The Accidental Tech Podcast

148: Your Feelings Are Real

 

  I was looking at something and then jumped away that the kind of experience [TS]

  you wanna provide me pull off so there is actually a term just like there is [TS]

  everything a business like parking lot and all staff all gortari how much [TS]

  talked about for the concept I think I just grabbed an earlier show people in [TS]

  middle management are motivated to make things that are bad not sound quite as [TS]

  bad when I talk to their boss because if you're telling your bad boss bad news [TS]

  about tobacco why is this bad news happening in the reason we pay you it [TS]

  make bad things that happen and so as it goes up the management James say you [TS]

  start with the truth down the leaf nodes but I'ma get to the CEO is a disastrous [TS]

  from doesn't sound so bad and a terrible that is green shifting which is a plan [TS]

  red shifting just like any other galaxies are racing away from us and and [TS]

  the wavelength of light coming from stretch towards the red side of the [TS]

  visible light spectrum saw the galaxies stars tougher red shifted green shifting [TS]

  is getting nicer as they go up there are charged so that's a great time had not [TS]

  heard it before but it's a real thing I've not heard that either I never heard [TS]

  it you can use it you can use green shifting on a year or China home isn't [TS]

  quite deep enough maybe like cops that something terrible outside a Carlton [TS]

  something gross when you report it to Adam you can say all hops just got a [TS]

  little dirty and then when Adam [TS]

  by 150% fun outside and then [TS]

  cops encapsulated in green shifted that obviously pretty much happens like this [TS]

  really is is very plausible of a situation to happen and how to get our [TS]

  household Raffaele rate in this is an interesting take on something we talked [TS]

  about last episode about you know walking out and about software quality [TS]

  and having like Snow Leopard releases are you just work on bugs and stuff and [TS]

  the the concept of year the releases came up and what I was arguing with like [TS]

  it's really arbitrary if you're a discipline software organization and [TS]

  that by becoming his last year's all you're doing is changing the discipline [TS]

  from working on something until it's done by justice sticking to it [TS]

  schedule and saying what it in and what about that schedule and anything that [TS]

  gets pushed to the next release and so on and so forth that's night and [TS]

  Raffaele gave the example that should have thought of that is true for a lot [TS]

  of the software used today instead of doing fewer avisas how about doing more [TS]

  releases as in continuous reviews kind of like Chrome browser they call [TS]

  evergreen that are sort of like mandatory auto updating and you don't [TS]

  really care about the version is like none of us know off hand or chrome [TS]

  Bergeron run whatever the latest this anti-crime updates all the time and [TS]

  updates whenever they feel like it if instead of having yearly releases and [TS]

  saying well that's that's that's that's too much of a rush make them two-year [TS]

  get rid of the whole concept of like this big important released its where [TS]

  the inter press release and bullet points and instead just do small [TS]

  incremental train its all time I think jeff Atwood had a park about this couple [TS]

  years ago the Internet version but basically the same thing that most [TS]

  people are familiar with the web browsers where version stopped mattering [TS]

  is just the software exists and it continued to continuously update itself [TS]

  and hopefully gets better and that's a different a different mindset where [TS]

  you're making lots of small changes which are easier to make and the [TS]

  consequences of screening upper smaller because then you're sure you then you [TS]

  know what it is screwed it up like if you made one small change and all of a [TS]

  sudden you know there was some huge performance regression and some damn [TS]

  operation I crash happened with chrome 43 recently you know what changed in [TS]

  that and you you can really impact because it's just one small change from [TS]

  the previous version and B if you have a chance of fixing it was you know exactly [TS]

  what small thing it was so if you make a series of small changes over time it's [TS]

  potentially better for your customers and also better for you in terms of [TS]

  knowing what you've done to screw things up so I kind of like this idea and [TS]

  looking at the software that we use more and more of it so I swear you said you [TS]

  updates manually then became auto updating we're not quite to the infant [TS]

  version for all software available but moving away from ikea.com marketing [TS]

  releases were the only reason you have a big thing is it's kind of like a [TS]

  tradition or a holdover from when you bought things in cardboard boxes and of [TS]

  course there had to be a big deal because you have to put a new set of [TS]

  cardboard boxes and new art and cover like doing nearly didn't really says is [TS]

  really just kind of a holdover from that and it seems like the trend is away from [TS]

  that and more towards continuous releases and I think that I'm intrigued [TS]

  by his idea like to subscribe to the newsletter the the upside I said like [TS]

  that it only doing these days regular basis for marketing purposes [TS]

  purposes but marketing is not nothing right if our goal was to move to a sort [TS]

  of a news release cycle for major products that means it gives up the perk [TS]

  of being able to make grand announcements at WWDC some kind of press [TS]

  conference for the invite the press out to show them something you can't get [TS]

  that anymore you don't get the big bump in the press you don't get the Apple [TS]

  today announced blah blah blah blah blah maybe they get that less for software [TS]

  and hardware but that is there is a downside to this and part of the reason [TS]

  Apple keeps doing these markings releases is because it's it's worth it [TS]

  to them to get the extra hype and publicity and get people excited and hat [TS]

  and seemed to make significant progress I got a lot of what we thought about [TS]

  Apple's like one day they appear and they say hey we've got this great idea [TS]

  and look at this new thing the new thing if we got that same thing in seven [TS]

  hundred steps [TS]

  you know instead of one big bang it's less impressive even though we end up in [TS]

  the same spot so I think there has to be a factor I i still think it's worth it [TS]

  but that's that's the calculus that have to do internally if they want to move [TS]

  this type of system for software release alright and Eric Michaels overhead some [TS]

  interesting thoughts on iphone battery thinness yes last week we're talking [TS]

  about the battery case and I of course complain that I always do that the [TS]

  iPhone battery life is not good enough and one of the theories presented was [TS]

  that maybe the battery case was kind of like apple filling out the market for a [TS]

  little more info on whether people really do want more battery life in [TS]

  their iPhones in order to inform future decisions about the iPhone designs and [TS]

  her friend Eric Michael Bowden to point out that you know but this time the [TS]

  iPhone seven is almost certainly already completely done and designed the new [TS]

  iPhone battery cases a signal that the battery life for the iPhone seven will [TS]

  probably the same or worse than the iPhone 6 and success you have to wait [TS]

  until the inevitably figure i Phone 7 released next year to introduce a [TS]

  battery case the press would have jumped on them saying improved battery life in [TS]

  the iPhone seven to be adequate now if Apple releases new battery case for the [TS]

  iPhone seven Apple battery cases will be old news because they of course just [TS]

  released this one for the iPhone 6 in other words this is the first Apple [TS]

  battery case not the last [TS]

  so that that all that from your friend I think that is pretty much on point I [TS]

  think he's almost certainly right that the seven is almost certainly done or or [TS]

  close enough to done that they wouldn't be making major changes to things like [TS]

  how large the battery is because that's a pretty major physical change to it to [TS]

  a design I'm guessing this is maybe not quite planned out quite that well but [TS]

  more like the battery case was dead [TS]

  seems like a band-aid solution it seems like something that Apple did not expect [TS]

  maybe even one year ago to be making and releasing now but that they they [TS]

  identified a problem / opportunity and made it to address that but I think he's [TS]

  right that there probably are not going to be meaningfully addressing battery [TS]

  life in the iPhone seven and if they were released this because they often [TS]

  seven gonna be out in you know what seven or eight months nine months so [TS]

  that you know apples apples very patient and so they were really good [TS]

  address this problem in the iPhone seven and give us a big chunk of battery life [TS]

  improvement they probably wouldn't release the battery case today or at [TS]

  least it would make it a lot less likely they would so i i think is right and I [TS]

  think we're going to have to live with it you know that people who want more [TS]

  battery power either gonna go go to the plus or just use external battery cases [TS]

  are battery packs like this theory only works if you assume Apple is the only [TS]

  company in the world that makes iPhone accessories battery cases have been a [TS]

  thing for ever like there is no idea that there is no additional wait for [TS]

  Apple making a battery cases like big cell battery cases in their stores [TS]

  people use them all the time it's a thing like Apple's just making one of [TS]

  them because if I got around to making one of them of course there is going to [TS]

  be like of course it's going to be like that's that's the way it goes right and [TS]

  predicting the battery life will be similar [TS]

  well it's been similar for many years now that's not a big surprise either I [TS]

  just don't make the leap always there for releasing this really is a way to [TS]

  avoid appearing to say that the iPhone 72 good battery life is gonna have the [TS]

  same as you know and the success within a small margin of error in its gonna be [TS]

  thinner of the phones I think it's a status quo and a lot of people reporting [TS]

  also like say no Apple makes a better case that let them know more information [TS]

  about who buys battery cases but they sell them in their stores they already [TS]

  happened informations they could be charging the battery cases they sell [TS]

  themselves from third parties just as well as they can be charging their own [TS]

  so I think Apple has a pretty good feel of who wants a battery case and what [TS]

  sizes are the most popular and it just made one for the same reason it makes [TS]

  leather case in the silicon case and cases for iPads and other accessories [TS]

  they make because of the things that people want to buy an Apple make one for [TS]

  you and you can buy from them and their margins are probably better than anyone [TS]

  else because they get good pricing on parts and they charge like 10 or 20 more [TS]

  bucks and everyone else for their logo it is also worth considering you know [TS]

  the the rumors are getting pretty strong as a lot of smoke and even some evidence [TS]

  now that there will be a new foreign China phone design soon we don't know [TS]

  how soon maybe it's in the spring maybe in the fall who knows doesn't matter [TS]

  that much to be honest but there there is certainly a lot of smoke by these [TS]

  rumors so there is very likely to be fired this is very likely to be a real [TS]

  thing that is happening and it's essential to make a new foreign if the [TS]

  rumors are true the foreign film will have the approximate internals of the [TS]

  iPhone's success now if you look at any kind of bad battery life graphs for the [TS]

  iPhones [TS]

  there was actually a noticeable jump from the five master the six and we saw [TS]

  we saw this for years beforehand with Android phones that are bigger than all [TS]

  the iPhones when you make a big phone you have room for more battery the [TS]

  reason why the six plus gets more battery life is because it has a battery [TS]

  that something like fifty percent larger than the six because there's room for it [TS]

  without making it too [TS]

  obscenely thick or two or two weirdly heavy for its for its proportional size [TS]

  and it out runs the screen like the screen up bigger to take more power but [TS]

  the more battery out runs the more screens so the bigger you make it like [TS]

  the more the battery wins exactly so it does look very likely they will be a [TS]

  foreign phone but if we follow that that advantage now then backwards back to [TS]

  making foreign phones again a four-inch phone with Apple's current priorities [TS]

  for thinness and and the expectation like the 5 S's way thicker than the six [TS]

  and the 62 has more battery life and because of that the ratio of the volume [TS]

  now they're not going to make a new foreign phone that's a stick of the 5s [TS]

  again it would of course be thinner it would probably be more like the iPod [TS]

  Touch oriole not not at the end but radios but it will probably be more like [TS]

  the success thickness but just in a smaller body that small foreign assuming [TS]

  it's real and assuming it's coming out soon and assuming it has the guts of a [TS]

  success would probably get pretty mediocre battery life even worse than [TS]

  the success I would guess well there's any other tool that they have their [TS]

  disposal but they've been leveraging is make it to the stuff inside upon less [TS]

  power so one thing is obviously if they do you know another process [TS]

  on the immune system on a chip that's some savings there the other rumors have [TS]

  been reading about as probably not the iPhone seven but the thing to think [TS]

  about the future is moving too old for the screens which is another power [TS]

  savings and you know you have to think what is left is taking power in the [TS]

  phones but there's send and receive for the cell signal which are not entirely [TS]

  sure how much you can do about that because a certain point you have to have [TS]

  a signal of a certain strength just to talk to the towers and stuff writes that [TS]

  there's the screen and there is the increasing the small number of chips on [TS]

  the thing most dominated by the system-on-a-chip and maybe I guess the [TS]

  RAM and so you get your biggest bang for the buck of making make you scream [TS]

  tickets power making system-on-chip to US power and that's what Apple has [TS]

  always been doing over time and so that is their tool to perhaps eventually [TS]

  outrun the tennis you know they're getting thinner overtime right so far [TS]

  they've just been kinda like on this night stage and I think you're right [TS]

  that the that they're not going to make it 4-1 as big as the 5s and therefore [TS]

  will probably get certainly will get worried about her license XXS eyes on [TS]

  certainly that well against works than the five wells gonna have a way more [TS]

  power efficient system 5 bested but then again I don't know they could under [TS]

  clock at the have to have tools at their disposal to set to essentially pick the [TS]

  battery life but I don't think it's crazy to say that the smartphone is [TS]

  going to get less gonna have low battery life just in general and and that also [TS]

  if you assume all this to be true that we are speculating on here that also is [TS]

  more explanation why Apple want to get into the battery case market now and [TS]

  can't get prepared for it and then when they released the new iPhone 6-4 [TS]

  whatever you know when they release a new small phone then Apple already makes [TS]

  battery cases and this is a thing that you can do if you do if you need more [TS]

  battery life will be offer it isn't a design flaw you see you could just buy [TS]

  this accessory if we make for this phone that will be smart and right there long [TS]

  time so I think it makes a lot of sense you know looking at them the most likely [TS]

  reasons why the battery case and as we said last week anything and [TS]

  and as as other people pointed out especially our friend John Gruber it [TS]

  really is not a terrible products it's just a little bit weird and and there's [TS]

  it's it's not that great to look at and it's a little as a few questionable [TS]

  design aspects to it but the functionality of everyone says seems to [TS]

  be pretty decent on that note I wanna do equipment a follow-up on my soul a memo [TS]

  case they ordered during last week's show now I actually got a chance to use [TS]

  it for a few days over the last week and it first of all it's not enough I [TS]

  certified so what that means is that Apple has not given three made for [TS]

  iPhone stamp of approval it basically means that Apple is not certified to be [TS]

  compatible and safe and everything else to use iPhones so there's some risk [TS]

  involved here and if I were using a case every single day I might reconsider [TS]

  using one that was not enough I certified and its weird like the new [TS]

  lightning connector on the inside that it uses the phone it's obviously like [TS]

  not a real Apple lightning plug this is obviously like a knock off in every way [TS]

  it's a knock off that's one of the reasons why it is shaped unlike any [TS]

  other iPhone country ever seen in the way it kind of like a cuddly mood [TS]

  lighting port down so it charges through lightning and just end it has no chin [TS]

  the only battery case I found it has no chin not even Apple's manages to do that [TS]

  but it's probably some good reason why within a month I suspect other people [TS]

  can't do that if I certified probably something about like you know how much [TS]

  stress can take a look kind of design it has to have something has to be or [TS]

  something [TS]

  overall it is surprisingly thin and light it is not as thin as like you know [TS]

  the apple of her case or anything you do notice that it does add thickness but it [TS]

  doesn't have a lot of size and so it actually feels pretty good to use it [TS]

  does not feel intrusive in the pocket it's an iPhone 3G / 3G s plastic feels [TS]

  pretty good to grip in the hand it is done so having trying a new battery [TS]

  cases maybe now appreciate that the one apple says call there's the smart [TS]

  battery case you know this one you have to turn it on and turn it off manually [TS]

  it does not turn itself off when the phone because under percent [TS]

  you know it or or when it's down to zero whatever they get it doesn't do anything [TS]

  smart it is literally just like you manually apply power to your phone when [TS]

  you feel like it and then you turn it off when you feel like your phone is [TS]

  charged enough it is done it is cheaper it is not enough I certified that being [TS]

  said it does work it is really small and it is really light and it feels good in [TS]

  the hand so i think im really bring it to compensate for the next nine months [TS]

  or so until the next phone comes out and ask me again how it is after the BBC [TS]

  double check your pockets or smoke while you're not the first time i charge my [TS]

  eye I was intentionally doing it during a long car ride the other day so that I [TS]

  could feel that was getting too hot the best place to have a fire is a moving [TS]

  car yet totally so anyway yeah not not terrible I would say for 50 bucks it is [TS]

  reasonably priced and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it just because [TS]

  I'm a little scared that it because it is not certified and because it is it is [TS]

  very nice coffee and a little scared of what it might do to someone's phone but [TS]

  I'm willing to take the risk of my own phone so that's that's useless and I i [TS]

  think I'd rather carry this then the six plus because I've determine the sex bus [TS]

  to be too large for most of the time I would rather carry this in the six plus [TS]

  we'll see what happens to the seven design and he would you bring this [TS]

  instead of your little pocket thing with the attached USB cable you know your [TS]

  pocket battery thing the pocket battery thing is going to have a much longer [TS]

  life because the pocket battery thing is going to work with Afghan seven and this [TS]

  won't you know that one and a half the price and a little more than three [TS]

  thousand million powers that the vote ready something ultra-slim something [TS]

  something with a built-in mic cable which is awesome you know that 125 bucks [TS]

  I still think is a certified so I would definitely recommend that one if you're [TS]

  looking forward to buy but if you want an actual battery case and not a [TS]

  separate thing that you have to carry around in your phone this is a decent [TS]

  case but if your gonna be using it that rarely I might even say go with Apple's [TS]

  just because it's officially supported a little bit smarter but I I don't regret [TS]

  buying it from my very limited needs out of battery cases usually I don't [TS]

  case battery case for the in a few weeks a year they really want one [TS]

  this is probably fine but if you can use it everyday I would say maybe get an [TS]

  improviser to find something it smart idea [TS]

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  beautiful what are we really talking about tonight you wanna talk about how [TS]

  the Apple TV is making no money for app developers like every other app store on [TS]

  the platform they actually know let me try it again [TS]

  would like to talk about the challenges that are facing AppleTV developers in [TS]

  China I'm trying to make it would take more positive spin on this so let's [TS]

  let's talk about this this is something that you know in recent weeks we've been [TS]

  very critical of some stuff Apple has done I have heard all year from people [TS]

  calling me out for being too negative about Apple and and everything and we've [TS]

  got a little bit with the whole show it's been a lot of me though and it's [TS]

  rare that I have been very negative I wanted to kind of explain a little bit [TS]

  about why this touch arcade article that came out about two weeks ago [TS]

  editor's note to the popular games in the Apple TV after making $100 a day or [TS]

  less a worrying trend appears and the whole article is in it's it's it's [TS]

  pretty Randy and it isn't all fair criticism but there is a lot of fair [TS]

  criticism in it and I think it's it's worth considering for both Apple nothing [TS]

  able care or read it but for both Apple and for Apple developers like us it is [TS]

  worth considering some of these things and and kinda how that relates to Apple [TS]

  negativity and there is also a really good episode of Control Alt Delete which [TS]

  is a podcast with Patel and Walt Mossberg there is an episode I think [TS]

  this week alan dershowitz about kind of like being disappointed with with modern [TS]

  tech and kind of being burnt out on like where modern tech is going and kinda [TS]

  like whether we're like a kind of a slow period of of true innovation and so I [TS]

  think all this kind of combines with with what I perceive with with with [TS]

  Apple's current problems of just there's a lot of stuff that's like a 1.0 state [TS]

  or that's being pretty clearly neglected for a long time but I think I think what [TS]

  has happened is we had such a massive [TS]

  years of advancement over the last decade so much advancement even even the [TS]

  last two decades really there's been so much advancement of computing so much [TS]

  advancement in the web in phones and apps and how we compute what we compute [TS]

  on all in all the various options we have the how good the hardware is how [TS]

  good the software is how good the services are we have made tremendous [TS]

  strides but I think over the last I don't know three to five years I think [TS]

  we have picked so much of the low-hanging fruit already in in [TS]

  technology is that yes there there are things we can keep doing to keep making [TS]

  things better and keep uncovering new ground but I think it's getting harder [TS]

  and the number of asterisks the you have to accept on everything it seems to be [TS]

  getting larger because again like we've done so much of the easy stuff already [TS]

  and that's not to say there isn't anything left to do but I think the [TS]

  gains are going to be harder to get so for example if we near the standard is [TS]

  obviously a big sprawling feeling that hard to let me focus down for now to the [TS]

  Apple product line we are now at the point where the hardware is so capable [TS]

  that we are mostly used limited by like dumb physical attributes how big are we [TS]

  willing to make the thing so that we could have a screen is big enough to see [TS]

  or talk show or keyboard it's big enough to actually used I think what we're [TS]

  seeing is like once we start pushing the boundaries of well what if we want to do [TS]

  more on our I've had sore but what if you want to make our laptops even [TS]

  smaller an even lighter what we want to compute on our wrists [TS]

  we keep having to a disastrous like in order to compute and our wrists we had [TS]

  to have this weird the computer which is weird interface on it that can do some [TS]

  things but is really slow and is kinda nice for something but has to recover [TS]

  and reliable and and it's always weird stuff will be seen with laptops is w you [TS]

  want to push it so small and so light and so thin that now it has to be really [TS]

  slow and we have to get rid of all the ports which do occasionally come in [TS]

  handy and also the keyboard has to be here is really controversial very [TS]

  ultra-thin design that has a lot of problems for a lot of people [TS]

  and with the iPad pro this is this amazing device for people who do work on [TS]

  their iPad but it's so big that you can I can't hold it like you used to hold an [TS]

  iPad and you might not be able to you know do a lot of things that other iPads [TS]

  can do very easily with it because it's so big and so we're starting to hit [TS]

  these areas in which that we're just hitting tradeoff [TS]

  left and right like everything has asked to respond at everything has exceptions [TS]

  in the olden days we would have a smaller number of of more generalized [TS]

  products you know you'd you'd have a Mac and whether you got like an iBook or a [TS]

  paramount g5 they could do roughly the same kinds of things it would just like [TS]

  to know how fast you want how much space you need that kind of stuff now we're [TS]

  getting these products that are that are differentiated not by like minor [TS]

  suspected that but by like massive differences in how they can be used what [TS]

  they can do what they can't do or what they're really you know difficult to do [TS]

  with and so it just seems like we're fragmenting everything in the process [TS]

  were like we're starting a lot of things with with a weird one point was we are [TS]

  ignoring a lot of other things that's too much to manage the old and boring [TS]

  stuff is so if there is a lot being lost here and now to the point where people [TS]

  have to like struggle to figure out how to do basic things on the newest [TS]

  hardware that we have that we were able to on computers years ago because the [TS]

  news hardware so much better in certain ways it's really compelling the carrier [TS]

  to use whatever I feel like we are now at a point where there are there are so [TS]

  many tradeoffs being made to achieve what we think is next to achieve what [TS]

  you want to go next door or with that or the kind of hard everyone be carrying [TS]

  around and using there are so many tradeoffs now that in a lot of ways like [TS]

  things are getting worse or more cumbersome more complicated or less [TS]

  baked and were seeing weird products like these weird like laptop tablet [TS]

  hybrid that that are trying to cross these lines and kind of not doing a [TS]

  great job of it oftentimes and and I don't know it it feels like there's a [TS]

  lot of weirdness and the product line is a lot more saying no to two things you [TS]

  can do with it [TS]

  products rather than like you know before you buy a computer and anything [TS]

  you can do in the computer you can do a computer before now that's no longer the [TS]

  case in your smartphone's you go and you buy the iPhone and you have the best [TS]

  smartphone period that was it now that it isn't so simple anymore now do you [TS]

  also want an iPad or not you also want to watch or not there's there's so much [TS]

  variation now and in some way that's good even specialized you can make [TS]

  amazing hardware for certain rules but in so many other ways we are forced to [TS]

  make all these tradeoffs that we didn't have to make before and anyway this is [TS]

  all very very long and rambling but getting back to it the reason why I keep [TS]

  criticizing stuff when I when I want when I feel it's warranted that it would [TS]

  I feel like it's it's important is because this is where I do everything [TS]

  that this is this is my life is my hobby this is my work this my career I do [TS]

  everything everything I do I do with Apple products with my computer with my [TS]

  my phone like with all the stuff when anything about them gets worse or when [TS]

  the future of and it's called into question i dont wanna like go to desktop [TS]

  Linux or Windows like this is where I get my work done so I get very defensive [TS]

  of them and when I see Apple's patent themselves very thin trying to do all [TS]

  these different than the strengths figure out what the next version of [TS]

  computing is so they can dictate that and a known that and and figure that out [TS]

