0:00:00[Music]
0:00:10From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 461, and it is the WWDC keynote draft for 2023.
0:00:23This episode is brought to you by Nom Nom and Dark Noise.
0:00:26My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by my competitor in the draft, Jason Snow.
0:00:34You're going down, Mike, is that what competitors say?
0:00:37Welcome, hello.
0:00:38You can say that.
0:00:39Welcome to the Octagon, where two podcasters enter and both leave, but one of them will
0:00:44win next time.
0:00:45Yes, this time we will both enter and both leave.
0:00:48And both leave?
0:00:49Next time, one will win.
0:00:50But we'll still both leave, but they'll be a winner.
0:00:53Yeah.
0:00:54I have a Snow Talk question for you.
0:00:56Okay.
0:00:57It comes from me and I would like to know, one week out from WWDC, how are your vibes?
0:01:02You excited?
0:01:03Yeah, I am.
0:01:04I am.
0:01:05I mean, we always talk about this and it's always like, oh, it's a lot of work, right?
0:01:09And I don't even have a trip, right?
0:01:11It's literally, I just drive down.
0:01:13It's not that, it's all, you're coming to California.
0:01:15It's a whole thing.
0:01:16And for me, it's just like, but I'll tell you, not only am I always interested in the
0:01:22resetting of the Apple software year and what are the new OS is going to be and all that,
0:01:25and it's like so much about like, what are they, what are their focuses and what are
0:01:29they going to say and what are we going to be focusing on in our jobs for the next year?
0:01:33I mean, it's a big deal, but it's not every day Apple launches an entirely new platform,
0:01:37hardware and software.
0:01:38And, uh, this been, you know, you say about it's the next year, right?
0:01:43This one is like years.
0:01:44Yeah.
0:01:45That's the difference.
0:01:46Yeah.
0:01:47Yeah.
0:01:48No, this is, this is, I mean, really, I would say probably since the Apple watch that we've
0:01:52had something of this scope.
0:01:54And if what we assume is going to happen is going to happen.
0:01:57So that is extra exciting because those moments are special.
0:02:02And although there's this public perception out there that like Apple releases a new revolutionary
0:02:07product every year, or they used to, but they don't anymore, like it's never been true.
0:02:12It's very rare that you get one of these moments, but here we are.
0:02:16And this one's particularly interesting because so much of it is sort of a mystery.
0:02:20I know that there have been all these leaks and all these features and all that, but like,
0:02:25I, it's what I always say about Apple events, but like exploded several more times, which
0:02:30is what's the narrative, what do they emphasize?
0:02:33What are some of the details?
0:02:35Like we know a lot about like the bill of lading for this thing, but we don't know a
0:02:39lot about like the philosophy behind it and how they've structured the operating system
0:02:43and, and, and clever little details that are going to make you go, Oh, of course.
0:02:48Um, that's the stuff that I'm really looking forward to.
0:02:52It's like my kind of feeling of this one right now, the headset is the first new product
0:03:00that could have a potential effect like the iPhone.
0:03:04I feel like the iPad, we kind of works.
0:03:08We're excited about it.
0:03:09I'm just like, this is new thing.
0:03:11The Apple watch, I don't think anyone realistically expected that the Apple watch would be its
0:03:18own revolutionary product, right?
0:03:20That it was going to be, I mean, the press at the time though, this is, I'm not saying
0:03:24reasonably, I'm saying the press at the time was like, Apple needs another thing and oh,
0:03:28this is going to be the next iPhone.
0:03:30And we, those of us like, including you and me, we're like waving our arms like, no, no,
0:03:34no, it's not, there's not going to be another iPhone.
0:03:36It's not, it's not this headset is not going to be that if there is going to be something,
0:03:42I think this is the start of it.
0:03:43Like if yeah, the glasses are the future.
0:03:47This is the beginning.
0:03:48So I'm very excited.
0:03:50Obviously I'm also incredibly excited because I'm coming.
0:03:54I'm going to be at the keynote and this time Jason, I am going to be at the keynote.
0:03:59I have, I'm manifesting this in my mind.
0:04:03I will be there at Apple park.
0:04:04We'll be there together.
0:04:05We have something fun to share about that in a little bit, but we have some rules to
0:04:11get to for the draft.
0:04:12This is a game of rules.
0:04:15There are going to be 16 rounds in this year's draft, a total of 32 overall picks split into
0:04:24five categories.
0:04:26They will be iOS and iPadOS.
0:04:28That is one category then headset, other, stagecraft and a bonus round for picking the
0:04:34Mac OS name.
0:04:35It's your favorite round.
0:04:37It's going to be fun for everyone.
0:04:39The winner of the previous draft gets the first pick.
0:04:41I was the winner of the previous draft.
0:04:43So it's me, all of the things that we pick are from a predetermined list of choices,
0:04:48which we have been amassing.
0:04:49We have agreed that these are all set and anything that is verifiable on screen can
0:04:57be, is what is counted.
0:04:59We do not put in ridiculously obvious things here.
0:05:02Like you cannot pick, there will be a new version of iOS.
0:05:06That's not there.
0:05:07Yeah, there's no, there's no, there will be a headset pick, right?
0:05:10There's none of that.
0:05:11You got to have more detail required.
0:05:13Yeah.
0:05:14Uh, for an item to be counted and to be scored, uh, it must either be clearly announced on
0:05:19stage or on a slide during the presentation.
0:05:22So the draft is scored purely on the keynote presentation.
0:05:25If something's in the state of the union, that's great for the state of the union.
0:05:28It doesn't matter for the draft.
0:05:30Right.
0:05:31Or on the website.
0:05:32It doesn't matter.
0:05:33It does not matter.
0:05:34Yeah.
0:05:35There are no partial points awarded and Stephen Hackett will be brought into adjudicate in
0:05:38the case of a scoring stalemate between the two of us.
0:05:41But as we always say, we like to settle it together.
0:05:43Yes, we do.
0:05:44Gentlemen, gentlemen, like, uh, very gentle.
0:05:47That's yes.
0:05:48Sportsman like the points awarded on the episode are final and are finalized during the scoring
0:05:54segment.
0:05:56In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question.
0:05:59Loser will get the pick of the tiebreaker question.
0:06:02The winner will become draft champion and will display the champion pennant.
0:06:07Loser becomes the draft challenger and displays the challenger pennant.
0:06:11So we have these pennants in our respective offices.
0:06:14Mine says champion.
0:06:15Jason's says challenger.
0:06:18For a while now.
0:06:22Here are the draft results for 2022.
0:06:25I was the winner picking up both the WWDC and September wins.
0:06:30Jason's won the March event.
0:06:31So it was a 2-1.
0:06:33This is the first event of 2023, which is interesting.
0:06:36I know.
0:06:37The history of the WWDC draft is thusly, I have won four times.
0:06:42Jason has won three times.
0:06:44So this is WWDC draft V-I-I-I.
0:06:48Correct.
0:06:49Yes.
0:06:50I, now you said that I wish we would have made that the episode like naming convention.
0:06:58We could have gone like WWDC V-I-I-I.
0:07:01How fun would that be?
0:07:03I just submitted it as a title.
0:07:04Maybe we'll change it.
0:07:05Who knows?
0:07:06So at least it will be the subtitle, potentially.
0:07:10Here is some programming notes.
0:07:12Next week, we will be recording live together from Apple Park.
0:07:18Looks like.
0:07:20This will be the first time, hopefully, that the episode will have been recorded with both
0:07:24of us together in the grounds of Apple.
0:07:27We are currently scheduled.
0:07:28I've been live at Apple.
0:07:29You've been live.
0:07:30And I was on a screen there.
0:07:32Yes.
0:07:33We don't need to rub it in, do we really?
0:07:36You know?
0:07:37See, this is Jason.
0:07:38He's in draft mode right now.
0:07:39The iPhone event was like that.
0:07:40You weren't in California at all for the iPhone event and you were on a little screen.
0:07:44Well, I was also on a screen for the WWDC one and I was also in San Jose, but that wasn't
0:07:51super helpful for anyone.
0:07:53But this time, no screens, hopefully, just you and me together at an undisclosed location
0:08:00somewhere around the Apple campus.
0:08:03We are currently scheduled to start around 1.45 PM if you listen live.
0:08:07This could change, though, of course.
0:08:09Please keep an eye on the Upgrade Mastodon account or in the Relay FM members Discord
0:08:13and we will keep you updated on our going live time.
0:08:17But we will be recording live.
0:08:18So if you are a Relay FM member, you can listen and hang out and chat in our Discord.
0:08:23But you can listen on the web at relay.fm/live.
0:08:27That's 1.45 PM Pacific.
0:08:29Pacific time.
0:08:30Yes.
0:08:31Cupertino time.
0:08:32Cupertino time.
0:08:33It's the time that we'll both be in.
0:08:34So it's the time that we'll observe.
0:08:35Yeah, it's the time.
0:08:37If you would like to score along with the draft, you can get your scorecard upgrade.cards.
0:08:43Thank you so much to Upgrading and Relay FM Discord mod Zach Knox for putting that together
0:08:48for us as they always do.
0:08:50It's highly appreciated.
0:08:52You can find the whole history there of the drafts if you'd like to go through yourself.
