make things super [TS]

  thin so Johnny I can be proud of them [TS]

  because it seems like they don't really [TS]

  know what else to do with the physical [TS]

  designs but they can also at least solve [TS]

  real customer problems things that were [TS]

  really big and really affect a lot of [TS]

  people so that i think is great and if [TS]

  they're if they're doing stuff like this [TS]

  if they're improving waterproofness and [TS]

  shockproof penis at all those will pay [TS]

  off big time and an actual customer [TS]

  benefit [TS]

  ok so what's your answer I think that if [TS]

  the headphone port goes absolutely i [TS]

  think it might even be so far as hey we [TS]

  made it waterproof but oops we had to [TS]

  make the headphone port go away it's [TS]

  just the way it had to be I think it's [TS]

  probably going to be I don't know if it [TS]

  will be advertised as you know full-on [TS]

  waterproof but i do think we will hear [TS]

  something advertised about it [TS]

  significantly increased water protection [TS]

  for like a better way of phrasing it a [TS]

  more water resistance i guess i'm having [TS]

  trouble wrapping my mind around how this [TS]

  would work while still having a [TS]

  lightning port I can't help but wonder [TS]

  you could we do not only inductive [TS]

  charging but inductive data I believe [TS]

  that's called Wi-Fi well how to chez [TS]

  Pierre point [TS]

  yeah but like I don't think you died I [TS]

  think they're going to still have a [TS]

  lighting board and I think lighting port [TS]

  probably because it's their own part and [TS]

  they can do whatever the hell they want [TS]

  with it and it has always been kind of [TS]

  like a non-traditional sort of software [TS]

  control port where it's not as if you're [TS]

  making aspect for the whole world to [TS]

  build you tell them with the pinouts are [TS]

  you have no control of what's at the [TS]

  other end of those pins because they're [TS]

  all like hardwired pins for different [TS]

  voltage levels or whatever like it is [TS]

  entirely up to the apple so I feel like [TS]

  lightning port [TS]

  the least of their concerns like [TS]

  probably the trickiest parts are like [TS]

  the battles around the speakers and [TS]

  microphones and stuff because I mean [TS]

  they've done it on the watch already but [TS]

  to do that and still have a reasonably [TS]

  high quality speaker and microphone [TS]

  assembly which they seem to be [TS]

  concentrating on and recent iOS devices [TS]

  it all seems a little bit around [TS]

  possibility that's why I think like in [TS]

  the past the past few years of devices [TS]

  they have been slowly but surely gain [TS]

  expertise in how to do this all the [TS]

  while not telling you anything about it [TS]

  all the only reason we're finding out [TS]

  about it is because people youtuber [TS]

  dropping their phones in the water and [TS]

  then fill me getting see what happens [TS]

  when i was at least gonna start blending [TS]

  them i think that phase is probably over [TS]

  did you hurt your all the things like [TS]

  the best the best waterproof electronic [TS]

  things they just use distilled water or [TS]

  something without any like free ions or [TS]

  whatever so they can conduct electricity [TS]

  you put present any electronics in that [TS]

  or so the theory goes [TS]

  whereas if you use tap water or [TS]

  something with minerals or impurities or [TS]

  whatever that it'll short out your phone [TS]

  uh-huh yeah do not put your phone in [TS]

  water the lesson like even when if they [TS]

  make the water-resistant one don't make [TS]

  it and I think marco was never trying to [TS]

  give us just a waterproof like that is [TS]

  smart to bring up the the dropping thing [TS]

  because Apple is kind of stuck on that [TS]

  one until some kind of materials change [TS]

  because they picked last for a reason [TS]

  they try to keep making tougher glass [TS]

  the glass that is that's more resistant [TS]

  to to breaking and bending like that [TS]

  super gorilla whatever glass and trying [TS]

  sap like but bottom line is if you put [TS]

  plastic on it would be super durable [TS]

  that it would be terrible you think [TS]

  Johnny I've can handle things now with [TS]

  the camera protruding although entirely [TS]

  agree with that but uh forget it then [TS]

  they want glass because it is it feels [TS]

  nice it feels expensive it doesn't get [TS]

  all scratched up and gross like it all [TS]

  of the great qualities of glass that we [TS]

  love the reason why glasses the right [TS]

  choice for the thumb the one thing as [TS]

  against it is does tend to shatter if [TS]

  you drop it onto asphalt just the right [TS]

  way so I don't know how they get out of [TS]

  that [TS]

  find because if the whole if the goal [TS]

  was make it so i can take this phone and [TS]

  throw it on the ground like I'm spiking [TS]

  the football and it survives make the [TS]

  whole thing out of fisher-price plastic [TS]

  like it's not as if there's a hard drive [TS]

  disk head to crash inside there is [TS]

  extremely durable all except for the [TS]

  fact but it would feel terrible if we [TS]

  made it official price plastic and we [TS]

  get scratched up and it would look gross [TS]

  and it would be a worse product so at [TS]

  least waterproof something I can do with [TS]

  with dropping not quite sure what they [TS]

  can do their and instead we all just [TS]

  cover our phones in cases that look like [TS]

  big fisher-price plastic well some [TS]

  people do I mean my case is not saving [TS]

  my phone that I tell you my wife dropped [TS]

  her her big plus [TS]

  no success that was awhile ago it was [TS]

  like a week after she got it and it just [TS]

  like slipped out of her pocket or [TS]

  whatever from basically waist height [TS]

  onto the cement sidewalk completely [TS]

  shattered [TS]

  well that's why you get applicator plus [TS]

  yeah well in her defense the plus is [TS]

  really easy to drop [TS]

  yeah well it was her first like she's [TS]

  gonna use it was in the silicon case but [TS]

  that didn't save it but ya know and [TS]

  shattered we also chatter phones all the [TS]

  time I just thought there's no way out [TS]

  of that other than to keep leaning on [TS]

  your last manufacturers to make it [TS]

  stronger and better but the you know [TS]

  until we get transparent aluminum I [TS]

  guess from the star trek movie [TS]