  I'm sitting here with my personal computing that has worked great for [TS]

  decades and I i can I get a little defensive of it and I and I get worried [TS]

  when the stuff I use becomes less reliable or less good or stops working [TS]

  at the expense of trying to push forward this this new world here that i think is [TS]

  is really trying to like it it's like it's like trying to extract oil shale [TS]

  you know it's like we should be put on the easy oil back forever ago now we [TS]

  have to get all these weird election stuff I don't know this is a very long [TS]

  around the argument I should cut this entire thing what do you guys think I [TS]

  mean is there anything to him saying here and I just totally lost or old [TS]

  think you need [TS]

  a new thought technology is not new ones that technology we already have just [TS]

  need to be applied in new context and this is this going more medicine maybe [TS]

  you are but if you ever find yourself thinking or saying anything that you [TS]

  know that people have been thinking or saying for the entire recorded history [TS]

  of humanity doesn't mean that you're wrong or that you're right but it does [TS]

  mean that you have to remember to sort of check yourself by saying all right I [TS]

  know just to give an example I know for a fact that people are always saying the [TS]

  kids these days that every generation thinks that the kids are like lazier [TS]

  than they are right when I was a kid I learned had you know to latin school the [TS]

  kids these days don't and whatever like we all know that right and so if we ever [TS]

  find ourselves saying you know is a true I'm out of touch know it's the children [TS]

  who are wrong if we find ourselves saying that because we know that people [TS]

  always say that we check ourselves and say okay doesn't mean that I'm wrong it [TS]

  could be the kids these days do have a problem and whatever but I have to be [TS]

  skeptical and have that feeling because there's a reason everyone always said [TS]

  that gets old and the kids and can't do things differently than they do anything [TS]

  the kids are lazy and not as good as they were and shit and they had a hard [TS]

  to the kids like we all know that one there is an equivalent you know [TS]

  repeating thought or historical fact or sort of feeling about the world in a [TS]

  different context and you Marco I think I have it on one of them witches [TS]

  computing is to be simpler we had PCs and even the smartphones be as smart [TS]

  phones in there was one of them and it was the best known and whatever else [TS]

  were inherent in that device it didn't matter because there was no other i [TS]

  phone you get because that was the iPhone and PCs in general purpose there [TS]

  was a long period of time where into the PC just got faster and better more [TS]

  memory more CPU more discs and laptops got smaller but not so small that they [TS]

  start outside improvises and they got faster and better and you know [TS]

  black-and-white to color screens and like it was just such a logical [TS]

  progression and part of the reason it seemed normal was because we were in the [TS]

  age when things are changing [TS]

  growing up during that time and anything that happens when you going out you know [TS]

  the old saying I think it's Douglas Adams or somebody or whatever technology [TS]

  exists when you're born you think it's normal whatever technology is invented [TS]

  before you're 30 you think is great in anything about that after thirty think [TS]

  it's unnatural domination alright so you're getting is totally real but [TS]

  because everybody always has that feeling every generation before [TS]

  everything whether it's the automatic transmission or the wheel or the [TS]

  horseless carriage or television versus radio or radio versus going to the [TS]

  theater or the masses not in Latin anymore whatever it is or the amazing [TS]

  variety of clothes that we have to choose from when I was a boy we just [TS]

  have one pair of pants and one shirt like you have to reexamine their [TS]

  everything you're feeling about this in the context of your own life and your [TS]

  own progression through this and it's like is this a natural part of getting [TS]

  older or is it a natural part of a market getting older because like some [TS]

  markets are maturing kind of stayed the same like for example mechanical watches [TS]

  not emotion there just bashing moving back and forth and some markets are much [TS]

  more dynamic like technology they're changing all the time and I guess that [TS]

  doesn't mean you're wrong about you know Apple being in a period where they're [TS]

  like either overextended or doing weird things are making different tradeoffs [TS]

  are perhaps not picking the best balance of the product line especially as far as [TS]

  you're concerned or whatever but it does mean that at the very least every time [TS]

  you have these feelings just like if you had the feeling about the kids these [TS]

  days you have to examine in a context honestly and even if you examine at the [TS]

  very least Voice the fact that you know this is that the shade it could be it [TS]

  could be that you're totally misleading yourself or whatever and I think that [TS]

  will go a long way towards getting to the heart of what is really going on [TS]

  because the feeling is real like the feeling is a hundred percent real but [TS]

  it's when you draw from that feeling of the conclusions that you have to be [TS]

  careful especially especially and I'm getting back to visit specifics more [TS]

  when in the case of Apple you find your way through a series of logical leaps to [TS]

  some sort of maliciousness or bad motivation whether it be greed or [TS]

  carelessness or [TS]

  you know whatever it may be because most of the time as we all know like things [TS]

  it's very easy to jump to conclusions about you know melissa has been really [TS]

  is just an unfortunate series of events or progress not actually made for you or [TS]

  you don't have all the information available all those other explanations [TS]

  because you know in the grand scheme of things Apple is not a super evil company [TS]

  and it's true that you can have a company called really good people but [TS]

  nevertheless does things that are bad but we all know abalone enough that I i [TS]

  really have a hard time believing the the most craving theories about why [TS]

  Apple does anything especially without in any actual evidence of then it seems [TS]

  like this is the type of thing they do because I'm mad about the fact that the [TS]

  product lines are changing and getting even more specific I think with the [TS]

  tradeoffs in the products like a big is a natural diversification of this type [TS]

  of fraud just like any other business where you start with something simple [TS]

  even just the Model T two comes in one color look at the variety of crazy [TS]

  things we have now did you see them was it the not the m6 this 6 x6 M at the M [TS]

  version of the stupid ex BMW 1602 1603 second it's like a it's like an SUV that [TS]

  as fast as as it just doesn't make any sense of the car like they make [TS]

  completely nonsensical things it's like oh I liked it better when we just saw [TS]

  the Model T and I was the card you can get you can get a Panamera you can get [TS]

  that I saw the x6 M you can get a Miata with the Fiat body on that I mean you [TS]

  can get all manner of crazy things in cars and it's like it was much simpler [TS]

  just like one or two cars it was but this is not the market goes on outside [TS]

  now to pick which trails taiwan don't want any manner to have to get this car [TS]

  but I can't find as many kids in it but then this has seats but they're small [TS]

  back seat but doesn't this fascist car it's like yeah that's just the natural [TS]

  progression of any market it's going to spread like that and it may be [TS]

  uncomfortable because we were used to especially in such a weird period of [TS]

  time only grew up hearing computers that when they were based in the same but [TS]

  better every year it was just such a clean wind it would be nice if things [TS]

  continue that way nice in terms of our comfort but probably not the right thing [TS]

  to do for the market anyway I'm not this is not a that this is not to dismiss [TS]

  your Chris isn't as I have Chris's he's up to we all do only to make a comment [TS]

  on how how I think we all have to [TS]

  look at the things that are legitimate upsetting us about technology prize in [TS]

  the grand scheme of things again but the technology products that were thinking [TS]

  about inviting him to use them for your work and it does have an effect on you [TS]

  an actual real effect is not all academic and there's nowhere else to go [TS]

  like well you don't know that because you just try that Froyo Android can be [TS]

  awesome I'm something more on the desktop like you could be right there [TS]

  they can't even say what does 10 10 10 might be good Casey likes of the Windows [TS]

  you can put them on the side of the screen and when I mean I i think for the [TS]

  first of all I think you're right I mean this is this is why everyone loves you [TS]

  because you're able to see through all of our emotions and and BS arguments and [TS]

  and and call it what it is so I think you're right [TS]

  emotions are real comeback ever shows a series of erotic references insensitive [TS]

  references that you don't get emotions are real like it's not it's not to say [TS]

  it's not to say that like oh dismissed the emotion like those are real [TS]

  your feelings are real and legitimate and I much validates them right it's [TS]

  like what you how you act on them and what conclusions you might grow and all [TS]

  I'm saying is to be skeptical when those thoughts fall into common patterns that [TS]

  we know economy doesn't mean they're wrong it just means like use that as a [TS]

  tool to churn through no I mean that's fair I i think part of what I'm feeling [TS]

  is that I really do think Apple has more quality problems now than they used to I [TS]

  really do think that they are spread more thinly needs to be and I really do [TS]

  think that their new products are not nearly as big hits or as clean of wins [TS]

  as their previous products but also it's it's that you know as you mentioned it [TS]

  used to be so much simpler you know it for a while there I I would get excited [TS]

  about almost anything Apple did because almost anything they did was potentially [TS]

  for me whereas now like you know right now everything's all all hyped up about [TS]

  I've had perot and the Apple TV crews the newest things and the kind of [TS]

  products I use like the biggest most powerful most expensive desktops and the [TS]

  biggest laptops don't get updated very frequently in meaningful ways the Mac [TS]

  Pro hardly ever get stalked the 15 inch MacBook Pro is actually due for an [TS]

  update pretty soon with sky lake and I'm sure they're gonna [TS]

  get thinner and lighter and with less battery life and everything and that'll [TS]

  be fine and I'll probably buy one eventually so you know the kind of [TS]

  product that that that I liked just kind of out of the PR cycle right now and and [TS]

  the kinds of products like the iPad is very frustrating to me because I have I [TS]

  I always want to really get into the iPad and just never it just never sticks [TS]

  from you never can can do what I need to do on it and I hear other people able to [TS]

  incredibly awesomely freely work on their iPad pros and get most most or all [TS]

  of their worked on the iPad and I feel like I'm living in honor of the plan [TS]

  here because I I just can't do that I'm afraid of you know the time being the [TS]

  old fogey hears you get overrun by these young people using iPads and and being [TS]

  able to I don't know a lot about me with their wonderful big light aircraft [TS]

  carriers that are the joint iPad but I think back to in in college [TS]

  there's sorry for the long long with a most unexpected but you know I think [TS]

  back to a time in college I had a professor who still there [TS]

  Gregory Katz hammer at Allegheny College I noticed his office that he was using [TS]

  desktop Linux and asked him like you know why don't why don't you use Windows [TS]

  why why using Linux to do all this stuff you know why why are you not using [TS]

  Windows across the world do you wouldn't it be more useful and and he said I [TS]

  don't use Windows because I can't get any of my work done it with us and the [TS]

  time that seemed like the most ridiculous statement I'd ever heard that [TS]

  allow what a huge nerd this guy is like I can't believe how could he not like [TS]

  his work on a Linux now looking back on it he was totally right and you know [TS]

  Linux really was the best platform to get all the work done and now if I say [TS]

  what is the best platform to get my work done it is very clearly Mac OS 10 like [TS]

  no question it's Mac OS and the reason I don't use windows and the reason I could [TS]

  not get any of my arms now my work might change over time obviously if I stop [TS]

  making ISR or Apple ecosystem apps then I could probably work very well on Linux [TS]

  because you know that I wouldn't need [TS]

  Xcode but the difference in like if you're using just how I feel like you [TS]

  have some kind of like ownership over that where it because it is so open [TS]

  source and weird and and and fragmented that that kind of keeps it healthy it's [TS]

  kind of like you know not having a monoculture as much [TS]

  whereas in the Apple world like one company controls my entire work [TS]

  environment my entire work and happy life one company controls all of that [TS]

  and also they seem like it's no longer really top of their radar anymore you [TS]

  know that and that's a little bit scary to me and so part of my reaction against [TS]

  everyone thinking of the word on the iPad is kind of a defensive position of [TS]

  like wait a minute I can't get my word on the on the iPad and also all the [TS]

  focus on the iPad is possibly costing the platform that you get my work on [TS]

  attention and maybe its future and that fuels threatening and you know obviously [TS]

  that's not a good position to be in [TS]

  to feel that way order to feel threatened obviously it's partially [TS]

  defensive and irrational and partially you know get off my lawn kind of stuff [TS]

  but it is certainly a feeling that i think is is worth recognizing I don't [TS]

  know what do you think so I think the problem that you and I have is that even [TS]

  though you said you kind of which the Apple ecosystem in 2004 is that right [TS]

  that's right right so for me it was I believe 2008 and I think the problem [TS]

  that you and I are wrestling with is that may be less in 2004 but certainly [TS]

  in 2008 when i when i became an Apple user things you're just getting better [TS]

  and better and better and better in pretty much every measurable way I'm [TS]

  sure if you were to go back to listen to podcasts from 2008 or 2009 we would have [TS]

  found something to complain about because that's what is often do but with [TS]

  hindsight I feel like it's fairly clear that things were just getting so much [TS]

  better so much quicker we were on this like hockey stick of awesome just going [TS]

  up and up and up and up and I remember being very happy about Snow Leopard and [TS]

  Snow Leopard came at the right time because I felt like that's when things [TS]

  are starting to get a little shaky [TS]

  and then Snow Leopard came into my recollection fixed a lot of the problems [TS]

  and I think that this the last year or so maybe a little more maybe a little [TS]

  less is the first time that I and i presume you Marco have had to deal with [TS]

  an apple that maybe isn't firing on all cylinders or or isn't isn't doing what [TS]

  we wanted to do which comes back with john was saying earlier you know maybe [TS]

  this isn't for us after all in and I think back to like the 2008 and I don't [TS]

  feel like they ever I don't think at that point they really had any terribly [TS]

  strong competition in the mobile space and I think anyone who paid even the [TS]

  least bit of attention would realize wow their computers are so much better than [TS]

  anything [TS]

  PC had any anything that Microsoft would have touched and and it was so obvious [TS]

  that that Apple was so much better in almost every measurable way and it was [TS]

  funny because at the time I remember saying to friends you know I hope that [TS]

  Android gets better and I hope that Windows Phone mobile six metro whatever [TS]

  it was called Pocket Edition Pocket Edition I hope that takes off because I [TS]

  want Apple to have competition I want them to have to work for it cause I [TS]

  don't want them to get complacent and looking back on it I almost wonder if [TS]

  that wasn't what we wanted because granted Apple shouldn't be complacent [TS]

  now and perhaps isn't complacent but at the time I feel like they were so far [TS]

  ahead of the competition that they could and meander their way into something [TS]

  awesome casually whereas today I don't know if I would go so far stirs plane [TS]

  goes so far as to say that they're playing catch up but things are not [TS]

  quite so simple anymore and I think Marco you had said earlier that said [TS]

  earlier you know entered funds are pretty darn good now and they're not [TS]

  there so there . they've gotten a lot better anyway and so a lot of the ways [TS]

  in which Apple was a clear and obvious winner they may not be the clear and [TS]

  obvious winner anymore [TS]

  in so I feel like where they used to be [TS]

  they used to be paving the the racetrack you know half half of the half length of [TS]

  track ahead of all the race cars now they're like yards ahead of the race [TS]

  cars and I think it's starting to show and so I think what we're wrestling with [TS]

  and I'm hoping channel provides some historical context here since I showed [TS]

  up is this is the first time that that you and i have seen in Apple that maybe [TS]

  has sputtered a little bit it may not be as bad as those three complete [TS]

  remissions make it out to be [TS]

  but I think we can all agree their sputtering a little a little bit just a [TS]

  little bit and it's hard for its hard for you and I to deal with that because [TS]

  we're not used to that we also sponsor this week by mail route should be [TS]

  handling your e-mail e-mail nerds who do nothing but email gonna mail route [TS]

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  good that they sold to Microsoft now they're back with the most innovative [TS]

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  without spam viruses are bounced email if you can just imagine opening your [TS]

  email and seeing only legit mail that you want and need to receive or well [TS]

  that this isn't spam mail route can make this a daily reality especially for [TS]

  overworked corporate email admins and you have your own domain regardless of [TS]

  who hosted mail route can help they have revived long dead domains that were [TS]

  overrun by spam and there's no hardware or software to install or maintain [TS]

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  real server and then span just goes away there is it's just amazing spaniards [TS]

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  corporations I use it myself actually as a desktop user you'll find that the user [TS]

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  your account you that you are a male red dot net / ATP for a free trial and 10% [TS]

  off forever thank you very much to mill around for sponsoring our show so going [TS]

  back to when I started out wanting to talk about with us this touch arcade [TS]

  article about the Apple TV app store apparently doing pretty poorly so far it [TS]

  does seem like one of the problems that that Apple's facing now is that even [TS]

  Apple seems to be trying very very hard to replicate their earlier successes and [TS]

  not really hitting them and and the article is talking about from the point [TS]

  of view of developers and end the app stores and saying that basically that [TS]

  not a lot of people are having success in the non iPhone and iPad app stores so [TS]

  the the watch and the Apple TV and maybe the macaroni that even talk to the Mac [TS]

  but certainly the watching the Apple TV like the new ones I would even extend [TS]

  that to say probably the iPad will see like right now the iPad Pro is out it's [TS]

  a good time for selling decent iPad software right now and the end of the [TS]

  iPad Pro will have momentum it is a very compelling product to a lot of people so [TS]

  it will succeed it will have momentum it'll do well my holiday season and will [TS]

  probably do well for the next year or so but then what you know because we we saw [TS]

  it happen with previous iPad software which was basically you know it was it [TS]

  did ok for a while but then it was very hard for developers to justify putting a [TS]

  lot of time to iPad vs their apps and it's going to be certain apps for it [TS]

  always makes sense I'm talking generally more apps general-purpose a degenerate [TS]

  productivity are browsing or social whatever kind of apps that people tend [TS]

  to want using their marketing devices the iPad historically has has been [TS]

  pretty far behind in a lot of this area because it just hasn't been worth [TS]

  developers putting on a time into it the sales didn't usually support it while [TS]

  the iPhone awaited very well so in this article they're basically making the [TS]

  same argument that like [TS]

  you know all these new App Store is he coming out from Apple and Apple keeps [TS]

  wanting developers to make all this great stuff for these new devices and [TS]

  new platforms but it doesn't seem to be working very well it doesn't seem like [TS]

  it's worth developers time to to to put much into those things and and if that's [TS]

  a shame because he's a platform that have incredible potentially if it's [TS]

  realized but it is not very very low sales figures for these apps I can just [TS]

  tell just like totally talking to my developer friends and seeing my numbers [TS]

  like from the watch and stuff it really does seem like developing for the washer [TS]

  the TV at this point is is probably not a great use of limited amount of time [TS]

  and you know developing just for the iPhone is probably a pretty safe bet for [TS]

  most apps unless they really need like a big canvas or they really need a TV [TS]

  version something but you know it seems like Apple had this great success with [TS]

  the iPhone and everything they've done since then has been trying to recreate [TS]

  that kind of tells me I mean obviously the cell phone market is very different [TS]

  with things like you know subsidies and just the pocket ability and everything [TS]

  like they're never gonna be exactly reproduce the iPhone success but they [TS]

  they at least one get like I don't know in the ballpark with an order of [TS]

  magnitude maybe and and and i dont [TS]

  I think they're having trouble replicating their own success and from [TS]

  the angle of developer lee with this is talking about it I i think one of the [TS]

  problems here is that Apple [TS]

  with the success of the iPhone and with the early success of the iPad or not [TS]

  live with the success of those two platforms and most of the iPhone Apple [TS]

  developed this this level of closed off Ennis and arrogance towards developers [TS]

  that I don't they always had it I was I wasn't an Apple Developer before that [TS]

  point but it's certainly in with the App Store era here and and you know it seems [TS]

  like they they have developed almost a hostility and in many ways it is [TS]

  hostility in certain ways it's not like the sourcing of Swift is solid and [TS]

  and they're really good move but but in many ways the actual experience of being [TS]

  an Apple developers especially if you rely on the App Store's you know if [TS]

  you're on anything but the Mac the actual experience of being Apple [TS]

  developer is pretty hostile at most times Apple has you know if you look at [TS]

  every other company in the industry every other company that has a platform [TS]

  that they that they that they need access to be built on they are all made [TS]

  with the possible exception of Amazon cuz they're just horrible but other [TS]

  companies try to attract developers to their platform they tend to make things [TS]

  nicer for developers they tend to actively recruit developers and try [TS]

  really really hard to get developers to their platforms Apple trustees [TS]

  developers their platforms the way New York rescue people to move here it's [TS]

  like they just like just barriers and brick walls and and taxes and down some [TS]

  like Apple basically says please don't bear be a developer here because for the [TS]

  iPhone they didn't they didn't have to go out and beg developers to come for [TS]

  their platform developers were not in the door down and Apple has been able to [TS]

  to to be carried by that all this time that attitude of like of being of the be [TS]

  in the maxim position of power not needing to really be nice for developers [TS]

  to it to work with at all for the iPhone but for their other platforms they're [TS]

  having these problems the other platforms developers are noting the [TS]

  doors down and I feel like Apple doesn't really know how to manage that situation [TS]

  they don't even know how to attract developers who don't already want to be [TS]

  there they certainly are not set up for it with the store or developer relations [TS]

  or any of these departments that that so far have not really need to do this at [TS]

  least in the last decade and I i feel like they don't even know how to solve [TS]

  this problem and and part of it is not their problems all part of the market [TS]

  problem of like well they got a you know get more of these devices out there and [TS]

  get people to buy more apps on them but a big part of it is like Apple's [TS]

  developer approach in general [TS]

  the app stores themselves and the after policies are all really fighting against [TS]

  developer adoption is new platform so I feel like this is one major way in which [TS]

  Apple is stumbling now and and I don't see an end in sight to the way they [TS]

  currently do developer relations and the app stores and so therefore I don't [TS]

  think the Apple TV and the water gonna really do well apple pies and I'm [TS]

  worried about the iPad pro once once the current like newness of it dies down [TS]

  just probably gonna be like six months no one that I worry about the health of [TS]

  the software ecosystems on these platforms it seems like Apple does not [TS]

  know how to manage that we feel ok about the iPad I think because like big [TS]

  picture type stuff from 1984 or not use max apple deputies before that and [TS]

  everything there is an overall arc choose marketed talked about like that [TS]

  you know personal computers became a thing in my lifetime anyway and for a [TS]

  while they had a steady stream of improvements obvious improvements to a [TS]

  basic form called the personal computer and roundabouts the time laptop started [TS]

  to become a thing that one solid for mattress base of the keyboard a box and [TS]

  monitor plus or minus the monitor being connected the box or whatever and just [TS]

  getting better every year [TS]

  floppy disks yeah well that that sort of became more diverse that the tree [TS]

  started to sprout branches and getting more brain cheer as we go here so that's [TS]

  that's diversify so there is that overall but still within that overall [TS]

  arc that he said this the ups and downs of Apple the ups and downs of the [TS]

  industry lots of other things going around have you seen more than one of [TS]

  those cycle it starts to not feel as panicking and you can say well this [TS]

  isn't as bad as it was when I go back came out and was better than every other [TS]

  computer in the world and nobody bought it certainly didn't have that problem of [TS]

  the iPhone and the iPad but really but I think you should feel good about the [TS]

  iPad for example is we ought to be between recently couple days ago about [TS]

  these stories of like elementary school teachers in computer lab having the the [TS]

  young kids coming to computer labs and be throwing the mice around cuz they had [TS]

  no idea what they were right because this is a generation of children that is [TS]

  brought up with phones that are like the iPhone and with tablets and some of [TS]

  these kids even if there was a PC in their house with a mouse that should [TS]

  have probably had never had any occasion to use it had no attraction to it were [TS]

  you know we're asking to grab their parents iPhone to play games on it if [TS]

  they didn't have one of their own and if they were lucky enough to have like a [TS]

  hand-me-down iPad or some kind of tablet wouldn't do stuff on that the personal [TS]

  computer as a thing to to the upcoming generation is indeed any examples [TS]

  because like they did NBC was probably a laptop and probably had a trackpad [TS]

  another thing that's not amount so it doesn't really matter in the grand [TS]

  generational scheme of things if this entire generation thinks of it doesn't [TS]

  think of computers or basically thinks of them as tablets and doesn't mean [TS]

  Apple's gonna win the market for tablets but it does mean that every every kid [TS]

  born into a world where they touch screens on their phones and tablets are [TS]

  they do everything has no attachment to the PC is that thing they're going to be [TS]

  you know when there are no professor they're gonna be like I was impressed [TS]

  you have this stupid tabloid lead touch on your thing I wanted to use of your [TS]

  headset is like I get my work done in this tablet because like why we use your [TS]

  head somewhere else use this template using a tablet examples I'm just taking [TS]

  things that have to be can relate to that the job of the company like a long [TS]

  long time help the company is a try to figure out what the next thing is and be [TS]

  there and Apple did a pretty good job that doesn't mean I was going to win the [TS]

  future so lucky enough to both invent the future with the iPhone say hey guys [TS]

  this is what a smartphone should be like there is like no you're totally right [TS]

  and then here we are today and they still did well Apple essentially [TS]

  invented the the future as we know it like this it looks like we've got like [TS]

  menus and dragging files around [TS]

  doing all this stuff and they more or less popularized that but didn't win [TS]

  that market someone else came to get those are great ideas now Microsoft [TS]