0:08:56And if you would like to get your very own draft shirt, you can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com.
0:09:02That is a permanently available item.
0:09:06So let's get into it.
0:09:07Let's start with a tiebreaker.
0:09:08We have for many years done event duration.
0:09:11And I think that that continues to be our preferred tiebreaker question.
0:09:16So Jason, would you like to choose the time in minutes?
0:09:20And I will go over under.
0:09:21Right.
0:09:22So what we have seen is thus far, Apple has done a lot of live events for WWDC that have
0:09:28been just over two hours, sometimes a lot over if Jimmy Iovine comes out on stage and
0:09:32rambles.
0:09:34But their video events have been under two hours.
0:09:37The question is with this keynote and this product that they're going to announce, are
0:09:43they going to be able to go under two hours and show that discipline?
0:09:47Or are they going to blow through it and put it up above 120 minutes?
0:09:51And so I'm just going to lay it down right there, Mike.
0:09:53Tiebreaker.
0:09:54Are they going to break 120 minutes?
0:09:56Or are they going to keep it under no matter what?
0:09:58Oh, I hate this so much.
0:10:01That's the idea.
0:10:06My personal inclination is that it will break two hours.
0:10:11Like I do believe that that's going to be the case.
0:10:15So I'm going to say yes, I'm going to say over 120 minutes.
0:10:19Okay.
0:10:20And my personal inclination is that they won't break two hours because they've just decided
0:10:24that's the limit.
0:10:25And that's why I said it where I did is I thought that that's actually a natural break
0:10:29between what you already think and what I already think.
0:10:31So there it is.
0:10:32It's on the line in case of a tie.
0:10:35We'll see how long the event is.
0:10:37I do think though, if it does, it will break it by like barely anything.
0:10:42Like I reckon it will be like as close to two hours as they can get it.
0:10:46Yeah.
0:10:47It's not going to be Jimmy Iovine link.
0:10:48That's for sure.
0:10:49It's going to be in the ballpark of 120.
0:10:50That WBC was horrible.
0:10:53That was, I remember I was watching it in a, um, like an event watching party that the
0:10:59release notes conference put on.
0:11:02And I'm not sure if I've ever needed to use the bathroom more in my life by the end of
0:11:06that.
0:11:07Schmoozy showbiz services talk should not be in a WWDC key.
0:11:13And just the amount of guests that they had and like the amount of executives they had
0:11:16all just for Apple music.
0:11:18That was all it was for an hour for Apple music.
0:11:20It was so ridiculous.
0:11:21It was not good.
0:11:22Yeah.
0:11:23Yeah.
0:11:24Not great.
0:11:25But we don't have to worry about that for this time.
0:11:27It's going to be great.
0:11:28Probably not.
0:11:29You got to hope.
0:11:30But I mean, I think one of the reasons, the problems that they had is it was just, it
0:11:33wasn't tightly edited.
0:11:34Right?
0:11:35Like that was the issue.
0:11:36Right.
0:11:37It's it's live.
0:11:38And if you ramble in your, on the current Apple videos, they just cut you down or cut
0:11:42you out.
0:11:43But back then you're on stage, you're Jimmy Iovine, you're Eddy Cue, you're out there
0:11:46on stage.
0:11:47There is no comical hook, vaudeville style hook to like pull you off the stage.
0:11:54Like no, that's it.
0:11:56That's enough.
0:11:57So they're just out there rambling and wasting time.
0:12:00So yeah, they don't do that anymore.
0:12:01They'll cut you out or they'll tell you to tell you to snap it, snap it up while they're
0:12:05recording it and just figure it out.
0:12:07Was there Apple TV stuff in that one too?
0:12:11I don't remember.
0:12:13Because I...
0:12:14That was a long time ago.
0:12:15I believe that there was a keynote.
0:12:17If not that one where I think it was that one that they stretched it for time because
0:12:21they didn't have some deals done for Apple TV.
0:12:23Is that something that...
0:12:24Ah.
0:12:25But that doesn't make any sense why you would need to stretch it for time.
0:12:28It's like it's not like you need a minimum requirement.
0:12:31But yeah, it kind of the keynote kind of went off the rails a little bit because something
0:12:34had to get cut.
0:12:37Yeah.
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0:14:44So we move into the first 4 picks, the first round.
0:14:50Which is iOS and iPadOS.
0:14:55As the winner of the previous draft I will get to go first.
0:14:58And that's the way I tend to do things.
0:15:00I have my little list here that I've compiled, you know, like I've gone in and made my
0:15:04own list based on our list and ranked them.
0:15:08And I'm going to go with widgets on the iPad lock screen as my first pick.
0:15:17We have like this long list of stuff right?
0:15:19And I'm kind of stuck a little bit in trying to guess what I think is the most likely stuff
0:15:28to be added in a year where iOS and iPadOS may not be the focus.
0:15:34And also what I'm trying to wonder is what are they going to show in the keynote?
0:15:40And I think this is a visual thing they could show for the iPad that we may immediately
0:15:46be able to understand if they haven't spent a lot of time on iPadOS itself.
0:15:53So that's kind of where I'm thinking they're going to go.
0:15:56And I'm using for that like a previous recipe I'm trying to think of, like a previous
0:16:06like trend of Apple introduces something for the iPad and then the next year we see it
0:16:12on the iPad.
0:16:14And I feel like lock screen widgets on the iPad is something that should exist.
0:16:17Like it makes a lot of sense to do that.
0:16:19So this is what I'm expecting.
0:16:21Well Mike, you'll be happy to know that that was my top choice.
0:16:24Oh great.
0:16:25Well, please stay you agree with me.
0:16:26The sound that you made initially, I felt like I had to justify myself.
0:16:29I was like, oh no.
0:16:30I mean, you always have to justify yourself, but no, that was, I was surprised that you
0:16:36picked it, but I had it at the top of my list.
0:16:39So you know, you're playing to win.
0:16:41I appreciate that.
0:16:42Oh, I am 100% playing to win.
0:16:44I've had a taste of the winning life and I want to keep my, I don't want to turn this
0:16:47pendant around Jason Sehle.
0:16:49I know I get it.
0:16:52I am going to choose the health app on the iPad for my pick.
0:16:56There's some rumors out there.
0:16:57Mark Gurman said it would happen.
0:16:59Part of this is as always wish casting on my part.
0:17:01I think that it should be on the iPad.
0:17:03I think that having that information available on the iPad makes sense.
0:17:07It's frustrating that it's only on the iPhone.
0:17:09And since there is a credible rumor out there that it's going to happen, I've decided to
0:17:13just step up and pick it.
0:17:16Time to get that thing on the iPad.
0:17:18Health is, should not be limited to one device.
0:17:22You have to remind me here.
0:17:23If this was to exist, would my iPhone's data sync to my iPad?
0:17:29I think it would have to, right?
0:17:31I mean, maybe, maybe if you were, I mean, this is the question, right?
0:17:35It's like Apple watch only does it with the iPhone, like doing fitness.
0:17:40But can't you do fitness without the Apple watch now?
0:17:46And yeah, I mean, I think that implicit in the idea of the health app on the iPad is
0:17:49that they would do some end to end encryption of your health data and be able to sync it
0:17:54between devices.
0:17:55So I hope that's what they did.
0:17:56Yeah.
0:17:57I mean, I know that they do the end to end encryption and I'm hoping that there'll be
0:18:01some way for that to then find its way onto my iPad, right?
0:18:05Like my iPad could also have the key to unlock it because that would be the benefit.
0:18:10It is one of those things when I, every time people say the health app should come to the
0:18:14iPad, my first thought is, wait, the health app is not on the iPad.
0:18:17Like it just feels like a fitness is there.
0:18:21I have all this health data from my runs and all my Apple watch data syncs to my iPhone.
0:18:28And I always want to look at it when I'm using my iPad and I can't.
0:18:34And I have to go to my iPhone and I admit I am more iPad focused than iPhone focused,
0:18:39but like, surely I'm not the only one like that.
0:18:42And it doesn't seem reasonable that my health data is only located on that one iPhone.
0:18:47I would like it to be on my other device is certainly on my iPad.
0:18:50If I at least wish to have it all sync.
0:18:52So yeah, I'm, but again, there was also a rumor out there that this was going to happen.
0:18:57So it's not, I'm not completely, I wouldn't pick this if there was no rumblings about
0:19:00it, but it sounds like this is something that may actually happen.
0:19:03So talking about potential apps that may be finding their way onto iOS that have been
0:19:10rumored.
0:19:11My second pick in the draft will be the introduction of a journaling app for iOS and iPad.
0:19:16I was a little shaky on this thing.
0:19:21But a few days ago, Mark Gummum published a report also kind of confirming that it's
0:19:25coming.
0:19:26I have a lot, I have more questions on this than the health app, for example, right?
0:19:33Because like the health app is just bringing over something existing.
0:19:36But the journaling app, I'm really intrigued to see exactly what it is Apple's going to
0:19:40do.
0:19:41And when thinking about iOS and iPadOS maybe having as not high a focus as normal, this
0:19:52feels like something you could put into iOS 17, even though realistically it probably
0:19:57doesn't need that.