  Wow would that be worth something to you [TS]

  and we're done [TS]

  alright thanks 143 sponsors this week [TS]

  Harry's Squarespace and fracture and we [TS]

  will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental [TS]

  John didn't research Marco and Casey [TS]

  would let down [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find show know [TS]

  today [TS]

  DP died and it for twitter you can [TS]

  follow them [TS]

  yes eyl ISS so that's Casey listen ma [TS]

  osseo erm Angie Marco Arment our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse it [TS]

  why do we still have a liking for why [TS]

  not go inductive charging and just say [TS]

  the hell with it to having a port at all [TS]

  my friend has one of those things I [TS]

  forget what it's called like the key [TS]

  charger or something q I or whatever you [TS]

  use it with his iOS devices a case that [TS]

  you basically put on your phone and it [TS]

  plugs into your lighting board and it's [TS]

  a very thin case because all really has [TS]

  to do is have a big like sort of [TS]

  inductive contact thing and you just put [TS]

  it on he likes it he just put it on [TS]

  these little stands and charges that i [TS]

  would assume slightly slower than the [TS]

  other things but why do they not have [TS]

  that i don't know i'm not entirely sure [TS]

  it is a clean windows like isn't that [TS]

  better in all ways than a wire setting [TS]

  aside performance entirely I is it [TS]

  better [TS]

  I don't think it's better and always [TS]

  been a wire because the charging them [TS]

  takes up more room [TS]

  yeah it's like imagine imagine if you're [TS]

  traveling with your phone you go to plug [TS]

  it in like a hotel or something [TS]

  look at what is with the watch today and [TS]

  imagine imagine like the watch but [TS]

  bigger basically like bringing the watch [TS]

  with you is kind of a pain in the butt [TS]

  because that big table and it like [TS]

  doesn't really stick very well to it [TS]

  like when you're like traveling [TS]

  somewhere that kind of sucks [TS]

  where's the phone like you plug in this [TS]

  thing and it holds you can like you can [TS]

  swing the phone around like like a rope [TS]

  from the cord and it holds it i mean you [TS]

  shouldn't but you probably can and it [TS]

  will probably hold like it its it [TS]

  accords are just really really practical [TS]

  in the real world even though they are [TS]

  totally unsexy and they may offend the [TS]

  sensibilities of the key slice like why [TS]

  can't everything be Wireless but the [TS]

  reality is like in practice they are [TS]

  just really good really simple really [TS]

  cheap and they they suffer from very few [TS]

  of the downsides of inductive charging [TS]

  for like I know speed is actually a big [TS]

  issue of that how much current you can [TS]

  get through another charger once safely [TS]

  and i kinda in that kind of situation [TS]

  and i'm pretty sure that a pretty sure [TS]

  that the court still wins at a pretty [TS]

  big margin and looking forward to the [TS]

  future it would be ideal of our phones [TS]

  charged even faster especially the [TS]

  batteries keep getting smaller it would [TS]

  be idealistic if they could charge [TS]

  faster which means more current which [TS]

  means the capable still win so they're [TS]

  capacitors that's all you need to be [TS]

  dr. that supercapacitors that's the [TS]

  current 5-10 year technology is going to [TS]

  make a phone started 15 seconds [TS]

  Emily study together the current across [TS]

  though but you were mostly interesting [TS]

  inductive but i think the other thing [TS]

  out there is the whole trying to cook [TS]

  the people in the room by carefully [TS]

  directing microwaves to exactly where [TS]

  your phone is sitting in that case you [TS]

  would go to the hotel you have all your [TS]

  devices with you and all you do is plug [TS]

  one wall art into the wall and it would [TS]

  charge every device in the room at the [TS]

  same time hopefully not cooking your [TS]

  insides when it doesn't [TS]

  yeah you'd be sleeping five inches away [TS]

  from one of them yeah well you know like [TS]

  it technically you can do that kind of [TS]

  sort of i don't know if that would be [TS]

  legal but like I'm trying to think of [TS]

  things that like I'm trying to think of [TS]

  things that would be with that would be [TS]

  a clean way because I think we would all [TS]

  agree that that could work and not cook [TS]

  people you know we're using whatever [TS]

  technology want to make up about some [TS]

  future technology that would be win [TS]

  because it's better than plugging things [TS]

  in you don't have to have a bunch of [TS]

  pads with you it does all of them at [TS]

  once and it's just it's fire-and-forget [TS]

  like the same way that Wi-Fi is like oh [TS]

  now you know for most people i don't [TS]

  have to wire my house so I just put this [TS]

  one thing in the corner of my house and [TS]

  then internet is everywhere people what [TS]

  is one thing in the corner of my house [TS]

  and charging is everywhere [TS]

  that would be cool i would buy that if [TS]

  it didn't cook me [TS]