  Microsoft but we'll take those and run with it and we're going to do better [TS]

  than every other ways you're going to be a footnote in that race so I think about [TS]

  all these markets you talked about for like selling up to the iPad now is that [TS]

  pro gonna do has a television and do whatever I think the most important [TS]

  thing is to make sure that Apple is wherever these various markets are [TS]

  growing TV that boxes are thinking a little behind their stuff to be there [TS]

  are things that made them a thing mostly because I made the smartphone thing and [TS]

  Apple is also there and it's kind of still in the race so i'm not i'm not as [TS]

  really pessimistic about these things because Apple may not be the clear [TS]

  winner in all these categories but it is reasonably well positioned and the other [TS]

  thing that comes to mind [TS]

  historically speaking is whenever here Apple fans start to talk like Microsoft [TS]

  bands of older think like it the old deal Microsoft phantom when Microsoft [TS]

  ruled the world and apples a footnote and windows everywhere and and PC was [TS]

  just plain old PC and that will never change in Microsoft would live forever [TS]

  there was a mindset that any market makers of vendor they would when and [TS]

  microsemi center every market and that's unhealthy thinking like the iPhone as a [TS]

  phenomenal success and then it's like well if they if they if interested TV [TS]

  market the assumption is they wanted to be a successful as the iPhone not [TS]

  monetarily but you know in terms of like it is as successful of all the TV boxes [TS]

  next best one everyone agrees and they sell out of them and make a lot of money [TS]

  that they need to do to be the leader in that market [TS]

  be the best and then it needs to be super successful and it's impossible to [TS]

  do that but it doesn't mean Apple shouldn't be in those markets oh ok for [TS]

  Apple to enter market or dip is still in the market or noodle around the market [TS]

  for a long time like the TV boxes for that matter because it's important for [TS]

  them to be there to figure out what that's about [TS]

  and try to improve and try to be well position [TS]

  and if and when something takes off which lab also said to be our thing they [TS]

  do what they're making a car but i dont i dont get bent out of shape thinking [TS]

  about it's a real problem if people don't make lots of water out maybe watch [TS]

  ups as we as they're currently conceptualized are not even worth doing [TS]

  in which case it would like what are you winning is like a Pyrrhic victory you're [TS]

  in the top of a little tiny hill like we are the king of watch out seems like no [TS]

  one cares about watching not important to you it's a waste of time like don't [TS]

  like don't try to force it [TS]

  oh wow the markets to be what they're going to be in particular the TV at all [TS]

  I think about is is that a place where people make software and sell it for [TS]

  money that's a model that has worked on the App Store on the PC before but on [TS]

  television I think of all the apps that I use in its like I pay money to Netflix [TS]

  and Netflix need to have an Apple TV Apple money for the Netflix app I pay [TS]

  money to HBO HBO needs to have apathy but I don't pay money for the HBO let [TS]

  you know anything about you or something that just has to be there but it's not a [TS]

  situation which someone right software and sells it to me for money it is [TS]

  merely just a way to receive the content that I pay a subscription for alina mean [TS]

  that is kinda how every game console works though you know why am I telling [TS]

  you that does Apple have to try to compete with game consoles like they're [TS]

  they're figuring that like is this the future of gaming or is it not the future [TS]

  of gaming if it is Apple's reasonably positioned if it's not that you can't [TS]

  you know if traditional console model is still has like that Apple doesn't want [TS]

  to compete then and why would Apple that is an old model that works but it's [TS]

  certainly not like the future right so anyway I i think im just more chill [TS]

  about these things and I don't see every move that Apple makes into a new market [TS]

  is like a desperate ploy and that I must be down on it if it's not successful [TS]

  because almost nothing is going to be as accessible as the iPhone almost nothing [TS]

  is going to be successful as a PC conceptually not the Mac specifically [TS]

  but the PC was an amazing success Apple denied Sharon most success but how much [TS]

  how often you get the things you get the PC automobile [TS]

  movable-type got the wheel you've got the smartphone like we don't know what [TS]

  the next one of those things [TS]

  is gonna be tablets could just be an extension of the smartphone maybe var [TS]

  then maybe it's not I don't know but I'm fine with Apple making a TV box that [TS]

  hopefully is a decent TV box I would've been fine with the making a DVR but they [TS]

  never did because they don't love me you know I'm I think I think it's you just [TS]

  have to my kind of fighting inside the expectation that used to run Microsoft [TS]

  that they have whenever they did they had to be the winner and had to be [TS]

  awesome and had to be great like the Steve Ballmer gogogo type thing [TS]

  Microsoft found the limits that Microsoft found that eventually not only [TS]

  is this next thing you're not going to be the next big thing like pen computing [TS]

  for Windows where they were doing like not only are we not going to be speaking [TS]

  to our computers as the main form of input in 2001 as Bill Gates might have [TS]

  been surviving at some point in the past not only will you know whatever market [TS]

  Microsoft things like the Xbox be like the future of entertainment all those [TS]

  three successful as far as those things but there will be a big thing Microsoft [TS]

  will be in it [TS]

  smartphones and it will lose it will lose big it will have been there before [TS]

  everybody else and it will not only not win but it would just be a footnote like [TS]

  you know Windows stone right and that's that's what comes from expecting every [TS]

  single thing you do to that we're going to need them but you start to believe [TS]

  you're entitled to believe all we all my customers do is introduce a product in [TS]

  this category and we will be down and we will win and if we make up a new [TS]

  category like competing with a pen that will be the next big thing is our CEO [TS]

  says it is and when it's not will keep making new version a new version a new [TS]

  version and it'll be like understand what's going on here and then someone [TS]

  else will come out with you know the iPhone or whatever and make us all look [TS]

  foolish and so I don't know what's going inside Apple from the outside [TS]

  much more content to to let these things are certain to minus the stuff you're [TS]

  talking about with the developer relations sending goods legit issue that [TS]

  needs to sort out regardless of what platform it deals with including even [TS]

  the car we also sponsor this week by automatic automatic is a kinetic car [TS]

  adapter that plugs into your car's diagnostic port [TS]

  mechanic uses it pairs of your phone indicated there were twenty different [TS]

  apps to give you a better driving experience go to automatic dot com slash [TS]

  ATP to see for yourself and get 20% off [TS]

  off now automatic has always been able to help you in several ways if your [TS]

  check engine light comes on I can explain in plain English what's going on [TS]

  and let you clear the light for common errors can you log few trips and parking [TS]

  locations you can never lose your car and you can use your trip look for [TS]

  things like invoicing and keep you track your mileage if you have an accident it [TS]

  can call emergency services for you using the connection to your phone and [TS]

  its glory when you're driving so you can save money on gas and say you're in [TS]

  efficiency goals that a little help guide you into reaching into reaching in [TS]

  saving money and automatic also launched an app store for the car the individual [TS]

  automatics over 20 different answer available at target.com / apps allow you [TS]

  to use your card in all kinds of ways for example you can use concurred that [TS]

  you put your trip easily into expense reports FreshBooks can create invoices [TS]

  from your mileage will watch it can show your parking location right on your [TS]

  wrist license plus because your teenager safer driving and there's a big one if [TS]

  this then that I have TTT which give you the power to go to all kinds of recipes [TS]

  based on your driving and events happen with automatic along with the App Store [TS]

  on america's launched a developer platform for building as using the car's [TS]

  data is a modern rest and real-time streaming API with all off to providing [TS]

  easy access to a strip history including distance route time location miles per [TS]

  gallon etcetera and this is the very very easy to use REST API [TS]

  plenty of client libraries and examples too quickly launcher app on Heroku for [TS]

  example and you can get automatic normally it's a hundred bucks and are [TS]

  linked att.com / ATV gives you 20% off just 80 bucks normally now they're [TS]

  having a holiday sales this is amazing to the holiday sale brings it down with [TS]

  are linked to just $64 and there's no subscription fees no monthly fees no [TS]

  ongoing recurring fee whatsoever you by the automatic device up front and [TS]

  there's no recurring fee whatever you pay for the device that there's no [TS]

  service charge every month they are also free shipping in two business days and a [TS]

  45 day risk-free return policy so really there's no reason not to get it checked [TS]

  out today are match.com / ATP to get it for twenty percent office right now is [TS]

  just $64 total that's amazing [TS]

  check it out today army TACOM / ATP thanks a lot of the thoughts on this or [TS]

  do you want to take this to us [TS]

  happier place I have a lot of thoughts on it but I mean you broach the topic [TS]

  will save it for follow-up maybe we'll get feedback from people about it later [TS]

  I think what's tough about it is that like Marcos said we've seen feedback [TS]

  lately especially about how negative revolved then and you know it's a tough [TS]

  thing right because maybe we have been a little too negative but but we want to [TS]

  we want to call like it's like we see it and right now this is how we see it and [TS]

  I think I probably speaker Marco but I certainly speak for myself and trying to [TS]

  I i intend to try to find you know the more positive side of things going [TS]

  forward but we also don't wanna not say what we think you know and and and if it [TS]

  becomes a bear to listen to them and I'm sorry i genuinely am but you know this [TS]

  is this is what we think and you know what I think about the swift open source [TS]

  thing the more I see of it the more I like it I stride nice transition there [TS]

  now be brought before we even get off the night at like that it's not a choice [TS]

  between like you know I every time I get the license not about me is I had died [TS]

  saving I'm not too negative so I'm gonna be the one person will boldly say if [TS]

  you're sending an email saying to negative you mean me I disagree cuz i [TS]

  think im exactly did I normally and then again I also had a podcast called [TS]

  hypercritical maybe I'm hold myself to a different standard I think I think the [TS]

  issue is right that the trap is basically it's not a choice between [TS]

  although I'm not going to say what I feel you know I'm just being honest or [TS]

  whatever it's all about like I said at the beginning of this whole thing is all [TS]

  about it examination of you know your feelings are real and you have to [TS]

  examine them and examining with the lens of like could there be other really [TS]

  common reasons that I'm feeling things I'm feeling about this particular thing [TS]

  that are not explained by the conclusions I would like to eat too [TS]

  because I'm defenses or upset or just turned 30 in the world is passing me by [TS]

  his children swipe their fingers on their iPad screens and I media's amount [TS]

  of whatever you like it if I think most that be back is legit and its signal for [TS]

  for all of us yes even me to to just take a closer look at where where these [TS]

  things where these feelings are coming [TS]

  I think it because we've been super negative before it's mostly just about I [TS]

  feel bad and therefore I come to this conclusion of some of it granted some of [TS]

  it is people have anything bad about Apple but that they have their own [TS]

  things like why am I use upset when anyone says anything that out but Apple [TS]

  schedule of appellate that's a separate issue but there's enough of it and you [TS]

  know this is true of anything that you're critical of whether its star wars [TS]

  or apple or other things like it behooves all of us to make sure we are [TS]

  not being cliche and you not react to complaints of negativity immediately by [TS]

  thinking that now you just can't tell you what my real feelings are and I just [TS]

  want to be honest I'm just sayin understand the truth understand the real [TS]

  thing like it just to be to be self-critical like you know the greatest [TS]

  hypocritical always I can't do anything transition someone else can figure it [TS]

  out but yeah being self-critical is perhaps the most important place of [TS]

  criticism and I think it's worthwhile for all of us to do that and I think we [TS]

  try to do it to each other [TS]

  whichever one of us in the cranky mood hopefully I'll try to think about other [TS]

  ways that could be explained and so I think that's an ongoing thing and I [TS]

  think we'll try to do better in the new year [TS]

  absolutely so swift open-source we've talked about the sum and unfortunately [TS]

  the show notes are I think some of the things we've talked about some of the [TS]

  things we haven't but I I'm still stunned and extremely pleased with [TS]

  pretty much everything associated with this entire endeavor I cannot died I [TS]

  just can't believe that this is really what Apple is doing and just this week [TS]

  craig Venter et was on the talk show which I thought was awesome and there [TS]

  are some other guy on it to other than John Gruber I know who he was he was [TS]

  alright but but Federici was great and I thought it was really candid [TS]

  conversation it didn't feel to me like like it was all just BS marketing speak [TS]

  this is not unlike the conversation that that group Berhad with Phil Schiller [TS]

  wcco I thought was really great I think what they've done there is greed Chris [TS]

  Lattner if you wanna come on the show let us now open source thing with [TS]

  swiftly way it's being handled and and how receptive they've been two editions [TS]

  from the community like her last name Erica Sadun [TS]

  she had pitched getting rid of increment decrement operators and that apparently [TS]

  is going to be a thing for lips sorry my battery of the classic for Lori sorry my [TS]

  apologies but that's another gone and I just think that's phenomenally awesome [TS]

  and and I really genuinely commendable for pretty much everything that they've [TS]

  been doing around the space I know what do you guys think the stuff I have been [TS]

  so stop the basis for the first time we discussed it but it's not dead but that [TS]

  our fun person with a tweet from Chris Lattner from a little while back says [TS]

  Swiss comments and tests we are on track to be one of the most correctly spelled [TS]

  investment dented ones in the industry and this maybe this makes no sense but [TS]

  it's a comedy like when you have an open source project and he put it out there [TS]

  is a lot of excitement about that there is about sweat a lot of people who [TS]

  wanted you thinks the easiest thing to do is sort of like shedding or whatever [TS]

  to say I'm just gonna go on their fix typos and I'm going to reinvent this cos [TS]

  the spacing is all messed up and and this thing is it's really easy to do [TS]

  that and you have a million people in the just that I say I just want to go in [TS]

  there and fix something so I just for kids get up and go into the [TS]

  documentation and test women like fix the broken indenting and there's a lot [TS]

  of people with enthusiasm and that's how they landed and it's kind of like on the [TS]

  one hand you could be saying that like prisoners being mean don't you see a [TS]

  contribution and we're fixing your spelling and typographical legitimate [TS]

  concern but that's not how I meant it all as Matthew Palmer Park doubt anyone [TS]

  teaching people about what he calls pedantic PRS pull requests swiveling the [TS]

  first nine Chris Lattner commit with type of pics [TS]

  and that herself to clarify later made it over to the side making small [TS]

  improvements is one that everyone get started this is open source works hey I [TS]

  want to help contribute swift but I am NOT ready to declare the language to [TS]

  work as I have never even written anything in it go fix typos go fix [TS]

  inventing go fix a test suite go final test that fails on your system and make [TS]

  it so passes on your system by adding a new conditional improving the capability [TS]

  to something that's how open source works so and I think the spirit of these [TS]

  tweets about like the best Belden and ended things like that that's the spirit [TS]

  of like joyfulness of like look at all these people who talked about it on the [TS]

  talk show like tremendous of activity around so it's so much enthusiasm and [TS]

  isn't had nowhere to go into office closed source and now that it's open [TS]

  source all these people who are jazzed about Smith have someplace to put that [TS]

  effort and just having hundreds and thousands of people making this thing [TS]

  but I like it's going to be awesome for Apple that's like essentially work you [TS]

  know the magical elements are you getting free labor that's making things [TS]

  better for everybody including us and everybody happy about the people do it [TS]

  because they feel like I contributed to this big thing that that's important to [TS]

  all of us is happy because this stuff is getting better it's it's great to have [TS]

  been I've been really impressed by all of it what else to do we have in the [TS]

  show notes here the license you wanna talk about all that that John yeah it's [TS]

  gonna talk about the Apache to license I'm not a connoisseur of open source [TS]

  license licenses but was pointed out to me one interesting thing about apache [TS]

  other than the fact that being like a nonviolent the GPL license that is [TS]

  suitable for commercial entity like Apple to use for its software so that [TS]

  doesn't open source everything that it right in swift or whatever else ever one [TS]

  particular part of it is the patent grant that basically makes it gives [TS]

  people covered say hey if I use swift for like whatever I'm doing I'm making [TS]

  some embedded software for like you know [TS]

  lights which they can wifi light switches something I want to do it do I [TS]

  have to worry that Apple's gonna sue me for violating some patent or something [TS]

  like that and the attitude license grants you know if you use the software [TS]

  this license you know that it's legally is but each contributor hereby grants to [TS]

  your perpetual worldwide non-exclusive non-transferable revocable except as [TS]

  stated in the section patent license to make have made use oversell bottle but [TS]

  like everyone who contributes as baseless saying if you're contributing [TS]

  something that you have any patents [TS]

  contributor grants to you a license those patents and then there's the [TS]

  function of the end it's as if you institute patent litigation against any [TS]

  entity including a cross-claim or counterclaim lawsuit alleging that the [TS]

  work or a contribution incorporated within the work constitutes a director [TS]

  contributory patent infringement than any patent licenses granted to you under [TS]

  this license shall terminate so basically if you contribute stuff and [TS]

  interest to other people feel like hey that's my pen and work in there then you [TS]

  lose all the patent protection it's basically a way to try to work around [TS]

  their stupid patent system to make people feel safer about both [TS]

  contributing to the best or whatever it things on the Apache License and and to [TS]

  using it and to dissuade people from like putting a little patent time bomb [TS]

  and trying to see everybody who uses because their patent things in there [TS]

  that is pretty clever he's assuming that I am i understanding of it is the [TS]

  accurate but bottom line is that this is something that would make the Apache [TS]

  License particularly appealing to Apple and make it appealing to people who want [TS]

  to contribute because you might be afraid of hurting your project to do a [TS]

  project run by a company that has a million patents and has litigated based [TS]

  on patents in the past Apple has alright so we did not talk about the package [TS]

  manager yeah this is a sort of a human interest story angle type things so I [TS]

  don't know much about the manager of then we will put a link to ensure that [TS]

  is open source and you can look at it [TS]

  but probably one of the developers behind it the guy who made homebrew [TS]

  package manager open source package manager for us 10 name is Max Hall and [TS]

  the reason this came up in our little circles is he had some snarky tweets [TS]

  about Google not hiring him like he interviewed a Google and apparently [TS]

  google did not want him and maxed out like they didn't want him for dumb [TS]

  reasons [TS]

  regardless of why Google didn't want him they didn't hire them and use them to [TS]

  write and had him write a package manager for swift and considering hero [TS]

  home brew which is pretty popular tax matter for us 10 he probably has some [TS]

  significant experience writing thank you letters so hopefully he did even better [TS]

  job on the second one and that like his complaint was basically like they wanted [TS]

  me to do computer science stuff and they won't hire me even though they use [TS]

  homebrew in Google I so you have your own place using my software but they [TS]

  won't hire me because I can't do somewhere computer science nutrition [TS]

  thing in his perception of why he wasn't hired have always thought that that type [TS]

  of interview not Google specifically because they're hiring change over the [TS]

  years and the measure with like these days but that type of hiring thing not [TS]

  the puzzle hiring but where you interview people and you want them to [TS]

  demonstrate their knowledge of theoretical computer science concepts [TS]

  this there's value in that but I feel you have to hire based on a balance of [TS]

  things so maybe higher some some guy who is really strong academically in those [TS]

  lot a lot of the conceptual stuff but has never really read networking program [TS]

  in his life is a well balanced like it you know he's I wouldn't he's not a [TS]

  great programmer and maybe the language and writing but he conceptual he knows [TS]

  some really important and and heavy-duty things so that guy is the higher the [TS]

  other side of that is maybe this guy doesn't have a degree may be dropped out [TS]

  of high school for all you know but he's written he has a history of work of [TS]

  products of actual software that people use that maybe we even use that shows he [TS]

  knows how to create a good working product that people like but he doesn't [TS]

  know anything about computer science there may be that guy on bio [TS]

  unbalanced should also be higher if you just say there's a minimum barn you [TS]

  gotta know this minimum theoretical stuff and we don't care if you have any [TS]

  practical skill you'll end up with a bunch of like just cats wander around in [TS]

  your office thinking deep thoughts and never getting anything done and i'm glad [TS]

  to see that Apple is hiring process [TS]

  recognized you know it obviously was so I think for different things and I mean [TS]

  really the hiring process can be like homebrew we've heard number that's [TS]

  pretty cool and then you just make sure he's not a crazy person and that he can [TS]

  get along with people and that is interested in doing what you want to do [TS]

  which may be right back in management and great you're hired so I think this [TS]

  is a win for Apple and Google necessarily need him to write a package [TS]

  manager for them or something but I just always that they're hiring is slightly [TS]

  unbalanced in terms of in again like maybe there the whole thing was like [TS]

  it's worse for us to have a bad higher than to skip a good hire so maybe to [TS]

  work exactly as designed and that there was a study or whatever that went around [TS]

  the web recently that one bad hires much more costly than missing out on a good [TS]

  hire so that could be cool policy as well so maybe going to everybody but you [TS]

  seem like a happy ending to what could have been a sad story and this guy who's [TS]

  obviously got some skills and he found a good home in Apple did have you had a [TS]

  chance to look into the swift 3.0 goals because there's a whole I guess this is [TS]

  a repost that is with devolution that talks about among other things [TS]

  what's going to be happening with three yeah that's an ongoing thing there's a [TS]

  mailing list which i subscribe to and it's such high-volume that it I can't I [TS]

  can't keep up with it like not only do I have that filtered somewhere but I tried [TS]

  subscribing to the digest version so they can handle the activity I keep [TS]

  thinking its gonna die down but boy yeah they're 3.0 [TS]

  iran oil is still up in the air people are still thinking of things people are [TS]

  proposing like you know major things right now like more significant than [TS]

  getting rid of classic for lives and you know a plus + and minus minus much more [TS]

  significant than most of them will not be adopted but the fact that stuff [TS]

  that's what the discussion is the disease being entertained and discussed [TS]

  it a little bit scary and the like [TS]

  things down more than that by now maybe we haven't maybe this is just exuberance [TS]

  activity but it's exciting to see it happening in real time and you can [TS]

  contribute to it if you're not a dummy like me and respond to digest version [TS]

  and forget to put the subject line and see your first post has no subject but [TS]

  that the worst I even have undo send on Gmail just a quick too long to notice [TS]

  that under things went away any longer time [TS]

  old stupid but yeah like the only thing over there are hard investors like [TS]

  things they say are a legal language level concurrency not in 3.0 and it's [TS]

  good to draw that line because that's a whole can of worms they did you know [TS]

  it's good to do anyway but but minor things you can see them happening in [TS]

  real time subscribe to The Mentalist and just try to read the coming up there [TS]

  every day and there's a process as a proposal process this discussion [TS]

  everyone gets to contribute to the discussion effectively because if you're [TS]

  not going to implement the feature yourself not going to adopt it like [TS]

  actively Apple still in charge of this whole thing it's not as if democracy and [TS]

  if we all vote for some silly feature that Apple doesn't want that they're not [TS]

  going to happen but that's the nature of open source of people if everyone in the [TS]

  community literally everyone in the community wants classic bartlett's backs [TS]

  Apple doesn't the community just orkut and go ahead now you are you the [TS]

  developer you know you develop your four given a different name [TS]

  gonna that's the magic of open source but for now everyone seems to be singing [TS]

  Kumbaya and be perfectly willing to throw a million proposals at Apple and [TS]

  discuss them at length and then just trust that Apple is going to pick the [TS]

  one that is both things are useful and have reasonable support and hear more [TS]

  John talking like this I have to say yes everybody listen to the talk show [TS]

  episode from this past week featuring craig Venter ed and our friend John here [TS]

  is obviously like you know if it was big news but honestly John I thought your [TS]

  segment was really really great you really really killed it so good job [TS]

  there and I definitely recommend for our listeners if you are interested in [TS]

  hearing about [TS]

  swift being open source you must listen to that episode of the talk show it is [TS]

  long but it is worth it helps if your programmer because I sometimes feel bad [TS]

  when I go up not even john is an hour but like you know it was an episode [TS]

  about swept indeed anything else about swift open source saying that you would [TS]

  like to discuss tonight it would you like to hold off for another day [TS]

  now some of his aging like I would say if you want to still keep up on this [TS]

  will just do subscribe to the mailing list you know it's the best like it's an [TS]

  insane amount of activity if you have any interest at all in may feel like you [TS]

  know drinks from fire hoses the other thing you can do is subscribe to [TS]

  people's blogs like Eric had a post about like here's the interesting things [TS]

  that happened on the list this week you know her opinion like then you don't [TS]

  have to read 2000 messages someone smart will just pick up the things that are [TS]

  actually interesting and you can kind of get a summary like even that's one of [TS]

  the cool features of the Pearl $5 which are actually surprisingly active given [TS]

  the popularity of these days but even that is too much to go through we wanted [TS]

  something like ten or fifteen people talking back and forth to have weekly [TS]

  summaries here's what happened in profile for us this week and just kind [TS]

  of a summary of the of you know of everything literally just the regular [TS]

  and so if you can handle two million but the people in the mailing list that are [TS]

  contributing the most probably have blogs subscribe to their blogs and then [TS]

  you'll get one step removed today makes it exciting times thats West an apple [TS]

  and bring it back around a little bit 20 percent earlier like you know as as [TS]