0:19:58You know, like this is building on a set of existing technologies surely that Apple has,
0:20:04but they're going to put it into iOS 17 as an iOS 17 feature.
0:20:08It would just be a new app from Apple.
0:20:10Yeah, I agree with you.
0:20:13This is a really exciting category.
0:20:14I had it on my list, but I decided to go with, for my pick, the broader choice, which was
0:20:18also on our list, which is a new Apple default app on iPad or iPhone.
0:20:24What would that mean in this circumstance like for this year?
0:20:28I mean, it's if the journaling app is not in the app store, but is on the device pre-installed
0:20:34or if they do a password thing, which is another one of our individual choices.
0:20:39That's how I interpret it.
0:20:41They'll add an app to the collection of apps that just comes with your phone.
0:20:46How would we know that?
0:20:49Like the journaling app, how would we know it comes pre-installed?
0:20:52Why is it on our list if we wouldn't know it?
0:20:53Yeah, but the way I've always assumed default app was kind of like, "Hmm, hmm."
0:21:00I was thinking about it in different terms, but...
0:21:05Well, yeah.
0:21:07I highlighted it very much as like, I think they're going to add an app and then you could
0:21:11also pick passwords or journaling if you wanted to.
0:21:13You pick journaling.
0:21:14I'm like, "Well, I don't know.
0:21:15That was lower down on my list."
0:21:17Because I'm like, "And app, I feel like there's a higher chance of that than this."
0:21:22Yeah, I wonder what were you thinking by this?
0:21:24Because I can take it out.
0:21:25I think this maybe shouldn't have been in the list this year because we had the Postos
0:21:28and journaling app.
0:21:29I always kind of considered this as like some...
0:21:32Is this recycled from last year?
0:21:34That was one of the recycled ones.
0:21:35I do think that maybe if we're going to have the passwords and journaling apps, we should
0:21:40maybe have not had that one in there.
0:21:42All right, that's fair.
0:21:44I will withdraw it then.
0:21:45Thank you.
0:21:46And I'm going to go in a different direction.
0:21:47Look at this sportspersonship going on over here.
0:21:50Yeah, it's happening.
0:21:51This is how really calm predictions are made.
0:21:54Gentlemen like.
0:21:55Yeah, on the Connected podcast, somebody would pick it and then everybody would agree that
0:22:00it was invalid, but they couldn't change the pick.
0:22:03But it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
0:22:04It's too late.
0:22:05It's too late.
0:22:06Yeah, or let's amend that for next time.
0:22:09Okay, I'm going to go with iPad support.
0:22:14iPad with stage manager on an external display will work with closed.
0:22:20Wow.
0:22:21Wow.
0:22:23Okay.
0:22:24Are you wish casting here?
0:22:26Or do you really think they're going to do this?
0:22:29I really think they're going to do it.
0:22:30I think that this is something they just left on the table and that there's been enough
0:22:35complaint about it and there's enough of a use case for this.
0:22:37I think actually having the iPad screen on when you're attached to an external display,
0:22:43it makes everything worse.
0:22:45Because one of the things that happens with stage managers, it starts sending things back
0:22:50to the iPad screen, which at least when I use it, like I don't want, when I've got a
0:22:55big screen in front of me and then the iPad is off to the side or down below or whatever,
0:22:58I don't want things on the iPad screen.
0:23:01I want them not on the iPad screen.
0:23:04So I think that this is a thing for them to do to actually make the iPad experience better
0:23:10by offering this.
0:23:11All right.
0:23:13Third pick, control center redesign.
0:23:16Wow.
0:23:17Okay.
0:23:18It's time.
0:23:19This one was rumored really early on.
0:23:25This was one of the rumors when the discussion around iOS 17 was not much going on.
0:23:32This is before some of this app stuff that we've been hearing about, which is talking
0:23:36about.
0:23:37I feel like that this is when we spoke about it at the time when it came up in Rumor Roundup.
0:23:43It is a design that has stuck around for a decade, realistically.
0:23:49Visually so similar still to iOS 17.
0:23:52It's just kind of moved a bunch.
0:23:54It used to be at the bottom.
0:23:56Now it comes from the top and now it takes over the whole screen.
0:23:59I just feel like that there are much better ways of showing this kind of information than
0:24:05this like weird semi-transparent button thing that they've got going on right now.
0:24:11I want it to happen.
0:24:13Haven't heard about it in a while, but you're right.
0:24:14There was a credible rumor about that, which makes it more than wish casting.
0:24:17I would love to see it.
0:24:18I think we did an episode where we talked about it in detail, the idea of being able
0:24:22to customize it much more and we complained about the way that home stuff is in there.
0:24:28You can't turn it.
0:24:30It's going to pick what it's going to pick.
0:24:34I would love to see that.
0:24:36We had two in our list that I think we maybe should merge together because I think they
0:24:39mean the same thing, which is more functionality for the lock screen slash always on functionality.
0:24:47That's definitely meant to be the same.
0:24:49That's the same thing.
0:24:50So I'm going to pick it.
0:24:54It was coming up for me very shortly, that one.
0:24:57This is the idea that one, they introduced all the lock screen stuff last time and they
0:25:02may add functionality there in terms of maybe expanded widgets, who knows what.
0:25:09But also I think it encompasses this late breaking Mark Gurman rumor, which is this
0:25:14idea that just came out last week.
0:25:16We haven't even talked about it on the show because we did our last rumor roundup last
0:25:21week.
0:25:22But this idea that there's going to be kind of a, it's almost like nightstand mode for
0:25:28the Apple watch, except for the iPhone where you put it on its side and it gives you a
0:25:34nightstand thing where it's got like a different interface and it's just meant to be an ambient
0:25:41display for when you're in that mode.
0:25:44And that's really interesting too.
0:25:46But I think between those two ideas that they're going to work on this stuff and they're going
0:25:51to tweak the lock screen or add this new mode.
0:25:55Once you've gotten always on display, those are the two things you can do, right?
0:25:58You could add more content to the existing feature or you could also make a variation
0:26:02on the feature.
0:26:03And I love nightstand mode on my Apple watch.
0:26:06That's what I use every single night.
0:26:09I don't leave the iPhone by the side of the bed, but I know a lot of people do.
0:26:13And this might actually be a pretty great feature.
0:26:16Or if you just got a dock somewhere, if you could put information on it and have it actually
0:26:19visible when it's on your desk or wherever, that's cool too.
0:26:23So I think there's something there.
0:26:25I don't know what, but something.
0:26:27- Yeah.
0:26:29I would love to see this on the iPad more than the iPhone.
0:26:31- I know, I know.
0:26:33- But obviously there is a benefit to having this on an always on display.
0:26:38- Yeah.
0:26:39- Right?
0:26:40- And then on a display that you then have to keep on all the time and just really drain
0:26:44the battery down.
0:26:45So.
0:26:46- Right.
0:26:47Although, I mean, again, it's one of those things that if I were tasked, if I were at
0:26:49Apple and I was tasked with this idea for the iPad, I would say, well, what do we have?
0:26:54Like we have cameras and we have the infrared dot projector and sensor and like, could we
0:26:59do, cause like my cheap kitchen appliance devices, both back when I had the Echo Show
0:27:04and now that I've got the Nest Home, like they've got a sensor that's like, it knows,
0:27:11first off it knows what time it is.
0:27:13It knows what, how much light there is.
0:27:15And then it knows if there's like movement in front of it and it adjusts accordingly.
0:27:18So like you could potentially do that with the iPad based on the stuff that's already
0:27:22there.
0:27:23And wouldn't that be nice to have this feature where you could set an iPad in your kitchen
0:27:27and it would, or anywhere really.
0:27:29And it would behave in a certain way, depending on the time of day, show you information that's
0:27:36useful, not just be kind of like an empty slab, but I don't know.
0:27:40The Mark Gurman didn't actually say when he was reporting about this other feature, he
0:27:44didn't actually say that it wasn't coming to the iPad.
0:27:46What he did was the thing where he says, well, usually what they seem to be doing is bringing
0:27:50it to the iPhone and then bringing it to the iPad.
0:27:53And maybe that's what the plan is here is step one is put it on the iPhone.
0:27:57And step two is, come out with that rumored kind of like dock product that goes with an
0:28:02iPad that you could put in the kitchen and it would use this mode.
0:28:07Maybe we'll get there, but yeah, start with the iPhone would be okay.
0:28:11If they do bring it to the iPad, I think I get the points anyway, cause it's not specific
0:28:14to that, but looking forward to it.
0:28:16All right.
0:28:17So we're onto our final pick for iOS and iPadOS and I'm really struggling between two.
0:28:21Okay.
0:28:22And there's like, well, that's good.
0:28:25Cause I've only got two left on my pick list and I was going to have to go into the dregs.
0:28:28So I'm not going to say which, but I'll give you my problem.
0:28:32There's one that I think is very possible, but might not get mentioned or shown.
0:28:37And there's one that they would definitely spend time showing, but I'm not convinced
0:28:41they're going to do it.
0:28:42So this is, this is where I am with these two.
0:28:44I know what, I know which one that one is.
0:28:46I don't know about the other one, but I know which one that one is.
0:28:51I'm going to go with the one that I think is maybe the most likely to happen, which
0:28:56is more functionality for the dynamic island.
0:28:58Oh, you had the same two that I did.
0:29:01Yes.
0:29:02Yes.
0:29:03More.
0:29:04You, you think this is, but here's the thing is I, I'm not convinced that there'll be more
0:29:07functionality for the dynamic island.
0:29:08I want there to be.
0:29:09I'm not convinced.
0:29:10Cause the dynamic island is great, but I'm not convinced that after year one with the
0:29:14dynamic island, that they're going to do anything other than just keep the dynamic island.
0:29:18Yeah.
0:29:19So there could be more stuff around live activities.
0:29:22There are things they could do.
0:29:23And I see this as a potentially more likely thing than probably what you're going to say,
0:29:29which is interactive widgets, I'm assuming.
0:29:34So let's just, let's just put that out there.
0:29:35Let's just put it on the table and talk about the both of them.
0:29:38That's that's the one that we, we both have the same two as our next pick.
0:29:41So interactive widgets feels like if they do that, they're going to show that off and
0:29:45spend a bunch of time with it.
0:29:46Yeah.
0:29:47But I'm not sure they're going to do it.
0:29:48Oh, and also there is, this may form part of a different operating system and they just
0:29:55show it during the operating system and don't talk about it in iOS.
0:29:59And then later on in the state of the union say, Oh, and by the way, you can now bring
0:30:03these features over to iOS.
0:30:04Cause like a lot of the time when I'm thinking about the draft here this year is what are
0:30:09they just not going to say so they can cut time?
0:30:12Yeah.
0:30:13Cause that's the truth of it, right?
0:30:14There there we, I would almost guarantee there are going to be features that we at least
0:30:18if not picked, we have in our, our list of potential picks that are totally going to
0:30:23happen and either not appear in the keynote at all or appear in the keynote as a bullet
0:30:28point on a slide when they normally would have had a demo because they're just cutting
0:30:32stuff and, and we have a pick later, a stagecraft pick, but I'll give you a hint about it now.
0:30:37It's the footnote in the middle of the keynote that says state of the union.
0:30:42Yeah.
0:30:43I made another video that explains more about all of this because we can't get it in here.
0:30:50What's the state of the union of video last year?
0:30:52Like it was prerecorded too?
0:30:54Oh yeah.
0:30:55They're all, they're all prerecorded.
0:30:56Yeah.
0:30:57Okay.
0:30:58I wasn't sure about that one, but yeah, it makes sense.
0:30:59All right.
0:31:00So that is the end of the iOS and iPadOS round.
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0:33:36So we move into a brand new round in the draft.
0:33:39It's not often that we add an entire new category.
0:33:43I know, but we have to do it.
0:33:46And this is the category that is receiving the most picks this year.
0:33:50There are five picks in the headset category.
0:33:55Yeah, here we are.
0:33:57I hope it happens.
0:33:58Otherwise these five picks will just be a footnote.
0:34:01That is not the first time that that has happened to us.
0:34:04It's true.
0:34:05Right?
0:34:06We did.
0:34:07I don't remember what draft it was, but when we were expecting, I think it was in 2020
0:34:10when they did the watch and the iPad and we made iPhone picks, but there was no iPhone
0:34:16in that.
0:34:17There was no iPhone.
0:34:18Yeah.
0:34:19Good times.
0:34:20Okay.
0:34:22My top pick for the headset, no headset pricing announced.
0:34:29Oh, that was on my list.
0:34:31That was definitely on my list.
0:34:33That's a good pick.
0:34:35They're not going to talk about it here, right?
0:34:37Like I feel like no pricing information, probably no release information.
0:34:45I expect they will make some reference to what, and there's more to tell you later on
0:34:50this year.
0:34:51I may say shipping later this year or something, right?
0:34:53But no headset pricing will be announced.
0:34:58I think that's fair.
0:34:59James Thompson asks a good question in the discord that maybe we want to clarify.
0:35:03What about developer pricing?
0:35:07I don't really, I feel like we're looking for consumer, right?
0:35:10Like a developer kit is not the headset, if that makes sense.
0:35:13It could be anything.
0:35:15No consumer headset pricing announced.
0:35:18Good clarification to make, but that's kind of, I feel the spirit of the pick here.
0:35:22Yeah.
0:35:23Oh, definitely.
0:35:24For sure.
0:35:25Yeah.
0:35:26They're not going to do it, right?
0:35:27They don't have to do it.
0:35:28I don't think they're going to do it.
0:35:29No.
0:35:30Like it's not shipping.
0:35:31Why, why give people more time to chew over that price if, um, if they don't have to and
0:35:36they can just wait until anything can change right up until it comes out, right.
0:35:40They might want to change it up or down depending on how people react.
0:35:44Exactly.
0:35:45So I think that's a good pick.
0:35:47I had that in my, high up in my list of picks.
0:35:50I am going to just embrace the name Reality Pro.
0:35:57Oh, wow.
0:36:00Okay.
0:36:02Jason coming in hot with a naming pick.
0:36:05Yeah.
0:36:06Huh.
0:36:07Well, there's again, lots of evidence out there that they've been trademarking Reality
0:36:12Pro and Reality One and that Reality Pro is probably the high end one and Reality One
0:36:18is probably the low end one that will come later.
0:36:21And I it's got to have a name.
0:36:24Right.
0:36:26And I think it's Reality Pro.
0:36:28So I'm just gonna, I'm gonna embrace it.
0:36:29I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose it.
0:36:31That's it.
0:36:33Okay.
0:36:35I mean, if I was gonna go with a name, right?
0:36:40Like my guess for a name, this would be the name out of all the names we've heard, right?
0:36:46It was at the end, but like it was in the little pick, like my potential picks that
0:36:50I made was Reality Pro, but it was actually my last pick of the ones that I whittled down.
0:36:58Just because I don't, I don't feel sold on any of the names for anything really.
0:37:06That's how I feel about the OS names too.
0:37:08And we know that they can, they can change names and we know that they can misdirect,
0:37:11but I feel like that's the name.
0:37:13More just in that none of them are great.
0:37:17So I just, I can't feel like I can put my finger on what they might particularly go
0:37:21with.
0:37:22Like this is called reality.
0:37:24This might just be called reality.
0:37:26Reality.
0:37:27They may not have a pro because there isn't anything else.
0:37:30So could be.
0:37:33My second pick is headset will be quote shipping later this year.
0:37:39Yeah.
0:37:40Yeah.
0:37:41That would have been my next pick.
0:37:42So then I was going to give any more information than just like later.
0:37:46And I feel like they have to say something right.
0:37:50And who knows that they might say next year.
0:37:52Right.
0:37:53I doubt it.
0:37:54Well, that's it.
0:37:55You could be wrong.
0:37:56I think if they say by the end of the year, then you're right.
0:37:57If they don't give a time, I think you're wrong.
0:37:59Yes.
0:38:00And if they say next year, you're wrong.
0:38:03Basically anything else is shipping later this year.
0:38:07Yep.
0:38:08I think that's very likely to be the case.
0:38:11So good pick.
0:38:13Very much a good pick.
0:38:15I am going to pick VR FaceTime demo.
0:38:21This was going to be my next one.
0:38:23I think communication and collaboration is just too important to Apple.
0:38:28I think they've been laying the groundwork here.
0:38:31FaceTime SharePlay, Memoji, like we...
0:38:35Spoilers for an article I haven't yet written, but very clearly, Dan or I will write an article
0:38:41sometime in late June or early July for Macworld, where we detail all of the foundational software
0:38:49features that Apple has been building for the last five years in anticipation of announcing
0:38:54this device.
0:38:56And so I just, I can't see them not saying you're going to be able to communicate with
0:38:59other people and it's going to be like, you're right together.
0:39:01And that's going to be, and when I say FaceTime demo, I mean, if they call it something different,
0:39:05we know what a VR FaceTime demo is.
0:39:07It's VR communication where you're in a room with somebody else.
0:39:11Yeah.
0:39:12Like there are two people that are in different places that both wear headsets and they're
0:39:16having a conversation.
0:39:17That's VR FaceTime, but that's what they're going to call it.
0:39:20Right?
0:39:21Like, I feel like it will just be FaceTime.
0:39:22Yeah.
0:39:23It'll just be FaceTime.
0:39:24Yeah.
0:39:25I think so.
0:39:26So I'm going to go in that vein and say VR Fitness Experience shown.
0:39:31Oh, very good.
0:39:32Very good.
0:39:33Now, here's the thing though, about both of these things that we've just picked.
0:39:36Now I expect that this is what they will need to do to show the device, but I did have this
0:39:42thought of like, we were talking about the Apple Music demo where the problem with the
0:39:46Apple Music demo at WWDC was it's just like a lot of things for a consumer at the developer
0:39:53conference.
0:39:55So it's like an interesting thing of like, here's just like how this thing works, which
0:39:59is...
0:40:00Will they withhold features like fitness?
0:40:03Will they withhold some of that for the announcement and focus more on sort of like what the platform
0:40:09is capable of doing and hold back some of these things and say, we're not going to show
0:40:14you.
0:40:15Like I think FaceTime is more likely as a collaboration thing than fitness, but fitness
0:40:18is like, will they hold that back and say, oh, Apple Fitness is also on the heads up.