  Apple is so big and so now sprawling and and as they keep doing things that don't [TS]

  have have kind of a mixed appeal to people like us or at least to me like [TS]

  something they do I'm really into and a lot of things they do I'm really not and [TS]

  you know as as this happens and as as we see them stumble here in there and as we [TS]

  see things that aren't as good as they should be here and there it is really [TS]

  easy to get really negative stuff and I really kind of fighting that for a while [TS]

  and trying to figure out how to reverse that [TS]

  that negativity in me and in in the way I feel about it though a talk about it [TS]

  and I think one way to do it than that I really want to focus more on is that [TS]

  even though the company is really big and they do some pretty crappy things [TS]

  here and there in my opinion there are areas like this [TS]

  areas with the swift open sourcing that's going on now where they really [TS]

  are doing really great things and and even if over time those areas that [TS]

  they're doing great work in become a smaller proportion of the of the things [TS]

  they do is in the way that I care about them [TS]

  the fact is they are still doing a lot of really good stuff like that and you [TS]

  know I can I say this on my 05 ke iMac from last year that I absolutely love [TS]

  using an OS that I absolutely love that I get all my work done on and I don't [TS]

  want to change so you know there is a lot of good there and I think the way [TS]

  forward in in trying to mature in my discussion about this and trying to [TS]

  minimize negativity unnecessarily is really just to to find the positives [TS]

  because they are there I completely agree one final debate on speaking of [TS]

  the positive it's about sweat this is a treat from Danny greg has you kinda love [TS]

  the swift team referenced tweets in their source this is the exact opposite [TS]

  of radar or gtfo its claim that is credited with it but say one of the [TS]

  matches from Apple many years in the past and today to some degree the well [TS]

  is so you can assign a person W are you seeing you like there's a bug in your [TS]

  API irresponsible the whatever library when you do this with the whatever [TS]

  library this thing happens or whatever in Apple people would say you have to [TS]

  file a radar you can't just tell me you can't just like shout at me in the [TS]

  hallway and tell me that if you passed know who this parameter crashes right [TS]

  you have to follow read about how we track things that's a bug tracking [TS]

  system and the swift approach to this is someone to eat something and someone on [TS]

  the 15 sees the Tweed and I guess they make the radar they had the bug tracking [TS]

  issue or whatever and then when they fix it in the source code they reference the [TS]

  tweet that told them [TS]

  about this crash sure so that's what they're saying it would denigrate in [TS]

  this week the best like if you look at the Swiss source code you will find [TS]

  links to tweets saying this is why we know about this bug this person tweeted [TS]

  this and then we might have fixed it was just totally the opposite of you have to [TS]

  go to Apple's official bug tracker and follow radar it's useless even talking [TS]

  to me and both are good advice like you can't really tell people the Honda [TS]

  expects them to you wanna if you want to work in the city within the system but [TS]

  on the other hand swift the 15th so engaging the community that they know [TS]

  they're stealing in people's tweets about these things and they see it says [TS]

  have got a crash on this whenever they will know and I guess they added to [TS]

  their own bug tracker or whatever you know paste the link between to the [TS]

  source code remind them later to click on that link to go back into the guy who [TS]

  said they had this thing and follow up with them or whatever is total community [TS]

  engagement always down to the level of representing referencing tweet that led [TS]

  to bug fixes which is fascinating from the perspective of a company that [TS]

  popularized the term radar GTFO I think we're good they said 43 sponsors this [TS]

  week [TS]

  Squarespace Melrose and automatic and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  Casey [TS]

  it was accidental and Marco [TS]

  it was accidental and Marco [TS]

  damn car's name is the x6 and the stimulators it's not the MCX 6 a.m. and [TS]

  the x6 M because the exits in the car in this and the Ember not the M Sport but [TS]

  the actual em so it isn't am car but it's not an M card is the M's at the end [TS]

  anyway 3.7 seconds to 60 3.7 seconds to 64 basically an SUV look at this thing [TS]

  it's like making it it's like making a hippo dance like it's just amazing what [TS]

  you can do it like and the car driver review of the shootout between these [TS]

  cars like this one and whatever the mercedes one is it was like these car [TS]

  shouldn't even existed unholy that they're able to make the public but why [TS]

  like it's fascinating I guess but no one should ever by these cars they make no [TS]

  sense and it defies the laws of physics that like you make us think honor this [TS]

  flat and go this fast like going through Sloan cones and doing like handling [TS]

  things and shape the center like a Jeep Cherokee with a little bit lower hood is [TS]

  what what a whirlwind case you want someone else he would like the American [TS]

  version better prolly but it is way too good looking for cases on it [TS]

  exact the hideous I know this is too early for me to ever Jerome area comes [TS]

  in white guy he so much although I do love you John for knowing the very very [TS]

  nuanced difference between an M Sport car in an actual M car how could I not [TS]

  how could I not spend enough time with us to knuckleheads and I don't blame you [TS]

  and Carly to do since we've already open the neutral door I drove a Tesla yes so [TS]

  tell us about that dear friend of the show [TS]

  underscore David Smith has quietly bought his family a Tesla Model S a [TS]

  ninety and he he and his family visited this past weekend very very briefly as [TS]

  they were [TS]

  swinging through Richmond he took me for a ride and I know this is not the David [TS]

  Smith that I met a few years back because we got to the end of my road and [TS]

  at the end of the road that my house is on it teason to a pretty big road I [TS]

  don't remember the exact words that were used but something along the lines of [TS]

  are you ready [TS]

  came from underscores mouth and you have to understand kids that underscore used [TS]

  to drive a Corolla and although it was his idea for mark when I to join him at [TS]

  the two-day am driving school I think he was the least aggressive of the three of [TS]

  us is effort to say no easily and next thing I know he's saying to me are you [TS]

  ready and then he stands on the gas will make a 90 degree turn on the gas sorry [TS]

  the throttle tapers off TV so I can watch it later I don't even know where [TS]

  to go from here but anyway so he took at first he demonstrated autopilot which [TS]

  was fascinating and petrifying he drove reasonably briskly which made me so [TS]

  happy I cannot even begin to describe it and then we got back we went on like a [TS]

  literally five to ten minute loop which involved a little bit of kurds a little [TS]

  bit of travel on highway and then a little bit of just like regular surface [TS]

  roads and then he offered for me to drive and do you basically the exact [TS]

  same circuit first impressions the car doesn't creep when you come off the gas [TS]

  however there is a setting which is extremely weird and no I believe they do [TS]

  well I don't know if it's creep mode I see what your saying that I didn't get [TS]

  it at first but a good name for those you really don't want that on right [TS]

  exactly in the funny thing was underscored said to be well you know [TS]

  this is gonna be more like your car which doesn't really creeped when you [TS]

  come off the brake which generals true [TS]

  but my brain was an automatic mode where if you come off the brake you're going [TS]

  to move forward and it didn't take long for me to get used to the cream not [TS]

  being there but was peculiar because my brain had to like balance this threshold [TS]

  between driving a stick and driving automatic which is very peculiar he [TS]

  spent a long time and i genuinely glad he did explaining to me how freaking [TS]

  weird regenerative braking is and you know what it's freaking weird that's an [TS]

  option to buy the way you can turn off the one foot driving mode but it's [TS]

  stupid because you don't turn it off to get used to it yeah you can turn that [TS]

  down [TS]

  yeah I was about to say just like market estate you know you can also turn it [TS]

  down I think it was resetting it soft medium and high or something along those [TS]

  lines [TS]

  the funny thing is like it was really easy for me to drive Tesla's because my [TS]

  cart with the DCT doesn't creep that's true and it has so much engine vacuum [TS]

  when you let off the gas that it really pulls you back almost like regenerative [TS]

  braking so in in the settings you were using it actually feels a lot like my [TS]

  car that's when you're doing that you're not getting any gas back from this break [TS]

  we're expensive breaks yeah that's right what's the countdown for months or so so [TS]

  we eventually take off and and i got you know halfway down my little neighborhood [TS]

  street and I got going just just a hint to quickly so I could feel the [TS]

  regenerative braking and it is weird man it's not that terribly dissimilar from [TS]

  driving a Wrangler at speed where if you take your foot off the gas you just [TS]

  suddenly kind of stopped but the difference here again is instead of it [TS]

  being because there's so much wind resistance against this rolling box in [TS]

  this case it's because you're saying John you are actually recovering [TS]

  electricity which is really cool and so what ended up happening was it didn't [TS]

  take me too long to as one of you just said Dr with basically only one foot and [TS]

  it's weird I liked it was kind of a fun game but it is weird that being said I [TS]

  eventually got onto a larger road and [TS]

  you know kind of creeping a little bit and then I stood on the accelerator or [TS]

  throttle if you will and by god the closest thing I can the closest analogy [TS]

  I can make is imagine a turbocharged cars like mine or like Marcos where [TS]

  you're in a relatively low gear at reasonably quick speed so say I'm in [TS]

  like 2nd gear like fifty or sixty miles an hour so if I stand on the gas at that [TS]

  point presumably the turbo is already providing boost and if I stand on the [TS]

  gas I'm gonna go and I wanna go with the quickness well a relative quickness [TS]

  given that I'm burning did dinosaurs this thing however felt like that from a [TS]

  stop from any speed from any speed there was instant infinite power and the 9th [TS]

  ed as I said to Marco after I drove it it is sufficiently fast now as I also [TS]

  said to Marco I'm not used to Marco being satisfied with sufficient it was [TS]

  without question [TS]

  sufficiently fast told you so it is it is absolutely true I still think you're [TS]

  gonna get the performance version but it is sufficiently fast thanks and I [TS]

  decided this week but I'm getting really so it just just looking at the figures [TS]

  today like should I just go performance anyway and thinking I still think [TS]

  probably not but I was tempted I just just to let you know I will get what one [TS]

  thing that I learned while browsing around their forums which I have seen a [TS]

  lot of Internet communities it might in my time so far and the Tesla forums are [TS]

  not among the most hopeful that I have seen but one thing that I learned from [TS]

  these random strangers of very mixed credibility and relevance skills and [TS]

  writing skills on a page that loads incredibly slowly because what year is [TS]

  this [TS]

  anyway on the official forums I learned that apparently there the quoted range [TS]

  that you get goes down pretty hard over time it says you lose like three to five [TS]

  percent a year [TS]

  sounds like a lot and like like the range of free to go from 85 to 90 D is [TS]

  only six percent and the difference between the the non P and the PC version [TS]

  in battery is something like twenty percent so it's actually it's a pretty [TS]

  big difference and so i i wonder you know i i think maybe I really might want [TS]

  the maximum range and to not get the PC version if for no other reason which [TS]

  store of everything but if for no other reason than to really maximize my [TS]

  initial range because I'm not even be getting that in like two years you know [TS]

  but the myself more padding on the Rings take their naps during the battery swap [TS]

  for $99 lithium-ion batteries that just like the one you're gonna get crap here [TS]

  as he is I'm you know it's funny you bring that up because he played a couple [TS]

  of interesting points the first thing he said was you know if you were going to [TS]

  buy one which I'm not but if you're going to buy one in three years too much [TS]

  money if it was if it was affordable hey whatever happened I was trading my car [TS]

  ready same thing about Apple products same thing on the list slightly more [TS]

  expensive than the average car than a Mac is the average pc [TS]

  thank you john in terms of terms of absolute values if not percentage amount [TS]

  of three comes right so we'll see but anyway he made an interesting point [TS]

  which was the way this technology is an end with the way the batteries are it [TS]

  would probably be a pretty dumb idea to purchase one rather than least one and [TS]

  I've never had elisa my life and they seem in a lot of ways like a complete [TS]

  waste of money to me but I think he's probably right in this case that it [TS]

  seems like it would be silly to purchase a car where when you fill the tank so to [TS]

  speak in three or four years you will not be able to fill it as high as you [TS]

  were once able to when it was new to remember the the plan for the quick [TS]

  charge stations that instead of the supercharger they would take the battery [TS]

  out and give you a new one [TS]

  I don't know if that's the thing anymore but I do remember that plan and it [TS]

  wouldn't be a new one it would just be a different one gets its like any propane [TS]

  cylinders at the hardware store you might get a new one but chances are [TS]

  hitting someone's old rusty one yeah I mean that the majority of the cost of [TS]

  the car he says that big battery and so there's no avoiding the fact that [TS]

  they're gonna get older they gonna get trapped here and yet at least three [TS]

  starts to make sense in that scenario but promised them when the lease is up [TS]

  to you [TS]

  least another one like they're not gonna yes there's going to be a secondary [TS]

  market for them but at a certain point the battery is crap like you know just [TS]

  we have been around long enough to get you find some Tesla Roadster and see [TS]

  like other test test the road to choose out there that just no one wants because [TS]

  it's like it's like selling a car with it was seized engine that gets fine but [TS]

  you just need a new engine its $100,000 battery pack this this is not a car that [TS]

  I would want to own outright just because it is changing so much still we [TS]

  still have the Model S has only been around for what three or four years so I [TS]

  like it has been out walking right so we don't really know what the used market [TS]

  is like when they get at least residual they really are discounted guessing it [TS]

  so by leasing you're putting the risk on Tesla not on you and I think for for a [TS]

  product this young with advancing so quickly plus like that they keep [TS]

  advancing the features and and the product line and the hardware the table [TS]

  in the car wake you know in six months after I get mine there's gonna be some [TS]

  massive new feature the my car can do they're gonna wat you know because they [TS]

  keep they make things so quickly it isn't even on a yearly schedule they put [TS]

  every four months we just knew new features new changes and some of them [TS]

  are software that that that the previous Carson get and some of them aren't [TS]

  it really is updated as often as like a computer is updated with new features a [TS]

  new capabilities in new hardware and so do you really wanna be using a six year [TS]

  old one but maybe not you know if you care about all the cool new stuff they [TS]

  keep adding I i think at least really does make a lot of sense [TS]

  and especially for a car that's this young and its development cycle for an [TS]

  industry that this young with the out the whole car industry you know you [TS]

  don't know what it's going to be like in three years you don't know what the [TS]

  market for these cars will be like in three years and how easy it will be to [TS]

  sell one you know it's or what long-term Eaton's might cost you know all those [TS]

  are still sucks unknowns that leasing makes a lot of sense yeah I agree the [TS]

  other interesting point that that underscore made and I didn't know this [TS]

  was the thing but apparently whatever flavor battery is in the Tesla it is [TS]

  understood that charging it only to about eighty or ninety percent of it [TS]

  exactly what it was [TS]

  is better for the battery then charging it all the way to a hundred percent and [TS]

  so apparently what you can do is you can say to the car you know what generally [TS]

  speaking just charged 80 percent it's out there I'm just gonna be around town [TS]

  its fine and then you can like requester or tell it to do a full max range [TS]

  charged in the instances here about to go on like a roadtrip fascinating is the [TS]

  extension of the BMW's where you have settings every possible thing like Tesla [TS]

  it's also exciting all the way down computers and electronics like they've [TS]

  taken to today BMW's sounds like everyday worries taking to like the [TS]

  things you can adjust the other cars you can adjust in the BMW but but something [TS]

  you can't just that all right and like everything up for grabs [TS]

  maybe if you want me to turn the steering also left the wheels go right [TS]

  it's probably not that one but they could probably do against its electric [TS]

  power steering [TS]

  it's ridiculous that the touch screen in center usually just what the screen off [TS]

  just visually having a 17 inch monitor in the center of the car looks [TS]

  ridiculous and I hated however it did not take long for me to start to [TS]

  appreciate what that affords you having this humongous screen inside of the car [TS]

  like having a navigation screen dad is a mammoth being able to go to pain like [TS]

  you can split in half so that the thing is mounted in portrait orientation but [TS]

  you can split it in half so you have like a top half or bottom half and did [TS]

  you wildly different things on them [TS]

  I thought the touch screen was reasonably responsive I didn't think it [TS]

  was bad I thought it was aesthetically sufficient I wouldn't say it looked [TS]

  great but it was ok my understanding is they recently did a quote unquote Iowa 7 [TS]

  update and before that it looked to really dated from what I've been told [TS]

  yes but this one i mean seemed fine I can i still can't get over how quick it [TS]

  was from any speed instant it was like getting it was like one of those linear [TS]

  induction roller coasters at any speed instant power I did briefly tried the [TS]

  autopilot really weird really really weird not bad weird but really weird [TS]

  David said that if you leave your hands off the wheel for an extended length of [TS]

  time it gets progressively more angry about that fact and I believe he said it [TS]

  will eventually pull the car over and get put on the emergency flashers [TS]

  assuming that you've liked at some sort of medical emergency or something but [TS]

  but it was very cool but very very weird and it was unbelievably cool to me to [TS]

  see even when I wasn't an autopilot mode just because of the light proximity [TS]

  awareness what was going on around me it would actually show an icon of the car [TS]

  in front of me on the dashboards not like the specific make and model of the [TS]

  car but I got representative this there is a car in front of you and it's about [TS]

  here [TS]

  similarly I see where you are in the lane and in so it kind of gives you a [TS]

  constant bird's eye view of where you are within the land which was very very [TS]

  interesting I loved it I thought it was extremely cool I won't say it utterly [TS]

  ruined my car but if I were to buy a car tomorrow and I could afford one of these [TS]

  I would absolutely do that instead of any sort of petrol gasoline car I also [TS]

  got to the point that I started to think to myself you know me instead of getting [TS]

  an error in an SUV that our model yes it does hold more it has that front trunk [TS]

  thing got her a model [TS]

  floated this idea briefly [TS]

  and she looked at me and was like not happening but I I loved it I absolutely [TS]

  loved it I thought it was extremely cool and it seems clear to me that this is [TS]

  the future but the future it's a president my neighborhood they are the [TS]

  most common rich person car but they're pretty close they're just everywhere [TS]

  it's worth I have seen a noticeable uptick in the in the in like just the [TS]

  last three months around here to like I'm guessing going although drive that [TS]

  was last year whenever that was [TS]

  I bet that help them tremendously in the Northeast I really like now I really am [TS]

  seeing them all over the place it's I just don't even know what to say it was [TS]

  just so you know it was is I've become very spoiled by my car because my car in [TS]

  this is not unique to BMW's but I do think it's you need to luxury cars it's [TS]

  just built well he has had problems yesterday almost exploded a few weeks [TS]

  back it's had its share of problems but when it's running properly which is more [TS]

  often than not it just is so well built it just feels so solid it just feels [TS]

  right in this car the Tesla Model S felt the same way I didn't miss that the [TS]

  sturdiness of it at all whereas when I tried various mazda6 which is absolutely [TS]

  great car little old now 2007 but it's a great car and I really like her car it's [TS]

  just not built the same way it's not built as sturdy as like a deal German [TS]

  boat of a car is and this is built just as sturdy I loved it the iPhone app [TS]

  definitely has a bunch of problems but the fact that you can do so much me [TS]

  iPhone app you can open the sunroof you can turn on the air conditioning you can [TS]

  tell it to charge you can see what the charge is it was incredible 11 we [TS]

  plugged it into my house it like sorta trickle charge for a little bit to come [TS]

  to decide whether or not my electricity coming out of the house was sufficient [TS]

  enough to do you like a full-bore charge and then it eventually ramped up to [TS]

  things like to answer something that I forget exactly what it was but it [TS]

  eventually wrapped itself up to like I'm going to charge myself as quickly as I [TS]

  possibly can from a traditional electrical outlet [TS]

  just everything about it was so cool and so well done and it doesn't mean it [TS]

  doesn't have problems but it was so cool and so well done and so clearly are [TS]

  nerds automobile I want I want it [TS]

  yeah I really am here to keep talking underscore in seeing what he thinks you [TS]

  know long-term and you know what they like I heard I talked to a friend in my [TS]

  neighborhood who just got one and I think he probably has similar [TS]

  sensibilities as me with this sort of thing and and and he said he loves it [TS]

  but it is a car made by tech people and it has like you know bugs and software [TS]

  updates so you have to look you know you're setting yourself up for that but [TS]

  that that aside it is really nice and it comes with the up sides of that as well [TS]

  you know if the frequent updates and adding stuff after the fact I mean my [TS]

  car has gained nothing I bought it except for some things start to work a [TS]

  lil bit worse over time but my car is not getting a single new feature since I [TS]

  bought it whereas I Tesla's get updated over the air and they get new stuff all [TS]

  the time so that's interesting and I might not always want that there might [TS]

  be some times where drives me nuts when it when it doesn't do what I want her [TS]

  when I when I wanted more conservative but I think overall it's probably a net [TS]

  win so I guess we'll see what happens I mean you know we could be looking back [TS]

  on this episode in you know three years when you have already bought one my my [TS]

  lease is about to end and I'm ranting about how much I hate all these dynamic [TS]

  software bugs and everything we looking back on it and laughing but at this [TS]

  moment I think it sounds like an OK tradeoff overall and and to get a car [TS]

  that's over all that good I think it's worth it [TS]

  one final note while thinking of it I was utterly baffled with what to do when [TS]

  we got back to the house and I parked the car the gear shift is on the right [TS]

  hand side its atomic column and that was pretty self explanatory heck it's a hell [TS]

  of a lot better than BMW automatics not the DCT is with the automatics DCT there [TS]

  believe me even weirder I mean like so ok we turn the car on a start and park [TS]

  as far as I know when to shift out of park [TS]

  I don't think there's a way to get it back into park without turning the car [TS]

  off there is on the automatic I can't speak for the DCT areas you're right [TS]

  it's the disease are totally different for some reason and it is so strong in [TS]

  the automatic our view of modern automatics are themselves incredibly [TS]

  like an intuitive and a weird and just messed up the DCT is also just as weird [TS]

  but it's all different interesting it's very strange I guess if the paddles not [TS]

  only I don't use the stick with the reverse because the stick is just so [TS]

  strange that just not worth it yet so I put the car in park that was fined and [TS]

  then I look for the ignition switch which I guess ignition in and of itself [TS]

  as a barbaric term now but archaic I should say but there wasn't one and I [TS]

  just was looking around confused and I think david has kind of enjoying my my [TS]

  being perplexed and eventually to him and said what do i do is get out in the [TS]

  car is always on effectively as long as you're sitting in the car the cars on [TS]

  ready to go to just get out and when I walk the Cardinal game cumshot itself [TS]

  off so weird so call so much the future wants it so yeah if you are someone who [TS]

  is interesting in advertising on the axle tech podcast otherwise known as the [TS]

  Casey by a Tesla fund please reach out to anyone of us send as many miles as [TS]

  you buy because I would like to have a test yes we're now going to have six [TS]

  sponsors per episode battle a West Esplanade buying ads they don't they [TS]

  don't need to do they do need to so we are moving to six to twelve ads per [TS]

  episode [TS]

  what we're trying to do the math on what we're gonna get work on that is [TS]

  testimony to get meet you still wouldn't buy one you would still talk yourself [TS]

  out of it I don't have the house for a don't have the space for and I don't [TS]

  have to talk myself [TS]

  i dont i dont have a burning desire for a test like I had enough money for [TS]

  testing I would definitely be shopping for different cars you guys already had [TS]

  fancy BMW got it out of your system I haven't given me enough money for Marcus [TS]

  fancy test I would chop different car but what would you get instead for say [TS]

  you know ninety grandeur ever these and I would I would look at all the better [TS]

  to look at Mistys BMW Audi wouldn't look at Jaguar sorry you know how to get [TS]

  accurate tribes see what's out there would you know that's what I would [TS]

  consider before that I'm not ready to have weird car experiments like you guys [TS]

  will but the seventh model test level you know just like the iPhone when they [TS]

  come up to six or seven tests alone probably right for me [TS]

  goodness yes so I want it and don't don't ever hand me the key to your test [TS]

  because you never gonna get it back [TS]

  because you never gonna get it back [TS]