0:40:22As we were talking about it, I've kind of talked myself out of it, but it's too late
0:40:25now.
0:40:26It's too late.
0:40:27But yeah, I think of the two, and that was how I ranked them.
0:40:29FaceTime is more likely for those reasons, just because realistically, that's what people
0:40:34want to see.
0:40:35They want to see like how are Apple going to demonstrate communication?
0:40:39Like that is more important than fitness.
0:40:42Fitness will, I am convinced, make up a part of the product, but that could be a, we'll
0:40:47show you it in September situation, then we'll show you it now.
0:40:52Yeah well we'll see.
0:40:54I'm gonna, I don't like it, but I understand it and it's too consistent not to pick.
0:40:59I'm gonna pick the external battery pack.
0:41:00This is my next pick.
0:41:03Just seems to like the signals are too strong that this is the story that they went with
0:41:08a design that is lighter on your head, but requires you to have a little pack that you
0:41:14put in a pocket.
0:41:16And what I'm curious about, we haven't really talked about this a lot, is I've seen some
0:41:21people make the comment like, okay you can watch a movie with this, but if the battery
0:41:24life is only two hours, like you're not gonna be able to do it.
0:41:27I kind of assume that there's gonna be a pass-through where you could plug the thing that you use
0:41:32to charge the battery, you can also just plug it in and sit down to watch a movie and it'll
0:41:37just run forever.
0:41:39Yeah.
0:41:40I think, I'm trying to remember now.
0:41:43I think I remember a rumor suggesting from, I believe it's from Mark Gurman, that the
0:41:47battery pack will connect via a MagSafe-like connector that locks, but there's also gonna
0:41:53be a USB-C on it for like power and like maybe some data transfer or something.
0:42:01Yeah, I expect you're right, that you'll be able to plug it into like a laptop power adapter
0:42:05and just sit for hours and that will be how people will use it at their desks, for example.
0:42:10At their desks, exactly.
0:42:11Yep, yep.
0:42:12That's not my pick, it's just the external battery.
0:42:15Yeah, yeah, external battery pack is the pick and I think that's a good one and, you know,
0:42:19this is one of those ones that I could imagine if this wasn't true, that would have been
0:42:23corrected by now.
0:42:24Yes, in fact, I was gonna say the reverse, which is if it had an external battery pack
0:42:28and it hadn't leaked yet, Apple would totally leak it, because it's funny how we first heard
0:42:32about this and we're like, "Oh, that's so inelegant, that's so not Apple," and now we're like,
0:42:36"Yeah, that's totally what it's gonna be," right?
0:42:38Like we've just kind of come to accept that it's gonna be like that.
0:42:41I have been on board with this idea from the start.
0:42:43I think this is a very, very good idea because VR headsets currently are too heavy.
0:42:47They're just too heavy.
0:42:48Well, this is in the design is how it works phase, right?
0:42:50Which is from a pure Johnny Ive kind of like it all needs to be what it stripped down to
0:42:56its fundamentals, right?
0:42:59And having it just be an entirely self-contained object that you put on, I think is the design
0:43:06ideal, but there's the design is how it works thing, which is like, that's really heavy
0:43:12and unpleasant and you don't wanna use it.
0:43:15And so you make a concession to the complexity of the hardware in exchange for the experience
0:43:23being better.
0:43:24And yeah, I agree.
0:43:25I think that's probably the right decision.
0:43:27And a single cable, like people say it get in your way.
0:43:29Like the thing I'll have to say to you is like, did you have this problem when you used
0:43:32an iPod?
0:43:33Like, we all had cables.
0:43:36It's a very easy way to do this.
0:43:37You plug it in and then you just drop the battery pack down the inside of your shirt
0:43:41and put it in your pocket.
0:43:42Like this is very simple to get around.
0:43:44Lots of ways to do it.
0:43:45Yeah.
0:43:46Like this won't be an issue.
0:43:48It will be great.
0:43:49I think it will make a much better experience than any of the meta headsets because it's
0:43:55going to be just more comfortable to wear provided they get the rest of it right.
0:44:00But the white part will definitely be a good thing.
0:44:03I'm going to go back to the developer story a little bit and something that I think will
0:44:07be shown off is iPad apps running in VR a demoed.
0:44:12Yes.
0:44:13This was next on my list.
0:44:14In fact, this will be like one of the two part of the developer story, right?
0:44:17That there will be a traditional app story.
0:44:23How do you get your apps today into reality pro and ha and then how do you develop whole
0:44:31new VR first experiences like they're the two concurrent things, which I think will
0:44:37actually really benefit this product that there are two legitimate paths for getting
0:44:42apps on the thing, you know, and I think that that will be helpful for people using it and
0:44:47for its adoption in the long run that you'll be able to do everything you can currently
0:44:51do on an iPad in theory.
0:44:53Plus there are these full immersive experiences.
0:44:57Yeah.
0:44:58It makes sense.
0:44:59It makes sense.
0:45:00I agree with you.
0:45:01Who was next on my list?
0:45:02Who is next then?
0:45:04Ooh, yeah.
0:45:05Well, that's the question.
0:45:08I'm going to go with a core AR feature that I think you've got to have in a product like
0:45:17this, which is facial expression tracking.
0:45:22Very good one.
0:45:23Very, very good one.
0:45:24The idea here is that it's going to have technology to look at your eyes and you're like, are
0:45:29you closing your eyes?
0:45:31Are you lifting an eyebrow?
0:45:33Are you frowning?
0:45:35It's going to be able to look at you and intuit your expression so that it can convey that
0:45:40in an avatar in some way and that they'll talk about that.
0:45:44There'll be a moment of like, yeah, and it matches what your eyes are doing.
0:45:50And I'm not saying where that will happen, but I think that they'll have to mention we're
0:45:56not going to make your avatar a completely opaque, just like a serial killer face that
0:46:04has no expression.
0:46:06We're going to do expressions and we're going to do it by watching your expressions and
0:46:09conveying them in your avatar.
0:46:13Just like they do with Memoji, where you can pose for a Memoji and it looks at your face.
0:46:19It'll be like that.
0:46:20It's going to look at your face and track those expressions.
0:46:25The MetaQuest Pro has this.
0:46:27So it has facial expression tracking sensors and in meeting environments, it makes a huge
0:46:35difference because if you're talking to someone, they start thinking, they start looking up,
0:46:40you get that.
0:46:42You see them do that.
0:46:44I think that it is for immersion in these environments, it is a pretty important thing.
0:46:51And as well, if you're doing eye tracking as well, it's not a huge jump to imagine face
0:46:57tracking.
0:46:58Eye tracking has been mentioned for this thing for a long time, so they can do that foveated
0:47:02rendering stuff, which is what the PlayStation headset does.
0:47:07My final pick is this isn't the other side of the developer part, but I think will be
0:47:16an interesting part of the device.
0:47:19I think it will be one of the ways that they show really cool AR technology, which will
0:47:25be that the headset has a mode to operate like a desktop computer experience.
0:47:30Oh, all right.
0:47:32So you're doing iPad apps and computer experience.
0:47:36This was my next choice, but it feels less likely as a demo than the iPad thing.
0:47:41What's that going to be like?
0:47:42But yeah, the idea, this is the use case where it's like you can be anywhere and connect
0:47:48to your Mac and have a big screen.
0:47:50Here's what I'll ask you for the grading of this.
0:47:54We say like, I see the Mac as part of it, but what if it was, you can also sit down
0:47:59and use a keyboard and mouse to control the iPad apps?
0:48:03That would be fine.
0:48:04Yeah.
0:48:05Well, hmm.
0:48:06I think the way to maybe to judge this is are there peripherals involved?
0:48:14That's the, I feel like to me, that's the desktop computer experience part.
0:48:18Okay.
0:48:19Yeah.
0:48:20I mean, it's like a virtual screen.
0:48:21I was thinking more of it from the perspective of connect to a Mac.
0:48:23Well, I think of that too.
0:48:25I do think that too, because I also do think they'll have that.
0:48:28I think that will be a really cool part of it.
0:48:30But if they say, hey, you can run iPad apps.
0:48:31And in fact, heck with that, you can run a whole giant screen with iPad apps on it.
0:48:38And it's like a virtual screen and you've got a keyboard and a device or whatever.
0:48:43It's like an actual stage manager thing, right?
0:48:46I don't understand why you would do that.
0:48:48That would be weird on the iPad, but yeah, I'm open to it.
0:48:51We'll see.
0:48:52Yeah.
0:48:53I think you would do that because of the typing experience.
0:48:54I think that the air typing...
0:48:56Yeah, it's the pointing that's weirder, but the typing, yeah.
0:48:58Yeah.
0:48:59The typing experience is going to be pretty key, I think, but cool.
0:49:03Although I'm also a believer in this concept of the mixed reality input devices where you
0:49:08have a physical keyboard and it recognizes that you have a physical keyboard and shows
0:49:13it to you either a virtual analog or it just shows you a picture that that part of the
0:49:18screen shows you your virtual keyboard or your real keyboard.
0:49:22Something like that too.
0:49:24It doesn't necessarily have to be pecking an imaginary keyboard.
0:49:27It could be a real keyboard.
0:49:28You could be typing on a keyboard that's not actually connected to the headset itself,
0:49:32but it's picking it up.
0:49:33That would be wild.
0:49:35What's your final pick for the headset?
0:49:37I have one more and it's going to be...
0:49:41You know, if this was a consumer launch where I felt like the consumer story was important,
0:49:48I would probably pick a content choice here like movies or sporting events being mentioned.
0:49:55But as we said before, it's not.
0:49:58It's the developer conference.
0:50:00I think especially content like TV plus movies and sports.
0:50:04Yeah, exactly.
0:50:05I can't imagine that they would spend too much time on that if at all at WWDC.
0:50:10Well, unless they've got a story that's really impressive and they're really proud, but the
0:50:14MLS season will be over before it ships, right?
0:50:18So I'm going to go the other way and say that there'll be a technical announcement and it's
0:50:21going to be an M2 chip powering the headset.
0:50:24Now I could be wrong because they could have an R1 or whatever, but I think it's going
0:50:28to be M2 family and it could be pro or it could be M2 or whatever, but they're going
0:50:33to say something about it being an M2, essentially an M2.
0:50:38I would actually even be okay if what they said was that it's basically an M2.
0:50:43We took the M2 and that's what it's going to be.
0:50:46I was going to say this.
0:50:47That yes, it's either an M2 or they say we took the M2 and here's the R1, right?
0:50:54Just the mentioning of the M2 chip somehow involved in this headset is what you need
0:51:02for that.
0:51:03I'm going to reword this as M2 chip mentioned is helping power the headset.
0:51:07Because I would really expect they will have its own name because realistically they're
0:51:15going to put other things on the chip that are specific to this.
0:51:20They may just say we're bringing the power of the M2 to the headset.
0:51:27Because does it need the same RAM requirement?
0:51:34But what I'm thinking here is first off, fundamentally they have to talk about the specs.
0:51:38They're going to talk about the specs.
0:51:39They don't want to talk to developers about how powerful it is.
0:51:42So I think since the M2 is currently their state of the art, I don't think it's going
0:51:46to be the A whatever because they want to impress you.
0:51:50So they're going to say it's the power of the M2.
0:51:52Whether it's actually the M2 or not, they're going to say it.
0:51:58One of the picks we had in here that neither of us chose, I think for good reason, is if
0:52:02they will or will not mention competitors in this.
0:52:06And I don't know if they will mention competitors by name or not, but I do think that they will
0:52:12want to talk about the power of the headset.
0:52:23And I think that they will maybe reference its power compared to other things.
0:52:31You know, that we put a desktop class processor inside of our mixed reality headset.
0:52:39Exactly.
0:52:40Yeah.
0:52:41No one else has done that.
0:52:42Agreed.
0:52:43Agreed.
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0:53:16If you are subscribed to Upgrade Plus in the Upgrade Plus segment this week, we'll talk
0:53:20about some of the things that were on our long list but didn't make it into our draft
0:53:25predictions to help round out the overall picking that me and Jason think might occur
0:53:30during the WWDC press conference keynote.
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0:53:39content.
0:53:40Thank you if you do.
0:53:42So the other round we are in now.
0:53:46Other includes Mac OS, watch OS, tv OS, services, and all other potential hardware.
0:53:53It's a huge round.
0:53:56And that said, I'd be surprised if more than a couple of points come out of this whole
0:54:02round.
0:54:03Yes, and I struggled to pick mine from this one.
0:54:07Yeah, in fact in the document we only have four, which would be fine with me if we only
0:54:11picked four here.
0:54:13Yes.
0:54:15I think we were only doing four, right?
0:54:17Uh, I think it was gonna be five, but I don't care.
0:54:20Let's do four.
0:54:21Let's do four.
0:54:22Yeah.
0:54:23Okay, I'm gonna swing on this one.
0:54:30Okay.
0:54:31Watch OS now features a widget-like interface.
0:54:34Well, that's a smart choice.
0:54:38I agree.
0:54:39I think I was just doing an interview with somebody for an article they're writing about
0:54:43WWDC in advance and for mainstream media and they're like, "Is there anything else?"
0:54:48And I said, "I don't know.
0:54:49The Apple Watch is rumored to get a big overhaul and I'm actually interested in that.
0:54:53I think it'll be quiet for everything else."
0:54:55So I think this is a good pick.
0:54:56I think that stuff happening on the Watch is a good idea.
0:55:00You know, I think we spoke about it at the time and if this is the case, this may be
0:55:03the most...
0:55:04This is gonna be the most time they spend on any other platform, right?
0:55:10If they've really gone to it and given Watch OS a whole rethink, I think it would be nice
0:55:14to explore that a little bit.
0:55:16That would be my hope, I think, of all of the platforms that I use.
0:55:21This year, it's the one I would like them to do the most with.
0:55:24I'm good with iOS.
0:55:26I'm good with Mac OS, but I think the Watch needs its rethink time and I would really
0:55:33appreciate if they gave it that.
0:55:36Yeah, I agree.
0:55:38I agree.
0:55:39I feel like this is the time.
0:55:40Well, Mike, there's not a lot here that I think is gonna happen, honestly.
0:55:45So I'm just gonna go for the glory.
0:55:47I'm gonna go for the glory.
0:55:48Oh, here he goes, everyone.
0:55:49It's glory time.
0:55:50It is.
0:55:51Get ready.
0:55:52Are you ready?
0:55:53Uh-huh.
0:55:54Mac Pro teaser.
0:55:56You mad, lad.
0:55:58Okay.
0:55:59Mac Pro teaser.
0:56:00Wow.
0:56:01I don't know what form...
0:56:02Nobody knows what form the Mac Pro teaser will take.
0:56:05Maybe it'll just be a knowing glance from John Turnus going, "Remember that Mac Pro?"
0:56:08"Eh, eh."
0:56:09"Remember that promise I made?"
0:56:11"Still promising."
0:56:12Yeah.
0:56:13I don't know.
0:56:14I don't know.
0:56:16Maybe it'll be, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, you don't get a Mac Pro."
0:56:18That would technically be teasing.
0:56:19There's one under this desk, but you can't use it.
0:56:21You can't see it.
0:56:24But if the...
0:56:26Yeah, in fact, honestly, if it's Johnny Stroogy talking about something and next to his desk
0:56:32is a humorously placed Mac Pro that's got a label on it saying "secret" or something,
0:56:37that's probably a Mac Pro teaser.
0:56:38But I just...
0:56:39I'm gonna...
0:56:40I don't think any of these things are gonna happen, so I'm just gonna choose that because
0:56:43I do think there's at least a chance that at the developer conference they will say
0:56:46something about their previous promise for the Mac Pro.
0:56:50Mac Pro teaser.
0:56:51Well, if we're going into Mac Land, I'm gonna pick the thing that I don't think belongs
0:56:57here realistically, but if they're gonna do it, they'll probably need to do it here, and
0:57:04that is the 15-inch MacBook Air.
0:57:06All right.
0:57:07It's not gonna happen.
0:57:08You don't think so?
0:57:09But why not?
0:57:10Maybe it will.
0:57:11What makes you say it will?
0:57:12I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:13I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:14I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:15I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:16I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:17I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:18I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:19I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:20I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:21I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:22I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:23I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:24I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:25I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:26I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:27I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:28I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:29I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:30I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:31I don't think it's gonna happen.
0:57:32I'm proud to say that we're doing a 15 inch version
0:57:35that's gonna be available next week.
0:57:37And then they'll move on and it'll be a press release.
0:57:40But why would you do that if you could wait three weeks
0:57:45and have everybody cover it without covering
0:57:48all the rest of the stuff?
0:57:49I don't think it makes sense to just trickle it out
0:57:52and it doesn't fit the day.
0:57:56It doesn't fit the event, the occasion.
0:57:58- I mean, did the 13 inch?
0:58:02Did the M2 MacBook Air fit the occasion?
0:58:05'Cause they did it last time.
0:58:07- Yeah, but they had room last time.
0:58:09They weren't launching a major new platform is my argument.
0:58:11- Well, I was thinking like,
0:58:13if the hands-on area is happening, right?
0:58:15And the hands-on area includes headsets.
0:58:17And let's imagine the hands-on area includes demos
0:58:19of the headset, which I actually don't think will happen,
0:58:21but let's imagine that it does.
0:58:23Or let's imagine there's like some cycle
0:58:25you can just put it on and just look at it
0:58:26through the thing, right?
0:58:28There's not gonna be a lot of them.
0:58:29They're gonna be pressed to do something
0:58:30while they're waiting.
0:58:32Get them to go take pictures of the MacBook Air instead.
0:58:34- I guess.
0:58:36I'm going to go back to the watch
0:58:40and say smart complications that change based on data.
0:58:43So basically an upgrade to complications
0:58:46so that they are better and the slots will change
0:58:51where the content in them can change based on status.
0:58:54It's a dream I have.
0:58:58- Yeah, I like this.
0:58:59- This is the, like I was one of the judges
0:59:02on the Mac stories, Automation April,
0:59:03and one of the winners was a thing called Yes More Events.
0:59:08And the entire premise of it is you have the,
0:59:10you have a calendar widget that says no more events
0:59:13when you don't have any more events that day.