  I was looking at something and then jumped away that the kind of experience [TS]

  you wanna provide me pull off so there is actually a term just like there is [TS]

  everything a business like parking lot and all staff all gortari how much [TS]

  talked about for the concept I think I just grabbed an earlier show people in [TS]

  middle management are motivated to make things that are bad not sound quite as [TS]

  bad when I talk to their boss because if you're telling your bad boss bad news [TS]

  about tobacco why is this bad news happening in the reason we pay you it [TS]

  make bad things that happen and so as it goes up the management James say you [TS]

  start with the truth down the leaf nodes but I'ma get to the CEO is a disastrous [TS]

  from doesn't sound so bad and a terrible that is green shifting which is a plan [TS]

  red shifting just like any other galaxies are racing away from us and and [TS]

  the wavelength of light coming from stretch towards the red side of the [TS]

  visible light spectrum saw the galaxies stars tougher red shifted green shifting [TS]

  is getting nicer as they go up there are charged so that's a great time had not [TS]

  heard it before but it's a real thing I've not heard that either I never heard [TS]

  it you can use it you can use green shifting on a year or China home isn't [TS]

  quite deep enough maybe like cops that something terrible outside a Carlton [TS]

  something gross when you report it to Adam you can say all hops just got a [TS]

  little dirty and then when Adam [TS]

  by 150% fun outside and then [TS]

  cops encapsulated in green shifted that obviously pretty much happens like this [TS]

  really is is very plausible of a situation to happen and how to get our [TS]

  household Raffaele rate in this is an interesting take on something we talked [TS]

  about last episode about you know walking out and about software quality [TS]

  and having like Snow Leopard releases are you just work on bugs and stuff and [TS]

  the the concept of year the releases came up and what I was arguing with like [TS]

  it's really arbitrary if you're a discipline software organization and [TS]

  that by becoming his last year's all you're doing is changing the discipline [TS]

  from working on something until it's done by justice sticking to it [TS]

  schedule and saying what it in and what about that schedule and anything that [TS]

  gets pushed to the next release and so on and so forth that's night and [TS]

  Raffaele gave the example that should have thought of that is true for a lot [TS]

  of the software used today instead of doing fewer avisas how about doing more [TS]

  releases as in continuous reviews kind of like Chrome browser they call [TS]

  evergreen that are sort of like mandatory auto updating and you don't [TS]

  really care about the version is like none of us know off hand or chrome [TS]

  Bergeron run whatever the latest this anti-crime updates all the time and [TS]

  updates whenever they feel like it if instead of having yearly releases and [TS]

  saying well that's that's that's that's too much of a rush make them two-year [TS]

  get rid of the whole concept of like this big important released its where [TS]

  the inter press release and bullet points and instead just do small [TS]

  incremental train its all time I think jeff Atwood had a park about this couple [TS]

  years ago the Internet version but basically the same thing that most [TS]

  people are familiar with the web browsers where version stopped mattering [TS]

  is just the software exists and it continued to continuously update itself [TS]

  and hopefully gets better and that's a different a different mindset where [TS]

  you're making lots of small changes which are easier to make and the [TS]

  consequences of screening upper smaller because then you're sure you then you [TS]

  know what it is screwed it up like if you made one small change and all of a [TS]

  sudden you know there was some huge performance regression and some damn [TS]

  operation I crash happened with chrome 43 recently you know what changed in [TS]

  that and you you can really impact because it's just one small change from [TS]

  the previous version and B if you have a chance of fixing it was you know exactly [TS]

  what small thing it was so if you make a series of small changes over time it's [TS]

  potentially better for your customers and also better for you in terms of [TS]

  knowing what you've done to screw things up so I kind of like this idea and [TS]

  looking at the software that we use more and more of it so I swear you said you [TS]

  updates manually then became auto updating we're not quite to the infant [TS]

  version for all software available but moving away from ikea.com marketing [TS]

  releases were the only reason you have a big thing is it's kind of like a [TS]

  tradition or a holdover from when you bought things in cardboard boxes and of [TS]

  course there had to be a big deal because you have to put a new set of [TS]

  cardboard boxes and new art and cover like doing nearly didn't really says is [TS]

  really just kind of a holdover from that and it seems like the trend is away from [TS]

  that and more towards continuous releases and I think that I'm intrigued [TS]

  by his idea like to subscribe to the newsletter the the upside I said like [TS]

  that it only doing these days regular basis for marketing purposes [TS]

  purposes but marketing is not nothing right if our goal was to move to a sort [TS]

  of a news release cycle for major products that means it gives up the perk [TS]

  of being able to make grand announcements at WWDC some kind of press [TS]

  conference for the invite the press out to show them something you can't get [TS]

  that anymore you don't get the big bump in the press you don't get the Apple [TS]

  today announced blah blah blah blah blah maybe they get that less for software [TS]

  and hardware but that is there is a downside to this and part of the reason [TS]

  Apple keeps doing these markings releases is because it's it's worth it [TS]

  to them to get the extra hype and publicity and get people excited and hat [TS]

  and seemed to make significant progress I got a lot of what we thought about [TS]

  Apple's like one day they appear and they say hey we've got this great idea [TS]

  and look at this new thing the new thing if we got that same thing in seven [TS]

  hundred steps [TS]

  you know instead of one big bang it's less impressive even though we end up in [TS]

  the same spot so I think there has to be a factor I i still think it's worth it [TS]

  but that's that's the calculus that have to do internally if they want to move [TS]

  this type of system for software release alright and Eric Michaels overhead some [TS]

  interesting thoughts on iphone battery thinness yes last week we're talking [TS]

  about the battery case and I of course complain that I always do that the [TS]

  iPhone battery life is not good enough and one of the theories presented was [TS]

  that maybe the battery case was kind of like apple filling out the market for a [TS]

  little more info on whether people really do want more battery life in [TS]

  their iPhones in order to inform future decisions about the iPhone designs and [TS]

  her friend Eric Michael Bowden to point out that you know but this time the [TS]

  iPhone seven is almost certainly already completely done and designed the new [TS]

  iPhone battery cases a signal that the battery life for the iPhone seven will [TS]

  probably the same or worse than the iPhone 6 and success you have to wait [TS]

  until the inevitably figure i Phone 7 released next year to introduce a [TS]

  battery case the press would have jumped on them saying improved battery life in [TS]

  the iPhone seven to be adequate now if Apple releases new battery case for the [TS]

  iPhone seven Apple battery cases will be old news because they of course just [TS]

  released this one for the iPhone 6 in other words this is the first Apple [TS]

  battery case not the last [TS]

  so that that all that from your friend I think that is pretty much on point I [TS]

  think he's almost certainly right that the seven is almost certainly done or or [TS]

  close enough to done that they wouldn't be making major changes to things like [TS]

  how large the battery is because that's a pretty major physical change to it to [TS]

  a design I'm guessing this is maybe not quite planned out quite that well but [TS]

  more like the battery case was dead [TS]

  seems like a band-aid solution it seems like something that Apple did not expect [TS]

  maybe even one year ago to be making and releasing now but that they they [TS]

  identified a problem / opportunity and made it to address that but I think he's [TS]

  right that there probably are not going to be meaningfully addressing battery [TS]

  life in the iPhone seven and if they were released this because they often [TS]

  seven gonna be out in you know what seven or eight months nine months so [TS]

  that you know apples apples very patient and so they were really good [TS]

  address this problem in the iPhone seven and give us a big chunk of battery life [TS]

  improvement they probably wouldn't release the battery case today or at [TS]

  least it would make it a lot less likely they would so i i think is right and I [TS]

  think we're going to have to live with it you know that people who want more [TS]

  battery power either gonna go go to the plus or just use external battery cases [TS]

  are battery packs like this theory only works if you assume Apple is the only [TS]

  company in the world that makes iPhone accessories battery cases have been a [TS]

  thing for ever like there is no idea that there is no additional wait for [TS]

  Apple making a battery cases like big cell battery cases in their stores [TS]

  people use them all the time it's a thing like Apple's just making one of [TS]

  them because if I got around to making one of them of course there is going to [TS]

  be like of course it's going to be like that's that's the way it goes right and [TS]

  predicting the battery life will be similar [TS]

  well it's been similar for many years now that's not a big surprise either I [TS]

  just don't make the leap always there for releasing this really is a way to [TS]

  avoid appearing to say that the iPhone 72 good battery life is gonna have the [TS]

  same as you know and the success within a small margin of error in its gonna be [TS]

  thinner of the phones I think it's a status quo and a lot of people reporting [TS]

  also like say no Apple makes a better case that let them know more information [TS]

  about who buys battery cases but they sell them in their stores they already [TS]

  happened informations they could be charging the battery cases they sell [TS]

  themselves from third parties just as well as they can be charging their own [TS]

  so I think Apple has a pretty good feel of who wants a battery case and what [TS]

  sizes are the most popular and it just made one for the same reason it makes [TS]

  leather case in the silicon case and cases for iPads and other accessories [TS]

  they make because of the things that people want to buy an Apple make one for [TS]

  you and you can buy from them and their margins are probably better than anyone [TS]

  else because they get good pricing on parts and they charge like 10 or 20 more [TS]

  bucks and everyone else for their logo it is also worth considering you know [TS]

  the the rumors are getting pretty strong as a lot of smoke and even some evidence [TS]

  now that there will be a new foreign China phone design soon we don't know [TS]

  how soon maybe it's in the spring maybe in the fall who knows doesn't matter [TS]

  that much to be honest but there there is certainly a lot of smoke by these [TS]

  rumors so there is very likely to be fired this is very likely to be a real [TS]

  thing that is happening and it's essential to make a new foreign if the [TS]

  rumors are true the foreign film will have the approximate internals of the [TS]

  iPhone's success now if you look at any kind of bad battery life graphs for the [TS]

  iPhones [TS]

  there was actually a noticeable jump from the five master the six and we saw [TS]

  we saw this for years beforehand with Android phones that are bigger than all [TS]

  the iPhones when you make a big phone you have room for more battery the [TS]

  reason why the six plus gets more battery life is because it has a battery [TS]

  that something like fifty percent larger than the six because there's room for it [TS]

  without making it too [TS]

  obscenely thick or two or two weirdly heavy for its for its proportional size [TS]

  and it out runs the screen like the screen up bigger to take more power but [TS]

  the more battery out runs the more screens so the bigger you make it like [TS]

  the more the battery wins exactly so it does look very likely they will be a [TS]

  foreign phone but if we follow that that advantage now then backwards back to [TS]

  making foreign phones again a four-inch phone with Apple's current priorities [TS]

  for thinness and and the expectation like the 5 S's way thicker than the six [TS]

  and the 62 has more battery life and because of that the ratio of the volume [TS]

  now they're not going to make a new foreign phone that's a stick of the 5s [TS]

  again it would of course be thinner it would probably be more like the iPod [TS]

  Touch oriole not not at the end but radios but it will probably be more like [TS]

  the success thickness but just in a smaller body that small foreign assuming [TS]

  it's real and assuming it's coming out soon and assuming it has the guts of a [TS]

  success would probably get pretty mediocre battery life even worse than [TS]

  the success I would guess well there's any other tool that they have their [TS]

  disposal but they've been leveraging is make it to the stuff inside upon less [TS]

  power so one thing is obviously if they do you know another process [TS]

  on the immune system on a chip that's some savings there the other rumors have [TS]

  been reading about as probably not the iPhone seven but the thing to think [TS]

  about the future is moving too old for the screens which is another power [TS]

  savings and you know you have to think what is left is taking power in the [TS]

  phones but there's send and receive for the cell signal which are not entirely [TS]

  sure how much you can do about that because a certain point you have to have [TS]

  a signal of a certain strength just to talk to the towers and stuff writes that [TS]

  there's the screen and there is the increasing the small number of chips on [TS]

  the thing most dominated by the system-on-a-chip and maybe I guess the [TS]

  RAM and so you get your biggest bang for the buck of making make you scream [TS]

  tickets power making system-on-chip to US power and that's what Apple has [TS]

  always been doing over time and so that is their tool to perhaps eventually [TS]

  outrun the tennis you know they're getting thinner overtime right so far [TS]

  they've just been kinda like on this night stage and I think you're right [TS]

  that the that they're not going to make it 4-1 as big as the 5s and therefore [TS]

  will probably get certainly will get worried about her license XXS eyes on [TS]

  certainly that well against works than the five wells gonna have a way more [TS]

  power efficient system 5 bested but then again I don't know they could under [TS]

  clock at the have to have tools at their disposal to set to essentially pick the [TS]

  battery life but I don't think it's crazy to say that the smartphone is [TS]

  going to get less gonna have low battery life just in general and and that also [TS]

  if you assume all this to be true that we are speculating on here that also is [TS]

  more explanation why Apple want to get into the battery case market now and [TS]

  can't get prepared for it and then when they released the new iPhone 6-4 [TS]

  whatever you know when they release a new small phone then Apple already makes [TS]

  battery cases and this is a thing that you can do if you do if you need more [TS]

  battery life will be offer it isn't a design flaw you see you could just buy [TS]

  this accessory if we make for this phone that will be smart and right there long [TS]

  time so I think it makes a lot of sense you know looking at them the most likely [TS]

  reasons why the battery case and as we said last week anything and [TS]

  and as as other people pointed out especially our friend John Gruber it [TS]

  really is not a terrible products it's just a little bit weird and and there's [TS]

  it's it's not that great to look at and it's a little as a few questionable [TS]

  design aspects to it but the functionality of everyone says seems to [TS]

  be pretty decent on that note I wanna do equipment a follow-up on my soul a memo [TS]

  case they ordered during last week's show now I actually got a chance to use [TS]

  it for a few days over the last week and it first of all it's not enough I [TS]

  certified so what that means is that Apple has not given three made for [TS]

  iPhone stamp of approval it basically means that Apple is not certified to be [TS]

  compatible and safe and everything else to use iPhones so there's some risk [TS]

  involved here and if I were using a case every single day I might reconsider [TS]

  using one that was not enough I certified and its weird like the new [TS]

  lightning connector on the inside that it uses the phone it's obviously like [TS]

  not a real Apple lightning plug this is obviously like a knock off in every way [TS]

  it's a knock off that's one of the reasons why it is shaped unlike any [TS]

  other iPhone country ever seen in the way it kind of like a cuddly mood [TS]

  lighting port down so it charges through lightning and just end it has no chin [TS]

  the only battery case I found it has no chin not even Apple's manages to do that [TS]

  but it's probably some good reason why within a month I suspect other people [TS]

  can't do that if I certified probably something about like you know how much [TS]

  stress can take a look kind of design it has to have something has to be or [TS]

  something [TS]

  overall it is surprisingly thin and light it is not as thin as like you know [TS]

  the apple of her case or anything you do notice that it does add thickness but it [TS]

  doesn't have a lot of size and so it actually feels pretty good to use it [TS]

  does not feel intrusive in the pocket it's an iPhone 3G / 3G s plastic feels [TS]

  pretty good to grip in the hand it is done so having trying a new battery [TS]

  cases maybe now appreciate that the one apple says call there's the smart [TS]

  battery case you know this one you have to turn it on and turn it off manually [TS]

  it does not turn itself off when the phone because under percent [TS]

  you know it or or when it's down to zero whatever they get it doesn't do anything [TS]

  smart it is literally just like you manually apply power to your phone when [TS]

  you feel like it and then you turn it off when you feel like your phone is [TS]

  charged enough it is done it is cheaper it is not enough I certified that being [TS]

  said it does work it is really small and it is really light and it feels good in [TS]

  the hand so i think im really bring it to compensate for the next nine months [TS]

  or so until the next phone comes out and ask me again how it is after the BBC [TS]

  double check your pockets or smoke while you're not the first time i charge my [TS]

  eye I was intentionally doing it during a long car ride the other day so that I [TS]

  could feel that was getting too hot the best place to have a fire is a moving [TS]

  car yet totally so anyway yeah not not terrible I would say for 50 bucks it is [TS]

  reasonably priced and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it just because [TS]

  I'm a little scared that it because it is not certified and because it is it is [TS]

  very nice coffee and a little scared of what it might do to someone's phone but [TS]

  I'm willing to take the risk of my own phone so that's that's useless and I i [TS]

  think I'd rather carry this then the six plus because I've determine the sex bus [TS]

  to be too large for most of the time I would rather carry this in the six plus [TS]

  we'll see what happens to the seven design and he would you bring this [TS]

  instead of your little pocket thing with the attached USB cable you know your [TS]

  pocket battery thing the pocket battery thing is going to have a much longer [TS]

  life because the pocket battery thing is going to work with Afghan seven and this [TS]

  won't you know that one and a half the price and a little more than three [TS]

  thousand million powers that the vote ready something ultra-slim something [TS]

  something with a built-in mic cable which is awesome you know that 125 bucks [TS]

  I still think is a certified so I would definitely recommend that one if you're [TS]

  looking forward to buy but if you want an actual battery case and not a [TS]

  separate thing that you have to carry around in your phone this is a decent [TS]

  case but if your gonna be using it that rarely I might even say go with Apple's [TS]

  just because it's officially supported a little bit smarter but I I don't regret [TS]

  buying it from my very limited needs out of battery cases usually I don't [TS]

  case battery case for the in a few weeks a year they really want one [TS]

  this is probably fine but if you can use it everyday I would say maybe get an [TS]

  improviser to find something it smart idea [TS]

  one suspect something that's awesome we're brought you this week by [TS]

  Squarespace start building your website today at Squarespace dot com enter offer [TS]

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  beautiful what are we really talking about tonight you wanna talk about how [TS]

  the Apple TV is making no money for app developers like every other app store on [TS]

  the platform they actually know let me try it again [TS]

  would like to talk about the challenges that are facing AppleTV developers in [TS]

  China I'm trying to make it would take more positive spin on this so let's [TS]

  let's talk about this this is something that you know in recent weeks we've been [TS]

  very critical of some stuff Apple has done I have heard all year from people [TS]

  calling me out for being too negative about Apple and and everything and we've [TS]

  got a little bit with the whole show it's been a lot of me though and it's [TS]

  rare that I have been very negative I wanted to kind of explain a little bit [TS]

  about why this touch arcade article that came out about two weeks ago [TS]

  editor's note to the popular games in the Apple TV after making $100 a day or [TS]

  less a worrying trend appears and the whole article is in it's it's it's [TS]

  pretty Randy and it isn't all fair criticism but there is a lot of fair [TS]

  criticism in it and I think it's it's worth considering for both Apple nothing [TS]

  able care or read it but for both Apple and for Apple developers like us it is [TS]

  worth considering some of these things and and kinda how that relates to Apple [TS]

  negativity and there is also a really good episode of Control Alt Delete which [TS]

  is a podcast with Patel and Walt Mossberg there is an episode I think [TS]

  this week alan dershowitz about kind of like being disappointed with with modern [TS]

  tech and kind of being burnt out on like where modern tech is going and kinda [TS]

  like whether we're like a kind of a slow period of of true innovation and so I [TS]

  think all this kind of combines with with what I perceive with with with [TS]

  Apple's current problems of just there's a lot of stuff that's like a 1.0 state [TS]

  or that's being pretty clearly neglected for a long time but I think I think what [TS]

  has happened is we had such a massive [TS]

  years of advancement over the last decade so much advancement even even the [TS]

  last two decades really there's been so much advancement of computing so much [TS]

  advancement in the web in phones and apps and how we compute what we compute [TS]

  on all in all the various options we have the how good the hardware is how [TS]

  good the software is how good the services are we have made tremendous [TS]

  strides but I think over the last I don't know three to five years I think [TS]

  we have picked so much of the low-hanging fruit already in in [TS]

  technology is that yes there there are things we can keep doing to keep making [TS]

  things better and keep uncovering new ground but I think it's getting harder [TS]

  and the number of asterisks the you have to accept on everything it seems to be [TS]

  getting larger because again like we've done so much of the easy stuff already [TS]

  and that's not to say there isn't anything left to do but I think the [TS]

  gains are going to be harder to get so for example if we near the standard is [TS]

  obviously a big sprawling feeling that hard to let me focus down for now to the [TS]

  Apple product line we are now at the point where the hardware is so capable [TS]

  that we are mostly used limited by like dumb physical attributes how big are we [TS]

  willing to make the thing so that we could have a screen is big enough to see [TS]

  or talk show or keyboard it's big enough to actually used I think what we're [TS]

  seeing is like once we start pushing the boundaries of well what if we want to do [TS]

  more on our I've had sore but what if you want to make our laptops even [TS]

  smaller an even lighter what we want to compute on our wrists [TS]

  we keep having to a disastrous like in order to compute and our wrists we had [TS]

  to have this weird the computer which is weird interface on it that can do some [TS]

  things but is really slow and is kinda nice for something but has to recover [TS]

  and reliable and and it's always weird stuff will be seen with laptops is w you [TS]

  want to push it so small and so light and so thin that now it has to be really [TS]

  slow and we have to get rid of all the ports which do occasionally come in [TS]

  handy and also the keyboard has to be here is really controversial very [TS]

  ultra-thin design that has a lot of problems for a lot of people [TS]

  and with the iPad pro this is this amazing device for people who do work on [TS]

  their iPad but it's so big that you can I can't hold it like you used to hold an [TS]

  iPad and you might not be able to you know do a lot of things that other iPads [TS]

  can do very easily with it because it's so big and so we're starting to hit [TS]

  these areas in which that we're just hitting tradeoff [TS]

  left and right like everything has asked to respond at everything has exceptions [TS]

  in the olden days we would have a smaller number of of more generalized [TS]

  products you know you'd you'd have a Mac and whether you got like an iBook or a [TS]

  paramount g5 they could do roughly the same kinds of things it would just like [TS]

  to know how fast you want how much space you need that kind of stuff now we're [TS]

  getting these products that are that are differentiated not by like minor [TS]

  suspected that but by like massive differences in how they can be used what [TS]

  they can do what they can't do or what they're really you know difficult to do [TS]

  with and so it just seems like we're fragmenting everything in the process [TS]

  were like we're starting a lot of things with with a weird one point was we are [TS]

  ignoring a lot of other things that's too much to manage the old and boring [TS]

  stuff is so if there is a lot being lost here and now to the point where people [TS]

  have to like struggle to figure out how to do basic things on the newest [TS]

  hardware that we have that we were able to on computers years ago because the [TS]

  news hardware so much better in certain ways it's really compelling the carrier [TS]

  to use whatever I feel like we are now at a point where there are there are so [TS]

  many tradeoffs being made to achieve what we think is next to achieve what [TS]

  you want to go next door or with that or the kind of hard everyone be carrying [TS]

  around and using there are so many tradeoffs now that in a lot of ways like [TS]

  things are getting worse or more cumbersome more complicated or less [TS]

  baked and were seeing weird products like these weird like laptop tablet [TS]

  hybrid that that are trying to cross these lines and kind of not doing a [TS]

  great job of it oftentimes and and I don't know it it feels like there's a [TS]

  lot of weirdness and the product line is a lot more saying no to two things you [TS]

  can do with it [TS]

  products rather than like you know before you buy a computer and anything [TS]

  you can do in the computer you can do a computer before now that's no longer the [TS]

  case in your smartphone's you go and you buy the iPhone and you have the best [TS]

  smartphone period that was it now that it isn't so simple anymore now do you [TS]

  also want an iPad or not you also want to watch or not there's there's so much [TS]

  variation now and in some way that's good even specialized you can make [TS]

  amazing hardware for certain rules but in so many other ways we are forced to [TS]

  make all these tradeoffs that we didn't have to make before and anyway this is [TS]

  all very very long and rambling but getting back to it the reason why I keep [TS]

  criticizing stuff when I when I want when I feel it's warranted that it would [TS]

  I feel like it's it's important is because this is where I do everything [TS]

  that this is this is my life is my hobby this is my work this my career I do [TS]

  everything everything I do I do with Apple products with my computer with my [TS]

  my phone like with all the stuff when anything about them gets worse or when [TS]

  the future of and it's called into question i dont wanna like go to desktop [TS]

  Linux or Windows like this is where I get my work done so I get very defensive [TS]

  of them and when I see Apple's patent themselves very thin trying to do all [TS]

  these different than the strengths figure out what the next version of [TS]

  computing is so they can dictate that and a known that and and figure that out [TS]