0:59:15And so what the shortcut does is create an event
0:59:17at the end of the day with other information in it
0:59:19that you might find valuable so that it says something
0:59:23that is valuable instead of no more events.
0:59:26And that's a great example.
0:59:28Or if there's a timer running to show it happening,
0:59:32the question would be, do complications matter as much
0:59:34at all if there are widgets?
0:59:36And I don't know the answer to that question,
0:59:38but I'm going to pick it because this is like a glaring hole
0:59:42in the whole concept of complications.
0:59:44- Oh, I hate this round.
0:59:48- Yep, it's not good.
0:59:53- I have a pick.
0:59:55I'm just going to make this pick,
0:59:56but then I have a clarifying question.
0:59:57- It's kind of fun though.
0:59:58It's kind of fun picking things that you know
1:00:00are just not going to happen and it's not going to matter
1:00:02because your opponent is also going to pick things
1:00:04that don't happen and don't matter.
1:00:05- That's true, that's true.
1:00:06I'm going to go with a new Apple Silicon chip is introduced.
1:00:09- Oh, interesting.
1:00:12- But I have a question.
1:00:13- But it can't be related to the headset
1:00:14because it's another pick.
1:00:15- That's what I was going to say.
1:00:16So should we say for the Mac at the end of that?
1:00:20- Yes, sure, why not?
1:00:22- A new Apple Silicon chip is introduced for the Mac.
1:00:23- That's a ridiculous choice, go ahead.
1:00:25- Well, you know what else is ridiculous, Jason?
1:00:26I'm not a Mac Pro teaser, but if it is the Mac Pro,
1:00:28maybe I piggyback with you.
1:00:31- Okay.
1:00:32- You know, they're like, here's the Mac Pro
1:00:34and it's coming with our most powerful
1:00:36Mac Apple Silicon chip ever.
1:00:39It's called M27, because that's how long
1:00:42you're going to wait for the Mac Pro.
1:00:44It's 23 years away.
1:00:46- Sure, that could happen.
1:00:47You're going to be really mad if I nail
1:00:50a couple of these other picks and that's how I win.
1:00:53- Not really, I'll be impressed.
1:00:56- Honestly, I don't think I'll be mad.
1:00:59- That'd be a miracle if it happens.
1:01:00- Yeah, I'll be too impressed of you
1:01:01if you manage to win that way.
1:01:03- Okay, I'm gonna, we're also like in the,
1:01:11there's no evidence that these things are gonna happen.
1:01:13- Yeah.
1:01:14- But I just wrote about this, we talked about it.
1:01:17It's been a recurring segment here.
1:01:19This is the official podcast of the Quad Box.
1:01:22- Quad Box.
1:01:23- Quad Box!
1:01:26So I'm gonna pick it.
1:01:27Apple recently brought the Quad Box to the TV app.
1:01:31I'm gonna say TV OS announcement,
1:01:33big headlining TV OS announcement,
1:01:36multi-view support across the operating system.
1:01:38Apps will have to be right into the API,
1:01:42just like they wrote into the picture in picture API.
1:01:45Although maybe it'll actually use the same thing
1:01:47as the picture in picture API,
1:01:48but you'll be able to put multiple items in the Quad Box.
1:01:54The Quad Box.
1:01:55It's a dream I have.
1:01:57- Jason, I'm gonna just make my next pick
1:02:00so I can talk about your pick.
1:02:02My pick, my final pick in the other picks
1:02:05is that TV OS is not mentioned during the keynote at all.
1:02:10You might get your Quad Box,
1:02:12but you know what you're not gonna find out about it?
1:02:14In the keynote.
1:02:15- In the keynote, yeah, I think you might be right.
1:02:18I love a not mentioned pick, I love a buzzkill pick.
1:02:20- Why?
1:02:21I mean, look, I love TV OS.
1:02:22I'm the official reviewer on the connected podcast
1:02:26of TV OS every year.
1:02:27If they spend any time talking about TV OS,
1:02:31I think they're wasting their time.
1:02:33It is a platform that even if you do something like say,
1:02:38here's the Quad Box,
1:02:39all of the services that are the most popular
1:02:43don't use Apple's playing interface anymore.
1:02:47Max just dropped it, right?
1:02:49The new Max app.
1:02:50There are more and more apps not using
1:02:52the official Apple player than ever.
1:02:55It just feels like it continues going on and on and on.
1:02:58I just don't see it happening.
1:02:59- What if they have a partner?
1:03:00What if they bring up YouTube TV or they bring up ESPN
1:03:03and say, yeah, we implemented this and it's great.
1:03:06It just uses picture in picture interface and you do this
1:03:08and then you can see our stuff next to Apple stuff, yay.
1:03:11- Yeah, I mean, imagine if they did that.
1:03:14Imagine if they did it during this keynote.
1:03:16When they gonna speak YouTube time,
1:03:18like come on YouTube, talk about it.
1:03:19- They gotta talk about something.
1:03:21They gotta talk about something, right?
1:03:23Well, my next pick was gonna be TV OS related
1:03:28because why not?
1:03:29And now I'm looking at the picks
1:03:30that I thought I was gonna pick
1:03:31and I think they're all ridiculous.
1:03:33And so I'm just gonna go off the board completely
1:03:36to another random thing and I'm gonna say, you know what?
1:03:40You know what's greater than a Mac Pro teaser?
1:03:42Third party watch faces.
1:03:45- My word Jason Snow.
1:03:46- Third party watch faces, boom, done.
1:03:50Just watch, just watch Mike, Mac Pro teaser,
1:03:53third party watch faces.
1:03:54I win the draft by one.
1:03:56That'll be amazing.
1:03:57- Honestly, if you do it, I mean, no one's gonna be mad.
1:04:01- I know, game recognize game, right?
1:04:03- I guess I'll have to.
1:04:08All right, final regular round, stagecraft.
1:04:12- Stagecraft.
1:04:15I wanna, the reason you may ask yourself
1:04:17why stagecraft picks?
1:04:18Well, one is if we put these in other,
1:04:20all of our picks would have been stagecraft.
1:04:22- Correct.
1:04:23- And so we're gonna force ourselves
1:04:25to make just two stagecraft picks.
1:04:28- And I'm gonna go with the gimme.
1:04:30The guaranteed pick of all of the picks
1:04:34that could ever occur during any WWDC,
1:04:38Craig Federighi appearance.
1:04:40- Yeah, I know, I'm surprised that's even allowed
1:04:42on the list, yes, it's there.
1:04:45Nevertheless, we keep it going.
1:04:48- Yeah, Craig Federighi appearance.
1:04:49I think that's the best one.
1:04:50I'm, you know, you can, I might be proven wrong,
1:04:57but I think you can never go wrong with game demos.
1:04:59- This is my second one.
1:05:00They're gonna, I think at least have at least one VR game demo.
1:05:05- Yeah, I think they have to.
1:05:08- There was a rumor from Mark Gorman about
1:05:13Hideo Kojima being involved in No Man's Sky.
1:05:15That was absolute hogwash.
1:05:17Like he's not involved in that game at all.
1:05:19But No Man's Sky is a game that was,
1:05:22like Hideo Kojima has been rumored
1:05:23to be around Cupertino this week.
1:05:25So maybe he's gonna be doing something for the headset.
1:05:28But No Man's Sky, which was a game shown off ages ago,
1:05:32is coming to Apple Silicon,
1:05:33coming to Apple because of Apple Silicon,
1:05:35it is yet to arrive,
1:05:36but No Man's Sky has a very robust VR mode.
1:05:38So it could be a very easy slot into this.
1:05:43- My second and final pick in Stagecraft,
1:05:47Metaverse is not said.
1:05:50- Metaverse is not said.
1:05:52- Yep.
1:05:53- I think that's pretty good.
1:05:55I mean, there might be a joke.
1:05:57If the word appears anywhere in the keynote,
1:06:00you lose this pick.
1:06:01- Correct.
1:06:01I don't think that's a pretty good pick.
1:06:05- To mention it is basically acknowledging Facebook
1:06:11and their lead, right?
1:06:13And I just don't think they're gonna do it.
1:06:15- I think you're probably right.
1:06:16I think the reason that this is risky
1:06:18is only that they may be like,
1:06:20"You've heard of the Metaverse.
1:06:21Well, forget that, right?
1:06:23That dismissive of it."
1:06:24- I don't know what's gonna happen.
1:06:26- But I think you're right.
1:06:28Okay, here's my last Stagecraft pick.
1:06:29I mentioned this earlier,
1:06:33you wanna just put it out there.
1:06:35The way I phrased it is explicit exhortation
1:06:38to watch the State of the Union for OS details.
1:06:40But really what I'm saying is somewhere in this event,
1:06:43I feel like they're gonna say,
1:06:45"We have a whole lot more OS things to announce."
1:06:47They're in the State of the Union,
1:06:48which we'll post later this afternoon.
1:06:50Something.
1:06:51There will be a little footnote,
1:06:52'cause I feel like this is the kind of event
1:06:54where they're kicking off WWDC,
1:06:56but they're not gonna give as much time to the OS
1:06:58as maybe they would normally.
1:07:00And they're gonna be like pointing
1:07:01at the State of the Union,
1:07:02saying, "We made another video that's for boring OS things
1:07:06that only developers care about.
1:07:07Go watch that for more."
1:07:09Because it's too packed.
1:07:10So I'm just gonna, it's Stagecraft.
1:07:12- Final round of the draft is the Mac OS.
1:07:17My least favorite of every possible thing.
1:07:18- Let's dive into California geography.
1:07:21- Is the Mac OS naming round,
1:07:23where we each get two potential names that we can give
1:07:27that may form the Mac OS version.
1:07:31And there is one point on the line for this.
1:07:34I will just at this point publicly make my protest
1:07:36for the existence of this round,
1:07:38because I believe Jason Snell
1:07:40has an advantage over me significantly.
1:07:42It's almost as if, imagine they decided
1:07:45to name Mac OS after English towns.
1:07:49- So here's the thing.
1:07:51This is why I disagree with you.
1:07:51One is, I know too much about California.
1:07:55And I think that that makes me overthink it,
1:07:58because I'm thinking of like,
1:08:00like with Ventura, it was an example where I'm like,
1:08:02ah, Ventura is not that interesting.
1:08:05Like I've been to Ventura County,
1:08:07and it was Ventura, right?
1:08:09'Cause it's like a good name.
1:08:10It's like an interesting name.
1:08:12So I think that's part of the challenge here is,
1:08:14I'm overthinking it, 'cause I'm thinking about the places.
1:08:17Also, I'm providing you a list of things
1:08:19I think it might be for you to pick from.
1:08:21- Yeah, but I don't know what any of them means, you know?
1:08:23But anyway, anyway. - You can look it up.
1:08:24You can look them up.
1:08:26Or is your ignorance and just looking at it as a brand name,
1:08:28what Apple is also trying to do for people.
1:08:31'Cause most of Apple's customers don't know the names
1:08:34of these things either, right?
1:08:35So maybe you're better.
1:08:37- You're making a good argument.
1:08:41- That doesn't matter.
1:08:42- I still don't like the round, but your argument's good.
1:08:45- I get it.
1:08:45- I'm gonna go with, should we do this one each, right?
1:08:49So like, I do one, you do one, right?
1:08:51I'm gonna go with what I think may have been
1:08:52my favorite last year,
1:08:54'cause I actually do think it would be a nice name.
1:08:57Mac OS Tahoe.
1:08:59- Yes.
1:09:00- I just like it. - It's a good name.
1:09:01- I think it sounds nice.
1:09:03My understanding, and I feel like the little I know
1:09:06about Tahoe is that it's great in the summer
1:09:08and in the winter.
1:09:09So there's probably some good imagery you could get, right?
1:09:11'Cause it's got like the lakes and also the mountains.
1:09:15Is that correct?
1:09:16- Yep.
1:09:17- So that'd be a nice one.
1:09:18- I am going to go with,
1:09:24so the last two have been Monterey and Ventura, right?
1:09:27Both of which are coastal counties.
1:09:32And Apple's never been afraid to pick a complicated name
1:09:37that frustrates everybody who's not in California.
1:09:41So I'm gonna pick with my first pick Mendocino.
1:09:45- Hate it.
1:09:46The way you spell this, like not you,
1:09:49but the way it is spelled, M-E-N-D-O-C-I-N-O.
1:09:52No, this is terrible. - Mendocino.
1:09:54- I don't like it.
1:09:55And you know what?
1:09:56- And Federica will say Mendocino.
1:09:58- Mendocino.
1:09:59- Mendocino.
1:10:00- My second pick, see, I don't know if I should do this.
1:10:03So like I've made my picks and I was like,
1:10:05I went and looked at last year's.
1:10:07What I wanna pick as my second pick is exactly the same
1:10:09as the second pick I made last time.
1:10:12- Okay.
1:10:12- So I would end up picking the same two things
1:10:14two years in a row.
1:10:15I think I'm just gonna go with my gut and do it.
1:10:17Because again, I just think it's a good name.
1:10:20Mac OS Golden Gate.
1:10:23- Golden Gate's a good name.
1:10:24It is a good name.
1:10:25- I do wonder if they would save this for like a year
1:10:29when they're really bridging it with iPad OS.
1:10:31But I'm gonna go with Mac OS Golden Gate.
1:10:34I like Tahoe and Golden Gate.
1:10:36I'm going with two names that I just think sound good.
1:10:39And I would like, although history has shown
1:10:42they will not do that.
1:10:43Mendocino.
1:10:47- I, oh, there are still a bunch of good names here.
1:10:50That's why I think it's good
1:10:52that they went to the California names.
1:10:53There's still a bunch of good names here.
1:10:55- Mac OS North Antonshire.
1:10:58- Hello mate.
1:10:59This is Mac OS Islington.
1:11:02Wow, this is a tough one.
1:11:10- Can I just say, I love so much
1:11:15that we still have Mac OS Alcatraz on this list
1:11:17as if they would ever do that.
1:11:19- We also have Mac OS Death Valley on this list
1:11:21which you really would probably not name
1:11:24an operating system after, but it's on the list.
1:11:26'Cause why not?
1:11:27- I'm gonna go with Mammoth.
1:11:28Mac OS Mammoth.
1:11:30- I like that one. - Mammoth Lakes
1:11:31is a volcanic area and a ski resort and a summer destination
1:11:36and it's a fun name and it's an actual word
1:11:38that people know.
1:11:39And so Mac OS Mammoth, why not?
1:11:42- You know, I wondered about Mammoth,
1:11:44but I mean, I don't think they would care about this,
1:11:46but I just feel like Mastodon has really wrapped up
1:11:49all of that branding for now,
1:11:51but they probably don't care about that.
1:11:53- But they would just have mountains and snow and stuff.
1:11:56- Mammoth I could see and I would like.
1:11:58Like Mac OS Mammoth is a name that I would enjoy.
1:12:01I would be so mad if they called it Mendocino
1:12:03because I just don't like that at all.
1:12:05- It's Mendocino.
1:12:06- There you go.
1:12:07Well, I'm gonna call it Mendocino.
1:12:08- Indochino.
1:12:10- That's what I'm gonna call it.
1:12:11Mac OS Cappuccino.
1:12:13And it doesn't work for me, but they work with Mavericks.
1:12:17So the company that chose Mavericks
1:12:19may choose literally anything
1:12:22because Mavericks just sounded bad.
1:12:24Mac OS Mavericks.
1:12:26The fact that it has an S on the end just did not work.
1:12:29- And also I'll say as a Californian,
1:12:32nobody had ever heard of that place.
1:12:34- What was it? A beach?
1:12:35It was like a specific beach, right?
1:12:37- It was like a ski.
1:12:37It was like a surf area.
1:12:40- Mm-hmm.
1:12:41- No.
1:12:42- That's the draft.
1:12:45- That's it.
1:12:45- We did it.
1:12:47All the picks are out there.
1:12:48- All that's left is the scoring.
1:12:51- Which will happen.
1:12:52- And a bit of recriminations.
1:12:54- The scoring will occur on the ground
1:12:58in which the picks will have come true.
1:13:02I don't know, well, I'm basically saying
1:13:03it will be at Apple Park next week.
1:13:04- Yeah, yeah.
1:13:06- Which I'm super pumped for.
1:13:07Very excited to see, and a bunch of friends
1:13:10I haven't seen in a long time.
1:13:12- Long time.
1:13:13- And so we're looking forward to being in California,
1:13:16soaking up the sun, and being inside of Apple Park,
1:13:20watching the keynote, along with my friend, Jason Snell.
1:13:23If you want to send us your feedback,
1:13:25follow up and questions, you can go to upgradefeedback.com.
1:13:28If you have things you want us to talk about
1:13:30in the keynote, you can send them in there.
1:13:33I will pre-warn people that if I do actually
1:13:37make it to the keynote, I will be very excited
1:13:40to talk about my keynote experience.
1:13:41So just be aware of that.
1:13:43That we're gonna be talking, obviously, about things,
1:13:46but I will be a little excited bunny
1:13:47and will want to talk about how happy I am
1:13:49to have achieved a 15-year goal.
1:13:53But in the meantime, and I'm sure during WWDC itself,
1:13:56you will be wanting to keep locked to sixcolors.com
1:14:00to check out Jason's work.
1:14:01You can also hear Jason over at the incomparable.com
1:14:04and here on Relay FM.
1:14:05You can listen to me, my show's on Relay FM as well,
1:14:09and check out my work at cortexbrand.com.
1:14:11You can find us on Mastodon.
1:14:12Jason is @jasonell on zeppelin.flights.
1:14:15I am @imike on mike.social.
1:14:17And you can find the show as @upgrade on relayfm.social,
1:14:21where you can watch video clips along with our TikTok
1:14:24and Instagram accounts where we are @upgraderelay on both.
1:14:28Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus.
1:14:31Thank you to Nom Nom and Dark Noise
1:14:33for their support of this week's episode.
1:14:35And most importantly, thank you for listening.
1:14:38We will speak to you after the WWDC keynote.
1:14:41Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.
1:14:43- See you next week, Mike.
1:14:45(upbeat music)
1:14:47(upbeat music)
1:14:50(upbeat music)
1:14:53(upbeat music)
1:14:55(upbeat music)
1:14:58(drumming)
1:15:00Thank you for watching.