  I'm sitting here with my personal computing that has worked great for [TS]

  decades and I i can I get a little defensive of it and I and I get worried [TS]

  when the stuff I use becomes less reliable or less good or stops working [TS]

  at the expense of trying to push forward this this new world here that i think is [TS]

  is really trying to like it it's like it's like trying to extract oil shale [TS]

  you know it's like we should be put on the easy oil back forever ago now we [TS]

  have to get all these weird election stuff I don't know this is a very long [TS]

  around the argument I should cut this entire thing what do you guys think I [TS]

  mean is there anything to him saying here and I just totally lost or old [TS]

  think you need [TS]

  a new thought technology is not new ones that technology we already have just [TS]

  need to be applied in new context and this is this going more medicine maybe [TS]

  you are but if you ever find yourself thinking or saying anything that you [TS]

  know that people have been thinking or saying for the entire recorded history [TS]

  of humanity doesn't mean that you're wrong or that you're right but it does [TS]

  mean that you have to remember to sort of check yourself by saying all right I [TS]

  know just to give an example I know for a fact that people are always saying the [TS]

  kids these days that every generation thinks that the kids are like lazier [TS]

  than they are right when I was a kid I learned had you know to latin school the [TS]

  kids these days don't and whatever like we all know that right and so if we ever [TS]

  find ourselves saying you know is a true I'm out of touch know it's the children [TS]

  who are wrong if we find ourselves saying that because we know that people [TS]

  always say that we check ourselves and say okay doesn't mean that I'm wrong it [TS]

  could be the kids these days do have a problem and whatever but I have to be [TS]

  skeptical and have that feeling because there's a reason everyone always said [TS]

  that gets old and the kids and can't do things differently than they do anything [TS]

  the kids are lazy and not as good as they were and shit and they had a hard [TS]

  to the kids like we all know that one there is an equivalent you know [TS]

  repeating thought or historical fact or sort of feeling about the world in a [TS]

  different context and you Marco I think I have it on one of them witches [TS]

  computing is to be simpler we had PCs and even the smartphones be as smart [TS]

  phones in there was one of them and it was the best known and whatever else [TS]

  were inherent in that device it didn't matter because there was no other i [TS]

  phone you get because that was the iPhone and PCs in general purpose there [TS]

  was a long period of time where into the PC just got faster and better more [TS]

  memory more CPU more discs and laptops got smaller but not so small that they [TS]

  start outside improvises and they got faster and better and you know [TS]

  black-and-white to color screens and like it was just such a logical [TS]

  progression and part of the reason it seemed normal was because we were in the [TS]

  age when things are changing [TS]

  growing up during that time and anything that happens when you going out you know [TS]

  the old saying I think it's Douglas Adams or somebody or whatever technology [TS]

  exists when you're born you think it's normal whatever technology is invented [TS]

  before you're 30 you think is great in anything about that after thirty think [TS]

  it's unnatural domination alright so you're getting is totally real but [TS]

  because everybody always has that feeling every generation before [TS]

  everything whether it's the automatic transmission or the wheel or the [TS]

  horseless carriage or television versus radio or radio versus going to the [TS]

  theater or the masses not in Latin anymore whatever it is or the amazing [TS]

  variety of clothes that we have to choose from when I was a boy we just [TS]

  have one pair of pants and one shirt like you have to reexamine their [TS]

  everything you're feeling about this in the context of your own life and your [TS]

  own progression through this and it's like is this a natural part of getting [TS]

  older or is it a natural part of a market getting older because like some [TS]

  markets are maturing kind of stayed the same like for example mechanical watches [TS]

  not emotion there just bashing moving back and forth and some markets are much [TS]

  more dynamic like technology they're changing all the time and I guess that [TS]

  doesn't mean you're wrong about you know Apple being in a period where they're [TS]

  like either overextended or doing weird things are making different tradeoffs [TS]

  are perhaps not picking the best balance of the product line especially as far as [TS]

  you're concerned or whatever but it does mean that at the very least every time [TS]

  you have these feelings just like if you had the feeling about the kids these [TS]

  days you have to examine in a context honestly and even if you examine at the [TS]

  very least Voice the fact that you know this is that the shade it could be it [TS]

  could be that you're totally misleading yourself or whatever and I think that [TS]

  will go a long way towards getting to the heart of what is really going on [TS]

  because the feeling is real like the feeling is a hundred percent real but [TS]

  it's when you draw from that feeling of the conclusions that you have to be [TS]

  careful especially especially and I'm getting back to visit specifics more [TS]

  when in the case of Apple you find your way through a series of logical leaps to [TS]

  some sort of maliciousness or bad motivation whether it be greed or [TS]

  carelessness or [TS]

  you know whatever it may be because most of the time as we all know like things [TS]

  it's very easy to jump to conclusions about you know melissa has been really [TS]

  is just an unfortunate series of events or progress not actually made for you or [TS]

  you don't have all the information available all those other explanations [TS]

  because you know in the grand scheme of things Apple is not a super evil company [TS]

  and it's true that you can have a company called really good people but [TS]

  nevertheless does things that are bad but we all know abalone enough that I i [TS]

  really have a hard time believing the the most craving theories about why [TS]

  Apple does anything especially without in any actual evidence of then it seems [TS]

  like this is the type of thing they do because I'm mad about the fact that the [TS]

  product lines are changing and getting even more specific I think with the [TS]

  tradeoffs in the products like a big is a natural diversification of this type [TS]

  of fraud just like any other business where you start with something simple [TS]

  even just the Model T two comes in one color look at the variety of crazy [TS]

  things we have now did you see them was it the not the m6 this 6 x6 M at the M [TS]

  version of the stupid ex BMW 1602 1603 second it's like a it's like an SUV that [TS]

  as fast as as it just doesn't make any sense of the car like they make [TS]

  completely nonsensical things it's like oh I liked it better when we just saw [TS]

  the Model T and I was the card you can get you can get a Panamera you can get [TS]

  that I saw the x6 M you can get a Miata with the Fiat body on that I mean you [TS]

  can get all manner of crazy things in cars and it's like it was much simpler [TS]

  just like one or two cars it was but this is not the market goes on outside [TS]

  now to pick which trails taiwan don't want any manner to have to get this car [TS]

  but I can't find as many kids in it but then this has seats but they're small [TS]

  back seat but doesn't this fascist car it's like yeah that's just the natural [TS]

  progression of any market it's going to spread like that and it may be [TS]

  uncomfortable because we were used to especially in such a weird period of [TS]

  time only grew up hearing computers that when they were based in the same but [TS]

  better every year it was just such a clean wind it would be nice if things [TS]

  continue that way nice in terms of our comfort but probably not the right thing [TS]

  to do for the market anyway I'm not this is not a that this is not to dismiss [TS]

  your Chris isn't as I have Chris's he's up to we all do only to make a comment [TS]

  on how how I think we all have to [TS]

  look at the things that are legitimate upsetting us about technology prize in [TS]

  the grand scheme of things again but the technology products that were thinking [TS]

  about inviting him to use them for your work and it does have an effect on you [TS]

  an actual real effect is not all academic and there's nowhere else to go [TS]

  like well you don't know that because you just try that Froyo Android can be [TS]

  awesome I'm something more on the desktop like you could be right there [TS]

  they can't even say what does 10 10 10 might be good Casey likes of the Windows [TS]

  you can put them on the side of the screen and when I mean I i think for the [TS]

  first of all I think you're right I mean this is this is why everyone loves you [TS]

  because you're able to see through all of our emotions and and BS arguments and [TS]

  and and call it what it is so I think you're right [TS]

  emotions are real comeback ever shows a series of erotic references insensitive [TS]

  references that you don't get emotions are real like it's not it's not to say [TS]

  it's not to say that like oh dismissed the emotion like those are real [TS]

  your feelings are real and legitimate and I much validates them right it's [TS]

  like what you how you act on them and what conclusions you might grow and all [TS]

  I'm saying is to be skeptical when those thoughts fall into common patterns that [TS]

  we know economy doesn't mean they're wrong it just means like use that as a [TS]

  tool to churn through no I mean that's fair I i think part of what I'm feeling [TS]

  is that I really do think Apple has more quality problems now than they used to I [TS]

  really do think that they are spread more thinly needs to be and I really do [TS]

  think that their new products are not nearly as big hits or as clean of wins [TS]

  as their previous products but also it's it's that you know as you mentioned it [TS]

  used to be so much simpler you know it for a while there I I would get excited [TS]

  about almost anything Apple did because almost anything they did was potentially [TS]

  for me whereas now like you know right now everything's all all hyped up about [TS]

  I've had perot and the Apple TV crews the newest things and the kind of [TS]

  products I use like the biggest most powerful most expensive desktops and the [TS]

  biggest laptops don't get updated very frequently in meaningful ways the Mac [TS]

  Pro hardly ever get stalked the 15 inch MacBook Pro is actually due for an [TS]

  update pretty soon with sky lake and I'm sure they're gonna [TS]

  get thinner and lighter and with less battery life and everything and that'll [TS]

  be fine and I'll probably buy one eventually so you know the kind of [TS]

  product that that that I liked just kind of out of the PR cycle right now and and [TS]

  the kinds of products like the iPad is very frustrating to me because I have I [TS]

  I always want to really get into the iPad and just never it just never sticks [TS]

  from you never can can do what I need to do on it and I hear other people able to [TS]

  incredibly awesomely freely work on their iPad pros and get most most or all [TS]

  of their worked on the iPad and I feel like I'm living in honor of the plan [TS]

  here because I I just can't do that I'm afraid of you know the time being the [TS]

  old fogey hears you get overrun by these young people using iPads and and being [TS]

  able to I don't know a lot about me with their wonderful big light aircraft [TS]

  carriers that are the joint iPad but I think back to in in college [TS]

  there's sorry for the long long with a most unexpected but you know I think [TS]

  back to a time in college I had a professor who still there [TS]

  Gregory Katz hammer at Allegheny College I noticed his office that he was using [TS]

  desktop Linux and asked him like you know why don't why don't you use Windows [TS]

  why why using Linux to do all this stuff you know why why are you not using [TS]

  Windows across the world do you wouldn't it be more useful and and he said I [TS]

  don't use Windows because I can't get any of my work done it with us and the [TS]

  time that seemed like the most ridiculous statement I'd ever heard that [TS]

  allow what a huge nerd this guy is like I can't believe how could he not like [TS]

  his work on a Linux now looking back on it he was totally right and you know [TS]

  Linux really was the best platform to get all the work done and now if I say [TS]

  what is the best platform to get my work done it is very clearly Mac OS 10 like [TS]

  no question it's Mac OS and the reason I don't use windows and the reason I could [TS]

  not get any of my arms now my work might change over time obviously if I stop [TS]

  making ISR or Apple ecosystem apps then I could probably work very well on Linux [TS]

  because you know that I wouldn't need [TS]

  Xcode but the difference in like if you're using just how I feel like you [TS]

  have some kind of like ownership over that where it because it is so open [TS]

  source and weird and and and fragmented that that kind of keeps it healthy it's [TS]

  kind of like you know not having a monoculture as much [TS]

  whereas in the Apple world like one company controls my entire work [TS]

  environment my entire work and happy life one company controls all of that [TS]

  and also they seem like it's no longer really top of their radar anymore you [TS]

  know that and that's a little bit scary to me and so part of my reaction against [TS]

  everyone thinking of the word on the iPad is kind of a defensive position of [TS]

  like wait a minute I can't get my word on the on the iPad and also all the [TS]

  focus on the iPad is possibly costing the platform that you get my work on [TS]

  attention and maybe its future and that fuels threatening and you know obviously [TS]

  that's not a good position to be in [TS]

  to feel that way order to feel threatened obviously it's partially [TS]

  defensive and irrational and partially you know get off my lawn kind of stuff [TS]

  but it is certainly a feeling that i think is is worth recognizing I don't [TS]

  know what do you think so I think the problem that you and I have is that even [TS]

  though you said you kind of which the Apple ecosystem in 2004 is that right [TS]

  that's right right so for me it was I believe 2008 and I think the problem [TS]

  that you and I are wrestling with is that may be less in 2004 but certainly [TS]

  in 2008 when i when i became an Apple user things you're just getting better [TS]

  and better and better and better in pretty much every measurable way I'm [TS]

  sure if you were to go back to listen to podcasts from 2008 or 2009 we would have [TS]

  found something to complain about because that's what is often do but with [TS]

  hindsight I feel like it's fairly clear that things were just getting so much [TS]

  better so much quicker we were on this like hockey stick of awesome just going [TS]

  up and up and up and up and I remember being very happy about Snow Leopard and [TS]

  Snow Leopard came at the right time because I felt like that's when things [TS]

  are starting to get a little shaky [TS]

  and then Snow Leopard came into my recollection fixed a lot of the problems [TS]

  and I think that this the last year or so maybe a little more maybe a little [TS]

  less is the first time that I and i presume you Marco have had to deal with [TS]

  an apple that maybe isn't firing on all cylinders or or isn't isn't doing what [TS]

  we wanted to do which comes back with john was saying earlier you know maybe [TS]

  this isn't for us after all in and I think back to like the 2008 and I don't [TS]

  feel like they ever I don't think at that point they really had any terribly [TS]

  strong competition in the mobile space and I think anyone who paid even the [TS]

  least bit of attention would realize wow their computers are so much better than [TS]

  anything [TS]

  PC had any anything that Microsoft would have touched and and it was so obvious [TS]

  that that Apple was so much better in almost every measurable way and it was [TS]

  funny because at the time I remember saying to friends you know I hope that [TS]

  Android gets better and I hope that Windows Phone mobile six metro whatever [TS]

  it was called Pocket Edition Pocket Edition I hope that takes off because I [TS]

  want Apple to have competition I want them to have to work for it cause I [TS]

  don't want them to get complacent and looking back on it I almost wonder if [TS]

  that wasn't what we wanted because granted Apple shouldn't be complacent [TS]

  now and perhaps isn't complacent but at the time I feel like they were so far [TS]

  ahead of the competition that they could and meander their way into something [TS]

  awesome casually whereas today I don't know if I would go so far stirs plane [TS]

  goes so far as to say that they're playing catch up but things are not [TS]

  quite so simple anymore and I think Marco you had said earlier that said [TS]

  earlier you know entered funds are pretty darn good now and they're not [TS]

  there so there . they've gotten a lot better anyway and so a lot of the ways [TS]

  in which Apple was a clear and obvious winner they may not be the clear and [TS]

  obvious winner anymore [TS]

  in so I feel like where they used to be [TS]

  they used to be paving the the racetrack you know half half of the half length of [TS]

  track ahead of all the race cars now they're like yards ahead of the race [TS]

  cars and I think it's starting to show and so I think what we're wrestling with [TS]

  and I'm hoping channel provides some historical context here since I showed [TS]

  up is this is the first time that that you and i have seen in Apple that maybe [TS]

  has sputtered a little bit it may not be as bad as those three complete [TS]

  remissions make it out to be [TS]

  but I think we can all agree their sputtering a little a little bit just a [TS]

  little bit and it's hard for its hard for you and I to deal with that because [TS]

  we're not used to that we also sponsor this week by mail route should be [TS]

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  without spam viruses are bounced email if you can just imagine opening your [TS]

  email and seeing only legit mail that you want and need to receive or well [TS]

  that this isn't spam mail route can make this a daily reality especially for [TS]

  overworked corporate email admins and you have your own domain regardless of [TS]

  who hosted mail route can help they have revived long dead domains that were [TS]

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  your account you that you are a male red dot net / ATP for a free trial and 10% [TS]

  off forever thank you very much to mill around for sponsoring our show so going [TS]

  back to when I started out wanting to talk about with us this touch arcade [TS]

  article about the Apple TV app store apparently doing pretty poorly so far it [TS]

  does seem like one of the problems that that Apple's facing now is that even [TS]

  Apple seems to be trying very very hard to replicate their earlier successes and [TS]

  not really hitting them and and the article is talking about from the point [TS]

  of view of developers and end the app stores and saying that basically that [TS]

  not a lot of people are having success in the non iPhone and iPad app stores so [TS]

  the the watch and the Apple TV and maybe the macaroni that even talk to the Mac [TS]

  but certainly the watching the Apple TV like the new ones I would even extend [TS]

  that to say probably the iPad will see like right now the iPad Pro is out it's [TS]

  a good time for selling decent iPad software right now and the end of the [TS]

  iPad Pro will have momentum it is a very compelling product to a lot of people so [TS]

  it will succeed it will have momentum it'll do well my holiday season and will [TS]

  probably do well for the next year or so but then what you know because we we saw [TS]

  it happen with previous iPad software which was basically you know it was it [TS]

  did ok for a while but then it was very hard for developers to justify putting a [TS]

  lot of time to iPad vs their apps and it's going to be certain apps for it [TS]

  always makes sense I'm talking generally more apps general-purpose a degenerate [TS]

  productivity are browsing or social whatever kind of apps that people tend [TS]

  to want using their marketing devices the iPad historically has has been [TS]

  pretty far behind in a lot of this area because it just hasn't been worth [TS]

  developers putting on a time into it the sales didn't usually support it while [TS]

  the iPhone awaited very well so in this article they're basically making the [TS]

  same argument that like [TS]

  you know all these new App Store is he coming out from Apple and Apple keeps [TS]

  wanting developers to make all this great stuff for these new devices and [TS]

  new platforms but it doesn't seem to be working very well it doesn't seem like [TS]

  it's worth developers time to to to put much into those things and and if that's [TS]

  a shame because he's a platform that have incredible potentially if it's [TS]

  realized but it is not very very low sales figures for these apps I can just [TS]

  tell just like totally talking to my developer friends and seeing my numbers [TS]

  like from the watch and stuff it really does seem like developing for the washer [TS]

  the TV at this point is is probably not a great use of limited amount of time [TS]

  and you know developing just for the iPhone is probably a pretty safe bet for [TS]

  most apps unless they really need like a big canvas or they really need a TV [TS]

  version something but you know it seems like Apple had this great success with [TS]

  the iPhone and everything they've done since then has been trying to recreate [TS]

  that kind of tells me I mean obviously the cell phone market is very different [TS]

  with things like you know subsidies and just the pocket ability and everything [TS]

  like they're never gonna be exactly reproduce the iPhone success but they [TS]

  they at least one get like I don't know in the ballpark with an order of [TS]

  magnitude maybe and and and i dont [TS]

  I think they're having trouble replicating their own success and from [TS]

  the angle of developer lee with this is talking about it I i think one of the [TS]

  problems here is that Apple [TS]

  with the success of the iPhone and with the early success of the iPad or not [TS]

  live with the success of those two platforms and most of the iPhone Apple [TS]

  developed this this level of closed off Ennis and arrogance towards developers [TS]

  that I don't they always had it I was I wasn't an Apple Developer before that [TS]

  point but it's certainly in with the App Store era here and and you know it seems [TS]

  like they they have developed almost a hostility and in many ways it is [TS]

  hostility in certain ways it's not like the sourcing of Swift is solid and [TS]

  and they're really good move but but in many ways the actual experience of being [TS]

  an Apple developers especially if you rely on the App Store's you know if [TS]

  you're on anything but the Mac the actual experience of being Apple [TS]

  developer is pretty hostile at most times Apple has you know if you look at [TS]

  every other company in the industry every other company that has a platform [TS]

  that they that they that they need access to be built on they are all made [TS]

  with the possible exception of Amazon cuz they're just horrible but other [TS]

  companies try to attract developers to their platform they tend to make things [TS]

  nicer for developers they tend to actively recruit developers and try [TS]

  really really hard to get developers to their platforms Apple trustees [TS]

  developers their platforms the way New York rescue people to move here it's [TS]

  like they just like just barriers and brick walls and and taxes and down some [TS]

  like Apple basically says please don't bear be a developer here because for the [TS]

  iPhone they didn't they didn't have to go out and beg developers to come for [TS]

  their platform developers were not in the door down and Apple has been able to [TS]

  to to be carried by that all this time that attitude of like of being of the be [TS]

  in the maxim position of power not needing to really be nice for developers [TS]

  to it to work with at all for the iPhone but for their other platforms they're [TS]

  having these problems the other platforms developers are noting the [TS]

  doors down and I feel like Apple doesn't really know how to manage that situation [TS]

  they don't even know how to attract developers who don't already want to be [TS]

  there they certainly are not set up for it with the store or developer relations [TS]

  or any of these departments that that so far have not really need to do this at [TS]

  least in the last decade and I i feel like they don't even know how to solve [TS]

  this problem and and part of it is not their problems all part of the market [TS]

  problem of like well they got a you know get more of these devices out there and [TS]

  get people to buy more apps on them but a big part of it is like Apple's [TS]

  developer approach in general [TS]

  the app stores themselves and the after policies are all really fighting against [TS]

  developer adoption is new platform so I feel like this is one major way in which [TS]

  Apple is stumbling now and and I don't see an end in sight to the way they [TS]

  currently do developer relations and the app stores and so therefore I don't [TS]

  think the Apple TV and the water gonna really do well apple pies and I'm [TS]

  worried about the iPad pro once once the current like newness of it dies down [TS]

  just probably gonna be like six months no one that I worry about the health of [TS]

  the software ecosystems on these platforms it seems like Apple does not [TS]

  know how to manage that we feel ok about the iPad I think because like big [TS]

  picture type stuff from 1984 or not use max apple deputies before that and [TS]

  everything there is an overall arc choose marketed talked about like that [TS]

  you know personal computers became a thing in my lifetime anyway and for a [TS]

  while they had a steady stream of improvements obvious improvements to a [TS]

  basic form called the personal computer and roundabouts the time laptop started [TS]

  to become a thing that one solid for mattress base of the keyboard a box and [TS]

  monitor plus or minus the monitor being connected the box or whatever and just [TS]

  getting better every year [TS]

  floppy disks yeah well that that sort of became more diverse that the tree [TS]

  started to sprout branches and getting more brain cheer as we go here so that's [TS]

  that's diversify so there is that overall but still within that overall [TS]

  arc that he said this the ups and downs of Apple the ups and downs of the [TS]

  industry lots of other things going around have you seen more than one of [TS]

  those cycle it starts to not feel as panicking and you can say well this [TS]

  isn't as bad as it was when I go back came out and was better than every other [TS]

  computer in the world and nobody bought it certainly didn't have that problem of [TS]

  the iPhone and the iPad but really but I think you should feel good about the [TS]

  iPad for example is we ought to be between recently couple days ago about [TS]

  these stories of like elementary school teachers in computer lab having the the [TS]

  young kids coming to computer labs and be throwing the mice around cuz they had [TS]

  no idea what they were right because this is a generation of children that is [TS]

  brought up with phones that are like the iPhone and with tablets and some of [TS]

  these kids even if there was a PC in their house with a mouse that should [TS]

  have probably had never had any occasion to use it had no attraction to it were [TS]

  you know we're asking to grab their parents iPhone to play games on it if [TS]

  they didn't have one of their own and if they were lucky enough to have like a [TS]

  hand-me-down iPad or some kind of tablet wouldn't do stuff on that the personal [TS]

  computer as a thing to to the upcoming generation is indeed any examples [TS]

  because like they did NBC was probably a laptop and probably had a trackpad [TS]

  another thing that's not amount so it doesn't really matter in the grand [TS]

  generational scheme of things if this entire generation thinks of it doesn't [TS]

  think of computers or basically thinks of them as tablets and doesn't mean [TS]

  Apple's gonna win the market for tablets but it does mean that every every kid [TS]

  born into a world where they touch screens on their phones and tablets are [TS]

  they do everything has no attachment to the PC is that thing they're going to be [TS]

  you know when there are no professor they're gonna be like I was impressed [TS]

  you have this stupid tabloid lead touch on your thing I wanted to use of your [TS]

  headset is like I get my work done in this tablet because like why we use your [TS]

  head somewhere else use this template using a tablet examples I'm just taking [TS]

  things that have to be can relate to that the job of the company like a long [TS]

  long time help the company is a try to figure out what the next thing is and be [TS]

  there and Apple did a pretty good job that doesn't mean I was going to win the [TS]

  future so lucky enough to both invent the future with the iPhone say hey guys [TS]

  this is what a smartphone should be like there is like no you're totally right [TS]

  and then here we are today and they still did well Apple essentially [TS]

  invented the the future as we know it like this it looks like we've got like [TS]

  menus and dragging files around [TS]

  doing all this stuff and they more or less popularized that but didn't win [TS]

  that market someone else came to get those are great ideas now Microsoft [TS]

  Microsoft but we'll take those and run with it and we're going to do better [TS]

  than every other ways you're going to be a footnote in that race so I think about [TS]

  all these markets you talked about for like selling up to the iPad now is that [TS]

  pro gonna do has a television and do whatever I think the most important [TS]

  thing is to make sure that Apple is wherever these various markets are [TS]

  growing TV that boxes are thinking a little behind their stuff to be there [TS]

  are things that made them a thing mostly because I made the smartphone thing and [TS]

  Apple is also there and it's kind of still in the race so i'm not i'm not as [TS]

  really pessimistic about these things because Apple may not be the clear [TS]

  winner in all these categories but it is reasonably well positioned and the other [TS]

  thing that comes to mind [TS]

  historically speaking is whenever here Apple fans start to talk like Microsoft [TS]

  bands of older think like it the old deal Microsoft phantom when Microsoft [TS]

  ruled the world and apples a footnote and windows everywhere and and PC was [TS]

  just plain old PC and that will never change in Microsoft would live forever [TS]

  there was a mindset that any market makers of vendor they would when and [TS]

  microsemi center every market and that's unhealthy thinking like the iPhone as a [TS]

  phenomenal success and then it's like well if they if they if interested TV [TS]

  market the assumption is they wanted to be a successful as the iPhone not [TS]

  monetarily but you know in terms of like it is as successful of all the TV boxes [TS]

  next best one everyone agrees and they sell out of them and make a lot of money [TS]

  that they need to do to be the leader in that market [TS]

  be the best and then it needs to be super successful and it's impossible to [TS]

  do that but it doesn't mean Apple shouldn't be in those markets oh ok for [TS]

  Apple to enter market or dip is still in the market or noodle around the market [TS]

  for a long time like the TV boxes for that matter because it's important for [TS]

  them to be there to figure out what that's about [TS]

  and try to improve and try to be well position [TS]

  and if and when something takes off which lab also said to be our thing they [TS]

  do what they're making a car but i dont i dont get bent out of shape thinking [TS]

  about it's a real problem if people don't make lots of water out maybe watch [TS]

  ups as we as they're currently conceptualized are not even worth doing [TS]

  in which case it would like what are you winning is like a Pyrrhic victory you're [TS]

  in the top of a little tiny hill like we are the king of watch out seems like no [TS]

  one cares about watching not important to you it's a waste of time like don't [TS]

  like don't try to force it [TS]

  oh wow the markets to be what they're going to be in particular the TV at all [TS]

  I think about is is that a place where people make software and sell it for [TS]

  money that's a model that has worked on the App Store on the PC before but on [TS]

  television I think of all the apps that I use in its like I pay money to Netflix [TS]

  and Netflix need to have an Apple TV Apple money for the Netflix app I pay [TS]

  money to HBO HBO needs to have apathy but I don't pay money for the HBO let [TS]

  you know anything about you or something that just has to be there but it's not a [TS]

  situation which someone right software and sells it to me for money it is [TS]

  merely just a way to receive the content that I pay a subscription for alina mean [TS]

  that is kinda how every game console works though you know why am I telling [TS]

  you that does Apple have to try to compete with game consoles like they're [TS]

  they're figuring that like is this the future of gaming or is it not the future [TS]

  of gaming if it is Apple's reasonably positioned if it's not that you can't [TS]

  you know if traditional console model is still has like that Apple doesn't want [TS]

  to compete then and why would Apple that is an old model that works but it's [TS]

  certainly not like the future right so anyway I i think im just more chill [TS]

  about these things and I don't see every move that Apple makes into a new market [TS]

  is like a desperate ploy and that I must be down on it if it's not successful [TS]

  because almost nothing is going to be as accessible as the iPhone almost nothing [TS]

  is going to be successful as a PC conceptually not the Mac specifically [TS]

  but the PC was an amazing success Apple denied Sharon most success but how much [TS]

  how often you get the things you get the PC automobile [TS]

  movable-type got the wheel you've got the smartphone like we don't know what [TS]

  the next one of those things [TS]

  is gonna be tablets could just be an extension of the smartphone maybe var [TS]

  then maybe it's not I don't know but I'm fine with Apple making a TV box that [TS]

  hopefully is a decent TV box I would've been fine with the making a DVR but they [TS]

  never did because they don't love me you know I'm I think I think it's you just [TS]

  have to my kind of fighting inside the expectation that used to run Microsoft [TS]

  that they have whenever they did they had to be the winner and had to be [TS]

  awesome and had to be great like the Steve Ballmer gogogo type thing [TS]

  Microsoft found the limits that Microsoft found that eventually not only [TS]

  is this next thing you're not going to be the next big thing like pen computing [TS]

  for Windows where they were doing like not only are we not going to be speaking [TS]

  to our computers as the main form of input in 2001 as Bill Gates might have [TS]

  been surviving at some point in the past not only will you know whatever market [TS]

  Microsoft things like the Xbox be like the future of entertainment all those [TS]

  three successful as far as those things but there will be a big thing Microsoft [TS]

  will be in it [TS]

  smartphones and it will lose it will lose big it will have been there before [TS]

  everybody else and it will not only not win but it would just be a footnote like [TS]

  you know Windows stone right and that's that's what comes from expecting every [TS]

  single thing you do to that we're going to need them but you start to believe [TS]

  you're entitled to believe all we all my customers do is introduce a product in [TS]

  this category and we will be down and we will win and if we make up a new [TS]

  category like competing with a pen that will be the next big thing is our CEO [TS]

  says it is and when it's not will keep making new version a new version a new [TS]

  version and it'll be like understand what's going on here and then someone [TS]

  else will come out with you know the iPhone or whatever and make us all look [TS]

  foolish and so I don't know what's going inside Apple from the outside [TS]

  much more content to to let these things are certain to minus the stuff you're [TS]

  talking about with the developer relations sending goods legit issue that [TS]

  needs to sort out regardless of what platform it deals with including even [TS]

  the car we also sponsor this week by automatic automatic is a kinetic car [TS]

  adapter that plugs into your car's diagnostic port [TS]

  mechanic uses it pairs of your phone indicated there were twenty different [TS]

  apps to give you a better driving experience go to automatic dot com slash [TS]

  ATP to see for yourself and get 20% off [TS]

  off now automatic has always been able to help you in several ways if your [TS]

  check engine light comes on I can explain in plain English what's going on [TS]

  and let you clear the light for common errors can you log few trips and parking [TS]

  locations you can never lose your car and you can use your trip look for [TS]

  things like invoicing and keep you track your mileage if you have an accident it [TS]

  can call emergency services for you using the connection to your phone and [TS]

  its glory when you're driving so you can save money on gas and say you're in [TS]

  efficiency goals that a little help guide you into reaching into reaching in [TS]

  saving money and automatic also launched an app store for the car the individual [TS]

  automatics over 20 different answer available at target.com / apps allow you [TS]

  to use your card in all kinds of ways for example you can use concurred that [TS]

  you put your trip easily into expense reports FreshBooks can create invoices [TS]

  from your mileage will watch it can show your parking location right on your [TS]

  wrist license plus because your teenager safer driving and there's a big one if [TS]

  this then that I have TTT which give you the power to go to all kinds of recipes [TS]

  based on your driving and events happen with automatic along with the App Store [TS]

  on america's launched a developer platform for building as using the car's [TS]

  data is a modern rest and real-time streaming API with all off to providing [TS]

  easy access to a strip history including distance route time location miles per [TS]

  gallon etcetera and this is the very very easy to use REST API [TS]

  plenty of client libraries and examples too quickly launcher app on Heroku for [TS]

  example and you can get automatic normally it's a hundred bucks and are [TS]

  linked att.com / ATV gives you 20% off just 80 bucks normally now they're [TS]

  having a holiday sales this is amazing to the holiday sale brings it down with [TS]

  are linked to just $64 and there's no subscription fees no monthly fees no [TS]

  ongoing recurring fee whatsoever you by the automatic device up front and [TS]

  there's no recurring fee whatever you pay for the device that there's no [TS]

  service charge every month they are also free shipping in two business days and a [TS]

  45 day risk-free return policy so really there's no reason not to get it checked [TS]

  out today are match.com / ATP to get it for twenty percent office right now is [TS]

  just $64 total that's amazing [TS]

  check it out today army TACOM / ATP thanks a lot of the thoughts on this or [TS]

  do you want to take this to us [TS]

  happier place I have a lot of thoughts on it but I mean you broach the topic [TS]

  will save it for follow-up maybe we'll get feedback from people about it later [TS]

  I think what's tough about it is that like Marcos said we've seen feedback [TS]

  lately especially about how negative revolved then and you know it's a tough [TS]

  thing right because maybe we have been a little too negative but but we want to [TS]

  we want to call like it's like we see it and right now this is how we see it and [TS]

  I think I probably speaker Marco but I certainly speak for myself and trying to [TS]

  I i intend to try to find you know the more positive side of things going [TS]

  forward but we also don't wanna not say what we think you know and and and if it [TS]

  becomes a bear to listen to them and I'm sorry i genuinely am but you know this [TS]

  is this is what we think and you know what I think about the swift open source [TS]

  thing the more I see of it the more I like it I stride nice transition there [TS]

  now be brought before we even get off the night at like that it's not a choice [TS]

  between like you know I every time I get the license not about me is I had died [TS]

  saving I'm not too negative so I'm gonna be the one person will boldly say if [TS]

  you're sending an email saying to negative you mean me I disagree cuz i [TS]

  think im exactly did I normally and then again I also had a podcast called [TS]

  hypercritical maybe I'm hold myself to a different standard I think I think the [TS]

  issue is right that the trap is basically it's not a choice between [TS]

  although I'm not going to say what I feel you know I'm just being honest or [TS]

  whatever it's all about like I said at the beginning of this whole thing is all [TS]

  about it examination of you know your feelings are real and you have to [TS]

  examine them and examining with the lens of like could there be other really [TS]

  common reasons that I'm feeling things I'm feeling about this particular thing [TS]

  that are not explained by the conclusions I would like to eat too [TS]

  because I'm defenses or upset or just turned 30 in the world is passing me by [TS]

  his children swipe their fingers on their iPad screens and I media's amount [TS]

  of whatever you like it if I think most that be back is legit and its signal for [TS]

  for all of us yes even me to to just take a closer look at where where these [TS]

  things where these feelings are coming [TS]

  I think it because we've been super negative before it's mostly just about I [TS]

  feel bad and therefore I come to this conclusion of some of it granted some of [TS]

  it is people have anything bad about Apple but that they have their own [TS]

  things like why am I use upset when anyone says anything that out but Apple [TS]

  schedule of appellate that's a separate issue but there's enough of it and you [TS]

  know this is true of anything that you're critical of whether its star wars [TS]

  or apple or other things like it behooves all of us to make sure we are [TS]

  not being cliche and you not react to complaints of negativity immediately by [TS]

  thinking that now you just can't tell you what my real feelings are and I just [TS]

  want to be honest I'm just sayin understand the truth understand the real [TS]

  thing like it just to be to be self-critical like you know the greatest [TS]

  hypocritical always I can't do anything transition someone else can figure it [TS]

  out but yeah being self-critical is perhaps the most important place of [TS]

  criticism and I think it's worthwhile for all of us to do that and I think we [TS]

  try to do it to each other [TS]

  whichever one of us in the cranky mood hopefully I'll try to think about other [TS]

  ways that could be explained and so I think that's an ongoing thing and I [TS]

  think we'll try to do better in the new year [TS]

  absolutely so swift open-source we've talked about the sum and unfortunately [TS]

  the show notes are I think some of the things we've talked about some of the [TS]

  things we haven't but I I'm still stunned and extremely pleased with [TS]

  pretty much everything associated with this entire endeavor I cannot died I [TS]

  just can't believe that this is really what Apple is doing and just this week [TS]

  craig Venter et was on the talk show which I thought was awesome and there [TS]

  are some other guy on it to other than John Gruber I know who he was he was [TS]

  alright but but Federici was great and I thought it was really candid [TS]

  conversation it didn't feel to me like like it was all just BS marketing speak [TS]

  this is not unlike the conversation that that group Berhad with Phil Schiller [TS]

  wcco I thought was really great I think what they've done there is greed Chris [TS]

  Lattner if you wanna come on the show let us now open source thing with [TS]

  swiftly way it's being handled and and how receptive they've been two editions [TS]

  from the community like her last name Erica Sadun [TS]

  she had pitched getting rid of increment decrement operators and that apparently [TS]

  is going to be a thing for lips sorry my battery of the classic for Lori sorry my [TS]

  apologies but that's another gone and I just think that's phenomenally awesome [TS]

  and and I really genuinely commendable for pretty much everything that they've [TS]

  been doing around the space I know what do you guys think the stuff I have been [TS]

  so stop the basis for the first time we discussed it but it's not dead but that [TS]

  our fun person with a tweet from Chris Lattner from a little while back says [TS]

  Swiss comments and tests we are on track to be one of the most correctly spelled [TS]

  investment dented ones in the industry and this maybe this makes no sense but [TS]

  it's a comedy like when you have an open source project and he put it out there [TS]

  is a lot of excitement about that there is about sweat a lot of people who [TS]

  wanted you thinks the easiest thing to do is sort of like shedding or whatever [TS]

  to say I'm just gonna go on their fix typos and I'm going to reinvent this cos [TS]

  the spacing is all messed up and and this thing is it's really easy to do [TS]

  that and you have a million people in the just that I say I just want to go in [TS]

  there and fix something so I just for kids get up and go into the [TS]

  documentation and test women like fix the broken indenting and there's a lot [TS]

  of people with enthusiasm and that's how they landed and it's kind of like on the [TS]

  one hand you could be saying that like prisoners being mean don't you see a [TS]

  contribution and we're fixing your spelling and typographical legitimate [TS]

  concern but that's not how I meant it all as Matthew Palmer Park doubt anyone [TS]

  teaching people about what he calls pedantic PRS pull requests swiveling the [TS]

  first nine Chris Lattner commit with type of pics [TS]

  and that herself to clarify later made it over to the side making small [TS]

  improvements is one that everyone get started this is open source works hey I [TS]

  want to help contribute swift but I am NOT ready to declare the language to [TS]

  work as I have never even written anything in it go fix typos go fix [TS]

  inventing go fix a test suite go final test that fails on your system and make [TS]

  it so passes on your system by adding a new conditional improving the capability [TS]

  to something that's how open source works so and I think the spirit of these [TS]

  tweets about like the best Belden and ended things like that that's the spirit [TS]

  of like joyfulness of like look at all these people who talked about it on the [TS]

  talk show like tremendous of activity around so it's so much enthusiasm and [TS]

  isn't had nowhere to go into office closed source and now that it's open [TS]

  source all these people who are jazzed about Smith have someplace to put that [TS]

  effort and just having hundreds and thousands of people making this thing [TS]

  but I like it's going to be awesome for Apple that's like essentially work you [TS]

  know the magical elements are you getting free labor that's making things [TS]

  better for everybody including us and everybody happy about the people do it [TS]

  because they feel like I contributed to this big thing that that's important to [TS]

  all of us is happy because this stuff is getting better it's it's great to have [TS]

  been I've been really impressed by all of it what else to do we have in the [TS]

  show notes here the license you wanna talk about all that that John yeah it's [TS]

  gonna talk about the Apache to license I'm not a connoisseur of open source [TS]

  license licenses but was pointed out to me one interesting thing about apache [TS]

  other than the fact that being like a nonviolent the GPL license that is [TS]

  suitable for commercial entity like Apple to use for its software so that [TS]

  doesn't open source everything that it right in swift or whatever else ever one [TS]

  particular part of it is the patent grant that basically makes it gives [TS]

  people covered say hey if I use swift for like whatever I'm doing I'm making [TS]

  some embedded software for like you know [TS]

  lights which they can wifi light switches something I want to do it do I [TS]

  have to worry that Apple's gonna sue me for violating some patent or something [TS]

  like that and the attitude license grants you know if you use the software [TS]

  this license you know that it's legally is but each contributor hereby grants to [TS]

  your perpetual worldwide non-exclusive non-transferable revocable except as [TS]

  stated in the section patent license to make have made use oversell bottle but [TS]

  like everyone who contributes as baseless saying if you're contributing [TS]

  something that you have any patents [TS]

  contributor grants to you a license those patents and then there's the [TS]

  function of the end it's as if you institute patent litigation against any [TS]

  entity including a cross-claim or counterclaim lawsuit alleging that the [TS]

  work or a contribution incorporated within the work constitutes a director [TS]

  contributory patent infringement than any patent licenses granted to you under [TS]

  this license shall terminate so basically if you contribute stuff and [TS]

  interest to other people feel like hey that's my pen and work in there then you [TS]

  lose all the patent protection it's basically a way to try to work around [TS]

  their stupid patent system to make people feel safer about both [TS]

  contributing to the best or whatever it things on the Apache License and and to [TS]

  using it and to dissuade people from like putting a little patent time bomb [TS]

  and trying to see everybody who uses because their patent things in there [TS]

  that is pretty clever he's assuming that I am i understanding of it is the [TS]

  accurate but bottom line is that this is something that would make the Apache [TS]

  License particularly appealing to Apple and make it appealing to people who want [TS]

  to contribute because you might be afraid of hurting your project to do a [TS]

  project run by a company that has a million patents and has litigated based [TS]

  on patents in the past Apple has alright so we did not talk about the package [TS]

  manager yeah this is a sort of a human interest story angle type things so I [TS]

  don't know much about the manager of then we will put a link to ensure that [TS]

  is open source and you can look at it [TS]

  but probably one of the developers behind it the guy who made homebrew [TS]

  package manager open source package manager for us 10 name is Max Hall and [TS]

  the reason this came up in our little circles is he had some snarky tweets [TS]

  about Google not hiring him like he interviewed a Google and apparently [TS]

  google did not want him and maxed out like they didn't want him for dumb [TS]

  reasons [TS]

  regardless of why Google didn't want him they didn't hire them and use them to [TS]

  write and had him write a package manager for swift and considering hero [TS]

  home brew which is pretty popular tax matter for us 10 he probably has some [TS]

  significant experience writing thank you letters so hopefully he did even better [TS]

  job on the second one and that like his complaint was basically like they wanted [TS]

  me to do computer science stuff and they won't hire me even though they use [TS]

  homebrew in Google I so you have your own place using my software but they [TS]

  won't hire me because I can't do somewhere computer science nutrition [TS]

  thing in his perception of why he wasn't hired have always thought that that type [TS]

  of interview not Google specifically because they're hiring change over the [TS]

  years and the measure with like these days but that type of hiring thing not [TS]

  the puzzle hiring but where you interview people and you want them to [TS]

  demonstrate their knowledge of theoretical computer science concepts [TS]

  this there's value in that but I feel you have to hire based on a balance of [TS]

  things so maybe higher some some guy who is really strong academically in those [TS]

  lot a lot of the conceptual stuff but has never really read networking program [TS]

  in his life is a well balanced like it you know he's I wouldn't he's not a [TS]

  great programmer and maybe the language and writing but he conceptual he knows [TS]

  some really important and and heavy-duty things so that guy is the higher the [TS]

  other side of that is maybe this guy doesn't have a degree may be dropped out [TS]

  of high school for all you know but he's written he has a history of work of [TS]

  products of actual software that people use that maybe we even use that shows he [TS]

  knows how to create a good working product that people like but he doesn't [TS]

  know anything about computer science there may be that guy on bio [TS]

  unbalanced should also be higher if you just say there's a minimum barn you [TS]

  gotta know this minimum theoretical stuff and we don't care if you have any [TS]

  practical skill you'll end up with a bunch of like just cats wander around in [TS]

  your office thinking deep thoughts and never getting anything done and i'm glad [TS]

  to see that Apple is hiring process [TS]

  recognized you know it obviously was so I think for different things and I mean [TS]

  really the hiring process can be like homebrew we've heard number that's [TS]

  pretty cool and then you just make sure he's not a crazy person and that he can [TS]

  get along with people and that is interested in doing what you want to do [TS]

  which may be right back in management and great you're hired so I think this [TS]

  is a win for Apple and Google necessarily need him to write a package [TS]

  manager for them or something but I just always that they're hiring is slightly [TS]

  unbalanced in terms of in again like maybe there the whole thing was like [TS]

  it's worse for us to have a bad higher than to skip a good hire so maybe to [TS]

  work exactly as designed and that there was a study or whatever that went around [TS]

  the web recently that one bad hires much more costly than missing out on a good [TS]

  hire so that could be cool policy as well so maybe going to everybody but you [TS]

  seem like a happy ending to what could have been a sad story and this guy who's [TS]

  obviously got some skills and he found a good home in Apple did have you had a [TS]

  chance to look into the swift 3.0 goals because there's a whole I guess this is [TS]

  a repost that is with devolution that talks about among other things [TS]

  what's going to be happening with three yeah that's an ongoing thing there's a [TS]

  mailing list which i subscribe to and it's such high-volume that it I can't I [TS]

  can't keep up with it like not only do I have that filtered somewhere but I tried [TS]

  subscribing to the digest version so they can handle the activity I keep [TS]

  thinking its gonna die down but boy yeah they're 3.0 [TS]

  iran oil is still up in the air people are still thinking of things people are [TS]

  proposing like you know major things right now like more significant than [TS]

  getting rid of classic for lives and you know a plus + and minus minus much more [TS]

  significant than most of them will not be adopted but the fact that stuff [TS]

  that's what the discussion is the disease being entertained and discussed [TS]

  it a little bit scary and the like [TS]

  things down more than that by now maybe we haven't maybe this is just exuberance [TS]

  activity but it's exciting to see it happening in real time and you can [TS]

  contribute to it if you're not a dummy like me and respond to digest version [TS]

  and forget to put the subject line and see your first post has no subject but [TS]

  that the worst I even have undo send on Gmail just a quick too long to notice [TS]

  that under things went away any longer time [TS]

  old stupid but yeah like the only thing over there are hard investors like [TS]

  things they say are a legal language level concurrency not in 3.0 and it's [TS]

  good to draw that line because that's a whole can of worms they did you know [TS]

  it's good to do anyway but but minor things you can see them happening in [TS]

  real time subscribe to The Mentalist and just try to read the coming up there [TS]

  every day and there's a process as a proposal process this discussion [TS]

  everyone gets to contribute to the discussion effectively because if you're [TS]

  not going to implement the feature yourself not going to adopt it like [TS]

  actively Apple still in charge of this whole thing it's not as if democracy and [TS]

  if we all vote for some silly feature that Apple doesn't want that they're not [TS]

  going to happen but that's the nature of open source of people if everyone in the [TS]

  community literally everyone in the community wants classic bartlett's backs [TS]

  Apple doesn't the community just orkut and go ahead now you are you the [TS]

  developer you know you develop your four given a different name [TS]

  gonna that's the magic of open source but for now everyone seems to be singing [TS]

  Kumbaya and be perfectly willing to throw a million proposals at Apple and [TS]

  discuss them at length and then just trust that Apple is going to pick the [TS]

  one that is both things are useful and have reasonable support and hear more [TS]

  John talking like this I have to say yes everybody listen to the talk show [TS]

  episode from this past week featuring craig Venter ed and our friend John here [TS]

  is obviously like you know if it was big news but honestly John I thought your [TS]

  segment was really really great you really really killed it so good job [TS]

  there and I definitely recommend for our listeners if you are interested in [TS]

  hearing about [TS]

  swift being open source you must listen to that episode of the talk show it is [TS]

  long but it is worth it helps if your programmer because I sometimes feel bad [TS]

  when I go up not even john is an hour but like you know it was an episode [TS]

  about swept indeed anything else about swift open source saying that you would [TS]

  like to discuss tonight it would you like to hold off for another day [TS]

  now some of his aging like I would say if you want to still keep up on this [TS]

  will just do subscribe to the mailing list you know it's the best like it's an [TS]

  insane amount of activity if you have any interest at all in may feel like you [TS]

  know drinks from fire hoses the other thing you can do is subscribe to [TS]

  people's blogs like Eric had a post about like here's the interesting things [TS]

  that happened on the list this week you know her opinion like then you don't [TS]

  have to read 2000 messages someone smart will just pick up the things that are [TS]

  actually interesting and you can kind of get a summary like even that's one of [TS]

  the cool features of the Pearl $5 which are actually surprisingly active given [TS]

  the popularity of these days but even that is too much to go through we wanted [TS]

  something like ten or fifteen people talking back and forth to have weekly [TS]

  summaries here's what happened in profile for us this week and just kind [TS]

  of a summary of the of you know of everything literally just the regular [TS]

  and so if you can handle two million but the people in the mailing list that are [TS]

  contributing the most probably have blogs subscribe to their blogs and then [TS]

  you'll get one step removed today makes it exciting times thats West an apple [TS]

  and bring it back around a little bit 20 percent earlier like you know as as [TS]

  Apple is so big and so now sprawling and and as they keep doing things that don't [TS]

  have have kind of a mixed appeal to people like us or at least to me like [TS]

  something they do I'm really into and a lot of things they do I'm really not and [TS]

  you know as as this happens and as as we see them stumble here in there and as we [TS]

  see things that aren't as good as they should be here and there it is really [TS]

  easy to get really negative stuff and I really kind of fighting that for a while [TS]

  and trying to figure out how to reverse that [TS]

  that negativity in me and in in the way I feel about it though a talk about it [TS]

  and I think one way to do it than that I really want to focus more on is that [TS]

  even though the company is really big and they do some pretty crappy things [TS]

  here and there in my opinion there are areas like this [TS]

  areas with the swift open sourcing that's going on now where they really [TS]

  are doing really great things and and even if over time those areas that [TS]

  they're doing great work in become a smaller proportion of the of the things [TS]

  they do is in the way that I care about them [TS]

  the fact is they are still doing a lot of really good stuff like that and you [TS]

  know I can I say this on my 05 ke iMac from last year that I absolutely love [TS]

  using an OS that I absolutely love that I get all my work done on and I don't [TS]

  want to change so you know there is a lot of good there and I think the way [TS]

  forward in in trying to mature in my discussion about this and trying to [TS]

  minimize negativity unnecessarily is really just to to find the positives [TS]

  because they are there I completely agree one final debate on speaking of [TS]

  the positive it's about sweat this is a treat from Danny greg has you kinda love [TS]

  the swift team referenced tweets in their source this is the exact opposite [TS]

  of radar or gtfo its claim that is credited with it but say one of the [TS]

  matches from Apple many years in the past and today to some degree the well [TS]

  is so you can assign a person W are you seeing you like there's a bug in your [TS]

  API irresponsible the whatever library when you do this with the whatever [TS]

  library this thing happens or whatever in Apple people would say you have to [TS]

  file a radar you can't just tell me you can't just like shout at me in the [TS]

  hallway and tell me that if you passed know who this parameter crashes right [TS]

  you have to follow read about how we track things that's a bug tracking [TS]

  system and the swift approach to this is someone to eat something and someone on [TS]

  the 15 sees the Tweed and I guess they make the radar they had the bug tracking [TS]

  issue or whatever and then when they fix it in the source code they reference the [TS]

  tweet that told them [TS]

  about this crash sure so that's what they're saying it would denigrate in [TS]

  this week the best like if you look at the Swiss source code you will find [TS]

  links to tweets saying this is why we know about this bug this person tweeted [TS]

  this and then we might have fixed it was just totally the opposite of you have to [TS]

  go to Apple's official bug tracker and follow radar it's useless even talking [TS]

  to me and both are good advice like you can't really tell people the Honda [TS]

  expects them to you wanna if you want to work in the city within the system but [TS]

  on the other hand swift the 15th so engaging the community that they know [TS]

  they're stealing in people's tweets about these things and they see it says [TS]

  have got a crash on this whenever they will know and I guess they added to [TS]

  their own bug tracker or whatever you know paste the link between to the [TS]

  source code remind them later to click on that link to go back into the guy who [TS]

  said they had this thing and follow up with them or whatever is total community [TS]

  engagement always down to the level of representing referencing tweet that led [TS]

  to bug fixes which is fascinating from the perspective of a company that [TS]

  popularized the term radar GTFO I think we're good they said 43 sponsors this [TS]

  week [TS]

  Squarespace Melrose and automatic and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  Casey [TS]

  it was accidental and Marco [TS]

  it was accidental and Marco [TS]

  damn car's name is the x6 and the stimulators it's not the MCX 6 a.m. and [TS]

  the x6 M because the exits in the car in this and the Ember not the M Sport but [TS]

  the actual em so it isn't am car but it's not an M card is the M's at the end [TS]

  anyway 3.7 seconds to 60 3.7 seconds to 64 basically an SUV look at this thing [TS]

  it's like making it it's like making a hippo dance like it's just amazing what [TS]

  you can do it like and the car driver review of the shootout between these [TS]

  cars like this one and whatever the mercedes one is it was like these car [TS]

  shouldn't even existed unholy that they're able to make the public but why [TS]

  like it's fascinating I guess but no one should ever by these cars they make no [TS]

  sense and it defies the laws of physics that like you make us think honor this [TS]

  flat and go this fast like going through Sloan cones and doing like handling [TS]

  things and shape the center like a Jeep Cherokee with a little bit lower hood is [TS]

  what what a whirlwind case you want someone else he would like the American [TS]

  version better prolly but it is way too good looking for cases on it [TS]

  exact the hideous I know this is too early for me to ever Jerome area comes [TS]

  in white guy he so much although I do love you John for knowing the very very [TS]

  nuanced difference between an M Sport car in an actual M car how could I not [TS]

  how could I not spend enough time with us to knuckleheads and I don't blame you [TS]

  and Carly to do since we've already open the neutral door I drove a Tesla yes so [TS]

  tell us about that dear friend of the show [TS]

  underscore David Smith has quietly bought his family a Tesla Model S a [TS]

  ninety and he he and his family visited this past weekend very very briefly as [TS]

  they were [TS]

  swinging through Richmond he took me for a ride and I know this is not the David [TS]

  Smith that I met a few years back because we got to the end of my road and [TS]

  at the end of the road that my house is on it teason to a pretty big road I [TS]

  don't remember the exact words that were used but something along the lines of [TS]

  are you ready [TS]

  came from underscores mouth and you have to understand kids that underscore used [TS]

  to drive a Corolla and although it was his idea for mark when I to join him at [TS]

  the two-day am driving school I think he was the least aggressive of the three of [TS]

  us is effort to say no easily and next thing I know he's saying to me are you [TS]

  ready and then he stands on the gas will make a 90 degree turn on the gas sorry [TS]

  the throttle tapers off TV so I can watch it later I don't even know where [TS]

  to go from here but anyway so he took at first he demonstrated autopilot which [TS]

  was fascinating and petrifying he drove reasonably briskly which made me so [TS]

  happy I cannot even begin to describe it and then we got back we went on like a [TS]

  literally five to ten minute loop which involved a little bit of kurds a little [TS]

  bit of travel on highway and then a little bit of just like regular surface [TS]

  roads and then he offered for me to drive and do you basically the exact [TS]

  same circuit first impressions the car doesn't creep when you come off the gas [TS]

  however there is a setting which is extremely weird and no I believe they do [TS]

  well I don't know if it's creep mode I see what your saying that I didn't get [TS]

  it at first but a good name for those you really don't want that on right [TS]

  exactly in the funny thing was underscored said to be well you know [TS]

  this is gonna be more like your car which doesn't really creeped when you [TS]

  come off the brake which generals true [TS]

  but my brain was an automatic mode where if you come off the brake you're going [TS]

  to move forward and it didn't take long for me to get used to the cream not [TS]

  being there but was peculiar because my brain had to like balance this threshold [TS]

  between driving a stick and driving automatic which is very peculiar he [TS]

  spent a long time and i genuinely glad he did explaining to me how freaking [TS]

  weird regenerative braking is and you know what it's freaking weird that's an [TS]

  option to buy the way you can turn off the one foot driving mode but it's [TS]

  stupid because you don't turn it off to get used to it yeah you can turn that [TS]

  down [TS]

  yeah I was about to say just like market estate you know you can also turn it [TS]

  down I think it was resetting it soft medium and high or something along those [TS]

  lines [TS]

  the funny thing is like it was really easy for me to drive Tesla's because my [TS]

  cart with the DCT doesn't creep that's true and it has so much engine vacuum [TS]

  when you let off the gas that it really pulls you back almost like regenerative [TS]

  braking so in in the settings you were using it actually feels a lot like my [TS]

  car that's when you're doing that you're not getting any gas back from this break [TS]

  we're expensive breaks yeah that's right what's the countdown for months or so so [TS]

  we eventually take off and and i got you know halfway down my little neighborhood [TS]

  street and I got going just just a hint to quickly so I could feel the [TS]

  regenerative braking and it is weird man it's not that terribly dissimilar from [TS]

  driving a Wrangler at speed where if you take your foot off the gas you just [TS]

  suddenly kind of stopped but the difference here again is instead of it [TS]

  being because there's so much wind resistance against this rolling box in [TS]

  this case it's because you're saying John you are actually recovering [TS]

  electricity which is really cool and so what ended up happening was it didn't [TS]

  take me too long to as one of you just said Dr with basically only one foot and [TS]

  it's weird I liked it was kind of a fun game but it is weird that being said I [TS]

  eventually got onto a larger road and [TS]

  you know kind of creeping a little bit and then I stood on the accelerator or [TS]

  throttle if you will and by god the closest thing I can the closest analogy [TS]

  I can make is imagine a turbocharged cars like mine or like Marcos where [TS]

  you're in a relatively low gear at reasonably quick speed so say I'm in [TS]

  like 2nd gear like fifty or sixty miles an hour so if I stand on the gas at that [TS]

  point presumably the turbo is already providing boost and if I stand on the [TS]

  gas I'm gonna go and I wanna go with the quickness well a relative quickness [TS]

  given that I'm burning did dinosaurs this thing however felt like that from a [TS]

  stop from any speed from any speed there was instant infinite power and the 9th [TS]

  ed as I said to Marco after I drove it it is sufficiently fast now as I also [TS]

  said to Marco I'm not used to Marco being satisfied with sufficient it was [TS]

  without question [TS]

  sufficiently fast told you so it is it is absolutely true I still think you're [TS]

  gonna get the performance version but it is sufficiently fast thanks and I [TS]

  decided this week but I'm getting really so it just just looking at the figures [TS]

  today like should I just go performance anyway and thinking I still think [TS]

  probably not but I was tempted I just just to let you know I will get what one [TS]

  thing that I learned while browsing around their forums which I have seen a [TS]

  lot of Internet communities it might in my time so far and the Tesla forums are [TS]

  not among the most hopeful that I have seen but one thing that I learned from [TS]

  these random strangers of very mixed credibility and relevance skills and [TS]

  writing skills on a page that loads incredibly slowly because what year is [TS]

  this [TS]

  anyway on the official forums I learned that apparently there the quoted range [TS]

  that you get goes down pretty hard over time it says you lose like three to five [TS]

  percent a year [TS]

  sounds like a lot and like like the range of free to go from 85 to 90 D is [TS]

  only six percent and the difference between the the non P and the PC version [TS]

  in battery is something like twenty percent so it's actually it's a pretty [TS]

  big difference and so i i wonder you know i i think maybe I really might want [TS]

  the maximum range and to not get the PC version if for no other reason which [TS]

  store of everything but if for no other reason than to really maximize my [TS]

  initial range because I'm not even be getting that in like two years you know [TS]

  but the myself more padding on the Rings take their naps during the battery swap [TS]

  for $99 lithium-ion batteries that just like the one you're gonna get crap here [TS]

  as he is I'm you know it's funny you bring that up because he played a couple [TS]

  of interesting points the first thing he said was you know if you were going to [TS]

  buy one which I'm not but if you're going to buy one in three years too much [TS]

  money if it was if it was affordable hey whatever happened I was trading my car [TS]

  ready same thing about Apple products same thing on the list slightly more [TS]

  expensive than the average car than a Mac is the average pc [TS]

  thank you john in terms of terms of absolute values if not percentage amount [TS]

  of three comes right so we'll see but anyway he made an interesting point [TS]

  which was the way this technology is an end with the way the batteries are it [TS]

  would probably be a pretty dumb idea to purchase one rather than least one and [TS]

  I've never had elisa my life and they seem in a lot of ways like a complete [TS]

  waste of money to me but I think he's probably right in this case that it [TS]

  seems like it would be silly to purchase a car where when you fill the tank so to [TS]

  speak in three or four years you will not be able to fill it as high as you [TS]

  were once able to when it was new to remember the the plan for the quick [TS]

  charge stations that instead of the supercharger they would take the battery [TS]

  out and give you a new one [TS]

  I don't know if that's the thing anymore but I do remember that plan and it [TS]

  wouldn't be a new one it would just be a different one gets its like any propane [TS]

  cylinders at the hardware store you might get a new one but chances are [TS]

  hitting someone's old rusty one yeah I mean that the majority of the cost of [TS]

  the car he says that big battery and so there's no avoiding the fact that [TS]

  they're gonna get older they gonna get trapped here and yet at least three [TS]

  starts to make sense in that scenario but promised them when the lease is up [TS]

  to you [TS]

  least another one like they're not gonna yes there's going to be a secondary [TS]

  market for them but at a certain point the battery is crap like you know just [TS]

  we have been around long enough to get you find some Tesla Roadster and see [TS]

  like other test test the road to choose out there that just no one wants because [TS]

  it's like it's like selling a car with it was seized engine that gets fine but [TS]

  you just need a new engine its $100,000 battery pack this this is not a car that [TS]

  I would want to own outright just because it is changing so much still we [TS]

  still have the Model S has only been around for what three or four years so I [TS]

  like it has been out walking right so we don't really know what the used market [TS]

  is like when they get at least residual they really are discounted guessing it [TS]

  so by leasing you're putting the risk on Tesla not on you and I think for for a [TS]

  product this young with advancing so quickly plus like that they keep [TS]

  advancing the features and and the product line and the hardware the table [TS]

  in the car wake you know in six months after I get mine there's gonna be some [TS]

  massive new feature the my car can do they're gonna wat you know because they [TS]

  keep they make things so quickly it isn't even on a yearly schedule they put [TS]

  every four months we just knew new features new changes and some of them [TS]

  are software that that that the previous Carson get and some of them aren't [TS]

  it really is updated as often as like a computer is updated with new features a [TS]

  new capabilities in new hardware and so do you really wanna be using a six year [TS]

  old one but maybe not you know if you care about all the cool new stuff they [TS]

  keep adding I i think at least really does make a lot of sense [TS]

  and especially for a car that's this young and its development cycle for an [TS]

  industry that this young with the out the whole car industry you know you [TS]

  don't know what it's going to be like in three years you don't know what the [TS]

  market for these cars will be like in three years and how easy it will be to [TS]

  sell one you know it's or what long-term Eaton's might cost you know all those [TS]

  are still sucks unknowns that leasing makes a lot of sense yeah I agree the [TS]

  other interesting point that that underscore made and I didn't know this [TS]

  was the thing but apparently whatever flavor battery is in the Tesla it is [TS]

  understood that charging it only to about eighty or ninety percent of it [TS]

  exactly what it was [TS]

  is better for the battery then charging it all the way to a hundred percent and [TS]

  so apparently what you can do is you can say to the car you know what generally [TS]

  speaking just charged 80 percent it's out there I'm just gonna be around town [TS]

  its fine and then you can like requester or tell it to do a full max range [TS]

  charged in the instances here about to go on like a roadtrip fascinating is the [TS]

  extension of the BMW's where you have settings every possible thing like Tesla [TS]

  it's also exciting all the way down computers and electronics like they've [TS]

  taken to today BMW's sounds like everyday worries taking to like the [TS]

  things you can adjust the other cars you can adjust in the BMW but but something [TS]

  you can't just that all right and like everything up for grabs [TS]

  maybe if you want me to turn the steering also left the wheels go right [TS]

  it's probably not that one but they could probably do against its electric [TS]

  power steering [TS]

  it's ridiculous that the touch screen in center usually just what the screen off [TS]

  just visually having a 17 inch monitor in the center of the car looks [TS]

  ridiculous and I hated however it did not take long for me to start to [TS]

  appreciate what that affords you having this humongous screen inside of the car [TS]

  like having a navigation screen dad is a mammoth being able to go to pain like [TS]

  you can split in half so that the thing is mounted in portrait orientation but [TS]

  you can split it in half so you have like a top half or bottom half and did [TS]

  you wildly different things on them [TS]

  I thought the touch screen was reasonably responsive I didn't think it [TS]

  was bad I thought it was aesthetically sufficient I wouldn't say it looked [TS]

  great but it was ok my understanding is they recently did a quote unquote Iowa 7 [TS]

  update and before that it looked to really dated from what I've been told [TS]

  yes but this one i mean seemed fine I can i still can't get over how quick it [TS]

  was from any speed instant it was like getting it was like one of those linear [TS]

  induction roller coasters at any speed instant power I did briefly tried the [TS]

  autopilot really weird really really weird not bad weird but really weird [TS]

  David said that if you leave your hands off the wheel for an extended length of [TS]

  time it gets progressively more angry about that fact and I believe he said it [TS]

  will eventually pull the car over and get put on the emergency flashers [TS]

  assuming that you've liked at some sort of medical emergency or something but [TS]

  but it was very cool but very very weird and it was unbelievably cool to me to [TS]

  see even when I wasn't an autopilot mode just because of the light proximity [TS]

  awareness what was going on around me it would actually show an icon of the car [TS]

  in front of me on the dashboards not like the specific make and model of the [TS]

  car but I got representative this there is a car in front of you and it's about [TS]

  here [TS]

  similarly I see where you are in the lane and in so it kind of gives you a [TS]

  constant bird's eye view of where you are within the land which was very very [TS]

  interesting I loved it I thought it was extremely cool I won't say it utterly [TS]

  ruined my car but if I were to buy a car tomorrow and I could afford one of these [TS]

  I would absolutely do that instead of any sort of petrol gasoline car I also [TS]

  got to the point that I started to think to myself you know me instead of getting [TS]

  an error in an SUV that our model yes it does hold more it has that front trunk [TS]

  thing got her a model [TS]

  floated this idea briefly [TS]

  and she looked at me and was like not happening but I I loved it I absolutely [TS]

  loved it I thought it was extremely cool and it seems clear to me that this is [TS]

  the future but the future it's a president my neighborhood they are the [TS]

  most common rich person car but they're pretty close they're just everywhere [TS]

  it's worth I have seen a noticeable uptick in the in the in like just the [TS]

  last three months around here to like I'm guessing going although drive that [TS]

  was last year whenever that was [TS]

  I bet that help them tremendously in the Northeast I really like now I really am [TS]

  seeing them all over the place it's I just don't even know what to say it was [TS]

  just so you know it was is I've become very spoiled by my car because my car in [TS]

  this is not unique to BMW's but I do think it's you need to luxury cars it's [TS]

  just built well he has had problems yesterday almost exploded a few weeks [TS]

  back it's had its share of problems but when it's running properly which is more [TS]

  often than not it just is so well built it just feels so solid it just feels [TS]

  right in this car the Tesla Model S felt the same way I didn't miss that the [TS]

  sturdiness of it at all whereas when I tried various mazda6 which is absolutely [TS]

  great car little old now 2007 but it's a great car and I really like her car it's [TS]

  just not built the same way it's not built as sturdy as like a deal German [TS]

  boat of a car is and this is built just as sturdy I loved it the iPhone app [TS]

  definitely has a bunch of problems but the fact that you can do so much me [TS]

  iPhone app you can open the sunroof you can turn on the air conditioning you can [TS]

  tell it to charge you can see what the charge is it was incredible 11 we [TS]

  plugged it into my house it like sorta trickle charge for a little bit to come [TS]

  to decide whether or not my electricity coming out of the house was sufficient [TS]

  enough to do you like a full-bore charge and then it eventually ramped up to [TS]

  things like to answer something that I forget exactly what it was but it [TS]

  eventually wrapped itself up to like I'm going to charge myself as quickly as I [TS]

  possibly can from a traditional electrical outlet [TS]

  just everything about it was so cool and so well done and it doesn't mean it [TS]

  doesn't have problems but it was so cool and so well done and so clearly are [TS]

  nerds automobile I want I want it [TS]

  yeah I really am here to keep talking underscore in seeing what he thinks you [TS]

  know long-term and you know what they like I heard I talked to a friend in my [TS]

  neighborhood who just got one and I think he probably has similar [TS]

  sensibilities as me with this sort of thing and and and he said he loves it [TS]

  but it is a car made by tech people and it has like you know bugs and software [TS]

  updates so you have to look you know you're setting yourself up for that but [TS]

  that that aside it is really nice and it comes with the up sides of that as well [TS]

  you know if the frequent updates and adding stuff after the fact I mean my [TS]

  car has gained nothing I bought it except for some things start to work a [TS]

  lil bit worse over time but my car is not getting a single new feature since I [TS]

  bought it whereas I Tesla's get updated over the air and they get new stuff all [TS]

  the time so that's interesting and I might not always want that there might [TS]

  be some times where drives me nuts when it when it doesn't do what I want her [TS]

  when I when I wanted more conservative but I think overall it's probably a net [TS]

  win so I guess we'll see what happens I mean you know we could be looking back [TS]

  on this episode in you know three years when you have already bought one my my [TS]

  lease is about to end and I'm ranting about how much I hate all these dynamic [TS]

  software bugs and everything we looking back on it and laughing but at this [TS]

  moment I think it sounds like an OK tradeoff overall and and to get a car [TS]

  that's over all that good I think it's worth it [TS]

  one final note while thinking of it I was utterly baffled with what to do when [TS]

  we got back to the house and I parked the car the gear shift is on the right [TS]

  hand side its atomic column and that was pretty self explanatory heck it's a hell [TS]

  of a lot better than BMW automatics not the DCT is with the automatics DCT there [TS]

  believe me even weirder I mean like so ok we turn the car on a start and park [TS]

  as far as I know when to shift out of park [TS]

  I don't think there's a way to get it back into park without turning the car [TS]

  off there is on the automatic I can't speak for the DCT areas you're right [TS]

  it's the disease are totally different for some reason and it is so strong in [TS]

  the automatic our view of modern automatics are themselves incredibly [TS]

  like an intuitive and a weird and just messed up the DCT is also just as weird [TS]

  but it's all different interesting it's very strange I guess if the paddles not [TS]

  only I don't use the stick with the reverse because the stick is just so [TS]

  strange that just not worth it yet so I put the car in park that was fined and [TS]

  then I look for the ignition switch which I guess ignition in and of itself [TS]

  as a barbaric term now but archaic I should say but there wasn't one and I [TS]

  just was looking around confused and I think david has kind of enjoying my my [TS]

  being perplexed and eventually to him and said what do i do is get out in the [TS]

  car is always on effectively as long as you're sitting in the car the cars on [TS]

  ready to go to just get out and when I walk the Cardinal game cumshot itself [TS]

  off so weird so call so much the future wants it so yeah if you are someone who [TS]

  is interesting in advertising on the axle tech podcast otherwise known as the [TS]

  Casey by a Tesla fund please reach out to anyone of us send as many miles as [TS]

  you buy because I would like to have a test yes we're now going to have six [TS]

  sponsors per episode battle a West Esplanade buying ads they don't they [TS]

  don't need to do they do need to so we are moving to six to twelve ads per [TS]

  episode [TS]

  what we're trying to do the math on what we're gonna get work on that is [TS]

  testimony to get meet you still wouldn't buy one you would still talk yourself [TS]

  out of it I don't have the house for a don't have the space for and I don't [TS]

  have to talk myself [TS]

  i dont i dont have a burning desire for a test like I had enough money for [TS]

  testing I would definitely be shopping for different cars you guys already had [TS]

  fancy BMW got it out of your system I haven't given me enough money for Marcus [TS]

  fancy test I would chop different car but what would you get instead for say [TS]

  you know ninety grandeur ever these and I would I would look at all the better [TS]

  to look at Mistys BMW Audi wouldn't look at Jaguar sorry you know how to get [TS]

  accurate tribes see what's out there would you know that's what I would [TS]

  consider before that I'm not ready to have weird car experiments like you guys [TS]

  will but the seventh model test level you know just like the iPhone when they [TS]

  come up to six or seven tests alone probably right for me [TS]